Leopard remains spotted
There was much hilarity on BBC Radio Scotland’s “Headlines” this morning (from 39m), as the studio guests discussed right-wing Scottish Labour MP Jim Murphy’s Daily Mail-assisted attempts this week to silence dastardly so-called “cybernats” by preventing them from attending debates or appearing on TV.
But an alert Wings reader had already noticed that Mr Murphy isn’t exactly new to the notion of attempting to muzzle those whose opinions are not at one with his own.
It’s fascinating to see that Mr Murphy’s attitude to political opponents hasn’t changed in almost 20 years, dating back to before he was a Labour MP. But we also note that the 13 Labour members who backed the motion condemning his anti-democratic conduct as president of the NUS would soon welcome him into their ranks anyway.
Wikipedia notes of the issue:
Now there’s a man who knows which side his principles are buttered.
The Labour party should rename itself to the Hypocrite Party. The incredible thing is that people still vote for them.
Jim has always worried me by how glassy eyed he gets when talking about military equipment. The Blair Government seemed to attract authoritarian control freaks like moths to a flame. Who can forget them throwing out an octogenarian life long supporter for heckling at a conference and using their own anti-terrorism laws to do it. Jim would love to shut debate down but he isn’t going to get his way.
Aye Ken was very funny on this topic this morning!
However I don’t doubt our intrepid investigative journalists in the BBC and the rest of the MSM will ‘fail’ to uncover this evidence when he is next interviewed?
I think that his “glassy eyed” look is because he’s constantly having to temper and tone down his extreme views!
Darling, Murphy will get what they deserve. Their jotters.
Back in 2011 I was playing golf with a guy who is extremely well connected with the NUM, STUC and the Labour Party. This guy knows everybody in Scottish Labour politics and quite a few in Westminster including Blair, Brown, etc.
I asked him for his opinion of Jim Murphy and his reply was,
“A very self satisfied gentleman.”
Thanks for the audio clip. I laughed out loud also, partly in response to the derisive tone about Mr Murhpy’s pronouncements and their clearly unrestrained mirth at the ridiculousness of it. And good to see National Collective getting a mention. I met that Greg Moodie in the Barony after the Independence March in September, very nice man…
It makes me wonder what will happen if the polls eventually show parity, or that ‘Yes’ finally hits 51%.
I think it will be rather interesting moment. A part of me believes that if the Yes vote goes from 51% to 52% to 55% to 57%, then I wonder if we will begin to see the ‘No’ campaign fade and die. In other words, they will just give up the ghost and let destiny decide what will be.
Or will we see even more extreme rhetoric? Headlines such as Alex Salmond is really Satan! SNP intend to ban Christmas! SNP to force everyone to learn Gaelic! SNP to hold Nuremberg style marches in Princes Street Gardens! How more bizarre can this ‘No’ mob get?
It makes me wonder. Will they just fade into oblivion …or will they just seriously and totally lose it?
Hmmmm….
The NUS has long been the proving ground for dodgy right-wing Labourites … Jack Straw, Charles Clarke, Phil Woolas, Jim Murphy. And don’t forget David Aaronovitch. It’s where they learn to put their principles aside in the intersts of the Party leadership, and then get candidacies in return. Tumelty and Streeting will be next; and expect Telford and Porter to get candidacies before too long. Stephen Twigg and Lorna Fitzsimmons also used the NUS route to being an MP.
i took a rare look at the Scotland on Sunday, the Yes supporters are obviously happy but I would say the No supporters a little less so.
I think if this trends continues, having already ditched Moore which looks like a mistake in our favour, there will be further changes.
I don’t think they will fade away I think they could get quite unpleasant. They thought they had this in the bag.
I hate to be reminded of this, or in fact remind anyone else about it, but I was responsible for electing Murphy to his first ever position in a student union. That was back in the early nineties and the campaign was marred by some underhand shenanigans that saw the campaign office of his main opponent glued shut on the morning of the election. Murphy’s door was also glued shut so it looked like it was the joke candidate who did not have a glued door wot done it. Such are the heady decision taken by a campaign manager…
If only they invented time machines I would go back to that time and shoot myself…
I saw the light shortly afterwards and joined the SNP. I was taking part in some campaigning during a by-election and came across Murphy again – his opening question “When did YOU join the nazis?” – having been hospitalised by the BNP it was not a jibe that I took kindly to but good sense prevailed and I did not respond.
If only they had invented time machines I would go back to that time and respond…
The only thing I can add about Murphy is that he is a careerist who often quotes and lives by the words of Marx –
“I have some principles, if you don’t like them I have some more”
I enjoyed the laughter in that snippet.
