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Wings Over Scotland


For viewers in Scotland

Posted on November 22, 2013 by

Let’s make this one as short as possible. This week’s latest comedy FEARBOMB from the No camp (well, one among many) was a topically Doctor Who-themed repeat of one of their classics – “You won’t get the BBC after independence”.

whoscotland

We pulled that one apart in detail almost a year ago, but let’s see if we can boil it right down to the bare undisputed facts for easy quick reference.

1. An independent Scotland charging the same licence fee as is charged now would have – according to Labour’s Anas Sarwar – around £300m at its disposal.

2.  By the time of independence  – 2016/17 – the entire budget of BBC Scotland is scheduled to be £86m (“Financial and other information”).

3. The total amount of money the BBC made in 2012/13 from selling its programmes worldwide, to over 200 countries, was £312m (paragraph 8).

4. On average, then, for an entire year, the BBC made about £1.5m from each country it sold its programmes to.

So an independent Scotland with £300m in its annual broadcasting budget could afford to replicate the complete output of BBC Scotland (radio and TV) and still have £214m left over – approximately 143 times as much as it would need to buy in BBC shows.

Even if we were to put the cost to Scotland higher than most countries – because Scots would presumably wish to keep more BBC shows than other nations want – it seems to be stretching credibility some way past breaking point to believe that Scotland would have to pay more than two-thirds of the total that the entire rest of the world currently pays.

In fact, let’s say Scotland paid almost TEN TIMES as much for BBC programming as the average country – £14m. That’d leave an extra £200m a year in the Scottish Broadcasting Corporation’s budget, over and above what BBC Scotland produces at the moment. Imagine what could be done for the nation’s culture and sport with that. (And we could still afford to cut the licence fee a bit as well.)

In the meantime, nobody’s losing Doctor Who. Sober up.

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    1. Craig says:

      Lol, short and to the point, I like it. I think we need some sort of quick indexing system for posts like these. Posts with their references clearly listed etc, that quickly and concisely refute silly fearbombs.
      We could have a key word index (in this case BBC) that links to all the relevant articles. 🙂
       

    2. Iain Hamilton says:

      Excellent. The devil is indeed in the details. Still happy to miss out on Strictly, Eastenders and anything with Simon Cowell’s name attached to it. Now I suppose Mr Cowell will be all over the MSM front pages as the latest target for us nasty cybernat bullies.

    3. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Just back from Switzerland.
      Not only do they have Skynews, they have
      BBC1
      BBC2
      BBC3
      BBC4
      ITV 1
      ITV 2
      ITV 3
      ITV 4
      CBBC
      Do you think that Ruthie has ever been anywhere foreign, apart for England, except as part of an invasion force?

    4. seoc says:

      All we need to remember is that these silly stories are grotesquely exaggerated beyond the absurd.
      Wonder what Westminster is running scared of?
      Any ideas?

    5. MekQuarrie says:

      And we’d be entitled to a recurring cut of the BBC royalties having funded the making of these shows for decades…

    6. Snake Plissken says:

      I have to say that if Dr Who wasn’t going to be available I might need to rethink my position. It is my first love I’m afraid.

    7. Dramfineday says:

      Who,who,who,who……..(see what I did there? Big laughing thingy). Just the job Rev, easy to remember strap lines for the face to face stuff, great thank you.

    8. CLIFF MCCABE says:

      rev
      a minor point but won’t scotland also be entitled to a percentage share of any future sales of programmes made before independence. basically forever?
      Which will all be in addition to the £300 million licence fee.

    9. Kirriereoch says:

      These stories don´t do the Better Together side any good at all. My sister is an avowed unionist, she loves how London is her capital and “We may be in a bad way now, but we´ll be worse if independence comes to pass,” “Some of the SNP are xenophobic bigots”etc.
       
      She knows fine well this story is simply taking the piss out of people now. She´s watched TV in Ireland and knows that half the world gets the BBC and probably pays nothing or very little for it. 
       
      So stories such as this and, for example, the phone roaming charges story, quickly shown to be untrue etc have her throwing her hands up in the air and saying “They´re taking the piss now. Do they really think we´re that dumb?” (answers on a postcard).
       
      Maybe she´ll end up as a “FIF” voter as Derek Bateman eloquently stated.
       
      “If they judge that the forces of the Union have patronised them, insulted them or taken them for granted and if they credit Salmond – again – for being a man with the guts to stand up and be counted, they will breathe deeply and say: Fuck It.”
       
      http://drderekbateman.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/the-fif/

    10. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      This is interesting, incidentally:

      http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/05/29/having-the-bbc-available-in-the-south-gives-us-a-clear-link-with-what-politicians-in-the-north-are-doing/

      Nobody seems to know any more whether BBC channels are broadcast to the Republic of Ireland for free or not. Press releases have been subtly altered, but there’s been no actual announcement and no news of how much might be being paid. Gosh, it’s hard to work out why such information might be being repressed.

    11. Robert McDonald says:

      I wonder if the good folks at pacific Key would still be as antagonistic to Independence if they realised that their funding could (might, may be insert weasel word here) be many times higher than at present?

    12. Ken500 says:

      The BBC is crap accessible world wide.

      The Internet

    13. HandandShrimp says:

      The thing is there are hundreds of channels on TV and most nights there is nothing much to watch.
       
      Do to the vagaries of TV reception I have had Sky for years. I have access to Fox News, Nigerian God Channels and any number of other weird and wonderful stuff. BBC and ITV are also pumped through the satellite. Regardless of what happens with Pacific Quay will the advertisers on Sky not want ITV, C4 and all the rest to continue being pumped to Scotland? In short I don’t think there will be any shortage of TV in an independent Scotland. Even if BBC blocked transmission at council telly level there would be nothing stopping a SBC buying the handful of decent programmes made by the BBC.  

    14. auslander says:

      @Bugger (the Panda), Swiss law says something along the lines of any signal broadcast in the clear over the country can be rebroadcast by the country Cable providers. Even if the BBC didn’t operate in Scotland post Indy, it’s not as if freesat boxes et al. would magically turn to dust.

    15. A2 says:

      The only flaw in your reasoning is that it is dependant on what Anas Sarwar has said is factually correct which as we know is a bit of a shaky assumption to be making.

    16. faolie says:

      And maybe also we wouldn’t have to listen to ridiculously uninformed, economically illiterate, too lazy or too stupid to check facts, BBC reporters telling us (yesterday) that, yawn, ‘England subsidises rest of UK’.

    17. HandandShrimp says:

      I suppose it is all academic as in an independent Scotland the ability to remember how to breathe will be lost and we will be too poor to afford to pay for people to come and teach us how to do it so TV will be the least of our worries.

    18. JLT says:

      Another article to be added and printed off for my growing collection of truthful information for my family, friends and work colleagues.
       
      Cheers Rev.

    19. Jingly Jangly says:

      I would rather pay to watch Russian and Iranian TV news that Briish, with the former there is much more interesting stuff about whats happening in the UK and they don’t give you stories about cats being stuck up trees.

    20. Steve B says:

      It’s not just the BBC either – as far as I know Channel 4 is still owned by the UK government – although all it’s revenue comes from advertising – so I assume that Scotland would be entitled to it’s percentage of that?

    21. Cath says:

      But will it be real independence if we still have Strictly Come Dancing?

    22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “a minor point but won’t scotland also be entitled to a percentage share of any future sales of programmes made before independence. basically forever?”

      One would certainly have to assume that’d be one of the assets to be negotiated over.

    23. Jimsie says:

      I simply cannot believe that in an independent Scotland there will be demand for programmes showing news of England v Australia at cricket ( they play all of the English summer and the Australian summer ) the silly Boat Race, the Trooping of the Colour, the last night of the Proms and that other fancy dress party the State opening of Parliament. BBC ? You are welcome to it.

    24. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Lol, short and to the point, I like it. I think we need some sort of quick indexing system for posts like these. Posts with their references clearly listed etc, that quickly and concisely refute silly fearbombs.”

      Well, they’re in the “Reference” category.

