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Wings Over Scotland

Unreliable sources

Posted on March 21, 2017 by

It seems counter-intuitive – given Rupert Murdoch’s often-overstated (despite endless and fevered speculation, the Scottish Sun didn’t back a Yes vote) but still seemingly real support for Scottish independence – that Sky News should be seen as the most hostile of the nation’s broadcasters to the Yes movement.

Yet such it is.

The channel’s nightly newspaper review is notable for the rarity of Yes voices and the poisonously Unionist views of the commentators it does invite, and several of its presenters make little if any attempt to hide their partisan feelings on the subject.

In our most recent Panelbase poll, Sky News came dead bottom of a list of 20 media outlets when respondents were asked about perceived pro-independence leanings. While (completely bewilderingly) 8% of people thought that the Scottish Daily Mail was pro-Yes, and 7% said the same of the Scottish Daily Express, just 1% had the same opinion of Sky News.


Wings Over Scotland: 23%
Bella Caledonia: 17%
=Scottish Sun: 15%
=STV News: 15%
Daily Record: 13%
The Herald: 12%
The Scotsman: 12%
Common Space: 10%
The Scottish Daily Mail: 8%
BBC Scotland (TV): 8%
BBC Scotland (Radio): 7%
Scottish Daily Express: 7%
The Sunday Post: 6%
The Courier: 5%
The Press & Journal: 4%
The Guardian: 4%
Buzzfeed: 3%
Channel 4 News: 2%
The Times: 2%
Sky News: 1%

(NB The poll allowed for “don’t know/don’t read/watch/listen” responses, which is why the likes of this site didn’t score closer to 100%. Online media, obviously, were generally less recognised than mainstream print and broadcast.)

The broadcaster placed highly, conversely, when respondents were asked to identify pro-Union bias, behind only the Mail, Express, Times and BBC Scotland.


BBC Scotland (TV): 34%
Scottish Daily Mail: 33%
The Times: 31%
Scottish Daily Express: 30%
BBC Scotland (radio): 28%
Sky News: 27%
The Guardian: 26%
Daily Record: 25%
Scottish Sun: 23%
The Scotsman: 23%
The Herald: 20%
Channel 4 News: 19%
The Sunday Post: 18%
The Courier: 17%
The Press & Journal: 16%
STV News: 16%
Buzzfeed: 6%
Wings Over Scotland: 5%
Common Space: 4%
Bella Caledonia: 4%

So there was more amusement than annoyance on pro-indy social media last night when the broadcaster’s dedicated polling arm, Sky Data, produced a poll suggesting that Theresa May was more popular with Scots than Nicola Sturgeon.

Because the survey’s findings were, let’s be generous here, something of an outlier. Conducted among “more than 2,000 people with registered addresses in Scotland”, it gave the Prime Minister an overall +1 rating compared to the First Minister’s -12, a lead of 13 points that’s wildly at odds with every other poll on the subject.

Our recent Panelbase poll, for example, had put Nicola Sturgeon a hefty 27 points ahead (with a +27 rating compared to May’s net 0), fully 40 points out of line with Sky.

Panelbase’s findings tallied almost exactly with a YouGov poll just a few days ago, reported by Sky Data itself, which put the Scottish FM 26 points ahead of the UK PM.

And an Ipsos MORI poll specifically on the subject of Brexit this month delivered an even more striking gulf between the two women among Scottish voters, with Sturgeon a breathtaking 50 points ahead (+15 to -35), an astonishing – almost ridiculous – divergence of 63 points from the Sky Data stats.

Sky Data isn’t regulated by the British Polling Council, so unlike the three recognised pollsters above it’s not required to release its raw data for scrutiny. As such its results should obviously be treated with great scepticism as a matter of principle. But what’s perhaps more concerning is the motivation behind the production of such results.

The Scottish Conservatives certainly leapt on the figures with glee:

Murdo Fraser’s comment is perhaps the most telling. It seems highly likely that the figures will be used in today’s televised debate, despite their extremely poor scientific pedigree, and will feed into public perception, almost as if Sky had intended them to.

The episode is a reminder, if it were needed, that the Yes movement can once again expect nothing from the mainstream media when it comes to fair treatment. As ever, victory will be achieved on our own or not at all.

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    1. 21 03 17 11:56

      Unreliable sources | speymouth

    234 to “Unreliable sources”

    1. Morag says:

      I saw some other things being tweeted about too, mis-reporting of Sturgeon’s speech that twisted her meaning into a much narrower and more jingoistic frams than her actual words.

    2. Bruce L says:

      Exasperating stuff. But it will make victory all the sweeter when it comes.

    3. Macca73 says:

      In a world where they’ve got so many polls wrong recently. I wonder if they’ve already destroyed the credibility of any poll. We’ll see what the debate brings but it should be dismissed out of hand on that basis and people will probably just nod in agreement. 🙂

    4. One_Scot says:

      From what I have seen, Sky News has willing stepped into the role as the official face of the ‘No’ campaign.

    5. Donald MacKenzie says:

      Whilst those of us who do give a smidgeon of thought to the matter know these claims are absolute nonsense, the fact that they are out there and reaching an audience who perhaps doesn’t think quite so critically about the information it is being fed, illustrates the point that Stuart makes that we’re going to have to do this on our own.

    6. Robert Shannon says:

      Of course May is more popular than Nicola. She is converting more no voters from no to yes, long may she keep it up.

    7. Adrian B says:

      This is interesting as FOX look to take over SKY, they want to have a smooth transition. Rupert Murdoch’s media empire will grow. If Sky back the UK Government position at this stage then they and we will expect minimal fuss as the takeover passes the UK Culture secretary and OFCOM.

      This is about a FOX/SKY business takeover passing without problem.

    8. Capella says:

      Don’t pay the Sky tax nor the BBC tax. Vote with your feet till we have a Scottish Broadcasting service. I subscribe to WoS, The National and iScot. Better informed that way!

    9. heedtracker says:

      Uncle Rupert flexing his ancient muscles. All it takes is a phone call from a $150 million 5th Avenue penthouse, NY NY, “take Sturgeon down boys and girls.”

    10. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Uncle Rupert flexing his ancient muscles. All it takes is a phone call from a $150 million 5th Avenue penthouse, NY NY, “take Sturgeon down boys and girls.””

      Why would he want to do that, given that he appears to – at least weakly – support independence?

    11. Bob Mack says:

      I can live in rural Devon and have a “registered Scottish Address”. My leanings may not however be towards Ms Sturgeon.

    12. Helena Brown says:

      Uncle Rupert wants control of Sky. Establishment can stop him. Could this be the answer. Sky has even more right wing nutters now than it ever had before.

    13. LesRoches says:

      I would imagine that most people who contribute to this site already boycott the trinkets that these companies peddle, is there not a case to ask like minded people to consider doing the same?

      In the case of politicians and council public servants, this should be address very soon, May me thinks.

    14. ROBBO says:

      Yesterday I stated by reaction to an Sky news article on Yahoo about the call for Indy2 and was confronted with the most disgusting and hateful comments I have yet encountered. As a moderate yet long standing SNP member I gave what I thought was a courteous and sympathetic defense of the SNP. Within mins my reaction was relagated to about 100th position and replaced with yet more bile yet all the other comments were shown in a random order (not time as you would expect). It occured to me that it is the Media that is driving the HATE agenda here to presumably instill yet more hate which in in turn produces even more. A constant cycle of disgusting behaviour which seemingly is intent in causing greater division in the people of these Islands.

    15. Vestas says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell 11:09 am :

      “Why would he want to do that, given that he appears to – at least weakly – support independence?”

      I don’t believe he does. I think he uses his potential support as a weapon and nothing else. He certainly doesn’t give a shit about Scotland as a country.

      If he gets his way with the Fox takeover of Sky then I fully expect him to do as the unionists want. If he doesn’t then we’ll get another round of maybe yes, maybe no from the Sun/etc.

    16. Macart says:

      Let’s call them what they are – the Yoonstream media – for they certainly don’t represent any other demographic or viewpoint.

      They are also the true oppositon to self determination that needs bypassed and the string that holds an extremely shakey political union together. Without them the whole rotten mess collapses in on itself. They control the airwaves and they saturate the printed media, but we can however do something they cannot. We can talk to people face to face. We can flood the internet and social media where it matters and we can choose, quite specifically, who we talk to.

      They’ve crapped all over the very concept of representative media. They’ve binned the ethics of professional journalism and their idea of democracy? Enough to note that it’s what they say it is.

      Indyref1 saw the those who had no voice and no representation help create a representative media. Now let’s show these …(fill as approp.)… what we can do with what we’ve learned. 🙂

    17. The Rough Bounds says:

      If this was the 13th century the Sun would publish a poll saying that king Edward, immediately after the siege of Berwick where 8,000 Scots were slaughtered, was more popular than William Wallace.

      It’s lies, lies, lies. Expect more.

    18. rog_rocks says:

      Here is a quote from the Green Party manifesto…

      “If there is another vote on
      independence for Scotland we will
      push for Scotland to be independent.”

      Not the story from those untrustable press organisations, like Sky news, who are pushing the Tory lies to tell the Scottish public that the Green’s don’t have support for a referendum written into their manifesto.

      Here is a link to the Green Party manifesto…

    19. TYRAN says:

      People banging on about BBC on one hand whilst paying hundreds per year for Sky on the other. I got rid of that years ago. But Sky News is free you say. Yeah, only as news channels transmit free the world over. Sky News is definitely the worst of late. That said it doesn’t do huge business viewer-wise and very likely insignificant in Scotland.

    20. heedtracker says:

      Why would he want to do that, given that he appears to – at least weakly – support independence?

      He’s a business man, make money from YES voters, slam in when it gets out of hand.

      These guys are all ferocious tories as we know. Its as mad as listening to the tory creep show explain that George Osborne’s new job as editor of the ferociously tory Evening Standard, will be an amazing, powerful and refreshing opponent of Teresa Mayhem’s government.

      Professional liars and hard core tories to the bitter end. And it will be very bitter.

      Never trust a tory:D

    21. This is the sort of rubbish which accelerates the mainstream media’s self destruction. Most people laugh at this kind of nonsense now.

      There is a excellent destruction by a prestigious London based economic professor of the GERS figures and the fantasy deficit in today’s National

    22. If Sky had been around in 1939, the headlines in Germany would have been:- ‘Millions of Jews to be repatriated to their Promised Land, Israel.’
      England has entered a truly dark place.
      I fear for the 48%, plus those millions who abstained.
      Of course Smith, Davidson, and Fraser know that these figures are put up jobs; lies even.
      It is an indicator of their lack of morals and principles that they would gleefully disseminate these lies.
      Of course the Tories lie habitually. No change there.

    23. Macca73 says:

      It’s well known that Murdoch isn’t in favor of the EU as it just hampers his news media outlets with red tape.

      He also has a lot more dealings with senior Tory cabinet members than SNP or Green dealings so he’s going to back his “Chums” in order to suit his own agenda.

    24. tobias says:

      My (unsuported) speculation is that Sky news are doing a favor in the hopes it’ll help Rupert’s bid to own sky TV. If not an official understanding, at least in a “we know what you want” way.

      Put out strong pro-union content and the big wigs at culture media and sport start to think “oh yes, we can trust rupee with his media companies”

    25. gus1940 says:

      Just as it was in 2014, in the absence of any feasible answer to the question of ‘What are the advantages of Scotland being in the Union?’ the Unionist campaign for Indyref2 will be 100% negative as opposed to a positive campaign by YES.

      Now that the gloves have come off it looks as if the Unionist Campaign prior to the real dirty negative tricks consists of:-
      Constant repetition of:-
      Scotland doesn’t want Independence.
      Scotland doesn’t want a Referendum.

      A relentless stream of False Opinion Polls to INFLUENCE the electorate rather than reflect their views.

      Banging on continuously about the ‘Once In A Generation’nonsense.

      Since Nicola’s press conference a week ago it would appear that the Unionist troll factory has gone into frantic overdrive and is bombarding the Comments in the on-line Herald with dozens of apparent new anti SNP alleged individuals.

