Wings Over Scotland

I shop in Aldi. I know they also do the brit thing but at least they do have scottish produce

It is used to subjogate us

I think that is the word.

They have it everywhere but going and even take a saltire to a concert….how do they get away with It!?

Well… I don’t disagree but why get so hung job in it to hate?

I can’t say on here Liz. It’s very personal.

I hope you get a good sleep.

Take care

You too Brian stay well
And haste ye back

A lot of comments with I think the underlying message that the current leadership of the SNP has gone utterly soft on the pursuit of independence.

The target of getting an option of a referendum into place by the end of the current parliament is pure kick the can down the road sophistry.

No more the dynamism of the Salmond government. No more the vigour of introducing real policies like no student fees, free prescription, no NHS parking charges, the decision to build our way through recession through infrastructure expansion, the saving of Ferguson’s shipyard through skilled governmental intervention, l winning the right to hold the 2014 independence referendum that took us close, very close.

But now all gone. The vision of a Citizen Assembly, gender fluidity , a referendum some time maybe in the next decade, an increase in the poly bag tax, and then some more of the policies that undely acceptance of the writ of our Southern masters.

But that I suppose was the trap of devolution and the current SNP sit comfortably in it as we get ripped out of Europe , have our economy wrecked by a Westminster in chaos, whilst huge numbers of our citizenry sustain fuel, food and income poverty.

Yeah First Minister, like the once policy of abolishing the unfair council tax, it’s all gone.

New Labour on steroids complacency did for Labour what it will do for you. Time is running out.

I see the “healthy” MSM are full of the idea that UK pensioners, the poorest in the OECD, should have their incomes cut so that young people can afford to eat and live in a house.

This is from a report in the House of Lords – people who collect £300 per day just for turning up. The biggest unelected body of state decison makers outside the Chinese politburo.

Why not tax the rich instead? Then we can all afford to eat and live in houses.

The citizens assembly worked exceptionally well in Ireland. It delivered nuanced and we’ll evidenced proposals

Sturgeon is just lining her poakits like aw the rest

An independence march wiv no FM? bawbags

A plethora o blue n white Divine….must be the same day as a Rangers game then hen

The pretendy parly had it’s day in the limelight yesterday…now back in your boxes

For your information Divine, I was playing with them all day and night.not one word unsaid was true.
I’ve never seen such a bunch of self opinionated self righteous tests as on here.
Those slamming into the Rev should give him an apology.
It’s his site and he was as usual bang on the money.
Open your eyes peeps ffs

Time never runs out, but SNP is morphing into a “normal” UK political party.

Well done Wullie at 5.39am…..great post. Very insightful.

But if those leading the team are not in it then it is certain to fail……Wee Jimmy Krankie

Throw yer money awa folks.
Neither the National nor the SNP will get that Section 30 order.
I was going to say give it to a food bank but I just saw the SNP McGarrie story…….you’ve been warned

Goodness gracious, multiple posting of serveral people under the same non de plume A completely pointless exercise. Rev Stu will put right shortly to preserve the site.

Just scroll on by the toxic irrelevance. There is nothing some people will no do to be egotistically irrelevant. The life of Brian totally irelevant, toxicity.

Brian,as soon as I saw you say “Wee Jimmy Kankie” I remembered who you are. You are the wee retired Sergeant Major in the Black Watch now working for the MOD 77th who sits in our pub incontinently talking shite. Ya spanner.

For the rest of us we will keep calm and carry on. Wee crowny thingy imogee.

Keep hearing people say but see how far we have come, follow the SNP’s proven track record. But the situation then is completely different to the situation now. It’s one thing to be a struggling minority, another thing to have a majority and still motivate those who supported you back then.

The SNP have proven capable administrators, however it’s not difficult to look good against a bag of shit.
IMHO (did I actually write that! Good god!) Sturgeon is obviously a sharp lawyer, but is she the politician for the times?

No doubt if there is a GE, WM will be hoping and planning for another body blow to our ranks. Then the majority and chance has gone and we are screwed.

Nicola did what she could.

Even if there is/was a plausible framework to ‘Repeal The Act’, declare UDI or whatever this month’s fanciful flavour of the same is, it would still require a statement of majority support from the Scottish people, either a referendum or an election.

