The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Way back when

Posted on February 16, 2015 by

Do you remember the old days, readers? We’re talking about the far-off era of ancient history when Labour insisted that the worst, most evil, most right-wing thing that any government could do was to cut Corporation Tax, and that it was vital Scotland didn’t become independent in case that catastrophe occurred:


Obviously that means 2013 and 2014, rather than the prehistoric days of 2008, when Labour was frantically slashing the tax at every chance it got, and promising more cuts as soon as possible. And it couldn’t possibly be the current policy, because backflipping on it yet AGAIN would just be absurd, right?


We must admit, we’re having some difficulty working out the difference between “guaranteeing the most competitive rate” (good) and a “race to the bottom” (bad). It seems to us that if someone else cuts their rate and you want to keep yours the lowest, then unless someone’s changed the rules of arithmetic again you’re going to have to race them to the bottom.

It’s probably just another weird vortex anomaly. Pesky vortex.

Print Friendly

    2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 16 02 15 13:22

      Way back when | Politics Scotland |

    2. 16 02 15 13:45

      Way back when - Speymouth

    73 to “Way back when”

    1. Doug Daniel says:

      I expect we’ll be seeing Jim Murphy and co getting grilled about this in all the mainstream media channels.

      Off-topic – I just bought some magic beans and a left-handed screwdriver. Very chuffed.

    2. David says:

      Well the last nuke convoy did pass not far from Big Jim’s house so I can only assume that some catastrophe occurred and that’s when this weird vortex anomaly was created.

    3. Macart says:

      (Slaps forehead) DOH! 😀

    4. Helena Brown says:

      Labour being two faced, well I never, though they have as many faces as they have about turns.

    5. Clootie says:

      Any topic/idea/suggestion/policy:
      Labour good
      SNP bad

      Even when it is the same policy????

    6. Ricky says:

      More lies from labour.

      This lot are the biggest joke in Scotland. How can anyone think of voting for these idiots. The A&E shit is bad enough. Most nurses i know can’t understand their drive to make it look bad when they have totally screwed our Welsh cousins NHS.

      England NHS will be privatised soon.

      Ours is safe as long as SNP control Scotland.

      Attracting business means more jobs, especially for the youngers one who lack experience and training. More businesses, more Tax in our coffers, more folk working , less folk claiming dole.

      Those red tory bastards should be hung for their hypocritical drivel.

      Our politicians should be jailed for the lies they spread. Sadly they won’t. Voting them out is a must or we are in trouble big time.

      Pensioners are the Labour targets. Easily scared off anything new. But these folk are our own parents and grandparents. Everyone talk to them. get them onside and Labour die.

      I hate labour more than the tory’s. I voted for a time for them but now know they are a bunch of self serving chancers and ("Tractor" - Ed)s .

      What would happen to me if i lied and spread mis-information on a daily business anywhere else in business that was supposed to look out for our interests.

      May this year , make sure the older ones know the score. hell blackmail them if you must , use the kids, show them what future they will have if we lose again.

      Rant over .

      Fuming tho. 🙁

    7. K1 says:

      It’s just so wearisome…Vote Labour; Get Numbed Listening To Their Crap.

    8. gillie says:

      Back in Jan 2014 both Kezia Dugdale and Patricia Ferguson said that business rates should be increased and support for small businesses cut.

      So they did …….

    9. bookie from hell says:

      Daily Record

      Murphy, it has to be said, is having a substantial impact on Scottish politics.

      Like him or not, he is visible, he has set the agenda and on issues like ending the football alcohol ban he has hit the nail on the head.


    10. Grizzle McPuss says:

      Did we ever doubt that John Swinney knew what he was on about?

      Increased / retained business income from reduced Corp Tax allows businesses to invest…expand…just survive even.

      It doesn’t all go to the owners / shareholders pockets.

      But, in typical fashion…Bad SNP idea turns into Good Labour policy.

