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Wings Over Scotland

A trick we’ve seen before

Posted on March 13, 2019 by

The Scotsman is delighted to have some bad news to report:

So, the number of teachers is falling, right?

Well, no.

Alert readers who know how to interpret the Scottish media might have had warning klaxons blaring in their heads already, on account of the Scotsman’s inexplicable comparison to 2008 – a date of no particular relevance to anything except that it marked the beginning of the financial crisis which led to the UK government’s austerity programme and the slashing of the Scottish Government’s budget.

But what would happen if we were to pick a different arbitrary starting point?

What we’d actually find is that secondary-school teacher numbers in Scotland have been rising for the last three years, in keeping with pupil numbers. In previous years they’d fallen slightly, also in keeping with pupil numbers.

(The movement in any given year, in either direction, has never been more than roughly one teacher per school of 800-900 pupils.)

If we go back to the start of the century – the first full year of devolution – there was one teacher for every 12.95 pupils in Scottish secondary schools. After the last eight years of austerity and budget cuts there’s now one teacher for every 12.27 pupils, which is a modest improvement.

(It’s the same ratio there was in 2005, after a decade of economic boom.)

Let’s just do that ratio for every year:

It’s… it’s not exactly a cliff edge, is it?

The truth of the matter is that the number of teachers in Scottish secondary schools has in real terms barely moved in 20 years, and the movement there’s been over that period has been a positive one. The figure has been almost completely static since UK government austerity began in 2010.

Literally the ONLY way you can portray it as a perceptible decline (and even then it’s still a tiny one) is to arbitrarily count from 2007 or 2008, which by a quite astonishing coincidence is the time period the Scotsman and the Tories have chosen.

It’s all rather strikingly reminiscent of a story we ran in 2016, when another increase in teacher numbers was again presented by the Scottish media with the most negative spin possible, by singling out individual local authorities where numbers had fallen.

And that’s because in Scotland, all news must be bad news.

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    1. 13 03 19 13:56

      A trick we’ve seen before | speymouth

    430 to “A trick we’ve seen before”

    1. Bob Mack says:

      Teacher numbers must have fallen. What else could explain the dire numeracy skills of these journalists? Remedial classes required.

      Sighs ruefully!

    2. gordoz says:

      Jeez you are good Rev.
      Unionism supporters must absolutely hate you for calling out their media manipulation.
      Are Editors at Scotchman now using placement students for their front line research material ???

    3. misteralz says:

      Ahhhh, The Scotsman, reporting a drop in maths and English teachers with a picture of a chemistry one. Fuds.

    4. Fleming says:

      They’re so sleakit. And by now so obvious.

    5. Welsh Sion says:

      Where ‘up’ means ‘down’ and ‘falling’ is the ‘equivalent’ of rising and where ’23 317′ is less than ’23 150′ which itself is less than ’22 957′ you’ve got to congratulate the journalists at the Scotsman and the Tories for their excellent numeracy and English language skills.

    6. Welsh Sion says:

      Must be coz of the ‘plummeting numbers of teachers.’


    7. Luigi says:


      The BBC and the rest of the British Nationalist MSM don’t even try to hide it or dress up the propaganda anymore. Just downright, blatant lies. How can any year in the past be carefully selected to compare with the present situation?

      It’s like saying there is no evidence of global warming because the earth is considerably cooler than it was three million years ago.

      This deliberate attempt to misinform readers makes my blood boil.

    8. Monica Worley says:

      Scotland also has a better teacher per pupil ratio than anywhere else in the UK. Don’t see that mentioned in the Scotsman’s story either.

    9. Sinky says:

      Another great article from Wings.

      It is important that we get such stuff out to the public via social media, phone ins and letter columns as the Brit Nat media has an inbuilt bias.

      Don’t leave this to others as everyone who believes in an independent Scotland needs be more pro active and keep showing Scotland in a positive light particularly compared to the shambles public services are in England and Wales.

    10. Gary45% says:

      Its amazing how Scotland’s overall “everything/being” became “SH*TE” when the SNP came to power.
      Must be true cause the Yoon meja says so.
      “Aye Right enough”.

    11. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Dunno how Rev manages to make these connections in his heid. Mine’s getting nippy just thinking about it…


    12. Truth says:

      I had a debate with a teacher over the recent pay award.

      They argued it wasn’t good enough and if the country wanted to address teachers leaving in droves the offer would need to be better.

      I pointed out similar stats and observances to Stu, that the number of teachers is closely correlated with the number of pupils and there was no evidence of teachers leaving in droves. The response was irrational nonsense followed by then deleting everything they had said.

    13. SilverDarling says:

      Might also be worth considering the falling birth rate too. Pupil numbers no bolstered by immigration either. So teacher numbers rise in the face of falling pupil numbers?

      ‘We’ve just released new birth figures – 12,580 births were registered in Scotland in Q4 of 2018, the lowest ever Q4 total. That’s 5.9% lower than Q4 of 2017.’

    14. ronnie anderson says:

      Englaisi media in Teneriffe
      Express/Mail/English media all the same May has got ah good deal

      Hows yous all at home behaving ah hope.

    15. John Bell says:

      My wife was a headteacher in a primary school and pupil numbers dropped year after year in a labour held area. Rather than upset parents they kept schools open for years which were undersubscribed and nearly empty. Millions of pounds was wasted.

    16. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Simply reporting the news isn’t what these hacktivists do.Yes,that’s right: HACKTIVISTS.

    17. Ross says:

      Eh? The article is about English and Maths teachers.

      Not the total teacher figure.

      For this article to be coherent please tell us the

      Per pupil ratio for these subjects.

    18. galamcennalath says:

      Does anyone still doubt that articles like this Scotman one are anything other than contrived propaganda?

      Is it not obvious that the object here was to write another piss poor SNPBaaad story?

      How many countries in the world have as much fake newsn their media?

    19. Ross says:

      Why is it great Sinky?

      He’s conflating a report about English and Maths teachers with TOTAL teacher numbers.

    20. Shug says:

      Nailed them again stu
      Suck that up bbc

    21. Martin says:

      Not to defend the MSM or anything, but the comparison (whilst welcome for overall knowledge in arguments with Labour types) doesn’t really work. The article is specifically about Maths and English teachers. The total teacher number doesn’t really refute their statement as we could be seeing a huge rise in gender studies teachers or some other such new age rubbish.

      And knowing the Maths and English scenario is quite important as these are the 2 most important subjects for anyone applying to almost any further education.

    22. Arbroath1320 says:

      Ah the good old Hootsmon, sister paper to the Edinburgh Evening Times who have been running a poll about people wanting another indy ref. … or not.

      Incompetence and ignorance seems to run in the “family”.

      I wonder what could possibly go wrong? 😀

    23. Clootie says:

      When will this rag close it’s doors?
      It is not being kept open by sales. So who is paying?

    24. Ruglonian says:

      Totally agree Ian B 😀

      Ronnie we always behave – you’re the bad influence man 😉
      Hope you’re having a good rest btw

    25. Capella says:

      @ ronnie anderson – happy holiday Ronnie – you’re missing Yet Another Momentous Week in Politics in Old Blighty. Lucky you!

    26. galamcennalath says:

      Clootie says:

      When will this rag close it’s doors?

      It would serve no purpose for it (and others) to continue beyond independence. Much of their raison d’être has become pro Union / anti Scottish propaganda so traditional media business models are irrelevant. After Indy, any reason for continuing will be have gone.

      The same is probably true for all the old Scottish broadsheets. The tabloids might survive on gossip, murder, and fitba for a while. ‘Scottish’ versions of English papers must have a very low life expectancy.

    27. Sinky says:

      Bbc Politics live again ignores the SNP and cuts out coverage of Kirsty Blackman’s response to Chancellors Spring Statement. Scotland doesn’t count for the London media that influences those who don’t closely follow politics

    28. Legerwood says:

      Ross says:
      13 March, 2019 at 12:56 pm
      Why is it great Sinky?

      He’s conflating a report about English and Maths teachers with TOTAL teacher numbers.””

      The factors which affect total teacher numbers – decrease in the number of schools, decrease in the number of pupils – will also act to reduce the number of teachers in any given subject area.

      Therefore just reporting the fall in the number of teachers of English and Maths is fairly meaningless and, as such, misleading.

      Only by showing the number of teachers in each of the subject areas over that time period as a percentage of the teachers in each subject area and comparing those figures to the fall in English and Maths, as a percentage of total number of English and Maths teachers at each time point can you then say that the fall in E&M is above what you might expect when the number of schools and number of pupils are declining.

      That is a lot of number crunching. In the absence of that comprehensive data then noting the fall in the total number of schools and number of pupils goes some way to explaining the fall in the number of E&M teachers.

      Reporting it in the way the newspapers have done without the context provided by including the fall in the number of schools and number of pupils is deliberately misleading.

      The Rev has provided that context.

    29. Legerwood says:

      galamcennalath says:
      13 March, 2019 at 1:43 pm
      Clootie says:

      When will this rag close it’s doors?””

      Hopefully not too soon given that Brexit may interrupt supplies of toilet paper.

    30. Martin says:

      Legerwood I disagree. You’re quite correct to point out the flaw in the article and its cherry picking of data to serve its own agenda, but to state that the trend overall for teachers is going to be similar for English and Maths without providing evidence really doesn’t add up. Without the figures to hand one could easily make the opposite conclusion- the Maths and English results must be total outliers and that’s why the hootsmon has jumped on them.

      Normally the Rev refutes these things very well, but on this occasion I don’t think the claims of the article have been addressed at all.

      Using surrogate data is almost always unhelpful and often harmful.

    31. SilverDarling says:

      @Ross 12.53
      I agree ratios are needed but I think the original article omits them as well? The problem is the screaming headline which immediately conjures up images of children leaving school illiterate and innumerate because of the lack of teachers.

      I don’t know about the CfE but I was aware that previously pupils could avoid both English and Maths at Higher and avoid one or the other at Standard grade in some schools if they wanted, something never allowed in my day. Maybe the numbers in Maths and English, which were always historically high, fell and are now picking up.

      All speculation of course, which is why these articles are so damaging. Maybe some clarification all round would be more useful from the MSM.

      I think the Mail goes on class numbers rising as well. Again headline only but I wonder if it mentions whether some are composite classes because of the falling intake at P1?

      At least we know what the Labour and the Tories will lead on at FMQs this week.

    32. jfngw says:


      The tables they are using are here, table 3.9.

      They are excluding teachers that teach English and Maths as well as other subjects. Including these, it’s difficult as the totals for the previous years don’t indicate if these dual teachers are included, they are the highest numbers in Eng & Maths since 2012.

    33. Arajag says:

      Why do you think those two headlines are incompatible? One says the number of Maths and English teachers has fallen. The other says thee number of teachers in total has risen. It is perfectly conceivable that both these statements are true.

    34. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s covered by the teacher pupil ratio, but in those 20 years there was a drop in birth rate, not sure how many years of if consistent. Like this / last year because of Brexit.

      Looking ahead 10 or 11 years, there would therefore be a slightly lower need for teachers. So a chart of births in a year would also help.

    35. Martin says:


      That’s good, but it still doesn’t solve the issue. Looking at overall teacher numbers to prove the hootsmon article wrong is as flawed a method as looking at the English and Maths teachers in isolation over a one year period in telling us what we want to know. I’m aware that unless the Hootsmon had themselves started this with subset reporting this would all be moot, but start it they did and I’m afraid that’s the thing we need to challenge.

    36. Confused says:

      We should call Professor McClownFace to check these numbers for us.

      – and tell us how many degrees he’s got as well.

      been doin some economicalist researching of my own – do you know …

      50% of people are BELOW average, think on that.
      we have an SNP gubmint, think on that.
      – coincidence, no?

      under a Labour, unionist govt, 50% of people were ABOVE average – thinkon that.
      ABOVE or BELOW. Your choice.

      changed my view entirely. wait till lenny-the-dick hears about this.

    37. Iain 2 says:

      What will all the foreign newspaper owners do when Scotland shortly becomes independant?

    38. Muscleguy says:

      I doubt the journos concerned are innumerate. It’s like Creation ‘Science’. I was visiting my eldest sister down under a while back and they had a ‘Science’ mag from the Creation ‘Science’ Institute and it had as a cover article something I knew about. The twisting of it made my head hurt but it was absolutely obvious that whoever wrote it MUST have properly understood the science in the first place in order to be able to distort it in that way.

      The Americans call this Lying For Jebus. I think Unionist rag/MSM TV journos are Lying For Brenda/Theresa. This is deliberate not due to innumeracy.

    39. Republicofscotland says:

      Who actually buys the Scotsman, you’d need to be a right doom and gloom monger to purchase such a rag. Thankfully its circulation is not ehzt it once was.

    40. ross says:


      “Therefore just reporting the fall in the number of teachers of English and Maths is fairly meaningless and, as such, misleading.”

      Sorry but it’s not meaningless at all. It’s extremely important to know what proportion of total teachers are in those subjects. And the proportion of those teachers to pupil.

      I would suggest it’s fairly meaningless and misleading to bulk all teach together and give an overall figure actually.

    41. ross says:


      I’m not suggesting the article being analysed is perfect. I like WoS for debunking this kind of thing but his analysis doesn’t do that. He also omits context.

      There’s absolutely no context given at all from WoS on Maths and English teachers in his article. His first question has nothing to do with the point being made in the article. That should give anybody pause for thought.

      I’ll call out when our side have it wrong too.

    42. geeo says:


      Clearly you are not here to be convinced of anything.

      You have had at least 2 explanations yet still you bump your agenda.

      Its not our fault you cannot understand those explanations.

      Maybe you should have paid more attention in School.

    43. CameronB Brodie says:

      Although Educational Theory is not my speciality, I think the the ‘fundamental British values’ (FBV) agenda is problematic.

      Is Britain’s education system fit for purpose?

      David Kingman looks at the findings of new research into problems affecting different parts of Britain’s education system

      One of the keys to equipping the next generation of young people with the skills they need to compete in the modern labour market is creating an education system which delivers positive outcomes for all young people, regardless of their backgrounds or the type of skills they choose to pursue. Unfortunately, two new pieces of research have suggested that the education system is likely to fail in this task because of flawed government policies which could place the future of thousands of young people at risk….

      ‘Our education system may be far from perfect, but criticism should at least be based on solid research…’

      …and, sadly, that cannot be said about the latest report from the Education Policy Institute, writes one investigative journalist

      Criticisms of educational research: key topics and levels of analysis

      The Great British Values Disaster – education, security and vitriolic hate

    44. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – jings
      Apparently the “Malthouse Compromise” is back in play. Well, if it relies on tech like cameras and ANPR the chances of any such equipment surviving along a 310 mile long border with as many as 275 crossing points as the BBC describe it, through largely Republican land as someone somewhere back in Dublin possibly wearing jeggings pointed out, for more than one night, is precisely nil.

    45. manandboy says:

      I suspect that if the Colony, Scotland, was somewhere in Africa, the Scotsman would have been the subject of more than a few accidental fire investigations.

      The broadcasting of lies ought to be a criminal offence. But then, this is the motherland of the British Empire – lying for over 300 years.

    46. Martin says:

      @geeo 13 March, 2019 at 2:56 pm

      What a blinkered and unengaged response. I have no agenda except the hatred of surrogate outcomes. I’ve had 2 explanations about how teacher numbers in general can be assumed to be reflected in the maths and english fidures. Assumptions are dangerous and damaging.

      Resorting to personal insults is petty and beneath the level expected on this site. I’d wager my educational achievements would surpass yours, if I were the type to engage in that sort of tripe.

    47. twathater says:

      According to the hootsman and the other presstitutes it wouldn’t matter the subject , whether it be edumacation or finance the SNP SG are baaaaaddd and the britnat onionist parties would always do better

      I mean you only have to look at the super dooper administration taking place in the other UK countries where presstitute reports recently highlighted that head teachers were appealing to parents to set up direct debits to fund not only school materials but also the maintenance of the fucking buildings their kids are taught in , they have suggested these DD’S should be for £ 12 to £ 1400 pounds per annum per pupil WTAF.

      Instead of apologising , rationalising or excusing the baaaaddd SNP administration we should be highlighting the huge clusterfuck that the liebour and tory parties are making in their edumacation administration

    48. Robert Louis says:

      Michael Gove right now showing in the HoC, what a miserable wee spineless turd of a creepy wee suck up, he is. I don’t know why he doesn’t just crawl right up Theresa May’s a**e.

    49. manandboy says:

      The most important subject taught in British schools including University, is British Propaganda. It is also the premier subject in the Lifelong Learning scheme. So a spokesman for the Conservative & Labour Party is alleged to have said.

    50. geeo says:


      I bet your da’s bigger than my da’….!!

      What a pathetic entity you are.

    51. Martin says:

      geeo says:

      13 March, 2019 at 3:25 pm

      Says the anonymous person who failed to grasp any of my points, started a personal attack and accused me of an agenda? My response was appropriate and heavily influenced with satire. Perhaps you should go away and think about how you engage in polite debate with people.

    52. It is reported that sources inside West Bromich Albion are tipping Steven Gerrard to take over as head coach with immediate effect following the sacking od Darren Moore.
      WBA still have an outside chance of an automatic promotion chance so the Midlands club are prepared to offer £6 million in compensation to RFC if Gerrard agrees to leave Ibrox this week.
      Rumours that Tavernier and Morelos will be Gerrard’s summer targets are played down by the Ibrox Board as Press speculation.
      Now that’s what I call news these days.

    53. robbo says:

      Gove is a fecking wee arse of a man

      Gove is a fecking wee scamp of a man

      Gove is wee fecking shit

    54. twathater says:

      BTW watched the indy14 prog on bbc jockland last night , was impressed by the highlighting that WOS was the place to go for the truth and the debunking of the lies spewed by the msm media , I wonder how many new people will visit to find out if it is indeed true
      Also noted that AS then and NS now are facing the same onslaught of currency questions , why don’t they give grumpy bob’s (keys ) forthright reply that Scotland ALREADY has it’s own currency the Scottish pound and will continue to use it , and the bank of england is not owned by england but is jointly owned by Scotland , and when we leave we will be looking for our share of the proceeds

    55. CameronB Brodie says:

      Some folk aren’t going to like this but not everything in the philosophical direction Scotland is taking is peachy. The direction of travel is sound, it’s just that some of the footing is sounder than others.

      Scotland’s Curriculum for Excellence: the betrayal of a whole generation?

      ….Yet the curriculum has recently been the centre of widespread disquiet. The arguments are of a uniquely Scottish kind because they pit the entire leadership class in policy against maverick outsiders. So these critiques are partly invisible. But they reflect a sense that a once-admired education system is now mediocre.

      That decline is most evident in the three-yearly studies run by the OECD – the Programme for International Student Assessment, which measures the attainment of students aged around 15. Scotland used to be well ahead of the OECD average. It has now sunk to average, not only because other places have advanced rapidly but also because there has been an absolute Scottish decline. Similar conclusions are reached by the annual Scottish Survey of Literacy and Numeracy, which has shown since 2011 a fall in attainment in both of these curricular areas among children in primary school and in early secondary….

      Critical approaches to education-based meritocracy: the case of Britain


    56. Gordon Bickerton says:

      This is why we need Wings.

    57. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Michael Gove. The man’s a total buffoon.

      Education in England: a history

      ….The argument for mass education was eventually won, but the system which emerged, towards the end of the nineteenth century, was based on the entrenched class divisions of English society.

      These divisions survived into the twentieth century, only now it was argued that they were based not on social class, but on the theory of fixed intelligence promoted by Cyril Burt and the eugenicists. The result was the tripartite system of grammar, technical and secondary modern schools, established in 1945.

      By this time, however, the notion of fixed intelligence had been shown to be spurious and, for a brief spell – in the 1960s and early 1970s – it looked as though, finally, all of England’s children would enjoy the benefits of being educated together in schools which were fully comprehensive.

      But it was not to be. The neo-liberal governments of Margaret Thatcher and John Major began the process of turning the public education service into a market: competition was now seen as more important than collaboration; choice and diversity were valued more highly than equality of opportunity.

      Tony Blair’s New Labour governments took the process further by creating a multiplicity of schools – including the academies – and increasing the number and range of faith schools, while at the same time attempting to micromanage the teaching process itself.

      Under Gordon Brown, Ed Balls tried to take a holistic view of the needs of children, but refused to reverse the overall direction of government policy.

      And finally, Michael Gove sought to change almost every aspect of England’s education system to the point where the word ‘system’ hardly seemed appropriate any more.

    58. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I would quite like to hear Tinto Chiel’s take on all of this…

      “Broadsword calling Tinto Chiel…Broadsword calling Tinto Chiel…”


    59. heraldnomore says:

      Gove, if this is his pitch for the top job, get us out of there pdq. Things may fly at the screen shortly.

    60. Dr Jim says:

      Plummeting Crashing, all hope is lost, disaster looms, the end is nigh, carelessnes recklessnes cavalier attitude the SNP are the devil, the trouble is comics like the Scotsman have been doing this for so long they can’t get out of the habit and they could think about hiring a maths teacher to count their sales figures for doing it, nobody believes this nonsense anymore, a teacher leaves, there are more training up to do the job just like any business that has staff turnover, but no, comics like the Scotsman try to make their ridiculous point by almost inferring a person cannot and will never be replaced by another because Scotland is incapable of finding people to fill a job

      Just like Michael Gove poses as a human the Scotsman poses as a newspaper, and everybody can see right through Michael Gove

    61. Back from 1943 to 1948 in secondary school, no teacher taught only English or maths, they usually taught geography or history as well.

    62. Dave McEwan Hill says:


      Big bribe to the “Borderlkands” from Hammond announced today. Mundell must know his bum is oot the windae

    63. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Corrected. Message to self – correct copy before posting it

      Big bribe to the “Borderlands” from Hammond announced today. Mundell must know his bum is oot the windae.

    64. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Louis
      I think he did and she’s taking a dump.

    65. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Jack collatin at 3.35

      I wonder if the bears know that Gerrard went to a kafflic school and his fourth child is called Lourdes.

    66. SilverDarling says:

      @Ross 2.45

      Fair point.

      We are not here to slavishly agree about everything. If we can do it reasonably then even better. We are probably all more accomplished at critical reading than 6 years ago!

    67. 70th anniversary of the George Orwell novel `1984`,

      first published in June 1949,

      UK/Scottish politics and media,

      “You are a slow learner, Winston.”
      “How can I help it? How can I help but see what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.”
      “Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane.” .

    68. yesindyref2 says:

      That order to mainland EU I mentioned, courier is 48 hours guaranteed standard priority. Good price too, hardly any more than to the H&I – and that’s a great price relative to other couriers, the one I use, just 50% more than “inland UK”.

    69. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. our critical reading skills,

      Critical Reading and Reading Strategy

      What is Critical Reading?

      Reading critically does not, necessarily, mean being critical of what you read.

