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The last leap

Posted on April 22, 2017 by

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  1. 22 04 17 08:56

    The last leap | speymouth

442 to “The last leap”

  1. Robert Louis says:

    Until the day I die, I will never, ever understand why Labour rolled over and voted for Theresa’s election, or indeed her Brexit either.

    Voting to have an election when you are at a record low in the polls, with a leader who even members of your party doubt is Prime Minister material, is just political stupidity.

    For that clear example of utter incompetence, it is clear that Labour are not fit to run a tea party never mind a country. What a bunch of delusional incompetent losers.

    Now, if they were standing on a platform of actually opposing brexit, THEN it would be a very different ball game (half the UK electorate voted against it), but they are not.

    Jeremy Corbyn, what a waste of space.

  2. Giving Goose says:

    Robert Louis;

    It makes sense if you view Labour as British Nationalists.

  3. Les Wilson says:

    Very appropriate Chris, I am totally amazed at their self destruction and I do not see any coming back. A dead party walking, could be called a Zombie party now.

  4. ronnie anderson says:

    Labour know what they want , to they get it & then dont know what to do with it.

    Tereza’s T ing up for a backflip ah’ll give her ah 10.5 score.

    Good toon Chris.

  5. Smallaxe says:

    Jump into the same Hell that you have put a lot of people through.Auld Nick has a special place reserved for the red and the blue.

    Thank you, Chris.

    Peace Always

  6. Robert Peffers says:

    Chris never fails to provide a real cracker.

    He certainly has a good eye for both a cartoon and hitting nails on the head.

    Not like how my awakening this morning. My radio alarm is usually set to wake me to Radio Jockland.

    Not this morning, though. I must have bumped the button and changed the station accidentally and was awakened to Radio 4 and some woman talking about, “Britain”, and Brexit and farming.

    According to her, over 70% of, “Britain”, is farmed and, “Brexit”, will apparently have an effect upon farming and thus all of our lives because, it is what forms all of our, “Green and pleasant land”.

    Now correct me if I’m wrong but I doubt that over 70% of Wales or Scotland are farmed and to best knowledge, yon, “Green and pleasant land”, is a phrase that refers to England only.

    British/English Nationalism and propaganda in action goes on 24/7/365.

  7. DerekM says:

    The Labour party working to make the Conservative party electable in England since 1979.

    Nice one Chris 🙂

    It really was an unbelievable act of betrayal to any remaining party members who still think the Labour party can bring about change.

    Here they had a gilt edged sword of an opportunity to show the electorate they would stand up to the tories,handed on a plate by the stupidest PM in the galaxy,Labour of my day would have buried her dug her back up and buried her again.

    Blue tory Red tory same tory.

  8. Juteman says:

    As Giving Goose says, it all makes sense if you think of Westminster as a single entity. There is no difference between red and blue British Nationalists. The Establishment knows exactly what it is doing.

  9. Breeks says:

    Robert Peffers nails it.

    Labour and the Tories are just the ying and yang of the single British “Establishment”. Their differences are two faces of the same coin.

    When a non-establishment venture arises to threaten convention, such as War, or Scottish Independence, the two Establishment ranks come together in a heartbeat to protect their cosy equilibrium and maintain the illusion that the UK electorate has choice and control of its government.

    The Tories and Labour are different colours of the same thing, the British Unionist Establishment.

  10. Smallaxe says:

    Breeks says:

    “the two Establishment ranks come together in a heartbeat”

    The Establishment has no heart to beat, IMHO and Experience.

    Peace Always, my Friend

  11. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Breeks Or to put it another way Twa cheeks of the same Arse surrounding the Hole. There is no Left or Right just the whole & they are called the Establishment.

    Getting away from the keyboard for a couple of hours today,hoping to meet some Wingers in Dundee today (Caird Square)

  12. galamcennalath says:

    Excellent Chris. Why are Labour behaving like they do? Madness!

    Are they trying alienate their own voters?

    Percentage Remain / Leave by 2015 GE vote according to YouGov

    Con 39 61
    Lab 65 35
    LiDe 68 32
    UKIP 5 95

    Why does Labour (or LD) not completely oppose Brexit?

  13. Grouse Beater says:

    I read somewhere, Chris, that lemmings dashing over cliff edges into the sea is a wholly Disney concoction. It was an artificial scene in a documentary film about prairie life. I’ve always wondered why lemmings felt compelled to wipe out their species. (Doesn’t surprise about mankind.)

    We hope Theresa May will do the same, trip up heavily on her well controlled, clinically clean election campaign. With a greater Tory majority at Westminster Scotland will find powers removed!

    Your weekend reading:

    England not Scotland is bankrupt:
    A British propaganda film:

  14. Calum McKay says:

    Has it not occurred to anyone or everyone on here that labour are just plain stupid?

    Corbyn”s appears not to realise that he is completely toxic and his stance on brexit post vote is damaging rather than enhancing his party’s chances.

    If labour had maintained opposition to brexit, it would have secured a significant portion of the 48% in England. Instead it’s grubbing round trying to win back votes from ukip at the margins.

    This general election is stark for labour in Scotland, do they want a uk tory government and out of Europe or Scotland to run its own affairs in Europe.

    I guess we have their answer, labour in Scotland are true brits with a fixation above all else to support a relationship beyond repair, this fixation that will see their demise in Scotland!

    Why not call themselves the Scottish labour and unionist party, they are red tories after all!

  15. Free Scotland says:

    I see labour’s red flag of idealism has become a white flag of surrender – very appropriate. And, very soon, aided by the labour momentum, all that will be left on that green grass will be a sad and lonely pair of leopard-skin shoes.

  16. gerry parker says:

    Pure genious!


  17. asklair says:

    Labour should be a lesson to all grassroots activists, never let “Men in suits” take control. Another great political message from Chris, keep them coming.

  18. Price of Perthshire says:

    I was speaking to friends yesterday about the election and Labour’s inexplicable support for the General Election. It was unanimous among us that this was an act of pure folly as regards Labour, but also it was not necessarily good for May and the Tories either.

    It may be just wishful thinking on my part, but I honestly believe that it will not be plain sailing for the Tories. I can see some difficult times ahead for May in the coming weeks, and it might not work out as well as she planned.

  19. Croompenstein says:

    Definitely not a case of look before you leap Chris..

  20. Marie Clark says:

    Well said Chris, great toon.

    Labour are as thick as two short planks, they had an open goal when the GE was called, and missed by a mile. Then in Scotland they have the unmitigated gall to try and blame the SNP for abstaining.I just shake my head in wonderment at it all.

    The GE is quite clear, it’s Scotland v Tories ( all colours). The sooner we get out of this toxic union the better.

  21. DerekM says:

    Well i think we can safely say that is Labour crushed.

    Only thing left to do is sweep up the trash next month.

    Keep Scotland tidy campaign on May 4th remember folks throw the trash in the bin where it belongs 😉

    No stuffing tory council candidates doon the bog head first either okay ,i know it is tempting but think about the poor plumber that has to unblock it.

  22. Ian McCubbin says:

    For Scotland we have a mandate for Independence and May has conned the SNP into going through a process of gaining that mandate again. If they lose A a few seats to the Tories May and Davidson will say there is now no mandate for Independence and SNP and Yes movement will have to still run a referendum. There will be no stomach for more voting and press and Tories will keep saying so.
    Answer just declare a UDI now Nicola and be down with it.
    We have nothing in common with politics of England now and will never get a UK Government which Scotland votes for..a great cartoon btw.

  23. Sensibledave says:

    Morning People

    … lovely sunny start to the day down here.

    In recent threads, we have discussed what we think each of the leaders are doing and what their plans are. Just a week or so ago, many here believed that Ms Sturgeon had outmanoeuvred Ms May by getting the SG to vote for a referendum – thus leaving Ms May in the position of telling them “not now”.

    Based upon what we believe the outcome of The GE is going to be, do you think that indyref2, before Brexit, is more or less likely now?

  24. Stoker says:

    ronnie anderson wrote on 22 April, 2017 at 8:11 am
    (Re; Red Tories and Blue Tories)

    “Twa cheeks of the same Arse….”

    Aye, ronnie, and with a lot of shite in-between!

    Red Tories, so called due to that side of the arse
    repeatedly getting skelped.

    Blue Tories, so called due to that side of the arse
    constantly being left out in the cold by the EU.

    Make a point, tell the world, nail yer colours tae the mast:

    Can’t wait, roughly 7 or 8 more days
    until i’m fully operational again. YEEEEEHAAAAA!

  25. One_Scot says:

    ‘It makes sense if you view Labour as British Nationalists.’

    Which they clearly are.

  26. Brian McHugh says:

    I’ve been running my head over Labours position and can only come to the conclusion that the establishment must be pulling the strings. I know it sounds stupid, but it can’t be any more stupid than what we are actually witnessing in reality from Labour.

  27. Macart says:

    Oh, that’s a keeper. 😀

  28. galamcennalath says:

    Grouse Beater says

    …lemmings dashing over cliff edges into the sea is a wholly Disney concoction. It was an artificial scene in a documentary film about prairie life.

    Indeed, the reality is Lemmings show considerably more sense than Labour politicians!

    I mean, who ever heard of Lemmings supporting hard Tory Brexit! 🙂

  29. Fred says:

    Anent Lemmings, Pied Piper & Rats would be too cruel?

  30. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Some good reading there, Grouse Beater. Bill Nighy’s face on that poster, though. Wtf?

  31. Les Wilson says:

    Sensibledave says:

    It will reinforce the mandate for Indy2. It will be a straight fight SNP policies or Tory policies.
    For most Scots the Tories are despised here, and yes, polls show that, despite the spin. Ruth the Mooth is now showing Scots her true self and it ain’t pretty, people are now seeing her for what she and the Tories are, a poison to Scotland.

    They can do what they do, they will duck, dive, and outright lie
    aided by an outrageously bias English media of all kinds.
    It will not help them though. The SNP will come through and with more help from Scottish Tory haters of any ilk.

    That is my take on it anyway.

  32. David Caledonia says:

    I have never voted for any government that sits at westminster, i have been a scottish independence supporter for over 40 years of voting, i could not care less about your Labour or Tory parties, my vote will go to scotland as it allways does, and that vote will be cast to the present scottish government
    But i can tell you one thing, if england does not vote for the labour party in this coming election you deserve the tories, and you deserve what’s coming to you, UKIP, forget them, they are just a nuisance vote, vote labour into power, t, hen you can start to get back to what it used to be, a party of the people, this is not the time to be stupid, vote them in whatever their policies are, look at the tories, they allways get elected on lies and promises that they never keep, you people better vote labour at this coming election, or you will suffer years of misery from a tory party that could not care less about you or your family Alba Gu snooker loopy!

  33. X_Sticks says:

    I’ve been saying for years that when the question is Scottish independence we’re up against three differently coloured facets of the one british establishment party. They, including the “anti-establishment” labour party will always close ranks to try and prevent the loss of their cash cow, Scotland.

    I do wonder how much of this GE is about the tories sorting out their own internal power struggles and how much of it is about trying to damage the SNP and head off indyref2.

    Another excellent toon though Chris. You have a good eye for a hammer and a nail.

  34. Bugger (le Panda) says:

    Jeremy Corbyn sees himself as the conscience of the British Labour Party, a bit like Michael Foote.

    He doesn’t want to be PM as he would have to make decisions, lead and be accountable to the People. His Party would split and he doesn’t want that. When his time is over in the job, his legacy, he hopes will be seen distantly in the future.

    He dodges the open goal, every time.

    He is a natural voice in the wilderness.

  35. Scott says:

    I totally agree with what Robert Louis says.

    May set a trap for Lab and they walked right into it as A Salmond said all they had to do was abstain and then May would have had to call a no confidence vote on herself.
    Cris that is a stoater

  36. David Caledonia says:

    Remember Rhodesia and Mr Smith, now look at them now, we might have to declare UDI if westminster keep putting obstacles in our way, when all is said and done, how we get there does not matter, as long as we get there

  37. donald anderson says:

    Nicola should call a Scottish Parliamentary Election now. It will hotfoot the lot of them and clear out the dross. What a triple whammy Mandate that would be.

  38. DerekM says:

    @ Bugger

    Yea we all know what he is after in that legacy a seat in the HoL with all the other sold out parasites.

    It is the big prize for unionist politicians keep your nose in the trough without having to go through the tiresome act of trying to get elected.

  39. paul gerard mccormack says:

    I don’t know. That is my befuddlement right there. If I was to take a cynical view, I could say that politically, it’s just business as usual right now. This is disappointing.

    I see no signs of Defcon One or the ante being upped in any way. I want to scream stop doing this Westminster’s way – you’ll never ever get unionists recognition that you’ve won independence ten times over already. That is just an ever decreasing infinity where the hare will never beat the tortoise.

    As I said, I just don’t know. I am sorry – Can we not get a move on with this project?

    As one insect says to the other in a bug’s life, ‘I’ve only got 24hrs to live and I don’t want to spend it doing this!’

  40. Paula Rose says:

    I so want to live in a normal European democracy where politics and elections don’t appear every year – why do unionists like them so much?

  41. Hamsih100 says:

    The First Minister is doing just fine. Let the unionist brexiters argue over what crumbs they won’t get.

    Davidson has severely injured her persona with her backing the rape clause in Scotland. Nasty has exposed her true colours.
    Her lucky streak has ended. Even the BBC are embaressed.
    The tory publicity material for the local elections look even more silly with their NO stance while tory HQ have forced us into a brexit General election campaign. The possible corruption charges of tory MP’s also rumbles on.
    We can stay focussed. Greens cooperate with the SNP and we can turn Davidsons sneer into an even bigger frown.
    We dont need a Holyrood election just now. We are in power.

  42. wull2 says:

    England’s front page papers: Pension pinching and potential tax hikes.

    Scotland’s front page papers: Craig Whyte trial and drug-drive testing.

    Check them out for yourself. BBC website

  43. The Dog Philosopher says:

    @ paul gerard mccormack

    I empathise with your frustration. But the SNP have always chosen the ballot box as the way to determine Scotland’s political future, even though winning 56 seats out of 59 would have at one time been more than the determining factor. Not sure when the goalposts moved on that one. Back in the 70s when the tide was high and the prospect of independence looked to be close, the understanding was that a majority of WM seats would secure the dream. Can anyone clarify. Mr Peffers?

    If the SNP won every seat would we still be sitting on our hands? Seems crazy!

  44. Bob Mack says:

    The truth be told, we are no longer just fighting Labour. We are as Robert Peters states up against the whole mechanism of the State, including Parliament ,the press and the mutifarious services which serve it under the guise of secret.

    Labour ,Lib Dems and the Tories are all arms of that state and will go to any lengths required to prevent Scotland gaining it’s liberty from the union.

    So, that is the battle we must win. Not just against a party like Labour. It is probably an unequal battle, but our history tells us we do not shirk away from such challenges.

    Fortunately I am as well armed as my opponent. I have a vote. Now my target is to convince others to help me with their votes, and together we can obtain our separation from this grotesque State which has been oppressing nations for centuries. They are experts at this game, whilst we learn as we go along, but we are getting better and better.

    Chris, again you bring home the bacon. Brilliant.

  45. Brian McHugh says:

    Apologies for off topic, but this makes me angry. The BBC Reporting that Lloyds bank has repaid the tax payer in full, from a £20.3 Billion bail-out 9 years ago. Philip Hammond saying the treasury is getting back £20.4 Billion.

    However by my calculations, an investment of 4% return P.A. is normally quoted as a reasonable expectation. Over the last 9 years @4%, the tax payer should have got back £28.9 Billion… meaning a net loss for the tax payer over 9 years of around £8.6 Billion. Even at a simple Inflation of aound 2%P.A, the tax payer is still losing around £4.3 Billion.

    You can bet your last quid that the banking spivs and speculators made their profit with the bailout money in that time, yet we are expected to accept Billions in losses as a good thing. The BBC in full Tory mode, didn’t even bother to note that monetary value now, is less than it was 9 years ago.

  46. starlaw says:

    Establishment all pulling together, explains exactly what all Westminster parties are about. Labour party handed an absolute gift and spurned it. No votes for Labour or other Establishment parties.

  47. Nana says:

    Brilliant Chris, all the little lemmings gleefully jumping off to their master’s call. Going to be some might big bruises when they hit the bottom.

    Beggars belief how many people seem happy to trash their own lives. Can they not see how the media are playing them. Maybe the government have put a brain washing pill in the water.

  48. HandandShrimp says:

    Knowing that the CPS was likely to soon remove May’s majority and thereby force her into a no confidence vote and an election in the most undignified circumstances, I find Labour’s strategy inexplicable (although some will no doubt already be preparing to remove Corbyn on the 9th of June)

    No one can predict every event over the next 6 weeks and it may be that Labour don’t crash and burn quite as much as expected because the Tories are unpleasant and May is a control freak. These elements could become a lot more apparent over the campaign but if the polls hold then Labour will have placed us all in the hands of a virulently right wing government with a huge majority and a whole pile of young thrusting Alan B’astards eager to prove their Brexity credentials. It has the potential to be worse than the late 80s under Thatcher and that was pretty awful.

    Having the ability to say “fuck your 1979 look what you have done in 2017” to Labour Muppets will be small comfort in the face of what will be to come.

  49. jomry says:

    Toty voices on GMS Talking Fown Scotland as usual. Useful antidote is JR’s – an impressive array of positive ‘can-do’ stories culled from research, trade journals and other non-MSM sources – gathered together in one virtual news-stand – encouraging and uplifting.

    Use it as a resource. Send your swithering unionist friends here. Feast your eyes on the headlines of good news articles this week alone :

    ‘Oil firms in boost for Scottish economy…’
    ‘Scottish university research to help developing nations remove arsenic from water supplies…’
    ‘Solar power plan for Moray airfield…’
    ‘Fewer Scottish businesses failing in 2017…’
    ‘Robust Scottish economy apparent in significant increases in demand for professional staff…’
    ‘Brutal UK Government denies Scottish Government right to attend UN Human Rights Council…’
    ‘Treasure trove’ of new oil and gas exploration data released…’
    ‘Oil predicted to settle at $60 to $70 per barrel over next three years…’
    ‘Scottish businesses showing signs of greater health than those in the rest of the UK…’
    ‘SNP Government takes the initiative to further enhance the competiveness of a recovering but still fragile oil industry…’
    ‘Scottish Gas output rises as production begins on a new field that could fuel, by itself, all of post-independence scotland…’
    ‘Orkney’s giant tidal turbine is the world’s most powerful…’
    ‘Nearly 60% of Scots support independence according to survey with small but representative sample…’
    ‘Really Good News for Scotland: PM Theresa May calls for a snap General Election…’
    ‘SNP Government-funded agents in China, Hong Kong, Thailand, Japan and Singapore, help Scotland increase exports of food and drink to Asia to more than £1 billion…’
    ‘Oil Market Rebalancing, Demand Expected to Rise’ One reason for Yes next time…’
    ‘Scots are much more likely to be willing to donate organs to save lives…’
    ‘Scotland’s Golden Eagle population continues to soar to more than 1 000 birds…’
    ;New M8 link between Glasgow and Edinburgh to open five days early with real benefits for drivers…’
    ‘Scotland would walk into the EU to resounding cheers…’
    ‘Energy, energy, energy: Scotland’s renewables projects, oil and gas discoveries just keep on coming…’
    ‘Scotland outperforms the rest of the UK with overall lower unemployment and lower unemployment for women and the young…’
    ‘Good News! Ruth Davidson is more popular than Nicola Sturgeon….in England. Nicola is much more popular with Scots…’

    What a contrast with the supermarket news stands!

  50. Clootie says:

    Labour are still running on the historical record of the “original” Labour Party. It has attracted a large following hoping to recover those values. Unfortunately the voting public in England have fully morphed into a cross between UKIP and a 1950s Empire tribute act.

    This GE has only one possible outcome and it will not be good news for Scotland. The Tory mission after Brexit is to ensure Holyrood is neutered.

    A pity that we cannot get behind one party for a few years to drive Independence. We have plenty of time AFTER that to develop a range of parties (Scottish Parties)…but divide and rule has held back progress for years.

    In a first past the post voting system put your Nation First.

  51. jomry says:

    re jomry 10.12.

    Apologies. First sentence should read… ‘Tory voices on GMS Talking DOWN Scotland..”

    Also, add to list of headlines

    ‘The sleeping giant is being stirred:Owners of former oil fabrication yard at Kishorn are understood to be preparing to make major jobs announcement..’
    ‘Never mind the ‘black gold’- it seems there are prospects of major gold finds in Scotland too…’


  52. HandandShrimp says:

    Listened to the radio this morning and it had SNP, Tory, Labour and Liberal bods speaking. To be fair to the BBC they did sound incredulous at the Tory suggestion that if the SNP did not take 56 seats it was somehow a vote for them even if the SNP win a comfortable, even overwhelming, majority. The Tory (Ross something) also spun like a top on pensions and tax. Not exactly a convincing showing.

    The Labour and Liberal chaps were equally daft about the SNP 56 seats…I think it is called desperation.

    It may be well nigh impossible to take all 59 seats, indeed with changing percentages between rivals it may be hard to hold all 56 with exactly the same share of the vote (I tried this on Scotland Votes it doesn’t take much for it to drop to 48 seats with the SNP still taking 50% of the vote), but if the SNP did take all 59 would these people say “OK fair enough, independence it is”. I seriously doubt it.

    It is an election and the pish and wind are already flying through the air.

  53. caz m says:

    Chris, they should do away with the Tory Party The Labour Party and the Lib/Dems

    They could all come together as “The Establishment Party” and stand as an MP for that Party.

    Since 1707 the golden rule has been “Save London at all costs”, no matter which Party is in power.

  54. caz m says:

    jomry 10.24am

    What a great link you posted there, regarding talking Up Scotland.

  55. Chick McGregor says:

    Perfect analogy Chris.

    Lemmings, the game, is another Dundee product, a city which which used to be staunch Labour.

    They should do a re-launch by simply renaming it Labour with a few minor tweaks. The hole digging is fine as is the ability to stop others going in the direction they want and, of course, the self destruct option is perfect. The stair builders would need a slight remod. though, namely pulling up the step behind them as they progressed.

    On second thoughts, maybe the stoppers could be made to only stop those trying to move top the left. 🙂

  56. Ken500 says:

    The Banks have refunded £Billions into the economy and the people who got screwed. e.g. Mis selling. £10Billion? a year collectively, with lower interest rates. For ten years. Plus the sell off of shares bung to the government. The banks have repayed in full, plus interest. Any profits have gone to the economy. Mainly London S/E where the financial fraud was administrated. Canary Wharf etc. London HQ headquarters.

    Osbourne took £30Billion in the Royal Mail pension fund. The liability now a UK.Gov debt. His best man and brother-in-law made a killing. Making £Millions from the sale, in fees, interest and commission. Their Bank was used. How the Tories screw public funds.

    Prof Murphy says QA brings in a lot to the rest of the UK in reduce the debt, although the debt is still. Increasing. Shows how much the rest of the UK is benefitting. Scotland doesn’t benefit because Scotland has to balance the books and can’t borrow.

    Scotland has to pay £Billions (average £4Billion a year) in repayment on rest of the UK debt. Not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Money which could be better spent in Scotland on infrastructure and jobs. Scottish administration jobs are in the Mall in London. Instead of Scotland. Defence, social security etc. Scotland doesn’t benefit, but pays the cost.

  57. Robert Peffers says:

    @Grouse Beater says: 22 April, 2017 at 8:12 am:

    “I read somewhere, Chris, that lemmings dashing over cliff edges into the sea is a wholly Disney concoction.”

    Yeah! Grouse Beater, I read those articles too. Mind you I had long ago sought out the real truth and knew the real facts. What struck me about the more recent BBC articles was this little bit :-

    “If Norwegian lemmings are to thrive in an Arctic winter, they need “the right kind of snow” @WayOfThePanda”

    I though, at the time, “Must be a bit like what BBC Scotland claims about the rail services in Scotland by claiming Scottish snow, like Scottish oil, is like everything else in Scotland, tragically always the wrong kind.”.

    My own opinion is that the only Scottish things that are the wrong kind are BBC Scotland, Scottish Labour, Scottish Tories and Scottish LibDems.

    “Your weekend reading:
    England not Scotland is bankrupt:

    I also have, in much simpler terms, been preaching that same message for many long years. I still cannot believe so many Scots cannot see the truth behind the Westminster Establishment and USA propaganda and lies.

    A British propaganda film:

    Is there any other kind of, “British”, films?

  58. galamcennalath says:

    caz m says:

    all come together as “The Establishment Party” and stand

    Indeed, “bring it on”, as SLab used to say.

    I am certain there are residual Lab and LibDem supporters out there who may not be convinced about Independence but equally they feel the same revulsion as the rest of us to the Tories. Lab and LibDem have left their voters behind and now might as well just join the Tories.

    The LibDms damaged themselves in coalition with the Tories. Then Lab damaged itself by being in Better Together with the Tories.

    Now they both are sooking up to them again. Declare your true nature! Let voters see the truth.

  59. jomry says:

    caz m 10.41
    Would like to see punted far and wide as a real confidence booster. I think John Robertson is doing a great job and is on the right track as this kind of positive forward looking portal will become ever more important in the months/years? ahead.

  60. Iain More says:


    Hilarious if true

    The special relationship was always a Brit lie.

    On topic

    Fib Booms throwing themselves off that cliff as well if they wont rule out a coalition with Tories.

  61. Dan Huil says:

    There is labourforindy.

    We have the EU on our side.

    Northern Ireland is also changing.

    Tories’ election fraud.

    Boycott all britnat media.

  62. starlaw says:

    Chick McGregor
    Lemmings apt description of the Yoons
    and Ive just found a free download of the prog. Oh ! happy days

  63. heedtracker says:

    I used to work with a Lemmings. Endless japes and tomfoolery.

    Bob Mack says:
    22 April, 2017 at 9:58 am
    The truth be told, we are no longer just fighting Labour. We are as Robert Peters states up against the whole mechanism of the State, including Parliament ,the press and the mutifarious services which serve it under the guise of secret.”

    If you get a moment, go online a gaze at the mass fury and shock at BBC attack propaganda on Corbyn from Lab voters this week.

    BBC 2 in particular has really upset them, with lots of spliced vids showing assorted beeb gimps laying into JC and worshipping Mayhem.

