The REAL reason Labour fear the SNP
For some time, readers, we’ve been puzzling to ourselves about quite why the idea of having to work with the SNP in the UK parliament enrages the Labour Party quite so much. Because it doesn’t make any rational sense.
Indeed, on any intelligent analysis the arrangement currently suggested by opinion polls is a dream outcome for the party. Think about it logically for a moment. Minority government lifts the burden of responsibility from your shoulders – there’s always someone else to blame if you bail on a manifesto promise, because you can say “We didn’t have a majority to push it through”.
(The SNP, it should of course be recorded, took advantage of this benefit of minority government more than once at Holyrood between 2007 and 2011)
But in Labour’s specific case in 2015, there’s what seems an even bigger boon.
That’s because – if the result is as the current polls suggest – Labour would find itself in the relative ideological centre, in between the other two significant Westminster groupings. That wasn’t true for the SNP in 2007, which was to the left of all the other three parties, but it’d be true for Ed Miliband, whose party is more left-wing than the Tories but more right-wing than Nicola Sturgeon’s Nats.
And that opens up a fascinating scenario. Because what it means is that Labour can in theory pass pretty much any policy it wants. If it wants to make any left-wing, redistributive changes, it can get them through with the backing of the SNP. But if it wants to pursue Trident renewal, welfare cuts and the rest of its centre-right agenda, policies opposed by the SNP, the Tories will vote for them.
It’s a perfect storm of political opportunity. Effective total power, but buffered with a ready-made excuse. Renew Trident, attack welfare and immigration, then dare the SNP to vote down a budget increasing taxes on the wealthy, knowing that if they do you get to misrepresent it endlessly for the next 35 years.
(Because the 1979 stuff is getting really, really tired when half the electorate wasn’t even born then, let alone what a weak argument it was in the first place.)
So why are Labour so frightened of it that half the party is furiously urging the leadership to categorically and pre-emptively rule out any sort of co-operation with the SNP? The answer is simple: because it would reveal Labour’s soul.
When you have a free pass to enact whatever laws you like while also being able to evade responsibility, everything you do reveals your true nature in a way that having a majority doesn’t. Labour couldn’t blame anyone else for, say, the brutal assault on civil liberties it carried out under Tony Blair:
But it largely gets to snivel its way out of bringing death and chaos on an epic scale to Iraq because it was enthusiastically supported by the Tories (as seen in their curious reluctance to hurry on the Chilcot Inquiry).
As the centre party in a three-way power game, it could always deflect culpability left or right. But that’s a double-edged sword, because rather than the lazy unthinking arrogance of absolute power, it would be actively choosing sides on every issue. And just like Iraq, while it could bluff and bluster its way out of it politically, never being held properly accountable by the press, voters would notice.
Labour won more elections after Iraq, but it shed millions of votes which have never come back. Similarly, it had the entire media in Scotland on its side during the referendum, and has attracted almost no criticism in newspapers or on TV for being allied to the Tories for three years, but the electorate knows what went on.
The SNP surge since last September hasn’t been driven by that media, which remains almost uniformly hostile. It comes from grassroots popular opinion, unrepresented in newsprint or on the airwaves and voiced largely online. It’s made up of voters coming to their own judgements based on what they saw with their own eyes, and the result has been a large-scale defection from Labour to the SNP.
(The phenomenon is also taking hold elsewhere, but more slowly, because the likes of UKIP are a much less comfortable alternative for disaffected Labour voters than the social-democratic SNP.)
The Labour leadership knows that the agenda it wants to pursue is massively at odds with the beliefs of its traditional core vote. It knows that with a political blank cheque in government, its supporters will watch the people who stole their party from them displaying their true (centre-right neoliberal) selves, and there’ll be no hiding place.
That could be the final straw that shatters the spine of Labour voters’ faith, the crack that bursts the dam. An election that leaves Labour reliant on the SNP to form a government will force Ed Miliband, Ed Balls et al to look squarely in the mirror every day for the next five years, and that’s a prospect that terrifies them to their bones.
Absolutely spot on!
Brilliant analysis. As you say the reason that Scottish voters have left Labour and are likely never to return is that we know that not only have they been caught repeatedly lying to us (and still are – Hello! We’re actually still here!), but they are also lying to themselves. I mean, what do they actually stand for anymore?
As you say, governance with the selective support of the SNP (and or the Tories) will reveal and enforce a kind of self-awareness that could very well tear the party apart and destroy its core support in England too, as it has to face up to itself and what it really is at every turn.
Excellent analysis Stu they let their mask slip during the ref campaign and we all saw them in their true Red Tory clothes..
“Because it doesn’t make any rational sense.”
If UK Labour is prepared to work with SNP at Westminster, and if this is a sustainable position in the longer term, then why would people vote for “Scottish” Labour.
Basically, UK Labour would be accepting SNP MPs are subsitutes for their own; why would anyone then vote Labour?
It puts the Labour Party in Scotland in jeopardy. That’s the rational sense.
You must get right on Duncan Hothersall’s tits.. 😀
It’s also a matter of unforgiveness. It was the Alex Salmond and the SNP wot done it (by having a referendum)and they will never be forgiven by the red tories. For that reason alone, many could not contemplate working with the SNP.
The referendum certainly blew the cover from a large number of “maverick” red tories and chancers like George Galloway, who for all the bluster, were effectively outed as being part of the British establishment, right down to the core. The Labour party is full of socialist ringers who love to strut about, like champions of the people. However, during the referendum, push came to shove and all those chancers and pseudo-socialists were fully exposed, warts and all.
The eyes of the people were opened, and did not like what they saw.
Another great article Rev but I’d just like to throw this into the mix. Isn’t it possible that all three Westminster parties may just be terrified of the SNP getting anywhere near government as wouldn’t that give them full access to ‘the books’
I realise that the SNP are not proposing a formal coalition, but wouldn’t they be privy to a lot more financial information, both current and historical following a formal agreement with Labour
I don’t know how you do it.
Your ability to dissect and clearly expose the inner workings of politics for everyone to see is just simply awesome.
…Ed Miliband, whose party is more left-wing than the Tories but more right-wing than Nicola Sturgeon’s Nats.
– From what I can make out of Rachel Reeves’s foaming-mouthed hatred of the working class, as expressed in her BBC Sunday Politics and Telegraph interviews, Labour are to the right of the Tories on welfare and to the right of UKIP on immigration.
Sorry to go off topic so soon. Having to go out so posting now.
link to commentisntfree.com
Do you really think they’re bright enough or self-aware enough to have worked this out?
Hmm, I wouldn’t think Labour thinks that strategically about being supported by the SNP as you suggest. I think the reason is more botched.
For starters, Milliband probably believes in devolution and thus does not wish to trot on SLAB’s toes if he doesn’t have to. He may also not understand Scotland that well and not be in a strong enough position to micro-manage. Which means that Murphy is probably right when he says he’s no branch office anymore. But the flip side is that tactics towards the SNP is really based on seeing things through the rage that SLAB is so (in-)famous for.
I mean Milliband’s line is quite clear so far – not rulling anything out about working with the SNP after the elections, speak generically about being ‘better together’ and leave the rest to Murphy.
Brilliant Stu. More ammo.
The latest polls suggest the Tories will be walking through the front door of No. 10.
Who do you think will be the new Labour leader come May 8th? Will Jim Murphy throw his Scotland top into the ring?
This is piece taken from an article I wrote for WGD some time ago.
“The question I would ask you is, do you really need a battery of government experts and a cadre of media barons to tell you what’s what? Or can you, based on your own experience, principles and common sense, make an informed decision without their help?”
It seems people are beginning to look past the politicians, the paid experts and the media. People are more than capable, they always were. They simply needed to be given the encouragement, the opportunity to rebuild their self belief and last, but by no means least, get mad enough.
Blimey Stu – I knew this but couldn’t articulate it. The big fear is ‘being found out’ by rUk for sure and I am equally certain that the ticking time bomb that Osborne has planted means nobody wants to win. I’m no lover of politicians (I think for the most part they are either devious or stupid or both) but even my credibility has been stretched by the recent incompetence of the main parties – nobody could be that stupid could they? So it must be, in my model anyway, that they are devious.
It is without a doubt an entertaining situation. 🙂
Of course the reason that Cameron and the Tories are beside themselves with fury over a potential Labour SNP deal is that the runes suggest that it will boot him out of No 10…or, if Cameron insists on going for a minority Government, Labour and the SNP can block his every mental move.
There is no moral objection to the SNP helping Ed move his bags into No 10. Cameron’s panic is that it might actually work and prove popular to boot.
“So why are Labour so terrified of it that half the party is furiously urging the leadership to categorically and pre-emptively rule out any sort of co-operation with the SNP? The answer is simple: because it would reveal Labour’s soul.”
I suspect it’s even more straightforward for most Labour MPs in Scotland – they’re terrified of having to find another job. Who would employ a useless turd like Brian Donohoe, for instance?
Nicola on fire at FMQs worth a watch
Good analysis.
Labour have seen in Scotland what happens when their true identity becomes known widely by the electorate. Their initially half hearted attitude to devolution and more recent opposition to it. Their behaviour when in power at WM. Their siding with Tories in both BT and at WM. All this contrasted by the competent more left leaning SNP.
English voters haven’t yet viewed Labour in the same way as we Scots now do. Yet!
Labour’s big fear is that they do!
Question is, though … where do centre left leaning English voters turn?
Rev-the one that sticks in my mind is your expose of the 1979 thatcher vote when you revealed that one Dennis Skinner helped bring the Tories in to power with his vote against the Labour govt. yet he is still seen to this day as a great anti-establishment rebel. Another chancer.
Cue music for Michael Jackson`s Man in the Mirror, closely followed by Dusty`s Goin` Back.
Come on Ed you know you can do it, you don`t like or trust Jim Murphy. Reclaim the heart and soul of the Labour party from the Blair faction and let the SNP show you how to build fairer, more socially just countries, free from but friendly with each other.
Book your place in history starting 8th May.
Very good,Rev.
Labour also fear us because we are young and vibrant and they are old and smelly.
Labour AND Westminster fear the SNP because the SNP will awaken the sleeping English electorate, to show them that there IS another way to Govern your country.
England needs a left of centre Party similar to the SNP.
I think it might come from the eventual break up of the present UK Labour Party.
Gillie, wouldn’t that require Jim Murphy to be re-elected as an MP on May 7th?
Good article, but I wonder if the massive influx of new SNP members (which will inevitably take them from the centre ground, to the centre-left) will leave a void in potential supporters of independence?
Don’t get me wrong, I despise the authoritarian right of the Lib-Lab-Con-UKIP kind, but the SNP’s success has in no small part been due to their firm hold of the centre ground and maintaining of a broad church of left and (libertarian) right.
Could the emergence of dynamic, forward-thinking, Scottish-centric right-of-centre groups like Wealthy Nation and the Scottish Democratic Alliance be a key to not only introducing diversity to our YES movement, not only to re-aligning Scottish politics, but to growing the middle class support for independence in general?
A light hearted aside;4.40.Cheltenham-Bless the Wings.
Jackie Baillie’s pick’n’mix keep ma joab politics is annoying me.
When out canvassing, the most angry folk are the Labour voters.
The conservative voters are quite happy to tell us that but the Lab supporters either snarl their vote or shut the door in your face.
Absolutely spot on.
Slightly o/t just received a leaflet from the Tories saying only the Conservatives can beat the SNP in Dumfries and Galloway. Not quite saying in as many words “vote Labour get SNP” but that is the message. Is this the first time this has been tried in Scotland?
Russell Brown had better get out and get those pensioners frightened again.
I disagree with the analysis.
Its far more simple and tribal than that.
The SNP are taking their property.
What they fear is that they cannot respond in any sane way. The SNP are bad because they are stealing our votes is the only thing they have as is proved by the vote SNP get Tory line.
They fear ruling out the SNP from a deal in case that fails to return voters to the fold and they fear leaving hat option open as it implies they do want SNP on side which undermines point A.
Labour are politically ineptfor manouvering themselves into this position and as Scotland won’t vote Tory for WM anyway,Scameron only has to play to the swivel eyed loons and keep hitting Labour.
SNP surge:
“It comes from grassroots popular opinion, unrepresented in newsprint or on the airwaves and voiced largely online.”
Yet it continues to grow in defiance of the unrepresentative newsprint and airwaves propagation.
Our country will Cross The Rubicon in May.
I think there’s another reason too, and it’s one all WM parties fear. The fact that if the SNP break the mould and get elected despite FPP then voters all around Britain might decide to start voting for the parties they want to vote for instead of the usual Labour or Conservative.
This is interesting but not convincing. A simpler conviction is that Labour does not want to give up on one of its heartlands. Scottish Labour politicians have been prominent at the top of the party for so long that it would be strange to think that they would give up on this with a whimper.
At the moment the SNP has very few MPs and it is logical for the big UK Labour Party to ignore them and reduce their status. Why should they change this view when the election has not even happened yet? There is still no strict guarantee that the SNP will win all these seats. In a general election you cannot discount the possibility of a major political event/turning point which could concentrate Scottish minds on kicking the Con-Dems out, which might still lead to a sunstantial vote for Labour. The rise of the SNP is still a very recent phenomenon and not everyone is as interested in politics as we are despite the referendum renaissance but they all still have one vote. This can still be swayed much nearer the vote (remember sad Iain Gray’s fall in the polls?).
