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The usual suspect

Posted on March 17, 2018 by

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    630 to “The usual suspect”

    1. Does anyone know who won the Russian presidential election ?

    2. Morgatron says:

      Well said William Wallace. Trolls disappear and spout your pish somewhere else.

    3. Fred says:

      @ Nana, thanks for the Alexei Salmond link, slaughtering BBC paid stooge John Sweeney.

    4. Capella says:

      @ Nana – glad you’re posting links again! That’s an excellent analysis by Peter Bell of the dangerous consequences of BREXIT.
      Imagine if the MSM published this instead of the rubbish they churn out daily. WoS and the other indy bloggers are a great resource.

      https://peterabell.blog/2018/03/18/beware-of-britnats/

    5. William Wallace says:

      @ Bill Hume

      “Those that engage them” are by and large, doing exactly the same thing. Not just planning but, planning to take action.

      Are you suggesting that we just ignore people who are downright abusive to posters like Liz? (one of the kindest folk on here who always takes the time to care about and ask after others)

      Normally, I would agree with you and tend to avoid the trolling types but, having lurked for most of this year and observed rather than contributed, I have noticed that discussion is being so disrupted that it is actually becoming increasingly difficult to follow. The whole ignore them and they will go away philosophy is clearly not working right now.

      I love the contributions of many BTL posters here (and I certainly learn a lot) but, the signal to noise ratio is rather low at the moment due to the actions of a small number of posters here. I’ve noticed more and more posters “taking a break” recently and I would guess that they too are growing increasingly tired of the same old, same old every single night.

    6. Clootie says:

      ((((((Shiver))))))

      “Some Democrats think that launching a new Cold War will solve the problem of polarization by unifying the country against a foreign enemy and isolating Republicans who stand with Trump in appeasing Russia. “The Democrats should and must start using Russia as a way to break through the vicious cycle consuming the parties, Washington, and the whole country,” John Stoehr argued in Washington Monthly”

      Hard to believe a political party would put World peace at risk for their advantage….it could never happen here…could it!

    7. Fred says:

      What William Wallace said!

    8. Ottomanboi says:

      It’s all about England; Brexit, those spies and oligarchs, Ruth Davidson’s baking.
      Time Scots stopped living in someone else’s creation.
      Ditch the Brits, be a nation.

    9. Nana says:

      Morning Fred, aye Alex had Sweeney spluttering but but but look at RT, don’t look at the BBC….deflect and blame everyone and their dog but not the BBC.

      @Capella, don’t know what we would do without the real indy bloggers. I know I wouldn’t have any hair left for sure!

    10. Robert J Sutherland says:

      I’ve not been posting for a few days as I’ve been recovering from a bad case of deafness caused by listening to the sound of furious axe grinding in an echo chamber on here.

      And meditating on something schrodingers cat wrote the other day, about how getting the next (say) 10% converted to indy is going to be a lot harder than getting this far. Which I agree with, not especially for the reason he gave, since I do believe that IR1 was an educational process and a crossing of the threshold for many (including yours truly), but just because it’s in the nature of things (and people). And if WoS is worth anything it has been in continuing to help make that happen.

      So I’m judging the responses from the Putin fanclub on here with that in mind. Everyone has their own reasons for wanting independence, but I seriously doubt that the 10% we’re looking to win over are going to be convinced by the kind of stuff that has been passing for argument on here these last few days. On the contrary. It’s been like observing the kneejerk reaction of a bunch of religious fundamentalists when one of their dogmas has been challenged by events.

      We’ve had:

      + victim blaming (never mind the ex-spook, there’s his – presumably innocent – daughter and the cop)

      + attacking Nicola and others in the SNP for being apostates of the True Religion

      + conjuring up reams of pure ill-informed speculation as if it were actual fact.

      I could go on. The fact of the matter is that up till now we, the poorly-informed public, don’t have a clue about what really happened, so the wise course would surely have been to keep our counsel until events become clearer. The best inkling we have so far is that the vile poison somehow came in the daughter’s luggage. Maybe Corbyn is right and the origin is somewhere else in the Russian security-mafia state, not that that helps.

      When a country is attacked in a contemptible and dangerous way like this, the natural reaction of ordinary people isn’t to rally in favour of a “badly-misunderstood” foreign government, it’s to “circle the wagons” and rally behind the government of the day, whatever the politics. So I ask you: is shouting out loud in automatic support of the Putin regime going to help or hinder the cause of independence? How is that in any way going to get us that 10%, people who have at least some continuing residual attachment to the UK state?

      This has been an unseemly reaction like a bunch of Pavlov’s dogs. Helplessly suckered into someone else’s play. But this issue just isn’t our dog fight, so why are some people so determined to get us involved in it anyway?

      The only hint of relevance to us that I found in this whole business was a quick change of emphasis from Boris of all people, when he literally switched mid-sentence from saying “UK” to “EU” in an attempt to invoke more support. Yet it’s his bunch of morons that are casting us all, down south as well as here, into the outer darkness of isolationism. If this business signifies anything at all of relevance for us, it’s that a small country needs lots of good friends.

      I got very angry at first at all this, but now I’m just so, so, very disappointed at the immaturity of some of you out there. Preferring to push your own political prejudices instead of thinking about that all-important 10%.

      Lastly, about the cartoon itself. Cartoons can be a very effective visual way of revealing a fundamental truth, especially for people who otherwise are not in the least interested in politics. This latest one, Chris, would have been a brilliant example of that if there had been something concrete out there in the public domain that revealed UK government complicity in all this. But there hasn’t been, and likely never will be because it just isn’t true. So what we have here is mere “playing to the gallery”, a cartoon that is not revealing a truth in the best WoS tradition but actually telling a lie. Mere propaganda.

      Not Wings best days ever, I have to say.

      Now, can we please get back to winning-over that crucial 10%…?

    11. Capella says:

      @ William Wallace – I agree. I too give it a miss if I see an endless series of troll posts and replies. But discussing it on here is not the answer. An email to Stu, using the Contact button on the header, is what he advises. I’ve done it over a previous nuisance. He may not respond instantly.

      Liz g is targeted because she contributes many thoughtful comments on the constitutional issues IMO. Disrupting that is clearly a priority for Britnats. Let’s not help them.

    12. Ken500 says:

      Please be aware. It is not compulsary to read this comment. Trolls just pass on by. Thanks.

      Boris Johnston is one of the biggest lying crooks on the planet. Impossible to believe a word he says. A known liar, Just look up his Wikipedia. It gives a clue to his character. A flawed intellect of betrayal. He has got form. He even disclosed someone’s address to a person so they could make a violent attack He should have been charged. Got a criminal conviction. Not been able to stand as a candidate.

      Murdoch (a warmonger liar, responsible for inciting war) even sacked Johnston for telling lies. Johnston worked for the Barclay Bros Telegraph. The non Dom tax evading criminals. They should have been exposed for fraud long ago. Only UK residents are supposed to hold shares floated on the stock exchange. They get around it by proxy. Right wing toxicity. They should know a thing about gas.

      Why an individual like Johnston was ever made Foreign Secretary is a mystery. If only to cause further trouble in the world. A diversion from the disaster of the Tories policies and the continued crooked tax evasion. Let by the one of the biggest crooked liars. Every time May opens her mouth it is a lie. Not adequate for the job. An impossible task.

      May and the Hedge fund owner, Hatchet without any empathy. Killing and maiming people all over. Including the citizens they are supposed to be caring for and aiding. Never away from the Church. To decry the devil. The Devil is in the detail of gross mismanagement and extravagance. Delusions of grandeur, superiority and paranoia. Dangerous psycho bastards, Now being found out,

      Rees Mogg is just a greedy parasite. His mother in law got taxpayers money, a grant, to do up a manor. Multimillionaires on the take. Westminster unionists are illegally starving people. Wasting public money on grotesque projects of no value. No one wants. Without a mandate. Colluding with developers to embezzle public money to line the associates pockets for fees, expenses and donations. .

      The Westminster cabinet and Gov . A cabel of assorted crooks and criminals Dishonoured bankers and embezzlers. Misusing public funds in order to line their associate pockets with mismanaged and misappropriated public money. They certainly take the biscuit and want have their cake and eat it but starve everyone else. ‘Let them eat cake’ they cry as they stuff their trough with tax evade embezzled public money. Greedy troughing, imbecile incumbents who even hog the pig. Cruel. Depriving gruel.