    26. Dr Jim says:

      Independence made easy:

      If somebody punches you in the face a lot you run away

      The Unionist bully argument is you’re not allowed to run away

      What about that Church of Scotland minister who loves his fellow man but not Muslims so he’s voting No
      Very Christian I thought

    27. Macart says:

      The smoking gun on respect and prior notification.

      Who knew?

    28. galamcennalath says:

      IMO Sky is trying to curry favour with the mad bad Brexiting Greater England nationalists.

      It’s a hard nosed business enterprise looking for something significant in return. The brave new world of deregulated Brexitland will provide.

      I stopped paying their subscription for a number of reasons, but in part it was their IndyRef1 converage especially those atrocious ‘news’ paper reviews.

      If you have a dish, and want the high quality pictures it provides for all the main channels and access to multiple news channels, buy a FreeSat box and drop Sky.

    29. seanair says:

      Well that’s it. Having ditched the BBC and saved money into the bargain,(OAP). I shall now do the same to SKY, although my Virgin Media has thousands of programmes and I won’t get any money back from them.
      It really is shocking that newspapers, and TV stations can tell lies with no repercussions, but we’re stuck with a situation which no Government will challenge because it would then be attacked by the culprits!
      I have no answers to the situation. Does anyone?

    30. heedtracker says:

      Jack Collatin says:
      21 March, 2017 at 11:49 am
      If Sky had been around in 1939, the headlines in Germany would have been:- ‘Millions of Jews to be repatriated to their Promised Land, Israel.’

      Murdoch’s probably one of the most powerful men in the world. He’s probably had more influence in world politics than anyone since WW2. Right now, He’s Trump’s man, he’s dragged the UK out of the EU and he got Mayhem elected. He got Thatcher in and then saved Thatcher’s reign. He got Blair and Brown elected and he kept them there, until he decided New Labour were finished.

      He helped push Leave UK out of the EU because the EU’s 550 million, 27 countries are probably the only block that he cant reach in to and push around. That’s mostly why we’re no longer EU citizens. Murdoch’s level of power, sees clear threat from an EU that they cannot control, an EU than can tax big bucks properly and has far more unreachable power than him and his fellow billionaires. Look at Apple and their EU tax bill.

      Not being able to influence and force people to vote how Murdoch says cannot be allowed to happen, the way he does in countries that Murdoch does own, like ours. Now we’re out the EU and its Scotland’s turn to dance to the Murdoch tune.

    31. call me dave says:

      Worth a read:

      Patrick’s open reply to Tory MSP’s anti-independence letter

      Mr Harvie did well on shortbread’s ‘Good Moaning Scotland’ earlier as he calmly made his case for supporting the SG on the Independence Article 30 this week in spite of the interruptions and bluster from Prof Tomkins and the unbiased interviewer. 🙂

      Having previously been nudging my greens to the side of the plate at previous local elections I have been persuaded for a wee while now by the voting information on ‘Scot goes Pop’ and some posters here to include them on my tick list (X) this time round.

      Lovely links again Nana.

    32. gus1940 says:

      Given the stranglehold the Unionists hold over the broadcasters and papers apart from The National and SH can I suggest the following as a partial means to get to those who do or cannot access the excellent web sites such as Wings:-

      There are thousands of Wingers most of whom have computers and printers.

      Imagine if each one were to purchase a box of blank business card sheet stationery and printed appropriate messages using both sides the country could be flooded with them being scattered around suitable places.

      It may be best for the printed content to be restricted to particular messages suggested to approved either by Stu or by other Wingers.

    33. Capella says:

      @ heedtracker 12.14 – spot on. Murdoch is also an American citizen interfering in UK affairs on US behalf. It’s a cosy wee world in the British Establishment.

    34. Tatu3 says:

      That’ll be why there were hardly any Scots in the audience at Theresa’s speech at the Scottish Tory Spring Conference and 1000’s at Nicola’s speech at the SNP Spring Conference, then??

    35. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      SKY News has always been gutter crap wrapped in the cloak of professionalism, that having expensive production values allows. I never pay it any heed. It’s not that I think I’m above it so much as I think a cockroach is above it.

    36. HandandShrimp says:

      Sky News is just Fox News lite – in other words a joke. Haven’t watched it in years and I recently cancelled Sky (because it went on the blink again and I simply got fed up with it rather than for any noble reason) so I won’t ever be watching it. However,, yes, I would rate it bottom of the TV News channels and that isn’t saying much. It is on par with the Star and the Express.

      It is telling that Murdo stumbles over three recent polls to get his desperate greedy paws on a piece of puff propaganda from a comedy News Station. If he genuinely believes May is popular in Scotland then he really is a buffoon.

    37. Breeks says:

      I said this back in 2014, but if Scotland has the right to declare a UDI, nevermind actually doing it, just having the right to do it, then by a similar logic, Scotland has the right to declare a de facto “lesser” UDI over reserved matters.
      If Scotland has the sovereign power of its people manifest in its elected representatives, then Westminster be damned, start a Scottish Broadcasting news channel. Let Westminster scream until its blue in the face, but please, let us not walk blind into another repeat of the 2014 referendum where we denied ourselves the right of reply and means to contest the Unionist monopoly of reporting and pro Independence narrative.

      If Westminster declares this a breach of the Act of Union treaties, then so be it. We have any number of issues which could be interpreted as a material breach of the same.

      Cause a stooshie about broadcasting. Call in an umpire from the UN or Europe, but for the love of God contest this poisonous monopoly or be damned by it….Again!

    38. Neil Winton says:

      Heck, you’d almost be tempted to think that Nurdoch had been referred to Ofcom for some reason and wanted to get in the good books with Teresa May.

      Surely not.

    39. heedtracker says:

      Capella says:
      21 March, 2017 at 12:24 pm
      @ heedtracker 12.14 – spot on. Murdoch is also an American citizen interfering in UK affairs on US behalf. It’s a cosy wee world in the British Establishment.

      He’s got staggering world power, honed and financed in the early Thatcher reign, which could easily have been one term too, without Murdoch and the Falklands war.

      Its highly likely that Murdoch’s media paid no UK tax at all from the 70’s on. From that point, buying the SUN and The Times, he’s built a world wide empire and become a billionaire. On a local level, his henchman like Ligger Neil infiltrated and now run tory BBC politics. At an international level, his FOX network is the Trump network, from the billions he made off the Simpsons, its that mad in the business billionaire stratosphere.

      It looks like we are now in a Murdoch display of power like the one that took down Gordon Brown’s government and neither Labour or Brown have ever recovered from being annihilated by Murdoch, within the space of a few weeks.

      Imagine what it was like for a dude like Gordon Brown, to suddenly have his career in politics ended almost over night, having considered uncle Rupert a close family friend.

    40. How can anyone seriously believe the express, daily mail Sky, BBC etc support independence?
      Do they actually read these rags or listen to and take in the out put of those TV stations?

    41. Puzzled Puss says:

      Well, we knew it was going to get very dirty, but by telling such blatant untruths, surely they must be shooting themselves in the foot.


    42. Vestas says:

      James Kelly (Scot Goes Pop) has an article up ripping Sky’s “poll” to shreds 🙂

    43. Jamie says:

      This is no surprise to me, as the most recent comment from Rupert Murdoch on Scottish Independence was something along the lines of that he is worried by the SNP government and their Socialist policies.

      He then went on to groan that he preferred when the SNP were planning on crashing corporation tax in a race to the bottom with Ireland. He used a phrase that Scotland should be trying to emulate that fit and healthy Celtic Tiger, Ireland.

      Quite amusing really as the SNP are very far from Socialist, but it should serve as a warning to anyone who dares to be complacent regarding Rupert Murdoch’s supposed Independence sympathies, the only thing that guy is sympathetic to is his bank balance and anything that will improve it. He will stab anyone in the process when it suits him just look at how his press have turned on Labour now that Tony Blair is no longer in charge.

      It was not that long ago before the Scottish election some time ago that the Scottish Sun ran the headline on election day saying if you vote SNP you might as well stick Scotland’s neck in a noose. An absolutely shocking headline and further proof that guy is a slimey weasel/shifty reptile not to be trusted.

    44. Sinky says:

      Saw Sky or perhaps BBC News channel (sound was muted) in shop about 10.30 or so with reporter outside Holyrood with Scottish papers. They did include The National front page but afteer this they then showed some inside pages focussing on an inside page trashing the SNP but no coverage of Richard Murphy’s National article rubbishing GERS.

      To counter get on with the day job nonsense go to
      and download for future reference

    45. Chick McGregor says:

      @Peter McCulloch

      My guess is that most of them never read or watch anything on politics and just tick a couple of random boxes so they don’t appear moronic.

    46. Neil Cook says:

      The more people that call out the media as Fake news all the time mud begins to stick. I do it at every opportunity and it must back a mandatory requirement on social media.

      The more we do it people then question the validity of the articles and agree with the consensus. Reverse psychology is what Trump used and it worked for him. Call out everything out as a lie by the unionists (we know it is!!) But people will come round to our way of thinking.

    47. gordoz says:

      Manufactured rubbish by an International broadcaster with a track record.

      Sad fact; sections of the public will fall for this clearly manipulated ‘Fake News’ … All following the American Model as with Brexit phallacy.

      No shame within the media these days.

    48. Capella says:

      The Great Referendum Debate will begin in 30 mins or so. Link to Parliament tv to avoid SKY/BBC “framing” of what is happening. Everyone has an amendment tabled to Nicola’s proposal.

    49. desimond says:

      All the “PINS PINS PINS!” is coming helluva early is it not?

      What exactly are they scared off this early in the process?

      We have already had Gordon Brown and now made up Poll Nonsense. Its almost like Dads Army screaming DONT PANIC!

    50. Dr Jim says:

      Moses was divisive says SKY/FOX news
      The daily Egyptian Mail at the time said “Moses is an enemy of the state”
      The daily Caligraph said “Moses must be stopped at all costs”
      Moses poll ratings plummet due to his unpopularity with his own people “Pharoh more popular than Moses” claimed the Pharisee news

      Nuthins changed eh!

    51. @Chick McGregor
      21 March, 2017 at 1:24 pm

      I suspect you are right, in your assessment of such people.
      I have lost count of people whom I have encountered over the years, who have told me they are not interested in politics.
      Yet troop out and voted Labour.

    52. gordoz says:

      Prediction – If bias within media persists, Independence will be constructively aborted,

      Carefully orchestrated termination awaits if inroads into fairer media coverage do not emerge.

      Its not rocket science,it worked before and its on track to work again.

      Saw the excellent Sandy Goudie ‘Tam o’ Shanter’ exhibition at Rozell – Alloway recently – wonderful but scary depiction of the dark side.

      Sad, but there you go, and Scottish public will again be piped over a cliff like Lib Demmings & Red Tories.

      Ruth Harrison blawin’ the tunes & Kezzy D whirlin like the ‘cutty sark’ … Utter Madness!

    53. Dal Riata says:

      From Sky News’ own Editorial Guidelines:

      “Due impartiality and due accuracy

      Sky News must always be duly impartial and duly accurate. We always strive to solicit a broad range of views and voices on our stories and never to show favour to – or be influenced by – any side of a story.

      The Communications Act and the Ofcom Broadcasting Code set out special impartiality requirements for coverage of matters relating to political or industrial controversy or matters relating to public policy. The rules include:

      • Not allowing our personal views or opinions to form a part of our coverage.

      • Making sure views and facts are not misrepresented.

      • Making sure all significant opinion is duly reflected on any controversial issues.

      • Making sure any personal interest of a reporter or presenter is made clear to viewers – they must not use their position to express their own views.

      • Members of staff have a duty to disclose to senior management any personal interest which may potentially jeopardise their duty to report with due impartiality.

      • Making sure particular views and opinions are not given undue prominence over others.

      Absolute LOLZ!

      Recently, they have broken every one of these rules? (except – perhaps – the one second from last) they have pointed out in bullet point form!

