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Wings Over Scotland


Wowing a crowd

Posted on April 04, 2013 by

The Prime Minister made a rare appearance in Scotland this afternoon, showing up at defence contractors Thales in Govan to answer questions from what the BBC described as “the public”, but looked in fact to have been exclusively employees of the company and who appeared to have been briefed not to ask anything difficult, instead serving up softballs like “What is the government doing to encourage business?” and other similar blandities that we’ve already forgotten five minutes later.

camgovan

As you can see, he went down a storm.

camgovan2

camgovan3

camgovan5

camgovan6

camgovan4

We did like the bit where he said it was important for leaders to get on aeroplanes and personally fly all over the world to promote their countries abroad, though. Maybe someone should tell the Scottish opposition.

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    117 to “Wowing a crowd”

    1. Tom says:

      Great set of screen grabs. The auld guy in the third one is actually asleep.

    2. Dunc says:

      Judging from the looks on their faces, there’s a squad of soldiers pointing guns at their families somewhere out of shot. I’ve seen happier faces in A&E.

    3. Ericmac says:

      Can some talented Graphic artist gets some hangman’s ropes around all the audiences necks ….  PLEASE….  Just imagine the impact.
       
       

    4. MadJockMcMad says:

      Just look at all those happy smiling folk wishing the ground would simply open up and swallow the grandstander; all the folded arms, folk looking at their watches, the ground, anywhere but Cameron all thinking the same thing …. Cameron – get tae F …

    5. auslander says:

      Was he on a rotating platform? Also, seems to be many people with arms folded/uncomfortable body language.

    6. tartanfever says:

      Love the strapline on the first photo:
      “countries don’t survive with big deficits” 🙂

    7. Seasick Dave says:

      Looks like they are luvin’ it.
       
      Go, Dave, go!

    8. Seasick Dave says:

      Slightly OT, but can anyone tell me, why is it that when the UK suffers a terrorist attack, its not the Army that defend us, but the Police?
       
      Our Armed Forces seem more set up to attack than defence which, in turn, leads to us coming under attack from terrorists.
       

    9. Craig says:

      I know someone in that crowd…no I’m not saying which one. 😀

    10. Tom says:

      This is all getting a bit desperate for Better Together. Today we read Alastair Darling’s reheated verbal diahorrea about the currency, bleatingly leaked to his patsies in the media like some irritating schoolboy clipe. Then Dave comes up to insult the intelligence of every person in the UK more clever than Mick Philpott by suggesting that N Korea could hit us with a nuclear weapon Aye, right…
      They are getting rattled, the bedroom tax is a policy disaster area (although no one seems that bothered about the English NHS melting away before their eyes) and they know that their time is running out. Maybe Alex could wind them up a bit more by postponing the referendum until May 2015.

    11. Arbroath1320 says:

       
      Tom says:
       

      Great set of screen grabs. The auld guy in the third one is actually asleep.
      I don’t think he was the ONLY one either Tom. 😆
       
       
      MadJockMcMad says:

      Just look at all those happy smiling folk wishing the ground would simply open up and swallow the grandstander; all the folded arms, folk looking at their watches, the ground, anywhere but Cameron all thinking the same thing …. Cameron – get tae F …

      That wouldn’t be FRANCE by any chance MJM? 😆
       
       
      tartanfever says:

      Love the strapline on the first photo:
      “countries don’t survive with big deficits”
       
      Perhaps Cameron should watch Max Keiser more often and he’ll see just how much debt the UK has. According to Max the overall debt to GDP ratio for the UK is running at 900% Explain THAT one Dave!

       
       

    12. tartanfever says:

      Exactly Dave – I’ve often wondered why I’ve never heard that argument myself. What use was the army to the 7/7 bombings or IRA bombings of previous decades ? Absolutely none (well, they could be used for crowd control or response I suppose) but in terms of actual prevention ?  They did hee-haw.

    13. Training Day says:

      I posed the question earlier over whether there was now any doubt that the MSM (particularly the BBC) were grimly holding this straining at the seams, contradictory shambles aka the NO campaign together..
       
      This proves there is no doubt!

    14. donaldGTrump says:

      I wonder how many in that audience have ever voted Tory?

    15. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      iDave will come off the stage, ask his PR posse how did, and will receive the response that he really stuck it to the SNP and that Salmonid chap.
       
      Therin lies Westminster’s problem; they haven’t a furkin clue about Scotland and rely on their paid liars to tell them.
       
      It never occurs to them that paid liars are capable of lying to their masters as well.

