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Wings Over Scotland

Biting bullets and chewing carpets

Posted on February 10, 2015 by

It’s somehow fitting that the lead article on Labour Hame today is headed by a lie before it even starts – an offer to join the party for £1 that takes you to a page where it actually costs five times as much.

(We’d noticed days ago that the much-hyped £1 offer had been quietly dumped after just a month, but it appears that nobody in the Scottish branch office thought to keep poor hapless Labour Hame in the loop.)


The article below, though, is remarkably even more dishonest.

Were we to pick out every disingenuous falsehood in it we’d need to quote you pretty much every line, and we haven’t got the time or the inclination. So we’ll just focus on a couple of the bigger ones.

“The SNP’s latest tagline, ‘Vote SNP get Scotland’, is designed to back up the idea that this election is about ensuring Scotland’s interests are represented at Westminster. But in fact every UK election ensures that, because it is the job of every elected MP, from whatever party, to represent the interests of their constituents.” 

That might be the theory, but it’s not how it works in practice. In reality all UK MPs obey their national party whips, and the UK parties make decisions about the whole UK. If it’s the case that a particular decision would benefit England at the expense of Scotland, then it’s a UK party’s duty to act in the interests of the greatest number of UK citizens – which invariably means England, whose residents outnumber Scots by more than 10 to one.

Scottish Labour MPs faced with such a scenario will always vote overwhelmingly with the whip, because their ultimate loyalty is to their (UK) party, not their constituents or to Scotland. They’re Labour first and Scottish second.

And how do we know that? Because Labour Hame itself told us so:


The idea that Scottish Labour MPs would ever stand up for Scotland’s interests at Westminster is simply – for perfectly legitimate political reasons – a barefaced lie. Hothersall admits it in his very next paragraph:

“Those MPs are chosen both to represent the constituencies which send them to Westminster, and to try to form, alongside MPs from across the UK, a united government to act in the best interests of the whole UK.

(Our emphasis.)

Over and over, the article emphasises, quite correctly, that it’s the duty of Scottish Labour MPs to act in the interests of the UK, not Scotland, because Labour (unlike the SNP) is a UK party, of which “Scottish Labour” is merely a trademark. And indeed, we go on to learn that Hothersall regards certain kinds of MP as nothing more than malicious saboteurs with no right to be in the UK parliament at all:

“But the SNP always has been, and remains, a party whose single objective is the splitting up of the United Kingdom. This makes them almost uniquely ill-qualified to participate in a UK government. You don’t put people who want to destroy something in charge of it.”

It’s an audacious attempt at cake-having and cake-eating. MPs democratically elected in Scotland are ordered to turn up at Westminster, but then told they’re inferior members who shouldn’t take part because they want to pursue the policies on which they were elected rather than bow meekly to someone else’s priorities.

The SNP’s 2015 manifesto hasn’t been published yet, but we’re going to boldly assert that it’ll contain dozens of policies and objectives which are not “the splitting up of the United Kingdom”. We’d be astounded if it called for another independence referendum. But to Labour, all goals are invalid if they aren’t Labour goals.

Hothersall demands that SNP MPs should be excluded from any possibility of participating in the government of the nation to whose parliament they are elected, while at the same time insisting that that same parliament represents the whole of the UK. By that tortured logic, every single Scot could vote SNP yet be forbidden any voice in the government of the country of which Scotland is allegedly an equal partner.

(The SNP can never win a UK majority, and so could never FORCE itself into power.)

The logically-inescapable conclusion of the article’s position is that it would be better to let the Tories in for another five years than work with the SNP to keep them out, yet Hothersall is too much of a coward to come out and say it directly, because it would expose the desperate fiction that Labour hate the Tories.

At heart, Labour don’t really like democracy – the stupid electorate keeps stubbornly returning governments which aren’t Labour. Even if the party wins the largest number of seats in May (which we doubt very much), it’s highly unlikely to do so on more than one-third of the vote. Yet the slightest suggestion that it might then compromise with anyone else is treated with outraged pique and a massive toys-out-of-the-pram sulk. It’s Labour’s way or nothing.

It’s a petulant, unedifying way for a would-be party of government to behave, but an enlightening glimpse into its mindset, and it may go some way to explaining why the UK public – let alone the Scottish one – is so reluctant to see Labour back in power.

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  1. 10 02 15 14:14

    Biting bullets and chewing carpets | Politics S...

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230 to “Biting bullets and chewing carpets”

  1. MajorBloodnok says:

    “At heart, Labour don’t really like democracy” – that’s exactly what I was thinking as I read through this. They don’t much like the truth either, although I’d challenge most of them to recognize it when it hit them on the back of the head.

  2. “Cake-having and cake-eating” is pretty much Hothersall’s modus operandi. He was trying it out on me earlier, when I posted an indyref graphic from one year ago. The audacity of him and his Labour ilk astounds me.

  3. Walter Scott says:

    It’s labour at it’s best. Jim Murphy usurping the words, Yes & Patriot for his shabby Orwellian purposes to this latest Liefest by the peoples party. Vote Murphy get Putin

  4. Geoff Huijer says:

    I wouldn’t give Hothersall the time of day.

    I salute your patience in ‘having’ to deal with him.

    As far as his article is concerned -> LOL!

  5. Dr Jim says:

    It’s those pesky voters again getting in the way of “True labroscopy”
    See what i did there..

  6. Macart says:

    Oh, its that Hothersall fella again.

    I suspect that Mr Hothersall and the truth, much like Labour and electoral democratic will, may be complete strangers to one another.

    In point of fact Mr Hothersall has made the SNPs case for them. The SNP are the only party who will have Scotland’s interests at heart in this partnership.

    As you highlighted yourself Rev:

    “ a united government to act in the best interests of the whole UK.“

    We may have voted to retain this partnership a while longer, but I’m looking for representation which will safeguard our interests whilst we’re there. That’s just not Labour. They have too many hats and faces for comfort.

    Be it business or politics, if you take on someone to safeguard your investment in a partnership, you’re kinda hoping he isn’t working for the other partner too and skimming cash from both.

  7. Lekraw says:

    I adore this site.
    Have been meaning to say that since long before the referendum.
    I admire everything you guys have done in the promotion of facts, reason and independence.
    I am really happy to see you continue after the result that deflated us all. We need intelligent, articulate writers like you to keep us going. We need you, you need us. Let’s keep the movement moving together.

  8. big jock says:

    Should their slogan not be:” British first ,Labour second and Scottish when it suits us”.

  9. Onwards says:

    Have they ruled out a red and blue Tory coalition yet?

  10. Senlac88 says:

    Perhaps we should all be writing to our local MPs and asking the direct question:

    “If YOU manage to hang onto your seat at the GE in May, but Scotland returns a majority of SNP MPs, will YOU support a coalition with the SNP if it is the only way to keep the Tories out?”

    If they reply Yes, then problem solved. Labour confirm a vote for the SNP will not let the Tories in.

    If they reply No, then we let all our local press and social media contacts know that our local MP has stated they would deliberately let the Tories in rather than allow the party Scotland votes for to have any influence.

    Win/win situation, no?

    (*of course we’ll undoubtedly get the waffle about “we’re not anticipating this scenario, the only way to guarantee to stop the Tories is to vote Labour” etc. but even that could prove useful if they avoid answering the question.)

  11. Grizzle McPuss says:

    So let me see. We must try and explain to the doubters within Scotland that apparently ONLY one particular party, and it has to be Unionist, can allegedly represent the interests of Scotland at WM? And our vote has to be Labour?

    And in 2010, when Scotland voted overwhelmingly (again) for Labour and got not just Tory (yet again), but Lib Dems as well?

    Yeah Duncan Hotdogseller, I can see that message working.

    Bad SNP, they only think of themselves

  12. Joemcg says:

    If Labour won every Scottish seat in May they would still lose the GE. Milliband is unelectable, even Lamont told him to bolt in September as he was losing the negative mob votes.

  13. Proud Cybernat says:

    When will they ever ‘get’ it? How long will it be before they realise that their twisting and contorting of facts into their own perverted view of the world will win over very few? When will Labour realise that their constant, constant, constant, constant lying is turning people away from them in droves.

    Try telling the TRUTH you bunch of fecking half-wits and maybe then you will have something solid to build on. The people of Scotland are not remotely as daft as you take them to be–YOU, Labour, are the idiots for even thinking that.

    It is YOUR blatant barrage of lie after lie after lie after lie that will be your undoing in May. And for that you will so thoroughly deserve it.

    Fecking STOP IT. You too BBC fecking Scotland. You too Daily Redcoat. We, the people, are onto the lot of you.

  14. heedtracker says:

    He’s a Labour our way or you’re a deluded fool zealot. If your argument is built on lies and deceit, it’s not a very good one.

  15. David Stevenson says:

    Labour were apparently pushing their £1 membership in Cambuslang leas than a fortnight ago. The campaign team amounted to the local MP, MSP, a cooncillor and one civilian (plus whoever was behind the camera; probably another councillor). The campaign “team” is reduced to people who rely on getting elected for their income.

  16. Ali says:

    We saw the petulant sulk in 2010. On a point of order though – you write “all goals are invalid if they aren’t Labour goals”, whereas even if goals ARE Labour goals they are rendered invalid if they are also SNP goals.

  17. Cath says:

    They must have heard you. It’s now changed to “join for just £5 a year”

  18. manandboy says:

    I know it’s a little out of season, but,
    when my dog poohs on my lawn when it is covered in leaves
    it is very difficult to find and pick up.

    Labour have so much shit lying around,
    if people could see it they would be disgusted
    and turn away.

    So McTernan scatters all the ‘leaf-litter’ type stories
    he can drum up with his team
    and scatters it across the media ‘lawn’ every day –
    to hide Labour’s shit.

    Distort reality – fools the elderly every time.

  19. Kenny says:

    I posed a couple of hypotheticals to Duncan in the comments on that post. His best response was “I can’t fault your maths but oh look a squirrel.”

  20. BrianW says:

    Drunken Haversack strikes again with his hapless ill thought out ramblings..

    These articles that he writes or anyone writes to put on the web site..I’m sure they’d all be vetted first to ensure they reflect “Ukok Labour Thinking” before seeing the light of day in print? If that’s the case then this has not only passed the seal of approval of the Numbskulls in Drunken Haversacks head, but all those in vetting.

  21. Murray McCallum says:

    To be fair, a promised £1.00 Scottish Labour Accounting Unit membership that actually costs £5.00 is only 400% out.

    That’s pretty much par for the course in ConLabDem land after you allow for inflation, rising expense claims, etc.

  22. alba46 says:

    O/T ‘re problems reading the National.
    I also had these probes in Lanzarote on my Kindle. The default download is set to Automatic.
    By changing the setting to Tablet it downloads okay

  23. Gary says:

    Isnt Duncan Hothershall the troll who uploaded offensive material during the referendum campaign?

  24. manandboy says:

    For Labour, which is reliant on TV and the Press,
    there are just two rules:
    learn your lines off by heart
    and dress like a Tory.

    With postal voting and a huge number of elderly voters,
    that’s all it takes.

    At least, that’s what they think.

  25. Dog says:

    Hothersall is really starting to get on my wick.

