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Wings Over Scotland

Stitched up like kippers

Posted on March 20, 2017 by

Panelbase have released data tables for their recent Sunday Times poll. And wow.

That’s quite something.

Among people who voted No in 2014, a thumping 48% now intend to vote for the Tories in a general election, compared to just 22% voting Labour.

Among the C2DE demographic – essentially the working class – the Tories lead Labour by 22% to 16%. Just one in six of the Scottish working class would now vote Labour, having supported them unquestioningly for half a century.

(And it’s not like the working class have gone right-wing, because C2DE Tory support is still at barely over a fifth and UKIP are nowhere. But with a stratospheric 53% now backing the SNP, that still leaves the Tories ahead of the one-time People’s Party.)

So that strategy went well, guys. Keep it up a bit longer, why don’t you?

Someone’s definitely Better Together with you.

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  1. 20 03 17 17:56

    Stitched up like kippers | speymouth

260 to “Stitched up like kippers”

  1. Paul Miller says:

    Duncys pure greeting that the Greens won’t vote against Indy bill. What a wee shame.

  2. Brian Powell says:

    They’re going to need a bigger galaxy to hold all that stupid.

  3. Cuilean says:

    I really want kippers rolled in oatmeal for my tea now, remember, the kind they used to sell in Lewis’s foodhall when they were still on Sauchiehall Street. The heartburn will kill me though. Curse you, tories!

  4. Morag says:

    It wouldn’t really matter if the Greens simply abstained from the new indyref bill, although obviously it would be better to have them onside so that some of the jibes about “the SNP’s referendum” and “one party state” can be deflected.

    But from the point of view of the Greens themselves, they have to know that they’ll be punished by their pro-independence voters if they don’t step up and vote in favour. I think they know which side their bread is buttered on.

  5. Dan Huil says:

    There are of course many Labour supporters in Scotland who support independence. Sadly for them their so-called leaders are hell-bent on destroying the Labour party before it can recover in an independent Scotland.

    These red-tory leaders are a disgrace to a once-great party and a disgrace to Scotland.

  6. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    I tried to mention a similar likely consequence in a sympathetic way to a Labour canvasser who came by the door the other day delivering leaflets. But she wasn’t interested, at least judging by her reaction to me.

    Just like all the other past times, it’s going to be soor faces after the results come in, and one more step on the road to oblivion.

    (Those voting intentions, BTW, make the hopes of radical lefties such as RISE in motivating the masses for their cause look increasingly forlorn.)

  7. jimnarlene says:

    Labour, Libdems and the Tories are all now UKIP, they all support leaving the EU, to some extent. And they’ll all deny Scotland it’s freedom, given half the chance.

  8. Marcia says:

    I doubt if the Greens will abstain on Wednesday as 3 of them were quite heavily involved with the Yes campaign.

    Are votes going to be based on Constitutional lines instead of class lines that have dominated politics for so long? SNP leading in both demographic groupings.

  9. Capella says:

    How lucky that we have a left of centre, European style, social democrat party in Scotland that voters can support. Normal, you might say.
    Hope the SNP and Greens sweep the LA elections and provide a solid base for the Referendum.

  10. heedtracker says:

    Tragic really but then you only have to go online to see SLab charmers sneering, “you’re all just blood and soil nationalists,” at the people who wont for them anymore.

  11. Marie Clark says:

    Just goes to show that there really is no point to SLAB, not may folk, or not enough folk, care anymore. Since they all pursue the Tory policies, they’d be as well forming one unionist party and be done with it.

    They won’t be needed in an independent Scotland, new parties will be needed and I hope that there is absolutely no room for these useless hingers on in the forward looking country that we want to build.

  12. Hamish100 says:

    Of all the labour MSP’s is there not one, just one….. ( sorry braveheart mode) who would vote yes to allow the people of Scotland a say in their future? Whether they agree with the outcome or not.

    Even selfishly do they not understand by voting No, their own future (by aligning with Tory UKIP) is hanging by the shoogliest of pegs.

  13. David Mills says:

    Myopia, in the Labour party

  14. Martin says:

    The yoon element of Labour support who stuck with BT now see no point in Labour as Ruth does it better (I don’t like her and she is a liar, but she DOES do unionism better than Kez).

    The working class see no solidarity with Labour as they now view £1m houses as something an “average” family can afford. The non existent but oft trotted out “squeezed middle” prefer the Tories for their interests (obviously).

    Labour have majestically captured the gap in the market for the “representing nobody” party and lost everything in the chase. A masterstroke from the party of dunces.

  15. Sovereign Scot says:

    With this track record I’m surprised the SNP is not at 60% + read it and weep yoons.?
    Lang time lurker here btw

    Record funding for Scotland’s NHS, with the overall health budget at £13 billion in 2016 – over £3.3 billion more than when the SNP first took office.
    ?Free, high quality childcare is increased to 16 hours a week for all 3 and 4 year olds – up from 12.5 hours in 2007, extended to 2 year olds from low income households too.
    ?Employment at its highest ever level. Latest figures, 2,636,000 people in work.
    ?Pupils are achieving more than ever with a reformed curriculum, record exam passes and 93% of school leavers now going on to work, training or education.
    ?Council Tax frozen saving the average Band D household £1,550 by April 2017.
    ?1.3 million older and disabled people benefit from free public transport through the National Concessionary Bus Travel Scheme – now extended to help disabled veterans.
    ?Target to build 30,000 affordable homes exceeded, with an investment of £1.7 billion.
    ?Free tuition maintained, saving students up to £27,000 compared to England.
    ?Jobs and businesses protected from recession by cutting business rates for almost 100,000 small and medium-sized businesses.
    ?78,000 elderly benefit from access to a wide range of personal care without charge.
    ?Recorded crime in Scotland has reached its lowest level in 41 years.
    ?Free prescriptions protected, saving people with chronic conditions over £100 a year.
    ?Road Equivalent Tariff rolled out to all ferry routes in the Clyde and Hebrides, cutting fares by around 40%.
    ?178,000 low income households helped to buy essentials such as nappies, food and cookers through our Scottish Welfare Fund since it was established in 2013.
    ?By keeping Scottish Water in public hands customers pay less for a better service – charges for the average household bill are £39 lower than in England and Wales.

    A healthier Scotland
    ?Free prescriptions for all. (In England you pay £8.40 per item.)
    ?The number of nurses, doctors and dentists working in Scotland’s NHS increased.
    ?NHS staffing is at record levels, up more than 11,500 under the current government.
    ?Scotland’s A&E services are the best performing in the UK.
    ?95% of hospital day case and inpatients seen within 12 weeks last year.
    ?Healthcare kept local. A&E units saved, children’s cancer services and neurosurgery units protected, and maternity units kept open.
    ?Over £5 billion invested in Scotland’s health infrastructure since 2007, including the South Glasgow Hospitals and Emergency Care Centre in Aberdeen.
    ?Pay rises for our NHS staff delivered.
    ?Nursing staff up to £714 a year better off than their counterparts in England.
    ?Hospitals cleaner and safer. Cases of C. Diff and MRSA fall to lowest levels recorded.
    ?Almost £40 million invested to raise public awareness of cancer, and catch it earlier.
    ?Risk of cervical cancer cut by providing HPV vaccine for girls in second year of school.
    ?Scrapped parking charges at NHS-run hospital. Patients and staff save £25 million.
    ?Highest number of GPs per head of the population in the UK; more practices are now open in the evenings and at weekends.
    ?Scotland first country in the UK to have a mental health waiting times target.
    ?Over £150 million invested next five years to improve mental health services.
    ?2.2 million registered with an NHS dentist than when the SNP took office.
    ?98% of primary and secondary schools providing two hours of physical education a week – up from 10 per cent in 2005.
    ?More funding provided to support carers and young carers; over 22,500 benefiting from the Short Breaks Fund.
    ?Irresponsible alcohol discounts in supermarkets and off-licences banned.
    ?Legal age for buying tobacco raised to 18.
    ?Control of social care services budget through the Self-Directed Support Act.
    ?Extra funding for Scotland’s veteran charities, ex-service men and women receive priority treatment in the NHS and other services.
    ?Free childcare increased to 16 hours a week (from 12.5) for 3 and 4 year-olds. Also extended to 2 year-olds of low-income families.
    ?Patient satisfaction levels are second-to-none.
    ?£3.3 billion more given to our health system that when the SNP took office.

    A smarter Scotland
    ?All children in primaries 1 to 3 – around 135,000 pupils – benefiting from free school meals, saving families around £380 per child per year.
    ?The £160 million Attainment Scotland Fund improves literacy, numeracy and health and well-being for children in over 300 primary schools in the most deprived areas.
    ?Spending per pupil is significantly higher here than south of the border – 9% higher per pupil in primary at £4,899, 12% higher per pupil in secondary at £6,738.
    ?Investment of £1.8 billion and 607 school projects delivered.
    ?4,020 school children able to learn in dedicated Gaelic medium language classes.
    ?The Disabled Students Allowance in Scotland protected and bursaries for students maintained, while the Tories abolished both elsewhere in the UK.
    ?Education Maintenance Allowance in Scotland expanded– scrapped in England – to support 57,000 school pupils and college students from low income families.
    ?Over 119,000 full-time equivalent college places provided – exceeding 2011 manifesto commitment to maintain 116,000 places.
    ?£530 million invested in college estates and state-of-the-art buildings in Glasgow, Kilmarnock and Inverness – plus £140 million for Fife and Forth Valley colleges.
    ?Full-time college students benefit from the highest bursary of anywhere in the UK.
    ?A record numbers of Scots supported into university. Young people from deprived areas more likely to study at university.
    ?The poorest university students living at home benefit from a minimum income guarantee of £7,625 per year – the highest in the UK.
    ?More women entering universities are choosing to study science, technology, engineering and maths subjects. They make up 48% of those gaining degrees.
    ?Free tuition protected saving students £27,750 compared to England.
    ?A 3-D printer given to every library in Scotland.

    A wealthier Scotland
    ?Scotland has the highest employment rate of the four nations in the UK, women and youth employment rates exceed those of the UK.
    ?Typical pay in Scotland is now, for the first time, higher than in England.
    ?The Scottish economy has seen three years of growth up to the third quarter of 2015.
    ?186,855 young people took the opportunity to undertake a modern apprenticeship since 2007, and by 2020 a further 30,000 opportunities will be available every year.
    ?Around 22,000 families supported to buy their own home through home ownership schemes – three quarters of them under the age of 35.
    ?Councils enabled to build new homes– 5,292 council houses built since 2011.
    ?15,500 social houses for rent safeguarded by ending Right to Buy.
    ?£500 million invested to stimulate conomic growth in Glasgow and the Clyde Valley.
    ?£125 million allocated to Aberdeen to stimulate economic growth in the city, plus an additional £254 million for infrastructure projects in the North-east.
    ?£60 million put towards a Town Centre Regeneration Fund.
    ?£500 million spent on tackling fuel poverty, with one in three households helped to improve home energy efficiency.
    ?Tax burden reduced on the sale of homes, with 93% of house buyers paying less than under UK stamp duty land tax or paying no tax at all.
    ?The number of private sector businesses in Scotland at 361,345, the highest number recorded – productivity is up 4.4% compared to 0.2 per cent in the UK.
    ?International exports increased by 36%. (2007 to 2014) £20.3 billion to £27.5 billion.
    ?Tourism healthier with 15.5 million tourists visiting in the year to September 2015.
    ?Enterprise and development spending per head in Scotland is double that of the UK, and spending on research and development has increased by 44% since 2007.

    A fairer Scotland
    ?More than 80% of Scots paid the Living Wage of £8.25 an hour. Scotland offers highest proportion of workers in UK at least a living wage.
    ?In 2011, the first government in the UK to pay the Living Wage to our staff.
    ?Poverty levels down. 260,000 fewer people in poverty in 2014 than in 2000.
    ?Invested £90 million to ensure that no-one in Scotland has to pay the Bedroom Tax, protecting up to 72,000 households from threat of eviction or becoming homeless.
    ?Over half a million vulnerable households – including over 200,000 pensioners and 86,000 single parents – protected from UK Government cuts to Council Tax support.
    ?Almost 3,000 disabled people supported through the Independent Living Fund Scotland, set up after the UK Government scrapped its support.
    ?Over 200 companies signed the Scottish Business Pledge to boost productivity and increase diversity.
    ?54,000 new affordable homes built, and counting.
    ?Number of days lost to industrial disputes down 84%, the lowest of any UK country.
    ?Encouraging public, third, private sector companies to boardroom gender equality.
    ?Nicola Sturgeon appointed first cabinet with an equal number of women and men.
    ?Scotland is leading light on LGBTI equality, with progressive equal marriage laws.
    ?Over £75 million has been spent since 2007 to help some of the world’s poorest and most vulnerable people.

    A safer Scotland
    ?Violent crime down 55%, homicides 51%, weapons/knife crime two-thirds.
    ?£216 million invested in the creation of the new national police service.
    ?The new Scottish Crime Campus provides a focal point for excellence in intelligence-sharing
    , evidence gathering and forensic science to tackle serious organised crime.
    ?Since 2007, 1,000 more police officers keeping our communities safe. By contrast, police numbers south of the border have fallen to their lowest level in 15 years.
    ?Automatic early release ended: long-term prisoners will serve their sentence in full.
    ?Reconviction rate reduced to its lowest level in 16 years.
    ?£75 million seized from criminals reinvested in community projects for the young.
    ?HMP Grampian opened in March 2014 and HMP Low Moss opened in March 2012, two major parts of the prison building programme.
    ?Access to air weapons tightened.
    ?A record £33 million invested to tackle domestic violence against women and girls.
    ?Access to justice for survivors of domestic abuse improved too.
    ?Tackling sectarianism backed up with record investment.
    ?The new Scottish Fire and Rescue Service created.
    ?Scotland has the UK’s first national action plan on human rights.