      How long can this farce go on. Until the pantomime season. Or will they be gone before the year is out. Another illegal invasion. Trump is not having it. May, Johnston and the rest of them staggering on alone. Pathetic, Their sycophants in Scotland trying to destroy Holyrood and the limited democracy. It has ever been thus but Scottish citizens can change things. Just vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Vote for prosperity, equality and happiness to improve the world. It can be done. Take someone along for the ride. ‘Walking back to happiness’ Expected in the 1960’s.

      Scotland needs a central bank. It is being done but get to it.

      Girth the judge of political endeavour? Cyril Smith the child molester. Or a thin decrepit one. Jimmy Saville the biggest child sex predator of them all. Both protected by Westminster unionists. To continue their crimes. Disgraceful.

      Size might not be a good indicator of the qualities and attitude of a politician after all. Otherwise Johnston would take the biscuit, cake and eat it all. The Tories – unionists at Westminster are eating themselves. Leaving others starving. An act of considerable illegal folly, along with Brexit.

    13. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I’ve not been posting for a few days as I’ve been recovering from a bad case of deafness caused by listening to the sound of furious axe grinding in an echo chamber on here. (Maybe just one of the people William Wallace was referring-to in his recent posting.)

      And meditating on something schrodingers cat wrote the other day, about how getting the next (say) 10% converted to indy is going to be a lot harder than getting this far. Which I agree with, not especially for the reason he gave, since I do believe that IR1 was an educational process and a crossing of the threshold for many (including yours truly), but just because it’s in the nature of things (and people). And if WoS is worth anything it has been in continuing to help make that happen.

      So I’m judging the responses from the Putin fanclub on here with that in mind. Everyone has their own reasons for wanting independence, but I seriously doubt that the 10% we’re looking to win over are going to be convinced by the kind of stuff that has been passing for argument on here these last few days. On the contrary. It’s been like observing the kneejerk reaction of a bunch of religious fundamentalists when one of their dogmas has been challenged by events.

      We’ve had:

      + victim blaming (never mind the ex-spook, there’s his – presumably innocent – daughter and the cop)

      + attacking Nicola and others in the SNP for being apostates of the True Religion

      + conjuring up reams of pure ill-informed speculation as if it were actual fact.

      I could go on. The fact of the matter is that up till now we, the poorly-informed public, don’t have a clue about what really happened, so the wise course would surely have been to keep our counsel until events become clearer. The best inkling we have so far is that the vile poison somehow came in the daughter’s luggage. Maybe Corbyn is right and the origin is somewhere else in the Russian security-mafia state, not that that helps.

      When a country is attacked in a contemptible and dangerous way like this, the natural reaction of ordinary people isn’t to rally in favour of a “badly-misunderstood” foreign government, it’s to “circle the wagons” and rally behind the government of the day, whatever the politics. So I ask you: is shouting out loud in automatic support of the Putin regime going to help or hinder the cause of independence? How is that in any way going to get us that 10%, people who have at least some continuing residual attachment to the UK state?

      This has been an unseemly reaction like a bunch of Pavlov’s dogs. Helplessly suckered into someone else’s play. But this issue just isn’t our dog fight, so why are some people so determined to get us involved in it anyway?

      The only hint of relevance to us that I found in this whole business was a quick change of emphasis from Boris of all people, when he literally switched mid-sentence from saying “UK” to “EU” in an attempt to invoke more support. Yet it’s his bunch of morons that are casting us all, down south as well as here, into the outer darkness of isolationism. If this business signifies anything at all of relevance for us, it’s that a small country needs lots of good friends.

      I got very angry at first at all this, but now I’m just so, so, very disappointed at the immaturity of some of you out there. Preferring to push your own political prejudices instead of thinking about that all-important 10%.

      Lastly, about the cartoon itself. Cartoons can be a very effective visual way of revealing a fundamental truth, especially for people who otherwise are not in the least interested in politics. This latest one, Chris, would have been a brilliant example of that if there had been something concrete out there in the public domain that revealed UK government complicity in all this. But there hasn’t been, and likely never will be because it just isn’t true. So what we have here is mere “playing to the gallery”, a cartoon that is not revealing a truth in the best WoS tradition but actually telling a lie. Mere propaganda.

      Not Wings best days ever, I have to say.

      Now, can we please get back to winning-over that crucial 10%…?

    14. Ken500 says:

      Who says size and looks matters in politics. Supposed to reflect society. They who are the first ones to throw stones. People in glass houses. Kettles Pot boiling over.

    15. manandboy says:

      Listened to half an hour up to 10.30am this morning of BBC Radio 5 live and the Emma Barnett show with Ann Foster presenting the Observer and Guardian investigations into Cambridge Analytica by Carole Cadwalladr.

      It was noticeable that Ann Foster was in BBC/Tory defend mode as the conversation was never allowed to stray into Analytica’s influence on recent UK elections.

      So the question arises, is Skripal actually the cover for Analytica and the rigging of the last three ballots in the UK – IndyRef14, EURef16 and GE2017.

    16. Legerwood says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      19 March, 2018 at 9:56 am
      Does anyone know who won the Russian presidential election?””
      …………………

      Thingymajig, you know, the one with the bad BOTOX job and Cuban heels.
      Whatshisname again? He was a shoo-in – that’s it: Putin

    17. Bob Mack says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland,

      Have you ever heard the old Chinese proverbs of “The 36 Strategies” ?. These are the rules for winning conflicts.

      Number 6 consists of 6 steps for advancing forward. It advises replacing the enemies strong timbers with rotten wood.

      In the case of Wings and it’s contributors that means disrupting the flow, sowing dissent, taking sides, creating diversions, pitting one against the other, raising anxiety.

      Here on Wings we have many opinions, but ultimately only one aim. To win independence. Our opponents , some of whom post on here will try to prise us apart and create division. Have they succeeded ?

    18. Capella says:

      Interesting Sceptics analysis of how he BBC doctored a report on Putin to make it look as if he was threatening to kill tractors. This is then reproduced throughout the MSM.

      RJS – I would argue that press manipulation of the truth IS our business. If the public are fed a diet of lies and false flags then exposing that is worth while IMO.

      In 2014 it was done to prevent Scottish independence. In 2016 it was done to promote BREXIT. In 2018 it threatens world peace, which is very much our business. It is ongoing, everyday propaganda.

      Once people see through “The Big Lie” they never swoon back into a state of belief.

      Link from a comment on Craig Murray’s blog.
      http://archive.is/FwuoQ

    19. heraldnomore says:

      Never before has the scrolling wheel on the mouse been more useful.

    20. galamcennalath says:

      ” U.K. Officials Said to Consider Transition Agreed “

      Seems likely because there was broad UK/EU agreement on this.

      However ….

      ” …. any agreement reached at the summit this week will be a political commitment — not legally binding until the final withdrawal agreement is signed early next year.”

      …. which almost certainly means they have the Irish Border to sort out. And that is a big problem for TMay.

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-19/u-k-officials-said-to-consider-transition-agreed-brexit-update

    21. Dr Jim says:

      Ruth Davidson wants Alex Salmonds “Kremlin channel” (RT) banned
      and she makes statements like this using a channel (BBC) that demands money from the British public under the guise of a licence fee or criminal prosecution will ensue to demand this

      David Leask says the SNP have boycotted the channel (RT), well I’m a member of the SNP and nobody in the SNP told me what I could watch or look at

      RT is licenced and under the control of OFCOM and pays its taxes to HMRC
      Fox news is broadcast into our homes if we want to watch it I don’t hear them calling for that to be banned

      There are books the Tories don’t like, will demands be made to bring them out into the street for the burning next or will they just want SNP members to to be gathered up and taken somewhere far away (The Scottish solution)

      If middle ground folks out there can’t see that the behaviour that Westminster denounces is the very behaviour they employ to make you afraid of it

      Westminster refers to voters as *Sheeple* why do voters think that is?
      The SNP asks questions of the electorate, Westminster tells you what answers they demand of you by making you afraid of the questions

    22. heedtracker says:

      Thank you for coffee time links Nana!

      Sun is shining here in Glasgow, trolls have gone, are these two things related.

      Thanks again!

    23. galamcennalath says:

      @me at 11:26

      ” EU readies Brexit transition deal, Ireland seeks border assurance “

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu/eu-readies-brexit-transition-deal-ireland-seeks-border-assurance-idUSKBN1GV16R

      Everything revolves around the Irish border, though the loyal BritNat media will go quiet on that aspect.

    24. Meg merrilees says:

      Liz g.

      My remark last night @ 11.17pm was not directed at you in any way.

