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Wings Over Scotland

Led by donkeys

Posted on November 20, 2017 by

Yesterday’s edition of the Scottish Mail On Sunday devoted most of a page to a weird column from Ruth Davidson (in which she appeared to believe that Alex Salmond was still the First Minister), crowing about the great deal that Scotland’s 13 Tory MPs have supposedly won for Scotland in this week’s coming budget.

The first alleged fruits of the deal were revealed today.

That tweet is quite disturbing in itself, because what it unmistakeably implies is that if Scotland had voted for more SNP MPs in June and fewer Tories, the UK government would have retaliated by spitefully punishing innocent war veterans.

And Poppy Scotland weren’t too pleased about being weaponised either.

(Though more cynical readers could perhaps be forgiven a small degree of scepticism about exactly how “apolitical” the organisation really is.)

Class and dignity is the last thing we’d expect from the current crop of Scottish Tory politicians, of course. But even by their low standards an implied threat against former members of the UK armed forces is a crass piece of work.

Still, we’d have to admit it’s a PLAUSIBLE threat, because it’s not as though the Tories don’t have a track record of turning their backs on veterans and serving troops alike:

It’s just that it’s not like them to be so overt about it.

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    1. 20 11 17 17:56

      Led by donkeys | speymouth

    372 to “Led by donkeys”

    1. Bill Hume says:

      Is there nothing the Westminster establishment won’t ‘weaponise’?

    2. Grubby little lowlife. If this is the ‘first example’ which of course the PoppyScotland people refute quite strenuously, will Lamont and the chinless 13 Blue Tory bumwarmers take credit for everything in Spreadsheet Phil’s budget, like the Dementia Tax, cutting pensioners’ Winter Fuel Allowance, freezing CTC payments and at last take direct responsibility for the slow trundling death of 120,000 citizens receiving Universal Credit.
      They really are an evil bunch of chancers.
      The sooner we are rid of EngWaland the better.

    3. Ruglonian says:

      The UK is in such an almighty mess – politically and socially, as currently highlighted by brexit – that this will not be noticed let alone acted upon, and the tories know that better than anyone.

    4. orri says:

      As there are only two parties mentioned in that tweet the implication is that it’s Poppy Scotland who are positively engaging with the UK Government. ScotTories MPs are part of the UK Government.

      The other potential second party is the electorate of Scotland which turns the message into one of bribery or treating. If Scotland doesn’t return enough Unionist MPs, or at least unionist ones, then the UK government will withhold funding.

    5. David McDowell says:

      No doubt Colonel Ruth is lining up the cross hairs of her Panzer tank to blow Poppy Scotland out of the water. You couldn’t make it up!

    6. I just caught Davidson on this tosspot Lamont’s twitter page grinning as she holds a poppy collage aloft with the Saltire embedded in it.

      Vote Tory or you’ll not get the cash from the Bankers LIBOR fraud, for which nobody went to jail, which PoppyScotland have been awarded through their own efforts.
      The £2.5 million award was NOTHING to do with the 13 chinless Tory placemats, or that disgusting little attention seeker Ruth Davidson.
      Yesterday we had the New Red Tory Branch Manager outside Bifab claiming the credit for the rescue. Today this.
      What a fucking disgusting bunch of Brit Nats they all are.
      Davidson really is a ugly little glory seeker, isn’t she?
      Crawl back under your rock, you little self aggrandising reptile.
      They really don’t have a sensitive bone in their bodies, do they?

    7. Peter A Bell says:

      The slick of repugnant ‘One Nation’ British Nationalism that runs through the entire British establishment sometimes cannot be concealed. What is, perhaps, more disturbing is that the British political elite seem less and less concerned about trying to conceal it.

    8. HandandShrimp says:

      So by John Lamont’s logic if the Tories are ditched and Corbyn is elected then Scotland needs to lose the Tory MPs and replace them with Corbynites in order to secure anything for Scotland? Or are only the Tories so crass that they only serve their own?

      Full of crap. However, in order to make the fairly useless Davidson look good Hammond is going to have to cough up some gold.

    9. Bob Mack says:

      The Tories try to lay claim to the loyalty of the military by implying that somehow they are a more preferable and charitable benefactor than any other. Yet we have a “covenant” which is widely abused and seems to be for political rather than practical purpose.
      Truth be told the Tories nor very few others actually give a damn about anybody in the military, unless of course they are ranking officer class.

      Lies,deceit and hypocrisy all of it. When you can elect a serving politician to be an honorary colonel when the worst thing she has ever fought is a five course dinner, then that says it all. It makes me sick.

    10. Macart says:

      Tories really don’t have any redeeming qualities at all, do they?

    11. Robert Graham says:

      Aye – One lot saving servicemen & women , While the other lot are out saving , shipyards , steel works , Fabrication yards to service the renewable industry , oops these examples really didn’t involve either of those lying bloody chancers however much they try . Nice try now get to f/akrk and give us peace .

      Lets see what Wullie has in wee bag of tricks ( was wullie a bus conductor ? ) must be loose change then , here comes loose change wullie , in step with Dick the new labour man , closely followed by Ruth the ******** ” that bit was censored by the management , sorry Patrick yer bike lane hasn’t been costed yet wait for the budget then you can moan .

      All in all thank falkirk the above lot are Nowhere near the Till

    12. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      It used to be a serious resigning matter to reveal any budget decision in advance of the formal budget speech in the HoC. One of the most sacred of taboos – parliamentary supremacy and all that.

      How standards in the Tory Party have slipped. Another sign of their increasing confusion and desperation, perhaps..?

    13. HandandShrimp says:


      A similar thought ran through my mind when I read this.

    14. Bill Jones says:

      The irony is that none of this £2.5 million is actually going to help veterans. It’s the result of a Libor application for funds to renovate the factory and build a museum at Lady Haig’s Poppy Factory in Edinburgh.

    15. Dr Jim says:

      Here was me thinking Richard Leonard deserves all the credit for more Poppy money
      I got my pension this week thanks to Richard Leonard

      Or was that Monica Lennon

      I get most of my sarcasm from hearing Richard Leonards party talk Shite

      So Gratefull

    16. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Nae doot if “this is the first example”………

      Then I’d be prepared to bet that The 13 Tory MPs who are laughingly described as Colonel Gadafties despite being Mays (they are as autonomous as the Red Tories are in Scotland FFS)

      Will also be credited with getting VAT removed from Scotlands Emergency Services post budget.

      It appears that “Vote Unionist to get what you are actually entitled to” aka “Constructive dialogue over ‘grievances” will be the next Campaign Slogan of the Ruth Davidson No Surrender to Referendums Party.

      Pushed by the compliant BritNat Media Machine.

      The worst thing is that there are Voters out there that will swallow this pish and say “Thank you”.

    17. jimnarlene says:

      They truly are the “nasty party”.

    18. I wonder what results we would have got if we had. Had to ask the torie uk governments permission to introduce no student fees no prescription charges no hospital car park charges no tolls on roads or bridges free care for the elderly council tax frozen for 10 years etc.,etc.,and poppy veterans in Scotland benefit from all these things as well and the so called people’s party,would not have allowed these benefits either

    19. Andrew Morton says:

      On the plus side, almost everything which the Tories weaponise explodes in their faces.

    20. Northern Islander says:

      As well as being reprehensible this is also illogical. We’ve always had Tories to argue our case with the Tory Government. Are they saying that Ruthie and Fluffy (and Alistair Carmichael with the Coalition government) were previously too useless to negotiate things for Scotland?

    21. Croompenstein says:

      They vote against giving 16 year olds the vote but are happy enough for them to join up to the Brit forces.. And they glorify the slaughter of a whole generation with their meh pish… I despise them.

      @Jockanese – The triumphalism of Hammonds announcement about the VAT in the budget will be hard to stomach. There will be a hushed silence as he prepares the big statement and after he starts his spiel the tories will be roaring like bulls waving their order papers…

    22. geeo says:

      It will not take much to completely discredit any tory claim to have had VAT made reclaimable in Scotland fore emergency services.

      SNP MP Marion Fellows has another question on public services: (June 28th PMQ’s)

      “I believe it’s important that we give them all the resources they need to do their vital job. In Scotland it’s outrageous that police and fire services are required to pay VAT… Now that the PM has found the magic money tree, will she accept a VAT exemption?”

      May says:

      “When the Scottish government took the decision to merge Scottish police forces, they were told this would lead to VAT being paid by Police Scotland, they were advised that was the position and they chose to go ahead with the merger.”

      The tory position was clearly in their manifesto. No rebate for Scots emergency there.

      It will take a super simple mind to believe the tories have chosen to throw away their perceived stick to beat the SNP with on the issue.

      Perhaps there was a legal challenge in the offing…?

    23. galamcennalath says:

      There was a time, not so long ago, when the Tories tried hard to hide their true nasty nature. It was only ever openly displayed at private events with ‘their own type’ present.

      Now they don’t even bother to conceal it!

      This is quite worrying. In the past they felt it necessary to publically pretend to be something they weren’t so as to garner sufficient votes to become elected. If they no longer feel it necessary to take this approach what does it mean? My concern is that throughout much of the UK being openly nasty has suddenly become acceptable!

    24. schrodingers cat says:

      Macart says:
      Tories really don’t have any redeeming qualities at all, do they?

      when I was in the army and some civy tried to take credit for the actions of servicemen for, personal or political gain, we used to say that they were attempting

      “lécher la sueur hors des couilles des hommes morts”

      licking the sweat off dead mens balls….

      plus que ca change ….etc

    25. izzie says:

      I see my MP Kirstin Hair liked the original tweet. I am still awaiting a reply from her after I emailed asking her position on delaying the Universal Credit Bill

    26. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Fucking tory scum, you gotta love ’em.

    27. Ken500 says:

      Illegal wars. The worst migration crisis since 11WW. Charity instead of Gov support. The Tory unionists. What a disgrace. Killing, maiming and starving vulnerable people. The Tories are killing off their own voters. The elderly. Cutting NHS. Spending £Billions on Trident.

    28. Welsh Sion says:

      Does Roothie agree with her beloved Chancellor that there is “no unemployment”? I think we should be told.

      And as for the piece in the MoS, is this just another marker put down in Tank Commander’s drive towards Leadership of the English Tories? (I mean, who in Scotland and Wales in the right mind reads the MoS, anyway?)

    29. mike cassidy says:

      Lamont has deleted the tweet.

    30. One_Scot says:

      Looks like it’s deleted now.

    31. Orri says:

      I think there’s an entirely local inference to be made from that tweet. The only illogic in it is the sheer stupidity in a statement that implies their support of the veteran community is predicated on how Scotland votes.

      Not only that but consider that as the laws on how VAT exemption are decided are political rather than EU mandated and policing is essential to personal security then deliberately raising the cost of that provision if Scotland votes SNP is an interference in a devolved election impacting on Human Rights.

      The confusion in what services can be VAT exempted might come from the examples of medical services most notably Ambulance. In the UK we don’t pay for NHS Ambulances to come pick us up. Which means that we are free to apply VAT exemption one step closer to the supply chain. So, for example, petrol stations could be exempt from VAT on the supply of fuel to ambulances and other emergency vehicles. The same principle extending to all goods to emergency services.

      That seems to be the basis of VAT refund claims in some cases. However as a percentage of all VAT goes to the EU that might not be the best way of going about it.

      Unfortunately for private concerns who get charged by the emergency services that does mean they will be charged VAT.

    32. Ken500 says:

      The Tory 40% tax on the Scottish Oil & Gas sector. Losing Scotland £Billions and 120,000 jobs.

      Brexit costing Scotland £Billions and thousands of jobs.

      The Tory deceit and lies.

    33. galamcennalath says:

      I have always thought that we are going to need the Tories. They will play a pivitol role in achieving Scottish independence IMO. Of course, that won’t be their intention, but nevertheless it’s in their nature to piss off Scots. Soon or later they will cause a swing in public opinion towards Indy.

    34. Calum McKay says:

      tories in Sctland today lack class, intelligence and decency, their main motivating factors are self interest and greed!

      ‘Twas it ever so!

    35. Dan Huil says:

      Recently it was revealed intelligent teenagers in Scotland were not being conned into joining Westminster’s armed forces as future cannon fodder. Is this an ugly attempt by British nationalist warmongers to encourage enlistment?

      Hey you Jocks! Join up and we’ll give you some crumbs!

    36. Andy-B says:

      Innuendo from a Tory surely not.

      Meanwhile BBC Shortbread news getting behind Kezia Dugdale and her coming tv appearance.

      But Salmond is still a Russian propagandist.

    37. Robert Peffers says:

      If it were any other employer in the United Kingdom whose employment caused such mental and physical damage to their employees the employers would be in the dock in the highest court in the land under a class action brought against them on behalf of many thousands of mentally & physically disabled people, also their dependents and the relatives and organisations who care for them.

      Why should people employed by the state need to depend upon charity to alleviate the effects of their employment induced disabilities?

      It isn’t the people who employ the military – it is the Government.

    38. TheWasp says:

      Disreporting bigging up truthlesss Tory MPs for changing the budget, FFS you couldn’t make it up

    39. Graeme says:

      I am utterly shocked at Richard Leonards statement that he would support England over Scotland, it actually sounds like it could be the truth and he’s only been in the job for 2 days.

      Keeps this up and he won’t be in the job much longer I wager

    40. Valerie says:

      Heinous work from the Tory scumbags.

      However, Ruth managed to co ordinate that Tweet, with her cavorting around the Poppy factory too, so PoppyScotland have been played like a cheap violin.

      When they were challenged on Twitter about her visit, Poppyscotland said the obvious. They welcome politicians from any party to see their work and raise their profile.

      However, many tweeting they will not be contributing again.

    41. mike cassidy says:


      As you know the BBC justified their nonreporting of the ‘austerity deaths’ story by accepting the negative reaction on the Science Media Centre site.

      No attempt at all to report both sides.

      Well the SMC reported the European Medical Agency move to Amsterdam with overwhelming negativity.

      Surprise! Surprise! The BBC website is reporting the move without the deep depression of their go to authority for such stories.

      How much they must wish for a Scottish connection to Charles Manson.

    42. Tam the Bam. says:

      Misreporting Scotland stating Chancellor will react to ‘pressure’ (cough) from Scots tories regarding oil & gas.I mell shite.

    43. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Also OT you missed Banking @mike cassidy says at 6:57 pm

      “The European Banking Authority (EBA) welcomes the Council’s decision on its relocation to Paris”

      Unsurprisingly, BBC not so much.

      Poppy shaped squirrel methinks??

    44. Capella says:

      I read the article by Ruth Davidson in the Mail On Sunday – thanks Stu – and a depressing experience it is. Not only is Alex Salmond still the First Minister, but also Ruth Davidson is not a member of the ruling party in Government responsible for all our current ills, a Tory.

      Fortunately, not many people under the age of 80 read the Mail On Sunday. Even fewer will read Ruth’s opinion piece. A miniscule number will believe a word she says.

      But it’s worth noting what the story will be on Budget Day. I can hardly wait. Yawn.

    45. Tam the Bam. says:

      Graeme @ 6-50pm
      “I’m utterly shocked at Richard Leonards statement he would support England over Scotland.”

      Why?…I’m Scottish and I would still support Scotland irrespective of my place of residence.

    46. stewartb says:

      Tonight’s Reporting Scotland has BBC Scotland’s finest political journalists involved in telling us at length about: (i) an internal party matter about someone appearing on a game show, and (ii) how Scottish Tory MPs are delivering all sorts of new goodies for North Britain (but of course not the controversy over Tory claims of bringing benefit to PoppyScotland).

      Yet nothing, not a single mention, of the major international conference taking place in Edinburgh today on the Arctic. (For a list of the ‘serious’ people participating see this: ).

      And why? Because our FM was giving an address to an international audience? Because it would provide evidence that others outside the UK actually acknowledge Scotland’s progressive ‘status’ including in renewable energy and environmental policy developments – and this doesn’t fit with the ‘cringe’. Scotland getting above itself!

      A damning editorial choice by the BBC!

    47. Derek says:

      Lamont has deleted the original tweet.
      Major reddie for the sycophant.

    48. call me dave says:


      Ruthless bailing us oot wie the VAT and and oor Dickie saving things all the time in Scotland eh!

      What an ungrateful lot we are right enough. 🙂

      There is not enough brasso in the UKOK for their brass necks and I’ve seen a few come and go in Scotland.

      Here’s more in the Herald where Torrance waxes lyrical about a Brexit silver lining and oh aye… SNP bad!

    49. yesindyref2 says:

      Cat has a point, the military despise all politicians, regardless of party.

    50. Och, stewartb, BBC Scotland is now unashamedly the promoters of liars and scoundrils, as long as said liars and scoundrels are Brit Nat Fascists.
      I use the word ‘fascists’ unreservedly now.
      They are killing fellow Scots in their tens of thousands while hoovering up money any way they can, apart from contributing to the good governance of Scotland.
      Professor Two Jobs WATP sectarian bigot Adam Tomkins tweets a wee racist aside about an Englishman heading the Red Tory Branch Office, and it is assumed goes back to marking papers at Glasgow Uni.
      The day of reckoning is coming sooner than they think.

    51. artyhetty says:

      How very telling and how disgusting is that. A clear threatening message, vote for british nationalism, and we might just chuck a few crumbs your way, useless Scotland! Oh, and ta very much for the nice revenues you (have to) send down to London, very generous of you, lolz!

      Vote tory, get a few more crumbs, don’t and your economy and your people will suffer, even having served the London government in one if their war games and vsnity projects, and very probably been maimed and scarred.

      Having read in the National about how lack of lottery cash now seriously starting to impact on Scotland’s arts and sports, because basically the lottery commission dish it out depending on how much goes into the lottery, and also as we know, once again proportionally, to rUK, Scotland gets the crumbs.

      Walked through Edin city today, quite a few shops empty in main streets, and somehow the xmas stuff looks somewhat tatty, compared to previous years. Oh yes and Standard life offices on George st empty, been empty for a while, huge, now empty building. Yoon friends recently saying how sad about B n Q being closed now,oh no, funny that eh.

      I think we are sooo much better together aren’t we, not!

      Vote brit nationalist, or be punished Scotland! Nice message from the parasitic Britnats in London gov.

    52. geeo says:

      Peter Grant on lack of Tories at the current Taxation(cross border) Trade Bill.

      Those on the government benches opposite…not that there are many there… the virtual reality members opposite…”

      Quality !!

    53. Scott says:

      Unless PS go on to MSM and disown what these Tories have tweeted many people will just think that what the Tories say is true its not good enough for them to tweet as not all people are on twitter.
      These Barsteward Tories will sink in their own sh**e given enough time.

    54. stewartb says:

      This Tory use for partisan political ends of the news of the PoppyScotland award is just so blatant and crude.

      And it does not just involve one Borders MP posting one tweet. This looks like a co-ordinated stunt by the Tories devised at a high level and involving several Scottish Tory MPs on twitter; a visit by Ms Davidson to PoppyScotland, with timely corporate media coverage; and apparently the funding to be announced by the Chancellor in the context of this week’s Budget statement (according to the SUN its a “budget windfall”) – even though it appears to be (simply) one award following a successful project proposal by a charity to a well-known, competitive government grant scheme (the Libor Fund).

      In addition to the despicable implications that have already been set out above, the other implication may be that Scottish Tory MPs have intervened to influence the assessment criteria set out for this grant competition. The possibility of such intervention in support of MPs’ constituency or other geographic ‘interests’ does not appear in Libor Grant Application guidance to bidders. Have Scottish Tory MPs exerted unlawful influence on the grant awarding decision making?

      I hope that the Trustees of PoppyScotland will urgently address the reputational risk that the Scottish Tories have brought on their charity!

    55. Graeme says:

      Richard Leonard forces Israel Jordon peace treaty

      Vote Richard Leonard for real change

    56. HandandShrimp says:

      Is Kezia on this show? I have subjected myself to half an hour of this pish and I see no sign of her. Do people really watch this show? /\(Oo)/\

      No problem with Leonard supporting England, he is English so that seems perfectly reasonable to me. I would look askance if he was Scottish though.

    57. jfngw says:

      Tory democracy, vote for us or else we will make sure your funding is reduced. Sorry some of us cannot be bought by baubles.

      The more funding they withhold the closer independence will become. There can few outside the yoonirati that don’t see that the imposition of VAT on only Scottish public services is nothing more than spiteful punishment for voting SNP.