Preparing for either takes time. So putting the legal and administrative framework in place for a referendum now while the Brexit situation remains opaque is very sensible. Remember, the mandate says break glass in case of Brexit. It hasn’t happened yet, so using the mandate now could be attacked. We have been promised a referendum in the next two years, and you can be sure the political and legal groundwork will be in place.

So get out and campaign. Forget your understandable but unrealistic wish for ‘instant Indy’ for a few months and start a meaningful campaign to win hearts and minds, as Nicola did yesterday.

The Unionist media are having a field day with this blog right now. Stop feeding them. I am remaining a member of the SNP, but I will not be displaying my ‘Proud Cybernat’ or ‘Alert Reader’ badges until you all calm down and wise up. I will still be here, but at the moment there is no way I would recommend this site to any of my ‘soft No’ friends or acquaintances.

And now let’s get onto something more immediately relevant… GCC’s obstruction of the upcoming AUOB march.

What are we going to do about that?

Daily Mail hyperventilating on prospect of Indy Ref 2.

Snp need to start making the positive case for Independence and beef up its rebuttal unit to counter unionist propaganda on Snp performance in government.

Well I watched the whole speech from Nicola and all of the questions and Nicola’s answers. She most definitely wants Independence.
And as each question from the union supporting sides got more and more stupid and repetitive, Nicola had to work hard not to get angry with them. She was calm and controlled and positive and mentioned in almost every answer how Scotland would be better off independent.
I think she played it very well indeed. And by the looks on her opponents faces, they knew it too!

So, The National will launch a Unionist fact-checking and rebuttal service with 8000 subscribers, will they?

I’m sorry, but as it’s Scotland’s ONLY Pro-Indy newspaper, they should be doing this as a matter of course, NOT waiting till they get 8000 subscribers!!
And I speak as a National online subscriber!

Scotland might well declare UDI but then it will be like Puntland or Western Sahara – unrecognized. The EU has made it crystal clear that an independent scotland, IF THAT IS ACHIEVED IN A CONSTITUTIONAL AND LEGAL manner, will be welcomed into the club.
Now, the problem y’all have is this – the legal and constitutional reality is the Westminister must agree to any independence declaration. Malarkey about the interpretation of the union of crowns, the Act of Union, about national self determination trumping everything, all that is hot air. A referendum or PERHAPS a clear and unequivocal statement that if a supermajority of Scottish MP’s or MSP’s stand at an election on a single issue – independence- then thats your option set, it seems from the viewpoint of a sympathetic outsider.

Indy ref2 Being discussed on BBC Radio Scotland Morning Call at 9 a.m.
Contact details

Phone 0500 92 95 00

Sms 80295

Email morningcallscotland@bbc.co.uk

Facebook link to facebook.com

Twitter @bbcradioscot

Email morningcallscotland@bbc.co.uk
.

Interesting main webpage for the Herald at the moment.

The SNP have already more or less known for years that any UK Govt ( Labour or Tory) would not give another S30 if there was a realistic prospect of a YES win.

The SNP repeatedly deny the people of Scotland a chance to vote directly for independence at election time. Instead, the SNP want to be elected as administrators of the UK’s Scotland colony.

The SNP are unwilling to offer independence at the ballot box as that runs the risk of SNP politicians losing out their cushy jobs, power and prestige as colonial administrators for the British Govt, if they lose an election fought on independence.

The (false) counter argument, for a straight mandate for indy, is that the SNP need to get into power at Holyrood to offer an indyref. The Continuity Bill events have already shown that the UK state can simply overrule anything that comes from the Scottish Parliament. Devolution is a con. Scottish democracy via the Scottish Parliament is a con. Democratic mandate via the SP is something the UK Govt and UK Supreme Court has already rejected.

The SNP continuing to play along in their part of the con, pretending they can deliver an indyref via the Scottish Parliament is a cynical attempt to appease and con votes from the YES movement in the Euro elections and 2021 Scottish election.

So, no indyref and no indy plebiscite elections any time soon. The argument there is: the SNP are wise not to hold a vote on indy when figures don’t clearly indicate an INDY win. There is some merit in that argument.

The reality is the SNP have done almost nothing in the last five years to promote independence.

Preparation is 99% of the process. There has been no preparation, no campaign by the SNP to convince people of the merits of indy for the last five years. No attempts to bust the myths of Project Fear. No attempts to establish answers to basic questions such as: how are the debts and assets of the UK distributed if Scotland chose to end the Union? Could Scotland legally prevent Brexit by exercising Scottish sovereignty and Scotland democratically voting Remain?

