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World speed-reading record broken again

Posted on December 02, 2014 by

We didn’t think we’d ever encounter a greater feat of rapid comprehension than Alistair Darling digesting and analysing the entire 670-page White Paper on independence in under two hours back in 2013, readers. But we’re delighted to reveal a new champion.

smithlolz

The Smith Commission began its work on 22 October this year, and concluded its deliberations on 26 November. If we assume it took Sundays off that’s 30 days, and we’ll also assume it worked full eight-hour days, which gives us a total of 240 hours (though we suspect in reality it was rather less than that).

It noted that it received “over 18,000” submissions from the general public, as well as 407 from organisations. If we divide 18,407 into those 240 hours, we learn that if the Commission did nothing other than read submissions, it would still have had to get through approximately 77 an hour.

That gives the Commission a generous 47 seconds to read and thoughtfully consider each submission, weighing up its pros and cons against the other 18,406 and contemplating how it might fit into the practical possibilities of the devolution process and whether it would be acceptable to the five political parties who were charged with reaching a compromise agreement.

We trust that everyone who bothered to send in their own proposals will feel as if they were treated in good faith and accorded the full respect they were due, and that the entire event definitely wasn’t just an insultingly transparent charade.

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    1. 02 12 14 19:02

      World speed-reading record broken again | FreeScotland

    2. 02 12 14 19:41

      World speed-reading record broken again - Speymouth

    3. 11 01 15 09:36

      Smith Commission: Context and Personal Submission | Darling Blogs

    202 to “World speed-reading record broken again”

    1. mogabee says:

      Goddammit, do you mean I spent a good 5 minutes on my reply for NOTHING?

    2. Juteman says:

      Call me a cynic, but maybe ‘they’ picked Smiffers because he seems like a nice bloke, and smiles a lot?

    3. Graeme Purves says:

      Is anyone doing a comprehensive, independent analysis of what people said to the Smith Commission? Scotland needs to know.

    4. drawdeaddave says:

      Can’t speak for everyone’s submission, but i did ask for full devolution of road signs as a trap, as i knew no one else would ask for it, and low and behold there it was, so he definitely read mine..

      Davie
      Amey Highways
      Regional Office

    5. Albantawe says:

      In fairness the 18,000 is said to include “signatures to petitions”.

    6. SqueuedPerspextive says:

      Well I am sorry Rev. but they read my submission and took it to heart! It said:-

      “Why waste time on this charade? Just phone London and ask what crumbs they want to try to pass off as the deal? Don’t waste time and effort considering the complexities of real powers – just dress up responsibilities as powers and pat yourselves on the back for a job well done – Vow Delivered!”

    7. Bill McLean says:

      Welcome drawdeaddave and I love that last post. Let’s hope one day we’ll have a last port for the union!

    8. Bill McLean says:

      ……. and a last post!

    9. Grouse Beater says:

      What should I say?

      Thank you No voters for getting Scotland more of nothing?

    10. Roberto Esquierdo says:

      The whole exercise was a complete scam.

    11. Paul says:

      My entry (as the word submission seemed more suited to those who voted to keep the union)was sent in good faith, and no doubt disregarded like many of the 18,000 plus.
      I did feel the need to add that the Myth commission should, if certain things weren’t to be devolved, explain to the Scottish electorate WHY said powers should be reserved.

    12. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Bit like all those who had to testify to Leveson who then saw that it had all been a pointless charade. Leveson’s recommendations were promptly ignored and everything went back to business as usual for the lawbreakers in the press.

      Of course if Smith does go the way of Calman and so many other talking shops, this time Labour and the tories won’t be able to wriggle out of it at the ballot box.

      (I’d include the yellow tories but everyone knows they are an irrelevance to scottish politics now and are going to get hammered in 2015 for their hypocrisy and lies.) 🙂

    13. Marcia says:

      Did they hire clairvoyants? Maybe Mi5 told them what all our submissions were as we typed them.

    14. Muscleguy says:

      So Smiffy earnestly asking for submissions and promising they would all be taken into account was a cynical ploy? Tell me it wasn’t so!

      I note they didn’t even mention Lalland Peat Worrier’s considered and reasonable idea for shifting the focus of devolved powers. That would have been far too radical for the unionists.

      A thought occurs. When we have removed the vast majority of unionist MPs from Scotland can we reconvene the commission with voting rights based on seats held? A bit like unions in the Labour party. Surely that would be democratic? That the SNP, the majority party in Scotland however you measure it was just one voice and with Westminster given a veto the whole thing was an anti democratic stitch-up.

    15. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Surely all those who submitted a proposal can expect the courtesy of an appropriate reply.

    16. It does look as though they had a lot of civil servants working on classifying the contents of the submissions: https://www.smith-commission.scot/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Summary-report-published.pdf. For example, they report that “Of the 18,788 submissions read, 2855 contained views on specific powers”, including “Welfare (all) […] Yes 611 and No 28”.

    17. Dointhebiz says:

      Have you never heard of “speed-reading”, silly?…sigh/

    18. Lollysmum says:

      @ drawdeaddave

      That was a belter of a third post on WOS-you’re going to fit right in here.

      BTW -Missey M also asked for road sign devolution so now you’re both happy. She used it as a trap for the Myth commission too.

    19. fred blogger says:

      we know you want change, (should be need change) however, of the 2m who voted no many wanted change, (murphy, 27/11/14).
      so in order to create the illusion of change, we rearranged the wording of the current package, and now present you with that, as if, this is change.
      the added benefit is that now we can remove even more capital, hopefully without many people noticing, and more importantly not being able to do sod all about it.
      bon appetit.

    20. Dointhebiz says:

      Well!…at least I know my proposal was read 🙂

      I gave the personal details of my bank account and asked Smiffy to pass em on to Jim Murphy…lo and behold my entire account was emptied 20 mins later

    21. Cassandra Lee says:

      Of course it was all a pointless charade. At the same time I still sent in a submission, stating unequivocally that I wanted devo max, which is what was promised by at least one ex politician. I took the view that OK we lost, I accept that, now let’s see you lying bastards cough up what you promised.

      I also sent in my comments because I am pretty sure if no-one had bothered (because it was a pointless charade), we would have been vilified. Well, more so than usual.

    22. Bob Mack says:

      The whole point of the Smith Commission was actually to decide what Scotland would NOT get rather than what it would. There is a significant difference. It succeeded in that remit, as every party who opposed independence has emerged contented at the outcome,WHICH SPEAKS VOLUMES.

    23. l says:

      Welcome to the site of the devil, as the dear old P&J would have us called, drawdeaddave. I see that you have been paying attention in the pre First post training school drawdeaddave. There is nothing worse than spending excruciating amounts of money sending folks to Pre First post training and they never learn a thing so congratulations again. 😉

      That gives the Commission a generous 47 seconds to read and thoughtfully consider each submission

      WOW!

      It took them THAT long to figure out which filing system, red bin blue bin yellow or dust bin, to throw each submission into! 😛

    24. ClanDonald says:

      Am I alone in having made a submission to the Smith Commission that has been fully delivered to my satisfaction?

      My request that they deliver “a derisory, inadequate and insulting offer which is then cynically presented as significant new powers by the media and which will then hasten a second indyref” appears to be the only one that Lord Smith has bothered to read.

      I’m well chuffed.

    25. Perhaps says:

      I can’t believe I’m bothering to reply to this rubbish, but the 47sec figure only works if one person worked on the entire document. If it was 10 people (far less than the number of people who actually did work on the document) it would be 4mins alone to look at the signiture on a petition.

    26. Clarinda says:

      I presume that the 18,000 submissions were in the rather large pile of what was reported to the MSPs today by Lord Smith as “unworkable”? He refused to give details of such ‘unacceptable’ proposals – I wonder what we all said?

    27. One_Scot says:

      I’m going go out on a limb here, but I don’t think he read any of them.

    28. AuldGranny says:

      oh Rev, you are awful. But I like you 🙂

    29. forkandspoon says:

      Brilliant and incisive analysis Rev. I was going to say the same thing myself, but you say it better. It’s the sarcasm laced with withering scorn that I like. They,(the UKOKS,) deserve no better.

    30. thomaspotter2014 says:

      It is of course going to be possible to put signs up at the border saying’NOT ENGLAND’

    31. Dr Jim says:

      Ah mean it’s jist bad though intit

    32. Stoker says:

      Rev,
      Only today we were having a conversation about this so thanks very much for your sums and the exact wording you have used about thoughtfully considering each and every submission and weighing up the pros and cons etc etc etc.

      All of which (apart from the mathematics) was spookily almost identical to the wording we were using today. We didn’t use any mathematics in our conversation because we weren’t too sure of the figures involved.

