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Wings Over Scotland

The Invisibles

Posted on May 15, 2017 by

Readers who’ve been following the ongoing avalanche of disturbing revelations about bigotry, sectarianism and racism among the ranks of Scottish Conservative politicians probably won’t need to be told that the party’s talent pool is desperately shallow.

More than a quarter of its Scottish candidates for the forthcoming UK general election actually already hold elected office – nine of them as councillors, four as MSPs, one as an MEP and of course the sole defending member, David Mundell.

(Several of the councillors have only been in their jobs for a matter of a few days and are already looking to scurry off to London for new ones.)

As for the rest, though – and following the discovery that at least two of its council candidates earlier this month had no idea that they were standing – the party’s clearly been doing some more hasty press-ganging.

Because while already-elected members are expected to be more accessible to the public, most of the remaining 44 candidates either have no online presence at all, or a tiny one, or one that they’re frantically trying to conceal.

We spent the weekend looking for the 44 hopefuls, and largely came up blank. As far as we could tell 19 of the 44 had no Twitter account at all, while two (Mark McGeever in East Kilbride and Daniel McCroskrie in the Western Isles, along with Cllr Charles Kennedy in Linlithgow) had locked accounts visible only to confirmed followers.

We also found two more locked accounts belonging to people we couldn’t definitely confirm were the Tory candidates (Alison Harper in Kilmarnock and Thomas Haddow in Glasgow South West) and one which had had almost 7000 of its tweets – about 98% – deleted in the last few days (Paul Masterton in Renfrewshire East, below).

We also found one account which had been completely deleted – Stephanie Smith in Edinburgh South, the wife of notorious Unionist troll and previous failed candidate Allan DS Smith, and whose account was in her maiden name of SJH Murray.

Given comments by former SNP apparatchik Calum Cashley when her candidacy was announced, we’re quite intrigued to know what we’re missing.

Of the remaining 21, most have accounts with very little activity, often amounting to just a handful of tweets over several years. Just five had accounts with over 1000 tweets to their name, 13 had tweeted less than 500 times, and five under 100.

In almost all of the 44 cases, in short, it was next to impossible to ascertain anything meaningful about the candidates or their beliefs online. (The exception being Jamie Halcro-Johnston in Orkney and Shetland, whose 14,400 tweets since February 2010 – still barely five a day –  were SIX TIMES as numerous as those of the next highest, Taylor Muir in Glasgow South, a Parliamentary researcher to Adam Tomkins MSP.)

Of course, most will be no-hopers. But readers might still be somewhat disturbed that voters are being asked to elect to the powerful UK parliament a bunch of people they know nothing about and whose only declared policy, judging by their leaflets, is NO SURRENDER TO A SECOND REFERENDUM.

Although given what their internet histories have been revealing about Scottish Tories in the recent past, it might actually be something of a relief.

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    1. 15 05 17 12:56

      The Invisibles | speymouth

    204 to “The Invisibles”

    1. Malky says:

      To be fair, I didn’t even know they had a talent puddle – it all runs pretty much at surface level for these people.

    2. bobajock says:

      Hold moly (huh!)

      That talent puddle is actually below the urinal in a pub on the south side of Glasgow.

    3. Capella says:

      Let’s hope they remain invisible.

    4. David says:

      The question is who are most of these people, and do they know who they really are, its basically some bad joke or a windup by the scots tories

    5. Pabs Miller says:

      Paul Masterton looks like someone who grew up in Buckstone in Edinburgh and had the same name. Quite hard to find any information on him though.

    6. Anne Meikle says:

      Tory voters don’t care. The ‘stick a red rosette on it’ has morphed into ‘stick a blue rosette on it’
      Public will find out when they try to raise a local issue with them, which of their Councillors will help.

    7. Ian McCubbin says:

      Backs up what happened in Perthshire. Ian James a new councillor allegedly turned up at local Tory office to be an activist and was asked to stand as councillor.
      He got in on 6th electronic count.
      More worrying is Peter Lilley’s company has the count franchise.
      How neutral is it. Even if it is he should not havevthe contract as he has links to one party. It is not impartial.

    8. Graeme McCormick says:

      The Tories and Lib Dems have nominated Gary Mulvaney and Alan Reid both councillors to stand in Argyll & Bute. Will they commit to reimburse the electors in A & B the £25,000 it will cost to have a council by election in the highly unlikely event either is elected on 8/6/2017?

    9. One_Scot says:

      Really hope that Scotland is not sucked in by the unionist parties, TV news and print media trying to weaken the SNP in the run up to the UK general election.

    10. galamcennalath says:

      If you look at any Tory gathering, the typical age is probably at least three score and ten. Certainly most members, activists even, are of ages where the are unlikely to stand as candidates. The party will be challenged to find youthful ballot fodder.

      Given that every social survey shows the young tend to be pro Indy and centre left, young Tories must be a fairly rare group. Clearly a small pool to choose from.

      I would dearly love for Davidson and May to get their comeuppance in the forthcoming election. That will only happen if pro SNP, pro Indy, and anti Tory voters get out and keep the ba5tards out of Scottish politics!

    11. t42 says:

      i don’t understand who would vote for that disgusting person who eats lice out of his beard?
      do they not have youtube?

    12. defo says:

      Sir, I feel I must take issue with your wording of “…probably won’t need to be told that the party’s talent pool is desperately shallow.”
      If by “talent” you’re referring to those being able to remember what day it is, and “pool” was what you substituted, out of good manners for something more apt, such as dribble, then fair do’s.
      “shallow” as in graphene thickness too obvs.
      Yours. Angry of Morningside. I.M.

    13. Doug Daniel says:

      “More worrying is Peter Lilley’s company has the count franchise.
      How neutral is it. Even if it is he should not havevthe contract as he has links to one party. It is not impartial.”

      As a former employee of IDOX, I’m sick to the back teeth of seeing people questioning the integrity of the people who work for it like this.

      It’s one thing to question whether a company with an MP as one of its non-executive directors should be given public contracts (a ban would at least put a stop to the “oh, you’ve lost your seat? Have one on our board then!” culture in Westminster), but unless people think Peter Lilley is a computer whizzkid who sneaks into the codebase and puts in some rogue lines of code saying “if (party == ‘Tory’) { numberOfVotes = numberOfVotes x 10; }” then you’re effectively accusing the people who work for it of being complicit in election fraud. Even worse, they’re being accused of being Tories.

      It’s not on. Stop it.

    14. Well that’s one way of reducing your workload as a councillor!

    15. galamcennalath says:

      Something Orwellian 1984ish about destroying inconvenient history. Given that there is a lot distinctly 1984ish about the present Tories, their project to erase online past activity shouldn’t surprise us.

      In Orwellian terms we Indy supporters are a wayward bunch of unbellyfeeling oldthinkers. We should all be embracing the virtue and glory of Brexit blindly without looking underneath stones. Aye, in their dreams.

    16. Welsh Sion says:

      Disunited Kingdumb*

    17. Dr Jim says:

      There is a serious vetting process carried out by the Ruth Davidson Party
      NO or YES as applicable:

      Do you respect the Scottish Parliament
      Are you now or have ever NOT been a racist or Bigot

      If the answer to both these questions is NO

      Yer in!

    18. Grouse Beater says:

      Creative Advertisement


      Applications are invited by the Tory Party, Scotland.

      We are looking for chancers, bigots, scumbags, jerks and carpetbagger for the task of unseating good, dedicated SNP MPs, and diverting the path of Scotland from social democracy to ruled by a tyranny.

      Candidates should be proficient in fox hunting, tweeting abuse at SNP key politicians, stand when ‘God Save the Queen’ is played, and adore Theresa May. Membership of closed or secret societies an advantage. Integrity and honesty are not required.

      Apply in writing to:
      Tory Trailer Trash.
      PO Box GE2017

    19. Tony Little says:

      Well said Doug.

      This doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be monitored very closely though, just in case. Personally I am uncomfortable with a politician (ANY politician) being linked to a company that has anything to do with the electoral system.

    20. nodrog says:

      Maybe they are not contributors but surfers. Ready to surf the great surge of Tory revival. A surge that has turned out to be a raspberry ripple supported by Red Tory votes.

    21. Muscleguy says:

      I don’t have a twitter account or a Fb one either. Does that mean I am disbarred for standing for election because lazy people cannot find out anything about me?

      I’m not specifically trying to defend Tory candidates, I’m only really asking about the idea that not having any such accounts disbars one from seeking electoral office.

      How long must I have an account and what is the minimum tweet density I have to maintain to be considered?

      I have no intention of travelling to Trump’s America but if I do it will be interesting explaining to a TSA drone that they can’t have the passwords to my accounts because I don’t have any.

    22. Effijy says:

      BBC announcing more jobs created in Scotland
      But as per their directive, they follow this up with
      ” but at a lower rate than England”

      When it comes time for NHS reporting in Scotland,
      They might say our target is missed by 1%, but
      Never, ever do they admit that we are by far operating
      At superior level to any other NHS body?

      Sounds like they are biased, bigoted distortionists!

    23. donald anderson says:

      Britain’s Got Nae Talent.

    24. Grouse Beater says:

      Effigy: ”but at a lower rate than England”

      That’s the British state broadcaster telling us we will never be as prosperous as England – thought control at work. Employees know their brief – always find a way to demote achievement.

      The comparison is spurious, and politically dubious coming from the BBC. For example, why not say, figures better than Iceland, or on par with Finland?

    25. Free Scotland says:

      The tories wanted to make the council elections into a debate on (of all things) Scottish Independence.

      Now that we’re into the General Election Campaign, they want to discuss things like prescription charges, which have nothing to do with Westminster and have already been decided by a thoroughly competent Scottish Government in Edinburgh.

      It’s all distraction, deflection, smoke-and-mirrors stuff. For some time now, the people of Scotland have been asking: “What is Labour for?” It won’t be long until they start asking the same question about the tories.

    26. ClanDonald says:

      If anyone knows how to investigate tax affairs it might be worth looking into Alister Jack, the tory candidate for Dumfries and galloway who’s standing against Righard Arkess. He has sold companies for multi millions and is listed as director or ex director of dozens of companies on the companies house website.

      He’s another posh boarding school shooting enthusiast who doesn’t live in the constituency he’s standing in. Exactly what the folks of Stranraer need to represent them. Not.

    27. louis.b.argyll says:

      They are the Robot Tories, who don’t have views of their own, anyway.

    28. Robert Peffers says:

      My wee pal came in to see me this morning and after reading Stu’s article said, “Ye canna keep a auld Tory doon”.

      He nearly wet himself when I replied, “Hae ye tried a widen stake through the hert an a haunfu’ o Garlic roon the boax?”

    29. Big Jock says:

      Dear Successful Candidate

      As you are aware we agreed to keep your details on file in the event of any vacancies in the future. We have great news for you. Several vacancies have arisen after the recent successful local council elections for the Conservatives. You have been chosen as an ideal candidate for one of the current vacant roles.

