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We’re talking about money

Posted on April 25, 2019 by

…unfortunately. The hottest topic of debate within the Yes movement in recent months has been currency, and what sort of it a prospective independent Scotland should use. We’ve avoided it because it’s such a boring and pointless debate (at this stage, at least), and because the impact it had on the first referendum was vastly less than the media frantically insists.

The truth is that in 2014 most people simply didn’t believe the UK government’s claim that it would refuse Scotland a currency union, and nor did most people find it very important anyway. By enormous margins, Scots thought that an independent Scotland would keep using the pound, despite the No campaign’s assertions to the contrary.

We already live in a world of multiple currencies. People buy things seamlessly on the internet from Europe or the USA or China with all the exchange transactions handled automatically and invisibly. It can cause some issues for businesses, but it simply isn’t an issue for the huge majority of voters, however obsessively politics nerds debate it.

But just for the sake of argument, and for the benefit of delegates to this weekend’s SNP conference in Edinburgh, here’s what they think right now.

By comfortably more than two to one in our Panelbase poll conducted in March, Scots want to keep using the pound forever after independence. Yes voters marginally prefer a transition to a new currency, but only one in six want to go there on day one, and almost as many as want to transition want to stay with Sterling permanently. No voters – who are the people we need to persuade, remember – are overwhelmingly in favour of keeping the pound, with only 16% wanting a new Scottish currency at any point.

Wings has no position on the subject, because to be quite honest we don’t understand it well enough. Strong arguments have been made on various sides and we’re not sure which one we favour yet. It’s a decision for an independent Scottish Government.

But what these findings tell us is what the public thinks – and therefore which options would play the best in a referendum – and the public isn’t in much doubt at all.

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    1. Corrado Mella says:

      I despair for the stupidity of the debate.
      Double entrapment.

      We are subjugated by a gaggle of sociopaths that make us use money to pay for things we make and charge us 20% interest on every transaction we do (VAT!).

      Another murmur of sociopaths taunts us with a pointless question of which symbol we would use in front of the debt their masters levy on us.

      I’ll just go and live in a cave for the rest of my life.
      I’ve had enough of this pointless noise.

    2. Sharny Dubs says:

      What if we keep the pound sterling and eventually our economy turns out to be stronger than the RUK.
      Now that would be a hoot!
      ?

    3. Capella says:

      I think it’s the power of the familiar over the unknown. the phrase “a new Scottish currency” is probably too scary for the anxious NO voter who is terrified of change.

      But after independence, things will look very different. As Nicola points out, we need to set up a Central Bank, ensure a stable economy, deliver for business, the people and the economy (six tests). The goal is to do that within the first term of the first Scottish Government. By then, the idea will seem boringly normal.

    4. geeo says:

      Its a super simple message.

      Day before indy: look in your pocket at your £8.45, thats your currency.

      Day after indy: look in your pocket at the SAME £8.45, thats STILL your currency.

      Want to prove it?

      Go buy something on day one of indy, the shop WILL take your money, the world will keep turning.

      If someone tells you that you will need Euro’s post indy, ask them to turn out their pockets and show you the Euro’s they currently have and require, after 40 years of EU membership.

      While they stand gawping trying to figure out what just happened, make good your escape and get on with your day.

    5. Sinky says:

      Also from the Progress Scotland poll in March:

      Q. In the 2014 independence referendum, people decided how to vote for a number of different reasons. Looking back, what were the three most important issues to you when you cast your vote? –

      Base: Those who voted in 2014 referendum (1656 respondents)

      Future of the economy: 46%
      NHS: 41%
      Views on where important decisions should be made: 30%
      Jobs and employment: 27%
      Tax and public spending: 23%
      EU membership: 22%
      Defence and security: 20%
      Negative views about Westminster parliament: 18%
      Schools and education: 15%
      Currency issues: 13%
      Pensions: 12%
      Personal finances: 10%
      Social justice: 9%
      Oil: 7%
      Don’t know: 2%

      The currency issue just made it into the top ten reasons so no reason to get too hung up on it just now as the waverers want the certainty of keeping the pound.

      The priority is getting independence then we can vote for the parties with the best ideas for getting rid of poverty, currency, growing the economy or for continuing EU membership etc.

      Without independence we are powerless to change anything.

    6. Douglas says:

      Thanks, I’m reassured that most folk are not bothered.
      I do think that could change very quickly if (actually when) the pound tanks so it is pragmatic to keep an alternative available.

    7. aldo_macb says:

      I was thinking it will be less of an issue in indyref2 for most people as we move away from using cash to cards.

    8. Baronesssamedi says:

      Everyone knows that their head starts to explode when they think about it too hard, so they’ll hope politicians and economists and other such specialists will sort it out for them. Even the baby-boomers went through decimalisation without anyone dying.

    9. Ghillie says:

      My instinct is that Scotland should of course have it’s own currency.

      When and how that comes about can be sorted out in due course.

    10. Sinky says:

      Q. If another independence referendum were being held now, what would be the three most important issues to you when deciding how to vote? – Base: All respondents (2014)

      Brexit/EU membership: 43%
      Future of the economy: 42%
      NHS: 42%
      Jobs and employment: 27%
      Tax and public spending: 24%
      Views on where important decisions should be made: 23%
      Defence and security: 16%
      Negative views about Westminster parliament: 15%
      Pensions: 12%
      Currency issues: 11%
      Social justice:8%
      Oil: 5%
      Don’t know: 2%

    11. MR GEORGE S GORDON says:

      There is no strong, or even weak, economic argument in favour of keeping the £.

    12. Vestas says:

      Which will change radically if Scotland ever becomes independent.

      Reason : well nobody seems to think England & Wales produces anything any other country wants in any meaningful volume.

      So what is the backstop for England’s debt & if that’s removed what happens other than devaluation.

      There’s an argument that sticking with sterling might mitigate damage in England & that might work for a year or so.

      However ultimately England has to accept they can’t afford what they want, they don’t make anything anyone wants in volume & there’s a limit to how long you can be the world’s moneylaunderers.

      Its not going to be pretty.

    13. David Graham says:

      I think this finding is largely down to folk sticking with the status quo. If it was explained that a Scottish currency was required to implement an independent fiscal & monetary policy – and how those are required to allow us to make the social changes we want, I’m pretty sure the majority would express a preference for it.
      See Richard Murphy blog

    14. ScottieDog says:

      I think it just stems from the fact that the vast majority don’t realise the implications or where money actually comes from.

    15. desimond says:

      The Unionists will simply shout “Whats the point or leaving then!” and many folk will nod in agreement.

      Its the Pensioners and the benefit receivers we have to convince for their security. I think the mortgage holders will be happy pegging to current subscribed rates ( although UK(England, Wales and NI) rates in turn could duly rise with reduction of Scottish tax input to overall economy).

      Short term pairing keeping our options open to executing long term plan would suffice for me.
      I looked at history for a comparison…

      After the dissolution of the Swedish-Norwegian union, in 1905, Norway continued to be a part of this monetary union. The union ended with the outbreak of World War I.

    16. Peter A Bell says:

      Currency is only an issue if you doubt Scotland’s ability to manage its currency affairs. The REAL question is, not ‘What currency?’, but ‘Do you believe Scotland is capable of managing its currency affairs?’.

      It is easy to understand why British Nationalists did not want that question asked. And why their tame media pushed the ‘What currency?’ question with such obsessive vigour.

      What is more difficult to comprehend is why such a large part of the Yes movement allowed itself to be taken in by this transparent device.

      If you are constantly banging on about currency, you are either a cog in the British state’s propaganda machine or you’re a useful idiot. Better to be the former. At least there’s a chance the cog knows it’s peddling pish.

    17. Abulhaq says:

      Nasty BritNat Osborne in the Cameron gov. said no way to iScotland using sterling and because of pointless legalistic bickering and uncertainty it probably killed indyref#1. There is now an even more hard line administration in Whitehall. The recurrent wobble over currency has to be corrected. A very simple solution is a brief £ transition to the €. Isn’t Scotland supposed to be pro EU? What is the problem?
      Not another case of fetishistic nostalgia for things British.
      The cautious, unimaginative, no risk taking Scotch lawyer mentality will kill independence.
      The poll does not give grounds for hope. That’s the price of an ageing population.
      “The Scotlands”, regional retirement reservation for old Brits.
      Scottish nationalism sorely needs a makeover.

    18. paul says:

      You can only make a(ny) decision either way if you have independence.

      Personally, I favour our own currency and we don’t really need a central bank unless we want to join the eurozone, which is as unattractive as a sterlingzone.

      No national currency means no real independence, as the PIGS countries have found (though not admitted).

      The czech republic and slovakia tried a currency union and it lasted 38 days as the two countries were far apart economically and politically.

      Both survived to this day (though the hapless slovaks recently joined the euro).

    19. John Jones says:

      I don’t care what currency I’ll be paid in, it’ll make a change from the peanuts I’m paid now.

    20. robertknight says:

      Print our own and peg it to either the GBP or EUR as our Finance Minister and Exec. Cttee of the Scottish Reserve Bank sees fit.

      How the proposed sharing of Sterling and Carney and Darling’s comments were portrayed in the MSM I’m sure cost us the majority for Yes that was polled shortly before the referendum. Despite his best efforts, Salmond failed to be sufficiently convincing in the face of the Yoon media onslaught.

      I’m convinced that was the issue that lost us 2014; the ‘sharing’ argument simply wasn’t seen as credible.

    21. geeo says:

      @abulhaq

      Its almost like you never read the bit about how CURRENCY HAD VERY LITTLE IMPACT ON THE 2014 VOTE.

      You thick british nationalists and yer agenda, whit ye like eh ?

      Fooling nobody.

    22. Proud Cybernat says:

      Whatever Norway has done then Scotland should transition to and emulate their model. Seems to work for them so would most likely be good for us too.

    23. Tatu3 says:

      The question did not mention or show that staying with the £ does not necessarily mean being pegged to the English £. We could “keep” the £, but it’ll be our £.
      It’ll still be the same Scottish notes in our pockets. No one will notice the difference. Something that cost £1 yesterday, will still cost £1 tomorrow.

    24. galamcennalath says:

      Other things matter more than currency. I suspect those who worry most about currency are well off NO voters. Still, we need to appeal to everyone.

      Sinky says:

      NHS: 41%
      NHS: 42%

      Healthcare, free to all, is quite rightly very important to most folks.

      ( As a related aside, healthcare in NI versus the Rep would appear to be one of the biggest impediments to reunification)

      In IndyRef1 I distinctly remember one survey found that most Scots believed the NHS was a UK wide institution – it never was. Also, about half of NHS staff actually believed it was UK wide.

      When originally created there were three independent services – Scotland, NI, and E&W.

      When the Scottish Executive was renamed to Government, that was the time to rename NHS Scotland into something more distinctive. IMO that alone could have been worth a few percentage points to YES. Next time, we need to hammer home the reality that Scottish health is distinct from England, run differently, run better, and is under threat from Tories/London/Brexit/Trade Deals. Independence will protect our precious health care system, not endanger it.

    25. Patrick Roden says:

      I think we might misunderstand how the Better Together campaign approached indyref 1.

      As far as they were concerned, if they could scare a couple percentage of Scots with each scare story, they could then win the overall vote…and it worked!

      They scared the pensioners with stories about how they would loose their pension.

      They scared shipbuilders with ‘seperashun shuts shipyards’

      and they scared a few percent of the better off, with the currency issue.

      I think starting at less than 25% gave better together the confidence that they would easily scare us into voting No, and they never expected us to get anywhere near 45%.

      Will they try the same tactics this time?

      I hope so!

    26. RMF Brown says:

      George Orwell once said that you should never be afraid to criticise your own side. I say this because the reaction of my post yesterday about Sturgeon acting like the Grand old Duke of York, was typical.

      I’m a Unionist stooge, I’m part of Unit 666, or whatever the f**k it’s called, we’re trolls, etc etc

      But I say this to people: when will the stars ever align like this again? When will the Tory party implode like this again? When will another Brexit type event fall from the heavens into the SNP’s lap?

      Let’s look at the facts. The SNP had 50+ MPs, now they have 30+ MPs. They had a Holyrood majority, now they rely on the Greens. They had thousands of energised activists, now there are a lot of disillusioned activist, because they were fed up sitting with their thumbs up their arses all day.

      Nothing lasts for ever in politics, but the SNP act as though they have all the time in the world. If there is a referendum in 2021, that’ll be 7 years, 7 bloody years! And who knows what will happen between now and 2021.

      Indy supporters should be on their hands and knees thanking God for Brexit, and the SNP should be waving it through, not stopping it!

      Without Brexit, where are we? Back to 2014 and a 45% support holding pattern, with EU officials sitting on Andrew Marr’s coach getting spoon fed the questions, and phantom foreign ministers putting the boot in with so called vetoes on EU membership. We all know the veto was bollocks, but this echo chamber isn’t Scotland’s high streets where the voters live.

    27. CameronB Brodie says:

      Well I’m afraid I don’t have a theory that is specific to choosing currencies, but I have a more general one that I think applies to Scotland in general.

      Fear of the unknown: One fear to rule them all?
      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82648946.pdf

    28. Dunbar's Ghost says:

      There are so many anomalies in this poll that it is difficult to know where to start. One thing is clear, the majorty of those polled apparently have little grasp of the role a currency plays in a nation’s economy (as opposed to it’s role in their pockets). Another is that there is an unjustified faith in sterling and its manangers to pro==vie an independnet Scotland with the services it requires to flourish.
      This is quite apart from the fact that option 3 ‘a new scottish currency immediately’ is nonsense; it couldn’t possibly be done, Even Craig Dalzell proposes a three-year ‘transition period’.
      An just how much account should we take of what No voters think about an indeendent Scotland’s currency? frsnkly I’m surprised that 61% wasn’t 91.
      As for the ‘6 tests’, if using sterling meant they could be achieved, we might wonder why the Westmonster Govt. has failed so disastrously to achieve them, or why, in the unlikely event they were achievable
      To quote Dalzell:
      “Then there is, of course, the central question of what this would condemn Scotland to in the first decade of independence. We’d be stuck with the UK’s tax code, the UK’s banking regulation, the UK’s monetary policies and presumably we’d need to adapt our regulatory framework to match Britain’s after it leaves the EU. What chance does Scotland have of being successful if we basically replicate the UK economy but with enormous added instability? , why we should then need our own currency.”
      I’m not denying that this is what the publis thinks; the object of an independence campaign on this question is to explain why an independent Scotland, in order to take advantage of it’s resources and invest in it’s economy, has to have it’s own currency.

    29. Rosemary MacKenzie says:

      Hey! Peter Bell -you are back. Hope you are doing good as they say in NS!

      Regarding currency – suspect most of the public are not very up on it either and vote in their comfort zone – ie to keep the pound. The Scottish government will look after it and transition to a new currency with lots of advice from us.

      Personally, I wouldn’t be wanting to stick with crumbling sterling but I don’t know anything about currency either. Its value just goes up and down.

    30. schrodingers cat says:

      guardian article about the treeza corbyn talks beginning to break down

      there’s a surprise

      re what currency will we use?

      the same one the english use to buy our oil

      (nb brent crude at $75 a bbl)

    31. geeo says:

      You don’t have any theories, CBB, you have other people’s theories.

      Why not tell us YOUR views on the currency issue ?

      Surely you can think for yourself ?

    32. orri says:

      Going by that there will be a period after independence where the majority feeling is to keep Sterling.

      However unlike the EU referendum I don’t see an independent Holyrood Government sticking dogmatically to Sterling or those who currently want it permanent not changing there minds if it becomes obvious to them that their financial best interests would be in adopting a new currency.

      Essentially the answer has to be Scotland will used Sterling until such times at it suits Scotland to not use Sterling. Scotland might adopt a virtual currency at some point tied to either Sterling or to the Euro if needed to eventually adopt the Euro as out official currency. Such a currency may never be actually be issued.

      We will also insist on our fair and equitable share of the assets of the former UK including part of the Bank of England either as a going concern or removed from it. The rUK can accept that and the minority stake that gives us or they can buy us out.

    33. CameronB Brodie says:

      Why do I think this important?

      Exploring fear of the unknown

      Okay, from the research so far, what are we discovering about anxieties related to this fear?

      The cumulative research to date suggests that how we interact with unknowns is a critical element for understanding anxiety-related psychopathology; however, there is also growing evidence that how we interact with unknowns plays key roles in many or even most facets of the human experience-from emotions to personality to decision-making; accordingly, the better we are able to understand our interactions with unknowns, the better we can manage those interactions and therein our lives.

      We may be able to improve our interactions with unknowns by recognizing that unknowns can make us uncomfortable, but we cannot always know and so we should practice coping with not knowing.

      https://www.uregina.ca/external/communications/feature-stories/current/2016/07-20.html

    34. schrodingers cat says:

      a lot of callers on lbc james o brian from scotland saying they were no now yes

      the only yes to no was a brexiter from aberdeen, who got short shift from james

    35. CameronB Brodie says:

      geeo
      You do appear extremely resistant to good advice. What exactly is your problem with education?