    Oddly enough its two ex Guardian twerps that moved to BBC Newsnight who’ve really got lefties glowing white with rage. Clearly never seen hammer of the Scots Severin Carrell lying his head for the union, in Scotland, Ian Katz, Nick Watt both ex Graun bosses of Severins, now destroying Labour for 2017 GE, BBC style shock.

    Having heard lefty England explaining to Scots complaining about just how awful cooperation is at BBC Scotland, “the clues in the British bit of BBC,” they kindly explained, its hard to give a shit.

  64. Grouse Beater says:

    Good and amusing points, Robert!

    And many thanks too, Galamcennalath.

    Reluctant nationalist,I think Nighy wasn’t taking the film too seriously.

  65. heedtracker says:

    So from,

    Sky News?Verified account @SkyNews 21m21 minutes ago
    Nicola Sturgeon says that there will be no SNP coalition with Conservatives at a local level

    To, hammer of the Scots Severin Carrell yesterday,

    Scottish National party (SNP)
    Sturgeon refuses to rule out SNP coalitions with Tories in local councils

    Scotland’s first minister says she is strongly opposed to Tories running councils but fails to rule out local SNP deals
    • General election 2017 – live updates

    Severin Carrell Scotland editor, will be working on his next stinky old Graun monstering of Scottish democracy, right the noo.

  66. Capella says:

    Craig Murray has some excellent articles on the snap GE and the possibility of Independence to follow. I wonder if he is thinking of standing for Edinburgh South? I wouldn’t be surprised if Ruth put herself up for that seat.

    Here’s his article on the current Tory manifesto being the same as the BNP manifesto in 2005. The BNP were to the left of the Tories on the NHS.

    Imagine any self respecting Scottish voter endorsing that.

  67. Robert Peffers says:

    @Calum McKay says: 22 April, 2017 at 8:16 am:

    “Has it not occurred to anyone or everyone on here that labour are just plain stupid?”

    Of course it has, Calum. However, many are now beginning to find out the true situation of not only Labour but the entire Westminster setup that has long been the more publically visible face of, “The Establishment”.

    ” … Corbyn”s appears not to realise that he is completely toxic and his stance on brexit post vote is damaging rather than enhancing his party’s chances.”

    Corbyn is no more and no less toxic than any other part of, “The Establishment”, and as Grouse Beater points out in his article:-

    When, “The Establishment”, comes under threat it is“All hands to the pumps” while, “The Establishment”, closes ranks against the threat, not to Britain, but the threat to, “The Establishment”.

    Like those big families that existed before the days of effective contraception that would fight, like ferrets in a poke, among themselves but let an outsider threaten any one of the family they presented a solid front to the outsider.

    Westminster parties are a front for the truth. What does a Unionist back bencher MP care if they are in power or opposition? Their take home wage is the same and in normal time the, “Buggin’s Turn”, of voter’s popularity means their turn in power will come round again as the voters weary of the Government in power.

    Under threat the Establishment will sacrifice an entire party to save, “The Establishment”. Ask where are, “The Whigs”, now? Whatever happened to, “The Liberals”?

    Not only that but in the event of a government, “falling”, the Lords sees a new influx of loyal Establishment members getting paid £300 per day just for clocking on to the best Retirement Home in the Entire Universe where they get subsidised food & drink the World has to offer. All that on top of the very best Pensions they arranged for themselves while in office or even in opposition.

    Thing is that there are presently two different outside attacks being mounted against, “The, ‘British’, wing of. ‘The Establishment’. These are the EU & the SNP and the ranks of The Establishment are firmly closed and thus the right wing Establishment colours all begin to merge into a, “Rainbow Alliance”, of Blue, Red & Yellow. We Yessers call them, “The Yoons”.

    Never forget, though, that, like an iceberg, 2/3rds of the Establishment are under the water and furthermore the shadowy heads of, “The Establishment”, are World Wide and can be detected in the far reaching distance as, “Globalisation”, and driven by a few elite and very rich but little known individual families with no loyalty to any particular country or state.

    Want to believe me a conspiracy theorist?

    Please yersel – I don’t care if you do.

  68. The Rough Bounds. says:

    I can well imagine how some Labour supporters and voters feel at the moment. Utter dismay at Corbyn’s Labour MPs voting with the Tory Government for an early election.

    They must be feeling so pissed off with their leaders.

    I remember in 1979 how the SNP supported a vote of No Confidence in the Labour Government. The 1979 referendum produced a majority of votes for devolution but failed to produce a vote of more than 40% as was stipulated as a requirement.

    Jim Callaghan asked the SNP for three weeks so that he could come up with something. Gordon Wilson, SNP leader, said No Deal and in spite of the general membership of the SNP pulling their hair out in despair at the stupidity of our leadership they helped to bring down Callaghan’s Government. Callaghan said ”talk about the turkeys voting for an early Christmans”.

    The independence movement was put back 15 years. It was tough, believe me.

  69. defo says:

    Cruella looks like she’s beeling !
    She had that lot earmarked for a full length winter coat.

    You missed out her pearl necklace Chris. But it’s a family website so…
    (shudders at the thought…)

    Chris Cairns. A bit good.

  70. call me dave says:

    From shortbread web site:

    The SNP’s national executive has ruled not to endorse a sitting MP as a candidate in the general election.

    Michelle Thomson, who was elected as an SNP MP but is now an independent member, was told by the party’s ruling body that she would not be selected.

    She withdrew from the SNP whip last year amid an ongoing police investigation into property deals.

    Ms Thomson said she was “very disappointed with the decision”.
    And she confirmed that “after careful consideration” she had decided not to put herself forward for election.

  71. katherine hamilton says:

    The demise of Labour in ’79 has been demonstrated on here so many times I assume you are new to the debate. Callaghan himself said it was the abstentions in his own party that sold the jerseys.
    Do try and keep up.

  72. Artyhetty says:

    Re; The Rough bounds@12.36

    Nah, I have friends in North England, staunch Labour, see Jeremy as the Messiah and got really pissed off when I suggested he should have rejected the GE on the table to at least stall it. They actually think he has a chance of winning the GE. Such a shame.

    Regards Callaghan, yes the SNP voted against in 1979, but it was clear to anyone who dared to see, that in actual fact, it was Callaghan’s own MPs that allowed Thatcher in, and did he not write about that very situation in his memoirs.

    The same old myth is doing the rounds that, ‘aye, but the SNP let Thatcher in in 1979’. My sister said it, her pals believe it, they all believe it and so they hate the SNP. They er, do not have the facts and don’t like it when you tell them it was their own Labour party who let thatcher in!

    I should think the last 300+ years have been ‘tough’ for Scotland, and the turkeys voted for xmas big style in 2014 to make it even tougher, didn’t they.

  73. heedtracker says:

    call me dave says:
    22 April, 2017 at 1:13 pm
    From shortbread web site:

    BBC r4 tory news gimps gone massive with that, endless police, SNP, police, SNP, police, investigation, SNP, fraud, police, SNP, booo, Stugeon police…

    You cant tell how much beeb r4 fraud’s miss Alex Salmond though. Still its easy peasy, vote tory squeezy, anyone can be a beeb tory attack propagandist.

  74. Robert Peffers says:

    Had to laugh this morning when I looked behind the front door and saw two SNP election leaflets. One showing which of the Bains they wanted as first and second on our preferences.

    Ann or Allie, and the promises they made of their aims for Fife Council if elected to office. The other was a wee card from the SNP of their manifesto promises for the Local Council elections and not a word or hint at either Westminster or EU aims or promises.

    How different to all other party leaflets I have found behind my door that one and all harped on about the SNP NOT doing their day job and dragging Westminster and either the EU or independence into the local council elections.

    So just which party is concentrating on their day jobs? Sure as hell isn’t the Tory, LibDem or Labour on the evidence before me.

    I’ll go with the SNP choice of local election candidates but will have to think which of the other unionist lot are the most dangerous opponents. So as to rank them last. I think that Labour might be nearest to getting a seat but in the present dire state of Labour – who knows?

  75. Thepnr says:

    just watched this from Wings twitter feed. Sky News covering the PM on a visit to the Tory Faithful in Dudly.

    Listen to what your ordinary Tory thinks of the FM Nicola Sturgeon compared to Jeremy Corbyn. Simply horrendous.

  76. defo says:

    Re Michelle Thomson.
    Will the Tories be doing similar with their legion of MPs and agents under investigation for electoral fraud ?

  77. galamcennalath says:

    defo says:

    Will the Tories be doing similar with their legion of MPs and agents under investigation for electoral fraud ?

    Good rhetorical question! 🙂

    Rules and laws are there for ordinary folks, not them.

    Also, will they be trying the same trick again?

    There one MP in Scotland is going to need a lot of help. Where will the costs of that focused campaigning be allocated?

  78. Annddunfie says:

    “Keep Scotland Tidy” campaign.
    Dunfermline High Street, SNP and Green Party side by side.
    Both pretty busy.
    Lots of SNP balloons etc. In kiddies hands, prams and buggies.

  79. heedtracker says:

    BBC 24 news also massive on SNP fraud, police, fraud, SNP, fraud, both MP’s SNP fraud, police, fraud, SNP, McGarry also hates the SNP now too, cringes beeb Scotland gimp.

    This one’s just another rather nasty little creep to be fair, SNP dont want this SNP fraud, to over-shadow elections, but its “bleeding into” SNP council campaigns too.

    Even London beeb 24 gimp chortles at that bleed thing.

  80. Dr Jim says:

    The return of the despots:
    For hundreds of year the UK has called everybody else in the world unpleasant names in order to justify the pretence of their own arrogant superiority to the population
    then the internet arrived and loads of ordinary people sussed out the divide and conquer strategy that was employed on them to keep them compliantly ignorant of the truth

    So the ordinary folk, the Scots being first because we clocked on to it a long time ago as did the Irish started calling them names back, so the UK reversed the strategy and called everybody else Nationalists (which is what the UK are) and made sure it had bad connotations figuring that it was bad Germanyish sounding and to be abhorred and rejected by all right thinking decent people when what they actually meant was not very bright people or those who chose not to inform themselves otherwise

    For the most part it’s worked pretty well for them but their problem is how to keep it up in an age of public mistrust of newspapers TV and all forms of controlled government media, well, they can’t

    So what we have now is just blatant disregard for the rules of any decent civilised society and a UK government who like Trump has created complete and outright division on partisan grounds and dared the other half to defy them and if they do they are “Saboteurs” “Wreckers” “Enemies of the people” and how very dare they question the great and powerful OZ, I mean Mrs May

    The UK is displaying Nationalism of the very worst type we’ve all seen in black and white newsreels where leaders from history are seen making the same speeches as the Tories do now
    Speeches full of hatred for others of differing views accompanied by clenched fists and wagging fingers and threats of the harm being done to the country from the dissenters within
    We’re being presented now with stage managed slogan filled speeches to hand picked audiences who have been obliged to attend whether they want to or not under threat of sacking, and a blank refusal to allow questions followed by regulated applause at the end and immediate exit by the speaker Mrs May and all of it looks and sounds exactly like Kim Jong Un
    or as I said previous despots from a history none of the real decent people want to see again

    The Tory manifesto will contain nothing but sound bites and slogans about what “We will do” a bit like the Queens speeches to parliament you know the ones “My government” will so and so and yet when it comes to democracy and the will, requests, and or demands of of the Scottish people who are at present members of this United Kingdom we’re told Now is not the time or we will be crushed or we will be removed from the UK parliament which BTW Scotland owns a percentage of and if I’m not mistaken (Robert Peffers can correct me if I’m wrong on this) Scotland had a functioning parliament long before the English and if memory serves the date was around the year of our lord 1236

    Beware friends, for hard times are upon us by unscrupulous people bent on power for powers sake, Long live the King…or despot

  81. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Thepnr, re: Dood-lie

    “Ok everyone, when I mention Nicola Sturgeon, you all give a loud and convincing ‘BOOOO!’ Right, we’re ready to go; remember to make this look natural…and, action!”

    Theresa learns the hard way – never work with animals or children.

  82. HandandShrimp says:

    Not entirely surprised by the NEC decision to not re-select the two MPs currently sitting as independents, although I did think Michelle Thompson might have come back into the fold. However, the whole damned case has rumbled on for so long as to create an air of wrong doing even where there appears to be none, albeit her lawyer was less than professional in his dealings.

    Natalie looks likely to have a court case to go through and that is a difficult place to pitch a campaign from. Also, I am sure I read that Natalie was considering not standing. Not only does she have to focus on the legal case but she is also pregnant.

    Taking a very firm line, the NEC has placed the party in strong position to focus on what the CPS does with the numerous Tories potentially facing court action over election expenses fraud.

  83. Jack Murphy says:

    Thepnr said at 1:26pm:
    “….Listen to what your ordinary Tory thinks of the FM Nicola Sturgeon compared to Jeremy Corbyn. Simply horrendous.

    Extract from today’s Daily Mail about the good folk of Dudley:
    “Twice as many people in Dudley voted Leave than Remain in the referendum last June” 🙁

    How Ruth Davidson MSP can relate in any way to the Tory Party completely baffles me.
    Oh but wait —she can—and she does—–

  84. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Artyhetty @ 13:21:

    I have friends in North England, staunch Labour, see Jeremy as the Messiah and … actually think he has a chance of winning the GE.

    Heh, it’s a kind of secular cult, I suppose. Unfortunately, there’s no limit to the self-delusion of some folks. It will not be a soft landing for them. I wouldn’t mind so much if they weren’t so determined to take us down with them.

    As for 1979, we seem to be in danger of forgetting history here, Rough Bounds. The Callaghan government was so hard up for a majority that they were taking MPs out of hospital on stretchers to vote in the HoC. They were propped up for some time by the Liberals, who eventually got sick of being cynically stiffed by Labour, who kept taking and taking and never giving, so Callaghan in desperation had to turn to the SNP instead. That worked for a while until the SNP reached the very same conclusion that the Liberals did. The last straw was that poison-pill which a Labour MP sneaked into the original referendum bill, and which lost us the referendum despite a majority in favour.

    It was a pathetic offer anyway, but that dagger in the back was the last straw. It was the rank duplicity and arrogant self-centredness of Labour that brought them down, not the actions of the SNP (or indeed the Liberals).

    It was the first visible sign of the decay of Labour that we have come to recognise only too well since, and which has led to the recent debacle in the HoC that Chris illustrates only to well.

  85. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Oops, finger trouble. That last phrase should of course be “only too well”.

  86. David Sillars says:

    I think this article proves the extra benefits of the Scottish government.
    It debunks ” not doing the day job” economically.

  87. Thepnr says:

    I think Theresa May in this cartoon is about to get carried over this cliff together with all the lemmings.

    If she doesn’t get dragged over the cliff she will surely follow the lemmings and jump herself. That’s where we heading, the UK electorate are mostly lemmings, unfortunately even those that are not can escape this fate.

    Stay with the UK and we’re all going over the cliff edge together.

  88. jfngw says:

    Strange bunch these Tories, May think she is doing God’s work (I would probably be sectioned if I thought he was talking to me), and Davidson now actually seems to believes she is First Minister with her ‘we said no’ poster. I fear for their sanity!

  89. Thepnr says:

    I’m utterly sick of this, that earlier post of the Tories booing a mention of Nicola Sturgeon in her speech has been picked up by the absolutely disgusting Express.

    I couldn’t archive else you wouldn’t see the video. So don’t watch if you can’t stomach Daily Express clickbait.

    Also though they play a clip of Nicola Sturgeon from today’s Sky News and she looks absolutely to be in a fighting mood.

    I’m glad she’s spitting mad because we are at war for decency and democracy and we will need to fight with our hearts, souls and minds if we are to win.

    Get angry then get busy doing something about it. Whatever you can.

  90. Footsoldier says:

    Watched BBC national news at 10pm last night. There was a roundup of “today’s electioneering” from the first, second and fourth largest parties at Westminster.

    Why was the third largest party not featured and why is the third largest party at Westminster not screaming from the roof tops about being left out?

  91. Robert Peffers says:

    @The Dog Philosopher says: 22 April, 2017 at 9:57 am:

    ” … even though winning 56 seats out of 59 would have at one time been more than the determining factor.”

    I believe my view of how the SNP see this is fairly simple and I’ve stated it often enough.

    There is actually no such thing as a United Kingdom anymore as the actuality is that Westminster, while still openly claiming to be called, “The United Kingdom”, is not in practice a united kingdom. How can it legally be so?

    It now functions as the de facto parliament of England and has split the equal bipartite union of kingdoms as a quadratic union of unequal countries with Westminster the unelected as such parliament of England. There is no actual parliament of England and thus no members elected as such. Yet they force EVEL and thus can claim anything they wish as English only and exclude everyone else from English matters. Ergo there is already no actual United Kingdom only the country of England with three dominions.

    There was only two remaining kingdoms in Britain in 1707 and thus there are only two kingdoms that could sign up as equally sovereign partners.

    However, the Kingdom of England in 1707 was comprised of the country of England that, under the prevailing rule of law of, “Divine Right of Kings”, prior to 1688, had legally annexed Wales in 1284 and all Ireland in 1542.

    Although the Kingdom of England had long attempted to also annex the Kingdom of Scotland they never legally managed to do so. Even in 1603 when they, even today, claim there was a, “Union of The Crowns”, in 1603, there was no such legal union. Which is why they illegally forced, “The Treaty of Union”, of 1707. Why would they require a Union of kingdoms in 1707 if they already had one in 1603?

    1603 only saw a personal union of the Crowns for James I & VI. Which is why his title was never, “James I of Great Britain & Ireland”. The reason being that Scotland had not been under the Rule of Law of Divine Right since 1320 and under Scots Law the people are legally sovereign.

    Under English law there was only a very slight change from full Divine Right to Constitutional Monarchy in 1688. Which, under only English law, still leaves the Monarchy of England legally Sovereign. How England got round the Law of Divine Right of Kings was to depose their rightful monarch and promise the crow to King Billy & Queen Mary of the House of Orange but, (and a big but), only if they legally contracted to delegate their sovereignty, (Divine Right), to the Parliament of England.

    What followed was what England claims was, “The Jacobite Rebellion”. But, as we say in Scotland, “Och! Haud oan a meenit Jimmy! Hoo kin they Jacobites be rebelling whan they hinnae deposed thir ain king”?

    You cannot, as a Scot, rebel against the King of England that the Parliament of England has deposed and replaced.

    That means the real rebels are the English Parliament who had just deposed their rightful monarch. The Scots parliament was still independent so their monarch had not changed.

    Yet in 1745, going on 40 years after the Treaty of Union, the English army was still slaughtering innocent non-combatants all across the Highland in the wake of the Battle of Culloden.

    So there’s the problem for the SNP as the SG.

    Under the Treaty of Union the two Kingdoms are equally sovereign partners.

    Yet under only English law the Queen of England is legally sovereign but has legally delegated the divine Right, (sovereignty), to only the Parliament of England but the Parliament of England sat and formally ended itself on the last day of April 1707.

    What began on 1 May 1707 was NOT the parliament of the Kingdom of England that had the delegated sovereignty of the monarchy of England. Neither was it the parliament of the Kingdom Of Scotland that the people of Scotland had chosen to delegated, (but not by law but by choice), their sovereignty and the Treaty of Union, (article 19), states that the Scottish, (and hence also the English), legal systems are sacrosanct in perpetuity.

    In other words the Westminster parliament legally has the sovereignty of the Queen of England but not that of the Queen of Scots. So what legal sovereignty they have from the Kingdom of Scotland comes from the legally sovereign people of Scotland but delegated to the representatives they chose in election to represent them.

    Which means in effect that these elected to Westminster to represent the people of Scotland need the express permission of a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland to withdraw from the Treaty and end the Union.

    Not just a majority elected as Westminster MPs to represent them but elected with an expressed mandate to end the Union.

    Now do you get the problem that faces the SNP?

    If they walk out of Westminster without an express mandate to end the union it is an illegal UDI.

    If they get an express mandate from a majority to end the Union it is, at least under Scots law, a legal ending of the Union.

    It will then be up to the other states in the World if they will accept Scotland as an independent state and if they do we are legally independent.

    Now bear in mind that EU, Council of Europe and the United Nations all have written clauses as part of their Human Rights laws and the United Kingdom is signed up to them all. They would find it rather hard to legally get out of that one and the organisations would be hard pressed not to support Scotland’s case.

  92. heedtracker says:

    I fear for their sanity!

    BBC explains to England that it was the blessed Ruth Davidson, what convinced PM May to retain the UK 0.7% aid budget. Is Ruth being groomed for greater UKOK things?

    Splicing in Bill Gates and Ruth Davidson tory BBC style, is pretty good even for these extraordinary con artists,


    “Bill Gates defends Britain’s foreign aid spending

    Microsoft founder urges Theresa May not to cut aid budget in manifesto”


    “Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Conservative leader, told the same event that she believed “passionately” in preserving the 0.7 per cent commitment. Doing so would show that the British people are “good global citizens” as the country prepares to leave the EU, she said.”

    Windows 10, to Ruth Davidson’s hard core yoon tory thuggery and there aint no shyster like a BBC shyster.

    BBC is probably prepping a ferocious tory goon like Ruth for their Lords shyste, a very great British reward for what is a lot of very hard work, blocking Scottish democracy.

    My Slovene girlfriend watches, with UKOK envy:D

  93. call me dave says:

    @David Sillars

    Thanks for that link.

  94. heedtracker says:

    Not tory stinky old The Graun piles in for Ruth D too. She really is a world leader in waiting, what stature, what gravitas, what a tory, is Ruth. Her ego must be about to explode though,

    “The Guardian understands that May’s team was still mulling over the issue as recently as Thursday evening,” but then a proud Scot but tory saviour, stepped and saved us all,

    “The Scottish Conservative leader, Ruth Davidson, has been pushing for the party to recommit to the target . “Ruth’s been vocal about what she believes very publicly over the last few days,” a Scottish Conservative source said. “She’s made her view very clear and the prime minister gave this commitment, and it is a real commitment.”

    Davidson told the BBC it would take “moral courage” for the UK to continue to be one of the leading countries that espoused the benefit of aid not just to the countries that received the cash but also for the nations who gave.”

    UK media has gone completely tory psycho, must a GE soon.

  95. Capella says:

    @ artyhetty – it is just possible that Jeremy Corbyn could win enough seats to challenge the Tories IMO. Labour is the largest political party in Europe. If they can communicate their policies, which are popular, with their members and young people via social media, they might just get through the MSM propaganda.

    They can expect nothing but smear from the British MSM of course.

    I discovered, through a talk given by an American Prof of Economics, Richard Wolff, that Labour support workplace democracy, nationalising the railways, state funding for worker buyouts and other policies which polls show the electorate support.

    It would take a miracle for the message to get across, but miracles sometimes do happen.

  96. heedtracker says:

    Right on cue, Severin rams home vote anyone but SNP,

    “MP Michelle Thomson will not contest Edinburgh West seat
    Former SNP member says she is disappointed by party executive’s decision to bar her from standing due to ongoing fraud investigation

    Michelle Thomson has sat as an independent MP in the Commons since she resigned the SNP whip in late 2015.

    Severin Carrell Scotland editor

    In a further sign that Theresa May’s decision to call a snap election has caught the party by surprise, the SNP said it needed another week to find candidates for Thomson’s former seat andfour other Scottish constituencies not held by the SNP”

    Severin makes NO mention of Fluffie Mundell in the frame for election fraud, natch.

  97. galamcennalath says:

    jfngw says:

    May think she is doing God’s work

    She should check out her deity carefully. Be on the lookout for a tail and cloven feet!

  98. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Capella @ 15:30:

    it is just possible that Jeremy Corbyn could win enough seats to challenge the Tories IMO. Labour is the largest political party in Europe.

    Live the dream. Cos that’s all it is. And in case you missed the point of the cartoon, Labour aren’t in Europe any more. Just collaborating with the Tories in leaving.

    Post-failure, don’t blame the media either, for all their faults. Corbyn is just Labour’s latest dead end.

    If the Tories lose their majority, it’s far more likely because of losses in England to the LibDems, as Remain voters take their revenge. Not that I’m holding out too much on that front either.

  99. defo says:

    Look who’s smearing now.

    To a yoon at Craig Murrays place.

    Reply ?
    April 22, 2017 at 03:13
    “A moratorium should mean halting fracking, even if on a temporary basis. But the SNP has been funding test-drilling in the central belt of Scotland.” Without source, nor quote.

    “Their fake moratorium applies to commercial operations—which were not happening anyway—but doesn’t apply to exploration, which continues.” Rambling. Are you feeling the pent up, frustrated rage yet ?

    “The people of the Milton housing scheme in North Glasgow are discovering fracking might be coming to their doorsteps soon.”
    “Might” they !

    “Years ago, before the moratorium, Glasgow’s planners opposed the granting of such licences in Milton because of the impact on the local community—but they were overruled.”
    “Years ago”. Oooft. This wouldn’t get a C at Nat5 in propaganda.

    “Locals who saw first minister Nicola Sturgeon’s moratorium as a timely reprieve now feel conned.”
    Her and her 17 cats maybe. That’s certainly not them hanging about like extras in the tag pic outside Grangemouth.

    “In the forthcoming council elections on 4 May, the SNP is expected to win control of Glasgow.”
    And that certainty is what’s driving our yoonatic friend here over the edge.
    Aahh. The schaedenfreud. It’s almost exquisite, in it’s deliciousness.

    Hi Fred. Long time away. Still flaming away like fuck mate. That’s the stuff. Let it out. You’ve known haven’t you, deep down, for years that the union games a bogey. But credit to you, you’re still banging away

    “The ruling Labour group has cut over £300 million from Glasgow’s services—cuts passed on to them by the SNP government.”.

    Who inherited much of the burden from London, and hey, even the dogs in the street know that when the books at city chambers are opened up, there will be a sudden outbreak of squeaky bum syndrome. A fine job they have done, these last half century or so. Monys a broon envelope passed, As for the worst life expectancy rates in the known universe…

    “That will concentrate a lot of the arguments taking place around the independence movement.”
    Fuck yeah. A non-story smear will counter Nuclear weapon storage and therefore targeting !

    You asked for a comment Zeke.
    The last line quoted sums it up. All filler, no killer. Unionist smearing. An extra rubbish effort.

  100. geeo says:

    Theresa May claims the election is to “strengthen” her brexit negotiation hand.

