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The Too Wee Club #2

Posted on July 30, 2017 by

A series inspired by a Unionist blog insisting that “On a practical level, I do not believe for one moment that Scotland could thrive alone”and which led to our thinking about some of the world’s other independent nations.

NO. 2 – ICELAND

Above is a picture of the Nordic island of Iceland, shown adjacent to and at the same scale as Scotland (with Shetland moved down a couple of hundred miles for tidiness. Below are the actual relative locations).

Iceland is of course one of the nations most badly hit by the financial crash of 2007 and 2008, which led to it being gleefully and sneeringly dubbed part of the “Arc Of Insolvency” by the No campaign. But how’s it doing now?

(All stats from link above unless linked separately.)

AREA: 39,682 square miles
(Scotland: 30,090 square miles)

POPULATION: 332,529
(Scotland: 5.4 million)

LARGEST CITY: Reykjavik, pop. 123,246
(Scotland: Glasgow, pop. 603,000)

GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT (nominal): $21bn
(Scotland: $245bn)

GDP PER CAPITA: $63,000
(Scotland: $45,904)

GDP PER CAPITA (PPP measure): $50,500
(UK: $42,514)

GINI INEQUALITY RATING /100 (higher = more inequality): 23.6
(UK: 32.4)

(Wikipedia notes: “Egalitarianism is highly valued among the people of Iceland, with income inequality being among the lowest in the world. The constitution explicitly prohibits the enactment of noble privileges, titles, and ranks. Everyone is addressed by their first name. As in other Nordic countries, equality between the sexes is very high; Iceland is consistently ranked among the top three countries in the world for women to live in.”)

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE: 2.6%
(UK: 4.5%)

W.H.O. PUBLIC HEALTHCARE QUALITY RANKING: 15th
(UK: 18th)

AVERAGE LIFE EXPECTANCY AT BIRTH: 82.9
(UK: 80.7, Scotland 79.1)

UNIVERSITY EDUCATION: free
(Scotland: free. UK: £9,000 per annum)

INCOME TAX RATES (standard/higher/max): 37%/40%/46%
(Scotland: 20%/40%/45%)

ANNUAL MURDER RATE PER 100,000 OF POPULATION: 0.91
(UK: 0.92)

SIGNIFICANT NATURAL RESOURCES: fishing, geothermal energy
(Scotland: oil, whisky, renewables, fresh water, financial services, tourism)

Iceland has been a fully independent state for 73 years, and a member of NATO since its inception in 1949. It has the world’s highest literacy rate, at 99.9%, and with English and Danish compulsory school subjects the population is highly multilingual.

Iceland maintains free public education at all levels and free high-quality healthcare at the point of delivery. It has almost no armed forces of any kind, despite occupying a hugely strategic position in the middle of the GIUK Gap.

Unionists believe these achievements to be completely beyond the ability of the people of Scotland. Readers can make their own judgements.

.

More members of the Too Wee Club coming soon. Previous entries below:

1. Malta

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    1. 30 07 17 12:56

      The Too Wee Club #2 | speymouth

    203 to “The Too Wee Club #2”

    1. abbeyguy says:

      Too wee too poor too stupid.

      Yoon thinking.

    2. Ian McCubbin says:

      I welcime this set of comparisons and am reading Leskey Riddochs book smorgsbord at present which takes the comparison further.
      Its most of unionists who are not like nordic races.
      Scotland can be independent and like Iceland, Norway, Finland Denmark and Sweden.

    3. joannie says:

      They can also beat England at the football.

    4. Neil Cook says:

      But, But, But we’re better together as we’re too wee small and stupid. Also we’re going to have a red white & blue Brexit or white red & blue or blue , red & white brexit! Anyways it’s going to be good so suck it up as yoons say.
      Beam me up Scottie is my hope!

    5. TYRAN says:

      Why would anyone want a union with such uniquely incapable people? Answers on a postcard.

    6. heedtracker says:

      Iceland is stunning, shocking even, to visit. How do they do it? Well they’re not ruled by thieving tories, red or blue. Scotland is however.

    7. Dr Jim says:

      This story completely misses the point, what the Unionists mean is Iceland is inferior to Inglind and can’t possibly be otherwise because of one simple fact fact fact

      They’re foreign, they don’t speak the right kind of Inglish and they couldn’t beat Germany or Russia in a fight, and that’s the most important thing in the Yooniverse

      Equality? who cares about that

    8. Ken500 says:

      Westminster mismanagement holds Scotland back and loses Scotland £Billions of revenues. They do it deliberately. Westminster unionists have been mismanaging the UK/world economy for years. Since 1928 and before. Corruption and lies.

    9. Bob nugent says:

      THEY (unionists) WILL NEVER AGREE WITH ANYTHING THAT GIVES A COMMON SENSE
      EXPLANATION TO SCOTLAND BECOMING A FREE INDEPENDENT TRADING COMPANY
      IT WOULD TOTALLY BURST THE “UNITED KINGDOM” BUBBLE

    10. Pentland Firth says:

      I’ve met many Icelanders, but none have ever expressed any interest in going back to being governed by Denmark. They regard Scottish unionism as bizarre, and find it impossible to understand why any Scots would want to outsource the government of their country to England (which, in effect, is what Scottish unionism is really about).

      Their relationship with Denmark is complex. They drink Danish beer and smoke Danish fags, and enjoy visiting Denmark, but resent the tendency of Danes to regard them as “country bumpkins”.

    11. K1 says:

      Two words ‘cash cow’ *

      *no cows came to harm in the making of this comment.

      ——————————
      O/T

      I’m awaiting queen’s bohemian rhapsody parody of scaramouche with bated breath, someone somewhere has to do it, eh? That guy’s mafioso bubble needs bursting, big time.

    12. Ottomanboi says:

      If size matters that much, from an Indian or Chinese perspective England doesn’t look ‘viable’.

    13. Bob Keltie says:

      What was The Too Wee Club #1? Must have missed that..or are we referring to Scotland?

    14. msean says:

      This is a great comparison,sure there will be more to come.

    15. Hamish100 says:

      The English establishment need Scotland. They know it and so do the Anglo scotbrit Tories.

      We are their cash cow in energy, technology, education and research, agriculture, fishing ( it’s not Scotland’s fish according to Scotland’s fishing leader), tourism – it’s people

      We will do well as an independent nation realising our self determination.

      I’ve decided not to use Indy 2 any more. Doesn’t mean anything.

      Independence, self reliance, democratic control , self – determination.

      Let’s say what we mean and don’t demean by shorthand terms.

    16. galamcennalath says:

      I’m saying this rather tongue in cheek …

      Perhaps, as an alternative to Indy, Scotland could consider merging with one of our successful neighbours as opposed to the current failed union. Iceland? Norway? Denmark?

    17. yesindyref2 says:

      One of the advantages of being a small but internationally involved country, like Iceland, like Malta, is the totally disproportionate to population, holding of international conferences and indeed, presidentship of the likes of the EU.

      A statistic would be useful, but I’d guess the likes of Iceland gets 100 times the attention it deserves relative to its population. On that basis, perhaps Scotland would get 10 times. And all these conferecences bring higher paid jobs, and boosts to the economy including business and tourism.

    18. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I had Icelanders coming for several years to the hotel I had some years ago.

      When I asked them why they came to Scotland I got a variety of responses.

      They liked the trees.

      They didn’t get fish for breakfast.

      The could get a triple voddy at the bar for the cost of a single one in Iceland

      They came to poor countries because everything was cheaper.

    19. Graeme J McAllan says:

      Stu, this proves once more that we would THRIVE and be the envy of the World – now we just need to convince the Voters 🙁

    20. Dr Jim says:

      @galamcennalath

      You mean like a European Union kind of a thingy, now that’s an idea that could catch on
      Damn! Inglind’ll put the mockers on it coz they’re foreign as well without big lots of sojers to fight folk with

    21. yesindyref2 says:

      OT for this topic
      I feel that some people are put off posting by being told, for instance, that mentioning Flower of Scotland is (insert sweary words of choice). In a thread about another song which some people might think is directly or indirectly comparable, as it also refers to a history of conflict.

      Poetry too can be classed as on-topic for a thread about songs (or a song), similarly about historical conflict – or battles.

      My suggestion is that the esteemed (apart from by an opinion article on CS and some others), owner of this blog post here as currently with his own moniker on matters of blog control, but under another moniker on something which is purely opinion. A Moniker such as “TheRev” or similar.

      That way people can respond if they like, without fear of being banned from the blog – or taking the huff as I did. And some might welcome The Rev’s viewpoint below the line as well as above it.

    22. gordoz says:

      As a proudy britscot I am not programmed to consider such fings Mr WoS.

      Ah fought Iceland was a food store next tae Lidle n ‘at, whit is this Yesser pish yer pumpin noo? 🙂

    23. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill –

      Aye they’re mad for the voddy alright.

      Used to work in a big Glasgow hotel, did a few months in the main bar, usually solo. Parties of Icelanders would arrive. The women went shopping, the guys (for the most part) stayed in the bar and necked trebles, couldn’t believe it was so ‘cheap’, and it was NOT cheap. Best tips I ever got anywhere.

    24. stewartb says:

      This emerging series on Wings, “The Too Wee Club”, is a great idea: its ongoing impact will be especially great if the content can on an ongoing basis be juxtaposed and contrasted with the cringe of the Scotland in Union’s output. I feel confident that the latter will continue to be a rich source of ‘stories’ of the Too Wee/Too Poor cringeworthy kind.

      If you have a few more minutes to devote to reading about Iceland, can I recommend this from the website of the Permanent Mission of Iceland to the United Nations http://www.iceland.is/iceland-abroad/un/nyc/statements-and-news/the-challenges-and-opportunities-of-small-states–economic-development-climate-change-and-new-security-issues/6761/ ).

      These are just a few extracts:

      “In Europe, Africa, Asia, the South Pacific, the Caribbean and the Middle East small states form a significant part of the political and economic mosaic and they are increasingly playing significant roles within global institutions, the UN agencies, the IMF and the World Bank. Through their elections to the United Nations’ Security Council they have become, in the company of the major powers, crucial players when issues of war and peace are decided. The United Nations is not, as it was when Iceland joined in 1946, a club of the selected few, but a vibrant institution of 192 equal members.”

      “Iceland’s experience pays fine testimony to the potential that all small nations have for taking advantage of economic opportunities, especially if they are also fortunate enough to manage their own affairs with steadfastness, discipline and vision, and can establish a balanced and stable economy.”

      And on defence:

      “The defense against … new security issues cannot be taken by establishing larger armies, buying more powerful weapons, tanks or advanced conventional defense-systems. The defense is to be found in expanding science and knowledge, innovation and creativity, taking precautionary action in time. Combining the goals of energy security and combating climate change by accelerating the production of clean energy is one thing my country has excelled in and is willing to share with other nations.”

      “Small states are also blessed with a quality which is becoming increasingly important: They are a threat to no one. There is no risk involved in engaging in widespread cooperation with small states. They have no hidden agenda and can not deploy military might, financial power or strong political pressure to achieve their aims. They act straightforwardly. There are no problems involved in being their friend.”

      But it seems for Ms Fiona Annesley, writing for Scotland in Union, we could never be like Iceland – we should not even aspire to be like Iceland – not least because, don’t forget, we in Scotland benefit from “freebies” (yes, her words).

      When you place the “freebies” on the scales to measure them and her other perceived ‘benefits’ of union against what it means to have the power of self-determination; national self-respect and self confidence; a commitment to internationalism and an ability to exert your own country’s influence; a commitment to peaceful coexistence; a commitment to environmental sustainability; plus having the levers to strive for relative prosperity – i.e. to be like Iceland – Ms Annesley’s Scotland offers up poor fare for present and future generations in Scotland.

    25. Stuart McTavish says:

      Interesting you should choose Malta and Iceland as the first 2 members of the too wee club since the historic/post union shortcut between the two, the canal du midi, runs not far from my place of exile and a brief gander at the local heraldry suggests Scottish influence, or (equally likely) vice versa.

      https://wikimonde.com/article/Armorial_des_communes_du_Gers

      More to the point will perhaps be the too stupid series when the failure of our illustrious political nobility to trumpet the Empires gain (and defacto Scots loss) from the contributions made by the likes of Millright and Crinan Canal builder John Rennie, whose London Bridge design was built by his (English 🙁 ) son only to be pulled down and rebuilt in Senator McCain county by some dolt going by the name McCulloch 🙂

      http://www.roadtripamerica.com/places/havasu.htmch

    26. Sunniva says:

      I’ve had this argument with Unionists often and believe you me, I know my facts being half Scandinavian and can reel them out but they remain unmoved. This proves to me that the too wee, too, poor argument is a straw man. Either they really believe we are too stupid or, as I believe, they would not support independence for Scotland under any circumstances however positive the outlook. This is because they are not Scots but Brits. Britain is their country. But getting them to admit that is hard work as they refuse to acknowledge the reality.

