The squishy floor
Alert readers will have to decide for themselves whether bravado or sheer desperation is to blame, but Scottish Labour just can’t seem to stop themselves from lying to the people of Scotland about the formation of the next government.
Mindbogglingly, the party has just released a video in which Jim Murphy repeats the lie again, and in today’s Daily Record its Ayrshire candidate Sandra Osborne openly admits that “We are talking to people on the doorstep explaining that whoever ends up the biggest party after the election will form the next government”, despite it having been proved beyond the tiniest shred of dispute that that’s simply not true.
Fortunately, reinforcements have arrived.
Below is a clip from the first episode of “When The People Say Not Sure”, a new BBC Radio 4 series examines the working of the infamously unwritten UK constitution in the event of a hung parliament.
In it, historian Peter Hennessy interviews Lord (Sir) Gus O’Donnell, the Cabinet Secretary – the highest-ranked official in the Civil Service, who really ought to know what he’s talking about on the subject – to the last three UK Prime Ministers.
We recommend the entire show, at just 15 minutes, but the 1m 23s extract above is pretty unambiguous. And meanwhile, the highly-respected and impartial research group FullFact.org has also weighed in with an equally unequivocal conclusion:
We will keep pointing the truth out until Scottish Labour stop lying, folks. The ground beneath their feet is turning into quicksand.
“…until Scottish Labour stop lying…”
Is that the same as when Hell freezes over?
Not watching Smurph. Read the FullFact Link earlier.
I worry about these dogwhistle tactics. I hope everyone is wise to not trusting Labour.
I don’t suppose the 6 week purdah period will make a blind bit of difference to them either. The lies will keep spewing forth. Let’s face it, what will the Electoral Commission be able to do to them if they’re not in office.
I wonder if EC fines are tax deductible. If they did manage to hold onto their seat(s) any fine will be claimed back on expenses anyway ans a legitimate campaign expense.
This is simply more indication that they KNOW, ABSOLUTELY, that they are stuffed.
you’d think after all the lies of the past that they’d have wised up. but not them.
At Scottish Labour’s conference a mere 10 days ago, Miliband refuses to rule out SNP Coalition.
Jim Murphy went further and said it would abe disrespectful to the electorate to enter into speculation about post-match analysis before the final whistle is blown. Yet ruled out a deal with the Tories!
SNP said a coalition is very unlikely.
The Tories pile on the pressure for Labour to rule out coalition with SNP. Miliband rules out SNP coalition. Murphy rules out SNP coalition.
So, who is pulling whose strings here? Seems Tories are leading Labour and Westminster is leading Scottish branch office. Still
Anyone surprised by this? Nope, thought not!
Sandra’s tea is oot and this will go a way of ensuring it. No point sending Establishment lobby fodder down to Westminster so hope that Corrie wins and we can have a true Scottish MP to lobby for Scotland.
Jim Murphy knows what he is saying is untrue. He is trying to fleece the Scottish public.
May 7th 2010
Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, added: “The truth is this is an election that none of us could predict as it unfolded and even this evening is entirely unpredictable.
“I think all options are still open, including for example a Labour-Liberal coalition.”
Even Peter Mandelson, on the same report agrees.
Asked if Labour would do a deal to stay in power, said: “The constitutional conventions are very clear. The rules are that if it’s a hung parliament, it’s not the party with the largest number of seats that has first go – it’s the sitting government.”
link to archive.today
He was on Jeremy Vine today saying also that the SNP want to get rid of the Barnett Formula. Have I missed something?!
Was the same story on PM tonight. SNP brought down Govt in 79 and Biggest Party forms new govt – Followed by Prof Curtice saying ‘Not necessarily so’…
Miliband is trying to shore up the labour vote against the tories in England and Plaid Cymru in Wales. He knows Scotland is lost in terms of a majority hence the declaration.
The declaration is meaningless as it does not rule out the loose issue by issue aspects that the FM has always muted and Miliband has not ruled out.
It’s for the hard of thinking, more gullible in England.
On the day the talking will begin after the seats are counted. It’s vital that as many SNP seats are won as possible.
The tories will do their best to manufacture a majority and don’t rule out deals with the lib/dems + uncle tom cobbly and all.
Fascinating, toast for some unionists and pop-corn for me trying to do an all nighter in early hours of 8th May. 🙂
Also this on the BBC website on the 7th May 2010 post election.
The Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy said he believed Mr Brown would be able to put together a coalition.
Speaking at a post-election press conference in Glasgow he said as the sitting PM, Mr Brown had the “constitutional and moral right” to try to form a government.
link to news.bbc.co.uk
Jim Murphy is a LIAR.
I have put my fingers in my ears and am screaming stop telling lies for goodness sake.
People who lie need good memories or they need to tell lies to people with none.
Unfortunately I still have my faculties.
That ubiquitous lie was skewered by John Curtice on today’s “PM” on Radio Four.
Carolyn Quinn tried her best to guide him towards the correct response: “Yes, Carolyn. The largest party always forms the government”. But, on this occasion at least, he rebelled.
He pointed out that the government is formed by whoever can command the best support in the House of Commons.
He used the example of the 1924 Labour government.
In 1924 Labour was the second-largest party, after the Tories, but formed a government with the support of the Liberals. No coalition was formed. The government only ended when the Liberals withdrew their support.
But the SNP didn’t bring down the govt in 1979. Labour’s 34 rebel MP’s including Dennis Skinner did that all by themselves when they failed to support their own government.
Labour=lies, lies, & even more lies.
They will never change so it seems it’s up to the electorate to force that change upon them.
Even if the final vote is kinder to SLab than the polls, most of their MPs are still toast!
Murphy, as leader and can carrier, can’t survive in that role beyond May if his party is thrashed.
The risk of being caught lying will be of little consequence to SLab now! That is the least of their worries. So, they will lie and keep lying is they think it will help hold back the incoming tide.
@Greg at 6:49
My understanding is there will be no need for Barnett when we have FFA. getting FFA is a stated objective of the SNP in this parliament. If they achieve that, they also remove Barnett. Though I sure Unionists will try to sell the story differently!
Morphy can probably get away with this fraud as a election prediction, “explaining that whoever ends up the biggest party after the election will form the next government”
Looks like weeping and pleading is next though, shaky voice, trembling lip, there’s slots at the trough for life at stake here. Creepy Jim’s acting only really worked when he was going crazy with vein popping fury at old ladies asking him questions on his vote NO or else Scotland tour last year.
