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Wings Over Scotland

Counting With The Scottish Media

Posted on February 08, 2019 by

What does two plus two make?

Let’s all do it together, shall we?




Er, three again!

Kudos to the Scottish Sun for getting there in the end, though.

Stick with Wings, lads, we’ll keep you right.

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111 to “Counting With The Scottish Media”

  1. Marie Clark says:

    Chapeau Rev, well done sir.

  2. Davosa says:

    What a total cunt !

  3. Muscleguy says:

    It is confirmed, the Herald is staffed by theropod dinosaurs. Like their modern descendants the birds they only have three digits on their forelimbs aka wings. Which digits they are, IOW which two were lost to leave three is AFAIK still a live issue in Developmental Biology with evidence for a number of different scenarios. But the fact remains if such an organism is counting on its fingers it will only get to three.

    Obviously it is too stupid to continue counting on the other wing or using the toes but that also seems to sum up most Unionist journos.

    Yours Muscleguy BSc. PhD

  4. Balaaargh says:

    Scotland’s shame. Come indy, I will happily drive him to the border of his beloved England.

  5. Davosa says:

    As said elsewhere the BBC make Joseph Goebells look amateurish

  6. cynicalHighlander says:

    The BBC will of invited him just as call Kaye and Dr Scott from Edinburgh.

  7. Fergus Green says:

    This story is gathering Wings

  8. Dr Jim says:

    £1 bet he’s on Scotland tonight on Monday with help me Rona Tom Harris and Angela Haggerty

  9. Effijy says:

    Billy Mitchell to be offered his own BBC Char show-
    The Orange Talk.
    No Catholics but plenty of politics!
    Get the DUP on yer settee nightly!
    Introduce your Gran to the Klu Klux Klan

    Graham Norton has no chance at next year’s’ awards!

  10. defo says:

    If they ask real nice Stu, mibbees you could just ghost a few for them.
    Seriously, this just might grow v long legs. Here’s hoping!

  11. Gary45% says:

    Fuckwit Mitchell, Fuckwit Robinson= Fuckwit UKIP.
    And the “establishment” wonder why the world laughs at them.
    If they cannot work it out, hell mend them.

  12. Daisy Walker says:

    C 3 P Orange. Star Wars Hack Counting.

  13. Donald anderson says:

    Davosa says:
    As said elsewhere the BBC make Joseph Goebells look amateurish.

    Goebbels said he was jealous of the EBC’s propaganda and lies.

  14. The Herald and The Scotsman have no real journalists,

    they get their `news` from trawling twitter and facebook,

    they also are part of the BBC – Local Democracy Reporting Service – Local News Partnerships,

    they get money (millions) from the state funded BBC and in return they print the `news` the state supplies them.

  15. Daisy Walker says:


    MPs were due to have a vote on TM’s latest offerings next Thursday. The latest news is it looks like this will be put off until the end of the month (to allow her further time to negotiate).

    I estimate that realistically the very minimum of time need to call a referendum (whether it is for Indy Ref2 or for a PV on Brexit) is 6 weeks.

    I honestly can’t see that happening now.

    WM will not risk another GE and risk Scotland voting SNP/Indy.

    I know, and I share hopes that the ScotGov will pull a legal rabbit out of the hat re Sovereignty – but those things take even longer to arrange and then fight in whatever court it goes to.

    Meanwhile supporting Indy is like groundhog day now, every year its GERS, its failing NHS, it failing Trains, and its Orange Michael on BBC QT.

    Rinse, debunk, repeat, rinse, debunk, repeat…

    Oh and any second now Mr Peffers will bully and castigate me and/or anyone else who dare question the absolute perfection of the sainted SNP position, or dares to suggest they miss certain wide open goals, and in specific areas could do a lot better.

    So here is a question. If a no deal results in chaos in the streets, results in food riots, results in the excuse to implement a State of Emergency, which would enable the ‘temporary’ closure of Holyrood, in what way, how, at what point, will the First Minister implement whatever plan it is that we are all hoping she has up her sleeve, or indeed use the Mandate for a Second Indy Ref.

    How, if she and her party and government are locked out of the building.

    Everything rests now with the SNP, they are the YES movements legitimate and legal political representatives and the elected Government.

    If they do not act when they can. They cannot act when they are locked out of power. And that likelihood is now just over 6 weeks away.

    We are/ or we already have… run out of time.

  16. Auld Rock says:

    What’s the worry, we all know that they are incapable of doing anything complicated like ‘basic simple arithmetic’!!!

  17. frogesque says:

    @ Daisy Walker 9.34

    Wouldn’t be the fist time a Country had a Government in exile.

    We do have friends.

  18. Scott says:

    To be fair I am surprised they have acknowledged it at all. Their count of 3 was probably sourced from your first article.

  19. Scotspatriot says:

    Well done rev…..they don’t like it up em !
    You’ll be a VIP to us in the upcoming battle for Scottish Self Determination.
    Thank you.

  20. Robert Kerr says:


    Government in exile!

    I like!

    Dublin or Paris or Brussels?

  21. Clootie says:

    Yes he is an idiot but the BBC are using him and that is the real story

  22. One_Scot says:

    To be fair he was wearing the same jacket in ‘three’ and ‘four’, so you can see why that would make it easy for a Sun journalist to get confused. Lol.

  23. Dr Jim says:

    Here’s some bias for you ITV news just interviwed three Irish students who said Ireland should give concessions to the UK

    They must be the only three people in the whole of Ireland to talk such nonsense, unless they were from Northern Ireland and attending Uni in the south of course

  24. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Time for this again…

  25. Thepnr says:

    Here’s why I think this was an own goal by the BBC propagandists. It’s had so much publicity last night and today that many thousands of No voters must have seen it as well.

    It might not bother them at all that this character has appeared on QT four times and been able to ask questions three of those times when the majority of people who apply won’t get anywhere near the door.

    What your average No voter is not going to like is all the Union Jackery, the flute bands and cries of No surrender ect. The fact that the BBC feel that this is what is required is a blunder, sure it will make the diehard Loyalist more loyal but your average punter?

    It will turn them right off, shot themselves in the foot again and we need to keep highlighting the bigotry used by the likes of Prof T and Murdo the clown whenever it raises its head.

