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Anatomy of an embarrassment

Posted on May 31, 2018 by

And no, we don’t even mean the FOUR spelling mistakes in this 42-word tweet.

We mean the bit that we’ve highlighted above in blue. Because what Scottish Labour’s lowest-watt bulb was gloating about earlier today was that Lord Bracadale concluded there’d been no gap created in the law by the Kelly-driven abolition of the OBFA.

And that’s… well, that’s not quite what Lord Bracadale said.

Because what he in fact said was the literal exact opposite of that.

Lord Bracadale specifically and explicitly considered Kelly’s argument that existing law could cover everything that the OBFA used to, and concluded that it was, to use the complex legal jargon, cobblers.

He decided, in the most unambiguous language humanly possible, that abolition DID create a gap, and that it should be filled by, in effect, reinstating OBFA but expanding its scope beyond football. Indeed, he notes in paragraph 5.30 (our emphasis) that:

“The strongest case for extending stirring up cases to other protected characteristics may be made in respect of religion.”

ie the area covering sectarian singing at football, ie the bit OBFA did until this year. And just in case there was still some unimaginably dimwitted dum-dum out there who might defy all possible reason and evidence and somehow claim that he’d decided there was no gap in the law, he spelled it out again a few paragraphs later for idiots:

So there we have it. Lord Bracadale’s finding of “I consider that there is a gap in the law”, when translated into James Kelly’s very special version of English For People Whose Lips Move When They Read Until A Bit Of Dribble Comes Out, comes out the other end as a “demolition” of the claim that there’s a gap in the law.

We’ve been trying to think of a funny way to satirise that for a little while now, but to be honest we’re still drawing the thing between James Kelly’s ears.

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  1. 31 05 18 20:56

    Anatomy of an embarrassment | speymouth

185 to “Anatomy of an embarrassment”

  1. handclapping says:

    That is all

  2. thingy says:

    Britain’s Got Stupid.

  3. Graeme says:

    The man is a fcking imbecile, utterly incapable of joined up thinking, without question the thickest MSP in Holyrood and he’s up against some pretty stiff opposition

  4. Tam Fae Somewhere says:

    The Rev verses James.

    No a fair contest!

    Can we all start calling Mr Kelly “Jim” from now on? He never used to answer to that name when he ran with Cambuslang Harriers in his school days.

    Childish I know…..

  5. Fireproofjim says:

    But you’ve got to admit he has vindiacation for his arquement.

  6. jfngw says:

    Strangely I heard this same claim on Smoot Radio news (my wife hates Jeremy Vine) at lunchtime, but this channel news output is particularly unionist in my opinion. I wonder if they just report Labour press releases, as per most MSM outlets.

    Thought I had better check what the report actually said when I went home, didn’t need to as others had already spotted the discrepancy.

  7. Dr Jim says:

    Remedial classes for the slower kids perhaps, I’m sure there’s a local primary school handy for James to help him catch up
    Unfortunately our older kids are shooting off to Universities so quickly now they haven’t the time

  8. McDuff says:

    My God how I wish all the Rev`s stuff could get out into the wider domain and expose pine cones like Kelly masquerading as someone with a brain then we would have independence tomorrow

  9. jfngw says:

    I thought I had helped to oust him at the last election, but no like a bad penny he is still there as a list MSP. Still acts as if he is the local MSP, he’s not he is a Glasgow regional list MSP.

    If you want a physical definition of glaikit, I can offer you no better.

  10. sassenach says:

    Please, Rev, warn me before you print things like

    “James Kelly’s very special version of English For People Whose Lips Move When They Read Until A Bit Of Dribble Comes Out”.

    My keyboard now needs a major service!!

  11. Davido says:

    Don’t forget that The Greens waved this discrimination charter through. No second vote for them ever again.

  12. Croompenstein says:

    Sit down Mr Kelly!!

  13. twathater says:

    He is the EXACT reason why there should be a minimal educational qualification to become a politician ( you must be able to at least think , which Kelly fails at every time }

    Everyone can make spelling mistakes especially when typing hurriedly , but its not the spelling errors that make him a DORK it’s the fact that he is DUMB and useless

    I hate having to worry what people from other countries think of the mentality of Scots when they see the likes of Kelly ,Baillie ,Murdo WATP , Wells , Rennie ,AC Hamilton , and others , sitting in our parliament determining Scotland’s future , they must think that the Scottish electorate have rocks for brains
    I am incandescent at the thought that these gross incompetents are stifling Scotland’s future , starving our children , increasing poverty and unemployment whilst all the time doing this on a substantial salary

  14. Archbishop of Dork says:

    Hello I’m James Kelly. The heero that repeeled the Ofenssive Behaivor at Footbal Akt.

  15. jfngw says:

    Of course Kelly is who he is, he is not acting. The same cannot be said of Leonard and Rennie with their fake sympathy rhetoric, and acting from the Joey Tribbiani school of performing arts.

    Remember the Barnett formula is the financing of Scotland based on the spending requirements of England.

  16. galamcennalath says:

    Even if you didn’t like their policies, BritNat parties used to have politicians of substance who were capable of arguing their case conherently.

    They’ve all gone … why have are the replacements all of such low competency and intellectual calibre?

    Could it be because other things like blind loyalty, being unquestioning, parroting official lines, avoiding responsibility, and most of all incessant SNPBaaad whinging are prerequisites for office?

  17. The reason for List MSP`s was to allow citizens with abilities outwith the political bubble to be chosen by parties to become part of parliament debate and decision making,

    citizens who had worked in and had expert knowledge in things like NHS,Housing,Agg/Fish,business,transport,education,Arts,law,religion,new media etc etc,

    instead it is being used by the Unionist parties as a back door for unelectable thugs,clowns,sons,yoon zoomers,leftards,drunks and worst of all Jim Kelly,

    Jim Kelly makes Alex Cole Hamilton sound almost rational.

  18. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “The strongest case for extending stirring up cases to other protected characteristics may be made in respect of RELIGION. The repeal of section 6 OBFTCA has left a gap in the law. Stirring up of hatred in relation to RELIGION is an offence in the rest of the United Kingdom.”

    *my Caps.

    Unfortunately it wont get on the statute books before this event.

    Then Police Scotland could arrest this vile sack of shit for:

    “Stirring up hatred in relation to RELIGION”.


    Hope the Scottish Tax payer isn’t paying for the police presence but the bill sent to the DUP.

  19. Arbroath1320 says:

    But that is not the point Minister! 😀

  20. Morgatron says:

    The man is a total thick fuckwit. He can barely speak so its understandable that he cant even read and as his tweet clearly demonstrates . #onthemove.

  21. Tam the Bam. says:

    Stu!…..The Kelly.


    That is all.

  22. Geordie says:

    How does he get elected? Is it really that easy?

  23. Tam the Bam. says:

    Morgatron @ 9-50pm

    Never good to attack someone because they have a speech impediment.
    Attack his policies by all means…but you don’t endear yourself to others who don’t share our passion for Independence by citing physical issues.

  24. Macart says:

    Oh good grief! Mr Kelly really, REALLY, should SIT DOON!

  25. Street Andrew says:

    jfngw says:

    “Strangely I heard this same claim on Smoot Radio news (my wife hates Jeremy Vine) ….”

    Oh!, that’s a relief I thought it was perhaps just me that couldn’t stand Jeremy Vine.

    I gathered this week I’m not alone in becoming increasingly pissed-off with John Humphreys.

    I could do without Kirsty Wark and the Dimblebum twins too.

  26. Cubby says:

    Kelly and all the other British Nationalist diddies ( I include our Scotland in Union presiding officer who could only come in THIRD in my constituency) who get a comfortable seat in the Scottish Parliament thanks to the list system is a national embarrassment and disgrace second only to our propaganda writing journalists and TV stations. They are also a bunch of diddies but I think they can spell.

    None of the above have any professional or personal integrity.

    Clear off the lot of you to London and pick up your supply of dog biscuits from your masters.

  27. Morgatron says:

    Tam the bam @10.01
    Eh!! Im not mocking his speech impediment if that what makes him incomprehensable. Im stating he can barley speak English.

  28. Fireproofjim says:

    Zinedane Zidan to leave Real Madrid. Same day as Livingston advertises for a new manager. More than a coincidence, surely.
    The Daily Record must tell all.

  29. Dr Jim says:

    After todays disgraceful events by both Labour and Tory parties in Holyrood Neil Bibby rethinks his membership and position within Labour (I just made that up but)

    Take a close look at Neil Bibbys face during the Tories shouting about sending the young immigrant lad home

  30. Terry says:

    I heard this covered on radio scotland at 4. Am sure they edited it in line with James kelly. The line was that he said it was fine as breach of the peace!

