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Wings Over Scotland

There’ll always be a Britain

Posted on September 22, 2015 by

Kezia Dugdale on the BBC’s “Good Evening Wales” yesterday.

(Good Evening Wales, BBC Radio Wales, 21 September 2015)

“Wales and Scotland are so much smaller in size than the rest of the… the rest of England.”

The impressive bit is that that’s what she said AFTER she paused for thought.

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    1. 22 09 15 12:44

      There’ll always be a Britain | Speymouth

    176 to “There’ll always be a Britain”

    1. David turner says:

      So she thinks we area part of england god help us if she ever gets in power.

    2. crisiscult says:

      and “merits in a MORE federal type system”, stressed on the ‘more’ which means she’s begging the question: is the UK a federal system? Yes.

      Was it Gordon Brown, Aly Darling, or Jackie Bird who promised federalism? I’ve lost track.

    3. Murray McCallum says:

      Ah well, she clearly bought into the UK government legal advice regarding the creation of Greater England.

      Another champion of Scotland.

    4. Lollysmum says:

      Keep it up Kez.

      You could have a programme-Kez’s Thought of the Day 🙂 Careful though-more than one per day will be exhausting & detrimental to your health but not ours. Laughter is the best tonic so they say 😉

    5. Malcolm says:

      Doh!! Face palm.

    6. Luigi says:

      Geez, KD is not even a unionist:

      She is a regionalist!

    7. HandandShrimp says:

      I doubt she intended to say that. Her brain was probably screaming don’t say that hence the pause.

      She is not nimble is she? 🙂

    8. ClanDonald says:

      Just to clarify, (as far as I recall) Kez was talking about a federal system for the Labour party, not for the UK.

    9. Thepnr says:

      Jim Murphy was GREAT for the Independence cause. Kezia Dugdale, will in time, prove to have been MAGNIFICENT.

      Getting off to a good start anyway.

    10. Auld Rock says:

      Isn’t she supposed to be a lawyer? Note to self:- Never even think about hiring her!!!

      Auld Rock

    11. G H Graham says:

      Ms. Dugdale may well be as sharp as an Edwardian butter knife but she needs to try much, much harder if she is to out perform the magnificently glaikit, Johann “Stairheid” Lamont.

      Her interviews were so excruciatingly awful, they really deserved their own obituary column in the Evening Times.

      “In loving memory of our beloved stairheid rammy expert and north British, accounting unit branch manager, JOHANN, whose brain cells died peacefully on Newsnight on the 18th September 2014. Till we vote again. R.I.P.”

    12. David McCann says:

      Presumably she is paid the minimum wage, but even that is way above her pay grade

    13. Training Day says:

      It’s clear that Dugdale can manage to learn by rote certain – no doubt McTernan-inculcated – soundbites. ‘Child poverty’, ‘education’, ‘Labour values’ ‘leadership’ and what must have been a toughie for her, ‘democratisation’. Good for her.

      But when she is asked, albeit modestly by tame MSM journos, to think even remotely beyond those soundbites, she flounders.

      What I had hitherto believed impossible now looks likely – that there is even less to her than there was to Lamont and Murphy.

    14. Nana Smith says:

      Oh good grief, seriously where did this girl obtain a degree?

      As my old dad used to say “there’s wiser eating grass”

    15. K1 says:

      She’s just not articulate enough, always speedy and nervous and eager to be the ‘top girl’. Very insecure.

      If she’d just left out ‘the rest of’, you can see what she was ‘trying’ to say, it couldn’t be ‘symmetrical’ because of the different size of populations, i.e. England is the larger ‘nation’.

      But she fucks it up time and time again.

      She is simply not suited to her vocation. It’s a scary thing to witness the rank incompetence of someone, anyone really, who is climbing the ladder and has a say in decisions affecting people’s lives.

      Why is it we live a society where people like Dugdale can get anywhere near the so called ‘top’ positions and have any kind of political influence?

      Has it always been this way, and now because of social media we watch it unfold in real time, is that the only difference?

      Is she the Scottish version of George Bush.

    16. ronnie anderson says:

      @ HandandShrimp Kezia,s no nimble an she,s no quick an if she wiz ah man she,d be cawed a Prick.Enough already wie the Pigs heid jokes .

      Ok I,ll get the jaikit oan ah wis gone oot anyhow.

    17. Thepnr says:


      Margaret Curren is the original “stairheid”.

      Now there are three of them LOL.

    18. snode1965 says:

      Kezia Dugdale….The gift that keeps on giving. When was the last time we saw or heard from any other Slab MSP? The MSM are touting her relentlessly. They have obviously groomed and coached Kezia big time, as they believe she is the only Slab talent in town. The only problem is you canny make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
      BBC Wales also introduced her as,” the leader of Labour in Scotland”,ooft!!

    19. Macart says:

      Great googly moogly! 😮

      The lady’s out for a new record on public gaffs.

    20. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Malcolm Ah slap in the puss wie ah Palm tree wid hiv nae impression oan Kezia.

    21. Thepnr says:

      Rev sorry for the early O/T but surprising news Richard Walker editor of the Sunday Herald and The National to step down. Taking redundancy as part of cost cutting at Newsquest.

      Things are collapsing before our very eyes!

    22. @snode1965 Corbyn called her ‘the leader of Labour in Scotland’ in his post-election speech too … I wonder if the ‘Scottish Labour’ misnomer is being quietly dropped?

    23. Chris Baxter says:

      Her words mean nothing, even to her. She is a cretin. Even Murphy was less thick than her.

      Give up, Dugdale.

      She’s an embarrassment.

    24. Muscleguy says:

      BTW Rev

      With 1L of lime juice, at least half a cup of caster sugar, probably more and some sorbet stabiliser (it really makes a difference) I would use it in about 2hrs to make a lime sorbet.

    25. muttley79 says:

      Some people are comparing Kezia Dugdale to Lamont. I think that is unfair to Johann Lamont. For one thing I believe Lamont did and does care about the Labour Party. I just do not see Dugdale caring about it, beyond the fact that if her party does poorly or worse it adversely affects her career. Kezia Dugdale has no political depth to her whatsoever, a massive void is where values, principles and vision should be.

      It is well documented that Nicola Sturgeon joined the SNP when she was around 16 years old, and joined CND before that. When did Dugdale decide to join Scottish Labour, and why did she do so?

    26. liz says:

      @Thepnr – not sure what to make of this from an indy POV.