  26. Dr Jim says:


    Yep it’s been noticed by too many people this time, even Mike Russell has made comment on it and moderates who hadn’t noticed before see it now

    BBC might have a hole in their foot over this, the *excuse reason* will be interesting I’m sure, let’s see how big the shovel is, or do the BBC pretend nothing’s happened

  27. Albaman says:

    Very well done Stew,
    If it was not for you, and the Wings blog, the Scottish press would not have picked it up, even if they were aware of it, they’d probably pass it by , but because of you and your blog, I’m sure that we all on here “shared” it with the public, which obviously meant that it was the talk of the Scottish social media.
    Once again, well done for being quick on the draw.

  28. mumsyhugs says:

    They must have been passing round Ms Baillie’s calculator.

  29. Al-Stuart says:

    Good grief, would some posters in here get a grip, PLEASE.

    Stop being an echo-chamber for exclusively independence minded people.

    A LOT of yes-curious and potential yes voters lurk on these boards, hoping to be persuaded of the merits in casting their Indyref2 vote to YES. Not the ad nauseum BTL same-old-same-old.

    By slagging off the Sun and the Herald when they pick up a story from WoS and run with it is utterly stupid and wreckless. Getting BBC QT sorted out or even taken iff air will be exceptionally helpful to Independence. No matter how much many on here dislike the MSM, it is EXACTLY the reader demographic of these newspapers that will get the 2014 45% to 55%+ yes in 2020 Indyref2.

    I don’t suggest that the more fundy members on here become pro-NewsCorp and shareholders in Johnstone Press, but please stop pissing off and/or insulting MSM journalists and newspapers when they give a free pass to a pro-Indy story from WoS.

    It only takes a 5% marginal shift from no to yes to win Indyref2.

    Anyone who gratuitously insults MSM when they print a story that helps IndyRef2 is worse than 10 Billy Mitchells.

    Self indulgent indy-narcissists do a great deal of harm to the cause of Independence.

    Before typing a self-indulgent rant, think about whether you are helping Independence or just putting off the very voters needed to swing Indyref2 to 55% yes.

    Listen to what Rev Stu advises. Treat readers with respect and as if they were considering moving from no to yes.

  30. Capella says:

    They’d obviously filed their copy before your “Auntie’s Favourite” article was published at 1.00. It’s Friday it’s POEIT’S Day.

  31. Hamish100 says:

    al- stuart

    Own up!! Are you Tom Gordon, Clegg, Torq the crichton. Leask?

    The suspense is killing me!! oWN UP!!

  32. @Al Stuart,

    Johnston Press no longer exist,

    they went into administration and were bought out by their creditors ,
    (JPIMedia in a pre-packaged deal)

    apart from the liability on the pension side of things which they dumped on The Pension Protection Fund (PPF) ,

    described as a “blatant pre-planned corporate theft by bondholders”

    An Appeaser Is One Who Feeds a Crocodile, Hoping It Will Eat Him Last,

    f@ck all Scottish Media.

  33. Shug says:


    There is still nothing about the QT set up and all the press coverage on the BBC news

    Wonder why that is

  34. geeo says:

    Oh dear, one article covering a BBC bias story and al-stuart wants the media rats forgiven.

  35. Meg merrilees says:

    Not commenting on QT because I missed all but the last 10minutes.

    Listened on R5 and it sounded pretty grim.

    A member of the audience later phoned R5 to say that she was a resident of Motherwell and she didn’t recognise this attitude. Motherwell is a strongly pro-SNP town. She said there were too many Tories in the audience. Nuff said!


    I wonder if we could hold Indy ref 2 before May 4th and the ‘return’ of (t) Ruthless… if she returns…

  36. Eric the Cheeseman says:


    One pro-indy slanted story does not make the MSM pro-indy. They will continue to attack and insult the YES movement until the next vote.

    Wings will continue to provide thorough and informative analysis that soft Yessers require, regardless of the comments below the articles.

    As for wanting posters on here to refrain from insulting the MSM journalists who have spent the last 7 years insulting, attacking and showing nothing less than utter contempt to pro-indy politicians, supporters, groups, and the YES movement as a whole?

    Best of luck.

  37. Cubby says:


    Another cracking link. Love the Corries.

  38. Cubby says:

    Al- Stuart@10.47pm

    “The more fundy members on here”. Perhaps what we need in Scotland is less people with significant levels of the cringe.

    Best thing anyone can do is not buy any of the British Nationalist propaganda pamphlets masquerading as newspapers.

  39. Meg merrilees says:

    True to form however, on R4 this evening on Any Questions from Bangor, N. Ireland, not the usual Dimbleby in charge and definite bias towards the Unionist view.

    One audience member was allowed an unopposed statement that it was Sinn Fein who is preventing the resurrection of the Stormont Assembly and a plea to WM ‘How soon is Direct Rule going to be put in place?”

    Eventually another audience member put the view that if you are seriously wanting Direct Rule from WM given everything that is going on you must be a nut-case and reminded everyone the reason for the breakdown was a massive corruption scandal involving the
    DUP. Plus the resignation of the late Martin Mc Guinness over this corruption automatically collapsed the Assembly under its terms and constitution.

    You know, there’s a lot to be said for the situation when court cases are ‘sub judicae’ and the MSM cannot comment to be extended to political commentary at times of referendum or election so that MSM can ONLY publish the truth and unbiased facts.

  40. ScotsRenewables says:

    Doesn’t matter what you think of the Dead Tree Scrolls, the fact that this story has had wide exposure is a GOOD THING

    People who don’t use social/alternative media at all will have seen it, including many soft NOs.

    So BE HAPPY and more power to Stu’s elbow.

  41. Shug says:

    I fear they will really go after stu now

    Stay safe that man

  42. Al-Stuart says:

    Hi Cubby,

    I absolutely agree with you.

    When we reopened one of our buildings as a shop, we decided NOT to stock newspapers – precisely for the point you make. I baulk at the sight of the MSM headlines in other retail outlets.

    BUT, when Rev Stu., manages a spectacular goal and a coup of MSM pro-Indy publicity, he is incrementally getting us to the 55% yes mark.

    We have to be much smarter and less complacent. It is very easy to take shots at the MSM press and goodness knows much is well deserved, especially for that horrendous Daily Mail which I despise.

    However, I bet fifty quid Rev Stu. could quote chapter and verse on exactly how many “lurkers” visit WoS and never post – but are reading the content here and close to leaving “no”.

    Those current no voters who are yes-curious must be persuaded to come over to yes.

    If that means holding our wheesht when MSM post something that will help pro-Indy, then surely that is worth holding yer nose and biting wur lip.