      We do hope you accept this offer and look forward to seeing you at the next Orange Lodge meeting. A full job description will follow in due course. This will outline the various ways to delete your Twitter and Facebook history before joining the team.

      Yours for England (No surrender)

      Ruth Davidson

    30. K1 says:

      It isn’t about them having no social media accounts, it’s that for those that do, one can make pretty informed opinions based on the content of their social media accounts. It’s also about highlighting that those who do not have a ‘public’ face in terms of their policy stances, leaves us voters with no idea about who these candidates are?

      Like it or not we live in times where social media is our access route into the minds of those who represent us. The question that needs and is being asked atl is simple? Who are these people, what are their prioties in placing themselves as candidates for any layer of government, what are their qualifications for the job that they are asking the general public to vote for them on?

      So it’s not about having or not having social media per se, it’s precisely about the completely ‘invisible’ profiles of these candidates, putting themselves forward to become elected into very lucrative tenures as MP’s. With absolutely no transparency whatsoever.

    31. Alistair White says:

      I suppose what people say about voters getting the politicians they deserve this is a sad indication of the state of the voting public in Scotland and again, having stated this before, does not bode well for any future #indyref2, despite the ‘only 25% vote for them’ argument.

      Still on the bright side, if this is the best ‘they’ can do then they really are papering over the cracks.

    32. orri says:

      The tactic is to attack and falsify the performance of the SNP in areas where they strictly should not be allowed to do so. If balance requires no mention of specific constituencies without other candidates having input it must follow that, now candidates have officially been declared that any debate or claims in those areas are out of bounds.

    33. Donald says:

      O/T – hopefully not too early in the thread.

      James Kelly (the good one) has links to Crowdfunders for some of our more difficult constituencies in the GE. Spread the love if you’ve got a spare tenner.

    34. frogesque says:

      To be fair if someone has personal stuff online or wherever and they are sensible to delete the account, especially if kids could be identified.

      What should happen in this case is an explanation and at the very least some basic info like education, work experience and political leanings (right, hard right, loony fringe or plain bonkers)

      Silencing the lambs is not clever, there will be a footprint somewhere.

    35. K1 says:

      I’m moving this from the last thread over to this M/T, as it’s important for anyone on twitter to take note:

      ‘Ian Brotherhood says:
      15 May, 2017 at 12:30 pm
      Ruth D has been taking a total doing since last night over her ‘IRA/Corbyn’ tweet.

      If you’re on The Twitter, please RT each and every condemnation of her stupid and dangerous comment. We’re seeing the same pattern as with the ‘R’ Clause – she shouts ‘Fire’ in the cinema, then fucks off.

      She’s openly inciting unrest and she must be stopped.’

    36. Dan Huil says:

      Truly awful britnat xenophobes. These britnat proudScotbuts are a disgrace to Scotland.

    37. heedtracker says:

      Ghastly, but when are hard core right wing regimes not?

      Tory BBC r4 gimps are currently broadcasting a very pleasant little hagiography to one of UK meeja’s greatest, and he is, wait for…

      Kelvin Fackin Mckenzie.

      Apparently Kevin is really nice guy this BBC r4 tory creep out explains and he’s really weally sorry about stuff what he published for his reprobate owner Murdoch.

      Meanwhile, across the pond the Dirty Digger’s crew at Fox are equally as nice as Kelvin Mackenzie, and Uncle Rupert’s currently coughing up millions of $ in sexual harassment scandals at Fox.

      Fox is very much like BBC Scotland too, in its complete and utter contempt for stuff like facts n shit.

    38. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Being an avid non-Twitterer myself, it would seem to me that the less blethering a prospective candidate had done in that medium in the past, the better! =grin=

      Hostages to fortune. Hence the abrupt deletions and other measures, even if only a few. Most of the real right-wing zealots are kept at arms’ length, so the connections aren’t immediately visible.

      Then of course there are their other handy little helpers, the Red Tories.

      The Tories have had less need to have a presence on Twitter, since their greatest appeal is with older people who mostly have little interest in it. Apparently in an attempt to reach a younger public, Facebook is becoming their go-to place for Big Data on their “customers” coupled to targeted advertising. (Or so I’m told. I don’t use Facebook myself either!)

    39. heedtracker says:

      Actually its worth hearing the BBC r4 thing on Kelvin Mackenzie just for fun facts like, Kelvin went to a “minor” public school in south London, a wannabe Dulwich, where Kelvin left his private school with one “O” level.

    40. David says:

      Welsh Sion, think you were right the first time!
      I definitely want that on the front of my passport:

      Disunited Dingdumb of Grate Brittain and NornIrn

      (Well, only until Scottish passports start getting issued.)

    41. Capella says:

      Just received my Ruth Davidson Party election pamphlet – full colour A4 delivered by Royal Mail.
      Four glossy pages of anti Nicola Sturgeon propaganda. Not a single Tory policy.
      Ruth and Theresa offering “strong leadership” against the SNP and a 2nd Referendum.
      A wonky graph says only the Cons can stop the SNP. They have 33% of the vote according to the Ruth Davidson Party.

      Is the GE just about stopping a 2nd Referendum? If so, we have a moral obligation to vote SNP to save democracy.

      Will recycle.

    42. jfngw says:


      The MSM is complicit in the covering up all of the extreme views emanating from the Scottish Tories under Davidson. For the well being of Scottish politics we have to hope that decent Labour voters considering changing to Tory wake up and recognise this would be a disaster. A heavy defeat is the only way to silence this stain on Scotland. I’m not even suggesting they vote SNP, just don’t vote for this divisive bunch.

    43. Robert Graham says:

      Right wing media on full alert , every type of social media is being overwhelmed by Tory supporting first time users, check the history of posters on u/tube, nothing , they well most of them have just apparently appeared out of thin air, This Tory guru Crosby spent millions on targeting Facebook users last time , he seems to have added u/tube – the Comment sections of all the papers – indeed all platforms where people comment . Nothing will be spared any amount will be spent to get their required result, I bet that the security services are on overtime right now, the Union is under attack .

    44. frogesque says:

      @Robert Graham 2.26.

      With a bit of digging I expect a lot of these new accounts will be fake Torybots.

      Trump used them quite effectively during his Pres campaign. They are reportedly getting more sophisticate though and harder to spot.

    45. meg merrilees says:


      Owing to popular response, we have had to raise the specifications for applicants:

      DO YOU WANT TO BE A TORY MP? (extra requirements- essential!)

      Do you agree with and can you sing the fourth verse of the National Anthem?
      What is your favourite colour?

    46. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T but funny.
      Checking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the much older lady that she should bring her own grocery bags, because plastic bags are not good for the environment.
      The woman apologized to the young girl and explained, “We didn’t have this ‘green thing’ back in my earlier days.”
      The young clerk responded, “That’s our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations.”
      The older lady said that she was right — our generation didn’t have the “green thing” in its day. The older lady went on to explain:
      Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled. But we didn’t have the “green thing” back in our day.
      Grocery stores bagged our groceries in brown paper bags that we reused for numerous things. Most memorable besides household garbage bags was the use of brown paper bags as book covers for our school books. This was to ensure that public property (the books provided for our use by the school) was not defaced by our scribblings. Then we were able to personalize our books on the brown paper bags. But, too bad we didn’t do the “green thing” back then.
      We walked up stairs because we didn’t have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn’t climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.
      But she was right. We didn’t have the “green thing” in our day.
      Back then we washed the baby’s diapers because we didn’t have the throw away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 220 volts. Wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.
      But that young lady is right; we didn’t have the “green thing” back in our day.
      Back then we had one TV, or radio, in the house — not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana. In the kitchen we blended and stirred by hand because we didn’t have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn’t fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn’t need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.
      But she’s right; we didn’t have the “green thing” back then.
      We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blade in a r azor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.
      But we didn’t have the “green thing” back then.
      Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service in the family’s $45,000 SUV or van, which cost what a whole house did before the”green thing.” We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn’t need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 23,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest burger joint.
      But isn’t it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn’t have the “green thing” back then?
      Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smart ass young person.
      We don’t like being old in the first place, so it doesn’t take much to piss us off… Especially from a tattooed, multiple pierced smartass who can’t make change without the cash register telling them how much.
      Image may contain: one or more people

    47. Capella says:

      Doug Daniel says:
      As a former employee of IDOX, I’m sick to the back teeth of seeing people questioning the integrity of the people who work for it like this.

      Nobody is critcising people who work for IDOX. What concerns me is the ease with which electronic systems can be manipulated. Is there adequate validation by experts? Or does “commercial sensitivity” prevent the system from being monitored?

      When the software is privately owned by directors connected to one political party it is natural to be sceptical.

      There are many ways of manipulating elections.

      “Another way of possible electoral confusion, is multiple variations of voting by different electoral systems. This may cause ballots to be counted as invalid, if the wrong system is used. For instance, if a voter puts a first-past-the-post cross in a numbered single transferable vote ballot paper, it is invalidated.

      For example, in Scotland and other parts of the United Kingdom, up to four different voting systems and types of ballots maybe be used, based on the jurisdictional level of elections for candidates. Local elections are determined by single transferable votes; Scottish parliamentary elections by the additional member system; national elections for the UK Parliament by first-past-the-post; and elections to the European Parliament by a party list system.”

    48. K1 says:

      Canary reporting on Davidson’s fucked up tweet.

      Keep challenging this little nyaff over this…the more people see it the more they see what a revolting little shit she truly is:

    49. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @K1 –



    50. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 15 May, 2017 at 2:09:

      ” … where Kelvin left his private school with one “O” level.”

      Aye! heedtracker, and that was, reputedly, in Plasticine Moulding.

    51. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Capella @ 14:48:

      Nobody is critising people who work for IDOX. What concerns me is the ease with which electronic systems can be manipulated.

      True enough, but a red herring. It’s easy to armchair-theorise about some notional interference, but the number of decent individuals involved and the high degree of transparency provided throughout make it extremely unlikely.

      Quasi-paranoid excursions into such territory just because one company involved (of two) happens to have a Tory director simply dodges the real question: what can we do to motivate more ordinary people to change their mind and vote for independence, or even just bother to get themselves out of a stupor of indifference and fulfil their civic duty?

      Forget casting around for alibis and excuses for failure. That’s for sad losers. Concentrate instead on winning.

    52. Robert Graham says:

      Just watching one of Jeremy Corbyns rally’s , They reminded me of September the 14 th , all the expectant crowds full of hope, i just hope these people don’t have the experience we had on the 15 th . That whole day was one I never want to experience again , but seeing these people cheering him on , brought it all back, most of us I guess thought it would be close, but the result was beyond belief, all the local debates, all the banners, the cross section of people supporting Independence, and we are supposed to believe the quiet ones who mostly unnoticed moved in and out of poling stations caused the damage , I still don’t believe we were beaten, I believe we were mugged .

