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Wings Over Scotland

The training of memory

Posted on May 16, 2017 by

The Labour general election manifesto is officially launched today, as if it mattered. It will reportedly say that the party will block a second independence referendum if it’s in power at Westminster, which of course it won’t be.

And while Labour’s position on anything – particularly anything involving Scotland – is a complete irrelevance, it’s still quite fun to listen to them tying themselves in knots.

So with no further ado, ladies and gentlemen, we bring you Duncan Hothersall.

(Good Morning Scotland, BBC Radio Scotland, 16 May 2017)

So that’s all nice and clear. When the Labour leader said just a matter of weeks ago:

“I was asked if, in Westminster, we would block the holding of a referendum. I said no. If the Scottish Parliament decided they wanted to have a referendum, then it would be wrong for Westminster to block it.”

…by way of clarifying his previous comments that:

“If a referendum is held then it is absolutely fine, it should be held. I don’t think it’s the job of Westminster or Labour to prevent people holding referenda.”

…what he actually meant by that was:

“If we’re in power at Westminster we’ll definitely block a second referendum”.

Yes, Duncan’s right. That IS clear and consistent. We feel a bit silly now.


(We try to tightly ration “1984” references. But since everyone’s talking about Orwell this week, we’re going to indulge ourselves this once.)

“To make sure that all written records agree with the orthodoxy of the moment is merely a mechanical act. But it is also necessary to REMEMBER that events happened in the desired manner. And if it is necessary to rearrange one’s memories or to tamper with written records, then it is necessary to FORGET that one has done so.

The trick of doing this can be learned like any other mental technique. It is learned by the majority of Party members, and certainly by all who are intelligent as well as orthodox.

In Oldspeak it is called, quite frankly, ‘reality control’.”

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  1. 16 05 17 10:56

    The training of memory | speymouth

113 to “The training of memory”

  1. Desimond says:

    Cognitive Innocence
    or just plain old Idiocy

    Loving the Tories agree with SNP on prescription charges and labour agree with SNP on Tuition Fees.

    They will catch up on Independence one day.

  2. Proud Cybernat says:

    If he’s been taking lessons from Big Sister Ruthie, he’s no’ been listening.

  3. Walking On Sunshine says:

    So in March they would not block a second referendum.

    Now their manifesto is saying they would block it.

    And Mr Hothersall is saying that is all very clear.

    Well it is Labour after all.

    Totally and utterly useless.

  4. meg merrilees says:

    Brilliant exposé, Rev.

    However, the sad thing is that a large chunk of the public don’t really follow politics as much as we do and they easily forget what one party or another says – because the false truth is constantly rammed down their throats.

    It needs articles like this to expose these liars for what they are and show people that they can’t be trusted.

  5. donald anderson says:

    So wot is Cheezy Dugtails policy on free prescriptions and student grants this week?

  6. X_Sticks says:

    Did I hear Simon Pia on GMS say he would be voting Labour? His conversion to SNP seems to have been short lived.

  7. Big Jock says:

    Why is this guy even of any relevance. Why is he getting so much air time. He is a nobody. Can he not just retire gracefully after getting his arse handed to him on a plate by the electorate.

  8. Mike says:

    Duncan is the type of political drone who will openly support Labour no matter what road it takes no matter what principle it adopts or drops no matter what policy program it creates or ends.
    He is in it for himself. He simply asks what can labour do for him and his career.
    Far too many Duncans in Labour Scotland that’s their problem.
    They cant challenge the God awful Tories because they are trapped in a spiral of inconsistency and unprincipled self serving. They simply cant be trusted. At least you can trust the Tories to be Tories you cant trust Labour to be anything.
    They didn’t learn the harsh lesson dealt out to the Lib Dems when they sacrificed every principle and ideal for power share with both Labour and the Tories.
    Far too many morons with nothing but a gift for the gab being allowed into politics.

  9. Breastplate says:

    Good grief, we’re so lucky that so many politicians want to save Scotland from us Scots, I had no idea that politics had an abundance of such thoughtful people.

  10. Robert Graham says:

    The bbc cant help themselves can they , it’s like watching a wee guy with a wee hammer,chipping away at a rock chip ,chip ,day after day night after night at a rock but there he goes chip chip he dosnt give up the he gets all his wee pals to join in chip chip ,it would do yer bloody nut in .

  11. Dr Jim says:

    To deny Scotlands parliament the right to hold a referendum in the name of the Scottish people as represented by its political choices flies in the face of the United Nations charter and becomes a position of dictatorship by the Labour party and something one would expect from the old USSR
    Is Jeremy Corbyn a Communist now?

    Even the Tories, who would like to hold the same position have not gone this far

    Well Labour folk, are you all Communists now

  12. Cuilean says:

    Yoons: Shut up Scotland! Shut up Scotland! Shut up Scotland! Shut up Scotland! etc.

  13. Neil Mackenzie says:

    I don’t understand how they think they can possibly get away with such a direct contradiction of the stated purpose from the United Nations Charter declaration of “respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples” (Article 1, Paragraph 2).

    It’s a seriously stone cold international outrage.

  14. Breastplate says:

    Why do these people find it to be imperative that we don’t hear the Voice of the People through a referendum.
    Is it because they won’t like what they have to say?

  15. Macart says:

    Wait. Didn’t he just say in his own…?

    Never mind.

    Still, just for clarity sake. Today Labour is opposed to independence and opposed to the Scottish electorate’s inalienable right to choose.

    They were opposed in the good times (by their lights) and of course now, whilst the population is in the middle of an economic and constitutional shit storm they helped create.

    Also worth pointing out that Mr Corbyn isn’t short on the hypocrisy front concerning referendums either.

  16. Tinto Chiel says:

    In Duncan’s mouth, somehow words come to have no meaning.

