You can actually try changing it
This post is mostly here to give people somewhere to chat about the council election results as they come in. But this song, with a hat-tip to alert reader SparkleMonkey, is dedicated specifically and personally to the now-former Scottish Labour councillor (and one-time leader of Aberdeen City Council) Willie Young, who was ejected by the electorate earlier today.
Today is going to be a day of realignment in Scottish politics, in which the Tories will formally become the main opposition to the SNP. (Having already pipped Labour to second at Holyrood and having as many Westminster MPs as them.) Expect modest SNP gains and big Tory ones, both mainly from Labour, who have already lost overall control of Glasgow, their last stronghold.
Everything’s different after today, folks. Scotland’s choice will never have been more stark: extreme Tories in the UK for years and years to come, or self-governance. Let the chips fall where the people choose.
And can you call it? I need to figure out whether to stay or start looking a leaving.
I believe we’ll win a second independence referendum.
…re-alignment I can understand. We replace Red Tories with Blue Tories. However when some of the most deprived areas of Scotland, those who suffer most under Tory rule elect Tory for their ward I am truly baffled.
If the Tories gain in Scotland at the GE, we are off. Dissolution of our parliament is coming, if they do and we don’t vote for independence.
I’m not an idiot but that voting system is far, far too complicated.
As Mr Bateman noted a few posts back who better to have in opposition that a rabid pack of Tory/UKIP nutters. They are more likely to turn swing voters in our favour for GE17. Just keep the head folks.
Pretty much what I’m seeing.
Wonder how Labour feels today about hitching their team to a Conservative wagon for the past few years? Wonder if today they’re thinking ‘yeah, definitely worth it’?
I hope you’re right Stu. I now worry that if we do, we’ll end up with the Tories in power. As Clootie says, I am truly baffled by folk returning Tories. Maybe there is nowhere that’s immune to the madness.
So what if the SNP will be a few seats short of a majority in Glasgow? They’ll form a minority administration. And nobody has to lose sleep over that, both SNP minority administrations in Holyrood have been strong and stable – unlike some majority governments down south…
As someone else noted the Tory gains may be a “flute result”.
Oh, and where people report results from wards, would it be too much to ask to add any changes or just the word unchanged?
Scratch under the red and blue, find orange.
This is what Ruth wanted. This is what she now has. I’ve got a bad feeling about it.
Yes rev, you are quite right. We are now entering the end game if you like. The polarisation is increasing in the more deprived areas which contain a large core of staunch unionist voters.
The choice between an independent Scotland and remaining in the UK is ever more stark. I do not expect hard core unionists to change, but there is scope to bring many on board given what a one party fascist state under the all conquering Tories would actually mean for everybody, given their desire for an unmitigated disaster of Brexit.
Stark choice,stark decision required.
@Cath
After the Brexit vote I thought about getting another passport and eagerly researched my family tree. Alas, I’m just too Scottish to benefit from any immigration…
Rev.
Given your record in forecasting, I’ll take that.
My daughter and her BF decided in 2015 they didn’t want to live in a country of “shitebags and idiots”. I thought once the lies used to win, became clear people would see sense. However, it is a slow, slow process.
I’m in my 50s and like Cath, I was faced with the prospect of looking elsewhere, if we lose again!
I hope the stark choice becomes crystal clear, especially since the Tories now have a councillor in Feegie Park! You couldn’t script that FFS! The most multi-deprived area in the UK have voted for a Tory! I truly despair.
It must be a proud moment to be a Tory when the racist bigots of UKIP find you irresistible.
BBC are spinning so hard their plates are about to fly off.
The count in Aberdeenshire is painfully slow. Computers must be tired. But so far, the SNP vote is holding up well. Even in the Banff Buchan areas where the fishing vote was thought to be a threat.
http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/elections/local-government-elections-2017/
Given that the Tories have won seats in Shettleston and Ferguslie Park am I right in hearing the dulcet tones of flutes playing in the background.
Looks as if the Ulsterisation of Scottish Politics is working for Ruth’s Rangers.
Local council elections should be about who does the best things for their community and nothing to do with political parties.
It’s an exaggerated swing to the Tories. Even hardcore labour voted Tory because they are so idiotically blind in their hatred, they would rather vote for the workhouse than vote for a party who want to leave the union.
The Courier’s man on their liveblog is trying to pretend Tories getting elected here in the Ferry is some sort of surge. This ward has elected two Tories before anybody else gets a lookin for the last few council elections at least.
The Ferry will elect two Tories, at least one SNP and the fourth one is anyone’s guess, maybe the other SNP person.
RD turned this into a referendum on indy – it is the only explanation for Ferguslie and Shettleston – red, white, blue and orange.
See all these Tory councillors that get elected.
I suggest we bombard them with all the local problems we can find. Get them bloody working. Make them wish they’d never been elected.
Take it through all the disciplinary levels you can if they don’t play ball.
They are evil and deserve to be treated in such a manner.
Yup, listening to the BBC coverage on my earphones at work and you’d think the Conservatives were winning everywhere and that up here we are now all hard core Tories ….
They really sound quite celebratory all in – almost sick of listening to this – they’re not comparing change enough, only talking about Tory gains 🙁
Having spoken to quite a few folk now on the way they voted,it has become clear to me that the ballot paper itself is part of the problem.Some have said they wanted to vote SNP 1&2 but because of the way the ballot paper is formed,they found that the 2nd SNP candidate was way down the page and by the time they discovered that,they had already numbered several candidates thinking there was only 1 SNP candidate.Perhaps the Ballot form should in future be printed with candidates according to party…would certainly make it easier on voters.
It is a relief to see not so future Sir Wullie Young go, but jesus christ, he’s wrecked the heart of Aberdeen and he’s left behind so much staggering debt, to say the least.
Sir Wullie’s reign of “its only fackin money.” does epitomise SLabour’s unionism in its Scotland region right enough but seeing Paul Weller again is a pick me up too:D
I’ll bet across the UK as a whole, Tory strategists will be cacking it. You see, all the ‘Tories did well’ in the council elections hype we will get for the next week at least, may indeed drive people NOT to vote Tory again in a few weeks time, as a landslide is expected anyway.
IMHO, had the SNP won massive control over all Scottish councils, it would have held them back. It is as the Rev says, now a new politics in Scotland Pro-indy (and by extension pro-scotland)SNP versus London unionist Tory diktat forever.
As for Labour, they are no doubt sitting somewhere today, uttering something about ‘no more referendums’, and SNP Baaad’. It seems they are still clinging to the political norms of the 1970’s and 80’s. By repeatedly playing the Tory anti independence game, and attacking the SNP instead of the Tories, they have been sidelined by their ‘partners’ in better together, the Tories.
This will help us win the referendum. And we WILL WIN. 🙂
Up next the General election.
The Ulsterisation of Scottish politics, as promoted by the Tories and their dog-whistle agenda, continues as many of us predicted.
No-one should ever underestimate the raw hatred and ignorance of those who riotously assembled in George Square in September 19th 2014 – although shrinking in numbers, the Orange vote has now mobilised and been deployed as never before.
Don’t however, expect any of this to form part of a post-election critique by the likes of John Curtice, Brian Taylor or Davidson herself.
Yes, the BBC are remaining true tae form. Shaping the narrative as Scotland ‘turning Tory’. What did we expect? This does not make it any easier watching some of these results coming in.
For aw that an aw that it’s comin yet for aw that
Straight fight, square go, see ye at 4, them and us politics
and we’ll win
By a distance
How a self-respecting Labour supporter can vote for the R. Clause Davidson Tory Party saddens me.
Never in a thousand years did I imagine Labour people………
Some of my former colleagues in arms will now have to live with that shame and sup with the Tories.
*KLAXON*
The accompanying link comes with a SEVERE health warning!
This is the sort person who will be in Glasgow City Council for next five years … he’s 19 years old apparently.
I’ve heard his first act will be to push for reintroduction of prescription charges, Tuition fees etc. 😀
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/photo/101639850456727702167/6416621620693334802?icm=false&authkey=CKGh8PnymO3auQE
Check turnouts. The right wing is coalescing around the Tories, as we expected.I hope they get around 30%. In a low turnout they’ll get their vote out, so that’s their whack. 30% 0f 35% turnout is diddlysquat.
We’re going to win
We cant sey we weren’t warned what was coming:
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-ordinary-people/
Meghan duly elected to North Lanarkshire and was wearing UNION JACK Shoes!!
Come on North Lanarkshire, was it Ravencraig Blue in the shoes?!!
What worries me , looking at the results in the NE is that the Tory in almost every case has been elected at stage 1. We nee to get the vote out on June 8.
A definite final abandonment of Scottish Labour, with yoons piling to the Conservatives…
Two things –
They don’t give a fuck for any actual Tory policy *except* for the union.
They’ve completely forgotten that it was Tory policy historically that has decimated Scottish industries – they’re grandparents would be birling in their graves.
The orange/bigot/ranjurs vote has just announced they are in it for the union at *ANY* cost…
To those who say it is about indy2, then you are absolutely correct. We have seen today that staunch unionist areas have reverted to staunch unionist candidates. It is indy 2 in miniature.
The most telling thing however will be if the SNP overall vote holds up, It is not necessarily about gaining control of councils. The stage is nicely set for indy ref.
To give you a flavour of what we face, I will tell you a story from a meeting with my neighbour this morning. He voted Tory he tells me because with Rangers getting mauled by Celtic and winning nothing he felt that true loyalists had to regain some of their pride by keeping the UK intact. He had to show that his Protestant religion had still some importance in Scotland.
I have known him 20 odd years and in all that time never once have I seen him going to Church. Strange mindset right enough.
BBC r4 tory news this lunchtime, “tory gains in Scotland mean its an endorsement against indy ref2 and for Brexit,” says nice BBC man, in his Scotland region.
The Tories gained the far right sectarian vote on Shettleston. The Loudon Bar and Bristol Bar, etc, are receptacles for the UVF/UDA mentality. McGarry’s behaviour has not helped there.
What we are seeing is Unionism deserting Labour.
When it’s done, we will see BritNat “Establishment” in much clearer silhouette. In Council elections and General Elections, Scotland will be a two horse race between the SNP and British Unionists.
The big problem is the BritNats have media to reach out and “massage” public opinion. We don’t.
Our politicians, MP’s and MSP’s seem thoroughly grateful for a seat on the Question Time panel on the BBC, the same BBC which doesn’t even report the Anthrax letter bombs being sent to our SNP MSP’s.
Just had a thought. What if the government let local candidates dictate policy in their own area ? Settleston could therefore allow the abolition of bus and travel passes for local residents It could allow the bedroom tax to be fully implemented and tuition fees for local kids. No school meals for free. What about it Settleston ? You up for that ?