      However, after reading your article we fully concur and now have the verified statistical facts which confirms beyond any doubt that the Smith Commission was and is a smouldering heap of shite.

      Conclusion confirmed!

      btw, After reading the article above, a quick debugging sweep
      of our property quickly cleared you of any suspicious activity.
      🙂

    33. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      You’re surely not suggesting that his Lordship merely went through the motions.

      That would imply that the whole thing was a stitch up. Who would have thought?

    34. drawdeaddave says:

      Bill McLean says:
      2 December, 2014 at 6:30 pm
      Welcome drawdeaddave and I love that last post. Let’s hope one day we’ll have a last port for the union!

      That spooked me Bill, my drink of choice is “PORT” in fact i’m expecting a huge delivery at xmas it’s what everyone that cant be arsed thinking, gets me… beats socks n hankies. Thought you knew me there for a second, never been so glad to see a correction b4..

    35. Iain, Crieff. says:

      But it was “just an insultingly transparent charade.” so who’s surprised? So you can fool quite a lot of the people quite a lot of the time. We have to hope that Scotland is changing and that enough people will see through this rubbish.

    36. frankie goes to holyrood says:

      I saw a comment that the submissions would BE FORWARDED to the members of the Smith Commission.

      I therefore assume all submissions were received by the political parties represented on the commission and it was left for the parties to sift through them and decide if there were any new ideas that they wanted to raise.

    37. Stoker says:

      Caesar!ntawe says:
      2 December, 2014 at 6:27 pm
      In fairness the 18,000 is said to include “signatures to petitions”.

      Really?
      The Newsnet Scotland (devolve broadcasting powers) petition alone
      contained over 25,000 signatures.
      _________________________________

      Can anyone tell me what now happens to all those submissions.

      Are they whisked away to some secret government vault for future
      reference? Are they to be used to organise future cons & bribes
      against us by the filthy corrupt Unionists?

      What now happens to them?

    38. competition_addict says:

      When do I find out if I won the competition?

    39. Juteman says:
      2 December, 2014 at 6:22 pm
      Call me a cynic, but maybe ‘they’ picked Smiffers because he seems like a nice bloke, and smiles a lot?

      ===========================================

      Dr Mengele smiled at lot at the gates of Auchwitz.

      I do not think Smith is a nice person, he might seem it, but he didn’t get where he is today being nice. He was selected because he is a self-serving bastard, looking only for what is good for him, and of course he will be a diehard unionist.

    40. Flower of Scotland says:

      How can you say these things about such a nice man as Smith? It’s been such a fun month for him. Filled in a bit of time. He has giggled through all his interviews, and obviously finds more Scottish Devolution, hilarious!

      Not me! I spent a long time thinking of my submission!

    41. CameronB Brodie says:

      Don’t forget that Unionists view the universe from the perspective of the center (London) and not the periphery.

      I would imagine there were quite a few submissions that merited zero consideration. So, rounding the number of submissions down to 15,000, for example, results in each submission receiving 625000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Planck times of consideration. I think. 🙂

    42. X_Sticks says:

      Just out of interest, does anyone know how much Smith was paid for his unionist pish?

    43. Bob Mack says:

      As I have said many times, the key to Smith and Woods ,and many like them, lies in the prefix before their name i.e. Lord, or Sir, or Dame ,obe mbe or whatever. They are guardians of the establishment, first and foremost

    44. galamcennalath says:

      I would have said that the precise outcome was decided before it began.

      However, I believe all these stories that the Unionist reps weren’t actually authorised to negotiate and had to go back to their London HQs for each decision AND in the final few days those HQs pulled the plug on many of the powers.

      Did they take heed of what the Scottish people, Trade Unions, charities, civic bodies and half the political parties submitted/wanted ie. DevoMax …. Nope!

      I think we can say that some sort of DevoAWeeBitMore was the inevitable outcome.

      The Unionists will pay the price. It does surprise me they are willing to play fast and loose with their beloved Union, though.

    45. manandboy says:

      There is tragedy in TSC in as much as with 18407 submissions, we Scots actually believed we might get something. I mean it’s not like we have no previous with Westminster but even so we repeatedly forget how they treated us last time.

      Has gullibility become a national trait?

    46. Gallowglass says:

      What is the legal status of the commission?

      Is it subject to FOI?

    47. Gallowglass says:

      Or could you perhaps fish for a little bit more detail with a somewhat co-ordinated Subject Access Request?

    48. seanair says:

      thomaspotter2014
      Or, SCOTLAND–ENGLISH COLONY?

    49. Grouse Beater says:

      I am trying to balance the images of foodbanks with the dishes concocted in BBC’s Masterchef and I simply cannot get by the notion propaganda is all BBC is about.

    50. David Wood says:

      The only reason we, and other organisation were asked to provide our input was so that the pro-union agenda could say they were willing to listen and take ideas on board
      In reality most if not all of the items to make it to the report had probably already been decided, indeed even the last minute alterations to the drafts were probably done to pull the wool over the eyes of the pro-independence involvement with the Smith commission.
      I think it is safe to say that with the pro-independence parties, trade unions in Scotland and 3rd sector organisations decrying the Smith report as not nearly enough, and who can disagree with them, well the pro-union parties of course “Vow honoured” we hear them say.
      Don’t get me wrong there are some good things in the report , one of my happiest parts is the mineral access rights for underground onshore extraction, (NO FRACKING ON SCOTLAND) The possibility of renationalising the rail network, 16 and 17 year olds being allowed to vote , making the Scottish Parliament permanent and a few others, but it is not enough. and even though it is not enough it will be less than that once Westminster gets its corrupt hands on it.
      We need to keep the momentum going and go into May next year with a renewed optimism that we are going to get 50+ seats to pro-independence parties and take it Westminster. They wont know what’s hit them.

    51. Grouse Beater says:

      Only a fool would presume the chairman of the Weir Group would resist pressure or interference from Westminster in his quest for greater democracy for Scotland, and instead deliver radical constitutional change for the better.

    52. SquareHaggis says:

      Wouldn’t mind seeing a website going up where those who made submissions could post the originals.

      Would make for an interesting historical document for starters.

    53. Martin says:

      I’m ok with it. I reckon 47 seconds is longer than it took for me to send in “full fiscal autonomy including energy revenues.”

    54. Murray McCallum says:

      My understanding is that each and every submission was considered.

      The process involved all the individual, detailed and thoughtful submissions being carefully piled on a large table. Lord Smith would then survey the table, shake his head, snigger and then (having considered all the submissions) leave the room.

      It’s a very efficient process.

    55. Nana Smith says:

      Good for them.

      Renfrewshire snp councillors burn smith commission report

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj03aXgX_3o

    56. msean says:

      18,407 but only David Camerons submission was acted upon.

    57. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Good for them.

      Renfrewshire snp councillors burn smith commission report”

      That was a very silly thing indeed to do. Would have looked ludicrous even if they hadn’t made such a balls of it.

    58. haud on the noo says:

      O/T . What ever happened to votenoborders and their wads of cash? Squirreled away somewhere?

    59. Nana Smith says:

      Well Rev it’s not fit for anything else.

    60. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I can’t believe I’m bothering to reply to this rubbish, but the 47sec figure only works if one person worked on the entire document. If it was 10 people (far less than the number of people who actually did work on the document)”

      And how would that work? Who decides which bits to pass on to Lord Smith?

      Remember: they DIDN’T actually spend 8 hours a day 6 days a week just reading the submissions. But we’ve acted as if they did in order to make it look better for them.

    61. Liz says:

      I think i read on the site somewhere that they had a bunch of people reading the submissions who then entered relevant powers onto spreadsheet. They had a chart showing no. of submissions wanting devomax, full fiscal autonomy, various tax powers welfare powers etc down to some who said we should get no more powers. Not that it made a blind bit of difference to what they went on to discuss and finally cobbled together, or what we finally get after WM dilutes it away to nothing. Actually part of me wants that to happen – easier to ask for another referendum if they end up giving us nothing than trying to work with bits that cause more problems than they solve.

    62. Liz says:

      Further to previous comment. There are some interesting statistics in the Summary Report regarding the submissions that are worth looking at.
      https://www.smith-commission.scot/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Summary-report-published.pdf

    63. caz-m says:

      What we ended up with was the Strathclyde Commission put forward by the Tories in June.

      http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2014/06/strathclyde-commission-scotland-full-powers-income-tax/

      With the added cherry on top, devolving Airport Passenger Duty. (That’ll keep them quite)

      The Tories have done not too bad out of this Referendum campaign. They have finished off the Lib/Dems for being in coalition, they have finished off Scottish Labour for being part of Better Together, and with the Smith Commission, they can blame all the problems of Scotland on the SNP Government because they collect all the taxes.