    He’s got a “smart” answer for everything and yet every one of his arguements can be shot down in flames in the time it takes Jimbo to neck a can of tax-payer funded ginger.

    You must get sick of debunking his pish everytime it is posted so fair play to you – your fingers are going to be worn out over the next 3 months!

    P.S. He reminds me of a charachter from an Enid Blyton novel.

  26. Rosa Alba says:

    I have to take issue w the assumption that for Labour, however branded, “the duty of Scottish Labour MPs is to act in the interests of the UK, not Scotland” in fact, further I would take issue that “the duty of Labour MPs is to act in the best interests of the UK’.
    For Labour it is, as you pointed out with your reference to Trevor Davies, the primacy of party interests.
    Not even the interests of the UK as a populace or nation or land area, but the interests of party, which translate as the interests of those who receive not just £1.30 reimbursement of beverages bought to slaik thirst, a need independent of parliamentary work, nor even lavish Arms Dealers dinners or ermine cloaks (withe expenses) but shares in, if I recall correctly, Health Care companies that would have a field day when/if TTIP is passed, and shares in Shale Gas companies.

    One only needs to look at voting records to see that.

    Then there is the spiteful, “it’s ma ba’ an’ ahm no playin'” belief that lingers on over the place of Labour (Scottish, Martian, Vulcan or otherwise) in Scotland, and that someone has stolen their rightful place.

    But again – I do not believe that any Political Party with professional PR Merchants and Spin Bowlers (and I do not mean our Duncan but the movers and shakers at HR and WM) could be as inept, two-faced (hypocritical, policy-pilfering) and contradictory as they appear to be. I think it is a game of purposeful double shift, sleight of hand, smoke and mirrors: deliberate confusion, with a side helping of no press is bad press. Belittling, or even underestimating the (Scots) electorate, it may be but it won the Union (at whatever cost).

    The path of least resistance – too easy to chose.

  27. Helena Brown says:

    With apologies to anyone who has already remarked but the first lie on the page was that Labour like open debate. If there was a party which was interested in hearing the other side of their viewpoint that would be the day. Indeed I agree with every word MajorBloodnok says in the opening comment.

  28. Stoker says:

    Hothersall tells us:
    “You don’t put people who want to destroy something in charge of it.”

    Yes, indeed, Mr.Hothersall, and that’s EXACTLY why Scotland’s electorate will NEVER allow Jim Murphy and his Labourites anywhere near our Scottish Parliament in any position of power.

    Murphy has been sent north to ensure Scotland remains subservient to its Westminster masters and to weaken our progressive parliament by removing a whole raft of powers from that parliament.

    THAT is the actions of a malicious saboteur, Mr.Hothershall.

    Red Tory Traitors are no longer welcome in Scotland.


  29. bald eagle says:

    big jock says:
    10 February, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    Should their slogan not be:” British first ,Labour second and Scottish when it suits us”.

    jock i feel a song coming on jump in at the chorus 1 2 1 2 3

  30. Helena Brown says:

    O/T have found a way to watch Outlander,
    Excellent. Why wait until it appears finally on Amazon Prime.

  31. Grizzle McPuss says:

    Sorry Rev O/T

    Pull pin and throw in hand grenade…

  32. gillie says:

    It is no smart for Labour to rule out an agreement with the SNP at Westminster, if they did this would be the SNP’s billboard poster.


  33. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    watching them being butchered in may is gonna be sweeeeeet

  34. Helena Brown says:

    Manadboy and Stoker, I with both of you. You paint a pretty accurate picture Manandboy, and Stoker you put it so well, they can never be allowed to have power here and yes the SNP do exactly what it says on the tin and that is the big problem for the others.

  35. gillie says:

    It would be political suicide for Labour in Scotland to seek an agreement with the DUP.

    To introduce such an overtly sectarian element into Scottish politics would be disastrous for the party north of the border.

  36. De Valera says:

    Labour Hame – Preaching to the Demented.

  37. ErinT says:

    “Time to rule out the impossible coalition”?

    Why hasn’t anything been mentioned about a grand Tory-Labour coalition? Neither of the respective party leaders, or their subordinates, have ruled that one out.

  38. Croompenstein says:

    @Dog –

    He reminds me of a charachter from an Enid Blyton novel

    but Dog, Enid Blyton didn’t write Billy Liar I think it was Keith Waterhouse 🙂

    btw I notice everyone is on best behaviour with the paragraph breaks 😀

  39. jackie g says:

    Helena Brown says:

    Excellent. Why wait until it appears finally on Amazon Prime.

    Helena do me a favour If you watch it don’t give away too much of the plot as i have just bought the first book.

    Cracking escapism bye the way..

  40. SqueuedPerspextive says:

    I posted the following response to the article on LabourHame – which for some unknown reason seems to be failing to pass moderation (so far).

    Duncan’s article is not an analysis of likely outcomes, but an attempt to push the idea that the SNP only have a single aim, like it’s a single policy party. By portraying them as though they don’t consider the merit of other policies which might help Scotland, he hopes to persuade the reader to accept that premise, slip this idea into the subconscious and then place a big donkey of a conclusion for all to argue about.

  41. bald eagle says:


    not for long my friend not for long

  42. drawdeaddave says:

    Least, if in error, he’s getting closer to the truth of why so many of us Scots will vote SNP this May, we are sick fed up of a WM system that doesn’t work for Scotland & the other EQUAL partners of the UK, factor in the panicked vow of home rule & the actual recommendations that Labour fought so hard to deny us, & is it any wonder Labour in Scotland are going to be as near wiped out as is possible. Does Labour actually believe Scotland has called it wrong & Labour are right? Labours Scottish branch are so obviously WM & the establishment’s representatives in Holyrood it is futile to even argue against it. Rather than have a pop at the democratically elected representatives of Scotland at WM, maybe Mr Hothersall would be better served trying to stop his Tory chums from introducing evel @ WM, cause if SNP doesn’t make Scottish Labour MP’s redundant & irrelevant then evel surly will.. BRING IT ON…

  43. wingman 2020 says:

    I’d suggest Hotysall applies for this…

    But I doubt he knows Mars from Uranus

  44. speckled tangerine says:

    Looks like you’ve called them out on that successfully!

    Now changed to a fiver a year!

  45. Andy-B says:

    Well done Rev, an excellent article, the more, you dig into Labour, the more I realise, just how far, they really are removed from their constituents, and what they want from them.

  46. Les Wilson says:

    All we can do is to vote for as many SNP MP’s as possible and prepare well for what will be a rough time for Westminster.
    Then at least our voices will be heard, and no doubt derided.
    However, the worse we are treated, the more we are, mocked ( because we will be!)

    The more Scots will see Westminster bared, and the corrupt institution it really is. Bring it on.

  47. handclapping says:

    ” You don’t put people who want to destroy something in charge of it.”

    the NHS
    education, education, education
    HM Armed Forces
    the post war social security consensus
    people who would actually press the button in charge of Trident
    light touch regulation
    add your own Westminster favourite(s) here

    bugger, forgot woods and forests

  48. alexicon says:

    They’re making it up as they go along now, just like they’ve always done.

  49. Robert Louis says:

    Oh my, I cannot stop laughing. Somebody in the Labour party is now suggesting they would like to do a ‘deal’ with the DUP?? Are the people in the Labour party utterly insane?

    Can you just imagine households of a certain persuasion up and down Scotland hearing this news.

    Please, can somebody sit the Labour backbenchers down and explain just what the likely implications of such a ‘deal’ with the Ulster unionists might achieve in Scotland.

    The mind boggles.


  50. big jock says:

    I think the problem with Labour is this. They start by insulting and debasing over 50% of the elctorate, as cybenats,fascists or Stalinists. Well they did during the referendum, when Jim was screeming like a Tsamanian Devil during the referendum.

    They then ask the same voters to come back to Labour. The reason being to keep out the right wing fascist Tories.However if the Tories are right wing fascists and the Yes voters are right wing fascists. Would we not want to keep Labour out?

    After all us fascists have really got to stick together.

  51. Marie clark says:

    sighs ! ” SNP MPs should be excluded from any possibility of participating in the government of the nation to whose parliament they are elected, while at the same time that the same parliament represents the whole of the UK.”

    Listen buster, you lots begged and pleaded with everything you had for us to stay. In spite of all the dirty, lying underhand tricks you got up to you wanted us to stay. So, here we are, that’s your doing. We will participate in the UK parliament for the simple reason that, for now, we are part of the UK. So if we elect SNP MPs they will be there to safeguard and represent they people of Scotland. If you don’t like it, you should have left us alone to go our own way, they fact that you did not is just your tough luck.You should always be careful what you wish for.

    Major, your are absolutely correct, they do not like democracy.

    By the way folks, any word on whether the smurph as enlightened his constituents with regard to whether he is standing for East Renfrewshire or not. Pretty shabby way to treat folk, eh.

  52. john king says:

    Isn’t that a great picture of Dunkin Donut?
    I think it gets his best side,
    you should get that framed Dunkin.

  53. Clarinda says:

    Rosa Alba 3.25 and previous thread

    Do I pick you up correctly when you suspect those who are demonstrating such apparent daftness (I’m being polite)that they are indeed playing a game? They’ve done it before and look what happened. I too cannot believe that with sites such as this and others – exposing a constant stream of guff that it cannot just be ignorance but a deliberate ploy to fool some of us most of the time. A proven strategy that worked last time. However I do think that most of us aren’t fooled most of the time! But it’s worthwhile reminding us of the potential blind alley of this malicious double-speak.

  54. Robert Louis says:

    Just wondering, does anybody know what happened to Scott Minto aka sneaky boy? Or have I just failed to notice his posts?

  55. Marie clark says:

    Apoligies folks, twice put they instead of the. That’s what happens when your blood starts getting warmer.

    Robert Louis, naw don’t sit them down and explain anything to them about a deal with the DUP. Leave them alone. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

  56. john king says:

    Dog says
    “He reminds me of a charachter from an Enid Blyton novel.”

    Or this guy even

  57. Helena Brown says:

    Jackie I would never tell you the story, it is such a good one you read all of them and enjoy.

  58. Derek says:

    I see that this was the chaps @YES Giffnock that unraveled this, good on them.

  59. Helena Brown says:

    Marie Clark, that is my wish, let them make all the mistakes they can and boy let them be beauties. So far so good on that.

  60. r baxter says:

    STOP PRESS, new extension at carstairs hospital due to influx of labour mps with p45 syndrome. may input.

  61. Davy says:

    Just had a read of hothersall’s article and is he getting a drubbing in the comments for that pile of garbage, is their anything in it that does not come down to SNP bad , red tory good.

    Is that the best you can do Dunky, pathitic.

  62. Wee Jonny says:

    “Labour village idiot Duncan Hothersall” Oof hud that.

  63. Albamac says:


    Distort reality – fools the elderly every time“.

    With postal voting and a huge number of elderly voters,
    that’s all it takes

    I’m almost 69. Am I elderly?

    I’ve been out of the house twice in the past ten months, to meet some of you at the Counting House, last April, and to vote Yes in the referendum. I’d rather crawl to a polling place than use a postal vote.

    Please stop.

