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Wings Over Scotland

The Road Not Taken

Posted on February 18, 2023 by

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0 to “The Road Not Taken”

  1. SaorsaCat says:


  2. Willie says:

    Good cartoon. Good comparison.

    The right hand side road brings into sharp focus here Sturgeon was leading us.

    But she’s going now, and difficult as it may be, the other road now opens before us.

    Independence is ours to take and we just need to all get on the right road.

  3. SteepBrae says:

    “To the left – quick march!”

  4. William Habib Steele says:


  5. SteepBrae says:

    But what is still blocking the sunny road ahead?

    “I am still desperate for that fresh start, to begin again. If this is what it looks like, if this is what Sturgeon thinks ‘getting out of the way and letting the party find its own direction’ looks like, then I despair, because we’re not getting a chance for a fresh start”.

    Robin McAlpine 17.2.23 Stop Murrell’s Corruption Now.

  6. robertkknight says:

    Sad but true…

  7. Sean says:

    Took the path to Gender Woo Woods

  8. Morgatron says:

    Brilliant Chris. For so many years we have been taken up that path.

  9. Geoff Anderson says:

    Good….but a canoe, a shitty creek and missing paddle may have been more accurate

  10. Mike says:

    Would have loved a wee Paddington bear with her

  11. Beauvais says:

    Which of these two roads would the Scottish Greens prefer?

  12. sarah says:

    Very good, Chris. In fact there are signs of hope – how clearly appealing the left hand path looks, and the blame for the non-independence route is squarely on that figure trudging away. Excellent. Now we can move on.

  13. Peter says:

    Well done, Chris. One of your very best.

  14. Breeks says:

    Class cartoon as always Chris.

    Aye, that fateful fork in the road…

    Had Sturgeon simply underpinned Scotland’s emphatic rejection of Brexit with the constitutional sovereignty of the Claim of Right, she could then have stood back to watch the Treaty of Union implode upon itself.

    A Brexit going ahead meant Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation. That alone should have halted Brexit.

    A Brexit halted meant Scotland having a sovereign veto over the UK and Scotland could effectively subjugate England.

    A split Brexit going ahead for England but not for Scotland, (like NI) violates the Articles of Union.

    There was no way out for Westminster. Scotland was free! With a Scottish Backstop underpinned by the Claim of Right, ALL Sturgeon had to do was NOT capitulate. But as we know, all Sturgeon did was capitulate.

    She held every Ace in the deck… and folded.

    Scotland could have been, should have been, Independent in 2016, but the SNP were utterly feckless and / or corrupt, and threw away a victory which most of them didn’t even know they had won. How Scotland’s soul wept.

    We shouldn’t be wasting time choosing which one of these jokers should lead us, we should really be choosing which ones to put in jail, … and whether it’s the guillotine or the oubliette for the SNP… because they’ve learned NOTHING, and the same infuriating hubris still blinds their path to redemption and reconciliation.

    Hell mend them.

  15. Big Jock says:

    The Road Not Taken
    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
    And sorry I could not travel both
    And be one traveler, long I stood
    And looked down one as far as I could
    To where it bent in the undergrowth;

    Then took the other, as just as fair,
    And having perhaps the better claim,
    Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
    Though as for that the passing there
    Had worn them really about the same,

    And both that morning equally lay
    In leaves no step had trodden black.
    Oh, I kept the first for another day!
    Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
    I doubted if I should ever come back.

    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

  16. Graf Midgehunter says:

    The toon fits my mood today,Indy is there to win but NS is determined to avoid it.

    BTW, who is Robert frost?

  17. Tartan Tory says:

    The only thing missing down that grubby path is the depiction of they/them cheering her from the side-lines and clutching their party membership cards.

  18. Dorothy Devine says:

    Looks like a different path from this woman ,Mary Lou MacDonald.

    Northern Ireland: ‘Unconscionable’ that strike action is looming – Sinn Fein leader – she wasn’t condemning the strikes but the UK governments intransigence.

    Find her interview on youtube – a brilliant woman!

  19. Ron Clark says:

    In 2014 I just couldn’t understand why the No Voters didn’t “get it”

    In 2023 I find myself asking the Surgeon/SNP fanatics the exact same question, why don’t they “get it”?

  20. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Thanks to Big Jock I now know. 🙂

  21. Tinto Chiel says:

    Since we’re being poetical this morning, it’s just like the start of Dante’s Inferno, with Nicola leading us “astray in a dark wood”.

    No broad, sunlit uplands for us…….

    Thanks for an image which says so much, Chris.

  22. Kenny says:

    Whit’s fur ye will no’ go by ye.

    Good riddance to bad rubbish. She called it.

    Nailed it, Chris

  23. The Isolator says:

    Stunning Chris. Special shout out to Big Jock as well. Thank you.

  24. SusanAHF says:

    Clever cartoon Chris and so apt

  25. Breeks says:

    Independence is not lost people.

    The difference between Holyrood’s route to Independence and the Constitutional “Claim of Right” route to Independence is the same difference between a BBC soap opera, and real life.

    If Sturgeons stupidity truncated the powers of Holyrood, what use is Holyrood to us if it merely the dutiful servant of the 1998 Scotland Act?

    People STILL aren’t seeing the rabbit here.

    The power to remove Scotland from the Union does not reside in Holyrood, nor does it reside in London. The power is here, in Scotland, in our own heads.

    While helpful to have one certainly, we don’t necessarily need a democratic mandate to end the Union because there is a parallel path to discredit the Union if the contract, the Treaty of Union, has been breached, and YES, it very much has!

    Democracy is not a prerequisite of Constitutional Sovereignty, but we’re not abandoning democracy if the Constitutional “Claim of Right” route to Independence is subjected to a ratification Plebiscite.

    The SNP has only crashed the stalking horse for Independence.

    The real deal for Independence is the battle for Constitutional Sovereignty, and that battle has only recently begun. It wasn’t started by politicians, but SALVO, and a long misunderstood Claim of Right which can now be reinterpreted after new and forgotten information has been rediscovered.

    The Claim of Right isn’t a vestigial token of what once was. It isn’t a thing Westminster “concedes” to keep us “Jocks” quiet.

    The Claim of Right is that wee tip of an artefact which gives the archaeologist the inspiration to dig a wee bit deeper and find more. Dig deeper. Find more. Dig deeper. Find more…

    SALVO is uncovering how the Claim of Right actually worked, how it kept absolute power from some, and held power in check for the Common Good of the people. Ultimately the people, the Community of the Realm, are sovereign. This is the law.

    Do nor despair Scotland. The fight for Independence is as strong as it ever was, it just isn’t the fight Westminster has conditioned us to expect.

    Apprise yourselves of what SALVO is planning. Keep watching, and be ready.

  26. Luigi says:

    Sigh. What a sad image. Imagine how it could have been if the FM had worked with Salvo? It would have been unstoppable IMO. Sadly, not to be. She probably thought concentrating on the “other stuff” was the safer option. How did that work out, Nicola? Well now we move on, we move on without you, but we move on. What a waste.

  27. Cenchos says:

    Could/would Westminster, even if it wanted to, allow Scotland to become independent, against the wishes of the USA?

  28. Dramfineday says:

    Brilliant – sad – but brilliant.

  29. Tenruh says:

    Chris superb, hope you don’t mind me using it for my fb page

  30. gregor says:

    Courier (17/02/2023): SNP ‘may be forced to wait until 2026 Holyrood election for de facto referendum’ after Nicola Sturgeon resignation:

    “…Mr Wishart: “I’m concerned that with the delay, the option of using a Westminster election as a de facto referendum is starting to die.

    “You need at least a year to organise properly and I think we’re all expecting a General Election possibly in spring next year. …It just kicks it further down…”:

  31. Alf Baird says:

    Leeberation gate or anither blin close! Thon’s the chice richt eneuch.

    Sturgeon’s gang makkit thair chice, takin Scots up a blin close. Thay nivver haed the courage tae reclaim Scotlan’s soveranety. Sae faur an nae forder. Joukers aw!

    Scots hae want o a naitional leeberator, no anither soond-bitey chief o a compromised Breetish-stylie poleetical pairty. We’ll no fund a leeberator amang the maist pampert pairts o colonial society.

  32. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    A stark cartoon Chris! And thanks to Big Jock for the poem that inspired it.

    For those seeking info on Ash Regan (Denham)…

  33. Donibristle says:

    says it all, and expresses how I’ve felt for years… What a waste of time she is, was and probably always will be. Although with her lack of recall this wont be the way she remembers it !!!

  34. gregor says:


    “Done against your wishes.”

    “Forced repatriation.”

  35. Andrew scott says:

    No dictionary rquired

  36. Ron Clark says:


    For a right up to date sketch, you could have had Ash Regan walking along in the left hand side.

  37. Maureen says:

    And look at what you could have won! Lets make sure the next fm isn’t led down the same path.

  38. Liz says:

    Excellent Chris.
    Sturgeon cuts a lonely lost figure.
    I believe that’s what she is.
    She seems to have few close friends.
    She said Alex S was her closest political friend – think on that.

    What she had was sycophantic supporters hoping to get a leg up the ladder.

    On the previous page, Sturgeon was praising Devi Shridhars book about Covid.
    No surprise there as Devi is one of the young globalists pushed by the WEF.
    The stuff coming out about Covid policy, particularly in the US, is going to be explosive.

    Already some sacked twitter execs appearing before a senate investigation accused of breaking the 1st amendment.

  39. Confounder says:

    It’s a good cartoon but, if you think independence is going to be the sunlit uplands, I think you are going to have a rude awakening.

  40. TheSNPLeftMe says:

    Anyone got details of polling data that claims Labour just 2 points behind the SNP. I am not surprised that the SNP vote is falling, but switching to Labour seems unlikely.

  41. Breeks, yir right, in 2016 ah we had tae say wiz, we’re naw goin.

  42. John Main says:

    @Breeks 8:46

    I don’t know why it falls to me to tell you you are writing mince. Maybes there is a convention on here to be kind to the deluded?

    There never was a route that would have allowed Scotland to stay in the EU while England departed, not unless the entire Scottish EU membership T’s and C’s were negotiated from scratch. Once these had been (or have been, if this happens in the future, post Indy) negotiated, we sovereign Scots may or may not choose to vote to dissolve Scotland in the EU. I don’t know if we will – nobody does – cos we don’t know what Scottish membership of the EU will cost us Scots in terms of hard cash and in terms of lost sovereignty.

    As for your delusion that Scotland should have been independent in 2016, what was Indy support flatlined at then? 45%? Get a grip.

    It has to be pointed out that this Sovereign Scots “weapon” cuts both ways. If a majority of us Sovereign Scots don’t want Indy, then I am certain the minority won’t be forcing Indy on the majority.

    Soz, Breeks.

    But don’t despair. The simple, in all of our faces, bleeding obvious sunlit route to Indy remains just as clearly signposted and unobstructed as it ever was.

    Competent and coherent government, by rational and ethical politicians, proving that with our support, they have what it takes to stick two fingers up at WM and run an independent, first-world, Scotland.

    Who among the current FM contenders is competent, coherent, rational and ethical?

  43. Grafmidghunter@8.50
    Robert Frost is a great 20th century American poet. I love the poem quoted but have derived strength from the last verse of Stopping by woods on a snowy evening.

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  44. Viscount Ennui says:

    “This shameful tale”!!!!!

    The Castle

    All through that summer at ease we lay,
    And daily from the turret wall
    We watched the mowers in the hay
    And the enemy half a mile away
    They seemed no threat to us at all.

    For what, we thought, had we to fear
    With our arms and provender, load on load,
    Our towering battlements, tier on tier,
    And friendly allies drawing near
    On every leafy summer road.

    Our gates were strong, our walls were thick,
    So smooth and high, no man could win
    A foothold there, no clever trick
    Could take us, have us dead or quick.
    Only a bird could have got in.

    What could they offer us for bait?
    Our captain was brave and we were true….
    There was a little private gate,
    A little wicked wicket gate.
    The wizened warder let them through.

    Oh then our maze of tunneled stone
    Grew thin and treacherous as air.
    The cause was lost without a groan,
    The famous citadel overthrown,
    And all its secret galleries bare.

    How can this shameful tale be told?
    I will maintain until my death
    We could do nothing, being sold;
    Our only enemy was gold,
    And we had no arms to fight it with.

    Edwin Muir

  45. 100%Yes says:

    She left the scene with the biggest smirk on her face.

  46. Mac says:

    Looking on a few other sites it seems the Nycophant Loyal most definitely are going through the five stages of grief.

    Looks like we have passed Denial and are firmly into Anger…

    I honestly don’t think Nicola Sturgeon could have been worse, she was shocking as FM. It is just a catalogue of failure. One after another to the point you realize it must be deliberate.

    Look at what she was gifted – 56 seats out of 59 and hydro full of adoring fans.

    Look what she leaves behind – the SNP has been gutted, a talent wasteland, independence totally stymied, support for yes flat lining at the same level it was nine years ago, whacko domestic policies, an absolute mess everywhere you look…

    This is not then end of it. I think there are scandals brewing that will drag the SNP’s (and sadly the independence movement’s) name right through the shit. I think this endgame is a big reason for why she was so keen to fill the party with perverts and weirdos in the first place.

    Imagine if there was some paedophile scandal or something of that nature. Seeing what they did to Salmond I would not put anything past them at this point.

    Sturgeon was beyond bad, she was a poison pill, and I think there is more damage to manifest as a result.

    With every passing day Sturgeon’s record will be seen more and more for what it was, a betrayal. Her record is truly appalling.

    And then you have the astonishingly vile attempted stitch-up of Alex Salmond that sits like a giant stinking cherry-turd on top of the huge dungheap of her oops-I-did-it-again failures.

  47. Graeme George says:

    ‘She said Alex S was her closest political friend – think on that’

    I’ve thought about that a lot Liz and I still can’t get my head around what kind of twisted evil bastard do you have to be to do what she done to someone she calls a friend.

  48. Big Jock says:

    Remember. The MSM are bigging up Sturgeon for one reason. They want to push the narrative that independence all depended on her leadership. In part its wishful thinking , with a sprinkling of cognitive dissonence. But their true aim is to make yes voters downbeat about our prospects.

    But we all know that independence actually depended on getting gid of Sturgeon. The polar opposite of the narrative. Don’t let the bastards grind you down.