A bit tongue in cheek but how much do they take for granted ?
Aberdeen City. The SNP have increased the vote 3 more, but overall the unionist can still out vote them and take control of the City again. Voters still do not know to rank the preference. Labour vote has gone over to Tories. How could they? The STV system has done it’s work as usual back to square one. The deck chairs have just changed. Another unrepresentative, ignorant, useless administration. Just ridiculous.
SKy MSM are still not acknowledging the STV system and not comparing like with like. Liars. If is so annoying.
BBC Scotland on-line:
“Aberdeen – final result
The SNP has become the largest party
Posted at
13:12
On Aberdeen City Council, Labour is leapfrogged by the SNP.
But the Conservatives made the largest gains.
The final results show the SNP on 19, up 3 on 2012.
Labour lost nine of their 18 seats.
The Conservatives went from three to 11.
The Lid Dems went from five to four.
The previous administration was a Labour/Conservative alliance.”
Please somebody tell the BBC it is improper English to begin a sentence wit “but”.
I just read tweet from Tommy Shephard who thinks SNP have biggest vote count in Edinburgh. Looks like Edinburgh could be about to fall to the SNP.
With Glasgow no longer under Tory Lite control then you’d think THESE would be the BIG stories of the election but don’t panic they won’t be. The Conservative Broadcasting Corporation will ensure it’s all SNP BAAAAD news 24/7 for days if not weeks to come!
As we have hoped for years – it’s Scotland v the Tories from now on – they have delivered it for us.
@Breeks,
The Unionist vote was never really with the Labour party – they saw it only as a means to keep the SNP out of power.
As recently as 15-20 years ago, the grandater if the Orange lodge was telling it’s members that a vote for the SNP is a “Catholic Vote”.
For as long as there was no chance of a Tory winning, they either did not care about voting or they would vote Labour.
I know some of these bigots, have known them and their ilk all of my life and they are nothing but poison (both the orange and green ones btw), but it is plain that the Unionist vote has co-alesced around the Tories.
Either we win the independence vote this time round or it could well be a generation before we see independance.
BBC r4 tory news this lunchtime, Laura K explains, indy ref 2 declaration by impudent Nicola Sturgeon has, “sent Scots rushing into the polling booth to vote for popular Ruth Davidson!”
I UKOK BBC shit you not.
Aye, as predicted, it’s now a straight battle between two groups: pro-indy and anti-indy. From now on every election will be a referendum – until Scotland regains its independence. Choice a lot clearer now for all people in Scotland.
I see this as the battle lines being drawn. It’s no bad thing for people to see what’s at stake if they don’t turn out to vote.
Heh, tories doing a job of work today. Helping to coalesce and identify their voter demographic for everyone to see. Oh, and now they have duly elected cooncil representatives, they’re going to have to deal with real live cooncil issues.
Shame they weren’t too clear on local issues whilst campaigning, but a number of them have got the job now. So how trying to stop a referendum (which is going to happen anyway) squares with a local pot hole, dog shit on pavement, signage, planning permission, drainage, etc, etc problem I’m no quite sure. Still, they’ll ‘wing’ it and work it out as they go along, right?
🙂
‘I believe we’ll win a second independence referendum.’
We hear what you say Stuart and I’m sure we shall give some cosideration to the likelyhood of this.
But we will wait to hear what Wee Johnny’Bag’Mcteirnan has to say on the matter before we take a stance.Thanks very much all the same.
I know it’s a common sentiment but I’m really despairing at impoverished areas voting Tory. It disheartens me the most. It just goes to show the barrage of media lies/slants/contrarian shtick works. Regular people can b corralled into damaging beliefs and fight staunchly for them.
The road to a peaceful and wealthy existence is rocky, paved with the unfortunate, and most depressingly of all – uncertain.
SKy discussing transferable vote system for Mayoral elections but no mention of the STV, D’Hondt system in Scotland. Introduced by Unionists to benefit them and stop the SNP getting a rightful majority. An absolute disgrace. People still do not know to rank candidates. Ist preference votes going in the bin.
Playing down reality whilst playing up fantasy is exactly what the BBC are doing LA. That’s there function in reporting anything political from Scotland. No balance. Look how they buried GE15? This a doddle for them today.
Why don’t ignorant MSM explain the STV and D’Hondt system. Useless imcompetents.
@Arbroath1320
Yikes. If only there had been pictures on the ballot paper…
According to the courier reporters the Libdems aren’t doing too well in Fife, good.
Still cannot understand the mind set of these so called Labour voters are who going over the Tories, if I had my way I would allow the to suffer the full impact of Tory policies.
After all, no matter what excuses they peddle, that’s what they are voting for.
I agree with that K1.
This is the reason I no longer refer to the BBC as the BBC. I now call them out for what they really are … the Conservative Broadcasting Corporation, CBC for short.
Ward 16 – Howe of Fife and Tay Coast
Andy Heer, Con
Donald Lothian, Lib Dem
David MacDiarmid, SNP
#LG17Fife
That’s mine. About the same.
@ Bill McDermott 1:19 pm
What worries me , looking at the results in the NE is that the Tory in almost every case has been elected at stage 1.
I noticed that too but in almost every case, the SNP were fielding two or more candidates and the Tories only one. Perhaps with the STV system it means that you gain seats further down the line if you don’t have one candidate soaking up all the votes to get in on round 1.
GE in June is FPTP so we’ll have to look at percentages. James Kelly tweeted earlier that the Tories were only on 25% of the vote. That might change but 25% is fine with me if they are representing the Unionist vote.
Is there anyone here on Wings who is close to things on the ground either in Shettleston or Ferguslie Park? Did the Tories play any of their sectarian cards? Of course all you need to do is flourish a union jack and whistle a jaunty tune and the positives of free-market capitalism become crystal clear.
And who do we have to thank for the inculcation of so much self-harming intolerance?
OT from Rev’s twitter.
Paul Johnson is pointing out the potential influence on one’s sense of group loyalty, that total income can have.
Poverty is a very complex problem to understand, though “relative” poverty is a well understood concept. Historically, the theoretical appreciation of poverty has deepened with the introduction of an understanding of the spatial dimension to the causes and effects of poverty, which isn’t distributed evenly throughout the UK.
In general, and from rusty memory, England has more densely concentrated pockets of multiple deprivation than Scotland, so experiences more relative poverty and social polarisation. Conversely, Scotland enjoys a more broadly based structural poverty. We just don’t have the tools or liberty to unlock our potential.
Wonder how that will evolve now that it’s looking like a square go with the Tories. 🙂
That’s BBC Radio 2 just reported Labour losing Glasgow without saying who won. No mention of SNP at all.
I want to ask a question around the number of seats. With SNP having 19, can they form an administration? Or is it likely that the unionist parties with collaborate to gain overall control? Not sure how it works so would appreciate some feedback. I know that certain parties have said they won’t work together so will be interested to see the outcome.
ABERDEEN
No Overall Control HOLD
CON: 11 // LAB: 9 // LIB: 4 // SNP: 19 // GREEN: 0 // OTHER: 2
Oh my giddy aunt Conan.
That thought is too vomit inducing to even think about. 😀
If nothing else, I think it goes to show that having all of the TV news media and 99% of the print media on your side, can be quite helpful.
SOMETHING VERY FISHY
I have been concerned for sometime now, that the Tank Driver was playing a very dangerous and worrying game with parts of Scottish Society with particular reference to West Central Scotland and other old industrial areas. People who are of my vintage will remember back in the 50’s that it was the bowler-hat brigade of the Conservative & UNIONIST Party who used to rule Scotland, commanding the votes of a large percentage of industrial workers and not the Labour Party.
What now seems to be happening is that a large number of Labour voters, who if they lived in say Belfast would be voting for the Ulster Unionists and not a Party more aligned to the rights of workers. It is still too early to see just how widespread this phoney Conservative & UNIONIST revival actually is especially in the case of Ferguslie Park where the cuts inflicted by the heartless Tories probably have been felt the hardest.
For traditional Labour supporters I would encourage you that now is the time to think seriously about switching your allegiance to the SNP, for it is with the SNP that you will stand the best chance of achieving the type of socially just Scottish society that we all want to see and that now will only come about when we consign the Westminster, heartless Conservative & UNIONISTS to the midden – their true home.
Finally to the Fib/Dems after their usual trumpeting of wondrous happenings, it would seem to be continuing to charge-on at high speed – IN REVERSE. Like Scottish Labour I would also encourage them to consider where they actually want to see Scotland’s future.
What is it with some deprived areas and self-harming. Heroin i can understand, but voting Tory?
I’ve said all along this dialectcal process was necessary to enable us to clear the decks for the final battle:Scottish Self determination I.e. Independence versus the Tories and their ragged arsed orange scum support.
The contradictions are finally working themselves out: the decentand open minded and selfless versus the greedy and the bigoted and servile.
The absurdity of poverty stricken so-called prods voting for even more selfabasement will become clear as May and her fascist little Englanders drag us into the abyss of global Britain and it’s low wage tax haven hell.
All I can say is : fuck you all you stupid treacherous bastards!
Tories vote for labour and labour for Tory.
Independents take from SNP due to tactical voting.
North Ayrshire SNP need to rethink their tactics but GE will be different. Higher % will vote and labour Tory can’t swop votes
I’d imagine Lab and con will join to ensure snp don’t have overall control maureen. Unless the libdems join wi snp, that ain’t going to happen, it’s unionists versus independence for the foreseeable and depending on the mix in all councils? Not enough info.so far to call it but it seems to me cons, if they have greater number of councillors in a given ward they can join with any other unionists to block snp across the board. Only other scenario will depend on Greens combining with snp to rprevrnt any potential unioinist coalition.
Delighted tae be corrected forcefully on this? 🙁
SNP have lost Perth and Kinross to the Tories 17 Tories elected most at position 1 and 11 SNP with many at 8th transfer. This is a bad omen for Pete Wishart at GE17
Patricia Gibson is also good candidate.
@Macart says: 5 May, 2017 at 12:39 pm:
“Pretty much what I’m seeing.
Wonder how Labour feels today about hitching their team to a Conservative wagon for the past few years? Wonder if today they’re thinking ‘yeah, definitely worth it’?”
Am I wrong in thinking it was yourself, Macart, who said something along the lines of, “Why would unionist voters choose Red Tories when they can have the real blue item for the same price”?
@Breeks
Aye just oathed at the BBC on the computer there for the same thing. It’s the way they tell em! 🙂
Lots of hung ‘no overall controls’ and bargaining to be done.
Labour and Tory better together cooncils?
Shurley Deputy Dog won’t condone sic a thing. 🙂
Still cannot understand the mind set of these so called Labour voters are who going over the Tories, if I had my way I would allow the to suffer the full impact of Tory policies.