    36. schrodingers cat says:

      RMF Brown says:
      But I say this to people: when will the stars ever align like this again?

      ——————–
      hate to be a pedant etc

      since the firmament is fixed, they are like this all the time, planets however do “wander” and occassionally line up 🙂

      when we know exactly what brexit means, they will truly be in alighnment, a perfect storm if you wish, then, and only then, will the cows come home to roost 🙂

    37. Mad Unionist says:

      ROI had the pound then the punt and now the euro. Scotland could call it’s currency anything it wants as long as it is convertible on the markets.

    38. schrodingers cat says:

      Peter A Bell says:

      If you are constantly banging on about currency, you are either a cog in the British state’s propaganda machine or you’re a useful idiot. Better to be the former. At least there’s a chance the cog knows it’s peddling pish.
      —————–

      meow

    39. Street Andrew says:

      “We’ve avoided [the currency issue] because it’s such a boring and pointless debate.”

      Sorry, Stu you are totally wrong about that IMO.

      It’s actually fundamental to the success of an Independent Scotland. It’s the foundation stone of sovereignty.

      Without it we will be into the realms of Brigadoon. Lots of fantasy hopes and no control of the economy to realise them.

      Get the bagpipes out, dress-up in kilts and watch Scotland’s prosperity continue to be sucked-away to London and beyond. 🙁

    40. Bobp says:

      Capella 1.41pm. Exactly, a bit like the smoking ban. All the doom merchants, oh it will never work etc. Now its old hat like, what was all the fuss about.

    41. orri says:

      One thought. If the UK had joined the Eurozone no doubt regaining an independent currency would have been one of the major aims of Brexit rather than a shared currency being the largest impediment to it.

    42. gary says:

      watching the bbc brit nat newsnight last night and the same old twats from 2014 rolled out, saying the same old crap about no desire for indy ref blah blah.. Douglas alexander smug puss spouting the usual crap. creepy get not a hair out of place lying through his teeth for his london masters!.
      What was disappointing was steven gethins? contribution was so weak and unchallenging it almost gave credence to the unionists argument.
      The only one talking with any fighting spirit on the YES side was Ross greere?
      As an SNP member, its so frustrating to see these unionist gets getting a free hit all the time. When will the SNP spokes people take the gloves of and start hitting back! or challenghing the lies directly?!!

    43. CameronB Brodie says:

      I always knew we get around to dealing with “uncertainty”, and I can’t think of a better topic to poke at it, than currency.

      The Complexity of Fear
      Are you experiencing anxiety, or is it fear?

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201112/the-complexity-fear

    44. Great to see Peter A Bell back.

    45. CameronB Brodie says:

      In a world of “uncertainty”, an holistic approach to decision making is recommended.

      Managing Uncertainty
      Principles for improved decision making

      Abstract
      Effective management of uncertainty can lead to better, more informed, decisions. However many decision makers and their advisers do not always face up to uncertainty, in part because there is little constructive guidance or tools available to help. This paper outlines six Uncertainty Principles to manage uncertainty. These were arrived at following extensive discussions and literature reviews over a five year period. While this is an important topic for actuaries, the intended audience is any decision maker or advisor in any sector (public or private).

      Keywords
      Decision making; Uncertainty; Unquantifiable; Biases; Resilience

      https://www.actuaries.org.uk/documents/managing-uncertainty-principles-improved-decision-making

    46. Karen Davies says:

      Personally I don’t really care if we use cowrie shells as long as we get independence. A currency has the value people agree it has. BUT, I am leery of continuing with the UK pound in case the Dirty Tricks Department decide to mess with us. Other options, fine. Use the Euro, use the Norwegian Krone or Swiss Franc, use a new currency pegged to any of those. Transition to full use of the Euro if we think it’ll benefit us to do so. Float our own currency independently if that’s better. Any of those will work. I’d just like to see us avoid being vulnerable to rUK economics.

    47. kapelmeister says:

      Economic issues should not imo be the front line of Indy campaigning. Yes, the need for Holyrood control of the levers of Scotland’s economy, and how that safeguards jobs and communities, has to be a major part of an independence bid. However humans are political animals before we are economic ones.

      The emphasis of a Yes campaign has to be the overall need for political independence and its social, cultural and psychological benefits as well as the economic ones.
      Getting bogged down in the minutiae of currency plans allows the unionists to trivialize the political.

    48. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sharny Dubs says:25 April, 2019 at 1:37 pm:

      ” … What if we keep the pound sterling and eventually our economy turns out to be stronger than the RUK.
      Now that would be a hoot!”

      There is no what if about it, Sharny. The pound Scots would immediately start to harden against the Pound English. Which was exactly why the McCrone Report was marked, “Top Secret”, and hidden away by Westminster unionist parties for several decades because it warned of that very thing.

    49. galamcennalath says:

      Karen Davies says:

      I’d just like to see us avoid being vulnerable to rUK economics.

      They can’t be trusted now, they won’t be any more trustworthy in the future.

      Since using Sterling is what the majority seem to want, then perhaps rUK perfidy offers an opportunity. Begin with using Sterling (it is partly ours anyway) with plans to change when appropriate. However any future ‘funny business’ from Westminster will change Scots’ views and allow us to switch to an alternative by popular demand.

    50. Bill Hume says:

      I don’t really care too much about what the money in my pocket is called. I really don’t give a toss provided it does the job of allowing me to exchange it for the week’s shopping etc.

      What I do care about is that all the money from oil, electricity, whisky, etc which is produced or extracted or manufactured in Scotland STAYS in Scotland and not used to finance things like a London super sewer or Crossrail or nuclear submarines or HS2 or a new English nuclear power station.

      That is the message we need to get out to Scottish voters.

    51. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      James Caithness @ 16:00,

      Likewise. (Something must be happening! =grin=)

      The stats Stu provides are very convincing. As smooth a transition as possible into indy is what will gain most support, however frustrating this may be for the currency absolutists.

      As others have already remarked, what is “comfort blanket” at the moment will become “excess baggage” soon enough, so we will transition into our own currency soon enough, I’m sure. Don’t want to keep passively propping-up a sinking English Pound for too long, eh? =laugh=

      I think the SNP are proposing to pitch this about right. We are wise not to get too fraught over this issue, since all it would do is supply fodder for the expected BritNat distraction operation. As it is, the change exposes all their duplicity.

    52. Footsoldier says:

      Gary @ 3.40pm. SNP spokes people think they are great at media presentation and are especially fond of getting bogged down in endless detail, zzzzzzzzz…….! I know a senior SNP spokesperson who is very competent but rubbish at challenging or the quick rebut and unfortunately is not alone. The poor SNP presenters are much favoured by the media.

      I sometimes wonder if they have ever done any role playing in dealing with Unionist comments live on air. It is a pretty much essential thing to do but if they do not see the need it will not happen. A fringe event of role playing at conference where the audience test their skills by asking unionist questions would be very interesting.

      Just keep shouting at the telly for relief.

    53. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Agree entirelywith you onthis one,Stu. Here is the letter I sent to newspapers recently

      “I am entirely underwhelmed by our frantic debate about currency. It doesn’t matter a whit what decision the SNP conference takes on currency as an independent Scottish Government (of whatever hue) will not be bound by it and it will take currency decisions in the future in light of the circumstances it finds itself in. We have stated that initially sterling will remain in use as we choose independence and we will move to our own currency at an appropriate and sensible time as we sort out the details of the separation. That is all we can sensibly know and all our people need to know. “

    54. Rosemary MacKenzie says:

      Noli timere – don’t be afraid. Seamus Heaney

      A password for Scotland.

    55. gary says:

      Thanks Footsoldier. I agree completely

    56. Bill Hume says:

      Footsoldier and Gary.Yes, endless detail does no good.
      Ponder for a second that the USA has elected the worst, stupidest, corrupt and orange President in it’s history.

      He didn’t win by debating on endless trivia.

      He just said “I’ll make America great again”.

      It got him elected.

    57. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Karen Davies @ 16:09,

      Irrespective of the currency option we adopt for legal tender, I think there is a good case to be made for also making the euro legal currency. That is, to make it an optional permitted payment medium “in parallel” with the established official currency, a denomination that traders can accept if they so wished, and one in which people could open bank accounts if they so wished.

      Could be good for tourist business, for example. And help get ordinary people used to dealing with different cuurrency options as we transition from UK pounds into our own.

    58. galamcennalath says:

      Just thinking about something I learned many decades ago and had really forgotten …

      “SWOT analysis is a strategic planning technique used to help a person or organization identify strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats related to business competition or project planning. “

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis

      I suspect not enough forethought was put into weaknesses and threats in IndyRef1. The message was positive and the campaign quite rightly highlighted strengths and opportunities. However, perhaps more planning could have been done on the negative shit BT was inevitably going to dredge up. It was inevitable, with hindsight, but YES is its various forms wasn’t perhaps sufficiently prepared for it.

      Next time, BritNat arguments should be identified and debunked before they can take hold!

    59. Capella says:

      David Lidington, the unofficial Deputy Prime Minister is in Glasgow telling us that we won’t get a S30 order. Is that so, David?

      Nicola says David Lidington is a member of a government that is clinging to power by its fingertips and has zero authority and credibility.

      “I’m not going to spend too much time bothering about the diktats of a government that I expect will be out of office before too long”

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48053363

    60. maxxmacc says:

      The UK pound used to be the strongest reserve currency in the world not that long ago. It is now less than 2%, whereas the Euro is 20% (the dollar is still king with over 50%).

      There is little difference between the pound and the Euro so surely adopting the Euro is the most sensible option. People will be too scared to back the concept of a Scottish pound, but the Euro holds no fear for anyone, and will probably soon be on parity with the pound.

    61. Not Convinced says:

      What I would expect to happen would be for iScotland to follow the same sort of currency path as the Irish Free State / Republic of Ireland did. Start with sterlingisation, but move towards a currency board situation i.e. where there’s a Scottish £ which is backed, and fully convertible to £-sterling at a fixed 1:1 ratio (we already have a bit of a head start towards this). Later on, break the link and have a fully floating Scottish £. At an even later date, maybe adopt the € but to be honest I couldn’t see iScotland getting to a position where that last step was realistically possible in less than 10 years and a lot might happen in that time.

      I’ve said Scottish £ above, and I feel it’s pretty likely that’s what it would be called at least at first. However after the link is broken, maybe the Scottish Government might decide to call it something else? After all, there doesn’t seem to be a large group of people bemoaning the fact that the Australian Pound no longer exists?

      The Irish Free State / Republic of Ireland took an awful long time to move from a fixed to floating exchange rate (wrt £ Sterling), something that Scotland might want to do sooner. My opinion is that it’s important to get from Sterlingisation to Currency Board as fast as possible, because that way the link can be broken at any time if it’s desirable.

    62. CameronB Brodie says:

      galamcennalath
      I got the impression the first indyref hit before the SNP were ready for it. That hopefully won’t be the case this time.

      Strategy under uncertainty

      The traditional approach to strategy requires precise predictions and thus often leads executives to underestimate uncertainty. This can be downright dangerous. A four-level framework can help.

      https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/strategy-and-corporate-finance/our-insights/strategy-under-uncertainty

    63. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 25 April, 2019 at 1:41 pm:
      ” … I think it’s the power of the familiar over the unknown.”

      What would be the difference, Capella? No matter what they called it the currency would be in base 10. As are all modern currencies. The only things they would need to change would be the name and the pictures on the notes and coins.

      What does matter is if it is tied to any other currency or not. The actual currency would be the main notes divided up to the base 10.

      The point that the general public just doesn’t get is that Westminster is NOT the legal parliament of England. Also that The Bank of England and the pound does not, and never has, belonged to England.

      The Treaty of Union agreed that both kingdoms in the union would use the Pound Sterling but that the Scots banks could legally print their own banknotes.

      The Bank of England began as a subscription service to bail out the English Crown/parliament and got a Royal Warrant to be a private company bank called, “The Governor & Company of the Bank of England. (not because England owned it but because England, (the government), banked with it.

      It remained a private company until 1946 and was nationalised by The United Kingdom and there are two kingdoms in the United Kingdom. Westminster is NOT the legally elected parliament of England so on the disuniting of the United Kingdom the Parliament of the United Kingdom ceases to exist and there is no legally elected parliament of the Kingdom of England.

      So, there you go, after the disuniting of the kingdoms England has no legal parliament and the only problem after they elect one is do the two kingdoms tie their Pound Sterling currency together or not.

      The very idea of doing so was the reason the McCrone Report was marked top secret and hidden away from the public for several decades under both Tory and Labour Governments. It scared the shit out of them then – and it still does.

      Because it wouldn’t be the pound English that would have the most influence – it would be the pound Scottish and the so called Bank of England would be partly owned by Scotland who would demand seats on the board. Either that or one kingdom could buy out the other kingdom’s negotiable share of the bank of England.

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      maxxmacc
      We’re a zillion miles away from making that sort of decision, but I doubt you’d find many Greeks who are fans of the European Central Bank, who run the Euro.

    65. Orri says:

      How can you have sterlingisation if you’re already using Sterling?
      All the use of that word does is concede the point that Westminster will be sole inheritors of the Bank of England. Something they should be made to pay for it that’s the way it goes.

      Back to the Euro. No country, to my knowledge, has left. However there’s got to be some way the “independent” bank that pooled it’s resources with the European Central Bank can disentangle. Scotland’s case should be just as complicated or easy. Far easier if RBS had become defacto part of the BoE trading in Scotland.

    66. Moonlight says:

      I am not economist or a financial expert. I cannot see why establishing a Scottish pound, let´s call it the SCP for simplicity, should be difficult.

      I expect a more learned contributor to shoot me down in flames, but we all might learn from such an exercise.
      Independence day. The pound in your pocket is exactly the same as it was the day before. Whether a Scottish note or an English one.
      As English notes are not generally distributed by our banks, over a period of time they will be collected up and replaced by Scottish notes, one for one. The English notes will be lodged with our new central bank. (SCB)

      Instead of sending these English notes back to England they are stuffed (metaphorically) into a big safe and kept as reserves by our new central bank. Over a period of time the majority of notes in circulation will be Scottish ones, but they are now anyway.
      The SCB will retrieve from the BOE our deposits which have been made over the years as guarantees of our own Scottish notes. Plus whatever Scotland’s negotiated share of the BOE pot may be. That’ll be a nice addition to the reserves.

      Businesses should be encouraged to accept payment in EUR and USD, especially in the tourism industry. Scottish banks should be instructed to allow parallel accounts in the three currencies. Importantly Banks should be instructed to allow transfers between accounts on a no fee or commission basis at the market rate. The SCB can take these currencies in and issue, or permit to be issued, SCP to replace them. The reserves grow.
      Note, at this time Scotland will still be using the pound whether it is the SCP or the GBP, they will still have the same value
      All taxes and fees owed to the Scottish government will be paid in SCP.

      Over a period of time, I don’t predict how long, a close look at the economy will make clear when it is appropriate to float off the Scottish pound into the FX markets. When that happens the SCP and the GBP will cease to be linked and will grow apart. I would hazard a guess the the value of the SCP will go up and the GBP down.

      Nothing much to be afraid of so far.

      With a booming Scottish economy it may well be that some other linking may need to be made, or quantities of other currencies purchased by the Central Bank in order to prevent over valuation of the SCP, Norway has to do this and Germany is grateful for the EUR on the same basis.

      Where I refer to SCP,EUR,USD and GBP as notes and there will indeed still be cash circulating, most of these transactions and accounts will be in the form of strings of computer code. Makes it easier really. But it is nice to feel the money.

      OK, so I now expect the economically literate to tell me I’m spouting rubbish, but I need to be educated as do the Scottish population.

    67. Golfnut says:

      I believe the Scottish Pound is already listed in some countries currency exchange rates, I think during indyref it was higher than Sterling, it may have dropped by now. The point is, from the day Scotland votes to end this union, the Scottish pound will be listed separately. If as expected, the the Scottish Pound rises, it will be the markets that make it happen and have sod all to do with westminster or Holyrood, initially at least.

    68. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffer – Yes I agree Robert. But the average man and woman on the street gets jittery at the idea of change. The more conservative, the more jittery.

      Remember the fear of decimalisation when it was first suggested? Great resistance from the general population and deep suspicion about the motives of the goverenment. But now it’s accepted (though I wouldn’t put it past some BREXITEERS to want the old imperial system restored).

      Like the monarchy, the currency is best left undisturbed as much as possible until a Scottish Government is in a position to deliver the wishes of the voters.

    69. Hamish100 says:

      I believe in the Good Friday agreement an all Ireland vote can be held every 7 yrs. Its a generation thing.UK govt signed up to it.

    70. Legerwood says:

      Moonlight @ 5.04 PM

      Please try to avoid saying ‘the pound in your pocket is worth the same’. Many people will remember that phrase from the days of Harold Wilson who used it after he devalued the pound. You are not the only one on the thread to have used it.