      Ehh… Ofcom… Hello?… Hello?… What’s that? Nothing to see here? The rules are conveniently ignored when the UK’s Unionist mainstream media reports on Scottish independence? Oh… Right… That must be ok, then, eh…

    54. galamcennalath says:


      Allegedly he got a standing ovation 🙂

      Video / more info would be good!

    55. arthur thomson says:

      The gullible will swallow this rubbish – and all other rubbish because they are gullible.

      Anyone with any sense or an open mind will see this as rubbish and discount it along with all other rubbish.

      We need to mock it for the mickey mouse poll that it is.

    56. Proud Cybernat says:

      When the Colonial Media start printing/broadcasting ‘facts’ that the people here – even NO voters – instinctively know is a pile of steaming keech (May/Davidson are more popular than Sturgeon), then the game really is a bogie. The lie doesn’t even have to be all over social media for people in Scotland to know it is utter utter crap. And when people who hitherto paid little attention to the blatant propaganda suddenly see something they instinctively know is wrong and untrue, then their alarm bells will be going off and they will start questioning what they are being told.

      With their own pish they drive more people away from them into the YES camp. Most people do not like being lied to and most Scots will instinctively know these are blatant lies being peddled as truth.

      And if by using these underhand, undemocratic, deceitful propaganda helps NO over the line in IndyRef2 (ScotRef), then I, for one, will be dusting myself down and demanding IndyRef3. Only when these buggers learn to Respect the Rules will I ever Respect the Result. If they don’t fight fair then it is not a fair result and I will most certainly be demanding a re-run.

      Neverendum is their choice and their making.

    57. galamcennalath says:

      Tory plan ..

      – try to convince voters ScotRef isn’t needed
      – try to convince voters ScotRef isn’t wanted
      – try to show Scotland can’t afford it
      – try to say there is no mandate
      – try to delay ScotRef
      – try to stop ScotRef
      – try to stop 16/17 & EU folks voting

      …. their problem is, they aren’t Bruce’s spider. Nae point in them trying all this!

    58. call me dave says:

      NS already has been interrupted three times in about 2 minutes trying to make her opening remarks on the Section 30 debate by points of order. Oops 5 times and given way 3 times.

    59. Rupert Burdock says:

      Of course figures from Sky favouring the Tories are not connected in any way with the desire of Fox Corporation to buy the rest of Sky. That simply couldn’t be the case. That kind of corruption doesn’t happen in the UK. It’s one of the least corrupt countries in the world and one of the safest for honest hardworking Russians and others to keep their assets safe.

    60. galamcennalath says:


      I can’t find it, too impatient!

      Can someone extract the appropriate segment and post it?

    61. FIONA TOMANY says:

      yes voters should start join things like panel base and yougov they are free to join and tip the balance the other way. Every time i here a recent result of yougov however I never got that survey so it does make yo wonder

    62. manandboy says:

      SKY News broadcasts the TV equivalent of diarrhoea – which is usually a symptom of a bowel infection, commonly caused by a virus, or bacteria present in food.

      So when you think of Sky news, think of it as an infection leading to poisoning of the minds of Sky viewers.

      The same can be said of the BBC, as well as a number of other news broadcasters.

      The irony is that while everyone subcribes to the idea of medical prescriptions to improve our health, with SkyNews and the BBC News, we pay to be poisoned by lies.

    63. Nana says:

      @Gala roughly around 55.40 he mentions Scotland

    64. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      roughly around 55.40 he mentions Scotland

      Thanks. Not as exciting as billed!

    65. Macart says:


      Thanks Nana. He does urge the members to support Scotland, but the ovation was really for his overall speech.

    66. Mike says:

      Patrick Harvey ripping Borg Queen Ruth a brand new one.

      Throwing back her own words and her own commitments back at her.

      Bitch slapped silly. metaphorically.

    67. Andy Anderson says:

      This information makes me annoyed. My only happiness in all this is that I have never had Sky at home. Bunch of unprofessional w#####s.
      I am hoping that the Daily Record is switching sides as they are allowing Nicola a weekly slot. I note also that the Courier, Guardian and the Herald have had a few pro articles lately. Any real movement in paper media support will not happen though until the debate heats up and the polling shows a move to our side.

    68. Nana says:

      @Macart & Gala

      Exactly, the ovation for for the whole speech which was excellent.

      Good man for urging them to stand up for Scotland.

    69. ScottishPsyche says:

      Sky really ramping up the rhetoric at the moment and showing their ignorance in spades. That ‘The Pledge’ episode with Boris Johnson’s sister and Carole Malone was one of the worst things I have seen – it was as if they were completely unaware that Scottish people of a different opinion might be watching.Sky were particularly guilty of sending up London based journos who went over the whole thing again in the last few weeks before IndyRef1 – doing the reporting as foreign correspondents.

      I thought Faisal Islam was better than this but he is not doing himself any favours allowing this stuff to go out unchallenged.

      Aidan Kerr in trouble again for putting out immature pompous comment. He really has an unhealthy lack of curiosity about information deemed official. I guess that is why he is such a Reagan fanboy.

      I am not watching the debate but following it on social media.So far it seems all Bingo card stuff from the yoons.

    70. Breeks says:

      Damned if I’m wasting data watching Ruth Davidson counter on about how you can’t have a referendum without knowing the consequences. Hasn’t anybody told the silly cow the UK voted for Brexit? The most truly damaging and mind numbing stupid thing to do without so much as a plan, or even rudimentary appreciation of what it was going to involve, steered by arrogant SPIV like Farage, who is channelled by PM May who bluffs her way past criticism by quoting the National interest as her excuse not to reveal her hand. She has no hand to play!!

      One rule for Tories, but another set of rules for Scotland eh Ruthie? You make me sick.

      By your argument, if I was pointing a gun at my foot, I’d have to shoot myself to know if it was a bad idea. I would rather consider the evidence and decide against pulling the trigger BEFORE shooting myself. You and your Brexiteers can drive off the cliff if you like. For the love of God allow your Country the freedom to say no.

      We don’t even have Unionists, we have feckin idiots, fickle and shallow. She herself was an advocate for staying in the EU, like May the PM come to think of it.

      Ruth Davidson you are a liar and a hypocrite, and Tory to the rotten core. “May you live forever”, oh great Ephialtes.

    71. Mike says:

      Rennies up now and A cannae wait to hear him square the circle between denying Scotland a second Indy ref while his party pushes for a second EU ref.

    72. liz says:

      Interesting, Murray Foote of the Record now actually starting to ask questions about GERS.

      With Richard Murphy being an English professor of economics, he can’t just dismiss him.

      Also, however pretending that no-one had ever questioned GERS before, saying show me the evidence

    73. Lemon says:

      Hang on a minute:

      A subsidy of £1638 x 5 million people = a deficit of £8 Billion !
      I have just 1/2 the Yoons Scottish Deficit !
      Take off £1 billion for defense, £3 Billion for interest, £1 Billion for OAP Pensions and our Yoon Scottish Deficit is now only £4 Billion !!!
      I could give Kevin Hague a run for his money ;o)

    74. Macart says:

      Don’t know if anyone is following the WoS twitter feed, but OMG Kezia Dugdale’s input to the debate is catastrophic.

      Short form – The union is beneficial and has been good for Scotland, but we should working against those nasty Tories and end austerity and poverty…. Ummmmm!?!

      Oh and we should stop all this awfie divisiveness say the branch manager of a political party in an adversarial political system.

      Again… Ummmmm!?!

    75. Artyhetty says:

      Wow the big lies bombs are coming thick n fast from the yoons now. They really are going all out to brainwash the gullible. How long can they keep this up. SNP, nazi’s in disguise, the rich, they are very good, the EU, it’s bad, oil is bad, Scotland could never afford to be independent, absolutely no one wants independence, oh and definitely not a referendum, no no no! Tereza the terror, is good and much more popular than Nicola Sturgeon. Jeezus, halleyoonia!

      In fact, Ruthie the mooth, is far more popular than anyone else in the while wide world so there!

      Is we go down, we are taking you with us Scotland, cos we is all even stevens eh. LOL.

      Nicola S must be pulling her hair out by now, having to waste time on justifying the SNP’s existence, while the yoons shout get on with the day job.

    76. Mike says:

      Rennie ranting and sneering and refusing to take interventions.

      And he wonders why he doesn’t have a mandate to even be in that Parliament.

    77. call me dave says:

      Harvey was excellent.

      Kezia and bitter Wullie especially is not taking it well, so divisive it’s too much trouble, it’s not good to talk, what a toadie! 🙁

      At least with Ruthless you know where you are.

    78. Philip Dixon says:

      I’m probably missing something obvious, but I can’t find a link in the article to the Panelbase underlying data, and the “Polls” section of the website only goes up to January 2016.

      Could anyone provide a link, please?

    79. call me dave says:

      FGS! All the FTSEs have dropped like a stone since Rennie made the case for the union. Ma shares Wullie! 🙂

      Prof Tompkins saying the UK is being generous… who knew?

      Off to do some ironing… it’s all too,too divisive 🙁

    80. Mike says:

      Tomkins accuses Scottish Government of not answering his questions while he continues to refuse interventions.


    81. Philip Dixon says:

      Following on from my previous question, I expect the data is supposed to be here: (, but it looks like Panelbase have messed up the scan – some pages appear twice, and I suspect others have been omitted.

    82. heedtracker says:

      Christ, just switched on Holyrood tv, my Slovene girlfriend raging at FM, “we said no and we meant it.” Turns off tv again.

      Great kisser though:D

    83. ScottishPsyche says:


      Yes I saw that with Murray Foote – but, but, but why did nobody say anything before now…?

      Absolute joke of an editor who was happy to promote the turgid meanderings of an internet barrow boy as gospel.

    84. Arbroath1320 says:

      SKY News are now in a head to head race to the bottom of the sewer with the long time leader in this race the BBC.

    85. Andrew Gordon says:

      “Presiding Officer point of order !”
      Is it not disrespectful to the parliament and the Scottish people to stand up and lie your arse off,Ruth,Kezia,Willie and their respected (disrespected ) party members.

    86. manandboy says:

      When integrity is lacking, an individual will wander in their stated beliefs and consistency and honesty will be discarded. Such are the leaders of the three opposition parties at Holyrood.

    87. galamcennalath says:

      call me dave says:

      At least with Ruthless you know where you are.

      A fair point!

      The label on the Tory tin can says, “Contains a bunch of elitist scumbags who will fck over ordinary folks at every opportunity”.

      So no one should ever be surprised when they perform as promised. And anyways, lots of people apparently like that sort of thing.

      Labour and LibDems somehow maintain a pretence to be more wholesome and caring. The reality is, their tin cans have contain much the same as the Tories.

    88. Cadogan Enright says:

      I have been studying the new OFCOM rules and regulations on accuracy and impartiality as applied to the BBC make interesting reading.


      Ask for an investigation citing the fact that their statistics appear widely out of kilter with all other recognized polling organisations and that Sky Data isn’t regulated by the British Polling Council, so unlike the three recognised pollsters above it’s not required to release its raw data for scrutiny

      In particular, in view of the local elections in May, plus ScotRef and a possible snap election the sentence in section 2.27 of the overall OFCOM regulatory document is of special note;

      “Ofcom will have the power to ‘step in’ and intervene in a BBC editorial case at an earlier stage, or to launch an investigation in the absence of a complaint, where considered necessary.” THIS ALREADY APPLIES TO SKY

      Here is the overall OFcom summary document Sections 2.12, 2.13, 2.24, 2.25, 2.27 and 3.3 are relevent

      NOTE that 3.3 says “We are currently consulting [Link] on new rules for election and referendum periods, and rules for party political and referendum broadcasts (including proposed revisions to the Broadcasting Code rules for due accuracy and due impartiality) which we will publish by late February/early March 2017. ”

      The Document is called “Ofcom’s rules on due impartiality, due accuracy, elections and referendums: Within the document it says

      “2.6 Specifically, Section 5 of the Code sets out rules reflecting standards objectives in the area of due impartiality and due accuracy. Section 6 of the Code sets out rules for election and referendum-related editorial content. ”

      Followed in section 3 “Broadcasters’ editorial coverage of elections and referendums 3.4 Reflecting our duties to set broadcast standards in the area of due accuracy and due impartiality, we require licensed broadcasters’ editorial coverage relevant to elections and referendums – e.g. news and current affairs programming – to comply with Section Five (due impartiality) and Section Six (elections and referendums) of the Code.”

