Everything Changes But You
Posted on
December 10, 2023 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Less than six months passed between these two comments.
And the weird thing is that the strategy in both cases was/is the exact same. Huh.
I think that if Comfy Slippers Pete is criticising the SNP leadership, Humza really is toast.
You know it’s coming up for election time when idiots like this start talking about independence.
Age-related memory loss…
@ Pacman 8.31pm
That’s a good point which I hadn’t thought of! I gather he’s been pissing off his activists since he got a decent majority in 2019, so we’ll see how that works out for him.
Dementia?
Wish my pension away. Naw.
Pillock
Nothing like an approaching election to help focus the mind eh? Pathetic.
Huh?
He’s referring to the special convention in Dundee? The one where he appeared onstage for about two minutes, blabbered some boring shite about how great it all was, then fucked off again as fast as he could?
That one?
Petered Out!
It will probably be more comforting for Cosy Feet Pete to turn his mind to a topic other than Operation Branchform. I wonder if he ever got a ride in the missing Jaguar.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-investigating-missing-snp-donations-31637216
Comfy slippers has spent a good twenty years living it up in London. He knows an election is coming. Yet again, he will pretend to be the champion of Scottish independence.
Once re-elected, and safely back in London for another five years, he’ll forget about it all over again, and get back to his high fallutin life in England.
Aye, its, a grand old life in old London toon for comfy Pete, when you are paid over 90k per year to do SFA, given a free second house, subsidised meals, plus expenses, plus free flights to/from your ‘holiday home’ in Scotland.
Only a mug would want to see him re-elected. People like him are the EXACT reason Scotland has been under English subjugation and unwanted, undemocratic English rule for over three hundred years. Off they go to London, with big promises, then they get there and start to enjoy the perks a bit too much, start living the high life then spend decades making excuses about WHY they play along with England’s silly rules, and do nothing to get our freedom.
..Or maybe the SNP slogan this election will be ‘this time we really, really, genuinely, truthfully, seriously promise to push for independence. Honest!’
@ AnneDon
There are too many WGD types who will turn up and vote for the SNP only because they will never vote for a unionist party.
As well as that, the likes of Pension Pete knows the ropes like the back of his hand on how to get the ones who are wavering out to vote for the SNP one more time.
Quite a change of tactic though for him to attack the policies that he had so enthusiastically endorsed not that long ago but I guess there are enough who’s head buttons up at the back.
Weak Pishart – the gift that keeps on giving.
O/T
While I don’t want to comment on the current Middle East conflict, I had come across this article where the Israeli Minister of Defence Yoav Gallant commented on British military support.
https://archive.is/JRfUJ
I know it was obvious that this is happening but good to hear it straight from the horses mouth.
@ Pacman: are you forgetting that Wishart had a majority of only 19 [or so] on one occasion not so long ago, and that was courtesy of the work done by activists who no longer support the SNP.
So it is a very shoogly peg that his jaiket is on.
If you’re one of that great number who no longer know who to vote for, voting SNP is unlikely to change anything. Better to vote for none of them, rather than give the impression that you still have faith left in any of them. By means of a conscious electoral-boycott, that point is easily made, and may well prove to be the very kick-up-the-arse that the Scottish political class so badly need. Given that we’ll get the pro-union party that English voters decide we’re going to get, what’s so awful about taking imaginative, political action on our own account?
@ sarah.
I didn’t realise his position was so precarious. His outburst borne of desperation?
Test post to see if this submits, as there is clearly an issue with posting on this site now.
If you hover over the line of information below each post that actually shows, you can see the numbers rise way out of sync with the number of posts that actually submit properly.
There’s basically more posts been submitted (but not showing) btl on this new article than there are showing…
There’s currently 14 posts actually showing btl as I submit this. A couple of posts made on the old thread account for a small rise. But that still means nearly 20 posts are missing in the 33 post difference between.
First post is AnneDon’s at 8.31 pm
https://wingsoverscotland.com/everything-changes-but-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2809361
Current last post of sarah’s at 9.52 pm
https://wingsoverscotland.com/everything-changes-but-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2809394
@ PacMan: 21 was PW’s majority in the 2017 election.
There’s definitely hope that he will be dumped next year.
Completely O/T,
I’ve sent in a FOI request to Police Scotland about the costs of Operation Branchform, to date. I’ve had an email acknowledgement, and they say 20 working days to process it. So by around mid January. Having worked with the Police, Home Office and OGD down the years, there’s a civil service understanding as to how much resource is put into investigation. The public target figure being £600k, in this case.
I don’t expect much back, beyond obfuscatory text and maybe even some black oblong redactions. ie the bare minimum. But the good Rev Stu’s got my email addy, and I’m happy to share with him whatever does come back.
Aw naw the westminster band will hiv tae look fur a new keyboard player if comfy Slippers loses his seat ( Cmon the electors vote this fucker OOT .
@ronald anderson (10.43) –
I don’t rouse myself to attend many events these days but I would use my bus pass to plan a trip to Perth to witness that worthless prick being hoofed.
Hope you are well there faither.
😉
Meanwhile in 2014
https://tiny.cc/ofjhvz
What happened?
Just seeing Pete reminds me of who and what would survive a nuclear war. Its time for him to get the cringe worthy band back together again. He she never have left the Wurzels .
@Pacman
Yes, his majority collapsed in 2017, and he was all over his activists.
As soon a it went up again in 2019, he stopped giving any f*cks about them.
With a slightly higher IQ, Wishart could rise to the lofty ranks of intellectual lightweight. He’s viewed with contempt by his colleagues, recognised as a sycophantic dimwit who will go out as standard bearer for policies he doesn’t understand, blissfully unaware of the implications or consequences of the proposed legislation. He is the archetypal drone from Sector 7G, a namedropping former stylophone practitioner, so loathed by his former bandmates that he wasn’t invited to perform at their final concert, even though he was in attendance taking the customary tedious selfies. History would condemn his inaction, obsequious behaviour and fondness for the fineries of Westminster, but in 20 years’ time, no-one will remember he existed
Mia,
I have begun the list of material headings I have researched over the past five years on previous thread,
I will give more details with a bit more time,
However I hope this will be of aid to yourself in pointing you in the directional path of information out there, to begin with.
SNP seem to to use Pete as a paperboy he delivers all the news that the SNP wants to spin, next week it’ll be something different.
What amazes me is how every single one of these SNP MP’s, SNP MSP’s and their Councillors haven’t donated a single penny to the party.
Wishart is just like all the other charlatans; banking on the presumption that most voters simply don’t engage with politics in between elections, and thus don’t have a firm grasp of an MP or MSP’s notorious political activity in between times.
The tragedy is, a lot of the time that’s true. Most people aren’t political anoraks. The whole Transgender Calamity has only achieved the prominence it has by sailing under the radar of the general public, with its backers treating Independence like a bait and switch fairground swindle. That scam only works when the voting public is disengaged and ill informed; cue the SNP’s signature redactions and un-minuted meetings. The electorate voted for Independence, but what they got was idiot Sturgeon’s freak show and her disgusting Salmond conspiracy instead.
For us; those genuine Independence supporters who actually do keep abreast of their shenanigans, these chancers have nothing but contempt. The last thing they want is someone to prick their conscience about all the lies and promises they made to win our trust at the last election.
Sturgeon, Wishart, Yousaf, typically those with “black” in their name, Blackford, Blackman, Black etc, – they’re all the fkg same. Rotten wormy apples in the same barrel.
We’ve realised too late that they’re just parasites milking all our aspirations, but at least the realisation is taking root at last. The abiding tragedy is the time and plethora of opportunities for Scotland’s salvation which these self serving tossers have squandered for the best part of a decade. May they all burn in Hell.
And for our illustrious voting public? Scammed by Better Together in 2014, scammed by Sturgeon for a decade beyond. Ok, we can put some disillusion down to that, but Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on all of us.
Aye. Shame on all of us just about sums it up. But hey, if you don’t like being fleeced by greedy tossers, it’s about time y’all started paying fkg attention or we’ll see Scotland taken to the cleaners yet again.
Get your name on the Liberation.scot list.
“
AnneDon says:
10 December, 2023 at 8:38 pm
@ Pacman 8.31pm
That’s a good point which I hadn’t thought of! I gather he’s been pissing off his activists since he got a decent majority in 2019, so we’ll see how that works out for him”
As one of them I can absolutely confirm that not only did he piss off his activists they have all resigned. All he has left are the blue haired Twitler Youth who are not prepared to put in the hours and miles required and are more interested in which pronouns to use.
I would say that Pension Pete will resign before the GE but his ego will not allow him to.
No matter, the good people of North Perthshire will kick him out.
I’d rather put my money into Bernie Madoff investment funds before I ever voted for this fraud.
Seriously, does no one mind o Wishart saying this term would be his last? Did I dream it?
His change of mind offers us a delicious moment when he gets his greedy wee backside drop kicked into touch at the next GE though.
Honestly cannot wait.
Dumpling Pishart is either at your feet or at your throat depending on how imperiled he feels his cushy number is.
Today Porky Pete is telling voters what he thinks they want to hear, the truth. He is trying to position himself as someone within the party who is ‘speaking out’ and therefore should he should be ‘saved’ from the impending electoral massacre.
If it works and he is reelected you can be 100% certain he will instantly return to the usual sneering arrogant prick that he is.
Fuck him and fuck the Sturgeon SNP because it’s like she never left.
At long last he is now showing concern, pity its about his and only his potential lordship/comfy slippers to continue
So Wishart says he…. ” Now encouraged that the right strategy is being worked up”
What an admission. To tell us now that the right strategy wasn’t being pursued before, after all these wasted years is really something. What a freeloading prick to actually tell us he knew that.
But the obvious we knew. And now Humza he says its great that the right strategy is….” being worked up”
Someone out to work it up this absolute plonker.
Inevitably «the reckoning».
A matter only of expert timing.
If only he had been given the speaker of the house of commons job he put in for.
Pete the twat. Enjoy killing wildlife, do you?
Naw. I just enjoy free whisky swilling.
You’re a trumped up Cassio player and not a good one at that. Go be a lord, it’s what you dream about. You’re toast.
The lesson Pete Wishart / SNP has taught us, is this:
Don’t judge politicians by the promises made, and policies for the future, but by their actions now and in the past.
Using that methodology:
What has Pete Wishart DONE for Scottish independence?
Ah cannae think of anything positive, can youse?
To be fair to all of them, plan A (seek agreement on a democratic vote) was probably still good right up until the excuse for now being not the time became an apparent preference for Israel to be run by genocide.
Bit cheeky to have blamed any of the self made hell on all of US though
https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1731743850744439261?t=E13H_GNiezXHDZ1ZS92jAQ&s=19
Sorry, meant to say plan A/ now is not the time, when being fair to ALl of them
It’s taken me about 45 years to realise that Scotland is afflicted with a particularly stupid and dense population who are easily conned by self serving charlatans like wishart. Sadly I don’t see anything changing soon.
Time for boots not baffies.
@PacMan 9:50
I second your apology for going O/T and secondly apologise to any reader enjoying a late breakfast.
In the realm of shared “values”, I experience visceral anger and disgust at the gang rape, mutilation, torture and murder of daft young dancing lassies, simply because they happen to be defenceless, daft, young, dancing lassies.
Say what you like about Shapps, but he’s on the same page as me with this one.
I’m guessing I’m not the only Sovereign Scot in Scotland who is with Shapps on this.
I’m not going to presume about how women reading here might feel, or how the fathers of daft young teenage daughters may feel. But maybes if they want to avoid the perception that Wings BTL is some kind of a haven for justifiers of insensate violence against young women, they need to speak up too.
My enduring memory of Cozyfeet is a photo I saw a couple of years ago of him with John Swinney and Alistair Jack enjoying a drink after a days shooting on Alistair Jack’s estate. He obviously wants that lifestyle to continue.
I can’t use the word here that I would normally apply to people like him and Swinney.
FFS, should prolly have said ALL of us in uppercase too. what a roaster, some mothers do ‘ave ’em, shouldn’t swear, etc, but don’t let the bastards get you down – ever.
Sorry mum!
Gord, it takes dumb to a whole new level when you consider the results of 2014. Even now after all that has been thrown at us since the level of supposive support for independence should be a lot higher.
That bastard Wishart.
The unionist shite on the heel of Scotland’s shoe.
Gord 9.53am, ‘Scotland is afflicted with a particularly stupid and dense population’
Sadly, you got that right in one Gord, which is why i no longer live there.
@ John H at 10:36 am
Re. Shooting Estate. I may be wrong but think you are actually recalling this which is a little different.
https://archive.is/tRnId
I understand there is a significant boundary change to the constituency Pete “represents”, so unfortunately some folk will be denied the opportunity to not vote for him.
In other news, I see some unelected wee English tory jobby, who calls himself a ‘lord’, and who has NO DEMOCRATIC MANDATE anywhere (not even in England), is trying to dictate what democratically elected Scottish government ministers can or cannot do, and who he will ‘allow‘ them to speak to.
If I were Humza, I would tell the unelected wee English tory jobby, who calls himself ‘lord’ Cameron, to get elected in Scotland (aye,right!) first, before mouthing such pig-ignorant sh*te.
Are you an Unelected English Tory? then STFU about Scotland.
England should mind its own damn business, and stop interfering in Scotland. If anybody needs reminding, THIS is why we need independence, and an end to unwanted, undemocratic colonial English rule.
Colin Alexander at 0921am,
In nswer to your question, nope.
I have long thought Weak Pishfart was the most-likely SNP politician to take ermine on leaving either of the elected parliaments.
He just might take Honest John with him to the Upper Chamber, so as not to feel lonely.
The SNP will then try to spin it that, they need to have repreentatives in there if they are to properly fight for Independence. Aye Right!!!
Bobbyp says:
11 December, 2023 at 11:16 am
Gord 9.53am, ‘Scotland is afflicted with a particularly stupid and dense population’
Sadly, you got that right in one Gord, which is why i no longer live there.
That brings to mind a conversation I had at school with a classmate from South Africa who sincerely believed the black population were too thick to be educated. He couldn’t understand it’s a QED thing. Provide no education, and the people remain uneducated. Go figure… If you want an informed and intelligent population, then perhaps try educating them.
Scotland is slightly different however, because education is the answer to ignorance, but not necessarily the answer to indoctrination. We don’t have empty heads needing to be filled as such, we have our heads already filled from cradle to grave with crap and disinformation designed to consolidate the corrupt and crumbling United Kingdom.
This is not a failure of education, but a deliberate and calculated perversion of it.
In politics, BANALITY, banality, everywhere banality.
«I’m a celebrity» awaits.
“we have our heads already filled from cradle to grave with crap and disinformation designed to consolidate the corrupt and crumbling United Kingdom.”
Nobody more complicit in that than our wonderful Yoon MSM; from the state broadcaster, the Brit-Nat Brainwashing Channel, all the way down to the Aberdeen Pish & Jobbers.
All experts in the application of the ‘Mushroom Principle’ where Scotland’s people are concerned.
Dan at 11.45am.
I don’t think that’s the same picture that I meant Dan. But it’s the same idea. He’s very blatant about his Tory friends.
Robert Louis, at 11:54 am,
Does the irony of having a French name not strike you when having a go for being English at someone called Cameron?
In any case, Cameron’s right under the law. There’s no competence for Humza to try to conduct foreign affairs.
I wish JM would put up some links with his drivel.
On the plus side, he/she does keep us well informed on what the Israelis, BBC and the Daily Mail think, without having to visit those organs.
“In any case, Cameron’s right under the law. There’s no competence for Humza to try to conduct foreign affairs.”
There’s no competence in anything Humbug Yousless does, except cocking up anything/everything he’s involved in.
Besides, if Alister ‘Union’ Jack swung by Pennsylvania Avenue on Tartan Day without someone from the FCDO in tow I doubt Cameron would bat an eyelid.
O/t but with regard to men who have a recorded history of violence towards women no longer being housed in the female prison estate the details are no longer going to be made public to protect the identities of the men in question who are still to sent to womens prisons.
This follows a template of census findings no longer being made public and crime statistics per demographic being hidden as per course with a number of Western countries.
@ Dickie Tea & AnneDon
Thanks for the insight.
I’ve never been involved in any political party but I could imagine that quite a few people would have voted for SNP in that constituency and others not for the sitting elected representative but out of empathy for all the genuine, hard working activists who for instance go round chapping on the doors and handing out leaflets.
Now that Pension Pete has no one to go round the community advocating to vote for him then he could soon truly be out in his ear?
That every Scots politician who has ever been elected has sworn fealty to the UK head of state and accepted sovereignty of UK Parliament has no helped educate Scots that it is Scots who are in fact sovereign.
It also didn’t help that the SNP, for the last 25 years has pretended / lied (take your pick) that Holyrood is the reconvened Parliament of Scotland and that the Scot Govt is Scotland’s government. When it it’s power comes from WM and it upholds (English) Crown in WM “sovereignty”.
I wish JM would put up some links with his drivel.
On the plus side, he/she does keep us well informed on what the Isntraelis, BBC and the Daily Mail think, without having to visit those organs.
Without proof it is just propaganda
https://twitter.com/propandco/status/1731157621229396289
@Robert Louis says:11 December, 2023 at 11:54 am
If I were Humza, I would tell the unelected wee English tory jobby
Ah Bob, it fair warms the cockles of my heart to see a proud, freedom-loving, Scottish patriot like yourself calling for the likes of pretendy FM Humza Yousaf to step up and fight your battles for you.
But you do need to choose your ground a bit more carefully. HY can’t and won’t fight on the unelected charge – he has a number of fundamental weaknesses there too.
TBQH, astonished you haven’t noticed for yourself.
Maybes all you see is the badge, eh? And how’s that working out?
@Johnlmfao says:11 December, 2023 at 1:31 pm
Without proof it is just propaganda
And there you have the advantage of me, Lmfao.
You have picked your side. I try to restore a little balance, some neutrality, some acceptance that both belligerents have some right on their side, just as both sides have some wrong to account for too.
But I’m not going to stoop to your level of denying things we all know are happening or have already happened. Seriously, Lmfao, you’ll deny what happened just to score brownie points on here? WTAF is wrong with you?
It’s defo innarestin though, in the realpolitik situation we have, where both belligerents have sworn on their religions to annihilate the other, that it’s me calling for a negotiated cease fire that gets the pelters.
For those like Lmfao still rooting for total victory for their side, they have yet to notice that in a fight to the finish situation, it’s their side that is on course for the annihilation.
But dinna fash, Lmfao, I’ll continue to call for a negotiated cease fire, cos it’s the right thing to do. If it comes off, you won’t ever have to acknowledge I was right all along.
He’s a walking contradiction. Pension Pete’s weathervane spun off it’s axis a long time ago.
Why don’t we all give him another five years on the shooting estate to try find it?
Aye, right. Lol!
Bye,bye, Slipper man. Your services are surplus to requirement.
Life is coming at ye fast.
‘Scotland is afflicted with a particularly stupid and dense population’
Not everyone thinks that – just the stuoid ones.
Panelbase poll 2022.
Based on 1017 Scots from 16 years-up, with fieldwork on 5-7 October 2022, those likely to vote, when asked:
“If the Scottish Government put a Wellbeing approach at the heart of its economic plans for independence (a plan that recognised that quality of life, equality, fairness, sustainability, happiness, and health are all outcomes that should be given equal weight to economic growth), whilst committing to increase the state pension from £141.85 to £225.00 per week in an independent Scotland – how would you vote in a Scottish independence referendum?”
61% said Yes. This is the breakdown. Only women over 55 recorded a majority for No (52%) while 72% of younger men (16-34) and 83% of younger women, said Yes.
Among the middle-aged (35-54), 55% of men and an equally impressive 67% of women said Yes.
Very interesting comment Gord.
My question would be is the Scottish population more dense than any other nation or are our con artists just extra extremely clever with a vested interest in conning us?
@sam says:11 December, 2023 at 2:15 pm
Not everyone thinks that – just the stuoid ones
Would a stuoid one be one too stupid to spell “stupid”?
Not only are you repeating your posts, Sam, you still haven’t grasped that voting yourself free stuff, including money, may actually be the stupid course of action.
Stopping to ask where the money will come from, and if it can be found, who is going to be fleeced for it, can be the smart move.
Coincidentally, somebody posted a wee link to an article just yesterday that was pointing out ScotGov’s folly in awarding giveaways to a narrow segment of society, and then having to slash services to all to fund them.
Stay out of government, Sam, pretty please, till the penny drops for you.
Disgusting John Main.
At least you appear to be fudging your calls for g3nocide at last.
I’ll take that as a good omen.
Still building imaginary visions of what I think tho’.
Don’t discuss subjects you haven’t researched.
Pick up a book sometime.
https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/evidence-hamas-rape-israeli-women/
I’m guessing you mean stupid & not stuoid?
When I initially read the word stuoid it I thought you were referring to a new name for us Vile Cybernats!
Stuoids! :-). I like it!
Vile Stuoids!
Put me down as a ‘Stuoid’
Better a ‘Stuoid’ than a ‘Gingerdugoid’ for example. Now if you are looking for dense …………
Rev wrote: “And the weird thing is that the strategy in both cases was/is the exact same.”
Nothing weird about that because it’s Wishart you’re talking about here. More faces than a town clock and every bit as noisy. Absolute self-serving cretinous individual.
Sam,
are you surprised that people vote for free money?
John Main makes a similar point above. So a question to you is who is paying for this free money? Don’t worry if you haven’t an immediate answer: there hasn’t been a politician, of any party, in the last 120 years who’s been able to answer it.
It would be really good if Humza had another meeting overseas and turned up with duck tape over his mouth and hands tied with wire ties and a sign round his neck saying no democracy in britain.
I could even start to think he was serious about independence.
By doing nothing they accept Westminster’s right to control them
ASA @12:53
Not convinced.
Consider the question “does/ will the situation in Gaza impact on morale in the shipyards, especially where contracts with western nations are concerned”
Depending on the answer the foreign office would be asked for a follow up investigation and advice via the usual channels.
This intervention is clearly back to front though and has, at best, removed any need to involve the Scottish office in future correspondence on the matter.
Accordingly one great complication arising, given last week’s decision on ownership of material otherwise subject to release under foi, might be the urgent discovery of everything the foreign office holds on Turkey to justify it’s evident concern.
A second, presumably, would be the need for a new Scotgov department with the necessary security clearance, competence, integrity, infrastructure and institutional loyalty (Scotland first, Commonwealth/ US/ Europe, Hong Kong second, Scandinavia and other developing countries third, etc?) to receive and handle the unredacted data provided.
Even more controversial perhaps is the thought that, for all millitary intelligence takes the flak for its own efforts, as well any attributed to it by enthusiastic amateurs, professional propagandists, and even automated bots, it’s their rank and file along with unapologetically critical thinkers like John Main, that risk being among the best qualified to run such a department (yikes!) at least during the early years when discretion over whatever we’ve gotten up to as a united kingdom will be at a premium so as not to destabilise each other too much by default!
YOUSAF has the temerity to chat with Erdogan and the FO goes ape about Scots talking to foreigners without a chaperone.
Interesting know-your-place situation developing.
Will the SNP have the chutzpah to give London the middle digit?
FFS I think I’d better stop reading this thread. I don’t want to bombard Stu with angry posts.
Surely the con is in the term free money
What is this free money you are referring to.
What do we get for free? Do we get the services of folk in the military for free for example?
Would their pensions be classed as ‘free money’?
Just thought I would ask you that one since you are ex-army and possibly getting ‘free money’ for doing nothing.
Politicians don’t want to answer because they want you to think they are giving you the money out of their own pocket.
It is trite to consider the Scottish government putting quality of life, equality, fairness, sustainability, happiness, and health alongside the economy, while also boosting pension levels, when everything they touch turns to shite.
Health, education, refining, shipbuilding, transport, energy prices, taxation levels, social services are all plummeting in the wrong direction.
They might as well have added in better weather, more sex, fluffier kittens, tastier food, comfier slippers. A nice thought to a throwaway survey question, but nothing that will survive serious scrutiny.
@Shug says:11 December, 2023 at 3:38 pm
and a sign round his neck saying no democracy in britain
So, so right, Shug. A flawed and fraudulent process, that let approximately 26,000 anonymous individuals choose HY as SNP leader, and hence Scottish First Minister.
Heck, we have absolutely no idea if any of that 26,000 are Scots or even live in Scotland
By doing nothing they accept Westminster’s right to control them
So, so right again, Shug. Not a fecking peep from our nation of so-called proud, patriotic nationalists, as the out-sourced, fraudulently elected “leader” dons the mantle of Wallace and King Robert and jets off to shower our money on his internationalist pet peeves.
Haud oan though, Shug. This is what you were complaining about, right?
Or are you just another one who tribally won’t look past the badge?
Ian Smith
A colony isn’t supposed to be successful.
Holyrood is stuffed with 7,000 + English serving civil servants working against Scotland.
Why do you think fck all works? The SNP? Lol
That doesn’t explain the various departments, whose job it is to catch shite, is missing in action.
Also worth remembering the SNP & independence are two different things.
Which part of his name do you consider French? The Robert or the Louis?
Louis maybe pronounced Lewis. You know after the Isle of Lewis.
Lots of people in Scotland call their children after Scottish islands. Islay is a popular one both from men and women. (Islay: island in Western Isles.). Isla popular for women although maybe much less so now.
Robert pretty international.
The thing about the internet is you can call yourself what every you want.
@Ian Smith says:11 December, 2023 at 3:52 pm
With a nod to the late, great Terry Pratchett, I suggested on the last occasion Sam posted his wish list that a daily hard boiled egg on top would swing the deal for me.
No reply so far … C’moan, its just an egg.
TURABDIN
Aye, Scotland can speak to wtf they like.
The UK has zero control over Scotland.
& No. Dumbza will moan & then sit down as we’ve become accustomed to…
Main
**A flawed and fraudulent process, that let approximately 26,000 anonymous individuals choose HY as SNP leader, and hence Scottish First Minister.**
That’s the WM voting system you voted to keep. Congratulate yourself.
26,000 is more than what Sunak received.
He is now like the little worm squirming on a pin.
Doesn’t matter what he says….no one believes him.
His world is collapsing………love it.
@Johnlmao says:11 December, 2023 at 2:38 pm
Pick up a book sometime
Thanks, Johnlmao, a personal recommendation is worth a lot.
Good read is it? Lots of pics? Unputdownable perhaps, to a certain niche audience? Gone viral on the dark web maybes?
No, no, don’t tell us the arc of the storyline, or how it all ends. Could be minors reading on here. Has to be some decent adults too, or we’re all fecked.
I just wish he would stop telling folk he’s fae the toon it’s embarrassing. Anyhoo I’m in highland Perthshire now and he aint getting my vote I just hope Alba or ISP stand a candidate or its a wasted slip again.
VIVA LA MUERTE….or When it’s Gone, it’s Gone.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/12/05/is-gen-z-turning-against-western-civilisation/
Born in the MidEast and valuing «classic» Western civilization, warts included.
TURABDIN says on 11 December 2023 at 3:48 pm: “YOUSAF has the temerity to chat with Erdogan and the FO goes ape about Scots talking to foreigners without a chaperone. Interesting know-your-place situation developing. Will the SNP have the chutzpah to give London the middle digit?”
In a word? NO! Clueless cowardly lickspittles, the lot of them. Yousaf is a spineless cretin and a clueless embarrassment. It’s a very sad state of affairs, within the indy movement, when only one man (Salmond) is seen as capable and formidable.
The current SNP are nothing but self-serving sell-outs, without exception. And until they become far more aggressive in their pursuit of indy i will always consider them to be self-serving sell-outs. I don’t vote for self-serving meek and compliant clueless cowards.
@Geri says:11 December, 2023 at 4:13 pm
Aye, Scotland can speak to wtf they like
And what do you think the listeners see, hear and think when HY turns up saying “Hello, I speak for Scotland”?
Breaking news, Geri, there’s ane Sovereign Scot who repudiates the right of HY to speak for his country and nation, on the grounds of the flawed, fraudulent and fundamentally undemocratic stitch up that made him FM and ludicrous heir to the tradition of Wallace and the rest.
Me.
But you fill your boots, swear your oath of allegiance, follow him forever, whatever, if that’s what is most important to your tribal sense of belonging.
You’d do exactly the same if they pinned the badge on a dead sheep.
The benefits of reducing health inequalities (measured by how long you live and also live free from disability) are economic as well as social.The cost of health inequalities can be measured in both human terms, lost years of life and active life; and in economic terms, the cost to the economy of additional illness. If everyone in England had the same death rates as the most advantaged, people who are currently dying prematurely as a result of health inequalities would, in total, have enjoyed between 1.3 and 2.5 million extra years of life. They would, in addition, have had a further 2.8 million years free of limiting illness or disability. It is estimated that this illness accounts for productivity losses of £31-33 billion per year, lost taxes and higher welfare payments in the range of £20-32 billion per year and
additional NHS healthcare costs well in excess of £5.5 billion per year. If no
action is taken, the cost of treating the various illnesses that result from inequalities in obesity alone will rise from £2 billion per year to £5 billion per year in 2025.
Main
Suck it up, sunshine. Sunak elected by a handful of mates in a dark back room deal in the bowels of Dowdy Street, doesn’t speak for Scotland either.
On the bright side – yet more rigged Tory elections are coming now that half the electorate will be missing.
You must be so proud of yourself voting to keep the rigged WM system. Now you wanna cry Dumbza used it to his full advantage lol
Main
Btw, I didn’t vote SNP to keep the system. I voted to change it. Something you yoons continually fail to grasp.
It’s evidenced in the Nordic countries.
People are happier, healthier & have a better standard of living.
The Tories are the Nazis. Work to you drop with a diet of breadcrumbs. Soon they’ll have pensioners out in the fields & weans back down the mines.
They’ve only the NHS left to sell.
We’d a chance to get off that road in 2014.
rUK fcked it. How thick are they? Moving to vote for the same shite, different scenery.
Up next is NHS & pensions. Delicious for the old timers wedded to yoons lol
A Britnat/Unionist staging post in Scotland to close, now lets hope Queen Elizabeth House in Edinburgh, and Kentigern House in Glasgow both London staging posts in Scotland close as well.
“DAVID Cameron’s Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (FCDO) is to leave its East Kilbride base – despite officials having been working on plans for a new office in the area.
The Labour-led South Lanarkshire Council has been left “astounded” by the news after learning about it through a trade magazine, The Herald reports.
Leader Joe Fagan is working to arrange a meeting with officials at the governmental department in response to the development.
It comes just two years after 500 Foreign Office jobs were moved to the East Kilbride base, with the department saying it would have 1500 workers there by 2025.
The Abercrombie House office, which is now home to 1000 staff, was previously the home of the Department for International Development prior to its integration into the Foreign Office.
Speaking to The Herald, Councillor Fagan said: “I am frankly astounded by the announcement on the FCDO – both the decision itself and the way it has been made.”
On David Cameron the unelected Lord was complaining that Yousaf met with Turkish president Erdogan without an FCO official present. Cameron has threatened to chuck out Scottish sections of UK embassies because this.
However it had been revealed that these rooms in UK embassies that represent Scotland abroad are staffed with die-hard unionists.
Great posting, Geri.
That calculation above is for England.
Scotland had a review of health inequalities that conclude 40% of its health budget was avoidable by reducing health inequalities. That does not take account of money to be had by greater tax update and saved from welfare payments.
Reducing health inequalities requires the redistribution of wealth, power and income. To do that effectively means having control of the economy and welfare as well as employment law. We’re not going to get that without independence.
What the zoomers on here don’t want is any reduction in health inequalities.
‘SNP leader Humza Yousaf and David Cameron have been rowing about Humza’s recent meeting with Erdogan at COP28, which failed to include an FCDO official and therefore broke protocol. That’s because the Scottish government isn’t authorised to conduct foreign policy – even on Humza’s pointless trips to Brussels to “prepare the ground” for rejoining the EU, Foreign Office diplomats have to be present. That doesn’t stop the SNP spaffing cash on glory projects abroad…
The Scottish Government is currently financing nine “Scottish International Offices” to run as sham embassies abroad. Spend on the offices has risen from £7.6 million in 2019/20 to £9.1 million this year with ScotGov even openening a brand new “Scotland House” in Copenhagen. All while Scottish public service budgets are cut by the SNP…
On top of that the SNP spends £10 million annually on an “International Development Fund”, which operates programmes in Malawi, Rwanda, Zambia, and Pakistan. That isn’t the end of the SNP’s foreign affairs posturing – why does the SNP need a “Head of Trade Policy” when the Scottish Government has no trade responsibilities whatsoever?
Cameron has threated to withdraw FCDO support from Scotland for further meetings, which got a petulant response from Yousaf. He today complained that “for Lord Cameron, an unelected lord, to decide what the elected government of Scotland can do internationally I think is unacceptable and to threaten to curtail our international engagement is just petty“. Ignoring the basic principles of devolved government…’
http://order-order.com/2023/12/11/snp-spending-millions-on-pointless-foreign-policy/
Breeks says “This is not a failure of education, but a deliberate and calculated perversion of it.”