So, what now for the YES movement? The SNP lead – they lead us to a dead end with their doomed-to- failure indyref policy.

Dave McEwan Hill says:

“They and STV are getting worse than BBC”

Don’t worry about the BBC losing their crown Dave. They and ITV are competing against each other in talking down Scotland. I know I shouldn’t but I watched the last ten minutes of Newsnight last night. They were discussing the possibility of Scottish independence.

It seemed to be surprisingly reasonable until the last two or three minutes. Then the boot went in, leaving no time for a response from the Scottish person involved. Oh how they laughed.

Westminster refuses > court case > UN Right to development.

That’s the legal route unless Queen Lizzy, Queen of Scots knockles a few heads together. Can’t see it somehow.

UDI would need at least 90% of Scots in favour not only of Indy but UDI as well. Ain’t gonna happen!

O/t. I see a lords committee led by lord true has recommended abolishing free tv licences for pensioners. Cutting or abolishing winter fuel payments, free bus passes, and other free pensioner perks. Ah well, if that doesnt focus the minds of those elderly no voters in Scotland. Then i’m afraid nothing will.

@ fireproofjim

you said: “There is a good argument that a strong Yes campaign will achieve the magical 50%+1, (after all the last campaign took us from below 30% to 45%), but for that campaign we have to get the conditions right.”

I’ve heard the argument put forward a number of times, that since we went from (below 25%, if my memory serves me right) or 30% to 45% in the first referendum, then surely getting from 45% to over 50% in the second referendum should be relatively easy!

However, this does not take into account the ‘Law of diminishing returns’ because most of the folk who could be easily converted, did so in the first ref, AND have remained loyal to the cause, but we still have the stubborn 10% or more, who although support the concept of an independent Scotland, they are too easily frightened off the idea by MSM scare stories.

It is these people who will help push Scotland towards its independence, but this will only happen when they are more scared of the disaster that is Brexit, than better-Together’s inevitable ‘Project Fear Mark 2’, promoted by the ever willing MSM.

Robert Louis says:
25 April, 2019 at 9:41 am
And, further to my last post, I’d like to see the SNP start talking of nothing but independence from now on.

She’s mentioned it pretty much every time she has spoken in public or on camera recently, surprised you hjaven’t noticed.

@Old Pete
When the proposed Referendum Bill receives Royal Assent it becomes Law. And Councils are obliged to floowl the Law and perform their duties under it. I would think that any council officers refusing to co-operate could be prosecuted.

In all of this, however, there is one point that folk, including the SNP seem to forget. Scotland has by democratic vote, already determined it does not wish to leave the EU. The Scotgov, therefore has a clear democratic mandate to keep Scotland in the EU. That is the will of the sovereign people of Scotland.

It really is not complicated.

Robert Louis @ 9.41
In the Q&A session after her speech, Nicola mentioned her wish for Scotland to be independent in almost every answer.
She also managed to get in a mention of how Labour voted for Tories in 2017. She also managed to mention a couple of times (once to Murdo F and another to a lib dem guy) how Federalism would never work as no Westminster government has ever wanted it and never will want it.
I think she did really well, considering what/who she is up against!
She has a plan and the opposition are scared because they know it will be a good one.

Robert Louis says:
25 April, 2019 at 9:53 am
In all of this, however, there is one point that folk, including the SNP seem to forget. Scotland has by democratic vote, already determined it does not wish to leave the EU. The Scotgov, therefore has a clear democratic mandate to keep Scotland in the EU. That is the will of the sovereign people of Scotland.

It really is not complicated.

How do you propose ScotGov performs this miracle, unless the EU makes some sort of extra-statutory concession to Scotland, which it is not going to do while Brexit is unresolved.

Do calm down, we have two years to sort this – but it needs cool heads.

. . . and of course the easiest way to keep Scotland in the EU is to recverse Brexit, which is what the ScotGov has been trying to do for two years – and getting mightily slagged off by Indy hotheads for it as well.

Robert, I think you will hear Nicola mention independence nearly every time she speaks from now on.

The problem has been that even when she keeps it below the radar and concentrates on the day job the Yoons will not stop commenting on her ‘obsession’ with independence.