    27. Macart says:

      No, there is absolutely no technical or measurable reason on this earth that Scotland could not flourish as an independent nation state.

      I’ve lost count of the times commenters have posted text or links on Scotland’s wealth, our abundance of resources and our unique advantages.

      Equally, I’ve never seen a unionist argument to the contrary that EVER stacked up against the available evidence and precedent concerning small nations.

      Near as I can tell, their only argument on Scotland’s apparently singular inability to flourish as an independent state is based on fear and shame. A fear and a shame we should all (for some yet unknown reason), carry.

      ‘Proud Scot but’ is the running joke, but that’s not true is it? It’s not really a joke. Their argument and proclamations on the abilities of Scotland’s population display anything but pride.

      Honestly, I don’t know. I cannot understand why, given all the advantages at our disposal, anyone would place the governance of their country, their rights and their freedoms, in the hands of another and then seek to defend this decision by denigrating the abilities of their own population.

      Perhaps rather than constantly telling people what their limitations are or should be, they could explain sometime just why we shouldn’t aspire to better ourselves and our lot? Whilst they’re at it, they could mibbies also explain why we should fear to try and why we should be ashamed to be who we are?

    28. Ken500 says:

      Glasgow International Conference business best worldwide. Hydro one of the most successful venues in the world. Edinburgh etc one of the best tourist destination in the world. International tourist industry. International Oil, tourist, food industry. Increasing Cruise industry. Orkney Moray coast etc. Increasing direct flights.

    29. Jock McDonnell says:

      O/T
      Been reading Iain Banks. He calls Edinburgh The Dormant Capital.
      Worth repeating, often. Win Edinburgh and we win.

    30. velofello says:

      @ Sunniva: “they would not support independence for Scotland under any circumstance….because they are not Scots but Brits..”

      Absolutely.

    31. sassenach says:

      Macart @ 1-11pm

      Spot on, absolutely agree.

      I’m sick of trying to ask some Scots why they prefer to be ruled by another country – do they have no shame? Scotland the Brave? – don’t make me laugh!

      However, needs must, so the job of trying to convert must continue.

    32. T.roz says:

      I described this Iceland type of argument to a English man who was up here on holiday and his response was ” but scotland does not have the skills” . That’s not a big problem because this dude ain’t got a vote, but how can anyone living in scotland not want independence? Change! people don’t like change. So articles like this show how change can be positive and normal.

    33. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “What was The Too Wee Club #1?”

      OMG it’s LINKED RIGHT THERE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ARTICLE. And four posts down in the “Recent Posts” sidebar. Or if you just scroll halfway down the front page.

    34. galamcennalath says:

      Sunniva says:

      … they would not support independence for Scotland under any circumstances however positive the outlook. This is because they are not Scots but Brits. Britain is their country.

      Indeed. Surveys imply about 30% are ‘British till death’ types.

      However …. IMO … they are often also well off, self centred, greedy types. I reckon some of them can still be persuaded that iScotland is a financially safer bet than a down-the-pan BrexitUK. Their nationalism may possibly be trumped by ‘a better deal’.

      So I am not totally convinced that all of those folks will ignore a comparatively more positive outlook.

      IndyRef1 and independence was the gamble. IndyRef2 and staying UKOK could be the greater gamble.

      I am the eternal optimist 🙂

    35. gus1940 says:

      Now that the GE is safely out of the way and the ‘Say No To Indyref2’ onslaught has served its purpose it would seem that our colonialist masters have decided that the new battle front should be to give the impression that The SNP is a busted flush and is headed down the pan wit the result that we are being deluged with ‘Opinion Polls’ speeches from politicians, TV interviews and articles in the colonialist dead tree press all on the theme that The SNP’s Glory Days are over and that form now on it is downhill all the way for the party. The orders have gone out from WM and the Colonialist fan club jumps to attention in their usual Pavlovian way.

      It is now becoming more and more obvious that the SNP’s loss of seats at The GE was primarily due to the fact that 500,000 didn’t bother to vote (Myself I still voted but this time didn’t bother to put a poster in my window) helped by the relentless ‘No to Indyref2’ deluge, all TV debates being diverted to devolved issues unconnected with a GE and Corbyn’s left wing manifesto.

      The continuing laughable attempts to deify the Ruthsfuhrer manage to provide us with a few chuckles.

    36. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Anyone having problems reading the likes of the Herald even with Adblock Plus installed, I got a suggestion from a poster to try Ublock Origin 1.13.8 as a plugin. Seems to work so far, instant load up of page and gives me control back, rather than having to wait 10 minutes for whatever their script-kiddies are up to.

      Disclaimer – only just installed (alongside ABP) and so no idea how well it allows normal access.

      It’s nice to share 🙂

    37. gus1940 says:

      It is high time somebody took a scythe to the overcrowded long grass.

      Chilcott, Leveson2, The Panama Papers et al seem to have been safely disappeared by our colonial masters.

    38. heedtracker says:

      Some unionists say we can’t end the union because we’re the UK family, the English and us. This is certainly true for perhaps a majority of Scots, that their family is to some extent English.

      If you’re from Aberdeen, a lot of English have moved here for the oil jobs, which transformed their lives completely and they intermarried with the natives.

      But Scots also have family across the planet, from Canada to New Zealand, so how come none of these countries, of our family, insist, nae demand, they run Scotland for us?

    39. Swiss Perspective says:

      These achievements are indeed beyond the people of Scotland as long as they remain tethered to a parliament in another country that couldn’t care less – or believe that they couldn’t do better on their own.

    40. Andy-B says:

      Yeah, I like you highlighting the sheer insanity of the unionist mantra that Scotland is too wee too poor etc.

      Here’s ten wee independent countries doing okay.

      http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-10-smallest-countries-in-the-world.html

    41. gus1940 says:

      Only a few months ago during the battle for Aleppo our politicians and their media fan club were hysterically shouting from the rooftops that the Russian and Syrian Governments should be charged with War Crimes.

      Now that the battle for Mosul is more or less over it has become apparent that tens of thousands of innocent civilians have been killed by the bombing by the coalition of Iraqui, US, UK and other Nations but primarily by the bombing crazy yanks.

      This fact has been reported in the media as quietly as possible but have there been any calls for War Crimes Charges – what do you think – like hell there have been.

      As usual Hypocrisy Rules.

    42. yesindyref2 says:

      @Ken500
      Absolutely, conference business is very successful already, but no reason it can’t double even.

      Same as tourism, the benefits of Indy would (definitely in my opinion) see that double for the first 3 or 4 years, taking the sector from nearly 10% to almost 20% until other sectors had a chance to catch up. Covering any ups and down of the economy while settling in, more than covering, giving the overall figures a boost rather than “Scotland will be fsked” from the detractors – those detractors including some rather silly pro-indy “economists”.

      No, from Day 1 of Independence, Scotland’s overall economy will be on a ballistic upcurve, as Edinburgh is added to the country capital bucket list (it’s only partially on at the moment). Stamp collectors, coin and note collectors for our new currency, investors who need a piece of the action of all 196 countries, country market branches plus HQs, embassies, the list is endless for the short-term boost to counter any short-term losses.

      It used to make me very angry, now I just shrug my shoulders at the blind stupidity of those who can’t see what’s in fromt of their faeces coming from their mouths.

    43. Street Andrew says:

      It’s not a fair comparison – Iceland to Scotland.

      They’ve got that magic yoghurt.

    44. Graeme says:

      Sunniva says:
      30 July, 2017 at 1:07 pm

      But getting them to admit that is hard work as they refuse to acknowledge the reality.

      That’s because they’re ashamed of themselves, They know the reality,it’s not stupidity, half a nations population cannot be that stupid not to see it.

      It’s that inbred sense of Britishness, it’s everything that’s familiar to them, it’s got them through life so far without anything catastrophic happening to them, They are devoid of any ambition, hope, or any real sense of self worth,

      They know it but for all too many it’s just far easier to ignore injustice & abuse than it is to face up to it and do something about it.It’s the Stockholm Syndrome on a national scale and most of them are lost to us.

      But we will win our independence and I believe it is the younger generation who will win it for us

      Graeme

    45. galamcennalath says:

      Totally OT, but reference to the worldwide success of on retail chain from a small Northern European country …

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVUdbNjuNqw

      …. I see Oor Hamish has taken on some acting work to keep him going when politics is a bit slow 🙂

    46. jfngw says:

      I see we now have found our feminist David Torrance equivalent. Self appointed to proclaim the virtues of the all independence supporters.

      What Dugdale was attempting was/is the castration of the WoS site, and linking SNP politicians to it. The inference is that it is written by a bigot and as SNP politicians followed it and the twitter feed they are also bigots unless they disassociate themselves from it.

      This case needed to be brought to court since it is an attempt by a unionist politician to effectively discredit an indy site they don’t approve of. If the assertion wasn’t challenged they could then continue to infer its truth.

      You can also understand Dugdale’s hatred of WoS as he often exposes and SLab hypocrisy, which are often just outright lies.

    47. Dr Jim says:

      Scotch Whisky is NOT a Scottish export I repeat NOT a Scottish export, it’s a UK export we’re told now and anybody with one working brain cell should know what that means when London says UK

      They mean Inglind

      And what does Inglind do with anything valuable

      They flog it!

    48. Sarah says:

      O/T iScot has over £24,000. Well done everybody.

    49. colin alexander says:

      @Rock

      Here’s one just for you:

      Iceland has it’s own legal system and jailed their crooked bankers.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stefan-simanowitz/iceland-has-jailed-29-bankers_b_8908536.html

      Scotland has it’s own legal system. The crooked bankers are richer than ever. Not one got prosecuted by the Scottish Legal system. The SNP Scottish Govt never asked for any to be prosecuted.

      It’s the people on frozen pay and benefit cuts that got fined for the crimes.

      Don’t anyone kid me the SNP Scot Govt are any different from the Tories or Labour when it comes to being in bed with the corrupt financial system.

      huffingtonpost.com/stefan-simanowitz/iceland-has-jailed-29-bankers_b_8908536.html

      It’s the UK Govt that’s in charge, I’ll get told. Is financial dishonesty no a crime in Scots Law too? Or only when it’s poorer people that do it?

      Under the SNP Scots Govt, greed is good. Just ask Joan McAlpine with her £20,000 salary from the Daily Record. Just ask Wheatley Group boss, Martin Armstrong on his £ 1/4 million. Just ask the quangos bosses paid by the Scottish Govt.

      pressreader.com/uk/the-scottish-mail-on-sunday/20150208/282192239409336

    50. Lenny Hartley says:

      Had the good fortune to spend a couple of nights in Iceland enroute to the states two years ago.
      £50 a night for huge room in B+B which is cheaper than on Arran. Food in Supermarkets not that much more than here and the B+B room had a kitchen! Drink was very expensive probably on par with Norway and Sweden. (Not been to those countries for a few years) Standard of living appeared far higher than here, my Landlord took me for a tour down the south and in one Small Town he said he would like to go and see his brother as he had not seen him for months, His brothers living room was bigger than my entire house. All the houses in the estate were similar sizes, can’t remember exactly what the guy did but it was not a high flyer type job, we spoke for some length about Scots Indy and they could not get there head around anybody that voted No, lovely people and country , well worth a visit and only 90 minutes flying time from the Central belt.

    51. colin alexander says:

      Lena Wilson gets a mention in pressreader.com/uk/the-scottish-mail-on-sunday/20150208/282192239409336

      It says she was on £210,000 a year. Not including her side earner.

      She has recently resigned following her trip to NY with Nicola Sturgeon:

      http://archive.is/chwm5

    52. heedtracker says:

      Under the SNP Scots Govt, greed is good. Just ask Joan McAlpine with her £20,000 salary from the Daily Record. Just ask Wheatley Group boss, Martin Armstrong on his £ 1/4 million. Just ask the quangos bosses paid by the Scottish Govt.”

      At last, the troll bears his teeth. Took yous a wee whily though.

    53. yesindyref2 says:

      @Colin Alexander: “Scotland has it’s own legal system. The crooked bankers are richer than ever. Not one got prosecuted by the Scottish Legal system. The SNP Scottish Govt never asked for any to be prosecuted.

      Look Rock’s bosom buddy, you know fine that there is nothing in Scotland’s legal system that can prosecute London-based bankers, and there is no remit for the Scottish Government to ask Westminster to prosecute London-based bankers either.