And the same people who should have been fighting AGAINST this educational perversion are STILL doing nothing about it, OUR SO CALLED POLITICIANS , as Colin Alexander has been saying on Wings for years every last one of them swears loyalty and fealty to WM sovereignty and the monarchy, not one of them has the balls to DEFY the establishment protocols , as Xaracen highlights daily not one of them DEMANDS equality or parity for Scotland , not one of them highlights the total ignomy of the union , not one of them vociferously EXPOSES the blatant lie of a fake union of equals
Even now the ALBA party are talking about the grandiose gesture of a DRAFT bill for a referendum to ask Scots????? if they THINK HR has the RIGHT to hold a referendum, WTAF talk about being servants, as long as politicians work within the rules laid down by oor maisters Scotland will remain shackled
Even if they held a referendum tae find oot if we can hive a referendum we will still be fucked because Salmond still insists oor maisters can hive a vote under the franchise
The joke of the Devolution Era. Humza talking about the lack of transparency in the Michelle Mone case. The National Crime Agency are investigating Mones hubbies Company and the UK Government are suing for most of the 200 million back because of defective PPE. Enter Humza, at least minutes are available of Mones meetings. Gaffe prone Humza doesn’t realise transparency begins at home. Operation Branchform Humza have you forgotten about it?. I am expecting multiple charges (24) against more than 6 people. I noticed Michelle Mone has lost a lot of weight, probably won’t need ultra bras etc anymore. A fraud of multi million pounds loses pounds on the chest and waist line. You couldn’t make it up.
@Ian Smith
“Health, education, refining, shipbuilding, transport, energy prices, taxation levels, social services are all plummeting in the wrong direction.”
Just a few problems with this sharp analysis.
Research finds little difference in the performance of the Scottish health service compared with England’s.If Scotland’s health service is shite then so is England’s.Perhaps decades of underfunding has something to do with it.
Scotland’s funding is based on population not on need. Based on need Scotland, because of demography, should be getting more.
On education, PISA results need to be taken in context. While Scotland picks a wide range of students across the board to get a representative sample, the evidence is that England picks from a very much smaller group which includes the best performing.
Also, Scottish schools tend to select PISA students from S2 classes. Most students will be 14 rather than the 15 years more widely chosen.
OECD did research into Scottish schools performance.
“According to PISA, the impact of students’ socio-economic status on their performance in reading, maths and science is among the lowest across OECD countries. At the same time, there is a higher proportion of resilient students (students from disadvantaged backgrounds who perform at high levels). Scottish data show an improvement in the performance of disadvantaged students in SCQF Levels 4, 5 and 6, with lower performance for those living in small towns in relation to rural areas.”
“Scottish students have been among the top performers in global competences, which measure their capacity to interpret worldviews, to engage effectively in interactions with people from different cultures, and to act for collective well-being and sustainable development. In addition, there has been an increase to 95% in the positive destinations of those leaving schools in 2019 (considered in Scotland in relation to higher and further education, employment and other positive destinations).”
Scottish government has no control over energy prices.
Scottish government has very little control over taxation.
That is not to say that the present Scottish government is particularly competent.
As the Chief Scientific Advisor during the Covid pandemic called Rishi Sunak Doctor Death, Sunak at the Covid Inquiry today did a Sturgeon and said he couldn’t recollect when asked twenty different questions on his actions during the pandemic.
Sunak further copied Sturgeon/Sir Jason Leitch, and failed to provide ANY of his WhatsApp messages, claiming that they had all been lost. Remarkably Sunak said that his virus spreading Eat out To Help Out was the right thing to do even though it helped spread the virus and inevitably led to more deaths from Covid.
Also Sunak, who normally prides himself on being a details man, repeatedly said he could not remember key meetings, emails and conversations, like Sturgeon, Sunak developed a strange case of amnesia.
Its claimed and probably rightly so that Sunak’s Eat Out To Help Out scheme put lives at risk and cost lives, in effect the scheme put the economy before human lives.
Chief Medical Officer in England Sir Chris Witty WASN’T consulted on Sunak’s Eat Out To Help Out Scheme before it was launched. While Sir Patrick Vallance, who was chief scientific adviser, last month told the inquiry it was “highly likely” to have fuelled deaths.
Even Boris Johnson described the Treasury under his (Sunak’s) leadership the “pro-death squad”
Just like the Scottish Covid Inquiry there appears to be absolutely no accountability and no one has been sacked and no one will face prison time.
So a medial supplies company with links to Lady Mone sent lawyers letters to several newspapers because they reported that Lady Mone had/has links to it. The firm was awarded a £203 million government contract to supply PPE during the pandemic.
Lady Mone has said that she made an “Error” when she didn’t reveal that she has/had links to the company, error is not the word that springs to mind if you ask me.
Currently the medical firm is being sued by the UK Government for providing it with allegedly unusable safety kit for medics during the pandemic. The claim is that £122 million pounds worth of surgical gowns were faulty, the company denies this.
Baroness Mone and her husband have been well paid from the deal.
“Bank documents leaked in November last year showed her husband Doug Barrowman (above) was paid at least £65m out of PPE Medpro’s profits, with £29m going to an offshore trust from which Baroness Mone and her three adult children benefit.”
sam says;
‘Scottish students have been among the top performers in global competences, which measure their capacity to interpret worldviews, to engage effectively in interactions with people from different cultures, and to act for collective well-being and sustainable development.’
Oh well that’s OK then. Cannae add, mind….Where do they get this stuff from ?
A wee bit more on the huge profits accrued by firms supplying PPE to the UK government during the pandemic, first off the actual existence of a “VIP Fastlane” to supply PPE was found to be illegal by the High Court in England.
A fashion company owned by a Tory donor was awarded six contracts worth a whopping £163 million quid, VIP Fastlane suppliers charged the UK government, and by default the taxpayer 80% per-unit of PPE more than is normally charged. £8.4 million pounds of the PPE supplied by the Tory donor was found to be unsuitable , the company denies this.
Ayanda Capital a company with NO experience or history in supplying PPE was awarded contracts worth a massive £252 million pounds, one item, medical masks were charged at two and half times the normal price for them, and £145 million pounds worth of masks were deemed unsuitable for the NHS environment.
Its claimed that profiteering through cronyism via the VIP Fastlane was widespread during the pandemic.
The Good Law Project is currently reporting on the scandal.
Sam, at 4:54pm,
You don’t think like a public servant.
The Treasury actually want us to all die on the day before we get a pension, because that’s the point at which we start becoming bloody expensive. Not all, but most pensioners, don’t pay enough tax, start to cost a lot in pensions and healthcare, and for some social care. And some stupid fool in the past tacked on free bus travel. Shocking.
I’m not jesting. That’s how they (mostly) think. Cheap accountants, without compassion.
There was a oddity, though. A couple of months after my Ma died, I got a cheque for just under £3,500 from the Government. My Ma never drew a salary in her life, she never paid stamps, she never ever even tried to claim some form of benefits, she just looked after the house and me and my sister when we were young. My father brought in the income. And the government thought that she’d died penniless, and thought it would make a payment for funeral expenses. Well, she’d already had a fine decent funeral service by then, and a memorial service and lunch with over 150 attending. So I banked the payment.
Republicofscotland at 7:20 pm.
“The Good Law Project is currently reporting on the scandal.”
Oh dear. I agree that chancers took advantage but The Good Law Project are of the same ilk; serial losers crowdfunded by the same. Do give generously though.
@Republic of Scotland 7:20pm
I was OK with the general direction of your comments until you mentioned the Good Law Project. A serial Court failure and wasted a bucket load of donations. Avoid the Good Law Project their hit rate of successful Court action is on a par with the Scottish Government i.e.zero. The primary reason for the Good Law Project moving to Scotland is because the Judiciary is seen to be more amenable to their cause. But they haven’t caught up with the big boy redirection.
Even more profligacy of the Useless Govt:
https://order-order.com/2023/12/11/snp-spending-millions-on-pointless-foreign-policy/
@sam says:11 December, 2023 at 4:51 pm
I’m happy to admit that I do sometimes wonder if Sam might have a point.
Then he posts gems like this one:
the cost of treating the various illnesses that result from inequalities in obesity alone will rise from £2 billion per year to £5 billion per year in 2025
Inequalities in obesity? He’s avin a larff.
sam says:11 December, 2023 at 6:40 pm
Scottish students have been among the top performers in global competences, which measure their capacity to interpret worldviews, to engage effectively in interactions with people from different cultures, and to act for collective well-being and sustainable development
Ah, but are these Scottish students Scots, or “Scots”?
And to settle a long standing argument, when engaging effectively in interactions, are they conversing in English and other European and world languages, or in Scots and other European and world languages.
C’moan Sam, give us the full picture.
@Republicofscotland says:11 December, 2023 at 6:46 pm
no one has been sacked and no one will face prison time
Believe me, RoS, I will be immensely pleased and happy to crowd fund you a ticket to Wuhan for you to make a start.
You go get the barstewards responsible for Covid. It’s long overdue that somebody should.
@twathater says:11 December, 2023 at 6:35 pm
every last one of them swears loyalty and fealty to WM sovereignty and the monarchy
Don’t worry about it TH, it’s obvious that one or two of them (at least) are lying through their teeth.
But you do bring up an innarestin point. If you were sincere and took these things seriously (as many traditional Scots still do), who would you rather swear an oath of loyalty and fealty to?
The monarch? Or our fraudulently elected, pretendy FM, HY?
Hoo boy, the Indy movement sure has dug itself a humungous tank trap there, eh?
Freeze; hell; use these words to make a well known phrase or saying.
James Jones, and George Ferguson that’s fair enough I don’t really know much about the Good Law Project, a quick search turns up that Jolyon Maugham aspires to receiving funds from none other than George Soros enough said.
“George Soros has become one of the great bulwarks against fascism. He hasn’t given @GoodLawProject any money. But I aspire to it acquiring sufficient influence that he does.”
Jolyon Maugham (8 February 2018) “
This is quite an interesting take on ‘The Scotland as Colony’ topic.
We’re a colony within a colony.
https://archive.is/wZcsY
Also on the issue of foreign policy.
Yet the policy of indirect rule remains in force: British rulers may arrange their own internal affairs as they wish — up to a point — but the vital matters of defence and foreign policy are not permitted to stray from serving Washington’s interests.
Remember this one
https://archive.is/inQlD
Cameron’s historic blunder: Fury as PM says we were ‘junior partner’ to Americans in 1940
I wonder about David Cameron’s competence to conduct foreign affairs. …
@A Scot Abroad 7:28pm
Morally your Ma deserved the money. The most important job in life is to bring up children. My wife often thanks me for earning enough to allow her to have 14 years off to bring up our children. What a magnificent job she did. Now her state pension is compromised and her financial situation is precarious if I go first. I have a good corporate pension but she will only get half of that, so we reacted by giving her a substantial savings pot in her name. Cue a critical medical condition for me. I am on the waiting list for 9 months now.
She wants to use her savings pot for me to go private. I said no. Two squaddies grabbing a flak jacket and boots trundling along the ground and me thinking poor soul only to realise when corpus mentos, it was me. You will understand that. But let’s look on the bright side if we die we will reduce Scotlands carbon footprint.
Since you are a stupid arse, Main, I’ll rise to your taunts the once.
“Obesity inequalities” means that the better off are less obese than those less well off. Poverty and obesity and linked.Rising poverty means more obesity is likely with the additional medical costs this will bring.
I’m having a larff at you.
You so readily dismiss public health research across the world and it is evident that you are both ignorant of it and proud of that ignorance. Were you ever a teacher?
This is a link to a piece written by Maureen McKenna.
Ms McKenna has had many roles. She has been a School Inspector in Glasgow and following the success of her work in Glasgow she was asked to show London how to follow her example.
Resist you atavistic desire to slate everything Scottish and read this.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-review/article/improving-educational-outcomes-through-getting-it-right-for-every-child-in-glasgow/0EFA191B005D1DF66866DB651744BAE8
It follows the innovative and excellent work done by Sir Harry Burns and others.
“In the last 10 years[since 2010], educational outcomes for children and young people across the city have transformed. There has been an 87% reduction in exclusions. We have shared data in an open and transparent way, looking at the data in different ways in order to ask questions rather than draw conclusions. For example, we know that only 1% of all children in our schools are affected by exclusion. We know that 75% of children being excluded are excluded only once. We have continued to invest in nurture through our nurture classes and nurture groups.Footnote4 We have invested in professional learning on nurture and on developing whole school nurturing principles.Footnote5 One of our most successful professional learning initiatives has been All Behaviour is Communication, which is one of the six nurturing principles. Our staff, both in education and in partner agencies, will talk more now about children’s distressed behaviour with a deeper understanding of the context in which these behaviours are manifesting. In this way, we are able to place children’s needs at the centre of our decision-making rather than focusing on the more negative outcomes of the distressed behaviours.
Since 2008, there has been a 48.3% reduction in youth crime in the city. This shows that schools and nurseries are having a much wider impact and it gives our staff an increased sense of their own value and worth with the affirmation that we are ‘doing the right thing’.”
@ Republicofscotland at 8.32
The bold Jolyon is also a barking mad trans activist, who once boasted about killing a fox with a baseball bat on Boxing Day while wearing his wife’s green silk kimono, after said fox had eaten J’s chickens, which had clearly come home to roost but not been locked up securely enough.
So I avoid him entirely.
@sam says:11 December, 2023 at 8:54 pm
You should do your own research before you cut and paste other people’s daft findings on here.
For example, 800+ million people today are hungry, perhaps starving, due to not being able to get enough to eat. That’s around 10% of the world population.
See if you had taken the trouble to find that out Sam, you might have thought twice about bleating on here about “obesity inequality”. As I said, in the face of the world’s ongoing and enduring hunger epidemic, rational people find it really difficult to summon up much sympathy for those who choose to overeat themselves into serious illness.
Anyhoo, something else you could learn Sam – how to respond to a post without finding it necessary to namecall like a primary school kid.
UK gov suing private companies for providing faulty PPE for seasonal flu?
Sounds like an excuse to give them even more money –
and with damages calculated on basis of the emergency rates that that procurement had tendered, negotiated, agreed and had delivered
and penalty damage based on relative prejudice – Lady Mone being selected for particular persecution first and foremost for being Scottish and a real Lady, willing able and well placed enough to respond to cries for help in a time of desperate need (exaggerated or not)
Her lawyers should be able to make a tidy bit of comission too 🙂
sam says:
11 December, 2023 at 9:07 pm
This is a link to a piece written by Maureen McKenna.
Ms McKenna has had many roles. She has been a School Inspector in Glasgow and following the success of her work in Glasgow…”
All very self-congratulatory but the latest PISA results don’t put Scotland in a good light. The devolved government is letting everyone down, and the undeserved award of even greater powers wouldn’t improve their performance, nor would it magic-up a more capable, hitherto invisible bunch.
“You go get the barstewards responsible for Covid”
John Main.
As professor Jeffery Sachs has said Covid IS a manmade virus, and like me he points the finger of blame at Washington with its hundreds of biolabs around the globe.
Sach’s further states that, like reigning in the Zionists to stop the genocide, the political will doesn’t exist to expose Washington.
School Inspection Report 2019
“Glasgow City Council is making excellent progress in improving learning, raising attainment and closing the poverty-related attainment gap. HM Inspectors are confident that the evidence and evaluation to date indicates the following strengths and aspects for development.
Strengths
The very strong council-wide vision focused on reducing the impact of poverty on children, families and communities.
The relentless drive of the Executive Director in improving the educational outcomes of children and young people living in poverty in Glasgow.
The exceptional progress made in reducing the impact of poverty on the educational attainment and achievement of children and young people.
Outstanding approaches to career-long professional learning and leadership, which have strengthened the skills and knowledge of staff and, as a result, improved children’s and young people’s attainment.
In-built sustainability through capacity building is at the heart of the professional learning approaches undertaken across the city. Education Services haves strongly promoted the importance of long-term sustainability across all aspects of their universal and targeted approaches to permanently reduce the impact of poverty on outcomes for children and young people.”
Did I really just read John Main telling someone to do some research?
And not to use name calling, like a primary school kid?
Hahahahahah!
Priceless lack of self awareness from Lá Main.
@John Main;
The FM isn’t on the same level as Luggy (not Sturrock); there’d need to be a head of state of some sort to fill that gap. Who that would be and how they’d be chosen would all be up for discussion, I suppose.
Allegiance is generally sworn to an office, is it not? XYZ “and their successors” or somesuch. So if it’s a choice between a president of Scotland and a king of GB/RUK/whatever, then Scotland wins.
Jesus Fuckin Christ these governments are so out of touch with wat their citizens want that its frightening.
“ROME, Dec 11 (Reuters) – Italy, France and Germany called on the European Union to impose ad hoc sanctions against Hamas and its supporters, the foreign ministers of the three nations wrote in a joint letter to the EU’s foreign policy chief Josep Borrell.
“We express our full support for the … proposal to create an ad hoc sanctions regime against Hamas and its supporters,” said the letter seen by Reuters.
“The swift adoption of this sanctions regime will enable us to send a strong political message about the European Union’s commitment against Hamas and our solidarity with Israel,” the letter said.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/italy-france-germany-call-ad-hoc-eu-sanctions-hamas-2023-12-11/
Sam, that screed above at 10:07 pm sounds like total nonsense. Self-congratulatory claptrap.
It is a different context, but there was a time when I held a role as a staff officer in a Divisional HQ within NATO. There was a system them in which Divisions would be checked over, to see that we were functional and organised.
We didn’t inspect our own Division. No, we were allocated Divisions almost randomly. One year we got the 4th US Infantry Division, the next we got the 2nd Infantry Division in northern Italy. You’d go out there with about 12 colleagues, and call them out in the middle of the night. They had no notice whatsoever, and most inspections resulted in 2 or 3 senior officers being sacked.
And we all wrote reports that were absolutely harsh. As harsh as we could justify. That’s the only way to keep results improving.
Not the soft soap that you’ve pasted in. Get some proper inspectors up from Cornwall or Kent and they’ll tell you whether Glasgow schools are worth it. The PISA evidence suggests that they aren’t.
If Scotland was World Class in Education why did Scotland withdraw from TIMSS and PIRLS when introducing CfE?. Perhaps the answer is to withdraw from PISA as well. Then there would be no doubt we are World Class in Education. As long as we are not compared with anyone else. And in a declining International comparison our educational attainment in Highers has increased. But hey ho don’t compare standards with anyone else the only way for us to be remotely promoted as World leading. Thanks to the SNP/ Green Government we have suspended reality.
Derek says:
11 December, 2023 at 10:16 pm
@John Main;
Allegiance is generally sworn to an office, is it not? XYZ “and their successors” or somesuch. So if it’s a choice between a president of Scotland and a king of GB/RUK/whatever, then Scotland wins.
Just as a matter of interest, how would a President of Scotland be chosen?
Who would be entitled to stand for the position?
How long would the term be?
Things like that.
With independence just round the corner, we’d better start to think about this.
I am not comparing Scotland’s education, health, etc with England, I am just watching the place go to the dogs, paying higher taxation, being banned from things left, right and centre, seeing queues lengthen, shitty online services replacing face to face, and a government more interesting in every passing woke, globalist bullshit than sorting out the obvious basics.
John main
I dont think I have much in common with the SNP.
I want independence.
crazycat says:
11 December, 2023 at 9:11 pm
@ Republicofscotland at 8.32
That gentleman and his crew make me uneasy.
Charles (not the R one), at 10:47pm,
I admire your foresight. Like most mortals, I can’t see around a corner. I can have a guess, but not actually see around it. And yet you can not only see around a corner, but one that’s a thousand years away. This independence thing is maybe happening. In a thousand years.
Charles
Scotland wouldn’t have a president.
Scotland will return to popular Sovereignty.
I like the swiss model which is an example of popular Sovereignty in action. The public decides through referendums. If it’s not passed by the ppl it’s booted out.
Three levels of government.
Confederation, cantons & community.
https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/politik-geschichte/politisches-system.html
Local
Scotland doesn’t pay higher taxation unless you earn £50,000+
& drink like a fish. In that case it’s £1,500 extra. Wow – Jeez! Call the cops! Not!
On the plus side. Council tax freeze, cheaper housing, no water meter, free childcare+ school meals + tuition, free elderly care + bus pass + prescriptions + dental/eye checks…
Once all the extras are all taken away, by the next Yoon government who won’t mitigate £600 mil, then you can start greetin’ you’re paying more.
Jesus, Geri, who is is paying for that all?
I’m not representative of all Scots, but I pay my taxes, and most of my friends live in let’s say the higher earning parts. And most of them aren’t planning to hang around in the unlikely event of iScotland. So who is going to be belting out the money?
Scotland already pays for it. It’s out of our money, stupid.
Contrary to popular belief we don’t get free pots of money. Only awarded debts + interest for shit we don’t want.
The people who aren’t warmongering selfish Knuts will pay.
You pay tax for better standard of living & services. It isn’t your personal shopping list to dictate where it’s spent & on who.
I don’t want that rust bucket that’s trident but yoons just love it.
Amazing init? They don’t like higher taxes to fund a weans school meal but don’t mind outdated weapons & warring.
There’s a want aboot folks like that…
Oh dear, Geri, you are now officially bonkers.
Scotland receives far more in revenue than it pays in taxation.
So you just try to make your dream sheet up of what your fantasy iSotlandGov is going to be paying for, and you will find that you are billions short.
But then, you aren’t the sharpest tool in the box, are you? Stupid is as stupid does.
Geri at 0336am,
You are correct Geri, Scotland does not and never has benefited from English colonial rule in this unwanted, undemocratic so-called ‘union with England.
By fiddling the figures, with things like GERS and Barnett, England tries to make it seem Scotland gets handouts. For free! All due to English largesse!!
Let’s just think about that then shall we.
Supposedly, according to the unionist sock puppets on here, England so loves Scotland that it dips deep into its pockets, purely out of kindness and hands every Scot an extra 1200 (or more!) per year – and from taxes that we are led to believe are ONLY raised in England.
That is the sh*te unionists spout. Indeed, some loony unionists actually believe it.
But then you recall, we have an English Tory colonial government that won’t even pay nurse, doctors, feed hungry kids or disabled folk in England, yet, somehow magically we are to believe they happily dish the dosh for every single Scot, no matter how personally rich each one may be.
It is truly the most epic baloney, in the history of global economics.
Sadly, there are still some Scots who believe such lies from England.
A Scot Abroad says:
12 December, 2023 at 3:03 am
Jesus, Geri, who is is paying for that all?
I’m not representative of all Scots, but I pay my taxes, and most of my friends live in let’s say the higher earning parts…
And thank God for that small mercy.
“ If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace…”
I’m sure you know the rest by now. 😉
Another chance today to do a deal with Tories to abstain in the Rwanda vote in return for Indyref2
But will the gravy trainers do it?
@Derek says:11 December, 2023 at 10:16 pm
if it’s a choice between a president of Scotland and a king of GB/RUK/whatever, then Scotland wins
Each Sovereign Scot will have to make up his/her own mind.
As a point of principle, I would be very disappointed if many Scots would swear allegiance to a president in office due to a flawed and fraudulent elective process.
Recent trends in that area have not been good.
And personally, I wouldn’t swear allegiance to him anyways, from the bleedin obvious consideration that my allegiance could never be reciprocated by him. Cos that’s how these things work, when you take the trouble to investigate.
As I wrote earlier, these considerations used to matter a hell of a lot to most. They still matter to many who believe considerations of nation and culture are deeply important, and not just TV entertainment.
But we shouldn’t be having to speculate about this. This question, like so many others, would have been done and dusted a decade ago, if the SNP had ever been a serious movement for Independence.
Dickie Tea says: 12 December, 2023 at 7:17 am
As I had mentioned previously the Rwanda scheme will not work even if it could pass all the legal hurdles.
Logically, things like like are the only way for the SNP to extract concessions from the FPTP Westminster system. The Tories have put themselves in a corner over this with the UK election in under a years time. The SNP does a deal with the Tories and abstain from a law that isn’t going to work. Labour does this all the time and it doesn’t seem to hurt themselves electorally in the long term.
Of course it won’t happen. The SNP have also boxed themselves in a corner by portraying themselves as the anti-Tory party so they can’t abstain from such a law that they have whipped up so much anger about.
If they had did this, they might have had a slim chance of getting disgruntled independence supporters behind them at the next election but no, they will decide to be the anti-Tory party and at the UK level, the best anti-Tory party will be Labour.
Like Pension Pete, they aren’t the brightest souls in Christendom and they will be voted out in future elections.
@Republicofscotland says:11 December, 2023 at 10:27 pm
Jesus Fuckin Christ these governments are so out of touch with wat their citizens want that its frightening
Careful, RoS, Johnroflmao will be along in a mo to point out that you haven’t provided any evidence for what the citizens of European countries actually want.
But don’t be frightened. Sane, rational citizens across the globe want a negotiated cease fire, hostage/prisoner releases, and undertakings of non-belligerence that will allow aid, water, food, etc into the Gazan population.
Right now, sane, rational citizens across the globe are reading daily, credible reports of fierce, bitter fighting, with casualties on both sides, so it looks like we aren’t yet going to get what we really want.
Info from 2010, showing regional GDP per capita and regional distribution of wealthiest households.
Eyebrow raising, what?
https://i.imgur.com/0XZP1bT.jpg
@ Geri says:12 December, 2023 at 3:36 am
fund a weans school meal
It’s verra innarestin to consider that as recently as a hundred years ago, most able-bodied Scots men would have knocked to the ground anybody who insulted them by suggesting they were so inadequate they could not put food on the table for their family.
But no point in living in the past.
As we are constantly being told we don’t have nearly enough kids, I have to ask who are these weans Geri feigns such concern over?
I wonder if Geri knows herself.
Reliefweb – 21,731, including 8,697 children and 4,410 women as well as those missing and trapped under the rubble who are now presumed dead.
“You know what, Robbo, I don’t have a fucking clue.
…..
“There’s a welter of contradictory claims, statistics and facts online. I don’t have the time to wade through them.”
John Main @10.54am 17 August 2023
@ASA
“Self-congratulatory claptrap.”
Unable to read?
Violence reduction in Scottish youth. Head hunted to do the same in London. Continuous academic improvement. Fewer exclusions.
“Proper inspectors” from Cornwall.
You offer zero evidence to support your conclusions.
Eurostat produce annual data tables on the performance of EU member countries in terms of tertiary education. For the ten consecutive years immediately prior to being pulled out of the EU, Scotland topped those tables in terms of the percentage of ‘degree-bestowed’ adults in the workforce – in fact, it was the only country to exceed 50% annually.
@George Ferguson
Sorry George. Competition within education and globalisation of education has its critics.
The various weaknesses of PISA and their limitations can be found here.
https://theconversation.com/problems-with-pisa-why-canadians-should-be-skeptical-of-the-global-test-118096
1. A narrow measurement
PISA numbers are limited in what they can explain and the conclusions they can support.
PISA measures math, science and reading skills, not more holistic educational goals or understanding of literacy as defined by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO). PISA is a narrow measure of educational achievement.
3. Statistical uncertainty
PISA tests a sample of students and the results are then adjusted to reflect a whole population of 15-year-old students. The scores therefore include a measure of statistical uncertainty and PISA can only report a range of positions (upper rank and lower rank) where a country can be placed.
There is a co-relation between poverty and lower test results: the OECD notes that up to 46 per cent of the differences in PISA mathematics scores among OECD countries can be explained by socio-economic disadvantage.
Psychometric experts, who examine the fitness and effects of particular methodological choices and the validity and reliability of modelling and calculations, criticize PISA for downplaying the problematic nature of its calculations, and its lack of transparency in reporting uncertainties.
The majority of nations fall in the middle PISA rankings. However, small differences in mean scores can shift rankings by 10 to 20 places.
Relying on a small number of questions also means scores are highly affected by completion rates. In some jurisdictions, higher scores may result from greater significance being placed on PISA completion by parents and school authorities.
4. Pressure to narrow curricula
As an instrument of international comparison, PISA has created pressure for states to narrow curricula, relegating subjects such as the arts and social studies to second-class status, and to introduce testing cultures to monitor performance and achievement.
5. Overlooking inquiry-based learning
As school systems narrow curricula to focus on testable concepts, students may reach high levels of proficiency in a few subjects but lose out on programs of study based on active, inquiry-based processes and content.
Countries with the highest PISA scores appear to have the lowest levels of inquiry-based learning. High levels of inquiry-based science appear to have a negative association with PISA science scores. Focusing on PISA may increase skill levels but cause students to miss out on learning that generates higher-order thinking.
7. Corporate partnership in the age of digital surveillance
Finally, journalists and researchers have expressed concerns about PISA’s partnership with Pearson, a global educational business enterprise that boasts it operates more than 70 countries worldwide, reaching 100 million people.
The partnership is a worrisome conflict of interest. PISA assesses and ranks school systems and Pearson is a provider of global and online charter schools, tests and education consulting. Additionally, in an age of rising concern about digital surveillance and data privacy, it is reasonable to ask how data on students and teachers that’s collected globally may be used, and to what end.
Does this mak him an even weeter pish fart?
When you look at the number of schools, hospitals, critical infrastructure plants (water, electricity, fuel) combined with the mass slaughter of women and children, and the openly genocidal language being used by those doing it, then there is zero doubt that we are witnessing monumental war crimes here, that are right up there with the atrocities of WWII, full bore war crimes.
I always wondered what it would have been like to live through those times, humanity’s darkest hours, well now I know… I never really understood the phrase, “the banality of evil” until now. But it is so true. That is exactly what it feels like. Something utterly monstrous, evil is taking place, yet all around me life is going on as ‘normal’.
We are heading for a fall… I don’t know how or when but it is surely coming.
We are well into life imitating art, specifically the Mitchell and Webb, “Are we the baddies” sketch.
This from 2013 paper by Macgregor Campbell ( a relation?) in New Scientist.
“Second, the common-sense connection between test scores and future economic success doesn’t necessarily hold up. For developed nations, there is scant evidence that TIMSS rankings correlate with measures of prosperity or future success. The same holds for a similar test, the Program for International Student Achievement (PISA).
In 2008, Christopher Tienken, then at Rutgers University in New Jersey, compared 1995 TIMSS scores with the 2006 Growth Competitiveness Index. This index was devised by the World Economic Forum to measure a nation’s future economic health. Tienken found that for developed countries there was no statistically significant relationship (International Journal of Education Policy & Leadership, vol 3, no 4).
Tienken, now at Seton Hall University in South Orange, New Jersey, has since done a similar analysis of the 2003 PISA mathematics rankings and two measures of economic success: per-capita GDP in 2010, and the 2010-2011 Growth Competitiveness Index. The study, to be published in April, again found no statistically significant relationship.
These findings make TIMSS and PISA rankings seem irrelevant. But it could be worse than that. In many cases, high test scores correlate with economic failure…
…In 2007, Keith Baker of the US Department of Education made a rough comparison of long-term correlations between the 1964 mathematics scores and several measures of national success decades later.
Baker found negative relationships between mathematics rankings and numerous measures of prosperity and well-being: 2002 per-capita wealth, economic growth from 1992 to 2002 and the UN’s Quality of Life Index. Countries scoring well on the tests were also less democratic. Baker concluded that league tables of international success are “worthless” (Phi Delta Kappan, vol 89, p 101).”
While PISA rankings may not directly corollate to absolute success, happiness, wealth or quality of life, because there are many other factors – continually plummeting down the rankings shows a damn good indicator of the direction of travel.
If not, what indicators are we improving on that make up for the shortfall? Trans awareness? Colonial guilt?
Gord 9.53am
Agree 100%.
I can’t understand the indifference so many Scots have for their country.
@Mac (9.29) –
Hear hear.
It’s not ‘war’.
We’re all being forced to watch a snuff movie with our eyelids pinned back, like Alex in A Clockwork Orange.
The fact that we feel powerless whilst being ‘represented’ on the world stage by psychos like Sunak and Starmer is generating huge anger which has nowhere to go. Mental health problems will, even now, be soaring and there’s no infrastructure to deal with it.
And we have armchair generals in here supporting it or scrabbling around to find some kind of equivalence to justify it all. Guys in tracksuits and trainers facing 70-ton tanks as their families are buried alive. That’s ‘war’?
@Ian Smith
“continually plummeting down the rankings shows a damn good indicator of the direction of travel.”
Not if PISA scores are worthless.
Eurostat produce annual data tables on the performance of EU member countries in terms of tertiary education. For the ten consecutive years immediately prior to being pulled out of the EU, Scotland topped those tables in terms of the percentage of ‘degree-bestowed’ adults in the workforce – in fact, it was the only country to exceed 50% annually.
England is gaming the PISA procedures.