    16. Indion says:

       
      Craig wrote @ 4:37pm:
      ‘ I know someone in that crowd…no I’m not saying which one. ‘
      Of course not!  However, if you are in touch, please do contact her/him and feedback their views on their and the gathered attendees reaction. Can do? 

    17. Luigi says:

      Another thousand yes votes in the bag. Job done, Dave. Now hightail it out of there before you get lynched!

    18. panda paws says:

      I reckon that Neil Lennon would get a warmer reception at Ibrox! Dear God if looks could kill…. Would that mean that Nick Clegg would be PM since he’s deputy?

    19. Gusmac says:

      They should string the bastard up.

    20. CameronB says:

      The best thing you can say about Dave, is that he has probably left the country by now.

    21. heraldnomore says:

      I see the BBC are reverting to their standard red & white graphics, not the nice new union jackery red, white & blue ones they’ve introduced recently on the Scottish bulletins.  Gosh, we must be the privilged minority to get the new ones; wonder why……

    22. annie says:

      And these are the people lucky enough to have jobs – can you imagine an audience of unemployed / disabled /pensioners.

    23. Indion says:

      Any views of folk wading out after diplomatic Cam to hold him back from departing in his inflatable gunboat?

    24. Neil says:

      Good to see our first class Radio Scotland broadcasters have risen to the occassion and the challenge over the past couple of days.
      In response to Gideons speech the ‘critical, unbiased analysis’, came in the form of a long, uninterrupted lecture from Edwina Currie where she advised the audience on how to live by her principles and morals.
      Todays visit by ‘Dave’ was widely trailed using the Governments press release and then followed up by mainly reporting ‘Daves’ views.
      More time was spent on a story where puppies are to be used to calm students nerves prior to exams.

    25. Jeannie says:

      I love pictures 4 and 6.  Who’s the lassie in the blue blouse being held hostage?  She looks like her arms are tied behind her back and the wee wumman behind her is holding a gun to her back 🙂

    26. Marcia says:

      I count at least 4 who look as though they were sleeping.  It reminds me of the time he went to Cupar and the audience had the same look of interest.

    27. Macart says:

      Oh dang, I’ve seen happier faces in a dentist’s chair. The only things missing are the pitchforks and torches. 😀

    28. muttley79 says:

      @Training Day
       
      I posed the question earlier over whether there was now any doubt that the MSM (particularly the BBC) were grimly holding this straining at the seams, contradictory shambles aka the NO campaign together..
       
      This proves there is no doubt!
       
      Correct, they know it and we know it.  Some of the audience look like they want to lynch Cameron!  I honestly cannot see by the way Cameron is acting that he is not trying to sabotage the No campaign.  He talks as if independence has already happened.  That is the surreal part.  I would never have thought a UK PM would act in this way towards Scotland.  I wonder if part of the reason Scottish Labour are going ballistic (minus the pro-independence group) at the moment is that they have cottoned on to another agenda at play?  Even Peter Robinson warned Cameron about pushing Scotland towards independence with his tactics!

    29. dpict says:

      ‘Countrys dont survive with big deficits’!!! Since the UK has a deficit second only to Ireland in the world, what exactly is he trying to achieve here? the mind boggles!
      In other words,  go independant if your smart because the UK is totally bust with a debt at 700% of GDP and rising fast! a couple of percent rise in the cost of servicing all that debt and the UK is finished.

    30. Malcolm says:

      Can you imagine the staff-wide email they must’ve sent requiring everyone to turn up?
       
      Oh to be a fly on the wall in Thales the noo.

    31. It seems to me that all the employees have been given a very strong sedative. He or she who moves first will be fired. David in Zombieland, pathetic effort to look driven and sympathetic. Other world leaders (what’s in a name) have applied the same tactics in the past somewhere in Russia, Germany, Iraq…

    32. alasdair says:

      lol, so many comments here I wish I could ‘like’ … I’m sure there’s a plugin Rev :nudge nudge:

    33. Seanair says:

      Pure coincidence that Cameron visits Scotland on the same day as “Wills and Kate”, with Charles somewhere else in our country. Downing Street and the Palace in cahoots to show that  we.’re all British together?    Rather desperate I think.

    34. Boorach says:

      That was the Scottish tory conference that was! 🙂

    35. Yesitis says:

      The Union flags were waving in Glasgow today!!!
       
      Well, at least in front of wherever there was a Reporting Scotland cameraman 🙂

    36. Kimberley says:

      There’s some corkers amongst that crowd. I particularly like the guy at the right of picture 3. He looks like he’s counting the ways he’d like to kill Call Me Dave. Also, if any of Dave’s PR people would like a visual ‘vox pop’ of Call me’s popularity among female voters, all they need to do is look at all the lassies in the photos.

