All change and no change
Some quick thoughts on the EU elections, then.
Despite in some ways being the most tumultuous election result in UK history (in terms of the near-destruction of the two main parties), it also changed almost nothing.
In England and Wales, despite the success of the Lib Dems and Greens, the overall vote share of pro-Brexit parties went up to around 58% – an increase of 6 points on the 2016 referendum result. The Brexit Party got noticeably more votes than UKIP did when winning in 2014, and UKIP also held onto a few points.
Remainers like Alistair Campbell and the leader of Plaid Cymru attempted to put a positive spin on the figures by refusing to acknowledge Labour votes as being for a Brexit party – despite Labour’s official policy of carrying out Brexit being clearly and repeatedly stated in manifestos and by the leadership – and arguing that both Labour’s voters and MPs back Remain by large majorities.
But while perfectly true, that was already factored into the result. Labour Remainers defected en masse to the Lib Dems, Greens and SNP tonight, hence the slashed share. It seems a fair supposition that those who stuck with Labour at this election would have been largely from the sizeable minority within the party that’s pro-Brexit, and can therefore be legitimately counted towards the Leave total.
GOOD NIGHT (rUK)
1. Brexit Party
2. Lib Dems
3. Greens
4. Plaid Cymru
5. Labour
6. Conservatives
7. Change UK
8. UKIP
BAD NIGHT
In Scotland, the result was almost identical to the EUref itself, at around 62% Remain. The SNP and Lib Dems gained about 8 points each (+/- 1), while TBP increased the 2014 UKIP vote by about 50%. All three will feel justly pleased with themselves.
The Greens, whose vote shot up by around 50% in England (from 8% to 12%) stalled in Scotland, their share basically unmoved since 2014 despite surprise backing from a major Sunday tabloid. Voters refused to engage with what many saw as a cynical and transparent attempt to split the pro-independence vote.
The Tories were relegated from 3rd place to 4th, but the evening’s biggest losers were Scottish Labour, who shed close to two-thirds of their vote and ended up dropping from a close 2nd to a distant 5th place with a humiliating single-figure share, only barely managing to pip the Greens thanks to the aforementioned stalling
(Had the Scottish Greens mirrored the UK Greens’ rise, they’d have beaten both Labour and the Tories, which would have been quite something.)
So really, the two sides merely rearranged the deckchairs. The Brexit Party took all the headlines but largely just resprayed the UKIP vote. The SNP gained a seat and pretty much held their current polling figures for Westminster and Holyrood, which is actually an unusually good performance for them in a European election (where they normally tend to get less than in domestic votes), but still not exactly earth-shattering.
The Lib Dems will be disappointed to have been pipped to 2nd but pleased to now have an MEP – the most they could have hoped for – and the Tories will at least be happy to have narrowly held onto their solitary one. Labour, who previously had two, were wiped out, losing in David Martin one of their least incompetent, least viciously tribal representatives in Scotland. (Which admittedly isn’t saying much.)
GOOD NIGHT (SCOTLAND)
1. SNP
2. Brexit Party
3. Lib Dems
4. Conservatives
5. Greens
6. UKIP
7. Labour
BAD NIGHT
All of this may be academic. The MEPs elected tonight may never take their seats. But either way it doesn’t change our assessment of what the current state of the parties means for UK politics. This result only strengthens the probability of a no-deal Brexit.
Because if this is what English and Welsh voters do to the major parties as a warning, God knows what they’d do if Brexit ended up not happening at all.
Sobering reading but all things will come to pass. What an example Wee Scotia could set if the bigoted knuckledraggers could for once act for the common good of us all.
A sincere well done to all independenistas!
Sadly those following the advice of the pro-union sunday mail and it’s sister paper the daily circulation dropping got what we all predicted – a brexit mep.
Totally agree re: no deal brexit more likely now.
Said this last week, the only way to neuter TBP is to give English voters their Nirvana, a no deal brexit on 31st October by the latest.
Then of course, even if WM wanted to revoke A50 and remain IN the EU, however unlikely (pretty much zero i would suggest) that means dozens of hard core righ lt win nutter MEP’s representing the UK gov at Brussels, despite Farage not having a single WM MP !!
That just won’t be allowed to happen, so out it is, as the article above says.
TBP are unlikely to be an electoral threat unless either A.50 is revoked of further extended.
Oct 31 is the last chance for WM to cut the legs from under them.
Any extension beyond October and the implications for the next GE are starkly obvious and frankly terrifying.
Not a Labour voter but sad to see David Martin has lost his seat. He seemed like good guy. But very happy the SNP has won 3 seats.
Delighted SNP gained a seat, terrified a hard no deal Brexit will be forced on Scotland, and the consequences and repercussions of that are quite frankly terrifying, if Scotland continues to be shackled to the colonial masters, ever more right wing at that.
What should Scotland do now?
I saw Guy, I can’t spell his surname, head of EU or sonething like that, top job anyway, saying how delighted he is with Libdems, again, on twitter. What the heck is his deal in ignoring the SNP these days! He seems in love with the Libdems!
Just think…we are doing this without the help of any msm outlets. The clamour over UKexit from down south gets worse and worse and they have nowhere to go but back to those shitebag Libdems, who wouldn’t be anywhere near these results if it wasn’t for the walloping Tory/Lab incompetence.
I think we can be very proud of Scotland tonight. Of ourselves and how steady we are remaining in the face of an ever increasing hostile environment.
We are holding steady and we will win this.
Artyhetty @ 02:55,
Verhofstadt is leader of the ALDE (Liberal) group in the EU parliament. Which is why he campaigned for the LibDems last week. It’s strictly party-political.
Though we could well do with something more statesmanlike.
@Artyhetty
Guy Verhofstadt leads the Liberal grouping (Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe) in the European Parliament, so that’ll be why he’s celebrating the LibDem gains in England. Yes, he does seem to have a bit of a blind spot where Scotland is concerned!
@Robert J Sutherland
Snap 🙂
Lynne @ 03:23,
Heh, heh. (Great minds and all that. Though in such crossovers I’m usually the slower typist.)
I am happy to see the SNP gain a seat and I am happy that I was part of that in simply putting my X next to them on the ballot paper.
The Brexit Party did as well as I expected down south. The political gulf between Scotland and the rest of the UK is widening. Scotland must eject itself from the plummeting British plane before it crashes to the ground.
Watch this space. The media will soon be underplaying the SNP vote in Scotland and try to spin it to seem that we are really pro-Brexit too.
How many Scottish nationalist Brexiters voted for the Brexit Party I wonder?
A fantastic result for Scotland , one very determined step forward to defend its democratic borders. Another referendum will complete the journey.
Scotland is a nation in waiting,ideologically separated from rUK, this is normal.
Isn’t it the casein Scotland that the anti Scottish independence voters who usually Vote Labour or Tory have voted lib dem or brexit party in these EU elections.
I reckon a large chunk of the increased lib dem vote in Scotland is people who are anti Scottish independence who predicted that Labour and Tory in Scotland were in for big losses so they voted tactically to keep the anything other than SNP vote strong.
And I think many of them are the English people living on mainland Scotland as opposed to the many English people living on Orkney and Shetland who moved from their usual lib dem vote to a brexit party vote thus causing a slight dip in the still strong lib dem result on Orkney and Shetland but also causing a strong brexit party vote on Orkney and Shetland when added to the indigenous brexit party vote there.
This is why we see the overall remain in EU vote pretty much unchanged.
The ten percent of Scotland’s population who are English people will have a big say in all our elections here in Scotland because moving over the border from England to Scotland to work here does not change their political views it hardens them they feel pretty much the same as you are seeing played out in England itself and in this EU election they have rallied around the two anti SNP anti Scottish Independence Party,s they thought would be most successful on the night namely the lib dems and the brexit party
So many comments see these EU election results in Scotland as progress for Scottish independence and although I agree to a degree that it is , I would say that the anti Scottish independence vote is still strong they are just moving around trying to find somewhere that fits both their anti Scottish independence and their brexit vote whatever their brexit vote is .
so if they are anti Scottish independence but pro EU they voted lib dem
If they are anti Scottish independence and a brexiter they voted brexit party
Some dunces in Scotland voting Brexit. Have they not got access to the internet?
David Martin did not support Independence until his position was threatened. Ie Brexit.
The Brexit non Party are just UKIP in disguise and are polling 16% in a GE. So much for all the hype.
The LibDems who caused all the mess. ConDems austerity and unnecessary cuts. Cut NHS, Education and Welfare spending. Killing people. Lying hypocrites. Gaining. Covered up child abuse.
Brexit will never happen. The Tories are toast. Into oblivion they go. Roll on Independence.
Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.
There are 2/3% people from the rest of the UK voters. 6% of the Scottish pop is from elsewhere in Britain. Take away the children and non voters.
I think the people from other EU countries who live in Scotland probably voted in high numbers for SNP it was their only reasonable option given that
Lib Dems vote with Tory and Labour to keep Scotland under the control of England
and the overall UK vote was in favor of brexit
and Westminster will force Scotland out of the EU because of England’s brexit wish
One must conclude that the Lib Dems are really a brexit party in Scotland despite what they say.
The yellow map of Scotland tells you all you need to know.
Well done the people of Scotland for being inclusive Europeans.
Pity about Orkney & Shetland but the once proud vikings prefer to kneel down and kiss their London masters feet. Total surrender.
@Terry callachan
Terry where is your evidence, I’m English and have voted SNP since the 80s.
Without any links to backup your assertion, it’s just your opinion and nothing else.
And if anything its unhelpful.
SNP even won Edinburgh South, Labour’s safest seat as Tories shun ultra unionist Ian Murray
And of course the people who voted for the Brexit party, did so to have hard brexit delivered. Except the one thing every single brexit party MEP cannot do, is deliver brexit in any shape or form. You might be tempted to call brexit party voters a bit thick.
Meanwhile, the arithmetic in the HoC remains unchanged. Having given this some thought, a smart man would not touch the Tory leadership in these circumstances with a barge pole. It was a poisoned chalice when Theresa took over, and is even more poisoned now.
And the fact remains, that through ALL of this, the Labour party and its utterly vacuous leader, have shown no leadership and no original thought whatsoever. Utterly, utterly useless. Steadfastly, Corbyn clings to the same old rhetoric, the same old perspective and the same old lies. The man is a disgrace, and will likely be remembered as possibly the most inept Labour leader in the party’s history.
Lynne at 3.22am
Verhofstadt is utter slime. He doesn’t only have a blind spot about Scotland. He praised the work of Spanish paramilitaries beating up grannies trying to vote in Catalonia’s referendum as “the rule of law”.
Today’s Herald front page is totally disgusting. Huge photo of Farage declaring him the winner. Top story by unionist hack Tom Gordon about Farage’s triumph. The Yooun Herald now working on the basis that Scotland does not exist.
Shortbread this am. Intro – SNP dominates European elections. Follow up response from Nicola Sturgeon?
