Call the experts
Because when you really want people with their finger on the pulse of Scottish politics to analyse the implications of the Supreme Court decision on Brexit, where else would you go but to Channel 5’s The Wright Stuff, to hear from um, former rugby league star and haircut pioneer Martin Offiah?
OFFIAH: My first story is from the Telegraph, page 6. Nicola Sturgeon is not very happy. [sniggers] And she’s stepped up the rhetoric for, obviously, she wants independence. But I think, no one is really listening to Scotland. Really, are they?
And Nicola Sturgeon has promised to give Holyrood a vote on Article 50 even though it’s going to be symbolic. I think their whole involvement in this fiasco has really been pretty symbolic.
WRIGHT: It was a national UK referendum, it was non-binding….
OFFIAH: 60% of Scottish voters wanted to Remain but we’re still leaving, and once we’re out they’ll have to.. if they want to get independence, I’m led to believe they’ll have to reapply, themselves. If things all go wrong in Scotland, then obviously we might have to build our own wall for Scottish people who…
WRIGHT: Or repair the one we’ve already got. [smirks]
OFFIAH: But for Scotland, it won’t be legal unless we say it’s legal. So everything is going to be symbolic for Scotland. They’re not really in a strong position.
WRIGHT: I think it’s been very badly handled from a Scottish perspective. All the way through.
You feeling that love and partnership again, readers?
Feel the love eh… It’s almost as if he doesn’t care…
The Wright Stuff has history when it comes to Scottish politics.
Thought Channel 5 was just for topless darts.
FFS! Spam Heed and Chrome Dome, a pair of ignorant twats.
If that doesn’t turn a no voter to yes I don’t know what will. Get the impression even if Mayhem burgled a Unionists house and took a massive dump on the the living room carpet they would still vote no.
Tomorrow on The Wright Stuff:
Kris Akabusi discusses the legal underpinnings of the Sewell Convention with Eddie ‘The Eagle’ Edwards.
It’ll still be more enlightening than 95% of Channel 5’s output…
Could we set up an online fundraiser to send Mr Robert Peffers on a tour of England to educate those ignorant arrogant Englishpersons?
You up for it Robert?
Most of the rUK don’t know … and don’t care
And that goes for Westminster too 🙁
This is the first bit of Wright stuff I’ve seen since pre independence referendum 2014,
Thanks Rev for the beta test! I am glad my zoomdar is still operating within normal parameters
Statistics creep. The actual 62% Remain vote in Scotland is quoted as 60%, our population of 8.4% of the UK is quoted as 7%, the number of MPs currently 59, which would be 54 if the same ratio as the UK as a whole (with 1 MP and a massive expense account and 48 hours in a day for Shetland, Orkney, the Western Isles and probably Caithness and Sutherland instead of the current 3 MPs), becomes as low as 20 MPs for the whole of Scotland. Unionists don’t do statistics. Or “Fact!”.
They don’t do geography either, I’ve already seen one or two posters from Northumberland saying Hadrian’s Wall would put them in Scotland. I suspect some Northumbrians would actually be pleased.
Oh, and apparently Scotland joined the UK 309 years ago.
Dog food salespeople as economists, rugby league players as politics experts, what next will the Unionists have to resort to as all the people with any expertise back Independence for Scotland – a tiddlywinker as their currency expert? DJ as their legal bod? That’ll be music to the ears.
Is that a zip on top of Offiah’s head?
dinnae worry wright stuff,we will
build the wall before you .
just to keep arrogant xenophobic
ignorant and stupid people like you
in your own little country
The usual Londoncentric shite from that particular programme.
A shame, I quite like the man; he has a Panther motorcycle.
That kinda sums up the level of in depth debated this programme has on anything. Host struggle with complex concepts like impartially and the restraint of law (broke enjuction live on TV)
A couple of chumps.
Will be laughing on the other sides of their stupid faces when reality kicks their arrogant little world into touch.
Its moments like this that make you think sod the lot of them just cut off the electricity and petrol supplies once we get indy.
Surely,this guy must know it’s a union,which needs more than one part to become a union.. We are a country,with our own laws etc. We also have a First Minister who was elected under a year ago,on a platform of an indyref in response to Brexit.
This show has form onself determination. I may be wrong,but was this the same show that had a former this morning presenter who also ranted about independence?
* on self determination
I asked my cocker spaniel what he thought of the implications of the Supreme Court decision on Brexit. His reply had more credence than anything that bunch of numpties offered. (He said ‘Woof’)
Bombard them with texts or e-mails to apologise, They had to the last time. When the shoplifter wino lied. About how they subsidise Scotland etc. Wright had to apologise. He usually says Westminster/Thatcher took all the Oil revenues etc. Provoked the miners.He comes to Scotland to go fishing. Was critical of the Hillsburgh cover up. Inquiry. London riots when people got jailed for taking a bottle of water. Yet bankers were not jailed.
Or just boycot the programme. They are so out of touch. It is really embarrasing. Ex Sun show biz reporter. He was quite supportive of IndyRef1. Thought Scotland should go for it and was quite surprised when ‘No’ came in. Dislikes Westminster politicans, with a vengeance. Left wing credentials. The London luvvies are reallly out of touch.
You think that’s bad, wait til you see Tracey Ullman doing her Nicola Sturgeon impression, BawBagCentral were punting it with graet gusto just before their advert for the new Scottish “political” show now airing on 2, which is utter shite.
A bunnle o laffs fae them trolling arseholes!
I hope they do rebuild Hadrians Wall after independence, we’ll get about 1/2 a million acres of Scotland’s land back. Alba gu bràth.
Re Martin Offiah; to paraphrase Piers Morgan: “He’s only a rugby League winger” – and a not particularly special one at that.
Is there a point to Channel5? Do really stupid people watch it or something? I honestly do not remember the last time I watched ANYTHING on it.
What’s this?, talk about rubbing our face in the dirt.
I understand that Theresa May is/has given D.Trump a QUAICH, ( a Scottish cup of friendship),
What gives her the right to drag our name through the mud?!, and yes, she’s doing it deliberately.
God Rev this site really is an education.
Not only does England own Scotland, and we need to apply if we want to say anything, but it seems that the Romans actually signed the deeds to Hadrian’s wall to the English.
They, the English may need to re-build the wall that they have!
Uneducated, ill-mannered buffoons have all the necessary qualifications for a job in UK media.
Absolute Bastards!
Yet another reason Broadcasting should be devolved and a Scottish Broadcasting Corporation set up as juat like BBC / Sky paper reviewers etc they just haven’t a scooby about Scotland.
Another great artivcle by Iain Macwhirter in The Herald to-day
http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/15047979.Iain_Macwhirter__How_Holyrood_has_become_a_parliament_in_name_only
@David Noel 9.29.
My lab/springer x went ‘squeak!’ on his rubber duck.
Don’t know if that helps or not.
betty boop@9.20
naw thats just his brain
@Muscleguy
Channel 5 has some good sifi and the rest of it is bad fiction.
The guy Offiah is an ignoramous. Matthew Wright should know the score but they consult the London Press/MSM. In an ever decreasing cocoon of self reflective, perspective bubble.
The ignorance of some people is more than astounding – how on earth are they allowed to spout such utter nonsense and get paid for it.
Rev,
Are you bored or somethin’? Want a wire brush for the bottom of that barrel? Please tell me someone brought that to your attention and you’re not sitting watching that daytime pish. Are you a glutton for punishment? Next you’ll be contacting Jeremy Kyle…. Vile Cybernats Make My Life Hell
Production in oil increasing to 2 million barrels a day in 2017, that’s about the same as Norway.
It’s because there are 14 new fields coming on-stream.
I was looking for news about North Sea oil production when I came across this article.
http://www.oilandgasinsight.com/industry-trend-analysis-brexit-uk-north-sea-oil-production-scenarios-sept-2016
“Brexit: UK North Sea Oil Production Scenarios – SEPT 2016”
There are just two..
“Downside Scenario – Scottish Independence Creates Less Attractive Investment Environment”
“Upside Scenario – Long-Term Confidence Reaffirmed In North Sea”
I leaning towards the downside scenario..
Which one would you prefer? 😉
Wait a minute @ Bilptoe says at 9:30 pm
You mean that isn’t a clip of the BBC s new Scottish “political” show 🙂
It just sounds like it was written for and approved by BBC Scotland Political Editor.
Same shite different channel.
Legal unless they say it’s legal! He actually thinks we are England’s colony. I honestly give up on English people.
They drag us out of the European Union and tell us to eat our cereal. Well when Scotland gets independence these two twerp will be banned from ever moving here when their tiny wee nation collapses.
I’ve only seen the Wright Stuff once, sometime before Indyref, and the subject was, yes, you’ve guessed it, Indyref.
That one was as intellectual as you would expect from the host, Richard Madeley and his guests, Katie Hopkins, the numb-minded Ronni Ancona and some bloke who really hadn’t a clue what was going on. Enough said about them. The audience were a milder version of what we have come to expect from southern panel programmes in the past few years.
Never even thought of watching it again, so, that’s the first time I’ve seen Wright in his seat. At least he seemed (in that clip anyway)to be embarrassed enough by Offiah’s ignorant arrogance to say that it had been handled badly all the way along from Scotland’s perspective.
It must be difficult deciding which numpties to pick for these programmes; so much choice.
There is a level of jealousy creeping in, or something like it. Obviously total ignorance which is widespread, they are quite thick in fact, how embarrassing. The usual britnat arrogance, it’s getting nasty.
The subtle but obvious othering in the britnat media, has been successful, and it is very sinister, because we all know what that can lead to.
Let’s just hope that this kind of attitude towards their neighbouring country, is largely kept at bay.
The people of England mostly know that brexshit is a totally negative, dark path to go down, and they want to take Scotland with them. They are ignorant of Scotland. I remember when friends in Northumberland in 2014 laughed, ha ha ha! ‘Little Scotland, ha ha, hardly bloody registers on the world stage, lol!’
Little england is fckd, they can get themselves out of the s**t.
Scotland is on a different, forward looking, modern, 21st century path, and they cannot bare to hear that!
Jockanese….cmon Shereen always has her finger on the pulse. Have you not listened to Shereen on Saturday with her Yoon luvvies. I feel all warm just thinking about that show…
To all newbies lurking, try and avoid the temptation of clicking on the direct link to the BUM rag in the comment at 9:35pm until someone puts up the archived version.
Clicking on that link helps that BUM rag to pull in advertising revenue and then they’ll pay churnalists to write mostly crap about Scotland. It’s what they do!
It’s about the Souf innit…the sweatie socks will just have to take it.
We are havin our country back…Englin rules jocks…get over it.
…and still my fellow Scots are happy to be ruled by a permanent majority at Westminster who cannot see beyond the self interest of the South. Scots who lack the vision to see the false dependency sold to them daily by a biased media. If only they could picture a better and fairer society rather than continue in the Matrix of the union.
More proof, as if needed, that you cannae expect anyone to have respect for you if you have no respect for yourself.
Listening to Ruth, Kezia and Willie today you could conclude that Scotland doesn’t even like itself.
Sounds like the conversation on the good ship, “what old boy, struck a berg, did we, that’ll show it, messing with the titanic, lovely tune that bands playing what!”
The iceberg just looks on.
re;mr.thms@9.45
What oil? Shhhh. Just don’t tell trump, seriously, they go to any lengths to get the stuff, any.
Oil production was almost stalled and taxed to the absolute hilt in the years running up to the independence referendum. Any mention of it in a big way just terrifies me, to be honest. For obvious reasons.
Like its that black man and his fellow englanders duty to decide, just shows you the arrogance/ignorance of these sadsacks towards Scotland, cant wait till we are away from them!
They’re slagging off our beautiful country fellow Scots..
Our home, our kingdom home.
That makes it 100% personal to ALL of us, not one person excluded.
We await the throwing down of your gauntlet..
Meantime and getting back to us,
Scotland, we love you.
X.
Pimps of BritNat zombie logic aren’t particularly self-aware and appear to struggle with articulating their principles, especially in the run-up to the complete paradigm shift in social reality that is about to be forced on Scots, against their democratically express vote on EU membership.
Alternatively, they are calculating, sleekit, authoritarian English nationalists. Whatever, the concept of liberty does appear to be beyond some.
Bottom feeders!
Doodlebob – Bring Me to Life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsBLGzTMFIM
P.S. I’m not sorry.
Ok – what do we have so far
UJK
KEECH
MORDOR
KEPPaD
rK
BULK
Anymore – and have I missed any?
You can tell he has been battered around the heed for a living.
Ignorant fools. My English Indy voting partner is wincing in embarrassment at them. To be expected, tho…
I watch the Wright Stuff regularly, as a retired person I have that luxury. I do it to see what is being said about us, the same as I still watch the BBC.
I can’t and won’t operate in an echo chamber, you have to know what the enemy is saying or how can you counteract it?
I don’t like what I hear, but I need to hear it.
dandy dons,
keep the colour of a persons skin out of it will you, it is not acceptable at all, and is irrelevant. Thanks.
CAnt really blame them. People enjoy a nice bit of bullying sometimes, the host especially
At least they didnt have on the BBC style Scotch cringer gimp, just thrilled to be there, mocking Scotland. Like say Ruth Davidson and her thieving jocks ice breakers, “Usually they put the Scots in a place where nothing can be broken. Or stolen for that matter!”
No idea who added the exclamation mark though, Ruth shouted it maybe.
Oh I don’t know…seems to me Offiah has a better grasp of things than Fluffy 🙂
Now I know how a Cherokee, Tlingit or Comanche feels in his/her own country. I should have known before; I should have been educated, but I went to school in Morayshire. Finest education system in the world. Envy of the civilised world. I haven’t a clue where I come from. ProudScot!
Damn, my comment on this has not yet appeared, and I didn’t copy it, so just saying again regards a commenter @9.59, just keep the colour of a persons skin out of it will you, not appropriate. Thanks.
Just feel that utter contempt.
Just for the education of the thick as sh*t English pr*cks on that tawdry TV show, ‘the wall you already have’, runs right through the middle of Newcastle Upon Tyne, down the Westgate Road, and finishes, oddly enough, in a place called Wallsend (no, really). So, whilst many Geordies might jump at the chance to join a progressive independent Scotland, rather than be part of the narrow minded bigotted racist, pig-ignorant England, it isn’t likely to happen.
The fact that so many English people raise the idea of rebuilding Hadrians wall, tells us firstly they are thick as sh*t, and secondly, they really, deep down hate Scotland and the Scots.
Oh wow! What a pair of Einsteins.
Y’know I’m a great believer in the old adage it’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
What you’ve got there with Messrs Wright and Offiah is yer akchul QED moment.
Get prepared for more of this and probably much worse as Angus Robertson steps into a London audience lions den on question time in half an hour.
Big Jock wrote on 26 January, 2017 at 9:45 pm:
“He actually thinks we are England’s colony. I honestly give up on English people.”
Jock, the only English people that matter in our fight for independence are the ones who make and call Scotland their home, and that goes for every other nationality too.
I don’t waste my time with, or lose any sleep over, the ones living south of the dyke. They will always think and act on what they believe to be best for England and rightly so.
Our problem, as we all know, are these types:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/delmontae.jpg
Aweright Andrew Mclean ~
The iceberg just looks on. That’s a belter bro!
(Calling Chris Cairns.. I wonder what you’re working on the now, so much choice to choose from this week. See ye Saturday.)
🙂
“The Wright Stuff has history when it comes to Scottish politics.”
The show is targeted at the mass market, so is a highly effective vehicle for promoting BritNat propaganda. The masses must not be allowed to question BritNat logic, as that might lead to a rejection of colonialism.
Perhaps this is what ‘soft-totalitarianism’ looks like?
@ Martin Offiah
Perhaps you might introduce yourself to Frantz Fanon before your next TV appearance?
I suppose when the UK Government treats Scotland with absolute contempt it is hardly surprising some people in England follow suit.
Just catching Theresa May’s arrival in Philadelphia. How did we end up with absurd woman as Prime Minister? This walking, talking cadaver is over there sucking up to Trump like a reluctant but desperate suitor. A guy who is today pledging his support for torture and tearing up the relationship with Mexico. He managed that today! And the UK Gov is all over this guy like a bad rash! Absolutely shameful.
Now we’ve got a segment on how great consumer confidence is and how all the brexit predictions turned out to be wrong:
“Frankly those gloomy predictions before the referendum haven’t come to pass”. Unbelievable.
Oh well, never mind- at least I can rely on Question Time for some serious political debate… Hope Angus read Stu’s piece earlier today on exports as I would bet my house on that being the zinger at the end Dimbleby uses to try and put us all in our place
That’s one major problem Stoker. Our English population still frightens me as by all accounts they vote no in huge numbers. We could be as much as minus 300,000 before a vote is cast.
Know thine opponent.
Former Labour MSP Graeme Pearson is the new public face for the Tory funded and Tory dominated Scotland In Union
His first public utterance is the usual drivel
http://www.scotlandinunion.co.uk/the_reality_gap
They’re just regurgitating the views the South British are being bombarded with daily. For these guys, it’s probably not propaganda, they believe it!
When the reality of a nasty Brexit and the death of the UK hits them across the forehead they are in for a huge, and unexpected, shock!
@ Greannach
Have you just had a moment of clarity Greannach?
People carrier @10.03
I made two suggestions on the previous thread at 10.14 and 10.18.
On BBC R4 between 5pm and 6pm tonight they were discussing the Brexit bill and the fact that MP’s would be tabling amendments. The woman being interviewed talked normally about Labour and Libdem amendments but when she got to the SNP she changed tone and said.. ‘oh, and er, the SNP, (snigger), well they’ve got rather a number, er, ‘
Yes, folks, they are starting to laugh openly at us – we must be winning.
Fiasco: a complete failure, especially a ludicrous or humiliating one.
Was trying to make sense of Scottish imports from England, but I am completely bamboozled, actually no one seems to know, ok there is bullisht that Scotland imports more than it exports, but if you hear that if spoken by anyone, then run away fast, as a lunatic is on the loose, it seems it’s so infantesimaly small in comparison to exports as to be embarrassing.
So it’s covered up. Or is it?
Who are these two??
Quite well observed Martin Offiah.
FM Sturgeon, and the rest of Scotland, voted not to be involved in that Fiasco.
Joemcg on 26 January, 2017 at 10:25 pm:
Aye! It’s always at the forefront of my political thoughts and i’m very much of the belief that many of them are up here to get the best of both worlds (in their eyes).
A lovely place to live, just look at the areas where they have mostly chosen to live (Aberdeenshire, Highlands, Argyll and The Scottish Borders. Add to that lots of freebies – meds, bus passes etc etc and only ever 2 or 3 hours drive away from mother England. What’s not to like?
I live in the Scottish Borders and they are everywhere and i sometimes doubt if we’ll ever persuade them over to our cause but you have to keep on trying. Having said that, i also live amongst many of them who have either turned (or at least that’s what they tell me) or have been as pro independence as i have.
I agree with your basic point Joe, and it’s a very valid one, but we can never afford to give up trying to persuade them. I’m a great believer in where there’s a will there’s a way.
BTW, not sure i agree with your 300k figure, i think it’s more than that but i can’t be 100% sure.
Meg merrilees says:
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ” – Mahatma Gandhi
They have put an awful lot of effort into ignoring us. Yes, now it’s the ‘sniggering phase’. Next, IndyRef2 and we will be on firmer ground and better prepared! 🙂
The Wright Stuff then goes on to discuss the English papers. The odd token Jock never complains and fits into the mold, not that the Scottish papers are any better.
Another Couple of True Detectives
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJH24ktbsFo
#Areoles
“Former Labour MSP Graeme Pearson is the new public face for the Tory funded and Tory dominated Scotland In Union”
And of course they can only get the numbers by voting with the Tories. So what nation he is talking about is anybodies guess.
The main problem is Labour has relied on tactics for so long and treats all things as simply political that they can’t grasp that Independence is driven by people’s need, not a party’s policies.
Channel 5? I think I can honestly say I have never watched anything on it!
Channel 5 (SD+HD)
w/e 15 Jan 2017
7 day data (Millions)
1 CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER (FRI 2100) 2.16
2 CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER (SUN 2103) 2.15
3 CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER (THU 2100) 2.14
4 CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER (FRI 2232) 2.06
5 CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER (WED 2100) 2.00
6 CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER (SAT 2232) 1.99
7 CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER (MON 2101) 1.98
8 CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER (TUE 2100) 1.87
OK, that explains why I have never seen anything!
@ Another Union Dividend
Here’s the archived version of that Scotland in Union guff:
https://archive.is/yICO6
– though I can see that giving them the clicks might make them complacent about their popularity, I couldn’t bring myself to do it!
Stoker-yep I think the borders are a lost cause to be honest. My understanding is that we have roughly 400,000 English people and I think about 100,000 voted yes. I may be completely wrong.
Call the experts. Could you Imagine YOU being a guest on THAT television show panel, how do you think you would react to that?
Hmm, mibbies it’s Soapbox Saturday instead, mibbies both, who knows, I guess we’ll all have to wait and see.
I’ve taken some photographs of the “Is the BBC MISREPORTING SCOTLAND?” billboard on Glasgow’s Clydeside Expressway. Will send them onto you soon cool people at http://www.informscotland.com
Have a fun Friday fellow folks, the weekend’s almost upon ye.
LOL, from the Tollygraph,p 6,so just a randomly picked story and not trolling at all.
Andrew Mc Lean @ 10.30
Article on the BBC pre 2014 ref.
http://archive.is/hAPiq
The most recent Scottish government figures, not including oil and gas, show Scotland sold £50.5bn in goods and services to the rest of the UK in 2013. The rest of the UK sold £62.7bn in goods and services to Scotland.
That’s a lot more than trade with the rest of the world, to which Scotland sold £21.3bn in goods and services, while importing £21.6bn from abroad.
Just watching Dimbelby trying to do the usual shouty silly jockos patronising Englishman thing on BBC QT there. Its nice to see, Angus Robertson’s game is matching Andy Murray world class and beating, he gets better and better.
Yet again barely concealed contempt from the “impartial” chair on QT to an SNP representative. Constant interruptions after producing the EU bill.
Well SiU or the orange order as they are better known have gone and got themselves a patsy an ex Labour one as well lol
Peek a boo OO we can still see you whats the matter afraid to face the Scots in person that you need a labour gimp as a fall guy lmao
Another Union Devided @ 10.28
Drivel it might be but they have pictures of pretty trucks..
Don’t be mean!!
He is Police Trained Lie Detector.
Being Headhunted by Jeremy Kyle as we speak… Mibbis?
Anyhoo let’s say all the Politicians listened to this drivel,and started ” working for a united Britain”…Was that how they put it?
What about the half of the country who don’t want a United Britain?
Just because the Politicians stop saying it the issues don’t go away!
Let’s take their fantasy even farther… Nicola Sturgeon announces tomorrow…She now think’s the Union is best after all…She would be lying and we would all know it.
Do they Imagine that if the SNP bowed out tomorrow there wouldn’t be others who step up??
Once again an argument for the Union that makes no sense..
A plea to stop talking about the future,as some people get upset Jeremy Kyle fodder right enough.
@Big Jock who said:
“They drag us out of the European Union and tell us to eat our cereal”.
here you go!
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2017/01/25/shut-up-and-eat-your-brexit-englands-decision/
@Merida says
=================
I thought the Rev did that so we didn’t have to?
Might be an idea, Angus Robertson, to mention when you are asked ‘Why a special deal for Scotland and not London’ by an English hate mob, that Scotland is a country. One of the two which ‘came together’ to constitute the Act of Union. London didn’t, Angus.
Just a thought, Angus.
Dimbleby just got his arse well slapped tonight by Angus Robertson. Well done that man. Didn’t allow him to interrupt.
I get the feeling that Dimbers is not a fan of Scotland or Independence. He actually states it was ” a Uk vote!” Get back in your box Jocks!
So much for a non political Beeb. Absolute disgrace.
Angus, Angus don’t compare us to London. Come on man!