  49. robbo says:

    Confounder says:
    18 February, 2023 at 11:07 am
    It’s a good cartoon but, if you think independence is going to be the sunlit uplands, I think you are going to have a rude awakening.


    Well. Maybe you can tell us when it was ever the sunlit uplands in this so-called voluntary union smarty pants?

  50. Graeme George says:

    Confounder says:
    18 February, 2023 at 11:07 am
    ‘It’s a good cartoon but, if you think independence is going to be the sunlit uplands, I think you are going to have a rude awakening.’

    Probably one of the most shallow ignorant statements I’ve ever seen posted on here

  51. Big Jock says:

    Mac. The big question for any former leader.Did you leave the country in a better position than when you took over.

    That is an emphatic NO! We know she is a foney, a proven liar and a fantacist. Let the media pretend otherwise.

  52. mark says:

    No one can take you to independence – not Salmond, not Sturgeon, not a re-born Jesus Christ, and not any new leader – because you do not have even 50% support in the country. To blame it all on Sturgeon is ridiculous. Your dream is already over.

  53. Astonished says:

    Great cartoon. Sturgeon leading us all away from independence. And she did it deliberately. There is no joy in discovering the extent of her betrayal.

    Hopefully, she is gone for good. But, I am certain she is already plotting to return.

    “Sturgeon was a great boon to the unionists. Whether as useful idiot or as ("Tractor" - Ed) is something history will decide. My money is on the latter.” – Craig Murray

    I agree with Craig on this. Sturgeon will be reviled in Scotland by everyone. Even her present enablers.

    She plotted relentlessly to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Good Riddance.

  54. Wilson McBride says:

    Big Jock 12.02pm

    If it is going to be Kate Forbes, then how about a Kate Forbes First Minister, with Ash Regan as Deputy?

    I would say that is about as good as we can hope for.

    And possibly a vote winner if these two brought together all independence supporting Parties.

  55. Jontoscots21 says:

    SNP taking beard George Kerevan talking about a joint ticket between Kate Forbes and Ash Regan. He also highlights the fact that this might lead to a split with the Greens. I can see a lot of SNP non woke voters relishing that. Forbes is of course young but unlike the other low wattage wannabes she is very bright. The youth cult will detest her and most mainstream members will When the talent pool is a puddle with Keith Brown seen as a safe pair of hands, that might be the worst bad option.

  56. Republicofscotland says:

    I don’t think Forbes or Regan will make a blind bit of difference as leader of the SNP, okay Regan gained a wee bit of credibility with regards to the unamended GRRB, whilst Forbes failed to vote against it.

    Neither candidate has stood up and been counted on independence for years, at a time when we needed them most, no in my opinion the SNP cannot be saved with the current crop of SNP MSPs and MPs (bar one or two) that are in office, and as Robin McAlpine pointed out in his excellent article the SNP’s NEC can change the rules and make them up as they go along.

    Why risk voting for the SNP when we have a indy party in the shape of Alba, yes it will take time for Alba to reach the top, but voting for the SNP whilst the same damaged characters are in office would set us back even further.

  57. Wilson McBride says:

    Sturgeon on the,

    “Highway to Hell”.

  58. gregor says:


    “To show something clearly, through signs or actions.”

    “The workers chose to manifest their dissatisfaction in a series of strikes.”

    “And this is because the community manifests equal concern, and the rule is integral in defining rights and roles in the community.”

    “Revulsion to dismemberment (or to creating a member where there was none, as it were) further manifests itself in debates over the acceptability of transsexuals.”

  59. One_Scot says:

    That really does hit home quite hard. 🙁

  60. Ottomanboi says:

    Democracy is not conformist, it is restive, pugnacious and argumentative.
    Democracy does not sit on its fat arse in cosy assemblies thinking up hair brain schemes to fill the day.
    Of that kind of democracy, Scotland, and the world, has had its nauseating fill.
    Scotland needs a young lion not afraid to scratch, bite and roar.

  61. John Main says:

    @Graeme George says:18 February, 2023 at 12:12 pm

    Probably one of the most shallow ignorant statements I’ve ever seen posted on here

    BS! Compared with some of the howlers I have seen, that comment is a balanced, realistic statement of fact.

    For example, just today, I noticed a poster thanking God we Scots don’t allow religion in our politics (TBH, that is probably a wind up, but some doubt remains). Leaving aside the traditional religious aspects, what is religion but a faith-based belief system, with no factual underpinning? And what is the belief that sex is mutable, if not a faith-based belief system, with no factual underpinning? Most of our political establishment has been “doing religion” for the past year, to the exclusion of all else.

    And again today, somebody was bigging up one of the FM contenders, as a result of AS’s recommendation.

    That’s the same AS who so brilliantly engineered the last contender for FM, incase you are in any doubt.

  62. Gregory Beekman says:

    Heading out, but one quick post.

    Rev – thanks for replying on previous post.

    The fact that Sturgeon was doing nothing for independence except the damp squid of turning a Westminster election into a de facto referendum that no one would take any notice of shows that this was the correct time for her to go (before the special conference rubber stamped her idea).

    So Sturgeon going is a good thing but, in my humble opinion, going now was the best thing she could have done for the indy cause.

    Anyway, that’s my tuppence worth (you may say it’s worth less, lol!).

    Vote Alba.



  63. Al Harron says:

    God, that’s devastating. Compare & contrast to the beautiful one of her predecessor riding off into the sunset. If only we knew, eh?

  64. Ebok says:

    Great cartoon Chris.

    The only thing missing was her shadow: who’s gonna be next? We know where most of the likely candidates stand, but there is a certain peculiarity about Kate Forbes.

    There is something not quite adding up about Forbes authenticity, something I keep going back to that I read some time ago, that Forbes was on maternity leave until ‘after summer’.
    There are a few unanswered questions about her extended leave and reluctance to pick up a phone or log in: –

    Does a ‘top’ politician stop reading or listening when on leave?
    Were there no communications with any colleagues?
    Didn’t she feel obligated to declare a position on GRR?
    Who benefitted from Forbes silence pre-Christmas?
    Shouldn’t we expect some input from Ministers on leave?
    Would more MSPs have rebelled if Forbes had done so?
    Wasn’t Sturgeon anxious to know Forbes intentions?
    Could Sturgeon have sacked 2 key cabinet members?
    Did Sturgeon and/or the whips lean on Forbes?
    Was SNP civil war inevitable if Forbes/Regan led a rebellion?
    Was there a clandestine understanding between Forbes and Sturgeon?
    Is it normal for a key politician to go off radar for 8 months?
    If contesting the leadership, will she detail her GRR position?
    Will she continue the coalition with the Greens?

    …and many more.

  65. Big Jock says:

    Wilson. Forbes and Regan would be ideal. The one thing they can never throw at that pair. Is questionable pasts. Both are fairly middle of the road.

    I think we all need a break from politicians with weird fetishes and double lives. We need leaders without the Sturgeon, Robertson Swinney baggage.

    As someone once said:” The past is for reference, not for residence”. I say give them a chance and see where they take us. However that does not apply to Robertson, he is a creep.

    Or more importantly ‘ the past is another country’.

  66. Alisdair Mclean says:

    I am so bloody angry because my state of health is such that even if a competent leadership begins to guide the yes movement towards independence I will never live to see it. I have friends who are still members of the SNP and they just can’t see past her. I would have thought the fit up of Alex Salmond and later Criaig Murray would have demonstrated to even her thickest supporter the type of people she and her ‘husband’ are.

  67. SusanAHF says:

    The SNP, with the same contaminated NEC and elected fuckwits, is a non starter. Bin it and start again. Involve born and bred Scots and make working for Scotland a respectable, valued occupation. Make having a Scottish family along traditional lines a worthwhile endeavour. Maybe that will help restore Scottish confidence

  68. gregor says:

    Earl Of Hell (2022): Get Smoked: Hang ‘em High:

    “…Tight-rope around your chest…

    Hang ‘em High
    Hang ‘em High…”:

  69. Frank Gillougley says:

    You be the man, Chris.
    The stark contrast depicted shows clearly the essence of what was missed. It has a dream-like quality, almost as if from, ‘It’s a wonderful life!’
    Definitely ‘the road not taken’ rather than ‘the road less travelled’.
    And by the way for all you poetry buffs out there, I’d take Orkney’s Edwin Muir over Robert Frost any day. None other than TS Eliot thought the sun shone out of his arse in his foreword to Muir’s collected poems.

  70. Big Jock says:

    Susan- I think Scotland needs to find it’s soul again.

    Sturgeon’s obsession with frankly weird ideologies. Has created liberalism on steroids. Which in effect isn’t liberalism. Because in abdicating responsibility I.e anything goes. The majority of Scots feel marginalised. This is due to the over representation of LGBT , Trans and such like.

    No-one is saying they can’t be who they want to be. But I don’t want to hear about their pecadilos on a daily basis. I don’t want my daughter getting force fed a diet of this at school. People’s personal lives are front and centre of society now. Well they bloody well shouldn’t be.

    Let’s have our politics separated from sex and gender and LGBT marches. Nicola was at every rainbow march in town. But not one Independence march. Because her true aim was being Mother Theresa to every minority in Scotland.

  71. James Che says:


    With Reference to your comment the other day about giving it a rest,

    I am extremely busy at the moment and miss many comment and or replying,

    What fears and worries you that I encourage Scots to take a closer inspection of the small print of what is supposed to be a a contractual treaty agreement between Scotland and England parliaments from 1707.

    My second question, why do you wish that Scottish people to stay ignorant on this subject

    Like when they were ignorant Scots Over the MacCrone report.

    I suggest the Scottish people should take up the reins and become more involved and active in their research of what is done to Scotland and its people over the Centuries.

    Why would you tell any Scot to shut up on a subject that concerns them.
    It certainly is of benefit to Scots to check the small print, , but perhaps not so to someone wishing to retain the union,
    And is scared the loop hole may be spotted by Scots on closer inspection.

    Scots are always told to give it a rest, to stop going on and on about wanting freedom for their people.
    Scots have been told to shut up and suck it up from their Colonial masters for a long time, And most Scots are fed up being told to stay quiet and give it a rest,

    So here I have posted on many subjects from Trans issues to homeless people, from snp to larger world wide events,
    From 15 minute Cities in England to the virus that was,

    And yet the topic you are asking me to be quiet on, Is my suggestion of Scots scrutinising the loop hole in the wording and specific terminology of the treaty of the union that was ratified in 1707

  72. 100%Yes says:

    The any new leader of the SNP want to start of by telling the MSM to F*ckoff and take newsquest with you back to London. My only focus is going to deliver the mandates that the Scots have already given my party and I’ll be ensuring that Independence is going to be delivered on 19.10.23.

  73. Big Jock says:

    James. It shill amazes me the amount of people who think because the Supreme Court said no. That Scots just have to hide under the covers for a decade.

    Independence has nothing to do with domestic law. Its an international matter. We just had a leader who either didn’t understand this ,or deliberately sabotaged it.

    Ultimately the Articles of Union. Would be presented to the UN along with our declaration of Independence. That’s how we become free. The next leader must absolutely understand this.

  74. gregor says:


    “The spiritual part of a person that some people believe continues to exist in some form after their body has died, or the part of a person that is not physical and experiences deep feelings and emotions.”

    “Some people think the soul, unlike the body, is incorruptible.”

    “Great literature is balsam to the soul.”

    “I have a sense that we all do have a soul.”

    “A number of authors have suggested that we can account for the unity of consciousness by appealing to a substantial self (or soul).”

  75. JGedd says:

    That cartoon is so poignant and elegiac. So much more eloquent than 1000 words on what has been done to independence.

    In the theory of many universes though, a decision once taken changes the whole world and is irrevocable. We can dream of what might have been but there is no way to call that moment back again. Another world has been created by that decision.

    Already Robin MacAlpine is warning that the Murrell clique are to continue taking us down that crooked path to a bleak future. He is appealing to the present membership to act to prevent it. I suspect that will be in vain. Judging by the reaction so far, it looks as if they are incapable of making that kind of judgement.

    It’s beyond understanding why they can’t see that they have been led away from independence and still fervently cling to their adherence to a false saviour. It isn’t just the woke acolytes who are believers. For a long time it felt like that with Labour voters, before the growth of the SNP and before the advent of the transgender cult.

    John Main is right in his comment. Religions are so much part of the human condition. It is so obvious, at least to me, that religions are a human invention. Even if it’s not about a deity, people feel the need for unquestioning belief and that’s what makes it so difficult to persuade them otherwise.

    Once invested in that belief system, some people can’t admit to themselves that their own willingness to believe, led them astray. It’s like being abandoned by a lover; the abandoned one continues in denial of the truth that everyone else can see. The brain cannot admit the image of self, which is integral to well being, has been so crucially betrayed. It’s a difficult road back from that and anger against anyone pointing out the situation is a natural protection. No one wants to think of themselves as having been duped.

  76. Oneliner says:

    Another goodie from Chris

    Perhaps a cut and paste of Anas Starwar sitting under the signpost, smirking while he reads his copy of The Hutchesonian

  77. Mia says:

    “As for your delusion that Scotland should have been independent in 2016, what was Indy support flatlined at then?”

    Why did it flatline, you ask. I will happily answer to you in all detail when (if) we get that misterious census that Robertson chap wasn’t even capable to organise and deliver on time, never mind in a way you can actually trust the data recorded.

    The census should have been done in 2021, a la par with England and Wales but it wasn’t. Why?

    The official excuse given to us by the political fraud was “covid”. Covid my arse. Most of the census was conducted online and as far as I know, Covid has not yet found the way to travel through the web and then jump through the screen of your fucking computer to infect you. But in Sturgeon’s world, when a excuse was needed to justify her deliberate inaction and incompetence, sci-fi was a good resource to have on hand.

    My suspicion is that the real reason for this delay was because, if done at that time it should have been done, it would have shown the overall population of Scotland significantly decreasing due to the COViD deaths.

    And that is the overall population. The result would have been quite an eye-oppener and jaw-dropping if looking how the last 8 years of Sturgeon’s deliberate procrastination have damaged the native population.

    If you look at the data published before covid (National records of Scotland, I am referring to the data up to 2019), it was already evident the “increase” in Scotland’s population was artificially induced through the importation of people from elsewhere, not due to natality.

