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Vote Labour, get Tory

Posted on September 17, 2015 by

There’s a remarkable story on the BBC News website today about the latest findings of the British Election Study, last seen destroying the myth that fear of the SNP damaged Labour in England. The piece focuses on the discovery that being seen as “too left-wing” does NOT, in fact, cost Labour votes, despite the hysterical warnings of supposedly leftist pundits.

But there’s a more startling fact buried right at the end.

vlgt

The study found that voters switching to Labour from the imploding Liberal Democrats actually opened the door for the Conservatives, enabling them to pip the Lib Dems to seven seats. Arithmetically-alert readers will note that had the Lib Dems kept those seats, the Tories would have had seven fewer and the opposition seven more, a difference of 14 in a Parliament where the Tory majority ended up being 12.

In other words, voting Labour led directly to a Tory majority.

Having spent the entire election – except for the bits when they were actually telling Scots to vote Tory – shrieking that voting for the SNP would let the Tories in (when in fact the SNP’s success meant an effective 20-seat reduction in the strength of the Tory/Lib Dem coalition) if we were Labour we’d be pretty embarrassed right now.

Because it turns out that it was votes for Labour, not the dastardly SNP, that gifted David Cameron sole ownership of the keys to 10 Downing Street.

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      Questions for Yes Voters in Unionist Parties | A Wilderness of Peace

    160 to “Vote Labour, get Tory”

    1. Brill, you couldn’t make it up!

    2. Colin Church says:

      The roulette of being a junior partner in a union. But hey, let’s keep betting every 5 years, sure it will land lucky sometime…

      The compelling argument of letting Scotland get the governments it votes for and sans Lords.

    3. R-type Grunt says:

      They won’t be embarassed because they know they can rely on their media bumchums to not go near this story. Keeping the population in ignorance is their modus operandi.

    4. gordoz says:

      Instant karma !
      Who said that?

    5. Lollysmum says:

      Wow-we’re going to see from wonderful comments from Labour when this becomes well known. How will they soin that I wonder? Pretty equivocal statement which you’ve clearly been able to confirm.

      As the Tree of Liberty says-you couldn’t make it up.

      Well spotted Hawkeye 🙂

    6. Tinto Chiel says:

      Kezia says, “Aye but…..naw but…..oh, bugger it!”

    7. galamcennalath says:

      Presumably the seats involved were those where it was a two horse race between Tory and LibDem and by voting Lab, the Tories overtook the Libdems.

      Shows people don’t understand tactical voting. Normally in FPTP there are two people to chose from, the one who won last time and their main challenger. Anyone else is unlikely to win unless massive swings are predicted (as happened in Scotland).

      Those LibDem voters should have asked themselves – which do I want, Tory or LibDem? By voting for a Lab candidate who couldn’t win, they had actually chose to give the Tory the seat.

      Doh!

    8. Macart says:

      OHHHH, that has ‘OOFT’ written all over it. 🙂

    9. Hugh Kirk says:

      What must Jim Murphy and The Dug be thinking now?..Lets speculate……..Duuhhh,,Hiimmm….SNP, bad!….Of course I might be wrong.

    10. Sinky says:

      Given our MSM /BBC its very difficult to counter Unionist myths.

      Any doubts about devolving broadcasting should be removed after seeing TV schedules for Friday 18 September.

      Not one programme on the referendum. BBC 1 peak viewing hours includes repeats of Would I Lie to You and Still Open All Hours while “Scottish” Television is exclusively devoted to an England V Fiji Rugby match.

      Having previous late evening programmes which featured the subject is no excuse.

    11. Cadogan Enright says:

      Don’t worry – it will be all over BBC Scotand in the morning

    12. Macandroid says:

      @ Hugh Kirk 4:20pm

      What do you mean ‘thinking’?

    13. Finnz says:

      Although there would not have been an outright Tory majority, it would have been likely that the Tory/Lib alliance would have continued, with less Lib and more Tory in the mix.

      Unless, of course, the Libs discovered their testicles and decided to join a progressive coalition.

    14. Dorothy Devine says:

      Once upon a time I quite liked the Independent newspaper – having read the crap published today and the articles on Mr Corbyn and the comments below the line I have written it off.

      That was the last printed copy of anything other than the occasional National ( Thursdays)

      Sadly , I still have to purchase a Herald for my husband ,but since I make him pay for it , the foodbank benefits.

    15. Lesley-Anne says:

      So in reality then, the “SNP BAD” and “Vote SNP get Tory” anthems from May were really only the useless media’s way of covering up for their own extreme shortcomings in their inability to recognise that voting Labour in a two horse race, Tory/Lib Dem seat, would deliver a Tory victory.

      I think this was another fine example of the old BBC adage “nothing to see here move along now.” The only problem with this however is that it failed to work on at least TWO levels.

      1) Scotland voted SNP anyway and got 56 out 59 M.P.’s now prepared to work FOR the people of Scotland in Westminster.

      2) The people of England in the two horse marginals believed the shite being spouted by the media and ended up with a Tory majority government. If only they had actually thought their voting options through properly!

    16. Alcedo Atthis says:

      “The study found that voters switching to Labour from the imploding Liberal Democrats actually opened the door for the Conservatives… In other words, voting Labour led directly to a Tory majority”.

      Weird logic, to be honest.

      You could use the same premises as a basis for concluding that not enough people jumped from Lib-Dem to Labour. I guess that’s how the Labour party would put it.

      Interesting that in that context the Lib-Dem’s are presented as an alternative to the Tories whereas just below the context shifts to one involving a “Tory/Lib Dem coalition”.

      I prefer the latter context — the Lib Dem’s are enemies to Scotland and supporters of independence. Labour and the Tories, needless to say, are too. That’s the deal.

    17. call me dave says:

      A Channel 4 spokesman said: ” This programme raised important questions which concern voters about how senior politicians are able to use their public office for personal financial gain. This is a matter of public interest and was a legitimate journalistic investigation.

      “We’re confident in our journalism and have decided to take the unprecedented step of inviting our statutory regulator Ofcom to investigate it.

      https://archive.is/jBM2r

      —————————————————————
      But!…but Rifkin was on the BBC telling us all,without blushing, that we were all led astray and the public just don’t understand these things. Geez! The man said his life has been just awful for the last 7 months. Aye right!

      PS:
      Footie link for soon now.

      C’mon Celtic… is a choice among many.

      http://mytvlive.me/english-premier-league-live-stream-online/

    18. heedtracker says:

      Its heart of darkness time for Lab. Every leader was unpopular except Sturgeon during the campaign. Which is why we had their giant Alex Salmond the pickpocket thief billboards from the charming Conservative party, instead of Nic Sturgeon the pickpocket billboards.

      What a legacy for Broon and the Flipper, which is probably permanent in England now anyway.

      “But they warn the economic crash of 2008 appears to have fundamentally changed voters’ views on whether Labour can be trusted on the economy.”

    19. Iain McGlade says:

      I have direct experience of this. I actively campaigned for the Lib Dem in Oxford West & Abingdon (Layla Moran). I’m not a Lib Dem, but this was a Tory seat with a tiny majority in 2010 when a series of dirty tricks and a boundary change meant that the Lib Dem incumbent, Dr Evan Harris, lost by 176 votes.

      My campaigning involved knocking on the doors of Labour, Green & National Health Action Party supporters. I tried talking to them about tactical voting to defeat the Tory and the Labour supporters in particular just weren’t interested. Many commented that they would have done if they hadn’t been so disappointed with the Lib Dems joining the coalition.

      The long and short of it is that Tory Nicola Blackwood managed to increase her majority to over 9000.

      A Tory seat, that could have been taken, was lost because Labour voters couldn’t bring themselves to vote tactically.

    20. Bob Mack says:

      In all honesty,I have to admit that the Tories have been playing a blinder in terms of enhancing their electoral opportunities.

      They have everyone else in various parties tearing at each others collective throats, aided and abetted by their servile press.Meanwhile they maintain their solid vote base by pandering to the “I’m all right jack” section of society.

      The only rational and logical vote for Scotland is certainly SNP. as clearly the Tories are going to make hay with Mr Corbyn, who will be the fuel to ignite their prospects in 2020
      .

    21. asklair says:

      Yet another great journalistic article, I can not believe how I was taken in by MSM for so many years, saying that never had and never will have a BBC TV license.

