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Out of the loop

Posted on August 26, 2014 by

The key exchange on currency from last night’s debate:

At the end of the clip, a flustered Darling finally blurts out what the No camp have been trying not to admit for the entire campaign: “Of course we could use the pound”.

Unionists and journalists are now frantically spinning that they’d never denied such a thing. But we know that’s not true, and nobody got left with more egg on their face than Mr Darling’s supposed superior, Scottish Labour “leader” Johann Lamont.

lamontpound

That’s a leaflet that was popping through voters’ letterboxes yesterday. It couldn’t be any more unambiguously phrased – “No-one knows what the currency will be but it won’t be the pound. And it was backed up by one from the UK government that’s arriving all over Scotland this morning:

leavingpound

“Leaving the UK means leaving the pound.” Fairly unequivocal, we’d say.

And it’s not the first time we’ve heard that message, of course.

goodbyepound

“If we leave the UK we lose the UK pound”. Not a lot of room for interpretation there.

(And you can’t try to wriggle out by claiming that “UK pound” is a semantic formulation that actually means a currency union, because the leaflet talks of “changing money” for cross-border trade, which wouldn’t happen with “sterlingisation”.)

lose2

“LEAVE THE UK, LOSE THE UK POUND”. What could it possibly mean?

positivep

Where “the only way” clearly means “just one of the possible ways”, of course.

walkaway13

“We can’t use the pound without agreement” pretty much annihilates any last lingering shred of doubt about whether “keep the pound” only refers specifically to a formal currency union.

And then there was this from the BBC:

“Yes vote means leaving pound, says Osborne”

And this in the Telegraph:

“Major: Scottish independence means ‘walking away’ from the pound”

And this from Scottish Labour:

“It is now clear the only way to keep the pound is to keep the UK”

And this from “Better Together” itself:

“You can have independence or the pound. You cannot have both.”

We could, frankly, go on all day. “Better Together” and its friends have spent the last two years straining to convince the Scottish people that a Yes vote means losing the pound. Last night Alistair Darling was finally forced to admit openly in public – in front of a huge TV audience, not the tiny handful of politics nerds like us who watch Scotland Tonight or Scotland 2014 – that they’ve been lying the whole time.

It’s a shame he didn’t at least keep his “leader” up to date.

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    3 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 26 08 14 13:10

      Out of the loop | Scottish Independence News

    2. 29 08 14 21:57

      48 Lies | A Wilderness of Peace

    3. 27 03 17 18:04

      Round and Around the Pound We Go | A Wilderness of Peace

    200 to “Out of the loop”

    1. handclapping says:

      This is a case of the left hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

    2. Murray McCallum says:

      Even the BBC’s Nick Robinson tweeted:

      Nick Robinson @bbcnickrobinson · 15h
      Darling will regret saying “Of course we could use the £” even though he added it’d be a mistake for an indy Scotland to do so

      I guess better together no thanks will simply say that Nick is a typical cybernat.

    3. Mary Bruce says:

      Their entire campaign has been built on a massive lie. Alistair Darling confirmed this himself last night.

    4. handclapping says:

      Do you think Cameron is kicking himself that he didn’t take on the challenge of debating the FM or is he working out how to spin that he let a subsidised Scotland go to save England from the fate of having a Labour Government ever again?

      Who knows, even now Darling could be replaced and everything he said rubbished as the real leader of the (insert current name here) campaign, Call Me Dave, rides to the rescue and tells us not to go ‘cos he loves us and we’d get to use the pound, and keep the debt.

    5. Nobby Power says:

      It’s the cracks in the plaster showing. Hope the wall gives out altogether.

    6. paul gerard mccormack says:

      All wonderful stuff, but for me one of the most telling moments (among many) was when ‘Davros’ Darling was reduced to saying – ‘i’m a politician, a labour party politician’ and you could ‘feel’ the tumbleweed drift across the telly screen. How out of touch is this dalek? The labour party in Scotland as currently constituted are a disgrace, a guaranteed vote loser. Long live the Republic!

    7. Luigi says:

      Aye, the whole, rotten BT currency argument against independence certainly took a real pounding last night.

      The tangled web is unravelling fast.

    8. Free Scotland says:

      IT’S A KNOCKOUT

      Freudian slip by Hayley Millar on Good Morning Scotland today as she misread her notes and then hastily corrected herself:

      “Last night saw the second of the presidential-style debates between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling. It was nothing if not a KNOCKOUT … eh a knock-about debate, both men clashing over currency etc. etc. …”

      Heard it at 7:09 a.m., that’s 01:09 in if you listen on the BBC iPlayer.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04fc4gy

    9. joe kane says:

      The A-bomb goes off again.
      Last time it only destroyed the UK economy.
      This time its destroyed the United Kingdom altogether.

    10. Macart says:

      Hundreds of man hours and possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds in broadcast and print publicity brought to a crashing halt in front of a live TV audience. The very strategy touted to have been conceived by Alistair Darling himself totally discredited by his own admission and better yet, HMG folded neatly in to the same discredited package.

      We’ve gone beyond train wreck and right into natural disaster at this point.

    11. FatCandy says:

      Belter.

    12. gillie says:

      The BIG LIE over currency has been exposed for all to see.

      The No campaign must be spitting blood at Alistair Darling’s fatal mistake live on TV.

    13. I think Johann Lamont’s quotation is the most damaging. Not genetically modified to make our own decisions and NOT using the pound under any circumstances. She must be an embarrassment and a political dead duck by now. Hang up your boots Johann —- don’t forget to do the challenge first 😀

    14. MajorBloodnok says:

      @ handclapping says: This is a case of the left hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

      On the ‘other hand’ we know they’re all wankers.

    15. Jim Marshall says:

      YES had a great night as Alex Salmond and members of the audience wiped the floor with Flipper, but don”t let”s get swept away in a wave of euphoria. This is not won yet and we must keep making the case for independence to the voting public up until Sep 18th. If we do that we will win.

    16. north chiel says:

      Just a pity that A S did not have a copy of the “Johann leaflet” with him to tell all present on stage and the television viewers that he had” just received this communication through his letterbox earlier today”

    17. John Russell says:

      Cameron not debating means if there is a yes vote he can simply wash his hands of the sorry mess and blame A darling.

    18. Proud Cybernat says:

      Finally the truth outs (well, at least some of it). Darling–a car crash on stilts.

      http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/indyref/images/Scotalnds-Pound.jpg

      http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/indyref/images/Hello.jpg

    19. G H Graham says:

      Aye, the semantics, eh?

      Today’s lie is “We meant the UK Pound, not the Pound.”

      It’s all bollocks of course. They’ve been screaming at the electorate for months that Scots won’t be able to keep/use the Pound.

      Osborne in January couldn’t have been clearer and the unionist parties jumped on the bandwagon delighted to be on the telly the very next day demonstrating currency solidarity.

      Sure, recent leaks from Westminster suggested otherwise but nothing was as revealing as Darling’s “confession” last night when he blew the lid off his own pressure cooker.

    20. Proud Cybernat says:

      Just another example of Labour politicians saying one thing in public and another thing in public.

    21. P.R.D. says:

      But that is the deceitful and counterfactual politics that the UK has been governed by for decades. Scottish political society should never have been a party to such delusions, an independent Scotland should take fair warning and be honest with the political realities.

