The magical money machine
This is amazing, readers. It’s an extract from this afternoon’s The Big Debate on Radio Scotland, in which a journalist – the BBC’s Gordon Brewer – finally gets round to asking someone from Scottish Labour how they can make the extra £500m they need to fund their tax-credits “policy” while keeping all taxes the same.
The answer… well, the answer is quite something.
(The Big Debate, BBC Radio Scotland, 6 November 2015)
.
You might have to listen through a few times to get your head round it, because that really is what a grown woman actually tried to get away with in front of a live audience.
We’ll transcribe Baillie’s comments, as it helps a bit to see the madness written down.
“They don’t need to find extra money in the sense that it’s over and above what’s existing, but they do need to find money to effect the tax cut itself, and in finding that money, so it releases a pot that we can use differently. We’ve had the accountants check over this -“
At this point Brewer interjects to point out the face-punchingly obvious fact this site’s been highlighting for a week – that if you don’t make any changes to how things are now, you don’t create any extra money.
“But you would need to find the money to implement the cut that you’re due to make, and it is that released money that we would use in a different way.”
Brewer tries again, noting once more that if you’re not making a change you get no more money and have to find the savings to fund the policy from somewhere else.
“Okay, in the case of Air Passenger Duty, let me explain that. If you take a tax cut, you’re going to have to find the money that you would have brought in, in order to carry on with delivering the services that you’re gonna deliver. By finding that money you release it, that we can reallocate for a different purpose.
We have checked this with the Scottish Parliament Information Centre, we’ve checked, y’know, one, the maths for this, we’ve checked whether we have the power, because of course you’ll recall in the Parliament [blah blah SNP BAD] We have checked, we have checked all our workings out separately.”
Brewer gave up at that point. But it’s all clear: Scottish Labour have run this past “the accountants”, they’ve checked it with SPICe, they’ve checked all the maths and the powers and they’ve concluded that to find the money what you have to do is find the money. And in finding the money the money will be found, which releases it, which proves that you’ve found it (by finding it) and can then spend it.
(Even though you haven’t cut anything and you haven’t taxed anyone. Nobody has paid any extra anywhere, but half a billion pounds has just appeared out of thin air.)
We suspect Scottish Labour may be using the same firm of accountants as Rangers did until 2012. Does anyone remember how that one panned out?
Was it Torrance that finally caught on?
She must have been reading his timeline.
Why on earth does Brewer say “it might sound an odd thing to ask you.” Its his job, its all of UKOK hackdom’s job. Scotland has an absolute right to know.
The Magical Money Tree is in fact, a Monkey Puzzle.
Does anyone think she understood anything she said?
Does Baillie work for a pharmaceutical company? ‘Cos she’s just given me a headache. Fekin eejit
Nope.Sorry. Listened to it 3 times. Read it 4 times. Still can;t get my head round it!
Baillie: ‘No, no, no, Gordon. What you absolutely fail to understand is SNPBAD!!’
Baillie saying SNP good? That if the SNP can find the money so can SLab … with who’s army Bwa ha ha ha, ad nauseam or aching sides whichever comes first.
To think shes a mother raising a daughterand running a home?
Poor girl….
they’ve checked it with SPICe
Ginger or Baby ?
Baillie could have simply said that Labour would find the money to fund tax credit cuts by cutting other service areas.
She obviously needs some coaching. It’s taken a good week to get as far as ‘no new money’, so another week might be required.
Come on Jackie, you can do it!
To quote Tom Cruise – SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
If a majority of people in Scotland are stupid enough to accept that that in any way was an answer to the question, then we clearly are too stupid to be Independent.
She is genuinely saying “whatever the SNP cut to fund APD, we will also cut but spend £440m on tax credit migration instead”. Astonished, as her ex-leader might say.
I am beginning to wonder, whether these people in Labour REALLY do not understand what they are saying. It seems they really think that by not cutting a tax, you have more money than you started with.
So dear Labour thickies to simplify matters further, imagine tomorrow you guys come to power in Scotland, OK.
1. If you don’t lower APD, then nothing changes ok? So Nothing changes. That is you have magically come into power in the Scottish Government, and say ‘NO, we won’t lower APD’. So the budget is unchanged.
2. Where then, does the extra money come from to cover tax credits?
I genuinely do think some in the Labour party really, really cannot see how dumb it shows themselves by repeating this over and over again.
It truly beggars belief. Seems like some journalists are too dumb to grasp it too, so credit where it is due to Gordon Brewer for asking the question.
I am just astonished that no other journos have questioned this nonsense. I also do wonder what on earth is going on in Labour, because this isn’t about political differences, it is just cuckoo stuff.
If thats correct then I could use her accountancy skills for my charity accounts. Using her thinking we’d be as rich as Croesus
Knew talent was thin on the ground at SLab but that Finance spokesperson would decimate Scotland’s economy if Labour were to be elected. Conning the voters is not a good look Jackie nor is it likely to garner votes for your party.
Intention to decieve writ large
After several listenings I still can’t understand Baillie’s logic. It approximates to “If we don’t cut a tax, which isn’t currently cut, then we can spend some money, which is already being spent elsewhere, elsewhere”?
In short, she became hopelessly lost in her own mendacity and forgot the purpose of her original lie while speaking.
Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive…
I have decided the best way to solve this puzzle is to play a game of “Twister”, with my grand-daughter. She representing one side and me on the other.Winner takes all.
Hope the local casualty isn’t busy.
I know!!!! Just find that money, check with the accountants, and find it, and then that releases it!
I’m glad you were listening too, Rev, cos I thought I’d finally lost the last of my marbles, then reminded myself, wait, it’s SLab, and worse its Ja Ba, she of the exponentially increasing Faslane jobs.
My Aunty Jean in Essex had a Money tree in her garden . When I visited (aged five) it used to grow a ten bob note every couple of days. I used to sit there for hours on end waiting for it to “hatch” and there would be nothing but it had grown to full size by the time I got up in the morning.
maybe The North Britain Accounting Unit has a Money tree as well?
Sounds like some Capt Jack Sparrow would come out with
@ One-Scot
“If a majority of people in Scotland are stupid enough to accept that that in any way was an answer to the question, then we clearly are too stupid to be Independent.”
Nah.
It’s just more from the same thinking that fabricated Jim Murphy’s ‘biggest party forms the Government’ textbook sluice.
That worked out well for Labour.
Baillie’s doing just as well 😀
dearie me imagine getting busted by Brewer your own pet attack dog ,whats the matter Gordon are you starting to get a conscience?