    25. heedtracker says:

      Robert J. Sutherland, that’s a great read but you know they’re actually not morons right, once you get away from political “knockabout” stuff. With their tory corrupt BBC led media, they are carefully playing events to suit their pretty specific purposes, just like the Colonel is today, all the UK press in Scotland.

      “Yet it’s his bunch of morons that are casting us all, down south as well as here, into the outer darkness of isolationism. If this business signifies anything at all of relevance for us, it’s that a small country needs lots of good friends.”

      “Ruth Davidson has called for Russia Today (RT), the network that broadcasts Alex Salmond’s television programme, to be banned in the UK as the SNP faced further pressure over its response to the former First Minister’s position. The Scottish Conservative leader said RT was peddling “soft-sell propaganda” in a bid to “poison our public discourse” and called for a crackdown.”

      Even more tory bullshit at: scotsman.com/news/politics/ruth-thecolonel.com

    26. heedtracker says:

      Playing the game Daily Record The Vow style. Saw this and thought of Dave McEwan-Hill. Don’t check the date first. Also, check out the ad in cyrillic over the headline. What on earth is really going on out there internet wise. Should we forget Gaelic road signs and get Russian:D

      https://archive.is/yISD0

      Don’t be fooled by the ‘please don’t leave us’ rubbish in the next IndyRef – John Niven
      John says a recent train journey let him see how Scotland is viewed down south and hopes people aren’t fooled by the fake pleas to stay in the UK in the next referendum.

    27. galamcennalath says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland
      at 10:36

      I agree with much of what you say, specifically….

      – criticism of Nicola was unfounded. I think she handled the situation well. She said ‘one the evidence she had seen’, which means it was a fair judgement. If there’s more evidence appears then a sensible person can review their position. Also, as a privy councillor we don’t know what she has seen.

      – I think anyone speaking out in favour of Putin is at the very least naive and foolish. He does not head the only aggressive imperialist country, true, but if we reject imperialist from one we should reject from all. Our enemy’s enemy is NOT anyone’s friend.

      … and you are right that neither if these is going to convert many NOs.

      However, I disagree about the cartoon.

      For me it says … TMay claims the bear did it because there are some foot prints. However, in the bushes we see the possibility that the footprints could have been done in another way i.e. seeing footprints in the snow is weak evidence the bear did it.

      I think, in its symbolic way, that is exactly the position we are in. As has been pointed out the official claim is something like ‘of a type developed by Russia’. Which seems correct, but is a far cry from ‘Russia did it’.

      However the WM gov are milking this for all it’s worth as a deflection tactic, even when by their own language ‘ it has vague connections to bears’.

      IMO they are deflecting from the Brexit fiasco and that in turn is completely tied into Scottish constitutional issues. It’s the tactic which needs attacked, and sides between Russia and WM needn’t be take, shouldn’t be taken.

    28. heedtracker says:

      I for one do not welcome our Russian gangster state over lords, but could they be any worse than planet toryboy, what uses our country as their private nuke dump because their atom bombs are much to deadly to be kept in England.

      But I am willing to try,

      https://www.duolingo.com/course/ru/en/Learn-Russian-Online

      Bite-sized Russian lessons. Fun, effective, and 100% free.

      Just be very careful what your actually biting though.

    29. Dan Huil says:

      From Irish Times:

      “Ireland has been pressing for assurances from Britain that it would, if necessary, accept a “backstop” solution for the Border, contained in the draft treaty.

      Today’s deal will state that the backstop will only apply in the absence of any other solution to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland.

      Britain has said the backstop, effectively putting Northern Ireland under EU economic control separate from London, is completely unacceptable.”

      So, I think that means there could be another temporary fudge and another can kicked down the road concerning Ireland. If correct the point given in the middle paragraph above will be crucial. Does it mean if Ireland and the EU turn down every other solution offered then the “backstop” must be applied and the north of Ireland will in effect remain in the EU? Hope so.

    30. Macart says:

      @galamckennalath

      The Irish border does get all the press but its not HMGs only headache. Gibraltar, Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man may provide the odd headache or two.

      It’s a pickle for them.

    31. heedtracker says:

      Here they come. My Slovene girlfriend leading the assault.

      https://archive.is/x07KD

      Tories bid to outflank SNP in post-Brexit powers row with ‘Union guarantee’

      Adam Tomkins, the Scottish Conservatives’ constitution spokesman said: “The rest of the UK is Scotland’s biggest marketplace. Whatever else happens with Brexit, we must ensure we do nothing that damages access to it.”

      Fact that Prof Smirky’s reached for Project Fear 2 so soon in the debate, gives as clear an indicator as any how close this union is now to ending.

    32. Macart says:

      @galamcennalath

      Apologies for the errant ‘k’.

    33. Nana says:

      A fine day here in the Highlands Heedy.

      Ah now you could be onto something here relating to trolls. Are they averse to daylight like vampires eh, only around in the dark 🙂

      Have a final link for today, unless something unexpected happens

      Draft agreement transition deal published

      https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/draft-agreement-withdrawal-united-kingdom-great-britain-and-northern-ireland-european-union-and-european-atomic-energy-community-0_en

    34. Confused says:

      re: comment from manandboy @ 11.09
      – that’s probably the most interesting thing anyone has said for days due to this tedious trollstorm weather. Please investigate and expand. Follow the white rabbit down the hole!

      I don’t think Cambridge Analytica are doing anything that special though – the deep state/spooks will already have this stuff, or better – I know this because about 10 years ago I was looking at job postings for GCHQ/MOD – it was all data science, graph theory, machine learning; such software has been written some time ago and fed straight from the hosepipe. Something like “The Machine” of Person of Interest is out there albeit without the “sentience” (hopefully!)

      The significance of the Trump campaign using CA is simply that they had to use private contractors to get what establishment candidates got for free. So Trump really is an outsider, despite all his dodgy New York business connections.

      If electioneering amounts to targetting the floating voter in the key marginals and you can do this with pinpoint psychological accuracy, then it becomes tantamount to rigging – and even worse, if you need to actually rig it, then you will know -exactly- by how much, and thus make it near impossible to get caught.

      According to the standard narrative, in the GE before last, the tories “smashed it in the marginals” – yeah, but how exactly? All the suspicion about this success was about overspending and the “battle bus” – but that may have been a red herring all along. May’s decision to call the last GE may be down to precise intelligence that if she struck now, Labour would be finished forever – but May proved to be the most inept political campaigner in decades and nearly blew it all up.

    35. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Mr Sutherland, pulease. The ‘country’ hasn’t been attacked any more than it was at the Manchester Arena bombing, and I doubt most who are pissed off at Sturgeon’s tuppence-worth aren’t part of a Putin fanclub. The man’s a scumbag, and proud of it.

      It is distrust of an establishment which has lied again and again without real consequence. The cartoon to which this comment section appends even satirizes that. Save your lecture for Chris Cairns, if anyone.

    36. Proud Cybernat says:

      BREAKING from Pravda Quay
      with Union Jackie Kim Ono

      https://i.imgur.com/kCoJNOj.jpg

    37. schrodingers cat says:

      Dan Huil says:

      Britain has said the backstop, effectively putting Northern Ireland under EU economic control separate from London, is completely unacceptable.”
      ——————
      I did wonder about that, they already signed this draft in dec, i’m not sure how they will square this circle.
      If treeza signs anything or indeed writes any thing down on paper, the government will fall.

      I dont know how this is going to pan out, but the sooner that the negotiations end, the better

    38. Cubby says:

      @clootie 9.22

      Nice to read that there are still people who have not suspended their analytical capability. Too many people in Scotland just lie back and let the propaganda wash over them as if it is the truth and nothing but the truth.

      Lies misrepresentation and propaganda is everywhere.

    39. galamcennalath says:

      @Dan Huil

      The EU’s policy is a firm “Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”.

      Everything so far seems to be mutually agreed statements … not sure what the proper diplomatic term should be, but it’s not a legally binding treaty.

      There will be a legally binding treaty signed next year after it has been agreed by all EU27.

      At some point, prior to Oct probably, the UK has to finalise the wording of that treaty. It certainly looks like the “backstop” for Ireland will be as you say. Since other options are highly unlikely it will apply post transition. How TMay gets this past her Brextremists and the DUP is her big problem.

      And her problem is she can’t kick it down the road. She needs to agree to the ‘backstop’ soon, all crash out.

    40. Proud Cybernat says:

      If treeza signs anything or indeed writes any thing down on paper, the government will fall.

      Stalling for time is all they are doing, with a fair bit of deflection thrown in for good measure. If they can get Scotland BREXITED before IR2 then job done.