I am always interested in the moment when ascendant political movements begin to lose their focus and imagine that they are creating their own reality because of confirmation bias. I wouldn’t discount it now with the SNP and its followers of whom I am one. Politics is mostly disappointment sadly.
liz
It is probably fair to say that Labour have a bit of a sense of humour by-pass at the moment. They are like an annoyed country squire, red of face, yelling “Get Orf My Land!” and waving a big walking stick wishing it was a double barrelled shotgun.
Les Miserables
Nation Libre at 12.33
You are of course absolutely correct with that. Of course the SNP know a lot of these secrets now but who do they tell. No one will report anything they say.
However armed with actual evidence they will be difficult to ignore. It would be in the interest of most politicians and parties to cave in to SNP for these reasons.
Whatever happens they are all set for a hard time and they know it.
It is rather handy that the party capable of exposing this wretched parliament and its occupants are pesky Scotchlanders. It enables them to dismiss SNP as “others”, like foreigners or BNP, Ukippers.
It’s not really because of the Jocks. There are far more than 59 of them in Westminster already.
There was always West Lothian grumbling before but those Jocks couldn’t shout loud with their faces in the trough.
Now what we have is the wrong type of Jock. Democratically elected but not part of the establishment.
This has never happened before. They are pooping their little weasel pants.
They couldn’t give independence or FFA as it would ruin them. All they could do was what they do best and pray that it worked.
It only just worked. (I still suspect foul play, to the annoyance of many I know). They gambled on fooling Scotland big. They didn’t. They hoped that the campaign would be so successful as to see them through round 2(GE). It didn’t work.
Now they have galvanised Scotland. With their Vow pish they have shown that they simply cannot deliver.
Doug Daniel says:
Perhaps there will be some arm’s-length NGOs funded by Glasgow City Council who will be recruiting vigorously come 8 May?
farrochie @ 12:26pm
“Basically, UK Labour would be accepting SNP MPs are subsitutes for their own; why would anyone then vote Labour?”
In the short-term, this is clearly true. They would be accepting that but then they would only be acknowledging that it seems likely that many Labour MPs are going to be ‘substituted’ off the pitch by the public anyway.
Over the longer term, if the Scottish branch lingers then their aim would be to think of some actual policies and promote people (perhaps as yet unknown figures) whom people find themselves able to trust.
Accepting a deal with the SNP (should they do as well as forecast) does not mean that London Labour would be accepting forever that they are better equipped than Labour MPs to serve Scotland.
Right now, one of the damaging things for Labour is that they refuse to acknowledge that they have no trust. They should go away and work on these things and let what will happen happen in the meantime.
In that sense, what Stu says is correct. They are irrationally damaging their own party with their antics, because they are in denial about how many people view them (and about the right of people to view them in that way too).
I’m absolutely sure that the Labour Party is extremely self aware of what it is!
This is a very good piece (thanks Rev) but it’s still a little naive in that it suggests that there is a an open door to some sort of alternative Labour reality, i.e. somewhere to the left of where they currently sit.
There definitely is no open door. It was closed a long time ago. John Smith started it, Blair finished it, Brown aplied a new lick of paint and Milliband has forgotten that the door every existed.
The Westminster system of Merry-go-Round politics, where it’s an unwritten, but plainly understood, rule that the Party with next shot at Government strictly adheres to a Right Wing agenda (centre-right neoliberal), does not allow for a swing to the left.
Although Westminster run UK plc is not a one party state, it is a one creed state.
Labour is terrified of the SNP because they simply couldn’t do business together. The speculated Labour /SNP coalition or working partnership will not be a rerun of the Tory/LibDem arrangement.
The present coalition works because both parties share an ideological position. That would not be the case with Labour and the SNP. Forget any previous statements and positions from the Lib Dems, they always held Right Wing UK plc views. The mask slipped when they got a whiff of power.
Another rather huge elephant in the room is the fact that Westminster politics is dominated by the self interests of individual Unionist MPs. Labour MPs are not in politics for the greater good of their constituents nor even the population as a whole (at both a Scottish and UK level). They are only MPs to line their own pockets, pursue careers; politics is a means to an end. Truly UK politics is a mercenary occupation.
The SNP surge threatens the entire Westminster cosy, self centered, greed driven system.
It’s not only Labour that are scared, it’s everyone who currently benefits from the entire corrupt Westminster edifice.
Nation Libre @ 12:33
I have my suspicions about this as well! As they are fond if shouting these last few days ‘the SNP want to break up Britain’ and it’s possible they know the evidence exists to facilitate this by laying more truth at people’s doors were the SNP to be able to see all ‘the books’ as you say.
It’s not been uncommon for people to point out that no-one seems to mind Scottish MPs so much if they are Liberal or Labour and it makes one think that this is because they go along with obfuscation willingly in a way that SNP (or the likes of Plaid Cymru) would not do.
If I was Welsh, I would also want the SNP to do well for this reason as I suspect there are some things being hidden there too.
Thanks Rev,
A true eye opener.
Great analysis that us ‘non political Anoraks’ can comprehend.
Cheers…
An issue, mentioned in the piece above, concerns the Scottish media. Surely, in the event of our country voting massively for SNP candidates, electing them, and parceling off down to the trough, the Scottish media must face up to the fact of their complete failure.
Faced with dwindling sales and audience – therefore income – and evidence of the publics disbelief in the constant barrage of misrepresentation, the media must surely change?
Great work, Stu, and still IndyKing.
In terms of political philosophy, the SNP haunt Labour.
For as you say, the SNP constantly reminds Labour politicians,
members and voters, of how Labour used to be,
before they swallowed Thatcherism hook, line and sinker,
and morphed into full-blooded Tory neo-Liberals.
Following Thatcher, Labour changed big time.
‘Love your neighbour’ became ‘f–k the neighbour,
it’s everyman for himself.
For Labour this was a big big mistake, because of course,
the Labour voting part of the country HATED Thatcher,
and rightly so.
Thatcher had betrayed her roots, and her Faith.
Remember when, on the steps of No 10, May 4 1979,
She quoted from St Francis:
“Where there is discord, may we bring harmony.
Where there is error, may we bring truth.
Where there is doubt, may we bring faith.
And where there is despair, may we bring hope.”
link to news.bbc.co.uk
Then, in the years that followed, Thatcher created disharmony
created error and doubt, and finally despair among so many.
And she wanted everyone to follow her,
to become like her, and many Labourites did – but many didn’t,
and those who didn’t were left to one side,
as the New Labour neo-Liberal Thatcherites marched off
on the Tory road to join the moneyed classes.
Labour are finished, but like the Olympic sledgers
who fall off during the run,
and usually finish on their backsides,
so too, Labour will slide to the bottom.
I just wish time would go quicker –
the waiting is killing me.
Chris Downie
Why would an increase in numbers take the SNP to the left?
You assuming the new influx of people are all lefties? Why?
Most opinions polls and social polls show the “Scotland is so very socialist” idea to be a myth.
Why would the SNP need to change any placement, its the people who changed opinions to join them, not them who changed to join the people.
Hmm, Rev,
Maybe you’ve got this the wrong way round
Try and put yourself in Ed Miliband’s shoes.
You want the Labour Party to tack to the left. But if you do this yourself, just before an election, then you will end up feeding the trolls of the MSM; and there just isn’t time to build up a wide enough coalition of support for your preferred policies.
What to do then?
Turn to the Jocks for help. You’ve been able to rely on them returning nearly 50 MPs for years – even in 2010.
But now, you need the Scottish Labour Party to make a futile gesture. And so, you encourage them to elect a leader who will appear to be a skilled campaigner, but who actually has such a tin ear that he can’t hear what the electorate wants. And he’s not helped by the near collapse of much of the Labour Party’s networks in Scotland.
Even better, with the Yes campaign nearly succeeding, it is the SNP, well to the left of the Labour Party, that is has the organisation needed to win the campaign; and a terrifyingly competent First Minister leading a popular government, which keeps on doing what the electorate actually wants. Your confident hope – 45 – 50 SNP MPs.
On that basis, your challenge is to get to 275 – 290 seats in England and Wales: enough to form a minority government with some informal support from the SNP group of MPs (which will involve shifting gently to the left), but not with the LibDems.
Bonus ball – you get the Scots to end Jim Murphy’s political career.
Mr Miliband might be surprisingly cheerful about this outcome. Just rather reticent about admitting that he’d like it to happen.
osakisushi @ 1:18PM
I wish that were true, however you only have to look at the Scotsman Newspaper to realise that they inhabit an ever smaller blinkered world while their sales collapse around them.
The MSM view of Scottish voters intentions seem to portray us rather naïve simple folk that just need some more indoctrination just to sort us out and all will be well.
And we can all in future celebrate “in this country” the arrival of a new Royal Baby by waving our wee Union Flags – street party anyone?.
A thoughtful analysis, Stuart. Many thanks. Labour’s antipathy seems, on the face of it, to be suicidal. Related to Scotland, it makes no sense at all.
link to wp.me
Just looking at the photo .. is’nt that Wimbledon… wouldn’t Salmond be just behind him there as he supported the Scotsman who wanted Independance Andy Murray?
Just saying 🙂
@ farrochie
I see your point but the scenario you are describing assumes that there wouldn’t be many other unpredictable variables coming into play. In the unlikely event that SLAB is wiped out at the GE I am fairly certain that there will be a move to re-constitute it as a genuinely (relatively) Scottish political party. It might be affiliated to but not a branch office of London Labour and might gain traction in Scotland as an alternative to SNP. Pure conjecture on my part but just an example of how it could all get interestingly complicated and unpredictable.
For me, the best outcome of the GE would be that it signals the continuation of the growing enlightenment and growing empowerment of the Scots. For many generations the only choice Scots have had has been between ‘if you can’t beat them join them’ or a life of dis-empowerment. We are learning that by using our brains and soft power, rather than brawn, we can achieve change. I have no sympathy for New Labour and even less for SLAB who have been their willing boot boys in Scotland. I can’t predict their demise but it is undoubtedly the key factor in creating a Scotland that is ‘good enough’ for the well being of all its people.
now, regarding the next Labour leader, I heard a wee piece on David Miliband this morning (or was it last night) on Radio 4. Havent heard him mentioned for ages. Funny that …
Just this second, the ‘Ten Reasons’ A3 Labour flyer through the letterbox,
together with ‘Scotland’s changing’ from Westminster.
5 million of these delivered by Royal mail.
Labour isn’t paying for this.
This is Union politics paid for by the taxpayer.
[…] The REAL reason Labour fear the SNP […]
Triskelion says:
12 March, 2015 at 1:01 pm
I think there’s another reason too, and it’s one all WM parties fear. The fact that if the SNP break the mould and get elected despite FPP then voters all around Britain might decide to start voting for the parties they want to vote for instead of the usual Labour or Conservative.
That’s an excellent point.
[…] For some time, readers, we've been puzzling to ourselves about quite why the idea of having to work with the SNP in the UK parliament enrages the Labour Party quite so much. Because it doesn't make… […]
@Stu
Yet again a stunning analysis and of a quality that puts our mainstream press to shame.
Craig P says:
“Who would employ a useless turd like Brian Donohoe, for instance?
Perhaps there will be some arm’s-length NGOs funded by Glasgow City Council who will be recruiting vigorously come 8 May?”
Short lived! Council elections, May 2017. Another chance to decimate Labour!
It is clear to see now,
the value to Westminster in having English History
in the School Curriculum down through the years.
I am sure we would have been Independent before now,
had we all had the benefit of a Scottish History
as we now know it.
I really don’t like the English ruling classes.
I liked Gore Vidal’s description of the US as a “one party state with two right wings”. That’s what UK is. The Labour Party only competes with the Tories over how well they can manage the State on behalf of our imperial masters. Will we have the A team or the B team?
Each represent a slightly different corporate constituency depending on where their funding comes from and which revolving door they plan to spin round after Westminster. But essentially, they’re middle management for the oligarchs.
The SNP are different. They are largely funded by their supporters and they want to demolish the House of Lords, not drape themselves in ermine. That makes them dangerous. Hence the foaming at the mouth attacks.
@manandboy 1.26
‘I just wish time would go quicker –
the waiting is killing me.’
Exactly how I feel at the moment.
manandboy:
Noticed there are ‘Scotland’s Changing’ ads all over Youtube etc as well. I’ve never been more thankful that there is the function to ‘skip ad’ after 5 seconds 😉
I think the possibility of being forced to deliver more powers for Scotland is a bigger issue.
Labour had to be dragged kicking and screaming to match the Tories on the feeble Smith commission proposals.
Many Labour MPs would love to dilute them down to nothing if they get the opportunity.
To move the UK political agenda to the left and effect socialist policies with less austerity the trick is to elect enough SNP MPs to become not only the third biggest party but to have the good fortune that the Tories cannot form an alliance with the Libdems + the DUP + Ukip. (just in case)
At the moment that looks likely but there is a wee bit to go to election day.
I will be staying up to watch the UK GE results for the first time in a while.
The scenario outlined in the article must appeal to all those Scottish swithering labour voters.
Nation Libre at 12:30 Totally agree the fear is that access to ‘the books’ from a group who will be very very interested in all the details.
Manandboy, just realised you must be right. Otherwise how else has the coordination of delivery of a UK government leaflet and a Labour Party leaflet happened? 6 months after the referendum and still in each other’s pockets.
Doug Daniel says:
Who would employ a useless turd like Brian Donohoe, for instance?