  31. Gfaetheblock says:

    Don’t think the read here is right.

    The repeal of the OBFA did not create a gap in the law. So repeal was correct.

    There is a gap in the law that needs to be addressed, this is not football specific. This needs addressed.

  32. Andymak says:

    This man is not genetically programmed to be anything of substance.

  33. jfngw says:

    We definitely need to change how the list system works, it’s only one step up from the House of Lords. You can vote for a party but the parties will decide who is being elected.

    Also need to make list MP’s that leave the party they were elected on resign. They were not elected personally and if the leave a party the make-up of Holyrood then does not reflect the votes of the electorate.

  34. Winifred Mccartney says:

    It should be possible to bring liars like this to book. People who persistently lie should be removed from parliament -,this is not spin this is deceit and lying. It also proves, as if we need it, that the msm in Scotland is utterly useless.

  35. Inverclyder says:

    Proof if it was ever required that there must be some serious inbreeding going on within Britnat Labour in Scotland.

    Is Kelly his own father?

    Perhaps it was his mother who is also his sister and his brother who is also his father that produced this waste of oxygen.

    Every time I see that cretin on TV or online I hear Dueling Banjos from Deliverance.

  36. Winifred Mccartney says:

    Reporting Scotland just reported what Kelly says -did they not read the report and just believe Kelly – heaven help us all and they call themselves reporters.

  37. Capella says:

    So. There is a gap in the law.
    Upon my word, says James Kelly, the Scottish Government must draw up a bill forthwith to remedy this glaring omission.
    Argueably. Argu…Arghhh

  38. Marcia says:

    I have for the past few decades, suggested that all budding politician have to pass a basic intelligence test to be able to stand for office. That is why I have never applied for elected office. 🙂

  39. Albert Herring says:

    That the Unionist Party puts this sort of utter numptie on their list is a deliberate insult to the people of Scotland.

  40. ian murray says:

    Rev, please refrain from getting involved in a battle of wits with a defenseless opponent.

  41. Jock McDonnell says:

    Who she ?
    To paraphrase The Gipper, ain’t she terrific

  42. jfngw says:

    BBC seem to be going with the Labour press release and ignoring the ‘gap in the law bit’. I suspect that they will claim it is because he says the current law could be amended to include all such crimes. So it is not the OBFA law but the effects of OBFA being written into another law. You know how duplicitous the BBC can be.

  43. Robert Louis says:

    James Kelly is the epitome of the problem with Labour in Scotland. It is utterly pathetic. For such utter stupidity, the man is paid an annual salary by taxpayers of just over 61000 Pounds.

    What a star performer.

  44. Jock McDonnell says:

    Keep up the good work Agent Kelly.

  45. mike cassidy says:

    Its not just satire that’s dead.

    I would have archived this, but it keeps saying ‘error’.

    Too fecking true.

  46. Jock McDonnell says:

    @mike Cassidy they just keep blundering on

  47. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Andymak @ 22:24,

    I feel in the interests of complete accuracy that I must correct you here. It’s not his genetic inheritance that has made him like this, the cause is in fact behavioural. He is a long-term abuser (to use the correct technical term) of political propaganda. It’s a little-known and rather sad condition which, if untreated, leads to ever-increasing bouts of public utterances of complete drivel.

    In recent years there seems to have been quite an noticeable increase in the condition in Scotland, for which I naturally blame the SNP Government.

    (Although oddly it doesn’t seem to have affected their supporters in anything like the same way. They are probably adding something to the water supply that they themselves don’t drink.)

    Improvement is possible with sensitive and calming support and a complete abstinence, in this case, from Labour Party press releases, but unfortunately all too often sufferers are found to be surrounded by hangers-on who, for their own dubious reasons, stimulate and encourage the condition instead of helping counteract it.

    The consequence is eventual complete public humiliation for the sufferer, but unfortunately the course of the deterioration can take many, many agonising years. (Agonising for the general public, that is. Until close to the very end, the sufferer is generally quite oblivious to the steady loss of respect and the consequent increase in associated ribaldry.)

  48. Gary45% says:

    James Kelly is an embarrassment, he can only aspire to become the pish stained mattress of politics, going by his total ignorance on anything, he has a long way to go.

    Did he get voted in, or was he a back door “hinger oan?” if its the former, shame on the gullible who voted for him.

  49. Roughian says:

    I spoke to an English guy Eusebi’s Glasgow tonight. He had never heard of Wings site. I told him to look at it, ignore the petty stuff and look at the factual stuff. He’s for the UK but can understand the Scottish view point. His wife was very much Indy. I think we’re getting there guys.

  50. Meg merrilees says:

    Just noticed that the BBC Scotland website obviously can’t understand plain english either. they have an entire article about how new laws are ‘not needed’ on football behaviour.

    It gives a link to the document but clearly no0one read as far as section 5:15 as quoted by the Rev above.

    Surprisingly there is no opportunity to comment below the line.

  51. Dr Jim says:

    Front page of the National folks apart from the Ruth Davidson splurge by Andrew Tickell

    Patrick Harvie beginning to show his true colours? A little Redder and Whiter and maybe even Bluer? we’ll find out tomorrow

  52. yesindyref2 says:

    OT – defence

    Very good chance in my opinion of being a winner for the T31 tender, and should give work to Fergusons and Babcock. “Babcock Appledore in North Devon, Ferguson Marine on the Clyde, Harland and Wolff in Belfast with integration at Babcock Rosyth, Fife”.

    Now the thing is this, there were 13 T26 promised to the Clyde, 8 full ASW (anti-sub, it’s in the hull design as well), and 5 GPFF (General Purpose Frigates) to be built on the basic T26 design. But that changed to the current maximum 8 T26 and 5 (maybe more) T31.

    With BaE NOT going to build them on the Clyde but in Liverpool because they haven;t capacity on the Clyde beacuse they didn’t invest £200 million in a frigate factory nor did they invest £100 million in improves, so they can feck off, which is very likely what the MOD and RN are thinking as well. A betrayal of the workers, as GMB and Sturgeon have correctly pointed out to much abuse from the anti-Scottish mob. And I do in this case mean anti-Scottish, you should see the comments, even a (very decent) Unionist has been seen to blanch and protest.

    BUT and a big BUT. The hull will be based it seems on the Ivor Huitfeldt which I saw recently in the Joint Warrior 2018 on the Clyde, and very nice she is too, But a cheap price at the time, £250 million about £325 at today’s prices. Compared to the T26 as £1.1 billion to get the price idea. Yes of course the T26 will be up-specced, and is likely to be a world-leading ASW. More than our needs, too far advanced, far too far. They’re carrier group escorts, fit for that job, way too dear for anything else apart from scurrying around watching the backs of the SSBNs (nuke powered, nuke missiles) when not watching the carrier groups.

    Now we get or at least I do, to the point. Which is multifold hence my spasm of excitement. First the Ivor Huitfeldt is Danish, as are OMT. And Denmark is part of NORDEFCO (and probably why they’re not going for PESCO, the EU kind of equivalent in a way), which would be possible for iScotland to join, a Nordic co-operation. And hey, if Fergusons are involved, in that consortium, it’s their entracne into naval shipbuilding. So sorry, BaE, once the T26 is done you can feck off, and the workers join the expanded Fergusons, and we all live happily ever after in our grey fing frigates and yellow submarines (patent pending).

  53. Still Positive says:

    The best QT I have seen from Scotland. I even agreed with Brian Soutar om a number of issues even though I totally disagreed with him re his Section 28 referendum in 2000.

  54. Ian Brotherhood says:

    There’s some devious intelligence at work there, surely?

    Kelly may not be as stupid as he looks. (Few are.) But that implies a lot of wiggle-room.

    Is he SLab’s very own Claudius?

  55. yesindyref2 says:

    I’m pissing myself with laughter as well because the UK only builds warships in the UK you know, and they would be built in the UK with a Danish (the hull) crowd as part of the consortium. Oops. But shhh, don’t tell anyone.

  56. Archbishop of Dork says:

    If so many of her councillors and voters are Orange Order members and the DUP is allied with her party, and they both share a determination to enforce Scotland to leave the EU, why doesn’t Ruth Davidson ask to join Arlene Foster on the Boyne march in Fife?

    Since they both despise Scotland so much and share a disdain for the freedom and aspirations of decent Scottish people they should march side by side.

  57. yesindyref2 says:

    Iver, not Ivor!

  58. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Arlene Foster to grace Scotland and lead a wee march of bigots?

    There is a suggestion that the wasp chewing leader of the DUP will lead an OO parade in Scotland.

    Stop. This has to be an excellent wind up.

    The DUP and the Tories who in fairness make an excellent match are stupid folk, but not that stupid.