    Oor pal Guy says otherwise….

  101. John Thomson says:

    I think or just maybe I have stumbled onto something “she looks like waiting for the last one and then pounce bugger if I’m last”

    He he love these cartoons you can have a lot of fun in the bath. Keep the Faith

  102. galamcennalath says:

    geeo says:

    Oor pal Guy says otherwi

    Aye, the little Greater Englanders are in for their biggest shock since …. well, hard to say when such a potentially huge upheaval last occurred to the entire fabric of state and society!

  103. Dr Jim says:

    Investigations by the BBC have uncovered, Sources close to the First Minister Nicola Sturgeon claim, Insiders at official level within the SNP have expressed, There have been calls for the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon secretly wants, Secret SNP documents have revealed, Sturgeon furious at, Sturgeon slapped down by, SNP worried that,

    They’re pissing me off with this repetitive non evidenced shit we’ve been putting up with for years by the media they treat it like entertainment celebrity news and I’m an old man on the edge as it is

    If this stuff gives me a heart attack and kills me I’ll haunt the Bastirts tae death

  104. Jack Murphy says:

    Re Ian Murray,Labour’s MP in Scotland,Edinburgh South Constituency.
    Just in case you thought your eyes and ears were playing tricks here’s The Times:

    “Labour’s only MP in Scotland has said that he would serve in a Jeremy Corbyn-led government,months after suggesting his party leader was unfit for his role and quitting the shadow cabinet in protest.” [!!!]

    Accompanied by a nice wee photo:
    “Ian Murray was joined by Kezia Dugdale as he launched his campaign in Edinburgh”.

  105. Thepnr says:

    If this stuff gives me a heart attack and kills me I’ll haunt the Bastirts tae death

    LOL Brilliant Dr Jim I nearly blew a gasket 🙂

  106. heedtracker says:

    If this stuff gives me a heart attack and kills me I’ll haunt the Bastirts tae death

    God’s a kidder, so you’ll probably come back as tory zoomer, or worse, a UKOK hack in Scotland like Severin, desperately undermining and monstering Scottish democracy for a living, if there is anything left, by the time Pacific Quay roasters are finished.

  107. Robert Peffers says:

    @The Rough Bounds. says: 22 April, 2017 at 12:36 pm:

    “I remember in 1979 how the SNP supported a vote of No Confidence in the Labour Government. Jim Callaghan asked the SNP for three weeks so that he could come up with something. Gordon Wilson, SNP leader, said No Deal and in spite of the general membership of the SNP pulling their hair out in despair at the stupidity of our leadership they helped to bring down Callaghan’s Government.”

    I’ll say no more than that my memory of the 1979 election and the SNP’s hand in it differs somewhat from your own and the actual statistics of the result tend to support my memory rather than yours.

  108. John Young says:

    In the 2015 General Election SNP plus Greens gained over 50% of the vote in Scotland.

    Could Patrick and Nicola have an identical statement in their individual party’s manifestos such as…. “This party supports an independent Scotland. If all parties who support an Independent Scotland gain over 50% of the vote on June 8th, then Scotland will be declared an Independent country and the Act of the Union will be dissolved”

  109. RogueCoder says:

    Afternoon, folks! I know you’re all being asked for A LOT right now, but if you can spare a few pennies towards #ScotRef (and #GE17) campaign materials, that would be smashing.

    We’re gonna commission the superb Colin Dunn to design a series of pro-indy and anti-Tory campaign postcards and fact-based materials to distribute before the general election. Every little helps!

  110. Robert Peffers says:

    The Rough Bounds. says: 22 April, 2017 at 12:36 pm

    “Jim Callaghan asked the SNP for three weeks so that he could come up with something. Gordon Wilson, SNP leader, said No Deal and in spite of the general membership of the SNP pulling their hair out in despair at the stupidity of our leadership they helped to bring down Callaghan’s Government.

    Let’s see if we can jog The Rough Bounds, memory just a wee bit, shall we?

    I cite :-

  111. Robert Peffers says:

    @call me dave says: 22 April, 2017 at 1:13 pm:

    “From shortbread web site:
    The SNP’s national executive has ruled not to endorse a sitting MP as a candidate in the general election.”

    Not surprising seeing as the lady is no longer a member of the SNP and the rules are that the party cannot stand a candidate who is not a member of the party.

    Now I have every sympathy with the lady and I also believe her innocent. However, she resigned the whip and thus made herself a non-member of the party and rules are rules. I’m sure the lady understands that the cause of her problem is not the SNP but the dark side of the MSM and opposition parties who made such a campaign against her.

    Note also the rather significant lack of a campaign against the Present Tory Party Members now under police investigations and the past lack of campaigns against sitting Westminster unionists who were actually convicted.

  112. Nana says:


    Have a laugh folks Janey Godley voices over Gisela Allen a ukipper bampot

    video here

  113. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Let’s see if we can jog The Rough Bounds, memory just a wee bit, shall we?

    I cite :-

    Won’t make one iota of difference to those The Rough Bounds and those of similar ilk. That’s a mind that is made up and nothing will ever change it. Even the actual truth from the mouth of Callaghan they will find some way to contort it to someone else’s fault but their own. That’s how twisted such people are; that’s how deep their visceral hatred of all things SNP runs. Nose well out of joint.

  114. Breeks says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    22 April, 2017 at 3:23 pm

    ” … even though winning 56 seats out of 59 would have at one time been more than the determining factor.”
    I believe my view of how the SNP see this is fairly simple and I’ve stated it often enough”.

    You have said it often Robert, and I’m glad you have, however I want to ask you a pedantic question.

    Is International recognition of an unlawful situation more dominant than an absence of recognition for correct legal legitimacy?

    I know, in day to day usage, obviously it is, but if we forget the established everyday convention for the moment, if or when the matter is tested in a Constitutional court, isn’t legal legitimacy bound to be the dominant criterion over popular convention? Even if that convention has survived for 300 years, that doesn’t make it valid.

    The Union survives because it has day to day recognition, and it has been accepted as the “normal” convention, even my many Scots who support independence, but the issue of sovereignty was not, and never has been properly resolved. The Act of Union is built upon the premise that a thing was done, but that was thing which cannot be done.

    Once that principle is understood, neither historic convention nor popularly accepted recognition can rescue the Union from its fundamental lack of legal competence. This is no discretion about it, nor choice to be made. If a contract claims to do a thing that cannot be done, it is unenforceable in law and thus void as a contract, and it doesn’t matter a jot whether both parties dispute it or not. Void is void. An unenforceable contract is a contract that doesn’t exist.

    If we challenge the Act of Union, we challenge Westminster to reconcile how Scottish popular sovereignty can be both properly respected and administered by a UK parliament. If that cannot be done, without subjugation of Scottish sovereignty, then the Act of Union is not legally competent.

    “Joined” sovereignty just doesn’t work. A close derivative, “joint” sovereignty could work, but only in a confederation of equally sovereign Nation states which govern by consensual agreement, and by some arrangement that would give both Scottish and English sovereignties a power of sovereign veto over any and all joint decisions.

    The first important principle is that Westminster professes to administer a single joined sovereignty, not joint sovereignty, but the nature of Scottish sovereignty and English sovereignty make this technically impossible.

    The second important principle to establish is whether there is any discretion in how the issue is resolved. By that I mean there is no need for any referendum, no need for any electoral majority or public mandate. None of these can change or even influence the legitimacy or otherwise of the Act of Union.

    Isn’t it the case that however awkward the consequences, sovereign legitimacy is an absolute condition, and there is no opportunity for either partial legitimacy, or justice by degree?

    This brings the UK’s constitution to breaking point. It is not a UDI. The Union could still survive intact if, but only if, Westminster was to implement sweeping reforms which empowered both respective Scottish and English Parliaments to have a sovereign veto over every Westminster decision,.. but the reality of that can of worms would make Independence seem like childsplay by comparison.

  115. Robert Peffers says:

    @katherine hamilton says: 22 April, 2017 at 1:18 pm:

    ” … Callaghan himself said it was the abstentions in his own party that sold the jerseys.
    Do try and keep up.”

    N’ that’s him telt!


  116. Macart says:


    With all due respects to the people of Dudley, a. I’m none too enthused about their Prime Minister either. b. What they think about Scots, Scotland or Scotland’s First Minister is entirely unimportant.

    As for the Express? Pretty much ditto.

    The onslaught by the media has been relentless and savage since May declared her arse saving (cough)snap election. Clearly a rinse and repeat exercise of 2015’s Tartan Barbarians campaign. Use the Scots as bogie men and an unthinking UK electorate buys into the meeja bullshit because… witches.

    The people of Scotland only need concern themselves with one thing and one thing only.

    What KIND of country do we want to live in?

    This general election, much like the referendum which will be held in the next eighteen months, is about governance by a Tory dominated Westminster which we didn’t elect.

    Something for folks to think about here:

    The Scottish government have done the people of England no harm whatsoever. Can the same be said of the UK governments past and present?

    Somehow I think, in today’s right wing mass media age, this simple question will not be asked by many. Personally I reckon we focus on ensuring we return as many of the current crop of SNP MPs a humanly possible. In the short term I believe our electorate are going to need as much protection of their rights as we can muster.

  117. jfngw says:

    BBC Scotland news at 16:40 spends an inordinate amount of time on two MP’s that are no longer in the SNP and seem to not grasp that if they are no longer SNP members they cannot stand as SNP candidates. Plus a full recap of any accusations.

    Then a quick positive tour round the non independence parties (I don’t recall the Green’s being mentioned).

  118. Stoker says:

    Here you go folks! This one’s worth bookmarking!

    Indy Matters

  119. Thepnr says:


    I know what you say is right and I’m rarely happy with myself when I get angry at the media or anyone else that lies about Scotland or Scottish governance.

    It really is relentless and one of the points of this is to try and demoralise people like me, like you and all the others that support Independence.

    We can never take them on financially or with positive news stories and we surely know that now. All we each of us have is our individual voices so we must use them. I really beleive that between now and the next referendum i can personally persuade ten who never voted Yes first time around to do so this time.

    If not ten then five, it doesn’t matter what the figure is but only by persuading others will we win. I honestly do fear for the future if we fail.

    That might sound dramatic but open your eyes and have a look around. It may not have affected you personally but another five years of Tory government will. From where I’m sitting it doesn’t look good, something has gone wrong with the UK political system.

    Too many people brainwashed and willing to accept anything and the brainwashing has been going on for years in particular the MSM’s hatred of anything foreign. That by the way includes us.

    Hence the booing of the FM in Dudley, a systematic demonising of the Scots, Scotland and our Parliament.

    No wonder I can get angry. I can also fight back, and I will.

  120. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Macart @ 17:07:

    The Scottish government have done the people of England no harm whatsoever.

    True that. Amazing how much hate can be whipped up over it too. The Tories just cannot tolerate any dissent or deviation from their party line, which is what lies behind their insidious “divisive” schtick. Too many people both north and south of the border have been so easily fooled, or dragooned, it seems. Including a shell-shocked Labour Party.

    It feels as if we’re in a boat with a nutcase who’s busily priming an explosive charge on the hull below the waterline while holding a pistol on us to keep us from taking to the lifeboat.

  121. Liz g says:

    John Young @ 4.39
    50% of what though?
    This election is based on seat’s won…50% of seats?
    50% of those able to vote?
    50% of those who actually vote?
    Who gets to decide… Westminster…The Media????

    We already have the Tories assuming that this vote tacks on the bits missing from the EU referendum… Single market ect,it would just be muddying the issues even more.
    Why bother,we have a mandated vote lined up for later that will be a clear vote.
    Let the English get on with their election,we can’t influence the results anyway.
    We can have our own vote as planned
    And hopefully be putting a lot of clear blue water between the yes and no positions.

    We only need to use the UK general election as a vote to bring our MWPs home if Westminster try to prevent a referendum when we want one,and there can be many a slip between the cup and the lip before that ones due!

  122. heedtracker says:

    No wonder I can get angry. I can also fight back, and I will.

    UKOK propaganda is everywhere though. Neil Oliver’s got a new BBC tv series out called the Celts, or at least its on BBC 4 late and he’s all over Europe looking at them, the Celts. But he kicks off his very first The Celts show with “The Boudicca rebellions were the Celts last stand in Britain…”

    Its one of that creep’s biggest lies about the history of Britain, let alone Scotland, since his last load, say in his shows BBC archeo stuff from Brodgar on Orkney.

    How can a Scot be so determined to lie so hard at millions of people, about Scotland?

    I know, there’s stacks of cash when you’re an Olympic level Scotch cringing tractor ed.

    Arise Sir arse licker Oliver, of the Scotland region of greater England, cheques in the post.

  123. schrodingers cat says:

    rogue coder

    thanks for all you do, yesnef gathering in dundee today could not have happened without all your hard work

    thanks again

  124. Gfaetheblock says:

    Robert Peffers @ 4.47

    Thomson’s predicament was created by her running a morallly unpleasant business (taking advantage for people in vulnerable situations) and for using a dodgy lawyer. She may or not be guilt of an actual crime, this has not been established. However, if she had not ran this business with those people, there would be no story for the press to run. If the SNP had vetted her properly, she would never have become an MP. The press are just reporting a situation that she created and the SNP allowed themselves to get in.

  125. schrodingers cat says:

    also a big tank you to all of the wingers who helped to make yesnef’s fae fife tae dundee march and event such a success

  126. Macart says:


    It should get us angry. Worse, it should get everyone angry that their government and their media behave like this and it’s beyond heartbreaking that it doesn’t.

    The two institutions we charge with our protection, with a duty of care and responsibility, actively assault major demographics of their own populations for personal gain.

    We win the fight where and when it counts fella. 50% of our fellow Scots know what needs doing. We each get out there and convince at least one other person.

    The establishment won’t quit what they’re doing fer sure, but neither will we.

  127. liz says:

    @Gfaetheblock – I don’t normally bother replying to trolls, but Michelle T has never been charged with anything.

    Her business used this lawyer not her, the people who sold their houses were told they could get more on the open market but wanted a quick sale.
    These folk were selling ex council houses- so do they have any right to claim the high moral ground, whichh they made a big profit from.
    Have you never watched Homes under the Hammer?
    One of BBCs successful progs.

    Lastly, Aamer Anwar is still her lawyer, and there is such a thing as defamation

  128. heedtracker says:

    Gfaetheblock says:
    22 April, 2017 at 6:09 pm
    Robert Peffers @ 4.47

    She’s not been convicted of anything. You need to watch slander law chum. If it wasn’t this it would be something else, for our ghastly media.

  129. Footsoldier says:

    Donaldo MacKinnon, new Director of BBC Scotland, is having no effect whatsoever in her new role. Still the same old BBC bias. Why is she not challenging London news output which fails to mention the SNP in their nightly analysis of the current hustings.

    Probably has to toe the line or else – oot!

  130. Ken500 says:

    Who would vote for May, Corbyn, Farron or Lucas. What a choice. They are all ridiculous.

    Thank goodness for the SNP. At least they are competent and real. Roll on Independence. To make Scotland even better.

  131. Gfaetheblock says:

    I actually have sympathy for Thomson, it must be horrible to have this hanging around for such period of time and if no charges are brought, then she has lost her job because of this delay and the lack of support from the SNP. The Scottish legal system has let her and us down here.

    My issue was calling this out as a construct of the evil press, when it is clearly not.

  132. defo says:

    Is it possible to stand for the mother of all parliaments, stop sniggering, whilst under investigation for a criminal offence ?

    Seems like it is, according to this surprisingly sparse document.

    There is a disclaimer, “The full range of disqualifications is complex and if you are in any
    doubt about whether you are disqualified, you must do everything
    you can to check that you are not disqualified before submitting your
    nomination papers.”

    But no link to said “complex” disqualifications.
    Lawyer land. Maybe Fluffy will know ? He’d best had found out, at least 😉

  133. Thepnr says:


    I doubt many or any on the side of Independence expected any change whatsoever with the promotion of Donaldo MacKinnon in BBC Scotland.

    There’s only one thing you can do to show your displeasure and fight back and that is refuse to watch the BBC and cancel you license. Don’t pay for UK state propaganda to be beamed into your living room. Reject their propaganda as that is what they hope will keep you as a good little slave to the Brutish State.

    Cancel the license. You will be all the happier for doing so, I assure you.

  134. Dr Jim says:

    A short conversation with a non voting No voter:

    Ah jist don’t like that Nicola Sturgeon but (Oh why not?)
    She’s too smart (Is that not what we need?) Aye but she’s jist TOO smart know (Who do you like then?) Ah don’t like any eh them thur aw the same in it fur thursel (Who do you think you’ll vote for) Nah ah don’t vote ah don’t know anough aboot it (Night night then)

  135. Robert Peffers says:

    @Breeks says: 22 April, 2017 at 5:00 pm:

    “You have said it often Robert, and I’m glad you have, however I want to ask you a pedantic question.
    Is International recognition of an unlawful situation more dominant than an absence of recognition for correct legal legitimacy?”

    Yes I believe that in practice it is. Now I may be wrong and there may be some legal bit I’ve missed but I was pointing out the case of Palestine just the other day here on Wings.

    I honestly cannot see any real legal argument that would give Israel the legal right to occupy all former Palestine territory.

    Noam Chomsky Posted in, “News”, on October 5, 2014, ” … and As long as the United States provides the necessary military, economic, diplomatic and ideological support for Israel’s illegal occupation and siege nothing will change.”

    I always try to look on things from both points of view and in international law there is indeed some reason for debate :- The Israeli-occupied territories were parts of Palestine occupied by Israel during the Six-Day War of 1967. The UN called for, “The termination of all claims of ‘states of belligerency’, and that last is an International Court term applied to territory taken by illegal armed invasion.

    However there were complications caused by some such ‘states of belligerency’, territory having previously already been occupied by Jordan and Israel has played upon this ever since with claims along the lines of it wasn’t Palestine territory when they invaded it. They were then backed by both the USA & the UK.

    Yet Palestine has been recognised by over 200 states and been granted Observer Status by the UN. Yet still is not recognised officially because of the USA/UK support and Israel is still settling Palestine Territory.

    Thereby hangs the tale. Even with the law on your side you will not get full legal recognition if the USA and some other powerful UN member states say no.

    In Scotland’s case we would have the advantage of somewhat neutering the former UK’s case and the USA would think twice of opposing us as a member state in the EU.

  136. Rock says:


    “From where I’m sitting it doesn’t look good, something has gone wrong with the UK political system.”

    Was there ever anything right with the UK political system?

  137. pool9 says:

    Sorry, I did the http thing in an earlier attempted post. My bad.

  138. Breeks says:

    @Thepnr 5:28

    If there are days when it wears you down, it’s not exactly a cheerful thought, but I think back to those Scots in 1707 who lived in an Independent Scotland, some of them veterans, widows and orphans who had lost and suffered a great deal, and still had that liberty and dignity taken from them. It lifts my spirits tremendously to think I have the great honour to belong to the generation of Scots who are going to restore that modest and humble dignity.

    For me, that puts dealing with some shitty propaganda and arsehole politicians into perspective. On Independence day, we will touch faith with all those ancestors who had no choice but to endure all the injustice, just as we will also touch faith with the earlier Scottish patriots of 1320 who perhaps did or didn’t understand the massive extent to which their Declaration of Arbroath would protect the very soul of Scotland all these centuries later.

    I don’t feel being proud is the right word to describe how I feel about Scotland. For one thing, whenever I hear a Scot saying he’s proud of something, I have a reflex thought spring to mind – Unionist! But it isn’t that. I’m not proud of being Scottish, I just feel very privileged that I am. It makes me sad that so many Unionists remain blind to that notion, and will never feel that same sense of privilege, even if they lived to be 100.

    It all feels like something very personal to me and intimate, and then, wouldn’t you credit it? I learn somebody in Catalonia has the very same thoughts about his country as I do for mine.

  139. Juteman says:

    What did I miss in Dundee today?

  140. starlaw says:

    Nothing has gone wrong with the UK political system it has always been thus.
    Now however the Internet has provided the means to see it for what it really is.
    A Medieval system dressed to look modern, with a compliant MSM where every person has , and is to know their place, and the serf shall kneel before the Maister and in times of strife or fear The Royal Family will seek to reassure the common folks with their presence, as just an elder member of our great family … looking out for their Subjects.

  141. mike d says:

    Galamcennalath 8.11am.ARE liebor trying to alienate their voters? A party that i voted for literally all my life . Scum who stabbed Scotland in the back.JHC I hate these despicable two faced b******s more than I hate the tories. And that’s saying something in my case

  142. defo says:

    It appears that the CPS have until the 6th of May to bring proceedings against those (allegedly) naughty Tories exceeding campaign expenses on the fly. Time barred to 2 years (on application to law) from last GE.
    Hence Cruella deciding now IS the time.

    Fluffs not quite so lucky.
    “in Scotland, the granting of a warrant to apprehend or cite the accused (if, in relation to an offence alleged to have been committed within the United Kingdom, such warrant is executed without [F653undue] delay)”

  143. mike d says:

    Just had my 2nd Scottish £20 rejected for the umpteenth time today in Bournemouth.eventually had to go to the PO,who reluctantly changed them. Just wish some of you “proudscot but ars****s lived down here,and see how much your precious union is respected. But then again that’s probably never bothered you,because you have probably never been further south than Gretna. You kneecrawling a***lickers. P

  144. Robert Peffers says:

    @Gfaetheblock says: 22 April, 2017 at 6:09 pm:

    “Thomson’s predicament was created by her running a morallly unpleasant business (taking advantage for people in vulnerable situations) and for using a dodgy lawyer.”

    That, Gfaetheblock, is absolute lies and actionable as defamation of character. She did nothing of the sort. Neither illegal nor morally reprehensible.

    Here are a few actual facts. In September 2015, Thomson was accused by The Sunday Times of having built her buy-to-let property portfolio by buying homes from indebted families for below-market prices. In particular, One couple, who had sold their home to Thomson, announced their intent to lodge a complaint with the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission.

    The same day the SNP issued a statement on behalf of Thomson, announcing that she had decided to withdraw herself from the party whip whilst the investigation was ongoing. In resigning the whip, Thomson also gave up her SNP membership and her role as the SNP’s business, innovation and skills spokesperson at Westminster.

    Solicitor Aamer Anwar was instructed to act on her behalf and confirmed that he had contacted Police Scotland on Thomson’s behalf advising them of her wish to assist with their investigation, if or when they wished to speak to her.

    In May 2016, Thomson revealed that the police have not contacted her about this investigation, more than eight months after the initial allegations appeared in the press. In September 2016, Police Scotland announced that: “There is no investigation into Michelle Thomson”.

    Thomson was also referred to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards in relation to her property dealings but the commissioner decided not to proceed as the allegations related to before Thomson became an MP.

    “She may or not be guilt of an actual crime, this has not been established.”

    Oh! Yes it has. Read the abov and what follows.

    However, if she had not ran this business with those people, there would be no story for the press to run.”

    Utter pish! She ran a legitimate business and in point of legal fact the action against her lawyer who also faced no criminal charges, was in regard to the Law Society claiming he knew that the complainants to the law society had got a better price than they should have got by the Bank Loans he organised.

    Here is just a few real facts, Thompson did not contact the couple who complained – they approached her business trying to sell a home when prices were dropping and buyers were scarce. Rather than getting, “done”, they got a bit more for their home than they otherwise would have.

    Which was exactly what got the lawyer into trouble, not with the law, but with the Lay Society. The bank that made the loan made no complaint because they made a profit in a very short time because the loan was paid off in record time.

    No one got done or lost anything except the innocent woman wrongly accused by numpties like you also the Sunday Times.

    The complainants actually got a better price than the market value and got rid of a home they couldn’t otherwise dispose of- now get this, the complainants had bought the council home they had been living in at the usual discounts going at the time so were going to make a big profit anyway but got a bigger profit as Thompson was buying for renting out and thus, with clients waiting for rentals, wanted a quick deal. No one, except the greedy complainants, did anything against the law or reprehensible.

    Then of course, there are people like you, very probably guilty of defamation of character – and that is both criminally and morally reprehensible.

    Sometimes having a good memory is a great advantage.

    Go check my facts if you wish to debate the matter.

  145. Legerwood says:

    Gfaetheblock @ 6.09

    Perhaps you should read this

  146. Robert Peffers says:

    @Gfaetheblock says: 22 April, 2017 at 7:05 pm:

    ” … then she has lost her job because of this delay and the lack of support from the SNP.”

    Best quit while you are still ahead, Gfaetheblock.

    The SNP had no option. In the first place Thompson, to her credit, volunteered to not take the SNP whip and did so for the good of the party. By refusing the Whip she also had to become an independent and lose her party membership.

    Now the SNP cannot endorse her as she is not a party member. Not only that but the SNP could not lose her the job for her job was not with the SNP as she was an independent MP.

    There is nothing stopping her from legally standing for election again as an independent MP but has chosen, probably because she is pregnant, not to stand again.

    You really should think twice before repeating things published in the gutter press.

  147. Gfaetheblock says:

    Robert Peffers

    Ok, let’s take you version as fact. Why has she not been allowed back into the SNP and why has the party treated her so poorly?

  148. Ghillie says:

    Breeks @ 7.40 pm

    Very very well said = )

    And Robert Peffers and Legerwood, good call out.

  149. Liz g says:

    Robert Peffers @ 7.17
    I don’t think that it will just be membership of the EU that will cause the US to “caw canny” with us.
    Our position in the N.Atlantic will I think be reason enough for the US to hedge it’s bets.
    A position that poor Palestine doesn’t enjoy.

  150. Stoker says:

    Folks, be aware, be prepared!

    I don’t know how many of you noticed the BBC text service slipping this one quietly through under the radar over the easter weekend?

    It’s their manufactured (pardon the pun) update on one of their anti-Indy angles.

    They’ve been pumping this mince out on a regular basis over the past few years now and the figures continue to grow.

    Apparently it was commissioned by Westminster, i think, but the main point is this is what we’re up against. Drip, drip, drip…



  151. Iain says:

    Do Scotland a favour, boycott sky news.

  152. mike d says:

    Breeks 7.40 pm. I know exactly where you are coming from

  153. Thepnr says:


    Thanks for your thoughts.

    I am independentist because I have a soul and care for all who live in Scotland. I know my limitations and I can’t do much for the rest of the world.

