What the people want
On today’s Good Morning Scotland, a Tory MSP (in this case seven-time voter reject Murdo Fraser) was allowed to repeatedly get away unchallenged – for about the 100th time on broadcast media in recent days – with telling the flat-out lie that opinion polls show a clear and large majority in opposition to the Scottish Government’s position and proposed timing on a second independence referendum.
(Good Morning Scotland, BBC Radio Scotland, 31 March 2017)
.
We’ve endlessly shown these claims to be absolutely and categorically false, yet for some reason that we’re unable to explain, no interviewer has ever stopped Fraser, or Adam Tomkins, or Ruth Davidson, or Jackson Carlaw, and pointed that fact out.
Today, a tiny bar buried on a left-hand page in the Herald delivers yet more proof of public support for the Scottish Government’s stance.
It deserves rather more prominence, and while we’re about it we figured we might as well collect some of the evidence together.
We’ll start with the Herald’s piece, which reports a new Survation survey conducted after Theresa May said “now is not the time” for a second indyref.
Excluding don’t knows, the preference for Holyrood over Westminster was 61 to 39.
Yesterday we learned that a NatCen poll in February and March found a narrow but clear majority of Scots believe that Scotland shouldn’t have to leave the EU just because the UK does:
And we already knew that in March, a Panelbase poll for the Sunday Times showed a 50/50 split on whether a referendum should be held before the UK left the EU.
That poll backed up the findings of one in January:
The wording of the polls is absolutely unambiguous. The LATEST timeframe that they allow for is early 2019, which is prior to the scheduled date of Brexit (effectively April 2019). But in fact the end of negotiations will be in late autumn 2018.
(The only movement between the two polls was a significant 5% swing towards people wanting the second indyref to be held sooner rather than later.)
The evidence, then, is clear and overwhelming:
– half of Scots explicitly want a second referendum to be held BEFORE THE UK LEAVES THE EU. There is NO majority against it.
– around 60% of Scots think the decision and the timing should both be matters for the Scottish Parliament to decide, not Westminster, and that Westminster should not be able to block that decision.
– a majority of Scots want Scotland to be able to take a separate path to the rest of the UK with regard to Brexit.
These are the facts. Tories (and the other Unionist parties) should not be allowed to lie about them on air unchallenged any more. We’re watching.
On 3rd April, OFCOM takes over as the first independent regulator of the BBC. They have already said that they want the BBC to reflect the Regions and Nations better with an equal per capita spend on production. It wants “all parts of the UK to be reflected, and invested in, by the BBC”.
This was an article in yesterday’s The National but sadly not on their website so I can’t link.
As well as watching, we need to be ready to report instances of bias and misrepresentation. Also, in a binary referendum such as Indyref2, there should be equal representation of both arguments and no more 3 or 4 against 1 (or even 0) panels.
They lie, and they’ll keep on lying, it’s all they have; along with a compliant media.
the bare faced-liars are bare-faced lying – quelle surprise. so sick of it & it’s only week 2
jimnarlene – snap
I’m not going to hold my breath for honesty from the broadcast media. Not one that is willing to go with the story that any delay in the new Forth Bridge is due to the SNP not correctly predicting the weather.
After watching the forelock tugging Neil with May and the roasting Mike Russell received afterwards I think tells you what their orders are.
The BBC sees its role as being to support the Union, not as a public service broadcaster. So Unionists get off with ‘murder’.
Capella says:
I hope OFCOM makes a difference.
One of the many things which pissed me off in 2014 was the way politcal programmes from Scotland might have been 1:1, output originating in London but beamed into Scotland continued the 3:1 bias. News, QT, paper reviews, all sorts of stuff, would discuss Scottish isssues with a blatantly Unionist heavy panel.
ScotRef, we should take injunctions if necessary to stop the likes of QT, Marr, etc with their Unionist bias during the Purdah period.
Must not be allowed to go on doing this? How can any of us actually stop them?
2 chances that the media will ever be accurate or honest on this issue.
Fat chance and Nae chance.
Face it folks Scot Indy is up against the entire UK media corps as well as the UK political establishment.
Way past time to get that fact out to the mainstream voters.
Although the article with OFCOM quotes is not online, a previous article on Fiona Hyslop’s discussions with BBC and OFCOM in September last year is available.
The Cabinet minister is to hold talks with senior figures from the BBC and Ofcom, including the director general, Lord Hall and Sharon White, Ofcom chief executive to pursue the government’s asks about licence fee share.
link to archive.is
OFCOM also did a 2016 Report on Public Service Broadcasting which has a lot of stats, for those who like stats (pdf):
link to ofcom.org.uk
It is quite plain now that there has been an orchestrated attack on the legitimacy of Holyrood.
It was puzzling at the time why May arrived, met Nicola in a hotel and left having said nothing.
She refused to meet in a Scottish gov office, last time when they met in Bute House, the offices of state were apparent.
Ruth dissing the FM telling her to sit down (& basically to shut up).
Annie whatsit saying she wont accept the sovereignty of Holyrood.
We have a group of MSPs trying to undermine it’s authority.
The Great Repeal Bill and the attempt by the opposition parties to discredit the idea of a new independence referendum.
It is an attempt to destroy the validity of Holyrood and the office of FM.
This is an all out attack on devolution.
Scotland is fighting for it’s very existence.
That’s your fourth estate at their very best right there.
Bless!
I think the Rev posted a tweet a week or two back which sums up our media perfectly along the lines of deliberate ignorance or stupidity.
They choose not to see. They choose not to ask. They choose not to tell.
They choose.
While I agree no-one at the BBC will ever properly challenge Unionist interviewees in the accuracies of their figures on such things , there is usually a SNP minister on to respond .Derek McKay could have corrected this as he was on straight after Murdo Fraser but he didn’t ,so Fraser’s answer is taken as correct by all who are listening .
@Morag 10:35 am :
“Must not be allowed to go on doing this? How can any of us actually stop them?”
We can’t is the honest truth of the matter. Yes we could get injunctions as suggested above but I have no confidence they’d take any notice.
The EU is clearly playing for keeps and England can’t service their debt if they lose Scotland and the City of London’s moneylaunderers.
I don’t see the unionists agreeing to any referendum or respecting any referendum result. They simply can’t afford to.
As to where that ultimately takes us, well I try not to think about that too much…
We will test OFCOM’s mettle on holding the BBC to account. However, there is a battle for the survival of the UK and it would be folly to think that organisations like the BBC do not have their orders to serve the state. For the BBC and others there is no such thing as truth, only information and the information is crafted to serve a purpose.
Whilst reading these posts I noticed a small red warning on the top right of the page, (chrome) so i hovered over it and clicked,
‘This page is trying to load scripts from unauthenticated sources’
Never ever noticed it before on wings and it does not appear on any other web pages that I visit so it makes me wonder what is going on?
I think the SNP are entitled to be a wee bit more abrasive with these people when confronted with utter garbage.
A more combative approach may be needed for the next 2 years.
“Never ever noticed it before on wings and it does not appear on any other web pages that I visit so it makes me wonder what is going on?”
It’s probably a side-effect of us moving to secure HTTPS protocols.
No lasting deal with the EU can be arrived at until Scotland’s constitutional future re UK membership is clear.
Scottish assets cannot be used as part of a UK deal with the EU if they are likely to be removed in the event of Scottish independence.
Both May and the EU negotiators should be insisting on an indyref2 to clear the waters.
[…] Wings Over Scotland What the people want On today’s Good Morning Scotland, a Tory MSP (in this case seven-time voter reject […]
The Survation poll looks pretty much how the country splits, 35% probably hard core unionist that would vote for WM even if they had to sacrifice their first born. This leaves 65% who could be persuaded to vote Yes. It’s a tall order as that requires persuading 77% of the 65% to support independence and ensure they turn out. Lets hope we can make it.
‘Must not be allowed to go on doing this? How can any of us actually stop them?’
We can’t, and they wont stop trying to wear us down until we stop breathing.
The only thing we can do is never give up, and always believe the dream will never die, and maybe some day, if the Gods are on our side, we will no longer have to dream.
@Rev. Stuart Campbell 10:54 am :
“It’s probably a side-effect of us moving to secure HTTPS protocols.”
It is usually caused by old hard-coded/archived/called by a script http links still being present in the site code. They need changing to https is all.
The other common cause is your webhost is running an older version of cpanel which doesn’t fully support letsencrypt.
NB – I’m no webmonkey so that’s as far as my knowledge goes. My opinion on the standard of most websites code is unprintable anyway 😉
Chic McGregor
It has just been announced that Spain have is to have a major say on the outcome of Gibraltar.
I bet Treeza will use the Scottish Fishing Grounds as a bargaining chip.
She’ll tell Spain to take as much fish as they want as long as they keep their hands off Gibraltar.
Same tripe on the 11am news on RS, Murdo Fraser telling us all no-one wants a referendum in Scotland. So what is there to do, as there is no point complaining to the Unionist Broadcasting Corporation?