  43. Meg merrilees says:

    Also heard a radio programme about Brexit built around the notion of being in a taxi not knowing where the destination is but there are three available routes, left – revoke article 50, right – leave with a deal, straight on – no deal exit.

    At one point they interviewed some political expert from Cambridge uni who is also an expert lawyer specialising in the EU.

    She stated that there are well known facts about a referendum. e.g.

    If you ask a group of people to vote on whether they want tea or coffee they will often answer ‘we want a cheese sandwich’.

    The first vote is well known to be a protest vote.

    If you hold a second referendum on the same matter, they have got the protest off their chest and focus on the issue being questioned and you get a more representative answer.

  44. Al-Stuart says:


    Give yer paranoia and personal digs a break. Please.

    You are not stupid. You know what I meant. I am NOT suggesting any forgiveness for MSM. We actually took a commercially costly decision NOT to stock newspapers in one of our retail outlets because of the relentless garbage peddled by dead tree scrolls. Those ant-SNP front pages make me boak.

    My point, and well you know how it, is as ScotsRenewables put it so well…. People who don’t use social media will get to see the BBCQT infraction of their legal duty not to be bias exposed. BBCQT has been a festering boil of an SNPBaaad propaganda machine for years. If BBCQT damaging bias can be neutered, that is a top result by RevStu.

    What pisses me off is the trap many fall into on WOS below the line comments. Call out 100% of MSM as shits.

    Alex Salmond was right. He worked towards trying to secure The Scotsman and his RT show is doing what we need. Persuading NO voter to YES. Like or loathe it, the MSM influence vast swathes of voters opinions.

    If this thread is to help rather than hinder YES and means refraining from kicking those MSM journalists who DO write a pro-indy story in the gonads, then so be it.

  45. Dr Jim says:

    What do you want me to write boss and how much do I get paid for doing it

    The Ethos and Ethics of *Journalism* in Scotland

  46. Cubby says:



    Do you know for sure that the hard copy version of these papers will cover this story? Your points are stronger if this is the case.

  47. uno mas says:


    If you are at all interested in the situation in Venezuela and you should be, then I highly recomend this video i just came across on youtube.

    It´s an outstanding piece of work and well worth investing the 37minutes duration to gen up on the truth re that country and it´s recent history.

  48. I reiterate, every time the Broadcasters ask for a pro Self Determination guest on their cynical little propaganda broadcasts, send a haggis. It is clear that the Brit Nat media are fully fledged fascists, who’ll stop at nothing to slap Scotland down.
    Send a haggis and let them rage among themselves about how wee how thick and how poor Scotland is.
    The viewers may well ask, yes, but?
    We are approaching the end game now.
    Mundell is not going to deny me my right to European citizenship.
    I fucking mean that.
    All the bullshit that it was a UK vote cuts no ice with this Scotsman.
    Off you go, England, we’re not stopping you. We wish you well.
    If England want to head off into the wilderness, well and good.
    Over my dead body, and I mean that sincerely.

  49. defo says:

    But will Auntie pull “what the papers say” ?
    Evens they do.

  50. Al-Stuart says:

    Scott Finlayson,

    I understand the point you are trying to make. But you misrepresent my earlier words and torture your own metaphor to death 😉

    I am not advocating appeasement. Just ease off on the ad hominem excoriation gas peddle a little when some journalist actually runs with work researched by RevStu.

    That ain’t appeasement, it is thinking through to a yes win.

    Surely you have tried to persuade the like of your auld Daily Record reading cousin Sadie McGubbin to vote yes? Oh how much easier that job would be were we to have a handful of MSM journalists who would balance their reporting!

    Sometimes SOME of the old guard BTL at WoS forget that many ex Labour voter like me who attended (and contributed time and £££ to local SNP meetings) LENT their vote to yes because of first rate forensic research and reporting by the likes of Rev Stu.

    I tend not to post below the line on WoS anymore as there is often little meaningful debate. Too often SOME old hands here are like a Scottish House of McCommons with their Ya Boo neighing akin to yon donkey Tory MPs in Westminster. I post a logical point and Geeoo pops up like whack-a-mole with his paranoia and Hamish chips in trolling me to own up as Leasky et al.

    Several “regulars” and old hands here could do with reading Rabbie Burns: To see ourselves as ithers see us.

    Instead there is a lazy torpor and lack of inspired thinking to help get from 45% to 55%.

    This is a shame, because sometimes there are some brilliant debates below the line on WoS when several of the deep thinkers on here come out to play.

  51. Pete Barton says:

    Al Stuart: point.
    Well made.
    Let’s think about it a little.

  52. Pete Barton says:

    Herald Scotland online’s most popular items list:

    This article’s subject matter is placed at first and third top respectively.

    Let’s not kill a goose before the eggs are laid.

  53. defo says:

    Makes sense Pete.
    Can we still wring its neck it afterwards?

  54. yesindyref2 says:

    Seems to me we need to decide whether we want revenge and to insult NO voters and “hostile” journalists and politicians, or do we want an Indy Scotland?

    Can’t have both.

  55. Col says:

    I think we’re missing a trick if we let this one go. Imagine a campaign of non payment of the license fee backed up by a few well known faces. All over social media. In the streets, people mobalised. The BBC poll tax has a certain ring to it. Now imagine how much they would shit themselves if they thought the English would revolt against the BBC too. Let’s put a message out to all democrats of the UK. The BBC has given us brexit, it’s given us tax avoidance, it’s given us austerity because it is nothing more than a tory mouthpiece these days. Apart from the tories who’d actually disagree these days? I honestly think we could mobalise and take them down. If not now, when?

  56. Petra says:

    WGD:- ….’BBC Question Time’s definition of balance.’

    ….”The BBC’s charter, as decided by the British government, obliges the Corporation to “promote cohesion” between the nations of the UK. As one of the last remaining British institutions, the BBC is institutionally incapable of reporting fairly and in an unbiased manner on an independence movement within one of those nations of the UK.

    BBC Question Time demonstrates that failure on our TV screens every Thursday evening. It doesn’t reflect the Scotland that exists, it reflects the Scotland that British nationalism wants to see. That’s BBC Question Time’s definition of balance. It’s failing us all. It’s failing itself. It has become an unfunny joke.

    BBC Question Time has some very serious questions to answer. It’s a safe bet that they won’t. Scotland doesn’t need the biased propaganda of BBC Question Time. It’s time the BBC was questioned.”