UK Department for Education “Pisa 2022: National Report for England”, executive summary, page eight: “It is important to keep in mind that the sample of participating pupils may not be entirely representative of all 15-year-old pupils in England … the sample for England did not meet two of the 82 Pisa technical standards … the final sample had somewhat higher academic attainment on average than the general population and a somewhat lower proportion of pupils who had been eligible for free school meals in the past six years. In other words, higher performing pupils may be over-represented …”
England chose as a representaive sample about 4% of English schools, the better performing ones.
Scotlands children were chosen from 32% of schools – a much more representative sample.
Once competition and globalisation is introduced countries will game the system.
There is no telling what Pisa scores actually represent.
A.s.a So you were in NATO?
There’s no better slave than those that don’t realise they are.
@ Ian B at 11:34 am
The utter saturation of the “media” in steering a particular narrative and agenda just highlights their double standards, and ultimately provides a degree of insight as to their true objectives.
Where was the similar level of coverage to “inform” us all of what was going on in the likes of YouCrane a decade ago, or Yemen, etc.
Even when asked, prominent internet posting shills like John Main can’t provide any links highlighting their past expressed “concern” for what was going on in 404 back then. So really they’re just Johnny come lately band wagon jumpers banging away with whatever current drum beat is required by their (pay?)masters.
At least the likes of bands like Killing Joke have provided numerous records and have been pretty consistent in highlighting what is going on and fairly on the money for decades.
Regards wider chatter on why we are where we are. If you look across our society when you are out and about you can clearly observe the reasons, as those with power are clearly managing to continue having success with their divide and rule tactics through media influence on both analogue TV “news” & “newspapers” and digital social platforms. And that runs alongside other tools of control which can suppress a peoples’ health, outlook and aspirations.
We are what we eat and the shear volume of crap convenience food sold which is packed with detrimental to health ingredients is staggering. But as a great deal of folk are so busy just trying to get by they are easily duped into consuming products that create all manner of debilitating ailments which pull them into the vortex of being a compromised individual.
And a large amount of individuals in our society being compromised in terms of their physical health, mental well-being, and energy levels is exactly what those in established positions of power want, as it means the plebs generally lack the abilities to comprehend the big picture and unify to revolt against the imposed system that holds them down.
And even some relatively well off folk that you’d think would be sharp as a tack seem to lack big picture critical thought processes, which is a situation borne from their apparent lack of comprehension of the most basic of matters. EG. Politicians and civil servants ignoring the laws of physics taught at secondary school level are why we end up with an seemingly endless flow of utterly ill thought out policies and other associated problems.
And the tridefecta is up and running this morning: Johnlmfao, IB and Mac.
“Guys in tracksuits and trainers”
Sure, sandwiched in between the guys with the assault guns, RPGs, fortified bunkers, hostages and IEDs, and the 70-ton tanks.
It takes two to tango, just as it takes two to fight continuous, ferocious battles for over two months now. What do you believe is happening – people are throwing their trainers at the tanks?
“right up there with the atrocities of WW2”
Naw, not even in the same ballpark, nowhere even close – educate yersel dude – this stuff is important.
Johnlmfao – great numbers. I could ape you and deny them as unevidenced, malicious confections, but relax, I’m happy to let them stand.
Alert readers may choose to “do the math” and in the gap between the total and the sum of the women and children killed, get a feel for the number of guys with the assault guns, RPGs, fortified bunkers, hostages and IEDs killed so far.
Truly switched on readers might choose to start calling for a negotiated cease fire, a hostage/prisoner swap, and a lasting commitment from both sides to an end to hostile acts – heck the UN could play a part on the ground ensuring that happens.
But dinna fash, I exempt you from the alert and switched on categories. How’s your bedroom carpet standing up?
With the missing £650k of campaign donations still missing here’s a question for Cosy Toes who is encouraged that the right strategy is now being worked up.
Can he confirm that the purchase of a £110k motorhome, stored at Peter Murrells eldery mothers house was and or is good strategy.
And can he also cinfirm that tge recently exposed fact that Murrell had a £95k luxury jaguar car was good strategy.
Thats a fifth of a million pounds on two sets of luxury wheels for the Murrells. Its a lot of money and maybe Pete can tell us of the wisdom of these very expensive wheels.
Made me tgink of Nikola Sturgeon as Scotland’s Imelda Marcos.
Robert Louis
Aye. It doesn’t hold up to any kind of scrutiny.
The English don’t even give their own citizens a spare bedroom but we’re to believe they send big pots of free money to Scotland. If Scotland is good to it’s citizens it’s because the English are generous – aye right!
Main
100 yrs ago folks weren’t being shafted out their pay packet & forced into ‘top ups’
England wants to subsidise multi millionaire big business rather than the man on the street who is working on a zero hour contract with no job security & a high cost of living.
A free school meal has proven to help a child ability to learn rather than sit starving & day dreaming of their next meal.
Yoons are always such tight miserable barstewards. Always wanking over their taxes FFS – why not moan about the many tax avoiders? what’s a free school meal to you eh? The English have helped themselves to £billions from the north sea for free but a £3 quid meal gives you lot the vapours. I’d love to see someone end WM subsidies. They’d have a fit.
Who are these weans? Eh? The ones that fill our schools.
Mia
I have posted under Stu’s “Bleak house” thread further title heading links of my research and where I found the info available to the public over the past five years as you requested where I had aquired my info from,
Hundreds of years of information, As I said yesterday there is more to come, and to much for me to post manually,
That being said I am quite happy to point you in the right direction to the short cut of records available online to any of the public, that a quick search of heading titles will provide you with months and years of happy research.
Enjoy.
Haagsehighlander,
So he has connections to Nato,
And Ellis if you remember had Connections to army,
It gives connective information as to is supporting the union on Wings.
Those with a self interest in maintaining a union are those who say Scotland has no resources,
Like using the land and sea of Scotland as training ground for Nato, and war games,
But I thought England didn’t need Scotland and did not use Scotland, directly or indirectly, and I have not heard of electric tanks and planes being used in the many wars around the wourld that Britian and Nato are in even by proxy, not using Various kinds of Fossil fuels.
Just a thought.
BBC faces boycott over TV licence rule change ‘from April 2024’
“Culture Secretary Lucy Frazer said: “This is a fair deal that provides value for money for the licence fee payer while also ensuring that the BBC can continue to produce world leading content.”
https://archive.is/I4vbK
LMAO! The exact same tripe they spout every time they’re going to put the fee up. If Yous are that confident in your “world leading content” make it subscription then. No? Didn’t think so. Never purchased a tv licence in my life and i’m not about to start.
I’ve not paid a penny to the BBC for twenty years and never will Anybody who moans about paying it should keep their traps shut and keep paying. It’s a just price for their spinelessness.
Well there you have it, The war boys from around the world want Scotland to stay in the union to enable use for deep ports and practice grounds for war, whilst using Scots oil for suppling and lubricating their war machines,
And of course their funded media, who are often on this site dishing Scots.
Gawd – my world would end if I can’t watch Morecambe & Wise this Christmas.. wtf?!
There’s nowt like highlighting the TV times 50 yr old shite with a Sharpie…
An important question that is never answered.
Why do people who try to hang on to a ” union” between Scotland and England try so extremely hard to hang on to Scotland?
Union Ego or Scotlands resources?
Zhao Yong
“In summary, PISA successfully marketed itself as a measure of educational quality with the claim to measure skills and knowledge that matters in modern economies and in the future world. Upon closer examination, the excellence defined by PISA is but an illusion, a manufactured claim without any empirical evidence. Furthermore, PISA implies a monolithic and espouses a distorted and narrow view of purpose for all education systems in the world. The consequence is a trend of global homogenization of education and celebration of authoritarian education systems for their high PISA scores, while ignoring the negative consequences on important human attributes and local cultures of such systems.”
Who he? Ffs – an academic. Christ – he’s teaching our kids (in USA)
Westminster knows that Scotland can withdraw from the Union [as Mrs Thatcher said we could]. See the evidence for yourselves in Grouse Beater, Yours for Scotland and via Voices for Independence.
So why didn’t our 56 MPs in 2015 [that included Alex Salmond] do so?
It is gutting that the information is there in plain view [well in a Westminster committee’s report in 1999] yet our MPs have done nothing with it. Just think how wealthy and happy our society could be if they had acted in 2015.
It is agonising to know this BUT there is still a majority of independence MPs so perhaps now the facts have been presented they will now act…?
Time to refer them all to this article and see what happens.
@Dan says:12 December, 2023 at 12:53 pm
Where was the similar level of coverage to “inform” us all of what was going on in the likes of YouCrane a decade ago, or Yemen, etc.
Even when asked, prominent internet posting shills like John Main can’t provide any links highlighting their past expressed “concern” for what was going on in 404 back then. So really they’re just Johnny come lately band wagon jumpers banging away with whatever current drum beat is required by their (pay?)masters.
This is a remarkably poor effort, Dan.
Few people were much concerned about what was happening a decade ago cos it didn’t threaten the peace of Eastern Europe, the break up of the EU, or the dead certainty that Scotland won’t be allowed Indy, at least until The War is over. But now it does, with a side order of threats to nuke us all into oblivion.
I can’t provide links to these posts you bang on about because there aren’t any. It’s a simple fact, not evidence of a deep state conspiracy. Why don’t you petition Rev Stu to ban all posters who have never posted before? Would that work for you?
As for Yemen and it’s benighted neighbours, who gives a shit? Why don’t you do some research in your home area. Go door-to-door with a blank map and ask people to find Yemen. Harangue everybody who can’t for not caring. Be particularly scathing to those who cannot elaborate the finer points of the Shiite – Sunni schism. See how well that goes down.
But in reality this is all about me having the sheer brass-necked effrontery to post on here that the best solution for the war’s Second Front is a negotiated cease fire, a hostage/prisoner swap, and solemn promises from both sides to goany no do it any more. That gets right up the craw of many on here who really do want one of the sides annihilated, as that will be karma or historical justice, or some such airy-fairy shite.
Ah well, careful what you wish for. And before wishing for anything, try to make some token effort to comprehend how the downstream effects will pan out – when your heart’s desire is granted.
As we see on here daily, it’s a specific failing of the Indy movement and the SNP – that comprehensive inability to pro-actively work out anything. And a sizeable number of Sovereign and New Scots are now saying that if nothing about Indy is planned or thought through in advance, then they’re not prepared to make that leap in the dark.
It is astonishing to think that tonight Sunak could be defeated and we could be facing a general election and the SNP are a totally lost cause.
This terrible position entirelyl the responsibility of Sturgeon and Yousaf
@James Che says:12 December, 2023 at 4:12 pm
The war boys from around the world want Scotland to stay in the union to enable use for deep ports and practice grounds for war, whilst using Scots oil for suppling and lubricating their war machines
That might well be true, although I suspect that a more nuanced reality may be that the “war boys” want access to the deep ports, practice grounds and oil most of all, and don’t really much care whose head is on the stamps and coins.
Which, of course, goes some way to understanding just how much the folly of being anti-NATO, anti-Trident, woolly-jumpered peaceniks has held back the Indy cause over the decades.
Sure, I understand that for some, the allure of Indy is that iScotland could become the nicest, cuddliest, wee disarmed country in the world. And still keep our offshore resources and our crucial geographic position overlooking the North Atlantic gateway to industrial Europe.
But that ship sailed long ago. The current real world demands realpolitik.
If I was in government, I would be assuring the “big beasts” of our support as the international situation continues to deteriorate. That way, the international “big beasts”, such as NATO, the EU, the USA, etc. would have absolutely no reason to fear Scottish Independence, so no reason whatsoever to oppose it, either openly or secretly.
@Sam 9:06am
No need to apologise it’s a free speech blog and debate is welcome. I did say the Scottish Government should withdraw from Pisa if they want to continue with the mantra of being the best Education system in the World. Parents have another view and are voting with their feet. I am currently having a debate with my daughter who hasn’t registered my grandchildren with the Local Authority and intends to Home School. I pointed out the social development aspects. Her retort was to say a burgeoning network of Home School social networks exist and are being extended in Edinburgh. Who is right and who is wrong? En Loco Parentis. It is of course the parents inalienable right to educate their children.
James Che at 4:54 pm
“An important question that is never answered. Why do people who try to hang on to a ” union” between Scotland and England try so extremely hard to hang on to Scotland?”
The “We hate the Tories (and now Labour too)” mantra is so ingrained the Scottish will vote for a ‘Not the Con/Lab Party’ and ignore evidence that they’re much worse. ‘Nationalism’ trumps the party’s incompetence every time. The Union can see an adolescent government would go off the rails given even more powers and it doesn’t need a corrupt, belly-aching, failing foreign state on its doorstep. Separation would see decades of instability on both sides. Better together, for both sides.
@James Jones
“The Union…doesn’t need a corrupt, belly-aching, failing foreign state on its doorstep. Separation would see decades of instability on both sides. Better together, for both sides.”
You’ve forgotten this.
“While leaving the United Kingdom might hurt Scotland economically at the outset, it will probably end up just fine on its own, thanks in large part to its educated population and vast energy reserves. In fact, it isn’t the Scots who should be worried here—it’s the U.K.”
https://fortune.com/2014/09/17/scotland-uk-independence/
The Fortune article needs updating a little. Exchange rate dropped from $1.37 2014 to $1.25 today.
What is it about the Indy movement that makes it so anti having any proper defences? Not that England’s threat (hell even I would man a trench at Carter Bar if the Mercians came up the road, which they ain’t going to).
Look at other countries of similar or not hugely different sizes. Denmark, Norway, Holland. All playing well within NATO, and all because they know what warfare and occupation is about. Finland is the most difficult country in the world to occupy, because they’re like wolves. Sweden is armed to the teeth.
It’s only Ireland that gives weak-minded people in Scotland a lead. And Ireland have been freeloading of the rest of Europe for a century now. Is that what Indy people want Scotland to be, a bum taking help while flicking the V?
The facist Union are on their last legs in global real politik . The Axis of evil , the US , UK and Israel has lost dominance.
They still intend to kill the majority of the world’s population in the next two decades. They’ve been writing about it and praying for it for millennia. Fukin Abrahamics.
The numb nuts defending Jimmy Savile protege their King Charlie 111 are just that . Numb nuts. Of private schools and peadophiles they are the cunts that rule these Isles.
Beasting was the term we all knew of regarding private schools. We knew they weren’t designed to make balanced human beings. The apartheid schools and social system we have has delivered the beasts intended.
Now these same beasts tell us they were indeed beasted but none of ‘them’ are beasts. They’re all victims. Just ask Nicky Campbell all the other private school cunts.
@A Scot Abroad says:12 December, 2023 at 7:15 pm
Worth pointing out that when the graphs of per capita support for 404 are drawn, wee Norway is far and away the biggest spender.
So the exemplar that we are constantly told that Scotland should be seeking to emulate just happens to be the country who’s citizens have each dug most deeply to support the strengthening of Europe’s Eastern Front.
And heck, they’re not even in the EU.
I think Norway is a great little country. One of the reasons it’s great is because it’s hoaching with serious people. They would still be digging deep even if they had no oil at all because they value realpolitik, not fantasies.
The fact they do have the oil & gas is a big help though!
@sam says:12 December, 2023 at 7:13 pm
C’moan Sam, put your back into it FFS. This is so pathetic, it’s not even fun knocking you down any more.
(OK, a wee white lie, it’s still a wee bit fun)
September 2014? Lots of water under the bridge since then, lot of shit gone down, lots of stuff changed, lot of events, dear boy, events.
You must have noticed!
educated population and vast energy reserves
Both resources withered somewhat since 2014.
There has to be something more current, Sam. Something that acknowledges Brexit, Covid, The War, Trump, runaway inflation, Net Zero, runaway inwards migration, SNP administrative clusterfecking.
I suggest you find it and post links to it. That 2014 article is little more than innarestin ancient guff. Soz.
probably end up just fine on its own
Have faith?
@ Sam at 7:13 pm.
I made no point about economies but since you’ve replied with that anyway I’ll say the points made in the 2014 article didn’t change the referendum outcome. They were either unconvincing, unlikely or irrelevant.
@ASA
“A Scot Abroad says:
12 December, 2023 at 7:15 pm
What is it about the Indy movement that makes it so anti having any proper defences?…
…And Ireland have been freeloading of the rest of Europe for a century now. Is that what Indy people want Scotland to be, a bum taking help while flicking the V?
You seem to know little about any subject that you choose to post about.
Irish troops were in the Congo in 1960 to 64. In Cyprus 1964 to 73.
30,000 of its forces have served in Lebanon.
Irish army says:
“Our largest deployment currently is with the UN peacekeeping mission in Lebanon (UNIFIL). We also have Defence Forces troops deployed in the Golan Heights, Syria, Israel, Jordan, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Kosovo, Mali and the Democratic Republic of Congo. Since 1978, a number of Defence Forces officers have also served in different positions at UNHQ, New York where we currently provide two officers to the UN’s Department of Peace Keeping Operations (DPKO).
Since 2007, members of the Defence Forces have served with a number of missions which have been authorised by the UN and led by the EU or NATO. Senior appointments held by Irish Officers are symbolic of the professionalism of the Irish Defence Forces and the high regard they continue to be held in:
From 2007-2009, Lieutenant General Pat Nash commanded the EU operation EUFOR Chad and was awarded France’s highest accolade for distinction in civilian or military valour as a result.
Ireland acted as a Framework Nation of KFOR, with Brigadier General Gerry Hegarty commanding the Multi National Task Force Centre in Kosovo (KFOR) from 2007-2008.
In 2016, Major General Michael Beary was appointed Head of Mission and Force Commander of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL).”
By no stretch of the distorted imagination that you possess could this be described as “freeloading of the rest of Europe for a century now….a bum taking help while flicking the V?”
Don’t like the Irish, do you? It shows.
Fun fact
Norway dropped 10% of the bombs which wrecked Libya.
https://www.prio.org/events/9046
Thought someone claiming to have links with NATO would know that there’s no country called ‘Holland’…
Just saying, like.
Mind you, said poster rarely gets anything else right, so why bother now.
Jim Jones; “…the points made in the 2014 article didn’t change the referendum outcome. They were either unconvincing, unlikely or irrelevant”….
Or unheard.
Folk may have long noticed it is not just the private school boy beasts that are abound.
If confronted by one one of their females just show a wired hair brush and they will likely cower like one of the males confronted with a biscuit. *
*according to pub landlord Al Murray , the last to come on the biscuit, eat it. Furious wanking was indoctrinated. Hence the tractor porn Tory MP
“A Scot Abroad says:
12 December, 2023 at 7:15 pm
What is it about the Indy movement that makes it so anti having any proper defenses?
Answer, yes to appropriate national defenses.
No to Post Colonial UK Global War Mongering.
In a new book, Pulitzer Prize-winning author Caroline Elkins shows how Britain exported and institutionalized racially motivated violence, and covered it up as the country lost its grip on imperial rule.
Harvard Business School Professor Caroline Elkins draws in her new book a Legacy of Violence: A History of the British Empire.
On the other hand: of course, yes to appropriate national defenses and peace keeping forces.
The island of Ireland is 32,595 sq mi. The land area of Scotland is 30,090 square miles (77,900 km2). And the area of Scotland’s seas is 468,315 km2 not using the definition of the “Scottish zone” in the Scotland Act 1998. Scotland’s seas are therefore nearly six times larger than the land area of Scotland. Ireland’s marine territory is over 220 million acres (880,000Km2), which is ten times the size of the island of Ireland.
The current population of Ireland in 2023 is 5,056,935. And the population of Scotland will reach 5.563 million in 2023.
So, there is a potential Ireland:Scotland defense Union of Equals within, for instance, the EU and not NATO – because Ireland is also one of five members of the European Union that are not members of NATO. Scotland could therefore decide to make that six?
Ireland has a longstanding policy of military neutrality: it does not join military alliances or defense pacts, or take part in international conflicts. The nature of Irish neutrality has varied over time, definitely since joining the EU.
Scotland could do likewise, because as of May 2023, in the Defense Force of Ireland, there were 7,764 permanent personnel out of an established strength of 9,500, a decrease from September 2020 when there were 8,529 personnel, comprising 6,878 Army, 752 Air Corps and 899 Naval Service personnel.
If Scotland on leaving the Union of the UK union also had a policy of military neutrality: which would explicitly not join military alliances or defense pacts, or take part in international conflicts. Then Scotland would require, and could exit negotiate from rUK, a comparable military defense to that of Ireland.
A defense and peace keeping force complimentary to the land area of both countries, the marine territory of both countries and the population of both countries.
Off topic, Snp councillor Glen reid has asked Cambridge university library to return Scotlands oldest surviving manuscript, the ‘book of Deer’ to Scotland.
The 10th century book contains the gospels in latin, with gaelic annotations in the margins added in the 12th century. The oldest surviving example of written Scots gaelic.
WTF is this being asked by a councillor?. Where is the outcry from yousaf and the wee pretendy snp parliament. F/n scum who purport to represent our wee colony.
Norway Citizenship Requirements,
You must have lived in Norway for at least seven years out of the last ten years.
IB at 11.34ish… Cheers man. You are one of the good guys on here for sure. And yes I completely agree and I absolutely know it is not a ‘war’.
I along with Chris Hedges bristle at anyone seriously using that word or suggesting it is. But you feel like you can only use the word ‘genocide’ so many times in one day / paragraph…
It is not a war, not even remotely.
One is (USA) highly equipped killing machine professional army, the other is a glorified ‘gang’ fighting out of a concentration camp… a motorised paraglider, versus an F35.
If you or I had grown up a Palestinian, lived their life… where would you be right now.
Sam 8.16pm, well done mate, get that jockholm syndrome c@nt telt.
It looks the proposed flooding of tunnels under Gaza has started:
https://archive.is/xTjwp
This could cause severe damage to the area’s infrastructure not to mention possibly endanger Gaza’s already fragile fresh water supply. More details about this is here:
https://archive.is/di2TN
While this flooding is for military purposes only, the unintended consequence could be that it will make it impossible for the evacuated people to come back to the North of Gaza and cause the land grab by Israel that those against the conflict had claimed will happen.
Only time will tell.
To give Yousaf at least a smidgeon of credit – a rare thing, indeed – he has at least been speaking to people and thus winding up the foreign office and the shiny-faced pig-botherer.
@Sam 8:16pm
So 58 Irish Soldiers killed on UN duty since 1958. The protection of the the Blue Hat. Number of UK soldiers killed in Northern Ireland 1400. By the way I am entitled to an Irish passport as my Granny left Ireland when she was three. A few Scottish Independence supporters can claim that right.
Ayemacranish,
Irelands been freeloading off other nations’ defences for a century now. Their UN forces are weak and not very good on the ground either. They did however do well at Jadotville.
What Ireland also isn’t doing is putting any money into their legal obligations to provide sea rescue. They get Britain to put out maritime patrol aircraft, which they don’t have with a range to meet their obligations. And then they shirk the bill.
@Mac says:12 December, 2023 at 9:19 pm
Your wondrous post contained too many howlers for me to maintain the will to even start to deal with its inanities.
But I’m gonna make an exception for these ones:
professional army
But they’re naw, that’s their secret. They are very largely an army of reservists. That’s how the IDF can field the enormous numbers of men and women it can call up when a national emergency strikes. A standing, professional army of that size would have bankrupted the country long ago.
glorified ‘gang’
But they’re naw. For thousands of them, that’s all they do; study, train, plan, keep fit, develop their defensive tunnels and bunkers. They’re far more professional than many of the reservists of the IDF.
where would you be right now
Seriously? Calling for a cease fire to protect the non combatants I’m supposedly fighting for. The realpolitik route to stopping the killing and maiming of the innocents.
@PacMan says:12 December, 2023 at 9:38 pm
(yesterday)
Aw naw, they’re killing far too many innocent civilians. They need to stop that.
(today)
Aw naw, they’ve worked out a way to continue the offensive without killing innocent civilians. They need to stop that.
John Main says: 12 December, 2023 at 10:20 pm
@PacMan says:12 December, 2023 at 9:38 pm
(yesterday)
Aw naw, they’re killing far too many innocent civilians. They need to stop that.
(today)
Aw naw, they’ve worked out a way to continue the offensive without killing innocent civilians. They need to stop that.
What on earth are you blathering about?
@ayemachrihanish says:12 December, 2023 at 9:12 pm
I’m sure Harvard Business School Professor Caroline Elkins next book, Legacy of Violence: A History of the Russti Empire, will be a page turner. But I guess she’s not going to publish before the completed annexations of 404, the Baltic Republics and maybes a few other minor places.
Not to mention Finland, which too used to be Russti, and which is experiencing all the “provocations” the Russtis usually magic up to justify their tanks moving in.
Anyways, enough of that. What’s the defence impact for the Irish Republic of having substantial offshore hydrocarbon reserves? Oh wait, they don’t have any.
What’s the defence impact for the Irish Republic of having a land border with a neighbour ten times its size, which it intends to supply with renewable electricity from its massive offshore surplus generation capacity, in order to guarantee its economy going forwards? Oh wait, they don’t have that either.
And then we see that currently in Ireland, the government is legally importing hordes of immigrants without popular consent. HY has already made it clear that’s his plan for Scotland too, but that porous land border we have will mean iScotland will get all the delights of additional illegals on top, especially if our economy surges ahead post Indy and/or Climate Change sets the predicted hundreds of millions of climate refugees on the march.
Still see Scotland’s and Ireland’s defence scenarios to be the same? I don’t.
The Republic of Ireland freeloading from England eh.
Have a wee look at the murderous bastards who run England treat the people in their colonies.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0l9NEetnso/?igshid=NGEwZGU0MjU5Mw==
NATO is just a protection racket.
America’s colonial army, in every country, raking in the GDP & free prime real estate. Imagine asking them to leave or falling out. LOL! Can anyone see those feckers leaving quietly ? No. Neither can I.
Scotland would be insane to join. We would follow Ireland. An alliance when needed. Every country should spend money on it’s own defense. At the moment Scotland has zero defense – absolutely bat shit crazy. We don’t even have a patrol boat FFS!
As for better together pish – aye right! Better for who? Certainly not Scots & we don’t need any fecker tell us we need kept in check by England cause we’d make an arse of it – just how pathetic & downright insulting is that? Scots invented the modern world from medicine to invention ..
Sit down FFS!
Private schools & beasts..
Spot on. Just need to look at the shite they endlessly churn out to run the country.
They’re educated in fck all but quoting Latin to appear bright, counting their off shore bank accounts & indulging in shagging pigs heads.
They remind me of Lord of the Flies. Spoilt savages.
@Geri says:12 December, 2023 at 10:49 pm
Somebody smart once observed that a country with no empire must be in somebody else’s empire.
Smarter than you certainly, although that’s a very low bar.
John Main says:
But I guess she’s not going to publish before the completed annexations of 404, the Baltic Republics and maybes a few other minor places.
Keep up. Caroline Elkins book a Legacy of Violence: A History of the British Empire was published in 2022 🙂
Keep up. The United States and United Kingdom are Ireland’s chief trading partners. Other major partners include the other countries of the EU (notably Germany, France, and Belgium), China, and Switzerland.
John Main says:
Still see Scotland’s and Ireland’s defense scenarios to be the same? I don’t.
Fine. Shuffle along then 🙂
I remember on BBC shortbread a few years ago an Officer called Featherstone Haugh trawling for the forgotten cases of people that served in Northern Ireland with PTSD problems in Scotland. I served in his battalion although in a different company. The death rate from that conflict continues. I saw a an ex veteran on the streets of Edinburgh outside Waverly Station last week. I knew from his printed number 2439**** on cardboard he probably served in NI. I gave him a tenner and walked away.The best I could do otherwise I would have sat down beside him.
I see arguments about Empires rearing thir heads. It wont matter much when the Racist and Nazi Trump wins the US Election becasue of the useless and inept man hating Feminists and Wokists. When Trump is finished with transporting them to the Gas Chambers along with the Jews and the Native Americans he will turn his ire and hate on us Native Scots who live here and make the whole of Scotland a wind Turbine Free and Scots Free giant Golf Course. I bet ASA and all other Yoons are having earth moving wet dreams about that scenario.
UN general council has voted for a ceasefire.
US, UK, Isntreal, John Main. – “Oh bugger”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/12/middleeast/ceasefire-vote-gaza-israel-un-intl/index.html
Is note that Geri has now waded in, having been thrown out from the pub. He/shit’s is having a go at the military. And quite possibly taken a blunt trauma injury to the head from the unforgiving kerb after the pub ejection.
There’s not much in life that’s certain, but one minor rock that you can stand upon is that Geri knows the square root of fuck all about military power.
Trump, Biden, RFK jr and all the other runners are extremely Zionist.
Trump’s daughter converted to Chabad-Lubavitch.
https://twitter.com/Syricide/status/1734569732492161475
RFK jr’s entry is weird.
He says the CIA killed his father and uncle but has appointed his daughter-in-law, a CIA spook to run his campaign (Amaryllis Fox).
I think his job is to split the anti-Biden vote.
I haven’t seen any comments btl in response to Alf Baird’s revelation [published on Grouse Beater’s blog and Yours for Scotland] that a Westminster Parliamentary committee in 1999 recognised that Scotland is perfectly entitled to withdraw from the Union.
Alf’s article contains quotes from the committee and it is very clear that a majority of Scottish MPs can extract us from the dreadful position we are in. The SNP and Alba MPs could get us out tomorrow.
I have emailed my MP Ian Blackford to draw his attention to this article and asking him to take the steps to get us out of the Union.
I urge everyone else who reads Wings to go to the blogs mentioned and read the glad tidings for yourselves, PLEASE. And then press your MP to act. The power is in their hands to get us out of this awful Union right now. They MUST use that power.
Ass
Stop projecting.
I bet you were one of those GI Joe’s who went to the chippy in yer camouflage outfit yer Maw bought ye down the market.
NATO is an American rogue army who breaks international law. It’s a mafia outfit & why Ireland wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.
It’s you that knows the square root of fck all on EVERY subject. Scotland would be a natural country with mutual alliance & allies on a need to fight basis. We’re not warmongering fckwits who have a wish to dominate & asset strip other countries around the globe.
You prove more & more that you really aren’t Scottish. You have a fcked up world view.
Sarah, I’ve read it. I think his interpretations are factual and what is proposed possible with political will. This union is indeed awful as are its functionaries/petty elites in Scotland who are invested in it to our horrendous detriment.
@Johnlm
I dont believe anything being pumped out on X/Twitter. Trump is going to win with Putins help if Putin holds out until next Novemeber.Trump does what Putin tells him to do. Putin no doubt told him the 2020 Election was in the bag and Trump is still in a state of shock that his Fuhrer Putin would lie to him.
Trump will win without the Biden vote splitting though as many of those voting for Biden in 2020 will not vote for him in 2024. It is that simple. The American Jews are between a rock and a hard place. There has been a lot of Gerrymandering by GOP and Threats of Violence directed at Election Officials from MAGA in several swing States.
GOP has learned a lot about Gerrymandering from the English/Brit Tories.It was only a matter of time. Trump will ditch the Jews beacsue he will score votes with the antisemitic groups in the US Trumps support for Isreal isnt worth a squat.
Geri,
your normal enjoyable mentally deranged nonsense, as always. Are you merely drunk, or have you jagged up with something hoofing this morning?
To address a point, who’s going to be a military ally of the wee windy iScotland, if they don’t require Scotland to join NATO? Because, while I’ve spent really a long time, 25 years, in military formations, and even in a dedicated NATO job, I can’t think of a single country that would ally with iScotland if it weren’t part of the alliance.
NATO would want iScotland to join, of course. It’s got sea and air bases. But if it didn’t, they’d be a lot of financial consequentials for iScotland.
@Mac 9.19: well said.
At least most of the ordinary people of the collective West know a war crime when they see one, unlike our bought-and-paid-for politicians.
The people of Guernica certainly do: https://x.com/GUnderground_TV/status/1733484395351200147?s=20
@Johnlmao says:12 December, 2023 at 11:24 pm
UN general council has voted for a ceasefire
Cool, I’ve been rooting for weeks for a ceasefire on here myself.
Now we all have to do two things:
1) Define ‘cease fire’ – obviously that means that both sides down weapons and, well, cease firing. I wonder what the UN General Council thinks it means.
2) Twiddle our thumbs until the two viciously fighting belligerents (and their respective viciously hostile state sponsors) notice what the UN General Council has voted for and decide it suits them to comply.
My money is on January 2024 before item 2) comes into play.
Oh bugger.
The underlying difficulty is that there are two sides fighting, neither of which sees itself as much beholden to UN opinion, and both of which are religiously inspired to annihilate the other.
That’s a tremendously difficult knot to unpick, as everybody who has tried to unpick it for decades can attest. Any non-catastrophic, permanent solution requires both sides to abandon their most cherished belief – that their opponent can be exterminated. And thus, it is not until such time that both sides accept that their opponent is going nowhere that the belligerents themselves might choose to down weapons.
Members of the Simpleton Club (how’s that application coming along, Johnlmao?) still believe that extermination of one side or another is the “obvious” solution.