    22. sensibledave says:

      … we are, at last, back out of the silly season and can get back to UK politics – which have now entered a completely new phase.

      With Corbyn now as leader, all bets are off. If labour go into the next GE with this lot at the helm – they will get wiped out in England. Maybe they might get some votes back from pro Union lefties in Scotland though? Maybe Nicola has to go for another referendum sooner rather than later – otherwise she might not get another chance for some time?

    23. JLT says:

      And yet, even with such damning statistics thrown in their face, Labour will still continue to shake their heads, go into full-denial mode and state that, ‘voting for the SNP most definitely led to the Conservatives winning the General Election’.

      Admissions and apologies is something Labour just don’t do. I will await with abated breath for Jeremy to finally apologise for the Iraq War …and while at it …apologise to Scotland for the Party’s antics in last year’s referendum when Labour did everything in its power to deceive, cheat and betray the Scottish people at every turn.

      However …such ‘trivial’ matters will not be the main concern of Labour. Instead, they will focus inwardly over these next few weeks as they watch Corbyn with great intentness and consideration. How his honeymoon period as Party Leader with so many unwilling bed-fellows within his party will be one of compulsive viewing.

    24. Clootie says:

      Give it a day….the BBC and Labour will spin this to mean exactly the opposite.

    25. Sinky says:

      Dorothy Devine says: @ 4.53

      Everyone who supports Indy Ref2 should buy The National on a daily basis. Is only 50p and referendum special tomorrow

      http://www.thenational.scot/

    26. Skip_NC says:

      Is this a case of the media being the story, rather than reporting it? Throughout the campaign, we were told that it was “too close to call,” (to use a term rather common this side of the pond). So perhaps voters felt that voting Labour would give the party legitimacy in attempting to form a government.

    27. Kevin Evans says:

      Heed tracker @5:06

      I had a visit from an English man last week and I can confirm he believes the way it works is (to quote) “labour messes up the economy and the torts come in a fix it” I had to point out the massive recession that happened during thatchers watch. Not to mention interest rates sky high and the mess the Tories left after thatcher,major and her drones.

      He seemed surprised and I think he thought it was just a scot Bitchin about the English.

    28. George S Gordon says:

      Great stuff as usual Stu. I hope Nicola picks this up – I got the impression from FMQ’s today that somebody at SNP is reading you.

    29. Proud Cybernat says:

      And helped them along to becoming the single biggest WM party–you know, the one that always gets to form the Government. You catch that Dim Jim?

      And it’ll be approximately 10 seconds for the SLABours to deny the facts and spin this into SNP Bad.

    30. JLT says:

      Sensibledave says:

      Maybe Nicola has to go for another referendum sooner rather than later – otherwise she might not get another chance for some time?

      For that to happen, the SNP will need to win a majority at the 2016 elections first.

      Without getting that, then there is the real possibility that there will be no 2nd Referendum, and not one for a while.

      Nicola won’t declare one in this Parliament (not enough time, and let’s be frank, far too soon after the last one), and since no future government can be bound by the previous one, then if she did declare one in this session, but then the SNP lost control of the Parliament, then a 2nd Referendum will be canned immediately by the next government in the Parliament if it is not an SNP-ruling one.

    31. chris kilby says:

      FFS!

      That’s just sodding typical, that is.

      (But it’ll STILL be the SNP’s fault somehow…)

    32. Cadogan Enright says:

      @ dinky and Dorothy 4.53

      YES – any Winger or Yesser who does not buy the National daily and police its display in their local newsagent needs their head examined.

      The on-line alert service is less than a pound a week with access to a website that is the antidote to the BBC’s and a library of articles

      The full monty inc on line papers is only £20 a quarter

      If you are not doing it already, you should – it’s really well worth the money and gives you a glimpse of a future Scotland http://www.thenational.scot/subscribe

    33. yesindyref2 says:

      @Rev
      OT

      WBB was a great resource in Indy Ref 1 but Ref 2 will be different, so would need WBB2.

      However, it might be worth a highly summarised version of WBB1 as some of the Fear stuff from Ref 1 will surface again, even if not relevant “Salmond lied about EU advice” for instance.

      Perhaps that summary could be put as an appendix in WBB2, with chapter or paragraph references to the appropriate bits in WBB1?

      In which case, I guess that work could start now …

      … won’t be long now.

    34. john king says:

      SensibleDave says
      ” Maybe Nicola has to go for another referendum sooner rather than later – otherwise she might not get another chance for some time?”

      When would you suggest Dave?
      a week on Tuesday mibbe?

      WE’LL GO WHEN WE’RE GOOD AND READY PAL!

    35. heedtracker says:

      Kevin Evans says:
      17 September, 2015 at 5:45 pm
      Heed tracker @5:06

      Vote Tory they fix Labour economic mess is the consensus in England, tories fix the economy, Lab fix hospitals and schools, is what I get told in England.

      Other news, Prof Ronald MacDonald, not the burger clown, although it may as well be, says Scotland would be in a “deep depression” now, if we voted YES, even though we’d still be a fair way away from indy with a YES win.

      Its a depressing for YES now, let alone having to listen to these guys explain how shite Scotland is. Oil rich Scotland, what got poor.

      https://archive.is/cEISq

      If Scotland’s North Sea oil is worthless, give it back to Scotland. Its not an issue for Prof Ronald and his UKOK fraud here, he’s fully aware that YES winning meant independence next year but hey ho, not all uni profs are smirking buffoons are they.

      https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

    36. yesindyref2 says:

      Interesting findings and British Election Study seems to be a good sound source. I daresay I’ll get to use that some time in the Herald, if I keep bothering posting there after the next few anniversary days.

      Talking about the Herald, considering its editorial where it came out for a NO, and its silence since about the poor Smith offering, and the even poorer command paper and the even poorer Scotland Act, let alone what the Lords will do to it, what should it do once the Scotland Act is finalised and is practically universally condemned by the STUC, Charities, even Hunter? Not forgetting Mone!

      Answers on a postcard to:
      We’re now supporting Indy
      Herald
      Glasgow

      On the other hand there are great sounding editorials, and then there’s the sordid reality of self-justifying weasling out of following principles.

    37. yesindyref2 says:

      @heedtracker
      Hmm, interesting Magnus Gardham seems to be on good buddy terms with Tomkins. Maybe he’s switched from Labour to Tory, not much of a walk that one. But I don’t do twitter, so is that kind of normal stuff there? Do they all hobnob together?

    38. Paula Rose says:

      @ yesindyref2 all of the time.

    39. Lesley-Anne says:

      So the man who famously in 2013 agreed that Scotland no longer exists is now telling Scotland that it has to choose between more powers, aye richt! 😉 , or independence. Gosh that is a tough call to make. Am I genetically programmed to be able to make such a decision I wonder. 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OIRUr4R7GQ

      http://peterabell.tumblr.com/post/129277766004/mundell-scots-will-have-to-choose-between-new

      With Fluffy making such a call today it leads me to question whether he was telling the TRUTH in 2013 or is he telling the TRUTH today. Either way he was a LIAR in 2013 or he is a LIAR today. In short Fluffy is a LIAR! 😀

    40. Dr Jim says:

      Instructions have gone out to schools already teachers having the Vote NO Debates, NO Oil, NO Economy, NO Future if your Ipad breaks you won’t get another one,SNP want to follow the Norwegian culture and they don’t care about brand name trainers and the like so we’ll be too poor to replace these things because of not having a banking system

      How can teachers behave in this way this is direct from my Grandsons mouth tonight, I just hope when the teachers are looking for wage rises for their hard work our Government treats them the same way they’re treating our kids right now

      I’d name the bloody school but I’m quite sure they’d deny it Bastirts…I’m absolutely furious *”%+!%*@

    41. Fireproofjim says:

      Cadogan Enright
      I agree entirely that we should buy the National. For starters it is an excellent paper. It supporte Independence fervently and has great correspondents.
      As for those who say that we are mugs to do so because we are supporting the No-supporting Herald, I would point out that Newsquest Group print over 200 titles and do not interfere with their editorial policy. They are only interested in making money, so as long as the National is making money it can support any cause it likes. Same for the Sunday Herald.
      We are I a good place compared with the run up to the referendum when there were no Yes supporting papers.
      By the way I got the last National today in our local Tesco at 12 noon, so I think it is going well.