      Best to avoid it because it will be remembered especially by those of a certain age who are most resistant to any messing about with the currency.

    71. ronnie anderson says:

      Graham Campbell
      23 hrs
      There has been some misinformation but also heated debate on social media regarding today’s Processions Committee in Glasgow City Chambers ruling regarding upcoming the All Under One Banner (AUOB) Indy March. There have even been claims this is part of an establishment conspiracy to prevent the March. Nonsense!

      For a start all the councillors who can sit on the Processions Cttee are entirely pro Indy – nearly all elected only in 2017 mostly SNP. These are the same people who rightly refused permission for the ‘Apprentice Boys’ to march past the same Catholic Church where a priest was so disgustingly assaulted. That decision quite rightly led to that particular group cancelling because they chose to accept the Council decision.

      Of those who sat on Processions today 2 SNP and 1 Green colleague have been named by AUOB as if to call them out. AUOB have also tweeted a grossly misleading report of what happened. They’ve even misrepresented the comments I briefly exchanged with their two reps Neill Mackay and Manny Singh whilst they were waiting in the Councillors corridor for the Processions decision and I was getting a coffee from our works canteen.

      I greeted them and asked why they were there (I hadn’t realised Processions was on) but then I asked if they had complied with all the Licensing conditions. To which there was no direct answer other than to say the Council can’t ban demos and if it tried that they would flout whatever decision was made anyway.

      One of them then went off on a rant about Nicola calling a referendum. Wasn’t I aware ‘that SNP has elections coming’ ? I pointed out, quite gently I thought, that was not what the Council Processions Committee has the power to decide.

      He seemed to be intent on having an unnecessary confrontation with Councillors, Council officers and police.

      I tried to explain how bad it looks if Indy supporters don’t obey the rules when it quickly became clear this was a dialogue of the deaf. So I ended the conversation on friendly terms but said on departing that if this was how they spoke to someone they know – and who is sympathetic to their views such as having the referendum called sooner rather than later – then i wondered how they might be coming across with Councillors and Council officers. I wished them luck and left them to wait.

      Despite the plainly irresponsible attitude of AUOB, Councillors have responded to police safety concerns by giving AUOB the chance to allay those concerns. In light of little proper preparation for a large demo being evidenced, Councillors granted permission providing AUOB agreed to bring the demo start time forward a couple of hours – i.e. to the same time most large demos in Glasgow usually start.

      The arrogance and contempt shown by the applicants for the quasi judicial legal processes which the Council must follow regarding every type of political procession, was breathtaking if not totally surprising. But like everyone else organising a demo, AUOB has to go through the same processes Labour trade unionists on MayDay or Orange Order marchers on 12th July must go through.

      The decision today will not have been taken lightly but to be very clear there was no question of trying to stop the march. It’s been permitted at an earlier start time with a slightly amended route. It’s still going from Kelvingrove Park to Glasgow Green.

      Contrary to what you might read on social media – the very fact that Pro-Indy councillors have decided this should tell you that it is the applicants who are out of order here. They simply would not listen to reason or sense and they’re refusing to take crowd safety, timing, routing and having sufficient stewarding, first aid and toilets seriously.

      If the crowd is as large as we all hope it might be – say 50,000 to 100,000 – then we have to take their safety seriously. People with their kids and families will be there. So having more time for folks to arrive, assemble and march – with more than just 200 stewards (should be more like 2000) – should be just plain common sense.

      Sadly the two AUOB reps who attended today are potentially bringing the whole Indy movement into disrepute by behaving in this unreasonable way. One of them seemed to relish the idea of confrontation with the Council and police rather than working together to ensure everyone exercises their democratic rights and freedoms in safety.

      People on our side of the argument should not be coming across in the same way as the bampots to found amongst our more nasty opponents.

      We must remember that we have to convince people (most who won’t be marching) to vote yes in a future IndyRef. Deliberately flouting what a progressive pro Indy Councillors are asking for, doesn’t strike me as the way to convince people currently undecided about independence.

      As is their way to noise up the Yes movement to get them to turn out . Pathetic .

    72. CameronB Brodie says:

      The debilitating condition leading to jitters on the street, is under intensive investigation. That’s jitters, cloth-ears. 🙂

      Cognitive dissonance and resistance to change: the influence of commitment conformation and feedback on judgment usefulness of accounting systems

      Abstract

      This study investigates the effects of commitment, conformation and feedback on people’s judgment about the usefulness of costing systems and, in turn, people’s resistance to change. Building on the theory of cognitive dissonance, this study predicts that commitment to a particular course of action will cause people to become insensitive to the potential benefits of the rejected alternative.

      A laboratory experiment was conducted to examine why people are motivated to resist change and what mechanisms they use to rationalize their judgment. Results from the experiment indicated that people’s judgments about the usefulness of costing systems were influenced by their commitment to their
      favored system. People assessed only a subset of their knowledge to support their desired conclusion.

      Consequently, committed people refused to change their chosen system even when facing negative feedback. In addition, the results confirmed that people normatively know that their judgment should be objective yet they unconsciously make prejudiced judgments biased toward their committed course of action. # 2000 Elsevier Science Ltd. All rights reserved.

      2. Background theory and hypotheses
      2.2.3. Perceived objectivity

      The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people are unaware that their judgments are influenced by their prior beliefs. People do not realize that they are using only a subset of their relevant knowledge not realizing that they also possess knowledge that could be used to support the opposite conclusion. To examine this issue, the following hypotheses will be tested.

      Ha7: People will not admit that their assessment of the usefulness of the costing systems are influenced by their commitment to a chosen system.

      Ha8: People will agree that managers should be objective in their assessment of the usefulness of a costing system.

      https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/20f2/ecba7e43f8e822bf047051aa4cd394a012c4.pdf

    73. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Moonlight @ 17:04:

      I am not economist or a financial expert. I cannot see why establishing a Scottish pound […] should be difficult.

      Well, quite. I’m in the same boat, and what do we know? I don’t expect it will be entirely trivial either, though. But manageable by experts who do know, when the time is right.

      The current task is simply to convince enough people that a transition to indy will not involve currency complications of any kind. So you, I and virtually everyone else can relax, not bother our heads about the thorny details, not stir up any unnecessary potential confusions about it, and rely on it happening eventually when we’re ready – in the widest sense.

    74. CameronB Brodie says:

      ronnie anderson
      Is that the Scottish rad-left playing at being Citizen Smith? Pathetic, if so.

    75. ScottieDog says:

      “What does matter is if it is tied to any other currency or not. The actual currency would be the main notes divided up to the base 10.”

      It matters a lot because the Scottish central bank would have to accrue enough of the foreign currency to guarantee the peg. That would impact the economy.

    76. Sirtoph says:

      Only a fool would reconsider there vote due to currency, the fact that this is sadly a fact plays into the hands of MSM. I’m beginning to believe too wee too stupid

    77. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “An just how much account should we take of what No voters think about an indeendent Scotland’s currency?”

      Well, I suppose it depends whether we want them to change their minds or not.

      *rolleyes*

    78. Mark Russell says:

      I had hoped that a transition to Scottish independence might have heralded a new period of enlightenment and radical reform, particularly for money and currency matters, but from your poll above, I fear that is unlikely whatever destination the country chooses.

      Money supply and central bank policy is THE problem facing the world presently – not just Scotland. Our entire financial system is controlled by private individuals – not nations or governments. The latter are simply middle level managers facilitating an increasingly corrupt global network – and when you realise this, the notion of functioning democracy becomes completely absurd and obsolete. The real seat of power in the UK is not Westminster but the square mile of the City. Who controls the City and the supply of money that passes through its coffers are the Masters of the Universe, as Tom Wolffe observed with Bonfire of the Vanities.

      Go spend some time researching Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). If we regain control of the money supply and the banking system, anything becomes possible. The possibilities Adam Smith offered with the Wealth of Nations could be easily achieved if the profits of our labours are invested for future generations, rather than lining the pockets of a few family dynasties.

      If we are to address all the pressing problems on this planet – grave levels of pollution and unsustainable consumption – we will have to do this sooner or later. Or face real failure with self made extinction. There are only two things that make Earth inhabitable – water and the atmosphere. Both are essential to our survival – but we continue to tolerate a system that will irrevocably alter both natural resources sufficiently to make that impossible.

      There was a romantic thought that Scotland might have been the catalyst. Doesn’t look like it from the comments and poll. Let’s hope the youngsters with ER can join the dots instead…

    79. yesindyref2 says:

      On the other hand, from the day of referendum Ashcroft poll, the pound was the highest reason for people voting NO when asked to pick 2 or 3 issues at 57%, and “The risks of becoming independent looked too great when it came to things
      like the currency, EU membership, the economy, jobs and price
      ” for THE most important reason at 47%.

      https://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Lord-Ashcroft-Polls-Referendum-day-poll-summary-1409191.pdf

      On top of that, Unionist agitators use it as a weapon, which probably increases its importance during an actual campaign.

    80. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland’s unwillingness to help itself is a learned-condition, to a large extent. Scottish intelligence is often bad intelligence. Remember! There is no ‘I’ in team America!

      Stubborn person: How recognize him immediately and overcome his stubbornness
      https://psychology-spot.com/stubborn-person/

    81. yesindyref2 says:

      The answer of course is simple. Do the sterlingisation thing for a few years, maybe even longer, but also have our own currency, the Scots Pound, from day 1, exactly as we have now, with use increasing organically. Run the two in parallel, sterling as the foreign currency, the Scots Pound as the local one. Again, exactly as we have now.

      No reason you can’t two legal currencies, exactly the same as we have now.

    82. CageyBee says:

      Re the currency I still think we need to at least float the idea of going to a base12 or even base16 to aid numeracy skills and if we end up using £sd as the units it would at least noise up the hoi polloi down south

      Oil

    83. geeo says:

      CameronB Brodie says:

      25 April, 2019 at 3:21 pm

      geeo
      You do appear extremely resistant to good advice. What exactly is your problem with education?
      ……..

      Comedy Gold.

      Still awaiting any “good advice” from you.

      Try this (again)

      Instead of posting links to theoretical pseudo babble, why do you not post YOUR PERSONAL OPINION on a subject ?

      You NEVER do that, and that makes you a spammer.

      I asked you directly, what is YOUR opinion on currency in an indy Scotland ?

      I don’t think that quite merits your wittering defensive responses.

      Just answer the question, its not a test, its not a challenge, its a simple question.

      Read the threads, everyone except you, gives personal opinions on a myriad of topics.

      So again.

      What is your view on the currency question, as i am sure people would like to know what you think about it ?

    84. Undeadshuan says:

      For Scotland a sovereign fiat currency is the best option.

      It can never go bankrupt.
      It allows full control of all monetary policy, which using GBP does not as we are beholden to England/RUK’s descisions on interest rates etc.
      It allows us to issue bonds and be in debt to ourselves like Japan and UK has done with quantative easing.

      To share the pound is to have relationship similar to greece with the Euro.

      http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=42170

    85. ronnie anderson says:

      sos for last post

    86. CameronB Brodie says:

      geeo
      I’m Joe Soap in a flat, with zero social capital. Who wants to read my opinion, or yours for that matter?

      Are you trying to be obtuse or do you really think you know it all? Your coming across as a bit of a narrow-minded arsehole, do yourself a favour and don’t get me on your back.

    87. Robert Peffers says:

      @robertknight says: 25 April, 2019 at 2:37 pm:

      ” … How the proposed sharing of Sterling and Carney and Darling’s comments were portrayed in the MSM I’m sure cost us the majority for Yes that was polled shortly before the referendum.”

      Not true. If indeed currency issues cost us the referendum it was because numpties believed a load of rubbish because they lacked the simple process of being able to think.

      You do not need to be an Einstein to be able to work out the truth nor do you need to be a currency expert. Have you ever bothered to read the McCrone Report, Robert? The most telling thing in the entire document was Prof McCorone’s statement about what would result if Scotland got to claim her own oil & gas revenues. Prof McCrone stated that it would result in Scotland going for, and getting, independence.

      He claimed, (correctly), that if Scotland became independent and retained the Pound Sterling as her currency and it was tied to the English Pound Sterling that the Scottish pound, being oil & gas based, would become so strong against the Pound English as to, (and I use the word he used), “embarrass”, the English economy.

      Now just take a look at the Norway economy and Norway has around the same population as Scotland and is an oil & gas backed economy. Norway’s currency is so strong that Norway has to keep buying Euros it does not need in order to stop the Norwegian currency getting too strong.

      That’s what McCrone told Westminster. That an independent Scottish economy using the pound would be so strong that Scotland would have to take measures to stop her economy overheating and an independent Scotland’s best way of preventing an overheated Scots currency would be to buy English pounds because as the Scots pound soared the English pound would sink.

      So Westminster governments, both Labour and Tory, lied about Scotland’s oil & gas revenues, stole them by claiming the revenues were UK revenues from, “Extra Regio Territory”, Marked the McCrone Report Top Secret and hit the report away for decades.

      Do you understand what McCrone was saying? He was telling Westminster that Scotland would not only be better off than the three country Kingdom of England but an healthy Scottish economy would result in the English Kingdom becoming a very poor set of countries. So instead of that they tore the heart out of Scotland by needlessly closing down Scottish industries and making parts of Scotland amongst the poorest areas in Europe.

    88. geeo says:

      Me: Hey, Cameron, what is your personal thoughts on an indy Scotlands currency options ?
      ………..

      Camerons response: “I’m Joe Soap in a flat, with zero social capital. Who wants to read my opinion, or yours for that matter?

      Are you trying to be obtuse or do you really think you know it all? Your coming across as a bit of a narrow-minded arsehole, do yourself a favour and don’t get me on your back”.
      …………

      Hmm…ok then..!!

      Deary me.

      And even better : “who wants to read my opinion”

      Yet you constantly spam every thread with pseudo babble.

      Not big on irony huh ?

      So, again: What is your view on post indy currency?

      Why will you not answer such a simple question ?

      Is it because someone you do not like, is asking ?

      Pretty sure there are reams of pseudo babble on that !!

    89. Robert Thomas says:

      I think the sample size for this poll is too small for the subject. I would like to see the results of a poll of at least 10 times this number, around 10,000 people, preferably.

      Then I would have more confidence that this better reflected ‘Public Opinion’ on the subject of Currency in an Independent Scotland.

      Personally I am in favour of a Scottish Currency from day one, so we are not tied to the Bank of Englands’ monetary policies.

      We will have the credit (and no debts) as we have the resources to easily cover any International Credit Loans!

    90. ronnie anderson says:

      Cameron B Brodie their mair like Frank Spencer withoot the berry

    91. Robert Peffers says:

      @RMF Brown says:25 April, 2019 at 2:58 pm:

      ” … George Orwell once said that you should never be afraid to criticise your own side.”

      Indeed – but George Orwell was a fairly intelligent person but apparently thought others were just as intelligent and would have good and logical reasons for their criticisms.

      From most of the FM/SG/SNP critics here I see little by way of reasoned logic behind their constant Drip! Drip! Drip! of poison against the FN/SG/SNP.

      So which is it? Are you false flag Nationalists or just stupid?

      I’ll put that another way. Can you put into logical words your criticisms or even provide cites to prove your points?

    92. CameronB Brodie says:

      geeo
      It’s pretty obvious you haven’t checked out any of my links and, and availed yourself of the benefits offered by a scientific approach to social emancipation. My frame of reference is a BSC in Town and Country Planning and stuff. What’s yours and why do you feel the knowledge I’m attempting to share is worthless?

    93. North chiel says:

      Certainly no “ expert” , however currency is a means of exchange. If likened to a business then our “ trading account” could be likened to what we buy & sell as a country ( import/ export ) and whether we make a profit or loss ( trade surplus or deficit) . However much more important is the “ Balance sheet” ( assets and liabilities) . As I see it Scotland’s principal assets include our land , seas, our people and the “ resources” contained Therein ie our produce( food , forestry , natural environment etc. ).Our energy ie truly massive oil&gas resources , wind & wave, hydro power etc. and our people ( in the past a lucrative import for other countries and a drain on our own Human Resources) , thankfully recently being compensated for by EU immigration redressing this decades long imbalance.
      In summary , we truly are in every sense of the word an “ asset rich” country. Our principal liability at present is the “ millstone” of a debt ridden morally and literally bankrupt Westminster establishment wholly dependent on continuing to exploit our people and resources to maintain their perceived status in this world at our expense. Perhaps, as someone else posted we should take a very close look at our near neighbours Norway and collaborate with them with regards to “ currency issues” and how they have managed their economy with similarities , to ourselves ( geographic, population, natural and Human Resources etc ) ??

    94. Thepnr says:

      I think most will enjoy this little video. Very little has changed in almost 50 years it seems. An old moaning bastard is still an old moaning bastard LOL.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rOzF3QpJcw

    95. Clootie says:

      What will happen to the Pound when Scotland moves on. That will be the interesting impact.