    And you know he’s in trouble when he wheels out the warm, fuzzy, meaningless expression “Labour Values”.

    To be fair, Jezza was half right when he said Scottish independence would be economically catastrophic……for England, though. It’s why unionists love us so.


    Catchy motto, Rev.

  17. heedtracker says:

    Another SLabour mess. Scotland’s still their region and Jezza’s merely using his Scottish region for votes in England. Fair enough. Its what we voted No for.

    Tory’s slime over us with, ref2 is not blocked, oh no, its just not now, it will be held, when we decide, 2050 perhaps, if you’re a good little region, of the UK.

  18. arthur thomson says:

    Corbyn is the hypocritical leader of a hypocritical party. He is a fraud and there is nothing he or his Party says that can be believed.

    Just like his Tory ‘rivals’.

    It is time that people in Scotland realised that the Tory/Labour, bad guy/good guy act is just that – an act. They undermine democracy at every turn and represent only their own interests.

    I wonder if Hothersall is direct employee of the British State?

  19. Brian Powell says:

    Since the majority of people in Scotland were not against Independence but a chunk who voted No did so because they were not convinced in 2014 it was financially workable, I’m not sure who Scottish Labour are trying to convince and capture.

    The Tories now have the hard No voters.

  20. Bob Mack says:

    “Whenever you arrive at a contradiction, check your premises,.You will find one of them is wrong” Ayn Rand.

    I suggest Duncan do the above.

  21. Jim Mitchell says:

    As the late Eric Morecambe would have said, ‘This boy is a fool’.

  22. Marcia says:


    He is converted to Yes from No but not the SNP.

  23. Dan Huil says:

    Labour in Scotland continues to do the tories’ dirty work.

  24. Breeks says:

    You cannot block a referendum without forfeiting the right to claim you are a democracy.

    Even Theresa “Now is not the time” May can work that one out.

    Labour just don’t understand democracy at all do they? Even now, when the electorate is giving Labour a clear and explicit refresher course in what democracy means.

    You’re beyond boring Hothersall.

  25. Robbo says:

    Brian Powell says:
    16 May, 2017 at 10:21 am
    Since the majority of people in Scotland were not against Independence but a chunk who voted No did so because they were not convinced in 2014 it was financially workable, I’m not sure who Scottish Labour are trying to convince and capture.

    The Tories now have the hard No voters.

    My opinions on that are same now as 2014 .I reckon at least 50% of the 2 million+ that voted no were status quo. That’s nearly half of no vote .Add the few hundred thousand that didn’t vote we were royally dun, considering we only need a 400,000 swing . We need to convince the status quo that Scotland CAN look after there own affairs.

  26. Capella says:

    Chucks Keir Hardie into the dustbin of history, along with the UN charter on Human Rights. Well done Duncan.

  27. vlad (not that one ) says:

    60 years ago a Communist Block dissident said: “The most difficult thing for a Communist is to predict the past”.

  28. TheStrach says:

    As always, Labour is part of the problem not the solution.

  29. manandboy says:

    Right there, the big independence lie – it will be “an economic disaster for Scotland”, while the truth is it will be an economic disaster for the British Establishment when it is deprived of its Golden Goose – the unending flow of Scottish oil.

  30. Cath says:

    “They will catch up on Independence one day.”

    Oh aye. On day one of independence, Labour will be claiming it was all down to them really – they pushed the SNP for it and delivered it.

  31. HandandShrimp says:

    Churchill once said of the US joining the war that America always chooses the correct course, it just has to try all the other options first.

    Labour it would seem has got irrevocably stuck at “all the other options” stage. However, I am guessing that this inclusion is at the behest of Kezia and SLab. SLab long ceased to be fit for purpose and is just a zombie party going through the motions of pretending some sort of relevance.

  32. Effijy says:

    Labour buried the McCrone report as they felt
    That Scots had no right to access information
    That would greatly change their economy, and
    Their politics, and their future.

    Labour are telling Scots to vote for them blindly
    And ask no questions of what they do, as it is all
    To do with Westminster and England.

    Can someone ask the Labour Party how Scotland
    Benefited from having 6,000 square miles of our
    Maritime waters stolen to gift England?

    Maybe Lord Darling will join Lord Faulkner and
    Lord McConnell, and Lord Watson in explaining
    To the 25% of Scots Kids who live below the poverty
    Line why we subsidise Scottish Lords who only ever
    Put themselves and Labour before the people?

  33. Thepnr says:

    I’d bet that this “No to an Independence Referendum” and Labour will oppose it was made part of the Labour party manifesto at the insistence of the Scottish branch. People like Dugdale, Hothersall and McTernan.

    It just shows how stupid they are as no doubt there goes another 2% of the support they have now, is it 14% or something more dire? That’s some comedown from 40% or so in a few short years.

    More importantly now though I think is that we need to stop the drift from Labour to the Toxic Tory scum. We want that 2% to come over to our side. Ruth the mooth is doing a fine job with the recruiting of bigots though that has probably now ran out of steam as the number of true bigots is limited and she likely has them all onboard the Tory Titanic already.

    So let’s not be shy, grab that Labour voter you know and welcome them into the light and give them a seat in the lifeboat next to you.

    All they are seeking is knowledge, you have it so share it.

  34. Dr Jim says:

    The latest Lib Dem leaflet has dropped through my door to reveal they’re at it as well
    Not only are they rewriting history they’re rewriting the present by presenting a large photograph of Alex Salmond and the suggestion implied the Leader of the SNP

    If Nicola Sturgeon were not an honest politician she could follow the opposition parties outright lying stupidities and declare free Haribos for life for everyone voting SNP

    I’d vote for that

    The desperation of Yoonworld has become freakishly and frantically possessed by the forces of Mentalness
    So afraid are they of “losing” Scotland and all the assets we have they have resorted to just running around and just screaming !!NO!! as loudly as they can

    This is a General Election to elect MPs to the House of Commons but the Yoonionist parties can’t seem to stop themselves maniacally squealing about Scotlands constitution so much so that they’ve forgotten to put actual policies on their literature except for one

    Stop the SNP or you’re all going to die

  35. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The reason the SNP won 56 of the 59 Scottish seats at the last General election was the Independence Referendum.