    22. JLT says:

      The thing is, all these statements are literally from the Scottish Labour camp. Hell, even Osborne can squirm out of his statement because he can blame it all on Darling by saying, ‘he told me so!’ (I do believe Darling ‘advised’ Osborne before he made his wee ‘Sermon on the Pound).

      I think last night was a turning point. I think last night will push Yes beyond 50%. I think last night, we saw the end of Better Together, and especially, the current form of the Scottish Labour Party.

      I think last night was a wee key moment in Scottish History.

    23. bookie from hell says:

      It was a BBC presenter who nailed him,all the better

      Then Salmond came in to finish him off.

      Also noticed Darling said thru-out debate—If you want to vote for HIM,never Scotland

    24. call me dave says:

      handclapping

      That’s so true, nobody in charge of anything!

      No co-ordination for ‘better together’except by the papers and the BBC, they are the NO campaign. Scottish labour don’t exist and real labour don’t have a message that resonates with the people any more.

      Working for the tory troughers in business and the UK government for what, more austerity, inequality.Aye right

      I’ll trust them NOT.

    25. Luigi says:

      handclapping says:

      Do you think Cameron is kicking himself that he didn’t take on the challenge of debating the FM or is he working out how to spin that he let a subsidised Scotland go to save England from the fate of having a Labour Government ever again?

      Who knows, even now Darling could be replaced and everything he said rubbished as the real leader of the (insert current name here) campaign, Call Me Dave, rides to the rescue and tells us not to go ‘cos he loves us and we’d get to use the pound, and keep the debt.

      AD’s spectacular crash last night has created a real dilemma for Cameron and Milliband. What to do? Do they now get involved, and share the blame if Scotland votes YES? Or do they steer clear and leave their pal Darling to go down in history as the chump who lost the union? Either way, we are now in highest order stakes territory.

      So, what is it to be, gentlemen? One last glorious charge north of the border by the Lightweight Brigade, go down fighting? Or, just slink away, hide in the shadows until it is all over, pick up the pieces and face the wrath of an English electorate in shock?

      If Cameron does charge north, the first charge against him will be to question why he never debated with Salmond? Wasn’t it a “matter for the scots”?

      Nigel Farage must be licking his lips this morning.

    26. MajorBloodnok says:

      Brilliant also that this was broadcast throughout the UK – and Salmond used this to effect when talking about the NHS. But yes, BT’s main line of attack just crumbles away – what do they have left?

      Anyway, yesterday’s debate just spurs me on to get out there and complete my canvassing run. Fire in the belly and all that. No complacency here.

    27. alistair says:

      We will now get all the usual – “with a currency union budgets, interest rates, borrowing… will all be set by a foreign country”, as if we will have no say in the negotiation of the terms of the union nor setting our own budgets/borrowing within the terms of said agreement. In other words that’s not independence so why vote for it. – just like the other 189 (I think AS said) “non-independent” countries who have a currency agreement (oh, and Germany is the only independent country in Europe as well….)

    28. Chic McGregor says:

      The UK Government propaganda also contains the lie “all three pro-UK parties”. Wonder why they don’t include UKIP? (I don’t really).

    29. Mary Bruce says:

      The thing is, they are STILL all at it even now, bleating “We don’t even know what currency we will use.” One of the guests on Sarah Smith’s show after the debate said it. God knows what debate she was watching, it definitely wasn’t the one the rest of us were.

      Hopefully from now on whenever one of them makes this claim the whole of Scotland will just dismiss them as a dishonest liar.

    30. Chic McGregor says:

      oops didn’t close bold properly sorry.

    31. Famous15 says:

      As every eight year old knows “Of course we could use the pound”

    32. McHaggis says:

      All I am reading all over newspaper and other forums is, “we NEVER said you wouldnt be able to use the pound”…

      Once lie compounding on top of another. It really is never ending.

    33. Ravelin says:

      The longer you try to keep up a lie the more likely it’s going to be exposed as such. Better Together haven’t just been trying to keep up the lie about losing the pound, they’ve largely based their whole strategy around it and banged on about it constantly. I don’t think Darling’s admission that we could keep it (as we all knew) is going to be a knockout blow but it’s at least likely to be hugely damaging.

    34. faolie says:

      Hang on. Johann Lamont’s their leader? Well, who knew?

    35. Peter Macbeastie says:

      ‘No, no, he meant you shouldn’t use the pound outside a currency deal, which we’re not going to give you. Then you’ll be like Panama with no lender of last resort.’

      Aye, Panama. Which appears to have an exceptionally stable, risk averse banking structure and a steady economy. The very absence of a safety net while using the US dollar taught them to be cautious. You could very well argue that the presence of this safety net in the UK encouraged the banks to take risks because they’d be deemed to large to fail and would be saved using taxpayers money.

      So, just like Panama, except with the largest oil reserves in the North Atlantic off our shores. And I think we’ve all seen pictures of Panama City lately; it’s not exactly what you’d call a shanty town.

    36. Tackety Beets says:

      We all know that for people who “fib” or tell lies , they must always remember all their lies ! BT are now the far all to see a JOKE ! So now then BT tell why should we VOTE NO ? To support WM in all they say and all they do ! Thats exactly what a NO vote is ! We must get this thro . You can here it now if it end NO DC will “craw” on for weeks / months about how much WM is loved by Scotland FFS ……1966 has finally gone quiet !

    37. Jim says:

      Luigi says:
      Aye, the whole, rotten BT currency argument against independence certainly took a real “pounding” last night.

      The tangled web is unravelling fast.
      _____
      Pardon the pun lol

    38. Ananurhing says:

      Darling certainly blinked first, then blinked again, and again….

      I loved Salmond’s casual aside to Darling, ” Stay calm.”

    39. Free Scotland says:

      If I were editor of a newspaper, today’s front-page headline would be: FLIP FLOP!

    40. Matt says:

      We can use any currency we want post-independence but that’s always been true. Those leaflets there are full of lies but nothing Darling said was very interesting. Westminster’s policy is ‘no currency union’, he didn’t contradict that.

      We’ll use the pound if we want but there’s no point if we have no control over it. We’d be completely at the mercy of the British economy and the Bank of England. Completely. We don’t want this, we don’t want currency union. God knows why we’re even saying we want it. If we want true independence it means independence from the British economy. That means no pound and no currency union. I do not understand why people even want it. Becoming independent just to give control of our economy back to another country. Why?

    41. Stuart Martin says:

      The currency is the only major card the BTand No thanks campaign has to play and now the truth is out I still think there will be too many no voters blinkered by the lies and continue to vote no. Time and time again questions have been answered and facts stated but still the zombies don’t see the lies they are being told. British government has been on a downward spiral for decades,why is it all of a sudden a preferred option to be part of? Ludacris.

    42. alexicon says:

      Ed Balls is in a lying mood today also with his claim that Scotland would have to join the euro.
      Looks like there is a concerted campaign by the unionists to stick with the currency subject and not the privatisation of our NHS.
      Guess what one I’ll be highlighting at every turn?

    43. Dcanmore says:

      I can safely say that most of my English colleagues here in London believe that independence is a foregone conclusion, they’re just waiting for it to happen now.

    44. desimond says:

      ‘We could, frankly, go on all day’

      In the words of Mrs Doyle….

      GO ON!
      GO ON!!
      GO ON!!!
      GO ON!!!!
      GO ON!!!!!

    45. TheGreatBaldo says:

      As satisfying as last night was….

      Worthwhile remember that after the last debate that Darling ‘won’, No got a temp bump in the polls, gloated and then the YES vote.

      Let’s celebrate last nights…victory, nah scratch that rout.