    25. JLT says:

      Robert McDonald says:     
      ‘I wonder if the good folks at pacific Key would still be as antagonistic to Independence if they realised that their funding could (might, may be insert weasel word here) be many times higher than at present?
       
      I’ve wondered about that for a while. Surely, someone within that building; some executive, must sit there and realise, that come Independence, they are literally going to be like a kid given the keys to the sweetie shop.
       
      I cannot believe, that there is no one in Pacific Quay, who sits up-on-high, and has thought this.
       
      It makes you wonder then, just how much of an intimidating and bullying influence do the BBC bosses in London, as well as the Scottish Labour Party, excerpt over Pacific Quay.
       
      Certainly makes me wonder…
       

    26. Juteman says:

      Dr Who is a feckin Time Lord!
      He can bend time, so who’s to say we won’t receive future programmes before our southern cousins! In 2021 we might be watching episodes from 2048!

    27. Clare Gallagher says:

      I had a rare wee chuckle at this latest scare story! BT are obviously in dire straits to be peddling nonsense like this! Okay our arguments are being blown out the water, let’s threaten them with no more Doctor Who? You really have to give them points for effort!!

    28. Doug Daniel says:

      I do wonder if people who get animated about this pay attention to how much genuinely-BBC programming they actually watch.
       
      Most of the programmes I watch are Channel Five American crime procedurals (The Mentalist, CSI, Law & Order, Person Of Interest, Castle, Body Of Proof), with the only time I really watch the BBC being the foreign dramas on BBC Four, which obviously aren’t BBC programmes at all. There’s Pointless, University Challenge and Only Connect, but there’s nothing to stop those being purchased by an SBC (in fact, I believe University Challenge is actually made by ITV now, which is quite strange – check the logo at the end credits). In fact, as much as I like University Challenge, it wouldn’t hurt to be deprived of seeing privately-schooled nitwits every Monday.
       
      All that’ll really change about the programmes we see is that we’ll stop getting force-fed news about the English NHS, English education, English policing, the English justice system etc, and instead we’ll get much better funded Scottish news and current affairs. Imagine turning on your TV to channel 2 at 10:30pm and seeing Gordon Brewer… Actually, perhaps don’t.
       
      Oh, and we should stop seeing “British” in the title of every second programme as well… Although as there is apparently a programme called Britain & Ireland’s Next Top Model, it’s not exactly beyond the realms of possibility that we’ll still get such programmes, perhaps made collaboratively between the BBC and SBC, like the way the Swedish and Danish broadcasters collaborate on stuff.
       
      (Oh, and like the way the BBC already does with HBO, RTE, and even Canal+ in France.)

    29. Helena Brown says:

      I cannot think of anything more awful than having to actually keep the BBC in any form.  I would agree that there is nothing stopping anyone watching it, I am sure there is no chance of it vanishing from Sky for instance, but given their behaviour here, I do not agree with Fiona Hislop in saying that she would use the present staff as the basis for a National Broadcaster. I would take them to the Border and kick them over myself.

    30. Craig P says:

      Imagine the immense cultural and sporting renaissance that would happen if everybody in Scotland had no TV signal, and we were forced instead to read, think, paint, go out and socialise, engage, act, play sports… what an incredible opportunity is presented by a world without TV! 

    31. JLT says:

      Jingly Jangly says:     
      ‘I would rather pay to watch Russian and Iranian TV news that Briish, with the former there is much more interesting stuff about whats happening in the UK and they don’t give you stories about cats being stuck up trees.’
       
      Ha ha ha …that reminds me of the time when I attended the Scottish College of Textiles in Galashiels when I was a student back in 1986.
      One of the local news stories (and I kid you not! This was the main headliner for Border news) was that someone had tried to kill a rather famous duck on the River Tweed with a crossbow!
      Don’t ask me why the duck was famous …it just was! I remember everyone in the TV room of the student union peeing themselves laughing at this ‘main headliner’ of the day for Borders news. Terrorism, the Cold War, Thatcher, nah …let’s discuss a famous Border’s duck!

    32. muttley79 says:

      A integral staple of the Unionist discourse against independence:
       
      You will not get to watch *pick appropriate TV programme under independence*
      Businesses and business people are being intimidated into silence.  No evidence needs to be offered.
      Border Posts at the Border.
      End of Scottish shipbuilding if we vote for independence.
      Shetland and Orkney will want to become independent as well.
      Nearly 20,000 will lose their job if we lose Trident.
       
      14,000 Treaties to be renegotiated/scrapped whatever.  Suspiciously later rounded down significantly.  Better known as the ‘too much paperwork argument.’
      Cyber-Nats are bullying and being abusive to well known Unionist personalities.  Evidence does not need to be offered.
      North Sea Oil is too volatile for a Scottish state.  However, to the British state it is integral to the economy.
      Scotland will be left defenseless, and under threat from terrorists.
       
      REPEAT AD NAUSEAM.  YES THAT IS YOU MSM…

    33. Edward says:

      To be honest I think with retaining £ 320 million in licence fee money within Scotland, will with out doubt open up broadcast media in Scotland and will see a expansion of broadcasting to serve all of the country.

      One aspect I would like to see is a departure from the ‘Glasgow centric’ ethos that we have had since day 1 of the BBC in Scotland
      My wish list is to have the main broadcast head quarters in Edinburgh. Glasgow to be developed into a proper media city with tv and film studios. To have proper TV and radio studios in Perth, Dundee, Hawick, Aberdeen as well as on the inner and outer Hebrides and the Northern Isles.

      A programming to reflect each part of Scotland and to encourage this to have lunch time news programmes coming from Inverness, providing International as well as Scottish News. I want to see complete inclusion of news items from all of Scotland, so that all of Scotland knows what is happening in every corner.  Scottish life is most definitely not about a daily diet of ‘Murderrr’ that we have been fed

      Sports coverage really needs a complete and utter kick up the backside, from actual coverage to news reporting. You currently listen to BBC Radio Scotland and you think that the only sport is Football, Rugby (sometimes) and English cricket. That has to stop! I would suggest a joint STV / successor to BBC Scotland survey across every part of Scotland to see exactly what the people are actually interested in. There are sports such as Ice Hockey, Shinty, Curling, Basketball that just don’t get a look in currently. But go along to an Ice Hockey game and see the crowds that turn up and support their respective teams.

      Scotland is more than capable of providing a second to none broadcast service

    34. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “There are sports such as Ice Hockey, Shinty, Curling, Basketball that just don’t get a look in currently. But go along to an Ice Hockey game and see the crowds that turn up and support their respective teams.”

      Sportscene (and Scotsport) used to cover more than just football. With a lot more money kicking around in our broadcasting budget, you’d hope they might do so again. The amount of money spent on Sportscene compared to Match Of The Day is one of the more visible insults to Scotland’s status in the Union.

    35. JLT says:

      Jimsie says:     
       
      …the last night of the Proms
       
      Hey! I like the ‘Last Night of the Proms’. I want that kept!!
       
      It might be imperialistic and jingoistic, but it has some rather good ‘British’ classical music (I know, I know …Oh, go on then …beat me with a pig’s bladder, won’t you!)

    36. Robert Kerr says:

      The Tardis is shown at Worm’s Head, down the Gower. The background is Rhossili Beach.
       
      I was in the Worm’s Head Hotel at the time and we could hardly see the Tardis for the rain. Really peeing down.
       
      Production costs? who cares. Its BBC license money.

    37. muttley79 says:

      @Cath
       
      But will it be real independence if we still have Strictly Come Dancing?
       

      😀  It is one of the more noticeable features of the independence debate that those most opposed to it somehow think they should be the ones to define what independence for Scotland looks like!  It is ridiculous.

    38. Al Ghaf says:

      Hate to burst your bubble Rev, but the unionists are right; Dr Who vanished from Scotland in 2016. 

      Then in 2016 the Tardis arrived from 1963 and nobody was aware of the difference. 

    39. macdoc says:

      O/T bad news 71% at Nairn Academy vote No to independence. 
       