    Having an Independent Scotland though can do something, it would give me and a people like me a voice such that we can change things for the better. Wishful thinking? No far from it, I do believe in the principle of from small acorns grow Oak Trees.

    Scotland can be an Oak Tree. That’s why I am an independentist.

  154. Iain says:

    Poor old Scotland, gold rich and oil rich.
    Things can only get worse.
    Remind me again of our southern masters wealth again.

  155. Orri says:

    That’s the trouble, pick up enough momentum and it’s hard to change direction even if it’s to save your life.

  156. ian murray says:

    I wonder if Labour did a face palm when they heard Alex suggesting that Labour should have abstained and forced the Tories to put a non confidence motion about themselves.
    The Tories wanted an election and Corbyn immediately gave it to them.They gained political capital with no loss
    Almost as if Corbyn believes the Tory inity and coming together propaganda
    Alex Salmond is so far ahead of those numpties

  157. Iain says:

    I forgot to say the the richest Europe in renewable energy.

  158. Iain says:

    Life is a bastards, if you’re let it get you down.
    We can change that!
    Vote SNP
    It’s up to you.
    Smash the empire.
    Scotland needs to be free.

  159. Shinty says:

    Breeks – nice post.

    I often think of those before us who have only dreamed of Independence and who were up against more hostility than any of us today can ever imagine.

    Today we are constantly berated by a hostile media. 50 years ago (and more) you were, in addition, being shunned by your neighbour, friends and family.

    The British Establishment is a powerful beast and will not take to losing Scotland. It cannot afford to neither morally nor financially. History has taught us that in abundance.

  160. John from Fife says:

    So how many English jobs are dependent on exports to Scotland !!.

  161. ScottieDog says:

    Might just be me but I think many of the labour old guard and Blairites would be over the moon to see corbyn fight a general election. They are banking on him losing heavily and then the feeling will be that surely he must step down.

    He most likely makes way for a more mainstream neoliberal labour leader and it’s back to business as usual. The English status quo is returned and it won’t matter whether labour or the tories are in power. It will be quite acceptable to the establishment

  162. Shinty says:

    John from Fife – Yes.

    And how many English jobs are dependent on Scottish Exports going through English ports & airports.

  163. Robert Peffers says:

    Gfaetheblock says: 22 April, 2017 at 8:38 pm:

    “Ok, let’s take you version as fact. Why has she not been allowed back into the SNP and why has the party treated her so poorly?”

    First of all it isn’t my version of the facts. It is just the facts.

    The Police Statement that there was no criminal act committed is fact one.

    Others went further than I did ant quoted the Rev Stu’s investigations that gave exact figures that show the complainants made a big profit and got rid of a house when no one was buying houses and they went to her and asked for her to buy the house – no one twisted their arms.

    The Bank that made the loan made a profit and had no complaint. I’ve no doubt the Lawyer got paid for his services. No criminal act was committed by the lawyer but he got into trouble for what could have been a fraud if the bank loan had not been repaid but it was repaid. The Law society just did not approve of the Lawyer getting a loan for the entire transaction and then giving the complainants money from the loan to settle their previous loan.

    It is all proven facts and not anyone’s version of facts.

    Then, where did you get the idea the SNP treated the lady badly?

    In the first place she got elected as an SNP MP with the SNP members money and the SNP party workers help.

    The party doesn’t pay the MP’s wages the taxpayer does and Ms Thompson got her MP’s wages, expenses and her subsidised food and drink and other privileges like every other MP. She volunteered to become an independent and in all probability did not wish to stand again as she had probably had enough hassle and strife from the MSM and the Yoons. She is also pregnant and a partner in a business and will have her MP’s pension.

  164. defo says:

    “Campaign group Leave.EU is under investigation over “potential offences” during last year’s Brexit referendum.
    The Electoral Commission is looking into the spending returns of the group, saying there were “reasonable grounds” to suspect offences may have occurred.
    Leave.EU has faced claims it failed to declare advice given by an American social media strategy firm.
    Leave.EU founder Arron Banks said he would “vigorously” contest the allegations.
    The group, which was backed by then UKIP leader Nigel Farage, ran a separate campaign to Vote Leave, the officially-designated group backed by senior Tories.
    The Guardian reported last month that Leave.EU was advised by Cambridge Analytica, a company hired by Donald Trump during his US election campaign, which uses artificial intelligence to personalise political messages according to the things voters say and “like” on Facebook.”

    Orwellian level Scary. I doubt it comes cheap.

    Arrogant Arron might end up sharing sleeping space in the Tory wing of the Scrubs, rather than despoiling the already sullied title of MP.
    I see a rather large donation headed to Mays lot. Suitably laundered obvs. Evil doesn’t mean stupid.

  165. Robert Peffers says:

    @Liz g says: 22 April, 2017 at 8:50 pm:

    “I don’t think that it will just be membership of the EU that will cause the US to “caw canny” with us.
    Our position in the N.Atlantic will I think be reason enough for the US to hedge it’s bets.
    A position that poor Palestine doesn’t enjoy.”

    You are, of course right but perhaps the USA could make things hard for a newly independent Scotland. However, “Every little helps”, as the monkey said when it piddled in the sea.

  166. Iain says:

    England will vote want England wants!
    But Scotland is a different country
    Freedom is up to you.

  167. caz m says:

    ScottieDog 9.35pm

    Re; Labour leader.

    “They are banking on him losing heavily and then the feeling will be that surely he must step down.”

    There is strong rumours that Mrs Ed Balls is eyeing up the job.

    Bets are “pouring in” backing Yvette Cooper to become the next Labour leader putting her joint favourite with Keir Starmer, a bookmaker has said.

  168. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    I feel sorry for Michelle Thomson, the system – and not the SNP – has dealt her a very poor deal. (Unlike those, it seems, who have the establishment behind them, such as Liar Carmichael.)

    The old saying applies: justice delayed is justice denied.

  169. Faltdubh says:

    Tories set to gain 12 seats in Scotland according to a Panelbase poll I believe. Think it’s the Sunday Times.

    We need to get our vote out! This is as vital as the last time.

  170. caz m says:

    Any updates from the Rally in Dundee today.

    Pics and vids please or links.


    Come in Ronnie Anderson, yer times up.

  171. Iain says:

    Absolutely, pissed but Scotland for ever!

  172. galamcennalath says:


    Even if true, that would mean the SNP with 43-44 seats! Still a landslide.

  173. Robert Peffers says:

    @Thepnr says: 22 April, 2017 at 9:01 pm:

    ” … Having an Independent Scotland though can do something, it would give me and a people like me a voice such that we can change things for the better. Wishful thinking? No far from it, I do believe in the principle of from small acorns grow Oak Trees.”

    Bear in mind, Thrpnr, that no other small nation on the planet has made such a great and good contribution to the World than poor, wee, and stupid Scotland.

    In every field of science, philosophy, physics, medicine, engineering, pharmaceuticals, environmental science, electronics Scotland was to the fore.

    Even in economics and mathematics and many, many discoveries and inventions that have benefited the World.

    Many things the average Scot has never even heard of and more than a few we invented or discovered that others took credit for.

    We can, as again an independent nation, regain that force for good.

  174. Fireproofjim says:

    According to Sky news the poll was for the Sunday Post and showed a seven seat gain for the Tories with 27% of the SNP still away ahead.

  175. Iain says:

    Don’t give in to Yoon propaganda.

  176. The Rough Bounds says:

    The point I was trying to make wasn’t that ‘the SNP let the Tories in’. They didn’t. Callaghan lost that election in ’79 for several reasons. The SNP couldn’t be blamed for any of them.

    My point was that by not allowing Callaghan the extra time he asked for, it was made to appear that the SNP was keen to bring his Labour Government down,
    and it left us open to the accusation (lie) that we wanted the Tories in as soon as possible.

    Regarding the suggestion that I am ”new to the debate”, I can only add that by 1979 I had already been an SNP member for 17 years. Now go ahead and do your worst.

    Oh, I nearly forgot, there are still far too many people posting who have not as yet learned the difference between ‘their, there, they’re, your and you’re.”

  177. jfngw says:


    I presume this is because the Labour vote has collapsed and these ‘socialists’ have now moved to the Tories. Scratch many Labour socialists and you will find the union trumps their imagined socialist ideals.

  178. Iain says:

    We are going to win
    It won’t be easy.
    Scotland is worth it!

  179. Thepnr says:

    I won’t be listening to what the polls have to say from here on in. I won’t allow myself to be manipulated or lied too.

    I will just soldier on in my efforts to convince others to vote for pro-Indy parties in the council elections. SNP only at the GE and YES in our next referendum.

    No distractions and eyes on the prize. Won’t be fooled again.

  180. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath @ 22:10,

    Oh, we all believe polls, of course. While I can see a worst-case loss for the SNP of a handful, since the 2015 surge was – don’t forget – far greater than most anyone expected beforehand, I find it hard to credit a swing away that great. These have been by far the best MPs Scotland has ever had.

    But if so, it would surely be “peak Con”! Given what’s coming with Brexit, which is why Theresa is going for broke now.

    Or a joke, if the pollsters reckon Labour are going to get any seats back, even allowing for some tactical voting. More likely that this election, hard on the heels of the local elections, will spell Nemesis for them.

  181. Sinky says:

    Sunday Post reports Tories will win eight seats in Scotland.

    Which bookie will give me the best odds against that?

    Profits of which I will donate to the SNP Indy Ref2 campaign fund.

  182. The Dog Philosopher says:

    I think most of today’s posts could rightly be described as ‘The Robert Peffers Problem Page’.

    Thanks for your response earlier, Robert! Much appreciated.

  183. Juteman says:

    Folk shouldn’t worry about any potential Tory increase in votes. The Unionist vote isn’t increasing, it is just coalescing around the biggest Union Flag. The British Labour Party always had to be defeated first.
    It is coming down to a straight fight between Indy and the Tories. Bring it on.

  184. Artyhetty says:

    re;mike d@8.16pm

    They do, the yoons don’t mind being discriminated against when south of the border. Friends said they had their Scottish notes turned down at a garage in Cornwall couple months back. (No cards accepted, which century Cornwall?) Woman at till was very rude, threatening even, very aggressive. Insisted one of them stay while other went to cashpoint a mile away, basically holding someone against their will! Friend said ‘it’s kidnapping!’ jokingly. No voters, laughed at inconvenience, but went along with it. I would have said get the police then, as she had threatened to do.

    If in England, pay for petrol, taxi, stuff u can’t exactly give back over the counter, and if they don’t accept Scottish legal tender, well, they can call the police!

  185. Another Union Dividend says:

    @ Sinky says

    Strange that BBC / Sky paper reviews highlight anti-SNP headlines but NEVER feature Sunday Herald or The National headlines.

    This is why Unionists don’t want broadcasting devolved in order to ensure some kind of balance.

    No one wants an uncritical press but this is ridiculous.

  186. Thepnr says:


    You are exactly right, some labour voters have come over to the Independence side others though have went to the Tories.

    Personally I find that very strange but it is the reality. Some people are just lost causes.

  187. Fireproofjim says:

    Just thought. The Sunday Post being quoted on Sky News for the first time ever, in my recollection.
    Only because there was a poll showing the SNP losing seats to the Tories. It would never be quoted if the SNP were shown in the ascendency. Pure propaganda.

  188. Legerwood says:

    Robert Peffers @ 9.53

    It is not Ms Thomson who is pregnant – it is the other MP, Ms McGarry

  189. ronnie anderson says:

    @ caz-m sos caz ah wiz baby minding today for Angel & Math ( English Scots for Yes ) lol.

    Shrodingers Cat put in ah good shift on his stall, Pete the camera still recovering spent a few hours with us good rally overall.

  190. call me dave says:

    Hootsman declares:

    The SNP’s 54 MPs have been reselected as the party’s candidates in the general election. The party will choose candidates for the remaining five Scottish constituencies by the end of the week, following consultation with local members.

  191. heedtracker says:

    Chris’s satire matched by polls. Graun not interested in anything Scots as per, but it looks like the end of the line for JC. Will Kes being asked to go June 9 too?

    “The Tories are trusted by almost three times as many voters (38%) to handle Brexit negotiations most effectively, compared with 13% for Labour. Even among Remain voters, there is support from many for the way May is handling Brexit. ”

    Take a bow, massed legions of BBC led tory propagandists out there.

  192. DerekM says:

    Oh you can bet we will see all the fake SNP bad stories paraded against the MP`s,it has already started.

    It will be SNP criminals stealing money from your back pockets again as they re-run all the old classics.
    With a new one,central government as they try to dismantle devolution and they will try to use the British people say so to do it.

    Unfortunately for them no matter what they do now independence is inevitable,you can try to slow it down,you can try to fling in roadblocks but in the end you can not defeat the idea.

    Plus the eejits are getting played like rank amateurs,political heavy weights dont make me laugh total unprepared reactionary bullshit more like.

    Though there is one thing the tories have maybe not taken into consideration,even though the polls say blah well we know that is what they usually say,and that is a referendum bounce from remain voters who might have been awakened into voting,pity the Labour party just told them not to vote for them,a bit silly that,the greens should be busting out candidates all over England on a EU ticket,go on guys spend some cash 😉

    Apathy was the main problem all over the UK until ahem we kind of woke up.

  193. heedtracker says:

    I mean, what good job has Mayhem done yet? Its been a catalogue of endless nothings and fcuk ups. Again, well done tory UKOK hack gimpery, of the great UK democracy.

    “Among Remainers, 36% think she is handling Brexit well, while 66% of Leave voters say she is doing a good job. Corbyn beats May when voters are asked who sticks to their principles most: 47% say Corbyn and 46% May. But 55% say May is a strong leader, against 17% for Corbyn”

  194. Thepnr says:


    Your still totally crackers but that’s part of what makes Wings what it is. Let’s just say you have a unique way of getting across your message.

    Luvin it, so never stop doing it. LOL

  195. schrodingers cat says:

    @ caz-m


    loads of photos

  196. Kevin meina says:

    Now I have been campaigning for months in my constituency and I do believe our vote has dipped not significantly amongst the under 50s but in pensionable age significantly.
    The amount of copies of the Mail and Express read by this age group is horrendous and the non stop barrage of anti snp pro British propaganda is impossible to combat.We have no way of countering this and till such a time as we can I really worry.If we lose this time it’s lost for decades if not longer,and ranting on sites like this may make us feel better but will achieve little.
    The number of hard core activists has also dropped significantly We could call upon approx 15 hard core we are currently lucky to get 5.

  197. heedtracker says:

    Thepnr says:
    22 April, 2017 at 11:12 pm

    You need to be to crackers to keep reading Graun’s stuff. Its sold itself as centre left for decades but its clearly now tory as feck, like that awful monstering of poor old JC tomorrow. At least one English broadsheet could have had the decency to give the old trot a fair go.

    Independent’s gone gaga for the FibDems now.

  198. heedtracker says:

    Kevin meina,

    So why is independence now 50/50?

  199. Tinto Chiel says:

    “You need to be to crackers to keep reading Graun’s stuff.”

    Imo, you deserve a Wings gold one for your persistence.

    Daily brainshower required.

  200. Vestas says:

    I’ve been asked about what keeps the “SNP/indy campaign afloat” as its “obviously not what people want”. This is on an English tech blog.

    I simply said : “in Scotland/UK there is one paper in favour of indy, which is US-owned and edited in Cardiff. Despite that 45% (average) of voters vote SNP. Imagine a party in England with 45% SOLID support despite the media being 99% against.”

    Who knows what people “want”?

    Polls can twist it any which way you like but just remember 45% on average back SNP and indy – you can’t break that in any legitimate way.

    Peeps like us are perhaps a wee bit ahead of the game online as that’s the only media we get to use 🙂 Won’t last forever though, the DM readers will work out how to comment elsewhere eventually, despite the captchas 😉

  201. Jock McDonnell says:

    Would it be ridiculous to think this contains a false implication

  202. Dr Jim says:

    Yes it’s Nats have peaked story time again for the tenth year in a row and one day it might come true but what surprises me more is in their search for any anti SNP stuff in the Media is their depth of howling fake smirky optimism that if they so much as win a handful more votes they will somehow declare that and end to Scotland and the Nats

    Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t speak for Scotland one minute and the next it’s Nicola Sturgeons Scotland and her one party state and how they don’t understand why the people don’t get rid of her and somehow miss the point insultingly that we actually vote for her on purpose

    The folk in England have no clue what’s really going on at all except in their minds Scottish people must hate English people and that’s why we want to leave their green and pleasant land, a nice wrapped up easily understood package of crap to dispense to a gullible people
    And who can blame them for not getting it when they don’t know what we know because as we’ve seen with Trump it’s definitely easier to pull the wool over a large countries eyes than a small one

    Yes Nats have peaked again, but I think that’s more a hopeful projected prayer to the Lord Yoon almighty than likely to be ever borne out as a fact

    Predictions, now I’m no political genius as the likes of John McTernan is but here goes SNP 58 with the highest ever vote share increased
    Labour, In England not half as bad as the Tories hope for
    Scottish Labour, a virtual wipeout with no MPs and the lowest ever vote share in history
    Lib Dems in England, Not half bad for the remain vote and a few MPs
    Lib Dems Scotland 1 MP and a dribble more votes
    Tories England, No improvement folk will still vote UKIP
    Tories Scotland, Wipeout no vote increase
    Greens in Scotland, I’m afraid a virtual disappearing act but it won’t be too bad for them because they’ll have got a couple in at the council elections and a small vote increase
    Overall I have a strong feeling we’re going to end up with a lot of people complaining about the money spent on a GE for almost no change and the big story will be how many are the Tories losing due to fraud and Nicola Sturgeon wasn’t crowned Queen by the Scots so her popularity is definitely on the wane and thank God we can depend on the country being held together by Her Brittanic Majesty the real Queen of England goad bless hur

    We’ll probably hear the Europeans laughing from here

  203. caz m says:

    schrodingers cat 11.21pm

    Thanks for the Dundee rally links

    cheers Ronnie Anderson. See you soon.

  204. defo says:

    You would assume that explaining the raison d’être of the Tory party i.e. To protect, and promote the interests of a tiny elite, their kleptocracy propped up by all those useful idiots obvs, might be enough for most sentient organisms who are not in on the wheeze to smell the coffee, but…
    Buy just enough of the mugs and deviants off, to help you achieve power by playing to the base, and you can virtually do wtf you like.

    I can never remember, is it Oceania we’re at war with, or Eurasia ?

  205. K1 says:

    The Libdems are the new messiah…

    *whisltes…always look on the bright side of life…*

  206. HandandShrimp says:

    One of the biggest problems in this vote will be turn out. The council elections are in a couple of weeks and we are already on the trail for a general election.

    Poor turnout will be an issue for May’s credibility too but that is unlikely to stop her getting a sizeable majority.

    There seems to be a rising expectation that the Tories could pick up 8 or so seats In Scotland. That may end up being the case. The SNP could still poll 45% and get 49 seats and be by a country mile the dominant party but if Labour collapses completely then it will be a two horse race and that will benefit Tories (like Ian Murray 🙂 )

    We are going to have to get our vote out and we must somehow convince Labour voters to block the Tories by voting for the SNP, abstaining or sticking with Labour. The one thing that a Labour voter should understand is that if you vote Tory you are voting for the Tories and that is the party of welfare deaths, NHS sell offs and the rape clause. They are no friend to the ordinary voter. If May gets her way the UK will become unrecognisable…and not in a good way. Like Thatcher she will bring division, bitterness and misery.

  207. schrodingers cat says:

    panel base
    SNP 44% (-6) CON 33% (+18) LAB 13% (-11) LDEM 5% (-2)


  208. HandandShrimp says:

    One of the biggest problems in this vote will be turn out. The council elections are in a couple of weeks and we are already on the trail for a general election.

    Poor turnout will be an issue for May’s credibility too but that is unlikely to stop her getting a sizeable majority.

    There seems to be a rising expectation that the Tories could pick up 8 or so seats In Scotland. That may end up being the case. The SNP could still poll 45% and get 49 seats and be by a country mile the dominant party but if Labour collapses completely then it will be a two horse race and that will benefit Tories (like Ian Murray 🙂 )

    We are going to have to get our vote out and we must somehow convince Labour voters to block the Tories by voting for the SNP, abstaining or sticking with Labour. The one thing that a Labour voter should understand is that if you vote Tory you are voting for the Tories and that is the party of welfare deaths, NHS sell offs and the 3rd child clause. They are no friend to the ordinary voter. If May gets her way the UK will become unrecognisable…and not in a good way. Like Thatcher she will bring division, bitterness and misery.

  209. K1 says:

    Scotgoespop on the poll…

    ‘Westminster voting intentions (Panelbase poll) :

    SNP 44%
    Conservatives 33%
    Labour 13%
    Liberal Democrats 5%

    The good news here is that, contrary to the expectations that had been building up as the night wore on, the SNP share of the vote is actually holding up fractionally better in the Panelbase poll than in the Survation poll, meaning that at least some of this much larger Tory surge has come from Labour. The combined vote for the three main unionist parties is just 53%, compared to 54.5% in Survation. The bad news obviously is that the SNP lead is “only” 11%, but with Survation showing something much less dramatic, we can’t rule out the possibility that the Panelbase poll will eventually be looked back on as an extreme outlier that led us completely astray.

    I’ve tended to assume that Labour will probably hold their sole seat due to tactical voting, but there comes a point where their national vote share is so low that all bets are off. Panelbase have them a full 10% lower than they managed even in the Holyrood constituency ballot last year.’

    Could be an outlier…no complacency, so let’s not pay them too much heed…early days yet.

  210. clan rossy says:

    all unionists labour, tory, libdems are nothing but fucking
    scumbags .

    all they care about is there shares, bankbooks,and keeping
    there way of life intact they dont give a fuck about there
    morals or conscience as they have none.

    they would not give a shite if we are colonised as long as we remain in this pernicious union they dont give a fuck food banks poor people or how the rest of scotland is democratically treated.

    in fact they just dont give a fuck about anything as long as its not affecting them.

    i am not a hateful person but my hate and rage is getting stronger by the day by the continuous non stop fucking lies coming from down south and the absolute bunch of wankers from our so called fucking unionists mafioso in holyrood.

    as a famous person once said
    a coward dies a thousand deaths “ie unionists”
    a brave man dies once.

    gone to my bed stressed depressed and absolutely pissed off.

  211. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Last time around, the polls were telling us that it would be another LibCon coalition, but that went flopsy in the end because the Tories took down their junior partners-in-crime. Now we mostly just assume that the Tories will win a majority once again.

    But suppose that’s not what happens. Apparently the Tory caginess about tax rises (note that, Rude Gal) and pensions is already losing them support, while big money has been pouring into the FibDems’ war chest. So what if Labour take a hit in their heartlands (old boundaries, so still some extra advantage) and lose Red Tory Ian but not much else, while the FibDems win back enough seats from the Tories in England to restore a “hung” result? What then?

    Suppose the Tories lose seats but still have a majority, albeit a slimmer one. What kind of mandate would that imply?

    Thought that Brexit was already big trouble? This could be confusion squared – a house of cards in a torrential downpour!

  212. HandandShrimp says:

    I tend to agree with James Kelly that if the early polls big up the Tories and they fall short it will burst Struth’s bubble. Instead of celebrating 5 seats or something they will be faced with “Tories only get half of expected seats in an ultimately disappointing night”.

    I hope the polls are a wake up call to voters that do not want to see any Tories at all.

  213. Thepnr says:

    Ignore the polls, their purpose now is to demoralise and weaken the SNP position.

    Get your badges on and don’t be afraid of sticking your face right up against your neighbors or mates in the pub and setting them straight. It’s absolutely impossible for me to believe that Scotland would vote in a right wing Tory government that would make children and the disabled poorer and transfer that money to the rich.

    If true though then that’s the media for you, there our enemy so we need to discredit them. Anyone reading a newspaper should be laughed at and told they are a fool.

    Not nice but necessary because they are a fool. By the way I don’t believe this poll. More propaganda.

  214. Training Day says:

    The Unionist vote is coalescing around the Tories. Which is ultimately good for us.

    But by God, I feel ashamed to live in the same country as the people who vote for the racist, sectarian, fascist party that is the Tories.

  215. Cadogan Enright says:

    I can see May crashing in the TV debates

    Her stage managed performances with selected audiences to an adoring media and a fawning BBC can’t be dragged out through a general election.

    There will be a little boy watching the parade at some stage who will note the inadequate attire of the emperor

    Could lose votes to Liebdems and Labour in England

  216. Thepnr says:

    OK I’m not going to get out my Irn Bru crate but I am going to talk at each and every opportunity that I get, so must you.

    You too all know one person that needs persuading, then persuade them. Last chance, we must do it now, get in there with the head down.

    Let’s beat these crooked bastards.

  217. Artyhetty says:

    clan rossy@12.26

    Yes, it is maddening. The yoons are a dab hand at pulling the wool over peoples’ eyes, while siphoning away Scotland’s resources to the country of London. They are very good at taking Scotland’s taxes and throwing a few crumbs back, reluctantly! It’s been going on for so long many think it’s normal! But it is not normal, it’s corrupt, oppressive, and abusive.

    More people are becoming immune to the yoon lies, and to their cheating Scotland out of her independence. We need to do what we can to ensure more become immune to the lies and cheating from the yoons. With this illegitimate GE on the cards, as has been pointed out, it is a choice, kf we can call it that, between tory rule for the foreseeable, or Scottish independence.

    Let’s work on getting that message out. That is why we are all here and not sitting reading the pap in the right wing daily rags, the Graun included. Despair not, Scotland will get there, then england can stand on it’s own two feet.

  218. HandandShrimp says:

    Sadly, if May does win a big majority and Labour are left mortally wounded I think the UK is going to become a desperately unpleasant place. The vicious side of Brexit has already been seen in England and I think it will be emboldened. It will become acceptable to be racist and xenophobic and the Tories will use division to grind the faces of the poor and feather the nests of their friends.

    We have to secure a good win for the SNP if for no other reason than as a bulwark against what is coming. The alternative doesn’t bear thinking about.

  219. manandboy says:

    The only two polls worth trusting, are exit polls and the ballot itself.
    Every aspect of Unionist politics is now so corrupt, only the simple minded would trust the polls, the people who can be fooled all the time.