It shouldn’t matter what any poll says or doesn’t say though
If the Scottish Parliament as the collective will of the people as demonstrated in democratic elections decide a thing than that is the irrefutable decision of the Scottish people and the First Minister of the country is not only the voice of the country but the embodiement of that decision
Scotland didn’t elect the SNP on the basis of an opinion poll
the people did in a free and fair democracy
So the “Malignancy” of “journalists” the BBC and moaning faced losing opposition parties who collecectively couldn’t match the votes of the SNP are an irrelevance
If your looking for honesty, do not look to westminster, there has never been any honesty there , and do not expect any of the leaders of the branch offices of the tory, labour, or liberal parties in scotland to give you any honesty, they are 3 of the most spineless MSPs i have ever come across
The SNP has most of the MSP, and these 3 spineless wonders can only join forces to try and defeat anything the SNP does, good or bad, it makes no difference to these people, because the strings are pulled from westminster, everyone is now wise to this now, i new this 40 years ago, that is why i have never voted for any party wanting to sit in power at westminster
@caz
”
Chic McGregor
It has just been announced that Spain have is to have a major say on the outcome of Gibraltar.
I bet Treeza will use the Scottish Fishing Grounds as a bargaining chip.
She’ll tell Spain to take as much fish as they want as long as they keep their hands off Gibraltar.
”
And how is she going to guarantee that if Scotland votes for independence? Military occupation?
The Beeb have 4th rate reporters so that’s why they interview 4th rate politicians.
The media are a disgrace but nothing will change and it’s time the Scottish Government backed a grass roots media channel and ploughed money into it. For the next 2 years we are going to have full on bulls hit with the SG given lip service in reply.
They really have to stop giving the msm interviews and just give the response we are getting on with the day job. The Greens have more Msps but that Tool Rennie is given more air time !!
Chick McGregor says:
Precisely. Even things like the exit payment. It should be less for iEngland&Wales if Scotland and NI stay in the EU.
Things like oil, gas, fishing cannot be in WM’s gift to negotiate with.
I am certain the EU will be well aware of this. 🙂
@Neil Cook
They should do a live daily lunchtime broadcast on Holyrood TV called ‘Ask the Government’ with phone-in and texted questions from members of the public.
For balance, there should be an ‘Ask the Opposition’ program as well.
Lunchtime so a rota system of spokespersons cannot be accused of neglecting their parliamentary work. Also maximising potential live audience.
Program, recorded for later streaming as and when.
New standards set in government transparency.
Murdo The Queen’s Eleven Fraser argues that ‘The Scottish People’ are more concerned about our Government not repealing the OBF legislation than a piddling little matter like being dragged out of the EU against our will by a Fascist Nasty Wee Cabal Down There? This man is fucking everywhere on the BBC. Is it a Masonic thing?
We will all sleep soundly in our beds when knuckle headed bigots and psychopaths can take to the terraces and spill out onto our streets declaring that they are up to their knees in Fenian Blood, and extol the virtues of murderous nuts who would blow up innocent citizens for a cause, and won’t get prosecuted for it. Fraser and Kelly. Two sides of the same evil bigoted little antisocial cult.
The female interviewer was clearly out of her depth, and of course constrained by the fact that this Was a Yoon Propaganda piece, so Fraser was allowed to trot out the current load of fascist pish and lies that is now front and centre in the Nude Erection anti Scottish campaign oozing with unchallenged lies and arrogant idiocy.
To the employees of BBC who still have a fibre of moral conscience. How do you put up with it?
The polls clearly state that the Scottish People are awakening, and it’s only Day 3 of Empire 2.
BBC has lost it completely now.
It was clear to me from the outset, when I heard Brian Taylor reply to a question that was put to him about Holyrood passing a vote for section 30 and Westminster saying they will not allow it.
It was something like, ‘where do we go from here’, and Brian’s answer was, along the lines, ‘both sides will try to put their case forward to the public and try to win them over’.
Which to me, roughly translated to, ‘the UK media will push the Westminster position and try and put down the appetite for another vote’.
They hope we will sit down, but I believe we will stand up, and stay up.
Just received an E-mail from the Government at Westminster advising me that the Petition for another Independence Referendum will not go forward because: Now is not the time for another Referendum, apparently, the people of Scotland have no appetite for this at this time! We should be concentrating on getting the best trade deal for the whole of the UK! Really?
Also why don’t the BBC call them out on this whole ‘polls’ line anyway?
(a) They are notoriousy wrong e.g. polls predicted we would stay in EU and there would be a hung Westminster Parliament in 2015!
(b) No-one touted this narrative before Indyref1 & Brexit that we need half the people to WANT a referendum, as shown in polls, before the people get a referendum.
(C) Govt is not done via private, easily manipulated polls with leading questions, shy voters etc. etc.
(d) two major polls after Indyref1 was GE 56/59 MPs SNP and 62% remain!
But BBC Shortbread agrees with Murdo “Lucky 7” Fraser.
On this topic I had a letter published in the national a few days ago. Like you Stu I cannot figure out why the interviewers do not have a go at the liars. So unprofessional. No wonder many of us think they are told not to.
Very interesting piece from Simon Pia in today’s National. There is an unstoppable momentum gathering.
It is highly significant that they can’t risk Rude Davidson on a Scottish QT
It is also highly significant that elements in the unionist side actually seem to believe their own spin and are blinded by it.
‘The majority of Scots do not want another independence referendum …’ This mantra is nothing more than a Yoon tactical strategy. They are shit scared that they will not win a second referendum, so prevention is their desperate hope, thus their repeated attempts to spawn this myth with the eager help of the ever-compliant yoon media outlets.
All the lass interviewing had to say was:-‘That’s not true, Mr Fraser.’
Would she be allowed to call him out by the BBC Propaganda machine?
I note The Queen’s Eleven quoted a John Curtice poll to back up his lies.
That would be the polling organisation which receives 65% of its revenue stream from the Tory Government?
The Project Fear lies are an extension of the 2014 debacle. Chuck any old lie at them, in the safe knowledge that Brewer, Campbell, Fraser, or Bird will not challenge the lies, and worse still, the BBC establishment will turn on ‘the SNP’ and demand that the Independence Movement prove that they are lying.
Fake news before Trump surfaced.
BBC, do your fucking job, not your Masters’ bidding.
If Scotland’s MPs were to vote on another referendum, the majority in favour would be huge. So those arguing for the power to lie with Westminster are actually saying that England should decide.
@galamcennalath
“I am certain the EU will be well aware of this. ?”
So am I. 🙂
There seems to be genuine surprise in the media that the EU haven’t done a U turn!
The draft negotiating document collects together and formalising everything which has been coming out in bits and pieces for months. Firmed up on detail, yes, but nothing totally new or unexpected.
There really are NO surprises, so why the surprise?
They didn’t actually believe the improbable guff the Tories have been coming out with, did they?
Yes, many do believe the project Fear guff and also the glories of Brexit. I have a friend in Yorkshire who did until she was corrected yesterday.
So the unionists believe it is the Westminster parliament in this so called union of nations that should decide whether or not the Scottish Government has the right to hold a second independence referendum.
Well why didn’t they apply the same principle when Westminster decided to hold a referendum about leaving the EU and not go and ask permission from Brussels to hold the referendum?
Imperialists do not give up willingly the countries they Govern, just look at Russia under Putin with the Ukraine and Crimea.
caz-m says:
She’ll tell Spain to take as much fish as they want as long as they keep their hands off Gibraltar
fishing isnt the big deal for spain that people make out
but the issue of gibralta really really floats their boat
Why don’t we start scaremongering right back at the journalists and editors at the BBC..?
Stuff like..Who’s gonna pay your generous pensions if an independent Scotland MAKES YOU ALL REDUNDANT.. Offering new contracts, take or leave, with reduced benefits (like other public sector workers)
Your mortgages, savings, holidays, overtime ARE ALL AT RISK..IF YOU KEEP LYING TO US LIKE THIS.
Watch your backs, BBC hacks, or its the gutter for the lot of you..
Our own John Nicolson MP is on the Culture, Media and Sport Committee,
this committee can bring all aspects of media from BBC, newspapers,TV to give an account for their actions,
having watched some of the sessions they can be quite forceful in getting answers to their enquiries,
Mr Nicolson is very good on the committee and knows his stuff but maybe next time BBC are on he could be a bit more aggressive and committed in pointing out their bias and failing to scrutinise Unionist lies,
this is not a time to be backward in using all the levers we have to put pressure on the bias of BBC news.
Capella says:
31 March, 2017 at 10:22 am
On 3rd April, OFCOM takes over as the first independent regulator of the BBC….
I wouldn’t get your hopes up. UK Regulators are a placebo.
The law is there to protect consumers, but most of us can’t afford it. Mention justice, and speaking to a lawyer and your regulator/ombudsman will run for the hills.
Regulators and quangos are a Tory NeoLiberal phenomenon, and very often staffed with people who won’t say or do anything to rattle the system or threaten the establishment.
I once pursued a claim through the Financial Services Ombudsman who revealed themselves as liars and manipulators without a shred of conscience when telling black was white, despite written evidence being an explicit contradiction. For two years they steadfastly refused to release evidence which proved my complaint was legitimate. Nothing but fking rogues who will lie through their teeth to cover each other’s backs.
I’d no more trust a UK Regulator than I would trust a Tory.
The contrast in tone on GMS between the interview of Queen’s Eleven Fraser by Hayley Millar, and that of Derek Mackay by Gary Robertson, was striking – and it’s not the first time they’ve juxtaposed Robertson and Millar dependent upon interviewee. Johann ‘unshertinty’ Lamont was the first beneficiary of Hayley Millar’s non-probing questioning in that context.