No chance – it was Farage gloating about his success, followed by contributions from UK Labour, Tories and Lib Dems.
Jesus freaking wept.
Those results were cataclysmic on so many levels and make me more optimistic than I already was.
The Brits really are revolting and the English are at last showing that they are waking up and willing to bite back. That is exactly what will bring about an understanding between the Scots and the English that the Brits are a plague on both their houses.
Corbyn’s ideological Labour are toast – to be taken over in the very near future in England by the Green Party. The Tories are disintegrating.
The SNP continues to grind down the Brits in Scotland. The Tories’ little helpers in the British Labour Party in Scotland will not be much of a help from here on. What a shame.
Anyway,
Well done SNP.
Comic turn of the night was the interviews with Lesley Laird and Neil Finlay as they squirmed while talking total pish.
Nicola showed her quality with her magnanimous statement of sympathy for David Martin – surely a place will be found for him to contribute to Scotland’s future.
The knives will now be out for Leonard.
Davidson doing her usual disappearing act when faced with the truth.
There must be something wrong with my TV. Suddenly Ruth Davidson isn’t on it.
Hi undeadshaun…your post of 7.04am .
Agreed, it is just my opinion.
That is politics.
Even the information presented as facts in UK politics are just opinions , facts are well hidden in brexit anti Scottish independence UK
New pastime in Scotland, ‘where is davidson’?
As usual, following appalling results, she does a runner. She’ll be in hiding for few weeks now, then come back once again, with the same old anti Scotland sh*te.
Davidson gone missing and also big brave Mundell.
I do wonder if some labour will jump ship from labour to a SNP or lib Dems.
The Herald is a Brit nat paper and should remove any reference to Scotland in their name. At least that would be honest. Naw they wont do it.
Which is the bigger group
Anti Scottish independence remainers who will vote for Scottish independence to remain in EU
OR
Anti Scottish independence brexiters
.
Stu, nice article written I suspect through bleary and weary eyes at daft-o-clock in the morning.
Given your penultimate sentence, my belief is that UK Parliament will stop a NO BREXIT at 31st October 2019 as they already voted for that.
I suspect that England and its newspapers will blame Scotland and especially the SNP for us doing a “1979/SNP/Thatcher” repeat. This time, in 2019, the SNP MPs will have helped to euthanise NO BREXIT.
If England then decides subsidy-junky Scotland must go, that is what will happen. Even if England has to reverse-engineer it, as you spotted several weeks ago…
https://wingsoverscotland.com/independence-for-england-now/
THAT petition jumped 4,000 additional votes from 11,000 within 3 days of the WoS article.
If England left the UK this way and thereby secured ENGZIT, that would be an incredibly good result for Scotland.
Scotland would eventually secure its independence AND keep membership of the EU.
The wrinkle in this is Scotland – Wales – NI winding-up rUK, but frankly by the time we reach this stage it is just an orderly closing down of a defunct institution.
Meanwhile, in London/England telly world, …’SSShh, don’t mention Scotland or the SNP’.
Utterly incredible.
But here’s a wee pointer for the elusive ‘Scotland’s next first minister’ Davidson, The Tories now have only 4 MEP’s across the entire UK, whereas the SNP have 3 just in Scotland alone.
To Al -Stuart..your post of 8.01am
I don’t think there’s any chance of that happening whatsoever.
England keeps control of Scotland not just for its resources but for control of this island as a whole including wales of course , they will never lose control of Wales because a whole third of the people living in wales now are English people.
The strength that England gets by controlling the whole island is immense on a global scale allowing England to appear a bigger force than it actually is by represent itself by much more prominent names
“Britain” “ Great Britain” “ United Kingdom”
If England lost control of Scotland and just became england it would lose self esteem it would shrink its power and effect on the world stage and that would lose it money and power can you imagine England going to war with Iran or Iraq or Syria on its own ? I can’t.
Take on the EU Election fallout from James Kelly (Scotgoespop):
“It’s big, it’s decisive: the SNP have won the European elections in Scotland by a landslide”
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/05/its-big-its-decisive-snp-have-won.html?m=1
“Yesterday I posted a list of benchmarks for SNP success, and the party has sailed past all of them – including the one I was most dubious about, ie. the 36.9% share of the vote achieved in the 2017 general election.”
Congratulations to the SNP for increasing its vote share and probably having an extra MEP.
David Martin (Labour) lost his MEP seat. As he never answered my letter sent to his office in Scotland and at the EU, I have two reasons to be pleased with the Euro results.
I would have liked the Scottish Green Party to get a seat or two but overall a good result for Scotland.
Hopefully another step forward on the road to Scotland’s democratic freedom.
The Sick Unionist media still going let’s play down SNP with any kind of desperate spin they can muster.
Love the Propaganda Quay statement this morning where SNP didn’t get 38% of the vote,
They only got 37.9%. lol
Also with SNP already having half of the Scottish EU parliament seats
Shortbread Quay propose that SNP “May’ increase its number of seats?
No BBC. They have increased their number of seats but don’t you start
Using the truth in your reports or we could all become confused.
For wee shouty Truthless who the BBC proclaim is the next First Minister! lol
With less than half of the Scottish electorate actually voting and your
Westminster fascist party’s Northern outpost landing 12% of the votes cast,
It translates to only 1 member in 20 of the Scottish electorate votes Colonel Yadaftie.
These stats and the fact to Scotland has never given the Tories a majority in any kind
Of election during my 60 odd years on this planet give a crystal clear picture that Tories
and 2 faced shouty wee bullies will never have a future here.
For that Dick Leonard, please don’t use Jackie Bailie’s calculator.
With the worst Tory Party and Prime Minister in history your incompetent
Champagne Socialist Party couldn’t get your percentage of the votes into
double figures!
Labour’s North Accounting Unit still came in behind the Tories
In 5th and only 1% away from being 6th behind the Greens.
Yet again Dick, it’s time to pass the leadership parcel if you can find
Another Patsey dumb enough to try and defend the indefensible.
Don’t think Dickie lasted long enough to join the Ermine robe socialist
In London but I’m sure they can find a further Education establishment
Who could give you some kind of role and keep you off the Universal Dis-
Credit figures.
For the Fib Dems, they owe everything to the shear incomptetance
Of Tories and Labour and a lucky break that the gulable seemed to
Believe Lord Steel couldn’t hear properly as Cyril Smith discussed
His abuse of young children.
Phew Scotland what a result 🙂
Look at that!
https://twitter.com/tomfrench85/status/1132797597415026688
https://news.gov.scot/news/first-minister-to-visit-dublin-1
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/leo-varadkar-to-meet-scottish-first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-in-dublin-926715.html
https://yesannandale.wordpress.com/2019/05/26/ruths-regional-directive-how-to-alienate-a-nation/
Global media cold war started by the US.
UK strangely not following the USA in excluding Chinese phone giant.
Trolls bots and Cyborg bots. How our views and opinions are manipulated by warring nations
https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/1574449086023905/?t=9
Sunday Politics Scotland – 26/05/2019
In a seven minute interview this was the only Boris Johnson related question asked. Missing was any reference to the stories below.
Click the link below the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6sQiy-mno&feature=youtu.be
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/05/its-big-its-decisive-snp-have-won.html?m=1
https://theorkneynews.scot/2019/05/23/rights-of-the-child-to-be-set-into-scots-law-have-your-say/
Labour wiped out in Scotland amid SNP surge
http://archive.fo/r4ViH
https://www.arcofprosperity.org/european-democracy/
https://www.shaunynews.com/2019/05/23/what-would-we-be-like-if-the-internet-wasnt-invented/
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/05/26/why-we-need-public-country-by-country-reporting/
Wonder if the Ruth Davidson party for the promotion of Ruth Davidson got a reply to that message she wanted to send? 😎
Labour though… Ooft! That’s going to leave a nasty mark.
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/theresa-may-mental-health-achievement-legacy-austerity
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/martin-shipton-comes-welsh-independence-16332945
This just about sums up the English result
https://twitter.com/EveryCountry/status/1132780780554457088
Fantastic to see @ScotGovFM here in the Royal Irish Academy speaking to a full house.
https://twitter.com/scotgovireland/status/1132909348378808321
That’s all for today.
@ Nana
Mornin’ Nana. Just in time for that cuppa. 🙂
Please ease off Wee Ruth Davidson as you must consider
That her non appearance could be due to breast feeding?
Mundell- No Biting now!
Morning Macart. Sun is shining and I’m away to enjoy it.
Top UK scientist urges people to take vitamin D supplements
http://archive.fo/zs8Q3
and Nicola says
https://twitter.com/eliz_lloyd/status/1132911279297966080
🙂
A Dhia Dhia! welcome back to marginalization and ItsAllAboutEnglandism. ‘Scots’ print media report Farage coup, BBC insists Brexit party did well all over ‘the country’ etc. Blink and you’d miss references to SNP polling well, phenomenally well or even best ever.
Essentially, the status quo ante returns. BritPolitics as big a dogs dinner as ever.
SNP has a unique selling point, not saving the UK from quitting the EU but securing independence and Scotland’s sovereign right to its place in the world.
Golden Scotland on the UK map shouts ‘la différence écossaise‘
No more Stop Brexit….No more Progressive Alliances with Unionist parties….Let’s just talk independence.
SNP = Scotland’s Nobody’s Puppet
Huge question for the Londoncentric, pro-Union media; how do we spin this to keep the Jocks on-board?
I don’t think they can.
BUT, an even bigger question for the SNP – what do we do now?
It is almost time for Nicola & Co to show their hand, just how do they, against opponents who will tell any lie, break any rule, to keep our wealth available to them, get Scotland what it so-clearly wants, it’s continuing place in Europe.
When, and how, do they force England to recognise – the Union is over, England is going down one road, Scotland another?
Things are about to get nasty I fear.
Phew, too.
The question for me is, beneath the apparent surface posturing of the SNP in British politics, is the FMs/SNPs consistent, patient and broad strategy of appealing to the reasonableness of former NO voters bearing fruit?
I’d say undoubtedly, YES.
And the harvest is yet to come. Absolutely.
I’m increasingly of the opinion that the English and the Stockholm syndrome Welsh need a properly hard Brexit and the chaos which will result and the humiliation which will follow to realise that the world has changed and they need to change with it or be irrelevant. The English are DESPERATE not to be irrelevant.
They will crash out, flounder about, realise negotiating with the EU HAS to happen and their choices are accept the odious deal, with the EU LOVES, or ask nicely to be let back in with promises of no more EU referendums ever. There will have to be a law passed which puts some sort of constitutional lock on calling an EU referendum for the EU to trust Westminster again.
The Question is: how feart is Nicola? and will we have to wear this with NO indyref on the horizon to point to to ask we be set in aspic whilst we vote Yes? I’m less and less confident.