Alas, for poor Labour fibs, is all they have…that and a shockingly inane pledge card.
Of course if Labour are not the largest party it may suit them tactically to watch the Tories stumble through 5 years of minority government but that is a different matter. They tried that with the SNP and it backfired in their face.
If Labour can secure supply and confidence from the SNP and Libs I think they will consider a stab at minority government, biggest party or not. Indeed the Tories would be foolish to try and stop them if Labour had such backing as the numbers would be against them. The obvious pitfall for Labour would be the necessity to be competent and willing to listen and talk.
Jist fair scunnered , naethin Maer t say !
Except FFS Vote SNP for truth , honesty , clarity and Scotland .
Well, as glues go, there are a number of different types. I’d started putting them all in – animal (won’t have sniffed them), plant (hot favourite), solvents, synthetics etc – but that would have made it a long and boring post.
Either years of usage have damaged the individuals synapses to the point where they believe what they are saying, or they simply think everyone else is on glue and they will believe what their told – with or without cereal.
There are a number of ways these statements can be described;
Insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious, hypocritical.
Alternately, in a different reality, they are simply good old political party interpretations of fact – not really accurate in any way, but hey, who is going to stop and analyse what is said and find it to be false? Who can really be bothered to spend the time sifting through screeds of pish to identify what is true and what is a drug addled big fib? Who is that mild mannered janitor?
Haud on a minute….there is someone who can be bothered to do that….and not from a pineapple at the bottom of the sea either. From a pomegranate in the bottom of the Bath, up from the depths, 20 stories high, Stuzilla.
Keep it going, you’re what is keeping many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, if not millions of “do the right thing” people sane.
And driving the “do the wrong thing” people insane – which is an added bonus.
Slàinte mhath
Desperate measures from a desperate (wee) man!!!Murphy must be thinking along the lines of ‘If you tell a lie often enough, you become unable to distinguish it from the truth’. Surely there cannae be people out there still gullible enough to entertain this fool and his band of merry eejits! Look forward to seeing their reactions come the 8th May.
The unionist media continues to give Murphy and Labour in Scotland an easy time. It is Labour in Scotland’s only support. It’s all… well, I was going to say hot air, but it isn’t even that. It’s the vile breath of next-door’s cat after dining on its own vomit.
The SNP want to phase out the Barnett Formula and replace it with Scotland getting all the resources generated here. So Murphy is right. Long term they want to get rid of it through complete independence. The point is that if we are ever to become independent we need to take responsibility. What Murphy is actually saying is that Scotland is a basket case dependent on the largesse of the rUK without which we could not survive. Debatable how true that is.
In his speech he attacked the Tories for scaring people, saying: “The Tories, the party that haven’t won a majority for over 20 years, are now running a misleading campaign based on the idea of a Labour-SNP coalition. As I said on Thursday night, this idea is nonsense.
It will not happen … In continuing to repeat this claim, the Conservative party and David Cameron are simply trying to scare people”
Ed Milliband explaining why Jim Murphy is up to no good, today in Yorkshire, Tory government with no majority shock.
Gala
You’re quite right on FFA.
FFA means Scotland takes in all revenues generated in Scotland (incl oil/gas) rather than it going to Westminster first.
With Scotland gathering in it’s own revenues & spending from that money, all that is left is to pay WM for it’s share of Defence, Foreign Affairs & macroeconomics i.e. setting & managing monetary policy.
So, if the Tories have more MPs but can’t command a majority, are Labour saying they are going to abstain on all votes in the House of Commons in order to let them govern? This is what interviewers should be asking.
Those few poor lost souls around where I live who are voting Slab are increasingly in denial over the toxicity of Jim Murphy. When I point out his lies they go blank faced and cannot comprehend. It is as if I have said wee Jimmy Kranky is a woman. I throw facts at them like confetti but they are still wedded to his brainless wittering, though there is doubt and fear in their eyes. Especially Katy Clark.
Labour have been lying to the Scottish electorate for almost forty years. Why would they change a standing party order now?
They betrayed their electorate, their own leadership, their friends, their founding ideology and purpose and blamed the repercussions on everyone except themselves.
Its who they are.
A liar is a liar is a liar.
And Labour are full of them up here.
“The latest polling puts support for the SNP at levels that are terrifying for Labour. I bumped into a Scottish Labour MP, a sane chap who this time last year would have thought himself a shoo-in for re-election: he has a five-figure majority. “I’m fucked,” he declared. The SNP was going to beat him. He morbidly remarked that he was only fighting the seat “to get the redundancy”.”
(Andrew Rawnsley, The Observer)
So who was it, do you think? Murphy? Let’s face it, it could be any one of them.
(“I’m Fucked!” Is that Labour’s election slogan? It may as well be.)
It is staggering to think they still think tripe like this will win the day it used to be laughable but now its getting a bit silly ,you should send them a letter Rev telling them they really must try harder 🙂
slighty O/T but i was wondering what would happen if there was a grand coalition of blue and red tories would that then mean the SNP would be in opposition?and which one of them will be PM ,will Cameron lie down and let red ed be PM or vice-versa sorry but when i think about this i cant help chuckling 🙂
@ Geoff Huijer:
“A liar is a liar is a liar.
And Labour are full of them up here.”
They are NOT liars. They’re just over-firm with their denials!
I also don’t think Labour will stop lying. I expect the last member of SLAB will lie about whether they turned the lights out when leaving for the last time while all the windows blaze behind them.
It’s a question of whether the voters are listening or not
and if they are, are they hearing, or like usual Labour type voters immediately jumping to the wrong conclusion
That’s Labours usual weapon keep banging away with the same lie until you give in and accept it
Bit like battered wife syndrome, eventually the perpetrators of that crime hope the woman will just give up hope and do whatever they’re told
Before anybody gets professionally outraged at the comparison of the two no offence was intended, it’s merely used as an illustrative tool
The long and the short is
Labour keep talking pish until you’re out for the count
BTW Stu the new app needs a link on the front page. It clearly works. I LOVE the notifications. Seeing a little Wings symbol on my top bar first thing was magic. Be nice if it sized for the screen but nothing wrong with exercising my fingers either 😉
[…] The squishy floor […]
Tackety Beets says:
“FFS Vote SNP”
Best slogan of the campaign so far. I can see it writ large on billboards across Scotland 😉
It’s all part of the same pattern to fool and patronise voters.