For all you computer geeks .scot is coming soon.
http://scottishgovernment.presscentre.com/Content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=2203&NewsAreaID=2&ClientID=1
Hand and Shrimp
Oh, I agree mate, it will get nasty, but that could also work in our favour. What makes me wonder is if they really lose it, and are seen to be losing it, then there must be a point of no return. The more bizarre the threats and nonsense, then the more people stop listening to them.
If you have a conversation with someone, and the conversation is either extreme or a bit bizarre, then there is always a key moment, when you begin to stop listening and instead, excuse yourself.
If the percentages for Yes do climb, then somewhere down the line, even the ‘No’ co-ordinators will begin to realise that the game is now a bogey and that if no one is listening, then they will slowly fade.
The only way I could see ‘No’ turning the percentages their way again is if they put …NOT offer …but put Devo-Max physically on the table (and even then, it would have to be written in blood with cast-iron guaranteed promises). This is the last ace I can see them playing if it all begins to go wrong …but the Tories will never go for that! I think the Tories would rather see Scotland independent, than ‘giving’ Devo-Max to the Scots, which would only enflame English opinion.
@JimWatson,
If my memory serves me correctly, didn’t Mr Murphy campaign on an anti-student loan platform, then have a dramatic change of heart once elected? I also have a vague recollection of him claiming quite extravagant expenses for suits. Still all good training for an aspiring Labour MP.
Suspended on twitter again.
I think when you mention offshore trusts and a chronic lack of tax being paid by the stinking rich in UK then perhaps some people want discussion on this sore point stifled.
Might be wrong, but did not mention GCHQ this time so cannot be that…
It was interesting to see what lengths Ken MacDonald went to in order to put caveats on the ICM poll. He went OTT in this respect. Not being a regular listener to this programme, I am sure Ken does this whenever there is a poll?
@JLT
No need to wonder. I’ve just been up the road to the mini market for some messages and caught a glimpse of the Sunday Times lead story. Apparently there’s a move afoot for legal action to force the Scottish government to give a vote to all Scots regardless of where they’re living. One of the democrats behind this is that well known proud Scotbut, Kenny Logan.
@Betsy
Your memory does indeed serve you correctly. But it is not the only time he has flipped on issues. The first Iraq war saw him standing on tables arguing against it to the student populace at Strathclyde. The second Iraq war saw him making excuses to his Celtic FC friends as to why “things are different and you wouldn’t understand” – whilst not ex-friends they have certainly adjusted their views on this titan of straw bending in the wind…
JLT says:
Headlines such as … SNP to force everyone to learn Gaelic!
I thought that particular scare story was already being used.
The unionists are losing you can’t win an argument if you have nothing to put up and argue about. We all thought that the polls were moving in our direction with the cranking up of project fear the reality is it is they who are bricking it Their Westminster careers are shortly going to be a thing of the past. Please will everybody hide this poll from Lord Foulkes he might keel over.
At Betfair money is still coming for Yes. Now down to 4.5
I saw the Kenny Logan thing, my thought was that he is a tad late and by the time this wends its way through courts and appeals and what not the vote will have taken place.
For anyone interested I have been keeping an eye on the Facebook “likes” for the official Yes-Scotland and Better-Together homepages since Novemeber. As we can see their is only one direction of travel.
http://oi40.tinypic.com/296myv6.jpg
Ivan Mckee vs John Boyle this morning up now on the Sky News website
http://news.sky.com/
“right-wing Labour MP” is a term we don’t see enough of.
Whenever I see Jim Murphy in a political context, I’m reminded of Henry McLeish’s sotto voce mutterings about John Reid (Lord Parkhead) which was caught on record :
“He’s a patronising bastard, he really is!”
Good news.
Twitter quickly assessed the reason for suspension and have unsuspended me immediately.
One would assume the initial complaint was deemed invalid?
Wish they would say who it was.
Well, I’m getting another 250 Yes papers dropped off today, so I’ll be folding tonight and delivering from tomorrow.
Street by street, door to door, that’s what will win it.
@HandandShrimp
I agree with you re the Kenny Logan thing. What I think is more significant is that the establishment are now desperately scrabbling around for some way to torpedo the Referendum. You can be sure that if the ICM poll is showing Yes close behind, then the actual figures are more like 50/50. I recall having seen a YouTube video of two veterans of the Quebec referendum whose advice was not to believe the polls and that in their experience the result tends to show that the polls favour No by up to as much as 10%.
So Westminster are bricking it as they try to come to terms with what this means for them. How are they going to explain this to the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland who have been fed for decades with the lie that Scotland was a dead weight around the neck of the rest of the UK?
There was a time when publically ridiculing a Labour politician was the equivalent of career suicide….now it’s starting to happen on an almost daily basis.