      Both reading and thinking critically don’t mean being ‘critical’ about some idea, argument, or piece of writing – claiming that it is somehow faulty or flawed.

      Critical reading means engaging in what you read by asking yourself questions such as, ‘what is the author trying to say?’ or ‘what is the main argument being presented?’

      Critical thinking
      Critical reading

      Succeeding in postgraduate study
      Session 4: Critical reading and writing
      3 Being critical in your writing

    70. Giving Goose says:

      Robert Louis

      Probably because he would find the way blocked by James Kelly’s legs.

    71. yesindyref2 says:

      What I used to do to get the news was read the Telegraph and the likes of the Guardian (can’t remember which other main one was labour), and see what’s in common, fair chance it’s near the truth. Or maybe the Record and the Mail! I kept a salt cellar ready when watching the BBC. Scotland was never properly covered of course, by any of them, though the Glasgow Herald was pretty good in those days, way better than the London-centric Scotsman.

    72. Ghillie says:

      ‘I’d wager my educational achievements would surpass yours, if I was the type to engage in that sort of tripe.’

      I think you just did show that you are indeed into that sort of tripe. =)

    73. defo says:

      Betcha Latrine’s in Leaskys cluster.

    74. Legerwood says:

      ross @ 2.45 pm

      Ok, I shall put it another way.

      From 2008 to 2018 the number of teachers of English fell from 2992 to 2473 which is 519 teachers. This is a drop of 17%.

      From 2008-2018 the number of maths teachers fell from 2787 to 2364 which is 423 teachers. This is a drop of 15%.

      From 2008 to 2018 the total number of FTE teachers fell from 26067 to 23317 which is 2750 FTE. This is a drop of 10.5%

      Therefore the drop in the number of teachers in E&M is 7% and 5% above the average fall in numbers due to decline in the number of schools and in the overall number of pupils over that decade.

      Therefore there is a drop in numbers but not a collapse. The actual drop equates to less than 1 teacher per school, assuming an even spread which, in the absence of a more detailed breakdown, is a working assumption albeit a shaky one.

      This can be filled by supply teachers until the next cohort of teachers arrive from Uni and there are two such times during the course of a year. Students studying at Stirling uni can do a Diploma in Education concurrently with their degree. This adds 6 months into the length of a degree but means they join the job market in January a full 6 months ahead of those doing a degree followed by a one year PGCE.

      The newspapers were wrong to use raw data without context. The Rev was correct to point out the bigger picture although he may not have delved into it as deeply as some may have wished it still emphasised the point he was making.

    75. Al-Suart says:

      Rev Stu.,

      I am still furious with the SNP and how they mistreated my friend’s registered charity. Fiona Hyslop is a disgrace and should not be in office.

      But whenever I get anywhere near voting Labour or considering a no vote at IndyRef2, your website keeps me sane.

      Your forensic style is worthy of a Pulitzer prize.

      This thread and the utter disgrace of The Scotsman newspaper’s lies, especially with your demolition of their dissembling bring me back to voting yes every day.

      For what it is worth, I think there are a lot of ex-Labour voters like me that sometimes feel they are being let down by the SNP. But whatever grumble I and others may have, the SNP are 100 times better than SLAB and a million times better that the Tory rape-clause Ruth, disabled killing Tories ( ).

      Rev, please keep up the good work. Thankyouu.

    76. Dave McEwan Hill @4.09 pm.
      So it’s true!
      Gerrard is leaving Ibrox for WBA and taking Tavernier and Morales with him!
      Shock! Horror! Shockaroonie!
      Hold the front page, and pages 32 to 46.
      Or maybe not.
      I wouldn’t put it past some enterprising Dead Tree Scroller to build a ‘story’ out of our bit of fluffery.
      A considerable proportion of the mugs who still actually buy the Hootsman or Herald Britland are Blue and Green knuckledraggers who would venture out into the street to check out the splattered moggies and pooches if you casually remarked that it was raining cats and dogs.

      “Gerrard laughs off report of an approach by WBA to take over as head Coach as troll prank.”
      See pages 36 to 38 inside.
      This is how the Brit Nat Propaganda Machine works now.
      Lies travel half way around the world before the Truth has got its boots on.
      Murty to return as caretaker manager?

    77. SilverDarling says:


      Definitely best to read as widely as possible.

      I can’t recall the source but I read somewhere that if you got beyond the horrible content, the Sun was actually good at presenting complicated information in an easy to read way. The reading age was the same or lower than for the Record (8yrs old?) but the Record really dumbed down the core points.

      The Telegraph and Financial Times style and content came in at about 17 or 17.5 yrs. I would think many of these ratings have changed since then with most dumbing down probably due to the Internet collating article from different sources.

      I must try to find it.

    78. call me dave says:

      Just catching up on the debate, missed most of it.

      Kenneth Clarke (of the hush puppy shoes and some good jazz):

      Talking a bit of sense there in the HoC debate.

      Also condemning the way the EU referendum was run.
      Smuggling in Ireland will now be a growth industry. 🙂

    79. manandboy says:

      It appears that Westminster is heading for a complete breakdown.

      Normally in such cases, patient recovery is slow and difficult and quite beyond the capacity required for normal working, including communication in both directions.

      MPs are human, Westminster is a human institution ; we are not going to see a quick recovery and a return to normal working. This is a true crisis and a genuine breakdown in the making.

      This situation has serious implications for Scotland, Northern Ireland and the EU – and later perhaps for Wales. But most of all for England itself.

      As has been noted elsewhere – these are uncharted waters. No one knows what lies beneath what can currently be seen. Westminster has chosen to set a very dangerous course indeed under its somewhat hapless Captain.

      There is no rescue service for Brexit.

      Meanwhile, the people in the streets, shops and buses where I live, are largely oblivious to what is going on. Certainly, no one is talking about it. Perhaps they’re depending on the British Brainwashing Corporation to tell them what to think.

    80. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Legerwood @ 16:33,

      A commendably informed and apposite response, as is your wont.

      Far more convincing than a rapid descent into petty insults merely because someone dares to question some of the article specifics.

    81. galamcennalath says:

      MPs to vote on Malthouse Compromise. What seems astonishing is that it appears to be a ‘compromise’ among Tory views. At this late stage, after the EU and UK have agreed a WA, pissing around with internal Tory negotiations is mad!

      Malthouse appears to be … Leave on No Deal, but get a two months extension so the ‘no deal, can be orderly, Eh? Then behave for two years like the UK is still an EU member until trade deal is sorted. I think the chances of the EU changing direction and agreeing to this are zero.

      If MPs pass this nonsense then we are all in the shite!

    82. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      call me dave @ 16:46,

      On the R4 lunchtime news, he was commending a customs union. Seems some of the less deranged Tories are finally getting round to the same place where the SG was a whole two years ago.

      Not that people would ever likely find that out from the media.

    83. call me dave says:

      Excellent stuff from Stephen Gethins NE Fife SNP.

      We do have a good selection of SNP MPs elected from the last elections better all round than anything darn Sarf in my opinion!

      Might have a few more soon but I’d rather they were ploughing a furrow in Holyrood in an independent Scotland ASAP.

    84. CameronB Brodie says:

      If May has orchestrated this clusterfuck in order to encourage support for the withdrawal of A50, then she is a political genius. I don’t think her record in office supports such a conclusion.

      The Brexit vote was instigated as a means of settling internal Tory division over EU membership. It exposed Britain’s constitution to populist direct rule and was thoroughly compromised with dark money from oversees. The Prime-minister has lost control of English politics, which is no longer recumbent but now rampant in it’s exceptionalism.

    85. Effijy says:

      Rev, I will keep your statue in Independance Square Polished
      And shining in all weathers.

      Must be Westminster Dark Money going to the Yanks who own
      The Hootsmon’s Hilarious Howlers Pamphlet.

      It’s costing someone a lot of money to maintain
      This seldom read suicide note.

    86. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      CameronB Brodie @ 17:16,

      Which makes it all the weirder that May keeps dogmatically insisting she is only respecting “the will of the people”.

      An “advisory” will that’s set in concrete and can’t possibly be allowed to change, of course.

      Referendums have always been a convenient part of the toolkit of the demagogue.

    87. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, I think it was the Record and Sun, not DM – though the Mail was good for Money Mail in those days. Yes, Sun, because it had the horse racing, you could get the Racing Post (or was there one before that?) in the bookies 🙂

    88. stewartb says:

      Some heat rather than light being generated BTL today regarding the article on English and Maths teacher numbers in Scottish secondary schools.

      As jfngw says @ 1:59 pm, the key source of census data is Table 3.9 here:

      As well as giving the number of teachers (‘full time equivalents’) with English or with Maths as their ‘main subject’, the table also gives the total FTEs for ‘all subjects’, in all cases since 2008.

      It seems reasonable to suppose that the total FTEs for ‘all subjects’ will be influenced by the total number of pupils, especially if a key metric for policy makers is the Pupil/Teacher ratio and at a time of public funding constraint. It seems to me that Stu’s article makes a related point and provides relevant, important context.

      However, his article doesn’t shine any light on the data relating specifically to teachers of English and Maths, the subject raised in The Scotsman.

      Given that English and Maths are two core subjects taken by most (all?) pupils then one might reasonably expect the FTE number of teachers whose ‘main subject’ is either English or Maths to track the trend in the ‘all subjects’ FTE data. From a quick look I don’t think it does: the overall reduction in numbers since 2008 (a date chosen simply because it’s the oldest data given in the census’ table) appears to be greater for these two subjects than for the ‘all subjects’ category. (This could be checked out by plotting the data in Table 3.9 with a little more effort but I need to catch up on Brexit matters just now.)

      So part of the changes in English and Maths teacher numbers may be linked to an overall change in pupil numbers but there seems to be another factor in play.

      jfngwt @ 1:59 pm noted rightly that Table 3.9 also gives data for the number of teachers who teach English or Maths but do NOT identify these in the census as their ‘main subject’. It is my reading of Table 3.9 that unfortunately it only gives such data for 2018. (It may be that census publications in previous years will provide comparable data for pre-2018.)

      The availability of teachers for English or Maths classes in any given school could be substantially influenced by having ‘dual’ subject specialists on staff. (Of course there is a wide rage of subject specialists that might be able to contribute to the teaching of say Maths as a subsidiary subject at some level – e.g. teachers of physics, chemistry, computing, business studies.) This is not factored in to The Scotsman article.

      The final point to make is that the same census, specifically Table 8.2, provides data on Pupil/Teacher ratios for Secondary Schools since 2008 by Local Authority area. Again from a ‘quick look’, it appears that although this ratio remains pretty constant over time in some LAs it varies over time (and in different ways) in others. Intuitively, given that English and Maths teachers will account for large proportions of the teaching workforce, variations in how LAs have performed, especially the larger LAs, in maintaining their own Pupil/Teacher Ratios could have a substantial influence on English and Maths teacher numbers. And who employs teachers? Very largely the LAs.

      (Given the data that have been published, I suspect that the raw, unpublished census data will include by date and by LA, teacher numbers for English and for Maths by both ‘main subject’ and subsidiary subject categories.)

    89. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J. Sutherland
      I think it fits her narrow personality and apparently racist attitudes. Though she started as a Remainer, we know she is apt to push political expedience past common decency. Or to put it more bluntly, she’s wholly untrustworthy.

      I think she’s a Tory cultural nationalist and views Brexit as a means of securing English cultural integrity against brown people, whilst simultaneously consolidating austerity and expanding the scope for further de-regulation through the rejection of the “Precautionery Principle”.

      Scotland, if you like neo-corporatist fascism implemented through the majoritarian abuse of constitutional power, vote to remain part of the UK!

    90. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, apparently the 13 “Scottish” Tories objected to the use by Mike Russell of the hashtag #RagmanRoll.

      I’m guessing they wouldn’t have understood #JohnDeere …

    91. jfngw says:


      The earlier reports do give the previous years totals for teachers in dual subjects (I typed my first response before I checked), if you have the hours to do the comparisons. But you are correct just distilling these raw numbers into a conclusion about the state of education will inform you of nothing useful.

      I used ‘dual subjects’ but some teachers may teach multiple subjects but I think everyone will understand what I’m referring to.

    92. Good work, 9/10.

      Teacher numbers must be reduced, though, but only by one.

      Whoever was responsible for teaching James Kelly MSP should be relieved of their duties immediately.

      Speaking of which, has Kelly handed in his football hooliganism project yet

    93. 13 March, 2019 at 1:43 pm
      Clootie says:

      When will this rag close it’s doors?”

      Minor correction, but Portacabins only have one door!

    94. Ottomanboi says:

      …and there are hundreds of thousands programmed to believe this stuff. We need England and the Union like the Black Death.
      At Westminster the mp for Orkney and Shetland told May that a bird watching building on Fair isle had been destroyed by fire. He asked/ begged for government aid. She replied that a ‘’Scotland Office minister’’ would be informed. Plainly the Scottish Government is incompetent to handle this.
      Carmichael, of course, has form. with his threats of O&S secession; London rule being so Cool.

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT re. Brexit. Sorry for the length of post but contemporary British nationalism scares the hell out of me. If this is the cavalier approach of Westminster to the rule-of-law and human rights, at the birth of a new state, “Brexitania”, then heaven help future generations as economic conditions tighten.

      What will the constitutional status of Brexitanian Scots be, in tomorrows’s Tory wonderland?

      Brexit: understanding the socio-economic origins and consequences

      The unprecedented geopolitical shift resulting from Brexit reflects deep socio-economic fault lines within and beyond the UK. In many ways foreshadowing the US presidential election of Donald Trump, Brexit brought to the surface and gave a public voice to socio-economic divisions that were deeply embedded, sometimes illogical, but until now had either been ignored or hushed out of ‘respectable’ public debate.

      This Discussion Forum emanates from a spontaneous seminar organized 2 days after the Brexit vote on June 25, 2016 as part of the SASE conference held in University of California–Berkeley and followed by an open call for papers by Socio-Economic Review. The papers here draw attention to the origins of the Brexit vote in deep-seated socio-economic divisions (O’Reilly), widening differences in economic performance across sectors and regions of the UK (Froud, Sukhdev and Williams) and the growth of poor quality jobs (Warhurst). Meanwhile, the political dynamics of the Brexit vote were also shaped by the fractured nature of UK business elites (Morgan), divisions between locals and cosmopolitans (Grey) and creative but muddled actions of elites that arguably generated consequences they themselves failed to fully anticipate (Wood and Wright).

      From the perspective of Europe, Brexit reflects a history of dysfunctional economic policy in Europe that prioritized market competition in ways that neglected and ultimately undermined solidarity (Boyer). Here, Brexit reflects a political strategy to both renationalize and recommodify solidarity in the face of fears over migration, and which are likely to have major consequences for social solidarity in Europe more generally (Frerichs and Sankari). However, Brexit is unlikely to provide a durable social and political solution to the wider tensions between globalization and democracy, which also affect all countries throughout Europe (Rona-Tas). Ultimately, the Brexit vote underlines social divisions that combine class inequalities with regional ones, not just in Britain but throughout Europe (Le Galès).

    96. geeo says:

      I see the Tory Caroline Spelman tried to stop her amendment being voted on.

      The one rejecting leaving the EU without a Withdrawal agreement at any point.

      Sadly for her, her co-signatory to the amendment from labour, Yvette Cooper, said actually, it WILL be voted on.

      Whit they like !!Pathetic.

    97. Davosa says:

      Wouldn’t worry about it too much Stu. Nobody up here reads the pathetic shite that is The Hootsman.

    98. geeo says:

      Ayes 312

      No 308

      MPs reject no deal brexit in any circumstances !!

      Is there a word bigger than an omnishambles ???

    99. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Louis says: 13 March, 2019 at 3:08 pm:

      ” … don’t know why he doesn’t just crawl right up Theresa May’s a**e.”

      Whatever makes you imagine he has not already visited that warm, dark and smelly place before, Robert Louis? Perhaps that is the reason the PM always tends to have a sore throat when faced with her HOC bad sessions.

    100. dom says:

      I think everyone is in a state of limbo at the moment.

      Every time you think it can’t go on any further, up pops another deadline date.

      On and on it rumbles.

    101. Robert Peffers says:

      @geeo says: 13 March, 2019 at 3:25 pm:

      ” … I bet your da’s bigger than my da’….!!
      What a pathetic entity you are.”

      Yes, geeo, but your spelling checker is better than his spelling checker.

    102. Brian Powell says:

      According to Robert Peston the vote is non binding.

    103. dom says:

      No Deal is STILL the default option for 29th March.

    104. Macart says:

      @geeo 7.17

      Galactoshamblesmaggedon. 😎

    105. One_Scot says:

      None of these votes are binding according to Moggy and the law currently is that we are leaving on the 29th with No Deal.

    106. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Brian Powell @ 19:32,

      Well of course. Voting it through is just a piece of additional wishful thinking. (Assuming the poison pill of the so-called “Malthouse Compromise” amendment is rejected.)

      Unless the HoC explicitly cancels Brexit, default continues to be “no-deal”.

    107. geeo says:

      There goes the ‘Malthouse Compromise’

      Now we have the farce of, basically, the Government motion has been replaced as the main motion, by the Spelman amendment, so they are now voting on trying to reverse the amendment via the main motion !!!

      And it takes nearly an HOUR to get absolutely nowhere if the main motion is now defeated.

      The government will now be voting AGAINST its own motion, because of the Spelman amendment winning !!

      This would have taken 5 minutes at Holyrood ffs.

    108. One_Scot says:

      Apparently there has been resignations. Please make it be Mundane. 🙂

    109. Ghillie says:

      Whatever it means in reality, the vote to reject ‘no deal’ is a relief.

      Stage by stage, the SNP’s compromises are being adopted.

      And England, the North of Ireland and Wales may yet be saved from the worst ravages of exit from the EU.

      Whatever happens, Scotland will be Independent 🙂

    110. Lanarkist says:

      Will Mundell abstain? In normal times this would mean he would quit! Will he threaten to resign…again?
      “We are operating in new political landscapes” ” normal times”.

      Revoke or no deal!

    111. dom says:

      No Deal is good for Scottish IndyRef2.

      We want the biggest Brexit car crash imaginable.

    112. Nana says:

      The PM has just headed into the “No” lobby to vote against her OWN #Brexit motion.
      You literally couldn’t make this up.

      4 cabinet ministers have abstained – Gauke Rudd Mundell Clark – I’m told and are hoping to keep their job. “It was made clear ministers who voted against will be sacked”

    113. Heart of Galloway says:

      I live in a part of Scotland to where many folk from Northern Ireland have moved since the Troubles began in 1969. Most are of a unionist persuasion.

      Among them are many decent, hard working people. Others are sour, vicious bigots and proud members of the Sammy Wilson fan club.

      Almost without exception their zealotry in opposing Scottish independence knows no bounds. And that ingrained pro-union stance has bridged the generations.

      Any why is this relevant? The DUP is currently pursuing a no surrender Brexit policy which is alienating moderate Protestants in droves and, in a supreme irony, smashing dowm barriers on the road to a United Ireland.

      Should that happy event occur there is a downside for Scotland – the likely arrival of hordes of Unionists diehards on Scottish soil.

      And how would these migrants vote in IndyRef2? We all know the answer to that.

      That’s why Scotland has to get to our political promised land first – before the British-imposed border in Ireland is removed by a majority reunification vote which may be much closer than we think.

    114. Welsh Sion says:

      Geeo @ 7.17pm.

      Is there a word bigger than an omnishambles ???

      – How about “Supercalifragilisticexpialidocioushambles”?

    115. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Chaos in HoC. UKGov has U-turned and 3-line whipped Tories, but even ministers are apparently now inclined to rebel.

    116. Nana says:

      Word is Sarah Newton has resigned as a minister in the lobbies

    117. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      UKGov defeated. Disaster for Dis-May, but she robotically persists.

    118. geeo says:

      Whipoed the vote and lost by another 39 votes!!

      Treeza, still having no deal….!!

      She is demented.

    119. One_Scot says:

      Lol, May has just said this was a waste of time.

    120. geeo says:

      @welsh sion.

      Even that is not big enough now !!

    121. Welsh Sion says:

      Well, geeo. I tried. (I come from the country of Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch, remember!)

      Wish I’d have stockpiled the popcorn, though! *Sigh*

    122. gus1940 says:

      The Bastards at the BBC have done it again – as soon as Ian Blackford stands up to speak they cut to Brillo.

    123. frogesque says:


      BBC fucking bastards again cut off Ian Blackford on a point of order

    124. heraldnomore says:

      Apparently Fluffy abstained. Of course we know he’s not the resigning type…

    125. call me dave says:

      FGS! Where’s Lewis Carrol when you need him.

      Blackford there letting rip, almost declaring independence. 🙂

      H Benn: Indicitive propositions suggested.

      Parliament tv live link:

    126. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT again re. Brexit. Are folk not amazed how English parlimentarians appear unconcerned that the British constitution has just be hijacked? I’m not as I understand the cult of British nationalism.

      If ‘Vote Leave’ Broke the Law, Could Brexit be Void?

      Could Brexit be declared void by a court, and article 50 revoked, if there were major irregularities in the vote? This discussion is real because evidence is emerging of possible fraud, and criminal acts by Vote Leave, Cambridge Analytica, and Aggregate IQ: illegal overspending, psychologically profiling and targeting people with online ads, based on stolen data. This issue has become even more serious because the legal opinion of three barristers is now public on how Vote Leave, and its organiser Dominic Cummings, committed criminal offences.

      This post unpacks the legal arguments on (1) whether the Brexit vote could be declared void for irregularity, (2) if article 50 notification could be revoked, and (3) the issue of foreign interference. It finally addresses the need to raise the integrity of our public discourse.

    127. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      CNN live HoC coverage gives Ian Blackford’s speech in full, and that of Vince Cable, then cuts back to the commentators when Rees-Moggy starts.

      Heh, heh.

      Their earlier piece from Edinburgh even manages to find a couple of young women who volunteer that they want indyref2. You know, the people that the BBC mysteriously never seems to find, somehow.

      They also report that several ministers appear to have resigned.

    128. SilverDarling says:

      Absolute scenes as May’s government devoid of humility refuses to allow the motion to become legislation. Same deal to be put before the house tomorrow – jeez.

    129. mike cassidy says:

      Nana 7.48


      Does that mean May voted against something her ministers were told they risked their jobs if they voted against?

      Are we really that far down the hole with Alice now?

    130. Petra says:

      @ call me dave says at 4:46 pm ….. ”Smuggling in Ireland will now be a growth industry ?”

      No doubt Call me dave. How on earth will they manage to regulate the most extensive cross-border road network in Europe with 208 cross-border roads? That’s twice as many as those crossing the EU’s entire eastern external frontier. But don’t worry the master race based in London will nail it.

      People trafficking will rise and of course the whole set up leaves us wide open to terrorists (not home grown) waltzing right in.


