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A nation of hostages

Posted on November 22, 2017 by

The efforts by the Scottish Tories to pull off some frankly ambitious shenanigans over today’s Budget continued overnight in increasingly bizarre fashion.

As with the Poppy Scotland funding, the party appears to be quite openly punting the line “We knew all along that this was possible and the right thing to do, but we deliberately punished Scotland for not electing enough Tory MPs”, in what can only be reasonably interpreted as an attempt at blackmailing future electorates.

The Scottish media, meanwhile, is doing its best to sell the issue as “a plague on both their houses”, holding the Scottish Government and UK government equally culpable for the mess. So let’s see what we know.


1. As a reaction to budget pressures, all the main Scottish parties pledged at the 2011 Holyrood election that if elected they’d amalgate Scotland’s police into a single force. The SNP, Labour and Tory manifestos all proposed the move.

2. Neither the Tories nor Labour offered any proposals regarding how the new single force would be funded or how VAT issues could be averted.

3. The UK government undoubtedly did warn the Scottish Government in advance about the VAT implications, but Scottish ministers either decided they were bluffing, or hoped to force them to back down in the face of public opinion, or they calculated that the savings would significantly outweigh the losses in VAT.

(The last point certainly seems to be the case – the amalgamation is claimed to have saved £130m a year, compared to the annual loss through VAT of around £25m, and none of the opposition parties challenged those figures at the time, or indeed since.)

4. Very late in the day (in June 2012, just months before the new Police Scotland came into being), the Unison trade union proposed a funding model which would have split the cost of policing 50/50 between the Scottish Government and local authorities, and thereby theoretically possibly get around the VAT problem.

However, this was widely held to be unworkable for a number of reasons, chiefly that it would have required 32 local authorities to agree the exact division of a police bill of around £500m a year between them, all with their own competing agendas, demands, local pressures and political axes to grind.

(The impossibility of the situation would have been greatly amplified a couple of years later when local government fractured and several authorities left COSLA.)

5. Throughout this time the UK government – which had been in office since 2010 – had it in its power to take the measures that it’s finally taken now and exempt Police Scotland from VAT (by means of a Section 33 order) like the UK’s other forces. Under successive Prime Ministers it chose not to do so, and the Scottish Tories regularly attacked the Scottish Government for “playing petty political games” by asking.

While Scottish Labour, of course, just blamed the SNP for everything as usual.


So what the evidence suggests is that amalgamating Scotland’s police forces into one was by any rational calculation the right thing to do in any event – saving over £100m a year even after taking the VAT ramifications into account – and that the Tories now accept that an exemption was merited, just as the Scottish Government had claimed all along despite the Tories rubbishing the idea for five years.

Voters are being asked to accept that the UK government was only able to understand this point when an extra 12 Tory MPs were elected in Scotland.

It also appears that despite admitting it made the wrong decision, the UK government inexplicably does NOT plan to refund the £140m in VAT paid over the five years Police Scotland has been in existence. A story claiming otherwise in Politics Home has since been deleted:

And news outlets are reporting that the cash will stay in the Treasury’s coffers as – it can only be surmised – a punishment to Scotland for not electing Tory MPs sooner.

So what the Scottish Tories are describing as “clearing up the SNP’s mess” is in fact the UK Conservative government doing what it should have done in the first place, but also keeping £140m of Scotland’s money that it stole in the meantime and demanding that Scots should be grateful that they’re not stealing any more.

It’s an audacious line, we’ll give them that.

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    1. 22 11 17 13:58

      A nation of hostages | speymouth

    267 to “A nation of hostages”

    1. ClanDonald says:

      “Vote Tory to protect Scotland from the Tories!”

    2. Brian McGowan says:

      I wouldn’t even give them that.

    3. dakk says:

      Likely the backdated £140m will be coughed up at some future opportune time due to pressure from our indispensable ‘Scottish’ Torys


    4. ian gould says:

      so what has fluffy been doing oh yea

    5. geeo says:

      Lets see how the supposed labour supporting media in Scotland report this story.

      They can hardly praise the Scottish tories, but they will not want to admit the SNP were correct all along…!

    6. John says:

      Where has our secretary of State been , is he not supposed to fight in Scotland’s corner , why after four years of fighting for this has the SNP never been listened to . Is it a case of if Scotland doesn’t vote Tory they get nothing!, that is some sort of democracy , I thought we were supposed to be better together !

    7. Ken Hunter says:

      I’m not surprised by dear Murdo,s reaction. What has Fluffy being doing for all these years.

    8. Northern Islander says:

      Still at least the estimate of oil reserves has mysteriously gone back up to 20bn barrels…

    9. TheWasp says:

      I can’t wait for this to be pointed out on ALL Scottish media…..Aye Right.

    10. David Caledonia says:

      The tories as usual blaming everyone else for their lies and double standards, how these people can sleep in their beds at night considering all the misery they cause, is beyond the comprehension of any fair minded person

    11. Capella says:

      They’re The Nasty Party as Theresa May once confessed. And their media lackeys revel in this kind of guilty pleasure. Schadenfreude, or sadism?

      “Sadism” specifically involves the subject deriving pleasure from personally inflicting the usually physical but also just as likely emotional, social, economic pain on another, whereas Schadenfreude is defined merely but the observance of usually only the humiliation or embarrassment of that other.

    12. Bob Mack says:

      So. Twelve Scottish Tory MP,’s, managed to do what the Scottish people and Government have been looking to have done for some time.

      In other words. The wishes of Scotland meant nothing, but the wishes of the 12 Tory Apostles was sufficient intervention to change the Government’s mind.

      If you doubted that the Tory Party hated Scotland or were out for revenge, you just had your eyes opened wide.

    13. handclapping says:

      The Brexit decision by the Supreme Court that Scotland was not a nation but a region meant that the regional forces exemption applied to the Scottish forces. It was bugger all to do with Fluffy and the 12 apostles

    14. TheWasp says:

      I’m so angry. Just so bloody angry.

    15. Artyhetty says:

      It would be laughable if it wasn’t so serious.

      The UK London government have basically held Scotland in such bitter contempt for having the audacity to elect an SNP government. The contempt for Scotland, is endemic among British Nationalists.

      Now they think that a few scheming tory MPs who work for T.May but are hired out to do Scotland down, (and who some of actually literally seem to just sit on their arses), claiming any credit for NOT punishing Scotland with their own nasty policies will be believed?

      People are easily conned, but in this case, I think most are going to see this ploy for what it is. An attempt to blackmail Scotland if they continue to vote for anyone but a Britnat party in Scotland, will result in UK London government punishing Scotland particularly economically.

      Thing is, it’s been going on for over 300 years. I suppose that cancels out my being positive and people not being conned though. 🙁

    16. mr thms says:

      Production of oil and gas has increased substantially since 2020 when The Economist had an article with the headline ‘Running on fumes’. The price of a barrel of oil is up (Brent oil is current over $60). Oil companies in the North Sea are receiving a tax rebate from 2015 to 2020. It is worth billions. The Chancellor said in his speech 20 billion barrels of oil remain in the North Sea basin. He grudges giving the Scotland’s Police and Fire services a £140 billion refund?

    17. Sunniva says:

      Nicola Sturgeon raised the police bill only last week with May in talks that were described as ‘constructive’. Typical of Tories to claim credit.

    18. mr thms says:

      Sorry for the typo. I meant to say ‘Production of oil and gas has increased substantially since 2014’

    19. cuilean says:

      Scotland! Vote Tory…. or else!

    20. Doug Bryce says:

      This tactic is seen in the Scottish parliament on daily basis – opposition loudly parties blaming the SNP for spending cuts which fundamentally originate from Westminster austerity and reduced barnet consequentials.

      However it is worse than that – they expect Scotland to put up income tax to maintain identical levels of spending.

      Ruth Davidson loves to claim Scotland is highest part of UK. In reality this is only because her own party actually reduced income tax / stamp duty for England!

    21. Arbroath1320 says:

      So finally the Scottish emergency services can stop paying VAT but they will NOT receive a penny of the VAT they have “incorrectly” been paying for the past five years because to do so would be a step too far for Philip “I speak to aliens because there are no unemployed people in Britain” Hammond.

      As for those peeps wondering about what Scruffy Fluffy has been doing over the past five years about this I can confirm, from a contact inside the <de. Scottish office Westminster office that he has been carrying out his on the job traini9ng as tea boy (Junior Grade) initially to Porky but carrying on nowadays to Feartie.

    22. geeo says:

      Sure i read somewhere that the SG were planning a legal challenge re VAT rebate.

      Nicola meets TM.

      Suddenly it is all change…!


    23. Les Wilson says:

      All this shit about ” we will all share in great new economy after Brexit”

      What that really means is they the will use Scottish assets to keep the Uk going”
      This pooling and sharing is a one way street that leads to Westminster stealing all we have, for use down their own neck of the woods. What’s new eh?

    24. peekay says:

      A wee FoI request into the treasury for all communication from these 13 regarding the VAT issue might not be a bad idea.

    25. doug says:

      This tactic is seen every day in the Scottish parliament. Opposition parties blaming SNP for cuts / problems which originate from Tory austerity.

      The expectation is that Scotland will put up income tax if it wishes to maintain existing spending levels. Which of course is not how devolution is meant to work.

      Ruth Davidson loves to shout that Scotlands is highest taxed part of the UK. However that is only because her own party recently reduced income tax threshold and slashed stamp duty.

    26. geeo says:

      @doug bryce.

      Actually, there are NO circumstances which make Scotland a higher taxed place than England.

      Council tax is MUCH lower in Scotland.

      Prescriptions cost £0.00, a tax break here.

      2 examples of Scots paying less OVERALL TAX.

    27. FTDMail says:

      No other words for it. Murdo Fraser is a stupid prick.

    28. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Posted on previous thread but as relevant here:

      100% on the money@geeo says at 1:10 pm on Led by Donkeys.

      “Re VAT. Does he not realise that by claiming the Scottish Tories ‘persuaded’ him to allow VAT reclaim, he is ADMITTING that not allowing it previously, was a purely political point scoring exercise ?”

      Shout it loud and share widely folks.

      The Tories deliberately withheld money from Scottish Emergency Services (the same ones that their compliant BritNat Media tell us daily are in crisis and underfunded) out of spite and more importantly BECAUSE THEY COULD

      And as long as Scotland remains shackled to Westminster THEY CAN CONTINUE TO ACT THIS WAY.

    29. Les Wilson says:

      Great speech by Ian Blackford, no holds barred.

    30. Colin says:

      All this about being a *National* Police Force for years having to pay VAT
      Correct me if wrong but the PSNI is a national force…..and they have never paid VAT

    31. Robert Peffers says:

      Ach! Ye canna keep a guid Tory doon.

      Not unless you have a silver bullet in your gun in one hand, a silver cross in your other hand, it’s daylight hours, and you come equipped with a sharpened stake and a great big mallet in your other two hands.

      As most Scots only have two hands the feat is almost impossible.

      Maybe we could get the proverbial Bruce spider to lend us a few of its hands?

    32. Clootie says:

      why do so many in Scotland vote for the Tories? ( I know why the bigots do…I mean normal people)
      Are people so driven by self interest (short term gain)

      What about their children and grandchildren?

      How many first time buyers can purchase a 300,000pound house or above to maximise stamp duty benefit?
      I wonder how many offspring of the rich will become first time buyers in London now.
      The money going into the Oxford/Cambridge/Milton Keynes corridor is the same old campaign to suck money South and keep London prices soaring…after all you can buy an estate in Scotland when you retire and sell your box inside the M25.

      Vote Tory and make the wealthy wealthier, vote Tory and continue to ensure all weath is located in the South, vote Tory and ensure development cash is plowed into Manchester and Liverpool (better rail links will continue to pull people and cash South)

      Dublin is now one of the top 4 investment centres in Europe. It is likely to be a major candidate for pulling talent and investment from London…does anyone think they would be in that position under London Rule?

      I don’t mind if those in the South driven by greed and self interest wish to pull down their nation (England) but I object to being forced into the madness with them.

      A party Millionaires shaping our future. The Labour politicians at least wait until they leave office to become millionaires (…or collect the reward for services rendered Tony)

    33. ronnie anderson says:

      Are,nt you the lucky peoples getting to watch the budget Bbc benidorm keeps losing the signal , mibbes am the lucky wan lol.

    34. Les Wilson says:

      The Tory MP for Stirling, knocking the SG and laughing.
      What were people in Stirling thinking voting for duffers like this.

    35. Ken500 says:

      The £2Billion. £1.5Billion limited to capital payments. Not needed. Can’t be spent on essential services which the SNP Gov would want to do. What a Westminstef racket.

      Over four years. £1/2Billion a year. The Scottish budget cut overall.

      Scottish Block Grant cut 10% a year since 2010. Now cut £3Billion a year.

      The UK NHS cut £4Billion a year since 2015 to 2000. Gets £2Billion. (Total £10Billion less). No Barnett formula consequential. No money for Scotland.

      Spending on Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident and Heathrow. All a total waste of money £30Billion a year.

      City deals mean unionist councils have more money to waste. Other places miss out.

      Independence can’t come soon enough. Vote SNP/SNP.

      Scottish Gov funding cut in real terms. Although Scotland raises more tax revenue pro rata £10Billion. Increase £4Billion. From £50Billion to £54Billion.

      Another Tory con.

    36. Jack Murphy says:

      Les Wilson said at 2:31 pm:
      “Great speech by Ian Blackford, no holds barred.”

      I think this is the piece when the Leader of the SNP Group at Westminster responds to Hammond’s Budget— at 14:18:23

    37. Famous15 says:

      Serious question! Is Nadine Dorris sober? Bedfordshire deserve an answer.

    38. jean campbell says:

      thank you – you have made this very clear for us

    39. Alex Clark says:

      What is what this is all about and how has it came about?

      HMRC VAT Act 1994 Section:33 enables certain bodies to recover VAT on costs relating to non-business activity and included all of Scotland’s Police forces when they were ran by local government.

      The link above goes on to describe in 2.1 Who are Public Bodies?

      Included in a long list are of course local authorities i.e councils as we call them and police authorities. The Treasury judged that once Police Scotland became a single entity it no longer qualified to be in this list.

      The important part though is Section 2.4 of this notice.

      2.4 Can I be added to the list?
      The Treasury has powers to add bodies to the list by means of an order. Treasury will consider applications from bodies that meet both the following criteria. The body must:

      1. undertake a function ordinarily carried on by local government, and
      2. have the power to draw its funding directly from local taxation

      If you meet both these conditions and you wish to apply for inclusion, please contact us initially.

      To exempt the Scottish Police and Fire Services from VAT it only required item 2. above to be amended or removed.
      It wasn’t though of course as there was no appetite for it from the Tories until now that is in a feeble attempt to make Ruth and her misfit MP’s look good.

      Instead it makes them look bad and in particular Davidson and that waste of air that is Mundell who could have pressed the government years ago on this in support of Scotland.

      He most certainly is the Westminster governments mouthpiece in Scotland rather than Scotland’s mouthpiece in Westminster.

    40. Famous 15 says:

      Serous question! Is Tory Bill Grant of Ayr in his right mind ?

    41. galamcennalath says:

      The SNP/Scottish Government should do a press release “Nicola Sturgeon finally forces Theresa May, under threat of legal action, to hand back Police Scotland’s VAT “

      I fear we might see mor of this stick and carrot approach from WM. “Scotland. Vote SNP and we will punish you. Vote Unionist and we will reward you.”

      The next Scottish Parliament election is due to be held on Thursday 6 May 2021 and the Unionists intend to take a majority. They need to because their Union probably won’t survive another majority pro Indy parliament. Campaigning is well under way!

    42. Robert Graham says:

      o/t – and from a previous thread , and directed at Artyhetty

      Question have you actually read what I posted ? .

      Did you understand it ?

      Please point to the line I am condemning the SNP government ? .

      You appear to misunderstand the trap set by the Tory government, eventually the SNP will run out of money if the Tory government continues to heap cuts on yet more cuts, it’s a trap that will eventually come to a head, the question I asked was the same as Bernadette Devlln posed ,will they eventually say Stop and go head to head with this government . It was a question, not an attack on our government . There is a difference .