I do hope next time you are on TV you point out what a load of nonsense this is,or will you?
omg
ok they snp cut passenger duty and have to find 400 million to cover that
the 400 million CUT is invoked by snp looking to increase visitor revenue FROM THE CUT to FUND THE CUT or even better make money from
LABOUR – they had to find it from somewhere- so we hope you idiots can’t do arithmetic and we will promise to spend it for you right up until you are daft enough to elect us
OMG anyone who is daft enough to ever ever let labour run anything is sadly misguided
I weep for my people….because this is dam sophistry that is hard for geniuses to understand let alone us with a family to look after and a dinner to make – and in the end that is all we want….. we don’t want to be millionaire, or rule kingdoms, or even be famous
we only want to live, to be fair and to be treated fairly
so please anyone who reads this
PLEASE DO NOT EVER LEAVE LABOUR IN CHARGE OF OUR FINANCES
Who the heck is advising these cretins?
Whoever it is, I have a large Money Tree in my garden…
She’s had a week to come up with an answer, you would have thought she would have come up with something better than “Our maffs are good”
Absolute gibberish from Baillie.
The SNP would ‘find’ the money lost from cutting APD in the extra taxes from more tourists and jobs.
The whole point is to pay for itself and then some.
If you don’t have that extra income, you have to explain where the cuts are going to come from.
Are Labour seriously going to try and keep up this charade until next May ?
Has Jackie looked doon the back of the couch for the extra money?
She’s got as much chance finding it there as anywhere else.
eh?? What is she talking about? can I have some of what she is on!
Sounds to me like the old missing £1 routine.
If by chance you haven’t heard it
3 men order a meal in a restaurant
The bill when the waiter presents it is £30. So each hand over a tenner.
The waiter however had gone to the Osborne-Darling school of economics.
When he took the bill and receipt and cash to the till,the teller advised he had overcharged them by £5. The bill should only have been £25. He was given five pound coins and told to refund the extra immediately.
Alas the waiter was also a neoliberalist and thought he would rip the guys off.
He shoved two pound coins into his pocket and returned to the table to advise the men of the good news that the bill should only have been £27 and gave them three shiny pounds back each.
Each gent had no matter how you looked at it paid £9. Add the £2 the waiter pinched and it only comes to £29.
I got my accountant to check and he agrees.
So where did the missing £1 go
Bloody SNP stole it. Who else?
I do not think Jackie Baillie is genetically programed to make economic decisions.
Well, having listened to the recording, it’s all perfectly plain. In order to cut APD (in the short run), money would have to be cut out of the budget or borrowed (assuming that that the Scottish Government would be able to borrow in these circumstances). If Scottish Labour were the government post 2016, Jackie Baillie would make the same cuts (or borrowing) and would use the money saved (borrowed) to fund (mitigate) tax credits.
Simples.
I’m going to stop paying for my car,so I can afford a better one.
Arithmetic made simple.
Jackie Baillie goes to Greggs & buys a tray of 12 pies. She eats all of them over her lunch break.
After work, she returns home to discover someone has credited her fridge with another tray of 12 pies.
But once she’s consumed those ones over dinner, again there’s none left.
So they’re going to use EBTs?
I’m glad someone’s actually bothered to ask, but he really should have said “no, I’m not asking how the SNP would fund it, I’m asking how YOU would fund it.” Still, it’s a start.
Yoo Noo she talks absolute total bollocks.
The only money raised from the RED TORIES northern branch is from PFI.
Tootally Cloooless, yoo noo.
SLAB tried some verbal logic torture under Fundily’s Doomwatch. However, in my humble opinion SLAB’s fully customised version of basic economics on tax credits is the daddy of them all. They will get called out on this…eventually. And there is literally nowhere to hide.
I suspect the political rather than economic calculation was made along these lines: Lords boots Osborne’s policy; subsequent speculation builds he’ll have to mitigate the bulk of the impact of the cut in his Autumn Statement; in the time in between SLAB leadership takes punt on ‘fully funding’ tax credits promise knowing they will never have to and that the opposition will not come under same scrutiny as the SG. That allows them to concentrate on a ‘headlines only’ policy scream that they’ll reverse Tory tax breaks (thresholds) and SNP tax cuts (APD) without any intention of this ever being a costed and principled policy commitment.
All’s well with said non-policy approach so long as the Scottish meeja pretend they don’t read Wings. Until today obviously when Brewer broke ranks. I suspect the heat WILL begin to build on this for SLAB because the SNP held its nerve and said “we’ll wait for Osborne’s statement”
Labour don’t need to find the money, they’ll get the SNP to find it for them. Then it will be released to in effect send to the treasury.
Oh, Jackie Baillie has just made my day! I really was never the brightest at maths at school. But now she’s made me feel like bloomin’ Einstein. Thanks, Jackie… more of the same, please!
The SNP policy to reduce airport tax will leave them £125m worse off but the thinking is that the stimulation to the economy will provide at least a similar amount in return through growing the economy (in other words increasing GDP). A growing economy and tax take would allow targeted benefits to assist those most affected by changes to tax credits. As it seems likely that Osborne will now phase these changes it would allow time to fine tune any mitigations.
By not reducing the tax one would not be any better (or worse off) than at the moment. It certainly wouldn’t release £400m to pay for a new tax credit scheme.
To do this taxes would have to rise. Presumably council tax (with a cut in central government funding) and income tax. This might very well provide the money required but none of this will particularly stimulate growth because the people being helped will also be paying more taxes.
I don’t know if Baillie is being disingenuous or the whole thing bends her brain too and she was trying to make the best of a bad job.
I suspect Brewer knew she was talking nonsense. I suspect Baillie knew she was talking nonsense.
I think what worries me me most is that she seemed to know what she meant.
At this stage it would have been more plausible if they had said, they bought some magic beans off some shady wizard with a pointy hat.
Just listened to the STV & BBC Scottish news, no mention of the Aberdeenshire by-elections. It must be a big swing to SNP,!!!!!
Onwards
Are Labour seriously going to try and keep up this charade until next May ?
Yes they are because they know it works, they are going to go at what has proven to be a competent government who has made us the utter jealousy of england
ie frozen council tax, prescription charges, uni fees – and they are going to attempt to destroy us
and no matter how good or bad the SNP have been….they can win based on perception
that is why we still need to get out on the streets and make our case
because much as we understand what was said in that interview you take me 100 people in glasgow and ask them what they saw from that interview
these people were never gonna be easy to defeat but we will, by the truth, because truth means something to the people, it means nothing to labour, but when we hold fast to the truth we can and will fight a million times……
In an insane asylum, three patients are up for release. The Doctor decides to give them an intelligence test. He turns to the first man and asks, “What is three times three?”
“274,” he replies.
The Doctor asks the second man, “What is three times three?”
“Tuesday,” replies the second man.
The Doctor turns to the third man, “Okay, your turn. What’s three times three?”
“Nine,” says the third man proudly.
“That’s great!” says the doctor. “How did you arrive at that?”
“Simple,” says the third man. “I subtracted 274 from Tuesday.”
