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A Penny For Labour

Posted on February 02, 2016 by

We’re just going to leave this here.

Penny dreadful for low paid: Inland Revenue figures back Labour claims public-sector workers would bear brunt of SNP tax plan

Labour will seek to put tax at the centre of its ‘big push’ for a Holyrood majority this week, with new figures showing nurses, teachers, and council workers will foot the bill for the SNP’s ‘penny for Scotland’.

A detailed breakdown of the tax’s impact reveals how public-sector workers would be forced to bear the brunt of a measure that would affect more than two million workers.

An analysis prepared by the Inland Revenue and passed to The Herald confirms Labour claims that the Nationalists’ flagship policy, intended to raise £690m extra for health and education, will fall disproportionately on those on low and middle incomes.

The figures, released with just 72 hrs to go to polling day, mark the culmination of Labour’s non-stop campaign against the SNP’s economic policies.

[Gordon Brown] said last night: ‘There is hardly a nurse, teacher, policeman, or council worker in Scotland who won’t be paying this tax increase. These are the very people the SNP claimed it wanted to help and instead they will be hit the hardest.'”

It’s a funny old world.

And while that link goes all the way back to the birth of the Scottish Parliament in 1999, incidentally, “no tax rises for the middle class” was still official Scottish Labour policy right up to last year’s general election:


We wonder what suddenly changed their mind.

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  1. 02 02 16 11:43

    A Penny For Labour | Speymouth

108 to “A Penny For Labour”

  1. Janet says:

    Scotland isn’t socialist, it’s social democratic, Kez.

  2. Gordon Hay says:

    A thought occurs to me about the plan to have a “rebate” administered by councils – what if the person due this rebate is a council tenant with rent arrears or other debt owed to the council, will the “rebate” be protected from clawbacks?

  3. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    Shurely shome mishtake? That would imply that Labour are;

    a) hypocrites
    b) incompetent
    c) flailing about wildly to try and see if any policies stick

  4. galamcennalath says:

    Aye, there was a time when the SNP proposed daft things too! Now it’s only Labour. 🙂

  5. Macart says:

    Oh, well played and good memory. 🙂

  6. Truth says:

    Yes, this was the first thing I recalled when I saw Labour’s “new policy”.

    The second thing I thought was, isn’t any extra money raised by this deducted from the block grant? Therefore, nobody is better off (except Westminster), and those paying the penny tax (which includes many earning below the national average) are worse off.

    Aye, good one Labour.

  7. Mark Russell says:

    Gordon Brown? Is he still alive?

  8. Auld Rock says:

    Another ‘Mater Plan’ from SLAB’s Fantasy Island using Jackie’s ‘Idiots Guide to Baic Arithmetic’ again. I await tomorrows joke from the Kez. Can’t her dad have a quiet word he must be totally embarassed.

    Auld Rock

  9. Marcia says:

    The Rev has posted what I was thinking, back to the 1999 election campaign which became a millstone to the SNP campaign.

    If Labour were to implement such a scheme there would have to be an administration to make it workable. The problem is that there will be no local income tax workers in Scotland to administer it as all PAYE tax is heading to Croydon as East Kilbride is closing.

  10. Colin says:

    Seems amazing that Wee Dug does not bother checking what others in party have said… !!!

  11. Auld Rock says:

    Correction: Mater should read ‘Master’

    Auld Rock

  12. steveasaneilean says:

    Sorry – cut and paste from my post on previous topic as more relevant here:

    The SNP are right to resist tax rises under the current set up as it disproportionately hits the less well off under the current arrangements.

    There are currently 3 tax bands – 20p, 40p and 45p. Under the current arrangements if you increase one band you have to increase them all by the same amount.

    Let’s say SG wanted to hit the well off a bit harder so they up the top rate to 50p. In so doing they would also have to increase the other two rates by 5p to 25p and 45p.

    So the top rate of tax would have been increased relatively by 11%. The middle rate by 12.5% and the bottom rate by 20%.

    That’s simply not fair

  13. Irene MacKenzie says:

    Don’t call her Wee Dug! We already have a wee dug of ginger appearance and that one is cherished and loved.
    Not ‘Wee Dug’ whatever else you come up with!

  14. Dr Jim says:

    And here was me thinking Kez just wanted to tax the poor to give to Labour councillors to NOT spend it where she says she wants them TO spend it, on the poor wee uneducated children that she ruled out ring fencing it for because that would hamstring the Labour councils abilities to spend it wherever they want to spend it

    Make sense, this sort of thing used to fool voters

    Not any more….Simples

  15. Muscleguy says:

    Last week Wee Willie Rennie made the same policy pledge for the Scottish FibDems. The minor parties are fighting to go down in the election promising jam tomorrow.

  16. Neil Cook says:

    Labour remind me of the dinosaurs, they are trying to avoid extinction but its a lost cause and its only a matter of time they are in a museum!!

