Voices of the colonies
In case you missed it, there was an interesting phone-in on the subject of Scottish independence on James O’Brien’s LBC radio show from 10am this morning. I chipped my tuppence-worth in at the start (I’m the second caller, from about 6m 25s), but it’s fascinating listening to O’Brien’s tone evolve as the hour-long segment goes on.
(James O’Brien, LBC, 7 August 2019)
.
We don’t doubt for a moment the sincerity and good intent with which he states his position. But when he talks in the intro about the special feelings he has when he’s in Scotland, which he also gets in Greece, the whole argument collapses.
Because O’Brien doesn’t appear to need to feel that he “owns” Greece, or that he’s a Greek citizen, to have that warmth towards it. He doesn’t need the people of England to elect Greece’s governments for it – he’s happy to have those feelings towards a completely independent country. So why not about an independent Scotland?
(Sadly I was cut off before I got a chance to respond to his point about Germany and its federal regions, which would have been to point out that no one German region is six times bigger than all the others put together and can – and does – impose its will on them whenever it wants.)
And much to his credit he appears to realise that as the show goes on. Whether he still thinks deep down that the Scottish independence movement is in significant part driven by anti-Englishness, only he can say. But his callers today at least appear to have made him think about it, and it’s a process worth listening to.
Cant get that to play. Anyone else?
Works for me (Win 10)
I caught the last caller, an English woman living in Scotland who admits she voted No in 2014 but has completely changed her mind. As you say, even to me as someone who’d missed most of the programme up to that point, I could tell he was having some sort of epiphany and was refreshingly upbeat and positive about the case for Indy by the end of the show. I’m going to make a point of listening to the entire show when I have time.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Voices of the colonies In case you missed it, there was an interesting phone-in on the subject of Scottish […]
The subject continued into the Shelagh Foggarty show. Serial idiot, Tom Harris exMP, was invited to pontificate on Indyref, Brexit and Indyref2. Astonishingly, it is apparently ‘unpatriotic’ to seek Indyref2 because it causes people to disagree.
You can find idiots every where you look. Particularly if your narrative is supported by looking for certain kinds of idiots.
Annoyingly he also accepted the UK Defence Journal’s comment that the frigates had been ordered/delivered as promised at #IndyRef2014 without bothering to fact check and accepted their comment that the female Indy supporter had been lying – which, of course, she wasn’t.
It is happening!
Scotland’s dreadful relationship with a draconian Westminster is unjustifiable
And must now be brought to an end.
The First Ministers Independence Petition continues to grow with many signing up
Through reading these posts on WoS.
The number is just about ready to go through 270,000!
All of this must and will bolster the First Minister to press the accelerator.
Just get us around the Boris Brexit Bend and it’s into Top Gear!
When James suggested couldn’t we try harder to get along,
What like the EU has been doing, like SNP has been doing.
How do you trust the immoral crooks next door who illegally
Broke the Purda and every single promise in the Vow.
We are supposed to now be the strongest devolved parliament in the world
And now they tell us it’s so strong they can take every devolved power away
From us and we don’t get a say in it?
Indy Ref 1 is completely void as Westminster told us the only
Way to stay in Europe was to vote No.
More than 10% of the No votes would have been based on this as a
63% Remain vote up here more than proved.
The Union is Dead. Long live Scotland!
The First Ministers Independence petition link.
link to yes.scot
Yeah I caught your interview Stu…realised it was you straight away when he said…”..Stuart in Bath”.
I also believe it was a fascinating listen and to be fair..by his own admission..the only two callers who were ‘chopped’ (Mr O’Briens phrase) were from Wimbledon and Milton Keynes..both anti-indy.
Goodstuff.
Perhaps James O’Brien might like to interview the First Minister, I’m sure she’d be very happy to do that and sign him up as a member of the party by the time she’s finished, who knows she might give him his own Scottish Passport so he’ll feel more comfy when he goes to visit North Berwick, although she might also remind him that if he goes for a swim in the sea there he’s actually still in England
I’ll bet James doesn’t know that
James O’Brien is generally one of the “good guys”, although how much of that is him & how much a media persona I dunno.
I still remember him pointing out that Amber Rudd’s first speech to Tory conference as Home Secretary was basically chapter 2 of Mein Kampf which she was completely unaware of.
Priceless.
While James might like us all to just get along!
But…
Getting along doesn’t answer how Scotland is ment to have any democracy.
Presumably he would agree that people should live in a democracy. The premise of which is that the people can hold their government to account.To vote them out if they don’t suit the people!
How is that possible for Scotland in this bloody Union?
Brexit is not the cause of our independence but rather a major example of Scotland’s inability to hold it’s government to account that’s finally shown the democratic deficit for all too see and for none to deny.
Now while I hope the English get their Brexit cancelled it’s beside the point.
Scotland needs independence to bring it’s Government within slapping distance and it needs this whither Brexit happens or not.
It’s always needed it!
Letting someone else rule yer land is not democracy and at least he seems to grasp that….
Insincerity drips out of him. It’s about Scotland getting to choose.
BBC Labour party in Scotland admit to being furious and Ruth Davidson employs one of her sectarian slogans by saying “No Conservative Prime Minister would sell the jersey”
Sorry to go O/T so quickly but Wingers may be very interested in Scotland at 7:-
link to youtube.com
It has started but you can start from the beginning now or after it has finished.
LBC claims it has 2,352,000 listeners. There were a few more today, ones with IP addresses from north of the border.
Partly of course that’s because it’s about them and not us as it should be. But the good people at least can get over it, and will recognise that in the light of circumstances a new decision on independence has to be taken and ultimately it’s our call.
It’s not as if they can’t come visit for ever after. Some may even prefer to migrate here.
As presenters go, I find that James O’Brien’s alright.
My response to his sincerely felt opinion that ‘Scotland always feels like home’ would simply be that, England has ALWAYS felt like a foreign country to me.
(His re-run of the 2014, ‘we love you Scotland’ was just clearly intended to elicit a response)
I write this having been mercifully out of the political groundhog loop as I’ve been fortunate enough to be in Hungary for the last 2 months setting up/renovating a home here for my nether years (too long a story). My back-up plan should the Brits not accede to the Scottish question/ demand (which I think will be painfully unlikely) is that I have my Irish passport (my birthright) in order to remain a European and so my residency here should be on reasonably firm ground (excluding Orban and Fidesz of course)
The point i would like to make is that home is where the heart and love is. I am Scots Irish, pure and simple. that is home for me, as equally I feel at home with the Magyarol.
Its to do with language, its to do with culture, its to do with people, and Archie Gemmill getting ever closer to that six yard line.
‘Feeling at home’ has probably got fuck all to do with ‘politics’, or what passes for it these days.
A High of 23°? Fuck off.
Yes, a partial epiphany there. And I think lots of little epiphanies are happening across these isles. Previous No voters now question their past assumptions and conclusions. Folks down south who are really only think about Scotland and her issues for the first time are realising why we want out.
Education, information, and provoking thought will win through … is winning.
Everyone has been doing their damnedest to try to get along, to cooperate …. EXCEPT hardcore Brexiteers!
The Scottish Government has bent over backwards with reasonable compromise solutions. Even to the extend where some pro Indy folks question why they are being so reasonable.
The EU has best over backwards, even accommodating unreasonable Tory red lines. A sensible backstop has been agreed to ensure a solution on the Irish Border no matter how trade talks go.
IMO the only obstructive barstads are far right English Nationalists!
The time for all this reasonableness is slipping away fast. People everywhere see it.
The true message of why Scoland wants independence is slowly but surely getting out there.
Scotland…..I meant Scotland
I would loved to have told James why he was wrong on his statement that if Gordon Brown was PM it would have actually helped or strengthened his argument for Scotland remaining in UK..but I respect the fact that he is probably unaware of the issues we in Scotland, who support Independence, have with that individual….or even as he stated a more “liberal” Tory as PM.
Also the person who noted that Stu had lived a long time in England yet pro active on Scottish Independence was given short shrift by James when comparison made re “British” pensioners living in Spain yet still active in “British” politics….also perhaps the caller forgot irrespective of one’s beliefs or politics that this, unfortunately, is still the UKOK and one can live ANYWHERE within it….I mean his argument was ludicrous .
Must admit James O’Brien is not too bad but , as he admitted, he has never been interested in any politics outwith his own country but at least he is willing to have an open mind but his sentimental feelings I am afraid is not enough to want to keep us tied to UKOK….we had that in 2014 with all of the celebs who stated ” Stay with us.We love you” then f**ked off and were never heard from again post Indy Ref….funny the contrast of the callers who were pro independent on this show in comparison to the bitter and negative callers on Jeremy Vine show who represented the Unionist side….compare and contrast indeed.
That was well worth listening to. All supporting Independence barring 2 English dolts (living in England) who were put in their place. I loved the call-in from the guy complaining about Stu living in Bath, but supporting Independence. He got short shrift. All callers were articulate and informative including the Polish woman and the English woman living in the Borders area who had voted No previously along with their English husbands. The latter members of ‘English Scots for Yes.’ A bit of an eyeopener, and an education, for James O’Brien and his 2 million plus listeners? I just hope that the lady who mentioned the frigate contracts gets back to O’Brien to set the record straight. Highlight that her comments were correct. Amazing don’t you think too that someone from the MoD or whatever? jumped right in there and contacted O’Brien’s team?
Anyway a big thank you to all who phoned in and did Scotland proud.
Interesting. I agree, you could hear the realisation. Chuffed to listen to all participants, aye those two eejits too, who were cut off. Only a wee radio phone in, feels and more importanly sounds very different to before 2014. *caveat aplenty ?
O’Brian is totally unaware of the situation. I haven’t had time to hear the whole programme yet but just after the news and commercials he says, “And Scotland wanting to leave the United Kingdom”.
He is wrong for, as one of the only two member kingdoms in the United Kingdom, when Scotland regains her independence it ends the United Kingdom.
The United Kingdom certainly contains three countries and a bit of another country but these were/are all parts of the Kingdom of England. They are not signatories to the Treaty of Union that is the international treaty that constituted the United Kingdom.
So O’Brian is off to a bad start. So anyway I’ll go back and continue listening to the rest of what seems like being the usual, misinformed, unionist claptrap.
Towards the end a caller from Scotland came on and put the argument that independence was not about England or anti-Englishness, it was about Scotland wanting to have full control of its own affairs as opposed to having them imposed by Tory Governments we have never voted for since 1955 and whose policies are at 180 degrees to those the people of Scotland wish to pursue.
James, to his credit, saw the point in the current Brexit scenario.
Robert Peffers@9.12pm
Glad to see you back posting and in good form. Hope the eyes get sorted asap.
O/T
Have a listen to Ian Murray. Not happy about O’Donnell using the term “English Parliament” (which it is), English colleagues coming north of the border and so on.
link to mobile.twitter.com
O/T
More from Murray. A raging wee man. ….
link to mobile.twitter.com
……………….
link to mobile.twitter.com
Did O’brien really say 500 years of Union. Give me strength.
Just couldn’t continue to listen anymore.
Jeez Ian ‘Union Flag’ Murray got a bit of a toasting on BBC The Nine.
When pressed on why he supported a 2nd EUref but opposed a 2nd Indyref, he complained that Brexit case was full of Broken promises.
I had to take deep breaths as the oxygen level across Scotlsnd got a bit rarefied as (more than) half the Scottish population did the same.
I predict Rev could have good fun with that in an imminent post.
Lizg@7.40pm
As so often Liz you are spot on.
Leaving the EU against Scotlands clearly expressed wishes is a symptom that highlights the need for independence to others that cannot see the true fundamental reasons for Scotland to be independent.
BBC keeping the Mc Donnell story going tonight saying that as he’s reiterated his Indyref2 comments there’s something going on. Boils down to they’ll need the SNP if a GE is forthcoming. Meanwhile the Tories have seemingly carried out a repeat of the in the pocket – Nicola / Miliband (Corbyn) cartoon. Ruth also came out of hiding spitting so much that I couldn’t make out what she said. Maybe something about a Corbyn / Sturgeon deal?
R4 Talking head Uncle Tom.
“once in a lifetime” again, and again….
Lie after lie.
“respect the result”!
Shameless
This is all they’ve got left in their armoury?
🙂
@Cubby says: 7 August, 2019 at 9:22 pm:
” … Glad to see you back posting and in good form. Hope the eyes get sorted asap.”
You have no idea how frustrating this eyes problem is. It keeps changing all the time. At the best I’m reading with the aid of a big magnifying glass. At worst I can’t see the time on the big clock on the wall and the text on the mobile is hopeless.
Sometimes I have to use the Windows 10 mechanical voice to read from the computer and it read everything even ads and reports that there is a picture that I cannot make out what it shows. \\\then things change and many of the colours around the house just fade away to grey – especially reds and oranges but sometimes things I know are blue go green and greens go blue and then I get eye strain and headaches so am forced to listen to the radio but cannot see what stations I’m trying to tune in.
Thing is I’m one of those people that just cannot sit doing nothing. I’ll go mad before I get the operation.
@Robert Peffers –
It’s unfair to attack James O’Brien on the basis of such a short extract. He can’t be expected to share your knowledge.