      But lets not fall into the same trap

      Lets get refocused and back to business

    46. fred blogger says:

      the lamont leaflet is unambiguous.
      their feet must be painful this morning, poor things.
      🙂

    47. TYRAN says:

      When’s the next one? Can’t wait!

    48. desimond says:

      The only question I felt that was left unanswered after last nights debate was :

      ‘Who will Blair MacDougall offer his services to in a leadership campaign for the new Labour in Scotland Party?

      a: Jim Murphy
      b: Mags Curran
      c: Anas Sarwar

    49. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      Three quotes by the FM during last night’s debate shows he won.

      http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/scottish-independence/8733.article

    50. G H Graham says:

      On 7/4/11 Alistair “Flipper” Darling was paid £10,200 for addressing a dinner organised by Cinven – a leading buyout firm of 25 private hospitals.

      Source: http://www.cwunorthwest.org/docs/News2012/DespiteProtestationLabourMPsProfitFromNHSPrivatisation.html

      Socialist my arse.

    51. HandandShrimp says:

      I’ve taken a couple of the Labour Naysayers to task for the appalling way they talk about Panama. Talk about racist undertones.

    52. PeeGee says:

      Laura Q: “I will vote No. I live in the Scottish Borders and travel every day into England. What money will I use? Will I need a pass to get into England? This vote is forever, not just a few years.”

      Taken from the BBBC Scotland newspage right this very second. Seems like some of them are still pushing the lie.

    53. Chic McGregor says:

      He also produced the Rev.’s predicted lie about Panama needing to run a surplus.

    54. BuckieBraes says:

      The Scottish Government has to safeguard its negotiating position on currency – I understand that – but the resulting unwillingness to dwell on the alternatives to a currency union is not particularly helpful.

      Amid all the politico-speak regarding ‘Plan B’, the No campaign has achieved a measure of success due to the resulting – and baffling – lack of clarity about the fact that Scotland shall be using the pound. Its aim, of course, has been to frighten badly informed people into believing they literally won’t have any money in their pockets after independence.

      Politicians play politics; but this referendum is about all of us.

      The answer? Leave the SG to do what politicians do, and position itself for the currency union deal, while those of us who are not party aligned Yes supporters can get on with simply explaining the other currency options to people on an individual level, in a way the SNP is not in a position to do.

    55. Macart says:

      I’m parking my bike and pup tent outside the polling station day before the vote. No complacency. Get up and get in there early on the day. Beg steal or borrow a ride if you have to and if you know someone who needs a hand to get there, make the offer.

      Let’s do this and let’s make it count.

    56. desimond says:

      That reminds me…

      I spoke to a prominent SNP member recently who told me they believed that current Labour MPs have missed the chance to get onto any MSP listings.

      Can anyone confirm this?
      I presume emergency processes will be called upon at Scottish Labour when a YES vote comes in but the thought of those useless Labour MPs all shitting it after last nights debate really does make me smile.

    57. Chic McGregor says:

      @desimond

      “The only question I felt that was left unanswered after last nights debate was :

      ‘Who will Blair MacDougall offer his services to in a leadership campaign for the new Labour in Scotland Party?

      a: Jim Murphy
      b: Mags Curran
      c: Anas Sarwar”

      OK I’ll bite.

      Is that Eeny,Meeny, Minny, Mo or Curly, Larry and Moe.?

    58. Wings Over Reality says:

      1) Who has said Scotland could not use the pound without a currency union?

      2) What does the Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group think of it?

      3) Why is not mentioned in the White Paper (clue, it’s to do with the answer to 2)?

      You could only make it up if you were making it up as you went along.

    59. themadmurph says:

      loving this. It’s one of those things I’ve been trying to explain to people on the streets and at doors for months (going as far as explaining what the Forex is).

      Direct from the donkey’s mouth “of course you can use the pound”!

      Happy days!

    60. muttley79 says:

      @HandandShrimp

      I’ve taken a couple of the Labour Naysayers to task for the appalling way they talk about Panama. Talk about racist undertones.

      Oh come on! The international socialist credentials of Darling, Dugdale, Curran, Murphy, Alexander etc and their supporters cannot be questioned! 😀 😀

    61. Wee Jonny says:

      Ha. It was just a wee while ago four BT supporters were in the City Square in Dundee for a photo shoot with their “Goodbye” cards. Can imagine them running aroond their hoses last night trying to find them so they can be binned. Ha. Their were gona be kept for posterity but no noo.

    62. Midgehunter says:

      Those few seconds where AD spewed out the truth, irreversably destroyed the whole BT argument(?) of the last 2 years regarding currency.

      The wider implication is that their credibility has now been shot to peices. Everyone, DKs/Nos, can and should ask themselves, if they’ve been feeding us guff about the currency, what other whoppers have they been telling us about the NHS – pensions – defence – taxation etc.

      Just how credible is the Beeb now? The whole UK saw the debate and should be able to distinguish between what they saw and what the Beeb is desperate to rewrite. 😉

    63. desimond says:

      Seems only a few days ago I was watching a smiling Johann Lamont leave the Sir Chris Joy Arena after watching her smiling while she stood behind a ranting Gordon Brown.

      With each and every day, she fades more and more into obscurity.

      I await the day shes known as The wife of the Lord Provost.

    64. Colin says:

      @Peter Macbeastie

      And that is exactly what the Adam Smith institute says Scotland should do. Using the pound without a CU would be more benificial for us.

    65. Doug Daniel says:

      I expect the line will be “we only said you couldn’t be independent and keep the pound – that’s not proper independence”, or some such pish.

    66. Steve B says:

      @desimond

      I think this is what you’re referring to:

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/burning-the-lifeboats/

    67. desimond says:

      BBC24 showing Alastair at a Paisley workplace this morning

      “Do you think you lost Mr Darling?”

      I cant believe they dared ask that question!

    68. liz says:

      The bit I loved when Darling was floundering was when he looked at Glen Campbell in a ‘help me Rhona’ kind of way and said ‘this is impossible.

    69. goulashman says:

      When lying becomes a basic characteristic of a politic, in this case the Tory/castrated Labour ‘inspired’ NO Campaign, the tissue thus created becomes more and more vulnerable to disintegration under the cold splash of truth. Currency, oil, economy – the hysterical NO-saying is losing its voice despite being cranked up by the BBC and MSM. O happy days:)!

    70. Another Union Dividend says:

      The no Central Bank argument is another BT scare story about to rise its head.

      Apart from the fact that new regulations will limit the City of London casino banking that led to the crash, a Central Bank “lender of last resort” is a myth as it is only as good as the government of the day which is the ultimate lender of last resort.

      As the Financial Times said, even without oil , Scotland is one of the richest countries in the world, and Scotland has £1500 billion of oil revenues to flow through its economy.

      No Currency Union means no share of RuK’s debts and remember 190 countries in the world use their own currency including Sweden whose Handelsbaken is expanding its banking operations in Edinburgh.

    71. David says:

      When you promote a lie as fundamental as this “no pound” lie it’s bound to unravel and thank goodness it has fully done so before Sep 18th. Darling’s “game changer” tactic now withering away.

    72. davidb says:

      Please don’t crow. Hubris cost Kinocchio his election a few years ago. Be happy inside that the First Minister is back on form. But we still have a referendum to win.

    73. Stevie boy says:

      … AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!!

    74. Stevie boy says:

      Brilliant.. and on live national tv.. even the BBC couldn’t edit that one out!!!