      If this appears a bit cheeky to bad .

      You Started it Friend ,have a good day now and you’re attention is much appreciated , now feel free to take a ticket and stick it up yer arse .

    43. Spikethedee says:

      “But”, the Tories will say, “Erm… SNP Bad.”

    44. geeo says:

      The thing about Scots is, they may not support independence, but they LIKE devolution in general.

      When it comes to a choice next year, indy or post brexit mega austerity, with Scotsgov unable to mitigate everything, we only need 6% to change to voting Yes.

      No wonder they are bricking it !!

    45. Jamie Thom says:

      Move the last two paragraphs to the start. Just in case anyone doean’t read too far past the headline, or something!

      “…what the Scottish Tories are describing as “clearing up the SNP’s mess” is in fact the UK Conservative government doing what it should have done in the first place, but also keeping £140m of Scotland’s money that it stole in the meantime and demanding that Scots should be grateful that they’re not stealing any more.

      It’s an audacious line, we’ll give them that.”

    46. Swiss Perspective says:

      It doesn’t compute in the first place that if police and rescue services have to suddenly pay VAT just because they merged.

      But the kind of clientelism on display here is very dangerous for so-called British democracy. At the level of state philosophy it suggests that the rights and powers of the devolved parliaments have not been sufficiently constitutionally anchored. At the level of common sense it demonstrates that Scottish interests are best served when all tax-raising powers are placed in the hands of Holyrood.

    47. Legerwood says:

      Abolishing stamp duty fir first time buyers on houses up to £300,000 is purely aimed at the London housing market. However, I am quite sure Ms Davidson and co will start agitating for Mr McKay to do the same in his budget knowing full well it would decimate the SG’s revenues from stamp duty.

      They will also do it knowing full well that few if any first time buyers in Scotland buy houses at that price. But that wont stop the Tories and Labour using this against the SG and by extension against the people of Scotland and their welfare which would be adversely impacted by the loss of income for services that such a policy would bring about.

    48. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I have no idea who this Andrew Morrison is, but his blithe assertion that today’s budget crumb to Scottish public services somehow makes for “a stronger Scotland” is patently absurd, as Stu properly indicates.

      A Scotland which is so pathetically dependent upon UKGov whims like this is far from being stronger. Any 5-year old waiting for a sweetie handout could tell Mr Morrison this obvious truth. Is he really that stupid, or is it us he takes for fools?

    49. Robert Peffers says:

      @Les Wilson says: 22 November, 2017 at 2:54 pm:

      “The Tory MP for Stirling, knocking the SG and laughing.
      What were people in Stirling thinking”.

      I dunno, Les but I do know this as I just cut & pasted from the National just now:-

      “GLASGOW East MP David Linden is the hardest-working new Scot in Westminster, figures show.

      Linden was the only new SNP member of parliament elected at the snap vote this summer.

      Data from shows he has put more pressure on the Tory Government than all other new Scottish MPs combined in the first five months of service.

      The organisation, which monitors parliamentary contributions, found Linden has submitted 233 written questions.

      This compares with 217 from the 11 Tories, six Labour members and three LibDems put together.”

      That rather knocks the idea on the head that it was Tory MPs that forced the Westminster Establishment of the combined Tory, Labour and LibDem MPs from Scotland who did so.

    50. HandandShrimp says:

      The oft repeated lie was that the Treasury had to levy VAT on the unitary services it is EU rules.

      Clearly the truth was simply that Scotland didn’t vote Tory enough and therefore was taxed as punishment.

      There is only one way to deal with politicians like that at the ballot box and it isn’t to vote for more of them.

    51. Andy-B says:

      “Colin says:
      22 November, 2017 at 2:36 pm
      All this about being a *National* Police Force for years having to pay VAT
      Correct me if wrong but the PSNI is a national force…..and they have never paid VAT”


      Looks like the PSNI pay very little if any VAT.

      “1.9 Value Added Tax

      Income and expenditure is shown exclusive of Value Added Tax, which in most cases
      is recoverable from HM Revenue and Customs, in accordance with the Value Added
      Tax Act 1994. Irrecoverable VAT is charged to the relevant expenditure category or
      included in the capitalised purchase cost of non-current assets.”

      Contained in the March 2016 Financial statement, its a PDF file page 65 and onward contains account figures.

    52. Paula Rose says:

      ScotsPolFed @ScotsPolFed

      Many thanks to you and colleagues for your listening ears. Great result.

      Addressed to Ruth Davidson.

    53. Ken500 says:

      The combined Police Force to share data and resources was going to save up to a £Billion.

      Many personnel left the Police after the Tories put up their pension contributions considerably. Mr Sweeney was going to mitigate the increase but Westminster was going to take measure to prevent it.

    54. schrodingers cat says:

      congratulations to nicola for forcing westminster to abolish the unfair and anti scottish Polis Tax

    55. Macart says:

      A punishment exercise. Nothing more, nothing less. Vote this way, or else. Any other questions regarding Tories? We’re all clear on what they represent and who they are?

      They do NOT do partnership and they do NOT play well with others. Next time (and there will be a next time) one of them stands up to wax lyrical about partnership between nations, ‘single’ UK markets and leading with us, you know what that means by this point.

      Dae as yer telt. When yer telt. (loose translation)

    56. Andy-B says:

      HandandShrimp says:

      “22 November, 2017 at 4:04 pm
      The oft repeated lie was that the Treasury had to levy VAT”

      Handshrimp the British government, if they wanted could reduce VAT to 15% the minimum set by the EU. They have an option of applying one or two reduced rates, no lower than 5%, to certain specified goods on a pre-approved list.

      Further reduction of the VAT rate, including to 0%, is also allowed but only for the goods which were taxed at that rate before 1991 and since then.

      Although the UK charged 0% VAT on domestic fuel bills in 1991, the Conservative government introduced a VAT rate of 8% in 1993. This was later lowered to 5% under Labour. Under the EU rules, this is now the lowest VAT rate possible for British domestic fuel bills.

    57. Andy Bonnar says:

      BBC still reporting we are getting a refund.. Wonder how long before thats removed

      What were the other key announcements?
      Freezing alcohol duty apart from an increase in duty on high-strength white ciders
      The price of 20 cigarettes goes up by 28p and by 41p for 30g of rolling tobacco
      A promise to fund a pay rise for nurses if one is recommended by an independent panel
      Refunds on VAT for Scottish emergency services

    58. schrodingers cat says:

      how many 1st time buyers in scotland buy houses worth between £140-300k

      apart from london, i doubt there are many outside london.

      nicola should just announce she will match this 300k figure, the lost of tax to holyrood would be neglegable, this was hammonds point anyway, little help to most people, he could have said 500k for all the difference it will make to the treasury

    59. call me dave says:

      I Blackford SNP: as the representative of the 3rd party in the UK Gov was excellent at replying to the disgraceful Tory budget proposals.

      We have a really good set of hard working people in Westminster who will add experience and weight in an independent Scotland and a Holyrood Parliament when the time comes.

    60. David Mills says:

      Is my memory playing up or have the SNP not been trying to get this done since forever this doesn’t show what can be achieved by a handful of Tories but the Total contempt Westminster shows Scotland on a day to day basis and this never leveling of VAT across the UK is long over due and nothing to crow about.

    61. mr thms says:

      It’s not a big deal

      The average price of a house in Scotland is around £145,000
      The average price of a house in the U.K. Is around £275,000

      If Scotland increases the band from which the rate starts to £150,000 it would only require an increase of £5000. Considering the increase in inflation since Brexit an adjustment is needed.

    62. Giving Goose says:

      The Scottish Government need to start playing a different game.
      They need to start threatening to take actions that fall out with the current constitutional set up.
      Provoke a confrontation. Provoke a storm of protest from Unionists.
      Start making life difficult for London.
      Scotland should start dictating the narrative.
      Let’s face it, what is there to lose? Our freedom? We don’t have it.
      Our budget? Well that can be turned around and thrown in their face if they tried it.
      London are taking the piss out of Scotland.
      We need to start standing up for ourselves and not playing by the rules.
      It’s not as if London is playing by the rules.
      Scottish Tories of all colours, need to be called out for what they actually are.
      They are betraying Scotland.

    63. Highland Wifie says:

      What is it with these unionist politicians always claiming credit for things they had nothing whatsoever to do with? They lie, they cheat, they obfuscate all in the name of party politics.

      Are any of them prepared to stand up for Scotland and our people? Do what’s right for a change?

      Even the golf clubs had to do battle in court to get their overpaid VAT back. What a total waste of resources to line the pockets of a few lawyers. Cheaper to do the right thing in the first place.

      As someone asked earlier, why do people vote for them? It’s beyond me. We need to cut free and soon.

    64. Ken500 says:

      So despite the hype Scotland’s budget cut in real terms again. Thanks for nothing once again. Vote No you get nothing. The Tories digging their usual hole. Trying to bury the facts.

      Scotland is getting ready for Independence. A central bank, currency, talks with EU Officials. The way is being pathed.

      Even Brewer gets it. He was complaining. A first? Fluffy trying unsuccessfully to paper over the tracks.

      Tory rating falling.

    65. schrodingers cat says:

      just less than 38k houses sold in scotland in 2015 and 2016 worth 140-300k (about 35% of total)

      using an average of 250k per house, and assuming 25% are 1st time buyers(big if) is roughly

      9000 x £2000


      £18 million is a drop in the ocean for holyrood, and the real figure is probably a lot less

    66. Alba Jock says:

      Well done again Rev.

      I have a real issue with this! Why oh why do we stand for the arrogance with the Tory bar-stewards. I’ve had enough if the Scottish Government and our MP’s don’t start telling them where to go I may vote for the Raving Loony Party next time.

      Call them for what they are, liars, cheats and ass whippers for WM

    67. Ken500 says:

      The way to increase house buying in the south is to build more houses and cut student debt.

      It was reported Neil that in 2010/11 in England 40,000 affordable houses were built. 2016/17 5,000 were built.

      In Scotland 1/12 of the population (pro rata) the Scottish Gov is building/renovation 6,000 affordable homes for rent a year. 17,000 being built privately. 23,000? coming on the market recycled 46,000 a year.

    68. Ken500 says:

      The stamp duty reduction in England will not help 1st time buyer. Second or third who could have made a savings selling. To invest. Will it be on buy to let?

      Scotland already had a scheme for its time buyers. Less student debt. More house built (pro rata). Mr Swinney adjusted stamp duty no so long ago.


    69. Pentland Firth says:

      Tory government dog training class for Scots curs. Obey your master and wag your tail affectionately, and you may be tossed the occasional bone or biscuit. Disobey and growl at your master and you will be beaten.

      I’m not a dog, but if I were I’d bite Hammond and his obedient thirteen Scotch whelps.

    70. Robert Peffers says:

      @Giving Goose says: 22 November, 2017 at 4:35 pm:

      “The Scottish Government need to start playing a different game.
      They need to start threatening to take actions that fall out with the current constitutional set up.”

      Oh! Get real! And stop with the SNP BAAD! rant.

      In the first place the SG, as a DEVOLVED government, (whether they like it or not), are, per se, part of the Westminster Government.

      They Holyrood Government will remain so, no matter which political party are in power at Holyrood. Thus Holyrood must represent all the people of Scotland and not just the SNP supporters or the wider YES movement supporters.

      This is quite a different matter of the SNP as a political party with an accepted main aim of regaining Scottish independence from the KINGDOM of England and thus ending the bipartite United Kingdom.

      The SNP do not want to separate the country of Scotland from the country of England – they want to end the Union between the KINGDOM of Scotland and the KINGDOM of England. i.e. Scotland the country AND Kingdom on becoming independent AGAIN will not be leaving behind a still United Kingdom for the three other countries in the present United Kingdom are already a UNION called The Kingdom of England.

      Until that United Kingdom disuniting happens the Holyrood Government are part of the UNITED KINGDOM GOVRNMENT and they must legally play by that governments rules.

      You can see the difference when you look how Alex Salmond now acts since he is now, for the first time in decades, free to act as an SNP card carrying member instead of being an elected representative of a devolved government.

      Look at the dictionary definition of devolve:-

      devolve:- transfer or delegate (power) to a lower level, especially from central government to local or regional administration.

      synonyms: delegate, pass (down/on), hand down/over/on, depute, transfer, transmit, commit, assign, consign, convey, entrust, turn over, make over, sign over, give, part with, let go of, leave, cede, surrender, relinquish, deliver.

      In essence a devolved power is a power retained and if Holyrood doesn’t play by Westminster rules Westminster can legally reassume the devolved power – we do not want to give them that chance … but maybe you do.

    71. msean says:

      Tories being Tories again. Same auld stuff.

    72. Davy says:

      If you want to observe pure panic , look at fuddly (Mundels) eyes as he got interviewed by Gordon Brewer this afternoon.

      He was desperate to avoid admitting Scotland was getting screwed over their budget and NHS funding. Even Brewer mentioned he was avoiding answering specific questions.

      Tories, it does not matter if they are Scottish or from the rest of the UK, they will fuck our country everytime.

      Lowlifes to the core.

    73. twathater says:

      Put this on previous thread more apt here

      twathater says:
      22 November, 2017 at 4:14 pm

      Just watched politics Scotland , I know , I know , where Davy twitchy haunds wis explaining that the Baaad SNP SG will be given money 1.9 bill to spend but basically only on things that the great wastemonster arseholes deem worthy. When asked by cringe brewer if the 3 billion that the ENHS were getting was Barnetised , twitchy took great delight in telling brewer that the 1.9 billion the SG maybe get will include everything.

      This is the thin edge of the wedge , they are doing the same thing they done with the DUP bribe , we have decided that it is not Barnetised so feck off sweaties.

      Twitchy also stated that any relaxation of public sector pay awards ,e.g. nurses ,police ,firemen will also have to come out of the maybe 1.9 billion

      The glorious tolies aligned with their compliant pals liebour and the beeeeb are really challenging Scots to suck it up

      The only way the SNP SG can win is to stop mitigating all the austerity these bastArds are forcing on us , force the people to face the TRUTH , make them realise just how much these despots despise us and our country

      Make them aware that the ONLY way out of this incompetent clusterfuck of brutish nationalism where only the rich are valued and the poor can die is to become independent

    74. velofello says:

      “How do you solve a problem like a Tory?”

      What to say about their current attention-seeking behaviour – poppies, Vat charges on public services? You can laugh/scoff at their schoolboy stupidity; get annoyed at their deceit, and the media broadcasting for providing them with uncritical publicity. Despair that the media provides a micro-second of publicity to list MSP ( 7 times a loser?) Murdo Fraser. And maybe Ruthie just happened to be passing by PoppyScotland premises yesterday complete with camera crew,and popped in to congratulate herself, and them on their Libor fine monies award.Oh and a PoppyScotland director regrettably omitted to inform that he is a director of Scotland in Union.An unfortunate oversight in his comprehensive CV.

      But then there are issues with the Scot Tories of sectarianism,pornography, travelling folk, football,non-disclosure of interests.Tories at Holyrood have become like a TV sit-com, as the viewers awaits the next gaffe, lie, ill-researched data, from the Tory cast(e?). And of course back-up entertainment is provided by the Ruthie’s supporting cast of desk.
      banging, head nodders.

      And finally,

    75. gus1940 says:


      Only 5 Dugdale stories in today’s on-line Herald – what a pathetic effort at trying to be a newspaper.

    76. Ken500 says:

      £1.1Billion of the £2Billion has to be repaid. .

      £2Billion over four years. £1/2Billion a year?

      Most £1.1Billion+ ? has to be spent on Capital projects. Not essential services as the Scottish Gov would like.

      Scottish Gov cut £230Million. Plus the rest mismanaged and misappropriated.

      Illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud etc. £Billion. Oil & Gas tax 40% .Cutting exploration and production since 2010. Losing 120,000 jobs and £Billions. More Oil & Gas imported. Putting up the UK deficit and the balance of payments. Putting up the debt.

      Hammond and the Tories are right ignorant, incompetent. So are Labour- unionist abstainers. They don’t want the poison chalice.