      What is it with kids they seem to be the largest cohort against independence. It really is very worrying. 
       
      I’ve tried to argue with many youngsters on twitter and their mind is completely made up, immune to facts and their ignorance is absolutely  frightening. something really needs to be done!!

    40. Spout says:

      Try watching Tudor Monastery Farm on the BBC (excellent program)…
       
      count the number of time they say “Tudor Britain”…
       
      and try NOT to throw your TV out of the window 🙁

    41. gerry parker says:

      OMG.
      The Scottish Daily Express leads with.
      “PREPARE THE BORDER POSTS”

    42. Jimsie says:

      JLT                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              No doubt you noticed that they dropped Auld Lang Syne from the Proms programme. I suppose it doesn”t fit with their English nationalism even though it is the international anthem of friendship. Mind you, at the end the audience have a go at singing it even though they do not know the words.

    43. Wp says:

      Right what can we frighten them with.
      oil, tried that
      defence, tried that
      economy, tried that
      got it, tell them no more doctor who.
      games up now guys.

    44. muttley79 says:

      O/T  Just had a look at Labour for Indy website and there is a message from Sir Charles Gray.  It says:
       
      Even as the Festive Season approaches there is still a continuing interest in next year’s Referendum to decide Scotland’s future. It’s subject to sometimes intense discussion in pubs and clubs, in homes and carefully, but formally in schools, colleges and universities. While many may still have to make up their minds,
      a fast growing number of Labour Party members and voters, and many more Trades Unionists are already determined to vote YES.

       
      Older persons are mindful of the early Labour & TU movement of Hardie, McLean, Gallacher, Wheatley and Johnston and their like: men who birthed a vision of social equality and equal rights for all and in whose simple, but ardent ambition was Home Rule for Scotland. Given, and recalling, the suffering endured by hundreds of all ages in those not so far off days, it would be foolish to contend that the present Scottish Parliament would be sufficient to satisfy their hopes; hopes which had clearly contained the dream of an Independent Scotland. And now there is the increasing call by folks from all walks of life: ordinary men and women, scholars, business and young people all joining in the call for Independence for our beloved ancient land : SCOTLAND. Hasten the day !

    45. MajorBloodnok says:

      I am sure that we’ll have Dr Who in an independent Scotland – they’ve spent so much money putting in lifts and ramps in railway stations and public buildings to comply with the DDA there is only one explanation, that it actually stands for the Dalek Discrimination Act.

    46. JLT says:

      Jimsie,
       
      Yep, noticed that too during the last one. Now it’s just ‘God save the Queen’. Well, to be honest, if they really want to take it down an elitist English route, then so be it. All they are doing, is reinforcing the end of the Union.
       
      Still …if we break away, then we can’t argue about the choice of music that they play! We’re at the exit door, and they know it. Maybe the changes have finally begun.

    47. JLT says:

      macdoc says:
       

      O/T bad news 71% at Nairn Academy vote No to independence. 

      I wouldn’t worry about it at this stage. All the schools are reporting outcomes like this. Even my Stepdaughter said that in her class, they had a vote, and it was overwhelmingly ‘No’. The kids are just not aware to the same extent as we are.
      One thing to take heart from, when the same polling has been done in the universities, most of them have returned a ‘Yes’ vote.
      If their parents decide to vote ‘Yes’ …then the chances are, the bairns will vote ‘Yes’. It’s the adults we need to get to. Convince them, and they’ll convince their kids. If you try to convince a 16 year old, who then tries to convince his Unionist parents, then the kid will be slapped down. We have to go from top to bottom, as in parents to kids, not work from the bottom up.
       

    48. @Juteman
      Dr Who is a feckin Time Lord!
       He can bend time, so who’s to say we won’t receive future programmes before our southern cousins! In 2021 we might be watching episodes from 2048!

      Does he work for the IFS?  That might explain a few things…

    49. Alistair Wilson says:

      I often wonder how many so-called BBC Scotland productions for the ‘network’ have little or nothing to do with Scotland. The end caption may say ‘a Gigantic Pictures (Scotland) production for BBC Scotland’, but often the subject matter, the locations and the presenters are all English, and I’d bet that few of the technical and production staff working on the show are based in Scotland or ever come here. In fact, I reckon that many of these programmes are ‘allocated’ to BBC Scotland to meet the targets for ‘regional’ programming. 

      Paradoxically Dr Who is actually shot in Wales, although you will notice that with the typical BBC mindset, the Tardis spends a lot of its time in London. (Actually shot in Cardiff, which is why anybody familiar with London never recognises any of the streets) Strange, given that the Doctor can go anywhere in the universe!  But at least it is shot and edited in Wales. Is there a Scottish equivalent?  Apart from Newsnicht, of course?

    50. Doug Daniel says:

      Muttley79: “It is one of the more noticeable features of the independence debate that those most opposed to it somehow think they should be the ones to define what independence for Scotland looks like!  It is ridiculous.”
       
      And according to the one-man Labour social media presence (Hothersall) today, it’s the SNP’s fault that the referendum doesn’t have a third option on it. Amazing stuff.
       
      News just in: black IS white after all.

    51. Clancheif says:

      THEY CAN SHOVE THEIR LICENCE FEE in an independent Scotland

    52. macdoc says:

      JLT
       
      Yeah I’m aware that Kids follow social trends- i.e go with the majority or your an idiot etc. But what worries me is that must mean that parents either aren’t educating their children or they are unionists themselves. It shows perfectly (although most likely exaggerated) that the NO’s definitely are considerably out in front.

    53. muttley79 says:

      @Doug
       
      And according to the one-man Labour social media presence (Hothersall) today, it’s the SNP’s fault that the referendum doesn’t have a third option on it. Amazing stuff.
       
      News just in: black IS white after all.
       
      Please tell me Hothersall is not blaming the SNP for the lack of a second question in the referendum?  Good lord, how deluded and brainwashed can you get?  The Unionists kept going on about Salmond’s “insurance card” and were delighted when there was only one question.  😀  Talk about destroying your own credibility.

    54. sneddon says:

      “a minor point but won’t scotland also be entitled to a percentage share of any future sales of programmes made before independence. basically forever?”

      Good point but as far as I understand any commercial rights and monies accured to the BBC  are owned by the BBC regardless of where the money came from to make the programmes. I can’t find anything that says otherwise 🙁 The physical assets and their value will be up for talks but the dosh from specific programmes, I just don’t know under current copyright legislation if indy Scotland could claim a share of the royalities from BBC output past and present because we part funded it.

    55. kendomacaroonbar says:

      If I’m not mistaken, Question Time is produced by BBC Scotland.
       
      Come independence, do the foreigners south of the border think they’ll still be able to watch it ?

    56. Jingly Jangly says:

      Slightly O/T but I thought it was funny, mid nineties at a meeting at the now defunct BCCI headquarters in London, we are high up overlooking the east end of London during the lunch brake, whilst I nibbled on the sannies, gazing out the window, both myself and another attendee from Aberdeen started humming the east enders theme tune.

      The Chairwomen of the meeting (A computer users Group) and with a cockney accent asked quizzically you don’t get East Enders in Scotland do you. I replied that we did and it was brilliant and we were currently enthralled by the antics of Dirty Den. (This was several years after he left the program) She said he is dead, I replied that I had watched him the other night and he was very much alive giving Angie a hard time. Hook Line and sinker, then we got onto Coronation Street!!!

      I thought I was taking it to far talking about Ena Sharples but no, its amazing how far the memory recalls soap story lines from the dim and distant past especially when you don’t actually watch the bloody things.

      I think she was amazed that we had television at all.
       

    57. Alistair Wilson says:

      Question Time is actually a good example of a ‘Scottish’ programme that is made by an English company (Mentorn IIRC) to a UK agenda and rarely comes to Scotland. When it does it invites people like Farrage on the panel. But it is Scottish, so that’s OK then. 

