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The vortex of the Sun

Posted on April 18, 2015 by

We know we’ve made this point several times before. But can someone explain to us again how there’s no significant difference between the (broad, collective) political outlook of the respective peoples of Scotland and England? Because if there isn’t, doing this kind of thing just doesn’t make any sense at all.

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    1. 18 04 15 11:36

      The vortex of the Sun | Politics Scotland | Sc...

    2. 18 04 15 12:32

      The vortex of the Sun | Speymouth

    80 to “The vortex of the Sun”

    1. Blackhack says:

      It’s almost as if the stun cant make up it’s mind ??
      Maybe it’s schizophrenic ??….It certainly needs a visit to a psychiatrist

    2. Mosstrooper says:

      Please don’t go..we love you, share in our good fortune.

      Oh! you’ve stayed.. we hate you and we’ll destroy you if you think you’ll get anything from us.

      Sooo… not psychotic episodes then, just nasty twisted lying. Well that’s ok.

    3. Raul GodSword says:

      It makes sense in terms of creating a narrative in which any SNP-Lab deal will be deemed illegitimate. They see an opportunity to help Labour’s collapse in Scotland and then in the inevitable hung parliament, shoehorn the Tories back in with some “largest party” bullshit. It all fits perfectly. It will just provide further proof of the entirely corrupt nature of the British state and its media. Of course, we knew all this.

    4. Fiona says:

      I think it may have something to do with profit. Could be wrong…

    5. Pooka says:

      Simply, Murdoch want s the Tories.
      It suits him to support the SNP to reduce the Labour seats, whilst at the same time attacking them both in England to bolster the Tories.

    6. David Agnew says:

      to be honest, they have been doing that sort of thing for a long time. Saying one thing here and another thing down south. In an age of digital comms with news at the touch of a button, it does boggle the mind that they still think they can get away with it.

    7. heedtracker says:

      Its as creepy as being told you’re allowed to be proud Scot buts, but Scotland no longer exists, vote red or blue tory or else.

    8. Grouse Beater says:

      There are independence supporters who think Salmond’s biggest error of judgement was talking to Murdoch.

    9. manandboy says:

      Chalk and cheese – and the Sun knows it, but is pretending to be the friend of both, so shows itself to be two faced and therefore untrustworthy. Good work, Stu.

    10. Alastair says:

      Is Jim Murphy now toxic.
      Last nights interviews were done by Curran and Dugdale.

    11. Chris Foster says:

      If I hadn’t witnessed the crazy world of UK politics in the run up to, and post, referendum, I’d be thinking that this beggars belief. But I have – and nothing can surprise me now.

    12. The Sun has a website and you can tweet them. So why do they insist on conducting themselves as if there was no social media?

      It should be clear that we no longer have to find papers lying on train seats to see what’s happening in different editions. Their frequent appearance on websites like Wings must be apparent – even to them.

      It’s obvious that they want the Tories back in.. and are appealing directly for that South of the border with their anti- Scottish rhetoric.

      The ‘talking up’ of the SNP here is designed to weaken the Labour vote, towards that pro Tory agenda. What they don’t seem to grasp is that there is huge awareness here that a vote for the SNP does not weaken the vote on the left ( assuming a form of Lab/SNP deal ).

      It’s as if the editors think the readership of the Sun are stupid……

    13. Clootie says:

      Pooka says:
      18 April, 2015 at 11:04 am

      No matter how many Labour MPs lose a seat in Scotland to the SNP it does not help the Tories one bit. The SNP have clearly stated that they will NEVER work with the Tories so the net balance of “anti-Tory remains the exact same,

      Why are you pushing Dim Jim’s chant…unless you are on Dim Jim’s side.

    14. Robert Peffers says:

      First of all by pushing two point of view The Sun makes itself totally irrelevant to the debate both north & South of the border. In effect, if there was also an East/West political split The SUN would have four different points to push and none of the four would be the truth.

      The Sun would back apartheid of Scots, English, Welsh and N. Irish and espouse each as the superior country in each country if it would sell a few more copies in that particular country.

      What’s more their disparate readership in each respective country would not only buy the Sun but buy into their apartheid.

    15. R-type Grunt says:

      It’s just as well there’s no such thing as the internet.