      Even with the VAT rebate the Tories got Scotland absolutely nothing. Vote No get nothing.

    77. Street Andrew says:

      A very thoroughly compiled debunking of political insincerity.

      Nice one Stu.

      If only voters were influenced by rational argument rather than tribal allegiance democracy as a system of government could serve us quite well.

    78. heedtracker says:

      What a shock, another day of the thieving britnat’s of teamGB, blue tory style.

      How Severin Carrell of stinky old the Graun covers it,

      Kezia Dugdale: I’ll donate part of I’m a Celebrity fee to charity
      The former Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale has promised to donate part of her fee from appearing in I’m a Celebrity … Get Me Out of Here to a homeless charity as she defended her decision to appear in the show.”

      Thanks again proud Scotbuts.

    79. The SNP have raised this several times in Westminster only to be sneeringly told that the SG knew they would be charged VAT.

      I thought it was the job of the Scottish Government (or indeed, any government) to make policy decisions and it is the job of the Civil Service to apply or change the regulations to take account of government decisions.

      The despicable tories are making a mockery of the Scottish people and sadly, they still get people to vote for them

    80. p says:

      Radio Shortbread in the past 20 minutes have twice presented us with withering interviews about that ‘Gaffe’ of unifying the emergency services all the while knowing VAT would be charged. The Tory repeated and was give more chances to repeat ‘Scots Tories have cleared up the mess’. Then the SLavour ShadowScotSec was equally given chance after chance to reiterate the Scots Government mess-up (with, oddly, no mention of Scots tories).

      All that was required for balance was the interviewer to interject ‘As at the time all four Scots partys agreed was the best course. Did she? Never.

      It sounded just like a Mail headline would read.

    81. Calum McKay says:

      The police in Northern Ireland are a national force!

      Guess what, they don’t pay VAT.

      Fancy that!

      SNP could do with employing researchers with a blood hound nose like wings!

    82. Robert Peffers says:

      @Alba Jock says: 22 November, 2017 at 4:55 pm:

      “I have a real issue with this!”

      Aye! You sure as hell do have issues.

      “Why oh why do we stand for the arrogance with the Tory bar-stewards.”

      “We”, don’t – maybe you do.

      ” … I’ve had enough if the Scottish Government and our MP’s don’t start telling them where to go I may vote for the Raving Loony Party next time.”

      Waste your vote if you want to but the facts do not fit your assessment in any way. First of all neither the SNP as a political party nor the wider YES movement NOT call the Westminster Establishment out for what it is.

      Just because you personally are not aware of it doesn’t mean they are not doing so. If you watch:-

      You will see them do so both in the debating Chamber and in the Committee Rooms.

      If you watch:-

      From Westminster you will be aware that they do but you will also see the sheer and utter contempt that the Unionists, including the Speaker and his deputies, treat the Scottish MPs with. However they SNP MPs do indeed call them out regularly.

      “Call them for what they are, liars, cheats and ass whippers for WM”

      Just because you do not read about it in the Scottish dead tree press or hear and see it on the Westminster funded and or controlled radio & TV channels does not mean that they are not doing so.

      Up-thread I quote a part of a report in, “The National”, that shows the only new non-unionist MP elected from Scotland from the last snap-election has asked more written questions than the entire unionist rat-bag of MPs elected from Scotland and that is without counting the other SNP MPs questions.

      Then, of course, there is the SNP’s party website:-

      And here is an example from their home page. It is a letter to Jeremy Corbyn:-

      By Ian Blackford, 21/11/17

      Dear Jeremy,

      Last night the Labour Party abstained on a crucial vote aimed at protecting the UK’s place in the customs union. I find this particularly difficult to understand given that the amendment the House voted on was in the name of the Labour Member for Edinburgh South, Ian Murray.

      The UK Government has said that they would like to ensure that UK-EU trade in as frictionless as possible and I am sure this is an objective all of us across the House share.

      We currently enjoy tariff-free access across the EU and the other countries that form the EEA. As the Government’s white paper highlighted, this has benefited businesses and consumers all across the UK and is essential for sectors like the automotive or food and drink industries that have highly integrated supply chains and rely on this ease of trade.

      This is particularly true for time-dependent supply chains, such as fresh foods, medical goods, e-commerce, or just-in-time manufacturing, that do not have to go through routine customs controls.

      In Scotland, international exports are up 41% between 2007 and 2015. We also know that our exports to the EU ultimately support over 300,000 jobs across Scotland. Our continued membership is absolutely critical not only in protecting jobs but ensuring the economic stability our SMEs need to flourish.

      Your Shadow Treasury Minister stated that Labour’s position is to leave all options on the table. Last night’s vote was a chance to take a no-deal scenario off the table, something which would give businesses clarity and would send a positive message to our partners in Europe.

      Passing the amendments would have paved the way to stay in the EEA, as that would have been the only practical way to achieve what was proposed. From there, the UK Government could have negotiated from a position of strength and removed the uncertainty of a no-deal scenario. If it then wished to exit the EEA and create new trade and customs arrangements with the world largest single market, it could still propose a new Bill to Parliament for these purposes.

      Can you clarify that Labour’s decision to abstain on the vote last night was an instruction from yourself as Party Leader and that your position is for the UK to leave the customs union?

      Ian Blackford
      SNP Westminster Group Leader “

      So there you go – just because you do not know what is really going on doesn’t mean it doesn’t go on.

      I’ll give you another wee insight to Westminster that may help open your eyes and mind to the truth and not the truth as told by Westminster and their paid for media.:-

    83. Hamish100 says:

      I see the tory police rep wants all the monies from VAT to be located solely for them.

      nope – put it into preventative measures. After all we don’t want crime don’t we police federation.

    84. geeo says:

      Mundell proclaims the VAT rebate as good news for Scotland..emm…£140 million robbed and not returned, ya roaster..!!

    85. twathater says:

      @ Robert Peffers 5.16 pm there you go again Robert slagging anyone who dares utter an opinion about the SNP SG or their methodology
      Your constant inference that anyone who disagrees with that methodology or opines that they should take a more aggressive stance , is always met with the accusation that they are undercover agents ,stupid , or worse brit nats . It is insulting , uncalled for and creates the attitude that unless you adhere to the MANTRA you are unworthy of consideration .

      Everyone has and is entitled to hold an opinion whether they agree with you or conform to the mantra
      I agree and enjoy most of your posts but your denigration of other people’s opinion is harsh and may put off people posting their feelings

      We are all frustrated at the clusterfcuk of these brit nats we are all DESPERATE for independence , but as you have repeated many times ONLY the SNP can deliver independence but we are entitled to express when we think they are missing an oportunity

    86. galamcennalath says:

      Excellent article on Ireland …

      … the Tories need a really good hard kick up the backside, and soon. They just want to ignore Ireland and focus their pathetic grubby minds on money and trade. I sincerely hope the EU take the ‘Irish problem’ a lot more seriously.

      Peace has been arrived at in difficult circumstances and the cooperation across all Ireland is a huge achievement. Yet the Tories seem willing to jeopardise it all.

    87. TheWasp says:

      Disreporting saying not much to be bothered about in Hammond’s budget, but Derek Mackays budget is going to be disaster and a complete bloodbath in Holyrood

    88. Feel_loon says:

      On holiday at moment in sunny canaries ,,,sorry
      First catch up on wings and another brilliant article but also one that drives you to drink
      Why the feck can nobody see what is going on it’s incredible

      Saw Jim Murphy at Glasgow airport Monday morning no sign of Iran bru crate tho must have got taken off him through security

    89. Legerwood says:

      Ian Blackford’s speech today in Parliament in response to the budget. No mention of it on the news where we are.

      Lots of useful facts and figures in it.

      Apologies if link has already been posted

    90. Inverclyder says:

      Tories eh! I’ve wiped better off the sole of my shoe.

      Utter scumbags the lot of them, the lowest of the low.

    91. geeo says:

      @galamcennalath 3.12pm

      “The next Scottish Parliament election is due to be held on Thursday 6 May 2021 and the Unionists intend to take a majority”.

      Is that the election that will not involve unionists when Scots voted Yes in 2018/19 ?

    92. North chiel says:

      After the latest vote in HOC where Labour voted with the Tories for withdrawal from single market& customs union ( ie. hard Brexit”), it would appear to indicate that the Westminster establishment
      now are confident of a hard Brexit. Also, & this would appear to indicate that the Britnat establishment are also confident of winning a second independence referendum ( as our Holyrood parliament has already voted for Indyref2 as our Scottish government has a mandate on the “ material change in circumstances “and single market / customs union access). This could well be a miscalculation by the Westminster establishment, however there is still plenty of water to flow “ under the Brexit bridge” and the “ chameleon Britnat Labour Party could well change its tune further down the line. In the interim , if the Scottish government previously thought that a Corbyn government or coalition would be significantly better for the U.K. & Scotland then surely now at the very least in a European context the Britnat Labour Party are aligning themselves very closely to the right wing Tory agenda , notwithstanding their previous votes in favour of welfare cuts etc.
      If the Brexit talks collapse then a spring GE could be on the cards the SNP should consider very carefully any “ cosying up” to Labour during any campaign . It is clear that Corbyn is carefully aligning his policies ( Brexit, Trident, etc ) with the wishes of the establishment ( and media barons) to maximise his chance of entering no.10., in the event of “ Brexit Mayhem” and the resignation of the PM.
      However, the timing of any Indyref 2 call is crucial, as if our FM gets it right, and if May has survived Brexit, then the U.K. government could well attempt again to “ cut the feet from under” our FM , if Scotland appeared to be moving towards” Yes”, by calling a general election. All Britnat parties would then be panicked into “ constitutional CONcessions ” to “ undermine “ Indyref2”. It would appear to me that our outstanding First minister has to endure a significantly longer period “ in the jungle “ with the “ Britnat snakes , toadies & creepy crawlies “ than I’m a celebrity Kez”. Hopefully our wonderful FM can survive and “ earn her people a meal ticket “out of this failed so called “ United Kingdom”.

    93. I have come to the conclusion that the bigest troll on here is Mr., Peffers any time anyone disagrees with the way the SNP are doing things he responds right away to tell them they are wrong he has been doing it for years I would say l think he does protest to much ???

    94. heedtracker says:

      Utter scumbags the lot of them, the lowest of the low.”

      Just watching C4 teatime news all about former President of Serbia Slobodan Miloševic, guilty in the Hague of genocide, killing thousands of Muslims.

      So why are Blair, Brown and all the rest of Labour not in the same courts in the Hague, for their Iraq war?

      Only in this farce union…

    95. Capella says:

      @ Legerwood – that certainly is a substantial speech which Ian Blackford made today. I can’t believe he managed to get through that without interruptions so he must have been on his feet for some time.

      When the UK government chose the rape clause, the Scottish Government chose the baby box.

      When the UK government trebled tuition fees, the Scottish Government maintained the principle of free tuition for all.

      When the Conservatives pushed for a dementia tax, the Scottish Government stood by free personal care for the elderly.

      We know that an economy is not just a tool for inclusive growth but is central to the social fabric of the society in which we grow up.

      It’s time to build an economy that benefits all.

      End the damaging austerity agenda and stop the catastrophic ideological obsession with a Brexit ‘no deal’.

      BBC seems to have missed it.

    96. Paula Rose says:

      Blair Paterson Robert Peffers is a fine gent – he has his view one doesn’t need to debate with him.

    97. heedtracker says:

      Blair Paterson says:
      22 November, 2017 at 7:38 pm
      I have come to the conclusion that the bigest troll on here is Mr., Peffers any time anyone disagrees with the way the SNP are doing things he responds right away to tell them they are wrong he has been doing it for years I would say l think he does protest to much ???

      Some call it debate.

      If you cant stand the heat…

      Strap on a pair, perlease:D

    98. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tories don’t do intelectual stuff, equality or ethics, they instread place high value on right-wing authoritarian social order and a respect for tradition, including the institutionalised corruption it masks.

      How much more evidence does Scotland need before it see the Conservatives for the shabby bunch of back-to-fronts that they are? None, IMHO.

    99. Meg merrilees says:

      Blair Paterson

      Be careful what you say – I might have to start disagreeing with you too.

      In fact – I do disagree with you already.

    100. Meg merrilees says:

      North Chiel

      Interesting post – but you do realise that nicola is releasing a document in the new Year about the vision for Scotland’s future as an independent nation… maybe she’s got her eye on a Spring GE too???

    101. Marcia says:

      The article confirms that Mundell has been and still is a waste of space.

    102. Meg merrilees says:

      So pleased to hear that Philip Hammond has been forced to stop charging the Scottish emergency services Vat by the actions of Richard Leonard…how lucky we are that this fine gentleman puts his energies into righting such wrongs and so successfully to boot!!!

    103. Meg merrilees says:

      Jack Murphy @ 2.56 and Les Wilson @ 2.54

      Thanks for the link to Ian Blackford’s speech – wow – that was terrific.Recommend others to have a listen.

      Les Wilson: re Stephen Kerr Con MP for Stirling, he only has a majority of 146 ( 147?) so hopefully he won’t be there for much longer!!!

    104. Dr Jim says:

      Tories insult Scotlands electorate by telling half the country they voted for the wrong party so we the Tories are going to punish you stupid Scots folk because we don’t like your taste in politics

      Now if the SNP were to behave like that and say all Unionist councils were to get less money because we don’t like you it would be all over the media as the SNP Nazi party

      These Unionists are projectile vomit

    105. David Anderson says:

      Peffers praetorian Guard out in force, lol. He is cantankerous, often rude, and dismissive of those who hold differing views, offputting for more than me i wager!

      Re the budget,it is shocking even to my hardened stomach that the Tories in Scotland are being aided in pushing the line of doing more with 13 than the SNP has at Westminster in years. It is obvious preparation for any future vote, juste like the no referendim line in the last election. Horrible to think it may work with the added assistance of the msm.

    106. Giving Goose says:

      Robert Peffers, in answer to your question – I want the Scottish Government to be less than predictable. They need to start showing disrespect to London. It’ll be returned in spades (already is).
      Nothing to do with SNP Baad (you got that wrong).

    107. manandboy says:

      Police VAT? Nah!

      Hammond neglected to mention where the real focus of his attention is – Scotland’s oilfields and the huge demand for the latest round of licences. If you read this be prepared for anger – and then something much deeper.

      The Oil and Gas Authority (OGA) Receives ‘Great response to the United Kingdom’s latest offshore licensing round, the regulator confirmed on its Twitter page Wednesday

      Ninety-six applications, covering 239 blocks, were submitted in the main oil and gas producing areas of the UK Continental Shelf for the 30th Offshore Licensing Round. Applications were received from 68 companies, ranging from multinationals to new country entrants.

      The Licensing Round, which closed on November 21, offered participants the chance to acquire acreage in the UKCS’s main basins, including the Southern, Central and Northern North Sea, the West of Shetland and East Irish Sea, with an aggregate area totaling 28,275,280 acres. Awards are expected to be offered to successful applicants during the second quarter of 2018.

      The acreage offer featured a large inventory of prospects and undeveloped discoveries, according to the OGA, which said it provided digital data packages and co-hosted a technology event with the Oil and Gas Technology Centre to support the industry in ‘unlocking’ these opportunities.

      “Despite the difficult economic environment, industry has responded strongly to this round, confirming the high remaining potential of the UKCS,” said Nick Richardson, head of exploration and new ventures at the OGA, in an organization statement.

      “The focus on regions with existing infrastructure provided companies with an excellent opportunity to take a fresh look at a large inventory of opportunities from which to rebuild their portfolios to help sustain future production,” he added.

      Independent oil and gas firm i3 Energy plc confirmed Wednesday that it was one of the 68 applicants. The company said it had targeted and extensively evaluated seismic and well data on a ‘highly attractive region of acreage’, which, if awarded to i3, could add 2C Contingent Resources of 22 million barrels of oil to the company’s portfolio.

      “The UK licensing round offers an exciting opportunity,” said i3 CEO, Neill Carson, in a company statement.

      Attention now turns to the 31st Round, scheduled to be launched in mid-2018, which will provide ‘high-impact exploration opportunities in under-explored areas of the UKCS,’ according to the OGA.