Largest party forms the government..
No ‘official coalition deal’..
Totally disingenuous.
It just makes them look totally untrustworthy.
I hope treating people like fools backfires on Labour.
No wonder the polls are showing that voters want to have a strong SNP group to keep them straight.
@DerekM
Your o/t If the red and blue Tories coalesce who would be PM and who DPM.
Here’s another question.
How many of the back-benchers (seeing lucrative ministerships out of reach) would defect to other parties.
Chuckle, chuckle.
I notice Murphy didn’t rule out an SNP coalition till his boss ruled it out first earlier today. So much for not being beholden to head office.
Strange smell Jim, glue ? no it’s no that, furniture polish you’ve using lots of pledge (s) this year? no it’s no that.
Shite I smell Shite,we need something to get rid of that SLAB reek.
youtu.be/oaQ1CdISw8o
Would Dennis Skinner and Mark Steel consider running as SNP candidates down south?
You can see the desparation in Morphy’s eyes
Honestly – if labour can’t even tell the truth about the Electoral process they do not deserve to play any part in the next government.
They are like an army marching ever forward into no – man’s land – I have yet to see anything quite like it on my short time on earth. The jaws of the trap are closing… maybe their central office thinks they can shore up seats in England with this absurd stance but you can taste the fear.
Labour should have seen the referendum backlash a mile off and produced a strategy to neutralise it but now they are being reactive with some desperate stable door closing…
Blair’s legacy – a party without a soul, without principle, without an identifiable voice and with no idea how to win this election. They are playing a blinder losing it.
They hate the SNP, many folk outwith Scotland seem to, but have they ever put themselves in the SNP’s shoes? Having lost the referendum, what could they do?
The only sensible policy is surely to attempt to rebound by making a big push to play a bigger role in Westminster whilst simultaneously continuing steady governance at Holyrood. Attempting to engage in UK life. Attempting to play a part in the governance of the UK for the betterment of the people they represent, an aim that is surely common to all MPs and political parties!
The SNP would be failing in their duty, and would be unelectable if this were not their goal!
Jim can keep churning out the same line but he needs an intervention from his MSPs because they are marching into the salient with him, albeit some way behind the front line.
If Jim and Ed want to learn from another political party they should stop making the same mistake as the lib dems and stop marching relentlessly towards defeat.
Tell the truth. Treat the people with respect, as adults, as equals. Clear out the dead wood (the dead wood left after May) and begin anew with a simple, honest mission statement. Stop trying to be left and right wing and start putting principles and truth before tabloid headlines and the patronage of the rich.
Because what has happened in Scotland will inevitably happen in England when a party of the left eventually gets its act together.
This article goes into great detail about the various methodologies for dealing with hung parliaments and includes a link to the Cabinet Manual which is supposed to answer this question.
link to opendemocracy.net
Unless the largest party has a majority, it cannot be assumed that it will be able to form a government. It certainly may get to try first, but that is very different from the assumption that the largest party must form a government.
End of.
The question is why are they repeating this lie anyway? It’s plain for all to see that there is no danger they will be the largest party as Milliband is unelectable in England and they are toast in Scotland too.
JM is getting very grey these days. Must be the stress.
O/T
Are you suffering the first signs of BritNat sonic attack?
I seem to be suffering from the majority of these ailments.
link to youtube.com
Aye lollysmum, probably the biggest shockeroonie of the year so far is that the beast of bolsover,the great anti-establishment socialist,helped usher in the milk snatcher.
Given that the “kick out David Mundell” fundraiser reached its target, does anyone feel like giving a wee boost to the “kick out Frank Roy” one?
link to indiegogo.com
Motherwell was the first ever constituency won by the SNP, at a by-election in 1945, by Dr. Robert McIntyre. It would be a good place for an SNP win in 2015. And Wishaw is my home town so I have a vested interest too.
I should have said, the Motherwell and Wishaw fundraiser closes in 11 hours, so it’s tonight or never.
“Labour’s claim that the next UK Government will be determined by who gets the most seats is simply untrue – it will be determined by who can command a majority in the House of Commons. If there are more anti-Tory MPs in the House of Commons than Tory MPs, we can lock David Cameron out of Downing Street. The the only circumstances in which the Tories could get back into government would be if Labour let them – the SNP never will.”
Nicola Sturgeon 16 March 2015
copy on SNP website.
Well, it seems Labour (both the Westminster Mob, and the North Branch Office) have gotten themselves into a right pickle tonight. Will Ed really be sitting back believing he’s done the right thing?.
Today, he stated that he won’t form a coalition with the SNP. Okay, fine. But did Nicola Sturgeon ever state that she wanted a coalition with Labour. The answer is No. She always stated that she would do a deal with Labour on an issue-by-issue basis. So in that sense …nothing’s changed …but for Ed, it has!
Now that Ed has played one of his major cards, the questions from the Tories won’t go away. Instead, we’ll now have the Tory attack dogs now smelling blood and realising that Ed is looking a tad weak. They will now demand that Ed tells the nation that he won’t even do a deal with the SNP on an issue-by-issue basis.
If he was to do so, then just hand the keys to No. 10 to David Cameron right now.
To break either pledge puts him in the same boat as Nick Clegg and the Libs in the last general election when the Libs broke their promise of not backing Tuition Fees. We all know what happened next once the Libs got pally with the Tories. Now the Libs are as toxic as the atmosphere on Jupiter.
And as for Ed barking at Cameron in asking him to ‘pledge’ not to get into bed with UKIP, well …no chance! Cameron is sitting pretty now. He doesn’t have to make any deal with Farage until after the election. Ed has tried to call Cameron’s bluff by showing him part of his hand. Cameron is just sitting there smiling back. Ed is probably realising tonight that his bed partners are limited, and the only ones who can save his career are the SNP (unless he jumps into bed with Cameron himself …but then it’s goodbye Labour forever!)
Meanwhile, while Labour continue to flounder in the art of telling fibs, Murphy continues to walk from one car crash to the next. The issue of drugs, and in his case, gluesniffing will haunt him as he tours Scotland. Every place he turns up, everyone will be crying ‘U-hooooo’ and waving UHU sticks at him.