After all, no matter what excuses they peddle, that’s what they are voting for.”
No they are voting for their nation of Great Britain, their national id. Its that simple.
And Its all that we’ve heard for ages now, pouring out of Pacific Quay, Scotland’s shite, SNP are worse than shite, Scots are shite, rule Britannia, god save the queen.
ALl of it absolutely nothing to do with our actual daily lives but pretty fundamentalist UKOK stuff.
BBC led media are not playing a game in Scotland. Their high paid jobs exist purely to destroy Scottish democracy and maintain this lovely union. Pacific Quay is stuffed with the most ferocious tory yoons they can get and they’re not going to go without wreaking havoc.
The third way is dead. Labour and all their mischievous crap about more powers, further devolution, federal UK, etc etc have all but disappeared.
From now on it’s SNP versus Tories, social democrats versus far right, Indy versus Cliff-Jump Brexit, Holyrood versus Westminster.
If we don’t chose Indy under those circumstances, then we are definitely ‘too stupid’.
As a former candidate(failed) in this election I was surprised at the body language,reactions and the words spoken by the voters together with the behaviour of the SNP.
For me now the only thing is an Independent Scotland preferably without the SNP.
I can no longer support my current MSP and I’m at a loss as what to do next month
@FifeCouncil
Ward 9 – Burntisland, Kinghorn and Western Kirkcaldy – Lesley Backhouse, SNP, Gordon Langlands, Labour, Kathleen Leslie, Cons #LG17Fife
With only one Tory on the ballot I was afraid this would happen. She was written up in the Courier for her vile social media posts and people voted for her!
FFS Midlothian. You aren’t even Conservative but elected 5 new Tories. Thwarted Labour unionists having a last wave of the union flag. Hope they remove your expensive home care you nuggets.
When I saw the result from Ward 4 in Renfrewshire, I was stunned. A Tory in Ferguslie Park. However, when I saw the name, I wondered if there had been some skullduggery. John McIntyre was an independent, in the literature I’d seen. Checked the list of candidates for ward 4 -:
MCINTYRE John Scottish Conservative and Unionist
MCINTYRE John Goudie Independent
Could that have gone in his favour?
@stonefree
If it didn’t matter so much, I’d say support whatever party may be closest to your own beliefs. In a two party race between SNP and Tory however, as an independence supporter, there’s no question for me at all. Plenty of time for differentiated politics after that goal is achieved.
Hope parties and candidates are on the “spoiled” ballot case. Given in previous elections valid ballots were being rejected for not being completely numbered, when Labour were in charge, it’s not impossible a similar strategy of deliberately “mistakenly” rejecting ballots with only a single X is being employed.
Looks like it’s a lovely day for a walk- with a few flutes and drums thrown in for good measure.
@ Hamish100 at 2:17 pm
Seriously??
threetowscomment forum it’s really dead but interesting
I see the brainfuckwits in Ravenscraig have elected a TORY Councillor.
I’m a bit fuzzy with my history but perhaps someone out there can help me here. Was there not a major PROFITABLE Steel plant somewhere near Ravenscraig?
I wonder how the Steel plant is doing these days, it must be doing great if a TORY has been elected in the Ravenscraig Ward methinks.
@Capella says: 5 May, 2017 at 12:42 pm:
“BBC are spinning so hard their plates are about to fly off.”
It really is quite funny in a tragic way, Capella.
The BBC text report on Clackmannanshire has a headline of, “Clackmannanshire gains for Conservatives.”
And the first few words in the item are, “The SNP have become the largest party in Clackmannanshire”.
Not too difficult to sus out the BBC ligger who wrote the item’s mind-set, is it?
After all if you are a BBC gimp you must get your priorities correct.
stonefree says:
5 May, 2017 at 2:25 pm
As a former candidate(failed) in this election I was surprised at the body language,reactions and the words spoken by the voters together with the behaviour of the SNP.
For me now the only thing is an Independent Scotland preferably without the SNP.”
Its NOT a chicken and egg which came first conundrum though. Can you be more specific on SNP behaviour that’s put you off?
@Robert Peffers
It’s a commonly reused phrase Robert. I’ve almost certainly said something similar in a past comment, but can’t claim ownership by any means.
Working out quite neatly in many respects at the moment. Today Ruth loses her Labour human shield. When the next referendum arrives, the Tories can’t use Labour to front their agenda and take the pelters now.
Ruth’ll have to stand front and centre in the next indyref.
Scotland against the Tories.
So… The story so far: the SNP has held, even gained some, Slab is toast, eaten by Tories.
It seems to me that there are going to be a swathe of local councils where the SNP will be the biggest party but SLab and tory will band toghether to deny the largest party. The SNP needs the help of the Greens and especially the “independents” (many of whom are former or shy Slab/tory).
In my country, the party with the most council seats gets first dibs at forming an administration – usually a coalition of of 2-4 parties – but the way Scottish politics has been polarised (by the press) in the past few years, it’s going to be Con/Lab administrations even in areas where the SNP was the voters first preference.
Hopefully this democratic outrage will translate to a good SNP vote in the GE, and later on in the indyref.
Glad to see Willie Young bite the dust in Aberdeen.
However I have a major worry. I voted till I boaked, and put the Tory down at the bottom as preference 8. A Tory got in on my ward after the eigths reallocation of votes. If all the SNP supporters had put the Green third he would have walked it. The unionists seem better at tactical voting than I am.
Why else would Shettleston vote for tories like,
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-is-already-blaming-brussels-for-the-failure-of-brexit-and-it-will-be-the-remainers-next-a7716361.html
if it wasnt for something so fundamental to them, they’ll give it all over to the tories?
Stu, your never normally wrong and i for one hope above everything else this comes to pass.
Cheers Stu for everything .
Independence Livestream at GLASGOW COUNT NOW. 🙂
https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/GCCResults17
How the hell can SNP lose Dundee to NOC ? There’s defo some skullduggery going on here from these orks
Motherwell SE & Ravenscraig. Interesting ward boundary – but the election of a Unionist councillor is not too surprising given the Tory party decision to turn it into a referendum vote.
Some areas of Wishaw and Motherwell are especially bitter Orange in colour. And tonight, they will be out and about the Streets of Wishaw celebrating their victory with Craigneuk True Defenders annual Blood & Thunder parade.
Strange that Frank B Roy, former republican flute band member never once saw fit to criticise these bigots.
And yet the BBC liars either fail to see the connection between the Orange order vote or choose not to see.
Ruthie on live big Auntie BBC a minute ago.
Good day for the Tories and all smiles.
Denies the Tory literature had no local issues mentioned and the ones that didn’t were… well all GE stuff really. 🙂
Sorry folks —Independence Livestream from Glasgow Count is now off-air,but earlier can be viewed here:
https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/GCCResults17/videos/155646567
Hope it works. 🙂
Stonefree
Pray tell..?
Devastated, my council ward just elected Tories 1 and 2, 1 SNP got in at final count.
I have to live among these people.
@Jack Murphy says: 5 May, 2017 at 1:30 pm:
“Please somebody tell the BBC it is improper English to begin a sentence wit “but”.
Actually, Jack, it is not ungrammatical to begin a sentence with a co-ordinated conjunction. Now I know most of us were taught at school that it is bad grammar – but it really is not so.
(emphasis is mine).
Here is the result from the ward I live in.
Ward 22 – Buckhaven, Methil and Wemyss Villages.
4 councillors to be elected.
Candidate name Party Stage elected No. of 1st Preferences
Leslie Bain Scottish National Party (SNP) 635
Keith Henry Barton Scottish Conservative and Unionist 507
Ken Caldwell Scottish National Party (SNP) 9 842
Eunice Cameron Independent 57
Stephen Ferguson Scottish Green Party 78
David Graham Scottish Labour Party 1 1,661
Ronald Hunter Independent 137
John O’Brien Scottish National Party (SNP) 9 991
Rory Roberson Scottish Liberal Democrats 62
Ryan Smart Scottish Labour Party 7 498
Winning Candidates.
•Ken Caldwell, Scottish National Party (SNP)
•David Graham, Scottish Labour Party
•John O’Brien, Scottish National Party (SNP)
•Ryan Smart, Scottish Labour Party
Turnout: 40.8%
The previous make up of this ward was two Lab Cllrs,
1 independent and 1 SNP John O’Brien.
while it would have been great to have seen all three SNP candidates elected, I always thought that was extremely unlikely to happen in this area where we still have a residue of OO around as well.
The scotory manifesto had something about centralising the upkeep of roads. Now that might mean some sharing of resources between councils. Or it might mean that pot holes and other money intensive tasks that should be paid for out of local budgets will be abrogated by conservative run councils and passed back to Holyrood.
Anything that might mean rural more conservative leaning councils are at a disadvantage as far as the size of their road network per head of population so they’d have to increase their council tax will be palmed of on Scotland as a whole.
Aberdeenshire now has the Tories as the largest group, up 6 from pre-election. SNP down 6.
Oddly, the numbers don’t seem to tally with Wikipedia’s listing for previous council. The Liberals have gained 5 but from where? Independents are 2 down and Labour 1 down.
So there are 2 seats extra from somewhere. No doubt there is a perfectly straightforward explanation.
Conservatives 23 + 6
SNP 20 – 6
Liberal Democrats 14 + 5
Independent 10 – 2
Labour 1 – 1
Scottish Greens 1 N/C
Shit, we’ve elected the LibDem we kicked out last time. He will use council resources to send us ‘newsheets’ with endless shots of him crouched in concern beside the most minor road defects on tiny, even cul-de-sac streets and beside street signs slightly the worse for wear as though these are the most pressing issues, even at local level.
I wonder, since he replaced a Labour nonentity, if Remain No voters chose him for that reason. I put him below the SLABber at 5 and 6, just above both Tories and the Kipper.
Sadly the Tories got elected long before things got down to the 7th and 8th round so voting till we boaked had no effect here.
Damn! It seems the SNP are losing some seats.
Winning some, losing some, mostly holding (which is disappointing but expexted.)
The major point is that the unionist vote has coalesced with the tories, so, yes, their dishonest campaign has paid off. Big time. But it should be noted that most of this”tory surge” is off Labour’ back, not the SNP’s. HC unionist have just shifted from Slab to tory.
The shift in Scotland’s political landscape, brewing since, or even before, 1990 and especially since 2007, now sees its logical conclusion. Scotland or union.
I just wish those tory voters in Ferguslie Park get to know all the full implications of voting for tory, the Queen, prince Philip and the Empire.
And yet the BBC liars either fail to see the connection between the Orange order vote or choose not to see.”