      To support the next licensing round, the OGA said it will release the results of the 2016 Government-Funded Seismic Program on November 27. The data covers the East Shetland Platform, North West Scotland, South West Approaches, East Irish Sea, Celtic Sea, Cardigan Bay, Morecambe Bay, Bristol Channel and English Channel.

    108. galamcennalath says:

      geeo says:

      “The next Scottish Parliament election is due to be held on Thursday 6 May 2021 …. Is that the election that will not involve unionists when Scots voted Yes in 2018/19 ?

      I sure as Hell hope that’s how things pan out, but I’m also sure the Unionists imagine a different future!

      If the SG don’t have IndyRef2 in 18/19 then they are taking a huge risk. I fear that since a transition period might be EU-as-usual and so some may believe IndyRef2 must be beyond that. The Tories want Brexit to happen, but they also want to keep their Union. They might accept a delayed Brexit (via a transition) just to thwart Indy. I have little doubt that making it through to the next Holyrood election is high in ther priorities.

      Ideally they will fck up earlier and IndyRef2 becomes justifiable and winnable.

    109. Scott says:

      Big headline.

      Universal credit wait reduced to five weeks

      But,But did Ruth the mouth not tell that it had already been cut to 5 days will BBC asking if she lied come on Gary GMS nows your chance to get to the truth.

      Liar,liar I say.

    110. McDuff says:

      twathater 6.43

      I agree with every line.

    111. Truth says:

      Give it back!

    112. Ian Smith says:

      On at least three occasions during his post budget speech in the HOC this afternoon the Deputy Speaker referred to Ian Blackford on at least three occasions as Ian Black. Surely Mr Deputy Speaker should know the name of the leader of the 3rd largest party in Westminster. Listen to the recording here from 14: 18: 25.

    113. heedtracker says:

      Giving Goose says:
      22 November, 2017 at 8:28 pm
      Robert Peffers, in answer to your question – I want the Scottish Government to be less than predictable. They need to start showing disrespect to London. It’ll be returned in spades (already is).
      Nothing to do with SNP Baad (you got that wrong).

    114. Alex Clark says:

      @David Anderson

      “Peffers praetorian Guard out in force, lol.”

      You can talk, I’ll do a Rock for you, here’s one of your posts acting as a Praetorian Guard for uber Wings troll Colin Alexander.

      David Anderson says:
      24 June, 2017 at 7:20 pm
      @Colin Alexander
      I wouldn’t worry, those who go on about Unionist trolls all the time are harmless really. They are also evidently working towards the ultimate goal for us all. In saying that, they do come across as howling at the moon bonkers sometimes. Sometimes I laugh at the comments, at other times it comes across as rather pathetic. I doubt I am the only one.

      As for the rest of your post, subliminal?

      Re the budget,it is shocking even to my hardened stomach that the Tories in Scotland are being aided in pushing the line of doing more with 13 than the SNP has at Westminster in years.

      Subtle? LOL. You’ll need to do a whole lot better than that.

    115. twathater says:

      @ manandboy 8.30pm what would be an apple cart upsetting moment would be for the SNP SG to issue a statement to the effect that when independence is declared , that the current list of licenses and license holders , in line with common practice will have to be reviewed and interrogated to ascertain that the full benefits socially , financially and ethically are being delivered in partnership with the Scottish people’s interest at the forefront of any decisions

      I think this might induce a few heart attacks

    116. David Anderson says:

      Alex, line three of my old post seems made for you, it fits your bonkers post like a glove. I will be sure to show it to my SNP MP mate amongst others when we next meet. Hahahaha thanks for the laugh. Ooooooowooooo woo woooo wooooo! Subliminal ahahahahahaha, watch that tin hat doesn’t get in the way if your driving, you might fall down the rabbit hole. Subliminal, you fruitcake!

    117. Gaelstorm says:

      Not normally what I’d say. But; what a shower of c***’s.

    118. Rock says:

      “but also keeping £140m of Scotland’s money that it stole in the meantime and demanding that Scots should be grateful that they’re not stealing any more.”

      Can’t the “sovereign” people of Scotland demand their stolen money back?

      Surely Robert Peffers knows how it can be done.

    119. Katie MacDonald says:

      Off topic….. On Stv theres gonna be a jungle surprise….. Kezias coming. Brace urselves!!!

    120. Meg merrilees says:

      Man and boy

      Presume this is why the INEOS guy has been able to buy the forties oil field and pipeline and I believe some other fields/rigs in the N Sea – also, suppose he will be in the bidding for the spoils.

      I agree, it’s all a cover to hide the real business going on just nowise. we are being shafted big time!

      If we try to escape Brexit they are trying to ensure that we have precious little in the cupboard to keep us going…

    121. Rock says:

      Alex Clark (aka Thepnr):

      “You can talk, I’ll do a Rock for you, here’s one of your posts acting as a Praetorian Guard for uber Wings troll Colin Alexander.”

      Since you brought me in for no reason, let us look at this:

      Robert Peffers says (to Thepnr):
      27 March, 2017 at 7:40 pm )”The same old songs again”):

      “Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid. First of all you are not the person who decides what the purpose of the Rev Stu’s blog is. That’s the Rev Stu’s choice to make. Secondly you probably wouldn’t recognise a real Troll if it was chewing on your ear.”

      Thepnr (27th March – “The same old songs again”):

      “@Robert Peffers

      You know something Robert you post a lot of stuff that people may like. You also tend to attack anyone who doesn’t have exactly the same view as you. Why?

      Give it a rest Robert, sure give us your opinion but tell me once more that “Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid.”

      Then you will also be ignored. You should STOP being disrespectful to other posters. Give me your opinion by all means but stop telling me that mine is shite. OK.”

    122. Alex Clark says:

      @David Anderson

      Your right, my use of subliminal was misjudged in the case of your post and I apologise. You have to read between the lines with a lot of posts, I got yours wrong.

      As for being a fruitcake lol, I don’t mind that as you’ve observed many that read Wings appear to be howling at the moon as that is exactly what they are doing. At least we are still howling.

    123. call me dave says:

      The budget relating to Scotland has probably / almost hamstrung the SG from being able to do too much more in mitigating the intended affects of the Tories scorched earth approach.

      The ‘oil lamps’ (not Scots oil) will be burning long into the night in SNP meeting rooms to look at innovative ways to eek out the spending available to them. The SG budget is due soon.

      We all here are angry because we pretty much know the score but many going about their lives in Scotland, trying to make a crust, will come to see that independence is a necessity now and there is no shelter or compassion from any WM Government.

      It was always going to come down to this as WM will treat YES and NO voters with equal impunity its Scotland… stand up or get on your knees people!

      Vote SNP every time till it’s done. 🙂

    124. Artyhetty says:


      Your, lolz. Your means your jacket, your opinion, your mobile, your secret service i.d. You’re means you are.

      Carry on fooling YOURself. Wings’ readership is somewhat a tad more sophisticated, and, sorry for you, very knowledgeable and acutely astute.

      Insult all you like, but there are people who have far more
      integrity and who have far more influence in all manner of things, who visit WOS, than you could possibly ever hope to contend with!

    125. Brian McHugh says:

      It was always in Westminster Tory’s power. They are charlatans. This is one of the more despicable things they have done recently (and there’s lots of competition for that claim).

      £140 Million is an absolutely tiny amount in the bigger scheme of things. It just demonstrates how far the Tory’s will drive Scotland down given half the chance.

    126. Alex Clark says:


      I’ve posted on Wings since 2013 under the username of Thepnr before changing to my real name this year.

      I thought a poster as knowledgeable as yourself would have known that?

    127. Brian McHugh says:

      I didn’t know that Thepnr 🙂

    128. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Aye, Artyhetty.

      Methinks your dart hit the wire there…

    129. Phronesis says:

      Why hasn’t the chancellor abandoned austerity yet? A letter to the Guardian describes this preferred political choice that will continue to punish a generation.

      ‘Seven years of austerity has destroyed lives. An estimated 30,000 excess deaths can be linked to cuts in NHS spending and the social care crisis in 2015 alone. The number of food parcels given to impoverished Britons has grown from tens of thousands in 2010 to over a million.
      Children are suffering from real-terms spending cuts in up to 88% of schools. The public sector pay cap has meant that millions of workers are struggling to make ends meet.
      Alongside the mounting human costs, austerity has hurt our economy. The UK has experienced its weakest recovery on record and suffers from poor levels of investment, leading to low productivity and falling wages. This government has missed every one of its own debt reduction targets because austerity simply doesn’t work’

      It’s not the SNP that increased Scotland’s toxic stress- we are all Thatcher’s grandchildren.

      ‘Thinking about Scotland’s health problems from this perspective links social, environmental and political factors to the health of individuals and groups. Since income, wealth, power, environment and access to services all have the potential to affect childhood adversity and attachment processes, this approach is consistent with a “structural” perspective on health inequalities, which holds that differences in the socioeconomic circumstances, at all stages of the life-course, cause differences in health outcomes’

      Scotland has ambitious anti-poverty targets – perhaps the electorate in England should be demanding the same of their preferred government.

    130. Alex Clark says:

      @Brian McHugh

      I seem to remember you changing to your real name eh Alba4Eva 🙂

    131. Can the UK Gov actually change the VAT to zero,

      `… however if a Member State makes an increase from a zero rate to the prevalent standard rate, they may not then decrease down to a reduced rate unless specifically provided for in EU VAT Law (Annexe III of EU Dir 2006/112 list sets out where a reduced rate is permissible).`

      police were zero the charged 20% so are the Gov allowed to decrease.

    132. schrodingers cat says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      Aye, Artyhetty.

      Methinks your dart hit the wire there…

      local pub rules,… if you catch it wi’ yer teeth, you get to throw it again 🙂


      Katie MacDonald says:
      theres gonna be a jungle surprise….. Kezias coming. Brace urselves!!!

      correction. Brace ursel’ shiela !!! 🙂

    133. Robert Peffers says:

      @twathater says: 22 November, 2017 at 6:43 pm:

      “@ Robert Peffers 5.16 pm there you go again Robert slagging anyone who dares utter an opinion about the SNP SG or their methodology.”

      Claptrap, twathater. First of all I do not slag, “anyone”, only the ones who slagged off the SNP when the slagging is decidedly unwarranted.

      “Your constant inference that anyone who disagrees with that methodology or opines that they should take a more aggressive stance, is always met with the accusation that they are undercover agents ,stupid , or worse brit nats . It is insulting, uncalled for and creates the attitude that unless you adhere to the MANTRA you are unworthy of consideration.”

      Utter pish! I make the point on every occasion why their pish is unwarranted. Furthermore I usually quote evidence to show otherwise. Your own mantra here beggars the question – what is your motive?

      “Everyone has and is entitled to hold an opinion whether they agree with you or conform to the mantra”

      Indeed so, Twathater, and that includes my entitlement to hold my opinions whether I agree with you or not, or are the rules different for my opinions as they do not agree with yours?

      “I agree and enjoy most of your posts but your denigration of other people’s opinion is harsh and may put off people posting their feelings.”

      Of course, in your opinion, it seems the hurt dished out to hard working MEPs, MPs, MSPs and councillors elected to office won’t, it seems, in your not so humble opinion, be of equal value to those of the mostly misinformed people who are slagging them off?

      “We are all frustrated at the clusterfcuk of these brit nats we are all DESPERATE for independence , but as you have repeated many times ONLY the SNP can deliver independence but we are entitled to express when we think they are missing an opportunity”

      Which is exactly the points I am making. The SNP are working extremely hard and their work has brought us this close to the goal we all seek. They do not need to be discouraged by constantly being told they are doing things all wrong.

      Perhaps it would suit those, “frustrated”, detractors of the finest group of political figures the SNP has ever managed to pull together in the party if they were not, “Frustrating”, or attempting to frustrate the guys and gals at the coal face actually doing the hard, and according to their detractors, useless and unproductive work/

      I have never, in my long support of the SNP and independence, ever claimed that the SNP were never wrong. In fact I’ve sometimes, (not often it is true), given a candidate or an elected to office person a real earful of things they did not appreciate. Thing is, with few exceptions, they mostly eventually agreed they were either wrong or at least unwise.

      The thing about criticism is that it is either constructive or destructive and when an elected person is criticised publically on an open forum, or if the party is urged to do something that would be counter productive, it most certainly is destructive.

      You only needs must look at Northern Ireland, Catalonia or indeed anywhere in the World that there has been independence, or democratic freedoms, sought to see the extreme violence that ensues.

      Much of what your, “Frustrated”, individuals are urging the SNP to do would lead to such violence. Believe me I know how the Westminster Establishment works as do the miners and others who have been treated by, “Police Brutality”.

      I stood on an official picket line outside Rosyth Dockyard when the thoroughly Fife Police who had stood there all day were relieved by several busloads of very much more burly men in police uniforms at Dockyard lousing time. Thing was I saw among them a very large lad who was the son of my neighbour.

      I knew he was a member of the RAF Regiment and most certainly not a member of the Police force. Another in that line up who used violence against a peaceful picket line was identified as in the SAS. Do we really want to give the Westminster Establishment the excuse to attack indy supporters?

      It is suppressed in the media and in the history books but Westminster has a very long history of extreme violence against civilians right here in Scotland and I do not just mean in the Glasgow rent riots.

      Now go read my posts again and see that I quote examples that prove the criticisms are largely unwarranted. If you have a real criticism to make, and can prove it as such, then go ahead and you won’t hear a cheep out of me.

      Did I ever condemn anyone for slagging off the notorious wife beater the SNP threw out? I have no objection to honest and constructive criticism but I will not stand by and have hard working and dedicated people slagged off for doing their jobs properly.

    134. Robert Peffers says:

      @Blair Paterson says: 22 November, 2017 at 7:38 pm:

      “I have come to the conclusion that the bigest troll on here is Mr., Peffers any time anyone disagrees with the way the SNP are doing things he responds right away to tell them they are wrong he has been doing it for years I would say l think he does protest to much ???”

      Oh! So I’m the Toll am I?

      Is it not noteworthy that I state a case, quote reasons and give cites while you, on the other hand, only make empty accusations.

      Now which is the actions of a Troll and which those of someone making a good reasoned argument?

    135. schrodingers cat says:

      @Blair Paterson says:
      “I have come to the conclusion that the bigest troll on here is Mr., Peffers …

      devastated moi……. after all my hard work too..

      the cat sobs uncontrolably

    136. Famous15 says:

      The question does not concern the VAT rate or whether the Brit Govt can change that rate.The issue is why did they apply VAT. The SNP knew that VAT was possible but expected that since other parties including the Tories wanted to combine the Scottish Police Service into one unit that by Statutory Instrument the UK Govt would not apply VAT.

      The Tories saw an opportunity to play a game of politics with Scottish public safety and took it.

      To resurrect and paraphrase that 60s anti police song “I’ll sing you a song it won’t take long. All Tories are bastards”

    137. donnywho says:

      Robert been an occasional poster for years and read many of your posts.

      If there is anything to fault you for it might be being a bit long winded… That said it is always worth the effort to read.

      A Troll you are not, being Trolled, well that is another matter!

    138. Robert Peffers says:

      David Anderson says: 22 November, 2017 at 8:28 pm:

      “Peffers praetorian Guard out in force, lol. He is cantankerous, often rude, and dismissive of those who hold differing views, offputting for more than me i wager!”

      Cantankerous, yes. only rude to those who are already rude and I do am not dismissive because I hold a different view. You will not that while I state a case and cite examples those who accuse me only make assertions

      Making unfounded assertions is far more rude that telling someone they are wrong – and proving it.

      Let them argue their point, and prove they are right. If they can’t or won’t, then my point has been made and proven.

      Where do these people learn to think and to debate?
      They shoot their mouths off but never prove a point. Just more SNP BAAD! like the unionist sheep.

      Go to YouTube and type in the search box, “Westminster Scottish Questions”. Have a wee browse through the very many results and the point will be very clear that our elected representative suffer much abuse and they really do take the Unionists to task.

      Go follow the day to day events in the Westminster parliament and you see the truth – and it is not what you will garner from the biased media. Yet these people are hurling abuse at our hard working elected representatives.