      We need 40+ SNP MPs in Westminster. That will give us the power to carry out a few “alterations” to Smith’s Commission.

    64. BJ says:

      I asked when we can expect to have our own broadcasting company that concentrated on mostly Scottish issues. I don’t think they listened. !!!

    65. Graham says:

      Meanwhile, Monbiot praises the SG for it’s Land Reform intentions. Well worth a read for it’s excoriating critique of Wesminster politicians and the landed classes as well. http://www.monbiot.com/2014/12/02/breaking-the-silence/

    66. Paul D says:

      Turning it round; if that 18,000 included signatures, how come only 18000 folk made a submission? That works out at about 1% of those that voted YES, which I will grant you seems like a large number. However, the submissions of the local Yes groups must surely have taken it over 18,000 and that’s before you take in to account the number from Wings readers and the like.

      Maybe somebody “accidentally” placed the shredder immediately below the over flowing printer.

    67. manandboy says:

      After a few weeks in Westminster,
      pooling and sharing has been amended to
      pushing and shoving. That’s more like it.

      A spokeswoman for No.10 said,
      “Pooling and sharing just isn’t us.”

    68. Macart says:

      They binned them didn’t they?

      Just a feeling.

    69. Clootie says:

      X_Sticks says:
      2 December, 2014 at 8:03 pm

      He was pre-paid by the system. Why do you think Cameron phoned him!
      Smith stated it in his recent interview. “My secretary handed me note asking if I could take a call from the PM in 30 minutes”

      Cameron decided who would LEAD the review.

    70. crisiscult says:

      sorry for going o/t, but I notice from some article in some rag that Scottish Gov plans to reform land laws will face challenge in the courts. With that, the minimum pricing, and others, I was wondering if we know how much this costs the public purse, or if the Scottish gov win, I guess they don’t pay? I’m not against challenging Gov laws but I’d like to see the UK challenged a bit more. I could bring this back on topic by saying that my Smith Commission submission was that the UK Gov should indeed be limited by a constitution and stop taking its power from God.

    71. McBoxheid says:

      Iain Gray’s Subway Lament says:
      2 December, 2014 at 6:37 pm

      (I’d include the yellow tories but everyone knows they are an irrelevance to scottish politics now and are going to get hammered in 2015 for their hypocrisy and lies.) 🙂

      I prefer to think of them as the Jaundiced Tories, because they are as popular as liver cirrhosis.

    72. caledonia says:

      they must have read mine about the bbc and they must remember it as it was the one with all the sweary words..

      did broadcasting even get a mention

    73. caz-m says:

      I have a feeling Osborne is going to cut our block grant tomorrow, so that throws the whole outcome of the Commission up in the air again.

      Robert Burns: “To A Mouse”

      But Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
      In proving foresight may be vain:
      The best-laid schemes o’ mice an’ men
      Gang aft agley,
      An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,
      For promis’d joy!

    74. Tam Jardine says:

      I have to confess that I wrote a lengthy submission on the Smith site, tried to save it and pasted over it instead, losing everything. Having spent an hour on it, I just couldn’t bear trying to reproduce it so gave up.

      At night I wake up thinking ‘what if?’

      What if my submission had been sent, what if it were one of the half dozen that Mr Smith actually bothered to read. What if he had been so taken by the sheer power of my recommendations and insight that he ignored his brief and no voter mentality and actually pushed for the package I put forward. And what if he read it to the Ten and they all just nodded in silence.

      And the power of my submission transferred into a Smith Report that parliament could not ignore, could not tear apart or pare down.

      Sorry team – I may have setback the movement for greater autonomy for Scotland unintentionally by decades.

    75. Jim McIntosh says:

      @Stoker

      “Can anyone tell me what now happens to all those submissions.

      A bullet-point from the Smith Commission Summary Report:

      “Submissions from the public (with substantive evidence, analysis or data attached) and examples of the broad range of submissions received have been shared with the political parties and will be published on our website by the end of November.”

      Just for a laugh have a look at Annexes E-I of the ‘Resources’ section of the website, to which I assume that bullet-point refers. Out of 18,000 these are the ones selected to show the ‘broad range of submissions’….really!!

      Surprised they didn’t use my one that said: “Deer Mr Smith, can I pleese have a fier ingin for my chrismis”

    76. The Knome says:

      Those of us who read the Business For Scotlands submission will know, you needed 20 minutes at the very least to read it.

      If you wanted to take in its points you then needed hours if not days to study and give context(its main point was that no powers should be limited without good cause, which the Smith has failed to even bother writing).

      Its just another insult to the voters, those that believed in more powers (that still have to pass through parliament).

      And still the arrogance of some of the No’s is to tell us to shut up we lost.

      It still has not dawned on them that they have lost, spectacularly, and what will be passed if the outcry of many MP’s is anything to go by, will be a hindrance, a deliberate construction intended to cripple Scotland.

      And that can be concluded from the Smith Commissions report saying that Scotland, should in some way compensate for losses made by England for policy in Scotland where it succeeds and costs England economically (take a look at the air passenger tax).

      The legality of such cannot be sound surely.

    77. I think the whole Smith fiasco is just becoming a bore. Yes it is an insult to Scotland, but just as long as the msm reports that we are getting a fantastic deal and we try to refute it I think the public will lose interest. We should be preparing for the May election and doing our utmost to get as many pro/indy candidates elected to Westminster. Hopefully we can hold the balance of power and dictate our own terms.

    78. Graeme Doig says:

      Kevin McKenna’s appraisal of Smith. Worth a read. Some interesting quotes in last few paragraphs.

      ‘David Cameron has sold Scotland down the river’

    79. Graeme Doig says:

      Link for McKenna article Hopefully

      http://gu.com/p/43m2q

    80. Bob Mack says:

      Sorry to go off track, but I have just read the N.H.S. Grampian report and to be honest it is like Stafford without the bodies. Following on from N.H.S. Lothian, Lanarkshire, and Vale of Leven, this just gives Labour a big stick with which to attack the Government and an opportunity to enhance their own Kudos by highlighting what they will claim are failings of the Government. The S.N.P. really have to address the problems of Health Boards having too much autonomy and the power to conceal things “in house”, until, inevitably they are made public, and the blame falls on the Government who genuinely have not known that a problem existed . Think of the number of occasions over the past few years when it was discovered Boards were falsifying their figures to avoid problems. The Health Service will be a major battleground in this election and the S.N.P. must give themselves every chance of maximising patient satisfaction. It is no good to say I did not know about the problems to the voters. Better to say I am on top of everything. This can only happen if the Government exercises stronger Governance control over Boards who frankly have in some cases gone Maverick

    81. Stoker says:

      @ Jim McIntosh.
      LLF
      🙂

      btw, It’s true what they say, isn’t it, the truth will out.
      Time to blank that Tam Jardine, no wonder we got nowhere, eh!
      I suppose you think that’s funny, Tam?
      Wrecking the dreams, hopes and aspirations of millions.
      Thanks for nothing Tam. What a guy!
      🙂

    82. caz-m says:

      O/T

      The Peoples Voice – Peaceful Protest of The Daily Rag.

      Outside Daily Record Office,1 Central Quay, GLASGOW, G3 8DA

      Sunday, December 21, 2014, 12:00 (4 hours).

      http://www.indyscot.info/details.php?ref=110

      Tell Murray Foote and David Clegg what you think of the VOW.

    83. frazer allan whyte says:

      Did anyone NOT think the whole exercise was to get Scots busy talking/submitting just keep them busy. Does anyone think any kind of friendly discussion or fairplay is ever going to detach a moneymaker cum aristocratic playground from the rest of the British Empire? There’s nothing like busymaking to give the delusion of fruitful activity. As a well-known website once said,”Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul.”

      Lest anyone misunderstand this is not advocating violence – but look at history people! The BE was and is a mercantile institution and only responds to economic action. It was miitary possible to re-conquer the 13 colonies after the Napoleonic wars but it would have been bad for business. What is now Canada was a profitable colony but not as profitable as business with the US so the mother country throughly screwed over that country when – as controller of foreign affairs – treaties with the USA were almost inevitably detrimental to Canada.

      Aside from arms and speculation there isn’t much of an economy left – do you think anything except devo- functionally-zero is going to be graciously granted? Scotland is an earner and those highland estates are sooo handy as displays of obscene wealth. Ask a certain newspaper owner.

      Scotland needs to find a way of turning off the money faucet – nothing else will get their attention. Oil in the ground is not going to devalue. Oil pumped out to no benefit for Scotland is oil wasted. Nuclear waste dumped in Gareloch is forever. It’s consequences will also need to be paid for.

      Ask yourself which money-making part of the British Empire was ever let go out of the goodness of imperial hearts after earnest discussion and by mutual consent? Remember this is the same organization that came up with bacteriological warfare (Lord Jeffry Amherst), concentration camps (Boer War) and drug cartels (TWO! opium wars).