    75. liz says:

      Nice try Wings over Unreality – take a look at the poster above straight out of the mouth of one Jo La La.

    76. Roberto Esquierdo says:

      That once great ship Britannia has been torpedoed below the water line and is sinking fast . For those still on board we have plenty of room in the lifeboats and you are welcome to join us

    77. YESGUY says:

      Attention all Wingers.

      The Libations have recorded “Caledonia” and have it for sale on iTunes and Amazon with all the proceeds going to food banks throughout Scotland.

      The song is a positive message to everyone and could do with a wee push to really get the ball rolling .

      The song is at number 11 in the charts an i am asking ALL Wingers to please buy the song not just for charitable reasons , but to get a Scottish song at NO 1 and played on national radio.

      I also wrote to Stu asking him to give it a wee spot on the biggest and best pro-indi site in the world. If anyone can get in touch a show a wee bit support it might be enough for Stu and we can get a Scottish song at NO1 belting out the radio on the run up to the referendum.

      79p for the song and all money goes to food banks. 79p and we can have every radio station in Scotland playing oor song.

      Wingers your generosity it legendary please buy the song and tell Stu it’s a positive song for the re birth of Scotland.

      https://www.facebook.com/TheLibationsBand/timeline

      https://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/id903053335

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/Caledonia/dp/B00M85FWNA/ref=sr_1_1?s=dmusic&ie=UTF8&qid=1406726704&sr=1-1&keywords=caledonia+libations

      Thank you Wingers.

    78. Barontorc says:

      Sorry for this being so long Rev, but it has to be said. I got the BT leaflet through the letterbox this morning and it’s a real gamechanger for many DKs, even if only to make sure good old Archie gets his long awaited gong.

      Pensioner Pat, (remember her,)is worried sick that it’s oil that will pay her pension and all her benefits and it’s sure to run out, what will she then do?

      Then David, the retired cop, is happy to know that over 63 million people across the UK are paying into the ‘pension pot’. Really?

      There are about 62 million people in the UK. Official figures break down as follows:

      12 million under the age of 16, 14 million over retirement age,
      36 million of working age and the official workforce figure is 33 million with 3 million unable to work or claiming long term benefits, which brings the 63 million down to 33 million and of the 33 million nearly 2 million are unemployed, leaving 31 million, so the UK is now at the point where 50% of the population is working and 50% is not.

      I’d bet he isn’t paying a penny into the pot now he’s retired alongside the other 32 million UKers who are all taking their whack out of the same ‘pot’.

      Then the Midgley family think that the £1200 per head spent here in Scotland more than England is a bargain, but what they don’t realise is that Scotland is sending £1700 per head down to Westminster and they are charging us £500 per head for the privilege.

      Craig the shipbuilder feels he’s clinging on with his fingertips depending on tit-bits being tossed his way by the MOD and he’s absolutely right to feel that way. So much for the 300 year old ‘better-together’ deal he’s stuck with. Don’t you think he really needs to broaden his horizons.

      As for what Tesco charges its customers in Ireland or who’s going to blink first and stick up interest rates is anybody’s guess, unless that is you’re Mr Tesco or Mr Mortgage man, they’ll do what they bloody well like, as and when it suits them.

      And sure, the Scottish Parliament has FULL POWERS over what it spends, but it’s just a tad too bad that they can only spend what Westminster sends them and even that’s to get another massive chop to pay for big English boys’ toys, not to mention getting dragged into fights we don’t need to be in.

      So, a NO vote will give us the best of both worlds, but we’re talking THIRD WORLD standards here; HUGE NATIONAL UK DEBT, CORRUPTION EVERYWHERE, FOOD BANKS, HOMELESSNESS, WORRY, AND WERE TOLD THERE’S WORSE TO COME.

      So, good for you Archie, the NO gong list is being drawn up as we speak, but when you really think about the future for the children and their children, try and face the facts and don’t be a completely selfish numpty.

    79. bjsalba says:

      I have a leaflet in front of me that I got just yesterday.

      It says: Leaving the UK means leaving the pound. We can’t leave the UK but keep the Joint bank account. etc etc
      The last line says Why would we want to take the risk of losing the pound?

      If they say they didn’t say it then there there must be something seriously wrong with my eyesight. I should go to an optician, but that will have to wait until after the 18th as I’m way too busy door-knocking for YES.

    80. Macart says:

      Just been round to the local YES shop to pick up more badges and make another wee donation. The lovely ladies standing post were telling me they’ve been run off their feet this morning. Lots of questions and chat about last night’s debate. Real smiley faced mood in the air. 🙂

    81. JimF says:

      I haven’t seen any objections to the use of Panama=Darien=Bankruptcy by MSM as a pretty close mimic of Orwell’s doublethink.
      It’s really irritating being treated as sheep.
      Is anyone documenting these attempted manipulations?

    82. MajorBloodnok says:

      Listening to that recording again I think it is brilliant that it was actually Glen Campbell, of the BBC itself, that asked the fateful question “Can’t we use the pound anyway?” to which AD replies “Of course we could use the pound”. That’s Glen getting his jotters too.

    83. Colin says:

      @ JimF

      “Is anyone documenting these attempted manipulations?”

      That would be some size of a book.

    84. bunter says:

      E Bradford on BBC Scotland monstering the Scottish NHS again.

    85. newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/6083-labour-mp-jim-murphy-caught-up-in-new-expenses-row

      Jim Murphy expenses

    86. PeeGee says:

      Mad ranting londoner Darling still spouting lies on the TV. Apparently we need answers as to who is going to pay for the NHS. He…Salmond (spit!) Won’t tell us.

      And some people complain about calling these scum ("Tractor" - Ed)s and Quislings. What the fuck are they then? Patriots? Lovers of Scotland? Or rabid Scotophobes desperate to hold on to their delusions of Britnat grandeur?

    87. desimond says:

      @YESGUY

      Is there a Youtube video for this?

      I would be happy to post your piece above on etims.net too

    88. gerry parker says:

      @ Desimond
      “I await the day shes known as The wife of the Lord Provost.”

      I await the day she’s known as the wife of the former lord provost.

      🙂

    89. Kenny Campbell says:

      No official CU, use the pound and bin the debt. What is not to like and you can also blame Westminster for blocking it.

    90. packhorse pete says:

      @G H Graham
      “On 7/4/11 Alistair “Flipper” Darling was paid £10,200 for addressing a dinner organised by Cinven – a leading buyout firm of 25 private hospitals.

      Source: http://www.cwunorthwest.org/docs/News2012/DespiteProtestationLabourMPsProfitFromNHSPrivatisation.html

      Socialist my arse”

      Thanks for this – great stuff, which I’ll circulate widely.

    91. desimond says:

      @gerry parker

      If only I had such patience 🙂

    92. MajorBloodnok says:

      @gerry parker says @Desimond says: “I await the day shes known as The wife of the Lord Provost.” I await the day she’s known as the wife of the former lord provost.

      Well, I await the day that she’s known as the one that no one knows who she is. Wait, who is she anyway?

    93. Devorgilla says:

      Looking at all the post-debate coverage this morning I was struck by the fact that the ‘don’t knows’ interviewed by the BBC still ‘don’t know’ after the debate. They are still hung up on narrow economic arguments and not basic principles. Will I be better off, can we really use the £, how much oil is there. Plus, none of them seemed to have much Scottish identity. I wonder if this is related? Or did the Beeb just home in on such people as outsiders with no affinity to Scotland? I which case, I don’t see a lot of point in concentrating late stage campaigning energy on them; they are probably going to vote No, out of any really compelling reason to vote Yes. The main reason to vote Yes being that you identify with Scotland’s future and are committed to this place. Whatever your origin.