Useful idiots. Keep in mind, all of this SNP bad, “vote UKOK tory Ruth” herculean BBC Scotland led effort, is all for those Scots etc living down those leafy drives of Scotland, the middle and upper classes, who lets face it, under tory Westminster, red and blue, really have never had it so good.
For example, giant debt, national and local, thanks again ex ACC Finance Convener Sir Wullie Young, only affects the poorest, so its fine. The trick is getting them to vote tory, and BBC Scotland will have had a massive morale boost today.
It is nice down these leafy drives too, every year, its gets better and UKOK better. Vote tory.
Any turnout figures?
Perhaps a big effect has been the Tories being better at getting their supporters out!
Robbo,
The Orange vote transferred from Labour to Tory. Lets rename The Scottish Conservative Party to the Unionist(F**k the Pope) Party. They might as well have the OO carry batons at their party rallies from now on. Let’s call them the Orange Shirts, or the Storm Battalions. Ruth Davidson is coalescing Reactionary bigots(I hate Nationalists/Catholics/Muslims/Jews/Europeans/Blacks etc) around her, and paradoxically considering her “values” probably Homophobes as well. Another way to look at it, if your a bigot/scum/antisocial/trash in Scotland then you are likely to have voted Tory. We, including your good self, are the voice of reason. All the mad dogs have voted tory.
Take a chill pill folks.
It’s all good.
It’s best to know for sure what’s in front of you.
This is just an element of the perfect storm that’s brewing.
I for one am smiling.
@Dave McEwan Hill says: 5 May, 2017 at 1:32 pm:
“As we have hoped for years – it’s Scotland v the Tories from now on – they have delivered it for us.”
I’ll agree with you on that score, Dave. There is nothing like stark contrast to emphasise a difference in political attitudes.
Just imagine how Nicola scored so heavily against Ms R. Harrison over Ruthie’s R@pe clause abuses.
The Tories aka unionists tactically voted till they boaked though. Ergo…ergo..
It’s looking very much like ‘we’ didn’t vote en masse, which is effective, not so if not enough of ‘us’ did not. The Tories clearly did.
The thing to look at is how many Conservative gains were due to increased first preferences or were via transfers from Labour. STV certainly gives more scope for genuine tactical voting.
It’s BBC propaganda telling us the Tories have more seats than they actually won. I’m sick of the BBC, where can we get the actual unbiased results?
@Macart says: 5 May, 2017 at 1:42 pm:
“Heh, tories doing a job of work today. Helping to coalesce and identify their voter demographic for everyone to see. Oh, and now they have duly elected cooncil representatives, they’re going to have to deal with real live cooncil issues.”
Yup!, Macart. They will have to roll up their sleeves and get down and dirty – doing the day job.
Update – Aberdeenshire Council have corrected their tally. Conservatives still on 23 seats but SNP now on 21 seats.
Still one more seat to account for – or more likely to subtract from somebody’s score.
From the BBC News Site regards Edinburgh Council Vote
“Former Scotsman editor John McLellan has been elected as a Conservative councillor in the Craigentinny/Duddingston ward.”
a) I didn’t even know he was standing.
b) Sums up the Scotsman and the Media doesn’t it.
I feel like this has been a pretty bad day for the independence movement.
Do you ever feel like it’s not fair that the Tories and Labour get to play dirty all the time and the SNP and Greens try to be all squeaky clean and it gets them nowhere.
Labour going on about how a vote for the SNP in the council elections would see you lose your buspass and the Tories making it all about Independence.
On another note, if there wasn’t a bloody General Election coming up in a few weeks time I’d expect KD to be resigning as leader of the labour party.
@The Dog philosopher,
I worked many years in settleston and east Glasgow. Settleston has a very large number of unionist / loyalist dwellings. If you remember groups like kombat 18, they are from Settleston.
Several residents are former UFF/ Uvf associates now involved with drug dealing in the area. They are voting for the Union at any cost to themselves, and no doubt there will have been some paid or coerced into voting Tory. Make no mistake it is a very very Lodge orientated area.
Fife Result.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/e344fa43-a837-4187-967a-ad180ab31cf2/fife-council
Update 2 – Aberdeenshire Council now has 70 councillors. Up 2 from 2012. Who knew ? – not me. So the Unionists will certainly combine to take control.
Stating the obvious but it’s a General election next.
Tory can’t vote for labour to knock SNP out nor can labour so likewise for Tories.
It ain’t a by-election.
After winning the GE vote in Scotland SNP should review its selection process for local government. Too much mini empire building by local MSP’s in some areas. They need to be brought into line.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING is more important than this countries Independence.
@Breeks says: 5 May, 2017 at 2:03 pm:
“That’s BBC Radio 2 just reported Labour losing Glasgow without saying who won. No mention of SNP at all.”
That’s because the SNP have not, as yet, won overall control.
There’s going to be lots of high jinks in the very near future. Let’s see just who goes into coalition with who.
A few more failing cooncils with Tory/Labour coalitions in control and SNP in opposition will open a great many eyes.
@lumilumi
Not to worry lumi, it’s working out quite as expected. And as it happens was in fact quite necessary. Labour has collapsed due to Tory tactical voting and the SNP have pretty much stood firm.
Ruth must now own front and centre position as leading the political front of BT in Scotland. No more hiding behind Labour awaiting the first opportunity to knife them in the back. They’ve pretty much done all they can do to Labour.
As for those one time Labour voters who rushed to support Conservative candidates in Scotland?
What can you say? (shrugs)
They’ve freely chosen to support them. Nobody forced them.
Now they just have to live with it.
Labour will need their heads tested if they just throw their lot in with the Tories but it may do the SNP no harm for June 8th if they do.
I read a rubbish candidate had been elected in Ayrshire. Imagine my surprise to find she wasn’t in any of the tory parties.
Damnation, chill out about Ferguslie voting in one Tory councillor.
HE ONLY GOT 657 VOTES!
That is, he only got 13.17% of the vote.
Imagine if Scotland’s Tory vote in June’s General Election was that low…
bugsbunny says:
5 May, 2017 at 3:11 pm
Robbo,
The Orange vote transferred from Labour to Tory. Lets rename The Scottish Conservative Party to the Unionist(F**k the Pope) Party. They might as well have the OO carry batons at their party rallies from now on. Let’s call them the Orange Shirts, or the Storm Battalions. Ruth Davidson is coalescing Reactionary bigots(I hate Nationalists/Catholics/Muslims/Jews/Europeans/Blacks etc) around her, and paradoxically considering her “values” probably Homophobes as well. Another way to look at it, if your a bigot/scum/antisocial/trash in Scotland then you are likely to have voted Tory. We, including your good self, are the voice of reason. All the mad dogs have voted tory.
Yes, all pretty sad.What’s even sadder if these tories down south could see the knuckle dragging orcs that voted for them i wonder if they would be proud of themselves! They’ll be touting this as some sort of bowler hat brigade resurgence in Scotland and patting themselves on the back. What a bush of fecking wasters that pug face Davidson has behind her peddling this bigoted shite!
Even the rape clause couldn’t get through to these dumb fecks orcs(just bigotry matters to them) -and they’ll pay the price being the ones most likely to claim benefits in the likes of Shettleston and the other one that they should never have won in the month of Sunday’s
BBC live updates are all over the place. See at 15:04 quotes Aberdeenshire Council with very odd figures to amplify the Tory effort. Also says that the Greens lost their only seat. But they didn’t. Martin Ford re-elected. Somebody’s got the wrong script.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/8201e79d-41c0-48f1-b15c-d7043ac30517/scotland-local-elections-2017
I was at a count and listened to labour and Tories discussing the SNP have only one policy nonesense. Labour guy walked off with his mate still greetin. Tory smiled. Labour has been played by the Tories and they still don’t see it.
I will be interested in the number of Tory postal votes that were already in the bag. Let’s check against holiday homes and known cadavers!
Is Dugdale standing down?
Is Corbyn?
No? Success is just around the corner.
Can somebody answer…Does the tories, labour and libdems (hatred of the SNP) all marking the SNP candidate last whereas only the SNP voters marking the tory last make it inevitably more heavily biased against the SNP candidates?
@stonefree says: 5 May, 2017 at 2:25 pm:
“For me now the only thing is an Independent Scotland preferably without the SNP.
I can no longer support my current MSP and I’m at a loss as what to do next month.”
Och! Just follow your heart and vote Tory as you always really wanted to do anyway.
Hamish 100 is right. No votes in the next Referendum for non Scottish Domicile Students and holiday home owners. I thought plural voting was abolished in 1949?
A TORY elected in the CALTON – that has to be the ultimate example of gentrification, or, a parrallel universe or something.
That strange whirring noise is Matt McGinn burlin’ in his grave.
Forgive the Braveheart reference. Great film, but nonsense historically.
The bit in the film where Robert the Bruce is shown to be standing with Longashanks at Falkirk.
The next battle is Bannockburn. The Bruce realises that trying to play both sides doesn’t work and goes all out for Indy. Labour voters in Scotland are at the Bruce stage before Bannockburn.
Scottish Unionist Sectarian Party SUSP v Scottish National Party SNP
Fight!
Doug says:
5 May, 2017 at 3:19 pm
“”From the BBC News Site regards Edinburgh Council Vote
“Former Scotsman editor John McLellan has been elected as a Conservative councillor in the Craigentinny/Duddingston ward.”
a) I didn’t even know he was standing.
b) Sums up the Scotsman and the Media doesn’t it.””
…………
He writes a column for the Herald now I believe. Or someone with the same name and party affiliations does.
Robert,
You can see through all these “plastic” Nationalists at 100 yards. More power to your voice of sanity and reason.
Kinda feels a bit Soylent Greenish in some places in Scotland just now with some of the results that are coming in …….
@stonefree
So how do you propose to achieve Independence without the SNP
I’ll look forward to you not being able to answer that
To all you red tories who voted blue tory. I hope your lifes are made even more miserable than they are now. In spades. I’ll laugh my b***ocks off
@So rates McSporran,
Not really, large parts of the Calton population have been relocated to schemes and the current boundaries include Bridgeton which I think you will know is not just unionist, but staunch Orange Lodge. Just reaffirms battle lines now being drawn on the future.
Dr jim 3.46. You got that absolutely right
How the hell do we persuade those who are willing to vote for the extreme Tories rather than opt for an independent country? I’m beginning to lose the will to live.
Would it be awfully naughty to suggest the SNP SG decide to fully pass on ALL Tory WM cuts to ALL TORY/LAB coalition councils who freeze out the biggest party (SNP)?
A sort of…”you voted for it….you got it” !!
@Robert Peffers says:@5 May, 2017 at 3:05 pm
@Jack Murphy says: 5 May, 2017 at 1:30 pm:
=================
Very true. To add to your point, I remember I remember once being told that that usage though correct grammar was bad style. However even that is not always true and really referred to an old fashioned idea of what was good style. It can be used and be both perfectly good grammar and good style also. Depends on context.