      The paragraphs following this in section 3 debate how political parties will be covered and who is a ‘large party’ and who is not – IE UKIP could be large but the SNP might not. Section 3.13 is especially relevant here

      The punchline is in section 4.9 “Therefore, we propose that the rules applied to Ofcom-licensed services requiring that: television and radio news should be duly accurate and duly impartial; and nonnews content dealing with matters of political or industrial controversy and matters relating to current public policy should be presented with due impartiality, should also apply to the BBC.” NOTE IT ALREADY APPLIES TO SKY


      KEY PRINCIPLES for OFcom:

      – To ensure that news, in whatever form, is reported with due accuracy and presented with due impartiality.
      – To ensure that the special impartiality requirements of the Act are complied with.”

    89. heedtracker says:

      Turns on Holyrood tv, Anas is “angry,” turns off tv again.

    90. heedtracker says:

      Just been told Anas is a dentist.

    91. sensibledave says:

      heedtracker 3:18 pm

      You wrote “Christ, just switched on Holyrood tv, my Slovene girlfriend raging at FM, “we said no and we meant it.” Turns off tv again.”

      … Ah all becomes clear Heedy. The hen-pecked partner kicks off at everyone else, everywhere else, because he gets short shrift at home from the boss!

      (PS I may know someone else that isn’t held in quite such high esteem at home!)

    92. ScottishPsyche says:

      Anas Sarwar. Why?

    93. Robert Graham says:

      Just watched a pretty fractious interview with Jim Sillars on Independence live ,
      Wrong Interviewer in my opinion, he set out to confront Jim but got slapped down pretty quickly Jims no fool .
      A lot of people believe Jim has lost his marbles ,well he can quote chapter and verse and has read most of the European treaties ,
      Jim as most would gather not a fan of the EU, and listed a whole series of points that show it’s not the aim of the EU to uphold workers rights but the EU and EU courts appear to side with business and their requirements.
      Thats why TTIP was being negotiated in farcical circumstances and total mind boggling secrecy , where MePs were unable to under fear of prosecution pass on or even comment on details they had read , by all means invoke a restriction on commercially sensitive material , but this was on the same level as the divulging of Nuclear launch codes , as Jim commented Not everyone is a fan of the Eu and its folly to base a referendum on this alone , far better to go with the obvious one of we have No Power to change anything .

    94. galamcennalath says:

      GERS and Scotland having a £15billion deficit ….

      8% of the population cannot possibly cause 22% of the UK deficit

      … debunked in a one liner.

    95. Macart says:

      I agree with Mr Sarwar 100%.

      He didn’t give Scotland the truth in 2014. 🙂

    96. Thepnr says:

      Two and a half years now without Sky or a TV license. A report from the BBC published in January this year showed that 10% of households in Scotland no longer have a license compared to 6% in England & Wales.

      I subsribe to Netflix and Amazon prime for some great TV series and films though the truth is I am more than likely on the internet reading this or that.

      I can also watch any catch up station other than the BBC so why was I wasting so much money previously. My subscriptions to the online channels actually work out cheaper than the license and the amount I save on not taking Sky is quite a big deal as I had the full package.

      Dump them. I don’t believe in paying to be lied to and they are liars.

    97. Bob Mack says:

      Labour, Tory and Lib Dem focus on health,education rather than Brexit. Gosh every field where Scotland is outperforming England by a distance. If ours is bad ,why are they defending a union with a country where these aspects of life are even worse and will eventually affect us.

      Have you ever heard any of them criticising English public services ?

      I cannot fathom what goes on in their mind.

    98. gordoz says:

      Yaaas the truth teams strikes back !!!

      Direct quote from Mr Sarwar of Labour in the North !

      “we did not tell the truth in 2014″… Doh!!

    99. Breeks says:

      Patrick Harvie was excellent.

      His closing point about everybody having a say over Scotland’s place in Europe, except the people of Scotland, should be on bill posters up and down the country and posted through every letter box.

    100. Scott says:

      I wish that the next Green or SNP person interviewed by BBC person would tell them that even without the Greens the vote for would still be passed and not allow BBC away with another lie.

      Has the men in white suits be sent for Tompkins yet.

    101. heedtracker says:

      … Ah all becomes clear Heedy. The hen-pecked partner kicks off at everyone else, everywhere else, because he gets short shrift at home from the boss!

      Hey sensible, are you looking at my Slovene girlfriend? She’s hot though eh sensible, sexy when she’s angry.

      We go way back too, she used to rage away vote NO you fascist ungrateful scumbag Scots, btl, on the Graun Scottish section, miles and miles and miles of Ljubljana says vote NO! commenting, 2014.

      Then she popped up again, btl Graun, same endless rage at the English for daring to vote Leave. She never said the real reason, that it could easily break up his beloved UK, but that would be too honest for the spiv. Anyway, since Brexit ref she’s got into politics big time, and she’s kept mute, btl that is.

      She’ll be back, the worst kind of convert tory zealot, from far left trot republican, to raging high tory unionist spiv, in Scotland. Its not pretty.

      Slovenia really is though, wow its a gorgeous country, smeared forever, by a sneaky shit like Prof Smirky there, well not forever sensibledave, nothing’s forever, not even England’s rule over Scotland:D

    102. Conan the Librarian says:

      Anas Sarwar has just said “We didn’t give Scotland the truth in 2014”.

      Good grief, he bloody well just admitted it!

    103. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Sarwar in the debate echoing one of Wee Willie’s points by attempting to deter people from a referendum by arguing it puts “chaos upon chaos”.

      Cringemeisters at their day job, oozing self-defeating negativity.

      This “chaos” rhetoric is analogous to saying that people on a sinking ship mustn’t use a readily-available lifeboat because – oooh! – it might be deeply worrying to even think about it.

      This negative “rabbit in headlights” strategy reveals just how contemptuous these people are of the ordinary voter and how uncertain they feel about any (dubious) merits of the unionist case.

      Sarwar ends by saying he respects the will of the people, apparently having conveniently forgotten all about that 62% pro-EU vote. Hypocrisy doesn’t even half describe it.

    104. Macart says:

      Pretty much the message of the opposition benches from the branch managers on down –


      One more time with feeling… Ummmmm!?!

    105. Macart says:

      Or even ‘STOP’. 😀 LOL

    106. Ian McCubbin says:

      Have this my usual investigation and retweeted the sky data with a fake news warning highlighting the phrase about registered addresses. This as you rightly point out Stu a dead give away.
      So agree Yes movement faced with the same tricks spin and better together linkage of false facts with key debates as last time.
      The one difference I hear in the communities is that people are less gullable.

    107. Thepnr says:

      Just over a week now since Nicola Sturgeon announced in Bute House that she was seeking a Section 30 order for another Independence referendum and the Unionist media are in meltdown.

      Blatant lying and false polls indicating that May is more popular than Sturgeon in Scotland is so obviously a mis-truth that even the most ignorant must see this.

      No way that this constant distorting of the truth can be kept up for 18 months, there will be a tipping point when the majority just groan and say “Oh dear God, more bullshit from the Tories.”

      This is a Tory v Self Determination fight, the Tories have never won in Scotland in my lifetime so there is reason to hope. The Independence movement destroyed Labour in Scotland and a large part of that was down to the “Red Tory” label sticking. That’s how much we hate Tories that we managed to decimate the Labour Party at the same time.

      The Tories are the EVEL party let’s make that plain every time we open our mouths to discuss the referendum in the coming months with others. EVEL Tory B’Stards in charge in Scotland or a government responsible to Scottish votes and ONLY people in Scotland.

      Our ain government.

    108. Jack Murphy says:

      Scottish Parliament TV.
      Main Chamber:-

    109. John H. says:

      I sometimes watch SKY News Preview but purely for entertainment value.If I took them or any of the MSM seriously I’d probably have had a heart attack by now.

      Half an hour ago while driving, I listened to Shelagh Fogarty on LBC speak of our parliament, apparently it’s an “assembly”, and our FM in the most condescending terms. I have always liked Shelagh, finding her very even handed on most subjects, but as I realise now not on Scottish independence.

      They really do think that they own us and our country. If anyone here thinks that a Yes vote will be the end of it then they had better think again. We are going to have to fight all the way up to Independence Day, so we may as well get used to the idea.

    110. call me dave says:

      @Macart or even STROP! 🙂

      Ironing done and I see it’s just the same whining faces that keep getting in on the unionist list vote ‘We cannae dae it’

    111. Sinky says:

      Anas Sarwar on fighting the Tories

      Scottish Labour MP’s who voted in favour of the Tory benefit cap by George Osborne on 26 March 2014 were:

      ANAS SARWAR – Glasgow Central
      Margaret Curran – Glasgow East
      Tom Greatrex – Rutherglen and Hamilton West
      IAN MURRAY – Edinburgh South
      Willie Bain – Glasgow North East
      Gordon Banks – Ochil and South Perthshire
      Tom Clarke – Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill
      Dame Anne Begg – Aberdeen South
      Alistair Darling – Edinburgh South West
      Ian Davidson – Glasgow South West
      Thomas Docherty – Dunfermline and west Fife
      Frank Doran – Aberdeen North
      Gemma Doyle – West Dunbartonshire
      SHEILA GILMORE – Edinburgh East
      David Hamilton – Midlothian
      Tom Harris – Glasgow South
      Jimmy Hood – Lanark and Hamilton East
      Cathy Jamieson – Kilmarnock and Loudon
      MARK LAZAROWICZ – Edinburgh North and Leith
      Gregg McClymont – Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East
      Anne McGuire – Stirling
      Anne McKechin – Glasgow North
      Iain McKenzie – Greeenock and Inverclyde
      Grahame Morrice – Livingston
      Jim Murphy – East Renfrewshire
      Pamela Nash – Airdrie and Shotts
      Sandra Osborne – Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock
      John Robertson – Glasgow North West
      Frank Roy – Motherwell and Wishaw
      Lindsay Roy – Glenrothes

      Gordon Brown as usual failed to turn up

    112. Robert Peffers says:

      @HandandShrimp says: 21 March, 2017 at 12:48 pm:

      ” … If he genuinely believes May is popular in Scotland then he really is a buffoon.”

      What do you mean, “If he really believes”? He either does believe it and he is a buffoon, or he fondly imagines that sane Scottish voters will believe it, then that proves he is a buffoon.

      But then most sane Scots voters already knew that Murdo was a buffoon although some Scots spell that balloon. If you want to know the difference between the two the balloon holds a little more hot air.

    113. Ken500 says:

      The only accurate thing SKy Fake News gets right is the date. Apart from that people switch off.

      Murdoch is a tax evading criminal who bribed public office official and hacked phone. The incorrect biased News coverage is an International disgrace. People just switch off. What else could be expected from illegal warmongers who associate with crooked tax evading Non Doms. Killing and maiming millions of innocent people all over the world. Crooked tax evading Non Doms who should be in jail.

      The Unionists are a disgrace colluding with tax evading Non Dom warmongers. Responsible for the illegally killing and maiming of millions of innocent people the world over. The Unionists are a disgrace. Wasting £trns of taxpayers money on illegal wars redundant weaponry and tax evading, banking fraud. Spending £Billions on squint Trident. While cutting essential public services.

    114. Macart says:

      @ call me dave


      No wait! That actually works.

      STROP it is. 🙂

    115. ScottishPsyche says:

      Alex Rowley might have had a chance but he blew it- no coming back now. Semantic cowardly argument relying on polls.

    116. Ken500 says:

      Teresa May is one of the most unpopular politician in the world. Especially in Scotland, Tories are not popular. Another Thatcher only a million times worse. She is a danger to the society and is responsible for illegal wars. Sanctioning and maiming millions of innocent people. Most people can’t stand the sight of many Unionist politicians. They are hypocritical liars.