As the carnage continues to happen around Ed, he will realise in the end, that his only hope of being in office for 5 years, is through the SNP.
Personally, stuff the idea of a coalition with Labour! I never really wanted to get into bed with those liars anyway. But the issue-by-issue deal, which Nicola wants as it save the SNP being tarnished by Labour still looks the sweetest deal that we can all hope for.
Ot, can anyone please tell me where to get this wings app that’s been mentioned? Someone else asked on the previous thread but I haven’t noticed a reply.
It isn’t on the home page on my screen.
Thank you
The unionist media continues to give Murphy and Labour in Scotland an easy time.
Coming soon to a post near you: “How The BBC Shreds Complaints”
A new action rant from Grouse Beater Productions, the studio that brought you, “The Adventures of Murky Murphy,” the horror movie “The Politicians Who Ate Scotland,” and the detective mystery, “Dude, where’s my Freedom?”
In BBC space no one can hear you scream…..
the Tories in England are trying to galvanise enough support in England so that scots MPs don’t have any influence . Murphy and co know this and all we see from them up here are the dying throws of a party that has no idea what to do next
Labour can not form a colilition without the support on SNP a deal was struck today hence nicola in London and Ed ruling out a colilition. This tell me one thing the Nicola and SNP are fighting for Scotland interest.
Labour can not form a colilition without the support on SNP a deal was struck today hence nicola in London and Ed ruling out a coalition this tell me one thing the SNP and nicola are fighting for Scotland interest.
I wonder… Is it possible that a deal has already been agreed between the Tories and Labour and they have already decided between them that the largest party will form the government? The next parliament is going to be so difficult anyway, the city might already be demanding political stability for economic reasons.
It’s undemocratic after all for the party with the most seats not to be in government, apparently… If an agreement has already been reached then he may not be lying, well, not this time at least
Morag – just contributed to the Wishaw fund to pay for a one way ticket to Tellytubby land for Mr Frank Roy…
In memory of Dr Robert McIntyre who saved my father’s life and inspired me to vote SNP for as long as I draw breath
Past caring who wins the election, they are both the same. Scotland needs as many SNP MPs as possible to make any difference to us.
O/T
The podcast from Nicola at LSE today is here
link to lse.ac.uk
I was privileged to shake Dr. McIntyre’s hand, at an SNP conference some years ago. He bridled slightly when I mentioned the by-election win, saying that he hoped he had achieved more than that in his life. Which of course he had, a great deal more, but he was still the SNP’s first-ever Westminster representative and that will never be forgotten.
Morag and Achnababan and no doubt others – I spent a wonderful night with Dr McIntyre and Isobel Nicholson in Plockton nearly thirty years ago – a formative experience, two of the greatest people I have ever met.
@muscleguy 7:38pm
Dammit, you’ve just encouraged me to add yet another sodding app to the phone. At least it didn’t need any other information (unlike other dodgy apps) and fired up straight away.
Nice one Stu 🙂
Has Murphy been on the glue again? 😉
You have to admit it’s a pretty ‘bold’ move having Murphy and Miliband arrogantly try to lay down the law for scottish voters considering how laughably unpopular they both are according to all the polling.
Blairites/red tories just can’t help lying.
It’s as simple as that.
Nicola/Scotland needs a close run election between Red and Blue Tory so I think Nicola has given Miliband permission to come out against a coalition which will help ease the fears of the English Labour voters.
I think Miliband is willing/happy to sacrifice the Right Wing North British Labour Troughers , he despises Murphy detests Curran and probably wants shot of the lot of them and would probably feel English Labour with the help (on a vote to vote basis) of a left of centre party like SNP could reclaim a more Social agenda.
Re the App try google play store.
I think we will see some murky shenanigans
and various forms of sneakyness.
There is more at stake than the UK here.
The Established order is under threat.
Nothing will surprise me except not
being surprised.
I’m predicting a government of national
unity!
Sorry to break the news that snp / labour working together may be all academic.
If I had to bet cash on the outcome of 2015 election the most probable outcome will be:
1/ conservative / Lib coalition continuing
less likely but still possible is an:
2/ outright conservative majority.
When middle england wakes up and has to decide between all the bribes and benefits, they will remember which side their bread is buttered.
of course my heart wants a different result and the more Scottish nationalist in Westminster the better.
o/t Tariam, I answered your post on
link to wingsoverscotland.com
So, since it has been pointed out here, in some newspapers, on the BBC, by the civil service and by full fact.org, that what Labour is saying is completely untrue, the only logical conclusion is that Labour are perfectly happy to lie to and deceive Scottish voters.
I do not doubt for one minute, that they will repeat this lie until election day. They are a party of bare faced liars.
Then they wonder why nobody wants to vote for them.
Ed Miliband, Labour leader, said there would be “no SNP ministers in any government I lead.”
Erm… strictly speaking if Salmond is returned to Westminster he won’t be an SNP government minister.
FFS will someone stop Dim Jim digging that bloody big hole.Fracking has an moratorium in Scotland at the moment.
O/T
Visit Mark Franklands’s blog
link to marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk.
Could I encourage people who still have the odd quid left to consider donating it to this crowd funding request to assist in getting rid of Mr Sarwar.
link to crowdfunder.co.uk
Having this lot refusing a formal coalition with you is like having head lice refusing to jump onto your head.
@ yabadabadoo
Stu has tweeted lots of betting related predictions – all dire for Labour – so feel free to take a look and a punt.
If, as you indicate, it all goes tits up for SNP then at least I dreamed the dream. Hope over fear, I say.
If cons and lib-deme rule again then you won’t have any cash left to bet on anything ever again.
btw, Postal votes is the biggest issue, I believe.
“We are talking to people on the doorstep explaining that whoever ends up the biggest party after the election will form the next government”, despite it having been proved beyond the tiniest shred of dispute that that’s simply not true.”
Your problem here is that, in practice, it IS true. Yes, there are umpteen possibilities but the fact of history is that the largest party (in terms of number of seats) HAS formed the government in the vast majority of elections.
garles
Followed your link but that page doesn’t exist. Must have been taken down I guess
garles
Ignore my last post. If you scroll down beyond that page does not exist message, the page you linked to is listed in the month listings
Fraid it is not true, Phil Robertson. You must know why it is not true, if you read here, or at Full Fact, or the statements by Gus McDonald, or the parliamentary rules.