    42. Gary45% says:

      Dr Jim@7.09pm.
      If this is true, name and shame the school and the teachers.
      If there is written evidence, we can hang the basta*ds.
      If this is the sh*t the education system employees are teaching,( they can’t be professional teachers) they should be SACKED.
      Teaching kids blatant lies is beyond despicable.
      Obviously still bitter together.

      Nice one Stu on the post.
      Hope your dads getting better.

    43. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      Should Scotland be an independent country

      https://polldaddy.com/poll/9079589/?view=results&msg=voted

    44. Rob James says:

      @ Dr Jim

      Don’t hesitate to make a formal complaint to the school and inform the appropriate MSP for education. When you think they can’t sink any lower, they never fail to come up trumps.

      Re the vote Labour get Tory in Lib Dem winnable constituencies, perhaps certain Labour MP’s think they have figured this one out before you Stu. That may explain why Tim Farron’s hotline has been engaged over the last few days, apparently. It’ll be a bit like jumping ship from the Titanic to the Lusitania.

    45. Tinto Chiel says:

      Dr Jim:” Instructions have gone out to schools”: from whom, I would have to ask? This teacher sounds so deranged he/she must be a Slabber/Unionist. I would be inclined to complain to the Head Teacher with some specific quotations from the teacher and ask him/ her where these came from.

      Heedies hate informed parents: your grandson’s teacher sounds a complete zoomer and should be pursued.

      Fight the good fight.

    46. mike cassidy says:

      Dr Jim 7.09

      I think your anger has marred the clarity of what you were trying to complain about.

      What have the teachers been saying/doing?

      Oh, and name the school. Who gives a fuck if they deny it!

    47. galamcennalath says:

      Wee Ginger Dug says all I would like to say as we approach the one year anniversary.

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/independence-of-mind/

      Ahem!

    48. Dr Jim says:

      Should have mentioned this is not little kids
      My grandson’s seventeen and it’s not just his class it’s voting age kids
      They’ll get nowhere with mine but others who knows
      Also heard of another two schools having debates on the subject today but I don’t know what they were saying

      Still trying to calm myself… Bastirts *&^^&*()+@^&*

    49. Nana Smith says:

      Posted after I had voted d’oh! Slap on wrist

      https://polldaddy.com/poll/9079589/?s=twitter

    50. yesindyref2 says:

      I like this one from WGD: “Yet Westminster sails on, blythely disregarding the referendum vote, believing it was fought on Westminster’s winner takes it all rules. It wasn’t. This was a Scottish vote, fought on Scottish terms.”

      Indeed. Indy Ref 1 was yesterday’s news, what’s on the menu today?

      Ironically even that would mean different things to WM – and Scotland.

    51. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dr Jim
      You say instructions have gone out to schools. If so, that’s the Authority. But if it’s the teacher saying that, then it’s either that teacher only, or the head. If it’s the head their ass is grass, if it’s the teacher, well, report it to the head. Anonymously if you like.

      What local authority is it?

    52. John from Fife says:

      O/T – Good to see the Scottish Government threatening to refuse to accept the NEW SCOTTISH WORLD CLASS POWERS if there is not a sensible budget settlement. A good start

    53. garles says:

      Lesley-Anne says:
      17 September, 2015 at 7:09 pm

      So the man who famously in 2013 agreed that Scotland no longer exists.

      Now LA you being a southern belle

      Thought you would pick up on Fluffy Mk2 in Locals today.

      Time to move on from indie debate

      THIS time last year the people of Scotland had their say on whether or not we wanted to remain part of the United Kingdom or to go it alone. The result was decisive and clearly demonstrated that the majority of Scots recognised the benefits the Union brings and the security that sharing and pooling our resources offers not just this generation but future generations.

      Here in Dumfries and Galloway we saw one of the highest No votes in the country and I am proud of the role I played in helping ensure that outcome as a Better Together Local Leader.

      Having participated in numerous campaigns and elections locally, the referendum stands out in my memory like no other. The level engagement and excitement on the streets and the doorstep has never been seen before or since.

      Sadly. one year on the same issues remain live and I for one do not believe that those on the Yes side have universally accepted the outcome.

      While I didn’t expect people to change their minds over night I was hopeful that everyone would be able to come together and work constructively for the better future we all wanted to see.

      I am continually drawn to the wisdom of Margo MacDonald, who said that the result must bring those divisions to an end and, that whatever the result it was imperative that we seek a unity of purpose.

      I still believe our cross-border interests, our local economy and our values as an outward looking nation are still best served at the heart and centre of our United Kingdom.

      I don’t want to see our communities trapped in the paralysis of endless constitutional wrangling. I want us to see us embrace a better way forward, not a step back to another referendum.
      OLIVER MUNDELL, Moffat

    54. galamcennalath says:

      Mundell … “I for one do not believe that those on the Yes side have universally accepted the outcome”

      I, and I’m sure many others on the Yes side, did accept the outcome.

      It’s the bloody Tories who haven’t accepted the outcome and delivered their side of the bargain they made.

    55. HandandShrimp says:

      I see Alex is on QT tonight with John McDonnell, Sandi Toksvig, Tim Stanley and the Tory Minster for fracking badgers, Elizabeth Truss.

      Stanley is a man of a traveled mind. Baptist to Anglican to Catholic Labour to US Republican. He might declare himself SNP on the show 😉

      Not sure if I will watch. It is from London so one might consider the audience should represent a fair range of opinions. However, it is the BBC.

    56. Andrew Haddow says:

      If Fluffy didn’t want another referendum, he shouldn’t have cheated in the first one.

    57. Lesley-Anne says:

      Ye gawd’s Garles.

      Viceroy Junior of Scotland has opened his trap and spewed a load of bile. Ugh!!!

      To be honest I’m surprised he found the time … after all he is a researcher for the Viceroy Senior of Scotland. 😛

      During the referendum I remember going to a debate with the Viceroy, at this time he was only senior bag carrier, and Joan McAlpine. He was doing his usual “Scotland will have to use the Euro” shite. Needless to say I had him at sixes, seven’s and eights over my question regarding new members to the E.U. and Sweden with regards to their currency. 😀

      Who knows perhaps the Junior Viceroy of Scotland may attend a debate with Joan next year and I might be able to repeat my attack on the Fluffy family. 😀

      Of course there is still one outstanding question for the Junior Viceroy of Scotland to answer. Does he agree with the Senior Viceroy of Scotland that Scotland does not in fact exist any longer or does he disagree? 😀

    58. Dr Jim says:

      Sky news Adam Boulton

      Attempting to talk over Alex Salmond with the same shit NO OIL, Figures don’t stack up, Scotland Bankrupt, Gordon Brown’ yesterdays man and his word doesn’t count
      Scotland’s got all the powers

      I think this is what’s called getting your retaliation in first and here’s the funny thing those are almost word for word the same shit my Grankid was listening to today

      I’ve also just watched BBC Misreporting Scotland and they also had reporters in schools in Edinburgh (Holyrood) today where debates were taking place and one kid said he voted YES last year but would vote NO next time because there’s no Oil left

      Now call me a conspiracy nut but really?

    59. Cadogan Enright says:

      Saw political program on Sky News ruminating on Scotland 1 year on (20.30 onwards)

      Despite attempts by commentator to shout Salmond down he was his usual reliable self making mincemeat of the NO-speak commentator in his usual calm way

      Apparently Nichola making a speech to be covered tomorrow night

      Trotted out all the usual BBC guff but at least gave a senior SNP a chance to make some points – unlike BBC Radio this morning

    60. Marie Clark says:

      garles, OLIVER MUNDELL, being a southern belle myself, I have only one thing to say to you and wee fluffy.

      In the words of Mrs Brown ” That’s nice”.

      Choob.

    61. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      17 September, 2015 at 6:35 pm
      @heedtracker

      Professor Smirky does seem to be the new saviour of the union with blue and red toryboys. Up for Holyrood next year, he could creep in as a list MSP and I so hope he does. Sneaky and creepy, arrogant and condescending, not half as clever as he thinks he is, look out Ruthie babes.

    62. JLT says:

      galamcennalath says:

      I, and I’m sure many others on the Yes side, did accept the outcome.