I think she has realised that there is nothing left to gain by soft-pedalling it. She has called their bluff by, in effect, asking them to bring forward options for ‘anything but indy’ to improve Scotland’s situation. They will either bring forward hee-haw or straw men she can demolish without breaking sweat.

How to achieve it??? Independence. The referendum should already have been called just after the brexit vote.

Robert, what good would it have done? A Section 30 would have been refused, Yoon controlled councils would have refused to participate in an ‘illegal’ (haha) referendum and NO voters would have boycotted it in droves, resulting in a very low turnout and an easy opportunity for the referendum to be discredited and ignored.

My great hope was that we could have an electronic, bombproof blockchain technology enabled referendum with over 50% of the eligible electorate voting YES< but this seems as far away as ever both in terms of technological implementation and actual numbers of people prepared to commit.

NO, it may be frustrating (I am not getting any younger!), but I am convinced that the SNP under Sturgeon remain our last great hope – else we risk falling slowly but inexorably back into fringe status and lose 50 years of progress.

Having a different opinion to the SNP, does not make an indy campaigner a’ hothead’.

I did not say you were a hothead, and I understand your frustration. But you are contradicting yourself.

FIrstly you say ScotGov has a duty to save the Scottish people from Brexit – which I agree with. But then you say Sturgeon was wrong to try to use the systems at her disposal (viz. diplomacy and the Westminster parliament) to try to do just that by cancelling or mitigating Brexit.

OK, it looks like all attempts have failed and England cannot be saved from its own stupidity, but is determined to drag Scotland down with it. But she had to try, and to be seen to try. Now the iceberg looms and we get the lifeboat ready for launch while we still have a weather window.

Scotsrenewables at 1009am,

I’m not going to keep debating so here is my final point.

Of course a section 30 order would have been refused in 2016. Just like it was yesterday, just like it will be in 2020, 2021,2022,2023 etc,,

Time to move on from this s30 nonsense. Scotland does not need the permission of England to end the treaty of union. It is called unilateral for a reason. Otherwise we need to just accept Scotland can NEVER be independent until England says so.

Scotgov needs to move on from this nonsense about s30. They are not going to get one.

Ian more,

I actually think ‘The National’ newspaper is very good. It is a business, and they need subscribers to undertake additional work, pay more man hours. It’s not rocket science. It will really help for an indy referendum campaign, when(if) a referendum is called.

I hope they get some new subscribers. It has some very good writers, including the wee ginger dug.

Iain More says:
25 April, 2019 at 10:16 am
So let me get this right.

So where does the National get its money to perform these actions, you tube? From big daddy Herald group? I think not.

Good grief, Stu, check this clown’s IP address . . . it’s not unreasonable to stop multiple identity postings from swamping a blog, in fact it is standard practice on many forums.

Sinky at 1022am,

The polls are not going to move substantially until such time as a referendum is actually called. At the start of the last campaign, the polls for yes were around 28-30%. The campaign moved that up to 45%.

Waiting for the polls to call a referendum or vote, is just nuts. Just ask Theresa May, the polls showed she would increase her majority in an election, but that changed once the campaign started. She lost seats and ended up with a minority government.

brian lucey says:
25 April, 2019 at 8:57 am
Scotland might well declare UDI but then it will be like Puntland or Western Sahara – unrecognized. The EU has made it crystal clear that an independent scotland, IF THAT IS ACHIEVED IN A CONSTITUTIONAL AND LEGAL manner, will be welcomed into the club.
Now, the problem y’all have is this – the legal and constitutional reality is the Westminister must agree to any independence declaration. Malarkey about the interpretation of the union of crowns, the Act of Union, about national self determination trumping everything, all that is hot air…

You’re obviously new here since you’re talking about a UDI, and you’re not very well informed about Scotland’s Constitution either if you think it’s all hot air. It would be patronising to say your perspective is classic BritNatism, but I reserve the right to think it.

The problem we have has nothing to do with “our” Constitution, but is two fold; our population is indoctrinated from cradle to grave with a monopoly of “British” propaganda and distortion of the Scottish political landscape and lawful Constitution, and secondly, our “equal” partner in this Union has never once seen itself as our equal, and is a deluded egotist who believes in its own exceptionalism and considers itself above the law. For 300 years Scotland has been too weak, disorganised and isolated to pursue its true Constitutional legitimacy, and until recently has been denied political representation outside the Westminster system. All that is changing. All that was, is now in a state of flux.