      I see more hope in bringing Noes over to Yes, as I know has been happening. Trident, social justice, and the NHS are the most persuasive issues with the Noes.

    94. JWil says:

      The interview on Scotland 2104 last night had Nicola Sturgeon and Douglas Alexander in the BBC Scotland studio.

      After Nicola Sturgeon had say patiently waiting for Alexander to have his say, Alexander sat making grimaces as Nicola took his arguments apart.

      Anyone seeing him would wonder what kind of person he is. He gets more and more obnoxious by the day.

    95. Brian says:

      I was hoping that Mr Salmond would quell once and for
      all the negative propaganda,regarding currency and that even in the event of a no currency agreement the pound will still be used and the pound will still be in everyones’ pocket.
      Ireland gained its indepependence in August 1927…
      A currency Commission was established 5 years later to cover
      note issue.. A Central Bank was established many years later
      Independent Scotland can take its time establishing itself
      and then set up it’s own Central Bank of Scotland
      He did exactly as I hoped he would to reassure those with
      doubts re the currency problem

    96. Scotsbob says:

      Since wee Johann couldn’t get anything right in an interview she has been kept in the background. Will the same thing now happen with Darling?

    97. haud on the noo says:

      And it all falls into place…


      Boris Johnson confirms Uxbridge as target seat
      Breaking news
      Boris Johnson is seeking to become MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, in West London, at next year’s general election.

    98. JWil says:

      Listening to the radio this morning, Blair McDougall (the ‘say NO’ Blair) was rattling on about Trident. He said that the money saved from it can only be spent once.

      Someone needs to hit this argument on the head.

      The upkeep of Trident and any revisions to it’s systems are being paid for continuously, much of it by Scottish tax payers. Then there will be a proportion of the national debt and its interest charges which can also be put down to having Trident. There will also be, I assume, money being paid to the Americans for their part in maintaining the system.

      So to be rid of Trident in an independent Scotland would mean continuous and long term saving of tax payers money which can be used for other things.

      McDougall’s other argument was that it would be unfair for Scots to expect others to take on Trident. Doh!

    99. Gary says:

      So EVERYTHING they say is a lie? (Fourth time I’ve said it today). Having hung their hat on this they have now been hoisted by their own petard, again! Either they have a VERY cunning plan or they’re EXCEPTIONALLY stupid, whaddya think??

    100. desimond says:

      @JWil

      Money from oil – once – bad
      Money from defence savings – once – bad

      No Money from tax avoiders – never – good

    101. Clootie says:

      I love the new video issued by YesScotland today.
      A repeat loop of Alistair Darling saying “of course Scotland can use the Pound…”

    102. JWil says:

      The media are culpable for fooling the public over the right of Scotland to use the pound. They have deliberately confused its use under a currency union with its use as a tradeable currency that any country can use.

      Darling is still trying to compare Scotland with Panama. There is no disreputable argument he will not use to get his way.

    103. Dr Ew says:

      The new Doctor phones Alistair Darling:
      “Well half an hour ago you were in with a shot! This is half an hour hence! We’ve fucking time-travelled, yes? We’re in a weird and wonderful world where everything is different! Maybe, outside, the polar ice caps have melted, maybe there’s fucking robots knocking about and Davina McCall’s the new Pope! Maybe, you can download rice! I want you, right now, to think about your future, okay?”

    104. goulashman says:

      A NO victory – A NO future – far right enduring Westminster Government, possibly under Boris Johnson ( he’s so cute and funny! Don’t you just LOVE his hair!), with a determined hatred of all that ‘Scotland’ stands for. A Scotland then drained of hope, resource, character and with a society disabled by a cruel imposed far right ideology. The Last Chance Saloon choice is as big as that.

    105. desimond says:

      @Clootie

      The next version has “To pay for your health costs” added at the end.

      That reminds me, any graphics folks out there, wee gag idea

      THE EXPENDABLES (201)4

      cue rip off of current movie poster but with all the faces and names of all the horrible Westminster lovers that we wont miss from our lives one bit!

    106. Onwards says:

      BBC with ANOTHER Have Your Say section for English voters to lay into Salmond.

      More damage control !!

    107. ”Blair McDougall (the ‘say NO’ Blair) was rattling on about Trident. He said that the money saved from it can only be spent once.”

      Well that’s £4bn per year for 20 years according to Darling’s statement las night.

    108. Wake up Labour before it’s too late.
      When we gain Independence there will be an election and your actions in this debate will not be forgotten in a hurry.
      Why you ever got involved so heavily in t
      his debate is truly astounding.You have been duped by a Tory Government into being the public face of this campaign. your credibility in Scotland will be tarnished for years to come.
      Do you not realise that you could be the next government of Scotland?

    109. Sandra Wilson says:

      Give them enough rope.

    110. Hewitt83 says:

      For any Unionists still screaming for Plan Beeeeeeeeeeee!

      Here is the quote from last night. A Plan B, C & D.

      “We could have a Scottish currency. We could have a flexible currency like Sweden or Norway has. We could have a fixed rate Scottish pound attached to the pound sterling. That’s what Denmark does with the euro and Hong Kong does with the dollar,”

      They have nothing else apart from this Plan B nonsense so get this quote out far and wide.

    111. YESGUY says:

      Desimond.

      You tube link to the Libations singing Caledonia.

      //youtu.be/fMvboi_Wzc8

      The lads sang the song up and down Leith Walk on Saturday in pubs an cafe’s and it was great to hear the listeners join in the Chorus,

      All help appreciated folks. Your magic

    112. Rock says:

      Let alone humans, is there any dog or cat left in Scotland who knows the capital and flag but still doesn’t know the currency of independent Scotland?

    113. Chic McGregor says:

      @Desimond
      Great rendition, I downloaded it the day it was released.

    114. Danny 90 says:

      A yes vote is a vote for independence alone – it is not a vote for Salmond, or the SNP, or any of their policies – including currency union.

      So why did Salmond insist in the debate last night that a yes vote would give him a ‘mandate’ from the Scottish people for a currency union?

      The yes campaign have been working hard to try to show undecided voters that a yes vote isn’t a vote for Salmond or his party or its policies – Salmond’s insistence to the contrary last night has destroyed all that hard work.

    115. Well I suppose with the panto season approaching Johann could always get a gig as an understudy to Janette Kranky ……..
      …’Fandabadozy’.

    116. Colin says:

      @ Rock says:

      “Let alone humans, is there any dog or cat left in Scotland who knows the capital and flag but still doesn’t know the currency of independent Scotland?”

      My Bengal knows the flag and the pound, and he doesn’t even speak English.

    117. creag an tuirc says:

      Darling last night. AS: “How many children are living in poverty?” AD: “inaudible mumble” he doesn’t know yet he proclaims we’re better together. What a fud

    118. Craig P says:

      The union has become like a chronic food intolerance. You don’t even realise you are being held back until you stop taking the poison and your body suddenly has more energy and functions better. We are all so used to how things have aye been that independence will open many delighted, currently no eyes.

      We just need to get over the line ahead…

    119. YESGUY says:

      Wings over reality

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

      Oh My sides…………….

      We watched the BT/OKOK/VNOBORDERS/NOFUCKINTHANKS fail.