    58. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Brexit Bites in UKOK Hat trick:

      1. European Medicines Agency relocates to Amsterdam

      2. European Banking Authority (EBA) relocates to Paris

      3. “UK withdraws British candidate from election to UN International Court Of Justice.”

      “The move comes after the UK suffered a humiliating blow to its diplomatic prestige last week when after five rounds of simultaneous voting by the Security Council and the General Assembly in New York, four judges from Brazil, Lebanon, France and Somalia were chosen for the bench ahead of the UK’s candidate Sir Christopher Greenwood.”

    59. Rock says:

      “crowing about the great deal that Scotland’s 13 Tory MPs have supposedly won for Scotland in this week’s coming budget.”

      Shame on Scotland for electing 13 Tory MPs.

      If Nicola had struck while the iron was hot and not spectacularly squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen, Scotland would have been on the verge of independence.

      Now we will have to bear these bastards for another 620 years.

    60. galamcennalath says:

      ” Prime Minister agreed with her ministers that the extra money must be conditional on securing an acceptable transition deal and a good free trade agreement. “

      Of FFS! If true, I hope the EU tell the chancers to take a hike!

      Or, ias I suspect, that is exactly what the Tories want – to be told that it is not on. Then they can go for their hard Brexit and blame the EU’s intransigence. [text only]

    61. Rock says:


      “Or, ias I suspect, that is exactly what the Tories want – to be told that it is not on. Then they can go for their hard Brexit and blame the EU’s intransigence.”

      Rock (19th September – “The warning notice”):

      “For your information, a “snap” Brexit means the talks between the two sides will collapse without a deal being reached, which is the intention of the UK government as the EU is not going to give in to any blackmail.

      The UK might technically remain in the EU until March 29 2019, but it will be de facto out.

      Scotland will be at the mercy of the Westminster government, with no official status in the EU other than a region of the UK.”

    62. William Wallace says:

      Absolutely no shaming these brass-necked chancing ba*****s is there? Morally bankrupt doesn’t even begin to cover it.

    63. Rock says:


      “Cat has a point, the military despise all politicians, regardless of party.”

      The military is a core part of the British establishment.

      If all else fails, the military will be used to crush the Scots to prevent Scotland becoming independent.

      I am sure Nicola knows this and will thus not dare defy Saint Theresa and hold an illegal independence referendum.

    64. Hamish100 says:

      Poor confused rock
      What a defeatist . Independence won’t happen for 600 more years. Why bother commenting then?
      You tube.

      Just as well most folk on here don’t take in by this guy. Still hasn’t bought a National yet. Awaiting instructions from his yoony pals

    65. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Further on Richard Leonard’s support for English sports teams.

      This is a decent comment.

    66. Joe says:

      Tories – Rank Rotten to their Unionist Core.
      Sir Alistair Irwin.
      on advisory board of

      ‘Apolitical’ my ar*e!

    67. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Rock.

      WHY do you continue to repeat the false $h!t you come out with, like,

      “I am sure Nicola knows this and will thus not dare defy Saint Theresa and hold an illegal independence referendum.”

      You just don’t accept the fact that the Scottish Parliament can have a referendum, on whichever topic, whenever it likes, do you?

      So you continue to gush your pish thinking that we’re hanging on to your every word…

      Grow up…

    68. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 21:44,

      Chancers indeed. Despite agreeing to the two-phase negotiating framework set by the EU, UKGov has from day one been unilaterally trying to undermine it, deliberately intending to drag as much financial leverage as it can muster right through the first phase and deploy it in the second.

      Which is why May’s claim in Florence of being “willing to pay all obligations” has rung completely hollow in actual talks ever since.

      The ever-present danger being that the UKGov’s transparent take-it-to-the-limit ploy fails with the EU27, and the negotiations stall, with obvious consequences.

      Perfidious Albion at play once again, shape-shifting for public consumption.

      (But for my money, the prime intractable in the first phase is the Irish border question, not the finance obligation, hard enough as that latter issue is. I just can’t see how the EU27 and UKGov can possibly “square the circle” in Irelend, especially with the anti-EU DUP lurking at the Tories’ back.)

    69. galamcennalath says:

      Why €60 billion?

      ” The EU is looking for a commitment from the U.K. not just to maintain its payments into the current EU budget up to 2020 — the offer made by May in Florence — but to cover its share of ongoing EU programs such as regional and overseas aid (known as the reste à liquider, or RAL), plus pension obligations accrued during Britain’s four decades as an EU member. …. The RAL amounts to roughly €240 billion and the U.K. share is roughly 12-13 percent — or a total, he said, of roughly €30 billion. The U.K.’s pension share would similarly be 12-13 percent of liabilities, currently pegged at about €70 billion, which equals €8.75 billion. That is on top of around €20 billion to cover the current budget up to 2020, so a total of close to €60 billion. “

      Some of the €60 billion could arguably be paid by ‘extending membership’ via a transitional period agreement. Although whether the UK really wants a transition which equates to full membership is far from certain. Or whether the EU would offer a transition without ECJ is also uncertain.

      The rest has absolutely nothing to do with ongoing trade and any deal which might be done eventually. There may never be a trade deal, but the money is still due to be paid!

    70. Dorothy Devine says:

      Wi.lliam Wallace , had we an honest media , professional journalist then they might indeed be shamed – but we haven’t.

      How sad that Scotland has so many willing to lie ,manipulate and spit on our country

    71. galamcennalath says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:

      prime intractable in the first phase is the Irish border question

      I agree completely.

      The UK has ignored the Irish issue and its obligations to the peace process thoughout. I read the other day how a recent thorough analysis of the cross border elements at stake has highlighted a comprehensive and complex integration. It looks like Ireland and the EU are just not willing to let it be dismantled unilaterally.

      Thus the EU and Ireland are now talking tough, more or less demanding that the situation within Ireland stays as it is. It’s the UK’s problem on how it achieves that. The simple and obvious solution is to keep NI in customs union and have customs between NI and the rest of the UK.

      However that threatens ‘UK integrity’ and deeply offends the DUP.

      So yes, another reason why there will be no moving on.

    72. Jock McDonnell says:

      @galamcennalath if NI gets a deal, why can’t Scotland ? That’s a question which will be asked.

    73. Doug Bryce says:

      > So yes, another reason why there will be no moving on.


      The funny thing is that the EU know that if May answers the NI question then she loses her majority.

      A sea border alienates the DUP who are ideologically opposed to united Ireland. UK remaining in customs union turns the hard brexiters against her.

    74. CaGey Bee says:

      Bill Jones says:
      20 November, 2017 at 4:57 pm
      The irony is that none of this £2.5 million is actually going to help veterans. It’s the result of a Libor application for funds to renovate the factory and build a museum at Lady Haig’s Poppy Factory in Edinburgh.

      The poppy factory employs 45 disabled ex servicemen and there are currently numerous leaks in the roof of the old printing works. The factory also runs educational tours. Having been working in there for the last 5 years I know they will be incndesant re the way roothie has pulled this stunt.

    75. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, Britain’s entry into the first world war was encourages by the culture industry of the day, which went to great lengths to pimp an orchestrated campaign of “blood and soil” nationalism.

      Scots have experienced similar, twice in quick succession. We were only fooled once. Not genetically programmed…phff.

      After the Great War: Nationalism, Degenerationism and Mass Psychology


      This article explores the influence of psychological language and discourses on the contemporary view of nationalism, an issue that has only begun to be studied in recent years (García-García, 2013; Sluga, 2006). On this occasion, the author focuses on two currents or schools that contributed decisively to the new view of nationalism after the Great War: first, degenerationist medicine and psychiatry, highly accepted in the European social and political debate since the late 19th century; second, and no less penetrating, the crowd or mass psychology of Taine, Tarde, Sighele, and, above all, Gustave Le Bon.

      After the Great War, as we shall see, nationalism was often represented as a form of degeneration, or a barbarous and cruel regression to a prior stage of development, embodied by the masses. This discourse and rhetoric was to condition the area of study for generations. In fact, the voices of medicine, psychiatry and mass psychology have not disappeared from the debate and continue to directly and indirectly influence the academic and popular comprehension of nationalism.

    76. ben madigan says:

      sorta O/T – Enjoy and Smile despite the dire straits we find ourselves in!

    77. William Wallace says:

      @ Dorothy

      I hear ya.

      What we don’t have we must create 😉 Be the media 🙂 All the tools are there.

    78. William Wallace says:

      @ Ben

      Haha. Class. 🙂

    79. Sinky says:

      Tonight Corbyn’s Labour confirmed they are the same type of party as Tories when it come to hard Brexit.. no Single Market and no Customs Union.

      Waiting for STV to challenge Leonard on this rather than allowing him to do a PPB on local election campaign.

    80. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “You just don’t accept the fact that the Scottish Parliament can have a referendum, on whichever topic, whenever it likes, do you?”

      Rock (8th October – “The shoogly peg”):

      “I can say with 100% confidence that Saint Theresa is not going to give permission to Nicola to hold another referendum before Brexit has been completed.

      I can say with 99% confidence that Nicola will not dare defy Saint Theresa.

      If she does, the recent events in Catalonia will look like a picnic in comparison.

      The fascist British state is far far worse than the fascist Spanish state.

      The worst part of it, more than half of Scots will be on the side of the fascist British state.

      After all the Irish and Scots will remain “British” until judgement day and beyond.”

    81. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “You just don’t accept the fact that the Scottish Parliament can have a referendum, on whichever topic, whenever it likes, do you?”

      The “fact” is that the only referendum the Scottish parliament has ever had was the 2014 independence referendum after Alex Salmond sought and received the UK Prime Minister’s permission.

      Your “fact” is an unproven theory.

      If and when your “theory” becomes a proven fact, I will accept it.

    82. Normski says:

      Except maybe @poppyScotland aren’t quite as apolitical as they would like you to believe. They seem perfectly happy to promote Tory propaganda on their webpages – apparently Rape Clause Ruth is now a Minister in the Scottish Government.

    83. Ken500 says:

      €60Billion is four years of EU funding, contribution €15Billion a year.

      UK gets a €5Billion? a year rebate. Do not pay a full share pro rata. (pop)

      Germany (80million pop) pays €25Billion

      France (65Million pop) pays €20Billion. Italy pays €20Billion. Spain pays ?

      The largest more prosperous country pay (proportionly more pro rata) The smaller less well off countries get more investment.

      It is to help the whole of Europe become more prosperous, Free equal trade etc. Shared Defence costs more economically. To compete in world terms as a unit. A very successful enterprise. Invest in renewables etc, Help the environment. Shared red directives good social Laws etc. Shared emission targets.

      Unfortunately Westminster ignorant, incompetent, lying warmongers who damage the environment and waste £Trns destroying the world have never wanted to be a full partner. Choosing instead to try and blame the EU for the Westminster blatant illegal policies. Westminster’s Illegal wars, financial fraud, destroying the world banking system and illegal tax evasion. Total corruption.

      To stop war and starvation in Europe after 11WW. An extremely successful partnership.

      The Tories and their want out of the EU so they can continue to tax evade. Even though they destroy the world economy to do it. Westminster unionists a bunch of greedy bastards who will do anything to line their pockets embezzle public money. Sanction kill and maim millions, cause the worst migration crisis since the 11WW. Ruin the world economy. Causing poverty and death. Just so they can illegally tax evade. For these greedy, coarse nasty people enough is never enough. That is why so few people join unionists parties, especially in Scotland.

      Brexit will destroy the UK/EU world economy. The Tories will be gone before long.

    84. Ken500 says:

      If Scotland votes to have a Referendum – votes for a Party with a mandate to have a Referendum. They can have a Referendum. Just organise it. The Scottish Gov already had a mandate for it. Just keep on voting SNP, SNP. Vote for Independence.

      Any politician who has opposed Scottish Independence has lasted two years. Cameron, Brown, Clegg. Gray. Lamont Dugdale etc. Only survive on corrupted electoral system. Leonard how long? All gone. May? How long will she last? Not long. The poison chalice. The SNP Gov has lasted ten years. Outlasted the lot of them. Still going strong. Best governance Scotland has ever had. It is not a good career move to oppose Scottish Independence.

    85. Meg merrilees says:

      The next indy ref might be about to jump a bit closer…

      Article on RT which says that T May’s decision to give the EU £40 ill ion could spell the end of her government if she decides cut the money earmarked for the troops.
      She may be about to try and save £30 billion form the Royal Marines and scrap a couple of ships… now where have we heard that before, and whose ships do you think might be scrapped???

      If she does try to cut the defence funding RT suggests there will be a rebellion.

    86. Cactus says:

      Richard Leonard, politician, is of and for England.

      Lions and tigers and bears donkeys:

      Happy new day Scotland.

    87. geeo says:

      Some people are unsure if they want independence, but they certainly want an SNP Scottish government.

      There is where victory lays.

    88. mr thms says:

      This article caught my attention..

      “No British judge on world court for first time in its 71-year history

      Indian candidate fills 15th and final place on bench of international court of justice after UK withdraws its pick for post”

      …because it would be the International Court of Justice that would need to rule on the disputed maritime border between Scotland and England.

      “Who has a right to claim North Sea oil?”

    89. yesindyref2 says:

      Hickory Dickory Rock,
      The mouse ran up the clock,
      The clock struck seven,
      eight nine ten eleven,
      Hickory Dickory Rock

    90. Ken500 says:

      Nicola will be there long after Theresa is gone, Next for the poison chalice. Oppose Scottish Independence they will not last very long. Unless on a corrupted electoral system. It is not a good career move to oppose Scottish Independence. Look how far Scotland has come since 2000. Who would have thought it, a few years ago. A bright future ahead. Another IndyRef. Scotland Independent in the EU has a nice ring to it. Just needs 5%. A bright, prosperous more equal happy future. Scotland can help the world economy. No more unionists collusion, illusion and corruption.

    91. mr thms says:

      Rock @ 11:24 pm

      The “fact” is that the only referendum the Scottish parliament has ever had was the 2014 independence referendum after Alex Salmond sought and received the UK Prime Minister’s permission.

      If I recall rightly, one of the reasons Article 30 was the preferred ‘option’, was down to the UK government not wanting the UK Supreme Court to rule Holyrood was the equal of Westminster.

      It’s a bit late to google it..

    92. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Rock at 11.24

      The Scottish Government can have as many referendums as it likes. The Edinburgh Agreement was about agreeing the format and accepting the result,not about permission being sought and given

    93. boris says:

      And Scotland’s politicians were put in their place by the Westminster system just as the Irish were when they observed the political code of conduct demanded by England

    94. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tam the Bam. says: 20 November, 2017 at 7:27 pm:

      “Why?…I’m Scottish and I would still support Scotland irrespective of my place of residence.”

      Yes, Tam, but you are not in a position where, pending an election you could become the First Minister of a Foreign Country. Now unless I qualify that comment someone will be along in a minute to say we had Scots Prime Ministers at Westminster.

      However, Westminster is not, (Officially), the parliament of a country nor of a single country kingdom. Westminster is officially a bipartite United Kingdom parliament that has two equally sovereign partner Kingdoms but Scotland is both a country and a kingdom.

    95. Meg merrilees says:

      Mr thms and Dave Mc Ewan Hill – Well said – and thanks for putting that one to bed.

      Just been reading on, of all places, the Daily Telegraph that, according to their source, Kezia asked James Kelly for permission to have 3 weeks off. He said No because of the Leadership election. She then, according to the source, asked both of the Leader contestants who each said yes, although she didn’t explain what she was doing in the 3 weeks off.

      Apparently both Nicola and Ruthless have wished her good luck.

      Another story says that the Eurotunnel is to be renamed ‘Getlink’ because it sounds more Anglo-Saxon!!!

    96. Clootie says:

      “The word “Tory” derives from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe; modern Irish tóraí; modern Scottish Gaelic Tòraidh: outlaw, robber or brigand, from the Irish word tóir, meaning “pursuit”, since outlaws were “pursued men”. It was originally used to refer to a Rapparee and later applied to Confederates or Cavaliers in arms”

      Never trust a Tory…regardless of colour….Blue, Red or Yellow!

    97. Chick McGregor says:

      YOU are the one making categorical statements of ‘fact’ which are anything but.

      There is no such thing as an illegal independence referendum in Scotland.

      There is absolutely nothing in the Treaty of Union or the Scotland Act 1997 or any subsequent amendments which precludes a referendum on whether Scots think Scotland should be an independent nation state, or indeed a referendum on any subject.

      The Edinburgh Agreement did NOT confer binding status to indyref1 even though many Yes supporters also believe that to be the case. Indyref1, like the Brexit referendum, like all referendums in the UK was consultative. If Cameron had not signed it Alex would have held it anyway.

      Likewise, the Edinburgh Agreement, which has no legal status whatsoever, not even contractual, has not set a precedent where Westminster permission is required.

      The Scottish Government can decide to hold a consultative referendum on anything they like, including on whether the people think Scotland should be an independent country.

      Whether there is a gentleman’s (woman’s) informal agreement before the event that the result will oblige both sides to begin negotiations after a Yes result or not is a desireable but minor detail.

      Westminster cannot intervene in any such referendum under the guise of legality, if they do, it is they who would clearly be acting illegally. There is no comparison with the Catalan scenario.

      They could refuse to enter negotiations after a Yes result, easier to do without a prior agreement of intent but still very, very difficult to justify to the World at large.

    98. William Wallace says:

      Oh Dear.

      Rock’s in trouble.

      DMH and RP rolling in with the cavalry and artillery 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Game over!!!

    99. William Wallace says:

      Lol Chick tae 🙂

      Checkmate Rock old bean.

    100. Joemcg says:

      Very interesting revelation over on Stuart’s twitter feed that Sir Alistair Irwin president of poppy Scotland is a leading member of SIU. Apolitical my arse.

    101. Meg merrilees says:

      mr thms

      Thanks for the link to that historical BBC article -2013.

      Gosh, what an eye-opener. You absolutely, categorically would not, ever, get an article written like that now. It’ stair, balanced, informative and credible plus it lays out facts and both sides of the debated subjects. Wow.- shows just HOW far the BBC has fallen in 4 years.

      The latest figures from GERS (Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland) for 2011-12 show that £11.25bn was paid into the UK exchequer from North Sea revenues, historically high oil prices and a raised supplementary tax rate made it one of the largest figures ever.

      The same Scottish government report seeks to outline what difference this would make to Scotland’s financial position if it were to get a “geographical share” of the revenues instead of a “per capita” slice.
      In 2011-12 it would have meant an extra £10.57bn being paid to Scotland, the report claims – which is important to keep down the scale of Scotland’s deficits – with 94% of the revenues being generated in Scottish waters.

      I see your point that the International Court of Justice may be crucial in the near future and it’s fascinating to know that there is already a precedent set by the criteria for deciding which country a crime is committed in.
      “To complicate the matter slightly, in 1968, there was another line drawn from the border straight across the North Sea and that was for civil and criminal court problems. North of that line Scottish law prevailed and south of it English law prevailed.

    102. William Wallace says:

      @ Joe


      Plot thickens.

    103. Chick McGregor says:

      I have not bought a poppy for some years because like war itself, it has become politicised by the controlatti of Westminster and the SE and their dispersed lickspittals.

      Instead, I make an annual donation to Erskine a couple of weeks before Armistice Day.

    104. Ken500 says:

      Theresa May and the Tories will not be there for very much longer. Neither will Labour in Scotland. Independence will come. The Brexit mess. There is nothing Westminster can do about it. Bye bye and good luck out on the isolation rut. What a bunch of total unionists ignorant, incompetent bastards. Corbyn what a disaster. More than 5% in Scotland will wake up.

    105. Cactus says:

      Good day to you the People of the United States of America ~

      Good day to you too the excellent People of Canada ~

      Greetings to all independent countries.

      Go on, go on, have your say.

      You’re always welcome.

      Oui good.


    106. Ken500 says:

      The fact still remains the unionists cheated and lied in every way during the IndyRef, They lied and made false promises illegally overspent. . The Vow etc that can be held with contempt. Unfinished business.

      They did the same during the Brexit negotiations. Lied and cheater and over spent, Now, after protest, finally being investigated. Under threat of legal action. The Electoral Commission and other Westminster sychophant

      The fact that Westminster unionists have bern consistently trying to ruin the Scottish economy. Unionist politicans for which Scotland did not vote, Undemocratic. They have been secretly and illegally taking money out of Scotland and wasting it since 1928. Leaving Scotland in poverty, This has been consistently documented but hidden under the Official Secrets Act. Used consistently by Westminster unionists to cover up their corruption and abuse. Even child abuse. The vulnerable in society sanctioned and starved. Essential services not being supported. leading to the most vulnerable dying. More abuse. Embezzling and wasting public money on groteque projects of no value. No one wants. Ignoring the voters and the public wishes.