Many Yes voters are frustrated that Unionist lies are not challenged nearly often enough, nor robustly enough, by SNP representatives on TV. In the following dialogue, former professor John Robertson throws some light on the matter.
(From IndyRef2)
RON MACLEAN
January 21, 2017 / 6:37 pm
Has anyone with the power to exert influence or pressure shown any interest in using your work?
Reply
JOHNROBERTSON834
January 21, 2017 / 7:20 pm
One or two of the newer SNP MPs did then they went quiet. Policy from the top is to be passive. Salmond might have been more keen to fight back.
People Carrier posted this earlier but it’s disappeared.
Anglo Saxon House Of Lords English.
ASHOLE
Somebody earlier posted a link , sorry can’t remember who, anyway I picked up that a certain Mr Trump is showing signs of this mental illness, looks about right to me.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
QT I wish Angus had turned to Dimbleby and said ” I expect to be hackled from the floor or perhaps by other panel members but not by the chair.”
Mind you..
Agreed!
Later on he missed the perfect chance to explain why Scotland deserves a special
deal but it must be difficult to always have the perfect answer lined up on live TV when more than one person is throwing questions at you same time and a live hate mob is starting to become vociferous.
Not much respect on show among that lot.
So glad you published this. Until 5 minutes ago I had no idea who any of these people are. However, I did hear a woman’s voice pipe up, “Or we might go to live there (Scotland).” So there was at least one sentient being in the room.
Joemcg
I think you are too pessimistic about the Borders. They voted solidly for Remain whereas just over the border-line they voted solidly for Leave. The difference was stark. In 2015 the SNP did well and Mundell hung on by the skin of his teeth and had thought he had lost. The Borders are not so far out of kilter.
Yes there is a demographic split on a Yes vote. People not born here and the elderly voted No by 70/30. It won’t be so bad next time because the older generation, as they inevitably have to, will give way and the EU citizens will not be swayed by Project Fear next time. On people from the rUK we should not be surprised that many want to keep the portal open. That is just a given of human nature and we should cherish those that vote with us.
If we can keep the spirit of Indy alive in the breasts of those Yes voters that voted Leave in the EU referendum I think we can do this. Where Trump is taking America and where May is taking us will make the choice a lot more clear cut.
OT
QT. Would somebody concerned with the programme TELL Dimbleby that he is NOT part of the panel & that his opinion is not what viewers want to hear.
The man is, basically, an irritation. Sometimes he puts “Alco Neil” & “Patronising Paxman” to shame.
Strange how the british state seems to be able to set one minority against another ssuccessfully through manipulation and maintaining ignorance.
Martin was an excellent rugby player, a torch carrier and a role model for black players! Martin has much to to be proud of in his sporting life, I say that as a Scottish rugby fan?
But may I humbly suggest Martin acquaints himself more thoroughly with Scottish politics and uses an empathetic approach when speaking about a minority in a multi national state.
Many minorities are not listened to in the multi national uk statte, with some mutual understanding and education, perhaps we minorities can learn to support each other and not to ridicule each other merely for the acceptance from smirking oaf!
Congrats to Fiona Campbell on winning the Kilmarnock East And Hurlford Council by-election.
SNP 1461 votes 48.7% (+2.1%)
Labour 881 votes 29.4% (-16.6%)
Tory 602 votes 20.1% (+12.7%)
Re Angus- I thought he was excellent. To put up with this extended version of the 2 minutes of hate and keep cool is more than I could manage. Sure- I was shouting at the telly a couple of times on points others have made but when you are being heckled by the audience, the panel and the chair it can’t be easy.
He nailed the inadequacy of the UK Gov bill on triggering article 50 and I think represented Scotland well. Also projected the SNP’s inclusive, modern, tolerant message.
Diane Abbott was getting a pretty rough ride too- the right wing BBC do not like her one little bit.
Hmm… I’m gonna call it and say what these 2 did here is racist and ignorant.
If a Scottish person said something this nasty about glorious England it would probably be headline news.
And who knew these 2 nobodies were such experts on the matter?
But you will STILL get no voters licking their arses and asking if they want a BJ etc, no matter how much these people insult the entire nation of Scots.
This really makes me want to stay in the Union. Aye, I’m feeling the love from our so called “countrymen”.
What a joke. I swear these idiots are paid to read this crap off a script… *sigh*
HandandShrimp-I think I just get the heebie jeebies when the borders are mentioned because when I was manning yes stalls in Edinburgh my sister was doing the same in border villages for the no side! Crazy eh?! Still argue with her to this day!
Why has he got a skelf sticking out his napper.
Another cunt that doesn’t know what walls end stands for and where it is.
Saw a sticker on a train that had the “Scotland in Union” stylised thistle-head/Union Jack logo, but the words changed to:
ScotlandIsUseless
A positive view of Scotland in the UK
Hope to see a few more to drive the point home!
I may be wrong but I think channel 5 is owned by the same pillock who owns the Daily Express. Some Australian who made his fortune peddling porn apparently.
Hmm… I’m gonna call it and say what these 2 did here is racist and ignorant.
There’s no such thing as a Scots race or English or British etc. Bigoted, is more accurate, xenophobic too.
Re trade
One of the links posted on a previous thread took me to a website article about trade with England. (Can’t remember which one, sorry.)
At the bottom were comments including one from a long-distance lorry driver of many years experience driving north south and back on a regular basis.
He simply stated that his lorry is always heavily laden on the southbound journey but often empty on the way north.
So it’s simple really, he knows that they need us more than we need them.
@Another Union Dividend
It’s a shame about Graeme Pearson, he would have been an asset for a security commission. His comments during Indy Ref 1 were more moderate than many. But from his article for Scotland in Union, it seems he’s become very embittered.
The UK has started, or is about to start, a unilateral withdrawal from a Union they will have been in for nearly 50 years.
The Lisbon Treaty acknowledges and details that procedure.
Note, this is NOT classified as being a UDI.
Even if at the end of the two year period designated there is no agreement whatsoever, this would still not be designated a UDI.
Only if at the end of that two year period, the rEU tries to insist that the UK remains a member but the UK withdraws anyway, could it be described as a UDI.
Fast forward to a Yes vote in indyref2.
Scotland, albeit with a union (UK) membership 6 times longer, likewise attempts to commence leave discussions with the rUK.
Of course, unlike the shambolic EU, there is no written constitutional procedure for this in the wonderful UK.
However, we are sure that the rUK will accord us exactly the same right to do so as the rEU did for the UK, right? After all, what is good for the goose…etc.
Wrong!
The rUK will first try to declare an indyref2 itself illegal, then, if that does not succeed will deny the mandatory nature of the result and the right of the Scottish people to begin a process of unilateral withdrawal from the UK at all.
The perversity inherent in that will count as nothing.
The ‘Supreme Court’ will be used as and when required to pronounce on ‘legality’.
To cut to the case, the status of UDI is not created by those who seek to exercise their human right to self determination as enshrined in international treatie, but by those who would seek to deny it.
And finally, as I have often said, I do not believe that the rUK would in the end, due to common interest if nothing else, willfully create a damaging UDI status to Scotland’s dissolution from the union.
Graeme Pearson is a crook. He got demoted in the Police to a desk job for consorting with major criminals in Glasgow. A major crime lord, as a confident and grass. Pearson turned a blind eye to his crimes. He was not charged or prosecuted for major drug dealing, violent behaviour etc (causing death in the community). He was not put in jail. Part of the bigotry community. Ferris? Wrote a book about criminal activities.
Pearson left and got elected to Holyrood. Full of Unionist criminals, defrauding public money. £Multimillionaires using their position to illegally access confidential information and access Gov contracts. The handshake. Wink, wink. Half leg trousering it. Major criminals.
How many Unionist politicians were not prosecuted for criminal activities? GCC -ECC Not prosecuted and the matters just swept under the carpet. Glasgow perverts, illegal warmongerers, Banking fraudster. Trams fraud. Transport fraud and spending sprees on extravagant uneccessary trips. Embezzlement. Westminster Unionists electoral fraud. UKIP electoral fraud.
Dirty Desmond (previous Mafia connections) An migrant. Sold Channel 5 for £100Million. To Viacom. Look on the internet to get the background.
@Ken500
🙂 🙂
Anyway, in the Herald from Conservative Peer (and ex SOS for Scotland) Forsyth: “NICOLA Sturgeon should “butt out” of Brexit and stick to her day job of being First Minister“.
Made me look up his famous quote again about if Scotland leaves the UK, the UK ceases to exist. I knew something had provoked him to tell the truth so openly, and had thought it was a minor wording error, but I found it was almost certainly this:
(Forsyth): “On an issue related to this use of language, the First Minister the other day referred to how after independence there would still be a United Kingdom, which is absolute nonsense.”
So Salmond had provoked him so much he forget himself and said this afterwards:
“If Scotland were to leave the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom would cease to exist.
. . .
I repeat that if Scotland leaves the United Kingdom, there will be no United Kingdom. I do not know what a kingdom represented by England, Ireland and Wales would be called.”
So typical a Unionist being so incensed by the SNP they will say anything, even to the ruination of their own cause. You’ve got to love them.
URL for that:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201212/ldhansrd/text/120228-0001.htm
“There’s no such thing as a Scots race or English or British etc.”
That said, culture is the expression of ethnicity and there can be no political liberty without freedom to choose your own identity. Tricky?
Tricky – Hell Is Round the Corner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3R_3h6zQEs
P.S. Still not sorry.
Forsyth – Thatcher’s henchman kept her secrets and covered up when she illegally and secretly offshore the Oil revenues. She swore her Minister to secrecy. Writing on Official documents released. ‘This must be kept secret’. Scorch earth policy in Scotland. 10% to 12% unemployment in Scotland. Over 3 million unemployed and interest rates at 15% in the U.K. A desperate period.
The revenues were invested in London S/E. Building up Tilbury Docks (26 miles), Canary Wharf and ‘loads of money Bankers’ Deregulated Banking, demutualise the Building Societies owned by their members and sold off untilities, Now owned by foreign State untility companies, Now smog in London. Centralised transport system around London S/E Increasing the chaos and congestion.
May – ‘no more illegal invasions’. She just voted in recent times to illegally bomb Syria. Cheered on by the Westminster Unionists crooks. She is such a hypocrite. Trump will not support her. Or go there. Left dangling.
Re-Tam Dalyell, that clip on Reporting Scotland made me spit my tea out. He said “The problem with calling it a parliament is that THEY want more and more and more powers!” Another servile “Scot.”
Mexico population is 123Million. US – 320Million.
Trump says, ‘Mexico is not treating the US fairly’ ? Irony.
Gives a few laughs.
MSM Trump about ‘torture’. Out of context. Usual suspects.
@heedtracker
Well, I’ve heard the term used whenever English say Scots are “racist” and “just don’t like the English and that’s why they want away from us, because they’re racist.”
No joke. This is why I used this terminology.
Someone should gently take them to one side before they make complete arses of themselves and explain to them that Hadrian’s wall is not on the Scottish English border but some thirty miles south in Northumberland.
Oops too late they have already made themselves out to be arses.
The Herald has corrected Jk’s tweet against Salmond saying that she was not correct.
BBC 2 Newsnight producer has pointed out the inaccuracies.
Re. Trump and his views on Mexico.
I am Zapatista, as I seek a world with space for many world views. I’m also Alex Salmond and so is my wife.
@Meg merrilees
Thanks for that, I missed the story yesterday, but read it just now. And the comments!
Joemcg;
You’re spot on about the Borders. I’m working and living in the area right now. Put on ITV news at 6pm, it covers Cumbria and Southern Scotland. Mostly Cumbria of course, with no positive Scottish news. The locals generally get even less truth about Scotland than the rest of us! The only people I meet who sympathise with us are Geordies working there!
On this laughable C5 show, I think Offiah should lead an English independence movement; he seems to be popular down there, and obviously a former rugby league poseur knows plenty about england’s altruistic aid to Scotland causing the NHS to suffer.
Cameron B Brodie @ 1.35
RE..Trump views on Mexico…..# Je suis Mexico.
Aye well. Mr Wright and his panel are all in for a rare sook in.
Though in fairness, the woman on the panel did say ‘or we might want to move there’ ! Perhaps a tad more savvy.
Mexico: NOBODY envies them their neighbours for the next four years.
In anycase, does anyone expect Donald Drumph to maitain his attention span for a whole four years?
There’s alot of ’empty’ land in the States begging to have a golf course built on it.
I hope no one is surprised at any of this. If you live down South you just don’t have much cause to know, think, ponder, contemplate the world outside of the Southern Bubble and a very nice bubble it is too – for so many poeple.
Ignorance is not the same as stupid. I met some lovely folks up in Turnpike Lane who thought Glasgow was the capital of Scotland. Ignorant, not stupid.
It’s not even that they don’t like us, they just don’t think about us all that much, and why would they, they’ve got plenty to be getting on with. It’s hard to really comprehend just how little regard they have for us, unless you’ve spent a decent amount of time down there and experienced it. Which is a shame, cos there’s a lot of folks up here would be shocked if they knew.
A nation of miserable ungrateful spongers, alchies, junkies etc etc…it’s not hard to punt narratives that feed into the stereotypical misconceptions. It’s easy to stick the boot in, ridicule Sturgeon, the SNP, Scotland cos there’s no alternative view in the mainstream media.
Be it the Metro, Mail, Standard, Times, Telegraph, Mirror, Sun, Guardian…you can flick through the pages on the tube of several newspapers in a day and have good reason to think that Scotland would be on life support if not for England. The truth is not over rated down there any more than it is up here.
Fuckin glad I don’t have a telly or watch it anymore. It’s only gonna get worse…these fuckers play a very good game. Bastards.
I see our glorious leader is sporting an Angela Merkel haircut in her American triumph. British press positively drooling this morn, sorry, New Dawn.
No sign of the Black Watch suit. Perhaps reserving that for an audience with POTUS and the quaich ceremony.
Y’know what’s been missing over the past few days? Something that’s occurred to most of us but seemingly has escaped yer meeja types in Scotland.
Where’s the mahoosive front page splash saying ‘VOW NOT DELIVERED’? Maybe a subhead of Scotland demands answers? Just a thought like, but there’s one or two daily titles out there who made a bit of an issue about ‘VOWs delivered’ and such.
The effective trashing/irrelevance of the Sewel ‘Convention’ does mean this is no longer possible. Right? At the very least it casts a helluva doubt over that supposed permanence.
So, meeja world. We’re waiting.
Links
http://indyref2.scot/bbc-scotland-cant-be-anything-but-corrupt
https://randompublicjournal.com/2017/01/26/not-quite-the-most-powerful-devolved-parliament-in-the-world/
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10196/dump-mctrump-scotland-present-alternative-gift-people-america
https://petewishart.wordpress.com/2017/01/26/why-the-next-indyref-will-be-different/
http://indyref2.scot/beware-british-perfidy
More Scottish Jobcentre closures announced by UK Government
http://archive.is/KXTqn
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/kalamity-kez-krushed-in-kilmarnock-as.html
http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/government_rushing_through_brexit_bill_is_a_contempt_of_parliament
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/david-davis-fails-rule-out-cut-paste-brexit-white-paper-theresa-mays-speech-1603199
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/01/26/no-longer-welcome-the-eu-academics-in-britain-told-to-make-arrangements-to-leave/
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jeremy-fox/england-has-been-resenting-europe-for-very-long-time
British lawmakers tell their prime minister: Your groveling in front of Trump is embarrassing
http://archive.is/1NGeD
Liked how when they were speaking about independence and rebuilding a wal, that the lady turned round and said maybe we should move there
OTW, but just watched the film Arrival. The most important aspect of the film is the importance of language to people/place. Sort of explained the concept of linguistics to me. A huge respect to those in the discipline. That is why I fully believed in and it reaffirmed my stance that Gaelic and Scots should be given recognition as official state languages of Scotland.
ChewinTheFat says:
Well, I’ve heard the term used whenever English say Scots are “racist” and “just don’t like the English and that’s why they want away from us, because they’re racist.”
They do say that a fair bit. Its probably just that mad double whammy of bullying and ignorance. No one wants to be a racist, so it shuts you up, if your’e trying to make the case for Scottish devo and indy. But if you’re English and you feel that Scottish democracy is somehow discrimination against you, on the grounds that you’re English, there are number of ways to say why but racism us not one of them.
Gary45% says:
26 January, 2017 at 10:37 pm
Who are these two??
Doesn’t matter who they are, they essentially said what the Supreme Court of England said.
Come Indyref 2 there won’t be another love-bombing campaign of ‘Scotland please stay’. There’ll be lots of folk like Offiah and Wright telling Scotland to p*ss off you worthless Jocks, and then there’ll be folk telling Scotland to be brave and go for it, to escape the mess and save themselves.
A new wall? Mexico and Scotland should link up and hem in the US and England. – were no paying !
http://www.thecanary.co/2017/01/26/everyone-distracted-trump-uk-government-put-nhs-contract-worth-515m-sale/
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/barclays-settles-on-dublin-for-post-brexit-eu-hub-1.2952306#.WIoeR4zQHxg.twitter
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/824675490065772545
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/824676701993140224
T May’s speech in US on previous thread at 9.43pm
I’m sure the woman says “or we could go and live there”
When they fling the racist card at me i like to reply no i just think you are poorly educated but i do not blame you for your lack of education since you have been lied to since birth by your government and its propaganda 😉
The woman is Jasmin Alibi Brown – (apologies for spelling of middle name) I noticed her comment too ..” or we might all want to go live there ..” the voice of sanity as we are told our contribution to the whole discussion has really only been symbolic!
HandandShrimp says:
26 January, 2017 at 11:50 pm
Joemcg
I think you are too pessimistic about the Borders. They voted solidly for Remain whereas just over the border-line they voted solidly for Leave. The difference was stark. In 2015 the SNP did well and Mundell hung on by the skin of his teeth and had thought he had lost. The Borders are not so far out of kilter.
….. I disagree. There is a core vote to build on but momentum for independence is all but invisible. We don’t get STV, we get English news, and an SNP presence which on a personal basis, is insipid and weak. I won’t say anymore, because the SNP folks here will cry and get annoyed with me.
The Borders is sleepy hollow, anaesthetised with calming BBC and ITV treacle and syrup and anything pro Indy will be treated like a blast from an ice cold fire hose.
But hey, wtf do I know. I only live here.
Let them build their border on Hadians wall, correct, it isn’t right, but it’s close enough, and it returns Berwick to Scotland.
Nana
Just reposting this link with the ref number added – good article!
http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/government_rushing_through_brexit_bill_is_a_contempt_of_parliament_1_4864929
May announces and says, in the US. ‘there will be no more illegal invasions’. Lyimg saying things the majority of the American people want to hear’. Her and her rotten lying Party/associates were in the recent past, ‘wooing and cheering’ to illegally bomb Syria. May is a manipulative criminal liar. A turncoat.
Along with the useless articles Labour/LibDem/Green politicians, who allowed this to happen. They are culpable. Hillary Benn. Mr Benn and Mr Bean who helped cause the worst migrant crisis since 11WW. Kiling and maiming millions of people, at home and abroad. Destroying the world economy. Now trying to take the UK out of the EU, damaging the world economy and causing sickness and hardship. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. Most of the Unionist criminals should be put in jail.
Beware hate speech says Auschwitz survivor
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news
It starts as a small stream,but then it has the potential to erupt- and when it does, it’s too late to stop it.
Though they are actually making the case for Independence, if Scotland is not listened to, we go our own way.
re Trump/ Mexico/Wall why doesn’t Mexico appeal to the UN for the return of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California all of which were stolen by military conquest.
It would be interesting to see how the members of The UN would vote on that but of course The US would use their veto.
Mathew Wright was supportive of Scottish Independence. Knew Thatcher took all the Oil revenues etc, and has stated that publicly. He has been totally against right wing politics and Westminster politicians. The corrupt MSM must be getting to him. Out of touch. Worked for Murdoch at the Sun. Makes excuses for corrupt MSM. Possibly tax evades. Self employed – tax avoiding company to channel the remuneration. The Media (Jedia) are all at it. Especially in the BBC funded with public money.
He vigorously supports EU membership or did until the recent NO EU Referendum result. He dislikes the Tories and the right wing ‘austerity’ Westminster agenda, with a vengeance. Still criticises the migrant argument surrounds the EU Ref. All those foreigners etc coming here’. etc. Mocks it. The wino shoplifter Richard, ‘Oh l forgot’, had to apologise for comments regarding Scotland. Wright might have to apologise if folk complain.
RE.. May’s speech.
Wanted to talk about History!!!
Rattled on about what a great thing the declaration of independence was….
Whit….Was everyone there oblivious to why they needed to declare Independence in the first place.
It takes a special kind of ignorance to by pass what their founding documents were designed to protect America against,
and then speak as though Westminster has also religated that system to a thing of the past.
They, that Woman’s Government are serving the same Monarchy that was killing Americans to keep their resources.
But the Russians who probably helped are the enemy.
Who is her speech writer..Neil Oliver???
Twilight Zone Right Enough..
The US and their associates controls the UN. (NATO) They proportionate higher fund it. Trump is stopping that. Claims to be stopping the illegal invasions but working with other countries (Russia) to end disputes. China holds the highest proportion (Gov bonds) of US debt. The highest in the world. $trns.
Trump needs Congress support to make things happen. Congress can thwart Trump’s wishes. So can the Courts. Checks and balances. Most of these ‘Orders’ might not happen. Trump is just signing a worthless wish list. To show he can ‘ get the job done’. Keep the promises. It is a big publicity stunt. Over exaggerated by the lying MSM.
DerekM,
Playing the racist card, is one way of coping with nasty surprises, and by that I mean, my pompous level set at 11, the UK tory BBC led media tell England even less about their Scotland region of greater England than they did and do about the EU.
The Guardian’s a great example of how UKOK press completely black out Scotland and Scots, unless they’re being horrible in England, and we all have our examples of BBC led English dramatic “arts” present Scots as monsters.
Look at how the tory BBC led UK media is almost entirely facing the new Heil Trump USA now. The EU, Scotland, are all blacked out of English main stream tory bleh. And that is a lot to black out. Ask anyone here, who knows the names of EU countries PM’s, other than the one beeb creeps really weally hate, Merkel.
So, If you have no idea whats going around you, except preconceptions drummed into you, issues like Scotland saying bye bye, are probably a very big confusing surprise.
Its easy to be trite about our savage tory media, but fascism is on the march today. Planet toryboy had tory defence minister Fallon waffling away on BBC r4 this morn and he said that the GOP is the tories “sister party.”
Be afraid.
Meg @8.27am
Thanks Meg. I see Smallaxe has not returned from his secret sojourn, what could he be up to I wonder.
*******************************
A couple more links
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10197/exclusive-snp-conference-shake-branches-set-new-agenda-real-debates
Admission comes ahead of key talks between Theresa May and Donald Trump
http://archive.is/v2EH0
One potentially interesting aspect of the learned judges’ decision is that, by relying on article 18 of the 1707 act to justify an authority to wave the rules, they may have exposed the treasury to significant reclamations in accordance with article 9 of the same act.
In fact, depending on definitions of Things (and after adjusting for changes in population), taxation raised in that part of the united Kingdom (formerly?) known as Scotland appears to have been overcharged/ paid somewhere in the order of 1600%.
In the alternative, ie taxes raised in Scotland are considered to have been fair and correct, taxation raised in that part of the united Kingdom (formerly?) known as England have, in the whole, been underpaid by a similar factor!
Either way settlement of the outstanding,if pursued, could be most interesting for that part of the UK known as Scotland
SNP bad, v v bad. Its The Graun, political obituary, by hard core end of era guess who? Watch the bile drip from Brian Wilson for gawds sake.
http://archive.is/aQVWG
Teresa May and the Tories are corrupt, dangerous liars. A threat to the world economy and world peace. She is swanning around on the £100Million jet that Cameron ordered. Cost £400Million to run. Teresa May is starving and killing vulnerable people. Not a good role model for women. She is a total hypocrite. She will get her just deserts . No Trade Treaty. It can take over ten years. A delusional ‘psycho bastard’.A wicked person. Just a PR publicity stunt. The majority of the American people don’t even know who she is and will not be impressed.