Sky News reporting that if council results are extrapolated to a GE result, the SNP would win 54 seats next month.
Tory majority of 48 forecast.
With one ward still to declare – it’s Larkhall folks – clear that SNP will be largest party in SLC, after decades of Labour diktat. But will we get a BT coalition? They red/blue/orange mob need one seat from Larkie to rule together…
Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen, SNP the largest party.
This is extremely good news for the forthcoming referendum on independence.
FM arrives at Glasgow count with Susan Aitken (GCC SNPLeader) to announce they will form an administration in Glasgow.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BraidenHT/status/860508177523191808?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eveningtimes.co.uk%2F%2Fnews%2F15267234.Council_election_results_2017__Follow_our_reporters_who_are_live_at_the_counts%2F
First minister & GCC SNP leader Susan Aitken arrive & announce they will form an administration in Glasgow
Largest party in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dundee 2017: SNP
From WoS twitter.
@stonefree
If you truly want an independent Scotland, then you just have to bite the bullet and vote for SNP now. With the results going the way they are in England, it’s patently clear that the choice now is Scottish Independence, or long-time Tory rule from Westminster.
The SNP is the only vehicle that can deliver independence, so the choice is yours.
Aye Snap! 🙂
correction – they (the UJ party) have joint control at SLC, with 3 seats to be declared
Breaking –
Sky news vote projections puts SNP on 54 seats
For general election – Tory presenter fizzin !
Trying his best to get professor to change his mind.
What a laugh?
We did it, we wiped the red Tories out of Glasgow, my sole wish on the 19th September was for labour to be wiped from the political map of Scotland. As scunnered as ah am by today’s results, this was always the inevitable landscape that would emerge if we took out Labour.
Looks like we’re going to be fine for Westminster next month too. SNP’s vote has in no way ‘collapsed’ on the contrary it’s looking very ‘stable and strong’.
GIRUTFLOT!
Chins up everybody. It is OK to vote for the Tories whilst you are sheltered from their extreme policies. When you are not sheltered that is a different story. The severity of Brexit has barely started yet. It will focus minds.
One thing that amazes me is how a Labour voter with apparent Socialist principles, can readily discard them at the ballot box to vote for the most extreme right wing government of my time. Makes you wonder.
The areas I have seen turn Tory thus far do not surprise me at all to be honest. They have history. I think back to the 1950’s and 60’s
I must at some point count the total votes cast across Scotland for each party. That would be informative.
It is fantastic to see the SNP largest party in the main cities.
But we must NOT be complacent in the run up to next month.
Can’t get my head around poor areas in Glasgow voting Tory, could this just be hardcore ‘Rangers’ fans and Elderly people?
This election has finally cleared the decks with labour oot the fucking way.
It is now going to be clear to everyone its either:
SNP or Tory, SCOTLAND or Westminster – so choose.
And lets take it all the way, 59 seats up for grabs at Westminster, lets take the 59 and show these unionists earse-lickers, this is our country, not the Tories.
The numbers of votes still seem small, certainly in comparison with GE numbers.
Get out the vote for the GE.
The ulsterisation of Scottish politics, but any violence (and lets be honest – the association with Ulster is one of a history of bitter division leading to violent conflict) resulting will ‘horrify’ the Tories, who wil wash their lilly white hands of it, and condemn the ‘separatists’.
I can already hear Ruth Harrison say the word “appalled” in that special tone of voice – you know the one, indignant hypocrisy.
The cynicism of it disgusts me.
As for those lifelong ‘Labour’ men and women who voted Tory?
When the iceberg hits you fools will not have a spot in the lifeboats. Good luck with that.
For once, i cannot put it better than my best friend has.
“What’s happening is now clear. The SNP WILL be the largest party.
But this is a Tory rise, with Unionists replacing Labour wholesale.
EXPECT THE SAME PATTERN IN THE GE17.
However, reason to stay cheerful? This is – undoubtedly – PEAK TORY.
It’s not a ‘resurgence’ – it’s a ‘replacement
It’s not a win for the Tories, it’s a peak showing of unionism”.
Well said Paul Wilson.
Fudgefase says:
“I’m not an idiot but that voting system is far, far too complicated.”
I can sympathise with this, having just witnessed the counting of the ballot papers in Dundee!
So many wasted SNP votes because some people placed two crosses in the boxes instead of SNP 1&2, hard to say whether it would have made any difference to the eventual result, but so frustrating nevertheless!
Far too many voting systems in such a short period of time, it’s little wonder that people were confused! STV is such a complicated, albeit supposedly fairer system, and far too complicated to easily explain in a quick simple way!
Feck, people struggled with the Holyrood voting system with the concept of constituency and list seats, STV was just too much for some people, especially when conflicting views were expressed as to how much of the paper should actually be filled in ie: “vote till you boak” or SNP 1&2, the advice from SNP, which I’d hate to think may have worked against them!
I think we’ve been so spoilt with electoral success in recent years that we might not see this emerging result as a good one for the SNP.
Not only have we won seats and quite possibly control of councils that we could only dream of only a few years ago, we also have a position of clarity where people can see who the enemy is. The Labour party are no longer confusing the issue.
Looking forward now to the post mortem. Prediction is that SNP will take 54 seats in the GE. That’s a good base to start from.
The BBC record of results isn’t reliable. They are certainly wrong on the Aberdeenshire tally. So a bit of caution on the part of the Tories would be warranted. Perhaps Labour will now waken up and join a progressive alliance against the Tories. It’s their only hope.
Has anyone heard from Kezia?
Kezia on live as I press the keys saying the results are really bad for the SNP and for the Independence ref 2.
The fact that ‘Scottish’ Labour are wiped out seems to have been overlooked by her.
Kez! “Tomorrow is another day”
I canvassed. It’s not all Labour switching to the tories. Some former SNP went Tory cos they don’t like the EU. Or refuges – I kid you not – some said that Nicola is too nice to them. Some didn’t even know who ran their own council – I live in a unionist coalition one and they were blaming the SNP for Labour decisions and were genuinely surprised that it was not the SNP.
However I think the tories might have gobbled up the remaining brexit brendas and bills who don’t like the EU and some more labour unionists. On the plus side we have gained quite a few more knowledgeable and more tolerant supporters who are more likely to vote and to canvass. So it’s a fair swap.
We have already got the mandate for a second referendum in the bag. Let the Tories be the only party to campaign in the General election on No to a second referendum. And if they even reach the giddy hieghts of 33% of the vote well that falls way short of 50% – doesn’t it? Hoisted by their own petard.
We will win indyref 2
As the dust begins to settle it’s a good result for the SNP. The britnat media will of course concentrate on blue-tory gains without explaining it’s mostly at the expense of the red-tories, but that’s what we all expected.
Quietly confident about the GE.
Oh fff…. Now it’s seemining the SNP are losing seats. Not nearly as much as slab but though… The toxic tories are the big gainers.
Boak. Prepare for non-stop MSM/BBC coverage of untRuth Davidson’s grinning, smug face. It fits the right-wing pro-Brexit one-nation narrative. The fact that the SNP will have been the biggest party in several councils does not matter because the labs and tories can work together to thwart any positive SNP initiative and then blame the SNP. Democracy UK style.
In my country (with a fully PR system), most councils are “no overall control”, so the biggest party seeks out coalition partners to run the local area to the benefit of the local people.
Right now in Scotland, politics isn’t about left/right, it’s indy/union, and the tories have played slab like a fiddle. All hardcore unionist vote, even in Ferguslie Park goes to tories. Well done, to make turkeys vote for Christmas, geese for Michaelmas etc.
It seems that the SNP are suffering some losses, and that will be highlighted in the british MSM.
The real story is labour vote going to the tories. It’s not left/rigjt (even if you assume lab was “left”), it’s indy/union, and people have to get off the fence.
“Today is going to be a day of realignment in Scottish politics, in which the Tories will formally become the main opposition to the SNP.
Everything’s different after today, folks. Scotland’s choice will never have been more stark: extreme Tories in the UK for years and years to come, or self-governance. Let the chips fall where the people choose”
In a perverse sort of way, reading this has actually cheered me up slightly, after a depressing day listening to the news of incredulous Tory gains in places I never would have imagined.
The battle lines have never now been clearer, it’s now Unionist Tories versus self determination under SNP – bring it on!!!
BBC still reporting SNP down by 17 seats. Acting like the propaganda wing of the Tory party now that Labour are down and out.
Nicola on live auntie’s tv Darn Sarf and seems pleased much to the chagrin of the BBC panel and mentions the labour demise.
A springboard for the GE.
No good for the presenter as he quotes Prof Curtis as saying the SNP had prospects of getting the control of Glasgow.
Nicola not deterred… but the presenter dishes that and her asks “What about Dundee” losing control!!
Again she says overall it’s a good result.
The panel says pish! SNP bad . 🙂
It was always thus Darn Sarf
Whats is the average turn out as BBC pundits comparing local election with previous GE and Scottish election results with clear disparity in turn out numbers.
The BBC really are the State controlled propaganda service.
@ Richardinho at 4.24
I think (hope) you’re right.
A few weeks ago I was talking to an SNP member who was wary of a clean sweep; he felt it played into the “one party state” narrative. I wasn’t sure at the time if I agreed, but I am now coming round to it.
I would still have been immensely entertained by a complete unionist (or even just SLab) wipe-out, but it wouldn’t have reflected people’s views and is unrealistic in a proportional system.
We now need to change as many of those views as possible.
Looking forward to seeing the actual percentages.
Seriously that picture Rev just retweeted wi Tompkins and his band of nutsockets? Someone should stick three dicks in their open mooths, and call it ‘A circle jerk of Tories.
Apart from fuckwit Senior are any of these fuckwits actually over 21 K1?
Just as wee kick back at the BBC perhaps we should all stop calling them the BBC and start calling them for what they really are the Conservative Broadcasting Corporation.
I’m sure we all do it every time we talk about them the message will slowly get out that the BBC is in fact Conservative media centre central control!
With Nicola gone to catch another declaration in Glasgow the BBC panel then putting the view that the FPTP system which will give the SNP 50+ seats at the GE is one thing but the share of the vote must count as well.
So independence is off or rules must change… as of course SNP are very very bad! 🙂
Well done Nicola you did very well I might have put the heid on them.
If the BBC are moving on to the GE being the decider then it follows that they’ve conceded defeat as far as any claim that the council elections signify a rejection of another referendum.
Saw commentary from Curtice about people saying that a majority in a poll said the SNP would have the right to hold another referendum if they won more than half the seats but not if they won over 50% of the votes. He seemed puzzled by that. To me though at least some of those who rejected that second criteria may have read the question as being they would only have the right if they achieved the more stringent condition. Personally I think the SNP already have that right.