    16. Albaman says:

      Stew, the other day, I watched A Neil’s Daily Politics program, on it was a “Sun” political reporter, during the discussion, the Sun output was discussed, he, the English Sun reporter said that they, English Sun, had no idea what the Scottish Sun would print, thereby indicating they have different agendas.
      (I think it was Thursday’s politics show)

    17. Johnny says:

      I would be interested to know in what sense inequality has narrowed in the last five years.

      I suppose this claim provides a dual purpose in allowing them to pretend Tory rule has been good for people and also allowing selfish types to kid themselves on that voting for the Tories isn’t condemning the weakest in society to more austerity and letting bankers etc off the hook for their crimes.

    18. Marie clark says:

      Oh good grief. Suffering from the Janus syndrome perhaps.

      True enough R-type just as well there’s no such thing as the internet.

      We love you. Whit you still here? GTF.

    19. One_Scot says:

      Surely by now everyone across the UK can see that life would be so much easier for everyone if Scotland was Independent.

    20. Bob Mack says:

      Knowing the Sun,it was probably the same writer for both articles

    21. Sinky says:

      Pooka. The Sun is merely reflecting Labour’s approach. Remember how Miliband failed to make up his mind over the Bedroom Tax until he got results of focus groups.

      Labour’s plans to outflank the SNP as the natural party of social justice (were fatally damaged on 26 March 2014 when Scottish Labour MPs voted in favour of further Tory welfare cuts.

      This follows the non show of Labour MPs to vote against the Bedroom Tax on 13th November 2013 and failure to oppose Tory plans to cut the top rate of tax for the highest earners on 22 March 2012.

      The last Labour government introduced student tuition fees and the privatisation of the NHS while the gap between the richest and poorest widened. As Ed Miliband is desperate to woo voters in middle England there is no chance that Labour will do very much different from the Tories in England..

      Labour MP Rachel Reeves proudly stated on Radio 4 on 26 March 2014 that it was actually Ed Miliband who first proposed to cap welfare, sounding rather pleased that they beat the Tories to the proposal.

      The Bedroom Tax is a Westminster Tax originally introduced by the last Labour government to deal with the high cost of housing allowance in London but later made more draconian by Tories / Lib Dems.

      The then “deputy” leader of Labour in Scotland and MP for Glasgow Central, Anas Sarwar, was in Pakistan rather than voting against the bedroom tax in the House of Commons on 13th November. Ten of the 40 Scottish Labour MPs couldn’t be bothered to vote in the debate which was lost by only 26 votes.

      Scottish Labour MP’s who voted in favour of the Tory benefit cap by George Osborne on 26 March 2014 were:
      Margaret Curran – Glasgow East
      Tom Greatrex – Rutherglen and Hamilton West
      Ian Murray – Edinburgh South
      Willie Bain – Glasgow North East
      Gordon Banks – Ochil and South Perthshire
      Tom Clarke – Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill
      Dame Anne Begg – Aberdeen South
      Alistair Darling – Edinburgh South West
      Ian Davidson – Glasgow South West
      Thomas Docherty – Dunfermline and west Fife
      Frank Doran – Aberdeen North
      Gemma Doyle – West Dunbartonshire
      Sheila Gilmore – Edinburgh East
      David Hamilton – Midlothian
      Tom Harris – Glasgow South
      Jimmy Hood – Lanark and Hamilton East
      Cathy Jamieson – Kilmarnock and Loudon
      Mark Lazarowicz – Edinburgh North and Leith
      Gregg McClymont – Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East
      Anne McGuire – Stirling
      Anne McKechin – Glasgow North
      Iain McKenzie – Greeenock and Inverclyde
      Grahame Morris – Livingston
      Jim Murphy – East Renfrewshire
      Pamela Nash – Airdrie and Shotts
      Sandra Osborne – Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock
      John Robertson – Glasgow North West
      Frank Roy – Motherwell and Wishaw
      Lindsay Roy – Glenrothes
      Anas Sarwar – Glasgow Central
      Gordon Brown as usual failed to turn up

    22. caz-m says:

      A wee O/T, before I have to go back to work.

      Internet down on the rig all day yesterday. It comes back on today and I am greeted with the Ashcroft result for Paisley South and the beginning of the end for wee Dougie Alexander.