Later in the morning he admitted that the call-in had given him a lot to think about and he put his hands up as being guilty of simplifying Scottish and Irish political matters in the past.
If only we had some prominent presenters on Radio Scotland who had the balls do likewise…
🙁
I was listening to this (strangely just started listening to this channel in the last few days) today but missed Stu’s intro whilst rushing around getting lunch and trying to listen over tv in other room and heard the ‘Bath’ twang and kept thinking I know that voice! Now I know why.
Rev, if you get on again can you ask them would they swop places with Scotland? Would they have Scottish governments foisted on them? Would they have 59 MPs compared to England’s 533 (?)? Would they host Scotland’s nuclear weapons even if they were anti nuclear? Would they give all their oil and gas revenues to Scotland and wait to see what they got back?
All for the sake of a sense of togetherness.
Somehow I doubt England would.
@ Defo (10:22pm), do they really think that they are influencing people to come around to their way of thinking by going on with this “once in a lifetime” garbage? Even the most politically ignorant Scots must see that Westminster is a shambles and that the situation has changed dramatically. Goodness only knows how they, the Unionists, will react as support for Independence rises? One thing for sure is that Independence supporters have behaved themselves, in the main, following losing IndyRef1 and over the subsequent 5 years. Has anyone seen any of our politicians behave like them in the face of defeat, etc? That difference alone should send out a clear message to the Scots.
Perhaps a quick genealogy check might be in order.
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com
Every Loser Wins: How “democracy” works in Scotland as part of the UK
————————————————————–
PS: Radio 4 (just now)
Prof Curtis says Labour / SNP working together might happen.
Hence McDonnnel’s remarks.
@Meindevon (10.41) –
You say you only started listening to LBC recently.
Same here. I usually avoid commercial radio like the proverbial because I cannot stand the adverts but LBC has obviously struck on a successful antidote to 24/7 muzak pap and more power to them.
They certainly have a broad range of opinion covered via their presenters but it does makes you wonder what their office parties are like.
😉
Ian Murray on BBC newsnight but no SNP rep to debate with him
Auld Rock says:
The perfect plan ….. the SNP agrees to field no candidates in England and Wales, in return Labour will field no candidates in Scotland! 🙂
I note Henry McLeish has come out in support of McDonnnell’s position.
Bbc radio 4 The World Tonight- listen to the bile of Tom Harris ex Labour MP now writer for a Tory paper and regular on BBC programmes such as Shereen.
His hatred of the SNP is more marked than I have heard in a long time, his Unionist credentials for all to see. His disdain of Scotland without question
For me this is the type of guy that destroyed labour in Scotland.
No surrender , no referendum , no democracy– suck it up Scotland.
Hope someone can record it for all to hear.
Sinky @ 10-58pm
Don’t have a problem with there being no SNP representative present.This is..after all..an internal UK Lab/Scots Lab fight.
Hamish100 says:
Makes me wonder who they think their audience is for all this bollocks and bile?
Who do they think is going to be impressed for persuaded?
How can nasty creeps spitting venom possibly be an appealing advert for their Union?
They are doing sterling work for the Indy cause! Keep it up! 😉
I think they are rattled 🙂
link to irishtimes.com
“The UK will leave the European Union in October without a divorce deal causing a severe economic shock”
As was the case with the James O’brien radio phone in show, the Unionist side rarely talk in terms of ‘Divorce’, even though, as in the example above, it is a commonly used way to describe a political separation.
Everyone knows all about divorces of course, about breakdown and separation, which is precisely why The Unionist side avoids it. Divorce is normal. Independence is normal. The Union is what is not normal.
Divorce proceedings ahead. It is time.
Robert Peffers@10.31pm
Sounds bloody awful. Hope you can get it fixed pronto.
That is outstanding radio. Even the bits in-between.
.
Stu.,
Valiant attempt at trying to get a word in she-ways to this eejit who loves his own voice.
James O’Brien has hosted some genuinely good interviews..
But this programme is a 1 out of 10 FAIL.
James O’Brien KEEPS INTERRUPTING GUESTS WITH HIS OWN RANDOM UNIONIST WAFFLE AND VAGUE DISJOINTED THOUGHTS.
WHAT AN UTTER BELL END OF A SHIT SHOW.
Stu., normally if you are on, I persevere through some horribly abominable presenters, but this oxygen thief had me scunnered.
Just gave up and switched off.
James, if you read this, please get a grip – and no I do not want to hold your hand as a fellow Yoon.
On the subject of your asking Yoons to phone in to support you. Do you not think that is the part of your problem? The vast majority of your callers are pro-democracy and want Scotland to govern itself!
THE MAJORITY OF SCOTS NOW WANT A SECOND INDEPENDENCE REFERENDUM.
Our Scottish Government is currently putting the IndyRef2 legislation in place. Stuff your section 30 order, WE WILL HAVE OUR INDYREF2.
There is nothing your dreadful London Yoon ham radio efforts, nor Union Alistair Jackery, nor BoJo Britannia can do to stop us.
Indeed, when Scotland is Independent and back in the EU, there will be as many English refugees seeking Scottish passports as the current 25,000 extra passport seeking folk from England that have been overwhelming the Republic of Ireland passport office begging for an Eire EU passport instead of the feckless blue English passport post-Brexit.
Best check yer granny or grandpa is Scottish, otherwise Kent is as far as you will be going for your holidays. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Dave McEwan Hill @ 23:11,
No surprise there. I just wish McLeish would really surprise us and finally come out for indy (not just indyref or the even-weaker “indyref permission”).
Is there absolutely no-one in the NorthBritLab “upper echelons” who has the insight and courage to stand up on their hind legs and “go the whole hog” before it’s all too late? By doing so they might even save their party.
Robert J Sutherland@12.09am
Good post.
I can answer your question for you. No there is no one in the Britnat Labour Party in Scotland. Best not waste your time hoping for someone to see the light.
Henry McLeish has been saying stuff like this for years, he once walked into Alex Salmond’s office and stated “if the UK continues like this I’ll throw in with your lot”
That was nearly 20 years ago and his Arse is stuck on the same fence post like the good little Laboural Democrat that he is
Once we win he’ll say he was on our side all along and can he get a job at yapping in a quango
The London controlled unionist parties at Westminster (all Scottish Parties support independence) claim that the indyref 2 vote is only valid if the SNP have a majority by themselves.
Unfortunately for them even if the Greens abstained the SNP would have won a majority by themselves. The only alternative narrative is no matter how the Greens vote they are using it as an anti indy vote.
Of course if the SNP & Greens are not allowed to tally their vote it must be equally true that the three unionist parties cannot tally theirs either.
It is clear that there is a majority for indyref at Holyrod no matter how you cut the cake.
They know this so they are now gong down the you can only vote if you have England’s permission. This is the reality as the SNP also have a Scottish majority at Westminster, I suppose it could be Wales or NI but it doesn’t matter it is other countries denying Scottish democracy.
I listen to LBC – excluding the freaks – and normally to Jo’B in the mornings. On Brexit his mind slowly opened up as he learned more and more. Which is what open minds are supposed to do.
He admits his knowledge of Scotland’s Politics was practically nil [and let’s face it, unless you know the underworld of our indy websites, we Scots would be in the same boat.
He has moved from the horrors of ‘losing Scotland'[my pet hate] to feeling ‘at home’in Scotland [ok] but that Scotland is ‘like a room in MY home’ with a locked door.
Oh dear, still that Colonial ownership [which I contacted him about] but by the end of the hour of excellent supporters of Indy, his brain was on the move; some of the myths being scrapped. There is hope! [interview time, Stu???]
Also debate on Indy2 continued till 11pm. OK, some of the comments and commentators were parroting the same old garbage; pensions, currency, subsidy junkies, – they just hadn’t a clue, BUT there was more relevant discussion than in 6 months of BBC Shortbread.
More positive steps from an unexpected source. All wwere ‘when’ not ‘if’.
WGD:- ‘It doesn’t take a generation to change your mind.’
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
If the SNP win the next general election then Scotland are entitled to hold a referendum, they’re now saying
Well I’m afraid that’s not what I’m saying or even thinking because once again the Unionists want to dictate the timing and terms of Scotland’s constitutional future to suit them and their machinations around their Westminster power trips, and well that’s just not on
I’m not in the SNP to wait until the Labour or Tory party in England decide whenever I get to have a say in my own country just so they can do what Westminster always does which is kick the can down the road some more miles and years until we’re all dead or they get time to invent more tricks to stop us
The announcement will be made this year without prevarication or consultation with Westminster parties
Nicola Sturgeon! make it so!
Or I’ll be settin phasers tae malky
The rectitude of scotgov and the FM in their dealings with the UK, esp. during brexit, and their dealings with the media, even in the light of clear bad-acting, has been near absolute.
– the nationalists have been restless, myself included, wanting them to “do something”
(I was thinking of this in a cosy bath, the thunderous rain banging off the roof, oddly tranquil …)
those of you who love strategy and sun tzu and so on, consider this one : “the side effect was the true objective”
the worrying notion in the public mind that “scotland needs permission from england” for an indyref, via s30 has taken root; the arguments “scottish people are sovereign – we dont need one”/ yes we do itll be like catalonia … ring constantly
the ashcroft poll looks like a turning point, where we can establish clear distance
– the UK deep state know how things run and their current idea – an atlanticist isolationist island state with north sea oil and finance – does not work if they lose our resources – they cannot ever agree to an s30 run fairly
– labour, if it gets into power via SNP, gives an s30, loses Scotland will swiftly be out of govt themselves and probably never recover, so
ANOTHER S30 CAN -NEVER- BE ALLOWED BY ANY UK GOVT LED BY ANY UK PARTY – ITS NOT HAPPENING
demand for an S30, with ever rising support for independence will be the consequence; the ordinary english, totally ignorant of how things really work, will become incandescent about the “whining jocks – lets get rid of the grievance peddling haggis munchers”
– we will bang on about it constantly, boring everyone to tears – S30 now, the refusals ever more shrill
the FM will, finally succumb to democratic will and DEFY the UK – clearly as a last, desperate resort, the moral high ground occupied, the UK govt smeared in bad PR …
– but in a clever way
– she will announce INDYREF#2 -WITHOUT AN S30- but put completely under the auspices and control of an impartial, international body consisting of UN, EU, US state dept. – jimmy carter if he’s still alive
– it will be arranged, policed, and COUNTED by third parties; the UK, nor even scottish local authorities, nor any agency of them or affiliated to them, will not have their sticky fingers anywhere near it
– we may even have a “token” UN security force to deal with any provocateurs, troublemakers
– “the man in the bowler hat refused to obey a direct order sir – so I shot him …”
– “good man”!
– “then after emptying the magazine, I reloaded … ”
(ooh, err, missus)
and if we WIN, the result will immediately be recognised by both the UN and EU because they were the ones to run it
Scotland joins the family of nations, an EU member, a NATO member; peacefully, democratically and not relying on fair play from a gang of psychopaths
the english have pissed off the entire world – even the americans have no time for them, and israel has open contempt; slavishly doing what you are told is not a special relationship. And you can always bring up 1776, the boston tea party or 1812 where the british burned the whitehouse. They are a busted flush – their hard power does not exist autonomously, their soft power is grossly exaggerated – by them alone, and even their dirty tricks is low-grade – “tommy sheridans 9 IN A BED SHAME” and “BIG LEXO and his BENNY HILL antics” … no one is buying it – what next, hack some diddys laptop and stick child porn on the hard drive?
I think this is the way it will go, and there is nothing they can do about it – even if they know about it; grant an S30 and you cannot renege on the result (and this time, half of Scotland has its eyes wide open for dirty tricks) – force a “wildcat” poll and you can no longer influence it.
link to youtube.com
I think it will go great, nothing can stop us.
Does JK Rowling ever find herself perspiring and her face going red when she takes a wee peek at the written statement she made in relation to Scottish Independence in 2014? In particular when she reads the last sentence? In light of her professed love for Scotland, will she have the sense to change her mind now and if so, the grit to let us know?
link to independent.co.uk
52% Yes, without counting a hugely pro indy demographic (16/17year olds) and a very likely complete reversal from No to Yes amongst EU Nationals, and Yes support is more accurately heading to 60% Yes
Journo’s from The Times, of all places, defending the right of Scots to choose our democracy and shutting down hysterical pish spewing fron a rabid brexiter right wing, Scotland/SNP hating zoomer.
The Labour Deputy leader chopping the legs from mr potato head…sorry, Richard Leonard, by backing our right to decide (yeah yeah, we all know he does not mean it, but he has to say it as labour on latest polling are due to win ZERO seats, as are the Tories (55 SNP seats V 4 LIBDEMS).
And that is off 49% of the vote as well, so very close to the magical 50% of voters.
And THAT buried WM gov poll, rumoured to be 57% Yes and no information if the 2 demographic groups mentioned earlier were asked !
Not so many shrieking about “NS must do something” or “call the indyref” now, after that poll.
The next poll will be interesting as the full Johnson as PM effect comes into play for that one.
Sure, he could call a GE, and sure, he could win a majority, but if polling is accurate then he loses ALL 13 Scottish MP’s and watches as Labour also get wiped out in Scotland, as the SNP gains ALL 20 lab/Tory seats back.