    37. kelvinmacsnp says:

      Why are they behind him? Is he talking out his arse…
       

    38. TYRAN says:

      So Cameron is using a supposed nuke strike from North Korea as a case for the Union? Why else is he coming out with this stuff? Look, this is the leader of the ‘country’ and the audience couldn’t give two craps about him, what he has to say, or his party, as evident from the footage. I don’t get what Better Together are selling. Look at the pictures.

    39. DMW42 says:

      Malcolm, “oh to be a fly on the wall…”
       
      Oh to be a seagull flying over him and do what a seagull does…

    40. The Man in the Jar says:

      OT (A bit)
      The judge at the Philpot trial described Philpot as a “Disturbingly Dangerous man with no moral compass”
      Shortly afterwards another man who some consider Disturbingly Dangerous man with no moral compass. Waded into the debate linking Philpot with benefit claimants.
      Sickening Tory Bastard.
      Sorry about the swearing but no other words describe.

    41. Jiggsbro says:

      Sorry about the swearing but no other words describe.
       
      There are other words that describe. But they’re all swearing.

    42. EdinScot says:

      Can you feel the love David lol.  A Tory visit to Scotland is a total gift to the YES campaign especially with the guff Cameron was spouting.  Next…

    43. pmcrek says:

      Come on guys we should be polite when a foreign leader visits.

    44. tartanfever says:

      I think if I had been in that crowd behind Cameron but on camera, the ‘Oh fuck it’ principle would have been too overwhelming to just pull out a sheet of A4 paper and hold it in front of my face:

      ‘This is all bullshit..’ and start shaking my head.

      Probably would have been sacked though.

    45. Craig says:

      Indion: My friend says that they were about as interested as they looked. When asked about what they thought of the speech itself they replied: “He spoke.” XD

      I noticed on the evening news that they’re playing damage control. A quick shot of the PM from an extreme side angle then a cut to Brian Taylor to give his “analysis” as the speech was still ongoing. Oh well, so much for the nice crowd shot. 😀

      Just seeing reports that SSP, SNP and Yes Scotland are seeing a spike in membership requests starting from right after the speech.

    46. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I think if I had been in that crowd behind Cameron but on camera, the ‘Oh fuck it’ principle would have been too overwhelming to just pull out a sheet of A4 paper and hold it in front of my face:

      ‘This is all bullshit..’ and start shaking my head.”

      I’d have gone with the classic “DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING”.

    47. Macart says:

      I’m all for him paying another visit or two. Suggested venues anyone?
       
      NHS trust
      Old Folks Homes
      A burroo in Easterhouse
      Tour of base closures to bring comfort to communities affected
       
      He’s got to be worth a few K votes with every syllable. 🙂

    48. Tattie-boggle says:

      @ Rev Stu
      “CAREFUL NOW” lol

    49. Malcolm says:

      Did anyone hear them talking about this on Radio Scotland today?
       
      Call Kaye (Kirsty Wark standing in) read out half a dozen texts all resolutely in favour of trident. I think this show is beginning to select its own audience, not sure I can stomach it much longer. Even John Humphries is sounding more appealing of a morning.
       
      Then on newsdrive we had such quality journalism as (I paraphrase due to failing memory):
       

      “this visit by Cameron will be difficult for the SNP, who have said they’d get rid of trident after a yes vote in the independence referendum”, spectacularly conflating a party’s policy with the complete unknown result of any post-yes election
      “Scots have long made a disproportionate contribution to the armed forces” without a shred of analysis that this might be because for a lot of people there is fuck all else to do for a career as a result of unionist deindustrialisation
      “Trident provides a lot of jobs at Faslane for the local community” 520.
      “Cameron was right to get involved on this issue, though Better Together are usually in charge of talking about the referendum” #1 Right why and #2 tellingly thinking of better together as dealing with the referendum like a ratcatcher deals with a pest problem.

      I was swearing at my radio coming home today.

    50. albaman says:

      Rev you indicated a placard “DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING” thats a bit strong
      dont you think, how about “GET YOUR ARSE BACK SOUTH OF OUR BORDER” ?!!.
       

    51. Jamie Arriere says:

      Does anyone know if Cameron said “….and of course if you do vote for independence, we in London will drop any orders to you like a fucking stone!!”?
      Or will they leave the bullying till next year?

    52. albaman says:

      mind you I could have posted a placard with the more appropriate words==
      “HEY YOU, GET YOUR WIND BOWING ARSE BACK DOWN THE OTHER SIDE OF OUR BORDER”  

    53. Marcia says:

      Jamie Arriere
       
      How would they be able to pay when the major source of income leaves? Suppose we could lend them the money at Wonga rates.