Tory Granny Queen and the neurotic siblings will be rolled out next. The illegal warmongers. Breaking the Constitution guide lines. Not to interfere in Government business and not paying tax. The biggest consumers in the world unconstitutionally warning about Climate change and conservation, ‘The killer Wales’. Publicly clearing land mines and corvorting with the Muslin son of the biggest illegal arms dealer in the world. Conspiracy theories abound.
As soon as Trump was elected the bombing raids stopped. Peace. Russia has legitimately been invited to try to bring peace to the region. On it’s borders.
You know Ireland and Gibraltar are in this mess as well. Their governments are just as livid with this but it’s not being reported and this is why.
Scotland is serving as a lynchpin for all of these. If we call a referendum then the others are sure to follow. Sinn Féin are definitely making the same noises as Scotland but the BBC and others aren’t wishing to make hate figures of their government because of the history there so it’s easy to make a hate figure of our First Minister.
I sometimes wish that the SNP stands up and gives them as good as they get for all of this mis-information BUT I look at broadcasts such as this and wonder if one time union lovers are seeing it the same way we are and think “No, there’s putting the noose round our own neck!”
Couple this with the 8 lines long white paper to take us out the EU then I and many like me see how actually in control the Scottish Government are in this situation.
They describe Nicola Sturgeon as angry in this piece, They are wide of the mark, she’s being informative and giving every chance, every opportunity for the UK government to respond and when there’s no other options, no place to go, THEN you, me and everyone else will see what true leadership is.
Clock’s ticking Mrs May.
@Gerry says: 26 January, 2017 at 9:03 pm:
“Feel the love eh… It’s almost as if he doesn’t care.”
Oh! He cares all right, Gerry. He cares for England. Not mark you for the United Kingdom but for England. He also cares for democracy, but only for democracy for Englanders and he is desperate for the white Englanders to accept him as an, equally English, Anglo Saxon Englander.
He also doesn’t care about the Welsh or the North Irish either but at least he thinks they are also part of England. It is understandable, though, for the sad truth is that in England proper they are riddled with a class system, that, for the majority of them, is second nature and not really a consciously thought out thing.
If either his money or his ‘Celeb status vanishes overnight, as it often does, he will not find himself acceptable in the society he thinks he belongs to.
As for Wright he thinks England stops at Hadrian’s wall and real that London Englanders don’t live north of the Watford Gap unless they own a Country Estate to act as lord of the Manor over the local yokels.
Teresa May is a warmongering liar responsible for maining and killing millions. Destroying the world economy. What a two faced dangerous liar. Delusional tax evading hypocrite. What a PR stunt. She should be put in jail, along with the rest of them.
There’s always comedy gold from the wright stuff when it has all those English sports stars pontificating on their extensive expert knowledge of Scottish politics.
The truth is they know little of Scottish politics, except what they read in the papers and watch on TV.
Fallon on R4 this morning says the US is UKs biggest export market.
Well, by individual country that is true, but the US is only 14.5% of UK exports, whereas the EU takes 44% of UK exports.
So, as they do, not technically lying, but manipulating the truth in order to mislead.
Yea Heed they are pumping the English full of shit though its not all rosy in the garden lets see them sell marmite Trump to the whole of England another division?
Should we start calling them the USUK?
HMRC is giving privileged deals to the wealthiest tax evaders. Calls not recorded. People losing faith in the tax system.
Not collecting £Billions in tax. @ UK Gov tax committee. Report @ Guardian.
Right wings French candidate for Presidential election. Caught defrauding public money. $500,000+?
Ken500
Sometimes you are quite coherent but I’m a bit worried about you today.
Have you had your morning pills?
Fallon (Hammond) atre dangerous, tax evading, liars. Supporting a quint, dangerous, obsolete Trident wasting £Billions. Falling (Hammond) are responsible for the death and maining of millions of innocent people at home and abroad. Defrauding £Billions, Starving people. Deliberately manipulating figures. Can’t count or read a balance sheet. Fallon should be put in jail. An utter lying criminal. Destroying the world economy.
@ Pete
Another dangerous, malicious liar.
Question Time.
Once again mantra repeated Scotland voted to stay in the uk. And Angus Robertson lets it slide,its about time the SNP rebutted this ie Scotland’s People were Lied to VOW/ Smith Commission/ Most Powerfull Devolved parliament in the world / vote no & stay in the EU/ Project Fear ect ect.
Does it take a muppet like me to point this out to our Elected Leadership.
Some folk in the Borders, did not completely understand the Hokyrood voting system. They gave their vote away SNP/Labour, They totally support the SNP and Independence, They have been advised, ‘Why did you do that’. The Birders gave been traditionally conservative with a small ‘c’. Countryside Alliance etc. Farming hardship but in the loop for Edinburgh. They work and play there. The new rail link. Times are a changing. ‘conservative’, but many support Independence. It can be won the next time.
@Ken500 says:
================
I always like to double check stuff. Came across this which you’ll no doubt be aware of:
https://caltonjock.com/2015/11/28/graeme-pearson-labour-party-spokesman-for-justice-visionary-opportunist-confidence-trickster-or-just-a-failure-read-on-and-decide-for-yourself/comment-page-1/
@ gus1940
Abby Martin did a great report on this worth a watch its rather shocking so be warned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e94K30251MI&t=77s
This article just clarifies what we all already know. I spent most of my working life with UK national businesses hence I travelled down south a lot. The level of ignorance about the politics and geography of the UK was always amazing to me but the knowledge of Scotland was almost nil. Having said that many English people like Scotland and do know what country they live in.
For sanity I usually ignored daft comments about us but when I did correct an error of understanding many, not most, had the opinion that “we are bigger so what does it matter”.
It is about education, unfortunately the education system south teaches English not UK history and the ‘yoon’ press gives no one a chance to have facts.
That ignorance applies to many Scots also. I see the latter as I keep trying to get some No voters to vote YES. Mind you I have managed to convert three to our cause but it is not easy.
@ E-mail an elected leader. Not an Independence supporting web site.
Managed to covert 50++ relatives + friends and even more acquaintances to our cause. Easily. There will be more. Keep going. Keep on keeping on.
Helpmaboab says:
26 January, 2017 at 9:06 pm
Eddie the Eagle put himself through law school to learn how to deal with legal issues he was having so, probably not the worst shout!
OMG Brian Wilson back as Hootsman columnist and on about referendums rather than sticking to his day job.
http://archive.is/bTfpw
DerekM
Just tell they’re not a race, Scottish democracy is not racism, UK is a union, a treaty signed by the nation states of Scotland and England, and this is racism, real actual racists in action,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04qrslv
I’m genuinely shocked. I had no idea the Wright Stuff was still on TV.
ronnie anderson says:
Question Time.
Once again mantra repeated Scotland voted to stay in the uk
which, in 2014, they did, and the result, the democratic majority, has been respected, we are still in the uk.
but in 2016, Scotland voted for a party promising indyref2 if this situation arose, a democratic majority,47%, the largest mandate of any government in europe,
this democratic decision by scotland will also be respected.
I’m genuinely shocked. I had no idea that channel 5 was still on TV.
@yesindyref2 says: 26 January, 2017 at 9:17 pm:
Oh, and apparently Scotland joined the UK 309 years ago.
Matter of strict truth is that Scotland never joined the UK at any time. This myth is what has led us to the present imminent parting of the ways.
Fact is there was no United Kingdom for Scotland to join until after the two Kingdoms of Scotland and England united as equally sovereign partner kingdoms.
The previous Kingdom of England was a three country Kingdom that England formed under the laws of Divine Right of Kings, and they took it by force of arms, in the case of Wales, and by Papal decree plus force of arms for Ireland. Truth id that they never took Scotland but the assume they had. This is proven by the fact that there was no United Kingdom between 1603 and 1707 and that it required The Treaty of Union to form a United Kingdom. The Battle of Culloden almost 40 years after the Treaty also proves that Scotland did not willingly become a partner in the Union.
If I have not got the message across to Wingers by now I never will manage it. British History, from ever it has been recorded is provable to be a pack of distortions and downright lies.
The Roman leaders in ancient pre-Christian times reported back to Rome and promoted their own agendas to further their own political careers back in Rome. These reports are still in existence and each Roman person had different bias.
British History is an almost total pack of lies. Every bit of it is biased towards what was then Londinium, and it still is today.
ronnie anderson 9.57
Remember Ronnie that QT is recorded earlier and edited. My immediate impression of that part of the programme was that discussion was abruptly ended with no right of reply from Angus Robertson and a suspiciously looking mid shot cut away of Angus Robertson very similar to the BBC editing of Alex Salmond’s false response cutaway to John Swinney in the Scottish parliament. It would be interesting to know from Angus Robertson if he actually responded but the BBC cut it out!
@Betty Boop says: 26 January, 2017 at 9:20 pm:
“Is that a zip on top of Offiah’s head?”
Nah! That is his head, the bit below it is his Adam’s Apple.
https://michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com/2017/01/26/scottish-independence-podcast-143-richard-walker-on-the-scottish-media-independence/
Friend in America emails to tell me her friends,family and work colleagues say the special relationship between Trump & Strumpet [her words] boils down to “Dumb & dumber on the road to hell”
Trump’s America and May’s Britain can’t do much for each other
http://archive.is/QWIMm
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/01/mays-speech-to-trump-called-desperate-and-slavish-by-american-journalists/
White House leaks cast the President as a clueless child
http://archive.is/PBkHj
@Conan the Librarian says: 26 January, 2017 at 9:24 pm:
” … A shame, I quite like the man; he has a Panther motorcycle.”
Now, Conan, I read that as, ‘I quite like the Panther Motorcycle that arrogant British Nationalist has as its owner’
Am I wrong?
schrodingers cat says:
Indeed
2014 voted to stay in UK and EU
2016 voted by a majority for parties offering IndyRef2 if needed
2016 voted overwhelmingly to stay in EU
The situation seems perfectly clear, what are Yoons sneering and/or moaning about?
Those are democratic mandates the strength of which May and her Tory chums only dream about.
The underlying issue, of course, is Yoons don’t think they could win an IndyRef2 so they believe their only hope is to try to prevent one.
Fuck. Wright. Off.
So Wright thinks out loud … AGAIN! *YAWN*
WRIGHT: Or repair the one we’ve already got. [smirks]
I guess he like a load of other ignorant twats did not do geography/history at school then. The last time I checked, the wall he wants re-built, is in ENGLAND. In fact it is so far into England that once built BOTH sides of the wall would still be in ENGLAND. 🙂
Oops. I’ve just realised. With his plan to re-build the wall he is “donating” Cumbria and Northumberland to Scotland. 😀
@ronnie anderson 0957
The feebleness of the SNP leadership has been noticeable for some time. It’s difficult to see what can be done about it as long as their performance is acceptable to the membership.
The dream will never die but the SNP might if we lose IR2.
Note: irate responses from abusive, self-appointed, self-important missionaries or their acolytes from The People’s Friend Tendency will be ignored.
LOL!! that just made my morning.
Honestly, if all comes to pass, I wonder how these idiots will view the car wreck of what is left of the ‘rump’ UK?
They have no idea of how politics, or even how Scotland works? They haven’t got a bloody clue.
The Perfect Storm continues to grow on the UK horizon…
Conan @ 09.42:
“A shame, I quite like the man; he has a Panther motorcycle.”
Isn’t it annoying when people you would otherwise dismiss turn out to have redeeming features? A Panther is a an obscure but enlightened choice of bike.
http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/what_happened_to_frexit_grexit_nexit_and_irexit_1_4855962
A nice wee read to go with your 11ses.
The New European has actually had some excellent articles lately.
@Bilptoe says: 26 January, 2017 at 9:30 pm:
… A bunnle o laffs fae them trolling arseholes”
I wouldn’t know, Bilptoe. I gave up watching TV some years ago.
I’ve been wondering about your nom de plume for some time now. I just couldn’t put my finger on what it reminded me of. It came to me just now – is not that a USA/Canada vehicle number plate designation, or is my memory playing tricks on me?
Friend in America emails to tell me her friends,family and work colleagues say the special relationship between Trump & Strumpet [her words] boils down to “Dumb & dumber on the road to hell”
Thatcher and Reagan had one but at the same time Thatcher crew were hard at work getting into the EU. This is a whole new world of tory whackadoodle. Thatcher’s tories saw the EU as a way out and up for their UK and its worked. People have such short memories of how the UK begged to get EU membership, and ofcourse the economics why.
Special relationships can change history as we know. UK was losing the Falklands war. Exocet missiles were steadily sinking RN shipping, launched from Argentinian fast jets. Reagan gave Thatcher the Sidewinder air to air missile and that’s what defeated Argentina. UK was on the brink of another devastating defeated post imperial adventure, probably more destructive than Suez. You can bet Thatcher was targeting Polaris nukes on Argentine targets, but wondering what the US would say and do.
Christ only knows what harm Heil Trump and Mayhem will cause, all for our own good ofcourse.
@ The BuckanLoony The same statement hasn’t been rebutted in the HoC ( not edited ) nearly every week & again at PMQs on Wed by Teresa May he should use his 2nd question to rebut the falsehood, Its festered overlong .
The power of the Internet.
Some of the places who voted predominately NO in the IndyRef1 have poor internet connections. Borders and the Isles etc. Harder to access facts. A higher percentage of elderly people (pro rata – per proportion), do not access the Internet. Speak, write or telephone them etc. Yer acquaintances.
@winifred mccartney says: 26 January, 2017 at 9:40 pm:
“The ignorance of some people is more than astounding – how on earth are they allowed to spout such utter nonsense and get paid for it.”
No! No! Winifred, you have put the proverbial cairt afore the cuddy.
They get paid, because they spout such utter nonsense.
This is, after all, the Westminster propaganda wing we are talking about.
DeGalle. Non, non, non.
The US did not support the Falklands war. Argentina has historical reasons get to govance of the Falklands. Equal rights to the British case. They want the UN to adjudicate, Thatcher set in the A Forces. Many innocent got killed. It costs £Billions of support. The US adminstration had a credible solution. The US keep away. The Oil myth is a myth. Inconclusive.
The Tory/Unionists are appalling. They could not make a bigger mess of the world economy. They do it every time.
@ JLT
{The Perfect Storm continues to grow on the UK horizon…} You telt me the other day you were busy with your studies, noo your dain weather reports lol , ur you dain ah Neil Morrison lol.
Scottish history is a gruelling exercise , jist ask Robert Peffers lol.
Note: irate responses from abusive, self-appointed, self-important missionaries or their acolytes from The People’s Friend Tendency will be ignored.’
Not prepared for any challenges to your opinion so ‘insert’ disclaimer: ‘me and ma echo chamber bar any kind of reasoned argument about the veracity of ma proclamations, so shut up any one who has a differing view…and sleekitly impugn others’ who may disagree with your view if they do, as: ‘abusive, self-appointed, self-important missionaries or their acolytes’.
Note: Ron MacLean, by all means ‘opine’ away and by all means ignore any input from those who do not agree with it. But there is absolutely no need to be an arrogant insulting prick intae the bargain now…is there?
Have a nice day Ron 😉
ronnie anderson at 9.57 and Ron Maclean at 11.14
The people of Scotland did vote to stay in the UK. What exactly is your point?
The leadership of the SNP has been extremely strong and steadfast in the face of continuous unprecedented and totally unscrupulous and dishonest assault by all the UK establishment and the media it owns for several years.
It is held in huge regard. No political organisation in Scotland has ever approached its levels of popularity.The clue is in the seats it holds in both our parliaments and its massive membership.
Its opposition is reduced to hilarious levels of nonsense like the post of Ron Maclean above.
@ Ron MacLean 11.14
I wouldn’t describe the SNP Leadership as feeble far from it, they are doing a good job within the House of Horrors but ( Scotland voted to stay in the Uk ) & more especially for the English audience who weren’t as informed as us, those making those statements should be jumped on at every turn.
The channel 5 thingy just adds to the overwhelming evidence that arrognace and ignorance towards Scotland is widespread. All the more shock for these ignorant souls when IndyRef2 is declared. All the more extreme their response? Who cares. This so-called united kingdom continues to disintegrate.
” OFFIAH: My first story is from the Telegraph ”
Says it all, really.
@ Dave McEwan Hill
Dave my point is Scotland did vote to stay in the UK against a backdrop of Lies by UK Gov & they’re BT / BBC/ Corporate media ect campaign & should be exposed at every turn, before Council Elections & Indy ref 2, we know we will be subjected to the same Lies & worse come Indy Ref 2.
Time to remind ourselves that for whatever reason we lost the last referendum on independence. The SNP are governing a country which chose to remain as part of the UK. That is fact.
Now we have to convince over 300,000 people who voted No that the choice was the wrong one. Some will automatically come on board in light of recent event reports Brexit, and some will choose to leave in support of Brexit.
All the while, the SNP are trying not to alienate those we need to change their minds.
It is a very thin line indeed ,and I do not believe that an increase in aggressive tone will help us get over that line.
Nicola is doing the only thing she can in those circumstances .She is trying to be inclusive to ALL.in spite of almost 100% media bias against her and her party
We must temper our resolve and do the groundwork for her.
ronnie anderson says:
They will do their damnest to derail the Indy express. They’ve been at it for at least a year already.
Big deficit, people don’t want IR2, iScotland will lose UK ‘single market’ … and whatever is next.
However, they are definitely not going to have it so easy in IR2 as they had it in IR1.
– UK was the safest place, they said. Not now.
– NO meant EU, they said. nope
– iScotland can’t afford it, as the UK goes down the tubes.
– NO meant equal partners. Nope.
– New powers. Never happened. They can’t use that again.
– iScotland won’t get in the EU. The EU will debunk that.
– Must use Euro. EU will debunk this, and ….
– Pensions and currency, there will be a plan.
– Permanent Holyrood. They lied.
… their IR1 fearmongering and promises are mostly on shoggly pegs now. Their scope for campaigning is dramatically reduced.
They’ll still try, and they will be more vicious and underhand than ever. The eyes of the EU and wider world will be on them it ways it wasn’t for IR1.
The best way is to foresee their attacks and pre-empt them. Not get ‘caught’ without good arguments and information with pensions, currency, EU etc again.
Time to remind ourselves that for whatever reason we lost the last referendum on independence. The SNP are governing a country which chose to remain as part of the UK. That is fact
Aye Bob on the day the choice was between independence and ‘let’s call it devo max, federalism we luv u’ because they broke the law and rode a coach and horses through purdah.
We were sold a very sick pup and folk are realising it fast.. maybe not fast enough for some but we’ll get there..
It seems that many of the English public have been conditioned to think so little of us that they will accept any treatment meted out to Scotland.
Sorry for O/T here.
I wonder how the Great Orange one will take to this tweet from Mayhem’s branch office manager then. ‘)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3IovlLWAAUl_s2.jpg
The next time Impedance is brought up, ask yourself who brought it up.
http://www.facebook.com/events/350549415331542/350576391995511/?notif_t=like¬if_id=1482498740753217 Please Share.
Things coming along nicely.
um… page not found ronnie
And for those who like a laugh with their politics
http://archive.is/NZ3oo
@ schrodingers cat Works for me, its on all yes sites on F/Book
The Supreme Court ruling doesn’t just kill devolution stone dead:
http://moflomojo.blogspot.com/2017/01/stone-dead-devo.html
It also kills the UK constitution stone dead too:
http://moflomojo.blogspot.com/2017/01/point-of-order.html
@mr thms says: 26 January, 2017 at 9:42 pm:
” … I was looking for news about North Sea oil production when I came across this article.
http://www.oilandgasinsight.com/industry-trend-analysis-brexit-uk-north-sea-oil-production-scenarios-sept-2016
For these, claiming to be, financial experts, they are rather badly informed.
I’ll give them credit as experts on the oil & gas sectors as I am not so, thus cannot judge them.
However, their knowledge of the UK. and in particular Scotland’s post independence financial standing, indicates abysmal analytical thinking in their part. You needs not be a financial wizard to figure it out as it really is not complicated.
The Scottish parliament’s total present income is the Westminster decided Block Grant plus the SG’s new and very limited, tax raising powers. Further – not a single penny of the revenues raised from the oil & gas sectors comes Scotland’s way.
Yet, post independence, these, “Experts”, decide that the revenues from oil & gas will have to be increased by an independent Scotland’s treasury in order to maintain Scottish Government needs.
However, as Scotland previously got nothing whatsoever of the, (claimed as, “Extra-region-territory oil & gas sector revenues), by Westminster, there would actually be a massive increase in the Scottish government’s revenue income from oil & gas alone. First of all Scots pay UK tax and thus pay for the Block Grant themselves. It is not, as so often assumed by numpties, “English Tax Payers money”, it is UK raised revenue from among the rest, Scotland.
Obviously these, “Experts” have not made themselves aware of the actual facts and that much of what Westminster accounts as English Exports and revenue are factually things produced in Scotland but which then leave the UK via England and are wrongly accounted as English exports.
Such as most of the Scotch Whisky, the 70% of Scottish produce UK Gin production, Scottish Farmed Salmon, UK exported fish, mainly landed in Scotland, Scottish Soft Fruit and much other Scottish manufactured goods that leave the United Kingdom via English ports and airports.
Even much air freight from Scotland goes via English air ports like the Midland’s Airport or stops off at Heathrow and goes through the UK’s Books as being exported from Scotland.
Then there are those other, “Nice little earners”, for the UK treasury. Such as the Electricity Grid Connection Charges that they charge more for the further the generators are from London yet they actually also subsidise those generators closer to London.
Like the Scottish Crown Estates profits from fees the oil & gas producers pay to the UK Crown Estates but in future will come back to Scotland.
Even without all the above these, “Experts”, have not done their homework or they would have known the Scottish per-capita GDP is almost consistently higher that that quoted for either the UK as a whole, (I thus assume it includes Scotland), or quoted for any of the other UK countries including England.
Their analysis is very obviously totally, afu watery, mince.
I’m no financial expert but even I can see that an independent Scottish Government would be extremely better financially provided for and have a damned site more motives to encourage the oil & gas sectors than has the presently very much strapped for cash United Kingdom.
Sadly many self professed experts are so restricted to their chosen speciality that they become quite incapably of standing back and seeing the bigger picture.
This is the old proverb of, “Not seeing the wood for the trees”.
Often wrongly interpreted, in this context, as the raw processed timber, rather than the whole group of trees that comprise, “The Woods”.
If we ever have a second Ref., then no Incomers should be allowed to vote in it only the native people of Scotland should be allowed to vote on the future of THEIR country what fair minded person could object to that ? Those people who mov.ed to Scotland did so for their own benefit any benefit to Scotland of their being here is just a by product let the Scots the true Scots decide their own future no one else I believe other countries do this so it can be done also Cameron used it in the E.U. Referendum also no postal voting it is wide open to fraud as has been proved elsewhere if we can do these two things I think we will win our freedom I meant to say earlier only those who were born and live in Scotland should be able to vote
I’m having problems just like Schrodinger Ronnie.
Ho Hum! 😀
A facebooking I will go … at some point today 😀
Mebbes the SNP should bin Dimbleby & QT, no great loss!
The latest from the unionists is the whole French election and actually hoping that a far right leader in Le Penn wins!
If she wins then it’s going to be “Frexit” then that’s the end of the EU.
They will cling to anything to keep up the sham
Love Bomb Explodes…
http://imgur.com/a/NeWWf
https://www.rt.com/uk/375283-theresa-may-porn-star/
This made me laugh though!
@Blair Patterson, so someone born to Scottish parents who has lived in Scotland for 90% of their life but was born somewhere else has no right to a vote?
What about a young person who moved from NI to go to uni and stayed here to build a life?
Better all dig out our birth certificates.
Scotland’s place in the Union…
http://imgur.com/a/r8TrS
@ Blair Paterson
I consider myself a fair-minded person (you might disagree) and I strongly object to what you posted (not for the first time) at 1.02.