      You started on a good note to try to achieve some sort of genuine street creds – a potential alternative to Sovereignty with the idea the Scottish Parliament could achieve full Sovereignty but within the UK – effectively a confederal arrangement and only a voluntary step away from Independence itself, a gradualists’s dream.

      But frankly your postings have gone downhill rapidly since then.

    54. Robert Louis says:

      Regarding the article above, I am still desperately waiting for the ‘positive case for the union’. We were promised we would be told the ‘positive case for the union’ in 2014, and here we are, in 2017, still waiting.

      So, any unionists out there, can you let me know, just what exactly IS the ‘positive case for the union’.

      I’ll not hold my breath.

    55. What did the person who said about the bankers or the SNP not prosecuting them and Joan Macalpine writing for the record etc., what part was not true ?and then to be called a troll for stating facts

    56. Dan Huil says:

      It’s England that can’t afford to be independent.

    57. colin alexander says:

      @Heedtracker

      I am comparing why Iceland is successful and Scotland is a mess in comparison.

      ‘Cos the Icelanders won’t accept crookery like the way Scotland’s Govt does – and the UK Govt does – as long as it’s wealthy friends of theirs doing the crookery.

      Under the SNP there is HUGE disparity between the top paid and the lowest paid and those with no pay at all, no money at all and left to beg food at food banks.

      The SNP don’t control the DWP, but they do control the wages for the fat cats.

      Or rather they turn a blind eye to the uncontrolled greed of the fat cats on mega salaries, cos guess where they’ll be heading for jobs after they get voted out.

      It’s not rocket science. Jobs for the boys. Kick those Labour ex-politicians off the quangos and drink deep of the fat cat’s cream.

      At least Joan McAlpine makes no pretences about it. Credit for being open about being out for the dosh.

    58. heedtracker says:

      Blair Paterson says:
      30 July, 2017 at 3:45 pm
      What did the person who said about the bankers or the SNP not prosecuting them and Joan Macalpine writing for the record etc., what part was not true ?and then to be called a troll for stating facts

      Yes, the greatest bank crash/fraud in human history, for which ALL of the already filthy rich City banksters then got several hundred billion quid vomited over them, by the great socialist workers of Labour party, like chancellors Gordon Brown and Flipper Darling, who were meant to be regulating same City spivs for over a decade at least, was all the fault of an SNP MSP who gets £20k a year for a column in the DR.

      For shame SNP, for shame.

    59. heedtracker says:

      colin alexander says:
      30 July, 2017 at 3:51 pm
      @Heedtracker

      I am comparing why Iceland is successful and Scotland is a mess in comparison.

      No, youre a troll Colin. That’s fine though. That’s what you’re here for, smear the SNP.

      How yoon culture can hold SNP Scots gov responsible for the City crash 2008? well that’s yoon culture for you.

    60. Morag says:

      I just got back from spending ten days in Iceland. I rode across the interior of the island from north to south. I had a fantastic time.

      I would KILL to have been born Icelandic.

    61. Proud Cybernat says:

      But the UJ’s a lovely flag and we fought in the war together…

    62. Dan Huil says:

      Iceland has bounced back since 2008 because, unlike Scotland, it’s in charge of its own economy.

    63. Richard Duncan says:

      Macart 1.11pm

      You managed to put everything i feel about yoons into that . Not for the first time either Sam. ( Doffs cap 🙂

      Huge respect to you and relief that i am not alone in thinking half my country are cowards with no imagination or hope .

      Whae’s like us indeed 🙁

    64. Free Scotland says:

      What do Iceland, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Malta all have in common?

      They are run by governments which refuse to waste taxpayers’ money on nukes.

    65. heedtracker says:

      I would KILL to have been born Icelandic.

      Try Norway, work down Norway to Denmark, 33 hour a work week, happiest country in the world. Sweden’s nae bad either.

    66. colin Alexander says:

      @Yesindyref2 says:

      “you know fine that there is nothing in Scotland’s legal system that can prosecute London-based bankers”.

      The Telegraph says:

      “Although the alleged wrongdoing is said to have happened on trading floors in the City of London, legal experts have argued that prosecutions could be brought in Scotland as the effect felt by households and businesses north of the Border.”

      Source: telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9373838/Crown-Office-announces-criminal-inquiry-into-Scotlands-banks.html

    67. colin Alexander says:

      @Yesindyref2

      I have no issue with your criticisms of my comments. We can agree to differ on some issues.

      In fact, I must admit you deserve credit: not only did you consider and understand my case for sovereignty within the UK, but you also summarise it much better than I do:

      “a potential alternative to Sovereignty with the idea the Scottish Parliament could achieve full Sovereignty but within the UK – effectively a confederal arrangement and only a voluntary step away from Independence itself, a gradualists’s dream.”

      To that, I would add, that if supported by the majority in Scotland, but prevented or even opposed by WM, it would also very likely increase support for full indy without any sort of confederal Union whatsoever.

    68. yesindyref2 says:

      @colin Alexander
      The DT? The Daily Telegraph? The right-wing SNP and Independence hating Daily Telegraph? And you use that as your revered source of information? The same paper that said that a hulking great smoking Russian carrier was found accidentally by a fishing boat after sheltering in a storm during a well-known about Russian navy exercise not far away, and the MOD only found out about it from comments on the internet?

      That Telegraph? That reliable source?

      Quote the Law involved, and who controls it and any amendment to it like the City-loving UK Government (any party), and you might be taken a little more seriously.

      Next it’ll be the Daily Express as a reliable source on the EU.

      Sigh. Try reading The National, it’s a much better paper.

    69. Dan Huil says:

      Love the way “too wee” Ireland goes about its business.

      Ireland’s taoiseach said: “What we’re not going to do is to design a border for the Brexiteers because they’re the ones who want a border. It’s up to them to say what it is, say how it would work and first of all convince their own people, their own voters that this is actually a good idea. As far as this government is concerned there shouldn’t be an economic border. We don’t want one.”

    70. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Just saw this.
      A site called Independence Daily enjoining all indy supports to pivot to Labour. Anybody any idea who or what this is?

    71. abbeyguy says:

      Dave McEwan Hill 5.06pm

      “A site called Independence Daily…”

      You got a link for that Dave?

    72. colin Alexander says:

      @heedtracker

      You need to pay for a GP appointment in Iceland. You need to pay for prescriptions.

      Patients need to pay 15% of cost of an ambulance call-out.

      Disability benefit rate is based on years of residence in Iceland.

      Icelandic Govt health insurance covers nationals for a year outside Iceland. The Scottish NHS ends health cover after three months outside UK.

      “Iceland is the third least likely country to be murdered in”. If you never go to Iceland you have zero chance of dying there at all haha.

      “According to the Iceland Bureau of Statistics, foreign citizens in Iceland were 30.300 at the beginning of this year” out of a population of 334,000 so approximately 9% are foreign citizens.

      Iceland is part part of the EEA so is signed up to the Single Market which requires the freedom of movement of labour (and family members).

    73. Rock says:

      Rock (18th June 2015 – Tossing your chips),

      “Iceland, a decent, democratic country which jailed the criminal bankers and got its economy back up again without as much austerity as here, where the national debt has actually increased.

      Iceland, the country that Gordon Brown used anti terrorist laws against to protect his criminal bankers.

      Alex Salmond was ridiculed during the referendum campaign for having said a long time ago that Iceland was one of the countries an independent Scotland could aspire to be like.

      But as always, he was right. If we had let the banks go bust and jailed our criminal bankers, we plebs wouldn’t have suffered.

      So there is one country who publicly supported our cause.

      Thank you Iceland.”

      Truth Always.

    74. yesindyref2 says:

      So, if this is to be a series, who is next? My bet is Luxembourg.

      Another country for the ignorant to try to trash, using “fact”sheets hastily “researched” by the “Trash Wings – Operation Naughty Knaves” or TWONKs for short

    75. colin Alexander says:

      “However, no equivalent investigation has been undertaken by Police in Scotland, prompting concerns Scottish prosecutors at the Crown Office are trying to avoid any major investigation into a well known culture of corruption in Scotland’s banking & financial sector.”

      http://scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/police-scotland-asked-to-investigate.html

    76. Vestas says:

      I have a soft spot for Iceland, partly because my (real) name is on a monument in Reykjavík (yes really – https://goo.gl/images/SqrvFA).

      Go far enough north (or south) of the equator and people aren’t the same IMHO. Half of Reykjavik is on pills to sleep in summer & vast quantities of booze to cope with the dark in winter.

      I love the Icelandic mindset – but then again when you’re basically living on a series of volcanoes in the middle of the Atlantic (at the top of the world) scare stories probably don’t cut much ice 🙂

      Good people.

    77. colin Alexander says:

      @Yesindyref2

      Iceland is not mentioned, but Luxembourg is mentioned in this article:

      “Oxfam: Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands among worst tax havens” Jersey and Isle of Man also came high in the rankings.

      Naw, not from the Telegraph: http://www.politico.eu/article/oxfam-luxembourg-ireland-netherlands-among-worst-tax-havens/

    78. yesindyref2 says:

      Sounds great Colin, except firstly the report is from 2013, and the Thames Police were investigating ONE BRANCH about corruption etc originating in that one branch. Hardly supports whatever mushroom it is you’re trying to push now. Interesting that a recent tweet on that site says this:

      “Scots Judicial Investigator told to water down annual reports by @Scotgov, #foi exceptions used to conceal false accusations ”

      Seems like a potential false allegation itself, to me. There have been many.

      What next, the NHS underfunded, the second most visible tweet on the homepage of that blog you linked to? I wonder what the guy’s persusasion is, vis-a-vis position on Indy and SNP, eh.
      ————————-

      Ah, Luxembourg. It starts already and hasn’t even been featured yet. Not many people know that Luxembourg is a tax haven. So, of course, is Scotland with its SLP system controlled by Westminster. As David Leask uncovered in his series of articles, resulting in SNP calls for changes – at Westminster Colin, not Holyrood. They control company law, not Scotland.

      I’m sorry, there was a “don’t” missing in that statement of mine about Luxembourg..

      I guess I shouldn’t mention any of the following, with their populations below or roughtly the same as Scotland:

      Cyprus 848,300
      Estonia 1,315,900
      Latvia 1,969,000
      Slovenia 2,064,200
      Lithuania 2,888,600
      Croatia 4,190,700
      Ireland 4,658,500
      Slovakia 5,426,300
      Finland 5,487,300
      Denmark 5,707,300

      Apparently in Estonia the slugs will be armed to the teeth and in control of the banks.

      Or summat likeat!

      But hey, do carry on. Haven’t had this much fun since I last removed the old rusting satellite dish from the wall a few minutes ago.

    79. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Stuart McTavish 12.57: thanks for the groovy heraldry, one of my guilty pleasures. Lots of Flemish influence on Scots heraldry too.

      Most Yoons know deep down the TSTPTS refrain is mince but they have spent their lives being tricked into believing it and most of them can’t face this inconvenient truth. To admit it would make them seem pretty daft, so it’s fingers in the ears and Lalalalalalala!

      A certain percentage will never be reached by rational argument. Maybe Brexit economic meltdown might panic a few to vote in their own (and our) best interests.

    80. Ken500 says:

      Aide hires a car. DUP got £3Billion. A trip home on an airforce jet. Cameron spent £100Million on a private jet. Used Air Force jet and army helicopter on a trip to Aberdeen. £10,000 an hour. May has £2Million in perks. LibDems backed up Cameron led to Brexit. Wasting £Billions.

      Darling and BoE Gov were manipulating Libor rate. It influences bank rates worldwide. Total illegal corruption.

    81. K1 says:

      Aye ken, but we awno it’s the SNP’s fault really.

      😉

    82. bjsalba says:

      @Ken500

      FYI

      http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-decides-consign-libor-benchmark-dustbin-banking-history-1632290
      UK decides to consign Libor benchmark to dustbin of banking history
      End of the road for Libor nears as watchdog FCA says global interest rate benchmark has outlived its usefulness

    83. mike d says:

      Graeme 2.08pm. In a nutshell.

    84. galamcennalath says:

      Luxembourg, population 580k, will have more say over the outcome of Brexit than Scotland.

      Must be because they aren’t as wee … nope. Maybe it’s because they aren’t so stupid!

      http://archive.is/I5nll

      (Archived oddly, but text still readable)

    85. Glamaig says:

      Not too poor, wee or stupid Denmark, population 5million, has just knocked Germany out of the football.

    86. yesindyref2 says:

      @galamcennalath

      Ah well, Luxembourg is of course part of “Benelux” which to my suprise still seems to exist:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux

      Many years ago I went to open a bank account in Amsterdam, and when asked address put down blahdiblah, Scotland. She wrote England. Nicely I said “No, not England, Scotland”. She said “Scotland, England. it’s the same country”. “Well”, said I, “what if I wrote you a letter blahdiblah, Amsterdam, Belgium, you’re all Benelux countries, all the same”.