    If it were true and I’m sure it’s not how may non bigoted No types would move towards Yes.

    Go for it lass get over here with your fleg and your bigotry together we can shift the fence sitters to Yes.

    In other news Donald Trump is to lead a KKK march through the streets of Washington. Naw really just kidding.

    Right enough nonsense have to go and wash my hands.

  59. HandandShrimp says:

    Flipped over to catch a bit of QT. Question on Minimum pricing. Fair bit of unanimity from the panel and sensible things said. Flipped back to another channel when the Mr Angry zoomer started ranting about SNP taking the clothes of the working man’s back. He was a pretty convincing argument against alcohol to be honest. If that question was representative then the combo of Darren, Kate and Brian worker rather better than I thought it would and cue Mr Angry zoomers from the Yoonery complaining about three independence supporters on one show.

  60. yesindyref2 says:

    Anyways, I’ve calmed me doon now, I’m actually excited about this design (Venator140) for the RN as well.

    But for us, we need frigates with smaller crew as they’re hard to get and expensive overall, the Iver Huitfeldt [1] is 118, same as the T26, if the T31 can get down to say 100, and we do the same, and if it can keep to the £250 million price tag though to be honest there would be future expenditure as it would be barely furnished, well, we can do the same.

    Which would mean 5 or even 6 frigates for the same price I averaged at for my sample fleet, with money left over for a larger large deck amphib capable at will of taking 4 or so F-35B, or maybe 2 of them. And our 6 frigates could include a couple of air defence ones as well as say 4 ASW.

    Price is vital, and being ruthless about this, iScotland can learn a lot from the T31 program, and hopefully if this bid works, we’d ahve both Fergusons and Babcock who have shown a good amount of commitment to Scotland so far (so they bloody should from Renfrew originally of all places, if you ignore the Canadian I think connection).

    [1] A further development of the Absolon support / frigate class, also an able flagship / hospital ship / transport.

    So basically, this is something else we can learn from Denmark, with the fast jets from Sweden of course. I love it when a plan comes together, I hope. Oh, I insist on substantial osmosis on my LDA to provide bulk fresh water from seawater. Or I’ll throw my toys out the pram and vote NO, it’s the fashion these days. Mama!

  61. yesindyref2 says:

    2 identical LDA I mean. Can have different functions and hot-crew the functions with single specialist groups at need.

  62. Arbroath1320 says:

    Jason Smoothpiece says:
    1 June, 2018 at 12:58 am
    Arlene Foster to grace Scotland and lead a wee march of bigots?

    There is a suggestion that the wasp chewing leader of the DUP will lead an OO parade in Scotland.

    Stop. This has to be an excellent wind up.

    As a Fifer I never knew Cowdenbeath was such a hot bed of D.U.P. supporters. Not only that I never knew that Cowdenbeath was actually in Northern Ireland.

    I could have sworn it was in Fife, after all I have lost count the number of times I caught a bus with my gran to travel between Lochgelly and Dunfermline and I am damned sure we passed through a place called Cowdenbeath.

    Still what the hell do I know … I’m just one of those nasty cybernats! 😀

  63. Dr Jim says:


    Check out the boats the Aussies use loaded with tech

  64. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    Yes, they’ve got a decent navy, including a few diesel-electric subs. Ironically they’ve put out a tender for new frigates which are expected to be the backbone of their navy, and the T26 is one contender, but expensive in comparison to the competitors. I think there’s a good chance they’ll go for it though and of course it would be heralded as a Brexit success. Oh well, there has to be one I guess.

  65. Nana says:

    Hidden away: 1978 – 1995 Estimates of Scotland’s share of the UK General Government Borrowing Requirement (GGBR), assuming a GDP share of privatisation proceeds and 90 per cent. of North Sea oil revenues” equalled a SURPLUS of £27,000,000,000 (£27 Billion)

  66. Nana says:

    1/ Lord Pannick shares some fascinating insights from the Brexit Judicialised: Crown v Parliament (Public Lecture). @thatginamiller; ‘What are the consequences of the Miller case on the EU With Bill & the commitment to give Parliament a ‘meaningful vote’ on the terms of Brexit?’
    Video here

    Top-level ERT group say attractiveness of UK for investment is ‘very, very low’

  67. Nana says:

    Boss of pensions watchdog exits after BHS and Carillion controversies

    An estimated 6,000 dead bodies will have to be dug up in Birmingham to make way for HS2, adding to the 60,000 being exhumed in London.

  68. Smallaxe says:

    Good morning, Nana.

    Thank you for your links. It’s a beautiful morning here I hope the weather holds for tomorrows march in Dumfries.

  69. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe, fingers crossed for tomorrow.

    Goldman Sachs Vice President Charged With Insider Trading

    Rajoy -Impact of so called cash-for-kickback scandal appears to have sealed his fate

    Palestine UN envoy calls on global community to ‘right a historic wrong’

  70. Capella says:

    @ Nana – that clip from QT is a real tonic. The audience member deserves to go viral. Clear and stayed on message. Thx

  71. Brian Powell says:

    The problem is that the media are working very hard to get people like him in power in Holyrood. The Tories would be happy with Labour in Holyrood as they pose no threat at all.

  72. Nana says:

    She was magnificent Capella, I think her name is Ann Harding and I saw a tweet saying she was on 5live yesterday afternoon telling Adrian Chiles how Scotland is seen as a colony by Westminster.

  73. Macart says:


    Mornin’ Nana. I don’t actually watch the Beeb anymore, never mind QT, but the clip of that lady fair put a smile on my kisser.

    Good catch. 🙂

  74. Bill Drees says:

    Much of the abuse/prejudice in anti Irish Catholic. That is racial.

  75. Nana says:

    Morning Macart,
    I don’t watch it either, blood pressure canna stand it 🙂

    There were lots of folks tweeting it so of course I had to grab it. Amazing what a pick me up it is, which just shows how starved we are of the truth.

    Scottish msm should hang their heads in shame but they won’t.

  76. Highland Wifie says:

    Good morning Nana. It’s another beautiful one and thanks for links.
    I’m gutted I can’t make the march tomorrow in Dumfries but want to wish everyone a fantastic day.
    Looking forward to Bannockburn.

  77. galamcennalath says:

    Stu tweeted last night … “Seriously, is there ANYONE in Scottish Labour who knows which powers are fucking devolved and which aren’t?”

    Well, they certainly give the impression they don’t.

    They routinely demand that the SG take action on something which is reserved. To make matters worse, just as often, they were the party which prevented this responsibility being devolved!

    Truth is, I think it’s a mix of both ignorance and rampant BritNattery. They are indeed confused about devolved/reserved, which must say something about their competence. They also know many voters are also unsure (thanks to the media) so LiS also use this as an opportunity to spout SNPBaaad on reserved issues.

    Of course, what they should be doing is some ToriesBaaad or WestminsterBaaad on reserved matters. However that goes against the overwhelming priority to attack the SNP/SG/Scotland in defence of their Union.

  78. Ottomanboi says:

    @Bill Drees
    Anti-Catholicism began officially with the renegade Catholic priest Father Knox & company, well before the arrival of ‘immigrants’ from Ireland, the original Scotia. This phenomenon is more cultural than theological. Unionism, essentially a Protestant pact against perceived continental Catholic power, had ‘anti-Catholicism’ built in to its structure.
    Curiously, Scotland was rather less, in some respects, hostile than England but grew more so as Unionism bit deeper into the national and wider imperialist consciousness.
    Protestantism was identified as socially ‘progressive’, Catholicism as ‘reactionary’ a simplistic perception that persists today and drives distaste and intolerance of that religion among even the overtly secular and non-religious.
    This is a complex issue as varied as Scotland’s cultural make-up.
    When we are rid of Unionism this ‘sectarian’ culture will seem like a horrific nightmare.
    Perhaps then we may be able to look in the mirror of our history and come to terms with what we see, the good bits and the bad. In other words be a mature nation.

  79. Nana says:

    Morning Highland Wifey, I can’t make the march either but hubby intends to.

  80. Dorothy Devine says:

    Nana the lady on qt is magnificent and the comments below the line are for the most part equally magnificent.

    A cheer up for one and all!

    The drivel about Ms Davidson is beyond parody.

    Sadly I will not make it to Dumfries , delightful granny duties instead but have a wonderful , peaceful day and somebody give Ronnie a hug from me!

  81. Luigi says:

    Jason Smoothpiece says:

    1 June, 2018 at 12:58 am

    In other news Donald Trump is to lead a KKK march through the streets of Washington. Naw really just kidding.

    The KKK started as an arm of the Southern (pro-slavery) Democrat Party. The Republican party started as an anti-slavery movement. Not a lot of people know that. Worth researching – all is not what it seems.