The BBC should tell us exactly when Governments started to function based on skewed opinion polls and not by dint of parliamentary sovereignty – just so we’re clear, like..
Conservatives, by definition, are terrible at brinksmanship.
Conservatives don’t understand what ‘progressive’ means, having only just got their heads round social-democracy and liberalism.
We are being ruled by very ignorant people.
I dunno WTF fishing is being made out to be a big deal. AIUI the largest ship (by far) in the “Scottish fleet” is in fact Dutch owned and mainly crewed by Filipinos.
I’m also informed (no idea if its currently true) that most of the “Scottish fleet” are in fact foreign-owned ships and have been for decades.
I’m also reminded of Ullapool in the 1970s when the HUGE Russian factory ships were fishing Scottish west coast – the newsagents used to sell TVs & HiFis 🙂
Coming from Lewis I can tell you the decline of fishing there in the 1960s-80s had bugger all to do with the EU & a LOT more to do with the sale of fishing licences to foreign ships/owners.
So from what I can see “Scotland” hasn’t had much of an indigenous fishing industry since the 1960s & I don’t see that changing even if ScotGov had exclusive control. Its pretty much a non-issue to everyone apart from maybe 10k of (mainly) unionist/UKIP voters.
YMMV of course.
I read The Scotsman regularly until Andrew Neill damaged it beyond redemption and I clung to The Herald for far longer than I should have. I don’t now think that if either, or both, of these titles were to crash and burn we would be any worse off.
I now look to Wings, The National and other links to see what is going on but I despair for radio and particularly BBC Scotland. They demonstrated the breadth of their talent during the week by sending the entire first eleven to Westminster to no effect whatsoever.
Complaint about the standard and direction of the BBC is utterly futile. Either you record an anonymous comment or you can speak to an earnest but totally uninformed individual based in Northern Ireland. The only guarantee is that you will hear no more as the State Broadcaster ploughs on relentlessly. Murdo Fraser is apparently a fixture at Holyrood but does anyone vote for him?
Switch on the TV and what do you get but Andrew Neil!
My Sheffield cousin contacted me just a wee while ago mostly about how rubbish ‘Sheff Wed’ and ‘Hearts’ had been the last wee while, a shared interest! 🙂
He is in awe of Nick Clegg ‘Sheffield MP’ 🙂
Waffled around the Brexit which he’s agin and then he suddenly spouts I hope you get your independence Dave… Blimey!
How things have changed, in 2013 he thought I was off my trolley!
PS:
Archived this snippet from a WoS twitter post. A good read.
link to archive.is
Talking of Rude Davidson, did I mis-hear or did she say “this bloody panel” at the tail end during the NHS question?
I thought that was what I heard but I couldn’t quite believe it.
You have to wonder who they are trying to influence with these lies?
They tell lies and the majority of people don’t believe them as it goes against their view. They won’t influence these people.
They tell lies to solidify their Yoon vote, try appear angry and hopefully not lose any of their current vote – maybe damage limitation?
Nah, I really can’t fathom it. Are they really that thick?
Sorry, too many questions, 0 answers!
J
Dave McEwan Hill says:
31 March, 2017 at 11:37 am
It is also highly significant that elements in the unionist side actually seem to believe their own spin and are blinded by it.
And that, ultimately, will be their undoing. They cannot say they were not warned. The signs have been all too apparent since 2007, but they chose to ignore them. Classic heads in the sand nonsense. 🙂
@ galamcennalath
“There seems to be genuine surprise in the media that the EU haven’t done a U turn!”
When you think about it, the meeja haven’t had a good time of it recently. For the better part of ten months supposedly serious titles and commentators have been filling screeds of column space with pro Brexit material. The righteousness of the UK negotiating ‘ideal’ of ‘cake and eat it’. The same folk who waxed lyrical on Nicola Sturgeon’s ‘bluff’.
In the space of three weeks and three somewhat significant statements and three official letters, all of that effort and all of that editorial has turned to ash.
I’m not sure there are enough eggs to go round so many faces.
louis.b.argyll says:
Indeed! In their right wing world, ignorance is not an impediment.
In the centre, democracy is all about knowledge, information, facts, and an informed electorate and able politicians making reasoned decisions.
When you move towards the authoritarian margins, everything gets reversed. Dogma, compliance, control, and manipulation take over. Ignorant people rule the roost.
louis.b.argyll says:
Yes, I have been thinking that for a long while.We need to be getting facts out for sure and make our positive case. However, we need to make sure we make people believe the very real negatives of the Union itself, of the Tories and Westminster.
The articles are every where, maybe a website decrying the lies of the present, and the past. The impossible for Westminster for recovery from UK incurred debt. Uk pensioners beware.
Other things like, Babcocks having their insurances for a nuclear accident reduced to a paltry £100k per incident, which would cost Scotland many millions. Or that in the fifties Westminster planned to explode a nuclear devise on the West Coast of Scotland, only stopped but in-climate weather which would have effected the test.
These things are real, and much more like them. We would not run out of stories to show what Westminster really is.
I’d like people to read this and remember who we are trying to reach out to and why.
link to gcat.org.uk
It is well worth reading and understanding.
The Guardian:
Brexit.
link to archive.is
Just look at last nights QT panel! Complete joke and non disguised biased. Independence wasn’t mentioned for once but where was the SNP representation? UKIP again on it with no MPs. Harrison being on it alone was completely unfair as the formal start of Indy 2 is underway. How on earth are we supposed to stop this? We can’t.
Murdo Fraser and Tomkins could not convince me of anything. One look at the pair of them and others and I just think ‘ creep ‘ bets most folk think the same. SNP have the most believable people, so I hope the BBC keep showing these creeps until the country is sick of the sight of them
Re;John@10.48am
John, Derek McKay would most likely not have heard the interview with Murdo Fraser lying outright to the people of Scotland, prior to his own appearance on the show. He would have been waiting, in a green room or whatever they call it.
What can we do about it I say what cannot we do about it ? We can do a bloody site more than we have been doing so far these people are laughing at you treating you with contempt and have been doing so for yearsj and yous have been hitting back by bogging each other to complain about it,they are never going to allow you to become independent as long as you play by their rules so the answer is simple stop playing by their rules imean A.S. Said we are going towards independence and sofar no one even had a bloody nose aye and so far no ones had independce
On last night’s QT there was an attempt by a ranting ill-mannered Barrage Balloon lookalike to take over the show – what an obnoxious person.
What a contrast was Lisa Nandy (I have never and never will support Labour) who, apart form being pleasing on the eye, debated professionally and politely unlike that other creature who is getting just a wee bit carried away with herself with all the praise she gets from her media fan club.
With most politicians whether or not one supports them and their party it is easy to tell whether or not they are nice persons away from the political frontline – need I say any more.
Irony alert! link to archive.is
After repeated unfounded accusations that Spain will Veto Scotland’s membership of the EU it turns out that Spain have secured a Veto on the Brexit deal unless the UK wants to hand over Gibraltar.
It would appear its now a race to see who gets out of the UK first. Scotland and Gibraltar look to be joint favorites with Northern Ireland close behind. Wales needs to get in the race.
Sorry if this has already been linked to, haven’t read the posts yet.
The good old BBC, this time (Mis)Reporting Scotland have been found GUILTY of LYING to its viewers over GERS.
The corporation’s Editorial Complaints Unit [ECU] has upheld a complaint relating to an item that aired on August 24th 2016.
I wonder if something similar would work with GMS. 😉
link to indyref2.scot
Much chatter about the Great Repeal Bill.
Surely this can’t be considered until after Brexit?
We cannot repeal EU law while we are still in the EU, can we?
On the SG timetable, Scotland will have decided her future prior to Brexit and the whole exercise will be irrevant.
Or, is there something I’m missing something?
link to independent.co.uk
“Stay with us Scotland, we love you….honest, you are not just our fiscally stabilising cash cow…”
In 1987 a woman phoned the BBC worried there maybe a hurricane on it’s way,don’t worry she was told, there’s not,although it might get a bit windy over Europe.
In 1706,the Duke of Argyll,when presented with 96 petitions against the union replied “these are little more than paper kites”
Tories,’now is not the time’ to be flying your,cheap paper kites over Scotland (even if it provides temporary relief) it does not help long term,with your anger management issues or with your Brexit anal pains.
We know the high pressure coming in from Europe has caused some depression down south,but come to Scotland and view the natural beauty of the Aurora Borealis,discover the personality, the intelligence of the people who live here (might just take your mind off your Duke of Argyll’s) you might learn that they’re really not that into artificial,paper kite shows and this is just a pigment of your imagination.
P.S. Update Scotland’s Ordnance Survey Maps (you have been given,all the data) we wouldn’t want any of our visitors getting lost or any of the locals rambling onto Tory ‘private’ land,would we.
When I hear the likes of Fraser, Tomkins and Davidson I am reminded of the sectarian unionist parties in the North of Ireland. However, instead of Democratic Unionists we have Undemocratic Unionists.
EU guidelines: Spain veto over any future EU-UK deal on Gibraltar
I noticed the eu guidelines made no mention of scotland. i believe there is a lot of goodwill in the eu towards scotland but the eu is taking a pragmatic and the most diplomatic approach it can to our plight
i say this not to diss the eu but only to point out to others who believe the eu will “ride to our rescue”……. they wont
this is our fight and ours alone.