      Add to that:

      ‘The UK will be locked out of Europe’s policing and security databases after Brexit, EU’s chief negotiator says.’

      ……”Britain will be locked out of EU policing and security databases after Brexit, the bloc’s chief negotiator has confirmed. Michel Barnier said the UK would also lose access to the European arrest warrant and that UK representatives would no longer have a role in managing agencies such as Europol and Eurojust.”…



    131. call me dave says:

      Speaker Bercow ‘boiler’working for his money tonight. 🙂

    132. HYUFD says:

      Ghillie Not what polls show, without hard Brexit no poll has anything other than a clear lead for No to independence in Scotland, the Commons is voting in line with what Scots want tonight by making clear it will never accept No Deal, so why should Scots want to leave the Union? Indeed we may even stay in the single market and Customs Union if May’s Deal keeps getting rejected or even jave no Brexit at all.

    133. SilverDarling says:

      Government business tomorrow is a motion on extention of article 50 dependent on the House voting for her deal. Lots of real anger about making extending article 50 conditional.

    134. call me dave says:

      If your hard enough call a motion of no confidence, says Peter Bone MP (Tory) 🙂

    135. HYUFD says:

      As Dom said no deal is good for indyref2, the Commons has voted to permanently reject No Deal tonight

    136. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      CNN guest reckons that Dis-May will try a third time next week and if she wins, she will ask the EU for a short “technical” extension.

      If she loses, it will be a long extension, a complete “clean slate”, including UK participation in the upcoming EU elections.

      Oh, and she is toast.

    137. Petra says:

      @ Nana says at 7:48 pm … ”4 cabinet ministers have abstained – Gauke Rudd Mundell Clark – I’m told and are hoping to keep their job. “It was made clear ministers who voted against will be sacked”

      That wee lying runt Mundell was interviewed on Scotland Tonight … just last night …. and went on about how bad a No Deal Brexit would be for the UK and (after thought) Scotland. When asked how he would be voting today he stated categorically that he would be voting against it. Forget about him resigning, resigning, resigning. He should be sacked. Get him out!

    138. Robert J Sutherland

      I’m following the ongoing discussion in the H o C just now after this evening’s votes and discussing the business for tomorrow.

      MP’s gradually realising that tomorrow’s motion mentions March 20th as the deadline of MP’s to agree a deal with the EU at which point the PM will ask for an extension.Mp\’s indignant that they feel they are being ignored.

      So, yes, it looks like may is going to try and get her vote through a third time – a third meaningful vote – by March 20th, SNP again pushing for revocation of Article 50.

      Total frustration on the floor.

    139. Famous15 says:

      HYFUD = Ragman Rolls signatory. Aiding and abetting Better Together.

    140. Brian Powell says:

      Would Mundell be making way for R Davidson to be S of State in Scotland, I wonder?

    141. HYFUD

      the H o C has voted against NO deal at any time however, as it is a statutary law, an advisory motion from the house apparently cannot alter a statutory law unfortunately Rees -Mogg has got this right.

      It needs the UK Government to change the statutary law. So it looks like we have to wait now till the 20th March.

    142. geeo says:

      I see fuddy is back blithering.

      Try this fuddy.

      If article 50 is revoked, and ukexit cancelled, what is to stop the SNP Scotsgov putting a motion to Holyrood seeking permission to renegotiate the treaty of union with WM ?

      Why ?

      Well, they could reasonably argue that the behaviour of WM and the contempt shown for Scotland over the near 3 years since the ukexit vote, cannot be allowed to happen again, and as such, WM agrees to new terms suitable to Scottish needs, or Holyrood will vote on a motion to dissolve the treaty of union.

      How bout that then, fuddy ?

    143. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Drew Hendry MP did a great job when interviewed on CNN a few minutes ago.

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      No deal would be a disaster for both Scotland and England. Now, fuck off you tit.

    145. dom says:


      No Deal means Nicola can FINALLY fire that IndyRef2 starting gun.

      A win win for us.

    146. CameronB Brodie says:

      Unless it’s your intention to confuse the issue, of course.

    147. geeo says:

      @meg merrilees.

      Yeah, watching it as well, plenty SNP MP’s stayed behind to put the boot in.

      Most of the unionists long since scuttled off to quaff champers it seems.

      Easy to see why the ‘leader’ of the house is called Andrea Loathsome.

      All those saying what are the SNP doing, emm…turn yer telly to parliament tv, a full 40 minutes since treeza fecked off, the SNP are still there holding the tories to account.

    148. dom says:

      No Deal is ideal.

    149. geeo says:

      Oh dear, Dom, you have not been paying attention tonight, have you ?

    150. jfngw says:

      Yesterday I commented that I expected May to use the rejection of a no deal vote to reintroduce her deal. I thought I was being too cynical but it looks like that’s what she is going to do.

      Elsewhere I believe Mundell was on his way to vote against no deal but was suddenly caught short by an attack of the skitters, great shame but at least he won’t have to resign … again!

    151. HYUFD says:

      Geeo The SNP can whinge as much as they want, if hard Brexit is avoided the polling is clear, Scots will not vote for independence and the Commons has made quite clear tonight it will vote for extension and EUref2 or even revoke Brexit over No Deal and a Government would not survive unless that was delivered

    152. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      geeo @ 20:43,

      That’s cute. Having given the BritNats 4+ wasted years of full opportunity to do the right thing themselves by their indyref promises, now we are to prod them with stick-and-carrot in a re-Union offer or we walk.

      Somehow I can’t see them even taking that last-of-all-last-chances opportunity. So much so that it isn’t even worth the effort, IMO.

      Better to dump the diversions and cut to the chase now.

    153. jfngw says:

      Correct my last post, it was this morning not yesterday. It’s hard to keep track now, every day another vote, another government defeat. They are all melding into one.

    154. HYUFD says:

      Meg Merrilees See my last 2 lines above

    155. dom says:


      Why have I not been paying attention,, please enlighten me

    156. dom says:

      No Deal is ideal (for IndyRef2)

    157. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I see that in the wake of today’s catastroshambles in the HoC, Loball is back in a panic, desperately trying to maintain that the deck really isn’t sloping.

      Even though we can all feel it.

      (Gaslighting does have its limits.)

    158. Scotspatriot says:

      The little Engs will toe Mays line..and vote for her deal .
      After that, it’ll be up to how fast Scots can grow a spine !!

    159. Petra says:

      Anybody else on here find it strange that the spineless wonder Mundell abstained? His beloved boss votes against a No Deal Brexit and he abstains?! Something’s not quite right there.

    160. jfngw says:


      Such confidence, such fear. Now is your chance to spoke the SNP then, why are you so afraid to take it?

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s a truly short-sited and idiotic comment. How do you think a declining right-wing England will help Scotland? And don’t embarrass yourself by suggesting it brings independence closer.

    162. dom says:

      All the SNP see doing is throwing hand grenades right into the middle of the Westminster Brexit debacle.

      The SNP plan is to disrupt and cause as much chaos as possible. A plan that is paying dividends.

      Brilliant strategy most likely thought up by our illustrious leader Nicola.

    163. dom says:

      Cameron b

      you are allowed your opinion, and I must surely be allowed my opinion

      Democracy, remember?

    164. jfngw says:

      Anybody else got this Brexit feeling.

    165. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “All those saying what are the SNP doing” you ask @geeo says at 8:50 pm


      They are artfully getting their distain for Westminster and TMays Tory Governments handling of Brexit and the democratic deficit shown to The Sovereign People of Scotlands 62% vote to remain EU Citizens fully signed up to the benefits of The 4 Freedoms recorded in Hansard as a matter of public and historical record.

    166. CameronB Brodie says:

      Fair comment but I think you’re still a tit if you think “no deal” is in any way desirable from a Scottish perspective.

    167. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Oh, we have a Coco-substitute now, I see…

    168. Petra says:

      @ Macart says at 9:03 pm … ”Worth reading.”

      Thanks for that Macart. Well worth a read right enough.

      …”Meanwhile there are reports that certain Brexiteers in Leave.EU and Ukip are lobbying right wing governments in Italy, Poland, and Hungary in an effort to get them to use their veto against any extension of Article 50. According to reports a group of Conservatives went to Poland last week in order to lobby the far right Polish government against any extension. So much for “We want the British parliament to be sovereign.” Now we have Nigel Farage and the Brexists begging the EU for help to leave the EU. There’s a word for conspiring with foreign governments in order to damage the interests of your own country. It’s not a pretty word.”…


      @ dom says at 9:12 pm … ”Cameron b – you are allowed your opinion, and I must surely be allowed my opinion. Democracy, remember?”

      Spot on Dom.

    169. Ottomanboi says:

      If the WM English majority were to manage to agree a ‘best deal’ to put to the EU and that deal were rejected by the EU 27 what then? No Brexit? A danger signal that referendum results effectively mean zilch? Are we on a vicious loop? In a HUIS CLOS situation where hell is WM trying to find a nonexistent exit and Scotland is trapped in a state run by hellish, bickering other people?
      A GE then? In England that might mean a night of the long knives for the ‘main parties’ as the electorate gleefully collects scalps. So not at all likely.
      However, for Scotland it could well be the solution to our recurring national ‘put down’. Another reason it will never happen.
      An SNP ‘stuff you’ walk out?

    170. geeo says:


      Emm….The House of Commons making it very clear a no deal will not be tolerated ?

      While it may be a non binding vote, the speaker made it clear during points of order that there ARE ways to ensure that the view of the house (no deal) can prevail.

      The speaker cannot spell those ways out, but MP’s will know.

      Did you stop watching before that bit ?

    171. Dr Jim says:

      Straight from trolling Scotland’s FM the FUD decides to pay us a visit, things are obviously hotting up now when Theresa May just outvoted Theresa May

      There isn’t enough internet to describe these people anymore

    172. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 March, 2019 at 8:59 pm:

      ” … The SNP can whinge as much as they want,”

      So, HYUFD, what parts of, “The United Kingdom is legally a bipartite union of Kingdoms”, and, “The people of Scotland are legally Sovereign”, and, “All International Treaties can be ended by either party if the treaty’s conditions are substantially changed.” is it you fail to understand?

    173. HYUFD says:

      Once Unionists had a clear endorsement for the Union in 2014’s Scottish Independence referendum, no need for another one, especially if a hard Brexit is avoided

    174. geeo says:

      @Robert J Sutherland 9.00pm

      Yeah ….okay then champ.

      Seems you did not understand my post you referenced then.

      In that scenario, WM could NEVER agree, nor be seen to agree, the terms Scotland would present to them.

      You also seemed to ignore the context in which i put that SCENARIO.

      But hey, we know your motives from old.

    175. dom says:


      Some on here think it is their opinion and only their opinion that counts, all other opinions which differ from theirs is open to abuse and threats to that poster.

      Lighten up guys, take on board all opinions and then come back with a civilised reply.

    176. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers Scots have no interest in independence as the polling in Scotland shows if hard Brexit is avoided

    177. geeo says:

      Robert Peffers@ 9.29pm.

      So, HYUFD, what parts of, “The United Kingdom is legally a bipartite union of Kingdoms”, and, “The people of Scotland are legally Sovereign”, and, “All International Treaties can be ended by either party if the treaty’s conditions are substantially changed.” is it you fail to understand?

      Em…ALL of it, i would imagine..!

      Fuddy aint the brightest.

    178. Gary45% says:

      Mundell only thinks of Mundell+ Fluff Junior.
      Like the rest of his ilk, he has no morals when it comes to looking after the citizens who put him in his job.( The prize of the Ermine cloak and a job for like for the wean comes before anything else.)
      This whole sorry mess was caused by the Tories fearing the rise of the ultra right wing supporters of their party.UKIP. (There are other factions involved which will come to light in the future.)hedge funds, etc.
      History will show future generations, what “The Mother of All Parliaments” was really like, contempt doesn’t even come close, piss up in brewery the same.
      And the Tories would still win a GE if called tomorrow???.
      You could not make it up.

    179. Cubby says:

      Sorry to see The Britnat troll HYFUD is back. – nothing but a boring pain.

      As I pointed out previously May did not promise to implement the legal change to remove no deal if HofCommons voted for it and she seems to be sticking to that. May demonstrating the usual characteristics of Britnats – lie, deceit, break promises, untrustworthy etc etc. It’s amazing some MPs still expect her to be straight and honest with them.

      My long term forecast of no deal united Ireland and independent Scotland seems to be still going strong.

    180. yesindyref2 says:

      Can you not read? Check out the BIG TABLE Q15 and Q16:

      And here’s one for Mundell, your boss:

      There was an Old Man with a beard,
      Who said, ‘It is just as I feared!
      Two Owls and a Hen,
      Four Larks and a Wren,
      Have all built their nests in my beard!’

    181. dom says:


      No Deal is default option.

      No time for bringing into law any other deal.

      Do try to keep up.

    182. geeo says:

      Oh dear, dom, who to believe, you or the speaker of the house when it comes to parliamentaty procedures….its a toughie !!

    183. geeo says:

      Apparently, the 4 abstaining Ministers are NOT being sacked.

      So open revolt by ministers is tolerated in treeza’s Government.

      Who knew…

    184. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      geeo @ 21:32:

      But hey, we know your motives from old.

      You really can be a hyper-aggressive obnoxious little twerp. Care to elaborate rather than just slyly insinuate…?

    185. jfngw says:


      Strange your waters tell you no, mine say Yes will poll between 60% & 70% when the referendum is called.

      P.S. Polling is irrelevant, it is the mandate that counts, SNP has real mandate at Holyrood and Westminster for Scotland, they have had the referendum endorsed at Holyrood by a clear majority. We are just waiting patiently (some impatiently) for the event.

      But you’re not really here for that are you, it’s more of a trolling exercise. Probably sitting guffawing into your G & T while typing.

    186. K1 says:

      He may as well come on here and tell us that the ‘Scots can whinge as much as we want’ as it is after all the Scots who vote for the SNP…does he not see how fucking insulting he really is?

      Or does he not see that we see how insulting he really is by coming out wi this utter tosh btl here?

      Do fuck off Simon.

    187. geeo says:

      At RJS

      You think that is “hyper aggressive” ???

      Deary me!!

      Plenty know what you are. Not exactly 100% pro indy, and you often spread unionist propaganda on here.

      Accidently i’m sure…

    188. dom says:

      No Deal Brexit is the wake up call many Scots need.

      They need a shock to their system, to let them see what being part of the UK really means.

      They need to be hurting to finally bring them round to thinking that Independence is the only logical way out of this disaster.

    189. Baldeagle58 says:

      Has anyone got a link to Ian Blackfords speech that was cut by the British State Broadcaster? Parliament TV isn’t now playing it. 🙁

    190. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for the insult, but as a very capable disabled individual who understands a bit about ethical governance and stuff, Brexit scares the shit out of me. A “no deal” scenario that Scotland is unable to escape from, is something I don’t dare to even imagine. Scotland is geographical situated next to England, so can’t escape a “no deal” scenario, even through independence.

      Brexit fucks Britain but it will hurt Scotland even if we choose independence. The rational course of action is to try an minimise this impact. The SNP have satisfied this ethical requirement, IMHO. Time to move on.


      Beyond ethical individualism


      Contemporary ethical debate about clinical practice centres primarily on the individual resolution of dilemmas, an approach which is incompatible with the social constructionist focus on human interdependence. Many constructionists argue that virtue ethics (VE) offers a more useful perspective on ethics than either consequentialism or deontology.

      From this perspective, the purpose of ethics is not to specify the right act in a particular situation, but to understand ethical and unethical practices conceptually, i.e. how these are learned, and how these contribute to and develop the ethical life in an ethical environment. Criticisms of VE are considered alongside discussion of its implications for clinical practice with people who have intellectual disability.

      Brexit and the Moral Vision of Nationhood

      The Relationship between the Brexit Vote and Individual Predictors of Prejudice: Collective Narcissism, Right Wing Authoritarianism, Social Dominance Orientation

    191. Capella says:

      A historic day in the HoC. Michael Gove is a despicable piece of work. I expect he will be the next Tory leader and we can thankfully depart the Union.

      Ian Blackford repeated that Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against our will. I expect that’s why the BBC cut him off because they know he will get the message out there.

      Has May resigned yet? I can scarcely bear to look at what is going on any longer. And I don’t eat popcorn or choccy raisins.

    192. yesindyref2 says:

      OK, a quick effort

      There was an old woman from Maidenhead
      A divided incompetent party led
      To leave the EU
      They all did a poo
      Which amused that old woman from Maidenhead

    193. galamcennalath says:

      The results of 2014 and 2016 should be permanently fixed in stone?

      In a democracy, people can change their minds. Any political system which sets out to prevent people changing their minds is not a democracy!

      British/English nationalism have now become totally incompatible with democracy.

    194. yesindyref2 says:

      There was an old man from Chippenham
      Whose brain was as fuddled as eggs and spam
      When they asked for his vote
      He gave them a pound note
      That pythonesque man from Chippenham

    195. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      geeo 21:45,

      Maybe you could attend the next Wingers get-together and try saying that again to me in person, you slimy argumentative little shit.

    196. Robert Peffers says:

      @dom says: 13 March, 2019 at 9:12 pm:

      ” … Democracy, remember?”

      What democracy might that be, dom?

      There technically cannot be democracy in the United Kingdom.

      he terms, democracy and kingdom are an oxymoron. You see it is like this in kingdoms, (with only one exception0, the king or Queen is legally sovereign and that means the people are the sovereign’s subjects. It isn’t called The United Kingdom because it is a democracy.

      Now about that one exception – it is the Kingdom of Scotland where , in 1320, the law changed and the monarch became only king of Scots – not king of Scotland. He was declared to be the chosen leader of the people and the people had the right to drive him out if he failed in his duty to protect the people’s sovereignty. That instantly turned a sovereign monarchy into a real democracy.

      This is not so in the Kingdom of England and Westminster rule by the rule of law of England and English law has a legally sovereign monarch. Westminster is not a democratic government.

    197. yesindyref2 says:

      There was an old crawler called Gove
      Who put both his feet in the stove
      When they said it was out
      He went off with a pout
      That weak-willed and weird old cove

      I’ll stop now!

    198. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Baldeagle58 @ 21:46,

      As I mentioned upthread, CNN covered his speech live in its entirety, but alas I don’t know what may be on their website (yet).

    199. Bob Mack says:

      Why would the EU offer a long extension. They know Scotland may well vote for Indy and after all Scotland is the part of the Union which has unparalleled resources. They would be allowed to join rather quickly.

      What actually does the rest of the UK offer the EU?

      Answers please.

    200. robbo says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      13 March, 2019 at 9:59 pm
      geeo 21:45,


      Soz made me chuckle in this drab dreary events of today.

      Anyhow I’ve just we back to default settings, reset my mobile, home computer and house clock back to default 13-9-14

      The Indy ref is in 5 days Monday!!!!!! -don’t forget the last 5 years was a dream.!

      You can thank me later for adding near 5 years to your life

    201. Phronesis says:

      Concerned about a diagnosis of memory loss, a possible dementing illness, personality disorder, delusional illness? The presentation of all of the above is typically the behaviour of the Mother of all Parliaments this evening . ‘Mother’ would probably score zero in her MMSE – with day-to-day memory loss and forgetfulness, she can’t concentrate, plan or organise, struggles to find the right word, lacks perception and orientation in time and place . We must be kind and empathetic towards Mother- she needs to be where her care needs are most appropriately met- as far away from Scotland as possible.

      Scotland – a nation in waiting, a country that is grown up and responsible an oasis of sanity, calm dignity and talking sense compared to the incoherent ramblings of ‘Mother’.

    202. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s what I suggest when at uni, perhaps that’s what got my ticket marked? 🙂

    203. Welsh Sion says:


      Fluffy on the BBC:

      Speaking to the BBC, the Scottish Secretary David Mundell says: “The Cabinet should now act on the will of the House – that is to deliver our exit from the EU with a deal.”

      “The prime minster has my full support in that,” he adds.

      When asked if he should be sacked for not voting with the government, Mr Mundell said: “If you vote against the government, as some ministers did, you resign and accept responsibility for doing that.

      “I did not vote against the government.”


      Yep. He hasn’t resigned (yet). Quoi de neuf, pussycat ?

    204. Proud Cybernat says:

      Those votes tonight will, imo, have the Maybot laughing all the way to the rechip factory. She won a watch tonight with those HoC votes, no mistake.

      She runs down the clock a couple of more weeks and then says to parliament, “Okay – so this house voted not to leave without a deal? Well there’s a deal on the table – MY deal. Take it or leave it.”

      Who framed that motion? It should also have explicitly excluded the May ‘deal’ currently on offer. (Yes, I know HoC rejected it but that doesn’t stop the Maybot somehow tweaking it to present it again for another vote which is what she’s planning to do on 26th March).

      Oh she’s no’ as daft as we think with her political shenanigans.

      That’s where we’re headed. Her deal or we crash out. And when push comes to shove, how will HoC vote?

    205. jfngw says:

      BBC giving the impression that domestic produced products will be cheaper with no deal. Not sure what their evidence is for this, as competition from abroad will cost more. I would suspect local producers to raise prices to just below new import costs to recoup any export loses.

      Anybody that makes things is trying to get the best price and make more profit. I don’t think they will see themselves as some social service.

    206. Nana says:

      Blackford’s speech for anyone who missed it

    207. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says:13 March, 2019 at 9:31 pm:

      ” … Once Unionists had a clear endorsement for the Union in 2014’s Scottish Independence referendum, no need for another one, especially if a hard Brexit is avoided.”

      Balderdash! Political views change all the time and that includes referendums. That is why there are general elections. They give the electorate regular chances to change their minds and throw out the last government they chose and vote in another one.

      There is, of course, another point. The people of Scotland are legally sovereign. BTW: Your Tory Government acknowledged that as legal fact by not opposing the Scottish Claim of Right in the UK supreme Court. So, when a majority of the Scottish Electorate say, “Enough”! the United Kingdom ends.

      Now here is a stone cold fact for you – Westminster is legally the parliament of the United Kingdom. There is no legally elected parliament of the Kingdom of England. Thus, when Scotland ends the union the United Kingdom parliament instantly ends and there is no one elected to rule England. No one in the entire World needs to pay the slightest heed to the Kingdom of England. It will become a headless corps overnight.

    208. Liz g says:

      jfngw @ 10.20
      They might be spinning the “Tariff” announcement that’s been slipped out today…
      Which if what they are reporting is correct means different trading arrangements for N.Ireland,which is Westminister’s way of protecting the Good Friday Agreement an international TREATY….. Which is all very fine….
      BUT they forget,arranging for one part of the Union to have a trading advantage over Scotland may break that other TREATY that Westminster is signed up to….oops!

    209. dom says:

      Robert oeffer

      When I said democracy, I was reminding another poster of my right to have an opinion,,,I wasn’t talking about Westminster democracy.

      I’m afraid you are miles off what I was actually talking about.

    210. CameronB Brodie says:

      So do you still think “no deal” is good for Scotland’s best interests?