And that sends a very clear message that Scotland ain’t having it.
So even if he wins, he is completely discredited in Scotland, at THE worse time possible for his precious union.
Nicola and her team’s tactics have been absolutely perfect to get us to here.
Sporting analogy:
Last week, in the F1 GP, Lewis Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind the leader, with about 18 laps to go, when his team boss told him to pit for new, faster tyres.
Hamilton was raging initially as Verstappen up front did not come in for tyres right away, and by not doing so, lost the chance to change tyres and come out in front of Hamilton.
So the leader (Verstappen) had to hope his tyres lasted the race duration, but they were losing rubber faster than ‘Scottish’ Labour lose voters.
Hamilton was catching up 2-3 seconds a lap on new faster tyres, and easily caught the leader with 4 laps to go, and won at a canter.
Irony was, Verstappen had to pit for tyres to even finish the race as he had zero rubber left and would have suffered a blow out in the last 3 laps, and finishing last.
Point ?
Hamiltons team made a strategic move that nobody seen coming, as they left it so the other team in the lead had no time to react, and by the time they realised what had happened, the race was gone.
If they had even one more lap to react, they would have immediayely brought their car in and the last 13/14 laps would have been a real fight for the lead and win, which Verstappen would have likely won as he had more pace all day long.
And that highlights why NS/SNP are keeping the plan under wraps until WM have no time to react to close off the move when it comes.
52% and rising, and all we had to do was let them fuck it up.
Imagine what will happen when the move is made, to these polls, as the floodgates of enthusiastic and excited Yessers open, and really get to it.!!
Cannot wait.
I agreed with the woman who said that ‘we’ switch off the BBC and listen to LBC. I’ve been listening to LBC for donkeys for that reason. BBC Scotland? Yuk! I’ve also caught John Nicolson on Talk Radio a few times recently.
Just reading the National and it appears the Tories are running the old ad with Corbyn in Nicola’s pocket. Suggestion in the article is that we should run an ad of Boris in Arelene Foster’s pocket. Anybody good on Photoshop, cause that would be a useful image to have.
Will that do you, Kangaroo?
Going the full Borisconi. This is quite an astonishing read.
link to silverdoctors.com
The thing that must scare the yoons the most, is they know they’ve used their best arguments, but the desire for indy keeps growing. At some point, some will possibly see they are on the wrong side of history, but it is extremely difficult for reason to penetrate intransigent nationalism. That’s your 20% hardcore authoritarian nationalists who would never surrender (see Scotland in Union).
I hope Dugdale is following my comments, as I think she could learn a thing or to. She might find this stuff helpful to her new job in that new think-tank.
Rawls’ Mature Theory of Social Justice
An Introduction for Students
link to people.wku.edu
I’m not simply taking the piss out of Dugdale, not simply, I truly want to help. Her job is to foster political engagement, which can only foster awareness of Scotland’s lack of democratic justice. Is Dugdale one of our deep moles? 😉
Truth, Reason and Justice: Epistemology and Politics
in Evidence Discourse
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
I don’t think Dugdale is a particularly virtuous individual worthy of much compassion, but I do support her task of encouraging political engagement.
Political Self-Determination and the Normative Significance of Territorial Boundaries
link to seis.bristol.ac.uk
Well heres something that will get the blood boiling
link to peterjnorth.blogspot.com
Confused @ 1.11am
I did like your script there, and cannot wait for the movie.
As you say, no Westminster Party can ever agree to a Section 30 order; they know, without us subsidising them, England is buggered.
Those two from Wimbledon and milton keynes are the typical English supremacist types the disease festering England as it had the potential to be better and yet people like those 2 hold it back the conservatives are proof of that then theres ukip and the brexit party which is ukip 2.0 those lot running in Westminster is why England is the bad guy they are the problem not the soulution.
Kangaroo that link its like the worst English supremacist rant ive ever read its not untill the 4th from last paragraph does the nail gets hit as upto that point it looks like nothing but English conservative propaganda london rule dont even work for England well my problem is the English ignored that problem like it wasnt even there and now they doomed themselves to tory rule so why should Scotland stay in a political union that dont even work in England.
Re the link from Kangaroo;
This should be circulated far and wide.
I’m delighted with the sentiments expressed as they work both ways in the Indy conversation, especially in encouraging England to think of itself as a stand alone independent from Scotland (sorry Wales, haven’t forgotten about you).
Listened to around half of the programme.
O’Brian’s style and content is absolutely low grade English slop talk. That together with him talking over everyone makes the programme, at least for me, low rent.
@Petra says: 7 August, 2019 at 9:23 pm:
” … Have a listen to Ian Murray. Not happy about O’Donnell using the term “English Parliament” (which it is), English colleagues coming north of the border and so on.
link to mobile.twitter.com
I listened to him, Petra, and what struck me about his nonsense was the number of times he spoke about, “Scottish Labour”. There is no such party registered as a political party in the United Kingdom. Neither is there, “English Labour”, registered as a party. Neither party exists nor is there a Parliament of England but that doesn’t stop Westminster acting as if there was.
JOHNSON’S GOVERNMENT IS JUST A BRAINWASHING MACHINE.
link to theguardian.com
With apparently a great deal of power and influence in 10 Downing Street, Dominic Cummings is the personification of the unelected beaurocrats in the EU about whom Vote Leave was founded. Which only demonstrates that ‘taking back control’ was, and still is, just a piece of brainwashing in a figment of PR imagination.
“Rebel MPs are working on a plan to thwart Boris Johnson pursuing a no-deal Brexit on 31 October that involves forcing parliament to sit through the autumn recess, amid growing outrage about the power and influence of his controversial aide, Dominic Cummings.
The cross-party group of MPs is looking at legislative options with mounting urgency because of the hardline tactics of Cummings, who one Conservative insider described as running a “reign of terror” in No 10 aimed at achieving Brexit on 31 October at any cost.”
For brief perspective…
The UK has another old Etonian, unelected Prime Minister with colourful history of gaffs, borderline International Incidents, and being sacked for dishonesty. He is a racist, misogynist, far right sociopath who allies himself with the views of Farage, Trump and Steve Bannon.
He has appointed as Home Secretary an advocate of the Death Penalty, and who has openly expressed her intention to use her office to promote fear an terror to assert her control.
The UK Government operates a snoopers charter on internet traffic and social media, is up to it’s neck with the Cambridge Analytica scandal where data was harvested for political manipulation, implicated in Dark Money improprieties, with various instances of law breaking being ineffectively regulated by an Electoral Commission.
The whole UK has no impartial mainstream news or political affairs programming, but instead a propaganda network on a multi billion state budget which routinely spurns Freedom of Information requests and obfuscates complaints.
The US Holocaust Memorial Museum has a sign depicting the 14 Early Signs of Fascism in 1930’s Nazi Germany.
1. Continual Nationalism
2. Disdain for Human Rights.
3. Sees Enemies as a Unifying cause.
4. Supremacy of the Military.
5. Rampant Sexism.
6. Controlled Mass Media.
7. Obsession with National Security.
8. Religion Intertwined with Government.
9. Corporate Power Protected.
10. Labour Power Supressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption.
14. Fraudulent Eletions.
This “Government”, and indeed its “Shadow Government”, are competing to outdo each other to exercise the colonial subjugation of Scotland’s Sovereignty, and deconstruct the democratic process in Scotland by preventing referendums taking place. That constitutes the wilful suppression of democracy and some our own MP’s and MSP’s are not even embarrassed to lobby for it. Think about that.
This “Government”, and indeed its “Shadow Government”, are competing to outdo each other to undermine the Internationally ratified Peace Treaty of the Good Friday Agreement, and pursue a deliberate and calculated strategy to blame the disruption and consequences onto Europe.
The UK is not sliding toward Fascism, it is striding purposefully towards it, and is currently mechanically deconstructing the control mechanisms which might contain it.
Let me repeat those 14 Signs of Fascism in their Scottish Context.
1. Flags. The deliberate intention to have Union Flags proliferate. Been to the Supermarket?
2. The UK has been condemned by withering criticism from the UN on lamentable human rights.
3. Immigrants and foreigners are blamed for the UK’s problems.
4. The UK is provoking trouble in the Gulf, builds Aircraft Carriers and nukes it cannot afford.
5. Rampant Sexism… it’s prevalent.
6. Controlled media. BBC. Say no more.
7. Obsession National Security. Snoopers Charter.
8. Religion in Government… Think Orange and the division it creates.
9. Corporate Power Protected. No explanation required. Look at Scottish CEO appointments.
10. Labour Power Supressed. Process ongoing since Thatcher.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and Arts. Scotland suffers disdain of entire culture.
12. Obsession Crime and Punishment.. Especially if you’re SNP, guilty or not.
13. Rampant Corruption & Cronyism. Just look at the Scottish Office.
14. Fraudulent Elections. Hands up who respects the 2014 result?
If Scotland doesn’t use Brexit to break the Union, we are heading for some very dark times. The International Community is already alert to this. It watches. We should use their perspective.
As a final word… Go through that list of 14 again from a Scottish perspective, and it’s clear to see that Scotland is virtually the antithesis of Fascism. The Union of Scotland and England is increasingly an oil and water relationship where the two components are intrinsically incompatible.
Kangaroo also said, referring to Pete North’s piece:
“Exactly, it’s condescending bullshit and a belief in a superior England that knows best.
There’s so much wrong with it I don’t know where to begin. The ignorance of political cultures other than your own is evident Pete. Stick to what you know about, from your own personal experience, and don’t try and bridge the gap by projecting your own ignorance on to others and then trying to make a coherent case. It simply doesn’t work.
What Pete thinks of the EU as lacking in democratic legitimacy goes ten times as much for those not living in the home counties. We are ignored and told what to do by people who don’t even live in our neighbourhood. Then we have to pay the bills for their projects like cross Rail, M25, channel tunnel, HS1&2 and new sewers, crikey we even had to pay for the London Olympics. Scotland paid for the Glasgow Commonwealth Games but Birmingham gets a handout from Westminster. F that for a lark, we’re offsky, but we’ll still be good friends and neighbours, hopefully this will be reciprocated.”
Well done, Kangaroo.
I quite like James O’Brian , but he drivels on in this and shows his ignorance of his ‘beloved ‘Scotland.
Well done to all those who contributions articulated thoughts so well.
‘Speaking to reporters before he left Washington, Trump dismissed critics who have suggested that his rhetoric on race and immigration is partly to blame for a rise in hate-inspired violence, such as that in El Paso…His comments came as he left the White House on a day-long trip that risked stoking divisions rather than bringing the country together after the pair of mass shootings…The shooter in El Paso allegedly posted an essay online with language that closely mirrors Trump’s rhetoric, as well as the language of the white nationalist movement, including a warning about the “Hispanic invasion of Texas.”
Trump and his aides have denied any connection between his rhetoric — he frequently refers to illegal immigration as “an invasion” — and the shootings.
link to washingtonpost.com
‘As my sufferings mounted I soon realized that there were two ways that I could respond to my situation: either to react with bitterness or seek to transform the suffering into a creative force’.
Martin Luther King. A testament of hope.
‘I have learnt through bitter experience the one supreme lesson to conserve my anger and as heat conserved is transmuted into energy, even so our anger controlled can be transmuted into a power which can move the world’.
Mahatma Gandhi link to gandhiashramsevagram.org
We can combat a nationalism that has its roots in racist ideology, class supremacy with a civic nationalism that is rooted in the language and actions of social justice and core humanitarian empathic values. Good individuals can make a difference in the world but a movement of good individuals can change the world.
@Petra says:7 August, 2019 at 9:29 pm:
” … More from Murray. A raging wee man. ….
link to mobile.twitter.com“
Dear me! Now Murray is talking about a Scottish Labour Manifesto. So he imagines a party that doesn’t exist has a manifesto. Then he claims that Boris needs to refer the question of Brexit back to the people as the people have changed their minds and in the same breath states Scots don’t get the chance to change their minds because they voted to remain part of the UK in 2014.
When I was at school the teacher called those who thought like that as having grasshopper minds.
All Ian Murray cares about is Ian Murray. Like a lot of them. Johnson will not last until October. A GE will bring in the majority SNP. Some kind of anti Brexit Alliance in Westminster. Then another IndyRef. The de coupling will take some time but Scotland will be better off Independent in the EU. What the majority want.
Potential nuclear regional war between two British commonwealth states over a country whose citizens have been denied the right to choose freely their future for 70 years.
Once again the United Nations proves itself useless in such situations and the ‘big powers’ including the EU look away too.
Those who fancy the UN might intervene on Scotland’s side should the going get tough,….in this world, as a small country, you’re on your own.
@Ian Brotherhood says: 7 August, 2019 at 10:32 pm
” … It’s unfair to attack James O’Brien on the basis of such a short extract. He can’t be expected to share your knowledge.”
Oh! Come on! O’Brian is well paid to do his job and should prepare for any particular programme. I don’t get paid and it isn’t my job to know what I’m talking about.
If a plumber, a joiner or an electrician didn’t learn the facts of their job not only would they get the sack but if they made misstates that harmed anyone or caused anyone extra expense they could be prosecuted for working on systems they were not qualified to work on. It is O’Brien’s job to know the facts.