Dunno, but, there might be a vacancy for a non-executive director at Rangers coming up.
Paul Garbett 12.41
‘…my credibility has been stretched by the recent incompetence of the main parties…’
Mine too Paul and these are the people in charge of our WMD. Try sleeping at night with that in mind.
Maybe a post office worker can tell us if they have been told to deliver both leaflets at the same time?
its been a while my old pc gave up the ghost after the referendum (sob) but im back now 🙂
Ehh why do i keep hearing SNP- Lab coalition ,frankly i dont want the SNP to get in bed with either of the 2 westminster tories.
My reason behind that is go ask the Lib Dums about getting in
bed with westminster tories and what it does to your party,i fear the same will happen to the SNP and could set us back decades,so please Nicola tell them both to get lost!!!
Maybe there are some intelligent Labour politicians who have really grasped at the stuff that is written here but there are also many who have been locked in a time warp since 2007. they have never been able to understand why they started to become losers. Each further defeat that should be a call for thorough re-examination of themselves has simply been met with further ill considered animosity towards the party that has been gradually removing them from the political map in Scotland.
The biggest mistake has been better together. If Scottish Labour (branch or real autonomous unit?) had opened a proper internal debate on Scottish independence and if that debate had resulted in support of the union and if they had then had the sense to campaign for NO as the Labour party instead of joining up with the other unionist parties then the current situation could have been fairly different.
I’m really now wondering if we are in the end game for Labour in Scotland where they will be reduced to single figures for Westminster until either Scotland gets its independence or something miraculous happens to bring real change to the choices available to voters in UK politics. RIP ScotLab I think.
See the UK Government has privatised a whole swathe of NHS services in England £780m worth of contracts over 4 years for what I would consider to be primary NHS activities.
It is a death of a thousand privatisations.
” then dare the SNP to vote down a budget increasing taxes on the wealthy”
Their problem is we can easily vote down a budget and then abstain on a confidence vote. Why would we want to get rid of an incompetent right-wing red tory government after all? Let them twist in the wind if they can’t bring forward progressive competent legislation.
Great article Stu you make politics easier to follow.
I notice 2/3 Wingers suggest a fear of the SNP walking the corridors of power, finding where the bodies are buried. I asked this question a few weeks ago.
Would the civil service ministers who have blatantly aligned themselves with the union, try and undermine the SNP MPs from finding the “bodies”? Are they, as we speak, furiously burying information regarding Scotland’s economy, under “penguins and their right to roam the streets in gangs”. I wouldn’t trust any one of them. (Ministers not penguins!)
Vote SNP get Scotland.
Wouldn’t it be more likely that the tory or the labour party just give in to the SNP demands for FFA devo max? that way the SNP would not be voting on issue concerning rUK, for about 90% of the time, leaving the Tory or the labour party with a majority for 90% of the time?
Why would the SNP form an agreement, of any kind, with a minority Labour or Tory party? What would the SNP gain from such a deal? If they gain more powers for Holyrood, it would mean the number of issues they do not vote on in Westminster would increase…….leaving a minority tory or labour government in a minority??I cannot see what a minority government would gain from such an agreement either
It’s also a piss poor poster considering this is the easy reply.
Who benefits most from more SNP MPs?
SCOTLAND
I am reminded of the re-opening of the Scottish parliament and what a delight it was to see real people in the chamber. I think that will be the case for the English electorate when they see real people from Scotland entering the HoC.
It will be very difficult for the MSM to demonise us then.
@DerekM
There need not be a ‘formal coalition’ between SNP and Labour but enough common ground to get some policies through. Let Labour put our money where it’s mouth is and see how it goes.
What other option could it have? SNP are there to look after Scotland’s interests, that might mean things don’t get worse for the main part a good chance that things will get better even throughout the UK.
As for Trident SNP votes ‘no thanks’ and as we see above the Tories must swing behind labour to form a majority, nothing we can do about that.
Independence is a little way off yet, little steps, the trust of the Scottish voter over time is what is needed over the next two or three years.
I might even live to see independence if another referendum comes along soon.
Manandboy
Maybe Maggie meant to say;
“Where there is harmony, may we bring discord.
Where there is truth, may we bring error.
Where there is faith, may we bring doubt.
And where there is hope, may we bring despair.”
In which case she kept her word.
Quoted from Bella Caledonia:
“Six months ago they all loved us and desperately wanted our input into their country. They even kindly built us a cairn to make their point. That, of course, was then. Now the priority is to tell Scotland that, if we think we have a right to vote how we choose, and that Westminster democracy should respect our choice, then we’re very much mistaken.
Britain, when you told us how much you valued us in your family of nations, we didn’t realise it was going to be the Fritzl family and you were going to keep us in a basement and abuse us.”
I agree with the Major, this is a brilliant analysis and why I still read and hang about this site. No MSM outlet reliant on the good graces of advertisers, sponsors, shareholders etc and with an army of lawyers would employ you because of the truths you write about. Daylight is best disinfectant but only those pure in soul or comfortable in their consciences can stand the thought of it.
No politician in power can, all find themselves enmeshed in grubby compromise. Eck will forever be tarnished by Trump’s golf course even though he inherited the responsibility and despite raining on The Donald’s parade on a perfectly blustery day with the offshore turbine testing ground and pointing out he has no standing in OUR parliament lots of people just remember the former.
But the top SNP people can’t be too bad people simply because if they had any skeletons the hostile MSM would have leapt on them with glee long since. I’m not saying Eck is a saint, just a relative one.
@call me dave
Never underestimate the ability of the westmisnter establishment parties to fuck everything up in record time.
I take one look at wee Ed Miliband’s piss poor shadow cabinet and think there’s an accident waiting to happen. Nor will Cameron fare any better since his cabinet of toffs have been uniformly inept and incompetent. From the pasty tax to the bedroom tax to Iain Duncan Smith’s calamitous welfare reforms that wasted hundreds of millions and attacked the poor and disabled.
I confidently predict that Jack Straw and Malcolm Rifkind are the tip of the iceberg and the sheer malevolent avarice of most the westmisnter establishment MPs will again be their undoing.
Al we need to do is keep the enthusiasm going for our supporters and combat the establishment media bias on the doorsteps and on the streets.
The only way we get another Indyref is for Independence supporters to keep up the amazing work delivering leaflets, canvassing, recruiting more members and campaigning on social media.
The sooner this web site is taken down the better for all the Tory parties and our war criminals. This site just underminds all the hard work the MSM are doing.
Nation Libre @ 12.36
“I realise that the SNP are not proposing a formal coalition, but wouldn’t they be privy to a lot more financial information, both current and historical following a formal agreement with Labour”
That’s what I think as well.
The Greens snubbed by STV in debate arrangements. Mr Harvie’s contribution lost and Scotland less informed. 🙂
Anyhoo! Dim Jim, Ruthie + Wullie V Nicola. Seems an even match.
Please let the agenda be about (non-devolved issues) so Jim is the MP on the panel with all that experience built up over the years, including Sec State Scotland for six months in 2010! 🙂
The Labour Party Candidate for East Dunbartonshire hasn’t even bothered to turn up yet i believe he’s had his £1000 from Their Leader Tony Blair but no show yet
Lib Dem Jo Swinson seems to think that voting YES in the Referendum could lead in some way to getting cancer
That’s a new one eh
But she claims to be doing a sterling job on those nasty potholes that Nicola Sturgeon is directly responsible for
Takes me back to when i used to read “The Dandy”
I read “The Bunty” Too
New Man eh
I thought Nicola sounded like she has a bit of a cold at FMQ today.Little wonder if she’s been swinging about in her underwear.
One reason I suspect fuels Slab’s hatred is jealousy as they see the SNP as the party they should be. The SNP have stayed close to it’s roots whereas Lab are to the right of the Tories from the past such as Ian MacLeod,Harold MacMillan and Alick Buchanan Smith. ( Age showing here)
Another reason I suspect is that the SNP is a threat to the Lab self serving gravy train of Shop Steward,Councilor, MP then Ermine. That’s the Lab route isn’t it?
Another belter fae ‘Contrary Mary’ Jim Murphy.
Murphy supports ‘something for something’ Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy has said he supports universal free benefits, regardless of income.
Geez keep them coming Jim.
Never mind Labour wanting or not to work with SNP, as a YES activist I am severely pissed off at the thought of the SNP working with Labour. It was these Labour rats who cost Scotland it’s independence, it was Labour who leafleted and campaigned against us, it was Labour MP’s and MSP’s who called us every name under the sun and it was their Daily Record who lied daily about independence. So if the SNP jump into bed with that bunch of rats they may just end up like the LibDems. Politics sure is a dirty old game and goal posts shift all the time but unless the SNP watch what they are doing they will condemn themselves to not being trusted just like all the rest. We all know WM is rotten to the core – will a wee bit of power turn Scotlands Party into a chip off the old block?
I’m sure Alex and Nicola aren’t naive enough to rush into a formal coalition with anyone. Before the 2010 general election Cameron asked Angela Merkel how she managed to govern with a coalition. She said “The little party always gets smashed!” What has happened to the Lib/Dems backs that up. We cannot assume that every new SNP voter is an ex labour supporter and we need to be very careful.
@Paula Rose (2.28)-
Nice one.
I’m having a wee daydream about what it’ll look and sound like when AS gets to his feet in the HOC for the first time post GE. You can almost imagine that wee smile on his face, and hear the froth forming on the lips of his enemies.
It’ll be pyoor mental by the way!
A Cameron/Tory defeat would open the way for “Mad Boris of Londinium”, hater of all things Scottish, to step in as the new Tory leader.
And don’t forget Nigel the racist, he will also be in the house.
Along with, hopefully, Alex Salmond.
Westminster as you have never seen it before.
great work rev, water tight @ every level.
Call me Dave @ 2:50pm
Actually, that’s really poor. Bit of a disgrace from STV there, Greens should be included if all other Scottish leaders are.
But what’s really interesting, is that Labour could, in theory, do a number of things that would give them a huge boost – such as get rid of bedroom tax, increase public spending, abolish tuition fees – and pay for it by scrapping Trident for which they can blame the SNP. So if anyone criticises them for defense policy, that can say ‘a big Nat made me do it’ while benefitting from the nuclear dividend.
@Johnny says
It is a bad decirion! Wait till Auntie at PQ get their panel sorted out will Harvie be in the mix?
PS:
Took some time to look at the ‘taking liberties film’ that is a shocker. Never seen it before but heard about it on the radio programme a while back.
There are lots of good people working away in the land of England who are our neighbours, our problem is both Westminster’s Tory parties.
UK is a facist state
Near enough what I said in a post the other day there.
I think what terrifies Labour with the nonsense of ‘Vote SNP; Get Tory’ is that apart from the fact that it is not working (Scots aren’t buying Murphy’s mantra) is that by voting for the SNP, and thus hoping that there will be an SNP-Labour coalition of sorts (…or on an issue-by-issue basis), then the Scottish Electorate know …they just know! …that voting for the SNP will force Labour to do things for the Scottish people, when in the past, Labour would just give it a token nod, or they would just ignore it with contempt.
Not anymore.
The SNP is the Scottish Electorate’s super-bullet. It’s our gun at Labour’s head, and if they don’t play ball with Scotland, then ‘Bang! …you’re party is toast in every election from the 2015 election onwards’. Labour will lose way more than half of even their current potential voters if they ignore the SNP’s wishes (and as we know, it’s still whittling away as we speak).
Never ever again will it be forgotten, should Labour renege on its vows to Scotland.
This is what terrifies Labour. Having someone in the room that will make them accountable to Scotland for the foreseeable future.
@Iain Gray’s Subway Lament
‘I confidently predict that Jack Straw and Malcolm Rifkind are the tip of the iceberg and the sheer malevolent avarice of most the westmisnter establishment MPs will again be their undoing.’
Well put Iain.
What gets me is that this is so evident to us and the information is surely very widely disseminated now that even those die hard Labourites will have been made aware of the Labourstas taking over their Party and STILL they do nothing. I mean it’s not rocket science its plain as day. What can they be hoping to achieve? Chaos? Who comes out well then? Is there some neoliberal plan to destabilise UK and bring it down? Then EU ? THE WORLD is a stake or steak? Never quite sure how it should be with Nuclear Weapons being so important that there MUST come a time to use them for the ruling classes on unsuspecting ‘others’.
Anyway Good piece and I feel for those of you back on the Island while I languish in this Stalinist hell awaiting my fate.
Imagine how it will look if ALL UK parties are booted out of Scotland come GE15.
Oh yes please
I put their fear of the SNP down to a straightforward pathological hatred of the SNP. I first noticed this even 35 years ago, when cutting my political teeth. The SNP were the taboo bogie man then, the same as they are still to be irrationally feared now. it’s the N word. It’s in their DNA to abhor that kind of nationalism. the trouble is, nationalism and the discussion on it has moved on significantly, whereas the Labour party haven’t.
Surely Rennie should be papped for Harvie? Lib Dems are not even an irrelevance.
O/T
Does anyone know where I can buy SNP flags, banners, posters and other material similar to YES material.
Had a look about, can’t see anything.
Is 10,000 flags doing anything.
Would be a good seller.
I have even asked the SNP and it looks like we are on our own. Nothing coming down from head office at all.
Latest from the Tories. Are you feart yet!
link to archive.today
@manandboy,
We got our leaflets this morning too. Others on here over the last few days have said the same thing; the arrived together. The Scotland’s Changing leaflet was inside the Labour leaflet.