      Please don’t let 45% of the population and 100,000 pro indepence party members talk themselves into oblivion.

    84. manandboy says:

      We live under a regime which is perfectly capable
      of producing the Smith recommendations without
      bothering to read one single word of the submissions.

      It is easier to believe that than to hold as true that every one of them was read and read carefully in the time frame detailed by Stu above.

      Furthermore, for the Cabinet to set up the Commission before the referendum took place is unheard of. That aspect of the story is very suspicious.

    85. haud on the noo says:

      Bob mack : not wrong there. Its already obvious the BBC have continually attacked SG over this and will undoubtedly continue this with gusto for the next six months. I think labour and the beeb see this as the SGs weak point and they need to address this rapidly.

    86. Mealer says:

      The Brits won the referendum through fear and intimidation.They will continue to govern Scotland from London,England for the benefit of London,England.For the time being.Until we are stronger.The Smith commission is a British commission.

    87. boris says:

      It just doesn’t make any sense. The debate over whether or not the UK should replace the ever more expensive Trident Ballistic Missile Nuclear deterrent becomes more nonsensical upon each political statement in support. David Cameron pointed to the existing and ever expanding threat of nuclear attack from North Korea, (excuse me while I laugh) and the newly identified probability of Iran becoming a nuclear power, with weapons to boot. Yet, despite being apparently continually confronted by these rogue nations, Chancellor Osborne announced an eight per cent cut in the Foreign Office resource budget from 2015/16. Just at the time the nation’s need for an efficient, first class well-funded Foreign Office, diplomatic service is at its greatest.

      Another senior Tory recently threw his hat in the ring and suggested the case for retaining Trident hinged on events in the Ukraine. Such approaches are mindful of the, “cold war” which whilst it spawned, James Bond, Harry Lime, The Cambridge University Five spy-ring and their like friends in Oxford University it contributed nothing to international relations except the ever present thought in the minds of all humanity that they existed in a trap which could be sprung at the press of a button bringing about the mutual destruction of the human race as we know it. Talk about a life sentence with no parole.

      c. The final decision about replacement of Trident is to be taken soon after the next general election, (although it appears the Tory’s have pre-empted this by placing a £400M contract with the USA for the manufacture of nuclear delivery tubes) Meantime there is a lot of heat yet to be generated, most of it out-with Westminster, in the public domain, if an open, honest and inclusive debate is to be held. The new buzz words being bandied by knowledgeable NATO defence analysts nations are, “Smart Defence” and it is accepted this is the way forward in times of severe financial constraints worldwide. If embraced the measures will allow the UK to focus on delivering a properly financed, long term strategic support to it’s fellow NATO nations through smart power.

      The article is worth a read

      http://caltonjock.com/2014/12/02/removal-of-trident-and-nuclear-weapons-from-the-uk-by-2020-is-achievable/

    88. Camy says:

      Aw Blx – does this mean I’ve got no chance of getting my jet pack and a spandex jacket?

    89. Andy smith says:

      Been out tonight delivering leaflets for SNP Edinburgh west.
      Has reply from milliband’s office on an e mail request for copy of the vow.
      It was same as one stu highlighted before,but great to see SNP going on the attack and hitting 2 targets at same time,milliband and the daily retard.

    90. Cag-does-thinking says:

      Still the BBC are scratching to find a way that somehow our NHS is more shit than somebody else’s NHS. It’s been their mission for some considerable time and really the paucity of what they have found under FOIs that have been like confetti is that we spend more on locums than we used to and Aberdeen has some consultants who are being arseholes. Who knew?

      All in all it’s not quite the same as the lines of ambulances outside Welsh hospitals and that in England you might errm die from a variety of failures. Only Scotland seems to have a problem though according to the BBC. It is a bit Look Squirrel considering they seem to have to import most of their staff into Pacific Quay from BBC central, the number of plummy voices seem to be increasing.

    91. tartanpigsy says:

      Did someone just say “referendum” and “suspicious” again

    92. ronnie anderson says:

      I was short & sweet in my submission Full Devolved power a promised re the VOW.

      Oh I VOW to thee o my country give they jocks Fk all an thats what we got FK all.

    93. Graeme Doig says:

      caz-m

      ‘Tell Murray Foote and David Clegg what you think of the VOW.’

      How ‘peaceful’ can that demo be?

      Count me in.

    94. haud on the noo says:

      BBC, pathetic beyond belief.

    95. handclapping says:

      OT
      On the NHS Boards, remember that most of the members are still placemen from the days of Labour’s hegemony so it must be assumed that they will “dissemble”. It is therefore rather difficult for Government to oversee the running of our NHS.

    96. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The BBC and some of the press (The Herald and the Express in particular) have been hammering the NHS in Scotland for months. I talked today to TV journalist who said Eleanor Bradford ceased being a journalist and became a political hack about 18 months ago.

      I think most people know that the NHS is under terrific funding pressures which can very easily be laid a the door of Westminster and it is fairly easy to transform attacks on the NHS to attacks on the very hardworking staff in it doing their best under the Westminster cuts agenda.

      It is also essential to publicise the improvements in all areas since the SNP came to power against Labour’s record

    97. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @drawdeaddave

      Great idea getting control of road signs.
      Now we can show our pro-euro credentials and change all our signs from miles to kilometres.

      This would have many advantages as follows:

      Gets rid of the last of the obsolete Imperial Units – End of Empire!
      Complies with metric SI Units for kg,m,s.
      Commonality with rest of Europe.
      Pisses off the Red and Blue Tories.
      Really, really pisses off UKIP.
      and most importantly much easier for our kids to learn.

      If Canada and Mexico can do it with their bigger USA neighbour staying with miles then so can we.
      May also suit NI to go metric to blend in with Eire – more devolution required like corporation tax.

      I just knew there was method in your madness – km here we come!

    98. big jock says:

      The saddest part of this charade is this. The yes voters voted for full powers of independence. The no voters pretended they were voting for devo max when voting no. The truth is the majority knew that trusting Westminster was foolish and unrealistic. However it salved their collective consciousness from the guilt of betraying Scotland. The no voters weren’t duped. They wanted nothing and have got nothing. Hence its only moaning and outrage you hear coming from the yes voters. The no voters should be barnstorming Gordon Brown and picketing number 10. They aren’t because the majority are content with being shit and it really is that blunt!

    99. Paula Rose says:

      @ Dr JM Mackintosh – IMHO that is a very bad idea, we had a better educated population when we used units of measurement based on human proportions rather than for the ease of an “educated” elite.

    100. John Boyes says:

      I have been reliably informed that Smith was moonlighting during the time of the commission. Seemingly, by the time he and his team finished the other job he was doing for the M.O.D. (supplying 40 F75’s for HMS Queen Elizabeth) there weren’t many of the submissions left.

    101. Jim McIntosh says:

      @big jock

      Agree entirely. Said similar in a post not long after the referendum. Most NO voters knew exactly what they were doing, and used Brown’s intervention as an excuse to justify voting that way. The lack of uproar from the ‘Proud Scots but…’ brigade since the SC was released just proves that.

      FFS who would ever really believe a word that man says. No wonder he spends all his charity money on expenses, he has to buy an extra 1st class seat for his massive ego.

    102. Dr Jim says:

      Well, it was full bore SNP bad tonight eh? Anybody see the guy on Scotland tonight supposed to be talking about Revenge of the Sith commission? never mentioned it, SNP bad, you lost, no independence, 55% 45%, get over it, use the powers you’ve got, curl up and die, we won,…I added the curl up and die thing for comic effect, but man, this guy was bad….I usually dont get ruffled but i was doing the high voice thing….calmed down now…

    103. Bob Mack says:

      @handclapping,@ Dave McEwan Hill
      Know what you are saying, but that is why we have a Minister of Health, who will inevitably take most of the flak, Westminster cuts or not. I suppose I am looking for a way for Government to keep in close touch with what happens in Boards, rather than a pure reliance on their somewhat historically manipulative self assessments which as we already know are used for political capital.

    104. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @big jock
      I think Irvine Welsh got it right and nailed it in Trainspotting with his Renton diatribe “It’s shite being Scottish”.
      Loads of the Scots are like that and that is why they voted No but many of the younger ones are not – They are our future.

    105. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @Paula Rose
      These imperial things are too complicated for me even with me being one of the last of the Natural Philosophers. It is kg,m and s for me.

      Do you not think it would be a hoot if Nicola announced after 2016 that Scotland was going fully metric? 🙂

    106. yesindyref2 says:

      David Cameron of course, in a typically open-handed and generously non-political fashion, appointed a Labour ex-secretary of state to head up the Commission so that none of the brown stuff clings to him and his party.