      Fracking brilliant news, I have been on his case for years and finally others are opening their eyes too.

      Can’t tell you how good this feels. I told him the last time I met him in Morrison’s, that I would do everything I could to kick him out.

      Well done on all the other results, The Murph is also finished.

      I know we are not there yet, but we are allowed a wee pat on the back now and again.

      God loves a trier. And God are we triers on here.

      We NEVER give up.

      Brilliant job again to everyone on Wings, well done.

    23. Joemcg says:

      Like that bit “the rest of the world will look on in shock” they already did that on the 19th.

    24. Sandra says:

      The Sun’s political editor, ex-public schoolboy Tom Newton Dunn, said on the Daily Politics yesterday that “people in the south hate the idea of the Scots calling the shots”. It’s Tory strategy to play on English fears of a parliament dominated by Scotland. And the Sun is simply pandering to that.

      The Scottish Sun has to take a different line or it won’t sell any papers up here.

    25. Fiona says:

      And don’t forget that Labour cooperated with the tories to make retrospective changes to the law on workfare, when IDS acted illegally in imposing sanctions on Caitlin Reilly. Shameful, but highly indicative of their respect for the rule of law

    26. Paula Rose says:

      Why aren’t the SNP standing in every constituency north of Hadrian’s Wall?

    27. ArtHetty says:

      What we have to remember is that some people, for whatever reason, (could be affordablility, or age or learning disability) do not have access to the internet so they do read this s***e and they are programmed to believe at least some of it, especially when it makes some other group/country the enemy.

      All part of the divide n rule tactic, it will work with some who are a tad gullible.

    28. Muscleguy says:

      The rest of the world is more likely to go ‘huh, those British seem to have really taken to coalition govt, finally’.

    29. CameronB Brodie says:

      I posted these in Off Topic last night, but apparently some folk still don’t pop their nebs in there. Anyhoo, I thought this might help explain the above. 😉

      New Labour and Beyond

      In the 1990s the Fabian Society came to be a major force in the modernisation of the Labour Party, building on its work from the 1980s and developing many of the ideas that would come to characterise New Labour.

      A New Constitution for the Labour Party was instrumental in the introduction of “one member, one vote” to party elections and contained the original recommendation for the replacement of Clause IV. The Fabians applied themselves to the challenges that Labour faced in building an election-winning coalition of voters and in the Southern Discomfort series pointed the way towards many of the changes that would take place and help Labour to its historic 1997 victory.

      After Tony Blair’s landslide victory in 1997, over 200 Fabians now sat in the House of Commons, including many of the Cabinet. However, the Fabian Society developed its role as a critical friend, supporting the Blair and Brown government’s in developing policy, without being afraid to draw attention to the omissions or shortcomings of the government.

      The advent of the Conservative-Lib Dem coalition government in 2010 again posed new challenges for the Society. It has renewed its focus on tackling the big issues facing policymakers including the future of the state and public services, and the creation of a more robust, balanced and equal economy. It has also applied itself to the task once again of defining and articulating the electoral strategy that Labour needs to regain power.

      http://www.fabians.org.uk/about/the-fabian-story/

      The Southern Discomfort pamphlets were a series of studies by Giles Radice published by the Fabian Society that examined attitudes towards the Labour Party in the south of England after the 1992 General Election defeat.[1] The studies found that voters in marginal constituencies were concerned about Labour’s lack of economic credibility and feared that their taxes would increase if Neil Kinnock had won in 1992. The pamphlets were influential in underscoring the need for Labour to appeal to “C1? and “C2? voters.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Discomfort_%28Fabian_Society_pamphlets%29

    30. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      I loved the 1970s.

    31. CameronB Brodie says:

      David Agnew

      to be honest, they have been doing that sort of thing for a long time. Saying one thing here and another thing down south. In an age of digital comms with news at the touch of a button, it does boggle the mind that they still think they can get away with it.

      The MSM got away with buckets loads of pish during the indyref, did they not?

      Roughly eight million of the ellectorate have no access to t’internet. I’m not sure how many of them live in key marginals though.

    32. Macart says:

      Its a mystery right enough.