    54. ScotFree1320 says:

      If having nuclear weapons stops nuclear blackmail, why then is North Korea threatening the USA?  After all, the USA has one of the world’s largest stockpiles of them and they are the only country who has ever used them in anger.

    55. scottish_skier says:

      No mention of Dave’s Govan visit and speech on the Better Together site.

      Wonder why.

    56. Gordon Smith says:

      How to get a crowd on your side, Anti Scottish party leader comes  to their workplace and assert  that they are lucky to have their jobs due to Londons Patronage.
       

    57. MajorBloodnok says:

      @ScotFree1320
       
      Because NK has always been at war with Eastasia (or is it Oceania?).

    58. muttley79 says:

      @Scottish_Skier
       
      No mention of Dave’s Govan visit and speech on the Better Together site.
      Wonder why.
       
       
      Because it went down like a nuclear bomb?…  😀
       

    59. Macart says:

      @muttley
       
      Badumtish. 😀

    60. westie7 says:

      @Malcolm.
      Yeah Call Kaye selects their audience just as the Comments on the article on the BBC news site are also carefully chosen, the top comments being pro Trident and having dozens of + ratings. FIX

    61. crisiscult says:

      My musings from today:
      is it maybe a good idea to have nuclear weapons to protect us from the US (do N Korea’s have the range? only the US has shown they’ll use them)?
      how many people are attracted to the echoes of the British Empire’s global power – I suspect it’s not all that unusual an attraction, like dating an elderly professor in preference to an ambitious young nobody
      is it only me that gets bothered by references to Queen Elizabeth II, James I and II, Edward VII – like in the new Life in the UK test as just one example?

    62. JLT says:

      Jeezo ….if he can’t even get them to crack a smile at even Govan, then you seriously have to wonder (and worry for the Unionists). This the PRIME MINISTER …MR GREAT BRITAIN himself, and from look on some of their faces, I think they are dying to lynch Cameron. If there was no cameras, no police, no witnesses!!! – as Taggart would say ….’there’s been a murdur’ (and poetically and ironically …in Govan too!!!)

    63. the rough bounds says:

      My guess is that David was feeling a little nervous and was letting off more silent farts than one would normally expect; hence the expressions on the faces of the adoring workers.

    64. MJB says:

      5th screen shot down,caption should`ve read PM visiting French multi national defence firm Thales UK.
      Hold on,thought foreign companies didn`t build UK warships?

    65. beachthistle says:

      I’ve a feeling that when Scotland is independent we will look back on 4/4/13 as the day the ‘No campaign’ and/or Cameron ‘jumped the submarine’
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark …

    66. CameronB says:

      Apologies beachthistle, but I can’t ‘share’ or ‘like’ quality comments such as yours. I will use it though, so keep an eye out for it. It’s going in the Telegraph right now, in fact. 🙂 Hope you don’t mind.

    67. Tom says:

      I nearly pee’d masel’ laughing at this (link) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/cartoon/

    68. Calum says:

      @Malcolm.
      I listen to Radio Scotland on the net for a taste of home (I live in England) but I am getting soooo fed up with the utterly biased editorial stance. I was also shouting with some anger in the car today with the nonsense about Trident! It is as clear as day that the “official” BBC stance is to undermine the independence movement at every single opportunity. Objectivity my arse!

    69. beachthistle says:

      Cheers CameronB
      Of course I don’t mind, feel free to sow it wherever…

    70. Hetty says:

      I feel a bit sorry for the workers there, having to endure that. Thing is, it does also look like a scary film, maybe like 1984 or something where everyone is too scared to do or say anything…thankfully we have the power to do something though! It will be great to be rid, just great.

    71. Weedeochandorris says:

      @ Tom, that cartoon is hilarious. It will be thoroughly lapped up south of the border as well.  It is an accurate representation of exactly how they must see us up here.  Dispensable, or at least thats how they like to portray things to the English readers.  Ofcourse, they’re being fed all the same lies and have little or no idea what the real truth is.  I doubt many of them care enough because of their brain-washing to read anything else other than what they’re being spoon-fed about the ‘whinging, sponging, scrounging, too wee, too poor Scots. That is, when they can actually find anything to read.  Camerooon standing there, finger on the button, only one who can save us, omg I want to barf now.

    72. Bill C says:

      @Tom – Yip says it all, thanks for the link.

    73. Alex Grant says:

      I am continually bemused by the absence of anger from a populace who are told they have to face austerity for a generation (and if you examine the economics the UK is bust!) but they do not question the continued investment in defence expenditure especially nuclear weapons.
      I have to believe that this will become a big issue soon and the SG have to focus more on the practicalities and economics and not just the morality. I have just watched Scotland Tonight and Newsnicht and no comment on this whilst IPSOS MORI tell viewers it is a non issue in the referendum!