Don’t be downhearted folks, all in all, not a bad day really.
Clear battle lines now drawn up, as we always knew it would be,Scotland versus the Tories. Labour swept oot wi’ the rubbish.
Poor silly wee Kez, a bad day for the SNP. Whit! Will she resign now, or get the heave ho for some other numpty that the MSM tells us we should all be feart of.
The end game draws near methinks.
Yaaasss… SNP and Greens can form a majority control of Glasgow. 😀
Will that MSM ever mention Scottish Council elections are under STV. That is why the SNP do not get an outright majority. It was designed that way. Nicola is telling them.
If it was FPTP the SNP would walk in abc have outright majority Council, Holyrood and GE. Scotland would be Independent in the EU. Another IndyRef coming.
In Aberdeen City the SNP and LibDem could form a coalition. There was one before? Especially if the LibDems realise that SNP voters ranked them above the Tories. Get the UTG Project. How to cut the debt that had been left? Hope the Scottish Gov helps out and more money is not wasted.
If Corbyn stood down in England. The Tories could get a run for their money in England/Wales. Although another Tory regime in Westminster would increase Independence votes in Scotland.
More crowing Tories in England. Puke. Conceited arrogant. Wait until Brexit sets in. When will the Police come in to arrest them for electoral fraud.
This is from a tweet 15 minutes ago.
The news you will NEVER hear from the Conservative Broadcasting Corporation.
https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/860521899092312064
Just reading on WOS Twitter that Dippy Dug is telling BBC News that the results in Scotland are “bad news for the SNP and independence.”
FFS! Is she for real? Keep up the good work you brainless gopher. How about the BBC doing some real reporting and explain to everyone how Dippy Dug is the biggest catastrophe to manage the branch office since Dim Jim.
Folks, lots of positives to be taken out of these results. One major one is that this needed to happen. Now lets see the Blue Tory scum implement all those “No Referendum Council Policies” – coming to a pot-hole near you soon. 😉
In Boxing parlance we’ve just taken a shallow cut above the left eye in the 10th round of a 12 round championship fight and up to now we’re miles ahead in the point scoring of every round. We can only throw it away if we don’t step up our game for the last 2 rounds. Bring it on!
((((( DING DING )))))
From Stu’s twitter
BBC now listing SNP as 431 seats and calling that -7. They won 425 in 2012. Reasonably sure 431 is more than 425.
Same in Aberdeenshire count. They give the wrong figures to make the SNP look bad and Tories good. Poor even by their biased standards. It is easy enough to check.
Just highlights how WoS has become the media site of choice for Scotland. Reliable.
Seven seats down.
BIG WOW!
lets give up now..
Glasgow will be Yes run from now on.
On fptp at the General, the SNP should do well on today’s results, and all the hype of a Tory resurgence today will hopefully encourage turnout then. Looking beyond the media spin, there are many grounds for optimism from today’s results, on top of the actual result itself which is obviously excellent.
Feegie Syndrome…
http://imgur.com/hVaJ7Cn
The BBC reporting… Am I the only one that thought it was gleeful tory cheerleading? Across the board, England, Cornwall, Wales, all a happy tory family. Trying to force that narrative on Scotland, where it’s patently untrue.
Laura Kuenssberg and Andrew Neil are known “proudscotbuts. Tories and unionists, fair enough. But someow their tweets and reports, misrepresented the ongoing counts in Scotland, then sending out their tory opinions as facts. That’no “impartiality” supposedly required of the national broadcaster, BBC.
Then again, reading the BBC live feed reinforced my nascent idea/thinking that the UK state is turning fascist, and I want no part. Now, if only Scotland could stay strong and honest and get the fuck out.
WTF is going on with the BBC? Deliberately reporting a gain from 424 to 431 seats as a reduction of -7.
The Guardian have calculated the SNP gain as a gain of +31?
Are there different methods to calculate the results in comparison to 2012?
Bob Mack says:
5 May, 2017 at 3:22 pm
@The Dog philosopher,
“I worked many years in settleston and east Glasgow. Settleston has a very large number of unionist/loyalist dwellings. If you remember groups like kombat 18, they are from Settleston.”
18/10/2009
THE Orange Order has vowed to mobilise its 50,000 members in Scotland to oppose the SNP at the next general election and shore up the vote to retain the Union. The staunchly sectarian group announced it would renounce its traditional dislike of the Labour Party to provide practical support for Scotland’s biggest pro-Union political force. The order will encourage its members to volunteer for election campaigns, to act as foot soldiers for unionist parties and help with everything from leafleting to licking envelopes. It will also support unionist parties with pro-Union campaigns of its own. In its strongest reaction to the rise of Scottish Nationalism yet, *Grand Master Ian Wilson said the order would do anything in its power* to save Scotland’s 302-year-old union with England, even if that meant “getting into bed with Labour”.
*Grand Master Ian” Wilson said the order would do anything in its power”*
50,000 MEMBERS…anything?
This day marks the end of Labour in Scotland. Judging by web comments it also marks the end of the bbc in Scotland. Don’t pay the bbc tax. Let britnats pay for britnat propaganda.
@
Bob Mack says:
5 May, 2017 at 4:13 pm
One thing that amazes me is how a Labour voter with apparent Socialist principles, can readily discard them at the ballot box
===========
Don’t forget there is still a fair bit of the old tribalism in many voters, especially older ones. These guys voted Labour but more as an “us v them” rather than any socialist principles. Some Labour voters have Tory like prejudices on things like immigration, unionism etc. even though it may have been counterbalanced by dislike of Tory governments actions versus the working class. Finally don’t forget the Tories have been playing the unionist card full blast and for some that is an emotional issue – one which touches a lifetime of habits and emotions which can be stronger than the logic of looking out for your own self interest. And of course (see you can use conjunctions like this) a lot of folk never bother to keep themselves informed and actually don’t realise they are voting as a form of self-harm.
Put it to them either it,s the SNP/Independence or it,s Tory rule forever more,sometimes I wish for Tory rule up here to really fcuk them up I,ts what they deserve,Jesus Christ Settleston/Calton/Feegie park returning Tories.Speaking to an acquaintance from a labour background stated he would never votefor the SNP as they put out a leaflet saying “No Poppery” here,can you believe that what a fcukng mindset,I asked him if he preferred Tory rule and he just looked at me as if I had horns.
If you rely on the BBC you’d be dispirited, which is exactly what they want of course. Yet when you look at the numbers yourself its really quite good. I’m so sick of having to look up the facts myself and not being able to rely on my own country’s media.
Been listening to Radio Scotland, they went to Emirates Arena, briefly heard Nicola’s voice and they very quickly faded it out… then we had two pundits (Tory and Lib Dem), and then Ruth Harrison saying her piece (excellent sound quality by the way). From the winning party – nothing.
There were 1227 seats up for grabs.
SNP won 36% of all seats.
Tories won 22.5% of all seats.
Labour won 21.3% of all seats.
Lib dems won 5.4% of all seats.
Independents won 14% of all seats.
Greens won 1.5% of all seats.
………
SNP MARGIN OF VICTORY WAS FUCKING MASSIVE !!
155 seat WINNING MARGIN.
The winning margin over the tories is OVER HALF the total tory seats won !!
Anyone able to project what the election result would have been if it was a FPTP Election system?
Go on…you know you want to…
Heather McLean 4.24 and others.
I’ll say it again.
A ‘voting’ system that requires explanation like the STV one is not fit for purpose.
Though it doesn’t help if some appear to have started writing in their numbers before examining the voting paper ffs.
Donkey voting, indeed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_vote
So, deep breaths everybody, and on to the GE.
Looking forward to Reporting Scotland when Jackie (Let’s call it Devo Max) Bird, headlines with Labour collapses across Scotland, and the SNP takes Glasgow from Labour. Yeah your right, I’m taking the piss.
Still not a peep on The BBC about the Flute Factor not even from Kevin McKenna.
Tom Harris has just been on as a spokesman on behalf of Labour – have they not been reading his right wing rantings on The Torygraph – how the hell he ever got selected to stand for Labour amazes me.
Well done SNP !
Getting stronger = )
What we need now is an analysis of the 1st preference vote shares in the country. Craig Murray has the Tory share at 26%. The Tories must have spent a fortune with their ‘No 2nd Referendum mailings and leaflets (no candidate names so not a council election expense. They still lost. Also low turnout in some council areas that poll well at General Elections.
I have to say I was pleasantly surprised at some of the results in Edinburgh. It used to be barren territory for the SNP, they would be lucky to get 5% in some seats in elections past. Not surprised at the loss of 2 seats in Dundee due to vote transfers but the SNP vote held up very fairly well indeed across the city. In 1982 the SNP polled 18% in the Regional Elections in Dundee East and we went on to poll 43% at the next General Election.
What happened today may not transfer to the General Election as it is a FPTP vote and a much higher turnout along with 5 weeks more exposure (of T May hiding?) of the Tories. SNP won another election today and I am sure the next one too with a lot of hard work.
Banff & Buchan. Alex Salmond was MP in the Constituency for over 30 years. Always split SNP/Tory.
SKy spin. Leave out Fact STV system in Scotland. George Parker liar. Imposed by the Unionists to stop SNP majority. Illegally.
Can’t wait till SNP get a majority in Holyrood and change to FPTP. Although Scotland could be Independent in the EU before then.
Why no shortbread BBC panel dissecting the results and having a Pacific Quay chat with big Brian Glen and Jackie etal.
We had to rely on the darn Sarf BBC to cover all the bases for us in Scotland.
Is this BBC policy for the too wee and too stupid folk in North Britain. I thought that was all to change.
Old news reminder:
A SOCIAL media storm blew up yesterday after Donalda MacKinnon, the new director of BBC Scotland, admitted that it had lost the trust of “a significant number” of people during the independence referendum.
In a wide-ranging interview, BBC Scotland’s most senior editorial figure told The National that (BBC Scotland)still had work to do to regain that trust.
Donalda McKinnon pledged to look at how it could ensure that more of the licence fee cash raised in Scotland is spent here, after a report put the total at 55 per cent, compared to 74 per cent in Ireland, 95 per cent in Wales and more than 100 per cent in England.
BBC flat out lying about the SNP election result in Scotland.
John McDonnell quoted as saying the SNP have “fallen back” in Scotland. He must be listening to the BBC.
2012 SNP 425 seats
2017 SNP 431 seats
Can anybody in the BBC do arithmetic?
I am always surprised at people who support independence being surprised at what the MSM and the BBC say in order to maintain the status quo i.e preserve the UK. Why on earth would they do otherwise? Wise up, they are not on our side.