      She crossed out England and put Scotland.

    87. McDuff says:

      It is vitally important that this stuff which is long overdue gets out to the general public. I have long called for comparisons like this to be made and apart from WOS there has been total silence.
      Time the SNP and the National were more vocal and publicised these examples at every opportunity and remind the voters of what we could be.

    88. Phil says:

      @Macart at 1:11PM 30/07/2017
      There is an answer!

      FEAR.

    89. Stuart McTavish says:

      Tinto Chiel @ 6.27
      Cheers. Sometimes I wonder why these things are not taught at school (not mine anyway) then I remember, and kick myself for being so stupid!

    90. Graeme McCormick says:

      And who won the Cod Wars?

    91. Lenny Hartley says:

      The Isle of Man which I visit frequently is no more a tax haven than Ireland or many other countries.
      They are doing nothing illegal and any deposits by non manx nationals are reported to the home countries of the depositors. The City of London is the biggest money laundering operation on the planet. Billions if not trillions of illegal funds pass through its hands every year. The Panama papers showed that tax evasion is rife and the UK had the highest number of people avoiding tax . This illegal money laundering would have been done via the city of London.
      So Colin if you are going to go on about “tax Havens” maybe there are some closer to home than you mention.
      Off course it may be that Brexit is all about the EU not getting oversight of the City’s books.

    92. mike d says:

      The problem with Scotland isn’t the twtpts. It’s the too bigoted,and rUK influx.

    93. Glamaig says:

      Tax evasion – probably one of the motivations for Brexit, maybe even what its all about, along with getting rid of all those pesky standards.

      http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package_en

    94. heedtracker says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      30 July, 2017 at 8:50 pm
      The Isle of Man which I visit frequently is no more a tax haven than Ireland or many other countries.

      Colin’s a unionist troll doing his SNP bad/vote NO thing but Ireland is the EU worst/best tax haven for all big corps.

      Its probably one of the few big economic drivers behind Ireland’s success. They dont have the terrible burden of vast oil and gas reserves.

      Not that its not a nice country. A lot of other EU countries have tried to lower corp tax to Ireland’s level but its not had such a big impact for any of them.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe

      Ireland’s only beaten by Macedonia on the EU corp tax lowest/dodger tables but they’re an extinct race anyway.

    95. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sunniva says: 30 July, 2017 at 1:07 pm:

      ” … This is because they are not Scots but Brits. Britain is their country. But getting them to admit that is hard work as they refuse to acknowledge the reality”.

      Indeed so, Sunniva, but having worked among a workforce that at one time was around at least 10,000. all in the one MOD Dockyard that then included the Department of Works. It was, however, much larger as there were various contractors always working in the Yard.

      Then, of course, as it was also a Naval Base and an RN Artificers training base and included a WRENS establishment and these were all mainly English.

      So I was having these arguments way back in the 1950s.

      Now I’m sure you are right that these people will never change but I’m also 100% certain that they do know the truth. They just refuse, point blank, to accept that:-

      Britain is a group of Islands and not all of them are under Westminster Rule. Nor can that accept the fact that cannot be denied – The Republic of Ireland is not part of The United Kingdom but is part of the British Isles.

      Yet, believe it or not, the majority of them people didn’t know that Man, Jersey and Guernsey were not actually parts of England never mind not parts of the United Kingdom.

      They also could not get their heads round the fact that The United Kingdom was just that – not a country but a bipartite kingdom with two equally sovereign partner kingdoms as its component parts. Not that it was incidental that the United Kingdom contained four countries within two kingdoms.

      However, I get your point that even when none of them could dig up a shred of evidence to prove otherwise and I could prove the facts, and the logic that made sense, they still maintained that Britain was a country and it was also called the UK and England.

      You cannot win arguments with such solid ignorance because it is a case of, “There are none so ignorant as those who choose not to know.

    96. yesindyref2 says:

      @Heed
      Ireland’s success could have something to do with the quality of the workers of course. They’re not all keeping the cow in the parlour these days …

    97. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmOo90KCVNY&feature=youtu.be

      Very interesting from 40mins in Wilton Park.

    98. HandandShrimp says:

      Europe is replete with small countries that are nice places to live. When all is said and done that is what we all want, a place that is nice to live for everyone. I couldn’t give a toss about geopolitics and global reach. There are things to be done here and here is the best place to determine what and how they are done.

      O/T I see Stu has a funny forehead…I only occasionally dip into Twitter…it seems to be particularly silly today. Never mind Trident, the rape clause, Brexit, the erosion of privacy and civil rights, the allegedly Yes Twitterati are enraged by a grumpy Yes supporter taking on sworn anti-independence campaigners. First World problems…what can you do?

    99. Capella says:

      Iceland’s population is about the same as Aberdeen. But they put their corrupt bankers and politicians on trial. A lesson there for Aberdeen, saddled with Labour councillors’ billion pound debt, which has to be repaid if we vote for independence.

      I bet their broadband is also superior to “too poor” Scotland.

    100. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      30 July, 2017 at 9:09 pm
      @Heed
      Ireland’s success could have something to do with the quality of the workers of course. They’re not all keeping the cow in the parlour these days …

      Its still the EU’s corp tax haven. Everyone knows this. EU tolerates it? its the wrong way to look at it but it does look like it does.

      Its depends on how tory Brexit mental you are really.

      Brexit roasters, tory red and blue, raged at us how the EU is sooooo dictatorial, writing our lovely wuvely British laws for us all but the EU does not make any member set corp tax rates.

      Apple of course abused the privilege, of using Ireland as their tax haven, in the world’s richest trading bloc, that we have been brainwashed to hate and rejoice that another country has waltzed out of the EU, dragging Scots out with them, for no actual reason, other than English exceptionalist jibber jabber and blame.

      This kind of commenting style winds up our yoon chums like Colin A, so have at it Co.

    101. colin alexander says:

      I’m not trying to rip into the SNP. It was not the SNP who committed all the financial greed and dishonest practices.

      But I’m pointing out the Scottish political and financial and legal Establishment were awfy quiet about it, including the SNP.

      I’m not a Unionist troll either. The trolls trot out the auld yin about Alex Salmond wishing Mr Fred Goodwin good luck with the RBS takeover of AMN AMBRO. It wasn’t Mr Salmond who did the business like a gambling addict chasing bigger and bigger jackpots with bigger and bigger stakes gambled. It was Fred Goodwin and the RBS bankers.

      But the SNP and the financial and Scottish Legal Establishment left it all to London.

      Aye it was the financial deregulation by Thatcher that allowed this. It was the financial deregulation continued by Blair and Broon that allowed it to happen.

      So apart from the bankers themselves, the main blame lies with Tories and Labour for facilitating it. I clearly point that out.

      But at the heart of Austerity is ordinary people suffering due to the reckless, unfettered greed and corruption of the financial sector in SCOTLAND as well as the rest of the UK.

      Whae’s like us? Scotland’s financial sector just as corrupt as the City of London Tories.

      The SNP have been awfy quiet about that.

      These are the same people that put the boot into the indy campaign. Attacked the SNP.

      If you want to look for people out to undermine the SNP and Indy, look at the corrupt fat cat bankers of Scotland and their UK chums, not me, for pointing out the truth.

      The Sheridans were arrested, interrogated under caution, compared to terrorists. What terror did they cause? Arguing the toss with a newspaper and a fall out with some of their auld cronies.

      Compare that to what the bankers did to Scotland and we are still all paying for it. They brought the country to its knees.

      The bankers in Iceland did the same to Iceland. Iceland dealt with them. Jailed them. Here they still run the show, hands in the tills, ready to rubbish independence again to pay for their UK knighthoods.

      Has the Crown, Procurator Fiscal and Police arrested these bankers and interviewed them under caution or prosecuted and let people see if they are guilty or the case against them is not proven? No. Nothing.

      The SNP moan a lot about Austerity but have little to say on the cause, except to mention Labour and the Tories, but they remain silent on the Scottish bankers and failures of the Scottish Criminal Justice System in protecting Scotland from an ongoing disaster the likes of which we only experienced during two World Wars.

      If it wasnt’ a crime in Scots Law, then it should have been. The crooked bankers should have been jailed, same as a poor person rigging bets and cheating a system would have been jailed.

      But Rock and others are right. In Scotland, SNP or No SNP, the Scottish criminal justice system is rotten to the core. Run by the a rich powerful clique for the benefit of a rich powerful clique. And the financial Establishment are part of that clique, so are the politicians.

      The Sheridans were not part of that clique. They attacked that clique. They spoke about about the two worlds that still exist in Scotland whether it’s Labour or the SNP: The haves and the have nots, so the SCOTTISH Establishment set out to destroy them. Silence them.

      In Iceland they punish their corrupt elite. In Scotland they are protected. It’s only the poor and anti-Establishment people that face jail in Scotland. Iceland jailed their bankers.

      Iceland forced their president to resign following the release of the Panama papers.

      Iceland punishes those who enrich themselves by impoverishing their people. They punish crookery. Scotland rewards and protects them. The UK Govt gives them knighthoods and seats in the Lords.

      Iceland, a different country. For justice, it’s a different world.

    102. heedtracker says:

      Capella says:
      30 July, 2017 at 9:17 pm
      Iceland’s population is about the same as Aberdeen. But they put their corrupt bankers and politicians on trial. A lesson there for Aberdeen, saddled with Labour councillors’ billion pound debt, which has to be repaid if we vote for independence.

      They didnt get many and they didn’t exactly get long sentences. Although Scandinavian penal system is shockingly different from teamGB.

      Is Iceland still on the UKOK terror state list anyway, what Crash Gordo decided on. Gordon really is one crazy dude but he did a lot to destroy Scottish democracy too, but a few years later.

      Page last updated at 11:54 GMT, Friday, 24 October 2008 12:54 UK

      Icelandic anger at UK terror move

      Icelanders protesting against use of terror legislation
      Iceland has a population of 300,000, about 40,000 people have signed

      Thousands of Icelanders are sending a message to Gordon Brown that they are not terrorists after the UK used terror laws to freeze their assets.

    103. yesindyref2 says:

      @Heed
      It may well have started that way, but of course skills build up to match, universities set courses, and even with a higher tax rate chances are most companies would remain. Dublin for instance is set to get a great deal of the London dropout after Brexit, and very early in to attract it – beating Frankfurt and Paris.

      Of course, Edinburgh and Glasgow both have a lot of financial and computing skills, and Scotland still has electronics. If only Scotland was Independent, and in the EU on our own account …

    104. yesindyref2 says:

      “But”

      And you need to get the lingo right, old chap!

    105. abbeyguy says:

      Brilliant Link Ronnie Anderson

    106. Dr Jim says:

      You all know it’s a concern Troll but keep talking to it anyway allowing it to turn Wings over Scotland into it’s own personal Troll show to promote it’s SNP hate agenda

    107. HandandShrimp says:

      Europe is replete with small countries that are nice places to live. When all is said and done that is what we all want, a place that is nice to live for everyone. I couldn’t give a toss about geopolitics and global reach. There are things to be done here and here is the best place to determine what and how they are done.

      O/T I see Stu has a funny forehead…I only occasionally dip into Twitter…it seems to be particularly silly today. Never mind Trident, the clause, Brexit, the erosion of privacy and civil rights, the allegedly Yes Twitterati are enraged by a grumpy Yes supporter taking on sworn anti-independence campaigners. First World problems…what can you do?

    108. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      30 July, 2017 at 9:31 pm
      @Heed

      I’m not saying its wrong, but it is what is, a tax haven nation, an EU member state, that is the EU tax haven for giant corps, that do not want to pay much corp tax.

      England’s tories want it too. Its probably one of the big Brexit thingees creeping out Dublin right the noo.

      And no wonder.

    109. colin alexander says:

      @Heedtracker Said:

      “Colin’s a unionist troll”. Which Union? I’ve been in a trade union, voted to remain in the EU Union.

      I voted YES to independence. I would do so again.

      So, if you are saying I campaign for the UK Union over Scottish independence or voted NO, then you are defaming me.

      Care to swap details, I could sue you for defamation and you can try and prove you’re not defaming me, like Kezia with Stu?

    110. scottieDog says:

      Crucially iceland has a free floating sovereign currency and a govt who understands macroeconomics

    111. pacman says:

      Whether posters on here likes it or not, there are a lot of good reasons against independence. One of them isn’t that Scotland could not thrive alone for the simple reason that it is too ridiculous to even consider on a rational level.