      Thank goodness for the SNP Scottish Gov standing up for Scotland. With the full support of the majority of the people. Where would Scotland be without it? Dread to think. At the unionists wasters mercy. The unionists even sabotaged and illegally changed the voting system so they could compromised the Scottish economy. In collusion with their colleagues at Westminster. To line their and their cronies pocket and ruin the world economy. Support abuse of the most vulnerable people.

      Independence fir Scotland will aid the EU/world economy. Stop abuse of the most vulnerable people. Scottish invention, ideas and policies shaped the modern world for the better. Mainly due to an impressive fully supported education system. One of the first countries to have inclusive tertiary education system. It excels throughout the world by comparison. No matter how the 3rd rate reject unionists try to lie and knock it. By not funding properly the education system. Instead spending and wasting on grotesque non mandated projects of no value. No one wants. Instead of funding essential services. Ignorant incompetents.

      The Brexit mess. Could there be more show of complete, ignorant incompetence. Absolutely appalling behaviour by a bunch of out of touch spoikt sychophants. Lying and cheating the public Not even elected but rejected in Scotland but out to destroy the Scottish economy. So they and their cornies can illegally starve and kill vulnerable people. To line their own greedy pockets misappropriate,p, waste public money and tax evade. Only if people in Scotland let them by not standing up for Scotland and supporting the SNP/Gov. Making decisions in Scotland for Scotland. Not by a majority of unelected politicans not giving support that is needed to the economy.

    107. Capella says:

      I see from Stu’s twitter that Google is “deranking” RT to make them harder to find in searches.
      Time for Mr Putin to set up his own search engine?

      I remember Google did this with Republican sites during the 2008 US election. Changing the algorithm could shift a result back to page 40. Nobody scrolls through 40 pages.
      After they won, the Democrats appointed Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google, to the government.

      Scmidt’s daughter works in election manipulation now according to the Carole Cadwalladr articles in The Guardian. Isn’t corporate government (formerly called fascism but doubt a Google search will confirm) wonderful.

    108. Nana says:

      Drawbridge economics: the Brexit reality check is coming

      Civil servants bordering on clueless over Brexit

      Belief that customs system will be ready for Brexit ‘borders on insanity’

    109. galamcennalath says:

      Jock McDonnell says:
      at 10:51 pm

      if NI gets a deal, why can’t Scotland ? That’s a question which will be asked.

      Indeed, and I would expect the Scottish Government to argue for it.

      For NI and Scotland to stay in customs union, it would mean customs at the Border with England. To manage the diverging economy in Scotland we would need more powers, possibly full fiscal autonomy.

      So far, so good. The problem is, Westminster just won’t allow it.

      Therein perhaps, lies the value of insisting we also stay in customs union with the EU after Brexit. We make a reasonable request, WM tells us to bu99er off. Sets everything up nicely for IndyRef2.

    110. Dr Jim says:

      The Tories have told us when they kick their dogs that loud yelp they make isn’t pain and even if it is they’re too stupid to know it

      Anybody not clear what a Tory is yet?

    111. Breeks says:

      It strikes me the people who whine about others not wearing poppies are the same type of shallow characters as those 100 years ago who dished out white feathers to young men who hadn’t volunteered to fight.

      I read a good story in a book of WW1 quotations about a veteran from the front who was home on leave or recuperation, who found himself out of uniform and sitting on a bus. A woman approached to give him a white feather. He politely accepted the feather, pulled out his pipe and proceeded to clean it using the feather as a pipe cleaner. When he was done, he handed back the manky feather to the woman, thanking her, and saying it was so very difficult to find decent pipe cleaners at the front.

      If the Tories and BritNats want to politicise the Poppy, then they risk destroying the integrity of the poppy itself. I rather fear in fact, they already have. I find it deeply unsettling that Sir Alistair Irwin, President of the Scottish Legion and on the Board of Trustees of Poppy Scotland is also a member of the frothing at the mouth Scotland in Union Brigade.

      Growing up as a child, with my father a war veteran, I was raised to see Remembrance Day as a sad and solemn day, and the whole point of the poppy was to be subdued and respectful, a flash of colour to show respect for the war dead, but subtle and discreet enough to remain appropriate to wear at a funeral or while grieving. The poppy was a sign of rememberance, but it was very much an anti-war sign of remembrance. The poppies too were for war dead, British soldiers, French Soldiers, US soldiers, but also German soldiers too. Death does not discriminate.

      In modern times, the marketing of poppies seems thoroughly artless and crass, and a hundred years and a hundred miles removed from solemn Remembrance. It has evolved into the poppy olympics where you have to have more poppies, bigger poppies, how artistically creative you can make your environmentally friendly poppies… Back in my dads day, a cheap black dot on red bit of paper with a green plastic pin said all that needed to be said, “I remember”. In every sense of the word, it was the thought that counted.

      It occurred to me that Wilfred Owen, author of Dulce et Decorum Est, would have been very comfortable wearing a poppy as properly intended, but would have quickly found the gesture crass and unpalatable the moment it was seized upon as manna for BritNat warmongers.

      And no word of a lie, when I was kid, and a young kid, I was already struggling to understand why these “heroes” who had given so much for their country were reduced to the charity of poppy sales just to make ends meet. Why was the mother country they served and died for so ungrateful and uncaring that it abandoned them to poverty and hardship, even reduced to selling their war medals?

      I wonder which version of events they are telling our kids when the Army recruiters are visiting our schools?

    112. Sinky says:

      @ Joemcg says 12.43

      Scotland In Union Team a well funded Tory front

      Founder and Executive Director – Alastair Cameron
      Director – Sheila Cannell
      Director – Jennifer Young
      Director – Patrick Harkness
      Chief Executive – Graeme Pearson
      Campaigns Manager – Andrew Skinner
      Press Officer – Craig Davidson
      Research and Events Manager – Alice Struthers

      Councillor Michael Cook: Michael Cook is an independent Councillor for Scottish Borders Council and is also Vice President of COSLA, the representative voice of Scottish local government.

      Professor Jim Gallagher: Professor Gallagher CBFRSE is an academic heavily involved in the Scottish constitutional question, and a director in the commercial and charitable sectors. Professor Gallagher was Whitehall’s most senior civil servant concerned with devolution until his retirement in 2010.

      Lt Gen Sir Alistair Irwin: Commissioned into The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) in 1970, Lieutenant General Sir Alistair Irwin, KBC, CBE is a former Adjutant-General and General Officer Commanding Northern Ireland. He has been active in veterans’ affairs in Scotland since 2006.

      Professor Colin Kidd: Professor Colin Kidd FBA, FRSE is Wardlaw Professor of Modern History at the University of St Andrews and a Fellow of All Souls College, Oxford.

      Neil Lovatt: Neil is commercial director at Scottish friendly and has over 20 years experience in the financial services industry, he has written on financial services in the Scotsman, Sunday Herald, The Telegraph and the Independent. Neil also blogs on both politics, tax and finance and the predictive quality of the betting markets in politics and authors the Red, White & Blue LiveBook

      Archie Macpherson: Archibald “Archie” Macpherson is a broadcaster, journalist and author.

      Merryn Somerset-Webb: Merryn Somerset Webb is Editor-in-Chief of Money Week.

      Dr Craig Smith: Dr Smith is a senior lecturer in the School of Social and Political Sciences at Glasgow University. His research focuses on the political thought of the Scottish Enlightenment. Dr Smith has also contributed to leading independent think tank Reform Scotland.

      Disgraced members includes “Historywoman” Jill Stephenson and Fisherman’s leader John William Buchan

    113. There are no depths the British nationalists won’t sink to,
      Richard Leonard trying to take credit for saving the Bifab jobs at Methil, Burntisland and on the Isle of Lewis.

      And now John Lamont attempting to use the £2.5m funding
      poppy Scotland received for his own party’s political advantage

    114. Sinky says:

      Apologies as forgot that Labour’s Pamela Nash has replaced Labour’s Graeme Pearson as CEO and Will Ramsay chief executive of Affordable Art Fair has joined the board of Scotland in Union.

      A list of those publicly opposing Indy in 2014 can be seen here,_2014

    115. Yerkitbreeks says:

      Poor little John Lamont – did nothing at Holyrood (but masses of photocalls in the Borders ) – is still getting it so wrong

    116. Robert Graham says:

      While we are all laughing at these Tory and Labour obvious distortions of the truth ,the political message is getting out there Via their media, the media that is 99.99% controlled by them.

      This is what people are absorbing daily however stupid it appears to all here, this version of reality is how the world is to many of our country folk, you start to realise this when speaking to people, it can be very baffling to learn the total guff some people believe is Gospel .

      Therefore can it be a prerequisite of any and all SNP reps while being interviewed to get their message out , to often they truthfully answer requests for information while forgetting to add the political message, every question Mr Jackson the car man asks in Hollyrood is accompanied by a political side swipe . Learn from this and get down amongst them play the same game play as dirty as them otherwise you will get walked over, stop being nice .

    117. Breeks says:

      Capella says:
      21 November, 2017 at 7:44 am
      I see from Stu’s twitter that Google is “deranking” RT to make them harder to find in searches.
      Time for Mr Putin to set up his own search engine?

      That’s interesting Capella. Not just deranking RT, but it goes a long way to explain why the hatespeak of the Daily Express and BBC propaganda is never far from the top of the list in your search results…

    118. Sinky says:


      I am not the only one who finds that searching for pro Indy stuff that I can vaguely remember is very hard as even if it exists on Google it is ranked well below shoals of pro Union propaganda.

      Therefore it is essential we should all print out in full or copy in full useful articles and maintain our own personal data base for future reference.

    119. Ken500 says:

      The unionists Parties wasting public money like there is no tomorrow. On illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Causing the worst migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. Now Brexit. Costing £Trns of mismanagement. Especially in Scotland where no one votes for them. That will cost more to the economy. Then claiming some small advantage by a few £Million of suspect funding in Scotland. Total hypocrites. Appalling abuse.

      The unionist MSM attacking education in Scotland in the most malicious lying way. The Scottish education system is one of the most supported and best in the world. 55% of the population attend University one of the highest in the world. Colleges and apprenticeships for skills. Scotland invention and ideas has changed and shaped the world.

      It is the unionist councils who are not using the allocated funding from the Scottish Gov, To fund lower class sizes and employ enough teachers and support additions needs etc. They cut the allocated funding of the education essential services budget. To fund groteque projects of no value. No one wants. A total waste of public money. While the unionist MSM covers up the abuse as usual. Making up excuses in every way,

      These councils illegally use the statutue of limitation (30 pupils per class) as the norm. When they are given more than adequate funding to keep class sizes down, support additional needs and employ morre teachers etc. To bear the load, They illegally cut allocated education funding and essential services. To fund non mandate wasteful grotesque Projects of no value. No one wants. Ignore the electorate.

      These unionist councils are at fault. Not the Scottish Gov policy, they do not support. To fund essential services properly. The MSM Non Dom tax evading Press use every lie and trick in the book to try and cover up the abuse. So they can continue tax evading. Brexit etc. The majority are totally unhappy, annoyed and angry about it. The Westminster unionist mess. Trying to muck up the economy again.

    120. Scott says:


      Have anyone seen this reported anywhere on the BBC I can’t find it anywhere.

      Poppy Scotland are on a very dodgy place at the moment they must put someone up on TV to state they are in no way connected to any party and say who funded Davidson’s appearance there.
      There is more veterans charities peoples money can go to.

    121. Robert Peffers says:

      Re the de-ranking of Google searches. It helps a bit if you use:-

      Stick it in your favourites bar and you can narrow the terms of search down a bit.

      Then there is, “Dogpile”:-

      Dogpile,”piles”, all the best search engines results together to get a more balanced search.

    122. Vestas says:

      The Brit Armed forces have been the “good guys” on two occasions :

      1) Napoleon;
      2) Hitler.

      Every other time they are the “bad guys”.

      Most of the people I know in the Brit forces are racist, homophobic, xenophobic thugs. Think England football supporters with guns and you’d be spot on the money.

      They can stuff their poppies where the sun doesn’t shine.

    123. Bob Mack says:

      A now departed old family friend told me of his service during the war. He loaded the bombs on Lancasters before each raid, and would often write messages on the bombs prior to loading, as was the norm.

      Only after the war did he actually realise that many of the recipient’s of these munitions were civilians in Dresden and other places. I think it affected him quite badly. He wore the Poppy for them as well as our own forces.

      That is truly what the Poppy is about. It is international, and not a jingoistic symbol of our own ability to honour the dead military here in the UK.

      Amazing how politicians and others can corrupt something so completely.

    124. Ken500 says:

      The useless incompetent unionists Celebration a few £Million of claimed increase funding. It is just Scottish raised money coming back. While £Bilions of Scottish revenues, ie £20Billion+ a year is misused, mismanaged and lost to Westminster unionist incompetence. Brexit is just appalling mismanagement of colossal ignorance. Especially for Scotland. The reports and estimates are being kept hidden by Westminster So multimillionaires can tax evade and not pay their dues holding the rest of the economy to their total mismanagement. Corruption and abuse. Enough is never enough. Westminster unionist attempt to illegally hide under the Official Secrets Act Leading to suffering and abuse even of animals.

    125. @Capella

      checked `RT` on google ,says `funded by the Russian Government`. no probs,

      checked `BBC` on google,says, `owner, British public`.

      jeezo, are they 5 year old.

    126. Ken500 says:

      The promotion of illegal war by Westminster is totally sicking. Illegal sales of arms etc which fall into the wrong hands and come back to bite. Used against civilians.

    127. HandandShrimp says:

      The Tories like to wrap themselves in the flag and consider themselves defenders of the faith and nation. They view the armed forces as their private army. The fact is that nobody has crippled the armed forces more in recent years. It was the Tories that sent serving soldiers in Afghanistan redundancy notices.

      For the Tories the poppy is just a cheap medal. They pay lip service to “never again” although some struggle with even that but the underlying message is one of militarism. Remembrance is not another armed forces day but that is what they are trying to make it. It was exactly that sort if jingoism that caused WW1 and without WW1 there would have been no Hitler, Mussolini or Stalin.

    128. ScottieDog says:

      I notice that Mcadougall has been going on about the UK single market again.
      How can you have a trade market with two players where one controls the resources of the other.
      It’s a bit like playing yourself at chess.

    129. Dan Huil says:

      @Vestas 10:11am

      The Brit Armed forces have been the “good guys” on two occasions :

      1) Napoleon;
      2) Hitler.

      Not sure about No.1. Thomas Muir, Wolf Tone and the movements for reform in the islands of Britain took heart from the French Revolution and Napoleon’s actions.

    130. HandandShrimp says:

      We could all be huddled around a candle trying to heat a can of Argentinean beef and Blair would still try and tell us this is better than being independent.

    131. Ken500 says:

      Exactly. The non existent single market where Scottish economy is misused and abuse by politicians not voted for in Scotland, To imposed unfair illegal taxes 40% on the Oil & Gas industry. (Lower price) Losing £Billions and 120,000 jobs. Spending Scottish resources and tax revenues on illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion.

      Scottish resources and revenues used to pay off illegally acquired rest of the UK debt. Screw the Scottish economy’, in every way possible. Brexit. They do not care. It does not affect them. They do not live here. Then try and hide the abuse under the Official Secrets Sct. To cover up the corruption. Some single market. Scottish resources funding wealthier London S/E. Leaving Scotland poorer,despite raising pro rata more in taxes and revenues. Paying for debt not accused in Scotland.

      The North/South divide. An economic phenomenon. Scotland depopulated. London S/E unable to function because of congestion holding the economy back. People getting illegally chucked out of Scotland. Brexit according to reported, covered up reports. Scotland being hit the most. Some democracy. The attempts to deprive the legitimate Scottish Gov of any voice over consulted matters. Not listen to any concerns. Appalling. The ‘single market con’. The Tory con men. The Scottish education system means more people in Scotland are aware of them.

    132. Nana says:

      Repugnant right wing extremists

    133. Robert Graham says:

      Sinky- thanks for the wikipedia link

      the interesting bit is when you click newspapers for independence result 1 yep one .

      Newspapers against independence i lost count and when you add all other media the list is endless.

      christ it’s a wonder we even got to 45%

      the fact we haven’t went away must really trouble them despite all their efforts .

      Tough Shit eh .

    134. schrodingers cat says:

      HandandShrimp says:
      We could all be huddled around a candle…………

      We could all be huddled around a picture of a candle………..

    135. Vestas says:

      @Dan Huil 10:54 am :

      “Not sure about No.1. Thomas Muir, Wolf Tone and the movements for reform in the islands of Britain took heart from the French Revolution and Napoleon’s actions.”

      Not when he declared himself emperor and invaded the rest of Europe they didn’t 😉

    136. Scott says:

      I thought it worth posting this typical Tory hit the poor public.

      Tory Moray councillor quits Tory party over savage saving plans

      School crossing patrollers, public toilets, community centres and libraries are all under threat in a savage council savings plan that has caused a senior Tory councillor to quit the party.

      I wonder what their MP Douglas Ross has to say I bet its all the SNPs fault

    137. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Vestas @ 11:43 am
      Dan Huil @ 10:54 am,

      In truth you are both right. Beethoven dedicated the score of his glorious 3rd Symphony (“Eroica”) to Napoleon, but if one examines the document today, the dedication was so severely crossed out later by its author that the pen has gone right through the paper.

    138. Ken500 says:

      Paying for debt not accured in Scotland or conceded by the majority in Scotland.

      An IndyRef is still an on going proposition. Despite the unionist con men politicians. Or the arrogant Tories at Westminster. On an economic deprivation mission. How could they be so totally uncaring and incompetent. A deficiency of care. A deflection of duty. Breaking the legal ministerial code of conduct. Not fit for public office.

    139. TheItalianJob says:

      @Robert Graham at 11.27am

      Spot on. We did very well to get to 45% in Indy1 when at least 95% of the media including the BBC, Sky, ITV etc were all for promoting the Union.

      We are still here and growing.

    140. Ken500 says:

      The Tories in Moray probably will not put up the higher band Council tax. They tried it in Aberdeenshire but were outvoted. They were trying to cut the Education allocation again. They are back in power again with their cronies. Anything can happen. After complaining continuously about increasing higher band tax. After the 9 years? freeze. Good public services have to be paid. Especially by the well heeled who benefit the most from good essential services. The whole community benefits. Spread fairly. Everyone benefits.

    141. stewartb says:

      With apologies if you’ve all moved on, but this Libor Fund that the Westminster Government uses to support charities associated with the armed services does appear to be ‘problematic’ in a number of ways.

      See this from an article in Civil Society from 22 June, 2017 ( )

      “The money gifted to charities (from Libor fines) has come under fire in the last couple of years over the apparent lack of application process, with concerns about how exactly the money was handed out. In the last year the Treasury seems to have tightened up its processes, and announced the opening of an application process for Libor funding ahead of November’s Autumn Statement. “

      Info on the (supposed) application and assessment process for the most recent funding round can be found here:

      Notwithstanding this process, according to their tweets, the clear implication is that Scottish Tory MPs have directly intervened to influence the process of assessing bids and making awards to charities, something that is not documented as part of the grant awarding process.

      The alternative is that a Libor Fund project application from PoppyScotland has been removed from this bidding process and the £2.5m grant funded in effect through another route for party political advantage? Makes you wonder!

      This tweet from Luke Graham MP is perhaps the clearest one in its admission of Scottish Tory MPs’ direct intervention to influence how the grant awarding decision process was conducted.

      “Luke Graham OSP MP 
      Nov 19

      Action from @ScotTories securing investment in #Budget2017 for @poppyscotland factory in Edinburgh.”

      And to get some perspective, in 2013, £1.9m of Libor money was awarded by the Tory Government to ‘Houses for Heroes Scotland’, to build low-rent houses in Scotland for wounded service personnel and their families. How many Scottish Tory MPs were there in 2013? Of course other projects in Scotland have received support from this same source in the past.

      According to the National Audit Office on 8 September, 2017 ( ), 729 grants had been awarded to 639 charities and causes with an average grant of £0.8 million. How involved have Tory MPs been in influencing all these awards – or are Scottish Tories uniquely interventionist?