Someone I know, who will be 90 this year, voted Yes in 2014, by post. It was fortunate she did that, because she fell and broke her leg and spent the actual referendum day in hospital. I do realize she could have got a proxy, if she had thought about it, but having voted already let her concentrate on recovering.
She has spent 89.5 of those 90 years living in Scotland. Her parents were born and raised in Scotland, and lived there for all their lives apart from 1 year, during which she was born, in England.
You would deny her a vote (or are you planning on a multi-page questionnaire to distinguish people like her from those who are “incomers by choice” at a later stage in their lives?) and yet give one to all the knuckle-draggers, who through their parents’ choice/default option were born in the right place.
It is not acceptable to try to define a franchise in order to get the result you want – the other side can play at that game too. The way forward is to convince enough people to win without such shenanigans.
@ Soutron
Snap (if my first comment appears)!
Blair has been grinding this axe for some time; he’s onto a loser, as far as I can see.
Blair,I like to think I’m a fair minded person & I certainly object to that.
You have just taken away the vote of myself & 3 family members who are all yes to independence.
I’ve lived,worked,paid taxes for 26 years in Scotland.My daughter was 5 months when she moved here.You really wish to taken away her vote as shes not Scottish enough for you?
I won’t say any more as I’m likely to loose my temper & type something you really wouldn’t like.
Not a fan of Steve Bell at the Guardian…but…he does ‘capture’ the ‘special relationship’ succinctly:
http://archive.is/Z6czY
Child poverty, and its relationship to the Conservative and Unionist party.
There is no such thing as a “self-made man”. We are made up of thousands of others. Everyone who has ever done a kind deed for us, or spoken one word of encouragement to us, has entered into the makeup of our character and of our thoughts, as well as our success.’
https://brightside.me/article/what-you-should-think-about-before-you-judge-others-10155/
@Peter Clive,
That is a superb find Peter. The writer is basically saying the Supreme Court hedged their bets by saying that sovereignty was as” expressed in Parliament” which was a bit of a fudge.
Because Scottish MP ”s sit in Parliament ,they are seen as representing the sovereign will of the people of Scotland in that place ,regardless of whether they are outnumbered in every vote. This has completely avoided the need to rule on the issue at all whether each individual in Scotland has that gift.
In other words ,even if every Scotland is indeed sovereign, then it can only be shown and utilised through their democratically elected representative.
Maybe time to withdraw from Westminster as elected representatives of the people?
A hornets nest would ensue.
Ken500,
What the fuck are you on.
It’s Argentina who seem most reluctant to have the UN arbitrate. Especially after the referendum held that confirmed that a near majority of those in the Falklands wish to remain affiliated with the UK.
Do you seriously want to side with people who will ride roughshod over the right to self determination. Because if you do then kiss any right to complain should Holyrood be pushed to an “advisory” referendum the results of which Westminster rule aren’t “legal”.
Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is yet another enemy.
NI doesn’t even come into it given the current peace is based on the right to self determination of the people in NI after decades of conflict.
Macca73 says:
27 January, 2017 at 1:13 pm
https://www.rt.com/uk/375283-theresa-may-porn-star/
This made me laugh though!
I did wonder why Trump seemed awfully keen to meet her. 😉
still trying to find a facebook page called All yes sites
nae luck 🙁
Our beloved commonwealth.
http://www.aucklandcitymission.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Auckland-City-Mission-Family100-Speaking-for-Ourselves.pdf
Totally agree Crazycat, we win this by convincing enough people who live here (through choice or otherwise) that independence will improve their lives…or at least provide the possibility of improvement.
Sure, we don’t want any fraudulent ballots cast or postal votes from 2nd home owners who live outwith Scotland, but the franchise should be as wide as possible.
Luckily for us all, Blair’s heavy promotion of a blood and soil nationalism is not what Scotland’ self-determination movement centres on. You’re constant need to push this line on Wings will be continuously and vigorously rejected for the tosh that it is.
We will not be setting up ‘registers’ for those ‘not born’ in Scotland as a means of ensuring ‘purity’ of Scottish descent as the marker for deciding who can vote in our referendums.
‘Cameron used it in the E.U. referendum’ and that’s your ‘measure’ of it’s efficacy?
That’ll be why hate crime is up since the EU ref, in England then Blair eh?
Go educate yersel’ man and stop talking pish, what you advocate will Never take place in our Kingdom.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/804523006353841/
K1 says:1:56
Spot on.
Let me know if that link works at 1.47.
Luigi says:
27 January, 2017 at 1:43 pm
I did wonder why Trump seemed awfully keen to meet her. ?
“special relationship” indeed! lol
Re;Blair@1.02
I can see why you are angry. I am from NE england, lived here in Scotland 28+ years. I would be unhappy indeed to not be able to vote, but you know if Scotland could regain independence without it, that would be great. Most of the people I know from Scotland voted no, most of those, if not all, voted yes.
I think we can certainly expect some restrictions, like you have to actually live in Scotland for 6+ months of the year, and no second home owners, holiday home owners. Perhaps only if you have a lived in Scotland for at least 3 years. It should be doable and might keep some of the english tourist voters away. (I know sounds awful).
The postal vote last time was really suspect imo, and no taking those votes for our unionists neighbours to count! What was all that about, hmm.
Anyway, there is lots to consider, and far as I could see the ScotGov consultation on the second independence referendum had some questions about this and voting for some is being tweaked, but don’t quote me on that!
think so ronnie is this with reference to the
BBC bias peaceful protest
BBC Pacific Quay
26 March at 14:00–16:00
Meant most of those I knew from out with Scotland, voted yes last time.
Saw this on Twitter …
https://brightside.me/article/what-you-should-think-about-before-you-judge-others-10155/
Yup, that’s the way things are now.
I remember a different world. 50 years ago in Ayrshire. Mines had closed but there were plenty of factory jobs. Few had cars or phones. Everyone seemed to have a job and a rented TV. Some left at 15 straight into jobs, trade apprenticeships in many cases. Another world.
But here’s what I see as the big difference. Those, like me, who we doing well in education got every chance we needed. Dedicated teachers to whom I owe a lot. Full grant to live on at Uni. So although my parents had no savings, lived week to week, and we stayed in a tied house, anything was possible in Scotland’s then.
Among ordinary people there wasn’t a feeling of hopelessness where it wasn’t worth trying in education. If you could, you did. If you couldn’t, you still had a guaranteed role in the workforce.
Somethings like healthcare are better now. It wasn’t a golden age. However, IMO we need to build a Scotland where once again the opportunities are open to everyone. And everyone realises they can make it if they try. Who your parents are should have no bearing on what you make of yourself.
‘E.M. Foster famously blamed the “undeveloped heart” of England’s public-school-boy imperialists for their missteps in “a world of whose richness and subtlety they have no conception”‘.
I read that in this week’s TLS and thought of the statements made by the obtuse prats shown in this clip.
The quote comes from ‘Old Glory’, a marvellous demolition of neo-liberalism and ‘the American century’ by Panjak Mishra.
I used to get really angry at videos like that, but eventually realised that you can’t expect folk in England to think anything else when all they have been told their entire lives is that Scots are whinging layabouts living off English largesse. A lot of Scots still believe that so we can’t expect any better from our neighbours.
What gets me angry now is no voting Scottish folk who agree with you when you say how terrible Brexit will be, agree how terrible the upsurge in xenophobia is, agree how awful it is that we have May, Johnson, Fox and Davis in charge and wholeheartedly agree when you voice despair at Trump and at May’s unseemly haste to meet him but when you say Independence is our chance to not be part of this to do things differently, to stand up for what we believe in, they look at you and say that they are scared of the unknown. FFS how low an opinion do they have of themselves, their fellow countrymen and women and Scotland as a whole that would make them think it could be anywhere near as bad as it is being part of the UK.
Ah but we export so much to England and that will all stop if we are Independent- what you mean that they would rather sit with their lights out than continue to buy electricity generated here- in spite of their best attempts to make it financially unviable by ludicrously exorbitant connection charges. They can buy it elsewhere folk say- what like France who they speak of in the same terms as they do of us.
The same way as they wouldn’t want our water either- perhaps they will make it rain more in England to compensate, then there is our mining and quarrying- ain’t geography a real pain and I’m not even including oil here- are they going to bore sideways from England to get at our mineral resources.
I’m no economist or business person but when bald figures of exports are bandied about we need to look at the breakdown of what exactly it is we’re exporting and whether it is nice to have items which can be taken or left- in which case a boycott of Scottish products could happen if they are spiteful enough or whether it is things which are essential for a society to function- like electricity, water, gas etc.
As for our exports to the EU- when we have a Foreign Office which charges us for the use of UK embassies to promote Scottish goods and companies is it any wonder the figure is only £12bn. Does that not have echoes from prior to the union when they tried and succeeded in disrupting Scottish trade?
Bring it on, how much crap are you lot going to take, I am taking no more.
Fiona laing 2.15pm. Great post.
Blair, your promotion of ‘blood and soil’ nationalism is playing right into the hands of those who would hammer our movement for being just that.
And – are you going to allow expat ‘native’ Scots to vote? because in my experience the vast majority of them will vote NO.
Frankly I would not want to live in a Scotland where there was a distinction between ‘new’ Scots and ‘real’ Scots. Come this September I will have lived in Scotland continuously for half a century, and have voted SNP in every election except one. Deny me a vote and I will be looking at heading off, as this country will have become no better than our unfortunate neighbours to the South.
This little exchange is actually revealing of another way in which the BBC has failed. It doesn’t only fail to represent us properly to ourselves, as we all very well know now, it also competely fails to represent us properly to our southern neighbours. Their understanding of what we’re actually about is woefully ignorant.
If they were just for a minute to consider swapping “us” and “them” around, their eyes would surely be opened. Like when at the last UKGE there was this whipped-up (faux?) outrage that the Scots should dare (in the very unlikely prospect of a Labour+SNP coalition) “to rule over England”.
It’s good that little revelations like the one above are in the public domain. They need to be brought far more to the attention of the remaining PSBs.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that these casual and unchallenged English assumptions of entitlement and ownership boil down to a form of latent colonialism. The “equal partners” story was just a con, but thankfully it’s now just another of those BT lies that’s visibly past its sell-by date.
Come indyref2, there surely won’t be another “luvvie love-in”.
ScotsRenewables says:
Agree, all those who live and work here should vote.
In IR1 many EU citizens voted NO. I think in IR2 every ‘new’ Scot from the EU will be a solid YES!
For IR2 we need to work on those from elsewhere in the UK living here. The message should be that iScotland will be a better place to live!
As for expat Scots, they can return home after Indy dust has settled to live and work in our booming economy and strong new social democracy.
How about this one?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38755219
Residents of the Devon village of Princetown have objected to the design of a new whisky distillery.
The architect said it followed a traditional design but the locals’ objection is ‘it is too Scottish looking’ !!!
Racism is growing in the south!
When the rUK leaves the EU what are all the football teams going to do for players?
Folks I can assure you that Blair Paterson will not be responsible for the policy of who gets to vote in any future referendum.
Can you please stop conflating Blair’s opinion with the rest of the country of Scotland.
Time and again it is re-iterated that the SNP works for everyone who lives and works in Scotland regardless of where you were born so stop giving credence to Blair’s pish..
thanks
@galamcennalath Roughly 180,000 EU nationals living in Scotland at present. 83% are of voting age. So that should be about 150k Yes votes in the bag! 😉
http://www.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefingsAndFactsheets/S5/SB_16-86_EU_nationals_living_in_Scotland.pdf
Scots Renewables at 2.22pm- Absolutely you should be allowed to vote, indeed I think that those “new” Scots who support Independence will be vital to the campaign. The reason-if I as a Scot born and bred I can’t persuade a fellow Scots of the benefits of independence then perhaps the only folk who will be able to do so will be those who have seen from afar just what is being done in our name and just how successful we can be. Perhaps more fundamentally though you are in the best place to confirm that the rest of the world does not see us as some basketcase to be ostracised but actually that they will welcome us to the world stage.
The opportunity to vote in Indy ref l was the ‘kick up the backside’ that I needed to get back to Scotland after 37 years working down south.
At the time I left there was virtually no talk of the possibility of leaving the EU. The next political event would be the GE in 2015 and Labour was in with a chance of winning. England was more tolerant and the NHS was ‘coping’.
England, two years on with a Conservative gov. and now post-Brexit, bears no resemblance to the country I lived in. The NHS is collapsing, the transport system is struggling and the open xenophobia is shocking. I think it must be very difficult being Scottish and working there since the antagonism is growing.
There must be quite a few ‘ex-pat’ Scots and EU citizens who are seriously considering moving north to a more sane world when IR2 is announced .
GHastly example of the all new and exciting Donaldo Mac BBC Scotland generation. Why would she have bothered to lie about winning back lost trust in The National, is my teamGB mystery of the day. Suppose if its what you do for a living, everything is lies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzASPvSK40Y
Will the Irish Republic players in the Ireland rugby team need visas to go to UK to play in the 6 Nations?
@ schodringers cat 1.59 Yes thats the link to the new BBC Bias Protest 26th March 2pm to 4pm
Oh how I cringe when I see average sports people like Offiah, give an embarrassing comment on Scotland’s position within the union.
Though on this occasion, it pains me to say that Offaih’s statement is truthful in parts.
ronnie anderson says
Yes thats the link to the new BBC Bias Protest 26th March 2pm to 4pm
I think that this new BBC Bias Protest on the 26th March, 2pm to 4pm, at PQ will be the best yet
Free the Scottish Six !!!
The link from Nana earlier this morning about Catalan talks with the EU was very interesting I think.
“BREAKING: A senator reveals that the Catalan government has reached agreements with 11 EU countries to recognize Catalonia’s independence”
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/824675490065772545
It’s surely obvious that the SG must have been and likely still is exploring the opinions of other EU country leaders and seeking their support. I would hope that after a date for a second Independence Referendum is announced that we could expect a similar statement from the SG on EU countries support.
Just as likely though could be a statement that we have unanimous support from the four EFTA EEA countries to become a member of that organisation. A lot of diplomacy has been spent in recent months with Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland and visits by high profile SNP elected members.
One big benefit of the EFTA approach would be that it leaves EFTA (including Scotland) free to conduct it’s own trade deals with non EU countries, we could therefore have a tariff free trade agreement with rUK if that’s what both EFTA and the rUK wanted and I’m sure this would be in their own interests to have such a thing.
http://www.efta.int/free-trade/free-trade-agreements
@ Brian Powell Aw naw i’ll be the end of Team GB wie Scots in it ma hearts pumping pish at the thought, whats not to like lol.
O/T
Scientists have just moved the Doomsday Clock from 3mins to 2.5mins to midnight. Can we have Indy before midnight please?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-38760792
Soutron says:
Just a guess, but if 100k of them voted last time at 75:25 for NO, but 120k vote next time almost all YES …. then, finger in the air (1% = ~35k) … that’s NO down 2%, YES up 3%.
That’s a nice wee swing. 😉
Personally I’d be very uncomfortable at denying the vote to anyone who had been living in Scotland for a reasonable length of time and who could vote in other elections. Simply put they would have as much at stake in the future of Scotland as I would.
Where I’d draw the line is at postal votes. Mainly due to the evidence of polling held within Scotland after the event which painted a far narrower loss than the 10% we got. The key part of that is within Scotland. In fact if you think about it there’s no UK wide poll and competent researchers won’t have omitted adjusting their results to match the reality. The conclusion to be drawn is that the result wasn’t actually reversed by votes from outwith Scotland but there was every danger of that if the move towards YES had continued. There’s a very good reason for the lack of exit polling.
Thanks to the sterling efforts from Ruth Davidson and others we know just how far the postal vote was from the end result. Now part of that might be down to when people cast them. Certainly Darling seemed keen that they do so when No was ahead. We also know that the balance was 70/30 No/Yes.
If 19% of the votes were postal that means that the NO vote cast on the day itself was (55 – 70*.19) / (1-.19 ) ~ 51.5
Even had those votes all been cast from inside Scotland the sheer discrepancy between an exit poll, if one had taken place, and the announced result would have cast doubt on the validity of the result.
It’s fairly remarkable that there should be such a large discrepancy between a on the day vote and, if we believe the reports, the postal ballot.
There are many innocent explanations for the discrepancy such as, previously mentioned, when the ballots were cast and the different profile of those casting postal ballots. There still remains the distinct possibility that at least some of it is down to people outwith Scotland voting.
Even if the explanation is completely innocent the problem is that as you can’t trust some people to keep their mouths shut about their estimates of the postal vote then not having an exit poll does nothing to preserve trust in the outcome.
Shorter version,
Scottish Tax code covers most bases even if you don’t actually pay tax you’re willing to do so. Even pensioners will have one.
No postal votes , probably no proxies either. Even though I’m aware it isn’t necessarily so my natural inclination is that on average both those should be in line with the physical ballot.
No representation without taxation.
@Artyhetty says: 26 January, 2017 at 10:05 pm:
“keep the colour of a persons skin out of it will you, it is not acceptable at all, and is irrelevant. Thanks.”
I think, Artyhetty, that you seem to have missed the point. There can be no excuse for derogatory remarks about the colour of anyone’s skin or indeed of their country of origin, religious faith or sexual orientation.
However, mentioning them, in other contexts though, is not derogation. Mainly it is just plain factual information.
Anyone can call me a Scot and I’m not offended. They can call me a white Scot and besides informing them my skin isn’t white but, depending upon the weather and other things it could be anything from near red to a sickly grey through blue with the cold. I certainly would not take offence. If they called be British I might qualify it with British-Scottish but I would, without a doubt, correct them if I was accused of being English, Welsh or Irish.
Perhaps this caper of taking offence at innocent remarks has gone a bit beyond the mark.
I’ll tell you a wee true story. During WWII I was living with my Grandparents in a very humble Ploughman’s Row cottage. We were quite poor and no one in the little farm hamlet ever locked their doors. No one had anything worth stealing anyway.
On a bitterly cold Winter’s day a knock came on the door. Not a usual thing. Anyone would just walk in and shout from the doorway It’s me, (Name), Granny. (She was Granny to everyone).
She called out. “Aye! Come awa ben”, but no one did. So she went to the door and there stood a young coloured gentleman with a very large suitcase. A seller of drapery and cloths
His teeth were chattering together and he was shaking like a leaf. Granny took him by the hand and led him to the big range with the fender and wee padded seats on each end. She then poured him a big mug of tea and toasted him a large slice of buttered toast. Then placed a blanket from the bed in the nearby bed recess around his shoulders. his was war time and everything was rationed.
After the young man had thawed out a bit she asked him what his name was and he gave his name in rather broken English.
Granny said, “Och! Ah canny say that”. Then she pointed to herself and said, “I’m Granny”. Then Pointed to him and said, “I’ll jist ca ye Johnny”. At that very instant a neighbour called John walked in the door and yelled as he entered, “It’s me Johnny, Granny”.
Granny then said, “Ach! I’ll jist hae tae ca ye Johnny the Darkie”.
Now believe me a great friendship began that day and until the day Granny died, (she was 99 and 10/11ths), the gentleman was still Johnny the darkie. He had become a well known Scottish businessman with shops in every Scots town and he often brought his wife and children to meet their, “Granny”.
Tell you something else. The army had built a large Supply Depot with a gate not 10 Yard from our door. Towards the end of WWII they built a POW Camp across the road from our door and Granny was Granny to all the British soldier guards and to the German & Italian prisoners too.
Now, do you imagine she was treating anyone with disrespect in any way?
To My Granny we really were all Jock Tampson’s Bairns. Aye! And we were all Granny Peffers’ grandkids too.
Heard a rumour that Holyrood consent will be needed for the Great Repeal Bill, removing EU laws from the uk, to pass into legislation.
Anyone confirm?
Who still watches Channel 5? The Channel that swung Keith Chegwin’s knackers in our faces through the Naked Jungle. What a load of bollocks!!
@ Meg merrilees 2.41 Pagoda typical Scottish lol. I wonder what they make of the Shard to Glacial or they Windmills to Dutch .
@heedtracker
=========
I think you mis-typed ht. Ted Heath (not the band leader though he did play church organ) took the UK into the EU (or rather the EEC). Thatcher later (1987) signed up to the Single European Act. This was to create a full internal market which the original treaty didn’t quite do. The EU per se was formed in 1993 (based on Maastricht treaty, paving the way for harmonising currencies and eventual Euro). Doesn’t take a thing away from the point you were making but it’s good to be as exact as possible.
galamcennalath Haha not a bad swing at all. I’d certainly take that on the day.
@Thepnr That’s the conclusion I’ve come to as well. The two years after A50 is triggered will be spent sorting the divorce settlement; not agreeing a trade policy between ruK and the EU. I just can’t see rUK getting anything close to free trade with the EU after the negotiations and even if they do, it could be many years away. iScotland in the EU at that point WOULD hamper our ability to continue trading with rUK.
EFTA membership sorts that issue, as you say. EEA members AND able to cut a free trade deal with our neighbours to the south. I don’t think that will have escaped the notice of the SNP head honchos given their recent trips to Iceland et al. Plus, as you say, joining should be much less of a headache.
Tam Dalziel
As the pater always said—a hawk out of a bad nest
Named after his imfamous ancestor–The Muskovy Beast aka The Bloody Dalziel
Look up the ancestor and see what he did for Scotland
Somebody last week was on about the Roman victory at Mons Graupius & that no trace of the bones of the 30,000 defeated Caledonians was ever found. There’s possibly a propaganda element here, although that’s about the number killed at Towton. There was no way the Mons dead could be buried so would be left to let the bluebottles do their work. The bones could have been then stacked & burned or just left? In the acid conditions of the Highlands, bones are a good source of Calcium & Phosphate. They would eventually be eaten by livestock & just as the antler-drop each Spring is mostly eaten by the stags by mid-Summer (those not collected by keepers) so hill coos also will completely consume a stags skeleton if they find one. The beasts are carrying calves & need the minerals, ditto hinds & stags also have a new set of antlers to build. Add wild boar & bears to the mix & the bones would eventually vanish without trace. The tribes wealth was counted in cattle so no shortage of teeth to do the work.
To all who replied to my post I read your answers with respect I,would never under any circumstances call your answers or opinions pish as I respect that other people have a right to their opinions even if I do not agree with them
Published on Grouse Beater midnight:
‘The Tartan Elephant’ in Westminster’s halls of power
and
Mel Gibson’s ‘Hacksaw Ridge’ – a war movie too far.
Dan Huil
Fluffy said that yesterday in the form of a not-so-veiled threat. Having said that: he isnae exactly in the inner circle so I would take anything he says with a pinch of salt.
Funny thing is that the Sewell convention has been pretty much turned into a mere pretendy democratic form of consent so what he is on about is beyond me.
Anyway- it’s Friday night after a hell of a week so I’m enjoying my first scoofs of tennents so all is good in the world of Tam. Enjoy your weekend my friends.
The thing about the Great Repeal Act is that whilst it removes a restriction on what Holyrood may or may not do it only really removes a reminder that UK, and hence devolved laws, must meet a minimal compliance level with EU directives. That’s assuming that Westminster don’t pull a fly move and add actual repeals to laws as part of the package. Even if the UK were to remove a statutory requirement to implement EU directives or have EU bodies as a final arbiter where requires as part of its membership those would still apply. regardless of whether it’s a prelude to leaving the EU or not a repeal of statutes that specify the EU makes a lot of sense.
The one potential source of legitimate complaint would be that in reality it’s probably going to be more of a Reform Act rather than a Repeal and there might be a temptation to replace restrictions on Holyrood by a UK body. Realistically though if pushed ever so gently in the wrong direction Westminster might be foolish enough to state the obvious that Holyrood can’t create laws that contravene UK treaty commitments.
Blair Paterson 4:38
Very commendable for sure but at odds with blood and soil racial stereotyping that has no place in either the actual country Scotland our wishes for the future of Scotland.
So forgive the poor reprobates here for their uncouth ways, but your sinister undercurrents have a tendency to bring the worst out in otherwise kind people.