For me, a lifelong independence supporter, these results are disappointing. There is a complete lack of passion for self-determination in the independence debate from the whole population of Scotland. To my knowledge, no country in the world has sought independence based on economic grounds, it is usually because the people want to be a sovereign country whatever the cost.
It is a Unionist ploy to base the independence cause on economic grounds as there can never be an answer to the future, financial or otherwise, which is unknown. It is also very noticeable how clinical the independence argument has become, it is devoid of our history, our place in the world, our culture. If independence id going to be about a few quid better or worse off, it will never happen
The sheer naked opportunism of Tory unionists is on display in these elections. Apparently they are perfectly happy to be in the same company as blatant racists and the Orangemen, willing to cynically exploit prejudice in their supporters as long as it gets them the votes. Divide and rule is primitive politics, not sophisticated, and has been used probably throughout human history by those bent on power.
That they also probably despise many of their supporters is also true of Tory politicians. Many of us must have heard the disdain and downright snobbery often expressed by middle-class Tories towards the Orange Walkers. They are certainly not their sort of people. (‘We arra peepul’ is not a chant that would be welcomed in the leafy suburbs.) Pity those working class Loyalists could not hear the way they are disparaged in private by their cynical exploiters. It’s really quite sad.
Scottish Labour lost control of Glasgow City Council with the SNP becoming the largest party, although the Nationalists failed to secure a majority of seats in the city.
The SNP picked up 39 seats,
Labour returned a smaller band of councillors than previous with 31.
The Conservatives jumped from one councillor to eight.
Scottish Greens increased their tally to 7.
…….
Strangely enough, MSM failing to report that PRO INDY parties have 46 seats in Glasgow where 43 are required to take control.
Whichever way you try spin it, the SNP have indeed taken control of Glasgow for all intents and purposes.
Be it as a minority and vote by vote basis arrangement with the greens, or as a formal coalition (less likely).
Mad Frank stating this as a “victory” for labour in Glasgow…!!!
I think he is a bit unwell…?
Capella says:
5 May, 2017 at 5:43 pm
BBC flat out lying about the SNP election result in Scotland.
Because this another stepping stone for them, up the vote tory hill to union foreverness.
They have no interest in local Scottish elections, its BBC’s ability to take the tory gains and turn them into even more tory votes, is all that counts in Pacific Quay.
How’s Donalda MacKinnon’s winning back Scots trust in the BBC working out for you?
http://thenational.scot/news/14989377.We_ll_win_back_trust__vows_new_BBC_Scotland_chief_Donalda_MacKinnon/
Just over a month’s time and Donaldo could be in line for a UKOK gong.
Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap,
“In an interview with The National, she said trust was the foundation of the BBC and she was proud that the majority of viewers and listeners did trust it.”
Fingers crossed. Bet on for over 50 MP’s. After IndyRef1 loss. The fraudster Pollsters predicted a twist to YES. The Bookies knew the score. They were taking and bets on YES and paying out for N0. illegal/corrupt Pollsters? There are inquires. They are fined but not banned or jailed for gerrymandering and criminal activity. Getting away with £Millions of private and public money. Public Polls should be banned in the Purdah periods. Along with false promises.
If the SNP is now the largest party in Edinburgh, perhaps some attention can be spared for the task of removing outrageous Yoon propaganda posters adorning council bus-stops. Might seem innocuous and low priority but I bet this form of public deception has an effect and should not be accommodated by public infrastructure. The control of environmental pollution is still a local authority responsibility? It’s not been privatised yet?
Going to watch BBC Scotland News today. First time in years. Just to see the spin.
SNP did really well. Wait to see the Unionists deprive the people of majority and justice.
I’m seeing SNP +31 seats and one of our enemies has annihilated the other, totally excellent stuff. When you finish the day better than you started, so chins up and pop some corks this weekend lads, lassies and inbetweenies… Like Rev says we’re going to do this thing.
Things are becoming clearer. Independence supporting SNP and Greens have record number of Councillors. Labour has lost a third of theirs almost exclusively to the Tories.
Those that voted Tory and switched from Labour will have time to rue their decision. Another important point is that turnout was just under 40%.
The Unionists are good at getting their vote out we’re not so good. There’s all to play for so we fight on, never give up.
I won’t and neither will those who believe in Scotland becoming Independent. Next referendum is clear Scotland v Tories. I know who I believe will win that one after the chaos of Brexit.
Just been looking at the Stirling results and most of the conservatives were elected on 1st preference votes. – Jeez! Postal votes?
Some of our guys only got in at level 7, no doubts thanks to their 1st preference vote lifting their tally and a lack of people doing more than 1,2,3 etc.
Voter fatigue is quite a factor as the turnout was about 45%-55% here.
I wonder how high the postal vote was.
Jeez! just heard this on the BBC radio –
If you had to name a winner in Scotland, it would have to be the SNP but with a smaller vote. Smaller than what? Hang on, BBC – you do have to name the winner of this election and if it is the SNP you have to broadcast that… getting really cross now.
Don’t get disheartened peeps!
EU Citizens and Commonwealth citizens can vote in June and I don’t think a huge number of them will vote for tRuthless and her band of Merry muppets. So we should get a higher percentage in the GE.
The Unionist vote won’t increase that much more but we have to get the vote out.
At least for now, job done and SNP safely home again.
Compare 2017 Scottish Local Elections with 2012 Scottish Local Elections. (Total Seats).
Party 2017 Results 2012 Results +/- Difference
SNP 431 425 +6
Labour 262 394 -132
Conservative 276 115 +161
Lib Dems 67 71 -4
Independents 172 198 -26
So it’s up 6 seats for the SNP NOT down 7. So wtf is going on. BTW they were 1 out for Labour -132 NOT -133. 2 out for the Tories +161 NOT +163. 1 out for Liberals -4 NOT -3. So wtf is going on with the numbers? 1223 seats up for grab in 2012. Has there been a reduction or increase in Scottish Councillors?
‘Grand Master Ian” Wilson said the order would do anything in its power’
If you are prepared to do ‘anything’ in order to achieve something, it indicates that you’ve lost sight of the purpose of it to begin with.
That is what we need to focus on with these people. Not chastise them for voting Tory, but asking them to justify their reasons for doing so.
I understand it’s for ‘cultural reasons’. In what sense are the ex-Etonians who run the Tory party in any way part of their culture?
Of course our problem is that it’s very hard to persuade people that they’ve been conned.
What a day! The SNP well up on last local elections and UKIP melded into the Tory Party?
Scotland polarised and binary is Davidson’s “resurgence” but let us keep the moral high ground and have trust in our FM.
Let us be magnanimous to those who still had faith in Labour.
Just worked out there is an increase of 4 councillors since 2012. 1227 as opposed to 1223. So only 4 more councillors, and the SNP are down 7 instead of up 6. Even if the extra 4 councillors are taken into account surely this must be wrong?
Me and my Mrs both voted snp in East Dunbartonshire but even though snp were largest party we have a tory/libdem council expected snp – 7 Tory/Libdem 6 each.
In my very nationalist view coalitions shouldn’t be allowed but then we wouldn’t see snp/green in Glasgow.
Caught between a rock and a hard place we both are.
Love the news coming out of the EU today – all about trust and EU nationals and chuckling about the alternative language spat. England is becoming irrelevant…
Vive la France,Viva Espana, Deutschland, Deutschland, Vive la Repubblica Italia; Hail Alba!
Comments all across social media from people before yesterdays election clearly stated how they were going to mark their ballot paper. e.g. “SNP 1 and 2, leaving the rest blank”. Did this not play right into the Tories hands?
Copied from Wings Over Scotland…..
So how should Yes supporters vote in such a scenario? The STV voting system is impenetrably complicated to explain, but incredibly simple to vote in: you rank every candidate on the paper in order of preference – 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.
We should note that you’re not obliged to do so – you can simply mark a “1” beside your favourite candidate and leave it at that. But the short version is that if you do, you make it much more likely that Tories will get in and use the election of their councillors as “proof” that Scottish voters are opposed to independence, and as ammunition for Theresa May’s attempts to block a second referendum.
Numerous other sites have written articles in depth explaining exactly why that will be the effect. Read those if you want to fully understand the finer mechanics of it – we endorse all the blog posts linked in this paragraph. But the bottom line is the same in all of them, so we’re going to keep the message short:
RANK EVERY SINGLE CANDIDATE, WITH ALL THE PRO-INDEPENDENCE ONES AT THE TOP, AND PUT THE TORY/TORIES LAST.
lumilumi
The BBC’s new royal charter compels the organisation to promote Britain, so putting the boot in to Scotland and her vile seps can now be seen as technically part of the BBC’s public duty.
The Tories have actually become UKIP.
Toxic Tories indeed.
I have voted FOR the SNP in every election since the Iraq War.
This week’s “National” advised me to ‘vote till I boak’.
I voted and boaked – because I hadto place the SNP LAST on my ballot paper.
The first was a local man. He is good, honest and genuinely an independent (Not a Tory dressed up in ‘independent’ colours hiding as a party placement that dare not speak it’s name).
So I was then left to rank Tories above the SNP and I genuinely felt sick. The Conservatives killed one of my friends who is on the wretched http://www.calumslist.org
Before anyone starts having a rabid go at me for putting SNP last on my ballot paper, given the results coming in today, I think for those of us who want Independence, and thanks to WoS and Stu I STILL DO – perhaps it behoves some of the more analytical minds on here to STOP and think about why people are now leaving the SNP?
I am hoping my leaving the SNP will be temporary.
However, I am utterly furious with our local SNP. The SNP MSP’s vote went DOWN by 9.5% in the Holyrood election when nationally for that plebiscite the SNP vote went up 1.1%. Says much that you need to know about a pi$$ poor constituency MSP.
What happens when an SNP MSP is not very good?
1) Do you switch away from the SNP and vote for another party?
2) Do you hold your nose and vote in a career politician who put Machiavelli to shame?
3) For the local election, do you vote for the SNP Machiavelli’s mate who was parachuted in for the Council elections? Aye, right.
I loathe Labour. I despise the lying LibDems, and the hatred of the Tories is visceral. But they all got ranked, on the advice of the National. The worst last. For me, at this time, that is the local SNP mafia.
If Nicola Sturgeon was standing here, I would vote for her every hour of every day of every year.
So for this post, I am just letting the good folk on Wings Over Scotland know – there is something going wrong with the SNP band wagon. Those who still believe in the SNP passionately best get this fixed before the wheels come off.
My vote, and 4 of my family and 4 of my friends are all still there for the SNP.
But for heaven’s sake, please get the act together.
Today SHOULD be a salutary lesson in what happens when voters start to walk away from the SNP.