  64. Lanarkist says:

    Drunkman Bothersall starts from the premise that the UK is a country and then goes downhill from there on in.

    Only Labour can represent this whole country and ignore Scottish wishes with impunity.

    Why oh why can’t Scotland just vote Labour then go to sleep for the next five years.

    If Labour do get the most seats without a strong group of SNP MP’s they will proceed to undermine Holyrood and give our taxes directly to their pals in Local Councils to spend as they see fit.

    No, I don’t want them in charge unsupervised either, to sabotage all the good work that Holyrood have managed to do with both hands tied behind their backs.

    He really is quite good though at postulating decent arguments for voting SNP!

    Is Drunkman a sleeper that Bothers all?

  65. richard mackinnon says:

    I think Wings over Scotland is making a mistake when it enters in to a serious analysis of Duncan Hothershall’s article in yesterdays Labour Hame. It gives his rambling ifs and buts over possible coalitions some kind of respectability. In the same way I think the SNP leadership is wrong to say anything about possible coalitions before the general election.

    Murphy has adopted the theory ‘if all else fails, complicate things’ as policy. Nobody should take anything any Labour spokesperson says seriously if their leader thinks we are that stupid.

    The article by Trevor Davis however should be advertised, dissected, I dont know, made the subject of a party political broadcast. Surely we have some contacts in the media that can put to Murphy the question, do you agree with Trevor Davis?

  66. Dr Jim says:

    They’re all at it today,first it’s Lib Dems Jo Swinson leaflet through my door advising me to vote for them to stop the SNP Campaign for Independence then we’ve got the Police moaning about stop and search interference by the Scottish Guv and now it’s the turn of Ineos who see no future in Scotland long term without Fracking which is strange considering they recently spent a whole lot of money on equipment to process American Gas, maybe the Scottish Guv might just say “Oh dear how sad never mind” is that the best threat you’ve got
    There must be at least one Murphy pronouncement due before the end of the day

  67. John O says:

    @Helena Brown

    Better off using videomix or showbox for android based phone’s and or tablets if you have one.

  68. Helena Brown says:

    I am with Albamac, I am obviously of an age that we went to school together. I am not elderly well not yet in my dotage. I do think that there needs to be restrictions on Postal Voting and they should only be used by those who are unable for very good reason to get to the polling station, like disabled or working away. Other than that we need everyone to have to be identified at the Polling Station and if it comes to that we need their hands stamped as they do in other countries,other wise the chance of fraud will always be in the hands of those who are up to no good.

  69. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    One simple observation and representing their constituency members;

    ——the whip system.

  70. Bugger (the Panda) says:


  71. The Man in the Jar says:

    I managed to get about one third of the way down the comments on Labour Hame before my eyeballs started to melt but a big hat tip to Andrew Ellis for his efforts in arguing with Whatshisface. 😉

  72. A.N.Surgent says:

    I too think the labour brief with tory approval, is to destroy the Scottish Parliament. It seems that labour think its the right thing for labour councils to have more power than the Scot. Gov.

    It would be a disaster for Scotland if labour ever got the chance to run Scotland. Bedroom tax back, prescription charges, tuition fees, fracking more nuclear weapons

    Most of these things would affect the most vulnerable, the people that the labour party was formed to protect.

  73. Joemcg says:

    Re-postal votes. Can anyone explain why there was a massive 800,000 of them in the referendum? I would maybe accept that figure if 50 million were voting but 5 million? Aye right.

  74. frankieboy says:

    Tincan Hootersout is a fud. A creepy crawly one in search of a career in The British Labour and Unionist party. He will say and do anything to get there. This article confirms that.

  75. Clootie says:

    Scotlands job it appears is to send a bus load of compliant MP’s who will follow the Party line – regardless of the impact or lack of benefit to Scotland.

    I would much prefer a MP who considers his constituency when voting.

    Have a look at the voting records of our Scottish Labour MP’s…enough said!.

    Judge by deed and not pre-election promises which are worth even less than a Vow.

  76. BILL says:

    Just clicked the Join/Donate button for a £1 and its still:

    “Scottish Labour Party
    Join for just £5 a year”

    I’d have thought that Duncan Bothersall would have changed it by now considering he’s almost Stu’s Stalker and he DOES read these pages and comments.

  77. wingman 2020 says:


    It’s worse than that. You have included the under sixteens and non-voters.

  78. manandboy says:

    @ Albamac
    Thank you for your comments.
    Please accept my apology for unwittingly and a little carelessly,
    appearing to include your good self,
    and almost certainly many others just like you,
    nder the general title ‘the elderly’.

    In fact the image of ‘the elderly’ I carry
    is of the generation above the 60+ year olds,
    of which I too am a member, and who are invariably very
    active and totally tuned in to social media.

    More specifically, I refer to those who are very elderly
    and who are targeted by Labour
    for postal voting advice and assistance,
    together with those in care homes,
    the majority of whom have no access to the internet,
    and who rely on the BBC and the DR for news and current affairs.

    I have no doubt there is a vulnerability in that very senior age group,
    not least because they retain a trust in the BBC
    and have little knowledge of the dark side of that organisation.
    So too the Press & Radio.

    The slide into neo-liberalism by the political and business classes
    have left many isolated in their understanding of the world
    being the same as it always has been.
    A world in which it was universally believed
    that a British Prime Minister could only be a person
    of the highest possible ethical and moral standards.

    Such may possibly have been the case once upon a time,
    but when oil was discovered in Scottish waters,
    it does seem as if ethics and morality
    were quickly consigned to the shredder.

    Albamac, in future I will think of you whenever I am moved
    to type a comment or two on how Independence was denied Scotland,
    or on how to incorporate more No voters
    into the fold of those who choose self-determination
    and Independence for Scotland.

    With very best wishes.

  79. David says:

    @ Robert Louis, 4:24 pm
    Asking about Scott Minto aka sneaky boy.

    He (@Sneekyboy) has been active today on Twitter. If he’s not on this site, maybe he didn’t use enough paragraph breaks the last time he wrote on Wings, and annoyed the Rev… 🙂

  80. Martin says:

    As much as I don’t like Dunc, he does only suggest no coalition, he hasn’t suggested, overtly at least, banning SNP MPs. Agree about them hating democracy though, they believe in their absolute right to power and the righteousness of all their ideas.

  81. HandandShrimp says:

    There have been so many polls of late I would imagine Scott is up to his eyes in tables.

  82. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Meanwhile, back at the Guardian, Magrit Curran is still ‘Scottish Labour’ leader.

  83. Marie clark says:

    Has anybody told Jimbo that Magrit is Labour leader?

    Coalition is not on offer in anycase.

  84. Chitterinlicht says:

    Think a labour SNP coalition is fraught with danger, particularly as they hate SNP so much for stealing their ‘banker’ votes.

    What I would love to see is Tory labour coalition as that would end the union.

    However just need to wait and see and trust SNP to do their best.

    Side issue, anyone else noticing increase in BritNat trolling on Twitter? I try not to engage but unfortunately called one ‘Fannybaw’ last night. Does this mean I am ruled out of a future political career?

    Whilst there are some bam 45 ers out there the Britnats are pure ‘Heid the baws’. What I find most amusing is they do not really understand what they are pro union just some fantasy historical construct. Ah well

  85. Dan Huil says:

    Talk of coalition is just bluff and counter-bluff. All that matters is that Scotland deals itself the best hand possible in May. That means returning a large number of SNP MPs to Westminster.

  86. arthur thomson says:

    The Labour party are spineless and clueless. Vote SNP to provide the backbone and the principles that Labour need to have any chance of countering the tories at Westminster.

  87. Stoker says:

    Meanwhile, for those of you who do not want to help the enemy to survive and prosper by clicking on direct links to Unionist rags, here is a Guardian article archived.

  88. Bob Mack says:

    I had a to and fro debate on Facebook with a gentleman teacher who was adamant that the S.N.P. brought down Callaghans Government ,and allowed Mrs T to take over. Thanks to this site I thought I was well armed to counter the point.To my dismay however he could not understand the scenario which played out to allow this to happen,and duly informed me he would tell his pupils in modern studies the truth.

    What do you have to do ,in order to get relatively well educated people to open their eyes and see the truth ?.It is beyond me sometimes to understand.

  89. Macart says:

    Strange how the only folk talking about the SNP in coalition have absolutely nothing to do with the SNP.

    Two FACTS:

    The SNP will not support a Conservative government

    The SNP will seek to ‘work with’other progressive parties in commons and also Labour. 🙂 This is to be on a ‘vote by vote’ basis for which there will be a price make no mistake.

    Now the original quote was by none other than Alex Salmond himself and was covered quite widely in the press back in December I think. Since then the only people bandying the term ‘coalition’ about are the opposition parties and their pet media mouthpieces.

    Now unless Mr Hothsall can point to where and when the SNP have released a statement of intent to form any coalition govt. with Labour in event of a tight commons, then basically the entire premise for his wee article can be filed under bin. He’s making a big noise about a hypothetical situation, dressed in misinformation, cheap politicking and half assed supposition.

    So nothing new there then from Labour Hame.

  90. John H. says:

    Helena 3.27pm.
    I tried to open your link to Outlander and got a message telling me it had been reported as a web forgery.

  91. Dr Ew says:

    “In reality all UK MPs obey their national party whips, and the UK parties make decisions about the whole UK. If it’s the case that a particular decision would benefit England at the expense of Scotland, then it’s a UK party’s duty to act in the interests of the greatest number of UK citizens – which invariably means England, whose residents outnumber Scots by more than 10 to one.”

    It may be the party’s duty, Stu, but they do not act in the interests of England either. That may seem a quibble but I think it’s important to be explicit about the reality of our so-called democracy: By obeying the ‘Labour first, Scottish second’ and following their party whips, they’re simply doing the bidding of their leaders and their paymasters – the City of London, multi-millionaire private donors, the arms industry, the Daily Mail, MI5 maybe, and a long way back begging for bones from the table, the trade unions.

    So as the media try to play off England against Scotland or carcicature our independence movement as anti-English (not that I’m suggesting you are doing either), I think it is crucial not to conform to that language; peoples of England are being stuffed just as royally as the rest of us.

    That’s the real scandal and the reason even someone like Robert Peston had a programme on Radio 4 this morning seriously questioning whether the scale of wealth inequality and in particular the massive disproportion of power of the top 1% has shattered any facade of “British democracy”. I suppose it depends whether you believe such a thing truly existed, but if someone like Peston(!) is expressing such seditious thoughts you can be damn sure the whole Western democracy project is heading in the wrong direction, and fast.

  92. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Joemcg at 5.45

    Postal voting in the referendum smells very badly indeed. There were apparently 14,700 in my constituency against a normal 2,500 or so. What is more puzzling is that there was apparently a 97% takeup of the 14,700 (and in four other areas with many above 90%)which is virtually impossible on an old register. In fact I would say IS impossible.

  93. Valerie says:

    It’s so funny catching up on a thread, and someone posts ‘they’ve changed it’ ! How demeaning is it when you write for the public, and your crap attention to detail, is constantly pointed at? That’s before any comment on the drivel you’ve written.