    Investing for the future
    ?£1 billion invested annually in public and sustainable transport to encourage people out of cars. Spending for safer walking and cycling at a record high.
    ?Scottish Steel, Ferguson Shipyard, and the last remaining UK aluminium smelter in Lochabar – all saved.
    ?The £1.4 billion Queensferry Crossing is on time and on budget.
    ?Tolls on the Forth and Tay bridges abolished, commuters continue to save £184 a year crossing the Tay, £207 a year on crossing the Forth.
    ?Borders Railway reopened, longest domestic railway built in Britain in over 100 years.
    ?£742 million Edinburgh-Glasgow rail improvements; widespread electrification of the network between the two cities, and to Stirling and Dunblane.
    ?£3 billion to create 80 miles of dual carriageway on the A9 Perth-Inverness, £745 million to Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route, plus M8, M73 and M74 motorway.
    ?£170 million Aberdeen Inverness rail upgrade; new stations at Dalcross and Kintore.
    ?Contracts worth £97 million will protect the 150-strong workforce and create 100 new jobs at the last commercial shipyard on the Clyde.
    ?Prestwick Airport saved from closure, safeguarding around 1,350 jobs.
    ?£500 million a year to deliver higher water quality, better environmental protection, and better service for customers. Scottish Water now UK’s most trusted utility.
    ?£400 million to deliver superfast broadband to 95 per cent of properties across Scotland by the end of 2017.
    ?Negotiating the renaissance of the UK’s only aluminium smelter in Lochaber, Fort William, creating over 600 new jobs, half in the smelter, half in services.

    Empowering communities
    ?The independence referendum was the biggest democratic exercise in our history.
    ?The voting age for Scottish Parliament and local government elections permanently lowered to 16, starting from May 2016.
    ?Fighting for LGBTI rights, plus secured best equal marriage laws in the world.
    ?Local communities given a voice – backed up with £20 million funding – in the planning and delivery of local services through the Community Empowerment Act.
    ?£9 million Scottish Land Fund helped 52 communities across the country purchase land. Over 500,000 acres is now in community ownership – benefiting 71,000 people.
    ?The ambitious Land Reform Bill introduced to transform rules around the ownership, accessibility and benefits of land in Scotland. More reforms to come.

    A greener Scotland
    ?Renewable electricity output more than doubled since 2007, with renewables largest contributor to electricity generation in Scotland.
    ?Our target to reduce energy consumption by 12% by 2020 exceeded, a 13.3% reduction between 2006 and 2013.
    ?Scotland is on target to deliver world-leading climate reduction of greenhouse gas emissions by 42% by 2020.
    ?Moratorium on underground coal gasification and fracking.
    ?Household recycling at its highest ever levels. 43% of household waste recycled.
    ?Carrier bag use reduced by 80%. Bag charge raised nearly £7 million for good causes.
    ?Investment in flood defences and new measures in the Flooding Act.
    ?Scotland was one of the first countries in the world to sign up to the UN Sustainable Development Goals; established the world’s first Climate Justice Fund.
    ?Scotland became the world’s second Fair Trade Nation in 2013.

    Supporting rural communities
    ?A record £1 billion invested in vessels, ports and ferry services since 2007 as part of a commitment to the islands and remote communities.
    ?Residents of Caithness and north-west Sutherland, Colonsay, Islay, Jura, Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles are eligible for a 50% discount on air fares.
    ?Created a key role in reforming EU fisheries policy to bring an end to the wasteful discarding of fish at sea.
    ?With food and drink exports valued over £5 billion, and new jobs created in the sector by 2020, continued support to promote Scotland’s top quality produce.
    ?Fares on ferry services frozen until 2017 for passengers, cars, commercial vehicles.
    ?Opting out of cultivation of genetically modified crops in Scotland.
    ?Scotland’s first National Marine Plan to achieve sustainable development of our seas.

    Enabling creativity and sport
    ?Free access maintained to museums and galleries, with 27 million visits to Scotland’s world class national collections since 2007.
    ?Government provided support for Scotland to welcome the world in 2014, with the staging of the Ryder Cup at Gleneagles and the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow.
    ?£162 million pumped into Scotland’s screen sector since 2007.
    ?£130 million invested in our cultural infrastructure – including revamped National Museum of Scotland, National Portrait Gallery, the palace at Stirling Castle.
    ?£16 million direct investment in Edinburgh’s 12 major festivals since 2008.
    ?£25 million for the Victoria and Albert Museum of Design in Dundee.
    ?The new Bannockburn visitor centre which opened in February 2014, and the creation of the Robert Burns Birthplace Museum in Ayrshire which opened in December 2010.
    ?1.5 million opportunities created for young people to take part in youth arts in 2015.

  16. muttley79 says:

    As far as I can tell a lot of the remaining SLABBERS appear to be Blue Tories anyway. How many people would genuinely struggle to see the likes of Kezia Dugdale, Baillie, Hothersall etc in the Scottish Conservative Party?

  17. mogabee says:

    That juggernaut is thundering down the hill and taking out those who don’t jump away in time.

    I believe the SNP is in the driving seat!

  18. Almannysbunnet says:

    Sadly it shows what a “magnificent” job labour has done down the years in demonising the SNP and still it goes on as their party disappears down the plughole. They say hate will eat you up and kill you.

  19. Bob Mack says:

    Isn’t it incredible to think that the very people who have suffered most at the hands of the Tories in terms of bedroom tax and reduction of benefits are the very ones who now support them. It is not rational.

    When you are brainwashed by Britney propoganda it is very hard to shake off.

    I think we all know the demographics of these figures. No need to elaborate.

  20. louis.b.argyll says:

    Good concise bulletin Rev C.

    Greens need to reach into the former Lib Dem demographic –
    ‘..for the good of our children and grandchildren..’ concerns.
    Where they can educate and enlighten, while campaigning for local authority seats.

  21. Arbroath1320 says:

    Surely we must be approaching the point where even the most devout of devoutest Labour members/supporters will say “enough is enough” and walk away from the crumbs on the floor of what was once a respectable political party.

    As things stand at the moment, and with Council elections looming, surely it can only be a matter of month’s before the Labour %age of the vote falls below the 10% mark.

    The current so called “leadership” in Scotland is a joke. No scratch that they are no longer a joke they are the worst sort of ludicrously bad jokes to fall out of a Christmas cracker. They are the sort of joke that no one even bothers to vaguely smile at far less laugh!

  22. Training Day says:

    Not a surprise. One quick look at the Labour Hame website tells you exactly what Labour has to offer: bitter little men who want Scotland punished for the temerity to want self-determination; Britnat roasters living in the 1950s; and a gaggle of wallopers fantasising about ‘solidarity’ and ‘comradeliness’, howling into a vacuum.

    Begone, Labour. You are irrelevant.

  23. Hamish100 says:

    How can we get to the % of people who still didn’t vote in 2014?

  24. galamcennalath says:

    In the 2005/2010 general elections the percentages were

    Lab 39 / 42
    LibDem 23 / 19
    SNP 18 / 20
    Con 16 / 17

    The poll above shows relative movements of

    Lab -25 / -28
    LibDem -19 / -15
    SNP +29 / +27
    Con +12 / +11

    2005 and 2010 weren’t that different.

    Then came IndyRef1. The LibDem’s were additionally damaged with their coalition.

    The change has obviously been Unionists to the Tories, Indy folks to the SNP. Overall, for every 5 voters the SNP gained, 2 went to the Tories.

    The table above shows the working class Unionists putting their British identity before traditional class identity.

    How many working class actually moved Lab -> Con? Quite hard to tell because we don’t really know where LibDem working class went. Or indeed how big that group was. It is distinctly possible that few voters went Lab -> Con. Most Lab may have gone SNP, while a higher percentage LibDems went to the Tories.

  25. Thepnr says:

    The Tories have outflanked labour on the Independence issue. Their leader is simply thick to believe that Labour in Scotland can hang on to its remaining support by talking a hardline Unionist perspective.

    That 22% will soon be zero, the rats will desert the sinking ship that is Labour and shift to either the Tory B’stards holding this country back or to the SNP.

    There is no middle ground, Ms Dugdale is an idiot. She will reap what she sows and Labour will be out of power in the UK for the next 25 years.

    I’ll say it again, Ms Dugdale is an idiot.

  26. Mike says:

    Thing is I don’t believe Labour in Scotland actually gives a shit if the Labour party falls. I genuinely believe that the Red Tories within Labour want to see it fall.

    They are happy to live within a Blue Tory fascist state.
    What gets them agitated is the threat of a Left of centre resurgence anywhere within the UK.

    Hence their blind hatred for the SNP and their own party leader relative to their indifference to the Conservative Tories.

    They are content enough to sing along to a Conservative Tory hymn sheet but put a Socialist chord anywhere near them and they go apoplectic.

    They are clearly not responding to their fall in support in a way you would expect them to if they actually did care.

    In fact its just business as usual.

    Its a massive betrayal to their ground root support.

    But hey ho if it gets us our Independence then Hell mend em all.

  27. Arbroath1320 says:

    Speaking as World class idiot Thepnr I resent that remark! 😛

    Wee Kezzy is NOT an idiot. WE have certain standards that must be acquired before being considered an idiot. Thankfully for the standards of Idiots she has FAILED in every category with next to no likelihood of her achieving even one category pas within the next 5 years! 😀

  28. David Wardrope says:

    Joking aside, I’m not sure the rise in Tory support in Scotland is worth seeing Scottish Labour taking a shoeing at the polls. That 28% is a wee bit horrifying

  29. Iain Bell says:

    Am I reading this data correctly: 16% of ‘NO’ voters would vote SNP.
    Could that be construed as 16% of those who voted ‘NO’ in 2014 would now vote ‘YES’ to Independence as that is, basically, what the SNP are offering?
    Nice to think so 🙂

  30. Arbroath1320 says:

    Sorry for O/T here but if anyone feels like playing games with the Tory branch office then this might brighten up your day.

  31. Flower of Scotland says:

    Nice one Morag!

    The SNP actually do have enough votes on their own!

  32. heedtracker says:

    The Graun Scotland section today, unusually not discussing Scottish weather, scenery, or obituaries, as they do all week but instead,

    Monday 20 March 2017 16.09 GMT

    Can England avoid a meltdown of national identity?
    Paul Mason
    Paul Mason
    After a hard Brexit and the end of the union, the English will need to define what they stand for – and how they are ruled

    We are still a mere region of greater England to be fair to Graun liggers, Labour voters as they are:D

  33. FatCandy says:

    Hamish100 @ 4.58

    +1 for “shoogliest”

  34. galamcennalath says:

    David Wardrope says:

    Tory support in Scotland …. 28% is a wee bit horrifying


    However, the Scottish branch have been going to pains to pretend not to be London Brexit mad Tories … which they are.

    There is a fair chance Brexit will begin to look nasty even before the May local elections. While the Unionists are rallying to the Tories, we must remember most Tory voters are motivated by protecting their personal wealth and status. By definition they do not think of the wider good.

    Brexit will begin to make some think twice when it threatens what they hold dear. And for most that is their wallet/purse and property, not their identity!

    At least, that’s my hope! 🙂

  35. heedtracker says:

    Here we go, from, not a chance, to maybe. Should tighten a few SLab sphincters at least. We’ll get blitzed with BBC led media gimps screaming federal UK ultra super dooper style, if we shut and stay UK.

  36. Clydebuilt says:

    Is Dugdale really this thick, surely more likely she’s a Yesser deep under cover, doing her bit for her country. Yeah more likely she’s a Scottish hero.

  37. Sandy says:

    Just got an E-mail from “Daily Health Alert” stating, “No, beards are not as filthy as toilets”.
    Please pass on to Mundell.

  38. Luigi says:

    There are probably enough Wingers voting in the council elections in May to ensure that every Red Tory controlled Council is obliterated in May – if we vote the right way.

    Perhaps the Rev or James Kelly can advise us nearer the time, but my gut feeling is that if we all used the STV system correctly and placed the Labour candidates last on our lists, we could nearly wipe out the complete shower.

    Now there’s a thought. 🙂

    Hit em’ hard when they are vulnerable – no mercy. Certainly not after, how they have behaved since 2014.

  39. woosie says:

    Tell me the Scottish labour voters aren’t so stupid that they can’t see the only way back for labour is to vote SNP, and YES in Scotref, then labour in the subsequent Independent Scotland election!

    I watched a link to Owen Jones’ blog earlier; he’s a clever guy, but even he assumes that a future Scotland will automatically be ruled by SNP forever!

    I’ve always voted SNP, and will until independence. Once that’s achieved, and only then, will I consider a socialist option.

  40. Stoker says:

    “Holyrood not told about Article 50 date”

    Reports are circulating that Downing Street “FORGOT” to tell the Scottish Government’s Brexit Minister, Mike Russell, who learned of the date from BBC reporting.

    Obnoxious arrogant b@s£@r#s! And they wonder why we want away!

  41. Stoker says:

    On the subject of local elections – I’ve tried to find out from my council the names of all the candidates standing in my Ward of the Scottish Borders and they can’t give me that info until after 4pm on 29/03/17, which now turns out to also be the date for triggering Article 50.

  42. Dan Huil says:

    It looks like being a Yes v. tories referendum.

  43. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Labour have majestically captured the gap in the market for the “representing nobody” party and lost everything in the chase. A masterstroke from the party of dunces.”

    Indeed, Martin, an apt summary.

    I do wonder, however, if on Wednesday the sentient BLiS______d MEPs like Malcolm Chisholm, who has always seemed pretty decent to me, will support the SG. Even if it is only for self-interest to avoid being on the wrong side of history, surely a few will consider “crossing the floor”?

    Hmmmmm: have I taken that too far?

  44. Tinto Chiel says:

    Apologies: MSPs!

    Darmed sausage fingers. Me and Kezia have something in common at last.

  45. jfngw says:

    I feel the Tories are now at their peak, they are unlikely to attract many more Labour supporters. It must be a depressing to be a Labour supporter, little prospect of having any influence except hoping to be in coalition with the Tories as the minor partner (I actually could see this happening, they are so desperate).

  46. ALANM says:

    “Cuilean says:

    20 March, 2017 at 4:35 pm

    I really want kippers rolled in oatmeal for my tea now, remember, the kind they used to sell in Lewis’s foodhall when they were still on Sauchiehall Street”

    I had a temp xmas job in the Lewis’s foodhall in 1973 and I’m here to tell you it was in Argyll Street!

  47. Marie Clark says:

    Downing Street “FORGOT” to tell the Scottish Government Brexit Minister that the will trigger Article 50 next week. Aye Right.

    Did they “FORGET” to Norn Irn and Wales too, or just us?