    211. Out SNP leafletting in Stirling tonight about what Brexit really means. Got thumbs up through the window from some of the recipients.

      Crazy scenario at WM. Nicola has said she may even set out her intention to use the Indy ref mandate within the next few days….

      T May supposedly bringing back her deal for a third time next week.
      Fluffy voting against the Government then flatly stating that he hasn’t so he won’t be resigning – will T May boot him out?

      What is going through (t)Ruthless’ head just now?
      Have to admit it has been a pleasant experience to listen to FMQ’s without her.

    212. Elmac says:

      What a farce. A government who try to vote down their own motion in the HOC and fail. Led by an inveterate liar who pretends that her repeated humiliations have changed nothing.

      Over the last few years TM has indulged in an escalating abuse of power involving bribery (DUP bung, honours system etc.) and the use of the carrot and stick to whip her own MPs into line to protect her position and further her goals. Her incompetence, which first became apparent during her term as Home Secretary, is legendary as is her deference to the monied elite who pull her strings. There is a glaring conflict of interest between her role as PM and her husband’s business interests which should have precluded her from high office. As was once said about another prominent tory there is something of the night about her. Witness her demeanour on the government benches when Corbyn, Blackford or other opponents are speaking. She exudes malevolence as she gives them the evil eye and, before she could even possibly consider what is being said, her head begins its robotic side to side movement entirely reminiscent of the nodding dogs which festooned the rear windows of cars a few years ago.

      The days of TM as PM are numbered but the damage she has done will endure for many decades. Her government bears responsibility for the impoverishment and misery of a huge number of our fellow citizens and the untimely deaths of many more. Regrettably she will never face a court of law in this life but, as a vicar’s daughter, she should know enough to fear judgement in the next.

    213. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Proud Cybernat @ 22:13,

      Aye, that’s clearly the Maybot strategy. Wear everyone down by endlessly repeating her friendless vote in the hope that MPs give in just to stop their brains melting. Problem is, the ardent Brexists know that by stalling every vote, UK plunges out with no-deal. Which is exactly what they want.

      By majority voting back when to approve the triggering of Art.50, Labour shilly-shallying and all, the HoC put a metaphorical gun in the hand of the mad Leavers. And ultimately the only way to disarm them is a majority vote for a PV or a majority vote to withdraw the request to leave.

      If there isn’t a majority for either, which is all too possible, the lunatics are steering and the road has finally run out.

      Though judging by the increasingly blunt statements from Ian Blackford et al, the SNP have an alternative plan and also the necessary intent to use it.

    214. yesindyref2 says:

      There is a house in Westminster
      They call the flailing pun
      And its been the ruins of many a country
      And god I know we’re one

    215. jfngw says:

      @Liz G

      Sorry I was really referring to items with tariffs, not clear in my post. The zero rate offer will in fact hurt local producers if they are currently in competition.

    216. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 March, 2019 at 9:33 pm:

      … Robert Peffers Scots have no interest in independence as the polling in Scotland shows if hard Brexit is avoided.”

      What polling would that be, HYUFD? The Scottish Government have a mandate and not from an opinion poll either. Not only that but the Scottish Parliament confirmed it with a cross-party vote.

      However, neither of these carries more weight that the legal facts that the Scottish Claim of Right was affirmed by the United Kingdom, not the Kingdom of England, government when they acknowledged the Scottish Claim of Right by not contesting it.

      Do you actually know what the Scottish Claim of Right is, HYFUD? Furthermore, do you understand that Scottish Law is independent from English Law and there is no such law as United Kingdom Law?

      I’ll spell it out for you. The Scottish Government has a clear mandate from the legally sovereign people of Scotland and Westminster has consistently broken the terms of the bipartite Treaty of Union.

      Now within the past week one of Theresa May’s Cabinet declared in the House of Commons, (thus it is recorded in Hansard), that in an international treaty either party can end the treaty if there is a substantial change in the terms of the treaty. The Treaty of Union that begat the United Kingdom is an International Treaty.

      Now the idiot was talking about the EU treaty between the EU and the UK and he was so bloody stupid as not to realise what he was saying. Now if that information doesn’t frighten a Unionist like yourself then you are at least as stupid.

      Got it now? The EU/UK Treaty is no less an international Treaty than the Treaty of Union and if it is good enough for the UK it is good enough for the Kingdom of Scotland.

      Now here is another wee fact for you to consider – The Scottish MPs at Westminster, The Scottish Government First Minister and many MSPs at Holyrood and MEPs at Brussels have said in recent weeks, “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against the will of the People of Scotland”. Not if, not maybe not with anyone else’s permission. They categorically state, “WILL NOT BE DRAGED OUT”, and we do not need anyone from a foreign kingdom’s permission to do so. As admitted by a UK cabinet minister within the past few days.

      Are you worried now, HYFUD? What you going to do about it – send in the(cough!), British Army?

      As Robert Burns said, “It’s coming yet fir aa that”.

    217. manandboy says:

      A selection of choice comments from the G.

      * “I honestly can’t comprehend how we’ve ended up with such a diabolical shambles as this government and the opposition.”

      * “It’s been more than 2 years of total timewasting and self inflicted harm for absolutely no benefit and there seems to be no end to the insanity.”

      * “What’s deeply saddening is that the split between remain and leave is still remarkably close despite all the evidence that leaving is an utterly insane choice.”

      * ” “It … sends a message … to the whole world,” croaked Theresa May to the Commons on Tuesday night, “about the sort of country … the United Kingdom will be … in the years and decades ahead.”

      Heard loud and clear around the world :

      A backward looking, fearful of the world country led by an abject set of Parliamentarians .

      A country that will self immolate rather than be pragmatic , a country wth a Constitution that prevents a rudderless and incompetent cling onto power.

      It sends the message loud and clear , we are UTTERLY DELUDED , we will look inwards , we hate foreigners and expect the World to fall to our feet with trade deals that are one sided and only in our favour.

      We ARE a laughing stock. Worldwide.”

      * ” The situation is, for want of a better expression – f***ing embarrassing.”

      * ” Another sharp, erudite, witty and hilarious essay from Marina Hyde. While we Danes watch British politicians in disbelief and must lay ear to horrible animosities against Britain’s neighbors, we cling to those here at the Guardian, who still represent the Britain we loved so much until a can of worms was opened.”

      * ” When I moved from Italy to the UK some 12 yrs ago, I was so glad to leave a politically messed up country for a serious one. Now I am incredulous every day.”

      * ” Why are all the media, including Emily Maitlis last night on Newsnight, so amazed at how this faecal tornado is playing out. It’s amazing to me that May is being presented as some sort of tragic victim heroine in all this at the mercy of a parliament of toddlers. This is the situation she deliberately engineered. She came back with basically the same deal as last time, and ‘Shock!, Horror!’ it was rejected again”

      * “However bad you might think being governed by Brussels would be, being governed by the Tories is infinitely worse!”

      * “However dreadful they are (this Tory Govt) (and they truly are), I’ll always take being governed by people who were voted for over people who weren’t.

      * ” Actually, the British government is appointed by the Queen. You never voted for Theresa May as prime minister, even if you happen to live in her constituency. The government gets its democratic legitimacy through the British parliament’s vote of confidence, just as the EU commission has the confidence of the European parliament. The EU is actually more democratic than Britain, having PR elections. In Britain, an awful lot of votes (such as those for the Greens) are disregarded because of First past the Post.”

    218. geeo says:

      Well said Robert, and looking less likely to be via a referendum to me by the minute.

      Dissolving the Treaty of Union to protect the interests of Scotland looks like the probable route, assuming treeza tries to over reach herself, with a refusal to sanction a S.30.

      Do people really think the Scotsgov will just say “aw shucks…dammit, we give up” because treeza said no to a S.30 ?

      Nicola has to ask, and in fact, her (treeza) saying, “yes, ok, no problem, her ye go have a S.30 referendum”, arguably makes our cause more difficult.

      Refusal means Nicola and Scotsgov can quote back all and every occassion that we have bent over backwards to solve the constitutional issue, right up until we had no more options.

      They will only have themselves to blame.

      This final scenario has not happened by accident, where we are and look like going, is the result of years of preparation, mostly while our politicians have helped distract them at WM, shit stirring over ukexit.

      People keep asking “what are the SNP doing”?

      That question will be answered very soon, and i believe it will be a humdinger.

    219. Heart of Galloway says:

      The Nine debate tonight, right now.

      Jeanne Freeman very strong, Geordie bloke in audience pro independence, Aamer Anwar first class, Neil Findlay a sad sideshow, Tory Jamie Green getting pelters, Alex-Cole Hamilton a BritNat joke.

      Any applause going is pro-Scotland, second question of the evening is on how can Scottish economy prosper without freedom of movement.

      “The only way to ensure the Scottish economy can prosperwith freedom of movement is by Scotland getting out of the European Union,” says an audience member to loud applause.

      At last – a true reflection of what Scotland thinks! Now talking is a lassie from Poland whe feels Scottish and wants to stay here. Why the feck is this stuff NEVER aired mainstream and at peak time? Oh wait..

    220. Elmac says:

      Re yesindyref2 @ 9.36

      Couldn’t resist:

      A scrawny old biddy called May
      Insisted on having her way
      She went to and fro
      Like a demented yoyo
      But got her comeuppance today

    221. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 13 March, 2019 at 9:59 pm:

      ” … Maybe you could attend the next Wingers get-together and try saying that again to me in person, you slimy argumentative little shit.”

      Oh! Dear! that, Robert is a direct threat of physical violence. BTW: There is a very old truth – it goes like this, “it takes at least two to make an argument”. In my book you have, not the first time today, stepped over the line of decency.

      Seems you like to dish it out but cannot stand it being dished back. So there you go – both verbal abuse and threats of violence.

    222. HYUFD says:

      JFNGW On current polls there may well be a Unionist majority in the next Holyrood elections and no chance of indyref2 after that point if that is the result and only 2 years to go until those elections

    223. geeo says:

      RJS @9.59

      You said this:

      “Maybe you could attend the next Wingers get-together and try saying that again to me in person, you slimy argumentative little shit”

      Not long after saying this:

      “You really can be a hyper-aggressive obnoxious little twerp. Care to elaborate rather than just slyly insinuate…”?

      Triggered by me saying this:

      “But hey, we know your motives from old”.

      Clearly irony ain’t your strong point.

      Pray tell what scenario do you imagine would happen if i told you what you think i said, to your face ?

      Now you are just confirming what you are.

      Are you aware of this blog’s rules about threats of violence, implied or stated ?

      Shall we ask the man in charge ?

    224. HYUFD says:

      Capella Gove is a Scot

    225. yesindyref2 says:

      @Bob Mack “What actually does the rest of the UK offer the EU?


      It’s an industry potentially worth billions.

    226. HYUFD says:

      Bob Mack The largest financial centre in Europe, one of the top two European militaries alongside France, the best universities in Europe etc and of course Spain is concerned still about allowing an independent Scotland into the EU setting a precedent for allowing an independent Catalonia into the EU

    227. Petra says:

      @ Gary45% says at 9:35 pm …. ”Petra – Mundell only thinks of Mundell + Fluff Junior. Like the rest of his ilk, he has no morals when it comes to looking after the citizens who put him in his job. (The prize of the Ermine cloak and a job for like for the wean comes before anything else.)”….

      Do you know what Gary, I doubt he’ll ever don an ermine cloak because I reckon that T May, the Tories, Queenie and the parasites that frequent the House of Lords old folks home can’t stick him either. Along with probably 99% of the population of Scotland.


      Mundell was interviewed on Scotland Tonight. Oh right he’s not resigning. Surprise, surprise. He doesn’t support a No Deal Brexit. He just chose not to vote against it??? FGS get me out of here. I actually got the impression, seriously, that he’s totally confused with it all now, lol. Everyone (other than one Tory) being questioned on ST tonight said that Big T should sack him, however she’s not in a position to sack anyone now. What a bl**dy mess.

      Peston also saying that normally politicians like Mundell, breaching such a convention, would have resigned before they had been sacked.

      Anyway forget about them. Mundell has stated often that a No Deal Brexit would be catastrophic for Scotland and yet he put our country, US, in the position of being subjected to just that. And yeah I know it can happen still, but it’s the principle that counts and he should just p*ss right off now. He’s no friend of any Scot no matter their political colours.


      Treeza’s latest threat is that if they don’t vote for her deal … AGAIN … next week they are facing a very long extension period.


      Time for a bit of a laugh. Looks as though we’re all in dire need of it.

      Janey Godley …. ‘Theresa Wants My Netflix Sign In.’

    228. CameronB Brodie says:

      Heart of Galloway

      “The only way to ensure the Scottish economy can prosperwith freedom of movement is by Scotland getting out of the European Union,” says an audience member to loud applause.

      At last – a true reflection of what Scotland thinks! Now talking is a lassie from Poland whe feels Scottish and wants to stay here. Why the feck is this stuff NEVER aired mainstream and at peak time? Oh wait..

      Firstly , “The only way…” comment doesn’t make logical sense. Are you sure that was the way they said what they said?

      Secondly, it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest an irrational comment reflects what the people of Scotland want.

      I’m not doubting your sincerity, just wondering if you’ve had a couple? 😉

    229. yesindyref2 says:


      You gotta laugh.

    230. Confused says:

      – here is a link, a nice long read about the power of money, and the contempt of the super rich and the lack of protection offered via democracy or legal systems; argentina is not a banana republic, which makes it all worse

      makes me glad Scotland has so much rain, also makes me glad for the midge as it keeps away the wrong types – but even so, 400 people own all we have, and they are not of us. We have already been “patagonia-ed”.

      joe lewis had an interest in sevco-rangers at one point; would consider himself a unionist, I reckon – but he made his first money on black wednesday as he and soros r4ped the GBP – which shows the loyalty of the forex speculator – england without scottish resources will get nailed, which means when it comes down to the post independence negotiations, the use of GBP (for at least a short time) might be ALL the leverage we need to get everything we want.

    231. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers Scots voted to stay in the Union in 2014, if Scots ever decided to leave Westminster would become the Parliament of England and Wales (plus probably still Northern Ireland) as it was until Scotland joined the Union in 1707, what an absurd point

    232. Effijy says:

      This Troll Crap about Scotland Voted to stay abused and ignored
      in 2014.

      It was corrupt like nothing else previously has been corrupted.

      Dark money coming in from the Middle East to the DUP Terrorist Party and into Scotland.

      BBC, Daily Redcoat Vow and Daily Hail among all 37 UK newspapers working for the rich by corruption Scotland’s true prospects.

      The Purda was broken illegally but nothing was done about it.

      The £3 Billion Investment in Scotland’s wind and wave technology, 13 major ships for the Clyde- broken, 3,000 HMRC jobs in Scotland to be secured- Broken, £1 Billion Carbon Capture investment for Peterhead-Broken, extensive new powers for Holyrood to become the most powerful devolved parliament
      I the world- so secure Westminster an strip it of any devolved powers it likes for as long as it likes?

      How about lying Carmichael wasting £1 Billion of Public Money to slander our First Minister-Off Scot Free.

      How about wee Ruth opening postal votes before the count?

      Indy Ref 1 result is null and void.
      Useful only to show the depths Westminster Corruption factory will go to ensure Scotland’s wealth is pocketed by London.

      For pity sake they had out medals for people who came in 4th at sports vents 16 years as another athlete was proven to cheat.

      Is that to be a more serious crime than suppressing an entire Nation? Is it hell.

    233. yesindyref2 says:

      I think it was a typo, either NOT being missing, or meaning the Union not the Eurpoean one.

      Next on the list for “we know your motives”, in no particular order:

      1. Angus Robertson
      2. Craig Murray
      3. Alec Salmond
      4. Rev
      5. Ian Blackford
      6. Blair Jenkins
      7. Nicola Sturgeon
      8. A.N. Other

      Don’t rise to the bait, it’s the same as in the MSM forums, they’re trying to discredit.

    234. CameronB Brodie says:

      geeo, Robert is on our side. I’ve met him and he is a gentle soul. Just saying. 😉

      Robert J. Sutherland, argumentative discourse and stuff is an academic disciple that teaches best practice in letting rip. Just saying. 😉


      We’ve got a job to do guys and time is running out. Eyes on the prize please.

    235. HYUFD says:

      Confused England without Scotland would still be the 7th largest economy in the world

    236. Petra says:

      Ha, ha, ha. Mundell’s big hairy phizog is on the front page of tomorrows Telegraph. He’ll not be happy about that.

    237. CameronB Brodie says:

      I just thought I’d be helpful and provide a plausible excuse. I can’t help it, I’ve been conditioned to look at the world through ethically tinted specks (when my brain was still re-shaping itself after experiencing a sudden collision with the inside of my skull, which is kind of spiky). I think I’ve been programmed like Joe90, it’s now part of my nature. 🙂

    238. Robert Peffers says:

      @ dom says: 13 March, 2019 at 10:35 pm;

      ” … When I said democracy, I was reminding another poster of my right to have an opinion,,,I wasn’t talking about Westminster democracy.”

      Yeah! Dom, I’m well aware what you were trying to do.

      Thing is it is you that is well off – not me but it seems you missed the point.

      Democracy has nothing to do with what you were trying to say. Democracy is defined as, “Government of the people, by the people, for the people”. It is not the right of Free Speech.

      The right of free speech is defined as, “Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions, and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by a public authority and regardless of frontiers.”

      What is more important, though, is what the right of free speech is not – it is not the right to say what you like where and when you like. For example it is not the right to sing sectarian songs wherever you like or to shout fire in a crowded auditorium.

      Does that explain for you why you got a reply about democracy?

    239. dom says:

      Robert pefer

      Geez peace

    240. Heart of Galloway says:


      FFS, that should have read getting out of the UK!!!

      Thanks pal.

    241. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 23:39,

      I bow to your good advice. I merely wondered why we never encounter at actual gatherings certain ever-eager online accusers of treasonable motives in reaction to any observably fair comment they happen not to like.

    242. CameronB Brodie says:

      Heart of Galloway 😉

    243. dom says:

      That Peston show is so fuckin English.

      English politicians, English journalists’, English points of view, English newspapers, English opinions.

      Scotland, Wales , N Ireland, get back in yer box.

    244. Liz g says:

      Robert j & geeo
      The only argument you two will be having at the next Wing’s night out is who gets to buy me a drink first 🙂
      You’ll have that Ronnie Anderson thinkin we can’t behave without him 🙂
      Seriously thought.. Pack it in you guy’s,like CBB says..
      Eyes on the Prize..Aye…

    245. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS “I bow to your good advice

      Wish I always followed it myself.

      I do not too bad in the MSM forums where, for instance, one wants to stuff me and mount me on his mantelpiece, another strangely similar in some ways tells me to use google when his (its) claims are about as fact-free as you can get. It ain’t easy to keep the heid.

    246. Capella says:

      It certainly looks like there is a GE campaign in full flow.

      Facebook, I hear, is sending people adverts about how well the UK government is “Delivering for Scotland”. They pay for all sorts of things like lighthouses and nuclear weapons.

      This disinformation seems to be sent out by David Mundell’s department for ripping off Scotland. We raise £60b in revenues (that includes oil) but spend £73b in public services.

      How are tax revenues distributed in Scotland?
      Tax revenue generated in Scotland amounts to £60 billion, including oil revenue, but benefits from £73 billion in public spending. That means we get out £13 billion more than we put in.

      This system of sharing our resources means we are well-placed to tackle the problems of the future together, such as an ageing society, but gives the Scottish Parliament the freedom to make many financial decisions for itself.

      If Stu is at a loose end on a quiet news day he could maybe take apart the nonsense on the “Delivering for Scotland” site. It looks like one of the Integrity Initiative ploys; targetting Facebook users according to their profile. I don’t do Facebook but I know others who do and are receiving these messages.

      I clicked on one of their links but got the PAGE NOT FOUND message.

    247. Dr Jim says:

      That new debate programme must be biased, it’s full of Independence supporters He He He what a change from the Big British nationalist programme and you know what it shows, it shows that whoever does these polls about Independence must be trying really hard to avoid asking folk who actually want it and are finding it harder and harder to get a hold of enough British nationalists to be on their go to lists of people to poll

      It certainly does not look at all is though there’s any doubt over Independence now Scotland just woke up , it was wee bit slow for some of us but welcome nevertheless and assures us of not just hpoe for Independence anymore but an absolute and total ***Stick on***

      BTW My two 16year old granddaughters are old enough now and guess what they’re voting….Ya little beauties, oh eh, and their teachers….we had a meeting

    248. Jeff says:

      English Attorney General quoting EU treaty etc…..SO…..Who is gonna declare the Act of Union null an void? Over to you Mr. Peffers…..can we do it or not? (In one sentence please)….we need out! Help us please!!! It’s time!!!How does it work?

    249. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 March, 2019 at 11:31 pm:

      ” … and of course Spain is concerned still about allowing an independent Scotland into the EU setting a precedent for allowing an independent Catalonia into the EU””

      I’ve wasted enough time on you for one thread, HYFUD, so I’ll keep this brief and stick to rubbishing just one of your lies. Spain has categorically stated that it will not veto Scotland from EU membership. The Spanish prime Minister no less. So here’s the challenge to you quote your sources as to where Spain has done otherwise. BTW: The Spanish PM stated that Scotland’s case and Catalonia were very different cases.

      Now give your references or be branded a liar. Oh! And don’t bother quoting José Manuel Durão Barroso. For starters he is a Portuguese politician and could not speak for Spain but the MSM quoted him as if he could.

    250. mike cassidy says:

      Scotland’s Brexit problem sorted!

    251. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 13 March, 2019 at 11:35 pm:


    252. Jeff says:

      Robert, I need a cuddle…can we legally dissolve the Act of Onion….via legal? I feel we are sooo close….

    253. Dr Jim says:

      Michael Gove used to be Scottish but he was radicalised when he joined the Tory terror group

      Mundell is almost at the limits of his abilities to produce belly slime, he can barely wriggle under stones now

    254. yesindyref2 says:

      If you think we’re misrepresented by stats like that, look at this for Wales, from GERW produced by Cardiff Uni:

      GERNI was stopped some years ago, and guess what? There never has been a GERE.

      I’d say if there was it too would show a deficit, probably a large one, for the sake of argument £100 billion for England. Add up the 4 what do you get? £140 billion. What’s the deficit of the UK? £40 billion.

      Oh wait, where did that extra £100 billion deficit come from …

      Sadly it’s not really an argument we can make with numbers, all we can say is “There is no GERE for England as it has no devolved parliament and no devolved government, therefore the figures can not be properly compared to the UK overall deficit”.

    255. Jeff says:

      I think we need a big drinkers for Indy group?

    256. Petra says:

      @ Elmac at 10:47pm …….

      Great post Elmac and in reality I’ve noticed something really malevolent looking about her too, which has become more pronounced recently. I’m interested in astrology and her natal chart looks pretty sinister, to say the least. Damaged goods from childhood.