    Their constant rehashing of the same old hatred is incredibly tedious. They have no originality for new policies, and no originality in terms of delivering the hatred they nurse.

  94. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Duncan Hothersall’s contribution to Labour Hame was so laughable that at one point I suggested on it that he was an SNP plant putting up arrant nonsense on it to discredit the Labour Party. It was at that point that they started moderating out my perfectly reasonable comments. Labour Hame then shortly afterwards died and there was nothing on it through much of the referendum run up. That has been revived under the direction of an idiot indicates the disaster that is Labour in Scotland.

  95. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    Regarding the DUP / Labour alliance it is not that surprising as politically they are quite close.

    Here is the latest update from political compass for 2015 which is quite interesting…

    Note how close Labour and DUP are to the BNP (close to historical Germany Nazi Party) and note how the SNP is a centralist left wing social democratic party.

    Also note this is not some right wing site – it was started and funded by Glenys Kinnock.

    So feel free to distribute widely – especially to potential SLAB voters who think Labour is left wing – It is not.

    Drunken Horse it all – are your reading – Labour is not a left wing party, repeat – Labour is not a left wing party, repeat….

    Wow – however the SNP, Greens and SSP are all left wing – who knew?

  96. Valerie says:

    @Dave Mcewan Hill, I agree on that postal vote issue.

    I have stayed out of the whole debate in public, but privately I too think the sheer number is huge, and very odd. Secondly, it’s very odd, that literally within weeks of the referendum, a UK wide clean up of the register was launched.

  97. gerry parker says:

    @Bob Mack.

    Stu did an article recently quoting from Jim Callaghan’s book.

    Point your modern studies teacher at that.

  98. JLT says:

    Why is it an ‘impossible coalition’? Why is it not possible for there to be a Labour-SNP Coalition government? Surely if we take Labour’s ‘old’ core values and check them against the SNP’s ideology, then they are both pretty similar.

    But what I would find unbelievable, is a Tory-Labour Coalition. And yet …the media now and again, keep telling us (ney …preparing us) …for such an event.
    Surely having the Capitalist ideology getting into bed with the Socialist ideology and both pretending to sing from the same hymn sheet …would just be illogical. So, how does that work?

    Unless of course, Labour really have become …the Red Tories.

    But no matter how you twist the outcome, you will get anger and bitterness. A Labour-SNP Coalition will surely tip Middle England towards its own referendum as they will not want to be ruled by the SNP. Middle England can live with UKIP, but it can’t live with the SNP. So, the question arises …why did they want Scotland to remain part of the Union for then?
    If we get a Labour-Tory Coalition, then Scotland will be the one bolting for the exit. To see the Labour Party get into bed with the Tories twice, in not just the referendum, but also in government, will be the last straw for the Scottish people. Utter betrayal will be perceived on such an outcome.
    And even the unlikely scenario of a Tory majority will probably infuriate the Scots as it appears nothing can stop Governments being imposed on them. This would only raise the clamouring of a new referendum as Scots see no benefits of being in a Union with England where Tory Governments, agendas and policies are thrust upon them whether we utterly vote against them.

    Something’s gonna give…

  99. Lollysmum says:

    1) Has Jim been deposed in favour of Magrit? She’s quoted as being Scottish labour leader. Has she been busy back stabbing again & we’ve not been told yet?
    2) Why ask Magrit about coalitions-her seat is one of those that is favourite to fall to SNP so she won’t be there on May 8th with any luck?

  100. Helena Brown says:

    John H Cannot understand this, I have been watching this all day. Husband actually got this off Wing’s page.
    John,I am watching this on my laptop,the picture I’d IN HD and is superb.

  101. A.N.Surgent says:

    Jeez, BT and sky new contract for English fitba works out at under 10 million.. 10 million a game, what ever way you look at it, thats obscene.

  102. John H. says:

    Thanks Helena. I don’t understand it either. Maybe it’s my security system.They asked for my bank details too.

  103. Helena Brown says:

    John h,I don’t understand this as I have been watching this all afternoon. Husband actually got this off Wing’s so check the back articles

  104. Macart says:

    @ geeo

    Yes, but you have to understand ‘Lord’ (cough) Foulkes is actually a Spitting Image puppet.

    (in a whisper) He’s only a pretend politician. 🙂

  105. Sinky says:


    In response to George Foulkes remind of of Bankrupt Briatain

  106. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    JLT at 8.41

    Point is that middle England, which has been fed rubbish about Scotland and Scotland’s economy, doesn’t want Scotland but the rulers of England,who know the actual truth, know they need Scotland.

  107. JLT says:

    Dave McEwan Hill

    LOL …yes, you and I know that! But we’ve gone from the ‘please don’t leave us’ mantra that we got six months ago, to where we are now, where there is now a sense of a quiet growl emanating from leafy suburbia at the thought of being ruled by the SNP.

    I have to admit …I really don’t know if a Labour-SNP coalition will come to pass, but if it does, then oh by God, is it going to be interesting to watch the reactions from certain parts of the UK!

  108. John H. says:

    Thanks cynicalHighlander. I’ll try that.

  109. Lollysmum says:

    John H
    If you’re using for Outlander then you don’t need to register or give bank details.

    Go to this page
    Scroll down to find the list of 8 episodes. Click on name of 1st one-think it was Pilot. That takes you to a new page with a screen on it. Just above the screen is the words Watch it here. Click on that & it starts the programme loading.

    Sometimes it also puts up adverts behind the page you are trying to watch so I got used to minimising the Outlander screen to check for ads & close them down if there were any. Then its just a case of playing Outlander.Enjoy 🙂

  110. John H. says:

    Thanks Lollysmum. I’ve got it now.

  111. Early Ball says:

    @Hoss Mackintosh

    One interesting aspect of the compass is that the Tories have moved further right than UKIP. You would not think that was possible. Just shows you the Daily Mail agenda matters down South.

  112. Graeme Doig says:


    One million quid in interest payments every 12 minutes!

    Nice to know they are putting our hard earned tax to good use.

    Vote SNP and lets start dealing with this madhouse.

    btw have sent FOI request to bbc re any communication they have had with Sony about Outlander.

  113. Al says:

    To all those wanting to see the back of Iain Davidson, the SNP in Glasgow South West are running a fundraiser:

  114. Valerie says:

    Just been around FB visiting some political pages, and same old crap as the referendum – nasty BT types out there spiking news stories with endless slagging comments about the SNP. Engaging supporters with lies and drivel, trying to make people disheartened, and provoking them into defending SNP.

    The trolls are cranking it up.

  115. desimond says:

    New Labour..its all rather cultish isnt it?

    Send all typo jokes to the gutter please

  116. CRAIGthePICT says:

    These Scottish Labour branch officials are meant to be a conduit between people and good governance, but instead are disconnected from reality and devoted to a corrupt system.

    7 branch leaders in 15 years – Dewar, McLeish, McConnell, Alexander, Gray, Lamont and Murphy won’t last past May.

    As fat cat British Labour MP Lanark and Hamilton East says, feck what’s good for the Scots, I’ll vote for London rule regardless.

    There are 2 kinds of people in Scotland; those who want the best for the country, and those who don’t. Also, those who realise a sea-change is occurring and those who would rather go blind.

  117. Nick Heller says:

    I suspect that the branch office has taken delivery of one of these;

    New and Improved – The “Murphy” Announce-A-Tron

  118. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Al 10.14 Can you tell them that they need to set up Paypal on this appeal – its easy to do and the ones that do it get more money

  119. Thepnr says:


    The trolls are cranking it up.

    Crikey! that was quick, the 77th Brigade up and running now?

  120. Albamac says:


    Thanks for that. I agree that some older folk have been duped and frightened to sway their votes. The Labour Party has a proven track record of intimidation and vote-rigging. It’s been going on since long before the referendum.

    Lack of clarification was my only concern and you’ve addressed that.

  121. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    @Early Ball

    On latest political compass page – Some positive news for Labour though – they are marginally less fascist than they were 5 years ago. I suppose that is what happens when the Blairists have slightly less influence.

    Bad new is that they are still a right wing, neoliberal, authoritarian, fascist party though – Hope you are still reading – Drunken Horseitall !

    No wonder they campaigned with the BNP and the DUP (OO)…

    Also both UKiP and the Libdems have taken a sharp jump towards the fascist, neo-liberal top right corner.

    I particularly liked the quote …

    “The Lib Dems are now widely — and correctly — viewed as a party of few fixed principles..”

    It is a great site – adds a completely new dimension to politics.
    Thanks Glenys!

  122. Albamac says:

    To all you couchtuner fans:

    I’ve been using it for ages. No names, no pack drill, just click and watch.

    Use an ad-blocker to stop any ads and, if you’re interested in going a step further, use Torch browser which allows you to download them with a single click and watch later.

    When I go online I use a VPN, where necessary, for added security and to access sites that block content based on your IP address.

  123. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Thepnr Mibbes he new Chindits 77th brigade borrowed Chitty Chitty Bang Bang tae git aboot.

  124. Thepnr says:

    @Hoss Mackintosh

    Did you “take the test”? I just did and have found I’m a Green, almost sitting on top of them.

    I thought I was in the SSP, obviously I have yet to find out how much more “authoritarian” they are than I believed 🙂

    I think a lot who post here would be very surprised at how far away they appear on the political compass from the party they support.

    By the way, it is all the parties who are in the wrong place, not the punters.

  125. Hoss Mackintosh says:


    As a fan of Willie Rennie as was sorely disappointed that he was lagging behind in the award for the Bella Celedonia prize for Dunderiest Dunderheid.

    However, George Foulkes with his pronouncements on Polls (especially when the SNP are leading) and his latest HOL nonsense – he is truely a deserving winner.

    Time to crack open that excellent HOL champagne to celebrate Lord Foulkes. Oops – looks like you already started some time ago.

  126. Al says:

    @Cadogan Enright
    Will try! Cheers for the advice.

  127. Cadogan Enright says:

    I note that Labour voters for independence Facebook page has more friends than the scottish labour party

    I wonder which way they are voting in May? – must be hard to stick with Labour for any politically aware person at this stage

    I note a rather odd headline on the Labour page “May 7th 2015: The Day to End Tory Rule in Scotland” shurely shome mishtake – are they calling for an SNP vote??

  128. schrodingers cat says:

    @Cadogan Enright

    agree with you about paypal

  129. schrodingers cat says:

    re- duncan hotdogstall biting the carpet

    ahem……..doesnt he have a pillow?


  130. Dr Jim says:

    Is it just me, why do folk not listen or effing read, how many times do you need to be told, OK lets do it again
    There will be no propping up a Torie government
    There will be no coalition with the Labour Party
    What there might be is co-operation with the Labour party on a case by case basis in order to extract maximum benefit for the people of Scotland
    Co-operation….Coalition…. two different words two different meanings
    If you’re on our side make sure you get this right the SNP are on Scotlands side not the Labour Party’s
    So you know when the numptys ask…it’s important!!!

  131. Stoker says:

    Perfect example of British Bullshit Constipation.

    I came across this FOI request on ‘WhatDoTheyKnow’

    This FOI request asks if the BBC has been fined over allegations of Scottish referendum bias and, if so, how much?