    58. sneddon says:

      macdoc- I wouldn’t worry too much.  Nairn Academy pupils are not an accurate barometer of what young people across Scotland think about indy.(I don’t think any school vote could do that due to the numbers being so few, if every school did one that’d be different)  The internal dymanic of inter pupil/teacher relationships probably affected the result more than the implications of a yes or no vote.  Age and voting intention is a funny thing.  In my gran’s wee group of fellow retirees and general neer’ do wells 🙂  they are mostly indy supporters whereas the polls report older people being less likely to be voting Yes!.  I’ll just have to have a word with my younger nieces and nephews, can anyone point me to a book on how to speak to teenagers 🙂

    59. Clancheif says:

      OR
      it could mean that what they are being taught at school is only the unionist story
      and they are not aware of the independence side of the argument
      Thus they cannot make an informed decision and will go with what they are being taught at school

    60. Maureen Luby Vss says:

      With regards to the kids, I’m not sure that their voting at school would be a true reflection of their parents’ voting intentions.  Kids, especially teenagers, are more likely to be influenced by the alpha males/females in their peer group.  Now this could be the ‘perceived to be cool kids’, who we know are not always the brightest or most articulate but can often be just the loudest.
      However, I do think that the young ones are a group that do need some more information.

    61. Cath says:

      “what worries me is that must mean that parents either aren’t educating their children or they are unionists themselves. “
       
      I don’t think people being currently No means they’re “unionist” any more than someone being Yes means they a raving nationalist. Most people are genuinely undecided, confused or fed up with the debate. And most are going through their very busy lives paying scant attention beyond the soundbites and headlines, which are of course relentlessly doom-mongering and bullying.
       
      Older people are, on the whole, a bit wiser to the bullying, lying crap from Westminster politicians and will treat it with a wary eye, even if falling for it on some level. Kids though, tend to want to be on the side that seems bigger, stronger and more bullying. It’s very hard at school to go against peers, or against what you’re told to think. Apart from risking alienation and being thought weird, you often don’t have the experience or knowledge to really back it up either. 
       
      My bet would be most people in that age group will swing with the prevailing mood. Right now that’s no. If it’s still no by next September, that’s probably how they’ll vote. If it’s yes, that’s probably how they’ll vote. 
       
      But folk are not stupid at that age. If anything you have more energy, a more open mind and are far more open to learning and changing your mind then than at any other time in life. If they discover they’ve been being lied to and treated as idiots by one side of the debate that could well create a backlash. And we are all being lied to and treated as idiots, but Better Together seem to be targetting that age particularly, believing them to be most easily manipulated – that’s why they didn’t want them to have the vote.
       
      Question is will they notice before and vote yes, or afterwards when they may potentially have helped deliver a no vote? 
       

    62. Dcanmore says:

      If anyone here knows of young people who are NO or DKs then steer them towards The National Collective Facebook page. The Collective is more on their wavelength with creatives, artists and musicians making positive indy commentary.

    63. Heather McLean says:

      This was announced on my local radio station at 7 am yesterday morning as the DJ was reading out various news headlines. I phoned the radio station and spoke to the DJ informing him that I was seriously sick fed up of all the scaremongering nonsense stories which were coming out of the mouths of Better Together.

      I informed him that my sister who is in Australia for 6 months is able to watch her favourite Strictly Come Dancing programme and that friends of mine in the Republic of Ireland could watch BBC programmes without having to pay the licence fee.

      He agreed with me that the story was ridiculous and that people could watch Dr Who on iplayer or by streaming it off the internet, and invited me to stay on the line and put forward my point of view! I took up his invitation and duly informed the listening public of Dundee that the story was scaremongering nonsence from Better Together!

      It fely good to have that opportunity, I have to say! ( Incidentally the DJ wasn’t on this morning – on a long weekend break apparently – I hope he hasn’t been sacked!)

    64. Fergie 35 says:

      I look forward to not paying the license fee

    65. JLT says:

      Madoc,
      At present time, kids are influenced by other kids, or they just believe what they see of hear in the media.
      Once we get into the heart of the debate next year, and can convince a majority of Scots that Independence is correct, then this will filter down to the bairns.

      Plus, taking in the London Olympic and ‘British’ theme, Scotland will have a lot of events next year. This will also seep into the mindset of the young. If promoted right, these kids will begin to believe that Scotland can do anything, including surviving pretty well post-indy.

    66. emdeeem says:

      I think Scotland should forget about Dr who and produce their own version….Dr fa?

    67. Edward says:

      On the topic of buying BBC made programmes. There is an assumption that an independent Scotland state broadcaster would just buy BBC programmes only. To be honest that isn’t actually what they need to do. Apart from , say some ‘popular’ programmes. They can go out on the market and buy what they please or commission what they please. They would be in direct competition as well with STV for buying and commissioning. Which could be interesting.
      The shape of future programming could be quite different to what it is today as a future broadcaster will not be required to ape the BBC in London . At the same time those who like watching the current ‘popular’ batch (ie Eastenders, Holby, Strictly) will still get those, but will have other programmes from other makers that could be just as entertaining. There may come a point when interest in BBC made soaps drops off, in favour of other programmes. Coming back to STV, they would also be free to buy BBC made programmes if it wanted

    68. ewen says:

      Rev, No matter what the press releases omit, I can assure you that ROI gets the BBC at no extra cost. Freesat is available to all.  I am not aware of any technology that could block part of the satellite footprint. 
      I use a non Freesat receiver but those who use a dedicated Freesat receiver just put in a UK postcode to get it to work. All these unionist scare stories seem to be made up by people living 50 years in the past. They don’t actually know how modern technology and society operates but they think their world view is relevant today.
      The whole family will be watching on Saturday. Nice to see another Scottish doctor in the thick of it.

    69. Another London Dividend says:

      O/T Carmichael saying he will stop Scotland using Sterling
       
      http://archive.is/uRA54

    70. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Good point but as far as I understand any commercial rights and monies accrued to the BBC are owned by the BBC regardless of where the money came from to make the programmes.”

      You’ve missed the point. We own 8.4% of the BBC. If we give that up, it’ll be as part of negotiation for which we’ll get something in return.

    71. Robert McDonald says:

      When we’re independent the Scottish Tardis will be smaller inside than out and only go backwards in time!
      I’ll get my coat…

    72. Morag says:

      No doubt you noticed that they dropped Auld Lang Syne from the Proms programme. I suppose it doesn”t fit with their English nationalism even though it is the international anthem of friendship. Mind you, at the end the audience have a go at singing it even though they do not know the words.
       
      It was never in the programme.  The prommers sang it impromptu at the end, after the actual programming had finished.
       
      I sang in the choir in the Proms for about ten years, including the Last Night.  I remember one year myself and another choir member who was also Scottish detouring down to the arena as we left the stage, while that was going on, and trying to get them to get the words right.
       
      No chance, obviously.

    73. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Stu at 11.40
       
      I’ve heard it reported that e BBC pays Alan Hanson more than it pays Scottish football

    74. Jon D says:

      And this weekend WTF is it with the BBC and JFK.
      WGAFF

    75. Neil says:

      This is the news I’ve been waiting for! I’ve not been sleeping for months, worrying that The Doctor wouldn’t be around to save an independent Scotland from the next threat that the media and better-together were readying themselves to warn us of – that which is, the Terror of the Zygons.

    76. X_Sticks says:

      Another London Dividend says:
       
       
      “Carmichael saying he will stop Scotland using Sterling”
       
       
      So he will still be SoSfS after independence?
       
       
      I wonder at what point we are allowed to use words such as ("Tractor" - Ed) or ("Quizmaster" - Ed) in our response to some of the comments from “proud Scots” in London. 
        

    77. Marcia says:

      Heather,
      Good for you.
      A good while back I was asked in London if Scotland had TV. The Asian lady had a rather skewed picture of Scotland as she said she never hears about Scotland on TV or radio in London. I explained to her, yes we did have TV but it was powered by North Sea Gas and the only drawback was that when the tide was out the reception was a bit iffy. She believed me.
       