    117. TheItalianJob says:

      @John H at 4.07

      My thoughts too.

      WM do think they own our country and we have no say in the matter.

      If we do vote yes WM will fight to keep what they think they own in Scotland could be anything from the Financial institutions (including banks) to whisky, oil etc.

      They may go even further and not recognise the vote.

      It is not going to be straightforward by any means. We will need the full team of our Pro Independence law team backed up with International bodies to assist us through the negotiations to ensuring fairness is applied.

    118. galamcennalath says:


      All those names. Almost all gone from politics. Not weel kent ony mair!

      Only Anas Sarwar and Ian Murray still ‘in circulation’.

      Proof that Scotland is making steady progress.

      Labour councils next.

    119. Dr Jim says:

      One thing seems abundantly clear, while other countries have referendums and it doesn’t seem to be much of a problem for them, Scotland we’re told has a phobia possibly even a terror of referendums bordering on a danger to our mental health at the very thought of such an exercise, our lives and possibly our childrens lives might be put at risk by such a foolhardy endeavour as putting a cross in a box to answer a question

      I myself have difficulty recognising this fear and dread but maybe I’m wrong maybe it’s the word itself, although I confess I’ve repeated it over and over to test this theory on myself possibly risking damage to my own health by attempting this dangerous and unsupervised examination of the word, but so far I am unharmed so as yet cannot conclude with any certainty that danger does or does not exist by repeating this word

      So I urge others to try the experiment, gently at first in case you may be susceptable to some of the fears mentioned by opponents of the word, but if no ill effects are experienced one should continue using the word until it feels comfortable to use in daily life and by the time the actual event happens you should be able like most ordinary people in most ordinary countries to go forth and vote with positivity

      YES to the word!

    120. call me dave says:

      Mr Rowley… the Rev I.M. Jolly in S. Lab, wringing his hands and calling for opposition to the tories and at the same time we must get the best deal for Brexit… and now is not the time!

      Let me think about that for a minute! It won’t be labour, either in Scotland or darn Sarf!

      As for getting a wee seat round the UK Brexit table, well the SG tried that, still trying it, but we were told to eat our porridge and get to the back of the queue until it’s decided what going to be done to us. What now Mr Rowley?

      The referendum will be 18 months away at least not now Mr Rowley!

      We have to have a lifeboat.

    121. Sinky says:

      The Bedroom Tax is a Westminster Tax originally introduced by the last Labour government to deal with the high cost of housing allowance in London but later made more draconian by Tories / Lib Dems .

      The “deputy” leader of Labour in Scotland and MP for Glasgow Central, Anas Sarwar, was in Pakistan rather than voting against the bedroom tax in the House of Commons on 13th November 2013.

      Ten of the 40 Scottish Labour MPs couldn’t be bothered to vote in the debate which was lost by only 26 votes.

    122. Vestas says:

      Ken500 4:20 pm :

      “Another Thatcher only a million times worse.”

      She’s Thatcher without the brains or the will. May is utterly facile.

    123. manandboy says:

      Jenny Marra – must have just got back from a year on the planet Mars. So out of date, so out of touch – an embarrassment.

    124. Glamaig says:

      In 2014 it was argued that if Scotland became independent it was claimed that it would be out of the EU, and England Wales + NI would be the successor state.

      Why cant Scotland be the successor state, and the rest secede? Scotland and England, two signatories to the Treaty of Union, two equals.

    125. Thepnr says:


      “Labour councils next”

      Yes and Tory ones too if possible, I’ve relaxed a bit about the Greens voting against the SG in the budget and will follow the advice of James Kelly in using all my votes.

      Put it this way my council is a minority run SNP council (Angus) with 29 seats, SNP have 14, Independents 9, Tories 4 and Lab and Lib 1 each. Now if we could squeeze a Green in there I’d like to think that they would become a majority council with Green support.

      Also there is 1 Independent who resigned from the SNP due to disagreement with SNP leaders on the closure of a primary school in his ward. Nothing wrong with standing up for your constituents so he’ll be well up my list as well.

      Know your Council make up, know your ward candidates, that’s how you might make the most difference to the SNP/Independence alliance of sorts running your council rather than Labour or EVEL Tories. If the main threat in your Council to the SNP candidates are Tory then rank Liberal and Labour ahead of them.

      Vice-versa where you want rid of a Labour council.

    126. call me dave says:

      Jenna Marra.. What’s she like? More porridge, in smaller bowls too

      Disgraceful! “Rule out a 3rd referendum” says she as she closes.

    127. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Macart @ 16:15,

      Is there any truth in the rumour (which I’ve just started) that Kezia, Truthless and Wee Willie are pulling their parties out of the coming council elections because “they’re too divisive”…? =grin=

    128. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Alex Rowley: “I will have no truck with Tories”, well, other than voting with them.

    129. Mike says:

      I’m still trying to get my head around the fact that I’m living in a divisive 1 party State.

    130. If those poll results are true which I doubt I bet those Scottish addresses were all Incomers I mean it is like. Standing outside Ibrox at a rangers home game and asking do you like the pope and then claim a 100per cent no vote and imply this is the feeling of the whole of Scotland polls are a complete farce and should be illegal they never tell you how many people they asked or where they asked the questions

    131. Macart says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland

      DIVISIVE AND VILE (frankly) RUMOURS. 🙂

    132. Robert Peffers says:

      @Chick McGregor says: 21 March, 2017 at 1:24 pm:

      “My guess is that most of them never read or watch anything on politics and just tick a couple of random boxes so they don’t appear moronic.”

      You’re not wrong there, Chick. Back when we were in the last few days of indyref1 I was stopped while out walking the wee dog by a lady about my own age. She had seen the crop of SNP. YES and Indy badges I wore and she launched into an attack on the YES movement and the SNP in particular.

      I bit my tongue for a wee wile and let her get on with it. Then I asked her if she got the full state pension or did she rely upon the stamps paid by her husband. She said she was a widow and had the state pension and a very small works pension.

      So I said so you will be voting no so that you will be paying more Council tax, then? You will also have to give up your free bus pass and if you fall ill be ready to pay your prescriptions? I hope you keep good health for if you need care at home you will have to either do without or pay for it if, as you just said you hoped the SNP would lose and Westminster would end the Holyrood parliament.

      It all went very quiet for a brief second or two then she said, “How do you mean I’d lose out on things? I said of course you would for everything I mentioned Labour has voted against or abstained on votes about those things and that is both at Holyrood and Westminster.

      Then it was, “But they couldn’t take them away could they”. I said no more than – don’t take my word for it go ask any unionist – there’s a few of them just up the Main Street a wee bit.

      I don’t know if it had any effect but it proves your point that lots of the YESSERS hadn’t a clue of what the issues were.

    133. manandboy says:

      The Tories keep tripping over their belief that the UK is one single country by asking Nicola why she does not accept the democratic decision of the UK in EU Ref16.

      Blinded by their accumulated prejudice, and failure to understand the Act of Union, as well as their own statements about being equal partners, the Tories continue to act as if Scotland is but a region of England.

      With this view, there can be no progress for Scotland except to end the Treaty of Union and go our separate ways.

    134. manandboy says:

      Blair Paterson – you have done us all a great service with this piece of brilliant clarity re opinion polls.

    135. Andrew Gordon says:

      Can anyone help re cancelling TV licence ?
      I’ve seen lots of posts in the past of how to go about cancelling my TV licence on these pages but now I am so incensed by the BBC I have to stop contributing can any one help ?
      Can you post any help on off topic as I don’t want to interrupt the comments here.

    136. clan rossy says:

      To all the people who wish to deny us our voice.

      There’s a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it.

      very apt at this time,
      and from a true scotsman.

      tories ,lib/dems ,and the judas party
      you should all hang your head in shame
      you are a disgrace to scotland end of.

    137. One_Scot says:

      If anyone having watched the antics of the Yoons at the Holyrood debate feels they would to do something to help Scotland move forward, you could do a lot worse than contribute to Nicolas Independence fund,

    138. Vestas says:

      Fucking hell, there’s another day of this drivel before the vote in favour? 🙁

      I think I’ll go watch Netflix & tune in for the vote tomorrow evening….

    139. mike d says:

      Agree with breeks at 12.56pm. By what divine right does Westminster have to tell us that broadcasting is a reserved matter? Tell them to gtf and get a neutral Scottish broadcasting channel up and running.

    140. yesindyref2 says:

      So there’s lies, damned lies, and Sky Data.

    141. yesindyref2 says:

      Buzzfeed does very well on that by the way, I can see why it’s increasingly quoted. You have to ask – why can’t broadcasters and the general established media be more like that?

    142. Thepnr says:

      @Andrew Gordon

      I’ve put a post on Off Topic for you regarding the TV license.

    143. chris kilby says:

      Other political leaders more popular than Nicola Sturgeon*:

      Lex Luthor (USA)
      Dr Doom (Latveria)
      Emperor Palpatine (Galactic Empire)

      * Source: MSM (London)

    144. chris kilby says:

      Does anyone actually fall for this shite?

      (Serious question.)

    145. manandboy says:

      UNIONIST MSPS – Masters of hypocrisy, pretending to be one thing, while actually, they’re something else.

      In Holyrood today at the Section 30 Debate, the Elephant in the Room was clearly visible in the three Unionist parties, whose leaders, incidentally, all spoke from a prepared written speech, though I prefer the word ‘script’.

      The EITR to which I refer is of course the fact that the Conservatives, Labour and LibDems are, as Scottish Branch Office members, agents of Westminster.

      Masquerading as representatives of their own constituencies – and, naturally, speaking for Scotland too, they nevertheless each say the same things, using the same words and phrases and always aiming at the same target, each obeying the same Master in London.

      The only thing missing is that they don’t see what we see, as they pretend to speak for Scotland while demanding to be given the respect which is the right of every truly genuine MSP.
      And when those Unionist members speak, Theresa May has a voice in the Scottish Parliament.

    146. call me dave says:

      Rousing stuff … man the barricades for socialism (S. Lab) style

      Neil Findlay just told three definite lies there + one other maybe not true thingy.

      1. We do not have to join the Euro
      2. The 3% regulation is also not a definite
      3. If the parties agree in Holyrood SNP + Greens it’s a majority!

      Kezia beat him in the lab leadership contest… says it all really.

    147. Glamaig says:

      Mike Russell’s speech at the end of the session there was the best in the whole debate.

    148. mike d says:

      Bob mack 3.39pm exactly,i don’t think there is another country in the world where opposition mp’s denigrate and run down their own country so much. What is it with the self loathing?.

    149. Valerie says:

      Had every intention of trying to stick with Holyrood debate but Sarwar was making me boak, Alex Rowley had me reaching for a razor blade.

      I’m watching a film now about aliens on Netflix. Good, honest entertainment.

    150. manandboy says:

      Alex Rowley LAB, said in Holyrood today, that he knew that the majority of Scots did not want another Referendum because the opinion polls said so.

      My budgie is cleverer than Alex Rowley – by some distance.

      More on the budgie later.

    151. jfngw says:

      Neil Findlay, a true socialist, committed to ensuring WM Tory rule for the foreseeable future. Is he Labours ‘top’ socialist?

    152. Free Scotland says:

      Hang on, if we cost the UK treasury £1,638 per person per year, that’s a heckuva lotta money. Why are they so desperate to keep us? Shouldn’t they be telling all the UKIP-Tories that they’d like to see us gone so that all that lovely lolly could be spent on the NHS in England. They could even advertise the idea on the side of a big red bus.

    153. Sandy says:

      To ROBBO @ 11.15.
      The reactions your comment received would appear to epitomise the ignorance & low-life standing of many who abuse the digital media. The time has to come when these “posters” are brought to heel. After all, breach of the peace is a criminal offence. The internet is a public domain. These people are the dregs of society, generally cowards &, if I had my way, be removed from the environs of the decent. They should be treated as outcasts & for the safety of the general public, be removed to an appropriate secure place.Their whole outlook is bigoted & anti-social. And these people are allowed to vote! Can you imagine how society would be if they had their way. ISIS comes to mind.