      …”As was once said about another prominent tory there is something of the night about her. Witness her demeanour on the government benches when Corbyn, Blackford or other opponents are speaking. She exudes malevolence as she gives them the evil eye and, before she could even possibly consider what is being said, her head begins its robotic side to side movement entirely reminiscent of the nodding dogs which festooned the rear windows of cars a few years ago.”….


      @ Heart of Galloway says at 11:18 pm …”The Nine debate tonight, right now. Jeanne Freeman very strong, Geordie bloke in audience pro independence, Aamer Anwar first class, Neil Findlay a sad sideshow, Tory Jamie Green getting pelters, Alex-Cole Hamilton a BritNat joke. Any applause going is pro-Scotland, second question of the evening is on how can Scottish economy prosper without freedom of movement. “The only way to ensure the Scottish economy can prosper with freedom of movement is by Scotland getting out of the European Union,” says an audience member to loud applause. At last – a true reflection of what Scotland thinks! Now talking is a lassie from Poland who feels Scottish and wants to stay here. Why the feck is this stuff NEVER aired mainstream and at peak time? Oh wait..”


      Thanks for an update on the BBC 9 programme, Heart of Galloway. You said, ”The only way to ensure the Scottish economy can prosper with freedom of movement is by Scotland getting out of the European Union,” says an audience member to loud applause.” Did you mean the European Union or the Union, Heart of Galloway?

      Anyway besides that it sounds as though they are bucking themselves up now and you’re not the first I’ve heard singing their praises. I reckon I’ll start watching it now to give them some encouragement, lol. I wonder if their debate programme is on youtube? (I’ll check it out tomorrow). If so we could start posting it on here.


    257. cynicalHighlander says:

      14 March, 2019 at 12:05 am

      That link is full of mind bogling garbage.

    258. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, using the word “notional” for devolved countries, and of course “actual” for the UK as a whole, the only real deficit that exists.

    259. Dr Jim says:

      Neil Findlay on the Debate squirmed around all over the place because he hasn’t a clue what Labout policy on anything is so just drifted around in the stratosphere giving long winded answers to questions nobody asked

      He did try to look earnest though as he talked about, well, nothing

    260. mike cassidy says:

      Not sure if this has been posted before in some form

      But if this doesn’t convince people we should just tell Westminster to feck off

      Then we are well and truly …

      Spread this around!

    261. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jeff says: 14 March, 2019 at 12:07 am:

      ” … Over to you Mr. Peffers…..can we do it or not?”

      YES! Scots law says the people are legally sovereign. A majority of the legally sovereign people give the SG a definite mandate to end the union. Job Done.

      At Present the SG only has a mandate for another indy referendum. So unless the SG does it via the international courts it has to be by either a referendum or by a manifesto promise made before a general election.

    262. Petra says:

      @ Heart of Galloway says at 11:52 pm …. ”Cameron – FFS, that should have read getting out of the UK!!! Thanks pal.”

      Ooops see it’s been corrected prior to me posting.

    263. CameronB Brodie says:



      The question of the continuing significance of the Treaty of Waitangi is one to which neither legal practice nor scholarship has offered a definitive answer. The question is often regarded as less legal than political? a question of intercultural justice to be contested in the political realm.

      From within the law, however, the suggestion that the Treaty ought to be reassessed in light of modern circumstances was revived in 2005 when Jeremy Waldron, then University Professor at Columbia University, of ered the international law doctrine of rebus sic stantibus as a possible tool for analysis.

      This article responds to Professor Waldron’s suggestion that the Treaty might be considered overridden by a fundamental change in political circumstances. It first argues that the structuring logic which Professor Waldron advocates is a misreading of the “signpost” which international law offers towards the role of treaties in problems of intercultural justice.

      The article then presents a comparative assessment of United States practice relating to treaties, before examining tikanga M?ori to consider how its core values might offer guidance on the continuing relevance of the Treaty. Finally, the article looks to contributions from political philosophy relating to the political morality of Treaty ­based intercultural justice.

      Termination of Treaties in International Law: The Doctrines of Rebus sic Stantibus and Desuetude. By Vamvoukos Athanassios, Legal Adviser in the Ministry of Research and Technology, Greece.

      Revolutions and Treaty Termination

    264. yesindyref2 says:

      On that subject, there’s an accounting standard for GERS and national accounts, can’t remember the name and can’t be bothered looking it up. There was a 1995 standard, replaced by a 2010 standard live from 2014 from which the UK got a derogation of a few years, then of course we’re getting Brexit. You can bet there’ll be a 2029 standard or something like that, even tighter.

      The EU wants better “regional” accounting. Does the UK for its “regions”? Does it hell.

    265. Dr Jim says:

      *Notional*, not existing in reality, a suggestion or theory as opposed to identification of structures or processes, not practical, conceptual, abstract

      In other words a big fat guess and as fat or thin as you like depending on the guesser

    266. Robert Peffers says:

      Jeff says: 14 March, 2019 at 12:19 am:

      ” … Robert, I need a cuddle…can we legally dissolve the Act of Onion….via legal? I feel we are sooo close….”

      Yes we can … but – court cases can drag out for a very long time. However, Nicola and many Scots MPs and MSPs are, like the FM trained lawyers and Joanna Cherry is a Queen’s Council.

      Who know what else they have up their sleeves, (besides their elbows). Note that they are all saying, “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against her will”. It isn’t maybe it won’t.

    267. Petra says:

      @ Capella says at 12:05am ….. ”It certainly looks like there is a GE campaign in full flow. Facebook, I hear, is sending people adverts about how well the UK government is “Delivering for Scotland”. They pay for all sorts of things like lighthouses and nuclear weapons. This disinformation seems to be sent out by David Mundell’s department for ripping off Scotland. We raise £60b in revenues (that includes oil) but spend £73b in public services.”…

      It would be great if Stu (plus others) would take a look at that site Capella to see what’s actually going on there.

    268. Jeff says:

      Robert Peffers – Interesting times ahead shortly – I hope! I feel we are soo close…. It’s pretty depressing doon here in Mundell Land though – we never voted for him!…. Good King Robert will be spinning in his grave!!!

    269. Jeff says:

      FAO Robert Peffers…Robert – you’re an old softie really, eh? Some of us run a bit scared of ye ye ken? 😀 xxx

    270. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s a suggestion as to why the Prime-minister might creep you out. The only thing I’m not sure about is whether she is a committed racist or an ‘accidental’ racist. I tend towards the former, as I’m pretty sure she’s a sociopath.

      The politics of nationalism and white racism in the UK


      This paper considers the contemporary significance of white racism and its association with nationalist sentiment amongst a cohort late middle aged white Britons, using survey responses and qualitative interviews from the 1958 National Child Development Study.

      We have shown that although overt racism is very limited, a substantial minority of white Britons display ambivalent feelings which have the potential to be mobilised in racist directions. We argue against the view that disadvantaged white working class respondents are especially xenophobic, and show that racist views are not strongly associated with social position.

      In exploring the clustering of different nationalist and racist sentiments amongst economic and cultural elites, and comparing these with ‘disenfranchised’ respondents with little economic and cultural capital, we show that it is actually the elite who are most likely to articulate ‘imperial racism’. By contrast, the ‘disenfranchised’ articulate a kind of anti?establishment nationalism which is not strongly racist.

      We also show that the elite are strongly internally divided, with a substantial number of the cultural elite being strongly anti?racist and committed to multi?culturalism, so generating strong internal factionalism between elite positions. Our paper therefore underscores how intensifying inequalities have facilitated the volatility and variability of nationalist and racist sentiment.

    271. yesindyref2 says:

      ESA95 and ESA10
      I’m getting rusty at finding this stuff in a hurry 🙁

      It was an earlier discussion about national and regional and even local accounting, even though ESA10 doesn’t really address that need. But this is something about the future direction, note this: “national, regional and local audit institutions“. Longer-term unfortunately, not short term and anyway the UK is Brexiting.

      Best I can do, I should be working :o(

    272. Capella says:

      It might stretch Stu’s resources but since they are using social media to spread their garbage (being more easily targetted than newspapers) then a debunking exercise would be good.

      Trouble is that nobody who posts on WoS would receive these ads. They will be sent to waverers. Cambridge Analytica used sophisticated software to profile Facebook users then send them ads specific to their fears.

      But debunking the source would be a start. Mundell might have to fall on his sword soon anyway.

      BTW Michael Gove is a nasty piece of work and I don’t care what nationality he claims.

      Watching the Tory front bench, I sometimes think David Icke maybe has a point. These really are lizards from outer space struggling to operate their humanoid camouflage. And failing.

    273. Jeff says:

      I left 3 out of date Nationals in the local Wetherspoons one day last week and people were picking them up and reading them……..let’s get on the case?

    274. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers The leader of the largest group of Spanish MEPs has stated Scotland would have to get to the back of the queue in terms of EU membership. “If once the UK leaves, and Scotland decides to leave the UK, then you can join the queue after Montenegro, Serbia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Turkey to join the EU.
      “The rules are the rules – we can’t change the rules.”

    275. yesindyref2 says:

      Yeah, for the political or economics geek worth accessing the paper from that link, I quickly found this which supports Richard Murphy’s blog comment that GERS should have “accruals accounting” NOT “cost accounting”. The EU wants to move to accruals accounting (where the money is spent and generates revenues kind of thing).

      However, in the majority of EU member states public sector accounting is some way between cash accounting and accruals accounting

      The UK don’t like that one, not at all, not so we all know what the actual finances are of its “regions”. Another reason for it to exit the EU pronto. Keep us all amongst the mushrooms gathering fungi.

      Mmm, maybe I’ll have a cuppa before doing just a little real work …

    276. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland is already a member of the EU, all be it lacking national sovereignty. Your argument is pish. Off you pop lad.

    277. Jeff says:

      Dearie, dearie, dearie…HYFUD chooses to ignore the rules yet again. Tiresome.

    278. Jeff says:

      CameronB Brodie…Kirks know best as ye ken…

    279. yesbot says:

      Petra says:
      14 March, 2019 at 12:31 am
      Hello Petra
      Caught up with you at last!
      Still hoping to receive a response in defense of your vehement outburst. @ 9 March, 2019 at 2:02 am
      Your assertions are completely off the mark. Contrary in fact. Damaging and distorting.
      Please explain how the post you replied to, could possibly have been construed to justify your extremely odious and hectoring response?
      Who is SCOTBUT?

    280. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, pound’s up to 1.33 USD because of the “no” to no-deal Brexit. Was 1.31 before. I might delay my order a day or two …

    281. Jeff says:

      Scotland will flourish….

    282. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think we might all have a bit of a rose tinted memory of who captain Kirk was. Sorry, but the reality is a bit more culturally bound, a character of the future who was still very much a man of his time. The actor is a god but he still wore a girdle and his character was a bit of a sexist. A bit? Still iconic as an egalitarian though after all those years. 🙂

    283. Capella says:

      @ yesindyref2 – it would be a full time job digging out all the many devious ways the Westminster gov manipulates the truth. Richard Murphy makes a great contribution, with his description of the C.R.A.P. GERS methods. Stu has numerous articles on the subject too. But keeping track is hard.

      I was reading a Douglas Fraser article on the BBC website about how investment in renewables is going to Belgian, Spanish and UAE companies and Scottish ones, like BiFarb, get the scraps that are left.

      Offshore wind turbines are built in North East England, partly because grid connection is cheaper. (UK pours money into North Lincolnshire to make it the renewables capital.)

      The unions are furious, of course, because companies like BiFarb are mothballing plant for lack of orders, but do they know the full picture? Does Douglas Fraser?

      Still, Delivering for Scotland.

    284. Jeff says:

      CameronB Brodie: How very dare you!? I am not a Vulcan nor a Kleenex Klingon but a pure Scottish KIRK!! lol

    285. Jeff says:

      Would you not blub if Shatner appeared in the next or subsequent prequel? You know you love him? (All Kirks are irresistible) nya nya nya…

    286. CameronB Brodie says:

      I didn’t twig to your plural and thought it was a typo, sorry bud.

    287. Capella says:

      Link to Douglas Fraser. Offshore Wind offshored.

    288. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh HIFUD, you really disappoint me. Your only scare it to quote one single MEP who leads Spain’s biggest MEPs group, but is part of the Christian Democrats, the European People’s Party – the EPP as it’s known for short – the biggest group in the EU Parliament – with about 216 MEPs out of 750 even including the UK – a centre-right group – whose leader OVERALL is Manfred Weber – who said:

      On the Scottish level: to go the other way, it is up to them. Europe is open to new member states, that is totally clear. Those who want to stay are welcome in the European Union.

      Scotland, N Ireland can stay in EU says Merkel ally“.

      And then there’s this:

      50 MPs, MEPs support fast-track EU membership for independent Scotland

      Is that all you got?

    289. geeo says:


      I never said RJS wasn’t on our side.

      I said i thought he had questionable motives at times.

      He has previously posted stuff which could be seen as undermining the FM and the indy cause.

      Today i felt he misrepresented one of my posts, and that elicited a response.

      I shall endeavor to ignore him from now on, and if you vouch for him, thats good enough for me.

      Tell him the hard man act does not impress me much though, what is he, five ?

    290. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sound. I was trying not to be judgemental simply trying to keep the two of you at arms-length. 😉

    291. Capella says:

      Ha ha – I really must get offline but just read this BBC article about Outlander. It’s about Jamie Fraser, a Highland POACHER!

      Well, that’s one way of describing the Jacobites I suppose. How typical of the BBC to get every important detail so precisely wrong.

      Outlander author gets award for boost to Scottish tourism –

    292. yesindyref2 says:

      Not quite up to date summary on EU institutions and parties here for those who haven”t seen it:

      David Martin MEP (Labour) by the way is on the side of Scotland being in the EU, member of the S&D – 189 MEPs, and the Verts/ALE even held their conference in Glasgow to show support after our 62% REMAIN vote – 51 MEPs. It would be likely I think that ALDE would support overall – 68 so if all those MEPs supported an attempt by Scotland to STAY in the EU, that makes a total of

      216 + 189 + 51 + 68 = 525 out of 750, minus perhaps a few rUK MEPs and dissenters but plus some from the other parties who I have no idea about. Say 500 out of 750 and it often works by concensus. I don’t wish to be presumptious all the same. But the SNP have been busy busy bees in strasbourg, much to the disgust of Unionists.

      The future is bright, the future is – EU.

    293. Jeff says:

      Will Shatner ever return? He could be at Princes Street on Independence Day? With Andy Murray, Grieg Lamont and lots of others we love…I propose a playlist of Corries, Karine Polwart and Lau, (song “Lord Yester”/ King James IV)…but am pished again … 🙂 (Like I was last summer)

    294. Capella says:

      One last post! Michel Barnier puts his foot down and glares sternly.

      Via Euronews: Euronews exclusive: ‘Negotiations are over,’ says Michel Barnier on Brexit deal

    295. yesindyref2 says:

      And by the way it’s very clear the EU is prepared to act real fast for the UK. Not the lesiurely 6 months that was talked about 2 years or more ago, but days. Even hours.

      Could the EU award Scotland a transition within the EU – even with a day’s notice?

      It could if it wanted.

      Isn’t it a shame Sturgeon and Alyn Smith and the SNP haven’t been courting every single country in the EU.

      Oh, ooops, I dun it again!

      (mmmm, I’m kind of wound up, sod the work there’s always later on today)

    296. Street Andrew says:

      misteralz says:

      “Ahhhh, The Scotsman, reporting a drop in maths and English ”

      Pot. Kettle. Black. Say no more.

    297. CameronB Brodie says:

      You might find these spatially themed links useful. To boldly go…. 🙂

      Discourses of mobility and polycentric development:
      A contested view of European spatial planning


      This article carries out an analysis of the European Spatial Development Perspective (ESDP), a policy document which represents a critical moment in the emergence of a new discourse of European spatial development. The analytical approach probes at the power relations which have shaped the ESDP framework and its contents, focusing on the twin core themes of spatial mobility and polycentricity. The analysis concludes that in the contested policy process a new spatial discourse of economic competitiveness is emerging at the expense of social and environmental interests. This new discourse will be further contested as implementation takes place in an uncertain policy environment.

      Re-conceptualising Territorial Cohesion Through the Prism of Spatial Justice: Critical Perspectives on Academic and Policy Discourses

      The European Union’s Normative Power: Critical Perspectives and Perspectives on the Critical

      The Territorial State and Perspectives of the European Union
      2011 update
      Background document for the Territorial Agenda of the European Union 2020

    298. Cherry says:

      @Capella and Petra, I’ve only skimmed this DfS site and it’s patronising way of explaining, do they think we’re all stupid! I think it’s full of sweetness yet it tastes like poison. I think we should treat it with care as it’s full of crap. IMO !

    299. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Liz g @ 23:59,

      You can bank on that drink, ma’am.

      It’s pity though that some on here are rather too eager to resort to slander because they can’t handle disagreement, or wish to establish some kind of self-created orthodoxy. Either way, a token of a certain brittleness of belief. I may disagree with something or other, passionately at times, but I would never cheapen myself by hiding behind sly accusations of treachery toward anyone in the indy camp, simply because I disagree about some point or another.

      You’re either for independence or you’re not. So any residual hint of disloyalty is just as toxic as a full-on accusation, it’s simply more insidious. Attempts to suffocate debate or even assuage a fragile bruised ego by the casual casting of doubts as to loyalty are not what this cause is about, nor what this site is about either.

    300. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah well, it hits the barrier of integration and perhaps to coin a word “averagisation”, along with the more usual “normalisation” and “harmonisation”, against distinction and recognition of regional differences. Personally I’m more the latter.

      More precise and accurate regional accounting would definitely be essential as a tool, part of the reason I’ve said for years the EU is trying too fast to move to the “USE”. But as much as anything it involves “personal space”, and we’re often very reluctant to allow outsiders into that, and that reflects across national and regional boundaries.

      The result of trying to bring people together too fast is like similar poles of a magnet, it actually thrusts us apart. The EU project took no account of this, and is partly repsonsible for the rise of interest in Brexit – which is somewhat reflected in other member states.

      Regional accruals accounting is a low priority, sadly, and Brexit won’t help that either as, like the banks crisis, concentration will be on recovery, not optimisation.

      On the other hand I’m waffling my usual load of rubbbish 🙂

    301. yesindyref2 says:

      Hear hear. It’s destructive, not constuctive. Not a way to build (rebuild) an Independent Nation.

    302. yesindyref2 says:

      Regional accruals accounting is STILL only a step by the way, it would need to be followed by something like “value accounting” but that’s a way different story. Wales would be a prime example of a country that could benefit from that advance as it would inevitably mean a lot more inwards investment into infrastructure – much more than Scotland.

      I shall go to my scratcher real soon now …

    303. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, final thought, You’d have to value not just tourism, but the value of open spaces, the availability of outdoor leisure, the “wild”, (and indoor for more urban places). That’s it, enough of the cobblers. Or Ben Arthurs as we call them.

      Night all.

    304. twathater says:

      Mike Cassidy 12.30am that link you provided has the international courts comprising of corporate lawyers taking states and countries to THEIR court to sue them for loss of profit with NO redress they actually overule the courts of the country and their decision is final .

      Example If a company wanted to introduce fracking in Scotland and the SG said no that company could take the SG to this court staffed by corporate lawyers , if the court found against the SG which it would that company can sue the SG for billions of lost profit with no right of appeal

      This was one of the reasons TTIP ( Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership ) failed with the EU , there was a massive outrage that the EU was even considering this deal , and it was only defeated at the last gasp by the overwhelming work of many European people’s groups , if this is even introduced to the UK govt they will bite their hands off to sign up , and if we are not free by then we will be well and truly f***ed

    305. yesindyref2 says:


      I think CETA, a model the UK has talked about, is still in a trial state rather than ratified, and I suspect both Canada and the EU should kick it into touch.

    306. Cherry says:

      Oh and go to the Home page it’s a doozy! Look at all the pretty things we’ve given you, we want to be your friend. I had to come out as I was actually feeling the anger rising in my throat! If you go to look at “how our revenue works” it’s obviously designed to put off anyone who should wander off the path to the “rainbows and unicorns”. Hopefully someone (with bigger brain than me) will scrutinise the graphs (by K**** H****?) I did enjoy the interactive map…lots of pretty colours lol!

      Seriously this could catch out a few wavering folks, needs called out for the propaganda it is.

      Anyone notice our two or three(Jury still out) new “players” spotted two yesterday same MO knocking the journalistic skills of our patron whilst being regular readers, today’s attempt was an easy spot tho. 😉

    307. twathater says:

      RJS 2.45am I agree Robert too many too quick to cast assertions , we all have opinions but hopefully we are ALL fighting for the freedom of our country and nation

    308. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not trying to sell the EU, though as a political project aimed at supporting the principles of Enlightenment, it get my vote over a backwards oriented Brexitania. I was simply trying to provide theoretical context to aid rational self-determination. Here’s some spatial themed Political Theory and stuff with the same aim.


      Abstract: Innovation and information combined with ICTs constitute a new framework which questions the theories on the functioning of classic space and stresses the need to think of new frames. The principle of acentrality proposed here highlights the role of politics in the structuring
      of space, as well as the role of temporality. For public planning policies to be relevant, acentrality and temporality must be taken into account.

      Key words: spatial policy, location theory.

      The Politics of the New Welfare State

      The Spatial Model of Politics

      Planning in Europe for ‘EU’rope: Spatial planning as a political technology of territory

      P.S. I hope folk appreciate just how narrow the media analysis of Brexit is and look, no graphs.

    309. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, that last link was incorrect.

      Planning in Europe….

    310. CameronB Brodie says:

      The bottom link at 3:42 is the full address for “The Spatial Model of Politics”.
      Tired eyes, night, night.

    311. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, I’ve gone full Tonto. Here’s one with K**** H**** and distributional justice in mind. Look mom, still no graphs. Night, night for real this time. 😉

      Conditional Spatial Policy Dependence: Theory and Model Specification


      When the policy choice in one jurisdiction depends on those of other jurisdictions, then policies are said to be spatially dependent. In this article, we discuss how scholars can bring theories of spatial policy dependence and empirical model specifications closer in line so that the empirical analysis actually tests the theoretical predictions.

      Specifically, comprehensive theories of spatial policy dependence will typically suggest that the jurisdictions receiving spatial stimuli systematically differ in their exposure to such signals as a function of the intensity of their interaction with other jurisdictions.