Its as bad as Dunky Hothersall’s explaination of the same on his labour hame site, complete and utter “Bampot economics”.
Has anyone explained to labour its not an expenses sheet their filling in, so creative accounting is not required.
Is she then proposing to change no taxes in order to not spend the money she doesnt know the location of in order to fund the cuts from somewhere else to let then spend more on something else and a different somewhere else while at the same time hoping nobody says, “whit?”
She seems to be saying, “we don’t know where the money’s coming from. John Swinney, if he cuts APD, will have to find some money to replace that source of tax money (aside: Swinney hopes that cutting APD will produce more revenue which will pay for the cut- he might be right or wrong) once Swinney has identified the money that will replace the tax money APD brings in, we will use that money for the tax credits. If he doesn’t identify the replacement money, our policy falls flat as we cannot identify that money ourselves. We’re hoping he’ll do it for us. If he does, he will be in power so we won’t get to do our thing until 2021 at the earliest. If he doesn’t, and we do get into power we won’t be able to do anything because Swinney won’t have identified the money”.
Have I got that right?
Baillie always reminds me of Family Guy’s resident genius, Peter Griffin, especially in the episode where he loses alll his bones and becomes one massive brainless blob. To be fair sometimes Baillie is funnier.
I am going to tell HMRC that I have paid my tax because my accountant said I have. I will then say the money is there but you cant find it and if you need further help I am going to put them onto Labours accountants!! Then I am going to spend the money I have already paid and that’s going to keep the economy going as I have used it twice!! Is that the just of Labours policy!!
It’s all Alex Salmond fault! He said he would write Labour’s budget and now Jackie thinks that all Labour budgets must be written by the SNP.
This is Clintonian Triangulation with a twist. Labour are saying our budget will be written by the SNP. We will rely on John Swinney to find the money. When he finds the money we will not spend it APD we will spend it on tax credits.
I’d thought I’d gone thick! But I hadn’t she was just bullshitting……The usual open her gob and wurds come spewing out that don’t mean shit….What a crowd of total numties SLAB are. Boy are they going to be thinned out in May.
There is this cartoon where the head spins in a blur…..
Makes perfect sense to me nurse
Will there be custard with that or ice cream (nom nom)
Thanks for the transcription Rev, i simply can’t listen to these sewers.
You wrote:
“Scottish Labour have run this past “the accountants”, they’ve checked it with SPICe,”
Yes but what one – Ginger, Baby, Posh, Sporty or Scary?
I know where the Labour party is going to get the money for reinstating tax credits, they are simply going to visit all the penny trees in Scotland and chase away all the kids and pick up the money. Problem solved! Vote Snp Snp in May!
John Swinney could have some fun with Labour around the 1st April He could say he will reduce the health budget in order to fund the cut in APD. Money Found! Labour would then have to say we will reduce the health budget to fund tax credits.
Umm . . . Sorry but if a joiner cuts a length of wood 2″ (50.8mm) short, it’s fucked!
Baillie and Slab know exactly what they are doing here.
This is Slab sophistry and spin of rare vintage.
They continue to hope the politically disengaged will pick up the specious sound bite promulgated by their tame media in Scotland.
It is lazy desperate politics and brings shame on our democracy.
Labour do know that their time in charge of BBC Scotlandshire is coming to an end they do dont they ?
just watch as the narrative switches from the BBC in a desperate attempt to push the Tories and steal the Labour right,could we have witnessed the first assault.
It makes no sense for the tories to go after us but they could put the final nail in the Slab coffin if they come second and when it comes to the Tories or Labour i think we all know where the BBC will sit,i wonder if they will use UKIP to split the Labour vote like they did in England,it might work lol
Though i am not a fan of the idea of a Tory opposition the same could be said about Labour ,i guess we have to have one of them and it might be better to have the tories so we can roast them as Labour frankly are becoming an irritation to the debate yea lets get the puppet masters into the dock that is the opposition in the Scottish parliament.
And no i didnt forgot about you wee wullie just figured you were irrelevant to everything.
I would say well done to Gordon Brewer for finally asking the question but being this idea is so bonkers I don’t really think the MSM could have covered up this one!
You know, there are actually people who vote Labour.
No joke!
That’s the best thing I’ve heard for ages. You need to admire her commitment, she must know she talking bollocks, but she presses on, never missing a beat. Astounding.
O/T
More trouble ‘t mill.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34751471
Corbyn aide Andrew Fisher suspended by Labour Party
40 minutes ago
From the section UK Politics
Image copyrightReuters
Jeremy Corbyn’s senior policy adviser Andrew Fisher has been suspended from the Labour Party pending a report by its ruling body.
He had faced calls for his expulsion after suggesting people should back a Class War candidate in May’s election instead of Labour’s candidate.
Nearer election time parties will need to produce a manifesto. I’m looking forward to Baillies description appearing for public consumption.
In reality, reversing the benefit cuts make sense and I’m sure the Government are looking at it.
The money spent recirculates in the local economy and will find its way back to Government(s).
Had Baillie said something along those lines, she could have gotten away with it. Instead she tries to be “clever”.
That worked out well!
Baillie demonstrating here that the main benefit of a private education is the absolute belief that you know your arse from your elbow when you obviously don’t, and that when you speak you make sense.
Take away the private education and what is left is a clone of James Kelly; an idiot who disgraces the Scottish Parliament.
Can you imagine being a respected Scottish journalist & writer and falling for the (absolute and obvious) rubbish Labour in Scotland`s ‘big hitters’ like Jackie Baillie etc are regularly spouting? I mean, if the Union was more important to you than day to day running of the country then I might just about be able to comprehend your madness.
But, but…Jackie Baillie? Surely there`s a cut off point?
Surely?
Whatever about how appallingly embarrassing this is for SLAB and indeed Labour nationwide, it is doubly embarrassing for the Corporate Media.
It’s the BBC and the other UK corporates who must pretend that all is well and that nothing untoward is happening to the decreasing numbers of peple willing to swallow any rubbish.
They know perfectly well that more than half of Scotland is laughing at them at this stage, and people like me in neighbouring countries are blogging it over here so the story is spreading.
It’s a disaster for the BBC and the UKOK Corporate Media.
“but they do need to find money to effect the tax cut itself, and in finding that money, so it releases a pot that we can use differently.”
Maybe they’re going to have the country have a mass rummage down the back of the couch?
Maybe polish the shoes for pocket money?
collect kooloopop bottles out of hedges is a good one that’ll easily net a few bob.
Meanwhile by not cutting the Scottish block grant by £167 billon, Labour will pay for the full renewal of Trident without any impact on welfare, health or education, thereby allowing them to scrap Trident which is what they want to do and is the reason for them renewing it.
No matter what nonsence Labour in Scotland come out with the supine Scottish broadcasters / press corps will not challange them
It’s a “Ballieponzie” scheme.