If the SNP don’t get their comfortable managerialist act in gear and start acting like an Independence supporting party I will have to become a full time Green voter and spoil my ballot paper when they aren’t standing locally. The SNP has to FEEL our impatience. I don’t think it did last night. More comfortable congratulations and more jobs for the girls and boys.
I liked David Martin who was clearly pro-European. However he aligned and remained loyal to a Party which is against Scottish Independence and who as a party tried to achieve a Brexit deal with the Tories.
He typified Scottish Labour – their principles are shelfed to align with the hand wringing abstainers. They will follow the English isolationist position regardless of the views of the Scottish people and the damage to Scotland that will follow.
We would not be here but for the Better Together Team of Tories, Labour and LIBDEMS. Remember that the LibDem position is still UNION first and that if a 2nd. Brexit vote delivered a majority via English votes to Leave (again) the LibDems would take us out on WTO terms in the Union.
Ruth the mooth has also been sent a clear message based on her own campaign statement against a 2nd Independence Referendum.
The UK is now heading rapidly to the Far Right of politics. Do you want to see life under a Johnson Tory/Farage Brexit and Foster DUP coalition?.
They could be in power for a very, very long time. It will make Thatcher look like Keir Hardie
@Undeadshuan says: 27 May, 2019 at 7:04 am:
… “Without any links to backup your assertion, it’s just your opinion and nothing else.
Oh! No it isn’t. Terry has a very long record of anti-English bias claims made here on Wings. Now I do not mean anti-Westminster I mean anti-English People.
@Socrates Mac Sporran
Truly, events will inevitably turn raw ie nasty. The existential, identity politics sweeping Europe is not for those with delicate stomachs. Faragist Toryism is part of that as will the next Conservative chief.
The SNP generally does not do ‘dirty’. That may have to change.
To paraphrase Ibsen’s Master Builder, when you go to fight for truth, justice and independence best not to wear your best trousers.
Many old SNP hands will not like that one bit…..
Great the SNP success and Scotland’s choice of Remain being once again reinforced.
But it reminds me of the song words of….” how long has this been going on”
And what song words should we sin* next when our democratically expressed vote is once again treated to me nothing more than dog shit on the pavement?
…..”.and the 16 & 17yr olds didn’t get the chance to vote. Moving forward positively.
SNP 37.5%. Beat Brexit non Party 33%
Tennis is back.
Stupid Typo.. from Ibsen’s Enemy of the People….not the Masterbuilder…..
Although not an `earth-shattering` result for SNP,there is a % of Independence/SNP supporters that want out of EU,
according to a report, (2016) in the Brutish Nationalist Unionist Herald, as many as 30% would be happy to leave EU,
i have actually spoken to someone that voted Yes in 2014 mainly because he hoped “Scotland would be thrown out EU!”,
Scottish politics is normally binary between Scottish Patriots and Brutish Nationalists,
but the Brexit party,seen by most as Brutish Nationalist only,will have a fair % of Scottish Patriots in there too.
Even as an SNP member, I am really sad to hear about the loss of David Martin who has been the best MEP for Scotland for many years, probably one of the best in the whole UK. He has been turfed out because of his party’s antics over Brexit as well as the fact that the majority of voters don’t know the list members, let alone their sequence, before voting. If folk knew that Martin was top of the Labour list, and one of The Scottish 6 proving we could revoke Aticle 50 unilaterally, they may have got enough votes to keep him in place.
Ruth Davidson may have fled the field but Jo Swinson has stepped into her place in the eyes of the BBC. First voice I heard this morning being interviewed on R4. Perhaps she stayed up all night. Swinson Redentor.
Perhaps the LibDems could rummage around in their box of cast off 100 year old policies and rediscover Home Rule.
Looks like Labour in Scotland is going for the ‘the Scots were too stupid to understand our complex message’ excuse. It seems a bit similar to how we couldn’t understand the genius of the Theresa May Brexit deal, if only we weren’t as stupid we could understand the intellectual vastness of these London parties. You have to laugh.
So with regards Elgin, in answer to Fiona Bruce’s question…’they were all out voting SNP’ (34% to Brexit’s 22%). Remain parties took 54% in that Council area.
So who was out of kilter with their audience?….again.
John Curtice just said *we’ve got to DIScount the votes of the SNP because a third of their voters actually do want Brexit but still voted for them out of loyalty*
That’s not what they said before when the SNP vote share went down when Brexiters didn’t vote SNP
Morning Nana, I have a sad tail to tell about your links, indeed anyone’s links.
I was charging my laptop the other evening and had placed it carefully on the floor . Stepped back and stood on it resulting in a big , black blob on the essential corner which means I cannot see instructions to go back. I have dug out my wee android but it is a bit of a pain in the tonsils too.
I will have to dig out my old laptop which has its own little idiosyncrasies and see how that goes. meanwhile I’m struggling!
@Hamish100 at 9:14 am
Indeed, moving forward as positively as we can within a system that denied the vote to some EU Nationals.
Lynne @ 3.22 am and Artyhetty @ 2.55 am
“”Yes, he [Guy Verhofstadt]does seem to have a bit of a blind spot where Scotland is concerned!””
……..
Do not think so going by his past comments.
For example:
In 2018
https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/eu-negotiator-simple-fact-independent-scotland-could-join-eu-1-4757519
And in 2017
https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-news/europe-can-t-afford-to-lose-scotland-says-guy-verhofstadt-1-4365925
@Scot Finlayson
For some the EU is just too ‘foreign’, an incomprehensible jumble of identities. I suspect they are mostly at the mature residually ’British’ end of the electorate. I am by origin and inclination ‘cosmopolitan’. I would like to think the SNP is an internationalist and cosmopolitan party and that Scotland is strong and secure in its sense of integrity and identity to cope with anything encountered on the EU or world stages.
The Union provincialized Scotland, correcting its effects will take a little time.
Repositioning ourselves as an EU member European country, whether liked or not, is part of the correction process. Moving from the UK backwaters to fast the flowing and unpredictable global river ought to be invigorating, restorative and culturally ‘therapeutic’.
Not that you would know from the Media this morning but The Brexit Party got hammered in Scotland with a worse result for them than both John Major and Margaret Thatcher and achieved much less than half of the votes the SNP did!
In Scotland once again Pro EU votes 2/3 in favour vs 1/3 leave.
Funny how the map at the beginning of this post is absent from TV coverage of the EU Election Results this morning across the UK.
Scotland and England continue to pull in sociopolitical polar opposite directions.
Since I have been saying since the 24th, June, 2016 that the tories ultimate aim in to leave with a “no deal Brexit”, here is a prediction as to what will now happen.
They will elect a brexiteer as leader, and Prime Minister, who will try, unsuccessfully, to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement. He/she will then, with the unstinting support of the M.S.M, blame everyone and anyone in sight for this rejection, and call a General Election.
They will then stand on a position of an extreme “no deal”, wipe out almost completely the Brexit Party, and gain a majority at Westminster, where they can do their own thing without any hindering from the S.N.P, or anyone else.
By then I hope we will be well down the road to a second Scottish Independence Referendum, because if not, our fate will be sealed.
Thought
The key to breaking the unionist vote in scotland is it to point to ulster
Westminster will break the union by giving up on ulster, they sort of have by promising full regulatory alignment with dublin but it will go further
@Dorothy Devine at 9:39 am
Re. damaged screen, try right click on the links and select open in new tab?
A sign of things to come is hearing people who voted no in first independence referendum starting to voice the possibility of voting SNP and yes! This is incredible.
These folks are angry that we are being taken out of EU and hearing Tories more and more talking openly of no deal.
They are starting to engage and we need to make sure we take them with us…
@Dorothy Devine
A salient lesson there regarding your laptop, always stand it on its end when charging. The only risk then is tripping over it and breaking your leg, but the laptop is likely to remain intact, and you will sill have use of it while in plaster.
Surprised at the Tories result in Scotland. I expected them to be galvanised by the return of Ruth Davidson, obviously the most talented politician in Britain.
Ruth is a blot on the landscape….literally!
Willie Rennie
This result proves Scotland rejects Independence
???????????
I’m pleased the SNP won three EU seats, though its pity it wasn’t four, we might have got ridden of the Tory.
However after the results in the rest of the UK, I don’t See the three UK parties having any real escape route from this Brexit disaster they created.
Labour and Corbyn made a rod for their own back when they supported abiding by the result and voted for implementing of article 50.
I doubt whether even a general election where Corbyn manages to get into No 10 with the support of the SNP and the libdems will prevent Brexit from happening.
If that were to happen it would only make the Brexiteers
in England even angrier than they are now.
Scot Finlayson says:
27 May, 2019 at 9:20 am
…..,will have a fair % of Scottish Patriots in there too.
You’re undoubtedly correct Scot, but I would suggest they are pretty short sighted Scottish Patriots if they would forfeit the Constitutional impetus given to Scotland’s case for Independence by undermining the assault upon Scotland’s Constitutional integrity and sovereignty which Brexit represents.
I simply do not follow the logic in squandering the colonial injustice of a Brexit forced upon us, to roll over and accept that unconstitutional subjugation, and only afterwards, attempt to pick up the cudgels to argue the toss for Scotland being Independent. For a start, we’d have lost the support of 27 coordinated allies with wealth, power, and common purpose to support Scotland and lead the way with our accelerated international recognition.
I have my own faith in Europe, and yes, I believe without the pernicious poisoning of Scotland’s news and political discourse, a great many more people would find themselves persuaded to have more faith in Europe, and come to recognise that EU Membership is a great boon to our Nation. Look beyond the jaded and joyless perceptions of Europe which predominate throughout BBCland, and you find that no other Member State except the UK has any desire to leave. Even the hard right in France don’t want the French to leave. Ask yourself the obvious question… why is the UK so far out of step with the other 27 Nations?
I say we seize the day and take our Independence, use the threatened loss of our EU Citizenship as the catalyst to agitate support for Indy in Europe, and once we have adequate sovereign autonomy to purge our media of BritNat prejudices and BBC indoctrination, we can then assess EU Membership on its objective benefits rather than the current understanding by proxy filtered through UK cynicism and stereotypes. IF we then decide Europe isn’t right for Scotland, we can at least argue the case from an informed position, where our views have not been corrupted by the UK Establishment’s deluded exceptionalism and antithesis towards Europe.
Whether you love it or hate it, the removing of Scotland from Europe against the will of the Sovereign people of Scotland is THE formula which guarantees our freedom and emancipation from the Union. What purpose is served in squandering such a fortuitous “perfect storm” for this broken and dysfunctional Union?
And FFS don’t mention EFTA or you’ll set them off again. Do you honestly believe the Irish Backstop would have the potency it does if it was left to Norway and Iceland to reign in the British Exceptionalism?
Effijy says:
27 May, 2019 at 8:38 am
Please ease off Wee Ruth Davidson as you must consider
That her non appearance could be due to breast feeding?””
………..
Given that Ms Davidson was seen quaffing whisky in a distillery a couple of weeks ago I don’t think she can use ‘breast feeding’ as an excuse to cover her absence today.