    74. Adrian B says:

      I see that George Osborne has been caught parking in a disabled parking space. If cutting their benefit wasn’t bad enough.
       
      Twitter pic from stvharry: https://twitter.com/stvharry/status/319934730025971713/photo/1

    75. The Man in the Jar says:

      Just watched the footage (Newsnicht) of Cameron’s visit that the screenshots are taken from.
      The girl on the right in glasses and a blue shirt. All through it she looked like she was thinking “Who is this strange man, what is he doing here and where the feck are security?”
      No offence to the young lady!
       

    76. Patronsaintofcats says:

      I heard Aunty Annabelle on Radio 4 this am being interviewed about Trident and she spouted off the 12,000 jobs nonsense -suddenly found myself shouting “You lying cow!” before I could stop myself.  Scared the poor wee dug half out of his wits!

    77. Tris says:

      Haste ye back, Posh Boy. You’re worth all you cost us in security.

    78. Weedeochandorris says:

      And @ patronsaintofcats   Och well you have to laugh now and then 🙂
      http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/independent-scotland-to-blame-cats-2013020658754

    79. Dal Riata says:

      Anyone see Reporting Scotland tonight when they closed off their report of yon Willy and Katy coming to Scotland with the reporter lady standing beside a guy grinning like an eejit and holding two wee Union Jack flag? Christ, that really deserved a LOL!
       
      And then there was the-one-and-only Ian Davidson on STV’s Scotland Tonight accusing his SNP opponent in the studio of “talking mince”! He has a certain..um..way with words does Mr.Davidson!
       
      His opponent didn’t even need to say much to make Davidson assertions nothing but scaremongering and nonsense – he did it all himself!
       
      His usual lie about the “thousands of jobs lost” if Trident goes was to be expected.He then ranted on about something along the lines of it (getting rid of Trident) couldn’t happen because the USA wouldn’t “allow” it to happen!
       
      But then he really went off on one, saying any siting of an independent Scotland’s naval fleet should be on the east coast and not the west, because “that’s where any attack will come from”…
      So, there you have it, when Scotland is attacked it’s going to be coming from the east.. Listen to Ian Davidson, he knows where our enemies will strike!!
       
      Honest to Christ, that man is a buffoon.
       
       
       
       
       

    80. Patrick Roden says:

      I’d like to thank Mr Cameron for his visit, as the SNP have just announced that they have had 109 new members signed up since his speech lol.
       
      this link will take you to a report about a Yes Scotland meeting that had double the ammount they expected to show up and the audience included a lot of Labour members !
      http://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/local-headlines/yes-campaign-lift-off-1-2876407

    81. Yesitis says:

      @Dal Riata
      “So, there you have it, when Scotland is attacked it’s going to be coming from the east.. Listen to Ian Davidson, he knows where our enemies will strike!!”
      I`m in Dundee, so I should regularly check the night skies for incoming Danish missiles?
      🙂

    82. Adrian B says:

      @ Dal Riata,
       
      Honest to Christ, that man is a buffoon.
      Aye, but remember one important thing – it was his Scottish Affair’s Committee that let the cat out of the bag on how easy it was to remove WMD’s from the Clyde. Something that he would be well aware of with Camerons visit and his own appearance on STV tonight.
       
      Don’t forget that there is a demonstration against these WMD’s that starts off in George Square, Glasgow on Saturday 13th April at 10.30

    83. pmcrek says:

      @Yesitis
      I think he meant the attack might come from Dundee 😀

    84. Wur A' Doomed says:

      Apparently, according to the Telegraph, we shouldn’t let the English have the nukes cos they’ll use them on us.
       
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9972579/Sketch-PM-goes-nuclear-on-Scottish-independence.html
       
      Oh, and shouldn’t Unionists use of ‘Braveheart’ be akin to Godwin’s Law?

    85. Adrian B says:

      That wouldn’t be the Dundee SNP council that famously claimed it would have a policy of no evictions on the ‘Bedroom Tax’? 😉

    86. Adrian B says:

      News of the 2015/2016 upcoming defense cuts from the Telegraph
       
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9972633/Defence-will-be-cut-after-2015-David-Cameron-admits.html
       
      In an interview with The Daily Telegraph last month, Treasury minister Danny Alexander warned that the Armed Forces and the police faced further spending cuts because the Coalition will not sanction any more reductions to welfare payments.
      He said that the Ministry of Defence and the Home Office would share the pain of the £11.5billion of cuts due in 2015/16.