OT
Complete disgrace in the Herald, and it’s not anti-SNP. Look up article “Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn’s top policy adviser suspended”, what a vile photo.
Standards just don’t exist in that rag.
Why don’t the Tories magic money out of thin air and leave tax credits alone. Oh! That’s right they are evil and like to starve the over populated serfs.
Labour on the other hand are stupid and can’t think of any way to raise revenue to combat the austerity agenda that they were in favour of in the first place.
Labour say they will just copy the Tory economic plan. Then they say they will copy SNP economic plan. Thank god the Lib Dems dont have an economic plan because Labour, bereft of any ideas of their own, would just copy it. Who will vote for Labour? Seriously, who?
Let us examine in more detail what Baillie has to say.
Although that boil on the dog’s erse really really needs bursting..
Did anybody clap?
No matter what nonsense Labour in Scotland come out with the corrupt Scottish broadcasters / press corps will not challenge them
The fact Kezia or any of the other inadequate accounting unit haven’t been hauled in-front of a bbc camera to explain to the nation this eureka moment regarding tax credit mitigation tells it’s own story, it’s just the usual Labour spin & they have nobody among their ranks clever enough to convincingly pull off the lie in front of a TV camera while being asked awkward questions…
Bullshit baffles brains as my auld granny used to say.
It’s apparent that Labour have realised they’ve made a massive blunder with the APD claims but are unwilling to admit it out loud as it would be ruinous for them. So they’re keeping going with it as they can’t really do anything else. Maybe they hope we’ll eventually get bored and just go away.
SLab had a genuine chance here with tax credits to put the SNP on the back foot and they’ve blown it big time. What a disaster, it really is. As Nicola said, it’s la la land. Major league buffoonery.
This sort of stuff is a gift to the SNP, we should keep pressing them on it, it’s making them squirm. There are stilll hours of fun to be had winding them up on twitter about it. Have fun folks 😀
G H G at 6.46 pm
We loved that! They can take criticism but being ridiculed cleans them out faster than Flash.
frogesque@7.28.
I think you mean the Scottish measurement 50mm and a baw hair.
The Red Tory northern branch selling a granny near you.
yoo noo.
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=kV0Ou_4i7ww
Is it only politicians, TV presenters and guests that wear poppies as I dont see any ordinary punters wearing them even in Edinburgh the most UKOK city in Scotland
I heard this.
Being an evil cyberrobot with correct programming my radar immediately flashed up a giant red turd warning.
Mr Brewer asked exactly the right question. So credit where credits due.
If you didnt have the right programming you might have believed JB.
Thankfully due to our excellent education system not many will.
Cutting APD is a GOOD move for the economy and brings Scotland up to a more level playing field with rest if world.
Dont vote labour they are stupid. #Endof
There has been an over exposure of Wackie Jackie on TV and Radio this week. Could it be that Kez may be considering an early bath? After all Jackie could add some weight to the position and we know she has her finger on the button unlike Jeremy.
Exclusive: Labour’s plans revealed. Scottish Labour are promising to spend the £8 million raised from the 50p top rate of tax on the EURO lottery tickets to plug the gap in their spending plans. Jackie Baillie said in response,”It’s a rollover weekend, what could possibly go wrong”.
If JB could do magic tricks, they would look like this, and some people would pay serious money to see her perform the last one.
Class!
Chipps Cooney on America’s Got Talent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcRavNTgqT0
TBH the last time I heard a conversation like that I was visiting mental patients … “Aye, the monie’ll be in yon cucoo’s nest …”
You guys are being a bit mean about this policy. It seems pretty obvious that the extra £500m that will accrue after the £250m tax cut can easily be spent on Labour policies. I hope none of you can count by the way. I don’t get on with people who can count.
It does explain one thing, who it is that briefs oor Kez before she try’s to talk economics.
Interesting air traffic controls report for all SLabour unionistas raging away at whatever they say is SNP bad now.
http://nats.aero/blog/2015/06/tax-reductions-are-expected-to-drive-demand/
The aviation community has long argued that having the highest flight tax in the world makes the UK less competitive than our European counterparts. At NATS, we have always been clear that what damages our customers, also damages us.
A 2013 [1]PricewaterhouseCoooper study claimed that scrapping APD could not only pay for itself, but may add an immediate boost to UK GDP of 0.45% in the first 12 months, averaging at 0.3% for the following years through a boost in exports and tourism.
If a P6 pupil wrote that as an answer to an arithmetic question, it would get 0/10, see me after class.
And this woman proposes that we elect her to run Scotlands finances???
I would really like to see her debate this with Swinney 😀
Richard and others , your understanding is the same as me , it’s total Fcuk-wittery.
Slab are looking to raise £450m to mitigate the tax cuts which , thanks to Labour abstaining ,we’re on track to be implemented in April 2016 . This may now be delayed and/or cut reduced or phased Meantime Naebody knows exactly it’s happening.
The Scotland Bill and any powers are looking like being wishywashy and phased in over 2017/18
FFS that’s 2 or 3 years away !
KD and JB , a right pair o smart Alecs decide to announce to anyone who will listen that they will find the £450m that might be needed.
And the best they come up with is “When JS tells us where he will find £125m to offset APD reduction , we are home an dry”. Eh even then that’s only £125m
SNP / JS sits tight and at the last minute SE 2016, announces ” under current financial constraints from WM we will have to delay any reduction in APD for a further 12 months ”
So there we have it Slab think that the sole purpose of Holyrood is to arrange damage limitation on Tory cuts from WM , cuts that Labour did not oppose. If there is not enough funds in the Scottish budget ….. Nae worries just raise Income Tax.
When is someone gonna ask Slab “Run it past me again … you did fight tooth and nail proclaiming we are Better Together ?”
I suspect they became so excited with the idea of “saving our bacon” on tax credit cuts they thought everyone else would feel the same and not question it.
Ma Heeds done with it, the MSM are really so piss poor and useless.
To think there are people out there who read their rags as if it was gospel truth.
Thanking our Lord saviour our Rev Campbell for his enlightening scriptures.
10 4
Over an out !
I suspect Scottish Labour are using a certain blogger as their accountant. Ah well.
If it worked for GERS it must work for the Scottish Labour money tree.
? Oops, there goes, another money tree. ?
@heedtracker
Really, didn’t you notice the “nats” part of that URL? Clearly it’s a site written by vile cybernats!
Classic Labour at it’s finest, Deflecting questions and distracting with SNP bad. If I was a Labour supporter I would want to know exactly where the money was coming from before I went around shouting at the SNP. All this talk of “pots” why not talk properly stop trying to confuse the electorate and say we would take money from A to pay B simple.
If we don’t make our Jackie unemployed in May we will be failing in our duty as sensible human beings and ("Tractor" - Ed)s to Scotland you know it makes sense vote SNP,SNP in May.