      The NAO also reports this:

      “Not all grants from the Libor Fund had terms and conditions attached to them as standard until Autumn Statement 2015. “

      “HM Treasury and the MoD cannot yet confirm that charities spent all grants as intended. Currently the MoD is conducting a retrospective review of all grants awarded since 2012 to ensure that they were spent correctly.”

      Tories – what are they like!!

    142. Dan Huil says:

      @Vestas 11:43am

      Well… Napoleon made himself emperor in 1799.

      “Napoleon’s Irish Legion was a French light infantry battalion established in 1803 for an anticipated invasion of Ireland. Bernard MacSheehy was assigned to form the regiment he was an Adjutant-General in Napoleon’s army.

      It was later expanded to a four battalion regiment with a depot and won distinction in the Walcheren Expedition and the Peninsular War.

      While the Legion was stationed at Mainz in 1806, they were joined by 1,500 Poles together with around 200 former United Irishmen who had been sold by the British Government following the recent Irish risings to Prussia to labour in her salt mines and had later joined the Prussian army.

      The Irish Legion had its own flag, and in December 1805 received an eagle. The Legion was the only group of foreign soldiers in the French military to whom Napoleon ever gave an eagle. Wearing a green uniform, its maximum size was about 2,000 men.

      The regiment was greatly assisted from 1807 by Napoleon’s war minister Marshal of France Henri Clarke, who was born in France to Irish parents and whose family had close links to the ancien regime Irish brigade that had served the kings of France.” Wiki stuff

      If I’d been around at that time I’d have gladly fought for the French.

    143. Richard MacKinnon says:

      The faux outrage in this article and from this site’s hoards of camp followers is hilarious. Wings and The Reverend are the gift that keeps on giving. What exactly is it that Scottish nationalists expect of Ruth Davidson?

    144. Dan Huil says:

      Crowned himself emperor in 1804

    145. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Breeks @ 09:14,

      You speak there for me too, my friend.

      We should be able to quietly wear a small token of our personal homage to those who have gone into harm’s way for our sake, and do it without reservation.

      I believe that a lot of this industrialised commemoration we are getting nowadays isn’t a remembrance of the fallen at all, but instead is mourning for a lost empire. Something entirely different.

      They should both be remembered, of course, but not with anything like the same feeling.

    146. TheWasp says:

      Robert Peffers @ 10.07

      As well as using I use ixquick or duckduckgo for websearch I never ever use google.

    147. stewartb says:

      And finally from me on this subject, as the Tories make much of the £2.5m coming from the Libor Fund to Scotland as a result of their influence and intervention, it looks as if Scotland might well be short-changed – might actually do worse – this time round!

      According to the BBC in December 2013: “Five Scottish military charities are to receive a total of £5m gathered from UK banks in Libor fines.”


      So could the real headline turn out to be: ‘Scottish Tories fail to deliver as Scottish charities receive less from Libor Fund’? We’ll need to total up the awards to Scotland quite carefully!

    148. TheWasp says:

      Dick Leonard lying his arse off about the SNP on daily politics.

    149. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dan Huil @ 12:07,

      Veneration of Napoleon in France in later years was always a sure sign of a kind of proto-fascism.

      The kind of wish for a “strong man” or “super hero” who all on his own could solve all of society’s pesky problems.

      Coming back into vogue all over the place again these days, it seems. But not my kind of thing at all.

      (Though metrication was one incidental lasting benefit of Napoleon’s imperial ambitions, I’ll concede him that. =grin=)

    150. Big Jock says:

      Never heard Poppy Scotland complaining about what happens at Ibrox, with the sea load of poppies and jingoistic pro-military propaganda.

      To me Rangers have turned the poppy and the military into a pro unionist protestant symbol.

      BBC have foreign correspondents in New York and middle east wearing poppies. Did these people buy them at the local store. It seems freedom and democracy is now obligation and force.

    151. Dan Huil says:

      @Robert J Sutherland & Vestas

      First of all apologies for making a pig’s ear of my posts this morning. [Napoleon First Consul 1799 & Emperor 1804].

      Anyway, to follow the line that my enemy’s enemy is my friend I’d have supported the French in the same way the Irish Legion did, up until 1815. Similar to Scots supporting France against England in the 100 Years’ war.

      Fini, with small yellow face looking humble, or trying to.

    152. HandandShrimp says:


      If it was faux outrage then Tory MPs wouldn’t be deleting tweets.

      If you want to see faux outrage look at the pish written about Alex’s show. No one is deleting that 🙂

    153. geeo says:

      The very fact that people like Richard McKinnon and Rock etc are on here trying to stir up discord/disrupt topics is a clear indicator of the fear emanating from unionists, who realise the game is almost up.

      The more hysterical they get, the more obvious it is they are losing, and know it.

    154. geeo says:

      I see we are still getting wall to wall, 24 hour coverage of Zimbabwe..

      Meanwhile in Catalonia….apparently, nothing has happened there..a democratically elected government were not deposed illegally, elected politicians were not jailed for enforcing democratic mandates and fascist Spanish state police have definitely not been caught on camera beating up people trying to vote in a referendum they mandated….hmm..!

    155. Chick McGregor says:

      “What exactly is it that Scottish nationalists expect of Ruth Davidson?”

      A picture of a cake, with icing that reads ‘Day Job’.

    156. Breeks says:

      Richard MacKinnon says:
      21 November, 2017 at 12:11 pm
      The faux outrage in this article and from this site’s hoards of camp followers is hilarious. Wings and The Reverend are the gift that keeps on giving. What exactly is it that Scottish nationalists expect of Ruth Davidson?

      Well, integrity would be welcome change, a degree of honesty would be helpful, some morality and ethics would be appreciated, a decree of constancy in her adopted position would certainly be less confusing for some, and good deal less duplicity about her double standards about the conduct of councillors and MP’s, to have a great deal more respect for Scotland and Scottish democracy would be plus, (Referenda, even second ones, are democratic by the way), and also to have a healthy respect for Scotland’s people, not stereotype us all as spongers, thieves and vandals who can’t be trusted to attend public functions.

      A few more levels of self deprecation would be welcome from the buffalo riding MSP who celebrates mobility vehicles being removed from the disabled people who need them by posing with her trademark sensitivity for the Press in an off-road recreational mobility vehicle. A similar degree of sensitivity towards sectarianism in Scotland would be greatly appreciated, far more so than the active recruitment of bigots, Orange Order mouth prices and questionable Tories preoccupied with the size of their manhood to positions of political influence.

      Just once, I would like to see her putting Scotland’s interests ahead of her own, but given she is a self serving sociopath and Westminster sycophant who would sell her granny or politicise the armed forces just to further her career, I rather the suspect the only action which could see Ruth Davidson putting Scotland’s interests ahead of her own would be to step back from political life and spend the rest of her life in the obscurity she thoroughly deserves.

      But in purely personal terms, there is nothing I would like to see Ruth Davidson do besides crawling back under the stone she came out from. I would however simply adore to see Ruth Davidson being UK Prime Minster in office when Scotland brings the Act of Union to an end. Even if I wasn’t an ardent believer in Scottish Independence by first principle, it would still probably vote for it just for the giggles of seeing PM Ruthie’s face being able to steam fish when it happened.

      I know, I know, I know, friends, we don’t feed the troll, but Mr MacKinnon seems to think the rage and disgust we harbour towards Ruth Davidson is false. Let me reassure Richard, there is nothing “faux” , nor hilarious for that matter, about it. My joy springs from branch to branch in the tree of happiness that Ruth Davidson is on your side, and not ours. I think here in Scotland, we all dodged a bullet there, and that’s more than TA “veteran” Davison has ever done.

    157. Richard MacKinnon says:

      21 November, 2017 at 1:04 pm
      Thanks, but I prefer The Wing’s variety. The Reverend and his band get so much more angry. They do ‘outrage’ like no others. Its that unique ability to shift their outrage almost imperceptibly, from deluded injustice, to ‘thats no fair’ to the next stage, just showing itself, unwitting helplessness.

    158. geeo says:

      “What exactly is it that Scottish Nationalists expect of Ruth Davidson”

      Absolutely nothing, that way, nobody will be disappointed.

      Failing that…she could ride a buffalo off the top of the Pacific Quay screaming “let them eat cake”

    159. CameronB Brodie says:


      Spot on. We did very well to get to 45% in Indy1 when at least 95% of the media including the BBC, Sky, ITV etc were all for promoting the Union.

      Annual Colloquium on Fundamental Rights 2016
      “Media pluralism and democracy”

      A free media and a plurality of voices in society and in the media are indispensable preconditions of and essential safeguards for a healthy democracy. Freedom of expression and media freedom and pluralism are enshrined in Article 11 of the Charter of Fundamental rights of the European Union and are at the core of the basic democratic values on which the Union is founded….

    160. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Richard MacKinnon @ 13:27,

      As someone very wisely wrote recently (and not on WoS either), if you’re not angry right now, you’ve not been paying attention.

      So take your patronising complacency and put it where the sun don’t shine, pal.

    161. Jack Murphy says:

      Yesterday the remaining members of the EU decided the UK based European Medicines Agency will be relocated to Amsterdam as the UK leaves the EU.

      The Agency is responsible for the scientific evaluation, supervision and safety monitoring of medicines in the EU.

      A decision was also made to relocate to Paris the European Banking Authority, currently based in the UK.

    162. heraldnomore says:

      What Breeks said. Seconded.

    163. Ken500 says:

      Scotland lottery funds are reported to be severely underfunding. Being cut illegally all the time. The full amount never comes back. Used in the South for other purposes without any consultation.

    164. Les Wilson says:

      I have to say something about this law they voted for that animals have no pain emotions, making it hard to then stop cruelty to animals. An absolutely disgusting thing to even suggest.
      All animal life of all kinds, birds, all feel emotions as we do.

      Pain, hunger, happiness etc, this law is beyond disgust and the Tories have voted on it. Trying to ably describe this fucking useless deviant,shower of scum need to be put in the jungle and let lions loose on them.

      They are that bad, I do not usually swear in comments,but this… Fucking bastards. They need to be gone, and Scotland in particular needs to get it’s act together and get the fuck out of this den of iniquity that is that is called the United Kingdom.

    165. Richard MacKinnon says:

      21 November, 2017 at 1:27 pm
      I really cannot be bothered reading such a long comment.
      But I will tell you this for nothing, Ruth Davidson will love this article. I bet she got a right laugh out of it. I know she likes a joke.
      This article tells you something; if you try and look at it objectively (I know that is a long shot); there is direct corelation here, between two factors; the number of articles The Reverend writes about Ruth Davidson and her success as a politician. They are directly proportional.

    166. HandandShrimp says:


      Delighted you enjoy Wings so much. There is a reason it is one of the most popular political sites in the UK 🙂

    167. Richard MacKinnon says:

      Robert J. Sutherland,
      21 November, 2017 at 1:33 pm

      I will be taking my patronising complacency nowhere. I like it here.

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      Britain is a failed attempt at methodological nationalism and state-building, as UKOK does not provide the democratic structures or practices needed to ensure an equitable distribution of power within it’s constituent nations. The media is both a reflection of this lack of plural democracy and a part of the cause.

      A comparative analysis of media freedom and pluralism in the EU Member States

      4.5. Journalistic ethics, media literacy and protection of sources

      Achieving a diversity of media content in the media market – especially under less-than-ideal conditions – depends to a great extent on the professional behaviour of the journalists. Individual journalists make choices every day when they write an article or shoot a story.129 While the macro (i.e. the ownershipand the structural) level of pluralism is in the focus of policy and research, the quality of media content depends ultimately on the quality of individual journalists’ performance. Jakubowicz described post-communist journalists as paternalistic and didactic, pointing out that the media and journalists are not victims but rather accomplices in reproducing this awkward system.1

      5.1. Democracy

      The European Union is founded on a set of common principles listed in Article 2 of the Treaty on European Union (TEU), namely “respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities”. As the High-Level Group on Media Freedom and Pluralism formulated: “Given the important role media plays as part of a functioning democracy – by creating transparency, by having the ability to challenge those in power and by helping to develop informed citizens – these concerns go to the heart of (values) on which the European Union is based”. It further pronounced: “There can be no genuine democracy at the EU level if media freedom and pluralism are not guaranteed throughout the European political space.”137

      MSs are vetted for their compliance with these values before they accede to the Union138 by way of applying the so-called “Copenhagen criteria” established in 1993.139 Indeed, freedom of expression and media freedom are key indicators of a country’s readiness to become part of the EU.140 That notwithstanding, no similar method exists to supervise and regularly monitor adherence to the above-mentioned foundational legal principles after accession takes place. A gap emerged between the proclamation of foundational values and principles, and their actual enforcement. MSs may thus abuse the fact that EU membership is a one-way-street without compelling exclusion criteria, and might jeopardise EU values including democracy, freedom of expression, media freedom and pluralism. This may reach an extent that MSs would not be permitted to accede, had they not been already member countries – a phenomenon referred to by Vice-President of the European Commission Viviane Reding as the “Copenhagen dilemma”.141

    169. Robert Graham says:

      Oh dear

      Oh dear here we go again,

      Some passing nut-job tosses in a grenade and everyone falls for it , as usual either ignore it or a quick f/off usual does the trick , any kind of dialogue is a waste of your time and simply adds to breaking up the current thread,

      So piss off Richard . Your as welcome as a fart in a lift that’s stuck between floors . BYEE

    170. dakk says:

      ‘Thanks, but I prefer The Wing’s variety. The Reverend and his band get so much more angry.’

      A BBC,Saville,Westminster paedo ring,war crime apologist speaks.

      Unwittingly helpless while all that goes on are you Britnat ?

    171. donald mac says:


      You ask ‘What exactly is it that Scottish nationalists expect of Ruth Davidson?’ then when you get a detailed reply you say you can’t be bothered reading such a long comment!!

      Why are you posting questions here if you won’t read the replies?

    172. Fred says:

      So soldiers in Highland regiments who survived the “Great Patriotic War!” & returned to their homes to find eviction, clearance & burnt hooses, were right to fight the French? Napoleon invaded a hostile Europe to get rid of corrupt regimes & give the land to the people, as was done in France.

      Whose glens were they? the lairds knew the answer to that one!

    173. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Richard MacKinnon @ 13:51:

      I like it here.

      ‘Course you do. So do we. So do very, very many other people too, and (apart from a few obvious spoilers) all for very good reason.

      But if you ever get your own Ruthie fanboy website, I’m sure we would be delighted to return the complement and at the same time substantially increase your viewing numbers from the low tens. Which is undoubtedly the reason why you prefer to come here and stir it instead.

    174. Giving Goose says:

      Richard McKinnon

      Why don’t you change your name to something more British, like Worthington-Sponce, get on a bus, get yourself south (if not already there) and immerse yourself in all things British in the land of your wanna be birth.

      Sample the delights of Suburban London, you won’t be able to afford a house to live in and you’ll travel check by jowl with your fellow Brits on the way to work in overcrowded non-luxury, but who cares eh? All subsidised by those Jock tax payers. You’ll be amongst your own, gasping for breath and sweating buckets.
      Refresh yourself from a non-taxpaying global coffee outlet that pays minimum wage to a hard working soon to be ex-immigrant from Europe (who’s selling you the coffee next year? Trick question, I know).

      Don’t go to Kennsington or you’ll be tripping over people sleeping in doorways while rich Arabs drive by in posh cars. It’s all Equality Plus in Good Old Blighted Blighty. Proud!

      Or settle in the Northern Powerhouse somewhere and don’t have a job, live in Blight(y)ed ignorance with no job, but who cares eh? You’ll be amongst your own.

      How about racist Chelsea. Get a high-rise, admire the view of the glorious burned out towers where ordinary folk used to live. The more well heeled (healed?) locals will welcome you with open arms as one of their own (not!).

      How about Devonport. I hear there used to be a Royal Navy but they don’t really do that now; I see no ships. Because there is no navy!

      I know! Devon or Cornwall. No jobs. No houses to call your own (all bought up as second homes by those well heeled folk in Chelsea again).

      How about Oxford? You could study Politics, Philosophy and Economics and become Prime Minister. It’ll cost you £humungous per year in tuition fees, but you probably don’t have the breeding (or accent) to get in. You definitely won’t be among your own, unless you want to live in Cowley, and trust wouldn’t!

      And don’t get ill down there while deciding where to live and what to do, or you’ll find yourself on a trolley, dying, in a corridor, while the NHS looks for someone to take your pulse. But hey, you’ll be among your own.

      Of course, you could go to see Queen Liz and ask for gift aid to get you started, but it’ll take ages for Liz to access that account in Panama (and the hassle with the tax, don’tcha know!).

      Still, don’t let that stop you, get yourself down to the land of your wanna be birth. Blend in with the homeless, the destitute and the low paid. Hopefully it won’t all go tits up and you find yourself and fellow Brits invaded by those pesky Russians. The army won’t stop them because there is no army anymore; just like the navy.

      Good luck and Rule Britannia.

    175. Richard MacKinnon says:

      donald mac
      21 November, 2017 at 2:00 pm

      Its a time constarint. I get so many replies to my comments I can only deal with the concise ones.

    176. Breeks says:

      The Reverend writes about Ruth Davidson and her success as a politician….

      Oh Richard, now you’ve got me laughing… objectively.

    177. Sinky says:

      TALKING of donkeys not one Scottish Labour MP voted for Ian Murray’s amendment to remain in Customs Union. And where was Lib Dem Jo Swinson who didn’t vote?

      So who represents the Scottish voters that overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU?

    178. Robert Graham says:

      Looks like the delectable Arlene of DUP infamy is looking to pick a fight over the border, with the Irish government, meanwhile in the lords a muppet associated with the DUP floating a get control of the Scottish parliament opinion. Or else ! . Or else what , or else our nasty arm will be raised.

      This has the same flavour as the Tory party in Scotland a small party trying to punch above its weight , that in the end will go to any lengths and that includes public unrest and violence .

      Starting to use a different tactic Ruth ? , having failed with the democratic route , looks like democracy is too slow as a means of shutting up the Independence movement , a more drastic method must now be implemented . Aye nothing beyond this lot , anything goes .

    179. One_Scot says:

      Oh-oh, someones been on the wacky-backy. Lol.

    180. donald mac says:


      How would you know if the reply was concise or not if you didn’t read it?

    181. Ron Maclean says:

      @Richard MacKinnon 12.11pm

      What exactly is it that Scottish nationalists expect of Ruth Davidson?

      Subservience to Westminster – nothing more, nothing less.

    182. Jack Murphy says:

      Nana supplied links at 8:42am today.
      Here’s just one of them:

      Labour VOTES WITH the Tories on Brexit.

      The PARTY’S FRONTBENCH ORDERED MPs to vote against a bid to keep the UK in the Single Market and Customs Union.”!

    183. Richard MacKinnon says:

      21 November, 2017 at 1:48 pm
      Your right, WOS is a successful political website. The Reverend is a clever guy. Wings is like The Sun newspaper. The most successful newspaper in the country. And there many similarities in the road to their success. One similarity is that both The Reverend and The Sun know their customers and they know what they want. That is why both have so many followers and make so much of money.

    184. wull2 says:

      They say that RT is a propaganda media outlet, people from the UK know this and take this into account, Its our media that some people don’t realise the propaganda that goes on, they will learn the hard way, when it is too late.

    185. Lollysmum says:

      Sorry for O/T but can someone refresh my memory about the EU residents & any other immigrants who had businesses in Scotland or jobs & then were forced to leave by Home Office. There was the Brains family, not sure but was another the Zeigdorfs? I know some had married Scots but still had to leave uk but I can’t remember any names-also I believe one was a carer for his Scottish wife

      Context-been talking to my Spanish dentist this morning about Brexit & whether he will be forced to leave. He’s Spanish, been here 8 years, has his own practice & when he queried what was going to happen after EU referendum he was told by NHS ‘nothing’. Not exactly helpful so I’m looking for info to show him what has been happening as he’s been under the impression for 18 months that nothing is going to happen & he won’t be affected. He doesn’t watch UK tv or read newspapers etc as he uses Spanish media to stay in touch.

      Another family, German Dad & Scottish Mum with 18 yr old Scottish twins (born here)have had to obtain German passports for their children because husband works for a German company so he may have to leave once Brexit is complete.