      On the other thread I mentioned Kev McKenna writing a very pro SLAB article in the National this week and also the SHs take down of HoF, changing direction??

    27. Albaman says:

      That interview by “I’m John McKay”, on K Dugdale last night, was a complete farce, he, J Mackay, is absolutely hopeless at grilling anyone, what a farce!!.
      Regarding R Walker walking out of the editors job, it’ll be interesting to find out if the dark forces in London, are behind it!.

    28. Dan Huil says:


    29. James D says:

      If you include the sea area of Scottish Waters then Scotland is bigger than England – even with Wales, Northern Ireland and the 6000 that they stole!

    30. K1 says:

      I simply don’t understand why Richard Walker, who has revived the fortunes of the failing weekly Herald, by editing the Sunday Herald and spearheading the incredibly successful launch and continued success of the National, is taking a redundancy package?

      WTF! As ‘they’ say!

    31. Paul says:


      Following graduation from university, Kezia joined Labour after her application for a Researcher post with the SNP was rejected.

      I think the rejection still cuts deep!

    32. Ian Henderson says:

      According to, Cornish and Welsh are regional languages in England. Kezia has clarified how that might be the case for Welsh. On second thoughts, why is Scots and Scots Gaelic not listed?

      So confusing.

    33. Bob Mack says:

      Admittedly it must be difficult to play two parts at once.
      Trying to make the public think you believe in one thing whilst all the time supporting another

      The experts at this are called POLITICIANS. Go back to law Kezia

    34. Marie Clark says:

      Poor wee lassie. Not only is her arithmetic bad, but her geography is not much better.

      Fundilymundily promoted above her ability.

    35. heedtracker says:

      Looks like a Snow White hard sell BBC style rapidly building, just keep speaking Kezia, seven dwarfs will be right along to clean it up. Who her seven dwarves are, sneaky, creepy, lieee, conie fraudie, bullshitie, gordon brewerie, etc

    36. gordoz says:

      @ Thepnr – That’ll be the end of the National then !


      Gordon Brewery – ‘I love it’

    37. Graham MacLure says:

      Paul @ 1:01

      That sort of sums up the present state of politics in Scotland.
      Rejected by the SNP but leadership material for Labour!

    38. Thepnr says:


      I’ve heard your slightly unhinged. No, seriously LOL.

    39. Gary45% says:

      This could be a problem for the newspapers mentioned.
      I will keep on buying only the National and SH, but the minute they start to turn in favour of the Unionist parties, I will simply stop, as will probably 95% of their readers.

      We became sensitive to the msm and media, especially since the Referendum.
      I have found certain news stories in the two papers siding to the unionist parties now and again.
      It will be their loss.
      WOS is the best source of actual news and facts anyway.

      As for Duggers WTF!!!!

    40. cearc says:

      1L of lime juice.

      Freeze it into ice cubes, use at will.

      Kezia. Is it worth commenting?

    41. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      ex the Drum

      Editors of Newsquest’s Sunday Herald and Evening Times step down

    42. G H Graham says:

      STV’s John Mackay is an easy to listen to, likeable news presenter. But he is way too soft when interviewing politicians.

      I’ve seen frozen pork chops grilled better.

    43. desimond says:

      Interesting point regards when did Kezia join labour.

      As a SNP member I was a bit dismayed reading biogs of some of the folk put up for the Glasgow List Nominees…one was even in Labour for Independence last year. It all smacks a little of “Oh is that a door open over there…quick let me through”.

    44. msean says:

      Federal system for what, though? If it was Labour she was talking about,London Labour will still call the shots as Scottish Labour would probably take the Labour whip at Westminster. So any change for Scottish Labour would be pointless window dressing unless Scotland itself was independent.

    45. Socrates MacSporran says:

      As someone who worked with Richard Walker, when he was heading for executive level jobs, and for him, once he had achieved this status, I am not surprised at his decision to take a redundancy deal.

      Richard has spent many years right at the cutting edge of print journalism. He has never been a great reforming and leading editor, but, as a nuts and bolts production journalist, albeit one with extraordinary design skills, he has put in a ton of work over many years.

      He is probably tired, very tired, and in need of a break. The demands which newsquest are making of their editorial executives are I feel ridiculous, being asked to put-out papers and websites with fewer and fewer, and worse-trained journalists.

      I wish him well, but, can see things becoming very much harder for the National and the Sunday Herald. There is every chance their pro-independence stance, which Richard personally drove, will be diminished. I, for one, am concerned at this news.

      The Herald office has lost an awful lot of experienced and talented journlists of late, hence the paper’s decline.

      An old Herald hand, a great friend of mine around the press boxes of Scotland’s football grounds used to say: “There are just enough of us still at the Herald who have standards and who care”. This, I fear, is no longer the case.

    46. Jamie says:

      clap clap well done Kezia, well done, your doing great, head in hands.

    47. Jabney Wedderbourne says:

      I’m impressed. Not many other 11 year old schoolchildren (I’m judging that’s the age, given the voice quality) would be so magisterial in their pronouncemments.

    48. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Bugger the Panda 1.24,every negative story,loses readers. I dont think they,ll be standing in line for benifits.

      Nice tae see you posting again, were you on holiday ( vine yards tours) LOL.

    49. One_Scot says:

      For what it is worth, I was never convinced with the National from day one, my opinion has not changed.

    50. M. Gallagher says:

      OT sorry rev, today Spanish PM Rajoy continues his own ‘Project Fear’ over the Catalan issue – you’ll be kicked out of the EU, what about the currency, your pensions are under threat… all sounds suspiciously familiar!

    51. Giving Gose says:

      As thick as pig s***
      Pigs seem to be a common theme with the BritNat class.

    52. kailyard rules says:

      to Snode 1965. She is the leader of Labour in Scotland. There is no Scottish Labour Party. No matter how much Douglas Horsefeathers insists there is.

    53. Hugh Kirk says:

      It’s only my opinion Kezia but your definitely not 1st minister material on account of you being somewhat glekit.

    54. Jimbo says:

      Good to know that Dugdale is impressionable enough to have swallowed Westminster’s propaganda hook, line and sinker. If she’s that easily influenced then she’s not “leader” material.

      London Labour’s Scottish branch seems to have the monopoly on car crash interviewees.

    55. Robert Louis says:

      Bravo Kezia, bravo! FFS! Yet another nail in the union coffin. Lamont, Murphy, Kezia, who’s next to play ‘not very smart leader of Labour’s branch office in Scotland’.