    The response is a very long-winded pile of smouldering excrement which focuses on, well, nothing really!

    Two main parts, for me, are utterly laughable and stand out:

    (a)-“The information you have requested is excluded from the Act because it is held for the purposes of journalism, art or literature. The BBC is therefore not obliged to provide this information to you and will not be doing so on this occasion.”

    (b)-“No complaints about alleged bias in reporting on the Scottish Referendum have been upheld by the BBC Trust.”

    Lets make our voices heard – numbers are rising nicely:

  132. schrodingers cat says:

    at Al says:

    If you take cads advice and set up a pay pal method
    come back and repost the link and Ill give you a donation
    I cant say fairer than that?

  133. Cadogan Enright says:

    and I am waiting to donate too

  134. schrodingers cat says:

    oh dear, did someone forget to tell dunky poos?


    mcternan will have his guts for garters for going off party dogma,

  135. Tam Jardine says:

    It does strike me as strange how these democratic concepts and mechanisms are despised by folk like Duncan (someone who I’m sure considers himself to be pro-democracy).

    Referenda, coalitions, the rise of smaller parties challenging the current hegemony, government being formed by commanding support of the house… all healthy stuff hated by labour. Could it be that they simply don’t think there is any point being in government unless you can do whatever you want?

    For Duncan the SNP should not be part of the UK government as they want to ‘destroy the UK’. So do the lib dems (the party of federalism!!), Plaid Cymru, Sinn Fein.. Whilst the tories and UKIP want to destroy Europe so they are hardly suitable..

    Who does that leave Duncan? Ah yes, the labour party!

    The bottom line as far as I can tell is that Duncan wants us all to forget about what we actually want and vote for a party we hate so that a party we hate even more don’t get in.

    That just isnae doing it for me – and I don’t think it would do the labour party any good whatsoever to have the current batch of MPS including Miliband validated by an election win. They don’t deserve a majority any more than the tories.

    I can live with either as long as there is a strong SNP contingent – the flavour of tory doesn’t matter to me anymore. One thing is for sure – the union is creaking and groaning at the strain right now and the only result that would ease the strain (an SNP collapse) seems the unlikeliest of all outcomes.

  136. John O says:

    A bit off topic but worth a read.

    These charts show how the SNP will hold the balance of power after the general election

  137. Al says:

    @schrodingers cat
    Thanks for the offer. This is out of my hands, but I’ve mentioned it to them.

  138. Hoss Mackintosh says:


    Snap !

    Exactly the same place as you on the Greens in the centre of the left libertarians box.

    We are in good company – we are both next to Ghandi.

    I was surprised myself – I must be going soft in my old age. 🙂

    The rest of you – take the test – go on – go on – go on…

    You can always join the Labour Party for a £1 if it turns out you are a right wing authoritarian fascist.

  139. Valerie says:


    “The brigade will be responsible for what is described as non-lethal warfare. Both the Israeli and US army already engage heavily in psychological operations.

    Against a background of 24-hour news, smartphones and social media, such as Facebook and Twitter, the force will attempt to control the narrative.”

    If it is the advance troops, then they are of similar intellectual deficit as the pre referendum Unionist trolls.

    This one that I do know, showed up on a Scottish page which is pro independence, with another bunch of new folk with odd names, and a sideline in baseless remarks about the SNP.

    Definitely new, as I visit the page most days.

  140. cirsium says:

    @Joemcg, 5.45 and @Valerie, 8.25

    Re-postal votes. Can anyone explain why there was a massive 800,000 of them in the referendum?

    That 800,000 is an interesting number. I was reading recently that 800,000 voters had disappeared from the electoral register in the UK-wide clean-up. Just a coincidence?

  141. Robert Peffers says:

    I’ve had a hard day and I’m off to bed but I’ll leave you with this thought after reading the above article by the Rev Stu : –

    Vote Labour – get screwed.
    Vote Tory – also get Screwed.
    Vote LibDem – get Screwed by either Labour Tory , or anyone else who comes handy to LibDems.
    Vote SNP, SSP, Scottish Greens, (or other indy party), and get justice, fairness, democracy – and your self-respect as a Scot back.

  142. manandboy says:

    Labour’s Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt has insisted he meant “no offence to nuns” after appearing to suggest they do not make good teachers.
    Tory backbencher Nadine Dorries accused Mr Hunt of “sneering down his nose” at Ms Odone “because she is a Catholic”, adding that he was “bang out of order”.

    She later added: “If Labour had any chance of holding onto its Catholic Glasgow seats, it lost it last night with Tristram Hunt’s remarks.”

    Looks like our Jim might have a wee problem in Labour’s Catholic constituencies.

    Love it.

  143. Barontorc says:

    cirsium says:
    11 February, 2015 at 12:29 am
    @Joemcg, 5.45 and @Valerie, 8.25

    Yes, I was wondering when the penny would drop. Let’s not be too hasty listening again to the ‘move along now folks, nothing to see here, pundits’.

    We wiz stitched up!!!!

  144. hopper69 says:

    Hoss Mackintosh@12.05
    Took the test.One and a half lines left of greens and two lines under Ghandi.

    Don’t know if that’s good or not.The only other person I ever voted for other than SNP (for 36 years)was a green councilor in Leith as no SNP candidate.

    Don’t know whether to change the way I think or the way I vote.

  145. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Well said – you are a very wise man and well respected.

    Good night and all the best.

  146. Hoss Mackintosh says:


    As far away from as UKIP, Red tory, Blue Tory and Yellow tory as possible is great. So you are a star!

    Near Ghandi is the best.

    Near Hitler is very, very bad – sorry SLAB and your new pals DUP and BNP.

  147. manandboy says:

    POSTAL VOTING – it’s an open goal. But the EC are clearly not interested

    Postal voting is open to fraud on an “industrial scale” and is “unviable” in its current form, a top judge has said.

    Richard Mawrey QC, who tries cases of electoral fraud, told the BBC that people should not be able to apply for postal votes as a matter of course.

    “On demand” postal voting had not boosted turnout or simplified the process for the vulnerable, he said.

    But the Electoral Commission said it would not be “proportionate” to end postal voting altogether.

    The government also said it had no plans to abolish the current system, saying it had made it easier for many people to vote.

    Since 2001, anyone on the electoral roll has been able to apply for a postal ballot.

    In January, the Electoral Commission said it was particularly concerned about 16 council areas in England.

    In some of those areas, the BBC has heard allegations that political activists are pressuring families into voting for their candidate, or taking ballot papers away to fill them in, which is illegal.

    BBC Radio 4’s File on 4 spoke to a man in Derby who said his mother had her postal vote cast for her by activists who turned up at her house and pressurised her into letting them fill in her ballot paper.

    Continue reading the main story

    Start Quote

    I think it particularly important that a relatively small number of cases of abuse, which need to be addressed and clamped down very firmly, don’t prevent other people – the vast majority of people – using it in a law-abiding way”

    Greg Clark
    Cabinet Office minister
    ‘Ghost’ voters and the perils of postal ballots
    He said: “Campaigners came to the house and they asked my mum to vote for them and actually my mum, not being able to read English, she didn’t know where to put the cross, so one of the people put the cross in the box for her and said, ‘There you go now you can just sign it and we will take it off you.’

    “Your votes are supposed to be anonymous but when people come to your house and are literally doing it for you that is not you voting is it? That is them voting for you and voting for themselves.”

    Mr Mawrey, a deputy High Court judge and election commissioner, said in one case last year he had come across 14 different ways that postal ballots could be manipulated.

    “Postal voting on demand, however many safeguards you build into it, is wide open to fraud,” he told Radio 4’s Today.

    “And it’s open to fraud on a scale that will make election rigging a possibility and indeed in some areas a probability.”

    Furthermore, he suggested postal voting had not achieved its other stated objectives, such as increasing turnout or helping particularly vulnerable groups who might find voting difficult to do it more easily.

    “All it actually does is create a convenience for members of the public who would rather fill in something in their own home.”

  148. davidb says:

    Bit trouble sleeping.

    Casual google of postal voting throws this up

    Scrolling through the pdf there is a clear pattern of between 5 and 10 percent of electoral rolls being postal ballots. So if the register – which included the recently deceased and 16-18 year olds ( for whom I’d have thought novelty would have been a trip to the polling station ) contained 4.3 million people you maybe would have expected 400,000 postal ballot papers tops, with maybe 350k returned.

    This does need more research. I know in my heart we was robbed, and I’m sure it has something to do with postal votes. I just don’t know what it was they did.

  149. Arabs for Independence says:

    Last week I heard a Channel 4 reporter say that there were 9 million postal voters for GE2015. If true that is very scary

  150. davidb says:

    And here is another link

    15.3% postal issued. Or maybe 660k . There is something fishy here.

  151. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    It may be of interest to some of you that, on R4 this morning, they were discussing Nicola Sturgeon’s upcoming speech at the UCL concerning the disaster which is the Tory austerity policy, mainly on the young, women and ill.

    The discussion moved to discussing the fact the SNP is in a fight “to the death” with Labour in Scotland for the left of centre votes. Their policies reflect that and some Labour MPs apparently are envious of them.

    However the cracker was that the interviewed correspondent, who was pontificating, said that Labour are making moves on the DUP as a partner post WGE. He quoted an MP or maybe more than one, who said that Labour would be much more comfortable working with the DUP than the SNP.

    I am speechless but maybe I should not be thinking this is in any way an unexpected development.

  152. john king says:

    “Crikey! that was quick, the 77th Brigade up and running now?”

    I have a question,
    how will they carry their battle honours?
    in a dongle?
    I’ve just thought of a regimental hymn
    Hoss Mackintosh says
    “Time to crack open that excellent HOL champagne to celebrate Lord Foulkes. Oops – looks like you already started some time ago.” (hic)

    Which reminds me

    David Cameron wants YOUR money so come along and shoot 500 grouse in a Tory party fund raiser to help raise 3 million quid, B.Y.O.B.
    Bring your own Bollinger

    Schrodingers cat says
    “re- duncan hotdogstall biting the carpet

    ahem……..doesnt he have a pillow?”


    Just because,
    prize for anyone who can spot Cameronb
    No prizes for anyone who spots Major Bloodknok

    Ronnie Anderson says
    “@ Thepnr Mibbes the new Chindits 77th brigade borrowed Chitty Chitty Bang Bang tae git aboot.”

    I was thinking more like this

  153. john king says:

    Political compass
    Its hard to know with some of those questions whether your answering them honestly or answering in the manner one knows will come up with the result expected (required),
    Oh I was to the left and below Gandhi ,hmmm.

  154. Macart says:

    @ BTP

    We are talking about the same party which did the deal in the desert, set up the PFI and ALEO schemes, had no problem with rendition and the jury is still out about who knew and facilitated what on LIBOR. Oh and the little matter of who they got into bed with during the referendum both politically and in terms of backers.

    I’d say they’d be more than comfy.

  155. uilleam_beag says:

    @John King: “Oh I was to the left and below Gandhi, hmmm”

    Same here. I knew I was a fairly liberal leftie, but I came out way down in the SW corner, a virtual scarlet anarchist.

    Quite proud of that, to be honest.