    Considering the number of unnecessary deaths the political fraud presided over due to her stupidity in sending covid patients to care homes and her obstinate determination in keeping the borders wide open to allow the virus flowing freely from England into Scotland, and if we consider that during 2020 and 2021 there must have been a decrease in immigrants settling in Scotland due to the pandemic, it can be predicted that the population during the last years of the census would have significantly dropped. Considering the impact of the heating poverty and the ridiculous increase in food prices, I would suggest the period of time Robertson selected for the census was carefully chosen to fall between the two lows, just before the big ramping up of prices that will no doubt lead also to an excess of deaths.

    The data from the National REcords of Scotland already shows that from 2015 and all the way to 2019, the number of deaths in Scotland surpassed the number of births. The data also shows that the number of births had been progressively decreasing since 2014.

    If you look a the data for 2019, alarm bells were already ringing. At that point, the births recorded were 49.863 while the number of deaths was a staggering 58,108. And this was BEFORE Covid.

    Just on the 6 months from March to August 2020, at the height of covid, the number of deaths in total was 32,419. The total number of deaths for 2020 was 62,415. The total number of births for 2020 was only 46,809 – even less than in 2019.

    Just for January 2023, the number of births registered was 4,159 whereas the number of deaths was an staggering 7,314. We can say quite confidently that the tendency to have more deaths than births starting in 2015 is here to stay and the gap between the two is increasing. This is the result of the combination of UK toxic policies with the negligent and deliberate inaction of the useless Sturgeon.

    If you are having to import people from elsewhere to keep your population numbers, the immediate thing you are doing is diluting your native population. If you are diluting your native population, you are also diluting its heritage, its language and accents, its culture and its political tendencies.

    So when the political fraud and her clique were peddling the nonsense that the longer we wait the more people will move to yes is absolute bollocks. The longer we wait the more yes we will haemorrhage and the more no we will import. That is the reality.

    For the year 2019 (data from the National records of Scotland), the number of people from England, Wales and NI who migrated to Scotland was 47,500. The number of people from Scotland that left to live in England, Wales and NI was 37,400. That is a net 10,000 entering Scotland.

    Also for the year 2019, the number of people from outwith the uk migrating to Scotland was 39,900. The number of people from Scotland moving out of the UK was 19,700. That is a net import of 20,000.

    From the birth/death figures and the migration figures it is evident the population in Scotland is being artificially maintained thanks to immigration.

    If every year you are importing a significant proportion of your population from elsewhere, a significant proportion of your population emigrates elsewhere, and your births are lower than your deaths, it stands to the obvious you are actively diluting your native population. The longer you wait to hold that referendum, the more difficult to win yes will be.

    It is not a secret the people coming from England/Wales/NI are strong No voters (it was boasted in the unionist press this section of the population voted around 70% against indy). If you are actively diluting the pro-yes native population witn pro No people from elsewhere, the result is what we have. And that Scotland’s native population is being diluted at fast pace is obvious if you simply listen to the number of people with non-scottish accents around you. In my own work team alone, half of the people is from elsewhere.

    Just for 2019 alone, 87,400 people from elsewhere migrated into Scotland while 57,100 Scottish people emigrated away from Scotland.

    It has been published that 52.7% native Scots voted yes in 2014 (Clegg, D. 2015 Daily Record). I would suspect this figure is higher today.

    It was also published that 72.1% of those coming from England, Wales and NI voted no in 2014. 57.1% of migrants from outwith the uK voted for no in 2014.

    So just for fun lets calculate how that translates for 2019:

    at the rate 52.7% for yes, of 57,100 scots who left Scotland in 2019, 30,091 would have voted yes in another referendum

    at the rate 72.1% for no, of 47,500 people from England, Wales and NI who migrated to Scotland in 2019, 34,247 would have voted No in another referendum.

    at the rate 57.1% for no, of 39,900 people from outwith the uK who migrated into Scotland in 2019, 22,783 would have voted No in another referendum.

    So lets tally the figures:
    Just in 2019, Scotland has potentially lost 30,091 yes voters and has acquired (34,247 + 22,783) 57,030 no voters via migration. Continuous migration and death is accelerating the rate of decrease of yes and increasing the one for no.

    Add to that the fact that during the 8 years of devastation presided by the political fraud Sturgeon during which no real campaigning to progress independence took place and during which this fraud took a political knife to that movement with the imposition of her deliberately toxic and divisive policies and poor governance, and you have your answer.

    That Scotland should have been independent by 2016 is no delusion. Is the reality. Forcing Brexit on Scotland when 62% of the vote in Scotland was against Brexit, when over 50 of our MPs voted against it and when the majority of our MSPs also voted against brexit, was a direct violation of the Claim of Right, and indirectly of the Treaty of Union. There is no way out of that.

    That situation should have triggered an immediate repeal of the Treaty of union which at all practical effects became null and void the moment the Claim of Right was violated. This was the duty of our elected representatives. They failed Scotland miserably, so shame on them all. Instead of Scotland’s interests, these wankers only thought of themselves.

    At the very least, those anti-union 56 MPs and all the anti-union MSPs in Scotland should have immediately withdraw from Westminster, reconvene, suspend the treaty of union and triggered a referendum. To hell with the oolonial crap of “permission” from Westminster. Suspension of the treaty of union would render for Westminster unlawful to rule over Scotland.

    Not having over 50% for yes is not the problem. A majority of the vote was never needed to end the union, in the same way it was never needed to start this union.

    I suspect that brexit was not just forced on Scotland by England or even the crown. I very much suspect Sturgeon and her corrupt Sgov agreed to it. In fact, I am of the opinion brexit was already agreed even before the 2015 election, hence the political fraud removing the wheels of the SNP by claiming a vote for the SNP was not a vote for independence. I am of the opinion the EU referendum was nothing but a farce, the excuse the powers that be needed to justify to England the decision of brexit which had been taken before – hence the blind eye to psyops and the other shenanigans going on.

    So again, demanding now over 50% of the vote for yes to exit the union when this was never a requirement for any other decision imposed on Scotland by the crown or our useless representatives, seems disproportionate.

    For as long as we have an oppressor with a population 12 times higher than ours and which could, on demand, simply send enough no voters to neutralise the paultry increase in yes vote after a campaign; for as long as it is the oppresor and the useful idiots of the oppressor who establish your franchise and rules of vote; for as long as you have the political arms of the oppressor operating right into your campaign and bringing money from elsewhere to thwart your self determination; for as long as you have an hostile MSM and broadcasters pumping propaganda against Scotland’s independence, Scotland will never reach that level. In fact, as the time goes and as proven by Scotland’s native population progression, the longer we wait, the lower our chances to succeed will become.

    The procrastination of the political fraud Sturgeon was deliberate for many reasons. In my view, the dilution of the Scottish native population (and yes) was one of them.

    Mind you, Breeks is mild and generous. Breeks says Scotland should have declared independence in 2016. I say Scotland should have declared independence on the 8th May 2015 and to hell with “permission” and the pretence of democracy when democracy was never a requirement to force anything on Scotland against its will for the previous 300 years.

    Remaining in this union is toxic and is threatening Scotland’s sustainability. It is the wellbeing of Scotland as a whole what those MPs should be looking after, not the political inclinations of an minority coming from elsewhere and determined to thwart the right of Scotland’s natives to self determination to keep Scotland similar to the country where they come from.

    Democracy was never a requirement in 1706 when this union was forced on Scotland nor was it in 1713 when our own MPs were at the verge of terminating the treaty nor it was in 2016 when Scotland voted 62% against brexit. The only thing that counted in 1706 and 1713 was the MPs’ and the crown’s own interests. It is the same today.

  78. James Che says:

    Harping on about the treaty of union as Mark puts it, when he suggests to be quiet on the subject, to stay ignorant on the small print and not talk about what is stopping Scotland from being independent in 2023.
    Should be a red flag to all Scots curiosity, more than ever,

    There have been a few voices that have stood out over the last year on here that have been tell the ( moon howlers) not to bother with such a old Treaty, and look forward instead.

    But you and I cannot run freely into your future Scotland, if your ankle is still tied to the ball and chain of a past 300 year old treaty.

    So when some flash salesman tells me not to look to closely at the small print in a contract, but just sign here and here,

    Guess what, it draws my attention to the small print,

    And that is what has been happening here, do not look at the small print of the threaty of the union, because the salesman tells you not bother.

  79. Ottomanboi says:

    Sturgeon was the exemplar of risk averse, rule bound, health and safety style of politics resulting in many wasted years.
    A repeat of that style is now unthinkable.
    If it doesn’t sting, it’s not working.
    Nations are not renewed with palliatives.

  80. Alf Baird says:

    mark @ 12:19 pm

    “No one can take you to independence – not Salmond, not Sturgeon, not a re-born Jesus Christ, and not any new leader – because you do not have even 50% support in the country.”

    Colonialism and its effects (e.g. cultural assimilation, cultural obliteration, ethnic discrimination, and population displacement etc) is the only reason half of Scotland’s population today hold to a British identity. That is nothing to be proud of. Thankfully more Scots now better understand the nature of our oppression and that independence is decolonization. Doun-Hauden: The Socio-Political Determinants of Scottish Independence

  81. James Che says:

    Chris Cairns,

    I enjoyed this weeks cartoon, it says it all,
    If NS made a choice to go in the opposite direction from everyone else, its a lonely road to walk at the end of the day,

    As a ex cartoonist for small papers, I bow and give high praise to your thought processes and excellent drawings.

  82. Lorna Campbell says:

    Beautiful cartoon, Chris, and Big JOck’s Robert Frost poem very fitting, too. Thank you both. Everyone’s life faces a crossroads every so often. Frequently, we take the wrong path. That’s part of the human condition. It is when we do not learn from having taken the wrong path that problems set in. We have the chance now to turn back and take the right path, but we are not going to do it without rapprochement between the SNP and the rest of the YES movement.

    When a new leader comes in, firstly, he/she must either drop completely, or rewrite, the GRRB so that it, in no way, enables incursions into female spaces and rights, but allows those who call themselves ‘trans’ to access limited and restricted civil rights above those everyone has, easily and quickly, with all information on birth, offences, etc. kept in the records. On no account should self-ID be allowed through. I would also be pressing for a statement from Stonewall Scotland and its allies that these concessions will entail NO encroachment of female rights and that the 2010 Equality Act exception of sex will be honoured. It should be made plain to the ‘trans’ lobby, and its supporters in government, by women’s organisations, that the fight against the 2004 GRA, its eventual repeal, will continue and intensify at the UK level based on the contempt Stonewall and its arms have shown for the legal rights of others.

    Secondly, she/he must acknowledge that independence is at the very heart of the SNP’s raison d’être and that he/she will reach out to the other independence parties and movements and organisations in a bid to centre independence once more. Then, the hard work of SALVO/SSRG, etc. must be used as the basis for a case in the UN, as the background to a new political initiative that, in turn, acknowledges the need to bring as many of our people aboard as possible. That will require time, of which we do not have an endless supply, but there are no shortcuts, unfortunately.

    Anything less than these will flag up to the electorate that there is to be no change after Sturgeon’s departure, and the same path will be followed to the bitter end – nowhere.

  83. Garrion says:

    Alright. Gonna throw in here.

    Independence is not over ‘there’ to be taken.
    It isn’t and won’t be a choice that one just selects to ‘walk towards’.

    It is and will increasingly be a fight, hopefully a political one, and it will require positive and uncomfortable action, choice and will.

    It will require the silent, passive and culturally, politically and spiritually disenfranchised Scottish underclass to fully realise how completely f8cked over they have been and continue to be, and, and this is critical, get really angry about it.

    I’m not talking revolutionary socialists here, those idiots have as much to do with the actual ‘working class’ as I do with what toilet paper Elon Musk uses. I’m talking about a growing sense of actually deserving better, and clearly knowing that with Independence they are most likely to get it.

    You will notice that once the SNP became the establishment, they firmly kept that lion in it’s cage.

    There are many excellent reasons that the British establishment have worked and are working very hard and with strategic and tactical brilliance in ensuring that independence is conceptualized and characterized in ways that ensure that it does not gain purchase in the common mind (Alf Baird’s and Franz Fanon), and if it does gain purchase defusing and confusing the means to it’s further advancement.

    Look at what went on in SNP immediately after they, once again, targeted Salmond, groomed and co-opted Sturgeon (or whatever happened – whomsoever steps into those shoes is going to get the same treatment) , rewrote the constitution of the SNP to forever neuter it, and helped fill it with mouth-breathing careerist drones or full on collaborators who do what they’re told.

    If you are interested in understanding who we are dealing with here, and how long the British Establishment have been developing and refining these capacities, you may want to read Dalrymple’s excellent book ‘The Anarchy’ about the shenanigans of the East India Company in Mughal India.

    Anyhoo, can we please stop imagining that the SNP are ever going to actually advance independence, that whoever becomes leader is going to be able to effect real change, and that some hero will descend from the sky and make our wishes come true. It’s a Scottish disease.

    Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

  84. James Che says:

    Big Jock.

    The thing is the Ratifying part of the treaty of the mythical treaty of the union was passed under domestic law in England and Scotland,
    It did not become international until later on.
    Because when it was ratified the two parliaments were still separate.

    I have perhaps not explained this to well, however I did take the jist of it from a lawyers site in Scotland,

    When I have more time I will check my notes from last year and post the link here for you,

    When I

  85. Republicofscotland says:

    Mia @2.14pm.

    Very well said Mia, and you can be sure the hidden census that was a year late, and cost millions more than it should have will show a stark change in demographics of Scotland.

  86. joolz says:

    Such a poignant image. A reminder that we have been pulled so far away from indy since 2014.

    We now have twice the road to walk. We have to walk back all the damage done to Scotland as we took the wrong road before we can get back to the junction and start on the right road.

    Sturgeon’s obsession with betraying women and denying biology will make many wary of walking the right road with us.