      Scotland, as an independent country , can survive on it’s own. The question, that most people wants to know and forms the basic argument for independence, is whether an independent Scotland can provide the levels of prosperity and level of social provision that it has at the moment. That is an question where a definite answer can be given but to suggest that as a nation we would turn into a failed state and be torn in civil war, famine and other such disasters that we as would not be able to provide even the rudimentary provisions of a nation state is frankly unbelievable.

      I don’t want to seem melodramatic but that argument does seem to be like something out of the dark ages where if you don’t believe in God then there is hell and damnation. This is the 21st century. It is ironic that Scotland, being the birthplace of the modern Enlightenment, is now entering a new dark ages when such silliness is accepted as truth.

      We do really need to challenge these individuals, not their position on independence, but on the thought processes that came to such ridiculous conclusions that an independent Scotland in the 21st century could not exist in any form.

    112. sassenach says:

      Yeah!!

      Colin’s threatening to sue Heedy for defamation – clear the playground “Fight, Fight “.

      Colin, you are SO unbelievable.

    113. scottieDog says:

      Colin
      Think you’ll find these banks were all regulated by london. The uk central bank in london could have rendered any scottish commercial bank insolvent at anytime.

    114. colin alexander says:

      @Blair Paterson @Rock

      Thank you.

      If we want to make Scotland a better, fairer country, we can’t close our eyes to injustice and corruption in our own country.
      We can’t close our eyes to mistakes and failures.

      We can’t blame it ALL on London, when Scots and Scottish bankers were / ARE just as crooked too. It’s still the same people. Still the same banks. Still the same City of London. But the SNP go quiet about it when it’s people and businesses closer to home.

      That’s not anti-SNP. That’s just facts.

      We want an independent Scotland, but we don’t want an independent Scotland where corrupt SCOTTISH bankers have a free reign to make themselves richer by putting us into poverty.

    115. heedtracker says:

      Care to swap details, I could sue you for defamation and you can try and prove you’re not defaming me, like Kezia with Stu?

      So how to show you how voted in the Scottish referendum, in 2014, in court, to a judge Colin?

      Stop being such an a hole will you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being the WoS btl SNP bad critic Colin. But trying to smear the SNP, with the 2008 City crash, is just plain old loony yoon stuff, main stream maybe not, probably at the Telegraph fringe of UKOK lunacy and ofcourse you’re a torygraph fanboy.

      Its made ever more barking mad, considering how Scots really were promised devo-max in 2014, when the yoons thought they were about to lose. And as we all know, it all turned out to be just an another great British fraud on every Scot for a generation to come, maybe.

      Good luck in court you clown.

    116. Ken500 says:

      The SNP do not have the powers to punish any bankers. Otherwise they would. The banking Laws reside with Westminster as anyone knows. They were part of London global institutions and conglomerates. The Financial Laws were changed by Westminster politicians. Thatcher/Reagan, Blair/Brown/Bush/Clinton. They lower the leverage from 25% worldwide to 13% of capital reserves. Not enough reserves. That is why the UK/US banking failed. Thatcher left over 3 million unemployed and interest rates at 15%.

      Brown kept interest rates at 5% believing that would control boom and bust when people were brorrowing too much.

      It had nothing to do with the SNP or the Scottish Parliament. 2000. It was Westminster unionist policies. Scotland is losing £29Billion a year to Westminster unionist mismanagement and lies. Bankers went to jail in every other country than the UK. Icelandic bankers fraudstersresiding in Chelsea were protected by the London financial sector. There were warrants out for their arrest. The money borrowed was from London lending markets. Housing bubble in London and the Midlands. Over inflated property prices which led to the crash when spectulative borrowers could not pay the money back.

    117. gus1940 says:

      Last year we had the commemoration of The Battle Of The Somme with long BBC programs from Westminster Abbey and Thiepval.

      In The Abbey we had an Irish piper playing The Flowers of The Forest that well known SCOTTISH Lament.

      Again at Thiepval we had the same thing.

      During the day the commentators kept banging on about the contribution and sacrifices made by the Irish with nary a mention of the Scots nor the Welsh.

      Tonight I have been watching the broadcast of the procedings at The Menin Gate and what do we get – an Irish Pipe Band playing The Flowers Of The Forest.

      What the hell is going on?

    118. Tinto Chiel says:

      @ Stuart McTavish 8.46: dinna fash, a famous man once said, “Heraldry is a science or it is nothing”. I learnt most of what I know from EK public library when I was a nipper.

      I would recommend a visit to the Heraldry Society of Scotland site, which has some excellent pages, but they are mostly fierce Embra Toryboys, in Heed’s memorable phrase, and stand up for the Loyal Toast perpetually, and twice on Sundays, with their wee flags and decorations.

      Notice it’s not the Scottish Heraldry Society.

    119. sassenach says:

      “colin alexander

      @Blair Paterson @Rock

      Thank you.” @10-10pm

      There we have it – an (un)Holy Trinity??

    120. galamcennalath says:

      F’ing Tories and their f’ing Brexit! We hear that Fox is saying that unregulated free movement of labour after Brexit would “not keep faith” with the EU referendum result.

      So… promises made to win the EURef must be kept. Whatever happened to the promises made to win IndyRef1?

      Only one conclusion. A promise made to the English electorate will be honoured. A promise made to the Scottish electorate has no value whatsoever. Union of equals my erse.

      Feeling a bit irritable this evening!

    121. Tinto Chiel says:

      @gus1940: I think it’s Scottish Erasure, actually.

      They either ignore us or they monster us.

      They’re strangely silent on the Battle of Loos, though (sore point).

      Poppy fascism has come early this year.

      *grinds teeth*

    122. scottieDog says:

      Funny Colin
      The debate on the absudity of QE (quantitatuve easing) was initiated by a certain Ian blackford MP

      http://positivemoney.org/2016/09/24481/

    123. Robert Louis says:

      You guys on here, still all merrily feeding the concern troll. Remarkable.

    124. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s a good laugh.

    125. Ken500 says:

      Scottish Parliament. 2000. SNP minority Gov 2007. Banking crash foundation from 1984? to 2008.

      Tommy Sheridan illegally charged and convicted by unionists. Blair/Murdoch. Convicted in a perjury trial where the main lying witness committed perjury. If the truth had been admitted, the trial would have collapsed, Tommy Sheridan should be admonished and given compensation. He won against NI in the Scottish Courts but was denied the right to take his case to the ECHR by the false Blair ‘London’ Supreme Court. People in Scotland are denied their rights as EU citizens because the ‘London’ court has to agree with the decisions of the Scottish courts or break the terms of the Act of Union/Scottish sovereignty. An anomaly.

      Why does it take 3 to 6 months for the Blair ‘London’ court to give a decision on ‘minimum pricing’. When everyihe else has agreed. It has been all around the houses. The Scottish Parliament passed it over four years ago. Blair the warmonger remains ‘free’ to muck up the economy.

    126. caz m says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      cheers for that Pepper Jack post

    127. heedtracker says:

      Its only the Express loonies but

      http://archive.is/m483V

      Let us rule our England with an English parliament, says FRANK FIELD MP

      ESTABLISHING an English parliament was the inevitable outcome once the Blair government began to give way to Scottish nationalism.

      By FRANK FIELD LABOUR MP FOR BIRKENHEAD
      PUBLISHED: 07:50, Sun, Jul 30, 2017 | UPDATED: 08:22, Sun, Jul 30, 2017

      That should rattle Colin A’s tea cup this lovely Scottish evening.

    128. heedtracker says:

      Graun says,

      Astronomy
      Starwatch
      The Scottish August night sky
      The main Scottish event of the next few weeks is the great American eclipse but plenty of Perseid meteors should be visible despite a bright moon

      Alan Pickup
      @alanpickup
      Sunday 30 July 2017 21.30 BST

      Probably true, rancid old Graun wise.

      Although that crew especially do get all hot n juicy over the world’s greatest art festival, not that far from many Scots, who probably never see it, because they’re working their nuts off, day in day out, for teamGB, and that never ever gets called Scotland’s Edinburgh Festival.

      Creeps:D

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Browsing around as is sometimes my wont when avoiding actually doing stuff, I found this about, of all things, Barnett Bypass. Seems Derek Bateman was way ahead:

      http://newsnet.scot/archive/barnett-bypass-wont-survive-tory-deflection-abuse-uk-politics/

    130. ScottishPsyche says:

      I hope there are many more of these. I lived in Denmark years ago – the idea that they would be too wee to survive on their own would have you laughed out the country. With Germany, they have experience of the big wealthy foreign neighbour across the land border but with their Scandi neighbours across the water, the ties with similar language, money and culture and the rivalries that come with those shared areas. The sense of self-worth was so healthy and that is what we really lack and have to develop. Not the raging ‘Wha’s like us’ but that confidence that comes from knowing you sort out your own problems.

      Absolutely scunnered tonight at CS and Haggerty. It brings back memories of Blair Mcdougall and his lists and Alan Roden and his cyber nats articles. Yep, they are truly the media. What have they achieved? They must realise that LGBT people are as diverse in their opinions as everyone else?

      As for Leask with his inferior person remark – I am aghast that he thinks that is appropriate in any situation.

    131. Capella says:

      @ heedtracker – I think Gordon Brown threatened the Icelanders because they refused to bail out the bank into which many UK local authorities had invested tax payers’ money. Risk assessment for dummies.
      Citizens of Aberdeen could do the same. Willie Young could be the lender of last resort.

    132. Legerwood says:

      Seems to be more than a few comments on here trying to imply that small countries end up as tax havens and mentioning Ireland in that context.

      That is far from being the case. Sure Ireland has a low corporation tax rate but that alone would not attract businesses. It also has a young, highly educated and skilled workforce.

      The Irish economy has moved from one that opened the box and screwed the contents together to an economy that researches and develops what goes into the box – then exports it. It has a huge and thriving pharmaceutical/life sciences sector for example and is one of the world’s largest exporters of pharmaceuticals. https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/biotech-pharma-companies-ireland

      Ireland has had an annual trade surplus – exports more than it imports – every year since 1990.

      More than just a tax haven as indeed are many small countries particularly ones such as Norway, Denmark and Ireland that feature regularly, in some cases almost permanently, in the top 10 of the Forbes list of the best countries in which to do business.

    133. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, this is very catty, miaou, but going backwards a bit, 13 comments for an article about yessers attacking Cat Boyd for voting Corbyn, then 2, 0, 0, 0, 2. But attack Wings and you get 56 comments. hehe.

      “Inferior person”

      Well, at least David Leask has got good judgement.

    134. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, happened again, missed out the word “not”. Ah well, it was deliberate.

    135. Ghillie says:

      What would a comparison like this look like if England were striped of all the assets it takes from Scotland?

      Would England be economicaly viable? How would its other stats stack up?

      Who knows, they might be pleasantly surprised, find that their country is indeed capable of standing on its two feet, and thus feel a little less frantic around the idea of Scotland declaring Independence.

      Sadly though, I kinda hae ma doots.

      I think also giving up elitism, superiority complexes and class distinctions, would long be a major stumbling block for England’s future success. And that is a real shame.

    136. Ghillie says:

      On a happier note!

      How amazing to see this quantifed and Scotland comparing so closely and so well to our brother and sister-sized nations =)

      Have always felt it instinctively and these comparisons are really helpful and heartening!

      Scotland IS amazing !!

      Thank you Rev Stu 🙂

    137. colin alexander says:

      @Heedtracker

      The topic is comparing Iceland to Scotland. Iceland cracked down on the crooks who bankrupted them. Scotland didn’t or couldn’t. Scotland’s Govt and Establishment didn’t want to either.

      I laid the blame clearly at the door of Thatcher, Blair and Broon for facilitating the bankers being able to do all the crookery with their UK de-regulation.

      I blame the bankers for doing the crookery.

      How is that blaming the SNP for the crookery?

      Iceland jailed their bankers. The SNP wanted to keep the £ to keep the Scottish bankers in the corrupt UK system.

      The SNP can’t see past the crooked bankers, even though it’s those bankers that undermined the YES campaign and robbed us all.

      That’s my criticism of the SNP, cos we are comparing Scotland and Iceland and the SNP are the ones in power during all this time in Scotland.

      RBS and HBos are registered in Edinburgh.

      They undermined indy in 2014.

      These are the people that robbed us not only of wealth but of indy too.

      We can’t change the past, but has the SNP or others learned and done anything about it? No.

      The crooks are still in charge and the SNP and others are fine with that.

      People have said the SNP have been too nice. Definitely too nice to certain dodgy men and women in banks. The favour wasn’t returned. The bankers shafted Scotland a second time in 2014.

    138. colin alexander says:

      @Heedtracker your comment is o/t but that’s not for me to moan about.

      Aye England could have it’s own sovereign parliament. Scotland would have it’s own sovereign parliament.

      We could have a UK parliament for the things we want to work together on, such as defence, pensions and trade, if that’s what we decide we want to work together on.