      I got an email in my mailbox today:-

      If you didn’t get it you may like to read it.

    139. Chick McGregor says:

      Rev. Your rightly have said that we should ignore the trolls. However, what happens when there is a concerted attack on long standing demonstrably pro indy posters by trolls?

      Do we still desist, or will you take things in hand?

    140. Robert Peffers says:

      Giving Goose says: 22 November, 2017 at 8:28 pm:

      “Robert Peffers, in answer to your question – I want the Scottish Government to be less than predictable. They need to start showing disrespect to London. It’ll be returned in spades (already is).”

      Do you ever read the comments, Giving Goose?

      I quoted several cites to examples of just such activity by our hard working MPs. They do indeed do just that in the Commons. Yet you choose to take the unionist media line on things.

      Go watch the events as they happen and you will get a quite different view of what is really going on. In the first place the scene in the chamber is usually an almost empty chamber until you get a look at the SNP benches. Our people are there and not in the many subsidised dives of the house.

      Yet watch the almost magical appearance of the lobby fodder when a division bell sounds – thing is our guys and gals are there in the chamber debating – (if the speaker allows them the chance).

      Their media is never going to show the unionists in a bad light unless they have the knives out for individuals they want rid of from Westminster.

    141. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 12.15
      Cantankerous!!! Are ye?
      Well I am gonnay need some link’s to demonstrate that assertion Robert… Fur science ye ken!!
      Well fur some tip’s if am

      Seriously tho don’t rise tae it Robert just keep on making yer points in your own way!

      It is very difficult to understand sometimes why some Scot’s just can’t or won’t wake up and take the obvious route out of this rancid Union,and on a day where we have just been robbed blind AGAIN.
      I think the frustration has boiled over on here….and when there’s a pot of shite on the boil “some” stir like it’s God’s own work.

    142. defo says:

      Is the existence of the likes of this MF empirical evidence of the Nasty party operating a strict inverse Peter Principle recruitment policy ?
      Name one who doesn’t fit that bill ? Utter incompetence, coupled with brass neck in spades.
      Tompkins maybe? He has a sleekit want about him, in certain lights.

      Is it really that time,to remind everyone who’s the proprietor of this marvelous website, and what his rules of engagement are again,already? 🙂

    143. manandboy says:

      UK oil exploration licences issued yesterday are in big demand and yet the Chancellor of the Exchequer says nothing in his Budget about it. This silence is nothing short of criminal omission.

      Meg merrilees says we are being shafted bigtime, and
      twathater says that the current list of licenses and license holders , in line with common practice will have to be reviewed and interrogated to ascertain that the full benefits socially , financially and ethically are being delivered in partnership with the Scottish people’s interest at the forefront of any decisions. I think this might induce a few heart attacks.

      I agree wholeheartedly with Meg and twahater. To put the Oil in context, consider the non-stop noise in the media for the past sixteen months over the damage Brexit will do to the UK economy. Contrast with the damage to the Scottish economy of the loss of oil revenues for the last 47 years with rarely a cheep from the MMS.
      Theresa May never stops talking about Brexit but she NEVER talks about Scottish Oil. It is absolutely incredible how the subject of Scotland’s Oil is kept completely out of the UK conversation.
      While in the silence the theft of Scotland’s oil wealth continues without interruption, filling the coffers of the English ruling classes.

    144. William Wallace says:

      @ Rab P 😉 (I will tell you this)

      You are one of the best posters here. I have learnt a shit load o stuff from reading your posts. Eh ken ye dinnae suffer fools gladly and sometimes you can come across as a wee bit abrasive but, you are a first class contributor and educator. Dinnae even rise to the troll shite. Save your excellent contributions for the fowk still learning iy.

      As to Alex being accused o being MI5 fae other contributors – GI YIRSEL PEACE FFS 🙂

      Wir ah on the same team iy 🙂 (Well maist o wi onywey)

    145. Brent Crude is trading at over $63 a barrel,

      even at $50 a barrel,that still means another $1trillion worth of oil out there,

      $1trillion that we seem to be letting another country just waltz in and take away,

      the biggest theft in history,and our drooling slack jawed media pretend they didn`t see nuffink.

    146. Cactus says:

      Yeah, let’s see how yesterdays donkey budget and media now takes effect and affect on the general public / casual observer. Once it resonates, it could be a spectacular fail.

      With regards to the Police Scotland VAT issue, curious casual observers, upon reading the MSM headlines, may stop and now ask themselves the question.. “but surely this is something the present Scottish Government would have already been seeking to have exempted / reclaimed from the UK Government by now?”

      You’d be correct, (ScotGov SNP have done for pure ages already) well done.

      But oh no, according to the MSM, the UKGov couldnae previously do it with even one tory, it takes a tory or two to do it, but to be sure let’s make that 13 tories.

      Still, this should hopefully divide half of the 12% of some ‘previous no voters’ to make them question-over again, the value to (of and for) Scotland being part of this so called United Kingdom thing. Statistically, these ‘new Yes voters’ alone would be enough to take us HOME to Yes. 😉

      SO when are these thirteen tories going to do their photo-shoot to celebrate their own undoing…

      Wait.. there’s thirteen of them, thirteen letters, that means that they really could do their publicity photo-shoot, with each of them holding a letter each, printed on A1 sized laminated paper, spelling out…

      N O ~ V A T ~ O N ~ P O L I C E

      Cheers Polis Scotland, Fire, Ambulance, Coastguard, 999, 101… yous all do an excellent job, thanks for looking after us all x.

      Scotland and her people will no longer be political hostages.

      The quickening is quickening.

      ‘Mon the pnv’s…

      6% plus.

    147. Still Positive says:

      Is it my imagination but with SG day-to-day budget cut, ie no extra from WM for NHS etc and the ‘extra’ being somewhat opaque but involving a ‘loan’ which has to be ‘paid back’ that the WMG is trying to force Tory ideology on Scotland?

      The ‘loan’ it seems has strings attached i.e it goes against SG principles which we voted for.

      I believe Mundell has said, “The SG has innovative ways of getting round this.” I fear the WMG has scuppered that, more or less.

    148. Robert Peffers says:

      @Liz g says: 23 November, 2017 at 12:39 am:

      “Cantankerous!!! Are ye?
      Well I am gonnay need some link’s to demonstrate that assertion Robert… Fur science ye ken!!
      Well fur some tip’s if am”

      Och! Liz g, I’ve been accused of being much worse by much better people than them.

      I did have to laugh at the accusation the SNP MPs needed to show some disrespect to Westminster.

      Do they not remember the incident the generated much hilarity when Westminster got rather upset when the new SNP intake applauded their own Members instead if by the idiotic, “Here! Here! shouts? I immediately posted that Westminster Unionist MPs were, “Rather afraid of getting, “The Clap from the SNP Members”.

      Then there is this little incident:-

      Yet today we have a Winger accusing the SNP MPs of NOT treating Westminster with disrespect. Quite obviously this was a claim made in ignorance of what is actually happening in that place.

      It really does, though, take the proverbial biscuit when their own supporters are not aware of the truth and are posting here on a public forum criticising the MPs for NOT doing this, that and the other.

      Yes I know they just do not get the true facts from the media but there is no excuse when there is Westminster Parliament on-line live coverage of the chamber as it happens. Perhaps not seen on the Parliament Channel on Freeview, though.

      The same must be said about Holyrood for they also cover the doings of Holyrood as they happen. Not to mention either the SNP’s improved website and the various news agencies that the MSM and BBC get most of their info from – before they then edit it with their propaganda.

      Anyone who wants to can see for themselves what goes on in the more public areas of Westminster, Holyrood and the EU. We will never see the worse things that go on in their private offices in those places.

      We all get frustrated with the long wait but we do not all turn on our own to vent that frustration. There really is no other avenues open to us to gain our independence than by the SNP and their record on that score has not been bettered since before 1706/7, or indeed since before 1603. And. let’s face it I’ve been frustrated by the long, long road to independence for longer than most Wingers – and wow! do I feel that long, long wait these days.

    149. Mary miles says:

      God Bless you Robert P – everyone learns so much from your posts. Ignore the fools and keep on as you are – you mean a lot to the WOS site. Hopefully it will not be long now until we all see Independence for Scotland.

    150. William Wallace says:


      Well said. 🙂 Wir no just drunken fools eftir ah 😉

    151. Mary miles says:

      God Bless you Robert P – everyone learns so much from your posts. Ignore the critism and keep on as you are – I think you mean a lot to the WOS site. Hopefully it will not be long now until we all see Independence for Scotland.

      All Scots who want Independence must support each other – United we stand, divided we fall. Everyone should remember that if one is passionate about something it is hard not to get a little heated with silly comments and does not mean any disrespect.

      Thank you so much for your contributions.

      Greetings to all from Tasmania.

    152. Thepnr says:

      @William Wallace

      The drunken fools are those that even without alcohol will entrust their lives to a Westminster government rather than choose the road to Independence for their own country.

      A Westminster government that makes them poorer while enriching those that least need it with the rest sent to foodbanks or worse even their own deaths.

      This is no exaggeration, the rich have got richer and the poorest poorer under the Tories since 2010. Even those on decent wages have got poorer as we have seen the lowest wage growth in the last decade for the last 200 years while inflation is rising.

      When will the nawbags in Scotland realise their mistake in voting No first time around for a mistake it surely was?

      We will only get one more chance at this. Let’s make it count.

    153. Cactus says:

      Nod to all ~

      In the wee sma hours and in there in between…
      things are not quite always what they seem..

      Perception. Is. Every. Thing.

      But it is all for the bon. 🙂

      Love Scotland.

      Oui X.

    154. William Wallace says:

      An acceptable degree of error said the desert plant. 😉

    155. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 1.25
      Not much longer now Robert… As Cactus was sayin @ 1.17
      Just 6 little bittie teensy % of previous no voters and it’s Union over.
      Holyrood rules and on our instruction as well….never having to wait and see what Westminster will do with our money,and what we are left with,Ever again.
      6% and Scotland’s free!
      No wonder the accusations are getting wilder!

    156. Macart says:

      Ayup. The Tories do have a track record of carrot and stick. Kind of them to confirm that the whole VAT situation was a punishment exercise by their head office though. A situation which could always have been solved by a simple piece of legislation passed by head office. Good to know who and what you’re dealing with, yes?

      Plain fact is, too many people in the UK won’t listen about now. Not the ones who follow the media slavishly and invest their votes and trust in two parties and a closed, broken system of government. No, it’s going to have to hit them in their livingrooms. They’re going to have to watch and experience the effects of brexit. Effects which will make the fall of 2008 and austerity ideology seem like the good ol’ days of plenty by comparison.

      Scotland has an option available, not an easy option, but a good and viable one. We can change our economic future for the better by taking it into our own hands.We can change our politics, making it more directly accessible and accountable to our population. We can provide a more socially just environment for our electorate. A constitution enshrining our rights, our responsibilities and those of our public servants. We can, STILL, have that future. If we want it.

      The other option? The one where we continue tae dae as wur telt, when wur telt? The outcome there is somewhat more bleak.

    157. Liz g says:

      Still Positive @ 1.20
      It’s worse than that I think…
      They are actually loaning us our own money!
      We never get to hear in all the talk of balancing the book’s how much Scotland’s put in the pot.
      But they will lend us some back…and and…if I understand it correctly we will be told what most of the rest is to be spent on…
      I sometimes wonder what our descendants will make of all of this when learning of it as history… It actually beggars belief…. As well as beggaring Scotland!

    158. Cactus says:

      Naturally, occasionally, bingingly William Wallace hehe 🙂

      preSeasons Greetings Scotland ~

      The Thirteen Days of Christmas (alternate version).

      On the thirteenth day of Christmas, somebody sent tae me:

      13 Tories (your verb)
      12 Drummers Drumming
      11 Pipers Piping
      10 Lords a Leaping
      9 Ladies Dancing
      8 Maids a Milking
      7 Swans a Swimming
      6 Geese a Laying
      5 Golden Rings
      4 Calling Birds
      3 French Hens
      2 Turtle Doves

      anna vision it’s time tae be free.


    159. Cactus says:

      Scotland is held hostage to her own many fortunes.

    160. Liz g says:

      Mary miles @ 1.58
      Well said Mary,we must all build each other up.
      We will have a country to build soon,so we will need the practice.

      And warm greetings right back to you in Tasmania..don’t be a stranger X…

    161. Thepnr says:


      As usual you hit the nail on the head. Thanks for that I needed a boost in my belief that we will do this. As we surely will.

    162. Liz g says:

      Cactus…. What are ye doing man!!!
      Ye canny be sayin the C word…it’s no December.

    163. Ruglonian says:

      Cactus – ‘your verb’ shows more restraint than I can manage! There’s only one word that’s appropriate and it’s that old “F” one 🙁

      btw does this now mean we’re officially into christmastime? *I’m not ready*

    164. Liz g says:

      Ruglonian @ 2.55
      I was mair a – W – ..

    165. Ruglonian says:

      Haha Liz!
      I was meaning what they do to the country, not using the word in it’s good sense 😉

    166. Cactus says:

      Me pardons fine ladies… is the ‘mas’ of X any better for now?! 🙂

      Aye, yer right, the end of November awaits us all first!

      See y’all there a week today (7 days).

      Thursday 30/11/17.

    167. Thepnr says:

      @Liz g

      Seriously you had me searching for the C word there from Cactus and all worried that he may be so stupid.

      Got it now LOL

    168. William Wallace says:

      Just made some lamb mince donner with home made sweet chilli, home made mint & yoghurt sauce, home made Garlic mayo (eggs the lot) and home made freshly baked – garlic and coriander naans. See ya all in heaven. 🙂

      Good night!! 🙂

    169. Cactus says:

      I think the mas of x starts when Glasgow strikes up the “new lights” on Freedom Square for (I believe) the second year running.

      Foi, where did the auld lights go Glasgow? Surely ye saved a few for the Museums. Just like they saved some of the auld carnival stuff for Glasgow’s Transport Museum.

      Down by the River Clyde.

      The River Clyde is a hostage of development too.

    170. Cactus says:

      That sounds well tasty William Wallace ~

      Garlic & coriander rules.


    171. Ruglonian says:

      Aha just picked up what you’re on about with the C word comment Alex (and here I thought I was lowering the tone) 😀

    172. Liz g says:

      Ruglonian @ 3.06
      Don’t really know why but that’s the Verb I think of every time I read Tory….tiz a puzzle!

      Cactus @ 3.06
      Thank you kind Sir, the mas of X will do nicely, after that budget …arse backwards sounds aboot right!

      Seven days from now we can all -C- away especially if it turn’s out to be the last one in this bloody Union.
      And if it does ( back me up here) the next mas of X should start in July!

    173. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 3.08
      Sorry Thepnr…it was a bit of a throw back to a discussion I had with Cactus on the night out about that very word and how people from Glasgow sometimes use it differently !
      And your first thought was right….he would never be so disrespectful as to use it here.

    174. Cactus says:

      @People of Glasgow and Scotland ~

      When did you last check your Freedom Square webcam:

      It’s busy on the square tish now.

    175. Ruglonian says:

      Liz you’ve reminded me of a young guy who had a belter of a comment for me when I chapped his door Pre-IndyRef1.
      He said “It’s cool, you don’t have to waste your time with me, I’m voting Yes cos I want to go to the biggest party the world’s ever seen!”
      His point was so pure that I just gave him a cuddle and said that I’d see him there (and I’m sure I will)

    176. Cactus says:

      Aye, ahm no ah can’t o ah kinda guy.

      Thirteen tories circumambulating.

      Next July sounds good!

      It’s the Alex Salmond Show tonight.

      RT World Service.

    177. Liz g says:

      Ruglonian @ 3.39
      Yip I don’t know anyone who is not going to that one on at least one of the nights during the months it’s happening.
      Well actually I do….Andrew Neil but everyone else is going.
      Why wouldn’t they?

    178. Cactus says:

      Here we go then, a’bodies talkin’ about it, SO who remembers memory lane from a couple of year ago?:

      The Sopranos (from about 01:17 onwards).

      Christopher is on the set.