Why do you persist in defending lies?
@ Sunshine 8.19 Trackbacks/Pingbacks top of the page klik on it.
I was delighted to see Nicola on Lorraine this morning and Stuart Hosie on Politics programme. Both did exceptionally well. Intelligent, informed and relaxed, despite insulting and scornful questioning for Stuart. (In their favour, he was given time to answer the question) He stayed calm and brushed it off and got his points in about Labour and Tory voting together for £30bn cuts brilliantly!
Nicola gave a thoughtful and intelligent response that I think a lot of professional women could identify with in relation to why she had not had children! Not an easy question for many women. An admirable performance from our Leader and Deputy Leader, personable, human and impressive and hopefully one which will allay the fears the MSM are trying to whip up amongst our “cousins”!
Phil Robertson
In practice its not true. There have been Governments where the largest didn’t form the Government but was formed by more than one part working to gather.
Its that bad for Labour even Tony Blairs lies are catching up wie him he,s now to be called THE SHOOGLY PEG ENVOY for MIDDLE EARTH because he,s HEE HAW anygood in the middle east.
Hi Connor McEwen.
I replied to you at this link, in another Wings page, no too far away.See my post at 8.26pm tonight.
Ach shoot – I’ll just paste it here…
.
But we have to remember that Rev Stu also indicated Wings could (will?) be involved in the May GE.
“We’ve still got cash left over in the Wings kitty and it’s only £500 for an election deposit. We think it’s about time that we put up our own candidate, either at the next available by-election or at the 2015 general election. We’re not even joking. We’re going to do it. Because it looks like ANYONE can beat the Lib Dems now.”
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Be fair, ronnie anderson. His role as professional christian and out and out peace monger was interfering with his business. Christianity is (allegedly) apt to do that, so there is nothing for it but to choose. And he chose just as I would expect. Ditch the bleeding heart stuff and get on with making money. I notice he is negotiating for another job though, so he won’t even be losing his wages.
Brian Powell
You are correct. The first ever Labour government was formed after the inconclusive General Election in 1923. Tories won 258 seats to Labour’s 191 with the Liberals on 158 and 8 others including Neddie Scrimgeour, Scottish Prohibitionist MP for Dundee.
This is getting ridiculous. They have even heard of Murphy the “phony” on Family Guy.
link to youtube.com
@ DerekM
What would happen in the event of a grand coalition is that the SNP would, presumably as the largest party not in the Government, become the Official Opposition. They would be replying to all Government ministers at QT, they would be seen speaking all the time by all 6 of the viewers to BBC Parliament, and would get even more Short money than their MP’s and vote numbers would attract to run their opposition offices. I would expect their comments to be sought on every political story, and for a representative of the party to be on every political program every week.
The Labour party would be very tainted by their association and there’s every likelihood that Holyrood would be totally dominated by non Unionists next year.
Oh, the Irish Parliamentary Party stood and had elected members for seats on the bigger island in the late 1800’s, so perhaps the SNP would garner such publicity that we could give Labour a run for their money in some southern constituencies in 2020.
Ian Davidson on 5 live news about 4 o’clock today.
SNP brought down the Labour govt in 1979 and we got the tories, SNP were in coalition with tories at Holyrood, blah blah feckin blah…
They said SNP were on after 5, did anyone hear it?
Phul Robertson – you are so silly, whoever has the votes carries the day, sweetie please get a grip.
What the bookies think ….
link to oddschecker.com
Tories will get most seats.
link to oddschecker.com
Around 4 to 1 odd that it will be either a ….
Lab minority
Con minority
Con + Lib coalition
Con majority (!)
…. Then less likely for other combinations. Fascinating predictions.
That’s a stunningly stupid observation. The entire point of the discussion is that 2015 is shaping up to be one of the unusual situations where that generalisation does not apply. Simply standing there saying “but that’s what’s usually happened in the past” is useless. Declaring that what has usually happened in the past is an immutable law governing what will happen in the future is LYING.
In the vast majority of elections, one party got an overall majority. Obviously, a party with an overall majority forms the government, so these instances tell you nothing.
In a small minority of elections, no party got an overall majority. You’re already down to such penny numbers that you’re not going to be able to generalise. But even there, it’s true that it’s likely that a party with a substantial lead over its nearest rival will succeed in forming a government. That’s again a useless observation.
What we’re looking at here is a probable situation where there isn’t much difference between the two largest parties. In that particular situation, the larger of the two parties has little if any advantage. It’s all about who can command the support of the necessary numbers from the smaller parties.
If you actually don’t understand this, go away and think about it until you do. If you do, and you’re just trolling, just go away.
Luigi says:
“JM is getting very grey these days. Must be the stress.”
He’s off the grecian 2000. Cold turkey too, what a man.
Morag says:
“it’s tonight or never.”
How could I resist those words! I gave it my all 😉
link to indiegogo.com
BTW is it just me, or is anyone else finding this whole political comedy simply hilarious?
I never thought losing could be such fun.
I think they’re trying to make us think an SNP vote will just be wasted. We *must* vote for labour. Aye right Jackie.
I see they’re looking for a national bird for Britain. I nominate Jackie.
X_sticks,
You are not alone, I am finding it hilarious and thoroughly enjoyng it.
Luigi Jackie is a great shout. Can’t see them going for a Scottish Labour Parrot though.
Just rattled in a ‘phone complaint to national 10 O’Clock News on Radio 4 when the Labour spokesperson was unchallenged when he said “The largest party forms the next government”. Pointed out that even the BBC in Scotland were challenging Labour on this point and that the BBC in Scotland rarely if ever challenge the Labour. They said they would email the interviewer and editors.
I invited them to confirm the following facts from the BBC’s own website.
1. The 1923 election result – a hung parliament :
Con 258
Lab 191
Lib 158
LABOUR FORMED THE GOVERNMENT, even though it had 67 seats less than the Tories.
2. The 2010 election result where Gordon Brown tried to form a minority administration despite having 50 less seats from the Tories.
Con 307
Lab 257
Lib 57
The BBC’s own website quotes Jim Murphy in 2010 as follows (see link to news.bbc.co.uk )
The Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy said he believed Mr Brown would be able to put together a coalition. Speaking at a post-election press conference in Glasgow he said as the sitting PM, Mr Brown had the “constitutional and moral right” to try to form a government.