What’s Scottish Parliament Infomation Centre?
The BBC are putting a lot of effort into promoting Wee Ruthie at the moment. Okay, so that was her former employer, but I’m sure that the forthcoming Scottish Parliamentary Elections might just have something to do with it!
SNP / SNP until the job is done.
yesindyref2 says:
6 November, 2015 at 8:48 pm
@heedtracker
Really, didn’t you notice the “nats” part of that URL? Clearly it’s a site written by vile cybernats!
They’re probably a bit more aware of regressive APD taxation that red and blue tories. Although twitter red toryboys ranting away APD’s a middle class, the weirdos.
And as our imperial master blue tories piss away at least another two thousand million quid , because they’re such great fiscal economists n shit.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/06/eurostar-sell-off-national-audit-office-report?CMP=share_btn_tw
Baillie’s real answer of course is very easy:
“Well Gordon, if we mitigate the tax credits we abstained on rather than voting against, then the people of Scotland will have £450 million more to spend. Since they’re the people who are short of money they will spend it rather than save it, putting £450 million straight back into the economy of Scotland (yes, prevent it coming out, but it’s easier this way). Kind of like the Quantitive Easing we gave to banks when in power at Westminster, rather than to the people who would spend it and boost the economy.
The Scottish Government will then collect that extra economy benefit via indirect taxation and the increase in jobs and profits, in income tax, National insurance, VAT, Corporation Tax, fuel duty, the revenues we voted against being in the Scotland Act when the SNP put forward an amendment to the Scotland Act to try to get FFA – Full Fiscal Autonomy – for Scotland – which we didn’t want because we’re Labour, even if we’re not really Scottish Labour but UK Labour.
So Gordon, the nett cost will be a lot less than £450 million, and we’ll have done a good thing, except we won’t because we voted against getting full powers and revenues for Scotland which in fact means we would have had control of tax credits and universal credits anyway so we wouldn’t have to mitigate it, we’d just stop it happening.”.
Hmm, there’s something wrong there, can’t just put my finger on it …
Janet says:
The BBC are putting a lot of effort into promoting Wee Ruthie at the moment.
I noticed that, though it was Ruthie’s extended bid to get a job in London before 5 years of not raising the Tory vote got her canned.
@Heed
“George Osborne described the eventual sale as a “fantastic deal for me and my pals that exceeds expectations. I’m orf to Bermuda for me hols, in my new swanky villa.”.”
Urgent request for all Scottish Labour branch members to look down their sofas asap.
Find and release the money!!
O/t had a big discussion with my brother who earned three times what the prime minister earned about what Scotland would do after independence and he reckoned that the SNP would split up,though I can’t see Ruth doing very well out of any scenario.
Don’t forget to vote SNP,SNP
It seems somewhat apt hearing Baillie chunder on that my hard cover copy of WBB arrived today. Now has pride of place on the bookshelf. Just reinforces why we need to keep moving forward. Keep it up Rev.
@bookie from hell “What’s Scottish Parliament Infomation Centre?”
I was going to say “google it”, then I did and it’s a surprisingly good question, as there’s no central page or “about” page I could find. Best I can come up with is that it does this sort of thing:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentary-business.aspx
Jackie Baillie showing her very poor grasp of figures yet again.
I really hope she gets booted out of her seat by the “tens of thousands workers at Faslane”. That would be one of the best scalps for the SNP to take and would be really ironic.
However, she would probably still get into Holyrood on the list which will be just fine as she is just terrible for Labour. Talks complete rubbish all the time and just lies blatantly and continuously.
It will be interesting to see the carnage over the next few months as all the SLab MSPs and ex MPs will be fighting to get on these Labour list seats.
It is possible we making a mistake in underestimating Jackie Baillie.
It is quite possible that the lady has the requisite £500 million stuffed down her drawers in loose change.
Has JB had elocution lessons? Whatever the nonsense she speaks, it is articulated in beautifully modulated tones. After May, she could be offered a post on Radio Scotland among friends, a sort of commentator at large.
bookie from hell:
A group of – I assume – politically neutral stattos that MSPs can call on to help them back their shit up, although as MSPs usually want to make a political point they don’t always get what they are looking for. I remember in Dennis Canavan’s autobiography for example he moans about them not providing the stats he wanted on a particular issue…
Jet Jockey @6.59
See the labour candidate in one of the Aberdeenshire by elections got only 196 votes!
I can’t listen to Baillie argghhhhh.
Come on Dumbarton, tell that bag of wind and piss to GIRFUY.
It is the greatest of irony that jb still is a Labour party representative in the greatest movement for social change in Scotland in the past 90 years and will surely be swept away in the social revolution that has set Scotland on fire.
Remember to vote SNP,SNP.
My heart sank, listening to that. How, in the name of the wee man (as we used to say) did Scotland ever manage to get politicians of this calibre?
Who was gullible enough to vote for Baillie? If that woman is returned to parliament in May then perhaps we actually are ‘too stupid’.
The APD cuts and the Tax-credit cuts are two completely different things which are being mixed together by SLAB to confuse the electorate and promte their own ravaged image (sic).
J Swinney wants to cut the APD without compensating it with cuts from elsewhere in his budget. Full stop.
He reckons by doing so he will encourage more travel to and from Scotland and thus bring in more customers and income, job creation and ultimatly more than enough money to compensate the original amount cut by APD.
———————-
The tax-credit cuts are still in the pipeline from Osbourn and may or may not be implemented in their proposed form.
Thus as Nicola (praise the Lord ;-> ) said, the SG will wait and see what WM puts on the table and first then, will come up with a credible and costed policy to help alleviate the cuts.
yesindyref2 says:
6 November, 2015 at 9:09 pm
@Heed
“George Osborne described the eventual sale as a “fantastic deal for me and my pals that exceeds expectations.
Socialism for the rich. Vote Blue tory/red tory.
Check out that train at St Pancras in rancid G photos though. It makes every train in their Scotland region look like Thomas the Tank Engine.
Proud Scotsbuts must be so proud.
Another Great effort by The Rev. Stu.
Got the impression that Gordon Brewer had read your previous article.
Circulate this article far and wide. Expose the Lies of The Red Tories
We are the winners, we are never going to give up 2 referendums 3 referendums as long as it takes we will not give up.
Vote Snp,snp.
Slab will be dipping into the oil fund next
@Clydebuilt
I get the impression most if not all journalists read WOS.
Scottish accounting unit gets to work.
I recall, with great fondness, the old days on WOS, when Major Bloodnok was a regular btl contributor. But Time waits for no man – he has found new pastures, and seldom moves among us now…
🙁
But I will never forget one of his most heartfelt, genuinely moving comments, where he reported glimpses of an appalling nightmare in which Jackie The Baillie was giving him ‘come hither’ eyes.