      You’d think we lived in a separate country with specific societal needs, political viewpoints, definitive culture and history or some such. 🙂

    33. Nick Dunne says:

      Classic double bind, giving conflicting messages at the same time, which ultimately drives people and societies crazy. The solution is either to go mad, become delinquent or take a leap into a higher order of change, change the game.

      The referendum achieved this not by result, but by consciousness, of which the mainstream has, up to now, been blissfully unaware.

    34. Fiona says:

      Even those who do have the internet will not always see things like this. It depends on what you are interested in, and it seems to me that those who choose to buy the Sun are probably not seriously engaged with politics.

      I imagine that they get the paper and take in the editorial stance almost by osmosis: and the opinions they imbibe are then reinforced by what they hear on the more serious outlets they also access, like the BBC. The latter is less overtly rabid, and so they probably think that they are “not influenced” by the paper, as so many claim. From their point of view they have got information from two independent sources with different styles and values: so they do the british thing and come to believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Shame that the middle is the middle of such a narrow range, but that is hardly their fault.

    35. Almannysbunnet says:

      The Sun has gone from a weekly readership of 7.8 million to just over 5 million in 4 years. So out of a population of 64 million people around 5 million, and dropping, read the Sun. Assuming it’s largely the same people that read it every week is it even relevant anymore? I mean are all of those 5 million readers even going to vote, are those 5 million readers really likely to flip flop between parties base on what the Sun says? I’m sure they still have a huge influence on the politicians, mainly through fear, but I’m not so sure the public are that influenced by the Sun at election time. Then again I don’t read it so maybe I’m naive.
      As far as the dual headlines go, maybe it’s so they can keep up their proud boast of always supporting the winner at a general election. Not a hard thing to do in a two horse race with two opposing headlines. 🙂

      http://tinyurl.com/o7yq992

    36. call me dave says:

      Read if you want as long as you know it’s all a rip off.

      PS:
      Footie:
      Hids V Falkirk I’m Torn…anyhoo for the non-bbc or skyers starting now.

      http://www.crichd.tv/sky-sports-2-live-stream-cricfree-uk-free-hd.php

    37. Capella says:

      You are confusing the Sun with a newspaper. As they used to say in the US 2008 election primaries: do you believe what the media tell you or the evidence of your own lying eyes and ears?

    38. Mealer says:

      And what does the Daily Redcoat think? They think we,the Scots,are a bunch of dopes incapable of tying our own shoelaces.

    39. Dr Jim says:

      The creation of news for an agenda of their own…
      The whole of the media do it then hide behind the pretence of impartiality so as to keep the thick British public buying and believing their propaganda

      American news is easy, they tell you how biased towards one cause or another they are so you can select the news you feel reflects you

      It’s why Americans don’t know anything about politics or even geography, they don’t want to know, they think they’re the most important country in the world so who gives a flying F..K anyway,
      It’s Nigel Farage country

      The media have their political motives so it’s imperative the status quo is maintained Torie = Labour doesn’t matter really which is in power
      Even though if memory serves 30 out of 34 countries EU wide have coalition Governments it cannot be countenanced here in GB it’s horrific especially the “Non media friendly (Bribable) cannot be bought vile and honest SNP clever people”

      Although you’d think they’d get tons of mileage out of Nicola Sturgeon after all, discounting Thatcher she is Historic
      She’s young, vibrant, forthright,completely different from the accepted norm of British politics and a snappy dresser to boot
      What more do you want…. If you’re the Photy Journo in the Sun she’s a gift
      The world will be watching the Handshake outside number 10 when Nicola arrives for the talks so think on newspapers

      It’s going to happen (fingers crossed) so if you want to keep your sales up you know what to do
      Unlike the Daily Record….well…

    40. Dr Jim says:

      @Paula Rose

      We’re waiting for Nigel Farage to throw more money over to cover the exxs Paula..

    41. Almannysbunnet says:

      Just got a nifty wee fold out SNP election “poster” popped through my letter box. And I mean wee, it’s 10.5cm x 7.5cm (4″ x 3″ for us old folks.) It is the perfect size to fit in your wallet or top pocket. Brilliant bit of PR by someone at SNP. It’s got all the key messages, even a mini copy of the daily record vow. Back page “The SNP will play a constructive role in Westminster and bring ideas forward in a positive spirit.” Someone has just played a blinder!