      Will there be a book big enough to include all these Lab / SLab gaffs, contradictions, lies, hypocrisy, waffle…?

    11. Craig says:

      Love the ‘vortex anomaly’ link

    12. Breastplatr says:

      I can’t possibly use any brain power on this conundrum as I’m still trying to figure out the difference between a Labour oil fund and the SNP oil fund.
      I may be some time.

    13. Desimond says:

      Have Labour pledged to cut Corporation Tax by “Any SNP cut + 1000” yet?

      And thanks for reminding me I now have to go pay my CT bill..sob sob!

    14. Davy says:

      SSSSSShhhssss, You don’t want Jim Murphy to hear about it, he will want to claim it, the same as he was claiming today on the radio he was in favor of re-introducing drinking alcohol at football grounds a long long long long time ago.

      But he just did’nt tell anyone, until now.

      Regarding hammers Stu, have you been trained to use a hammer, have you been risk-assessed to use a hammer for the purpose of killing or any other hammering skills,

      Do you actually have a hammer ? Is your hammer a right or left handed hammer ?

      Of course my hammer is bigger than yours, but Jim Murphy may claim that also.

    15. Wee Jonny says:

      Doug Daniel – “Off-topic – I just bought some magic beans and a left-handed screwdriver”
      I just bought a ladder that only goes down. Bargain.

    16. Scott says:

      Labour have always been two faced as we all know.
      Rev,Sorry for being O/T but I noticed this on Saturday.
      “Poles rush for British passports over fears Ukip will deport them”,I thought it was us nasty Nats who would do this if we got Independence.

    17. galamcennalath says:

      Labour. No principles, no direction, no credibility … And they think the rest of us have no memory, no wit, no sense!

      Just finished leafleting my allotted area. Feels good!

    18. According to the Scottish Government’s ‘A Jobs Plan for an Independent Scotland’, a three per cent cut in the headline corporation tax rate, in part to resist the gravitational pull of London, has the potential to increase output by around 1.4% and could boost employment by 27,000 jobs. Both of these would be beneficial to the economy and therefore to the lives of ordinary people.

    19. msean says:

      Is a guarantee bigger than a vow? How does that compare with a pledge or a promise? I think we should have a grading chart to ascertain the effectiveness of these things. 🙂

    20. The Man in the Jar says:

      Macart beat me to it. A genuine facepalm moment. I wouldn’t bet on it being the last for a while either.

    21. HandandShrimp says:

      The lack of business support a couple weeks appears to have Labour triangulating once again.

      Life can’t be a happy one as a Labour blogging shill. The curve balls from your own side are just as dangerous as the ones lobbed over the fence.

    22. bookie from hell says:

      Tories, they take a four-point lead with ICM:

      Con 36% (+6), Lab 32% (-1), Lib Dems 10% (-1), Ukip 9% (-2).

    23. Chitterinlicht says:

      Outrageous duplicity!

      Have they got a doublethink specialist on team or do they hope no one reads WofS?

    24. r esquierdo says:

      The hard of learning will swallow it hook line and sinker

    25. Marcia says:

      Murphy to campaign for the return of outside toilets soon.

    26. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Doug Daniel

      I could do you a nice line in motorcycle ashtrays. Better be quick as Labour supporters are snapping them up. I understand that they consider them to be very useful.

    27. AndyC says:

      @ Wee Jonny
      Labour have just invested in an ASBESTOS ladder…..for going out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    28. Muscleguy says:


      In order to reduce the risk of ambulance chasing lawyers these very soft, impact absorbing hammer covers must be properly attached to the hammer at all times. Failure to adhere strictly to this will invalidate your insurance cover and may leave you liable for full costs and liability.

      The HSE says ‘hammers are perfectly safe when used carefully and appropriately and such covers increase frustration and should not be used’.

    29. Big Jock says:

      We are already at the bottom in Scotland. I want to see what’s under the sub floor!