And let’s not forget that 2 weeks running on QT some subjective thinking , adding NADA to debate and most willingly misinformed person in the audience making pro Britnat empty comment about Sturgeon’s penchant for continuous referendums…..much to the merriment of some of the other like minded audience members and uber pro unionist panel…..host included.
Who will they employ next week to relay this message ?
If people want credibility when making these statements then perhaps best not to just parrot some of the shit they have extracted from tabloids and recognise that as they themselves have nil, nada, zilch experience of living in the country they are slating perhaps if they took their Britnat tunnel vision glasses off they could consider the possibility that their perception could be wrong !……yes I am dreaming I know.
And thus reality dictates that I must accept, post Brexit, that we now live in an era where there are those so blinded by Britnat logic who simply think ‘I am right and you are wrong…always’ which clearly explains their illogical allegiance to King Trump ruler of Trumperica the land of the MeMeMe.
The Britnats see Trump the volatile as an ally in their neverendum quest to suppress and eliminate all free speech that is NOT endorsing the extreme right’s ugly rhetoric of division and hate.
These are sad and scary times we now live in, where the wrong message is being communicated and the wrong people are being put in power.
So if there are those who are unwilling to respect or understand our aim for independence then that explains more about who they are than who they think we are.
@Robert Peffers
From that oil & gas link you gave, which appears to be a Fitch company (credit raters), I think this gives away their UK-centric view of the industry:
“The UK government has been supportive of the oil and gas sector“.
Oil & Gas UK, the industry body, might agree some, but the UK Gov were slow, greedy in its first year or two under Osborne, and haven’t given enough support in the industry’s view. So they certainly wouldn’t agree completely, they’ve been noisy in complaint. But this is interesting:
“Gross oil and gas exports were less than 6% of the UK’s total exports in 2014, while for Scotland oil and gas related exports were 28.3% of gross exports.”
Doing a ratio on that 6% figure and saying Scotland is 1/10th to 1/12th of the UK’s exports as a per capita amount, from the 6% of UK exports figure it would have to be 50% of Scotland’s exports, whereas the actual figure it gives is 28.3%. But oil is 95% and gas is 55% in Scotland according to that report, so what happened to the rest of the 50% of Scotland’s exports figure?
It adds credence to the theory that the rUK is nicking our exports, somehow, even if totally “legally” because we’re still part of the UK and some is re-exported from the rUK.
Re; Fiona Laing@2.15.
Well said, great comment, nice to see more women on here too. 🙂
Re indyref2
Need to convince all yes folk from indyref 2 to vote same way
Convince all 14-15 yr old pluses to do likewise
Fantastic turnout last time but get another 5% who didn’t vote to say Yes
Postal ballots – stop Tories getting old buddies to sign up to No when they hadn’t a clue what was being asked. I’ve said before that 90% returns on some care/ nursing homes are suspicious.
We have no devo Max to undermine us. Folk know it’s brexit with right wing neo cons or Indy in EU
whenever you need a reminder of why we want/need Independence along comes a talkshow with the perfect example
“We have no devo Max to undermine us.”
This is when TMay will offer Scotland a separate Brexit deal. That’s their next VOW and they will use it to split the YES vote. Just wait and see the Daily Redcoat’s “SCOTLAND TO GET OWN BREXIT DEAL” headline.
And when we fall for it (again), w=they willd eliver precisely hee-haw.
You read it here first.
I have a postal vote, half the time I’m here and could have voted in person, half the time I’m away for the week and couldn’t. I’m a YES voter, no medical reason for a postal vote, and absolutely no way I could put off a week away on business, to vote.
WOS archive links now over on O/T.
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/snp-tables-first-four-amendments-article-50-bill
O/t ish.
Torcil Chriton (sp) for the DR covering the May/Trump love in from America on Brewster Shortbread at lunchtime.
Line clear as a bell with no dropout. Funny that eh?
Gorbachev says that ‘the nuclear threat once again seems real”.
“Politicians and military leaders sound increasingly belligerent and defence doctrines more dangerous. Commentators and TV personalities are joining the bellicose chorus. It all looks as if the world is preparing for war,” (Time magazine)
He urged Trump and Putin to everything they can to reduce the world’s nuclear arsenal/
@ Robert Peffers
A redeeming point, in the very parochial journo in a Londoncentic programme on a shite TV channel. That OK Robert? 🙂
@ meg merrilles
Here’s the link
Mikhail Gorbachev says ‘it looks like the world is preparing for war’
http://archive.is/HmKWi
Fiona Laing
Excellent post Fiona. Thank you
Yay, Scotland is getting our own emoji at last (summer)!
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15054095.Scotland_will_finally_be_getting_its_own_emoji_in_summer/
Proud cybernetic
Re a separate brexit deal offered to Scotland.
The likelihood of that happening at the moment is zilch. Even the DR wouldn’t be stupid enough to run a second vow………. No you right.
Trump to have a star visit. Buy your kilts dig out yo or sporrans and plaid,
Brigadoon is coming to town.
Hope Mundell and May check out the right tartans ? Wee tank commander leading the way. Cartoon required
@ Nana
Thanks for the link
@ Meg
Gorbachev was one of the good guys who genially wants world piece and did his best to make it happen. I think the west mistook his efforts as a sign of capitulation.
@Tam Jardine
Thanks for the info, Tam.
Sorry ” state visit “or is it a star visit.
Watch the royals out in force. Prince Andrew touring the golf courses of scotch land with trump. Fergie lending a hand or toe.
I daresay I’ll be unpopular for saying this, but an excellent press conference performance by Theresa May that was on the BBC just now. She was inclusive while mentioning or alluding to conventions (human rights and so on), a little gentle “behave yourself” counter to his rhetoric – and perhaps actions too.
Dress sense clever too, matching the Donald’s tie!
I think a lot of people underestimate May, we should make sure we don’t.
Yes indyref 2
Yip be unpopular.
Our country our country – Scotland , Wales doesn’t exist.
@yesindyref2 6.22
Aye, never, ever undestimate any Tory. Even the incompetent beard muncher is a devious conniving nasty piece of work.
May didn’t get to be PM by being ‘nice’.
May is a warmongering deluded liar. She is responsible for killing more innocent people in the world than anyone. She and her Party are just a bunch of lazy, greedy, tax evading liars. They are a appalling disgrace Malicious liars, The harm they have done is immeasurable. They are destroying the world economy, The Tories are the only asociation who have banned renewables and support Nuclear.
Scotland has been treated appalling by the Tory/Unionist crooks. Since 1928 and before.
Totally agree with yes Indy ref 2
May was excellent and found the correct balance and tone.
I think the Uk/US relationship is going to be great and will also impact positively on Scotland.
As for Indy, all this high powered political stuff can’t be great as it makes us look very small and insignificant.
Sad but true, I’m afraid.
Sky news reporter ” Trumps mother was Scottish—-that makes him an Anglophile” ?????
@yesindyref2
You going soft in your old age? She that wants to scrap ECHR legislation in the UK. The same one that commissioned the vans to drive around the UK telling migrants to go home. Her that insists “Brexit means Brexit” without a clue as to what will replace it. That same May?
Just glad I no longer watch the BBC so didn’t have to watch the forked tongue darting in and out of her mouth as she hissed out yet more lies aimed at the gullible. I don’t underestimate her though, she is simply pure evil and we will find that out for sure.
May and her associates running off to the US to get and get them to bail the Tories out. After the trouble they have caused by their incompetent, ignorant wicked behaviour. Lining their greedy pockets and misusing and abusing public funds. Illegally wasting public money. On grotesque projects of no value and cutting NHS/Education and social care etc. Sanctioning and starving vulnerable people. They are despicible.
May represents England, nothing else.
This is an Independence supporting website. Not a Tory love-in.
That is why it is so successful. No Tory/Unionists to try and destroy it. Like they have destroyed every other website with their moronic nonsense.
Some folk don’t get it. Trying to muck up the site. Cut off.
Watching Trump May meeting on a guest tv ra noo..
Hahaha, this is comedy platinum, check out the body language, shake my hand again, no back patting mind, tis like the great stand-off hahaha!
Cheers to ye ma Scotland, our time’s a comin’ soon.
X.
Real soon.
May & Trump are right wingers who could not give a fuck about the lives of the vast majority of people either side of the pond.
I find most of the coverage of this staged,pathetic posturing quite revolting.
Stu Mac says:
27 January, 2017 at 4:09 pm
@heedtracker
=========
Noted! Underlying it all is the bullshit we’re being drenched in tory BBC media wise, UK the new global power. It may happen, hope so but if it wisnae for EU membership in the 70’s and NOT Scots oil, UK would be on a very different timeline right the now.
Add to the mass social unrest in the 70’s, mass strikes, class war in and around pits and steel plants, EU membership and not Scots oil, saved the English from god knows what, revolution maybe. There’s all kinds of evidence that the far right hard core Cons were planning a coupe to get the left out. PM Wilson was bugged by the spooks.
And yet here we are, on a new mental as anything rule Britannia timeline and one where tory BBC led media propaganda is working really hard to kid us on Brexits good for you.
It is interesting why only London voted Remain too. Its that city of sic million that’s become rich beyond their wildest dreams, in the EU.
Have you:D
What do you think, more votes for Yes
https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/825045834446299136
Nana says:
Not in the way you mean … 🙂
What would we do if Trump came our FOR Scottish independence!?
Unlikely, but he’s so mixed up you never know!
Andrew I cannot see what is blood and soil about what I propose but I must admit that by the reaction I have been getting that is how it is being seen I mean only the native people of country being allowed to vote on the future of their country what is wrong with that? I am not by any means anti English I have four grandchildren who I love dearly and they are all English so I will just have to accept that most people on here do not agree with me but that does not mean I am wrong
Have heard two blatent mispronounciations on da bbc tonight..
1) TM was surposed to ‘meet’ President Trump.. but the newscaster said ‘beast’ President Trump.
2) A guest commentator referred to Mr T as President Chump.
You heard it too aye.
’17.
Pure evil.
i>”May was accused by Lord Roberts of being willing to allow someone to die “to score a political point” over the deportation of mentally ill Nigerian man Isa Muazu.[94] According to Muazu’s solicitor, May had arranged for the asylum seeker, who was said to be “near death” after a 100-day hunger strike, to be deported by a chartered private jet.[94] To strengthen the Home Office’s tough stance an “end of life” plan was reportedly offered to Muazu, who was one of a number of hunger strikers at the Harmondsworth Immigration Removal Centre.[95]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_May
Blair,you then cannot see the nose in front of your face.
Your posturing is exactly the definition blood & soil nationalism.
Please don’t throw in your English relatives to “get you off the hook”.
C4 news really working Heil Trump. They’re disgusting really, if youre not planet toryboy.
Obama never got anything like this from our tory BBC led media freak show. SO what if Trump likes “coming to Scotland.” Hitler liked dogs, Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps and mass murder.
May and her pal Trump will do nothing good at all for Scotland, quite the opposite. Looks like the propaganda machine in UKOK Is doing a good editing, soft focus job on these two scheming yet powerful twirps.
Aww, see he really cares about us, aw. Sickening manipulation, it works on some, but certainly not all.
Blair Paterson @19:13:
Depends what you mean by “native”. If you mean “native born”, or “native by direct descent”, that’s almost a definition of “blood and soil”. (The clue lies in the names.)
If on the other hand you mean “native by residence”, you have instead what all your critics are recommending.
Correct me by all means if I’m wrong, but I have the distinct impression you do mean the former. Largely based it seems on the assumption that somehow it will make “yes” more likely the next time round. For which there’s no evidence. Incomers to Scotland mostly don’t suffer from the cringe suffered by too many native-born Scots with acquired inferiority complex.
Arguments with a whiff of “Scotland for the Scots” or “Scotland First”, to parrot Jacob Rees Mogg’s recent “Britain First” parroting Donald Trump’s American original, simply validate the Unionist argument that we’re vile racist seps, whereas they are pure as the driven snow, with no hint of atavistic nationalist sentiments whatever. (Aye, right.)
So do you see where you are taking this (intentionally or otherwise)…?
ArtyHetty says:
27 January, 2017 at 7:37 pm
May and her pal Trump will do nothing good at all for Scotland, quite the opposite
Heil Trump is going to a major BetterTogether 2 player, hopefully:D
@Hamish100 “Yip be unpopular.”
🙂
@Blair Paterson
No, it’s not “blood”, because you’re not insisting on Scottish ancestry as some other would “yea unto 382 generations”. Which is of course totally impossible, apart from the undiscovered cave in Mons Graupus, cut off from civilsation for 3,850 years.
It is a bit soil because of the insistence on being born here. My own kids are only born here because I turned my back on riches and loads of money working in Germany and probably then the USA, so our kids would have birth certificates in Scotland. They could ahve been born in Germany otherwise.
Some sort of residency requirement is certainly valid, and there is indeed such a requirement, but it does need tightening up to limit second-homers and holiday homers. They should have to nominate primary residence, wherever in the world, and only be allowed to “flip” in strict circumstances. I think that’s too lax.
2017.
The ‘year of the rooster’ begins (officially) tomorrow.
After this articles video it’s like..
‘Year of the Roaster!’
Right now is chinese hogmanay..
Should our auld acquaintance be forgot.
X.
@yesindyref2 says: 27 January, 2017 at 4:55 pm:
First up it was not my link. I just re-posted it. I was making two points. One was that they had, (apparently), not understood the way that Scotland is financed and has no direct cash gains whatsoever from the oil & gas sector revenues as these are all accounted by Westminster as being gained from the UK’s, “Extra-region-Territory”.
In the first place they are not from some extra region of the UK for by international law of The Seas they fall under Scottish Legal Jurisdiction. That carries several penalties for Scotland. In the first place the financial burden of policing the installations is placed upon the adjacent local authority areas of Scotland and, if a crime is committed on an installation, then the cost of prosecuting it fall upon the local council tax payers and the Scottish court system.
Just as happened with the prosecution of the Lockerbie Bomber case as that was in Scottish territorial Air Space so had to be tried under Scots law.
Then they also made claims about the oil & gas exports. But again these are not put through the accounts as from Scotland so they must be accounted as being from the UK and, as Westminster is the de facto parliament of England and England is accounted as the UK, (no block grant), that is counted as only English exports.
It is quite impossible to use Westminster’s figures as they do not class Scottish things as Scottish but even worse the count English things on both sides of the accounts, Debits & Credits, to show England in a good light and Scotland in a bad light.
Hence the never ending claims of big black holes of Scottish debt. It is not possible that Scotland owns any debt for Scotland’s books must be balance every year. But England has no official figures because England is financed as the UK.
Ergo if it’s the UK’s it’s England’s and that goes for both sides of the accounts – debits and credits. So how come they do not claim the debits, (debts), are they not all English too?
How come we are told we are subsidised by English taxpayers when all the UK pays tax on the same rate scales?
Then consider that Scottish per capita GDP is consistently higher than either the UK, as a whole, or any other UK individual country?
That means per head of population each Scot contributes more revenue to the treasury than any other part of the UK. Now in my book that clearly shows that each Scot is subsidising every other UK person.
Regarding postal votes, if we can cut them to only absolutely necessary, we will cut down on the ability to interfere with the overall vote as I see this as a weak point.
Think it was Theresa when she was Home Secretary that pulled the UK Navy rescue ship out of the Mediterranean,
saying that the chance of being rescued when crossing the Mediterranean was an incentive to refugees/immigrants,
Brutish values,
was not long after the wee soul Alan Kurdi washed up on the beach in Turkey,
that`s the type of animal Theresa is.
@Robert Peffers
Indeed. I did spend some time myself trying to prove things one way – or the other, and gave up in the end. I couldn’t find anything conclusive, one definitive sets of figures. Both sides can use different sets of figures to back up their case.
Some is deliberate obfuscation, some is fairly normal inaccuracy due to estimates. At its heart is that the Treasury and the HMRC are not properly set up to provide “regional” statistics.
However, many figures are impossible to actually get, without small businesses like mine being given even worse bureaucratic headaches than we have now. Same even for big companies, and time spent on paperwork, whether electronic or dead tree is less time to make / produce / invent / innovate and go out and sell sell sell like there’s no tomorrow.
The only answer is, of course, wait for it, wait for it (drum roll):
INDEPENDENCE
@Pete
As for Indy, all this high powered political stuff can’t be great as it makes us look very small and insignificant.
Sad but true, I’m afraid
What’s your thoughts on too wee Wallonia and too wee Malta Pete?
http://tinyurl.com/gpp3lbz
http://tinyurl.com/jxmbuod
The battle for the hearts and minds of the Scottish electorate has already kicked off for Round 2 in Scotland’s Independence battle.
This time though it boils down to a battle between a Tory version of Scotland in the UK and an alternative vision of us all of an Independent Scotland. Labour are too weak now in Scotland to play any meaningful part, though they’ll still try.
It’s Tories v Independence. So they are not friends.
Not all Unionists are Tories and neither are all Tories Unionists. The great majority are though and the Tory vote in Scotland is increasing as hard Unionists, former Labour supporters switch over to their natural party as theirs weakens due to their incompetence.
Tories in the majority are the undisputed enemies of Scottish Independence and should be seen as such, no must be seen as such. Because it is as plain as day, they were the last time under Cameron and Osborne and will be the next time under May and Hammond.
Nothings changed other than the masks worn by the wolves and snakes. That’s no matter how the BBC and their party spin machine makes them appear to us mere mortals.
Can’t help but think porn star Teresa May is very likely to be able to say something more politically substantial than PM Theresa “I use a lot of words but actually say fuck-all” May.
Hypocrisy knows no limits.
On the BBC 6pm news Kamal Ahmed said
“.. the US is ‘our’ biggest trading partner outside the EU. We sell more to the US than they send to us.
In 2015-
UK exports to USA were £100bn or 20% of Britian’s total exports
UK exports to EU were £222bn that’s over 40% of out total exports.
America might be smaller ( just a bit, I make that more than 50% smaller in total ) but many companies are relishing the prospect of doing more business across the Atlantic ….”
The cameras then cut to a firm in East London that makes Smoked Salmon who currently pay a 5% tariff and have to prepare the food to different standards for USA market… (hidden costs that no one is really acknowledging.)
So this is how things stand:
It’s OK for Britain to leave the EU and risk over £222bn of exports to the EU (- and how much of Scotland’s £55bn of exports to the rUK would be affected by losing that £222bn? )
Britain sells more to the US than they sell to ‘us’.
Read the figures again but substitute Scotland for the UK, England for USA
Scotland exports £55bn to England
Scotland exports £12bn to the EU.
Trade with the EU has increased by 10% recently and many companies are relishing the prospect of doing more trade with the EU. (Joanna Cherry)
Scotland risking £55bn trade with England is derided as a bad deal. ( we know that they rely on our electricity, gas, oil, food, gin etc. Do we sell more to England than they sell to us? )
Misreporting as usual, or are these ‘ facts’ being presented with an, ‘alternative’ rosy glow.
I’m not sure Theresa May crawling on her hands and knees, begging and grovelling to a man who advocates torture and likes abusing women, purely to bail Great Britain out, is really a good look.
What a time to be alive.
Breastplate @ 19:52,
I think there is a great deal of confusion about the postal vote situation, not helped it must be said by Ruthie’s inadvisable blethers on that subject at the last indyref.
There seems to be some kind of assumption floating around that there was some kind of illegitimate interference by outsiders via postal votes, but there is no evidence whatever for that notion. If there was a significant difference in the proportion of yes:no it was very likely due to population selection: old people, business people on the hoof, people eligible but temporarily resident elsewhere, members of the armed forces, etc., possibly amplified by those people also being less inclined to the self-education process to which many “stay-at-homes” committed themselves.
If there is a legitimate concern, I belive it rests with the ability of postal votes to be used for a kind of personation (which is in fact a crime). By that I mean ballots being used as “blank cheques”, signed-off by the genuine voter but completed eg. by another member of a multi-person household or by a “helper” provided by a visitor from a political party or campaign group.
I don’t know if anyone has made any attempt to fully investigate this possibility. Maybe however someone can add more facts based on knowledge or experience of this rather than mere opinions.
One aspect can be easily dealt with as a matter of procedure. Simply forbid any such “helper” being associated in any way with any organisation involved in an election/referendum.
Personally, I’m of the decided opinion that people who are able to make it in person to a polling station should be expected to show up and publicly demonstrate that they are making the choice for themselves. (With obvious reasonable exceptions for the infirm and unavoidably absent.)
A plebiscite, like justice, should not only be done, it should be seen to be done.
@Thepnr
Tories as in Westminster Tories, yes. Tories as in Holyrood Tories clinging to the Westminster Tories’ skirts, yes.
Ordinary conservatives in Scotland no, of course not (as you’ve agreed before). It’s a difficult hearts and mind to persuade them, but needs to be done.
By the way, I personally don’t think May and the Westminster Tories will try hard to prevent our Independence. I think they’ll be glad to be shot of us “mutineers” on the good ship HMS Bountiful, as it sails off into the sunset and wild uncharted extra-regio territories of icebergs and hidden pirates. Mundell will be sent off in a lifeboat with instructions to blast the Nats out of the water with his peashooter.
Ouch.
‘…then no Incomers should be allowed to vote in it only the native people of Scotland should be allowed to vote on the future of THEIR country what fair minded person could object to that ?’
‘Those people who mov.ed to Scotland did so for their own benefit any benefit to Scotland of their being here is just a by product let the Scots the true Scots decide their own future no one else’?
‘I meant to say earlier only those who were born and live in Scotland should be able to vote’
yesindyref2: ‘No, it’s not “blood”,’
Yes it is, it’s exactly what Blair ‘means’ and it isn’t the first time he’s been on here stating ‘exactly’ that. Your ‘caveat’ wasn’t and has never been his ‘caveat’.
‘It is a bit soil because of the insistence on being born here.’
It’s not ‘a bit soil’, it’s clearly by definition of his complete statement that confirms he ‘meant’ ‘only those who were born and live in Scotland’, that it is ‘wholly’ soil.
Are you just seeing what ‘you’ want to see here yesindyref2?
Y’know there is ‘taking on’ someone else’s ‘viewpoint’ in an attempt to remain impartial and objective and then there is just plain stripping it of the substantive meaning and intent of the person who stated those views. A glossing over is the result which merely serves to ‘give succour’ to those the who hold such views.
I know which one you are doing with those comments, the only question I have about that is why?
Hypocrisy example 2:
THeresa May, in her speech to Congress said yesterday:
“..the days of Britain interfering in Sovereign countries.. are over. ”
Sewel Convention!
What would be ideal by the way, is either to split the Holyrood Tories from the Westminster ones, or for some enterprising Scottish Conservatives to launch a “Conservatives for Scotland” political party, and put up candidates against the Tories. Now that I’d like to see (wouldn’t vote for them though!).
K1,
Yes, I also had a strong feeling of deja-vu about this one…
Hmmm…
Blair Paterson: “If we ever have a second Ref., then no Incomers should be allowed to vote in it only the native people of Scotland should be allowed to vote on the future of THEIR country what fair minded person could object to that?”
Depends which incomers you mean, how transient they are, on a work permit or British visa, and how committed they are to staying here.
I’ve no doubt BritNat placemen voted for BritNat rule to continue. But a few might have changed their mind on seeing the loss of European friendship and privileges. I’d not want to give short-term students another vote, scared witless by Better Together of losing their grants. The Irish seem to know how to conduct a referendum that gives those who care a vote and would be affected by the outcome. Irish excluded incomers from their recent abortion referendum which forced Catholics to make a mature decision and not rely on others to make it for them. The Brits excluded Europeans a vote on Brexit living in Scotland, England and Wales, which has been a bone of contention since. So, in some regards you make a point a good many have thought about but some dare not speak its name.
Is everyone forgetting that prior to the EU ref. there was a change on the voting register and a huge number of people fell off the register.
That is one reason why the overall total of votes cast in the EUref was a lower percentage than for Indyref1.
We still have a lot of work to do to re-register those people and GOTV for the Council elections and that is fast approaching.