      Next scare story – Scotland won’t be allowed to participate in the Eurovision Song Contest if we are Independent.  🙂

    78. @Another London Dividend says:
       

      O/T Carmichael saying he will stop Scotland using Sterling http://archive.is/uRA54

       
      So AC doesn’t believe in federalism or further devo anything then.
      http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/dont-be-interfering-old-busybody.html?showComment=1385119759185#c2165886216229672076

    79. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      JLT
      I wonder whether the epilation of BBC News (Scotland) was not part of the plan all along.
      The appointment of card carrying or or intellectual fellow travellers (Fraser) into positions of influence and control, and the reduction of bodies was designed to force a “unionist” agenda. The trouble makers like Derek Bateman, Lesley Riddoch and Joan McAlpine was also part of Project Fear?
      It is ripe for being shut down and turned into a a CBBC news rediffuser from London, post a NO vote.
      If a YES vote, these people, the enforcers and supplicant headliners will have booked their golden parachute. They no that given a YES, they are fook’d and no way will they be allowed to continue in whatever form the SBC takes. Defenestration.

    80. Les Wilson says:

      Sorry O/T but just in case it has not been posted in Wings, and I can’t find it has. Here is a post from Newsnet that shows just how much Scots ate NOT subsidised.
      http://www.cebr.com/reports/how-money-in-some-regions-subsidises-others/

    81. Hetty says:

      Helena Brown says
      I do not agree with Fiona Hislop in saying that she would use the present staff as the basis for a National Broadcaster. I would take them to the Border and kick them over myself.
       
      I love that, what a great idea. Visualising this has made my day thanks!

    82. Yodhrin says:

      @Craig P: Oh aye, that’s fine and lovely for Normals and the able-bodied, what about those of us who, for whatever reason, can’t just skip out into the street to play hopscotch or rings in the setting of some idealised-but-never-really-existed golden age from history?

      Bloody up-themselves hipsters, always going on about how they don’t have a telly anymore and their life has been so enriched with all the free time they have to read classical-era Epics in the original Greek, so everyone else should just have to copy their example; never occurs that some people can’t, or that those who simply won’t are perfectly well entitled to their preferences without being looked down on for enjoying a soap opera or whatever.

    83. balgayboy says:

      I reckon that Fiona is blowing smoke up the BBC and their unionists pals arse’s just to keep the a**holes contained and feeling secure/happy that they have life after independence.
       
      Truth being is that they will be fucked right off and put on the train down to their country of homage to find employment in their proclaimed utopia..and good riddance to them.

    84. Luigi says:

      Scotland has cowered behind the couch for too long.
       
      Like those Dr Who monsters; the project fear stories, that once terrified us, end up looking ridiculous. 
       
      Time to grow up Scotland – make it YES in 2014.

    85. Another London Dividend says:

      I’ve never liked Dr Who.

      Using our licence fees, in a deal with BT Sport , the  BBC recently agreed to pay around £16 million a year to screen 16 English FA cup ties which comes on top of  £180 million to renew the Match Of The Day highlights programme plus  £15 million a year to broadcast highlights of lower English league games and an undisclosed sum for 10 Live English Championship games a season as part of a £265 million deal which brings English second tier £88 million a year.

      Contrast this with their failure to even attempt to bid for live Scottish Premier League football thus reducing the sum, £12 million a  year, Sky needed to bid to secure the rights.

      It doesn’t take a genius to work out that this is a terrible deal for Scottish football. The SPL is the 11th most-attended league in Europe, ahead of Switzerland, Austria and Norway, all of whom can command higher television revenue. 

      Based on UK viewing figures for SPL matches we should earn at least 5% of the English  total  which would bring in  £60 million a year.  That would transform the game in Scotland.

      In Norway their domestic league football rights have been sold for £44 million a year.   Why is Norway so much better off?   They are independent.    Vote YES
       
      Read more at
       
      http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/knowing-our-rights.18109410

    86. G H Graham says:

      The act of watching TV is a wholly lazy pastime, both physically & mentally. So it fits perfectly with 21st century lifestyles in which most folks have plenty of spare time to wedge their arse on the couch while scoffing Findus factory food. On average, viewers spend some 5 to 7 hrs each and every day soaking up propaganda, howling at puerile scandals & watching dramas with plots as thin as fag paper.
       
      That little is made in Scotland by Scottish production units matters not to the majority who are content to find themselves absorbed by output hosted by Jeremy Kyle/Jerry Springer & salacious doctor themed dramas. It really is a sad barometer of modern lifestyle choices.
       
      I don’t have a TV license & will not watch the BBC at all. Most of the other channels are just padded out with US reality programs or show tedious repeats of two smart arses from Bristol or Norwich exaggerating the financial windfalls achieved by flipping crap houses in Leeds.
       
      I no longer watch TV & suggest you at least try finding alternatives as an experiment. You’ll be amazed how much more productive & interesting your lives become when you wean yourself off watching shite.

    87. callum says:

      >Marcia.
       
      One of the main reasons I’m voting YES is so that Scotland can be a separate nation in Eurovision.  They could have saved 499 pages in the white paper by stating that.  Who gives a damn about oil, economics, nuclear weaponary when you’ve got glitter and a ballad being sung into fake wind provided by a fan just off stage.  Just wait for wee Scotland getting loads of votes from the Scotia-Scandic-Slavic-Baltic voting blok while the former UK gets the usual 1 or 2 pity points from Ireland.
       
      😎  only kidding.  but everyone will have their reasons – the role we all have to play is to listen to our friends, family and neighbours and tune into what will convince them of a YES vote.

    88. Edward says:

      @Hetty
      @Helena Brown
      @Balgayboy
       
      It should be recognised, that despite how we all feel about the BBC in Scotland, it would be a bit ‘tactless’ to say the least to have a government minister say something along the lines of ‘rounding up the scum and taking them to the border and kick them out’ I can just imagine the rightly indignant furore that would happen.

      We may desire it, we may wish it, but in the real world we have to be more civilised and have a modicum of forgiveness.
       
      We really don’t know what is going on behind the scenes in the BBC in Scotland. I would hazard a guess and say that in the main, they are all professional people trying to do a professional job in a restrictive atmosphere.

      We know from former BBC journalist Derek Bateman, that the people in Pacific Quay are under pressure from outside forces, such as Lamont’s script writer, Paul Sinclair. It was Derek who highlighted the fact that Sinclair would call Boothman on a regular basis to ensure the Labour message was out there.

      Yes there are of course staff in Pacific Quay that, to various degrees are out and out unionists. They know who they are, but it’s to us to only speculate which ones. IF they cannot be professional enough to be above the political debate (which I think some do try), then they should consider taking time out.
       
      It will be very interesting though, that in the event that Scotland does vote YES next year, to see, just who does stay on and who goes. If they are professional enough they would want to stay as it would be a very exciting time in broadcasting in Scotland.

    89. Andy-B says:

      Probaly one of the more laughable BT fearbombs, infact Nicola Sturgeon, mentioned the absurdity of the fearbomb on FMQ’s this week along with the FM.
       
      I’m rather excited about Scottish broadcasting in Scotland, more Scottish content, would create a less feel bad culture about ourselves, and could lead to more film productions in Scotland.
       
      I honestly can’t see a down side to Scottish broadcasting, you only have to look at the BBC’s bias propaganda machine just now to fully realise this.

    90. The SBC will get £145.50 more than the BBC has got from this particular viewer since September. Tick a box saying you only watch catch-up services and wave bye bye to Crapita and the TV licence. You can still watch the BBC, but you get to pick what unionist drivel you want to laugh at.
       
      Apparently Crapita are crapping themselves at the number of people who’ve taken this option and the BBC are trying to keep it quiet lest it catch on and we all do what the Aussies did with their TV licences (Shove it, mate!).

    91. Alex Taylor says:

      @ Roddy Macdonald
       
      I’ve done the same, mate. Bonzer!

    92. Iain Ross says:

      Wife was over in the Netherlands yesterday with work and surprise, surprise BBC1 and BBC2 were available on the council telly. Still I suppose if we have the gall to vote the wrong way then they shall single us out for special treatment, like in some sort of playground game.