For ten years Scotland has elected the SNP to represent them and manage the country and in that time Labour Tory and other previous voters have come to support them as a government hence the voting numbers, if they were rotten at it we wouldn’t elect them
“They’re not perfect! I hear that a lot, but then compared to who? and if you do compare them “to who” they are well in advance of the nearest “who” anybody can come up with unless you count God and actually he/she has proved pretty useless so far
The opposition has nothing to offer except lies to feed to the remaining computerless tabletless zombie population of back page “who scored against who” brigade and the racist Ukippers who all fall for the easy hate option every time
More attention will be given over to Norn Ireland in the coming weeks and months than Scotland has ever gotten in years and for one reason and one reason only
The UK government who never ever negotiates with terrorists but always does is feart because the Irish have form for blowing things up and it’s the English they’ll do it to
Whereas Scotland does things differently and nicely so they call us names, lie to us, belittle us, downright ignore us then dimiss us with utter contempt
So the pen is indeed not mightier than the sword according to the English Government
(not advocating btw) But that’s the mentality of who we’re dealing with so perhaps a new slightly more belligerent style of approach to co-operation or non co-operation with our Lords and Masters might be in order from the Scottish Government
There are many ways to make the English Government visibly uncomfortable and the media will love to highlight that
It’s an opportunty for them to invent more news and distort reality to the silly degree but gets Scotland constantly on the telly and Westminster will hate that type of exposure
Who knows they might end up begging us to go and take our worthless billions of barrels of oil with us
watched Ruths display on QT last night she is a nasty piece with a tendency to fly of the handle and into a rant. Would love to see her on the Tory bench’s at Westminster, but it wont happen, the Tories know she is to big a liability, to get anywhere near The Big Hoose.
HandandShrimp
Angry Ruth Davidson, who showed the UK audience of QT her true nature last night, really did say “this bloody audience” (near the end…..at about 55 mins) I thought at first that I must have been mistaken especially as no-one on “the bloody panel” acknowledged the insult! I guess DD and the other panel guests are as frightened of her as Ken Macintosh appears to be!
Reading through lots of stuff re Brexit and the future for the UK economy seems dire.
A third world England is looming, currency crashes, high debt, manufacturing does not offer any relief. A total government breakdown is not impossible.
If we remain in the UK, their talk of past glories will not feed the population who will also be working for peanuts. ENHS will fail miserably, pensions will be cut, and they will raid bank accounts, trading accounts and many other things.
However, these things can only go on for a while until we are drained of everything.
Scotland, has the opportunity of a lifetime to escape, and if we do not, even the hardest Unionist supporters will curse what Westminster has done to their lives and they will know they have been battling for the wrong side. Social elements payments will be destroyed. Nothing we see now will be the same.
Unless of course we do the right thing and vote to leave ASAP, before armageddon calls. Despite all the shenanigans of Westminster politicians and of some of our own, nothing will help them. The UK is heading for anarchy and all it means.
There is no good picture for the future of the UK, it’s future is being set.
Scotland can save itself no other outcome is as valid as that. We really cannot fail, no matter what comes at us,we have to win this, we need a future and we could have a good one.
We need to make a stand on what we believe for our future generations, they will never understand if we do not.
P&J … ” Former UKIP man switches to Conservatives to fight Moray Council election. … The civil servant at RAF Lossiemouth contested the Moray seat for UKIP in the 2010 General Election and the Scottish Election the following year “
They’re all pretty much interchangeable these days, UKIP Max, UKIP Classic, UKIP Cherry, UKIP Lite.
Brexit, anti Indy, anti immigration …. aversion to Scottish democracy…. all Unionists tarred with the same brush.
Sorry for O/T here but some folks may find this article from the New Yorker magazine rather interesting. 😉
May’s speech was filled with so many false claims, so much cant, and so many examples of wishful thinking that it is hard to know where to begin. Her vow to represent “every person” in the U.K. is blatantly false.
link to linkis.com
Again with lies about ‘what the people want’.
This is a UK msm wide issue…it’s deliberate no doots. The constant narrative of ‘demands’, the constant lie that there is no evidence supporting referendum ‘before’ Brexit.
Guardian’s reporting of FM’s letter tae May:
‘Knowing that repeated opinion polls show only about 35% of voters agree with her plea for a referendum before Brexit and about 45% support independence, she argued there was a clear moral case for the referendum powers to be handed to Holyrood’
No cif on this article.
link to archive.is
@ galamcennalath – I wondered if the RAF connection in Moray influenced the referendum vote. How many postal and proxy votes does Moray have? The Tories use the closeness of the vote in Moray to taunt Angus Robertson. Shamelessly adopting a UKIP candidate is pretty low.
I see the MOD has promised to spend millions on the Lossiemouth base. Pork barrel politics of course. Hope SNP and Green activists in Moray scrutinise the vote and electoral register.
galamcennalath says:
“They are all tarred with the same brush”
that is very true, but wait until brexit really bites, when their own wee world is falling apart and it is hitting them in the pocket. I suspect many of them will change sides, if only to protect themselves and their own standard of living.
“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”
I’ve been aware of this quote for a long time without knowing the source; half assuming it was Niccolo Machiavelli. Just checked – Joseph Goebbels
Oops!
It doth appear that the West Midlands police are the 13th police force to send a file to the C.P.S. concerning alleged Tory election fraud.
Ho Hum! 😀
Great Repeal Bill will include powers for UKGov to alter devolution settlements. May’s “now is not the time” for #ScotRef becomes clearer.
maybe why nicola wants indyref2 before the uk brexits….
we need scotlands future 2 and wbb2 soon, to help us to convince yes2nos to vote yes again.
we are on a knife edge now,
Si tu peux voir détruit l’ouvrage de ta vie
Et sans dire un seul mot te remettre à rebâtir,
Ou perdre d’un seul coup le gain de cent parties
Sans un geste et sans un soupir ;
Folks
I rarely post to say you should be doing this etc., as I presume we are all doing our wee bits.
BUT
Can you give some thought to the media, and those of us on Twitter give focus to media outlets, and leave memes, facts on threads to counter the BS?
I say this because there are still far too many Indy supporters spending MEGA time sparring, debating with random unionists, who could very likely be paid to just keep you occupied. It’s completely wasted time. Someone yesterday, saying he spent 2 hours debating the NP issue with someone who was just laughing.
Each to their own, but please consider how much more effective it is to leave a great factual, sourced meme, or a link to solid information. This can have a far greater reach.
Off my soapbox now.
Now is not the time for your petition ha ha its like a f/n Ealing comedy , is this the only phrase this bloody robotic woman can manage , best of luck to the EU negotiating people they will need it , faced with this brick wall , she’s not governing a country she is reacting to events by trying to look strong and firm lets see how much longer she can keep all the plates spinning .
So Murdo ‘Bigot’ Fraser gets the proverbial armchair ride on Radio Shortbread’s Good Morning Scumbags programme and we are all surprised. Right enough as posted earlier Mackay should have pulled the twat up about this poll shite.
Calling Holyrood’s powers “devolved” is in itself a lie.
Not in the Sewel Convention sense that they can simply be overruled with no recourse to corrective legislation.
The reason I’d say that the term itself is , deliberately, misleading is that every single power MPs at Westminster has is, as far as Scotland is concerned, an expression of the sovereign will of the people of Scotland. The powers Holyrood has are not, as Westminster would have you believe, derived from a sovereign power based in London. They are powers that we in Scotland were asked which of our representatives we’d like to exercise.
The only way Westminster can unpick that knot is by changing the fundamental principle in Scots’ Law that states that we as a people are sovereign. That’s something that even Westminster can’t change without Holyrood’s permission. It’s also something that might even cause a unionist First Minister might put their foot down on and advise the Queen not to give her Royal Assent to.
Form OECD and CIA data, the UK has an estimated trade deficit for 2016 of about $160 billion.
The UK along with the USA, which is the largest in absolute terms at over twice the UK’s, are the only two countries with trade deficits in the 100s of billions range, but on a pro rata basis the USA is only just over half the UK level.
i.e. the UK has the worst trade deficit in the developed World.
Compare to the Eurozone area which has a trade surplus overall running at about $370 billion.
In terms of % of GDP the top 5 OECD countries are
Switzerland
Ireland
Denmark
Netherlands
Norway
The UK is at the bottom of the list for manufacturing, but worse still, is at the bottom of the list for investment in equipment, the latter being the thing that could change the situation.
They seem intent on not much more than blind faith, that the London Casino financial sector will continue as is post Brexit.
@cat
Never fear. Nicola and her team have been stress testing all permutations since June last year, as well as getting on with the day job.
South of the Border, they have been fighting Gina Miller, fighting each other, throwing insults at the EU, and trying to put out fires in every public service.
The scrappy progress they have made has been facilitated by the supine Labour faux opposition.
The EU is now firmly slapping down all their nonsensical fantasies, so that’s another major fire, Twitter threads are pretty outraged at EU bursting their deluded bubble.
Nicola looks calm, and in control, just like she has rehearsed this, and she has.
What on earth is Andrew Neil doing? ‘MRS’ Sturgeon indeed! What an idiot. Surely she’s been around long enough for him to know her name?
Re polls: I got one from ScotPulse on Wednesday. Q1 – did I agree with Miss Sturgeon’s timetable? You betcha. Then a load o’ yon stuff.