      Any names or links you can give would be great thanks

    186. Richard MacKinnon says:

      Ron Maclean
      21 November, 2017 at 2:31 pm

      I dont think RD wants to highlight that in any way. She is no different than the rest of Scotland’s politicians, any politicians; all they want is to be seen to be doing a good job, and by doing so win elections.
      That said, I have to point Holyrood is subserviant to Westminster. It is a devolved assembly. That is the rules.
      What exactly is it that Scottish nationalists expect of Ruth Davidson?

      Subservience to Westminster – nothing more, nothing less.

    187. Richard MacKinnon says:

      donald mac s
      21 November, 2017 at 2:30 pm

      By the length of its column.

    188. geeo says:

      As i said…the more these yoons post here, the more desperate they are.

    189. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Sinky @ 14:24,
      Robert Graham @ 14:27,

      Aye, this is the real-life banjax that the Tories (Ruthie’s witless wee army included) – happily assisted by Corbyn’s “mee-too” band of heroes – are getting us deeper and deeper into.

      And exactly why distraction artists like MacKinnon are busy on here now. It’s squirrel season yet again. (So many of those jumpy wee craturs around these days.)

    190. Giving Goose says:

      Robert Graham

      Who is the muppet that you refer to and is there a link or reference somewhere, please?

    191. TheItalianJob says:

      @CameronB Brodie at 1.30pm

      Thanks for the response and the link. Pity the UKOK doesn’t follow that charter. And now with Brexit they will make their own rules up and suppress freedom of speech even more.

      Won’t stop us here on Wings though. Ha Ha!

      Good posts by all the regulars as usual on this subject.

    192. Dan Huil says:

      As I’ve said before what happens in the north of Ireland will be very important to what happens in Scotland in the coming months. We’re definitely seeing/hearing increased hysteria from hardline British nationalists in the north of Ireland. Their hatred for the Republic of Ireland is as strong as ever.

      A re-united Ireland is getting closer, as is a Scotland with its independence regained.

      It’s all wonderfully ironic since I believe britnats in Westminster couldn’t care less about britnats in Ireland and would happily sacrifice these “loyalists” if it meant keeping hold of their “Singapore by the Thames” straw. Same goes for Westminster’s attitude towards britnats in Scotland. Delicious.

    193. revjimbob says:

      Davidson either does not know the meaning of the word ‘plethora’, or she thinks the Scottish Tories have been bringing up ‘Scottish concerns’ too much at Westminster.

    194. Petra says:

      It’s clear that Ruth Davidson has put forward a number of proposals to her bosses at Westminster in an attempt to boost her popularity north of the border with the ultimate aim of keeping the Tories in power at Westminster … (Scottish Mail on Sunday: ”This week the Chancellor and I aim to show that there’s a better way; Scotland as part of the UK, to the benefit of all.”)

      As an example SNP politicians have broached the subject of ‘no VAT refund’ for Scottish police and Fire Services at Westminster on 30 occasions over the last 3/4 years. If the Westminster Government does a U-turn on this now and commends the Ruth Davidson cabal for their change of heart it will send out a clear message that Scotland is being treated abysmally due to voting for an SNP Government. Highlight that it was in their power to do so previously.

      What too of people who have lost their lives in Scotland due to a lack of funds to our Emergency Services over the last 3/4 years? Or the potential loss of lives? The great terrorist threat that T May bleats on about constantly. A terrorist threat exacerbated due to nuclear weapons being dumped on Scottish soil. Tories happy to put people’s lives at risk? That’s what you get for voting for the SNP?

      What they seem to be oblivious of is that employees of our emergency services, and no doubt their family members and friends, will see right through this and become aware of what’s been going on (if they don’t already). This applies to all employees in our schools and NHS who must be totally scunnered with the guff that they read / hear about in the MSM on a daily basis.

      One wonders too what we should make of this Davidson comment .. ”A few weeks ago I met Mr Hammond in Aberdeen where he saw the economic opportunities provided by our brilliant oil and gas industry.” Another Scottish Tory induced U-turn? We’ll see.

      And isn’t that one of the most ridiculous statements that you’ve ever come across? Westminster, as we all know, is well aware of the economic benefits of Scotland’s oil and gas industry. In fact that’s what’s been keeping England, the subsidy junkie, afloat for decades now. Who’s kidding who? Try pulling the other one Ruth.


      If you are new to the site please check out the following links. Spend some time on the BfS site and find out why Norway is still benefiting, GREATLY, from it’s oil revenue whilst Westminster seems to be making nought (so they say). Scotland making less than nought with loss of jobs and so on.

      ‘McCrone Report.’

      ‘Stolen Seas.’

      ‘Jim Rodgers: Little England can’t survive without Scottish oil.’

    195. Bob Mack says:

      Can anyone, I mean anyone, explain to me what is faux outrage about being annoyed about politicians utilising the memory of dead and injured soldiers as a political pawn?

      Something seriously wrong with someone who believes that is in any way acceptable. Tory thinking.

      Just glad there are many more like me

    196. snode1965 says:

      Hello Richard MacKinnon… Or should I say Sensible Dave?

    197. Scott says:

      Scottish Tory MP sent ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ Christmas card over Brexit

      Where was the post mark

    198. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Giving Goose @ 14:53,

      I believe his intended muppet du jour is Lord Empey, who demanded to a virtually empty Lords’ chamber yesterday evening that Holyrood should be made to justify all its decisions to Westminster.

      In order to prevent Ulster’s troubles coming to Scotland, y’know. =cough=

      Bowing, scraping, knee-bending and forelock-tugging being all part of the Great BritNat tradition that benefits all we benighted peripheral savages.

      It’s featured on the front page of The National today and in an inside article.

    199. heedtracker says:

      More reality from the scumbags. If ex soldiers cant find a place to live now…

    200. ScottieDog says:

      Anyone fancy a bit of research?
      Interesting link..

      “Up to 80% of all Oceanic traffic passes through the Shanwick Oceanic Control Area (OCA), which is airspace controlled by the United Kingdom. With this in mind, we created a data visualisation showing a day of traffic from August last year and the oceanic airspace structures that help to make it all work.”

      Ooft I wonder how much revenue that generates?

    201. TheItalianJob says:


      I was thinking the same myself the other day. Either the regulars here scared him off with our posts or he’s hibernating for the winter to appear next spring.


    202. heedtracker says:

      What exactly is it that Scottish nationalists expect of Ruth Davidson?

      To be less of an arse really, much less.

      She’s got the potential to be the next Mike Gove, maybe another Liam Fox grade maniac, perhaps a toryboy catastrofuck like Norman Lamont, just some of the greatest Scottish haha tory twats ever farted into the UKOK ether:D

      But she’ll be plonking her ever growing airse on the House of Lords button backed red leather seats of shame, I’d say in about 5 to 7 years time. Its the great toryboy reward for loyals like Colonel Ruth.

    203. Liz g says:

      ScottieDog @ 3.52
      That’s a really fascinating link…not just for how much revenue it generates.
      But also how control of that airspace will need to be reorganized after Indy?
      Presumably Holyrood will be well aware of the potential there as ,if I mind right they (as in we) own it!

      Mibbi this is one for Yesindyrerf2 to look at he/she is normally up on that kind of stuff??

    204. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dan Huil @ 15:18,

      I sometimes wonder what it would take to get our southern cousins to flip wholesale into “England First” mode, and be glad to get shot of us. The average audience member of QT is clearly there already, but there’s not nearly enough change elsewhere. How could we possibly help them along? =grin=

      The English Tories are clearly obsessed about money, nothing but money, and forget all the rest. In NI, the DUP are sinking into a total no-win guddle, an extra embellishment on Brexit that is entirely of their own making. There is no way out they are willing to take that does them any good.

      Delicious for we distant popcorn guzzlers, but a dismal prospect for ordinary folk there. The only Loyalist response seems to be to increasingly threaten to export their best-known product (ie. trouble) over to us.

      The Republic has a veto over the Brexit settlement, so it’s WTO rules and a hard border everywhere for sure unless something from left-field suddenly materialises out of thin air. The DUP could at a pinch shed the Remainer border counties to the Republic and live behind a high Brit wall with the dregs, but I can’t see that happening either, somehow.

    205. TheItalianJob says:

      @heedtracker at 3.58pm

      And don’t forget our very own Edinburgh boy Malky Rifkind now a nice Tory boy representing Kensington at Westminster after the plebs kicked him oot of Edinboro.

    206. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi TheItalianJob at 3:53 pm.

      You typed,
      “I was thinking the same myself the other day. Either the regulars here scared him off with our posts or he’s hibernating for the winter to appear next spring.”

      sensibledave has been posting regularly on the page below for the past couple of weeks.

      His latest was at 1.22 this afternoon.

    207. Dr Jim says:

      There’s Socialism and there’s “SoCiAlIsM”

      What Corbyn has in mind isn’t either of those

      This is even more dangerous than Toryism and that’s serious enough

      Lord help us if Scotland lets any of this lot anywhere near power

    208. Balaaargh says:

      What exactly is it that Scottish nationalists expect of Ruth Davidson?

      I expect nothing from her. Which is exactly what she’s given.

    209. TheItalianJob says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon at 4.19pm

      Oh no. I went for a quick look and yes he’s there right enough.

      Scrolled past his posts as I usually do with the usual suspects even though on occasions some have replied to some of my posts.

      Thanks for the “heads up”.

      They still “lie” amongst us in waiting.


    210. Ron Maclean says:

      @Richard Mackinnon 2.42pm

      ‘I dont think RD wants to highlight that in any way.’

      I agree.

      ‘… I have to point Holyrood is subserviant to Westminster. It is a devolved assembly. That is the rules.’

      Again I agree. That’s what I want to change.

    211. Petra says:

      @ Lollysmum says at 2:40 pm …. ”Sorry for O/T but can someone refresh my memory about the EU residents & any other immigrants who had businesses in Scotland or jobs & then were forced to leave by Home Office. There was the Brains family, not sure but was another the Zeigdorfs? I know some had married Scots but still had to leave uk but I can’t remember any names-also I believe one was a carer for his Scottish wife….”

      Most of the people being fired out of Scotland by the Home Office are non-EU nationals Lollysmum, such as Australians, Americans and Canadians. I think that the carer for his Scottish wife (if the same story she was English) was a US citizen.

      Some of them had children who were born in Scotland of course.

      Sorry I can’t help you more Lollysmum, however we do know that T May’s plan is to train up as many UK citizens as doctors / dentists and then fire the EU nationals out of the country. Hopefully someone else will come up with some examples to help you.


      @ Sinky says at 2:24 pm …. ”TALKING of donkeys not one Scottish Labour MP voted for Ian Murray’s amendment to remain in Customs Union. And where was Lib Dem Jo Swinson who didn’t vote? So who represents the Scottish voters that overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU?”

      Ruth Davidson’s opening line in the Scottish Mail on Sunday states, ”For the past ten years the SNP has won over many people in Scotland with a simple message ‘’Only we can stand up for Scotland.’’

      Well, what we can see with your post Sinky is ANOTHER fine example that highlights that the only MP’s at Westminster that always put Scotland first ARE the SNP.

      Ian Murray and Kezia Dugdale should consider bailing out of the Labour Party and joining the SNP.

    212. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Petra @ 16:40,

      As for “who sticks up for Scotland?”, this latest business, whose gaff was blown by Lamont’s premature blurting, is an obvious wheeze for Hammond to throw a few crumbs our way tomorrow as “proof” that it’s only the Ruthmeister who can actually deliver the goods, whatever the numbers of bums on seats in HoC.

      It’s as pathetically transparent as that. We’ll have Ruth crowing wall-to-wall tomorrow on Misreporting NorthBritLand. =sigh= Just wait and see.

    213. Ottomanboi says:

      The establishment takes smug comfort from the possibility that when the great decision time comes many Scots will, true to their cautiously conservative inclination, stick with the status quo.
      The likes of Davidson know their ‘constituency’ and wallow in the unsavoury fact that you dont have to be a Daily Mail reading BritNat to think and vote like one when pensions, mortgage rates etc enter the field. Also Scotland’s ageing population, which is augmented by elderly English retirees, and our low birth rate does give the Unionist reactionaries a nice edge.
      Time is not exactly on our side. Nationalist politicians need to be reminded, frequently, of that fact.
      Scotland’s divorce from England like the UK’s from the EU could well be a hard one. I suspect that Mr Salmond, by his actions, has already internalized that possibility. We have nothing to loose by casting all native caution to the four winds.

    214. Balaaargh says:

      @Ron McLean,

      Sorry to go all Peffers on you here but I disagree. The Scotland Act 1998 states it is “An Act to provide for the establishment of a Scottish Parliament”

      Whilst the Wales Act 1998 states it is “An Act to establish and make provision about the National Assembly for Wales”.

      The English language contains many subtle differences and today’s troll is trying to downplay the existence of our Parliament with this.

    215. methinks Col Davidson is getting above her station……makes me cringe when I see comments of this nature

    216. geeo says:

      Labour will NOT be suspending Dugdale for taking an unauthorised leave of absence from her day job..!!

      Seems it is a directive from Corbyn himself.
      “UK Labour party leader Jeremy Corbyn has already said Ms Dugdale should not be suspended for taking part in the reality TV show”

    217. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Giving Goose @ 14:53,
      me @ 15:50,

      There’s a very good article (as usual) BTW on that very subject by Peter A. Bell at:

    218. Ken500 says:

      Corbyn takes part in reality shows. Boring,

    219. Ken500 says:

      Corbyn says Yes Leonard say No. Decisions and division. It’s not funny they don’t talk anymore.

    220. Dr Jim says:

      Confirmation that Labour in Scotland are without doubt a branch office just as Johaan Lamont said they were

      While the people who sat behind Kezia Dugdale plotted her downfall and wanted her out as did Richard Leonard Neil Findlay and the rest they’ve been overuled by their master in London Jeremy Corbyn who’s feart she’ll spill the beans on Labour, panics and orders her to be kept in a job until she spills the beans then he’ll deny it was him and shove it straight back on Labour in Scotland

      That’s how to lead without getting your hands dirty eh Jeremy
      You can fool all or some or in this case NAEBDY!!

    221. Petra says:

      @ geeo says at 5:04 pm ….”Labour will NOT be suspending Dugdale for taking an unauthorised leave of absence from her day job..!! Seems it is a directive from Corbyn himself. “UK Labour party leader Jeremy Corbyn has already said Ms Dugdale should not be suspended for taking part in the reality TV show.”

      Two points Geeo. Once again it proves that Scottish Labour politicians are beholden to their Westminster Labour bosses (what happened to their autonomy?) and secondly that Corbyn is trying to keep the lid on what Kezia Dugdale is ready to spout. It won’t work, imo. Won’t work because she’s nursing the annihilative wrath that she holds against a good number of them and that includes Leonard and Corbyn. It may also include Nicola of course if her green eyed monster is not reined in.


      @ Robert J. Sutherland says at 4:55 pm …. ”Petra … As for “who sticks up for Scotland?”, this latest business, whose gaff was blown by Lamont’s premature blurting, is an obvious wheeze for Hammond to throw a few crumbs our way tomorrow as “proof” that it’s only the Ruthmeister who can actually deliver the goods, whatever the numbers of bums on seats in HoC. It’s as pathetically transparent as that. We’ll have Ruth crowing wall-to-wall tomorrow on Misreporting NorthBritLand. =sigh= Just wait and see.”

      I know you can just see it right now, RJS. What way this is going to go. Let’s hope that it backfires on them. For example if we had any half decent journalists in Scotland they would be demanding to know why our SNP politicians weren’t listened to. Pointing out that their Tory ‘game playing’ has been putting Scots at risk.

    222. Robert Graham says:

      Giving Goose sorry for not answering you Re- The Muppet , but Robert J Sutherland helped out, thanks to him , yes it was indeed Lord Empey who has previous links to the DUP & possibly the UUP,
      Not content with trouble in his own patch he seems to want to export the DUPs or any type of Ulster unionisms particular brand of politics to the mainland via Scotland, it was mentioned by Peter A Bell in the letters section of the national who ran the story of A Peer calling for Westminster to oversee Holyrood,
      Peter I believe was questioning whether he was simply testing the waters by raising this just now, or this might indeed be the way the tories are going to approach this after control over their more rabid right wing policy’s are given free reign after the EU no longer has some kind of control over them

    223. AlbertaScot says:

      Looks like the “God Save our Gracious Team” guy was the first SLaber to get voted off the island. Not Kez.

      Little Ricky Leonard ain’t the king of the jungle after all when the caucus spoke. And saved Dugdale’s ass.

      Brilliant start for the Yorkshire Pie Man.

      First the soccer football team bobble. Next he gets his peepee slapped by the folks he’s supposed to be leading in what only can be seen as a vote of nonconfidence.

      And he hasn’t even got roughed up in his first FMQ yet.

      If they’d punted Kezia guaranteed she’d have been over on the SNP benches with her sweety long before the first crocus of spring.

      Probably still will be once Leonard gets to weave his political magic for a few weeks more.

    224. winifred mccartney says:

      Can someone explain to me the difference between WM Labour and The WM Tories, Labour went with tories on EU laws, went with tories on Single Market – they did not support Ian Murray. What is labour policy on the EU.

      As for Kez the Autonomous Scottish branch office bottled it – London called. In other words if it turns out good for labour – no suspension, if it turns out bad – she was always going to be suspended. Labour no principals, no change.

    225. PictAtRandom says:

      Something of more consequence than “Richard MacKinnon” or Richard Leonard.
      If something like this is coming then maybe we should rethink our game plan:

      (Particularly directed at those who rejoice in the demise of paper media and think that a world full of Fleecebook and pixellated Daily Mail is our friend.)

    226. Dan Huil says:

      More ammunition to use against britnat media liars:

    227. ScottieDog says:

      @Liz g
      I was thinking about it the other day. Most of the Atlantic entry points are in scottish airspace. Scottish extends from Carlisle up to the pharoe Isles

    228. Marcia says:

      I had a look at the British Legions accounts awhile back and was shocked at the amount of expenses the Trustees claimed.

    229. Gary says:

      Brazen, unapologetic and attempting to hide behind ‘patriotism’ to dog-whistle the Orange-biased and unthinking morons who vote Tory. Any shred of dignity and sense of fairness has been stripped from them. They aren’t even hiding their vileness anymore…

    230. Hamish100 says:

      Dan Huill

      Wee ginger article is good.

      Your right no single market in electricity generation. The Tories and Labour have charged us more in an attempt to support their English generating stations.

    231. Ken500 says:

      Not another abuse of public money. They are all at it. Unaccountable.

    232. Ron Maclean says:

      @Balaaargh 4.57pm

      The Rev posted “Where you stand” on 22 June 2017 which included –

      “The Supreme Court’s judgment in the article 50 case demonstrated the completely subordinate nature of the devolved legislatures”.

      The post ended with “Remember your place, lesser nations of the UK.”

    233. Robert Peffers says:

      As to search engines using censorship – they have done so since ever there were search engines. When the McCrone Report came out we old hands knew about it but it was very quickly suppressed and was actually, unbelievably, placed under the Official Secrets Act. Both Labour and Conservative administrations made damned sure it stayed that way.

      That is until an SNP freedom of Information request had it made public. Now just consider that, in the interim, there was nothing to be found by use of search engines.

      However :-

      There you go.

      Eventually a Tory Government dreamt up the GERS Figures:-

      “Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland”, figures. This has long since been revealed, (from official government documents), as designed to give a false set of government figures in order to suppress the movement towards Scottish Independence. You do not even need to be highly numerate in order to dissect these figures as absolute gobbledegook.

      You can do this just by examining the hard facts, For example – Why is the oil & gas revenues classed as being from, the Westminster invented, “Extra-Regio-Territory of, The United Kingdom”, when as much as 98% of them lie in Scottish Territorial waters that remain under Scottish jurisdiction?

      To clarify why this is obviously pure daylight robbery all you need to know is the dictionary meaning of the term, “extraregio”.

      The economic territory of a country can be broken down into regional and extraregio territory.

      The extraregio territory is made up of parts of the economic territory of a country which cannot be attached directly to a single region.

      So, before going any further, “The United Kingdom”, is exactly that – a united kingdom formed by a political treaty between two equally sovereign KINGDOMS and one of those kingdoms is composed of three countries. Ergo the United Kingdom is NOT a country. Neither is Scotland a, “Region”, of either the United Kingdom or the Kingdom or country of England.

      So there is the first, and biggest lie.