Broadcasting is full of charlatans, particularly in Scotland, who should not be allowed anywhere near a camera or microphone and what is even worse some of them do know the facts and still lie about them.
O’Brian is better than most but still leaves a lot to be desired. Note also how quickly he got shot of Rev Stu. Now consider that he could have had his listener figures go through the roof by just discussing Scottish politics a while longer with Stu but made bloody sure he wasn’t going to do that. Why do you think that was the case?
By the way it was not necessarily O’Brian what cut Stu short. Remember O’Brian has a wee earpiece in his lug and gets instructions, and information, from the team in the control room and id did seem rather as if it was the control room that cut Stu short. Go listen to it again and you will hear what I mean.
So there is the story about broadcasting – the person phoning in is usually on their own but the presenter has a whole team backing them up all aided by computer search engines to get facts from.
Just how long do you think it took the control room to check out Stu and Wings then decide to shut Stu down?
To add Mr peffers , the ability to get a wee pal to phone in and splutter ‘but he lives in Bath , he has no right to be supporting independence’
At least Mr O’Brian squelched that caller.
The Union of Scotland and England is a political marriage. It was also an ‘arranged’ marriage – by the English. I’ll stop short at calling it a ‘forced’ marriage. Perhaps ‘bribed’ would be a better term.
In any event, the Union has rarely been a happy one, and could never be described as a ‘marriage made in heaven’. Made in Hell would be more appropriate. Furthermore, the marriage went downhill quickly, and has stayed there ever since. What has ‘kept the marriage together’ has been an endless stream of empty promises, coupled with a regular application of threats and warnings. Not to labour the point, but Scotland’s Union with England has forever been one of serial abuse by it’s ever growing and bullying English partner. Now some 55 million strong compared to Scotland’s 5 million, the possibility of establishing a true democracy in their relationship never truly existed. Much more could and has been said about the overwhelming one-sided nature of the Union, not least about England coveting Scotland’s mineral inheritance nor it’s deep denial of its many failings of character, nor of it’s superior and contemptuous attitude toward the Scots, but we will not add further to that here.
The present condition of the political marriage of Scotland and England is now such, that divorce is the only just and reasonable solution, not least because England has undergone such a deterioration in its political perspective, that the two countries are now facing in two completely different directions. That’s how marriages fall apart. This one is no exception.
The UK population understands perfectly that marriages often fail and that divorce is very often the only and obvious solution. Such widespread familiarity with marriage breakdown is largely why the Westminster Establishment and its media will not discuss the Union using terms like marriage and divorce, because then, Scotland’s desire for Independence would all to easily be understood and accepted everywhere.
Divorce. It is time.
Mary Lou McDonald says Sinn Fein can’t stop Brexit
link to youtube.com
I sympathise with her view that the English want Brexit and should allowed to get on with it. Her view is Ireland needs to protect herself because England isn’t going to.
I van understand why the SNP wanted to attempt soften Brexit, however the time has now come to put Scotland first. The English can’t be saved from themselves.
Dorothy Devine says:
8 August, 2019 at 8:04 am
I quite like James O’Brian , but he drivels on in this and shows his ignorance of his ‘beloved ‘Scotland.
Well done to all those who contributions articulated thoughts so well.
If I was to wade in to an argument about the London Mayor or Congestion charges, I don’t expect it would take very long before lack of knowledge and detached perspective would reveal itself. I would give James O’Brien full marks for having the courage to walk in where angels fear to tread and go some of the way towards doing the subject justice.
It might not sound to us like he was doing it justice, but a % of his audience were hearing views they’d never heard before, and some of the beliefs they’d never even had reason to question have suddenly evolved into beliefs they have reason to doubt.
I suspect even James O’Brien’s own opinions evolved in the same programme.
Couldn’t we just try getting along better? He seemed to be asking us, but this Brexit themed departure from reason is largely a uniquely “British” and English initiative, foisted upon people who didn’t even think a referendum on Europe was necessary, nevermind the self harming catastrophe of Brexit actually happening.
That’s what happens when an English supermajority in Westminster forces it’s cumbersome will and self centred perceptions on the wider UK conglomerate. Suddenly Scotland is expected to go along with some rank stupidity that is utterly alien to Scotland’s political landscape, and Scotland weeps because of its toothless capacity to say no.
Try to get along Mr O’Brien? England is just being England. A supermajority in parliament is just doing what a supermajority does. It squashes the perpetual minority. Don’t take it as a hatred Mr O’Brien, don’t take it personally at all. The Union is simply a game that is always rigged against Scotland, and Brexit is just the final proof that many needed to see it.
We’re not creating discord and grievance, we’re putting a longstanding incongruous injustice to right, and the world will be a better and more stable place when it’s done.
Ian Murray is just another of these sham socialists (pseudo socialist) demanding self determination around the world but against it for their own country. It’s simple really he wants to keep his large salary and hob-nob with who he sees as the big boys in Westminster.
It has nothing to do with socialism it’s about himself and his political career, he knowns Labour are moribund in Scotland but if he can hold his seat he may still get a juicy job at Westminster if England elects Labour.
He hates nationalism but will in the end stand behind Boris Johnson as he drags Scotland out of the EU, I’m sure there must be some word that describes a politician that would knowingly harm his own country.
Borisconi’ That’s a good one for future use.
More Nana’s links here:
link to indyref2.space
jfngw@9:38
A name for a politician who willingly harms their own country.
How about this?
A patrirot.
I take great comfort in the knowledge that one of LBC’s researchtewam is reading this, and giving feeback to James O’Brien.
I think that he’ll be surprised by the additional tens of thousands of online listeners his wee chat show has attracted by being featured on Stu Campbell’s excellent WoS Blog.
May I suggest that it should be required reading for this lad, given his self confessed ignorance of all things Scottish and Irish (and Welsh?) during the programme.
A couple of things: England does not have a population of 80 million, more like 56 million.
Govan Scotstoun and Rosyth are NOT building the promised frigates, despite O’Brien taking the fake news intervention as fact.
James, you constantly intervened ‘Yes, but- ting’ in that louche Thames Estuary drawl, declaring your love for Scotland…Aye, right.
That’ll make the 260,000 Scottish children living in English Parliament engineered poverty feel a lot better; their bellies will swell with love. Well, your love and a dime gets you on the ‘bus?
WE are asking no one’s ‘permission’.
The S30 smokescreen, the continuing lie that we Scots citizens need your permission (as an Englishman) to return to Self Determination is just the usual Imperialist nonsense that is fed to us through the Dead Tree Scrolls and the broadcasters, especially, but not exclusively, the BBC.
I had a wee laugh when you mused that their would not be the appetite for Independence if Gordon Brown or Ken Clark were PM.
Jeez, you seriously need to research the politics of the last half century, James.
Brown is a laughing stock Up Here.
Old Ken was one of Maggie’s Hit Men.
There shall be a plebiscite. We will prevail.
Anyone wanting to move to Free Scotland is welcome.
We’re going to need skilled folk when Nissan Toyota Jaguar Land Rover and Vauxhall open factories Up Here.
Self Determination is natural, James.
I’ll quote a line from Burns: you can Google the whole poem.
” It’s comin’ yet for a’ that.’
You can’t get more ‘international’ than our Bard.
Seen this snippet in the Daily Heilagraph , behind a paywall so cant read the rest of ut, this wee bit was enough !!
Quote
This is tough right now, being a proud and loyal British subject who has lived in, and loved, Ireland for more than 60 years. What is tough is watching the ridiculous behaviour of the Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and his foreign minister, Simon Coveney, trying to destroy, like wilful children, relations with an ancient and friendly neighbour.
Whatever faults the British may have, they understand independence and freedom. I can understand why they mock the ridiculous behaviour of these two men. Varadkar and Coveney are both members of Fine Gael, a party that has its roots in the fight 100 years ago to secure independence and freedom for Ireland. Yet now here they are trying to block the UK’s path to…
Unquote
What feckin planet does the author live in?
a referendum is not for division
a referendum is for decision
Brilliant summary of the signing of the tragedy of the Treaty from an 1880 account:
link to twitter.com
Brilliant posts this morning.
In particular Jack Collatin, Breeks, manandboy,Robert Peffers,geeo and confused.
Wee question for Ian Murray… As the UK slides towards fascism, why is he content to be in the vanguard of those constructively dismantling democracy in Scotland? Are you being made to do that Mr Murray? Are you under duress to advocate closing down democratic processes? Do you consider yourself an elected MP first and Fascist second, or vice versa?
When your own tenure in office expires, do you intend to stand for reelection, or put an armed guard at the gate and oppose fresh elections indefinitely as other tin pot dictators are prone to do?
Part time democrat, part time dictator, which wolf is being fed?
Time for you to come up the road, Rev. There’s some English bloke in Wimbledon who thinks he pays for you to live in Bath.
[Smacks head off table].
kapelmeister says:
That SHOULD be the case. However we’ve had two referendums which have failed to deliver clear and understood decisions.
In both the cases of IndyRef1 and EURef, the winning option was won on the basis of a load of woolly bollocks which was never intended to be, or could not be, delivered.
A referendum should be about a clearly defined change option versus a no-change/status quo option. Neither of the recent ones offered that. Folks are still arguing what Leave meant. By voting day for IndyRef1 the NO option certainly wasn’t being promoted as status quo!
Badly run referendums mean the winners are pleased, but the losers question the legitimacy of result and are left looking for a rerun.
That historical account of the signing of the Treaty I linked to above 10.23 is from the website Random Scottish History a Pre-1900 Book Collection of Scottish Literature, History, Art & Folklore.
https://randomscottishhistory.com
A couple of months ago Scottish Labour came fifth in the Euro elections with 9% of the vote and they didn’t win a seat.
Yet Richard Leonard and Ian Murray took that as an emphatic endorsement of Labour’s opposition to an indyref.
Excellent post Breeks (7:56am). Boris Johnston has surrounded himself with bunch of lackeys that mirror himself, his far right beliefs, however the most chilling of all (other than Dominic Cummings) must be Priti Patel who is now in charge of the Home Office.
‘Priti Patel, Who Lobbied for UK Aid to Israel, Appointed Home Secretary by Boris Johnson.’
…”Priti Patel is a politician with a consistent record of voting against basic human rights protections. For her to be put in charge of the Home Office is extremely concerning,” Clare Collier, advocacy director at the human rights group Liberty told the Guardian Thursday….
Many responded with shock at the appointment, Guardian and Al-Jazeera contributor Hicham Yezza said: “Priti Patel — fired for endangering UK national security through rogue meetings with a foreign power and lying to the Prime Minister about it — has been made Home Secretary, in charge of … UK national security. Even by Boris Johnson’s abysmal standards this is utterly shocking.”…..
link to telesurenglish.net
…………………………….
‘Home Secretary.’
link to en.wikipedia.org
……………………………..
‘Hitler Cabinet.’
link to en.wikipedia.org
Where’s the Queen when you need her, lol?
Dominic Grieve:- “The Queen would have to sack him.”
link to twitter.com
And from Nana:-
link to politico.eu
……………….
link to bylinetimes.com
……………………..
Business Sec @sajidjavid was one of the CDO traders whose activities fuelled global crisis
link to twitter.com
OT but an absolute cracker of a long letter by L McGregor in the National today
And a great one by a teacher too!
As a teacher I have to give the lady a round of heartfelt applause!
@Confused
The kikes have open contempt for the guffies? That must be like being told to fuck off by Ebola.
‘Dominic Cummings, the latest self-appointed genius to run 10 Downing Street, is the most deluded of them all.’
…..”Cummings is merely the latest in a long line of geniuses to run things for the Conservatives in 10 Downing Street. First there was Andy Coulson, whose genius took him to prison.”…
link to independent.co.uk
……………….
Oh well I see that some of Nana’s links that I tried to post previously haven’t appeared. It would be great, if when you visit her site, if you could repost the link / s on here, folks. Thanks.
link to indyref2.space
Taken from Nana’s links:-
Martin J Keatings:-”So John McDonnell MP has said labour would be open to allowing a second referendum. There are several points I would make on that front.”
”It is not the purview of any Westminster politician to dictate when Scotland has a vote on the constitutional question. While the matter may be reserved in terms of constitution, UK law is SUBORDINATE to international law and to international treaties.
So important is the right to self-determination the the United Nations made it the first paragraph of the first article in the first part of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights ratified by resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966 under article 49.”..
link to twitter.com
From Nana’s links.
Professor John Robertson:- ”With North Sea revenues apportioned on a population basis, all four areas have relatively stable shares. For England up until 2014-15 the range was 86.1% to 86.7%; for Wales it was 3.4% to 3.7%; for Scotland it was 7.7% to 8.1%; and for Northern Ireland it was 2.1% to 2.3%.”..
The above is from:
link to assets.publishing.service.gov.uk …
Do I correctly understand this to reveal the extent to which Scottish oil subsidises the rest of the UK?
link to twitter.com
Labour and indyref2
From the Herald online just now: Labour would block a Yes/No question in indyref2. They want multiple choice according to Mr Sweeney.