In my opinion, (when asked about being ineligible to vote by en ex-pat Scot working in london) Salmond was right to say in 2012, only those living and working in Scotland will have the vote. If you want to vote and you’re not living or working in Scotland, then you have two years to do something about it.
I don’t think Holiday homes and 2nd homes should be included but that needs tightening up through the electoral register, also student votes can be prone to interference.
http://archive.is/VWEEp
A lot of English work gone into latest Graun say Non to the sweaties. Btl is interesting, in that they’re so NO to Scottish indy and so very long. It must take these guys hours to type out verbatim what they read and hear, in the exact same newspaper.
Very snooty screeds of sneery condescension and “they’ll never do it, its ours for ever,” is always fun to read. Did you even know that everything from schools to the NHS are really terrible in their Scotland region, as is everything else too.
@Dan Huil says: 27 January, 2017 at 6:54 pm:
“May represents England, nothing else.”
If you had not yet picked that up before now then you most certainly should have. What else do you imagine that the Supreme Court of England was telling the World?
It is simply and exactly what Fluffy Mundell leaked to the Public Domain on National TV.
“The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”
Except the Treaty of Union did nothing of the sort. There is not a single word in the actual Treaty, nor in either Kingdom’s individual Acts of Union, that even hints at such a thing.
There is nothing anywhere that actually states anything remotely resembling that. All there is are that the Parliament of the 3 country Kingdom of England sat and wound itself up. Meanwhile in Scotland they never got the chance to wind up the Parliament of the Kingdom of Scotland because the parliamentarians were hiding out to stop being lynched by the people and the Scottish Parliament was only prorogued.
Previously the English Kingdom had refused to allow the King of Scots to take the Kingdom of England and add it to his existing Kingdom as the law of England in 1603, (divine Right of Kings), would have allowed because Scots Monarchs were not sovereign and thus did not have Divine Right of Kings. Which is why he remained James I of England & VI of Scotland and never James I of The United Kingdom. By the time of James II of England & VII of Scotland the English wanted shot of the threat of becoming Scottish and they had their, “Glorious Revolution”, and threw out James II.
However, that did not change him as King of Scots because Scotland remained an Independent Kingdom. England then assumed without any legal process that their change of monarchy was to be forced upon the Scottish Kingdom and that was why there was what they still call a Jacobite Rebellion. You cannot, though, rebel against a monarch not your own. So King Billy & Queen Mary of England could not be legally, under Divine Right, Monarchs of Scotland.
Which was why the law of England Changed in 1688 to make the 3 country Kingdom of England a constitutional monarchy. They retained the monarch of England as sovereign but forced then to sign to give away their legal Divine Right to the Parliament of England. That is they made them legally sign to delegate their Sovereignty to the Parliament of England.
So the legal situation in 1688 was that the two Kingdoms were still legally independent but England assumed that England’s imported monarchy were also monarchs of Scotland and were still calling the Scots who would not accept them as rebels against the English Monarchy.
Which was why they forced the Treaty of Union even although they were slaughtering Scots as rebels nearly 40 years after the Treaty at Culloden.
Yet there is not a word in the Treaty that it united other than two equally sovereign Kingdoms.
Since then Westminster has assumed exactly what Fluffy claimed – Even although the English Parliament was wound up that it continued as the Parliament of England renamed the Parliament of the United Kingdom and that Scotland belonged to England.
Which is exactly what the Supreme Court they set up ruled just the other day. Yet there is not a shred of evidence to back up their decisions.
The Westminster Parliament has run itself since devolution as the Parliament of England and they then introduced EVEL to prevent Scotland or anyone else interfering in England’s matters while at the same time devolving English powers over everyone else.
Hi yesindyref2 at 8:38 pm.
You typed,
“…or for some enterprising Scottish Conservatives to launch a “Conservatives for Scotland” political party…”
Maybe this bunch are going in that direction? (BTW: I know Paula Rose has been in contact with them.)
https://twitter.com/YesTories
@K1
“blood” is ancestry, pure and simple. That’s who were your parents, grandparents, and theirs ad infinitum That’s “blood”.
You could have a pure blood Martian who was “born and live in Scotland”, with Martian parents, grandparents and all the generations before them, right the way back to when that black obelisk appeared on its surface – and before.
But it would still be “born and live in Scotland”, without one single drop of Scottish blood – unless it had ever had a blood transfusion.
So no, that’s not “blood and soil nationalism”, at worst it’s “soil nationalism”.
“Soil nationalism”, by the way, would prevent Angus Robertson, depute leader of the SNP and Westminster SNP Leader, and Mike Russell, SNP and indeed ScotGov Brexit Minister – from voting in our Independence Referendum. And many others.
Clearly I don’t support that either.
the united kingdom has not any power to give Scotland any government only the Scottish executive have this power.
when the Scottish government was recalled and with it the Scottish claim of rights this in effect was
not a devolved but a Scottish parliament.
the union of the unitedkingdom of England and scotland is
not basically defunct its just waiting for the wee lassie to say its naked.
@BDTT
That’s good news, and they should indeed be part of YES2.
But I was looking, to be blunt, for something to actually split the Conservative vote in Scotland 🙂
Yes Conservatives could be members of that, but not the party, except as an advert.
@Others
I like accuracy, and nobody should be attacked for views they don’t actually hold. I’ve seen the OPs postings myself and disagree every time, but it’s not “blood”. There are others who are “blood”, like wanting at least one grandparent Scottish and I disagree with them even more.
It’s the People of Scotland who should get to vote, whatever their (original) nationality or parentage. And for me, that excludes “genuine” Scots who don’t live in Scotland – precisely as per the last referendum.
Ye know how sportspersons sometimes throw their gaming equipment into the audience when they win..
You’ll never see that at the darts final.
Happy hogmanay!
X.
@Meg merrilees
there was also no vote for the 16 and 17 year olds in the EU Referendum,
100,000 16/17 year olds voted 70% Yes 30% No in Indy1,
think if they had been able to vote they would have been more forward looking instead of backward looking like a lot of those that wanted a return of the Blood soaked Brutish Empire that voted for Brexit,
if all 16/17 year olds in UK had a vote in EU Ref it might have changed the result,maybe.
Mr Peffers.
Can I humbly suggest that you write a book on the subject of the kingdoms, nations, countries of these islands and the political and regal unions, articles, treaties, etc.etc.etc. which apply therein.
You would appear to have studied these to a great degree and as much as your individual take on matters historical may be most interesting in itself, I’m not sure that this is the place to go into such detail.
Fuck all this born and bred pure Scots only allowed to vote shite.
We’re all mongrels. If you’re genuinely pure bred then you’re most likely retarded….which probably explains advocating a right to vote based on the supposed purity of your tartan blood.
55% of us made us a laughing stock.
Is it any wonder we are being mocked?
The only “sovereign” colony in the world.
@robertknight @ Robert Peffers,
I think the idea of a book is excellent, however WOS is also absolutely the right place to discuss constitutional concepts in depth.
Many read WOS who wouldn’t read a book that might or might not get published and the articles here are too valuable a resource to hide under a bushel. We also educate ourselves and each in our own way through our own contacts spread the message effectively and, more importantly, speedily to counteract lies and genuine misconceptions
This would be a far less effective place were it not for Stu and Mr. Peffers and others doggedly chipping away to reveal the truth.
Colonisers having a say on whether a colony should become independent or not.
It never worked and never will.
@Rock
LOL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom
All information is and are relevant.
I am not a fucking coloniser.
I am being to think that a few people posting here as as thick as pig shit.
Don’t you understand how stupid & conservative you sound. A wonderful way to put off soft nowers born outwith bloody unicorn land(in your eyes).
The equivalent of EVEL.
Elizabeth
It’s only Rock
He has a gift for offending…well just about everybody really.
@robertknight
“I’m not sure that this is the place to go into such detail”
think it is up to Stu to decide that,
try twitter if you prefer shorter messages.
Really wasn’t asking ‘you’ about ‘your’ views, was asking you why you are ‘re interpreting’ Blair’s views. Maybe others can confirm whether I am way off the mark here?
My understanding of what Blair means is ‘blood and soil’ nationalism. As that relates to ‘who should get the vote’ in the next referendum? He specifically states ‘born and live in Scotland’. The meaning of this is to my mind; those who were not ‘born’ in Scotland and those who have ‘come (incomers) from other nations’ should not get to vote.
I’m not indulging in semantics here, genuinely that is my reading of his comments. Those comments ‘amount’ to only allowing those who were born here and who live here, (having already been born here: natives). He explicitly states ‘no incomers should be allowed to vote only native people of Scotland should be allowed to vote’.
For the purposes of ‘understanding’ his clear intent, this in the context of indyref2, is ‘blood and soil’. This is the ‘closest’ description we have that ‘fits’ his narrative.
You are going down a different path in response to my question on the ‘substantive meaning and intent’ of Blair’s comments yesindyref2, you’re deflecting, Imo.
So, if I have misunderstood his ‘meaning’ can you now elucidate what your understanding of Blair’s meaning is? In effect he is calling for those not born in Scotland and incomers (he elaborates on that, there is no misunderstanding in his mind what ‘he means’: Those people who mov.ed to Scotland did so for their own benefit any benefit to Scotland of their being here is just a by product ) not to have the vote. That ‘amounts’ to Scottish nationalism in its most base and often cited pejorative ‘term’ of ‘blood and soil’
Those who are Scottish by ‘birth’ only. This is my reading of his comments.
I can’t be any more explicit than that.
Oh and I don’t view disagreeing with someone’s ‘meaning’ in their comments as ‘attacking’, yesindyref2, no need to re interpret robust questioning and disavowing of a position someone takes that one finds distasteful or disagreeable as an ‘attack’.
H&S,thank you.
I know I shouldn’t rise to it but sometimes it’s so hard to sit on your typing fingers.
However sometimes it feels right to proffer an alternative point of view with robust language.
Here and now, right now.
Choose self-respect.. choose life..
Choose Scotland.
X.
Not feeling the love at all! In fact I’d at least have like a discussion on this between two people capable of stringing coherent sentences together. Prats!
To those who imagine that the Tory Government are not that bothered by Scotland’s Independence – where on earth did you get that idea from?
Scotland is to England what a lifebelt is to a drowning man.
Now that The Donald and Teresa have met in person it is time to revisit the special relationship.
Ben Madigan is source.
Thanks Ben for a laugh.
https://eurofree3.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/special-relationship.jpg
Goodnight all
Just t’other night (forget which), Rock came on here, stating that we’ve waited 300 years for independence so we’ll happily wait another 300.
No-one rose to it. Not that I noticed anyway.
Please don’t react to his latest shite.
Elizabeth , Rock doesn’t speak for most of us, Robert Peffers called him out for what he is the other night. Just ignore and hopefully he will find some filing to do, must be boring being a paid troll.
@Elizabeth Stanley
What the others say.
Just ignore Rock, he doesn’t even think The National supports Independence.
question
would being in efta still guarentee tariff free access to the eu single market, or would we need to also be a member of the eea?
Hi Rock.
Yilliv hud yir tea? Come in, come in, it’s nice to see you. How’s yirsel’, you’re looking grand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84vwij4aWU0
BTW: You never came back on the Declaration of the Clergy (1309), which I mentioned in a reply to you the other day. Did it blow your mind so much that you were dumfoonirt? Did the mention of “Plebs” render your typing finger numb? Did it make you realise that you have been gibberin’ braille about the sovereignty of the Scots?
http://wingsoverscotland.com/rics-rolling/#comment-2199373
Meg merrilees says:
27 January, 2017 at 8:36 pm
“”Hypocrisy example 2:
THeresa May, in her speech to Congress said yesterday:
“..the days of Britain interfering in Sovereign countries.. are over. ” “”
………….
This is good to know. We were constantly told that if we voted for independence we would become a foreign country so now we know that when indyref2 delivers independence they won’t invade because we will be a sovereign, foreign country. Good to have that cleared up by TM and her new bestest friend.
Robert J. Sutherland,
“There seems to be some kind of assumption floating around that there was some kind of illegitimate interference”
With a long track history of bending and breaking laws and regulations that stretch over centuries, allow me my cynicism of working on the premise that the British Government and its agents will revert to type.
Let me also throw in that various arms of the British state are on record stating Scottish independence is a clear and present danger to them. That Scottish independence is a threat to them. That breaking up the UK should not be allowed. That awards were given out for helping to stop Scottish independence. That the BBC worked hand in glove with the British secret service.
Robert, I believe it to be a logical assumption that if the British State had opportunity to tamper with our Independence referendum at any time during the process, they would have done so in a heartbeat.
Would you not agree that this would be a reasonable stance to take?
If my logic is flawed I would be pleased to have it corrected.
The River Clyde should be heaving with multipurpose activity. They dropped the River Festival, they dropped the Glasgow Show. They dropped the..
Ye know ye’ve been doon the, but have ye ever been ‘up the waater’ Glasgow? Beyond the weir..
I have, I’ve rowed there and it’s beautiful.
T2.
X.
Sorry!
Tis a bit weird on here. I call out certain people who offend me but some regulars tell me not to bother.
I know these people don’t have a rational,normal view of stuff but why should they be given a free ride?
I get ignore the trolls but when the trolls are here now & very persistent should they spout rubbish without challenge?
Only regulars know the people with views that are not the norm. Casual viewers may be a little bewildered.
Unfair to call rock names. To me he comes over as very depressed about our Nation, most of us, most of the time, like to feel positive.
Sometimes we just have to all be strong together and all views have to be welcomed, even if we don’t agree, it makes us stronger.
Just my own bawbee’s worth so feel free to ignore.
@cat
The EEA is the SIngle Market. The EU members are all members of the EEA, and 3 out of 4 members of EFTA are also members of the EEA, with Swtitzerland having its own bilateral agreement with the EU.
EFTA does have its own international trade agreements, as does the EU. So membership of EFTA alone does not give membership of the single market. As far as I know the EEA has no international trade agreements.
Elizabeth Stanley,
“A wonderful way to put off soft nowers born outwith bloody unicorn land(in your eyes).”
There are no “soft nos” among the English.
The vast majority of the English voted No and will vote No.
EU nationals living in the UK were denied the vote in the UK independence referendum.
Don’t know how significant this is, maybe someone could enlighten me, but Mike Dailly has become a member of the SNP.
Interesting reading in his replies.
https://twitter.com/mikedailly/status/825084423376863232
Bbc uno with norton..
He’s the guest.
That’s what ahm sayin’.
I don’t want to get dragged into the Rock thing, but for what it’s worth, I think he says things that some of us are too scared to.
Sink or Swim with Independence.
Swim with Scotland – Sink with England
Make no mistake.
frogesque,
“Sometimes we just have to all be strong together and all views have to be welcomed, even if we don’t agree, it makes us stronger.”
Those who can’t stand others’ views even on a blog claim they are fighting for a fair and just independent Scotland.
They are more interested in imposing their views on others and have agendas of their own.
One_Scot,
“I don’t want to get dragged into the Rock thing, but for what it’s worth, I think he says things that some of us are too scared to.”
Precisely.
Because unlike others posting here, I don’t have any agenda of my own.
Nothing wrong with discussing history, per se, but it’d be more constructive to discuss where we’re going and what we want to be, as opposed to how and why we got here in the first place; which for the vast majority here is a given.
I’ve often felt the Indy movement suffers from too much banging on about historical wrong doings and unfair treatment at the hands of the British/English establishment. Furthermore, I’ll admit to suffering from the Scottish cringe seeing the likes of the SNG at Indy marches; dressed like extras from Rob Roy carrying flags on poles that look at best Romanesque, at worst like something from 1930s Germany.
I want to see an Indy Scotland not because of the actions of a parcel o rogues three centuries ago, or because of Thatcher’s legacy, or because I recon we in Scotland are better than everybody else.
I want to see an Indy Scotland because Westminster is broken beyond repair. Because the class system upon which the British Establishment thrives and which provides for the Monarchy, the House of Lords, the BBC etc. etc. cannot be changed nor indeed will ever change.
Everything which is wrong with the UK is embedded to the extend that it cannot be changed. Therefore if you don’t like something and you can’t change it, you either learn to live with it, or you leave it.
For Scotland to change it must leave the UK, and discussing whether this 300 year old treaty says this or whether this 200 year old treaty isn’t really a treaty at all, I doubt will bring that end goal any closer.
I’ll get off my soap box now. Apologies for the rant.
@ Elizabreth Stanley – don’t take it personally. There’s a long tradition of the British elite pouring scorn on their upstart subjects.
The Irish were targets for decades. The Indians too, Gandhi in particular. It isn’t that they hate us. They hate everybody but mainly themselves.
https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/10/06/negative-stereotypes-of-the-irish/
Poor southerners, colonised by every Tom, Dick and Harry, haven’t a clue who to be.
@Rock
sorry if you were being ironic,
but,
`Colonisers having a say on whether a colony should become independent or not.
It never worked and never will`
you should tell that to the Americans,Australians,Canadians,Brazilians,Argentinians,Mexicans,etc,etc,etc ….
There were two things that Cameron avoided like the plague, the £1.6trillion debt, and Scottish oil.
Theresa May has yet to speak of either of them.
Why? Because talking about the £1.6trillion debt and Scotland’s oil is one sure way of encouraging Scottish Independence.
@ Pete
“As for Indy, all this high powered political stuff can’t be great as it makes us look very small and insignificant.
Sad but true, I’m afraid.”
You’re hilarious. No–seriously. Spoken like a true imperialist. You want to be BIG and SIGNIFICANT.
Why?
[sniggers]
Hi Rock,No soft English born living in Scotland noers?
How can you possibly know that.
I agree that a majority of English incomers voted no but did they sway the vote?
How many true born & bred Scots voted no? Did they sway the vote?
@Elizabeth Stanley
I hope I didn’t offend you. Of course you can be offended by such comments, but the thing is that’s probably exactly what that poster is trying to achieve – disharmony and division. He / she is also hoping someone will bite and say something like “Yeah, the English, blah blah blah”. I think what we’re all trying to say is don’t take it to heart.
There’s another one, they seem to do a shift pattern, who picks on posters he thinks are useful, like recently Nana with her links, hoping to discourage them from posting, to discredit them. I’ve had people trying to do that in, errr, elsewhere, which I love because it stiffens my resolve to keep going. He also tries to use the “anti-English” line, as many of the Unionists you find on the London-based blogs try to do.
Yes, it does need to be pointed out every single time.
Re Rock I would give him the benefit of the doubt if he was not so keen on personnel attacks on respected posters on this forum. He is also continually calling people gullible because of his unique views on how businesses run or he is deliberately trolling.
Maybe we should see if he and senile dave post as the same time or are they on different shifts?
Scot Finlayson,
“you should tell that to the Americans,Australians,Canadians,Brazilians,Argentinians,Mexicans,etc,etc,etc
You are talking about countries where the colonisers took over by decimating the native populations.
In the vast majority of colonies, they were unceremoniously thrown out.
JK Rowling made her fortune in Scotland.
Yet not only does she have zero loyalty to Scotland, she has become an enemy of Scotland.
The vast majority of the English living here have their loyalty to England, which I have no problem with.
But it is not fair for Scotland that they are allowed a vote on Scotland’s independence from England.
As I have said before, after independence all would have equal status under a written constitution.
Let me explain why I’m pleased about current developments.
I voted Yes in 2014 but more importantly I support Brexit.
I hate being in the EU which is an organisation designed to crush nation states.
I want Scotland to be an independent country but only AFTER the UK has got us out of the EU.
Most people on here want to leave the UK but, bizarrely, want to be a vassal of the EU which is going to break up of its own accord.
It’s not rocket science to see the way things are going.
Most of the folks on here are more driven by hatred of England than by wanting real independence.
Sad really.
Robert Sutherland/ Breastplate. Re the voting in the Indyref and the allegations of voting fraud. I have posted the following info here before for others to look at. I do not claim to understand the analysis but what he, Dale Potter, has done has analysed all elections, from council, SP, GE and EU together with SIR(indy) and there definitely appears to be an irregularity with the SIR. There are two links, one is to a FB page where he describes the analysis and the other shows a series of graphs with plots which all seem to follow a pattern except the SIR. As I say, I have no knowledge of statistics, but perhaps someone else has and can comment.
https://www.facebook.com/mm0hgw/posts/675062915957155?comment_id=675229889273791&ref=notif¬if_t=like&hc_location=ufi
http://piratepress.org/triple_plots.pdf
robertknight,
“For Scotland to change it must leave the UK, and discussing whether this 300 year old treaty says this or whether this 200 year old treaty isn’t really a treaty at all, I doubt will bring that end goal any closer.”
Exactly.
The only thing that is relevant is that Scotland is still effectively a colony of England and we want to get out of that situation as quickly as possible.
yesindyref2, thank-you too.
Don’t worry about me.I have a rhino hide.I used to amuse myself on the Guido Fawkes blog which is a complete bear pit.
This is a place of tranquillity & good manners in comparison.
heedtracker says..7:30 pm
C4 news really working Heil Trump. They’re disgusting really, if youre not planet toryboy.
I noticed that too.
Shame, C4 News used to be..well..différent.
I agree that a majority of English incomers voted no but did they sway the vote?
How many true born & bred Scots voted no? Did they sway the vote?
It is down the leafy drives of Scotland where NO won. Issue facing those dwelling at the bottom of these drives now is, wtf is coming with Brexit and will it affect house prices. Yes it will. A lot more middle class Scots are lefties though.
Breastplate @ 22:43,
I agree that the British State doesn’t look upon Scottish independence with studied indifference. But it doesn’t do any good suspecting high-level conspiracies where there need be none.
Occam’s Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the most likely.
If there was any concrete evidence of organised state interference in the poll (which I wasn’t suggesting you in particular were saying, btw), I’m sure it would be interesting to see the details. But where are none, harbouring dark suspicions doesn’t cut the mustard with the public at large, and just makes anyone suggesting it appear a flake.
That’s not to say that individual agents on the BT side didn’t fall back on tried and trusted methods used by all political parties in garnering support for a vote, especially among the elderly. Shady practices should of course be identified and rendered as difficult to perpetrate as possible by proper procedure and by due vigilance.
The problem with postal voting, significantly extended as it has been in a well-meaning but (in my view) misguided attempt to encourage turnout, has arguably done the reverse, and made elections more vulnerable to potential malpractice, eg. as I previously outlined.
Making ever-wilder excuses for past failure merely diverts our attention from the only viable way forward: to convince enough voters by word and deed that the case for independence is irrefutable, and when the chance comes around again – as it surely will – to motivate them to turn out and actually vote for the thing.
Don’t you believe that’s possible?
Elizabeth Stanley,
“Hi Rock,No soft English born living in Scotland noers?
How can you possibly know that.”
It is not rocket science.
I was looking at the SNP spring conference agenda earlier. Did someone put MDA in the standing orders committee teapot?
It looks like a genuinely interesting and lively agenda. There should be some excellent debates, not least on land reform.
Fuck all this born and bred pure Scots only allowed to vote shite.
We’re all mongrels. If you’re genuinely pure bred then you’re most likely retarded….which probably explains advocating a right to vote based on the supposed purity of your blood.
@ Pete
“I want Scotland to be an independent country but only AFTER the UK has got us out of the EU…. Most of the folks on here are more driven by hatred of England than by wanting real independence. Sad really.”
FFS stop it, Pete. Ma sides are splittin’ here.
Na, laddie. You really REALLY need to try much much hrder to be convincing.
Nae cigar.
LMBHAO!!!
The only thing that is relevant is that Scotland is still effectively a colony of England and we want to get out of that situation as quickly as possible.
Focus on May council elections. If unionism can be voted out of Scots cities, the last redoubt for the Brits in Scotland is the BBC and the professions.
Another brilliant front page on ‘The National’ tomorrow.
Trump and May in La-La-land…
Also,it would seem Trump now believes that he predicted Brexit and said so when he arrived at Turnberry the day BEFORE the Brexit vote.