    There epitaph will read the only human species to revert back to caveman mentality

  17. jim watson says:

    I would hope that the proposal, as misguided as it is, might also lead to a real discussion about taxation. If, and it is a big if, we want a socially progressive state then taxation must be seen to be fair and also actually be fair. To be progressive it follows that a major tenet of tax philosophy should be based upon the premise that ability to pay should be the criteria to judge proposals on. We need to move away from an over reliance on indirect taxation and back to more progressive direct rates overall…

    If only we had the powers to achieve the above

  18. Doug says:

    I would willingly, as a higher (40% band) taxpayer pay more for public services etc. I would not, however, load that on the basic rate payer. I am also aware, alas, that this is a minority view amongst the better off.

    Labour’s policy is a mess and clearly a cunning stunt.

  19. Macc73 says:

    You couldn’t damage the brass neck on this lot with a blow torch!!! This is exactly why people have lost all faith in Labour.

    Great spot Rev. and I hope someone at the Herald is sitting with his head in his or her hands right now thinking why did I commit that to print but then I assume whomever wrote that got paid a handsome fee for it.

  20. heedtracker says: Usual sneaky creepy Graun SLabour boost. Rupert Carrell says its all to “widen the battle with the SNP.” SLab says SNP only “managing” austerity UKOK.

    Vote red tory, we’ll give homebuyers a free six grand for your new house, then hike your taxes. Its called battle widening, UKOK style.

  21. Bob Mack says:

    Labour—–a kalaidescope of policy. Every one an optical illusion.

    I have the inclination to create a file of Labour policy since last year,but my office may not be big enough for two more filing cabinets.

  22. The Man in the Jar says:

    Should be read to the soundtrack of Barbara Streisand singing “Memories”

  23. Let’s see if I have got this right regarding Labour’s position.

    So long as the Tories continue cutting public spending through their austerity measures and Welfare reforms which sees people being impoverished.

    Labour thinks its a great idea to impoverish people even further by continuing to hike up income and council taxes to mitigate the Tory cuts.

    Just how exactly does this fight Tory austerity and help to abolish poverty?

  24. dunx says:

    Red Tories colonial branch office (Scotland) cunning plan to fund local authorities…….
    Is essentially a Poll-Tax.

  25. Onwards says:

    Very unlikely they will ever have to implement this.
    It is gesture politics only.

    And an attempt for Labour to move away from the constitution and more substantial powers for Scotland.

  26. heedtracker says:

    BBC 24 tv news certainly “likes” red tory battle widening. Its nice to see one more UKOK newsroom slamming in behind SLab. On the hour, by the hour, BBC says vote SLab, SNPbad, its all very exciting, shock.

    BBC ligger says SLab might not win but tax hike allows SLab to show their Scotland region they are anti austerity, “its a BIG, BOLD step for Dugdale.” Anti SNP BBC attack propaganda goes up a gear.

  27. chic thomson says:

    Labour don’t need the 1p increase. They just abstain from changing APD over and over until it has generated enough money from the Baillie magic money tree to suit their needs.

  28. Greannach says:

    I wonder are they ever sober when they issue these things.

  29. Jim Mitchell says:

    As the old saying goes, ‘old sins cast long shadows’.

  30. Luigi says:

    A penny for your thoughts, Kezia:

    I want to know if you really are that daft. 🙂

  31. K1 says:

    The penny hasn’t dropped yet…the Party is over in Scotland for Labour.

  32. Alan Gerrish says:

    Glad the SBBC is objective in reporting this radical policy by SLAB though. First we heard Kezia interviewed by Gary Robertson and althouh he asked a few reasonable questions, the answers were totally unconvincing and she was given an easy ride without serious challenge. After the 8.00 news we heard, or struggled to hear since he wasn’t given a chance to complete a sentence, Stewart Maxwell explain the flaws in the proposals – sounded convincing though.

    And then after the 9.00 news (and amazingly after only a few minutes notice in preparing the programme – they really are so professional at PQ), we were invited to call Kaye with our thoughts on this brilliant anti-austerity wheeze. Couldn’t bear to listen to the responses as they were probably carefully chosen, so there we have it: another totally unbiased news feature scripted from start to finish by the SLAB/BBC propaganda unit. Trouble is, it’s so painfully obvious these days it only serves to reinforce the awarenress of collusion and bias emanating from PQ.

    Keep it up guys, it’s now as good as any other comedy show around and is helping to grow support for indy at the same time.

  33. Onwards says:

    I wonder if this will prevent a bunch of Tory tactical votes for Labour as a unionist party.

  34. GrahamB says:

    I’ve been trying to make some sense of what BBC say Kezia said on GMS this morning –

    “Nobody in Scotland who earns less than £20,000 a year pays tax or will be a penny worse off as a consequence of this, in fact they will be better off.

    “Somebody who is earning the living wage at the moment and is working, technically would pay £49 more tax a year – that’s what Willie Rennie said in his proposal.

    “But under Labour, because they earn less than £20,000, they’d actually be £51 better off – they’d actually have more money as a result of Labour’s policy.”

    Can anyone understand this, I must have my stupid head on today.
    People earning under £20k ‘don’t pay tax’ but ‘technically would pay £49 more tax’ ? …
    ‘Earning the living wage and working’ – tautology?
    Have the BBC reported it badly or was she just talking gibberish?

  35. Onwards says:

    Muscleguy says:
    The minor parties are fighting to go down in the election promising jam tomorrow.