From the article:
“”A LABOUR government at Westminster would block a straight Yes/No question in a second independence referendum, it has emerged.
“”Shadow Scottish minister Paul Sweeney said there should be a multiple-choice question instead, with a federal United Kingdom as one of the options.
“”The Glasgow North East MP told BBC Radio Scotland a Labour government would deliver “a radical transformation and federate the United Kingdom”.
“”He said: “That of course should be a question in that referendum in future. It shouldn’t just be a binary referendum, and we’ll be backing that option.” “””
…..
If the *British* Labour party have now realised they don’t need the Scottish branch office to win general elections and they know that Labour in Scotland can’t beat the SNP why would they consider anything they have to say
So knowing this, people like Richard Leonard Ian Murray and Paul Sweeney go into panic mode because no Labour in Scotland means no job in Scotland or Westminster for anybody from Labour in Scotland
The best hope for the main office of Labour in England is to cross their fingers and hope to do deals with the party in Scotland who win and that’s the SNP, that’s why Ian Murray is producing his convoluted mathematics on parliamentary numbers involving the SNP who he claims were responsible for voting against Labour in the past thereby ushering in Margaret Thatchers Tory government which is a fabricated piece of nonsense debunked many times on this site and by Labour politicians themselves
The only people Ian Murray will convince with this rubbish are those who want to be convinced, but his own party know it’s balderdash and that’s why Labour in Scotland are in the process of being dumped as a lost cause
The person who will lose most from this Labour decision is Ruth Davidson because she will no longer have a willing ally to help her co-ordinate her attacks on the SNP, Ruth Davidson will be left with the Liberal Democrats who she knows can’t be trusted or relied on to help her because the Liberal Democrats are at heart Tories just like her and their ambition is to move up a slot in the pecking order in Scotland to replace her party in Scotland, so the Labour decision to abandon Scotland is a good break for Willie Rennie and his little band of Bouncy Castle jumpers
Watch over the coming weeks for the cracks beginning to appear in the ranks of Labour in Holyrood as the jockeying for positions reveal themselves, Neil (the enforcer) Findlay saw it coming and did a runner, and oh how he hates the SNP even more for a decision that he made himself because of his own ineptitude
The idiot always perceives the competent as the smart alec and unfortunately for Labour the SNP is full of competence
The more denigrating trash talking the opponent does the less confident they are in their own position
We see it now in England with the rebooting of the Nicola Sturgeon thief advertising campaign aimed at the deluded uninformed English voter, well they’ve got to get some xenophobic hatred going rather than the truth haven’t they
Nigel Farage will be so proud of them
If there’s no vote of no confidence in September, Johnson will almost certainly proceed to a cliff jump Brexit.
If there is a vote, and Johnson survives, he will proceed to the cliff.
If there is a vote, and Johnson loses, two scenarios are possible …
i) an alternative government might be formed within 14days. This is highly unlikely to be a Corbyn led Labour one – they don’t have the numbers. It could be a caretaker government of national unity. This will seek a Brexit extension from the EU and call a general election before then.
ii) Johnson clings on long enough to call an election after his cliff jump Brexit
However, what about a general election before October 31st? Labour want one but Johnson can probably avoid it and cling on. Especially because Labour don’t seem keen on a government of national unity because Corbyn wouldn’t lead it.
Any other possible outcomes?
I think the only real chance of hard brexit being avoided now is if a GNU took charge of the situation but Corbyn would never agree to that willingly.
A ‘no hard brexit’ GNU would only have a chance of flying with joint leadership. Corbyn, Swinson and sensible Con remainer e.g. Ken Clarke. In a sane world Sturgeon would also be on board but the ‘Carthage must be destroyed’ mantra of Westminster has always been ‘Scotland will have no say in anything, ever.
Thanks fopr Nana’s Links website url Petra. Now on my favourites bar.
From Nana’s links.
Unbelievable – plus his English accent just gets on my wick:-
”What happens when you ask Tory group leader and Holyrood candidate Tim Eagle if he supports Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s no deal Brexit plan. Watch and find out.”
link to twitter.com
You just cannot get even the most basic and logical arguments across to some people. Here we have a prime example@-
link to youtube.com
Here Indycar Gordon Ross almost gets it right but fails at the first hurdle. His subject in this video is Sovereignty and he has the right idea but fails to clearly make the case by describing the United Kingdom as a union of two countries.
Factually, “The United Kingdom”, is very obviously not a union of countries. As it’s title clearly describes it as a united kingdom, that is a union of kingdoms. Which brings up the also very clear fact that if you unite two kingdoms the total will be a bigger kingdom and in no can it be a country.
The proof of the pudding being the signatories on the document are two kingdoms and one of those signatory kingdoms was originally composed of the three countries that made up the Kingdom, (not the country), of England. Now it is composed of two countries and part of another country that was politically partitioned and remains a partitioned country today.
And that is where the problem of legal sovereignty begins and where it ends. Until 1688 and the English, “Glorious Revolution”, when the parliamentarians of the Kingdom of England rebelled and deposed their legal sovereign monarchy, the rule of law of the three country Kingdom of England was, “The Divine Right of Kings”, by which the sovereign monarch’s word was law and thus the monarch was legally believed to be chosen by God and thus sovereign.
The Glorious Revolution changed this but only slightly for it legally kept the monarch as legally sovereign but being forced to legally delegate their Divine Right of Kings to the parliament of England.
In Scotland the legal situation was very different and it still is. At least 368 years before the English Glorious Revolution the laws of sovereignty in the Kingdom of Scotland had changed forever in 1320 by the Declaration of Arbroath. The declaration not only declared that Scotland was an independent kingdom but it claimed that under Scots law the people of Scotland were legally sovereign and not either the crown or the Scots Parliament.
This, of course, did not change the claimed law of Scotland but it was then internationally recognised as legal by the then international authority of the Holy Roman See.
So, in 1706/7, when the Treaty of Union was signed by the two kingdoms, they had a problem in regards to sovereignty. The two different legal sovereignties were totally incompatible and without some form of compromise there could not be a union but only one or other of the two kingdoms colonising the other kingdom.
A compromise was reached and an article of union, (each article of union is a legal requirement in its own right), stipulates that the two legal systems must remain independent of the other forever.
So there you have the truth and that legal requirement still exists today. In the English Kingdom, (three countries), the monarch of England is legally sovereign but must legally delegate their Sovereignty, (divine right of kings), to the parliament of England. In Scotland neither the crown nor the parliament is sovereign because the people are.
Now here is the hard facts ignored by the Westminster Parliament of, The United Kingdom”.
On 30 April 1707 the English Parliament went into permanent recess and this is recorded in Hansard. There has been no parliament of England ever since – Westminster is the two kingdom United Kingdom Parliament.
In Scotland the old Scots parliament only was prorogued and was reconvened as Holyrood and the People of Scotland are still legally sovereign but there is no parliament of England so on 30April 1707 there could be no legal Parliament of England for the English monarchy to delegate their divine right of kings to.
Thus, if a majority of the people of Scotland decide to end the international treaty of the United Kingdom they legally can do so without anyone’s permission but their own.
Please remember the Treaty of Union is NOT a union of countries it is a bipartite union of Kingdoms.
Ian Dunt:- ”Remainers pointed this out ad nauseum after the referendum but were ignored. If you unilaterally drop your tariffs *before* a trade deal, other countries have got what they want without having to reciprocate.”
Andrea Leadsom getting telt by Pascal Lamy.
”Former WTO chief, Pascal Lamy, 6 June 2016: “Free trade is about negotiations. What will you negotiate? What will you offer to the people you negotiate with? Your policy is zero tariffs. If they have free access to your market, they’re not going to give you anything.”
link to twitter.com
From Nana’s links.
Legerwood says:
And that is something we won’t be seeing anytime soon!
England is now firmly wedded to the right, which is further exaggerated by their FPTP system.
Labour would be in with a chance if they had credible and distinctive policies of their own. That doesn’t look like changing.
Galamcennalath@12.09pm
“If there is a vote and Johnston survives”
There is a very good chance he will survive as Brexit supporting labour MPs vote with him.
@ Petra
I think you are giving yourself a lot of unnecessary work copying and pasting Nana’s links on here.
All people have to do is copy the link provided by Hackalumpoff and add it to their favourites.
I did that when it started and it hasn’t changed since. I don’t have to wait for Hacklumpoff’s daily post, as I can just click the link whenever I wish and peruse the fruits of Nana’s labours at my leisure.
link to theguardian.com
I wonder how long it will take BBC Scotland, Rooth the Mooth, Tricky dicky, wee Willie et al to start screeching and squawking about this…
Not holding my breath.
@Petra
If Tory supporters believe emptying the bins is all that local councils do why do they think they have to vote for them, unless they believe that Tories are more proficient in positions pertaining to refuse
I can’t help myself Hee hee
But!…but a smiling Cameron ruled out a multi question referendum in the ‘three shell game shuffle’ with Salmond way back then and later said oops! and then… F**k!
Now it’s become a thing again…for the Unionist smoke and mirror “don’t look over there” tactics in the last chance saloon. 🙂
PS:
Radio 5 this morning kinda wakes up to Dominic Cummings as the master of the dark arts. 🙂
Someone is busy revising our history on Wikipedia – removing negative facts about the Union e.g. the English Parliament’s actions against the Darien expedition.
link to twitter.com
Cubby says:
Indeed, there are some Labour MPs who subscribe to Johnson’s ‘any Brexit will do’ approach.
Most Tories will back Johnson.
If MPs don’t/can’t stop a cliff jump on the 31st October, then so be it. Scotland has a plan A.
Robert Peffers@12.16pm
You have the patience of a saint.
“Please remember the Treaty of Union is not a Union of countries it is a bipartite union of Kingdoms”
I mean, how hard is it for people to grasp this information and retain it.
Today Willie Rennie talks about *Scotland’s place in *our* country*
Which country is Willie in then because I don’t think the Welsh or the Irish would consider themselves as parts of some other country much less we Scots
4 countries Willie, pick one! or better yet tell the truth
Capella says:
Wiki is a bit of a snake pit at times. It seems the right, worldwide, get free range to apply bias to articles. Often it’s by omission.
An interesting one I came across the other day was on this page …
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
… there is absolutely no mention of the fact that for most of the 20thC the Conservatives only stood in England and Wales. It was their allies, the Scottish Unionists and smaller National Liberals, who stood in Scotland. They all merged into the modern UK Conservatives in 1965.
Why is that significant information missing? It looks to me as if ‘inconvenient’ history has been intentionally omitted.
Elsewhere in Wiki it is covered, however the main UK history page is deficient.
I see Willie Rennie is so desperate for some recognition down south (do unionist politicians dream of ermine gowns, a Blade Runner remake for Scotland (Flayed Bummer)), he is willing to say his country is the UK, a fictitious country similar to Shangri-La. It’s good to see the LibDem’s so in line with the ex Scottish Secretary, Scotland was extinguished, line.
People who protest that they love country X may well be loving the invented country of their mind.
Greece, France, Scotland etc wonderful, but the people are simply clueless.
If the English leave an element of the anti in their wake it is likely a result of a close contact of the negative kind. The world is not all the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel.
O/T
R2 there. Record number of people waiting for NHS operations in England and Wales.
Nicola Sturgeon must resign.
Anna Burnside rubbishes the National newspaper for publicising the Ashcroft Poll on Independence then praises the BBC for not reporting the poll, then complains that nobody praised the Daily Record for publishing the results of the poll
She must have sore feet with all that jumping around, of course she does work for the Daily Record who pay her and she does appear on the BBC who pay her
She doesn’t appear in the National newspaper, so they don’t pay her
So I see that Labour now want a multi-option referendum including federalism. It assumes someone is going to federate with us. Is it England, East Anglia, West Mercia…?
And where do we go if the vote is:
Indie 45%
Federalism 15%
Ein Reich (Kein Holyrood) 20%
Leave It, My Brain Hurts 20% ?
Proud cybernat 1.01pm. My sister had to wait only 4 mnths for a hip op on the SNHS. I have a welsh friend in aberdare who is waiting (one cancellation already) over 16 mnths for a knee op. Mind you after years of being a liebor voter he now votes PC.
Stuart Cosgrove making more twists and turns than an ordinance survey map as he attempts to appease the BBC while at the same time attemting to tell them they’re wrong without losing his job
It’s a bad state of affairs in Scotland when so called *journalists* are instructed to write create invent stories that reflect the SNP Scottish government as dictatorial by a BBC who will threaten your employment if you don’t
Not to worry BBC Scotland the Scottish people fully understand and appreciate the lengths that are gone to to be completely unimpartial
Malarkey and Malpractice are just a couple of definitions
Ode to Richard Leonard From a Former Labour Supporter!
“It’s self determination for me.
It’s self determination for me.
If your no a self determinant,
Your nae use tae me.”
Sung to the tune of,oh any bliddy thing.
Quite enjoy Mr O’Brien’s work generally. But his perception of the UK, of Britain, as ‘A’ country? Jinkies!
@ Arthur C says at 12:28 pm ….”Petra I think you are giving yourself a lot of unnecessary work copying and pasting Nana’s links on here. All people have to do is copy the link provided by Hackalumpoff and add it to their favourites. I did that when it started and it hasn’t changed since. I don’t have to wait for Hacklumpoff’s daily post, as I can just click the link whenever I wish and peruse the fruits of Nana’s labours at my leisure.”