I’m sure we all remember him at Turnberry, on June 24th – the day AFTER Brexit, saying, what a wonderful thing it was that ‘Scotland had voted to take back control’ when, of course, we hadn’t!
Further, it would seem that (t)Ruthless Davidson has lived up to her name yet again.
At FMQ’s on thursday, she accused NHS Aberdeen of cancelling scheduled ops and leaving operating theatres empty.
Afterwards, North East MSP Gillian Martin tweeted that Ruth Davidson had made a “false claim that ARI theatres are empty”.
“Not what NHS Grampian told MSPs. Still no Tory MSPs attended that meeting,” she added.
In a statement NHS Aberdeen said it was wrong to suggest operations being cancelled was purely down to recruitment.
“We have 22 registered nurse vacancies and eight unregistered nurse vacancies across ARI and Woodend theatres at present. This is not solely a theatre staffing issue. Challenges in pre- and post-operative care, including the number of very ill patients we are treating at present, are all adding to the pressure we are facing.”
So, yet again she lies and delivers ‘alternative facts’ in the post-truth era. Maybe time for another letter to the Presiding Officer.
Breastplate, your logic is sound. The brainwashed, those touched with either gullibility or naivety, and the BritNats are the only groupings capable of believing that the British Establishment are above reproach when it comes to important elections and referendums.
I hesitate to say it, for there are many in the Yes movement who believe IndyRef14 was above reproach, but frankly, only a fool trusts the British Establishment.
They are rightly named ‘Perfidious Albion’. I’ll let Wikipedia do the rest.
“Perfidious Albion is an anglophobic pejorative phrase used within the context of international relations and diplomacy to refer to alleged acts of diplomatic sleights, duplicity, treachery and hence infidelity (with respect to perceived promises made to or alliances formed with other nation states) by monarchs or governments of Britain (or England) in their pursuit of self-interest and the requirements of Realpolitik.
Perfidious signifies one who does not keep his faith or word (from the Latin word “perfidia”), while Albion is derived from an ancient Celtic name for Britain.
tx dads, as i thought
only efta/eea membership can guarentee free movement of people and goods
this should be our stance on the eu in indyref2
we would win hands down, no question
& again I say am I to be denied a vote in a country I choose to live in by an accident of birth?
How would you police this?
How much money would it cost?
This makes me shudder as it has the flavour of a pure race. Not the road I would like to tread.
It’s very stupid even discussing this as it would be political suicide for any party contemplating it.
So,in future if anyone suggests this I’ll just type fuck off & there we have it.
Pete you are either a troll or just plain crazy. Letting the UK take Scotland out of the Eu is the end of our nation. We have many protections within the Eu. A UK isolated in charge of Scotland would run us into the ground and destroy our parliament.
You need to give yourself a good shake. When you are offered independence and refuse it, you are in fact a unionist.Your kind of nonsense is what got Scotland into this mess. You get Scotland as a sovereign independent nation. Then you argue about what clubs Scotland is in. If you are not independent you get the square route of another countries choices.
Fucking mental you are.
Most of the folks on here are more driven by hatred of England than by wanting real independence.
Sad really.
Well Pete, your mask just slipped, or rather fell off now. I knew you were a troll, a slow troll:D
Re-Rock and Blair, I think I posted this shortly after we lost the referendum and I have every sympathy with their viewpoint, I wonder if any other country on earth would meekly accept like we have done that a huge immigrant population voted no and contributed massively to our defeat? There would be a massive public backlash in ANY other country and you are kidding yourselves if you don’t agree.I honestly think we MUST restrict the vote to have any chance of winning. Fuck this inclusive stuff. We can be inclusive after we win. It’s turkeys voting for Xmas if we don’t.
heedtracker,
“It is down the leafy drives of Scotland where NO won.”
The vast majority of the English live on those “leafy drives”.
Nothing wrong with that, just saying.
Blair Paterson and others
As I said earlier, this is a tricky one. I think defending liberal pluralism in Scotland (by supporting indy), can avoid using exclusionary and authoritarian methods itself, if sensible procedures are established and adhered to, next time.
So international observers and a legit process are a must, to protect everyone’s rights.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/negritude/#NegPol
We can’t let the British state run the next indi ref. That’s like pulling the goalie. Postal votes to Newcastle, Ruthie knowing the result after 10pm, black dodgy cabbies collecting ballot boxes, Glasgow highest yes vote but 10% lower turnout than anywhere else. Small acts of fraud buy you several percentages.
“There would be a massive public backlash in ANY other country and you are kidding yourselves if you don’t agree.I honestly think we MUST restrict the vote to have any chance of winning. Fuck this inclusive stuff. We can be inclusive after we win. It’s turkeys voting for Xmas if we don’t.”
Backlash against who? You just completely er, debunked numbnuts up there’s,
Most of the folks on here are more driven by hatred of England than by wanting real independence.
Sad really.
So well done you.
Rock said..
The only thing that is relevant is that Scotland is still effectively a colony of England and we want to get out of that situation as quickly as possible.
That’s two things..
If we were a colony of England, we’d have been fully assimilated and adopted English Law a century ago.
Getting ‘out’ of a tricky situation shouldn’t be rushed, lest we move to an insular protectionist alternative.
I don’t want independence so that we can raise the draw bridge.
Growing apart from England and BRITISHNESS comes first.
Let them hate, let us not.
England’s trick, and it’s undoing, was to invent ‘BRITISHNESS’.
That was meant as Black Cabs…not black cabbies…ahem.
Pete @ 23:24:
Oooh, you mean those 18th-century political entities that gave us loads of local European wars and two world wars and untold amounts of suffering and destruction? By a voluntary association exercising a little civilised moderation, without force. Tut, tut, how dare it?
Well, you’re a fake supporter of independence then. The whole point of independence is – surprise, surprise – to give the people of Scotland and no-one else the right to choose their own future in all its aspects. At their own time and choosing.
But to hell with that, instead you prefer to defer to the Great Brutish State because on this narrow matter you would rather have it enforce your minority preference rather than defer to the clearly-demonstrated will of the people of Scotland.
Cringe. Fake.
joemcg
I did issue a warning.
Fuck off.
@ Pete
I voted Yes in 2014..
Did ye aye
Rock,
I walked miles delivering WBB and canvassing before the 2014 ref.
I can assure you there were many streets – non leafy-drives and mostly still ‘cooncil hooses’ where NO was the order of the day and funnily enough, just saying, quite a lot of them also supported Rangers!
I was never verbally( or physically) abused, people were polite but determined NO’s. Plus, it wasn’t just English households that were sporting Union flags. yES THERE WERE no voters in the leafy-lanes but surprisingly also a LOT of YES voters.
Can we realistically generalise?
“I honestly think we MUST restrict the vote to have any chance of winning.”
Dinnae worry, maun. Trump isnae getting a vote. Or Farage (uless he diecides to move up here). Only those who live and work in Scotland will get a vote in i2. As it should be.
[Sorry–but we’re no’ rising tae yer pish]
Robert J. Sutherland AT 8.29
Have you any explanation how five areas in Scotland had a postal vote take up of over 96%. This quite frankly is impossible.
The UK postal voting system is “a recipe for fraud” as the EU said in 2007 and such has been repeated by many observers.Access to council computers gives any unscrupulous agency complete access to the whole process.It is dangerously unsecure. There would be no need whatsoever for any interference at the count stage.
I don’t think the problem was non Scots voting. Most ethnic citizens voted roughly in line with what all of us did. We have one large ethnic group determined to hold Scotland back namely the English. So that 5% shift needs to come from them somehow. I suspect many moderate English people are pro Eu. I think the ground has shifted. We just need to get these Brexit bams to come back to Indi. It’s like Scotland getting eliminated on goal difference. We always find another way to lose.
Sorry – ignore capital letters – long day.
Joemcg,
“I honestly think we MUST restrict the vote to have any chance of winning. Fuck this inclusive stuff. We can be inclusive after we win.”
Totally agree.
Without restricting the vote to those with some genuine connection with Scotland, we are not going to be independent any time soon.
A precedent was set in the UK independence referendum.
The UK voted for independence, only because EU nationals living here were denied the vote.
The words in 1793 of Thomas Muir of Huntershill, kirk elder with a Degree in Divinity then Advocate and deported for sedition to Australia are particularly apposite today.
“We do not, we cannot, consider ourselves as mowed and melted down into another country”
He escaped Australia, fought with American rebels against the Brits in America , lost a large part of his face when hit in battle against the British navy when aboard a French ship on his way back to Europe and died a hero of the French republic in France.
Hardly any Scots have heard of him.
Like Baird, Hardie and Wilson, executed for “Scotland free or a desert”in 1820, Thomas Muir has been erased from our history.
& to add Brexit changes everything.
Some people I know who were totally against independence are thinking long & hard about this now.
This is the game changer not what country is on ones birth certificate.
This is prompted by catching up late on today’s posts. I for one, along with all the independence supporters that I know well, reject out of hand ‘blood and soil’ nationalism – and therefore I deplore the (casual) use of the term ‘native’ Scot in this context. Having just left two enquiring English folk, who are recent “incomers’ to Scotland, with much to think about concerning Scotland’s future, place of birth should have no bearing if people wish to come and live, work, commit to this country. All who choose to stay or come to live and work here are just ‘Scots’ in my view.
It is in my view important always to differentiate clearly and carefully a commitment to this principle from what might be sensible electoral rules which help to ensure that a inclusive approach is not open to major, widespread abuse. But in framing these rules, we need to avoid what I would characterise as the ‘stench’ of blood and/or soil nationalism.
Croompenstein says:
27 January, 2017 at 11:50 pm
@ Pete
I voted Yes in 2014..
Did ye aye
Pete has displayed rather good trollsmanship on WoS.
Robert,
On the contrary, I believe Occam’s Razor would bolster my argument as it is quite simple.
Ask yourself only two questions regarding interference by the State.
Could they?
Would they?
It is not complicated in the least when you consider that it would be seen as a dereliction of duty by the British secret services if they didn’t Interfere. Their own websites say as much.
So no, I can’t accept that it would be difficult in the least.
Of course, we continue to garner votes as normal, the more the better.
Robert, of course, I could be wrong but the essential message to take with you is, what if I’m right?
Jings. Went over to the Express for some fun as Wings is getting heavy going, but sadly nothing suitable, I did notice though an article saying that buried in the explanatory notes for the Brexit Bill was that the UK would be leaving Euratom. Confirmed it here:
http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-confirms-plans-to-exit-euratom/
and here (also it’s on IB Times)
http://electricityinfo.org/news/euratom-27-1-17/
Some will be delighted as it might slow down new nuclear, but it also affects the inspectorate, and sad for me, could affect the fusion lab at Culham where I was acquainted a bit long ago with a senior guy (space project). The thing is fusion, with a good chance of the first positive generation in around 2050, is relatively very clean, and could provide future baseload generation – virtually unlimited in time. The Yanks didn’t go with it, so if Culham and ITER are affected, it’s bad news.
One of the hidden consequences of Brexit 🙁
Big Jock,
“We have one large ethnic group determined to hold Scotland back namely the English. So that 5% shift needs to come from them somehow. I suspect many moderate English people are pro Eu. I think the ground has shifted.”
For the vast majority of the English, England will come before the EU in any Scottish independence referendum.
The 5% will come from:
a. The working class almost Yes voters who were scared to death into voting No at the last minute by the likes of Asda.
b. Prospective Yes voters scared from registering to vote by the likes of Glasgow City Council threatening to chase them for Polltax arrears.
c. Reaching out further to the most deprived.
Pampering the British nationalist elderly and the selfish middle classes (the vast majority of the English fall into these classes) will be as useless as it was last time.
Along with the dubiousness of the postal vote there was also the video of piles of Yes votes in the No pile in my local town hall in Alloa, which was all over YouTube
Welcome to the year of the new happy 🙂
Fireworks!
Ah I see, the usual hand wringing and abuse if you say something even slightly controversial on this site. Pisses me off no end. Why are so many on here so self righteous? Don’t say you weren’t warned. I can almost guarantee we will be starting on at least minus 300,000 votes and it’s probably insurmountable. BTW don’t bother calling me a troll or a unionist because I slogged my guts out campaigning for yes for almost a year and have voted SNP for over 30 years.
Elizabeth Stanley,
“& again I say am I to be denied a vote in a country I choose to live in by an accident of birth?”
Yes, in all fairness, you should be, as the vast majority of your compatriots are a stumbling block against an ancient nation, treated as a colony by your motherland for more than 300 years, from regaining its independence and sovereignty.
You will be welcome to equal status under a written constitution in an independent Scotland.
Alan Mackintosh, I had a quick look at the graphs but I would need someone to explain it to me too.
Manandboy, I’m pretty sure there are less and less of us willing to give the British State the benefit of the doubt.
I’m flagging now and up early in the morning, goodnight all.
Elizabeth Stanley @ 23:38 (and everyone else caught up in this discussion),
Firstly, the discussion is mostly pointless because in this wonderful UK it’s WM that has the ultimate legal power to decide the form of voting any particular referendum must take. (Remember what the UKSC just decreed.) In the event last time, a mutually-satisfactory agreement was reached between each of the two governments and the Electoral Commission, and that was voted through WM, but that’s the fundamental truth. Another unpalatable democratic outrage perpetrated upon Holyrood, but there it is. Thanks to the SG, at least 16-17 year olds were able to participate. I for one was very pleasantly surprised at how they rose to the occasion.
Secondly, some poster in some earlier thread who seemed to be knowledgeable about the situation wrote that the SG was only able to select between a small number of pre-existing electoral formats. They couldn’t order “a la carte”. They chose the “local voting” model precisely because it was the most inclusive. (And in my opinion they were right to do so, since everyone’s future was at stake.) The same will likely apply in indyref2, except that we will have to be very vigilant for a Tory-dominated WM attempting to insert a quota “poison pill” like Labour did back in 1979.
Incidentally, WM chose differently for the EUref, disenfranchising 16-17 year olds whose future was at stake as much as anyone’s. A great way to teach them about democracy – not.
Joemcg
Scots are clearly not backlashers. Its that simple. And who against, your friends and family? Its just democratic process, in a northern European country, not Star Wars:D
Looks like a few distracters on here tonight.
Eliza Stanley, new here? We try to use intelligent debate to discuss matters here. It’s what the pro independence people prefer. This is not the Graun or the bbc or the Torygraph, where commenters just spout false indignation, falsely proclaim discrimination and then get defensive and offensive when challenged about their own bigotry. We are on our guard for false flag stuff, even when it comes to comments here.
We are pretty much all on the same side here. Few, if any, are anti english, but it is common for us to question and challenge the english establishment, particularly those unionists in WM who do Scotland great harm and have been doing so for a very long time.
Ah, let’s see what WoS brings us in the next couple of days. A cartoon or three, and some great,
intelliigent and witty commenters to lighten the seriously fckd up predicament that we find ourselves in.
Telling someone to ‘fuck off’, well, I think we can rise above such conversation stalling stuff. This is not twitter, lolz.
Joemcg,
“Why are so many on here so self righteous?”
They are more interested in their own agendas and egos than Scottish independence.
Don’t let them get away with it. Challenge them at every opportunity. This blog doesn’t belong to them.
When they use the “t” word against you, be sure that you have won the argument.
What a load of shite this crap is, classifying the “English” in Scotland.
I too say “FUCK OFF”.
Joemcg,
“Why are so many on here so self righteous?”
They are like those war mongering bleeding heart liberals at The Guardian.
Not to the English I hasten to add, but to the divisive twatting trolls whose only purpose is division. I say again “FUCK OFF”.
yesindyref2 @ 00:09,
Hmmm, I did wonder about that. Another valuable stake in the future wantonly sacrificed on the altar of shallow political expediency.
(And I don’t say that merely because I spent five very happy years working at Culham, honest! =grin=)
heedtracker-it’s not rocket science man! Backlash against who?! Our southern friends would not be getting a vote in Indy ref 2. No danger. Reverse it for example say a huge German immigrant population denied the Dutch their independence. Would they just shrug and say oh we must be inclusive, it’s only fair… it’s laughable.
Scotland has the power now: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-cQN
Robert peffers..’historian’?,…sorry I might be in a minority on here, but cut and paste ‘history’ from a Fife Public library doesn’t merit the description of’ history’. The Jacobite risings through the late 1600s and the final one of 1745 were not supported by the Scottish lowlands, which were overwhelmingly Presbyterian. Bonnie Charlie’s army was mainly Catholic and Episcopalian highlanders with a sprinkling of N.E. lowlanders.
At Culloden, there were four Scottish regiments on the Government/English side plus the presbyterian Campbells of Argyll. When Charlie’s army went south via Glasgow and Dumfries they received almost no volunteers….why?..these towns had experienced widespread rioting and burning of the Act of Union only 38 years earlier….well because of bigoted dislike of both the ‘highland host’, which had been used to harry the covenanters during the ‘killing times’1680-1688 in the SW, and the Catholic allegiance of the Stewarts.
The Claim of Right and Articles of Grievance, a blatantly anti-catholic document that Peffers dribbles on about, led to King Billy and Queen Mary being offered the crown of Scotland as ‘co-regents’
1689 ‘The said Estates of the Kingdome of Scotland Doe resolve that William and Mary King and Queen of England France and Ireland Be and be Declared King and Queen of Scotland To hold the Crowne and Royall Dignity of the said Kingdome of Scotland and that ‘no roman catholic ‘could hold the crown’ and the ‘royal prerogative’ could not overrule the law and parliament’s consent was required to levy taxes.
Yet Mr. P states :’
So the legal situation in 1688 was that the two Kingdoms were still legally independent but England assumed that England’s imported monarchy were also monarchs of Scotland and were still calling the Scots who would not accept them as rebels against the English Monarchy.’
No, the two parliaments were independent, but Scotland’s decided to throw its lot in with the House of Orange, and handed its crown over to the two usurpers. Which suited the Presbyterian majority. Unpalatable, but the unvarnished truth…not some Brigadoon fantasy spun from the pages of the Peffers bumper book of Scottish haunmade tales.
Scotland’s divisions were exploited from then on as King Billy and his Hanoverian successors spirited away our reality as a ‘kingdom’ and within a decade and a half bribed our parliament into its present invisible status.
Question: if we are still a kingdom….who is the current legal heir?….Betty Saxe Coburg Gotha and her brood?…and do we even care? Maybe some of auld Bob’s acolytes..KI etc. can come uith an original answer instead of hanging off his sheuchs.
Told to fuck off again AND being called a troll. As Rock said it’s not YOUR forum. I’m entitled to an opinion as much as you. I thought it was only yoons that had to resort to abuse. Obviously not. Ever thought YOU were the embarrassment to the yes campaign? No?
Meg merrilees,
“Rock,
I walked miles delivering WBB and canvassing before the 2014 ref.
I can assure you there were many streets – non leafy-drives and mostly still ‘cooncil hooses’ where NO was the order of the day and funnily enough, just saying, quite a lot of them also supported Rangers!”
You misunderstood what was being discussed.
It was not me but “heedtracker” who posted:
“It is down the leafy drives of Scotland where NO won.”
To which I replied:
“The vast majority of the English live on those “leafy drives”.”
Your comment should have been addressed to “heedtracker”, not me.
Unless you met loads of English living on “non leafy-drives and mostly still ‘cooncil hooses’”
Lochside,
“Maybe some of auld Bob’s acolytes..KI etc. can come uith an original answer instead of hanging off his sheuchs.”
Hope you have prepared yourself well for a vicious attack by his sycophants.
Joemcg
Its just not going to happen. Once again, Scotland is a modern northern European country, currently run by its neighbour. Barely 10% Scots electorate English. Its up to the Scottish majority ref 2, like it was ref 1. Ref 3, who knows.
What is possible is that mainland EU voters might get ref 2 excluded, by Westminster, just like they did in England. But there is no backlash, anywhere. And that’s a good thing.
There is going to be all the EU political backlash you want with Brexit because it must be hard to watch two neo fascists like Trump and May mincing about in Washington this week, from Brussels. Fcuk knows it was bad enough here, trapped under them as we are.
@Robert J. Sutherland
AB his initials. Solar system planet seeding, I moved around too much and never found the time or stable facilities to get around to it – and pubs and other things were a distraction …
Got blethering to a Dutch group in Austria while working in Germany. Turned out they were fusion scientists at Eindhoven – and there was a 2 year Master’s there. Typical for the UK – has an underinvested facility with great people and gets nothing for it, not even a degree course. What a waste.
heedtracker,
“Joemcg
Its just not going to happen. Once again, Scotland is a modern northern European country, currently run by its neighbour.”
Which other “modern northern European country” is run by its neighbour?
The likes of Finland and Norway became independent 100 years ago.
Part of Ireland too managed to break free from the clutches of the English. Did the English get to vote there?
Its just not going to happen doesn’t mean it should not happen.
It is an injustice no other “modern northern European country” would tolerate.
Even “modern northern European” regions are fighting injustices, for example Catalonia and Flanders, let alone an ancient nation trying to be free from colonial rule after more than 300 years.
Tresemme has already promoted UK trade with the US, modelling all her best Matalan gear!
Rock, joemcg..
I appreciate your need to nudge and develop arguments to the right of politics.
We are, after all fighting a deeply sinister, highly motivated, right wing establishment..
But…Self righteous? Moi? Wingers? Of course we are.
I will defend ‘equality’ DURING Scotland’s struggle and then beyond.
Sideline your values and lose your identity if you want.
Rock -apologies
Heedtracker – Please read the above comment @11.52 as addressed to you.
But I maintain, realistically, can we generalise?
We are told that the current support for Indyref2 is only 22% amongst women aged 60+
How many of those NO voting women live down the leafy-lanes? I can think of 5 immediately out of 8 who are NO voters and who don’t live in those areas.
But does this help?
We have to just get out there and try to spread the word to as many people as we can, get the facts out and start seriously thinking about the approaching council elections. You can bet that the Tank Commander and Kez are making plans as we speak. Let’s look forward because time is flying by.
@Meg merrilees
Ban them all I say. Just have a quick vote at the next Wings get together, or in the YES bar, and there you go, job done.
Rock says:
28 January, 2017 at 12:47 am
heedtracker
It is an injustice no other “modern northern European country” would tolerate.
Its not injustice for gawds sake. Its democracy in one nation state, the UK. Your logic dictates that the near on one million Scots in England cant vote down there. You are an absurdist Rock. If you live and work in Scotland you can vote. Modern northern Europe democracy.
But now you’re doing the agent provocateur thing Rock. Well good luck with all that jazz but you’re on your own, to the barricades.
yesindyref2,
It was a long time ago, just when JET was getting started, so he may possibly have been after my time. It was also a non-trivial outfit back then.
Underinvestment – I know exactly what you mean. The same old same old. The place was badly hacked up as part of Thatcher’s privatisation drive, but fortunately (for me that is, but not for those who remained) I had departed before then and came home to pastures new.
My last word on this, and think about it, we are allowing up to 500,000 citizens of a country who have ruled us and basically been our overlord for over 300 years to vote on OUR independence! Do you realise how crazy that is? It’s lunacy. We are our own worst enemies and being told to fuck off because i don’t agree with it is not on.
@Robert J. Sutherland
This was, mmm, mid-70s. Intro was via BIS in connection with Daedalus! http://www.bis-space.com/what-we-do/projects/project-daedalus
——————-
Anyways, back to normal:
“Plan for a new Scottish pound ‘likely’ to be recommended by SNP Growth Commission, insider says”
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15054500.Plan_for_a_new_Scottish_pound__likely__to_be_recommended_by_SNP_Growth_Commission__insider_says/
RT disparaging about intolerant leftist factions in Europe tonight.
Remind me, which media is most imbalanced again?
hahaha This thread is now very funny and is not the first time that it’s happened.
The two main antagonists are the same as usual Rock and Joemcg. You know why though eh? They have exactly the same opinion or they are one and the same person.
I don’t get that at all, I have absolutely no problem if they disagree with my personal opinion but why Rock do you attack Rebert Peffers non stop in your posts.