  57. AndyMcKangry says:

    I haven’t watched QT or any news/current affairs/political programmes on auntie beeb since 2014 for obvious reasons.
    I get all I need from wings on a daily basis, minus the dickhead trolls of course.
    I imagine I was as “Ragin!!” As most on here at QT’s efforts on Thursday night. Did we really expect anything else and were we surprised. The yes side, be it SNP or otherwise shouldn’t have been surprised either.
    I’ve said before on here and other sites that they need to stop taking a bun to a knife fight or a knife to a gun fight. They need to get tough and start making their own rules!!!
    However, when papers, like the Herald, Scotsman and the Sun pick up the story the next day from our viewpoint then we are winning.
    The EBC are making rookie mistakes if they think giving air time to the Billy Boys is helping their cause. These people are morons of the highest order. Only rampant unionists of the orange persuasion are impressed by them and they will never be persuaded to vote yes under any circumstances.
    The vast majority of people in Scotland whether they are for or against Independence have no time for sectarianism or these type of bigots.
    Even my wife’s unenlightened NOvoting pals will be turned off by this guy and these types of people and begin to wonder if the “mad” rantings of their pals husband over the years, maybe have a ring of truth to them.
    The more bigoted orange order loons the BBC allow on their programmes the better, it makes the unenlightened make comparisons between themselves and The morons.
    So let the BBC keep making the same mistakes, even the immutably content recognise a moron.
    As an SNP member, this for Nicola—If you are going to engage with the Empire’s media send John Wayne, not Danny La Rue!!!

  58. Petra says:

    @ Col says at 1:44 am … ”I think we’re missing a trick if we let this one go. Imagine a campaign of non payment of the license fee backed up by a few well known faces. All over social media. In the streets, people mobalised. The BBC poll tax has a certain ring to it. Now imagine how much they would shit themselves if they thought the English would revolt against the BBC too. Let’s put a message out to all democrats of the UK. The BBC has given us brexit, it’s given us tax avoidance, it’s given us austerity because it is nothing more than a tory mouthpiece these days. Apart from the tories who’d actually disagree these days? I honestly think we could mobalise and take them down. If not now, when?”

    Great post. Great ideas Col. However I’m absolutely exhausted tonight and I’m off to my bed now, but I’d say it’s something for ALL of us to REALLY think about, consider …. tomorrow.

  59. Derek says:

    “the BBC is institutionally incapable of reporting fairly and in an unbiased manner on an independence movement within one of those nations of the UK”

    There’s a Radio 4 programme on Sunday morning – 9a.m. – about the possible reunification of Ireland. D.

  60. Scottish Steve says:

    I am disgusted with how Orangeism seems to be making a comeback. With the DUP holding May by her anal bead necklaces, these bigots feel empowered and legitimised. The constant appearances this clown has made on Question Time will only further entrench their arrogance.

    How I long for an independent Scottish republic and unified Ireland. It will be beautiful to see the faces of these low lives if and when everything they hold dear is smashed to pieces before their eyes.

    They’ll always have England though, should they choose to move there. Cold comfort I’m sure.

  61. Cactus says:

    A welcome to all the new readers of yesterdays 3 posts, we can CU2.

    The 8th February 2019 has proven to be a significant day.

    Et maintenant…

    A grand dedication to… (ah’ll let the music video explain) 😉

    Ah wonder if we’ll see the red character frae this one, in today’s:

    Congrats on the latest stats spike Wings, ah see the WOS twitter followers had another bounce yesterday too.

  62. Al Dossary says:

    I actually managed to listen to the entire episode of QT yesterday via youtube. Wishaw is my home town. It was the most biased and propoganda ridden show that I have heard in my half century on this mortal coil.

    Ever single question or response from the Yoon plants was pre-determined as an anti-SNP rant. Forsyth et al had clearly been briefed by Tory head office to run the “another divisive referendum” comment at every opportunity.

    Historically nothing in the UK has been more divisive than these Tory bastards, their lap-dog media and their ultra-right wing policies. Give a rich man money – he will stash it in his local tax-haven, give a poor man money and he will buy bread for a week.

    And as to Billy the bigot – just why the hell was he pictured talking to the panel before the show? Receiving his orders?

    Being from the local area I would reasonably expect to know at least one or more persons in the audience, yet none. Not one person. Several who did try to get on the show, but I guess they are too radical for the beeb.

    That a large % of the population in the area is Orange is undeniable. However, the audience selection was unbelievable! It’s almost as if they were recruited from the local Orange Lodges. We have a red Tory / blue tory local council because of these bigoted bastards switching to Tory to keep rhe SNP out. There is a special place in hell reserved for them.

    I really am sick the the back teeth of these bigoted bastards, their lies and their unblinking deference to the head of the lizard people down at Buck palace. I am sick to the back teeth of the entire corrupt media and TV circus.

    And as to “Hugo”, do we honestly think that he would have gotten a job as a journo if his old man was plain old Malcom Smith rather than Rifkind? Much like Sarah Smith I guess he is a safe pair of hands for the establishment.

  63. gus1940 says:

    ‘BBC – The Enemy Within’ would look good on a car sticker.

  64. Luigi says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    9 February, 2019 at 1:20 am
    Seems to me we need to decide whether we want revenge and to insult NO voters and “hostile” journalists and politicians, or do we want an Indy Scotland?
    Can’t have both.

    We can if we are smart about it. By just behaving civil and peacefully campaigning for independence. These saddos are most offended by the fact that, 4+ years after the first indyref, we are still here in numbers.

    Believe me, they are grossly offended by our continued existence – we don’t need to be nasty to them.

    And revenge will be very sweet when Scotland votes YES next time. 🙂

  65. Luigi says:

    I noted the usual BritNat guff question came up at QT:

    “Why do you want to leave the UK to join another (undemocratic) union?”

    Still no punchy answer from the SNP – just the usual “Scotland voted to remain blah blah – rather weak IMO.”

    How about a more robust response – something like:

    “I would rather Scotland was a real country in the EU than a completely ignored, nothing in the UK”

    C’mon, SNP speakers – get more assertive.

  66. Gullaneno4 says:

    We should all vote for Silly Billy as TV personality of the year.

  67. Robert Louis says:

    Luigi at 0718am,

    Absolutely spot on comment. The same idiotic unionist questions keep getting asked, yet still the SNP has no hard hitting to the point answers. People have been saying this since the time of indyref, and yet still it clearly is NOT getting addressed by the SNP. Other political parties would be ready and waiting for stupid questions like that – they are a veritable gift.

    O/T where’s the Chris Cairns cartoon???