    For all of the hysterical MSM telling May to call a snap GE, they are forgetting it’s a fixed term parliament now. It’s not very easy anymore, to try and call a snap GE. I think the Maybot would be too scared anyway, she might lose votes to UKIP and the LibDums. She’ll no be worried aboot Labour.

  48. Macart says:

    Oh jings! Now that’s got to leave a mark.

    Years of tribalism, arrogance, neglect, demonising and othering coming back to bite big time.

    They’ll keep on doing it too and the result will be exactly the same. Signing on with the Conservatives for Scotref and the rumoured agreements over the LA elections the killer blow.

    Quite telling that during the weekend conference speech by the FM, they didn’t even rate a footnote.

  49. Ian McCubbin says:

    Like he budget a deal is done with the Greens and as they are a pro Indepence party in Scotland it will happen that section 30 is passed by Holyrood.
    Some of tbe Labour voters left and a few Tories who want Independence rather than brexit will be disappointed.

  50. icyspark says:

    Bob Mack @ 5:08pm

    I must admit that when I was a lot younger, I did suffer terribly from Britney propaganda!

    Oh baby baby! 😉

  51. Brian Powell says:

    Tinto Chiel

    Malcolm Chisolm stepped down at the last SGE, he is no longer an MSP. Don’t think there are many like him left in Holyrood Slab.

  52. Legerwood says:

    It looks as if it is not just Labour in Scotland that is in trouble and losing votes to the Tories. The Dutch labour party imploded in the recent elections and quite a few of the seats they lost went to right-wing parties.

    Meanwhile, the big brothers in London seem to be getting into a right fangle with alleged plotting between Momentum and United first a Labour party takeover.

    Slightly O/T but the Guardian has an article penned, I think, by a Dutch journalist. The article has some cogent criticism of the British media and their reporting, or misreporting, of the recent Dutch elections.

    So not just us who notice the bias and general inadequacy of the media here.

  53. Bob Mack says:

    Damn predicatext . That took 3 tries to get right as well!!!

  54. icyspark says:

    Bob Mack @ 5:08pm

    Though thanks to Taylor Swift, I managed to “Shake it off”

  55. Alan Bryson says:

    When I think about why Slab voters are now voting for the Tories I always return to the woman that was on question time who said “If I had known the Tory policies would have affected me I would not have voted for them”.

    I think there is a very similar attitude among these Slab voters.

    The full effect of Tory policies has been somewhat mitigated by the Scottish Government (better performing NHS, Transport, free education etc) also they have been conditioned over the decades to believe the mantra of SNP BAD!!!

    At the moment they see the Tories as the lesser of two evils but this might change as the full consequences of BREXIT come apparent and start to affect their lives directly.

  56. Dorothy Devine says:

    AlanM, dead right ! Argylle Street and delicious – loved the smell of the place.

    OT Just watched the apparent Alloa SDL on ITV news – seemed to have very strange Scottish accents. I did think it was a report designed to frighten the horses and found myself a tad skeptical .

  57. Bob Mack says:


    Take a bow ( rhianna).

  58. Maureen Luby says:

    Luigi @ 6 pm It’s my understanding that in the local elections it’s best not to rank any unionist party at all. Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.

  59. jfngw says:

    Using the constituency votes as this compares the same voting system as Westminster.

    SNP 59 seats
    The Rest 14 seats

    The SNP has 80% of these seats, a majority of 60%, and 70% above the Tories. The Tories only have 51% of the seats at WM. Uncomfortable facts for Tories when they talk about mandates.

  60. ChewinTheFat says:

    If you guys want another giggle I can give you one.

    I learned today that Scottish Police are spying on Yes voters. When I say spying, I mean watching every little thing you say online.

    My brother’s lecturer informed her politics class that she was being spied on by Police – her theory as to why – because she is being too “political.” In other words, an SNP supporter and a Yes voter.

    Her lawyer did inform her though that there IS an enquiry as to WHY exactly she was being spied on, yet she is not permitted to be part of the enquiry herself… and he also said that he “is pretty sure the documents will be getting shredded as we speak.”

    Now there’s food for thought. Just how corrupt is the No side exactly? I suspect we may hear more cases like this soon enough, although I am pretty sure that it will be kept under wraps from the media. Sadly.

  61. Stoker says:

    Marie Clark (6:18pm):

    Re snap election: Mayhems unamed spokesman has today stated that “It’s not going to happen.”

    Meant to make it clear for Wingers earlier, on the subject of this years Council Elections – You should be able to access a full list of standing candidates for your area on your councils web site after 4pm on 29/03/17.

    Best way to know is phone your council and make sure because areas may differ, depending on your council. The sooner you know who’s standing the sooner you can organise your voting intentions and spread the word around your area etc.

    Hope this helps!

  62. clan rossy says:

    The labour party should be renamed the judas party
    they have sold the scottish people for there
    30 pieces of silver.

    so it is only right that they be crucified at the
    local council elections for what they really are

    so from now on who ever mentions the labour party
    i shall reply back dont you mean the judas party.

    scum the whole lot of them.

  63. Phil says:

    @ Luigi: @ 6pm

    I always thought the only way to ensure the result you want is to vote #1 for SNP, #2 for SNP (if a second one is standing), then do not use any further votes.

    I can say that at our last LA election looking at the votes cast compiled in order saw a candidate receiving a lower total elected over one receiving a higher total. These two were both way down the list and only by going through the election/elimination rounds one by one by hand at home the next day was it possible to ascertain that votes way down the list for iffy candidates can bounce up to eliminate someone further up the list.

    I’ll not be caught again. And, give the chance I will not support PR again.

  64. Vestas says:

    Maureen Luby 6:50 pm :

    “Luigi @ 6 pm It’s my understanding that in the local elections it’s best not to rank any unionist party at all. Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.”

    You’re wrong. See previous thread & various postings on Scot Goes Pop.

  65. Ken500 says:

    Seemingly. After voting for SNP candidates in 1st, 2nd preference. You have to rank Unionist Parties at local elections in preference by how much degree they are detested. With the worst last. A really big call and totally undemocratic, because of this corrupt elections lsystem. Voters have to vote for people (Parties) they despise with a passion.

    Even to an extent of Parties who support Independence/EU membership, as preference. They have wreck the local economy in collusion and wasted £Million/Billion of public money getting the City in debt and destroyed the City Centre to line their own pockets. Built grotesque projects against the majority wishes and the public interest.

    Deliberately getting the City in £Millions/Billion of debt. Sold off the City on the stock exchange. Ruined local services, education etc. With lsck of proper provision. Making vulnerable people’s lives especially harder. It is totally deplorable. They could get elected in again and again and again under this system, and nothing can be done about it. Ruined local services. Reported time and time again and they just get away with it. It is heart breaking. Used public money like a slush fund. No wonder they are so smug. Low lives.

    It is also difficult to explain as every constituency is different. No wonder people do not vote. A travesty of justice and democracy. This electoral system is a utterly and totally disgrace.

  66. liz says:

    IMO you shouldn’t rate the unionist parties unless you want to say disadvantage either the Tories or Lab, depending on who’s most likely to get the most votes.

    The Greens annoy me sometimes with their pettiness but for me it will be; SNP 1&2,( if 3 candidates will vote 3) Greens 3, any other Scottish indy supporter eg SSP, RISE(aargh) and not giving either Red or Blue anything

  67. DerekM says:

    Well well well slabbers is this a good moment for me to say i told you so.

    Want the bad news slabbers we are not finished with you yet.

    tick tock

  68. Giving Goose says:

    No less an observer than Peter Hitchens, Daily Mail columnist, is of the opinion that the differences between Blairite Labour and the Tories at Westminster were veneer thin.

    In Hitchen’s opinion they were effectively one party. He is perfectly correct in this view and by extension, that logic states that Labour in Scotland are Tories.

    Now there will be people at an activist level who probably regard themselves as “old” Labour, or perhaps see themselves as “of the left” but the people pulling the strings are most definitely Tory at heart.

    These string pulling puppet masters are BritNat in view and have muddy, polluted Thames sewer water running through their veins.

    Kez is a puppet who probably thinks she is quite clever but she is being controlled. Kez is no puppet master, she doesn’t have the intellect.

    Hitchens voiced an opinion that the Blairite faction of Labour would probably prefer May as leader rather than Corbyn. Same applies in Scotland.

    The point is – with Labour in Scotland you are genuinely dealing with a Tory wearing a red rosette, not due to the fact that they would identify with being a Tory but because it’s the person pulling the strings that needs to be understood and that puppet master is a Tory!

  69. woosie says:

    The tories are taking slab voters by appealing to the orange odour cro-magnon demograph. The local elections will show whether the slabs have been outthunk or simply compliant by standing aside for them.

    Either way, true democracy is the victim.

  70. Alan Crerar says:

    Shaping up nicely to clear the way – without any middle-ground distractions of well-meaning ‘lefties’ and well-irrelevant ‘Liberals’ – the final battle between the SNP and the Unionists.
    A simple choice. Scottish Nationalism or English Nationalism.
    There is nothing else left.
    Just Armageddon for the Yoons.

  71. DerekM says:


    lol just seen the wee dug tweet this triggering article 50

  72. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Malcolm Chisolm stepped down at the last SGE, he is no longer an MSP. Don’t think there are many like him left in Holyrood Slab.”

    Thanks, Brian, I didn’t realise that. He was unusual in being a decent sort and seemed quite unembittered towards the SNP.

  73. Ken500 says:

    The STV electoral system. It actually makes people feel physically sick to have to vote for Unionist, corrupt crooks.

  74. DerekM says:

    lol i see from the Rev`s twitter he knows how that one goes.

    You just cant beat the classics 🙂

  75. stewartb says:

    Dorothy Devine @ 6:44 pm and others

    Many thanks for triggering pleasant memories of Lewis’s store on Argyll Street, Glasgow.

    Once you mentioned it Dorothy, I too could almost smell the basement foodhall. Also remember listening to music (‘singles’) in sound-proofed booths – again I think in the basement; and climbing to the top floor via a stairway on the east side of the store to visit Santa at Christmas!

    Thanks for the memories!

  76. Ken500 says:

    Imagine in Glasgow in the height of corruption. Someone has to vote (Thatcher/May/Davidson) Tory to keep Labour out. It is sickening.

  77. Gary45% says:

    I agree with you regarding Malcolm Chisolm. In my opinion he was the last of the decent Slab politicians. Every one since has shown themselves to be bitter, divisive and to be found wanting for any ideas for the Scottish good.
    I think their hatred for the SNP comes down to a simple reason, for decades they milked the electorate in Scotland on the premise that they were the only party to stop the Tories getting elected, many believed them (some still do)
    and it was easy for them to get the vote.
    When the SNP started to gain more credibility, Slab realised their gravy train was coming off the rails, hence this is one of the many reasons why they hate the SNP.
    If for a millisecond they opened their eyes and realised there will be Independence, there would be a chance they could govern the Parliament at some point in the future, (although the current crop of Slab are not worth pissing on), but there are a young generation of (old value) Slabers who see a future of an Indy Scotland, if only the current crop in Holyrood could embrace the future.

  78. Tinto Chiel says:

    Gary45%, your last para. was spot on. If Labour embraced independence wholeheartedly they could gradually win back a significant number of the tens of thousands they lost to the SNP in 2014/15.

    However a change like this would require intelligence and a commitment to Scotland over Londinium and its baubles and stoatskins. I think that is beyond them so they will be doomed to oblivion as a party.

    It’s really the simplest of choices now: Scotland or the Toxic Tories.

  79. crazycat says:

    @ Ken500

    Nobody has to vote for the unionist candidates.

    You can use as many or as few preferences as you like.

    But if there are more seats in the ward than pro-indy candidates, someone has to win those seats.

    You, as an independence supporter, can choose whether to try to influence which of the unionists are elected – or not, if you don’t want to vote for them.

    For instance, my ward currently has 2 SNP, 2 Lab.
    The SNP won’t put up 3 candidates because they are unlikely all to win, and the wrong distribution of first preferences (ie split between 3 candidates) might end up costing them the second seat that they hold now.

    So I have an opportunity to try to unseat the 1 Labour incumbent who is standing again, by voting for the other current Labour councillor, who has been deselected and is standing as an independent. (To confuse things, 25 years ago he was a Tory! I doubt if that’s why they deselected him.)

    As it happens, I doubt if I can bring myself to vote for any of the unionists, in some cases because of personal dislike, but I do realize that means other people will decide which of them gets in. Even if they don’t reach the quota, if there are two seats still to be decided and only 2 candidates left, they’ll get in.

  80. Robert Peffers says:

    @Marie Clark says: 20 March, 2017 at 4:57 pm:

    ” … they’d be as well forming one unionist party and be done with it.”

    They are just the one unionist party, Marie. They always have been the one big party and it is called the Westminster Establishment. Mind you there is very good reason why they have always pretended to be different parties in opposition to each other.

    It has never mattered whether they were Whigs, Conservative, Liberals, Democrats, Labour or any other title thereof, they have always been the Westminster Establishment.

    There is logic in this, believe it or not. You see, while all having the same ultimate aims, they, of necessity, had to present a face to the electorate and the world that seemed as if democracy were in fact it action.

    So the face presented to the World is of democratically elected opposing political parties but the ultimate aim of them all is to keep a firm English grip upon the British Isles, Empire or Commonwealth, or whatever level of English dominion the Westminster Establishment had under their power at any particular point in Britain’s history.

  81. Eckle Fechan says:

    O/T Q: What’s Jim Murphy doing for a living these days?

  82. yesindyref2 says:

    I have this feeling that if Labour and the LibDems vote against the Referendum Bill on Wednesday, that will come back to haunt them. More sensible for them to abstain.

  83. heedtracker says:

    Council elections are the next big SNP bad challenge for Donaldo and assorted SLab broadcasters of Pacific Quay,

  84. HandandShrimp says:

    Labour – proving that turkeys do vote for Christmas

  85. Ken500 says:

    Malcom Chisholm only spoke up when he retired. He is/was as bad as the rest of them with their incessantly weird questions of lies. Especially on Health. Remember it well. The Tories dislike the SNP as much as Labour. They are funded by Unionists. The gravy train and comfortable selfish life is more important than conscience or care for any constituent. Just making other people’s lives harder with no compassion, totally out of touch.