  156. john king says:

    I feel a rant coming on
    I anyone (stupid question coming up)else sick to the back teeth of looking at union flags every fucking place they look, on tv in shops the sight of them is really starting to make my blood boil,
    Subliminal messaging is used to “subliminally” influence the subect(s)
    There is NOTHING subliminal about what is being done to us, this is the modern day equivalent to a massed conquering German army marching down the Avenue des Champs-Elysees.

    I even started to question my own memory and asked the wife if she thought it was just me and the shops have maybe always had UJ t shirts cushions, tea trays, duvets, marketing on goods displayed as “British made” when produced in Perth ffs,
    and she agreed she has never seen such an explosion of fucking UJ’s in her life.

    Are you people TRYING to piss us off?

    What next?
    Three Lions and Vindaloo blasting from Morrisons tannoys?
    oh wait no,
    they did that three weeks before the referendum last year, silly me.

  157. ScottieDog says:

    On the subject of SNP destroying the UK, labour are different in that they have form for destroying oil producing countries which is why they should never be allowed to govern Scotland.

  158. heedtracker says:

    davidb says:
    11 February, 2015 at 4:07 am
    Bit trouble sleeping.

    Casual google of postal voting throws this up

    Postal votes were opened and examined almost as soon as they were arriving for counting over the three weeks was it?

    Both YES and NO had people watching the opening and the individual ballot papers result and we know this because Ruth Davidson said so on BBC tv 18th Sept.

    What we do not know is whether or not the ongoing poll result was the trigger for THE VOW fraud.

    If you can watch a large postal vote outcome “exit poll”, possibly daily, throughout the campaign and you have power to change NO to THE VOW devo max fraud , what are you going to do if you can see YES is winning?

  159. Andy Ellis says:

    @Bugger (the Panda)

    The DUP story was reported yesterday I think? There was an interview with the DUP leader. Pure fantasy if you ask me: the arithmetic doesn’t work unless the polls shift massively in the next 80 days. Any rainbow coalition aiming to exclude the SNP would still be far short of an overall majority, and would in any case collapse under the weight of its own absurdity: the SDLP or Greens would never want to go into a coalition with the DUP, and I can’t see how DUP desire for a brexit vote would be accommodated by New Labour?

    Just another frothing britnat SLab trial balloon demonstrating their visceral and unthinking hatred of the independence project generally, and the SNP in particular. The DUP story is of a piece with Hothersall’s call to rule out any deal with the SNP, and Lord Moodie’s call to form a Grand Coalition with the Tories to keep the SNP out. We can expect much more of the same in the run up to the GE.

  160. jackie g says:

    john king says:

    I anyone (stupid question coming up)else sick to the back teeth of looking at union flags every fucking place they look, on tv in shops the sight of them is really starting to make my blood boil,


    I have noticed this as well and yes it is annoying but, was heartened on Sat while leafleting in Midlothian that there were a lot of saltires flying outside peoples houses.

    There is also a HUGE YES sign on the side of someones house which has been there since Sept.

  161. The Man in the Jar says:

    I just did the political compass test. I landed a couple of pixels south (Libertarian) of the SNP. 🙂

  162. Macart says:

    @ John King

    Yeah, they’re doin’ their best bless, but just like jackie g there are still houses and farms down my way flying Saltires and YES signage.

    Still have my own YES badge, keyring and carry a national about every day myself. 🙂

    Oh and I’m fussy where I shop and the branding of what products I buy. Make a point of going to Lidl and Aldi as often as possible kinda thing. 😉

  163. Scotspine says:

    Anyone seen those insulting and patronising saltires with unio flags in the corner? Usually run up flag poles in retired, wealthy persons gardens.

    A bit like those Proud to be scots delighted to be united car stickers with the see you jimmy character holdin a saltire? Again, usually seen on 4x4s or older jaguars a nd mercs .

    These all boil my piss….

  164. Bob Mack says:

    I find myself becoming increasingly irritated by the interview technique currently utilised by presenters North and South of the border.It usually goes along the lines of waiting till your guest has half completed an answer and immediately ask a further sometimes but often separate question.I listen to gain knowledge and insight into the mind set of the invited guest not to listen to the speaker
    This technique also gives rise to an impression of confusion on thd part of the person being interviewed.This of course could well be the plan
    I find it reprehensible that Mr Murphy is given the time to fully respond ,but candidstes of the S.N.P. are constantly bombarded by the presenters. I am sure there must be a technique to deal with this method of attack.

  165. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Andy Ellis

    I agree that it is a load of slavering nonsense but when that is being touted, and by logic by someone with permission to do so, openly with the tag on that Labour (not Jim Murphy) would be more comfortable in bed with the DUP than the SNP, it really sets the bar so low that if nothing is below them so they can gain power.

  166. Dorothy Devine says:

    John , have reduced shopping in my nearest Sainsbury’s because nearly everything has the union flag plastered on it – even Scottish tatties have a wee saltire but an enormous union flag.

    Could purchase them – Won’t purchase them.

    Same applies to loaves of bread dressed in red white and blue.

    Every programme on the telly seems to sneak in the red ,white and blue ,even the antiques.

  167. Faltdubh says:

    Very interesting regards the postal voting. Never mind that, the normal pen in the booth stuff is very suspect. I doubt it’s just me, but simply the last few times I voted and in the referendum, you just turn up state your name, address and they give you the card!

    I’m not saying that the same man or men come every 30 mins stating a new name, but how can voting be that easy? Surely, showing some form ID – passport, driving licence, etc should be required to vote?

    Postal voting should have tighter legislation. The reason it doesn’t (and this is not an anti-immigration rant) is because the UK govt border’s and local councils actually have no idea who is living where. Those couples who retire to Spain for 5 months of the year yet still registered at home, same with offshore guys who may even work for a foreign firm and pay no tax to the UK, still registeed to vote at their parent’s house and so on.

    JohnKing, I feel you brother. Seeing lots of the Blighty flag everywhere and ”British made” under stuff. Unfortunately, we quite simply have to suck it up. We apparently voted no to our independence, we/you/us will receive no sympathy from foreign friends even with a shitebaggery media, as De Niro says to Stallone in Copland “I offered you a chance. We coulad have done something, and YOU BLEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW IT. You blew it”

    Replace you for us/we/Scotland.

    We’ll have our day though and it will be a lot sooner than the Britnats expect.

    Keep working away and that ”only 10% SNP lead” will help fight the activists, SNP members on to wiping Labour’s arse in the Election.

  168. jackie g says:

    Scotspine says:

    Anyone seen those insulting and patronising saltires with unio flags in the corner? Usually run up flag poles in retired, wealthy persons gardens.

    Yes i see one every day outside a hotel on the way to raging every time i see it Grr

    Honestly these people need to have a word with themselves!

  169. john king says:

    jackie g, Macart, Scotspine.
    I agree the public are keeping the faith with plenty of Saltires and yes stickers/posters to be seen,

    But am sick to death of these complicit Shops finding it so easy to follow a Westminster dictac to get as many UJ’s on display as possible without making it obvious (snigger),

    We need to start making these shops aware we can see and we object to their (choice of?) soft furnishing designs, tshirts and the like,
    not buying the things is one thing but I don’t really think the lack of sales is important to these people I would be willing to bet the government is giving them tax breaks to offset their loss,

    No they need to be made aware that if they don’t get them off their shelf tout suite they can forget the footfall of half of (if not more) the population of Scotland,

    The yes movement needs to get back in touch with its power and start exercising it,

    Lets remind them


  170. Robert Peffers says:

    @geeo says:10 February, 2015 at 8:50 pm:


    Which just highlights the dearth of intellect and/or honesty in the Labour Party – and in particular their Scottish Branch Office. You don’t need a high IQ to figure out for yourself that as the Oil & Gas Revenues are taken by the Establishment’s Treasury under the Establishment’s ruling that they are levied upon, “Extra-Regio”, territory.

    In effect this is just a made-up name for a new fictitious country created by the Establishment for what is actually just the internationally designated territorial limit and Continental-shelf extension of existing countries and Scotland is internationally ruled to have legal jurisdiction over her own territorial waters and continental shelf.

    What that means is that around 95% of the Oil and Gas revenues comes from Scotland’s legal territory but the revenues from it go to the United Kingdom Treasury. The UK Treasury then credits Scotland with earning just 8.4% of that revenue.

    So Wee Numptie, Baron Foulkes of Cumnock, fails to know, (or lies about the fact), that the main losers are the UK Establishment for Scotland’s share is almost negligible and the UK is already, in all but name, Bankrupt.

    BTW: Baron Foulkes of Cumnock, is actually an Englander. Having been born, on 21 January 1942, in Oswestry, Shropshire. (and as some actor person once famously didn’t say, “Not a lot of people know that”.)

  171. HandandShrimp says:

    I had a go at the political compass. I am a left wing anarchist apparently, bang in the middle of the bottom left hand square along with Pyotr Kropotkin. :O

  172. jackie g says:

    john king says:


    Indeed we are but you are correct we need to fight back.

    It is the same product placement UK guff in the supermarkets.

    I try and but fruit&Veg loose or make sure it is grown in Scotland (LIDL is best for this)as the stuff they package is either from Isreal aah or further afield and then they bloody stick a UJ on it and charge you twice as much fecking drives me mental.

  173. galamcennalath says:

    Economic Left/Right: -2.88
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

    Almost a ‘Gandhi’.

    I expected to be in the middle. I feel I should be in the middle, so makes me worry about the attitudes of those out on the Right or Authoritarian positions!

  174. Soda says:

    BBC Radio Scotland talking about foodbanks…

    Some tory from East Renfrewshire thinks it isnt governments fault and that they are a good thing because it creates community spirit!

    And a well intentioned lady who thinks the answer is to give the poor microwaves and pressure cookers!

    I’m about to give up!

  175. Author_al says:

    Slightly OT

    Had a pleasant evening being thrashed at dominos, the game not the pizza parlour, when my neighbour put on the last 8 minutes of Question Time. The one where they insulted scotland and UKIP ranted against the Take Take Take mentality while Ester McVomit spewed her patronising bile. Meanwhile a patronising lib dem likened the offensive UKIP rant to the tone and language that Nats use against the English. Being English, I took profound offence at these comments and almost kicked the TV in. A discussion with my Yes voting, Daily mail reading, neighbour raised the following.

    When Scottish settlers went to the USA they were deliberately not helped by the local settlers and indigenous folk because the English were going about saying to let them fend for themselves, knowing the harsh winters and poor harvest would kill Scots off.

    The English at the time of the act of Union had lost lots of its ships in a large storm and needed new ones to avoid dire trading losses. The Scottish fleet was huge so the union was partly arranged so that the English would have enough ships to trade effectively abroad and not lose out…

    40 lords signed away Scotland and got rich in the process.

    Not sure if the 3 points above are actuate or apocryphal, but my neighbour says they are true. Any thoughts?

  176. john king says:

    “Anyone seen those insulting and patronising saltires with union flags in the corner? Usually run up flag poles in retired, wealthy persons gardens.”