    30. Macart says:

      @ TMITJ

      Honestly? I truly believe Homer runs their policy dept.

      Its the only logical answer. 😀

    31. handclapping says:

      That’s the trouble with spinning the bowl. The goldfish has time to remember last time round.

    32. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Doug Daniel

      Off-topic – I just bought some magic beans and a left-handed screwdriver. Very chuffed.

      Question is is the screwdriver magnetic, opposites’ attract don’t you know.

      Red tory, Blue Tory.

    33. heedtracker says:

      Fantastic red tory hypocrites in action. What happened to the relentless Project Fear, red and blue toryBBC attacking SNP corp tax cut plan shows they’re certainly not left at all? ” Salmond tax cuts for fat cats in tax havens” UKOK raged.

      Oh well, another teamGB day of vote SLab heat, your NHS is shite Scotland, let Jim Murphy run it, shrieks BBC Scotland, lets get hammered at the football girns creepy old Murphy.

    34. ronnie anderson says:

      Git the DYSON’S oot , hoover these lying feckers up.

    35. AndyC says:

      Another brass neck moment from the above poster…
      Weren’t it Labour who encouraged bankers bonuses and more profit for energy companies in the first place?!?!

      Do GCHQ still have supplies of the TRUTH DRUG which we could maybe crowdfund for Ed n’ Murphy and the rest of the Beverly Hills mob?

    36. proudscot says:

      On this morning’s BBC Scotland’s “Morning Call” the chosen subject was the possible re-introduction of alcohol at football grounds in Scotland. The female presenter introduced the subject as being promoted by Jim Murphy, although opposed by various bodies such as the medical profession.

      Although she had herself mentioned the sainted Murphy in a favourable tone as though opposing the alcohol ban was some kind of rolling back of “the nanny state” (Labour speak for the SNP Government) she then tried to interrupt and stifle any caller who dared to mention Murphy, on the grounds that she didn’t want politics to enter into the discussion.

      This was despite the fact that SHE herself had done just precisely that by mentioning Murphy as the main supporter of alcohol consumption being once again allowed at football grounds. So, more free publicity for Creepy Jim from BBC Pathetic Quay, but no criticism allowed of his naked, vote-chasing politicking!

    37. Jamie Arriere says:


      SLabour’s new silver bullet to solve the affordable housing crisis – Single-ends.

      Vote 21st century, get 19th

    38. Stoker says:

      Rev writes:
      “It’s probably just another weird vortex anomaly. Pesky vortex.”


      Doug Daniel says:
      “I just bought some magic beans and a left-handed screwdriver.”

      And i bet you got them from the same place i bought my tartan paint, fae Dodgy Deb in the wee pink bus!

      Protect Scotland’s interests – vote SNP.

    39. Jim Thomson says:

      @Jamie Arriere

      Dammit, did someone let him into the People’s Palace at the weekend? He’ll be stealing the plans to the one they have there. He’s got form, stealing other folks ideas.

      Next thing you know, he’ll be wanting all shops to smell like the ones in the Transport Museum.

    40. Betty Boop says:

      @ Davy, 1:13pm

      Jim Murphy says Labour will provide 1000 more hammers than SNP…

      @ gillie, 1:04pm

      Och, Kezia’s always confused. It’s party policy.

      Right up folks, a decent interval has occurred, so going O/T. Independence Live crowdfunder on Indiegogo, to keep the great and ever improving livestreaming going until the May election, has 4 days left. The work of these guys is being filed by the National Archives of Scotland, so it is in important record this important time in our history. They need another wee push to get them to target. See at:

    41. X_Sticks says:

      Meanwhile, while we’re all distracted by labour/Murphy’s seeming stupidity the labour call centres are probably very busy phoning the elderly and vulnerable and warning them of the dire consequences of an SNP landslide.

      Don’t get fooled again folks.