      Those red tories really are a talentless bunch

    56. Gary45% says:

      Socrates, Thanks for that wee insight.
      Maybe the Establishment are sniffing around the papers due to their success, and everything they have thrown at us so far has only increased the call for Independence.

      Fair play to Mr Walker taking redundancy.( he could always start another Pro Indy news paper)
      I would buy it.

    57. Craig P says:

      “Wales and Scotland are so much smaller in size than the rest of the… the rest of England.”

      Eh? If you added Wales and Scotland’s acreage together, they are pretty much the same size as all of England. And that’s jut the start of what’s wrong with this sentence…

    58. cearc says:

      Richard Walker isn’t totally disappearing.


      … a statement issued by the managing director of the papers’ publisher, Newsquest (Herald & Times): “Tony Carlin, editor of the Evening Times, and Richard Walker, editor of the Sunday Herald and The National, have decided to step down, although Richard will become consultant editor of The National.”

    59. pitchfork says:

      @desimond 1:26pm

      I don’t know the individual candidates concerned, but from the short description you give that strikes me as a positive development. I have been very impressed with the manner in which the SNP has embrased its new membership and trusted them as candidates. This can only strengthen and broaden the links the SNP has with the broader Yes campaign.

      Compare and contrast with how the Labour heirarchy “welcomed” their recent influx of new members/registered supporters.


    60. Robert Peffers says:

      @ronnie anderson says: 22 September, 2015 at 1:41 pm:

      ” … Nice tae see you posting again, were you on holiday ( vine yards tours) LOL.

      While the Scottish press is shedding staff Ronnie Anderson is shedding his shed”

    61. Tinto Chiel says:

      “On the other thread I mentioned Kev McKenna writing a very pro SLAB article in the National this week and also the SHs take down of HoF, changing direction?”

      Yes, Liz, those two editions made my suspicious mind begin to brood on a CoD in the lead up to May’s elections. I remain to be convinced the SH and National are anything more than a way of maintaining sales in choppy waters.

      I’m afraid where newspaper proprietors and modern “journalists” are concerned, it’s difficult to be cynical enough.

      Both titles will be worth the watching in the next few months. Any back-sliding will be punished by those who have awoken politically in the last year, I think.

    62. galamcennalath says:

      In the present climate, I consider that a resignation offence!

    63. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Peffers You,s urna gonny let me forget knockin doon ma wee shed never look fur ah negative when there,s ah positive. Wood chipper = wood pulp = paper,noo the Wee Saltire Shed could end up in the National or iScot lol.

    64. Kragos says:

      Kezia’s problem is opening gob before engaging brain. Even if she managed to get that the right way around, doubt there would be an improvement.

      Just proves how shallow the political gene pool is within SLab when Kezia’s considered leader material.

    65. snode1965 says:

      Kailyard rules,”she is the leader of Labour in Scotland”. Exactly! We are all guilty of referring to the branch office as Scottish Labour. We need to make a conscious effort to give the branch it’s proper title…LiS.

    66. Scott Borthwick says:

      Hugh Kirk says:
      22 September, 2015 at 1:56 pm

      It’s only my opinion Kezia but your definitely not 1st minister material on account of you being somewhat glekit.

      Agreed. I would say it is worse than that. She doesn’t even come across as someone who takes her position seriously. She was on STV last night in what appeared to be her jammies. Grinning like a haddie when she said the main reason she came into politics was to eradicate child poverty. Why support Trident replacement then, Kez?

      Compare and contrast with Nicola Sturgeon’s businesslike appearance and confidence in front of the camera.

    67. Scott Borthwick says:

      Hugh Kirk says:
      22 September, 2015 at 1:56 pm

      It’s only my opinion Kezia but your definitely not 1st minister material on account of you being somewhat glekit.

      Agreed. I would say it is worse than that, though. She doesn’t even come across as someone who takes her position seriously. She was on STV last night in what appeared to be her jammies. Grinning like a haddie when she said the main reason she came into politics was to eradicate child poverty. Why support Trident replacement then, Kez?

      Compare and contrast with Nicola Sturgeon’s businesslike appearance and confidence in front of the camera.

    68. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just as well she is not a leader of any significant political party then cause if she was this would be all over the papers … obviously! 😀

      Perhaps she was just momentarily distracted by a wee bunch of flying pigs. 😀

    69. Bill McLean says:

      Has anyone any more on the retirement of the Editor of the Sunday Herald and the National? This is extremely worrying.
      Will the National continue with a new editor following a friendly to Independence attitude? Will the new editor slowly swing back to unionism? Do they think they have bought an audience which keeps their Herald and other papers afloat and we won’t notice a change for a while? Never been fully convinced by the SH but have been prepared to buy the National daily – any change is worrying and will drop both if I detect a change. Reason is I do not trust the British State and it’s servants for a second – they have proved their duplicity for decades if not centuries. Unfortunately they have too many servants in Scotland!

    70. Dr Jim says:

      I’m really warming to Kezia now, her entertainment value is second to none
      She’s developed this habit now of contradicting herself one day and agreeing with everybody the next

      Kezia now doesn’t mind Independence she’s OK with Federalism so we know now for sure we don’t have that, even after Gordon Brown said we did then changed his mind to no we don’t

      Kezia’s become free and easy with all policies now, so I reckon it won’t be very long before London slaps her round the face and tells her to shut up or the Branch Office will be closed due to cutbacks to be replaced by an email direct from Jezza or a BBC spokesgit to take over

      Somebody neutral like Jakey Burd or Brian Taylor or, well any of them really

      I do hope they keep her on though she’s loads of fun, and a real vote winner……

      For the SNP

    71. maxxmacc says:

      Dugdale would need to go back to school. Scotland is approximately two-thirds the size of England and is in the median of European nations size wise. The big advantage we have got is that we have a small population which means the massive resources of the country can be shared out among us all. Problem is we need access to the levers of power, and then we can start reclaiming the land for all the Scots people, and not just a chosen few.

    72. WP says:

      Ha Ha! Just imagine Scottish Labour were stupid enough to let someone like her lead their party in Scotland!

    73. yesindyref2 says:

      @Socrates MacSporran (and others)
      Thanks for that about Richard Walker. He was at Sturgeon’s roadshow in Glasgow at the SECC, and I don’t think anyone would doubt his sincerity about Independence. I think perhaps he wasn’t there for last Sunday’s edition, explaining why it reallly was so dire – attracting a lot of adverse comments below the line, including mine with over 120 upvotes last count. Perhaps that jogged him a bit, hope not, it’ll leave me with a bit of a guilty conscience.