      UKGov simply cannot show its hand (i.e. what it’ll settle for) until the very last moment. UKGov must keep the SNP in the dark until UK has BREXITED (with Scotland not having voted for Indy). UKGov absolutely KNOW they cannot afford to lose Scotland’s resources.

      It’s what this is all about.

    41. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 19 March, 2018 at 10:36 am:

      “@ William Wallace – I agree. I too give it a miss if I see an endless series of troll posts and replies. But discussing it on here is not the answer.”

      The problem is that it doesn’t cure the problem. The reason being that invariably there are genuine commenters who get fooled and attempt to support the unsupportable.

      Thus the cure is to engage, on a limited basis, until the disruptive element is outed or, more likely as we have just witnessed, they out themselves.

      This latest sock puppet didn’t last long and outed them/itself very quickly and can now be safely scanned past he/she/it can no longer be effective.

      Rock too outed himself long ago but some genuine Indy supporters are still being fooled and engage with him.

      ATM: Rock is determined to force me into engaging in pointless crap. He/she/it cannot upset me and it gets right up his/her/it’s nose. However, if he/she/it has me in the sights others are being left in peace.

      Never fear, though, they are like London busses, miss one and there’ll be a couple more along in a minute. The more successful Wings becomes the more incentive the unionists have to disrupt it. It is as simple as that. First out them, then ignore them.

      There is, of course, a point to all that. It is a good indication of a hidden element when they come out in support of those already outed as a disruptive element.

    42. Dan Huil says:

      @schrodingers cat & galamcennalath

      Agree with you both. Westminster is still trying to run away from Ireland’s reality. But that reality is fast approaching; some people are going to be very disappointed, and very angry.

    43. galamcennalath says:

      Macart says:

      Gibraltar, Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man

      Just thinking logically…

      My understanding is that the EU wants to clamp down on tax havens and the UK as a member has thwarted this. (Also effects the UK’s Carribean havens) I assume that means without the UK as a member they can get on and do their clamping down. If correct that means Brexit will be carried out in a manner which works towards that aim.

      Gibraltar is different in that firstly the folks there are more proEU than anywhere, and secondly Spain benefits from the status quo. On the face of it you’d assume Gibraltar staying in the full single market would suit everyone. Everyone, that is, if you ignore posturing over sovereignty.

      If Spain is sensible {rolls eyes}, Gibraltar could end up closer to Spain in the same way as NI must remain close to the Rep. With time the closeness might increase.

      If I were the Gibraltarians, I would aim for Indy in the EU. But maybe they are too British after all.

    44. heedtracker says:

      Nana says:
      19 March, 2018 at 12:05 pm
      A fine day here in the Highlands Heedy.

      Awe! Now I wish I was in the Highlands.

      Trolls btl WoS seems to be relatively sophisticated now, fake YES voter, mild to strong critical of SNP, any come back from WoS btl commenter and wallop, full on thuggery.

      If there is a 77th, they’ve got their thinking caps on. Its an old technique though, strike breaking, agent provokers, at public events state wants to take out etc.

      Now its moved online, shock:D

    45. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      UKGov simply cannot show its hand (i.e. what it’ll settle for) until the very last moment. UKGov must keep the SNP in the dark …. It’s what this is all about.

      Agree totally.

      The first big question is …. what matters most to WM/Tories/Establishment – Brexit or their UKOK Union?

      IMO their UKOK Union trumps everything else,

      The second big question is … do they think they can win ScotRef?

      Frankly I hope so, because then the chances of stopping it actually happening are lower.

    46. Effijy says:

      Bungling Boris states that Russia has been mass producing and stock piling this nerve agent to kill foreign based tractor eds?

      How many do you imagine there are that you need years of stock piling such a potent nerve agent.

      That makes no sense what so ever, but then again it was Boris,
      our next Prime Minister speaking.

      Wonder if the evidence this time is as sound as the evidence was for Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq???

      I’m not a fan of Putin but his words sit on a level rating with
      Boris, May, and Davidson.

      Anyone have an idea of how much it costs Westminster to bribe their Russian based Spy, buy him a very nice home in Southern
      England, give him a BMW, and money enough to go wining and dining
      on a regular basis?

      Would £1,000,000 be enough?
      I don’t think so.
      Could that “Defense” money have bought the right kind of boots and guns for our soldiers serving in Iraq, could it gone toward and aircraft that would fit on the multi Billion Air Craft carriers that were built?

    47. Macart says:

      @galamcennalath

      RE: Gibraltar

      Been a while, but last time I checked they wanted both. That is they were relying on HMG to ensure they remained British citizens, but somehow were granted exceptional status to remain within the EU/single market.

      Looking less likely by the day (if it were ever likely) 🙄

    48. Dorothy Devine says:

      ‘broken by the weight of his own hypocrisy ” – one wonders when the media will be broken under the weight of their hypocrisy , I must say I’m really looking forward to it!

    49. Ken500 says:

      Any campaigning is illegal in the Purdah period. The last month before an election. Gerrymandering. The VOW etc. The lies and cheating going on were illegal. What increased the NO vote in the IndyRef was the lies being told it would ensure EU membership. When they are now being taken out against their wishes, Harvesting peoples details without their consent or a relevant warrant used to be illegal. It still is illegal in the US. A Fed Offence.

    50. heedtracker says:

      BBC r4 vote tory lunchtime news lady says, “still a lot to be done on the N. Ireland issue.”

      Bit of cultural shock tuning in to the beeb gimp network and not hearing them bashing on and on about their war with Russia. Is the war with Russia over then?

    51. Macart says:

      Some bods will be spitting feathers over this.

      https://archive.is/Z53VK

    52. schrodingers cat says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      UKGov simply cannot show its hand (i.e. what it’ll settle for) until the very last moment. UKGov must keep the SNP in the dark until UK has BREXITED (with Scotland not having voted for Indy).

      It’s what this is all about.
      ——————————

      I think you are right but pressure from the EU to bring forward a written proposal is mounting.
      It is probably to our advantage if treeza walks out sooner rather than later

    53. Bob Mack says:

      Cambridge Analytical works by targeting your interests,likes and hobbies etc. They then suggest friendships and references to sites on social media with people of similar interest and background but who hold different political views from your own. The object is to have you believing that you are out of step with your peers who have the same lifestyle as you. Very effective.

      Check your own facebook and see for yourself the pop ups and friend suggestions.

      Peer influence is extreme .if you doubt that check out the Sandford prison guard/ inmate experiment.

    54. Nana says:

      Lunchtime links

      Ooh Bertie is so assertive
      http://www.sff.co.uk/far-short-acceptable-deal-sff-interim-brexit-agreement/

      Don’t know if anyone posted this

      The Scottish Conservative Party leader is pushing for a union guarantee.
      http://archive.is/a4WM3

    55. geeo says:

      What has become very clear now, is that the WM brexit strategy is more about finding a way to brexit AND save the Union.

      Now that it seems N.I. can stay in the single market post brexit, the obvious question is, why can’t Scotland ?

      Refusing that same accomodation to Sovereign Scots is a very clear and obvious breach of the Act and Treaties of Union. (Again!).
      ………..

      From the Article..

      “On the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, Mr Barnier said the two sides had agreed how the issue would be dealt with during the remaining negotiations.

      He said they had agreed that the EU’s ‘back stop position’ which would see Northern Ireland effectively remain part of the single market if there was no wider agreement, would form part of the legal text of the withdrawal agreement. ‘The backstop will apply unless and until another solution is found,’ he said”.
      …………

      We are getting closer by the day, to ending this Union without the need for a referendum.

      You do’t need a referendum to argue the Terms of the Union are fatally wounded.

      You need lawyers and a courtroom.

    56. wull2 says:

      The EU just wants more time to move their manufacturing and Head Quarters.

    57. heedtracker says:

      BBC r4 Lunchtime tory news now interviewing lots of 9 year olds about Brexit.

      Very nice, anyone but the jocks, in the beeb gimp zone.

    58. Ken500 says:

      The Scottish fishing industry in the NE , with SNP representative, were already negotiating successful with EU representatives to increase quotas and grants by increasing net sizes and improving conditions. They should have been doing that all along but were prevented by Westminster unionists. Instead of throwing dead fish back for year reducing stocks. Landing black fish and illegally breaking quotas. Ruining their own industry. For which some were fined £Millions under UK/EU Law and guidelines. The Buchans (£16Million) For which they blamed the SNP. Once again unionists who do not want to follow UK Law conditions or pay UK taxes. Some are a bunch of lying crooks trying to destroy the economy. Bertie is a liar. A Home Counties Tory was the UK fishing minister.