    Raising tax in general might be jam tomorrow for the Scottish government, but it could be rotten fruit the week after.
    If we have higher taxes than England, then it doesn’t exactly encourage jobs and investment and growth. Especially when the short term revenue hike is going straight back as cash bribes.

    If we are to have a tax rise, far better to invest any proceeds in infrastructure. More motorways. An expanded deep water port etc
    Then we have more employment and taxes during the construction phases, and a long term catalyst for economic growth afterwards.

  36. Dan Huil says:

    The bbc’s memory is just as deceitful as slab’s. Thankfully the people of Scotland’s memory improves by the day.

  37. kenneth andrew graham says:

    They still think we’re all daft but they will get their answer in may. WE’RE NOT THE DAFT ONES !!!!!!

  38. Sinky says:

    Another Labour tax wheeze done on back of an envelope.

    If you only earn £10,999 a year you get nothing but if you earn £11,000, Labour will give you a £100 handout …. UK Treasury permitting.

    So Labour penalising very lowest paid workers.

    John Beattie inviting comments on Labour’s bold suicide note.

  39. winifred mccartney says:

    so let me get this right – if your well off enough to save for a deposit for a house labour will give you thousands of pounds but if you earn £20,000 you will loan the govt an extra 1p in tax and get it back annually – you will have to apply for it -and how much will this cost to administer for tax office and personally.

  40. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Yet again, SLab manage to subtract from the sum of human knowledge.

  41. galamcennalath says:

    It might be worth everyone remembering how different the political landscape of Scotland was back in the ‘Penny for Scotland’ days of 1999

    Labour 43
    SNP 27
    Conservative 14
    Liberal Democrats 13
    Scottish Green 1
    Scottish Socialist 1
    Independent 1

    Contrast that with 2011

    SNP 69
    Labour 22
    Conservative 15
    Liberal Democrats 5
    Scottish Green 2
    Independent 1

  42. The Dimblebum show is balanced ?????? says:

    A penny for my thoughts – ………. SLAB the party of soundbites, Jackie Nuclear Reactor Bailie, unsucessful FMQ spats, press releases, ill thought out and on the hoof policy changes, a totally ineffective leader and incurable SNPbad(formerly known as Salmondella).

  43. Gus says:

    This is a great initiative for Slab!

    Speaking as someone from Aberdeen, where amongst the publicised redundancies over the past 18 months those lucky to still have a job have seen wage freezes and cuts of 20%+ over this period for oil workers, this policy will go down like a bad pint!

    Given that the council here is Labour run and this was one of the poorer YES results, it seems like a great tactic to bolster the SNP vote and lose whatever grip they had left on the city and shire!

  44. Capella says:

    Maybe they haven’t forgotten. Maybe they think everyone else has – with the assistance of the BBC.

  45. Mojo16 says:

    Is it worth labelling this article 1999 at the top to spell out the latest Labour contradiction, for the harder of reading Wings visitor.
    Wings regulars will get the point immediately I am sure, but this clarification could be particularly informative for the wandering flocks of confused and depressed ex No voters and (god forbid) spanners, who may stray here in search of facts and research not generally available any longer in mainstream Scottish media.
    I’d hate those poor lost souls to get the wrong end of the stick…and I fear most of them have forgotten that they ‘won’ in September 2014 never mind what was happening in 1999….

  46. If Labour’s North British Accounting Unit were in control at Holyrood & they decided to keep income tax exactly the same rate as it is now & they used their “magic calculator”, how much extra money would that free up for vital services?

    After all, it seemed to work for APD (Air Passenger Duty) which, according to their own estimates would release anything up to £500 million depending on how much it didn’t change at all & of course which number looked bigger than the last number that was completely made up.

  47. Fred says:

    The timing of the Slab Tax is to overshadow Swinney’s negotiations, and if you haven’t a snowballs chance in hell of being actually elected anyway you can propose anything you fancy!

  48. Brian McHugh says:

    Shhhh Stu… I was hoping no one was going to remember and indeed, mention that chestnut… ‘Don’t interrupt your opponent and all that’ 🙂

  49. Sinky says:

    Remember that Labour’s Income Tax proposals means that Scots alone will be penalised twice for Tory austerity cuts.

  50. shug says:

    Funny this was not mentioned on Tokyo Kay’s call in show this morning
    But they did manage to find quite a few callers wanting to pay the tax
    Funny that!!!
    BBC at its investigative best

    Ok I am joking

  51. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says: 2 February, 2016 at 11:08 am:

    “Aye, there was a time when the SNP proposed daft things too! Now it’s only Labour. :)”

    Well no, galamcennalath, when the SNP proposed, “A penny for Scotland”, it was in a totally different context than that of today. First of all there was only a Scottish Block Grant set by Westminster and there was otherwise nothing the SNP could do by way of revenue raising. They were not even allowed to borrow.

    Now we are in a situation where, at this very moment, John Swinney is negotiating to have Scotland receive a fair share of revenue, plus reduced Barnett funds, from a Westminster government determined to rob Scotland even more than before.

    I have no doubts whatsoever that Westminster are, (as usual), determined to maintain their grip on Scottish raised revenues. After all, oil price reductions not withstanding, Westminster does take 100% of the 95% of the oil & gas revenues from Scottish territorial waters.