Ah, happy days!!
🙂
dakk says:
6 November, 2015 at 9:28 pm
It is possible we making a mistake in underestimating Jackie Baillie.
It is quite possible that the lady has the requisite £500 million stuffed down her drawers in loose change.
Ruby Replies
http://tinyurl.com/pqk2w79
Another Beryl Cook painting featuring her favourite model.
It’s called ‘The £500 million Flasher’ from the series entitled ‘Find the Money’
Jackie will not be going to work at the BBC she has promised to go from modelling part-time for Beryl Cook and becoming her full time model.
Charles mc Very witty comment.
What the hell has she been smoking ?
Ian Brotherhood:
How weird. I think I may have just posted a painting of
Major Bloodnok’s nightmare!
We are going to win our independence, no matter what it takes it’s just a fact. The sooner the rest of the UK recognise it the better and moves on the better. England will be Greece without the sunshine, but you reap what you sow.
While we are on about the GER’s figures I thought some would be interested in what the actual Barnett Formula’s workings are. I was clearing out my folder of notes and came across this description from when I was researching the subject. Fear not it is in plain English for those like myself with modest maths skills.
I understood everything she said. It’s just that what was she was saying was a complete and utter pile of nonsensical bollocks.
A shower of pish like a schoolkid trying to bullshit their way out of not doing their homework…. and she gets paid for doing it!
Realising her own immense ridiculousness, she then chucks in a nice wee default “SNP BAD” at the end there. Par for the course. We are the route of all evil, after all.
Over and over and over again, “Scottish” Labour are attempting to win over an electorate by chastising them for exercising their democratic right. We’re not naughty children. We are grown adults, who threw you idiots out like you deserved. Ages ago. And we keep repeatedly doing it, so maybe get the fucking memo, idiots.
These are just utterly appalling, scumbag, lowlife people and that’s the end of it.
@Ruby (10.20) –
🙂
There won’t be much sleep in Castle Bloodnok tonight, one way or another.
Is this a convoluted way of commiting to PQE without actually admitting to it?
There are only only two acceptable explanations for JaBa’s gibberish:
1. She was sloshed at the time of the interview
2. She really has not got the faintest clue
Ok, there may be a third, the combo.
Depressing, to say the least.
The problem arises because she does not want to admit that either policy must be paid for out of cuts elsewhere. There will be cuts to fund APD reduction/aboliton. SG thinks that it will generate new money and so those cuts can be restored (or not made if they choose to gamble it will come in very quickly or cover a temp shortfall through borrowing) They might very well be right. I think they are
Lab are saying those same cuts will generate that same money: and will be used in a different way. A way that will not produce additional income at all.
What they are trying to do is pretend there are not cuts, but it is pretty clear even in this clip.
Will Kezia have had her head in her hands listening to that pish or maybe she would been punching the air shouting,,, “Brilliant Jackie. They just don’t have an answer to your sheer amazingness, Well done, we got them on the ropes!
Just doesn’t make sense. I tried to put a few lines together here but Jaba just flumuxed me!
Is this what they call “derivatives” – clever financial engineering can create money so we don’t have to pay taxes at all. Seems like the stupid SNP don’t understand modern finance.
Didn’t the FM say that Dugdale had earmarked the money Baillie wants for Education!
So Labour will spend the money twice although there is only 1 little pot! Is Baillie on medication?
John Nicholson should’ve nailed JB today, and Brewer had, unwittingly or not, teed-up the opportunity for him to do so.
I listened to it as it was happening. JB knew she was in a tight corner, perhaps a bit sooner than she expected, but we know that participants are given fair warning about the ‘set’ questions, if not perhaps the actual running-order. Fair-do’s.
With that in mind, she did well to deliver her pish in a fairly steady stream, with that ubiquitous cheeky smirk in place throughout. Then Gordon Brewer hands over to John Nicholson, who sounded mildly aghast, and faux-stammered something about her comments being ‘Orwellian’.
I remember watching John Nicholson on the Scottish Schools Debating circuit, way-back in the late 70’s. The guy does not do ‘stammering’ or ‘aghast’. He is a brilliant speaker, and has been steeped in political mass-media all his adult life.
He knew, before the question was even aired, what JB had to do, but he didn’t call her out on it. If we were in a properly functioning democracy with an astute MSM, it would be Brewer’s job to keep pushing, but Nicholson knew that Brewer wouldn’t do it (and was perhaps surprised that the latter had given Baillie a relatively rough ride) – it was down to JN to use any opportunity he had to nail JB on specifics. He didn’t. The chance was there, but he let her off by commenting on her comments (as would a pundit, or listeners) rather than doing his job as a politician, which is to find a diplomatic way of saying ‘You are a fucking liar, and I demand that you explain why you’re lying before this discussion goes any further.’
In that sense, today’s ‘Big Debate’ was a pretty accurate microcosm of the pattern which dominated the run-up to IndyRef1, and persists – the SNP has overwhelming support among the Scottish masses, but seems incapable or unwilling to reflect the tenor of that support. ‘We’ (and that means indy-supporters generally) want someone to grab the likes of Baillie by the throat (metaphorically-speaking, of course) and demand some respect – we cannot and will not be treated like imbeciles. When we have scenarios like today, when a seasoned political player like John Nicholson appears to back away from confrontation with a shameless (but brilliant) dissembler like Baillie, the frustration can only intensify.
If yesterday’s FMQs is a worthwhile measure then Nicola Sturgeon is, perhaps, sensing this before her colleagues, but if so then they must be brought up to speed – what happened today in ‘The Big Debate’ was embarrassing for anyone who values language as a means of communicating ‘truth’ and/or politics as a means of expressing popular sentiment. Baillie abused the former, and John Nicholson seriously misjudged the latter.
In simple terms, the SNP members who represent so many of Scotland’s citizens at all levels of government, must up their game and speak to power in a manner befitting the genuine groundswell of passion which placed them there.
Simpler still? Gloves off.
It is total madness.
She is saying that if the SNP government would just kindly say where the money is coming from but then Labour get in, then they can go ahead and carry out those savings suggested by the SNP and use them to fund the tax credit compensation but without reducing APD.
Not only is she abrogating responsibility to the SNP to nominate what a hypothetical Labour Government would cut but she seems to be oblivious to the whole notion that a cut in APD might not, if things go as hoped by the SNP, require any other cuts at all.
So to summarize, she is expecting the SNP to nominate areas for cuts when the SNP do not believe they will need to make any, so she can then use that money for tax credit compensation which the SNP do not consider may even be necessary.
Ooooh! Baaad SNP for not naming those cuts and letting SLAB play their silly games.
Looks like a victorious SLAB (god help us) will just have to think of cuts elsewhere to pay for it themselves.
After listening to that I am sure somebody slipped me a micky! Or the last packet of baccy I bought wasn’t baccy!