She will probably go with: ‘dog ate my homework’.
No interviewer would challenge that would they?
It was a low turnout say the losers who then claim that means the winners didn’t win, and forget the truth which is if you didn’t vote it’s quite likely you didn’t care,
you can’t count apathy
Have Ruth, Mundane, Leotard and Commie Corbyn resigned yet?
Thanks to Ruth Davidson, of the Ruth Davidson Baker’s Dozen Conservative, Unionist, Loyal Sons of William Party, Dark Money, the Supermom demanded on her Ruth Davidson’s Ruth Davidson Party that Nicola Sturgeon should be asked of the followers of the Ruth Davidson’s Ruth Davidson Party to take Indyref2 off the menu.
The followers of the Ruth Davidson’s Ruth Davidson Party duly obliged, all 28 of them.
Where is the cheeky wee chubby-faced grin today.
Why isn’t she on the front cover of the Herald Britland, the Britsman, and the Daily Clegg, astride an unsuspecting ungulate waving cheerily in triumph like Douglas Fairbank Snr.?
Perhaps it is because she has been shown to be yet again, a complete and utter political failure.
There may be civil war in England in the summer, and that is not hyperbole.
Farage is about to have his 1933 Germany moment.
Seig Heil, Nigel.
God help England.
Its all over now
OR IS IT
Those people denied a vote will take their case to court + all the results are in seats allocated BUT in Scotland Shetland Isle will declare their result by 11 am today, so by all intensive purpose those People’s have been disenfranchised ???.
The option of staying Brit becomes less and less palatable by the minute. Time the SNP and Greens were not the only pro-independence parties on the block. Labour, Conservatives and the rather bizarre Liberals are looking increasingly alien.
Constitutional crisis…..to the left, right and middle…enjoy the ride.
Remembering the late Bjørge Lillelien and how he may have described the EU election results for Labour and Conservatives from a Scottish perspective.
(I think I’ve got that Labour chiel’s name right)
Sherbert Legofield, Ruth “nae mair Indy referendums” Davidson, can you hear me?
Sherbert Legofield, Ruth “nae mair Indy referendums” Davidson, your parties took a hell of a beating… your parties took a hell of a beating*…
* Electorally, obviously.
BBC London going on about “British” politics being more-polarised than ever; but, completely ignoring this polarisation in Scotland.
They think they own us and can ignore us – time to leave Nicola.
Lest we relax !
https://twitter.com/chrismorrisbits/status/1132918660593537029
A keeper for indyref2.
O/T:
Just watched Gordon Ross IndyCar and it ties in with things I had noted as I read various reports of the EU Election result reports.
I was having a wee chuckle to myself as I read the, (often below the line), views and comments. Some that cropped up several times were those worn out old ones that are variations on the theme that as only 30 odd % had turned out to vote then it was not a great victory for the SNP.
This because as a greater percentage had not voted then the SNP had really lost. Of course this is total bullshit and probably deliberately so.
It invariably makes the assumption the non voters would all be of a different view from the winning side and so the losers were the real winners. As logical thought this is mince.
The other recurrent theme was that, as Scots had voted to remain in 2014, the voters should now, in 2019, accept the cast in sold brass, result and not keep wanting to keep running referendums until they get the result the SNP wanted.
This again is bovine rectally expelled waste matter as such logic would mean that nothing ever changes in politics and so we would all be voting for the Whigs today.
It becomes ever more certain that either these people making such claims are totally doo-lally or they imagine we are. Yet after every vote they trot the same idiocy out yet again.
I suspect many such claims on the both mainstream and social media are really such bots triggered to make such claims by the key words, “SNP Win”.
Dorothy Devine, you can use the mouse pointer to make the window smaller – just click on an edge and drag it across or up or down. Once you’ve made it so that the back button’s uncovered, you can move the buttons around so that they’re out of the way of the dark bit.
not sure about these results
the map of mainland scotland all yellow makes a good visual aid (badges, mugs biscuits etc)
labour crashed and burned and going forward, even if corbyn now backs a PV, the bounce has definately gone out of their bungie. even cat boyd will struggle to justify voting for them. They are now the go to party for no one.
the lib dems, from a standing start of being no where, are now a minor party who, betting unionists, might be willing to back. in most constituencies in scotland, this would be disasterous for labour and tories but great for the snp.
tories, meh, their No means No slogan has taken a battering, as has ruthies reputation as the saviour of the union. if even a small % of their voters in the south or the ne switch to libdem, they will get wiped out in the coming ge.
BXP, their success is more important as a pressure point on the tory leader contest and a push to swing the tories to the right and a no deal PM. I have consistently said this will happen but where im not so sure now is, when this happens, the brexit party may not dissolve and join the tories. farage will look at these results and might now think he could be the next PM at a ge. risky assumption on such a low turnout but one he might be tempted to make for his own self aggrandisment. Even if farage does join bojo, it isnt certain the 9% tory vote would back a no deal tory party.
the snp, the yellow map apart, in 2017, the dramatic fall in support to just 38% was a disaster, today, 38% is a huge victory? I know in this PR many more yessers voted green, believing this a wise move (in a ge, a lack of green candidates will ensure the 8% will fall back to the usual 2-3%.) but even at 43% of the vote, we are well short of having rock solid certainty of winning indyref2 and certainly no mandate to call UDI
after saying this, although eu elections usually have a low turn out, the snp won with their biggest win ever and while it is risky to extrapolate what this might mean for a ge, he or indyref2, i am relatively happy this morning.
btw, james kelly (scot goes pop) is a cheer leader for the snp, a good one at that, but he isnt a impartial psephologist. While curtice isnt impartial either, he bases his opinions more on the actual figures than wishful thinking.
anyone got an actual link to the scotland results showing the actual voter numbers?
@schrodingers cat
Good post.
As I see it
1) Scotland doesn’t want Brexit.
2) Scotland does clearly want SNP government.
3) Scotland doesn’t (yet) have 50% support for independence.
With a hard-brexit PM about to lead Tory party towards no-deal the ducks are lining up nicely. Scotland has a stark choice to make. EU / SNP or independence or no-deal.
I for one am quite chuffed that SNP got an extra seat.
How much clearer does Scotland need to be that we don’t want Brexit and that indy is the way…
Well titled. Nothing changes.
Scotland, as a whole voted to remain close to Europe, as it has already.
Unionist regions voted to remain close to Europe as they had previously.
These things underline what we already knew, as far as the EU is concerned Scotland does see things differently to England.
But so what? That argument is swatted away with “uk vote, all in it together, blah blah blah” and is ignored.
No power to change in it. Nothing to force Westminster to properly regard what we say at all. And they will need to be FORCED, I doubt they will do anything altruistic. Self serving yes.
Will these results and voting patterns transfer to an Independence vote? Or even a general Election?
I couldn’t say, and I don’t think any body else can for sure either. I would guess that the SNP would do well in a GE but would those normally voting Labour, Tory or Lib Dem vote for Independence, does this result tell us anything we can take as a positive sign for self determination?
Again I come back to the same old brick wall that I am fed
up looking at.
What do we do about the section 30 problem?
Yes I know we don’t NEED one but things will go a lot smoother with one.
While only speaking of Scotland, gotta disagree that Labour voted counted as a #Brexit vote.
Labour voters are probably some of the most confused voters at the best of times and this election was no exception. From door-knocking it was clear that a lot thought that Labour were for Remain – even when their party’s policy and leader’s views were explained they would still be adamant that Labour were for Remain. A small number ever thought No Deal meant we stay in the EU with nothing changed.
Dan and misteralz , thanks for the advice .
jfngw thanks for the laugh and the advice!
@Mogabee says:
“A sign of things to come is hearing people who voted no in first independence referendum starting to voice the possibility of voting SNP and yes! This is incredible.”
I’m assuming you don’t do Twitter Mogabee, because almost every day you see people saying that they voted No in 2014 but will now vote Yes because of the way Westminster has handled Brexit.
The more ‘hard-line’ Westminster is, the more people will switch from No to Yes.
Western Isles result just declared.
SNP has 44% of vote.
I’ve just emailed David Martin to thank him for his service, give him my thoughts on the direction we’re being dragged on and invited him to join us in fighting for the only realistic chance we now have of ever having a left wing agenda and saving our NHS from privatisation. I’ve never voted Labour but he seemed like one of the better ones. I hope he joins the battle to save Scotland.
Dorothy Devine says:
27 May, 2019 at 9:39 am
Morning Nana, I have a sad tail to tell about your links, indeed anyone’s links.
“I was charging my laptop the other evening and had placed it carefully on the floor . Stepped back and stood on it resulting in a big , black blob on the essential corner which means I cannot see instructions to go back. I have dug out my wee android but it is a bit of a pain in the tonsils too.
I will have to dig out my old laptop which has its own little idiosyncrasies and see how that goes. meanwhile I’m struggling!”
I’m so glad ‘m not the only one capable of destroying laptop screens – 3 in the past two years plus a TV screen I was using as a substitute – and I didn’t throw any of them in temper.
Col says:
27 May, 2019 at 11:41 am
I’ve just emailed David Martin to thank him for his service, give him my thoughts on the direction we’re being dragged on and invited him to join us in fighting for the only realistic chance we now have of ever having a left wing agenda and saving our NHS from privatisation. I’ve never voted Labour but he seemed like one of the better ones. I hope he joins the battle to save Scotland.
Him and Malcolm Chisholm should really be considering their positions.
“How did ‘clicky heels’ get on”? asks my older Daily Mail reading acquaintance at the next table in the cafe this morning.
“Just fine…3 seats up from two last time” says me
Showed her my tablet with the ‘yellow map of Scotland’
“Wait till the 16yrs & 17yrs old get a vote should do even better” I suggest.
She scowls at the map and says “What do school kids know about politics”?
Conversation peters out abruptly as I spread some butter on my delicious cherry scone. Karen, my partner, smiles from behind The National X-word page. 🙂
‘clicky heels’ = Sturgeon. What a day so far.
The Herald online has an Election results live page. Lots of info and quotes/video of SNP MPs etc including short interview with FM who is in Ireland today.
Wont archive
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17665966.european-elections-2019-live-results-in-scotland/
@Mogabee 9.52
Yes, you really have to have a significant proportion of the previous No voters on board with their votes for the next referendum/or by whatever means, hence the appeal by the SNP to reason rather than tribal loyalties.
I seem to recall the numbers that you don’t ‘go into battle’ with less than 2:1 in your favour. Let’s say you could also gain a further 10-20% with continuous information, campaigning and political events in your favour and you will have the votes.
I just find the (understandable) endless negative distraction of discussion of MI6, infiltration, the MSM, the BBC, the bureaucracy of the SNP (all bureaucracies are self-perpetuating) ALL fairly wide of the mark.
I’ll just keep on persuading those who are there to be persuaded.