Rule by BBC is totally freakin mental, but its true though, or is it?
Typical of the yoons not to let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Another day and another set of barefaced lies from the Yoons and the Yoon Press and Media. When are the SNP going to take the gloves off with them and put on the tackety boots?
Les Wilson says:
I agree. Many NOs were motivated not by politics, nor Britnattery, but by the fear of losing the cosy existence they believed the Union delivered. If this comes into doubt because of Brexit, and Indy looks like the brightest future for them personally, they will cross over.
We have to be realistic and honest about Indy, but Brexit does look bloody awful!
Angus Robertson in interview with Owen Smith. From Gaurdian site:
link to theguardian.com
Wet’n’ windy day here. Hangin’ about the house. The Everlovin’ and I having a lunch on a tray watching the news.
BBC Reporting Scotland: NS sending letter to May asking ‘permisssion’ to hold a second Referendum.
Brian Taylor in reporting this, morphs into a spokesman for the Tory Government, and tells us all that May will say ‘No’.
It is not his function or role to be political. He is a reporter, a recorder of events, and once facts are known give us his pearls of political wisdom.
What if May will say Yes?
Switched over as I munched through my peppered ham baguette.
John McKay reporting the same momentous event, although
‘permission’ is described as ‘seeking authority’; but yet again, McKay announces to the viewing public that May will say No.
Blanket coverage of the Yoon perspective, unquestioning, unflinching Establishment mouthpieces.
We the public are told that Scotland is back in its box. we’re doomed because England rules Ya Bass.
When are these guys going to grow a pair?
What the people want – reminded me of this.
link to youtube.com
The only way to check the corrupt Westminster propaganda machine that is the BBC is people power. If those who really want independence cannot come out en masse and virtually shut Pacific Quay down for a while then it will continue to do what it likes and show us two fingers.
Its time to stand up and be counted or forget it.
@Jack Collatin
“When are these guys going to grow a pair?”
The answer is never. Watching either of them isn’t good for the mental health and put you off yer food at the same time. The BBC and STV are as bad as each other.
the flogging of a dead horse, they lied there way to victory 2014 and you think it will be any different it this time, there only one thing don’t pay the TV lisence and get the demos outside the citadel of propardanda to bring to worlds attention that the bbc is not a real source of news but a bunch of Tokyo roses, and i don’t think we should spend to much time on there lies but focus on our own arguments to those who are open to change
Note in that video again Owen Jones again states unchallenged the lie about polls showing no desire for referendum. This has to repeatedly challenged over and over again, can a twitterer @ Owen tweet his interview along with this very article to him. Let’s challenge the sources over and over until they amend the lie.
“i.e. the UK has the worst trade deficit in the developed World.”
But after the USA, Russia and China, the highest military spend in the world.
As Crash Gordo never said, its only fackin money, you want a new aircraft carrier? Fack it have two, only £4bn a pop.
Vote SLabour, Fife!
No chance of any change. The British state is on a war footing and all parties will say and do anything to stop Scotland leaving with its oil.
Neil Cook said at 11:14am:
“The Beeb have 4th rate reporters………”
“The Greens have more Msps but that Tool Rennie is given more air time !! “.
Yes it’s plain for all to see from State Television and here are the numbers.
Scottish Parliament:
Scottish Green Party 6 MSPs
Liberal Democrats 5 MSPs
Graeme Doig @ 15:14,
But the difference is that more and more people are noticing now, and just as at the end of the last indyref, the valiant attempts of the servants of the state are becoming counter-productive. The more they strive, the more they are discredited.
Victor Hugo: “…on ne résiste pas à l’invasion des idées”. Or loosely translated: “There’s nothing so unstoppable as an idea whose time has come.”
The tories lie. It’s what they do. A nation’s media would normally hold the tories to account for their lying. Evidence for tory lying is there for all to see. Scotland’s britnat media refuses to see. Scotland’s britnat media is therefore complicit in the tories’ lying.
Got this back today from the petition to hold a second referendum from the Viceroy of Scotland.
Government responded:
The UK Government is clear that now is not the time for a second independence referendum.
The UK needs to work together, putting all our energies into ensuring we get the right deal for the UK and for Scotland in our negotiations with the EU.
In 2014, the people of Scotland decided in a legal, fair and decisive referendum to remain part of the UK. The Edinburgh Agreement of 2012 committed both the UK and Scottish Governments to respecting the outcome of the Scottish referendum. In 2016 the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. The result of both votes must be respected.
As the Prime Minister has made clear, now is not the time for another damaging and divisive referendum. All our focus should be on our negotiations with the European Union, making sure we get the best deal for the whole of the UK as we leave. And, it would be unfair to the people of Scotland to ask them to make a crucial decision without the necessary information about our future relationship with Europe. Scotland’s two governments should be working together, not pulling apart, at this crucial time.
Leaving the European Union presents us with a unique opportunity. It is this generation’s chance to shape a brighter future for our country. A chance to step back and ask ourselves what kind of country we want to be. We want this United Kingdom to emerge from this period of change stronger, fairer, more united and more outward-looking than ever.
Scotland Office
Nice display of Graun frauds in UKOK action today, leap in anywhere. Ecumenical Ruth D’s clearly their great white hope.
link to archive.is
“The Tory brand in Scotland is not as toxic as it once was, at the height of post-Thatcher anger. Its ecumenical leader, Ruth Davidson, has led the party back into second place.”
Except that they get even less votes now and loathed more than ever, outside Pacific Quay, where they’re worshipped as gods, arse licker Andrew Neil style, the great tory gods, euthanising the poorest and most vulnerable, enriching filthy rich thieving City banksters, destroying everything they touch really, from the economy to the vast blood sport waste lands that are the Scottish Highlands.
And now they even stolen our EU passports too.
April is the cruellest month.
This is a Financial Times article about Brexit. The emphasis is that the UK Government has had a shock.
link to msn.com
Somebody should have reminded Ruth Davidson last night after she said that Corbyn was an IRA sympathiser, that her own party held secret talks with the IRA to find a solution to N Ireland. The Tories more than anybody found the only solution was in dialogue.
Graeme Doig says:
You are absolutely right, been like that a long time but not only because of oil, there are their large number of revenue streams from er, everything we have. They like to shoot our wee animals and birds too!
Liz;
I agree. When a circus act like Babe Ruth feels emboldened to tell our FM to sit down, there may be moves afoot. And Thatcher-May’s state visit to Scotland where she summoned NS to a venue of her choosing – I wish NS had declined.
It’s not impossible to imagine little england deciding devolution in Scotland doesn’t work, and announcing its closure before brexit is complete. That way, the EU can’t intervene, as it would be seen as internal politics.
Independence is now a certainty, no matter when the ref is. The brexit situation is only going to get worse, with jobs and trade lost weekly. They’ll trade away our agriculture and fishing to get some finance deal for the city of london.
This is going to get much more messy than last time. I hope the EU can influence Queen Theresa to back off, as part of their bargain.
If anyone hasn’t seen Nicola’s letter …
” Dear Theresa “
link to news.gov.scot
Chick McGregor
“No lasting deal with the EU can be arrived at until Scotland’s constitutional future re UK membership is clear.”
That’s how I see it, it’s funny to think that the rUK could get a discount of 8.3% from their Brexit bill of £50 billion from the EU if we vote for Independence.
Another incentive for May to give us a section 30 order.
@K1 – Owen Jones has come off twitter cos he was getting too much ‘abuse’.
Most of the time I think that means folk disagreeing with him but I suppose if 1000s are disagreeing with you it might be a bit stressful.
Angus should have responded with the 50/50 poll
K1 What the fek is it wie the SNP Jones asked Angus a question 4.18 re resources & Oil Angus body swerved it , dont they want the People to know we’re swimming in the stuff FFS.
Aye Ronnie, simply not understanding why our MP’s aren’t responding with up to date data? We know many read Wings…but they don’t have to cite Wings as the source because Wings merely ‘explodes’ the available information as per this article. And yer right the 50/50 recent polling was a missed opportunity from Angus on this occasion.
Oh that was to Liz regarding polls, Ronnie re oil…same thing applies, the new fields all over news this week and Angus ‘blank’ on Jones’s question re oil?
MSN Masters of the Trolliverse
For those of you using computers you should now and again avail yourselves of the MSN opening page where they love to pose questions like could Scotland afford to be Independent
then sit back and in roll the uninformed English folks with their uninformed answers which are just usually an excuse for a Nicola Sturgeon hatefest name calling bonanza
You wont be able to stay long because these people are the dregs of humanity with all the intellect of brain damaged Nematodes but MSN absolutely loves them
It’s worth 5 minutes of your time, but no more as it could be injurious to your mental health even if just to realise there are human looking replicants who are allowed to walk among us unhindered
Plus they got to vote us into this shit while we get no say
on getting out of it and nor do the replicants believe we should have a say either
I have met some zoomers in my life but in Scotland we have a very very low percentage of these Slothwits thank God
There is indeed a threatened Spanish veto after all. Although it is against Westminster this time. 🙂
link to twitter.com
@heedtracker 3:12 pm :
“But after the USA, Russia and China, the highest military spend in the world.”
I wouldn’t mind that so much but 80% of it is pissed up the wall by BAe. The most corrupt company in UK history – so far. The rest is mainly MoD sequential failures to understand that the manufacturer is NOT your friend.