Thought to be fair to Murphy even he has acknowledged Greg Moodie’s is brilliant.
It’s astonishing just how quickly the NO side has started to collapse in the space of a month, I mean is there actually one single BT position that the same now as it was at the bells ?
Looks to me that they are being pushed back on all fronts.
To extend the war analogy, their ONLY hope now lies in a “Spring Offensive” with some form of Devo Max proposal from Labour.
And even if they can come up with something that hasn’t already been offered to the people of Scotland on better terms than in the White Paper and even we suspend disbelief and JoLa actually comes up with something.
Any ‘gains’ from this will almost immediately be lost in the Euro swing to UKIP and the Westminister swing in the key SE marginals’ to the Tories.
That’s because it’s a tautology.
I’m no convinced that John Boyle is a businessman!
@Marcia
Thanks for the .scot news.
According to The Register, UK government apparently agreed to the application back in March 2012 (that was a requirement under ICANN rules). Although it was also believed the domain might only become active in 2015. The middle of 2014 looks like bad timing for the unionists 🙂
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/26/gov_gives_nod_to_scotland_domain_name/
Watched the Mr McKee/Mr Boyle video there,got to go with Mr McKee who seems to know more as he does business all over Europe,and thinks Scottish businesses would prosper with better Scottish economic controls.
“gerry parker said
I’m getting another 250 Yes papers dropped off today, so I’ll be folding tonight and delivering from tomorrow.”
Great stuff Gerry. Get in there. I must say it’s posts like this that motivate me ever more.
Used to think that Ken MacDonald BBC Scotland “Headlines” was sympathetic to independence. This morning he commented that unemployment was down both sides of the border – while that was accurate I sent him a text with the actual figures Scotland down to 6.4%, UK down to 7.1& and of course the Scottish figures help the UK to look better. Text not read! I suppose its best to treat all who work for BBC Scotland with suspicion! Great to see the polls today helps my glass to fill a wee bit more!
@ Albalha
Thanks for the link, Albalha.
They subtitled it ‘Independence? The Business Debate’
Not so much a business debate as John Boyle proving he is prepared to be a scaremongering Britnat who won’t let the facts get in the way of a ‘We wullnae be allowed tae dae it’ rant. Unfortunately for him he was up against Ivan McKee. It’s just a pity Ivan wasn’t given more time to elucidate on the matter.
Also a good interview with Brian Cox in a sub article on this page:
http://news.sky.com/story/1201211/scottish-independence-46-percent-dont-mind
People are going to start laughing at this very weird Labour/BBC in Scotland right to rule so do as we say thing but watching the BBC Scotland politics show even this morn and BBC/BetterTogether are definitely trying to be so rude and aggressive in the hope that at least one SNP MP will lose it on camera.
When we had a wee soiree with the Labour for Independence team after an LFI launch meeting they were unanimous that the person they disliked most in the Labour Party was Jim “Friends of Israel” Murphy. I’d like to see him on the media front line. He comes over very poorly under any sort of serious pressure
Andrew Morton,
re: legal action to force the Scottish government to give a vote to all Scots regardless of where they’re living.
They can try, but will ultimately fail. It was probably agreed upon within the Edinburgh Agreement as to who can vote (as in, just the folk in Scotland), so The Times can go and pee off with their huffy headlines!
Plus there are too many ‘if’s and ‘but’s. Where do you draw the line? How do you classify someone who claims to be Scots if they were not born here? How far down the line do you trace their ancestry? Do we give it to someone who had Scottish Parents / Grandparents?
To trace and prove who should get a vote would be a technical nightmare, and personally, if Westminster wants to do that, then they can foot the extortionate bill for it.
Personally …the Times ‘demands’ are never going to happen. If anything, it will only rile the Scots within Scotland even further as it will be seen as continual interference by Westminster, especially when Cameron has said that it is a Scottish matter and for the Scots to decide …not every Scot around the UK or world.
JLT
Yes, imagine if Scotland voted 55/45 Yes (or even 55/45 No) and then, when the results of the ex pat vote came in it, swung the result the other way, what then?
There will come a point when HMG will have to decide whether this is slipping out of their control & reach. At that point they are going to agree to serious meaningful negotiation or to put the boot in. Remember their only concern is for themselves (the establishment). For that they need USA, seat at UN SECURITY COUNCIL (to second USA mad illegal ideas
@Andrew Morton 1.11. And the appeal will be heard by that
other great Bastion of the Scottish Legal System,
the Supreme Court,lmaf
I think they will carry on with the nasties and even more so up to September. However, will soften their attitude going into the last week IF it looks like they will get a doing!