    53. The ‘silent 23%’ of Tories, that Coalition of Chaos of tactically voting Red Blue and Yellow Unionists will vote for anything wearing a Union Jack rosette.
      Surely the former SoS Mundell should be leading the surge in Scotland?
      Davidson is a third rater with no dog in the UK fight, yet her face seems to be everywhere, encircling us like a shingles rash.
      When will Mundell break cover and face the electorate? Where is Liar Carmichael? Iain Murray?
      Aren’t these three not morally obliged to lead the Unionist campaign?
      Or are they considered useless tubby little bench fillers by HO? Vote losers.
      I find it cowardly that the BBC has set up a ‘debate’’ with Dugdale Rennie and Davidson, and the three Unionist MPs are allowed to keep out of the public eye,
      but the FM who is leader of a party with 56 MPs contesting this snap election is expected to debate Grown Up stuff with the Branch Office Managers.
      Have Corbyn, May, and Farron ok’d this?
      What have the three Big Hitters (no, don’t laugh) got to hide? Surely they would jump at the chance to tell the BBC audience that only their party can stop a Second Indyref, and assure us that Brexit will be ‘ok’, and not to worry about the ‘wee things’ like the economy, austerity, bombing Arabs, giving the US Military and Industrial Complex £160,000,000,000, subbing JK Rowling another 5% tax cut, and ‘incentivising’ the Great Unwashed into poverty and starvation, and/or a premature death.

      I think I’ll stand as an Independent. I have no FB or Twitter account, but have on occasion commented here and elsewhere.
      Ruth Davidson is a cold hearted not very bright little rabble rouser, who lies regularly and with cynical ease.
      Is it she who selects Tory Hopefuls?
      Well, we know what criteria potential electoral cannon fodder will have to demonstrate.
      Die for the Tory cause.
      How many foot soldiers are the Red Tories and Yellow Tories putting up?
      They could empty the benches at Holyrood for a few weeks.
      Sadly missed they would not be.
      The Union is crumbling to dust before their very eyes.
      Vote for Jack.

    54. Macart says:

      Oh good grief!

      This is the selection to plead Scotland’s case and protect Scotland’s interests is it?

      I’ll pass.

    55. meg merrilees says:

      Just been reading some of the comments under Colonel Harrison’s tweet about the wearing of the Uniform and Jeremy Corbyn/IRA.

      Wow, I mean wow!
      There are a lot of pretty barbed remarks there – she’s definitely misjudged this one.

      Keep them coming folks – she needs to be called out as soon as possible ‘cos she’s playing one helluva dangerous game with all our futures.

    56. Breeks says:

      Since we have to vote to elect a Government to run the country, why can’t we start having a vote to decide which propagandists deliver our news broadcasting service? Just sayin….

      I’m thoroughly fed up with BBC shite. I feel like a change.

    57. meg merrilees says:

      T May doing a live Facebook interview with Robert Peston just now – taking questions from across the country.

      Anyone face book-er out there want to ask her something? Now’s your chance…

    58. Meg merrilees says:

      Jack Collatin:

      or even

      Fluffy, Liar, Murray and Angus would give you a balanced panel as each of them was at WM.

      BBC controlling the Agenda again as it will automatically become 3 against 1 and pivot on the constitution. It’s the BBC’s way of trivialising the significance of the SNP.

      Nicola’s best bet is to empahsize that her opponents are all WM puppets, of branch offices – with absolutely NO REAL POWER.

    59. heedtracker says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      15 May, 2017 at 3:11 pm
      @heedtracker says: 15 May, 2017 at 2:09:

      ” … where Kelvin left his private school with one “O” level.”

      Aye! heedtracker, and that was, reputedly, in Plasticine Moulding.

      English Lit Rabbie. It is his first language, so its good to know the goon could at least get an O grade in it.

      Imagine what his parents must have thought though, shelling out all that money in private school fees for one O grade:D

      What’s the point of queue jumping and cheating, if it doesn’t work. Although it did in the tory end.

      Ofcourse Murdoch spotted thug talent like his too. Together, they changed the UK and the world really, Kelvin and Rupert, stick it up your junta, last one leaving the UK turn Neil Kinnock’s light bulb head off, stand out.

      I think I’ve seen a million boobies thanks to those two perverts too. Although they were all photographed by a female photographer and its not porno, its glamour, explain away, the massed ranks of tory liggers of the UK hack industry.

      Scumbag pervert tories the lot.

    60. Marcia says:

      ronnie Anderson

      Quite a good story. Does anyone have a freepost address for the Tories as I will want to recycle their election leaflet with amendments to it after I have received it.

    61. gordoz says:


      State of so called Scottish media – was trying hard there to come up with 5 decent mainstream journalists / tv reporters based in Scotland. Excluding online contributors obvs. No joke – I challenge anyone to seriously cite 5 or 6 decent impartial journos in daily press or TV who are maverick enough to steer clear of Union prejudice.

      Sad, sad day.

    62. Fred says:

      Excellent “Long Letter” in today’s National by a sinner that repenteth, Jim Taylor from Edinburgh. “My No vote in 2014 was a fundamental error of judgement!”

    63. gordoz says:


      State of so called Scottish media – was trying hard there to come up with 5 decent mainstream journalists / tv reporters based in Scotland. Excluding online contributors obvs. No joke – I challenge anyone to seriously cite 5 or 6 decent impartial journos in daily press or TV who are maverick enough to steer clear of Union prejudice.

      Sad, sad day.

    64. heedtracker says:

      gordoz says:
      15 May, 2017 at 3:36 pm

      Isobel Fraser is the only one I can mind. Last time I saw her she’s getting bullied, unsuccessfully, by whatshisface Davidson, the SLab goon that was going to bayonet wounded YESers after 2014. What ever happened to that tough guy?

      He’s standing again, right.

    65. Meg, we all know that Glenn Campbell will reduce it to a EssEnnPee Bad Holyrood style bun fight.
      NHS crisis, not enough GP’s, A&E Waiting Times, bed blocking, and 1 in 5 Scots kids thickos despite 10 years of the Bad EssEnnPee, not enough teachers, blah de blah de blah.
      The Three stooges will moan in three part harmony about the EssEnnPee not getting on with the day job, and Campbell will interrupt our FM as she develops her replies.
      MR and MRs Jordanhill will be parachuted into the audience and moan about once in a generation Neverendums, and Scotland voted No, so there.
      The Welfare State, Trident, Austerity Cuts, Europe, not so much.
      It will be the usual BBC Pacific Quay engineered farce.
      The overall aim is to present Scotland as a backwater, a colony, where pothole filling and public toilets are important, and Westminster does all the serious government stuff.
      Perhaps a flute band will play us out with ‘No Surrender’?Pointless waste of our licence fee as usual.

    66. geeo says:

      SNP 46%

      Tories. 26%

      YOUGOV 10th May apparently!

    67. gordoz says:

      Heedtracker –

      Think Isobel only gets ‘stand in’ appearances these days.

      Too close to impartial on the Pacific Quay spectrum.
      Donalda thinks she’s too honest 🙂

    68. Iain More says:

      I think I will apply to be a Tory MP. I mean how much hard work can it be to be a psychopathic blood sucking parasite. Well being a decent human being is bloody hard work when you have Tories grasping oor throats 24/7!

    69. Big Jock says:

      Saw that geeo- I suspect the pretend Tory revival is about to shrivel. If we can get the 45% out to vote there is no chance of a Tory revival. The Tories are relying on Labour bams to vote for a flag!

    70. TheItalianJob says:

      @ Robert Graham says:
      15 May, 2017 at 3:13 pm
      “Just watching one of Jeremy Corbyns rally’s. They reminded me of September the 14 th , all the expectant crowds full of hope, i just hope these people don’t have the experience we had on the 15 th . That whole day was one I never want to experience again , but seeing these people cheering him on , brought it all back, most of us I guess thought it would be close, but the result was beyond belief, all the local debates, all the banners, the cross section of people supporting Independence, and we are supposed to believe the quiet ones who mostly unnoticed moved in and out of poling stations caused the damage, I still don’t believe we were beaten, I believe we were mugged.”

      I’m with you on this Robert. I expected the vote to be a lot closer not a defeat by 10%. The Yes campaign was so positive and energised compared with BT it should have carried the day.

      But when you see what we have in Scotland i.e. people still voting for the WM establishment parties you can see fully what we are up against. Look at the candidates being proposed above for the Tories at the GE and you get the drift of what we are truly up against. And what is more frightening is people are actually going to vote for some of these shady characters.

      Remember the statement in the HOC during Indy 2014 by Jimmy Hood ex Member of Parliament for Lanark and Hamilton East. “I don’t care if Scotland is more wealthy, more prosperous or better off by being Independent I’m still for the Union.

    71. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      heedtracker @ 15:43,

      Ian Davidson, tribal chieftain of the “low-flying Jimmies”, used to have a house in a street near mine, here in Glasgow. (Not in his actual constituency, mind you, that would have been just too, too infra dig.) Gave it up soon after the electorate gave him the old heave-ho.

      And the big removal van parked on the street outside was from “Brittania”. How very apposite!

    72. Robert Graham says:

      Probably really nice people who work or have worked for organisations who count the votes.
      That’s not the point No Politician , what ever the flavour , can have any involvement however tenuous to any company that is involved with counting or handling ballot papers , Perception is everything ,the two go together Politician and cast Vote should at all times be separated , it’s for trusted individuals and verifiable organisations only to be entrusted with this work .
      Peter Lilley was not one of your run of the mill Tory backbenchers , he was a government minister, that alone should raise concerns and questions about a conflict of interest, it might be perfectly innocent, Suspicions about black listing in the building trade were dismissed as just coincidence until they were proved, as were the NRB notices in the oil industry, if something smells its usually rotten .

    73. Dr Jim says:

      The nightmare of Theresa May

      England leads the world they tell us
      Whereas in Scotland we are lower rated people
      Ireland suffers from that too
      Wales isnae even in it, poor souls

      The European Union is out to get England
      And apparently so is Scotland
      Ireland might bring back the IRA
      Wales is still F….d

      The Russians are planning to cyber attack England
      Scotland can’t be trusted not to join them
      Ireland are Saboteurs taking the EU side
      Wales is still a burden

      England will stand against the world to purge separatists
      Scotland is full of separatists
      Ireland were separatists so they’ll help the Scots
      England can’t keep funding Wales

      Theresa May has public meetings in private
      Nicola Sturgeon has public meetings in public
      Ireland won’t tell England their plans
      Famine worries over Wales

      England is paranoid because they’ve F….d up and they know it
      Scotland knows it too and can’t get their feet out of Englands mud quick enough
      Ireland are waiting with a wry smile for the downfall of their long time oppressors
      Wales has been sold to the Isle of Man

      The EU looks forward to Nicola Sturgeon and Scotland taking their turn as EU president

      Theresa May in hospital after suffering a kick by a horse at a fox hunt
      Medics said it was a strong blow but she’s now in a stable condition

    74. TheItalianJob says:

      And here is the YouTube link to Jimmy Hood’s statement in the HOC in 2014.