      As far as non-Indy articles are concerned, both titles when launched expressly said they would try to keep a balanced view as well, hence some anti-indy articles, or at least, anti-SNP ones. Both titles were also pro-indy, but not neccessarily pro-SNP.

      Keven McKenna – came to YES because of declining Labour, but he’s solid old Labour, and if he can see it reviving with the old standards he’s right to give it his support. Especially with Dugdale’s interesting move to not so much neutrality as openness. The National are right to give him space to write. If Labour did by some miracle come out behind YES next time, that would be Independence in the bag, and though I’m an SNP member, I would be delighted, even if it meant a revival of Labour’s fortunes in Scotland (as it probably would).

      Dugdale – please don’t be too hard on her, it was a slip of the tongue. She has a lot to learn, but looks like she has the willpower to do so.

    74. manandboy says:

      Richard Walker is to become ‘consulting editor’of The National.

    75. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi gordoz at 1:19 pm (and for others)

      “@ Thepnr – That’ll be the end of the National then !”

      According to the Allmedia link, Richard Walker is stepping down as EDITOR of the two papers – but will remain as ‘Consultant Editor’ with The National.

    76. heedtracker says:

      “I can’t believe we’ve just spent talking about independence but did you know, 50% of Scottish children leave school unable to read, or write, or count, or speak, Gordon, that’s terrible isn’t it Gordon?”

      “Yes Kezia, it’s fcuking awful.”

    77. jacksg says:

      Scott Borthwick says:@2.31pm

      Grinning like a haddie when she said the main reason she came into politics was to eradicate child poverty. Why support Trident replacement then, Kez?

      Compare and contrast with Nicola Sturgeon’s businesslike appearance and confidence in front of the camera.

      I agree Scott, regarding Nicola but we still have some way to go to eradicate the SLAB mentality.

      I picked up a copy of the Metro on the bus home last night, usually ignore it but had left my ipod, wanted to look at the back page which had Andy on it,anyway had a week look at the letters page (knew i would regret it) there is a photo of Nicola in her wee suit grinning all business like.

      The letter stated:

      ‘does she (Sturgeon)do any work, all she seems to do is strut around in her Fushia suit being interviewed by Vogue and American TV’ does she know there are weans in Scotland who canny read.

      Now i wonder where they got that idea from? answers on a postcard please. 😉

    78. Lollysmum says:

      Perhaps Richard Walker might be recruited to Yes at some point? Everyone said their printed material was dire 🙂

      I’m guessing that Richard has just had enough-it must be heart breaking to see journalistic standards (not in the National)sink so low in the media, that anyone trying to uphold high standards is made to feel out of place.

      I wish him good fortune & thank him for the shot in the arm that Scotland needed last year with the creation of the National. Even if it changes tack tomorrow, it did the job it was intended to do at it’s inception.

      He can feel justifiably proud of that achievement 🙂

    79. Socrates MacSporran says:

      What is happening more and more at 200 Renfield Street, the Herald’s office, is that we have a single department head, overseeing all four titles.

      For example, Jonathan Coates is Head of Sport, covering the Herald, Sunday Herald, Evening Times and National. I dona’t bother too-much with names and personalities, so I am not au gait with which individual journalist has day-to-day charge of each department of each paper, but, for instance, the National’s copy is more freelance-driven than the other three.

      This could spread, journalism is becoming more and more a freelance-driven industry these days.

      I could see Magnus Llewellin, the Herald editor, having overall control of all four titles. Magnus, is Anglo-Welsh, more pro-British than pro-Scottish, I would say.

      Of course, we might see Kevin McKenna back full-time at The Herald, which I don’t see as a positive move for the SNP. Kevin might, I fear, revert to his former pro-Labour personna.

      I have nothing concrete on this, other than a gut feeling.

      We live in interesting times when it comes to events at the top of Renfield Street.

    80. manandboy says:

      Iain Gray, Johann Lamont, Jim Murphy, Kezia Dugdale.
      Can you spot the odd-one-out?

      The Leader of the Unionist Labour England & Wales in Scotland Party, as per the four names above, reflects perfectly the party behind them. I nearly said ‘beneath them’, but that’s not possible. IOW, the talent pool in Labour in Scotland is barely wet.

      If Labour in Scotland DON’T join the Independence Movement, they will evaporate like a puddle on a sunny day.
      I can’t wait – but then I always avoid puddles.

    81. Francis Mooney says:

      For clarification of her statement she can be contacted at:
      Kezia [dot] dugdale [at] scottish [dot] parliament [dot] uk

    82. Another Union Dividend says:

      Meanwhile in the biggest NO voting constituency, the Edinburgh South Yes Cafe is a beacon of hope but needing to raise some funding.

    83. manandboy says:

      With the very large elderly, and newspaper reading, population in Scotland, you don’t need a PhD to know that in five years, printed newspapers will be all but gone – if left to the market forces of supply and demand.

      The new era of smartphones, phablets and tablets is already with us and can only become ever more widespread to the point of becoming indispensable.

    84. gordoz says:

      Dont care what the detractors say
      This is a serious setback – without
      the National YES are back to square one

      No side will seize on this as the first real crack in YES
      Its our only daily hardcopy for Indy

    85. Nana Smith says:


      Lord Sewel will not face any charges due to lac of evidence.

      I’m beginning to doubt my own sanity because I’m fairly sure I saw the pictures of him cavorting and snorting in the daily rags.

      The sewer dwellers can do no wrong or so it seems. I await the Carmichael dismissal any day now.

    86. manandboy says:

      I look forward not only to Independence, but also to the disfiguring stain of Unionism being removed from everyday life. That includes the 3 Unionist political parties, the BBC and the DR. But that will only be a start.

    87. Thepnr says:

      Severin Carrells piece on Richard Walker.


      “After an initial trial period, Tim Blott, the group’s managing director, kept the title running, but its sales are understood to have slumped sharply, falling below 20,000 a day.”

    88. Iain More says:

      Well the BBC has dropped totally any mention of the porcine industry. I note also the lack of any follow up to the news that my Tax spondoolicks will be used to build Nuke Power Stations in the sowf of Ingerland. I note with further dismay that the greedy sods will get a guaranteed price per KWH so that will no doubt be drip fed into our future lecky bills.


      Well you mentioned market forces, if it was left up to market forces then no new Nuke Stations would get built but then if it was left up to genuine market forces then the dead wood Press would also already be gone.