    That is a fact.

    When Harrison and the diddies shouted “You just want another referendum yah boo” we should have said “Correct!” and got on with it.

    Just got the LibDem leaflet in today by post. Published in London.

  36. Scott says:

    Sorry O/T.
    Below is part of a reply I got from BBC regarding my complaint.As it is the Editors who take the decisions on what is news who is the Editor of BBC Scotland and how do we complain to him.

    We know that not everyone will agree with our choices on which stories to cover, and the prominence that we give to them. These decisions are made by our news editors, taking into consideration the editorial merit of the stories at hand, and we accept that not everyone will think that we are correct on each occasion.
    There are several factors that we take into consideration when deciding how to put together our news bulletins. These decisions are always judgement calls rather than an exact science, but we appreciate the feedback that our audience give us when they feel a story has been overlooked or marginalised.
    The usual crap reply from BBC.

  37. TD says:

    The only hope for SLAB is to declare independence from the UK Labour party and support independence for Scotland. There are some in SLAB who realise this – I think they are biding their time. They might make a move when Labour get wiped out at the general election, but I suspect they will wait until Kezia and Jeremy have dug the hole a bit deeper. I don’t see either of them resigning, even when faced with the collapse of their vote.

    Try to see it from Labour’s perspective. They know that things are pretty dire for them. The question they must be asking themselves is “How will the Scottish independence debate end? Will the Yes movement eventually just fade away, or is the momentum towards independence so great that it is just a matter of when, not if?” If I were a die hard Labour member, I think I would be coming to realise that the eventual outcome is going to be that Scotland goes independent. So if I wanted to be part of a viable political force after independence, I would need to position myself and my party on the right side of history. Imagine if Labour stick to their unionist position, but independence happens anyway. Would they be politically credible? No, they would be like the Tories who opposed devolution – they were in the political wilderness in Scotland for 20 years and only got back to where they had been thanks to the ineptitude of Labour. There would be no guarantee that any other party would be so incompetent as to allow Labour to resurrect themselves in a similar manner so Labour could be finished.

    If Labour want to survive in Scotland, they will need to support independence before it happens so that they can claim at least some of the credit. If they stick to their unionist position, they will lose what little support they have to the Tories and the SNP. There are some in Labour who, contrary to popular opinion, are not completely stupid and they realise this. Expect a move within two years, possibly in June. That could be a tipping point for independence, as even if Labour only deliver half of their supporters to the independence cause, that would take us over the line.

  38. Richardinho says:

    Living in London, still planning on voting Labour, but, bloody hell, they’re making it difficult.

  39. Greannach says:

    Remember being in primary school when everyone had some idea of what they were supposed to be doing except for Goofy? When everyone else was busy making Xmas decorations, there was Goofy trying to play Puppet on a String on his/her recorder.

    The teacher, mystified, could only ask “What are you doing? Why are you doing that?”

    I feel like we are all the teacher and the Labour Party’s Goofy.

  40. Richardinho says:

    Incidentally, this is the kind of thing that Hotherstall loves. He is a troll, and nothing gives him greater pleasure than insisting that black is white and that night is day.

  41. ronnie anderson says:

    Jeremy Corbyn introduces his Shadow Cabinet on the platform , question is what the F is Kezia Dugdale doing there sitting beside Tom Watson

  42. Proud Cybernat says:

    “There are several factors that we take into consideration when deciding how to put together our news bulletins.”

    There’s really only ONE factor for BBC to consider – if a story can be made into SNP Bad, it’s in.

  43. Big Jock says:

    It’s a very strange election. The MSM have already decided the winner and who they are backing. It’s really not an election at all, more a coronation, and any dissenters will be punished.

    What a strange country the UK is. Meanwhile in Scotland the winner is clear, but the MSM have to play lets pretend to suit the English agenda.

    Whatever happens up hear it is of no consequence to what happens down there. How can people up here be happy with being ignored and then being lied to.

    Makes you wonder.

  44. Street Andrew says:

    No such thing as an unending supply of oil. There may be a lot but it is finite. It’a also becoming a lot less important as we move slowly, but inexorably towards sustainable electricity generation from solar, wind, wave power…whatever.
    Oil will remain an important base material for petrochemicals and the sooner we stop burning this resource the better.
    The biggest challenges that will face every national economy are security of water supply (should be easy enough in Scotland) and security of electricity supply without which NOTHING works.
    Electricity storage systems at both domestic and grid scale are the key to ensuring continuity of supply from an irregular generation source. Both commodities are exportable for profit.
    We may or may not have hit ‘peak oil’ in supply terms, but we’ve pretty certainly hit the point of peak demand or will do soon.

    If Scottish Labour is an irrelevance why talk about it? Let’s not wallow in nostalgia. The future is much more interesting and is where we are going to be living.

  45. Breeks says:

    TD says:
    16 May, 2017 at 11:36 am
    “The only hope for SLAB is to declare independence from the UK Labour party and support independence for Scotland. There are some in SLAB who realise this – I think they are biding their time. They might make a move when Labour get wiped out at the general election….”

    AFTER Labour get wiped out?

    For every ten of them coming after, I would take one coming before.

  46. McDuff says:

    Jeremy Corbyn making a speech nationwide on behalf of the Labour party that seems to be going on forever giving him significant airtime in the lead up to the GE. Next it will be the Tories and Liberals with the SNP deliberately side lined and given the status of a daft wee council rather than the government of the second country in the UK.
    If this goes on for another two years without a credible media to counter Unionism propaganda we are Donald ducked.