    75. yesindyref2 says:

      @Doug Daniel
      I totally support what you say.

    76. CameronB Brodie says:

      Is the GE just about stopping a 2nd Referendum? If so, we have a moral obligation to vote SNP to save democracy.

      Absolutely. We are morally obligated to do all in out power to resist Anglo-American neo-fascism. We are morally obliged to respect human rights. We are morally obliged to consider the needs of future generation.

      Social deprivation has a hereditary component to it’s persistance. Anglo-American neo-liberalism can only widen and deepen existing inequality. The British Establishment’s uber-Tory values lacks any sense of bioethical morality, frankly.

    77. Big Jock says:

      I am now wondering what sinister organisation membership and past misdemeanours the glorious Davidson has hidden. Has no-one looked into this?

    78. Big Jock says:

      There were two reasons why this election was called. One for May to ride roughshod over parliament and claim legitimacy at the ballot box. The other to run a parallel fake Scottish Independence referendum as part of a GE to weaken the momentum of yes.

      She will succeed at the first,and claim victory at the second,no matter the outcome. The question is how we handle the claim.

      We know it’s nonsense as does she. It’s a strategy not a belief.

    79. Richardinho says:

      You have to wonder at anyone Scottish who wants to join the Tory party. I think they must be severely emotionally disturbed people.

    80. Gordon M says:

      @Doug Daniel

      100% this. Although not for IDOX I have worked on large-scale image capture and aggregation for elections and other enterprise-scale applications and I can guarantee that whatever voter fraud may be carried out, it won’t (deliberately!) be in the technical solution.

      Besides, there are far easier and less obvious, yet legal, ways to manipulate votes e.g. via burdensome/constant registration which disproportionately affects only certain segments of the population.

    81. Legerwood says:

      orri @ 3.40

      I think she should have proof-read her LinkedIn entry more carefully. It contains some typos.

    82. Juteman says:

      @Big Jock
      Spot on. England couldn’t handle the financial crash that Scotland leaving the union would bring. They will do Anything to hold onto Scotlands assets.

    83. mike d says:

      No Richardinho,anyone ‘Scottish?.who wants to join the tory party is a selfish bigoted fascist f**k you’s I’m alright jack.

    84. Bob Mack says:

      It is sad to think that whilst the Tories try to create religious and racial segregation I am sitting here typing to do nothing but promote inclusion and democracy . Half my family are staunch Unionists but I love them dearly ,as they regard me. They will never judge me on that basis,nor me them.

      What Davidson and Co are doing is beyond reprehensible. It is wilful incitement of sectarian division and hatred. That may have worked years ago,but Scotland of today is more interwoven than 40 years ago. Can wife hate husband and father hate son in law?

      The candidates emerging from their swamp are most likely those who hold views from last century which do not hold sway in a modern society. They will have their followers for sure, but I prefer to believe that most people are like me, and will never judge another on their race or religion.

      We fight on regardless. The written word is our weapon of choice and decency and tolerance our shield against this horrid regime which controls our population. I will never give in. I do not fight because I want to be better than anyone. I fight because I want us all to be the same. Equals with equal opportunity.

      Our opponents fight to surpress that vision. They can never win. Inexorably the tide will at some point turn against them and consign them to history and oblivion. Perhaps not in my lifetime, but inevitably.

      I suppose that is why I love Wings. It is not just the posters I agree with. It is also the reminder from other posters ( defined as trolls), that there has to be a better way than the narrow views they express on here. Wings has become my sanity check in an ever more confused political world.

    85. dakk says:

      @Jack Collatin

      ‘MR and MRs Jordanhill will be parachuted into the audience and moan about once in a generation Neverendums, and Scotland voted No, ‘

      The good denizens of the enclave may be too busy fighting the planned big Cala housing development at the old college to care about the GE.

      I heard a rumour the site was also earmarked for a giant new sewage works.Or was it a new nuclear power station?

    86. TheItalianJob says:

      @Bob Mack

      Good honest and great post Sir.

      That’s why we will win.

    87. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Richardinho @ 16:56,

      I think we’re in danger of forgetting that, no less than other main parties, the Tory party is a coalition of distinct interests, some of whom are also nervous about the direction that May and her gauleiter in Scotland are taking their party. (Derek Bateman had a comment on that recently, I seem to recall.)

      What this “strong and stable” mantra is all about is convincing both her own party faithful and also all those ordinary people who feel uncertain about the future (of which there are many) to “rally to the flag”. It’s the political equivalent of war. (The last time being for real, with Thatcher and the Falklands.)

      “Never mind how this happened (oh, please, look the other way, don’t start recalling who started this whole guddle in the first place), now we plucky Brits are under threat and we have once again to stick together in this old Union and take on the whole world on our own.”

      That’s the Mayhem agenda. And just like the EURef, the media do absolutely diddly-squit to puncture this utterly vacuous sell.

      Same with Col. Davidson. It’s all megaphone Barnum-and-Bailey circus bluster without any substance. Look just how easy it was for a decent journalist to expose the bluff.

      It seems to me that if this bubble were punctured, it would go ==phaaaarp== all around and end up flopsy and deflated on the floor.

      There must be a lot of people, Tories included, who see the increasingly-autocratic direction that May is taking as an imminent danger to us all.

      Meanwhile, time is passing, the EU27 is not going away, and Brexit isn’t going to bite any less because May is neglecting her day job and busy fiddling away with her personal distractions.

      There’s a lot of Scottish Remain voters, including Tories, who need reminding that they’re still heading for an almighty car crash, and the Mayhem Gang still haven’t a damn clue of how to deal with it.

      Rallying to the flag is a sham – it just isn’t going to save anyone from anything. People need to be reminded of that crucial fact.

    88. Giving Goose says:

      Meanwhile in Beauly I just looked at the post through the letter box.

      Leaflet from the other Tory party, the LibDem Ultra Unionist and Conservative Party.

      It’s got a big pic of Bad Salmond and lots of stuff about SNP Bad and…SNP Bad.

      Very uninspiring and frankly anti-Scottish.

      Boring and binned!

    89. W. Habib Steele says:

      Wisdom from John Wesley

      I met those of our society who had votes in the ensuing election, and advised them
      1. To vote, without fee or reward, for the person they judged most worthy
      2. To speak no evil of the person they voted against, and
      3. To take care their spirits were not sharpened against those that voted on the other side.”

      We may condemn the manifestos and policies of those we will vote against. We may not reduce ourselves to name calling. I read too many posts in which Unionists are called “scum” by Scottish Sovereigntists. This is unworthy of us, and reduces us to the level of the Unionists who call us by such names.

    90. Tinto Chiel says:

      “I am now wondering what sinister organisation membership and past misdemeanours the glorious Davidson has hidden. Has no-one looked into this?”

      Yes, she worked for BBC Scotland, Big Jock 😀

      Hood, my thankfully former MP, really disgusted me, along with Maxton, for scaring the Bejaysus out of our local pensioners with his “They’ll come for your pension books if you vote Yes!” schtick.

      He did little for his constituents but he liked buying the occasional Jag.

      We’ve got a real MP now…..

    91. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Giving Goose @ 17:41,

      Oh, that’s neither ecological nor participative. Elections are in part about informing those who seek to rule over us about how we think.

      So instead, send the leaflet back whence it came, together with your considered reaction to it.

      Without stamp, of course. =grin=

    92. meg merrilees says:

      Well said Bob Mack.

      Big Jock – I think Nicola has this one well and truly sussed.

      You’re right that they’ve made it into a dummy run for Indy ref 2 and they believe that the Tories are resurgent – as Brian Taylor said after the BBC claimed the Tories had won the Local Elections- It’s all about momentum!
      Even if they don’t believe that the Tories are resurgent in Scotland, they can rely on the BBC telling everyone that they truly are gaining popularity.

      I think the momentum is with Corbyn in England.

      The more confident the Unionists become, the more mistakes they are making – see the issues re new Tory Councillors in Scotland; Rape clause etc. .

      Nicola’s statement today about demanding a seat at the Brexit table is twisting the screw a bit more and keeping the pressure on T May – making sure TM knows that we know it’s about Brexit NOT the Constitution.

      NS knows the reception she is getting around the country is genuine.
      She is cool and just keeps setting out the facts.
      The bigger a majority she can get the better – I can’t wait for June 9th, till it’s all over and NS can get on with her strategy.

    93. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s some post-modern thought especially for the BBC in Scotland’s favourite Scottish go-to WANK ‘expert’, your’s and my favourite TORY-FANBOY, David Torrance, with his degree in Psychology and shit.

      Journal of Theoretical and Philosophical Psychology, 2015, Vol. 35, No. 2, 103–116

      Neoliberalism and Psychological Ethics
      Neoliberalism is reformulating person-hood, psychological life, moral and ethical responsibility, and what it means to have selfhood and identity. Neoliberalism is now, and should be,of great concern.

    94. sinky says:

      Good old BBC election coverage rather than asking party leaders what policies they have or what they think about Tory plans ask them what they think about SNP.
      Then Glenn Campbell pours cold water on SNP’s claims in neutral BBC fashion.
      Now keeping the fishing angle going.

    95. jfngw says:

      The alternative universe of BBC Scotland GE coverage. Apparently the GE is to hold the SNP to account not the actual government in power at Westminster. This is why they want to talk about devolved issues only, or an independence referendum that has already been decided at Holyrood.

      The Tories are to be given a free ride, none of their seven years of government is to be reviewed. I wasn’t really expecting too much from BBC Scotland, but they have not even reached my low expectations. Tory statements are to be taken without question, whereas every SNP policy (even if it is not actually a policy yet) is to be probed to death.

    96. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ask yourself this question. If the BBC dose not have an agenda of supporting conformity with institutionalised prejudice, why would they promote an acceptance of uber-Tory philosophy and bigoted, British nationalist, racism?

      This one is for the vile seps out there and all other social deviants.

      Strain Theory: How Social Values Produce Deviance

    97. Cadogan Enright says:

      Was tRuthie’s tweet reported on the BBC anyone? It does not seem to be on the BBC website

      If not reported , I will send it to

    98. Rock says:

      The unionist media led by the BBC, the enemies of the Scottish people, will sharpen their attacks on the SNP.

      The “independence suppporting” The National should expose and attack the Tories with front page headlines everyday until the Westminster election.

    99. Maryscot says:

      Look on “commonspace.” Full page article this afternoon stating “tories silent on bigotry in party”. Mentions Ruth Davidson. Now TM will have heard about it.

    100. Rock says:

      Big Jock,

      “There were two reasons why this election was called. One for May to ride roughshod over parliament and claim legitimacy at the ballot box. The other to run a parallel fake Scottish Independence referendum as part of a GE to weaken the momentum of yes.