    179. Piers Doughty-Brown says:

      Hell has no fury like a spiteful Tory!
      Let me be very clear, the withholding the Police Scotland and Fire Services ability to reclaim VAT was nothing but an act of spite against the people of Scotland and the SNP by the Tories

    180. Breeks says:

      Liz g says:
      23 November, 2017 at 2:31 am
      Still Positive @ 1.20
      It’s worse than that I think…
      They are actually loaning us our own money!
      We never get to hear in all the talk of balancing the book’s how much Scotland’s put in the pot.
      But they will lend us some back…and and…if I understand it correctly we will be told what most of the rest is to be spent on…
      I sometimes wonder what our descendants will make of all of this when learning of it as history… It actually beggars belief…. As well as beggaring Scotland!

      The U.K. has form…

      “…Here former Minister of State for India, author of Inglorious Empire, and MP for Thiruvananthapuram, Shashi Tharoor, tells LBC Drive Presenter Iain Dale why that branding (Empire 2 branding) would “go down like a lead balloon”.

      He told Iain: “Well speaking specifically about the British Empire in India, the British came to one of the richest countries in the world, and over 200 years of plunder and exploitation reduced it to one of the poorest.”

      In time, I think we will come to recognise that Scotland has fared little better. Perhaps Scotland didn’t start out rich, but the exploitation has certainly held Scotland back, and I don’t just mean McCrone’s vision of a super-wealthy Scotland, but grinding exploitation, underachievement and forced emigration over centuries.

    181. Cactus says:

      Comedy interview on shortbread there with SF&R union lady.

      Ahhhhh ha ha ha ha ha.

      Unionist donkey’s.

      Ee aw.

    182. heraldnomore says:

      Wow, Sir Jackie having a blether on the telly; and over on the wireless the England captain’s just out.

      It’s a good start to a dull Thursday.

    183. Breeks says:

      So Ireland wants the Border issue addressed or it may block a UK trade deal, and now Spain is playing the Gibraltar card, where Spain will block a trade deal until Gibraltar is sorted out.

      When can we expect Scotland to play the sovereignty card and block a trade deal, and indeed Brexit itself, until Westminster acknowledges that it has no electoral mandate or majority in Scotland, and that Scotland can and should be recognised as a sovereign interlocutor in international negotiations?

      Or are we letting the boat sail without us yet again?

    184. Cactus says:

      Shortbread again interviewee… fair play to the host, asked straight questions and got the interviewee very defensive, worked up and aggressiveive very quickly.

      “Austerity means living in your means.”

      Andrew Jones, treasury minister is a donkey.

    185. Dave Robb says:

      Another Tory balloon doesn’t have a clue. Kirstene Hair – MP for “Daddy” – blunders on re broadband. Muddle Mundell backs her.

    186. Ken500 says:

      Thanks for that Mr Peffers. Thanks for all your information. Thanks for the ‘letter’. The SNP are working hand over fist to improve the Scottish economy and doing an excellent job. In spite of the appalling detractors.

      Anyone who believes in good goverance for Scotland and support for Independence. Instead of Scotland being abuse by a bunch of ignorant incompetent lying tax evaders. Misusing and misappropriating £Billions of Scotland revenues. Anyone who attacks the SNP etc on a public forum. One of the main influential Independence supporting websites. Is cutting off their nose to spite their face and playing into the arms of the opposition. Doing their dirty work for them.

      If they want to publicly criticise the SNP they should go somewhere else to do it. Join the opposition in the MSM or the BBC giving false report every minute of every day. They can’t even go on the internet take five to ten minutes to find out a few facts. Just repeating regurgitating nonsense.

      They then attack Mr Peffers, the messenger giving out the true facts. Speak about cutting off their nose to spite their face. Totally self unaware.

      It is really annoying. Scotland is fighting for it’s life against a bunch of unelected criminals who have destroyed the world economy Since 1928, They have even sabotaged the electoral system in Scotland to get elected. Then they criticise the main people who are doing a great job of standing up for Scotland. Funding, campaigning and doing all they can. While the ‘little red hens’ stand on the sideline constantly criticising. On major forums. Doing the opposition destructive work for them. Adding to the lies. There are plenty of other places to go criticise. Multiple places. .

      The main reason Wings is successful is that unionists are banned for obvious reasons. They would destroy the site if they could. They have support of the whole MSM tax evading Non Dom criminals and the criminals at Westminster. All in it together certainly not better together. Rats in a sack. Please restrain from giving them any more support. Attacking excellent contributors like Mr Peffers. A total gem. Thanks for all you do. Scotland would be a worse place without Mr Peffers and the SNP.

      Scotland better place already because of Devolution and the SNP Gov still as popular as ever because they do the right thing and stand up for Scotland. Going in a better direction. Instead of the criminal non elected 3rd rate reject criminals. They have caused misery, death and starvation all over the world. Vote SNP/SNP and vote for Independence. Do what’s right to help the world economy. Stand up to the criminals at Westminster and the crooked appalling MSM.

      Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion.

      Most of the Westminster unionist criminals should be in jail. Breaking the Law at every opportunity. Killing and maining millions of vullnerable people. Including their own citizens. Trying to hide their criminality under the Official Secrets Act. Even child abuse. How low is that? Wasting public money like there is no tomorrow. £Trns of uneccessary debt. If it was not for the SNP goodness knows what state Scotland would be in. Right now. For many people it is nothing to do with nationalism. It is to do with right and wrong. Equality and fairness and helping others. Especially the most vulnerable.

      Scottish budget cut once again. £Billions – £20Billion a year lost to Westminster illegal misappropriation and mismanagement. Aided by the the unelected 3rd rate rejects on a flawed electoral system. Imposed on Scotland without consultation.

      Thanks once again Mr Peffers and others like you who make Wings such a brilliant sites. Simply the best. Nana etc too.

      Thank a Billion Rev Stu for all you do. Genius.

      IndyRef 2 is coming. Get ready, For a better future. Democracy actually coming to Scotland. This time it must be won for the sake of the world economy. To stop the Westminster unionist criminals killing, maiming and starving vulnerable people. Even their own fellow citizens Appalling, Send them away to think again.

    187. Sinky says:

      Broadband speeds (all down to the SNP according to Tories when it is reserved to Westminster) being discussed on BBC Radio Scotland Morning CallKaye at 9 a.m.
      Contact details
      phone 0500 92 95 00
      Sms 80295
      Email morningcallscotland [at] bbc [dot] co [dot] uk

    188. heedtracker says:

      Coffee time comedy from our imperial masters baiters. Imagine their toryboy fury, if it was a Scot, like Nic Sturgeon, not a jockbrit, but an actual Scottish leader…

      Europe needs a leader. Who will step up if Merkel goes?
      Simon Jenkins

      The German leader’s departure could bring crisis to the EU. Britain could have helped if it hadn’t jumped ship

    189. Chick McGregor says:


      Here’s the Baker’s Dozen

      13 Tories Troughing
      12 Drummers DUPing
      11 Papers Pimping
      10 Lords a Sleeping
      9 Ladies Turning
      8 Made a Milking
      7 Swines a Swanning
      6 Geese a Dayjob
      5 Golden Bungs
      4 Shooting Birds
      3 French Offends
      2 Turtle Soups

      An Apartment with Au Pair, Free.

    190. Macart says:


      Mornin’ Nana

      Mr Murphy wasn’t wrong in his article and tbf anyone with two neurones to rub together could see that Hammond was between a rock and a hardcase. Austerity will continue and become super amped by Brexit. The talk today is of 2025-30 in terms of merely tweeking the defecit, never mind looking at rapidly rising state debt.

      You can see why certain Tories want to push through hard brexit legislation though. They pretty much know fine well they can’t ‘fix’ the economy to look after the populations of the UK.

      Having control over rights and legislation of a population for the benefit of a very few is what Brexit has been about from the beginning. It’s never been about empowering the many by bringing sovereignty home (a sovereignty that was never lost or in any danger), but about empowering a few to change an economy to suit their own personal needs. They will use the power to legislate without interference or legal bindings to reshape the UK population’s rights, society, economy and legislative bodies for their own ends, their own greed. Bizarrely, what stands (stood) in their way was the fact that UK gov were signed up to incorporate constitutional and legal protections for all EU citizens (including its own). Protections for human rights, workers rights, liberties hard won across the board.

      ‘Course how they change those rights and what the outcomes will be for the vast majority of the UKs population has never been in doubt for these folk. They’ve known about the economic consequences for the populations of the UK from day 1. They simply didn’t care. Collateral damage. Trimming the fat. Making omelettes and all that. The message sold to the public however? Well, it’s all the fault of them furriners and their furriner’s ways.

      We’re not just dealing with your average empathy free, fleg wavy, bigoted, morally compromised, hypocritical Tory here. Y’know, the one who thinks they know a bit about business and folk’s place in the food chain. Oh no. No, we’re talking about the real deal, moral desert, cold hearted bastards in this instance.

      Not quite the picture painted by the right wing meeja or the political class, now is it? Mind you, no committed British nationalist type will believe it until, as I say, it hits them right in their living room. Even then it may take a while to sink in. It’ll always be someone else’s fault. Right up until there’s no one left to blame.

    191. heedtracker says:

      Pretty clear. I get regularly roasted by yoons, Scots cant make it without our Barnett dosh, which we will take back. They dont actually have “it” though. Hammond’s going for £90bn more borrowed, as the toryboy economic genius shovels more and more money upwards.

    192. Ken500 says:

      The Police could help themselves and their own budget by not putting people in cells (overnight) on false? charges which can never go to Court. Traumatising half the public and wasting half their budget. Trying to criminalise people. Especially for malicious complaint or mild misdemeanours. They might get a week end off. Supporting illegal marches every other week end. Destroying the local economy.

      Exclusive unequal, bigots, racist and misogynists being allowed to take over the streets in some areas. Bullies in influential positions. Even illegally standing for election. Not fit for public office. Breaking the electoral code of conduct. Illegally supported by public money which the police should be objecting to for the sake of public safety. As an exclusive private organisation they should march in private land and foot the bill. Breaking the Law at every opportunity, The Police might get a week end off and save money. To be put into preventative measures.

      The sports supporters who politicise sport. Or use sport for tax evasion for their illegal gain etc.criminals and perverts. Cheating the punters. No wonder the terraces are empty. HMRC not fit for purpose. Other taxpayer the majority who don’t even support certain sports clubs, for obvious reasons. The shame, drunkeness and the violence etc. Economic disadvantages. They have to pick up the bill of the degradation and affront. Just as well something is finally being done about it. OFBA. It could be improved but at least it works. To weed out the perpetrators and act as a deterrent. Discourage others from following the worst examples.

    193. Nana says:


      The more I read, the more horrified I become. Hammond knows exactly what is coming, and had he a decent bone in his body he would be telling all. But he is of course part of the problem and will likely gain from Brexit.

    194. Les Wilson says:

      I think the SNP do have a very hard working crew at Wastemonger.

      However, now having official acceptance that the VAT issue was a political choice, thereby making the taken £140 million theft, the SNP should now start to show total disrespect for her majesty’s government en mass.

      If the SNP legals think this was illegal and the keeping of the funds would thus be illegal, then we should take them to court.

      While I accept the SNP are the best government Scotland has ever had, by a country mile. I do think they need to start being much more vocal, and shout the wrongs from the roof, by megaphone.

      Point is the public need to be aware just how crooked Wastemonger is, and reinforce very loudly what is going on and make a number of no’s turn over to yes, we do not need huge numbers to make the difference but the more the merrier.

      Yes Scotland is just awaiting an Indy date, they are stirring and people are mentally getting ready.
      For the SNP, they need to just keep pushing and yes shouting just how badly we are cheated.

      Oil is once more an issue,remember the 70’s ” It is Scotland’s oil” Let’s do that again too.
      Hopefully Indy will be the result.

    195. heedtracker says:

      And in slide STV tory liars. Very creepy bunch that lot,

      Hammond told MPs: “The SNP knew the rules, they knew the consequences of introducing these bodies and they ploughed ahead anyway.

      “My Scottish Conservative colleagues have persuaded me that the Scottish people should not lose out because of the obstinacy of the SNP government.”

      Any vile sep view STV?


    196. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thepnr says: 23 November, 2017 at 1:59 am:

      ” … This is no exaggeration, the rich have got richer and the poorest poorer under the Tories since 2010.”

      It was actually under the Labour, (Red Tories), that a start was made to deliberately widen the gap between the richest and the poorest of society and it was a well known economic fact.

      At that time the tax system in the United Kingdom was mainly by the direct taxation of mainly taxing income and wealth. That is by PAYE, (Pay As You Earn), or Income TAX.

      There was then what was known as, “Purchase Tax”, which was only levied upon things like expensive fur coats like Mink and Ermine, on expensive imported perfumes and expensive cars and other imported items that only the rich could afford to buy.

      It was a very well understood economic fact that direct taxation places the main burden of taxation upon those most able to pay tax while indirect taxation is the reverse.

      It was under the Labour government taxation moved from direct to indirect taxation. This was by the use of such as Road Fuel Duty, Alcohol Duty, Tobacco Duty, and the introduction of VAT.

      This, of course, coincided with replacing the previous Purchase Tax with VAT and was obviously thus not just the goods and services only bought by the rich being taxed but on the basic essentials that everyone needs to survive.

      The combination of increasing the indirect taxation while stopping most of the direct taxation moved the main burden of paying tax from those who could best afford to pay it to those less able to pay it and is thus a Labour Government gift to the richest at the expense of the poorest.

      The Tories were, obviously delighted and every Tory government since then has begun their term in office by immediately increasing the indirect taxation but also bringing more items under the indirect tax VAT system. They have also always cut the top direct tax rates and changed the tax allowance bands.

      For some strange reason the man/woman on the street still seems to be of the impression that income tax is the main tax while the truth is income tax is of least importance now.

      The treasury gets most of its revenue by indirect taxation now and direct taxation is increasingly unimportant. Which is why the present Tory Government have cynically devolved the direct tax of Income Tax to the Scottish Government.

    197. galamcennalath says:

      Powers over broadband could have been handed over to Holyrood at Smith. I have no doubt most submissions to the Commission would have included it. Holyrood does not have control of broadband implementation because the Unionists themselves kept it reserved.

      The new Unionist MPs need to shout at WM, for a change, and stop shouting on behalf of WM!

    198. Ken500 says:

      The Tories are on a hiding to nothing as the economy tanks because of Brexit. So will they. Labour the useless article that they are – are abstaining. The tipping point will come soon. Be ready for IndyRef 2 which must be and can won for the sake of the world economy.

      Brexit is not supported by the majority in the U.K. who want to stay in the EU.

      The EU used by Westminster criminals to detract from their disastrous, dangerous decisions. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Causing the worst migration crisis since 11WW. The tipping point is coming soon.

      They are even telling lies about the UK negative (rebate) contribution, The EU will continue on prosperously and productively supporting the less able and more vulnerable. For growth and prosperity. The UK economy will tank and is tanking further without the advantages of full EU membership. The galling part is the Tory criminals are embezzling public money and tax evading gaining from other people’s misery. They are the most disgusting people. No wonder no one joins their party, especially in Scotland.

    199. As others have already pointed out the rich also got very rich under the previous Labour Government.
      More millionaires were created than under Thatcher.

      So its rather rich(pun intended) for Labour politicians to complain about the rich getting even richer under the Tories.

    200. galamcennalath says:

      The Alex Samond Show this morning (recorded and now watched) looked at Brexit with Alastair Campbell. Some excellent points made. Like Indy, people are allowed to change their minds and one vote does not settle ‘the will of the people’ forever.

      The UK faces abject humiliation, or will it just be plain humiliation?

    201. Ottomanboi says:

      We are hostages to any misfortune the anglo-centric BrexitState might choose, with our seeming supine cooperation, to visit upon us. As someone notable once wrote, what is to be done?

    202. manandboy says:

      How’s this for brainwashing. This is a genuinely held belief, sincerely expressed, ‘Scotland needs everything Westminster can give it.’

      It would be easier to persuade the North Korean army to vote for Donald Trump than to get Scottish unionists to vote for Independence.