      I still have never had an answer as to holds the Johnston Press Junk Bonds for instance since they were never called in when due to pay out. They never had the cash to pay the holders back and they still don’t. The same is true of a lot of the Press and ahem Media, debt ridden and loss making and some of them even paying out dividends with cash they don’t have. I keep hoping that the free market will take over in their case but it never does but then there is no such thing as the free market, it would slaughter Brit Nats and Tories by the millions if really allowed to work.

    89. gordoz says:

      Should have said did not always agree
      With Richard Walker but I sincerely wish
      Him well n hope he stays involved with

    90. manandboy says:

      As Kezia coughs up another mouth fankle, ‘Piggy-gate’ Cameron can today thank Volkswagen for keeping him out of the headlines and possibly keeping his job, as the excesses of one neo-Liberal group is replaced by another.

      VW’s attempts to deceive the diesel emissions regulations using illegal software has only served as a massive self-destruct button for the German car giant. Couldn’t have happened to nicer people.

    91. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, I endorse that view. The Sunday Herald supporting YES was a boost for YES before the referendum, and the launch of the National was a shot in the arm, to build on the incredible post-referendum rebound for YES which shows us not just not defeated, but stronger than ever, and conservatively with 50% support now.

      Thanks you Sunday Herald and the National, and Richard Walker,

    92. galamcennalath says:

      manandboy says:

      the disfiguring stain of Unionism being removed from everyday life … the BBC

      Yes! Being able to switch on a TV to watch the main evening news bulletin and get what you might expect – reporting of events close to home and across the world which are relevant.

      Not just relevant, but presented in an objective and unbiased way. Reporting our own political arena, not our neighbour’s. Focusing on what matters here, not what someone else wants us to watch.

      Balance, with criticism where it’s due, but actually celebrating national achievements.

      It will come, sooner than later!

    93. Brian Powell says:


      Also noticed in that media feed that GCC is giving full support to the BBC, “In a formal submission to the consultation on the BBC’s future, the Labour-led authority pointed also to its economic value to the city”!

      I wonder if in it’s submission to the consultation it also recommended more of the licence fee collected in Scotland be spent in Scotland.

      Of course we now know the very close connections between BBCScot and the Labour Party.

    94. dakk says:

      Kezia would have forgotten she was in Wales,not England, and was just trying to patronise the English listeners like all good Scots unionists do(when they they don’t think anyone else will notice their slimy sycophancy).

    95. manandboy says:

      Point taken, Ian More. I think you’re right although I have no idea of the true financial state of the mainstream titles.

      I do suspect however, that the British State will never give up it’s ability to spread its propaganda effectively to the population. Though after Independence, who will care.

    96. manandboy says:


      “Not just relevant, but presented in an objective and unbiased way. Reporting our own political arena, not our neighbour’s. Focusing on what matters here, not what someone else wants us to watch.

      Balance, with criticism where it’s due, but actually celebrating national achievements.”

      Love it! And you know what, G, I think we are all going to LOVE living in the new Scotland after Independence.

    97. muttley79 says:

      This appears to be very bad news about Richard Walker stepping down. I think there is a strong realisation that the independence campaign needs a pro-independence supporting newspaper(s), not just based in Scotland but owned here as well. Possibly Walker has got pissed off with the fact that he has had to make staff redundant despite being about the only paper(s) to see their readership increase in the last few years, and felt he should step down as well.

      We really do require wealthy Yes supporters to step up to the challenge now. Newsquest do not have a good reputation at all in terms of labour and employee relations, and this was just a matter of time before something of happened imo.

      So the substance really is: we need a pro-independence newspaper(s) not only based but owned in Scotland as well.

    98. manandboy says:

      Yes Brian. Labour-led GCC in full support of BBC Scotland. Now there’s a surprise.

      BBC Scot. is to the Labour Party in Scotland what my tongue is to my mouth.

    99. JBS says:

      Never mind the width, feel the quality, Kezia. A walking, and especially talking, advert for Scottish independence, God love her.

    100. mike cassidy says:

      Does anybody have any more info on KD’s applying for a job with the SNP.

      Her Wiki entry has her doing

      1999-2003 Aberdeen Uni ( Law degree)

      2004-2006 Edinburgh Uni (Policy Studies masters)

      2007-2011 Office Manager and political adviser (sic) to Labour MSP George Foulkes

      2011… MSP via Labour Lothian List

      Looks like a political animal to me.

      Granted – one with great self-delusion about her abilities in the field.

    101. yesindyref2 says:

      Let’s hope there’s more to this than meets the eye, that there is a possibility for a funded daily and weekend paper to actually be owned in Scotland, based in Scotland, and fully represent Scotland. And perhaps Richard Walker has already been approached to be the editor?

    102. GallusEffie says:



      you know how we were wondering about the Alpha 1 stall on Saturday? I looked it up and forgot to let you know what I found out.

      The Lyndsay Jarrett foundation was formed for the brave lady who scaled the side of Edinburgh castle with an oxygen tank during Indyref.

      She and her children have alpha 1 antitrypsin deficiency, a genetic disorder which seriously affects the health of the liver and lungs. Not a nice thing at all.

      So next time we see Alpha 1, we’ll know a little more than before…

    103. Kevin Evans says:

      Bad stuff all this.

      News filled with “labour row” – VW bad cars – UK China best pals.

      I wanna hear about Cameron shaggin pigs

    104. Glamaig says:

      If just one third of the SNP membership bought the National it would be doing well.

      I got a electronic subscription plus buy a paper copy when I can, some of it is good, some of it isn’t, but I buy it to support it and to see it on the shelves as a pro indy voice. Before it appeared I hadn’t bought a paper for years.

      All the Unionist rags will continue no matter how much money they lose, they will be propped up as they are a vital part of the establishment propaganda for the masses.

      The National needs us to buy it to make it viable. If 1.6m vote Yes, and 112000 join the SNP, why is it not selling more?

    105. yesindyref2 says:

      Which makes the Sunday Herald coverage all the worse. Even if they ignored the YES angle, they could have wandered around and mentioned all the social causes being represented and allowed / invited by Paul Hutcheon’s despised Sheridan.

    106. peekay says:

      Nana Smith says:
      “Lord Sewel will not face any charges due to lac of evidence.

      I’m beginning to doubt my own sanity because I’m fairly sure I saw the pictures of him cavorting and snorting in the daily rags”

      You saw him snorting what though?