You might be right Arthur but what I’m hoping to do is to encourage others to go onto Nana’s site and bring some (all) of the data on to this site. They say that 300,000 people visit this site and no doubt some of them are newcomers. Maybe even prior No voters / sitting on the fencers? The very people that we want to convert. How many of them may overlook, miss, Nana’s site / invaluable information altogether? There’s also the possibility that when the information is on this site it will go on to generate debate. Something that we can’t do on Nana’s site. I’ve got some extra time on my hands this week and next and then I’m going to be up to my eyes in it, so won’t have the same time to visit or comment. I’m hoping that, in the very near future (within the next couple of weeks, lol), not only will people add Nana’s site to their favourites, and ”peruse the fruits of Nana’s labour at their leisure”, but disseminate the information far and wide by reposting the links on here.
Raab’s visit to Canada, intended to demonstrate to Britain that there ARE other trade options. (No doubt the visit was the resident SPIN expert’s idea)
Meantime, Canada says Naw!! They’d rather deal with the EU and Scotland.
link to theglobeandmail.com
link to twitter.com
@ Petra
Good to know Nana’s still around. Missed quite a lot recently and have wondered where Nana was for the past few days.
Wasn’t worried mind… 😎
OFF-TOPIC My Thought for the Day.
BBC TV Flagship News at 6 and 10pm:
“And now over to our Scotland Correspondent Sarah Smith”.
I’m waiting for BBC TV Flagship News Reporting Scotland at 6:30 and 10:30pm saying,:”And now over to our England Correspondent Joe Bloggs”.
Scotland expects…
Hypocritical British nationalists are getting more and more desperate. They’ve stopped even attempting to put forward arguments that have a smidgen of logic to them.
Lying British nationalist politicians and media are so delusional it’s reasonable to assume they collectively suffer from seriously poor mental health.
Good news for Fifers. Levenmouth line to reopen.
link to bbc.co.uk
Look forward to more of this sort of thing after indie.
I can open Nana’s Links to comments if Nana wants, but this is a more established forum.
@PictAtRandom
Yes indeedy! A 4yr to 5 yr project though. 🙂
PS:
Jings!
Wullie Rennie, where have you been hiding, ruining oor country.
Jo must have given him the nod.
IS WILLIE RENNIE AS THICK AS THEY SAY
“… why Scotland’s place in our country
should never be a subsidiary part of a deal
to get the keys to Downing Street.”
link to t.co
Just caught your comment, DrJim, my apologies.
re. the Foreign Secretary, Priti Patel. I’m pretty sure she is aflicted with both right-wing authoritarianism and social dominance orientation. In other words, she appears to be a bit of a fascist, and so is ideally suited to this cabinet.
Social Dominance Orientation and Right?Wing Authoritarianism: Additive and Interactive Effects on Political Conservatism
Abstract
It is commonly accepted that social dominance orientation (SDO) and right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) are potent unique predictors of a variety of prejudice and prejudice-related constructs. However, contrary to some predictions, there has been little evidence that these constructs interact to produce this outcome – they appear to be additive but not interactive in their prediction of prejudice.
We extend the interaction hypothesis to consideration of another broadly relevant construct – political ideology. Drawing from 14 independent New Zealand-based samples, we show, through meta-analysis and multilevel random coefficient modelling, that SDO and RWA additively and interactively predict levels of political conservatism operationalised in a variety of ways. Specifically, both constructs are associated with increasing political conservatism, and the lowest levels of conservatism (or highest levels of political liberalism) are found in those lowest in both SDO and RWA.
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
@Robert Peffers, I am flogging a deid horse here but, thought it might interest you what has been written:
From EU Ombudsman: “I am writing in reply to your e-mail.. in which you complained to the European Ombudsman that (i) the Government of the United Kingdom unlawfully triggered Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union as Scottish people have not voted to leave the European Union, and that (ii) the European Commission overlooked Scotland’s position in the withdrawal process negotiations with the United Kingdom. On the basis of the information you provided, we further understand that you have submitted an infringement complaint to the European Commission in relation to this matter.
I am sorry to have to inform you that the European Ombudsman cannot deal with your complaint. This is because it concerns an issue that is not within her mandate.
Article 228 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union stipulates that the European Ombudsman can investigate only complaints that concern the administrative work of the European Union’s institutions and bodies, for instance the European Commission and European Union agencies.
In line with Article 2.1 of the European Ombudsman’s Statute, the Ombudsman cannot look into complaints about other authorities or persons, such as the Government of the United Kingdom.
Please also note that, in line with Article 2.2 of the European Ombudsman’s Statute, the Ombudsman cannot investigate complaints that concern the political activities of an European Union’s institution or body.
While you may be disappointed that we cannot deal with your complaint, I am sure you will understand that the Ombudsman can act only in line with the legislation governing her office¹.”
My reply: “Thank you for your response. I do apologise if my letter did not make the position clear. My complaint is not just about the UK member state; it also involves the EU Commission, so I respectfully put it to you that my complaint is within the remit of the Ombudsman as it does involve the EU Commission.
I have made a clear complaint that the UK did NOT trigger Article 50 in accordance with its own constitutional requirements. So, the EU Commission erred in law and not in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty when it mistakenly accepted that the UK acted in accordance with Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon.
I have challenged the legality and procedural validity of the EU Commission accepting Article 50 as having been activated by the UK Government in accordance with UK constitutional requirements.
I have laid out a clear legal argument that Scotland’s people constitutionally remain sovereign within the UK constitution. Scotland is now an equal partner of the United Kingdom. Scotland’s sovereign people did not give consent for the UK to trigger Article 50.
Yet, the UK Government and EU Commission have simply ignored this and acted as if UK Parliament is sovereign, based on an English tradition of the monarch of England being sovereign in English law and giving Parliament sovereignty.
Scotland has a separate and internationally respected legal system called Scots Law. In Scots Law according to our constitutional law, the people of Scotland are sovereign, not Parliament and not the monarch.
My complaint should have triggered a full and proper examination by the EU Commission about the arguments I have made about Scottish sovereignty requiring the consent of the people of Scotland for Article 50 to be lawfully triggered. That, as the people of Scotland continue to have sovereign power in law, for the UK to have lawfully triggered Article 50 in accordance with its constitutional law, it required the consent of the people of Scotland. But UK Government has failed to obtain the consent of the people of Scotland, simply ignoring Scottish sovereignty, so the UK has acted unconstitutionally.
The EU Commission failed to give due consideration and examination of this aspect of my complaint, it simply avoided it.
Thus, I politely request that the Ombudsman deals with my complaint against the EU Commission, that the EU Commission failed to give proper examination into my complaint that the UK Government / UK Member State acted unconstitutionally, so their Article 50 application should be suspended until this legal and procedural issue has been settled.
@manandboy
No worries it’s cool
Robert Peffers@8.38am
As I have now listened to the whole extract of the O’Brien show I would declare that on balance I agree with your point that he should be better informed about Scotland and Wales. After all the show is called Leading BRITAINS Conversation not Leading England’s conversation.
He seemed pretty representative of the vast majority in England who basically never give a thought to Scotland/Wales/N. Ireland or the Union and just think of the UK as being England. The only exceptions being if someone suggests going on holiday to Scot/Wales/N.Ireland or if there are relations or if a job turns up. It’s not really surprising as the British media only covers England for the most part.
That’s why you get statements like: the UK is an island; England is an island etc etc.
Scots Renewables
Do you go to the Wings social nights and or the Wings stall at any of the gatherings?…. And how tec savvy are you?…
Sorry to sound so mysterious I just have a bit of an idea I don’t want to post about!!! 🙂
And if you’re Nana Approved I reckon you’ll do 🙂
OK, so she’s Home Secretary, but here’s some detail of the kinds of impact right-wing authoritarianism and social dominance orientation (see the Home Secretary), can have on an individual’s rational judgement. Subsequently, this government does not look as if it will help Scotland’s drugs problem. Just the opposite, frankly. Full text.
link to ejop.psychopen.eu
Want to better understand this cabinet and the direction of political travel that Britain is taking?
Right-Wing Authoritarianism and Social Dominance Orientation Differentially Moderate Intergroup Effects on Prejudice
link to researchgate.net
The full-English Brexit is an expression of collective narcissism and xenophobic, authoritarian, English nationalism. Fact.
link to researchgate.net
Independence
This waiting is an ordeal. Best get active! Best in fact to think of Independence as an ‘already’ which will have an ‘official beginning’, but which will not be a ‘start’. We’ve had the start, in 2012, when the campaign for Indy14 begun. Remember? The Awakening?
@Liz g at 3:24 pm
If you use Nana’s contact page here link to indyref2.space
She will forward your email address to ScotsRenewables.
No need to say what your idea is just say in the contacts box please fwd to ScotsRenewables.
There are many, many ways of ‘getting’ or just ‘being’ lost. My sense of things as they stand in the England part of the UK, is that a state of being ‘lost’ has overtaken the Ruling Class, as well as large numbers of those eligible to vote.
It is arguable then, that we are all lost, unless we plan to do something else, and not just follow meekly behind those who are meant to be governing.
In the meantime, the EU is at a loss as to what to do about ‘the UK’. Hopefully, the Scottish government is not.
Hackalumpoff @ 4.12
Thanks Norman….. Will do later this evening!
I need to pop out just now
Contrast what former Labour First Minister of Wales said this week to the scaremongering “Scottish” Labour leadership.
Carwyn Jones said: “We are not too poor to be independent, no.”
Many other countries are in the red… that is not unusual,” Mr Jones said.
But Mr Jones warned if the country did go it alone, the economy would not be “transformed overnight”, pointing to the years of economic troubles Ireland suffered before thriving.
link to bbc.co.uk
@manandboy says: 8 August, 2019 at 8:56 am:
” … The Union of Scotland and England is a political marriage. It was also an ‘arranged’ marriage – by the English. I’ll stop short at calling it a ‘forced’ marriage. Perhaps ‘bribed’ would be a better term.”
Sorry to dissolution you, manandboy, but it most certainly was a forced marriage. First there was the English Navigation Acts that even although Scotland and England shared a monarch were applied to Scotland. Then England threatened to declare Scots as Aliens and unable to do business in England and the English Navigation Acts led to the Darien Expedition which was set up by William Patterson, the same London Scot responsible for the scheme that led to the Bank of England.
He set up the Scottish Land owners to bankrupt them and leave them open to bribery and his friend and English spy Daniel Defoe who was working with him in Edinburgh. Not to mention that on the lead up to the Treaty of Union the English army was massed along the Scottish/English border and the English fleet were lying off the Firth of Forth.
The Treaty of Union was most certainly a forced marriage.
Robert Peffers
‘The Treaty of Union was most certainly a forced marriage.’
Has always felt a bit more like gang r**e to me I’m afraid.
When did you last here a positive argument for Scotland staying in union with England?
Can’t remember? Me neither!
For years now all pro Union arguments fall into two style …
1) London won’t let you leave. You’ve had your chance now you are shackled for decades. Your democratic rights only apply when you vote the way London wants you to.
2) This bad thing, or that bad thing, will befall you if you are independent. The EU won’t have you. You’ll be broke. You won’t get the oil. England won’t trade with you.
This is completely undemocratic, unstable and unsustainable. It can’t last.
It would be hilarious, if it weren’t serious!
@kapelmeister says:8 August, 2019 at 10:21 am:
” … a referendum is not for division
a referendum is for decision.”
Whatever message these idiots imagine they are sending with their bleating’s about the divisiveness of the referendum all their message does is mark them out as idiots, (are you listening Wee Willie Rennie).
The whole concept of democracy is built solidly upon division. We vote for different parties to form a government and the membership of the various political parties vote to chose a leader from several candidates. That is division.
When the party in power is chosen by the electorate dividing and selecting a winner the parliament divides into the government and the opposition and they get down to the business, (or rather they are supposed to get down to that business), but how do they conduct that business?
They divide into those who support motions and those who oppose motions and after they argue about it they call, would you believe, a division and they divide up and troop through the division lobbies.
The whole bloody system of government is based upon democracy and democracy is based 100% upon divisiveness. Have these congenital idiots any idea how much hilarity they engender every time the bleat about referendums being divisive? They latch onto a word or phrase they do not comprehend and imagine themselves so clever.
In the meantime everyone else is kinked with laughter, but the really funny thing is that until now, when we are getting fed up with the joke, no one has told them how stupid they are.
They have said it on TV, radio, the internet and had it published in the dead tree press and to date no one has told them how stupid they are because the entire idea of democracy is 100% based upon the idea of division of people for and against proposals. So just what are they doing in politics if they haven’t been being divisive?
Oh! Wait up! There is always abstention – but, of course if everyone abstains, nothing ever gets done.
Will they still love us when we walk out?
link to youtube.com
Do we care anymore?
And here’s some social and political psychology, for those who like to understand the world around them and the political forces shaping contemporary British nationalism. Full text
link to jspp.psychopen.eu
It looks as though it’s down to the Battle of the Doms, now. Who’ll win?
link to politicshome.com
‘Warnings after woman is burned by ‘vagina steaming’ says Auntie.