      To be honest, mate. I have never accepted the result. I was ill to the core when I had to attend work on the 19th. To enter one of Scotland’s major financial institutions and watch people high-five each other in front of people who were physically and mentally distraught will stick with me until my dying days.

      Honestly mate, I have never accepted the result …after the sheer unfairness and complete deceivement of what the ‘No Campaign’ did in those last few months leading up to the main day itself. Sorry ‘No’.

      (1) They used the mainstream media to twist, distort, lie, hide, intimidate, frighten, threaten and weep false crocodile tears in every attempt to confuse voters. For most of the 99.99% of the time, they tried everything to blacken the facts that ‘Yes’ produced, and literally only once did they finally admit to something; when Salmond managed to coax out of Darling that an indy-Scotland could still use Sterling.

      (2) The bullshit lies that they came out with when they stated that ‘Yes’ Campaigners were threatening the public, or members of the ‘No’ campaign with violence …and yet, ‘Yes’ campaigners were intimidated, and were physically attacked themselves, while the media turned the other way.

      (3) The lies and deceit by Westminster over ‘hidden’ oilfields; the oil running out; the threat of companies upping sticks; running to every nation in the world in a bid to veto our ‘recognition’; trying to get families south of the border to emotionally blackmail us into staying (I got one phone call – seriously!).

      (4) The Vow. Lie upon lie upon lie. Enough said.

      (5) The sheer triumphalism of the UK State immediately as the result was read …and then being hit with EVEL …and then watching George Square being turned into a battleground …which Unionists refused to condemn.

      (6) The belittling of our nation since. The refusal of any form of new powers. The contempt held by media, Unionist politicians whenever the words ‘Salmond’, ‘Sturgeon’, ‘SNP’ or ‘Nationalists’ is said.

      They cheated, deceived and lied, and yet, still have the audacity to look us in the eye to say that they won fairly, and that we are a set of bad losers.

      Accept… after what they did …never.

    63. Lesley-Anne says:

      Marie Clark says:
      17 September, 2015 at 9:06 pm

      garles, OLIVER MUNDELL, being a southern belle myself, I have only one thing to say to you and wee fluffy.

      In the words of Mrs Brown ” That’s nice”.

      Choob.

      Noo just hawd on a wee sec there Marie. Choobs are useful and this numbnuts that struts aboot as the Junior Viceroy of Scotland is most definitely NOT useful in any way! 😀

    64. Robert Peffers says:

      @garles says: 17 September, 2015 at 8:32 pm:

      ” … I don’t want to see our communities trapped in the paralysis of endless constitutional wrangling. I want us to see us embrace a better way forward, not a step back to another referendum.
      OLIVER MUNDELL, Moffat”

      Oh! Good! Then no doubt you also accept that the Scottish Government at Holyrood will remain in power in perpetuity as we wouldn’t like to see our communities trapped in the paralysis of endless constitutional wrangling.

      Of course the same goes for the present Scottish representation at Westminster until such times as the sovereign people of Scotland recall them to Scotland after the sovereign people of Scotland decide to take their independence.

      Garles, yer as gyte as yer namesake.

    65. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just in case anyone thought THEY have a clue about respect or anything else for that matter here is what UKIP are currently up to. 😀

      http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/1328936-ukip-to-launch-campaign-to-rename-referendum-anniversary-union-day/

    66. garles says:

      Marie Clark says:
      17 September, 2015 at 9:06 pm

      garles, OLIVER MUNDELL, being a southern belle myself, I have only one thing to say to you and wee fluffy.

      In the words of Mrs Brown ” That’s nice”.

      Choob.
      Marie think you have the wrong end of the stick.

      I detest Mundell he was an obnoxious little prick even at school. I was merely pointing out the blinkered view that Mundell’s operate under.

      This was an extract from one of our local papers.

    67. manandboy says:

      Saw this on the UKOK Facebook page today:-
      An old woman is being interviewed in Aberdeen last year and she is asked why she’ll be voting Yes.

      She said, ‘When I look out to sea, I see oil wells, but when I look inland I see food banks’.

    68. Arabs for Independence says:

      JLT @ 9:33

      Well said.

    69. Macart says:

      Mr Mundell should be aware that there will be no accepting of the actions of Better Together or HMG during the referendum, not ever.

      Mr Mundell should also be aware that the referendum was a conditional result and that his precious masters haven’t lived up to their end of the bargain. Indeed we already know they have no intention of delivering significant governmental change or powers.

      In short, put up or brace yourself for the other shoe dropping.

      The tide is coming in.

    70. indigo says:

      Love tomorrow’s National front page – especially Alert Reader badge

      Badge nostalgia…

    71. Marco McGinty says:

      ” … I don’t want to see our communities trapped in the paralysis of endless constitutional wrangling. I want us to see us embrace a better way forward, not a step back to another referendum.
      OLIVER MUNDELL, Moffat”

      Does that mean that from now on the Tories should only stand in one Scottish seat in General Elections, along with Labour and the LibDems?

      After all, the people of Scotland have voted for the SNP, and they see this party as providing a better future.

      Therefore, do you agree that it would now be devilishly unfair for other parties to stand in SNP-held seats, in an attempt to wrest power from the SNP, and bring about an end to the stability that the SNP has brought to Scotland?

      Or are you just a bullshitting hypocrite?

    72. Tam Jardine says:

      JLT

      Thanks for posting that. I am the same- I feel cheated.

      I think when the smears, lies, intimidation and coersion reached fever pitch we should have pulled it. How ordinary people, cautious and sensible were supposed to have a proper debate and work out the best path forward with our larger neighbour essentially threatening to destroy our economy is beyond me. I posted at length on the Better not Together thread- the UN Charter sets out the principles of self determination. Self determination should take place ‘without external interference’!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      I asked Will Podmore if he could describe last years indyref as having taken place ‘without external interference’ according to the UN Charter. Will has gone a little quiet but I’m sure he’s putting together a very clever response that will answer my question comprehensively.

    73. ronnie anderson says:

      Straw & Rifkind The vidio wiz shot at Southfork Ranch.

      Dream Dream Dreamin.

      Production / Direction by the Parlimentary Standards Authority.

    74. Croompenstein says:

      @LA –

      Arthur Misty Thackeray, the party’s Scottish chairman, is to launch the campaign at an event in George Square, Glasgow on Friday.

      The party says it wants “a formal marking of the September 18, 2014 referendum’s democratic re-affirmation of the UK Union.”

      I wouldnae mind giving oor Arthur Misty an informal mark of a size 10 up his UKIP erse. Let’s see the square on Saturday and contrast with the anger and hate of unionism..

      BTW Glad to hear your old man is ok Stu

    75. JaMur says:

      But John mcternan said this wouldn’t happen?

    76. Gary45% says:

      Toodleoothenoo on K wae an E this morning.
      I only heard a wee bit of the programme.
      He said something about big crowds at the top of Buchanan Street on the day of the referendum.
      I don’t remember EBC Scotchshire reporting that last year, it was usually small crowds for the Yes side etc.
      The EBC caught out again??
      Byra way, Mundell is a waste of a shadow, who will be found out for the twat he is.
      Vote SNP get SNP.
      Tick Tock

    77. galamcennalath says:

      JLT @ 9:33

      Yes, they ran a dirty campaign, I agree.

      As voting opened on the 18th, the decision had changed out of all recognition from status quo versus independence to …, DevoSuperHomeFederalMax versus independence. And at the end they had ignored purdah to make their grandiose offers.

      Make them they did. I didn’t believe them, of course. However that was what was offered and that was what a majority of Scots signed up for.

      The SNP (and other Yes groups) made a big mistake by not saying the outcome was conditional on delivery. But that’s water down the Clyde now.

      When I say I accepted the outcome, I mean I accepted Scotland had chosen the offer put before them. The deal was on the table, and a majority took it.

      I didn’t believe it would be delivered, of course. But at that instant in time, a bargain had been made as far as I was concerned.

      And, my point was … Mundell and his WM chums are the ones who have not accepted their obligations with that bargain.

    78. Lesley-Anne says:

      I have no doubt Croomps that all those lovely law abiding Rangers supporters, Orange Order supporters and members will all be there on Friday singing their favourite song supported by their favourite salute … AGAIN! 😀

      I wonder if wee Lizzie will turn up and show them all how to do the salute … properly! 😀

    79. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, that was fun. A poster on what scotland thinks 3 hours ago, averaged out the last 3 polls and came to 48% Yes 52% No.