    93. wullie says:

      mad doc and others
      Let the young know that there is a bill going through the westminster parliament for the re introduction of conscription for 16 to 25 year olds. Might make them think twice about a no vote.

    94. redcliffe62 says:

      Please note that the BBC is trying to tighten the footprint on its new Astra satellite signal in an attempt to make sure that areas outside key areas no longer get a free service, by using a big aerial.

      Now think logically.

      It is not difficult to see that people in Scotland in the border areas and even up to Glasgow and Edinburgh could watch the BBC without paying a penny in a foreign country. The MSJORITY of Scots could acces the BBC for nothing other than a strong aerial.

      This needs to be resolved before September 2014, otherwise why would anyone in Selkirk or Penicuik pay for a service they get automatically and have no compulsion to legally pay for?

      A campaign stating vote “YES and get the BBC free, no need to pay, as Ireland, Belgium and Netherlands  does” would be hard to fight or argue with, hence the panic at the BBC as they try to somehow make their signals a lot tighter without weakening services in areas that would post 2014 actually pay for a licence. Berwick paying and Eyemouth not would have Scots laughing at their neighbours. I can see the funny side too.
      South of Spain might lose out, but Edinburgh is only 40 miles from the border as the crow flies and the signal strength covers far more than that!

      My daughter lives in Strabane on the Irish border 1km into Northern Ireland and does not know anybody who pays for a licence there. Nobody.
      In light of the above, I suspect a deal with the BBC, part owned and paid for by Scots, would be quickly resolved.

    95. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      “What is it with kids they seem to be the largest cohort against independence. It really is very worrying. ”
      I fear it may in part be the Radio One effect. I never listen to it myself, but somebody who does says it “says bad things about Scotland and the Referendum” whenever the topic arises. Good old BBC again.

    96. Les Wilson says:

      Even if we do vote YES, and we take BBC programs, I think we will still suffer an endless amount of propaganda just to show us what we are missing from not being in the Union. Of course when we do something wrong, as they do, and we will. Things sometimes happen which we need to accept and set about fixing them. But, boy will it be shovelled down our throats.

      So I guess we really need to monitor this and do not buy anything that will be anti Scottish in it’s rhetoric. I do however, not mind the nuts and bolt employees staying on either but I would ( personally ) throw out all the ones who have constantly worked against us. We all know who they are, and that would stick in my throat if they were again in their slot, I never would want to see them again, such has been their intentions against us.

      They most certainly be a miffed lot, the people MAY begin to understand better if they can get Scottish SBC programs in England !  

    97. KenC says:

      Regarding Nairn Academy, it is also worth noting that it was all years S1-S6, not just those eligible to vote.
       

    98. redcliffe62 says:

      So the argument I made above is not that you won’t get the BBC after independence, just that you will not have to pay for it if you do.

    99. chalks says:

      Kids vote no because a lot of them have no idea about the real world.  Not trying to patronise them, but they haven’t lived on their own, had to step out into the real world, get a job, get a flat et al…jesus, if you asked a 16 year old boy where to go to get setup with a flat etc he’d have no idea…..when I was younger I had no idea about scotlands finances, I was alway pro indy because of the principle of it.  Not everyone is like that, some people fear change, fear risk. 
       
      We expect them to see through the bollocks, but they are young minds easily swayed by mainstream media opinion. 
       
      They just don’t understand YET that there is no more risk than there is for staying in the union.
       
      It’s annoying so many are against Scotland standing on the world stage, but we shouldn’t be shocked by it.  Andy Murray coming out as Yes would help matters, but I have faith in the young to eventually get there.

    100. aldo_macb says:

      agree with the first poster craig that it would be great to have a filing system so we can easily share old posts e.g. bbc, trident, opinioin polls, voting system, etc…. A bit of work for the rev unless he can find a techy volunteer to help.
      this post is a cracker and well worth sharing over the coming months

    101. john king says:

      Jimsie says
      “I simply cannot believe that in an independent Scotland there will be demand for programmes showing news of England v Australia at cricket ( they play all of the English summer and the Australian summer ) the silly Boat Race, the Trooping of the Colour, the last night of the Proms and that other fancy dress party the State opening of Parliament. BBC ? You are welcome to it.”
       
      And the Lord Mayor of London’s parade 
      what the hell is that about and why should we give a monkeys about it
      I’ve never understood this getting airtime outside the southeast of England.

    102. john king says:

      Endless cooking programmes,
      antique programmes ad nausium, mind numbingly boring game shows telly,
      on the cheap,

    103. Juteman says:

      @Roddy.
      I stopped paying my BBC tax about 18 months ago. After many threatening letters, I phoned them up and told them to stop harassing me, as I don’t need a licence. When asked why, I said I had decided to stop watching the BBC due to their bias in the referendum debate. He said someone might visit to check. I told him they could feck off too!
      I’ve never heard anything from them since.

    104. john king says:

      JLT says
      “This was the main headliner for Border news) was that someone had tried to kill a rather famous duck on the River Tweed with a crossbow!”
       
      Bizarrely I think I remember that story,
      his name couldn’t have been Donald could it?

    105. john king says:

      JLT says
      “Hey! I like the ‘Last Night of the Proms’. I want that kept!!”
       
      Ok ok JLT keep your hair on, the proms stays, but Eastenders has to go,
      RICKYYY OMG 
      as long as I get brass band contests on the telly then?
      what?
      I like brass bands!

    106. Edward says:

      I think some are loosing track of what will be reality

      First there will be a transition period for the BBC in Scotland

      We will continue to receive BBC programming as it is

      Then when a new independent state Broadcaster, for sake of argument , call SBC, will take over all functions of the BBC in Scotland. SBC will use all existing terrestrial transmission equipment and with negotiation with SES, take over the transponder space on the Astra satellite allocated to BBC 1 Scotland and BBC 2 Scotland. It will still be broadcasting normal output. still no change to that

      At an agreed point all transmission from London will cease, but at the exact same time transmission from Scotland will start. Will you notice, no you will not notice anything at all.

      But from that point all programming supplied by the BBC in London will be paid for by the new SBC, who will have already taken over the licence fee money, which will now be processed through Scotland

      STV will be completely unaffected by any change, as it is not ITV. It will continue to purchase ITV original programming such as coronation street. But it will need to decide what to do with the ITN News slots. What’s likely to happen there is for STV to negotiate its current package from ITN in supplying the evening news and News at ten, to a point that ITN will be commissioned to produce a Scottish version of both.

      Freeview will continue as before as that is terrestrial based from Scottish transmitters. Freesat on the hand, will be altered slightly, with SBC making a contribution towards the Freesat platform which is a BBC/ITV joint venture

      Basically we will still get almost the same favourite programming, but with different labelling.

      It is not beyond reason to see that broadcasting will change but no one will notice the changes as such. We will continue to pay our licence fee and we will continue to receive tv and radio.

      But gradually there will be an evolution that will see an expansion in Scotland of the broadcast media

    107. Dcanmore says:

      When a mate lived in Belgium from 1999 to 2003 he used to watch BBC1 and 2 for nothing, the programmes were even listed in the local Flemish TV guide. I barely watch the telly now, the BBC just don’t produce enough shows that I’m interested in. In 2012, 67% of the BBC’s television output was repeats, is that value for money given the corporation’s annual budget of £3bn? I think not. The BBC has simply become bloated, too many departments trying too many things including the pointless BBC News24, same six stories on a loop for hours.
      When a Scottish public broadcaster is set up it will assimilate the BBC in Scotland operation, take the assets and arses (for a while), but then isn’t there some controversy about who owns the Pacific Quay building? Another PFI black hole?

    108. Gray says:

      I really don’t get the youngsters either though I suppose I had a lot more exposure to politics than most and something happened in the summer of 1966 that somehow justified my belief that we really ought to be an independent country in our own right.
       
      Does CBBC have some sort of political agenda they brainwash kids with that we miss by never watching?