  68. DerekM says:

    Ah Al Dossary those images were not meant to get into the public’s hands luckily someone who cares about Scotland was there to make sure they did.

    It is now quite clear that it is a scripted show with the pretense of debate from those not in on the script and are only there to be the focal attack point of the show.

    Hmmm Jerry Springer moment for the BBC.

    Though i suspect many wings alert readers already knew this but now it is out there in the wide open.

    What is worse for the yoons is the story got so much hype that their own propagandist rags had no option but to run with it or be seen in collusion.

    Well that went well boys didnt it man is there anything you clowns cant mess up lmao

  69. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT has anyone seen the vomit inducing advert for BA?

    Self congratulatory little piece if ever there was one.

    I think an alternative is called for like Opium wars ,Aboriginal children removed to be ‘educated’ and the hunting of Aborigines, the slave trade Kenya and concentration camps , massacre at Amritsar etc. etc.

    Maybe it’s just me….

  70. Alan Gerrish says:

    Luigi how about replying: In the EU Scotland would have equal voting rights to even the biggest country. In the UK, England gets what it wants, and ignores Scotland, no matter how it votes. Seemples!

  71. Simon Curran says:

    Dorothy Devine@8.03
    No its not just you!
    o/t I read in this morning’s National of a German court ruling that German distillers not allowed to use Glen in the name of their ‘whisky’ as Scotch has protected geographical status. Presumably this is exactly the sort of thing that is endangered by Brexit

  72. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Scottish news page on the BBC website usually carries a ‘What the Papers Say’ item. As of a minute ago there is no such item on the Scottish page. There is an item on the UK news page, but it does not feature any Scottish items at all. Is the BBC got its fingers in its ears and singing LaLaLa very loud?

  73. Jock McDonnell says:

    Call the role:
    Youtube censorship
    Billy Mitchell

    And all the others .. I’ve lost count.

    I agree with those above who have said we don’t punch back enough on the simple assertions about currency, EU, oil, pensions. Glad to see Mike Russell on the Rev’s twitter feed hitting out at this, we need to be tougher.

  74. Patrick Roden says:

    Daily Record has 4 times.

    interesting quotes by Keith Brown in the record article:

    “Even before this week’s programme, the SNP had big concerns.”

    “To start with, we want to see a fairer proportion of airtime on the BBC’s flagship programme. We are in communication with the BBC and look forward to meeting them soon.”

    Looks like the SNP have started hitting back…at long last!

    Someone mentioned that there is a Facebook page that is claiming Silly Billy has been on QT seven times but has only spoken four times, has this been confirmed?

  75. Hamish100 says:

    Ireland has more power in the EU and treated with respect than Scotland has in the UK setup with no respect.

  76. robertknight says:

    Why the SNP continue to dance to the tune struck by the BBC (BritNat Brainwashing Channel) escapes me.

    The party should tell Aunty to go p*** up a rope!

    And quit Westminster while they’re at it!

  77. Luigi says:

    Robert Louis @ 7:41am
    Alan Gerrish @ 8:13am

    Whatever response is given to the

    “I can’t understand why you want to become independent to leave the UK then join the undemocratic EU!”

    It has to be a lot stronger than the usual: “Scotland voted remain, blah blah..” that SNP speakers seem to be trained to cope with at the mo. This will not cut it with the target voters. The current response only panders to those soft europhile NOs who have already switched because of Brexit. The REMAIN/NOs.

    BT (or whatever succeeds it) will write these off – lost aready. No, the next target will be LEAVE/YES voters – because unless BT can persuade some of these to switch to NO, they will loose big time, and they know it. It’s a pity our side has apparently not realised this yet.

    To assume that och everyone who voted YES last time will do the same again is dangerous. I know quite a few soft YES voters (and soft NOs) who could have gone either way in 2014, and could easily switch again if we don’t get this right.

    BT will push this message hard and we have to have the correct response, not the robotic “Scotland voted remain blah blah..”. Sure, this resonates with the REMAIN voters, but what about the Scottish LEAVE voters (38%)? We need to have a message for them also.

    The best approach is to highlight how successful Ireland has been fighting the UK with EU backing, how a small country CAN be influential in the EU. And (this is important) reminding them just how ignored (and insulted) the will of Scotland has been in the entire Brexit process.

    To win any battle, an army must secure and protect it’s weakest flank. Our vulnerable, exposed flank is the soft YES/LEAVE vote IMO. You can be sure BT will attack this head on. We need to be ready and shore up our defences. 🙂

  78. Essexexile says:

    Al-Stuart @10.47pm
    Very well said sir!
    But, I note the usual pillocks with their trademark lack of self awareness launched into you in the following comments.
    I’ll say hear and now, I came to WoS some eight months ago as a recent convert to Yes. I was attracted by the inclusive, progressive politics that the SNP under NS is offering and her determination to secure indy for Scotland IF and WHEN that is the best course of action.
    But, some of the prats that hang around on these pages day in, day out have no idea how damaging they are to Yes. I still believe in independence but slightly less than before purely because I don’t like being on the same side as these people (geeo, K1, Hamish 100, Ken 500 and of course Cubby – who is just Billy Mitchell with a Yes badge). I’d almost rather be neutral in my politics than have these dicks savaging me for my lack of total belief every time I mildly criticise ‘The Cause’.
    Lord knows how many people they’ve turned off or failed to positively engage.
    Sitting around in small groups hysterically agreeing with each others fanatical views and deriding those who don’t agree with every word is for losers. By that I mean people who are on the losing side. If your personality prevents you from being able to engage with, and persuade people who will question you before being convinced you will be doing the Unionist’s work for them.
    But, of course these people will never, ever get it……

  79. Cairnallochy says:

    On a small factual point, do any of the cadre of Question Time audience regulars receive rémunération and/or expenses for their participation ?

  80. HandandShrimp says:

    I think that this shows that newspapers simply don’t have the resources to do research anymore…that or the current journalists are just very lazy and copy the first mistake they see.

  81. galamcennalath says:

    Luigi says:

    And revenge will be very sweet when Scotland votes YES next time.

    Oh yes! While my main objective is to get over the line and achieve independence, there is a bit of me which will relish the defeat of BritNattery. They deserve no less than destruction and being consigned to the history books. And we get to write those books! Their actions in defence of their Union have been a disgrace – lies, deceit, perfidy, smears …. and relentless abuse by the media they control.

    They won’t go down easily. In the days after a YES win we can expect legal challenges. When it gets to negotiations we can expect a repeat of Brexit style talks and can kicking.