      I averaged out the last FIVE polls and came to 50.4% YES, 49.6% NO.

      Ooops.

      If we get rid of the weighting put on by Panelbase, Yougov and Survation for remembered referendum voting, it would be somewhere around 53% YES, 47% NO on average, but mentioning that would lead to all sorts of “yes buts”. Or even nobutts.

      By the way, one poll maybe to come is ICM, not been one done for a long time. As well as perhaps according to SGP, a telephone survation after that panel one.

    80. Marie Clark says:

      Garles. In that case my apologies, but what I said about fluffy and junior applies still applies.

      They are a complete and utter waste of space.

    81. cal says:

      The National looks good tomorrow and no sign of JBC’s coupon on the cover either. All good. Oidhche mhath leibh!

    82. sinky says:

      O/T

      On Rifkind and Shaw lobbyists for hire scandal, we should remember that the Parliamentary Standards Committee is a political body designed to protect MPs.

      Older readers will remember when Labour MP Nigel Griffiths failed to declare that he was charging taxpayers some £11,000 a year rental payments on property he actually owned (and now let to Ian Murray).

      He was found guilty by the Standards Commissioner Elizabeth Filkin who was hounded out of office by Labour MPs in 2002 but the Standards Committee absolved Griffiths from any blame.

      This is how Labour MP Nigel Griffiths celebrated the 90th anniversary of the First World War.

      “Pictures show his ‘secret lover’ dressed in stockings and suspenders next to a door with a tell-tale key tag marked ‘POW’ – Palace of Westminster. ”

      “The MP’s outrageous behaviour on November 11—the 90th anniversary of the signing of the First World War armistice—was a blatant breach of the strict Parliamentary Code of Conduct. ”
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1163878/Im-ashamed-says-married-Labour-MP-caught-mystery-brunette-INSIDE-House-Commons.html

      Surprisingly enough Griffiths still has a Westminster pass for easy access as a lobbyist and the new Red Tory candidate for Edinburgh Southern worked for Nigel Griffiths but Labour don’t want you to know that.

    83. neil bruce says:

      JLT @ 9.33

      Absolutely, 100 percent correct.

    84. Marie Clark says:

      Aye awe right Lesley – Anne, I huv tae agree. Choobs are mibies usefull. The viceroy and son are indeed useless.

      Do you know the bit that aye amuses me when you see wee fluffy, it’s his manner and sense of self importance. As if any of us believe a single word that comes oot his mooth.

      I was in Moffat a wee while ago with my husband, and you know it’s a well he was with me, cause I would probably have gone in to the wee shite’s office and told him exactly what I thought of him. Might have got huckled by the polis mind you, but that wee nyaff needs pit in his place. Wid have been a pleasure tae dae it mind.

    85. Lesley-Anne says:

      Aye Marie as we appear to agree some choobs are useful. 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zloU6cWcER8

      As you may recall I was in Dumfries recently and apparently so was the Viceroy. All I can say is that I was well p****d off when he refused to come outside from his free luncheon to speak to me! After all I had travelled a long, long way to speak with him. (Oh alright 30 miles! 😛 )

      The only other thing I have noticed is that Fluffy Senior does seem to have a rather strange choice of hobby … pot hole spotting! 😀

    86. Luigi says:

      Remember folks, they fought tooth and nail to prevent Indyref 1, and that was with YES starting at 30%. So terrified were they. Now that appears we will probably start the Indyref 2 campaign on 50:50 (at worst), they are absolutely shitting themselves. 🙂

    87. Onwards says:

      I think if Scotland genuinely got the extensive powers we were promised, then enough people would have said “Fair enough – let’s give that a crack for a few years.”

      That’s the problem with keeping the actual wording of the Vow deliberately vague.
      It just doesn’t live up to what most people expected, or were told during the final week of the campaign.

      No wonder most people see IndyRef 1 as unfinished business.

    88. yesindyref2 says:

      Thanks L-A. I’ll have to be up early to get one before they sell out. I might just wear my YES badge … and T-shirt.

    89. Jimbo says:

      ” if we were Labour we’d be pretty embarrassed right now.”

      Aye, Stu – but the Labour sheep and their tame Scottish media won’t spin it that way. As per usual it will be SNP BAAAD.

    90. msean says:

      Kippers ,eh? One minute bleating about wanting folk out or not to come to the uk,next trying to force folk to stay. Should make up their minds.

    91. yesindyref2 says:

      Salmond on QT has the correct approach to the refugee crisis. The UK takes a proportionate share as the EU wants from thost in the EU, and then applies pressure on the EU to provide propotionate funds to the camps in Lebanon etc.

    92. Marie Clark says:

      Lesley-Anne, you have my deep sympathy being stuck wie that wee shite. Pot Hole spotting? Really1 Dae ye mean pot holes as in caves, or pot holes in the road.
      Haud oan, daft question, wee feartie that he is, it’s pot holes in the road, intit.

      We on the ither side o’ the region are lucky enough tae hae a guid MP, Richard Arkless. Nice soul, had a conversation wae him during the GE campaign. Impressed I was ( sorry Yoda moment). Guid sense o’ humour too.

    93. ronnie anderson says:

      @ X Stick see BrianDDTs post in O/T re Dundee Uni event 19th Sept,so I hope you can make it to Freedom Square on Sat. Check out Archie / Paula Rose in O/T.

    94. Iain More says:

      I have the dentists tomorrow and that is the equivalent of being strapped in a chair and forced to suffer a double dose of Disreporting Jackie and Britannia TV Aberdeen. More anaesthetic please.

      I don’t think I will bother with TV or Radio tomorrow at all as it is going to be a day of SNP Bad and Scots downright stupid and evil for voting SNP.

    95. EphemeralDeception says:

      @JLT I felt much the same lucky I had a day off work as I was sorely depressed. I also do not believe for a second that the fraudulent activity stopped there.

      UKOK were willing to do pretty much anything at the end. There is imo also too much naivety and unwillingness of many on the YES side to publicly recognise the possibility of large scale fraud. UKOK had Opportunity, Means and massive Motive, plus a miniscule chance of getting caught.

      Why wouldn’t they commit a fraud?

    96. Lesley-Anne says:

      Marie Clark says:
      17 September, 2015 at 11:25 pm

      Lesley-Anne, you have my deep sympathy being stuck wie that wee shite. Pot Hole spotting? Really1 Dae ye mean pot holes as in caves, or pot holes in the road.
      Haud oan, daft question, wee feartie that he is, it’s pot holes in the road, intit.

      You got there in the end Marie … it is indeed pot holes as in the road pot holes. I’m certain he goes to sleep counting pot holes unlike the rest of civilisation where we count sheep … or S.N.P. M.P.’s 😀

      In all seriousness though I was out a fair bit doing what I could, when I could, for Emma Harper our S.N.P. candidate and was gutted to see by just how few votes she eventually lost out by. Never mind Emma will be back next May. Joan McAlpine is standing in the constituency vote and Emma is on the list. I can’t wait to see both of them along with Aileen McLeod all being elected as our M.S.P.’s next May. 😀

    97. manandboy says:

      Cameron is completely without any personal or political integrity. Time and again, he says he is implementing the Smith Commission proposals in full. Yet he knows that had he offered, one year ago, with Milliband & Clegg, the same deal he is offering today, his offer would have been laughed at, and Scotland would have voted for Independence.

      How a man of this low calibre can be Prime Minister defeats me. But then his predecessors weren’t much either were they.

      Cameron has broken his word. The Referendum result is void, at least morally. Time for a re-run of Indy1, but we’ll just call it IndyRef2.

    98. Andreww says:

      Excellent analysis! The collapse of the Lib Dems gave Cameron victory. SNP winning in Scotland made this less likely but there aren’t enough seats in Scotland for them to have done more. All the political pundits missed it. That’s why I read “Wings”!

    99. Grouse Beater says:

      “We were promised Home Rule. We got Home Confinement”

      One Year On

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/09/18/one-year-on/

    100. Marie Clark says:

      Aye Lesley-Anne, my daughter works with Emma Harper, and we would all like to see her elected. She would be a good choice.

    101. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Aye, the night before the day before the anniversary of a result which laid the Claim of Right to rest for ‘a generation’?