      LIVE throughout the whole of the UK and the world.

      LIVE – AS IT HAPPENED – REAL TIME.

      Game , set and match.

      hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhah

      P.S I know never feed the trolls but this time we all can have a wee laugh. Years of shite and abuse and now their credibility has nose dived.

      And it’s only fair the troll gets a “reality check” to ensure he’s on the losing side.

      YES Scotland it will happen.

    120. Danny 90 says:

      Both sides are just as guilty as the other at playing on the ignorance of those who don’t understand the difference between a formal currency union – in which Scotland would remain within the UK’s currency system – and simply using the pound unofficially outside a currency union – in which Scotland would be outside the UK’s currency system.

      Better together try to suggest that not having a currency union is the same thing as not having the pound, and the SNP suggest that being able to keep the pound is the same thing as having a currency union.

    121. McTim says:

      I think except for a huge Yes majority, every other option will be a win-win for David Cameron. If it is a No victory, the Tories will benefit from this, not Labour, especially not in Scotland. If it is a narrow Yes win, Cameron can blame it on Darling and probably field off criticism from Boris and a few grumpy backbenchers. If, however, Yes wins emphatically, aka SNP in 2011, then I reckon it’ll be both Cameron and Osbourne in trouble because Gideon ultimately agreed to Flipper’s CU rejection plan. So my hunch is they’ll leave it to Flipper and Scottish Labour and the media to sort out the mess Flipper has left the No campaign in.

    122. Maybolebuddie says:

      Better Together = Don’t do joined up thinking!!

    123. Chic McGregor says:

      We shouldnae get too carried away. It was only Darling’s De Bohun moment. The real battle is still to come.

    124. handclapping says:

      @Chic
      The image of AD in a tinfoil hat with an axe in it appeals 🙂

    125. Agre with Chic McGregor.

      Never shout till the cup is in your hands.

    126. Robert Louis says:

      Chic,

      I agree. Last night was fun, but we still have a referendum to win.

      Anyway, now we know, currency – the pound. Most people have zero interest beyond that.

      The NHS – well that really worries people.

      UK media, as usual still bashing away at currency. It’s now just a distraction tactic by better together, to avoid discussing other issues. Sadly the UK media are happy to play along with them.

    127. Flooplepoop says:

      O/T a good wee list,and if you can add to it, that’d be great.

      http://i.imgur.com/5zfFcMT.jpg

    128. galamcennalath says:

      One by one their threats get so debunked that someone breaks ranks within BT and tells the truth. And now their leader has debunked the pound threat. What have they left?

      I got the impression (and the leaflets above reinforce this) that the pound was to be the cornerstone of Project Fear in the final run up. Darling screwed up big time. Could it be the losing own goal with the whistle not far off?

      It has now reached the stage, with good timing 3 weeks to go, that anytime they do try to recycle any risk again, they will just look silly. They’ve all been nicely dealt with!

    129. TJenny says:

      Flooplepoop – do you have sources you can quote to back up each entry? Otherwise folk may think it’s just made up.

    130. Greannach says:

      Terrible news! Does last night’s performance mean no Ermine and no more after dinner speeches (“Here’s your fee, sir.”) for Flipper? Tragic. How we he live in the manner to which he has grown accustomed over the generations?

    131. ronnie anderson says:

      Boris Island Airport on the Thames estury is nolonger,its deeded a the deeded parrot,there’s nae money in the chamber potty oony mair, the dasterdly Scots are spending the Poonds in Strathclyde an awe are Scotland, an nae 2 London Bridges either,HS2 is now HS0 as in obsolete.

    132. ronnie anderson says:

      One purl two purl oh fur Fsaky ave dropped a stich,ma ribs were killin me last nite ah wunner whit it wis ok back tae the knittin.

    133. Flooplepoop says:

      @TJenny
      Sorry, i don’t have sources to back them up, i’ll bow my head and apply for an MSM journalists job.

    134. Luigi says:

      The NHS – well that really worries people.

      That could be the one. Could be the one!

    135. Clootie says:

      yesscotland.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=3d8f589fda4fb7526a70254d4&id=ae7d6697ac&e=da60d84145

    136. ronnie anderson says:

      SoS ah ment tae say Darlings joined the Knitters or is that Skitters clubby.

    137. Nana Smith says:

      Oooh the smell of fear coming from the BT/no hopers is fairly stinking. Dugdale, Alexander, Curtice all scribbling away at the scotsman this afternoon.

      HAHAHA……

    138. TJenny says:

      Flpp[lepoop – shame ’cause it means we can’t really use it. I’m sure though, you’d be a shoo in at the Beeb. 🙂

    139. TJenny says:

      Flooplepoop – soz about he name typo, and is anyone else having probs refreshing pages?

      Also comment preview has disappeared but, my up arrow now looks like an up arrow again.

    140. X_Sticks says:

      JWil says:

      “Alexander sat making grimaces as Nicola took his arguments apart. Anyone seeing him would wonder what kind of person he is. He gets more and more obnoxious by the day.”

      He can see all those hard years of climbing the greasy Westminster labour pole, including having to slip his own sister the knife to save his own labour career disappearing before his very eyes. No wonder he’s scared and very rattled. Thoroughly enjoyable.

    141. cr says:

      You do realise that you can’t have the pound and complete independence… Keeping the pound would require a currency union meaning that the the bank of England Will still dictate everything to do with it, such as exchange rates, tax limits and interest rates…

    142. Jim says:

      I have just been looking at a BBC HYS, my God rUK citizens are out in force and bitter with it
      Apparently it is okay for the BBC to accept comments such as all yes voters are Nazis and hate the english.
      One comment called all European immigrants in Scotland, benefit scroungers. I reported this and got an email back saying the comment will not be removed as it did not break house rules. WTF?
      Then there are the ones calling for a boycott on Scottish products, what for, democratically voting in a referendum?
      The scum is really rising to the top on that particular HYS with everything pro Independence being voted down as soon as it is posted.
      What a bunch of bitter and twisted individuals.

    143. wingman 2020 says:

      @Jim

      I think the BBC ‘refreshed’ the original 1000 or so comments. Mostly from us guys. They seemed to vanish and we started again with the sock puppets and bigots.

    144. galamcennalath says:

      Talking of Plan Bs … if BT have no back plan to the damp squib that was Project Fear, a bit of hard work over the next 3 weeks and it looks now as if a Yes win is within grasp!

    145. Schrödinger's cat says:

      @floople
      25% of revenue from food and drink for the whole of the uk comes from whisky although none of this is counted in the gers figures! Diagio and other owners head quarters are in London , get you a link asap

    146. Jim says:

      @wingman 2020
      Yes, they were all deleted.

    147. Schrödinger's cat says:

      Flipper darling, yer tea is oot

    148. Chic McGregor says:

      @Flooplepoop
      “O/T a good wee list,and if you can add to it, that’d be great.

      http://i.imgur.com/5zfFcMT.jpg

      OK I’ll give you three biggies Aquaculture (mainly fish farming) >90% and now worth more than conventional fishing catch.

      Forestry.

      Tidal power.

    149. YESGUY says:

      Pop Over to Munguins folks.