    I made the point, in the last thread, that in a situation where Scotland was negotiating for a fair share, of her own revenues raised in Scotland, only the Troglodytes of the Labour Party could be daft enough to propose Scotland should need to hike income tax above the rest of the UK to compensate for a UK government that imposes austerity upon the poor while their own statistics prove that the richest sector of the UK population have, during those austerity measures, more than doubled their riches.

    You cannot be under austerity measures while increasing your riches far less more than doubling them.

    In short the so called, “Austerity Measures”, we were famously informed, “We were all in together”, were deliberately designed to take even more from the poorest to give to the richest who were, after all, the sector who caused the need for austerity in the first place.

    Scotland doesn’t need a hike in tax it needs a fair proportion of her own revenues returned to Scotland. Or better still full control of all her own revenues and debits.

  52. heedtracker says:

    Gosh! Another giant boost for SLab tax hike on BBC lunchtime politics show, Ian Grey says its a choice to stop the SNP cuts, which is nae bad/makes no sense. Grey says its costed, £50 million for low paid, £20 million for pensioners cash back. BBC ligger says its SNP swinging cuts which also is nae bad but BBC ligger says its not toryboy world UKOK, its SNP that has the power, to hike taxes, to stop cuts, to pay for toryboy world austerity, which must not be mentioned, by BBC propaganda…

    She doesn’t. Confused? Good.

  53. osakisushi says:

    I think I’ve spotted the reason why BBC, ITV, and printed press are so anti-Scotland.

    It’s all to do with sex.

    When SLAB were in power, reporters would attend briefings, speeches, and other garbage. Inevitably they’d partake tea and biscuits and this always leads to lots of sex.

    Ok, it sounds silly but an uncomfortable number of reporters are married to ‘ex-MSP’, ex-MP, failed Party Manager etc and this must almost enforce a bias against our country.
    In other words, we may not be entirely facing unionist stupidity in Scotland but instead, simply fear of their other half.

  54. HaggisHunter says:

    Gordon Brown wades in again…every time he does, we are reminded how Labour ruined the finances for generations to come, or does he assume everyone is stupid and has forgotten?

  55. Ken500 says:

    Tax teachers, council workers etc to pay for public services. Tax pensioners and give them rebates? Labour/Unionists voted No. Vote No you get nothing. They voted for austerity and cuts from Westminster. Put up tax in Scotland to pay for Trident/illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud. No thanks.Scotland should have FFA (promised) and decide how to raise and spend it’s own budget.

    Scottish Oil sector taxed at 60% World Oil price has fallen 75% Costing thousands of jobs. Google pay 3% tax.

  56. Martin says:

    The idea is simple (and not about money). Propose ridiculous tax change packaged as progressive even though it ain’t. Get compliant media to punt it. Government rejects it, because it’s cobblers. Same compliant media punts SNPBad/hypocrisy stories.

    Tactically very astute 10 years ago. In 2016 though? Not sure it will work.

  57. Paula Rose says:

    Talking of pennies – if you’ve got a few spare this is a good home for them –
    North British News – a gem of a site…

  58. mike cassidy says:

    Truth 11.09

    Could someone confirm that any money raised directly by Holyrood through the tax system — as it is or might be — is automatically deducted from the block grant — and provide a relevant link.

    Is Labour proposing something where such deduction would not happen?

    If they are not, should we just ask the vet to put them out of their misery now?

  59. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, that does it, thanks.

  60. mike cassidy says:

    Macart 1.10

    Many thanks for that.

    So, anybody know a good vet?

  61. Jack Murphy says:

    OT but still on tax.
    TODAY. Moray Council decides to maintain Council Tax Freeze.
    BBC Scotland:

  62. Sassenach says:

    @heedtracker 11.31

    BBC report…..”its a BIG, BOLD step for Dugdale.”

    That sounds, to me, very like Sir Humphrey would have said to Jim Hacker when he was telling him to “forget it” !!

    (The word used then would have been ‘BRAVE’).

  63. frogesque says:

    Wooly unworkable nonsense from SLAB that would be an adminiterive nightmare.

    But let’s see now, how many ex SLAB MPs voted for Austerity cuts before the last GE?

    SNP/SNP May then a dose of salts for the councils in 2017.

  64. Still Positive. says:

    Under Calman from April will any extra tax raised be taken off the block grant?

    Sorry if I’ve missed it earlier.

  65. Almannysbunnet says:

    Mark Russell says:
    2 February, 2016 at 11:09 am
    Gordon Brown? Is he still alive?

    I’m fairly sure he was when this was written in 1999.
    I believe he’s still on the go but alive? not so sure. He does pop up now and again when he’s hungry.

  66. Robert Peffers says:

    @GrahamB says: 2 February, 2016 at 12:00 pm:

    “I’ve been trying to make some sense of what BBC say Kezia said on GMS this morning –

    “Nobody in Scotland who earns less than £20,000 a year pays tax or will be a penny worse off as a consequence of this, in fact they will be better off.”

    No, GrahamB, you haven’t got your, “Stupid Head on”, you just haven’t realised where the usual lies are in the Labour claims. This time, and they do have a wide spectrum of types of lies, it is lies by omission.