      Similarly, theories will often predict that governments also differ in their responsiveness to any given spatial stimulus as a function of the institutional, political, economic or social context in which they operate. In other words, theories typically postulate that spatial dependence is conditional on exposure and responsiveness, neither of which is accounted for in the standard empirical practice of estimating one single common coefficient for a row-standardized spatial lag variable. We show how scholars can adequately model both forms of heterogeneity with properly specified interaction effects models.,%20E_Conditional%20spatial%20policy_Neumayer_Conditional%20spatial%20policy_2014.pdf

      Policy Diffusion and European Public Policy

      Spatial organization and development theories in the european context: retrospect and prospect

      • Growth and Equity
      • Institutions and Governance
      • People and Places

      Summary of the academic conference held at the London School of Economics on 21-22 April 2016

    312. Ian R Murray says:

      What does taking no deal off the table actually mean ?
      As I see it there is, the Theresa May deal or nothing
      No deal is the default position it is where we end up if we do not accept The Theresa May offering.
      The EU have said no more negotiations so we can’t make a different deal.So it is Theresa’s’ deal or WTO tariffs and massive lay offs
      How can we take no deal off the table ?

    313. yesindyref2 says:

      I read that “Delivering for Scotland” page, and here it is translated for the gullible Scots. David Mundell, Dover House, White Cliffs.

      Public spending

      The UK’s public spending works unfairly for Scotland and allows the rest of the UK to plunder and share its resources. Like for instance CAP uplift from the EU which should go completely to Scotland, but Carmichael shared out equally over the whole UK.

      How are tax revenues distributed in Scotland?

      We estimate Tax revenue generated in Scotland amounts to £60 billion, including oil revenue, but not revenues generated by Scotland’s pretendy spending outside Scotland, which amounts to near half of what we arbitrarily charge Scotland for in total. This is £73 billion in public spending, much of it NOT in Scotland and under our control, like me and my gang. That means Scotland gets falsely accused of spending £13 billion more than it puts in. What a load of nonsense but we get away with it because they’re gullible ha ha!

      This system of sharing Scotland’s resources means we are well-placed to tackle the UK problems of the future together, such as wasting money on Brexit, navy ships built in Spain, and an ageing society all over the UK as we won’t allow young Johnny foreigner immigrants, but gives the Scottish Parliament the freedom to make many financial decisions for itself, though we constantly sneer at these in the big grown-up real UK Parliament.

      How are funding decisions split between the UK and Scottish governments?

      Scotland has two governments that are both responsible for different things. For example, foreign policy and international relations are reserved to the UK Government, but health and social services are devolved to the Scottish Government. However we’re working on that, and will be grabbing back powers whenever we can, such as on agriculture, American food standards, the environment and on renewables for which we charge Scotland a fortune in grid fees.

      When the UK Government increases funding in the rUK for an area which is devolved, the Scottish Government receives extra funding too, but only if the SNP push like there’s no tomorrow for what is actually its legal right. For example, if the NHS in England gets a funding boost, the Scottish Government will also receive extra cash if it’s lucky. A year later.

      Since 2016, the UK has committed more than £4.8 billion of additional funding for Scotland, sob, after constant demands from its Government. He-he sneaky laugh, it should have been more 🙂

      What powers do the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament have over public spending and tax?

      The Scottish Parliament retains power over many financial decisions, including setting SOME rates of income tax whcih we criticise, and how much is spent on important public services like health and education which we also criticise as does our media slave the BBC. But we also sneer at it, for instance at PMQs instead of answering the awkward questions. Guffaw! Bray, err, donkey noise.

      When the UK Government reluctantly increases funding in a devolved area, the decision on how the additional funding is spent in Scotland is made by the Scottish Government. And we criticise that all the time in the big Parliament and on our TV station.

      Yup, very true.

    314. North chiel says:

      “ Ian Murray @ 0519” , as I see it “ revoke article 50” is still in the equation . Consequently, if the EU refuse to extend article 50 ( unless say for a 2nd referendum), then no extension in effect means its May’ deal ( EU says no more negotiations) versus revoking article 50 . Supposedly it’s a “ remain Parliament” , so perhaps the EU May well not extend article 50? ( the speaker has said that the legal default to “ no deal” can be overturned. ).
      May’s deal is a “ hard Brexit “ in disguise and 100 percent will invoke a call for Indyref2 . A second EU vote should easily be 70 percent remain in Scotland and I am certain if England votes leave again ( although I believe it could well be remain ) we go our separate ways .A narrow remain vote and we might have to wait a little longer ??
      It has always been the case that the Westminster establishment and Tory Junta wanted a hard Brexit and to simoultaneously “ hold the union firm” with the plan thereafter for Holyrood to suffer “ death by a thousand cuts”. Looks like this is coming unstuck and the Westminster Parliament now realise that “ the precious union “ is in mortal danger. Hence the backtracking now towards SM/CU or possible EU 2nd vote.
      Also looks like the EU and Barnier are playing their hand quite brilliantly knowing full well by now that they are up against “ an absolute nest of vipers” ( as can be seen with the “ double dealing shenanigans “going on in the HOC .). Ian Blackford has been so impressive these last few weeks . Boy has May got the message now from the SNP.

    315. Petra says:

      @ yesbot says at 1:21 …”Hello Petra – Caught up with you at last! Still hoping to receive a response in defense of your vehement outburst. Your assertions are completely off the mark. Contrary in fact. Damaging and distorting.”’

      If I got it (you) wrong yesbot apologies for that.


      @ Cherry says at 2:39 am … ”Capella and Petra, I’ve only skimmed this DfS site and it’s patronising way of explaining, do they think we’re all stupid! I think it’s full of sweetness yet it tastes like poison. I think we should treat it with care as it’s full of crap. IMO !”

      Yeah full of influential cr*p that we are paying for Cherry. Hopefully someone will take a closer look at it.


      ‘Theresa May planned to defeat herself, then decided not to defeat herself by defeating herself, then lost. To herself.’

      ”The House of Commons was a Benny Hill chase on acid, running through a Salvador Dali painting in a spaceship on its way to mad infinity and beyond.”…


      ‘Brexit latest: Which Conservative cabinet ministers abstained on no-deal vote?’

      ”During a dramatic evening of Commons votes, four cabinet ministers (including MUNDELL) defied the Conservative whip and abstained on a crucial motion, placing themselves at risk of being sacked.”..

    316. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Fortunately, being an experiened journalist: “An old hot metal man,” as increasingly few of us still “on the tools” can be described, I needed only to read the by-line (who wrote the piece) on that Hootsmon story to realise it was shite.

      Katrine Bussey – that lassie has aways struggled with joined-up thinking and writing. But, she’s brilliant at brown-nosing.

    317. Macart says:


      Nope, she’s still there. And yes, the HoC is still in complete meltdown t’boot.

      Also? No choccy raisins? 😮

      In other news…

      Quite a day and night to be sure. Westminster parliament in meltdown. Not quite the bill of goods sold to Scotland’s population over four years ago.

      Oh, and as for Mr Hammond yesterday?

      “Scotland gets its fair share, and precious little thanks WE get for it” Uh huh!

      Setting aside the obvious and very arguable howler on contributions from Scotland’s population. Not entirely sure he’s thought that statement through.

      For instance. Who is this WE he’s speaking of? I mean, if Scotland is considered something other and something separate. Aren’t we part of the bestest onion in the history of onions? Apparently not.

      Apparently there is a WE that’s not an US too. So much for lead with us, please stay etc., etc.

      Who knew?

    318. dom says:

      Westminster want an extension to Brexit.

      They don’t know for how long or what for.

      The EU have repeatedly told Westminster that they will only grant an extension IF Westminster knows for how long and must also have a credible plan of why they want and extension, Westminster doesn’t know for how long and more crucially they have no plan.

      The EU will not accept such incompetence.

      The EU is totally pissed off with this whole carry on, as are the UK electorate.

    319. Ken500 says:

      The ConDem who facilitated a dangerous, disastrous EU. An action of self harm never before seen in world politics. A absolute unmitigated folly of monumental proportions. Fool hardy and ignorant to favour 40 Tory crooks who have been embezzling public money, abusing others breaking the Laws that they make for 40 years making themselves multimillionaires but compromising others, killing other people. Getting away with murder. Most of them should be in jail.

      Pathetic liars, they lie about everything along with the sychophant Press. No one reads it in Scotland. A great paper destroyed by the lying Johnston Press. Destroying itself. Going down the tubes to oblivion like the Tory Party abd the Westminster liars, A total shambles. Thank goodness for the internet to call the liars out. Along with liar Hammond. Once again lying about the Scottish budget, There was not need for austerity. Total Westminster mismanagement in every way. A total disaster, The monies they have wasted, The rest of them are no better. They are fiddling the books abd lying about it. Starving and sanctioning people. Worldwide, TgecWestmibstet psycho bastards. They have not got a clue. Dangerous, Ignorant abd arrogant,

      Independence and self governance gets closer every day. The absolute shambles of the Westminster governance. Chaos and contempt fir the people, They are absolutely disgusting. Killing people and grttng away with murder. Westminster unionists abd other are a total disgrace. Lie, after lie, after lie. Liars always get found out,

      Iraq War, Dunblane, Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years.

    320. Dorothy Devine says:

      Elmac , you get first prize in the limerick competition!

      Capella , funnily enough David Icke sprang to mind the other day as I watched the Witch of Westminster and her lounge lizards.

    321. Nana says:


      “The person that’s responsible is the prime minister.” SNP’s Ian Blackford has called on Theresa May to work with other parties in parliament, but says she’s refused.

      Feorlean on Hammond’s comments

    322. Nana says:

      Scottish Government introduced the Carer’s Allowance Supplement – providing an additional £442 a year to over 77,000 carers, and Labour tonight voted against it. Utterly shameful.

      In Scotland right now there is an abuse inquiry which is taking evidence from those abused in care all the way up to 2014.

      To “B” or not to “B” (without a deal)
      That seems to be the question.
      No deal management announcements coming from Downing Street implies a potential chaotic exit.
      Plus Scottish Pounds- why stay with Sterling when brexit causes it to plummet, and why let “England’s bank” decide monetary policy?

    323. Nana says:

      Reflecting on tonight’s vote, the SNP’s @TommySheppard said “even the Secretary of State couldn’t bring himself to support the government.”

      The significance of tonight’s votes on Brexit do not seem to have been fully grasped, so let’s have a go at the analysis… 1/ (sorry another thread)

      Deep in the commons rule book

      National breakdown: A glimpse of the vicious chaos of no-deal

    324. Nana says:

      May loses a vote against herself in a crazed night of parliamentary drama

      Repeat after me: there is no such thing as a ‘no deal-lite’. (i) EU will not agree to ‘mini deals’ that run until 2021. Also highly unlikely these cd be negotiated in next 16 days. (ii) Temporary measures wd be valid for a couple of months, at best.

    325. Nana says:

      Closing statements by – Frans TIMMERMANS, First Vice-President of the EC in charge of Better Regulation, Inter-Institutional Relations, the Rule of Law and the Charter of Fundamental Rights – Melania Gabriela CIOT, Romanian Secretary of State for European Affairs at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
      Watch as he tears strips off Farage & Fox

      “The differential treatment of trade on the island of Ireland, and other trade between the EU and the UK, raises concerns. In the event of no deal the EU has already made clear that it will apply its normal third country trade regime to all trade with the UK…

    326. Nana says:

      “We take note of the votes in the House of Commons this evening. There are only two ways to leave the EU: with or without a deal. The EU is prepared for both.

      American B-52 bombers to fly into UK this week amid mounting Russia tensions

      Last week @arron_banks & @andywigmore went to Veneto, the heartland of Italy’s Lega Nord. Today, the plan is revealed. The fascists have agreed to help Britain exit without a deal. Salvini will block an extension of article 50.

      UK military turns to universities to research psychological warfare

    327. Nana says:

      1. Day 8 of Westminster hearings at #CSAinquiry – my round-up in 33 tweets.

      Extraordinary evidence at #IICSA today – Lord Steel admits that Cyril Smith confessed to him in 1979 that abuse allegations against him were true – but Steel still did nothing about it, & made no effort to investigate whether Smith posed any continuing risk to children.

      Here’s Steel in 2018 saying allegations against Smith were “scurrilous tittle tattle”

      Lord Steele admits that former Rochdale MP Cyril Smith confessed to him that child abuse allegations were true

    328. dom says:

      May is to bring back her deal next week for another attempt at getting it through parliament.

      It will be the third time she has tried to get her deal through parliament. (MV3)

      Yet she has the utter cheek to tell the people os Scotland to accept the result of IndyRef1.

      Hypocrisy doesn’t even come close to describing what is happening down in Westminster.

    329. Dr Jim says:

      If you’re a robber and or bandit it looks like now’s the time to go into the hijack business because the UK government’s opening up new opportunities for that kind of employment

      Small setup fee required for mask and chib

    330. Nana says:

      Day #3 & here is @theSNP amendment. Extending #Art50 must be for a purpose – a #PeoplesVote with #Remain on the ballot paper. #Scotland’s voice must be respected & the best way to protect

      Looks to me like Nigel Farage (like many other leading Brexiters) is using a personal service company to shelter his earnings from (ie avoid) income tax.
      Quite a few dodgers mentioned in this thread

      “We will grant you one month, not more than one month.” | EuronewsTonight
      Shona Murray interviewed MEP Philippe Lamberts to get the EU’s reaction on UK MPs voting ‘NO’ to No-deal Brexit.

    331. Macart says:


      Yeah, caught that carers allowance news last night. There’s little that surprises me about Labour voting at this point. So sick of our politics about now.

      Also a lot of people quite rightly upset with Mr Hammond after his appalling and patronising throwaway yesterday. Quite a long way from ‘lead with us’ and ‘better together’. Not so much a slip of the tongue as a slip of the facade from the chancellor.

      We’ve seen it often enough in the HoC bear pit over the past four years, but oh jings. From a government held in contempt by its own parliament should we really be all that shocked though? Hell, pretty much most of the cabinet, up to and including the PM, should have resigned long since and for any number of major defeats and failures in the house. Now? Now we have senior ministers who can’t even be arsed to hide their true feelings anymore and frankly don’t give a shit if they’re out there for people to see.

      Diplomacy is the first victim of arrogance kinda thing.

    332. Nana says:

      @JeaneF1MSP says the voices of the remainers and the people of Scotland have not been listened to

      Lawyer and Rector of @UofGlasgow, @AamerAnwar, says we are in danger of dying as a country if we leave the EU

      The PM may legislate to enable Parliament to pull out of the backstop, reports @thetimes. This
      1) shows reckless disregard for rule of international law
      2) wrecks UK’s rep as a partner
      3) only delays the crisis
      4) threatens safe ratification of the deal by the EU.
      Bad, bad idea.

    333. mumsyhugs says:

      Breaking news – Reports of DUP considering May’s deal!

    334. mumsyhugs says:

      Breaking news – Reports of DUP considering supporting May’s deal!

    335. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @mumsyhug –


      Aw, FFS, think ah’ll mibbe just head back to bed…


    336. call me dave says:

      Shortbread radio has Jenny Mara on an interview because she’s ‘looking after the public pound’ but there’s not enough evidence for her committee to make a judgement on if the moneys well spent but SNP bad.

      I’m sure we’ll have a response from the health secretary … . Oh wait! It might be the line for FM questions it’s Thursday. 🙁

    337. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 Spain Also has a veto on new members of the EU and the party of the man I quoted, the PP, may well return to power in Spain in coming elections with the Citizens Party and the hard right, fiercely anti Catalan nationalist Vox Party. A government of that grouping would be much less willing to allow any independent Scotland into the EU and to give any encouragement to an independent Catalonia than the current one

    338. Ken500 says:

      The Condems elected to protect NHS abd Education. Cameron (protect NHS) and Clegg (no increase in student fees). Habitual liars.They cut both. The Condems cut NHS £4Billion a year and Education £6Billion a year from 2015 to 2020. Education £3Billion a year on student loans theybwill never get back but they have indebted young people. Then increased student loans appallingly. A burden on young people, They cut welfare provision £3Billion a year over 6 years Cut £18Billion. They are killing people abd getting away with murder.

      The cut the Scottish budget 10% a year. Now £3Billion less. The Scottish Gov had to mitigate the cuts. Spending more from the Scottish budget to mitigate the cuts. Put monies into keeping student fees/loans down, Put more into SNHS, Intriduced minimum pricing. No bedroom tax and mitigate welfare cuts. £100million a year. Putting the funding into where it is needed. Essential services. To save funds. Ie social care, nursery care because it cuts costs.

      More elderly people can stay their own homes with support than residential care. More women are working Bec Yse if good nursery provision. Less children are being taken into care or foster care. The numbers are down dramatically. The kinship payment, allowing children to stay with their relatives. Less cost but more affective outcomes. Stsying with grabdparents or family etc. Less family breakdown in an emergency.

      The Tories cut all the essential services funding. Especially in the rest of the UK with no mitigation. There acts are illegal and wreckkess, They are sanctionig and killing people. Getting away with murder. The Tories are spending £Billions wasted on HS2, Hickley Point and Trident etc. A total waste of money with with absolutely no benefits, Borrowing from the Chinese but leaving it off the books. Fiddling the books. The Tory slush fund. They stopped investing in renewables which are cheaper, cleaner and less dangerous.

      The railways in the North of England should have been improved. A absolute disgrace and in Scotland. Historical lack of investment means train journeys take twice as long as in the south. The money should have been spent on essential services. Instead of cuts. NHS, Education and welfare provision. There was never any need for these cuts. Or austerity just totally bad fraudulent mismanagement.

      Thank goodness for the SNP Scottish Gov standing up for Scotland with good governance. Can’t imagine the State of Scotland without them.

      The Forth Road crossing , the AWPR cutting journey times. from 1.5 hours to 30 mins. It is a miracle. Cutting fuel and energy expenses. Increasing conductivity. Cutting expense of travel and journeys. Cutting emissions by 60% + in Scotland. Even though the unionists/green campaigned against the build for years. Totally neglectful and wasting £Billions of public money putting up costs. In fruitless illegal legal actions. A travesty of incompetence and web of lies.

      The Greens were even taking funding from landowners to stop land coming back into public use. To stop the essential road going need their mansions One who was campaigning and trying to stop the road no longer lived in the area but had moved to England. A profession geeen barrister who went around the country trying to stop essential developments. Trying to ruin the economy, Total hypocrites.

      The road shortening journeys. Instead of transport/cars sitting in traffic queues and traffic hold ups for hours. With anxious, stressed out annoyed and often angry people. It cuts two hours trom people’s working day. Shorter delivery times etc. Helping the economy. Despite green/unionist objections. Holding up essential projects and wasting £Billions of public monies protesting. The SNP Gov got it done. The roads and transport in Scotland were not fit for 19C never mind the 20C, ‘The FM in 3rd rate roads’ . What a difference to the economy. Improving the railways as well. Building the Borders railway etc. Investment in renewables etc.

      The SNP Scottish Gov getting thinks done because the SNP Party is funded by it’s members. Concerned citizens, Not corporate business or Trades unionists. The SNP gets it right and does the right thing, They need all the help they can get to save Scotland from the Tory/unionist Westminster mess. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get one other person to vote as well. It will be done. Over the line to prosperity, more equality and success, Changing the world order for the better.

      The Tory psycho bastards and the rest. Ruining the world economy. Time after, time after time. Repeat behaviour, Some people never learn. The unionists destroying their own Parties. What a complete and utter mess, Absolute shambles of epic proportions. In to the unknown abyss. Total ignorance, arrogance, greed and intransigence. The Westminster unionists an abomination.

    339. Nana says:

      Morning Macart

      ” So sick of our politics about now”

      You and me both Sam and likely every sane person in Scotland.

      Some of this morning’s links re Brexit may no longer be relevant, it’s a fast moving carry on and what one reporter/commentator says right now, may be oot the windae a moment later.

      It’s hard to keep up but I’m trying my best.

      Seems #Art62 #ViennaConvention ruse floated by Rees Mogg & Barclay at end of Tuesday’s #Brexit debate is to be dressed up as enough to justify #MV3. Ludicrous sophistry. I trust ?@Geoffrey_Cox? integrity can survive this pressure

      Philip Hammond hinting that @Geoffrey_Cox will start taking account of *other* legal opinion to help him to evolve *his* legal opinion…to help him help the DUP to evolve *their* legal opinion.

    340. Ken500 says:

      If the DUP (30%) support May’s deal. A hard border. They will be finished. It will lead to a United Ireland. Finally after nearly 100 years. The injustice of Partition will be lifted. by 2023? A wonderful anniversary for the Irish people. A Democratic solution for all they have suffered through the years, through the Ballot Box.

      Independence for Scotland at the Ballot Box. Democracy for Scotland at last.

    341. Ottomanboi says:

      How many Westminster mps does it take to change a lightbulb?
      OK, firstly, while we all sit in the dark, let us determine what is signified by the term lightbulb.
      Ordaaah, Mr Thomson! That definitely is not the signifier! Albeit, what is implied does shed light upon the nature of the process of reaching an accord within the context of the current state of conceptual indeterminacy…..

    342. Cactus says:

      Mornin, ah was having a look at The Scotsman webpage to see if aye could find out what their mission statement says, but ah couldnae locate any such message. All ah could pick up on was their “Scotland’s National Newspaper” beneath their masthead, which sounds a bit bland wae nae passion tae begin with.

      @newspaper… can you share yer mission statement wae us SVP?

      Twill be the hat-trick of hullabaloo in the Hoose of C’s today.

      How’s everybuddy HOLDing up aweright.

      This weekend is coming, u can then…

      Netflix & Chill hehe 😉

      Mon the Workers:

    343. Macart says:


      It is pretty fast moving and confusing right enough. How and ever, it really only has one of three destinations regardless of all that confusion.

      Bad deal – No deal – No Brexit (outside runner to say the least)

      Once the initial damage had been done by the arrogant and the ignorant, it was always about how those destinations were to be arrived at by Westminster factions so that they could avoid the worst of all possible outcomes for themselves on both party levels and as a system of government.

      The government of the UK is essentially a victim of its own political practices. The populations under their…care (feel the sark)…, are victims of those practices and elements of a hopelessly compromised mainstream media.

      What people are seeing and experiencing today? That’s the end result of the tail wagging the dog for waaay too long.

    344. Ken500 says:

      Hammond is a liar. He lied as Defence Minister as well. He lies about the Scottish budget/grant. Fiddling the books and austerity. Totally damaging the people and the economy. Another ignorant arrogant Tory without a clue. Clueless wonders wasting public monies. He lied about Trident. Said it would take three years to move it from Scotland, and cost £9Million a year. £27Billion. Then after, said he did not know. Cheaper than retaining it. Totally obsolete, He saud Scotland would pay for it. Not bloody likely, Removing it is cheaper than retaining it, Save £Billions. Rusting contaminated hulks rotting at Rosyth. A total waste of money. Hammond sneered and laughed at the proposal of a Scotish Navy to,patrol the shores. Protecting the coastline based at Faslane,

      Nuclear warheads removed from Greenham Common – 40 mins from London – in 1992. One Law for them another for the rest. If they want them they can pay for them and park them up in the Thames beside Westminster. Not dumped 30mins from Glasgow a major Scottish city without permission.