      He has a twitter reply to Ed balls from none other than the great,great grandson of Keir Hardie. It’s a great reply but check out the yes badge on the corner of his phote

      Labour

      “Where on our way , from misery to happiness today aha haha “

    150. Karmanaut says:

      OT, relating to the new Jim Murphy expenses scandal.

      http://imgur.com/gHNQ7CZ

    151. Schrödinger's cat says:

      http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_ScotlandBillCommittee/Inquiries/Scotch_Whisky_Association.pdf

      There ya go, hope is ok, first time posted with iPad,
      Chic, I think the items need linked to respectable sources

    152. Schrödinger's cat says:

      http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_ScotlandBillCommittee/Inquiries/Scotch_Whisky_Association.pdf

      There ya go, hope is ok, first time posted with iPad,
      Chic, I think the items need linked to respectable sources

    153. Flooplepoop says:

      O/T Dr Philippa Whitford knocks the ball out of the park again.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOiFawjVsqE&list=UUryQU1dVED4DzPLdB9vQcwQ&index=3

    154. Schrödinger's cat says:

      http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.nl
      Kier hardie gig son tellin balls where to stick it, couldn’t help noticing Ross hardiest yes twibbon

    155. Auld Rock says:

      Aye Peter MacBeastie and they’re virtually rebuilding the canal, can’t be much wrong with their banking system.

      Auld Rock

    156. JWil says:

      The was a report from a right wing think tank just two weeks ago advocating that Scotland could/should use the pound without a bank of last resort to back it up as Panama is doing. Not sure of the ins and out of that for Scotland, but, in spite of Labour’s derogatory remarks about Panama, the report did say that Panama was doing rather well economically because it had to keep tight constraints on it’s spending. This is, I believe, is what Scotland and England would have to do under a currency union.

      We suffer at the moment from the results of the stacking up of huge debts care of Brown and Darling and the Tory/ LibDem coalition is not doing any better either as the debt continues to mount. Austerity is with us and it seems will be with us for a long time yet.

      This is the single most devastating thing that has happened to the country in recent history and yet Brown and Darling are getting off scot free politically.

      I cannot believe that more is nor being made of their involvement and failure with the UK economic crash. It is a curse on everyone except those who can shield themselves from its effects by having loads of cash.

    157. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “You do realise that you can’t have the pound and complete independence… Keeping the pound would require a currency union meaning that the the bank of England Will still dictate everything to do with it, such as exchange rates, tax limits and interest rates…”

      Yes, we understand that. It’s exactly the situation now, so no loss.

    158. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “the SNP suggest that being able to keep the pound is the same thing as having a currency union”

      I’m pretty sure they don’t. They keep emphasising how a CU is very much their preferred choice.

    159. Robert Peffers says:

      @Mary Bruce says: 26 August, 2014 at 12:30 pm:

      “The thing is, they are STILL all at it even now, bleating “We don’t even know what currency we will use.” One of the guests on Sarah Smith’s show after the debate said it. God knows what debate she was watching, it definitely wasn’t the one the rest of us were.”

      Well Mary, just a few minutes ago I heard BBC Radio Scotland report that David Cameron himself is claiming Salmond doesn’t know what currency Scotland will be using.

      I didn’t know Cam the bam was deaf, illiterate and couldn’t read Braille.

    160. goulashman says:

      The Unionist media spin is now in high gear through innuendo, selective interview and even the tone of voice and phrasing used in article and reporting. Channel 5 in Peebles an example

    161. IcySpark says:

      Hahaha 🙂 Just seen tonight’s Better Together referendum broadcast that will go out on both BBC and STV

      At 0.53

      “Could we keep the pound? That guy off the telly promises us we can.”

      Must have been referring to Alistair Darling LMAO

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLAewTVmkAU#t=74

    162. Caroline Corfield says:

      O/T I went looking for some substance to the Andy Burnham quote about being asked for your credit card in an English hospital – it’s quite a slippery thing, if that is indeed what he said, as there are plenty of English private hospitals where you would indeed expect to be asked for your ability to pay for your private treatment, but I did come across this:

      http://www.ouh.nhs.uk/privatehealthcare/payment/default.aspx

      Now I understand that there have been articles about the NHS keeping beds free for paying patients:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16337904

      And it’s not the same as the NHS using private hospitals to cut down on waiting times, though I suspect it will be artfully confused with it.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-28295160

      Down here, in my experience, people’s expectation is now to pay for things, they are less informed about the fact that they are in essence paying twice for something, once through taxes and once from their pocket, but they have gotten used to it, like the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

    163. Robert Peffers says:

      @Matt says: 26 August, 2014 at 12:42 pm:

      “We can use any currency we want post-independence but that’s always been true. Those leaflets there are full of lies but nothing Darling said was very interesting. Westminster’s policy is ‘no currency union’, he didn’t contradict that.

      We’ll use the pound if we want but there’s no point if we have no control over it. We’d be completely at the mercy of the British economy and the Bank of England. Completely. We don’t want this, we don’t want currency union. God knows why we’re even saying we want it. If we want true independence it means independence from the British economy. That means no pound and no currency union. I do not understand why people even want it. Becoming independent just to give control of our economy back to another country. Why?

      Correct, Matt, you very much do not understand.

    164. boris says:

      Francis Maude-Cabinet Office Minister Tells Elderly to Go on-Line or Lose Your Benefits

      1. The elderly will soon have to have to go on online or risk losing access to key government services.
      2. Refuseniks, who do not want to use computers will be able to apply for a one-off lesson to help them get on to the internet.
      3. In future the Government will only make services available over the internet, in the same way an airline sells tickets.
      4. Ministers are migrating dozens of public services onto the internet, including the carers’ allowance, (used by 3.2million carers a year), the small claims service, and Lasting Powers of Attorney, (which allow families to take control of a loved one’s financial affairs).

      The comments were greeted with dismay by groups representing the estimated five million pensioners in their 80s and 90s who have never been on the internet.

      Mr Maude was unveiling figures to an audience of civil servants at the Treasury showing the billions saved by the Government by moving Government services online. Asked by the Telegraph if all Government services would be online at some stage, he said: “Our point is that everything that can be delivered online, should be delivered online and only online.” He added: “There are some things that are physical and can’t be online. The key point is that like airlines, airlines do everything that is not physical, is not about actually flying the aeroplanes online, which is better for them and better for the passenger.”

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/10889563/Go-on-the-internet-or-lose-access-to-government-services-Francis-Maude-tells-pensioners.html#disqus_thread

    165. desimond says:

      @YESGUY

      Now posted, hope everyone else does the same

      http://etims.net/?p=5588

    166. galamcennalath says:

      YESGUY says:
      Pop Over to Munguins folks.
      He has a twitter reply to Ed balls from none other than the great,great grandson of Keir Hardie.

      Not Balls, but Miliband! Looks like Miliband didn’t actually watch the debate! We’ve news for him, his guy got thrashed and jeered.

    167. Who was to know that Bigots Together would be destroyed by their own WMD – Flipper Darkling.?
      Kinda “Ironic”.

    168. Rory says:

      Icy spark,

      “it’ll all be fine, he says, huh, I’ve heard that before” eyes widen.

      Is that sexual innuendo or just me? lol

      That video is awful, im sure people will see through it. It plays women of men, It ridicules the 16/17 year old vote (not eplicitly)it dumbs down the conversation, and it’s really really slow.

    169. Grouse Beater says:

      I detest the pound coin.

      It was forced on us by Lawson, marginally worse as a chancellor than Darling, if that’s possible.

      Americans laugh at us, our pockets bulging with heavy couns, as they shuffle dollar bills into the wallet.

      We hand over a ten pound note for a small purchase and the assisant hands you back nine – bloody nine! – pound coins and some silly pence with only the slightest of apologies.