    Independence Day will be the time to say firmly “we’ve done it” … and then the real work begins!

  82. Cairnallochy says:

    Apologies for superfluous accent markings – forgot keyboard set to French. Tried to edit but had already sent.

  83. Robert Kerr says:

    The Ulsterisation of Scottish Polics was and is Tory policy. Started by Murdo and the fragrant Ruthie.

    A few months ago I stood watching an OO march through Wishaw cross. It was an unpleasant experience and I felt very uncomfortable. Everyone just stood and watched. Immediately afterwards I mentioned my unease to two catholic friends who responded “How do you think we feel?”

    I honestly think that playing the orange card shall be very counter-productive to the Britnat cause. More so now that the DUP are facilitating Brexit.

  84. Famous15 says:

    Well that is the last time I trust the BBC.I went down the Barras to buy Brent Crude oil and the bastirds were asking over 60 dollars a barrel. When I said Billy told me I could get it cheaper he stuck his fingers in his ears and said you are no listening.

    He also said whit am a wantin it fur cos all the profits get sent sooth as we are too daft to spend it right. He tried to sell me a three lions shirt second hand affa Billy”the flute” Mitchell but it was mingin wi fenians blood so a said naw. He did not have any Union Jack underpants so that buggered ma visit to the strangers bar.

    He told me Billy never met Lord Forsyth or any othe Tory as the were too saft oanthe SNP.

    Billy says UKIP says Farage says what he says oan the telly as he has the best mooth fur the BBC to inject fact and truth into all his questions ! Questiins ? Ah just tellt thon oh so polite SNP lassie,so a did.

  85. PacMan says:

    Its reasonable to say that in my workplace, like everywhere else, has a broad opinion that reflects the rest of society. With the infrequent conversations myself and my work colleagues have on politics, it is short and terse. However, I get this feeling that what isn’t being said is more important that what is said.

    I can’t help but feel that people know exactly what is going on including how biased the Mainstream Media is. The reason they don’t act on it because it doesn’t affect them and they have things that they consider more important in their lives to consider. However, I feel that will change when in instances like this, the bias becomes too obvious and they have to do with it.

    This Brexit could well be the tipping point where ordinary people stop from meekly abuses like this as one of those compromises they have to accept due to it being out of their control to one where they need to act on. Could that mean opening their minds to the possibility that indy is a viable alternative?

  86. Cubby says:

    Al – Stuart

    You seem to be attracting some dodgy friends.

    I would be interested for someone to explain the mindset of a soft yes person.

    Never come across a supporter of Scottish independence that wants to go back to dependence and being treated like dirt by Westminster and its state controlled media.

  87. Colin Alexander says:

    Why do people look to the SNP for leadership? The SNP are not leaders, they are UK Govt administrators.

    The SNP have spent the last 20 years administering UK colonial devolution. Always playing by the UK’s rules either as opposition or Govt.

    That creates its own mindset of following the rules, being part of the system. As long as they have power and nice salary, expenses and pension.

    Like the Geeo types on here: At suggestions Scotland assert her sovereignty as an equal partner of the Union: You can’t do that, that’s against the rules of the British Constitution. You must play by the British Establishment’s rules that say, Scotland can only do what the UK state gives Scotland permission to do.

    That’s the SNP mindset too. The Colonial mindset.

    Oh how Ghandi or Jose Rizal would weep for Scotland and her political leaders’ mindset of only playing by your Master’s rules.

    Approx 100 years ago, women in Glasgow led the Rent Strike, John McLean went to prison and Glaswegians faced the guns of the British Empire in George Square, Glasgow, standing up for a fairer Scotland.

    No use of violence, just saying NO! This is wrong and we won’t accept it.

    I cannot imagine ANY SNP politician, defying the UK state like that.

    Well, there was Alex Salmond but, he’s been taken care of.

  88. Cubby says:


    You seem to be ignoring the site owners warning about personal abuse.

  89. Davosa says:

    Aye Colin Alexander agree. Think we need a more radical approach to achieving a level playing field then indy.

  90. Cubby says:

    Robert Kerr@9.22am

    You are spot on. The sectarian virus had been on the wane in Scotland but it has been deliberately cranked up by the Britnat politicians in recent times. The default tactic of Britnats across the empire – divide and conquer. However, as you say, more and more of the general public in Scotland are sickened by sectarian hatred and do not want to see it grow.

  91. Robert Peffers says:

    @Daisy Walker says: 8 February, 2019 at 9:34 pm:

    ” … Oh and any second now Mr Peffers will bully and castigate me and/or anyone else who dare question the absolute perfection of the sainted SNP position, or dares to suggest they miss certain wide open goals, and in specific areas could do a lot better.

    Sheesh! No Daisy Walker, Mr Peffers will not be along to bully, castigate you, or anyone else, who dares to question the FM/SG or SNP. He never has and he never will.

    He will, though, point out your need for remedial lessons in basic English language comprehension and to suggest, as usual, that you take your criticisms where they cannot fail to at least be seriously listened to, and where they might have some effect if they have merit.

    That is most certainly not on an open forum read by many of the unionists you claim to fight against and this particular Rev Stu article is the perfect illustration of just how the unionist propaganda machine pays heed to both Wings and social media.

    Laughably you are posting your fantasy of being bullied by me on a Rev Stu article that illustrates clearly that the very worst of the unionist funded press do pay heed to Wings. To the extent that several such are the feature on this very article we are now commenting on. Them having read and been alerted to the Question Time situation by a Rev Stu Wings article and also by the outcry on social media.

    Do you need any further proof that to make your criticisms on an open forum is aiding and boosting the unionist moral and damaging the FM/SG/SNP and thus the whole Indy movement?

    If you must crib about the FM/SG/SNP you will not make the slightest impression upon them by doing so on an open forum but you will certainly harm the cause you claim to support. So do as I have advised or just shut up with your efforts on this open forum.

    Take it to the FM personally – she not only is present on social media but can be directly addressed by the email addresses on SG and SNP websites. Take it up with your local SNP Party branch or Constituency Association or on the addresses on several on-line web pages. That way you will, at least, be listened to.

    You will not have the slightest effect on FM/SG/SNP policy by openly criticising them on an open forum but you will aid the unionist cause. You will be listened to by the FM/SG/SNP and, if your input has merit, it will be heeded but only by going directly to the FM/SG/SNP and not shared also with the opposition.