      We need boots on the ground or folk on the phones to be sure of winning our pro-indy majority in WM. It won’t happen by itself.

    42. heedtracker says:

      Rancid Guardian headline, blue tories well ahead now, after all their dodgy tax dodgers stuff last week too. No mention of SNP by rancid Graun but they could be “other”

      Another day, another reason to let Muprhy’s red tory Westminster seat warmers go for a long long time in Scotland.

    43. HandandShrimp says:

      Back on the issue of corporation tax I suppose the question for businesses will be whether they believe Miliband or not. What does competitive rates mean? Tax is a many headed beast and although top rates vary so do other factors like the kick in level for top rates of taxation, tax allowances and so on.

      So while we view Labour’s pronouncements with a jaundiced eye I’m guessing the other side of the fence is doing likewise. Miliband and Balls are going to have to nail some figures to all this.

      At the end of the day though, it matters not a jot if rates are high or low it is the efficacy of collection that matters.

    44. Les Wilson says:

      David says:

      Well David, that would explain Murphy’s erratic statements. A wee drop radiation must be effecting him. The most plausible explanation yet!

    45. gillie says:

      Jim Murphy in a call for the return of Rickets to improve Scottish football.

      “I want to see the return of the glory days when malnourished bandy-legged Scottish wingers took the piss out of stout English defenders”, said an enthusiastic Jim Murphy on Reporting Scotland, “There is a crisis in our national game and it is time the Scottish government acted.”

    46. Luigi says:

      X_Sticks says:

      16 February, 2015 at 2:43 pm

      Meanwhile, while we’re all distracted by labour/Murphy’s seeming stupidity the labour call centres are probably very busy phoning the elderly and vulnerable and warning them of the dire consequences of an SNP landslide.

      Don’t get fooled again folks.

      We need boots on the ground or folk on the phones to be sure of winning our pro-indy majority in WM. It won’t happen by itself.

      Indeed, Murphy and Co are well aware that they only need to get their regulars out (or posting!) on the day to claw back a few votes, and the big SNP swing, that threatens to overwhelm them, merely results in a lot of close seconds.

      And with the FPTP system, a big swing with lot of close seconds gives you:

      Absolutely nothing!

    47. call me dave says:

      BBC news tell us Longannet to close earlier than planned as it cost £40M annually to be connected to the grid BUT if it had been located in the South East of England it would have received a £4M subsidy.

      We all knew this before the referendum but it was never news then.

      Funny old world init! 🙂

      Labour, carping and changing policy is normal, fish can only remember things for a few seconds.

    48. Luigi says:

      The SNP could end up with an overall majority of votes, but with only a handful of gains (scalps), such is the concentration of Labour votes in Scotland.

      Small consolation, methinks.

      I would like to see many red tory scalps in May. In spite of recent opinion polls, however, it remains a very difficult task.

    49. Betty Boop says:

      @ X_Sticks, 2:43pm

      Meanwhile, while we’re all distracted by labour/Murphy’s seeming stupidity the labour call centres are probably very busy phoning the elderly and vulnerable…

      Absolutely correct X_S. We need to be talk, talk, talking on the doorsteps, phones, FB, Twitter, in pubs, clubs, trains and buses. Dynamism required again.

    50. Murray McCallum says:

      I think it’s got to do with Labour cuts (in anything) being “fair” and done “the Labour way”.

      They may have a copyright on that unique ability.

    51. Stoker says:

      Sorry, folks, i’ve just been reliably informed that the name of wee pink bus driver is Dodgy Dug and not Dodgy Deb.

    52. Macart says:

      Amazing. 😮

      Para breaks in the whole thread to date. 🙂

      Not the face.

    53. beachthistle says:

      There’s also a vortex anomaly vibe to Labour’s current position re banning alcohol at football. Hansard reveals that Donald Dewar, of the, er, Labour Party, tried to take some of the credit for it!