    154. North chiel says:

      Agree entirely with ” Manandboy” about “TM having a voice in the Scottish parliament” . The fact is that if Holyrood was elected on the same basis as Westminster , the TM voice would be almost ” a whisper from a distant Westminster” . This constant carping about our FM not having a mandate
      should be in the context of TM only having a ( substantially less) mandate due to FPTP. If Westminster was tied to Holyrood’s PR system then TM would have a mandate for nothing.

    155. Robert Peffers says:

      I have to laugh at these loonies in the unionist parties, (all unionist parties), who constantly threep on about the divisiveness of the referendums as if it is only the fault of the SNP and Greens.

      Like any differences of opinion, all arguments or actual exchanges of blows are caused because there are at least two opposite opinions. Without that difference there would be no divisiveness.

      Yet these blithering idiots are so convinced only they are right and everyone else is wrong and their overwhelming feelings of complete entitlement are so strong they have the utterly idiotic hard neck to imagine only the actual democratically elected government of Scotland are the cause of the divisiveness in Scotland today.

      The truth is that as the people of Scotland elected the Scottish government on a manifesto promise to hold a referendum on any major change in the matters affecting independence then it is they, the Unionists, who now cause divisiveness.

      They are all, collectively the ones opposing not only the Scottish Government but the majority of the electorate that put them in power.

      You don’t have to be a lying congenital idiot to be in opposition at Holyrood – but it helps if you are.

    156. manandboy says:

      Just heard an MSP Con speak on parliament tv. No name was given onscreen, would be very helpful, but the gentleman spoke with a decidedly English Accent, and dressed in the style of so many tory mps. It could have been Westminster.

      But then that’s the plan isn’t it.

    157. Macart says:

      Brian Whittle should be utterly ashamed of himself. That was an appalling slur aimed at the FM.

      It was language more suited to the commons tbf. As for the PO? Pretty grim.

    158. jfngw says:

      Isn’t it good to be reminded by pretty much every unionist MSP what a failure of a country we are. Their message is we are happy to accept Scotland is mediocre, why can’t these nationalists not just get on board.

    159. Nana says:


      What did he say? I’ve not been watching the debate, rage is not good for me!

      What about the PO, was he po faced or what?

    160. Robert Graham says:

      Like many others I can’t be arsed listening to Union supporting MSPs most of them who have slithered in the back door at Hollyrood and have no right to be there, A Candidate who comes a distant Fifth ( Tomkins ) in an election has not earned the right to be occupying a seat reserved for a freely voted for MSP ,
      I doubt if any of the ranting Unionists can in any way add a voice of hope , a future that presents the Union as good, and a prospect for the people here to have a viable future ,The rehearsed pish condensed into soundbites for immediate use by our fair and evenhanded media, same Shit different day.
      In short seen it all before, their lies won’t have the same effect this time,

    161. Vestas says:

      @Valerie 5:42 pm :

      “I’m watching a film now about aliens on Netflix. Good, honest entertainment.”

      As was I and (most of) the aliens were more human than the Tory MSPs 🙂

      /me dons tinfoil hat & retires to kitchen to cook dinner…

    162. Don’t mention that Scotland is a nation in its own right.
      Get on your pins and SNP BAD like laldy, and add buzz words like , Education, Offensive Behaviour at footie, Armed Police eating a sandwich in a shopping mall, chewing gum splattered on pavements, the opening hours of public conveniences, and shriek #I hate Nicola Sturgeon’, big time.
      Whatever you do, don’t debate the motion. The 62% don’t count because the Yoons at Holyrood are paid placemats, there to deny Scottish nationhood, and as paid Fifth Columnists, take yet again the opportunity in a two day pointless debate upon which Willie Rennie insisted, to tell England, the Motherland, and the watching world that the SNP are Fucking Bad, and Scotland is too wee too poor too stupid and too cowed to even think of Self Determination.
      I have seldom witnessed such a concerted, abject, amateur performance from a bunch of failed councillor Yoons as this.
      WE are cancelling the Act of Union, and your behaviour today only consolidates our position.
      Your wee sinecure and £1200 a week is more important to you that Scotland and its citizens.Jackie Baillie has been waddling about in Holyrood since 1999. 18 years of doing nothing but rake in the dosh.Of course she’s not going to advocate change.
      Keep it up, ye bought and paid for Judases.
      I see BBC is mounting a put up job tonight.
      It is so very predictable.

    163. bugsbunny says:

      I have just seen Mike Rumbles MSP actually gloat over the delay in the opening of the New Forth Bridge. But as the reporter said, any delay’s will not be picked up by the Taxpayer unlike the Holyrood Parliament or the Edinburgh Tram Fiasco. Maybe someone should whisper in his ear what party was in coalition during those years in both Scotland and Lothians. What a Tosser.

    164. galamcennalath says:

      jfngw says:

      Isn’t it good to be reminded by pretty much every unionist MSP what a failure of a country we are.

      It’s impossible to have a low enough opinion of those politicians who behave like that.

      Being a Unionist and wanting London rule really isn’t an excuse for talking down your voters, neighbours, colleagues, all Scots. They cannot possibly believe that a hard Brexit UK is the best future Scotland could have, can they?

      In 2014 there were two possibly futures – Indy or a UK in Europe with quite possibly a Labour government at WM.

      Now, it’s Indy or hard right Tory madness.

      I smell shite and think for most of them it’s self interest.

    165. Hamish100 says:

      Once Scotland votes for a referendum. Davidson Dugdale and the other must get behind the First Minister of Scotland and ensure that the will of the Scots Parliament and its people are paramount.

      What do you think? Do you think they will?

    166. G H Graham says:

      Source: K**** H***e

      Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

      Cos Ken Dodd & Bobby Davro were unavailable.

    167. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Graham @ 18:14

      most of them who have slithered in the back door at Hollyrood and have no right to be there

      There you go again. Just what do you mean by “no right”, pray? There was a time not so long ago when most of the SNP MSP’s were elected that way. Had they “no right” to be there then?

      I mean, really. It may be inconvenient that there are idiots who vote for MSPs you don’t like, but that’s democracy, lumps and all.

      What’s your alternative, eh? Do you have one, besides just excluding everyone you don’t approve of?

      Really, when you have a clue, maybe then you might come up with something more convincing than a cheap populist throwaway line.

    168. MorvenM says:

      Andrew Gordon

      This site is very good with advice for cancelling TV licence and suggesting alternative viewing:

      Cancelled mine in April 2014 and have never looked back. Have had one reminder from BBC to renew online declaration (which I did) and nobody’s ever bothered me.

    169. Phronesis says:

      It’s difficult to know where the Scottish Labour/ Tory/Libdem combo would want Scotland to be in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. An eminent psychologist in his day he described several levels of hierarchical needs in order to achieve happiness and well- being.

      Could it be that the cheerleaders of UKOK want Scotland to forever remain at the bottom just surviving & functioning at Maslow’s basic level ‘physiological’ breathing,food,water ,etc ensuring that Scotland continues on its road to serfdom- as a miserable,low trust, greatly unequal society.The majority of the population just existing to serve the needs of a chosen few (the elite that WM serves).
      Or would they prefer that Scotland reaches the lofty heights of Maslows model ‘self -actualisation’ – morality,creativity, spontaneity,problem solving acquiring self-esteem,confidence and achievement on the way to realise your potential and be all that you can be

      Because to get to that level people require 3 things to make them happy (and the recent International Day of Happiness league table shows that the UK is not a particularly happy place) -mastery, purpose and autonomy. If you vote as a country to remain in the EU and are denied all opportunity to acknowledge that democratic mandate then you can never be autonomous and of equal concern is that your political representatives are colluding with a process that is denying democracy.

    170. stewartb says:

      Re- Willie Rennie’s speech in Parliament today: I listened to it twice (the sacrifices one makes for the cause) and I’m pretty certain towards the end he said, in terms, that federalism and a written constitution for the UK are on the way! Really?

      If I heard aright, this is a blatant attempt to deceive the Scottish people.

    171. Nana says:


      I just knew I shouldn’t have asked. These despicable clowns would try the patience of a saint.

      I believe there’s to be another day of this goon show, oh mercy.

    172. manandboy says:

      Everyone knows by now that Cameron & his Government and Party, had no plan whatsoever going into EU Ref16. We also know now that very little planning has been done since, and further, there is no plan for life after a breakdown in negotiations and a sudden cessation.
      Contrast with Westminster’s never ending intrusion into Scotland’s independence aspirations and the propaganda war being waged daily by Westminster.
      No one can say the British government is without a plan for Scotland.

      The reasons for this cannot be difficult to work out. Scotland is more important to England than the EU. What other conclusion would anyone come to? The UK Government is blasé about leaving the EU, but is going to extraordinary lengths to keep Scotland from regaining Independence. Therefore, we MUST NOT UNDERESTIMATE Westminster’s determination to scupper ScotRef.

      England needs what Scotland has, and that will never change.

      Scotland doesn’t grow tobacco, olives or bananas, nor oranges and limes and lemons. But we have virtually everything else starting with three of the most important things, food, water and limitless energy supplies. Is it any wonder The British Establishment chooses Scotland over the EU.

      England has a plan. It’s just not the one the Media go on about.

    173. ScottishPsyche says:

      Pretty poor set of arguments today from the Yoons.

      The debate just now on BBC One is showing that many people have assumptions about the EU that are based no doubt on misinformation circulated by the BBC and others.

      I liked how Mike Russell and Stuart Stevenson today tried to show that things are always flexible and I don’t think Fiona Hyslop is getting that over.

      Tompkins getting heckled!

    174. Thepnr says:

      It’s OK for us, we live and breath this stuff 24 hours a day and everyday of the week. Most don’t though and we know that too. Our opponents, the loud ones at least also live this everyday.

      Must admit I’m feeling a bit tired of it all, it is wearing but know what when the likes of Sky News come our with this crap it raises the hairs on the back of my neck and I just want to get ripped in about them.

      These liars will not win, we can beat their lies. The lies are so pathetic that they are laughable so let’s all just laugh at Sky news. We will have to do this on the streets, convert people to Independence by talking to them, pointing them to pro-idy websites. I don’t think we have any other choice.

      Their Lies v Our Truth. Convince sceptics of the lies then we win.

    175. James Barr Gardner says:

      IndyRef1 was “Hope over Fear” things have now changed, Nicola has shown us the way, we are no feart,wha daur meddle wi us. It’s a new era now and the yoons are absolutely furious because they know their untruths and falsehoods are completely busted!

      The yoons that I have known for years are now sending school boy jokes about Nicola, that’s about their level but this could easily escalate to dangerous levels as it has in England. I replied with lists of Scottish Government achievements; their reply is to block any idea of discussion/debate, they are not very happy these brexiteers, what goes around comes around.

      IndyNewRef will be “Hope over Hate” it will get very bitter but the Yes Campaign will prevail due to more activists,campaigners,supporters,voters,money most of all IndyYes has more brains and more heart.

      Roll on Thursday the 4th of May, Vote these multi-coloured tories out!
      Theresa May said “now its not the time”. Well ! Now’s the Day and Now’s the Hour and Scotland will will pick the Time and Place!

    176. Effijy says:

      If England suggest that they are subsidising Scotland, I say stop it now, stop it tomorrow, stop it this week.

      Simply give Scotland full control of all its finances and open Westminster’s books that we might check their sums and
      our money.

      Do not give Scotland anything other than it’s Freedom!

      For anyone keen to keep Westminster’s Boot on Scotland’s throat, just have a look at how they have murdered and raped most of their many historical colonies.

      Martin McGuinness could be considered a Choir Boy when measured against Westminster.

      The UK the ultimate Terrorist!

    177. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 21 March, 2017 at 4:24 pm:

      ” … I myself have difficulty recognising this fear and dread but maybe I’m wrong maybe it’s the word itself.”

      Naw! Canna be the word itself Dr Jim. Even if it was we could just hold a, “Plebiscite”, instead.

      There you go. Nicola can just announce tomorrow that in view of the abject fear the Unionists have of a Scottish referendum she will not hold a Scottish Referendum to frighten the poor wee things but instead she can then state the question that will be put the people of Scotland in the “Scottish Plebiscite”.