    42. alexicon says:

      I see no problem with the 2 different approaches by the Scottish and the English editions of the Sun newspaper, it just goes to show the degree of autonomy the Scottish Sun really has.
      Now liken that to the Mirror and DR stance and you’ll see how the DR has no autonomy at all, just like Labour’s Scottish branch.

    43. desimond says:

      Rev for the last time…

      This Sun is small..that Sun is very far away.

      Scottish Sun, Scottish Labour..both branch offices of equal irrelevance

    44. Hobbit says:

      More actually, the split in Great Britain is between the south-east on one side; and on the other, the rest of England, and then Wales and Scotland.

      Slightly O/T:
      And even within Scotland, there is a huge difference in outlook between Edinburgh and even Glasgow. As I have observed before: as much as the SNP goes on about the inequalities between Scotland and England, it is the inequalities within Scotland that need attention all the more.

      What might be a medium-term strategy for the SNP, would be to stand candidates in northern English seats that Labour have regarded for years as their divine right.

    45. Grouse Beater says:

      Macart: Its a mystery right enough.

      Not to me.

      At the ‘information for cash and phone hacking’ enquiry Salmond made plain he approached Murdoch because it was his job to do so on hearing Murdoch planned to open an HQ in Scotland. Naturally, Salmond was keen to secure jobs for Scotland.

      Salmond denies any quid pro quo deal was done, but if true, (and I doubt it) then the Scottish Sun’s generous attitude to Scotland is Murdoch’s way of keeping faith – both he and Salmond despise the British Establishment – whilst ensuring he, Murdoch, holds the contrary view in the event of the UK all but eradicating Scotland’s aspirations, and its people accepting that fate.

      In other words, like Salmond knowing full well Murdoch’s odious reputation yet opening a dialogue with him just the same, Murdoch’s shows he too can be mercenary in pursuit of monetary profit and power.

      I fully understand Salmond’s motivation. In his book ‘100 Days’ he states he has talked to Murdoch on any number of occasions. The moral question is whether one believes pragmatism allows for anything to be acceptable if it helps regain Scotland’s autonomy, or whether some things should be avoided or prohibited.

      If anybody knows of a more logical explanation of such a blatant public contradiction made by the same newspaper I’m happy to hear it.

    46. bjsalba says:

      Can someone get a copy of this and put it up in every chippie and fast food outlet in the Liverpool FC area. They know from bitter experience how the Sun lies.

      It would be nice if a list of the othe Murdoch titles were added at the bottom.

    47. Scooter says:

      I would have thought the answer was too obvious for words, really. The Sun is doing what it does best, stirring up tension between people in order to create division. Does anybody actually think that there is no editorial contact between the two editions of the same rag. The utterly vile Daily Mail is playing the same game.

      The media control opinion. Maybe not amongst the free thinkers who visit this site but enough to manipulate the minds of the Top Gear and Big Brother psychographic population.

      Trying to get the English to hate the Scots. Divide and rule.

      Information control is mind control.

    48. Robert Peffers says:

      @ArtHetty says: 18 April, 2015 at 11:45 am:

      “What we have to remember is that some people, for whatever reason, (could be affordablility, or age or learning disability) do not have access to the internet.

      Sheesh! Please engage brain before typing fingers, ArtHetty!

      Doing so will expose the simple fact that if it were not for we older persons there wouldn’t be computers never mind the internet. Who the hell did you think it was that was inventing transistors, integrated circuits, BIOS Systems, and how to use binary way back then?

      It sure wasn’t the not then yet conceived or born numpties. Nor was it like those in the group of numpties serving apprenticeships around the same time as myself who thought me stupid when we were talking about going to the moon and I predicted to the year when it would happen.

      The truth is there will be as large a proportion of brain dead numpties born this very day as were being born when computer science first began. Just as if not for such as I who believed in Scottish independence in the years just after WWII there wouldn’t be a Scottish National Party today. Believe me it was much, much harder back then to keep the faith.

    49. Jock McDonnell says:

      I said here before, keep your eyes on Paisley South. Watch those ballot boxes & postal votes, losing that seat is an existential threat to SLAB.

      On the Sun, I’m relaxed about 2 different editorial policies. Of course we need to keep a little scepticism but anything which makes Scottish media distinct is progress I think.