      “Mr Deware: On this side of the Committee we have consistently supported the legislation in part V of the Criminal Justice 465 (Scotland) Act 1980 and we will not go back on that during the passage of this Bill. I do not think anyone in Scotland pretends that it has in some way revolutionised the position in Scotland or is a talisman that will ward off all possibility of football violence. That would be ridiculous. However, we believe that in a modest way it has been useful and effective. Of course, it was to some extent based on work done by the Scottish Office during the term of the Labour Government.”

    54. Helena Brown says:

      Scott @ 1.13pm, I heard this about the Polish workers as well and thought maybe we should deport Ukip instead. Get more use out of the people from Poland.

    55. Tamson says:


      Labour benefit from gerrymandered seats in England, too. In the 2005 GE, the Tories got about 60,000 more votes than Labour, but 99 fewer English MPs.

    56. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      If I have been refused admission to Wings, that’ll give me the fourth medal;

      The Herald, OK some years ago
      The Telegraph (honestly!)
      UK Polling Report

    57. Bill says:

      Yes, but they won the referendum and its over now, isnt it?

    58. manandboy says:

      O/T. Apologies Stu, but helps expose the UK Gov

      From the 1970’s – a look at the true face of the British Gov.

      Amnesty International branded Kincora “one of the biggest scandals of our age” and backed the victims’ calls for an inquiry with full powers:
      “There are longstanding claims that MI5 blocked one or more
      police investigations into Kincora in the 1970s
      in order to protect its own intelligence-gathering operation,
      a terrible indictment which raises the spectre
      of countless vulnerable boys having faced further years of brutal abuse.

      “It’s only Justice Goddard’s inquiry
      that will be able to ensure
      that evidence doesn’t remain hidden
      in Whitehall filing cabinets
      and that even senior politicians
      will have to attend the inquiry.””

    59. gillie says:

      Tories with a 4 point lead in Gold-Standard ICM/Guardian poll.


    60. robert graham says:

      this will be the theme up until the election as per the referendum guff and downright lies with not one person in the media calling them out its a sad day when these journalists are so bloody cowardly to obey their masters and offer not even a semblance of truth if so whats the point in them being employed what is the reason they get up in the morning as for the editors moral backbone get some then people might just show some respect because right now i don’t think any right minded person would miss any of them they hopefully are a dying breed

    61. velofello says:

      I keep repeating myself, but –

      What Labour, Scottish branch members say, are only words, words of lies and scaremongering. Nothing more. They have no power, no authority. What is despicable is that their words are targeted at the ill-informed, unwary, and the insecure.

      The issues that Murphy is raising – alcohol at football matches is a wee thing – recalling to mind dear Johann, now sadly mist{?}. Some 50% of the population are female, are they likely to support Murphy’s fitba booze politics?

      I recommend a read of Alasdair Gray in the National today – NHS, BUPA, Glasgow Corporation, free trade(TTIP anyone). He covers the them all.Then you can read George Kerevan on Nicola’s austerity speech, Carolyn Leckie on the Council tax, read with incredulity Cosla’s position on teacher numbers.

      And then reflect back on Murphy – booze at football matches. The height of his political intellectual reasoning.

    62. john king says:

      What about it ?
      As Confucius say
      that was zen this is tau
      Ah’ll eh get ma kimono. 🙂

    63. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Next, Murphy will be calling for the return of wee white jobbies on melting pavements during endless summer holidays.

      Dem was the days!

    64. liz says:

      Agree that all this info from Murphy is just a distraction.

      I get caught in it up as well, it’s a waste of time.

      We need to try to focus on the positive the SNP gov do rather than the negative from Murphy.

      God I hate ‘Scottish’ Labour and their minions in the media.

    65. David S Briggs says:

      ronnie anderson says:#16 February, 2015 at 2:11 pm

      Git the DYSON’S oot , hoover these lying feckers up.

      Dysons? Posh bastard Ronnie.