    345. manandboy says:

      This is it – if there is one article you must read this week, this is it.

      A snippet:-

      “The Conservative MP Caroline Spelman introduced an amendment to the ruling out no-deal motion, which meant that, if passed, it would involve ruling out no deal permanently. In other words, it couldn’t just be ruled out for a couple of months, for a bit more negotiating time. It would be ruled out for good. Which would mean, in all likelihood, Theresa May having to go back to Brussels to seek not a short but a long extension to Article 50, the UK taking part in the EU elections at the end of May, and various other things that, we as a country can no longer do – because we’ve gone mad.

      This was quite the problem. Now, government ministers, and Theresa May herself, having been free to vote against the motion they themselves had introduced, would have to vote against it. Which put dozens of government ministers, and indeed the prime minister, in the rather tricky spot of having to vote in favour of economic ruin.”

    346. Petra says:

      Great range of links this morning Nana, but as I’m rushing out I’ve just skimmed through them for now.

      “Deep in the Commons rule book.” Interesting to see that Bercow can block big T’s deal from being voted on again. But will he?

      Just heard on the news that an amendment will be proposed and voted on today, if Bercow allows it, on taking EURef2 off of the table altogether.

      What a mess. You could spend a lifetime trying to find so many bl**dy useless, inept, deranged ignoramuses, akin to those Unionists sitting in Westminster, and still not achieve your aim. Scotland needs the UK’s “broad shoulders” they said. Aye right, no much use to us if the torso is headless. Not long to go now until we get out of this hellhole folks. Hang on in there.

    347. Cactus says:

      Found it with wiki, or as near as it gets.

      “History. The Scotsman was launched in 1817 as a liberal weekly newspaper by lawyer William Ritchie and customs official Charles Maclaren in response to the “unblushing subservience” of competing newspapers to the Edinburgh establishment. The paper was pledged to “impartiality, firmness and independence“.”

      How times (always) change eh.

    348. Capella says:

      Hi Nana – your links should come with health warning!
      Here is Carole Cadwalladr telling us that Farage and Banks are in Italy getting the fascists to block an A50 extension.

      However, she does imply it’s Putin’s fault. Putin wants the EU broken up you see. So those Texan billionaires who bankroll Farage and Banks’ LeaveEU have nothing to do with this. aye richt.

      @ Macart – will invest in choccy raisins for next week’s roller coaster.

    349. manandboy says:

      The term, ‘it’s not over’, cannot be overstated in the present circumstances of UK politics.

    350. Dorothy Devine says:

      Nana , brilliant Rumanian MEP and Coburn proving himself the complete oaf .

      Scary and despairing news about the B-52’s and disgusting news of Lord Steel over Cyril Smith.

      As for Brexit , what can one say?

      Brexit means job losses

      Brexit means more expensive food

      Brexit means destruction of farms and fisheries

      Brexit means medication shortages

      Brexit means more expensive transport

      Brexit means travel / work restrictions

      Does Brexit mean anything good? Rhetorical question

    351. Nana says:

      Morning Petra
      ” Interesting to see that Bercow can block big T’s deal from being voted on again. But will he?”

      He likes a bit of theatre does Bercow, but I very much doubt he will act on blocking big T’s shenanigans.

      Morning Capella
      “Hi Nana – your links should come with health warning!”

      You are so right Capella!

    352. dom says:

      Dorothy Devine

      Brexit means Scottish Independence.

      Every cloud and all that Dorothy.

    353. HYUFD says:

      Ken500 May’s Deal avoids a hard border that is why the DUP hate it

    354. Breeks says:

      Nana says:
      14 March, 2019 at 7:50 am
      Closing statements by – Frans TIMMERMANS, First Vice-President of the EC in charge of Better Regulation, Inter-Institutional Relations, the Rule of Law and the Charter of Fundamental Rights…

      Makes my blood boil that such a worm like Coburn is there disrupting the EU on a Scottish ticket bought and paid for by the BBC and fixed electoral protocol….

      Robert Peffers says:
      14 March, 2019 at 12:31 am
      @Jeff says: 14 March, 2019 at 12:07 am:

      ” … Over to you Mr. Peffers…..can we do it or not?”

      YES! Scots law says the people are legally sovereign. A majority of the legally sovereign people give the SG a definite mandate to end the union. Job Done.

      At Present the SG only has a mandate for another indy referendum. So unless the SG does it via the international courts it has to be by either a referendum or by a manifesto promise made before a general election.

      Only has a mandate? You keep reminding us the Union is a bilateral Treaty between equals that is asymmetric in every respect of its interpretation. What about Scotland’s mandate to end the Union in direct response to Westminster’s brazen disrespect for Scotland and Scottish Sovereignty? Declare the Treaty Breached and it is dead.
      Scotland requires no mandate from anyone to insist the rule of law is respected.
      Scotland requires no mandate from anyone to declare Brexit ultra vires.
      Scotland requires no mandate from anyone to seek International Recognition of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty.
      Scotland requires no mandate from anyone to bring a test case before the ECJ as the revocation of Article 50 Case proves.

      The truth of the matter is Scotland is held in abeyance because the SNP has a “pet” mandate of a popular majority of Scots prepared to vote for Independence, but yet, it is willing to overrule a popular majority of Scots prepared to vote to stay in Europe. It is that Constitutional inconsistency which you repeatedly ignore but which erodes faith the SNP’s acumen and strategy. You do see that don’t you?

      All the rhetoric of “walking a tightrope” or “hold, hold, hold” is a contrived political agenda to lay a smokescreen for an imprecise strategy which has been indecisive and leaden footed from the outset, constitutionally illiterate, and which for two and a half years has abdicated all spontaneity and initiative to Westminster. It never had to be this way.

      Here we are, at the death, and still we are hostage to Westminster’s initiative even when Westminster is in chaos and has no initiative. And we are seriously advocating a postponement of Article 50 to facilitate holding a second British European Referendum??? And where then??? Listen… we are up the wrang dreel. Stop and think.

      Scotland MUST exercise some Sovereign initiative and formally dispute the imminent subjugation of Scotland’s sovereign determination to stay in Europe, and do so in time to prevent Scotland being removed from Europe.

      I will go so far as to say it is a lie that Scotland’s hands are tied for the want of an electoral mandate or specific referendum for Independence. We have everything we need. We could make safe Scotland’s place in Europe and leave Westminster to bring its Constitutional test cases at its leisure.

      It isn’t the lack of international recognition which bedevils us, it is our own lack of courage and self belief. We don’t even recognise our own sovereignty. No wonder we’re feart to seek a second opinion on it.

    355. HYUFD says:

      Dom At the moment the Commons is most likely to vote for Single Market and Customs Union BINO which would reduce the chance of Scottish Independence actually

    356. Cactus says:

      Just got a message back from The Scahtsman newspaper there… said they don’t have a mission statement because they don’t support or believe in an independent Scotland (it’s written right there in wiki, noted) however… they said they’re on a different kinda mission.

      Check out the next song on that PLAYlist.

    357. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dorothy dont worry about the B52’s, im sure Mr Putin will not be quaking in his boots about the USA deploying 60 year old planesi n his backyard for an exercise.
      Its just jingalistic propaganda to say they are a threat, same as the countless merican warplanes that have transitted through Prestwick enroute to the Baltic States the last few years. Although they do have a silver lining in that they pay costs for that privelidge to Prestwick Airport.

    358. Nana says:

      Morning Dorothy

      Re Lord Steel, I see the libdumbs say they will ‘investigate’

      Aye sure they will

      Mr Timmermanns review of the baddies was excellent, but my favourite part was the speakers takedown of Coburn

      “I’m special and I don’t know what you are”

    359. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lenny Hartley
      They’re still very capable of stand-off missile carrying including nuclear ones, their exercising along the South Korea border was a main reason for Kim Jong Un going flat out developing short and medium, and long-range nuclear missiles, and his nuclear tests, and they’re expected to stay in service for another 20 years or more. It’s gone through a lot of upgrades.

    360. Ken500 says:

      Hammond lied about the Scottish budget, Scotland raised more pro rata than the rest of the UK. £60Billion+ Increased from £54Billion, The UK raises £628Billion in taxes. Increased from £533Billion.

      Scotland has to pay for Westminster illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud, It costs Scotland £Billions which could have been used to improve the economy.and better spent.

      Scotland has to manage within it’s budget. It can borrow very little. Westminster can borrow and spend what it likes in the rest of the UK. Scotland has to pay £Billions on the interest payments on the loan/repayments. on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland but in the rest of the UK.

      Scotland has to live within it’s means. The rest of the UK/Westminster can borrow and spend what they like and do. Scotland has to make £Billions of repayment on the debt but can borrow very little, Not treated equally. (Term of the Union Treaty broken before the ink was dry). Just like the Vow as soon as the ink was dried, English Laws for English. Evel. Edward 1 invade Scotland illegally to raise taxes for his war with France. The Terms of the Treaty of the Union broken. Taxes raised in Scotland illegally to play for England’s wars with France.

      Westminster’s tsxes raised in Scotland illegally to pay for illegal Wars in the Middle East and ekswhere Oil revenues taken illegally and secretly by Thatcher/Westminster. Thatcher, ‘we the English people are generous to you Scots.’ A total lie Thatcher was secretly taking every resources from Scotland to fund London S/E. Leaving Scotland impoverished and in despair for years. A lying sychophant psycho bastard. Just like the rest of them now destroying their Psrty again, This time for good?

      Scotland spends more in essential services but raises more money pro rata. Scotland loses £Billions because of the mismanagement of Westminster in the Oil & Gas sector, the fishing industry and the farming sector, Tory high taxes when the Oil price had fallen lost Scotlabd £Billions. 120,000 jobs lost. Oil sector taxed at 40% since Jan 2016. Corporation tax 30% and 10% supplementary tax. Corporation tax in the UK is under 20%.

      The fishing industry has lost £Billions . UK Gov policy allowing discards for over forty years. Throwing back dead fish for years. Losing and depleting stock. Instead if using bigger nets like Norway etc. A Home Counties Tory was the Fishing minister. The Tories have taken £Million in extra CAP payments intended for poorer Scottish farmers and given it to wealthier farmers in the south. Mad cow came from Alabama and cost £Billions.

      Westminster governance is bad for Scotland. Holding back prosperity and responsible for £Billions lost from the economy. Tax evading. HMRC Laws not enforced.

      Scotland raises £60Billion+ It could raise £Billions more in fishing industry. £3Billion tax evaded. £1Billion less Trident and the military. 4Billion+ a year in Oil/Gas sector, Borrow £5Billion to grow the economy. Less £Billion in loan repayment £4Billion. Average £20Billion+ a year.or more. Taken illegally.

      £20Billion a year. On par with Norway. Norway raises £80Billion a year in tax revenues. Scotland has lost £Billions in Oil revenues because of Westminster total mismanagement. Secrecy and lies.kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Even more for education, SNHS and welfare support, pensions. Not Tory austerity tying the Scottish economy,

    361. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Breeks @ 9.28am

      You wrote:

      “The truth of the matter is Scotland is held in abeyance because the SNP has a “pet” mandate of a popular majority of Scots prepared to vote for Independence.”

      The facts are:

      1. By the FPTP methodology used in Westminster elections, the SNP, through having a majority of the Scottish MPs, has a mandate from the Scottish electorate for independence.

      2. By the voting methodology used in Holyrood elections, the combined SNP/Greens majority of MSPs give a majority in favour of Independence.

      3. The SNP-led Scottish Government holds a mandate from the Scottish Parliament to hold a referendum on Scottish Independence.

      That’s a triple lock in favour of, at the very least, another referendum on Scottish Independence.


      We know the in-built Unionist majority at Westminster will leave no stone unturned in their efforts to hold onto Scotland’s wealth. We know they will pauchle every rule in the book, and, if they can, introduce a few new ones, if it means they can hold onto Scotland. Because, they cannot afford to let us go, or England is bankrupt.

      So, the only means the SNP has of demonstrating to Westminster, the rest of the UK and the world, that Scotland wants to be free, is by achieving a majority vote, of the sovereign people of Scotland, in favour of Independence.

      Getting that majority will be extremely difficult, and, as I wrote above, if they can, Westminster WILL pauchle things to the ultimate degree to prevent this happening.

      They will then, in the negotiating time between a successful pro-Independence vote, and Independence Day, use every trick in the book to make life continually awkward for us after Independence.

      And, by they way, even after Independence, I would be very careful of American intentions. A small, independent state, with a lot of oil – why that’s crying-out for American interference in its internal affairs.

      Finally, there really are a lot of po-faced nyaffs kicking about, objecting to Mhairi Black’s use of that grand old Scottish expression: “A big riddy.”

    362. manandboy says:

      “Brussels has said a vote by UK MPs to block a no-deal Brexit in any circumstances is a meaningless move, with one senior EU negotiator describing it as “the Titanic voting for the iceberg to get out of the way”.

    363. manandboy says:

      The devious and scheming contortions by Theresa May and this Tory Government, on display in the House of Commons this week, should sound a loud warning and timely reminder to the Scottish Government in particular and the Yes movement in general, about what it will face in Westminster in the transition to Scotland’s Independence.

      In the Tories, the political branch of the English Establishment and Ruling Class, there lies possibly the most treacherous, devious and murderous collection of people in human history, overshadowed only by the Nazi Party in Germany in the 1930-1945 period.

    364. Dorothy Devine says:

      And there I was feeling a tad happier with Dom’s Brexit means independence when along comes whatshisface to say the opposite .

      Lenny tells me not to worry about ageing bombers and along comes indyref2 to tell me I should .


      Nana , neither you , me or Scotland trust the Lib Dems to do anything but lie. Come to think of it neither you , me or Scotland trust the other two contemptibles to do anything but lie aided and abetted by disingenuous , untrustworthy media.

    365. Ottomanboi says:

      From Brit hubris the UK tail fancies it can wag the EU dog. The EU decides what is or not ‘a deal’. The British state is the suppliant here not the European Union. Besides the EU has already effectively docked that troublesome tail. The possibility that Scotland will be docked too is worrying.
      I see no sign of a rabbit in the SNP hat. A fair amount of showmanship but no actual SHAZAM!

    366. Ken500 says:

      Scotland has one of the best education system in the world. More people in Scotland go to university (50%) than anywhere else in the world. Youngsters are in training, apprenticeship and college. Learn skills. Life long learning. People can go and learn skills from education with support. Change careers, jobs and businesses. Scotland has more universities and colleges (pro rata) than anywhere else in the world, Investment by the SNP Scottish Gov. Trying to maintain services under stress because of damaging unionist policies in Westminster and Scotland.

      The unionists councils are funded by the Scottish Gov to improve education standards. They cut the budget using the statutory tory limit (30 pupils) to keep class sizes too high and not build or improve essential schools. Not recruiting essential teachers. Blowing the budget and borrowing. Spending on non mandated monstrosities of empty shops, offices and under occupied hotels. Not spending the budget on essential service. Education, social and welfare care.

      There are already empty, shops and offices. A total eye sore. When people want pedestrianisation and open spaces. They get a non mandated, high rise concrete jungle sitting empty. Closing roads increasing congestion and emissions damaging the economy and people’s health. An illegal unionist regime kept in place by a two job Tory. Never there. Another absentee Tory abroad and abstainers. A stain on the community and society.

      A LibDem who illegally changed to an Independent as soon as being elected. The usual Libdem behaviour. What to expect of them A unionist cabel of arrogant, incompetent ignoramouses breaking every rule in the book. Most of them should be censored but they just just get away with it. Breaking electoral Law. Making false representational promises, declaration and vows.. When the SNP get the most candidates and would manage efficiently,

      A total disgrace of local gov, Graft and corruption. An absolute shower. Breaking every rule in the book and get away with it. A travesty of justice. Facilitated by the electoral system being changed without a mandate to STV. (LeslieEvans non elected PR). D’Hond’t keeping unionists in power to ruin Scottish economy. Trying to keep Westminster corrupt control. Ruining the Scottish/world economy.

      A unionist Council sitting in a £Billion HQ for 60 councillors. Many local landowners. Not paying their Council tax on castles. Non payment. Not building essential schools or affordable houses. Inceasing class sizes and lack of accomadation. Increasing parking charges. Like that will make much difference to the local economy. Irrelevant by proportion. Irrational policies.

    367. Big Jock says:

      It’s how easily they lie and how easily people fall for it that really bothers me. Even us on here are not immune to the headlines.

      Sometimes we get mugged by the tabloids or Radio Shortbread. When you point out to people who read the Scotsman that they are not being told the truth. They just sight and say:”I suppose you read the National scoff scoff”.

      How do you deal with people who are being lied to and take the moral high ground. They think their news source is entirely credible. How do we get them to the truth!

    368. defo says:

      Capella & Nana.
      Carole Cadwalladr was named in the same Integrity Initiative leaks as Leask

    369. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindyref2 i am well aware of the capabilties of the B52, i have even read the Dale Brown Old Dog books 🙂 what i am saying its no different to the sabre rattling going on in the Baltic States, you gotta remember Capitalism dies the minute the spending power of the Military Industrial complex is significantly reduced. Its a sort of real “Trickle down “ 🙂 Most of my life I have lived under the shadow of Nuclear Armageddon , i aint gonna get stressed about it now. Btw The Yanks could have been flying B25 Mitchells around Korea and that nutter would have overreacted, are you trying to tell me he got upset about a few old creaking b52’s ? Or did he not know about the several thousand Nuclear tipped missiles of one type or another at theYanks disposal?

    370. Robert Louis says:

      I am slowly coming to the opinion, that if indyref2 is denied a section 30 agreement by London, then very decisive action will be required. The mandate to hold such a referendum is absolute and clear. If Westminster tries to stymy such a process, the Scottish Government should, I think, declare the treaty of union at an end, thereby forcing Westminster to go to court, rather than the other way around. However, as Scotland at that point would be independent, the pretendy English ‘supreme court’ in London would play no part.

      Such a unilateral ending of the treaty of union, would be in order to remain in the EU, with a clear decision to hold a confirmatory referendum within a few months.

      You see, if notionally, Westminster believes it has the ‘power’ to prevent a Scottish independence referendum, then in all reality their is no other way forward for Scotland. The only solution is for the democratically elected Scottish Parliament and Government to do what is best for Scotland’s interests. Brexit is NOT in Scotland’s interests.

      I think it is clear to the whole world, that Westminster, and especially Downing Street is no longer functional. Given the animosity which England has generated against other countries, I would expect most countries would agree with Scotland taking such a course of action in its own interests.

      This mess cannot go on. Scotland has tried, but cannot ‘save England’ from its own hell-bent stupidity. Let them have their brexit, but Scotland should move on without them. The First Minister’s responsibility is to Scotland.

      The Scottish Government has a clear democratic mandate to keep Scotland within the EU, and hold a referendum on independence. It also has a responsibility to do whatever is in the best interests of Scotland. If neither can be achieved within the union of 1707, then that union must be unilaterally ended or at the very least suspended (with a confirmatory referendum to follow), such that democratic decisions in the interests of Scotland can be implemented.

      This simply cannot go on. The Uk is very clearly a failed state, and Scotland needs out.

      This is not UDI, since that is not possible (or even required) for a country joined in a political union with another party. It is common sense, and if a treaty (1707) no longer serves the interests of a country, it may be ended unilaterally.

    371. Clootie says:

      Sorry if it has already been posted.
      FMQs switched from BBC2 to the new channel BBC Scotland.

    372. Liz g says:

      Big Nick @ 10.45
      Welll,Big Jock, I don’t think you can “make” them see the truth!
      But just as you pointed out, even we are sometimes caught out by headlines… So I guess that it’s the exposure to other counter headlines that will catch them and cause them to question.
      They may say “I suppose you read that in The National” but there is a part of them that did just hear what you said and that wee seed of doubt is the start.
      Most people like to think they are fair minded and almost never disagree with there being two side’s to every story and putting it that way is at the very least going to make them think!!!
      They, also,in my experience, take great delight in catching out a lie,provided they think they are the one’s who did the catching 🙂

    373. Nana says:

      Treasury appear to be trying to bust the rules of devolution again, bypass the Scottish Parliament and force local authorities in Scotland to compete with each other – if brexit happens there’ll only be more of this.

      Warning – at the end up pops the clown Coburn
      “It’s the end of the @Conservatives” says @Coburn4Brexit who comments ahead of MPs voting on whether to extend Article 50 tonight

      British Government has abandoned any pretence of impartiality – Michelle O’Neill MLA

    374. Nana says:

      During my consultations ahead of #EUCO, I will appeal to the EU27 to be open to a long extension if the UK finds it necessary to rethink its #Brexit strategy and build consensus around it.

      Brexit extension of 21 months ‘a possibility’ – Coveney

      1. IF govt gets meaningful vote thro before 20th, and then EU gives short extension, I understand govt will do as much as it can to get the law required through the Commons so we can still leave as soon as possible

      That’s all for today

    375. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jeff says: 14 March, 2019 at 12:07 am:
      ” … Only has a mandate? You keep reminding us the Union is a bilateral Treaty between equals that is asymmetric in every respect of its interpretation.”

      Yes. That’ll be because it is true. The bit you seem to have missed is that I also keep reminding you that there is no actual parliament of the Kingdom of England and hasn’t been since 1707.
      Westminster is legally the United Kingdom Parliament but has never been run as the parliament of the United Kingdom but as the continuing parliament of the Kingdom of England.

      There is the first problem your argument bangs up against. How does the Parliament of Scotland take legal action against the Parliament of England when a parliament of England does not legally exist?

      … What about Scotland’s mandate to end the Union in direct response to Westminster’s brazen disrespect for Scotland and Scottish Sovereignty? Declare the Treaty Breached and it is dead.”

      What mandate would that be, Jeff? The SG doesn’t have one. The SG needs a majority of the electorate to say they want independence. This is because the SG is not legally sovereign, the people are and the SG needs that mandate to tell Westminster the Union is over.

      ” … Scotland requires no mandate from anyone to insist the rule of law is respected.”

      There you go again, “Scotland needs”, but the SG isn’t sovereign and can only speak for Scotland if the legally sovereign people of Scotland give them a clear mandate.

      Let’s try and get this into perspective, shall we? There is a contingent of MPs at Westminster. They are supposed to be Scotland’s representatives in the legal United Kingdom Parliament but Westminster is not being run as the United Kingdom Parliament.

      Westminster is the de facto Parliament of the country, (not even the kingdom), of England. The proof of that is EVAL which proves Westminster is the Parliament of the country of England. So there is the first thing that needs to be challenged in a court of law.

      In fact the whole idea of devolution is a breach of the Treaty of Union but it does throw up an, unintended by Westminster, problem for Westminster.

      Their idea to create a new Scottish Parliament backfires upon them because the independent parliament of the Kingdom of Scotland was not ended but only prorogued and was reconvened by Winnie Ewing.