However, he conceded that if David Cameron’s Tories could form a government, they would have a mandate to rule in Scotland – despite only having one MP from north of the border.
Mr Murphy added: “No-one won this election absolutely. Let’s see what happens in whatever coalition talks are taking place.”
Just seen headlines of daily record for Tuesday,milliband in his “vow ” claptrap.This seems like groundhog day.From now until May 7th Labour party’s mantra will be “vote SNP get a Tory government”.It doesn’t really concern the Labour party that they are telling lies,they are now at the point of no return,what concerns me though is will the “silent “majority”who voted NO in the referendum believe this ? the silent majority in Scotland are not politically engaged enough to find out the consequences of a hung parliament etc.Sorry to say this but the silent majority vote Labour whatever the circumstances,they read the Daily Record,and Sunday Post etc,watch BBC Scotland news.The Labour party know this,all they will do is keep telling lies,distract and confuse people in the hope they will stick to the same old ,same old.(is vote Labour).I really do hope I am wrong but beginning to get a feeling of deja vu ,its like the run up to Sept 18th all over again.Will the people of Scotland fall for this again? We shall see on May 7th.
The British national bird.
I noted, with a modicum of amusement, that the Golden Eagle didn’t even get a mention…
On Scotland 2015 Gary Robertson gave Jim Murphy an easy ride over largest Party forms the government mantra. A very weak performance and scared to really challenge Murphy and only half heartedly corrected Murphy’s big lie.
@Paula Rose says:
Phul Robertson – you are so silly, whoever has the votes carries the day, sweetie please get a grip.
He used to work on the ‘Pic&Mix’ counter at Woolies.
It’s got to be the Dodo
How about a Kookaburra?
How about a Kookaburra?
Just watched Scotland 2015 and Murphy trotted out a new mantra that the SNP want to get rid of the Barnett Formula
Murphy added that it would cost Scottish families £ 800 a head
Have I somehow slipped into a parallel universe? When did the SNP announce this as policy?
Or as I suspect Labour are screwing with the Scottish people and repeating a lie
Morag, the wife (Brenda) has prohibited further contributions to wings now that it has gone over £100k and given that it is so close to the election and candidates need money NOW.
She has issued instructions that our second £250 is go to fundraisers that are struggling to meet their funding targets. We are to make do with one wings badge between us ): .
We tried your one (8 hours to go) BUT NO PAYPAL – why not?
We will now be looking for other struggling fundraisers.
@Edward 11.04 Labour also said that the SNP wants to get rid of the Barnett Formula on BBC radio 4 10pm news tonight
I forgot to complain on that one as I was too focused on complaining about “the largest party forms . . . .”
Am kicking myself – should one ‘phone twice in one night?
‘The SNP are proposing cuts in Scotland of £4 Billion pa in public spending by getting rid of the Barnett Formula’
The National front page.
link to twitter.com
Brian it’s a farce. There is no nation called the UK. I believe Scotland’s national bird is the Golden Eagle anyway.
Just watched Scotland 2015,
What a weed that interviewer is, did not know how to answer J Murphy when he asked ” how many governments have been formed by not having the largest party, he, the interviewer did not even have the official answer to that, Christ!, no wonder owner blood boils.
Are the B.B.C. purposely doing this?.
CE, I agree with you about the PayPal thing. It’s the reason I didn’t contribute to that fundraiser myself until this evening, when I made a point of having my card to hand.
I persuaded two other fundraisers (Calum Kerr’s and the Plaid Llanelli one) to add PayPal to their appeals when they didn’t originally include it, and they said it made a significant difference.
Unfortunately I’m not in touch with the people running the Motherwell and Wishaw one, or I would have said something to them before now. They don’t seem to be punting it themselves, that I’ve noticed. I’d just like to see it do better for old times sake (I come from Wishaw myself), and because of Robert McIntyre.
But no, they’re not making it easy for people.
Please repeatedly ask Labour this simple question…
Say the election results are:
Tory: 291 seats
Labour: 289 seats
SNP: 40 seats
LibDems: 20 seats
Others: 10 seats
Who do you think would form the Government in this case?
…
They either say
“Tory” and admit to preferring a Tory government to a supply/demand arrangement with the SNP,
or “Labour” and admit their “biggest party forms Government” line is a lie…
P.S. To my last post,
I got the impression that Steuart Hosie (spelling ?) did not have the opportunity to see/listen to Murphys interview, otherwise I think he would have commented on some of Murphys points/lies!.
A national bird for britain ah hiv two nominations
PEEHEN & SHITEHAWK
Ok I,ll fly the coop.
On Newsnight just now revelations about police/establishment cover-up of child-abuse/paedo-ring which included Cyril Smith and other prominent Establishment figures. Like many others in the Independence movement I’d prefer Scotland to disconnect from the long-standing institutionalised corruption that eminates from Westminster.
Perhaps Phil Robertson can put us all right on this one?
Obviously if we had full fiscal autonomy there would be no Barnett formula. That, I think, is what Murphy is on about. We’d have a much more favourable settlement, so we wouldn’t need it.
It’s another lie-with-a-grain-of-twisted-truth, like the one about the largest party forming the government, and the one about the SNP being in coalition with the Tories in the 2007-11 parliament. (Actually there isn’t any grain of truth in that last one at all, but they sort of pretend there is.)
I think they have a wee dirty-tricks-and-damn-lies department dedicated to thinking up these wheezes. Just enough of a fig leaf for them to kid on to themselves they’re not lying. And then they punt the lie for all it’s worth.
Any competent journalist should be able to fillet them. None of these in the MSM unfortunately.
@ Big Jock an whit aboot the Capercaillie,jist because few people see it, it still excists.
An the bands ney sey bad either boom boom.
Edward:
“Just watched Scotland 2015,
What a weed that interviewer is, did not know how to answer J Murphy when he asked ” how many governments have been formed by not having the largest party, he, the interviewer did not even have the official answer to that, Christ!, no wonder owner blood boils.
Are the B.B.C. purposely doing this?.”
Newsnight from London was even worse. Murphy must have said about five times that the largest party forms the Government.
His interviewer was the notorious bitter anti-SNP unionist Kirsty Wark who never even attempted to challemge him on it.
Of course the BBC are deliberately doing this-they are institutionally unionist, and therefore do not even have to instruct the likes of Wark to give Murphy a virtually uninterrupted platform.