    107. Paula Rose says:

      @ Dr JM Mackintosh – nope.

    108. yesindyref2 says:

      Dr JM Mackintosh
      Going metric would have the advantage our youngsters would be less attractive to employers down south, so we might have less of a talent flight to London.

    109. Tackety Beets says:

      @ Dr Jim

      Scouser ? ” Carlm Dorwn !Carm Dorwn ! ”

      yea but no but , FFS the man was fair Preachin ” Its NO , get back in yer box ! ”

      #Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp was exemplary as always , a credit to Scotland

    110. caz-m says:

      Graeme Doig

      See you at the Record on Sunday 21st, treat you to a pint afterwards, still to buy Ronnie Anderson one as well. I hope the National is there to give us maximum coverage on the Monday morning.

    111. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @Dr Jim
      I have detected an extreme case of BBC Stress. It can be very serious and delilabating.

      Therefore, for immediate relief I suggest funding G.A. Ponsonby at the following site with your cancelled TV licence funds…

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/how-the-bbc-stole-the-referendum

    112. caz-m says:

      Latest news from tomorrow’s Autumn Statement is that the Tories want to cut £25Billion in the first TWO years of the next parliament.

      Yes, £25Billion in the first TWO years. And he wants to make in law, saying that whoever is in power must cut the deficit by £25Billion in the first two years.

      They are meant to be putting it through Parliament on Thursday.

    113. Paula Rose says:

      @ Dr JM M – Try decimalising time.

    114. Stoker says:

      @ Dr.JMM (11.34pm).

      Can i add a suggestion to your idea –
      just for the utter pissing them off factor.

      How about we also use the “road sign powers” to seriously hack them off by:

      (a)-Change every single street name that has the slightest English connection, ie; George Square, Union Street, Albert Road etc etc.

      (b)-And lets make the dominant wording, where possible, Gaelic with the English translation only half the size, in brackets, under the Gaelic wording. It’s a form of education.
      😉 🙂

    115. Paula Rose says:

      Stoker dear – Gaelic, Scots then any other european language xx.

    116. heedtracker says:

      They proabably all asked our imperial masters for the exact same thing, devo -MAX! BBC R4 news at 10 had weird debate in Manchester for the wanting of Scotland style devo in the real North. But it was bizarre hearing say the manager of Manchester airport moan about Scotland getting control of air pasenger duty and another guy wanted devo max for Manchester like what Scotland got given. No attempt to correct by BBC ligger either and they were all councillors and business heads. THE VOW fraud trundles along.

    117. Paula Rose says:

      Even better – no road signs.

    118. ClanDonald says:

      Does the income tax paid by North Sea workers get classed as Scottish or does it go to the ex-regio country that they invented to hide Scotland’s wealth?

    119. Capella says:

      @ Nana
      National looking good again. Land reform is a huge issue and long past time something significant was done about it. Glad to see Andy Wightman is getting some space to put the case. Was at a talk he gave in darkest Aberdeenshire last week. Drove in the dark through rain and fog to a packed hall in the middle of nowhere (Glenbuchat actually!).
      Great evening, packed hall, good talk.
      RE Smith Commission: it has clearly failed. I like the idea floated on an earlier thread for a Constitutional Convention to be re – constituted with a remit to draw up realistic new powers for the Scottish Government. Let’s get on with that and not waste any more time discussing the dead duck called the Smith Report.

    120. John says:

      47 seconds to scan, analyse digest, comprehend, evaluate, categorize and assess a submission!

      The Smith Comission is a diligent, efficient and effective body.

      Must’ve had a lot of migrant workers on the case. A clear advantage of being in the European Union n’est-ce pas?

    121. Stoker says:

      Aye, Paula, maybe we better run with your 2nd idea – no signs.

      Either that or drastically reduce the speed limits to give us time to read the things and work out what one we’re supposed to be following.
      🙂

    122. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @Paula Rose
      SI unit for time – second = 9192631770 periods of the radiation of the caesium 133 atom.

      SI unit for distance – metre.

      No need for hand, feet, yards inches, cubits, furlongs, fathoms,miles….
      All imperial units are dead apart from the pint beer glass and the mile for roads.
      Time to move on…
      And now within our power!

    123. Chic McGregor says:

      Come on, you guys really believe the report wasn’t written before the X Commission (Smith is a safe enough sounding value for X) conevened?

    124. Chic McGregor says:

      Convened even.

    125. Paula Rose says:

      @ Capella and others – my preference is for a vision of ‘devo-max’ to be presented to the people as their preference, I think this is what Wingman 2020 was getting at. How this is achieved is a problem. Like so many aspects (I would like to see a constitution for an independent Scotland) how this can be achieved is a matter for debate.

    126. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @Paula Rose
      admittedly although the decimal units:
      pico second,
      nano second,
      micro second ,
      millisecond,
      and second have caught on – the following have not unfortunately…
      kilo second ~ 17 minutes.
      mega second ~ 11.5 days
      giga second ~ 31.7 years.
      I blame the ancient Assyrians? 🙂

    127. Paula Rose says:

      @ Dr JMM

      To understand 60 is to understand the human scope of mathematics for daily living – the babylonians and the neolithic people of the north British (as they are now known) isles worked this out 5,500 years ago.

    128. Paula Rose says:

      @ Dr JMM – One has to consider the relationship between the size of the moon and the fact that it can create an eclipse – but I think the Rev will get somewhat pissed off if we clutter his main threads with such discourse, happy to continue on O/T or other academic sites.

    129. gus1940 says:

      Is there any reason why Smith cannot be compelled to collate all the submissions which were rejected and produce a report giving the reasons and most importantly the justification for rejection.

      If they cannot be compelled to produce such a report can copies of the submissions not be obtained under a FOI Request and a panel of volunteers collate and analyse them prior to producing a report. Although this may not result in provision of reasons for rejection it could be followed up with requests to Smith for the reasons for individual rejections.

    130. GraemeinChina says:

      Like Davie above, I think mine might have been read as I asked for devolution of aspects of immigration and used the old program where students stay 5 years after graduation as an example. Visas to remain for students did make it in there. What I asked for in full was scotland only visas for living and working so that we could grow the working population.

      However, I can easily believe that was coincidence and it was all planned on the bag of a fag packet a long time before the report came out.

    131. Tattie-bogle says:

      The question on everybody’s lips’ just who submitted that Road Signs should be fully Devolved ?

    132. Haggis Hunter says:

      They ignored my request for devolved broadcasting (something LabServative had in the first line of their 67 page devo nano waffle, you are not getting anything except raised taxes as you are stupid jocks document)also ignored my request that all revenues raised in Scotland, stay in Scotland.

    133. Haggis Hunter says:

      Wow they have pushed the boat out on the signs. What about airgun regulation, got to have that.

    134. heedtracker says:

      BBC R4 Today going after Nicola Sturgeon for her over estimation oil prices and isn’t it a lucky thing England is there for us, although their finance ligger fluffed his lines with “Sturgeon said oil would be $120 a barrel, I mean $110, next year.” Different day, same BBC attack on Scotland. How is Norway dealing with oil price drop BBC?

    135. AuldA says:

      I don’t know if someone pointed this out, but here, Stu’, you are slightly of bad faith. Nobody said there was only one person to read all submissions, contrarily to what your figures suggest.

      @Paula Rose: 60 was chosen by the Babylonians because it is one of the lowest integers to admit a great number of integer divisors, so that it can be divided exactly.

      60 = 2 x 2 x 3 x 5

      So 60 can be divided by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30, whereas 10 can only be divided by 2 and 5.

      And for 360 = 60 x 60 is even better (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, 18, 20…)

    136. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I know why the Noble Lord Smith of Kelvin was chosen to conduct this “Readers Digest” suggestion for Devo FA for the Northern Unwashed.

      It was because he has nice teeth.

    137. paul gerard mccormack says:

      dear rev. yes, obviously never mind the bollocks, here’s the smith commission. re arithmetic, your statement is true if we treat the smith commission as a single entity rather than a multiple, having 20 boys in a back room with their blue pencils out. Even then, that’s just 15 minutes per suggestion to be read, considered, discussed etc. – Not happenin, as they say. What a shallow pathetic gesture. Do we ever learn?