    It’s a funny old world. 🙂

  82. Meg merrilees says:

    Personal rant below:

    Well, that’s it, folks. They really are reaching the bottom of the barrel they’ve been scraping out for some time now…

    Darling Arlene has accepted the invitation to attend the OO march in Cowdenbeath, but the DUP are refusing to say whether she will attend.

    Thanks Ruth Davidson, congratulations, your bigoted, arrogant, desperate attempt to retain power has brought sectarianism back to the centre of Scottish culture. You should be so ashamed of taking your country back decades.

    The people who grace this website have a vision of a better Scotland but you, single handedly have encouraged, racists, bigots and sectarian weirdoes to flock to your party in your pathetic attempt at a politics of hate and rejection.

    I’m a Catholic and I wonder what your Catholic fiancé thinks about all this.

    Ruth Davidson for First Minister – no chance, I know that the people of Scotland want a better future and a better Scotland than anything you could ever imagine.

    Bring back Annabelle Goldie, at least she had manners and respect for people.

  83. Dr Jim says:

    It’s even worse than different religions folks us separatists are a !*VIRUS!*

  84. Macart says:

    Peat worrier hitting the nail on the head.

  85. robertknight says:

    Truth Davidson best not get too cozy with those Demented Ulster Puritans.

    Given her sexuality, there are plenty in the ranks of the DUP who’d probably enjoy her becoming aquatinted with the stocks, or the ducking stool, or a branding iron perhaps.

  86. Greannach says:

    I’m sure Mr Kelly is a very nice man.
    I’m certain Mr Rennie is a very sincere gent.
    I have no doubt that Ms Wells is a charming lady.

    But these and their ilk are alleged to be national legislators, not a bunch of randoms having a chinwag at the pub.

    Where do the British nationalist parties find these people?

  87. Macart says:


    SNAP! Just posted a twatter link to the same story for folk that can’t go through the pay wall. Spookily I’d posted earlier on the indyref 2 site my own thoughts on Ms Davidson.

    Ms Davidson is neither moderate or centrist. Only in the fantasy world of the media is she anything like popular and only in that environment is she presented as any kind of serious politician. Mainly because she very rarely receives anything like due scrutiny and, and, and… reasons, squirrels etc. She is a media marketing creation. All sound bite and photo op, with a veneer of jolly hockey sticks precisely one atom in depth. A person propped by the votes she took from Labour and who courts and supports the very worst aspects of our society in order to retain those votes. Votes gained in a race to see which of the two had the best line in isolationist/intolerant politics.

    There is no statesperson in waiting here. No great political thinker. No one who you’d even consider linking with a duty of care to a population and THAT is the day job of a First Minister. A duty of care for ALL of your population.

    There is the media’s reality and then there is reality. (ends)

    They were brief. It’s all you need know about the subject tbh. Shallow as a puddle and as Peat Worrier puts it ‘a charlatan’. One with a belief in nothing but her own media inflated self worth.

  88. jfngw says:

    May be good news about Arlene Foster leading an OO march. What better advert for Yes than a NI politician that looks like she is trying to laud it over Scotland. She may appeal to a certain West of Scotland contingent but I doubt the rest of Scotland will be impressed.

    This is the person that says yea or nay to UK government policies, currently holds no official office and has more control over Scotland at Westminster than the 35 SNP MP’s.

    What better advert can there be for independence and to rid our street of this sectarian nonsense.

  89. Nana says:

    Rajoy has resigned, good riddance

  90. Nana says:

    @ Macart,

    well said

    “All sound bite and photo op with a veneer of jolly hockey sticks precisely one atom in depth”


  91. Colin Alexander says:

    Davido said:
    31 May, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    “Don’t forget that The Greens waved this discrimination charter through. No second vote for them ever again”.

    I say: Don’t forget the Scottish Green Party voted for the SNP budgets AND it was with the votes of the Greens that Indyref received the backing of the Scottish Parliament.

    Which votes mattered most?

  92. Capella says:

    @ Nana – good news about Rajoy. Some hope at last for the Catalan political prisoners. The next steps will be intersting.

  93. Normski says:

    And while we are on this subject – Arlene Foster is heading to Scotland later this month to help stir up bigotry and sectarian hatred.

  94. Macart says:


    Good news on Mr Rajoy, but I’d rather hope that it doesn’t end with him. Spain has some fairly urgent issues with its democracy and with its international persona.

  95. mike cassidy says:


    Just caught up with that Richard Madeley interview.

    You have to watch it to the end to discover that the Gavin Williamson puppet is being operated badly – by an elephant.

  96. Fred says:

    Will Arlene Foster also use the environs of Glasgow University to add gravitas to a crock of shit, as did Ruth Davidson.

  97. Bob Mack says:

    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap” — Napoleon.

    Knew his stuff did Napoleon, and Kelly proves him right.

  98. Merkin Scot says:

    If we continue to elect fudricks like that Kelly guy, then we deserve to be colonised by the Bullingdon Boys as well as the Billy Boys. The new Rangers away strip with the Union Flag motif is only the start of yet another sectarian Unionist campaign.

  99. Nana says:

    Capella and Macart

    here’s what I’ve been able to find re the ousting of Rajoy and the way ahead.

    Rajoy resigns. Use page translate

  100. Golfnut says:

    ‘re Kelly.

    Are candidates not selected by Labour central?

  101. Nana says:

    One more for today

    Exclusive: Cabinet ministers poised to back max fac customs option as Irish border solution breaks Brexit deadlock

  102. Robert Peffers says:

    @jfngw says: 31 May, 2018 at 9:03 pm:

    ” … If you want a physical definition of glaikit, I can offer you no better.”

    I’m not so sure about that, jfngw. The Lowland Scots language that has the term, “glaikit”, is a wonderfully descriptive language and has a plethora of descriptive terms for such as James Kelly. Among them Gomerel, sodie-heid and muckle wantin.

    I recall my Grandmother describing such a person as James Kelly as, “Yon glaikit glowrin gomerel”. I find her description fits Mr Kelly to the proverbial tee.

    The Scottish accountancy unit of the London Labour Party has rather a lot to answer for including, of course, The SMSM’s adoption of the obviously wrong term they use to describe London Labour in Scotland. There is no such political party as, “Scottish Labour”.

    A fact being driven home to more & more of the peoples of Scotland by the Scottish Media’s use of the term, “Scottish Labour”. is that they simple do not exist.

    BTW: There is also virtually no such thing as a “Scottish Main Stream Media”. It is the Westminster Establishment propaganda media. As time goes by they increasingly speak with one voice, as do the three party unionist consortium that is the unified opposition at Holyrood

    Their problem now is that their increasingly unsubtle united front in both Holyrood and the media has become so obviously false as Dolly Parton’s mammaries.

  103. wee bud says:


    I know what you mean with the strong holds of orange bigots in the west of Scotland but can we at least blame the east coast knuckle dragger’s for this invite.. Kilwinning lodge will be raging they never thought of this pile of steaming shit first..

  104. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    90% of the people of Scotland will not read the Growth Commission Report

    They will however read or hear the media’s reports on it.
    That is the reality and I thought we might have learned something from the treatment the White Paper got before the referendum.

    We have provided our opponents lots of targets when the one thing they can’t fire against us is the fact that we are an able, clever, industrious and well resourced people and not to poor or too stupid to run our one country – and we will choose how we run ourselves once we get there.

    How many of the 70,000 on that march in Glasgow need a Growth Commission to get their banners flying?

    I am persuaded that there is lots of good stuff in the Growth Commission report and I don’t for one minute doubt that. But that is not my point.

  105. Robert Louis says:

    So neo fascist Rajoy is no longer PM of Spain. Good. Let’s hope the next time we hear of time he is being jailed for corruption, which is utterly rife within his party.

    Now, can Spain try to behave like a modern democracy and put the fanatics in the Guardia Civil back in their boxes.

  106. schrodingers cat says:

    davis cunning new plan for brexit is to make the border 10 miles wide…….

    lol, arlene foster lives in that area

  107. bjsalba says:

    Er um Stu

    “We’ve been trying to think of a funny way to satirise that for a little while now, but to be honest we’re still drawing the thing between James Kelly’s ears.”

    Just exactly how do you draw a completely empty space?

  108. Robert Peffers says:

    @jfngw says: 31 May, 2018 at 9:29 pm:

    ” … Remember the Barnett formula is the financing of Scotland based on the spending requirements of England.”

    Well, jfngw, the Barnett Formula is NOT as you describe it.

    You have confused the, “Barnett Formula”, with, “Barnett Consequentials”.