And so it is, in theory, but for bleedin obvious reasons, the governments of countries all throughout the ME and further afield don’t want millions of stateless refugees. Thus, while they need to make lots of tut tutting noises to suit their respective rioting Arab Streets and virtue signalling Twitler Youth, they too accept the realpolitik conclusion that the belligerents are ultimately going to have to reach their own accommodation. Cos otherwise, this just happens over and over and over again.
Oh bugger. Again.
@ayemachrihanish says:12 December, 2023 at 11:10 pm
I’m guessing the first para of my post went right over your head. I guess that’s my bad for assuming a reader’s minimal comprehension capability when I post.
Anyhoo, thanks for addressing and discussing the obvious differences in defence requirements and capabilities between Ireland and iScotland that I pointed out.
Haha, I crack me up.
This is really searing…
youtube.com/watch?v=LQiUuX3ZM5c
What Scott Ritter is saying here applies almost as much to the UK and that includes Scotland unfortunately) as it does to the US.
An iScotland might endeavour to be as different, within reason, from the current standard dispensation otherwise what is the point of independence.
Being a mediocre «like everyone else», like Ireland has sadly become, is surely not the purpose of the exercise.
iSCOTLAND, independence with intelligence, that ought to be the purpose.
When might we begin?
ASA. Still spewing utter garbage. Time for you to get across to the middle East and sort it out! Oh wait!……
Tinto Chiel, I heard Galloway also compare it to Guernica and it is very valid but this now makes Guernica look mild in comparison. I have run out similar war crime atrocities to compare it to… Warsaw Ghetto, Guernica… none of them fit anymore… it is now standing on its own.
Interesting to see Lá Main shifting his/her beliefs.
Could JM be Joe Biden?
https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1711329340804186619
Being called a simpleton, by an actual simpleton, is tough.
It’s not about religion, dumbo.
https://twitter.com/eomar2828/status/1729181219152154782
Come on, folks, settle down. It’s official.
Scotland’s shite.
Ireland’s shite.
It’s all the Palestinian’s fault.
Engerland’s FAB.
A Twat Abroad and wee John Main said so.
Put the BBC back on and settle down.
@Johnlmao says:13 December, 2023 at 9:28 am
is tough
Sure, addressing or refuting any of my points is tough for you, hence why you never do.
It’s not about religion
DM: Ah, c’mon now Ted, you don’t really mean that.
TC: Dougal, listen to me! It’s not about religion!
[Dougal, eyes popping, looks sideways at camera]
MM: Cup of tea?
So Sunak’s Rwanda plan survives for now.
“With Rishi Sunak facing a test of his authority, there appeared to be fears in his administration that a potential rebellion could see the Safety of Rwanda Bill defeated at its first hurdle in the Commons.
But MPs approved the Bill at second reading by 313 votes to 269 on Tuesday, giving the UK Government a comfortable winning majority of 44.
Following the result, the Prime Minister tweeted: “The British people should decide who gets to come to this country – not criminal gangs or foreign courts.”
On the last sentence I agree only Scots should decide who can come and live in Scotland not a foreign country south of the border.
“All six of Scotland’s Tory MPs voted to back the emergency Rwanda plan. These included Alister Jack, John Lamont, and Andrew Bowie – who are all ministers in Rishi Sunak’s government.
David Duguid and David Mundell also backed the migration bill.
Douglas Ross, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, also voted in line with the UK Government.”
@Mac says:13 December, 2023 at 9:17 am
Here you go Mac:
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-05-29/manila-was-ravaged-in-wwii-why-does-no-one-remember-this
And a wee quote, just for you:
“one of the most savage — but least known — clashes of World War II, the battle to liberate Manila in 1945. In addition to 1,000 American and 16,000 Japanese combatants, at least 100,000 unarmed Filipino civilians were killed — 1 in 10 Manila residents”
That took about 60 seconds of online research. But I guess that unlike you, I’m innarested in finding stuff out.
Gonna quote Stewie at you: “Educate yersel, Dude!”
Mac @9.17am.
On Guernica, the mayor of Guernica sounded the sirens over the town recently, in support of the oppressed Palestinians, its the first time the sirens have been used over the town since 1937 when it was bombed.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/journalist-and-human-rights/nazi-bombing-guernica
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231208-guernica-protests-israeli-massacres-in-gaza-igniting-sirens/
To change the subject a tad I see that it has just been admitted that the UK economy has shrunk by 0.3%
Given the Bonanza that Scottish north sea oil and gas together with ever increasing renewable wind generation is delivering, this is so indicative of the economically collapsing UK.
The UK’s flush is most certainly busted. It’s certainly going down the toilet despite it bleeding Scotland dry.
John Main says: I’m guessing the first para of my post went right over your head.
No. It was just more John Main deflection, deflection, deflection.
However,
For fun, and to keep this collection of points below under one heading, let’s suppose the points and draft letter to follow (in the next post) are: The Machrihanish Initiative.
One Initiative. It is a long read – and please excuse the maybe excessive use of the term – first and foremost. But it needs to be said. As Scotland are in UK International Treaty Law, equal first and foremost. Also if someone is reading one point in isolation of another – it helps.
0. The key question is not WHAT the UK is, but HOW did the UK come into being?
1. How? A Treaty of Union between The Kingdom of England (which included Wales) and The Kingdom of Scotland in 1707 resulted in a Union to be called – The Kingdom of Great Britain and later the UK
2. First and foremost, from 1707 until today the UK is an equal Union treaty between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England, the only two Sovereign Entities and Signatories of The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707.
While these Kingdoms are not necessarily equally represented in?legislative parliamentary expression or legislative practice?- in strict terms of the Union of the UK, they are irrevocably Equal, because in 1707, if you take either one Kingdom away then there is or never would have been a Union to become the Union of the UK.
Therefore, first and foremost, The United Kingdom is a Treaty of Union between The Kingdom of Scotland and The Kingdom of England (which included Wales).
That is the How of it. Why dose it matter?
3. The United Kingdom is also not a sovereign country. It is a Union of two individual Nations or Kingdoms. And Therefore, for 316 years any and all international representation in and of all UK treaties or international obligations – negotiated by international representatives of the UK – Scotland were and to this day irrevocably, in a way that cannot be changed, directly and equally represented in the negotiations.
Again, first and foremost, these are the only two sovereign entities and countries that the Union of the UK represents – international negotiations are always on behalf of both parties to The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707. That being –
Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.
There is of course thereafter – a later legislative ratification of international treaties.
(i) The Kingdom of Scotland is therefore equal in any international representation of UK treaties or obligations negotiated by representatives of the UK.
And very importantly, the binding force of an international treaty is on account of the fundamental principle known as “Pacta Sunt Servanda”. According to this principle, States are bound to fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them under treaties. The principle was reaffirmed in Article 26 of the 1969 Convention of Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, that underlies every international agreement. “Every treaty in force is binding upon the parties to it and must be performed by them in good faith”. In good faith since 1707.
(ii) The Kingdom of Scotland is also Equal (perhaps less so but in theory) for later legislative ratification. However, that point is broadly irrelevant as legislative ratification is NOT the binding force of an international treaty.
Treaties are the first and foremost source of International law. Whenever an International Court has to decide an international dispute, its first endeavor is to find out whether there is an international treaty on the point or not. In case there is an international treaty governing the matter under dispute, the decision of the court is based on The Provisions of The Treaty.
(iii) The Provisions of the Treaty and NOT Legislative Ratification are the binding force of an international treaty. And of course as said, that includes The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707.
4. The Cessation of an International Treaty: Brexit changes everything and not really anything.
The not really anything element of Brexit is that:
(i) Brexit and the international representation of the UK Withdrawal from the EU directly and indirectly was negotiated on behalf of the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England by UK international representatives acting, first and foremost, on behalf of the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England as founders of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (later) Northern Ireland
(ii) Brexit and the UK Withdrawal from the EU could NOT have been negotiated by UK international representation for any other sovereign entities, other than the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England. As, first and foremost no other sovereign entities or countries exist in the The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707. Therefore, international representation in the UK Withdrawal from the EU was, again first and foremost, for those two sovereign entities and countries – The Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.
(iii) Irrevocably, and in a way that cannot be changed, The Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England, jointly and equally, own the international representation and, the UK Withdrawal from the EU Agreements and all the Arrangements and Treaties negotiated. As again the international representation made by UK representatives could only be, and was first and foremost, on behalf of the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.
Again, the binding force of (The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707) of any international treaty is on account of the fundamental principle known as “Pacta Sunt Servanda”. According to this principle, States are bound to fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them under treaties. The principle was reaffirmed in Article 26 of the 1969 Convention underlies every international agreement. “Every treaty in force is binding upon the parties to it and must be performed by them in good faith”.
5. The Brexit changes everything element is – what of significance did Brexit added to Scotland qualifying right to self determination: One irrevocable thing is that it set out the process of steps, and legal precedents of what to do in the event of a Cessation of a UK International Union Treaty.
(i) In Brexit UK international representatives were acting, first and foremost, on behalf of the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England and have therefore provided to Scotland, in the form of the officially titled Agreement on the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community, a definitive process of Union Withdrawal Steps and a Set of Legal Precedents based on the international representatives that negotiated the Brexit withdrawal agreement for the UK members.
(ii) That officially titled Agreement on the UK withdrawal is a set provisions of an international treaty – or steps and set of legal precedents, Agreements and Treaties which Scotland of course jointly own all of the rights to.
Treaties and provisions which are, first and foremost, a source of International law.
Meaning, that whenever an International Court has to decide an international dispute, its first endeavor is to find out whether there is an international treaty on the point or not. In Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707 there is an international treaty governing the matter under dispute, so the decision of the court is based on the provisions of the treaty. International treaties occupy the same significant position in the field of international law as the legislation occupies in the municipal law.
And “Every treaty in force is binding upon the parties to it and must be performed by them in good faith”.
(iii) Scotland is a de facto independent state that already has a Reconvened Parliament from 1707. In terms of The Cessation of an International Treaty like The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707 did not provide one, but that is on one hand irrelevant as (a) the Charter of the United Nations Declares – in the first three declarations that:
1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and cooperation.
2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
And (b) on the other hand Brexit changes everything because irrevocably, and in a way that cannot be changed, Scotland as a de facto independent state that already has a Reconvened Parliament also now own a definitive process of Union Withdrawal Steps and a Set of Legal Precedents based on the Agreement on the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community – treaty signed on 24 January 2020. This was not the case, (b) was not the case in 2014.
In summary, in accordance with Charter of the United Nations and or the officially titled Agreement on the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community, negotiated by international representatives of the UK on behalf of Scotland a de-facto independent state with its own Reconvened Parliament: then the Scottish Parliament FM can, without recourse, notify the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland of its – Scotland’s intention to withdrawal of the United Kingdom.
That is all that needs to happen.
Two broad refernces:
https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/declaration-granting-independence-colonial-countries-and-peoples
https://fir.bsu.by/images/departments/essh/essh-materials/essh-studyprocess/makarevich/The-law-of-international-treaties.pdf
A draft of that notification is in the next post. Enjoy.
For John, Abroad or any of your colleagues 🙂
Ad hominem attact and deflect away.
It changes nothing.
These are the facts and the Law.
Ass
Who will care about wee diddly Scotland?
Plenty. Especially those who will be investing in it post independence.
NATO has gone exactly the same way as the UN. A good idea at the time but now corrupted & fcked up by the yanks & their vision of world domination. The yanks have over 750 bases
throughout the world, more than any other nation on the planet & NATO is already in the shit for breaking international laws.
It’s a mafia protection racket. Pay them a % of yer GDP & they *might* protect you depending if the other side is more to their advantage or not & then yer fcked with no defence because you funded them instead of building yer own defences for yer own country.
They’ve done it under the guise of *peacekeeper*
P*tin advice to the EU should’ve been heeded. To form an alliance of their own rather than fund a protection racket. Now they’re trapped with a huge chunk of free real estate for Rambo’s to run around in..
Scotland has zero interest in being like little England. We’ve no designs on invading other nations to seize assets
& overthrow regimes because the yanks bark orders to do so.
What possible consequences would their be? Ya windbag!
You sound like the classic domestic abuser.. not just the gaslighting but yer stay or else bullshit..
Do you have a record for an anti social disorder?
Sarah, Alf’s article in Yours For Scotland was seriously misleading. What he did was put forward the written submissions by the Plaintiff in the case as though they were law – they were not. All they were was a statement of the Plaintiff’s case, i.e. opinion. Alf either did not know or ignored the fact that the Plaintiff went on to lose his case and that his submissions were not accepted by the Court and therefore have no force in law.
@RoS. Same as yourself I am a longterm environmentalist, negligible carbon footprint etc. Over the last decade plus though I have fallen foul of other people I know who consider themselves environmentalists, almost exclusively middle class, when I ask them how many people they believe that Scotland can support as a population. Almost every time they would shut down the conversation by branding my question “toxic” and claim that it was racist. Last year, however, one of them came up with a figure of eleven million and stated that this could be accommodated by building on the green belt.
My own views, as an environmentalist, are that both Scotland and Ireland will be destroyed if mass inward immigration is allowed to go ahead, I look around Govanhill at the mass fly tipping, the huge amount of petrol and diesel driven vehicles a number of which are two and a half litre and above, status symbols, and I am of the deeply unpopular view, with people who do not live in the area, I may add, that Govanhill has gone downhill as it became a mini London. I also do not believe that people can be both a nationalist and a communist/socialist, I believe that both Scottish and Irish nationalism have been hijacked by people with ulterior motives the same way that causes such as the abortion campaign in Ireland were hijacked.
In 2017, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon gained approval of the Scottish Parliament to seek a “Section 30 Order” under the Scotland Act 1998 to hold an independence referendum “when the shape of the UK’s Brexit deal will become clear”. No Prime Minister to date has transferred power under Section 30.
What follows is based entirely on the Brexit withdrawal letter – signed by May on that Tuesday evening as she traveled to Brussels overnight, accompanied by her over-worked civil servant and a sleepy guard.
This is what an early first draft to notify The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, in accordance with The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707, and any further Article of Treaty, of Scotland intention to withdraw from The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UK) would look like.
Dear? – the UK PM
On XXXX 2024 23, the people of Scotland voted to leave the UK. As I have said before, that decision was no rejection of the values we share as fellow signatories to the The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707. Nor was it an attempt to do harm to the UK or any of the remaining member entities. On the contrary, Scotland wants the remaining United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland rUK, to succeed and prosper. Instead, the vote to leave the UK was a vote to restore, as we see it, our national self-determination. We (Scotland) are leaving the UK, but we are not leaving Britain – and we want to remain committed partners and allies to our friends across the British Isles.
Earlier this month, the Scottish Parliament confirmed the result of the vote to leave by voting with clear and convincing majorities for the The Acts of Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill. The Bill was passed by Parliament on xxxx 2024 and under the Charter of the United Nations and The Cessation of an International Treaty The Acts of Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill. does not require Royal Assent from His Majesty The King Queen and therefore became an Act of the Scottish Parliament on xxxx 2024.
Today, therefore, I am writing to give effect to the democratic decision of the people of Scotland. I hereby notify The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in accordance with The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707 and Article of Treaty of Scotland intention to withdraw from The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UK). In addition, in accordance with the The Acts of Union of 1707 as applied by its Articles and The Acts of Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill, I hereby notify the the United Kingdom of Scotlands intention to withdraw from The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707. Rerences in this letter to the UK should therefore be taken to include a reference to The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
This letter sets out the approach of The Scottish Government to the discussions we will have about the Scotlands departure from the United Kingdom and about the deep and special partnership we hope to enjoy – as your closest friend and neighbour – with the United Kingdom once we leave. We believe that these objectives are in the interests not only of Scotland but of the United Kingdom and the wider world too.
It is in the best interests of both Scotland and the United Kingdom that we should use the forthcoming process to deliver these objectives in a fair and orderly manner, and with as little disruption as possible on each side. We want to make sure that the British Isles remains strong and prosperous and is capable of projecting its values, leading in the world, and defending itself from security threats. We want Scotland, through a new deep and special partnership with a strong rUnited Kingdom, to play its full part in achieving these goals. We therefore believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside those of our withdrawal from the United Kingdom. and The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707.
The Scottish Government wants to approach our discussions with ambition, giving citizens and businesses in Scotland and the United Kingdom – and indeed from third countries around the world – as much certainty as possible, as early as possible.
I would like to propose some principles that may help to shape our coming discussions, but before I do so, I should update you on the process we will be undertaking at home, in Scotland.
The process in Scotland
As I have announced already, the Scottish Government will bring forward legislation that will repeal the The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707 that gives effect to UK law in our country. This legislation will, wherever practical and appropriate, in effect convert the body of existing UK law (the “acquis”) into Scotland law. This means there will be certainty for Scotland and rUK citizens and for anybody from the European Union and other territories who does business in both or either Scotland and rUnited Kingdom. The Scottish Government will consult on how we design and implement this legislation, and we will publish a White Paper xxxxxx . We also intend to bring forward several other pieces of legislation that address specific issues relating to our departure from the UK, also with a view to ensuring continuity and certainty, in particular for businesses. We will of course continue to fulfil our responsibilities as a member state while we remain a member of the United Kingdom, and the legislation we propose will not come into effect until we leave.
From the start and throughout the discussions, we will negotiate as one Scotland, taking due account of the specific interests of every sector and region of Scotland as we do so. When it comes to the return of powers back to Scotland, we will consult fully on which powers should reside in the Scottish Government and which should be devolved to the regions of Scotland. But it is the expectation of the Scottish Government that the outcome of this process will be a significant increase in the decision-making power of each devolved regional administration.
Negotiations between Scotland and the United Kingdom
Scotland wants to agree with the United Kingdom a deep and special partnership that takes in both economic and security cooperation. To achieve this, we believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside those of our withdrawal from the UK.
If, however, we leave the United Kingdom without an agreement the default position is that we would have to trade on World Trade Organisation terms. In security terms a failure to reach agreement would mean our cooperation in the fight against crime and terrorism would be weakened. In this kind of scenario, both Scotland and the United Kingdom would of course cope with the change, but it is not the outcome that either side should seek. We must therefore work hard to avoid that outcome.
It is for these reasons that we want to be able to agree a deep and special partnership, taking in both economic and security cooperation, but it is also because we want to play our part in making sure that British Isles remains strong and prosperous and able to lead in the world, projecting its values and defending itself from security threats. And we want Scotland to play its full part in realising that vision for our British Isles.
Proposed principles for our discussions
Looking ahead to the discussions which we will soon begin, I would like to suggest some principles that we might agree to help make sure that the process is as smooth and successful as possible.
i. We should engage with one another constructively and respectfully, in a spirit of sincere cooperation
Since I became First Minister of Scotland I have listened carefully to the UK , and to EU Heads of Government and the Presidents of the European Commission and Parliament. That is why Scotland intends to seek membership of the single market: we also understand and respect the EU position that the four freedoms of the single market are indivisible and there can be no “cherry picking” and we also understand that while there have been consequences for the UK of leaving the EU, but Scotland’s vote was a vote to restore, as we see it, our national self-determination.Scotland. We know that we will not lose influence over the rules that affect the European economy. We also know that Scottish companies will, as they trade within the UK and EU, have to align with rules agreed by institutions of which we are no longer a part – just as Scottish companies do in other overseas markets.
ii. We should always put our citizens first
There is obvious complexity in the discussions we are about to undertake, but we should remember that at the heart of our talks are the interests of all our citizens. There are, for example, many citizens of the remaining UK living in Scotland, (and Scottish citizens living elsewhere in the European Union), and we should aim to strike an early agreement about their rights.
iii. We should work towards securing a comprehensive agreement
We want to agree a deep and special partnership between Scotland and the UK and, taking in both economic and security cooperation. We will need to discuss how we determine a fair settlement of the Scotlands rights and obligations as a departing member state, in accordance with the law and in the spirit of Scotland continuing in partnership with rUK. But we believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside those of our withdrawal from the UK.
iv. We should work together to minimise disruption and give as much certainty as possible.
Investors, businesses and citizens in Scotland, the UK and across the remaining 27 member states of the EU – and those from third countries around the world – want to be able to plan. In order to avoid any cliff-edge as we move from our current relationship to our future partnership, people and businesses in both Scotland and the UK would benefit from implementation periods to adjust in a smooth and orderly way to new arrangements. It would help both sides to minimise unnecessary disruption if we agree this principle early in the process.
v. In particular, we must pay attention to Scotland’s unique relationship with England, Wales the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.
England is the only UK member state with a land border with Scotland. We want to avoid a hard border between our two countries, to be able to maintain a Common Travel Area between us, England, Wales, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, and to make sure that the Scotlands withdrawal from the UK does not harm our neighbours. We also have an important responsibility to make sure that nothing is done to jeopardise the peace of the British Isles, and to continue to uphold international laws enshrined in conventions, treaties and standards. Many of the treaties brought about by the United Nations that form the basis of the law that governs relations among nations.
vi. We should begin technical talks on detailed policy areas as soon as possible, but we should prioritise the biggest challenges.
Agreeing a high-level approach to the issues arising from our withdrawal will of course be an early priority. But we also propose a bold and ambitious Free Trade Agreement between Scotland, the United Kingdom and European Union. This should be of greater scope and ambition than any such agreement before it so that it covers sectors crucial to our linked economies such as energy, financial services and network industries. This will require detailed technical talks, but as tScotland is an existing UK member state, both sides have regulatory frameworks and standards that already match. We should therefore prioritise how we manage the evolution of our regulatory frameworks to maintain a fair and open trading environment, and how we resolve disputes. On the scope of the partnership between us – on both economic and security matters – my officials will put forward detailed proposals for deep, broad and dynamic cooperation.
vii. We should continue to work together to advance and protect our shared Scotland, rUK and European values
Perhaps now more than ever, the world needs the liberal, democratic values of Europe. We want to play our part to ensure that Europe remains strong and prosperous and able to lead in the world, projecting its values and defending itself from security threats.
The task before us
As I have said, the Scottish Government wants to agree a deep and special partnership between the UK and the EU, taking in both economic and security cooperation. At a time when the growth of global trade is slowing and there are signs that protectionist instincts are on the rise in many parts of the world, We each have a responsibility to stand up for free trade in the interest of all our citizens. Likewise, Scotland rUK and Europe’s security is more fragile today than at any time since the end of the Cold War. Weakening our cooperation for the prosperity and protection of our citizens would be a costly mistake. Scotland objectives for our future partnership remain those set out in my Declaration of Arbroath speech of XXXX 2024 and the subsequent White Paper published on XXXX 2024.
We recognise that it will be a challenge to reach such a comprehensive agreement within the two-year period set out for withdrawal discussions in the Treaty and Acts of Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill.. But we believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside those of our withdrawal from the UK. We start from a unique position in these discussions – close regulatory alignment, trust in one another’s institutions, and a spirit of cooperation stretching back decades. It is for these reasons, and because the future partnership between the Scotland rUK and the EU is of such importance to each side, that I am sure that time scale can be agreed in the time period set out by the Acts of Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill and Treaty.
The task before us is momentous but it should not be beyond us. After all, the institutions and the leaders of Scotland, the UK and the European Union have succeeded in bringing together a continent blighted by war into a union of peaceful nations, and supported the transition of dictatorships to democracy. Together, I know we are capable of reaching an agreement about the Scotlands rights and obligations as a departing member state, while establishing a deep and special partnership that contributes towards the prosperity, security and global power of our British Isles.
The letter was delivered to xxxxx in London at 13.20 p.m. local time Wednesday by Alex Salmond, Scotland Ambassador to the UK and EU.
End
ayemachrihanish
Great post.
International law only recognises & accepts what’s in the actual treaty & what was agreed between two kingdoms.
They’re not interested in the UKs unwritten bullshit & endless add ons. Only what’s stated in the actual treaty & what was agreed.
That is true of any contract. If it is broken it renders it void.
I often wonder what happened in 1708. Must have been a quiet year for Scotland.
@ TURABDIN at 09.11: “When might we begin?” [to be independent].
TODAY. Scotland IS an independent country – just our MPs won’t assert the power that already exists.
Read the Prof Baird article that is on Grousebeater, YOURS for SCOTLAND, and Voices for Independence date 12.12.23. Ayemachrihanish btl today repeats the facts – we do have the power but lack the politicians to enforce it.
Anyone with a Scottish MP should send Prof Baird’s article to them and insist that they act accordingly. I have emailed my MP, Ian Blackford, and await the outcome…
@ DavyTee19: “Alf Baird’s article was seriously misleading”
There were other cases cited that supported the trend of Prof Baird’s article i.e. that the Treaty of Union was a treaty between two nations AND that the rights and existence of those two countries continued after the Union.
That is a fact, of course. Otherwise how is it that the two countries have two different legal systems? When we were in the EU we didn’t cease, nor did the UK, to exist as a separate entity. The Treaty of Union was just a trading and political arrangement.
Sarah @ 11.51.
I trust you have immeasureable patience as we wait for any action from the “humble crofter”.
sarah says: Read the Prof Baird article that is on Grousebeater, YOURS for SCOTLAND, and Voices for Independence date 12.12.23. Ayemachrihanish btl today repeats the facts
Respectfully sarah, and not that it matters, but Grousebeater, YOURS for SCOTLAND, and Voices for Independence are simply repeating the content and comments I made on Wings two days before.
And that is why i set it out in step-by-step detail today, added the draft withdrawal letter and added a title to the initiative – because it is one body of progress. With one message. Just Leave. What´s the problem?
This is now an initiative that we, others can defend and develop. And of course, as the makes plane. Get on with it. Whats the problem?
sarah says:
12 December, 2023 at 11:56 pm
I haven’t seen any comments btl in response to Alf Baird’s revelation [published on Grouse Beater’s blog and Yours for Scotland] that a Westminster Parliamentary committee in 1999 recognised that Scotland is perfectly entitled to withdraw from the Union.
Here’s a comment. Alf Baird’s assertion is nonsense.
In fact, what he quotes is NOT a House of Lords committee report, but rather a lawyer’s brief on behalf of Lord Grey that was made an appendix to a report. The brief has no standing in law. And the bill that Lord Grey objected to, was passed, rejecting Lord Grey’s contentions.
I suggest you read the full report, before commenting further. Including the government’s submission rejecting the brief by Grey’s lawyers. See https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199899/ldselect/ldprivi/108i/10811.htm
The brief contains this language, that will disappoint some commenters on this thread:
“Article III of the Articles of Union transferred authority to legislate for Scotland from the Parliament of Scotland to the Parliament of Great Britain. Article XXII provided that, in the new Parliament, Scotland would be represented in the House of Commons and in the House of Lords.”
…it’ll never take off?
Someone’s upset the Yoony Tunes again….they’ve all rushed back from the Archers to post comments…
Dundee Scot @ 12:34 pm
“In fact, what he quotes is NOT a House of Lords committee report”
What I quoted does indeed form part of a published Westminster committee report. It is legal advice provided by senior counsel.
dasBlimp says:…it’ll never take off?
Why, because as suggested by probably a colleague of already, someone would kick up a military fuss and drag all the Oil and Gas pipeline infrastructure in the North Sea up with anchors?
That it?
Alternatively das, give us your answer in terms of the fact that Scotland is a de facto independent state that already has a reconvened parliament from 1707 adjournment. And also in terms of The Cessation of an International Treaty, like The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707 did not provide one, explain why?
As the Charter of the United Nations Declares – in the first three declarations that:
1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and cooperation.
2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
International Treaty Law and the facts stand. Hence, get on with it. Whats the problem?
Having read all the above tosh about Scotlands rights etc I will predict the future. SNP will lose about 20 seats in next yeats UK election and then cannot claim to represent Scotland which they have never done anyway in terms of 50+1% votes. Then due to thier complete incompetence in doing anything right that works – seven times in court vs UK government and 7 losses – the Scottish election will result in a unionist majority. Hence independence dead and SNP gradually disappearing which would be an excellent result for Scotland.Thank you Nicola for achieving nothing for Scotland.
Alan Austin? That’s a new one. Or an old one just a new ‘name’?
Dundee Scot says:
“Article III of the Articles of Union transferred authority to legislate for Scotland from the Parliament of Scotland to the Parliament of Great Britain. Article XXII provided that, in the new Parliament, Scotland would be represented in the House of Commons and in the House of Lords.”
So, whats the problem with that?
It is a treaty of union NOT UNIFICATION of two sovereign countries.
And under the terns of “Pacta Sunt Servanda” and According to this principle, States are bound to fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them under treaties. The principle was reaffirmed in Article 26 of the 1969 Convention of Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, that underlies every international agreement. “Every treaty in force is binding upon the parties to it and must be performed by them in good faith”. In good faith since 1707.
So, therefore: if 1707 was a treaty of UNIFICATION of two sovereign countries. Then IT WOULD SAY SO.
The Acts of Union that took effect on 1 May 1707 mentions No UNIFICATION of Sovereignty.
And obviously it does not because it is called, The Acts of Union NOT The Acts of Unification.
And don´t forget Article 26 of the 1969 Vienna Convention underlies that an international agreement and “Every treaty in force is binding upon the parties to it and must be performed by them in good faith”.
Bad faith would be to say, we said and claimed Union in the Treaty – never mentioned UNIFICATION of two sovereign countries or even mention that term in the Treaty of 1707 in the context of sovereignty, but that is what we meant. In bad faith we meant UNIFICATION of two sovereign countries 🙂 Good luck with that 🙂
Alf:
If an MP says “Alf Baird is an idiot” on the floor of the House, and that statement is included in the official record, that doesn’t mean that Parliament declared that Alf Baird is an idiot.
You implied (in Yours for Scotland and elsewhere) that a committee of Parliament had officially declared something. It didn’t. It just recorded some lawyer’s opinion. And rejected that opinion (funny how you didn’t mention that!).
Why do the Yoons like to put the word ‘Scot’ in their monikers?
Anything less like a ‘Scot’ couldn’t be found.
Dundee Scot @ 2:09 pm
Treaty violations are part and parcel of the UK MO. Most if not all UK colonies were handed treaties that were very quickly violated. Scotland is no different, which is what the committee’s ‘opinion’ confirmed.
Once a treaty is violated and no longer in the interest of a signatory party it should be ended. That is the primary function of Scotland’s MPs representing Scotland within the Anglo-Scottish joint UK Parliament. This is what much of the legal advice submitted to the committee explains.
Newsflash.
This just in..
The SNP is not the independence movement.
I repeat..
The SNP is not the independence movement.
SNP is deid. The movement will never be..
As you were..
Dundee Scot
You fail to grasp that even various Tory leaders (& BLiar) all recognised that Scotland had the right to end the Union at anytime of their choosing. That is documented FACT.
It’s only been since 2014 that the Tories & yoons have concocted wee fanciful stories that we need their permission or that we’re chained forever. It’s pure fantasy & it’s a fantasy the international law fully recognises because they are only interested in facts of the treaty – not bullshit they later made up to suit themselves.
Scotland is a sovereign nation & can end the treaty anytime they like. There is no UK without the Kingdom of Scotland. No one made England supreme & various international organisations should have Scotlands representatives as well as an equal seat in WM.
Tick tock..
sarah says on 13 December 2023 at 11:51 am: “Anyone with a Scottish MP should send Prof Baird’s article to them and insist that they act accordingly. I have emailed my MP, Ian Blackford, and await the outcome…”
LMAO! Should make for interesting reading. If he even responds.
Yes Geri and,
someone asked, vanity aside, why call it The Machrihanish Initiative? I said a better title would have been: The Alba Initiative on The Acts of Union to deliver Notification of UK Withdrawal. But they could immediately see the title problem right there.
However, the reality is I’ve never been a member of any Scottish or UK political party. So, The Machrihanish Initiative (for want of a better name) is of the sentiment: “We the people of Scotland do ordain and establish this constitution”. Meaning this Initiative is grassroots. We the people of Scotland do ordain… to deliver, Notification of Withdrawal from The Acts of Union 1707.
Others can redraft, rename and sort out all the errors of spelling, text and punctuation. But the fact remains, that this is grassroots sentiment: “We the people of Scotland do ordain and establish this constitution” that The Acts of Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill will come into effect with the binding force of an international treaty, on account of the fundamental principle known as “Pacta Sunt Servanda”. Where Article 26 of the 1969 Vienna Convention which underlies the claim of every international agreement. That “Every treaty in force is binding upon the parties to it and must be performed by them in good faith”. And also as the Charter of the United Nations Declares in full – commencing with the first three declarations.
The fact is, whatever it is called, this Initiative has an international legally credible foundation. A process of steps and set of legal presidents based on international representation of UK treaties or obligations negotiated by representatives of the UK on Scotland’s behalf.
It has a conclusion. A legally competent draft letter of withdrawal that can be delivered to UK PM xxxxx in London at whatever p.m. local time by Alex Salmond, Scotland Ambassador to the UK and EU. Or any other Scotland Ambassador to the UK.
It is also an A to Z Initiative. In large part due to David Cameron’s hubris, Theresa May and Boris Johnston diligence on behalf of Scotland’s grassroots movement. So, what’s not to like about that?