Now, if there was no connection and it was pure coincidence that these were bundled together at the sorting office, it was one heck of a coincidence.
And normally, correct me if I’m wrong, leaflets are not usually put inside each other. surely?
Has everyone received theirs bundled this way?
And if it wasn’t coincidence, then what conclusions do we draw?
Only slightly O/T.
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
Ooft.
Doug Daniel says @ 12.44
“Who would employ a useless turd like Brian Donohoe, for instance?”
Isn’t there a need for another fog horn on the Clyde?
A straw in the wind, for what it’s worth. Talking this morning to a Glasgow SLAB stalwart, a pensioner, we’ve argued the toss for years, unconvinced by the YES case, probably voted NO if at all, a guy who knows the George Square set-up & mafia and attended all the right demo’s in the dim & distant, as I did myself, but how & ever, a Damascene conversion has taken place, he won’t be voting Labour and has told the family to do likewise (not that you can tell families anything these days) and if Curran shows her phyzog in his close-mooth, the ambush is ready.
I’d have thought this guy would have been the last man standing, for SLAB, so a very heartening encounter in the pissing rain.
My National had to be dried out by the butler. Better a sinner that repenteth.
@Cherry says:
12 March, 2015 at 2:22 pm
One of the reasons WM and the London press hate AS is because he was very good at digging up bodies during his stint as an MP. They tried to hinder him then but he frequently managed to get the information anyway. Have a look at his career prior to politics on Wiki.
Imagine what SNP will be able to do with a cadre of SNP MPs all coached by him in the necessary techniques. No wonder the WM parties and bureaucrats are freaking out at the prospect.
Mealer says
Very good,Rev.
Labour also fear us because we are young and vibrant and they are old and smelly.
Deep man, deep.
Project Fear #2 is running now.
Labour on Twitter now going full on with the “Full Fiscal Autonomy would ruin Scotland” line. They have picture of a bomb and everything.
Unbelievable how much contempt they have for Scots.
Why is it, out of all the nations in the world, that only the Scots are uniquely incapable of managing their own finances?
The problem for them is that we know this argument is a pile of shite. It just shows contempt. FFA is fine for the UK, they say, but not for Scotland. Because we subsidise you. You couldn’t manage on your own.
You are the dogs. We are the masters who feed you.
That’ll go down well for Labour in Scotland.
Who’d have thought that they wouldn’t have learned a single thing from indyref?
Think that is your best one this year Stuart.
Of course, the other factors behind the current truth, the other ‘estates’ – Big Business, Establishment Media, Elitism Factory could have been mentioned but would have clouded the issue and perhaps, at least for most Wing readers, are already understood anyway.
It seems there’s more than just the usual blogs reporting themes similar to this :
link to tarffadvertiser.blogspot.co.uk
caz-m says:
And don’t forget Nigel the racist, he will also be in the house.
…I was hoping Al Murray would out-Farrage him, with his Pub Landlord act.
I remember the likes of Jim, Johann and Duncan etc telling us to not be selfish and share our wealth – what happened to that one?
That wisnae a Cairn that Rory the Tory was buildin at Grenta.
He was just gettin a big pile of bricks ready to throw at all the SNP buses as they pass on their way to Westminster.
The Labour Party argument that Scotland is an economic wasteland fit only for hand outs and grace and favour from the rest of the UK is remarkable on so many levels.
It shows utter contempt for Scotland
It begs the question “What has the Union done for Scotland”
It is a gift to the Kelvin McKenzies and Huge Heffers who would like to strip Scotland to the bone. Their arguments are enhanced by the craven warblings of Labour MPs who sit there decrying Scotland and saying what a drain it is on the UK resources and how little Scotland brings to the table.
If they truly believe their own words then from whence does there pride in being Scottish come? To be a beggar is a misfortune not a career aspiration.
I hope all you NO Voters are seeing the error of your ways.
In other words, I hope you are all voting SNP on May 7th and YES in the next Referendum.
ONLY THEN WILL YOU BE FORGIVEN!
caz-m dear – it’s a chambered tomb within which to inter the final remains of the unionist cause.
Good analysis Stu but I also think Nation Libre has a major point you are missing.
I’ve always believed that the only Scots in WM would have to be confirmed dyed in the wool unionists. I remember the furore AS caused in WM many years ago & thought that we (the whole UK) could do far better with more conviction politicians like him to get things running properly.
There is no doubt that a large group of SNP MP’s are going to turn up some pretty amazing secrets in WM & they are certainly not going to keep quiet about what they find. That’s the way it should be.
I have no doubt that WM has been ripping off Scotland for ever & are so adept at it that they’ve turned it into an art form. More SNP MP’s reduces the likelihood of that situation continuing for very long after 7th May. They will be discovering the buried bodies & using that to Scotland’s advantage & that is absolutely the right thing to do. I know that may seem a bit rich coming from an English commenter but I see it as Scotland does need the balance to be addressed in their favour for a change instead of WM. Personally, I hope they do cause chaos & fear amongst the unionists because that’s the only way that WM is going to improve 🙂
On a lighter but O/T note, I’ve just had a confirmation email saying that I’ve got a ticket for Nicola’s lecture on Monday at LSE. I’m looking forward to that immensely 😉
Hope there’s a few more SNP’ers joining me in the audience just to help her feel at home on English turf.
@caz-m lol can they throw bricks or will they need to get their butlers to do it for them 🙂
@call me dave i understand what you mean but i still have concerns as i would not trust any of them as far as i could throw them and the old saying fly with the crows….. comes to mind.
@Almannysbunnet you are so right about that ,every small party that dares to go into coalition is the one that gets smashed.
O/T
Dave’s BBQ….
link to scottcreighton.co.uk
JLT says:
“..The SNP is the Scottish Electorate’s super-bullet. It’s our gun at Labour’s head, and if they don’t play ball with Scotland, then ‘Bang! …you’re party is toast in every election from the 2015 election onwards’..
”
Can anyone think of a similar but less violent metaphor than an SNP gun to Labours head ?
That’s what most people seem to want.
Just trying to think of the best way to phrase it..
@Paul
Many thanks for that link.
Posted the following comment.
“My fear is that this concerted mob manipulation might be indicative of ground preparation for more sinister, anti-democratic measures ‘they’ are considering may become ‘necessary’ in the near future.
We have to trust in the good sense and spirit of fair play in the English people themselves rather than the machine men who currently run the show.”
@ caz_m
Have you tried the SNP shop?No flags but everything else is there:
link to snpstore.org
@Onwards,JLT
““..The SNP is the Scottish Electorate’s super-bullet. It’s our gun at Labour’s head, and if they don’t play ball with Scotland, then ‘Bang! …you’re party is toast in every election from the 2015 election onwards’..”
Howbout?
““..The SNP is the Scottish Electorate’s super mirror of truth. It’s our way of showing Labour its true nature, and even if they refuse to ask the question, then ‘Tough! …they and the electorate get told the truth anyway and their party is toast in every election from the 2015 election onwards’..”
@ Karmanaut
Labour’s problem is that they haven’t defined what their promise, their guarantee, their vow meant. So any Labour types having a wander could you please explain to us what your definition of ‘home rule’, ‘near federalism’ and a powerhouse parliament’ actually is? Because if it isn’t the accepted definition of devo max, which is Full Fiscal Autonomy, we’d really appreciate some clarification, just so the electorate know what you’re about thanks.
Of course if it isn’t Full Fiscal Autonomy, then you’ve been a very naughty party. Or if it was when you made that guarantee, then when did you change your mind and what is your current stand on the matter.
Any time you’re ready.
We’re waiting.
Very, Very o/t
Just heard the sad news that Terry Pratchett has just died.
Fantastic writer and will be sadly missed, especially by me.
RIP TP
spot on
O/T After me saying a few threads back that I have no problem with posting and I use Chrome – my post today at 1.52 went into moderation for some time. Which reminded me that at one time posts were moderated and disappeared because they had a particular combination of letters in them. Morag and Paula Rose? cleverly discovered what that was.
But I can’t remember what the letters were. Anyone out there remember?
link to bloomberg.com
castle hill
Yes, I am fan, very sad. Bit of an unpleasant surprise.
RIP Terry
The film “Taking Liberties” should be shown to all high school kids.
If that doesn’t encourage people to participate in democracy, increase political understanding/awareness and better appreciate a need for change then nothing will.
Capella
Th letters were I & N & F & L. Now watch this fall foul of Akismet even though I’ve tried to separate them
@Nana Smith
Another little gem Nana!
I liked the last part of the following.
——————————————–
discussion will have included the induction of a large number of new lawmakers, office space and, crucially, the chairmanship of parliamentary committees.
———————————————
Imagine AS in the chair instead of I. Davidson on Scottish Affairs.
I can smell the toast…and the popcorn too. 🙂
I read this online in Huffington Post.
I thought Wingers would enjoy it.
“I don’t actually believe anyone
would be giving a second thought to Scotland
if their decision wasn’t so crucial
to the future of Great Britain as a whole.
The real problem in the upcoming election
isn’t the rise of parties like the SNP or Ukip
but the demise of parties like the Liberal democrats.
Suddenly over the last few years
people have begun to realize that politicians tell lies
and that they can’t be trusted.
Suddenly the Scottish voter is coming to realize
that Labour and conservatives don’t give a hoot
what happens to Scotland, well not until election time anyway,
but that goes for the entire population.
I hope we are entering a new era in politics
where people vote for what’s best for the country
as a whole and not for their own narrow social group.
However I do believe that any coalition
between the SNP and either Labour or conservative
would be a disaster.
So my advice, North of the border vote SNP,,,
down south vote Ukip or labour. Then pray….”
I just hope they’re not all like that dan sarf,
. . . .although he did say vote SNP.
Maybe how you get there doesn’t matter after all.
Danny Alexander in deep shit. Makes you wonder if he got up to dodgy stuff during the referendum.
@castle hills chavie
Thanks for noting that. I’m a great fan of his work and he will be sadly missed.
He did a lot of great work for the Alzheimer’s charities in the last few years and brought it to many more people’s attention.
I hope he had a smooth passing.
@ Joemcg
“Danny Alexander in deep shit.”
Glad to hear it, Joe.
I just hope it’s eight feet deep.
12 March 2015: Mandy: No Labour Majority in 2015 General Election
Peter Mandelson yesterday cast doubt on Labour leader Ed Miliband winning an outright majority at the general election in May. The ex-Cbinet minister said: “People are shopping around in a way that will almost certainly deliver us a hung parliament.” He also said: “not in a month of Sundays” would Labour’s Mansion Tax raise the money projected.
Comment: Informed statement about projected revenues from the Mansion Tax. It appears more hot air than substance from Jim Murphy in regard to the 1000 extra nurses
@ Lollysmum
Thanks – I’ve checked my earlier post but don’t see that combination. Perhaps there’s some other problem. Sigh! Posts are appearing OK now.
O/T It’s P for piggy (pension) day so I’ve dropped a few bawbees into the Fundraiser collection tin. I sincerely hope we can bust the 100k level before it closes.
Carry on Stu, the more cages you can rattle the better.
The NFL thing was fixed by Stu – these letters are OK now. That didn’t put a post into moderation, it wiped it completely. Stu did mention recently that he’d added a few new terms that would annihilate posts containing them – routine insulting terms describing Labour politicians and the Daily Record. If you might have used one of these, best give it up.
The p*ge r*fr*sh thing still puts pages into moderation, and obviously Stu will delete posts like that that aren’t meant to appear. Making mistakes in your log-in so that Akismet thinks you’re a new commentator will also put a post into moderation.
The whole business of some people not seeing new posts for about 20 minutes is just plain weird. It didn’t happen to me at all, not on my new-ish home PC using Firefox, or on my phone using IE, or on my exceedingly ancient version of IE at work. Then the work IT guy came to my office and rebuilt my PC completely so that it runs Win7. It’s great, and the IE version is new and a load of sites that wouldn’t load before are fine now.
And that PC has developed the 20-minute lag thing for Wings comments. Other two devices still fine, still appearing instantly, but the newly-rebuilt PC does the delay.
No, I don’t understand it either.
@paula rose
I’m having a wee daydream about what it’ll look and sound like when AS gets to his feet in the HOC for the first time post GE. You can almost imagine that wee smile on his face, and hear the froth forming on the lips of his enemies.
I’m more looking forward to cochrans 2nd installment of his autobiography, Alex salmond, my part in his victory, 🙂
@paula rose
I’m having a wee daydream about what it’ll look and sound like when AS gets to his feet in the HOC for the first time post GE. You can almost imagine that wee smile on his face, and hear the froth forming on the lips of his enemies.
I’m more looking forward to cochrans 2nd installment of his autobiography, Alex salmond, my part in his victory, 🙂
Cats, re 10000 flags
Yep no response from snp, loads of folk asking for them, cheapest I can find is 20 at £35 a piece
I think it is up to us, do you have the address of the guy who did the yes flags.?
Got the London lie sheet through the door today, interestingly mine was gift wrapped in a LibDem leaflet.
Nothing from Slab.
Must’ve given up on Gordon.
… can ‘we’ break the £100,000 before the SNP break the 100,000 membership… the race is on!! 😉
@boris
Nice to hear confirmation of what we already knew straight from the head spinner.
1% rise for most SNHS workers announced. ‘Little things mean a lot’.