      She will succeed at the first,and claim victory at the second,no matter the outcome. The question is how we handle the claim.”

      As I had posted earlier,


      “She will almost certainly succeed.

      She has outsmarted Nicola Sturgeon by calling an election to avoid giving her response to an independence referendum.

      The Tories getting an increase in their vote and opinion polls suggesting no majority support for a referendum before Brexit has been completed will embolden her to refuse permission.

      As we have seen over the last 310 years and continue to see, “sovereign” Scots are big mouths without a spine.

      Calling the likes of May fools and idiots is extremely naive.”

      Nicola calling a referendum without Westminster’s permission will be nothing less than the start of UDI.

      Do “sovereign” Scots have the spine for it?

      I don’t think so.

      Despite everything, there is hardly 50% support for independence.

      If we can’t have a Yes vote before Brexit has been completed, we are looking to a further 310 years at least as a colony of England.

    101. Thepnr says:

      @W. Habib Steele

      A government that will take away disabled peoples mobility vehicles or reduce their benefits because they have more than one bedroom.

      A government that will make 18 to 21 year olds homeless because they stop giving them housing benefit.

      A government that will privatise the NHS reducing access to GP’s and A&E services, that ensures longer waiting lists.

      Need I go on? In my eyes any government following these policies are scum. In particular Toxic Tory Scum and I won’t let them forget it. So please don’t lecture us here on Wings.

    102. Elmac says:

      Double A4 Tory election leaflet through my letterbox today. Line after line of unmitigated lies which I have marked as such in indelible ink in large letters. One half of the leaflet was mailed back to the wasps nest at 67 Northumberland Street, Edinburgh, EH3 6JG (with no stanp). The other half now adorns my holly tree next to the roadside – laminated of course due to the current inclement weather.

      Recently there was an item on wings re a leaflet from SNP youth which compared tory policies on one side with SNP on the other. It was to the point, concise and very effective. Can’t find this now. Does anyone have a link?

    103. Col says:

      The BBC really have declared war on Scottish democracy. They make me so angry, who the hell do they think they are? They should be locked up for crimes against democracy. Shady bastards the lot of them.

    104. Breeks says:

      I know it’s a serious business, but really, the Tories, and Ruth Davidson in particular is more like a cross between Yes Minister and Dad’s Army.

      I mean, you had Theresa’s amateurish caper in the Woods, followed by the toe curling “interview to camera” with a gushing Captain Mainwaring, and trying to find somebody willing to open their door to meet Theresa. Then there’s the newly elected councillors who aren’t in the job 24 hrs before they’re in disgrace for an online discussion the honourable member’s girth, that sees him kicked out the BB’s but not allowed to resign from the Tories. Others having to hide a history of online abuse from the “sent” folder.

      Then, trying to avert disaster, Captain Mainwaring needs a safe harbour, so shoots off down the docks in Aberdeen to get her photo taken with some hardcore Unionists who are so hardcore one is Xenophobic racist who wants somebody to “take out” Nicola Sturgeon. OoopS!

      To find your “Tory Resurgenge” is not so much about revitalised Tory policy so much as it is a covert UKIP-Orange Order conspiracy to pose as Tories just long enough to take over Warmington-on-Sea.

      I’m sure there’s an entire episode you could build about Ruthie’s army manoeuvres in the countryside using mobility vehicles merely hours after removing thousands upon thousands of mobility vehicles from disabled folks.

      Casting would be a synch. Col Harrison is a certainty for Mainwaring, right down to the “curious” honorary rank and pompous stupidity. If the Scottish Tories only had one shotgun, you know Captain Davidson would be scheming to get hold of it. Then there’s Jamie Green as Pike…

      I’m sure there’s another episode just waiting to be written where Col Ruth has a meeting with General Johnson, after calling General Johnson a general Johnson, and a liar to boot… Awkward!

      To top it all, and sorry I don’t have the link, was the inspired picture of the Dad’s Army intro logo, where the 3 EU triangles are cornering the “Nazi” triangle across the Channel in Britain. Inspired, and whoever did that, I salute you. Ha ha ha.

      There is so much raw material there, and I haven’t even mentioned the buffalo incident, the tank squatting, the Sit down affair, the Brexit Hokey Cokey, the Rape Clause…

      All it needs is a script writer to pull it all together. Maybe somebody at the BBC could pull it all together and turn it into a cohesive plot scenario….


    105. Street Andrew says:

      Ah! Peter Lilley is IDOX is he.


    106. Rock says:


      “Need I go on? In my eyes any government following these policies are scum. In particular Toxic Tory Scum and I won’t let them forget it. So please don’t lecture us here on Wings.”


      Not just fools and idiots?


      “Bumbling fools making an embarrassment of the UK never mind Scotland. Just think of Boris Johnson, Fox, Davis or Gove. Not only is May herself an idiot she has surrounded herself with them and they are calling the shots. Calling them wrongly of course as like Harrison they too are delusional. Idiots.”


      “They are neither fools nor idiots. They are some of the nastiest people around.”

      “Calling the likes of May fools and idiots is extremely naive.”

      “You have no idea who we are dealing with.”

    107. McDuff says:

      Aint that the truth.

      After all the broken promises since `14 if the polls are correct we have a mere 50% for indy. Now I know that there are some who are giddy about an increase of 5%, personally I think its pathetic and for an independence vote to be credible we need at least 60%.
      Our greatest enemy is the MSM especially television which brainwashes a naïve public 24/7 with distorted one sided bulletins which are hard to counter. Thank God for WOS.
      The GE debate is dominated on tv entirely by the English Tory and Labour parties with the Liberals also receiving plenty of coverage. So people in Scotland are constantly watching these parties being interviewed to death and are thus receiving a serious amount of publicity to the exclusion of the SNP. Its“ go compare“ and “we buy any car“ hitting Scottish living rooms every minute of the day.
      In fact over the past few years its all English education English NHS etc etc etc, the 10 million pop that make up the rest of the UK (same pop as Norway and Denmark combined) are now almost totally excluded from anything. I am now living in England.
      So something rather drastic has to happen to counter the mad dog that is the MSM whether it be billboards, or mass distribution of news letters with WOS exposure of the lies of Unionist propaganda.
      But something HAS to happen and happen soon.

    108. CameronB Brodie says:

      @ tRuthless, “Orwell”, Harrison
      I suppose you disagree with Benedict Anderson, Augoustinos and Ernset Gellner? Is nationalism not a majority pastime? Would a lack of it’s existence not result in a breakdown in social cohesion? Why is contemporary, Anglo-centrist, British nationalism better than “organic” Scottish ‘nationalism’, rooted in culture and landscape and expressed through logic and pragmatic reason? Why does the BBC give you such an easy time?


    109. mike d says:

      McDuff .in full agreement with you here.

    110. Glamaig says:

      Juteman says:
      15 May, 2017 at 5:14 pm
      ‘Spot on. England couldn’t handle the financial crash that Scotland leaving the union would bring.’

      I’d be prepared to send them something from our foreign aid budget if they were really in trouble but there would be conditions- they’d have to implement SNP policies 🙂

    111. Sunniva says:

      I read Stephanie Smith’s tweets before she locked them. This was when she was standing for the Council elections. From my recollections there were not many of them, less than 100 with very few followers but a few of them were quite offensive about the SNP. I wish I could remember them more particularly but I can’t. All I remember was that they were spiteful and childish.

      She is a tax solicitor with KPMG where her speciality is expatriate tax.

    112. bob says:

      Not much comment on here about Sturgeon’s admission that education, particularly literacy and numeracy, in Scotland is a wee bag o’shite, as you lot would say.

      Assuming you can read, and that you read those articles, anyone want to say why this isn’t a real, geniune ‘SNP bad’ story?

    113. heedtracker says:

      bob says:
      15 May, 2017 at 9:51 pm
      Not much comment on here about Sturgeon’s admission that education, particularly literacy and numeracy, in Scotland is a wee bag o’shite, as you lot would say.

      Assuming you can read, and that you read those articles, anyone want to say why this isn’t a real, geniune ‘SNP bad’ story?

      If you could actual spell, you might have a point about literacy being a bag o shite Bob. Dear christ yoon culture’s dumb.

    114. CameronB Brodie says:

      Not all hope is lost for you with such an imagination. 😉

    115. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Bob the baiter.

      Awoait mate, ahhs it gaahin?

    116. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      It is being ignored that reading standards have remained stable and that writing is the problem. This has been going on for decades. We used to get trained to write properly in primary school by having daily writing lessons but that has gone years ago.

      I have little doubt that computers, smart phones and texting will continue the process and we will produce a generation that doesn’t write at all and doesn’t need too to communicate.

    117. Cadogan Enright says:

      @ Bob 9.51

      probably because of this

      and you can look at class sizes for all 4 UK countries too both at primary and secondary level – Scotland wins every time

    118. bob says:

      Yep, no comments at all.

    119. heedtracker says:

      bob says:
      15 May, 2017 at 10:10 pm
      Yep, no comments at all.

      So what do you suggest bob, because you’re clearly such a caring chap? More teachers, better pay, smaller classes, better teachers, better kids?

    120. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Yep, no comments at all.”

      Why attempt to converse with a proponent of duckspeak?

    121. Still Positive says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @ 10.09

      As a retired teacher, about 10/12 years ago pupils in secondary school were writing ‘textspeak’ in their jotters and I, and other English teachers, were fighting a seemingly losing battle. So no real surprise that writing has deteriorated.

    122. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      bob @ 21:51,

      Hi bobbie. How nice of you to drop by.

      Firstly, “Sturgeon” isn’t standing for election, didn’t you know? She had her election a year ago on devolved issues like education, and in case you have also forgotten, also won, and as a result her party runs the Scottish Government. Many people besides dedicated SNP’ers have been thanking providence for that, since otherwise we would have been at the mercy of the incompetents and malefactors whom you presumably support.

      Secondly. this election was called by Theresa May, despite declaring many times that she wouldn’t do any such thing, since she evidently somehow feels the need to shore up support in view of the coming Brexit to which her party has ended up being committed, despite fighting the last UK election promising the very opposite. Is that kind of serial vaccillation what you would call “stable”, old boy?

      How “strong” is May when she’s too feart to debate any of her policies with anyone, eh?

      As for Brexit, how do you think that’s going, then? May made a point of spitting out accusations about others “not doing the day job” and here she is, diligently not doing the day job herself. Instead she takes time out to appear with hubby on the TV equivalent of “Hello” magazine. That’s really getting us moving economically, don’t you think?

      Meanwhile, the rest of Europe is laughing at our stupidity. We have been such a good example of this that electors across the continent are choosing leaders who aim to do the exact opposite of Mayhem.