      They have never challenged that fact. So we have a legal and proper Parliament of Scotland and a handful of Scots in a de facto parliament of the country of England who are mostly ignored by the de facto parliament of the country of England.

      Thing is that Westminster does not acknowledge any of that and to sort it out in the courts and eventually getting to the international courts is not only a long process but could be open to quite different conclusions than we would hope for.

      So there you go – you obviously don’t get the fact that it is the people, not the SG, who are sovereign and they do indeed need a mandate to take any particular action and your next claim proves that you are getting it wrong as you say:-

      … Scotland requires no mandate from anyone to declare Brexit ultra vires.” ‘Scotland’, is the legally sovereign people. It is not the SG at Holyrood nor is it the SNP faction at Westminster. Thus they need a specific mandate and to date they do not have that mandate.

      However our FM is a lawyer and Joanna Cherry is a QC and the SNP have an extraordinary large number of qualified lawyers among their number. Who knows what legal measures they have that can shorten the process of how Westminster rules the so called, “UK”, that we all know is decidedly illegal.

      One thing I’m certain of is that if there was a safe legal way to have Scotland regain hr independence the SNP/SG would have already used it. However, over recent weeks their tone suddenly changed. Now they do not just complain about abuses the very strongly declare, “Scotland will not be ripped out of the EU against the will of the people”. Something has changed their attitude and we will do well to listen.

    376. Abulhaq says:

      There will never be a massive majority in favour of independence. The Union flag rump of hard Unionism is unlikely to budge. The undecideds, of which there are many, will if sufficient numbers are convinced by the arguments. At the moment the undecideds are either hedging their bets or are in a quandary.
      The perceived perils of Brexit, but the notional imagined security of the British status quo, complicate matters.
      Talk of a Scottish currency, with its attendent risks, as a possible option to entering the relative security of the Eurozone is a further complication.
      The logic of an independent Scotland is sound, unfortunately in politics people are swayed by other things than the rational.

    377. galamcennalath says:

      Totally OT, but very relevant.

      When will GOOGLE.SCOT appear?

      When will I be able to do a simple one word search for ‘government’ and get results pertinent to Edinburgh?

      Or, 100s of other searches? I don’t want UK results because it means London centric. Most folks, most of the time, use Google as their gateway to information. We want Indy, of course, but there are many other steps which could be taken in advance of that to ‘nation build’. The SNP do take that approach in many areas, but Google would be a huge step.

      The Scottish Government should be lobbying Google.

    378. defo says:

      Well OT, but…
      No para squaddies should be held to account for bloody Sunday.
      On that morning, the platoon leaders would have been given a briefing by the CO, including (standing?) rules of engagement.
      The CO would be acting on orders from above, and the top brass take their cue from politicians.

      Watch the wee guy get hung out to dry, to protect those who are ultimately responsible for the atrocity.
      The timing of this announcement has deflected attention from the utter incompetence of Brady.

    379. manandboy says:

      Abulhaq, flawless forensic there, finishing with, “The logic of an independent Scotland is sound, unfortunately in politics people are swayed by other things than the rational.”

      And, it is these ‘other things’, which the British Government /Establishment has a specialism in, and why they concentrate so much time, effort and money on them. Notably via the formidable BritNat propaganda industry by which the electorate are rendered confused and then persuaded to set truth-based logic and reason aside, to rely predominantly on the emotions, fear in particular.

      So for a small colony, such is Scotland, the path to Independence is not easy to navigate.

    380. Ken500 says:

      Bloody Sunday. Only one murderer charged. A scapegoat. Taking the rap.

      Westminster unionist cover up. Kept secret, illegally under the Official Secrets Act. ‘D’ notices. For unionist supporting DUP votes at Westminster. The DUP corrupt, criminals breaking UK with impunity. A Law unto themselves protected by Westminster unionists for support. DUP want to be part of the UK so they can illegally break UK Law with impunity. Wasting £Billions of UK taxpayers money.

      Scotland raises £60Billion+ in tax revenues.
      The UK raises £628 in tax revenues.

      Take £60Billion from £628Billion = £568Billion. Divide by 11. Scotland 1/12 of UK pop = £55.5Billion. (Rough approx pro rata).

      NI illegally over funded by Westminster Unionists wasting £Billions of public money.

      Wales illegally under funded by the Westminster Gov. Lack of investment. Wales benefits from proximity to London S/E. People can live in Wales and work in London SE. A two hour commute or less. It would be better to invest in Wales and provide jobs there. A Tidal scheme for Swansea was cut by Westminster. It would have brought much needed investment and benefit. Cheaper energy.

      Hammond claims UK Gov borrowing is down to £20Billion. A small deficit? By cutting essential services. Too much cuts damaging the economy. Building up trouble which will cost more in the future.

      Hammond leaves out the £Billions being borrowed from the Chinese. The Tory slush fund in consultancies, fees and bank charges. Cameron and associates embezzling public money. In the trough of public money. £Billions wasted. PPI waste. Claims it is investment, Bsd investment for useless projects of no value which will cost msny times too much. With no business case. There are much cheaper, better, more effective schemes. To cut journey times. Investing in the North of England and Scotland where journey time take twice as long by comparison.

      Hammond can’t count or read a balance sheet. Just like the rest of them. Ignorant, arrogant, intransigent incompetents. Dangerous criminals. Above the Law. The Laws that they make. Impunity from prosecution. Most of them should be in jail.

    381. Robert Peffers says:

      @HYUFD says: 14 March, 2019 at 1:12:

      ” … Robert Peffers The leader of the largest group of Spanish MEPs has stated Scotland would have to get to the back of the queue in terms of EU membership.”

      So who is this leader and what is this group?

      Un-named sources prove nothing except deception by the claimer.

      I quote the Spanish government’s official views.

      Also there is no queue for EU membership and there never has been one. There may be a delay for a state seeking membership if they do not meet certain requirements but there is no queue.

      Furthermore, Scotland, having been in the EU since ever there was an EU obviously complies with all EU requirements.

      In any case here is a wee bit of reality – Spain has the EU’s largest fishing fleet and not only that, fishing is probably the most important part of their economy, (after tourism}.

      Now if Spain were to oppose an independent Scotland’s entry to EU Membership then the Spanish fishing fleet would lose the right to fish in Scottish waters.

      Scotland has the longest coastline in Europe and that means the Scottish territorial waters are the largest in Europe. Spain would be cutting it’s own economy by preventing Scotland being in the EU.

      The official Spanish government’s expressed view is that they will not veto a Scottish request for EU Membership.

    382. Socrates MacSporran says:

      After today’s latest skelping of his erse by Nicola Sturgeon – how much longer can the Rev keep wee Willie Rennie off the top of the Thickos leader-board.

      Even Mike Rumbles laughed at one of Nicola’s quips about his hapless leader.

      Jackass Carcrash set the bar low for questions today; but, even-so, wee Willie managed to slither under it.

    383. SilverDarling says:

      A touch of the Streisand effect at FMQs today with ‘Ragman Rolls’. The Tories really are the gift that keeps on giving.

    384. What a refreshing change to hear Scottish Labour on the same side as Nicola instead of whingeing for a change – actually making a valid point and going on the ‘attack’ against Scottish Conservatives – albeit with no teeth in.

    385. Ken500 says:

      A border – hard or otherwise will devastate the Irish economy. Even more than the Westminster unionists have done for centuries. Including the illegal Partition of Ireland and brutal force in Ireland countenanced, illegally by unionists at Westminster. A re imposition of a (harder) border in Ireland will damage the Irish economy. and cause trouble. North & South. It will be so unpopular it will lead to Irish reunification. Demographically.

    386. Jack Murphy says:

      Robert J. Sutherland posted last night at 8:43 pm:

      ” Drew Hendry MP did a great job when interviewed on CNN a few minutes ago. ”

      Mr Henry is a Scottish National Party Member of Parliament and the Shadow SNP Spokesperson for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.
      He was interviewed by both CNN and CNBC.

      Here is the CNBC interview:

    387. call me dave says:

      Wee Dicky Leonard keeping a low profile at FMQs acting as the stooge feeding the lines to the FM to further berate the Tories darn Sarf! 🙂

      It was, overall, a quiet affair.

      Oh Wait! James Kelly rises to ask about free bus travel and Barnett consequentials arising….no panic he was swatted away.

    388. Ken500 says:

      The appalling mess at Westminster. It will all end in tears as usual. What an absolute disgrace. Murray now speaking googlygook. What an embarrassment of incompetence. Beyond belief. NOW criminal, cheating Paisley threats. You could not make it up. DUP criminals above the Law. Troughing and wasting public money. What a shower. What a hypocrite. Most of them would be in jail if there was any justice.

      Most of them are half pished and it shows. Big red wine faces. Never out of the several Bars. The should be breath analysed and drug tested. Tranquillised. Put them out of their misery. What a selection of specimens. Vacant coupons, Horrific. Cash should have been retired long ago. Redwood got a knighthood to keep him quiet.

      It is just beyond belief. Now they want extentsions. What the heck, Not an intellect between them. The only ones with any sense are the SNP. Trying to hold them to account.

      Now they are discussing revoking Article 50. Beyond belief. How long can this farce continue and go on.

    389. call me dave says:

      Jings! “I’ll have to cut of members” says Presiding Officer

      Warning that FM Ps & Qs are too long. 🙂

    390. Ahundredthidiot says:

      DR and evening times for days, nothing about brexit on front pages…..

      …..dont mention Zee war…

    391. Clydebuilt says:

      BBC2 Scotland . . . . FMQ’s

      On Sky at noon.

      971 BBC Wales Politics Live

      968. BBC Cl. Bargain Hunt

      There was NO channel 970 the BBC2 Scotland channel. . . Had to go to 457 BBC Scotland to get FMQ’s
      Is this an attempt at reduing the audience for FMQ’s?

    392. Famous15 says:

      Presiding Officer saying he will be forced to cut off members will leave the Lib Dems without Willie.


    393. HYUFD says:

      Robert Peffers He is from the conservative Popular Party, the official Spanish opposition who on current polls will win the Spanish general election in a few weeks with the Citizens and hard right, nationalist Vox Party and form the new Spanish Government. The Vox is fiercely pro Spanish unity and fiercely anti Catalan independence and will not allow anything that could encourage it

    394. Petra says:

      @ Ken500 at 12:49pm …..”Most of them are half p*shed and it shows. Big red wine faces. They should be breath analysed and drug tested. Tranquilised. Put them out of their misery. ……vacant coupons” … and so on….

      Thanks for the laugh Ken. You’ve got a real way with words.

    395. Another Union Dividend says:

      O/T Surprised at the lack of coverage of the astonishing, but not surprising,revelations about Lord David Steel’s lack of action after knowledge of Cyril Smith’s proclivity for young boys.

      More O/T Amazed to learn that Police Scotland are investigating alleged sectarian chants from Aberdeen football supporters directed against the Rangers Manager.

      Didn’t watch the game but have lost count of the the number of occasions when I have heard sectarian chants and songs from Old Firm supporters without any TV comment or Police involvement.

    396. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi HYUFD.

      A scenario. Scotland becomes legally independent and is internationaly recognised as such, including the UN.

      Scotland applies to join the EU. Spain, who has no interest in Scotland’s territorial waters(!), says NO, suggesting that allowing an independent country to join the EU would encourage Catalonia.

      What a pile of TWADDLE!

    397. Fireproofjim says:

      If there is any sort of Irish border then the poor bloody police and soldiers will be drafted in to enforce it, making them sitting targets for dissidents..
      The senior army officers should refuse to accept this political failure and refuse to risk their soldiers lives for the Tory party and the DUP.

    398. K1 says:

      ‘On Lord Steel @LibDems spokesperson: “Following his remarks at the Inquiry, the party has begun an investigation into Lord Steel.”
      Party office bearers meeting tonight to consider options, which include suspension of the ex Liberal leaders’s party membership’

    399. desimond says:


      Given the Bloody Sunday prosecution announcement, you may have that concern the wrong way around

    400. William Wallace says:

      @ Socrates MacSporran 12:29 pm

      “Jackass Carcrash”

      That genuinely made me laugh out loud. Cheers for that. 🙂

    401. Jeff says:

      Robert Peffers @ 11:12 – It wisnae me! 🙂

    402. chicmac says:

      How many times?

      Accession to the EU is by qualified majority voting and has been for decades.

      If Spain alone had voted against Croatia’s accession they would still have become an EU member state. Spain didn’t.

      If Spain alone votes against Kosovo’s accession they will still get in. Spain probably will vote against.

      If Spain alone votes against Scotland’s accession they will still get in. Spain might.

    403. yesindyref2 says:

      Bit of a difference between depleted uranium tank and hardened target busting missiles or shells, and nuclear bombs. Tensions unfortunately are ramping up.

    404. Dr Jim says:

      The Presiding officer want to cut Q&A shorter yet BBCs Toodle oo the Noo section keeps getting longer

      Cut out Bryan Taylor and let’s just have Scotland’s people watch Scotland’s parliament so they can make their own minds up without the need for the BBC informing Scotland’s people what to think and when to think it

      The BBC parliament channel shows the Commons and the Lords all damn day long without the assistance of *journalists*
      are the BBC implying the far more politically aware nation of Scotland doesn’t understand the modern democracy that we invented since we modernised the Greek version

      Since when in history has England ever excelled at democracy and we’re all seeing it now thanks to the Telly that Scotland invented as well

      I speak three bloody languages 27% of Scotland speaks at least two languages and one of them’s English for the benefit of those people in England who don’t speak anything but their own local dialect, so I think Scotland can be trusted to understand what’s going on without assistance from the EBC

      It’s just arrogance from a nation who have kept their own population ignorant so the wool may be ever so easily pulled over their dimly lit eyes

      Clue for the ruling classes, England’s waking up too thanks once again to Scottish enlightenment in what they think is their House of Commons, well we might only take up 8 or 10% of it but we pay cash for the space, the upkeep and maintainance of what England thinks is their parliament but we’re happy to forego paying a share of Englands expences and put that cash to better use in our own Independent country

    405. Referendum1707 says:

      Socrates MacSporran 10.04

      “And, by they way, even after Independence, I would be very careful of American intentions. A small, independent state, with a lot of oil – why that’s crying-out for American interference in its internal affairs.”

      Spot on. The US and some of its more ideologically driven vassal states are undoubtedly now the major threat to international stability. Any government which appears to have as its default position an intent to base decisions on what’s best for the population at large as a pose to what’s best for corporations and banks is regarded as being engaged in “unamerican activity” and as such quickly finds itself being portrayed as some kind of dictatorship requiring US “help” to re-establish freedom and democracy.

      If such a situation arose here the CIA might be looking at the OO as useful idiots that could be secretly funded and armed to create that destabilisation.

      Which is why one of the first tasks that any new Scottish security service would have to undertake would be to monitor and infiltrate the OO.

    406. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “On Sky at noon.

      971 BBC Wales Politics Live

      968. BBC Cl. Bargain Hunt

      There was NO channel 970 the BBC2 Scotland channel. . . Had to go to 457 BBC Scotland to get FMQ’s
      Is this an attempt at reduing the audience for FMQ’s?”

      The BBC2 Scotland channel was replaced by BBC Scotland when it launched.

    407. yesindyref2 says:

      We get on well with the Yanks, so need to keep them close so we can keep an eye on them 🙂

    408. CameronB Brodie says:

      HYUFD is in blind denial of history, international law, moral ethics, economics and stuff. He owns Scotland, in his mind, and he’ll say anything to keep his sanity. The lad has all the appearances of being a cultist.

      In other words, he’s your classical British nationalist.

    409. mike cassidy says:

      You better believe we need to keep an eye on the Yanks.

    410. CameronB Brodie says:

      Have you at any time reflected on your cultural chauvinism, popping up all over the place on social media, to tell residents of Scotland what it means to be residents of Scotland? You are a resident of England are you not? The nation that seeks to usurp the Treaty of Union.

    411. yesindyref2 says:

      @mike cassidy
      The UK after Brexit will be desperate to be able to wave a bit of paper “We got a deal”. THAT list is just the beginning.

    412. sandy says:

      May have posted this previously.

      FUD (as in HYFUD) is local slang for part of the female genitalia. And what is generally excreted from such on a regular basis?

    413. yesindyref2 says:

      FUD is Fear Uncertainty Doubt.

      It’s telling that HYUFD couldn’t even spell his own moniker right.

    414. HYUFD says:

      Brian Doonthetoon Very possible if a PP and Vox Government gets in, ratification of the Accession Treaty to join the EU requires unanimity. Not impossible Belgium could also veto Scottish entry given concerns over Flanders

    415. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think you might be afflicted with the old “social dominance orientation”. You are aware that Scotland is an older nation than England, and that Westminster is grossly abusing the Treaty of Yoonyawn? Now, piss off.

      Beyond liberal multicultural toleration: A critical approach to groups’ essentialism


      The article will argue that, despite Will Kymlicka’s claims to the contrary, the concept of ‘multicultural toleration’ implicitly entails an essentialist concept of groups, which amounts to holding a negative ‘permission’, power-loaded conception of toleration and not a positive liberal ‘respect’ conception. This seems contradictory to the general goal of Kymlicka’s multiculturalism.

      This article will then argue that multicultural toleration is not a satisfactory concept, neither from a conceptual point of view (it is incoherent) nor from a practical point of view (it disregards important aspects of political life). Nonetheless, multiculturalism poses the question of toleration at the correct level of group relations. This article will try to sustain the double requirement of, on one hand, trying to place toleration in a collective frame and, on the other, refusing the essentialist concept of groups used by multiculturalism. The way out of this difficulty can be found in a critical ‘non-domination’ conception of toleration.

      Keywords Critical theory, cultural group, essentialism, millet, multiculturalism, non-domination, toleration

    416. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi HYUFD at 7:10 pm.

      You typed,

      “Brian Doonthetoon Very possible if a PP and Vox Government gets in, ratification of the Accession Treaty to join the EU requires unanimity. Not impossible Belgium could also veto Scottish entry given concerns over Flanders”

      You’re obviously having difficulty in comprehending what you’re reading. I repeat my comment of earlier today…

      ” Brian Doonthetoon says:
      14 March, 2019 at 1:27 pm

      Hi HYUFD.

      A scenario. Scotland becomes legally independent and is internationaly recognised as such, including the UN.

      Scotland applies to join the EU. Spain, who has no interest in Scotland’s territorial waters(!), says NO, suggesting that allowing an independent country to join the EU would encourage Catalonia.

      What a pile of TWADDLE!”

      How… is a region of Belgium comparable to an internationally recognised INDEPENDENT COUNTRY?

      Onnyhoo, you may recall that it was a REGION of Belgium that scuppered the TTIP fiasco. Your ball…

    417. Tom Busza says:

      HYUFD @ various times

      Your assertion that Spain would oppose independent Scotland’s application to join the EU is basically a load of crap.

      It would be more than helpful if you were to post a link to support your argument, such as your link to RT earlier, you could actually make the link current… not a link to an article which is over 2 years old.

      Your point about Spain’s opposition to iScotland’s admission to the EU has been demolished many times over tha last 12 moths or so. The would be very happy to see an independent Scotland in the EU 9I can’t give you the links just because I can’t be arsed to find them at the moment. Just do a search on WoS.)

      Spain’s constitution, famously, does not allow claims of independence by semi-autonomous regions (e.g. Cataluña , Galicia, etc.). By extension of Spain’s constitution, Spain does not recognise non-constitutional independence of other countries. That is why Spain does not recognise Kosovo’s independence as of 1998. Spain is of the opinion that Kosovo declared indepedence through a UDI.

      However, it has been recorded that Spain would recognise an independent Scotland as long as independence were achieved by legal process as extant in UK.

    418. HYUFD says:

      CameronBBrodie Far from it, most Scots apparently do not want Brexit with the Deal or Brexit with No Deal so Westminster has so far voted in accordance with Scots’ Remainers views and also to extend Article 50, much to the fury of many English Leavers

    419. HYUFD says:

      Brian Doonthetoon Flanders has been part of Belgium for over a 100 years less than Scotland has been a part of the UK

    420. HYUFD says:

      Tom Busza Wrong. Spain’s current Government may lose an election in just over a month to a conservative Spanish nationalist coalition including the PP and Vox who are vehemently anti Catalan Independence and anything that could encourage it. As Westminster almost certainly would refuse any indyref2 anytime soon Spain would not recognise it as well

    421. HYUFD says:

      Former PP Spanish PM Rajoy made clear he respected UK sovereignty over Scotland and was quite chummy with May who in turn said she recognised Spanish sovereignty over Catalonia

    422. CameronB Brodie says:

      Whatever, I’ve given up on you showing ethical pragmatic reason.

    423. CameronB Brodie says:

      Final chance to prove you’re not a cultural nationalist, i.e. a bit of a racist. That’s the terrain you have embarked upon and line of reasoning you have followed.

      What Is and What Should Pragmatic Ethics Be?


      The aim of this paper is twofold. First, it offers a summary compilation of the main achievements in recent scholarship on the issue of pragmatic ethics – underlining the lack of consensus, but also showing basic agreement about the key features of the ethical philosophy of pragmatism.

      Second, it focus on two strands of pragmatism: the one spearheaded by Charles S. Peirce, which stresses the importance of habits, and the tendency of things (including human beings) to become habit-governed as the key to the development of ‘concrete reasonableness,’ the ultimate end by which human action ought to be guided; and the one led by John Dewey, which stresses the importance of deliberative activity – a ‘dramatic rehearsal’ of the possible consequences of every course of action – and the central role of educational work in developing the ‘growth’ of human nature, in itself the highest ethical ideal – an ideal that manifests itself in the ‘reconstruction’ of a new and more democratic society.

      National Cultures, Organizational Cultures, and the Role of Management

      Environmental Pragmatism, Adaptive Management, and Cultural Reform

      Cultural Diversity and Universal Ethics in a Global World

    424. CameronB Brodie says:

      And if that’s not enough to convince you of who has the moral high ground in this debate, I’ll give you a clue. It’s not you or the Church of Scotland, assuming they still pledge allegiance to British nationalism.

      Pragmatic Reasons
      A Defense of Morality and Epistemology

    425. Gary says:

      Despite Labour wishing to change this (presumably to CUT teaching posts) we still have ‘ring-fenced’ money for teaching posts in Scotland, the posts are protected at the level they’re at.

      Pupil numbers drop, teachers retire and sometimes aren’t immediately replaced, small variations are of little statistical significance, except perhaps in showing a general direction of travel.

      I once had the misfortune of spending a evening in the company of a boorish Tory (is there any other type?) who said that is was ‘common knowledge’ what a ‘mess the SNP were making of the schools’ I politely enquired of him, saying that I didn’t have school age kids now and asking exactly what was going wrong in the schools, he had no reply. My point is, most folk read these headlines and not the article. They actually believe that ‘newspapers’ like this are telling the truth. How do we get the truth across to THOSE people? Until MSM actually reflects the opinions of the general public then the Tories will have an in-built propaganda machine…

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