      “It wasn’t cocaine m’lud, it was baking powder and it’s now up to the prosecution to prove otherwise”

      “Case dismissed”

      Any charges would be a waste of court time.

    107. muttley79 says:


      Let’s hope there’s more to this than meets the eye, that there is a possibility for a funded daily and weekend paper to actually be owned in Scotland, based in Scotland, and fully represent Scotland. And perhaps Richard Walker has already been approached to be the editor?

      We have to hope so, particularly after all the progress in the last 8 years or so. It would be a terrible time to lose momentum. There is still loads of work to do.

    108. manandboy says:

      The National/ Mutley79

      If the report in the Guardian, as Thepnr says, is accurate and daily sales of The National have fallen beneath 20,000, one wonders how any other independent pro Independence daily would fare.

      1.7 million Yes voters returning under 20,000 sales (0.85%) of Scotland’s ONLY daily Independence newspaper, does not bode well for the future. Perhaps the dominance of hand held screen devices is greater than I thought.

      A breakdown of the reading habits of the 1.7 million Yes voters would be very interesting. I’d bet 20000 of them read the DR. Force of habit?

    109. Lesley-Anne says:

      Kevin Evans says:
      22 September, 2015 at 4:16 pm

      Bad stuff all this.

      News filled with “labour row” – VW bad cars – UK China best pals.

      I wanna hear about Cameron shaggin pigs

      The latest news from the Pigs Liberation Front, or is it the Liberation Front for Pigs I can’t quite remember now. An way the Pigs whatsit, who ever they are, are trottering around like a bunch of heidless .. erm … well …pigs atthe moment. Apparently they are all waiting the iminent arrival of their Conservative Party membership cards.

      I did hear though that the P.L.F., or is it the L.F.P., are up in trotters about all the porking of pork pies and baconing on and on about bacon sarnies! 😀

    110. Thepnr says:

      Hand back your TV License. It will make you feel good and is the best thing I have ever done to make me feel good.

      Why? I’m enjoying the radio so much more, I’ll hold my hands up and admit to listening to BBC Radio Scotland in the morning. Finger on the pulse and all that.

      Afternoons I can listen to Smooth or Magic Radio, oldie tunes I like. At night we might watch a film or documentary from Netflix or Amazon prime which combined are still cheaper than the TV License.

      Honestly, sitting right now and hearing some of the best songs ever made with a smile on my face. Try it, I doubt you’ll miss the telly.

      A poke in the eye for the establishment, makes me happy.

    111. gordoz says:

      Stuff the Kezia Dugdale keech folks – small potatoes

      In case no ones realised it yet the end of the National will be a ‘gloat fest’ for all our loyal ProudScotbut journo’s.

      They’ve already started and guess what will be on Scotland 2015 & Tonight this evening ?

      Noted 100,00 SNP supporters. Why aren’t they buying / reading the National FFS ?

      Whats wrong with folk ?

    112. mealer says:

      So…..does England have 3 teams in the Rugby World Cup?

    113. john king says:

      crisicult says
      “Was it Gordon Brown, Aly Darling, or Jackie Bird who promised federalism? I’ve lost track.”

      Eh… was it C Jackie Bird?
      eh… yes final answer Jackie Bird!

    114. galamcennalath says:

      Just did a search on the title used by Stu. It’s a play on the old song – There’ll always be an England, written in 1939

      Oddly, it contains lines like ….

      “Red, white and blue; what does it mean to you?”

      “Britons, awake!”

      “If England means as much to you
      As England means to me.”

      …. Clearly, our southern neighbours then, were just as clueless as they are now about the difference between England/Britain/UK. Also, confused the Union Flag with the English national flag.

      We have a lot of history to overcome! JD’s antics don’t help!

      [ as a welcome aside, I no longer need to wait 30mins to see my postings! They are there instantly or in a few minutes. 🙂 ]

    115. Dan Huil says:

      Sadly many good people might be losing their jobs, but if the National has such low circulation figures as quoted then its demise will not have much effect on the Yes movement.

      The same applies to the Sunday Herald.

      Losing the daily Herald will actually help the Yes movement. Again, that’s of lttle consolation for those losing their jobs.

      We all know the future lies with the web, and with sites like WOS.

    116. Nana Smith says:


      Must admit I do get a wee bit high when I’m baking cakes, now I know it must be due to baking powder being a raising agent and all.

      But of course you are right. I’m sure even if they had hard evidence he would still be let off.

    117. Thepnr says:


      Cheers for giving me the opportunity to watch that “one more time” 🙂

    118. john king says:

      James D says
      “If you include the sea area of Scottish Waters then Scotland is bigger than England – even with Wales, Northern Ireland and the 6000 that they stole!”

      Tide in or
      tide out? 🙂

    119. walter scott says:

      What must Welsh labour make of their Scottish counterparts if this is the best they can come up with to lead them. I, on the other hand just love Kezia Dugdale. She always gives you a wee glimpse into her wonderful world. Keep it coming

    120. manandboy says:

      mike cassidy at 4:10 pm (Kezia Dugdale) “Looks like a political animal to me.”

      And a protected species at that.
      7 years at Uni:- 1999-2003 Aberdeen Uni ( Law degree)
      2004-2006 Edinburgh Uni (Policy Studies masters)
      It beggars belief.

      Imagine Kezia, defending clients in court. 100% Fail.
      Imagine Kezia, prosecuting someone in court. 100% Fail.

      Imagine Malcolm Tucker putting Kezia straight with a few home truths. Should be a Video – maybe for Children in need.

      After Nicola, Kezia is the single most influential woman in SNP Politics. That’s it – she’s found her calling – as a mole in the Labour Party for the SNP.

    121. heedtracker says:

      Really looking forward to Ms Gugdale signing off Sunday Politics, future Sir Brewer welling up at the last verse.

      Red, white and blue; what does it mean to you?
      Surely you’re proud, shout it aloud,
      “Britons, awake!”
      The empire too, we can depend on you.
      Freedom remains. These are the chains
      Nothing can break.

      There’ll always be an England,
      And England shall be free
      If England means as much to you
      As England means to me.

    122. Sinky says:

      AS yesindyref2 @ 3.53 pm says

      Thanks you Sunday Herald and the National, and Richard Walker,

      To ensure its success more Indy supporters need to buy The National on a regular basis. It doesn’t even cost much.

    123. Thepnr says:

      @Nana Smith

      That’s the biggest problem the UK has got. THEY will always get off under this corrupt government. No matter the offence.