    Teresa May is worse than Thatcher,if that is possible. It is outrageous the way she is carrying on. Totally out of touch and place. In every Gov position she has held she has not been successful. She blamed other public officials for her errors. They resigned and lost their jobs. She could not care less for others. Selfish and lying hypocrite uncaring about vulnerable people. The Tories are beyond belief. Davidson in her fuming outrage can’t contain her jealousy and distain for Nicola’s success. Out classed. Always fuming with rage.

    6 Jobs Osbourne’s exceptionally high illegal, unequal taxes on the Oil sector in Scotland caused 120,000 jobs loses and lost £Billion in revenues for Scotland. Thousands of people lost their jobs. Despicable.

  86. Lochside says:

    @ Iain Bell..’Am I reading this data correctly: 16% of ‘NO’ voters would vote SNP’.
    If so Iain……never mind Greens….that would equal 320,000 from REF1.
    That would take us over the line easily. Add on the EU and 16-18 yr old , plus the never voted folk in the schemes, plus a few freshly sussed auld yins and we win handsomely!
    No wonder they are shitting it1

  87. K1 says:

    I want them to vote against so there is absolutely no doubt in anyone’s minds ever again about ‘what’ the Labour Party ‘is’. Tories through and through….they are already being haunted ergo the state they are already in, they’ve nothing left to lose by at least being totally honest at the end of their days in Scotland.

  88. Robert Peffers says:

    @Hamish100 says: 20 March, 2017 at 4:58 pm:

    ” … Even selfishly do they not understand by voting No, their own future (by aligning with Tory UKIP) is hanging by the shoogliest of pegs.”

    I believe that the truth of the matter is, Hamish100, that in Labour’s case their collective Jaikits have been lying on the floorboards for a considerable period of time.

    The reason they don’t change course, and do what they actually know to be the right thing to do, is because they know it is far too late to be sufficient to hing thir jaikits back up again.

    What does it matter to them now that the next time they pick up those jaikits will be to wear them as they go outside. All that really remains for them to do is for the last one out to switch off the lights and heating and turn off the water at the main.

    Mind you I get the feeling they have just enough feelings of grievance and entitlement left to just leave everything on out of pure spite.

  89. Ken500 says:

    Thanks Ronnie A and Chic

    The video was brae. ‘Donald’s whar’s yer viewers’ That cheered folk up.

    Misreporting Scotland campaign is brilliant.

  90. Garles says:

    Dorothy Devine says:
    20 March, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    OT Just watched the apparent Alloa SDL on ITV news – seemed to have very strange Scottish accents. I did think it was a report designed to frighten the horses and found myself a tad skeptical

    Funny that I am working in the midlands at the moment,sharing a house with northern England guys.One commented “that’s naw a Scottish accent,well no like yours”

  91. DerekM says:

    @ Eckle Fechan

    Jim is doing what Jim always does looking for gullible fools to talk pish at.

    When it comes to talking pish the egg man is the best,he could make pish up from the top of his head on the spur of the moment,not like these plastic Jim wannabie tories who have to think about their pish.

    Definitely the superior unionist even slight signs of intelligence in the same way you see with an orangutan when you give it a box.

  92. Vestas says:

    I wonder if I’m the only one here who literally laughed out loud when I saw Gideon getting the London Evening Standard editors job?


    He loathes May & the Brexiteers. London/SE benefits most from single market. He’s now editor of the largest (free) paper in London – which the BBC uses as one of their “we’re not biased” papers.

    You wanted the job Theresa, best get on with it mmmm? Oh and that means the “day job” which is Brexit, not going on a grand procession around the country…

    I suspect that in future years we may view Gideon as “still a tory tosser but not as bad as he used to be”. Scary thought.

  93. Feel_loon says:

    Sky now pushing a “new poll” that says Theresa may is more popular in Scotland than Nicola.

    It’s just unbelievable,,it’s going to be relentless monstering of Nicola for the foreseeable

  94. stonefree says:

    @Stoker 20 March, 2017 at 6:07 pm
    The reason being that the closing time for nominations is 16.00 hours on the 29th

  95. Fred says:

    Lewis’s Foodhall sadly missed, sold cracking long salad rolls wi everything! Never heard of kippers in oatmeal, herrin in oatmeal aye!

  96. DerekM says:

    lol sorry about that i really insulted poor orangutan`s there

    As far as i hear he is back with tombstone tony and the gang which means up to no good but keeping a low profile.

    Coming up to an election even the yoons would be even more stark raving bonkers than they already are to bring him out.

  97. Robert Graham says:

    O/T sorry from the previous thread re STV .
    Vestas ( is that your real name ? ) anyway yer talkin MINCE , you might like to think yer clever , Go and ask real people you know the ones that actually vote if they get it , i guarantee out of a 100 you might get 1 yep one % , I dont care how many countries use it its still pish in the same way as the De Fuckup system at holyrood is .
    Dont you get it look at the posts with instructions on how to use it to best effect , if it has to be explained by so many its Pish .

  98. Ken500 says:

    @ crazycat.

    Can see what you mean. Obviously it is better to vote for the (supposed) Indy or even at extreme EU (supposed) supporter for better choice. Then can’t even decide between Labour or Tory for which one is worse, for obvious reasons. At a local level in coalition (together) they all have wreck the local economy, wasted £Million/Billions of public money etc are universally despised by everybody of every persuasion. Borrowed money, not supported public services properly etc.

    The system is also difficult to describe to other to understand in other wards/areas because the situation is every one is different. Often try to advise others who are not so interested in political affairs. Quite difficult to do in the circumstances.

    Would/have never, ever voted Tory because of Thatcher. Would at one time, long ago, veered to Labour but no candidate? Until the Iraqi war/Banking scandal. Would never, ever want to vote for them again and will never forget. It might have to be done in order it to help SNP/Independence cause in the long run. It will break every conviction held, but realise it might have to be done. Rather than just let others decide, which In other, not so dire circumstances, would have just been acceptable.

    It is a real challenge of conviction. Kind of have decided what to do. To vote for Party who have helped get legislation done. Although can’t stand any of them because of what they have done in the local area.

  99. Ken500 says:

    Cancelled SKy subscription a while ago. There was poor reception in any case. Poor service. There are plenty of alternatives in any case.

  100. James Barr Gardner says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    20 March, 2017 at 8:47 pm

    All that really remains for them to do is for the last one out to switch off the lights and heating and turn off the water at the main.

    Mind you I get the feeling they have just enough feelings of grievance and entitlement left to just leave everything on out of pure spite.

    I think there is no end to their vindictiveness, I would expect them to leave the taps running and a bag of postcrete down the cludgie.

  101. geeo says:

    Here is that nonsense poll from Sky News…

    Gems like…”the sky data survey of more than 2000 people with registered addresses in Scotland”…

    Or..”a nationally representative poll of people living in Scotland said…”

    Aye…ok then.

  102. twathater says:

    TBH you only have to look and listen to the windae lickin group of liebour reps to see why people are deserting them in droves

    Cummon honestly wid you consider the likes of kelly sarwar bailey kez and the rest to be the best Scotland can offer

    The reality is that the ordinary working class voters north and south are sickened and revolted by the theft of a party who used to represent them taken over by self serving egotists

    These people have to realise that this party no longer exists, it has been replaced by a party who GENUINELY believe in social inclusion and the inalienable RIGHT to determine their best interests and the way forward for Scotland and the Scottish people .

    We don’t have to be the victims of theft of our resources we can utilise these resplendent resources to benefit our own citizens and protect them from the parasitical pirates of conservatism

  103. heedtracker says:

    If you’re from Aberdeen, its really quite hard to imagine that the walking catastrofuck that is future Sir Wullie Young, might actually not be in charge of the ongoing wholesale destruction of Aberdeen,forever.

    Wullie’s great trick is blaming SNP Scots gov for all his very own catastrofucks and taking credit for anything good that SNP gov might have done.

    There is a huge teacher shortage in catastrofuck Wullie’s fiefdom, so Wullie “Don’t call me stupid” Young’s solution, has been to blow £100+ million on another white elephant office block, in a declining demand city, for office blocks. There is so little demand for office space in Aberdeen, Sir Wullie couldn’t get anyone to even build his monument to Sir Wullie, let alone rent the new dead space, So Wullie made ACC take all the risk for the giant office block, then forgot to tell anyone.

    The only outfit in Aberdeen that says they like Sir Wullie’s latest catastrophic white elephant of yoon, is neo fascist Voice of The North, the Press and Journal, who have been give a huge and dirt cheap deal by Sir Wullie, in his latest and spectacularly pointless splurge, for cheap rent. Meanwhile Aberdeen still has a huge teacher shortage.

    None of the above is made up.

    Then we come to the lunatic that is future Sir Barney Crockett OBE. Barney’s contribution to the 2014 indy campaign, was to blow over £30k of council tax payers money on a vote NO or else letter that all Aberdeen council tax payers received in their 2014 council tax demands. Barney explained this expense, and clear breach of, any concept of stealing tax payers money for his politics, by explaining that he had also banned all Scotland flags from any ACC building in Aberdeen, and everyone was grateful to him for this ban, as who wants the flag of the country the councillor actually lives in, actually to be seen by the people of Aberdeen,

    Then we come to the complete and utter fuck wit that is ACC’s, ah what’s the point.

  104. Robert Peffers says:

    @clan rossy says: 20 March, 2017 at 6:57 pm:

    ” … so from now on who ever mentions the labour party
    i shall reply back dont you mean the judas party.”

    On that way of doing, I have a young friend who has two daughters and a baby son.

    He has the two wee girls play a game when the family is in the car. This game is simple. Every time he, or his wife, says, “independence”, the first daughter to say, “Are we there yet”, gets a point.

    Every week the one with the most points gets a silver, (plastic really), cup as the champion for the week.

    Their wee lad is too young to take part yet.

  105. manandboy says:

    As the pressure mounts on Theresa May and her ToryUKIP Party, we can expect to see signs of cornered animal syndrome.

    This will certainly be the case as the Brexit negotiations reach the point at which Westminster realises that Scotland is going to regain it’s Independence. We can then expect Westminster to turn really devious and nasty as it’s preference for treachery kicks in.

    No crystal ball is required to know that Independence will draw spiteful revenge from The British Establishment. And don’t be surprised when we discover that England will attempt to retain all extra-regio UK territories in the North Sea – you know the ones, it’s where most of the oil is.

    Coming soon to a cinema near you.

  106. Brian Powell says:

    Tinto Chiel

    If you believe voters moved from SLabour on the basis of Independence alone, I’m not sure you have been watching Labour very closely over the last 6+ years.

  107. Vestas says:

    @Ken500 various times :

    Look mate with STV you just vote for who you want to. If you want to vote SNP #1 and SNP #2 then stop your prefs then do so. That’s your choice.

    However if you want to continue voting past that point you can perhaps do some good in terms of replacing a tory with someone else.

    STV is the fairest system yet devised for voting – and the system for transferring votes in these elections eliminates randomness. What that means is that you can’t vote for some duffer in round 1 then block vote in round 2 like in Australia.

    If you don’t understand this then please go read about it before commenting further as you’re only embarrassing yourself 🙁

    From your comments I think you believe FPTP is the only valid electoral system. It is in fact the worst electoral system unless you wish hegemonies to develop.

    STV is the future post-indy. Not the d’Hondt stuff although that’d make for a good mix for a second chamber – all on the same vote.

  108. crazycat says:

    @ Ken500

    No-one said it was going to be easy…..(:

    We can only do our best; I’m hoping there will be at least one candidate I can assign my lower preferences to.

  109. crazycat says:

    Ah, (: doesn’t make a sad face.
    Maybe I need a space ( :

  110. Feel_loon says:


    Getting Wullie Young out of Aberdeen is the single thing I’m most looking forward to in the upcoming elections
    Made Aberdeen a laughing stock

  111. louis.b.argyll says:

    Seen the list of most/least happy nations?

    Pretty sure the UK has sold weapons to the least happy ten on that list.

    Blair sold Tanzania a military radar system for 50 million quid..Just saying..

  112. crazycat says:

    Or even put the eyes at the top like a real face (duh)


  113. Rock says:

    Tinto Chiel,

    ““Malcolm Chisolm stepped down at the last SGE, he is no longer an MSP. Don’t think there are many like him left in Holyrood Slab.”

    Thanks, Brian, I didn’t realise that. He was unusual in being a decent sort and seemed quite unembittered towards the SNP.”

    You obviously did not hear or have forgotten Malcolm Chisolm’s contribution to the independence debate before the first referendum.

    He was venomously opposed to independence.

  114. Tam the Bam. says:

    Good Evening folks.

    I’m having a ‘wee rammy’ with a non-believer over on the ‘Exposing anti-independence bias on the BBC’ forum on F/Book….anyone got the Cuthberts and Richard Murphy/Tax Research links on GERS?….better still…join in and post there (I’m making little headway with this chap…he’s actually quoting Scotland in Union as his font of knowledge and truth!….Get the picture?

  115. JLT says:

    The Scottish Labour Party are lost. They have lost sense of their original ideology, which was based on Home Rule for Scotland while seeking better living conditions for the Scottish people and the nationalisation of industry and the radical restructuring of economic rewards.

    However, in 1931, they abandoned Scottish Home Rule since they saw greater power could be attained by having unions working together to help re-strengthen their cause after the failure of the Great Strike of 1926. In one sense, Scotland already blighted with poverty, poor housing and overcrowding, in their eyes, could foolishly go it alone, thus being forced to compete against a richer more industrialised England …or remain within the UK State (and hopefully) could see things improve by the machinations of the British State.

    While it can be said that living standards have gone up and poor housing has been tackled to a large degree, it took a century to do it, while leaving the Scottish state still dependent on the British State in both services and work, and poverty and poor housing still remain Scotland’s greatest problems.

    The problem for Scottish Labour is that throughout the last century, they had chances while in power, to look at some of Scotland’s worst poverty-stricken areas and do something about it. In certain areas …they have done nothing. We have Labour politicians and councillors who had promised change and to make things better. They didn’t and haven’t.

    When Labour became New Labour, they moved to the right, and it killed not only the key ethics of the Party, but it also betrayed its proud past history. Iraq was the catalyst when Scottish people walked away in droves as they realised that the Party no longer spoke for them, nor seemed to represent them. It was free market politics all the way.