    I related a story last summer when I was driving through Culross (you know who you are) when we passed slowly by a house where the man was out cutting his hedge and on top of the portico over his front door was a cemented in bucket which held a flagpole atop of which was a U/J

    As my wife had the window down on her side of the car the neighbour (who was also cutting his hedge) heard her words of disapproval, he conspiratorially (in a stage whisper) said back “not for much longer” suggesting people were not happy with his choice of decoration, this was reinforced by the (plethora) of Yes stickers and posters in the village,

    I am happy to report not only is the flag gone but the UKOK stickers on his car have ahem disappeared as well. 🙂

  177. Chic McGregor says:


    The male lead, Sam Heughan, came out strongly in favour of a Yes during the referendum.

  178. Sinky says:

    Anent Lord Foulkes and Bankrupt Scotland.

    Baron Foulkes attended Haberdasher Aske’s school whose current fees are £16,662.00 (£5,554.00 per term)

    Foulkes finest moment was when he complained that the SNP government is “ trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are
    manifestly better than south of the border”.
    When asked if this was not a good thing.
    Lord George replied “But they are doing it deliberately…” LoL

    Ralph Miliband always said Labour would betray the working class — so he produced two sons to prove it. From Labour source!

  179. author_al says:

    “My last post should have read, ‘being English and a Yes voting SNP member…I took profound offence at these comments and almost kicked the TV in.”

    Fat fingers typing on a tiny mini-iPad keyboard…not easy.

  180. Macart says:

    I have no idea who Kropotkin is, but I’m almost sitting on his moustache. 😛

  181. Robert Peffers says:

    @Macart says:11 February, 2015 at 8:58 am:

    “Oh and I’m fussy where I shop and the branding of what products I buy. Make a point of going to Lidl and Aldi as often as possible kinda thing. ;)”

    Aye! Macart, and you are not the only one. You will notice that the retailers closing down outlets in Scotland are the same ones who were threatening to leave Scotland if we Scots dared vote for independence. The ones opening more outlets in Scotland are the ones who did not threaten to leave upon independence.

    Strange then that after we didn’t gain independence the ones who said they’d leave are now leaving and the ones saying they’d stay are prospering. Make of it what you wish but there isn’t a dickey-bird in the media to the effect those threatening a Scotland exit are now doing so even after their threats got the result they wanted.

    Perhaps we might remind the killers of Brigade 77 of that when they do the dirty work of the Establishment that is killing poor people by austerity. BTW: I’ve not set foot again in any of those companies outlets who dared threaten my country and thus also threaten me. Perhaps they need a course that used to be advertised as, “How to win friends and influence people”.

  182. X_Sticks says:

    Political Compass..

    Your Political Compass

    Economic Left/Right: -9.13
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.23

    Two squares up and one from the left.

    Am I an anarchist or is it continued exposure to radical Wings Over Scotland folk that is having an effect?

    Any closer to the lower left I’d be out the box. Oh, wait..

  183. Macart says:

    You and me both Robert.

    If I can avoid it, few of those retailers and financial institutions who threatened sanctions on our electorate will see a penny from my family.

    Just the other day my boy brought a big smile to this face. At lunch time its the habit of the kids at the local high school to walk into town to the local Morrisons to grab sanwiches and such. Its become the popular thing to do.

    My 16yr old son started to go to a local self employed burger vendor (self employed small catering van idea). I asked him why he didn’t go with the other kids? His answer?

    This fella sells good Scottish Angus burgers and anyway Morrisons won’t profit from me dad.

    Chip off the old block. 🙂

  184. G4jeepers says:

    Love the cropping of his pus to that of a couple of Halls beef sausages, nice touch.

  185. Graeme Doig says:

    John King and others

    Certainly noticing more UJ’s in supermarkets. Mrs D brought home a packet of apples once that had UJ on. She won’t make that mistake again 🙂

    We now shop in Aldi. Lots of quality Scottish produce available.

    A wee aside. My stepson recently came back from school and told me he was having to learn GSTQ on his flute. I told him to tell the flute teacher that he would not be learning it.
    The wee soul (he’s 9) did as i told him and lo and behold, the following week, the whole class had been given FoS to learn.

    It certainly is time to stand up for Scotland and Scottish culture. We are a colony no more!

  186. Pog says:

    O/T I got a leaflet through the door this morning from John Lamont, and as I wasn’t sure which party he stood for I searched through the leaflet to find out. Nowhere in its glossy six pages did it say which party he stood for, the only clue was an email address buried half way down on the very last page under “Email John” with scottishconservatives dot com written in tiny yellow print. Does he think no one in the Borders will vote for him if he openly admits to being a member of the Consevative Party?

  187. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says:11 February, 2015 at 9:08 am

    “I find myself becoming increasingly irritated by the interview technique currently utilised by presenters North and South of the border.”

    Spot-on, Bob Mack. I found myself yelling out, “Gawn yirsel Hen”, this very morning when Oor Wee Shining Star FM was being subjected to just such disgraceful tactics by the despicable Gary Robertson of BBC Scotland.

    Nicola has become expert in dealing with these numpties. Gary tried this one on but Nicola pointedly insisted upon continuing her current answer before then moving on to the new one Garry interrupted with. This resulted in Gary sounding exactly like the idiotic bully he undoubtedly is.

    Like many of his ilk his personal self-esteem is a great deal larger than his imagined intellect. You could almost hear him shrinking throughout the interview.

    I also note his longer term self-esteem has been growing in direct proportion to the size of his waistline. The more bloated he becomes the more he tries to bully the interviewee. Thing is that interruption tactic can only work with the help of the victim allowing the interruption.

    Two ways to kill it stone dead are to either reply, “If you don’t mind I’ll answer your first question -(pause) – that you seem not to want answered. Why would that be”? This has the effect of the interviewee becoming the interviewer and vice versa.

    The alternative is to act as if the interruption never happened, (or say, “Have you finished”, then continue with the answer or explanation you were giving. In all cases the aim is for the interviewee to be seen/heard to be taking control of the interview.

    Like debating, such techniques can indeed be taught and learned. You did know that the BBC actually has such a college for budding BBC Journalists, didn’t you? (and it shows).

  188. Calgacus says:

    @John King, completely agree with you about the union jackery:-(

    As far as Brigade 77 goes if they turn our own armed forces against us then that is a ("Tractor" - Ed)ous act of war.

    How very dare they.

  189. Lollysmum says:

    Macart, Graham Doig & others

    Just loving the stories being told about how your families react to indyref & after. Really heart-warming & showing that the coming generations will be more aware than their forefathers evidently were before indyref. 😉

  190. Robert Peffers says:

    @jackie g says:11 February, 2015 at 9:38 am:

    “I try and buy fruit&Veg loose or make sure it is grown in Scotland … “

    Try Farmfood, Jackie g, they stock most things but lots of Scottish produce and usually cheaper.

  191. One_Scot says:

    With regard to Margaret Curran stating that Nicola Sturgeon wants a labour government, she is trying to be a smart ass for the sake of being as smart ass.

    And to be honest, she isn’t even that smart.

  192. Fred says:

    Ffoulkes’s Ffinest was when he was lying drunk on the pavement outside Parliament. 🙂

  193. Stoker says:

    (1)-ASDA = NO: They actively played a part in the ‘No’ campaign

    (2)-Sainsburys = NO: One of the biggest Labour Party donors

    (3)-CO-OP = NO: They actively support & sponsor Labour candidates

    We don’t buy newspapers and we’ve never bought a tv licence.

  194. Marie clark says:

    Quite right Robert, that is the correct way to deal with the Gary Robertson’s of the world. It is bullying and most definately very ignorant to behave in this manner. But since it’s the EBC what do we expect. Why are they persisting in running referendum 2 when it is in fact the GE? Shit scared of we Scots and the SNP I reckon is the answer.

    John King and others, the UJ are annoying, but I never ever buy anything with a UJ on it. I always shop in Aldi’s or Lidl’s so those who threatened to leave, well what goes round comes round as we can now see.

    During the referendum we had a Saltire flying, but a smaller one and all the YES stickers on cars etc. Two days after the referendum result hubby ordered a muckle flag pole and a new full size Saltire, and there she stands, proudly flying in our garden. As he said at the time, if these numpties think we’re fur giein up, they’ve anither think comin. GIRFUY.

  195. Kenny Campbell says:

    The duplicity of Labour in calling EVEL as undemocratic yet calling out SNP as being wholly unable to be constructive in UK sense is amazing. Its like they have two faces…..

  196. Graeme Doig says:


    “We don’t buy newspapers and we’ve never bought a tv licence.

    Ach your just showing off now 😉

  197. Bob Mack says:

    Robert.I did not know that fact, but it explains why so many of these political pundits like Brewer, Neil, and Robertson have adopted this technique.I find it highly objectionable ,especially when they give the Labour representatives up here a “free ride” during their interviews

  198. Dr Jim says:

    It’s wednesday already and no pronouncements from Murphy
    Is Stairheid replacing him
    Keeps getting better

  199. Tony Little says:

    Haven’t completed the political compass for a while. Surprised myself this time. I seem to be getting more extreme with age! Maybe I was also reinvigorated by the Independence debate

    Economic Left/Right: -6.88
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.08

    Pretty sure I was closer to the centre left/SW corner before. Interesting times

  200. john king says:

    While browsing the web looking for a permanent flagpole I found this testiminial
    Customer Testimonials
    Blyth Hall Flagpole, Newport.
    “I would like to take this opportunity to express my personal gratitude to you, and your colleagues for carrying out the task professionally, skilfully efficiently and most importantly, safely, during difficult times for the entire country.

    I shall send photos of the completed job for inclusion in you portfolio.”

    Many thanks

    (Fife, Council)

    The offer above (oor wee Dereks testimonial)
    “£ 99.00 +delivery and VAT

    Aluminum flagpole
    5M height
    White powder coated finish
    Complete with halyard, cleat and white truck top
    Includes 5ft x3ft Printed St George or Union flag
    Optional quality sewn 1.5 yard Union Jack flag extra £34.00
    or quality sewn St George extra £18.00”

    Derek your a total C@%*^¬t
    Be aware Derek I shall be watching for your photos!

  201. Robert Peffers says:

    @Calgacus says:11 February, 2015 at 10:46 am:
    “As far as Brigade 77 goes if they turn our own armed forces against us then that is a ("Tractor" - Ed)ous act of war.

    Ach! Cummoan, Calgacus, Ablins ye ken fu weel yon’s no oor ain troops? Bit jist in case ye dinna ken.
    I’ll explain it in the English Language.

    They troops in question, and in fact the entire Armed Forces, Civil Servants and the very Government itself are legally, (under English Law only), the Property of Her Majesty the Queen of the Kingdom of England, (Who, just by chance), also happens, in The United Kingdom, to be Queen of Scots but not of Scotland.

    That being so you will note the correct legal terms used are, “The Royal Navy”, “The Royal Air Force”, “The Soldiers of the Queen”, and it has been, “Her Majesty’s Government”, that controls the whole shebang on behalf of, “Their Majesties”, ever since the English, “Glorious Revolution”, of 1688, when that English Parliament removed the Royal veto from their imported Royalty of King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange.

    This after deposing King James II of the, (three country), Kingdom of England. Which, still being independent, did not legally depose of King James VII of Scotland and thus began the Jacobite Uprisings of 1688 – 1745.