Re: Ruth Davidson:
She has kinda painted herself into a corner with her ‘Ruth Davidson Conservative and Ruth Party’ thing.
As her popularity wanes, the Tories will have to begin to quietly remove her cheeky chappy grin and ‘Ruth for the Ruth Party’ stuff, but they have overplayed this hand so much over the past few years, that it will become immediately noticeable if they do try this.
This could easily cause a start a downward spiral as social media, as well as a few nippy wee comments at FMQ’s or maybe wonders will never cease and the MSM might begin to ask her some awkward questions!
I cant help thinking that as soon as she feels the tide turning against her, she will be off promptly, for a seat somewhere in England.
On another note: Wonder what the vote percentage would be, had the EU citizens hadn’t been denied their vote?
Scotland GE 2017
SNP 36.8%
Con 29.0%
Lab 26.9%
LibDem 6.7%
Scotland (without WI) EU
SNP 37.9%
Brexit 14.7%
LibDem 13.7%
Con 11.6%
Lab 9.3%
Green 8.3%
Change 1.9%
The Tories have been split over Europe for decades. Now the rift has opened wide.
Labour are probably now toast.
Oh they are going to do it in England Rev they have got a wee taste of people power and they like it.
Beware anyone getting in their way including Nigel they are intent on destroying the tories and labour (not before time).
The remain lot in England could not organize the proverbial in a brewery,what a bunch of sad sacks remind me of Scottish unionists for some reason thick as mince.
We tried to organize them but it was like trying to gather up toddlers at a cress when they have all been sugared out their nuts but i guess the clever ones did go green been telling those clowns that the greens were ripe for a people take over and that the lib dems were tories in disguise just like Labour,wooosh!
The Brexit guys are a wide range not all of them are NF,BNP trash they are a minority that have jumped on the bandwagon like Nigel,in general they are just really really angry English people lashing out.
They are watching us and learning ha we should be flattered.
So guys if you are reading this i am all for your movement in England however we both know Brexit can never happen while the UK exists the second you call Brexit we Scots will take that as independence for England.
So lets cut to the chase there is only one option for us both we must end the treaty of union and UK.
And no that does not mean the end of Britain just means us all doing our own thing,you get what you want out the EU and we get what we want out the UK and we both get a chance to sort out the mess these criminals have made of both our countries.
@Dorothy Devine
Hi, grap a VGA (video) cable from a store or that one friend who has a drawer full of stuff 🙂 and plug your laptop into your telly (if ye have one) . Depending on the laptop and telly, you might manage an HDMI cable.
Your laptop screen settings should give you an option for ‘dual monitor’ and your telly should have a ‘channel’ select option (HDMI 1,2 VGA, etc…)
Good luck.
If you ever do manage, you’ll probably use that setup a lot.
No more bad backs and squinty eyes peering over a laptop. For extra fun – have a techy hook you up with a wee portable bluetooth keyboard and mouse and never mind having the laptop on yer lap either.
Chill out on the recliner doing evil cybernattery in comfort on a big screen.
I read about RD using the classic ‘redoubling’ of effort cliche.
What a load of pap pap pap as it really means to work 4 times harder in my book!
The last person who was ever so fond of that particular phrase was John Reid who redoubled himself off to the stratosphere of the used car lot of the lords no doubt.
Just wish folk would stop talking pure shite.
The EU election results have demonstrated a few interesting things about the Scottish electorate. The main observation is that the Brext debacle has split the British nationalist vote right down the middle, between hard Leavers (“proud Brits, no surrender”) who voted for the Brexit Party, and remainers (“proud Brits, but….”) who voted LibDem. This is now a yawning gap we can and should exploit.
There have now been quite a few elections that the SNP have won, and each time the SBNs (Scottish British Nationalists) have tried a different way to try and thwart the ascendancy and momentum of the independence movement. With limited or no succes, because it is a crowded field. However, we can expect this to continue for some time up to independence, and consequently every time one or two of the main unionist parties will take a very big hit. Last night it was “Scottish” Labour’s turn.
Sorry, British Nationalists – this turmoil is going to continue, with huge fluctuations in popularity and huge instability in your base, resulting in a shortage of talent and experienced politicians as continuity fails, gradually damping down as the residual British Nationalist constituency continues to fade away. The writing is on the wall. My heart bleeds. 🙂
Sky ignoring Scottish results. Trying to say they have not been declared yet.
Aye Terry,
A few English folk in the SNP back home. Opinion is shifting a bit there amongst the liberal minded (new Scots I like to think of all people not born here but living here) from England. I won’t read too much into the pro UK parties vote last night and what it means for an Indy vote. It was an EU vote, brexit dominated and I reckon we will still take some of these votes when and if brexit hits. 40% turnout too, it was 84% in the referendum.
Rev, why do you think a google search for the Wings site brings up a picture of you as an 18 year old with a hair-do from that era.
You are a successful mature man in his 50’s with plenty of pictures available on line, showing you as your today, or even a picture of you as an adult would be a concession.
Looks like someone pays Google to use a less flattering picture that makes you look like an inexperienced boy without credibility.
@gala
Still waiting for complete figures for last night, but these are the important figures
2014 EUE 33.5% turnout
SNP 389,503
LAB 348,219
LIB 179,061
TORY 231,330
SG 108,305
BXP 170,807*
*BXP ARE A COMBO OF
UKIP 140,534
BNP 13,639
BF 10,216
NOEU 6,418
2015 GE 71.1% turnout
SNP 1,454,436
LAB 707,147
LIB 219,675
TORY 434,097
SG 39,205
UKIP 47,078
2016 HE (CONS) 55.6% turnout
SNP 1,059,897
LAB 514,261
LIB 178,238
TORY 501,844
SG 13,172
UKIP 46,426 (LIST VOTE ONLY)
2017 GE 66.4% turnout
SNP 977,569
LAB 717,007
LIB 179,061
TORY 757,949
SG 5,886
UKIP 5,302
A very gracious interview given by David Martin on BBC Shotbread at lunchtime. Came over as a decent human being. If more Labour politicians were like him, perhaps they would not be in such a mess.
@Scott Finlayson 09:20
There is among some SNP voters an affection for the British supra identity. It is a kind of security blanket, it is familiar and non threatening and can provide comforting myth, the desire by some to keep the £GB is probably a manifestation of that. Europe, by contrast, is perceived as somewhat ‘other’. Pre Union Scotland had no such qualms.
Scotland has been in a provincial backwater for most of the UK centuries. If you wanted something different you had to leave, which millions did. Breaking the ingrained habits and perceptions will be difficult and joining the fast flowing European/global mainstream traumatic for some. However, engaging with Europe and the world offers the potential to renew, restore and re-energise and blow way the detritus of those wasted centuries.
This is an existential/philosophical matter, an area conventional British politics finds problematic and ignores; not so the case in mainland Europe where there is a place for engagement with the intellectual in political discourse
From my ‘cosmopolitan’ viewpoint Scotland’s future is bright. We need to cut the chains and join the flow!
Terry Callachan@7.54am
“Even the information presented as facts in UK politics are just opinions…..”
Why do you then continue to spout your 10% of the population in Scotland is English comment as fact. Doing the the same as the UK Terry old boy. You have been challenged plenty of times on Wings to justify where you get this figure from. No reply. It’s your opinion is the best you can come up with.
Your anti English comments put you in the same camp as Farage. ” Othering the English “. That of course is my opinion and not a fact.
Read a brief interview with David Martin this morning -Sad he had to become a victim of the poor ScottishLabour and UK labour inaction.
He has said that he could actually see himself voting for Scottish independence as it is vital that Scotland stays in Europe.
Good results for Scotland – Farage is a one trick pony, talking about a GE this morning he admitted that he would have a tough task ahead to come ip with a manifesto if there is to be a GE but he is working on it. Wonder how many people will fall for him once his obnoxious policies are revealed. Happy to have him splitting the Tory vote but I’m still mildly concerned that the combined total of Unionist votes is more than 50%.
She of the lib Dems has just as awful a voice to listen to as (t)Ruthless and is she not expected to be the next Leader of the party? Maybe they will have more people to choose from if there has been this sudden surge to the Lib Dems and they won’t be forced to have a scottish person and a woman to boot.
Willie Rennie will be a real pain in the neck now.
Nicola, true to form, at work today in Ireland building trade relationships and creating links with our nearest neighbours – doing the day job.
Independence is coming for Scotland – believe it.
I’ve been searching the net for the Western Isles EU Election
results. I can’t find any info other than likely announcement at 11.30am today?
They only have around 20,000 on the voters roll and likely half didn’t bother to vote so just how long would it take a team of counters to count to 10,000?
10 seconds to count 1 paper gives one Counter 1,260 from 9am to 12.30pm. Don’t you think at least 10 people would be involved?
Is just keep SNP still to be announce games by the Unionists?
Socrates MacSporran says:
27 May, 2019 at 10:36 am
BBC London going on about “British” politics being more-polarised than ever; but, completely ignoring this polarisation in Scotland.
I don’t believe British politicians is in a mess through polarisation. UKIP in 2016 was an invasive, populist distortion of UK politics; an “alien” imposition something like a cuckoo’s egg being deposited in the political nest, and everybody “mainstream” flapping their wings trying to feed it.
It worked in 2016. UKIP got the job done, Brexit by majority, then disintegrated. Farage, Boris, Cameron, Gove, couldn’t quit fast enough. And no wonder. But then the Establishment tried to interpret Brexit as a more flexible ultimatum, possibly less Brexity than previously intended, and possibly even a bit No-Brexity.
“Not having that” seethes the Deep State Disaster Capitalists who desperately want rid of European Regulations on their conduct, and suddenly the one trick pony UKIP is reinvented as the one trick pony Brexit Party, to make sure their Brexit project isn’t derailed by rational people being frightened of commercial catastrophe.
The Brexit Party is another fly-by-night Cuckoo’s egg in the nest, just like UKIP. It’s only there for what it can get, and doesn’t give a shite about the sacrifices and devastation left in its wake. No mandate. No manifesto. No objective save one. Get out of Europe.
This is not polarisation. This is political surrogacy, an unnatural product where the narrative and political imperatives are not organic to the landscape but being orchestrated and manipulated to serve interests other than those of the electorate. UK politics and democratic process has been hijacked by interests hostile to European Union success, and indifferent to “expendable” UK collateral damage, and they have used the media to do it.
By dressing these issues up as “polarisation” of viewpoint, the media who played an integral part in this hijack are simply trying to cover their tracks of their involvement,
Curtice on BBC right now, trying for all he is worth to sook-up to the Establishment what gave him his K.
Sooking up to the Tories – must try to make Colonel Yadaftie look good.
Dorothy Devine says: 27 May, 2019 at 9:39 am:
” … I will have to dig out my old laptop which has its own little idiosyncrasies and see how that goes. meanwhile I’m struggling!”