      Those decisions of the UK parliament would need to be ratified or can be blocked by the sovereign parliaments until a compromise is reached acceptable to both parties.

      Either parliament / country can leave the union if it wants to. Anytime it wants to; it’s a voluntary agreement. As all parties are sovereign. Nobody rules over anybody else.

      UK parliament doesn’t rule over anyone, it’s subservient to both.

      It would be a loose Union of sorts but we’d have sovereignty, so would England, but we can work together where it suits both.

      But we’d also be independent in the sense that nobody would be telling Scotland what to do. We’d be making our own decisions.

    139. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The SNP is culpable for *not* obliterating Capitalism?

      Hmm….

      Try shaking the other leg, fool.

    140. Ghillie says:

      Any new readers here I would strongly recommend going back up to Macart @ 1.11 pm = )

      Alot of excellent and positive posts tonight.

      I think we are well past the tipping point for paying heed to the establishment-sponsored attempts to continualy run down Scotland and our successful governance of our own Country, making the best of the paltry powers our Scottish Government have at present.

      We have always known that Scotland has the resources, the skills, and above all, the people AND now we are gathering the evidence.

      Which will win Yes votes.

      We are well on our Road to Independence folks = )

    141. Alex Clark says:

      It doesn’t matter if you win a one post argument against a troll, they will simply change the subject and carry on.

      They already know that their argument is flawed but they don’t care, they just want you to engage with them and the longer the better because then their disruption has worked.

      You might “win” on a topic of their choosing and then they’ll change the topic but being unable to resist back you come and when you do then the thread suffers another blow.

      The result is a mess and they are laughing out loud, most particularly at you that are addressing their comments, it would be better IMV if you totally ignored them, there are interesting things to post about I’m sure without addressing their drivel.

      Everyone who’s read Wings more than a dozen times know who these culprits are, I wish some would take the Rev’s advice.

      Do not engage them, that’s the best rebuke you could ever give.

    142. Famous15 says:

      A troll is like a paedophile. Pretends to like you but really wants to shaft you.

      Graphic but true.

      Scottish independence is a normal desire,not a malevolence!

    143. Cactus says:

      ” We are well on our Road to Independence folks = ) “

      Well said Ghillie x.

      Congratulations to iScot and thanks to all of the over 700 people who put theirs hand in their pockets when it mattered and made it count. You’re cool.

      Scotland… we’re a big country.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfuFYBiLH5k

      Guest appearance by Boris.

    144. Clootie says:

      The too wee, too poor and too stupid campaign concerns me for one reason….why do so many Scots accept the slur. I still come up against many of my fellow countrymen who “fear” the thought of standing alone.

      “no one can put you down without your permission/acceptance”

    145. Ken500 says:

      The only thing the psycho bastards unionists at Westminster are interested in is themselves. The Brexit shambles. The Vow. All they have ever wanted is to hold Scotland back. Their lies and deceit kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Losing Scotland £Billions. Thatcher/Blair, Wasted by illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion, May now the most unpopular PM ever. Scotland pays it’s own (UK) pension/benefits, Defence bill etc. £1Billion for Trident. It would be better spent on higher pensions. Pensioners from other Cities should be able to access off peak travel on the Trams with their (bus) travel passes. They paid for it. Under utilised.

      The Tories Royals commemorating a War their family caused. Inter rivalries and the ‘divine right to rule’. They should be apologising. The European Royals. German Victoria’s grandchildren. It finished most of them off. The Czar, the Kaiser. Germany and Russia went in to develop their economies. The UK lags behind in colossal debt. 16th.

      The most successful economies are all smaller countries. They top the list. Norway, Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark Singapore. Tax evasion in the EU is being clamped down upon. The reason the Westminster unionists want out of the EU. Corbyn is a liar. With incompatible policies. Brexit. Some people get taken in. In Scotland vote Labour get Tory.

      Why do wealthy elected farmers. MP’s MSP’s not have to declare subsidies among their financial interest. It is a relevant financial consideration. Or is it non justifiable. Especially when they want to cut £Millions from Education. Cut additional needs/specialist teachers Cut rural schools. Their voters. Leading to overcrowded schools. Then liar about it in Holyrood. Westminster pycho bastards. Cutting £Billions from Education/NHS.

    146. Az says:

      Iceland and Malta. Successful nations.

      Scotland. Suppressed nation. Quasi-colony.

      Luxembourg I have been to. The stereotype of Luxembourg, as espoused by ‘the English’ / British types, is that it is “boring”. That’s all I’ve ever heard, or variations thereof, like “there’s nothing there”.

      Haha, such UKOK arrogance.

      It is indeed tiny, originally having been a city-state and today only having enough territory to squeeze in a few other small towns and villages. The city itself is fascinating, with its natural fortress on 3 sides. It is an extremely pleasant country, its public transport, which is linked up in a cool way to the nearby towns in Belgium and France, is excellent.

      Eg it is (or was in 2013) possible to booard a beautiful, roomy, comfortable and coach-like air conditioned bus at the massive Auchan (huge supermarket with built on shopping centre) at Mont St Martin in France, and pay €2 (2 hour limit on ticket), sit comfortably for the few minutes it takes to get to Belgium, where it passes through Aubange and Athus, literally ten or so minutes, then the bus stops at Pétange, which is actually across the next border in Luxembourg.

      The next bit blew my mind – with the same ticket, this wee square of paper, I could board a train at there and would be in Luxembourg city in about 20 minutes.

      Two euro.

      More incredibly, if I literally had to run somewhere not too far and was quick enough, I could have gone back to France with the same ticket!

      Oh aye Luxembourg’s shite so it is no history or anything, no freaky big gold statues, no amazing walks down below the traffic above into the old city with amazing green – trees, grass, winding paths, gorgeous buildings and little bars and bistros, nah, no nothing – nothing cool about people who are almost all polyglots, nothing about those classic big city squares with al fresco treats nah it’s pure shite and “boring”. Take it fae a yoon, or take it fae me.

      I tell you Luxembourg is worth a city break 🙂

    147. Capella says:

      This is a great series. Phantom Power films could make some interesting videos on the too wee, too poor, too stupid theme.

    148. Ghillie says:

      Hey there Cactus = )

      Az, you have my attention!

      Your wee Luxenburg travel log has me intrigued.

      Luxenburg sounds like a perfect place to visit and enjoy for a long weekend. Small is beautiful after all!!

      Malta and Iceland are on the list too 🙂

    149. McDuff says:

      Gus 1940.
      10.21
      Yes I thought that too. I also thought it odd when watching STV2` s news at 1pm the other day that the reader was from the Rep of Ireland and this was followed by two episodes of the Irish soap “fair city.
      Its as if the media is intent on diminishing “Scottishness“, you can call me paranoid but something is going on.

    150. Macart says:

      Right on time Nana. 🙂

    151. Nana says:

      Morning all, four links have yet to appear. There may have been a banned word I didn’t spot. They may appear later.

    152. Stuart McTavish says:

      Tinto Chiel at 10.22

      Cheers again. Followed your link and succumbed to a bit of curious narcissism only to find myself reading Washington Irving’s Astoria with no little pride and a huge sense of loss.

      Also discovered out along the way that the historic gentleman I’d been lauding earlier is alleged to have been responsible for demolishing the clan castle – the bastard – so will endeavour to be more careful with who gets my respect in future!

      That said, nothing but fond memories of Embra, even the fierce(lol) toryboy types – though I sometimes wonder how many still respect the Jacobin roots of their chosen political allegiance.

    153. Stuart McTavish says:

      Tinto Chiel at 10.22

      Cheers again. Followed your link and succumbed to a bit of curious narcissism only to find myself reading Washington Irving’s Astoria with no little pride and a huge sense of loss.

      Also discovered along the way that the historic gentleman I’d been lauding earlier is alleged to have been responsible for demolishing the clan castle – the bastard – so will endeavour to be more careful with who gets my respect in future!

      That said, nothing but fond memories of Embra, even the fierce(lol) toryboy types – though I sometimes wonder how many still respect the Jacobin roots of their chosen political allegiance.

    154. heedtracker says:

      Not sure Iceland’s made a bid, Scotland’s capital city Edinburgh would be an amazing contender, if only…

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40772332

      Brexit: Race to host EU agencies relocated from London

      EU countries have until midnight to enter a race to bid to provide a new home for two agencies that will be relocated from the UK after Brexit.

      The European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency, based in Canary Wharf in London, employ just over 1,000 staff between them.

      The banking and medicines agencies are seen as the first spoils of Brexit by the 27 remaining members of the EU.

    155. Graeme says:

      colin alexander says:
      31 July, 2017 at 12:57 am

      @Heedtracker “your comment is o/t but that’s not for me to moan about.

      Aye England could have it’s own sovereign parliament. Scotland would have it’s own sovereign parliament.

      We could have a UK parliament for the things we want to work together on, such as defence, pensions and trade, if that’s what we decide we want to work together on.

      Those decisions of the UK parliament would need to be ratified or can be blocked by the sovereign parliaments until a compromise is reached acceptable to both parties.

      Either parliament / country can leave the union if it wants to. Anytime it wants to; it’s a voluntary agreement. As all parties are sovereign. Nobody rules over anybody else.

      UK parliament doesn’t rule over anyone, it’s subservient to both.

      It would be a loose Union of sorts but we’d have sovereignty, so would England, but we can work together where it suits both.

      But we’d also be independent in the sense that nobody would be telling Scotland what to do. We’d be making our own decisions.”

      I’m not meaning to be contentious here but you’ve been beating this drum for a while now.

      I want full independence hopefully inside the EU, there would be no reason to enter into another union with England,

      another union with England however loose would only add another layer of bureaucracy and who wants that,

      nations can enter into agreements on any subject of mutual interest without a union.

      We’ve had enough of unions with England and I mean no disrespect to the English people when I say that but the concept of a union is alien to the Westminster cabal they only know how to rule,divide and abuse, they believe it’s their god given right.

      Graeme

    156. wull2 says:

      Why does YES movement not start a internet radio station with a 10 second fact between tracks or just promoting this site instead of a DJ , the tracts and the facts could be random and topical of the day, the content could be computer generated, the station could be played in shops to people not meant to hear !

    157. Ghillie says:

      Thank you Nana!

      Graeme @ 8.45 am Well said = )

      Happy New Week folks! May everything go well for you all 🙂

    158. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Is Colin Alexander giving the game away? Blaming the SNP and the Scottish Government for things over which it had/has no control and suggesting a federal distraction.

    159. Daily Record sales down 10.3%. Sunday Mail down 12.6%.

    160. shug says:

      Unionism must be branded as the ‘dependency’ culture

      The message must be London looks at unionists as:

      – benefit scroungers (unemployed, pensioners, disabled)

      – expendable (wars, highland division, soldiers who lose their legs, Scottish regiments)

      – You are clearly incapable and you depend on us to run your affairs.

      When unionists realize their loyalty is being met with complete contempt, they will move.

      The message must be delivered softly

    161. Glamaig says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      The phrase ‘SNP Scottish Government’ in one of his earlier posts is straight out of the Labour manual.

    162. philip maughan says:

      I feel a new Wee (insert colour here) Book coming on.

    163. galamcennalath says:

      shug says:

      their loyalty is being met with complete contempt

      It is. The perceptions of non-English BritNats and English Greater Englanders are quite different.

      Scottish Unionists remind me of a playground scenario.

      The uncool kid is an outsider but so much wants to be part of the cool kids gang. So the uncool kid goes to extremes to try to impress the cools kids in the hope that they will be accepted. However the cool kids just allow the uncool kid to tag along for their amusement. The cool kid will never be accepted into the cool gang.

      And so it goes with Scottish BritNat Unionists. Wannabes, but they will never be truly accepted. They will always be outsiders and second class to true Greater Englanders.

    164. colin alexander says:

      @Dave McEwan

      To clarify, as you seem to misunderstand:

      A quick definition of federalism: National govt is equal to the regions or states. The regions are integral parts of the national state.

      Is that what I suggested above? No.

      I said “national govt is subservient to the sovereign parliaments”.

      That is not a federal arrangement. That is confederal.

      The reason we offer that is because last time more than half didn’t want full independence. You can be sure a large % will be in favour of a union again.

      I’m just pointing out you can have independent sovereignty AND a union.

      —————————————————–
      You don’t want another union if Scotland became independent?

      “European Union”

      I thought the clue was in the name. The EU is a Union. And even the likes of mighty England got told what to do. That’s why they voted leave.

      In 2014 Scotland wanted the EU to speak up for Scotland’s continued membership. The EU more or less told Scotland to: **** off. The UK is our member state.

      I was a YES campaigner then, I was more sensible then and didn’t post on WoS.