    Here’s is the truth – they claim, “No one earning under £20,000 pays tax”, but the truth is that they omitted the word, “Income”, before the word, “Tax”.

    Starting with Labour, Westminster Governments, of every hue of Toryism, have moved the main burden of taxation from direct, (income and wealth), taxation to indirect, (on goods & services), taxation.

    It is a well known economic fact that direct taxation, (provided there are also Tax Allowances for the basic costs of living), tax mainly the Disposable income of the taxpayer.

    Indirect taxation, (on goods and services), means that even those without any income pay tax on the services provided to them and on everything that is bought for them or by them.

    This means that those with more Disposable Income, (that is the sum left after paying statutory tax and National insurance), spend a far lower percentage of their real wealth on taxation.

    To put that another way, a tattie on the rich man’s plate costs exactly the same as the tattie on the pauper’s plate so if you tax the cost of tatties then you are taxing basic living while allowing a lower tax on Lamborghinis.

    So the Labour claim that no one earning less than £20,000 is utter bollox. Even an OAP with no other income is paying a larger proportion of their income on tax. Now consider that the Government collected tax on that OAPs earnings all their life. Now the Government is paying back those deductions in pension payments but are now indirectly clawing much of it back again inn indirect tax. Ask yourself this – how high are indirect taxes?

    You will find a UK example of such indirect taxation here :-

    This indirect taxation is why, even throughout austerity measures, the gap between the rich & poor has widened and today the richest in the UK have more than doubled their riches while the poor are dying from neglect and starvation, queueing at food-banks and getting ever more poor.

    Yet Labour says, “No one earning under £20,000 pays tax”.

  67. X_Sticks says:

    Strikes me that with both the Libdums and the LabDums both coming out in favour of a 1p tax hike (the tories are of course the “tax cutting” tories) they are trying to force the SNP into the establishment’s taxation trap.

  68. Lesley-Anne says:

    So I have a wee problem here. 😉

    Last week wee Jimminey Cricket (a.k.a. Willie Rennie) wanted to raise tax by 1p … apparently.

    This week wee Jimminey’s sister, Jemima Cricket (a.k.a. Kezia Dugdale) wants to raise tax by 1p … allegedly.

    My problem is this.

    Is the 1p tax rise desired by wee Jimminey the SAME 1p tax rise desired by his siter Jemima, or is her wished for 1p tax rise in addition to wee Jimminey’s rise? 😉

    The people need to know the answer to these questions. Are we looking at a 1p tax rise or a 2p tax rise? 😉

    More over will wee Jimminey and Jemima’s sister Rubella Cricket (a.k.a. Ruth Davidson) be calling for a 1p tax rise next week meaning an overall 3p tax rise is in the offing? 😉

  69. Robert Peffers says:

    @HaggisHunter says: 2 February, 2016 at 12:44 pm:

    “Gordon Brown wades in again…every time he does, we are reminded how Labour ruined the finances for generations to come, or does he assume everyone is stupid and has forgotten?”

    Don’t be silly. Gordon just, “knows”, that he is always right and he just, “knows”, it is everyone else that is wrong and he really just does his best to correct their wrong headedness, (or to put that another way – the bliddy numptie’s weel aff his bliddy head).

  70. HandandShrimp says:

    I heard Kezia this morning expounding the benefits of a 1% increase because the rich would pay a bigger percentage.

    I think the concept of what a flat rate increase of 1% means is lost on Kezia. Someone on 20,000 would indeed pay half of that if someone was on 40,000 but the person on 20,000 would undoubtedly find that their disposable income takes a bigger caning.

    The fact the rebate is means tested and that people have to apply for it is also an interesting concept. Kezia reckons that the admin costs would be £1m. I doubt that they would get a computer system for that price much less secure office space and pay staff.

    I have no objection to paying more tax but why not wait until 2017 when there will be more in place and greater flexibility in bands to support the lower paid?

    Looks like a combination of the Labour realising that they cannot promise to deal with Westminster’s cuts unless they raise taxes and a rather hopeful stab at policy differentiation.

    Raising taxes is one thing (and not a bad thing in itself)…thinking Labour is competent to spend them wisely is quite another.

  71. Well those who are currently
    considered to be better off
    Nurses Teachers etc

    Would soon find themsevles less
    better off under Labour.

    And how would they feel knowing
    they would be paying a higher
    rate of tax than their counter
    parts in the rest of the UK.

    And thats before the Tories
    decide to cut income tax in
    the run up to the 2020 general

    This was one of the arguments used
    by many of those in the Labour party
    against independence, Scots paying
    higher rates of tax than the rest
    of the UK

  72. Nana says:

    Kenneth Gibson MSP on slab’s latest policy

    also Rab Bruce’s spider has this to say…

  73. Marie Clark says:

    Did SLAB get this cunning plan from Baldrick?

    Anyway, SLAB wanted abodies tae vote naw, so now thay have exactly what they voted for. They have voted and supported all of the blue tory cuts and austerity measures.

    SLAB have what they voted for, so whit in the name o the wee man ur they greetin aboot.

  74. Here is the current state of a live courier online poll on the subject of a tax increase

    Would you be happy to pay more tax to lessen the need for public spending cuts?