      Helped on no doubt by a ‘Yes’ vote in September 2014.

    87. CameronB says:

      “I think he meant the attack might come from Dundee”
       
      Ha, we’re already amongst yez.

    88. Dal Riata says:

      @Yesitis  Indeed! Damn dasterdly Danes – warmongers the lot of them! Maybe someone at Labour HQ is having a wee word in Davidson’s ear right now…
      “Err, Ian, um, that Viking stuff we were talking about last week. You know, how we could try to make up some stupid story about Orkney and Shetland and Vikings and stuff and how that lot up there weren’t really Scottish anyway?”
      “Aye, of course ah dae! That’s why ah telt thum oan the telly the night aboot gettin’ attacked fae the east, an’ aw tha’. Ah bet thur aw shitin’, thumsels noo, eh!”  
      “Errr..Ian, there, um, err, aren’t any Vikings anymore. They stopped doing that stuff hundreds of years ago!”
      “Eh? Whit? Ur you lookin’ fur a doin’ ur som’hin?” 🙂
       
      @Adrian B  Thanks for the heads up about 13 April. Will try my best to get there.
       

    89. Adrian B says:

      Scrap Trident
       
      http://www.banthebomb.org/index.php?option=com_eventlist&view=details&id=355:scrap-trident&Itemid=179
       

      Scrap Trident rally
      Assemble George Square 1015March off 1045, march around city centreRally in George Square 1145 – 1315
      Speakers include Patrick Harvie MSP (Scottish Green Party) and Sandra White MSP (SNP)
      This is part of the Scrap Trident weekend of action. There will also be workshops in Glasgow on Sunday 14 April and a blockade of Faslane on Monday 15 April. The weekend of action is supported by a range of organisations, including Scottish CND.
      More information is available on scraptrident.org
      Scrap Trident Facebook page
       

    90. Barontorc says:

      To put a wee notion on the table – do you think the UK guy who spoke earlier yesterday from Seoul, S Korea was perhaps nearer the truth when he said, more or less, it’s business as usual here – N Korea makes these gestures all the time and people here just don’t react any more?
      So up-come the sabre rattling brigade fully briefing their obedient lackey UK rubbish press and with dear old dependable Aunty Beeb of course doing its unending bit and just everybody conflating it a tad, to suit and agenda or two.
      Sort of takes the heat off the bedroom tax, and workfare, etc., but by the look on the faces of the ‘audience’ for Call me Dave, they couldn’t give a rat’s fa*t what he was saying in any case. Charisma negative I’m afraid!

    91. beachthistle says:

      I’m guessing that the BT crowd had a rather stressful, WTF, kind of day yesterday: probably felt like they had done a wholes series of The Thick of It in 8 or so hours.
      Turned out the Prime Minister wasn’t so much the loose cannon they feared they would be, more a mis-firing stray North Korean missile!

    92. Bunter says:

      Nice editorial in the herald today on the case for WMD. Looks like it was written by Cameron himself. I actually detest the Herald more than the Scotsman, as you feel the Herald is playing a game with its anti indy stance 6 days a week, then using the Sunday edition with MacWhirter and Bell to string along pro indy folk or people looking for some balance.
      I guess survival is the name of the game but  its sad that these papers would rather go down the pan supporting the union than do the right thing and do their job impartially, as there is a huge untapped market out there for facts and figures as opposed to spin, lies and misinformation.
      Maybe YES need to start polling 40% before hings start to turn, but I feel it will be the new media who will win the day which is why, in my 50s, I signed up to facebook to share, share share!!
       

    93. Robert Louis says:

      I’ve just been watching a so-called security ‘expert’ on morning TV.  I have never heard such utter bull in my entire lifle.  She was questioned on whether Korean missiles could reach the UK, and basically said no, but then astonishingly went on to say that nuclear missiles could come in via submarines or ships.  Yip, that’s right folks, North Korea, would send nuclear missiles all the way from North Korea to the UK, via ships. Even worse she said North Korea could launch nuclear missiles from submarines – and when it was pointed out they didn’t have that capability, she said it was something ‘we need to consider’ as a potential threat.   The message????  Be afraid, be very afraid.   What a lot of utter, utter, utter sh*te.
       
      You know people call Blair a liar because of the completely fake ’15 minutes to WMD’s’ from Iraq nonsense, but honestly, he has nothing on this latest batch of nonsense claims by media security ‘experts’ (MI5 plants).
       
      The sooner Scotland is rid of these stupid nuclear missiles, the better.  Only a YES vote in 2014 will ensure it happens.