      Like many on this thread, and elsewhere – all across the land, no less! – I do not fucking think so.

      It was horrible to hear Blair Jenkins on KollK this morning, jauntily swapping reminiscences with the giggly host and a prominent No campaigner, as if it was their first getthegither after a naughty holiday threesome last year. (Hiya Kaye!) 🙁

      Was it oor ain John King who, further upthread, gently pointed-out that he doesn’t much care for whatever was said by this or that yin, and the decision is – in the end-up – ours?

      I believe it was, and I believe I agree with him, and JLT, and Tam Jardine, and a’body else who still feels raw and cheated and angry about it all.

      See ye’s on Saturday.

    102. call me dave says:

      Although I get the digital National I will purchase a paper version today.

      As for the anniversary date I’ll just see it as unfinished business and work in progress.

      Prof Curtis in the Hootsman.

      https://archive.is/jZRZJ

    103. Grouse Beater says:

      Ian: “Aye, the night before the day before the anniversary of a result which laid the Claim of Right to rest for ‘a generation’?”

      Take heart.

      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-21i

    104. X_Sticks says:

      @Ronnie

      Thanks Ronnie.

      Still not sure if I can do it, got a wedding reception in Banchory in the evening.

      Of to scratch head.

    105. Dr Jim says:

      Yes civilians to stay away from George Square tomorrow
      Not telling asking

      My particular football club supporting son in law has advised me the Looneys are turning up

      He’s my mole in the particular football club

      Sshh (whisper) they don’t know he’s not a Looney

    106. Chic McGregor says:

      Don’t know what you are complaining about. The Great Gordo only promised near “Home Rule”.

      “Home County Rule” is only one word off after all…

    107. Chic McGregor says:

      I get this nightmare where one of the troughers lifts his snout out of the cesspit, rears up on his hind legs and says:

      “Yes, its all true, we are corrupt, selfish, greedy, bastard sociopaths who are not just satisfied with wallowing in ill-gotten gains but want to push you underclass back into misery so we can all the better appreciate our good fortune.”

      This, in my dream, breaks me out in a cold sweat because they always lie, don’t they?

      So if one of them says that, it must be a lie, even though it is what I believed to be true, it does not compute, does not compute, hence the stress and cold sweat.

      Then I wake up and realise with relief that the flaw in the nightmare was that that scenario would never actually happen because there is zero chance of any trougher ever doing that.

      Phew!

    108. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Grouse Beater –

      🙂

      Overlapped.

      Hoots for your upbeat blog – essential that positive voices be heard and spread over the coming week-end.

      No doubt, thousands of indy-leaning Scots will spend the next few days cowering in their hovels, shaking chicken-bones, offering rosaries and getting plastered in thanks that they weren’t obliterated in the past year by the half-dozen terrorist attacks nullified by Blighty’s Secret Services.

      “I saved you from a horrible death, and you have the gall to ask me for details?! You ungrateful bastard!”

    109. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Don’t know if they’ve frozen the votes or what, but the BBC ‘Battle poll stands like this:

      Britain 23%
      Hastings 19%
      Bannockburn 33%

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31445081

      It’s meant to be shutting today (18th) so, let’s make sure the right battle wins, eh?

    110. Ricardo Khan says:

      It’s unsurprising that Labour activists don’t want to face their party’s role in the election of a Conservative majority. They’re extremely tribalistic. Corbynites aside, they dislike the Liberal Democrats more for existing than for policy disagreement. There’s no great difference between a Blairite and an Orange Booker on economics.

      The same goes for the Green Parties. I recall that Steve Bell – that archtribalist – depicted Natalie Bennett as “green crap” used by Cameron to shield himself from directly debating Labour. This calls to mind the US Democratic Party’s blaming of the American Greens for letting George W. Bush into the White House, rather than admitting the effects of their own party’s repeated betrayal of supporters.

      They don’t mind Irish nationalism because the SDLP and Sinn Fein don’t stand against them; they do very much mind Scottish and Welsh nationalism because the SNP and Plaid Cymru do. This is why they’ll meet Irish nationalism (sometimes more than) halfway while simultaneously screeching that Britain is One Nation In Solidarity and that those who disagree are racist splittists.

      The Lib Dems are intensely unlikeable for a number of reasons, but they’re right about the need for electoral reform. Miliband could have backed it in 2011 and helped facilitate a 2015 compromise, but he was too power-hungry and deluded about his chances of securing a majority. Though I personally liked him far more than the similarly delusional Clegg, his defeat was well deserved for that reason alone.

    111. osakisushi says:

      I’ve a real worry. The media monstered Corbyn but I think he’s got a point. They monstered Salmond but he also makes a point. They monster Sturgeon and she also makes a point. And the media have screwed Scotland, almost with joy.

      BUT they also monstered that UKIP guy and we’re supposed to hate him.

      My pondering is simple. If we work on the basis the media talk crap, were UKIP also making a point? And because UKIP talk with a different accent, was this why we believed the media which we know talk crap.

      All kidding aside, this bothers me. We saw “it” done to Scotland and the SNP, then the media stuffed UKIP too. And tried and keep trying to screw the Corbyn guy.

      It has become a Peter and the Wolf thing and that is really scary. I find myself questioning the refugee thing simply because the media want me to agree with their own mindset.

      On a different topic, Trends and Targets are publishing some stuff about Brent this weekend. Their claim is of a bottom at 27.2 but their caveat relates to Choc Oranges.

      While Scotland only gets a slice of a Choc Orange in revenue, even if Brent gets to its target, an indie Scotland would have the WHOLE Chocolate Orange, Despite Cadbury making Choc Oranges 1/2 the size they used to be but charging the same price…

      Or in other words, an independent Scotland would be 5x better off than currently, Oil revenue under Westminster rule has collapsed badly.

      It apparently needs better 54 to rubbish the 27 drop thing. Which is a bit weird as I can do numbers. It halfed from 108 and their proposal is of it halfing again.

      Odd, spell checker didn’t pick up halfed but I still think it looks wrong. Even did at school but Mrs Hepburn did not approve when I wrote Havved. Yes, 50 years later, I bear a grudge.

    112. yesindyref2 says:

      @call me dave
      Re Curtice. He must have read my posting on his blog!

      Though he did round it down from the actual average of 50.4% YES, 49.6% NO, based on the rounded figures of the 5 polls.

      Curtice: “It means that the Yes campaign has closed the 10-point gap favouring the No side in the year since the vote”

      Well firstly the gap was 10.6 points, and if YES is 0.8 points ahead, then it means ehhh, how do you say it, over 11 points anyway. But who’s quibbling over decimals?

    113. Graeme Doig says:

      Dr Jim

      I,m surprised no one has mentioned the potential for that scenario tomorrow.

      They will certainly make a mistake to think we are all tree hugging wee lassies that they can intimidate.

      In saying that, i really hope the police clamp down on any nonsense quickly.

    114. caz-m says:

      Hello there Graeme

      How are you doing, hope you are well.

      Are you going to the Rally tomorrow?

    115. john king says:

      Garles says
      “Sadly. one year on the same issues remain live and I for one do not believe that those on the Yes side have universally accepted the outcome.”

      For that last year we have had a smug and complacent David Cameron deliver one insult after another to the WHOLE country of Scotland, why don’t you feel insulted by his feverish desire to get out on the doorstep of no 10 to announce EVEL on the 19th of September? or is a unionist inured to the slights and insults and doesn’t feel the pain of the continued slaps on the cheek anymore, too cowed to lift your eyes up from the floor and see the disgusting way this country is being treated?

      Lest face it it was a clear slap in the face to the entire country ,your affected as well for gods sake.

      “I am continually drawn to the wisdom of Margo MacDonald, who said that the result must bring those divisions to an end and, that whatever the result it was imperative that we seek a unity of purpose.”

      So
      for the last year all we have heard is a litany of cat calls and jeers from the people who would have US join in in a “unity of purpose”?
      meanwhile screeching at every opportunity (or even when an opportunity DOESN’T present itself) that “you lost get over it”
      doesn’t sound much like a UNITY of purpose to me, sounds more like making sure you get your cheap laughs in before the inevitable happens!

      and you want us to join with YOU to make Scotland a better place?

      when are you going to get it Scotland is a poorer place BECAUSE of the union!