Even when they don’t use BAe its still abject failure ALL the time : link to theregister.co.uk
Disclaimer – I used to work for Racal once upon a when as a post-design services engineer. They morphed eventually into bits of BAe and mainly Thales (think Israeli drones).
Scotland could have a budget of 5bn euros for defence & provided we told BAe to fuck off it’d be a decent force for a decent price.
With BAe it’ll be something that overheats outside the North Atlantic (no joke, happening now to ships in the gulf) or doesn’t work for multiple years (pick a missile system, any missile system they were prime contractors for – seriously!)
Russian state media outlets didn’t report on anti Putin demonstrations . The BBC reported this with a straight face. No mention of anti bias demonstrations outside their windows during the ’14 referendum. BBC@RT. SPUTNIK
“Sinn Féin MPs launch ‘Opening the Debate on Irish Unity’ Tour of England and Scotland”
link to sinnfein.ie
The SNP should organise something similar. That would really confuse Treeza.
With us shouting in one ear about our Scottish Independence and Sinn Fein shouting about Irish Unity in the other and also trying to negotiate a Brexit deal with the EU.
It would drive poor Treeza nuts.
@Marcia
They are not amused!
MPs angered by EU ‘veto’ over Gibraltar
link to archive.is
call me dave @ 17:00,
Just the first EU chicken (of very many) to come home to roost.
Tuk, tuk, tuuuk…
As I understand it a majority of the so called Brexit bill is to cover EU spending commitments agreed to by the UK prior to the Leave vote. It’s a bit like trying to end a phone contract early. It’s not a punishment or fine as long as the UK gets any benefit it was meant to in exchange. That’d be a bit like Sky cutting your access to your subscription as soon as you asked whilst still demanding payment.
Carjamtic 1.26pm. “The intelligence of the people who live here ” are you talking about the majority of the West of Scotland?
I can understand the SNP`s reluctance to use the oil they tried that way back only to get tagged greedy bastards by the UK press(i know incredible right).
And they are trying to portrait an independent Scotland where the oil is a bonus not a need.
Sometimes i think they are keeping that battle for another day and do not want it to be used by the yoons to turn the debate into a pissing match about oil.
Which no doubt the yoons will try to use just like they will try to use anything that can deflect from that most singular issue of self determination.
They will want the debate to be about anything else except that,and that is where we failed last time.
Rev Stu, Brilliant and concise – I can easily remember and repeat those polls now, thank you = )
Capela @10.22 am
You give me hope = )
@Derekm
Spot on
bmw workers uk to strike over pensions
The strike was backed by 93% of BMW employees in the Unite union who voted in the ballot.
um………..
bmw Swindon 55% leave
bmw cowley, oxford 30% leave
bmw goodwood, rolls royce 52% leave
bmw hamshall birmingham 70% leave
maybe now is not the right time?
Shortbread blethering about:
The letter what Nic wrote is a ‘theatrical gesture’ says Mundell.
We all thought it was part of a procedure but there you are.
Prof Keating invited on shortbread for his general view uses a bit of circumlocution saying no way and by the way the Sewell convention has no power, see recent court case, and WM will just ignore.
Agriculture and Fish will go to WM because they will impose a UK wide approach… anyhoo, it’s too complicated for us, leave it to WM. But trouble ahead on the constitution.
Prof Keating being a bit too pragmatic but looking forward to developments. 🙂
So am I looking forward to it all unfolding.
Orri @ 17:09,
Don’t understand the analogy in that last sentence of yours.
In any case, the situation is too complex to describe with any simple analogy, I fear. For example, some of the payment is, I believe, to cover ongoing costs caused to the EU by the UK’s departure, eg. to pay the pensions of UK employees of the EU, whose costs (obviously) continue long after Brexittania has sailed off into the sunset.
And that’s only my imperfect take on this. The UK being bodily ripped out of the EU is more tangled and horrific a process than anyone can probably yet imagine. As we will no doubt discover to our own cost unless we are smart and resolute enough to avoid this slow-motion car crash.
Worth a repost, Nicola’s letter tae hersel’:
link to news.gov.scot
There’s no mincing words from Nicola, we will not be stopped.
re;DerekM@5.11pm
It is an interesting point, oh, the oil! BTwoman said it was running out shut up eat your cereal subsidy junkie, useless Scotland!
I wonder if last time, as the yoons orchestrated events so that it looked like there would be not a teensy drop of oil in an independent Scotland, it had to be very much a side issue. Now, it’s different, there’s loads of the stuff and no denying it!
So, yes, it should be used as an added bonus, stipulating that revenues will be invested in renewables etc. Now, problem, oil is dirty, nasty nasty. The Greens are not happy about it, understandably, but, would they rather WM took it all until it is all gone, frittering away the revenues while actually taking money away from investment in renewables and ruining the planet in all number of ways as well.
I wonder if the yoons will say how horribly dirty oil is, if they can’t get their dirty greedy, rotten mittens on it!
Scotland has plenty aside oil too. If WM establishment would play nice, they could negotiate to reaping some of the rewards from an independent Scotland’s oil, as a you know, a divorcee might, but pigs will fly first.
Robert J. Sutherland
I think you meant to typed Tusk Tusk. 🙂
These people believe in the old adage that “a lie is halfway round the world before the truth has it’s boots on.”
Not quite sure what to make of the EU (Spanish) position on Gibraltar TBH. I don’t think its encouraging for us.
96% of people there voted remain. Pretty sure even now you’d get a 70% “we are UK” vote. This seems to be being ignored by the EU against Council of Europe rules?
Spain has Cueta (other side of the Strait) and Melilla (nowhere near Spanish waters) where 99% of the population are against Spanish occupation.
If the EU is willing to go along with Spain on this one then I rather suspect we’re cannon fodder for the EU too 🙁
Time will tell….
With brexit EU rules will be rewritten.
I wonder how long unionist supporters can hope to keep this little game of fool the public going .the constant parrot fashion the public dont want it , won’t suddenly become true just because they keep saying it , as for Mayhem being in tune with the Scottish public , oh christ Murdos claim must even make him blush, this Unelected P M listens to no one ,every single one of the administrations in these islands cant be wrong they all say the same thing she doesn’t listen .
As for opinion Polls i believe they are being used to influence opinion rather than reflect it just now, they seek to use the herd mentality of sticking together and not wanting to be out of step with others .
Look at the recent ones on major events, The UK election, USA election , EU in out referendum , any other industry that consistently gets it so wrong goes bust ,remember these are private companies , and not for profit organisations they provide the answer the people who pay their wages want ,they have to change their method of conducting their business , as far as i know even after a forced inquiry into their methods they still operate in the same way , disregard most of them they are junk and should be banned one month prior to any vote .
@ Artyhetty
It is a dodgy subject because they have to rely on what they are told from westminster about it all.
Who we all know are masters at creative accountancy so using the figures they have would probably be as reliable as me making up a bunch of figures for them.
The reality is our own government are in the dark as much as the rest of us Scots and that is by design of westminster.
I seen a great tweet it went something like after indy you will collectively need to lift the Scottish people of their backside with the shock of just how rich their country is.
the chances of the uk gettng a transition arrangement now zero.
wto in 2 years is now certain
indeed crashing out of negs this autumn and going straight into wto, very likely
a swing to yes, but getting indyref2 from a then unconstrained WM more difficult
There appear to have been comments from the Germans etc that the deal to leave the EU should be completed BEFORE any negotiations on a trade deal.
It does not seem possible that both can be achieved by Autumn 2018 if the trade deal negotiations won’t even begin until the deal for leaving is finished.
There may never be a trade deal agreed between the UK / EU.
Where does that leave Scotland with regards to an informed choice while avoiding going down the road of divergence with EU law.
Vestas at 5.52
I don’t f0llow your argument at all
If we don’t show up on their doorstep in our thousands demanding fairness NOTHING will change in their output. It’s as simple as that. We should have done a campaign of non payment last ref. They haven’t changed one bit. Last demo was ridiculous in its turnout. Come on people.
The old Spain will use its veto meme has come back to bite the Unionists on the erse big time. Ha ha ha ha ha
link to indiegogo.com
hopefully, this will ensure that we have all the yes merchandise we need for indyref2
please donate
@Vestas.
Actually neither the Council of Europe, the ECHR Treaty the ECrtHR or the CJEU has a remit which extends to matters of national sovereignty. Basically the ECHR and the EU TEU and TFEU treaties, while largely based on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UNHRC essentially have a subset of Human Rights which does not include Self Determination, Territorial integrity and the like.
Technically the only recourse for such matters is a supplication to the UN and/or its judicial associate the ICJ citing infringement of international treaties such as the ICCPR.
Having said that, the EU did help facilitate a referendum for Montenegro but that scenario had a backdrop of violence.
mike d @ 5:10
Intelligence comes from within,like political consciousness,it can grow anywhere but if a mind is closed,it cannot be forced open (some prefer to be told what to think,choose,to be told what to do next,it is important that they have this choice).
When the MSM/BBC/Tory politicians tell only,half truths or lies (remove choice) we must ask for the whole thing and when they refuse,we turn to intelligent people who understand the importance of choice and for the whole truth even if at times it is ugly,the truth has no boundaries.
Don’t you feel sorry for the poor old state of England, still at the end of the day its what they voted for.