      Oh, and Brexit is still coming, if your evident idol Mayhem has her =oooh!= “strong” way with us and we in Scotland don’t have the good sense to escape that catastrof***-in-the-making. How better off do you think you will be, bobbo, when that financial tsunami comes round and hits you full square in the pocket? You have already lost 15% of the value of your money, and that’s just the down payment. You won’t be so chirpy on here then, I would bet upon it, you snide little squit.

    123. meg merrilees says:

      Hearing that the Councillor Davies has been suspended by the Tory party. However he is not resigning from Stirling council – will stay on as an Independent.

      Seems Tory Councillor Majury has not yet turned up for work either since having been elected.

      What a shameful situation.

    124. HandandShrimp says:

      Watched Damien Green on Newsnight declaring that people love their zero hour contracts and therefore there is no need to do anything about them or anything else for that matter.

      I think that is all anybody needs to hear about Conservative compassion for ordinary working people.

      I don’t think he actually offered anything. What a callous, glib fraud.

    125. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J. Sutherland
      Man, you’ve a lot a patience and show a selfless willingness to help those less fortunate than yourself, which is nice. 🙂

    126. jfngw says:

      There was one point of good news today, I learned I am over qualified to be editor of The Sun.

      K. MacKenzie TAS

    127. jfngw says:

      Noted that on the late Rep Scot the three unionist parties are agreed that the voice of Scottish voters should not be represented at any Brexit talks unless we vote for a unionist party.

      The message is clear, even from MP’s that are supposed to be representing Scottish voters, get back in your box an let the big boys (or girls) do the negotiation. Scots are not genetically programmed to negotiate.

    128. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      Seeing as you’re around, I’ve been reading some of your links over the past six months or so and honestly didn’t have the time to get into conversation about it, but IF you’re so-minded I’d like to sound you out about your thoughts on some thinker dudes, esp Bakhtin.

      Could we maybe get a wee blether going on O/T? (And that invitation is open to abody!)

      Hoots mon – hope you’re well.


    129. Tam the Bam. says:

      Someone (name escapes me) posted a supposed YOU GOV poll on GE voting intentions returning: SNP 46% … Scots Tories….whatever…..anybody confirm the SNP figure?…been looking without success.

    130. HandandShrimp says:


      That was a sub sample of the most recent YouGov poll. SNP 46% Tories 26%

      It was a sub sample so the numbers are a bit more fluid than a full 1,000 sample in Scotland proper.

      I posted a link to it last night in yesterday’s thread.

    131. Bob Mack says:

      Here’s the rub.

      The Nasty national party is saying “you can all have a vote and vote no if you want”

      Meanwhile the nice Unionist parties are saying “No we are not allowing you to vote at all, in case you say yes”

      Which is the more Democratic?

    132. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Happy to Ian. I’ll be lurking. 🙂

    133. Legerwood says:

      Still Positive says:
      15 May, 2017 at 10:42 pm
      Dave McEwan Hill @ 10.09

      “”As a retired teacher, about 10/12 years ago pupils in secondary school were writing ‘textspeak’ in their jotters and I, and other English teachers, were fighting a seemingly losing battle. So no real surprise that writing has deteriorated.””

      Twenty years ago I was teaching at one of our ancient universities. Students were arriving from school writing in capitals! No joined up writing – and no paragraphs. The students had Highers and CSYS with lots of’A’s.

      This situation has been building for a long time. There is no quick fixes for it.

    134. meg merrilees says:

      I see the Tank Commander has been speechifying about nationalism in South Britain tonight.

      Ms Davidson told her audience: “Nationalism is about power, and its obsessive pursuit, and the dichotomisation of a population into the authentic and the inauthentic.
      “Here in the second decade of the 20th century, despite his [George Orwell] efforts, nationalism is still confused with patriotism.
      “That is because, too often, there are political movements that deliberately ensure that is the case.”

      The SNP’s Ms Brock said of the speech: “This is a lesson in double-think from Ruth Davidson, whose own political message could not be more ‘tribal’ – it is Orwellian to lecture others on nationalism when she’s the one who drapes herself in a flag and drives around in a tank.
      “Her claim to the moral high ground is totally undermined given that the SNP’s vision of an independent Scotland is inclusive, outward-looking and internationalist, while Ms Davidson supports a Brexit Britain turning its back on its nearest neighbours and trying to make enemies of our European allies.”

      Scottish Labour’s Mr Kelly called the Ms Davidson “an embarrassment”.
      He added: “This is the leader who turned our political debate into a shouting match about flags rather than the issues people care about. At every turn Ruth Davidson has put the narrow British nationalism of the Tories ahead of what’s best for the people of this country.

      Jings! it comes to something when James Kelly considers she’s an embarrassment!!!

    135. Thepnr says:

      It’s obviously not a prerequisite to have any social media accounts such as on facebook or twitter to be a politician.

      I’d guess though that it would be a good way of communicating to your constituents and the wider public what you stand for and what you are trying to achieve.

      Personally I’ve been on Facebook for about 4 years and probably haven’t posted in the last two, I’ve been on twitter for almost years but use it mainly to read and comment on the Wings twitter account.

      It is odd though that some people newly elected as Councillors or standing in this General Election have deleted their entire history on these platforms. Why do you think that is unless there is something on there that you think could come back and bite you on the bum?

      It’s true a few have had their arses chewed since being elected when their personal views through a tweet have been exposed. I guess that’s what has caused the rush. It’s just in case LOL.

    136. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –


      I hope we can get a bit of a discussion going. It’s important stuff, much ignored, and it’s not difficult to see why.

      Shall we aim to get it going this coming weekend?

      Thanks aplenty for the response – you’ve been ploughing a lonely furrow for long enough man, so I hope I can give you at least some wee bits and bobs to chew over, and it’s all in a good cause.


    137. Iain More says:


      You are a nob, well it rhymes! Awa and watch UKOK has nae talent! Well Yoon nobs like you make me feel like a genius.

      Well if you go to the right schools in UKOK nob land you don’t even need to learn to read and write or even know how to count to land a well paid job. Although I do suppose you have to lick some UKOK toffs anal crack.

    138. heedtracker says:

      Have nightmares O/T

      German companies reject Brexit special

      Should the UK retain access to the internal market, even if it rejects the fundamental freedoms of the EU? No, says a majority of affected companies in Germany – and is preparing intensively for the Brexit.

      German large-scale enterprises with trade relations to the UK refuse a special treatment of the country according to the Brexit majority. This is the result of a survey conducted by Wirtschaftsprüfungsgesellschaft Deloitte, which will be published on Tuesday and submitted to the SPIEGEL in advance.

      According to this, 49 per cent advocate a complete exclusion of the United Kingdom from the internal market, provided that the British do not accept the four fundamental freedoms of the EU.”

      Brace brace brace, for all that lovely tory GB against the Germans stuff, for a decade.

      Thanks again proud Scot buts.

    139. CameronB Brodie says:

      Most excellent Ian. If you want to get the ball rolling, we can all have a bleather and maybeez play some tunes as we go along. Or not, if that us how the mood takes things.

    140. Thepnr says:


      Good article, I really need to read your blog more often. More power to your pen.

    141. clan rossy says:

      Like it or lump it guys we are just a colony
      we are just a part of little fucking england
      so they would like to think

      we are being attacked democratically
      we are being demonised by all msm
      and all newspapers in this country of our birth.

      we are being attacked by politicians using the
      religious vote aided and abetted by a seriously
      corrupt media corporation .

      our democratically elected govt is being shat on from
      a great height and is being demonised by these bastards everyday and every minute of all of our lives at this moment in time.

      if this was in another country this was happening
      right now there would be civil fucking war going on

      but right now up until the 8th june 2017 i for one and my whole
      family will make our way to the polling booth for the future of my country and we will all be voting for the snp and for future independence.

      i for one and my family will not be bullied or threatened
      by any right wing xenophobic nazi fascists.

      we have got to make a stand and hopefully on the 9th of june.

      it starts there and then peacefully and democratically just the
      way ghandi done and we will win.

      peace always

    142. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –


      Fri evening then?

      I’m thinking about stuff which I’ve already discussed with another couple of Wingers who may or may not want to be named, but all I’m after is a concise common-sense explanation of stuff which is often presented as being beyond the ken of mortals.

      It really isn’t.

      And if we can get a handle on it? Could form the basis of something worthwhile…

      Roll on Friday!

    143. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      clan rossy @ 00:26,

      …we are being attacked by politicians using the sectarian vote, aided and abetted by a seriously corrupt media corporation.


      (The average Loyalist bigot rarely if ever sees the inside of a church and is self-evidently, by both word and deed, a stranger to the precepts of his nominal Saviour, whereas on the other hand I dare say there are plenty of people who both believe in the Kingdom of God and an independent Scotland.)

    144. Still Positive says:

      For all you over 60s on Facebook please get on the FB page ‘Over 60s for Scottish Indepence’.

      You won’t regret it some great posts and comments. And a great debate.

    145. Dr Jim says:

      It looks like another reason Treeza May wants an excess of power is because the Bombing of Syria looks imminent while at the same time supporting Trumps bombing of North Korea for the Cyber hacking malware

      There’s nothing the English like better than a good old strong and stable war, or are we still calling them conflicts
      Well it did Maggie no harm so get your Britflags out
      Funny how our deterrents don’t actually deter anybody from doing whatever they like
      Mommas don’t let your children grow up to be soldiers
      Long live the Queen and pass the misinformation

    146. Robert Peffers says:

      According to the BBC news tRuthless Davidson has claimed :-

      “The Scottish Conservative leader says no one should confuse nationalism with patriotism.”

      Anyone know if English id tRuthless Davidson’s first language?

      I was always under the impression that patriotism and nationalism were exactly synonymous but after the silly woman’s latest pronouncement I thought it best to check with my on-line dictionary. After all I don’t have a university education for English language and she was a former BBC journalist.

      Here is what I found :-

      patriotism – noun: patriotism.

      The quality of being patriotic; vigorous support for one’s country.

      synonyms: nationalism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one’s country, loyalism.

      nationalism – patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
      synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment

    147. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Peffers @ 02:06,

      Synonyms nicely nailed there, RP.

      Probably due to the wrong kind of education she received by the evil SNP. (Ooops. That was before devolution, and the Tories were in power in London…)

      But then Shouty Woman thinks our “nationalism” is bad because it is the wrong kind, the wrong colour, or somesuch.

    148. Wee Alex says:

      Jeremy Corbyn to fight to stop referendum, according to GMS.

      I like his policies but obviously democracy isn’t one of them.

      By all means fight for the continuation of the union but, never, never stop the peple from having the right to decide.

    149. Smallaxe says:

      Nana, Good Morning, wet and windy again, so is the weather. 🙂 Thank You, for Your Links.
      Much appreciated. Peace Always!

    150. Macart says:

      Mornin’ Nana

      Ta much. 🙂

      Brekkie on the go and ‘puter warmed up for a read.

    151. Nana says:

      Good morning Smallaxe, lol. Looks to be a damp day here too.