  87. Luigi says:

    The SNP have gradually morphed into an establishment “national” party, similar to the old Irish IPP a century ago (or “Scottish” Labour more recently). If the new SNP leader and party don’t change course soon, then eventually a Scottish equivalent of Sinn Fein could appear and grow in the vacuum. This may sound unlikely to many, but it could happen sooner than expected. Scottish Labour were replaced overnight, and the same thing could happen to the SNP. I’m sure that those IPP mps of old felt pretty comfy and secure in their seats until all hell broke loose (probably up to and including the night before). Things could get ugly in a short space of time. And that is a real worry. The British state would of course come down hard (as they always do), but when a significant proportion of the country feels there is nothing to lose, then anything can happen. The historic critical level of independence support for trouble starts at 30%. Scotland is already at 50%. The British establishment knows this, but such is their utter economic and strategic dependence on Scotland since Brexit, they can do nothing but hang on in the faint hope that this 50% level will eventually fall. Unlikely IMO, but what else can they do? Unlike the SNP, they won’t give up without a fight.

  88. Breastplate says:

    John Main @ 12:49pm,

    Confounder’s comment is not a statement of fact, it lays bare his hypocritical viewpoint regarding independence.
    He’s very happy for every other country to be independent, just not Scotland.
    I’m in no way surprised that you agree with him.

  89. James Che says:

    Alf Baird.

    The very structure of the Coloniser is to make the Colonised believe there is no way out for them,
    That all they do is inadequite,
    That their thoughts and believes are inferior,
    That any action to oppose the Coloniser has punishments, such as shared debt,

    On the subject of shared debt with the Coloniser, How does that work for Scotland when the private corporation that was registered as the bank of England for a long time after the treaty? and not the bank of Westminster or the exchecquer nor was it the Bank of Great Britain parliament until legislation was passed at a much much later date.?

    This therefore cannot be a national shared debt with the parliament of Westminster and GB,

  90. Lenny Hartley says:

    Luigi, i dont know where you get the “trouble” angle from, when Sinn Fein “suddenly” took control of the Irish Independence Movement in Nov 1918, it was through the process of Westminster parliamentary “democracy” there was no trouble at all.
    The later split and Civil War in Ireland came about due to splits over the settlement.

  91. Ottomanboi says:

    The psychology of independence is where the politics gets its energy.
    If the first is «defective» it will be manifest in the politics.
    Scotland is learning.
    Exciting times ahead?

  92. Ladybird says:

    Confounder says:
    18 February, 2023 at 11:07 am
    It’s a good cartoon but, if you think independence is going to be the sunlit uplands, I think you are going to have a rude awakening.

    Nobody thinks it’s gonnae be perfect or easy or magically turn Scotland into a tropical paradise. Nobody thinks this. I write that twice for emphasis and idiots.

    What is true though is that Scotland will get the government it votes for, every single time. Scotland will get to determine the direction the country will go, what trade agreements will be made, how citizens are treated, whether or not nuclear weapons are allowed at all/in the vicinity of a major city. All this and more makes the struggle worthwhile.

    I look forward to struggling with you all. Peace.

  93. Lenny Hartley says:

    James Che, if an treaty is agreed between two sovereign countries, that means it was an International agreement!

  94. Wilson McBride says:

    One of Sturgeon’s policies did work in the end.

    Her Scotched earth policy.

    Just look at the carnage and devastation she has left in her wake.

    A human wrecking Ball.

    She must never be forgiven for this.

    Hound the bastard for the rest of her life.

  95. stuart mctavish says:

    Big Jock @8:48

    Extending the road less travelled metaphor, her selfless idea to allow every SNP member the opportunity to be the one credited with leading the country to independence, after having done all the hard work, is truly gracious – almost regardless of whose pitch ultimately determines strategy from hereon in.

    Since that work required firefighting and containment of legacy and novel ‘other stuff’ from much further afield and, crucially, came without the assistance of a pet Judge Rouleaux to whitewash any emergencies closer to home, then its arguably even more generous a gesture in event her successor avoids an unexpected drop of the baton (or their troosers) – and manages to wind it up a storm in the defacto referendum currently expected following the (presumably now imminent) collapse of parliament.

    Accordingly, with apologies in advance to Peter Murrel, a worthwhile extra mile to raise awareness of FM position being currently in abeyance (lady’s prerogative notwithstanding) might be to engage the wider electorate in all raffles arising for the complementary tickets & expenses to triple crown, coronation and potential grand slam matches & corporate entertainments, etc that might otherwise be forgotten about during the leadership selection process.

  96. Confounder says:

    Breastplate @ 3.01
    “Confounder’s comment is not a statement of fact, it lays bare his hypocritical viewpoint regarding independence.”

    To be fair, hypocrisy implies two contradicting things. My statement was just one thing — I didn’t give you anything to compare it with. You’ve invented something to compare it with, but the comparison you’ve made is false. The real comparison would be whether I am in favour of any country except Scotland ditching any union it is already part of, and I’m not — it’s not a matter of principle, it’s ‘horses for courses’.

    Big Jock @ 1.13 p.m.
    “Wilson. Forbes and Regan would be ideal. The one thing they can never throw at that pair. Is questionable pasts.”

    I dunno, Forbes’ moral opposition to same-sex marriage (not a particularly woke concept by modern standards) and abortion are relevant baggage. The vast majority of women want access to abortion. Is this the women’s right that it’s OK to fuck with? (You’ve already stated your opposition, but I’m guessing that it’s not likely to be something that would affect you directly.)
    She could navigate round this in the way that Biden has in the US by declaring very directly that she won’t be basing public policy on her personal religious views. I hope she’s already got this straight in her head.

  97. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Margaret+Eleftheriou says: at 11:38 am


    Robert Frost is a great 20th century American poet. I love the poem quoted but have derived strength from the last verse of Stopping by woods on a snowy evening.

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

    Many thanks Margaret 🙂

    My version:

    “The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I’m not going there with Nicola the creep”

  98. JGedd says:

    Tinto Chiel @ 9.29am

    Or the words over the Gate to Hell? -‘Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch’intrate.’ (Usually in English – ‘Abandon all hope, you who enter here.’) Too grim?

  99. No competition among great poets; of course Edwin Muir is one of the greatest. His beautiful poem THE HORSES with its positive look to the future from a very dark situation, is certainly one for today.
    Our life is changed: their coming our beginning.

  100. Effijy says:

    The Westminster corruption and greed of the rich gets spelled out again today.
    The female, am I still allowed to use that term, boss of Nat West Bank just made £5.2 Million in salary due to excess profits. I’m sure she will get shares and plentiful pensions on top.

    By closing branches and making the elderly travel, by paying off staff, by giving below inflation wage rises but no passing on increased rate rises to savers she can put billions in the pockets of share holders who have spare money to gamble on.

    Yes the tax payer bailed them out from bankruptcy due to their casino gambling and we still own almost half of it.

    Why don’t we own all of it as it went burst?
    Why didn’t the shareholders not lose their investment
    Why hasn’t the government demanded branches stay open that staff are paid properly,
    Why are rate rises not shared with savers,
    Why are the people at the top allowed to take sicken amounts of money each year.

    As they did with Lloyds bank shares the tax payer bought during their bail out they will sell of a very health Nat West to a Tory hedge fund for a fraction of their value.

  101. Graeme George says:

    I’ve been listening to videos about Vladimir Putin who is in many ways a man I admire although I accept he’s probably not a nice guy but he is president of a superpower of 270 million people, that’s an enormous responsibility and lets be honest you don’t get in that position by being a nice guy, but nonetheless drawing parallels between him and our own own erstwhile leader Nicola Sturgeon the only difference I can see is where Sturgeon would put her friends in prison knowing they’re innocent Putin would have them shot so I suppose Nicola holds the moral high ground over Vladimir and we should be thankful

  102. Bob Mack says:

    Reminds me that the road to happiness winds among joys and woes as it has done for most of us.
    Just now is only part of that journey.

    Chris Cairns, what a talented guy you are.

  103. Ruby says:

    Confounder says:
    18 February, 2023 at 3:49 pm

    I dunno, Forbes’ moral opposition to same-sex marriage (not a particularly woke concept by modern standards) and abortion are relevant baggage. The vast majority of women want access to abortion. Is this the women’s right that it’s OK to fuck with? (You’ve already stated your opposition, but I’m guessing that it’s not likely to be something that would affect you directly.)
    She could navigate round this in the way that Biden has in the US by declaring very directly that she won’t be basing public policy on her personal religious views. I hope she’s already got this straight in her head.

    A lot of focus on Forbes’ religious beliefs yet none on Humza Yousaf’s religious beliefs.

    Personally I would prefer politicians not to be religious.

    A lot of these religious beliefs are pretty far fetched and my worry is if you can believe them then you can believe anything.

  104. Grendel says:

    “My first concerns were at the Hydro event in 2015 when she announced her “gender balanced” cabinet, where she was promoting people on the basis of their gender – not ability. I’ve never supported this type of thinking. When you need the best people in post they MUST be there on merit. To do otherwise is to accept that you may be promoting mediocrity over competency.”

  105. gregor says:

    Elsa McTaggart (2021): The Old Pathway: Sunday Song:

    (”I only went and sang my favourite line of the whole song.. wrong!
    ‘And when we rise on eagles wings’ .. should be… ‘And when we rise on wings of dawn’”…:)

    “As I walk through dappled sunlight
    Along the simple way
    There’s no other place I’d go a walking aimlessly
    The sights and smells at every bend
    Bring back sweet memories
    Of the times we daily walked along
    The old pathway…”:

  106. SusanAHF says:

    Yes Ruby how does Humza feel about sharia law stating that women have flawed brains and are worth less than men.

  107. John Main says:

    @Breastplate 3:01

    Mince doesn’t do your post justice.

    Shite is le mot juste.

  108. twathater says:

    Another great cartoon Chris and unfortunately the TRUTH of it will still escape the apologists and sycophants , many examples of which are still appearing in the comments BTL

    ALL these former members and ones who are still members putting forward their preferences for who they want to lead the POISONED SHELL snp CULT , am I living in a different universe or is my memory better than some others on here

    The FUCKING snp have betrayed US ALL, THEY, COLLECTIVELY ALL OF THEM even the late,late late rebels and the MAT excuse vote avoiders , they ALL sat on their hands and fat arses and let this perverted deviant divert and destroy OUR DREAMS, every last one of them , NOT one of them came forward to expose and highlight that independence was further away than ever under sturgeon , not one of them called the deviant out publicly to defend Joanna Cherry when she was being threatened with RA PE , NOT one of them spoke out publicly when an employee who is STILL employed threatened gun violence

    Every long term poster on here knows what was done to Salmond every one knows who done it , everyone knows who manipulated it and who the main players were and under whose instructions they were acting , everyone in SCOTLAND knows witnesses perjured themselves and the LEGAL PROFESSION have ignored it and continue to ignore it , everyone on here knows about Craig Murray , Mark Hirst and Manny Singh and what was done to them and NOT ONE of these snp troughers raised an eyebrow , and yet here we have people putting forward suggestions as to who would be best to head up the snp and be FM in charge of Scotland and independence


  109. Shug says:

    Is Murrell still there??

    Where are the e mails, my popcorn has gone cold!!

  110. Chic Murrays's Chiropodist says:

    @JohnMain 5.33

    you talk merde, mon ami

    Play the ball no the man.

  111. Breeks says:

    Grendel says:
    18 February, 2023 at 5:08 pm
    “My first concerns were at the Hydro event in 2015 when she announced her “gender balanced” cabinet…

    I agree with your comment but I don’t agree with the article Grendel… I mean, I kinda know what it’s getting at, but IF an MP swapping Parties was compelled to resign, we’d have been robbed of ALBA’s Kenny MacAskill and Neale Hanvey, at a desperate time when they were the only decent ones actually standing by the SNP’s commitment and repeated Independence mandates, while the SNP itself was kicking the mandate it was elected to deliver into the long grass.

    Isn’t the argument stronger for the SNP to stand down, or be stood down, having cynically played bait and switch with the electorate? They suckered in the electorate with pledges of IndyRefs and defending Scotland, but once elected, dropped all of that “Independence malarkey”, to pursue Gender reforms and SelfID which wasn’t even in their manifesto. How utterly disgraceful.

    What right did the SNP have to force OUR IndyRef mandate off the agenda in order to pursue their Pervert’s Charter? I’d have sacked the lot of them except Kenny and Neale.

    The law isn’t lacking to chastise an MP for disloyalty. What definitely is lacking, is a codified protocol of impeachment to sack a Scottish Government for fraudulence and dishonesty, or the SNP’s case, violating the Claim of Right and selling out Scotland’s Constitutional integrity.

  112. John Main says:

    @Mia 2:14

    I am generally in agreement with your conclusions drawn from a detailed analysis of Scotland’s demographics. The potential for a Yes vote for Indy is decreasing year on year as our population changes. It is precisely for this reason that I supported calling an immediate HR plebiscitary election at the end of last year.

    I still support that call. I call for whoever wishes to take over as FM to campaign on that basis.

    The idea that HR can settle in with a new FM whilst the ongoing demographic changes accelerate is strictly for the birds. This summer will see a ratcheting up of migration due to deteriorating climate change and geopolitical uncertainty. As I have pointed out before, none of the WM parties have any intention of reining in immigration, quite the opposite. And whilst the majority of immigrants settle in England, the corresponding displacement of the richer, older people, who no longer wish to live in the English hellhole, is what drives the inwards migration to Scotland.

    The Indy movement doesn’t have the luxury of waiting for circumstances to improve. IMO, the window within which a majority for Yes can ever be achieved is time limited.

    My own view is that it will have slammed shut forever by 2025.

  113. James Che says:

    I Agree with you to a certain point, but you are not convincing in you’re debate,

    For the Scottish parliament was [ excluded ] from joining the rest of parliamentary treaty of union, as it was ratified as a extinguished parliament by both the Scottish parliament in Scotland and the English parliament in England in 1707.
    by first the Commissioner on both sides with the pre-nupt agreement and later by ratifying that pre-nupt agreement.

    The EXTINGUISHED Scottish parliament was and still is, unable to provide members from its 1707 Scottish extinguished parliament to Westminster parliament/ GB parliament/ UK parliament.

    That the Scottish parliament was eliminated from joining the treaty of union.
    Can be found by simple research,
    Uk parliament site, 2023.
    The UK parliament states this on it site.

    “The Scottish parliament in 1707 extinguished itself by AGREEEING to the treaty of the union”.

    You do not have to believe what I say,
    It actually would be wiser for you to check that statement out on the UK parliament site for yourself,
    As can many others on here.