    178. yesindyref2 says:

      I see Mr Average is frothing away on twitter. He’s even referring to a blog as a “take-down of GERS denier Murphy”, a blog which has this memorable refutation:

      Because we are using data provided and calculated by the Scottish Government with a high degree of confidence.

      “provided”. No it’s not, much is provided by the Treasury.

      Who’s “Neil Lovatt”?

    179. Arthur Martin says:

      I just cancelled my Sky subscription and Goddammit it felt good. 31 day notice period to see out then the direct debit will be getting cancelled.
      Gave my reasons for leaving as this bollocks poll by Sky Data and their heavily biased reporting of the Scottish Independence Referendum.
      The TV license fee will be getting cancelled shortly after I do a bit of research on watching catch up TV, and the time spent being couch potatoes is going to be put to better use doing more rewarding endeavours.
      I’ve had enough of paying for their stinking propaganda to be piped into my home and it feels bloody good.

    180. Dorothy Devine says:

      You are all quite wonderful watching and listening to the horse shit emanating from the Lib/Lab/Con party in Holyrood.

      And the media continues in its perversity , lauding the idiotic loudmouths allowing the lowest IQ’s to denigrate and sneer ,encouraged so to do by their masters in Westminster with never a challenge from the so called journalists.

      As for Sky, BBBC and ITV – bloody laughable , if it wasn’t so serious for Scotland’s future.

      I see Mike Rumbles mentioned in dispatches – what a twit to relish the possibility of the new crossing not opening in time. I hope the weather behaves so that the bridge is completed and the bugger can be reminded of his shitty wee statement.

      Who the hell votes for folk that obviously don’t like their own country and are quite prepared to continue being treated as nuisance value by Westminster while it assets strips. – that is not a question to which I require an answer.

    181. Thepnr says:

      @Arthur Martin

      Yes, it feels good eh! Never missed it and feel a lot better since.

      Well done you 🙂

    182. Ann says:

      To be fair to Fiona,Glen Campbell was not giving her time to get anything out. He continued to interrupt her.
      If I was his mum I would be giving him a slap for being so ignorant.
      Liked the young lassie that put him in his place re europe.

    183. Brian McHugh says:

      Anyone that says there is no desire for a 2nd Indy Ref, obviously didn’t have the absolute ball I had in the last one. So many amazing memories… I can’t wait to do it all again. 😀

    184. yesindyref2 says:

      Just in case the guy realises he’s embarrassed himself and Average for endorsing it and decides to take his own “article” down, here it is archived:

      I do love humour, though this is more like humus – good result of composting. Ooh arr I loik it well rotted 🙂

    185. ScottieDog says:

      Noticed the euro convergence bollocks is doing the rounds again.
      This is probably worth a read to dispel the myths…

    186. Robert Graham says:

      38 degrees- and them urging people to e/mail their Msp to get involved in the Independence debate at Hollyrood, and promoting no particular point of view , are they f/kn serious ? , I really don’t get the drift as if Msps have missed what’s going on today. Suspicious you bet it is.

    187. geeo says:

      My new standard response to unionists who slaver the tired old “polls show no appetite” pish.

      And again……

      Opinion polls are not political mandates, ELECTION results are.

    188. caz-m says:

      Sky News shamelessly runs Scotland into the ground.

      Any reports regarding Scotland from Sky News are straight out of the UKIP handbook on how to slaughter the Scots.

      And that wee bastard James Mathews is the main protagonist. I have had a few run ins with him at George Sq Rallies. Nasty wee shit.

      That Sky Poll reminds me of a “Straw Poll” Mathews ran before IndyRef1 in a Womens Conservative Bowling Club in Edinburgh.

      And surprise surprise, the NO Voters won the Poll by about 60% to 40%.

      If you ever meet that wee bastard Mathews, then please give him a good boot in the chuckies.

      It would be very much appreciated.

    189. ScottieDog says:

      Yep Murphy was trying to sum up the basics of modern money to mr average. Trying to get tories to understand that currency issuIng governments actually have to spend before they can tax starts their heads spinning. It just doesn’t compute.

    190. ScottieDog says:

      So the guy Lovatt hasn’t heard of Lex Monetae…

    191. Macart says:

      I’ll tell you what this ‘debate’ has achieved so far as I am concerned. It has spectacularly managed to remove any remaining willingness to listen I may have had.

      I’ve seen and heard so much naked enmity, lack of respect and dishonesty on display simply from what’s been on display so far from the establishment parties that enough is pretty much enough.

      They will not respect the right of the Scottish people to choose their own path be it independence or continued union. They are afraid to give that choice to the Scottish electorate, so much is self evident and it’s a shame they can carry. They have neither the courage of their own convictions, nor confidence in the Scottish electorate they ‘claim’ to serve.

      Who knew?

      For casual readers, I would say this. Vote yes or no in any upcoming referendum as you like, but ALWAYS remember who believed in your right to choose and had the courage to give you that choice to make.

    192. yesindyref2 says:

      There was an interesting link on Murphy’s blog about Ireland which implemented the new EU standard ESA2010 and got a jump of 27% in their GDP. Well, which figure is accurate? Neither of course, is the answer. I think Average’s head would explode.

    193. Cadogan Enright says:

      Pm today
      See mine of 3.22

    194. yesindyref2 says:

      Of course, if you recalculate your GDP at 127% of what it was, your deficit of 9.5% as a percentage of GDP suddenly drops to 7.5% which can be kind of handy if you’re borrowing money or illustrating an economy 🙂

    195. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks, Nana, for the link to Robert Menasse at the Treaty of Rome EU event @2.02.

      Apart from his plea for help for Scotland, his speech was noticeable for his sustained attack on the nationalisms which threaten the EU and a return to wars in Europe. Of course, he was meaning things like the Little Englandism of Brexit and not Scotland’s legitimate desire to remain in the EU, as the context of his speech made clear.

      Other European countries understand the difference too: for example, to the French, the SNP is un parti indépendantiste, never a nationalist party, which has nasty associations for them.

      This distinction seems quite beyond the rotten media we have in the UK, of course.

    196. Gary45% says:

      Why do people on WoS pay for SKY Shyster TV? (It beats me)
      On a light hearted note, I had a conversation with a neighbour today and he was talking about his monthly electricity bills, the usual white goods, TV etc, and then I got thinking. I take it a SKY media box has to be on 24/7 or you miss the shite they tell you that you have to watch or you are a nobody if you miss it! which eats electricity 24/7,and if you do switch it off from the mains, do they charge you for reconnection? Murdoch will have vast shares in Electricity Suppliers, its a win, win for the wrinkly Shyster.
      He has never had a bean from me, and never will.

    197. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah right, neither had I 🙂

      Something Murphy was on about in his blog was “data” and Average really didn’t get a grasp of that at all. To Average clearly data is data and that’s that, estimate it, stick confidence intervals around it, and hey, it’s the ark of the covenanet.

      I was lucky enough to work with data – even “big” data – in a previous life, and data is what you want to make of it, within limits and they’re not small limits either. So for instance if a company wants to appear healthy it manipulates its quarterly data and shows the shareholders “hey, we’re increasing your dividends”. Or it shows just a small profit or loss and cuts them. Or it needs to lay off a load of people, close plants and therefore shows a big loss to convince everyone it’s needed. Countries could do the same to encourage austerity or do a lot more borrowing – not saying they do mind 🙂

    198. Clootie says:

      Several journals in the Oil & Gas sector forecasting production fall and demand rise. See linked article at bottom. Now would that influence Whitehall thinking 🙂

      Meanwhile, many U.S. shale producers, which cut into OPEC’s market share, have been driven out of business. More than 100 North American oil and gas companies have filed for bankruptcy. Their production isn’t coming back anytime soon.
      Having spent two years flooding the market with crude, OPEC is finally showing signs of fatigue. The group, led by top oil producer Saudi Arabia, has agreed to cut production for the first time since 2008. And Russia, the largest non-OPEC producer, has expressed a willingness to coordinate cuts of its own.
      Indeed, every major oil producer in the world has finally agreed that production is too high and prices too low.

      At the same time, demand is on track grow by more than 1 million barrels per day.
      The result: oil prices are set to rise in 2017.

      Note forecast in link article below from now to 2040 ( $130 to $200+)

    199. Fred says:

      And the Slab abstainers tomorrow will be?

    200. jfngw says:

      Not overly impressed with the BBC ‘debate’, seemed more like a grilling by the presenter of the SG position and what were the answers to everything. Meanwhile the Brexit side was let off with just making the case for negotiation, no need for detail there.

      Is Mr Tompkins the new Brown, a vow of new powers, to be decided once we are out.

    201. yesindyref2 says:

      In this case the Labour abstainers will be the ones doing the right, and sensible thing. I doubt there’ll be many of them!

    202. harry mcaye says:

      caz – If I remember that Women’s Conservative Bowling one correctly, was it not well over 70% No? He knew where to go to get a result like that. Don’t recall him going to a working men’s club in Glasgow or Dundee. I’m sure he did another one in Edinburgh, was it some sort of over 60s dance, where again I think it was well over 70% No.

      He is a piece of work and no mistake.

    203. Robert Peffers says:

      @Blair.Paterson says: 21 March, 2017 at 4:56 pm:

      ” … I mean it is like. Standing outside Ibrox at a rangers home game and asking do you like the pope and then claim a 100per cent no vote”

      Well actually the truth is a wee bit simpler than that.

      YouGov not only have a signed up crowd of people who they pay for filling in their specially worded, pre-biased, questionnaires but YouGov are also well equipped with computers and programmers.

      YouGov are a company that are well versed in the use of office software and computers and will quite obviously have more than a few such machines to work with.

      So they setup a few random questionnaires to send out to their signed up members. They analyse the answers and store the results in their database. After a few such fake questionnaires they feed the resultant info into their spreadsheet and run an algorithm to categorise the answers the pollsters have made.

      This database is thus always being added to and becomes more accurate as time goes by. They thus know exactly who to poll to get whatever result any particular customer wants to achieve. It is a task computers running just such standard office software were designed to do.

      Windows Office was made for just such routine tasks. They then only need to feed in the required answer – run the spreadsheet with the setup algorithm and send the resultant questionnaire to the ones the program indicates will answer any particular question as required.

      It ain’t rocket science – it’s computer science.

      The point about these so called random polls is that these days no one does a random poll. Just for starters many younger people do not have a landline to be polled by random phone calls. Many others have fibre lines just for such uses as YouTube, Netflix and so on.

      The people most likely to still have land line phones are the older people who also tend to be unionists party members, supporters and actual elected people. They, far as I know, don’t do random mobile phone surveys.

      Way back in the 1970s I was part of a team of trade Union reps doing a so called, “Random Survey”, in regard to Thatcher’s proposed privatisation of Rosyth Dockyard.

      The survey company guy who was running the survey for the amalgamated Trade Union group from the Dockyard workers held a class to teach us how to select the people picked, “At Random”, around the specially chosen towns and areas that would yield the results we wanted and that was before there were the same sophistication of polls as there is now.

      So just how do you get a really random result these days? Not by land-line phone anymore. Not by mobile phone and those on the internet are likely to be by self selection and newspaper surveys are being done by already biased readerships. As are the Broadcaster run polls. Would anyone seriously believe a political poll run by Radio Jockland?

      Opinion Polls have always been scams but they are little more than jokes these days and they are no longer random and the first rule of opinion polls is they must be random.

    204. call me dave says:


      27 NO to YES tweets on WoS in last 60 mins if they’re all true.

      I might give the debate a partial miss in the early afternoon and
      tune in later in the day. Fun though init! 🙂

    205. jfngw says:

      Mr Tompkins claims he is a democrat and supports the wishes of the British people. He seems to forget he is a MSP not a MP and every area in Scotland voted remain. If he is a democrat in the Scottish Parliament he surely should represent the wishes of the Scottish electorate, or is he a fake democrat?