    And now in 2017, they keep shouting out the same mantra of 1931; that only working together and rejecting nationalism will it bring forth a better United Kingdom. But it doesn’t help when the London based Party is a red-form of Conservatism where its key policies revolve around the Free Market, while at the same time, rejecting the very social policies that the Party was originally founded on (eradication of poverty, removing of slums and helping workers which would this help the national economy).

    As a prime example of that thought – when looking at Scottish Labour – remind me again as to how many Council Houses were built the last time they were in power? Was it 6?

    On judging both Scottish Labour, as well as the Labour Party itself, they have abandoned their original moral and ethical principles when they were first created as the ILP in the late 19th Century. They decided in the mid-1990s to re-model themselves as Tories and still yet, look to move further to the right if it means it can get them back into the hallowed halls of power. They took the country illegally to war in 2003 to which they have never apologised for. And the cherry on the cake was when the Scottish Branch of the Labour Party stood with the London Tories and gloated over half of the Scottish people when a higher dream was denied in September 2014.

    And still …they tell us to stick with them.

    simply …they are lost.

  116. Glamaig says:

    The Tory overall percentage is scary. I regard Labour generally as good people who just havent got it yet. Sad but alot of them would rather cut their own arm off than vote SNP. Even one I know who regards himself as Scottish and European but not British…

    Tories on the other hand are basically bastards.

    Re STV voting – I think it was Cadogan Enright on here who came up with the saying they use in Ireland – VOTE TILL YE BOAK.

    I would really struggle to put a cross beside a Tory, I have never done that in my life, but in my ward it would make sense to rank Tory (2nd last) above Labour (last) because its very important we get Labour out, and the Tories have no chance. Not sure I can do it though!

  117. John H. says:

    I must admit, SLAB have moved fast under Kezia. Unfortunately…

  118. Richardinho says:

    The Labour party are basically down to a core of tribalists and so there is no hope of them turning at any point in the future. Hard to see them attracting any significant new support in the future. It’s no coincidence that the people with most energy in the party are trolls like Hotherstall. Can’t see them lasting much longer to be honest.

    Then again if IR2 is successful, we’re into a whole new paradigm.

  119. punklin says:

    “It wouldn’t really matter if the Greens simply abstained from the new indyref bill, although obviously it would be better to have them onside” (Morag 4.38pm)


    “I doubt if the Greens will abstain on Wednesday” (Marcia 4.49pm)

    Surely first thing Nicola and co would have done before last week’s moves even contemplated would be to check that Green parliamentary support for indyref2 solid as a rock…

  120. Richardinho says:

    @Tam the bam

    “I’m having a ‘wee rammy’ with a non-believer”

    My serious advice is not to bother. You will never convert a troll by direct confrontation, you will only waste your time.

    A better strategy is to tackle the ‘not sures’ who surround them then let peer pressure take its course!

  121. Tinto Chiel says:

    “If you believe voters moved from SLabour on the basis of Independence alone, I’m not sure you have been watching Labour very closely over the last 6+ years.”

    I would have to agree with the last part, Brian: they repel me. I didn’t say that was the only factor in any case. I said, “If Labour embraced independence wholeheartedly they could gradually win back a significant number of the tens of thousands they lost to the SNP in 2014/15”.

    I frankly have no idea for sure what other considerations may have played a part in the crumbling of support for the party. There are plenty of possible factors but I think the big surge to the SNP may have been caused by Labour’s being the Tories’ human shields during the referendum, which disgusted a lot of people.

  122. Ken500 says:

    STV explains why the Councils are so badly run and the incumbents can’t be easily routed out. Monkeys and red rosettes. A cabel of total mind boggling crooks, who can’t be easily got rid. Teresa May is a total Tory criminal. A disgrace.

  123. harry mcaye says:

    Tam the bam – Mr Murphy’s website is

  124. Vestas says:

    @Glamaig 10:02 pm :

    “Re STV voting – I think it was Cadogan Enright on here who came up with the saying they use in Ireland – VOTE TILL YE BOAK.

    I would really struggle to put a cross beside a Tory, I have never done that in my life, but in my ward it would make sense to rank Tory (2nd last) above Labour (last) because its very important we get Labour out, and the Tories have no chance. Not sure I can do it though!”

    How many seats in the ward?

    You have to remember that in many wards that the two unionists will have been elected long before your (fractional) preference vote would ever be used.

    STV struggles to work with less than 5 seats. IMHO eight is a number which would better reflect the voters intentions. However in most cases the state has been horrified at the results (Australia being the poster child here) 🙂

    With the number of seats per ward being 4 max/ward(?) its very unlikely that your voting preferences would reach voting round four, never mind five. So its only your third preference which is likely to make a difference assuming two SNP candidates are standing.

    Think carefully about your third pref vote is my advice for most areas of Scotland. That’s probably the only one likely to make a difference if (AIUI) the maximum seats/ward is four.

    Take that advice or leave it, up to you 🙂

    I’m sure others will have their view too.

  125. stu mac says:

    @Iain Bell says

    late to this thread so may already have been said but it’s already been shown (by polls) that a good number of former NOs have moved to YES. Unfortunately a number of YESers with a strong dislike of the EU (though how they can construe that as being worse than Brexit neoliberal UK I don’t understand) but anyway YEs got the better of it but only by a few points so things are about 50/50 rather than the clear majority for Independence it would have been if the Anti-EU YESers hadn’t moved to NO.

  126. Dorothy Devine says:

    Stewartb , glad to have brought good memories – I am having a mental wander round the basement ,most enjoyable!

    Garles , thanks for that .I was wondering if I was paranoid and had imagined those accents!

  127. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Glamaig @ 22:02,

    I share your understanding and your dilemma. (You don’t actually need to give a last preference, BTW, since it defaults anyway.) It’s a definite strain to vote for any of the unionists here in Glasgow at least. (The choice might be easier elsewhere, of course.)

    It is crucially important to remove the current Labour administration, so they should be the last/null choice, I suppose.

    Mayhem has already clearly indicated that she is hoping to use the results of the local elections – an anticipated increase in the Tory vote as the above poll suggests – to justify stalling ScotRef. Nothing to do with local issues, just an implicit threat to deny our democratic rights. That’s a definite no-no (and for many other reasons too), so no preference for Ms Harrison’s wee mob either.

    I might have been willing to give the LibDem candidate a last nod, but in her election leaflet she makes a big issue of “the unity of the United Kingdom” – gone apparently are the days when the LibDems won local votes on bread-and-butter issues like fixing the roads. So like the Tories, they are pushing national issues. On the other hand, she also states “[we] will work with all parties”, so my choice there is still up in the air. That’s maybe just inside my boak limit, we’ll see.

    I don’t know who else is in the running – a Green almost certainly – so I’ll slot all the pro-indy ones like them in there somewhere. I’m pretty sure the Greens will vote for ScotRef on Wednesday, and if they do, they will have earned their fair due in return.

  128. stu mac says:

    @Giving Goose

    You describe perfectly my opinion of Kezia.

  129. Vestas says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland 10:27 pm :

    “It’s a definite strain to vote for any of the unionists here in Glasgow at least. (The choice might be easier elsewhere, of course.)

    It is crucially important to remove the current Labour administration, so they should be the last/null choice, I suppose.”

    Pick your third pref carefully Robert – assuming 2 x SNP standing in your ward.

    The prize here is Glasgow. The last bastion of SLAB. I can hear the shredders going now 😉

    Winning Glasgow makes all the unionist point scoring just noise.

    Vote whatever gets Glasgow out of Labour hands & into SNP hands Robert.

  130. harry mcaye says:

    In four twitter polls from local radio stations (Clyde, Tay, Forth and Northsound) 25,543 voted. The average Yes vote was 69.5%

    Add in STV Weather’s Sean Batty poll, which saw 21,636 respond, and the average increases slightly to 69.8%.

    Now online twitter polls are unlikely to attract many folk over the age of 50, but even allowing for that and folk voting in all five polls (equally as likely to be No voters), something definitely smells funny when all the official pollsters are telling us that the support for Independence lies somewhere between 43% and 50%.

  131. Tam the Bam. says:

    @Richardinho …10.09pm

    Woah!!!….I didn’t say he was a troll!…in fact he’s trying to get me to ‘see the light since I’m deluded’…No..its his sources ‘Scotland in Union’ whom he quotes as his source of irrefutable evidence.

  132. stu mac says:

    @JLT says:

    Think you mean “red in tooth and claw”, not red (as that would imply some form of socialism). Not having a dig (as I myself have often started to type something in my head and the actual typing came out wrong), just clarifying – I hope – for other readers.

  133. Cadogan Enright says:

    As an Irish politician with 40 years of experience with STV I am finding the debate here and on Scot Goes POP really frightening

    James is clearly absolutely correct – you use up your preferences right down to the bottom or risk majorities on councils or councils led BT Tories

    I strongly suspect that paid professional Yoons are on this site and on Scot goes Pop trying to damage the SNP and Greens and Yes in general by leading folk up the garden path

  134. stu mac says:

    JLT says:

    Just re-read your text and realise I read you wrong, muchos apologies. Still I think red in tooth and claw is an equally good description of both right wing parties.

  135. Robert Kerr says:

    @Vestas 10.40.


    Then SNP look at the books. Then serious crime polis. Then jail.

    I personally will vote SNP and Green only. You can’t transfer a vote if its not there. No votes for Britnats!. They will count them all and spin like dervishes!

  136. heedtracker says:

    Feel_loon says:
    20 March, 2017 at 9:49 pm

    Getting Wullie Young out of Aberdeen is the single thing I’m most looking forward to in the upcoming elections
    Made Aberdeen a laughing stock

    Aye Wullie’s one of the worst examples of Labour’s entrenchment of power in Scotland and probably the hardest to get shot of.

    Socialist worker Wullie’s a landlord millionaire in Aberdeen, with a very tasty portfolio of private buy to lets. A fair few wealthier professionals invest like this ofcourse in post Gordo Brown world red tory economics and Wullie’s certainly got his share of the Aberdeen market.

    But then you realise that ACC have not built any social housing in Aberdeen for over 40 years, right through the oil boom, that drew hundreds of thousands of migrant oil workers to Aberdeen and sent private rent costs rocketing.

    Or as Wullie wont say out loud, KERCHING!

    So today, they cant get public sector workers like teachers to move to the north east, due high cost private housing sector, but then Wullie splurges £100+ million on another Lab ACC white elephant, that everyone hates, with a real passion.

  137. stu mac says:

    @Robert Kerr
    As ChewinTheFat said, the shredders are churning full blast as we type here.

  138. Capella says:

    @ James Caithness 9.59 – interesting twitter thread. I too think it’s all about the city and hedge funds. They want London to be like Singapore. No regulation.

  139. manandboy says:

    Earlier today, I watched a video clip of Theresa May speak, it was some time last year, about the vital importance of staying in the EU, and then, another clip, more recently, about leaving the EU. Watching both speeches by the Prime minister one after the other but separated by months, it was noticeable that she sounded just the same.

    The conclusion I came to is that the EU isn’t actually a priority for Theresa May and she may even be indifferent to it and to the outcome of Brexit.
    Perhaps the EU doesnt impinge on her individual career prospects, or maybe she isnt actually interested in making a difference in people’s lives. Is Theresa May just an out and out careerist, driven by purely selfish ambition?

    And a voice spoke from the other side of the room and said, ‘Nut. She’s a maddie.’

  140. Ken500 says:

    Willy Young/Labour keep on destroying the City every time they get in.Helped by the Green (right hand) for remuneration and Office. Every time a SNP coalition have to sort out the mess and are succeeding. Majority in the City is completely content The City is being transformed for the better.

    Then W. Young comes back again. Builds up the debt and grotesque destruction of the City Centre. Lies and and totally mucks it up again, because the electorate result changes in two ward seats. i.e. LibDems student loan betrayal. Two seats changes to Labour and total destruction and traffic chaos etc. Happens as a result. Worse pollution in the City in the UK because of Labour assisted by Green. In total coalition. Right hand person without whose aid none of it would be happening. The City would be getting properly run and improving. Tories and LibDem involved as well.

  141. cearc says:

    Of course, any non-political party member, civic-minded yesser could stand for election on a single local issue.

    ie. Yes! and free bulky household waste uplift.
    Yes! and more street cleaning.
    Yes! and free sweeties for unicorns.

    Of course you’d have to be prepared to get elected!

  142. Ian Mackay says:

    On converting No voters…

    perhaps a technique by Blaise Pascal might help:

    “When we wish to correct with advantage, and to show another that he errs, we must notice from what side he views the matter, for on that side it is usually true, and admit that truth to him, but reveal to him the side on which it is false.

    He is satisfied with that, for he sees that he was not mistaken, and that he only failed to see all sides.

    Now, no one is offended at not seeing everything; but one does not like to be mistaken, and that perhaps arises from the fact that man naturally cannot see everything, and that naturally he cannot err in the side he looks at, since the perceptions of our senses are always true.”

    Not always easy to find even partial truth to start with some No voters though, unfortunately!

  143. Hamish100 says:

    Sky news, May and Davidson are more popular than our First Minister. What complete tosh. Did they attend the Tory party knees up in Tunbridge Wells.

    It is clear however that we should forget about Dugdale. Let’s expose Davidson for what she is.
    I’m too polite to write it all down.

    Davidson undermines the Scottish Parliament, she colludes with the enemies of Scotland representing the right wing UKIP Tory.They are one and the same.

  144. Ken500 says:

    Discussion on the internet. Brexit is a coup. To create a low taxation banking tax regime in the UK. The plan was formulated in advance. May and cohorts plan to dangerously crash out of the EU with no agreement on trade etc. Then blame the EU as the Tories always do, for the Tory failings. ‘It’s the EU’. When it has nothing to do with the EU. Her associates and husband Hedge Fund would go up £100Billion in value. While ordinary folk suffer and pick up the cost of the chaos. As per the usual mess. The poorer, vulnerable and everyone else paying the price for the Tory/Union excess. May’s lying rhetoric is just another lying con game.

    Hope Scotland is out of the EU by then. The folk reckoned the exit sham and storm out would happen pretty soon, This year. While there is still little time for the electorate to do anything about it.

  145. Ghillie says:

    Just wondering if we might see any Labour or even Tory MSPs break ranks and vote for Independence Referendum?