      Then there are a great many other confidence tricks used by Westminster to, let’s not be mealy mouthed about this, steal Scottish wealth from the people of Scotland.

      Here are just a few:-

      Exports of Scottish products that leave the United Kingdom from English ports and airports are counted as English Exports – How can, “Scotch”, whisky that can only be legally claimed as from Scotland be counted as an English export?

      Consider also the, “National”, Electricity Grid. Now since ever there has been a National Electricity Grid, (immediately post WWII), Scotland has exported power to England and the main reason to instigate a National Grid was because some urban areas cannot generate enough electricity for their needs and the main one is London & Greater England or indeed the entire South East of England.

      Now, in any other market the producers of a commodity are expected to charge the best price they can demand for their produce and those where any kind of produce is in short supply usually have to pay premium prices.

      Not though in the United Kingdom. Westminster has imposed a scale of charges for electricity producers to add their product to, “The National Grid”, and they call this, “The Grid Connection Charge”, which increases the further from London the generators are situated – but wait, it gets worse – they also actually subsidise generators situated in and around London to add power to the National Grid. How many Wingers have seen that mentioned in the main stream media?

      Yet those who benefit most from this theft of a nation’s recourses are the very worst offenders who sneer at Scots and call us, “Subsidy Junkies”. That not only includes the majority of English MPs but, believe it or not, virtually all the Scottish unionists MPs, MSPs and councillors.

      Anyway, after the GERS Figures were published for some years a Scottish forensic accountant, Niall Aslan, analysed and write a exposé of GERS in 2005 and he titled it, “The Great Deception” :-

      It was explosive but … it very soon became very hard to find on the internet by search engines NOT carrying it or by doing exactly as Google is now doing with certain matters that Westminster wants hidden.

      Not only that but there was a rash of other matters suddenly being found with the same title and the Scottish man’s work was well down the list.

      Niall Aslen then re-wrote his work in 2006 and titled it as, “The Great Obfuscation”, and there soon began the same process again with everyone and their dug producing things with the same title but – how come the original got relegated to the end of the list?

      If you ever designed and ran your own website you soon found out many ways of moving your work up the list of search engine results and, believe it or not, there were companies who actually existed that guaranteed to move your site up the rankings for a fee. They probably still exist.

    234. Dr Jim says:

      MisReporting Scotland sees Bryan Taylor informing us of Scotlands tax raising powers slips in the phrase “What will happen to pensions”

      As Bryan Taylor knows full well pensions are reserved to the English parliament and not a devolved matter so what was he playing at and who does he think was listening, frightened pensioners maybe?

      A bit of a Gordon Brown big fat slimy lie there

      The slimy way they reported on Fergusons shipyard our new ferries their workers and even future orders of which there are plenty was disgusting and all managed without a word about Scotlands former FM who was pivotal in saving that yard along with owner Jim McColl who rebuilt the yard from 7 workers to 500 and renewed all the infrastructure as well

      But typical of the slimy BBC they end the piece on Fergusons *hoping* for MOD orders for the future, all I can say to Jim McColl is… Beware! Beware! Beware!!

      Once again we have a band of southern immigrants coming to Scotland intent on hindering the creation and building of much needed infrastucture and housing in Jordanhill by taking their case to GCC where in the past they would have won but now are furious because the SNP and not Unionist Labour are in charge now
      This is happening right along our borders and into Galloway as well

      The English government don’t want EU immigrants in Scotland who would likely vote YES in the next Independence referendum so the new and improved south to north immigration system which will be foisted upon Scotland will be encouraged or even paid for by a new relocation grant by the English government

      Err yer immigration or is it as one famous movie put it, We’ll breed them out

    235. geeo says:

      @petra, your 2nd point re dugdale is more like the real reason she was not shelved.

      Sacing Dugdale = a real shitstorm for Labour.

    236. Richard MacKinnon says:

      Ron Maclean
      21 November, 2017 at 4:31 pm

      You have a big problem. What you want to change.(Holyrood is subserviant to Westminster.) was decided in 2014. You cant change it.

    237. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      “Rock at 11.24

      The Scottish Government can have as many referendums as it likes. The Edinburgh Agreement was about agreeing the format and accepting the result,not about permission being sought and given”

      How many referendums has the Scottish Government had so far?


      Why only one in 20 years of existence if it can hold as many as it likes?

      The Edinburgh Agreement was specifically about Section 30 permission from Westminster.

      As you know perfectly well, the Scottish Parliament has very limited powers.

      Until and unless the Scottish Government holds a referendum without any agreement being sought from Westminster, you are wrong, not me.

    238. Rock says:

      Chick McGregor,

      “If Cameron had not signed it Alex would have held it anyway.”

      Totally unproven statement after the event.

      Rock (8th October – “The shoogly peg”):

      “I can say with 100% confidence that Saint Theresa is not going to give permission to Nicola to hold another referendum before Brexit has been completed.

      I can say with 99% confidence that Nicola will not dare defy Saint Theresa.”

      After losing much ground in the “snap” election (14% vote share, 22 MPs and half a million votes), Nicola can barely utter the “i” word let alone hold an illegal independence referendum.

      Why did she put referendum legislation on hold after the “snap” UK election if she does not need Westminster’s permission?

      Rock (28th June – “Slight reprise”):

      “The UK will have a “snap” Brexit while we are caught napping with no legislation in place for an independence referendum.”

      You can only prove me wrong if an independence referendum is held before Brexit has been completed.

    239. Hamish100 says:


      and when they do -you would find something else to moan about

      It is up to the people to decide with or without westminster.

      what is it with you guys. you find a hole jump in and complain it ain’t big enough

      I will fight for independence like DMcEHill and ilk. You find excuses to fail.

    240. geeo says:

      Seems andra neil has been making a bigger spectacle of himself than these 2 yoon zoomers polluting these airways…

      Similair issues mind you !

    241. Michael McCabe says:

      Rock. Same old Jackie Bailey

    242. Ron Maclean says:

      @Richard Mackinnon 8.32pm

      ‘There is nothing permanent except change’.


    243. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers, when was the last time “sovereign” Scots exercised their “sovereignty” to impeach a ruling monarch?

    244. Rock says:


      “I will fight for independence like DMcEHill and ilk.”

      Well, good luck for the next 620 years.

      While African colonies have been independent for decades, Scotland remains a colony after 310 years.

      You can only start fighting for independence once you have accepted that Scotland is a colony of England with very little powers.

      Boasting about pretendy “sovereignty” and non existent powers of the Scottish parliament will get you nowhere.

    245. Phronesis says:

      So much real news to report about leaving the EU. The opportunities for UKOK to legislate for indentured servitude and Dickensian living conditions for the plebs abound.

      ‘The aims of the Union are inter alia to promote the well-being of its peoples and to work for the sustainable development of Europe based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment. The Union shall combat social exclusion and discrimination, promote social justice and protection, equality between women and men, solidarity between generations and protection of the rights of the child. The Union recognises and promotes the role of the social partners at its level, taking into account the diversity of the national systems. It is to facilitate dialogue between them and respect their autonomy. The European Parliament has called for a solid European Pillar of Social Rights to reinforce social rights and deliver a positive impact on people’s lives in the short and medium term and enable support for European construction in the 21st century. The European Pillar of Social Rights respects the diversity of the cultures and traditions of the peoples of Europe, as well as the national identities of the Member States and the organisation of their public authorities at national, regional and local levels’

      In Scotland an ambitious land reform strategy is taking shape

      ‘Land for housing and development – We want to reduce constraints to redeveloping vacant and derelict land for housing and other productive uses, improve land supply for housing and stimulate a more active approach to developing land in the public interest.

      Land ownership – The Land Commission will examine the impacts of scale and concentration of land ownership and tax policy, as well as reviewing the effectiveness of the Community Right to Buy mechanisms.

      Land Use Decision-making – The Land Commission will seek to improve the quality and accountability of decision making, providing guidance where necessary.

      Agricultural Holdings – We want to increase access to land for those who want to farm, improve the relationships between landowners and tenant farmers and stimulate the tenant farming sector.
      The Scottish Land Commission will support this work by engaging with as many people and organisations as possible, carrying out research, gathering evidence and creating guidance and codes’

      Scotland- sounds like and behaves like an independent nation at home and on the international stage. Economic, environmental and social justice are the building blocks of a better future.

      Meanwhile in the delusional detached world of UKOK –

      There are no unemployed people, austerity isn’t killing anyone, core homelessness isn’t a thing, destitution and the working poor can’t possibly exist, state services and welfare infrastructures are not collapsing, we are not funding murderous regimes to bomb innocent civilians , our policies can’t possibly interconnect to magnify our incompetencies, Brexit won’t be catastrophic. We don’t recognise any of this, we can’t see or hear about it from our cosy voting chamber.

    246. Highland Wifie says:

      Thanks for link @geeo about A Neil.

      Given that I’d never read his Twitter feed before, I took the opportunity to read more than the bit referred to in the blog. Even without that massive gaffe (which he didn’t even acknowledge, dismissing this well informed commentator as untrustworthy) the man is an ego on legs.
      What an arrogant ‘tit’ right enough.

    247. geeo says:

      Nothing is more desperate than yoon desperation.

      They are utterly seething tonight…haha.

    248. geeo says:

      @ Highland wife, i do not do twitter either.

      Horrendously bad set up. #whattheactualfuck!

    249. heedtracker says:

      They are utterly seething tonight…haha.

      Tory twats were and are praying for the EU to collapse. Now its the Germans. Is there anything tory twats can’t try to ruin?

      Its probably one of the most repellent things beeb gimps have done to date, outside endless monstering Scottish democracy, destroyed the EU in the UK for decades, 100% BBC boost for EU fascists Farage, the Dutch nutcase, Le Pen, Austria’s neo nazis, the maniacs running Spain… although their most effective shyste has been making Farage a UK household name.

      English or UK media is like a boil on the arse of humanity, its probably not a coincidence they look like it too.

    250. Highland Wifie says:

      Lol. You said it!

    251. Glamaig says:

      heedtracker says:
      21 November, 2017 at 9:51 pm

      100% BBC boost for EU fascists Farage, the Dutch nutcase, Le Pen, Austria’s neo nazis, the maniacs running Spain…

      Google BBC news – top story flagged up is a pic of Hitler and ‘Canterbury grammar school to hold Mein Kampf debates’

    252. heedtracker says:

      What Graun britnat tories call journalism. If you’re a The Guardian tory, who do you get on to talk about Scottish democracy? a SLabour Britnat and a ferocious yoon tory ligger.

      With Jon Henley to discuss all this and more are the Guardian’s Scotland correspondent, Libby Brooks, and Catherine Stihler, a Scottish Labour MEP.

      It may still be inevitable, but the relatively poor performance of the Scottish National party in June’s snap elections – it took 38 of Scotland’s 59 seats in Westminster, after winning 56 of them just two years earlier – seems to have made it somewhat less imminent”

      How progressive and liberal, of the greatest hypocrites in Britnat journalism, in its Scotland region.

    253. Dan Huil says:

      It is amusing to see British nationalists like Neil grasping at straws like the supposed German difficulties leading to easier brexit talks for britnats.

      It’s all beginning to fall to britnat bits with these eejits in the middle of the mess looking up to the skies for divine intervention.

      God or German politics, are nae aboot tae save them. The end of the so-called united kingdom is nigh. Woe woe, and thrice woe! [For British nationalists that is].

      For the rest of us it’s rejoice rejoice rejoice!

    254. Hamish100 says:


      good luck for the next 620 years

      Ehhhh – even the dux du edimbourg isn’t that old

      Whats your point do nothing?

      Dont answer you are a greetin negative unionist

    255. Jockanese Wind Talker says:


      Led by Donkeys indeed (and another tick in the Indy vs Brexit box for Soft No’s).

      “MPs have voted against a Labour bid to retain EU human rights measures in UK law post-Brexit”

      “Civic organisations warned over the weekend that individual rights to privacy, equality, freedom of expression, fair working conditions, a fair trial, access to a lawyer and the protection of personal data are all in potential jeopardy if the charter is stripped from the UK state book after Brexit, in March 2019.”

    256. Rock says:


      “Whats your point do nothing?”

      If Nicola had done something other than wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen, and allowing the unionists to re-group – Scotland would have been on the verge of independence now.

      Instead of the SNP losing much ground in the “snap” election (14% vote share, 22 MPs and half a million votes), leaving Nicola dithering and speechless for three weeks before putting independence referendum legislation on hold.

      My point is simply boasting about your pretendy “sovereignty” and non existent powers of the Scottish parliament will not make Scotland independent for at least another 620 years.

      Only by accepting the fact that Scotland has been a colony of England in all but name for the last 310 years can we do something about it – like what all the colonies did.

      Unlike clueless pompous armchair pundits like yourself, I am not blind to the glaring reality in front of my eyes.

    257. Pentland Firth says:

      Andrew Neil doesn’t understand the German language or German politics. All parties, with the exception of AfD, have an agreed position on Brexit. Even if Merkel does fall, and I wouldn’t put money on it, the German government’s approach won’t change.

      British Nationalists are obsessed with WW2, and their hopes for Brexit are scarily close to the fantasies of a certain Reich’s Chancellor who believed that the death of FDR would result in the collapse of the Alliance between the USA, UK, and the Soviet Union. Clutching at straws. It would be pathetic, if it wasn’t so serious for the future of Scotland.

    258. geeo says:

      @JWT above.

      Joanne Cherry spoke brilliantly in that amendment debate.

      The quality of people soon to be running an indy Scotland is going to be awesome!

    259. David Caledonia says:

      Wings over Scotland, what is happening to you, so much claptrap being written that you are becoming just another boring forum for naggers and whingers, we want people who have their own opinions and not people who just keep regurgitating all the stuff we have been reading for years, to all the innovative thinkers, good on you, to the rest , for goodness sake go somewhere else, a brain can only take so much meaningless drivel

    260. heedtracker says:

      “Civic organisations warned over the weekend that individual rights to privacy, equality, freedom of expression, fair working conditions, a fair trial, access to a lawyer and the protection of personal data are all in potential jeopardy if the charter is stripped from the UK state book after Brexit, in March 2019.”

      First thing tories are going to do is scrap work rights like holiday pay, paternity leave, minimum wage, or turn their yew kay into a “gig” economy. Its what freedom from the EU is all about. Tory meeja gimps have been bashing on about how unproductive workers we really are. Fair enough, tory gimp solution, slash pay, longer work days, less breaks.

      C4 news tory liggers were in Wales this evening explaining how terrible the Welsh worker really is, not the English one, the Welsh one. Because the London worker produces about £15k a year more than the Welsh one. Is there are productivity rating for your average plumby tory media gimp? Jon Snow didnt ask.

      Its going to be great though, for UKOK slave wage businesses, as the dole gets slashed.

    261. geeo says:

      Anyone know who Rock is trying to convince with his copy/paste “jackie Baillie” gish ?

      Other than himself, clearly.

      Desperate stuff from a desperate yoon.

    262. heedtracker says:

      David Caledonia says:
      21 November, 2017 at 10:44 pm
      Wings over Scotland, what is happening to you, so much claptrap being written that you are becoming just another boring forum for naggers and whingers, we want people who have their own opinions and not people who just keep regurgitating all the stuff we have been reading for years, to all the innovative thinkers, good on you, to the rest , for goodness sake go somewhere else, a brain can only take so much meaningless drivel”

      Well come on then, thrill us with innovation thoughts n shit.

    263. Ken500 says:

      Fargue, now a failed DJ and La Pen etc are finished. It did not go exactly to plan. Neither is Brexit. Going by the rating the Tories to fail again. The back stabbing has already begun. In every Unionist Party. Labour unionists keep on abstaining. They do not want the poison chalice. Just a case of when the great Brexit failed plan tumbles and falls taking all the Tories and unionists with it. Couldn’t put the dumpties together again.

      They are cling on for dear life with the Brexit cliff approaching. Desperately pleading for the EU to do something to soften the fall. Hardly likely with the unionists on the ropes. Staggering about without any direction before they go. What a mess. Could they make a bigger mess. Please no. The EU will just dump them in it. A mess of their own making.

      Scotland will go to create a better, more equal, prosperous society. It is already happening, England/DUP in splendid isolation. No one else to blame. Happy days. What a bunch of complete, ignorant unionists. Set up to fail. It is just unbelieveable how they are carrying on. Anyone who opposes Scottish Independence is gone within two years. Cameron, Brown, Clegg. Now fiddling the books. Not a good career move. The poisoned chalice who wants to pick it up. How long will Leonard last. Another non nonentity. with nothing to say, without getting overruled. The branch manager. Worse than Rennie. If that’s possible. Indigestion. Who’s pulling the strings will need a tablet.

      It’s reported 34Million have mental health problem. Half the population. No wonder with this lot on the go. Having to observe this circus. Even from a far.

    264. heedtracker says:

      Desperate stuff from a desperate yoon.

      He’s a pretty slick troll though, endlessly monstering YESers and certainly never praising or even mentioning or discussing anything the SNP might be doing, SNP policies, SNP planning etc. that could actually be working and could be good for Scotland.

      That’s rule one of the troll handbook, isn’t it Rock, never praise anything SNP, ever.

    265. Ken500 says:

      Neil told someone they didn’t understand German politics, The person was German. Lived in Germany and was a member of a German politic party. Obviously knew much more than Neil. Neil was just insulting. Neil doesn’t even understand anything about Scottish politucs, economic, society or history but supported Thatcher when she was ruining the economy. Overpayed prima donna. Gets his comuppance on twitter.

      The broadcasts of the time and since were dire. The usual insulting remarks about the Scottish economy etc. Thatcher was illegally and secretly taking the Oil & Gas revenues. Keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act. Totally running down the Scottish economy and cutting the budget. Leaving parts of Scotland in dire poverty.

      Hammond’s budget will probably finish them off. Everyone is just waiting for them to go.

    266. Another Union Dividend says:

      O/T but more on the rise of Union Jacks on everything.

      Long letter in The National to-day from reader who objected to Union Flag on DVLA drivers licence but got nowhere when complaining.

      Northern Ireland was excluded from the policy by the Driver and Vehicle Agency NI (DVA) because of “particular sensitivities surrounding [national] symbols” in the country.

      Are the DVLA really telling Scots we need to resort to violence in order to get the Saltire on our driver’s licence?

      Is there any firm producing suitable sized Saltire stickers to cover up the Butcher’s Apron?

    267. Petra says:

      Snippets from some interesting articles in the National: …..

      ‘Growth Report’s Indy Case to be unveiled in 2018.’

      “The First Minister is preparing to publish a (100 page) key document (in the New Year) setting out a fresh case for Independence, as expectation grows of a referendum before 2021…..

      Sets out the economic strategy (proposed by the Growth Commission) for building a prosperous independent Scotland…

      It’s divided into three sections with one dedicated to fiscal policy, a second to inclusive growth and a third to currency……


      ‘Scots patients are the first (in the World) to use prototype ‘100 MRIs in one scanner.’

      A team of researchers at the University of Aberdeen have scanned the first set of patients with their prototype Fast Field Cycling MRI scanner ……..


      ‘Scots expert’s warning on Zimbabwe peace.’

      ‘There is “massive potential for violence” if Robert Mugabe’s former deputy Emmerson Mnangagwa takes control of the country, an expert claims.

      Early this year Dr Hazel Cameron of St Andrews University published a landmark study into the horrors of the Gukurahundi massacres of the 1980’s which was carried out by Mugabe’s army on the Ndebele people. Victims were burned alive, mass rapes were carried out and forced starvation was used, with Cameron’s work proving that the UK Government knew the full extent of the state-sanctioned atrocities but took part in a “conspiracy of silence.”

      Mnangagwa is said to have orchestrated the attacks ….

      Cameron cautioned that Mnangagwa’s track record makes him “as much a despot as Mugabwe.” “He was the architect of Gukurahundi, he is accused of election rigging and corruption and has been implicated in looting diamonds in the Congo. For the past three years Britain has had a new policy of re-engagement with Zimbabwe. Emmerson Mnangagwa has been central to that.” ……

    268. Jock McDonnell says:

      @Another Union Dividend

      Not a great message, is it ?

    269. Ken500 says:

      Get Rock a pair of rose coloured glasses. Can’t see what’s happening before their eyes. Better still an eye covering, and a spell in a darken room, to get over the trauma of what’s going on. An IndyRef coming soon. All the preparation going on in the background. Everything falling into place.