A Scot Abroad says on 12 December 2023 at 7:15 pm: “What is it about the Indy movement that makes it so anti having any proper defences?”
Got any evidence to back that up? I take it you know every single person in the “Indy movement”? Or are you just pushing another lie as a fact? Like every other country on this planet Scotland’s citizens all hold different “defence” views. So let’s see your evidence to support your bogus assertion.
Nothing wrong with “The Machrihanish Initiative?” Has a good Scottish ring to it. We once had “The West Lothian Question” so if that was acceptable to the masses then i see no reason why we should not refer to this situation as “The Machrihanish Initiative”. Good call! (Thumbs up emoji)
“BBC faces boycott as ‘cancel TV licence’ searches soar over new rules”
https://archive.is/S4RaO
And not before time. A public awakening to this corrupt propaganda organ is long overdue.
Stoker says: We once had “The West Lothian Question”.
Stoker, that´s a really good point…
@ Sven re waiting for a response from the “humble crofter”.
Let’s say I’m not holding my breath. 🙂
@ Ayemachrahanish: credit duly given!
Alf Baird.
Brilliant article Alf read it on YfS, countless Scottish MPs have ignored this and stuffed their pockets over the centuries but now it has come to light with the Scottish public in mind, we should be looking to elect politicians in Scotland that we send to Westminster(indy ones which are the majority) to do the right thing and walk out never to return.
Reading the comments in here the usual Britnat useful idiots, and the Hubble road and Denison mob are doing their utmost to discredit you and your article without any success I might add.
alf baird says:
13 December, 2023 at 2:31 pm
Dundee Scot @ 2:09 pm
Treaty violations are part and parcel of the UK MO. Most if not all UK colonies were handed treaties that were very quickly violated. Scotland is no different, which is what the committee’s ‘opinion’ confirmed.
Since that wasn’t the Committee’s opinion, but rather a lawyer’s argument to the Committee, your comment is nonsense.
But to take your notion seriously, you’re asserting that if in a lawyer’s argument the lawyer writes “Alf Baird is an idiot,” and if the House of Lords Committee records that statement, that means the Committee has endorsed the idea that “Alf Baird is an idiot?”
I reject that notion, BTW. That Committee record would not officially make you an idiot.
It was a pun on your mis-spelling of ‘plain’ (take a look at the quote in my post again.) Just a little jokey to lighten your day. 🙂
Stoker,
we still have the West Lothian question. In a tight Parliament in Westminster, it’s entirely possible that Scots MPs could be the balance that votes through something that England doesn’t generally want. And that’s the same argument as England voting something through that the Scots don’t want. That ain’t colonialism, as fools may think, it’s the underbelly of democracy.
I knew Tam Dalyell, who framed the question. He was troubled by it. It hasn’t been answered.
Oh FFS…
This place is infested with d*ckheads hell bent on telling everyone that Scotland is shit and we should all be thankful we’re British.
How anyone can contemplate being anything other than one of His Majesty’s loyal Britons completely fries their noodle.
Just a bunch of stuffed shirts wrapped in Union flags, doing a pretty good impression of King Cnut.
Was an opportunity let slip when Elizabeth 1 & 2 died?
Scots were not asked whom they wanted as successor monarch of their country or even none at all.
Modern Scottish nationalism plays «footsie» with the British monarchy. On that playing around with a key aspect of «Britishness» it falls at an important hurdle.
dasBlimp says: It was a pun on your mis-spelling of ‘plain’.
Of course 🙂 and since your mis-spelling of misspelling is incorrect – fk – we´ll all just laugh at the irony of your post.
mis-spelling for misspelling 🙂 cos of course: you stared it 🙂
t
Republicofscotland says: Denison mob??
Pal can you not spell Dennistoun? Or am I missing an ice cream?
Doh!
TURABDIN
It didn’t go unnoticed & won’t ever be forgiven that
Dumbza
Stephen Flynn
Brendan O’Hara and
Ian Blackford
Not only attended a foreign kings coronation but made the conscious decision to enter a raffle to win tickets..
They had absolutely no reason to attend, Scotland didn’t benefit.
Not to mention giving away a symbol of Scotlands Sovereignty under a cloak of secrecy, & again, for no benefit to Scotland.
There was also various independence events held that day that they refused to attend.
It isn’t the independence movement who is playing footsie. It’s the SNP who squandered 6 mandates from the Scottish electorate with a clear instruction to start our exit.
The SNP is no longer the party of independence & need to be removed. The sooner the better.
That’s why the yoons criticising the downfall of the SNP is so funny. Like it’s some sort of revelation to us. Regulars on here & the site owner have been trying to get rid of them since 2018 starting with MacNeils plan B at conference that was booed. It seems the membership, or what’s left of it, has also been infiltrated with britnats.
The whole party is now tainted. They don’t want independence. They just want the job of pretending.
A Scot Abroad says: I knew Tam Dalyell, who framed the question. He was troubled by it. It hasn’t been answered.
Well, good for you.
But in what way does The Machrihanish Initiative not deal with, and legally answer, The West Lothian questions?
The fact is The West Lothian questions is a political issue in the United Kingdom that concerns the question of whether MPs from Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales who sit in the House of Commons and asks should they be able to vote on matters that affect only England, while neither they nor MPs from England are able to vote on matters that have been devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Scottish Parliament or the Senedd (Welsh Parliament).
But that has nonsense has zero to do with the key question of – not WHAT the UK is? But HOW did the UK come into being?
At the end of the day The West Lothian question is a smokescreen of that, oh look, there’s a squirrel.
With constant, BBC type media quick, and apparently aimless commentary movement, and of course BBC Scotland and UK media spoon feed compulsive, manic, hyperactive pish and, charging off in all directions of sound bite meaningless conversation and ill-informed discussion.
Some people, me for sure, prefer the better – throw a dead cat on the table, rather than the West Lothian questions meaningless pish.
As it stands, the people in a majority situation in Scotland prefer The Kingdom of Scotland being equal in any international representation of UK treaties or obligations negotiated by representatives of the UK.
So, that is the answer to The West Lothian question. Shuffle along because, we shall in Scotland have so, we shall also determine our own destiny. There is a deed cat for Westminster.
Geri: none of that last post is the point. The only question is – what are the people of Scotland going to do about it?
Should I stay or should I go? That is the question.
And for robertkknight who says: Oh FFS… This place is infested with d*ckheads hell bent on telling everyone that Scotland is shit and we should all be thankful we’re British….
Relax….
It is not who comments on Wings that matters.
It is who reads Wings that matters.
Ach Gareth, jist let the English do what they want. You dinnae like them interfering in Scottish matters so nae point in a Scot interfering in their matters.
https://nitter.net/Grouse_Beater/status/1734901462101012725
And 40 trees is fuck all, the local beavers round my way continue to dropped hundreds with zero adherence to regulations or discussions with other local residents on ascertaining which trees need to go. They jist crack on with indiscriminately dropping whatever trees take their fancy.
They are certainly industrious and destructive blighters, heard they had been burrowing and undermined the rail track which then required extensive engineering to put right.
This week on my mountainbike route another half dozen mature trees have been gnawed to death, and it’s not like the foot diameter silver birch or 18″ diameter oak will become part of a new local eco habitat, as they will either be cut up for firewood or washed away down river and out to sea where they can become shipping hazards. There’s nowt like a big chunk of oak getting sucked through a thruster tube of a large vessel.
One partially gnawed silver birch will likely now need human intervention to deal with it as it is perilously close to coming down on power lines.
Unfortunately, but not unexpectedly I’ve yet to see any enviro-loving treehuggers ever get their heads around the fact that some trees actually do need to be heavily cropped or completely removed because they have on balance become a problem.
Sick to the back teeth of folk not seeing this, but as I stated, it’s not unexpected as it seems a great deal of virtue signalling folk don’t have a fucking scooby with regards to considering the many other knock on factors that trees can affect.
EG. Huge amounts of leaves choking drains causing flooding issues, (“But hey, it’s not my house getting flooded so it doesn’t matter“).
Or rural bus services being curtailed leaving residents without access to public transport because the bus can no longer pass along the main road without getting its roof or windows smashed by overhanging branches, (“But hey, I don’t live in that area or use that bus service so it doesn’t matter“).
Folk need to wise up and get with the program and accept that trees grow and that we require to spend the money and take responsibility for properly managing trees and the associated issues they cause.
dasBlimp says:Doh!
Pal it was you who called the spelling police in. 🙂 So, button up or shuffle along 🙂
Ayemacrahanish,
It’s not evident that the majority of people in Scotland prefer the “Kingdom of Scotland being equal in any international representation of UK treaties or obligations negotiated by representatives of the UK.” I’m not convinced that anybody has even asked the question.
It’s just an assertion by you.
“Or am I missing an ice cream?”
ayemachrihanish
You’re missing a whole tub of ice-cream.
Denison is a Chinthe base (77th Brigade) in Berkshire. the Hubble road crew are GCHQ.
This site is infested by them.
So how long did you serve at RAF Machrihanish base before it closed down?
Why the ICJ will do nothing about the current genocide on the oppressed Palestinians.
“Yesterday I attended a session called by Palestine at the United Nations in Geneva. Over 120 states attended. While the formal session consisted of statements of national position with few surprises, I was able to discuss with a large number of delegates in the corridors why the Genocide Convention has not been activated triggering a reference to the International Court of Justice.
The answer is now clear to me. It is not that people are worried that a claim of genocide will not be successful at the International Court of Justice. It is that everybody is quite sure it will succeed. There is no respectable argument that this is not a genocide in the terms outlined above.
The problem is that once the ICJ has determined that this is a genocide, it follows that not only are Netanyahu and hundreds of senior Israeli officials and military personally liable, but it is absolutely plain that “Genocide Joe” Biden, Sunak and members of their administrations are also criminally liable for complicity, having provided military support for the genocide.
The International Criminal Court cannot ignore a judgment of genocide from the International Court of Justice and will have no choice but to issue arrest warrants.
A genocide is the worst of crimes. Just how appalling this one is has been shown to the world like never before, through the power of social media.
But to the global 1% whose interests rule the world, no number of dead Palestinians makes any real difference to their interests. On the other hand, the ramifications for the international system of wealth concentration, if western political elites start to be held accountable for their crimes, are uncertain and therefore carry more risk. This is particularly the concern of ruling classes of both Western and Arab states.
It may sound astonishing, but to the world’s diplomats the enormity of a genocide appears less troubling than the enormity of doing something about it.”
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/12/murder/
Even if we believed the weak assertions that ‘Scotland is perfectly entitled to withdraw from the Union’ you’re still a minority demanding that it happen with no attempt to persuade “Yoons” to change their minds, they’re just derided. Consequently it’s never gonna happen.
Re my previous comment the results of yesterdays UN Resolution on a ceasefire in Gaza.
“UN General Assembly ADOPTS resolution demanding immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, as well as immediate and unconditional release of all hostages”
The UK abstained.
FOR: 153
AGAINST: 10
ABSTAIN: 23
https://twitter.com/UN_News_Centre/status/1734686801699491975/photo/1
A Scot Abroad says:13 December, 2023 at 6:22 pm
Ayemacrahanish,
It’s not evident that the majority of people in Scotland prefer the “Kingdom of Scotland being equal in any international representation of UK treaties or obligations negotiated by representatives of the UK.”
I’m not convinced that anybody has even asked the question. It’s just an assertion by you.
Well fine pal. Prove it otherwise?
Cos it is still more legally credible than your pish from two days ago about how military intervention and anchors dragging up the north sea oil and gas infrastructure would end the vote on Scotland voting to end their participation in the UK Union.
I can see how your tune has changed – but who the fk do you think you are? With the ´ I’m not convinced that anybody has even asked the question.´ Who gives a flying fk what you think. Best shuffle along pal with your project fear pish…
I’m beginning to think you are a bit dim-witted. The ‘Doh’ reply is understood by most to be an exclamation that they have themselves made a mistake. I won’t mention either that you also made a spelling mistake in your post that criticised my spelling. Go take a look: it’s ‘staring’ you in the face.
In any case, my original post that started this tedious little spat was a joke that you misspelt (see what I did there) ‘plain’ as ‘plane’ and went on to ask “Why not?” to which I replied it wouldn’t take off. Now, I know after explaining it it doesn’t seem all that funny but, evidently, it ‘flew’ over your head.
Dim-witted you might be but in common with some others here you have a distinct lack of a sense of humour. Lighten up.
So Welsh FM Mark Drakeford is to stand down as FM next year, Drakeford was the Welsh FM (Labour) for five years, unlike BLiS in Scotland Labour under Drakeford has worked with their parliaments indy party Plaid Cymru, on policies such as providing free school meals.
Drakeford did however block a Welsh Inquiry into how the Welsh government handled the Covid pandemic, Drakeford said a UK wide inquiry was sufficient.
“Also Plaid Cymru’s boss also took aim at Drakeford’s record, going on: “When he took office, the First Minister spoke of the opportunities that came with the position of leading the Welsh government. Regrettably, those opportunities have been squandered, resulting in longer waiting lists, falling educational standards and a stagnant economy.”
The likes of Nicola Sturgeon, and the millionaire knight of the realm Sir Keir Starmer have praised Drakeford’s tenure as Welsh FM, which in my opinion doesn’t say much, if those two said it was raining outside I’d feel compelled to look out the window just to make sure it was.
Some further information on that tree removal matter from down south which gives a fuller picture and explanation justifying what is being done.
https://www.torbay.gov.uk/news/pr9039/
Archived link.
https://archive.is/J51Fq
Is there anyone left still surprised that its SAS in the firing line yet again.
“Three outgoing anti-poverty commissioners have slammed the Social Justice Cabinet Secretary in a highly critical letter.
They claimed Shirley-Anne Somerville was guilty of “inaccuracies” and omission amid a row over their departures.
The Poverty and Inequality Commission, which provides independent advice to Scottish Ministers.”
https://archive.is/7RsIs
Can supporters of the status quo and fonts of all knowledge on seemingly every global issue, please explain to the plebs why a local council doesn’t have a street sweeper, and instead pays a private contractor from a different region to travel all the additional miles #CarbonFootprintKlaxon to badly clean about half the roadside gutters in a village before fucking off again.
I’m fairly certain the private contractor will not be operating in as a charity, and will therefore be charging the council enough to to cover the capital investment of the machine and associated running and driver costs; So why can’t the council do the same in house without all the additional hassle and logistics of involving an external orgnisation.
Ayemacrahanish,
I don’t need to prove anything at all. You made the assertion, you back it up if you’ve got any balls. Which you may well not.
dasBlimp says:
I’m beginning to think you are a bit dim-witted. The ‘Doh’ reply is understood by most to be an exclamation that they have themselves made a mistake…
Really?
Well pal you’re obviously a boomer.. cos they’re the only dimwits in 2023 that still comment on another persons spelling or grammar
As you say pal… dim-witted you might be 🙂 , but in common with some other trolls here you and others have a distinct lack of a sense of humour 🙂 . So shuffle along pal…
Or try adding authentic, meaningful content to the tread rather than troll dim-witted pish…
Touch a nerve did I? Good! By the way – you spelt ‘thread’ wrong. LOL.
http://robinmcalpine.org/the-new-darien-part-one-the-new-elite-misrule/
Part two now out.
http://robinmcalpine.org/the-new-darien-part-two-what-waste-looks-like/
@Dan 7:43pm
I suspect the contractor costs are being assigned to the Council Capital Budget. Illegal of course but legality doesn’t seem to bother the SNP. Councils are broke, years of underfunding and now gaffe prone Humza at his Conference promises to freeze Council tax. The Liz Truss of Scottish Politics. Anybody any idea of how this policy will be resourced? Centralisation gone mad. Financial probity gone mad. A dark day for local democracy. And of course considered opinion is catching up with WoS contributors. A 2 billion pound hole 24/25 now mainstream. And it could be worst if they go ahead with an additional 2p tax for over 77k. We are back to Derek MacKay and the Laffer Curve. How depressing.
Fk dasBlimp boomer says:
By the way – you spelt ‘thread’ wrong.
Yea LOL boomer. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Shuffle the fk along pal…. with your:
´you spelt ‘thread’ wrong.?
Aye pal that comments going to save the UK and the Union 🙂 🙂 🙂
Humza, you rubber-faced goon – if you’re reading this, I just want you to know that I consider you to be nothing more than a waste of amino acids, an affront to Mother Nature and a suspicious stain upon the duvet of the cosmos itself 🙂
Kirsty Blackman says immigration will be without limit in an independant Scotland. Millions can just walk in without question
Will that replace the number of Scottish peple who the SNP will have driven out I wonder. It may be necessary to rename the country so as the newcomers are not offended. Deciding on a new name could be a problem.
Rainbowland sounds possible. Or Newoke perhaps. Transylvania would be ideal but it’s already taken, unfortunately. Or not. Stonewallerland could be the answer. Or Cummanjoynus.
Arn’t the SNP wonderful.
A Scot Abroad says: Ayemacrahanish,
I don’t need to prove anything at all. You made the assertion, you back it up if you’ve got any balls.
Pal my, as you call the assertions, are fully detailed, referenced and legally sound.
While Abroad says: ?I don’t need to prove anything at all.? Because my rebuffal line manager hasen?t told me or dasBlimp what to say yet 🙂
And now add Republicofscotland who says:
So how long did you serve at RAF Machrihanish base before it closed down? 🙂 🙂
Well pal… as one of the only mile long plus runways in western EU that can land USA B52s..
that would be – closed down my ass 🙂
Shuffle along pal 🙂
@Merganser 8:42pm
One of things about standing on a street during an Independence Referendum in 2014 is you learn a lot about prevailing attitudes in your own country. I commented a few days ago that I only got one question on nation debt restructuring. Also a couple years ago I tiptoed around the most asked question. It was about immigration and concerns around that. I punted the Alex Salmond line of an immigration points system similar to Australia. Controversially my conclusion was, we are not that different from England on the immigration issue.
Torquay getting rid of its palm trees?
Mark my words!
It’ll be the wildebeest next.
@ayemachrihanish
If you want to self-id as independent, go right ahead. I would reckon your fantasy is completely harmless.
The trick though, for Scotland to become independent, is to convince a majority of Scottish voters that they too want to self-id as independent.
Then, providing we can persuade some politicians and civil servants to do the donkey work, we will be independent.
Off you shuffle then and get persuading. As I have stated on here plenty of times, make it persuasive enough and I will vote for Indy too.
As I have also stated on here plenty of times, get some of these politicians to commit to plebiscitary elections and all of us Scots voters can get a chance to have our say.
There’s WM elections coming soon, and HR ones a couple of years down the line. Plenty of time to get it all arranged. Make a start and keep us posted.
Whats with baroness Moan producing a programme about her innocence when she is currently under investigation.
How in earth is that allowed???
Her problem is of course if the government need a sacrificial lamb re all the fraud created during covid, she will be hett. Always handy to a a jock to blame and a schemie one at that.
Remember how the financial crash was pinned on RBS and not the london regulatory system.
I guess Moan is being lined up to take a well deserved drop and all the money wint change that. Wonder uif the programme will undermine a fair trial and that’s her plan??
@Merganser says:13 December, 2023 at 8:42 pm
Given the “Student Grant” politics and arrested adolescence of many of the regulars on here, I have often thought Nova Albania would get a lot of votes.
But let’s be real. It’s at least 50-50 it will be something ending in “stan”.
@Republicofscotland says:13 December, 2023 at 6:51 pm
FOR: 153
AGAINST: 10
ABSTAIN: 23
In which group is Hamas included?
Wokistan?
@Republicofscotland says:13 December, 2023 at 6:34 pm
the concern of ruling classes of both Western and Arab states
Craig Murray dimly discerns the realpolitik of the situation.
There is hardly an Arab/Muslim country in the world that does not covertly want Hamas eliminated. The fact that they can get Israel to do it for them has them secretly hugging themselves with delight. For them, it’s a win-win.
But they need to be seen to be doing the performative tut tutting to stop the Arab Street from rioting, and in the west, the Twitler Youth from getting out of their bedrooms to do something.
Hence the theater.
Cue pelters, but let’s be honest, many on Wings BTL lost contact with reality a long time ago.
C’mon, peeps.
If you’re gonna quote other commenters, make it obvious what you’re quoting.
Use QUOTE or QUOTE (without the spaces) at either side of the quote, to show what you’re quoting, otherwise we’re left wondering who typed what to whom.
It’s hard enough reading the ‘gaslighters’. without having to work out what real btl commenters are typing.
Lá Main seems a bit unhappy with the ceasefire idea.
Aw diddums!
@ Merganser says:13 December, 2023 at 9:44 pm
Wokistan?
Naw, I dinna see it.
The people who would use the “stan” suffix will ruthlessly extirpate all traces of woke, just as soon as it is in their power to do so.
Woke is a weapon that can be deployed to advantage against our existing societal liberal values. Once these values have been destroyed and new values created in their place, woke will be too dangerous an idea to retain.
Shug,at 9:22 pm,
the “London based regulatory system” was actually run by a pair of Scotsmen for the preceding 11 years.And RBS was also run by a Scotsman.
You don’t want to be throwing stones at our own greenhouse.
A nation that declare themselves Gods Chosen are massacring the pigs . Those 99.9 % of us that aren’t them are oxygen thieving pigs. Even the most famous one of them considered the 99.9% of us to be swine most his life. And he’s meant to be the loving one.
We can’t say they haven’t declared themselves and their intentions.
The founders of Israel may not have all been full members of the National Socialist German Workers Party , but it is a fact that they gave them the lists of the wrong type of Jew.
A bit like asking Ibrox for a bad Christian list.
John Main says: Cue pelters, but let’s be honest, many on Wings BTL Unionist trolls lost contact with reality a long time ago.
Aye, that one two days ago about ship anchors dragging up north sea oil and gas pipe line if Scotland vote to leave was zonkers… 🙂
military intervention and ship anchors dragging up north sea oil and gas pipe line.. yip… Unionist trolls lost contact with reality a long, long time ago :-).
A scot abroad
How are you sensible dave I have been watching you
A scot abroad
How are you sensible dave I have been watching you
They were classic jaffa cakes as you well know
Those of us Scots who have mainly lived abroad understand our complicity in the United Kingdom. Fuck knows what may have become of the pirate England but with a parcel of rogues from here a beast was created that made the global drugs market a thing and gave birth to the United States.
Guilty as charged.
It’s all a bit like C Murray said about the UN holding Israel to account for the genocide they are enjoying at the moment but the real fear to hold such monsters to account.
The Britnat folk are so dangerous.
The numb nuts on here are potentially deadly despite the waffle and blah they offer . Just my opinion and life’s experience.
1709,however, was not a good year for Callum.
Finally got my paws on my motorsport scrutineer mate’s decibel meter yesterday…
As far as I can ascertain the legal noise limit for air source heatpumps is 42db measured 1 meter from neighbour’s nearest window or door.
With the heatpump off ambient noise levels are 33db on A setting and 45db on C setting.
With the heatpump up and running and droning away I’m measuring 49db on the A setting and 65db on the C setting.
A weighting is for general sound level measuring, C weighting is for checking low frequency content of noise.
I will now try to get another more advanced microphone setup and sound engineer to assist me in checking and confirm noise levels, but 49db is nearly 10 times louder than 42db so it looks like the heatpump is emitting noise above the legal limit.
But that isn’t surprising when…
“A report by acoustic experts Apex Acoustics, Sustainable Acoustics and ANV Measurement Systems found that none of the top five heat pump manufacturers heat pumps would be meet the current Microgeneration Certification Scheme noise guidelines, unless the unit was 4m away.”
https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/news/heat-pump-defra-review
@ayemachrihanish says:13 December, 2023 at 10:18 pm
I don’t know about anchors dragging up stuff (other than those recent occasions when subsea communication lines have been cut – the Russtis are suspected of that).
I think it very likely though that any unilateral action by iScotland to assert control of other entity’s offshore assets would be thwarted by a few choppers containing rUK marines, etc.
I think it very likely that the current legal owners of these offshore assets would have international law on their side, and it would just be a case of requesting assistance from the nearest available and willing military.
I haven’t read your spiels above, so perhaps you have already covered how iScotland will plan to purchase all of the offshore facilities from their current legal owners at the going market rates. I just hope that if you have, you have taken into account that the kind of eejits who have been running the ferries procurement, and auctioning off our Scottish wind futures, will need specially constructed double bargepoles to keep them away from our Indy negotiations.
I’m hoping these double bargepoles can be procured and manufactured in Scotland.
Over to you. The record for the greatest numerical usages of Yoon and Troll in one post is no doubt within your reach, if you choose to go down that route.
@Dan says:13 December, 2023 at 10:40 pm
Defra? WTF!
You’ve been colonised, man!
Soz, but as regularly pointed out by Xaracen, all these rules and regs are unlawful, dating right back to 1707.
Sorry but
We’re too poor
Too wee
Too stupid
Regardless of how you wish to elongate the critique is just as inaccurate, insulting, predictable and so fucking predictable.
I honestly don’t believe most the Britnat posts on here have owt to do with Scots . It’s a laughable suggestion to the hundreds of thousands of us living in England and millions elsewhere.
Yes , Scotland can seem parochial and it’s institutions run like a bowling club . Who are the folk running them ? Don’t say SNP , they’re long lost to the independence cause.
The SFA are a prime example. Most of them don’t even support the National Football Team to the extent that their own website for the A team squad has a number of players listed with no club and Jack Hendry playing for Peterborough United like he did ten years ago. The SFA ( the old an acronym suits) enjoy their jollies and hospitality. Troughers.
It’s a tough one
Scotland has to pay for what is already Scotland is a good one ! Fotze
@ John Main
You’re always saying “show me the money”, well all this shite being rolled out and the inevitable costs involved in resolving all the arising issues will be sucking yet more money out of the system that could have been used for better purposes.
There seems little chance of you actually addressing the issues raised so could you just scroll by instead of sticking your neb into every aspect mentioned btl.
Dan, regarding drain cleaning, tree pruning and so on; I think that they may have been victims of “compulory competitive tendering” that was brought in in the late 80s. Because councils’ roads departments and so on weren’t then guaranteed work, the staff and vehicle fleets were cut back (and the budgets were presumably cut to match).
There’s bus-shaped spaces under the trees here, as they have protective bars on the front nearside.
The Finns are good at tree maintenance.
@San 10:40pm
A commendable engineering investigation on heat pump noise. The manufacturers of heat pumps have already said temperatures in Scotland and building infrastructure in Cities negate the use of heat pumps as a viable option.The Scot Snp/Green Government response its only applicable to rural communities the most sustainable part of Scotland. Invest in small arms factories. Their share price is undervalued.
An independent Scotland would welcome immigration.
They’ll replace all the undemocratic Britnats who will be leaving in a strop..
Yay!
In fact – why wait? Can we start now? What’s keeping them here I wonder? Everything is shite so they say..
Thatcherisim
The Tories love it…
Have CEOs
Have deputy CEOs
Have deputies for the deputies
Give the deputies managers
Give the managers assistants
Give the assistants, project managers
Give project managers branch managers
Give the branch managers deputies & assistants
Give the deputies & assistants supervisors
Give the supervisor an assistant
Are we confused yet?
Have the supervisor delegate to a..
zero hour numpty.
Benefit scrounger working for self esteem credits.
Fck all works done so far but padding out all the salaries & arranging the pecking order..
Discover the wage bill is fucking humongous!!
Cut services.
Blame it on benefit scroungers.
Scrounge for a cheap contract.
Reorganise & start all over again… Yay!
Thatchers Britain. Where nothing trickles down but is kept in house.
Dan 8:25
Just read Robin..
Aye, what he said.
Money wasted on bullshit over stuffed salaries.
It did come in under Thatcher in the 80s. Corporations & big business are to be placated at all costs. They’ve far too much power.
I haven’t seen the results of the last census yet (has it even been published?), but those diligent people at the National Records of Scotland keep beavouring away at the data analysis. See:
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files/statistics/rgar/2019/Pages/mig-sec.html
And what it says is that there’s a lot of people coming into Scotland from rUK, and a lot of Scots going south.
One doesn’t need to think too hard that that’s retirees going north, and workers going south. Which means that’s taxes being paid in the south, and healthcare being consumed in the north. And it also means that a pro-Union balance is just actually happening, while the useless tosses in Holyrood argue about themselves.
There’s going to come a point at which Indy people are going to be a bit too on the slim side to ever be a majority. And it’s probably in the next decade.
No we won’t.
The franchise will change.
If they’ve not been a resident for 15 yrs they won’t have a vote in a referendum.
Ass
They’re not Sovereign Scots therefore have no say on Scotlands constitution.
Don’t cry. The UK uses the exact same method.
You won’t cheat the system, sunshine.
John Main says: I think it very likely though that any unilateral action by iScotland to assert control of other entity’s offshore assets would be thwarted by a few choppers containing rUK marines, etc.
Really? Like Really??
Who other – entity’s offshore assets are you talking about?
This was A Scot Abroad – he says: Let’s assume that Scotland did somehow have a vote to decide to leave the union, and that nobody kicked up a military fuss and allowed it to happen.
And Its oil pipes being smashed by deliberately dragged anchors..
Plus the fish were going to disappear too…
Or like yourself… there is no trolling out of project fear or veiled threats 🙂 like i Scotland being thwarted by a few choppers containing rUK marines. 🙂
Utterly deluded comments.
Then John Main says:how i Scotland will plan to purchase all of the offshore facilities from their current legal owners at the going market rates? Well thats more pish.
In the Autumn Statement on 17 November 2022 Chancellor Jeremy Hunt announced that the rate of the Energy Profits Levy would be increased to 35% from 1 January 2023, and that the lifetime of the Levy would be extended for a further two years to 31 March 2028.
Energy levy,taxation and duty are all based on extraction. Day one of iScotland what currently goes to HM treasury simply goes to iScotland treasury. BP or any operator of a WoS license can either pump or shuffle off and let someone China, Norwegian etc else take over the extraction operations… no big deal. Happens all the time.
Wind futures – ditto Energy levy,taxation and duty are all based on tide, wave and wind generation – like that ever stops.
Day one of iScotland what currently goes to HM treasury simply goes to iScotland treasury.
And John Main says without a hint of irony: have you have taken into account that the kind of eejits who have been running the ferries procurement, and auctioning off our Scottish wind futures.
Well yes 🙂 so far no Scottish Gov has lost £37 billion on the a Covid Track and Trace farce or £3 billion on Navy warship HMS Prince of Wales – some eejits have that one being stripped for parts after a major mechanical failure last year.
Those kind of UK eejits 🙂 yip Scotland has those too..
So your point is caller?
Scotland’s all bad and will be thwarted by a few choppers containing rUK marines dragging anchors over oil pipelines so says John Main and A Scot Abroad 🙂
Shuffle along pal..you embarrass yourselves with all that deluded project fear pish..
The Scottish Government’s proposal is that an independent Scotland would apply to re-join the EU as soon as possible. Scotland would be in an unprecedented situation. No other country has been taken out of the EU and its single market against its will. Nor has any other country applied to re-join the EU.
So maybe its the proportion of Britons who say Brexit was a mistake moving north because it has hit a new record high this month, a survey from pollsters YouGov shows.
With few economic benefits to show for the June 2016 vote to leave the European Union, 57 percent of Britons said the decision was the wrong one compared with 32 percent who thought it was correct, YouGov said on Tuesday.
32 percent who thought Brexit was correct – fk thats a political rUK tick tock when the Scottish Government’s proposal is that an independent Scotland would apply to re-join the EU as soon as possible. Aye..like UK Gen Z and Millennials dont want to be back in the EU…
Abroad Gaslighting? 2 out of 10 for effort
Geri,
you with your delusions of franchise.
It’s going to remain exactly as it is. Because no ScotGov civil servant is going to come to find a haddled old wreck in a bedsit to take down instructions that is going to be 50%+1, and “Aye, that’s what I say, and bring me up some Buckie.”
Ass
You best familiarise yourself with the rules.
Personal insults to people will end with you being banned.
You seem to serve no other purpose here. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened already.
The UK has no territory in Scotland.
That includes her maritime boundaries.
What eejit is talking about marines? Yoons? LMAO!
An iScot renegotiates contracts. It’d be under new management. Don’t like it? Good. Fck off is the answer to that.
Plenty others to replace them.
Those licenses should never have been awarded in the first place because the territory & it’s resource don’t belong to England/UK government. They belong to Scotland & negotiations should have been conducted in Scotland.
It’s not a territorial union & never was & newsflash, BLiars boundary changes will be reversed.
Geri. Couldn’t put it better myself. You’re making ASA sound like the idiot he is.
Not sure about choppers but he’s certainly a walloper!
It was an anniversary today. It is 10 years to the day since I stopped paying the English TV Tax. 10 years to the day since I stopped subsidizing the English/Brit parasites vile anti Scottish Propaganda.
ayemachrihanish
Get the EU tae fuck,. NATO and the US are speaking right through the EU. Stay away from the empires. They are stappit fu’ o sick bastards. Seriously.