Didn’t read, but assume there’s a fair chance Pvt Murray could be involved.
@Capella says: 8 August, 2019 at 11:11 am:
… the website Random Scottish History a Pre-1900 Book Collection of Scottish Literature, History, Art & Folklore.</i?
https://randomscottishhistory.com
I'll tell you a wee story. I spent most of my schooldays in Edinburgh. One of the boys in our group lived in a house at the bottom of the Canongate – only yards away from Holyrood Palace. He belonged to a family that had lived in that same house for hundreds of years. Several others were from the same area and stories get handed down through the years.
One such story was that among the last signatures on the Treaty of Union had been signed in a cellar opposite the old Scottish Parliament further up the Royal Mile. The story went that the signatories were running and hiding for their lives and that this particular signer had been holed up in that cellar and too frightened to come out.
So we set out to find this historic cellar. We eventually tracked it down to what was now the ladies toilet beneath a restraint almost directly over the High Street from the old parliament building. Remember that in those days the old High Street was still very much a residential area with lots of residential properties in the many old closes and such as Mary King's Close had not then been discovered.
Also the Speaker at Westminster uses the word “Division” to signal to MPs to go into the lobby to vote on Acts of Parliament. @Robert Peffers says at 5:14 pm
The BritNats are saying no more democracy ‘cos it is too divisive. They obviously would rather we had dictatorship instead!
Liz g says:
8 August, 2019 at 3:24 pm
Scots Renewables
Do you go to the Wings social nights and or the Wings stall at any of the gatherings?…. And how tec savvy are you?…
Sorry to sound so mysterious I just have a bit of an idea I don’t want to post about!!! ?
And if you’re Nana Approved I reckon you’ll do ?
Fairly tech-savvy ? been a web designer/developer for 21 years
There is a separate contact form on the home page of indyref2.space that goes direct to me
Nice one Rev.
Well i like James he does try hard even if sometimes his understanding of things need a little education,though you can not say he is not open to learn more.
I think like many he is still in a little shock from the bombardment of facts the cybernats have and use to educate,keep up the good work you vile or is it now odious cybernats 😉
Do you think i could get odds on what we are called next,if so i am going for heinous its got to be worth a £10 bet lol
Further to the ‘divisiveness’ of politics in the uk parliament..
The distance between the government and opposition benches, is measured as “two swords length” apart.
Government and OPPOSITION ffs !!
Big neon signs could not make it more obvious tat politics is divisive.
How WM unionism must hanker for the days when Scots were labour voting sheep.
Shocked to not see the Disastrous NHS England stats on the news.
Are they just being kind to Scotland and reporting everything from
A torn sheet to a sticking master that didn’t stick.
Apology long rant please just scroll down and ignore if wish.
Does one laugh..cry…or intermittently do both.
How come we have got to the point of people rewriting and denying the history of what was promised in both Indy Ref by BT campaign by Unionists and by Brexit campaign by Vote Leave, prominent Tory MP’s and Leave EU ?
How come when those who did NOT buy into the BT and Brexit leavers promises and lies and who then voted against them are ridiculed, ignored and being portrayed as the baddies ?
How come the MSM is giving an open and regular platform to those who lied, broke their promises while at the same time are allowing themselves to be willing accomplices in ignoring those who highlight those very anomalies, irregularities and mistruths.
Thus the media are giving an undeserved platform to the very people who have mislead both Scots via BT campaign and all within UKOK via pro Leave campaigns. They, the MSM, appear to be legitimising the BT and Leave EU sides while simultaneously deligitimising the other side’s evidence, opinions, arguments and voices ?
One does not need any great level of education or intelligence to recognise the duplicity , unfairness and hypocrisy at play within an impartial establishment network that seems so willing to oblige and thus over endorse and over publicize the message of one side only but are less willing and able to offer the same courtesy to the other side.
The lack of any real challenge to those whose previous positions are now clearly in contrast with the current position and message that they now hold and communicate is in itself a travesty and a scandal of epic proportions….yet still the propaganda and misinformation is given centre stage and the messengers who deliver the chaos and lies are presented as credible , informed and moral representatives.
I do not want to listen to what pro Leave politicians, pundits, charlatans and dried up hacks think on debate shows , radio shows, gutter press, press reviews and televised interviews have to say.
I also feel the same way about those same types of individuals who promote the Union and debase the argument for Scottish Independence and also very much those people who were actively involved with and responsible for their undelivered assurances, guarantees and promises that they made to Scots in 2014 if they voted NO in the BT campaign.
I was not then, and I am not now going to be swayed in the future by the lies that they, the Unionists, present or ever avert my attention towards any diversion tactics deployed by the usual suspects..when all is said and done I want to remain in the EU and I want Scottish Independence and irrespective of the predictable doom and gloom that will surely be used by those who have NOT fulfilled their promises and predictions that they made in 2014 and 2016 respectively…I am no longer listening or willing to change my mind.
I can but speak for myself on this…but like many on here I will endeavour to highlight the very points that I have made to those people who are still unsure and need to be convinced.
It is also worth highlighting that the notion of Scottish Independence is usually presented in a way that warrants only disregard, disrespect , deemed unimportant,indulgent fantasy, ridiculed, deemed invalid, challenged as not credible or viable and where ludicrous assertions and misinformation is accepted as true by people who neither care nor know anything about Scotland, it’s politics or it’s people but are given a public platform to lie…also by or by those prominent Scots who have ulterior selfish motives for wanting to remain within the UKOK….let’s not even consider the No Surrender mob as their motives are clear only to them but not to any sane, intelligent and decent people.
Is it really any wonder that there is so many people in despair, depressed and feeling frustrated when they live in such a sewer infested so called country and disunited Union with so many b**tards that care for no one or anything other than themselves.
Scottish Unionists MP’s should be ashamed that they have sold out Scotland to endure this never ending s*it show . The fact that they endorsed , in 2014, what has now been exposed as a blatant lie via their BT campaign PR exercise and still endorse it as an ideal situation for Scotland defies belief and betrays who their real allegiance is to….and it sure is not to Scotland and it’s people.
Apologies for long post.
@dakk says: 8 August, 2019 at 4:36 pm:
” ‘The Treaty of Union was most certainly a forced marriage.’
Has always felt a bit more like gang r**e to me I’m afraid.”
Stu’s banned list will probable swallow this post but I’ll try and post it although it isn’t really funny:-
Young lady runs into the police station and says to the desk officer, “Officer! Officer I’ve been Gr**ped”.
Officer says, “Do you mean you’ve been r**ped. No says the lady, “There was a bunch of them””
@Clapper57 7:23pm
Well said. I feel exactly the same.
Well said Clapper57.
” Ignorance of Irish history fuels Britain’s Brexit debate …. is down to a lack of education at school level about Britain’s colonial past in Ireland. Indeed, Irish history as a whole is very rarely taught in English schools. “
link to irishtimes.com
The English have virtually no idea about the realities of the ‘British’ Empire. They know nothing about either Ireland nor Scotland. And I’m not just talking guy-in-the-street, their leaders seem no be hopelessly ignorant too.
That raised a chuckle for me Robert.
Certainly not not funny,if a bit Bernard Manningesque 🙂
Can anyone give me the name or the link of the tory MP who very recently gave away on tv that Scotland sends £200 billion to the treasury and that WM is depending on this to survive brexit please?
I am in a discussion at present with a yoon idiot who is asking how Scotland has the so-called deficit. He wants links and I would quite like to shut him up, as there are also others on that particular page who are brainwashed, ignorant unionists who try to say Scotland cant survive on its own, bla bla bla!Thank you 🙂
I think a lot of English people view Scotland as a theme park, somewhere that only exists to allow them to go on holiday.
Clapper 57 very well said, totally agree with you.
Fionan
BBC Economics Correspondent Andrew Verity:
“Something north of £200 billion to the UK economy, like we’re moving the output of Scotland from the UK economy”.
Google it: ” youtube Scotland contributes to Westminster £200 billion each year”
Since Scotland is a smaller part of the UK, I’ve always thought we should be “aware” of our position as a a tenth. However, Stu, I love your comment, the one you weren’t allowed to say on the radio
point out that no one German region is six times bigger than all the others put together and can – and does – impose its will on them whenever it wants
Thanks Stu, for that clarity.
Fionan
also google: vimeo 303991631
Clapper57 says:
8 August, 2019 at 7:23 pm
….Scottish Unionists MP’s should be ashamed that they have sold out Scotland to endure this never ending s*it show ….
An MP that would steal your vote in a referendum would steal your vote in a General Election. Same difference. Anybody seeking to deny Scotland or interfere with it’s democratic process should be automatically deselected as a public servant of the sovereign Scottish people, and thrown out of parliament for bringing Scottish politics into disrepute.
Suppressing democracy is what Fascists and Dictators do, yet here in Scotland we have Unionists leading the charge in lobbying for precisely that – No to holding a referendum. It’s nothing short of outrageous, shameful behaviour. Get your filthy grasping hands off Scotland’s democracy, ya jumped up wee Hitler wannabes.
Thank you Colin Alexander.
Clapper57 yea it sucks but compared to 2014 we have come a long way.
In 2014 we were always on the defensive scratching around for facts and the truth to fight the wave of lies directed at us while trying to enlighten the Scottish people.
Since 2014 we have wrecked the red tories,we have wrecked the blue tories,we have started a Welsh independence movement,we ruined Cameron and May,we got rid of the UK EU veto and we have turned large parts of the English population against the state media.
Now we take no shit and attack all purveyors of shit relentlessly.
Listen carefully can you hear the battle cry once again 😉
Colin Alrxander Scotland does not contribute 200 billion to the UK each year, the guy was talking about size of the economy not the tax take.
Fascinating fact displayed in WoS Twitter.
Labour Party members in Scotland only make up 2.3% of the UK total membership.
Scots have been abandoning them big time. Now we have the situation where HQ are saying they won’t stop an IndyRef2, while the branch in Scotland says they still oppose it. No wonder they are turning away from them. And worse, this is against a background where 40% of their residual voters say they will vote Yes.
Labour are up shite creek with neither boat nor paddle.
@ Breeks
“An MP that would steal your vote in a referendum would steal your vote in a General Election”
Yeh Breeks ..and if any voter in Scotland still wants to vote for pro Union MP’s then they, the MP’s, must also be ‘stealing your mind’…Lol
@ DerekM
Hi Derek, Yes I am weary but not broken….they, the pro Union Scottish MP’s, might have selective memory syndrome but by c*rist I do not …Lol
@ Doug, Republicofscotland & Marie Clark
Hey guys n gal….they know that we know…that we know that they know what we know….but do they know what we know…when we DOOOO know what they know…..or words to that effect..Lol
Hope you all have a good evening…what’s left of it
link to theguardian.com
“Boris Johnson has said he hopes the EU will “show common sense” and agree a new Brexit deal,”
… While in his own life, as well as in his political career, the LAST Thing that Boris Johnson knows anything about is….. COMMON SENSE!
No matter, these comments are just the puppet show. The real action is behind the scenes, in rooms where people like Aaron Banks and Steve Bannon discuss strategy.
manandboy says:
Indeed. Have a look at how Dominic Cummings probably sees the world.
link to theneweuropean.co.uk
Clapper57, great post.
These Brexit negotiations, especially the current end-game, hasn’t been the British Establishments finest hour. The more Scots see their thuggish buccaneering behaviour the more they will be turned against them. It really reminds me of these new stories about ones up in court for ordering hits on ex-business partners. Total psychopaths.
I know people are clamouring for a second indyref as soon as possible but it makes sense to let this Brexit fiasco play itself out because the more desperate the British establishment becomes, the more out of control they will become. Once folk see that, they will have to make the decision about whether they want to be associated with that lot you want to fly with the crows, expect to be shoot at with the crows.
Fionan@8.13pm
Lenny Hartley@9.50pm is correct. The reporter on the BBC was referring to Scotlands GDP – the size of the economy.
There is no doubt that Scotland subsidises England and not the other way around.
A simple way to refute your Britnats is to tell them to look at Norway. Norway has the largest sovereign savings fund from its oil wealth. Also the majority of wealthy countries are small countries. Scotland is swimming in a sea of oil and gas.
The so called deficit he refers to will be the GERS deficit. There is a Wings debunking of GERS for you to view on this site. You could refer them to that post. The so called deficit is pure propaganda.
Westminster controls Scotlands revenues and a very large part of the spend. If you do not control your revenues and your spend you are not independent.
If your neighbour spent large sums of money on his own house and then tells you that the debt he had incurred was your debt would you think that acceptable. That’s what happens in the UK.
Hope that helps.
More on Cummings …
link to nytimes.com
Scotland raises £60Billion in tax revenues. The UK raises £661Billion. Scotland rayses more pro rata,
Scotland could raise more. £4Billion a year, in lost Oil revenues. Tory high taxes when price fell. Losing 120,000 jobs, Scotland could have had no unemployment. £3Billion in tax evasion. £1Billion Trident and redundant weaponry. Scotland will save £1Billion MUP. Scotland can)t borrow £5Billion for investment and growth. £4Billion in loan repayments on monies not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Total average £20Billion. Scotland could raise the same as Norway. £80Billion.