  220. K1 says:

    It’s true though that if Scotland even returns one Tory tae Westminster then the core Labour voters will have been totally responsible for that. Fucking sickening. It won’t ever mean a Tory ‘revival’ let’s be utterly clear about that, it will be simple: A vast majority of former ‘Labour till ah die’ voters will have sold Scotland down the swannee to enable the worst Tory governent we’ll likely ever encounter in our lifetime’s absolute Tory rule for the next 15 tae 20 years.

    Not only that those voters will have lived through Thatcherism and will knowingly condemn their own families and generations to an onslaught of policies designed tae crush the poor, working poor and any other socially inclusive policies that Scotland pride’s itself in, they would rather that fate for Scotland than vote for the socially democratic SNP?

    Aye. We’ll see how the land lies after 8th June. Then if so, Labour will never ever rise again in Scotland. Shower of absolute fucking cunts.

  221. Iain More says:

    I am happy if it comes down to a battle with the evil British Tories. It is not a battle the evil bastirts can win in Scotland. Its Scotland against the Evil Tories.

  222. manandboy says:

    There remains an unanswered question. With victory in the June General Election virtually assured for the Tories, why has Mrs May hired Lynton Crosby?

  223. Artyhetty says:


    Great comment Dr Jim. True enough about folks in england not really having a scoobie about what’s really going on, re Scotland. Friend in NE England getting mad when I said that labour are useless. It occurred to me by one comment she made, that she is of the view that the unionist parties in Scotland are autonomous and not controlled by their masters in London. In other words, Corbyn is great, and not like labour in Scotland who are no opposition to the toxic tories.

    People in england still view labour as an effective opposition, well some do anyway. So the GE is going to be interesting. Labour voters could stay home, knowing their party of choice is useless anyway, or vote for another party, or get out in their masses and vote labour to try to get a change of government anyway, better the devil you know. Is it all to play for? Are the electorate being lead down the garden path? Most likely.

  224. heedtracker says:

    Tinto Chiel

    You have to read, watch and listen to something in teamGB, despite and because its all tory English nat.

    Folk have got money and Graun tories love the Western Isles, who can blame them, on Scottish April days like yesterday?


    “The islanders eventually saw him off the premises but not before the landowner, by now a reviled figure, attempted one last act of sabotage in 1995 by selling Eigg to an unknown German artist. It soon became clear that he had a mottled financial history and the Heritage Trust knew they had to gain ownership and a glob The buyout was concluded for £1.5m with almost the entire amount donated by members of the public, including a mysterious woman who gave £750,000.”

    “About 500 individuals currently own more than half of Scotland; a pattern of land ownership that ongoing land reform legislation is attempting to unstitch. The Eigg experience since the buyout is a powerful rebuke to the owners of Scotland’s big estates…

    “In 2014, the islanders voted by a factor of more than nine to one in favour of Scottish independence. “I don’t think this was down to any great affinity with Scottish nationalism,” said Dougal Tolan, a Londoner who came here three years ago seeking volunteer farm work…

  225. manandboy says:

    By itself, the announcement by Donald Trump that an EU trade agreement with the USA, will take priority over one with the UK, should knock Mrs May back on her heels.
    She isn’t making very good progress, is she?

  226. schrodingers cat says:

    soz for shameless plug, but the merchandise supplied by rogue coder went a long way to paying for the cost of the fae fife tae dundee yesnef rally today

    pls rt and publicise the new ayemail crowd fund. we will all need them in the coming months

    an aside, why was yesnef organising an event in dundee?

    i was brought up in perth, where taking low shots at dundee was a local past time, i moved to aberdeen and found the same attitude.
    i now live in fife and dundee still gets pelters…

    but on sept the 19th 2014 about 5.00 am, i never wished more, that i was a dundonian in my life, but at that moment, i really wished i was from the free yes city of dundee

    dundee shore is being reborn, and so is their identity in the eyes of the scots.

    all our major marches are in glasgow and edinburgh, in the coming months I hope that dundee becomes a new center of protest, today was a beginning, but from such acorns do large oaks grow. Scotland needs yesdundee to flourish more than ever now, and yesnefife will be there to help.

    ps, it was nice to meet flower of scotland at last 🙂

    pps, tayside polis and dundee council were very very helpful 🙂

    ppps, for those involved in organising rallies and marches in glasgow, we really need to topple GCC. good luck

    Once again, thanks to all those who helped today, too numerous to mention, but ye ken who ye are 🙂

  227. schrodingers cat says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    23 April, 2017 at 12:19 am

    One of the biggest problems in this vote will be turn out.

    wot shrimpy says …….

  228. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Tinto Chiel: “Imo, you deserve a Wings gold one for your persistance.”


  229. manandboy says:

    On the subject of influencing the voters:-

    “Cambridge Analytica is just one of many new companies trying to reach voters in novel ways.

    The VOTE LEAVE campaign paid £3.5m to a tiny Canadian company called AggregateIQ, which specialises in targeted Facebook advertising and profiling.

    “The Vote Leave campaign owes a great deal of its success to the work of AggregateIQ,” Vote Leave’s director Dominic Cummings has said.
    “We couldn’t have done it without them.”

    Dirty tricks, Smear & Fear, Fake News, Front Page Lying?
    We aint seen nuthin’ yet.

    Do you think Theresa May will tell us what Lynton Crosby’s budget for GE17 will be? No chance.

  230. Smallaxe says:

    From 2016:
    Why is the BBC giving licence fee cash to the companies who have slashed local journalism?

    Peace Always

  231. geeo says:

    Tory John Lamont sent scurrying away like the rodent he is..rape clause hurting the tories.

  232. Cactus says:


    Here’s a question for a poll that could be put out to the people of the current UK:

    If the people of Scotland DO vote to become an independent country (once again). Do you believe that Westminster will respect Scotland’s democratic choice?


    Always look to the future, your future, our future, Scotland’s future.

  233. galamcennalath says:

    The two full polls just released. They could be outliers, and given they are supposed to have a 3% error, they vary by more than that! And no Green figures.

    IMO they show some of the electorate’s thinking, and it’s about Brexit and the Union, perhaps sometimes both. The Tories are rallying ‘odds and sods’ from everywhere.

    Have they attracted some SNP/Yes/Leave? Looks probable.

    Labour have almost halved since Holyrood last year. Probably Unionists moving to the Tories. And of course any Leave/No have they perfect home with the Tories.

    All this is before campaigning begins. For many, the Brexit experiment still seems a good idea. UK wide it is going to be attacked ferociously and many won’t be quite so sure in 6 weeks. Also, the Union is obviously intertwined with Brexit and as one begins to stink do will the other.

    And one definite piece of positive news. No complacency among SNP supporters this time! They need get off their arses and campaign and vote!

  234. Nana says:

    Use your translate function. Dutch TV station Omroep West has broadcasted a video of the March for Scottish Independence.

    Tories chased by two women holding an anti rape clause sign

    The coming British bloodbath

  235. Sinky says:

    Nana @ 7.58

    Radio Scotland at it again on 8 am news bulletin three hits at SNP including Lib Dems but no quote from Greens

    Scot Goes Pop on latest polls highlighting Tory revival

  236. Nana says:


    The bbc are ‘at it’ all the time. What more can we do, the billboards don’t seem to have bothered them in the slightest. I wish someone with clout would start a ‘do not pay the licence fee’ drive.

    Folks, I posted 8 more links, best wait and see if they appear. I don’t want to get hammered for reposting.

  237. Cactus says:

    Even better…

    Here’s that question that could be put directly to the current PM:

    If the people of Scotland DO vote to become an independent country (once again).

    Will you respect Scotland’s democratic choice?


  238. daodao says:

    Yesterday morning, I posted that “This unexpected GE may turn out to be bad news for the SNP and the cause of Scottish independence.” and that “it is likely that the SNP will lose about 10 of the 56 seats they won at GE2015.”

    I said that “Hopefully, I am being unduly pessimistic.” However, both this morning’s Scotland only polls predict that this will indeed happen, with the main beneficiary being the Tories. Are the polls wrong?

  239. Robert Peffers says:

    @Iain says: 22 April, 2017 at 9:04 pm:

    “Poor old Scotland, gold rich and oil rich.
    Things can only get worse.”

    Oh! No! Just the usual Scottish bad luck.

    We knew all about that gold, Iain. Not just that particular mine, either. There has been gold finds in Britain since Roman times and mostly in Scotland.

    Like everything else in Scotland, though, it is the wrong kind of gold just like it’s the wrong kind of Oil and the wrong kind of gas and according to the rail companies we even have the wrong kind of snow as it totally disrupts our rail services.

    Strikes me that we also have the wrong kind of Tories, Wrong kind of Labour and Wrong kind of LibDems. More than likely too, then we also have the wrong kind of media.

  240. Smallaxe says:

    Good Morning, Nana, on this Sultry Sunny Sunday.
    Thank You, for the links. And when I get the other eight they’ll keep me going until Monday late.
    Kettle’s on!

    Peace Always

  241. galamcennalath says:

    daodao says:

    Are the polls wrong?

    The polls will reflect what they found from their sample. That doesn’t make them any sort of prediction.

    Also, there’s the manner of how questions were asked, and which order. Then the weighting algos they used.

    Do the polls reveal a genuine move to the Tories? At this point in time, yes.

    What does it mean for the GE? A number of seats must now be considered marginal between the SNP and the Tories. The Tories will probably take some.

  242. Robert Louis says:

    Jeez, cheer up guys. So much doom and gloom over some polling data. Would I, who live in his constituency be surprised if the Tories took the seat from Iain Murray? No. Stop getting so worked up over the polls.

    2015 was an extreme result , so we should not be surprised that some folks want to vote Tory – although the Tories at present, are really akin to scum of the very worst kind. The Tories are gathering up the orange order and nutter unionist, BNP, fascist votes. We know these people exist. It is not a surprise. The current Tories have ZERO morality, so they appeal to these kinds of people.

    The key to winning elections is ‘bums on seats’ or people working canvassing and getting the vote out. That is where to divert your frustration – the SNP can use all the help possible, to fight against a rabid right wing media and blatantly biased state broadcaster. As I’ve pointed out previously right now, I can’t get involved directly, but really the SNP needs people to help out. The more, the better. People power. Never assume that ‘others will do it’.

    Just think how sweet it would be to prove the polls wrong. Iain Murray’s seat could still go SNP, and if we recall, it was a nasty snidey smear campaign the last time that prevented it happening.

    So, if you can, help your local SNP. No time to waste.

  243. Ken500 says:

    Imagine having to vote for May, Corbyn, Farron or Lucas. What a nightmare. At least Scotland has the SNP. They are competent and real.

    Remember at the last GE when the pollsters said the SNP would get less than 50 MP’s. Look what happened. Some folk put a bet on it and lost out.

    The Pollsters are at it, They always analyse it wrong, and get away with it. They do it for the money. They are gerrymandering, to influence the result. They get remanded, have to pay a fine but never get censored, To follow the guidelines. They are the bookies’ best friend. Collusion. At the IndyRef in the last week they were still taking money for YES and paying out on NO. They knew the result. The Pollsters helped them. That must be illegal. Defrauding punters.

    May called an Election to cover up the Tories criminality. The EU Ref was illegitimate. A con by the Tories.who committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. UKIP. Committed electoral fraud.

    It will be beneficial if SNP MP’s hold the balance of power. Another IndyRef.

    Bring pack FPTP in Scottish elections and get rid of the troughers.

    Boycott the BBC as much as possible, No listeners/viewers no programmes. Unsubscribe from SKy. There are plenty of alternatives.

    Some WBB to the Borders and the Isles might help. Poor web connections.

  244. Smallaxe says:


    I’m fed up romancing them
    Fed up poll dancing them
    Fed up with chancing them
    Doing the right thing

    I’m fed up just waiting
    To see the polls rating
    Fed up trying to guess
    Let’s all just Vote YES!

    Peace Always

  245. scottieDog says:

    Rather depressing polls to wake up to although maybe reflecting polar indy/anti indy stance.
    Made me realising what we’re up against speaking to my old man.
    Got their mobility car taken off them in November – my step mums freedom and sanity! 3 months later she died.
    My dad was disgusted with DWP, yet will still vote for the tory party.

    In general there are 2 things the tories don’t understand – money and economics.

  246. HandandShrimp says:


    I don’t think the polls are hugely wrong but of course they could well peg back from this point. It will depend on the campaigns, gaffs, external events etc.

    A big Tory win will likely increase independence chances but it will be in the longer term and with a lot of pain along the way. It is something I would prefer not to see.

    May is about as unifying as Thatcher and possibly even more mean spirited and controlling. The UK is about to become as much fun to live in as Erdogan’s Turkey.

  247. Robert Louis says:


    Great post. The fight is on. This is our chance to assert more strongly our faith in Scotland as a nation.

    The SNP need people to help out. It will make a REAL difference. If you are able, you can contact them via this page below;

    Let’s get it on! Not a minute to waste.

  248. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe, if they don’t appear by noon I will try to repost. Pray for me as there could be blood. If the Rev produces his hammers we could come to blows.

    One of them was a video of the Dutch Scottish indy march yesterday, so I’m hoping the links will appear.

    Folks, an elderly fellow gave me a good piece of advice. Short and simple “do not believe polls”

    These polls are there to demoralise and depress you, make you think there is no point voting. Do not fall for their BS.

  249. cearc says:

    The glaring inaccuracy in all of the UKs polls is the disproportionately small sample of people who didn’t vote.

    Labour lost large chunks of voters in each GE after Blair’s first one. Most of these went not to other parties but stopped voting. Many of you will have seen the constituency chart after the last GE which included the ‘didn’t vote party’ which showed ‘didn’t vote’ winning swathes of constituencies across mainly old labour English and Welsh heartlands.

    It seems likely to me that a lot of ‘didn’t voters’ will be amongst the people most harmed by tory policies. If Corbyn can get these people to vote then the polls will be way out.

    Whether he can do it or not is yet be seen (not if the Beeb can help it) but May’s increase is not as certain as the polls show it to be.

    Although this is not relevant to the Scottish vote, getting the vote out is.

    Persuading ‘didn’t voters’ to vote is potentially much more important than seeking to change the voting intentions of voters.

  250. Ken500 says:

    With the Police action and investigation hanging over them will the criminal political Partiies try and rig the election again? Or is that why Farague and the crooks will not be standing. A prison sentence awaits to be implemented. A bit embarrassing. Being led away in chains. Only in the UK do they get away with it. In most other countries they are put in jail. Breaking parliamentary rules with impunity. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. What a shower of ‘psycho bastards’.

    Gerrymandering incites a criminal conviction. Even for the so called ‘experts’ and broadcasters, who always get it wrong for the money. So called ‘experts’ who are miserable failures. Or will the Pollsters just get away with fraudulent analysis again? Breaking a Purdah. Another criminal offence.

  251. Robert Peffers says:

    @Thepnr says: 22 April, 2017 at 10:48 pm:
    ” … some labour voters have come over to the Independence side others though have went to the Tories.”

    In spite of what the opinion polls claim I do not get the feeling that what they are reading from the polls are the way things are actually going.

    The figures, and the media spin, shows that the real deal is Yoons shuffling around from yoon party to other yoon party.

    I do not see too much evidence of indy supporters suddenly becoming Yoons. More a case of desperate Yoons trying to vote tactically to gain yoon seats by moving from one yoon party to another yoon party. Which could see some changes of seats but the overall Yoon vs Indy vote more or less as it was in the last GE.

    So it looks more like Yoon Labour voters voting Tory and that can only lead to a Scottish Labour wipe-out but a few Tory gains. Would that really be a bad thing?

    Remember also that the GE comes after the Local Council elections with Labour looking like getting a hiding to nothing there as well.

  252. Robert Louis says:


    As I understand it, Farage is not standing (he has stood and lost seven times) as an MP, because if he was elected he would have to give up his MEP seat, and would lose his full complete pension rights from the EU (oh, the irony!). Of course I doubt he will ever say this is the case. He is a careerist of the very worst kind.

  253. Robert Peffers says:

    @Legerwood says: 22 April, 2017 at 10:52 pm:

    “It is not Ms Thomson who is pregnant – it is the other MP, Ms McGarry.”

    Aye! I’m wrong – but it really is not that important. The main point being that the SNP couldn’t deselect either of them as both are neither SNP Members nor SNP MPs.

    You will notice that the term used by the media was, “endorse” two sitting MPs. Not, “reselect”, them.

    It is just none too clever media spin. Mind you the SNP won’t be, “endorsing”, any other non-SNP MPs either but may offer some support to the Greens in return for Green support for the SNP. Not quite the same thing though.

    Political parties tend not to endorse other party MPs as a rule.

  254. Stoker says:

    C’mon folks, one of our own are struggling to reach their target.

    For those of you who can afford it, please invest a few quid into this very worthwhile pro-Indy venture.

    At the last official count WOS had 346,305 readers. If we all just threw in a pound or two….well….you can do the sums.
    Amazing, eh?

    I’ll set out a wee challenge for yous here. Give up something for Indy – if you still buy Unionist newspapers try stopping for a week and donate the savings to the ‘ayeMail’ efforts.

    If you’re a choc-o-holic try giving up the stuff just for a week. If you enjoy a pint or two down your saloon of choice just give it a miss for a week. Whatever your vice, set yourself the challenge and donate the savings to ‘ayeMail’.

    We can do it, lets get this project on target. Do it for Scotland.

  255. Ken500 says:

    Canvassing is a pleasure not a chore. Meet and greet so much good folk. Companionship. Anyone able can do it. Even on the phone. Join up and get stuck in. Don’t have regrets. Life is too short. Scotland is fighting for it’s life. It’s very existence. Get stuck in and help out, especially to keep the Tory/Unionists out.

    SNP all the way. Do not deviate. It is the only way for a better more prosperous fairer country. Independence in the EU. Look how far Scotland has come since Devolution. Independence will be even better for a brighter future. Com’n Scotland can do it. YES. There is so much hope around now. What a difference. Any one can be won over with the right information, which is not hard to find.

    Scotland has millions of friends in the rest of the UK, EU and around the world, They will help. A 40million disporia. 10% of US voters. China – ‘Scotland the land of discovery and invention’ .The 2nd in command in Germany – Mr McAllister – fighting for Scotland’s EU rights etc. EU Human rights enshrined in Devolution.

  256. Mikey says:

    Bizarre activities in Kirkcaldy High Street yesterday with Tories canvassing in the street to the sounds of the pipe band that they’d hired for the event. I can’t but help feel that this was completely counter-intuitive as the pipes couldn’t be more Scottish if they tried.

  257. Breeks says:

    The only way this General Election makes any sense and serves any point is if it secures Theresa May a mandate to speak for Scotland in Brexit negotiations.

    At the moment, May enters Brexit negotiations essentially bluffing that she speaks for the whole UK. The truth is debatable but doesn’t matter at this point, because the uncertainty alone makes negotiations pointless.

    The other option, paradoxically is a lifeline to Remainers. This General Election could be a cry for help if the penny has dropped how disastrous Brexit is going to be. A General Election that returned an anti Brexit majority could be lifeline for the UK, although frankly it seems a last gasp forlorn hope. It’s a mighty challenge for Remainers to mobilise for a General Election victory in six weeks, but they do have to try don’t they?

    I’m no fan of Heseltine, but he was right. The Tories have totally blown Brexit. They should have taken the Brexit result as their leverage to negotiate a revised EU membership, backed by the ominous spectre of a British exit from Europe, secured a new deal that could be packaged as a UK victorious in securing concessions, and gone back to the electorate to give the UK a get out of jail reprieve from Brexit. It’s all could’a, would’a, should’a stuff, because it’s all too late, they didn’ae.

    Theresa May has no such instinct or foresight, and is not just way out of her depth, but she is held firm in the jaws of a vice between a thoroughly inflexible Europe and equally intransigent Scotland. This Election seems to me like throwing Theresa’s difficult jigsaw into the air and hoping that a picture becomes clearer when all the pieces fall to Earth. Yup, good luck with that Theresa…

    She doesn’t want a TV debate, because her grasp of government is so shallow and fickle that a TV debate would make it transparent to the whole UK electorate.

    Theresa May hasn’t been holding her tongue to keep her negotiating position secret. She has no negotiating position and hasn’t the nouse to create herself one. Remember that excellent New European piece about England not being a team player? Theresa May is a bunny rabbit frozen in the headlights and doesn’t know what to do.

    It’s not a General Election Theresa needs, it’s an emergency Constitutional Summit with Scotland and Ireland, to pave the way for an amicable and consensual Scottish Independence and Irish reunification, bought for the bargaining price of some kind of economic trade deal and future between the EU and a confederated British Isles. A British confederation which has 2 EU members in Scotland and Ireland, and 1 stroke 2 non EU members in England and Wales. Scotland and Ireland fully compliant with Europe, but with some concessionary free movement and limited trade deal between the component nations of British Isles. Complicated I know, but it’s a target rich environment for some kind of deal.

    It’s not Nicola Sturgeon who needs to get on with the day job, it’s Theresa May who needs to stop faffing about pretending Fortress Britain will survive by holding hands, singing songs, and eating seagulls, and start the inevitable damage limitation deals that Brexit will very soon force upon Westminster.

    Somebody needs to get Theresa May, Nicola Sturgeon, Enda Kenny and Guy Verhofstad locked in a room together, and not let out until there’s a deal struck that makes everybody happy. Personally, I’d give it 10 minutes I reckon. Less if they skipped the coffee.

    Somebody also needs to get Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Tony Hall, and Laura Kuenssberg locked in a room together, somewhere deep in the Tower of London and not let out at all. Ever.

    I could volunteer to run the BBC myself in the meantime, just temporarily mind, just long enough to get Outlander broadcast in Scotland the week before the Election, and just while Mr Hall is otherwise “detained”. Failing that, I volunteer to run the Tower of London… with Gisella Allen who tells me she has some hot-shot idea she needs to research in the field, or a public square or something…

    They also have a problem with Ravens I hear. Rest assured, I’ll make every effort get rid of them….

  258. Ken500 says:

    Farague is set to lose £Millions a year from the EU. The idiocy. Won the battle and lost the war. Will fade into insignificancy. After trying to destroy the world economy. There is still an investigation going on into the embezzled funds in the EU and UK elections. Farague has been funding a Political Party with public funds for years with no account produced. A criminal offence. Now getting found out. The fund manager is the bag man. Illegally laundering the stolen EU money through the illegal tax evading Offshore accounts. Then coming back in ‘donations’. A complete fraud. Finally being uncovered? UK politics is full of fraudsters and crooks. Westminster unionist politicians and their associates fiddling the public purse. Illegally keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act.

    Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion.

    Why crooks join unionists political Parties. For what they can get. That’s why they wanted out of the EU. To embezzle public funds, contracts etc and illegally tax evade. Wasting public money on wasteful and destructive public projects and WMD’s. Starving children and the vulnerable. Illegally maiming and killing millions of innocent people worldwide. Westminster failed unionists greedy ‘bastards’. UK/US illegally bombing the Middle East to bits for what they could get. Causing the biggest migrant crisis in Europe. Migration is caused by UK/US foreign and defence policies. They are Trns in debt and ruining the world economy. Vote them out of Scotland.

  259. Robert Peffers says:

    @Kevin meina says: 22 April, 2017 at 11:23 pm:

    ” … We have no way of countering this and till such a time as we can I really worry.If we lose this time it’s lost for decades if not longer …”

    Yeah! yeah! Yeah!

    I’ve been hearing that same claim every time the SNP has suffered a setback since the mid-1940s. Yet here we are on the cusp of independence. That’s just the way things work when going for independence.

    It’s always a bumpy road but the progress is always an overall positive.

    Victor Hugo (1802-1885) – French novelist, poet, playwright and historian wrote in the final chapter of, “Histoire d’un Crime”, (“The History of a Crime”), his account of the French coup d’état of 1851 that brought Napoleon III to power.

    “On resiste a l’invasion des armees; on ne resiste pas a l’invasion des idees”

    “One can resist the invasion of armies; one cannot resist the invasion of ideas.”

    This phrase is usually misquoted in English as, “No one can resist an idea whose time has come”, but Victor Hugo never said or wrote that version.

  260. FergusMac says:

    Mikey at 9.42: They already have the flute bands onside for nothing.

  261. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    As a matter of interest fore Vestas at 11.43 last night. The National is not “edited in Cardiff”. It is edited in Glasgow and proofed perhads in Cardiff

  262. Wee Alex says:

    Boycott the BBC. No way.

    How can you counter the opposition if you don’t know what the media is telling the public. You need to listen to the views of your enemies. It’s all very well promoting your positive message but the Tories in particular will lie and cheat to win votes.

    The opinion polls still show the SNP with a healthy lead. The Tories will go backwards once the public understand what a future under May actually looks like.

    Ruth Davidson can’t hide behind mummy’s apron any longer. She will be exposed as every bit as nasty as the Tories of Westminster.

  263. Smallaxe says:

    From Facebook, check out their FB page for the video. 🙂

    SNP Central Borders Branch page added a photo and a video.
    19 hrs ·
    “During our street stall today, which was alongside the Tory street stall, 2 of our members held a silent protest against the ‘rape clause’. Three minutes later Mr Lamont and his chums took down their gazebo and scuttled away”

    Slithered away, would be more apt.

    Peace Always

  264. louis.b.argyll says:

    Just because some PR hotshot has a list of old ladies to telephone..etc.

    Polls can easily corrupted with initial suitability-rating, more expensive..but hey, it’s the Tories.

    BE interesting to see age breakdown FOR ALL PARTIES.

  265. louis.b.argyll says:

    Leave the London Marathon alone..

    It’s not about you!

    It’s about people overcoming adversity and raising money for charities.

    The Royals ARE political. They are arch-conservatives.

    The Royals are a charity themselves, claiming God gave them half our land and currently receiving half a Billion pounds a year in internal aid.

    Oi! bbc, nobody under the age of seventy can watch your royal coverage without getting the boak.

  266. Bill McLean says:

    K1 – can we go a bit easy on the language. This blog is the best we’ve got. Don’t spoil it. I’m as angry at the way we are treated as you are.

  267. Brian Powell says:


    Where it all falls down for the Tories, as with the rest of Brexit, the EU would need to accept the Tory view of the negotiations. The SNP alone has a majority in Holyrood, plus the Greens are for Independence, and would have a majority in Westminster still.

    The EU is not going along with any UK views on the negotiations.