    59. Ken500 says:

      3rd rate reject Tomkins and his associates are an affront to democracy in Scotland.

    60. geeo says:

      Brilliant stuff..

      Ruth Davidson furious about transition deal meaning the CFP stays in force for the duration of the Transition. Sky saying she “WILL NOT support any brexit deal which does not contain full control over fishing”…

      Oh ma sides…killin me..hehe

    61. Dr Jim says:

      Ruth won’t support the deal then she will because she’s a democrat and majority rules except when it comes to the SNP because in Ruths head even if they are they’re not

    62. orri says:

      How to arrange a fake ballot box stuffing,

      Agree ammongst a group of like minded individuals to give one of you everyone else’s proxy. Then go to the polling station and cast them.

      Same applies with postal votes and officials.

      From the sounds of it Russia uses webcam monitoring open to the public so pick your venue.

      Obviously no guarantee that the footage being shown isn’t a genuine fraud attempt but could be faked.

    63. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      The Scottish Conservative Party leader is pushing for a union guarantee.

      “UK single market” is the new mantra for BritNats. Both Con and Lab using it there.

      They know the previous mantras about ‘better together’ no longer apply in any abstract way, so they have focused on business and trade (therefore jobs and economy)… how Tory.

      We need to go on the attack with this. IMO tying ourselves to a shrinking, diminishing, increasingly impoverished rUK is exactly what we want away from! By focusing on a close relationship with the EU, the world is our oyster. If we were daft enough to put ‘the UK single market’ first we are turning inward and away from the big wide world. Scotland can do better.

      Anyways, there are many other angles on independence to push too.

    64. wee bud says:

      I can see another line in the sand coming from Ruthie!! A word class flip flopper..

      No sympathy for the North East fishermen.. When will people learn that anything away from Londonshire is expendable..

    65. heedtracker says:

      No sympathy for the North East fishermen.. When will people learn that anything away from Londonshire is expendable..

      You know that’s there not that many of them today anyway.

      Also, Bertie their toryboy spokes liar, for the fisher folk, tells them that will get 90% of all UKOK fish, if they vote tory and voted Leave.

      Most UKOK tory attack propaganda focused at the trawler men, is really for us joe sucker public but there is a larger north east fish processing industry, processing Icelandic fish for example and they were all freaking out over Brexit, because the EU is their very rich market.

      Bertie the toryboy liar has that covered though, he tells them the Klondikers will be back offshore teamGB, buying everything and anything the fisher folk catch, so up yours EU.

      When you have ferocious yoon tories like The Graun trying to get the north east fisher to vote Leave, you know our imperial masters have scoped a weak spot in Scottish politics. And no matter how small it is, in piles Severin o The Graun,

      https://archive.is/lMBjT

    66. heedtracker says:

      Kristy Kremlin Doughnuts anyone? extra sprinkles you’ll die for, hopefully very quickly. Have you seen how their nerve agents kill, you literally drown as your vital organs stop working.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16095611.Greg_Moodie__A_Few_Roubles_More/?ref=twtrec

    67. Glamaig says:

      hang on this isn’t what the BBC said on the news at lunchtime with their bright and breezy ‘a deal has been agreed with the EU’

      One EU diplomat involved in negotiations summed up the move and on the wide spread of other agreements reached as saying May had given priority to the transition period: “The Brits have just given in on everything, so big was their drive to get the transition. On citizens’ rights, on many other elements.”

      https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu/eu-agrees-brexit-transition-uk-renews-irish-border-vow-idUKKBN1GV16B

    68. heedtracker says:

      Wow! how’s about this for coffee time UKOK The Graun double speak.

      There is not going to be a N.Irish border. And N. Ireland will Remain in the EU.

      UK has struck a deal/been told what’s happening. Rejoice.

      https://archive.is/lmn0E

      “The UK has struck a deal on the terms of the Brexit transition period after making a series of concessions to Brussels and accepting the “back stop” plan of keeping Northern Ireland under EU law to avoid a hard border with the Republic of Ireland.”

    69. Calum McKay says:

      The fishermen’s leader says he trusts the tory party.

      The fishermen’s leader says he does not trust the EU.

      The fishermen’s leader is shafted by the tory party.

      The fishermen’s leader says he does not trust the EU.

      These events give rise to questions for the fishermen’s leader.

      Does anyone think the fishermen’s leader will learn lessons?

      When will the fishermen’s leader support fishermen and not the tory party?

      When will the fishermen’s leader get his gong for services to the fishing industry?

      Scottish fishermen have been sold down the river yet again by the tories amd their leadership!

      Disgraceful, sadly all but a fool saw this coming!

    70. Capella says:

      @ Heedtracker – we have always been at war with Eurasia.

    71. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Capella @ 11:21,
      Reluctant Nationalist @ 12:07,

      You are of course right about the shit media we have to endure. But you don’t win converts – which is the name of the game, after all – by engaging in the same sneaky business of fake-facting according to pre-programmed political prejudices.

      You win by exposing provable facts and earning a reputation for speaking the truth. That is what Stu’s admirable articles do, and we only serve to undermine all that good work by engaging in wild and baseless speculation which in the event will very likely prove to be far wide of the mark.

      It’s not as though, with Brexit and such, we have nothing better to do with our time and attention. If the BritNat media are now exploiting this appalling business as a diversion for all it’s worth – surprise, surprise! – what fools are we to go along with it so enthusiastically?

      I did address my comments about the cartoon to Chris, FWIW. In general I think he does a great job. This one was just a one-off mis-fire, IMO. If anyone can show us the real-life analogue of the bear-paw stamps in the bushes, there’s a world-class journalism prize eventually heading your way!

      Lastly, and on a more positive note, a big thanks to all of you who, despite everything, have been sticking to the “day job” on here. You know who you are. It’s what makes this site worth returning to.

    72. Macart says:

      It’s a pickle for Ruthie.

      Vote for hard brexit and annoy the Scottish electorate and more importantly the Prime Minister. Or vote with the PM and annoy the Brexiteers in both party and England/Wales.

      I’d feel sympathy, but y’know… reasons and of course Ms Davidson backed herself into that corner.

    73. heedtracker says:

      Capella says:
      19 March, 2018 at 2:42 pm
      @ Heedtracker – we have always been at war with Eurasia.

      We have.

      Other side of all this UKOK war with Vlad the poisoner? Orange Hitler is now heading for choppy Russia water and his “connections” to big Russian money.

      Our noble and honest BBC in particular have got Orange Hitler’s flabby arse covered here but the FBI investigation in to Russian collusion is getting closer and closer to the Trump White house.

      Its almost impossible to impeach a US pres, even with their Constitution but the FBI are heading for extremely serious impeachable stuff.

      It matters to us here in the teamGB toryboy Brexit zone because, look at how the whole of the UK establishment is using war with Russia, as the beeb gimp zone brainwashes us, vote tory, at hot war levels.

      Exact same toryboy freakshow runs America right now.

    74. galamcennalath says:

      ” Theresa May’s DUP allies are adamantly opposed to any deal creating a difference between the north and the rest of the UK.”

      Indeed! So what is TMay going to do about it? Continue to play for time. I assume the object is to get past the Brexit date, out of the EU, and into transition.

      I don’t think the DUP will go along with a legally binding treaty to put the border in the sea. And that needs signed before Brexit or it’s crash out time.

      https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2018/03/19/news/brexit-agreement-reached-on-border-issue-with-backstop-solution-1282317/

    75. geeo says:

      Oh oh…EU saying non to any potential Uk tax haven plans, not if they want a trade deal..!

      http://mollymep.org.uk/2018/03/14/ep-votes-to-block-tax-haven-britain/
      ……

      The overwhelming support by the European Parliament for an amendment requiring the UK to match EU tax standards is the final nail in the coffin of the Tories’ plan for creating tax-haven Britain after Brexit.

      The vast majority of MEPs support the Commission’s demands for a level playing-field on tax matters in any future trade deal and the trade negotiations are likely to include requirements to tackle the underbelly of the British economy: its overseas territories.

      “The European Parliament has sent a clear message to the British Government: Brexit must become an exit from the race to the bottom on tax. Only if Britain complies with EU tax standards can it hope to achieve a comprehensive free trade deal with the EU27.”
      ……….

    76. Robert Peffers says:

      Could this be a certain Rock’s signature tune?