      Rock can’t stand the anticipation of the Tory fall from grace. What to do? What to do? The hustle. The following announcement. May is no longer around. Another GE. A landslide SNP victory. Another IndyRef which will be won. The unionists so deflated and exhausted. Capitulation. Funny how they cling on and can’t stand on their own two feet. They just keeping on hanging on. Give them enough rope.

    270. CaGeyBee says:

      @Another union Dividend

      Yes the bonny badge company do some but I was told when hiring a car that if the police stop you they can charge you with defacing the licence

    271. crazycat says:

      @ Another Union Dividend

      That’s where I got mine (though I don’t yet need one for my driving licence). They also do lots of splendid badges and are wonderful people.

    272. crazycat says:

      @ CaGeyBee

      Sorry – I couldn’t see your comment when I posted mine (I did refresh the page). Better two than none, though.

    273. Cactus says:

      Okay, it’s waaaaay past the watershed.

      The tories new campaign.

      “Fucked Together!”


    274. CaGey Bee says:

      @ crazycat
      No need to worry like you say better more than none

    275. Aonghus says:

      Is the Conservatives’ reference to ‘national grievance’ something to do with brexit?

      or: is that phrase instead referencing something different called ‘imaginary national grievance, from an independent sovereign UK state that above all things wants to suppress its satellite nations’ ambitions’?

    276. Petra says:

      Oh well I see that another of my posts has disappeared into oblivion. No links, no swear words, no tractor words, no nastiness, not long, etc, whilst the Unionist cut and paste merchant on here doesn’t seem to have any problems at all gaining access. The last article also saturated with non-sensible (‘s) guff.

      If this gets through just to let you know, from the National, that Nicola Sturgeon is going to publish a 100 page document in the New Year setting out a fresh economic case for independence, as expectation grows of a referendum before 2021.

      Covers fiscal policy, inclusive growth and currency.

    277. Chick McGregor says:

      ““If Cameron had not signed it Alex would have held it anyway.”

      Totally unproven statement after the event.”

      Need I remind you Alex Salmond actually announced the referendum would be held one week after the 2011 victory.

      Furthermore, he said at the time that as it would be a consultative referendum then it would be lawful.

      More recently referendum and devolution experts like Prof. Ailsa Henderson have stated categorically that a new consultative referendum could be held without a section 30 order.

      Furthermore2,in regards to the Edinburgh Agreement, despite its use of legalese, analysis of it by legal experts reveals that it has no legal standing i.e. nothing which could be put before the courts were either side to default.
      In other words it was just a glorified memorandum of intent which conferred no powers to the Scottish parliament and no legal obligations to either side.

    278. boris says:

      I am still establishing links between Prof MifSud, George Papadopoulos,INTO, and other organizations involved in the further education of foreign students. It is a multi million £ business and clearly attracts all sorts

    279. @Davidcaladonut

      The whole yoon multi million £ professional army of bots and trolls and astroturfers and fakers and puppets and hacks and shills and plants and stooges and a dozen other types of paid social media stains,

      are blown out the water every day by 1 man with a blog,

      with an amazing support that grows every time you yoons try to censure/condemn and assault WOS.

    280. Chick McGregor says:

      @Scot Finlayson
      Dinna forget the closet Us, they’re the maist fun.

      Ach ye said ‘plants’ that micht cover them Ah suppose.

      Except o coorse plants hae a higher IQ.

    281. Still Positive says:

      Still reeling that the WM Govt voted against animals being sentient beings.

      I am not a great animal lover but I would do them no harm.

      Like the FM and one of my sons (M) I am scared of dogs but my youngest son has a Staffie who is the most gentle of dogs and has genially put up with depredations his 2 older children have inflicted on him.

      Last weekend the daughter of son (M) had a sleepover with her cousins and the dug and was perfectly happy.

      Buster is, without a doubt. a sentient being.

    282. Liz g says:

      Still Positive @ 2.11
      I am deeply suspicions of the agenda behind these headlines..
      While it is noteworthy that’s credible this lot in Westminster would do this!!
      It doesn’t square with other “reports” of legislation RE. Assistance Dog’s in particular.
      (I am trying to caveat everything cause -a. I can’t do links & b. I’m not the Rev but)
      This is very much looking like …a distraction..
      If true we have a legal mess….while its “not” impossible that this government would try to leave it to the Courts to decide if one (pet ) dog ….is more guilty than another (assistance) dog in a confrontation… Wouldnt the Law Lords have to point out…they could be undermining legislation if neither animal has the Legal acknowledgement of being a sentient being. ??

      But what aboot the protection of the Bird’s…. Are they “Really” handing a potential “Defence” to anyone hurting them?
      Or bat’s…. Whom I also think are protected?
      Swan’s…. That Only the Queen can Kill….the list goes on…

      While as an ex puppy walker for guide dog’s and the owner of many other’s (never having bought or breed a dog in my life which I point out only in the interest of demonstrating that I have not now or ever had any financial interest in Dogs.
      And not in judgement)
      I can speak only for Dog’s as sentient beings,there are not many right minded people who will not be outraged by this…and at a time of the Media’s choosing.
      Also not many who won’t give time and attention to “making” Westminster back down over it!!

      And there in lies the TAIL…it would cost Westminster nothing to capitulate on this…taking care of Brexit.. and mair tae the point Holyrood while responding to the BIG issue of the day…..A Nation Of Animal Lover’s… wants and need’s!

      As always Still Positive… We have to stand against this as best we can, nobody with any honor could do a anything else..while we are in this bloody Union, although I still feel that it is very much a clever distraction ..

      But when we are out it!!!
      We can quite rightly claim!!!
      Holyrood wouldn’t dare do this to the animals…and that’s because they would be exactly where a government should be…
      Within …Slapping… Distance…

      And by the way….Staffies are lovely family dog’s.. I totally agree..any owner just need’s to pay a wee bit of attention to how they interact with other dog’s and they will be a pleasure for an…”active”( be honest ) family to own.

    283. Cactus says:

      Autumn Donkey Budget day… yipee!

      Hammond is an ass.

      EE AW!

    284. Ken500 says:

      Westminster are just a bunch of criminals breaking every law that they make. Just a public disgrace. Tax evading and wasting public money at every opportunity. The waste of public money is an international disgrace. Wasting £Trns to ruin the world economy. Most of them should be put in jail. They break the Law with impunity and try and hide it under the Offical Secrets Act. Breaking the Law again. The reason they want out of the EU is to continue to tax evade and line their own pockets with misappropriated public money.

      Neil is just a blantant liar. He is so biased he could fall over. An alcoholic. A danger to good govanance. Spouting public nonsense. An overpaid prima donna. The lies being told about Germany are just extraordinary. A switch off. The BBC £3.7Billion for nonsense. Most of the reporters can’t do five to ten minutes of basic research. Common knowledge. Biased beyond doubt. A switch off. Germany has one of the most successful economy in the world. Totally in surplus. Major assets. The UK with £Trns of Westminster debt is not. Neil does not include that basic fact. Factually deficit. Beyond belief.

      Any politician against Scottish Independence lasts on average two years. Then they are gone. Who wants the poison chalice. Except in Scotland because they corrupted the electoral system. They are still held in total contempt.

    285. Petra says:

      Hellish or what? They wonder why we want out of this Union?

      ”MPs have voted to reject the inclusion of animal sentience – the admission that animals feel emotion and pain – into the EU Withdrawal Bill….”


      STV News: Police Scotland and Fire Services VAT will not be backdated.

      Who informed them of that?

    286. Dorothy Devine says:

      Still Positive and all others expressing disgust and outrage over that vote , perhaps we should engage the Supervet , Noel Fitzpatrick and his fantastic team to challenge .

      Though I think Liz is correct – like throwing a titbit in the air for a hungry four legged friend, it is merely a distraction.

    287. Petra says:

      Now we’re talking!

      ‘Growth Commission to unveil economic blueprint for prosperity in independent Scotland.’

      ‘THE First Minister is preparing to publish a key (100 page) document setting out a fresh economic case for independence, as expectation grows of a referendum before 2021.

      Nicola Sturgeon told 500 guests at an SNP fundraising event in Glasgow that she would be unveiling the party’s Growth Commission report in the new year….

      Covers fiscal policy, inclusive growth and currency….’

    288. Petra says:

      I’ve been thinking a great deal about the Queen recently. Does she have nought to say about anything at all? Not bothered about the Scots? That the VOW was broken? About EVEL? About Brexit? A hard border in Ireland? That her beloved Corgis seemingly don’t feel pain? She didn’t remain neutral when we wanted our Independence, so what’s the score?

      ‘EU protocol on animal sentience.’

    289. Petra says:

      MAIR OIL!

      ‘Reported in Energy Voice only two hours ago, the first oil flowed from the Dana Petroleum-owned £1.5billion ($2billion) Western Isles development on 15th November. The fields it draws the oil from are called Harris and Barra (!). It’s expected to produce 44 000 barrels per day or at today’s prices, around $2 700 000 worth of oil. With costs around £15 per barrel that’s profits of around $66 000 per day. Tax!’….


      ‘According to Oil & Gas People today, Premier Oil’s Catcher field off Aberdeen starts production any day now and is expected to: ‘generate significant amounts of cash next year.’

    290. Breeks says:

      I don’t care that the clowns are vile and evil enough to declare that animals are not sentient beings. But what worries me is what it means.

      What are the ramifications for pest control, fox hunting, and wild animal “management” like the culling of badgers or boar? Open season???

      What are the ramifications for food production? Are we back to battery hens for egg production and bald featherless chickens reared too weak to stand up? Veal calves in crates? Geese force fed for fois Gras?

      If an animal is not a sentient being, does that strengthen the hand of vivisectionists? Are cosmetics free to test their products on animals? Can you pump any non-sentient animal with as many antibiotics, growth hormones and steroids as you can until it passes out?

      What about nature reserves? What protection for wildlife can survive animals being declared non-sentient? Does this give Gamekeepers the right to use all the vile and evil traps and killing methods of the last century?

      Are we back to the days of persecuting otters, heron, raptors, foxes, and all the other critters we drove to extinction?

      This Westminster Government truly makes my stomach churn. They are sick in the head. If only Westminster had a few more sentient politicians… Let’s see how they fly when driven into a line of shotguns for the sport of it.

    291. starlaw says:


      My sentiments exactly, don’t let the Tories of the hook with this one. How long until this behaviour crept into humans, its but a short, step starting with the weakest members of society then deciding to be rid of a race, colour, or creed.
      People who think this way would have been perfectly at home in 1930’s Germany. Don’t let them off the hook.

    292. Breeks says:

      Excellent news!

      Another damning report about Scottish Borders Council in the National. Obviously the SBC Cover up Squad is not as efficient as it used to be.

      They should just burn the rotten Council Offices to the ground and start all over again. Or does that sound too extreme?

      Maybe just put bars on all the doors and windows, and save us all a load of time and money…. Don’t worry! It’s not cruel. Westminster says animals aren’t sentient beings, so presumably this applies to the pond life in SBC.

      Do I sound bitter? Good.

    293. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      “1930s Germany”

      Or preesent day China.

    294. Les Wilson says:

      Breeks says:

      I agree entirely, I posted on this before but no one took it up, surprisingly!

      As an animal over who has had a number of dogs over many years
      and currently have 2 small ones, I am in a position to say what this “law” is, it is a totally disgusting position to take,and shame on those who voted for it.

      I have always hated Tory governments, however I hate this one with a growing passion, they are the most degenerate bunch of creeps this country has ever had. I cannot say enough bad about them.That was before this appalling law, now I am furious.

    295. Liz g says:

      Petra @ 7.02
      That’s no fair….if yon wee Wummin can greet aboot a boat!!
      Then she surely his ..a heart…a brain..a wee bit o courage?
      Or well at the very least a qualification to rule a Country..

      Oops sorry Robert…and the U.N.
      Two Kingdoms,A Provence & A. Principality.

      Can she no demonstrate to us….any reason…why She gets to sign OUR law’s…….answer Madam.. from where do you claim Our Permission.

      Queen Anne’s Treaty per chance?
      Then Honour it….or Disavow it..
      Serve as The Queen of Scots….or acknowledge you broke your vow to God.

      Convince the Scots you are the Right monarch for them before they replace you…as is their right…..

      How should I put it…. your whole life … whither it be long or short….well for us Scots and yer Government…let me tell ya, it’s been pretty fecken long….

      You dedicated yer life to the service of yer people!!
      Well Madam we are right here and we’re waiting !!
      Wan day soon and it will need tae be right soon,, so do get on way the day job!!! Because as the story goes there are ..actually …mair than A Hundred of us…

    296. Dorothy Devine says:

      Could someone enlighten me as to the person writing drivel in the Independent is – one Luke Graham?

      I understand he is part of the orange order Tory party of Scotland but he seems to have the memory of a goldfish – dementia tax , rape clause , bedroom tax and deaths due to “new ” welfare reforms all seem to have escaped the wee souls notice.

      As for any mitigation of the bedroom tax , new mega hospitals and fantastic bridges NOT funded by thieves and vagabonds – forget it.

      Is he a child?

    297. Dorothy Devine says:

      With regard to the politicisation of the Poppy , are they hoping that we have such short memories that by next October/November we will have erased the memory of this “benefit’ from Westminster?

      Is the Poppy appeal capable of taking a hit?

    298. Nana says:

      Poor mums are being denied free milk for their babies under new benefit Universal Credit

      Here’s our ‘last chance’ letter to David Davis and Phillip Hammond. Release the Secret Brexit Studies within 14 days or we’ll sue

      It’s difficult to even comprehend that this Government could be so detestable as to have voted that animals cannot feel emotions or pain

    299. liz g says:

      Breeks @ 7.48
      What it means,my friend is that Westminster has given the whole Island a cause to unite behind.
      It will cost them nothing to give in to what ever campaign tries to reverse this.
      This .. tactic … it’s “The Prince” 101.

      Ofcourse we should join with the southern counties to reverse this terrible decision…but we must also remember that Wales & England will also hate it….and only they have the voting power to do anything about it!!
      It is not going to happen because the MSM will mount a campaign to distract…and then win…”pet” safety..
      This is a Brexit distraction….

      This has little to do with Scotland…as per usual.. when we are in we are out voted anyway….When we leave Holyrood will not dare… because if they tried it…we can get rid of them!

      It is not real…… Except in the sense that if we stay we can’t stop them…we would need to hope that the majority of England would….but the English electorate are being played too!!

    300. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      ” As the UK is intent on leaving the single market and the customs union, there is no future trade deal that will in itself avoid customs checks, inspections and controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

      There has to be a unique deal that covers Northern Ireland. “

      The UK’s approach to Ireland during Brexit is at best negligent and at worse downright criminal.

      May has made it clear she wants a hard Brexit, the only debate is how hard. With the UK out of single market and customs union with Ireland and an intention to deregulate, an open border cannot exist. To suggest otherwise is deceit. Truth probably is, the London centric Brexiteers don’t care about Ireland.

      It’s an oft repeatedly tale in Irish history, London wreaks havoc in Ireland but doesn’t want to take responsibility and deal with the mess it makes.

      The simple solutions are a) keeping NI in customs union and having customs on entry to Britain, or b) the EU, London, and Dublin jointly working towards Irish reunification.

      If Brexit does look hard, Scotland will hold IndyRef2 and the present political configuration on these islands is liable to be dramatically changed anyway.

    301. TheWasp says:

      OorKez being discussed on matthew Wright now

    302. fionan says:

      Les Wilson @ 1.42pm
      You are so right. The brains of all mammals have the very same structures which are involved in the production of emotions – fear, joy, horror, disgust etc, and the same mechansims by which pain is detected, transmitted to the brain, and processed in the brain.

      These are all ancient brain structures, the fact that they have been retained throughout evolution testifies to their importance in the survival game. Emotions serve a survival, fitness and fecundity purpose – See the late Jak Panksepp, ‘The Emotional Brain’.

      There is no doubt whatsoever that animals feel the same emotions that we do, the same pain, the same terror. The tories and the red tories too, have clearly shown they have no regard for the rights of humans, no compassion for their fellow man, so it is very easy for them now to remove even the paltry welfare protection that has been given to animals. And it should serve as a warning that we, our welfare protections and rights, are next!

    303. Ken500 says:

      The way to stop ‘them’ is to just keep on voting SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. To protect Scottish assets, economy and services, That is the way to stop it (them). There is nothing they can do about it. That is what a majority are doing. That is stopping them. Scotland is already going in another better direction, Scotland’s voice is being heard. Not just in the UK in the EU but Internationally. Stand up to the abuse. Just as the SNP Gov is standing up for Scotland. After years of unlawful abuse.

      Just keep,on voting SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get everyone you know to do the same. It’s simple really.. That will stop them. The only way they get away with it is if people vote for them. Or do not vote. They are already really unpopular in Scotland.

      Wings is doing an excellent job. So are other people. A brilliant job. Scotland is different now. Going in the right direction. With a Gov that cares. People should keep the faith. Keep confident and keep going on the right path. it is not about nationalism for many people Never has been. It is about right and wrong. Equality, justice and prosperity. Sadly lacking in the Westminster Government. Years of corruption. Since 1928 and before, To stop them do not vote for them and tell everyone else not well.

      Having to watch the mess from a far can be exhausting. What a mess of governance. They could not make a bigger mess. The unionists outright evil. Fighting like rats in a sack. While the economy falls. There will come a tipping point when they can go on no longer. Not feasible. Just wait and be prepared for it.

      The people in Moray will get what they voted for. All their services cut by Tories not putting up the Council tax for the wealthiest after 9 years. Damaging the local economy. They will not be best pleased. Imagine the backlash.

    304. Jim says:

      If only we had a decent opposition at Westminster apart from the SNP because we know they are pretty powerless there and outvoted at every turn.

      Unfortunately, the Labour party died at the same time as John Smith replaced with Tony Blair’s Labour who were just Tory wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    305. fionan says:

      and for those who dont care about the tory removal of animal welfare protection, since ‘we are not a nation of animal lovers’, bear in mind that we are ALL animals, we all bleed and suffer alike, and COMPASSION costs nothing!

    306. Petra says:

      @ Breeks says at 7:48 am … ”I don’t care that the clowns are vile and evil enough to declare that animals are not sentient beings. But what worries me is what it means. What are the ramifications …”

      Excellent post Breeks and spot on. Just when you thought that it couldn’t get any worse you have to ask yourself now what will the long term (or even short term) ‘ramifications’ be for us all, being ruled by people with such a mindset? And by God it’s absolutely terrifying to think that there’s so many of them.


      @ Liz g says at 8:23 am … ”Petra … That’s no fair….if yon wee Wummin can greet aboot a boat!! Then she surely his ..a heart…a brain..a wee bit o courage? Or well at the very least a qualification to rule a Country.. Oops sorry Robert…and the U.N. Two Kingdoms, A Provence & A. Principality. Can she no demonstrate to us….any reason…why She gets to sign OUR law’s…….answer Madam. from where do you claim Our Permission. Queen Anne’s Treaty per chance? Then Honour it….or Disavow it.. Serve as The Queen of Scots….or acknowledge you broke your vow to God. Convince the Scots you are the Right monarch for them before they replace you…as is their right….. How should I put it…. your whole life … whither it be long or short….well for us Scots and yer Government…let me tell ya, it’s been pretty fecken long…. You dedicated yer life to the service of yer people!! Well Madam we are right here and we’re waiting !! Wan day soon and it will need tae be right soon,, so do get on way the day job!!! Because as the story goes there are ..actually …mair than A Hundred of us…”

      Ha, ha, ha. Thanks for the laugh Liz and of course you point out the serious side to it all. What’s the wee wummin doing for her money, FGS? She’s supposed to be Queen of the Scots but has watched her Government rob us blind (to line her pockets as an example) and treat the Scots with utter contempt. Why does she bother coming to open the Scottish Parliament? What’s that all about? I could save her time and a journey by getting my auntie May to do it for nothing, as she’s no materialistic at all and lives a stones throw away from the building. My auntie May also greets at the drop of a hat and that’s the kind of ‘visitor’ to Holyrood that we’re looking for, lol. In saying that I can see us doling out the paper hankies to Queenie, hand over fist, when she loses a number of ‘residencies’ in Scotland and some of her pocket money.

    307. Meg merrilees says:

      Breeks you are spot on – if animals are not sentient then we can raise them in appalling conditions and yes it means a return to the worst sort of battery hen production, foie gras and crate-fed veal.- Why?