    94. Boorach says:

      @ Robert Louis
       
      Er…… I think South Korea is supposed to be the good guy! 🙂

    95. Robert Louis says:

      Haha, yes, I’ve already corrected it.

    96. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      and now, Bitter Together actually have a policy document about why we NEED Trident.
       
      If anyone doubted it, there is not a fag paper between the Tories, the LibDums and Labour.
       
      The BT Committee has spoken.
       
      http://b.3cdn.net/better/1d626f971129f12f3e_71m6baqxn.pdf
       
       

    97. Robert Louis says:

      Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Finland (which borders a nuclear superpower) Sweden, Norway, Belgium, The Netherlands, must all be quaking in their shoes this morning, knowing that they have NO nuclear missiles to protect themselves from attack.
       
      I cannot see any good rational reason for a country such as Scotland,  of five million people, having a nuclear stockpile of 225 nuclear bombs.  It is absurd.

    98. Tattie-boggle says:

      @ Bugger (the Panda
      I loved this bit.
       
       
       
       

       

      If the nationalists are morally opposed to the nuclear deterrent in Scotland, the question they need to answer is what is moral about simply moving it a few miles down the coast?

       

    99. Craig M says:

      Knighthoods, Peerages and Non Executive Directorships are far more important that peoples lives….for the Better Together mafia.

    100. Tattie-boggle says:

      BT mob need to ask themselves what morals are?

    101. dmw42 says:

      Anyone any idea who amongst the red tories used to flaunt their CND creds? And can the Unions still back their new appetite for WMDs?

    102. Macart says:

      @ Bugger (the Panda)
       
      Wow they really truly are all one party and they honestly don’t give a rat’s *** about the wishes of the electorate. The quote list they term the nationalist’s fantasy shopping list. Words fail……..
       
      So if 80% of the electorate don’t want the nuclear abomination in their front yard, your first port of call is to trash all the things that could replace it as a spending priority. Better yet shift the morality:
       
      “If the nationalists are morally opposed to the nuclear deterrent in Scotland, the question they need to answer is what is moral about simply moving it a few miles down the coast?”
       
      Firstly – To where precisely? They don’t have the facilities. Secondly – So to protect everyone else from threat of becoming the victim of an accident, or a nuclear target, or a terrorist threat Scotland has to do the right thing and host WMDs which it never wanted and has always campaigned to rid itself of? FFS how twisted can you get? NOBODY should host the bloody things, we’re doing the world a favour by getting shot. There is also a distinct possibility that since they clearly cannot house them at present, now is the opportunity for Westminster to dump the programme altogether. An independent Scotland would be doing all of the British Isles a huge favour.
       

    103. Seasick Dave says:

      Can we not plead that we are too wee, poor and stupid to be attacked?
       
      We’re just no worth the bother.
       
      Lamont could do the talking.
       

    104. alexicon says:

      Come on folks I think you’re all being a wee bit unfair on Cameron and the BBC, I’m sure that in a few months time Cameron will produce a letter showing that the real enemy of the North (take note RL) korea is in fact not the South Koreans or the USA it will be in all honesty an Independent Scotland and the SNP.
      Of course BT will testify that he has seen the letter and thus Granny MacTavish will be so fear ridden that a no vote from her will be secured at the expense of the real truth.
       
      Rev. Maybe a new link to add to your ever growing list.
       
      https://www.facebook.com/Conservatives4Independence
       
      Every encouragement should be given.
       
      On the subject of the BBC. Looks like many people have found a way of not paying the TV licence.
       
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304280/BBC-silence-licence-loophole-Corporation-refuses-say-households-need-catch-online.html

    105. Frances says:

      alexicon,
       
      I think the Conservatives4Independence site is a spoof – at least I hope it is!

    106. Bunter says:

      On another thread, on BBC website there is another announcement of U.S. companies creating jobs in Scotland. This time its central Scotland, yesterday it was Inverness area I think.
      Looks like A.S. and his team over in the U.S.  are doing a good job on inward investment. Will we get any Unionist quotes on these announcements??

    107. Iain says:

      “I am continually bemused by the absence of anger from a populace who are told they have to face austerity for a generation (and if you examine the economics the UK is bust!) but they do not question the continued investment in defence expenditure especially nuclear weapons.”
       
      I am totally with you on this and had it reinforced by an experience at work this afternoon. Sitting in the canteen having tea with Cameron on the telly my workmates start talking about him and then the referendum. Intellegent people but the upshot was ‘what’s the point in it all’, ‘the snp just moan’, ‘what’s in it for me’ and ‘Salmond is a fat tube’. I tried to point out the obvious and counter case but made no difference to them, full on negativity and ambivalence.
       