Then of course as the YES vote romps home, the congratulations will start to follow, then handshakes, then comments like “I am sure you cannot blame us for fighting our corner, after all we were only interested in making things better for Scotland”
Looking for forgiveness for all they have done ? Huh, that will be a hard one! They just know what is in their interests, and if they do not want rUK to sink, they are going to be a whole lot nicer, I can’t wait to be smug!
The Tree of Liberty says:
Aye right enough. Anyone that sinks £10 million into a fitba team and bankrupts them canny be all there!
I’ll take Ivan McKee’s word any day before Johny “Britnat” Boyle’s!
Was it not the case that a certain Gordon Brown was also heavily involved with the NUS ? First student rector of Edinburgh University ! —- on becoming chancellor — one of his first acts was to cancel student grants and impose student fees ! —– Proves they are all a bunch of hypocrites.
Aye he’s got form Mr Murphy.He does mock outrage pretty well on the telly.Shame he looks as sincere as Tony Blair when he was spinning yarns.Independence = Redundancy for Jim. He’s definitely sincere about his bank balance mind you.
I listened to the Ken MacDonald show this morning, and the panel were laughing at ludicrous statement by Jim Murphy. I would say this line of thought, by the Jim Murphy smacks of desperation.
I find it interesting that articulate Scots like Alan Cumming and in particular Brian Cox are very comfortable stating their views for a Yes vote while accepting that their residency arrangements will not actually give them a vote. So why don’t Kenny et al just tell us why we are better the gither rather than saying it’s no fair that they cannae vote! Of course common sense will prevail eventually.
Surely it would be too expensive for an individual to take action in the courts against The Edinburgh Agreement?
The only thing that would worry me is that they might use it to delay the referendum until it had travelled through the legal process.
The likes of Kenny Logan need to butt out – he chose to live in London and that was his choice, he cannot then try to influence the decision of the people who have chosen to stay here and make Scotland a fairer country.
Have read a few snidish remarks r Ken MacDonald. Believe me, if we have (i.e. when he can get away with it) ANY friends at Pacific Quay, he is one of the few. Perhaps youse have failed to notice that his guest commentators are hardly Unionists . This morning, Dinwoodie of the Herald was the exception.
Ken has to appear scrupulously fair to the couple of thousand who bother to get out of their pits to listen. I am convinced he is a friend.
“Who can forget them throwing out an octogenarian life long supporter for heckling at a conference and using their own anti-terrorism laws to do it”
I wrote to my (Lab) MP about that incident at the time. First I was ignored, second letter got a standard response from a researcher, third letter suggested I go to see him at his surgery! Useless
@jimbo
I watched the B Cox Sky link I assumed he was residenced in Scoltand and had a vote. Learn something new every day.
” But we also note that the 13 Labour members who backed the motion condemning his anti-democratic conduct as president of the NUS would soon welcome him into their ranks anyway.”
You kiddin?
He probably included it on his application CV.
gavin lessels – I hope you don’t think my comment about Ken MacDonald was “snidish” – my comment and criticism was made clearly and openly – not snidely! He talked about unemployment without providing the full data. I sent it to him – it was ignored. Isn’t this what we are worried about with BBC Scotland all along. “Being fair” means presenting the truth – the whole truth not spinning it to suit either side. I don’t know how much latitude Mr MacDonald is allowed and I generally like his presentation.I did not say Mr MacDonald is against Independence just that he did not present the full facts and I still think we would be wise not to trust anything out of BBC Scotland!
Now I know this is totally subjective and not the kind of reasoned argument I tend to post, but, the man makes my skin crawl! He positively exudes that smug certainty that everyone else is something of a Fool and only he has all the answers–and do not dare disagree with me!
Mr Murphy is the antithesis of Byron’s statement that:
‘Nothing can confound a wise man more, than laughter from a Dunce!’
Now I know why Jim failed to get his degree.
I’m sure parliamentary expenses fiddler Murphy was one of the Labour MPs who supported the introduction of lie detector tests for DWP claimants. Maybe they’ll be introduced to screen audiences and debaters in order to pre-empt the threat of someone with views differing from Jim’s escaping into the public arena of national debate.
To be fair, Murphy’s support for such police state methods isn’t saying much as other such dictatorial authoritarian state paraphernalia as compulsory ID cards are quite popular in the Labour Party.
Reference –
Benefit claimants to face lie detector tests
05 Apr 2007
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2007/apr/05/socialexclusion.politics
There’s an interesting reply from Donald Anderson, of the SRSM, to Murphy after he denounced the SRSM as flag-burning extremists just ahead of the 2012 pro-independence rally in Edinburgh. See second press release here –
James Murphy Shadow Minister for War
http://www.scottishrepublicansocialistmovement.org/Pages/SRSMPressReleases.aspx