      “Sadly. one year on the same issues remain live and I for one do not believe that those on the Yes side have universally accepted the outcome.”

      Oh sweet Jesus!
      when are you going to get it?
      to install a single Tory mp IN THE WHOLE OF Scotland into the Scottish office to sit in absolute isolation and tell the country of Scotland who elected 56 SNP MP’s your wrong and I’m right, and you DARE to suggest its WE who cant move on? maybe you would care to remind your father just WHO it is is in the minority here!

      “I don’t want to see our communities trapped in the paralysis of endless constitutional wrangling. I want us to see us embrace a better way forward, not a step back to another referendum.
      OLIVER MUNDELL”

      Heres the thing Oliver
      if your SO keen to seen good relations between Scotland and England you should cross the floor and join the SNP because the way things are going presently with Cameron’s slash and burn approach to our country we’ll have as much left when he’s finished with us as those poor beggars crossing the continent of Europe looking for refuge and succour while the Europeans deal with the reality Cameron slags them off from the sidelines carping “other European countries should follow OUR lead and deal with the issues at source”

      No Oliver if you really want open and friendly relationship with our friends and cousins in England the only way to that is with Scottish Independence the other road brings a poisonous relationship which will bring the same outcome but with very much more bloody consequences,
      Independence WILL happen Oliver,

      which way is it going to be?
      yours and your fathers way,
      or a velvet divorce where we can all at last get on with our lives the way WE want to live them!
      JOHN KING

    116. Luigi says:

      Oh Dear, it seems that the shady, BritNat organ grinders are encouraging their monkeys to go down to George Street to spoil the YES party. How predictable. When will they ever learn that intimidation does not work against scots (or any other people) in the long term? They may well discourage some independence supporters from attending the event, but it will only make people more determined than ever to keep fighting for independence.

    117. snode1965 says:

      Stu, just read your half page Tour De Force in today’s National. Didnae miss anyone LOL!! Your post indy ref analysis on why the Yes movement has grown, ” There’s no way we’re letting those knuckle dragging scum have the last laugh.” Brilliant.

    118. Luigi says:

      George Square – back mistake. Apologies (early hours)! 🙂

    119. john king says:

      Garles says
      “This was an extract from one of our local papers.”

      Then your an idiot for allowing the impression YOU were Oliver Mundell, but whoever YOU are My comments to that little scrote stand!

      and to be honest if that’s the best a unionist can come up with!
      tick tock tick tock

      Now maybe you’d like to introduce yourself pigrim afore we get up a posse and tar and feather you and ride you out of town on a rail?
      no smiley!!!

    120. Luigi says:

      Hoe predictable – a wee sweetie on offer on this day. Amendment to the bill – the parliament will now be permanent. Mundell already shouting from the rooftops:

      The vow is now complete!

      Whooop de do.

    121. snode1965 says:

      Hahaha…Duncan Hothersall has a column on the same page as the Rev. Canny remember ever laughing this much at 7am before in my life, well done to all at the National.

    122. john king says:

      Ronnie Anderson says
      “Straw & Rifkind The vidio wiz shot at Southfork Ranch.

      Dream Dream Dreamin.”

      Snigger

      No amount of showers could clean those clarty bastards!

    123. JLT says:

      Hi Galamcennalath

      Hi mate, I know exactly what you are saying. And there was another one that I forgot; purdah!

      Honestly, they broke so many rules that one of the things at the time that disappointed me, was that key institutions of the world (EU, UN) didn’t step in and say that what the UK Government was doing was illegal and utterly anti-democratic.

      Anyway …just checked the weather for tomorrow and according to the BBC (yeah, I know) …a very sunny afternoon in Glasgow. Really looking forward to it now LOL

    124. JLT says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      Don’t know if they’ve frozen the votes or what…

      LOL …the Beeb will be raging! It seems even the English are probably completely WW2-fatigued from all the OTT-celebrations over the last three to four years. In fact, the current English population probably feel as though they have fought Hitler too, as it has been rammed down their throat 24-7 at every possible opportunity.

      Take the hint BBC. The war has been over for 70 years. Sure it was the darkest period in Europe’s history, but it is history. It is 3 generations ago. Let it rest for God’s sakes.

    125. ronnie anderson says:

      Am no happy wie that National front page. No wan o BrianDTT & PeteTCs badges are displayed.

      The Wings Team have a bigger variety of Badges . Wings stall at Scott Statue (centre) of Freedom Square,see You’s there.

    126. Macart says:

      Some great stuff in the National today right enough.

      The Rev, WGDx2 with some beautiful and powerful writing. The ever superb Angry Salmond interviewing a relaxed and humorous Alex Salmond.

      Oh and a comedy turn by the name of Hothersall, who is apparently all anti intimidation. 😮

      Ah know! 😀

    127. ronnie anderson says:

      We ( the Scottish People ) are getting further devolved powers,more than any other Colony,did ah spell that rite.

      Naw, I,ll try it another way.

      Amendment to post.
      We The Scottish People are giving Cameron & Westminster the Colonic Irrigation Treatment,an they dont like it UP EM.

    128. gordoz says:

      Don’t think the bulldogs are daft enough to try a spoiler cause
      you know the Cops & BBC will be filming it all ..:)

    129. Macart says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Hope you have a great day tomorrow Ronnie. Wish I could be there, but pulling double shifts right now.

      Mind and give any passing WPCs yer best winning smile. 🙂

    130. DickieT says:

      Just sitting here about to make a comment about the new Liberal leader but actually without googling could not even remember his name. Made me then realise that he has disappeared from any news headlines, media – in fact not a peep.

      Chances of Liberals regaining votes – zero

    131. Nana Smith says:

      Just one thing to say this morn. Cameron, Brown and the no campaign have turned me into something I never thought possible. I was a very mild mannered wifey who avoided confrontation.

      Now my life is filled with loathing for people I never paid any mind to, people who lied to our elderly and made them fear for their future and took joy in their despicable actions. Above all else that is what makes me angry.

      O/T links

      https://snpactivist.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/a-year-down-the-road/

      https://petewishart.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/608/

      http://theorkneyvole.com/2015/09/17/alistair-carmichael-writes-today-in-the-orcadian-an-unsustainable-situation-we-agree-go-with-what-little-dignity-you-have-left/

    132. Grouse Beater says:

      Depressing, I know, but we plan to have a happy ending:

      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-21i

    133. Nana Smith says:

      Great Britain eh?

      http://www.rt.com/uk/315707-saudi-child-crucifixion-uk/?utm_content=buffere2e9e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

      http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5670/ipcc-launches-13-more-probes-into-paedophile-cover-ups

      WhatsApp and iMessage could be banned as MI5 boss Andrew Parker asks Facebook and Twitter to share users’ messages

      https://archive.is/Sw422

      Cameron the biggest crook of all, surrounding himself with criminals.

      https://twitter.com/withorpe/status/644535480093159424

    134. john king says:

      Message to David Cameron
      Holly is the name of my cat
      HOLY is the prefix to rood
      different,
      see?

    135. manandboy says:

      The No verdict in the Referendum is unsafe due to the prosecuting Establishment interfering with the evidence and disregarding the Purdah rules. Ask any judge, anywhere. The result should be set aside.

      Nicola will soon convene a re-trial with a new Referendum. Scotland has a right to self-determination which will be upheld in IndyRef2.

      I rest my case.

    136. Ken500 says:

      Everything to look forward. 56 SNP MP’s. Another landslide 16/17, to get rid of the liars. Good riddance. Independence support up 5% a year. Independence within 5 years.

      Wings going mainstream. Thanks forever Rev Stu.

    137. john king says:

      Ronnie Anderson say
      “We The Scottish People are giving Cameron & Westminster the Colonic Irrigation Treatment,an they dont like it UP EM.”

      I didn’t finish reading you whole post and that was what I thought, you beat me to it ya b…

      when that see the polls when we DO start campaigning again they wont need a funnel up their arse, the shit’ll be pouring down their legs!

    138. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Nana, another link about Cameron, including Blair, Dr David Kelly(murdered) and the South African Nukes

      http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/02/08/the-color-of-david-camerons-underwear/

    139. Another Union Dividend says:

      To-day’s National is a must read not least Stu Campbell’s contribution. http://www.thenational.scot/

      However Duncan Hothersall’s contribution is a joke when you consider that his Labour colleagues in South Edinburgh were harassing pensioners by telling them that they would lose their pensions if Scotland voted Yes.