    There is no Scottish parliament in the Treaty of the union,

    However there is a possibility for a true Scottish parliament in Scotland, because when you read the small print, the said “treaty” only extinguishes, Bans, Excludes, and makes void the Scottish parliament to and in joining Englands Westminster parliament under its name change.

    The 1707 treaty of union articles that were ratifying a union self destructed (itself) by extinguishing the Scottish parliament as its first priority in 1707.

  114. David+McA says:

    Ruby says “personally I would prefer politicians not to be religious”.
    what a strange statement. everyone has a set of core values, beliefs, principles. even ruby. ruby’s include “preferring politicians not to be religious”. the difference is that some people are up front about them – they live by them. other people are not. they change them depending who they are with and what circumstances they are in. personally I would prefer people who are up front and consistent, than those who are uncertain and very with every passing opinion poll.

  115. stuart mctavish says:

    OT – Shadow Scottish secretary Ian Murray reported to have complained that

    “For the next six weeks, the Scottish Government is going to be completely paralysed.

    However, given Mr McConnel replaced Mr McLeish within a fortnight of the latter’s resignation, Murray is presumably projecting nonsense from habit and his true intent is to instruct Sarwar to nominate a replacement FM as soon as Holyrood reopens rather than telegraph labour’s complicity in up to 5 weeks of the complete paralysis in event his analysis proves correct 🙂

  116. James Che says:

    Lennie Hartley.

    You can not have a 1707 Scottish parliament, that is not a Scottish any more, in a treaty of union with Westminster.

    Either the the 1707 Scottish parliament still exists today as was, as a Scottish parliament, or the English Westminster parliament is in a treaty on its own,

    Legally You can not have both.

  117. Kcor says:

    From the day she became leader she has done everything in her power to make independence unachievable.

    When it became known that Alex Salmond was planning to further independence, she and her corrupt criminal cronies conspired to put him in jail on false charges of rape.

    She should be on the direct road to jail.

    As for Cherry, she is nothing more than a Sturgeon in waiting.

    Can anyone point to one concrete thing she has done for the cause of independence since becoming a Westminster MP?

    Fat good it did to be actively involved in the reopening of the Westminster parliament in which SNP MPs have a ZERO chance of getting anything passed in favour of Scotland.

  118. Grendel says:

    @ Breeks 18 February, 2023 at 5:55 pm

    For every MacAskill or Hanvey there’s a Derek Mackay or a Mark McDonald, or a Margaret Ferrier.

    Some will jump out of principle, while others try to ride out their “contract” with the people – despite having broken it. And others are just rats who will jump ship for position, money or just to stick two fingers up at the colleagues who have passed them over. The reasons are endless.

    So let them stand for their principles, or if they have none, get them off the public teat, and replace them with someone chosen by the people in accordance with their votes.

    To create an honest and level playing field you must accept that sometimes things will work in your favour, sometimes not. But the rules would be the same for all.

    Resign – make your case, and let the people decide.

    Incidentally my petition goes before the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee on Wednesday.

    Much like the Bank of Dave movie, I don’t expect it to succeed – but I want to hear their reasons as to why such a hypocritical system should remain.

  119. Breeks says:

    “ Mhairi Black: Any shift to the right will kill the SNP”.

    So just remember boys and girls, only ever take left wing drag acts into your local primary school if you don’t want to kill the SNP…

  120. Shug says:

    If they shoo in Robertson the SNP is finished and no doubt.

    The man is compromised, he knows it and anyone watching the history knows it.

    He will be unable to take any step to indy without a threat from the unionist. One that will be significant.

    He is a non starter and I am surprised he can’t see that, unless he is a willing kompromat

  121. Graeme George says:


    nailed it
    I’d go further we have to stop discussing the SNP, they’re no longer relevant to us our cause or our country every one of them and I mean every one of them have betrayed us and their country our country no exceptions.

  122. Ruby says:

    SusanAHF says:
    18 February, 2023 at 5:24 pm

    Yes Ruby how does Humza feel about sharia law stating that women have flawed brains and are worth less than men.

    I suppose if you are brought up from birth to believe because you are a boy you are special you would find it easy to believe women are worth less than men.

    I don’t think he’s alone in believing women are worth less than men or that it is a belief specific to muslims.

    There are a lot of them about. Most practice the ‘Transgender religion. They too have some very far fetched religious beliefs. They chant their beliefs in the street ‘Transwomen are women!’ Women have penises! Born in the wrong body. Trans rights are human rights.

    I preferred the Hare Krishnas although I didn’t know what they were saying.

    The prime minister is Hindu.

    I don’t know much about Hinudism. I do remember the Hare Krishnas in their orange robes chanting in the street. They were Hindu.

    Hinduism sounds a bit like Buddhism although they do have the caste system which sounds awful but I suppose it’s is pretty much what we have here in the UK among the atheists.

  123. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ladybird , I agree entirely – Scotland should be free to laud her own successes and deal with her own failures.

    Breeks , I will never forget that and I hope East Renfrewshire education department doesn’t forget either.

  124. Dan says:

    @ twathater

    I do tend to agree with what you say. There have been so many instances over the years which could and should have been catalysts for any decent SNP elected official to step up and say “no more of this, not in my name”.
    But rather than have the fortitude and integrity to call out their Party’s failings, they chose to keep their head’s down supping gravy.
    GRR aside, how can they justify the ongoing ferries fiasco, the ScotWind auction giveaway, the census debacle, and all the other stuff Shug was collating into a list a few days back. Do they really think that dire level of performance is acceptable and serving the electorate well.

    Kenny MacAskill and Neale Hanvey made the principled choice to depart the SNP, presumably as they must have recognised what was going on and felt the Party was no longer doing what it should be doing.
    We supposedly elect politicians to represent and serve us, but what benefit is there in empowering individuals if they lack the awareness to see and understand that the processes and policies they are implementing are far from adequate or acceptable.

  125. Ruby says:

    Grendel says:
    18 February, 2023 at 6:17 pm

    @ Breeks 18 February, 2023 at 5:55 pm

    For every MacAskill or Hanvey there’s a Derek Mackay or a Mark McDonald, or a Margaret Ferrier.

    I never figured out what Mark McDonald was supposed to have done that was so wrong. The Derek MacKay thing I found suspicious.

  126. Tartanpigsy says:

    Shut: If they shoo in Robertson the SNP is finished and no doubt.

    The man is compromised, he knows it and anyone watching the history knows it.

    He will be unable to take any step to indy without a threat from the unionist. One that will be significant.

    He is a non starter and I am surprised he can’t see that, “unless he is a willing kompromat”

    I’d put my life on it tbh, his old man was MI5, former MP for Moray, defence spokesman with plenty opportunity for debriefing at the Lossiemouth RAF base, married to an apparently dishonest careerist, who’s been rumoured to tell the odd lie to further her own career.
    Would 100% be the end.
    I think Ash Regan/ Denham may be the only glimmer of hope and if lapsed members can’t rejoin and vote even that seems highly unlikely

  127. Grendel says:

    Ruby says:
    18 February, 2023 at 6:34 pm

    I never figured out what Mark McDonald was supposed to have done that was so wrong. The Derek MacKay thing I found suspicious.

    Collateral damage in the Alex Salmond plot. No use to the SNP in their future plans, an acceptable loss, he was allowed to ride out his time and claim his salary until the election where he was replaced.

    As for Derek Mackay, the only thing suspicious was Mr Mackay himself.

  128. Dan says:

    @ Ruby

    Re. Mark McDonald, you may recall this, you did comment btl.

  129. Iain More says:

    Tartanpigsy says:
    18 February, 2023 at 6:44 pm

    Shut: If they shoo in Robertson the SNP is finished and no doubt.

    The man is compromised, he knows it and anyone watching the history knows it.

    He will be unable to take any step to indy without a threat from the unionist. One that will be significant.

    He is a non starter and I am surprised he can’t see that, “unless he is a willing kompromat”


    I heard he wasnt standing for the leadership contest. It is what I heard anyway.

  130. Ruby says:

    Dan says:
    18 February, 2023 at 6:48 pm

    @ Ruby

    Re. Mark McDonald, you may recall this, you did comment btl.

    Did I? What did I say?

    I had a look but couldn’t be bother wading through all the Cameron Brodie &
    schrodingers cat post.

  131. Ruby says:

    Grendel says:
    18 February, 2023 at 6:47 pm

    As for Derek Mackay, the only thing suspicious was Mr Mackay himself.

    Is that what you think?

    I guess I have a more a suspicious mind than you do.

    There’s got to be more to the Mark MacDonald thing than what you suggest.

    Was it a test? Did they think if the public swallow this garbage then so would a jury.

    Kinda similar to the test where they put rapists in women’s jails.

  132. Dan says:

    Okay, Saturday night IT lesson.
    Press Ctrl then F keys and that brings up a text search box where you can put in letters / words and then scroll through the result on the page.
    You only posted once.

    But Capella name checks you in one of their posts.

  133. robertkknight says:

    “Mhairi Black: Any shift to the right will kill the SNP”.

    LOL. The SNP is already dead. The fact that she and the other troughers are still drawing a salary just means the penny hasn’t dropped.

    Hopefully the wake up call will come at the ballot box.

  134. gregor says:


    “Not willing to work or use any effort.”

    “If you weren’t so lazy we could start fixing up the house.”

    “You will get the lazy child who copies what the next child is doing and these copiers must be helped to think for themselves.”

  135. Ruby says:

    Dan says:
    18 February, 2023 at 7:33 pm

    Okay, Saturday night IT lesson.
    Press Ctrl then F keys and that brings up a text search box where you can put in letters / words and then scroll through the result on the page.
    You only posted once.

    But Capella name checks you in one of their posts.

    That post was OK. I think I’ll repost it this time with a link.

    I still haven’t had an answer.

    Human rights lawyer reports ‘catalogue of sexual harassment’ at Holyrood

    Ruby says:
    3 July, 2020 at 11:34 am

    Anyone remember the following?

    ’29th October 2017
    Human rights lawyer Aamer Anwar reports ‘catalogue of sexual harassment’ at Holyrood

    ‘He said: “It’s a catalogue of sexual harassment, stalking, social media abuse, sexual innuendos, verbal sexual abuse, touching, sexual assaults, requests for sex, cover-up, isolation and bullying.”

    A human rights lawyer says women at all levels of the Scottish Parliament have been subjected to sexual harassment.

    He added: “I have spoken to several individuals who have been subject to sexual harassment. This is not just a problem for one party. It is a problem for all parties.’

    What I find weird about the above is out of the ‘catalogue of sexual harassment’ all we’ve heard about is Mark MacDonald & Alex Salmond.

    Is what Aamer Anwar said true or false?

    Your Saturday night IT lessons are appreciated except that I am on a Mac and these Windows shortcuts dont work. 🙂

    I haven’t quite figured out why you wanted to point out that I had posted on that old thread.

  136. Ian McCubbin says:

    Wow great cartoon. We need no more like her though.
    Such interesting points from many on the way ahead.
    Like many I fear our time of best opportunitiesay be past.
    We need charismatic people to take on the claim of right and get us to a plebiscite case for Independence and declare that at the UN.

  137. Dan says:

    @ Ruby

    I responded to you because you stated:

    Ruby says: at 6:34 pm

    I never figured out what Mark McDonald was supposed to have done that was so wrong. The Derek MacKay thing I found suspicious.

    I asked if you recalled the article as it gives an explanation of why Mark McDonald got treated the way he did. My mention that you posted btl sort of proves you read the article at the time but either don’t recall it or dismiss its validity as per reason suggested.
    But you use an Apple device so that may completely explain our out of kilterness on things. 😉
    I use an ancient old HP laptop and what’s left of my brain* and still manage to search, find, and recall stuff.
    * Brain compromised by stinking cold on top of what looks evermore like Lyme’s disease symptoms. But I still know what a woman is though, so at least the mush in my cranium is functioning better than a lot of our elected officials.

  138. John Main says:

    Excoriating deconstruction of Sturgeon on Unherd from feminist Kathleen Stock: “Nicola Sturgeon Is Rewriting History”.

    Ms Stock is right to be enjoying her revenge, having been on the receiving end of the hate spewed by the trans reality-deniers and enabled in Scotland by Sturgeon and her fellow travellers.

    Ms Stock predicts we are about to enter the age of the “Great Forgetting” as Sturgeon’s supporters attempt to airbrush over their part in the gender lunacy, much as they have already airbrushed over the Covid lunacy.

    Twathater at 5:40 has the right ideas about that.

  139. Robert Hughes says:

    Twathater @ 5.40

    My thoughts exactly .

    Baffling why so much energy is being expended here on which vacuous * personality * will be selected to keep the SNP Freakshow running for another season .

    They’re done . FUBAR . O.V.E.R .

    Let them continue on that road depicted in Chris’s brilliant cartoon .

    The one with the petrified ( in both senses ) forest , the desolate landscape of hollow gestures n broken promises , populated by * gender * ghouls , expense account vampires n Brit State spectres . The one that leads to electoral oblivion .

    It took Labour 60/70 years to eviscerate every noble ideal it ever stood for .

    Take a bow Nu SNP , you managed that in a * world beating * 8 . Though , I suspect , not without a little help from the heirs of Walsingham .

    Party Politics generally has atrophied , it’s now a spiritual wasteland hollowed-out by hollow men n women , line-toers , head-nodders , shtum-keepers . Maybe it’s always been thus , if so , never has it been more egregiously so than presently .

    And never were the stakes as high as now . From the psychopaths in Washington/M.I.C edging us ever closer to global annihilation ; the complete erasure of the category Women ; the increasing influence n power of corporate , unelected entities and individuals ( turn off yr brain n roll up yr sleeve , it’s jag time again , baby ) ; the ongoing digitisation and eventual elimination of money , with the corresponding ability of the State to control even more aspects of our lives eg 15 minute cities . The freedom n autonomy of * ordinary * people is under concerted attack . And never do you hear any Party Leader refer to this , let alone object to or counter it .