    203. Ken500 says:

      The SNP are vocal as they can be, it is just a pity too many people are ignorant and manipulated. Many now being educated, The young Ines. The 5% usctitalky do able. It is the people who are not willing to become more informed and vote for their rights. Extended broadband cover financed by the Scottish Gov £400,000 will help put up Independence support as people learn the truth. It will rake time like everything else. It is quite an undertaking because of the landscape. Not helped by Westminster historical under investment in Scotland taking resources and depopulating Scotland. Continued under the Brexit programme of illegally chucking investors out of Scotland. After illegally changing the rules.

      Do not support the BBC. Boycott it. No listeners/viewers no programnes. Any programmes that give offence. Boycott. Do do not support. Just a mess of stemming nonsense. Totally annoying regurgitated nonsense. £3.7Billion of it. An arm of a right wing minority government. False propaganda. Half is going to upkeep the acquired estate, Not on programmes Perverted misogynistic non impartial. Illegally breaking every code and contract. Tax evaders and perverts. Just like their Westminster bastard masters. Over paid lying prima donnas. Destroying the world economy.

      Westminster gave the extended broadband contract £2Billion to BT. For donations? How was it distributed? They were fined consistently for bad workmanship etc, BT was losing £2Billion on an illegal Italian subsidiary. The Chairman did not resign for malpractice but gave up the extravagant bonus. A smalll concession. Another waste of public money.

      How low can the Tory – unionist go? More lies,

    204. Another Union Dividend says:

      Great budget article by Iain MacWhirter in Herald

      BBC GMS Call Kaye on broadband ignored fact that communications is reserved and no mention of UK Tory lies on the subject.

    205. galamcennalath says:

      Ottomanboi says:

      We are hostages to any misfortune the anglo-centric BrexitState might choose … what is to be done?

      Launch the lifeboats and abandon ship, then head straight for a safe shore.

      Call IndyRef2 and win it. The UK many voted to stay with has disappeared beneath the waves. It has gone. In 2014 many saw the UK as the safe option and Indy as the risky one. We need to campaign for IndyRef2 selling the message that the opposite is now true.

    206. TheWasp says:

      Les Wilson @ 9.25

      I completely agree with your post. If we knew we were being lied to, cheated and being disrespected in our personal lives, I know I for one wouldn’t hesitate to call people out on it, as a lifetime working in industry teaches you that if you don’t stand up for yourself you will be shat on, and that is exactly what is being done by Westminster now.

    207. heedtracker says:

      As someone notable once wrote, what is to be done?

      Just keep talking to people around you. If you hear someone moaning about something like say pay or work conditions, or law, or anything, just step in and say, vote YES indyref2.

      I exaggerate for effect but do that. Scots seem to get so set in their ways, tolerate all kinds of shite that would kick off revolutions anywhere else.

      That’s what Scottish democracy is too, revolutionary. Because it will put power back where it belongs, with us, not a toryboy elite and their gimpy beeb led media.

      Never forget, this is what England’s faux progressive liberals really think about Scottish democracy. Its all you really need to know about how powerful we can be

    208. TheItalianJob says:

      Thanks Ken500 on your post of support to this site, the Rev and especially our own Robert Peffers.

      Read all the posts last night unjustly attacking Robert and his concise replies to those same people.

      Again thanks to Robert and others on here we learn so much more that we don’t need to bother with any MSM news and articles as we get all the “real News” and views on this site.

      Robert Peffers is a unique and important contributor to this site whom I respect and doff my cap to.

      Keep up the good work.

    209. scottieDog says:

      Here’s one thing to be done. Share this far and wide..
      Bit crude in bits but worth watching..

    210. Mike says:

      When you control the media you can do and say what you want and have it advertised as divine.

    211. heedtracker says:

      Robert Peffers is a unique and important contributor to this site whom I respect and doff my cap to.

      Seconded. Give em hell Rabbie!

    212. Brian Powell says:

      On the budget and the scrapping of VAT for police and fire services. The Tories in Scotland and Hammond saying he listened to them, trumpeting it was them that saved the day, requires the supposedly left leaning large majority in Scotland to accept that the Tories have their interests at heart.

      Will that succeed? I mean among Labour voters, the Labour politicians are so fossilised in their hatred of the SNP they will accept anything. they cling to the insane delusional hope that all will be OK for them again when ‘everything returns to normal”.

    213. Ken500 says:

      Under Labour £600Billion was raised in taxes, £120Billion borrowed. – £720Billion. (Without mentioning what they did with it) The poor illegal undemocratic decision that were made.

      Under the Tories £533Billion is raised. £100Billion borrowed. £633Billion 7 years later. No growth and more borrowing.

      Without mentionig the negatives they have done with it. They do not raise enough in the rest of the UK to pay for essential services. and the other bad investments decisions they make. Like Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident, Heathrow etc, To fund their own pockets and their associates pockets. in donations, consultancy fees, bank charges and fees etc. The most unequal society in the world.

      Then they cut essential services to fund all these uneccessary wasteful projects, Totally bad mismanagement and poor decisions. Then raid Scottish resources to pay for their total mismanagement and poor decisions. Non democratic etc. Limited democracy only came to Scotland in 2000. The fight for full democracy is still not finished.

      Scotland raises £54Billion+ despite the Westminster – useless articles – doing everything it can to destroy the Scottish economy with it’s mismanaging misappropriating decision. The £Billions wasted.The rest of the UK raises £45Billion pro rata and borrows £10Billion (pro rata more)

      It is not just what is raised but how it is spent. Scotland does not have that democratic right. It’s decision made by politicans not elected in Scotland. Often malicious unfair and unequal decisions which have depopulated Scotland. By cynical politicians who know they do not need support from Scotland to gain power aided by sychophant chancers in Scotland. Trying to keep it secret under the Official Secrets Act. Their criminal behaviour,

      Illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud. The Tories want out of the EU so they can continue to tax evade and rob the public purse. Even though they tank the world economy and cause misery to millions.

      Scotland’s voice now being heard all over the world. Alex Salmond. Beating them at their own game. The Westminster criminals do not like it one bit.

    214. starlaw says:

      Westminster never at any time wanted communication between the working class. In the General Strike the nationalised the news papers, then Telephones were priced out of reach, though other countries had no problem letting ordinary people have them. Then we got a second class phone system party lines etc. Then the CB radio which the ruling class desperately tried to shut down, finally allowing a pretty useless one. The Mobile Phone would have also been banned but the World Leading telecommunication companies forced the issue. Or we would not have had that. Now its Broadband and again the state is in control.

    215. gus1940 says:

      Re the Tory claims that the scrapping of the Sottish Police and Fire VAT is down to the pressure exerted by Ruth’s band of super new MPs – can anybody remember any occasion when any of them brought the matter up on the floor of the house?

    216. The Ultra Unionist Fraser Whyte at the yoon blog `these Islands` had this to say about the VAT stooshie,(previous to budget),

      “Somewhat ironically, were the Scottish Tories to succeed where the SNP have thus far failed, they may do little more than leave the Treasury open to accusations that their earlier decision was entirely unnecessary, perhaps even politically motivated.”

      wonder if he has commented about yesterdays stitch up.

    217. gus1940 says:

      RE yesterday’s War Crimes sentencing – 2 days ago The Guardian featured as their long article a horrific account of the atrocities that have been and continue to be committed in the battle for Mosul (not by Daesh but by the Iraqui Army ‘liberation’ forces).

      The article is obviously no longer on the Guardian on-line daily paper but can be found by Googling ‘Guardian Mosul Atrocities’.

      The proximate cause of said atrocities can obviously be laid at the door of Blair, Brown and their US Masters all of whom are long overdue an appearance at The ICC – of course Bush had the foresight soon after his election to refuse to sign up to The ICC obviously in anticipation of his administration’s future war crimes.

      Please access and read the above article but bear in mind that it is horrific.

    218. TD says:

      Robert Peffers at 9:27a.m.

      I agree with the broad sentiment of your post about direct versus indirect taxation. However, I do need to correct one factual inaccuracy – VAT was not introduced by the red tories. It was introduced by the true blue tories in 1973.

      It was a requirement of joining the Common Market that we adopted the European model of indirect taxation. While I am something of a Europhile, I think on this, Europe had it wrong and still has it wrong. Direct taxation (income tax) is a far fairer way of raising revenue as it relates to ability to pay and can be adjusted through tax bands and variable rates to relieve the burden on the poorest while increasing the burden for the richest. That can only be right.

      VAT on the other hand is the same irrespective of ability to pay. I pay the same tax on a tube of toothpaste as a multi-millionaire. We probably both use the same amounts of toothpaste, but as a proportion of disposable income, I am paying a far higher percentage in tax than the rich guy. That cannot be right.

      I do however blame the red tories for creating the situation where the current unfair system could be implemented. The Wilson/Callaghan government of 1974 to 1979 imposed income tax rates up to 98% for the wealthiest. I am in favour of higher income tax rates, but that was too much. This allowed the incoming Thatcher government to cut income tax and increase indirect taxes with little or no challenge. Labour learnt the lesson, incorrectly in my view, that to get elected they had to promise not to increase income tax. So when they got elected in 1997, they stuck to their promise and did not increase income tax. They increased all the indirect taxes, including VAT, instead.

      Since 1997 and until very recently, it has been accepted political wisdom that income tax is a no go area. Even our own SNP have only just started to consider raising it as a means of funding services. It’s true that the Labour party Scottish accounting unit and wee Wullie’s lot have suggested increasing income tax by a penny in Scotland, but this really would have been tinkering round the edges of the issue and as they both knew they would not get elected, they could put anything on the table. The blue tories of course remain implacably opposed to addressing society’s problems by the fairest means – i.e. taxation according to ability to pay. Says it all really.

      In the independent Scotland that I dream of, income tax will be reinstated as the principal source of public funding and indirect taxes such as VAT will be reduced. There is a case for having variable rates of VAT – so luxury items would be taxed at a higher rate while essential everyday items such as cleaning products would be taxed at a very low rate. Such a regime would be fair, progressive and would give the poor a chance. At the moment, I can only dream of such a society.

    219. Jack Murphy says:

      The Budget:
      “UK economy faces ‘longest fall in living standards in 60 years’ ”

      “The UK is on course for its longest fall in living standards since records began over 60 years ago, the Resolution Foundation think tank has said.

      Its post-Budget analysis says the squeeze on incomes is set to last longer than that which followed the post-2008 crash.

      It says real disposable incomes are now set to fall for 19 successive quarters.” 🙁

      BBC Business.

    220. Ken500 says:

      Basically if the ignorant incompetent Tories and the airhead abstainers. Cut the most grotesque unaffordable projects of no value. No one wants. Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident and Heathrow and funded, reliable, feasible alternatives (renewable alternatives). £30Billion a year of borrowing.

      Instead funded Funded Education, NHS, Vulnerable people, essential services instead. £13Billion. Stopped killing their own citizens and maiming millions over the world. Costing £Billions.

      Everyone would be much better off. The Westminster criminals would not have to be continually illegally taking mismanaging and misappropriating Scottish resources.

      Or alternatively people in Scotland just keep on campaigning and gaining their equality and rights. Denied by unelected Westminster sychophants not voted for in Scotland.

      Moray electorate are getting what the voted for cuts. Suck it up. Instead of the wealthier paying a slight increase in Council tax after 9 years of relief.

    221. galamcennalath says:

      Looks like EU27 politicians have a rather low opinion of the UK’s Tories.

      “The near contempt felt by European leaders at the British government’s management of the Brexit negotiations, and their concerns over the “unimpressive” and “surprising” behaviour of Boris Johnson and David Davis, have been revealed “

      We think they are bunch of plonkers, clearly the EU27 share the same view. What does that say about the folks who voted them in to represent their interests!?

      Who in their right mind could vote for Boris ‘Bumbling’ Johnson?

    222. Ken500 says:

      VAT is regulated thoughout the EU (average 20%) for free trade and fairness, Corporation tax (average 20%). Practically the only tax consideration within the EU. For free trade and fairness.

      Except now tackling obscene tax evasion. Patents and copywrite. Multinationals (US) making vast profits. Patents and copyright. Creating monopolies and charging what they like. (for inadequate products?). Then not paying taxes. Breaking trade rules. Banishing legitimate competition which could under cut them. Not free equal or fair. Tax havens illegally created by Thatcher and supported by Westminster Gov. Creating an unequal world and mass starvation, wars and misery. The reason the Tories want out of the EU to continue to unfairly tax evade. The UK the most unequal place in the world.

      Trident will be going on Brexit. The US did not want it here. Planted by McMillian secretly and illegally in Scotland. Polluting the world. Nuclear waste planted in Scotland. Now being flown around the world. Obscene. Nuclear banned 20 miles from London in 1992.

    223. call me dave says:

      Travelling by car this morning I had the uneasy feeling that I should not listen in to ‘Your Call’ subject

      Broadband speeds in Scotland.

      Twice she (Kaye) read out statements from Fergus Ewing that he had issued about the SG intentions and progress made to date.

      Twice she scoffed and challenged him to phone in to defend his statements. She had free rein apportion all blame to the SG and SNP bad inferring the Smith Commission handed all the powers to Scotland.

      I thought that WM retained all the powers and decided that BT open reach would retain all the infrastructure and that the SG had had to step in and used ‘additional monies’ to hasten the process because it had not gone well.

      I am not up to speed on the finer details, but found this recent article. Anybody better informed.

      Anyhoo! Job done…Good old Auntie. 🙁

    224. cuilean says:

      The Tories voted against the Green amendment to Brexit Withdrawal Bill that animals are sentient beings, which experience emotion and feel pain, hunger, heat & cold, so cannot be treated as inanimate goods or in animate belongings. In other words, they have basic animal rights.

      All thirteen Tory Scottish MPs voted against the amendment and are therefore against basic animal rights. So congratulations to anyone who voted Tory to ‘stop a second indyref’ as you just voted for 13 plonkers, who if they can be made to vote for this cruelty, will vote through anything their party masters orders. Scottish Tory lobby fodder.

    225. Ken500 says:

      Scotland gained nothing from the recent budget. It lost £250Million and the rest. Hidden off the balance sheet. £Billions.

      Vote NO you get nothing.

    226. Ken500 says:

      Some of the numpties in the MSM who can’t even go on the internet and find out a few facts. Instead of regurgitating nonsense. Starting to waken up. Not before time. Desperation sinking in as the economy tanks, They could be out of a job?

    227. Ken500 says:

      A complete ignorant numpty. A ‘loose woman’. A position gained through Labourite nepotism. Like most of the MSM in Scotland. Anyone who listens to the nonsense deserves all that get. Except if they want a laugh. A bad joke. Putting up the rating is regrettable. There are vast amounts of other entertainment.

      Desperate for Fergus Ewing to engage to try and put up the rating giving crediblity to the nonsense. The unjustified, no doubt tax evade salary. Kaye the failing white noise. Non representative. No points.

    228. heedtracker says:

      Woohoo! from the DC Thomson liggers that routinely destroy Scottish democracy, raged against YES 2014, an “exclusive.”

    229. Proud Cybernat says:

      BREAKING from Pravda Quay
      with Jackie Kim Ono

    230. Thepnr says:

      Totally O/T

      Just opened Wings and got this strange mesage. Weird, maybe I should never have taken the tinfoil hat off 🙂

      Hide targeted messages?

      This site has been known to show targeted messages to AdBlock users. Do you want AdBlock to hide targeted messages?

      Link below shows the message as it would appear on your screen.

    231. Ken500 says:

      Dugdale once again disrespecting Scotland for loads of MSM tainted cash. Greedy sychophant,

      How low can she go. What a waster. A criminal.

      Does she think it is funny? What an affront. Laughing on the other side of her vacant coupon when her and her Party lose more votes at Holyrood.

    232. Legerwood says:

      TD says:
      23 November, 2017 at 11:43 am
      Robert Peffers at 9:27a.m.

      I agree with the broad sentiment of your post about direct versus indirect taxation. However, I do need to correct one factual inaccuracy – VAT was not introduced by the red tories. It was introduced by the true blue tories in 1973.