  146. defo says:

    Is there a smell of Donaldas fragrance here ?
    Just a hint?
    Have they accepted the inevitable? Hmmm.I wish…

    Little presents a fait accompli regarding the idiocy of leaving the worlds largest single market, but we’re let down by a wee bit revisionism,too much assertion, and diversion onto the old chestnut’s of currency and ‘deficit’. Which have almost nixie to do with the topic of the programme, and comes over like old auntie is getting pretty desperate already.

    Re. not being nice to the fuckers, like NS sensibly asks of us…Nah. Soz.
    Truthie looks utterly delusional in her two goes at it here. Pure mad mentalist, if ever I saw one.And I should know.It’s not only vampires who have an aversion to the looking glass.
    I’m going to really enjoy watching the hardcore lying yoonatic bastards crash and burn over the next couple of years, but then hey, we need balance, and there’s not exactly a dearth of nice peeps on our side anyhoo. 🙂

  147. K1 says:

    Def recommend anyone in Aberdeen to read this alternative legacy report, the fella that produced this has a crowd funder on the go to get hard copies made, read and share widely: blood boiling, save for morning if ye value yer blood pressure…

    Crowd funder:

  148. Cadogan Enright says:

    Deeply troubled by people coming on here and on Scot goes Pop to argue that STV preferences should not be used all the way down to the bottom of the card

    James on Scot goes Pop is right – just keep on with your preferences putting your friends top and your worst enemies at the bottom

    I have 40 years of experience on STV system – James on Scot goes Pop is totally correct – vote till u boak

  149. Richardinho says:

    @Tam the Bam

    If there’s a chance of a conversion- go for it! 🙂

  150. Big Jock says:

    Fake news about Davidson and May being more popular than Sturgeon. They got 22% of vote share Snp got 46%. Tory conference was empty Snps sold out.

    They are trying to create fake news and delude people. The truth happens at the ballot box not dodgy fake polls.

    Davidson is toxic and dangerous.

  151. Stoker says:

    K1 (11:31pm),

    Not trying to put a dampner on your links but is that a fresh push for support for that particular cause because I seem to remember, at some point in the previous 2-years, seeing it posted here on Wings. I’m also sure I reposted them to help with the push, either that or I’m losing it faster than I think. 😉

  152. Ken500 says:

    Give up SKy subscription for their lies. Hit them where it hurts. There are plenty (cheaper) alternatives. Not difficult. Just can’t believe their deliberate lies, They know they are lying. They even admit it. No where is there any evidence pro rata Davidson and May are more popular. Obviously Nicola has no mandate in England/Wales neither has Davidson. They try and include a UK Poll element which is quite ridiculous, when she has a mandate in Scotland of % of 4Million people. Then they try and include a non percentage representative view of a % of 45Million more people. A total unrepresentative joke. Like comparing apples and pears. SKy are either really intellectual lacking or just being deliberately obtrusive.

    Half the time SKy are trolling trying to wind folk up. To increase there viewing figures to get more advertising revenues. Don’t give them the chance. Switch off or stop subscription for their revenue stream, it really bothers them. They are never off the phone or trying to make contact through literature/with discount offers. People have to say they have moved to get rid of their nuisance. Murdoch is behind May’s Brexit plans. In Scotland where her mandate is Nicola has 50% support. Davidson has 20%. May has even less in Scotland. Now is really getting despised. With her condescending manner and lies. Folk are finding her out.

    In Scotland comparisons with any population % comparisons are irrelevant. Alex Salmond, Nicola and Co are well respected in many parts of the UK. They get great support from many quarters. A lot of admiration. There is even an SNP branch in London and other parts of the UK. Some of them would like to move to Scotland to stay. Or visit often they like it so much. Scotland has friends all over the world. A 40 Million disporia. Well respected in Europe as well.

  153. Stoker says:

    Newbies & Lurkers,

    You may want to avoid supporting the BUM bandits and their cause by not clicking on the direct links in the post above at 11:49pm by ‘geeo’.

  154. Hamish100 says:

    Let’s concentrate on the UKIP Tories and their policies for low wages, no benefits, no NHS economy. Davidson supports Osborne 3 jobs.

  155. Valerie says:


    That link about Dowson is very worrying. I know all about him and Britain First.

    That’s a rallying cry to unionist thugs to descend on Scotland. The police will know exactly what he is up to, trying to establish a hate base here.

  156. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Arbroath1320: “Surely we must be reaching the point when even the most devout of devoutest Labour members/supporters will say “enough is enough” and walk away…”

    Well, if my Godmother is anything to go by, then that point has been well and truly reached. She was – until about last summer – a devout and very active Labour member who I never thought would turn her back on them; but she did. She was one of their VERY faithful.

  157. Legerwood says:

    Capella says:
    20 March, 2017 at 11:00 pm
    @ James Caithness 9.59 – interesting twitter thread. I too think it’s all about the city and hedge funds. They want London to be like Singapore. No regulation.””

    I am surprised that you say Singapore has no regulation of its banking and financial sector.

    It seems to me that they have quite a strong regulatory framework including anti- money laundering regulations which they seem to have taken the lead initiating the regulations in this area for Asia


  158. G4jeepers says:

    Pure unmitigated pish here
    Paywalled so not full artice but you get the gist.
    They need to fork out in some other Scottish picture, they use the same one in nearly every article now. Bams.

  159. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ geeo – Never heard of that guy before, and seriously doubt the viewer numbers for his crappy ‘alt-right’ network. Oh, hang on…he’s a millionnaire?!! *swoon* Wowowee WOW! It’s happening, go straight to DEFCON 5 folks.

  160. K1 says:

    Stoker which link? The Aberdeen legacy one? Huv a posted another link…haud oan tae a check… naw Stoker that’s a bonefide link to the crowd funder direct from Rev’s twitter feed. I’d read the guy’s report last week, it’s a genuine take down of Aberdeen’s council record, as I recall he cited rev’s wee black book as inspiration for his, in essence for his project to expose the extraordinary corrupt practices involved in that council’s day tae day running and the financial whizz they’ve indulged in pulling the wool over the eyes of the people of Aberdeen. 😉

  161. ben madigan says:

    @ken 500 who wrote “The folk reckoned the exit sham and storm out would happen pretty soon, This year. While there is still little time for the electorate to do anything about it”.

    This is my main worry. It’s the obvious way for Westminster to go – crash out, forestall any UK break-up, get the hard brexit they want and hold onto the country etc.

    The UK-EU talks may not get to autumn 2018 – I hope the SNP has a plan and Scotland is ready to win a referendum at 6 weeks notice, whenever it’s called

  162. K1 says:

    Right, I’ve listened to all the input re elections in May and decided to write to the people ah know explaining what to do on the ballot.

    I’m going to post this here and welcome all corrections. Ah want to be able to tell people in the most direct and straight forward language how tae proceed. So jump in if am talking crap.

    ‘The message is clear:

    Vote to you boak.

    Here’s how. Vote for your ‘friends’ all the way down the ballot paper and keep your enemies last.

    Look at who are the candidates for your ward, names will be released from 29th March.

    Be wary of any candidates under ‘independent’ label as they could be ex Tory or Labour.

    If you want SNP councillors, depending on number standing in ward vote for them 1, 2, 3 etc. If you are a supporter of Scotland’s self determination next place Greens 4. Any other Indy supporting parties like Rise and SSP 5 and 6 on the ballot. If you are a Green voter, use your first preference for them then fill next preferences for SNP candidates. Any other Indy supporting parties then follow. If there are no Indy supporting parties follow next step:

    Now we do not want Red or Blue Tories in our councils. But here’s the thing we have to give them a position on the ballot paper as it has been pointed out if we don’t we effectively abstain and potentially allow the Tories (red yellow and blue) to gain a place in the councils.

    So start with the least of the worst Yellow (Libdem), Blue (Tories) then lastly (Red) Labour.

    If you can’t bring yourself to vote (Blue) Tory, that’s okay don’t do it. The main objective is to remove as many Labour councillors from our wards and effectively alter the fundamental makeup of our councils. For independence supporters especially, whether we believe it or not these council elections will be a reflection of our constitutional choice as well as a weathervane denoting the direction of travel we want for our communities going forward, we need to protect ourselves from the austerity driven agenda of an almost permanent Tory Westminster government for the potential remainder of our lifetimes and our lines of defence have to be in place in every tier of our governance structures to enable us to protect ourselves and our communities until such times as we become an independent country again.

    Here is James Kelly (not him) our polling guy on independence side explaining how the STV ballots work and why we need to list as many preferences as we can on our ballots.

  163. Col says:

    Cancel your sky TV and contact them explaining that they do not represent Scotland in any way shape or form. If you have the time also find out who advertises on their channels and tell them that their pro tory and anti-scottish agenda has forced you to give up on sky.

  164. Valerie says:

    Very good piece in FT, about how the unholy trinity have normalised the expectations on Brexit since the vote.

    When you realise we started thinking it might mean keeping the single market, to gradually where we are now, crashing out, it really does seem like we could end up in the tax haven.

  165. Valerie says:

    @K1 & Cadogan

    That’s good enough for me.

    Vote til ye boak!

  166. crazycat says:

    Archived version of Guardian article about Jim Dowson:

  167. Ghillie says:

    Teresa’s boys forgetting to tell Scottish Government 29th is day article 50 is to be triggered is bound to be worth a few extra Yes votes = )

    And a few more nails in Westminster’s already well decorated coffin.

    They are such nasty wee buffoons.

  168. Stoker says:


    Aye, just seen it on WOS twitter before turning in for the night. The guys certainly been pushing the idea for a wee while because I have posted links before to help promote the initiative. Perhaps he ran a wee crowdfund to help him get the idea up and running?

    Anyway, it’s a damn good initiative and I’ll do my bit to help promote it. We really need to take control of our cities and clear out yesterday’s men (and women). Get the magnificent 7 on side and independence shall be ours. 😉

    G’night troops!

  169. Still Positive says:

    I can honestly say the SNP conference in Aberdeen showed that our young people are the key to an independent nation.

    They were absolutely wonderful in many of the debates.

  170. yesindyref2 says:

    @K1: “Be wary of any candidates under ‘independent’ label as they could be ex Tory or Labour

    … unless you know they’re pro-indy or harmless. But in any case put them above Labour and Tory”.

    In my ward there’s one definitely pro-Indy and another one who’s a bit of a laugh (ex-editor wee paper). Even the 2nd one goes above Alex Gallagher.

  171. Ghillie says:

    Re how best to lay out voting preferences in May Council election, I am planing to take advice from my local SNP Branch with particular regard to our local line up of candidates. Am hoping they will have a good idea of what any ‘independents’ etc are like.

    Am very grateful to Scot Goes Pop and all the posters here discussing this.

    It is vitally important that we can all vote effectively and with confidence for the outcome we really want.

  172. clan rossy says:

    my dad used to say a blind man could see better
    with his ears and dodge a bullet much quicker than
    a man with 100% vision.

    thats yer tory and judas party fer ye 100% tunnel vision
    looking down to the chasm of doom and gloom and all its

    thank fukc we have a choice but im afraid to say a few
    of my workmates are going down with them they wont listen
    just put them down as a lost cause, members of the judas party.

    hell mend them.

  173. K1 says:

    Aye yesindyref2′, it’s why ah suggest checking out candidate list from 29th March…hopefully as it gets more nuanced near the time wi candidate names from specific wards we’ll keep each other informed re the merits of particular ‘indepedent’ ones. And yes I’ll insert ‘independents’ above yellow blue red depending on their ‘political stances’. Cheers. Amendment carried by acclaim 😉


    Aye maybe so Stoker, I don’t know but keen to encourage all from Aberdeen to have a wee read…eye popping stuff for sure.

  174. DerekM says:

    Wow this is shocking.

    All you youngsters go tell your grandfather and grandmother they will be paying £1500 a year for that spare bedroom in their ex council house they got to buy cheap.

    And the old saying rings true – Never trust a tory.

  175. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT Martin McGuiness has died . Last time I saw him on telly he looked pretty poorly but I didn’t expect this so soon.

    I know a lot of folk will be thinking “good’ but I’m not .

  176. Andy Anderson says:

    If you read the business news (not the headline stuff)you will get a very clear indication that the negative Brexit effects have already started. Even the BBC the other day stated this mentioning the drop in real wages as part of the mix. As this information gets worse the media will report it more helping our cause. We all know this fact but perhaps do not realise the change is now underway. In all this gloom is good information about our economy.
    Slab and the conservative vote in Scotland will suffer and of course help us. We still need to get out there and talk though.
    Nice to read all your comments.

  177. DerekM says:

    Ah on further investigation it would seem it only applies to social housing well that is better right no it is not.

    Another tax on the poor and less fortunate by a heartless government bent on creating social inequality.

  178. Andy Anderson says:

    Sad about martin McGuiness. he did a good job in Stormont.

  179. Ken500 says:

    Why doesn’t the SNP put up more candidates in the council elections to hover up the extra SNP votes i.e. 1st 2nd presence votes which are discarded and thrown in the bucket. To get more SNP candidates elected to the Council to have a total overall majority?

  180. DerekM says:

    Ah look it seems it is only for English regions now i wonder what is stopping them doing it in Scotland.

    Or are they and just cant be bothered telling us again.

    Anybody got any ideas? lol

  181. Nana says:

    Early Day Motion submitted today highlighting UK’s obligations under the United Nations Charter to support the right of self-determination.

    Death threat SNP MP Dr Lisa Cameron’s home fitted with alarms and panic buttons

    Nicola Sturgeon’s influence leaves May in a bind

  182. Nana says:

    Why the Great Repeal Bill will, in truth, be the Great Whitehall Power Grab

    What kind of divorce [Brexit] clean or messy

    UN asks UK to suspend work on Hinkley Point

  183. Ken500 says:

    Pensioners on low fixed incomes down £30 a week without mitigation. That should start to concentrate some elderly folk’s mind. Scottish taxpayers pay Scottish pensioner’s (UK Gov) pensions. A chance to mitigate under SNP Holyrood/Independence budget. Make different policies choices. Along with all the other elderly care help the Scottish SNP Gov make. Prescriptions, bus pass travel, social care help etc.extra NHS funds. Good target care levels. NHS support.