  268. Legerwood says:

    Breeks @ 9.53

    Agree. One of the main reasons for calling the election is to neuter the threat of the indyref2 and it’s effect on the negotiating position of the UK with Europe. They can hardly dangle access to Scottish Fishing Grounds in negotiations when there is doubt as to whether they will still have control.

    Also difficult to get a trade deal with the USA if they cannot offer up the NHS in its entirety in exchange for some sort of deal.

    It also seems clear that Mrs May will use the return of powers from the EU to impose greater uniformity across the UK eg tuition fees. And more much more with the eventual aim of closing down the devolved Parliament, and Assemblies.

    Wee Alex @ 10.09

    Agree. You cannot counter an argument if you do not know what the other side is arguing. Buthe, at the same time, you also have to make very sure that you are putting over your own distinctive message. If you do not do so then you are dancing to the tune set by the opposition.

    In the GE in 2015, Ms Sturgeon and the SNP put over a message of hope that included practical steps to counter austerity and improve people’s lives. Much of theach details and policies in that message are still relevant in this election.

    The debates, especially the UK wide ones, gave Ms Sturgeon a platform to get that message across and to make herself known to a wider audience who liked what they saw and heard. That is probably why Ms May is refusing to debate. She does not want to give the SNP the chance to air their message and of course she knows she is no match for Ms Sturgeon in such a situation.

  269. K1 says:

    Bill…you can go easy if you want and I’d like tae see ye say that tae the Rev, this isn’t your blog and I’ll await a rebuke from the Rev if ma language is an issue for him. Don’t start wi the holier than thou pish Bill…there’s no language strong enough for the way that ah feel regarding any Tories being elected from Scotland come June.

    I’m not ‘debating’ this wi ye Bill. Simply…get aff me. 🙂

  270. ScottishPsyche says:

    So the polls are showing all the Yoons congregating under a Tory banner. Didn’t we all know this is what would happen?

    Except Kezia Dugdale of course.

  271. Bill McLean says:

    K1 – i’m afraid I view your response as impolite and completely over the top. I asked you politely to go easy on your language. It would appear that you have been stung into a childish reply. I’m not “holier than thou” or better or worse than anyone else in accordance with the way most of us in favour of a better Scotland feel. I have to point out to you that you can not take it upon yourself to represent everyone. Sorry you can’t be reasonable – something we accuse the unionists of often!

  272. Smallaxe says:


    Good Morning, my erudite Friend, nice here, intit!

    Peace Always

  273. louis.b.argyll says:

    Any soft headed Labour types thinking of switching to Tories?

    ..make sure you know who the candidate is..make sure you elect a trustworthy representative.. ready for 8% council tax and 15% rate rises..poor planning decisions..assets being removed from council ownership..privatisation of educational buildings..

    Health, education, equality? Everything is up for sale under Tory councils.. INCLUDING YER GRANNY.

  274. Proud Cybernat says:

    In a straight two-horse race framed by the colonial media as Indy v Union, polls predict SNP to crush Tories.

  275. galamcennalath says:

    An OT Sunday morning thought, or ten.

    Ten things I want for my country …

    1 a written constitution with rights enshrined in law
    2 sovereignty with the people, power loaned upwards
    3 everyone equal, especially before the law
    4 everyone pays their taxes
    5 all politics by a common PR system
    6 anyone working full time can live acceptably
    7 policies to actively roll back inequality
    8 a media which enables democracy not undermines it
    9 free health & education with a robust ‘social safety net’
    10 respect on the world stage

    I get absolutely none of those with the UK, nor will I ever IMO.

    I could get all of those from an iScotland once the dust settles.

  276. Scott says:

    Just got last of Damien Green on TV saying we need a stable Gov.under TM not a Government under JC and a ragbag of other parties so now we have a SNP Government in Scotland who are a bunch of RAGBAGS someone should question him on this it wont be the MSM.

  277. Fairliered says:

    I think we are possibly now at the point that Scots voters will vote on a pro or anti independence basis, especially in FPTP elections. Yessers will vote SNP, come what may, and Yoons will increasingly vote Tory. Slab and LibDems will be marginalised, except where they are the strongest anti Indy party (which in Slab’s case is nowhere).
    NI type politics unfortunately.

    What really upsets me though, is not that Britnats are pro UK, but that they are so anti Scotland – allegedly their own country! The media have a lot to answer for.

  278. DerekM says:

    lol Tories win 12 seats mahahaha jeez that is the funniest thing i have seen all year.

    Are they getting mixed up this is a FPTP GE not PR no seat for the losers.

    See ya fluffy you wee naff gonna give you tories a lesson on getting an electoral pummeling.

    Next they will be trying to tell us there is a Labour resurgence oh and that the SNP honeymoon is over lmao

  279. Craig says:

    O/T….I just got a campaign leaflet from Slab and I want to ask if this pledge breaches any rules in regards to possibly deliberately deceiving the voters.

    1) Slab promised to “Save your Bus Pass by saying NO to SNP Bus Pass cuts.

    2)Investing in Glasgow’s future with 30 hrs a week free childcare for every 3 & 4 year old.

    I’ve haven’t heard anyone, anywhere suggesting cuts to the Bus Pass, have you, if so, can you point me where.

    Isn’t the free childcare funded by the Scottish Government?

    I would be grateful for any replies to the above.

    Many Thanks

  280. harry mcaye says:

    We have to get the Tory Election Fraud message out there in the constituencies that could possibly fall to the Tories – Borders, Dumfries, parts of Edinburgh, Giffnock, Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire plus hammer home how they are removing 50,000 disability vehicles across the UK and how the SNP are already spending tens of millions mitigating Tory policy.

    I honestly believe vast swathes of the public have no idea about any of those issues.

  281. K1 says:

    ‘completely over the top.’

    Och away ye go Bill, what a ridiculous response and to then compound your drama filled misrepresentation of my reply to you, you throw in a weak comparison with our opposition?

    You got a response that was clear and concise Bill. It’s not your blog, Stu is the only authority when it come to what is and is not acceptable in terms of language.

    I did not ‘represent everyone’ only myself Bill. Talk about ‘over the top’ Bill, that’s a whopper!

    Yeah you didn’t get the response you wanted. So what? Your response is the perfect example of impolite and unreasonable. Holier than thou turned out to be presciently accurate…ah rest ma case. 🙂

    Let it go Bill. It’s not worth your annoyance. Each to their own.

  282. One_Scot says:

    I would not trust any polls or any bias, spin the unionist UK media throw at you. They are all pushing their own political agenda.

  283. Craig says:

    I should mention, I am aware that there are suggestions to raising the age of eligibility and those who have the Bus Pass will keep it. I’m looking for specifically CUTS to the bus pass as claimed by Slab.

  284. Fred says:

    No doubt if these former SNP MP’s had been cleared of any wrong-doing & took the whip again there would be no problem but this snap election has caught everybody on the hop, hence their problem. One of them is my MP, people knocked their pans here in getting rid of Slab at long last so this unresolved matter has been a huge disappointment to say the least & could yet cost the SNP the seat. A good candidate needed.

  285. Bill McLean says:

    K1 – I’m afraid, and hope, that it’s only your possible embarrassment that has taken you over the top again! I’m not annoyed. I don’t want to run anyone’s blog. If you assume you can use any language you like then you are assuming that everyone agrees with your usage. I expect better from people who contribute to this blog – mostly it is terrific and should not be spoiled for the personal choice of a few. The f word is used occasionally here – I don’t like it much but I can put up with it. The c word that you used is seen by many to be threatening to women and in my opinion not appropriate on this blog – we need more women on our side not less!

  286. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    While I don’t say ignore the polls it is useful to remember that previous to the Westminster election they were all forecasting an SNP advance of winning over 30 seats. One even said we might get a as many as 40!
    We got 59.

  287. HandandShrimp says:

    Thought Kevin McKenna talked a lot of sense regarding the outcome of the vote in Scotland this morning.

    As long as the SNP have a solid enough victory, nothing changes and an independence vote is more likely if England becomes a one party Tory state.

  288. Robert Peffers says:

    @ScottishPsyche says: 23 April, 2017 at 10:49 am:

    “So the polls are showing all the Yoons congregating under a Tory banner. Didn’t we all know this is what would happen?”

    Well, Scottishpsyche, that’s the way I had it figured and that was before the polls were published. It looks like the Indy vote is holding up and perhaps even slightly gaining and the total Yoon vote is also holding up or perhaps slightly dropping.

    Which seems to indicate the movement is mainly between the Yoon parties and if so then if one gains another drops.

    If so then even if a few seats move from the SNP the overall vote will move towards independence and perhaps wipe out a Scottish Yoon party completely or at least weaken one or both of the others.

    My thinking is that by strengthening the Tory vote the Yoons will remove the other two parties and a Tory Government with a bigger majority would soon have lots of former Labour and LibDem voters screaming their wee pointy heads off for independence.

  289. John H says:

    Katie Hopkins on LBC this morning. Paraphrasing.

    If you see images of a woman weeping or of a wayward child, don’t be swayed by it. She is a despicable excuse for a human being.

  290. starlaw says:

    This GE announcement is only days old so how can there be polls. Like the GERS figures they are just made up.
    Hope the SNP fights this campaign on ‘THE WELFARE STATE’ a path the Tories do not want to walk on. How soon till the cash register is introduced to your local surgery. Pension cuts, Benefit cuts, NHS sold of to Virgin Health in your area, and to cap it all… a nice new water meter in your house. This is my idea of how to fight the GE this time round

  291. HandandShrimp says:


    That is spot on. We had a wee sweep stake at our local branch. I went for mid 40s but I was at the high end. Some brave souls had gone for 50+ but I don’t think anyone had 56. A couple of old members had gone for 34, 35, having known disappointment in the past after good polls.

    Around 44/45 was an optimistic but reasonable expectation. We should aim to win them all but keep our feet on the ground. Taking 95% of the seats with 50% of the vote was a quirk of both FPTP and how the Unionist vote split. I am not sure it is a feat that will ever be repeated.

  292. heedtracker says:

    Just encourage and cajole EVERYONE you know to vote, May 4 and June 8, it’ll be fine.

  293. Breeks says:

    From Nana’s link at 11:04 to the coming British Bloodbath…

    “I am no longer a supporter of Scottish independence. I am now an advocate of Scottish invasion. If they can make it as far as London, I’m sure the capital would offer only token resistance. Run, Scotland, and take us with you.”

  294. Lochside says:

    The evolution of the National struggle for Scotland is reaching its dialectical conclusion: the fellow travelling pseudo political parties of the Union have come down to their basic essence of being British Unionists first and last….never mind petty political theoretical differences like class or property rights. It’s all about retaining the Scottish colony and its vast resources at all costs for the Mother State.

    The Greens had better see that history dictates the necessity of them to join fully in concert with the SNP to meet this dying and doomed attempt by the last contortions of British Unionism to sustain its grasp on Scotland’s throat.

  295. Glamaig says:

    When the Rev goes quiet on twitter, something good is brewing.

    Out canvassing shortly to do my own poll…

  296. admiral says:

    louis.b.argyll says:
    23 April, 2017 at 11:11 am
    Any soft headed Labour types thinking of switching to Tories?
    ..make sure you know who the candidate is..make sure you elect a trustworthy representative.. ready for 8% council tax and 15% rate rises..poor planning decisions..assets being removed from council ownership..privatisation of educational buildings..
    Health, education, equality? Everything is up for sale under Tory councils.. INCLUDING YER GRANNY.

    How true, Louis.

    Talk of a “UK single market” needs to be exposed for the threat it is.

    A single market in healthcare means the privatisation of the Scottish NHS, prescription charges, rundown of services, longer waiting lists, fewer doctors and nurses and the sell off of public assets at knockdown prices to the Tories’ friends in the private sector.

    A single market in education means the imposition of £9,000 fees a year for Scottish university students, the sell off of schools to become privately run academies, with a massive transfer of public land and buildings at knockdown prices to the private sector, and no doubt the imposition of a school curriculum that indoctrinates “British values” at the expense of all else.

    A single market in transport means the sell off of public assets like Lothian Buses at knockdown prices, the removal of subsidies and higher fares and fewer services, publicly funded roads and bridges being subject to toll charges to the benefit of the private sector.

    A single market in water and sewerage means the sell off of Scottish Water at knockdown prices to the private sector and huge increases in water and sewerage bills, with huge cuts to investment.

    A vote for the Tories is a vote for the destruction of public services.

  297. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ K1

    I loved your use of cunt (the ‘C’ word).

    But careful, though, because women have cunts (‘C’ words) and every time you use the word, one of them has a fit of the vapours and needs to be cured with strong smelling salts.

  298. Scott says:

    Kaiie Hokins.

    Speaking of this person she is telling the people of Scotland to vote Tory and get rid of the “Ginger Dwarf” meaning our Nicola I emailed her to have the guts to come to Scotland and stand as a Tory and see where she would get but like all bullies she wont and not even a reply to my email.
    My Grannie had had a name for a person like her I’ll let you all make your on guess

  299. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    100% on the money @Lochside says at 12:18 pm

    It has come down to supporters of an iScotland vs the Old Guard Unionists.

    Approximately 70% (of all Political hues) vs 30% (Die Hard Brit Nats).

    It was always going to be this way but has crystallised quicker than we could have imagined in those post IndyRef days in September 2014.

    The GE in June is all about May trying to Negate Scotland’s 62% Remain vote in the EU Ref and retention of Scotlands resources (I include our Public Services in these resources).

    Without these Brexit England & Wales will be a Third World Country owned by the Chinese (and whoever else owns the vast Government Debt Bonds).

  300. Robert Peffers says:

    @Fred says: 23 April, 2017 at 11:38 am:

    “No doubt if these former SNP MP’s had been cleared of any wrong-doing & took the whip again there would be no problem but this snap election has caught everybody on the hop, hence their problem.”

    While I have no doubt that these two ladies are indeed still very much victims of criminal defamation by the media and by opposing political parties I have never lost sight of the fact that they are not the only victims.

    Every person in their constituencies are also victims of the media and political party smears.

    Neither MP can be as effective at their job while under such a cloud of suspicion and everyone suffers.

  301. Clapper57 says:

    Re the recent political poll predictions showing gains for the Tories in Scotland note what Peter Hitchens said on polls:

    “Opinion polls are a device for influencing public opinion, not a device for measuring it.Crack that,and it all makes sense”.

  302. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Scott, re: Katie Hopkins

    The entire purpose of that…thing is to be an agent provocateur to attract opprobrium, and thefore a greater audience, to the station.

    She gives a bad name to horses.

  303. Jack Murphy says:

    Fairliered said at 11:21 this morning:-
    “…….What really upsets me though, is not that Britnats are pro UK, but that they are so anti Scotland – allegedly their own country!
    The media have a lot to answer for.”

    Well said. Here’s some information on these piles of paper sitting
    far too close to the groceries. 🙁

    “…..Over a quarter (27.3 per cent) of the press is owned by Lord Rothermere and 24.9 per cent by Rupert Murdoch – between them these two men have over 50 per cent of the printed press.

    Over three quarters (77.8 per cent) of the press is owned by a handful of billionaires.
    There are only 88 billionaires among the 63 million people in the UK and most of the barons do not even live in the UK…..”.

    Figures courtesy of LeftFootForward four years ago.

  304. Chick McGregor says:

    Sorry to say, this was not at all unexpected by me.

    Britnat unionists and hardcore anti-EUists of all political persuasion, if they have a brain, will get behind the Tories.

    As Elspeth pointed out on Call Kaye, with FPTP, if the opposition are split about 50:50 and the poll leader has around 50% then the poll leader wins nearly all the seats. If there is imbalance in the opposition so that one has 30%+ then they start to gain seats big time.

    Ironically, as the economic consequences of hard Brexit looms, it will be the hitherto bedrock support of the Tories in Scotland, the “I’m more than alright thank you Jacks” who will move to Yes for indyref2 leaving the hard core Brexiteers and the mindless Britnats in their stead.

    Silver lining.
    Establishing unionism as an almost exclusively Tory possession, is no bad thing for indyref2.

  305. Thepnr says:


    “Opinion polls are a device for influencing public opinion, not a device for measuring it.Crack that,and it all makes sense”.

    Precisely, let’s not be influenced by them. All you can do is work even harder for the result we desire. Not everyone can go out canvassing or deliver leaflets.

    But we all have a voice so make it heard, I believe the majority of Independence supporters could have spoken up more in 2014 but didn’t. I’m not berating anyone because I too could have done more and I know that now.

    This is it though, not just a second chance but our last chance at least in my lifetime. Most importantly make sure you do get out and vote, encourage others if you know they are sympathetic towards Independence.

    It’s likely that the SNP will lose a seat or two at the General Election, however it’s also very likely that they will make great gains in the council elections especially if we can get the vote out. That will also influence voting intentions in June.

    I expect a large Tory majority to be returned on June 8th across the UK and it doesn’t concern me one bit. The reason being we are not voting on Independence for at least 18 months and that is plenty time for the reality of what a large majority Tory government in Westminster actually means. It will not be good.

    That can only win support for Independence, at least in my view. So don’t let your head drop at what the polls are saying, instead do what you can to make them absolutely wrong.

    Keep this in mind. It really is down to You and I now.

  306. K1 says:

    Humiliating, shaming, guilting and ridicule with a soupçon of patronisation toward women.

    Guan yersel Bill.

  307. Hamish100 says:

    K1 and reluctant nationalist.

    The use of swear words may gain attention but does not gain respect nor reinforce an argument. So why use them?

    Just saying.

  308. Robert Peffers says:

    Just to make a point let me highlight an article about an opinion poll featured in the Daily Express and this video featuring Emeritus Professor Alan Sked of the LSE:-

    Now this is dire stuff for Scotland if there was a single word of proof in the either the article, video or Opinion Poll. To get to the truth we must look at the Good Professor’s academic and political history.

    Alan Sked FRHistS (born 22 August 1947) is a British academic and politician. He is Professor Emeritus of International History at the London School of Economics, founded the party now known as the UK Independence Party and stood as a candidate in several parliamentary elections.

    It may also help your understanding if you considered the definition of, “Professor Emeritus” – is a retired college professor or minister. When a professor stops teaching, he/she might be given the title of emeritus, which basically means he/she can still be remembered as a successful professor. The word emeritus, pronounced “eh-MER-ih-tus,” is Latin, originally meaning “veteran soldier.”

    Oh! And BTW: It may explain a lot if you knew that :-

    “Sked was educated at Allan Glen’s School in Glasgow, before going on to study Modern and Medieval History at the University of Glasgow, followed by a DPhil in Politics at Merton College, Oxford.

  309. K1 says:

    Smallaxe…Lol…s’funny really…maybe thousands of wurdz on a host of subjects over a period of years then one sentence wi the word ‘cunt’ in it and yur a bad yin. Is it cos ah is a cunt really? 🙂

    Let’s all bend the knee to what we think others who hate us for our political stance will think of us cos we use everyday language in a post concerning the possiblity of Tory MP’s being returned from Scotland because of a shower of craven careerist Labour bastards and their willingness tae convince their own voters tae vote Tory to ensure that outcome.

    Naw don’t comment on the substantive point, instead rebuke the poster for using the word ‘cunt’ as an apt description of those low life’s. That’s what’s apparently going to ‘spoil’ Wings? By that logic Wings should be a two bit 20 dedicated followers a month diary of a mad man’s ramblings…but it isn’t is it?

    Bill accords ma tuppeny worth as suffiently notable to draw even more attention than it ever merited in the first place? He infers that ah have that power, he implores that I ‘go easy’…newsflah Bill, that was me going easy. He’s the one who suggests the use of the word ‘cunt’ is powerful enough to spoil Wings?

    Like a man diving for the moral high ground…landing in a pile of shite of his own making.



    RN…the context was apt. Precisely regarding women…

    *faints…in support of women everywhere*

  310. K1 says:

    Och the 100bot’s been triggered…

    Why don’t you and Bill get yer ain blog…like Bush and Blair kneeling on the same hymn sheet…

  311. galamcennalath says:

    admiral says:

    A vote for the Tories is a vote for the destruction of public services.

    Definitely is now. And that is the real reason behind Brexit – the creation of a low wage, low tax, minimal services, deregulated country. They have the bit between their teeth and hope for five clear years to complete the project.

    Immigration? Never did business any harm so we should assume that making immigration an issue is just a tool to get the support of the gullible.

    The EU? It is getting in the way with all those rights, laws, standards, and regulations. The hard right want all that binned and so they want out of the EU.

    What all this points to is – they actually want a rock hard Brexit.

  312. Smallaxe says:

    Swearing is beneficial in ways that people may underestimate or take for granted. Swearing is often cathartic, it often frees us of the feelings of anger or frustration we hold and allows expression for them. It can also be a useful substitute for physical violence (who would rather be punched out than to withstand being sworn at?).

    Peace Always 😎

  313. Artyhetty says:

    Re;Bill McLean@11.49

    Those who use offensive words on this blog do it to attempt to put people off from reading WOS and the comments. I just skip right past them, and read the intelligent and witty comments, of which there are many.


    Watched a vid someone put up on twitter, tory MP for Warrington saying that Scotland’s oil, and the revenues from it, basically cancels out any notion that Scotland is subsidised! Prob a while back, but twitter didn’t like it being shared.

    Have a good Sunday good people of Wings!

  314. K.A.Mylchreest says:

    Nice one Nana 🙂

    The coming British bloodbath

    “… what I still believe is a strong case for Scotland to do what it always used to do in these situations: make a deal with France and come storming down over the border with the tartans flying. I am no longer a supporter of Scottish independence. I am now an advocate of Scottish invasion. If they can make it as far as London, I’m sure the capital would offer only token resistance. Run, Scotland, and take us with you.” LOL! 🙂

    … but seriously though, what can we do to help Our Friends in the South? How can English Labour be persuaded to be at least neutral on Brexit and Scottish indy and support the progressive alliance now so badly needed in the face of the horror of Tory near-dictatorship for the foreseeable future? How to tap that reservoir of Good Old English Decency if it still exists? I just hope that the threat the Tories now pose will outscare the xenophobic terrors being peddled by the Right.

  315. admiral says:

    galamcennalath says:
    23 April, 2017 at 1:36 pm
    admiral says:
    A vote for the Tories is a vote for the destruction of public services.
    Definitely is now. And that is the real reason behind Brexit – the creation of a low wage, low tax, minimal services, deregulated country. They have the bit between their teeth and hope for five clear years to complete the project.
    Immigration? Never did business any harm so we should assume that making immigration an issue is just a tool to get the support of the gullible.
    The EU? It is getting in the way with all those rights, laws, standards, and regulations. The hard right want all that binned and so they want out of the EU.


    There is something about May that is truly scary. Given a huge majority, with the concommitant destruction of the Labour Party (self inflicted) as an effective opposition, I fear she and any government led by her has the potential to make even Thatcher look socially progressive.

    I truly believe that Thatcher was constrained by the remnants of old Macmillanite “one nation” Tories, who still had influence at that time. I truly fear that that tendency in the Tory party is long gone and the ultra right is ascendant. A Tory landslide is to be feared like never before.

    Beware the ides of May!

  316. Word police says:

    K1, G.T.F.

    People, ignore this half wit.

  317. Smallaxe says:

    If you swear or curse on Sunday
    God might come and get you one day
    If you do likewise on Monday, the same applies
    But swear we must, for now it’s Indy or bust
    And the BBC and MSM, tell fucking LIES

    Peace Always

    If anyone is offended, yer no’ gettin’ oot enough!

  318. K1 says:

    Stop using the smokescreen of ‘generalisation’ it doesn’t cover up that your views are yours and yours alone…weakest form or argument there is. You both have issues wi words you don’t like and will dress it up in whatever you both ‘assume’ are views held ‘generally’ by ‘everyone else’. Whilst hypocritically telling others they are ‘assuming’ in the same way, which in ma case I’m not.

    Labour are a shower of fucking cunts. That’s what I said, it’s exactly what I meant and at the time of writing is was entirely in keeping with my emotional state. Why do you both say nothing else with regard to the thousands of other words written by myself? Is it because you both only attack others you generally don’t like when you think you have something on them?

    Peas in a pod…just saying my arse Hamish…get it through your head’s it is you two who have made an issue of this, it did not merit this degree of discussion and yet Bill’s tying himself in knots in an attempt to ‘sound’ reasonable whilst indulging in some of the most shameful means of undermining, shaming and ridiculing of the ‘person’ to mask his dislike of the word cunt and to justify his inability to see it for what it was…an apt description?

    Nobody is calling him out on the pile of pish he is posting as a means of defending what? His fragile sensibilities? We’re adults we use adult language and ah for one won’t be ‘bullied’ by a wee hypocrite that gets offended by the word cunt but has no problem displaying some of the most ‘playing the ball not the person’ tosh I’ve encountered on Wings.

    Get over it…Hamish just jumps on the bandwagon….so predictable and automatic ergo 100bot.

  319. Liz g says:

    Reluctant Nationalist @ 12.37pm
    I won’t insult your intelligence by pretending that I think you actually believe what you typed there at 12.37…

    But just as an FYI….This woman, and most women that I know take the view the the C word AKA Cunt, would and should loose it’s power by becoming as unremarkable as the F word AKA Fuck.

    I too am just sayin…

  320. K1 says:

    ‘Those who use offensive words on this blog do it to attempt to put people off from reading WOS and the comments.’

    That is complete rubbish Arthetty. I give you the Rev Stuart Campbell, even btl Art?

    The Rev is a trooper.

    Why say anything about this if you aren’t following the actual argument?

  321. schrodingers cat says:

    just back from a couple of hrs canvassing
    we have almost 280 snp members here

    5 turned up, 2 were candidates.

    this is being reported across the constituency, and can be seen in social media images

    we have an army of members, but the idea we still have an army of activists is a fantasy
    ps, thanks caz-m for the congrats for the @yesnefife dundee rally, but lanarkist and yes tayport were the real driving force behind this and praise should be directed to them,
    i am but a small cog in a big machine

  322. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ K1: ‘ *faints…in support of women everywhere* ‘

  323. HandandShrimp says:

    Hopkins is a proven liar and was found out in court. To have such a person advocate voting Tory says more about the Tories than it does Nicola. I see her comments as a bonus to the SNP campaign (I suspect Struth would prefer it if Hopkins just shut her pie hole).