    96. ronnie anderson says:

      Thepnr Times have moved on from their days , we even hiv ah verity of cereals fur breakfast no chist Snap Krackle n Pop

    97. robbo says:

      Well I remember the 1971 carry on like most on here.
      I’m still reeling fae one day getting 12(yes twelve) penny carmels and next day getting 5(YES FIVE) penny carmels for my same bloody shilling.
      No matter what happens we’ll probably be done.

      I was traumatised as a wee boy then I tell you and ran greeting back tae ma mam cos I thot the shop keeper dun me. Well the auld git had dun me cos he didn’t buy them at the new price did he, when he bought them weeks before!

      Whatever happens we’ll be screwed by the banks as usual.

    98. frogesque says:

      O/t

      As a matter of interest, has Nicola formally written to Theresa to request/demand an S 30 and, if so, has a formal written reply been issued denying it?

      Asking for a friend.

    99. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dunbar’s Ghost says: 25 April, 2019 at 3:03 pm:

      ” … One thing is clear, the majorty of those polled apparently have little grasp of the role a currency plays in a nation’s economy (as opposed to it’s role in their pockets).”

      Oh! Right! And presumably you do?

      ” … “Then there is, of course, the central question of what this would condemn Scotland to in the first decade of independence. We’d be stuck with the UK’s tax code, the UK’s banking regulation, the UK’s monetary policies and presumably we’d need to adapt our regulatory framework to match Britain’s after it leaves the EU.”

      Nope! Sorry but no prize this time. Let’s examine that bit above:-

      ” … We’d be stuck with the UK’s Tax Code”

      Err! No! The United Kingdom will have just split up and thus no longer be in existence. The United Kingdom is a bipartite union of Kingdoms so when they are no longer in union there can be no United Kingdom. The Status Quo Ante is a return to two independent kingdoms. The same two that united in 1706/7. That is the Kingdom of Scotland and the three country Kingdom of England.

      ” … the UK’s banking regulation”

      Err! No! First there can be no United Kingdom Banking regulations as the UK will have just split up. Not to mention that as the last legally elected Parliament of England sat and put itself into permanent recess on 30 April 1707 and there has been no legally elected Parliament of England ever since.

      Westminster from 1 May 1707 has legally been elected as the United Kingdom Parliament not the parliament of the three country Kingdom of England and on the United Kingdom splitting up there is no legal parliament of England.

      Not to mention that the Bank of England has never in its history ever belonged to the Kingdom of England. It began as a subscription scheme to bail out the Crown/Parliament of The Kingdom of England but then got a royal warrant as a private bank called, “The Guvnor & Company of the Bank of England”, (So called because the English Crown/Parliament banked with it0. It remained a private company until, in 1946, it was nationalise, not by the non-existent parliament of England but by the Parliament of the bipartite United Kingdom. It is thus partly owned by the Kingdom of Scotland.

      I’ll give you a cite for all that:-

      https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/who-owns-the-bank-of-england

      So there you go. Upon the union ending there will be no form of United Kingdom or rUK and as Westminster is the United Kingdom Parliament it end instantly. However, The Kingdom of England’s ignoring of the Kingdom of Scotland’s legal place in the union will return to bite their nether regions as there is no legal parliament of England and if there was it would not be the United Kingdom Parliament. On the other hand the old Scottish parliament was prorogued and then reconvened as Holyrood.

      Now do you see why jumping to wrong conclusions, or absorbing the Establishments propaganda has very much misled most Scots and all Englanders. BTW: As the Queen of England is legally sovereign in England she becomes in charge – not Westminster and, believe it or not, Scotland even owns part of the Houses of Parliament. The old parliament burned to the ground and was designed and purpose built – using United Kingdom funding. Not only that but Scotland owns part of the entire Whitehall Civil Service and many other things like, for example DVLA in Swansea.

    100. Golfnut says:

      Why is everybody going round in circles arguing about currency, it doesn’t matter what currency we use, other than we already have a currency, the Scottish Pound, which is familiar and provides some sort of assurance to us older bodies.
      You miss the real point of Nicola’s statement regarding currency and debt repayment. A warning, a challenge, a threat, that if westminster negotiates with Scotland the way they have with the EU, she will cut them loose. Leverage is all important in negotiations, and Scotland is blessed with a lot of leverage.

    101. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Whatever happens we’ll be screwed by the banks as usual.”

      That suggests we fail to do what is needed to run a more equitable society. Like a written constitution and proper financial oversight (see Gordon Brown and the 2008 banking crash).

      When optimism is hard, try this
      https://positivepsychlopedia.com/year-of-happy/optimism-is-hard/

    102. Scottish Steve says:

      My personal preference is to use the UK pound until we can set up our own currency. That’s what Ireland did before they joined the euro. I am pro-EU but I’m not overly keen on the euro. I dislike the Bank of England deciding Scotland’s fiscal policy and I’d equally dislike the European Central Bank doing it.

      But the currency thing matters little to voters. So long as they have legal tender to spend on goods and services, I doubt most people don’t actually care what currency we use.

    103. robertknight says:

      @Robert Peffers

      It matters not one jot Robert whether or not I read and/or understood McCrone. I voted Yes, and it had nothing to do with McCrone.

      What you’ve failed to take from my previous post is that unless you already are ‘Yes’ and visit all the informative Indy websites and read the National, you’ll likely to be fed a Yoon version of the ‘truth’ and draw your conclusions, rightly or more often wrongly, from Yoon sources.

      Currency was a gift to Darling, Better Together, etc. as their Yoon MSM pals set the tone of the narrative of “we’re not sharing Sterling” and the argument that said that they were wrong never saw the light of day.

      Even a certain BBC News hack who Mr Salmond had a disagreement with regarding answered questions was supposedly surprised at the negative spin which was applied to Carney’s remarks on the subject. Carney didn’t overly clarify the issue IMHO, but he who pays the Piper…

      Many people who were soft No’s were likely convinced to vote No by the argument used against sharing Sterling, because the counter argument just wasn’t made effectively thanks in part to the Yoon MSM keeping it out the news and making the argument appear one-sided.

      Next time the counter argument for whatever the plan needs to be driven home and driven home far more effectively than in 2014.

    104. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I am so happytosee that many folk are beginning to understand that the currency question is mainly a distraction and a distortion.
      As long as a majority of people are aware that we are ecomomically self supporting they will be a happy with whatever currency we use.

      A movement to a Scottish currency should be a orderly process that folk are comfortable with.

    105. PacMan says:

      Due to the incompetence of Westminster in not stepping in, the banks are hastening the decline of physical cash by closing branches and not properly financing the ATM network. If something is not done, it is hard to see anything getting paid by coins in notes in a couple of years time.

      If this does happen and people have no longer any physical concept of money and only see it in terms of numbers on their PC or mobile phone, do they really care what symbol comes before them?

      In that scenario, a currency choice of an independent Scotland really becomes a non-issue.

    106. Craig P says:

      galamcennalath says:
      25 April, 2019 at 2:54 pm

      Other things matter more than currency. I suspect those who worry most about currency are well off NO voters. Still, we need to appeal to everyone.

      Sinky says:

      NHS: 41%
      NHS: 42%

      Healthcare, free to all, is quite rightly very important to most folks.

      This NHS finding is absolutely eye-popping. Brexit brings the spectre of new US trade deals – and guess what is the most lucrative market to American companies? Not chlorinated chicken, guess again… That’s right, privatised health care. And guess how many legislators in Westminster have links to private healthcare companies? A LOT.

      The link below is a few years out of date but details 73 MPs and 147 Lords who would benefit financially from privatising the NHS:

      http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.com/2012/02/nhs-privatisation-compilation-of.html

      I hadn’t realised before how important the NHS was to people. We need to make a *big* song and dance about this. About how vulnerable the NHS could be after Brexit if we remain in the UK.

    107. Wullie says:

      All this talk of currency. Important, not important?

      Well for the average punter the importance depends on who got the politicking over to them.

      Fear factor? Yes played correctly currency could be a big influencer. For that reason, and economics aside, the SNP position is sound.

      Let us decide after independence.

    108. Muscleguy says:

      The risks of keeping Sterling are continually ignored.

      1. No country with its own fiat currency an go bankrupt. Compare Iceland after the Crash with Greece, Italy and Portugal. Also see Argentina, serial loan defaulter after it started borrowing in US Dollars.

      2. Monetary policy at the moment takes pretty much NO account of Scotland’s needs and requirements. We know this by testimony of those who have been on the monetary policy committee. Post Independence it may even change to be deliberately disadvantageous to Scotland to try and drive us back into the Union. Either way we will have no influence.

      3. Many people in the know think another banking crisis is coming down the tracks, we do not want to be still in Sterlingisation when it hits as our monetary supply could dry up pretty much completely.

      4. IF we use Sterling post Independence then ScotGov gilts and debt will be denominated in it (unless they mint a balance sheet only Scotpound akin to the Ecu was the Euro). This will create repayment risk (see Argentina) once we have our own currency. The longer and more debt we accrue in sterling the bigger this problem will be.

      Pretty much all these issues were ignored in the Growth Commission report. I read the relevant sections looking for a risk analysis for sterlingisation and found there none. None.

      So either they didn’t do one, which would be a dereliction, or they did not release it.

      In getting conference delegates to vote on accepting the commission’s proposals in full the SNP are playing not with fire but with napalm.

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brexit threatens to undermine the fabric of Scotland’s civil society and make life harder for most. Scotland voted to avoid this and now we are being told it we won’t get a say in our future. That’s not a union of equals, that’s despotism.

      DECISION MAKING UNDER RISK & UNCERTAINTY
      Practitioners Round Table – Review and White Paper

      foresighttransitions.co.uk/secure_download/MTNmNzM0ZWZmMTdiMTYxYWZlZGNiZjIwYThjZTlkNjg6rHHD8SIkls7psAOdRpm6d05WRDhYanVSMnBKWHAvOUkzelVFR0tkSm5WL0w0MktmaDFQVzV3SnVpMm94YjFlSlk1K2ZBQ0Fva1ErdFVRT3J6S0c5SWRyMXF6MktjWWhIVHpXSDhDRTk4MHFTOU9ncjBxeUREUkFjM3ZMbkdoYlp4RVRCT0NFMm53bjB6bG4

    110. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Brexit. It appears extremely unlikely the Prime-minister consulted her chief science advisor before activating A50 and starting the process of full-English Brexit.

      Making decisions in the face of uncertainty: Understanding risk
      http://www.pmcsa.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/PMCSA-Risk-Series-Paper-1_final_2.pdf

    111. Ken Clark says:

      I despaired at the nonsense spouted by the NO side during the 2014 referendum, and will no doubt do so again during the next one.

      While channel hopping this morning I chanced upon Jeremy Vine during his paper review. The Herald featured with that, (smirk) Nicola Sturgeon. Jeremy stated that the currency question killed the YES campaign last time. No argument. Fact!

      The horrendous Carol Malone chipped in with falling support for independence. Fact! Fellow panellist, author Anthony Horowitz, not to be outdone, went with the sinking value of oil, ending with a chorus of, Catalonia, separatists and a final (everyone nod sagely) rendition of Theresa May won’t let them have a referendum.

      Yasmin Alibhai-Brown sensibly sat quietly, arms crossed, during all this.

      Even, Storm, Vine’s Scottish fellow presenter, who once described Nicola Sturgeon as a cross between Susan Boyle and Mary doll from Rab C Nesbitt, as an aid to the English audience you understand, looked sheepish.

      The sooner we start the next campaign the better, but like the rev, we’re going to need lots of dental repair afterwards due to chronic levels of teeth grinding.

    112. Iain mhor says:

      Haha ‘will not affect the pound in my pocket… Ah ken, ah huvny got a pound in ma pocket’

      Anyway, do the respondents mean the actual wee ‘silver’ and ‘brass’ coins?
      Because there’s not that many Bank of England pounds floating about locally. So Scottish notes are already in use and called pounds. Is the affection for the wee coins, or for the word ‘Pound’ or do they have an inherent insight into high finance I wonder?

      I had a wee wander down the Main recently and daunered by the European Central Bank. There’s not a Euro in it, not a note, not a cent, bar what the workies have on their hip.
      The money doesn’t physically exist.
      It’s backed mostly by about 500tonne of gold, that doesn’t exist at Frankfurt either. It’s dotted about the world.

      So, either the respondents aren’t bothered about the physical coins and they just like the word pound (a Euro coin etc is next to the same as a pound coin as makes no difference – ye can stick it in yer Tesco trolley) or they understand about the nature of fiat currency and its relative value.

      Yeah… they just like the word ‘Pound’ don’t they?

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for being so busy but folk tend to fear the unknown. Stuff is only unknown until it is discovered by the knowledge seeker. The knowledge seeker become the knowledgeable individual and is no longer afraid. This is the path of social transcendence.

    114. Rick H Johnston says:

      I wonder if the figures would be different if you had substituted Scottish pound instead of Scottish currency?
      Wording is important in polling and can skew results.
      However these numbers give us serious food for thought

    115. Liz g says:

      Muscleguy @ 8.54
      Is there not already a Scots balance sheet?

    116. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Sometimes currency is a talking point when I’m visiting family and friends on the archipelago, there are still some doubters I’m afraid..!?

      Anyway, I find the best way to start the learning curve for them is to ask them to open up their wallets and purses and look at the notes inside.

      They’re mostly/all Scottish – You’re already using the Scottish pound! It’s in your pocket.

      There’s about 4bn quid of them and very one is backed up with a pound of OUR money deposited at the BoE.

      When Indy come we’ll still probably be using the same notes but the 4bn quid of OUR money will be nicely tucked away in the new Scot. Central Bank and any English notes in the same SCB reserves.

      That usually gets them thinking and receptive for other indy topics.

    117. Terry callachan says:

      Robin Macalpine and commonweal have written a very interesting report on why Scotland should use its own currency from the first day of independence ,points that stood out for me are that many countries using their own currency from day one of independence had more control over their economy and strengthened their economy quicker than those using another countries currency.

      It was also said that if Scotland continues to use the English pound after Scottish independence it would be handing control of interest rates inflation and other important factors to the bank of England and the “city” of London stock exchange which would force the continued blight of austerity and inflated house prices.

      Personally I think currency is very important and although I liked the common seal report I can’t say that I understand all the possibilities .
      If I had to decide I would opt for our own Scottish currency from day one we used to have a stock exchange in Glasgow til thatcher closed it I would love to see it reopen.

    118. Glamaig says:

      Using our own currency from day one sounds like a recipe for capital flight. Surely better to transition in stages

      pound Sterling
      Scottish pound pegged 1:1 to Sterling
      then pegged to a basket of currencies
      finally floating

      timescale chosen as appropriate at the time

      But what do I know, Im happy to leave it to folk who know about this stuff, and I dont care what the currency is as long as theres no financial disaster. Although, I do like the nice designs on our notes, Im shallow like that.

    119. geeo says:

      @the pseudo babble spammer.

      Your links are completely irrelevent other than as an exercise in pseudo babble.

      I do not need your links, as i am an educated person with a functioning brain, who can think and speak for myself.

      If i am unsure of something, i research it, and i always look at all sides of the argument/topic, and do so with an open mind, and formulate my OWN FUCKING OPINION based on available data for any given subject.

      Kinda how most people do it.

      The babbling theorists are just one more OPINION. No more valid than others, all they do is compete for acceptance amongst each other.

      Meanwhile, the ‘chattering classes’ do not give 2 fucks about pseudo babbling theorists, most go through their entire life having never heard of any of them.

      I notice you dodged the very simple question/polite request for your personal view on Post Indy Currency in Scotland.

      Has your team of babbling theorists not told you what to say yet, or do you just not understand the question ?

      You are a self proclaimed egotist, and certainly not as clever as you think you are.

      A man without an opinion of his own, has declined the right to criticise others for theirs.

      Know who said that, Cameron ?

    120. CameronB Brodie says:

      Muscleguy
      Re. the Growth Commission Report. I just had a quick look at it, though not in sufficiently detailed to comment critically on methodology or assumptions used. I’m way too out of touch to attempt that and a good bit of it is above my pay-grade. The team looked sound though and this bit jumped out.

      Scotland – the new case for optimism
      A strategy for inter-generational economic renaissance
      3 SUMMARY
      Key Points by Chapter: Part A
      Brexit – Two Futures

      3.32 If the gap between Scotland’s real per capita income and the median of the small advanced economy group was closed, income per head would be 14 per cent higher. Closing the gap between Scotland and the best performers would increase incomes by half. Closing this gap would mean, in today’s values, an additional £22 billion in additional GDP and a potential additional £9 billion in tax revenues.

      3.33 The decision of the UK to leave the European Union will fundamentally change Scotland’s economic future. Brexit will almost certainly widen, not narrow, the gap between Scotland and comparator countries.

      3.34 The UK Treasury says Brexit will make the UK “permanently poorer”. This is not a controversial claim. There is a widespread consensus among economists, with few exceptions, that leaving the EU will damage UK economic growth, productivity and job creation.