    138. Scotspine says:

      BBC Jockanese on about Carmichael heralding millions of pounds boost for NHS in England and Wales and it will have spin off benefits for land of the sweaties. Weasel boy Danny challenging SNP to invest in the NHS. And so they continue…… “its shite being scottish”

    139. manandboy says:

      It is 9.30pm when a middle-aged woman leaves her home to visit her mother who is ill. She plans to stay overnight. It is mid-winter and it is dark.
      Half way there the traffic is diverted by means of road signs. The diversion is quite long but eventually it ends. The woman knows this only because there are no more signs. What she doesn’t know, is where she is. She’s lost.
      Anxiety soon turns to panic as she completely loses her bearings, and with no road signs to help her, she stops the car and begins to cry.
      Then she remembers her phone and calls her husband, but she is unable to tell him where she is. The husband makes several suggestions but the panic acts like a firewall and all are rejected. Then she spots a pub some way down the road.
      Now a wreck, she finds the help she needs there, and fifteen minutes later she arrives at her mother’s house.

      This is all true. The reason I tell the story is to highlight the difficulty of thinking clearly when anxious, or worse when panic takes hold. To lose the ability to think clearly can be a huge disadvantage as well as a major impediment to progress.

      Dear readers, this is also a major goal of UK propaganda generally and of the Smith/Cabinet proposals in particular.
      With Smith, we set off for Devo Max and ended up getting lost.
      Now we don’t know where we stand and furthermore we don’t know what to think.
      WM says Vows delivered, but we are nowhere near our destination. Exit clarity, enter confusion. Now, everyone wants to know where we go from here. Some say this way, others say that way. Cameron and Smith just smile. Job done.

      The point is – try always to keep your mind clear. Otherwise, good thinking is simply not possible.

    140. Famous15 says:

      Not quite understanding the outcry about Renfrewshire councillors burning a copy of the Smith Report as a useless document I deferred to my wife who understands human nature better than me.

      She found it offensive too and would suspect that her Unionist friends would view it as similar to burning the Bible or the Qoran.

      Holy writ!

    141. Nana Smith says:

      Carmichael at it again…

      Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael said the recent fall in the value of oil means that if Scotland had voted to leave the UK it could have been facing a spending gap about the same size as the entire budget for the health service north of the border.

      https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/70016/mp-claims-drop-oil-price-left-huge-spending-gap-independent-scotland/

    142. caz-m says:

      heedtracker 7.49am
      “BBC R4 Today going after Nicola Sturgeon for her over estimation oil prices and isn’t it a lucky thing England is there for us,”

      Heedtracker, we better not hear about Westminster complaining about Oil prices. They were the ones who said they could cope with ALL the fluctuations in Oil prices, broad shoulders and all that crap.

      They told us before the referendum that it was only Scotland who was too poor to cope with such things. So shut up Westminster and deal with the oil price, NO sympathy up here for you.

    143. caz-m says:

      Call Kaye of BBC Scotland, having a phone-in this morning about the “book burning” in Paisley yesterday.

      Every Unionist is condemning it and are wanting blood. How could anyone stoop to such a level? Why would anyone want to burn a copy of the Smith Commission?

      Burn Alex Salmond and BBC Scotland see it as a big joke, burn a copy of a crap report and they want to hang the culprits from the nearest tree. Double standards again BBC Scotland.

    144. manandboy says:

      @ famous 15

      Unionists and Independence-ists share the same human nature.
      After that it’s chalk and Camembert.

    145. Sinky says:

      Doh! How thick are unionists?

      Even if we had voted YES we would still be in UK for another two years by which time oil prices will have risen as far east economies improve.

      Anyway where is the UK Oil Fund that would have evened out the fluctuations

    146. Nana Smith says:

      On the burning of the smith paper, it may have been a silly stunt but these councilors are seeing what the cuts are doing to people and know the cuts still to come will bring severe hardship to many.

      What I find offensive is having the likes of Lamont,Brown,Darling and other labour scum scaring our old folks with warnings of higher prices, no pensions and other such rubbish. I’m offended by the behaviour of Brown and the bbc spouting lies about federalism and home rule when all along they knew it was nothing but a BIG FAT LIE.

      I’m offended daily by the crap spewing from what passes for a media,reporting on deaths from benefit curbs, children going hungry and homeless, pensioners being told to heat one room while westminster politicians heat their stables and charge the taxpayer for the privilege.

      I’m offended by the sheer hypocracy coming from the mouths of ("Tractor" - Ed)s who write for the so cslled media, Cochrane, Wilson, mcternan and all the rest.

      Where was the outrage when Glen Campbell tore up the SNP papers.
      Where was the outrage when the effigy was burnt.

    147. jackie g says:

      O/T

      Beware!

      MSM are going at it all guns blazing and this is only the start.

      Article in the Metro this morning, showing DC wife feeding the Homeless.

      According to Dave she does this often, just happens to be a smiling photo of her and of course the happy hobo!

      Then on another page we have a statistic that 4000 Scottish children will be homeless this Christmas.

      I doubt very much that the Cameron’s will see the Irony.

    148. manandboy says:

      Englishness has been described as effortless superiority.
      Under Cameron it’s now just effluence.

    149. ScottieDog says:

      @heedtracker,
      Yeah same old same old, London props us up.
      Yet when I ask people where the actual capital is that runs the ‘powerhouse’ uk I never get an answer. That’s because there isn’t any. It’s a case of capitalism without the capital.
      An economy based on financial speculation propped up by the tax payer, the UK’s level of leverage is second only to Japan’s.
      Where, if any, is the capital? It’s in the North Sea of course.

    150. Free Scotland says:

      What? Somebody burned copies of the Smith Report? Shocking! As an austerity measure, it should have been cut into sensibly sized rectangles and made available as toilet paper for use by those slippery customers who hang out in the House of Lords.

    151. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Free Scotland

      Hope the ink is made from petro-chemicals and is toxic.

    152. Stoker says:

      Excellent post @ 8.58am Nana.

      I’m with you 100%.

      That entire post should be printed off and slapped into the face of every one of these b@st@rds every time they open their traps.

      Well said Nana.

    153. Grouse Beater says:

      The burned the wrong paper – should have been The Vow.

    154. Arabs for Independence says:

      Sent a text to BBC to ask why there was no phone-in when Campbell tore up, on tv, a copy of the SNP manifesto.

      Who is this guy White on Call (U)Kay?

    155. desimond says:

      Smith Commission Showbiz news:
      Youso N’Dour and Neneh Cherry to re-record (4)7 Seconds*.

      *Westminster have asked the following lyric be removed


      I assume the reasons that lead us to change everything
      …….
      And there’s a million voices (x2)
      To tell you what you should be thinking

    156. Author_Al says:

      I buy the National occasionally. I can’t stand the daily herald though. My backing for the National is therefore with a mixed blessing. Meanwhile a herald cub reporter has come up with the following crud about Wings.

      http://tinyurl.com/oa2b6qn

      In what way is Wings a controversial site? Because it has proper journalism? Methinks the herald should be concentrating on why the Smith Commission is such a stitch up…

    157. Sinky says:

      Will someone in the media not point out that even without oil revenues Scotland’s GDP per head is 99% of that of the UKs. Oil is a bonus.

      “If its geographic share of UK oil and gas output is taken into account, Scotland’s GDP per head is bigger than that of France.

      Even excluding the North Sea’s hydrocarbon bounty, per capita GDP is higher than that of Italy.

      Oil, whisky and a broad range of manufactured goods mean an independent Scotland would be one of the world’s top 35 exporters.” (Financial Times 2 /2/14)

    158. chalks says:

      What will the oil price be in 2016 when we would be independent?

      Would a Scottish Government have taken so long to introduce tax breaks/relief? Doubt it.

      @Nana

      Unfortunately the SNP have to be whiter than white given the negative publicity any such stunts produce.

      The councillors should know better, one of them has been a recurring candidate in renfrewshire for years. Total farce and pretty ridiculous media attention grab.

    159. Brian Powell says:

      Looking at the photo of the councillors, as far as I could make out it was a sheet of paper with the Smith Commission typed on it.

    160. Luigi says:

      Which is more offensive to the Scottish people:

      Three councillors burning a copy of the Smith Report?

      Or Westminster shredding the agreed contents of the original Smith Report, hours before it was released?

    161. handclapping says:

      Unfair to Smith Commission!

      The bulk of the 18,000 are signatures on petitions, individual copies of form letters and claimed respondants to surveys. The actual number of reasoned or individualistic submissions seems to be 2855. Not so hard to read.

    162. Robert Peffers says:

      Tell me, Rev Stu, did you factor in the time to open the envelopes and extracting the letters from postal submissions?

    163. Sinky says:

      If Wings is controversial then what adjective would describe those bastions of the Union The Daily Mail and the Daily Express that church out absolute garbage every day.

    164. Marcia says:

      Anyone have a recording of the moment when the BBC’s Glenn Campbell tore up the SNP’s 2007 Holyrood manifesto live on Reporting Scotland? If so, send it the BBC.

      Re Carmichael and the oil prices. How is his government going to plug the gap of the income they were banking on? For Scotland it is a bonus, for the UK it is a necessity.