  47. David p says:

    Jeremy Corbin’s manifesto is…

    A little red book!

    You couldn’t make this up!

  48. gus1940 says:

    On the subject of Opinion Polls and YouGov in particular I have posted comments on Wings frequently and most recently have voiced my opinion that instead of reflecting opinion they are now being used to influence opinion.

    I have been a member of the YouGov panel for several years and have previously mentioned that early on I was asked to participate in political polls but it is ages since I was last to answer political questions.

    My opinion on this fact has always been that having learned my political views (having stored my answers and formed a profile of same)they have for their own nefarious unionist reasons and to please those paying for polls they have excluded independence supporting panel members from political polls.

    Over the last weekend the results of a YouGov poll taken last week were published.

    Imagine my surprise when after that was published a couple of days ago I was asked to take place in a further political poll including GE voting intentions.

    I was even more surprised when I was invited to take part in yet another YouGov political poll this morning.

    Not content with that I was led into yet another political poll which was angled directly at the Scottish political situation vis a vis the GE and went into great detail including views on the various party leaders in Scotland..

    So after god only knows how long without YouGov including me in political polls I have been asked for my political views 3 times in as many days.

  49. X_Sticks says:

    Thanks Marcia. I thought he was going to vote SNP too. Still, maybe he’ll work ‘on the inside’ to convert more to the independence cause. We can only hope 🙂

  50. Brian Powell says:

    The ConLibLabs never answer the ‘What then’ question. If they combine to keep the SNP out and stop a second Ind Ref they will need to stay that way forever, for as soon as they separate out again the SNP will be there.

  51. Ian McCubbin says:

    A very good we don’t agree but will let you have a section 30.
    Now we are big boys with a chance no you can’t just like May changes mind. Not only that but also noted many of new Policies seem to be from SNP. National Investment bank, tax higher earners, higher corporation tax.
    Want single market too.
    Seems SNP need to capitalise on this.
    My view forget election SNP do UDI to be shot of all this posturing as none of it will help Scotland as it will not be delivered.

  52. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Ronnie Anderson @ 11.42am

    Ronnie, you asked why Dippity Dug was sitting among Corbyn’s “Shadow Cabinet”.

    Well, I suppose, if Ruth the Mooth can claim to: “sit in Cabinet with Theresa May”, then surely Dippity Dug can make the same claim for Labour.

    After all, like the Tories – they will need a tea-boy/girl.

  53. galamcennalath says:

    So, it’s Labour’s official position that Scots should not be allowed to choose their own future and democracy should be suppressed?

    If they really are saying that, then it means they perceive Scotland as a colonial possession of Greater England which is too valuable to lose. They are imperialists knowingly refusing basic rights to those they perceive as subject peoples.

    We know the Tories make it quite clear this is exactly how they view the situation, but does Corbyn and his cohorts really want tarred with the same brush?

  54. TD says:

    Breeks at 11:55

    “For every ten of them coming after, I would take one coming before.”

    I agree, but revolutions in political parties happen after defeats. The revolution in Labour will happen when the revolutionaries think that the party has hit rock bottom. When they have hit rock bottom is a judgement call.

  55. Capella says:

    Watched some of the Labour manifesto launch on RT. It looked and sounded good and there was a Q&A session which JC handled well. I hope Labour does well in England. People deserve better than grim neo-iberalism to infinity.

    But poor Kezia looked very uncomfortable sitting at the front, clapping politely, frowning heavily. She left quickly at the end.

    There was nothing in the clip I heard which mentioned Scotland or an independence referendum. So I may have missed that. Or perhaps JC left it out.

  56. The Rough Bounds. says:

    This is interesting. Big Brother Britain obviously doesn’t like us ‘uppity Scots’ doing things without asking England’s permission if we can do so.

  57. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran

    I know Kezia made a statement last week about her & Jeremy leading a labour government in Westminster , she must be getting transported by Rapid to be in the Shadow Cabinet this week lol.

  58. heedtracker says:


    Very true, Ligger Neil Daily Politics vote tory lunchtime show, total SNP black out but lots and lots of major party fun, special guest Nick Clegg’s so lovely and nice.

    Beeb gimps are in Edinburgh the now, all about “can you trust manifestos?” Fascinating. Apparently, SNP never stick to theirs.

    Another day of BBC anti Scottish democracy attack propaganda farts along. Can our fledgling democracy survive, let alone thrive under this regime?

  59. K1 says:

    You’re making me feel sorry for Goofy Greannach! Not a good analogy to liken a primary school child with possible learning (or genius) difficulties, to Labour. (imho)

    We’re down to the last gasps of a party that refuses to concede that they are irrelevant in Scotland. They won’t ‘change’ the tune because they are not an ‘autonomous’ political party in Scotland and Hothershal or whatever his name is, is under the illusion that people give a fuck what he thinks. 9th June will clarify once again that his ‘Labour values’ hold no value for those of us in Scotland who see them for what they truly are: Liars and fearmongerers. They are despicable hypocrites driven by tribal impulses who sacrificed any so called socialist values many moons ago.

    Now I want to see their numbers drop to a single digit in Scotland, maybe they’ll wheel oot Henry and he can wave some more in a last desperate attempt tae convince the diehards, that they are in fact, not…drowning.

  60. Desimond says:


    While you use logic and common sense in your thoughts on Scottish Labours future, we have to remember its Scottish Labour here.

    I think rather than think forward, there is more chance they will look back and recall Murdo Fraser suggesting same approach for toxic Scots Tory party. After Ruth beat him they have been climbing up the polls since ( at Labours expense of course).

    Labour will be thinking “Oh that will do us!”

    Scottish Labour wont see the error in following that model and all we will get it some airhead replacing Kezia as focus groups tell them that looks like a vote winner.