    206. Croompenstein says:

      Sigh.. email from that loonball Kez, so many holes so little time

      Dear Friend

      Today I set out why Scottish Labour will vote against the SNP’s plan for another divisive referendum on leaving the UK. Scotland is divided enough – our country cannot afford further division.

      The will of the Scottish people is clear. In 2014 more than 2million people in Scotland voted to remain in the UK. That’s the biggest mandate in Scotland’s history. It’s time for Nicola Sturgeon to respect the will of the Scottish people and focus on delivering schools and hospitals fit for the 21st century, rather than dragging us back to the arguments of the past.

      Labour is opposed to another referendum. But if the SNP forces us into another constitutional battle, we will campaign with everything we have for Scotland to remain in the UK. I believe in the United Kingdom not as a symbol of past glories or purest ideology – but as a living, breathing union of nations that delivers for the people of Scotland. It secures our public finances and protects the public services that we all value.

      At a time when so much of the world is ravaged by division, and when the trend in too many places is separation, I value the fact that our four nations come together to share sovereignty and resources.

      The reality that the Nationalists refuse to acknowledge in public, but admit to in private, is that leaving the UK would mean an extra £15billion worth of cuts to our public services. That would devastate our schools and hospitals, and make it even more difficult to deliver a fairer nation. Labour will never sign up to that.

      You can read my speech in the Scottish Parliament here or watch a clip below:

      I need your help to oppose Nicola Sturgeon’s referendum. If you agree that together we’re stronger by remaining in the UK, sign up to our pledge at and please consider donating to the fight.

      Best wishes


      Kezia Dugdale
      Scottish Labour Leader

    207. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andrew Gordon says: 21 March, 2017 at 5:03 pm:

      “Can anyone help re cancelling TV licence?”

      Here’s a youtube clip, Andrew.

    208. JET Jockey says:

      Somebody must have an ill will at Mike Rumbles. Leaflets are popping in to mail boxes all over West Aberdeenshire, describing him as the most useless msp there has ever been and advising constituents not to trust him , he obviously has gone up someones nose, Live and learn Mr Rumbles the hard way.

    209. jfngw says:


      Stopped after the first paragraph as the 1975 EU ref and the 2016 EU ref in Scotland gave bigger mandates 58% & 62% compared to 55% for ind ref. Facts and the labour party, an alien concept.

    210. Feel_loon says:

      If following the debate today with the usual suspects trotting out the usual garbage wasn’t bad enough I only came home to find an election leaflet from Wullie Young telling me what a wonderful job he’s making of Aberdeen.

      Surely we get rid of him as an added bonus on the road to Indy

    211. yesindyref2 says:

      From Rev’s retweeter:

      “Oliver Mundell’s public speaking makes you wish his dad was a multi-millionaire and he was living a life of leisure.”

      Now THAT’s the way of putting it positively 🙂

    212. Rock says:

      “In our most recent Panelbase poll, Sky News came dead bottom of a list of 20 media outlets when respondents were asked about perceived pro-independence leanings”

      Why was the “pro-independence” The National excluded from the list of 20 media outlets?

    213. AndyH says:

      Cheer up!

      Not long to go until we can give the Yoons a good hiding at the council elections.

    214. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 21 March, 2017 at 3:22 pm:

      ” … Labour and LibDems somehow maintain a pretence to be more wholesome and caring. The reality is, their tin cans have contain much the same as the Tories.”

      Ah! galamcennalath, I see you missed the small print bit on the very bottom of the Labour and LibDem tin’s label.

      It reads, “Warning – Contents may contain Nuts”,

    215. caz-m says:

      harry mcaye 8.28pm

      “If I remember that Women’s Conservative Bowling one correctly, was it not well over 70% No?”

      You are probably right harry.

      The point being that James Mathews is to Sky News what Glen Campbell is to BBC Scotland.

    216. caz-m says:

      Gary45% 8.05pm

      “Why do people on WoS pay for SKY Shyster TV?”

      I haven’t paid for Sky TV for years.

      Go onto ebay and type in “OpenBox” or “SkyBox”. The set top boxes cost about £40 and a years connection is about £30.

      That gets you ALL the channels.

      And I don’t pay the BBC or Jackie Burd’s mortgage either.

      Also stopped paying BT for their landline.

    217. Wgoodf says:

      I actually did this poll, it was emailed to me.
      The question was if you thought they were doing a good job, not if you thought them popular or as a preference.
      Corbyn clearly is doing a bad job, and Ruth is clearly doing a good job. I don’t have to agree with them, but to most folks ‘good job’ can be taken to mean successful or effective.
      I scored both JC and Ruth that way.

    218. AnTeallach says:

      OT Pro-EU rally Sat 25th March 1pm Edinburgh. Waterloo Place to Holyrood Speakers include Tommy Shepherd,Joanna Cherry, Ross Greer

    219. Ken500 says:

      In Aberdeen City, a Green (600votes) who had campaigned vigously to stop the essential By Pass road. was voted in by fellow supporters who had campaigned to stop the AWPR. Years of hassle and chaos. When the traffic was bad, people could not get to work. I.e. They lost hours work because they could not get to their destination. After waiting in horrific traffic for hours sprewing out emission. They just had to return home. The congestion was horrendous all the time.

      The Unionists had not built the necessary road structure for thirty years. While the equivalent of £Billions of Oil revenues were spent in London SE. The small group of Green campaigners wasted £Millions of Public money. The years of delays forced the road price up condiderable. £Millions. Money totally wasted which could have been better spent on essential services, and emission could have be lowered if the road had been built instead of miles of tail backs and traffic chaos.

      The Green was elected in the last Council elections. The Green went in coalition with the Unionist group and became W. Young deputy fior power and remuneration. Then preceded to support W, Young with the one necessary casting vote needed to keep the unionists in power. W, Young then proceeded to build a grotesque monstrosity ruining the City Centre, Costing £Millions getting the City in £Billion debt. Totally against the wishes of the majority. Wasted and borrowed public money like there was no tomorrow. A £80Million Gift to predestrianise and improve the City City Centre, supported by a majority was refused. The City Centre is in total decline because of lack of funding being used to improve it.

      Essential services were cut. Cuts to additional needs support, education, social care etc. People struggling. While £100Millions was wasted on the monstrosity in the City, against the majority wishes. £Millions were wasted on illegal non mandated projects. Complains were made incessantly to the regulatory authorities while people protested in the street against the Council’s ruling group’s actions.

      This all was enabled by the Green colluding with the Unionists against Green policies. I.e. Lower emission, pedestrianisation of Citues and open spaces for leisure purposes. Lower healthier emission rates. Now the highest and unhealthiest in the UK. If the Greens had voted instead with the SNP coaltion. None of this would have happened.

      The City would have been improved and pedestrianised by the Gift, in line with the majority wishes. Lower emissions and not £100Million spent on the grotesque monstrosity. Essential services and education could have improved and maintain instead of being cut. The City would not be in massive borrowered debt.

      The same scenario had happened in a neighbouring Council areas. Preventing the expansion of the Airport for International flight for tourism etc. To lower emissions by more direct flights. Same scenario with the AWPR. £Millions of public money wasted on protest campaigners. .Public money wasted and essential services cuts. Green Protests against a Golf Development and many lies told and misrepresented.

      The Development supported by the majority, businesses and all political Parties and the Scottish Gov. (Including Unionists). The one ‘Green’ elected by an extremely low percentage of the electorate. Resulting in £Millions unnecessarily wasted. Careful. Caution is necessary.

    220. heedtracker says:

      If you’re in Shetland right now, and need a break from yoon culture going UKOK nuts at you BBC style, go outside!

    221. scottieDog says:

      Thanks for that
      Wish I was up in Shetland!

    222. Robert Peffers says:

      @mike d says: 21 March, 2017 at 5:40 pm:

      “… i don’t think there is another country in the world where opposition mp’s denigrate and run down their own country so much. What is it with the self loathing?.”

      I think you may be labouring under a great misapprehension there, Mike d.

      There really is no big secret either for it has all been out in the open for centuries.

      The Treaty of Union is factually a bipartite agreement between only two kingdoms and the resultant union is thus a union of two kingdoms. It actually says so in the title it first gave to itself, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain”. There was no mention of countries in the entire document and neither were countries mentioned in the only two individual, “ACTS OF UNION”.

      However, Westminster has always thought that what the treaty of union did was take over the Kingdom of Scotland as just another English dominion. To them the treaty made it all just one united country and it was all England.

      So there is the reason – those unionist MPs, MSPs and even councillors in Scotland thing their country is The United Kingdom and we are all part of the same country.

      If you do not believe me consider what Fluffy Mundell said on national tv.”“The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and changed the name of the Kingdom of England to the United Kingdom”.

      Now consider the present set-up of Westminster. There is no elected as such parliament of England so Westminster is the de facto parliament of England. It funds only England directly as the United Kingdom and it legislates for England as the United Kingdom and it uses only English law to do so. It then decides the level of funding it will allow the other countries to get and note the oft repeated claims that they subsidise Scotland with English taxpayer’s money.

      Even while the tax raised in the other three countries goes directly into the UK treasury they claim it is English taxpayer’s money, Then they devolved useless English powers to the three other countries and use EVEL to prevent them from interfering in England’s business.

      They actually are running the UK as England with Wales Ireland and Scotland as England ruled dominions.

    223. scottieDog says:

      Regards Ireland gdp jump. I think that was a bit of a paper exercise.
      One of the big American pharmaceutical companies relocated (for tax purposes) their brass plate to Dublin. Doesn’t really do anything for the real economy but looks good in the stats.

      The main thing with gers is that if you are going to run an economy using a foreign currency (euro or pound for example) then gers or something along those lines is probably quite relevant leaving out of course the fact that you now have entire sovereignty over decisions. Still you are really relying on taxation and exports to finance the economy as borrowing can become expensive.

      Moving to a new currency really takes gers out the equation. You now have the real unlimited power to move resources in your own country. Extrapolating gers into this scenario is nonsensical which murphy alluded to.

      ‘Lex monetae’ is recognised international law which enables a country like greece for example should it leave the euro (and scotland if we bizarrely decide to take share of £ debt) to settle international debts in its own chosen currency. This is NOT a default.

      Argentina actually redenominted it’s dollar debt into pesos after not being able to sustain it’s dollar peg in the 90s. The effect was transformative.

    224. Gary45% says:

      Nice one, We are still stuck with the BT landline, (for the moment.)
      I don’t know what it is but I get a real sense of satisfaction knowing I don’t pay Sneering Burds wages.
      These boxes you refer to, is it live broadcasting or on demand? as me and the missus are worried about “keeping it legal.”

    225. heedtracker says:

      scottieDog says:
      21 March, 2017 at 10:05 pm

      I know. What a place to live! just checked again and it seems to be getting brighter. Great camera as you can see constellations like the Pleiades too.

    226. caz-m says:

      Gary45% 11.09pm

      They are just like any set top box with live TV. try ebay. the usually have a contact number.

      You need a Sky cable and an Internet ethernet cable.

      you even get the boxing Box Office channels. All sky sports and movies and loads more.

    227. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ann @ 19:39, jfngw @ 20:16,

      I watched a part of that programme on catchup and have regretted it ever since. The format was weary with all the familiar hoary old faults we remember so well. For the first time I understood why so many people are reluctant to have a new referendum. It’s not the politics, which are even more crucial than ever, it’s the absolutely dire presentation of it on the TV.

      What particularly incensed me on this occasion was Glen Campbell’s staringly obvious one-sidedness, almost fawning like Uriah Heep over Prof Two Jobs’ every word, while on the other hand continually talking over and harassing Fiona Hyslop.

      I don’t know if it was “merely” a case of “mansplaining”, with the presenter feeling that he could talk over a “mere woman”, while having to defer to a higher-status male, or if it was just plain anti-independence bias showing through, but whatever it was, it was utterly unprofessional and thoroughly bad manners.

      It annoyed me so much that it has taken me until now to calm down enough to come back online again. I really feel like sending yet another (=sigh=) complaint to the BBC, for all the good it will do.

      But it was certainly further encouragement to turn up at PQ to register my disgust on Sunday.

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