Anyone abusing me here will lose me forever. Anyone with a decent mind will find out a way to answer LEGITIMATE concerns, and stop the slow, inexorable seepage of support away from the SNP that would appear to have commenced on 4th May 2017.
“Anyone abusing me here will lose me forever. Anyone with a decent mind will find out a way to answer LEGITIMATE concerns”
It might help if at any point in that screed you’d mentioned what they were. You don’t like your MP? That wasn’t an election for MPs.
Al-Stuart, you write that “The Conservatives killed one of my friends”. That is terrible in the extreme.
And yet you chose to put the SNP candidative in your area in LAST PLACE on the ballot?
WTF?
PS. Why do you not tell us where you are, and which constituency MSP you find so “pi$$ poor”/”not very good”?
@ Al if you were so easily swayed from the snp I’m sorry but in my eyes you weren’t much of a nationalist in the first place.
I have voted snp my entire life my father voted snp his entire life even when the snp expelled him as a member of the 79 group he continued his un-dying support and activism till the day he died.
I feel once a nationalist always a nationalist if their are problems in the snp we don’t jump ship we work through it.
You should stay in my opinion.
@ Robert Peffers 3:38 pm
Och! Just follow your heart and vote Tory as you always really wanted to do anyway.
That will be right !! I’d rather have hemorrhoids
@Heather McLean says: 5 May, 2017 at 4:24 pm:
“I can sympathise with this, having just witnessed the counting of the ballot papers in Dundee!
So many wasted SNP votes because some people placed two crosses in the boxes instead of SNP 1&2, hard to say whether it would have made any difference to the eventual result, but so frustrating nevertheless!
Let’s face facts, Heather, these people, in the main, are not stupid they are only ignorant. Now most people don’t even get the difference between those two categories but being ignorant of how the system works simply means the person doesn’t know how it works and that is mainly because they are just not interested.
Now as for myself, for example, I am totally ignorant of anything whatsoever to do with Coronation Street or indeed any other soap opera. In fact I cannot even recall the title of that other waste of time, set in a square somewhere in the more sleazy areas of London. I remember it’s fictional name is Albert Square but that’s about all.
In fact I am ignorant of anything that is on TV other than the BBC text service news that I sometimes read on one of the, (on TV), Radio channels.
So there you go. The people spoiling their votes are not stupid people they are ignorant of just about everything to do with politics because the simply are not interested in politics.
Just as I would switch off anything I find as uninteresting as whatever idiotic things some so called ‘Celeb might, or might not be doing.
However, here’s the difference. If I were asked to vote for one celebrity from a bunch of celebrities I would first of all do a quick bit of on-line research to find out what each ‘Celeb was up to that was relevant then I would find out the method of voting.
That’s the essential difference not only are those ignorant voters who spoiled their papers ignorant they are lazy with it. That’s what makes them also stupid.
They could just as well have sat watching Coronation Street in the comfort of their own homes as bothering to trail to a polling station to spoil a voting slip.
Would I be wrong, then, if I concluded that those who are ignorant are also usually lazy and THAT is bloody stupid?
I’m finding it very funny, (laughable), how the BBC have spent all day today making out it has been a grand triumph for unionists and the Tory Party.
Yet their latest text news service item is headlined:-
STURGEON CLAIMS VICTORY DESPITE TORY SURGE
The article then goes on to say that now the SNP are the biggest party in Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee and that is only scratching the surface for are the SNP now not only the largest party in almost all other larger cities and towns but in many counties and shires too?
The BBC could spin that, “The Joker”, was winning the war against Batman & Robin in those comic epics.
and the Yoons will believe it.
@Dr Jim 3:52 pm
So how do you propose to achieve Independence without the SNP
Until the actual referendum comes up
Do I need to vote for a completely despicable person , No I don’t Besides the current parliamentary term is to 2021 so unless things go tits up big time
I shouldn’t need to
@ Meg merrilees
EU nationals do not get a vote in June (unless they are Irish, Cypriot, or Maltese).
Hi Struan,
Thanks for the reply. It was fair, reasonably polite and well considered.
My demographic is different from yours. I approach this as a job creator. That is my job: my company refurbishes empty commercial premises in Scotland and provides start up capital for new business.
The SNP masterstroke when first elected was to govern well.
John Swinney came into our offices and many here were persuaded by his case. Those of us who vote (or voted) SNP did this because it is an economically literate party that understands new jobs mean people can afford a roof over their heads and to pay taxes.
Rev Stu., BRILLIANTLY summed this up and I quote:
“Anyone who works a full 40-hour week, at ANY job, should be able to afford a roof over their head and an acceptable quality of life – including a social and leisure life – without state assistance.”
Conclude this with my point… the taxes generated by job creation then funds the NHS, schools, police etc. A virtuous circle.
John Swinney is a decent and astute person.
My main point: what do voters do when their MP is a dud (the vast majority are of course SNP)? That is a serious question.
As to your other comment, and this is important…
You say I am “not much of a Nationalist”. With respect, at least 25% of people currently voting SNP are “not much of a nationalist”. Think on that please. I reckon Rev Stu., would get the point and come up with one of the brilliant and forensic articles that keeps so many less ardent SNP voters onside.
However, if the died in the wool Nationalists start insulting us, then the case for Independence will dissolve in that critical 5% to 15% of sway voters and the magic 51% YES will fade off into the horizon.
Struan, I am certainly NOT easily swayed. Always approaching the ballot paper with a careful and considered view.
With genuine respect Struan, with the new political reality afoot in Scotland, the old guard and hard core Nationalists need to understand that a huge percentage of Scots vote SNP because it has decent policies, is led by good people and deserves their vote. But a great number of us are not wedded to the SNP.
Ignore that fact at your peril. Labour did, and the thrawn nature of many Scots has given Labour their jotters.
I’m trying to work out why there is a subtle sway away from voting SNP, and for those who do get my point, there is an opportunity to address that intelligently and remedy the problem.
Best wishes.
Al
—————————–
Struan says:
5 May, 2017 at 8:04 pm
@ Al if you were so easily swayed from the snp I’m sorry but in my eyes you weren’t much of a nationalist in the first place.
I have voted snp my entire life my father voted snp his entire life even when the snp expelled him as a member of the 79 group he continued his un-dying support and activism till the day he died.
I feel once a nationalist always a nationalist if their are problems in the snp we don’t jump ship we work through it.
You should stay in my opinion.
Hi Stu.,
Direct answer to your post: unfortunately, we have a triumvirate of duds. The MP, the MSP and the Councillor. All SNP. Although there are, after today fewer SNP councillors and the SNP have lost control of the council today!
Rev., I know you dislike overly long replies, so straight to the point…
What do voters do when their elected representative is a dud? All 3 of ours are SNP. All have good aspects, but in the round all are duds.
Stu., I believe you were once a LibDem voter and had an unfortunate experience with that party, which if I read things correctly is the Genesis of Wings Over Scotland.
On topic – I am scunnered with the local SNP, and the purpose of my ‘screed’ is to try and find a way of being able to vote SNP next time around.
You have the finest analytical style of writing I know of and am kind of hoping you can help me out with this one.
Best.
Al
——————–
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
5 May, 2017 at 7:48 pm
“Anyone abusing me here will lose me forever. Anyone with a decent mind will find out a way to answer LEGITIMATE concerns”
It might help if at any point in that screed you’d mentioned what they were. You don’t like your MP? That wasn’t an election for MPs.
@Al-Stuart 7:41 pm
I know exactly where your coming from
“2) Do you hold your nose and vote in a career politician who put Machiavelli to shame?”
done that four times
“3) For the local election, do you vote for the SNP Machiavelli’s mate who was parachuted in for the Council elections?” No enough is enough
Al Stuart and Stonefree..
No guys, you become like me.
The SNP let me down too, not just once but a sustained let down which did much to destroy my business. Angry? Yes. Livid. Frustrated? Bitterly.
It even drove a wedge between me and my local YES because of the rage simmering with the dickheads who wouldn’t even answer a straight question. They still go from strength to strength, yet never know how much their career relies on my NOT impeaching the bastards and bringing them down because of my bigger belief in an Independent Scotland.
I was hurt and damaged by the SNP, not by central policy which I roundly support, especially Independence, but local and not so local failures by individuals who were weak, spineless, incompetent, yet had “nothing to add to the answers I’d been given”.
These are the “champions” who are going to free my country? Ooooh shit.
What you guys have to do is sit down and think hard about what’s important to you. For me, that’s an Independent Scotland. It’s Independence for my Scotland, not the SNP’s Scotland. In my Scotland, the wankers that let me down would be brought to justice,… but we’re not there yet.
If they had just done their jobs, just answered the questions, my business would still be thriving whereas it’s the local rogues and crooks who thrive. The SNP could have helped, should have helped, should have been appalled at what what was happening to my business, but they just didn’t give a fk.
I believe personally that I’m a good soldier for the Independence cause. If it ever happens there are just a hundred of us Declaration of Arbroath style, then I’ll be there, with or without the SNP. I have talked about many initiatives which I think would have strengthened the hand and policy of the SNP, but my only contribution is BTL comments in online blogs. I am an ardent Scottish nationalist but I will never be a member of the SNP. That is their loss, not mine.
I was banging on for months about the media prior to a Yes vote, years before it was popular. I talked about people wearing a black and white ribbon to protest about the BBC forever telling us black was white.
The day after the 2014 result, I was on here saying the SNP had no time to dwell on defeat, they should hold an immediate plebiscite so that the unspecified “more powers” promised in the despicable Vow would be defined by the Scottish Electorate, not left hostage to weasel words of the Unionists. We’d lost Independence, but I feel sure we could have secured a mandate to demand that we got to choose what powers Westminster had to return, and in that box of golden treasure would be broadcasting. But nobody listened.
I could go on… read my back posts if you doubt it, but there’s no point. I only look forwards now. I don’t dwell on error and mistakes once they’ve happened, I try to prevent them being made. It puts me in a place I can be comfortable. I can be fullsome of my praise of the SNP when they deserve it, or I can be withering in my criticism when they deserve that.
I have no loyalty to the SNP, but I understand that the SNP is the dream catcher. It is the sail which harnesses the power of all the disparate little breezes like me and gives collective focus to our powerful common purpose, a free Scotland.
My advice to you gents is to forget the SNP, make peace with your own anger and disappointment, and find a way to contribute to the struggle that makes you feel constructive. Before long, the 2014 YES referendum campaign will begin in earnest for ScotRef. The SNP will take off the myopic spectacles and all flavours of pro-Indy belief and aspirations will be catered for.
A vote for the SNP isn’t for the SNP, it’s for an Independent Scotland.
We need asap a brand new news-desk/ TV and stop BBC from supposedly setting up for one.
We should remove BBC from Scotland altogether and fully support true journalism, truth, clarity and non political.