    The people in the party who know Independence should be the route will either step away from Labour or more likely just slide into background picking up the cash without having any heart for further fights, you know within Labour no-one will want to rock the ship regardless of how low in the water its sitting. Those cosy limited lifestyles dont just make themselves

    As for the voters..its done, the next Scottish Labour Leader will be contending with Wullie Rennie for airtime as even BBC Scotland wont be able to justify coverage of a deserted Party.

  61. Ken500 says:

    How can Labour block an IndyRef?

    The Labour Manifesto has coped the SNP policies. So have the Tories. House building, prescriptions, public grid, Royal Mail, railways. The Scottish Gov wanted to bring railways back into public ownership. Westminster refused.

    The Pollsters manipulate the vote. The piper plays the tune. In the Purdah period public polls should be banned.

  62. heedtracker says:

    Ken500 says:
    16 May, 2017 at 12:47 pm
    How can Labour block an IndyRef?

    Basic tactics, in Scotland try to get back SLab votes that are now Ruth D’s. England’s vast majority do not want to lose control of their Scotland too.

  63. heedtracker says:

    Basic tactics, in Scotland try to get back SLab votes that are now Ruth D’s

    While frauds like The Graun try their federal UK for Scotland shyste, again!

    If a con works..

    Severin Carrell Scotland editor
    Monday 15 May 2017 22.35 BST

    Jeremy Corbyn is to promise that a Labour government would investigate reorganising the UK on federal lines as part of changes to reduce Westminster’s dominance, the Guardian can reveal.

    In a major shift in the party’s thinking, ”

    A English politician, Major Shift, Promises to Investigate Reorganising, is very Severin. That guy really knows how to hustle.

  64. Capella says:

    Labour Manifesto page 104. One page on Scotland:

    “Labour opposes a second Scottish Independence referendum. It is unwanted and unnecessary, and we will campaign tirelessly to ensure that Scotland remains part of the UK. Independence would lead to turbo-charged austerity for Scottish families.”

    We’d get a £20b investment bank, an inquiry into blacklisting and they’d urge an inquiry into the Scottish Police during the miners’ strike.

    That’s it.

    I detect the tones of Kezia Dugdale in that “work tirelessly” bit. Looks like JC, once again, has taken the advice of SLab and allowed Kezia and Neil to set the tone.

  65. Clootie says:

    I now switch the News off. I no longer watch political programmes.

    I know how I’m going to vote….so why should I listen to right wing propaganda being passed off as “news”. Why accept a party political broadcast for the Tories being disguised as political analysis and debate.

    Unfortunately many, many Scots still trust the media. They even trust the BBC!

    The Tory Party….the party of the working class. Why are people not rolling about laughing?

  66. Swami Backverandah says:

    Corbyn’s vacillation is aimed at taking back Labour votes from Tories in Scotland.

    The voters are intechangeable.
    Back and forth they go.

    Meanwhile, anyone with a shred of decency rejects the vile persecution of the Tories and any association with them.

    Corbyn’s got this wrong.

  67. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Labour opposes a second Scottish Independence referendum. It is unwanted and unnecessary…”

    Except a second indy referendum is the express will of the Scottish people and the Scottish Parliament secured in a democratic vote.

    Dugdale, Corbyn – are you saying you will defy the expressed democratic will of the people of Scotland and the Parliament of Scotland?

    Simple question – Yes or No?

  68. clan rossy says:

    Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.


    Labour 2017 R.I.P.

  69. Iain More says:


    “They will catch up on Independence one day.”

    No they wont as they hate Scotland and everything that is idiosyncratically Scottish. The Tories aren’t serious about keeping Free Prescriptions. They would like nothing more than to have us fall sick and die off. This is the Tories we are talking about and they have big backers amongst the Private Medical Companies.

    In other words behave yourself. Face palm with deid fish.

  70. call me dave says:

    Jings! Both the Tories and Big labour giving a nod to SNP policy today. Funny old world darn Sarf of the wall!

    Oh dear big Auntie shuffle on numerous politico staff ‘experts’ to play down Jeremy’s ideas as too expensive… stock market FTSEs go up rapidly as Jeremy speaks it’s a done deal Tory win why boffer.

    But not North of the wall.

  71. heedtracker says:

    We better get used to all of them, from Kez to Pacific Quay, raging “turbo-charged austerity” at us.

  72. heedtracker says:

    Severin’s turbo charged federalist stuff is very turbocharged indeed today,

    “The so-called devolution taskforce, chaired by the former Labour prime minister Gordon Brown, included Dugdale; the Welsh first minister, Carwyn Jones; Jon Trickett, a key Corbyn adviser on political reform in England; Andy Burnham, now the mayor of Greater Manchester; the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan; the former deputy prime minister John Prescott, and other local government leaders.

    It is understood the manifesto does not include specific proposals for reforming the voting system or for cutting the number of MPs in the Commons, but proponents of federalism within the party believe the case for far-reaching constitutional reform has become more pressing following the vote to leave the EU.”

    You really cant fault any of this task force of con artists for trying, especially Gordo and Burnham. What a bunch.

  73. Swami Backverandah says:

    Jeremy Corbyn’s just secured his place in the Lords.
    He can swan around in ermine with Darling and the rest of the Bullingdon (breadroll) tossers.

  74. W. Habib Steele says:

    So Jeremy Corbyn and English Labour have decided that independence would be bad for Scotland! Why should English people have the right to decide what is or what is not bad for Scotland? Oh! the branch office in Scotland agree with them. The majority of voting Scots disagree with them. The English Labour Party in Scotland are irrelevant!

  75. Swami Backverandah says:

    “Holding another referendum on leaving the UK is the wrong thing to do for Scotland’s economy, especially when there is so much economic uncertainty from the Tories’ plans for a reckless Brexit,” Corbyn said.

    How about hold the referendum and let Scotland decide for itself, Jeremy.