      Rather sobering experience and I am telling you I am not sure Yes Scotland can reach these people. It is all a bit worrying. 
       

    108. Patronsaintofcats says:

      @Weedeochandorris
      Won’t someone think of the kitties?
       
       

    109. Elizabeth says:

      Iain – I had almost exactly the same experience with a group of folk last week . I don’t understand how some folk can be so unquestioning and oblivious to what’s happening here, now  – in front of them!!!!! 

    110. Seasick Dave says:

      Iain
       
      Rather sobering experience and I am telling you I am not sure Yes Scotland can reach these people. It is all a bit worrying.
       
      These people can be as glib as they want for the moment but, when the big day comes, most of them will be a lot more focused.
       
      A No vote (or no vote) will mean a loss of benefits that we take for granted at the moment so that we can be on parity with England and so that we can afford nuclear weapons and this will supersede any concerns about Alex Salmond’s weight.
       
      Plus, for me, the biggest prize of all; the freedom to choose our own path in life, free of the Westminster priorities which distort the direction our country has to take. 
       
      Alex Salmond and the SNP are simply the facilitators, the rest is up to us as a people.
       
      Vote YES for a better Scotland.

      PS Point them to WoS!

    111. creag an tuirc says:

      @Iain
      It’s sad Iain, but these people fall into the Noron category, we have to write them off.
      Ian Davidson’s Newsnight pish about “We can’t have a naval base in the West, it’s the wrong side, we’ll be attacked from the East” This diagram shows how we are protected at the moment. http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/2001/british_forces_in_afghan_war/newsid_1652000/1652420.stm
      I know, I know it’s a Cbbc diagram, but I’m too wee and too stupid to understand grown up diagrams 🙂

    112. dmw42 says:

      Sorry for going off topic but the link below highlights what a complete and utter waste of taxpayer’s money Westminster politicians are.
       
      http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2013/TC02621.html
       
      Can you believe that Jim McGovern (Lab. Dundee), went to Tribunal to fight a case against being refused a £23.90 expenses reclaim? He ‘detoured’ from Dundee to Glasgow to attent a Labour party meeting on his way to Westminster and kicked up a stooshie for only being reimbursed the Glasgow to London expenses.
       
      Have you any idea how much it costs to pay a solicitor, pay representatives for IPSA to state the case for refusal and the costs of tying up the time of a Tribunal? Thousands, probably in the region of £20k!
       
      For £23.90!!!
       
      I’m pleased to say the Tribunal refused the appeal. I trust he’ll be paying his own costs though?

    113. Norsewarrior says:

      “Rather sobering experience and I am telling you I am not sure Yes Scotland can reach these people. It is all a bit worrying.”

      Some people will vote no regardless of what they are told, and otherrs will vote yes no matter what – there is a hardcore of about 30% in either camp.

      There is no point focusing on such people – its the 40% who are undecided or who could go either way that we need to focus on in order to win the referendum. 

    114. Laura says:

      I’ve just been informed by a friend living in South Africa that his local media are also ridiculing the PM on his threat of nukes from N. Korea.

    115. Cath says:

      “These people can be as glib as they want for the moment but, when the big day comes, most of them will be a lot more focused.”
       
      I’ve also had a lot of people who are totally anti-politician, disengaged, cynical, not interested and spew a lot of that same kind of thing. However, that said, one of the worst ones I came across spent about 20 minutes giving me a whole load of Better Together negativity – too wee, too poor, never survive, subsidised by England, hate Salmond etc, etc. I kept trying to get away, thinking he’s a lost cause.
       
      But at the end, when I finally got away, he said after me, “course if I do vote it’ll be yes. Screw those fuckers who left us this way”.
       
      So I’m not sure anything is as set in stone as it seems.

    116. proudscot says:

      Westie7 why are you surprised that the Labour supporting Kirsty Wark, standing in for fellow unionist Kaye Adams, selected pro-WMD pro-union commenters to air their biased views? After all, Wark is a close friend of former FM Jack McConnell and his wife Bridget, and is the BBC presenter who in a post-SNP election victory interview in 2007, infamously asked Alex Salmond if the Scottish people should be “afraid” following the SNP victory, then finished by dismissing him with the words, “Well, that’s enough from you!”
      Bunter, The Herald has been anti-independence, anti-SNP and anti-Salmond since the SNP formed the minority Scottish Government in May 2007. Their appointment of the Labour propagandist Magnus Gardham, formerly the purveyor-in-chief of unionist tripe at the Daily Rectum, only served to emphasise their pro-Westminster agenda. As for their Edinburgh fellow unionist propaganda sheet, it should be prosecuted under the Trades Description Act and forced to change their title to “The North British Person”!



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