    Total number of votes: 712

    39% (281)
    61% (431)

  75. mike cassidy says:

    dmw42 1.42

    These are FYI extracts from the first link.

    They indicate that no party can be proposing Scottish tax changes without simultaneously explaining their impact on the block grant.

    The Scotland Act (2012) devolves stamp duty land tax and landfill tax to the Scottish Parliament from April 2015. It also provides for the introduction of a Scottish rate of income tax (SRIT) which will apply to the non-savings, non-dividend income of Scottish taxpayers from 1 April 2016. The UK Government will deduct 10 pence in the pound from the basic, higher and additional rates of income tax. The Scottish Parliament will then have the power to levy a Scottish rate that will apply equally across these three main tax bands

    The Command Paper (HM Government 2010) explained that the block grant from the UK Government will be reduced each year to reflect the revenue impact of SRIT. The UK and Scottish Governments have agreed to utilise the indexed reduction method known as the Holtham method to adjust the block grant for SRIT although some of the details of this calculation are yet to be agreed upon by the UK and Scottish Governments.

  76. Macart says:


    Pretty much.

    A crude attempt to undermine the Scottish government and Scottish parliament at public expense. A win, win, win as far they are concerned.

    ‘Course our ever helpful meeja will paint a picture of SNP intransigence should the FM and Mr Swinney kick their ‘settlement’ into touch. HMG, the treasury and the establishment parties will be painted the ever reasonable injured parties and a ramping up of SNP divisive and bad will continue.

    They’re becoming predictable.

    I’d like folk to imagine, just for a moment, a Labour govt. in Scotland and the current Conservative govt. in Westminster unchecked. No SNP in sight anywhere, just those two the way its always been up until recently. No roadblocks or slowing down for any Westminster legislation, committees filled with placemen and enablers, the msm in full control of all information passed on to the public. Y’know, back to the ‘good old days’. Think ‘Its a wonderful life’ scenario and what a single absence of something critical could mean to all those around us.

    If the SNP didn’t exist, they’d have to be invented.

  77. heedtracker says:

    Sassenach says:
    2 February, 2016 at 1:35 pm
    @heedtracker 11.31

    BBC report…..”its a BIG, BOLD step for Dugdale.”

    That sounds, to me, very like Sir Humphrey would have said to Jim Hacker when he was telling him to “forget it” !!

    Jim Hacker’s redemption was always his morality, versus chancers UK civil service and we all know what that crew are like in reality, as they award themselves prices for their UKOK victory 2014.

    BBC 24 crew are up there with the best of the UKOK attack propagandists. Not once have they ask simple questions like, what’s the economic impact of a tax hike in one part of teamGB like their Scotland, already being pounded to shit with low oil prices, absolutely no control of industries like oil, 70% fiscal control at least of Scotland economics via our chums in the south etc freakin etc?

    Given the scale and power of the anti YES, #SNPbad BBC, let alone the Treasury, its astonishing that even 45% voted YES.

    This crew of bullshitters terrified Scotland with all kinds horrid things if we voted YES, most of which have now happened, including this Dugdale tax hike.

  78. Petra says:

    How on earth can a political party in Scotland state what they are planning to do with tax when they still have no idea of the outcome of the negotiations between John Swinney and Westminster? We all know what they are up to of course.

    Wouldn’t raising taxes in Scotland just result in the block grant being readjusted downwards with us ultimately being no better off? Worse off in fact for the lower rate tax-payer and as discussed beforehand with some financially better off individuals heading south, buying a ‘pay tax into the English coffers’ But and Ben in NE or transferring and slapping a plate on an English office.

    Scotland has had the power to raise taxes (of more than a penny – 3p?) for years now under LABOUR and the SNP. Neither did so because they knew that the additional money would have been clawed back by the Treasury. What’s changed?

    This proposal comes from the Party that fought tooth and nail to keep us all in the Better Together – Pooling and Sharing Union. The Union, Tory AND LABOUR, that advocated implementing austerity measures. Kezia Dugdals is now telling us that tax has to be raised in Scotland to deal with this …. austerity here…. but for some reason not in the ‘stay with us, we value you as an equal partner’ ……England. Not equal at all (were we ever!) just being disadvantaged once again.

    As Robert says ”Scotland doesn’t need a hike in tax it needs a fair proportion of her own revenues returned to Scotland. Or better still full control of all her own revenues and debits.”

    That makes sense so why aren’t SLab and Kezia Dugdale fighting for that? Oh I forgot they take their orders from one wee, clueless man in England. One that Kezia made public she didn’t want as Leader … her now boss. If it wasn’t so serious it would be laughable.

    I’ll just wait to hear what, John Swinney, someone I can TRUST has to say about the whole situation: The best way to go forward whilst facing so many constraints.

    @ Jack Murphy …. Great news that Moray Council has backed down Jack. Wonder why? Could it be that they were totally inundated with complaints from the electorate? If so we’ll never hear a dicky-bird about it.

  79. James Barr Gardner says:

    Scotland’s population has basically flat lined since 1950 and would have been possibly been as low as 4 million, however due to immigration from south britain, Ireland, Commonweath, Continental Europe and also refugees from wars, it’s still just over 5 million.