    The SNP can only change their policies by a vote at an SNP National Conference by delegates selected by the rank and file members after the matter, (whatever it is), has been properly dealt with at branch level. So take your criticism to the FM directly or to the SG directly or to a local SNP Branch Meeting. Do not waste your time and ours with your efforts to aid the unionist cause here on an open forum.

  92. One_Scot says:

    Clicked on the sun link above to read their take on events and noticed there was one comment which was cracking and pulled no punches against the BBC.

    Went on again today to see if anyone else had commented and there is now no comments.

    Having read the comment I know there was nothing untoward in it other than a complete dismantling of the BBC and their clear political opposition to Scotland.

    Given the quality of the comment in terms of putting the BBC in their place I am convinced it has been intentional removed to prevent others from reading it, which I find quite concerning.

  93. robertknight says:

    Sectarianism = Divide and Rule…

    The policy of ‘divide and rule’ is seen as a mechanism used throughout history to maintain imperial rule. It identifies pre-existing ethno-religious divisions in society and then manipulates them in order to prevent subject peoples’ unified challenge to rule by outsiders.

    The British are masters at it… India, Northern Ireland, Scotland, etc. etc.

  94. defo says:

    Open forum?
    Aye, but cross the self appointed monitor’s at your peril.
    Stifling freedom of expression = group think, leading to the clique.
    And that doesn’t repel ‘lurkers’and potential contributors?

  95. Daisy Walker says:

    And there he is – Dear Mr Peffers

    I repeat, I hold views that are different to you. I can live with that, and I do not try to shut you up.

    Would that you held the same democratic standards.

    It is attitudes like yours that lead to the downfall of the labour party.

    Unbridlelled, unthinking loyalty, that would brook no valid criticism, until the whole edifice was rotten through and through with nothing but place men and women whose only talent was an ability to read the party script.

    There are things the SNP can and should be doing better, and your chosen route to tell them has been taken and exhausted.

    We are running out of time, if we haven’t already done so.

    On the 29th March 2019 we are out of Europe. Most likely with NO Deal, and that comes to pass, there will be a state of emergency, and Holyrood will be closed.

    All the legal arguments about sovereinty and mandates for referendums will be pie in the sky, as the Scottish Government are locked out.

    A government in exile – which would not be legally recognised – cannot realistically hold any kind of referendum or election, or indeed represent any legal case at the ECJ or UN.

    That is the urgency, that is the danger.

    I put forward the idea that rather than ring hands over BBC bias, or worry about the cost of Billboards, we should use every asset we currently had, and I was told the SNP could not use its office windows. I checked – it took 2 phone calls to Westminster – and there were no rules stopping us from doing so.

    You said, SNP know best, just to pipe down, etc (and no these are not exact quotes, and I won’t be researching for the purpose of this). Well low and behold, the SNP office in Perth where the most experienced, leading lights of SNP – Swinney, Wishart and Cunningham (who she, where she, never seen, never heard, never out, never knowingly caught working for Indy). Finally, finally after a great deal of frankly badgering by their members, finally managed to get them to put a poster in the window.

    And it is a cracker. Very proud of it and them. 4 years after Indy 1, 2 years after GE ’17 where they lost significant votes, and months away from Brexit.

    But who says timing is everything.

    People are quite entitled to hold the view, and call them out on it. TOO LITTLE, AND PROBABLY TOO LATE, WHEN ITS ALL SAID AND DONE.

    Given what we face, there can be no tools left in the tool box, no softly softly, no – I’ll have a quiet word in their ear and try and persuade them. They should be grabbing basic ideas like that with both hands and running with them as fast as they can.

    There is a huge difference in keeping your powder dry, or pulling your punches. People have a right to ask which is it.

    And before you go into a great big speil about the FM doing this and that. Well and good and so she should be. But in the mean time, there is other ground to cover and it is basic that it should be, and deeply incompetent that it is not.

    I welcome Angus Robertson’s recent project. 4 years after Indy 1, 2 years after a drubbing at the GE and less than 2 months before Brexit. Well done that man, really ahead of the curve isn’t he…. cause no-one was suggesting that be done before, were they. Oh wait.

    The SNP do an incredible amount well. And their are very basic areas of communication where its just a black hole vacume. This is not a secret, this is not news, this is certainly not handing our enemies information on a plate. Worst that can happen, the SNP bosses, might be shaken into putting a poster in their window.

    Enough now.

  96. Col says:

    Daisy, I think a lot of indy supporters share some of your concerns. If the English parliament decides to close the Scottish Parliament in an attempt to stop a vote from even taking place I hope to God the SNP have something up their sleeve. I’d like to think that if that happened our representatives would go to the UN with the EU behind us and present Scotland’s case as a colony. By this time Northern Ireland could well see troubles again. The blame will lay solely with Westminster. I doubt looking at Ireland that they would get away closing Scotland’s only route to a democratic choice. We are a recognised paople and nation, no matter how Westminster treats us. Whatever happens, we have to keep the cool and any anger at our situation must be channelled into positive action. Getting out there and leafletting, speaking to folk so we are seen and heard. There will be times when we may think it’s all over but without a major push back from the people to show the will of the nation nothing may come of it. Remember, independence is rarely granted, we know how much they need us and the lengths they will go to to keep our resources so we have to get out there and take it.

  97. The Dog Philosopher says:

    Well said, Daisy and Defo. I don’t bother much with the btl stuff anymore. Read the Rev’s piece, always interesting, relevant and amusing. After that? Well it’s either all got a bit too chummy with the self-appointed shin-kickers or else guys like Cubby and Jezza firing nasty volleys at each other.

    Very off-putting for anyone new coming to the site.

    Can I ask, has the Rev ever attended any of these famous ‘Wingers’ drinking sessions’? Doubt it.

  98. Arbroath1320 says:

    Looks to me like the Britnat media have been using the BBC calculator … AGAIN! 😀

  99. Meg merrilees says:

    The Labour party made an official complaint to the BBC and QT after the Diane Abbott fiasco. In that case they definitely lied and misrepresented Labour and interrupted Ms Abbott.

    If they have lied about any aspect of the SNP or Indy, and they certainly interrupted Ms Hyslop then the SNP should make a formal complaint too about bias, misrepresentation and unfair interruption.

    As well as making the point about this man’s repeated appearances.

  100. Davosa says:

    Think we need to keep the pressure on the Biased Broadcasting Co. to answer why was Forsyth colluding with that fud Mitchell (and allegedly his wife and son) prior to the programme commencing ? Also why Mitchell was apparently shown to his seat in the front and centre by BBC officials. Collusion by the Tories – who’s have thunk it ?!