    It’s started, as threatened, the Tory Unionists Brexiteers are going after the pensioners. They are the next cohort to attack. May has not locked pension increases to cost of living increases. Plus years of increased Gov pension payment delays. Taking the rug and support, from under older women’s feet. Get it out there. Teresa May and Tories/Unionists have started attacking vulnerable pensioners and their rights. Even worst than Thatcher. Another clone. Betrayed their promises.

  184. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    Quite nice today, although the wind is bitterly cold. Thank you.Kettle’s on!
    Here’s a wee link for you.

    Peace Always

  185. DerekM says:

    Jings and here is the weather forecast for the forth valley – oh no it is trying to snow.

  186. Fred says:

    Kezia fighting back! appears outside Westminster in a tartan scarf……..that’s it!

  187. Hamish100 says:

    Ken500 says:
    21 March, 2017 at 7:29 am
    Why doesn’t the SNP put up more candidates in the council elections to hover up the extra SNP votes i.e. 1st 2nd presence votes which are discarded and thrown in the bucket. To get more SNP candidates elected to the Council to have a total overall majority?

    Simple really. Some of the current Councillors are worried they get knocked out in place of the 3rd candidate. This comes before winning a council. I know in Ayrshire and other areas there is MSP interference to ge their folk into the council. This will cause problems for any incumbent leader or shadow snp council leader. We should not allow us to be a new Labour Party . The fact is some current Councillors would prefer independents – usually ex labour Tory to stand in order all SNP votes got to them rather then split the 1st preferences away from them. I

    Self preservation. SNP HQ are complicit in this.
    Anyway the bigger fight for our self determination is gearing up.

  188. Hamish100 says:

    Indyr ref 2

    I know of the one pro Indy independent candidate from my pals who know of him.
    It appears he runs down the SNP and the 2 SNP candidates continually. Just because someone smiles at you doesn’t mean they like you. One strong SNP candidate the other very weak. Let’s hope it works out but I suspect Gallagher will get in 1 SNP 1 Tory and the 2 faced independent.
    Snp loses out.

  189. Jim says:

    Quote Wings

    “Pay attention when a Unionist and a Yesser are on at the same time. Note how often it happens. We let them speak, they interrupt constantly.”

    This was interview on GMS involving Patrick Harvie Adma Tomkins.
    What I would like to add is that the first news summary had Tomkins actually talking and Harvie’s part was read out by the Newsreader.
    Subsequent news summaries have had Tompkins talking and nothing from harvie spoken or quoted.

  190. Effijy says:

    I don’t want to see violence on our streets, and I count Ghandi as one of the greatest men who ever lived, as he defeated the great British/English Empire with peaceful
    protest and arguments that could not be denied, however I do take offence to people calling Nelson Mandela and Martin McGuiness terrorists.

    Their countries had been taken over by Colonialists, their resources stolen, and their people suppressed, abused, and murdered.

    I recall the story of Steven Biko who fought for Freedom and an end to apartheid, who was to become one of so many protestors who fell down prison stairs and died?

    The prison has such dangerous stairs that thousands died by “accident” while in custody.

    The word terrorist belongs to the British Army in India, it belongs to the White South African Police and Prison Guards, and it applies to the Westminster Government who refuses true governance to Scotland’s indigenous people.

  191. Nana says:


    Good morning. Yum yum sizzling links for breakfast look delicious. Not a bad day here, at least it’s dry.

    Bloody unionists gearing up to trash Scotland, will be hard to take. I’m not going to watch the debates, too much of a risk to my blood pressure going through the roof.

    One more link

  192. Sinky says:

    @Jim says and to think 70 Tory MPs have complained about BBC bias over Brexit that was nothing compared to their Indy Ref1 coverage.

    Great front page in The National to-day which needs to be seen.

    Also good article on GERS

  193. DerekM says:

    For some reason the TV cartoon yoons be terrified of the greens i wonder why.

    It is incredible how casually they fling about that word mandate it is like they have no concept of how a mandate works.

    Big clue yoons first you get elected to government or your “mandate” is only good for bog paper.

  194. Jim says:


    @Jim says and to think 70 Tory MPs have complained about BBC bias over Brexit that was nothing compared to their Indy Ref1 coverage.
    This is incredible, I am still listening to the show and Harvie has been airbrushed from the subsequent News Summaries.

  195. Smallaxe says:


    Spot on, and W/Minsters still at it, they have had a lot of practice.

    Peace Always my Friend

  196. Jim says:

    It’s the 4th news summary and they have Patrick Harvie actually talking, I wonder do they read wings, lol.

    I hope Patrick Harvie isn’t a vain man, hoping to hear his own voice but he is in for a helluva shock.

  197. Smallaxe says:


    I thought I’d send you some links for a change.

    Peace Always

  198. ronnie anderson says:

    I think we’ll be adding another event at the BBC BIAS PROTEST on Sunday 26th March, wait for it, Best SNOWMAN/WOMAN/DUG/ CAT competition .

    All Snow used must be re cycle able or this will lead to Disqualification. There will be no appeals on any decisions made.

  199. Glamaig says:

    They put the unionists on earlier when more people are driving to work. Anybody starting at 8:30 wouldnt have heard Harvie.

  200. Macart says:

    Yoonstream media attempting a number on the Greens.

    Heh. They’re not very bright are they? Simple arithmetic 101 – They cannot win the vote, so they attempt narrow the vote by sidelining the Greens (Like that’ll happen). They have no singular or collective mandate of their own, so they attempt to reframe (lie) about the nature of government and mandate.

    They do however have the yoonstream media who, as ever, are only too willing to aid in political misdirection. Case in point, the horrendous Sky coverage over the weekend and dear old auntie most days of the week. The Tomkins/Harvie debacle on radio this morning merely the latest serving of a cold dish.

    Facts are fact though. The arithmetic is simple in that ALL unionist parties together cannot prevent the SNP, on its own, carrying the vote. The SNP form the party of government in a parliament based on PR system and the motion tabled was expressly included in a manifesto pledge.

    They have the ethical, moral and legal right and crucially the obligation, to carry through that pledge.

    If they are still set to bang on about mandates however, its worth noting that in my lifetime we’ve gone to war twice on mandates well below the SNPs 46%. Right now Scotland is in the process of having its EU membership forcibly removed on the result of a consultative referendum which was instigated by a PM who enjoyed only 36-7% of the vote.

    That is all. 🙂

  201. Jim says:


    So people get to hear one voice, the Unionist one.
    They say there is no bias at the BBC; they are doing a great job of disproving this.

  202. DerekM says:

    Oh my god that tax is no more than a private landlord grab of what is left of the social housing stock in England.

    It is a tax designed to move pensioners out of the 2-3 bedroom council houses they have lived in all their adult lives.

    Buy it or get out?

  203. Ken500 says:

    @ Ronnie Anderson + Chic

    Drop dead brilliant. ‘Donada wears yer viewers’. Misreporting Scotland. Excellent. Hilarious.

  204. Luigi says:

    Sigh, here we go again. Very loud Tories, forever on the BBC, telling us that Scotland does not want another referendum and Nicola Sturgeon as no mandate to hold one.

    Well, I don’t think Scotland exactly wanted a BREXIT referendum either, and definitely did not want to leave the EU, but Hey Ho we are where we are, so the jocks can like it our lump it, I suppose. Back in the box we go, thank you very much.

    And as regards the question of mandate. WHAT???? This all coming from a Tory party with one MP in Scotland, who happens to be our governor secretary. Some manadate that eh. If it was not so serious and insulting, it would be hilarious.

    Tory Brass Necks – I’m getting seriously fed up with the lot of them.

  205. Legerwood says:

    Story about Brian a Wilson in today’s Herald. Apparently he spoke at a fringe meeting during Labour in Scotland’specifically Spring conference about the Nationalists importing sectarian language from NI. Unionist seemed to be the word he identified as sectarian.

    That is the gist of it. Made the front page. Sorry cannot give link – pay wall.

  206. mike d says:

    O/t Martin mcguiness rip.

  207. Smallaxe says:

    ronnie anderson says:

    “Best SNOWMAN/WOMAN/DUG/ CAT competition”.

    What about adding Peter and Dan Snow, without Snowballs of course and using only Yellow Snow, or am I just talking a lot of Pish?

    Peace Always

  208. On the day Martin McGuinness passes away, Brian Wilson, the Tony Blair New Labour Neo Conservative chancer who has had his fingers in so many very lucrative pies that he must have ten hands, tries to poison the Independence Debate by dragging fucking Ulster into it. That will sit well with Torrance the blabbermouth rabble rouser who is now BBC Scotland’s permanent Unionist expert on everything.
    If we call folk who want to remain a colony of Tory England ‘Unionists’, or as I prefer ‘Yoons’, because for some reason it gets on their tits, we are just like the psychopathic murderers of Northern Ireland, you know the type, whose praises are sung from the terraces of Parkhead and Ibrox every week.
    Wilson must surely have heard some of the poison and murderer-glorifying ditties coming from the slopes of his own club. This man is a fucking director of Celtic.
    He is also a poisonous little troublemaker.
    To equate the Self Government movement in Scotland, which now numbers in the millions with sociopaths blowing up innocents in Belfast and Derry takes a special kind of evil poisonous mind.
    Wilson, fuck off. You are an obscenity.
    Of course his hatred of Self Determination and the EssEnnPee in particular has nothing to do with his business interests in nuclear power. Of course not.
    He joins Jim The Green Brigade, Professor Adam WATP Tomkins, and Murdo The Queen’s Eleven Fraser in that vicious bigoted Yoon Tory band of Scotland haters.
    WE shall never be divided, and your snidey wee ‘Ulsterisation’ comments serve only to strengthen our resolve to get rid of his type of ProudScotsButs who would rather that their country continue as an English Establishment colony that decide its own fate.
    He is beneath contempt.
    Of course it’s what we expect from Herald Britland these days.
    Stir up the old Proddy Kafflick thing.
    Independent Scotland. No country for old bigots and psychopaths.

  209. mike d says:

    Great post jack.

  210. Capella says:

    Excellent explanation that Scotland can be a successful independent country from and Irish economist via RTE. Truly eye opening compared to the dross we are treated to via the BBC 5 mins:

  211. galamcennalath says:

    Jack Collatin says:

    Independent Scotland. No country for old bigots and psychopaths.

    For some Yoons, no gutter is deep enough. They will try anything, absolutely anything to retain their so-called Union.

    And to what avail? Just suppose all their fearmongering actually stops, or later wins ScotRef. Do they think they have solved the issue? Do they think they will make us go away?

  212. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Wilson, like “EggMan” Murphy, has his own comfortable seat in the centre of the main stand at Celtic Park. I don’t know his religion, but, given he is a Celtic director, I have my suspicions.

    To these people, whose religion tends to come wrapped in green and white hoops, “Unionist” or “Unionism” are bad words – so when they, who support the continuation of this unequal union between England and Scotland are called “Unionists”, they tend to lose it.

    In their eyes, they cannot be Unionists, because “Unionists” are of the opposite religion, they are evil, wear orange collarettes and revere the Queen.

    Doesn’t fit with their self-image, and they cannot handle it.

  213. G H Graham says:

    Scotland “could be independent”

    Lord King (Ex Gov of Bank of England)


    including an almost reasonable comment on Scotland’s finances.

  214. Robert Kerr says:

    Prof Richard Wyn Jones piece in the Irish Times is well worth reading.


  215. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Capella @ 9.41am

    Watched your DAvid McWilliams clip on RTE. He was allowed to speak, uninterrupted apart from clarification-seeking intrusions, for over five minutes.

    Had it been BBC Shortbread, Brewer or whoever would have been constantly interrupting from about 15 seconds in.

  216. galamcennalath says:

    Stinky says

    … The National … good article on GERS

    It is. There are different ways of looking at how bad, inaccurate, and useless GERS is, but this particular comment hits the nail on the head …

    ” ….. GERS has to be treated properly, with deep suspicion.

    The chance that Scotland makes a deficit of the scale it suggests is remote. It is exceptionally unlikely that eight per cent of the population make 17 per cent of the UK deficit.”

  217. galamcennalath says:


    Apologies! My iPad’s spelling modification cast doubts on your personal hygiene! 🙁

  218. Desimond says:

    @Socrates MacSporran


  219. Valerie says:

    I think we need to now acknowledge we are entering into guerrilla warfare period, when the a characterisation of independence is constantly painted as insurrection and violent.

    It’s going to run and run to compare it to Ulster, regardless of what we say otherwise.

  220. Macart says:

    @Jack Collatin

    Yes, Mr Wilson’s tack is particularly repugnant and abusive. Traits Mr Wilson is not unfamiliar with.

    How and ever, even on the most cursory of investigations, his argument holds precisely zero water. A simple glance at the publicised supporters of the political union is all it takes. Public record being what it is and the interwebby pretty much reaching into every corner of society there is no place to hide that support either.

    Mr Wilson’s and indeed Mr Torrance’s arguments are dangerous, reckless and IMO dishonest in the extreme. They are very much of the omelette and eggs variety of political debate. I very much doubt if collateral damage to public welfare or safety crosses their horizon.

    A win is a win with such an ideology. How you win? Not so much.

  221. Capella says:

    @ Socrates – should have said RTE video is from Dr Paul Monaghan’s twitter feed which Nana linked to upthread.

    @ Legerwood 12.19 – apologies, I didn’t mean that Singapore has no regulation. I meant that the City doesn’t want EU regulation AND that they want to be like Singapore with a large hinterland.
    Bad grammar!

  222. starlaw says:

    Many years ago I watched a lecture given by the then Irish President Mary Robinson from the McDonald centre on Skye. As she related Ireland and Scotlands historical histories the camera picked out a Young Brian Wilson who looked very uncomfortable as he sat on his hands, very red faced with a fit of the shakes. My outstanding memory of Brian Wilson.

  223. Undeadshaun says:

    Dont know if anyone has posted this yet..

    Far right ulster unionist millionaire is backing indepenence.

    Dont think i agree with his views, given that he is ex bnp, britain first and orange order.

    He is also behind alt news sites that were pro trump and anti clinton

    Says 30 years of tory rule is one of his reasons for changing his views.

  224. Breeks says:

    Silly question I should know the answer to, but does Westminster produce GERS for England?

    I don’t mean UK wide, or residual figures, I mean a like for like exercise to allow straight comparison from one to the other, Revenue and Expenditure in Scotland vs England considering the precise same protocols.