    The Barnett Formula is simply the calculated sum taken from the United Kingdom, (a.k.a. country of England), Ministries to fund the devolved functions that were taken from these ministries and granted to the parliaments/Assemblies of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. BTW: also remember that Wales and N.I. are also funded by Barnett Formula Grants. Although, mainly due to the efforts of the Westminster Establishment’s SMSM, you would think only Scotland is so funded.

    Barnett Consequentials can be both positive and negative and occur because only the country of England is now funded by these United Kingdom Ministries directly by the Treasury as The United Kingdom.

    Thus, during an annual term, if the Treasury either increases or decreases the funding for “The United Kingdom”, they create a, “Barnett Consequential”, as only the country of England now comprises, (for funding), The United Kingdom and has no Barnett Formula Grant.

    In short Barnett Consequentials redress the annual imbalance due to the country of England only being treated by Westminster as the United Kingdom and thus Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are being treated as English/United Kingdom dominions.

    It is harder to describe this than it is to understand – but these are the facts.

  109. Andy-B says:

    I just don’t get it, why would voters vote in such a numbskull as James Kelly, the man has absolutely no business to be in Holyrood
    let alone speak on matters such as the OBFA.

    I can only imagine what a desolate waste land Scotland would be if Kelly was FM. It doesn’t bear thinking about.

  110. Breeks says:

    If there was ever any doubt that the Unionists would deliberately seek to aggravate sectarianism as a means to keep Scotland subjugated by the Union, then I would present James Kelly, the Dalai Davidson, and Arlene Foster, and not three brain cells between them.

    Not only a disgrace and an insult to Scotland, but actually a disgrace and an insult to Unionism.

    Be strong Scotland. The time is coming when Scotland can finally purge itself of this engineered sectarian blight upon our society, and wash our country clean of it. Catholics, Protestants, disinterested neutrals, let us be rid of it, and the despicable Union which nurtures it, once and forever.

  111. jfngw says:

    @Robert Peffers

    I somehow feel my one liner, even if it not a full description of Barnett, is more punchier.

    Even if Barnett is easy in principle to understand, I’ve found that trying to find out the actual percentages seem to be clouded in mystery. Are they the same for all services, do they vary dependent on when it was introduced. I’ve not found anywhere that quantifies this comprehensively.

  112. Robert Peffers says:

    @Andy-B says: 1 June, 2018 at 11:20 am:

    “I just don’t get it, why would voters vote in such a numbskull as James Kelly … ”

    I can see, and sympathise, with that view, Andy-B, but n fact James Kelly has a democratic right to represent his own kind in a democratic Scottish Parliament.

    Sadly, (for democracy), everyone is entitled to be represented at Holyrood and James Kelly therefore is entitled to represent the views of the people who elected him – or rather, as James is a list MSP, the views of the unionist political party that chose to put James on their list of candidates.

    So there you have the real problem. It is not, (directly), the views of the electorate that James Kelly is there to represent but the views of the Unionist, (Westminster), Labour Party.

    He therefore does his job correctly – he Represents the Westminster Establishment. The way to get rid of James, and the other unionist shills, is to get rid on the union.

  113. galamcennalath says:

    Evening Standard … “Half of Londoners want a new referendum on any Brexit deal struck by Theresa May before Britain leaves the European Union, a YouGov poll reveals today. “

    Which deal?

    The media always presents it in that form.

    This all grates with me. It always seems to be a ‘vote on the deal’, but what is that supposed to mean?

    The only deal which might be known before Brexit is the divorce settlement. We know that already.

    On the face of it it’s simple. The UK pays a big exist fee, signs up to a backstop for Ireland guaranteeing its virtual single market status, EU citizens in the UK / UK citizens in the EU get looked after, and there is a transition period of 21 months. Voila. Straight forward.

    What voters will be more interested in is the future relationship with the EU. IMO nothing clear will emerge until well into the transition period.

    So … voters can only asked about their opinion of the divorce terms pre Brexit. A fudge.

    Also, the same can be said of timing for ScotRef. IF that is to be triggered by ‘the Brexit deal’ then the divorce arrangements will be all we know for years!

    ScotRef related to Brexit can only be triggered by a future trading arrangement outside customs union and single market. That won’t be known until near the end of the transition.

    All this Tory delaying is completely intentional. By the time we all know what’s going to happen, it could be too late to do much about it!

    As for ScotRef, IMO, it should be triggered sooner on much more than just Brexit antics.

  114. Marie Clark says:

    I thought that I was going mad this morning, or maybe a touch of the Mystic Meg.

    I said last night on another thread, that Reuters were reporting that Senor Rajoy had lost the no confidence vote and that Pedro Sanchez would be the new Spanish PM. Then the reports this morning that the vote concluded and he’s out.

    Seems the process started with voting yesterday and formally concluded this morning. So Reuters were right enough last night with their report. Oh well, I better not start telling fortunes then eh.

  115. bjsalba says:

    O/T Here is an unusual item on the Italian “crisis”. It is very very different from many of the other academic Think Tank and blog pieces that I have been reading. It puts the problem clearly in another place.

    I would be curious to know if the author views Brexit as having the same root cause.

  116. Capella says:

    @ Nana – Macart – sounds like the Spanish Socialist Party is similar to New Labour i.e. Unionist. Interesting times.

  117. jfngw says:

    @wee bud

    I grew up in Edinburgh and am aware of the areas around Edinburgh that were a hive for the OO. Basically pick an old mining area and you have it. Saying that I hardly ever encountered an OO march whilst living there, but after moving to Glasgow it is almost a weekly occurrence in the summer. If I can’t see them I can always hear them, even worse was being stuck behind them on a bus trying to get to work.

  118. Archbishop of Dork says:

    David Trimble came to Lanarkshire to lead an OO parade years ago. The difference is Scotland was not then being forced out the EU. Trimble’s party, the UUP, was not propping up a hard right Tory government. The nascent Scottish Parliament was not having it’s powers taken away by a Tory/Unionist government.

    In fact, the main controversy was from some hardline Orangemen in Scotland objecting to Trimble’s visit because he had recently helped bring about the Good Friday Agreement. The same GFA which is now being treated with contempt by the Tories/DUP.

    20 or so years on and Arlene Foster’s leading an OO parade in Cowdenbeath is in that very different context. It’s a direct insult to the people of Scotland who have been working to create a better and bigotry free country through Holyrood.

    Arlene Foster is welcome to come to Scotland for a holiday same as anyone else. But don’t come here as a close political ally of power usurper Theresa May and swagger about to the beat of the lambegs. Trying to lord it over us as our democracy is trashed.

  119. Chick McGregor says:

    Oh ra joy, no more Rajoy.

    Now perhaps Catalan talks can go ahead and exiled politicians return.

  120. Chick McGregor says:

    The Bringlish Brexiteer’s wishful thinking that Italy will follow them into the abyss is deluded.

    Haven’t met too many daft Italians in my life.

  121. Robert Peffers says:

    @Morgatron says: 31 May, 2018 at 10:13 pm:

    “Eh!! Im not mocking his speech impediment if that what makes him incomprehensable. Im stating he can barley speak English.”

    I believe Mr Kelly’s doesn’t have either a speech or other physical, not even a brain impediment. He has an intellectual impediment.

    Thing is he has a democratic right to be an MSP in that he represents the unionist party that installed him on their list.

    Thus Mr Kelly is representing those who chose him – The London unionist Labour Party. The Scottish voters did not choose James Kelly – The Westminster unionist Labour Party did that.

  122. call me dave says:

    Jings! A ‘Scots’ Tory on radio shortbread there (missed name), just getting in the car at the end of the 10am news, doesn’t think Arlene’s visit is a good idea. More later no doubt.

    Scorching in Cowdenbeath this morning. 🙂

  123. Paul Wilson says:

    Is this Labour and the Tories master plan to undermine Devolution? The standard of MSP’s that they put forward wouldn’t look out of place in a Primary School. AS others have said They are a embarrassment to Scotland. What Schools did they attend? They must have been of such a low standard that a Baboon would receive a PHD there.

  124. starlaw says:

    How often are Orange parades held in Cowdenbeath, Ive never heard of any, and looking at the LOL itinerary for this parade I notice not a Scottish band is named, they are mostly from N Ireland with two or three from England what apart from causing a disturbance is the purpose of this march, Cowdenbeath does not have a river Boyne either

  125. Effijy says:

    Question Time last night:

    I can never understand why an SNP representative on the show doesn’t stand up and scream their demand to correct misinformation
    from the Red and Blue Tory panelists.

    Another thing that I hate is the claim by an audience Unionist Stooge that Scotland Voted to stay in the UK so their brexit vote no longer matters when England out vote our wishes?