Kitty Kallan song: Favourite at weddings when I was err…naive!
PS:
Footie links for EUAF cup ties and other things, for tonight and always, posted on O/T.
manandboy says:
“With Unionists, you never get what it says on the tin.”
Very true!
Perhaps a good slogan for a poster. A stack of cans each with a Unionist politician’s face and a short quote. Each quote turned out to be a false promise, of course. Promises made between the 8th and 18th September relating to Vow/ Federal UK / DevoMax etc etc offer a lot of fodder ! or, NHS safe after No vote. Etc etc
Am I the only one thinking that UK Tories (perhaps even the non-Scots of UK Labour) and the ranks of civil service have crossed the rubicon already. That when the dust settled in September, they found that they had changed as completely as Scotland. That they are now starting to believe that Scotland will be less trouble if it leaves?
And that the next move in the independence game will be that this belief will seep into establishment thinking increasingly more as time goes on, irrespective of how well the SNP does in 2015?
A federal UK is further away than ever before in parliamentary culture, campaigning for it the only role one could think that SLAB might have filled if they were not so bereft of talent. Looks like we might be seeing the green shoots of being turfed out the house with a quickie divorce???
Capella
It was really the SNP flags that I was after. Can’t seem to find anyone who is selling them. The same size as the YES flags.
Time to noise up the neighbours.
The answer at the moment is simply if they get in, by definition the SNP (actually, the voters), will have deprived a lot of Labour troughers of their jobs for life.
On another point, Rev: when I shared this on Facebook, the header was that Labour David Cameron pictograph. On the principle that most people don’t read the article, but may be impacted by the headline, is it possible to make sure it’s something more suited to our cause? Please?
Hi Onwards,
LOL …your right! You are right. But …it is the simplest metaphor in explaining the power that the voter has over the Labour Party if they vote SNP.
I could have been worse; I could have said that we have a knife at their throat, and if they don’t play ball, then its ‘wheeek’ with the wrist’ just like Sweeney Todd. Somehow, I think the ‘gun’ metaphor was slightly less ‘violent’ (if you know what I mean).
And ‘bursting Labour’s ballon with a pin’ doesn’t quite carry the same weight, nor hit the mark LOL
The last thing the unionists (of any colour) want is people in government who have Scotland’s best interests at heart: such people are likely to ask some very awkward questions about “the vow,” and might even report back to their constituents regarding stalling measures and indifference towards Scotland in the offices of Whitehall.
@ cats
Me too
Thing about the 10000 yes flags was although I crowd funded them on here, they were distributed liberally through out Scotland freely, when they arrived in my area, I paid £5 for mine. They became a source of funding for the individual yes groups as well. Thing is cats I don’t have the guys details who did this, but i think we need him now
Handandshrimp.
I sort of guessed by your moniker.
Bug’rit should about cover it.
It’s actually much simpler than that. If Labour cosy up to the SNP then they lose votes in England, if they turn their back on them then they loose in Scotland. It’s a no-win situation.
Contrary to their oft repeated line of ‘we are working for a majority’ what they hope for is to win enough seats so that the Tories cannot survive a no-confidence vote with the help of the LibDems and the DUP, at the same time as ensuring that Labour and the LibDems DO have a joint majority. This is the least toxic option available to them both sides of the border.
However, between these two options is a grey area where neither side can prevail without the support of the SNP.
The Tories have nothing to lose north of the border and are willing to throw Scotland under the bus to garner the anti-scottish vote in England.
Labour could have chosen to talk up the need for reconciliation, and used that to counter Tory rhetoric. But by letting the Tories write the ‘evil scots’ story, they leave themselves in a situation where an agreement with the SNP is nigh-on impossible.
Hi Rev Stu.
Right at the top, you typed,
“For some time, readers, we’ve been puzzling to ourselves about quite why the idea of having to work with the SNP in the UK parliament enrages the Labour Party quite so much. Because it doesn’t make any rational sense.”
My own feeling is that Labour’s HATRED of the SNP started to raise a head of steam in 2007, when they found themselves without their previously enjoyed power. This was their slap on the head.
The SNP’s victory in 2011 just increased the hatred. That was their punch in the Pü$$. Labour feel that something has been stolen from them and the culprit is the SNP, hence their continued repetition of “SNP BAD!”
Rational thought doesn’t even come into it; their hatred stops them seeing the bigger picture, as outlined by your good self, that could lead to their salvation.
.
Hi galamcennalath.
You typed,
“English voters haven’t yet viewed Labour in the same way as we Scots now do. Yet!
Labour’s big fear is that they do!
Question is, though … where do centre left leaning English voters turn?”
Funnily enough, this topic came up in a blether I was having with an SNP candidate last night.
He surmised that, if some event causes Labour voters in England to have “a lightbulb moment” in the month leading up to the vote, we may see an increase in voting intentions for the Greens, the only left-leaning alternative, particularly if Labour voters see the bigger ‘minority party’ (SNP) continuing to poll in the mid to high 40’s, percentage wise (in Scotland).
We do, indeed, live in interesting times.
As regards time comments take to appear – I will explain on O/T for those interested, but on topic…
My point about real people being elected is that that puts politics forward into the lives of all instead of backwards to the privileged few.
For those who do not have the time etc to maintain an interest in such things (politics) – the awareness that representation can be effectively carried out by one’s peers rather than a specially groomed elite is all important.
@call me dave
I love toast, hot buttered!
Have a chuckle at these replies to Mags Curren
Today I’m launching my Budget for the East End. Tell me what your priorities are: link to margaretcurran.org
link to archive.today
Chic McGregor says:
@Onwards,JLT
Howbout?
““..The SNP is the Scottish Electorate’s super mirror of truth. It’s our way of showing Labour its true nature, and even if they refuse to ask the question, then ‘Tough! …they and the electorate get told the truth anyway and their party is toast in every election from the 2015 election onwards’..”
Yes …LOL …it is another way of looking at it! But as said, sometimes, the more direct (and disturbing) metaphors work best.
Hi caz-m.
Re: flags.
I discussed this with my local SNP candidate a couple of weeks ago. I told him that I had seen mentions on Wings and Facebook, of people who wanted SNP flags like the YES flags.
I also told him that if the SNP produced them, people WOULD pay a fiver for one, the same as my YES flag cost. I even sent him two examples of what could sell.
Somehow, I don’t think the SNP have realised that we DO want SNP flags – and would pay for them!
You can see the examples I came up with at the links below.
Awe we’re no news worthy noo 15min Scottish news from STV/ITV.
I wonder if the have changed there progamming in other ares.
Brian Doonthetoon says
He surmised that, if some event causes Labour voters in England to have “a lightbulb moment” ….we may see an increase in voting intentions for the Greens’.
I would agree with that viewpoint. I could see a few going to the Liberals (damaged or not), a scraping going to UKIP, but more likely than not, a good portion of them, who in the end, may just not vote!
Now …if they truly woke up on mass, then who knows! Would England do what Scotland did and create a movement to save their nation? Would never say never!
If all comes to pass …well …as you say …interesting times to be living in.
Re-Flags. Come on SNP! Must be some cash in the kitty with 100,000 members to have every kind of paraphinellia you can think of made. Hell, it could be an excellent money spinner too!
Re English voters
I’m ex Labour voter in England that saw the light & yes you are right, there is no real alternative to vote for.
1) Greens aren’t standing in my constituency (solid Labour town)
2)Still seen as middle class nimby’s in many parts of the UK.
So it looks as though I will be sitting this one out 🙁
I Like Project Fear II, while the first attempted to frighten our potential supporters, this time they have decided to scare each other. Hysteria is as funny as it is infectious and is at its funniest when it infects the originator.
For my sins I have to work with a lot of posh kids. I had to be in London today for a meeting with said posh kids and was as usual wearing a Yes badge. Today was similar to visits during the referendum campaign in that I noticed the badge being noticed. The difference today was that the post badge-viewing eye contact was followed by neither condescending remark nor fatuous question. Today the reaction was awkward body language and silence. Their political and social certainties are under threat and they know it.
I am looking forward to the show –
link to oi59.tinypic.com
Schrödinger’s cat
Re: SNP flags.
I got my YES flags at a PQ demo. Paid £5 per flag and one free from Ronnie Anderson.
Now you would think that the same person would make SNP flags at the same price.
Does the name Mark Piggott ring a bell. his name was on the 10,000 flags email I got.
Link:-
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/10-000-flags-for-yes–11#home
There must be a flag maker out there somewhere.
Brian Doonthetoon
“My own feeling is that Labour’s HATRED of the SNP started to raise a head of steam in 2007, when they found themselves without their previously enjoyed power.”
I’m of an age where I can recall the political landscape of the 70’s and trust me Labour displayed outright hatred towards SNP voters especially in the “schemes” where their natural block voting public resided.
As for who the disillusioned Labour (not sure about left leaning) voter south of the border would tend to drift towards I think it will find a natural home with UKIP.
Working class England is a different beast entirely. The British Labour party only found itself popular through New Labour in huge swathes of Southern England.It’s a real minefield they have to negotiate and looking on from afar, danger lurks in virtually every targeted seat.
@ Lollysmum – who is the Labour candidate?
Just to be clear – a clear-out of Labour MPs in England would not be in our interest.
Confidence and supply basis is the only option for the SNP. The main two parties are so bereft of talent, other than the ability to maximise their own personal wealth and careers. As mentioned in an earlier post, Straw and Rifkind are just the tip of the iceberg.
The public are so sick to the back teeth with the corruption and self entitlement of the people elected to represent them that I believe the SNP will appear as a breath of fresh air which could change UK politics. What direction the main parties will take, I cannot hazard a guess, although self preservation will be high on the agenda, and the dirty tricks will be played out against each other. Expect more sordid revelations and stock up on the popcorn
In Scotland, however, the Labour party as it once was is finished. The troughers have fought their way to the front of the queue, and those who have held onto their socialist beliefs have been trampled in the stampede, resulting in an exodus of support to the SNP.
Those who remain, clutching on to the old mantra, are not the sharpest tools in the box, (eg: Neil Findlay), and are unlikely to form the basis for a new party. If that comes about, I suggest it would need to be devoid of any association with those involved today. Personally I don’t care. They’ve made their bed….
I did not realise that the SNP was so popular down south. There is hardly a news bulletin, politics show or phone in that we do not get a mention. All this free publicity – brilliant.
They are practically disappearing up there own a*******s with a mixture of rage, bewilderment and a complete lack of understanding of whats going on in Scotland.
Its called DEMOCRACY. Try it sometime – good for the soul
Brian Doonthetoon Re: Flags 6.18pm
Had a look your flag ideas, they are excellent.
Would you not take the contract on yourself Brian?
I am sure there is a market out there.
If you hear of anything, post it on Wings.
I am not sure I agree with the sophisticated analysis in the OP. Some labour MP’s may be clever enough to think like that, but those are rare because to make that case you have to know you are a hypocrite: and that is what I think is really at the heart of the fury amongst Scottish labour MP’s.
Labour moved to the far right in order to be electable in England. Personally I do not think that was necessary, but they were persuaded that it was, largely by the entryists, Blair and his cohort, who formed a party within a party to further their neoliberal aims.
A great many of the rest were too lacking in political principle, or brains, perhaps, to see the implications of that shift. They are only people and we have all met staunch tribal labour supporters who do not look at what the party does: they support it on the basis of what it used to be. I suspect many scottish labour MP’s are just like that
Their fury arises from that fact. The SNP do indeed hold up a mirror and they do react to what they see: but not rationally as the OP suggests. They react like most human beings when faced with strong evidence that they are behaving immorally: they get angry and they deny it. And they sincerely hate the ones who make them face their own hypocrisy. Especially when bystanders show that the challengers are right, which in this case they do by shifting their allegiance.
The opposition in the Westminster parties in the rest of the UK is not so visceral, because most Labour MP’s elsewhere are not aware of what is going on here, and are not made to face the reality of their rightwing position. There is little alternative there and so they can continue to believe they are still centre left, with a nod in the direction of pragmatism which does them no psychological harm at all.
I think this is related to cognitive dissonance.
Rev doll – could we try
Include paragraph breaks or I WILL PUT YOU IN ROOM 101?
There is a full Scotland wide Yougov poll for The Times tomorrow being released at 10 pm tonight. Had a look at ‘the usual suspects’ and the only ones I can see tweeting about it are the SNP. We shall have to wait and see.
Mealer says: Very good, Rev.
Labour also fear us because we are young and vibrant and they are old and smelly.
Thanks a bunch, Mealer. Some of us are old and smelly, but have been voting SNP since before you young and vibrant things were even born. And we still slog from door to door with leaflets & canvassing.
Salmond’s pork barrel (piggy bank?) says Micheal Gove.
Eilidh Whiteford said: “The last people who anyone should take lessons on progressivism from are Michael Gove and a Tory Government”
More like mince!
link to archive.today
re the flags – SNP in yellow and move the SNP logo up a few notches.
It was indeed Mark, aka Tartanpigsty who organised the 10000 Yes flags. I may see him next week and will have a word, but pretty sure he’ll be seeing these comments. Sounds like a plan to me.
I’ve been busy all day with family business, so I’ve only now had a chance to read your article. I must say I’m lost in admiration for your abilty to get straight to the heart of the matter Rev.
The Labour Party and the bulk of what passes for journalists in Scotland must hate your guts. You show them up time and time again for the spineless chancers that they are.You may well be the man who ends the career of quite a few of these dishonest carpet baggers, Murphy for example.