      3.35 The Fraser of Allander Institute estimate a potential Brexit impact of the loss of between 30,000 and 80,000 jobs, the loss of between £3 billion and £8 billion in GDP and a real wages cut of £2,000, depending on the model that succeeds Brexit negotiations.

      3.36 Scottish Government modelling shows an adverse impact on trade, productivity, population and foreign direct investment. And LSE’s Programme of Brexit research suggests Scotland (as well as Wales and Northern Ireland) are already being disproportionately hit by the impact of the Brexit vote.

      3.37 The already huge difference in economic performance between London and the South- East of England and other parts of the UK is therefore likely to increase.

      3.38 This means it is essential to stimulate an inclusive, national debate on Scotland’s economic future to find out whether a different, better path is possible.

      3.39 Scotland’s resources and talent, combined with good decision-making and the ability to tailor policy to our needs, can lead to improved economic performance and avoidance of the low growth future in a UK outside the EU. The growth aspirations here are structured over three time-horizons: (i) First 10 years: catching up with the small advanced economies average growth rate (currently 2.5%) (ii) Years 10 to 25: closing the GDP per capita gap with the small advanced economies (with period of 3.5% growth) (iii) maintaining a GDP per capita position in line with the top half of the small advanced economies group.

      3.40 The long-term nature of the strategy should not diminish its urgency. It must begin now.

      https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5afc0bbbf79392ced8b73dbf/t/5b06e82670a6ad631bc5743f/1527179310115/SGC+Summary+Report.pdf

    121. schrodingers cat says:

      @geeo

      I notice you dodged the very simple question/polite request for your personal view on Post Indy Currency in Scotland.

      ———–

      do you have change of a zonk?

    122. Thepnr says:

      This is all that matters to most people, greed is everything.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    123. Footsoldier says:

      If Scotland becomes independent, how will my current savings in England be protected if an English financial institution goes bust?

    124. CameronB Brodie says:

      geeo
      I’m obviously not directing my material you, as you appear to know it all and a full cup can not be filled any further. I haven’t expressed an opinion on Scotland’s currency, as that is not my expertise. Subsequently, I focused on my knowledge base and on how to deal with risk and uncertainty. This is practical knowledge which you appear to consider pseudo babble. You sir, are an idiot.

    125. Ghillie says:

      Geeo! That’s really mean and quite unnecessary.

      You don’t speak for me.

      I enjoy Cameron B Brodie’s comments and links.

      I’ve learned ALOT whenever I have followed through on a whole article and been lead down many an interesting path that I would not have come across on my own.

      Wingers post in so many different ways and this is Cameron’s way.

      You have your talents in calling out trolls which I do appreciate!

      Please ease off on my friend. I like Cameron B and how he comments. I’ve yet to meet you but perhaps some day we will.

      Peace and Love (to quote our much loved Smallaxe)

    126. ScottieDog says:

      @Terry Callachan
      I agree. I think there is a general misconception that using another currency until you are ready has a neutral effect. The effect can be detrimental. It’s a bit like jumping into quick sand until you’re ready to step back on to solid ground.

      Borrowing in a foreign currency is very different to ‘borrowing’ in your own currency. Reason I say that is that there is absolutely no reason for countries to issue bonds in their own currency. That is a throwback to the gold standard. As we saw with QE the Bank of England simply bought up one quarter of U.K. debt, so that in itself should be reason enough to realise that ‘issuing’ debt in your own currency is really just an accounting slight of hand.

      U.K., US, Japanese, Australian bonds pay very little (I think Japanese are still negative) but they are always fully subscribed because they are a safe haven. Investors know that they will always get a return as the above countries are ‘currency issuers’. They set whatever interest rate they like.

      ‘Currency users’ – like Eurozone countries are a different ballgame, although the ECB did at one point guarantee all euro debt (except poor Greece).
      Scottish sterling bonds would probably have to have a higher premium due to increased risk of default (we wouldn’t have our own central bank to guarantee payment of interest).

      Then there’s bank deposits which are guaranteed by the currency issuer (U.K.). We wouldn’t be able to provide such guarantees.

      Pegging a new currency to sterling seems attractive but the catch with that is, well it’s a bit like a gold standard where you guarantee convertibility into a quantity of gold, except we would be guaranteeing convertibility into a set amount of sterling. This forces the Scottish central bank to accrue sterling reserves which has a limiting effect on the economy. We have to keep step with sterling issuance. We issue too many Scot pounds and that puts a strain on the peg and we have to increase holdings of sterling. Speculators love pegged currency!

      We can defend against speculators by using capital controls but the EU (as a neoliberal institution) demands free movement of capital. That’s why I prefer an Icelandic type arrangement life EFTA. Iceland did impose capital controls, as they should, to defend their currency after 2008.

      Yes I understand the political strategy behind using sterling and the opinion polls certainly prove that, but it also proves that folk are horrendously in the dark as far as money is concerned. That’s why I’d have the framework ready to go on day 1 and give people the option to buy scot£. We don’t have to force people to convert although people would have to if the government levied taxes in the new currency. That would also allow scotgov to gradually accrue sterling reserves.

      Speculators can only speculate when they have the currency and there would be very little of it to start with.

    127. Contrary says:

      They should be teaching basic economics in schools, it’s madness that the general population, and most politicians, actually include many economists in that, don’t know how a country’s economy works. I know only a sketch of what it’s about after quite a bit of reading and watching videos (but then, I lose interest in financial matters very quickly).

      When Nixon dumped the gold standard – that is, the value of the dollar was no longer pegged to stores of gold – he developed fiat currency and for a start it was pegged to labour (workers, not the party) so everything was hunky dory when there was high employment, but there was issues with that if you run a capitalist system. So he made a deal with Saudi Arabia that they’d only deal in oil in US dollars – the petrodollar – and that’s how it has been since. The value of the US dollar is determined by oil, and the Saudis. And everyone else measures their currency value in some ways to this. So, oil companies have inordinate power (politically). Countries, for instance Iran, that try and buy and sell oil in the Euro will get sanctions (this would make the Euro the ‘gold standard’ if everyone started using it, too much competition for the US dollar there). I think Brexit is to try and destabilise the EU to prevent this happening, in fact.

      So most countries use a fiat currency, and way back in the 1930s there was a description of how it was best the use this in an economy – but economists have throughout the ages rejected all ideas that are effectively modern monetary theory (MMT) – which isn’t a theory really, it’s what happens, but it is done badly (when you read up on the principle you realise how truly damaging to the economy austerity is – you will indeed just get more and more into debt, as has been happening in the UK).

      So, to Scotland – if you want to run an economy, you need fiscal autonomy, which isn’t just your own currency, you need to run your own bank and taxes and stuff (not sure about markets, I think that’s just for foreign trade). The restrictions placed on the economy by using a different country’s money, or by pegging the value of your own to it (madness! We have oil! ,,, although, see the above re the petrodollar, and let’s not go there), will keep us poor and make development less worthwhile – if the politicians are serious about a Green New Deal, we need independence and fiscal autonomy. Investments need to be made that will result in taxes being paid and a better standard of living for everyone, and if this goes towards green things maybe the world won’t crash and burn (though that’s looking less likely as the politicians prevaricate).

      Craig Dalzell is articulate on these matters and I agree with him to a certain extent. We don’t HAVE to have our own currency, it is just by far the BEST option. It’s easily done as well by the sounds of it, and could be set up along with other institutions during the negotiating, transition, period. Half measures are just going to prolong the pain.

    128. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I’ve got a comment with a few links (Macrone, Jim Rogers, Stolen Seas) but in it disappeared into the ether (maybe moderation) hopefully it’ll show up.

      Basically remember currency (whatever it is called GBP £, USD $, Euro €) has to have something tangible backing the paper notes, plastic card or metal coins etc.

      The UK has >£2 Trillion of debt growing at a rate of £5,170 per second with very little to back it up.

      Worth keeping in mind whenever Unionists (aka British Nationalists) go on about what currency we’d use/have to use.

      Energy is real

      Oil, Gas, Electricity from renewables is real.

      Scotland not only has a future, Scotland is the future of European Energy Security (and all the revenue that will put into a Scottish Exchequer).

      The only viable country in the so-called UK.

    129. Golfnut says:

      Terrance Callahan.

      Yes, but what exactly is meant by day one. Day one being two years from the vote or some other date.

      To my mind , executive power returns to the Scottish Parliament the day after the vote, assuming its Yes, but not exactly a practical day to start a new currency. Negotiations will be about the transfer of assets, trade, utilities, oil and gas and of course currency. In that period, we will use the Scots pound. The Finance market during this period will be a good indicator of currency value, and indeed may determine whether its possible to have any kind of currency union.

    130. ScottieDog says:

      @Footsoldier
      “f Scotland becomes independent, how will my current savings in England be protected if an English financial institution goes bust?”

      Ask andrew Wilson. He’s a banker.
      He prob won’t answer and he doesn’t seem to want to debate.

    131. Phil says:

      Re: Abulhaq @ 25 April, 2019 at 2:21 pm
      and CBB: who has no theories!

      The Euro is NOT a national currency, controlled by National Central Bank within the purview of one National Government.

      A national currency controlled by a local, national central bank is able to be regulated by the local government to the best effect for the local economy.

      That was not true of the EU smaller economies who use the Euro and who could not control their economic positions viz-a-viz other international economies.

      In the 2007-8 banking crisis the UK which does control its central bank was able to find at least £435Bn to help its banks (for better or worse). The UK did not have to ask anyone for permission. This is one major advantage of a nationally controlled currency.

      There are named theories which describe the action Gordon Brown took in that case. These theories quickly become too convoluted for doorstep explanations during a campaign, (and for my feeble brain), but are oft foreshortened to MMT.

    132. ScottieDog says:

      @Contrary
      Get along to one of these events in May. All about currency choices for independent Scotland.

      https://www.eicc.co.uk/whats-on/modern-monetary-theory-organised-by-mmt-scotland/

      https://www.glasgowlife.org.uk/event/1/modern-monetary-theory-organised-by-mmt-scotland

      P.s there are concessions available for both events.

    133. Contrary says:

      @ScottieDog
      Thank you for the links – I’m not very good at turning up to events, but I’ll take a look!

    134. Fireproofjim says:

      Dave McEwan Hill 08.07

      ‘A movement to Scottish currency should be an orderly process which people are happy with”
      Absolutely right, and, judging by last time, that means retaining the existing pound for the immediate post-independence period and changing to a new currency when the time is right.
      This means the fearties who think they will lose their pensions will have something less to worry about..

    135. Cubby says:

      Robert Peffers@7.47pm

      Good to see you posting again.

    136. geeo says:

      Ghillie @10.24pm.

      I never claimed to speak for you.

      As for me being mean…i presume you are aware of the personal abuse directed towards me by Cameron ?

      I accused Cameron of POSTING pseudo babble, NOT talking Pseudo babble.

      And for good reason.

      He never posts a personal opinion, and his latest outbursts are because i had the temerity to ask his opinion on a topic, and asked POLITELY i hasten to ask.

      Anyone is free to ask my opinion on anything, and i shall give it and why.

      Kinda the whole point of this place, surely ?

      I am not the one who claims to be too intelligent for this forum, yet the self proclaimed genius, accuses me of being a “know it all”.

      Clearly irony flies right over his big brainy heed.

      But hey, as you say, peace and love.

    137. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ghillie
      Thanks for your interest and appreciation. This is sort of my first ‘reaching’ gig, so you have helped vindicated my approach. Hope I don’t get too cocky. 😉

      geeo
      Sorry for the insult but it really rips my knitting the way you dismiss science based educational practice aimed at fostering emancipatory potential.

      FOSTERING CRITICAL REFLECTION IN ADULTHOOD
      A Guide to Transformative and Emancipatory Learning
      ‘How Critical Reflection triggers Transformative Learning’

      https://www.ln.edu.hk/osl/conference2011/output/breakout/4.4%20%5Bref%5DHow%20Critical%20Reflection%20triggers%20Transformative%20Learning%20-%20Mezirow.pdf

    138. Brian says:

      Currency?…. they dinnae tak oor money noo so why wid that change efter Indy?

    139. CameronB Brodie says:

      ….This is sort of my first ‘teaching’ gig….doh!

    140. geeo says:

      “Sorry for the insult but…” is not an apology.

      Its condescending.

      Want to try again ?

    141. CameronB Brodie says:

      “I accused Cameron of POSTING pseudo babble….”

      Your understanding is that of a six year old in comparison to mine. Watch yourself.

    142. Phil says:

      ScottieDog says:
      25 April, 2019 at 10:33 pm

      @Footsoldier
      “If Scotland becomes independent, how will my current savings in England be protected if an English financial institution goes bust?”

      Ask andrew Wilson. He’s a banker.
      He prob won’t answer and he doesn’t seem to want to debate.

      Commonweal has written descriptively about this. I paraphrase:
      After the successful indy-vote a transition will be agreed which will have staged points which are known well in advance. Bank Day which will allow savings to be transferred into Scots banks. Later, Cash Day on which a new currency becomes operative. Etc. These points will allow individuals to decide when and how fast they want to shift their money. Our new government will doubtless warrant to honour existing safety mechanisms. It would be considered a sham government if it did not.

    143. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      This is the sort of stuff we should be putting about

      “The UK National Debt is just passing £2,000,000,000,000 with personal, bank and business debt more that doubling that figure. If Pounds were seconds that would be over 90 years. What currency will UK use if Sterling folds as is a really serious possibility?
      Scotland hopefully will be well away by then with its own debt free currency.”

      David McEwan Hill

      The UK National Debt is just passing £2,000,000,000,000 with personal, bank and business debt more that doubling that figure. If Pounds were seconds that would be about 90 years. What currency will UK use if Sterling folds as is a really serious possibility?
      Scotland hopefully will be well away by then with its own debt free currency.

      David McEwan Hill

    144. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Copied the previous post in twice. Sorry guys. Have sen that to several newspapers

    145. Confused says:

      glamaig at 10.06 gets it
      – thats basically it. you can pepper and salt it to your taste.
      – why is this shit so difficult for people? FFS
      theres other clever ideas to explore, but dont -ahem- confuse the hoi polloi

      THAT NIKLA SALMONDS GONTAY STEAL MA PENSION YA BASS
      THE OILS RUNNING OUT ANYWIY

    146. geeo says:

      Oh dear, lord high and mighty speaks down to someone on Wings yet again.

      Forgive me for not taking high and mighty lectures from someone who cannot answer a simple question about his personal opinion on Post Indy Scots currency.

      Comedy Gold.

      As for this :”watch yourself” …fecking howlin’ here..oh ma sides!!

    147. Cubby says:

      The main point about currency we should be making is that our oily Scot pound will soar in value.
      Forget all this your pound will retain its value after independence. It won’t it will soar. Doesn’t matter what we call it – it needs to be independent of the Euro or the English pound.

      The other part of the message should be:

      Stay in the Brexit UK and your UK pound will continue to devalue as it has been doing over recent years.

    148. CameronB Brodie says:

      One for fans of psychic knitting. 🙂

      If You Focus on Optimism, You Will Change Your Life
      Learning to Find the Good is Key to Your Success

      “Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual.” – Victor E. Frankl

      https://medium.com/the-mission/if-you-focus-on-optimism-you-will-change-your-life-85e03bf4c509

    149. auld highlander says:

      The UK national DEBT counter.

      http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

    150. CameronB Brodie says:

      geeo
      Are you trained to support the development of sustainable communities? Don’t try to paint me as a snob, simply for pointing out I have specialist knowledge you lack. You’re free to scroll past if expanding your understanding is not to your taste. Others appear to wish me to continue, so tough titty, you’re not knocking me of course.

    151. Marcia says:

      New poll commissioned by SIU and details in Herald – done by Survation.

      Westminster voting intention:

      SNP 41%
      Lab 24%
      Con 22%
      Lib Dems 8%
      Other 5%

    152. HandandShrimp says:

      Change is terrifying

      Especially if it is in a coinage you aren’t familiar with.

    153. Mungo Armstrong says:

      Seen “Unacknowledged” on Netflix yet?

      https://www.netflix.com/title/80171742?s=i

    154. Sinky says:

      SPOILER ALERT Just watch how Unionist press spin the Scotland In Union opinion poll which revealed that:

      57% want Indy Ref by 2021… that is within TWO years.

      With a further five per cent within five years.

      Only 37% (the hard No voters) don’t want another referendum.

      Also SNP has support of 41%, Labour 24% Tories 22% which would give the SNP another 16 seats at Westminster.

      Therefore, if no Section 30 forthcoming let’s make next Westminster first past the post general election a mandate for independence.

    155. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Watch yourself, Geeo. You don’t want his face on your back.

    156. Bobp says:

      Phil 11.01. “Bank day which will allow savings to be transferred to scots banks” . Can you imagine the mad rush in england with people trying to transfer their savings to Scotland? Westminster wouldnt allow it. The ruk economy would collapse overnight.

    157. geeo says:

      Comedy Gold from Brodie yet again.

      “Dont paint me as a snob, but i am betterer than you and cleverer…”

      Away ye go you silly wee boy.