    Why is SNP not looking at our referendum and explaining that Some Scots Voted No as the Unionist insisted that it was the only why they could stay in Europe?

    They stole the votes from Scots working for HMRC by saying their 3,000 jobs would go unless they voted No.
    The jobs then transferred to England soon after.

    They stole the votes from the Scottish Ship yard workers by promising 13 ships. Another lie delivered.

    They stole the votes in Peterhead where a promise of a £Billion Carbon Capture Pant. Lie!

    They stole the vote of the wind and wave technology employees who would get £3 Billion investment for a No vote.
    You guessed it. Lie Delivered.

    Votes stolen by the promise of extensive new powers.
    Don’t even think accepting the watered down token we received as
    a promise delivered.

    Who about the first thing they do is reward Scotland for their No vote. That turned out to be EVEL that prevents a Scottish Based MP becoming Prime Minister.

    For me this has to be flung right in the faces of Westminster Parties and all media at every opportunity.

    The referendum was a complete and utter lie, confidence trick, a crime, a fraud.

    We demand the right to have a fair and just referendum as soon as we see the disaster that the Tories will deliver as Brexit!


  126. Robert Peffers says:

    @Merkin Scot says: 1 June, 2018 at 10:34 am:

    “If we continue to elect fudricks like that Kelly guy, then we deserve to be colonised by the Bullingdon Boys as well as the Billy Boys.”

    I think you may have the wrong idea there, Merkin Scot.

    “WE”, don’t get the chance to elect such as Kelly or Murdo Frazer – These people were actually already rejected by the electorate and didn’t get to office by a public vote.

    They are selected from a political party list of the respective political party’s Lists. So the public votes for the party and the party selects the party choices in order of the party’s choices.

  127. Luigi says:

    I wonder how all those “Scottish” Labour unionists british nationalist politicians from catholic backgrounds really feel when they see their bedfellows strutting about, decked in orange celebrating the shedding of fenian blood.

    Oops I forgot, certain things should not be asked. 🙁

    Still feeling “better together”?

  128. Tinto Chiel says:

    As Mr Kelly would no doubt render it: “What a maroon!”

    He’s not a good advert for the list system and he’s in pretty bad company.

  129. Proud Cybernat says:

    BREAKING from Pravda Quay
    with Union Jackie Kim Ono:

  130. Dan Huil says:

    Great work from the Rev. Britnat politicians like Kelly continue to wallow in their own ignorance but it’s only WOS and similar pro-indy sites which continue to expose such britnat balderdash.

  131. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill says: 1 June, 2018 at 10:57 am:

    “We have provided our opponents lots of targets”

    So it’s SNP BAAAAD! Yet again then, Dave McEwan Hill?

  132. ScottishPsyche says:

    Last night on QT Loki was a pleasant surprise so credit where it is due – he avoided party politics and acquitted himself well.

    I still can’t understand his voting behaviour in recent elections and the views he puts forward in his newspaper columns, though. He comes across as a complete twat on Twitter and seems extremely susceptible to flattery but maybe just goes to show Twitter brings out the worst in people.

    Kate Forbes could have had a better answer for the Indyref2 question and I agree there always seems to be lost opportunities when the SNP are on. They should look at it as every time could be the only chance they have to say stuff and get the big arguments out there.

    Caroline Flint was arguing the same case as 2014, Brian Soutar surprisingly came across as anxious but was unwavering in his views. The Tory was a Tory. The audience had a good mix and although it seemed very Right-wing at first, a few interesting characters emerged.

    The Indy case was well made but not by as well as it could be by the SNP rep.

  133. Breeks says:

    galamcennalath says:
    1 June, 2018 at 11:44 am
    Evening Standard … “Half of Londoners want a new referendum on any Brexit deal struck by Theresa May before Britain leaves the European Union, a YouGov poll reveals today. “

    Which deal?


    From the outset, everywhere and everything from a Soft Brexit to a cliff edge Brexit has lain beyond Westminster’s capacity to determine or deliver.

    Yes, of course, Westminster might like a Soft Brexit with a bespoke Free Trade Agreement, but at it’s best, that remains nothing more than an aspiration, something the UK might ask for, but getting such a deal is, and always has been, something for the EU to agree to and concede, never something the UK could unilaterally presume, or actually deliver.

    I honestly think Westminster has badly misread the body language, and isn’t doing itself any favours at all, but instead coming across as arrogant and obnoxious when it really ought to be humble and conciliatory. Sadly, it is pretty much to late to change now, and the die is cast.

    Westminster is deluded and very much sees itself as the tail which wags the dog, while Europe is bewildered and incredulous that Westminster can be so thick and utterly delusional. It hardly seems possible a National Government can be so reckless and inarticulate, but it’s the only rational conclusion to be drawn.

    Let’s not be smug however, because while more reasoned to some degree, Scotland’s own declared strategy, that lies somewhere between staying in the EU itself, or merely some lesser Free Trade and Customs Union status is also conditional upon Europe acceding to our request. That remains a Soft Brexit we might hope for… Europe however has been clear and unequivocal from the outset that the four freedoms are not interchangeable or divisible, and you cannot cherry pick your way to an ad hoc deal. We seem recklessly close to asking for Scotland something which the EU has already knocked back and rejected for Westminster.

    Frankly, I’m disappointed with what we have achieved with Europe. It seems rather than committing and helping each other, Europe can only keep Scotland at arms length, because Scotland has yet to commit itself to Europe. It’s not too late to get ourselves onto the same frequency and wavelength, but I fear it may not happen unless or until we commit to EU Membership…

    Rather than waiting until the Autumn, I hope in all sincerity that the SNP conference sees the end of discussion about a fudged Soft Brexit FTA for Scotland, and hardens it’s perspective to reflect the absolute conditions of our own Constitutional Sovereignty, and formal, full, EU Membership negotiated by first principles which currently fall between Articles 48 and 49 of the Lisbon Treaty. The EU found an expedient solution to German reunification, and I feel sure they would be willing to accommodate a bespoke way to resolve the Scottish Membership issues.

    That’s not an SNPbad criticism, even though some might fear it is. It is simply what needs to happen in my humble opinion.

    If Conference ends with Holyrood still woolly headed and undecided about Europe, how can we be any less ambiguous and less woolly headed when it comes to Constitutional Sovereignty? It is the very act of Brexit which sees our sovereignty subjugated. We must prevent Scotland’s Brexit from happening. Anything less is a mortal body blow to our Sovereignty.

  134. Robert Peffers says:

    @jfngw says: 1 June, 2018 at 11:40 am:

    “I somehow feel my one liner, even if it not a full description of Barnett, is more punchier.”

    Punchier it may be but could perhaps lead to more misconceptions among voters.

    “Even if Barnett is easy in principle to understand, I’ve found that trying to find out the actual percentages seem to be clouded in mystery.”

    That’ll be because it is, probably deliberately, clouded in mystery.

    ” … Are they the same for all services, do they vary dependent on when it was introduced. I’ve not found anywhere that quantifies this comprehensively.”

    The points are that in the first place each of Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland have quite different devolved functions and in the second place we don’t know the formula chosen by Westminster to assess the cash values being taken from the Westminster Ministries and devolved to the individual devolved administrations.

    So first of all each devolved administration has different devolved powers and, as each devolved administration has different population numbers each devolved power has a different value, (and here is where the BIG myth springs from), Each devolved administration has different terrain and population densities – this is where the myth that Barnett’s Formula is based upon “Needs”.

    It quite simply originally was just the estimated sums that the individual United Kingdom Ministries assessed they spent in each devolved administration from their United Kingdom Ministry. It must be fairly obvious to anyone that these United Kingdom Ministries were not best pleased to have funding and power’s removed from them and given to, “upstart”, devolved administrations. There would obviously be, perhaps not deliberately, a tendency for those ministries to retain as much funding for themselves as possible.

    It was clear to many right from the start what the consequences of not also devolving powers to the Country of England was going to create. (and I, for one, believe that choice was a deliberate Westminster Establishment plot to achieve what neither the, so called, Union of the Crowns nor the, crooked as hell, Treaty of Union had managed to do.

    Create Westminster as the de facto parliament of the country of England and thus negate the actual terms of the treaty of Union and treat Scotland as a Country of England defeated nation instead of the equally sovereign partner to the Kingdom of England that The Treaty of Union actually is. I also believe that the use of EVEL is proof enough that is the case.

  135. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Robert Peffers at 1.21

    Obviously my point is beyond your comprehension

    “We have provided our opponents lots of targets”

    Can I just repeat that
    “We have provided our opponents lots of targets”
    and add that we have encouraged some of our petulant,self absorbed and unreliable left wing support to do a bit of frothing

  136. Jack Murphy says:

    Off Topic today.
    What we won’t be told by BBC TV.