    After all, you’re a man of principle, aren’t you? Wouldn’t stand in the way of democracy, would you?

    Or was that a load of tosh as well.

  76. Swami Backverandah says:

    Better Together backs turbo-charged Brexit austerity.

  77. carjamtic says:

    Just leaving this here,for your perusal.

  78. skintybroko says:

    Proud Cybernat at 11:11 – that is the mantra we are getting from all the unionist parties – not another DIVISIVE referendum.

    Have heard the same from Labour, Libs and Cons, no attempt to enter conversation when challenged that they are the only ones banging on about an independence referendum and not getting on with the day job of producing policies like a proper opposition.

    If you support independence you are worthless, stupid and irrelevant, I dont see my No voting friends as that, they are entitled to their opinion and I hope I can change their minds.

    Increasingly though the more hard core BritNats are succumbing to the idea that I am worthless, stupid and irrelevant, but my time will come, roll on independence.

    I know it has been mentioned before but Stockholm syndrome comes to mind.

  79. Swami Backverandah says:

    How long till John McTernan predicts a Labour landslide?

  80. admiral says:

    Iain More says:

    16 May, 2017 at 1:13 pm


    “They will catch up on Independence one day.”

    No they wont as they hate Scotland and everything that is idiosyncratically Scottish. The Tories aren’t serious about keeping Free Prescriptions

    They’ll offer “free” prescriptions, but after privatising the NHS, no-one will be able to afford the £150 fee to see your GP to get a prescription.

  81. Big Jock says:

    Latest Panelbase sub sample SNP 56% Tories 20%. Ok it’s a tiny sub sample but last YouGov also showed SNP 49%. I think the don’t knows are falling to the SNP and some Labour non Tories are switching to SNP.

    Effectively we now have a two horse race so Labour voters will have to decide!

  82. Breeks says:

    I’m confused. Why precisely would staying in Europe cause “turbocharged austerity” in iScotland?

    But before you vex yourself with an answer, is this turbocharged austerity to be taken with the same pinch of salt as iScotland being kicked out of Europe? iScotland having no currency Union or pound Sterling? iScotland having no pensions? iScotland having Full Fiscal Autonomy? iScotland having no Defence Force and being shunned by NATO? iScotland having its economy destroyed by the unique volatility of Scottish oil? Aye, no wonder they say so many pinches of salt is bad for the blood pressure.

    In case you’ve forgotten, it’s the UK which took the arbitrary, unilateral, and unforced running jump over an economic precipice without stopping to think about where they might land, or taking a parachute to control their decent into the abyss. And no, it wasn’t on the back of any great economic insight, foresight, or brainwave, it was driven by petty UKIP prejudice, narrow minded greed and bigotry and a contrived hatred of pesky foreigners who were ordering Britain about. The same “foreigners” which you now seem to think can barely contain their enthusiasm for global Trade Deals with the reinvented British Empire.

    Why on earth should Scotland listen to these Brexiteer cheerleaders in Westminster who cannot recognise the withering act of self harm which Brexit actually represents? I cannot bring to mind ANY greater act of misguided collective stupidity against the National interests in any country, or even any political or historical theatre. Britain is waaay out on its own here, carving a fate unique through all written history, with only its rabid malignant media for company.

    Why on earth should Scotland listen to these profligate fraudsters in Westminster who cannot explain why Norway has a €600 billion Oil Fund and additional annual revenue from oil which absolutely beggars beyond belief the paltry returns which the UK government has managed to contrive from the same resource? And they present that as an argument to belittle Scotland which sees not one penny in oil revenue??? These? These are financial Wizards who predict nothing but doom and gloom for Scotland’s independent economy? Fine I say. Pedal to the metal Scotland. Go! Go! Go!

    I was going to say I wish Jeremy Corbyn well down in England, but instead I wish him complete indifference. Where was he when Remaining in Europe needed a voice back when Brexit could have been stopped? Where was he when he could have crippled the Tories in their General Election grandstanding? Corbyn seems like somebody’s grandad who’d rather be playing bowls in the sunshine than wrestling the future prosperity of Britain from the clutches of this Tory-Brexit-Clusterf__k.

    We can give up on Britain. The fools have put their faith in Theresa May. Somebody’s Grandma, who can’t work things out when people are shouting at her. Brexit is going to happen, and happen without a safety net. Man the parachutes and life boats. Save yourself Scotland!

    Sadly, and unavoidably, I do anticipate a period of economic instability. Scotland currently shares a great many commercial interests with the UK, many of which will be afflicted by the UK’s economic tailspin beyond Brexit, and this damage is going to occur irrespective of whether Scotland is free or still manacled to the UK. It won’t be petty prejudice damaging trade, it will full on economic collapse south of the Border and it won’t be featuring many acts of choice or free will.

    Our salvation, a hard or soft bounce, and the speed of our recovery lies mostly in the hands of Europe.

  83. Desimond says:

    @Iain More

    I fear you missed my tongue firmly in my cheek there and thank God for free prescriptions as sounds like you might need some anxiety tabs.

    Thinking ahead, ultimately it will come to fruition as once we receive the necessary YES vote, just you watch as Tories and Labour suddenly change their tune and say “Its what the people want and we are right on board!”

    Nowt as zealous as a convert!

  84. Desimond says:


    It is very scary when you consider the possibility of Health being taken back into Westminster with a “post Brexit its easier all round if we just keep it all here”.

    The last line of defence is the SNP at Holyrood..if that goes (one way or another) then I fear there’s no Gandalf hurtling over the horizon to come save us all from Mordors wrath.

  85. Dan Huil says:

    @Big Jock 2:07pm

    Here’s scotgoespop’s take on the new subsample:

  86. fletch49er says:

    What ARE the values of the Labour Party, Duncan Haversack?