      THEY of course are never you or I, they live under different rules. The rule of law has broken down so badly that the powerful feel immune, break purdah rules! big deal.

      Illegally sample postal votes and admit it on telly, big deal.

      Release lies in an attempt to smear the First Minister, big deal.

      Well for me it is a big deal, sick of the troughers getting away with their crap. There will be a day of reckoning and sooner the better.

      Tick Tock. We fight on against the corruption and lies.

    124. yesindyref2 says:

      I’ve never understood the doubts about the National. Yes it provides balance which means at times having a pro-Labour article in it, but that’s the point, no point preaching to the converted, we’re voting YES.

      Good line from an article there:

      “It’s a case of the Prime Minister’s penis as a weapon of mass distraction”

      which is what some wingers have been saying.

    125. donald anderson says:

      Maybe she was just being a squillion mite hyperbolic.

      After all the English media and academics often say Britain when they mean Engerland and vice versa. Some languages do not have “Britain”, but England. Hence Yankee movies, etc, preponderance for saying Queen of England and England at war with Germany, etc, etc, etc.

    126. Nana Smith says:

      @Thepnr you are so right, corrupt to the core and they vote on the laws.

      Liberal Democrats vote overwhelmingly on to accept peerages because apparently you can’t change the system from the outside

      Willie Rennie is a weasel

    127. Ken500 says:

      She has got a Law Degree

    128. Philip Allan says:

      So, Ms Dugtail, you consider Scotland as “part of England”?? GO TO HELL!!!

    129. Dr Jim says:

      For those folk thinking a Labour resurgence is Ok, well it’s not, how short are peoples memories, and anyway they’re still ruining our local councils,

      Kezia’s a lot of fun but c’mon these people are dangerous, what this latest sucking up proves beyond doubt is they will say and do anything to get their feet back under the table

      At least the Liberal Democrats are honest about their duplicity and they tell it like it is
      They just despise the entire SNP voting public and they tell us so

      I’m afraid for the foreseeable future I’ll just be remaining a Deluded Thick Extremist Insurgent Fascist Cult Following Nazi SNP supporter living in Jockistan

      Funny thing, I never heard the SNP call people names like that

    130. Ian Henderson says:

      Thanks to the fall out from Kezia’s talk, Welsh is no longer a regional language in

    131. Ken500 says:

      20,000 sales (a day?) + online and increasing – is average sales for an upper catchment paper. The National doesn’t pick up advert revenues. Not too well known yet. No online advertising presence. Average sales a week – 100,000 – 50p a copy – £50,000. + online subscription. Do-able+ Sunday Herald revenues. Need a wider distribution.

      Guardian, Herald and Scotsman sales – each are lower but have more advertising revenues. More established, Really low sales. Daily Records sales have plummeted since the VOW. 50% down? They will be struggling with higher overheads.

      The Sun has a low price. Sales reflect that,. A comic.

    132. Ken500 says:

      Courtesy of FFFoulkes

    133. velofello says:

      First hand info: Richard Walker puts in a long stressful day, and he is no spring chicken. Just hope his projects, Sunday Herald and the National continue well, with his overview. And yes, 112,000 SNP members but sales of around 20,000?

      And why is Kezia, and others, in such positions of prominence in politics? Do any of you reading here fancy a career in politics?

      We have now in my patch an amateurish career political aspirant as candidate for Holyrood. Policies? Political reasoning? Nah, whatever. Networking yeh?.Strategy? To get on the bandwagon and get elected. Whilst we/us aren’t interested in a job in politics, she and hubby are full-time politicos. They work hard, they beat the incumbent MSP in selection. But so do busy fools work hard..The SNP needs to pay attention to candidate quality. I will not vote for her, 40 years voting for the SNP, not this time.

    134. Ken500 says:

      To be sure Richard Walker will still be involved in the Campaign in another role. An offer he couldn’t/wouldn’t refuse?

    135. Ken500 says:

      She proably wasn’t in Wales or missed the road signs, but connect in a studio in Scotland or elsewhere.

    136. Tinto Chiel says:

      The circulation figures for The National were quoted in The Guardian. I’d prefer to see another source, frankly. The Guardian can no longer be classed as a newspaper. If the figure is as low as this, what are Yessers thinking of?

      I buy two Nationals a day to keep it going so the unionists can’t get the chance to gloat about it failing, and a SH at the weekend. It doesn’t mean I’m always happy about the content: I just think they should be supported at the moment. I leave one copy in a cafe or whatever. If I think there’s going to be dirty work at the crossroads re May 2016 now Richard Walker’s not in direct control, I would stop buying these papers. I’m not sure what his new role would actually entail. Let’s wait and see.

      And Kezia, Kezia…..

      It’s her dear old dad I feel sorry for. How he must cringe at her comments on education.

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dr Jim
      If a labour resurgence gets us Independence then they’ve got my support, but not my vote.

      But then I’m an Independence prostitute; I’ll sell my body for Indy, though not my soul.

    138. Nana Smith says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Great meeting you on Saturday!

      Did you say you were learning gaelic, if so…

    139. Jim McIntosh says:

      I still get the National delivered daily, and it would be a shame if it were to fold, but YESsers don’t get their news from the MSM.

      As someone stated above most people who buy the Record, Sun etc. only buy out of habit and probably only really read the gossip pages, TV pages and the sport. I’m sure even NO voters don’t believe what they read in their dailies.

      The EU referendum is going to make it even worse for the print media. As the country is probably split down the middle, whichever option the papers decide to support will automatically alienate 50% of their readers. Leading to more people going on line to get a less biased opinion.

      The same with the BBC, they must be cacking themselves, because as we know, once they’ve lost us we don’t go back.

      All of that makes it even harder for ‘Project Fear’ to work come Indyref2.

    140. Ken500 says:

      Newsnet (US company) makes it’s money printing and selling literature for private education, worldwide, and (UK) Gov literature printing contracts.

      Johnston Press (Scotsman)(large reconstructed debt £Millions) makes it’s money printing literature. Labour Party literature and propaganda? Based in the NE of England the company is Labour supporting – Chief Executive etc.

      Most Newspaper groups are publishing companies. The Press division is a sideline. They keep in with politicians for favours.

    141. john says:

      We should ALL remember, this is the reason we wanted Kezia to get the top job.
      Cannon fodder.

    142. Onwards says:

      I think it’s essential to try and keep the National going.

      We always complain we don’t have a balanced media, so it is essential to support the one daily paper that does support independence.