      Just strolling, by Max Bygraves?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnYxddqby50

    77. Capella says:

      @ RJS – If anyone can show us the real-life analogue of the bear-paw stamps in the bushes, there’s a world-class journalism prize eventually heading your way!

      See the Sceptics expose of the BBC manipulation of Putin’s speech. Real life bear paws here:
      http://archive.is/FwuoQ

      BTW I believe it is more to do with sanctions forcing the EU to abandon the Nord 2 pipeline of Russian gas in favour of expensive American LPG imports. It also strengthens the hand of the fracking fraternity. Both of these aims directly impact Scotland.

      BBC manipulation of the facts, which is then propagated throughout the MSM, will be used against Indyref2. So I don’t think it is a distraction but a further example of what our Imperial Masters are up to.
      It always boils down to oil/gas and therefore profits and power IMO. Pity that sometimes some people get hurt.

    78. Dr Jim says:

      When Alex Salmond changed the name of Holyrood to The Scottish Government it sounded like a great thing to do but time has shown that it allows the opposition to attribute powers to the Scottish government they don’t have, which then allows for the opposition to question the Scottish government on those non existent powers giving the impression to voters that the Scottish government aren’t doing anything, making their case that the Scottish government keep moaning about not having sufficient powers and blaming Westminster for it

      Now most of us on WOS know that’s how it works but many voters don’t because they think if you’re called the government then you must have the powers to do the job, not realising that Westminsters whole plan was and is is to resrict the Scottish governments powers in order to achieve that very outcome

      So what to do about this deficit of information?

      Well if I understand correctly the job of the Presiding officer is to intervene and disallow questions of a reserved nature, but he doesn’t! and even complete and utter idiots like Richard Leonard know this and so he continually asks those reserved issue questions on a weekly basis knowing full well that no matter how much he loses the argument with the FM he nevertheless has said what he wanted to say and the later reported episode will be reported in his favour by our compliant and Westminster controlled Media and the poor voter who doesn’t understand the nature of what’s just happened knows nothing but what he/she has heard and considers what they heard must be facts and that indeed the Scottish government must be not prepared to do what they’re asked on behalf of Scotland

      The Presiding officer a Labour MSP and member of Scotland in Union must be held to account over his handling of FMQs
      because I believe the people watching have the impression he’s impartial or supposed to be and he’s clearly not

      A way must be found to impress upon Scotland that our Government don’t have the powers folk think they do and I bloody well don’t know how to do that

    79. heedtracker says:

      So, Brexit does not mean Brexit.

      Amazing how things change on planet toryboy these days.

      Lets go back in to the great beeb gimp zone, from the ancient tory times too, of 2016

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36782922

      Is the new prime minister’s slogan as firm and unambiguous as it first seems?

      “Brexit means Brexit”. “We are all Brexiters now.”

      Our new prime minister’s statements, and those of her supporters, are perhaps the opposite of a Zen koan.

      Those philosophical puzzles – like “the sound of one hand clapping” – are apparently meaningless, but long meditation on their internal contradiction is supposed to allow enlightenment to blossom.

      Early beeb gimp spin and Tbf, Mardell is one the beeb’s finest toryboy arselickers.

    80. galamcennalath says:

      A more realistic appraisal for where Brexit is now at … from Australia …

      https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/ireland-question-unanswered-in-new-brexit-transition-deal-20180320-p4z55w.html

    81. heedtracker says:

      Don’t think my Slovene girlfriend’s in the loop this afternoon. Not a good day for unionist carpet baggers in their Scotland region right enough.

      Adam Tomkins MSP
      ?
      Verified account

      @ProfTomkins
      6h6 hours ago
      More
      It’s essential that Brexit safeguards and does not undermine the Union of the UK’s four nations. The @ScotTories will always fight for this, including this week in Holyrood

    82. Proud Cybernat says:

      LIVE from Pravda Quay
      with Union Jackie Kim Ono:

      https://i.imgur.com/JUGLsnn.jpg

    83. heedtracker says:

      The @ScotTories will always fight for this, including this week in Holyrood

      So sayeth BetterTogether Slovenia branch manageress!

      Has anyone heard anything for the DUP zoomers this lovely early spring Glasgow afternoon? Cheap at only a billion tory squid too.

      My Slovene girlfriend gets very pouty, when you er, point out how much of a bribe the DUP suckers took from Strong and Stable Teresa.

      At least they’re Loyal! pouts Prof Smirky.

      Vote toryboy.

    84. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Capella @ 15:14,

      That link is just a silly sideshow, it doesn’t get a whit closer to actually proving who did this truly devilish deed, either way. Just useless mutual finger-pointing over trivialities. “Nyaa-nyaa-nyaa.”

      As to your (implied?) notion that this entire episode is somehow a deep UK-controlled plot whose ultimate aim was to alter the EU’s sources of gas, help-ma-boab!

      If you think this airport-novel line of “reasoning” is going to be a winner over the needed-for 10% still currently sticking with the Union, good luck with that. But it’s my future too. So you can forget my shoulder to cry on when IR2 goes horribly wrong as a consequence.

      If it even gets off the ground in the first place for all the ordinary folk rolling their eyes and laughing themselves senseless.

    85. Breeks says:


      geeo says:
      19 March, 2018 at 1:26 pm

      We are getting closer by the day, to ending this Union without the need for a referendum.

      You do’t need a referendum to argue the Terms of the Union are fatally wounded.

      You need lawyers and a courtroom.

      Aye, just a pity it’s taken Scotland 300+ years to figure it out.

    86. Referendum1707 says:

      Dr Jim 3.15

      “A way must be found to impress upon Scotland that our Government don’t have the powers folk think they do and I bloody well don’t know how to do that”.

      Not so long ago someone on here suggested that the SNP/SG should send out to EVERY home in Scotland a leaflet, in plain envelopes with no logos or anything on them, outlining as simply and clearly as possible exactly what powers the SG does and does not have, at least with regard to major issues.

      I could be wrong but I’m quite strongly inclined to think that they have the funds and the resources to do that.

      Needless to say though, nothing came of it.

    87. Capella says:

      @ RJS – ignoring the abusive tone of your riposte – I didn’t say that article solved the question of who poisoned the Skripals. What it highlights is the propaganda methods of our media, particularly the BBC.

      This blog specialises in analysing the media and exposing their underhand methods of manipulation. That’s why I come here.

      But I suspect you didn’t bother reading the article as you have already decided it isn’t relevant. Fair enough.

    88. Bob Mack says:

      Silly conspiracy theories like.

      Britain selling out the poles to the Russians after they died for us in Ww2.

      Blair and Iraq WMD.

      Like organising government and Loyalist murder gangs to kill civilians in N Ireland since the days of the Black and Tans.

      Many many more if you want them.

      What are we like eh? .

    89. heedtracker says:

      Like organising government and Loyalist murder gangs to kill civilians in N Ireland since the days of the Black and Tans.

      Many many more if you want them.

      The Irish will tell you that it was the Black and Tan violence, especially in the south west of Ireland, that finally turned the tide in Irish support for the Republic of Ireland.

      Its also shored up massive IRA support in the US, still there today too.

    90. heedtracker says:

      https://www.snp.org/the_tories_have_let_down_rural_scotland

      Following last year’s General Election, Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson promised to “champion the Scottish national interest” at Westminster. But the reality has been very different.

      Scottish Secretary David Mundell and Davidson have failed to deliver on promise after promise to Scotland. In Westminster, as in Holyrood, the Tories have shown that they will hold the party line whatever the cost to Scotland.”

      Fluffie and the Colonel.

      What a great title for a beeb gimp cop show. One’s got suicidal tendencies and the other’s too old for this shit.

    91. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Capella @ 15:52,

      I did read the article. Hence my reply.

      And sorry, but it’s you who keeps missing the point. Diversionary windmill-tilting wins no converts. That’s the point.

      You can only win by showing up media distortions to people who can ultimately judge them against their own experience or that of people close to them whom they trust. Sadly, even sometimes showing them a rock-solid indisputable truth doesn’t work. Stuff about conspiracies of who-buys-gas-from-whom might as well be fairy tales as far as they are concerned.

      Taking on the media over an issue where the basic facts might actually turn out for once to be on their side (disappointing as that may be) wins no cigars either.

      You have to see the world of the potential convert to win them over, not your own cosy self-certain bubble. Global class war is not their fight and it’s not our indy fight either.

      But here I am, despite the best of intentions, also being suckered into this unproductive diversionary thing… =sigh=

    92. Proud Cybernat says:

      The DUP aren’t politically stupid. They must be able to see where this BREXIT nonsense is going just like the rest of us can. So, just WHAT is it that is keeping them on-song in the interim?