  87. Thepnr says:


    Very good video and a speech i’d never known of. Cheers.

  88. Iain More says:


    Aye I do need the anxiety tabs. I need them because I know the Tories will never change. The diehard Yoons will never change, rabies shots wouldn’t work on them.

  89. Albert Herring says:

    “Independence would lead to turbo-charged austerity for Scottish families.”

    The only Scottish families Jeremy is acquainted with, live in London. I think he’s spot on about their prospects if they stay there.

  90. clan rossy says:

    I see posters on here going on about turbocharged

    I already thought we where in turbocharged austerity
    geez i fink the yoons are trying to confuse us.

    next we will be in Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

  91. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thanks, carjamtic, a great speech with relevance for us.

    LBJ was so wrong about Vietnam but so right about human rights and injustice.

    He said that when he began as a teacher in rural Texas, teaching mainly Hispanic and African American kids, you could see the bright light of hope in their eyes gradually dim and go out by about the age of ten, as they realised The American Dream could never be for them.

    And we see all around us here in Scotland the poverty, hunger and the lack of opportunity which are an engineered consequence of this Union, and we see the policies of Blue and Red Tories who only see Scotland as a valuable resource to be full exploited, but never for our benefit.

    For Labour to say they will oppose an independence referendum when the SNP were voted in on such a manifesto commitment and then won a subsequent vote in parliament shows how deeply anti-democratic and arrogant Labour are.

    Yet they will support freedom fighters and civil rights activists in far-flung corners of the globe, and Jezza and the likes of Gorgeous George Galloway will get all dewy-eyed about these struggles for democracy and justice against arbitary power.

    What a bunch of shysters and hypocrites…..

    They deserve what’s a-coming to them up here.

  92. Jack Murphy says:

    ronnie anderson said at 11:42 am:
    “Jeremy Corbyn introduces his Shadow Cabinet on the platform , question is what the F is Kezia Dugdale doing there sitting beside Tom Watson”


    It’s only 18 months ago that Dugdale warned a Jeremy Corbyn leadership victory in the UK could reduce Labour to “carping on the sidelines” for years!!

    With friends like these….

    Save us !!

  93. stewartb says:

    One of the implications of a Tory majority after GE2017 is that the Tories will still be government in Westminster for a period after formal Brexit.

    This will be when some quick trade deals will need to be done outside the EU in order to mitigate some of the negative effects of Brexit. What terms and conditions will a UK Tory government accept to get a trade deal done ASAP with the USA for example?

    We had a close shave avoiding the TransAtlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) between the EU and the USA thanks to opposition mostly in mainland Europe. Remember the threat of TTIP to the NHS, opening up the UK healthcare ‘market’ to the US private sector?

    To speculate, one can easily envisage the Tories offering the US access to the UK healthcare market as a sweetener for a new UK-USA trade deal. And wouldn’t it be so inconvenient in these trade negotiations for a Westminster Tory government to have to acknowledge that health provision in Scotland, Wales and NI is not within its direct control. This would need to be fixed to ensure common standards of market access across the UK!

  94. mogabee says:

    I am my own person. No-one would dare tell me what to do. I believe the reality set out in simple terms before my eyes…

    Corbyn can get tae France with his maybe ayes, maybe naws.

    The day a Scottish referendum on Independence has to be at the whim of a Westminster party of either red or blue is when the rocks melt wi’ the sun!

  95. North chiel says:

    ” rough bounds @1236″ . So the Church of Scotland has to “beg & plead” to the Westminster government for permission for an international guest to visit ” our country” . Perhaps this should be the first item brought up at the next General assembly .Thereafter, the church should demand that immigration and visitor entry matters should be the remit of Holyrood in Edinburgh and not an English dominated Westminster Tory Junta and also advise their members to vote accordingly in the future. Perhaps this could even attract back some of their lost members? I might even be tempted if the Church called for Independence for our country.

  96. Dave says:

    Jeremy as with all the leaders of the Westminster parties doesn’t want to go into government without Scotland’s resources to fund it. Can only assume that he thinks he can win the GE and wants to be sure the Scots understand that they shouldn’t expect any support from Labour when it threatens his bid for power.

    I do find it interesting that all Westminster parties are eager to tell Scotland that they will never have a democratic option to take control of their own affairs.

  97. orri says:

    Actually there’s sufficient ambiguity in the Labour Manifesto

    Labour opposes a second
    Scottish independence
    referendum. It is unwanted
    and unnecessary,

    Not saying they can actually prevent one.

    and we will campaign tirelessly to
    ensure Scotland remains part
    of the UK.

    Getting a bit sinister as it’s not clear exactly what ensuring that entails. Will it be refusing to vote for an s30 or will it be sending in the troops if Holyrood goes ahead regardless and we actually vote for independence?

    Independence would
    lead to turbo-charged austerity
    for Scottish families.

    Given the reasons for your commitments usually come in front then this might suggest this is more of a threat.

  98. mike d says:

    Big jock 11.51am. I often wonder that myself big jock . how could any so called scot,want to remain in a union with a country who openly despises,and ridicules them with vile abusive comments like ‘sweaties,subsidy junkies,porridge munchers,haggis bashers,.f*** off back to scotchland,etc,etc. I honestly despair of these proudscot buts who won’t ‘grow a pair.

  99. Dorothy Devine says:

    I am listening to full throttled Runrig singing ALBA – worth broadcasting loud and long.

    And now I am listening to Skippinish singing Alba.

    I have fair cheered myself up!

  100. Dorothy Devine says:

    Caesar? Where the devil did that come from?

    They are singing full throttled ALBA also.