An independent Scotland. Not a single handful of earth or a drop of water less.
“ ayemachrihanish , Geri & Anthem “ .” Better together “ post 2014 .What a joke! As Scotland slides deeper into poverty dragged down by a bankrupt England and the most incompetent and corrupt Westminster government in living memory . Ably assisted by the most useless , subservient , spineless , cowardly “devolved” lackeys mascarading as a so called “ Scottish government “ who haven’t got the guts to stand up and CONFRONT Westminster over the Independence mandate ( recognised historically as a majority of MP’s ) . After the Brexit farce Sturgeon & Blackford “caved in” instead of withdrawing every single SNP MP from Westminster and establishing an augmented Holyrood chamber to include all reserved powers held in London . An immediate ratification referendum on independence should have been called there & then . No permission should have been sought . With a yes vote thereafter the 1707 “ union treaty” should have been declared over .
If ever there was a time to “ seize the moment “ it was after the 2016 Brexit vote . Since then our people have had eight years of “ paying for the consequences “ . Sturgeon & Blackford should be ashamed of their abject failure to stand up for the people of Scotland with a 2-1 vote for us to remain within the EU . What a pair of cowardly “ bought & sold “ cretins “. Sickening !!
Good grief,
the collective IQ of pro Indy supporters on WoS must be nearing 35.
Don’t put your hand up, Geri, because we’re not sure if you can count to one.
@Dan says:13 December, 2023 at 11:16 pm
There seems little chance of you actually addressing the issues raised
Guilty as charged, Dan, but do tell us, just what do you think all the other roasters on here are doing? There’s plenty that must struggle to dress themselves unaided, never mind address issues.
could you just scroll by instead of sticking your neb in
If you want to moderate, get your application in. There’s a fair few ahead of you in the line.
If die-hard Indy supporters are such delicate flowers they can’t thole a bit of well deserved criticism, it’s no surprise Scotland is the suppurating mess it is.
I was simply observing that your recourse to the law with regard to the noise levels from the heatpumps blows out of the water the nonsense frequently spouted on here about the WM parliament having no lawful legitimacy. Maybes you could help with winnowing out that kind of shite, instead of just ignoring it, as you obviously don’t accept it to be true when it comes to everyday practical matters?
The entire site would improve greatly if more people could be ersed to get stuck in and call the moonhowlers out for what they are.
@ayemachrihanish says:14 December, 2023 at 12:38 am
Top post Aye MacH.
I reckon that once it’s daylight, I should be able to see your cognitive dissonance from here.
When “Yoons” deploy the “too wee, too poor” trope they are shouted down.
When diehard Indyanistas deploy the “too wee, too poor” trope, they cunningly wrap it in the EU flag and say “dinna fash lads, Brussels will have it all under control, we’ll be just grand”.
The unanswered question remains: Are they fooling themselves, or are they just trying to pull a fast one on the rest of us Sovereign Scots?
Get it intae yer heid, Aye MacH.
You won’t get a majority for Indy as long as what’s on the table is the fake Indy of Brussels rule. We’re not marching behind your fake FM into a fake Indy.
You won’t get savvy Sovereign Scots to commit to the unknown that is the rapidly degrading EU, riven with internal divisions, and fighting an escalating war on its Eastern frontier.
It’s not 2014 or even 2016 any more. Wake the feck up.
@North Chiel says:14 December, 2023 at 3:00 am
eight years of “ paying for the consequences “
Uh – oh. Sounds like you’ve had Covid. Hope you’re making a good recovery.
But it does affect the brain long term, inflicting drastic memory loss.
You forget about Covid and The War. Either one of them has had economic and political effects that dwarf the minor effects of Brexit. Added together, well, you get the picture.
But if you’ve forgotten them, you make the common error of attributing everything you see to Brexit alone.
Then you start to fantasise that rejoining the EU will miraculously undo Covid, put Pres P back in his box, and stuff our pockets with lovely folding wonga.
Soz, but that’s not how the real world works. If we get back into the EU, and iScotland is as prosperous as claimed, then the EU will take the dosh off us, just as they did when it was the entire UK (subbed by Scotland) footing the bills.
Thems the rules, and the EU needs the dosh more than ever. Soz again.
Innarestin article on Unherd today:
https://unherd.com/thepost/ukraines-accession-to-the-eu-could-cost-e190-billion/
Can’t wait for us to get back intae the EU and pick up our share of the tab, eh lads?
C’moan, post something about Yoons, Trolls and Project Fear.
Innarestin article on Unherd today:
“4004’s accession to the EU could cost €190 billion – A new study weighs the heavy financial cost of a new member state”
Can’t wait for us to get back intae the EU and pick up our share of the tab, eh lads?
C’moan, somebody post something about Yoons, Trolls and Project Fear.
Good to hear Lá Main @7.02am admit he doesn’t answer questions.
His schoolboy errors just go ignored and uncorrected.
An unending stream of the same repetitive drivel.
ASA. Wow! That took a few hours for your single brain cell to come up with that one. Must be that military training eh.
This, https://aurelien2022.substack.com/p/whats-left-and-whats-left is a good read. It provides a good description, in general term, of what we see today in politics.
In particular, it’s easy to see that the Capital Party, formerly called the Labour Party, has moved to the right, because that’s where the money is. Either for party donations or jobs for the alumni. In a neo-liberal, globalised world it’s the international institutions and corporations that are running the show. National politics are just local politics, and on the global stage, carry the same weight as a county council does here.
So all the revolutionaries here, who yearn for control of our part of the planet, are rowing against the tide. There’s no independence without the complete destruction of neo-liberalism. Personally I think (hope) it’s already started. The on-going conflicts are tugging at the fabric of the rules based order. The one in Gaza is doing untold damage to western societies this will be the one that brings everything crashing down. Whether it will happen all by itself or through a confrontation with whatever organised force that WILL arise, remains to be seen.
There’s a lesson there for Alba too. Perhaps it’s time to simply count up the middle-class votes and the working-class votes. If the latter are in the majority then throw their weight in that direction and go full on for an overthrow of the current order. If the middle-class votes are greater then they can continue as normal. There’s no way to reconcile the two sides, unless one eliminates the other.
George Ferguson @ 10.32
Have you been to Orkney? A lot of the houses have heat pumps. They’ve been there for many years. OK, it’s a mainly rural area, but it’s has a cold climate, so the heat pumps must be effective?
MaryB says:
14 December, 2023 at 8:55 am
George Ferguson @ 10.32
…. OK, it’s a mainly rural area, but it’s has a cold climate, so the heat pumps must be effective?
They do work MaryB, but there are criteria to be met.
If it’s a ground source heat pump, you need land and access to bury the ground loop, from memory, it’s 50m loop buried lower than 2m for every Kw of heat recovered. Alternatively, you can bore straight down to put in a different kind of ground loop, IF the ground allows you, and obviously, you need more tech than a man in a JCB.
The “problem” with geothermal heat systems is thus the primary installation cost, and retrospective installation issues.
The other option is to immerse the “ground” loop into a water course, such as a loch or reservoir… If you’ve got one handy. If you live in a Crannog, you’re laughing.
Furthermore, the system lends itself to continual background use, because it’s not efficient to let it cool down and have to heat itself up on the flick of a switch. Thus it’s underfloor heating which suits it best, which is yet another installation cost, has retrospective complications, and some people don’t actually like underfloor heating. Most people prefer their feet cooler than their heads for comfort and relaxation.
The alternative to geothermal heat pumps are air source heat pumps, which recover the heat from the air, rather than the ground. It’s the same “back-of-a-fridge” heat exchanger principle, but an Air Source heat pump is much, much easier to install, because there’s nothing needs to go below ground, and you can bolt it on to your house like air conditioning.
The problem with an Air Souce heat pump is the volume of air it requires to process to capture enough heat energy from it. It’s a high volume of air, which means you need a significant fan to move it through the heat exchanger, which significantly ups the running cost and also makes them noisy.
How noisy? Well, that depends on whether the damned machine is yours, or your neighbours. lol. I really don’t know. Maybe it’s societal. You tend not to hear US dwellers complaining about the noise of their air conditioning. They
So if your circumstances are fortunate, plenty land, possibly new-build or even community based… These solutions are excellent. But in an urban or inner city situation, there can be issues, difficulties, and neighbours to make life complicated. There’s more “pain” getting a community to adjust, and the figures comparing cost versus benefit make the proposals increasingly less cost effective.
It’s not a magic panacea that’s going to benefit everyone, but it should be taken a lot more seriously, and we should have tuned in to this decades ago.
@Stuart MacKay says:14 December, 2023 at 8:10 am
Good post. I will drop in a few responses.
the Capital Party, formerly called the Labour Party
Another way of looking at it is as the Benefits party, recently merging with the Immigrants party. Cos that’s where the new votes come from. These are the groups both Tory and Labour are chasing. The Tories get the rich ones, and Labour the overwhelming majority of the rest.
Gaza is doing untold damage to western societies
It’s certainly levering open the schisms in western societies, because we have imported so many who are blindly partisan. But these schisms were always going to open eventually. You would think that the 50% of our indigenous populations who are women would be a bit concerned about us importing a faith-based world view that lumps them as permanently second class citizens. But so far, they seem to still be mostly clinging to the “just be kind” mantra.
the middle-class votes and the working-class votes
The middle classes are in steep decline, but then so are the working classes, with both merging to form the rising benefits class. That trend is just gonna accelerate as AI and automation sweep entire categories of employment away.
Kemi Badenoch isn’t saying anything very clever but she’s being made to look like a genius.
The ‘stonewalled’ ‘trans cultist’ or whatever they are called have no argument.
What is the position with politicians being cancelled?
Had Kemi Badenoch been in any other job she would been ‘cancelled’.
I can’t say personal abuse bothers me that much. I’ve had my fair share of it on here.
What does bother me is ‘the dark sarcasm in the classroom’ and the constant flame baiting from Norkolk.
These wind-up merchants are my downfall.
@ MaryB
Orkney isn’t that cold as it is a relatively small island surrounded by ocean which keeps the temperatures from dropping to very cold levels. Also worth remembering that ocean temperatures changes lag approximately 2 months or so behind the seasonal weather temps as the sea takes time to cool and warm. This creates a thermal cushion of sorts.
Similarly areas around the coast of mainland Scotland do not get as cold as areas that are inland for the same reason.
Today Orkney is 5 degrees warmer than where I live. We had minus 22C a few years back.
Nobody is arguing that heatpumps don’t work, but they only work properly and efficiently in an appropriate installation. If they are fitted to properties that are not thermally efficient due to a lack of insulation and double glazed windows, then they struggle to create and maintain the warmth in the building because the heat is leaking out almost as quick as the heatpump can create it. Hence the near constant running of the pump outwith its designed efficiency zone.
Heatpumps are sized so their output matches heat demand, but the first thing that should be done to a property is to improve its thermal efficiency by properly insulating it. Yes, you could install a heatpump with a larger heat output to compensate for crap thermal efficiency of a property, but that really ain’t the sensible option as it will use and cost more in energy to run it.
The other aspect is that all this greenwashing kit is supposedly to decarbonise heating. Hello, a reminder that Scotland’s leccy is already pretty much always generated through renewables and every house already has a grid connection. The answer is simple…
Well it is unless you think it’s great that we just continue to allow the current energy setup where foreign corporates extort massive profits whilst we pay high unit prices; And using up loads of highly refined mineral resources to manufacture complex (and effectively disposable items because good luck getting ten years out of it) equipment in far flung lands where industries are often powered by fossil fuels, then shipping all this kit around the planet on bunker fuel burning vessels to be installed in unsuitable properties at a significant cost carried by taxpayer and individual, then crack on with the madness.
@JOHN MAIN
GAZA, playground for the purblind.
Pace John MILTON
If Lá Main is having paranoid fantasies of Sharia Law taking over his world, maybe he should look into the Talmudic Noahide Laws.
JM’s hero Javier Milei’s first trip abroad after election was to offer thanks at the grave of Rabbi Schneerson, founder of Chabad, a group to which Ivanka Trump has converted and which is often to be found in the company of Presidents in Washington and Moscow.
@Dan says:14 December, 2023 at 10:50 am
foreign corporates extort massive profits whilst we pay high unit prices
The issue with electricity prices is that most energy sources are essentially fungible, with the result that all energy prices trend towards the maximum, at least where supply is finite.
The solution needs coercive legislation, forcing the suppliers to provide, e.g. domestic electricity, at a lower price than the current market will pay. That’s also known as forcing commercial entities to give up on profit or even sell at a loss.
I recall that shortly after the war started, the Germans were proposing to institute a crash legislative program to decouple electricity prices from other energy prices. I have absolutely no idea if they ever succeeded, but if they did, we at least know it’s theoretically feasible here too.
using up loads of highly refined mineral resources to manufacture complex (and effectively disposable items
That’s a great description of the battery-powered vehicle madness too. The rush to transition to that new, difficult to maintain, unwieldy and frankly substandard technology is a crystal clear example of how big multinationals have forced the narrative to provide themselves with stonking profit-making and employment trashing opportunities, at our expense.
All that was ever needed was to perfect the synthesis of liquid gasolene, kerosene and diesel equivalents from widely available, sustainable precursor chemicals, using cheap, renewable, electricity.
Then we could all have kept our cars, the refuelling infrastructure, the trained networks of technicians and employment, and the western manufacturers could have kept their technological leads, massive numbers of jobs, and important export industries.
And on a day out in the motor, we punters could have kept 5-minute fuel stops and said F Off to range anxiety.
@TURABDIN says:14 December, 2023 at 10:57 am
Good one! I had to do some research to understand your post.
In the circumstances, “playground” might not be the most apt word though.
“Sandbox” has a couple of suitable meanings, one literal, another modern and technical.
North Chiel
Hear, hear!
Sturgeon & Blackford will never be forgiven for their deceit. They achieved fck all, not one single concession, yet turned up for work like a fcking idiot for more pelters at WM instead of acting. A complete embarrassment.
The media can shield Sturgeon all they like but the people won’t. 9 yrs of only feathering their own nests.
I hope the SNP is completely wiped out at the next election & take the Greens with them.
Sturgeons minions that are left don’t have a clue either. They’re simply there for the salaries & side jobs.
What exactly is the point of Flynn? Another fcking waste of everyone’s time & seat shuffling for absolutely nothing.
Barstewards.
Fun fact
Theodore Hertzl proposed two possible areas for a Yewish homeland – P4lestine and Pategonia.
Javier Milei is about to sell his country to the IMF in return for a US dollar currency system.
A lot of the players in this game have 404 ancestry. 404 has been sold to Blackrock.
Maybe the first State ever to do a midnight flit?
I am totally bewildered by comments, decisions and actions taken by leading politicians especially from the Tories.
They have left morality, common sense and justice far behind them.
David Cameron, the run away from Brexit PM who tried to acquire tax payers money for a dodgy bank for a personal fee of £60 million has made the following statement on X as our Foreign Minister-
Israeli extremist settlers responsible for violence against Palestinians in the West Bank will be banned from the U.K.
Working through this I’d ask why he isn’t bothered that Israelis are occupying and controlling stolen land that belongs to Palatine and why they are building homes for Israelis on this land.
By violence he deliberately avoids the serial murder of Palestinians.
As the Israeli Government and Army are not too bothered about Killing Palestinians there is no action taken against the perpetrators.
How will Cameron find out the names of the killers as the Israelis are not noting them down?
Why does Cameron think that someone living and working over there willing to invest in building on stolen land and capable of murdering to establish a home wants to relocate to the U.K.
He just isn’t interested in the innocents being killed other than it’s unsettling for both Israelis and Palestinians.
Well one is settled in a new home and the other settled in a grave.
These politicians need to be imprisoned as they pose a serious risk to the public and morality
@Meganser and George Ferguson.
Here is an article from Mondays Guardian. Pay attention to the first two paragraphs which mention the riots in Dublin and blame them on the far Right and toxic masculinity but make no mention whatsoever of the stabbings of the women and children, same with the comments below the article. There is a media blackout on the conditions of the victims of the stabbings. The boyfriend of the teacher who was murdered by an immigrant in Ireland whilst she was out jogging released a victim statement saying that as the murderer of his girlfriend had multiple previous for sexual offences in his own country he should not have been admitted to Ireland where he had spawned five children without any work record. The media chose to either not report on his statement or censor it to one line without mentioning any of the uncomfortable details. Anyone who did publish his statement was branded as either far Right or in league with the far Right, one of the activists masquerading as a journalist at the Herald did a recent hit piece on Conor McGregor who, purely coincidentally, had published the statement on his X account.
https://archive.ph/vJoRq
With regard to immigration into Ireland, look up Peter Sutherland. He went from working at Goldman Sachs, same as Sunak and Macron, to somehow being a main mover and shaker for mass immigration into Ireland for the EU and stated that the main role of the EU should be to undermine homogeneity amongst its member states.
Who was it who suggested Hong Kongers should be given the Isle of Mull? c.1997
Was it anyone significant?
Hands up who wishes wee jobby ‘John Main’ would fcuk off.
Even for a week, gie’s a break?
Smug, satisfied little Tory w*nker.
See he’s started posting garbage on Craig Murray’s site, too.
His bumchum ASA is comedy gold, at least.
Main, who claims to know everything about everything, can’t even tell us where our money went.
@Anton Decadent says:14 December, 2023 at 1:38 pm
That’s a great article and I really enjoyed reading it.
Whilst in general sympathy with many of the points made, I did wonder at the distinguished author’s failure to join some of the dots to see the full picture.
Start with the statement that the anti-immigrant sentiment is falsely being stoked by the housing crisis.
Factor in the idea of writing the right to a home into the constitution.
Then virtue signal by indicating that open borders is the only show in town.
Realists who are aware that open borders and generous benefits eventually become unsustainable can already see the crystal clear problem with the constitutional right to a home. But virtue signalers never can and never will.
I guess it’s up to the Irish to get a grip by chucking out their politicians and getting new ones.
I watched a documentary on the murder of the jogger.
The perpetrator had no prior criminal record.
The Dublin riots were about censorship & new censorship laws giving police extreme new laws to enter people’s homes to see what they’re doing, reading, sharing online.
Crazy sentences for failure to comply & give police passwords..
Wtf!
It is far right but not immigration. It was immigrants who stepped in to help the teacher, It’s moving to the extreme all in the name of the *common good* which is getting people angry.
Probably not Sir Lachlan Maclean, chief of Clan MacLean, and owner of Duart Castle.
Dan says:
14 December, 2023 at 10:50 am
. If they are fitted to properties that are not thermally efficient due to a lack of insulation and double glazed windows, then they struggle to create and maintain the warmth in the building because the heat is leaking out almost as quick as the heatpump can create it. Hence the near constant running of the pump outwith its designed efficiency zone…
Hmmm… not going so far as to disagree with you Dan, but it can be more complicated.
The typical stone wall isn’t typically 550mm thick for stability, but because that mass of wall with a porous lime mortar is the product of centuries of evolution, and it’s designed to both soak up external precipitation to then dry out again, while also allowing moisture from the interior, steam, humidity etc..
To function as intended, that stone wall needs a bit of temperature itself to maintain the gradient of moisture always moving towards the exterior.
It’s not a done deal however. There’s SPAB report suggests a warm stone wall actually encourages dampness, which seem counterintuitive, but it’s my belief that a warm wall holds a higher humidity moisture content, which turns into moisture when the wall cools overnight. Too much, and you outstrip the wall’s resilience to cope and problems occur.
The point is, not all “heat loss” is actually a loss at all, but heat energy making a contribution to the fabric’s wider stability and longevity.
This is why some folks run into problems firing masses of insulation on internal stone surfaces, because they deny the stonework the core temperature it relies on. Sitting colder by default, the wall’s dew point is forever much closer towards the interior rather than the exterior where it should be. It’s not simply a loss of heat, but it’s keeping your masonry healthy and functional.
Thermal performance and U-value is simply too narrow an appraisal to really do justice to traditional properties.
The “big” change in our building fabric isn’t traditional method becoming obsolete, but the seismic change in attitudes and costs towards paying for heat energy. That’s been the reason for so much stigma attached to traditional properties and why we have lost countless wonderful properties which should never have been demolished.
Another issue is the historic role of a porous Lime render, which the Victorians decided stone walls didn’t need, but it was there for a reason.
When government & police are more concerned with censorship online, rather than more important shit like knife crime & criminality, we’re on a path to ruin.
3,000 arrests made in the UK, from dogs giving salutes to ppl sharing an LGB meme to sharing song lyrics of a rap song ffs!
All ended in a criminal record & community service. The meme person was arrested for….
**Drum roll**
‘Causing someone anxiety’
WTAF?!
Who is setting these rules? Who decides what causes *anxiety*
Irish laws will now hand out 12 month prison sentences for people’s online activities & failure to comply with police in handing over devices & passwords.
Our media is asleep at the wheel & would rather deflect to irrelevant side issues than get outraged they’re being censored.
When the media shut down we’re into Dictatorship.
Call me cynical but if every fecker is doing free community service for telling a roaster online to feck off.. that’s free labour for the government & a culture of curtain twitchers just aching for something to report to the cop shop about their neighbour.
The Gestapo is making a come back.
Look at the amount of arrests Posie Parker (AKA Let women speak/Adult Human Female fame) has received from police. They’re practically stalking her & yet can’t tell her why…
Then we have our very own Craig Murray.
Maybe Ireland is having some backlash against immigration but what’s really angered people is the new Irish laws..
What does the murderous act by an individual immigrant tell about the immigrants in Ireland as a whole?
Or, for that matter, what might it suggest about the many Irish emigrants in other countries?
What does the violent action following the murder tell about the Irish population as a whole?
Dan says: at 10:50 am
@ MaryB
“Nobody is arguing that heatpumps don’t work, but they only work properly and efficiently in an appropriate installation. If they are fitted to properties that are not thermally efficient due to a lack of insulation and double glazed windows, then they struggle to create and maintain the warmth in the building because the heat is leaking out almost as quick as the heatpump can create it. Hence the near constant running of the pump outwith its designed efficiency zone.
Heatpumps are sized so their output matches heat demand, but the first thing that should be done to a property is to improve its thermal efficiency by properly insulating it. Yes, you could install a heatpump with a larger heat output to compensate for crap thermal efficiency of a property, but that really ain’t the sensible option as it will use and cost more in energy to run it.”
——————————–
Dan is one of the few folk on here that understands what heating means. If you live in a draughty cave you need a bonfire to keep warm, insulate it then you only need some candles.
When I lived in Aarhus Denmark, my house had double-glazing, under floor heating, was well insulated and connected to the local district heating system. This was the middle of the 1980’s..!
Norway, Sweden and Finland are very cold places in Winter but they’ve been using heatpumps for decades.
My flat near Frankfurt in a 6 flat building has a heatpump, a Swedish NIBE F2120, 3 feet away through a hole in the wall to the conversion units. It’s quiet and has no problems keeping the building warm or with warm water.
The problem in Scotland/UK is that most buildings aren’t properly insulated, it’s like chucking money out of the window. First priority is getting your house insulated, which saves you money and starts to keep you warm more easily and then decide which heating system you might need to improve your situation even better.
Sorry to repeat some of what Dan said, but there are too many people on here that still live in caves. 🙁
Some houses aren’t suitable for insulation.
The SNP governments of the last decade, which all here seem to agree is inept and corrupt, were voted into office by almost everybody on this thread. They’re the governments YOU chose.
And yet very few here own up to it. Instead, they blame shadowy foreign (?) influencers, or the (alleged) immense skill of Sturgeon and Yousaf to fool the world (including Alex Salmond, who helped promote them to power).
As Shakespeare pointed out in Julius Caesar, “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves.”
When looking for someone to blame for Scotland’s current political corruption, a lot of people here should look in the mirror.
James says: at 2:23 pm
“Hands up who wishes wee jobby ‘John Main’ would fcuk off.
Even for a week, gie’s a break?
Smug, satisfied little Tory w*nker.
See he’s started posting garbage on Craig Murray’s site, too.
His bumchum ASA is comedy gold, at least.
Main, who claims to know everything about everything, can’t even tell us where our money went.”
—————————————
No James, the strange yoons here are always good for a laugh. They think they know better and love telling Scotland it’s just crap.
We should kneel to their better judgment….! HaHaHa ? ?
Ladies and Gentlemen, the reality that is England:
It’s politically corrupt and backward as a banana republic
Unelected Minsters, bare-faced liars everywhere
Richly Sunpacked, Boris the Covid killer
Infested with sex affairs, Tory wealth
Totally incompetent Governments, infested by Eton
Money grabbing, pretendy King and hangers-on
State media/BBC propaganda run (Goebbels was jealous)
The economy is run down/broken or sold off to foreigners
Swimming in debt and getting worse with the Tories
Privatisation doesn’t work, trains. Water. Energy.
Brexit a complete failure, laughing stock of the world
Billions of pounds wasted or siphoned off
Pygmies on the world stage
NHS and social services barely alive, Food banks
Rivers and seas just sewage dumps
Councils going bankrupt, see Birmingham
Folk moving to Scotland in droves for a better life
Jealous of Whisky, a billion dollar business
Housing crisis and getting worse
Pensions lowest in Europe/developed world
And, and, and……..
“Show us the money” says Main..!
They only want us to show it because they don’t have any money left and want to grab ours.
If you don’t mind, Scotland can and should go its own way, WE and the rest of the world won’t miss you. ?
Dundee Scot..
Who did you vote for & have they achieved anything?
The UK government, both Tories, are hardly shining examples eh?
Lazy freeloader BoJo helped himself to the treasury while people died. The more the merrier..
Starmer stabbed Corbyn in the back & thinks men can have a vagina.
Lib dumbs? LOL
So, fess up – who did you voted for & what have they achieved?
@sam says:14 December, 2023 at 2:59 pm
what might it suggest about the many Irish emigrants in other countries?
My first guess, given the well documented immense Irish diaspora, is that they enthusiastically exterminated the indigenous inhabitants of these other countries, everywhere they had the capacity to do so.
Not that I’m singling out the Irish specifically, far from it. No, they were enthusiastically joined by the Scots, English, Welsh, Spanish (very enthusiastically), French, Germans, Norwegians, Swedes, etc.
Makes you think, eh?
What does the violent action following the murder tell about the Irish population as a whole?
Dunno. What do the the Navajo and Apache Wars tell us?
I’ll answer cos I don’t expect that you will. Indigenous populations can tolerate a certain level of inwards migration, but that toleration is easily swamped when the migration level reaches a certain tipping point. And that’s a constant, across most nations, and most of history for the past two millenia.
Many western nations are now at, or past, that tipping point.
@ Breeks
Aye, we’ve been here before with regard to discussing differences in older and newer construction techniques. And agree that like most things there are always anomalies and a one size fits all approach is not always going to work.
Before the frosts arrived this autumn I managed to get 2/3rds of the front face of my property re-pointed properly with lime mortar, and it has really brought back the character of the stonework.
It took a fair bit of work though as the bad cement pointing that someone had smeared over the stone joints sometime in the past chiselled out easily enough, but it had blocked the moisture wicking properties of the original lime mortar joints so the stones had held moisture that over the years meant frost spalling damage of pretty much all the stone faces had occurred, so they all got re-dressed to remove the loose layer.
There were around half a dozen stones that I was not happy with due to them being damaged too much or of being a poor grade when originally sourced, so I removed them and dressed replacements to size. The great thing is the houses here were built with locally quarried stone back in late 1700s, and there is still loads of that same stone lying around the area so it’s easy to source.
I also created vent apertures low down in the wall to ensure the cavity between original external wall and internal insulation layer and studding has airflow right up the wall to the sarking boards of the roof where it can breath out so there is less tendency for dew point damp to form.
From that you’ll know that I am effectively building an insulated box within the existing older walls rather than using the thick original external walls as a thermal battery.
I made the decision to go that way because this area can be a really cold little frost pocket, and the amount of energy it would take to try to keep thick stone walls warm when it can be brutally cold outside for months would be too much to have to contend with.
One thing that made a very noticeable difference was installing a full damp proof membrane over the entire internal footprint of the building when the ground floor was redone, as this really reduced the moisture content in the air and as a result it doesn’t feel anything like as cold now with the drier air.
Grabbed DB meter and nipped round to other neighbours who are very switched on and techy folk and really did their homework prior to making the decision to go with an ASHP. They knew folk that run a business that is involved in “green” energy stuff. The survey results were that it was marginal in return of investment terms for them to go with an ASHP, but as they plan to make further thermal efficiency improvements to the property they did go with one. However they spent an extra 2 grand over the cost of a basic ASHP machine so they could get a Vaillant ASHP which are renowned for being a very efficient design and quiet.
They are also a very organised household with regard to the overall installation setup and the programming and usage times of the ASHP so that it’s efficiency is optimised.
Their ASHP started up and the noise emitted barely rose above ambient daytime noise level of 42db. It is way quieter than some of the other models installed nearby.
@Graf Midgehunter says:14 December, 2023 at 4:25 pm
Folk moving to Scotland in droves for a better life
Uh oh. If you were smarter there’s some dots right there for you to join.
“Show us the money” says Main..!
They only want us to show it because they don’t have any money left and want to grab ours
Sounds like a great new campaign plan for on the doorsteps. “Vote for us, but we can’t tell you why – it’s a big secret.” Mind to report back how that goes down.
If you don’t mind, Scotland can and should go its own way, WE and the rest of the world won’t miss you.
As a lifetime resident Sovereign Scot, I’m verra comfortable where I am. I only have one single vote – it’s not me holding you back.
Soz to have to break it to you, but Occam’s razor says you must have much bigger, much more fundamentally insurmountable problems.
If I were you I’d start by getting shot of yer pretendy FM, but you’re not going to be telt, are ye?
Fine, but that brings us back to here:
Folk moving to Scotland in droves for a better life
Uh oh.
Geri says: at 3:52 pm
“Some houses aren’t suitable for insulation.”
——————-
Unless a house is basically a ruin falling down, in the middle of a bog, then all houses can be renovated. It’s just a question of the amount needed to reach the required standard.
@Geri says:14 December, 2023 at 4:31 pm
fess up – who did you vote for
There’s a bit of me that thinks that if we really are now living in a post-democratic society, then I may as well vote for you, Geri.
Start your own PolityMcPolityFace party and it’s a deal. Promise.
Breeks says:at 2:54 pm
“The “big” change in our building fabric isn’t traditional method becoming obsolete, but the seismic change in attitudes and costs towards paying for heat energy. That’s been the reason for so much stigma attached to traditional properties and why we have lost countless wonderful properties which should never have been demolished.”
————————-
You’re so right Breeks.
So many beautiful old buildings demolished to make way for soul destroying glass an’ steel monstrosities.
Not bombed to rubble in war but for quick profits.
Completely off topic (but who’ll notice that on WOS) great to see Neil Hanvey raising the question of whether Mr Bliar should lose his knighthood.
Of course he won’t, but nice to hope that it may cause him a moments irritation to be reminded that the blood on his wee, pink handies remains.
Ha! New record for noisy ASHP in my village. Just nipped out as I heard it firing up, though it’s easy to mistake it for a helicopter coming into land…
Standing a few meters away it cranks out a mighty impressive 59db! For comparison my 20 year old diesel car ticking over puts out 63db.
Anton Decadent @ 1:38 pm
“With regard to immigration into Ireland, look up Peter Sutherland. He went from working at Goldman Sachs, same as Sunak and Macron, to somehow being a main mover and shaker for mass immigration into Ireland for the EU and stated that the main role of the EU should be to undermine homogeneity amongst its member states.”
National identity and national consciousness is the only bulwark against Imperialism (Edward Said). Population displacement is a colonial procedure that destroys indigenous culture (Albert Memmi).
National consciousness is built on a peoples ain culture and language (Frantz Fanon). Imperialism is about imposing an alien culture and language on a people, obliterating and replacing their national culture and language, in turn changing their identity, and values. Displacement is one way to do this, cultural assimilation another, tho both procedures can be used in tandem, as we see in Scotland.
Why daes fowk think oor doun-hauder (Imperial oppressor) nivver lairnt Scots bairns thair ain mother tongue Scots langage whit gies us oor identity? Linguicide is the death of a language, and the demise of a national culture soon follows the loss of a peoples language.
https://salvo-cor.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/THEORETICAL+CASE+FOR+SCOTTISH+INDEPENDENCE.pdf
The same commenters who post semi-literate comments here telling us what Scotland should do, are the same commenters (past SNP loyalists) who also claim they were “deceived” by SNP mediocrities such as Sturgeon.
If they were that stupid in the past, why should anyone give credence to what they say today?
John Main says:at 4:45 pm
“@Graf Midgehunter says:14 December, 2023 at 4:25 pm
“Folk moving to Scotland in droves for a better life
Uh oh. If you were smarter there’s some dots right there for you to join.”