  101. Republicofscotland says:

    The rabid Britnat news rag the Herald can’t even get that right. What a bunch of arseholes.

  102. Shug says:

    What i do not understand about the billy brigade is they are supporting brexit which will see n ireland being controlled from dublin and westminster has said this.
    This is the one thing i thought they were against
    Can anyone explain this

  103. Robert Louis says:

    Dorothy Devine at 0803am

    Aye, the BA advert is truly vomit inducing. British nationalist nonsense. My guess is, that ultra nationalistic advert, is just the very tip of the iceberg of the uber British sh**e we will be bombarded with once brexit happens (which now, sadly looks like it will happen to Scotland, despite an SNP government).

    And of course, let’s not forget, that BA is a wholly owned subsidiary of the International Airlines Group (IAG, S.A, with its registered office in Madrid Spain). Very ‘british’.

  104. Scot Land says:

    It’s most illuminating that an online blog run by one guy does more indepth investigative journalism, supplying sources for each claim, than the entire mainstream media in Scotland does.

    As the Scottish press scrambles around trying to get it’s head around falling sales, the answer remains beyond their investigative powers.

  105. Jack Murphy says:


    FROM ‘TheyWorkForYou’:

    “How Ross Thomson voted on Constitutional Reform:

    Voted for reducing central government funding of local government.

    Generally voted against transferring more powers to the Welsh Assembly.

    Generally voted against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament…”

  106. HandandShrimp says:

    Dog Philosopher

    Don’t think Stu has been up for any of the recent Counting House bashes but he did come up for the Edinburgh march in 2013. We all met at a house of refreshment on the Royal Mile.

    I agree though, the arguing is a bit tedious. I tend to skip most of it. Still plenty of sensible topics, links and info though.

  107. Nana says:

    Watch First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon Discusses Brexit | Video Amanpour & Company | PBS

  108. SOG says:

    – Al Stuart – Perhaps next time the MSM use one of The Rev’s stories, they’ll credit him and the blog. Not that I’ve read their current output to check, I’m assuming they haven’t.

  109. iainmore says:

    That is some angry looking folk sitting close to him. I will guess and say that they are all yoons that ate something that disagrees with them permanently.

  110. Gary says:

    I am surprised that the story ran at all, even with the ‘miscount’ (although you can always rely on print media to get numbers wrong – it’s just their thing)

    Although, being cynical, I did wonder if they were trying to ‘manage’ the story to prevent sites like this one from claiming it hadn’t been reported but then reporting it in such a way as to minimise the barefaced BIAS shown.

    Question Time has always shown favour to UKIP, Farage was a guest more than ANY other panellist and was allowed to build support for his party and ideals via the show, they gave him a platform he would never had been given otherwise. SNP have never been allowed such a platform, not EVEN in proportion to the Scottish population.

    What irks me even more is that this knuckle dragger is such a poor advertisement for Scots. He’s an Orangeman and therefore takes his politics directly from how the Grand Master tells him what to think like the rest of these unthinking morons.

    I saw the pictures of him being given access prior to the show and it reminded me of Diane Abbots complaint of poor treatment and collusion.

    But the strangest thing of all is the fact he is given access to ask questions despite his very obvious lack of knowledge. eg He queried the notion that there was no plan for Brexit by trying a bit of ‘whataboutery’ saying that there was no plan for independence in 2014 DESPITE the ‘tome’ produced by The Scottish Government giving detailed plans on everything you could possibly think of.

    I’m not sure it’s even worth complaining to the BBC anymore. My most recent complaint was rebuffed by a snotty letter with barely concealed anger and revulsion by someone at the BBC despite them clearly being in the wrong. They have simply become a propaganda channel. Back in the 80s we used to laugh at the propaganda that Russian media like Pravda would put out, these days I watch RT to try and get some balance.

    We don’t have free media, the voices of the majority are quelled, the powers of our government are taken away against the will of the parliamant and the people and our calls through democratically elected politicians for a referendum are summarily ignored.

    This isn’t a democracy any more. We need to realise this and treat it as a hostile state…

  111. Al-Stuart says:


    Thank you kindly for your thoughtful reply.

    I am hoping Rev Stu might put together an article resolving the problem of a small number of stalwart WoS Below-The-Liners and the sometimes overwhelming volume of ex-Labour newjoiners to the yes movement such as myself and several friends who are newly paid up SNP members and attend many local SNP Branch meetings – but who get sharp, unpleasant and woefuly wrong insults on the WoS forum.

    The vast majority of old hands at the SNP Branch are welcoming and positive, but a few folk are understandably cautious of so many newbies and ex-Labour refugees.

    This phenomenon is mirrored on Wings Over Scotland below-the-line comments by a small group of SNP old guard. I absolutely understand this caution. The inexorable disgrace of MSM headlines would turn many folk into being suspicious, even a wee bit paranoid. But that breeds a place where discussion is often ridiculed and snuffed out. Worse, there are at least three folk on WoS below-the-line comments whomI believe put yes voters off of voting yes. It appears other newjoiners share that discomfort.

    I understand that Rev Stu prefers self-moderation. But often BTL comments do a lot of damage to the yes movement.

    Essexexile you make your point well….


    Essexexile says:
    9 February, 2019 at 9:09 am
    Al-Stuart @10.47pm
    Very well said sir!
    But, I note the usual pillocks with their trademark lack of self awareness launched into you in the following comments.
    I’ll say hear and now, I came to WoS some eight months ago as a recent convert to Yes. I was attracted by the inclusive, progressive politics that the SNP under NS is offering and her determination to secure indy for Scotland IF and WHEN that is the best course of action.
    But, some of the prats that hang around on these pages day in, day out have no idea how damaging they are to Yes. I still believe in independence but slightly less than before purely because I don’t like being on the same side as these people (xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxx – who is just Billy Mitchell with a Yes badge). I’d almost rather be neutral in my politics than have these xxxxx savaging me for my lack of total belief every time I mildly criticise ‘The Cause’.
    Lord knows how many people they’ve turned off or failed to positively engage.
    Sitting around in small groups hysterically agreeing with each others fanatical views and deriding those who don’t agree with every word is for losers. By that I mean people who are on the losing side. If your personality prevents you from being able to engage with, and persuade people who will question you before being convinced you will be doing the Unionist’s work for them.
    But, of course these people will never, ever get it……

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