      And who can forget their harassment of Neil Hay.

    140. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT but RT has a one year on programme starting at 6p.m

      Wonder if their attitude will be agin the chappie who pleaded with Putin to back the union but now vilifies and threatens him?

    141. paul gerard mccormack says:

      dear Stuart,

      Sorry this is slightly OT but it’s really all under the same umbrella. Here is my small ask, given your tenacious approach, I think this task would best fall to WoS.

      What the interminable wrangling re ‘devolved powers’ one-year-on needs (and always has done), is a once for all indelibly-marked- on our consciousness (sweeping away all that mealy-mouthed spin re devo max ad nauseum) SUPER INFO-GRAPHIC showing Scotlands powers diagrammatically PRE-VOW, THE VOW AND POST-VOW all done in a reasoned and proportionate way avoiding accusations of political bias. Seeing is believing. I’m sure you’d be the person to do this. I’ve also asked the National to do it via WGD.

      I know you are not a request show, but it is worth a try 🙂

    142. Colin Church says:

      Feel crap on anniversary of vote but silver lining… won a tenner on bet last night that radio Scotland would be plagued by “technical difficulties” this morning.

    143. skozra says:

      @ osakisushi

      Halved ?

    144. Will Podmore says:

      No, when too few people switched from LibDem to labour, it let the Tories in. Likewise, when too many switched from Labour to SNP, it cut Labour’s total seats, letting the Tories in.

    145. Gary45% says:

      The VOW should be renamed the Ghostie,
      you think its been passed, but you cannot see it, but you can definitely SMELL it.

    146. Nana Smith says:

      @Alan Mackintosh

      Thanks for that link Alan. Gordon Bowden has been digging for a long time, just hope he has a minder or two.

    147. Shy Unionist says:

      Still enjoying having your Tory MP in Bath then!

    148. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Will, oh aye? Run your arithmetic for that one past me? Lets see how the numbers stack up then. Rather than just casting assertions, “show your workings”.

    149. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Will Podmore

      Will you are a LIAR.

      GE result – Tory 330 seats, Labour 232 seats, and if Labour had won every seat in Scotland = 59 that adds up to 291 The Tories would have won anyway.

      So piss off you lying little lickspittal.

    150. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Will Podmore, you really need to engage brain before posting.

      At the 2005 GE, Labour lost 48 seats (down from 403 to 355) – they held on to power. In Scotland they lost one seat to the SNP.

      In 2010 they lost 91 seats (down from 349 to 258) – they lost power. None of these losses were in Scotland.

      In 2015 they lost 24 seats (down from 256 to 232) – they remained in opposition.

      But, in 2015 they lost 40 Scottish seats. So, they actually Gained 16 seats in England and Wales.

      They lost the GE in England and Wales, not in Scotland.

      Even if they had held onto all 40 of their lost Scottish seats, they would still not have been able to form a UK government.

    151. scotspine says:

      @ will podmore.

      Saw you posted again. Didn’t bother reading your shite and never will again. Now do fuck off and stop wasting your time.

    152. The Man in the Jar says:

      Apologies there is an error in my previous comment. You see when I read such utter pish like Mr. Podmore posted I tend to shoot from the hip. So before Mr. Podmore returns whining I will post this amendment.

      In my above comment I omitted the fact that the Labour party retained one seat in Scotland at the GE. That seat includes the district of Morningside. So no doubt their slim majority was won due to tories voting tactically to keep the SNP out. Anyway my point still stands and Will Podmore is still a liar.

      Now that the Labour party is ran by a committed socialist Jeremy Corbyn I am left wondering if the Tories of Morningside are still happy with their choice.

    153. Cadogan Enright says:

      Good post on National website (and newspaper) today – several other really good ones too by the Wee Ginger Dug, Harvie et al

      Stu said “I STARTED Wings Over Scotland because I was sick of hearing things being said on TV and reading things in newspapers that I knew weren’t true, but which absolutely nobody challenged. The most obvious example is the idea that Labour needed Scottish seats to win UK elections – that’s absolute hogwash, but everyone repeated it like a self-evident mantra. ”

      I had felt like that as far back as 1998 – one feels so helpless when you see members of your own community or family embedding untruths into their frame of reference to make decisions about life, government, politics , sociall justice and the economy based on the belief they are well informed.

      Many MSM journalists grew up in this mileau and not a few don’t even have the nouse to realize they are spouting drivel – as we say in the computer industry ‘GIGO’ — garbage in garbage out and indeed if they did not reflect the mantras they would not be able to find work these days. (There is a wonderful way of expressing this in Gaelic – but poor Stu has been infected by that UKOK meme so I won’t go there)

      We really need a ‘Wings over Ireland’ and probably Wales and England too.

      Regarding the likes of Podmore, I would prefer if people learned from Alex’s calm demeanour in the face of media idiots and used Podmore for edudite practice in the refutation of his tosh – or just ignore him. As there a lot of old- fashioned people like me that don’t like bad language – one can lose an argument by losing ones temper.

    154. garles says:

      Marie Clark says:
      17 September, 2015 at 10:28 pm

      Garles. In that case my apologies, but what I said about fluffy and junior applies still applies

      No need for an apology It was me.I was so angry when I read the article a mibbies should have calmed down a bit before writing.

      Good to see Emma is going stand again

    155. Fred says:

      Podmore is the strangest of the strange, judging by his posts he has no interest in Scottish politics and like the Bourbon’s he has learned nothing & forgotten nothing. His dull contributions/pearls of wisdom, have convinced nobody as far as I can see, no disciples, not even a Judas!

      Seriously, who in Scotland could be fuckin bothered posting on some Metropolitan website every day, a far away place of which we know nothing, and achieving absolute zilch for your time & effort. But that’s the GB Commies fur ye, self-delusion is the name of the game. There’s no more chance of a Communist revival in Britain than there is of a Second Coming!

      Communist my arse!

    156. Labour had no difficulty campaigning alongside its Tory
      friends during the independence referendum telling us here in Scotland how we are all better together being part of the UK.

      Well as Labour accepts Scotland should be governed by
      the Westminster parliament.

      It therefore can’t have any complaints when the people of England decided to elected a Tory Government.

      So it about time Labour got over it and moved on!

    157. K1 says:

      Will, you really do come across as ‘pathetic’, it’s getting tiresome…I too will not be ‘viewing’ your posts again. You seem obsessed with arguing for arguments sake, you don’t actually ever move from your own viewpoint, or take on board anyone else’s view, you do not seek ‘common ground’.

      I can only surmise that some sort of ‘bitter’ disappointment is at the core of your outlook, something you haven’t been able to ‘get over’, and you utilise ‘politics’ as a means of ‘venting’ unconscious unresolved content from your life. Your instinctive ‘reaction’ to anything you disagree with is, is to ‘blame’, a lashing out at the world (politically the SNP), because it’s(they personify what you find objectionable) not conforming to your outlook.

      I ‘feel’ that you are troubled and my instincts have always been to reach out to others, because I find it easy to understand the nature of the ‘underdog’ paradigm. But you’re a dog that snarls and barks at those who even attempt to connect with you, you complain that they have got it ‘wrong’ and when they point out to you that it is your ‘perceptions’ that are ‘contorting’ your capacity to ‘see’ facts for what they are, you whimper back at them, and that’s the ‘pathetic’ part that I refer to above.

      You’ve a narrow range Will, and it’s a sad sight to behold, but people can’t be expected to put themselves out to someone who’s only objective is to undermine and attack at any opportunity, their ‘values’, and that is exactly what you do on this site.

      It’s not pleasant viewing, and you’re giein’ yersel’ a richt showin’ up.

      I wish you well Will and nae harm tae ye.

    158. Will Podmore says:

      A general election in Britain is still a two-horse race – it is a zero-sum game.
      The fewer seats Labour gets, the more the Tories get and vice versa. The SNP, the LibDems and the Greens mostly take seats away from Labour.
      Fred asks about my motivation and writes of England as ‘a far away place of which we know nothing’. He, as a supporter of dividing the British working class, feels no need to know anything about England.
      But as I support the unity of the British working class, I have to be concerned about what happens in Scotland.
      K1’a amateur psychologising of someone he’s never met reveals more about his psychology than about mine.



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