    66. thomaspotter2014 says:

      Better to light a candle than curse the darkness

    67. Robert Peffers says:

      @Marcia says: 16 February, 2015 at 1:32 pm:

      “Murphy to campaign for the return of outside toilets soon”.

      But, Marcia, now that Labour Councils have closed all the public toilets, (to save money so as to pay Councillors expenses), what else can folks do?

      You really have to hand it to Murphy, he spotted that lack of public toilets and came up with a great solution.

    68. Robert Peffers says:

      @AndyC says: 16 February, 2015 at 2:17 pm:

      ” … Do GCHQ still have supplies of the TRUTH DRUG which we could maybe crowdfund for Ed n’ Murphy and the rest of the Beverly Hills mob?

      Well no, AndyC, we want them to keep on lying. What we need from GCHQ, are in those big packing cases they keep down the basement. The ones filled with the anti-Rose Coloured Spectacles. These are a bit like those polaroid ones that you can adjust to block out certain rays.

      Then the Labour voters will be able to see through the rose-coloured haze that makes them blind to the Labour lies.

    69. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Going O/T…

      If any of the Dundee area Wingers, who are intending to turn up at the get-together on Saturday, are also reading this, please get over to ‘off-topic’ and let us know you’ll be at the Invergowrie shebang, so we can get your badges made.

      End of message; stand easy…

    70. Robert Peffers says:

      @:call me dave says:16 February, 2015 at 3:07 pm:

      ” … Labour, carping and changing policy is normal, fish can only remember things for a few seconds”

      Oh! I dunnow about that – Sturgeon and Salmond seem to have excellent memories.

    71. geeo says:

      Murphy in puke inducing performance on scotland tonight.

      “Football fans are entitled to drink at the game as they do at the rugby etc…”

      “Football fans are being discriminated against for things that happened 30 years ago”

      “Drinking at your seat as they do in rugby is a step too far,FOR NOW”.

      1.Emmm..current legislation says otherwise.

      Football = booze ban.
      Rugby = no booze ban.

      2. Wow,it is called responding to an issue and improving it for those who follow.

      3. The propositions and statements from murphy make no sense.
      He says the footie fans deserve the same rights regarding drinking as rugby fans, yet states that drinking in their seats is a step too far !

      That is hardly the same rights now, is it ?

      Mind you, he did say a step too far, FOR NOW.

      The guy is a frigging idiot.

    72. MarkAustin says:

      On the ICM poll, I think we should treat it (as indeed with any poll) until confirmed by others. There is a 1 in 20 (or so depending on the poll methodology) that any poll is badly wrong.

      On the Labour advantages in votes per seat, it’s not quite as simple as Pro-Labour bias in voting. There are a number of factors.

      The Tories have more supermajorities with votes piled up uselessly (remeber FPTP wastes votes here as well).

      Tories are more likely to vote in non-margianl seats, even when they either can’t fail to win or never will win in that particular seat. Labour voters are more likely to sayLabour always./can’t win here, there’s no point voting. This depresses the overall Labour vote below their actual support. It’s worth noting that the differential voting bias disappears in the marginals.

      As most Labour seats are in urban areas, and these tend to “leak” votors between reviews, Labour seats tend to have fewer voters.

      It’s estimated that each of these factors counts for roughly 1/3 of the votes per seat discrepancy, and only the last actually show a pro-Labour bias.

    73. Fred says:

      David Kerr, the SNP candidate at that Springburn election was a TV presenter who threw the £1 coin on TV at the poorest candidate, a Willie Bain who won the cokynut and has never looked back. Poorest is certainly not a word you could apply to Willie these days!

      The best speaker I thought was a certain Ruth Davidson, also a TV something or other? who was of course wasting her time as a Tory in Springburn but the experience catapulted her to fame. Miss Davidson’s not bothered much by “Truthiness” but we’re treated to “Ruthiness” every week at FMQT. 🙂

    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

    ↑ Top