@IanB
Agree entirely. Already posted the other day that JB was let off, because the one definite way real funds could be found to mitigate Tax Credit cuts would be to dump Trident, which Baillie voted FOR.
surely it must eventually dawn on the journos that they are propping up the wrong herse.
It seems to Fudimidily wrong from start to finish.
This woman is just brazen in trying to get away with that garbled garbage as being a solution and to then attack the credible SNP, just shows you the depth of contempt Jaba and Labour has for the people of Scotland.
This bag of crisps has 20 calories less than usual so I’ll eat 5 of them and save myself 100 calories.
@Ian Brotherhood
I don’t see it that way. SNP play nice, sensible and reasonable, and let the others destroy themselves. I think they’re doing a good job, and the more it works, the more hysterical the anti-SNP mob are getting.
On the Herald, I’ve seen decent Unionists getting fed up with the approach.
well said Ian Brotherhood.
@Chic McG –
You’ll have noted that Brewer, at a later point in the debate, implied that Labour’s apparent chaos was, in fact, an indicator of ‘healthy debate’, contrasting that with the SNP’s apparent intolerance of dissent.
Again, Nicholson’s response was weak – ‘Should we apologise for being united?’ (paraphrase)
There’s no excuse for someone with Nicholson’s pedigree being affected by such crass spinning/misdirection. He KNOWS it’s spin, and Brewer knows he knows, and they all know…but somehow they all assume that the audience DON’T?
That’s what really hacks folk off, and it’s why these self-serving charlatans will fall. (e.g. Foulkes, this evening…total face-palm material – this character is ‘Scottish’?) They should consider themselves fortunate that they don’t live in a time when Treason was a capital offence. Many of them – and they know who they are – are well-guilty of it, and have been for a definite, measurable period.
@IanB
” Foulkes, this evening…total face-palm material – this character is ‘Scottish’”
But he is doing it debilitatedly.
Wonder what Brewer could do without an editor screaming down his earpiece.
I think you’re all being terribly unfair to Slabjaba…you ignorant separatist swine have no real understanding of what an economic genius Slabjaba is and how Slabjaba economics works. You’ve got to enter Slabjaba World and in Slabjaba World 500 million people work at Faslane* and when she’s Finance Minister they’ve all promised to chip in a couple of squid each cos they love Jaba and Slab so they do, so there’s your 250 million squid right away. And anyway, Slabjaba has asked the Scottish Parliament people all about this and they all told her it was ok, so there!
And as for that Brewer character, how dare he even think to perhaps maybe ask Slabjaba to explain herself! She is far too important for that kind of nonsense and anyway 500 million Faslane jobs* depend on her.
(*Source: The Daily Rancid – Slabjaba World’s authoritative journal of truth and authors of the Sacred Vow)
I apologise for miss-spelling John Nicholson’s name in previous comments.
I should’ve dropped my haitches!
Okay, in proper John King style (love-ya mate, good-bye wink) now getting coat…
John Nicolson v’s George Foulkes?
Seriously?
See WOS Twitter, right now.
TASTY!!
Sorry if this is or has been explained about savings fro APD
I also listened to this program, and heard some numpty try to tell me that she had done the maths, yup the maths, sorry it’s math and no you didn’t ask anyone TO DO THE MATHS,
You may have asked someone to do the arithmetic, that is count for you, but trust me anyone who can cut an orange into segments, then reassembles the orange and has more segments that they started with is either a fool or a liar, ether way why do s labour always walk into stupidity.?
Thank fuck the polis is Scotland are all stupid and the NHS are in melt down, cos if they weren’t they might vote labour like there granny’s did out of a sense of obligation to their betters!
Like so yesterday!
The astounding thing is she actually used the word embarrassing to describe something other than her performance.
Of course that was when she was resorting to “SNP bad” to try to deflect from her ridiculous utterings.
FFS Rev, is it not perfectly obvious they have to find the money in order to find the money that will be available when they find the money that will be used when they find the money that was to be used to find the …………………… catch up for God’s sake – it’s simple!!!!
Off shore EBT’s anyone??
Now, had Gordon Brewer simply spoken to her in references she understood, much as a teacher does to a young pupil.
Jackie, if you have 10 cakes and you eat 4, how many cakes have you left?
“6 cakes”
Good, well done. Now, if you have 10 cakes and you don’t eat any cakes, how many do you have?
“Well Gordon, it’s a very unlikely scenario, but I think the answer is 10”
Excellent Jackie, you’re doing well. Now, if your friend Nikki has 10 cakes, then she sells 3 cakes which gives her enough money to buy another 5 cakes, how many cakes will she have?
“Hmmm, well I know she doesn’t eat cakes. *Mumble, chew pencil ……….is it 10 cakes?”
No Jackie, try again and remember how we talked about adding and subtracting.
“Can I run this one past the accountants?”
No Jackie, his has to be all your own work.
“Hmmmmmmmm………………11?”
No Jackie, the answer is 12.
“I was going to say that, I knew that one. It was Nikki’s fault, she was distracting me”
Jackie, Nikki is not in the room.
“Just because she’s not in the room doesn’t mean she can’t distract me. It’s not fair, she’s everyone’s favourite.”
Now now Jackie, lets get on with this.
So, if you have 10 cakes and you want to be able to have 12 cakes so you can give 2 cakes to your friends who are hungry, how will you do that?
“Gordon, firstly, I would not be giving my friends my cakes. They can buy their own”
No Jackie, just imagine that you have to.
“……..nope, I’m struggling with picturing that Gordon. I mean, who gives away good cakes in this day and age??? Remember, I only have 10”
Ok Jackie, imagine you have 10 cakes and you want to have 12 cakes, how will you do this.
“Ah, that one’s easy Gordon, I’ll just take them from Nikki. Did I pass?”
*image fades with Gordon Brewer looking down at notes and shaking his head slightly sadly, silhouette of Jackie furtively reaching across to side table to grab an éclair.
Jackie Ballie has strong support from the local press in the Dumbarton and Helensburgh area and is a regular feature in them.
Often shown as saving local services from the clutches of the evil SNP, while deflecting from the failures of the local Labour run council.
She will be a hard one to shift as people and press believe the 12,000 fraudulent figure and regularly repeat it.
I saw her in the local ASDA in Dumbarton, she didn’t look a happy chappie, might of been cos she couldn’t take a taxi from the till to the front door of the shop, to another waiting taxi to make her home.
One only need look at Jackie Baillie’s home town of Dumbarton to see in all it’s dishonour what decades of Labour rule delivers.
The once thriving town is now at the bottom of every economic and social indicator. The decline is palpable withca town centre described as one of the most run down in the whole of Scotland.
However, after a lifetime of Labour,last year’s Westminster election totally reversed the sitting Labour candidate’s vote of 62% with a 40% swing to the SNP.