Wonder when the riots start.
Carjamtic 6.25pm. I do agree with you,but we’ll never force open the closed minds of the south ayrshire ‘we arra peeps brigade ” sadly when i go home on hols.i hear the unionist shite the majority of them espouse.
Found this from just over 3 years ago, which is quite funny. Oh how times change.
link to bbc.co.uk
I’m afraid those who think protesting or closing down BBC Scotland for a few hours is going to help win the referendum are more likely to be helping to lose the referendum. No matter how frustrating the false information is this type of demo does not help. It may give some self satisfaction for a while but it makes the Yes side look paranoid.
You should also note, you cannot shut down BBC Scotland TV from PQ, the coding and feeds to transmitters do not come directly from PQ but from a centralised point in England. All they need to do is feed network or pre-recorded programmes from there or some other temp site.
Iain says:
TBH I’m not quite sure I know what they voted for, but that doesn’t matter.
What did they think they were voting for? Whatever it was, it isn’t going to be what ordiinary Leavers in the street get.
Immigration was a headline issue. I have always suspected ordinary English folks won’t notice any changes in immigration. They might have thought they would, but Brexit is all about deregulation and a low wage low tax economy. Why else would Tories/UKIP be so keen?
Also, ordinary Mr & Mrs Leaver were sold garbage about the UK getting rich quick and a brave new prosperous future. Maybe they thought is was for real. It won’t be them who get rich, though!
Brexit will undoubtedly benefit its moved and shakers. It will be a disaster for most folk.
But that’s the right wing for you. Their beguilingly simplistic policies always get the backing of the gullible.
Just read Nicola’s letter to oor Teresa.
Not good news for the yoons.
@jfngw
Re BBC, I agree, we need to convert NOs, not ‘get back’ at our enemies.
A NO who still believes the BBC output, how will they view too much aggression towards the BBC? It is just as likely harden their NO-ness.
We need to slowly but surely open eyes to the reality of unfair bias. Softly catching monkeys etc..
Nicola’s letter to May is pretty masterful.
Short and to the point – yet anticipates all the arguments May would try and make and politely but firmly dismantles them all, highlighting May’s hypocrisy on the way. And makes it clear the Scottish Parliament is not just going to quietly accept a “no”.
Neatly done
The only way to mitigate proBritNat propaganda broadcast by the BBC is to stop funding it.
Standing outside Pacific Quay chanting & waving flags is a complete waste of time & totally ineffective.
How many, you might wonder, choose to go to Glasgow to moan about BBC Shortbread only to return home to switch on the telly to see if the media took any notice?
Oh, the irony.
Are you sitting comfortably…?
link to imgur.com
From an email to party members from Nicola …
“It is my firm view that the mandate of the Scottish Parliament must be respected and progressed.
So in the coming weeks, I will set out the next steps I intend to take to ensure that progress is made towards a referendum.
For now though, my focus is to make sure the UK Government respects the will of the Scottish Parliament.”
… wonder what the “next steps” are?
Mayhem should have sleepless nights. Brexit is a poisoned chalice for any PM, and Scotland digging her ribs too. Sympathy? None whatsoever.
Indy House…
link to imgur.com
K1 5.29pm
Re Section 30 letter from Nicola to Treeza:
“…However, if that is not yet possible, I will set out to the Scottish Parliament the steps I intend to take to ensure that progress is made towards a referendum.”
link to news.gov.scot
Brllliant. I do wonder what Nicola has up her sleeve?
I disagree with shutting the BBC down or disrupting their service. That is all counter productive.
What I want to see is some form of alternative broadcasting, whether that’s a U.K. Digital channel for Scotland, or even a European channel which we can get access to watch.
Here’s a cheery article to ponder over. 🙁
Scotland Given Second Chance To Shit Themselves.
link to archive.is
We could prove them wrong… or
Right off to watch footie.
solarflare says:
Quite! I sure am glad Nicola is on our side and TMay on theirs!
EU has also stated that there must be no hard border between the North and South of Ireland. wonder how that will pan out re EU borders.
Could EU refuse any deals on North Sea Fisheries until the position of Scotland is known, therefore forcing a referendum. Nichola definitely has a plan of some sorts.
Proud Cybernat 7:10 pm
Are you sitting comfortably…?
link to imgur.com
I would recognise that angry wee frown anywhere.
Excellent.
@Breeks 7.15 p.m. – Could we have a radio and/or TV channel set up in the Republic of Ireland? Many Wingers are media workers [journalists, film makers etc] – can they answer these points?
Tory eejit on channel 4 News;
“We must stand by the democratic will of the people of Gibraltar”.
What about Scotland’s democratic will, ya clown!!!
Remember this people. If Labour were in power in Scotland and the tories were in opposition. Scottish Labour would be speaking the same language as Carwyn Jones. Instead they are wrongly backing the Tories. In order to try and damage the Snp. But they are damaging Scotland by default.
Their irrational hatred of the Snp trumps their ability to protect Scotland.
Which is why call me dave i have an Irish passport because I would be so fuckin ashamed to call myself scots and an english arselicker.
been trawling the comments of numerous articles and came across a gem which encapsulates Theresas letter beautifully and the EU’s response so I thought I’d share it
‘everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth’
Anyone else see the similarities of “Hyper Normalisation” occurring over Brexit ?? Really worth a watch folks.
Scary similarities to madness occurring with Europe.
See BBC Iplayer Adam Curtis documentary in films section.
We can expect an even further rise in English nationalism – under the guise of British nationalism of course. The bbc will be in the britnat vanguard. Don’t pay the bbc tax. Let britnats pay for britnat propaganda.
Looks like C4 teatime news are not even going to report today’s delivery of Scotland’s historic section 30 letter. So that’s us told.
Or as Telegraph News delights reported 3 hours ago,
Was Nicola Sturgeon trolling Theresa May as she posed to sign the Section 30 letter?”
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Fuck off Torygraph gimps.
I was born in Scotland so qualify for Scottish citizenship.
My daughter was born in England but qualifies for Scottish citizenship.
My wife is English and only qualifies (according to SNP website) for Scottish citizenship if she can show she is ‘of good character’.
might be a problem there
It will not do the liars any good. They just get found out, all the time. People don’t like to be taken for fools. The only ones more despised than the lying Press and MSM are the lying, troughing, corrupt. politicians.
Once the SNP gets a majority again. They can do something about the corrupt electoral system. It is a disgrace. Used by crooked criminal politicians to keep, on embezzling and misusing. public funds. Most of them should be in jail At least they will be out of Office. Not enraging and annoying the electorate with their downright lies. In contempt of the voters. Or lying through their teeth, in smug knowledge the electoral can do nothing about it. Just wait. Their days are numbered. The MSM is in decline and the corrupt politicians will be voted out. That’s for sure.
Dan Huil says:
“under the guise” is right.
Is there really any difference, British/English nationalism?
Because we non-English Britons rightly distinguish between Britain/England and British/English we sometimes assume all Britons can.
The further this goes on, the more I think there is just two natiionalism at play, civic Scottish and blood soil English.
British nationalism probably doesn’t actually exist! Scots adherents to their Union are just wannabe English supporting the concept of a Greater England.
Its now clear. Carwyn Jones, the Labour First Minister in the Welsh government, shows more appreciation, has more empathy with, and is of greater value to sustaining the democratic status of the Scottish Parliament and supportive in the face of the democratic challenge to Scotland as we try to counter a Tory government in Westminster than the Labour Party in Scotland.
And this Scottish Labour Party boasts that it was responsible for giving us the same Holyrood Parliament that is now being disrespected by May’s government and indeed individual Tory MSPs!
How long can Labour Party members sustain the indefensible position of their Scottish leadership? The vote in Holyrood against giving EU nationals and Scotland’s young people a vote in a possible Indyref2 was bad enough but now being less supportive of the Scottish Government’s position in challenging May’s approach to Brexit than Carwyn Jones must surely be the final straw.
@mike d
==========
Sad thing is it is a fantasy unionism, based on antiquated pseudo-religious attitudes now meaningless (but they can’t see it) and which British nationalists south of the border would shake their heads at if they understood what it was really about – but all they see are the union jacks waving and “Rule Britannia” being sung.
@robin
She could always divorce you…
@ European citizens will keep their EU/Scottish citizenship. People can either keep their English citizenship and go in a different queue. Or apply for joint citizenship. All citizenship requires being of good character. In England, there is a multi page document to apply. Answer multiple questions which most residents could not do. Do they have to sing, ‘Gid save the Queen’.
It always looks peculiar when some migrants declare they do what other migrants to have any access to rights.
Migrants will flock to Scotland after we declare our Independence.
The vast majority will be English migrants who wish to retain their EU citizenship and with their migration they will bring business, jobs and opportunity for all of Scotland.
Brexit is the gift that will just keep on giving because the clowns taking part part in the negotiations have no idea how stuffed they already are. Deal or No Deal? No Deal.
David Allen Green, a law and policy commentator for the Financial Times, and a former government lawyer, has some pretty brutal things to say about Theresa May’s letter, one of which is:
“In comparison with the thorough and thought-through draft guidelines published on Friday by the council of the EU in response, the UK letter looks amateurish and shoddy.”
Full article here: link to archive.is
Stu mac 7.55pm. Spot on.