Alba says:
12 March, 2015 at 6:03 pm
Labour could have chosen to talk up the need for reconciliation, and used that to counter Tory rhetoric. But by letting the Tories write the ‘evil scots’ story, they leave themselves in a situation where an agreement with the SNP is nigh-on impossible.
Exactly, I thought this would have been an ideal opportunity for the man who saved the union to head south and give those Tories what for for threatening his beloved country. If Gordon Brown really cares about the union, he better get off his backside and start challenging the anti-Scottish nonsense gathering momentum south of the border. Gordon Brown, where are you? Your country and your party are in desperate need. It’s time to speak up for Scotland. Hello, ….. Hello?
Finally received my Scotland’s Changing bumph. It was wrapped in a lib/dem pamphlet. Maybe they are being wrapped in the bumph of the incumbent party for that area. Notice they didn’t have the balls to put the Union flag on it though. Also got a visit from the conservative candidate’s wife. Mrs Alexander Burnett.
Q. Cain I esk if you will vote for meh husband?
A. No
Q. Ayoh! Cain I ask if you have evah voted conswerative?
A. Have you read what your leader is saying about Scotland in the English press?
Ayoh! Well thankyou for your time.
She was a nice enough woman and I’m sure she means well. I did not swear once, I’m old fashioned, now if it had been Mr Burnett that might have been different.
Great piece, Rev.
Reminds me of Andrew Neil’s show this week, when one of the invitees blurted, the SNP can’t lose if they get a load of MPS.
At that point, Grant Shapps voice went up several octaves, declaring – Alex Salmond in the Cabinet! Even Neil was chuckling at this point, and told Shapps he was very mistaken, as the SNP would never take part in a British govt.
Shapps looked like he had his bum smacked. It was mildly amusing.
heraldnomore 7.27pm
“It was indeed Mark, aka Tartanpigsty who organised the 10000 Yes flags. I may see him next week.”
Herald, Tell him his Country needs him.
I dropped the old nom – de – plume to be less confrontational and hoped to get a better response from NAWBAGS regarding Scottish politics.
Instead i have witnessed unbelievable amount of anti Scottish from MSM and Westminster.
The great Scottish love in is a sham.
So back to being YESGUY. Loud and fucking proud. this country will never be equal in the eyes of the rest until we gain independence.
Scottish labour are liars who have kept us in ” our place ” for WM. This party deserves only contempt . Now the whole world can finally see the truth about the UK.
Threatening to join with their idealistic opposites to nullify our votes is a bloody sham. This is not democracy.
I hope you Nawbags are happy now. 🙁
And for next year we can have SNP, SSP, Greens and Tommy’s Party all with their own individual flags, so we can have a Scottish Parliament free from all Unionist Parties.
Hi Paula
Paula Rose says:
12 March, 2015 at 7:16 pm
Rev doll – could we try
Include paragraph breaks or I WILL PUT YOU IN ROOM 101?.
Rev ah wee addition to Paula’s suggestion, there’s nothing in room 101.
Could you make it,put in ah room with DimJim & for persitant offenders, DimJim & Mags Curran.
@ Morag
Not guilty! I did mention Gore Vidal but surely that is quite tame. It will have to remain a mystery mean time. But in my case, it seems to have been a one off.
Do you think I should tell the Lib Dems that their canvassers have leafleted my stair about five times in the last 8 weeks, with material for the neighbouring constituency?
I wonder if its an undercover Yesser making a few quid. I assume they have to pay to get this stuff out there. Maybe its my postie…
Ed Miliband on BBC Three until 9pm, taking questions from audience.
Live!
Listen in to hear they latest Labour lies.
@ ronnie anderson – give us a cuddle you lovely hunk, oops better do that on O/T.
brilliant stuff
though its not just voters making there own judgement based on what they saw
I think a lot of people are coming over to the snp based on you exposing the lies and trickery of these devious bastards….thank you
Haven’t had a chance to catch up the last couple of days but just wondering: surely full fiscal autonomy is exactly in line with the whole conservative ideology – fiscal responsibility.
If Scotland is such a burden and Barnet such a great benefit for us let’s just stand alone and take full fiscal responsibility – use oil, gas, whisky, income tax, Corp tax etc etc to pay for our indulgent spending. I’m fine with that.
Wait… you don’t want that Westminster? But we’re such a drain, no? We’re better thegither is it? Aye, better for who?
Let’s call it full fiscal responsibility. In fact, another tory ideology is the market – can we no create competition between Scotland and rest of UK. Competition is good for everything else – improve productivity and trim costs, no?
Let’s just privatise the UK, break it up and the people can become shareholders. Call them stakeholders if it makes you feel better. Mibbe we can get Cameron on board? Or is that not a good deal for England?
Paula Rose
Mine is Kelvin Hopkins a voice you never hear in WM, a virtually silent backbencher & been there for many years. The only thing good I can say is that he claims very minimal expenses.
@ Inbhir Anainn
Have just seen your answer to my post with the link to the Hazel Lewry article – dated Saturday 16 Feb 2013 titled “Is The Treaty of Union Already Dead?”
weegiewarbler.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/is-treaty-of-union-already-dead.html
Sorry for the delay but I’ve been somewhat busy working.
OT:
They just can’t help themselves.
Reform of Parliament should be prime target for next government
So many people have applied for tickets to hear Nicola on Monday that LSE have had to move the event to a larger venue 🙂 🙂
@Fiona
A first class post, and I think there’s a significant element of truth in what you say about Labour. The thing is, it doesn’t matter which socio-economic group among Labour supporters you speak to who exhibit the tribal venom when it comes to the SNP. I’m simply amazed to hear it from very well-educated professionals who otherwise display reason and restraint. Usually, I end up incredulously asking “do you *actually* believe what you’re saying?”
To those of you throughout this thread who have questioned the timing of and way the recent Labour & Sally Carbuncle crap have been delivered:
Posties are not supposed to place individual ‘Door to Door’ items inside each other, especially when the individual items are from different companies/organisations etc.
There are many different reasons for these rules.
One of these items is party political material and the other is a government information announcement. They are completely different categories from completely different sources and under no circumstances should they be placed inside each other.
If you are receiving these items placed inside each other you can always contact your local RM Delivery Office and ask the line manager for an explanation as to why his/her staff are delivering these items as though they were from the same source.
As for the timing of these items being delivered at the same time, it could probably just be down to coincidence, however, i very much doubt it and the line manager at your local delivery office will be able to give you a better answer.
What i can tell you is i don’t know who is responsible for the timing of the delivery of these items but i do know that the local delivery offices have no say in the matter.
They receive them and have to deliver them in the same week.
There may also be the distinct possibility that getting a close look at the books may be another factor.
Scotland is always disparaged about their over reliance on public sector jobs whilst enormous civil service and military is primarily based in London and the SE. Their pensions which are paid out of general taxation must run into the billions every year.
Are there any figures out there to compare?
@ Lollysmum
Seems like labour is your best vote.
So FUD tried to bribe the electorate with more drinkies at footy matches=”Project Beer”
That backfired spectacularly, so its back to the same old garbage that they have been spouting for years.
I don’t think SLab realise how much they are hated in Scotland, by the very people who once supported them.
You can only lie to the population so many times and then they wake up and say enough is enough.
It’s time to pack your bags at Westminster SLab, if project fear is the best you can come up with.
“Cheerio.”
Gary
O/T Years and years….and years ago the only
argument i had any respect for against voting snp was from
someone who said they needed to believe that the snp were
capable of being in government….i think they have more
than buried that argument now.
If the polls turn out to be accurate then they will have the
opportunity to show the whole of the uk that they are more
capable than that bunch of rogues down there too.
By the way how do you know that Scotland is a rich country?
is it the oil?..the whisky?…the shortbread?….do you need
an economist,a politician or a lord muck to tell you.
Try looking out your window,see all that wet stuff falling
all year round,the stuff we are always complaining about,
‘PENNIES FROM HEAVEN’…simple.
Westminster wer’e gonna rain on you!
O/T.
Apologise if someone has already posted this, but it seems that the SNP is doing even better in Edinburgh.
SNP:41.6%
Blue tories:18.2%
Red tories:23.3%
Lib/Dems:7.4%
link to archive.today
SLab might cling on while longer but they did what no party should ever do, they destroyed their own Scots working class vote base, vote by vote, job by job, year in year out. Everyone knows that Slab is just red tory protecting blue tory UKOK and every day the horrify UK media led by the BBC throws back its ugly head and lies at us.
You can either hold you nose and vote for this con or you can change Scotland and teamGB. Simple as that.
@Schrödinger’s cat, @Brian Doonthetoon, et al
re flags – If someone starts a crowd funder I’ll chuck in a few bob. If they were made available for sale at SNP meetings etc. would be an alternative funding source for local offices.
In agreement of everything apart from the exclusion/non mention of the Sunday Herald which was and still is behind Scottish Independence. Also, why is the Orange Survey attached when trying to reply?
This all supposes that the Labour Party actually want to win the election. Staying in opposition has a lot of benefits; no power, no responsibility, no blame and the money is just the same.
I’m getting worried about our lovely friends and acquaintances in the south of Grande Bretagne – they need our support, we offered that re the indy thingie, we must let them know we are still here.
Hadn’t seen the film “Taking Liberties” before. It is chilling to see those things brought together in this way, though none of the incidents are new to me. I am grateful for the link here
“Jim’ll Fix It!”
@ Tam Jardine 8.29
Good point.
This is what I tell Tory aquaintances of mine.The reality is the UK with its Blue,Red,and Amber Torys is a centralised almost Soviet style state where competition is not allowed lest it attracts Capital away from London.
They dont care cos they’re rich anyway,so Scotland can go hang.
Slightly O/T
Today’s furore on Scotland’s deficit underlines the point I have been making for several years now. We will have unnecessary difficulty achieving independence until we can explain to all Scots that we are comfortably self-supporting. When we do so we will have no difficulty winning. There is precious little “British” sentiment in Scotland today.
We can do so in positive and in negative ways.
If the average Scot had even the simplest grasp of what the UK national debt actually was in terms he or she could understand prattling on about problematic Scottish deficits would be put into proper context and would have minimal effect.
At the moment however a “trillion” is virtually meaningless to most people.
On a positive note on the other hand it is fairly easy to establish that services provided in Scotland are financed by taxation revenue raised in Scotland. No need to mention oil revenues.
We then establish that current figures have very limited relevance and only represent what our economy would achieve if we keep doing things the same – ie continuing long term London mismanagement of our economy – and the reason we want to be independent is to do things differently and better. (Nicola is touching on that area now).
And so on. There are two other stages to follow. We establish firmly to most folk that they are being lied to because they are thought to be stupid and we establish that clever people understand our economy and don’t believe the lies (or, conversely, that only foolish people do).
If we stick to these fairly simple themes we will win the next referendum.
I have limited appetite left for dealing with transient and peripheral political issues which may or may not help us if we don’t get the basic arguement – ie our viability – across
@Paula Rose
12 March 4:51 pm
A chambered cairn which will forever after be known by the name “Measly End O’ Hough”…
New Scottish You Gov Poll just out: Scot goes pop will be posting details soon.
SNP 46% (19%) lead (-2%)
Labour No change.
The Yougov poll for Scotland has these figures
SNP 46%
Lab 27%
Tory 18%
LD 4%
Green 3%
UKIP 2%
SNP down 2% from last month – margin of error stuff. Labour must be sick that all the negative headlines they put on the BBC about the SNP has not had much effect and their vote static.
I should have mentioned the the myth of Scots getting £1200 extra each in public spending should be dismantled.
“Identified public spending” on which this figure is based represents just about two thirds of public spending and that figure represents the geographic costs of providing essential services across thinly populated areas. You could provide a similar distortion from the West Country or Cumbria.
The other third of public spending is mainly on Government procurement and “national” expenditure,a hugely disproportionate proportion of which is lashed about in the South East of England.
One of the biggest areas of “national” expenditure for instance is on the defence forces and equipment of which Scotland gets less than half its population share.
When procurement and national expenditure is factored into the government spend the area in receipt of highest government per capita spend is London and the South East of England.
Scotland’s small 5 million population against the 35 million or so in the South East helps to provide the distortion
27% Labour?? What the fuck?
Joe at 10.22
Don’t forget there are rather a lot of fuckwits and folks who are still scared of Gordon.
Poll and Electoral Calculus suggests
SNP 48
Lab 11
Other 0
Sounds good. Figures will vary seat by seat, of course.
Question is, why do a quarter of Scots still say they will vote Labour!?
Tartanarse-aye got it in one, total fuckwits.
@castle hills chavie, don’t know if you do twitter but this is worth read. should bring a smile to your face.
link to twitter.com
two of my favorites:
“The entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks.”
“It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It’s called living.”
Has Eleanor Bradford ever EVER reported anything positive about the Scottish NHS?
Jeez..Charles Kennedy looks rough on QT.
A small point. Perhaps voters have decided to vote SNP instead of Labour but I don’t see it as ‘defection’. Essentially all political parties are coalitions, you can see these groupings within trade unions. As parties jockey for votes some groups will be lost. In Labour’s position they can feel free to implement a range of policies as you say. A supply and confidence arrangement makes their position a little more difficult than the Tories currently enjoy though. In their last government Labour were content to put policy through with Tory support when their own members openly revolted. Any arrangement will have to be tightly managed and agreed in advance. One major advantage is obviously being able to blame SNP. Many members from all sides of the house realise that continued purchases and maintenance of nuclear systems are unsustainable. It prevents proper funding of conventional defence spending and many on the Labour benches are opposed in principle. Being able to ‘blame’ SNP for this would suit many and this type of principle MAY have some advantages as well as negatives,.