    The simple reason being …..they are all part of the same warped system . Yet somehow we think a new face , new name , new look will – this time – be different . It won’t . It can’t , because the mentality is always the same . We came . We saw . We thought to ourselves ” actually , that former enemy is a really decent chap,those constituency problems are not that pressing , that wine is sooooo good ” . Bought . And so cheaply

    ” You can have any colour you want . As long as it’s black “

  140. Dan says:

    @ George Ferguson

    Re. Ferries

    Have been speaking with a pal about various engineery things and I retrieved this article from a year ago to send to him to read as our chat touched on the subject of the ferries.
    This article very much tries to describe the issue as a cabling blunder thus assigning blame to parties that ran the cables.
    But I understand those original cables were actually the correct length and only became “too short” because the original planned location of the transformer room the cables connect to was subsequently changed, without whomever made that decision considering or factoring in the resultant cable issue re-location of the transformer room would create and cost.

  141. jockmcx says:

    It’s all really very, very, very, very simple!

    It’s the YES movement’s time to say…


    Get it?
    Independence or NOTHING!

  142. gregor says:

    @Andrew scott (et al)

    You’ve got issues with the person/people – nature/topic/content/frequency/volume of information/facts (re. Scotland’s news/people/arts/music/history/heritage/culture/identity etc – SELF@REALITY) – despite knowing nothing about the person/people you attempt to publicly belittle and humiliate – as your personal object/s.

    Unlike you shameful cowards (losers), I treasure Scotland and its people…

  143. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    For those of you in need of more meaningful poetry…

  144. George Ferguson says:

    @Dan 8:34pm
    That’s my understanding Dan. The cable schedule was routed and cable cut by an International Scandinavian Ship cabling contractor. The control panels were relocated by different senior managers for “enhanced” design purposes. Result cables too short. In terms of legal responsibility the cable company were not pursued which tells you everything you need to know. Now sitting at 500 million pounds with no cap on the total overall expenditure and no guarantee of the seaworthiness of the vessels.

  145. gregor says:

    Andrew scott says: re. “…No dictionary rquired…”


    “Necessary according to the rules or for a particular purpose.”

  146. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Does “Gregor” not come over as a programmed BOT to the rest of us humans?
    (Using the same process of multi-spamming that “Gregor” uses)… All these unnecessary dictionary definitions, for example…

    Please, Rev Stu, hit him with the Cameron B Brodie hammers!

  147. Dan says:

    @ George Ferguson

    Cheers for quick response.
    So if you and I can see the same scenario, why are the BBC and MSM effectively trying to cover the managers by deflecting and apportioning blame onto other parties.

    It really does reek of a far bigger and greater corruption than just the ferry engineering, with BBC and MSM colluding to cover arses as the money keeps flowing into what is a flawed build process.
    The end cost figure is absolutely ridiculous, especially when Stuart Ballantyne’s turn key ready to go catamarans were only £15 million each.

    I can’t help but see parallels with other events recently playing out that help create the “reality” that “Scotland” is broken, whilst those involved in creating the issues and resultant impression of brokenness siphon off huge sums of taxpayers’ cash in wages and payouts.
    It all seems a bit too orchestrated with the same mo running through them all.
    Compromise and tar the ferry building whilst creaming off taxpayers’ cash: Check
    Compromise and tar the legal system with dubious Rangers directors prosecution and resultant damages payout: Check
    Compromise and tar the “Scottish” civil service and “goverment” with Salmond carry on and damages payout: Check

  148. Dan says:

    I wonder who the buck stops with now…

    Nicola Sturgeon: Buck stops with me over ferry contract row

  149. Xaracen says:

    James Che said; “The thing is the Ratifying part of the treaty of the mythical treaty of the union was passed under domestic law in England and Scotland,
    It did not become international until later on.
    Because when it was ratified the two parliaments were still separate.”

    Oh, for god’s sake, James, the Treaty was international because it was negotiated and agreed by and between TWO separate and equally sovereign NATIONs, and then ratified by each of their respective Parliaments to bring it into effect! And even now after those Parliaments merged into one, the two Nations/Kingdoms are still separate, while both are governed from that one shared Parliament.

    Secondly, there is nothing in the Treaty that actually requires either Parliament to extinguish itself, it just requires a new Parliament to govern the new United Kingdom of Great Britain. What it did agree was that both kingdoms would have their own MPs in the new Parliament to represent the two founding kingdoms in the joint/shared governance of both.

    There is also nothing in the Treaty that says England’s MPs are allowed to overrule Scotland’s MPs. It sets numbers, but sovereignty isn’t based on arithmetic, it is based on existence within a domain. There are two sovereignties in Westminster, one English, constrained to within the borders of the English Kingdom, and one Scottish, constrained to within the borders of the Scottish Kingdom. The only sovereignty that Westminster can exert over Scotland is Scotland’s own, delegated to it via the inclusion in it of Scots MPs, and they are the embodiment of Scotland’s sovereignty in Westminster. No English MP has so much as an atom of Scottish sovereignty, only English sovereignty, and English sovereignty has no power in Scotland. Furthermore, Westminster’s delegated Scottish sovereignty is outranked by the original primary sovereignty of the Scots themselves, because that is how sovereignty works.

    “It actually would be wiser for you to check that statement out on the UK parliament site for yourself”

    There is no real value in treating the UK Parliament’s website as an authoritative source of authentic information on almost any aspect of the Union’s legal and constitutional history. There is a difference between the actual text of a historical document like a Treaty or an Act, and an analysis or commentary regarding the meaning of those documents. Dinnae trust them!

    “There is no Scottish Parliament in the Treaty of Union.”

    Neither is there an English Parliament in the Treaty of Union.

    “The 1707 treaty of union articles that were ratifying a union self destructed (itself) by extinguishing the Scottish parliament as its first priority in 1707.”

    Utter bilge! That came from A.V. Dicey in the 19th century and is a load of self gratifying tripe designed to big up England, and allow the UK Parliament to ‘take ownership’ of the English Act of Union, as the only extant legal and constitutional document of relevance to the Union. ‘Ownership’ in this case is to allow Westminster to unilaterally amend that Act on the basis that the UKP is a direct continuation of the old English Parliament that’s ‘supposed’ to be extinguished, like Scotland’s was. Dicey’s contention was that Scotland’s Act of Union ceased to have any relevance when the Scottish Parliament prorogued itself. (You confused that with the Treaty.) Apparently England’s didn’t, or its Act of Union would also cease to have relevance. He also then had to contend that once ratified, the Treaty itself passed its authority into the two Acts of Ratification, and thereafter became moribund, to ultimately leave only England’s Act of Union still standing, ready for post-Treaty manipulation in its ‘own’ home.

    Twisty, isn’t it. That’s the English establishment for you.

  150. George Ferguson says:

    The SNP leadership is going to be an extremely bruising contest. Already the doxing, undermining and the image positioning of the candidates looks brutal to quote the outgoing FM. Some of the wilder narrative is completely off the mark. Humza positioned as the Unity candidate?. Without any explanation of who the warring factions are. Kate Forbes already labelled as a right wing fundamentalist. If she gets in Nobody under 35 will stay in the SNP and so on. Robertson managing the leadership process behind closed doors. The Sunday papers will be canvassing for their particular favourite. Action packed month coming up. Some of us did say the GRRB could be existential for the SNP and Greens.

  151. Ruby says:

    Dan says:
    18 February, 2023 at 8:24 pm

    I use an ancient old HP laptop and what’s left of my brain* and still manage to search, find, and recall stuff.
    * Brain compromised by stinking cold on top of what looks evermore like Lyme’s disease symptoms.

    Well yes it’s because you are really clever even with a cold & ancient laptop.

    I on the other hand am pretty thick.

    I still don’t know what Mark MacDonald did that was so bad and on top of that unlike you I don’t know what a woman is.

  152. George Ferguson says:

    @Dan 9:39pm
    First task of the new FM. Executive action on the Ferries. A half a billion of taxpayers money. None of the options are very palatable but decisive action is needed and soon.

  153. gregor says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon

    Thankfully, I don’t have plastic (worthless) human values like you…

  154. gregor says:


    “Being, relating to, or belonging to a person or to people as opposed to animals.”

    “Of course I make mistakes, I’m only human.”

    “He’s a despicable human being!”

    “Every human being has the right to freedom from oppression.”

  155. gregor says:

    Apologies to publicly monstered/ridiculed Mr Brodie (Scotland’s shining light…)

    Scotland, apologies for these silly distractions (re. the children can’t handle @Reality)…

  156. Tinto Chiel says:

    @JGedd 3.58: sadly, Dante would have a field day with the modern SNP, particularly in placing various of its members in the two lowest circles, Eight (Fraud) and Nine (Treachery).

    He took a particularly dim view of those offences.

  157. Geoff Anderson says:

    Re Mhairi Black

    How on Earth does ending the Gender madness of the TransCult devotees move the SNP to the Right???
    The application of Common Sense and a return to Scientific/Biological Reality is neither Left or Right, it is not even Political. It is simply FACTS.

    Trying to rig candidate selections, NEC elections, Disabled list “Self Certification”, rigging candidate selection panels to eliminate believers in Biology, Sturgeon overturning Anne McLaughlin’s partners failed selection to a pass….etc ARE all political. BAD Politics.

    Mhairi Black’s TransCult have had the green light to manipulate rules and procedures such as NEC affiliates. She now resorts to the core TransCult tactic of accusing others of what you have been doing all the time.

    A belief that a Women is an Adult Human Female is NOT Right Wing Politics.

  158. President Xiden says:

    Dan 9:39 “Nicola Sturgeon: Buck stops with me over ferry contract row”

    The buck was only resting in her ‘husbands’ account.

  159. Ruby says:

    Brian Doonthetoon says:
    18 February, 2023 at 9:25 pm

    Does “Gregor” not come over as a programmed BOT to the rest of us humans?

    ‘Gregor’ comes over as someone who really hates Wings.

    He’s spamming all these ridiculous posts in the hope that everyone cancels their direct debits and stops reading Wings.

  160. Andrew scott says:

    “Not wanted on voyage”
    No dictionary required

  161. gregor says:

    @Andrew scott

    Too bad, I love Scotland and want it to succeed.

    Scotland doesn’t belong to a minority of bigoted losers…

  162. Effijy says:

    The Ferry build has turned out badly with a likely £150 million SNP overspend.
    How would something like that compare to the English Parties performance?

    Well it’s equal to Tory Chris Graylings £150 million for Brexit ships that never existed.
    Inflation sees that farce to be more costly by far and it had no end product.

    Labour built Holyrood with an estimated cost of £30 million in 1998.
    It finished in 2007 at a cost of £414.4 Million.
    The building has had many problems since and was closed for major works.
    What would an overspend of £384 Million in 2007 be valued at today- maybe £600 million?

    New Statesman headline June 2021-
    How the cost of HS2 has surged
    The high-speed rail project is now expected to cost at least £107.7bn, up from £32.7bn in 2012.

    I make that a projected Tory overspend of £75,000,000,000.
    But look what inflation has done these last 2 years as that will add another £8 Billion
    and oh, it isn’t going as far North as they proposed and quite unbelievably it seems it won’t
    reach central London now either.

    Tory Crossrail in London is currently £600,000,000 over budget.

    How nice it would be if Scotland had a fair and balanced media instead of Westminster’s distorted and corrupt propaganda churnalism.

  163. Dan says:

    George Ferguson says: at 10:01 pm

    First task of the new FM. Executive action on the Ferries. A half a billion of taxpayers money. None of the options are very palatable but decisive action is needed and soon.

    Aye, there certainly needs to be some serious consideration put in to dealing with many of the clearly neglected issues whilst disproportionate time and resources was spent on the likes of Gender woowoo and pardoning past witches.

    Finding a competent new leader is one thing, but I mentioned on another thread that they would also need to find credible folk to trust and work with to fill the various ministerial positions. Something which may be very difficult after the internecine carnage created by the departed one and her cabal.

    Not that I am very ferry wise or in any position of power or influence, but I do have a bit of engineering knowledge, have worked from big vessels and oil rigs in the offshore industry, and once bought a decent used kayak off of Gumtree…
    But even a couple of years ago I could see that it was going to cost more to complete the two long overdue and clearly compromised ferry builds than it would have cost to just sack them off and spend £30 million on a pair of proven and deliverable designs…

    I understand there is a push to progress the build of the first ferry MV Glen Sannox so it gets to a point in the contract that finance can be then be released for the 2nd build. Throwing away good money after bad?

  164. Geoff Anderson says:

    The SNP Fanzine and the Cult supporters have obviously been told to”takeout” Forbes

  165. Breastplate says:

    Confounder @ 3:49 pm,

    You specifically targeted Scottish independence for derogatory rhetoric. You are correct that I read your disdain into it but your short comment, I think merited that translation.

    You can back-pedal all you like with the “horses for course” nonsense, all this means is you think you have a get out clause stating you can change the rules whenever you like in whatever way you fancy.

    Whether Scotland joins or leaves a Union or treaty should be down to the people of Scotland and their representatives alone, we need no interference from any overbearing neighbour.

    It’s quite simple really, a country, any country, should make their own decisions, it’s called self determination and this, philosophically and psychologically speaking will always be the sunny uplands for any sovereign people.

  166. Breastplate says:

    John Main,
    I’m sorry if it’s confusing for you but if you can point out the hard bits in my comment, I will surely try to simplify it for you.

  167. gregor says:

    @Ruby, et al

    You/your hate and malicious intent speaks for itself. You don’t speak for ‘your gregor object’ (a human being).

    Furthermore, I’m going to continue celebrating Scotland and positively exploiting its awesome array of people/talents/arts/music/culture/history, etc (Scotland’s real unlimited self-power).

    @Reality wins (losers)…

  168. David says:

    Can we order a print of this. It’s so end of an era.

  169. gregor says:

    The Gracious Losers (2022): Six Roads End: Come When You’re Ready:

    “…The woman said Monday
    But she couldn’t be positive
    The man said Friday
    But that could be argued with…

    Come when you’re ready
    Not a day before…”:

  170. Ebok says:

    twathater says:
    18 February, 2023 at 5:40 pm


    Robert Hughes says:
    Twathater @ 5.40
    ‘My thoughts exactly’

    It saddened me to see two Wingers, whose views I align most closely with, effectively throw in the towel.

    Sure, politics has gone very badly wrong in this country and there is a massive disconnect between the voters’ priorities and politicians’ actions. The electorate must share the blame of course, but I think it is vital to separate the actions of the political elite from the disinterested or disheartened voter.