Fishing, farming and Oil sector all mismanaged by Westminster. Scotland could raise £8Billion selling surplus fuel and energy instead of putting it on the grid. Bexit will cost Scotland £8Billion. Scotland has less of a balance of payments deficit and is self sufficient.
Westminster Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion have cost Scotland dear.
Iraq, Dunblane and Lockerbie kept secret for years under the Official Secrets Act.
Galamcennalath@8.02pm
Very true.
In fact most people in the UK have no idea of the role the British Empire played in other current trouble spots throughout the world eg the Middle East, Kashmir.
A fairy story of the benevolent British Empire civilising the world has been propagated.
Lenny Hartley
I take on board what you said.
I just quoted what was said by the BBC Economy correspondent. I never mentioned tax.
Tax is not a true measure of economic output or wealth anyway, as so much tax is fiddled, much of it legally, especially by the richest people and businesses.
Just look at Kaye Adams, George Galloway, Tony Blair, Amazon, Ebay, Google etc on ways to minimise your tax bill.
It’s no PAYE for them I bet.
I’ll tell you what I think, Boris Johnson doesn’t want to meet and start to negotiate anything with the EU. Not because he’s calling their bluff or any other such foolish notions.
There’s a simple and most likely explanation and it’s that he has nothing to negotiate with so he is scared of them. He can’t turn up saying “backstop backstop” so he’s made that a condition of negotiations even starting. Hahaha I find that funny as fuck.
Because he knows it’s a losing strategy and it doesn’t need Cummings to tell him that. He has to build up the pressure of the EU refusing to talk even though it is his red lines that prevent any talks in the first place.
But the dam is cracking, the Belfast Telegraph the other day reported that they would accept a “time limited backstop” of say 5 years. Johnson today is saying he’s open to talks but ignore the backstop.
I think this is politics at it’s most infantile to be honest and if it wasn’t for the likely consequences of a No Deal exit from the EU then it would be laughable.
Right NOW the UK is in a mess especially for those on the bottom rung of the so called ladder. We have food banks, benefit sanctions, increased suicides and drug deaths. It really is serious and needs tackling for the benefit of all of society. With No Deal it can only get worse.
I don’t even believe Boris Johnson will want to go there but the man is a clown so can know. Business will be telling him it’s a bad idea, his senior civil servants will all be telling him how bad an idea it is. Will he listen?
I believe he is full of bluff and bluster and when it comes to it he will be the one to cave in, a bit to go yet but a further extension is not a long shot.
Whatever, everything he does now in his time as Prime Minister makes Independence more likely, of that I have no doubt unlike what Johnson’s next moves might be.
Fiona @ 8.13
You could also try asking – where the oil is – !
Everybody knows and can say where Norway’s oil is!
We all know what they did with theirs.
Well where’s Scotland’s we had just as much mibbi even more.
What did Westminster do with it all ?
Have your friends ever heard where it went?
Wall St is worried that Trump isn’t particularly bright, a liar who doesn’t understand internationalism and trade relations.
‘…if you only got your information about the president from the president himself, you might also think he was “great-looking”, emotionally stable, and fantastic with money, when, of course none of these things are true…Trump has no understanding of macroeconomics, international trade, business, or the very purpose of the Federal Reserve’
link to vanityfair.com
Boris Trump isn’t much better. A fantasist and a liar, promising unicorns and trying to punt Brexit- which is tied to English nationalism- to Scotland. Scotland is a country that will have no part in enabling Brexit- put that on the side of a bus.
‘The last thing any self-respecting politician needs or wants is a ringing endorsement from Donald Trump…It is widely felt that Johnson has promised fields of unicorns…He now has to make good on a promise to leave the EU by the end of October, deal or no deal, while cutting taxes for the rich, increasing public spending, and addressing the many problems that have befallen the U.K. after years in which the government was only focused on Brexit — rising knife crime, pollution, collapsing social care, underfunded health care… Brexit is primarily an English movement, tied to English nationalism, and Johnson was voted into his position mainly be a small group of Southern, English, men. Whatever happens next, it’s unlikely to be pretty. Just as Trump may well be leading to the unravelling of the Republicans, Johnson may just be the final demise of Conservatives.
link to gen.medium.com
If England had become an Independent country three years ago they’d have been out of the EU and saved themselves a lot of bother and money and Scotland could have continued EU membership along with whoever else wanted to stay
Therein lies the nature of the existing UK of England, power control and money…..for England, with the rest of us footing their bill
The UK wide referendum? what Nationality is a UK? or even a *British*?
Telegraph and Sky News reporter saying Johnston’s plan is to go for a general election immediately after Brexit. Perhaps the first week in November.
It seems to me that both London parties have already written off Scotland to the SNP. If both Labour and Tories north of the border are wiped out, the balance of Westminster seats is roughly maintained.
Anyway, bring it on, as somebody, now forgotten, once said.
The State of play in the Union Test Match :
The Union is a scam. The scammers want it to stay that way. The victims want it to end.
The Lord hears the cry of the poor.
England vs God.
No contest.
Independence is Normal.
Never forget it.
It is time.
My Herald comment about David Mundell:
” I’m her yesterday man. Well my friends that’s what I am. I’m her yesterday man. Well my friends that’s what I am. That’s what I am, a yesterday man”.
Chris Andrews song titles:
Yesterday’s man ( David Mundell, Theresa’s yesteday man)
Too bad you don’t want me ( is that what Mundell said as he had his petted lip when sacked by Boris?).
To Whom it Concerns ( That’s the people of Scotland)
It’s all up to you now
( Vote YES for independence, no more colonial treatment from Colonial Governors like Mundell or Jack).
@ Me @ 7.23pm
“at play within an impartial establishment network”
Wrong !…me bad…again.
Should have been “at play within a LESS than impartial establishment network”
My fingers worked faster than me brain.
@ PacMan @ 10.28pm
“These Brexit negotiations, especially the current end-game, hasn’t been the British Establishments finest hour”
Yep PacMan, Boris thinks he will have his Churchillian ‘finest hour’ moment as the UKOK PM that delivers Brexit…pity that he cannot see the actual “end game” will, God willing, result in his own Mein Kampf Fuhrer moment and will lead to an end game with him as the last PM of UK(NotAndNeverWas) OK….
Have a good evening …what’s left of it
Fireproofjim @ 23:20,
My guesstimate also.
The question remains: have the London parties, while (mostly*) writing-off Scotland on account of its electoral “neutrality” as they see it, also discounted the likely pro-SNP surge because they are casually indifferent to the consequences, or because they still believe they can somehow still neutralise them…?
*(Except McDonnell, who evidently doesn’t mind having a little insurance policy “on the side”.)
Who said this?
Maggie Thatcher in her memoirs “The Downing Street Years”
I think Johnson is already making massive blunders. This from the Daily Heil is an example. I think it’s meant to be supportive but read right through it’s just another disaster.
link to archive.fo
WGD:- ‘The Federalism Fairy flaps again, again.’
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
@ Colin Alexander says ..”I am flogging a deid horse here but, thought it might interest you what has been written:..
Well done to you Colin. You are doing more than most on here. Let’s hope that you get a result.
No go area re-established in Belfast as police retreat from New Lodge area.
Reminiscent of the early days of the troubles Brexit and the repudiation of the GFA look set to cause a return to war.
And for anyone looking at picture of police officers looking more like a paramilitary forces,and especially those with side arms, , spare a thought for the 400 or so Scottish police now trained for deployment in NI.
Willie says:
9 August, 2019 at 5:55 am
No go area re-established in Belfast as police retreat from New Lodge area.
Reminiscent of the early days of the troubles Brexit and the repudiation of the GFA look set to cause a return to war….
If that happens, the ramifications for Westminster will be profound.
I listed yesterday a list of markers for the early signs of fascism, and virtually all of them were boxes which the UK already ticks.
But as soon as the UK Government “suspends” democracy in Scotland, or materially provokes a return to hostilities in Northern Ireland, I predict the International Community will quickly run out patience with the UK’s dabbling with Fascism, and will be obliged to treat the UK as Fascist. Rebukes and sanctions will follow, and the UK can forget all about Free Trade Agreements. Even the USA will step back from the UK if the Troubles are rekindled.
I have read the UK being described as suffering boiled frog syndrome, where the gradual and pernicious slide towards Fascism is passing unnoticed. They need to wake up and realise their predicament now, before it’s too late.
Provoking bloodshed in Ireland, and prohibition of democratic process in Scotland are big irrecoverable steps the UK Government really, really doesn’t want to take, and yet they’re still prepared to put their faith in this spectacular Tory Arsehole and the deluded backdrop of British exceptionalism.
I hope Nicola has her hand on the Ejector Seat lever, and I mean the October make-safe state of emergency, not some forlorn date next year or beyond.
Tories majority one. 30 Tories will not support (a no deal) Brexit, The Tories are toast.
A GE. One campaign at a time. Another IndyRef which can be won. The de coupling will take a while. Scotland will be much better off Independent. A. better world.
@Dr Jim says:
8 August, 2019 at 11:07 pm
Therein lies the nature of the existing UK of England, power control and money…..for England, with the rest of us footing their bill
Overstatement – or perhaps understatement. The North regions of England and areas like the far West of England suffer much as Scotland does with all power and wealth flowing to London and its surrounding counties. They are worse off in a way as they don’t have regional devolved parliaments with power to fight off the worse affects of London policy. Unfortunately their own English nationalism makes it easy for most of them to fall for the lies and propaganda which it seems more than 50% of Scotland sees through.
See Nana’s Links here:
link to indyref2.space
Two colonies, Kashmir and Scotland.
link to theguardian.com
link to theguardian.com
Irrespective of who said this, the issue is the truth of it and the value or importance of that truth.
The Union of 1707 is unravelling as more and more of the truth about it becomes better known and more widespread. To counter this, the British Establishment through the UK Government employs propaganda to such an extent that the UK electorate is arguably the most brainwashed of any State on Earth.
“There is no other Treaty in the world that I’m aware of where a Sovereign Nation (Scotland) undertakes to join up and can only leave when the other side says so.”
David Davis MP, Conservatives
Former Brexit Minister.
@Fionan says: 8 August, 2019 at 8:13 pm:
” … I am in a discussion at present with a yoon idiot who is asking how Scotland has the so-called deficit. He wants links and I would quite like to shut him up, as there are also others on that particular page who are brainwashed, ignorant unionists who try to say Scotland cant survive on its own, bla bla bla!Thank you.
I’m really tired of posting various things that rubbish such claims, Fionan.
I posted one such retort only the other day but here we go again. Let’s start with historic proof that Westminster was ripping Scotland off back in the 1800s. This can be accessed right here on the Wings reference pages. Go to the top of a Wings page and there is a broad black line right across the page. click on REFERENCE.
Here there are many links to articles right here on Wings. Under the sub-heading, “FEATURES, Try, “What you could have won”, “The Historic Debt”, “The Subsidy myth”, and so on. There is more than enough on those pages to shoot down any claims that Scotland is subsidised.
Here, though, is some of my own ways of shutting these numpties up. The Scottish annual per capita GDP, (Gross Domestic Product), is normally higher than any other United Kingdom country.
Now per capita GDP is often used by those who try to put Scotland down as subsidy junkies by comparing Scotland’s annual per capita GDP with that of the financial City of London. This is a false comparison as the City of London financial sector is many sky scraper buildings close together and packed with high earning stock market traders and Scotland is a country with many areas of barren almost empty of people.
Thus whatever areas chosen must be comparable and in this instance the numpties have chosen to compare a country, (Scotland), with a Stock Market one square mile – point that out to them and then compare the country of Scotland with the country of England and the annual Scottish per capita GDP is higher than that of England.
You are correctly comparing a country with a country and, as the Scottish per capita GDP is higher and as GDP is the total revenue earned for the treasury divided by the total population of a given area then each Scot on average pays more into the UK treasury than the average Englander then it follows that each Scot is subsidising each Englander. Then cannot prove that wrong. There have been a few years that the Scots per capita GDP has been lower but these have been due to unusual circumstances.
Now you hit them with the knock out punch. Not a single penny of oil & gas revenue is credited as being Scottish earned revenue. This is because the Treasury classes all oil & gas revenue as being earned from United Kingdom, “Extra-Regio-Territory”, but up to 98% of it is extracted from what is recognised internationally under the international law of the seas as being under Scottish jurisdiction and the definition of Extra-regio is defined as, “Not identifiable as from any particular region”, but I have just identified it as Scottish.
So, there you go, Scotland pays far more into the treasury per head of population than does England and thus all we get back is the Scottish Block Grant which is a very long way short of what we pay in.
Anyway, look at copying a few of those articles from the Wings reference pages and read them out or give them to those who attempt to lie about Scotland being subsidised.
Here is another fact that rather deflates these liars. They will try to claim that Scotland gets more per head by the Barnett formula than everyone else. This just indicates in the first place they do not understand the devolution process.
First thing is Scotland does not get the highest per capita funding because Northern Ireland is the highest per capita block grant area. The reason that those, and they include many MSPs, MPs and MEPS, just do not understand the system is this :-
Devolution is simply taking