Hi Dorothy: If I’m reading you correctly I take it you mean the laptop screen is damaged. If that is so then a solution may be to connect the damaged screen laptop to a HDMI ready TV or monitor with an HDMI cable and select that input on your TV and use the TV as your laptop monitor. It’s a great deal cheaper than a new laptop.
Hope that helps. Matter of fact I’m currently using my laptop with a plug-in keyboard as the built in keyboard has developed a couple of non-responsive keys. Most laptops have input and output sockets these days and an HDMI cable is a lot cheaper than a new laptop.
Hi Effijy.
Results…
http://ballotbox.scot/
Best tweet from James Cook:
The story across Scotland…
SNP — triumphant
Brexit Party — arrived
Conservatives — disastrous
Labour — catastrophic
Lib Dems — pretty decent
Greens — close but no cigar
https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook/status/1132788621067661312
Farage = Trump. Is trying to follow his lead.
Brexit Party is a budget Trump republican party.
Highlight a fear, promise a cure all an answer to all problems and who wouldn’t vote for that once they buy into it?
MEGA is MAGA campaign. Make England Great Again.
I do mean Make England Great Again.
MAGA played on fears of Americas dominant position being under threat. MEGA plays on England regaining relevance in the world with the regaining of empire being alluded to if not promised by the lkes of Johnson, Mogg and their like.
An oversimplification no doubt and hardly original but the thought was intriguing.
@
Luigi says:
This is now a yawning gap we can and should exploit.
————–
we dont need to exploit it, the unionist split is of their own making. it simply means that the “anyone but the SNP” tactical voting is undermined and will play into our hands without us lifting a finger.
snp+sg vote last night was 46%, which i think is about right, so no real change for us but the radical swings between the unionist parties are nothing more than rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic.
the real question is how many tory,lab,lib mps, msps meps, party members and voters are staring at their tvs this morning in horror at the direction the uk is about to take? or more importantly, how many are willing to go with it?
the unionists in scotland now know what brexit will actually mean, and it will leave a bitter taste in many of their mouths.
and that is before it has even happened.
I thought Mike Russell and Nicola’s commiserations with the labour mep who lost his seat were well timed and cut exactly the right tone, effectively an olive branch to the many unionists who will now finally take the plunge from no to yes.
this is the real story from last night, even for england, although the unionist msm is avoiding the elephant in the room
Terry Callachan@8.14am
“……. a whole third of the people living in Wales now are English people”.
Full throttle anti English bigotry from Callachan. Funny how your figures are always nice rounded up figs eh Terry old boy. A third English in Wales. A nice neat 10% English in Scotland.
If I want to read lies and misrepresented figures to bolster a racist anti immigration argument I would read any one of the MSM or in particular the Daily Express. I don’t want to read it on Wings. So how does your bigoted comments help independence Terry old boy.
Any minute your pal Paterson will turn up to churn out the same crap.
Have yet to see the ‘next FM’ on screen.
@Dan says:27 May, 2019 at 9:40 am:
” … Indeed, moving forward as positively as we can within a system that denied the vote to some EU Nationals.”
Well, Dan, I believe we may not have heard the last6 of that little, “mistake”, just yet.
Westminster may attempt to treat EU member states as badly as it treats Scotland but let’s see them try the same with not only EU member states but the EU and EC as well.
I read there were EU nationals complaining via their home countries and via the EU and threatening legal action against the UK Government.
The scale of this error points very much to a UK wide collaboration by local authorities to cheat the EU elections.
Thanks Brian Doonthetoon
Isn’t it strange that none of the main UK Media outlets have the Western Isles result on-line?
Nothing on BBC, ITV, Sky, Daily Hail, Mirror, Herald, Hootsmon, Daily Redcoat, etc.
Professor Sir Curtice downplaying the snp win on the BBC. I suppose that’s how he earns his wee bauble.
His lordshippy annnointing will no doubt be in the pipeline.
So if we add in the under 18’s , if we add in the Greens, EU citizens allowed to vote and the non Brexit Labour Party voters things are on the up for an independence referendum and winning!
Just not yet.
I don’t understand anybody counting Labour votes for any side of the argument, anybody voting Labour couldn’t possibly have had any idea of what they were voting for …or against
Oh but the Tories in Stirling have announced that they won
Ruth Davidson’s shouting from behind doors she’ll still be FM and she’ll be in Nicola Sturgeon’s shoes which is strange considering she usually says she wouldn’t want to be in Nicola Sturgeon’s shoes
I think it’s a foot fetish myself
The media is ignoring, either through ignorance or by intent, that Christian Allard MEP is a French citizen.
@Tony Hay says: 27 May, 2019 at 9:55 am:
… Ruth is a blot on the landscape….literally!”
Correct, Tony, and from my own observations she is literally becoming an ever increasingly bigger blot over the past year or so.
@Hamish 100@12.49pm
Just about to make same comment.!!
Curtice telling everyone that the SNP result was “good, but not great” !!!
Then says that LEAVE voters also voted SNP “despite the SNP being in favour of EU2 and Remain”.
Does he not understand what he just said there ?
LEAVE voters in Scotland voted SNP on Thursday !!!
That means the group within the SNP who want to leave the EU but want indy, are clearly MORE likely to vote Indy even if it means Remaining IN the EU.
Desperately trying to justify his anti indy knighthood.
Failing badly.
He tried to claim the same last night, in a desperate attempt to call the pro remain/pro leave total vote a DRAW by saying that the SNP do not draw their support in the EU ref from mostly pro remain voters, they got lots of LEAVE voters voting for them, so leave/remain vote was a draw !!
In fact, remain backing party votes won by several %.
The man is a shill.
Prof Poultice got a knighthood for saying SNP Bad last time
Now he’s going for the full Lordship
Could I point out the former Lab MEP David Martin would have a very nice EU Pension after 35 years of service.
Looks like he won’t get a penny if Nigel proves true to his word in reneging on the £39 Billion Divorce Bill with the EU.
Does anyone think the EU would pay out to Unionists if they tear up the EU agreements that they signed?
Mr Martin can look forward to having the 4th worst old age pension in all of the 28 EU Member States.
I feel confident that Brexit will soon make it the worst pensioner package in Europe, especially with the Tories working on a cut to Winter Fuel Allowance and TV Licences.
Well his Labour Party played a very big part in delivering this
situation.
So Get on with it as all the rest of us will have to.
Guardian has Plaid Cymru @ 22.4% (up 7.1% on last Euro Elections). I think Adam has it right – what with more AUOB indy rallies and support from our friends in Scotland we are definitely on the way up.
Congrats to you in Scotland, too! 🙂
If one thing is clearly evident, it is that the TWO countries who actually make up the UK, are on very different paths.
It would seem there is no way to reconcile this divergence as the political situation currently stands.
Separation can only be a matter of time, after many attempts from Westminster to bribe ,bully and cajole the Scottish people to fall into line and jump over the cliff hand in hand with England and her dominions.
No thanks.
In response to Scottish Steve…
I’m a lifelong SNP voter who voted for brexit. Half of the reason I voted for brexit was to increase the chance of Scottish independence. I’d never vote for any of the brexit parties, the SNP’s support for the EU caused me no hesitation when voting for them on Thursday, though I do have some profound differences with the SNP. Really I’d like to be voting green, but at this critical time it’s important we don’t split the separatist vote.
I’m probably not a typical voter.
@geeo
@Hamish
Curtice may be good with numbers or something, but his deductions often seem to miss the obvious. He seems to have an inbuilt BritNat filter.
I voted SNP as always because I want Indy. I want Indy above all else because I believe we can tackle all else in our own way and time is we get Indy.
The EU election may have been about Brexit, but that did not colour my choice in any way. I won’t be alone. There will be Leave, Remain, Hard, Soft, left, centre, and right who voted SNP in an attempt to further the cause we hold highest. Curtice just doesn’t seem to get that.
I accept others’ priorities might be different. Curtice fails see complexity somehow.
An update on my prediction of 3 years ago,
A GE. Libs will win but it will go down in history as losing Scotland and NI but sill in the EU.
Vote SNP/SNP or YES nothing else.
BBC News:
“In Scotland, labour were wiped out by an SNP surge”
“The Brexit Party topped every poll except Scotland and London”
……
Bloody hell !
Actually telling it as it is for once.
Hi folks! Really pleased with the result, SNP with 3 MEP’s. Can I ask the site details for Indy merchandise etc, as planning to be at the Galashiels AUOB march and want to get 1 or 2 Saltires.
“Patrick Roden says:
27 May, 2019 at 11:55 am
Re: Ruth Davidson:
She has kinda painted herself into a corner with her ‘Ruth Davidson Conservative and Ruth Party’ thing.”
By the time of the next Scottish Parliament elections, if we are still in the UK, the Tory government will be well on the way to privatising the NHS, selling out agriculture to the US agri industry, selling out Scotch whisky, selling out Scottish fishing, privatising Scottish Water – and wee Ruth will enthusiastically be doing her London masters bidding. Next First Minister? You’re having a giraffe!
All maps are political. Twas ever so.
Which is the reason why the BBC news this lunchtime did not show that yellow scotland – blue england/wales divide map, instead opting for a blank version.
Every picture tells a story and some (that they don’t want to tell)
News my arse.
The many faced man says he’s still listening, unfortunately for him he’s going deaf if he can’t hear his party flushing its way doon the lavvy
That yellow map, though. I wonder if someone at the BBC is going to get their marching orders for failing to predict this scenario in Scotland and the clear impression that the graphic would generate.
galamcennalath 1.08pm
Exactly correct.
Curtice has been gleefully telling anyone who will listen, that those “30% of leave voters in the SNP” are the reason indy in EU is “doomed, doomed ah tell ye”.
These results prove that assertion wrong, yet despite Curtice TELLING us it is wrong, he STILL tries to state that it is still the case !
His problem now, is we can directly quote him saying leave indy voters, put indy FIRST above all else.
And THAT really will cause massive concerns in Britnat world.
Last chance saloon for Labour in Scotland to back independence and save themselves. Do not hold your breath.
he BBC news this lunchtime did not show that yellow scotland – blue england/wales divide map.
I noticed that, Frank. There was no point having that clear map on the screen so it looks like it was a deliberate choice to hide the divide.
@Breeks says:27 May, 2019 at 10:08 am:
” … will have a fair % of Scottish Patriots in there too.
You’re undoubtedly correct Scot, but I would suggest they are pretty short sighted Scottish Patriots … “
I’ll tell you this, I’ve come across a fair few of such, Scots Patriots holding such views and attempted to debate logically with them.
In the main I have found they are almost all victims of Westminster Establishment brainwashing.
It is very, very hard to shake their beliefs that the EU is the same kind of organisation as Westminster. The usual phrase that shows the real truth is their insistence the EU, “is run by people unelected by EU citizens”.
This fixed mentality is so ingrained in them that even pointing out that the EU Citizens have just been out to vote to elect 751 MEPs fails to get through to these people.