  324. schrodingers cat says:


    reminds me of the joke about the guy walking down the steet with a pink suede welly boot oan his heid, a man comes up to him, starts laugh and says, “You’ve goat a pink suede welly boot on yer heid”?

    the guy answers, “i always wear a pink suede welly boot on ma heid oan a monday

    the man says, “but its tuesday”?

    the guy says, “huh, what a fool I must look”!!!!

  325. Thepnr says:

    This Scottish author won the Booker prize, the most prestigious award that could be given to an author. His name was James Kelmen and he lived in Cumbernauld.

    The book was called ‘How Late it Was, How Late’ here’s what one reviewer thought:

    ‘LOOK eh pardon me; just one thing, ye’re gony have to watch yer language; sorry; but every second word’s fuck.’ Not every second word, in fact; a random sampling of James Kelman’s new novel suggests that the word occurs on average a mere 10 times a page – fewer than 4,000 occurrences in all. It’s true that the main character, Sammy, sometimes gives way to a vernacular of spectacular indignation (‘Fuck yer coffee and fuck yer tea and fuck yer fucking milk if yer fucking lucky enough to fucking have fucking any of the fucking stuff man know what I’m saying’). But many pubs in Britain would furnish a similarly vertiginous four-letter-count.

    Each to their own is how I see it, don’t like it then don’t read it and definitely don’t read this book. Though you will be missing out on something and that is a way of Scottish life that many just don’t want to admit exists.

    It does exist and we are part of it. Say it like it is, I don’t believe their is any intention to offend, swearing IS part of our language and sometimes the best words to use because of what they mean.

    That’s why this great Scottish author won the Booker prize, he used swear words when they were appropriate to do so and that was throughout the entire book.

    He never asked anybody to buy his book that didn’t want to read swear words so if use of this language upsets you don’t read it.

    Else best just let everyone who posts do their own thing, that’s why Wings is so diverse, me I’d prefer it remains diverse.

  326. K1 says:

    It’s good intit Smallaxe 😉 (sunglasses oan in disguise)

  327. Nana says:

    Slow Sunday, have a couple of links

    Look behind you TM

    Seeing some rumours on twitter, Gina Miller being asked to stand against TM in Maidenhead. Ho hum

  328. liz says:

    @schrodinger’s cat -I agree about lack of activists and this is why I was disappointed that Tommy Shepherd did not win the depute job.

    He had plans to make more use of members by organising local activists groups and paying for some organisers.

    Angus R already has a job which he is good at and I feel that there is sometimes too much conservatism (small c) in the upper ranks.

  329. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Atyhetty

    Jings, I’ve been rumbled!

  330. K1 says:

    ‘I don’t believe their is any intention to offend’

    Exactly this! The offense that is taken is not always given. What offends me in this case with Bill is how his offensiveness is specifically aimed toward me as a person, an impugning of character because ah used the word cunt in a sentence? He’s getting a free pass from those who cannot or will not understand this difference.

    Some of the holiest people from all churches on this planet have indulged in some of the most despicable crimes against children especially. I can bet you a grand they rarely swore. Where seen as beacons of their parish and respected widely by society. I cannot fathom how many are taken in by the notion that swearing is somehow within the criterion of ‘sin’ as set by those who have sinned the most by any calculable standard. Where else d’ye’s think ye learned this guff?

  331. Michael McCabe says:

    Sorry for going O/T Can Anybody advise me if Murdo Fraser enjoyed the Game Today ?

  332. Hamish100 says:

    Small axe etcetera.

    Swearing cathartic. .good for you but how about sharing it with your reflection in a mirror.

    Personally if it doesn’t help independence don’t do it. If your a troll your hoping for further offensive response so it can appear in the unionist press.

    Peace Always — say it too often and it loses its impact.

    Just sayin.

  333. Steffano says:

    I would never tell anyone on a public forum what they should or shouldn’t say. Why? well I wouldn’t appreciate being censored in that way myself. Nobody likes being told what they can or can’t say.
    Would be good if we could all rate individual posts with a thumbs up or thumbs down. This would be a good way for the wings readership to expose trolls without actually falling into the trap of engaging them.

  334. galamcennalath says:

    Michael McCabe says:

    Murdo Fraser enjoyed the Game Today ?

    Texas hold ’em at the Last Chance Saloon?

  335. K1 says:

    ‘Personally if it doesn’t help independence don’t do it.’

    You have no measurable means to ascertain whether a swear word ‘helps’ or doesn’t in terms of independence Hamish?

  336. Liz g says:

    Hamish 100 @ 2.33
    Hey Hamish…. I think we might have found some common ground!
    If there’s WAN word that deserves to loose it’s impact !!!!!

    Sadly though I don’t think it’s in common enough use especially on Wings,it doesn’t appear in the world thingymajig at the side of the page.
    Having said that neither does peace or always.
    A campaign for another time and and another blog I would think!

    What say you Hamish?

  337. Smallaxe says:

    Hamish100 says:
    23 April, 2017 at 2:33 pm
    “Small axe etcetera.”

    Firstly, the name is Smallaxe, not Small axe etcetera. Secondly, sharing it with my reflection in a mirror, who do you think I am, the evil queen from Snow White?
    Finally, “Personally if it doesn’t help independence don’t do it”. What you do “Personally” is of no interest whatsoever to me and try calling me a troll to my face and I will show you just what kind of impact Peace Always can have.

    Peace Always

  338. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Steffano: “Would be good if we could all rate individual posts…”

    It wouldn’t; as this would be instantly and persistently abused by the paid trolls to use sock puppet account after sock puppet account registered by trashmail, to subvert progress and give credibility to otherwise incredible opinions. Then leave a huge divisive mess for Rev to huffily sort out.

    I know this may come as a shock to you. 😉

  339. schrodingers cat says:

    @liz g

    I’ve been trying to think of a word for 2 weeks………..

    um……how about fortnight ? 🙂

  340. Liz g says:

    K1 @ 2.58
    I have worked out that swearing at the mirror doesn’t help Independence either K1.

    Although you can do it there too if you want to (with Thepnr on that one)…..
    Just don’t… and I am telling you and ever winger on here RIGHT now say …Candy man more than twice…. I mean it,you will be sorry,and Before you are dead, Before Judgement day…. Never mind Before Independence day!

  341. schrodingers cat says:


    re- the lack of activists……..

    i think it is just the troops are foot sore, im not sure tommy shepard would or could have changed that. btw, i voted 4 him too and for the same reasons you mentioned

  342. ScottieDog says:

    Weird just pondering on the press today.
    2014: 6 MPs at WM. indyref
    2017: 40+ MPs at WM. no mandate.

  343. schrodingers cat says:

    my favourite swear word…….



  344. Liz g says:

    Schrodingers cat @ 3.11
    LOL good one ….. I have been trying to see how many movies ending in day I can reference,in one post.
    Was going to add Bloody Sunday but felt the language was a bit too choice !

  345. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Smallaxe: “Try calling me a troll to my face…”

    Just some advice for you, Hamish – don’t.

  346. K1 says:

    100bot…algorithms designed tae infuse the atmosphere wi snide judgements. We’re none of us who have spoken on this subject, Trolls Hamish…snidey badbot.

  347. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Breeks @ 09:53, Lochside @ 12:18,

    Despite her occasional awkwardness, Theresa May is one of the smarter Tories. She is no fool. She would probably have preferred not to be starting from here, but that’s where we are. Faced with the EU27, she is not “in control”, but is bluffing fairly well, with considerable help from virtually all the media. She holds no cards but one, which is Brexit.

    Lochside is right, it has become a dialectical struggle between the false comfort of an old imperial “go it alone” Britain and the uncertainty of an internationally-engaged future.

    A lot of people can’t yet free themselves from the nostalgia thing, and haven’t exactly been helped by a globalised economy that has brought them no obvious benefit (ignoring all the cheap consumer goods they still expect somehow to be able to get). But investing in a pipedream is going to get us nowhere fast.

    It’s no different here in Scotland, where Rude Gal is apparently managing to garner more and more of that reactionary backlash, helped on by a Labour-dominated media who keep on looking the wrong way. Ironically for Labour, who have until now taken a serious hit from the SNP, their coup de grâce looks to be coming from their supposed Unionist chums the Tories instead. (How ironic.) After all, if Unionism is your thing, why vote for a pale imitation when you can vote for the real deal?

    More concerning is the effect of Brexit on the SNP. How anyone who voted “yes” can be so completely deluded as to believe that they are going to have more autonomy under a Scotland-hating Tory-dominated UK than an independent Scotland in the EU just goes to show that Abe Lincoln was right, you can fool some of the people some of the time. We just have to hope that they wake up to reality before it’s too late. Attempting to appease these people won’t hack it, as Labour are discovering. The myths and lies have now got to be tackled head-on as a matter of urgency.

    After all, the reckoning is still coming, which is why the Mayhem Gang are trying their little hustle now.

    Wouldn’t it be doubly ironic if Scotland swings slightly Tory while England – influenced by clear-thinking people like Gina Miller – swings slightly against?

  348. Smallaxe says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    23 April 2017 at 2:10 pm

    Liked your joke and your favourite swear word, “Twunt”.
    😎 (disguised, so Hamish willnae see me)

    Peace Always my Friend

  349. t42 says:

    total news blackout of the french election coverage across compromised msm this afternoon. bookies backing le pen.
    the corrupt eu elites attempts to stop le pen include:
    double votes **accidentally** sent to left-wing pro-eu french ex-pats “will be declared valid”-election committee spokesman.

  350. Proud Cybernat says:

    My favourite swear word… COCONUT.

    It begins with ‘C’ ends with ‘T’ and as a ‘U’ and ‘N’ somewhere in between.

    Chill peeps – we’re a’ on the same side.

  351. Smallaxe says:

    liz g,

    This might help you liz,

    Peace Always my dear Friend.

  352. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    I see you are resolutely defending your right to freedom of speech today. (If somewhat more tetchily than usual, for someone that has always appeared to me to be a very genial bloke. I hope that things are not weighing too heavily upon you elsewhere.)

    A devotee of Lenny Bruce, I assume. Possibly the “n” word next, eh…? =grin=

  353. Smallaxe says:

    Proud Cybernat,

    Sanity at last, thank you.

    Peace Always
    Any Imgur?

  354. Thepnr says:

    Just read this in the Torygraph where they are crowing that the Tories can win eleven seats from the SNP which is of course bollocks.

    What does this mean though? Honestly I can’t fathom it out.

    It found backing for independence at 47 per cent, with 53 per cent opposed. However, almost 38 per cent said another Tory majority government would make them more likely to back separation, with only 15.5 per cent saying it would make them less likely.

    I’m hoping that it’s good news, more Tories then more support for Indy guaranteed?

  355. heedtracker says:

    SLab yoons really piling on to the tory nightmare? Sunday Times highly dodgy ofcourse but Ruth is a tory BBC goddess.

    “Victims of the Tories would include Ian Murray, Labour’s only MP in Scotland, the poll suggests, while SNP deputy leader Angus Robertson’s Moray seat is also at risk.

    Although the SNP would still be by far the largest party in Scotland, such a result would put a massive dent in its hopes for a second referendum.”

    If just once the sleazy old creeps would give credit to BBC Scotland gimps, for all their relentless monstering of Scottish democracy, let alone SNP.

    But that’s not how politics works in teamGB.

  356. K1 says:

    Thanks Robert SJ, naw things are fine elsewhere Robert…I would say I’m ‘fiercely’ defending free speech in general and it is indeed one of my bugbears when people attempt to claim the moral high ground whilst tottering on false premises. Ergo…tongue slightly sharper, touch o’ the razors…but I’m not plunging the knife dear man 😉

  357. Ken500 says:

    Le Pen had no chance 20%. The French are left of centre. Not facist. France has a more equal society. More cohesive. Not so divided. European. France is not Paris. Many Rural communities.

    French Police and Gendarmie have always been massively armed.

  358. Stephen McKenzie says:

    Heedtracker 03:57

    I think that Sunday Times poll should be treated with suspicion and a pointy stick until the data is analysed – Did we think a Times poll would actually show anything different?..

    However it is useful for the Unionists and BBC to now push for the “Herd” mentality that it is now cool to come out and vote Tory in Scotland.

    I heard the Radio 4 review of the papers this morning where one of the panel I am sure got a semi by gushing that “Ruth Davidson” was now more popular than Nicola Sturgeon in some parts of Scotland. Yes next door maybe..

  359. arthur thomson says:

    I wonder what odds the bookies would give me on the Blue Tories not winning 11 Scottish seats? Pretty good I reckon.

    But I think we have to take the pressure off ourselves and accept that the Scottish electorate are all adults and have to take full responsibility for their actions. If a sufficient number are sufficiently stupid as to back the Tories then we will all have to accept the consequences.

    Above all else I think it is incumbent on the SNP and the Greens to clearly spell out that those consequences are genuinely dangerous.

  360. Liz g says:

    Smallaxe @ 3.38
    Thank you my friend,so many choices there I will not have to use any profanity for a while…Well just for a little while.

    Just as well we have Proud cybernat to keep us all sane, not just today,but all the many times that one of the link’s has made us laugh out loud…. Thanks to you too Proud cybernat….

    Now can us idiots all get back to our “day job” please?
    We have a Country to win.

  361. Ken500 says:

    The Pollsters got it wrong, as usual, last GE. They claimed SNP would not get more than 50 seats. Wrong again. They get it wrong every time without censor. Make money out of wrong analysis. Including public money. Break guidelines. The Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 Constituencies. The EU Ref was illegitimate and illegal. The Tories/Unionists are ruining the world economy.

  362. Ken500 says:

    BBC Brewer is at it again. No SNP representative. Only Unionists.

  363. heedtracker says:

    Stephen McKenzie says:
    23 April, 2017 at 4:07 pm
    Heedtracker 03:57

    Its going to be the foundation of vote tory BBC Scotland yoon campaigning for June 8 especially but it could be a good boot up the jacksy for complacent YES Scots too.

  364. ronnie anderson says:

    @ K1 re Robert JS (3.34) .Hiv you chinged yer sex since ah met you in George Square at the R*** Clause protest lol.

  365. Robert Peffers says:

    @K1 says: 23 April, 2017 at 2:27 pm:

    “Some of the holiest people from all churches on this planet have indulged in some of the most despicable crimes against children especially. I can bet you a grand they rarely swore.”

    Well! Hing oan a minute there, K1.

    To be quite accurate the term, “Swearing”, should not be applied to the type of language that is being objected to.

    Swearing is taking an oath as in, “By God”, or, “By Christ”. This is not the same thing as, for example, an obscenity, profanity or a curse or what might be described as a, “dirty word”.

    Now I didn’t pay much attention to your original, objected to, post but far as I recall, it did not contain an oath, a curse or a profanity (i.e. irreligious, sacrilege or a blasphemy).

    So it seems the objection was about what could only be described as, “dirty”, words. Now I’m getting on a bit now and I can recall the many changes in attitudes through the decades.

    Simple and acceptable terms seem to change and become unacceptable through time. Drawers, Nickers, briefs, pants, unmentionables – get the picture?

    Back in Victorian times, (and no I do not go back quite that far), they thought of leg as a, “dirty Word”. To the laughable extent that they even made little gadgets out of cloth, like little skirts, to place on table legs.

    The ladies wore Crinolines so as not to expose their legs and, “other parts”, not acceptable in polite company.

    Consider also the plethora of names for nether garments due entirely to a term becoming considered, “not nice”, and another term used in its place. Only, in turn, to also become unacceptable in polite company, yet all perfectly proper terms.

    Now – to body parts – the terms apparently being objected to are actually quite proper biological terms but from the Middle English cunte, and from the Old Norse kunta; from Germanic kunt?n.

    So there you go – not swearing, not cursing and not profanity. Just perhaps coarse language and mostly, these days used as derogatory terms to describe an unlikable person.

  366. Flower of Scotland says:

    Hi Schrödinger’s cat,

    I enjoyed yesterday and we met for the first time!

    SNP NE Fife have broken into different parts and I go out with the locals now. Not sure if it’s a good idea but that’s how it is.

    I go out when I can (bad back) but the majority of folk that do the leafleting and canvassing are of my generation! What would we do without the “oldies”?

    Where are the young folk in the constituency! Very few come out and help.

  367. Flower of Scotland says:


    Angus Robertson was on at the beginning, in the countryside somewhere,and wasn’t given the opportunity to debate with the others.

    Alex Rowley,s monotone voice switches me off zzzzzzzzzzzz

  368. Proud Cybernat says:

    It could all have been so different…

  369. Cag-does-thinking says:

    First post for ages as all the usual election bollocks has begun.

    I get the impression of polls that they are manipulated to fit a narrative. Remember that poll two years ago about the SNP getting 56 seats?

    Me neither.

    It’s useful for the tory media to paint that there is a swing so big that they could get elected at the expense of the SNP. There just aren’t that many union loonies out there to get whole areas of the country to vote for what is an unpopular party in Scotland. They haven’t been able to make Labour popular no matter what they do.

    They are keen to paint a narrative that the media can pile in and say to the SNP “you’ll need to change to accomodate the union vote”.

    From this week and expecting to maybe unseat fluffy we are painted as having nightmare scenarios of 8 to 12 seats for the tories. After the way they have treated Scotland since 2014 they just can’t have that kind of popular support. I for one just don’t believe it.

  370. Smallaxe says:

    liz g:

    Glad it helped you liz and yes, let’s get back to the “day job”.

    Proud Cybernat:
    🙂 Nice one and so true.

    Peace Always

  371. Glamaig says:

    Cag-does-thinking says:
    23 April, 2017 at 4:37 pm
    all the usual election bollocks has begun.

    I’m afraid we have a few weeks ahead of us of the Tories and BBC dribbling on endlessly and practically wanking live on air at the prospect of recovering a handful of seats. Hopefully the Council elections will put their gas at a peep.

  372. Jack Murphy says:

    Ken500 said at 4:15pm:
    “BBC Brewer is at it again. No SNP representative. Only Unionists.”

    The new Leader of BBC North Britain Branch promised to sort all this out.

    “Director of BBC Scotland Donalda MacKinnon: My mission is to restore trust in the BBC.”

    Promises,promises… 🙁

  373. Breeks says:

    Kinda curious about the YES 2 relaunch in the National.

    Seems rather subdued as launches go. What’s the script?

    I know the logo has to be different from the 2014 YES simply to work as a fund raiser for the ScotRef, but not sure the AYE logo is going to do it.

    Don’t get me wrong, you could write Yes on the side of a football in black marker and I’d support it, and for the record I actually do like the Aye design, but how can I put it? It looks a bit niche, as if it comes with instructions about what it means. In 2014 you could spot another YES car sticker from a mile away. I’ve also seen some rather nice saltires incorporating European stars that brilliant.

    But my real question is where is all the YES razzmatazz for something so important? Or is the AyE campaign a more private affair?

    I appreciate too, that anything Pantone 300 blue is going to serve just fine as YES2 / ScotRef / AyE logo, but is the National promoting the logo launch or the campaign launch? I’m a little confused.

  374. Bill McLean says:

    K1 – just been able to catch up and see that you really need to read my first post again and see what I objected to and still object to – not you, not your views and not use of all strong language . Just like you I am entitled to an opinion. Despite excuses made the c… word is of a different nature than other swear words. I won’t go through this again. But remember you don’t set the standard for anyone but yourself!

  375. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ken500 says: 23 April, 2017 at 4:15 pm:

    “BBC Brewer is at it again. No SNP representative. Only Unionists.”

    No! No! Ken500 – It wasn’t Brewer’s fault. It was just that the SNP lot were all far too busy doing their day jobs.

  376. heedtracker says:

    The new Leader of BBC North Britain Branch promised to sort all this out.

    “Director of BBC Scotland Donalda MacKinnon: My mission is to restore trust in the BBC.”

    When you hear a tory yoon tell you something, you know the exact is coming at you very hard indeed.

    Which is why BBC Donaldo explained to us she was going to win back trust. We are going to get extremely reamed by Donaldo and chums trust winning.

    By June 9, if its not “FM Ruth Davidson’s next step” blasted out of BBC Scotland news, Donalda will have failed.

  377. TheItalianJob says:

    Surely the polls in the Sunday Times and Courier have it wrong.

    There is no way the Tories are going to gain upto 11 Scottish MPs in the GE.

    Only way they are going to gain some seats is if the Labour hatred of the SNP is so great that a good number of Labour supporters are going to vote for them.

    Heaven help us if that happens. But as we know the establishment is gathering themselves to denounce and try to halt the Independence movement at all costs.

    Surely our mandate in Holyrood supersedes what happens in WM and the GE.

  378. Robert Graham says:

    Cag-does-thinking . A welcome and timely post, This Tory bunch of liars, cheats, and probably soon to be named as crooks , are flying by the seat of their pants , bluff and bluster doesn’t come close, all mouth and with their friends in the media well on side and eager to give the SNP a good kicking .
    These often quoted Polls religiously relied on by the Tories that strangely always come down on the same side always give the answer they are paid to provide , The thinking probably is keep banging the same drum all day every day and trust it will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

    The only fly in their ointment is of the last major events these pollsters predicted all of them got it so wrong and by such a spectacular margin that they had to have an investigation into their methods , and have they changed, have they f/k .

    Did they foresee, Trump, a Tory victory , Brexit , nope not one, rather than reflecting opinion they try to influence it , and so the daily a Tory revival mantra gets spouted at every opportunity .
    All Baloney designed to change people’s minds, this time the Tories can’t hide what they are, a disgusting self serving selfish bunch of liars that will go back on every single thing they promise. Kezia beware of a Tory bearing gifts you have been conned before don’t make it a habit. Remember how the last contact with them went it wasn’t pretty .

  379. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    ronnie anderson @ 16:20,

    Oops? I have possibly made an assumption too far. Based solely on language use, I hastily add, before digging myself in any deeper. Gentle apologies where needed if so…

    =dives quickly for the exit=

  380. Chick McGregor says:

    “There is no way the Tories are going to gain upto 11 Scottish MPs in the GE.”

    Why ever not? That is FPTP for you.

    If ALL the erstwhile SLAB voters lent their vote to the Tories it would be about half the seats each.

    The Yoonery media made a big mistake backing their traditional yoon allies SLAB, last time because it simply helped bring about an unhelpful parity in Lab and Tory vote.

    Basically Kezia Dugdale + Full Yoon Media backing = Ruth Davidson.(approx.)

    The yoon media have since learned their lesson and have changed to full blown post Ruth mode.

    No contest now, the Ruthie party is the one to back if you are a hard core unionist or Brexiteer.

    In fact, it is a contest already completed, Kezia lost Ruth won.

    The fact the SNP vote is unlikely to be significantly lower than last time however, will not stop them claiming a reversal in SNP fortunes.

    Ho hum.

  381. Thepnr says:

    Here’s an example of talking.

    I’m getting some work done on my house and apparently the builders have been careless and material from my job has spilled over into their garden.

    This included nails and understandably they are not very happy about this. So the neighbours son just chapped my door on behalf of his mum to complain about this.

    I was very sorry of course and assured him I would have a word with the builders, he thanked me and said that was all his mum wanted.

    I didn’t let him escape that easily though, I simply asked will you be supporting Independence when we get a second chance?

    He said YES, so not a convert but another who may speak out and help convert others.

    The polls are what they are but together we can confound the pundits just by converting person each. Don’t be shy it’s too important and You will make a difference.

    I love Wings and Wingers and wish you all the best. We can do this.

  382. Chick McGregor says:

    I hope folk are noting that the BBCS support for SLAB theory, that it was based on personal or familial connections with SLABites, a theory which at least had the merit of involving personal loyalty, is, at best, very much secondary to a much more sinister Britnat override directive one.

  383. schrodingers cat says:

    Hi FOS

    your point is well made, as much as the older generation gets slated for 71% of them voting NO, they make up by far the largest % of our canvasers and leafleters. ??

    maybe the younger generation campaign more on their keyboards?
    but as a constituency, nef has the largest % of over 85 yo’s in scotland
    so it is still necessary

    re yesnefife branching out to other areas, after indyref1, yesnef became more of a social event, meeting in pubs etc, so we never went away. we had already decided before the euref, to relaunch on the friday after the euref if it was a leave vote.

    so yesnef has had a head start on other yes groups but we are a very rural constituency and it would seem appropriate for us to gravitate towards the Yes city of Dundee, the largest and closest large population density

    I believe Yes Dundee has only recently relaunched and having yesnef on their borders will give them some encouragement.

    it should be pointed out that dundee council (and the polis) were very helpful, far more so than GCC are being at the moment, for obvious reasons. Dundee should be considered more often as a place of focus for yes campaigns, not just glasgow and edinburgh

  384. Ann says:

    With regards to the bus passes, I believe there is talk of raising the qualifying age to 65.

    I agree with this in a way. If you are 60-64 and work full time. Why do you need a free bus pass?

    Also heard that the Tory lead has actually fallen since Tuesdays announcement. Are people telling the pollsters porkies?

  385. Breeks says:

    @ Robert J. Sutherland 3:29

    Maybe, but I still don’t rate her as a PM.

    I can buy that Theresa has nothing to lose by going to the polls, but I don’t truly see what she has to gain. You can’t have the GE result standing as a reassuring last chance ratification of Brexit without risking that the UK electorate does not ratify Brexit. Even with a Tory landslide, I don’t see her Brexit mandate enhanced.

    All this talk about crushing Labour? Labour have done a spectacular job of crushing themselves. I rather suspect there are Labour MP’s having second thoughts about voting Labour.

    I’ll be honest, in recent weeks I’ve flagged up parallels with Tory policy and actual Fascism, and while it wasn’t exactly tongue in cheek, because the parallels do bear scrutiny, but a great redeeming factor was the actual absence of a charismatic Fascist lynchpin sitting in the drivers seat like a modern Hitler or Franco. I don’t think Theresa May is the same kind of megalomaniac, but we are approaching the stage whether that absence of frothing at the mouth megalomania can diffuse the Brexit powder keg and mollify the consequences, or whether we are about to see what happens when a guttural, grass roots fascism lacks its properly fascist hardcore leadership.

    I don’t think Theresa May has been clumsy, I think she has been much worse than clumsy. She has been completely out of her depth dealing with Europe, dealing with Trump, talking about post Brexit Trade Deals with the EU which every man and his dog could see were never on the table. Then there are her priorities post Brexit. London needs a special deal, Gibraltar needs a special deal, Northern Ireland needs special borders, and of course UK banks need a special deal and passporting, even bloody Nissan gets a mention in dispatches, but Scotland? Fk Scotland. They have to suck it up and do what they’re told.