      The only thing I can see why they are not kicking up a stink is that they have been reassured by Mayhem that she is just stringing the EU along (to keep SNP in the dark), and then, at the very last moment, crash out. Given the recent EU vote on UK-Tax havens and that UK must comply as part of any BREXIT deal, the UK crashing out at last minute is the only thing that makes sense. The DUP must have been told this is the plan in order to keep them ‘on-message’.

    93. Thepnr says:

      @paul

      Thanks for the link to the Withdrawl Agreement, I like that fact that as described in many reports the pdf is highlighted in Green, Yellow and for those items fully agreed or politically agreedbut not yet legally agreed and those not agreed in white.

      Will read through it later, especially the Yellow and White 🙂

    94. heedtracker says:

      They do say fathers of daughters need deep pockets and a good sense of humour.

      Jeff Dugdale
      ?

      @Jefforbited
      18h18 hours ago
      More Jeff Dugdale Retweeted The Scotsman
      Jeff Dugdale is calling for the BBC to be banned in Scotland.Jeff Dugdale added,
      The Scotsman
      Verified account

      @TheScotsman
      Ruth Davidson has called for Russia Today (RT) to be banned in the UK
      https://trib.al/dCiVoeE
      72 replies 580 retweets 1,213 likes
      Reply 72

    95. jfngw says:

      @ Proud cybernat

      Either that or they think they can con the EU by agreeing no border in Ireland then impose no border in the Irish sea after the deal is done. Try to have free access to EU through Ireland, and see if the EU then imposes a border to stop them. It fits their narrative of ‘it’s the EU that’s the problem’. Maybe I’m just too cynical of course.

    96. Liz g says:

      Meg Merrilee’s @ 11.37am
      I didn’t for one minute think you had Meg.
      And I hope you don’t mind that I used your comment to bounce one of my own point’s from.

    97. heedtracker says:

      More comic relief.

      Why are tourists flocking to Scotland?
      16 March 2018

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43418122

      Its a good question, coming from a bunch of tory gimps that make stacks of cash explaining over and over just how shite Scotland is.

      Yoon culture in its Scotland region huh.

    98. wull2 says:

      The EU is falling for WM trap, string it along then crash out with nothing when it is to late.

    99. schrodingers cat says:

      so treeza has finally put pen to paper

      already the natives are revolting, tories crying about fishermen being sold out.

      independence and in efta/eea would mean being out of the cfp.

      win win.

      I cant see any deal done will be ratified by westminster, although the scottish tories will toe the line

    100. Luigi says:

      Glamaig says:

      19 March, 2018 at 2:36 pm

      hang on this isn’t what the BBC said on the news at lunchtime with their bright and breezy ‘a deal has been agreed with the EU’

      One EU diplomat involved in negotiations summed up the move and on the wide spread of other agreements reached as saying May had given priority to the transition period: “The Brits have just given in on everything, so big was their drive to get the transition. On citizens’ rights, on many other elements.”

      https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu/eu-agrees-brexit-transition-uk-renews-irish-border-vow-idUKKBN1GV16B

      As I’ve said before, the UK will capitulate completely. We will remain in the single market and the customs union. In order to save face, it won’t be called that, of course. It will be called something new so that the BBC can claim a great victory for Blighty. You read it here first. 🙂

      By the way, has Ruth and Bertie resigned yet?

    101. Robert Peffers says:

      @Effijy says: 19 March, 2018 at 12:50 pm:

      “Bungling Boris states that Russia has been mass producing and stock piling this nerve agent to kill foreign based tractor eds?
      How many do you imagine there are that you need years of stock piling such a potent nerve agent.”

      You are correct, Effigy, but don’t have the real story. I spent considerable time explaining it to Mr Southerland who, insultingly, claimed that Wingers who called out Bungling Boris were, “Putin Fans”. However, as I went to post it it vanished into thin air. So here is a potted version.

      The NATZis in WWII were being pushed back into Germany by the Allies and had no access to the rare raw materials that were used then to produce nerve agents. They were researching ways to produce it with easy to obtain existing chemicals. As WWII ended the USA & the USSR, (not Russia Per Se), were racing each other for German War Weapons like the V2 Rocket and the German Atom Bomb research. They each got not only the scientific papers but captured and set to work German Scientists like Von Braun.

      The nerve agent documentation was rather overlooked for some years but then the USSR, in the 1970/80s rediscovered the papers and began to develop a class of nerve agent they named, “Novichok”. The first thing to note is that, “Novichok”, is itself not a specific nerve agent. It is a generic term for a class of nerve agents that are made from easy to obtain substances that are not, in themselves, dangerous and not even on restricted lists.

      Furthermore, they do not require complex chemical plants to manufacture and they are binary. That is they are two parts and only become activated, (dangerous and deadly), when brought together.

      Next important information is that the, “Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons”, (OPCW), oversaw the destruction of the USSR, “Novichok”, stocks and manufacturing plants and that included at the time Russia. However, OPCW has not, to date overseen the total destruction of the USA or UK stockpiles of Nerve Agents.

      So Russia has no known stockpile of that class of nerve agent but the USA & UK certainly do. So here’s the true story that Bungling Boris jumped into with both feet. So here are a few points:-

      No one has yet identified the particular nerve agent and OPCW representatives were due to arrive in the UK today to do just that.

      Russia had all stocks of the agents they held destroyed by OPCW and there is no record of any further manufacture.

      This cannot be said of either the USA or UK and factually all major powers do hold small quantities of these agents in order to research antidotes for particular Nerve Agents.

      So as the particular nerve agent is not yet identified how can Bungling Boris know which it was in order to claim Russia made it? In any case Russia, as such, were not the developers in the 1970/80s, that was the USSR, and their stocks and manufacturing plants were destroyed.

      So perhaps Mr Southerland would care to explain himself accusing Wingers of being biased towards Russia and Putin when all they were doing was saying, “Hang-on there’s no actual evidence that Russia was/is involved and no-one yet knows what the particular nerve agent was.

      I’ve no idea how long it will take OPCW to identify it but my guess is that they will simply run a spectrum analysis and compare the resultant spectrum obtained against known spectrums obtained from known nerve agents. That shouldn’t take very long but, being a thoroughly professional body, I expect they will run the analysis several times.

    102. schrodingers cat says:

      So perhaps Mr Southerland would care to explain himself accusing Wingers of being biased towards Russia and Putin

      ————

      for the record i would just like to say that I look forward to welcoming our new russian overlords

      signed, tovarisch schrodingers catski

    103. Ken500 says:

      @ you don’t have to get 10%. To get over the line. It’s 3% +. With or without the migrants, will do it.

      On the same turnout.

    104. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dr Jim
      A way must be found to impress upon Scotland that our Government don’t have the powers folk think they do and I bloody well don’t know how to do that“.

      Indeed. First recognise the problem, then solve it. Don’t ask me how!

    105. Ken500 says:

      @ Indy Ref2

    106. Ken500 says:

      So the EU got everything it wanted and more money. A complete capitulation. The Tories are ignorant, incompetents. Useless hypocritical psycho bastards. Paying more for less. Sanctioning and starving folk to death. Just as expected. How long before they are gone?

    107. yesindyref2 says:

      Funny that’s come up, it’s my personal theme of the day, and it’s getting worse by the minute.

      Polarisation

      Which wins no converts. There’s the need to look at the other side, to play the Devil’s Advocate, to put ourselves in the shoes of the other side and even argue their point of view for them. So as to better understand it.

      It’s making me extremely ratty so I’ll maybe not post any more today.

    108. silverbuick says:

      Dr.Jim, why can’t the F.M. refuse to take questions on matters reserved to Westminster?

    109. PacMan says:

      Jock McDonnell @ 18 March, 2018 at 8:23 pm

      @Pacman
      Think that’s right, it’s about winning undecided voters at this point.

      It’s about credibility as well.

      It was mentioned numerous times throughout the referendum that an independent Scotland would have a close relationship with the rUK and able to negotiate beneficial outcomes in the tough negotiations that would inevitably happen in the event if independence had happened.

      That simply isn’t going to be believed if Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish government or the SNP Westminster contingent obstructs, denies or makes accusations against Westminster government for no valid reason.

      NS gave support for the Westminster based on the information given to her at the time by them. This isn’t the same as given full hearted support and can be revoked should new information comes to light that contradicts or does not support Westminsters position.