You could still make the argument that Holyrood is still part of that Westminster system, but at least there is now a degree of autonomous government, and a greater degree of autonomous thinking. The momentum for change is one way traffic. Independence and self determination is kept in abeyance by the UK’s suppression and distortion of Scottish affairs, but that damn of Unionism is now springing leaks everywhere, and sooner or later the damn will burst. It is inevitable.

For Centuries, the United Kingdom has only survived because it has managed to disrupt Scotland’s leadership and government, and suppress any and all rejection of “Britishness”, which is really just a flag of convenience for anglicisation. It’s control over us is still daunting, but it has never been weaker.

We have the semblance of our “own” government, and social media also allows to coordinate ourselves and work together constructively towards the common objective of a modern Scotland which is a fully autonomous sovereign nation making its own way in the world. We grow stronger with the dissemination of information. Unionism is sustained by suppressing it.

We haven’t got it right yet. Some of us, like me, would jump through a plate glass window to seize control of Scotland’s Sovereignty whatever the consequence. Others are more moderate, some, to the point of insufferable timidly in the eyes of others, but when we raise our flags, you can see by the sea of saltires how absolutely united we actually are.

It is our Scottish prerogative to fight amongst ourselves. We can disagree, even come to blows amongst ourselves, but when it clicks, when the threat is understood, Scotland will come together as one Nation and be rid of this Union forever.

If Westminster thinks Scotland needs an S30, good! leave them thinking that.
The 2021 date appears to apply only if Brexit does not happen/is not settled. In this case the disrespect and insulting behaviour shown to our Scottish MP’s in Westminster would justify a referendum. Nicola said next to nothing about what would happen if Brexit did occur before then, but she has always said this act would be enough to call a referendum. Hoping for more clarity over the weekend.

Breeks at 1032am,

Totally agree with this;

“It is our Scottish prerogative to fight amongst ourselves. We can disagree, even come to blows amongst ourselves, but when it clicks, when the threat is understood, Scotland will come together as one Nation and be rid of this Union forever.”

I cannot wait to see this tawdry unwanted undemocratic, pointless union with England ended. That is our common cause. It is that rock-solid common cause which scares unionists so much.

Another thing about a Referendum organised by the ScotGov, Sturgeon said

“We will shortly introduce legislation to set the rules for any referendum that is now, or in the future, within the competence of the Scottish Parliament.

We will aim for this legislation to be on the statute book by the end of this year. Mike Russell will set out the details next month.”

I’ve lost track a bit of this though I was following it a bit, but I think all elections will be under the EMB, and that the Electoral Commisson is being dispensed with, but don’t quote me on that!

“The Electoral Management Board for Scotland (EMB) has a key role in delivering electoral events in Scotland. Returning Officers and Electoral Registration Officers drawn from across the country lead and support their colleagues to coordinate elections and referendums to give results in which the voter can have full confidence.

In 2014 the EMB gave extensive support to its Convener, Mary Pitcaithly in her role as Chief Counting Officer for the Scottish Independence Referendum.”

link to electionsscotland.info

As far as I can see, and maybe I need to go to Specsavers, the EMB appoints ROs, and the RO appoints teams, i.e. counters etc. By default these seem to be drawn from or with council cooperation, but I don’t think they need to be. I’d guess the RO has the power to co-opt ANY public building for the purposes of an election of any sort. Otherwise democracy would be at peril of such as LA strikes or indeed, refusal to co-operate for political reasons.

So as far as I can see, Unionists can boycott the referendum as far as their own votes go, but can do nothing else at all. They are powerless hahahahahahahaha.

Do we have a timeline for the referendum legislation?

Nicola said the legislative framework for a referendum would be in place by the end of the year, but hinted it might be sooner.

I have my doubts that these posts are actually from genuine Independence supporters but you never know. Lots of genuine Independence supporters on here often talk the same language?

“Sturgeon needs to take a long hard look at herself.

Time she moved on and retire to her villa in Portugal to do something useful with the rest of her life.”

The Scotsman btl comments are wondrous, many on here would be made very welcome I’m sure.

@ScotsRenewables
I suspect it will if needed to be sooner, otherwise they’ll let it follow its course as a longer red rag waved in the face of John Bull, if, for instance Brexit is delayed yet again to next March.