      Have a few more links

      Labour ‘lost its soul’ under Tony Blair says union leader Mick Whelan

      Archive only works for part of the article.

      Spotted this on twitter.

      People who live in North Lanarkshire!
      COUNCIL MEETING! To decide who runs your council

    152. Smallaxe says:

      clan rossy says: @ 12.26am;

      “it starts there and then peacefully and democratically just the
      way Gandhi done and we will win.
      peace always”

      Peace Always, to You and Yours, my Friend.

    153. Nana says:


      Good morning Sam. I saw you posted on off topic.

      For anyone who missed it, have a read here…

    154. skintybroko says:

      @Ronnie Anderson O/T – Brilliant, am old enough to remember most of those.
      @legerwood – back in the day our art teacher gave us lessons in caligraphy and creative writing, nowadays i suppose that would be considered as the English teachers domain.

      We still had the Arithmetic O-Grade, learned our times tables, percentages, ratios, etc and learned to do sums in our head – I believe some of this is coming back in some form with a title something like Maths Skills for Life – Why cant SQA just get back to basics, most graduates coming into the workplace need their phones to do basic sums, cant even provide a rough estimate, so sad but it has been going on for decades.

    155. Oldrottenhead says:

      not sure how they work, but apparently deleted tweets can be found using some of the apps on the following link backtweets looks like the best option. not had time to try it.

    156. Macart says:


      Thanks Nana.

      Some standout pieces in there today. The common space, canary and IB times should be a heads up for people especially.

      Well worth reading.

    157. call me dave says:

      Simon Pia and Duncan Hothersall on GMS on the labour manifesto and what Jeremy Corbyn meant about being relaxed about a referendum in Scotland..

      Anyhoo! Pia says if the SNP get a majority of MPs then tough for labour the Indy 2 should go ahead no problem that’s democracy.

      He just had time to remind the listeners that not too long ago a majority of SNP MPs in Scotland was enough for independence but Gary was cutting him short PDQ.

      Hothersall on the other hand saying FPTP is bad and don’t count anymore it’s the % of the popular vote that’s the thing >50% or nothing.

      Hothersall is also a liar and will deny any fact that is not in line with ‘his’ view of labour values as he twists what Jeremy actually said into Hotherspeak! What a plonker.

    158. Breeks says:

      For the benefit of Honorary Colonel The Right Honourable Ruth Harrison.

      Scottish civic nationalism is a desire to raise Scotland up, to stand on our own two feet beside other Nations as equals. It is aspirational, respectful, culturally open and inclusive.

      British Nationalism is not patriotism, it is naked blood and soil exceptionalism, which propagates the myth that the British are superior to any and all “foreigners”. It is depressing, derogatory, pernicious, and poisonously divisive.

      Scottish nationalism is something a Scot, an Englishman, a Polish bricklayer, a Syrian orphan, can come to Scotland and embrace, just as Scottish nationalism will do its level best to embrace them back.

      British Nationalism is both a magnet and an umbrella for narrow minded bigots, inflexible xenophobes, sectarians, spivs, Tory and UKIP sociopaths. It cannot function without having a “them” to hate, and a “them” to exploit, whether that’s foreigners, spongers, or merely “non-patriots” who do not rally to the beating of UK war drums.

      Scottish nationalism is a tonic which I would happily share with the entire world.

      British Nationalism is a toxin which darkens the soul of everyone it touches and afflicts.

      Ruthie hen, are you truly so dim witted that you believe your gauche, ham fisted, grubby smear politics trumpetted by the dishonest, manipulating, hateful propaganda from the Imperial BBC is doing anything except making me revile the very notion of Britishness which you so crassly shove in my face?

      I pity you. Not for the hate that corrodes you, but that you will never taste that vital YES tonic. The one that deepens my soul, sharpens my awareness, and thoroughly gladdens ny heart. It brings me inner sunshine whatever the weather. You Unionists will not, you cannot, triumph over these beliefs. Even, God help us, you are victorious, all that will mean to me is the destruction of something very beautiful and the perverse obscenity of that destruction bringing joy to you and your platoons of grey nobodies. Yes, even the orange ones are grey.

      Because somewhere, out there in your smouldering wasteland, there’s already another rebellious wee Scotch thistle that has already germinated, and already flexing its fibres to break through your BritNat ashphalt and start all over again. Not just once in a generation. Ha ha ha! Dream on you fool. We are talking countless times in every generation.

      Give up now Panzer Mooth. Resistance is futile.

    159. Bob p says:

      Clan rossy 12.26am. Great post.

    160. Grouse Beater says:

      Call Me Dave: Hothersall is a liar and will deny any fact that is not in line with ‘his’ view

      Just another instance of a Westminster sycophant rewriting Scotland’s history from positive to negative.

    161. F says:

      Ruth Davidson sees herself as a Prime Minister in waiting. Obviously her career will come first, so she will do everything to thwart Scottish independence.

    162. Footsoldier says:

      Blatant BBC Scotland bias continues on political web page. Nicola Sturgeon comments on Brexit, comments opened and nearly 2000 received many of them verging on abusive.

      Ruth Davidson comments on “obsessive nationalism” no comments permitted. What is the much heralded Donaldo MacKinnon, head of BBC Scotland actually doing?

    163. galamcennalath says:

      Breeks at 9:18am

      Summed up perfectly

      Scottish civic nationalism is synonymous with patriotism as Robert says above. You are right, British Nationalism is a quite different and unpleasant beast.

    164. Shug Curtains says:

      Breeks says:
      16 May, 2017 at 9:12 am

      “For the benefit of Honorary Colonel The Right Honourable Ruth Harrison.”

      Breeks, you hae fair brichtened up ma mornin. Guid oan ye.

    165. Big Jock says:

      British so called patriotism was witnessed in England during the Brexit campaign. It’s largely an ugly xenophobic , bombastic everybody hates us we don’t care movement.

      You only have to go to Ibrox at a home game to witness this. Or when Rangers go around foreign cities like skin headed yobs intimidating the locals. Rangers fans are no different to England fans. They wear the same colours and sing the same songs and rip up street furniture. They are the scum of Europe.

      George Square was British patriotism! Manchester. Orange walks singing sectarian anti catholic songs. Masonic lodges. Worshiping a monarchy that tramples on the poor and doesn’t allow Catholics into it’s bosom.

      British patriotism is very ugly indeed.

    166. call me dave says:


      Excellent and inspirational. 🙂

    167. Macart says:

      Ruth has no sense of irony, does she?

      Bangs on about illiteracy and educational standards, yet can’t be bothered to look up the definition of patriotism/nationalism in a dictionary.

      Breeks and Robert Peffers nailing it in both cases.

      Also someone better tell the NUT, NHS, National Galleries, National Lottery, National Trust, National Express etc, etc, so forth, they need to become more ‘patriotic’.


    168. John H says:

      I hope that not too many people in Scotland share the attitude of a neighbour of mine. An SNP voter, he’s thinking of voting Labour in an attempt to contain the tories, which is exactly the mistake I made in 1979 out of desperation, because Margaret Thatcher frightened the life out of me.

      My plan didn’t work then because a huge majority of English voters thought otherwise. If enough people think like my neighbour then the only ones to suffer will be the SNP. Hopefully I can dissuade him, but we’ll see.

    169. John H says:

      In today’s Scotland, a vote for Labour is a wasted vote. Oh the irony.

    170. Bill McLean says:

      Footsoldier – “Donaldo MacKinnon” – say it out loud and it sounds like a circus act …….. hing oan!

    171. Thepnr says:


      Thanks for the links, I try never to miss a single one. Self education you see 🙂

      @John H

      You just keep trying John, help make others see sense.


      Great post.

    172. orri says:

      Another thing Davidson can’t do is use punctuation properly.

      To be kind she might have meant to say that claims that Corbyn was only trying to broker peace when meeting members of Sinn Fein is a lie and thus an insult to the intelligence of past and present members of the military.

      However her lousy punctuation changed that in to an atrocious slander against the very people she claims to speak for. What she said is peace is never enough for our armed forces. Victory or Death is the message her clumsy little addition/omission of a comma implies. No Surrender indeed.

    173. Nana says:


      We’re all learning together Pnr. I’m just pleased my links are being read, well some of them anyhow. lol

    174. sensibledave says:

      Big Jock 9:49 am

      You Wrote “British patriotism is very ugly indeed.”

      Really? Big Jock, you define and identify a subset of Scottish, Rangers football fans – and then, based upon your views of that subset, you project and extrapolate that group as a representative sample of over 60 million non-Scots in the UK!

      As you well know, there is a subset of Celtic fans that are equally unpleasant but no one is suggesting that they are typically representative of SNP supporters – and you do yourself no favours in such comments.

    175. Alistair D says:

      I’m still lurking but feel obliged to thank Nana for her many and varied links, which I try to read throughout the day. Also today, special thanks to Breeks for his last post – the penultimate paragraph mirrors how I feel, but his words explain it so much more clearly than I could. Thanks both.

    176. Robert Peffers says:

      @sensibledave says: 16 May, 2017 at 12:28 pm:

      “You Wrote “British patriotism is very ugly indeed.”

      Well I would never have believed I’d ever agree with you, sensibledave, but to a point I do agree with the sentiment if not the actual wording.

      Big Jock is wrong as it is not British Nationalism he actually meant. It was English Nationalism/Patriotism he meant. However, I can excuse Big Jock’s error on the grounds that the English Nationalists bring this upon themselves.

      It is perhaps the most outward signs of their particularly corrosive nationalism/patriotism and manifests itself in the outrageous manner they conflate the terms England, The United Kingdom, Great Britain and Britain as synonymous terms.

      Not only that but they wrongly assume that these terms all refer to a country when the only one of those terms that actually describes a country is England, which country is, in itself, also a kingdom that consists of three distinct countries.

      That fact alone establishes the English Nationalists/patriots as nasty blood & soil Nationalists. It also defines why there now exists an actual Republic of Ireland, a Scottish democratic movement for independence and to a lesser extent a Welsh movement for independence.

      It may also explain why there are signs of a movement towards a reunification of Ireland.

      What is perfectly obvious is that you, and you are not alone, have no understanding or knowledge of all things Scottish, Irish or Welsh. A Typical, “Little Englander”, mentality in fact.

    177. sensibledave says:

      Robert Peffers

      … I should have guessed that you could be relied upon to write a load of old guff full of straw man arguments and imagined bogey men.

      Being proud to be English is no different to being proud to be Scottish. Only a bigot would argue otherwise. As for British Nationalism, that is a construct you keep bringing up and project onto millions of ordinary folk in ENgland.

      I know you conveniently forget this, but remember Robert, the only people in the UK that have ever voted against Scottish Independence – were the majority of Scots in Scotland.

      Why do I need to keep reminding you of that?

      Given that only the Scots have ever voted to express, via the majority, to remain in the UK, that desire for “Britishness” is, evidentially, proven and real – unlike in England.