    Norway however has grown from just over 3 million to 5 million in the same time period. Makes you think what would Scotland be like with over 8 million of a population in 2016. So maybe not that wee after all.

    Time for everyone in Scotland to see the result of tory glory practices past, present and future, nothing there to be proud of. This is their legacy for Shire of scotland.!

    Bled dry of islanders, highlanders and children!
    Bled dry of young men for cannon fodder.
    Bled dry of our manufacturing industries.
    Bled dry of coal, fish and oil, still time to add in fracking!
    Bled dry of Scots due early deaths.
    Bled dry of our brightest young folk.
    Bled dry of truth and history.

    The Labour Party all of it, have conspired in this, and yet they still have the gall to spout out these utter fantasy stories, they are beyond truth,common decency and fairness.

    Enough is enough for the People of Scotland, vote them out!
    The quicker Scotland cuts it’s ties to this arrogant ruling elite. The better for Scotland, for you and your family and the generations to come.

    Aye Kezia as for your wee stories I don’t give a Tinker’s curse for them, you and your kind have wrecked my country, I will never forgive or forget the injustices of the Red Tory party.

  80. starlaw says:

    So labour want to levy higher tax’s, and let the councils run riot with the council tax. Return to prescription tax and student fees, remove bus passes, remove free TV licenses for over 75’s. .. Vote Labour .. its all go !

  81. Broch Landers says:


    Check out the top online story in BBC travel right now. The one with Edinburgh in it. Interesting headline. Interesting angle.

  82. robert graham says:

    I was tempted to complain to the BBC regarding this blatant party political broadcast masquerading as a news report this totally bonkers news clip on a tax change that cannot and will never be implemented this being paid for by your licence fee all free to Labour it’s like a counter to the recent TV ad in support of the SNP paid for by SNP members , it’s a little reminder they can and will use your licence fee to drown out any message by the SNP , anyway having complained to the BBC on so many occasions it’s like hitting your head against a wall anyone who has went through the lengthy process will know how long it takes for a reply and how generalised the answer is it’s like a stock reply one size fits all that always comes to the same conclusion we are right and you aint so piss off .

  83. yesindyref2 says:

    @Jack Murphy
    With an annual spend in 2014-15 of £286 million, and sitting on reserves of £31.5 million, and an expected shortfall of £11m, the answer for Moray Council is easy – dig into the reserves same as lucky people and businesses are doing. In 2014-2015 Moray increased its reserves by £3 million.

    Some of us don’t have reserves, which is of course what the council tax freeze is all about.

  84. Why pay any taxes to London?

  85. David Sillars says:

    How much extra revenue would be generated by paying the living wage that so many councils do not wish to implement?

  86. Hamish100 says:

    wasn’t the plans launched today so by teatime it is all about Cameron and the EU.

    If they were really serious wouldn’t Brown or Darling launch it!!!

  87. gus1940 says:

    Am I alone in being suspicious of the fact that BBC SNPbad at One reported positively on the latest A&E Wating Times figures?

    Does this mean that they have some spectacular SNPbad lies up their sleeves and will use the A&E Report as an argument that they are not biased.

  88. Beth Davis says:

    I know the point here isn’t to be objective, far less say something positive about Labour, but this is completely disingenuous as far as articles go. The whole point in Labour’s policy is that to get around the fact income tax has to be a blanket increase under current rules they’d give poorer families a “rebate” and therefore only those on higher wages would effectively pay it.

    You can disagree with that – it’s a pretty unpopular idea with the rich in particular – but weakly misrepresenting it by throwing out a quote about a completely different idea (a blanket increase without a rebate) is pretty poor.

    I say that not for Labour’s sake, but because I happen to think raising income tax is a good idea if we want to have progressive taxation – and the “rebate” approach is a good way around the current constraints as far as I can see. I don’t see why the SNP can’t adopt a similar policy and I hope they will. In general I’d prefer to see us taking the issue of poverty a bit more seriously rather than simply resorting to party political sniggering.

  89. Christian Schmidt says:

    > We wonder what suddenly changed their mind.

    Labour used to look at how popular progressive policy would be with the middle 100,000 voters in the 50 most marginal constituencies, and adopt/amend it accordingly.

    Now they just look at any policies to see how much it can be used to attack the Nats / feed red meat to the perceived unionist working class base.

    And note that old way actually meant quite genuine polling/focus group work and a sophisticated media operation. Now they don’t have the money (or brains) for that anymore, so they cannot even get right their attacks on the Nats…

  90. Iain More says:

    Let the Brit Nat hypocrites that are SLAB get on with it.

    I see the Brit Nat coalition presently misruling Moray Council with SLAB collusion have backed off their plan to hike Council Tax by 18%.

    What is the bet that SLAB will back off from this 1p for Osborne as well!

    I smell a bad case of galloping arse rot!

  91. MJack says:

    So do Labour also wan to increase income tax for the whole UK or only Scotland pays more?

  92. Dcanmore says:

    Labour’s very own tartan tax, who’da thunkit!

  93. Hamish100 says:

    Gus 1940

    Agree ,Bit surprised by some good news on BBC Scotland.

    Mind you maybe E Bradford could have been given a 10 min BBCSCot exclusive. Should be grateful for the 20 seconds!