Breeks

Brian Lucey has definitely posted before.

Can we all stop with accusations towards other posters. It’s really ok to disagree with someone, that is normal but nastiness is unwarranted.

Of course Scotland does not need a section 30 order to hold a Scottish independence referendum Scotland does not need England’s Westminster to give scotland permission to become an independent country all that is needed is a majority in favour of Scottish independence however, Scotland will benefit from a cooperative separation the separation of Scotland from England will require many many legislative changes and complex arrangements over a lengthy period of time ,what we do not want is an uncooperative Westminster when we declare independence .
Once a majority in Scotland vote for independence and independence is declared it will be embraced by Westminster and presented to England as being of benefit to all, an amicable separation is always best so seeking the agreement of England’s Westminster is sound practice.

Talking about the Scotsman, Kenny MacAskill had an article there apparently, quoted in the Herald. Use of very clearly Unionist language, such as “delusional” about Indy supporters expecting a relatively soon Indy Ref, and “But it allows her [Sturgeon] to reassure the party this weekend that she’s undaunted and the light undimmed.”

Can’t make up my mind about him, is he running interference for Sturgeon and the rest, adding to the Unionists’ confusion? Or is he for real, perhaps bitter about being sacked by Sturgeon, same as that Alex Bell ding dong was by Salmond.

@Maolbeatha
From Sturgeon’s speech:

“We do not need a transfer of power – such as a section 30 order – to pass such a framework Bill, though we would need it to put beyond doubt or challenge our ability to apply the Bill to an independence referendum.”

Read into that what we will!

But remember she frames her words very carefully, with a lawyer’s precision.

@Brian Lucey
From Sturgeon’s speech, after the one above:

“Of course, as members are aware, the UK government’s current position is that it will not agree to transfer power.

I believe that position will prove to be unsustainable.”

and

“If we are successful in further growing the support and the demand for independence – and I will say more later this week about how we build that case – then no UK government will be able to deny the will of the people or stop that will being expressed.”

Sturgeon’s Westminster conditioned having never been an MP, she’s a fearty 😎

@yesindyref2

Sturgeons speech is crystal clear so it’s puzzling why so many appear to miss the point. Scotland will be having another referendum. Full stop, we don’t need “permission”

By the way on your earlier post about MacAskill it does look like he’s much like Bell or Sillars and a few others.

james obrian on lbc discussing indy

Just as a matter of concern to some. Several have said “Nicola has no plan”. They don’t know Nicola. She has a plan. I might not agree entirely with her plan but be assured she has a plan. She always has a plan.

Let’s see what she says to “us” on Sunday.

@Thepnr

The rest of your posting makes it clear, but this is missing a little bit – “they can try to prevent it

They cannot stop such a bill being voted on but they can prevent it becoming law.

Basically yes, all this talk about the ScotGov taking things to court is redundant, they can just do things and make others take it to court.

Or to put it precisely, *try to* take it to court, as a court could even rule there was no case to answer, the sumission (e.g. by the UK Gov) was incopetent, so no court case allowed.

@yesindyref2

It looks that way, if Westminster don’t like it then they can try and take the Scottish government to court.

Let them try as I’m sure the Scottish government are prepared for just such an outcome. Might even be inviting it?

@Thepnr
Yes, her speech was a little provocative when it came to the UKG …

The Establishment have won….

SNP and Nicola and her team have either been seduced by power or find themselves entrenched in the view they are fighting the power!…all the while…Westminster just howl like a big fat Kingpin making an exhausted Spiderman fight his battles all over town ( that’s Marvel not DC – Ed)

The prime focus of Independence has now been replaced with “providing a competent devolved government and lets stick to looking at Independence as a long term outcome”.

The best the SNP can hope for is people recognising the good job they are doing as a devolved Govt but then why would anyone want to change then doing the job they are good at…theyre hoisted on their own petard regardless of how worthy a cause they believe they have been championing especially in the years devoted to being “the good guys” on Brexit debates.

I don’t believe Independence should be an option against Brexit, I believe in Independence..thats it. No comparisons, no excuses, no fudges dependent on a mad Tory Party tearing itself to bits.

Im an SNP member of many many years and Im now resigned to the fact that this wave of opportunity is ebbing…we are looking at another decade or 20 years before the cause re-emerges as the raison-d’etre of the party.