  101. galamcennalath says:

    Dorothy Devine says:

    Runrig singing ALBA …. Skipinnish

    … or even Skipinnish singing ALBA 🙂

  102. I hear that Coybyn is to ask big business to start paying their fair share of tax. I kid you not he is going to ASK them this great left winger ?bloody well make them no more loop holes none every body plays by the same rules left wing my A—

  103. carjamtic says:

    Hi Tinto Chiel

    Agreed,I look at with LBJ on an issue by issue basis,credit when it is due and pelters when he fcuked up.

    That applies across the board,even politicians I would never normally vote for do come out with some good stuff every now and again,they gain a my respect,if not my vote,but when you vote for them and they break your trust for me that is worse,as comes across,as doing ‘it’ in ‘your’ name.

    By deduction,I will never vote for RD,KD or WR,they seek to deny us our right to choose,our human rights.

    This speech says it all,we know what/who the inspiration was and he speaks for all of us,principles can only be taught,never bought.


  104. John Thomson says:

    Hi all just a matter of time, would say this if you do not watch msm then how can you rebuttal the absolute s that comes out of them. We can only try and keep trying until another solution appears

  105. VALERIE RETTIE says:

    “But let’s be absolutely clear, I do not think there should be another referendum, I think that independence would be economically catastrophic for many people in Scotland, it would lead to a sort of turbo-charged austerity with the levels of income the government has in Scotland and because of the very low oil prices and the high dependency on oil tax income.” What Oil as an income? Who is he to decide WE are not capable of running our own? ‘house’Look at mess the ‘Parents’have made of UK? There is NO reason we cannot run our own Country with our own Government – NONE!

  106. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I set this to several newspapers today. Feel free to pass the sentiments expressed onto any local outlets

    “As an ex teacher I was talking to another teacher today. She was in a rage about all this talk about a collapsing Scottish education system. I reassured her. First they came for our health services and our hard working health workers. That ran out of steam when it became obvious that our health service was the best in the UK. Then it was our marvelous policemen, till we all understood that our crime figures are at a 40 year low and we have 1000 extra policemen and England has 10,000 less. Now with a record number of higher passes, a record number of students at university, a record number of students in full time college places and a record number in paying apprenticeships our education is apparently in melt-down because writing standards in second year have dropped slightly – as they have across the developed world because of computers, smart phones and texting.
    We must have an awful lot of gullible people if anybody swallows this spin.”

  107. Clapper57 says:

    The problem for Corbyn is that he is in the same position as May i.e. having to appease the dissenters within his party…..only difference is that she will last longer than Corbyn as leader of her party… NOW IS NOT THE TIME for her to go….but her TIME will come I am sure.

    The knives are presently being sharpened awaiting to strike the killer blow on Corbyn post GE……three weeks post GE according to Blair McDougall.

    Got to the point where I care not a jot and give not a damn whether Corbyn succeeds in England. I was sympathetic but now realise that ANYONE, even our Jeremy, can be bought in the quest for power.

    He has thrown down the UKOK gauntlet and at least no longer needs to pretend anymore that he is a DECENT bloke in not seeking to block another independence referendum.

    Tis Funny also that both Tory and Labour seem so willing to ignore the voters who voted REMAIN assuming that they will just meekly RESPECT democracy and thus just be happy to get on with achieving the best deal for UKOK…….not sure that is wise cause I am ragin and thus assume there are others throughout this (Dis) United kingdom who are too and it will get worse…..and let’s not forget Scotland’s 62% Remain voters, according to May and Corbyn, must just suck it up as they ain’t gonna get the option to do nowt to avoid it….Better Together in sickness and in Health….Brexit being the sickness for which there is no cure.

    The Tories are playing politics (again) by blatantly making this GE all about Brexit …..but perhaps the Tories are getting too swept up in the tide of both UKIP and other political party bigots switching allegiance to them and thus forgetting about THE OTHERS….or rather those who are sometimes referred to as the REMOANERS….and Labour too, under Corbyn, desperately trying to appeal to the same manic masses while willfully ignoring the many voices of reason who oppose Brexit with a passion.

    Corbyn is , as far as Scotland is concerned, now blatantly flying the Union Jack flag and at last showing, and not hiding behind, his TRUE colours…and there is NO going back now that he has……I for one will not despair at his fall…..always knew what side he was on and it was NEVER gonna be on the side of Scots seeking self determination.

    Perhaps Corbyn should remember true socialists do not seek to suppress…and by including in his manifesto opposition to independence he is seeking to suppress our democratic right to vote on achieving self determination….but then Corbyn , like May, only believes in UKOK democracy…..and therein lies the problem…always and forever !!!

  108. Ken says:

    Labour voter in England here.
    I thought that the video reiterated the position which is, we know, Labour is opposed to independence. However, my understanding of Jeremy Corbyn’s view is that if there was a Scottish Parliament which wanted a Indyref 2, he wouldn’t oppose it. ¿No?

  109. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ideologues tend to live in a fantasy world created in their own heads. Dunc should come out. Express the inner Dunc and just admit he’s an English Tory at heart. 🙂

  110. Thepnr says:


    Ho said he would not oppose a referendum. Here’s his actual words on the subject.

  111. K1 says:

    We have already secured that second referendum in our parliament Ken. He is now saying completely the opposite of his claimed position as the article points out. It’s not up to Corbyn or May to decide whether or when we have the second referendum, our parliament already secured that vote just last month or late March. The very fact that their manifesto is said to ‘reject ‘this unwanted and unnecessary’ indyref2′ rather contradicts his original take on this?

    His position has completely reversed if as you say he ‘wouldn’t oppose it’ his manifesto in reality does just that? If as you say our parliament votes for it he ‘wouldn’t oppose it’ then as our parliament has just voted for it why then now does he ‘reject’ it?

  112. Brian McHugh says:

    I couldn’t be more convinced that Labour are trying to get completely drubbed in Scotland, in the last ditch hope that insular seperatist England will smile kindly on them for doing so.

  113. Donald (not that one) says:

    But Stu, we have always been at war with Eurasia.

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