    170. Danny 90 says:

      So now that Salmond has (more or less) come out and admitted that his plan B is to use the pound unofficially outside a currency union, I wonder if he will be able to explain why that option was emphatically rejected by his OWN fiscal commission, who pointed out its many disadvantages and rejected it as one of their recommended options?

      “there is the option for Scotland to adopt Sterling through an informal process of ‘sterlingisation’. While this option would retain some of the benefits of a formal monetary union there would also be some additional drawbacks. In this instance, the Scottish Government would have no input into governance of the monetary framework and only limited ability to provide liquidity to the financial sector – this would depend on the resources and reserves of the country. The amount of currency available would depend almost entirely on the strength of the Scottish Balance of Payments position. The two clear options for Scotland are therefore to seek to join a formal monetary union with Sterling or the Euro.”

      http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00414291.pdf

    171. Juteman says:

      Oh Danny boy. 🙂

    172. Danny 90 says:

      m

    173. Churm Rincewind says:

      Danny 90 – You are, of course, quite right. And it’s kind of sad to see two middle-aged politicians trading half-truths. It all depends on what is meant by “the pound”, and on what basis it could be the currency of an independent Scotland.

      What we actually got last night was a great deal of heat but not much light.

    174. Danny 90 says:

      “They keep emphasising how a CU is very much their preferred choice.”

      Presumably because their plan B was rejected by their own Fiscal Commission?

    175. CM says:

      I was in Panama last September and if that’s the route we were to go down (guess we won’t), then it’s no bad Plan B. Panama is thriving in business and tourism…just like Scotland!

    176. Karmanaut says:

      @Danny 90 says “I wonder if he will be able to explain why [Plan B] was emphatically rejected by his OWN fiscal commission,”

      Because a currency union is the better option. That’s why Plan B is called Plan B, instead of being called Plan A. A driver encounters a red light on his way to work. His Plan A is to wait for the light to change. His Plan B is to immediately turn around and find an alternative route. He rejects Plan B and chooses Plan A because that’s the sensible thing to do.

    177. Caroline Corfield says:

      are you quite sure rejected is the word you want to be using here?

    178. BrianW says:

      It’s weird right. The BBC Scotland Web page has been full of stories re last nights debate. They are picking it apart, highlighting certain areas, analysing it from start to finish. Brian Taylor still can’t bring himself to say Alex Salmond won that debate. Nick Robinson had no issue with stating the obvious.

      Thing is though. I’ve looked and looked, and there it not one mention of Ally D saying we can use the pound. He didn’t just blurt it out mid sentence, his admission came after direct questioning from one of their own political correspondents. They must trust Glenn’s ability or they’d never let him present such a high profile broadcast.

      The BBC are as bad as the other media outlets. They continually bring up peoples concerns about this that and the next thing. Included ALL the time is ‘What currency will we be using?’ ‘We need answers.’ And they took great delight in highlighting the currency issue from the 1st Debate.

      Well BBC Scotland. You have your answer. Ally D made his admission LIVE on your much lauded Debate. So now you have your answer. An answer made on LIVE telly on one of your own productions. Did i mention it was LIVE on telly.

      Now, when ever there is a story regarding the currency. When you’re out asking the people on the street what their concerns are and they mention the currency, you can point us all to the Admission Ally Darling made on your LIVE Broadcast. Yes that’s LIVE.

      Surly that’s how reporting works isn’t it. Reporter asks question. Interviewee answers question. Reporter reports the facts of what was said during questioning.

      Am I being naive in thinking this is it how it works?

      (Thank god I’m a Yes voter with a brain that asks questions and doesn’t blindly believe what is being churned out under the banner or Journalism)

    179. macart763m says:

      @Caroline Cornfield

      Rejected eh? Heh, good point. 🙂

      From a guy who was there.

      http://batemanbroadcasting.com/features-chat-crawford-beveridge/

    180. G H Graham says:

      Stop for a minute & think people.

      If BT are correct by saying we can’t keep the Pound, that means that the £6 billion or so sloshing around the Scottish economy including your own bank accounts must be forfeited. For something else presumably. Not Sterling though, a foreign currency.

      What would that mean beyond you lot getting more than just angry? It would mean removing about 10% of the value of all currency in the UK. And what might the implications of that be to everyone in the British Isles?

      Well there’s a reasonable chance that by quickly & significantly reducing the supply of money (Sterling) it will have a catastrophic effect upon the economy.

      Which is why the Bank of England is currently doing the exact opposite; creating money & pumping it into the economy by lending it to banks so they can lend it to businesses & individuals. This mechanism is known as “Quantative Easing”.

      So why on earth would the Bank of England wreck the economy for everyone by removing a collossal amount of money from the system at a time when it is deemed rather necessary.

      Of course, the reality is that it will do no such thing. And the politicians pretending to talk on its behalf are either thick as gloss paint or high on mind altering drugs or both.

    181. BornOptimist says:

      One of the comments below stated in relation to Alistair Darling’s faux pas, when he outright contradicted tons of posters and other print material put out by Better Together, that it was a case of ‘The Left Hand not knowing what the Right was doing.’

      It wasn’t so. It was a case of Alistair showing that he cannot cope with sustained pressure. So, if you seeing him being interviewed by the media, and he seems to be having it easy, then you know the interviewer is not doing the job properly. Alistair doesn’t have any plans B’s so it shouldn’t be too difficult to get him to commit a few more blunders over the next few weeks.

    182. liz says:

      You know BT are worried when there are so many new posters on here trying to spin what was said last night – damage limitation.

    183. John Smithmaybe says:

      What will the labour leadership in scotland look like on 19 september ? no one knows but it won’t involve johann – more’s the pity for her opponents…and she accused others this evening of lying ? that really takes some irony bypass…

    184. arranc says:

      awe my moneys under the bed

    185. Darling says we can use the pound on the tv, but I have a leaflet from Scottish Labour in which Lamont says we can’t use the pound…… how can this be?

      They’re elected public servants but one of them must be lying. I’ll hedge my bets…

      Alistair Darling, you are a liar
      Johann Lamont you are a liar

      now sue me, if you dare.

    186. Grouse Beater says:

      Danny 90: I wonder if he [Salmond] will be able to explain

      So, what’s your Plan B?

    187. JWil says:

      It seems that Eleanor Bradford of BBC Scotland has gone down the same route as Raymond Buchanan in trying to bring down or damage a Government minister. Buchanan has moved on and is now a distant memory and rightly so. As far as I am concerned he is a non-person. Hopefully Bradford will be following him soon. Bradford’s response to justified criticism about the honesty of her reports seems to be her determination to dig up even more untruths.

      The management at BBC Scotland are also culpable by allowing or encouraging one of their reporters to put themselves in this dishonest position whilst they sit back, away from the direct line of fire.

    188. Bigdrone says:

      Arse and elbow come to mind…………ooops, can I say elbow on here?

    189. Matt says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Go on then, enlighten me. Why is it better for us to become independent then hand half of our newly-won independence straight back to a UK that no longer has any democratic obligation to care about the people of Scotland? Utterly ridiculous state of affairs.

    190. Tam Doerfel Hill says:

      I find myself asking, What would the pound be worth without the assets of the North Sea Oil industry?

    191. Grouse Beater says:

      Matt to Peffers: Why is it better for us to become independent then hand half of our newly-won independence straight back to a UK

      Can’t fine your previous post, Matt, but am intrigued by what you define as ‘half our independence.’



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