      You know nothing about me, nor my education, nor my social status.

      You presume a fucking lot, based on fuck all actual knowledge.

      What do you think of Post Indy Scots Currency opions ?

      Answer: “ehhh…am brainier than you plebs”

      Actually hilarious, you should go on the comedy circuit.

      You are not smarter than me, you just THINK you are.

    158. Cactus says:

      Aweright Glasgow, aweright Scotland, how ye daein’ like?

      Ahm still in oor big city, baby

      Show me da money

    159. Footsoldier says:

      Phil @ 11.01pm Does this mean I will have to move all my savings in England to a Scottish financial institution and will they offer the same rate? This does not sound very attractive to soft No voters we are trying to convert and what about Isa’s?

    160. Cactus says:

      Ah feel ahn Abba Zaba song a comin’ on when aye get back HOME

      It could be ahn Abba Zaba honeymoon TJenny xx

      Hoagy Carmichael vs Captain Beefheart

      Wherz the birds like?

    161. cassandra says:

      @geeo

      You are wrong. You show yourself up on this site time and again. You are the internet equivalent of a pub drunk who bumps into people and accuses them of ‘spilling your pint’.

      You see slights and put downs because you have a poor understanding of the written word. You cannot distinguish between facts and opinions and cannot express yourself without aggression and insults.

      Everyone here is smarter than you.

    162. geeo says:

      @cassandra, yet here you are, insulting and getting involved in stuff which is fuck all to do with you huh ?

      Hilarious stuff, Brodie’s back up is a british nationalist nutcase..!!

      Late night comedy club show.

    163. Cactus says:

      Abba zaba zaba zaba zaba zaba zab…

      Said the chimpy to the monk

      Wur awe night long like

      Almost Friday

    164. CameronB Brodie says:

      This book points to where I’m coming from, which I hope you will agree is a bit specialist in nature. I’m not a snob.

      Handbook of Critical Psychology
      Social Work
      Oppression and resistance

      ….The concepts and practice of ‘social change’ and ‘problem solving in human relationships’, when placed under the conceptual lenses of empowerment, liberation, principles of human rights, and social justice, should distinguish social work from other professional disciplines. However, social work utilizes ‘theories of human behaviour’, for example, theories of psychology that clash with the imperative to promote the empowerment and liberation of people, and to adhere to principles of human rights and social justice.

      Taking up the notion of social work as an agent that ‘intervenes at the points where people interact with their environments’, and placing this with the history and origins of social work as a profession, raises a number of challenging questions, not least because these origins continue to have a strong influence on the constitution and function of contemporary social work. The heart of the issue is that it is precisely at, and in, the points where people interact with their environments that social injustice can be located.

      Thus, questions about the mode and purpose of social work interventions are pivotal if social work aims to be concerned with social justice. This chapter provides a critical analysis of the instruments used by social work, such as the theory and models of psychology (Ingleby 2006), and offers an alternative range of theoretical lenses, such as Black feminist theory, in response to the following questions:

      ….what is the degree of autonomy of our profession? What kind of a power does it exercise? What alliances does it entertain? Where does the knowledge that we develop truly come from and what aims does it accomplish? What kind of a world is sustained by the professional activities of social workers? Do we not automatically adopt a number of ways that function to control, to contain, to render us subservient to the logic of power relations established elsewhere, outside the discipline? What margin exists for developing knowledge and action of a different kind? (Chambon et al. 1999:266)

      https://toleratedindividuality.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/handbook-of-critical-psychology.pdf

    165. Liz g says:

      Footsoldier @ 11.44
      Why don’t you try going up to the Revs list of link’s to other bloggs and click on – The Common Green – and ask your questions there!
      Thats the guy who wrote the book ” How to Build a Country ” he also dose talks all round Scotland and has quite a good way of explaining the financial stuff.
      He might no answer right away but he’s the one likely to be of most help to ye!

    166. Cactus says:

      Glasgow’s Merchant City is pure buzzin’ baby

      Aye can see you haha

      People be PLAYing

      Fuck the l’argent!

      Hey Liz mwah xx

    167. Petra says:

      Just popping in at my usual hour to contribute … some (many) great informative posts on here … thanks folks … and then what? Say no more. Off to read a good book.

    168. Cactus says:

      Hey Petra

      Just thought ah’d say hi

      How ye doin’ babe

      We good

      Ah’ve got 5% REMAINING

    169. HYUFD says:

      Survation

      Leave the UK 39% Remain in the UK 61%

      https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1121553219828813830?s=20

    170. Cubby says:

      HYUFD@1.01am

      The Tory from the south of England who thinks England owns Scotland. Probably thinks England still owns America Canada etc etc etc. Colonial mindset.

      The FUD just loves posting lies and misrepresenting all manner of things to prove that England is superior.

    171. Cubby says:

      Cassandra @11.50pm

      ” Everyone here is smarter than you”

      Sorry the HYUFD has just turned up so I have to disagree with that comment.

    172. HYUFD says:

      Cubby Gold standard pollster Survation gives No to independence a crushing lead amongst Scots polled, even bigger than it had in 2014. Facts hurt, I know

    173. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Gawd sayve ahh gwaishas kweeen, mmm hmm dum doobee kweeen, la la THE KIWEEEN. *sniff*

    174. iainmore says:

      I don’t much care for the worthless Brit Peso. It is a currency getting more worthless with each passing day and I can think of no good elfin reason to keep it. Indy Scotland needs its own currency. It is a weak Yoon mindset that wants to tie us to the Brit Peso. As long as that Yoon mindset exists we will never be free of London Rule. Rant over!

    175. iainmore says:

      HYUFD – You are clearly severely challenged when it comes to Opinion Polls amongst other things. Even a Tory Pollster wasn’t kissing Tory arses on that one or maybe it was. I suppose it beats fucking pigs at Oxford Uni.

    176. yesindyref2 says:

      I totally agree with Muscleguy, ScottieDog and Terry Callachan. We need to issue new debt in our own currency. Which is why we need it at least in some form, from day 1.

      BUT from other comments I also agree – don’t call it “Scottish Currency” because that’s scary, something new, something risky.

      Call it “Scottish Pound”, we have them already in our pocket. That’s familiar, not scary.

      Why let the unionists call them groats, twinkies, whatever other derisory term they use?

      The SNP, the SGC, Common Weal, everybody, need to come together and agree to call it the Scots Pound, or Scottish Pound – whichever.

      That’s step 0, before any discussion over currency. ALWAYS use that term, not Scottish Currency. We dictate the language of the discussion, not the unionists.

    177. Liz g says:

      Hey Cactus….. xxx

    178. ScotsCanuck says:

      Stu, as has been pointed out by many more learned individuals than myself, the Pound Sterling is as much OUR (Scotland’s) Pound, as England’s or Wales or N.I. and it’s an openly transferable currency (like the US$) and when Scotland becomes Independent should we wish to continue to use the Pound Sterling we have every right so to do. The whole Crapshoot with Osborne and “The Sermon on the Pound” during the IndyRef debate was to scare the crap out of elders who thought their Pension was going to disappearing before their eyes …. he was, is & always will be a shameless, lying, deceitful scumbag. We have to advance the fact that than when Ireland gained Independence, they continued to use the Pound for nearly ten years until the foundation of their own currency …. we can show and prove precedent.

    179. Cactus says:

      Hey Liz, that’s me, ahm just back HOME, did ah stint and then ah went walkabouties Glasgow… met some cool folks on the street, shared some smokes and then put some food in their bellies

      How’s the beat, are we alive?

      Rev is King

    180. Cactus says:

      Feel their pain:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_1LP3Z6pW4

      We can help

      Aye did

    181. Cactus says:

      Good morning HYUFD

      Good morning Brian

      How ye’s daeing… whit’s yer thoughts for Scotland

    182. Cactus says:

      Aye will say

      geeo is cool

      Cameron is cool

      We dream the same dreams… we want the same things

      Yee’s are both fucking excellent, dudes

      Keep doing whit yer daein’

      Our people are sleeping on the street, that is not fucking right

    183. Cactus says:

      Why are our people on the street?

      It doesn’t have to be that way

      Fuck!

    184. Cactus says:

      The sun is coming Scotland

      Can YOU make the difference former no voters…

      YOU will get ur chance to vote again this time

      Fuck Theresa May

      Ahhh, that feels better NOW

    185. Cactus says:

      Now is the time for Starship:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1b8AhIsSYQ

      Diggit

    186. Cactus says:

      Dropkick Murphys:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-64CaD8GXw

      The sound of

      MONEY!

    187. Cactus says:

      Nick Cave & co

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbGJgrBsgng

      NOW is the time to PUSH

    188. Cactus says:

      THIS was necessary… Nick:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnHoqHscTKE

      How do you feel right NOW Scotland?

    189. Cactus says:

      Hey Wings

      Ah dinnae ken where tae go frae here… but aye do

      Nae new tune is required… see above

      Intae my arms, I believe in LOVE… do YOU?

      Hit me

    190. Cactus says:

      Fuck the money

      Just love, LOVE

      What else is there that’s real?

    191. Cactus says:

      LOVE is timeless

      LOVE is real

      LOVE is

    192. Cactus says:

      Love is Scotland

    193. Cactus says:

      Love is the only thing that is real, WOW!!

    194. Cactus says:

      Cool, now is the time to LIFT up the love, ah’ve arrived

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQmmM_qwG4k

      Here we go…

    195. Cactus says:

      NOW is the TIME for an appropriation

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kcet4aPpQ

      You got some change?

    196. Cactus says:

      Was that surposed to be an appropriation or an appreciation?

      Ah was checking the thesaurus like tae be sure

      Still none the wiser…

      Mornin’ all

    197. Cactus says:

      Sticking with ‘the money’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17auRAksrmI

      Card…

    198. Ken500 says:

      Currency is just a name. It is how a country is run that count. Economic, social and foreign policies are what matter. Along with natural resources, equality etc.

      The banking crash. The UK is so badly managed by Westminster unionists it is unequal and in total debt. There is no democracy especially in the UK Union. Recognised internationally and breaking International Law.

      The whole Scottish economy is badly run by Westminster. Oil & Gas sector, fishing and farming etc. Over taxing the Oil sector when prices had fallen. Losing £Billions. Discarding dead fish for years depleting stock, taking £Millions of CAP payments intended for poorer Scottish farmers.

      The illegal wars, financial fraud, van king crash, tax evasion have cost Scotland dear. Paying for things Scotland does not need and not having the money to invest in the Scottish economy, Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident. Scotland loses £20Billion a year to Westmibster mismanagement.

      The Westminster unionist Gov is a total shambles. Since 1928 and before. Going from crisis to avoidable crisis. Brexit the latest unionist scandal. They are a bunch of imbeciles for whom Scotland did not vote. A complete lack of Democracy. Scotland’s resources and revenues illegally avdcsecretky taken to fund London S/E. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. An international scandal.

      Iraq War, Dunblane, Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years.

      Currency is just a name. The Irish Rep shadowed the £pound (punt) for years. It had amazing growth. The best in the world? It changed to the Euro in 1997.

      It doesn’t matter what currency Scotland uses it would be much better off Independent. Better managed. It’s only a name. Scottish revenues and resources would be put to better use in Scotland. The Barnett Formula was improvised to secretly deprive Scotland of revenues. Not supported in Scotland, That is what it did.

      For centuries Scotland has been overtaxed to pay for Westminster’s illegal wars.

      Edward the 1. Fought off. The illegally imposed Act of Union. Reneged upon as soon as it was signed. Against the majority in Scotland’s will. The Jacobite uprisings 1715/45 against Westminster rule. The illegal Iraqi war. Scotland has always been overtaxed to pay for Westminster appalling decisions. Austerity etc. Tottally unnecessary. The high inequality. The unfairness and lack of cohesion. In the UK. The Brexit scandal. All Westminster’s appalling decision. Leaving people in misery. The list is endless. The illegal Balfour Agreement, the illegal Partition of Ireland., the Suez crisis, the dumping of nuclear weapons in Scotland. Banished from 40 mins from London in 1992 but kept 30 mins from Glasgow.

      The list of Westminster atrocities and mismanagement is endless. The Westminster unionist criminal lies.

      Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. For a better world. Cut Westmibster power to defraud and cause trouble in the world. If Scotland gets better off so does the rest of the UK, especially the North. Do the world a favour,

    199. Cactus says:

      Hehe, won’t be long NOW till everbuddies up 🙂

      The question is…

      Who’s 1st?

    200. Robert Louis says:

      Yesindyref2

      I totally agree. That is perhaps the most important point. Stop talking about scots currency, talk about the Scots or scottish pound. Always.

      Indeed it should be the norm in all discussions on any aspect of the Scottish economy.

    201. Cactus says:

      Good morning Ken500, how are you?

      Cheers

    202. Cactus says:

      Good morning Robert Louis, how are you?

      Cheers

    203. Cactus says:

      Good morning Cactus, how are you hehe?

      Ahm fucking excellent!

      Thanks fur asking

      Cheers

    204. Cactus says:

      S’cool folks, ahm just fucking wae maself

      As you are and were

    205. Cactus says:

      Hey, Pilot did ah song aboot the money 2 like

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28UBh_YB0cU

      “Ah’ll give LOVE to who wants it”

    206. Robert Louis says:

      Sadly, in other news, I see the SNP are still indulging the section 30 nonsense from London.

      With each pointless beg for a section 30, and each refusal, it reinforces the perception both in London and Scotland that it is London which will decide if Scotland can be allowed to be independent.

      And like it or not, perception does matter. Seriously SNP leadership, sniff the freaking coffee and wake up, FFS.

    207. Ghillie says:

      Hey there cactus 🙂

      Today I especially like your post @ 5.37 am =)

      You’re like a lone ranger appearing out of nowhere just when the site needs a bit of Cactus.

      And you are right. Why ARE there people having to sleep rough in our fair country?

      It is NOT right.

      THAT HAS TO CHANGE.

      I do believe that Independent Scotland really will sort out so much bad stuff.

      And then make the good stuff even better 🙂

      Have a lovely day Cactus xxx

    208. North chiel says:

      Worth reading Scot goes pop ( James Kelly ) blog on Hyufd’s “ gold standard” pollster .

    209. Cactus says:

      Twas only ah matter of time before ah realised the reailty hehe

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETxmCCsMoD0

      Abba Zaba

    210. Cactus says:

      Hey Ghillie, have lovely day too you 2

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiZZ3hk8yu8

      Let it be

    211. Breeks says:

      The problem I have with currency, is that making the case for any currency proposal is challenging, there are contradictory philosophies, and proposers of one argument are often scathing about other arguments. Add too, that a significant portion of the population simply glaze over when you start discussing economics and currency.

      But from the BritNat perspective, it is the easiest thing in the world to scare the shit out of vulnerable people with hysterical and dishonest headlines that Independence will steal your money.

      The attacks on Scotland come in shorthand. Our defence is in small print. They lob in blunt and crude inflammatory lies, and we dissect the lies myopically, like forensic librarians, but the damage has already been done. The BritNats have frightened the people they wanted to frighten, and they also know the countermeasure to fear will not be disseminated by the BritNat BBC channels.

      If we are strong on a subject, we know the BritNat’s won’t touch the issue with a barge pole. Those stories will never gain traction in the hostile media. The BritNats however will attack us in areas where they perceive we are weak and can be wrong footed, – and they’re not at all bashful about fabricating lies to suit their agenda.

      What drives me to distraction is that we are fighting (ha! If you can call it that), for Independence as a footnote to 2014. We are dotting the “i’s” and crossing the “t’s” we missed in 2014, but we are still flat footed and pedestrian about tackling the BritNat’s misuse of broadcasting to promote groundless, false propaganda over measured objective commentary.

      Don’t misunderstand me either, yes, of course we need a robust plan for our Independent economy, but the point I am making is that having such robust plans, (look at the 500 page paper of 2014) is NOT going to be a progressive winning argument, because if it was, the BritNat media would make sure it was buried, ridiculed, or never saw the light of day. Look at the effectiveness of Rev’s Wee Blue Book. It got “our” information to the people and it also got around the UK media.

      We need to raise our game, get a whole lot more creative and inventive, and as I said over, and over, and over again in 2014, seize the initiative.

      I can’t lie, my first reaction to Nicola’s statement was not positive, but then I put it in context. My head is engaged with an Independence process which can be won before we are dragged out of Europe. There is only a Constitutional Emergency Ejector Seat which can deliver that. And that wasn’t the context Nicola was addressing.

      Nicola’s speech was our worst case scenario. Suppose we don’t succeed with a Constitutional Escape Plan, suppose we don’t succeed escaping from Brexit, suppose we cannot get a YES majority, or even an SNP mandate for anything, suppose too we don’t do well in the EU Elections, or we don’t get to take part… the plans are laid for an apolitical forum in the People’s Assembly, and a shot at an IndyRef in the Last Chance Saloon in 2019/2020. We are prepared for the worst.