Its a shame, so it is but its the hope that kills.
One day we will be free.

PS…Can anyone also tell me why Ian Blackford was at the Irish journalists funeral..if it was representing Scotland..why?. It looked like nothing more than token photo opportunism and standing next to Arlene does nothing to help anyone but Arlene.

That first question from Small Dick Leonard just might be the worst back-pass straight to an attacker to present them with an open goal.

And Nicola disn’t miss. He is a total embarrassment.

Petra, Thepnr, Scotrenewables, yesindyref2

Agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying in your posts.

No plans? Scared? Clueless? Sold out?

I don’t think so. 🙂

I believe that the SG have a flexible set of plans and will taking on WM head on when the time is right. And there’s the crucial point.

Brexit has to run its course

How many times must this be repeated?

The Brexit can will not be kicked down the road forever. Sure, it’s taking longer than expected, but it ain’t a never ending story, folks. Brexit has the Brit Nat imperialists completely trapped. There is no painless or constitutional safe way out for them. Sooner or later, something has to give, and when it does, Nicola will be ready to strike (whatever form it takes).

Yoon newspapers are in hyper SNP bad mood today. They must be rattled

Re: desimond
25 April, 2019 at 12:10 pm

Ian Blackford was at Lyra McKee’s funeral in his official capacity as the elected leader of the SNP Westminster Group of MPs.

@Sinky says: 25 April, 2019 at 10:22 am:

” … Some on here don’t appreciate that we need a majority for independence and there is no obvious evidence for this at present.”

That bit is spot on, Sinky.

” … I suggest instead of moaning on here they get out and canvass middle class voters as those are needed to win.”

That bit is nearly correct but there is another bit needed to make it clear. In indyref1 the wonderful thing that happened was the sudden and Scotland wide birth of a spontaneous YES movement.

The wonderful thing about the YES movement was that it was spontaneous, nationwide and no one person or organisation organised it – it just spontaneously happened and it then survived the loss of the referendum.

… Another lost Indy Ref will kill it off for 50 year”

No it will not. Not as long as the people of Scotland demand it but that needs a majority demanding it.

Now here’s the thing – why is the YES movement now sitting on its hands waiting upon Nicola Sturgeon to lead them in indyref 2?

The SNP made a point of NOT leading or incorporating the YES movement and the YES Movement did not require her, or the SNP, to lead it. What is more although many SNP members were in both organisations the YES movement did its own thing and did it wonderfully well.

So the question now has to be – What the hell are you all waiting for? The strength of the YES movement was that it was NOT led by either the First Minister, the Scottish Government or the SNP as a political party. It was spontaneous.

There were YES movement strange bedfellows with people from every political party and none working hard for the principle of Scottish independence. So I repeat – What the hell are you waiting for?

Let Nicola and the legal eagles of the SG take on their opposite numbers in the Westminster/English/United Kingdom opposition while the legally sovereign people of Scotland make their obviously legal, “Claim of Right”.

Let me make it crystal clear – The people of Scotland are legally sovereign and a sovereign’s word is law. No matter that Westminster claims it sovereign it is not and is on a hiding to nothing if a majority of the sovereign people of Scotland make their Claim of Right. The UK Supreme Court and the international courts have conceded that as fact.

I’ll make it even clearer – Nicola Sturgeon cannot claim Scotland’s freedom and neither can a Scottish Government even with the facts being that as the United Kingdom is legally a bipartite union of two kingdoms and thus if one of the partner kingdoms wants to legally end the union then Westminster would be thrown out of any court because Westminster is legally representing both partner kingdoms so has conflict of interest no matter who they support.

The only way that Nicola, or the SG, can make a Claim of Right is with a clear mandate of the legally sovereign people of Scotland and no such mandate has yet been given to her. No Westminster dreamt up claptrap can overrule the claim of a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland.

Believe it or not but all the international bodies concede that ultimately, no matter what country or political state is involved, the people are ultimately sovereign. That is what is behind the Human Rights claims that, “Any identifiable group of people have the human right of self determination”.

Scotland can only regain her independence when a majority of the people of Scotland demand their right to self determination. Why are you sitting waiting while demanding Nicola Sturgeon do it for you?