    50. Taranaich says:

      I’m getting really bloody fed up of right-wing publications claiming that it’s “socialism” that caused the problems in the 1970s (as opposed to endemic corruption, incompetence and right-wing ideas like payment caps and limits on pay rises) and the recession (as opposed to the banks running rampant and the resultant bailout). The mantra that it was spending in and of itself which caused the recession – not, you know, spending money on all the wrong things – just serves the Austerity agenda.

      Guess what? When you’re spending money refurbishing the House of Lords gym, the shooting range, and the restaurants, you don’t get to criticize people who want the government to spend money on the starving and vulnerable instead. You don’t need your duck islands and moats and third mansions. Starving people need food.

      You gigantic, worthless, hateful hypocrites.

    51. GusI says:

      Sorry but O/T

      Has anyone been able to download a copy of the Scottish Labour manifesto? The link on the BBC report of the launch gives you the UK manifesto and on the Scottish labour site you can only read it. Thanks.

    52. rosa alba macdonald says:

      Bought and sold for anyone’s gold: The Sun is devoid of principles. The group is anteing up in their Editions Nor and Sou to what sells papers. Playing to the polls/worse fears.

      In Scotland the fear factor will no longer sell…. they need to people please and pitch it to the crowd. In England Project Fear is alive and well – pitching to fear titillates and sensationalises.

      In thon polls you did of the differences Nor and Sou of Berwick – the question not asked was of response to Sensatiolism. I do not think Scots respond well in our bullish way to Sensationalism. Or maybe even Project Fear (except as being naysayers in a door IAM Jolly way) that much. I still think the Vow of Honest (ha), Solid, Dependable, Manse Born Gordie swung it.

    53. bjsalba says:

      Blair/Milliband’s biggest mistake was to think they could get into power by wooing the vote of the middle class in England.

      There is a report by Benjamin Hennig and Danny Dorling of the School of Geography and the Environment at the University of Oxford. It was featured in the Guardian under the headline “How 30 years of a polarised economy have squeezed out the middle class ” http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/07/vanishing-middle-class-london-economy-divide-rich-poor-england

      England is increasingly divided between the rich and the poor, with a 60% increase in poor households and a 33% increase in wealthy households. This has come at a time – 1980 to 2010 – when the number of middle-income households went down by 27%.

      But the trend is most marked in London, according to an analysis of census data by Benjamin Hennig and Danny Dorling of the School of Geography and the Environment at the University of Oxford. Over the three decades, the capital has seen an 80% increase in poor households, an 80% increase in wealthy households – and a 43% decrease in middle households. Around 36% of London households are now classified as poor (up from 20% in 1980), while 37% are middle income (down from 65%).

      It is not a smart move to abandon a growing market for a shrinking one.

    54. manandboy says:

      If my eighty-seven year old Mother-in-law can be said to be typical of that demographic, then never discount the ‘force of habit’. She is fully aware of the top twenty reasons for NOT buying the Daily Record, but, undeterred, she insists on getting it every day. ‘The habit of a lifetime’ – we all have them.

      I personally think it is more to do with what level one is at. As the level of one’s education or work experience rises, so too, broadly, does one’s choice of newspaper and indeed television channel.

      The Daily Record and the Sun know precisely the level of their readers as does the Herald and the Guardian. Content then to suit with language to boot

    55. hindmost says:

      What is truly bizarre about the stance taken by these newspapers is that they seem to think that Milliband could stop SNP MPs voting in favour of a Labour Queens speech.

    56. Tam Jardine says:

      Brian Wilson’s piece in the Scotsman is strange. He seems to think everyone who will vote SNP are imbeciles, taken in by ‘rhetoric’, who believe in ‘bunkum’ and take everything the SNP says at face value without question.

      They are only interested in increasing the ‘seperateness’ of Scotland and have forgotten (presumably he means the good?) labour has done for working people in the past.

      Blame the voters, just like Farage. How insulting. The Scottish electorate are well capable of seeing through the fog of political discourse and making a reasoned decision. It may even be, Mr Wilson that the electorate is not ill disposed towards the Scottish Government after 8 years, no?

      It’s all nativity, stupidity and fanaticism for Mr Wilson.