O/t.being born in Scotland and having an Irish passport . does that mean the westmidden gov can deport me to the land of my father after Brexit . answers on a postcard please.
A well run and lawful nation benefits everyone.Unfortunately, for too long we have suffered from being governed by Westminster’s oppressive regime, fueled by corruption and greed that favours a minority comprised of extremely wealthy proven liars, fraudsters and sexual deviants who have the protection of some members of the judiciary and most if not all of our purveyors of “News”,the biggest and most dangerous as we all know being the BBC.
How do we protect our nation, ourselves and our families from these people in the future?
There is only one way to do this.Our first move has to be to take our local councils from those who at the moment wilfully abuse the powers granted to them by the people, “Us”, or if you prefer, We The People.
Once we have the local councils using the monies allocated to them in a fit, proper and expedient way the general public can not fail to notice and appreciate the difference in services that at the present time fall far short of what is rightfully expected from the organisations who collect “Council Tax”.
Next: Independence; Gaining independence will be made easier when honest and compliant councillors who are working for the benefit of the people in their constituencies make it known to those people what has caused the changes that will be apparent to all, even to “committed” no voters, and how quickly all the benefits will disappear if Theresa May’s puppet masters continue on the course of a Brexit that will only put more money in the pockets of the already rich while the poor and vulnerable will be plunged into a Dickensian nightmare.
What I propose can not happen overnight, I and others may not be here to see it but we can leave this world knowing that we have helped to start something that is unstoppable.The Power of People to control their own destiny!
Make sure that you vote well in the upcoming Local elections, do not sit back and think that the EU or UN will help us, they might but do you want to take that chance?
I, as you may notice, have had enough of asking permission from W/Minster to have a decent way of life for my dependents and myself while they sit braying like donkeys or barking like hounds at our elected representatives.
Peace Always
Can someone help me out here?
I’m putting together a complaint to the BBC regarding the main subject matter of this threads article.
Political reject Murdo Fraser also repeatedly refers to the SNP getting on with the day job and he’s not pulled up on it.
Recently i read a posting from someone who completely blows that guff right out of the water and the person stated all the issues the SNP have actually dealt with over the past year or so.
Trouble is, i can’t remember where i read it. I only read WOS, WOS Twitter, GAP, Prof JR and Inform Scotland on a regular basis. So it has to be one of those sources.
Please, folks, i know it will most probably result in the usual BBC response but i intend on using their response to further discredit them and expose their corruption.
Does anyone know the post/comment i’m referring to? If so can you point me in the right direction? It’s a vitally important addition to the case i intend to make.
stoker 1:04
grousebeater did a brilliant blog in April 2016….The SNP’s achievements.
Sorry canny link.
😉
OMG. I have just spent the past 12 hours out in Glasgow. If i was ever afraid of yes voters operating within a vacuum, I’m even more afraid of no voters operating in such a way. What makes it worse is that they start their diatribe with “i don’t want to talk about politics” follow it with 20 minutes of complete unionist shite which as a believer of democracy you remain civil, courteous and polite waiting for your opportunity to inform and as soon as it gets to that point suddenly they say “i don’t want to talk about politics” AGAIN!!!!
I sincerely hope that it is indeed them who are living in a bubble and that that bubble gets a bloody big pin stuck in it very very soon.
carjamtic (1:23 am)
No, it’s more up to date than Grouses article but i will check it out. Thank you!
The post/comment i’m referring to actually numbers the amount of achievements/issues they’ve dealt with.
Thanks again!
stoker
I admire your tenacity but as someone who has over many years written complaint after complaint to the BBC I have now ceased to do so as my blood pressure can no longer take the usual arrogant and patronising response. They are simply laughing at us.
The only way to get their attention is MASS demonstrations outside Pacific Quay but unfortunately there is some reluctance to do so with some on this site describing it as merely “flag waving“ and the only thing to do is stop paying the licence fee which clearly very few people will do.
I remember a few years ago the Rev tested the BBC`s complaint system as far as was possible and got nowhere, so I`m afraid unless we really show en masse that we are seriously angry about their bias then they will continue with the confidence that they are untouchable.
The vast majority on
McDuff (8:01 am)
Aye, very true, but i intend on creating a series of WOS promo cards titled ‘THE FIB FILES and i’m determined to expose the BBC every way i can, and the unchallenged liars they routinely have on their Scottish news, radio and current affairs programmes.
I need to start gathering and filing every bit of factual evidence i can get my hands on. If it’s the last thing i ever do i will get the word out to every household possible, and promote WOS at the same time. Even if it means taking day-trips to the various places throughout Scotland after i blitz my own patch.
😉
Stoker:
I’m trying to catch up with you, is this what you are looking for?
link to caltonjock.com
Peace Always
Smallaxe (8:45 am)
No, it wasn’t, but that’s going straight into my files. Thank you!
Stoker:
Your welcome Boss.
🙂
Peace Always
Stoker:
Probably not exactly what you’re looking for but it’s from the SNPs own website.I will keep looking.
link to snp.org
Peace Always
Ah remember the long list Stoker, it was posted on Wings as ah recall…will keep looking too.
It had every single policy and outcome of their tenure since coming into government. Sure ah saved it at the time but so far ah cannae find it either!
First of all, Wingers, allow me to put the record straight, I’ve not taken the hump at anyone and flounced of in the huff.
I was having speed problems with my internet connections and BT, my ISP, kept insisting my telephone line was not to blame.
“Alert Readers”, may have noticed I had posted that I suspected my line-speed was being deliberately strangled.
The thing was everything was suddenly about 50% slower but Wings in particular was getting strangled to the extent it was lower than 25kbps and I often couldn’t get Wings at all. It had never been great before but was usually a maximum around 1.3Mbps to 1.4Mbps.
I ran traces and found one BT address in particular was either very, very slow or just timed out. In short a BT step was strangling Wings but most other sites were still usable.
The question was were BT deliberately strangling my Indy supporting websites.
Eventually I had suffered enough and went up to Glenrothes and signed up for fibre with Vodafone. So first of all there was a few days gap between BT ending my line and getting the Vodafone line up and running.
At which point there was indeed a BT problem but not with the line to my cottage as I had claimed. which BT insisted there was no problem.
I cannot manage conversations over phone lines so had to trail back to Glenrothes in order to report the fault to Vodafone. It took them all of 5 minutes to check it and get their engineers to correct the BT line-fault that BT were claiming did not exist.
However, like all new router set-ups it has to learn and set itself up. After 24 hours I then got most of my, “Favourite”, web sites … but still not Wings.
On typing in the Wings Web Address my browser kept redirecting me to a Vodafone site that said to leave the Router connected as it was, “Setting itself up”.
Yet Wings was the only site that did this. My suspicions that BT were up to no good seems to have some indications of being correct.
@old highlander says: 31 March, 2017 at 10:52 am:
“Whilst reading these posts I noticed a small red warning on the top right of the page, (chrome) so i hovered over it and clicked,
‘This page is trying to load scripts from unauthenticated sources’”
Seems I may not be the only one with line problems by BT and it may indeed be either BT or the Brigade77 illegally up to no good.
“Never ever noticed it before on wings and it does not appear on any other web pages that I visit so it makes me wonder what is going on?”
So identical to my Wings problem except that I checked out the actual download speeds and while they were all around half their previous values I only found Wings unusable and timing out.
Smallaxe & K1,
Yer a pair o rough diamonds so ye urr, or should that be diamonds in the rough? Thanks to both!
__________
old highlander, Peffers & Co,
That’s exactly what i’ve been experiencing, and still am. The logo at the end of the URL bar is in the shape of a medieval shield, one half of which is black and the other half white. Overlapping that shield is a small red box with a white ‘x’ and if i hover my cursor over it i get the exact same message old highlander is getting. I’m only getting this with WOS. That logo is present as i type this message, had it now for several days. Scratches head whilst displaying puzzled kisser.
@Stoker –
I don’t think I’ve read the comment/post you’re looking for, but it sounds like the type of thing Al ‘Wilderness of Peace’ is very good at – possible you’ve seen it via a link to his blog?
In any event, keep up the sterling work mister. The archive stuff you’re doing is brilliant. I don’t check them all, but it’s the type of thing I used to do meself quite regularly, just flicking back in WOS, almost randomly, to see what was happening and who was btl. It’s amazing, the tricks ‘time’ can play with one’s mind!
@Robert Peffers
Could be because Rev is putting up https, I have that on my dedicated server and on mines’s it’s a dedicated IP address which is rDNS’ed to my server. Rev’s setup is different though, and since he has the anti-DDOS mechanisms from his webhost who knows, that could be causing problems. Added to that it can take anywhere between 2 hours and 72 hours for changes to go global. It can also depend on times to expire – usually when going to make changes you set that low so things can happen quicker.
But one thing you could maybe try is flushing out your own DNS cache – I do it occasionally. It could be there’s some old stuff for Wings kicking around getting in the way.
link to wikihow.com
This IS the 3rd of April
OFgem have taken over BBC regulation for bias and accuracy. Anyone who cannot make a specific complaint to them having visited this site is wasting their time
see complaints process for;
section 5 – Impartiality and accuracy
6 – Elections and Referendums
7 – Fairness
look here and get working link to ofcom.org.uk
Could Scottish Parliament make BBC illegal in Scotland as it appears to be undermining the country. Or at least declare the licence fee as not enforceable ?