    “Catalan president takes Rajoy to court”

    “Ousted Spanish president accused of breach of official duty”

    “Catalan president Quim Torra is taking Mariano Rajoy to court for obstructing the formation of a new government.

    Rajoy, ousted as Spanish president on Friday, blocked Torra’s attempt to appoint a cabinet that included pro-independence leaders jailed in Madrid and seeking refuge in other European countries…….”


  137. HandandShrimp says:

    Hard Brexiteer Arlene marching through Cowdenbeath at the head of an OO march. It may warm the cockles of Pamela Nash’s heart and all her little demons at SiU but I am not sure that is going to play all that well for the majority of voters in Scotland. So glad that this is SiU’s problem not ours 🙂

  138. Capella says:

    O/T – Noam Chomsky spells out the danger of Cambridge Analytica in spring 2017 to students at MIT. Do we want to preserve democracy? Or will we allow billionaires to manipulate any vote?

    The success of the Tories in some constituencies in Scotland lllustrate one of the technques used by CA – deter voters from voting.

  139. Fred says:

    Surely James Kelly could be had up for the old Scots charge of “Murmuring a Judge!”

  140. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill says: 1 June, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    “Obviously my point is beyond your comprehension”



    ““We have provided our opponents lots of targets””

    Yes! I read it correctly the first time you typed it.

    “Can I just repeat that”

    Yes, of course you may – but that choice belongs to The Rev Stu and not to me.

    “We have provided our opponents lots of targets”

    Strangely it reads exactly as it did the first and second time of reading. However, it remains the same and is but your own perceived view of the paper and in fact may have, (and I only expound a possible view here), been designed to extract just such reactions as you perceive it to have done.

    I do not give a damn of who or what you are, Dave, and not from any personal animosity but just from reading your expressed views. We all, including myself. hold our own views and we are all not only entitled to hold and express them. There is, however, something just a wee bit different in the comments you frequently post.

    Most commenters, even including Rock, will write something along the lines of, “In my view”, Or, “In my opinion”, but not you. Your normal modus operandi is to begin as you go on to do.

    If you even do say something along the lines of, “In my opinion”, it will be, “In my opinion the SG/Nicola Sturgeon/ the SNP or just the party are wrong”. More often than not, however, it is just. “The SNP are wrong”.

    ” … and add that we have encouraged some of our petulant,self absorbed and unreliable left wing support to do a bit of frothing.”.

    And, (cough!), in my most humble of opinions, that same, “bit of frothing”. of not just those petulant, self absorbed and unreliable left wing supporters but of the unionists and the SMSM have become the very best recruitment we now have for the independence movement and the very worst catalyst there is against the wee bit of frothing is the out and out constant drip! drip! Drip! of SNP BAAD! and statements that they are making mistakes.

    They haven’t made many mistakes and it is they who have brought us to the point of independence and I for one will continue to trust them to do the right thing and will not criticise them on an open forum. That doesn’t mean I do not have any criticism but if I have it will be to their faces at a branch meeting or via email or in party or SG websites.

  141. Robert Peffers says:

    @Jack Murphy says: 1 June, 2018 at 2:11 pm:

    “Off Topic today.
    What we won’t be told by BBC TV.
    “Catalan president takes Rajoy to court”

    Wow! How did I miss that one in my early webscan this A.M.?

    That’s a belter, Jack.

  142. Fred says:

    Brian Wilson’s bizarre notions on Catalonia might be somewhat different if he was battered to the ground with truncheons & left spattered with blood!

  143. Robert Peffers says:

    @HandandShrimp says: 1 June, 2018 at 2:21 pm:

    “Hard Brexiteer Arlene marching through Cowdenbeath at the head of an OO march. It may warm the cockles of Pamela Nash’s heart and all her little demons at SiU but I am not sure that is going to play all that well for the majority of voters in Scotland.”

    It won’t play out well for the residents of Cowdenbeath, for sure. Because of the lay-out of the town the through traffic is quite restrictive. Mind you the A92 by-passes the town but that only partly eases the problems. If a bus or lorry breaks down on the High Street the town is paralysed.

  144. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Fred @ 3.06pm

    We can but hope.

  145. Liz g says:

    Question anybody know when these OO parades actually got started in Scotland?
    I’d guess its no been since 1690… I don’t even think they have happened since then in NI… Otherwise they wouldn’t have got the date wrong!

    But the impression is always given that they have happened every year since 1690,so much so that the few acolytes I’ve managed to ask claim they did!
    Yet I’ve seen no mention of them in Scotland in 1745/46
    even though that had to be around the time their end song was written?

  146. One_Scot says:

    You know there is something really wrong with the political system when clowns like this are able to take a seat in a parliament.

  147. Footsoldier says:

    BBC Scotland website political section says Arlene Foster, DUP leader is to attend Orange parade in Fife.

    No HYS comments permitted and not deemed important enough to merit a mention in the political sections of BBC UK or NI.

  148. call me dave says:

    Found a bit of information on the OO.
    Extract from this link. Page 7.

    Elaine McFarland dates the Orange Order’s first attempt at a full ceremonial Twelfth of July parade in Scotland to 1821.

    She writes:
    Only three lodges took part on this first occasion, parading through the principal streets of Glasgow. Watched by ‘an immense concourse of spectators’ they were roughly handled and
    some had their sashes torn off. . . . In 1822 the pattern was repeated.

    Now seven lodges
    including those from Paisley and Pollokshaws, assembled to march, contrary to the
    magistrate’s proscription, to Fraser’s Hall in King Street. The company met with little
    opposition during the march since it was unexpected. Once inside the hall, however, they were besieged by a number of ‘zealous Irish catholics [sic], most ready to give battle’.
    Police and even military intervention was required and 127 Orangemen were taken into their safekeeping, returning home ignominiously ‘with sashes in their pockets’.

    A parade was again
    threatened for the following year but was cancelled and no public Orange processions seem to have taken place in Glasgow till the 1840s.31

    Interestingly, while 1821 marked the year of Scotland’s first Orange Walk, it was also the year of its first
    media attack. The Orange Walk was criticized by both the Glasgow Courier and the Chronicle.

    A letter published in the latter read:

    With the opinions of the Orangemen the public have nothing to do so long as they keep those opinions to themselves: but what right do the peaceful inhabitants of Glasgow have to be frightened out of their propriety by the wanders through the streets of a set of enthusiasts who . . . are never against having recourse to the shillelah.

  149. starlaw says:

    I believe they were resurrected just before ww1 to counter the Irish Emancipation Act in the early Twentieth Century although they claim it is much older. At one time they were actively engaged along with the Catholics in a struggle against the Church of Ireland.

  150. Is it actually possible to embarrass a labour MSP like James Kelly?

    Its interesting news that Arlene Forster is to attend an OO march in Fife, hopefully enough people will turn out to may it clear that such bigoted marches along with their political supporters have no place in our communities and country.

  151. Greg Drysdale says:

    It’s Jim life but not as we know it

  152. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Rajoy gone doesn’t mean you can go out buying Rioja or booking holidays in Spain. Keep avoiding Spansh businesses.

    They are in early days before anyone can judge if they can return to being civilised.

    I personally doubt if they can sad to say.

  153. starlaw says:

    call me dave

    Your history is more accurate than mine, I bow to your greater knowledge .

  154. Liz g says:

    Call me Dave @ 3.47
    I knew that the claims they marched since 1690 didn’t add up.
    I’d even wonder it’s really happened every year for any great length of time as well….
    Still can’t see what they are for in Scotland though?
    What has an auld Irish battle to do with us,we’ve got battles of our own if remembering battles is a thing!

  155. Sinky says:

    Alyn Smith on Tv5 Monde explain Indy and Brexit in fluent French against Bye Bye Britain background)

  156. Dorothy Devine says:

    I didn’t realise that Fife was an Orange Order enclave . I thought it was much more a west coast failing.

    If it is indeed correct that there are imported bands and strutters then the police should step in and stop it.

    Will Ruthie be marching hand in hand with Arlene – that is the question. Or all of a sudden will the media decide that it is all the SNPs fault , if they didn’t exist there would be no need for these affirmations of British Nationalism.

    Oor Ruthie could ride a bullock at the front.

  157. Foonurt says:

    Mibbae eez dislectic. Mine ye, kid jist bae glaikit.

    Ah richt sumph.

    Yoan heid rid-tie, isnae onnae brichturr.

    Furst Meenisturr’s questions – lik ‘Veeshin Oan’, whinit’s Dick’s shoat. “Wurr gallery today, hiz…. .”