      I would love him to, for a moment put himself in the position of the SNP leadership. If Mr Wilson were advising Ms Sturgeon what would that advice have been? Deliberately lose the election to assist Labour winning in May?

      Had they not fought this campaign with every fibre of their being I would have cut up my membership card. Had they not been pushing to have influence in the UK parliament I would no longer be a member.

      Perhaps Mr Wilson should stop obsessing on why the evil separatists are duping so many honest voters and instead focus his intellectual capacity on why his party are failing. He will have to face this strange situation sooner or later. He could even write an article about it.

      Articles predicting an SNP deal with the Conservatives are an embarrassment for reader and writer alike.

      https://archive.today/v9Fj2

    57. Robert Peffers says:

      @Taranaich says: 18 April, 2015 at 12:54 pm:

      ” … Guess what? When you’re spending money refurbishing the House of Lords gym, the shooting range, and the restaurants, you don’t get to criticize people who want the government to spend money on the starving and vulnerable instead. You don’t need your duck islands and moats and third mansions. Starving people need food.

      You gigantic, worthless, hateful hypocrites.

      I’ll vote that comment of the day, Taranaich.

    58. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tam Jardine says: 18 April, 2015 at 1:28 pm:

      ” … Perhaps Mr Wilson should stop obsessing on why the evil separatists are duping so many honest voters and instead focus his intellectual capacity on why his party are failing.”

      Ach! Tam, are you not assuming far too much?

      What evidence is there that Mr Wilson actually has any intellectual capacity that’s worthy of consideration?

      The man is totally unsighted by blind hate and loathing of the SNP. Like many other Labourites he has never come to terms that their unshakable belief that the Labour Party Scottish fiefdom was carved in stone.

    59. thedogphilosopher says:

      I still feel there is a need for a satirical Scottish publication a la Private Eye (minus its Old-School-Tie slantedness, obviously) where This Kind of Thing© can be exposed, deconstructed and mocked mercilessly.

      Not unlike what this site does every day but only ever read by those and such as those.

      © Father Ted

    60. Macnakamura says:

      bjsalba says:
      18 April, 2015 at 1:09 pm
      Blair/Milliband’s biggest mistake was to think they could get into power by wooing the vote of the middle class in England.
      ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.
      Even further back …….. Kinnock spent his time shedding left and left of centre friends to please his enemies on the right only to find that he had fewer friends but just as many enemies.

    61. Dair says:

      While these sort of things are fine to highlight for papers which share an editorial across the border (Mail, Express, Telegraph), it’s not really a criticism of The Sun. It has and is quite open about having a different editorial stance in Scotland and rUK.

    62. Croompenstein says:

      @Tam

      Wilson could be a real donkey in all this nativity 😀

    63. Fiona says:

      @ Macnakamura

      I agree. That was when the labour party started letting the tories run their party. It was all downhill from then on. We see it now: tories telling labour who they may and may not make a deal with; tories telling labour how to organise their internal affairs.

      Do not forget the role of the gang of 4, either. Polly Toynbee, often put forward as a “left winger”, was a prominent member of that precurser of Nulabour. Course she speaks out of both sides of her mouth on that: but there is no doubt that she and her kind are largely responsible for turning the labour party into tories.

    64. Wired of Hermiston says:

      It’s quite simple. The Scottish Sun has supported the SNP since 2007 and has an independent editorial line to the English version. Yes, it takes some of the content from down south, but the support is genuine, not some sort of conspiracy. Doubtless it suits their commercial imperative but newspapers are not charities.

    65. Robert Peffers says:

      Streets O Glesca.
      (Tune, “Streets of London”).

      Have you seen Brian Wilson in the soon to close Scotsman,
      Writing in that paper with his worn out views.
      In his eyes you see no pride
      In hands held loosely by his side
      Are yesterday’s Scotsman printing bullshite as news.

      Chorus.

      So how can you tell me you’ll vote Labour,
      Yet say that for you the SUN is shite?
      Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of Glesca
      I’ll show you something to make you change your mind

      Have you seen the old Magrit,
      Who walks the streets of Glesca
      Dirt in her mind and her lungs stained with fags?
      She’s nae much time for talking,
      but noo just keeps on talking
      Carrying postal vote papers in two carrier bags.

      Ch.