  94. Phil Robertson says:

    Why ” A Penny for Labour” and not “for the SNP”, given that their volte face is as great as anyone else’s?

    If you are looking for other examples of change how about “Scotland’s bright economic future will be jeopardised by the remote and centralised policies of the common market” from Alex Salmond.

    Policies have a context in time and it is perfectly reasonable for changes to be made. You should concentrate more on the present. It is unfortunate that John Swinney’s plans for increases in the living wage and a 2% cut in local authority budgets will not increase the taxation of lower paid workers, it will cost them their jobs!

  95. Petra says:

    It’s high time the Councils cleaned up their act. I’m sure if they did so they would save millions and no doubt John Swinney is aware of this. I’ve witnessed money being wasted and heard some absolute horror stories as to what’s actually going on behind the scenes. Cutting down on the massive number of councillors would help for a start.

    How the money is being spent, down to the last penny, should be made available to us online. A bit more transparency is required, imo.

  96. A lot of people appear to believe that the SNP’s penny for Scotland in 1999 was about increasing tax.

    It wasn’t it was about maintaining the existing income tax rate.

    Brown was bribing the electorate at the Holyrood elections with a one penny cut to income tax.

    Shortly after the Holyrood Elections he reversed his one penny cut and increased income tax by two pence.

  97. willie says:

    Quite frankly the days of taking anything seriously from the Labour Party are gone. Their fiscal incompetence nearly brought the country down and now they lurch from one headline to another. We won’t raise taxes, oh yes we will.
    Well taking a penny ( or +5% on the basic rate) on every tax band is a tax that will penalise the lowest paid in our society. Then factor in a possible +20% rise in council tax and the return of Prescription Tax or a £20 fee to attend the doctor and you get even more of the picture.
    No doubt the £27 billion on Trident and the billions on foreign wars needs funded and the war mongering red Tories that are Labour are the boys and girls to fund it. Tories and Tory policies, shoulder to shoulder, it’s time that these charlatans were finally swept into history – and May is the time to do it. SNP One and Two!

  98. willie says:

    And fraud, let us not forget the rancid corruption that sits at the heart of the dying Labour dominated councils. Sweetheart departure deals for the great and good at hundreds of thousands of pounds per senior manager, sweetheart contracts to the pals of dubious distinction, and huge amounts of inefficiency whilst the workers at the bottom end get squeezed. Some of these Labour Councils who are whingeing bitterly about the bad SG cutting their cash are the very same ones who need more money to keep the sleaze pit going. High time a Corruption and Efficiency Commission was established to clean out these councils – long overdue and especially so today as Westminster cuts Scotland’s budget.

  99. willie says:

    And finally, as we sustain a crisis of affordable housing supply, how much of Labour’s +5% increased levy on the lowest earners tax band will go towards giving those fortunate enough to save 15,000 a year a give away bung of £6,000.
    Redistributive labour in true Tory style from the poor to wealthy!

  100. Mark Forrester says:

    Seems a reasonable plan from Labour.

    The rebate protects the low paid (even without the rebate the cost to those earning under 11k would be zero, the cost to those on £15k would be 75p a week).

    Holyrood have haf tax varying powers since devolution and never used them. The SNP has implemented a number of costly populist measures such ad free eye tests, prescriptions, social care, tuition fees (none of which are available in rUK) without using the svr to fund them – instead reducing spending on other public services.

    Now we face the prospect of those public services struggling even more badly. Scottish councils are to be hammered by Holyrood yet again and although the SNP have the power to ameliorate the effects of Westminster austerity by raising income tax they refuse to do so. They had a choice – play politics or use their powers to protect the vulnerable.

    This is not responsible government – you can’t enjoy one side of devolution by giving out populist freebies then refuse to pull the fiscal levers available to you to fund necessary improvements to public services.

    As a supporter of independence I find this embarrassing.

  101. Mark Forrester says:

    Cripes, I support indepependence but this website really is one-eyed and a swivelly eye at that.

  102. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Anyone who wants to see the pics from the Aberdeen get-together on Saturday past, go here:-

    I wonder who, in the Inverness area, is gonna organise a Wings get-together up there?

    Team YES Bus have a foodbank collection, in conjunction with ‘Taught By Muhammad’, this Saturday, outside Tesco in Murraygate, Dundee. Will any Wingers be there?

    Isn’t it frustrating when you bait your hook and cast, and the fish in the pool ignore your worms?

  103. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Specially the fish here:-

  104. Mark Forrester says:

    Amazing how many contributors on here have exactly the same attitude to local councils ad the Tories – claiming they are wasteful and they should dig into their reserves.

    Shameful – all to justify the supposedly progressive SNP imposing austerity on local councils. Austerity that could be avoided, or at least ameliorated, by using Holyrood’s tax raising powers.

  105. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I saw a rainbow – more than once.

  106. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The whole point in Labour’s policy is that to get around the fact income tax has to be a blanket increase under current rules they’d give poorer families a “rebate” and therefore only those on higher wages would effectively pay it.”

    Except that it fails to get around it. People on the lowest wages – particularly those in part-time work who are disproportionately female – would pay more. Progressive taxation is a perfectly respectable policy. What Labour have presented is a cack-handed dog’s breakfast that punishes the poorest hardest.

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