Why would she not help Murphy, she is on his side!
Thedogphilosopher,
They’re intent on spending £3,000,000,000 plus on refurbishing the paedo sanctuary.The cesspit of sleeze and corruption that is Westminster.
Alabaman – I would say that Stewart Hosie’s interview was pre-recorded before the Murphy studio interview.
This is due to the sudden studio change where there was no seat where Murphy was.(you will notice no seat opposite the BBC guy when Stewart Hosie is interviewed)
So explains why Stewart Hosie wasn’t aware of what Murphy spouted
DimJim on newsnight, the Barnet Formula,s the GLUE what hold Scotland /England together.
He canny leave well alain. He,s stuck in ah rut whit GLUE did he uas lol.
Ben Donald. No it’s not the same as it’s actually easier to get ‘Hell to Freeze Over’ than to stop SLAB from lying.
Auld Rock
Kirsty Wart not only allowed Murphy to get away with the biggest party lie she also allowed him to say,three times,that the SNP wished to abolish the Barnet Formula and even allowed him to repeat the 1979 myth .
Short of independence I have never heard the SNP say they wished to end the Barnett Formula!
davidb says:
16 March, 2015 at 10:13 pm
@ DerekM
What would happen in the event of a grand coalition
If they opt for a Grand Coalition, it would be foolish to leave the SNP as the official opposition. In this scenario I would expect something akin to the “Coupon” election in 1918. They would form a coalition using only some Labour, Tory and possibly Liberals to form a Government while leaving a large enough rump from at least one party that would be larger in number that the SNP. If they are desperate enough to form a Grand Coalition they would have to go the whole way. It would be a de facto one party state, but that has been true since Blair.
e.g
Nat Con 200
Nat Lab 200 Pro EU Coalition 400
Tory ___ 90 Eurosceptic Opposition 90
Ind Lab_ 80
SNP ____ 50
NI _____ 18
Oth ____ 12
Your problem, Phil Robertson is that you are a moron.
Milliband is Donald ducked no matter what he does.
Deal with the tories. Labour destroyed.
Don’t deal with the tories, but allow them back in by
refusing to deal with anyone else. Labour destroyed.
Deal with the SNP. Labour destroyed, the right wing
unionist press will see to that.
This assumes that the SNP have the required seats to
give him a majority on a confidence and supply situation.
Plus if he chooses either of the first two options he is
committing political suicide, he will not be leader of the
labour party as the knives will be out for him.
A confidence and supply arrangement is his only option
as this would buy him some time.
He has allowed himself to be painted into a corner by
the Eton posh boy Cameron.
Lets look at a hypothetical, but a not unlikely scenario.
Lib dems wiped out, Clegg gone. Labour hold a tiny
lead over the tories, Cameron gone. Labour have the
most seats which according to the lies spewing from
Jim Murphy’s mouth, among others, means they get to
form the next Government. Only they don’t, they need
help from enough mps from other parties to form a
Government.
Which brings us back to the original choices, either
Ed Milliband deals with the SNP or he allows the
tories to get back in, even although his party, the
Labour party have the most seats.
Good going Ed ya muppet. And you too Phil.
It’s as if Murphy is turning every broadcasting opportunity into an official anti-SNP broadcast. He talked all over Robertson and Wark in order to complete his SNP BAD checklist.
He seems to think he’s on a some big gameshow where the star prize, if he completes his checklist on time, is a two-week stay at a glue factory.
Murphy just repeated the same lie ad naseum on Newsnight. Needless to say he wasn’t challenged on that or anything else by Kirsty Wark during what was effectively a party-political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party. The BBC is so corrupt now that it doesn’t even try to disguise it any more. Broadcasters like Ms Wark have given up any pretence of balanced professional coverage of Scottish politics.
I’m still rooting for the Labour Party’s missing monkeys
They’ll definitely be hung, unlike the Smurph, who should be
Such an awful liar of a man, win lose or draw the Scottish public are never going to forgive this man ever, just like his boss Tony Blair
When you’re found out in Scotland you’re found out for good
no coming back sonny boy
Murphy will be a dead parrot a(fill in as required)
no i’m not going to do it, too tempting
Do the BBC and the Labour Party both have some kind of institutional mental illness?
They seem completely unable to say the sentence “that’s not true, where there is no single party majority, ANY combination of parties who can command a majority between them can form a government” (or words to that effect – I know it’s not quite as simple as that).
Kirsty Wark just sat there, and said NOT A WORD when Mr Murphy repeated the same cr*p. Granted he talked over her when she sounded like she might contradict him, but she had plenty of other opportunities to say it in the gaps in his droning monologue – and she still didn’t say it. James Cook did the same thing, he stuttered his way through Mr Murphy’s interruptions as if he was going to contradict him, but the actual words never came out.
Both those presenters know how it works, as we all do!
They were there in 2010 when Gordon Brown held last ditch talks aimed at making a ‘rainbow’ coalition. If the biggest party wins regardless, then that would never have happened and they can hardly be forgiven for forgetting that – it was only the last General Election FFS.
Have the BBC and Labour been practising some kind of mind control experiments on their employees so they are physically unable to tell the truth?
Famous15@11.42 – totally agree.
I cant really watch Murphy without seeing Greg Moodies version of him with the crazy eyes – that cartoonist observes well.
Murphy squawking Barnett- the Slabbers are so desperate, that this is obviously the latest missive.
When I was at a hustings on International Womens Day, Gregg McClymont pointed to our PPC – Stuart MacDonald, in a very theatrical way, and shouted at us “This man wants to get rid of Barnett”.
A most nauseating preview of this weeks mantra.
A wee request….. can you not put Mr Murphy’s face on so many posts? I keep having to scroll down so I can’t see it!
O/T
Ok I just watched the film, ‘Europa One’. Now, might bbc, slab and such people in control of the tripe they spout on a daily, almost hourly basis, be from another planet? Cos I am beginning to think we have actually been invaded by aliens even though it wasn’t a yes victory last September.
Ah wee song fur the hard to shift Labourites
It should be stuck with DIMJIM, but ah canny be bothered re -wording anither DimJim
.
link to lse.ac.uk
BTW, I think there has been a shuffle at PQ, Mr Cook doesn’t appear to be doing politics anymore.