    143. Tinto Chiel says:

      Lovely to meet you on Saturday, Nana, and all the other Happy Folks around the Wings stall. I use that website quite a lot to improve my accent, actually, which isn’t great. That cocker spaniel in The National today could give me a run for my money, I suspect.

      This is between you and me, right? Don’t tell the Rev, for Goad’s sake…….

      Hammers, hammers, hammers.

      yesindyref2: I’ve got a pair of 8″ sling backs if you want them (barely used in the cause). Keep away from Lord Watson, you’ll get more than your fingers burned, (allegedly).

    144. Nana Smith says:

      As there is a new thread squillions worth of oil for an indy Scotland.

    145. Andy-B says:

      What does Miss Dugdale mean by the rest of England, is their a bit we don’t know about yet?

      Scotland so much smaller, considerably that is, if you look at a BBC weather map.

    146. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tinto Chiel
      Sounds cool. I didn’t get to where I am today without knowing what 8″ sling backs are.

      Ummm, what are they?

    147. Tinto Chiel says:


      Don’t get Paula Rose started on this subject. Her avatar says it all. Met her in Freedom Square last Saturday: Think Sofia Vergara with a dash of Lady Gaga.

      As the locals say, pure doll, by the way.

      First post seemed to disappear. Apologies for any doublers.

    148. Lesley-Anne says:

      With the Conservative party continuing with their … ahem … Pork-a-thon is it true that their Branch office in Scotland are playing catch the little piggy? 😀

    149. Dr Jim says:

      Fcuk them with a dead Piggy

      Just an opinion mind

    150. Tinto Chiel says:

      Great post, Nana.

      Ahh, the Curse of Oil.

      That’s why Norway is a basket case.

    151. Tinto Chiel says:

      Great post, Nana.

      Ahh, the Curse of Oil.

      That’s why Norway is a basket case.

    152. Tinto Chiel says:

      Getting error message when I tried to post.

      Great post, Nana.

      Ah, the Curse of Oil.

      That’s why Norway is a basket case.

    153. yesindyref2 says:

      I think one of the problems with these error messages is that when we fill in Name but particularly Mail, we do one letter wrong – I know I have (thanks Rev for putting it through). Our avatar then doesn’t show, if we have one.

    154. Tinto Chiel says:

      yesindyref2: copy that. Haven’t had one before.


    155. Nana Smith says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Yes and the biggest curse on Scotland are the unionist parties. Enriching themselves and Westminster while Scotland got poorer.

      Might have to repost the link on the new thread later so folks can pass it on.

    156. JLT says:

      ‘There’ll always be a Britain’

      Actually …no there won’t be.

      Just as our sun; our planet, the universe, and possibly even time itself …all things do come to an end.

      …and that even means the great British Union. It will end one day. Fact.

    157. Tinto Chiel says:

      Nana: Tha, gu dearbh.

    158. Nana Smith says:

      Gle mhath Tinto Chiel!

    159. Tinto Chiel says:

      Nana: caisg!

      Hammers, , hammers, hammers!

    160. Wuffing Dug says:


      Guess that will affect Audi as well.

      Happy days!

    161. Lesley-Anne says:

      Wuffing Dug says:
      22 September, 2015 at 10:02 pm


      Guess that will affect Audi as well.

      Happy days!

      Well there are quite a few well known vehicles that could be affected by this VW nonsense alone WD.





    162. Fred says:

      Nana, many thanks for that. If U were at the Skwerr on Saturday or paths never crossed, 1500 is a lot of peeps!!

    163. cearc says:


      Och, not my Skoda as well as the wee as the Lamborghini.

      I won’t be able to give Paula Rose lifts any more, she being green an’ all. Devastated!

    164. Nana Smith says:


      I was at the rally and asked if you were there.

      As you say someday hopefully!

    165. Lesley-Anne says:

      cearc says:
      22 September, 2015 at 11:02 pm


      Och, not my Skoda as well as the wee as the Lamborghini.

      I won’t be able to give Paula Rose lifts any more, she being green an’ all. Devastated!

      Just as well you got shot of the Bentley and Bugatti then Cearc otherwise you’d have even MORE problems. 😀

    166. Wuffing Dug says:


      I shouldn’t gloat, I know, a lot of people will be affected.

      I just can’t stand the Audi brand and the owners perceived superiority. No voters the lot of them.
      Living in Aberdeen it’s suffocating.

      BTW I drive a Japanese car. Don’t know what that says, don’t give a shit.

      Nae offence to any Audi owners BTW 😉 just kidding n’that.
      They used to be ‘the thinking man’s BMW’ – bit like Saab – changed days.

    167. Lesley-Anne says:

      Only Audi I really ever fancied was the old original Quatro WD. I can’t say I’m really that bothered about any of the current crop of Audi’s. As for BMW’s well just don’t get me started on them that’s all I’m gonna say.

      Our wee runaround is American … JEEP Grand Cherrokee! 😉

    168. Paula Rose says:

      Is there anywhere more angelic?

    169. Sandy Henderson says:

      Let’s give Keiza her due. She gets 20 minutes worth of a 10 minute interview. By God, she can rattle her gums. Have to re-run same a couple of times to get the gist. She then probably wipes her mouth with a tissue from a roll!!

    170. Fred says:

      Nana, I met the Anderson Brothers (Ronnie n Donald), Brian fae Doon the Toon & a very nice lassie I only remember as Teenie fae Troon! 🙂

    171. Nana Smith says:


      I was somewhat star struck so anyone I’ve missed out please forgive!

      Ronnie, Paula rose[Wow!] Betty boop, John King & Irene, JLT,

      Archie not Erchie, Ian Brotherhood, Pete the camera,
      X sticks, Hoss Mcintosh and his bro Alun, Gillian, LizG, Taranaich, Finlay, Tinto chiel, Kendomacaroonbar,

      Castlemilk Chavie,Joc Scot, Ninja penguin,Lanarkist, Jim Thomson,Caz-m, Moidart, Briandoonthedoon, Cactus, Graeme Doig and weegingerdug.

      Geez what a day!

    172. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      CastleHILLS Chavie!


    173. Nana Smith says:

      @Briandoonthetoon Oops don’t now where I got milk from, must have had it on my mind as I was making breakfast!

      Please forgive me Castlehills Chavie

    174. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      You get milk from a cow, or a goat…


    175. Simon Barrow says:

      Also, I wonder what a “sort of a symmetrical system” is? One that lacks symmetry but pretends otherwise, perhaps?

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