——
Oh dear Johnny, England’s turned into a sh**hole (see list), Scotland’s not perfect but still much better than England for movers. Which is why we need independence to regulate our own affairs, we’ll help the newcomers turn into happy scotsmen and women.
———————————————-
“Show us the money” says Main..!”
“They only want us to show it because they don’t have any money left and want to grab ours”
——-
“Sounds like a great new campaign plan for on the doorsteps. “Vote for us, but we can’t tell you why – it’s a big secret.” Mind to report back how that goes down.”
——-
Oh dear Johnny. Is that all you could come up with to deflect…?? Bit pathetic don’t ya think.
——————————————————-
“If you don’t mind, Scotland can and should go its own way, WE and the rest of the world won’t miss you.”
——
As a lifetime resident Sovereign Scot, I’m verra comfortable where I am. I only have one single vote – it’s not me holding you back.”
——-
Sure you’re comfortable, you live in Scotland which is much better than the sh**hole of England. (See list.)
Yes you are holding us back, you’re a Britnat/Yoon who prefers to lick the English boots.
———————————————————-
“Soz ………………… problems.
If I were you I’d start by getting shot of yer pretendy FM, but you’re not going to be telt, are ye?”
——-
Johnny, you’re not really sure where you are…!? Are you?
I’m here on WOS, member of ALBA, SALVO, Liberation.Scot and anything else that will rid Scotland of the “pretendy FM”, the woke infested SNP and Britnat yoons who prefer to bend the knee to the sh**hole (see list) of England.
Alf baird at 5:51 pm.
“Why daes fowk think oor doun-hauder (Imperial oppressor) nivver lairnt Scots bairns thair ain mother tongue Scots langage whit gies us oor identity? Linguicide is the death of a language, and the demise of a national culture soon follows the loss of a peoples language.”
Still rabble-rousing with the ‘colonialism’ nonsense. Are we to suppose that MI5 (oft-mentioned here, hilariously) are preventing mothers and nurseries from educating their children in the ways of the Scot? And why do MI5 seemingly accommodate the Welsh in that respect? I would suggest it’s up to Scots if they want to learn.
@Graf Midgehunter says:14 December, 2023 at 6:21 pm
You’ve defo got a bit of a thing for bending the knee and licking boots. And shouting “Yoon” in the iron-clad certainty that’s a winning card in all debates.
As I wrote, ye’re naw tae be telt.
Scotland’s not perfect but still much better than England for movers … we’ll help the newcomers turn into happy scotsmen and women
And the reality of what those movers actually mean is still eluding you too.
I almost want to explain it to you, but then as I wrote, ye’re naw tae be telt.
Maybes you better ask a grown up to sit you down and tell you the facts of Indy.
One final thing. It’s pretendy FM, not “pretendy FM”. Putting it in double quotes makes it look like you disagree with me – and that he’s actually a real Scottish FM.
He’s naw, soz, and that’s partially on you, and not at all on me.
Aye, the rioting had nothing whatsoever to do with immigration*. I mean everyone loves a healthy slab of immigration, don’t they? Like when people flit from, say, England into Scotland? Say, maybe you could stand at Gretna Green and hand oot blankets to the new arrivals 😀
Over in Ireland that’s been the case for six (I think) years. Closer to home, do you remember the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000? We have to thank Tony “assume power and then almost immediately declare an amnesty for all illegal immigrants” Blair for that one. Still, things can only get better, eh?
* except it most definitely did. Do you see?
What the feck happened to Neil Oliver.
He went from one of the most detestable Nawbag cunts I have ever encountered to coming out with stuff that is this…
youtube.com/watch?v=DigngmInQDc
Most of the immigrants/refugees are from Ukraine, fleeing the war. What’s the problem – the immigrants ( the first people to take on and disarm the attacker were immigrants) or the far right in Ireland?
From Irish Times
“At 5.22pm on Thursday, a voice message from an account called “Kill all immigrants” went into a private, invitee-only Telegram group titled “Enough is Enough”.
“They can’t control us all. Let’s have little groups splintering off, doing what we got to do. Seven o’clock, be in town. Everyone bally up, tool up. And any f**king g**o, foreigner, anyone, just kill them. Just f**king kill them,” the message said.
“Let’s get this on the news, let’s show the f**king media that we’re not a pushover. That no more foreigners are allowed into this poxy country.”
By that stage, less than four hours after a stabbing attack on schoolchildren which left a five-year-old girl with serious injuries, tensions were already building in the city centre.
Shortly after word of the attack spread online, much of it containing false information, crowds gathered near the scene of the stabbing on Parnell Square East, pushing a line of gardaí back and disrupting the crime scene.
Gardaí dressed in full riot gear attempted to keep the crowds back while masked men kicked their shields and verbally abused them. One black garda attempting to preserve the crime scene came in for particular abuse. Protesters racially abused the officer and told him he was not Irish.
It took less than 45 minutes for news of the stabbing to start circulating on far-right social media channels, often accompanied by the false information that one or more of the victims had died.
This soon morphed into calls for people to take to the streets. On Friday, in the wake of unprecedented violence and rioting in Dublin city centre, some of those posters deleted these calls to action.
“Everyone city centre tonight 7pm no excuses everyone out enough is enough,” said anti-immigration activist Gavin Pepper, who describes himself as a local election candidate, in a now-deleted post on X, formerly Twitter.
Pepper was present at the infamous demonstration outside Leinster House in September which featured a noose, and attended a protest in the city centre in May that ended with a migrant camp on Sandwith Street being set alight.”
14 December, 2023 at 4:25 pm
Graf Midgehunter says:
‘Ladies and Gentlemen, the reality that is England . . . [a kind of waking dream dystopia fantasy]’
Yeah, but at least you can get a decent pint of beer.
However, you’ve convinced me. Amazing that the Reverend Campbell is still in that total shithole that is Bath and Wells. So packing my bags right now; East Kilbride here I come – I hear it is paradise there!
Looks like 404 is joining the EU. Maybes Rev Stu could consider lifting his embargo on naming what might soon be an EU country.
I find myself conflicted. No friend of the EU, I am nevertheless impressed that they have made what may be a make-or-break decision for its future. I can respect that at least.
I’m guessing too that a few of the regulars on here, staunch not-for-turning EUphiles up to now, will now be changing their tune, because while they like the EU, they like Russtiland even more.
As was pointed out earlier today, the bill for 404 membership is estimated at 190 billion euros. Should iScotland ever decide to join the EU, we will have to shoulder our share.
At the very least, the news of 404’s pending membership should, once and for all, drive the final nail into the coffin of Yousaf’s twofer offer – vote Yes to Indy and get EU membership included for free.
Scotland’s pining for the EU, if it ever existed at all, must have finally evaporated after today. Even Yousaf will have to now accept that and do yet another U-turn.
Innarestin times.
John Main at 8:54 pm
“Looks like 404 is joining the EU.”
Talks about the possibility, is all. Just the EU saying, “Grrr,” to Russia and spoiling for a fight they couldn’t win. Remainers pooh-poohed the idea that the EU wanted an army but they really do. Alf Baird talks dismissively of imperialism but the EU is an archetype.
John Main’s good, but he’s no Pete Wishart.
@Southernbystander says:14 December, 2023 at 8:53 pm
East Kilbride here I come – I hear it is paradise there!
It has its attractions, but to call it a paradise is maybes taking things too far.
It’s a friendly, welcoming kinda place though, with some awesome beers. You have to track them down, but that’s half the fun.
Graf Midgehunter 4:45
Mine isn’t. It’s over 150 yrs old.
I’ve had two different companies say it’s not suitable.
It’s not a ruin or a bog. Just old lol
404 joining the EU is beyond parody, the Russkies are already fulminating about the proximity of NATO countries to it’s borders
The Flying Iron of Doom
It’s new laws they are passing through their parliament now. Not six years ago.
If Ireland is going daft over immigration who can blame them?
The last feckers that turned up there caused a war, stole land & have never left..
James Jones
The EU already have an army. It’s called the Yankee doodle NATO..
It’s in every country.
Do you think the yanks would tolerate an alternative?
Geri says at 9:49 pm
“Do you think the yanks would tolerate an alternative (to NATO) ?”
The Yanks have become lukewarm about ‘paying for the protection of Europe,’ as they see it, and the EU is keen to shed the US influence and become a fully-fledged ‘power.’
Breeks,
some very interesting stuff from you today about heating and old buildings.
I’ll offer something else: humidity. I try to keep the humidity inside between 40% and 60%, which one can do with opening and closing windows. Without being a building engineer, my understanding is that dry rot won’t occur above 40%, and that mould won’t form below 60%, so it’s a bit of a sweet spot.
I’ve bought hygrometers for each of the 3 floors and the cellar (they ain’t that expensive), and I’ve not had any issues with damage or mould in the last 30 years. Another good buy was a dehumidifier, and it’s easy to put humidity in to a room: a pot plant is normally enough, or boil a kettle.
Southernbystander says: at 8:53 pm
14 December, 2023 at 4:25 pm
“Graf Midgehunter says:
‘Ladies and Gentlemen, the reality that is England . . . [a kind of waking dream dystopia fantasy]’
Yeah, but at least you can get a decent pint of beer.
However, you’ve convinced me. Amazing that the Reverend Campbell is still in that total shithole that is Bath and Wells. So packing my bags right now; East Kilbride here I come – I hear it is paradise there!”
—————————————-
As you will have noticed, everything I mentioned was about politics, policies, administration, the state of the social systems and the downright rip-off of the population in general.
Many of the towns, villages as well as a lot of the countryside belong to some of the finest that you’ll get anywhere.
Bath, Buxton, York, the stunning Yorkshire Dales, Lake District, the Moors.
Before I moved abroad (because of my future wife) I lived in the Peak District Nat. Park.
Scotland is a beautiful place but is likewise fkd up because of the politics of the cowardly SNP, Britnats and WM.
BTW, Germany is not too bad when it comes to beer as you will know and when I need something really good, I just pop over to Belgium for a Closter beer and pomme frits..! 🙂
I was told by structural engineer that dry rot can occur anywhere & is the worst kind because it doesn’t need anything to survive.
Geri says:at 9:34 pm
Graf Midgehunter 4:45
Mine isn’t. It’s over 150 yrs old.
I’ve had two different companies say it’s not suitable.
It’s not a ruin or a bog. Just old lol
———————————
🙂 RIP Rust in peace
James Jones
I doubt they’d give up all that GDP..
They’re already badgering 404 to sign up.
Regardless of breaking int treaties not to expand.
I think the EU army was a Brexit myth. The yanks wouldn’t have it.
@Graf Midgehunter says:14 December, 2023 at 10:17 pm
Before I moved abroad
Astonishing.
Channeling your inner Sean Connery were you? Not coming back until the Stuart restoration? Her who must be obeyed says naw, or maybes nein? Don’t tell us the Scottish penny in the pound income tax drove you out.
You surely won’t object if I refer to you as ASA 2 going forwards? Short for A Scot Abroad’s number 2.
Question for Alf, if he’s reading.
Whats the Scots equivalent of Plastic Paddy?
Geri says:
14 December, 2023 at 10:33 pm
I was told by structural engineer that dry rot can occur anywhere & is the worst kind because it doesn’t need anything to survive.
Aye. It’s true. I lost my shirt to dry rot.
I’m not talking metaphorically.
It looks disgusting as well.
Like some of the yoons on here.
It’s delicious for Alf to confirm what everyone expected..
Scotland just simply withdraws it’s majority of MPs from WM to dissolve the union.
Just in time for the next General Elections…
Well, it worked for Sinn Féin… oh, wait.
Watching Question Time I must say that Fiona Bruce is worth every penny of the £400,000 per annum that the license holders are forced to hand over or face imprisonment.
She really does her research to turn everything pro Union and anti-independence.
The show claims to be from Kelso which is in Scotland but 4 out of 5 of the audience graced with questions are English.
I did predict that but there really is no shame in the covert corruption of Westminsters puppet the BBC.
I have “Question Time” on.
Does anyone think that before politicians are invited on TV, to represent themselves, their party, their constituents and their country, that they should be taught how to use their language of choice properly? Seeing as how she’s on a salary 5 times mine and I manage ok.
Tonight, Angela Constance stated,
“The last poll I actually seen…”
NO!!!
Interestingly, the sub-titles, which lag behind, corrected it to,
The last poll I have actually seen…
Protecting their asset?
The statement should have been,
The last poll I have actually seen…
or
The last poll I actually saw…
Displays a sheer ignorance of her language of choice.
Yep, it’s annoying when they caunt talk proply
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67701507
“Former minister David Davis has confirmed he intervened to stop an attack on a rough sleeper near Parliament on Tuesday evening.
The veteran Tory MP said he stepped in when he saw two men “kicking seven bells” out of another man on the floor.”
He said the attackers “were picking on a guy for a laugh, getting off on beating a guy who wasn’t hitting back”.
“They had no sense of restraint, had they not been stopped they might well have killed him,” he said.
“It was deeply disturbing to think about what would have happened if we hadn’t been there.
“David was assertive and held them back but remained calm and composed throughout. He never laid a finger on them no matter how many times one of them tried to hit him.”
There’s good Tory Politicians out there. And he’s a Brexiteer. Top class from David Davis. The truth teller. And freedom fighter. Respect has gone up even more levels. I can’t wait until we find out the details of the secret redacted documents relating to the Alex Salmond conspiracy. It’s good to know there’s good Tories out there in this world.
John Main @ 10:52 pm
“Whats the Scots equivalent of Plastic Paddy?”
John Main?
James Jones
When was Sinn Féin in the treaty of Union between Scotland & England?
I must’ve missed it.
Geri @ 11:14 pm
“Scotland just simply withdraws it’s majority of MPs from WM to dissolve the union.”
Thons aboot the size o hit, Geri. Fesh thaim hame. Gemm ower.
Geri, at 11:14 pm,
I f you really believe that total nonsense about Scotland leaving the union by merely withdrawing some MPs, you are as foolish and weak-minded as the man who lied to you about it.
Geri, at 11:14 pm,
If you really believe that total nonsense about Scotland leaving the union by merely withdrawing some MPs, you are as foolish and weak-minded as the man who lied to you about it.
Ass
Thatcher even confirmed it in her book the Dowdy years. Page 624.. is she a liar too?
‘As a Nation, they have an undoubted right to self determination. Thus far they have exercised that right by joining & remaining in the Union – Should they determine on independence NO English politician or party would stand in their way however much we might regret their departure’
It’s not a matter of *believing*. It’s documented FACT.
Even common sense tells you…
No Scotland – No Union.
No Union – no United Kingdom.
No Scottish representatives in parly – No UK parliament.
The Union wasn’t magical. It came with non negotiable set of conditions that remain in the treaty.
SNP just need to withdraw their MPs.
If they don’t then they will be replaced by MPs who will.
No ref needed. Simple.
Every. Single. Election.
Scotland can dissolve. Having no representation anywhere in international organisations. That’s a breach right there. So is English twats telling elected officials who Scotland can & can’t speak to without a chaperone. Who made pig shagger mouth almighty? Shouldn’t he be declaring his assets to parliament & what off shore bank he’s hidden it?
Geri,
there’s this thing called “the law”, and by and large, that’s how we as a passel of countries run this thing called the union.
And there’s a problem with your argument. Without having the book that you refer to, I know that Maggie got booted out in 1990, and that something called The Scotland Act 1998 was enacted into law 8 years later.
So it doesn’t matter what Maggie said. The law’s the law, and it dates from 1998. It’s the only legal means for Scotland to leave the union. It’s even been registered with the UN and EU, so no help coming from those directions.
John Main says: at 10:52 pm
“Astonishing.
Channeling your inner Sean Connery were you? Not coming back until the Stuart restoration? Her who must be obeyed says naw, or maybes nein? Don’t tell us the Scottish penny in the pound income tax drove you out.
You surely won’t object if I refer to you as ASA 2 going forwards? Short for A Scot Abroad’s number 2.
Question for Alf, if he’s reading.
Whats the Scots equivalent of Plastic Paddy?”
————————–
Ach Johnny, you’ve been behind the bicycle shed again haven’t you, you’re dribbling….
“ASA 2 going forwards” is a strange name but if it keeps you happy, ya John Main
Looks like the Spanish decided to give the Rangers fans in Seville tonight a bit of a f*cking.
Unknown to fans the Real Betis stadium were implementing a policy of demanding that ID be shown alongside their match ticket else no entry.
However it became worse than that when stadium attendants started denying entry to folks with both valid passports and tickets. Coming the c*nt seems to have been the game and for anyone complaining the cops were on hand to deliver a beating.
And so for many fans the expense of losing three days wages, flights, hotels became a bitter waste of money.
Indeed, it seems the whole thing was an anti foreigner set up because it was only on the day of the match that Rangers were able to advise of extremely restrictive restrictions.
No doubt Gibraltar, the Falklands, and Britain’s belligerent exit from the EU hasn’t helped relation with Spain. But Yeh, not pleasant treatment to British citizens visiting Spain.
Anyway, for the Glasgow Rangers supporters, at least they won, and that is good for Scottish football. And yes, I’d pay the same tribute to Celtic FC.
But aside tonight’s treatment of Scottish fans was appalling. A union dividend perchance.
Ass
The Scotland Act refers to legislative powers of Holyrood. ONLY HOLYROOD.
Westminsters outpost in Scotland.
NOT
1. What happens outside of Holyrood – a devolved administration.
&
2. NOT what happens in the parliament of Great Britain where the treaty of Union resides.
Comprendez?
Regardless of when Thatcher said it. She confirms what we all know. So there you have it straight from a yoons mouth..
BLiar also said it
So did Major..
It’s only recently you yoons & Westminster yoons have bastardised the treaty to mean something it doesn’t.
England has no powers, in law or otherwise, to deny Scotland for leaving the Union.
Another Yoon, David Davis said; there is no treaty that exists where a country can’t ever leave..
So there you have it. Yoons are telling it like it really is..
Remember that next time you go off that we’re liars..
Scotland requires no permission to leave Westminster.
Scotland requires no section 30 to leave the Union.
Willie
Maybe a passport wasn’t adequate. I think it’s ID cards they require. The police can get arsey if you don’t show one.
Bit short notice of Rangers not to advise travelling fans. They should demand a refund.
I know a passport is technically the same thing but foreign countries have their own ways of doing things.
Geri,
the Scotland Act 1998 is the only way that the world will recognise that Scotland can leave the union.
That’s the way it is. If hotheads and idiots in Scotland tried to do it differently, they’d be shown the flat palm. Tell it to the hand, because the head ain’t listening. Particularly if you’ve ignored the accepted legal route and are just farting your trousers off with guff. And that’s what people like you do.
@ Mac 8.07pm, I would think Oliver was reading off a teleprompter, yet he sounded quite convincing for someone who is an establishment shill and is used as bait material by good old aunty when Scotland needs put down and ridiculed
His comments were bang on the money when he was describing Bliar and the scum surrounding him in the fake socialist party
ASA says:
Geri: If you really believe that total nonsense about Scotland leaving the union by merely withdrawing some MPs, you are as foolish and weak-minded as the man who lied to you about it.
Even at “Yours for Scotland,” they’re laughing at Alf Baird for that absurd notion. If SNP MPs choose not to attend Parliament Scotland’s RIGHT to representation remains unchanged. Therefore the Treaty of Union has not been breached.
This latest absurdity reminds me of the child that murdered his parents, and then asked the court for mercy because he was now an orphan.
Ass
**the Scotland Act 1998 is the only way that the world will recognise that Scotland can leave the union.**
Don’t be stupid. The Scotland Act refers to an administration.
A diddly parish council.
Hee-haw to do with the official treaty of Union.
Every. Single. Election IS a legal route. No higher authority than the ballot box.
Scotland will show it’s hand to any Muppet claiming otherwise as clearly they’ll be democracy deniers.
Scotland is in a voluntary political union. Always has been. No one has the authority to deny our exit & no Yoon has authority over Scotlands territory either.
Suck it up buttercup. It’s yoons that are lying & always have with fanciful ideas they’re lord supreme.. they’re not. & The international community isn’t interested in bullshit yoons decided to embellish onto it.
Dundee Scot,
Aye, well (to borrow Baird’s tendency to write paragraphs in a language he doesn’t really understand). There’s nothing like stupidity or representatives grandstanding. It’s what they do.
Geri,
you’re mental, deluded and insane.
Dundee
If they’re laughing it’s cause they’re shitting themselves. Yoons always try (& fail) to mock truth.
If Scotland removes her MPs from Westminster there is no UK parliament & there is no UK. The whole treaty ends.
Ireland is not a kingdom.
Wales is not a Kingdom.
So who is England sharing a kingdom with exactly? Itself.
Rendering the UK parliament & the treaty obsolete. Void.
Treaty dissolved. England can do the exact same. They can exit – they don’t need our permission either or any sec 30 pish which only applies to a diddly administration.
The supreme court even warned of UK consequences. Were they lying now too?
It’s preposterous that a Sovereign Nation needs permission to exit. It’s a fallacy that has no fact in the treaty. Lawyers ain’t interested in he said, she said..only with what was agreed. & Scotland never agreed to be subordinate & under English rule. The opposite in fact & that remains in our constitution – sealed by Scots.
Dundee
Also.. ‘Scotlands *right* remains unchanged’
Scotlands right would be to have the parliament set up as intended & clearly stated in the treaty of Union.
Equal representation on matters relating to the United Kingdom & all of its concerns at home & abroad.
Not MPs depending on size of population & Scottish MPs tucked up in a corner to be outvoted.
& That’s where Xaracen will put you right with regards to parliament seating arrangements or lack of..
The UK certainly wouldn’t be business as usual. Scotland can withdraw it’s MPs until it’s fixed properly or we exit for good through any election.
Ass
Always with the insults. How predictable. We should start a bingo card.
Every.single.election..
Withdraw MPs & it’s game over.
Tick tock..
Geri,
you’ll get no traction with that in the courts, which is what decide things.
You won’t probably get anywhere near the courts unless you’ve a few million in loose change down the back of the sofa. Advocates ain’t cheap.
So don’t be too shouty out on the Buckie, because you ain’t making much sense as it is.
Geri says:
14 December, 2023 at 10:43 pm
I think the EU army was a Brexit myth. The yanks wouldn’t have it…
I have traditionally been a very strong advocate in favour of the EU, but the EU made a huge mistake in delegating its security to the US and NATO. I think perhaps there’s a “boiled frog” component to it, and they should have addressed the matter some time ago, but ignored it.
It was understandable, given the post WW2 realities, but at some point, the priorities of the US changed, and the EU came to be seen as a threat itself, and thus something expendable. The EU was a good thing, just as long as it swore fealty to the US and wasn’t too successful, but it grew too strong and dared to contemplate life without US dependency… case in point, the concept of an EU army.
I believe the UK government then became a willing pawn, putting US interests, (and by association UK interests), ahead of the EU collective interests, and I believe in the early days, Brexit was intended as a blunt threat meant to steer the EU in a particular direction, because departure was unthinkable. As with everything these past 4 decades, this Western / US / UK strategy was fickle, amateurish, and poorly thought out.
The US was being disingenuous with Ruskia all along, instead of normalising relations after the Sov Empire imploded, the US was already plotting and trying to assert dominance. The US was also being disingenuous with the EU however, and shared a common plot for dominance.
With the aggressive wooing of the EU with the US TEPAC Trade Deal, where the American Corporations fancied their chances making billions from EU Healthcare, the EU was less accommodating of US “greed”, and the EU believed the USA needed Europe more than Europe needed the USA. I think the EU was right.
Lukewarm on trade with the US, lukewarm on standards, lukewarm on US food additives, lukewarm on NATO aggression and expansion, lukewarm on US defence… The EU was threatening going off-script.
I believe the concept of Brexit was meant as a hollow threat, designed to keep the EU in its place. But it failed, spectacularly.
I said I used to be a strong advocate of Europe. I was heartened when the EU lacked enthusiasm for US aggression. I was. But I was deeply unsettled by the EU’s complicity with the US over the Minsk Accords, which revealed a level of duplicity in the EU leadership. Once seen, you cannot unsee it. I mean, yes, Europe always had flaws, but this was different. This was bad.
More recently, Ursula Avon-deer-Leyden has done for the EU what Nicola Sturgeon did for Scottish Independence, doing for the EU with NWO Neoliberalism what Sturgeon did for Independence with her Pervert’s Charter, – but the Nordstream sabotage was a wake-up call to the EU members, especially Germany. America’s anti Ruskian interests are dominant over America’s pro European sentiments. The EU’s interests are manifestly expendable.
I think Europe is now at a crossroads. It needs to decide if it’s autonomous and controls its own destiny, or whether it’s America’s bitch and does what it’s told – or else. Funnily enough, I think the US is at a similar crossroads with its support for Zionism.
I think the EU might may the right call. I fear the USA will not.
What a lot of people forget is that the EU fundamentally uses trade to keep the peace and make war unthinkable. That has been its great success; peace, not trade. That’s the EU which I’d support. Von-der-Leyden and her ilk can get to fk.
Breeks at 6.21am:
Thank-you for this cogent account of your thoughts on the EU. Very refreshing to read such a well thought out comment and one that doesn’t attempt to masquerade as ‘fact’.
A complex subject but an enlightening account. Certainly one to share.
@Breeks says:15 December, 2023 at 6:21 am
I think Europe is now at a crossroads
Me too. It has to decide if it will roll over and accept the military annexation and effective enslavement of half a dozen of its eastern members, or grow a pair and fight back. It is very much aware that if it loses those countries to the new Russti Imperium, then it’s game over for the EU in its current form, perhaps in any form.
You’re ignoring the existential threat of the Great Replacement due to climate change, so I will too.
I think the US is at a similar crossroads with its support for Zionism
Could be. CRT has cemented the position of Jews as “white adjacent” so much like Asians, they can be legitimately persecuted, along with whites of course, for the “crimes” of being competent, educated, and modestly successful.
This allows a veneer of acceptability to be glued over the millenia old urge to kill them all, and thus is gaining popular traction.
Much the same sentiment is on display here and across Europe.
It remains to be seen if the Jews are going to lie down to get their throats cut. Current evidence suggests not.
the EU fundamentally uses trade to keep the peace and make war unthinkable. That has been its great success
Hello again to that old self-deluding trope. Nasty wars, like the little stramash in Yugoslavia, just airbrushed away – nothing to see there, in fact, as the EU has kept the peace for decades, it can’t have happened. Wibble, wibble.
I see we are being warned of a 1.5 billion budget problem which begs the question why was our revered leader so keen to give our money away no matter how deserving the cause.
BDDT , quite recently I was told that ‘seen’ and ‘done’ used in what we consider the wrong context , was quite correct in old scots – make of that what you will!
Hope your health is continuing on an upward path.
@alf baird says:14 December, 2023 at 11:54 pm
Guid tae see ye doon in the bluidy sawdust, bitin an gougin wi the rest o us.
I think it was Irvine Welsh who wrote the short story about the two academics who spent decades tearing literary strips off each other in papers, reviews, etc.
Then they chanced to meet at an event, and after a few refreshments, went out the back and started knocking lumps out of each other.
The guy who walked away (as the polis were slinging his opponent into the back of the meat wagon) reflected that in all his 40 years in academia, he had never enjoyed anything quite as much as kicking his opponent in the balls.
@Dorothy Devine says:15 December, 2023 at 8:04 am
1.5 billion budget problem
At the beginning of last week it was 1 billion.
At the end it was 2 billion.
So some uncertainty, but only half a billion or so. Might be stashed under the campervan floor, who knows?
But it’s only taxpayer’s hard earned dosh. Plenty more where that came from.
BTW, Dorothy, could you write either ‘my revered leader’ or ‘our “revered leader”‘.
Cos he sure ain’t this Sovereign Scot’s leader, neither is he revered.
John Main’s comment at 8.15am conjured up the image of a spotty teenager in the school common room acting the big man in front of his mates by swiping at the teacher from a safe distance. Bless.
Scots may cover themselves in «tartan» but to the average Johnny Foreigner they are English. The English, early on, did make sure by standard usage that British and English were interchangeable terms in most languages.
As a non average Johnny Foreigner i can confirm that neat sleight of terms.
To the wide world, without the attributes of independence, Scotland is the top end of the island of England.
Being a minority is no fun, being a minority with an identity problem is trauma. Being a Unionist who does not get the obvious consequences of being one is a capricious act of self-immolation.
Speak for England, you Unionists! Enjoy!
Breeks @6:21am
If the EU leadership (both in the commission and member states) were ardent “nationalists” then I’d agree. Instead the EU is run by globalists who want neo-liberalism and the rules based order dictated by the USA to be the dominant ideology for the rest of the world. To get back to Europe for Europeans you’d have to rollback the politics at least two generations to get the sort of people who were inspired by the European Project and the desire to rid the continent of war once and for all. So I agree the EU is at a crossroads but I’d add there is also a choice for the populace on how they move forward.
As for Scotland? I think we’d want to be part of the Europe for Europeans but as a tiny piece of the the global empire, I think not.
@SteepBrae says:15 December, 2023 at 8:31 am
Up early the day?
I didn’t know they still post out giros.
BTW, as an educated man, I am confident Professor Alf Baird will understand my post in the way it was intended. You need to keep out of things you lack the intellect to understand.
Dorothy Devine @ 8.04
I’m sure folks on here can make suggestions to help cut their budget.
Here’s a few for starters:
Stop pointless court cases
Stop pointless trip abroad
Cut a few Spads and special advisors
Stop wasting money on badly researched green schemes
Recover money which has been spent ‘inappropriately’
But, just don’t penalise the poor any more!!
TURABDIN @ 8:36 am
“Being a minority is no fun, being a minority with an identity problem is trauma. Being a Unionist who does not get the obvious consequences of being one is a capricious act of self-immolation. Speak for England, you Unionists! Enjoy!”
Yes, a colonial mindset binds a people to their oppressor and helps explain the psychological emotion of the native who rejects his/her own independence.
History as well as the membership of the UN today tells us there is only one remedy for the ‘colonial condition’ – liberation – also known as independence and decolonisation:
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/12/15/new-thinking-liberation-in-a-scottish-context/
Main is awful keen on war, isn’t he?
Sounds to me, like he’s never travelled much.
Maybe he’s still in Primary school; or perhaps never had the urge to leave Brigadoon (or wherever they use his form of syntax.)
One day, hopefully, he might get on a bus and will find that the world is full of other towns, countries, and peoples; and will discover that all people are similar in that there are some good, some bad, and some indifferent. It’s complicated.
His blanket tarring of other folks with his imaginary prejudices makes him appear simple minded.
@Johnim.
Simple minded? I think the are being kind.
MaryB , indeed!
@Stuart MacKay says:15 December, 2023 at 8:39 am
the rules based order dictated by the USA to be the dominant ideology for the rest of the world
It’s certainly the one we are all familiar with. Suggested replacement hegemons, for example Russtiland, or the Covid spreaders, don’t quite seem to have the same popular appeal. Mystifying, eh?
The other awkward fly in the ointment for the west haters continues to be the tens of millions of folks from all parts of the world heading in only one direction. Towards the west.
Perhaps these tens of millions of folks know more about the real world than many on here.
I’m all for iScotland attempting to make a go of it in magnificent, truly independent isolation, but I suspect that won’t happen. We’ll be EU lite, Atlanticist, and colonised from Brussels under the guise of freedom of movement.
In compensation, it’ll be business as usual on Wings BTL, and I’m sure the usual suspects will still be able to somehow blame it on the English. So happy days.
Re the Rwanda that few talk about* thanks in part to hate fueled genocide in the holy land (FFS).
Is it possible that, over and above the implied ring fenced investments associated with the plan, it is the nearest Commonwealth country outside the EU (unlike Malta, Cyprus, Gibralta?, etc) and therefore the safest place to house refugees from Europe – especially if England considers itself full already, and Scotland has independence (and a return to EU) pending.
*Other than to call successful English people racist!
Geri 15 December, 2023 at 2:58 am
“Every. Single. Election IS a legal route. No higher authority than the ballot box.”
Absolutely wrong. Most elections are about multiple issues. People pick their parties based on numerous things. Surveys demonstrate that independence is nowhere near the top priority of most Scots, so when they vote in a normal election they aren’t voting solely for or against independence. There’s also the issue of proportional representation vs first past the post. The winner doesn’t necessarily represent the majority of voters, just the highest number of people voting for the same party. We don’t even have runoffs, so you don’t know what people’s second or third choice would have been.
Or “safest & most logical” place & “potential” return to EU even.
ALF BAIRD
09:13
Independence is fundamentally more a matter of psychology than normative political thinking.
If the mind is set on «liberation» no amount of politicking may deter.
Repeat a negative often enough and the incarnation of that negative you will become.
Applies equally to ethnic communities and entire nations.
«Every day, in every way we are a free people»
The psychologist Emile Coué would agree.
Here’s Blakey arrived (Yawn). Get that bus out!
James, if you don’t have a reply, just say so. The real world won’t jump to your demands. Which is why independence is as far away as ever.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn’t. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn’t be. And what it wouldn’t be, it would. You see?”