    Upon signing the Treaty of Union the legal position of the two former independent Kingdoms became a bipartite United Kingdom of two former equally sovereign Kingdoms. That is until the Westminster Parliament of the nominally United Kingdom decided to split the bipartite United Kingdom into a quadratic union of countries but to retain the Westminster Parliament as the de Facto Parliament of the country of England by devolution of their English Powers.

    So as the English Members, (plus the ("Tractor" - Ed)ous Unionists from the other countries), have a vast majority in that parliament of England/United Kingdom the functions of, Her Majesty’s property, (including her subjects), will, (purringly), do as they are bloody well told or Her Majesty’s Government of England will instruct Her Majesty’s troops to enforce Her Majesty’s Government’s will.

    So got it now, Calgacus?

  202. Stoker says:

    @ Graeme Doig,

    Och, naw, wheesht man, av no even goat started!

    I’ve never even bought a bottle of that girders guff ever since that company got behind the LieDems during one election campaign maybe 6/7 (possibly more) years ago.

    I’m known as a “stubborn b@$7@rd” but i prefer principled b@$7@rd.

  203. Will Podmore says:

    “why the UK public – let alone the Scottish one – is so reluctant to see Labour back in power.” Wrong again, Labour is ahead in the polls. Even if you don’t want it to be, even if you would prefer a Tory government to be re-elected, as this would add power to your false assertion that ‘England’ is irredeemably Tory.

  204. Macart says:

    @ Will Podmore

    Not in Scotland they’re not. 🙂

    Oh and the Labour party/Conservative party… there’s a difference?

  205. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says: 11 February, 2015 at 11:15 am:

    ” … I find it highly objectionable ,especially when they give the Labour representatives up here a “free ride” during their interviews.”

    Here’s a link that may explain a lot more, Bob Mack.

    Another point is that one of the series of lectures was by none other than Brian, “toodleoothenoo”, Taylor”.

    I couldn’t find my links to his BBC College stuff but here is a link to one by another BBC College Lecturer.

  206. Robert Peffers says:

    @Stoker says:11 February, 2015 at 11:53 am:

    “I’m known as a “stubborn b@$7@rd” but i prefer principled b@$7@rd.”

    So, Stoker, Jist yir average, Thrawn, conter, independent Scot, then?

  207. Author_Al says:

    @Robert Peffers – you are the go to guy for this kind of knowledge. Re my earlier post, what exactly was the status of those signing the Treaty Of Union… Did Queen Anne handpick some of those involved, Scottish commissioners who had a unionist bent?

    I’m fast playing catchup on this site.

    Btw my neighbour came round, wondering if there had been any answers to his points…I said that this isn’t University Challenge 🙂

  208. Robert Peffers says:

    @:Will Podmore says: 11 February, 2015 at 12:00 pm:

    “”Wrong again, Labour is ahead in the polls.”

    Best check again, Will, for the Ashcroft poll from just two days age states : –

    Ashcroft National Poll: Con 34%, Lab 31%,UKIP 14%, Lib Dem 9%, Green 6%

  209. Fireproofjim says:

    Just been delivering the first of the SNP general election leaflets.
    Met a young man who had had his saltire stolen from his garden on the night of the referendum. His reaction was to paint his garage door with a Saltire about 6×4 feet.
    With that kind of spirit it is only a matter of time.

  210. Robert Peffers says:

    @Author_Al says:11 February, 2015 at 1:15 pm:

    “… what exactly was the status of those signing the Treaty Of Union… Did Queen Anne handpick some of those involved, Scottish commissioners who had a unionist bent?

    First thing is that you won’t find it easy to get information, (AHEM!), I wonder why?

    Seriously the Establishment was in full cry then and since. You will find the usual information is total rectally sphinctered bovine waste matter. i.e. complete bullshit that mainly begin with, “In 1707 the two countries of Scotland and England became one country”.

    Which of course they never have and probably never will. The Treaty being to unite Kingdoms and there isn’t a single mention of countries in the entire document. The only way to get to the facts is to read the actual text and look at the historic background but that background is skewed in all sorts of ways.

    First of all, as I’ve been posting out for yonks, you cannot look at most historic events in isolation for early history affects everything thereafter. Thus from just after Roman times the whole of Britain has been either avoiding South West foreign invaders or been to some degree enslaved by that area of Britain and most of the history of events is written either by the Establishment of the day or by people a very long time after the events.

    Anyway to shorten the matter. The English got themselves into quite a bit of trouble over their colonies. They passed what are known as, “The Transportation Acts”. These barred anyone from dealing with English colonies unless by the English Mercantile Marine or a minimum of crewing their own ship by English Mercantile Marine officers and crews. This led to several expensive European wars and even led to the American War of Independence.

    This was when The London Scot, William Paterson, started a subscription scheme to bail out the English Parliament and that led to the founding of the Bank of England. Patterson’s close Friend, “Daniel Defoe”, was operating as an English Spy in Scotland and sending information back to Westminster. He also had the ears of many of the Scottish Parliamentary people and Landowners. Patterson led the Darien Expedition that then bankrupted the Scottish Landowners who were thus ready to accept English Bribes.

    That’s quite a basic picture but I’m sure you will get the idea of what was going on. A bit like the present day in fact.

  211. Bill Steele says:

    Please, let’s stop calling the British Labour Party in Scotland, “”Scottish Labour”. The latter name is a misrepresentation intended to fool the Scottish electorate into believing that there is a Labour Party in Scotland which represents the interests of the Scottish people and Scotland. You correctly state, “… it’s the duty of Scottish Labour MPs to act in the interests of the UK, not Scotland, …”


    “If it’s the case that a particular decision would benefit England at the expense of Scotland, then it’s a UK party’s duty to act in the interests of the greatest number of UK citizens – which invariably means England, whose residents outnumber Scots by more than 10 to one.

    Scottish Labour MPs faced with such a scenario will always vote overwhelmingly with the whip, because their ultimate loyalty is to their (UK) party, not their constituents or to Scotland.”

    Let’s stop propagating the British Labour Party in Scotland’s lie that they are the “Scottish Labour Party”. In order to inform the electorate of the truth, Let’s always call them “The British Labour Party in Scotland”

  212. Will Podmore says:

    Robert cites the Ashcroft National Poll: Con 34%, Lab 31%,UKIP 14%, Lib Dem 9%, Green 6%. No SNP there, total percentage 94. Was the poll just in England then? As far as I remember, general elections are still held across the whole of Britain (plus, oddly, Northern Ireland). So a poll across Britain would still put Labour ahead of the Tories – sorry to disappoint some of you.

  213. Legerwood says:

    JLT at 8.41.

    Why not a Labour-Tory coalition? They have so much in common:
    Lab Government introduce tuition fees, Tory Gov continue and increase them
    Lab Gov introduce bedroom tax (on private rentals), Tory Gov continues and extends it to other rentals.
    Lab Gov starts to close sheltered workshops, Tory Gov continues and extends the closures.
    Labour Gov starts to privatise NHS, Tory gov continues and extends NHS privatisation.
    Labour Gov cuts 10p tax band taking more tax from poorest tax payers and uses it to fund tax cut for better off, Tory gov cuts 50 p tax band and makes up shortfall by cutting benefits.
    Tory Gov proposes £30 billion of tax cuts and Labour supports cuts
    Tory Gov support Tracking bill, Labour abstain and bill passes.
    Tory gov does not ask for exemption for NHS from TTIP, Labour stay silent (more or less).

    So no great difference between them and I have not even mentioned their joint efforts in the referendum.

  214. Thepnr says:

    @Will Podmore

    The figures Robert gave were taken directly from tghe headline of the article. The missing 4% for SNP can be found in the first paragraph:

    The Conservatives are ahead by three points in this week’s Ashcroft National Poll, conducted over the past weekend. The Tories are up three to 34%, with Labour unchanged on 31%, the Lib Dems up one at 9% and UKIP down one at 14%. The Greens are down three points at 6% and the SNP unchanged at 4%.

  215. Caroline Corfield says:

    Goodness sakes, some people eh?

    It’s like they’re incapable of using search engines.

    Ashcroft UK of GB and NI wide poll, results published in Telegraph 11-02-15,

    Con 34% , Lab 28%

    Further in England the Tories were backed by 37% to Labour’s 29%

  216. Bill McLean says:

    Where there’s a Will there’s now way!

  217. crazycat says:

    @ Macart (9.55 so rather a belated reply!)

    Prince Peter (Pyotr) Kropotkin was

    a) a Russian aristocrat
    b) a prominent anarchist
    c) an eminent geographer

    Since the Soviet communists disapproved of the first two categories of people, when I was in Moscow in 1981 the city tour guides referred to him as “the well-known geographer” and omitted all mention of his decidedly more famous other activities.

    I suspect the current regime has the same attitude. I once had a cat called after him.

  218. robertknight says:

    For two years Labour’s branch office north of Hadrian’s Wall has, together with the blue Tories, been telling us all we’re Better Together and therefore better off ruled by Westminster AND, to a lesser extent, Holyrood than by Holyrood alone.

    What the branch office now tell us is that we’re only Better Together if they are in charge at Westminster and disaster awaits us if they’re not.

    Can the electorate be forgiven for regarding, if they didn’t already, every utterance made by Murphy and his minions as complete and utter bovine manure.

  219. Fred says:

    You have to hand it to Will Frogmore, he keeps bouncing back spouting pish.

  220. Macart says:

    Cheers crazycat.

    Sounds an interesting fella altogether.

  221. Macart says:

    Oooooo Conservatives 3 points up on Labour with only three months to go.

    That’ll leave a mark.

  222. Will Podmore says:

    Other polls put Labour and Tory neck-and-neck, with UKIP and the Greens losing support. it’s still the case that voting anything other than Labour makes it easier for the Tories to win a majority.

  223. Will Podmore says:

    Robert Peffers challenged my statement that under the SNP teacher numbers, college places and NHS beds were all down. I did as he suggested and provided references.
    Government website –
    So under the SNP, teacher numbers have been cut by 3,994, from 52,446 in 2007 to 48,452 last year.
    Education body Colleges Scotland said that there were 238,805 Scottish college students in the academic year 2012-13, down from 347,336 in 2009-10. This is a cut of 108,531. Over the same period, the hours of learning delivered by colleges fell from 83.4 million to 73.7 million, a cut of 9.7 million hours, while staff numbers dropped from 20,686 to 13,761, a cut of 6,925 teaching posts.
    Hospital beds in Scotland are disappearing at a faster rate than in almost any country in the western world.
    The Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development found that Scottish hospitals have got rid of beds at a faster rate than almost anywhere else. In 2007, the average number of staffed beds available in Scotland was 27,735, or 5.2 beds per person. By 2011, there were just 24,760 or 4.67 per person, a cut of 2,975 beds. See Sunday Post, 27 April 2014.
    So, exactly as I claimed, “Under the SNP, teacher numbers, college places, and NHS bed numbers are all down.”
    Perhaps Robert will have the decency to retract his false accusation that I “make silly claims that contain nothing more than the demented claims of an obvious liar.”
    Robert has not yet had the decency to retract what he wrote.

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