      I privately wrote to the EU in 2014: “Your Europe Advice”. As a EU citizen I asked them can Scotland remain within the EU. Their legal adviser said, No.

      That legal advice is not a legal ruling, only advice. But that’s the answer I got from the EU’s legal advisers.

      It’s only cos England has fell out with them that suddenly Scotland is getting the red carpet treatment. Be under no illusions about that.

      The EU now wants Scotland for the same reason England does. We are of use to them. Huge natural resources etc.

      My view is that we let the people decide if Scotland should join the EU or EEA or Cumstoms Union etc AFTER we are independent.

    165. Robert Peffers says:

      @Graeme says: 31 July, 2017 at 8:45 am:

      ” … We’ve had enough of unions with England and I mean no disrespect to the English people when I say that but the concept of a union is alien to the Westminster cabal they only know how to rule,divide and abuse, they believe it’s their god given right.”

      Mater of fact, Graeme, the whole historic concept of, “Sovereignty”, actually derives from the idea that sovereignty is a God given right. The truth is, and always has been, quite a different matter.

      The fact is that the strongest, and not necessarily the physically strongest, person in a community of any size naturally becomes the leader of that community. You can se this happening in all species on Earth. There will always be a leader of any pride, pack or herd. Under normal circumstances that leader will always be subject to challenges by other strong members who fancy their chances.

      Humans, though, introduced a couple of extra concepts to that natural selection of leadership. One was the, entirely without evidence, concept of Gods. First of all with Gods that could be shown to exist. Sun worshipping for example and usually these Gods had Earthly representatives who were, of course, the leaders of the communities.

      Then came the concept that, instead of the next leader being just anyone who could overcome the previous holder of the leadership that their particular God chose the next in the heredity line by reason of simply being first born into the leadership family and the concept of Royalty being, “sovereign”, was invented in order to keep the power of leadership, “In the, “Royal”, family”.

      To the extent that the term, “The Sovereign”, became synonymous with the Terms, “King”, “Queen”, “Emperor”, or whatever. To tie that down to the United Kingdom in particular, they had a couple of wee problem as the concepts of, “Sovereignty”, had taken differing paths in the two still independent kingdoms. First of all each, still independent, kingdom had chosen a different solution to the sovereignty issue and their solutions were incompatible. Secondly, by reason of a marriage of convenience between two royal children long before the two kingdoms settled upon joining together, both crowns ended up on the same, (Scottish), royal head.

      Yet in spite of the still extant English claim that there was, “A Union of The Crowns”, in 1603, no such union took place and the main reason for that was because the Scots had legally changed their concept of, “Sovereignty”, in 1320 with the, “Declaration of Arbroath”, and the monarch of Scotland was not legally, “Sovereign”, and thus could not either give away the People of Scotland’s sovereignty because it was not his to give as the Monarch of Scotland

      Then, as the English Parliament had rebelled against the then English monarch in 1688 in the, “Glorious Revolution”, and had deposed that monarch and then forced the two foreign joint members of the house of Orange to legally agree to delegate their Sovereign powers to the Parliament of England so there cannot, even now, be any legal way for the two legal systems to become compatible.

      Which is why Westminster is claiming it has overall sovereignty over Scotland but really has no evidence to legally make it stick. Their only argument is thus nothing more than, “Because we at Westminster say so”. Scotland’s weakness is also Scotland’s strength.

      As Scottish sovereignty is legally held by the people of Scotland then it requires that a democratic majority of the people of Scotland must agree to end the Treaty of Union but that requires that the people of Scotland must give a recognised authority their permission to exercise the people of Scotland’s legal sovereignty and withdraw from the Treaty of Union.

      Which action, in spite of what Westminster has brainwashed almost everyone to believe, will end the United Kingdom. It will not, in fact it cannot, boil down to a case of the Kingdom of Scotland leaving behind any form of rUK, (aUnited Kingdom).

      What Scotland leaves behind is what WAS the, unelected as such, de facto parliament of the Kingdom of England. What that, unelected as such, de facto parliament of the Kingdom of England decides to do about the two, actually elected as such, existing legislatures of the former English dominions of Wales & Northern Ireland is obviously none of the Kingdom of Scotland’s business.

      It is the midden that Westminster created to crow over and it is the midden that the, unelected as such, de facto parliament of the Kingdom of England will have to sort out for itself.

      I do not envy them that task. Hopefully, for everyone’s sake, I hope it is a bloodless solution.

    166. heedtracker says:

      It’s only cos England has fell out with them that suddenly Scotland is getting the red carpet treatment. Be under no illusions about that.

      That’s a con too Colin A. You’re quite the con artist, sorry youse are quite the con artist.

      There is no EU red carpet treatment for Scotland. Although you will spin any contact say FM Sturgeon has had with anyone EU, as the EU red carpet treatment.

      Its how it all works, yoon culture wise Colin A, all of its spin and lies, or just your btl stuff.

      See you in court. Sorry see youse in court.

    167. harry mcaye says:

      I don’t think The National has long left. Their editor admitted on Saturday that sales have been hit since the GE and today I find only TWO for sale in my local Sainsburys. A year ago that would have been 12-15 at ten in the morning. Oh well, it will soon be back to no indy presence on the news stands and at least Rock will be happy.

    168. colin alexander says:

      The Scottish bankers did the crime not the SNP(except seemingly it’s not a crime when it’s done in Scotland or England).

      The SNP had little to say about it though. As they were sooking up to the bankers too up to 2008. They were wanting a big slice of the deregulated banking pie for Edinburgh.

      The SNP had little to say on the matter about the crooked Scottish banks. The Scottish Establishment protect their own – but they crucify their enemies like the Sheridans.

      The Scottish Establishment serves the London Establishment.

      When London gave the call, The Scottish Establishment bankers and business Establishment stuck the knife into YES / SNP campaign in 2014.

      Nothing has changed there since 2014. They are ready and waiting, dirks in hand to crush indyref2.

      I’m not anti-capitalism. Commerce should be regulated for the good of the country. Not laws for the poor, but the rich do what they want cos they are professionals. When left to run themselves it bankrupts the country and the poor pick up the bill for it, while the rich crooks remain rich.

      Fantasy politics to say it’s all London’s fault. We have enemies closer to home. They are called the fat cat bankers and Scottish Establishment.

      Like Joan McAlpine with the Daily Record, like the SNP with the Scottish Establishment. The support is one sided. Like cuddling a wild Tiger.

      Those teeth and claws will be used to rip the YES campaign apart – again.

      The ordinary citizens of Iceland took down the big shots when they betrayed the people. Here the big shots are still betraying the people and will again.

      Think on that when planning indyref2.

    169. yesindyref2 says:

      @colin alexander
      You’re getting more rabid by the meenit.

    170. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 31 July, 2017 at 11:26 am:
      “@colin alexander
      You’re getting more rabid by the meenit.”

      Well no, yesindyref2, Colin has always been as rabid as that. You just didn’t realise it until now.

    171. orri says:

      The only reason Westminster is any way “sovereign” over Scotland is that duly elected, albeit by a flawed system, representatives from Scotland sit in the Commons. And that in 2014 we were foolish enough to opt to remain part of the UK.

      The reason devolution is such a problem, for them, is that legally any sovereignty Westminster or Holyrood have is by delegation from the people of Scotland. It’s not really devolution as at every stage we, the people, have been consulted via referenda or by electing a Holyrood administration on a manifesto of moving more powers to it. It’s a re-allocation of responsibilities.

      The only way Westminster can “legally” , under Scots law, retain powers from the hands of our MEPs is by rubbing out any reference to EU in the devolution settlement and replacing it with UK.

    172. heedtracker says:

      Well no, yesindyref2, Colin has always been as rabid as that. You just didn’t realise it until now.

      Colin’s not an SNP voter. He wants change BUT, if we dont vote SNP, nothing will ever change.

      SLab’s incredibly conservative, in hundreds of ways, and its all London, London, London for that crew.

      Tories are just hideous.

      Green’s are not exactly radical at all really. Be nice to animals, scrap the offensive football chanting in the street thingee, recycle, maybe vote tory sometimes, depends on Patrick Harvie’s mood swings.

      So if you’re still out there Colin A, planning your defamation actions, who do we vote for, for change, if its not SNP?

    173. colin alexander says:

      @Yesindyref2 disappointed that you are resorting to the argumentum ad hominem style of debate.

      If you have time to waste with silly insults, you have time to read this:

      https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201213/ldselect/ldeconaf/152/152.pdf

      I do offer the proviso that it’s written by the Unionists for the Unionists. However, it points out RBS assets dwarves the annual GDP of Scotland. If RBS or HBoS crash, Scotland crashes.

      RBS and HBoS debts could crush indy Scotland more than happened in Iceland or Ireland. That’s how dangerous these bankers are if given free reign.

      For those dreamers who think YES in 2014 were offering full independence see:

      “The Scottish Government is not therefore interested in dollarisation and favours a monetary union between an independent Scotland and the rest ofthe UK. Mr John Swinney MSP, Cabinet Secretary for Finance,Employment and Sustainable Growth in the Scottish Government, told us:

      “The core proposition is for us to establish a formal monetary union with the rest of the United Kingdom with the Bank of England operating as the central bank for sterling and so on, discharging its functions on behalf of both fiscal authorities in Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom. Those functions would be on essentially price stability and financial stability.”

      65
      He added: “The Bank of England is … the Bank of the whole United
      Kingdom … we would wish the Bank of England to continue [to be] lender of last resort to [Scottish] financial institutions.”66 We therefore concentrate in this chapter on the implications of this approach.

      UNION. Not independence: Monetary Union.

      8 “For the Bank of England to provide central bank services to
      substantial financial institutions operating in an independent
      Scotland and regulated by a body reporting to an independent
      Scottish Government implies that the Bank would accept risks over
      which it had little control, which seems implausible.”

      ( The EU requires independent states to have their own national financial regulator).

      However, To put it another way, if Scotland wanted the Bank of England to pick up the tab for it’s financial sector, then the Bank of England and those who rely on the BoE such as England, would want to be in charge, not an indy Scotland’s financial regulator.

      ———————————-

      The SNP also wanted continued membership of the European Union.

      A Union where Brussels and Strasbourg are sovereign and national members’ laws must comply with EU, because EU is sovereign, not national parliaments, for as long as the states are members.

      ———————————

    174. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      The thing is that Colin can be “rabidly” anti-SNP, but that doesn’t in itself mean he’s anti-Indy. There are plenty of Indy supporters who actually hate the SNP – but still voted YES. And to get a majority in Indy Ref 2, we need these SNP-haters to vote YES, then vote for whatever party they want for the first Independent Scotland Elections. I, by the way, will still currently be voting SNP as their policies best match mine generally, I think they’re pretty competent overall, and I think they’re the best party for Scotland.

    175. heedtracker says:

      The SNP also wanted continued membership of the European Union.

      A Union where Brussels and Strasbourg are sovereign and national members’ laws must comply with EU, because EU is sovereign, not national parliaments, for as long as the states are members.

      And yet tory UK, red and blue, simply did whatever they liked Colin A, everything from going to war in the middle east, to scrapping or ignoring huge issues like the work time directive.

      Funny thing, sovereignty.

    176. yesindyref2 says:

      @@colin alexander
      You’re absolutely right, I said “You’re getting more rabid by the meenit.” what I SHOULD have said is “Your postings are getting more rabid by the meenit.”

      HoL report – read it way back. Banking sector – a report from one of the ratings agency said that the sector amounted to 1250% of Scotland’s GDP (or some such figure) and this was unhealthy. Generally I agreed it’s not good, but with newer EU banking regulations, UK moves, RBS disaggregation, and moves already out of Edinburgh by others in the financial sector, this exposure is now considerably less, but has not currently been quantified. My guess is around 600% which is much more healthy, and sustainable for a strong economy such as ours.

    177. Alex Clark says:

      Some relevant facts about RBS and HBoS for those that might fall for some of the rubbish posted here as facts but is nothing other than an attack against Scottish Independence.

      The whole point of Wings is about exposing Unionist lies and myths used to spread fear in the population. Expose the lies when liars make them.

      1. The banks were wholly regulated from London. They were only allowed to change the way they lend money by the Westminster Parliament who were following the neo-classical economic strategy of little or seemingly no regulation, and a no limits on lending strategy as long as the loan is secured against an asset. The joint architect of this economic strategy that helped to collapse the global economy was Alistair Darling now the leader of the ‘No’ campaign.

      2. 90% of RBS and HBoS UK employees were based out-with Scotland so 90% of employers income tax was paid to Westminster, and not counted as Scottish or Scottish Government revenue.