Joemcg
“27% Labour?? What the fuck?”
I know joe, I don’t believe there are 27% of Scots who would vote Labour either.
FIX!
caz-m says:
link to indiegogo.com
There must be a flag maker out there somewhere.
SNP Saltires would be a great idea.
I love how it winds up some people who say that the SNP shouldn’t politicize the flag.
Personally I think it makes perfect sense.
After all, the SNP want political powers for Scotland.
Ultimately they want Scotland to be a sovereign nation, of which national flags are the most obvious emblem.
Of course, other parties are free to use the Saltire also. They don’t because it wouldn’t really look credible.
I think we could get a better design than the YES Saltires though.. Maybe the SNP letters in the bottom segment, rather than superimposed over the cross?
Joemcg
Wee Charlie Kennedy looks as if he opened his front door with his foreheed.
He’s halfcut.
Kennedy is pished the guy looks beaten
@caz-m
He’s not half cut he’s totally bladdered. Can’t even remember the questions he’s being asked.
Why a is Eleonor Bradford a health expert anyway! Was she a doctor or nurse or administrator. I doubt she has any health related qualifications.
Incidently she passes me everyday,on some hideous grannie bike. Cycling along the clyde side walkway. Also wears what I would only describe as home counties twin set and hideous cord skirts in strange colours.
Question Time “Will a Labour SNP coalition be a betrayal of English people?”
Oh dear…Stu just wet himself
Caz m ..the unionists normally stamp on the Saltire. Maybe thats why SNP don’t have it as their flag emblem!
@JJoemcg
How sad to see him like this on tv.
He was always worth listening to in these debates and often spoke sense. It looks like it’s all over for him now.
Question Time.
Is Charles Kennedy under the influence. I’m listening on radio and it sounds like it.
Coalition with SNP they’re all out of touch including Kennedy!
He let Scotland’s voters down there. Coward!!
It seems Scottish SNP voters are not up to being graded as full British so our vote is not equal to theirs.
Kennedy is pished out his brains.
Has Charlie fell off the wagon…words slurred and a bit stammery.. hope he isn’t back on the booze worrying about his political career.
Question Time “Will a Labour SNP coalition be a betrayal of English people?”
You can smell the utter desperation. Are they ever going to regret this kind of bigotry and hatred come the next indyref.
For that matter when Nicola appears in the debates there’s gong to be an awful lot of right-wing newspaper twats and bigoted idiots eating their own words. 😉
Big Jock,
I wouldn’t like you casting your eye over my sorry ensemble.
I’m watching question time.Charlie Kennedy looks particularly “clubable” tonight.
Why is David Walliams having a go at The Greens?
Worried about the Health of Charles Kennedy on Question Time?
I fear an old demon may have returned to him.
Please seek help Charles.
There is a good group of people out there who are waiting for you!
Turned tv over from awful QT to see Terry Pratchett tribute on Newsnight.
RIP to a wonderful inspiring magic talented human being
Who’s voting for Kennedy after tonight in his constituency then?
He’s not capable of forming a coherent sentence never mind an answer.
Oh well… looks like we are not allowed to democratically vote for a party of our choice according to this English audience.
Is Charles Kennedy pissed?
Starting to feel a bit uncomfortable for Charles Kennedy now 🙁
Charles Kennedy not quite there, sounding a bit incoherent
perhaps too much pre programme hospitality
Reminded of the Fast Shows character sitting in the high leather chair giving his worldly wisdom (kind off) after a few snorters
Charlie,Charlie.
I wish you all the best.
I think that Labour wifey might be phished as well,the way she’s havering.
If Charles Kennedy is not up to the job (I’m being polite here). The BBC should bot have allowed him to go on the show. They have a responsibility to guests and staff.
Oh sorry I said BBC and responsibility silly me!!!
We should presume Charlie Kennedy has not just seen the polls but taken the temperature in his constituency and just doesn’t think the game is worth the candle any more.
Understandable given that the lib dems are being led over the cliff by an unprincipled right-wing imbecile like Clegg.
Well I haven’t seen this obviously, but if you lot and Twitter are anything to go by, Charlie boy just committed political suicide live on air.
Remember guys, Kennedy knows he is unlikely to have a job after the GE. Should it surprise anyone that he might be a bit depressed at the moment!?
Nodded off there watching QT… talking about people disengaged from British society, disenfranchised insurgents, lone wolves etc. I thought we were still talking about the Scottish Caliphate for a minute there
Onwards and Big Joe,
An SNP Saltire would do me just fine. Hope their is a flag maker out there who can get these made up.
Jim McIntosh
Charlies kennedy’s foreheed is dented, how did he get by security.
At least one guy in the audience said why shouldn’t the SNP have a say in the UK parliament. Good for him, alas it got ignored by the panel.
Assuming Charlie loses his seat and can get on top of his issue,I really hope there’s a place for him in political punditry.Freed of party politics and responsibilities he’d have a lot to contribute.
Charlie boy has rarely bothered to anything much in parliament since the last election.
He didn’t even bother to vote on fuel tax. Obviously thinking that his Wester Ross constituents weren’t too fussed about whether or not they paid more tax on fuel to get around.
In the early days of the coalition, when they were still talking about more constituency boundary changes, I reckoned he was just waiting for his peerage in return for letting Danny Alexander have the seat.
@Joemcg
Yes one member of the audience raised the democracy question but no-one wanted to run with it. There was a Scotsman on the panel who did not stand up for Scotland…sad day.
There are plenty of Scots men and women watching or listening who are raging that he didn’t. Kennedy is toast!
Well that was an interesting QT, unfortunately for all the wrong reasons.
Between the Tory and Labour panelists being moronic and a worse for wear Charlie Kennedy, who perhaps should not have been on the panel. It was noticeable that Kennedy was not involved much and seemed to be out of it.
Its sad to see someone that was once so eloquent , now apparently in that condition
link to facebook.com
As if they would advertize Wings ha ha.
It would be interesting to find out how much Eleonor Bradford’s FOI requests to the NHS have cost. I believe she has done thousands.
Can’t be bothered watching English QTs any more. Huge uninformed audiences applauding tripe but Natalie Bennett was OK till I nodded off. Charles Kennedy looking disorientated rather than refreshed
The wonderful EBC has convinced ME totally of one thing. I have absolutely NOTHING in common with LONDON its Establishment, its politics nor its population. They may as well broadcast the USA NEWS as far as I am concerned. I do not identify with any of their LONDON facts or concerns its a different country and society.
Why the EBC continues to beam their ENGLISH news and propaganda into Scotland can only be as propaganda and to justify their thieving of the Scottish tv licence fee.
If the ENGLISH don’t like us voting for Scotland and its people then why the hell do they not wave us goodby and save themselves a fortune. That’s how stupid they are or is it fly.
Guys and gals, calm down. Go canvassing, raise money for cash strapped constituencies, write to MSM, get posters in windows and say your prayers. Counting chickens is for eejits.
Talk to your no voting granny, leave no stone unturned.
It is at this stage in any election campaign that constituency election committees are saying “if we only had X £’s more we could order XYZ in time for using in election.
PLEASE HELP THEM
Beir bua
ok, i have heard from third party that there was was a tv program on tonight called question night, i heard from a third party that it was different, no SNP on it, all thought possible the majority of the Scottish nation will be lending their vote to them, it was an unusual debate, one person actually said they had a right to have a say, can anyone with a tv licence in scotlandshire confirm this,
Other than witnessing The Right Honourable Charlie K looking quite stewed on QT, the thing that strikes me is how more capable and competent SNP/YES representatives come across in these TV debates. No doubt those down south, who know not that much about Scottish politics, are in for a rude awakening by the calibre of SNP politician about to land in their midst.
All four politicians on QT were poor, particularly Natalie Bennett, which is a shame because I was rooting for her. Maybe it was because the audience were quite intolerant of her views and The Greens remain an easy target still.
This reminded me of times (not so long ago) when the SNP used to get a rough ride, being too easily dismissed as irrelevant and told to stop living in cloud-cuckooland etc.
How times have changed!
Okay, just been doing my You Gov surveys. And complaining about the bias. The NHS I am supposed to be commenting on is clearly the non Scottish one. There is a clear bias against SNP with SNP not being included in questions, but the Greens are
The majority of respondents are obviously from England so the questions re SNP and a coalition with Labour end up with anti SNP results.
There is no skewing towards Scotland so I am afraid that polls coming out will show Labour doing well in the who do you trust to…’ questions.
Biased crud from You Gov.
Yes Joemcg , the only short sentence of truth came from the chap in the middle ( beard & glasses) saying that we were entitled to perticipate in WM . Just hope there are more like him an Lollysmum down there .
Actually as I often say , funny it was said tonight
” Quite frankly my dear I don’t give a dam!”
What a sad state of affairs when we have 4 Politicians and a Political commentator on a specifically Politacal Program hosted by an experienced presenter and not one out of the 6 ” experts” knew what the SNP have said regarding any coalition .
Maybe it does not suit them to broadcast the actual SNP position , as it has actually taken an option of a coalition away from Labour . Labour trying to make out they are in control and would be deciding what’s happening .
A total disgrace !
The worst QT for a long time .
However plenty material for Our Rev , unless he fell asleep like many others .
I don’t watch the box live, so won’t see any of QT until it’s on LivePlayer, but the tweets and comments about Chaz K would seem to suggest that he’s pished.
Can we please be spared an outpouring of grief over his ‘problem’? The man has spent most of his adult life in the political arena, and a goodly amount of it in positions of considerable responsibility. If he has turned up for QT ‘tired and emotional’ then he’s done so by choice. No-one forced him to take part – if he’s proved himself incapable of doing so in a coherent manner, so be it, and if that makes viewers ‘uncomfortable’? tough.
Charles Kennedy remains a member of a party which is becoming vanishingly small by the day. It was his choice to pursue a career in a business which encourages and enables participants to pursue lifestyle choices more applicable to the eighteenth-century. Chaz isn’t the first to fall prey to that bait, and won’t be the last. There’s still time for him to detox, consider what part he can play in the new Scotland, and deploy his talents afresh. He doesn’t deserve pity – he just needs something to look forward to.
And, BTW, how many of us would be able to resist access to 24/7 bars offering drink at late-70’s prices? I did catch a glimpse of CK t’other day, sitting in the background as someone sounded-off about this or that – he looked grave, heavy jowled and angry-eyed. That’s not the Kennedy I recall from (less-than?) a decade ago: one of the better post-Deaton HIGNFY stand-ins; the Ally McCoist of Scottish politics (as perceived by the metropolitan elite); a witty, cheeky-chappie; bearable Jock. He played the role well.
Perhaps it’s time for Charles Kennedy to realise the potential that circumstances have frustrated thus far. He’s only 55 years old. In any event, I’d much rather listen to CK pished than any amount of sober shite from the likes of Rennie, Alexander and Campbell – no matter how incomprehensible he may be, it proves that the man is human, and I suspect we can all detect basic decency in people to a greater or lesser degree. Charles Kennedy has, IMO, always possessed that fundamental decency. If he gets it together then huge opportunities await someone of his experience and affability – I’m sure most of us would welcome him into the fold with open arms, and, aye, mibbe even a wee swally.
Daily Record has been very quite these days. I would say that it is one nil to the Rev.
The Record came to fight us and got well and truly slapped all over the place.
C’mon David Clegg, what’s going through that tiny Unionist mind of yours.
All yours lies are really turning those polls round aren’t they. NOT! LOL
Hi Dave M Hill
El lie nor Bradford , nor BBC do not do FOI requests , they often say “figures provided by the Labour Party ” bla bla bla .
I have complained to Beeb often only to get same crap replies from them .
@ asklair. 1st there is no country called (scotlandshire) its SCOTLAND.
I dont have a TV Licence but that doesent stop me from watching Bbc.
The large majority of SCOTS will as the polls suggest vote for the SNP, Labour are Toast here,I hope that helps,we welcome new people to this site, your screen name is new to me ,please the next time you post remember its SCOTLAND without the shire.
Tam Jardine @ 10.46
You asked if Elinor Bradford had ever reported anything positive about NHS Scotland. Possibly not but she certainly missed her chance to do so tonight but bottled it as usual.
The Scottish Government has agreed to pay the 1% pay increase to nurses etc. – the only ones in UK to do so. Did not hear any report of that on Reporting Scotland tonight although it is on the BBC web site. Maybe I missed it but I tend to listen to Ms Bradford with close attention.
5 live now!
Morag from Dundee
Go Morag your telling them! Radio 5 Live QT phone in.
Ian Brotherhood
Sadly , I agree . Good post .
Morag tells them about democracy – ends by telling our friends darn South to
‘SUCK IT UP’! 🙂 Bravo Morag.
I’m not her but God I wish I was!
Karls Chennedy done Scotland proud tonight on QT.
We can haud oor drink , nae problemo !!
@ Legerwood
RS mentioned the 1% extra for the Nurses but no ELie nor Bradford . As expressed already she does not do Good News !
Sorry folks on I pad , loads o spelling mistakes to night .