@SilverDarling
There’s too many on our side saying “We need a Section 30”, even including some stupid jounralists. NO, we don’t, not neccessarily, it just makes things a lot easier. I’ve posted this enough times, and I think it’s BDTT has done the same. From 2012 when this debate was going on to start with:

link to ukconstitutionallaw.org

And to take it a bit further, for the “advisory” bit, I also don’t think so. A YES vote expresses the self-determination of the People of Scotland, but it also expresses that Sovereignty of the People of Scotland. As far as I can see, it’s binding.

And of course, it’s at that point if Westminster throws its toys out the pram, that the SG does actually take the UKG to court, and where the three legal Claims of Right come into it.

@Douglas
Ian Blackford was at Lyra McKee’s funeral in his official capacity as the elected leader of the SNP Westminster Group of MPs.

Thanks for reply but doesn’t answer the question of Why?
It was tragic of course but why should “SNP at Westminster” be represented there at all? I don’t view “playing diplomat” as being respectful to the dead at all.

Would we expect the DUP or Sinn Féin to appear if similar event happened here, I very much doubt it.

@Silver Darling
Peat Worrier said this:

“People who say: why not just call it tomorrow and dare Westminster to block it? We know the UK law officers can refer a Bill to the Supreme Court. But critically, any punter could too. That, as the Continuity Bill showed us, takes time and derails political timetables.”

In this he is incorrect. The UKSC heard the Miller Appeal quickly, in haste almost, and if asked for a good reason, such as an impending election, referendum, political things like invocation of Article 50, CAN advance the normal leisurely timetable. So can the ECJ as we saw.

And since the UKSC does NOT want to be involved politically, it is very likely to oblige, else it gets roundly accused of interfering in a political activity.

Peat Worrier sees the Law, not politics, at times. But since Law tries to avoid politics, it can’t ignore them.

IMHO any challenge to a ScotGov Referendum Bill would be heard and ruled on at latest a month before the planned date.

A strange day. The Yoonishly inclined are foaming at the mouth, Viking Warbler has returned with a vengeance and Wee Willie is begging for someone to make it stop and at the same time many on the Yes side wanted more.

Stu is right in that a legal way forward is necessary although I’m not too phased with the Tory claims they won’t grant a S30. Not much they have been strong and stable on has come to pass or held firm.

However, I do have one concern. May has stood down her “no deal” team. Either she is hopelessly optimistic on getting her deal through or she intends to give up on Brexit. If the latter then I don’t think there will be an Indyref2. At this point the indecision and uncertainty over Brexit leaves everything in the air. However, there does need to be a very cunning plan for holding a referendum should we fall out of the EU through mismanagement, incompetence or a palace coup. It could go either way. I wouldn’t like to call it.

@erry callachan says: 25 April, 2019 at 11:14 am:

” … Of course Scotland does not need a section 30 order to hold a Scottish independence referendum Scotland does not need England’s Westminster to give scotland permission to become an independent country”

Wee gentle reminder, Terry. Legally there is no such thing as you claim, “England’s Westminster”. The fact that there isn’t is a very good legal point if/when the matters of Scottish independence gets into court, and no court, even the United Kingdom Supreme Court, would dare claim there was.

Fact is the United Kingdom was constituted by The Treaty of Union and is thus a bipartite union of kingdoms and Westminster is thus legally the parliament of both equally sovereign kingdoms. In any court Westminster would be disqualified from fighting either kingdom’s corner against the other or against Westminster as being sovereign over one kingdom at its expense of the other. A clear conflict of interest. By the way there has been no kingdom of England parliament since 30 April 1707.

Legally there is no English parliament to fight England’s corner. Westminster is 100% illegally operating as the de facto parliament of England.

Brexit party announce prospective candidate for Glasgow euroconstituency.
Guess what, he’s a property developer. Scottish property on the up apparently.

@H&S
I meant to post this earlier but forgot:

link to heraldscotland.com

Which kind of answers that perhaps.

Just a wee point of order. You don’t have to be a member of the SNP to receive emails from the SNP, if you are on any SNP mailing lists you tend to receive all relevant updates such as Keith Brown’s latest.

OK let me get this right—- David Lidington the High Tory MP for Aylesbury just north of London comes to Scotland and tells us Scotland isn’t getting a self-determination referendum!

This beggars belief. Another bag carrier for Theresa May and the Tories up here and down there.