I have no time whatever for either of you, I’ll give you your due you’ve always been the sa me. Hateful and spiteful, divisive and derogatory. That’s your style, old timers are used to it and ignore your rants.
Is there really no compassion in your hearts? LOL.
Here’s a wee example of Rock’s sleekitness:
“Because unlike others posting here, I don’t have any agenda of my own.”
Aye you fucking well do, you are forever telling everyone that “they shouldn’t read the National”. That’s an agenda.
You Joemcg don’t want English people in Scotland voting, you also have a bee in your bonnet about pensioners voting.
“Our southern friends would not be getting a vote in Indy ref 2”
All I can say is thank fuck you two are not the majority in this forum or this country.
Who’s KI?
Just checking, don’t want to assume you mean masel’ Lochside?
If ye do, well firstly thanks for the history lesson, always open to further understanding of our constitutional situation from way back when.
If I’m an acolyte because I enjoy Mr Peffers’ comments so be it Lochside, I don’t really know a lot of Scotland’s history and find Robert’s posts informative and engaging, I don’t recall at any point ever having a conversation with him about history?
I may very well have taken on board the very salient points regarding the forming of the Union, I don’t doubt I’m alone in that regard. And also the history behind the eventual democratic deficit that sprung from the unequal sizes of our polity’s in the modern era, but not sure that makes me an ‘acolyte’, maybe it does *shrug*.
Who cares indeed? You seem to want to make the point to him that he is wrong, so you care. So I suppose we’ll see if he takes you up on the points that you have raised in terms of historical accuracy.
I have no idea Lochside, and am a wee bit perplexed as to why you have ‘singled’ me out, if indeed your are referring to me, on the back of your upset about what Robert Peffers has stated regarding Scotland’s history?
————————–
Rock? In your response tae Lochside, you suggested a ‘vicious attack’ by his ‘sycophants’ would be forth coming. Can you furnish me with the evidence that supports your claim specifically related to ‘KI’ where if I am indeed who Lochside was referring to, I have ever viciously ‘attacked’ any person on Wings, directly related to the point that Lochside is making with respect to Mr Peffers input on Scotland’s history on these threads? Ta.
Not saying I haven’t, but would like the evidence nonetheless.
@K1
Wouldn’t sweat about it. Well I wouldn’t anyway.
@ Joemcg
You are proposing discriminating against people on the basis of something they did not choose and cannot change.
Other discriminations of that nature tend to be frowned upon.
You hope, presumably, that such a restriction would lead to a different outcome in a second referendum. What if it didn’t? What if it didn’t because people hadn’t worked on converting their sisters, for instance?
As Margo MacDonald pointed out – one convert each and we’re there.
Och I know Thpnr, but I do like people to be accurate if they are casting aspersions, I’m vicious like that.
Good grief!
I had never EVER heard of this Martin Offiah bloke until now. Apparently he is an English rugby player.
His experience and qualifications as a political analyst are not very obvious at all, but:
“But I think, no one is really listening to Scotland. Really, are they?”
is just a bit interesting.
The sheer bloody arrogance!
https://caltonjock.com/2015/11/28/shameless-graeme-pearson-fronts-the-recently-formed-unionist-party-scotlandinunion-webpage-but-the-guy-is-a-joke-failure-and-opportunist/
I’m happy if we run the same voting franchise as before.
300 000 EU nationals live in Scotland.
They’ll not be abstaining or voting No this time.
Given that we were only 400 000 votes short last time – with Brexit, Trump and all those Westminster broken promises – with a decent campaign we should be able to more than make up the shortfall.
Perhaps that’s why Unionists are now surreptitiously proposing a change in voting franchise. Sheer blind panic!
Here’s a pretty easy article about pegged versus floating currency
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/020603.asp
Another one to look at, if the new currency starts pegged:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_board
Which gives no real control over monetary policy, but gives time and stability to get started, though I’d expect a fairly quick and smooth transition to a floating currency. But hey, what do I know?
@K1 “but I do like people to be accurate if they are casting aspersions”
🙂
Heidi and Spencer have just been evicted from the Big Brother house (OK – I don’t know who the hell they are either, but…). Maybe they could lead the Branch. Poor Kezia Dugdale is leaving soon, isn’t she? The 86 members the SLab still have don’t like her.
A wee bit too ‘sneaky’ for me yesindyref2, if I have to guess what that last little one sentence quote that I directed to Thpnr in humour is about? Then I guess that you are trying to ‘infer’ that I have ‘cast aspersions’ about or toward you?
That’s a blatant falsehood, if indeed that is what your ‘meaning’ is yesindyref2?
I like straight forward communication yesindyref2, I couldn’t have been more explicit about what I was asking you about, and now your response several hours later is a ‘dig’ at me with a wee smiley face…seriously?
That’s unkind and a wee bit childish given that I went to some considerable lengths to explain where I was coming from and it certainly was not to ‘cast aspersions’ toward your good self.
So sad to see you react in this manner. 🙁
@Elizabeth Stanley and others
I am a daily reader of Wings but rarely post as every time I have ventured to do so I have felt there are folk out there whose main aim is to shoot me down in flames.
As a result of my Scottish father’s then posting in the RAF, I was born in England. His final posting (over which at that time a little more choice was allowed) was to an airfield in Scotland. We moved up here when I was almost 11.
My late primary, secondary and tertiary education all took place in Scotland and I worked here for the whole of my career. I am not a member of the SNP but I have voted for them for the whole of my adult life, as has my younger sister.
I admit my mother was English (and more stupid politically than anyone I have ever met). I have English friends who voted YES in 2014 and would do so again. One of them was a member of the SNP before I was even old enough to vote.
According to at least one person on here, my history should debar me from voting in IndyRef2. Quite what that would achieve, I fail to understand. I share Elizabeth Stanley’s anger.
Finally, please don’t expect me to come back on and engage in conversation – previous experiences have completely discouraged me. I shall continue to support the goal of independence in my own quiet but persistent way.
(soz for length of post folks in advance, just scroll past if ye cannae be arsed 😉 )
For Blair, Joe and Rock,
Let’s speculate:
Project fear would decimate the support of any soft Yessers and Noers on the back of excluded English nationals. It would destroy Scottish independence.
Anti-English would be the cry over and over again, they’d ram it down our throats cause it would be true…that’s what would happen.
But naw, never mind the fallout…let’s do that, everybody ‘secretly’ thinks that’s the answer to our inability to win a referendum on the back of the democratic deficit and legitimate claim to run our own country by having the people we would like to run our government rather than who England votes for every time we have a general election.
Let’s start by scouring the electoral register:
Where were you born? England you say: Naw your’e the ones keeping us under the cosh. Next!
So we wipe the 300,000 English folk aff the electoral register. Job done. Next!
How long have you lived here. 5 years you say? Prove it? Ocht yer just short by a day. Naw, you don’t meet our criteria. Next!
So we wipe another say 50,000 aff the register. Job done. Next!
You were born in Scotland ye say? But your parents moved down south when you were 2 but ye came back when you were 16 and now you’re 19. Naw, you haven’t been resident long enough.
So we wipe another 2,000 to 30,000 aff the register. Job done. Next!
Have we got enough yet? Have we got rid of enough of them ‘foreigners’ yet?
Well have we?
Will we now start on the EU nationals and start the cull of them. After they have just been excluded from the EU vote and our FM stated that they would be safe in Scotland. We will now tell them that they do not have a vote either in Scotland’s second referendum on independence? Just like Davie Cameron did, cause he’s our ‘role model!’?
Will that be enough?
Now, what about those pesky No voters? Y’know, the Scots born natives, how do we get them to vote for independence?
When all the news on their preferred choice of ‘media platform’ which informs them about the world, will be reminding them day in and day out of how the ‘dark’ nationalistic core of Scottish independence has shown it’s ugly face and that ‘any cost’ was worth the price to ‘ensure’ Scotland’s independence?
How do we ‘sell’ that?: Afterwards we’ll be this beacon of social inclusiveness and equality and we’ll write a beautiful constitution declaring we’re the fairest and most equal of them all?
All those English folk, all those EU nationals, will still want to live here and feel so welcome after we told them they are not regarded as part of this inclusive caring country by disenfranchising them? That our FM clearly lied though her teeth about our commitment to protect their rights on the back of the EU vote?
We’ll be on such friendly terms with our neighbours, I can’t foresee any issues arising due to the ‘means’ we employed to ‘ensure’ our ends, can you?
After we’ve achieved our independence and been universally painted as a pariah ‘xenophobic’ nation who stooped as low as a bunch of Tory fuckers in Westminster to ensure they got the result they wanted by barring all the groups that could have swayed the vote a different way, then and only then will Scotland walk tall and equal amongst all the other nations on the planet?
Her reputation as a mature democracy with the most educated electorate in Europe, with a long standing political tradition as an internationalist outward looking nation will forever remain unimpugned in the eyes of world?
And if at the end of all that Scotland still votes No, who you going to blame then?
————————————————————————————
Let’s face reality:
Luckily our government won’t be going down this road, ever. So there is absolutely no point in going on and on about it, it’s not going to happen:
Proposed technical changes from the 2014 referendum procedures
Eligibility to vote
2.11 Eligibility to vote in the referendum will be the same as for Scottish local government and Scottish Parliament elections. The franchise for these elections most closely reflects residency in Scotland and has been chosen for that reason. The choice of this franchise reflects the internationally accepted principle that the franchise for constitutional referendums should be determined by residency and the Scottish Government’s view that sovereignty lies with the people of Scotland.
The following groups of people will therefore be entitled to vote in the referendum (if they are not subject to any legal incapacity to vote):
• British citizens resident in Scotland
• Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland
• citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in
Scotland
• members of the House of Lords resident in Scotland
• Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the Armed Forces
or with Her Majesty’s Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.
2.12 With the passing of the Scottish Elections (Reduction of Voting Age) Act 2015, it is no longer necessary to make specific provision for 16 and 17 year-old voters as they are now included in the existing register of local government electors. The draft bill therefore disapplies provisions in the 2013 Act that relate solely to 16 and 17 year-old voters and replaces them with references to the relevant provisions in the 2015 Act. The effect of these changes is that 16 and 17 year-olds will, as was the case in 2014, be able to vote in this referendum if they have reached the age of 16 by the day of the poll.
Absent Voting
2.13 The draft bill contains provisions on absent voting (postal and proxy voting) which are in line with accepted practice at other elections. The bill includes a requirement that the person who is to be appointed as a proxy for another voter must themselves be registered to vote. This change reflects practice at other elections and is designed to ensure that a proxy’s identity has been confirmed using the individual electoral registration process. (See the modification to paragraph 5 of schedule 2 of the 2013 Act).
2.14 The draft bill restricts the access to emergency proxy votes to electors
who require it on the grounds of a disability, occupation, service or employment, where the grounds have arisen after the cut-off date for a normal proxy application. This reflects current practice at other elections and addresses concerns from stakeholders following the 2014 referendum, that the 7,770% increase in emergency proxy applications (6,690 compared to 85) compared to the European Parliamentary elections held in June 2014 caused excessive administrative burdens. (See the modification to paragraph 7 of schedule 2 of the 2013 Act).
2.15 The draft bill proposes changes to the checking of postal votes statements. These require that the personal identifiers on all postal voting statements are checked. While the statutory requirement at the 2014 referendum was that not less than 20% of personal identifiers were to be checked, in line with normal practice at other elections the counting officers checked all personal identifiers. The bill therefore proposes to change the legislation to require 100% checking and bring the legislation into line with previous practice and accepted practice at other elections. (See the modifications to paragraphs 35 to 39 of schedule 2 of the 2013 Act).
Polling and Count Staff
2.16 In schedule 3 of the 2013 Act, rules 10 and 29, which set out rules relating to the appointment of polling and count staff, are amended by the draft bill so that the counting officer “must not knowingly” appoint or employ anyone who has been involved in campaigning during the referendum. This change reflects recommendation 19 of the Electoral Commission’s report on the 2014 referendum.
Verification Statements
2.17 Schedule 3 of the 2013 Act, rule 30, is a changed provision that would require the counting officer to supply a copy of the verification statement (which confirms that the number of ballots counted equals the number recorded) to any counting agent on request. The provision of copies of the verification statement is normal practice at most other elections and this change reflects current best practice at election counts.
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0050/00507743.pdf
There was a widely held consultation on these draft proposals that closed on the 11th January 2017. You’ll no doubt note the changes and the comments related to some changes that reflect some of the concerns people have expressed regarding proxy and postal voting?
In essence some rules have been tightened on the back of some serious anomalies and our government has recognised that.
I can only presume as you all feel so strongly about the points you raised throughout this entire thread, that you all submitted your views to the Scottish government regarding your objections on the grounds of English nationals, non birth Scots, students, people wi holiday homes etc etc
I’ve not doubt if you did that the Scottish government duly noted your concerns. I note from the excerpts that I have posted above, from the draft consultation paper, that they too feel as I do that best practice is to include all those who live and work in Scotland as participants in Scotland’s future and have not disenfranchised anyone on the grounds of nationality.
Have a good sleep dudes, keep up the guid work of alienating potential Yes voters wi yer BS* schtick.
*BullShit.
@K1
Jings, it was humour, nothing more.
Funny humour given as I said, the quite exhaustive points I raised with what you said, to ascertain what your comments ‘meant’ with regard to Blair’s comments? Jings man…ye didn’t even have the good manners to acknowledge never mind respond to what I actually posted tae you directly.
Where was the ‘humour’ in reposting ‘that’ particular comment yesindyref2? As I said, I had to guess, because it sure as heck wasn’t on the back of any ‘obvious’ humorous back and forth between you and I, was it?
Laters…way tae bed now. Night night.
It’s very late.
To all the anti English voters in Scotland……
Fuck off.
@ Stuckdoonhame.
This place below the line has its moments, and sometimes you need a thick skin, and I’m not apologising for that, however I would hope some folks on here might appreciate that England is not the enemy, nor are the English, and when we imply otherwise we put the same fears and misgivings into their minds as Brexit puts into the minds of foreign nationals now uncertain about their future and afraid to answer their phone or read a book on the train because they might be recognised as foreign.
It’s the same fear and anxiety.
I also understand the frustration left in the wake of 2014 that on multiple levels that a perception endures about electoral jiggery pokery; things like second home owners being registered to vote twice, postal ballots, “rent a crowd” Unionists being bused up from the south etc. Unfortunately that is in the nature of cheating. When you get cheated over one thing, the immediate question becomes how much have you been cheated by? You here tales about toff students in Edinburgh and St Andrews, or hot spots of Unionism around military bases or oil areas with English concentrations. Taken altogether it feeds paranoia; we’ve been cheated once, let’s be sure it can’t happen again.
I would say to folks like Stuckdoonhame to be patient. Yes, inflammatory and hostile notions might break the surface from time to time, but here in Scotland, I hope you also notice how little patience is given to such remarks, and furthermore, I hope you will find no semblance of bigotry or intolerance in the instruments and attitudes of the Scottish state. It is not a mainstream opinion.
When people talk about restricting the voting rights of the English, for a brief moment, I smile because what they are really saying is restricting the votes of No voters. Which isn’t really practicable or correct, but hardly thought crime for a Yes voter.
There is another factor too, and one that does peturb me too, and that is the disconnect between the Unionist votes and the dismal ability of Unionism to mobilise a grassroots support. They cannot fill a hall, they need sheepdogs to round up stragglers so their numbers don’t look thin in a photo. What gives? A Unionist body of opinion which votes for Unionism but won’t campaign for it??? In moments of doubt, you wonder whether their majority really exists or whether it’s as false and contrived as their photo-ops. And if it’s a cheat, then how is it achieved. But that road leads to paranoia and madness.
There is a change however. I never realised the extent to which Westminster and England attitudes towards Scotland differ from Scotland’s attitudes towards them. In Scotland, we see our Independence as a great tsunami that will purge the world of British horribleness. The English, and the English Supreme Court, and the English BBC, and English Channel 4 and Channel 5, see Scottish affairs as a drama in the goldfish bowl on the sideboard. I think there is a disconnection there, because I think a lot of Scots think their own political affairs are a tsunami in a goldfish bowl too.
Next time Scotland’s Independence is up for grabs, I hope and believe their dull complacency will be properly shattered, a level of awareness which YES2014 never achieved.
I have 4 English friends here where I live in my leafy suburb, all ardent YES supporters, yet I have, 2 sisters and a brother living in London, Scots born and bred, all vehemently opposed to Scottish Independence (even after all that has happened since 2014).
We need to convince people of the arguments as simply as we can – currency, Trident etc. and we must accept that we did not adequately do this last time. Blaming others purely on the basis of their nationality is not only a cop-out, but is naked bigotry. Win the arguments and you will win their votes.
@Ambrose Harper
About half of my wee black books kindly paid for by Graf Midgehunter – a double delivery – went in small bundles to (YES) English people to give to their friends or family. One of the most effective weapons against the Unionist activists’ attempts to smear us as being anti-English, is English for YES, but also those not belonging to any YES group.
Breeks – good post.
Let 2014 be a lesson to us all. The grassroots movement was simply amazing. I personally was caught up in some kind of euphoria and dismissed the shite coming from the NO campaign as simply laughable. (I was in complete denial that NO would win)
We had 5 types of no voters: Self interest, gullible, ignorant (of facts), cowards and our home grown ProudScot buts.
The ProudScot buts are never going to vote for independence, so don’t waste your time. Brexit will sort out the Self interest and move many of them over to indy.
Finally, indyref2 will need to have someone better at the helm of Yes Scotland and a MUCH better website.
No more talk of why we lost in 2014, let’s just concentrate on winning indyref2, if it takes another 2 years then so be it.
Don’t forget, this time we will have a lot more friends in high places supporting us. We will however need to be ready and as mentioned earlier Westminster cannot afford to lose Scotland and will continue to use every dirty trick in the book and then some.
Links
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/if-next-no-campaign-runs-anti.html
http://www.snp.org/7_ways_we_re_keeping_homes_affordable
http://www.alynsmith.eu/scotland_in_europe_update_january_27th_it_isn_t_a_bill_it_is_a_blank_cheque_to_the_tories
http://newsnet.scot/archive/british-position-political-powers-amounts-nauseating-mendacity/
https://twitter.com/FactCheckScot/status/825053186687922178
EXCLUSIVE: Dundee MP Chris Law cleared of financial wrongdoing after four-month police probe
http://archive.is/2SkC0
http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-confirms-plans-to-exit-euratom/
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/01/trump-wants-a-trade-deal-with-the-uk-that-he-can-cancel-in-30-days-what-a-joke/
http://www.thecanary.co/2017/01/27/dwp-approved-assessors-accused-lying-stop-disabled-people-getting-support-need/
Boris Johnson signals shift in UK policy on Syria’s Assad
http://archive.is/y6tbP
https://ansionnachfionn.com/2017/01/28/appeasing-the-orange-trumps-of-british-unionism-in-ireland-has-failed/
Trump’s erratic first week was among the most alarming in history
http://archive.is/4MJ1M
The group I am very concerned about for the next referendum are women aged 65+. This group, never strong for YES, has fallen even further away. We need to find out why and pronto, before it gets even worse. Sure it is but one group, but it is the one group, by turn out alone (and they will turn out) could sink us on the day unless we find out what is going on and do something about it.
Stuckdoonhame at 0324 am,
Please don’t conflate the daft opinions of a couple of the posters on this site, as meaning that is how all the posters think. They are well known for their behaviour, as has been pointed out repeatedly by others who post here regularly.
Having met many people from English Scots for YES during the referendum, I am very well aware that many, many English origin folks up here, are just as sick of Westminster mis-rule, as I am. Many of them campaigned harder than some Scots (cough, cough…).
Overseas territory
Falklands sovereignty dispute,
1764 – 1765 France
1765 – 1767 GB
1767 – 1811 Spain
1811 – 1829 None
1829 – 1831 United Provinces
1831 – 1832 US
1831 – 1833 Argentina Confederstion
1833 UK
1833 – 1834 None
1834 – 1982 UK
1982 Dispute – War
1984 – UK
Legal argument?
That the islands were Spanish in the 18C and Argentina inherited the claims to them when it became Independeny of Spain in 1816.
29th March 2016
The UN Commission on the limits of the Continental Shelf sidesd with Argentina earlier this month, ratifying the country’s 2009 report fixing the limits of its territory at 200 to 350 miles from it’s coast.
Foriegn Ministef Susana Malcorra said, ‘This reaffirms our sovereignty rights over the resources of our continental shelf’.
“This is an historic occasion for Argentina because we’ve made a huge leap in the demarcation of the exterior limit of our continental shelf”
Some rich fishing grounds.
“Elizabeth Stanley says:
28 January, 2017 at 4:24 am
It’s very late.
To all the anti English voters in Scotland……
Fuck off.”
That is a very unfair comment Elizabeth, I don’t see any anti English comments on this thread,
if it is a fact that the majority of English born people living in Scotland voted against independence then why would you as an independence supporter object to being excluded from voting if it give us a better chance of winning,
It’s all about winning and Indyref2 is far too important to care how we win and if BT don’t care how they win then why the hell should we
Please don’t misunderstand me I’m with you and most other posters on here about being inclusive I’m just not sure we can afford the luxury
Graeme
@Luigi
There’s a section of our society in the age group you mention that suffers from Jockhome Syndrome and they’ll always suffer from it
The fear of change to that group always means something worse, it’s the lack of confidence in our own ability to succeed at anything because all they’ve ever known is England runs everything even though they might never have liked it
I’m old enough to remember when that group as almost all groups ran from the cinema at the end of the film before the National Anthem was played because they didn’t want to stand for it and the only ones who were left standing were considered strange folk yet today that same age group are afraid of punishment from Westminster following a Yes vote and still don’t have any faith in “Nicola Sturgeon” or her team to get things right (How can a wee lassie from Ayrshire run a country)
These folk are among the last of the hold outs and are the ones who the Scottish media play to because it’s all they have left, but they are a powerful group because they vote and the media know it
Everything negative about Scotland they read or hear they believe
It’s like brain waterboarding eventually folk just say what you want them to
“Torture works” Donald Trump just said so, and he’s right because torture doen’t always have to be physically painful it’s not that difficult to wreck peoples heads and the media has been doing it for longer than all of us has been alive, their difficulty today is availability of credible information that easily debunks the nonsense they report but they have no other way of communicating to this group except the one they’re using and thats why bit by bit we’re winning
Scotland wont have to win the next referendum so much as England will lose it by their actions over the next 18 months then the SNP will drive a massive symbolic claymore from head to groin through their shenanigans and I believe totally that the outcome will be a substantial victory for Scotland
13 Sept 2012
‘ A census in Falklands Island has fund the fewer than a third of people consider themselves British. 59% say their national identity is ‘Falkland Islander’.
‘The Island themselves are notoriously non productive. It takes many thousands of hectares to keep a relatively modest flock of sheep going. There are no trees and most things have to be imported, The terrorial waters and exclusive economic zone of the Falklands covers some rich fishing grounds as well.’
‘2,500 pop. Aging population. Supported by £Billion from the UK. The over 65 year olds are increasing by 15% a year. Average income £20,000 a year. 1% unemployment. Most people have two or three jobs. 26 people are employed in Offshore Oil & Gas development. Oil & Gas a myth of a myth. Oil and Gas companies use it to get investment (fleece punters – shares peak then lose value). The Oil and Gas could not be substained with out co operation of the nearest land mass – Argentina.
‘The British Gov gave permission for the US to build a base on Diego Garcia excluding Chagossians’
The US (Reagan) did not support the British claim to the Falklands and tried to persuade Thatcher against military action. Instead to negotiate and settle the dispute through the UN. It has still not been resolved. The US were suggesting considering giving payment/settlement (not enough) to the islander. To agreed to repatriate those in favour to Scotland to farm sheep. In more advantageous favourable conditions. More sustainable. A negotiated settlement of co operation (UK – Argentina) for those who wished to stay on the islands. More people (Argentinian?) need to migrate to the islands for the community to continue and survive. The US documents/papers (time barred) were legitimately released recently. An ongoing, unresolved, situation. Costing £Billions,