    I don’t have much time for GERS, but it occurs to me a years GERS statistics are only ever compared to previous years. Not to excuse the figures, but at least that ticks the “like for like” box, but I don’t recall seeing them compared on a like for like basis for England.

  225. Capella says:

    Far right ulster unionist millionaire is backing indepenence.
    Don’t believe it. Probably some bizarre smear fest being cooked up. Wouldn’t touch it with a bargepole.

  226. Ali says:

    So the Labour vote overall is the same as the percentage of “no” voters who will vote SNP

  227. galamcennalath says:

    This article highlights the huge gulf between Unionism in the non-English parts of the UK, and in England itself …

    ” Theirs [English unionists] is rather a United Kingdom regarded, in essence, as a “Greater England”. Local differences with this Greater English state can be tolerated, but it is toleration within limits. “

    … the academic who write this totally understands the reality of the UK.

  228. John says: O/T , but I am really baffled as to why this petition is taking so long to reach 100,000 signatures .The “say no to independence ” has 200,000 signatures and is being presented to parliament .With 100,000 SNP members , I would have thought this petition would have walked it !.PS , I do concede that the “no” poll was probably much more UK wide , but even so .

  229. One_Scot says:

    John, to be fair I don’t think people give a crap about these petitions any more, all that now really matters is the #ScotRef petition, AKA the next Scottish Independence referendum, everything else is just a side show.

  230. Training Day says:

    So just over a week in we’ve had:

    – growing comparisons with Ulster
    – embodying a cause in the shape of one person who can be demonised and painted as unrepresentative, a la Salmond
    – hysterical screeching about lack of mandates despite the mandate being explicit
    – ludicrous ‘polls’ which tell us that May and Harrison are more popular than the FM
    – ‘polls’, right on cue after the SNP conference, that tell us that support for independence has fallen
    – deliberate and brazen misrepresentation of the FM’s words on Sky news and elsewhere
    – a call in a national newspaper for the FM to be executed
    – all couched in a framework of too wee (biggest market down south), too poor (non-existent ‘deficit’), too stupid (WATP Tomkins says so, so there)

    This must be the positive campaign for the Union we’ve been waiting for.

  231. Ken500 says:

    Good night and good bye. Martin. Who stood up to State sponsored inequality and injustice.

  232. Vestas says:

    @John 10:37 am :

    “ O/T , but I am really baffled as to why this petition is taking so long to reach 100,000 signatures”

    I am really baffled why you think anyone in the SNP/voting SNP/Yes would waste their time petitioning Westminster for anything?

    Nobody cares about pretendy petitions which will be ignored anyway.

  233. Ken500 says:

    It’s got to the stage it doesn’t matter who supports IndyRef2. All are welcome and appreciated whoever they are and from where ever they are based in the world. All welcome. Thanks for the support.

  234. Bob Mack says:

    Interesting that a Unionist who like a stick of rock has “loyalist” written all the way through his core wants to promote indy.

    The reason I think is because we all know that the last indy was a very civic affair and it would not suit the Unionist narrative if it remains so. Enter therefore Mr Downing and his media machine presenting a side of civic Nationalism more in keeping with what the Unionists would claim our movement to be.

    This guy is NO nationalist. He is an agent provocateur. It is one of the oldest tricks in the Unionist book. We treat him like we would treat a poisonous reptile. Arms length.

  235. galamcennalath says:

    Petitions. I’ve signed a few ones. All others I write off as simply harvesting names, addresses and emails.

    The ones may get discussed, then ignored. When did one last achieve anything?

    I suspect if they are non partisan eg ‘create more pedestrian crossings’, ‘so-and-so should get justice’, etc., they may get somewhere.

    Any issue where there is a split among voters will be ignored. Elections, referendums, and the parliamentary process are the mechanism for dealing with such issues.

    The two yes or no to ScotRef will definitely be ignored IMO.

  236. I posted this earlier on WGD. I know that you and Paul are required reading among the ‘Yoons’ (fuck you, Brian Wilson)
    If only one Labour MSP defies the three line whip.

    Today, the Scottish Government begins a two day debate on a motion to call for a Referendum on Self Determination on the eve of Theresa May’s Cabal triggering Article 50, and dragging the UK out of the EU, against the overwhelming decision of the People of Scotland.
    I address this to the 24 Labour MSPs.
    Alex Rowley, are you prepared to side with Ruth Davidson who now demands that young mothers with two children in receipt of benefits must prove that she was the victim of rape in order to get CT allowance for a third child, because Ruth Davidson has restricted Welfare Payments to families of two children to free up money to reward the rich with a 5% tax break?
    Jenny Marra, are you prepared to side with Professor WATP Tomkins, the man who inexplicably is allowed to hold down his University post, while trousering £1200 a week as a ‘back door’ unelected MSP, and who has introduced the Bedroom Tax to Pensioners on Pensions Credits. Their pension has been cut, and they either face eviction because they can’t afford to pay rent, or starve and freeze, to meet the rent?
    Jackie Baillie, who incredibly has been trundling around in Holyrood since 1999, and who blamed the rise in child poverty in Scotland from 220,000 t0 260,000 on the SNP Government, is siding with Jackson Carlaw, who is right behind the Rape of Scotland during the Clegg Cameron five years, or the Cameron/ May Austerity Rob The Poor, Reward The Rich policy, tens of billions in cuts in Welfare, public service jobs, and LA Funding? But somehow the Great Rotund One blames the SNP ?
    I despair.
    Neil Findlay, are you as one with Murdo The Queen’s Eleven Fraser who took Housing Benefit away from 11,000 18-21 year olds rendering them homeless and thrown on the scrap heap, to give it to the Obscenely Filthy Rich?
    Johann Lamont, are you going to walk arm and arm with Liz Smith who scrapped Employment Support Allowance of £30 per week to disabled job seekers?
    Kezia Dugdale, will you pair up with linesman Douglas Ross, who is setting up the English NHS for privatisation, by demanding £22 billion of cuts, sorry, ‘efficiencies and savings’, while English patients suffer and die prematurely?
    You get the drift. The Labour Party in Scotland. How did you come to this sorry pass?
    I hold the Blue Tories named above directly responsible for inflicting state engineered poverty and privation on Scots citizens, our children, our elderly, infirm and disabled. Don’t you? I refuse to let them hide behind Theresa May’s skirt.
    This is the Union you want to continue?
    I implore even one of the 24, to discover their backbone and vote with the Government.
    I am deeply saddened by the Death of the Labour Party Up Here.

  237. Undeadshaun says:

    @Bob Mack

    Yes i found it hard to believe a hard core unionist would drop all his beliefs to support independence.

    Especialy since his natural home is the tory party, which he critises.

    It disnae add up!

  238. ronnie anderson says:

    Adam Boulton Sky news Its all kicking of in Edinburgh . Is there a football match oan , because the Holyrood Parliament are getting oan with the day joab in the Committee Rooms

  239. rog_rocks says:

    For those in the media who say that Scottish independence is not in the Green Party manifesto, I have just found a copy online, quote…

    “If there is another vote on
    independence for Scotland we will
    push for Scotland to be independent.”

    So they also are only doing as said in their manifesto, showing the desperate lies from the Tories, who, at the moment, are trying to tell the public that the Green’s don’t have support for a referendum written into their manifesto.

    Here is a link to the Green Party manifesto…

  240. Fred says:

    Anent Brian Wilson, was there not a matter of some dodgy Balkan funds for his tweed interests?

    Nana, good links!
    @ Smallaxe “Sausages are the Boys!”

  241. kailyard rules says:

    Sovereign scot @ 5:01 on 20/03/2017

    Thank you for that roll of cogent information.It should be put onto a page in the National.

  242. Breeks says:

    I have a little sympathy with John and the pro Indy signatures, but I also feel that events are moving on. There isn’t going to be the same frivolous attitude towards Indy which was often quite enjoyable in YES2014. Who can forget Neil Bibby’s online poll and its 96% Yes? Lol.

    But this time around, there won’t be the same emphasis. We all wanted to win in 2014, but this time around, we really need to win. We stand upon the watershed event, we go forward in Europe with heads held high, or we collapse backwards into the regressive stupidity of a bitter, failing, and collapsing Union, where we will be held accountable for the UK’s instability and frustration.

    Westminster will have rid itself of the Poles, the EU, and a whole raft of employment, safety, and welfare regulations that our forefathers suffered to earn for us, their children. Do you think they, the frothing BritNats will find their colourless austerity compatible with Scotlands free education? Free prescriptions? Renewable Energy capital fund? Our Oil? They will blame us for every malevolence which Brexit brings to their door, and they will use that blame to strip Scotland of its Parliament and powers, and all that awaits us beyond.

    Scotland will be a muted backwater, famed for its golf, and the routine slaughter of game birds against a picturesque backdrop, where threats to the game are hounded, poisoned and shot to extinction. And no doubt the foxes and the birds of prey will face their familiar persecution all over again too.

    I am reminded of that poem “When they came for the Communists, I did nothing because I wasn’t a Communist, when they came for the Jews, I did nothing because I wasn’t a Jew….

    Thing is, it just doesn’t ring true for Scotland. “When they came for Poles, Scotland said No. We welcome our Poles, they are safe here. When they came for the Poor, Scotland said, No, you can shove your Bedroom Tax, Tax the wealthy instead. When they came for our Health Service, Scotland said do not touch. You will not sell off our NHS as you have your own! When they came for our EU Membership, Scotland said get to !#!*%!.

    The forthcoming ScotRef will not be a joyride, because what is at stake is not Europe, it’s not even Scotland, it is Scotland’s very capacity to say “Get to !#!*%! , and to resist the inhuman, degrading, and mindless profligacy of Westminster’s depraved sociopathic agenda.

    If we defend our sovereignty, they cannot touch us, or overturn our sovereign voice. Sovereignty is nucleus of our capacity to be a Nation or a sad defeated curiosity. Pity help Scotland if we get that choice wrong twice and define ourselves by anything short or less and sovereign independence.

  243. Smallaxe says:

    Jack Collatin says:

    “‘Unionists’, or as I prefer ‘Yoons’, because for some reason it gets on their tits”

    I’m a bit late catching up Jack but I prefer “Yoonatics”

    Hope things are good with you, my Friend.

    Peace Always

  244. Smallaxe, likewise.
    The Yoon Show with Neddy Seayoon, Yoonbottle and Major Yoonnock.
    Keep weel.

  245. stu mac says:

    Legerwood says:
    21 March, 2017 at 9:03 am
    Story about Brian a Wilson in today’s Herald. Apparently he spoke at a fringe meeting during Labour in Scotland’specifically Spring conference about the Nationalists importing sectarian language from NI. Unionist seemed to be the word he identified as sectarian.


    I find it suspicious this is coming out at practically the same time as the Dowson story. Well known fascist unionist bigot (who previously said he hates the SNP and the EU) suddenly decides he’s going to support the SNP (while still hating their policies). Then hard on his heels comes Wilson accusing the SNP of being just like the unionist bigots in NI. Chance do you think? Yeah, me neither.

    I find the sheer, not merely dishonesty but hatefulness behind this kind of accusation. This is Wilson stirring up a dangerous brew which shows he doesn’t care about the lives of the people of our country. Nye Bevin once called the Tories “lower than vermin”. I don’t have the imagination to think of the appropriate expression for the kind of thing Wilson is doing.

    Feel better for that rant.

  246. yesindyref2 says:

    I think it more likely the 2 SNP candidates will get in, and perhaps the pro-Indy Independent and one other – probably the Tory, on current polling.

    It’s not an offence to criticise the SNP!

  247. Hamish100 says:

    Yes Indy 2

    Why not have 3 Snp elected. It is one thing criticising the SNP and I do – I pay my subscription but it is another thing entirely working against the SNP for years. The independent Murdoch has stood against the SNP several times.As I said more to do about the encumbents not wanting usurped . Jobs for the girl and boy.

  248. Hamish100 says:

    I criticise the SNP if I think they are wrong. It is not just me that believes HQ SNP are messing up the local election process.,why not have 3 SNP candidates rather than expect some one who has stood against the SNP many times the light of day and who criticise the SNP all the time. As I said too many fingers in the pie and interference in the process . Ardrossan and Stevenston have had candidates imposed on them as the local branch want nothing to do with the MSP.
    We are not the Labour Party .

  249. yesindyref2 says:

    Why shouldn’t he stand for election? Even if against the SNP? He’s an independent, beholden to no party. If I was ever mad enough to stand for election, I’d be the same – an Independent.

    The ward wouldn’t take 3 SNP candidates for the vote share, it’s maybe 50%. The danger is that the vote is split evenly over the 3 and that none reach the quota first round, plus some voters only vote for 1 because they like that candidate I guess, and don’t use their further preferences. So it could be a case of stand 2 get 2 elected, stand 3 and only get 1 elected. There’ll be other wards like that all over the country.

    Even party activists – and councillors – don’t understand the way STV works – you can imagine what they tell the voters – in 2012 for instance some were saying just to vote for 1 SNP candidate so they wouldn’t be voting against that one! I remember hearing it, but at that time I didn’t know it was duff advice.

  250. Hamish100 says:

    Even party activists don’t understand the way STV works. And? Simple arithmetic -you put 2 candidates up the best you get is 2. Put 3 up you may get 3 or 2.

    As for the independent candidate (not indy- he stood against SNP for 10 years or longer)-I dont give a toss whether the person stands or not although you believe he will take Gallagher’s (labour seat). Isn’t that the thought process from the start and all other options fall behind that?
    No wish to try and control the council.

  251. yesindyref2 says:

    I repeat. Put up 3 and perhaps get just 1. That’s the branch thinking I think, I checked out the last results and agree with them – simple arithmetic. Quota 1200 or thereabouts, number of SNP votes in total around 2900 from memory, not that many other elminiation preferences to add to that, and quitea lot only voted 1 SNP candidate. You’d need 3600 bare minimum all with cleverly done preferences for 3 to get through.

    As for control of the council, I didn’t say any such thing. Gallagher can go because he’s so anti-indy and jumped on that hate bandwagon, not because I dislike him.

    It’s local knowledge Hamish100. I live here, I don’t get my knowledge filtered through friends like you do.

    And that’s that, end of thread for me.

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