      3. Likewise 90% of the banks national insurance contributions were paid to Westminster and not counted as Scottish.

      4. 80% of the losses of RBS for example were generated from the banks London based operations.

      5. As with all companies corporation tax is not considered regional and therefore the corporation tax paid by the banks is not considered to be a Scottish Government revenue, it is all paid directly to Westminster. Note: RBS paid £16 billion in corporate taxes from 1998 to 2007, NONE of this was counted as Scottish Government revenue…

      As Andrew Hughes Hallett, Professor of Economics at St Andrew’s University, put it: “The real point here, and this is the real point, is by international convention, when banks which operate in more than one country get into these sorts of conditions, the bailout is shared in proportion to the area of activities of those banks, and therefore it’s shared between several countries.

      “In the case of the RBS, I’m not sure of the exact numbers, but roughly speaking 90% of its operations are in England and 10% are in Scotland, the result being, by that convention, therefore, that the rest of the UK would have to carry 90% of the liabilities of RBS and Scotland 10%.

      “And the precedent for this, if you want to go into the details, are the Fortis Bank and the Dexia Bank, two banks which were shared between France, Belgium and the Netherlands, at the same time were bailed out in proportion by France, Belgium and the Netherlands.”

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/why-did-the-banks-only-become-scottish-after-they-failed/

    178. yesindyref2 says:

      @Alex
      Yes, and added to that, when the ratings agency (possibly Moody’s but could have been S&P), put that figure of 1250% of GDP exposure for the financial sector, they were taking figures from the Treasury as it’s the UK was (is) their actual customer, and they put a disclaimer to that effect, and that to arrive at a proper figure overall of credit rating, they would need input from the Scottish Government. Which we know would give better figures, and therefore a better rating. But not something (yet) we can actually prove – it’s just an assertion.

      So that figure of 1250% was an absolute max, the highest the Treasury could manage to make it, the real figure may well have been hugely less based on actual economic actitivity, and since then it has reduced from that.

      Which makes my guess of 600% almost definitely, on the high side.

    179. colin Alexander says:

      @Ken500

      Why no prosecution of Blair or Brown under the Scottish legal system then?

      Why hasn’t the SNP or Scots Govt asked Police Scotland to investigate and let the Procurator Fiscal decide if a case should be brought?

      If you think Mr Brown or Blair are guilty of serious crimes, why don’t you report Mr Brown or Mr Blair to Police Scotland?

      Culpable homicide is a breach of Scots Law: “Culpable homicide is committed where the accused has caused loss of life through wrongful conduct, but where there was no intention to kill or “wicked recklessness”. It is an offence under common law and is roughly equivalent to the offence of manslaughter in English law.”

      I’m not judging them of being guilty of anything though. That would for the jury to decide if prosecuted.

      Scottish Establishment = London Establishment, just with different accents. Scotland prosecuting Mr Blair or Mr Brown would upset London, in turn it would upset the USA.

      So, the Scottish Establishment won’t touch them. Including the SNP.

    180. yesindyref2 says:

      “Why no prosecution of Blair or Brown under the Scottish legal system then?”

      BECAUSE THERE’S NO LAW EITHER IN THE SCOTTISH LEGAL SYSTEM OR THE UK LEGAL SYSTEM THEY COULD BE PROSECUTED UNDER.

      How many times do you have to be told this?

    181. colin Alexander says:

      @Yesindyref2

      At last, sensible debate.

      So bank debts 6x national GDP is acceptable?

      Iceland nationalised and liquidated their banks to prevent it happening again.

      Another reason why we should be more like Iceland, not our national economic wellbeing held ransom to bankers’ gambles.

    182. yesindyref2 says:

      @colin Alexander
      One of the conclusions of the S&P / Moody report was that Scotland’s credit rating (and hence interest rate for borrowing) would be improved by a reduction in exposure to the financial sector which was considered large in Scotland – though as Alex said, it doesn’t take properly into account where the liability lies. In the bank crash for instance, the USA picked up a substantial liability for UK based bank debt – because the actitivity was there, not the UK. Similar would happen for Scotland compared to the rUK.

      From memories of the time – over 3 years ago – compared to other countries, even 600% would be quite acceptable, and our economy would support it. Remember that that’s total liability, and even in the bank crash before, the total liability was not taken by the UK taxpayers, even though potentially covered through the BoE. Total UK liability was also a high figure compared to other countries, though less than 1250%.

      A caveat in that credit rating report was that reduction in the liability would be good for Scotland’s economy. Well, that has already happened, very substantially.

    183. heedtracker says:

      Another reason why we should be more like Iceland, not our national economic wellbeing held ransom to bankers’ gambles.

      All of which will never happen under the current regime, of London ruling Scotland as a region, their northern region.

      You’re just like the gripers we get in Scotland Colin A, how they moan away about how shite Scots stuff is, that have nothing to do with Holyrood, let alone SNP Scots gov.

      That’s usually SLabbers, worse is listening to tories whine about how little the SNP Scots gov done for Scotland in a decade of power, when all tories do is block everything and anything that SNP Scots gov try to do.

      Makes you want to jab them with a large hat pin, they used to say, here’s one of the tory twerps in action today. You and this git have so much in common Colin A.

      He’s a shameless tory git is Torrance of the Herald Colin A but you all are really.

      “Soon the Scottish Tories will use the 20th anniversary of the 1997 devolution referendum to make the unpopular but valid point that 18 years of the Scottish Parliament hasn’t exactly delivered on the promise of transformative change.

      Nor has a decade of Nationalist rule – the SNP devoting more energy to denying it has the power to do things (to help, for example, the female pensioners who have lost years of entitlement) than actually legislating in a progressive way.”

      Vote tory, we’re the shysters you know and trust, trust to shyste you, hard.

    184. Alex Clark says:

      If we had not had devolution since 1997 then Scotland would be governed today exactly the same as England is.

      NO free tuition.

      NO free prescriptions.

      NO free eye tests.

      No scrapping of bridge tolls.

      NO free bus passes.

      You’d have privatised water boards.

      You’d have the bedroom tax.

      You’d have privatised doctors surgeries within the SNHS.

      “18 years of the Scottish Parliament hasn’t exactly delivered on the promise of transformative change”

      Torrance as usual is talking BOLLOCKS and it’s because of Devolution that we can chose to do things differently.

      The main point though is that we can only choose to do things differently if they fall within the devolved powers that we do have. Would be great if Torrance could explain how the Scottish Government could “to help, for example, the female pensioners who have lost years of entitlement”

      Fantasy land that man lives in, only the SNP are fighting in Westminster against female pensioners losing their entitlement. I believe that an Independent Scotland with all economic powers would NOT have followed such a path as Westminster has chosen.

      The pensioners in an Independent Scotland would not have been robbed as they are being right now by Westminster. That is certain.

      Torrance is a Unionist mouthpiece in Scotland, it’s that simple.

    185. clipper says:

      “yesindyref2 says:
      31 July, 2017 at 1:57 pm
      “Why no prosecution of Blair or Brown under the Scottish legal system then?”

      BECAUSE THERE’S NO LAW EITHER IN THE SCOTTISH LEGAL SYSTEM OR THE UK LEGAL SYSTEM THEY COULD BE PROSECUTED UNDER.

      How many times do you have to be told this?”

      As many times as idiots like you are happy to waste your time telling them.

    186. yesindyref2 says:

      I hardly bother reading Torrance these days. There was a time he was starting to post sensible articles, it was the EU vote that triggered him. But like others he’s slipped back from that, back to just mad dog attacks on the SNP for no real valid reason. Yes, it seems to have gone back to attacking devolution itself, but then the Tories opposed Devolution back in 1997, and 1979. It seems they’ve totally reverted.

      But worse than that for Torrance, he seems to accept that Brexit will be well negotiated. Think again David, even Michel Barnier has started to take pity on the UK for having such clowns as the Tories are, and suggesting that the UK “team” might want to start looking at, for instance, the CTA (Common Travel Area). In other words, to get a reasonable settlement Barnier who is supposed to be negotiating purely for the EU-27, is actually having to negotiate BOTH SIDES.

      Torrance is a lost soul. His party are numpties, its ministers are numpties, and Ruth Davidson is hardly inspiring these days either, despite claims to the contrary. In fact Torrance would be better giving up politics and taking up writing about dog shows.

    187. yesindyref2 says:

      @clipper
      I quote the Rev:

      1. Write as if an undecided voter is reading.

      Fewer than 1% of the site’s readers post comments. That means the comments give you an inaccurate picture of the overall readership, and things that might go down well within a small group of dedicated activists don’t sound so good to people who’ve come to the site looking for information to help make up their minds.

      Regular posters may well know the score, but the greater than 99% of readers, who may well be variable, different for each article, and skimming through comments. may not know the answer to what might, on the surface, seem to be a reasonable comment.

      Anything incorrect really has to be refuted, and yes, time after time after time, if neccessary. For what any lurker might know, any poster could be regarded as a “definitive” source of information, unless it’s pointed out to the contrary. That’s the problem even with “trolls”. A casual reader won’t know the difference.

      The other thing is that lurkers may well cut down to the bottom of a long thread to see the latest posts. Hence why one or two usual suspects add to the end of a thread, a day or two after it’s been forgotten about by regulars who have moved on to the next article, or even the 1 or 2 after that.

    188. geeo says:

      I will swap details with Colin.

      In person.

      At night.

      No witnesses.

      Bet he says no.

      Fucking arsehole.

    189. Alex Clark says:

      I totally agree with refuting lies and propaganda posted by trolls on Wings.

      However, there is no need to address them personally and absolutely never get into a debate with them about the subject.
      Refute them with evidence and expose their lies and myths, then move on.

    190. Richard Duncan says:

      colin Alexander

      Re – just about everything you write is a continuation of any other subject than whats being talked here.

      Your replies are long winded and so feckin boring please stop you really are a pain.

      And along with Rock and Blair P you only come here to break up threads.

      Oh for the old days (pre-2014) when the trolls were off within weeks . I wish Stu would boot your arse over to CS or something more your level.

      Congrats for spoiling things .

      Please block this bugger Stu . I am fed up scrolling past pages and fecking pages of his hysterical bullshit.

      OBE from Woking never pissed me off as much as he does and he was a complete wanker .

      I know you have very few friends Colin but maybe Bella and CS can leave a wee slot for you to spout yer pish.

      N.B. I know we should ignore trolls but this guy takes up half the comments space in every article now . 🙁 🙁

    191. yesindyref2 says:

      @Alex
      Always use anything we can get for our own purposes. In this case it gives us an insight into possible lines of attack so we’re ready, able and willing to tackle them in the outside world, as well as catering for any undecideds here.

      It’s kind of like an army soldier ant giving the enemy their attack plans when battle hasn’t even commenced (there’s no election, no Indy Ref within the next few months).

      “Here, have a butcher’s at this, this is how we’re going to attack you”.

      Thanks for that!

    192. Meg merrilees says:

      Nana 8.51am Thaks for the link about Catalonian Independence and the views of their MEP Terricabras:

      http://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/mep-terricabras-proposes-hunger-strike-if-referendum-is-prevented_179064_102.html

      … if the EU does not accept a referendum in Catalonia doing it “positively” and “peacefully”, one has “to consider” the objective of the project. “To accept that countries can declare themselves independent after a war and not accept it after a vote would be monstrous and we should consider what the EU means,” he emphasized. According to Terricabras, moreover, Brussels will want “to guarantee stability in southern Europe” and knows that Catalonia has “always” been pro-European.

    193. colin Alexander says:

      @ Heedtracker the UK is part of the work time directive, but individual worker have the option of opting out. If they don’t opt out then it applies.

      So, the good thing about the EU is that we can still illegally invade other countries? Come on Heedtracker, I think you are capable of better justifications than that. Must try harder.

    194. colin Alexander says:

      @Heedtracker

      You are the one calling me Unionist troll, so it would be up to me to prove you did that.

      Then the burden of proof would fall on you to prove I support Unionism.

      If you fail to do that, then it’s likely the Sheriff would find in my favour.

      It would be up to me to show that the accusation of being a Unionist lowers my reputation.

      On that basis I don’t suppose I’d get much compensation, as over half the people in Scotland ( and the Sheriff) may consider being called a Unionist to be a compliment, not an insult. Even though I don’t agree.

      So legal action cancelled.

    195. colin Alexander says:

      “You’d have the bedroom tax.

      You’d have privatised doctors surgeries within the SNHS”

      We do have the Bedroom Tax in Scotland. The Scot Govt uses our Scot Govt allocated funds to cover it, so individuals don’t need to pay it, but we still have it. So funds that were given to cover other devolved services are being used to cover the UK Govt’s attack on the poor.

      GP surgeries – I believe there’s always been a private business element in GP surgeries ever since the start of the NHS.



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