    165. caz-m says:

      Westminster put the first Smith Commission, giving us more powers over welfare, through the shredder. No BBC Scotland staff complained at that. Did Glen Campbell not rip up an SNP paper a while back as well.

      BBC Scotland’s over reaction to the burning video is a set-up, just another stunt to make the SNP look bad. Along the same lines as their reports regarding the Scottish NHS. They will try anything to get their political wing(Scottish Labour) re-elected.

    166. gus1940 says:

      I still cannot access Craig Murray’s blog and that has been the case since late last week.

    167. farrochie says:

      I didn’t make a submission to Smith.

      What I did was write a letter requesting a copy of “the vow”. (I even enclosed an SAE).

      However, Smith sneeked in the Interim Report the following footnote

      *NOTE: Devo max, home rule and the vow are all terms used by civic
      organisations and the public and are not terms used by the Commission

      http://www.smith-commission.scot/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Interim-report-submissions.pdf

      So all the things that were “promised” in various formats, were to be ignored in any case by Smith. All those submission containing those words would be effectively ignored. Who knew that?

      And, “No”, I didn’t get a reply from Smith Commission.

    168. @ Luigi

      Willie Rennie :

      Which is more offensive – I ask you.

      Three councillors on some youtube video stunt and the burning of some political report papers outside their offices (many feel they were burning rubbish anyway – a few politico’s and an idiot running a failing party become offended). No one was physically hurt.

      Or the offensive idiocy of ‘No Thanks’ crack troops & heroes of British Construct : Nationalist Unionism / (BritScot Loyalist Movement / OO ) that displayed itself on September 19th in George Sq.

      The Saltire was burned, women were punched and assaulted, A YES suppoerter was stabbed, all while the world witnessed online (Not via BBC of course)and never once did Rennie, Brown or Darling comment, or apologise for the offence.

      All was ignored by these British Establishement agents as usual. Disgust and contempt doesn’t cover it.

    169. Roll_On_2014 says:

      gus1940

      I still cannot access Craig Murray’s blog and that has been the case since late last week.

      Do you mean this site: Not having a link or bookmark to the site I did a google of ‘craig murray’ and it was top of the search list and I had no problem getting onto his site.

    170. Ananurhing says:

      Heedtracker.
      “How is Norway dealing with oil price drop BBC?”

      Don’t know, but their oil fund now generates more income than their O&G revenues, and their shipyards seem to be doing rather well.

      http://www.offshoreenergytoday.com/kleven-to-build-six-salt-ahts-for-maersk/

      Six anchor handling vessels for Maersk. Two ocean going luxury yachts for New Zealand billionaire. Full order books plus options.

      Guess that’s what happens when you get a 95% ‘Jah’ vote in an indy referendum.

    171. Roll_On_2014 says:

      gus1940

      In fact if you try Stu’s Craig Murray’s link under ‘UK Politics’ it takes you to the same site.

    172. Ken500 says:

      Renewables are overtaking nuclear and with mire investment could overtake Oil. Just as Alex Salmond predicted.

      Total taxes raised in UK £490Billion. Total taxes raised in Scotland £53Billion. Scotland has lost £4Billion+ in Oil tax revenues a year, since 2011. Osbourne/Alexander put Oil taxes up 11% (£2Billion) in 2011 Budget – now up to 90%. Scotland loses £Billions in tax revenues going through City of London HQ’s and tax evaded. HMc is not fit for purpose. Scotland has to pay £4Billion a year loan repayments on money it doesn’t borrow or spend. Scotland coukd save £3Billion by a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink and scraping Trident/illegal wars. – £10Billion+

      The rest of the UK borrows and spends £100Billion more on the private sector. Pro rata £10Billion.

      Scotland would be better off Independent.

    173. call me dave says:

      Well said Marcia!

      Good old auntie. Britannia waives the rules.

      Still it was a bit daft. 🙂

    174. SquareHaggis says:

      The Smith Commission burning is of a bit of a joke.
      Except it’s not that funny.

      C’mon Scotland!
      There must b 100’s of imaginative ways to make use of this item.

      A doorstop,
      A prop for a shoogly chair leg,
      A table mat,
      Fly swat,
      Chopping board,
      Parcel padding,
      Gerbil bedding – the list is endless right up to the recycle bin.

      Not particularly imaginative examples but you catch my drift.

    175. author_al says:

      @handclapping

      As there were only a few thousand submissions I would have expected them all to be on a website so we could read them. A few specially selected bland ones have made it, the rest were perused and judged by nameless individuals, meaning that the politicians got bland filtered results to reflect on/ignore. Stu’s point is hyperbole to indicate that the commission barely had time to reflect on what sandwiches to have for lunch, let alone make considered decisions about devo. Smith was a stitch up. To have its contents watered down by the cabinet smacks of an undemocratic process. Surely it was the House of Commons job to give it a kicking? Won’t be much left by the time it’s law. Meanwhile Gordon Brown heads for the lords to help stomp on the remains.

    176. Arabs for Independence says:

      Call kaye this morning. Unionist journalist (Whyte?) says that the majority of Scots happy with Smith report – kaye has no comment. One hour later caller says that 71% of Scots not happy with Smith report – kaye jumps down his throat and asks for source – caller replies ICM poll. Kaye ends show.

    177. Mealer says:

      Independiente,
      it’s important we remember that.

    178. Roll_On_2014 says:

      With regards to Oil prices my view is that the Western regimes (mainly USA UK) have leaned on oil producers such as OPEC to turn up the oil taps in order to reduce prices and hit the Russian economy.

      Therefore in the short term we benefit from reduced oil prices but in the long term as it returns a lower take in the economy we will pay for it.

      As I said it is my view and I could be wrong.

    179. Stoker says:

      Brian Powell says:
      3 December, 2014 at 9:52 am
      “Looking at the photo of the councillors, as far as I could make out it was a sheet of paper with the Smith Commission typed on it.”

      Correct, Brian.

      There was no burning of copies of the Myth Report.

      They deceived viewers into believing they were burning copies.

      Now, i wonder where they got their inspiration? Vow anyone?
      ___________________

      Author_Al says:
      3 December, 2014 at 9:48 am
      “In what way is Wings a controversial site? Because it has proper journalism?”

      Correct, Al.

      WOS is portrayed as “controversial” because it exposes the filthy lying Unionists and their propaganda machine for what they truly are.

      They can’t control the honesty and freedom of expression which rightfully oozes from WOS. They can’t shut us up.

      The truth hurts and these scumbags are in agony, thanks to WOS.

    180. Arabs for Independence says:

      The Smith Group (same guy) produced a report regarding the inactivity of young people in Scotland. Smith made these comments/recommendations in 2011. Pity he didn’t re-read some of the issues before he produced his latest fire hazard report.

      “Scotland and its political leadership must now concentrate on the outlook for those young people leaving learning and training and attempting to access the labour market”

      “Political leadership, with the funding to back it, is required to give Scotland the best chance of reducing youth unemployment”.

      “That Ministers examine the case for SDS taking control of DWP training for work spending. The Group accepts that the benefits system is reserved but a powerful argument can be made that training for work is, in fact, a crucial element of Scotland’s economic development strategy”.

      http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2011/11/SmithGroupReport

    181. handclapping says:

      @author_al
      I agree that Smith was never a Commission as the Kilbrandon Commission. More of a coloquium to establish the minimum that Scottish politicians would require to stop them squabbling. The big mistake is to assume that politicians represent anybody other than themselves nowadays.

      Why I had gone to the bother of reading the report on the representations was to see if there was any correspondance between the things most asked for and the recommendations. Like Transport, give them road signs. I’m sure some political anorak will do that some day but in view of the shortness of my remaining life I decided there were other things I could better do, like have breakfast. 🙂

    182. Macca73 says:

      I think the Rev. (quite rightly) has paid his attentions on just how little attention was paid to the submissions and more on what was actually delivered which was a big
      Hee Haw!

      Given that is the case I think it’s more about how those who voted to stay as part of the union percieve it as something to beat the SNP with because they can only do one thing according to this report and that’s raise taxes so then they can point the finger and say “see, We TOLD you these guys don’t know how to make it work even WITH more power” hoping that the electorate will buy it.

      What I can’t wait for is for John Swinney to find something,ANYTHING that they haven’t thought of as a result of these powers to give something back to people to prove that with more powers it CAN work. That way we’re assured that the SNP will win votes whilst the Westminster groups are left looking increasingly stupid. They may try to claim it for themselves as victory but I don’t think that will wash.