With Jackie having had her majority machetted over the last two Hollyrood elections to a slender 1,600 votes in 2011 it does not take a rocket scientist to recognise that she is gone – totally and utterly.
Against this background its fairly obvious why the lady will make every outrageous claim she can. But the voter know bettet and will say so.
She obviously went to the same school as my pal.
If you have lusted after a £70 outfit but really can’t afford an outlay of £70 , when it is reduced by 50% you rush in and buy it thus saving yourself £35. You then have £35
( which you didn’t have in the first place) to spend on something else!
Forget APD, it’s a distraction.
During the indyref there were two re-occurring memes from SLab which need to be considered when assessing their priorities. Firstly, their contention that Scotland is not socially or politically distinct from England and secondly their repeated claims of a something for nothing culture at the heart of SNP support. The second point is something regularly bemoaned by zoomionists who believe nats are all drug addicts and benefit cheats.
If a unionist party or coalition takes control of Holyrood in May then, I believe, their priority will be to align us with the situation south of the border to bring the Jocks back into line. So:
Goodbye to free school meals.
Goodbye to concessionary travel.
Hello to prescription charges.
Hello to student fees.
Hello to NHS privatisation.
Another round of tax cuts for the rich.
So that, I suggest, is where SLab intend to find the money for their “top-up” scheme – from children the old and the sick. Coincidentally, or not, the same groups now being targeted by SLab in East Renfrewshire.
Talking about dodgy arithmetic is a distraction from the damage SLab would inflict on Scotland.
I think what she was saying was “We trust the SNP to come up with a detailed & fully-costed proposal for cutting Air Passenger Duty and if we come to power we’ll copy their sums.”
At least she didn’t mention they would also fund 1000 more nurses than whatever the SNP promised.
Bugger (the Panda) says:
6 November, 2015 at 6:08 pm
The Magical Money Tree is in fact, a Monkey Puzzle.
Panda, Panda are you mad
Our figures add up SNP bad
To add to my post at 8:54am:
As long as our focus is on APD and the vagaries of SLab statements and tweets then SLab are in control of the conversation on tax credit top-ups, and they have had control for the last week, obligingly assisted by the MSM.
The SNP and supporters need to stop commenting on vague statements and tweets and start attacking Labour on specific issues around cuts to services to get them to say whether they propose to make the cuts/introduce fees.
Get them on the back foot and defending their position. If we don’t then they are going to gain ground.
Jabba was back on air this morning digging herself even deeper in the same hole.
Is it not strange that the Scottish Labour spokesperson on any topic should be the only one of their MSPs who voted with the the Tories and LibDems in favour of retaining Trident.
As to the SPICe she consulted in her costings that must surely be Posh Spice!
Listened to it and I’ve got it now.
Here’s a bucket with some money in it.
I take half of it out – then I put it back in and now I can use the extra left over to buy all sorts of stuff with.
Where do I sign up to be one of Labour in Scotland’s financial gurus?
JM says:
If a unionist party or coalition takes control of Holyrood in May then, I believe, their priority will be to align us with the situation south of the border to bring the Jocks back into line.
Ruby replies
I totally agree with that. If you want to know what Unionist parties will do at Holyrood just look at what happens in England.
I quite often think that the SNP in Government have been detrimental to the Indepedence movement if that makes sense. If Scotland had had 10 years of Unionists parties ruling at Holyrood the YES vote would have been 110%
What I am saying is the SNP have been too good for their own good!
People in Scotland have been protected from Unionism. Better Together but only if the SNP are in power at Holyrood.
@Ruby 10:44am
I sometimes think that we could do with a spell under the unionist parties, just to remind some of how inept they are. That however, this side of independence would be a mistake not only economically but constitutionally. They would collaborate to lock us into union and ensure another indyref could never happen.
The ultimate indignity: a written constitutional lock in to a union without a written constitution.
Labour in my lifetime have never been economically competent.
The the £40 million cost of Building the Holyrood Parliament building that turned into £450 million plus, the Edinburgh Trams which now costs including interest payments a billion plus.
Then we had Gordon Brown’s record as chancellor, £5 Billion a year tax raid on pension fund dividends, scrapping the 10p tax band which saw tax doubled for the low paid and pensioners, 75p increase for pensioners.
But then it isn’t just increased tax on high earners that Labour is looking at,here in Fife, we had the Labour council leader David Ross who wants to end the council tax freeze so that he could raise extra money raised that could be spent on local services.
He tried to sell it to the people of Fife as costing only the price of a packet of crisps a week
Well the the last time I heard that arguement was from the Labour Government in the 1970s when it introduced prescription charges it told everyone it will only cost 20p a week and nobody would miss 20p a week.
What was the cost of prescription charges when the Scottish Government abolished them?
And don’t lets forget what the standard excuse from Labour would be if it gained control at Holyrood.
Which is the SNP Scottish Government has left behind them such a financial mess that Labour is having to clear it up.
So…the answer is: “…ask John Swinney. ” Brilliant.
@ Ken Waldron
Actually that really is one of labour’s better ideas.
From Main Article:-“You might have to listen through a few times to get your head round it, because that really is what a grown woman [Jackie Baillie MSP,Labour] actually tried to get away with in front of a live audience.”
She’s made Labour’s position crystal clear,as did Donald Rumsfeld former US Secretary for Defense:-
“There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.” 🙁
SIMPLE.
It might have saved the nation a lot of time if Brewer had just said,
“I’m glad you’re not in charge of my finances.”
I like the prefatory moment when Gordon Brewer signals that he is about to stray off the reservation:
“It might seem an odd thing to ask you this [ie, it might sound strange me actually challenging you] given that you’ve bandied about all these numbers [ie, numbers the media would routinely assume are correct because they undermine the SNP], but…”
O/T Enjoyed reading the £30 TV resurfacing as a restaurant bill in this thread.
It’s a very nice little puzzle: the contradiction between what we know to be true in the real world and what the numbers appear to be saying.
It’s clearly got something to do with decimal fractions, but I’m no good at maths. In my defence, my maths teacher was a Labour Party stalwart 😉
Erm … maths for LABOUR Dummies 101!
One plus one does NOT equal 43!
NOTHING taken away from £X millions equals £X Millions. Well what do you know Baillie … erm … NO CHANGE! … DOH!
Jackie Baillie educated at St Annes School Windermere. Private education obviously didn’t do her much good, especially her maffs.
Oh good grief!
Bailie has went straight past car crash to train wreck.
This has been blindingly obvious from the very moment Ms Dugdale launched this moronic policy. Worst of all is falsely raising the hopes of those who will be affected and all for the usual petty politicking. The money isn’t there now and it certainly won’t be in 2020.
The budget is shrinking NOT growing and telling flat out porkies is NOT fecking helping matters.