      More importantly, that needs to be seen by the public that the political part of the independence campaign are doing what they are claiming as well as showing that they can act like a government in waiting until they are given that power by the people of Scotland in the event they decide on independence.

    110. Ken500 says:

      The DUP can still take down May (and the Tories?). To try and get what they want. Or bring themselves down. Self destruct the lot of them. They are useless enough.

    111. Ken500 says:

      The FM has to answers questions. The Scottish Gov can’t do much about reserved matters because people voted NO. They can go around the houses but sometimes it’s not worth it. It does bring to the fore the increased powers Scotland’s needs for better governance. An increased mandate needed.

    112. Dan Huil says:

      From BreakingNews.ie:

      “Update 5.39pm: Sinn Féin MEP Martina Anderson said the British Government should come up with credible proposals to ensure the rights of people in the North are protected.

      That’s after no agreement was reached on the right operational approach to avoid a hard border in the EU’s draft agreement.

      A “backstop” solution envisaging Northern Ireland effectively remaining within the EU customs union if no other solution is found has been assented to in principle.

      Anderson said: “It is clear from today’s meeting between David Davis and Michel Barnier that the British government have now accepted the agreements it has already entered into both in December and just weeks ago when the draft withdrawal agreement was published.

      “Despite denials from Theresa May there is now confirmation that the British government is accepting the agreements made, including the backstop option which would see the north remaining in the customs union and significant elements of the single market.”

      She added: “The Taoiseach must now ensure that the rights of people in the North are protected and that the outstanding issues are addressed in a way that realises his pledge that citizens in the north will never again be left behind by an Irish government.”

    113. Dan Huil says:

      From BreakingNews.ie

      Update 5.58pm: A spokesman for Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said the ‘backstop’ solution to the border issue is “legally firm”.

      That solution envisages Northern Ireland effectively remaining within the EU customs union if no other solution is found and has been assented to in principle.

      “The backstop is as legally firm as the government said it would be in December,” the spokesman said in comments reported by Reuters.

      “The UK has today publicly accepted the need for such a backstop to be in the text of the (EU) withdrawal agreement.”

      “The backstop applies unless and until something better is agreed.”

    114. jfngw says:

      I see freelance hack thinks the loss of the 12,000 fishermen’s jobs is a price worth paying. Funnily I have the same feeling about the MSM journalistic industry in Scotland, but for different reasons.

    115. Cactus says:

      Quite SO jfngw ~

      “I see freelance hack thinks the loss of the 12,000 fishermen’s jobs is a price worth paying.”

      Aye what is the future for Scottish fisherpeoples now, who were once PNV’s.

      Maybe they will consider voting Yes upon iScotref, now recognising that their new found distrust of the Tories, may also now influence…

      + their parents.
      + their children, of eligible voting age.
      + their colleagues.
      + their communities.
      + their friends…

      …to vote Yes upon iScotref this time.

      That would be many thousands of new Yes fisherpeople.

      (‘PNV’s’ = previous no voters)

    116. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      19 March, 2018 at 12:38 pm,

      “ATM: Rock is determined to force me into engaging in pointless crap. He/she/it cannot upset me and it gets right up his/her/it’s nose. However, if he/she/it has me in the sights others are being left in peace.”

      Let us see who is provoking who:

      Robert Peffers says:
      19 March, 2018 at 12:15 am

      “Oooh! Rock Kinters (cough!), has lost it entirely. Reverted to type and it sure as hell is way below the previous lowest of the low. In fact it may by time to call upon Police Scotland for that is illegal abuse on several different levels.”

      The aggressive verbal bully, liar, coward and almost certainly a nasty person in real life, cannot counter a single point I have made so resorts to associating me with another poster who has nothing to do with me.

      Robert Peffers says:
      25 February, 2018 at 8:20 pm (The tunes of glory)

      ““Hope you’re doing ok Robert”

      Well not really, it’s going to take a very long time to get over this particular sad setback.”

      Robert Peffers says:
      25 February, 2018 at 9:23 pm (The tunes of glory)

      “Now please Wingers, nobody tell Rock about this wee web link when he clocks on tonight.

      It might upset him and we cannot have that now – can we?

      Well can we?”

      What sort of recently bereaved father would make posts like this, a couple of days after a sad bereavement?

      Judging by your comments, you are back in even more aggressive form than before your sad bereavement.

    117. Rock says:

      Can I call the police for Liz g claiming I have “Narcissistic Personality Disorder”?

      Liz g (26th February – “The tunes of glory”):

      “If I’m right and Rock does have Narcissistic Personality Disorder,he won’t even see or accept how off colour goading a recently bereaved father is.”

      I am sure there will be hundreds of posters who would want to report Robert Peffers to the police:

      A tiny fraction of his verbally aggressive posts:

      Robert Peffers says:
      12 March, 2018 at 2:10 pm (A historic breakthrough):

      “Absolute and utter pish! Squirrel.”

      Robert Peffers says:
      12 March, 2018 at 11:44 pm (A historic breakthrough):

      “Oh! Go and do some research before mouthing off, Valerie.”

      Robert Peffers says:
      13 March, 2018 at 3:05 pm (A historic breakthrough):

      “Sheesh! Where do these uninformed numpties come from?”

      I can quote hundreds more of his verbally aggressive posts.

      And his racist and homophobic ones.

    118. Clootie says:

      …quick visit but I see Rock is still ranting…will come back after his shift ends.

    119. geeo says:

      Trying to sneak into the back end of a topic after it is done with, and posting vitriolic nonsense is a well trodden path by those who troll this site (Rock here, for example).

      He (they) do it so as to try catch people who read the last bit of the topic previous, before moving on to the next.

      Get a bit of personal abuse in, unanswered, and try create an impression of certain posters, like the educational and informative, Robert Peffers.

      Do not bother responding, trollboy, this post is so people casually reading the site, know exactly what you are.

    120. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland, 2.53pm

      Yeah, fair enough. Decent point.

    121. Les Wilson says:

      This Cambridge Analytical issue, I feel sure the Westminster Government would have known all about them and what they do.
      The BBC have been quiet about this in what was breaking news, only making some comment this morning to my knowledge. Why the delay when it a very big breaking story.

      When you think of what this company does and how it does it, you have to think that democracy anywhere can now be subverted, they have now been using these practices for many years.

      So my question would be, have the UK government had their assistance in Scottish voting? There are anomalies in both Indy1 and the Tories coming from nearly nowhere to win 13 MP seats in the last election.
      So it is a worthy question, someone in authority should be asking it.

    122. Foonurt says:

      Wan Bearspaw [Montana, 1877]ah huv ah bit thocht aboot, iz whaur Bearcoat Miles coat thoan Nimiipuu.

      Foartae miles shoart, ah yoan meedicin-line in freedom fae thoan US Army butchurrs. Efturr ah tweve-hunnurr mile battling mairch, fae thurr prucht hamelinn.

      Young Joseph, threw doon his rifle, ett dawn, tae stave aff massacre ah weans, wimmin in warriors stull staunin.

    123. Smallaxe says:

      Aye Foonurt, th’ battle o’ th’ muckle nook ‘n’ we ur trying tae rammy oor wey oot o’ a muckle nook, ‘n’ we wull!

    124. Rock says:

      geeo says:
      20 March, 2018 at 1:14 am

      “Trying to sneak into the back end of a topic after it is done with”

      That is those who post at 1:14 am do.

    125. Cubby says:

      There is a sneaky British Nationalist who infects this site. Please ignore as the aim is just to cause trouble.

    126. Craig Fraser says:

      When stuff such as this happens or other calamity appears in the MSM etc. I now go – what just happened, why and crucially leave a while before I post or comment. People need time to gather their thoughts and try and consider what they post.

    127. christine21 says:

      Read that one witness described the spy as looking upwards and gesticulating strangely, so got this idea they were poisoned by a drone, a trendy assassination way these days.

      Out of curiosity googled salisbury and drone and bingo: according to the Daily T-graph there is a “secretive” drone company in salisbury headed by an ex-cop no less which has just won a huge gov. contract (re prisons) !!!!!

      But could be just a coincidence.

    128. Foonurt says:

      Aye, Smallaxe. Scoattish Independence tae ah dee.

      Thurr wiz ah rummull, fae yoan Rock fauwt-line. Ae must bae due, ah brek acroass eez soalid geography.

    129. Smallaxe says:

      Och aye Foonert, me tae, till th’ death, mah mukker. That rock needs broke ‘n’ thare ur a few ither heids juist waiting fur th’ identical treatment.



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