    183. chalks says:

      @Roll_On_2014

      I think that’s more of a by-product of OPEC…they haven’t actually turned on the taps, they’ve just maintained their 30 millions barrels of oil per day….venezuela and nigeria wanted them to reduce it to 29 million which would result in the price going up, as their economies are heavily reliant on it….but the Saudi’s are basically trying to get the US to stop their fracking operations, some of the newer projects have a $60 break even price, they have a different price for their oil, whereas brent trades higher….

      Anyway, the saudi’s don’t have to cut their oil production, but if it stops the US from some of their fracking then so be it…this whole thing is in the majority to do with US fracking, they’ll be oil/gas import free by 2020….OPEC don’t want that for obvious reasons.

      Another issue the eurozone away to go into recession followed by China….then there is Iran and the Saudi’s again trying to curb their nuclear efforts by maintaining production as they don’t want Iran having Nuclear plants etc

      Don’t let yourself think the UK is happy with the oil price, they aren’t. And in no way do they have the clout to tell countries in OPEC what to do.

    184. Dan Huil says:

      @macca73 Surely they could use the new income tax rule to hit landowners?

    185. StevieMcB says:

      BBC “K” is a Britnat propaganda tool, its never going to give any fair airtime to independence.

    186. Roll_On_2014 says:

      Does anyone know the year when youth unemployment started to increase?

      No!

      Well the answer is 2005 under NuLabour well before the crash in 2008.

      Gordon Brown & Alistair Darling in reality mode:

      April 2009
      Alistair Darling’s budget pledge: ‘we won’t throw a generation on to jobs scrapheap’.

      Alistair Darling will today promise to create work for up to 250,000 of Britain’s young unemployed in a “budget for jobs” that will coincide with a fresh surge in joblessness to its highest level since Labour came to power in 1997.

      In an attempt to contrast government action with the Conservative response to the mass unemployment of the 1980s, the chancellor will pledge not to return to the days when a generation was “abandoned to a future on the scrapheap”.

      November 2009
      Secret Labour plan to axe spending on training for young people.

      Confidential papers obtained by The Observer show that, while Brown and his ministers have suggested they are raising investment in training, skills and apprenticeships, behind the scenes they are preparing some £350m of cuts for 2010-11 that will slash the number of training places on offer by hundreds of thousands.

      What really fecks me off is when NuLabour, at all levels, whinge on about youth unemployment. What a load of two faced gits.

    187. Chic McGregor says:

      Urging the First Minister to break the law by curbing an act of political expression, which is a human right guaranteed by the ECHR, is irresponsible and quite possibly an illegal act itself.

      People must be allowed to make political protest and make their opinions known by any legal means they see fit.

      Having said that, protesters should demonstrate more foresight in regard to how their protest may be distorted by a scurrilous unionist/media cabal.

      A simple letter of personal rejection to the Smith Commission would be an uncontentious response, perhaps with a summary of what is actually on offer from the report written on the back of the stamp used.

    188. Roberto Esquierdo says:

      Our time WILL come

    189. Roll_On_2014 says:

      chalks

      Thanks for that, it certainly reshapes my view on the subject.

    190. starlaw says:

      Kaye got it right this morning, the burning of a couple of sheets of paper every bit as horrid as the burning of Guy Fawkes or Joan of Arc, gone yersel Kaye . . get a life

    191. Robert Peffers says:

      Luigi says:3 December, 2014 at 9:54 am:

      “Which is more offensive to the Scottish people: Three councillors burning a copy of the Smith Report? Or Westminster shredding the agreed contents of the original Smith Report, hours before it was released?”

      Wouldn’t know about that, Luigi, but I sure as hell do know that Wee Willie Rennie’s failure to condemn the OO knuckle-dragger’s assault upon YES supporters and the burning of our national Saltire in Glasgow after the referendum result, while now making such a big deal of this fairly insignificant non-event, marks the insignificant, wee, nyaffing, troublemaking numptie that is Willie Rennie even smaller than ever before.

      Not to mention that BBC Scotland’s running so hard with the event while ignoring the OO’s vile actions diminishes them to insignificance too. If, “The Independent”, goes on as it has started out I can see the BBC, and such as the Daily Record’s, decline in Scotland accelerating greatly.

      “It’s commin yet fir aa that”.

    192. Chic McGregor says:

      @farrochie
      “*NOTE: Devo max, home rule and the vow are all terms used by civic
      organisations and the public and are not terms used by the Commission”

      Note 1 ‘The vow’, at least, was used in an official Westminster briefing paper reproduced by a reader here. And was attributed to the three unionist party leaders in a contextually clear fashion. ‘Civic organisations’?

      Note 2 ‘Federalism’, as used by former Prime Minister Brown, is not on that list.

    193. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I note the spin against us has continued and intensified in the media and the BBC since the narrow squeak of the referendum.
      This is going to be continuous and we should be very aware of this. They got a terrible fright

      It is being done against a backdrop of the independence side’s information effort lessening since the vote. This was always going to be difficult to maintain in the longer term being the result of thousands of activist volunteers and huge volunteer enthusiasm. Our opponents with massive resources, particularly on media control, have no such limitations.

      NHS is one area on the receiving end of negative spin. Oil industry another. There will be many more. In the New Year we need a new geared up campaign

    194. Chic McGregor says:

      @Chalks

      The other plausible theory I’ve seen, is that it is actually at the behest of ‘The West’ to hit the Russians.

      It is certainly, more proportionally, a much bigger hit on them than it is on the USA.

      Agree, if it curtails fracking projects then that is good news for Scotland.

      Also, if it keeps more Scottish oil in the ground, then that is also, ultimately, good news for a future independent Scotland.

    195. Helena Brown says:

      Roll_On_2014: regarding your comment about oil and prices. Reading an article on Pressreader this morning, reducing oil prices is supposed to stimulate growth and defeat the both Russians and all these nasty Nationalist. I know this to be true as I heard it also on the propaganda machine that is the BBC who managed to get round to us. Apparently the UK government are supposed to only benefit to the tune of 5%, aye right. I said to Husband when he arrived that it is amazing how when you know it is exactly propaganda how you ignore it. They also said how well Japan and South Korea had managed their economy without natural resources, that will be the Japanese economy which has been stuck in the doldrums for 20-30years. I know I am getting old but I do not have Alzheimers.

    196. Macca73 says:

      @Dan Huil

      That was the first one I thought of but I also like the idea of slashing airport landing taxes by way of increasing jobs for people due to airlines finding it an attractive place to fly into if we did so. Who needs Westminster to create jobs. Even if you don’t give us the power to do so then we’ll sort it for ourselves!!

    197. fred blogger says:

      Chic
      a speculation, yes.
      but oil prices maybe down, but is more oil being pumped, sold and stored, what with lower extraction costs to/will keep BoE prices down?

    198. Fred says:

      As I was frying ham when the Paisley bonfire was being aired on the wireless I missed much of the furore and assumed from the outrage that the Buddies had burned Lord Smith.
      As for the Great Northern Walrus’s hand wringing performance over the oil price, if things don’t pick up we’ll be sending the Norwegians the Xmas trees next year!

    199. chalks says:

      @Chic

      Yep, I’m sure they’ve considered the impact on the russians as it squeezes them….that is also to do with China slowing down and not needing as much as forecast…they’ve scrapped the south stream project, which is being heralded by both sides…

      http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-12-02/pipeline-politics-just-got-thornier-in-europe-and-russia

      but America is america, if the President can prove that they don’t need ‘foreign’ oil then that is a big winner with southern states and obviously for the entire country as they rely heavily on their roads network

    200. Stoker says:

      Chic McGregor says:
      3 December, 2014 at 11:14 am
      “Urging the First Minister to break the law by curbing an act of political expression, which is a human right guaranteed by the ECHR, is irresponsible and quite possibly an illegal act itself.
      People must be allowed to make political protest and make their opinions known by any legal means they see fit.”

      Well said, Chic.

      I cannot stress enough the importance of those words.

      The Unionist propaganda machine has no right to be dictating what we can or cannot do in a law abiding peaceful manner.

      Instead of pandering to the Unionist’ and issuing statements condemning what was a lawful and peaceful freedom of expression, the SNP should be standing up for us all and replying with a list of demands of their own – many of which have already been stated on this site.

      This has got nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to do with having to remain whiter than white. This is a blatant attempt at curbing our democratic right to freedom of expression and our SNP devolved government should be standing up for us and telling these ("Tractor" - Ed)s where to get off.

      These b@st@rds already control all of the media and they are now employing turd rate ("Tractor" - Ed)s to jump all over our rights.

      Yes, their actions could be classed as silly and amateurish but to state they are highly offensive etc is going WAY OTT and is out of order.

      Here’s another one to add to the list of TRULY offensive actions:
      Slabber scum attending a £200 per head dinner held in the very same city where almost half that cities children live in poverty.

      Now that is what you call insensitive, obnoxious and highly offensive.

      As i said, well said Chic.



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