It fails to get through to them the EU parliament is the decision making parliament and the EC are the bought and paid for EU civil Servants who have absolutely no decision making powers.
You can usually tell these poor brainwashed victims by their square eyes and newsprint black stained fingers. Their hearts are in the right place but their brains are washed very, very clean.
Waah! Shortbread tv lunchtime news EU elections.
Here is our political pundit …Ooher…Sorry!
Technical hitch, toodloo-the-noo report cant be broadcast but the SNP won and that nice Mr Martin from labour, longest serving MEP, lost his seat.
The weather. FGS! 🙁
Hi Douglas.
https://ayemail.scot/store/
Last few weeks the Lib Dems wouldn’t deny they would join with the Tories to oust the SNP and Greens.
Now they would have to sign up with the Tories and Brexit party. Love to see Rennie justifying that.!
Some labour I think might move to SNP or Green.
Great stuff!
Do these result make Willie Rennie more likely to be FM than Ruth Davidson (maybe she thinks FM stands for Fourth Minister).
@Dr Jim says:27 May, 2019 at 10:09 am:
… the winners didn’t win, and forget the truth which is if you didn’t vote it’s quite likely you didn’t care
It also assumes the non-voters would all have voted for the losers if they could have been bothered going to vote. A rather unlikely state of affairs to say the least.
@ Scottish Steve
We’ll never know how many Pro Brexit/Independenistas voted other than SNP. You won’t find that class of information anywhere in the Scottish media, and academia doesn’t seem interested – or is incapable of collating it, whatever.
Sir Professir Curtice is a fraud. He claims to give objective comment but he is just another Britnat.
The BBC is a Fraud.
The British political parties in Scotland masquerading as Scottish are frauds.
The British controlled newspapers masquerading as Scottish are a fraud.
The UK is a fraud.
@Douglas : 1.16
There are always saltires etc for sale at AUOB rallies. Just be careful because the rouges and spivs walk up and down the ranks with armfuls of them. These same spivs would happily sell tricolours to Celtic supporters or UJs to Rangers supporters.
Most of the Indy stalls will have a mixture of free stuff like stickers and badges and sale goods like T shirts, mugs and flags.
Hopefully YES Stones will have a cairn of painted stones to keep or hide with some being true works of art. Just help yourself but please wait until the allotted time after the rally so everyone gets a chance to see the completed cairn at the end. The Glasgow one was a superb collection.
Here’s a good handy breakdown of % in our cities/region
It’s UK- wide but does include the cities/regions in Scotland in alphabetical order.
Just scroll.
From Sky News [sorry about that]:
https://tinyurl.com/yxaf479s
Should have added just scroll and CLICK.
BBC news. Short comment along the lines that the SNP did well in Scotland. They then showed eight bars relating to different parts of the country. Four blue for BP, two orange for LibDems, one green for Greens and one yellow (Glasgow) for the SNP. The presenter clicked on a couple of the blue and orange bars to open and show the vote share. But hey surprise, surprise somehow forgot to click on the yellow. No UK map shown either highlighting the difference between Scotland and England.
Onto the “news where you are”. Around one minute (2 max) was spent on saying that the SNP did well. Nicola Sturgeon says it was a historic victory. The Brexit party came in second. Labour didn’t do well (or words to that effect). The SNP have three MEPs, Brexit one, Libdems one and the Tories one. There endeth Reporting Scotland’s coverage of the EU elections. No map shown and no interview with Nicola Sturgeon in comparison to Farage who was shown on the main news spouting his threatening guff on at least two occasions.
I was just thinking last night / this morning, whilst watching the EU result coverage on the BBC where they did show the UK (stark difference) map on a number of occasions, what some south of the border (and here too) made of it. They are being told repeatedly that the SNP is a disaster on all fronts, such as NHS, education and so on, and yet the Scots continue to support them in spite of MSM propaganda. You’d think the penny would be beginning to drop.
………..
@ hackalumpoff at 10:39am …..”Gove video.”
Thanks for that link hackalumpoff. It should be spread far and wide.
Ref Guy Verhofstadt, the leader of ALDE, he did indeed campaign on behalf of the LibDems, well, DUH, the more LibDems there are the bigger is ALDE. It’s increased from 68 seats to 109, and that greatly increases its influence. In fact since the EPP and S&D lost seats they no longer hold an overall majority, which gives ALDE a great kingmaking power (along with the Greens).
Verhofstadt as Legerwood points out, is very much on the side of Scotland remaining / re-entering the EU, and his party now has that balance of power. Hopefully they’d use it to smooth our re-entry / transition through the EP.
He’s an ally.
Alistair Campbell voted LibDem
@Maolbeatha says: 27 May, 2019 at 11:19 am:
… “What do we do about the section 30 problem?”
Even if you know we don’t need one you have not kept your ear close enough to the ground.
Have you not seen the news that Holyrood will be debating and voting on an indyref2 within the next few days?
Scotland forget Brexit, dissolve the Union. No more needs to be said.
“It seems a fair supposition that those who stuck with Labour at this election would have been largely from the sizeable minority within the party that’s pro-Brexit, and can therefore be legitimately counted towards the Leave total.”
Perhaps most of the Labour Brexiters went over to Brexit …
here’s something – brexit party wins, and it has only ONE policy
– and I think a guy won in the ukraine with NO policies
… ?
– this says a lot about the public mind
– any ideas more complex than a tweet do not register
giving someone a 100 reasons for something, e.g. independence – just confuses the shit out of them
GIVE THEM ONE GOOD REASON
– for our independence this should be : THE MONEY
SCOTLAND GETS RIPPED OFF BY ENGLAND
dont overcomplicate, dont sweat the details.
– last night, labour and the tories got fucked because they couldnt give a straight answer to the question
when are we leaving europe
Prof Poltice is a scruffy twat.The chube shouldn’t be on telly talks mince anyhow.
Same goes for that little runt Rory Stewart- PM give me peace!
These guys rake in 100K+ and can’t buy a decent shirt/tie and suit and look like their dug dragged them through a hedge backwards.
Bloody state of affairs!
@ Meg at 12:29pm …… “Brexit Party Manifesto.”
Amazing isn’t it that millions of numpties voted for this crowd having no idea what they actually stand for other than the fact that they demand that we No Deal Brexit out of the EU …….. and then what? Catastrophe for the economy, NHS privatised, social unrest, Holyrood abolished as per the last UKIP manifesto, etc etc. Just waiting to see what their manifesto will look like, especially with Farage saying that they, Westminster parties, normally contain a pack of lies. How will they spin everything to cover up that they’re as close as you could get to the Nazi Party in 1930’s Germany.
Surely the Europeans must see the yellow map of Scotland, we have to get more verbal support from European ministers who are sympathetic regarding Scotland aiming to stay in Europe, we have to go all out for independence before we loss the impetus.
Robert Peffers says at 12:46 pm
“Well, Dan, I believe we may not have heard the last of that little, “mistake”, just yet.
Westminster may attempt to treat EU member states as badly as it treats Scotland but let’s see them try the same with not only EU member states but the EU and EC as well.
I read there were EU nationals complaining via their home countries and via the EU and threatening legal action against the UK Government.
The scale of this error points very much to a UK wide collaboration by local authorities to cheat the EU elections.”
I understand we need a secure system to supposedly protect our democracy from fraud and other illegality, but those in control of that process are actually making it difficult for people to be part of the democratic process.
If I am late with tax return there are implications. If they are late with UC1 forms for EU Nationals, what happens? (Guess we’ll find out soon though).
Here’s an example of them making things difficult.
I always have a look at the postal vote applications forms I see activists and groups with.
They are often photocopies of an original that was printed off the net.
I regularly notice these forms have either not printed correctly and the shaded signature box is not there, or an alert person has had to manually pen the box in.
It is imperative the signature is contained within this box as these forms are digitally scanned for the future signature verification process of postal votes.
I learned this because in the past I’ve personally delivered incorrectly printed postal vote forms to my local electoral office only to have them not accepted because the signature was slightly out of position.
I’ve just searched for the online form again and notice it does now (after years of being hooky) look to have had a workover. I tried printing two copies out and page 2 doesn’t print Section 5 for the date of application properly as it stops short of printing the “Today’s date” and date boxes.
https://www.yourvotematters.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/222454/Postal-vote-application-form.pdf
Now this latest issue with their forms could just be my printer, but if someone else can print off page 2 to check that will confirm one way or another.
What happens if one of these new versions of the form is submitted with either that date info missing, or positioned incorrectly, remembering the form has to be digitally scanned?
Will this result in a delay in processing their application and thus timeout someone’s ability to vote?
Curtice is a Unionist through and through and can barely contain his hatred of the SNP. I met him once in person, just prior to IndyRef1, and could tell that he was at the very least a wee fly man and probably holding down an even more sinister post than we are aware of. I’m on my IPad so have had bother trying to dig out the links that highlighted his connections, and dirty dealings, with hedge funders, etc, etc, during the EURef. Will do later if I can get the time. He moved from beautiful St Austell in Cornwall to Scotland. Seems our great weather was the attraction.
Robert Peffers says:
Even if you know we don’t need one you have not kept your ear close enough to the ground.
Have you not seen the news that Holyrood will be debating and voting on an indyref2 within the next few days?
I knew that it was being debated but I couldn’t put all the pieces together.
If Scotland ceded its legal powers to Westminster in this Union of Equals, then Westminster “gave” some back but kept the legal power to grant or hold a referendum how can Scotland hold a legally recognised referendum?
That’s the part I cant make sense of.
Yes we the people are Sovereign, accepted by Westminster last year.
But what I am wondering is will the argument be made that “the people” are represented by the MP’s in Westminster? These MP’s act as the Sovereign will of the people and the way Westminster is set up we have no chance.
Legally Holyrood has to act at a restricted level to Westminster?
So if Holyrood votes that we will have a referendum and comes up with a date to hold the referendum, Westminster declares the referendum not legally binding, and probably the high court agrees with the Westminster government, what then?
Or have I (I hope)got this completely wrong?
Guy Verhofstadt – complete bastard.
His speech in the European Parliament 4 October 2017 responding to the paramilitary batoning of the Catalan voters:
“You knew very well in advance that a majority of Catalans would not participate and would stay at home, as the majority of them are against separation. It is not by accident that you did not even install a minimum threshold. So the result of this referendum was already known before it began. What do you call this? Manipulation? Deception?
Moreover, to declare independence based on the outcome of a defective referendum is totally irresponsible, not so much for Spain, not so much for Europe, but for Catalonia itself. It will cause a fatal fracture in your society, a fracture that may be impossible to heal. Who is going to profit from this gamble? The anti-Europeans who, as we know, want to destroy our union and who have already started to abuse your cause and violate our treaties today.”