    109. Edward says:

      JLT – ‘The Proms’ by the BBC
      Interesting. For me I find the Proms an abhorrent piece of jingoistic crap, promoted by the BBC for the BBC, and promoting the idea that , ‘only the BBC can make these programmes’
      I actually love classical music, opera etc. But there are better produced across Europe, without the flag waving jingoism that the Proms concocts.
      It should be noted that since 1947, Edinburgh has had and continues to have one of the largest art and music festivals in the world. It attracts some of the worlds leading orchestra’s and opera companies each year. You would think this would be ready ‘made for tv & radio’ broadcasting material with the BBC leading the charge to broadcast live or almost live each year. But it doesn’t. preferring to ignore and to pump out its own manufactured high brow stuff from the Albert hall.
      It has only been within the last few years that the BBC have done any recognition of the Edinburgh festival, but usually in the shape of a limited late night arts magazine programme.
      So from day one of an independent Scotland, I hope that instead of carrying the proms, we see live performances direct from Edinburgh. Its not as if there would not be enough material. Fact is you could at least have about 6 months programming with everything that happens at the Festival

    110. john king says:

      emdeen says
      “I think Scotland should forget about Dr who and produce their own version….Dr fa?”
      fit?
      ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 🙂 
        

    111. Helpmaboab says:

      The Daleks really did force me to hide behind the sofa as a child. It was their shrill monotonous voices and their unthinking support for a cruel tyranny that scared the keech out of me.
       
      Ruth Davidson has the same effect on me today for exactly the same reasons.

    112. ronnie anderson says:

      roddy mc donald & others, do yous think that not paying Bbc licence fee will catch on, ha ha why pay fur pish when you can get it for nothing & help the YES  campain , its gonna be some christmas / new years  partys fur bbc staff tak yer ains sannys / bottle btw theres a whip roon fur the hall hire / dance band get it rite up ye ya fekers X licence fee payer

    113. Titler says:

      *scratches head*  Sometimes, I’m really rather puzzled by the chaps here; Yes, on the face of it, the idea that Scotland couldn’t just buy access to BBC output is absurd. But then so is the understanding of how the actual debate would play out… there’s a single, simple sum this article forgot to do.
      Scotland’s Funds From Licence Fee: 300m
      BBC Total Worldwide Profit: 312m
      BBC Profit minus Scotland’s Licence Fee: 12m.

      Unless you are suggesting Scotland will keep giving the Licence Fee directly to the BBC? But if you mean that, Scotland doesn’t have 300m to spend on importing media. And if you don’t, if that money is kept in Scotland, the BBC is down 300m in income.

      Whether that matters or not is a question for an Independent Scotland, and is thus a question of democracy. But whether or not the BBC will continue to produce Dr Who, or anything else, is a matter of business. They probably will, it’s one of their greatest earners, but either overall output or quality of programming elsewhere is likely to be slashed to make up that 300m shortfall. And 12m operating profit for an organisation as large as the BBC isn’t a very large safety net at all… The idea that the BBC can just carry on as before is simply not the case.

      Now I know many people here would like to see the BBC implode. So would Tory Central Office. And what about those nurses who let your dear old Granny die eh? Why should you pay money for incompetence?! Let’s reform the NHS too… There’s a risk that here at Wings, everything has to be framed as “Good News For Scotland”, that there’s never likely to be hard choices really, that it’s all unionist spin. But… no, there really will be. Of course, Scotland can vote to stay as a contributing member of the BBC; whether post independence the rUK politics will let you is a different question. Why would they let foreigners, and lefty ones at that, influence what should be British Broadcasting?

      The Tories are gunning for the BBC and have been for quite some time. Do you really think they’ll pass up an opportunity to shaft it and then blame those evil Scots Nats for making them do it?  The moral responsibility is still theirs and theirs alone; but the BBC not surviving the break up of the UK is a real possibility, even if they’re using the threat of the very result many of them secretly want, to warn you away from choosing what they don’t want to choose right now. “Don’t vote or the BBC gets it”.

      To value Independence more than the costs of blackmail is your democratic right; but to pretend there actually isn’t any real hostage taking there…? No, there really is. The BBC is likely to pay a considerable price post independence. And this article actually lists that price; 300m. To start with. Should Scots be trying to save the BBC? Not for me to say, although I have a pretty obvious opinion. But you should at least be asking that question, rather than just assuming you’ll have 300m to spend and the BBC. You won’t.
       

    114. Brian Mark says:

      Re the Nairn Bairns and the 71% who would vote No, time for a wee bit project fear with this lot like, they would be facing the following, forced conscription into the army or unpaid work, low paid jobs for the rest of their lives (those lucky to get a job),  brit scot versions of education, mega amounts of tuition fees for those who desire a university education. for ever being told that they are to wee, to stupid and to poor to run what is left of their country, need I say more? As stato Curtice keeps on telling us the youngsters vote will will not influence the independence vote! I blame the X Factor, numbs the brains of the poor wee souls.

    115. ronnie anderson says:

      Near Day , Edinburgh send e mails to RT asking them to cover the celibrations, or jist put up wie  ,Jackie Burd / Kirsty Wark, would the bbc be happy chapies , Naw

    116. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “They probably will, it’s one of their greatest earners, but either overall output or quality of programming elsewhere is likely to be slashed to make up that 300m shortfall.”

      Well, there won’t be a £300m shortfall. It’ll be about £100m. Out of the £300m Scots currently send it, the BBC has to pay for BBC Scotland (around £100m) and supposedly spends another £100m making programmes specifically FOR Scotland, even if they’re not made IN Scotland. It will no longer have to do those things if Scotland is independent, saving it £200m.

      The BBC’s total income, from licence fees and BBC Worldwide profits etc, is about £5bn.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/annualreport/2013/executive/finances/licence_fee.html

      £100m is a hole in that (why do you think the BBC is so anti-independence?), but it’s hardly a shattering catastrophe. It’s 2% of the budget. And if it stops making some shows, it’s not going to stop making super-successful profitable ones like Doctor Who. I reckon we could all think of 2% of BBC programming we could live just fine without. Heck, if there’s any of it we especially like, we could afford to buy the rights and make it ourselves.

      I vote for “Mongrels”.

    117. AlexMontrose says:

      A SBC would be in a position to do a deal with the SFPL, something more in line with Norway,
      The one main differentiator between the two leagues is also the most crucial one – money. While the latest five year TV deal for the SPL is worth £80m, the 16 Tippeligaen clubs are playing in a whole other financial league.
      Their new four year agreement, starting this season, is worth around £180m. That means that top-flight clubs in Norway will each season receive almost three times the television revenue of its Scottish counterparts.
      but would there be an fair deal for all clubs?
       

    118. JLT says:

      Edward,
      I know a lot of folk might be scratching their heads at me over ‘the Proms’, but as I said, beat me with a pig’s bladder!

      I like the suggestion of a Scottish Proms, whether it’s done from a variety of venues from around Scotland. I watched Andre Rieu’s show from Maastricht the other day on SKY Arts while taking a break from decorating, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I can’t be bothered watching operas, though I do love listening to operatic pieces.
       
      As to ‘the Proms’ …I can only apologise. It is like a guilty pleasure. My only one! What can I say?
       
      Give me ‘Last Night at the Scottish Proms’, and I swear never to watch the ‘Last Night of the Proms’ from the Albert Hall ever again!

    119. Derick fae Yell says:

      Personally, getting rid of the TV in 2011 was one of the best things I have ever done.  For a while I watched catch-up but even that, once you get out of the habit, doesn’t really do it any more.   You fill the time and more than fill it with other activities.  For example, coming across an online Scottish Political Digest.  And learning, rather than passively consuming.  I recommend it.

    120. Edward says:

      JLT – Love the idea for a Scottish Proms 🙂
      The bit I was trying to get over was that the BBC, which we fund (ok most of us fund), ignores the arts in Scotland. So I think part of the remit for a ‘SBC’ would be to cover the arts more and, yes have a Scottish Proms 😉
      Opera’s can be a bit like Bovril, either you like or you don’t. There are some that I don’t like, but there are others that are stirring. One thing I could recommend is Les Mis, which I have on blue ray and that I found stirring, for some weird reason I keep thinking of the cause of independence, when they are on the barracades ……

    121. gordoz says:

      Who on the YES side now really gives a flying FXXX about the BBC / STV or Scottish Media of any sort other then the Web really !