    The first point I’d make is that what you say about every MSP having full knowledge of what has gone on, particularly with the Salmond stitch-up, but chose to say nothing, is true, BUT it also applies to those who were the victims: Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Mark Hirst, Manny Singh and others.
    And the reason that nothing has been said or published, (and perhaps why some MSPs might have kept schtum), is the threat of jail.

    Thousands of documents have been redacted and reams of evidence locked away as the powers that be double down with threats against any hint of publication. Even the publication of Alex Salmond’s book had to be abandoned, presumably on legal advice.

    Whistleblowing is dangerous, and it takes a very courageous person to do it. Even the lead-up to the ‘rebellion’ likely started with a tentative conversation between two MSPs some time ago: by December it had only grown to 9 and it is clear they were all bullied, they were subjected to enormous daily pressure for months on end, and they received a torrent of vile online abuse. Not everyone can stand up to this kind of relentless attack.

    I have signed up with SALVO, I’d be over the moon if Independence came about because of the fantastic work they are doing. However, Indy is far more likely to come about through political means and that means having handles on the levers of power in HR.
    The obvious problem is the lack of leadership giants. They are now in ALBA, adrift from those levers.

    But there is no HR election coming anytime soon, so the best bet may be to trust Salmond. It MIGHT be the case that the ‘good people’ he believes still exist within SNP ranks are simply not yet a strong enough group to take the kind of pressure that’s being applied. We are nearing the end of 8+ disastrous years and I’m prepared to wait just a little longer to see if sanity finally prevails and enough of the ‘less wicked’ MSPs can join the rebels and pressurise the party into having a working relationship with all pro-Indy organisations.

    If those ‘good people’, who may have been biding their time hoping for this moment, gain a foothold in the current struggle for the soul of SNP they might also be able to force the lifting of some, or all, of the restrictions preventing the damning evidence being published.

    If, as is being reported, the remaining inner circle of the utterly discredited SNP hierarchy play out a sham leadership contest and arrive back where we were a week ago, then I’ll be fully behind you Twathater, and I’d expect the good people that Alex knows in SNP to recognise that THIS would be their final opportunity to defect to ALBA or become an Independent.

  171. George Ferguson says:

    @Dan 11:10pm
    1 The famed “Do Nothing option”. That’s been the tactics to date. Problem with that is there is still no guarantee of two Ferries and no cap on the spend.
    2 Stop all expenditure immediately and abandon the vessels. In financial parlance, vessels treated as “Sunk” costs. Political fallout from this one.
    3 Abandon Hull 802 and keep the yard going on Glen Sannox. Innovative solutions to procure alternative Ferries.
    To put it into general context the overspend on the Ferries will wipe out the new tax raised by the budget increases. I am sure Scots wouldn’t mind tax increases if spent on NHS , Education and so on. I am pretty sure they would mind that it was wasted on Ferries.

  172. Robert Hughes says:

    @ Ebok

    Got a lot of respect for you too , compadre , but I think you’ve misinterpreted the intent of my previous comment .

    I’ve not given-up on Independence ; at all . On the contrary , never have I desired it more , or felt it to be more urgently needed .

    I have though given-up on the SNP as a credible political entity / vehicle capable of delivering us to Independence . Not sure how much more evidence is required to demonstrate how thoroughly ruined that Party is .

    Even now , after the panicked ( though welcome ) exit of the greatest failure in modern Scottish political history ( name a greater ) and the truly appalling trail of carnage that is her real * legacy * , the fat controller * husband * is still squatting like a recalcitrant turd in the u-bend of the SNP toilet : blocking any meaningful change in direction & ensuring the chosen successor is deterred from / uninterested in bringing out the buried corpses and dragging into the light of day those that buried them .

    If a day ever comes when the the culprits of this last 8 year long reign of error are named and their victims – somehow – compensated , even if only in the form of an apology , I might be able to think less harshly of the Party .

    Can’t see that day ever dawning : can you ?

    We need something more than another Political Party – even ALBA , which , though comprised of good , honourable , committed people , needs – IMHO – to lose it’s ” once and future king ” ( re A.S ) fantasy , which is simply that ..fantasy . No offence intended . It’s not his fault .

    Like you , I support and am encouraged by the great work being done by SALVO : for me , they hold-out the most potentially fruitful prospect of advancing our cause . Just wish more of us would get behind them .

    Ultimately , the old ” Scotland will become Independent when enough Scots/Scottish residents want it enough ” trope is an accurate – if kinda self-evident – truism .

    The question is – as it’s always been – how do you persuade/convince that elusive ” enough Scots/S.R ” Independence is the best possible option ?

    If nothing else , the last 8 years should prove beyond any scintilla of doubt that Personality/Identity Politics is NOT the way .

  173. Breeks says:

    Ebok says:
    19 February, 2023 at 6:23 am

    I have signed up with SALVO, I’d be over the moon if Independence came about because of the fantastic work they are doing. However, Indy is far more likely to come about through political means and that means having handles on the levers of power in HR.

    Independence is going to take everything. SALVO constitutionally, a political body is needed to amass popular support, a trade body, an International liaison body to interact with the UN, another body is required to prepare the infrastructure for Scotland’s smooth transition to Independence to make sure the new Scottish state has cohesion and substance, and an actual plan for Independence Day +1 and beyond.

    All of that needs coordinated, and physically done; not just stuck on the “To Do” list for eight bloody years with NOTHING of any consequence prepared beyond bland and amateurish “Independence Papers” which are designed to be stuck to a stick and waved about like a flag to pretend you’ve been doing stuff.

    There are issues needing resolved. Nevermind the BritNats trying to disrupt us, there are deeply seated disagreements about important issues. For example, SNP’s Growth Commission makes the blood run run cold, Richard Murphy is confident a seceding Scotland would be debt free, but I have serious doubts that Scottish Independence is an act of secession.

    Scotland’s departure from the UK “ends” the United Kingdom, it is not a secession from it. I believe Scotland “may” incur a per capita portion of UK debt, BUT even here, SALVO are saying constructive things about Scotland’s territory and assets. The sums involved for the theft of Scotland’s assets “might” dwarf the nominal share of UK debt. This is important stuff, and in my humble opinion cannot be left as theory.

    There is so much to be clarified, and frequently codified, about the chain of command in an Independence Body aligned with Scotland’s Red Sovereignty and the Claim of Right, and clear and unequivocal distinctions realised about what powers and sovereignty Westminster does and doesn’t have.

    For example, Westminster co-opts Scotland’s sovereignty rather than subjugates it, (Brexit not withstanding), and does by means of unwritten conventions. Personally I believe Scotland’s Constitution is far better codified than many would have us believe. I believe Scotland’s Constitutional legacy will trump Westminster’s unwritten conventions, but enough talk. Let’s get them trumped and the truth revealed.

    All of this “team” needs coordinated by what in effect will be the “Government in Waiting” of an Independent Scotland, or more likely, an interim or transitional Government pending fresh Elections. I think this transitional role is where our Convention of the Estates fits into the equation… as instigator, coordinator, and facilitator for the transition.

    The Holyrood Assembly was perfectly placed to administer this, but they’ve done NOTHING, and in fact, badly compromised and largely destroyed Holyrood’s constitutional potency.

    The biggest anxiety I feel about SALVO’s strategy is not that I don’t think it will work, but that I think it will work, and the demise of the Union could be upon us much sooner than we anticipate, and we find ourselves ill prepared and close to anarchy because the preliminaries have not been done.

    I feel we need to have a handbrake built in to SALVO’s work so it doesn’t become a runaway train, but at the same time, SALVO’s productivity is putting all of our political parties in the shade, and the political wing needs to see some heads being cracked together so that we are no longer paralysed by division.

    I know Rev Stu is dismissive of a Westminster 30 seat majority being a mandate for Independence, but I disagree. I accept we’d be on thin ice pushing for full Independence on such a shoogily threshold, particularly if support for Independence was a minority, but that ISN’T how the 30 seat mandate should be used.

    The 30 seat mandate should not be the end of the Union, but put Scotland into an interim / transitional status, where the sovereignty of the UK is formally disputed and effectively put on trial.

    In essence, we essentially do have a UDI of sorts, but it has an interim stage, a status very similar indeed to Brexit’s Article 50 notification, where there was a declared intention to leave made my a sovereign signatory of the Treaty, but the process was orderly, and designed to allow a controlled process of economic disentanglement, OR have a cooling off period to reconsider the decision. There was a start, a middle, and an end to the process, and a sovereign prerogative to call it all off if there was a change of heart.

    “That” is the status which can be asserted with a 30 seat majority in Westminster, and the “mini” democracy of a Westminster First Past the Post victory is ratified later, during the End process, by a Scottish Ratification Plebiscite to held before the Transitional Period expires.

    The Movement needs Leadership and Co-ordination, but we need to assemble under the saltire of Scotland’s Red Sovereignty, where sovereignty belongs to the Community of the Realm.

    Me must resist the convenience and expediency of co-opting UK Institutions which might look like progressive undertakings, but they embody the white sovereignty of Westminster and present the British State with a degree of invasive colonial control over Scotland’s sovereign people.

    I’m sorry the news will come as a disappointment to some, but right now, the ONLY politician making the right noise is that Mr Salmond fella, saying we need to launch the lifeboat for Scotland, with Independence separated from any one political Party. Spot on.

    I agree. But that “Lifeboat” in my opinion is a lobby of 30+ Scottish MP’s pledged to the ascendancy of the Scottish Sovereignty and the Claim of Right, and putting Scotland into a Constitutional holding pen status, to allow a disputed Union and bogus UK Parliamentary sovereignty to be debunked, and running parallel with that process, Scotland constructs the necessary infrastructure to facilitate independence.

    If I trusted them to do it, I’m sure the present crop of SNP MP’s could do this without the need for a General Election. They could use the outrageous affront to Scotland’s Claim of Right presented by the UK Supreme Court attempting to gag Scotland’s sovereign democracy as the outrage to spark the revolution. They could do it, but I fear they have no grasp of the situation.

    Forget Holyrood. The whole thing is a mess. Pull the plug out and at least save on electricity.

    Scotland needs 30+ Independence MP’s elected to Westminster on a Plebiscite Election ticket. If we’re smart about it, we fight that UK General Election not as SNP / ALBA, but as a Scotland United YES Movement on the binary manifesto that a vote for us is a vote for Independence.

    Stop wasting our time and resource trying to fix the SNP. Leave behind this dogs breakfast created by Sturgeon and Stonewall. Let us focus on what NEEDS to be done to get that 30+ seat Westminster Lifeboat watertight and ready to be launched.

    That means SALVO and The Convention of the Estates needs your immediate support, and we need an Independence Convention to structure and codify our Movement, develop a command structure for it, and delegate what needs to be done to the appropriate battalion who then do it.

    This Holyrood Soap Opera isn’t a plebiscite election, it’s a placebo election. It won’t actually change anything, but just convince the people something’s happening when it’s not. We’ve had eight dreary years of that shite. No more.

    Sorry for the long comment, but hey, it’s Sunday.

  174. Effijy says:

    Very disappointed by Flynn on the Kuenessburg show.

    He said Brexit is a disaster and the Tory counter was the great vaccine roll out.

    Why doesn’t he squash that lie as we were in the EU when it happened.

    Are the SNP officials uninformed or too polite to interrupt a lying Tory on a Unionist show.

    No wonder we are where we are with them.

  175. Geoff Anderson says:

    Statement by Ash Regan

    “ Since the independence referendum in 2014 the SNP has secured overwhelming victories in three general elections and two Holyrood elections. We have won the democratic right to have another referendum but every time we have asked Westminster for a section 30 order, it has been declined. This is a democratic deficit, only compounded by the Supreme Court Ruling in November that the Scottish Parliament does not have the legal right to hold a referendum. We can only hold one if it is granted by Westminster. However despite multiple requests, the Westminster Government has not stated under what conditions the Section 30 order would ever be granted. It is quite clear that the Westminster Government will not allow allow us to pursue our path to self determination under any circumstances.

    On my first day as leader, I will call for an independence convention to be held. This will involve all pro-independence parties, independence organisations, think-tanks and civil society to organise a new independence campaign body. We will create a new vision of an independent Scotland. We will build coalitions, reach out across all of the society and secure a pro-independence majority, which cannot be ignored.

    The path to independence also lies in strong, effective government. As First Minister I will focus on the nations priorities; NHS recovery, the cost of living crisis, the economy, creating high value jobs, education and the environment. My cabinet would be comprised of of the very best people and in the right roles. They will be empowered to run their own briefs, and expected to deliver for the people of scotland. With competency, we win trust and with trust we advance towards self-determination.

    I propose that we take control of the process towards independence ourselves. If pro-independence parties; with a clear mandate for such actions in their manifestos have more than 50%+1 of the votes cast in a Westminster or Holyrood election, this will be a clear instruction that Scotland wishes to be an independent nation. We will invite the Westminster Government to the Scottish
    Government to commence negotiations and a time frame for Scotland’s withdrawal from the UK.

    These proposals will be taken to conference for consideration.
    No ifs, no buts. Independence – nothing less.”

  176. Bob Mack says:

    Hearing Ash Regan has put her hat in the ring. Is this accurate?

  177. Heaver says:

    Dear Ash Regan. Also as a priority separate the judiciary from government interference.

  178. Big Jock says:

    Geoff. I like Ash’s statement. Probably why she won’t get the gig though. To radical. Let’s see what Forbes intention is. The two of them together would be the dream team.

  179. Big Jock says:

    Hamza has declared. That man’s ego has no limits. He would be a disaster.

    Meanwhile Harvie has said the Greens would end the coalition if Forbes gets it. Bruce bonus for us all. She is obviously far to normal for him!

  180. Breeks says:

    Just to add, that interim / transitional Scottish “shadow” Government might have to hit the ground running.

    Just because a caucus of Scottish MP’s decide to be awkward and formally dispute the veracity of UK Parliamentary sovereignty, don’t expect Westminster to roll over.

    If our 30+ were elected on No manifesto beyond Independence, Westminster could simply withdraw all Governmental services, revenue and cooperation, and leave Scotland broke and mired in chaos. What would be our contingency in that event?

    That “interim” Government would need to be ready, and ready to act like a fully sovereign Government from the moment it was born.

    It needs a lot more substance behind it, over and above 30+ MP’s.

    Sturgeon created a wasteland. She should have created a forest.