      And yes, another wee gold star for Nicola, the Citizens Assembly does qualify as a positive initiative too… but it shouldn’t be taken as Indy winning flagship policy. You gotta see it in a less demanding context.

      Nicola’s speech was not about winning Independence. Nicola’s speech was covering the exits.

      IF the UK Brexits early, we have a Constitutional “Get Out” to save ourselves, as Ian Blackford repeatedly articulates.
      If the UK doesn’t Brexit but opts to Remain, we won’t be under the Brexit egg timer, and will have time for an orderly 2014-type IndyRef Campaign and Referendum.

      Brexiting early before October, or not Brexiting at all are the only options that matter. Everything else is chutney.

      If I was in Nicola’s shoes, I would never have done it this way, but we are where we are. I fear Nicola is too much of an enigma, and putting everything at risk the way people are left exasperated and frustrated. That isn’t healthy. I hope she has the sense to use Conference to throw us all good Constitutional Bone filled with juicy Sovereignty marrow. We need a lift.

    212. Cactus says:

      Good morning North chiel, how are you?

      Cheers

    213. Cactus says:

      Good morning and hey Breeks, how ye doing?

      Cheers

    214. Ken500 says:

      Scotland is brilliantly run by the SNP Scottish Gov. Amazing improvements. it could do even better Independent and be on average £20Billion better off.

    215. Ken500 says:

      Off topic, please.

    216. Ghillie says:

      Aw Cactus! That link to Pilot @ 7.11 am took me back!

      We used to ice skate on a Sunday afternoon at Murrayfield to Pilot’s ‘January’ 🙂 in ’74/’75!

      Happy days!

      Right. I’d better get out the road and let folk get on with the serious stuff =)

    217. Cactus says:

      Awwweee Ken, we’ve only just begun, why dae ye want me to go away like dude?

      Ah was gonnae ask you and Brian out for dinner, mah treat

      Are you red, white, pink or bubbly?

    218. Cactus says:

      Hey Ghillie aye used to ice skate at the Hamilton Ice Rink

      La Bamba was the go to song for Bauer

      It was always ah race to the end of the rink

      Lot’s of sweeties

    219. Cactus says:

      Apols Ken, that was my presumption frae yer request there Ken500

      We’re you talking to me?

      Cheers

    220. Cactus says:

      All good Ghillie xx

      The serious stuff can wait just a little bit longer

      Mibbies about midday

    221. Cactus says:

      Hey Ghillie, ah PLAYed that song yesterday on Indy Live Radio

      “We used to ice skate on a Sunday afternoon at Murrayfield to
      Pilot’s ‘January’ 🙂 in ’74/’75!”

      We were dancing to it 😉

    222. Dorothy Devine says:

      Morning Cactus! Do you ever sleep?

      How is the boat?

      I get a bit worried when a war of daft words breaks out on here.
      We all want an independent Scotland and must agree to disagree on how we get it sometimes.

      For myself I find some links invaluable and make me evaluate things which have never entered my head.

      Some links are there just to cheer me up and much appreciated too.

      Others fail to grab my attention so I abandon them and don’t feel the need to castigate the poster.

    223. Cactus says:

      Just because ABBA is LIVE and alive

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEjLoHdbVeE

      One for the ladies

    224. Cactus says:

      Morning Dorothy ahm excellent thx, how are you? Sleep… meh… sometimes, when needs must, yet to get to our boaty, should be heading there soon for the festival

      Everybuddy is cool here, ah wouldnae wish it any other way

      Energies

    225. Cactus says:

      Hey jj, can ah put in ah request for some uploads please…

      – The complete ABBA back catalogue
      – Foreigner
      – Guns n Roses
      – Boston
      – Extreme
      – Whitesnake
      – CCR
      – REO Speedwagon
      – Sepultura

      More tae follow…

    226. Cactus says:

      Good morning Dave, how ye doing?

      Cheers bud

    227. Cactus says:

      Here’s Frank’s take on it

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwOapKldMdM

      1968

    228. Cactus says:

      Humour me

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKs43dHBSWA

      THIS is us richt NOW

    229. Capella says:

      Just heard Nicola interviewed on R4. She did an excellent job of correcting the bowf education figures they wanted to pin on her. Worth a listen. Just caught the end of it by accident. R4 approx 8.20 to 8.30.

    230. Cactus says:

      Cool, ah’ve said what ah feel like needed tae be said

      Good morning Wingers, how ye doing?

      Cheers for NOW

    231. ScotsRenewables says:

      Robert Louis says:
      26 April, 2019 at 7:14 am
      Sadly, in other news, I see the SNP are still indulging the section 30 nonsense from London.

      I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that this is in fact a well designed pointy stick for poking the Tories and prompting their contemptuous rejections – which will boil the piss of a lot of otherwise lackadaisical soft Noes.

    232. ScotsRenewables says:

      Good morning Cactus, doing good…

    233. Footsoldier says:

      Having Scottish editions of UK/English newspapers is not helpful and a look at the “newspapers” on the website of BBC Scotland and BBC UK show why.

      The Telegraph leads in England on the Huawei leak but in Scotland “Just one in five backs Sturgeon on separation”.

      One thing for sure is no matter the problems in Westminster, the media will always make time to come together to do Scotland down and rubbish independence.

      We must not proceed as in 2014 but find a new sharper way and find a really good people motivating orator to back up the whole Yes campaign. I do not see anyone fitting that bill just yet and there are not really that many of them around.

    234. Effijy says:

      Sick to death of the Bastard Broadcasters of Corruption, Aka the BBC.
      Shortbread Radio news with full sprang for that Dick Leonard rambling
      On about the number of Scots kids living in poverty and pining it on Nicola.

      On behalf of Nicola their propagandist advise of her reply, more could be done if independent.

      Wouldn’t a journalist, if the BBC could import one ask why Labour didn’t vote against the 10 years
      Of Austerity or why proportionally Labour controlled Wales has more kids in poverty?

      Maybe he could call his colleague, Dim Jim Murphy on why he thought food banks were a wonderful idea.

      Orwell’s 1984 terrified me and now the Westminster mafia has Scotland living in it.

      I’ve received an e-mail from Keith Brown, SNP, asking for funds to fight the EU elections.
      Not happy with everything going on but we Must show unity and support the party or Scotland,
      Morality and Truth will be dead to this Nation.

      £50 from this month’s pay going today.

    235. yesindyref2 says:

      @Breeks “The problem I have with currency, is that making the case for any currency proposal is challenging, there are contradictory philosophies, and proposers of one argument are often scathing about other arguments

      Exactly. Which means BOTH appear bad to the undecided or NOes.

      On the other hand my idea of running both sterlingisation AND the Scots Pound at the same time for a few years should have both arguments working together and sounding good, not bad or scary. And appeal to everybody, the cautious and the bold.

      Did a few posts in the National about it, on the Hughes Hallett articles. Not being a member of the SNP, I WISH someone who is would take it to the SNP conference and get it talked about by some expert rather than me, an amateur.

      Hint hint …

      … hint

    236. McBoxheid says:

      Living in the eurozone means my war pension is subject to exchange rate fluctuations. The problem is, would my pension be devolved, or would the pensions agencies in England keep paying me? If the pound goes tits up, then my pension will drop. It has happened already. If iScotland starts paying it, then it all depends on how the economy of IScotland is doing and the strength of the pound, or whatever currency is eventually decided upon.

      Pensions in iScotland could rise to bring them into line with the average EU pensions, (a vote winning arguement by itself,) or things could be totally different.

      If England keeps control of pensions paid pre independence, then the economy and politics of England post indy will decide which way things will go. iScotland may or may not set up a fund to aid those on English pensions, if they drop too far behind those issued in iScotland

      Can anyone remember the huha over the Y2K predictions before 2000?

      Its a case of wait and see what happens, as nobody has a crystal ball. What is likely to happen, despite all predictions of doom and gloom, is there will be a settlement that suits everyone in the long term, as England’s moneymen (or women, hermaphrodites or transfolk, have I missed anyone?) is not going to allow it’s politicans to endanger the long term health of their economy. Follow the money, money talks more quietly, but with much more force than politicians of any stripe.

    237. Bill Hume says:

      Interesting. I don’t know if Nana has posted this link but it’s worth reading to see the ways the Britnats and Brexiteers can gerrymander votes.

      https://vip.politicsmeanspolitics.com/2019/04/26/the-uk-government-is-depriving-eu-citizens-of-their-voting-rights/?ct=t(SPECIAL_EDITION_NEWSLETTER)&mc_cid=4e0528569e&mc_eid=c83dd3c5cb

      Can you imagine the uproar if the Scottish government required all non Scots to do the same at the next independence referendum?

    238. Abulhaq says:

      The case for national independence is based first and last on gut instinct. Do you want to be treated like subordinates, provincials, regionals, second raters by a system that in principle does not give a damn, has historically exploited, depopulated, culturally occupied and expropriated your country and resents and resists your country having an alternative, distinctive and independent presence in the world?
      This is the fundamental question once, in one form or another, posed to the peoples of many now sovereign states.
      In the end it is never a ‘utilitarian’ issue. No former colony or dependency quit thralldom through the ministrations of lawyers, economists and panels of experts. They quit because the people were physically sickened by their menial status.
      This ‘fire in the belly’ is essential. Without it, all is words, words, words…..and procrastination.

    239. yesindyref2 says:

      @McBoxheid
      Can anyone remember the huha over the Y2K predictions before 2000?

      Yes, and because of all the huha, companies tool it seriously and realised there was a lot of work to do. Some did it themselves, some used tools, some contracted it out using the likes of tata, for their main systems. Some did a check and got rid of old systems, ones not used or barely used and that they could do without.

      With PCs a lot took the opportunity to get rid of old slow PCs and get new compliant ones, which gave a massive surge in sales over that time, and a bit of a drop after y2k.

    240. Robert Peffers says:

      O/T:

      On the subject of money perhaps Wingers might be interested in this video clip:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lybYmjKJvs

      Just another of Scotland’s lesser know about commodities and it’s free for anyone for a bit of effort.

    241. Capella says:

      Nicola Sturgeon interview on R4 from 8.10 this morning till approx. 8.30. maybe someone with the software could upload a clip. Meanwhile you can listen on the iplayer from 2hrs 10 mins in:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0004f5j

    242. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Did HYUFD get my post at 8.14 am?

      This is gold standard Survation poll on 2014 Scots.

    243. jfngw says:

      Maybe the SiU and its mouthpieces in Scotland, we could call them McStrummer, have changed tack. They now give the impression a poll is wanted in the distant future but support for independence is now so low it’s hardly worth having.

      Of course on the Beeb we have the ex-Murdoch hand puppet giving the same analysis, backed up by their wildly unionist Scotland correspondent.

    244. Albaman says:

      Capella @ 9:33.
      Thanks for the tip,
      Wes I listened to the recording, typical b.b.c. attack mode, of the type we’ve all seen, and heard before.
      It’s very obvious we are looked apron as a upstart nation, “how dare they” is their thinking.

    245. galamcennalath says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:

      gold standard Survation poll

      There should be another referendum in Scottish independence 61%

      There will be another referendum in the next five years 65%

      Scotland will become an independent country 63%

      Some very uplifting figures there.

      What it should do is shut-up BritNats who chant the ‘no demand’ mantra. It won’t silence them, of course. Truth is, they are terrified of IndyRef2. Long gone are the days of Wendy Alexander’s “bring it on”.

    246. frogesque says:

      @Robbert Peffers : 9.33

      Have a gold ring (14ct) made from gold panned from the Crom Alt at Tyndrum.

      Gold has a fair bit of silver in it hence 14ct. and quite pale. Smelted and metal bashed it myself and then Hallmarked at Edinburgh.

      Hersel’ has one made from Mennoch Water gold. About 20ct. and a beautiful rich gold colour.

      Made others from elsewhere in Scotland. We are indeed a very rich country

    247. Terry callachan says:

      Using your own currency gives your government more control over the economy of your country than using the currency of another country , that is simple common sense .
      Here are two more reports on why using your own currency is beneficial.
      I’m beginning to side with the introduction of a Scottish currency from day one of Scottish independence.

      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/14156/patrick-harvie-green-new-deal-impossible-under-snp-growth-commission-model

      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/14154/bill-austin-why-growth-commission-indy-plan-would-be-missed-opportunity-close-tax-gap

    248. Terry callachan says:

      Here is another reason why anything in Scotland that is under the control of the British establishment is bad for Scotland.
      Scottish enterprise is more British than Scottish .
      It is selling land it owns on behalf of the Scottish people, to a private company to build flamingo land which is very likely to be butlins style ,here is a link ,you can object using the link within.

      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/14150/nick-kempe-loch-lomond-land-sell-and-problem-public-land-use-scotland

    249. Breeks says:

      If Independence really is lagging so far behind in the polls and there’s no demand for Indy, then ask yourself why BritNats are so utterly terrified of holding another referendum, and why the BBC is continually on full propaganda mode.

      Simple truth is even they don’t trust their own bullshit, and they also doubt their capacity to pull off another electoral scam like they “won” in 2014. What they do know and see on a daily is BBC Indoctrination losing its potency and effectiveness, and they haven’t a clue what to do about it. Until they figure something out, all they can do is stall any Referendum which they cannot stage manage and steer towards the conclusion which the BritNat Establishment desires to see.

    250. A high % of NO citizens that might vote YES are quite happy with the pound sterling,

      modern monetary theory does not concern them,

      keep it simple,

      keep the pound,

      promise them blue passports and squint carrots and pounds shillings and pence and keep the Queen,

      simple things are more important to them than visionary theories,

      keep it simple and get the votes.

    251. Republicofscotland says:

      Very good point Rev, if those who are dithering on whether to vote yes to get us over the line want to keep the pound. Then we must keep the pound in order to win their vote.

      After we’ve achieved indy we can transition to a Scottish currency.

    252. Lenny Hartley says:

      yesindy2ref re Y2k i was heavily involved in our global upgrades, we were not going to bother but our auditors (Arthur Anderson) told us it had to be done. I spent (Sometimes with a team , sometimes on my own from March till October in 1999 travelling to 17 different countries in South America, Europe, Middle East, Far East and Australia with a little bit of R+R in Tahiti thrown in 🙂 I worked for a houston Texas based company, they were cluesless what they international facilities they had . I spent from Jan to Mar planning the trip, working out where we had offices , how many and type of computers, networks etc. For South American locations most of that data came from Houston. I had a team of four in Buenos Aires and I was due to go to a small office in Patagonia but due to issues in Buenos Aires I decided to send the most useless yank working for me, the bugger was big and they charged me two seats on the plane for him 🙂 Anyways when he arrived at the destination he phoned up and said I just seen another Company office onroute from the airport to the hotel, it aint on my list? I contacted Houston and relayed this information, they said he must be mistaken we have no knowledge etc etc, well I send him round to knock on the door and yup they were one of our operating divisions brance offices..Later that year , i was at our main office in Bolivia and had been told by Houston that one of our divisions had a small sales office with half a dozen folk, i gave my self two days to upgrade their systems, turned up to discovered over 100 folk worked in that office, they had taken over a local company the previous year ! So it was not only an opportunity to upgrade our Systems, software and Infrastruture , it allowed us to discover where some of our more remote locations were! Has to be said I was dealing with this particular operating division IT dept in Houston, im sure somebody knew where they had offices!

    253. Ken500 says:

      Any war pension in Scotland is paid by Scottish Refenue contributions. Ie from Scottish tax revenues raised in Scotland. Through the average £4Billion (over)paid by Scottish revenues. Ie Scotland pays too much for Defence because of Westminster illegal wars and total mismanagement. Blowing the world to bits and causing strife all over the place including in Britain.

      War pensions are paid from the Defence ministry bill. To which Scotland pays an average £4Billion contribution. Paying for war pensions in Scotland. That is how the Barnett Formula works. Taking too much from Scotland to pay for Westminster unionist chronic appalling mismanagement. Brexit, leaving the EU, will cost £Billions more in Defence. There will not be shared EU Defence costs keeping down the £Billions bill. A total catastrophe of increased Defence.

      The EU formed on mutual beneficial trade deals but primarily stop wars and starvation in Europe/world. In which it has been totally successful.

      Any war pension in Scotland along with all (UK) Gov commitments is (overly) paid by Scottish finances raised in Scotland.

      Westminster unionists are more interested in blowing the world to bits causing strife than looking after their own citizens, A complete democratic deficit.

      Scotland pays it’s own way and more because of Westminster unionist chronic mismanagement.

    254. Breeks says:


      Terry callachan says:
      26 April, 2019 at 10:07 am
      Here is another reason why anything in Scotland that is under the control of the British establishment is bad for Scotland.
      Scottish enterprise is more British than Scottish ….

      I wouldn’t spit on Scottish Enterprise if it was on fire. The sooner it’s a Quangone the better, and it’s staff should be subject of restrictive covenants to keep their grubby hands away from genuine Scottish enterprise for a five year minimum. Scotland doesn’t need to interface with European support through the lying ineffective rat bastards at Scottish Enterprise.