      In the all night cafe
      At a quarter past eleven,
      Same old Brian sitting there on his own
      Looking at the world
      Over the rim of his tea-cup,
      Each tea last an hour
      Then Brian walks home alone

      Ch.

      And have you seen the old Brian,
      Pushing Labour’s mission
      Memory fading like,
      The Red Rosette that he wears.
      In our Scottish city,
      The rain it cries a little bitty
      For one forgotten zero
      In a land that couldn’t care

      Ch.

    66. Tam Jardine says:

      Croompenstein

      Well spotted. Nativity indeed. As in birth. I like that. And I’m a native, a naive native ergo my nativity.

      What’s that we can hear Croomps? If you pit your haun to yer ear and really listen? Is that ane auld sang piping up?

      Robert Peffers

      Perhaps I credit Brian Wilson with more intellectual capacity than he deserves but I try not to make the mistake labour make and assume everyone on the other side of the argument is stupid.

      Scratch that- if I’m being honest Robert, I like to credit the enemy with intelligence in this way purely because I am a very sarcastic person and it pleases me. It doesn’t always come through loud and clear when I post but.

    67. Effijy says:

      I read that paper, but promise that someone else bought it.
      It is so tragically pathetic that stuck up snobs really believe it is their right to own the plebs and they are shocked that we won’t take telling as to what is good for us.

      Every Mail “Writer” appears to be obliged to trump each others bile and rage at sweaty socks potentially have a say in how the country is ran.

      If you area female elitist with a job at the paper, it is your divine right to say what every other woman in the UK must think?

      Nicola most certainly isn’t Thatcher as she has a heart and a head. I heard through the grapevine that Maggie was in fact a man and “Denise” had the twins.
      She was such a heartless bully he would need to do anything “he” was told or the house keeping money would be cut?

      Wasn’t it lucky we managed to get their son back from his car race through the desert for a little of £2,000,000 cost of having a foreign air force searching for him?

      Wasn’t it lucky the company he worked with won a £30 million project financed by the UK to put a Dam in Malaysia?

      Wasn’t it lucky we got him back from the African Coop he tried to take control of the country’s assets?

      What would we have done with all that money, if the elite wasn’t around to abuse it?

    68. Jean-Loup says:

      SUN means Spewing Utter Nonsense right?

    69. Casper1066 says:

      Wow, still at it. Its a bit stupid really. Its like they haven’t figured out the internet yet, or think others haven’t. Wont change my mind at all, I don’t read this rag.

    70. geeo says:

      The only Sun of interest is the bright warm thing out today…!

      Go Bairns, lets hope its a falkirk v sneckie final, another friendly final to go and enjoy!.

      Sunstroke and malt….i feel a song coming on…

    71. Yoda says:

      I don’t like the sun

    72. Ian Orr says:

      Errrr. Possibly because the Scottish edition isn’t told what to do be London?

    73. Derick fae Yell says:

      I have read this site almost from the beginning. I have never been to Off Topic because I can’t find it. Where’s the link please?

    74. Tam Jardine says:

      Derick fae Yell

      In the middle column of the page there are lists of links – under the heading ‘Zany comic relief’ you will find off topic

    75. @Derick fae Yell.

      It took me a wee while to find Off Topic as well.

      It´s second bottom of the list under “Zany Comedy Relief”

      Enjoy

    76. Derick fae Yell says:

      Tam and Stewart – thank you!

    77. Paula Rose says:

      @ Derick fae Yell

      I’ve just finished tidying the place up dear, so please be careful.

    78. Wilma Watts says:

      The Sun is doing what it really wants to do.It supports the Conservative Party in England and SNP in Scotland. If the SNP do get a huge number of MPS the Sun can claim victory here. If the Tories win they can claim victory in England. They will get the desired result: the SNP will have no power over the new government. That is what they want But they can claim that they supported the SNP in Scotland.

    79. Wired of Hermiston says:

      @wilmawatts

      But they DO support the SNP! They’re not pretending!

    80. Dave Hunter says:

      Just like 1745, London is panicing and we haven’t even invaded this time.

      It seems down here (Derby) and further south that the English think Scots should only vote for the English parties and then accept EVEL as Scots MPs after all are second class and Scotland should know its place!

      I have to vote Labour as I don’t want the Tory chipmunk in again but bon chance mes amis!



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