      Because that way, post-Brexit, we can trade with the USA, and other greedy countries that put profit before anything else e.g. fracking also springs to mind.

      As Ghandi said – you can learn a lot about a nation by looking at their animal welfare standards… only, his quote was much more poetic!

    308. mike cassidy says:

      With apologies to Nana –

      I’ve archived the link to the story about Andrew Neil having his testicles turned into a pair of roast chestnuts.

      Great start to the day!

    309. Petra says:

      @ Nana ….

      Nana if the five million plus Scots had access to the links that you’ve posted today we’d be Independent in a heartbeat. It’s an absolute disgrace that the MSM in this country are concealing the truth from the populace. They’re just lucky that we’re not a bunch of barbarians because if so they would have been strung up long before now.

      Once again thanks a million for taking the time to do such an amazing job.

    310. Chick McGregor says:

      Breeks & Liz
      Perhaps they plan to follow Trump who last week lifted the ban on importing elephant trophies to the States?

    311. Al Dossary says:

      Call me cynical, but the “non sentient, incapable of emotions or pain” is designed to facilitate a change to the Fox Hunting laws. This law alone means more to the Tory bastards than the 120k deaths they are responsible for with their benefit cuts.

      I would argue that none of these Tory bastards should be regarded as sentient.

      It is not without reason the ‘wily fox’ gained it’s reputation.

      Likewise, be in my home to see the sheer delight and affection of my wife’s dog when any of us get home after a few months away. If the fact that she remembers me after my absence of as much as 9 months at a time is evidence enough of sentience.

      Basically I have to spend around 30 mins of a little Staffy bitch fussing like crazy over my return.

    312. Les Wilson says:

      I do not think this has been commented on as yet.

      “Ministers have sought to see off a potential rebellion by Conservative MPs that could have brought a first defeat over the EU withdrawal bill by partially backing down on the future status of EU human rights measures in UK law.
      Following another day of debate about the bill, which seeks to transpose EU statute into UK law post-Brexit, the government faced possible defeat over amendments intended to maintain the scope of the EU charter on fundamental rights”

      The word partially could mean anything, never trust the Tories, and I certainly think the EU knows that well!

    313. Ottomanboi says:

      It’s all in the way they say it….
      Robinson..Today prog.
      The weather, it will be mild in England & Wales, colder elsewhere.
      Know your place!

    314. admiral says:

      The papers seem to think today’s budget will remove the VAT charge from Police Scotland and Fire and Rescue, so;e;y because of Scottish Tory MPs pressure.

      Another example of Westminster’s attitude to Scotland, in that it would knowingly and intentionally deprive the emergency services, and by extension everyone who lives in Scotland, of much-needed funding purely out of political spite.

    315. Chick McGregor says:


      The difference in average annual low altitude air temperature between Scotland and England is only about 1.75 degrees C but you would never think that if you went by BBC weather maps.

      In Summer, the difference is a bit more but in Winter there is very little difference North to South in the UK.

    316. galamcennalath says:

      Chick McGregor says:

      if you went by BBC weather maps

      …. you’d have difficulty finding shrunken Scotland! 😉

    317. John H. says:

      Andrew Neil – Ich bin ein dumpling.

    318. Robert Graham says:

      o/t _ But good for a laugh visit Chunkymark on U/tube , his daily rants are usually entertaining , and sometimes when he calms down you get a good interview with interesting people,
      His latest with Bernadette Devlin is worth a watch, she was asked her opinion on our Mhairi Black, she gives a good appraisal of her , and questions how long she can hold her tongue and acutely stay with the SNP ,
      Bernadette then goes on to highlight the difficulties the SNP are and will have mitigating Tory cuts because they faced the same problems and asks are the SNP brave enough to say STOP we are not going to continue to administer policies that harm people’s welfare.
      It’s a short clip but she never misses the point , a good speaker.

    319. mike cassidy says:

      Re Andrew Neil

      He came back at Jon Worth.

      And got swatted down again!

      Check out @jonworth

      Clearly not a fan of the BBC either.

    320. Ken500 says:

      Further north in the east the temperate difference can be 5 degrees but less rainy. Sunnier on average. The rain usually comes from the West. Off the Atlantic. The cold usually comes from the North. Unit price in Scotland should be 10%. Nearer the source but it is colder. Scotland in surplus in fuel and energy being under utilitised for consumer benefits. The Scottish Gov public energy set up. Could bring parity, Not waste profits going south. More reasonable price in Scotland from advances renewables.

    321. Ken500 says:

      Neil is a liar. He blocks anyone who adequately challenges the lies. In denial. Non impartial. So biased to be compromised. Another tax evader funded by public money. Insulting the taxpayers. Then complaining. Switch off.

    322. HandandShrimp says:

      I see that the Beeb have opened comments on police VAT. I rarely participate in HYS these days, it being a silly place, but I see that the resident dozen or so Tory MSPs are pushing Murdo’s line determinedly. 🙂 It isn’t called SpEaK You’re bRaneS for nothing.

    323. galamcennalath says:

      Andrew Neil’s wealth and position relies on his right wing standpoint, his Establishment bias, his denial of any alternative interpretations of events, and perhaps now most of all, being an Scottish Uncle Tam with UK wide exposure.

      Of course he is going to continue with, and defending, his ‘winning formula’ as long as the dosh keeps coming.

      Post Indy, are the English still going to be keen to listen to him and his ilk?

    324. Daisy Walker says:

      Nana, thanks again for al the wonderfully informative links. You are a star.

      Can you or anyone out there point me to information about how Brexit will affect Radiotherapy for Cancer patients. I’ve seen it mentioned in the passing re other Brexit disaster/issues, but don’t know/understand the details.


    325. Ken500 says:


      Increased twitter 2000. 99% laughing at Neil. 1% abusive. Neil?

      10% of German coal use. They are changing ASAP

      Westminster unionists changing to more nuclear. More expensive, dirty and dangerous. A disaster waiting to happen. Not good value for money. There are more cheaper feasible, cleaner aternatives, Renewables. Planting the nuclear waste in Scotland. Then flying it around the world. Without permission. Trident £10Billion a year. It will be going on Brexit. The US did not want it in the UK in the first place. McMillian insisted in dumping it in Scotland secretly and illegally without permission.

      Germany electricity costs higher but higher wages and disposable incomes make it easier to afford it. Germany in surplus, The UK in massive deficit with falling wages and living costs sets rising, Brexit. Now enough tax is raised in the rest of the UK to pay for essential services. Essential services being cut.

    326. galamcennalath says:

      “5 questions for Brexit Britain”

      This article quite rightly points out that the UK really doesn’t manufacture much these day, but is reliant on services. All talk to trade deals involves goods, not services. The ‘Canada style’ deal doesn’t cover services, for instance,

      This aspect gets ignored too much. I believe that’s because the pro Brexit propaganda is always framed in a from they think Joe Public will understand. Thus the focus is on trade in goods and tariff, rather than the important services market.

    327. Ken500 says:

      People who abuse animals, abuse people. There is an established link. Psychopaths.

    328. call me dave says:

      Yaboo sucks says May answering a question about VAT paid to WM re emergency services in Scotland. You’re not getting a refund because we told you so beforehand. 🙂

      Kirstene Hair Scottish Tory (who gets confused about how to vote) asks a Q. Re: broadband being crap in Scotland.

      Mrs May says the WM government making progress in Scotland.

      But giving the local authorities in Scotland money directly is best going forward because the SG is crap!

      etc etc etc!

    329. Famous15 says:

      Who is the MP for Angus.She seems a Tory darling.Another Tory MP says no Indyref2

      They seem to get to speak at the highest viewing time.Toxic Tories.

    330. Nana says:

      Hoping this link works Daisy

      [PDF]Euratom and Brexit – BMA…/pdfs/…/bma-brexit-briefing-euratom-and-brexit.p…

    331. Ken500 says:

      Hammond the next to go?

      Hammond laughed and sneered at the notion of a Scottish Navy at Faslane. At a Westminster committee procedure. Politicians who oppose Scottish Independence last on average two years. The poison chalice. Who will be next? May?

      The Tories illegally taxing the Scottish Oil & Gas sector at 40% have cost Scotland £Billions (2010) and over 120,000 jobs. Tax should be relative to price/accessibility.

    332. Ken500 says:

      Angus. Hair? She abstains in the Brexit vote. The EURef.

      Great video of the launch of the new ferry. Finally being constructed in Scotland. Thanks to the SNP Gov inititive. Another one on the way.

    333. Nana says:

      BiFab workers say thanks Nicola and the Scottish government

      video here

    334. Ken500 says:

      The SNP Gov increased the spend on broadband. They committed extra funds to to extend internet coverage. Areas without comprehensive internet coverage vote unionist. Ignorant.

      Westminster gave the broadband contract £2Billion exclusively to BT. Another commission profit? Donations to the Tories etc. BT were fined constantly for inadequate work/connection, The BT chairman was financing an illegal? subsidy in Italy which lost £2Billion. He did not resign but lost his extravagant bonus.

      Another Westminster broadband muck up. Costing taxpayers £Billions.

    335. Robert Graham says:

      o/t – Listening to one of the recent intake of Tory Scottish MPs asking Mrs Mayhem will the next tranche of funding allocated to the rollout of superfast broadband will it bypass the Scottish government and go directly to proposed projects , this was confirmed by Mrs Mayhem.

      I could be wrong but I believed that this is a reserved matter as is broadcasting , can anyone assist ? , if Mayhems government intends bypassing Holyrood this simple act confirms it is now indeed to if it is not just now a Reserved Issue.

    336. Ken500 says:

      Great BiFab video Thanks

    337. Artyhetty says:

      re: Robert Graham@11.35

      ‘Not going to continue administer policies that harm peoples’ welfare’. Is that an actual joke?!

      Is she talking about the same SNP that we see have been and continue to mitigate Tory horrendous treatment of our most vulnerable? ‘Same problems’? Huh? M.Black, ‘acutely stay with the SNP’?

      The SNP are working for Scotland, not perfect, but god are they holding the fort together while being attacked from all manner of british nationalism.

      If the britnats were in charge at Holyrood Scotland would have continued on a unionists dream scenario of joblessness, drug addiction, crime and sectarianism, all orchestrated by the britnats to keep Scotland poor, and begging with the world looking on saying, oh, poor Scots can’t even organise a piss up in a brewery, just as well they have the London gov to look after them eh.

      Only thing that is correct is that the SNP will need a big magic wand to continue working miracles while shackled to this disgusting, lying, scheming so called union.

      Devolution light at present puts restraints on the Scottish government. Now we have a few scheming lying tory MPs trying to take credit for chucking a few more measly crumbs at Scotland, ie police VAT which they imposed. Scot tories work for T.May and England’s parliament.

      The only ones doing their ‘day job’ are the SNP. People need to share all info on what they are doing for Scotland wide and far, because it certainly is not going to ever be shown on tv screens or in 100% of the daily rags.

      Anyone who thinks the tories are mitigating their own nasty, destructive, murdering policies needs their head examined.

    338. Ken500 says:

      More taxpayers money for the unionist councils to waste. The Scottish Gov can adjust their Council allocations accordingly for fairness, Tories trying to cause more trouble. They will not get away with it but get the backlash. It will not do them any good. Disrespecting the Scottish Gov voted for in Scotland.

    339. geeo says:

      And there you have it ..Scottish tories ‘persuaded’ Hammond to reverse the VAT reclaim block in Scotland…!

      Zzzzz….fooling no one.

    340. geeo says:

      Re VAT.

      Does he not realise that by claiming the Scottish Tories ‘persuaded’ him to allow VAT reclaim, he is ADMITTING that not allowing it previously, was a purely political point scoring exercise ?

    341. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      You are correct, Communications Policy is a reserved area @Robert Graham says at 12:57 pm

      Comments about it bypassing the Scottish government because ‘SNPBaaad’ are just Dog Whistle sound bites.

      If this is the case Scots Govt Budget should deduct the Direct Payment value from Council Budgets the same way Westminster would deduct from Barnett Consequencials.

    342. Macart says:

      @Nana 12.49

      Great link. So happy for those workers at BiFab.

    343. mr thms says:

      The Chancellor says 20 billion barrels of oil remains in the North Sea basin.

      Think about that when he grudgingly exempts Police and Fire services from VAT from next year.

      Think about that when you listen to his spending plans

    344. Ken500 says:

      They haven’t got the debt down it is going up. £49Billion paid in interest payments a year. Exactly the same. They do not raise enough in the rest of the UK to pay for essential services. The Economy is failing. Wages falling and priced rising. Borrowing £100Billion a year in the rest of the UK. £49Billion in interest payments. Scotland has to pay on average £4Billion in interest payments on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Westminster mismanage and misappropriation of revenues costs Scotland £20Billion+ a year.

      Illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud.

      Borrowing and spending £30Billion a year on Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident and Heathrow. All a total waste of money with more feasible, credible, cheaper alternatives. Total mismanagement.

      The Tory slush fund. The British- Chinese consortium. Cameron, Carrington and their associates. Making £Million in consultancies, banking charges and fees. Illegally ripping off the public purse. Funding the Tory Party.

      They have cut NHS £4Billion a year. Education £6Billion a year and payment for the vulnerable £3Billion a year. £13Billion.

    345. admiral says:

      geeo says:
      22 November, 2017 at 1:10 pm
      Re VAT.
      Does he not realise that by claiming the Scottish Tories ‘persuaded’ him to allow VAT reclaim, he is ADMITTING that not allowing it previously, was a purely political point scoring exercise ?

      Exactly. Is he saying that, had the Tories been elected as the Scottish Government, with the exact same policy to merge the police and rescue services, that he would have gone ahead and charged the VAT just the same? Not a chance!

      And if he accepts Tory MPs representations that the tax is not fair, why are the 140 or so self same representations from SNP MPs over the years not acceptable, too.

      Tory spite tax against Scottish people, pure and simple.

    346. admiral says:

      mr thms says:
      22 November, 2017 at 1:20 pm
      The Chancellor says 20 billion barrels of oil remains in the North Sea basin.
      Think about that when he grudgingly exempts Police and Fire services from VAT from next year.
      Think about that when you listen to his spending plans

      How can this be? Didn’t the Yoons screech from the rooftops at the referendum that the oil and gas was all gone? Shurely shome mishtake, Miss Moneypenny!

    347. admiral says:

      Re the Tory spite tax, why did the warnings they gave to the Scottish Government not apply to other public bodies like Academies England and PSNI? They were all given exemption from VAT, despite being set up as “national” services like Police Scotland and Fire and Rescue.

    348. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      100% on the money@geeo says at 1:10 pm

      “Re VAT. Does he not realise that by claiming the Scottish Tories ‘persuaded’ him to allow VAT reclaim, he is ADMITTING that not allowing it previously, was a purely political point scoring exercise ?”

      Shout it loud and share widely folks.

      The Tories deliberately withheld money from Scottish Emergency Services (the same ones that their compliant BritNat Media tell us daily are in crisis and underfunded) out of spite and more importantly BECAUSE THEY COULD

      And as long as Scotland remains shackled to Westminster THEY CAN CONTINUE TO ACT THIS WAY.

    349. mr thms says:

      #admiral @ 1:24 pm

      During the Scottish referendum The Economist had an article about The North Sea with the headline ‘Running on fumes’

    350. call me dave says:

      Is the £2.3bn ( if I heard right) coming North and announced separately include the SNHS percentage that the Barnett formula allocated to any overall Health Service increase announced today?

      ENHS increase was announced separately as was an additional amount to the English Health service this year by Hammond.

      Pressure put on by 13 Tory MPsfor VAT…Aye right! 🙂

    351. Giving Goose says:

      The news that MPs voted to reject the inclusion of animal sentience – the admission that animals feel emotion and pain – into the EU Withdrawal Bill, should not be a surprise.

      Looked at coldly, it’s actually a “de-regulation” of a statute and will be the tip of a very large iceberg.

      You ain’t seen nothing yet.

      Clearly the level playing field that is the EU, is just far to level for certain vested interests. Throwing off the shackles of EU law – deregulation – is required.

      Of course 99% of the population who currently benefit from this regulation are suddenly going to find out the hard way that the EU was actually the protector of people’s rights (including those who voted leave).

      So fox hunting, hare coursing, hunting deer with hounds, persecution of raptors etc will probably see a comeback in the UK.

      But that’s what this is all about; a return to what Thatcher termed Victorian Values but this time with extra blood and guts.

      I know people have joked about children being employed as chimney sweeps like some sort of post apocalyptic Mary Poppins hell, but it might not be that far from the truth.

      Eroding the rights of animals is just a tester of things to come.

      English Nationalism knows no bounds and that is what you are going to see in spade full’s over the coming months. At least the foxes can make a run for it. Spare a thought for those humans not blessed with such mobility.

      De-regulation is the name of the game where Brexit is concerned. It is The core motivator, The point, The reward.

      The losers in this game will be the ordinary people of the UK (and the animals).

    352. geeo says:

      It is official.

      Scottish Police and fire services were FORCED to pat VAT and were NOT ALLOWED to claim a rebate on that VAT because Scots voted for the SNP !!

      THAT is what Hammond just said on live tv !

      And there is 20,000,000,000 brls of oil left…!

    353. Ken500 says:

      £2Billion of Scottish revenues coming back. A con trick. Scotttish tax revenues raised increased £4Billion. From £50Billion to £54Billion. £2Billion short. The Scottish Block Grant reduce 10% a year since 2010. Now £3Bilion a year short. Still £1Billion short.

      Hammond the liar. A few £Million. How long will he last?

      Still £20Billion of mismanagement and misappropriation of Scottish revenue by Westminster.

      Illegal wars, tax evasion and financial frauds.

      The Whisky association to pay £1/2Billion legal fees. Not a smart move from the start. Some Whisky companies tax evade and pay no tax.

    354. Ken500 says:

      Blaming the SNP for Westminster mismanagement. Disrespecting the Scottish Gov elected by voters in Scotland. Will not do the unionists any good. In fact will do the opposite. The backlash. Increased broadband cover will increase support for Independence. Everything is being out in place. Central bank currency issues, discussions with EU Officials for support etc.

    355. Daisy Walker says:

      Thanks Nana – very informative re the Cancer treatments and Brexit.

      Now if I can push my luck – Big Data and Brexit? Anyone the wiser?

    356. stewartb says:

      Listening to the Budget speech, I’m constantly having to look for ‘verbal clues’ as to whether a measure relates to the UK as a whole or just to England or to part of England, or will have or not have a Barnett Consequential.

      It is a muddle – working out what Budget references to the “NHS” actually means for the four different, independent NHS bodies in the UK & NI is impossible based on the speech alone.

      Demonstrably, Westminster is indeed the de facto Parliament of England.

      And then when Corbyn speaks, it is still often unclear about what parts of the UK he is talking about – when the ‘clue’ suggests he might be talking about England only even he sees no need to make such an England-focus explicit when speaking in this English Parliament.

    357. twathater says:

      Just watched politics Scotland , I know , I know , where Davy twitchy haunds wis explaining that the Baaad SNP SG will be given money 1.9 bill to spend but basically only on things that the great wastemonster arseholes deem worthy. When asked by cringe brewer if the 3 billion that the ENHS were getting was Barnetised , twitchy took great delight in telling brewer that the 1.9 billion the SG maybe get will include everything.

      This is the thin edge of the wedge , they are doing the same thing they done with the DUP bribe , we have decided that it is not Barnetised so feck off sweaties.

      Twitchy also stated that any relaxation of public sector pay awards ,e.g. nurses ,police ,firemen will also have to come out of the maybe 1.9 billion

      The glorious tolies aligned with their compliant pals liebour and the beeeeb are really challenging Scots to suck it up

      The only way the SNP SG can win is to stop mitigating all the austerity these bastArds are forcing on us , force the people to face the TRUTH , make them realise just how much these despots despise us and our country

      Make them aware that the ONLY way out of this incompetent clusterfuck of brutish nationalism where only the rich are valued and the poor can die is to become independent

    358. Rock says:

      Chick McGregor:

      “If Cameron had not signed it Alex would have held it anyway.”

      “Totally unproven statement after the event.”

      Chick McGregor:

      “Need I remind you Alex Salmond actually announced the referendum would be held one week after the 2011 victory.”

      Doesn’t matter what Alex Salmond announced.

      The fact remains that he sought an agreement with Cameron.

      Your claim is a totally unproven statement after the event.

      I am 99% sure that Nicola is not going to hold one without Saint Theresa’s permission.

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