      But hey, I know you wont be troubled by minor inconveniences – like facts eh Robert. As I keep saying Robert, most folk in England don’t give a second thought to concerns about SCottish Independence from one month to the next – other than when the likes of you and Ms Sturgeon keep projecting imagined desire to oppress the jocks. We don’t care much Robert. Whatever the Scots want (i.e the majority!) they should have (i.e as per recent indyref1).

      Is there any other position that non-scots in the UK should take Robert? Are you arguing that the people of the UK should expel Scotland against its wishes. I must say, in my darker moments, it has its attractions.

    178. Juteman says:

      “I know you conveniently forget this, but remember Robert, the only people in the UK that have ever voted against Scottish Independence – were the majority of Scots in Scotland. ”

      Wrong, ‘sensible’dave.
      Folk born in Scotland voted for independence.

    179. CameronB Brodie says:

      From an anthropological perspective, it can be argued that contemporary British nationalism has come about as a result of the ongoing expansion of a predominantly Anglo-centered culture industry. A subsequent process of cultural homogenisation has been increasing in force since the mid-19th century and is characterised by the value system and cultural norms of Tory England. After all, are we not One Nation?

      the values

      adoption of English culture as the standard of British-ness. This process has been increasing in momentum and reach since the mid-19th century, as a result of

    180. CameonB Brodie says:

      Oops, showing my nickers. Please ignore my workings. 🙂

      the values

      adoption of English culture as the standard of British-ness. This process has been increasing in momentum and reach since the mid-19th century, as a result of

    181. sensibledave says:

      Juteman 3:07 pm

      Wrong, ‘sensible’dave.
      Folk born in Scotland voted for independence.

      … assuming what you say is true (how do you know that?), is your argument is that only people born in Scotland should have the privilege of a vote in such matters? Is that SNP policy that only Scottish born people are truly Scottish?…. pathetic!

      It amazes me that on the one hand have I have to speak on behalf of normal, every day, good and honest folk that happen to live in ENgland in response of the ridiculous assertions by Mr Peffers – and then the next time I write I am responding to this ethnic cleansing of voting results.

      Could you two agree the lazy racial stereotyping and then ask me a sensible question.

    182. Breeks says:

      F says:
      16 May, 2017 at 9:24 am
      Ruth Davidson sees herself as a Prime Minister in waiting….

      It’s a funny thing F, a few weeks ago lots of people, myself included, were drawing uncomfortable parallels between current Westminster politics and various Fascist dictatorships from Hitler to Franco and beyond.

      The parallels were stark and alarmingly clear, but somehow sanity prevailed because missing from the mix was the central megalomania of the actual Hitlerlike individual. Theresa May simply hasn’t the drive or charisma to pull it off. Theresa May might very well be sleepwalking into fascism, but it’s bleak and wishy washy accident of chance.

      Davidson is something else. She seems untroubled by anything resembling a conscience or self restraint, and if God forbid she ever did replace May as UK PM, then the UK can tick that last box on the Fascist checklist of having a psychotic megalomaniac in the driving seat. Then we are all in trouble. UK fascism would have its “upstart corporal”…

      Thankfully, I don’t think it will come to that. Ruthie is too transparent and thin skinned, and she lacks both the likability factor and raw cunning. And yet … it’s still a danger worth keeping an eye on.

    183. Juteman says:

      Research after the referendum showed that a majority of Scots born folk voted Yes. Our aim now is to persuade our fellow new Scots to vote Yes.
      Unlike Tory nationalists, we welcome folk that make their home in Scotland.

    184. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      I’d like to add something about the semantics of ‘nationalism’ and ‘patriotism’, despite the obvious merits of seeing them as synonymous. Orwell – yes, him – wrote in ‘Notes on Nationalism’:

      “Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseperable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.”

      Therefore, with this opinion in mind I would say that despite the SNP obviously leaning more towards his definition of patriotism, with a link to the ‘power’ aspect of nationalism as an unavoidable means to an end, it is strictly neither nor. It is the Scottish Independence Party, which in its drive to reach a goal will face many spurious classifications and accusations which the party’s name alone will give rise to.

      That’s my stupid tuppence’s worth. Athankyou.

    185. gus1940 says:

      Has anybody else wondered just what is it about sons and daughters of the manse/vicarage who enter politics?

      Where one would imagine that such an upbringing would result in individuals with kind, caring and unselfish values the exact opposite seems to be the case.

    186. Foonurt says:

      Doug Daniels – ye soun lik yurr pinin, fur yoan [IDOX} fjords.

      IDOX – nivurr heard ae it, tae ye menshint it. Nae idea whit it diz, it jist sounz ah wee bit ersatz.

      Rock – yoan Earth’s crust iz thinning unnurr ye. Thoan hammurrs-ah-hell, urr skelpin. Awe yoan tory yins, urr fur it. Wabbit Scoats wae nae spine, urr gonnae bae free in Independent

    187. sensibledave says:

      Reluctant Nationalist 4.35

      Hmmm! not sure I agree with the definitions by Orwell.

      Patriotism can be about pride, support, a way of life, values, place etc – I don’t see those attributes as being fixed or “defensive”. For instance, I am proud to live in one of the most multi-cultural countries (England) in the world – far more culturally diverse than Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland. Our multi-culturalism is a part of our way of life.

      Here on Wings, people like Robert Peffers dismiss that Englishness and argues that English patriotism has, somehow, having less value than SCottish patriotism. Furthermore, he equates English Nationalism and patriotism as sordid and aggressive and oppressive. in my view use of the word nationalism is far more “defensive”, closed, non inclusive and inward looking and outsider excluding.

      I read that in Scotland, 7% of the population is foreign born. South of the border it is double that – and yet we down south are seen by some on Wings as the anti-immigration bogey men.

    188. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Reluctant Nationalist @ 16:35,

      More than tuppence’ worth, even in old money.

      As you yourself recognise, having good intentions without the means to achieve them isn’t much practical good, though. It more what purpose the necessary power is directed to serve.

      Presumably each side sees themselves as being “patriotic” and the other lot as “nationalistic”. Unionists in particular hate being labelled “BritNats”, even though that’s objectively what they are. Confronts their complacent self-regard. Yet the key to resolving the semantics is simple: which side is determined to force its views on everyone regardless, and which is willing to allow the people a choice?

      That’s the crucial difference, whatever the words used may be.

      With the benefit of a great deal of accumulated hindsight (!), it would probably have helped if the Scottish National (NB, not “Nationalist”) Party had instead called itself, as you suggest, the Scottish Independence Party.

    189. sensibledave says:

      Robert Sutherland 5.04

      I agree.

      The only area where I think I disagree is the assumption, if that is what you are saying, that anyone outside the SNP – is a Unionist. Most folk I know (down here in England) don’t care much either way i.e. they have never tried to stand in the way of Scottish Independence. It was a majority of Scottish voters that objected to that.

    190. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      sensibledave @ 16:57,

      Oh dear chap, still ploughing that lonely furrow of self-justification, are we? Huh.

      You are right, of course. The level of inward immigration in England has been much higher than in Scotland. And though there have been localised extremes in both places, they have very likely been worse in England.

      In my sojourn in England I always found the natives to be fairly tolerant and non-confrontational (which is not the same as easy-going), so it is a sore disappointment to me now to see the xenophobic direction that seems to be taking grip there these days. You can’t deny that this is true – just look at the relative success of UKIP and its infection of the Tory party, a worrying return to the 1930’s.

      But this isn’t the crux of the issue on this forum at all, nor any of the other affronts to the English way of life that you perceive and keep trying to air on here. That’s what you either don’t understand or are (as we greatly suspect) being deliberately mischievous in raising as a diversion from the real issue.

      So here goes: if the British Establishment, as we could accurately describe it, genuinely valued the Union, it would have been willing to voluntarily concede considerable autonomy to the Scots to correct the manifest injustices in this very lop-sided monolithic polity. The general population of England would have been widely indifferent, as is their wont on matters other than what directly concerns them. But their natural fair-play would have seen them through.

      So why did this not happen? Instead it has been a litany of half-hearted niggardly broken promises. A centre completely unwilling to concede an iota of power more than it absolutely must. Just like 1776 with the Americans.

      It is the Unionists who are destroying your precious Union. That’s what you just can’t seem to understand.

    191. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      sensibledave @ 17:18,

      It’s also does no good re-quoting the 2014 result, as if it’s written on some tablet of stone taken down from the mountain by Moses.

      Even before Brexit (a breaking of the manifesto promises of 2015), the reaction of the people of Scotland was clear. We had been sold a false prospectus – in actual fact, an outrageously mendacious prospectus written in vanishing ink – and up with it we were no longer willing to put. You can’t just ignore that as if it’s irrelevant.

      If you are to be honest, you have to take both parts, the result and the popular reaction to it (which was based in turn on how the British Establishment responded to the result with a complete betrayal). You can’t have one without the other.

      Don’t make the typical ignorant English mistake either of thinking this was all whipped up by the SNP, it was not. The popular reaction to the result surprised them as much as anyone.

      Whatever the actual figure of the day happens to be, at least half of the people of Scotland feel seriously cheated by what has happened, and they are not going away, despite all the propaganda being thrown at them. (You down there have typically no idea at all how bad it gets here in the media.)

      You have to be willing to recognise and admit that political fact.

      Even now, the Union can apparently only deal with this by repeating all the old mistakes all over again in the hope that they might finally work next time. Digging-in, denying any need for change and absolutely refusing to concede anything at all.

      This encrusted refusal to change, to adapt, to look for a new way forward, that is what is destroying the Union. The Brexit retreat is just one more manifestation of this retreat from reality.

      Fossilisation. Loss of hope in a better future. No offence whatever intended to our southern cousins, but we up here are done with that. How you sort out your own business is of course for you yourselves to decide, and we wish you the best of luck. Just kindly leave us out of it.

    192. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ sensibledave

      Aye, Orwell’s definition of patriotism is narrow; I only used it to apply a – somewhat dogmatic – respected principle of one renowned intellectual to the discussion on semantics. Like you, I apply more fluid principles to ‘patriotism’. I’m somewhat lacking in imagination today, so I couldn’t write something more from my perspective alone, so used Orwell as a surrogate for persuasive personal argument, to come to pretty much the same conclusion I would’ve reached anyway; regardless of definitions.


      @ Robert Sutherland

      Yeah, nice party, shame about the name.

    193. Juteman says:

      You say that 7% of Scottish folk are ‘foreign’ born. I’ve no idea how many are from Wales and the north of Ireland. English born folk make up 9%.
      As I said earlier, research showed that the majority of Scots born folk voted Yes in the referendum. If we had went the Balkan/British ethnic route and banned that 16% from voting, as England did for the EU referendum, Scotland would now be an independent country.
      That upsets me, but i’m also quite proud of this ancient wee country for choosing the right way.
      We will be free, and you will always be welcome.

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