    122. Titler says:

      “£100m is a hole in that (why do you think the BBC is so anti-independence?), but it’s hardly a shattering catastrophe. It’s 2% of the budget. And if it stops making some shows, it’s not going to stop making super-successful profitable ones like Doctor Who.”
       
      Yes, we agree on that. But that’s also my point, what ever you get after Independence, it won’t be the same BBC you have before it; and there’s precedent for this, the Thatcherite assault on broadcasting that led to ITV and Channel 4, which for the most part, when they looked at which areas were profitable, dropped their Public Service wings extremely quickly. Not absolutely, but it completely changed the nature of broadcasting overall, and much more in line with corporatist ideology. You’ll get Doctor Who, yes. But what else?

      So back to my main quibble; if we accept your expanded figures the argument doesn’t change. The BBC pulls 200m out of Scotland, but Scotland saves that in Licence fees and more. Scotland makes a net gain with regards to “Broadcasting”. But that’s a different question from what the BBC itself now is; it now can’t provide the kind of programming the Scots want, because it doesn’t have the local infrastructure. It’s gone remember? That’s part of the calculus being made.

      You can still buy their programming though, yes? Well no. Not unless the political situation radically changes in the rUK, because anything that isn’t Doctor Who, and especially looks political to a lot of extremely vengeful Tories, is likely to be cut post-independence.
      Honestly, the opposing argument is that the Tories are going to defend a universal BBC to ensure an independent Scotland still has access to quality television. Which part of that makes any political sense in rUK terms?

      Now in a sane world, the BBC would be allowed to become the British Isles Broadcasting Corporation and continue to operate in, program for independent Scotland. If asked too, natch. What’s more likely to happen is the rUK Government will use the political bias regulations, turn it on that 2% or even 0.002%  financing question and break as much of the BBC as they can; can we REALLY AFFORD to have leftist Scots telling us how to spend our money, times of austerity, blah blah …

      My point then is that, much as people here feel it’s biased, in the BBC there’s one area we really are Better Together (ahaha, sorry). And even if you add up all the pros and cons and say Independence is worth more than the BBC, if Stu’s claims Labour are not going to win the next Election are right (I think they will win, but in name only) and the Tories get in… I really can’t see the logic of complacency around the issue of the BBC.  Yes the leaflet’s are dumb, Doctor Who is the one thing you might still get. But the BBC is going to be on the other side of the boundary lines drawn, stuck in hell with the rest of us poor rUK sods. And it won’t be making that Scottish profit any more, so…

      Incidentally, no more public toilets for us in Bristol; 25% of the entire council budget goes next. I was one of the maybe 30 people protesting outside the Wills Memorial Building where he announced it to a ticket only event (quiet like, as I’d lost my voice from a cold). And I don’t know which I find more confusing, the fact that Bristolian people just shuffled by, eyes down, broken and deliberately not wanting to know… or the idea it seems some have oop norf that they’re running for the life rafts not because of an encroaching national disaster, but because it’ll all be tea and spiffy cakes once you’re in the smaller boat. Maybe it’ll be better for you guys, but unless I leap in too, I’ve got to grab the people left behind and shake them and keep shouting “It’s turning to shit and the ships rats are gnawing your legs off damn it, wake up!” And having eaten all the post in the ships mailbags already, the rats are coming for the ships broadcasting next…

      I… just don’t understand how people can’t see the wider picture all at once.

    123. X_Sticks says:

      Titler
      Are you trying to say that we shouldn’t vote for independence because your bbc won’t be as good if it loses its Scottish subsidy?

      “even if you add up all the pros and cons and say Independence is worth more than the BBC”

      I can’t believe you actually wrote that. You are comparing the self determination of my country with the wellbeing of a state broadcaster based in another country. I can’t decide whether that is condescending or arrogant. Maybe I should just think of it as ill considered.

      I sympathise with your lonely vigil protesting against the loss of public toilets in Bristol and commend your stoisism in the face of the political apathy in England. Maybe Scottish independence will wake them up before their legs are gone.

      Perhaps it is you who can’t see the wider picture all at once. Can’t see the thousands of Scottish kids who have had to leave their country to find work. Can’t see what it feels like to live in what should be a rich country but in fact has some of the worst child poverty and lowest life expectancy in Europe. Can’t understand the desire for the people of a country to have self determination. To have the government that they elect. To go in the direction of their choosing.

      What happens to the bbc is a question for after independence. Like with everything else there will no doubt be negotiations. The survival of the bbc is not that important.

    124. ayemachrihanish says:

      Rev, as you say “Even if we were to put the cost to Scotland higher than most countries – because Scots would presumably wish to keep more BBC shows than other nations want”- the elephant in the room with that approach is EU competition rules.
      The SFA are being sued for persuing restrictive media practices that the BBC would also be guilty of if they played a tune on the selective costs of granting access to – what is afterall – an EU State Brodcasters output.

    125. john king says:

      JLT says 
      “I know a lot of folk might be scratching their heads at me over ‘the Proms’, but as I said, beat me with a pig’s bladder!”
       
      Not at all JLT  I hope and pray for the day when we can have a world respected philharmonic orchestra in Edinburgh or Glasgow to match the London, Berlin or Chicago orchestras. 

    126. john king says:

      Xsticks says
      “The survival of the bbc is not that important.”
      I’ll go further Titler I would welcome the demise of the BBC 
      300million p/a would go a long way to creating our own television industry in Scotland, the loss of Dr Who, Eastenders et al leaves me completely (in the words of Mandelson) intensely relaxed 
      so if the Tories think doing a blazing saddles “make one move and the n****r gets it”

      is quite frankly laughable in its complete lack of understanding and in fact quite insulting in its ignorance of Scottish aspirations.   

    127. john king says:

      Gerry Parker says
      “The Scottish Daily Express leads with.
      “PREPARE THE BORDER POSTS”
       
      I read that headline yesterday Gerry,
      no real attempt by the Express to explain why an immigrant would choose to come to Scotland where he/she is welcomed with open arms,  would then decide to move south to England where they are not welcome and treated like dirt? or is the Express suggesting that the nirvana for all immigrants is England,
       that paper exemplifies all that is wrong with the English (not I admit universal) supremacist self delusion.

    128. john king says:

      Let me run this up the flagplole and see who salutes.
      right, iScotland persuades SKY  to relocate its headquarters in Glasgow/Edinburgh (who cares), and allows them to transmit live feed with time delay of say 7 minutes (no longer live tv) which in turn justifies the population of England to tell the BBC where they can stick their license fee, 
      just imagine the rUK  government trying to withdraw SKY’s licence to broadcast in England for a minute? there would be riots, the BBC  would starve to death in front of our eyes, there would be billions of pound floating around looking for somewhere to spend it who do you think would benefit?
      SKY  of course, Billions more in to an iScotland’s treasury and the BBC
      well they would be consigned to the history books, OH JOY 
      if the Westminster lot think they’re the only ones that can do punitive action well their wrong!

    129. X_Sticks says:

      john king says: 
      “I’ll go further Titler I would welcome the demise of the BBC”
       
      I don’t know I’d go that far John. We don’t want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There is a lot about the BBC that is good and worthwhile. I think it would be worth looking at what we could do in conjunction with the BBC post independence. I do agree however that the BBC in Scotland would require complete reform. and the removal of certain politically motivated people in PQ. They know who they are. So do we. 

    130. Caledonalistic says:

      Can watch Dr. Who in Denmark, where I live, and in the US where I often work.  Just what has the Dr. got against Scotland?  He’s been Scottish for at least two incarnations ffs. 

    131. Ken says:

      TV programs do not matter as all we seem to get is everything connected to England why do we need ITV news when STV News could include national news as well same on the BBC.

      No wonder the kids learn nothing in school these days as most of the time everything is all about England.



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