Wonder if they will involve him in the GE coverage. He did make one or two rebellious remarks, and he just recently put a Labour councillor in his place on Twitter, so I wonder if he has been moved?
@ neil bruce
That’s a really good point you make at the end. Labour better be careful what they wish for (although it only seems to be Labour MPs in Scotland who are saying it).
It looks unlikely, but is not inconceivable that Labour do end up being the biggest party but there aren’t enough Labour + SNP MPs to add up to a majority. The Tories could then do a deal with LibDems and others and form a government, even though they aren’t the biggest party. Ironically, that scenario becomes more likely if Labour (or Tories/Lib Dems) take Scottish seats from the SNP rather than winning extra seats in England/Wales.
Can you imagine the tantrums Jim Murphy would throw – “But we’re the biggest party, we get to form the government! It’s my ball and I’m no playing! …. What!, what do you mean you’ve got another ball!, You need my ball, I’m the biggest dog in the park! F*&k Off, F*%k Off, F%$k Off”
I genuinely hope that doesn’t happen, but it would be funny….
Regarding the Murphy video above which is linked to via Youtube.
While I note the comments section on Youtube is disabled – it is entirely possible to report the video to Youtube for investigation and possible take down.
After the proven lie he spouted I felt compelled to log my complaint on Youtube under under the the official Youtube heading of “Spam or misleading > Scams/fraud”
(found on the “…more” drop down button under the video)
Perhaps if there are enough complaints we might see some positive action and consign this video to the bin where it belongs…
Do the BBC and the Labour Party both have some kind of institutional mental illness?
Got a complaint for the BBC?
For all the good it will do better stuffing it up the chimney for Santa Claus:
link to wp.me
Even were it true (its not) that Scotland can’t go it alone, can’t we try a union with somebody else? Catalonia is pretty cool. Hey, at least they don’t hate us. I would be willing to give it a go.
Populations are not too different. Nothing in the union rule book that says you have to share a land border or else Northern Ireland would not be in the UK.
It ain’t worked out so mibbe we should see other people. Unionism and nationalism are not opposites. We could be Better Together, just together with somebody different. Someone who loves us.
Goodnight Wingers. Love to all
Apologies, I said James Cook in my earlier post, should have been David Henderson. I was trying not to look at the tele in case I caught Jim Murphy’s face!
Mr Murphy…it doesn’t matter who is the next PM. Red Tory? Blue Tory? Your parties promise the same cuts, the same austerity. You are THE SAME.
Scotland NEEDS members of the Commons that stand up for Scotland, even if they are not in government – not turncoats with weasel words who were quite prepared to put narrow Westminster Labour Party interests before those of the country of their birth in the referendum.
You’ve committed the cardinal sin in Scottish politics – you sold us out for a seat in the Lords and a ministerial car. You’ve shot your goose, Mr Murphy and there is no going back.
I’m an SNP voter but it really pains me to see the party of the working man and woman…the party that created the Welfare State…reduced to this empty shell that it has become.
Labour, you stand for no-one now but yourselves. You seek power for its own sake. You are worse than the Tories.
The Tories are unionists who stood for the union in the referendum despite the fact that it would most likely benefit them in Westminster if Scotland left. They believe in the union. Fair enough, even if I don’t agree.
But Labour, you believe in NOTHING now but power and the getting of it. You are empty. And you are finished.
Tommorrow and Tomorrow and tomorrow
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time.
And all our yesterdays have guided fools the way to dusty death.
Out, out, brief candle
Life’s but a walking shadow:
A poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more.
It is a tale told by an idiot,
Full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing.
(William Shakespeare, Macbeth)
Goodnight, Mr Murphy. RIP Labour.
Regarding last nights” Scotland 15″,
We all know that the “murph” lies, BUT the public at large do not, and that’s where the danger lays.
It has to be brought to the publics attention, via the t.v., as well as the printed press, just how dishonest Labour are, and the only ones who are powerful enough to demand that is the S.N.P. itself!.
Gus O’Donnell also raised the question of what is meant by the “largest party” asking whether that is by number of seats or percentage of the vote.
Why does nobody ask “Would a Conservative administration survive a confidence vote?”
Isn’t this the lance for the boil? Am I missing something?
[…] Alert readers will have to decide for themselves whether bravado or sheer desperation is to blame, but Scottish Labour just can’t seem to stop themselves from lying to the people of Scotland about the formation of the next government. […]
Fiona says:
16 March, 2015 at 9:48 pm
Fraid it is not true, Phil Robertson.
O.K. Tell me when the largest party did not form the government after a Westminster election.
“…until Labour stops lying”. An admirable mission statement but I think you’ve bitten off more than you can chew. You’ll still be here on the 12th of Never!
@ Phil Robertson
It has already been pointed out to you that in most elections the largest party has an overall majority. There is no question that they will form the government in those circumstances. To pretend that any of them are relevant to this discussion is not sensible
So far as I am aware, that leaves 3 elections where a government was formed without an overall majority, since universal suffrage was implemented: 1929; Feb 1974; and 2010. It is true that in all three cases the largest party formed the government, but it is not enough to establish the point that the Labour party are trying to make. They know that fine, which is why they conveniently do not mention the fact that there are only three when they talk of this issue and try to pretend that it can be demonstrated over many decades.
The rules are clear: the practical effect is clear (not least because of the second election in 1974); and the lie by implicature is also clear.
But, as Jim Murphy would say, you know that as well as I do.
@ Phil Robertson
“Past performance is not an indicator of future results”
Just because something hasn’t happened in the past three examples, doesn’t mean it can’t happen in the future.
It COULD have happened in 2010 (hopefully you can remember that far back). As many have already noted on here, many times, Gordon Brown tried to bring together a Labour coalition when they were NOT the biggest party in terms of seats. It was perfectly legitimate for him to do that and is well documented in case you really have forgotten (were you on holiday during the long weekend in May 2010 when we didn’t know which party was going to form the new government?).
He had the ‘right’ to the first attempt to pull together a government because he was the incumbent prime minister and no-one had a clear majority. It had nothing to do with how many seats Labour had. On that occasion, he failed, because the Lib Dems decided to go with the Tories instead (probably in part because of the number of other parties needed to create a coalition with Labour). But the point is, he could have succeeded and the Tories as the party with the most seats would NOT have formed the government.
So if you want an example of when the largest party didn’t form the government, you only have to look back 5 years to find the next best thing 🙂