      But hey, that’s just my opinion.

    255. Ken500 says:

      @ Lenny Hartley has been everywhere, Man.

      (: < )

    256. Ken500 says:

      La Paz ?

    257. Ken500 says:

      Alex Salmond/SNP always said Scotland would keep the £pound for as long as a majority of people wanted it. Then change when the people decided through the Ballot Box. A totally reasonable position and a reasonable change over. The banking crisis was caused in London/East Midlands fraud property deals but Scotland had to pay for it. There was no bank crisis in Scotland. They had not taken out the loans but had to pay for it.

    258. jfngw says:

      Just received my EU polling card, important we have a good turnout to show WM what Scotland’s opinion is. A low turnout will be used as proof we are not that interested in the EU.

      I expect the media to try and ensure a low turnout, ‘it’s not worth it, only for a short period’. This would be the ideal outcome for Brexit parties, they will turn out.

      The only sensible vote for EU supporters is the SNP, the rest apart from the Greens (wasted vote) do not see Scotland’s future in the EU, this includes the LibDem’s and their pro-EU fakery (UK first and always).

    259. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Since Nana, the “Queen of the links” is on R&R at the moment, here’s something from Indycar to watch.

      Indycar Gordon Ross 25.4.19 – The morning after the independence statement.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KATvyb5uH_E

    260. Capella says:

      Alan Cochrane incandescent that Nicola’s R4 interview went well (despite the negative framing of Scottish voters being “faced with” indyref2).
      Too much is never enough for these people. Shows how well they understand the propaganda machine.

      https://twitter.com/DerekBateman2/status/1121682813139374080

    261. jfngw says:

      I see old Duncy wants to rig the indy question, he wants Remain/Leave as the choice. This is to put the EU referendum in peoples minds.

      My question is simpler. What parliament should have executive control over Scotland.

      Holyrood
      Westminster

    262. robbo says:

      Ken500 says:
      26 April, 2019 at 10:25 am
      Any war pension in Scotland is paid by Scottish Refenue contributions.

      What do you reckon would happen with x-service pensions Ken? Ie I have x-service and war pension currently. Its how I pay bills etc, if there’s an issue with them I’m fecked!

      That was a concern to me during Indy1 but I took the risk that honour would prevail and the covenant would not be broken- I still have a small fear on this.There’s never been a clear policy from Scottish government of what would happen and I would like it clarified otherwise I may have to move to England after a successful indyref2 which I dread LOL

    263. Robert Peffers says:

      @Terry callachan says: 26 April, 2019 at 10:02 am:

      ” … Using your own currency gives your government more control over the economy of your country than using the currency of another country , that is simple common sense .”

      Sure is, Terry. Which is why Scotland is using her own currency and has done so since 1 May 1707. Why are you so brainwashed that you cannot accept the truth? Here is the text of the relevant Article of The Treaty of Union:-

      “XVI. ‘That, from and after the Union, the Coin shall be of the same Standard and Value throughout the united Kingdom, as now in England, and a Mint shall be continued in Scotland, under the same Rules as the Mint in England, and the present Officers of the Mint continued, subject to such Regulations and Alterations as her Majesty, her Heirs or Successors, or the Parliament of Great-Britain, shall think fit.

      There is the proof that The Pound Sterling belongs equally to both the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England when they united on 1 May 1707. To put that another way the pound Sterling became THE UNITED KINGDOM currency on 1 May 1707. It thus belongs equally to both kingdoms and the United Kingdom is legally a two partner union of kingdoms. Westminster is legally NOT the parliament of England. Thus upon Scotland disuniting the United Kingdom there can no longer be a parliament of the United Kingdom. That means there can be no Union Parliament and there has been no parliament of the Kingdom of England since 30 April 1707.

      No UK parliament and no rUnited Kingdom. Just a return to the Status Quo Ante of two independent kingdoms but as England has no legally elected parliament it cannot legally claim the united Kingdom parliament as that is the united Kingdom parliament.

      ” … Here are two more reports on why using your own currency is beneficial.”

      You are totally missing the point, which is that the instant the Kingdom of Scotland disunites the United Kingdom BOTH former United Kingdom Partners have their own currency and it is the Pound Sterling. It no more belongs to England than it belongs to Scotland. Both kingdoms must decide if they wish to share their currency or not. i.e. Tie their Pound Sterling or not tie their pound sterling.

      It is not a unique situation. Both Canada & the USA use the Dollar as their currency but they do not tie their currency together. The notes and coins look different and each country controls its own currency independently and neither country has any problem with that.

      The kingdom with the problem in what will be the former United Kingdom is the Kingdom of England because when the union ends there is no legal Kingdom of England parliament. Westminster is not the English Parliament.

      … “I’m beginning to side with the introduction of a Scottish currency from day one of Scottish independence.”

      Scotland has her own currency on day one of independence – it is the pound Sterling. Perhaps you should check your facts before attempting to come to a conclusion. BTW: your links are irrelevant. Furthermore check this one out:-

      https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/who-owns-the-bank-of-england

      The Bank of England was nationalised by The United Kingdom Government it thus does not belong, and never has belonged, to the Kingdom of England and on independence day it is not just the Kingdom of Scotland that becomes independent – so also does the Kingdom of England but the big difference is that the Kingdom of Scotland has a legally elected government while the Kingdom of England has no legally elected government and Westminster is the United Kingdom Parliament not the English parliament.

      So, there you go, all your theories are based upon the propaganda lies told to you by the Westminster propaganda machinery. Thing is the majority of the population of Scotland believe that Scotland is leaving behind an rUnited Kingdom that owns the Pound Sterling and the Bank of England. Want a wee laugh?

      The Kingdom of England doesn’t even own the Houses of Parliament. They old parliament burned to the ground in 1834 and was then designed and purpose built by The United Kingdom Parliament, (not the parliament of England), using United Kingdom taxpayer’s money. So there you go – the United Kingdom parliament belongs to the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom is a two partner union of kingdoms.

      https://www.parliament.uk/education/teaching-resources-lesson-plans/fire-of-1834/

      Truth, so they say, is stranger than fiction and Westminster/Britnat/English propaganda is pure fiction.

    264. Avalanche says:

      Let me explain to you why I think the currency is more important than you think.

      Lets Imagine I’m a fairly neutral voter without a degree in economics. I don’t care that much about international finance but I know that if I buy something on Amazon.com or from the rest of the world with a foreign currency I pay more because the UK £ is worth less than it used to be.

      1. Before Independence
      My mortgage is £1,000 uk£. I earn £2,000 per month uk£. I have £1k a month to live on. I am reasonably happy.

      2. After Independence (say with the Scots £ trading below the UK £.)

      My mortgage is still £1,000 uk£. My £2,000 salary is now paid in Scots £ and this only buys the equivalent of £1,500 UK£. My salary less mortgage now gives me only £500 left to live on. My real spare income has halved and I am very unhappy.

      This is the real problem with currency.
      You can tell me that the Scottish £ will always be worth the same as the UK £. I’m not so sure I believe you. You can tell me that the banks will generously swap all their Scottish Mortgage. I certainly don’t believe them.

      I’m pretty certain that 99% of the posters on this site don’t think that this would ever be a problem or in any event think it’s worth the risk.

      I also suspect that significantly less than 99% of floating voters would agree…..

    265. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “You can tell me that the Scottish £ will always be worth the same as the UK £. I’m not so sure I believe you.”

      Why wouldn’t it be worth more?

    266. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think some might have misunderstood the purpose of my links. I am not suggesting folk use the knowledge I’m sharing, as direct arguments for indy, though some of the material is particularly powerful in that respect. My aim is to use this period of uncertainty to offer an alternative to the ‘One Nation’ world view, and to de-bunk some of the most debilitating BritNat myths. Obviously, the effectiveness of my approach is limited by the level of interest and cooperation of the readers.

      Cultural Change: The How and the Why

      Abstract

      More than half a century of cross-cultural research has demonstrated group-level differences in psychological and behavioral phenomena, from values to attention to neural responses. However, cultures are not static, with several specific changes documented for cultural products, practices, and values. How and why do societies change? Here we juxtapose theory and insights from cultural evolution and social ecology. Evolutionary approaches enable an understanding of the how of cultural change, suggesting transmission mechanisms by which the contents of culture may change.

      Ecological approaches provide insights into the why of cultural change: They identify specific environmental pressures, which evoke shifts in psychology and thereby enable greater precision in predictions of specific cultural changes based on changes in ecological conditions. Complementary insights from the ecological and cultural evolutionary approaches can jointly clarify the process by which cultures change. We end by discussing the relevance of cultural change research for the contemporary societal shifts and by highlighting several critical challenges and future directions for the emerging field of cross-temporal research on culture and psychology.

      Keywords cultural change, cultural evolution, cultural transmission, culture/diversity, evoked responses, evolutionary psychology, environment, behavioral ecology, history, language/communication, scientific methodology

      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1745691617699971

    267. Avalanche says:

      It might well be. Long term I can see an argument it may well be. Then again short term things might get sticky. But there is no guarantee and that’s why I think these things matter more to a swing voter.

    268. CameronB Brodie says:

      Avalanche
      I’m no financial expert but I stick my neck out in the hope financial experts will be gentle. Given Scotland’s vast natural wealth, a Scottish pound is likely to be worth more than the English pound. This will need to be managed in order not to suppress development in Scotland. Sorry, that’s about the limit of my comprehension of macro-finance and the best I can forecast.

    269. Avalanche says:

      “I stick my neck out in the hope financial experts will be gentle. Given Scotland’s vast natural wealth, a Scottish pound is likely to be worth more than the English pound.”

      I suspect most posters here would agree with you. Rev. Stuart Campbell says: “Why wouldn’t it be worth more?” Practically everyone here is probably operating from the base point that Scotland will financially be better off independent than part of UK but that kite didnt’ exactly fly last time.

      My point is that most voters don’t care about a deficit. That’s big numbers and the governments’ problem.

      The reason I think the currency really matters is that if my scenario might be true, then that’s a real issue for real voters.

    270. CameronB Brodie says:

      Avalanche
      I wasn’t trying to brush away your concern, my response was limited by my knowledge. Personal financial concerns are obviously valid to the individual and need to be addressed.

    271. Dunbar's Ghost says:

      @Robert Peffers says: 25 April, 2019 at 7:47pm

      “Oh! Right! And presumably you do?”

      Well, yes I do have a little grasp, mostly as a result of reading people who have a much greater one, such as Richard Murphy and Craig Dalzell, who is the source of the paragraphs that you went on at great length (and with much irrelevence) to criticize for using the term ‘UK’ as shorthand for all those factors he mentions, viz.:
      “the UK’s tax code, the UK’s banking regulation, the UK’s monetary policies and presumably we’d need to adapt our regulatory framework to match Britain’s after it leaves the EU”

      Whoever is responsible for these after Scottish independence (and IMHO UK is an acceptable shorthand, since it’s the UK that is responsible at present), and assuming that you’re not arguing that no-one will be responsible for these things as they apply to whatever you want to call what remains of the former UK after Scottish independence, they remain obstacles to Scotland’s control of its economy until there is a Scottish Central Bank issuing Scottish currency.
      And yes, of course Scotland owns part of the reserves of the ‘Bank of England’; were the Central Bank of Scotland to acquire its share of those reserves (along with its share of the HP and all the other shared assets) it would already have a greater percentage of its GDP in reserves than the current Bank of England has of the UK GDP.

      Besides all of which, your argument that after Scottish independence there will be only the kingdom of England does not confirm with any other definition of the UK that I have seen, which include Wales and the province of N. Ireland both of which will remain part of the United Kingdom until they decide otherwise.

    272. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lenny Hartley
      That’s funny. I was freelance, did an exercise splitting a large public to 2 privates. and I found a team that nobody knew existed. They were delighted to be found as they’d heard about the exercise and did wonder what would happen to them!

      @Avalanche
      The mortgage was one of the biggest questions I was asked in Indy Ref 1, and despite doing a full week’s worth of research over 3 or 4 weeks, I couldn’t find an answer.

      So yes, it’s a biggie, and still I’ve seen no intention to answer it by the official YES umbrellas (all 57 of them).

    273. yesindyref2 says:

      The problem is that a lot of people are “just getting by”, and while they’d like to be better off, that’s nice, they most certainly don’t want and can’t afford to be worse off.

      So even if in their heart of hearts they’d dearly love Scotland to be Independent, sheer survival made them vote NO.

      I found the underlying support for Indy at around 75%. The result was 45%.

    274. yesindyref2 says:

      @Avalanche
      I’m also one who thinks the Scots pound would rise, and any short-term structural problem would be over-compensated by a 5 year “honeymoon” period for Scotland.

      Edinburgh would be the new state cpaital on the bucket list, Scotland would get a lot more tourists including the disapora of millions of expat Scots. International businesses would split the UK into rUK and Scotland for buying and selling and if they had a team handling buying and selling for the UK would split that. There’s be honeymoon business therefore.

      And Scotland would be a greatly increased venue for international conferences. The increase in the tourism and hospitality, and food and drink, would in my opinion, greatly exceed any drops for instance in the financial sector.

      Talking about that financial sector if as a result we lose the casino type operations but encourage prudential finance by positive progressive regulation, then good, Good riddance to the City banking bonus hungry disreputable casiono scene, hello prudential which increases our credit rating and decreases cost of borrowing, perhaps even to the extent it cost money to deposit large sums in the banks, even including the central bank indirectly.

    275. Avalanche says:

      ” CameronB Brodie says:
      Avalanche
      I wasn’t trying to brush away your concern, my response was limited by my knowledge. Personal financial concerns are obviously valid to the individual and need to be addressed.”

      Sure – remember I’m being a hypothetical swing voter here. I’m not even arguing these concerns are correct, simply suggesting that it’s more of an issue than people think.

    276. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Worth keeping in mind whenever Unionists (aka British Nationalists) go on about what currency we’d use/have to use:

      Remember currency (whatever it is called GBP £, USD $, Euro €) has to have something tangible backing the paper notes, plastic card or metal coins etc.

      The UK has >£2 Trillion of debt growing at a rate of £5,170 per second with very little to back it up.

      http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

      Also remember that Energy is real

      Oil, Gas, Electricity from renewables is real.

      Scotland not only has a future, Scotland is the future of European Energy Security (and all the revenue that will put into a Scottish Exchequer).

      The only viable country in the so-called UK.

      Links:

      “Oil is Britain’s thin red line against a hard Brexit. The North Sea provided an economic buffer during the “winter of discontent” of 1978 and the “Black Monday” stock market crash, which almost destroyed the City a decade later.”

      http://archive.is/EbtBu

      ‘The Truth About Scottish Independence: The McCrone Report Scandal.’ powerful evidence that Scotland could not only survive but with the bonus of oil and gas it would match Norway in riches.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92EOw30jzKM

      ‘The Stolen Seas.’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfbfldSrJ-0

      ‘Jim Rogers on Brexit: If Scotland takes its oil with it…’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNMUPIsQjf4

      Oh aye and this one:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/when-they-think-were-not-listening/

    277. Cactus says:

      Hey Ken, ‘La Paz’ you say… don’t mind if aye do, for you:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0G1gCIB65c

      Ah saw the guys playing LIVE once on the Renfrew Ferry, it was an excellent gig, you should have been there dude. Have ye a smashin’ Friday and weekend Ken, what and whom do you think the Cairnstoon will be of tomorrow?

    278. Phil says:

      Footsoldier says:
      25 April, 2019 at 11:44 pm

      Phil @ 11.01pm Does this mean I will have to move all my savings in England to a Scottish financial institution and will they offer the same rate? This does not sound very attractive to soft No voters we are trying to convert and what about Isa’

      Reading what has been made available to date my guess is that ‘Scottish Banks’ will have to design their own appropriate products’ You choose which, if any you wish to use, you choose when to make your transfer(s).

      Liz G has also commented on looking up the common green. Try it for focused analysis.

      As for an English mad dash clogging up the banking system; always remember banks are run by the most worldlywise, most erudite, most skilled, most prescient, most infallible, makers of the world’s costliest mistakes to correct, and are just about the most well paid creatures on tnis earth.

      Why would anyone worry about how they handle a wee fret over where to bank?

    279. Dunbar's Ghost says:

      yesindyref2 says: 26 April 2019 at 2.35pm
      “The mortgage was one of the biggest questions I was asked in Indy Ref 1, and despite doing a full week’s worth of research over 3 or 4 weeks, I couldn’t find an answer.”

      The answer is on page 48 of ‘How to Start a New Country’ so I’m surprised you couldn’t find it on the Commonspace website; essentially the conversion of a mortgage from one currency to another presents two possible scenarios
      1 The mortgage is a ‘fixed interest’ one or an ‘Early Termnation Fee’ is charged to end the contract: in this case it might be necessary for the Scottish government to cover these costs, a substantial expense:
      2 The lenders find themselves in a competetive market for Scottish mortgages and stand to lose considerable, if not all, their Scottish business by not offering to convert the payment currency. It is in their interest to make the transition.



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