FINAL numbers for last night now in
2014 EUE 33.5 turnout
SNP 389,503
LAB 348,219
LIB 179,061
TORY 231,330
SG 108,305
BXP 170,807*
*BXP ARE A COMBO OF
UKIP 140,534
BNP 13,639
BF 10,216
NOEU 6,418
2015 GE 71.1% turnout
SNP 1,454,436
LAB 707,147
LIB 219,675
TORY 434,097
SG 39,205
UKIP 47,078
2016 HE (CONS) 55.6% turnout
SNP 1,059,897
LAB 514,261
LIB 178,238
TORY 501,844
SG 13,172
UKIP 46,426 (LIST VOTE ONLY)
2017 GE 66.4% turnout
SNP 977,569
LAB 717,007
LIB 179,061
TORY 757,949
SG 5,886
UKIP 5,302
2019 EUE 38% turnout
SNP 594,533
LAB 146,724
LIB 238,289*
TORY 182,476
SG 129,603
BXP 233,424*
*BXP NUMBERS INCLUDE UKIP
UKIP 28,418
*LIB NUMBERS INCLUDE CUK
CUK 30,004
@Maolbeatha
The people of Scotland are Sovereign, it follows therefore that Westminster can’t be. It’s why they are expending so much time and effort in trying to make people believe they are not.
@Craig Murray
With due respect, my priority is 100% Scotland, and from that point of view, since Verhofstadt is very much pro-EU, he is an ally. Catalonia does not equal Scotland.
Indyref2
It is hard to find an exact figure, but at the very minimum 15% of Indy supporters are Scexiters.
There are definite advantages for Scottish Independence if the UK leaves the EU against the wishes of the Scottish people. But to construe that into a simple identity of Scottish and EU interests is very lazy thinking.
Remember Verhofstadt leads ALDE in the European parliament. 20% of ALDE MEPs are now Britnat Liberal Democrats.
Schrodingers Cat at 2.48pm – or anybody,
I may be having a senile moment, but I can’t track down the final result. Can someone give me a link?
@Craig Murray
UK LibDems have 16 out of 109, so near 15%, not 20%. But in any case, whatever their leanings towards the UK Union, they are very much pro-EU, so if it came to Independent Scotland being admitted / retained / transitioned into the EU, their vote For is almost certain. Don’t forget, the YES vote would already have happened.
As for making any (automatic) identity of Scottish and EU interests I’m not even doing that. The point is that IF iScotland wants to be in the EU, then it needs allies, like ALDE (and Greens and others in fact, probably S&D and maybe even EPP surprisingly). The decision as to whether it’s EU, EFTA or nothing at all for iScotland is totally different, that decision happens first, one way or the other.
Personal opinion.
Brexit is just a reiteration of UKIP. UKIP was literally abandoned by their higherarchy due to the numbers of low-life they were attracting coupled with the caliber of lack of acumin of potential candidates, many who were happy just to get their noses in the trough and line their own pockets.
Watch who throw their hats into the ring.
@ Craig Murray – Ballot Box Scotland sees to be the best:
http://ballotbox.scot
Indyref2
I agree with all you just said. My only point of difference is that I advise you not to trust Verhofstadt. I know that Scotland is not Catalonia, but Verhofstadt’s reacting to the brutality against the Catalans by blaming the Catalans shows you his true nature. And remember the Commission was even more hard line on this.
yesindyref2
If “Lance corporal F” ever comes to trial, perhaps his legal team could try…
The Verhofstadt Defense – “They should have stayed at home”.
Not entirely serious there but neither does Scotland = the EU.
@Craig Murray
I don’t know what specifically you’re referring to, but the EU itself is nothing if it doesn’t follow the Rule of Law, which in its case involves 28 legal systems, including the UK’s – and Spain’s. In Spain Independence is against the Constitution (territorial integrity). In the UK, it ain’t. It’s a question for the EU of conferral, subsidiarity and proportionality.
Says me and then ducks and runs for cover 🙂
Quite off topic, but just wanted to say that I have been up this weekend for the St Mirren v Dundee Utd play off match. Brought the (half) English son who is a StM fan. He ‘met’ some of the guys that do the drums and lead the chanting on Twitter and met up with them. He was in the Bankhouse before and after. Met the players (Cooke was his footie coach at college) and had a great time. Made to feel really welcome. He had a blast. Ok he was not a happy bunny this morning with a hangover on the plane back…
There was a guy from Bradford there to who met this lot at a friendly and now comes to lots of STM matches now.
Proud to be from such a friendly, welcoming town and country.
Thanks Buddies!
I want Scottish independence, I want to leave the EU. The latter trumps the former, sorry SNP you’re not trying for independence at all, I’m not voting for you so you can hand our independence on a plate to the EU.
Mei devon,
Glad you, your son and the Bradfordian enjoy the Buddies.
It is many decades since I saw them but, as a Buddy by birth, they (despite playing rugby) and all things to do with Paisley have a place in my heart.
I was reminded of what was said during IndyRef about Greenland when they got independence from Denmark. It took them, if memory serves me right, seven years to extricate themselves from the EU – and they didn’t have any complex issues to resolve.
If negotiations were moving smoothly, if slowly, then this wouldn’t even be an issue. But the more doubt that is placed upon honouring the result, the worse it will get. NB I can’t understand Scottish Labour taking a ‘stop Brexit’ approach – surely if you’re a democrat and a UNIONIST then you accept the result of a UK wide referendum with good grace?? They want a second referendum when it suits THEM!
If however the LibDems get their way or Labour changes policy, gains power and revokes Article 50 with the intent of preventing Brexit I think there would be actual riots on the streets in England. There have been riots in England for MUCH less than this. But, honestly, I don’t blame them they’ve been promised this by ALL SIDES and there’s been years of negotiation.
That’s not to say I want or support it. Under the Edinburgh Agreement there is a codicil for ‘material change’ and the example specifically given by the SNP leadership in the aftermath of IndyRef was precisely Scotland being dragged out of the EU against it’s will, add to that Holyrood having passed a motion to get another referendum on that basis – then that is EXACTLY what should happen ie Independence for Scotland still within the EU and Brexit for England & Wales, possibly with no deal because THAT is what the people want.
Northern Ireland should also have the chance to, at least, be administered within the EU. We already have Gibraltar which is OUTSIDE the EU, why not have another area INSIDE? The Tories have bowed down to terrorist sympathising DUP by not pressing them into resolving the Stormont situation (DUP are stupid enough to be happy with direct rule – flagrantly breaching the Good Friday Agreement)and have caved to them over and over in the face of their (DUP) intransigence (the ONE thing DUP do well) Tories should remember, the DUP no have a taste of being at the centre of power, THAT in itself is leverage. May couldn’t negotiate with the DUP, she was NEVER going to be up to getting a good deal from the entirety of the EU…
I’m all for Scottish Independence. Have Supported Scotland’s Right to Independence since 1984 .. but the PEOPLE of Scotland – including our dear Friends and our Fellow Patriots on Orkney, Shetland and the Hebrides, and all the Lads and Lasses of the Highlands and Lawlands, East to West and North to South – need to separate “politics” and “political party manifestos” and “political party leaders” from the process of gaining true and meaningful Independence .. I consider myself a Classic Republican, a Jeffersonian Republican in the form of Classical Republicanism, which is the mold from which many of the ideas of modern Liberal-Socialism evolved — but I support NO PARTY. I never have. I never will. – Because Political Parties DO NOT exist to serve the needs of ALL of the People — they ONLY serve the will of their voters in order to keep themselves in Power. – This is the Prime Directive of ALL political parties. The truth of ALL Political Parties .. The SNP – including Salmond and his cohorts, including Sturgeon and her cohorts – have proven, on multiple occasions, that they are corrupt and criminal — just as corrupt and criminal as all other political parties .. They are not Respectable. They are not honorable – Nicola Sturgeon is a Career Politician. And like all career politicians, she will say, or do, whatever is deemed “the best message” to remain in power — and then not do what the People NEED — or what the nation needs — that means ALL of Scotland – including those people who disagree with you .. including the poor, the homeless, the little tiny village of ten people on the far edge of the Nation that never gets visited by any politician .. every single political party in Scotland, and across the world, has proven it is run by corrupt, criminal politicians .. Labour .. Conservative .. Green .. Lib-Dem .. and, yes, SNP .. The PEOPLE of Scotland need to quit “taking sides” with this party manifesto or that party manifesto or the “Cult of the Leader” .. and start listening to each other and COMPROMISING with each other and working out what issues are going to best serve the PEOPLE of Scotland, without allowing “the one national party” to gain absolute control and hegemony OVER the People .. the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America was written without any Political Party Manifesto and without any single person as “the chosen one” .. the American Colonists – many of them escaping the Tyrannical English Rule over Scotland and Wales and Ireland and Northern Britain – despised Political Parties .. despised the few, and the elite, having too much power .. and, as we all know, US Political Parties on BOTH Sides have destroyed the United States of America — because they put the survival of “their” party, or “their leader”, above the needs of the People, and the Nation as a whole .. Freedom. Yes .. Independence. Yes. Education and Healthcare and Retirement and Freedom to Travel and International Trade. Yes .. but a SINGLE Political Party? – and a SINGLE Party Leader? With a near cultish following? Whose already been in power for WAAY too long? – and controlling all the Political Powers and the all the decisions pre-Independence? – over the course of a National Independence Movement that will have her STILL in power post-Independence? — NO! Absolutely NOT! — “Worship the Party” and You will end up with a ‘Queen For Life’, replaced by “someone of her choosing”, who will also be “King or Queen for Life” — sound familiar? It’s what you’ve been trying to escape for the last 300 years — and, I guarantee you, people who oppose SNP policies, or who oppose the “interminable reign” of “her royal heinous”, Nicola Sturgeon, will be beaten and thrown into jail for having “moderately conservative views” on Shetland Island — because every single political party has done it at some time in the past .. follow the party line – any party line – including SNP – and you will end up with another Saxe-Coburg Dynasty ruling unelected and with Absolute Power — and the People Starving, with Nothing for their Future .. Demand a Constitution that FIRST protects ALL the Rights of the People, SECOND outlaws Political Parties and Special Interest Groups controlling elections, THIRD requires a minimum 60% majority approval of the People IN VOTE to pass or rescind any law, and FOURTH ensures ALL the people in Scotland, whether citizens or visitors, are treated equally and with respect and compassion, regardless of their political and social views ~ #ComesMacbradh. The Bastard of Macbeth. #KingOfTheScots. #KingOfThePicts. #KingOfTheNorse. #KingOfTheBrits. Hereby offering myself, if #Elected, by the People of Scotland, to an absolute Maximum of 10 years, or two elections, whichever the people chose. Taking my oath on Moot Hill, in Scone, as the ancient Kings of Scotland did, for the sole purpose of serving the People of Scotland and ensuring their Rights are legally protected from abusive governments, foreign and domestic. Primogeniture will be outlawed. My replacement to be elected by the People of Scotland, according to their will, and in service to their needs. To Be That Nation Again. Until 10 Of Us Are Left ..