  181. Geoff Anderson says:

    Effigy @ 9:35am

    Exactly, the “polite” Westminster conditioning. He knows his place. Today he demonstrated why removing Politicians from Westminster is the correct thing to do….The Irish demonstrated this 100 years ago.
    Why do we enter their playpen and follow their rules?

  182. Viscount Ennui says:

    One fatal error being made about the route to independence is that the YES movement has conducted insufficient research into the Don’t Knows (DK) and the softer NO voters.
    I suspect that there are 3 reasons to consider and these both require a more nuanced appreciation of both camps:
    1. There are many voters who are innately sympathetic to independence but who feel that insufficient information has been given to them about the future currency, pensions, EU membership etc, and who are inclined towards cynicism in the absence of a clear economic/political strategy for an independent nation.
    2. The same voters are also sceptical of the ‘ability’ of Scots to self-govern given the appalling record of the SNP across so many policy areas, and especially in terms of business. The current Scottish government is incompetent and that fact cannot be disguised.
    3. The SNP is corrupt and very obviously so. It is not the financial corruption of WM but very different in character and perhaps more disturbingly so. A Lord Advocate who admits to pursuing malicious prsecutions against innocent men, an Ombudsman who admits to lying, every civic institution infected by a party-political malaise despite professing to independence from Bute House. It is all plain to see.
    NS’s failure to convince, let’s say 55% of the population that Scotland can do better than a hopeless Tory government is testimony to a failed strategy based on building grievance and division, which may work for the committed 40% but not for that middle-ground of the electorate.
    I am afraid that the damage has been done and it willtke at least a decade to recover.

  183. Ottomanboi says:

    A Wee Fairy Tale from Val Mac Dermid.
    Nicola & Me.
    & that gender cockup Val?
    J.K.Rowling, woke misogyny etc
    Must be a lesbian bonding thing.

  184. President Xiden says:

    Now that the Scottish media have grown a pair, maybe they could ask the dear soon to be ex leader why exactly did all those lawyers resign from the Covid inquiry? What exactly did they find out ?

  185. Big Jock says:

    Otto – it seems that LGBT has taken over everything. I couldn’t care less about sexuality. But I am just absolutely bored hearing about this everyday.

    Can we just get back to politics. Hopefully with Sturgeon gone, we can get back to actual politics and economics.

  186. Alf Baird says:

    Dan @ 11:10 pm

    “Throwing away good money after bad?”

    Ferries were clearly too much for Sturgeon’s gang to deal with. The key problems are outlined here:

    And the solutions here:

    Though in truth there is not much you can do with rotten institutions which, in a colonial society, operate only to protect the interest of the colonizer and to oppress and hold back development of the colonized. Which is why independence is also about removing and replacing the colonizer’s institutions:

  187. Ottomanboi says:

    The SNP is not a Unionist satrap, existing to make their devolution work, to give respectability to a latter day superannuated imperialism.
    The SNP IS a «one trick pony».
    To use a linguistic parallel from Winston Churchill,
    Some trick, Some pony.
    Be proud of it!

  188. stuart mctavish says:


    “dont expect westminster to roll over”

    As secret plans go, hats off and brief moment of respect to whoever came up with the one about nukes on the Clyde being run by sticky fingered men in skirts profiteering from common cold wars of the type that could put hindus in Downing St, muslims in Bute house and cashmere either side of the border

  189. Dorothy Devine says:

    Just read a load of old codswallop about Scotland/Sturgeon/Independence in the Guardian and to top it all a Dani Garavelli piece which reminded me of ‘jigsaw’ recognition and the inaction against journalists and the evil action against Craig Murray.

    Lovely start to the day!

  190. Alf Baird says:

    Viscount Ennui @ 10:11 am

    “NS’s failure to convince, let’s say 55% of the population”

    Lets not forget what happens to a colonial society due to long-term intentional population displacement and enforced cultural assimilation. Colonialism is the reason the vote split in Scotland today is between those who identify as Scots and those who identify as Brits. If Scotland had never been colonised its fowk wad maistly bi Scots the day, an widnae bi confuised aboot thair naitional identitie.

    In this regard our culture and language, which is what give us our national identity and national consciousness, are critical factors. Peoples in self-determination conflict are always linguistically divided, and an independence movement depends on the solidarity of the oppressed ethnic group, in our case Scots speakers.

  191. gregor says:

    Mark Irvine (18/02/2023): Sturgeon, Self-ID and the SNP:

    “…things are bound to get worse for her successor unless the SNP drops Sturgeon’s self-ID bill and abandon support for the policy of men magically declaring themselves to be women…

    Glasgow band Orange Juice might have written ‘Rip It Up And Start Again’ with Nicola Sturgeon’s Self-ID bill in mind.

    Because after a torrid few weeks Nicola has become the SNP’s biggest liability…”:

  192. mark says:


    You don’t seem to be aware that the Rangers prosecutions all took place when Frank Mulholland was Lord Advocate. He is now a judge. James Wolffe had nothing to do with the cases but inherited the mess when he was appointed LA.

  193. mark says:


    The UK vaccine rollout had nothing to do with the EU.

  194. gregor says:

    Sam Taylor (19/02/2023): Twitter: Video:

    “Ian Blackford unwilling to say “yes” when asked if Peter Murrell should remain Chief Executive of the SNP. #BBCSundayShow”:

  195. akenaton says:

    It’s a poisoned chalice, I have a lot of respect for those who want to get rid of the whole gang, but in truth this is impossible.

    Regan and Forbes seem the only sensible choices, but Regan in particular strikes me as a bit of an opportunist who read the runes before sturgeons demise. Forbes strikes me as the one to deliver the sort of country in which I would want to spend the rest of my days. Her much condemned views on Gay marriage, Abortion, The Family and other issues important to a population of mainly elderly people and a growing number of immigrants with conservative social views will be, I think, well received.

    It all may be too soon as the Murrell shop front disintegrates, there may be a reaction against Independence. Politics can sometimes resemble a stampeding herd of Wildebeest, driven by panic and lacking the understanding of why they are doing so.

    Interesting times indeed.

  196. Cactus says:

    Peter ‘The Maw’ Murrell is hiding behind the big dark tree, left of the Ex-FM.

    And every story has two sides.

    “Oh so long Marianne:”

  197. gregor says:

    Reduxx (19/02/2023): Twitter: Video:

    “Reduxx would like to extend its warmest wishes to Scotland’s First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, following news of her resignation. Nicola, thank you for all you’ve done for women… especially the ones with penises and rape convictions.”:

  198. gregor says:

    Joe Biden (18/02/2023): Twit:

    “76% of the Article III judges confirmed under our watch have been women, and 68% have been people of color. We are making important progress in ensuring the federal judiciary represents the diversity of our nation.”:

  199. gregor says:


    “The fact of many different types of things or people being included in something; a range of different things or people.”

    “The condition or fact of being different or varied; variety.”

    “Genetic/biological diversity.”

    “cultural/ethnic diversity.”

    “We are an equal opportunities employer committed to diversity in the workplace.”

  200. gregor says:

    Scottish Force (2019): Unity In Diversity (feat. Dem Franchize Boyz):

    (“Any samples used within the track are royalty free and in the public domain…”):

  201. gregor says:

    Pete Wishart (19/02/2023): Twit:

    “The policy of the SNP is to keep the Queen/now King and become part of the Commonwealth. To win independence we need to have the support of those who value the monarchy. We won’t without them.”:

  202. gregor says:


    “If you say that someone or something needs something else, you mean that they should have it, or would get an advantage from having it.”

    “Someone who is in need of something must or should have it.”

    “They’re in need of help.”

  203. gregor says:


    “A person who thinks that bad things are more likely to happen or who emphasizes the bad part of a situation.”

    “Don’t be such a pessimist!”

    “Why such a skeptic and pessimist should dedicate himself to a life of public service is hard to fathom.”

  204. gregor says:

    John M. Caie: The Pessimist:

    “…There’s little peace in the wardle
    An’ the outlook is far fae bricht
    I said in ’14 we’d be fechtin’ seen
    Gweed kens, I was richt

    Gin ye see nae tribble afore ye
    Ye’d best gie your glesses a dicht
    It winna be lang or things ‘ll gang vrang
    They’re never aye richt

    It’s nae ‘t fae birth I’ve been scunnert
    At life, although fairly I micht
    But scunner or no, fat’s comin’ll show
    I’m perfec’ly richt…”:

  205. gregor says:

    Elon Musk (19/02/2023): Twitter:

    Dr Jordan B Peterson:

    “Do not trust anyone who uses the words “disinformation” or “misinformation.” What they mean is “opinions that run contrary to mine that I should be allowed to suppress.”

    Replying to @jordanbpeterson:

    “I mean nobody is *that* smart”:

  206. gregor says:

    NationalScot (08/02/2023): SNP MP concerned about ‘disinformation attack’ after emails hacked:

    “An SNP MP has said he fears he may be the victim of a “disinformation attack” as he claimed his personal email account has been hacked…”:

  207. gregor says:

    Pete Wishart 19/02/2023): Twit:

    “I would continue to support a constitutional monarchy and would settle for the same type of arrangement as Australia and Canada. Then again, that’s just me…..”:

  208. gregor says:


    “To relax into a comfortable position.”

    “To move to a lower level and stay there; to drop.”

    “To pay, especially money that you owe.”

    “Payment of your account is now overdue, and we must ask you to settle (= pay the money you owe) immediately.”

  209. gregor says:

    Georgia Edkins (19/02/2023): Twitter:

    “Operation stop Kate Forbes in full swing from top brass of SNP, insiders claim… #tomorrowspaperstoday”:

  210. gregor says:

    Lin (19/02/2023): Twitter:

    “I thought I was trans at 16. Now I’m 26 and I know I’m just a gender non conforming lesbian.

    This is grooming children into medical transition and child abuse.”:

  211. gregor says:

    Susan Larson (19/02/2023): Twit:

    “Being anti-trans should be a felony, because it’s an innate unchangable characteristic.”:

  212. gregor says:


    “A serious crime that can be punished by one or more years in prison.”

  213. gregor says:


    “Opposed to or against a particular thing or person.”

    “Just because I won’t join you, it doesn’t mean that I’m anti you.”

    “The pros made their case and the antis made theirs.”

  214. gregor says:


    “A typical or noticeable quality of someone or something.”

    “The male bird displays (= has) several characteristics which distinguish him from the female.”

    “Pride is not an attractive characteristic.”

  215. gregor says:

    Stonewall (2023): The truth about trans: For people who are hungry for real info:

    Is it true that lots of people change their mind about their transition?

    “People detransition for many reasons, and detransition does not, in and of itself, mean regret. It can mean that a person no longer identifies as trans, or that they feel they are now a different gender to the one they previously identified as…”:

  216. gregor says:

    Joanna Cherry KC (19/02/2023): Twitter:

    “It never ceases to amaze me how many straight men who have no history of meaningful engagement with feminism or the struggle for LGB equality & a hazy grasp of equality & #HumanRights law presume to lecture those of us who do on the impacts of #SelfID of sex”:

  217. gregor says:

    Garbage (2015): Sub Human (Supersize Mix):

    “…Kill the new religion
    No inhibition
    No alibi
    Televised confession
    A true obsession
    Is on the rise
    A perfect waste
    Bite the sacred apple
    And suck the poison
    Enjoy the taste

    You’re going down, down, down
    How low can you go?..”:

  218. George Ferguson says:

    @Gregor 9:34pm
    Was that really a tweet from J Cherry KC?
    Here is a fix..
    “It never ceases to amaze me that straight men who have lots of children and grandchildren and have a long term relationship with their wife failed to understand the narrow viewpoint of a minority of special interest groups imposing their cultural dominance on everybody else”.

  219. gregor says:

    @George Ferguson

    The Tweet is authentic.

    It would appear that woke gender reform has deeply offended, confused and divided – an ever increasing number of people (essentially, all forms/species of humans).

    @Reality will bring humanity to its senses…

  220. gregor says:

    Stewart McDonald MP Retweeted (19/02/2023):

    “…R(redacted)a only brings death and destruction. It must be defeated”:

  221. gregor says:

    UK Gov: Official Statistics: Weekly all-cause mortality surveillance (week 7 report, up to week 3 2023 data):

    Updated 16 February 2023:

    “Excess mortality by UK country, for all ages (statistically significant excess all-cause mortality):


    Excess detected in week 3 2023? Yes

    Weeks with excess since week 20 2022:

    Scotland: 38, 40, 42, 45, 49 to 3…”:

  222. gregor says:

    The Spectator (19/02/2023): The SNP-Green coalition is unlikely to last the week:

    “…legislative time bomb in the Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which is due to go off just as their new leader is installed at the end of March. 

    It will probably destroy the Scottish coalition…”:

  223. gregor says:

    StonewallUK (16/02/2023): Twit:

    “Want to be included in our next Top Employer list, but don’t know where to start? The Diversity Champions Programme is here to help! Join today to transform your workplace into one that attracts, retains & nurtures LGBTQ+ employees”:

  224. gregor says:


    “To take care of, feed, and protect someone or something, especially young children or plants, and help him, her, or it to develop.”

    “The way in which children are treated as they are growing, especially as compared with the characteristics they are born with.”

    “Which do you believe has the strongest influence on how children develop – nature or nurture?”

  225. gregor says:

    UnHerd (17/02/2023): Nicola Sturgeon is rewriting history (She purged reason from the gender debate):

    “…Sturgeon’s government that funded one of the main engines of transactivist insanity…

    Scottish culture has a long and justly famed tradition of valuing independent thinking. There is a rejection of closed hierarchies of power, and a habit of nose-thumbing authority figures. Outward appearances of prestige are supposed to mean little, and the lowliest and poorest member of society is thought equal to the most powerful and well-connected…

    Politicians are generally good at rewriting history. In the general Great Forgetting which, I assume, will follow the eventual Great Resetting…”:

  226. gregor says:

    Pete Wishart (19/02/2023): Twit:

    “If you want to lose an independence referendum you go about it by alienating large sections of those who just might vote for you.”:

  227. What Rot says:

    “Other stuff”.

    This one took my breath away. Perfect phrasing, perfect image.

    I hope Sturgeon has seen it and I hope the simple, calamitous, heartbreaking and tragic truth of it hits her like a stab in the guts.

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