  158. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Peter McCulloch @ 15:53,

    I think that may be precisely the hope. Augmented on the other side by loads of imported Unionists. To “prove” that Scotland is no different really from DUPland o’er the watter. Potentially so torn by strife that only dear old Big Brother Engerland can possibly keep the peace.

    Ideally what we need is another brilliant reception something like the WM Labourite throng received during their mass flying visit in 2014.

    loud hailer: “Welcome your imperial masters, Scottish colonial serfs…”

    With this miserable lot, mockery is by far the best response.

  159. call me dave says:

    I vaguely remember when I was about 8..ish my mother hussling me in the mornings shopping to get a bus from Cowdenbeath to Hill of Beath (White Elephant pub) on the Crossgates end (as buses didn’t go through HOB then) before the OO parade which was due to start later on.

    Sometimes when the wind was blowing in the right direction there was a very faint noise of the OO band in HOB but I never ever attended one to see the spectacle.

    Lots of West of Scotland voices in and about Fife…Influx to Glenrothes new Town (70th birthday this month) very common to hear the lilt. 🙂

    I don’t think it is a certainty Arlene will be there although it’s been publicised widely lots of time for events to play out.

  160. Foonurt says:

    Tickell’s yurr legal hack, tae soartit.

    Wull eez aye fuullah himsull, wae awe thoan ithurr legal pronoonsmints.

  161. Robert J. Sutherland
    1 June, 2018 at 4:24 pm

    What you say has a ring of truth to it, that to “prove” that Scotland is no different really from DUPland o’er the watter.
    Potentially so torn by strife that only dear old Big Brother Engerland can possibly keep the peace.

    Though I just wish there was someway Fife council was able to prevent this shower of bigoted orange men from marching on our streets.

    Because we don’t want Northern Irish politics imported into Scotland

  162. Socrates MacSporran says:

    The quaint and picturesque East Ayrshire village of Cumnock is known as something of an “Orange” enclave, as too are neighbouring hamlets such as New Cumnock and Drongan. Indeed, it has been suggested that, in that part of the world, a picture of King Billy, on his white horse at the Battle of the Boyne was handed-out along with the keys, to new council house tenants – said picture to be prominently dispayed in the living room.

    Some years ago, the “Big Walk” – ie the County Walk and Assembly – the Ayrshire equivalent of the event the Blessed Arlene is due to grace with her presence, in Cowdenbeath – was held in Cumnock.

    Knocking-off from a hard morning’s toil on a local Opencast Coal Site, a few of us ventured into Cumnock for a small libation – unaware that the walk would be passing. However, when the bands struck up, we ventured outside to watch the spectacle.

    A supportive gentleman was running up and down, with a portable tape recorder in his hand, recording the musical efforts of the bands, and, occasionally, inviting marchers to: “Say something for the recording pal.”

    Mostly they settled for a quick: “FTP,” or similar sentiment. Then, the recorder made his big error, he accepted one of our group’s offer to: “Say something into your mike pal.”

    Presented with the mike, “The Red Doc”, in his best Donegal accent, informed the recording star he, the marchers, the band members and most of the spectators were: (I delete the four-letter words): “A shower of bigoted Orange bar stewards.”

    The moral of this story is, never present an opening to a six-foot five, ginger-haired Irishman, who has consumed several pints of Guinness.

    Such criticism is the best response for these bigots.

  163. raineach says:

    Re boycotting Spanish products – please note Rioja comes from Navarre and Euskadi, both Basque/Euskal territories and well supportive of our efforts. I will continue to enjoy the product of an area that celebrated [for I was there] the results of the 2011 election

  164. Bill Hume says:

    List MSPs. We need another independence party. Doesn’t need to do much except say “We will support the SNP at every vote”

    Can’t be that expensive to set up, particularly as they will only have one slogan…..Free Scotland.

    This will reduce the number of unionist MSPs at a stroke.

    Anyone not a member of the SNP fancy doing and crowdfunding this?

  165. William Wallace says:

    Testing posting ability on MT with firefox (problems posting).

  166. William Wallace says:

    Can’t seem to post on off-topic at the moment so I hope you guys don’t mind if I leave this here for the off-topic crew regarding Dumfries gathering.

    Chilling out in some glorious sunshine on the Solway coast just now and ready for the big day tomorrow. Leaving the caravan on site and driving from here past Gretna to Dumfries early morning. If anyone needs a lift give me a shout.

    Drop me a text on zero seven seven six five six seven zero two nine nine if you are meeting up for a pint folks.

    I will probably have my Scotland anonymous mask on, wings flag, saltire laces and hope over fear saltire to make it relatively easy to identify me. Do come and say hello guys and gals as it would be nice to meet you all at last after previous near misses.

    Look forward to seeing you all tomorrow. 🙂

  167. Jason Smoothpiece says:


    Thank you for that I shall research further as I actually enjoy a small red now and again. So long as the Spanish state dont benefit.

  168. Smallaxe says:

    William Wallace,

    Check that number, Will, coming up as invalid!

  169. Gary45% says:

    James Kelly should get the letters OMG after his name.
    James Kelly OMG
    Great news on Rahoy.

  170. Bob Mack says:

    Arlene Foster in Fife? Accidental invite or something way more political given that Root hie has been filling the Tory ranks with Lodge members?

    Sectarian, but Unionist sectarianism again. Always is.

    They create the conditions then control the narrative. Scum.

    A drumbeat for the limited of intellect, the bigots and the downright vile.

  171. Old Pete says:

    Do you think Ruth will be invited to Tea by the staunch DUP leader when she visits Scotland. Or is that a tad to much for Arlene :o)

  172. yesindyref2 says:

    Damn, I’d better not post that these enlightened days, it was something about tea and crumpets.

  173. William Wallace says:

    @ Sma

    I’m such a phone luddite lol. I’ve just asked my partner what my number is and it was nearly right. Zero Seven Seven Five Seven 670299. Drop me a text with your number if you can. Anyone from your area need a lift tomorrow?

  174. Haggishunter says:

    Never understood why yoons wanted to kill the bill…. apart from trying to keep alive decades of hate, sectarian abuse and divide and rule.
    Kelly is a member of a party without direction or talent.

    Was talking to a Brit nat the other day who was trying to convince me to hate Muslims.
    Ended up telling him that’s all you Brit nats have, is hate, fear mongering, greed and oppression.

  175. raineach says:

    James smoothpiece
    Try Ramon Bilboa. Spain must be a better place tonight

  176. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Arlene Foster in Fife at head of LOL ‘stirring up religious hatred’.

    An Anti-Fascist counter demo of the size of AUOB March all stood static on the road at a choke point giving it “No Parasan” should be on the cards.

    Make them turn and head back the same way they came.

    However I fear that’s exactly what the BritNat establishment would want.

  177. robertknight says:

    The good people of Cowdenbeath should shut up shop, roll out the tumbleweed and give the fluorescent clad, knuckle dragging mouth breathers the sort of welcome they deserve. A few signs on main roads leading into the town proclaiming “Ugly Convention This Way ->” should make the point.

    Perhaps Foster and her Demented Ulster Puritans will realise they’re as welcome here as, well, a bigot in a normal civilised society.

  178. Gary says:

    I feel so ashamed that we live in a country where we actually STILL have sectarianism and it is not against the law.

    It’s like the Labour, Tory and Liberal parties actually WANT us to be sectarian, like they are canvassing the votes of the haters by trying to remove the laws pertaining to it.

    It makes me sick to my stomach that they want to remove this law. “It unfairly targets football supporters” they say. Well I say it FAIRLY targets football supporters.

    Football matches, obviously Old Firm games in particular, are where sectarianism is LEARNED! I can’t for the life of me understand how this can be legal in a modern, forward looking country.

    We’ve had ‘initiatives’ of ‘volountary codes’ for the clubs. I remember seeing both Old Firm managers on TV promoting one a few years ago about keeping religion and hatred out of football. Utterly meaningless, these teams get their support by BEING sectarian. Supporters may have a local team they support but they’ll support one of the Old Firm based on their religious hatred upbringing.

    I live across the street from an Old Firm Supporters Club (I won’t say which town or which team, lest I be seen to be ‘unfairly targeting football supporters’) but after all the talk of keeping ‘reigion’ out of football what did I see one fine Saturday morning last year?? Well, I HEARD it before I saw it – it was an Orange Order march from the ‘Old Firm’ supporter’s club. Fully decked out in their uniforms and with brainwashed children too, being brought up to mindlessly hate. Now, with the BEST will in the world, EVEN the Orange Order describe themselves as a ‘religious organisation’ so what happened to the ‘initiative’ they trumpeted so loudly? Could it be that it was lip service, they’re not interested, they get all their money from bigots?? Maybe??? Answers on a postcard to…

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