      When VAT was introduced in 1973 as part of our membership of the Common Market, as it then was, it replaced the UK’s own
      Tax – Purchase Tax – which was much much higher than the VAT tax especially on so called luxury goods e.g. ‘fridges.

      Purchase tax was introduced in the 1940s and was set at 33% for luxury goods. Introducing VAT at 8% and 10% for luxury goods was quite a saving.

    233. Les Wilson says:

      Thepnr says:

      I have just had the same message.A page from Google warning I was going to be redirected to the reddit site, then saying do you want to proceed. Google is now being weaponised.

      Have had lots of internet problems today. Could not get on facebook, Reddit, or my email.
      Done all the scans nothing found, it seems to appear as US internet or links and from the Uk maybe an issue.

    234. Robert Peffers says:

      @One_Scot says: 23 November, 2017 at 11:33 am:

      “Anyone looking for the Alex show,
      Jackie Stewart, what a man.”

      Thanks for that link, One Scot. I had forgotten to watch the show being right up to my ears in other matters.

      Anyhow it is nice that Alex Salmond is showing the Yoon Goons how a mainly political show should be run.

      It chimed just right with an article I had been reading and my thoughts went like this:-

      “Helen Boaden, the Director, BBC News gave a speech at VLV Annual Spring Conference on Tuesday 12 April 2011.

      She began thus:-

      “When I enter Broadcasting House, my eyes are often drawn to the BBC’s motto, inscribed beneath its coat of arms. It reads, of course, “nation shall speak peace unto nation”.

      Our motto goes back to the BBC’s formation, on 1 January 1927, when it was adopted by the new Corporation to signify its purpose. (Incidentally, it’s said to be an adaptation from the Book of Micah: “nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more”.

      I would suggest that the BBC, that began, and remains, a bought and paid for propaganda weapon of the Westminster parliament of The United Kingdom and not as they like to portray themselves as an independent unbiased broadcaster of all Britain, (The clue to both lies is in their title, “The BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation”. They began by the application of a Royal Charter but in 1688 the Kingdom of England, that even then was comprised of three distinct countries, deposed their true monarch who was also the monarch of the still independent Kingdom of Scotland and invited to ascend to the throne of the English Kingdom the foreign King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange but started the wars they wrongly belled as the Jacobite Rebellions. Factually it was the Westminster Parliamentarians who were the actual rebels who rebelled against their Monarch and the Jacobites were fighting for the restoration of the monarchy of Scotland that Westminster illegally assumed they had deposed but Scotland remained independent until 1706/7 and the Treaty of Union.

      So the so called independent company, “The British Broadcasting Corporation”, was factually never independent as their heads were UK government appointees and the, “Corporation”. always funded by a grant from the Westminster Treasury for in 1688 the rebelling English parliamentarians forced their imported monarchy to legally delegate their Royal Sovereignty to the Westminster Parliament of the English Kingdom. Thing is that the last actual parliament of the Kingdom of England sat for the last time on the last day of April 1707.

      Anyway, in 1927 the United Kingdom Government that had just been involved in WWI from 1914 to 1918 granted a Royal Charter to the BBC and Westminster has been granting the BBC an annual grant ever since for services rendered. Your licence fee does not go directly to the BBC it goes directly into the Westminster Treasury coffers. What you get for your fee is permission from Westminster to view live broadcasts from any source and it says so on that licence – go read it.

      So since 1927 the BBC that has the motto, “nation shall speak peace unto nation”, is the first and longest lasting BBC lie. Because the government they work for has been almost consistently involved in a war of some kind or another since the day that motto was first adopted.”

    235. Les Wilson says:

      Thepnr says:

      I have just had the same message.A page from Google warning I was going to be redirected to the reddit site, then saying do you want to proceed. Google is now being weaponised.

      Have had lots of internet problems today. Could not get on facebook, Reddit, or my email.

      Done all the scans nothing found, it seems to appear as US internet or links and from the Uk maybe an issue.

    236. geeo says:

      Dugdale boasting she will be giving here MSP salary to charity while she is away neglecting the day job, no mention of the 6 figure fee of course…!!

      Permission for leave of absence…Refused.

      Constituents…Ignored and disrespected.

      Sanctions fpr doing so ? Dont be stupid.

    237. Abulhaq says:

      The conservative estimate for the restoration of the London parliament building is £5,7bn and would take a generation to complete. The building’s structure is crumbling, contains toxic material, obsolete utilities and is liable to fire risk. Anyone got a match?

    238. Dr Jim says:

      First Ministers questions is over our heads and we are just switching off and not trusting politicians says *Ian I will say anything you want for money “journalist” McWhirter*

      We should listen to “journalists” coz like they’re really trusted eh


    239. Legerwood says:

      A brief history of VAT including Purchase tax as well as information on some of the rates applied outwith the EU

      It was Gordon Brown when Chancellor who increased the number and extent of the indirect taxes – the so called stealth taxes.

      If you shop in Lidl then your shopping bill indicates the VAT rate on each item so you can see what is zero rated, what has an intermediate rate – 7.5% I think – and what incurs the full rate.

    240. Bob Mack says:

      IFS currently destroying the Tory budget. Austerity for another 20 years with no wage growth.

      Still saying No ?

    241. Dr Jim says:

      This is not a spoof:
      Kezia Dugdales first challenge tonight is to rummage through a tank of fish guts named *Sickola Sturgeon*

      The contents of the other tanks of stuff have names like a nice gentle Margaret Scratcher

      We don’t want to offend the English voter by referring to their previous political choices by anything too offensive now do we

    242. TheItalianJob says:

      Yeah! Welcome back Thepnr. I always liked that name including your avatar.

    243. Ken500 says:

      The unionist Thomson Press. Suck it up. Helped ruin the economy of the NE for years. To fund a bankrupt football team. Family tax evaders? Suck it up, suckers, as your living standards go down the drain. Who buys the nonsense? Suckers. The Tories killing off their members/voters. The elderly. Aiding their own demise. Regrettable.

    244. Andy-B says:

      Combat Stress announces TV presenter Neil Oliver as its ambassador in Scotland.

      The hair flicking wannabe historian who called independence a cancer is no ambassador in my eyes.

    245. Free Scotland says:

      For anyone who missed it, tune in to today’s FMQs and hear Queen Nicola taking down Murdo Fraser. Made my day.

    246. TheItalianJob says:


      Your on fire today Ken500.

    247. geeo says:

      That moment when a unionist tells you the SNP are “on the way out”, and you have a wee bit spare time to respond…

      Fiona Adams Taylor from Aberdeen claimed “peak SNP”

      Here was my response (still waiting on a response from Fiona..)

      “Oh dear.

      Wee lesson for poor deluded Fiona.

      There IS NO “Unionist” Party.

      There are 3 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT political parties who have support for the union as a common goal.

      That DOES NOT mean that you can compare SNP performance against ALL 3 COMBINED as a benchmark of SNP success or failure.

      In politics, you either WIN elections, or you LOSE elections.

      In the last 6 (SIX) Domestic elections, at WM HOLYROOD and COUNCIL level, the SNP have ABSOLUTELY cleared house.

      Lets have a wee look at recent results, since you claim a decline.

      In the GE of 2015, the SNP won 95% (56/59) of ALL SEATS available (Scotland) to them.

      This is THE greatest election success in uk political history.

      This was less than 1 year after Scotland voted No in an independence referendum and 8 YEARS of SNP control at Holyrood.

      It would have been reasonable to assume the unionists would have got a great result from that 2015 election after “saving” their union.

      Yet unionism politics were completely REJECTED.

      So…on to 2016 and the Holyrood election.

      A lot of fuss was made by unionists about the SNP losing the absolute majority of 2011.

      However, as anyone with a basic understanding of politics knows, the Holyrood voting system was set up to make it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to win a majority.

      The 2011 result was a freak result, it beat a carefully planned system and is unlikely to ever happen again.

      Having said that, what unionists neglect to mention, is how close the SNP came to actually repeating that miracle result and gaining another majority.

      The SNP were ONLY 2 seats short of that majority.

      This after 9 YEARS in power.

      So…2017 Council Elections.

      In 2012, the SNP won a majority of Councillors, winning by 31 seats over labour, this after 5 years in power.

      However, in 2016, the SNP won a majority of councillors again, but won by 155 seats over the tories in 2nd, this after 9 YEARS in power.

      And finally, the Snap GE of 2017.

      This was an election with no manifesto on independence nor a referendum from the SNP.

      They already have a legally and democratically mandated indyref mandate from THE ONLY PLACE YOU CAN WIN ONE…HOLYROOD 2016.

      The SNP, despite a rabid unionist “vote tory/labour/lib dem to oppose an indyref” ticket, WON THE ELECTION in Scotland with 35 seats, 11 (ELEVEN) MORE SEATS THAN ALL 3 UNIONIST PARTIES COMBINED.

      Of course it was down on 2015, it is ridiculous to think ANYONE would win 95% of seats available twice.

      The 35 seats however, represents 60% of ALL seats in Scotland.

      That is STILL a landslide victory by any definition of the word.

      Votes share does not mean a thing in a GE, it is seats that count as success, due to the nonsense FPTP system, which the SNP oppose, despite it meaning that 56 seat success would have been impossible.

      All this after 10 YEARS in power.

      There is not a scrap of evidence that the SNP support is waning.

      Election results are the yardstick of success or failure, and the SNP are a country mile ahead of ANY and EVERY other political party.

      The only way unionists like you, Fiona, can make the situation look a wee bit better is to COMBINE ALL UNIONIST votes and seats together.

      Perhaps you should lobby the 3 unionist parties to join forces as a single Scottish Unionist Party and see how that works out for them…?

      Of course, in 2015 and 2011, the SNP won more votes AND more seats than ALL unionist parties COMBINED, so i wouldn’t hold your breath on that one, Fiona.

      As a footnote, which party (single party mind, thats how it works) will beat the SNP in the future, and when do you think that will happen ?

      Over to you, Fiona”…

    248. geeo says:

      Did i mention that Fiona, from my above post, is a street campaigner for …wait for it…Scotland In Union…!!

      Now her claims make sense..har har..!

    249. Petra says:

      @ Andy-B at 2:45pm …. “Oliver Scottish Ambassador for War Veterans.’

      He says he “admires the Armed Forces.” I’m sure he does but notice that he hasn’t joined them. Would rather just ponce around flicking his hair about. He seems to be quite happy with the fact that they’ve been used as cannon fodder for the beloved Union that he supports. A country that’s been at War for the best part of the last 150 years or so (probably longer). A country that doesn’t give a monkeys for Veterans from seeing them go homeless, having to rely on charity, attend foodbanks, Scots rejected by the English NHS and cutting their pensions overall. Scottish Ambassador? Great choice. Oliver the wee Scottish hypocrite. Oliver the millionaire. Let’s see how much of his own money he donates to the cause.

    250. Meg merrilees says:

      Looks like Neil Oliver is becoming the face of Bitter Together for the next campaign….
      NTS and now Combat Stress – think Kezia would have been perfect for that role!

    251. There can only be two explanations. Either Ruth Davidson and those aroun her sniff laughing gas as a buzz before FMQ each week, or they are as mad as Caligula.
      How else do we explain their inane cackling laughter every week, even when debating the most serious of topics?
      She comes across as the most insincere heartless egoist every time.
      I love the Red Tory Branch Office’s new front three forward line, Sarwar, Lennon, and that guy who won the leadership ding dong whose name and grey face still elude me.
      James Kelly and Murdo Fraser must be vie for being the biggest political plonker in Christendom every week.
      Oor Nicola must get right teed off using Fraser as the mop head and Kelly the handle as she mops the floor with them.
      What a waste of our tax pounds these two bigots are.
      Murdo Fraser in particular comes across as a complete idiot. Does Ruth not even vet her own members questions at FMQ? Or is she just as thick as Murdo?

    252. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Whenever, and today is not the first time this has happened, Mad Mental Murdo Fraser and Jings its James Kelly – the two MSPs who are perhaps the best-known politician supporters of what many of term: “the twa cheeks o’ the bigotry erse” – ie Rangers and Celtic – follow each other at FMQs, I get a vision of the old Glasgow Empire’s response to Mike and Bernie Winters: “Oh fuck, there’s twa o’ them.”

    253. Thepnr says:


      Thanks for the welcome back, much appreciated. I’m happy to be “back” I guess the truth is I’m probably more comfortable wearing this skin. It served me well in the past debunking Unionist myths and I intend to carry on in that vein.


      Good post, I’d love it if we had an amalgamated single Unionist party to defeat in Scotland.

      The Scottish National Party would continue to wipe the floor with them but with a BIGGER margin.

    254. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. the chancellor’s failure to reject austerity. That’s ideological vandalism of civil society, that is. These “New Right” psychos will not be happy until they have privatised the air we breath and enslaved society within the paradoxically illiberal paradigm of the ‘minimal state’.

      Class Inequality in Austerity Britain: Power, Difference and Suffering

      Within the whirlwind of media output which highlights the hardships generated by “austerity”, alongside the continued repetition of images of the underserving poor embedded within TV shows such as “Benefits Street”, the collection of chapters presented in Class Inequality in Austerity Britain brings to the forefront some of the real challenges and issues which are faced by people living in disadvantaged communities today. Media representations of those hit hardest by the financial crash in the UK tend to introduce the viewer or reader to previously stable and secure middle class households who now struggle to maintain the lifestyle to which they are accustomed. The challenges experienced by disadvantaged communities are the starting point of the discussion which runs throughout this book. In doing so it brings to the reader considered analysis of how individuals and households experience a range of psycho-social harms, within a context of long-term neo-liberal politics.

      Psycho politics, neoliberal governmentality and austerity


      Benefit claimants have been at the focal point of neoliberal economic policy under successive governments for nearly twenty-five years, but the banking crisis of 2008 reinvigorated government attempts to cut benefit spending. This has deepened divisions and inequalities in British society, as disabled people and those with mental health problems unable to work, are coerced by an increasingly authoritarian regime to seek low-paid work or unsuitable jobs based in zero hours contracts. One consequence of these developments is a resurgence of interest in the ideas of Peter Sedgwick, whose book Psycho Politics, set out a Marxist critique of antipsychiatry (including Foucault’s early work) and the consequences of neoliberalism for people with mental health problems.

      This paper outlines Sedgwick’s main arguments, and together with Foucault’s later work, questions the underlying principles of neoliberalism. Of particular significance is a shift in the governmental function of psychology and psychotherapy from the employed to the unemployed. This is exemplified by the use of psychocompulsion, a set of theories and practices aimed at reducing the numbers of benefit claimants. Finally, the paper examines the difficulties in developing alliances between mad people and others opposed to benefit cuts. It ends with a brief account of the resistance to neoliberal austerity by the radical mental health survivor group, Recovery in the Bin.

      Neoliberal Austerity & the Corruption of Capitalism

    255. Les Wilson says:

      geeo says:

      A great reply to give, factual and straight to the point.

    256. Meg merrilees says:

      Many thanks to Robert Peffers for the link to Alex’s show on RT today.

      Again another brilliant programme. Fascinating to hear about Jackie Stewart’s learning difficulties and hope that will be an inspiration for others.
      But wow- not a fan of Alastair Campbell but that was a powerful contribution.

      And shocking that we didn’t hear as iota about the Arctic Circle Forum on our doorstep. I can understand it if it had taken place in Reykjavik or Helsinki but it was in Scotland!!!

      Alex is providing excellent guests – show’s you just how many times we are getting the same old politicians , same old angle on our screens.

      The next few weeks will be fascinating to watch as his plan unfurls.

    257. K1 says:

      Yep geeo, glad you put it all in one handy post, I have just copied that for my files, as ah often forget the actual numbers et al…brilliant riposte to any and all who claim the SNP are on the way out…yeah…way out ahead of all the other parties bar none.

      Well done you!

    258. geeo says:


      I should copy these type of things but i always either forget to, or copy them but delete them accidently…

    259. Cactus says:

      Aweright Chick McGregor ~

      Ah liked yer Tory Troughing Baker’s Dozen. 🙂

      Awe ra best tae yerself too Robert Kerr ~

      “Scotland is held hostage to her own many fortunes.”

      One beer down.

      One am.

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