Is this a quote from Alice in Wonderland or Alf Baird?
Pat Blake
**Most elections are about multiple issues.**
A manifesto can be about anything it wants.
A majority of votes, wins.
Proportional representation only applies to list seats. The regional list. 7 elimination rounds swirling around the shite to find a seat for the Tories.
The constituency vote is FPTP.
Some will have read this….
https://www.thenational.scot/news/23991451.question-time-ex-yes-strategist-says-scottish-independence-may-take-20-years/
Effectively, you want independence? vote labour and wait for it to be hand it to you on a nice plate.
This may well be NuSnp thinking on the matter too.
Scotland, the country led by geldings.
This paradigm requires a major shift.
It could be Alfy Boy because he certainly types a load of nonsense, but hang on a minute, whoever it is, their spellcheck thingymajig held out to the very end. So now I’m not so sure.
… cue James with a one-sentence put down… Hi James.
Geri 15 December, 2023 at 12:59 pm
“A manifesto can be about anything it wants.”
Indeed it can but if it contains more than one issue, how do you prove that independence was the issue people voted for? And as other party manifestos include multiple issues, you can’t claim that people didn’t vote against those, rather than for independence? Your attempt to game the election system is doomed to fail because you are not the only minds deciding things. I know that it’s fun to pretend but it gets you no closer to your goal.
Nicola tried to use her majority to force a referendum and lost in the courts. Humza is likely to do worse in the next election. So if Labour wins big, does that mean that Scotland is no longer interested in independence? No, but by your measure it would. In the coming years you may see Alba and the SNP divide the independence vote. How could that be spun by unionist parties?
I find it curious that planning for a legitimate referendum is so unpopular here. I begin to suspect that you fear that as a single issue vote, there is no way to make it look attractive enough to win.
Breeks 6:21
I agree. Well said.
Keeping the peace was it’s greatest success.
I think Nordstream was a wake up call too. Forced into buying from America at triple the price from what they were getting from Ruski?
From what I’ve heard – Ruski warned them to form an alliance decades ago at the height of European terrorist attacks & NATO increasingly breaking international law to suit themselves & the UK did what they do best & twisted it into they were amassing an EU Army.
It made perfect sense to form an alliance. The UN is completely captured by America & NATO moving from supposed *peacekeeper* to aggressor.
I’m not sure where the EU is headed. It’s increasingly moving away from it’s core principles & seem on it’s own power trip.
Pat Blake
Wrong on so many levels. Where to even start…
1. A single line in a manifesto is enough.
2. Nicola didn’t lose a court case forcing a referendum. She won the election & was entitled to have one. What the courts ruled was that she couldn’t legislate for one in their branch office = Holyrood.
3. You & Ass keep making the same mistake. The LAW only applied to what can happen in Holyrood. NOT what can happen outside of it.
4. Labour won’t win. That’s pie in the sky & wishful thinking. Don’t mention Rutherglen, Tories & Lib dumbs gifted that.
5. The independence movement will rid ourselves of the SNP. The vote won’t be split. Indy parties will have the exact same manifesto pledge. Simple. They’ll have won as a collective.
6. We have planned for one. The UK blocked Holyrood & Sturgeon sat down. SIX mandates she squandered. The next one won’t be.
Pat Blake
**Indeed it can but if it contains more than one issue,**
Forgot to add – it won’t.
Independence & our immediate exit.
No need to geo into side issues as we won’t be staying.
This is nothing new. The Tories ran one issue elections on
‘A vote for us is a vote to save the Union’
‘Vote for us to stop indyref2’
‘Tell Nicola Naw!’
& Lost them all.
Now Indy is going to do the same thing – suddenly it’s against the Law & barking mad LMAO!
Such hypocritters..
an experiment
And despite all that Geri, Scotland hasn’t had a referendum and is still in the UK. You can pretend that Nicola and the SNP are all unionist infiltrators but it’s just not true. A referendum would have saved her and the SNP over the missing funds. More money would have poured in. The referendum she promised didn’t happen because she didn’t have the authority to hold one. Plus she knew that an illegal vote or forced departure wouldn’t be accepted by countries that Scotland needs after independence, including the EU and the UK.
You have no workable plan.
“Don’t put your hand up, Geri, because we’re not sure if you can count to one.”
Congratulations on your new membership of Club Pre-Mod.
TURABDIN @ 11:21 am
“Independence is fundamentally more a matter of psychology than normative political thinking. If the mind is set on «liberation» no amount of politicking may deter.”
Indeed. And, similarly, if the mind is set against liberation no amount of politicking can deter.
Which brings us back to the reality that an oppressed people really need to understand their ‘condition’ before they will seek the only remedy.
https://peterabell.scot/2023/08/27/the-new-thinking/
This is from the Good Friday Agreement. Politically it looks like a plebiscite (a direct vote in which the entire electorate is invited to accept or refuse a proposal) would do fine.None of England’s business either.
“The British Government agree that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish.”
@MaryB 8:58pm
Belatedly I see you asked a question to me about heat pumps. Dan responded. Ramping up for Christmas here. I am not against heat pumps per se if that is what the householder wants to do. I am against the Scot Gov mandatory compulsory and basic coercion that is going on. Going to jail, impeding the sale of property, financial penalties. Adults can reduce their own carbon footprint with a solution that is best to suited to their property and circumstances. Yes I have been to Orkney a few times mostly on holiday but was sent for an accident investigation. It’s a lovely place. Another article up which I haven’t read yet. So I will move on.
sam @ 4:21 pm
“the entire electorate” ?
Not quite. On the constitutional matter specifically, the “people of Northern Ireland” are actually defined in the Belfast Agreement. That definition highlights the importance of ‘birthright’ and parental descent as opposed to a residence-based local government electoral franchise, like the one which prevented independence in Scotland:
“The British and Irish Governments declare that it is their joint understanding that the term “the people of Northern Ireland” in paragraph (vi) of Article 1 of this Agreement means, for the purposes of giving effect to this provision, all persons born in Northern Ireland and having, at the time of their birth, at least one parent who is a British citizen, an Irish citizen or is otherwise entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on their period of residence.”
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/619500728fa8f5037d67b678/The_Belfast_Agreement_An_Agreement_Reached_at_the_Multi-Party_Talks_on_Northern_Ireland.pdf
Alf, that definition would include NI born people not currently living in NI. The Good Friday Agreement doesn’t apply to Scotland and was only agreed after years of terrorism.
The SNP chose instead to allow anyone over 16 resident in Scotland to vote in the 2014 referendum. Excluding Scots living elsewhere.
Pat Blake
Why don’t you tell us all your ideal terms for a referendum.
I’ll take a guess.
Never?
Who is going to cause terrorism in Scotland? Scots for reclaiming their own country? lol
Angry English who it is nothing to do with?
Ireland was annexed.
Pat Blake @ 6:48 pm
“The SNP chose instead to allow anyone over 16 resident in Scotland to vote in the 2014 referendum.”
That is merely added evidence that the SNP has no interest in securing independence and does not understand what self-determination means. There seems no reason why Scotland should not be able to define its people for the single purpose of national self-determination in the same way as in Northern Ireland, as agreed to by the British and Irish Governments.
[ASA] “Congratulations on your new membership of Club Pre-Mod.”
Amen to that!
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer….
Geri, I have no problem with Scotland having another referendum in 11 years time. I only object to a continuous demand for them as it wastes money and time. I don’t care if Scotland parts company. I would wish you well. However without a good plan it will be an ongoing problem for all of us. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life hearing Scots whine how they were tricked into leaving the UK when they weren’t ready.
Alf, why not go the whole hog and insist that only those who want independence be allowed to vote? Claiming the SNP don’t really want independence is a pretence designed to hide how hard it really is to achieve your goals. You want to game the system and are frustrated that the SNP didn’t have the bare face to do it for you.
Dundee
Why wait for 11 years? What’s happening in 11 years?
Don’t you know how democracy works? SNP have had six mandates. Won a majority on the express instruction for indyref2.
There is a route to independence & it’s perfectly legal for us to leave the union or we wouldn’t have had one in 2014 eh? D’oh!
How do you know we aren’t ready?
Who is to say we’ll whine? It can’t be any worse than the shite we’ve already had for over 300 yrs. Plus, not many colonies have every cried for their parasite to come back – including over 70 who have left the UK & haven’t looked back.
Brexit didn’t have a plan. Yoons didn’t seem to care about that. The result is all that matters. There will be a transition & negotiation period post indy & Scotland will be in full possession of her accounts.
James
Aye, only a matter of time before the boss popped in. I did try warn him about personal attacks & to read the rules a few days ago. He chose to ignore & just double down with the usual insults.
Oh deary me..
By “Dundee”, I assume you mean me Geri.
Why 11 years? Because on the 13 September 2014 Alex Salmond pledged there would not be a second Scottish independence referendum for another at least another generation even if he lost. He recognised that endless threats of a major upheaval is damaging to Scotland. Unsurprisingly the promise went out of the window the moment he lost. Would it have been fair to have immediately restarted the build up for another Brexit vote if it had lost? No doubt Farage would have tried it, but it wouldn’t have been fair to the EU or the voting public.
The UK has lost money due to Brexit but it was far more independent from the EU than Scotland is from the UK. The EU has made concessions that it wouldn’t make for any other country because it really does need the UK. Things have gone surprisingly well but people are still whining about it because it isn’t easy. To a certain extent Brexit is a template for good and bad outcomes. That’s why you need a plan.
“There will be a transition & negotiation period post indy & Scotland will be in full possession of her accounts.”
Says who? What if you were out on day one? There is no procedure, unlike there was for leaving the EU. You are relying on the UK government being amenable. Which it might be, so long as you don’t illegally try to have a referendum every election or by trying to pull away. A big part of the SNP plans is to join the EU as soon as possible. An illegal departure would seriously damage that prospect. Spain could veto your entry on its own, just to prevent Catalonia trying to claim precedence. Things like that are why you are all so scared of having a plan. Nicola didn’t make it public but I’m sure that she discussed these things with the EU and they said ‘no’.
Some of the wilder ideas here suggest you’ll take ownership of assets like water, gas and power to maximise income. Forgetting that those assets are owned. Owned by EDF for example. Hmmm, I wonder what France would think of that bit of piracy?
Pat Blake @ 9:31 am
“Some of the wilder ideas here suggest you’ll take ownership of assets”
That’s what independence means, to return what has been stolen from a people, if you care to look at the many declarations of independence from colonial exploitation, e.g.:
“We declare the right of the people of (insert country name) to the ownership of (insert country name), and to the unfettered control of (insert the name of people) destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible.”
You can legally take back ownership but only if you buy them back at a reasonable market price. To take them without that would be recognised as stealing. Countries can and do do that but they’re not considered good or trust worthy. You’d not quite be on a par with Russia but not far off. Would the EU or EFTA let you join? Would western countries want to do business with you unless it was very much under their terms? How would the banking and business world rate Scotland?
You could claim that you’re a poor little down trodden colony claiming back your true rights but that would count for nothing outside Wings. People’s pensions are sunk into things like water.
Pat Blake @ 11:36 am
“You can legally take back ownership but only if you buy them back at a reasonable market price.”
What you are advocating is buying stolen goods, the penalties for which are severe. Stolen goods have to be returned to the rightful owner.
The western world considers those assets legally sold. Would the French government shrug and accept it, if you took back EDF’s assets without paying a fair price? How would trade negotiations go after that? Do you even know who currently owns what?
This is why you guys need a plan. You don’t seem to have thought through the basics.
Pat Blake,
You may not have heard Alex Salmond explicitly explaining how one government can’t tie the hands of another future government.
You also seem to either not understand how democracy works or are happy to cast it aside at the drop of perceived personal gain.
A referendum is a democratic measurement of the Will of the People to allow our political representatives to enact that Will.
There is no reason to insist that the Will of the People of any country should be silenced, suffocated or ignored unless one is not democratic.
Of course there are practical concerns regarding time and money, nobody is asking for a referendum every second Tuesday, a reasonable timeframe is easily comparable with the frequency of General Elections, as an example.
Alex Salmond’s observation that the 2014 independence referendum is a once in a generation event is a statement of fact and will remain a statement of fact until we have 2 referendums in a generation.
If you believe that it is somehow law that we can’t have another independence referendum in a shorter timeframe than a generation because of what Alex Salmond said, you would be incorrect.
If you believe that what Alex Salmond said regarding a second independence referendum is his personal opinion, then be aware that he is allowed to change his mind.
You’re idea that the People of Scotland should be denied their voice is simply undemocratic, I hope you can be truthful with yourself and acknowledge this.
Pat Blake says: at 11:36 am
“You can legally take back ownership but only if you buy them back at a reasonable market price. To take them without that would be recognised as stealing. Countries can and do do that but they’re not considered good or trust worthy.”
Oh aye, thanks for reminding us of just who we’d actually have to buy stuff back from (*if we chose that route) seeing as London Rule has allowed so much of our important resources and infrastructure to be owned by foreign interests.
France recently decided to fully nationalise EDF and they can’t be that dodgy a country to deal with as England still imports significant amounts (sometimes near 10%) of its leccy requirement from France.
Serious question Pat, are you actually happy with the state the UK energy market is in and the resultant effects it is having on individuals and businesses?
*
I’ve proffered an example previously that makes no suggestion of altering the ownership status of these assets and resources, instead the change of Scotland returning to self-governance would mean that the revenue streams generated by licensing and taxation of these assets and resources in Scottish jurisdictional areas would be diverted to a Scottish Treasury, to be used and distributed across Scottish society made up of 5.4 million folk, rather than them flowing into the UK Treasury which serves 67 million folk.
Breastplate 16 December, 2023 at 12:23 pm
A de facto referendum on something as monumental as independence should never be a matter of every few years. Brexit was well over 40 years after the vote to join. To do so at every 2 or even 5 years would be very destructive. If that was the case then Scotland could vote to leave and before any negotiations were complete it could change its mind and the departure called off. That would fit your definition of democracy in action. It would boost the reasons for a rUK government to play very hard ball in negotiations. It would convince EFTA and the EU that you were a very fickle future partner.
Dan 16 December, 2023 at 12:26 pm
“France recently decided to fully nationalise EDF and they can’t be that dodgy a country to deal with as England still imports significant amounts (sometimes near 10%) of its leccy requirement from France.”
Nationalisation is legal but to do so the government has to pay for the company. Does Scotland have the money?
Yes, what Scotland can and would do is tax everything under its control and at whatever rate it can get away with but it could price itself out of the market. Is there enough expertise in Scottish government to oversee that?
There are complex deals set up at the moment where if the grid can take renewables it either has to or else pay for those renewables to be turned off. The renewables are paid between 2.5% and 3.5% more than the base rate. What would happen to those deals after independence and nationalisation? You can’t assume that they’d roll over, let alone be as generous. The UK as a whole is paying for those inflated prices to be able to claim that we have reduced OUR CO2 levels.
“Serious question Pat, are you actually happy with the state the UK energy market is in and the resultant effects it is having on individuals and businesses?”
The problem was sadly worse when things were nationalised. I don’t know why but it was a feature of it. Look at any department that is funded by taxation in the UK and you’ll find one that isn’t efficient with time or money. I wish that it were otherwise.
Pat Blake says on 16 December 2023 at 9:31 am: “Why 11 years? Because on the 13 September 2014 Alex Salmond pledged there would not be a second Scottish independence referendum for another at least another generation even if he lost.”
More BS from you, liar. Salmond never “pledged” anything of the sort. What Salmond did do was use a figure-of-speech, a throwaway remark. And ever since bullshit artists (aka BritNats) such as you have tried to use that as some sort of official position to stop Scotland exercising its democratic rights. Show us this “pledge” or just GTF with your BritNat trolling.
And btw, Boris Johnston used the exact same figure-of-speech throwaway remark in the 2019 election campaign. Not once, not twice, not three times, but on several separate occasions. So, by your way of thinking there cannot be any more general elections? Funny how when that’s put to lying BritNats a deafening silence is the reply, isn’t it?
Another thing, a fact in democratic politics, *nobody* can bind the hands of those who succeed them. Salmond’s throwaway remark was just that, no matter how much lying halfwits want to make it so much more. BritNats don’t get to dictate democracy to Scotland.
Finally, and probably most importantly, there’s this, an official documented agreement signed by all of the main political parties involved at the time. A legally-binding agreement. https://indyposterboy.scot/3799/
And just for good measure, the Labour Party have been promising to scrap The House of Lords since the very early 1900s (1902 i think?) and they’ve done nothing but contribute to the ever growing tally of unelected “Lords” ever since. Just one of many lies told to the public by all 3 Westminster parties over the decades. And those lies were proper manifesto “pledges”, not throwaway figures-of-speech.
So, it’s a bit rich for BritNats to suddenly become paragons of credibility by demanding one individual (and his sidekick Sturgeon for she too stated it) keeps to the words they once spoke. Words that were *NEVER* any part of any signed documentation/agreement by all parties involved. Have you any idea how much that reeks of hypocrisy and double-standards? You’re out of your league on here. Constantly spouting utter BS and outright lies as facts.
Pat Blake
Are they owned or are they under contract?
In any case, that is for Scotland to negotiate direct with those countries & new contracts drawn. Resources are in Scottish territory. Scotland never sold them.
Independence will be nothing like Brexit. England wanted to retain EU benefits without actually paying for them. We receive no benefits from the union so that’s a non starter.
A country can have a referendum ANYTIME the population requests it & the majority have requested it for 9 yrs. Ignoring democracy just because you may not like the result isn’t a normal attitude to have & never ends well. Scotland is entitled to leave. SNP have also repeatedly tried the over friendly route & it’s been ignored. That can’t continue so another route will be taken.
Alex Salmond *once in a generation* Zzzzzz! That was a figure of speech & fine YOU know it. When he said it I took it to mean; **the importance of the vote – get yerself registered, folks** Not literally – he’d no authority to put any time on democracy & neither has the UK government.
Catalonia – Zzzzz All the old tropes eh? Spain has a written constitution that prevents Catalonia from leaving. We don’t have that. We’re in a voluntary union by CONSENT. That consent is being withdrawn.
We don’t need endless plans. Our own resources, our own money to spend how we see fit & our own decisions is all we need.
How can anyone draw up financial plans when the accounts are deliberately hidden? It’s just another nonsense. All we need to know is, the UK doesn’t send us big pots of free money out the kindness of their hearts. We’ll manage just fine. Plenty other countries manage it.
As for the UK not being amenable. That is a risk they take with their own (very fragile at the moment) seat & status on the world stage. They’re not dealing with some backwater.
Pat Blake says on 16 December 2023 at 12:34 pm: “A de facto referendum on something as monumental as independence should never be a matter of every few years.”
Note, folks, how we now get the typical BritNat Blake response, a transformation from the original “pledge” lie Blake stated to this now being a matter of opinion, Blake’s opinion. In this situation there is a monumental difference between factual accuracy and personal opinion. You lied and have been called out on it.
A sovereign nation can hold as many referendums as they please.
You need a question & a majority to back it in order for it to be asked.
I doubt that would be rejoining the UK. Even now no one can list the benefits of being in it already.
So what you’re both saying is that any decision to leave the UK could be easily reversed before negotiations are complete and that without a clause specifying a time frame you could be voting in and out of anything you join in the future. Verbal assurances mean nothing. Stability isn’t important to the people of Scotland?
No matter what the borders of Europe are now and why areas came together (eg conquest), it is in the interest of every country’s capital to keep things as they are. If Scotland leaves the UK without an agreement to hold a referendum by the UK government (as tested by the courts very recently) then any part of Europe or beyond could claim that the original boundaries weren’t democratically and legally drawn. Spain just wouldn’t want to risk encouraging the Catalans by accepting Scotland as part of the EU. Why would it?
“We don’t need endless plans. Our own resources, our own money to spend how we see fit & our own decisions is all we need.
How can anyone draw up financial plans when the accounts are deliberately hidden? It’s just another nonsense. All we need to know is, the UK doesn’t send us big pots of free money out the kindness of their hearts. We’ll manage just fine. Plenty other countries manage it.”
If you don’t know what assets you’ve got and how you can exploit them, how do you know that you can afford independence? Scotland didn’t get independence in 2014 because the voters didn’t believe ‘it’ll be alright on the night’ promises. THAT’s why you need a plan.
Pat Blake says: at 12:59 pm
“There are complex deals set up at the moment where if the grid can take renewables it either has to or else pay for those renewables to be turned off. The renewables are paid between 2.5% and 3.5% more than the base rate. What would happen to those deals after independence and nationalisation? You can’t assume that they’d roll over, let alone be as generous. The UK as a whole is paying for those inflated prices to be able to claim that we have reduced OUR CO2 levels.”
You really don’t need to point out the farcical “complex deals” that basically allow taxpayers to be doubly shafted by foriegn states and companies that get paid to not produce leccy here, whilst at the same time England is importing leccy from mainland Europe.
I’ve regularly over the years posted links to various energy data sites showing production, generation, and transfers, and highlighted the curtailment mode again recently over the past few weeks.
Scotland has significantly reduced CO2 levels with regard to our energy generation compared to England. But as the two kingdoms that form the UK is classed as one entity, the UK often looks “greener” than it is because of this, and Scotland looks less green.
https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/GB
Evidenced by Scotland currently generating enough leccy for ourselves (3GW) and still exporting about 1.25 times that amount (4.2GW) to England.
https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime
A lot of data on this site too.
https://renewables-map.robinhawkes.com/#5/55/-3.2
Going back to this…
**As for the UK not being amenable. That is a risk they take with their own (very fragile at the moment) seat & status on the world stage. They’re not dealing with some backwater.**
Scotland returning to independence will have the whole world renegotiate the UK status because it’s no longer the UK. It’s England & Wales & an annexed Provence. The UN, NATO, the European Council as well as many other *joint* international organisations will also be re-evaluating it’s status with them.
I’m sure they’ll have plenty to say if England gets arsey.
It’s not to their advantage to start gobbling off.
Bullying tactics don’t work outside of the UK anymore. Brexit was a wake up call that no one gave a shiny shite about little England having tantrums.
Geri, if Scotland uses every election as a de facto referendum to leave then by the same measure every election would be a de facto referendum to not leave. So in the negotiation period before you were a separate country the voters could just call it all off by voting for a party that promised to end the departure. By that time the governing party would have had to get to grips with all those issues you don’t think need to be planned before and the public would see exactly what they were voting for.
Scotland doesn’t need UK agreement.
The court only ruled on Holyrood. Not the treaty.
Holyrood is, & always was, a Westminster branch office bound by the Scotland Act.
No one would be holding a ref to rejoin the UK. The question needs a majority & what’s on offer. Neither will happen.
If anyone wants to see a plan – okay, go look at Norway.
Same size, same oil, same renewable potential.
Or, what really needs to be asked is: look at the current shit show that is the UK. Poverty, no prospects, zero quality of life. Work to you drop. No NHS. No movement. Bleak Victorian backwards shite..
I know which one ppl would choose.
Scotlands territory remains intact. It wasn’t a territorial union so why are we discussing boundaries? That’s your invention. Typical yoons always throwing in irrelevant shite.
Would Scotland be entitled to move her boundaries the other way & take Newcastle? No. So stop with the imaginary nonsense..
Geri “No one would be holding a ref to rejoin the UK”.
There wouldn’t need to be one! Your plan is to not bother with a referendum but use ordinary elections as a referendum. So should a party or parties that don’t offer independence win then they would have the right to call independence off. How many years would independence take? How many elections?
You are not Norway. You are an interconnected country with activities taking place either side of the border. How many new institutions would be needed? DVLA, passport, crime agency, pensions, etc, etc. Do you even know how long Scottish oil and gas are estimated to last? Will a greener Scotland even allow drilling?
As a measure of how little thought has gone into independence, Humza Yousef thought that UK tax payers would continue to pay Scottish state pensions after separation. He didn’t know enough to see that current workers and taxes pay for pensioners, not a stored pot of money that people are entitled to.
Today’s workforce pay for pensions.
Just as the previous one did.
There would be negotiations on what *the current* Scottish electorate have already paid in NI contributions & adjustments made. The UK is collecting *current* contributions.
The Scottish government would be taking over people’s NI & will pay out people’s pensions from day one. This was exactly the same as 2014. Negotiations with the UK would be between governments, not pensioners.
All those organisations you mention are job creating. About time! What’s not to like?
If Independence is called off (unlikely) the UK would have to show what would be on offer to rejoin & a majority vote for it. Little England is so conceited I doubt they’d rush in with a plan – do you?
Maybe we could just ignore it eh? You seem perfectly happy to deny democracy for countless generations regardless of what people vote for so it wouldn’t upset you too much..
BTW, we’ve 13 years of plans for Indy. If you don’t know what they are it’s because you haven’t bothered looking & you didn’t pay attention last time…
Pat Blake,
I understand that how democracy works may be confusing for you but it shouldn’t be as there is a well defined meaning and little room for wriggling, I would suggest you’re being disingenuous about this subject.
Regarding your demands to know exactly what the future holds for an independent Scotland is in juxtaposition with your complete disinterest and disregard for the future of Scotland within the Union.
Again, I must impress upon you that the ideology of self determination is that one makes their own decisions, good or bad. The idea that a country must prove that every future decision must be correct so as to be allowed to make those decisions, is farcical but alas, that is the Unionist argument. Again there is no urgency from the Unionists about future decisions made for Scotland by another country.
Logically speaking, it is evident that England not only won’t put Scotland’s wants and needs first and foremost, it is impossible that they can.
It is therefore reasonable to think and believe that Scotland will always prioritise Scotland’s interests regardless of how much money you think Scotland has or doesn’t have.
From an English perspective, it would be logical to make decisions on Scotland’s resources to advance English interests, from this English standpoint, it’s not a lie when they profess we’re “Better Together”.
It is in this respect that from a Scottish perspective, the Unionists are illogical bed wetters, clinging to the emotionally charged comfort blanket of the Union, licking their Master’s hand in order to beg from some scraps from the table they will never be invited to sit at.
“If Independence is called off (unlikely) the UK would have to show what would be on offer to rejoin & a majority vote for it. Little England is so conceited I doubt they’d rush in with a plan – do you?”
They don’t have to offer anything but a return to the current situation.
I’ve heard a lot about ‘might’ or ‘could’ but very little ‘will’. From currency to trade, I’ve not read anything about what you will do. Who will you get to organise things? Those Scottish Civil Servants you claim work for Westminster? If you leave based on an election rather than a referendum, why would WM co-operate with any of your plans? If you expect to pay pensions etc out of collected NI, you’d better have the systems ready to do it. That includes having the software and data and bank to put it in.
“Maybe we could just ignore it eh? ”
Who is this ‘we’ you speak of? Which party is storming to the front with your idea? Are they ready to organise everything on day one of free Scotland? Are they even in a position to pay their own bills?
@BP
An unnecessarily long post from you, easily and unwittingly refuted by many of the pro-Indy posters on here when they bang on about the “Brexit Disaster”.
It’s hard to sell the “just have faith” Indy trope whilst simultaneously jeering at those who had faith in Brexit.
This is not me dissing Indy so don’t dismiss my post on these grounds. It’s me dissing your logic.
Sell Indy by plausibly demonstrating how and why it will work. Focus on the sole factor that energises most apathetic voters – the economy.
Breastplate, I understand democracy just fine but because you guys live in your bubble, you don’t question the details. The suggestion is that any normal election could be used as a decision to leave the UK. Legalities aside, the suggestion is that the winning party would then negotiate exit in the same way the UK left the EU. Except there was a process for that for Brexit. Except the UK already had systems in place for most of the processes of government. Except we had years to actually make the deals before we were actually out. In that time Brexit could have been reversed. Had Labour won in 2019 or before, it may have been. So either Scotland has a transition period in which another election could stop it, or it doesn’t. Is Scotland ready for there to be no transition?
Hey Pat, have you considered that after your reconnaissance missions on here garnering the vibe and info on the various issues within your favoured union as highlighted by us indigenous Scots, that it might actually be a more productive use of your time in saving the union if you took them onboard and instead of telling us how shit we are, you tried to influence and steer the dominant partner’s trajectory in this supposedly equal union so that it better addresses the wonts and needs of Scotland.
FYI, just rocking up on here and telling us what we can and can’t do isn’t a particularly endearing modus to win us over.
Or alternatively seeing as England still relies so much on fossil fuels for their leccy generation, you could do your bit to save the planet by stopping your internet posting until the energy required to power your device is generated in a way that is carbon neutral.
Norfolk boy is now (albeit outwith his control) doing his bit on that front.
I don’t care about the union Dan. If I did, I could sleep safe in the knowledge that the SNP aren’t going to achieve it any time soon. The longer they govern, the further away it gets because the public can see that they’re no different from any other group of politicians. Alba is currently nowhere. You all talk like you’re the next bunch of freedom fighters with the right plan but can’t answer simple questions about your policies.
Brexit wasn’t ready.
It wasn’t even supposed to be an official referendum. It was an advisory referendum. A glorified opinion poll & Lord Kerr of hee- haw wrote article 50 without a bit of Shame that a co signatory to the treaty of Union wasn’t even going to be consulted.
The UK was given another chance to mend their ways in 2014. They didn’t. They doubled down in their contempt & started issuing warnings from day one & think they can deny democracy. They can’t. Elections will be used.
We can answer any policy questions you have but you’re not really interested in the answer. You’re on an Indy website that has hundreds of thousands of articles, on every topic & scenario, dating back over 10 years regards the UK & Independence – use the search function. That goes for Main too. Complete ignorance to the site you are posting on.
There would be a transition period – even extended if need be. Grown ups would threaten legal action/sanctions for belligerent tantrums.
The SNP is over. Independence is not & never will be. There are more irons in the fire than through politicians. The SNP is the result of a fcked up Westminster system. A diddly administration. The whole point of it was to bind us in knots. Reflected in the Scotland Act where every action comes with a punishment.
The Union is finished. It’s outlook is diabolical. It’s future is bleak. It’s peddling backwards to the Victorian era where only the gentry have any kind of standard of living & an outdated and archaic monarchy of outdated pomp full of cringe.
How does that shit enrich YOUR life?
You could start by giving us a list of the benefits ..
We’ll wait.
We = the people who want change & are having their democracy denied/put on a time limit by roasters who think they’ll fashion a new version of democracy.
No one votes for yoons. Labour aren’t making a come back. We’ve had them before & they were even worse than the SNP are now. 7 houses, PFI debts, overpriced trams, overpriced parliament, £1.5 billion languishing in the bank & Bitter Together folks won’t forget in a hurry.
@ Pat Blake
Over the years I’ve come up with plenty suggestions on numerous policies that would be more realistic and beneficial to Scotland than the endless streams of shite flowing out of both Westminster and Holyrood.
I’m not actually a hardcore nationalist. I am however motivated to us having more direct and local democracy with less corruption, and that means having stronger reins over our elected politicians with checks and balances so that we might have better tailored policies to control our assets and resources and everyday needs at local community, regional, and national levels.
Clearly the current UK construct is failing us, as can be seen by various actors rocking up to tell us how shite and compromised, and un-empowered we are. The thing is most genuine btl posters know this already and that is why we are striving for ways to address this situation.
Because under London Rule we are effectively outvoted by 10 to 1 in Westminster we have little power to alter the status quo, and that is why with returning Scotland to self-governance we can begin to steer our own path from a politically divergent England.
This is the reason I end up being a de-facto nationalist.
As I understand the data, there’s somewhere between 45-55% of people in Scotland who might vote Indy, if there were to be a referendum. But in a geographical sense, most of those votes are in Glasgow and the central belt, some in Edinburgh, and Dundee. Of course, there will be hundreds of thousands in all parts of Scotland, but that’s where the concentration is.
The Borders and Galloway were most keen on the union, and arguably easiest (geography) to hive off to England if the people were preferring that.
Indy may be more complex than a binary question.
Geri “There would be a transition period – even extended if need be. Grown ups would threaten legal action/sanctions for belligerent tantrums.”
Indeed there would, but only if it was a legitimate referendum. That’s what I’m talking about. Comment section after comment section is full of talk about how to get out of the UK without one. Who would wade through page after page of that to find some gems of insight into an independent Scotland? The closest I’ve got is reading about how Scotland will have a lot more money to spend afterwards but no hint that the spending would be any wiser than it is now. Scotland could be beating the pants off England now in providing outstanding services, within budget. And yet… Instead of improving core services, Scotland and England are finding more pointless stuff to fritter the money on eg trans hysteria.
Talk of commandeering assets like oil and gas is basically a plan to be a failed state. Corbyn suggested something similar and gave Boris and Brexit a massive majority. Sure, you could tear up everything and eventually the World would accept it, but how long before it treats you like a decent country again?
Seriously I’d love nothing better than for Scotland to be independently successful. I want you to be something worth copying but the truth is, like gambling addicts, you believe that if you could just roll the right dice it would all come good. The SNP haven’t failed for a lack of passion for independence but because their dreams came up against reality.