    Put it all together, and I don’t see a Fascist Britain restoring its national pride as a mighty Imperial powerhouse that people have to take notice of. What I do see is a Britain that continues to decline until it is nothing more than a fuddy duddy curiosity on the perifory of Europe. Nobody will be buying British cars. Nobody will be asking Britains opinion. Nobody will be booking their Summer holidays in Britain.

    The million dollar question is whether Scotland is still attached or whether it has got its act together and taken control of its own destiny. And that is a question, because Scotland has given the SNP its mandate to govern Holyrood, and fill the Scottish seats at Westminster with SNP bodies, and yet there are days when it doesn’t seem that Independence is any nearer than yet another referendum. We have council elections in May, and and General Election in June, but with luck, we can maintain the same electoral high water mark, but what then?

    Another referendum? Like another SNP government? We will never be in a stronger position to lobby for Scottish self determination when an undemocratic, xenophobic foreign majority is threatening to remove our Country against its will from the bosom of Europe. We have a pro-Indy majority in Holyrood, not the first either, and we can scarcely secure a greater share of Westminster seats than we currently hold. The UK teeters on the brink of societal collapse, economic ruin, and plummeting standard of living. It’s Prime Minister is only in office having drawn the shortest straw. Her party has made itself the global laughing stock, and yet here we still sit, taking all our cues from the BBC and the BBC’s agenda, and tut! tut! tutting about the shocking bias and a Tory government which values Nissan’s interests above Scotland’s.

    I have to tell it like it is, if the Scottish National Party cannot seize the day; cannot take all of these grievances, anxieties and humiliations and transform it into an unstoppable momentum for Independence, then maybe it’s the SNP who is coming up short. We are neither too wee, too poor, or too stupid. But are we too timid?

    Don’t tell me how you hunger for Independence. Show me. Show me Independence is something you want, not that it is merely the least worst alternative.

  386. HandandShrimp says:

    If Labour do crash and burn on June the 8th I look forward to hearing how it is all our fault 🙂

  387. Rock says:


    “Personally I find that very strange but it is the reality. Some people are just lost causes.”

    As I told you a long time ago, Tories were always a lost cause:


    “Embrace the NO voters, even the Tory ones if you hope to reach your ultimate goal.”


    “Target and embrace the ones who can be persuaded.”

    “Do you seriously believe that spending limited resources on persuading Tories in Scotland to vote for independence is a good idea?”

  388. Clapper57 says:

    @ Chick McGregor says @ 5.57pm :

    “If ALL the erstwhile SLAB voters lent their vote to the Tories it would be about half the seats each”.

    Personally Chick I find it mind boggling that a Labour supporter would even consider voting Tory irrespective of their …Hmm….reasoning….I am not being naive just honest.

    Imagine having to vote against everything you think you believe in and subsequent to your vote the Tory you voted for is elected and worse still the party you voted for, under duress…Hmm…. i.e. the Tories win the election thanks to you and others like you.

    Every day you have to live with the consequences of your actions and with every new Tory policy, some of which will be detrimental to you and yours, you will know….in your head…. that if you condemn the Tories in any way you are but a hypocrite….no ifs no ands and no buts.

    And that is a fact. No shit about Union and Independence. You need to take responsibility that YOU a supposed Labour supporter decided to vote Tory. Don’t dress it up as a vote for the union.

    And that Ladies and Gentlemen is REAL division. Division generated by so much hate that you are willing to sacrifice your own party to vote for a party you do not believe in to stop another party who seeks to promote and fight for your country and its people…..four years is a long time to live with a mistake….and come next election no guarantee things will have changed… what will YOU a Labour supporter do ?

    Is this the legacy of Blair and new Labour that those who support them in Scotland find it so easy to transfer their allegiance to Tory scum and hide behind fake causes to justify it ?

    There is no reasoning with stupidity but I can hold my head high knowing that I voted for a party I believe in and I NEVER need to regret my vote. Now that is real democracy….choosing a party who you want to win and who you believe in and never ever having to compromise.If Labour supporters do compromise then they will have to live with their tactical choice and also their conscience….I wish them luck…they will need it.

    ps may read as if I am stating YOU are a Labour supporter Lol ….not of course …just the way I have written it….i.e. badly and quickly Lol….obvs calling out Labour supporters in general who switch vote to Tories in defense of the Union….cause other than that the Tory policies are Soooooo good for us working class peeps….especially us Scots …….Wahahahaha.

  389. K1 says:

    ‘Just like you I am entitled to an opinion’

    Didn’t say you weren’t.

    ‘K1 – can we go a bit easy on the language. This blog is the best we’ve got. Don’t spoil it. I’m as angry at the way we are treated as you are.’

    ‘K1 – i’m afraid I view your response as impolite and completely over the top. I asked you politely to go easy on your language. It would appear that you have been stung into a childish reply. I’m not “holier than thou” or better or worse than anyone else in accordance with the way most of us in favour of a better Scotland feel. I have to point out to you that you can not take it upon yourself to represent everyone. Sorry you can’t be reasonable – something we accuse the unionists of often!’

    ‘K1 – I’m afraid, and hope, that it’s only your possible embarrassment that has taken you over the top again! I’m not annoyed. I don’t want to run anyone’s blog. If you assume you can use any language you like then you are assuming that everyone agrees with your usage. I expect better from people who contribute to this blog – mostly it is terrific and should not be spoiled for the personal choice of a few. The f word is used occasionally here – I don’t like it much but I can put up with it. The c word that you used is seen by many to be threatening to women and in my opinion not appropriate on this blog – we need more women on our side not less!’

    ‘K1 – just been able to catch up and see that you really need to read my first post again and see what I objected to and still object to – not you, not your views and not use of all strong language . Just like you I am entitled to an opinion. Despite excuses made the c… word is of a different nature than other swear words. I won’t go through this again. But remember you don’t set the standard for anyone but yourself!’

    Bill? I just re read your first post again. And then your second, then your third and now your last one directed specifically at me.

    You have made this ‘personal’ when ah didn’t agree with your ‘opinion’ you resorted to re contextualising my responses as ‘childish’ , ‘impolite’ and accused me, falsely stating that I have ‘taken upon yourself to represent everyone’? Which I didn’t.

    Further that I have responded in a manner that ‘is over the top’ and inferred that I should be ’embarrassed’, you’ve also stated that because I used the word cunt that I’ve assumed that ‘everyone agrees with your usage’, which I didn’t. Bill am I not ‘entitled’ to my opinion in response to yours?

    It is you who is now accusing me of an attempt to ‘set the standard’? When it is clearly the case that it is ‘you’ who has attempted to tell us all what the ‘correct’ standards are that ‘you’ expect ‘better from people who contribute to this blog’.

    That’s utterly hypocritical Bill. You should re read your own comments before continuing to make a fool of yourself on this excellent blog.

    Let’s be clear:

    I clearly and concisely responded to your first comment Bill. You’re not the site moderator nor the swear polis, stop trying to dominate by shaming and guilting in an attempt to undermine someone when they disagree with your opinion Bill.



    Back to the day job…

  390. Rock says:


    “Bill…you can go easy if you want and I’d like tae see ye say that tae the Rev, this isn’t your blog and I’ll await a rebuke from the Rev if ma language is an issue for him. Don’t start wi the holier than thou pish Bill…there’s no language strong enough for the way that ah feel regarding any Tories being elected from Scotland come June.

    I’m not ‘debating’ this wi ye Bill. Simply…get aff me.”

    Typical Robert Peffers and K1 attitude to other posters who might dare challenge their posts.

    They think they have the right to post whatever they want and attack anyone they want but others don’t.

  391. Thepnr says:

    Rock says:


    “Personally I find that very strange but it is the reality. Some people are just lost causes.”

    As I told you a long time ago, Tories were always a lost cause:


    “Embrace the NO voters, even the Tory ones if you hope to reach your ultimate goal.”

    Guess what Rock I stand by every word I wrote then, Embrace the NO voters, even the Tory ones if you hope to reach your ultimate goal.

    Only a fool would neglect support from wherever it came. Which has me thinking.

  392. K1 says:

    Ah take yer points Robert. I was too quick fire ‘tap o ma heid’ and aiming at those who ‘take’ these words as such as part of the conditioning of ‘unbecoming’ language and from whence and whom they learned it wis ‘bad’…always welcome a slap fur shoddy work though… 😉

  393. Rock says:

    Hamish100 (23 April, 2017),

    “Peace Always — say it too often and it loses its impact.”

    Rock (15 April, 2017),

    “As for Smallaxe, who else would sign off every post with “Peace Always” or similar apart from the re-incarnation of Mother Theresa?

    Axe in one hand, Bible/Koran in the other, right Smallaxe?

  394. K1 says:


    You’ve been stalking me since our conversation haven’t you Crock…is that it, is that aw ye’ve goat oan me….


  395. Rock says:


    “Some people are just lost causes.”


    “Guess what Rock I stand by every word I wrote then, Embrace the NO voters, even the Tory ones if you hope to reach your ultimate goal.

    Only a fool would neglect support from wherever it came. Which has me thinking.”

    Only a fool fails to realise that embracing “lost causes” is stupid.

    As a sensible independence supporter, I would not “neglect support from wherever it came” but I would not actively try and seek support from “lost causes”.

    Swallow your pride Thepnr instead of playing with words to justify yourself.

  396. Hamish100 says:

    Smallaxe says:
    23 April, 2017 at 3:06 pm
    Hamish100 says:
    23 April, 2017 at 2:33 pm
    “Small axe etcetera.”

    Firstly, the name is Smallaxe, not Small axe etcetera. Secondly, sharing it with my reflection in a mirror, who do you think I am, the evil queen from Snow White?
    Finally, “Personally if it doesn’t help independence don’t do it”. What you do “Personally” is of no interest whatsoever to me and try calling me a troll to my face and I will show you just what kind of impact Peace Always can have.

    Peace Always

    Lost the argument I think. I think your threat of violence shows this. Mr Angry hidden underneath your exterior or is it posterior? lol

  397. K1 says:

    Pushing it Crock..ya wee jealous nonentity.

  398. Thepnr says:


    You are nothing, a complete nonentity in the grand scheme of things. One thing you are useful for though is giving us a laugh.

    Thanks for that and remember, if you meet any Tories try and persuade them to vote Yes. Even you know that we have to persuade any that we can whatever their current political persuasion.

    Or maybe you don’t LOL.

  399. Rock says:


    “if you meet any Tories try and persuade them to vote Yes.”

    I am not “bloody stupid” LOL.

    Robert Peffers says (to Thepnr):
    27 March, 2017 at 7:40 pm

    “Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid. First of all you are not the person who decides what the purpose of the Rev Stu’s blog is. That’s the Rev Stu’s choice to make. Secondly you probably wouldn’t recognise a real Troll if it was chewing on your ear.”

    I mean no harm to you and share many of your views but your attitude to me is exactly the same as Scottish Labour’s attitude to the SNP.

  400. K1 says:

    You say nothing on here about independence, blowing yer own trumpet…look at me, look at what ah said, ahm right everybody else is wrang…you couldn’t lick Peffers boots Crock. As for attacking Smallaxe, I’ve been trying to work out yer angle oan that…there is only one obvious trait at the heart of why people behave as you do toward others you feel threatened by…jealousy, pure and simple.

    Hamish you should be utterly ashamed of yourself, I thought you were some sort of Christian church going type? Even if you aren’t why would you purposefully attack Smallaxe because he says Peace Always at the end of his posts?

    What is it wi you two and your attack on him? Playing the man? That certainly is in the ‘what not to do on Wings’ rules? You both just revealed yersel’s as utterly bereft of kindness or good will for no other reason than spitefulness. Nasty nasty mind’s. Nasty nasty characters. Not because ‘ah’ say so…your own words reveal your true nature’s on here.


  401. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Aye, Aye Rock.

    Still getting £1 for every 10 words fae Tuba Boy and Better Together?

    The cut’n’paste quotes must really be upping your day rate.

    7 important weeks for Scotland Politically and you’re upping the division and thread killing antics.

    Your handler must be so proud.

    Said it before and I’ll say it again Rock

    You’ve nothing to say and you are using too many characters to say it.

  402. Rock says:


    “Pushing it Crock..ya wee jealous nonentity.”

    Why should I be jealous? I am LOL.

    I recognise things long before other posters do.

    Thepnr – wanting to embrace “Lost causes” – Tories.

    Hamish100 – seeing through Mother Teresa’s re-incarnation.

    Bill McLean – seeing through you.


  403. Thepnr says:

    Hey Rock

    Good advice. Stop digging that hole, now your just embarrassing yourself and your outfit.

  404. Rock says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker,

    “Aye, Aye Rock.

    Still getting £1 for every 10 words fae Tuba Boy and Better Together?”

    To prove your point, direct me to one post where I said anything in favour of Better Together or the unionists.

    If you do, I will point you to 100 comments I have made in favour of independence and the SNP.

  405. K1 says:

    What argument did he lose Hamish? Your provocations are mysteriously absent in your reply? You weren’t arguing Hamish, you were insulting to him and not for the first time. Why are you provoking posters and then crying ‘foul’ when they respond appropriately to ‘your’ attacks by defending themselves against your provocations for no reason at all? It is you who epitomises violence…in this regard, a man with no ‘beef’ with you at all writes Peace Always at the end of his posts and you ‘attack’ him for that.

    Tell me that is not the action of a man who is violent Hamish?

  406. K1 says:

    Crock…you’re revealing all your cards at once. Keep it going.

  407. Rock says:


    “Hey Rock

    Good advice. Stop digging that hole, now your just embarrassing yourself and your outfit.”

    I will leave readers to decide who is digging the hole.

    Anti-Rock, Robert Peffers cult members arguing with each other.

    While you keep on embracing Tories.



  408. Rock says:


    “Hamish you should be utterly ashamed of yourself, I thought you were some sort of Christian church going type? Even if you aren’t why would you purposefully attack Smallaxe because he says Peace Always at the end of his posts?”

    For your information K1:


    “I am not a Christian but I have read the bible, this, from the New Testament.”

  409. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    OK, two points still worth highlighting here:

    Firstly, we should actually welcome this zooming from the pollsters about a 13-seat gain. Of course the Tories are seeking to present themselves as the “winners”. =cough= But when their gain turns out to be half of that at most, it will look pretty lame. And pathetic in comparison to the SNP’s overall share.

    Secondly, and this is something everyone seems to be missing, the Tories may be presenting this as a frontal assault on the SNP (and any wins gratefully accepted along the way, of course) but their actual thrust is at the backs of their co-Unionists, Labour. They don’t want to peacefully co-exist with Labour, they want to destroy it and replace it as the (supposedly) “official” opposition to the SNP.

    And the wonder of it all is that Labour, in their visceral hatred of the SNP, still seem blissfully unaware whence the danger now comes. El Gordo’s futile sacrifice for Cameron in 2014 wasn’t enough – they all seem just as stupidly determined to follow him down Dead End Street.

  410. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    It is your “division and thread killing antics” that mark you out Rock.

    You use disruption and try to sow dissent to neutralise threads.

    This has increased in its intensity and frequency in line with the level of panic in the Unionist ranks.

    You will, I have no doubt continue to prove my point for me.

  411. Robert J. Suherland says:

    I don’t know if any of you happen to know of the indie sci-fi film “Dark Star”, but its wonderful central conceit is a talking bomb. It eventually malfunctions and the crew of the spaceship have to keep it talking to prevent it doing its day job.

    Skimming through this latest exchange with Rock just reminded me of this, I can’t think why… (!)

  412. Thepnr says:

    What Rock seeks is abuse. Seriously a Unionist Masochist you couldn’t make it up.

    I’m going to to ignore the twat and that will really annoy him LOL. Eh Rock?

  413. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Well it didn’t take long to validate my hypothesis at 9:22pm did it Rock?

    @Rock says at 9:14 pm

    “I will leave readers to decide who is digging the hole. Anti-Rock, Robert Peffers cult members arguing with each other. While you keep on embracing Tories. “Hahahahahah…””

    Division and dissent are your modus operandi as I said.

    Disrupting WoS your raison d’etre.

    You still get a bonus for “making ‘Cyber Nats’ really lose it”?

  414. K1 says:

    There’s no longer a need to differentiate between Labour or Tory Robert. It’s plain it’s the Union or bust in Scotland, I think that Labour were happy tae sacrifice themselves on the alter of Unioism. That’s why it doesn’t matter that they are now where they are, they’ve made it plain, there is ‘no going back’, how can they?

    Everyone who voted Labour for the ‘right’ reasons up till the referendum have since realised that their party was Tory lite and turned instead to the SNP. So how can they come back in Scotland, there is no support here, not from any rational person who understands what has taken place?

    Tories will hoover up the remnant die hards…as instructed now by the only Labour MP in Scotland. There’s no Tory revival, ex Labour aren’t ‘lending’, they are aligning with the Tories to stop the SNP.

    If indeed polls instruct rather than reflect then it’s unlikely the wins will be as stark as those polls suggest. They are testing the waters in that case with the sole purpose of emboldening their rhetoric and further demosinsg SNP voters tae ‘prevent’ further heamorraging of remaining Labour voters going over to the SNP?

    We have the advantage…they know it, it’s ours to lose…and we won’t lose to the degree that those polls indicate as long as there is no complacency.

  415. Thepnr says:

    Here’s a song we can all love.

    Does that take the wind out of your sails Mr Rock WATP and your not.

  416. Bill McLean says:

    K1 …..Unfortunately I can’t spare the time to be on here all the time and a late response is the best I can do. All of this because you can not accept that I object to your use of word c..t – that is considered threatening and abusive by most women. Really seriously sad!

  417. Thepnr says:

    Hi Rock

    Thought I’d play you just one more cos I know you’ll love it.

  418. K1 says:

    Really Bill…by all means object to the word cunt. Try accepting that I did not ‘not accept’ your objection. I also did not ‘direct’ that term to you.

    I merely pointed out it is not up to you to censure others on here. You don’t like the word, fine. Stop masking it with your own assumptions and generalisations (regarding how ‘you’ view women’s interpretation of the word) to justify your lack of acceptance for my choice of word tae convey what I felt at that time.

    It’s not up to you to set the standards in terms of language on Wings Bill, it’s not your blog. And it’s hypocritical to accuse others of doing something (even when they haven’t) that you regard as ‘wrong’ and do that exact ‘wrongful’ thing yourself?

    It’s like you want me to just agree with you because you ‘think’ you’re right? You may well be ‘right’ for you Bill, but you also have to extend that same ‘sense of what is right for you’ to others?

    Whether you agree with them or not Bill. It doesn’t matter about your ‘moral’ judgement on this, that’s your value system but again you have to afford others the ‘right’ to choose words that to them are not ‘valued’ in the way they are for you?

    I have no problem using the word ‘cunt’ Bill, and generally reserve it for real anger, that does not make me ‘right’ for everyone Bill, nor does it presume or assume that others will ‘like’ me using the word? But I’m not saying it to get it ‘right’ for you or anyone else, it was ‘right’ for me at that time. It’s why I won’t ‘second guess’ masel’ over this.

    It’s not okay for you to respond to me by becoming personal Bill, to attempt to humiliate me or shame me into some sort of retraction because that’s clearly where you went with this? So now we have a similar situation in reverse, you dipped into what was ‘right’ for you, according to your ‘values’ you didn’t consider for a moment the ‘impact’ on me because you were getting it ‘right’ for you? Those ‘words’ that you chose were aimed specifically at reducing the ‘validity’ of my point Bill, to suggest I would be ’embarrassed’ or that I had ‘resorted’ to a ‘childish’ response was an attempt to ‘make’ the other ‘look small’.

    I could argue all the live long day Bill that your language and more saliently ‘manner’ of relating is more damaging to relations between others than an off the cuff ‘cunt’ here and there in moments of anger?

    I hope you understand Bill, I don’t mind having the discussion about this but ah genuinely abhor that particular approach, wherein the attempt is made from the get go to ‘attack the person’ and make them out as some ‘inferior’ because of the use of a word one doesn’t like? And ah cannae abide hypocricy.

    I will argue the merits of your point when you are ready to be a mature debater who does not resort tae cheap swipes at your opponent’s character, and until you can acknowledge that you too are just as capable and have in your past indulged in ‘word usage’ that others may find…difficult.

    it disnae make anyone a ‘bad’ person Bill. And it certainly disnae make anyone a ‘guid’ person whit word usage they utilise in expressing themselves. I’m fluent in broad Glaswegian and English…they are interchangeable and I’ll never apologise for being masel’. Plenty o fish in the sea…plenty o wimin ah know never had a problem wi this cunt. 😉

    Take it easy Bill, nae harm tae ye.

  419. Hamish100 says:



    Union troll.

    Trying your best for WoSc to get slated by the gutter press and hey ho you are waiting for them.

    Nae Harm tae you son.

  420. K1 says:

    Why are you attacking Smallaxe for putting Peace Always at the end of his posts Hamish?

    Why are you breaking Wings rules? Playing the person? Think no one sees ye Hamish?

    You’re not the moderator on Wings Hamish. End.

  421. Smallaxe says:


    I had to go out this evening for a few hours, I came home and saw you fighting the “Good Fight” not only for yourself but also for me. I thank you, my good friend, and hope to meet you in the near future to enable me to thank you personally.

    I truly appreciate your passion and obvious compassion for others, I am proud to call you my Friend.

    My heart is in my words.

    Peace, Love and my best wishes to You and Yours.

  422. Bill McLean says:

    Sorry K1 – i’m afraid it would appear that my asking you to refrain from using a word that it is threatening and offensive to women continues to fall on deaf ears! There are so many diversions in your comments to me I just don’t have the time to point them out but I don’t know how many times I have to repeat that I have no problem with you or your opinions just the use of that c… word. I can’t for the life of me imagine any grown up man using that word in front of their mother, sister, wife or daughter – not even in anger or even rage. I disagree with – do you get it yet? Do you get it yet that you set standards for yourself that may not be acceptable to all?

  423. Smallaxe says:

    Sorry, Bill, why do you continue to talk to deaf ears, that as you say you disagree with.Your own standards may not be acceptable to all either but like everyone else you are entitled to your own opinion, this has gone on for far too long now without resolving anything and will probably continue as such.

    Why not just agree to disagree and leave it at that Bill? WoS contributors arguing amongst themselves may do more harm than a word that my friend K1 used in his frustration and anger yesterday. I sincerely hope that you have a good day my fellow Winger.

    Peace Always

  424. Bill McLean says:

    Smallaxe – thanks for your considered response. I don’t set standards for anyone but myself – others are totally at liberty to disagree with them. I have written such to K1 on a number of occasions. Division may be harmful to our cause but ill-considered comment can do as much damage and i’m sure you are aware that unionists read and will use any such comments against us when they can. You are right that it is pointless carrying on this debate. I believe in peace and love too as well as RESPECT. Thanks again and may you and yours have peace and happiness for ever!

  425. Smallaxe says:

    Bill, thank you, for same.

    Peace, Love and Solidarity, my friend

  426. Hamish100 says:


    No I ain’t the moderator just asking you to moderate your language that many find offensive and can be used by the unionists against us.
    You know it is offensive. What would you say if I told you my granddaughter finds it offensive. In a year year she can vote for Indy.
    Too much to ask?

  427. K1 says:

    I used one word Hamish, get off your soap box…you intolerant little ranter, when are you gonnae answer the question about your unprovoked attacks on Smallaxe?

    You’ve a total brass neck lecturing others on here about a ‘word’ you don’t like, no matter how you justify it Hamish, it’s just your opinion, blackmailing me wi what ‘you’ ‘think’ which is utterly unproven is pathetic. When you yourself indulge in some of the lowest conduct which ‘is against the rules of this site’, which btw my word is not in breach of (you don’t like it, then scroll past), on a regular basis Hamish?

    Total hypocrite Hamish, answer the question about your own conduct, before taking up on a conversation, that had nothing to do with you in the first place and which you jumped in on to attack another poster on here with no provocation whatsoever?

    I will not ‘bow’ down to your morality Hamish, it is toxic and hypocritical, no matter ‘how’ you dress it up. Ever.

  428. K1 says:

    Oh you are happy to be an associate of Crock’s now too by the looks of it Hamish, you who relentlessly pursues him over the issue of the National and criticise him over his ‘not reading papers’ yet criticising those who read the National?

    Yet you stood with him last evening whilst he provided ‘hauners’ in attacking Smallaxe for putting ‘Peace Always’ at the end of his posts?

    You this ‘moral’ man who apparently cares about his grand children’s sensibilities in terms of a word they will meet at some point in life, meanwhile you attack a poster for writing two words at the end of a post, alongside a known troubled poster who takes joy in humiliating that same poster and claimed you as part of his gang? Are you kidding Hamish?

    Why do you not explain hypocrisy and double standards to your grand children Hamish, and show them this thread in its entirety and let them judge for themselves, as any good guardian would wish their progeny to develop their critical faculties whether boy or girl should?

    Let them judge the entire exchange that took place over the day on this subject and let them see ‘when’ you jumped the bandwagon and see you attempt to humiliate someone for two ‘words’ that you find ‘objectionable’ ‘Peace Always’.

    You must think people button up the back Hamish.

  429. K1 says:

    ‘No I ain’t the moderator just asking you to moderate your language’

    I mean…seriously you can’t see that ‘is’ you moderating? (rhetorical)


  430. Rock says:

    Hamish100 and Bill McLean attack me at every opportunity.

    But I only respond to comments made, irrespective of who is making them.

    They are right in saying that K1 should not use the word he used.

    With just a bit of humility, K1 could have accepted their point.

    Instead he has responded with endless rants.

    Similarly Robert Peffers made a racist comment and instead of apologising went into all sorts of rants bringing in his late grandmother into it.

    Whatever Thepnr posts about me, I don’t think he is a bad guy.

    However, both K1 and Robert Peffers are aggressive verbal bullies and almost certainly nasty persons in real life.

  431. Smallaxe says:

    Hamish100 says:

    “language that many find offensive and can be used by the unionists against us.”

    Let me know if you find this offensive, Hamish.

    Peace Always

  432. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    I’m getting really, really tired of the personal spats between certain people on here.

    Wings has one moderator, and I’m it. Anyone saying anyone else has no right to post here is walking a very thin tightrope over Ban Canyon.

    Have I made myself clear?

  433. Cactus says:


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

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