@ Morag Charles Kennedy committed political suicide years ago, now he,s just going through the motions for when he picks up his P45 & the Big Pension + Resetlement grant & meanwhile at the bar there,s a few more bottles to get to the bottom of.
Tam Jardine
The only positive thing that Eleanor Bradford could possibly tell us, would be the day she announces that she’s finally movin back to England.
Party time!
@asklair
You’re a good laugh i think
If English isn’t you’re first language that’s OK
Try writing what you’re going to say on a bit of paper first before you post maybe that’ll help
You’re a little difficult to understand, but don’t let that stop you joining in
Just trying to be of assistance
If the SNP take all the seats in Scotland (Hopefully) Who would be the new Secretary of State for Scotland. Especially if there is no deal Done with the Red Tories.
Good analysis.
The ‘political compass’ is a bit whack, since Libertarian policies are typically right wing and pro-corporate while Authoritarian policies tend to be … right wing and pro-corporate.
However, the overall placement of Labour as in the middle between progressive parties (SNP, Green) and, for want of a better word, regressive parties (out for their own self interest and betterment irrespective of the medium and long term consequences to the country) is approximately correct, though I would place Blue, Orange and Red tories much closer together.
The tax raised in the UK has dropped from £600Billion (2010) to £466Billion (2014). A difference of £174Billion, a year of lost revenues. Scotland raises £54Billion a year (pro rata more than the rest of the UK).
Nicola is suggesting spending approximate £40Billion a year more (in the UK). £4Billion in Scotland which could be self financing (growth) and halt the Austerity, hitting the most vulnerable. The deficit would still drop, but more sustainably. Other fiscal measures in Scotland cutting Trident/illegal wars, tax evasion and tax on Oil sector, would more than recoup any losses. Scotland could raise even more tax revenues.
Th ConDem deliberately tried to destroy the Scottish Oil sector by raising taxes 11% (£2Billion) a year in 2011 Budget now up to 80%+. Oil companies stopped exploration. Scotland has lost £4Billion a year in Oil revenues. Total £16Billion.
A naive Green in Aberdeen City (1 vote – 600 voters?) is colluding with Labour/Unionist to destroy Aberdeen City centre getting the City into £Million of unnecessary debt and wasting £Millions of public money against the majority wishes and the public interest. People are protesting in the streets. Making secret deals with developers and creating further traffic chaos with non mandated schemes. It is a public disgace. Last time the Labour/Unionists were in power they nearly bankrupted the City and had to be censored. They rejected a £80Million Gift to pedestrianise the City supported by the majority.They are spending £33Million vandalising the Art Gallery. Spent £26Million paying off AECC debts, but rejected a funded project to build a new community football stadium which would have kept the traffic out of the City. Supported by the majority. They now plan? to build another entertainment venue which will have to be funded with public money, which is unaffordable. They are not fit for public Office or the generous remuneration they receive.
They have done the opposite to what the majority want on any Consultation, but have the cheek to suggest the publc should get more involved in the consultation process, which they just ignore.
The naive Green will take the stick, when they are thrown out of Office. Everyone is raging.
All to try and spite the SNP.
The most disgusting sight ever. Kennedy cosying up to Gove on QT. The reason many people do not watch it. Nauseating.
The majority in the rest of the UK will welcome the SNP policies. Remember protect NHS/Education and cut the Defict substainably. That is what the ConDem were voted in to do, which they seem to have conveniently forgotten. Not to sanction the vulnerable and starve people to death. Not a good fiscal policy. Cold, malnourished, vulnerable people get sick. Vote SNP to protect the vulnerable and have a fairer more equal society.
Cream-crackered after a long day, I had to switch off QT about midway through, but, from what I did see, it wasn’t a vintage edition.
That blonde Tory lady was scary, Ian Hyslop had obviouly decided he was on amateur night and didn’t have to try too-hard.
Charlie Kennedy, to be fair, did make the point that talk of a Labour/SNP coalition was rubbish, however, I felt he somehow couldn’t bring himself to explain what confidence and supply support meant.
Maybe he felt a Yorkshire audience wouldn’t understand the concept.
Most North Sea Firms upbeat on growth. Oops. Read before the beeb spike the story 🙂
link to bbc.co.uk
BBC R4 morning news say there’s going to be an announcement from SLab and/or all of them that there will be no deal with SNP in Westminster, says Stormin Norman whatisface, that girning bald bloke from the 1930’s. R4 very angry and say its this deal that’s killing SLab in their Scotland region and the actual UK in England, or they saw the latest yougov poll. All that attack propaganda wasted doesn’t make for happy red and b;ue tory shills and liggers like…
Hope Charles Kennedy’s hangover’s not too bad, a piss artist ConDem career ends with a very sore head and nausea for a lot of people that were duped into voting Libdem last time.
BBC GMS now moving on to develop a spat between UK Transport Committee and Scottish Government. In fairness UK Committee saying that they want to reduce APD but BBC trying to push the issue that if Scotland reduces APD it will affect English airports.
Don’t recall BBC interviewing the hundreds of thousands of Scots that have to travel to Newcastle, Manchester etc to get significantly cheaper flights.
BBC GMS at it again – by ‘coincidence’ they interviewed the manager of Edinburgh Airport yesterday only to try and put the boot in this morning.
If only Labour had stayed true to their socialist principles-
they would be as ‘successful’ as the SNP is now.
Just one more reason for hating the SNP,
which is probably just a case of
projecting their self-hatred elsewhere.
From this and many past episodes of QT,
there is sufficient evidence to at least dent the myth
that the English people are OK,
it’s only Westminster that’s the problem.
Scotch whisky sales in the UK shrank by 5%. The whisky industry attributes the drop to “onerous” levels of taxation, amounting to 78% as a share of the price of an average bottle.
“In last year’s Budget, the chancellor highlighted Scotch whisky as a ‘huge British success story’.
C’mon George you know you want to say English success story, we understand.
I do have sympathy for a man loosing a battle with a bottle that can take away your family, friends, finances, and even your life.
Don’t like your politics Charles but wish you a speedy recovery.
True Blue Anna Soubry, on Question Time, seems to have dedicated her life to being Maggie Thatcher’s Mini-Me.
What a horrible thought and a waste of a life.
She seems to look miffed that she has missed the opportunity to close down the Mines, break the Unions and introduce the Poll Tax
If only Argentina could do something silly in the Falklands.
She would soon show them how superior Britania & Englandshire are
Scottish salmon exports to US rise sharply,
reports the BBC online.
However, who owns Scotlands salmon farming industry?
“Marine Harvest is still with us, after reinventing itself many times, and is still the biggest of the ‘Big Four’ which control around two-thirds of Scottish production.
The members of this quadrumvirate – Marine Harvest, Scottish Sea Farms, Lighthouse Caledonia and Greig/Hjaltland – are all owned by companies listed on the Oslo stock market. Other substantial producers such as Lakeland and Mainstream are also owned by Norwegian multi-nationals.“
Westminster neo-Liberal economic policy of the last 35 years –
sell off national assets to the highest bidder
and share out the proceeds with your Tory friends.
‘But this is not very good for Scotland’ I hear you say.
The answer from Westminster is just two words,
the second of which is ‘Scotland’.
The first word has four letters and begins with an ‘f’.
Vote SNP – and put an end to exporting Scotland’s profits.
Nothing but bad news for Scotland today.
Scottish salmon exports to the US rise sharply Exports of Scottish salmon to the US leapt by nearly 40% last year to £215m, according to new industry figures.
Most North Sea oil and gas companies are planning for growth this year despite the fall in the price of oil, according to a Bank of Scotland report.
Scottish SHS nurses get a 1% pay increase.
We’re doomed, doomed I tell ya.
Used to be if your kisser was on telly or you worked behind the scenes in television, you’d be quite chuffed to be recognised. Today, holding your hands up to working for aunty beeb basically means you work for a state propagandist more popularly known for covering up institutionalised abuse and shitting all over democracy than anything relevant or useful to society.
I’d say that would make you about as popular as a fart in a lift at parties and an instant conversation killer when the topic of ‘and where do you work?’, is raised. I mean do the well known faces actually still believe they are our friends in the living room? That they contribute in any meaningful way to the betterment of their fellow man? Keep us informed, entertained or enlightened? To be blunt, they don’t.
Right now what they are participating in, is misleading the public and aiding in the stirring of ethnic tension throughout these islands where none should exist. Playing their part within the mainstream narrative of the past four years must give them the conscience of a stone, married to a decent wage. Let’s face it, the decent or more talented and objective journos didn’t last long on our screens once the referendum got under way.
What’s left?
Those who can still look in the mirror whilst doing what they are doing.
Apologies, forgot this bit:-
link to atlanticsalmontrust.org
link to dailybusinessgroup.co.uk
A couple of weeks ago the big “warning” headline from BBC Scotland was,
“North Sea oil industry ‘close to collapse’.”
And BBC Scotland were predicting the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs in the Oil Industry. (Scary)
But look at the headlines in today’s BBC Scotland website,
“North Sea firms ‘upbeat on growth’.”
Most North Sea oil and gas companies are planning for growth this year.
BBC Scotland being found out trying to scare the people of Scotland, AGAIN.
Shower of lowlife.
Re the BBC’s immigration poll…
link to scottishrefugeecouncil.org.uk
link to vice.com
The BBC / ITV in Scotland is the Labour Party in Scotland. Along with the Sun, Record etc., the Brit establishments only hope of retaining Scotland in their union is the media, which has become a Soviet styled lying machine
BBC Scotland starting to put a lot of emphasis on their “scary” words again. Remember during the referendum, words like,
“warning”
“warned”
“crisis”
“fears”
“uncertainty”
Well they’re back. The highlighter pen is out again.
Like the BBC Scotland story this morning, “warning”,
Scotland is facing a GP recruitment “crisis”.
“warning AND “crisis”, in the same sentence.
And regarding the story that Scotland is short of GPs and therefore is a “crisis”. How would you describe the situation in England, where there is a WORSE ratio of GPs to patients.
With regards to C Kennedy. He’s spent years as an mp and done precious little for the area.
I’ve seen him staggering around in Inverness, no self respect or any respect for his constituents.
He was seen cosying up to ukip during the indref and who can forget his performance in the commons re Juncker.
I haven’t forgotten nor will I forgive
link to youtube.com
r
Great links as usual Nana. Thanks especially for the Scottish Refugee Council link.
GAPs take on it.
link to newsnet.scot
Lollysmum says @ 4.52pm
“I know that may seem a bit rich coming from an English commenter”
Your not English Lollysmum your a winger!
________________________________________________________________
Joemcg says@ 5.20pm
“Danny Alexander in deep shit. Makes you wonder if he got up to dodgy stuff during the referendum.”
Does the
Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God.
wear a funny hat?
___________________________________________________________
Briandoonthetoon says
@6.06pm
“My own feeling is that Labour’s HATRED of the SNP started to raise a head of steam in 2007, when they found themselves without their previously enjoyed power. This was their slap on the head.”
No it didn’t, the visceral hatred the Labour lot have of the SNP has always been there it just became more apparent when the SNP became a clear and present danger but they hated us as much as people (with any sense) hate UKip today when we weren’t a danger to them, I saw and experienced that raw hatred the very first time I voted in the early nineteen seventies.
_______________________________________________________________
Ronnie Anderson says @ 6.22
“Awe we’re no news worthy noo 15min Scottish news from STV/ITV.”
There were more important things on last night to give “The news where you are”
FITBA!
_____________________________________________________________
caz-m says @6.32 pm
“There must be a flag maker out there somewhere.”
link to stevensonflags.com
_____________________________________________________________
Tam Jardine says @ 10.46pm
“Has Eleanor Bradford ever EVER reported anything positive about the Scottish NHS?”
She once said the WRVS make a nice cup of tea.
____________________________________________________________
Cartiona Shearer BBC says
Ochone ochone
“the BMA has (yawn) warned that Scotland faces a GP recruitment CRISIS” (arg flee, run for your lives)
“With almost a fifth of practices reporting a vacancy” (OMG there are job vacancies for doctors in Scotland whatever shall we do?)
“However (sotto voce) the Scottish government has said Scotland has more GP’s per head of population than England”
(at least I think that’s what she said because I couldn’t quite hear her for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth going on )
______________________________________________________________
Dave McEwan Hill says @ 12.02am
It would be interesting to find out how much Eleonor Bradford’s FOI requests to the NHS have cost. I believe she has done thousands.
Can’t be bothered watching English QTs any more. Huge uninformed audiences applauding tripe but Natalie Bennett was OK till I nodded off. Charles Kennedy looking disorientated rather than refreshed
1; Bradford, its worth remembering that every FOI request costs the recipient an average of £189.00 so think about that the next time you need keyhole surgery but the machine required to do it is not available as it’s being used by a neighboring Health board as they cant afford one each,
I know this (was true) when my wife need emergency surgery only to be told they would need to open her up to do it as the keyhole surgery machine wasn’t available
The difference was critical as keyhole surgery means you could be off work for as little as one week, whereas the more invasive surgery they had no choice but perform meant that she was off work for six weeks recovery time, this in turn cost her her job
Gaun yersel Eleanor you get the truth at any cost girl!
2: Kennedy
Well done Charlie boy all you did was reinforce the fallacious remarks of Ray Winstone
link to youtube.com
By the way a word of caution Alex Salmond has been on here as well
link to youtube.com
___________________________________________________________
Tackety Beets says @ 12.49am
Ian Brotherhood
Sadly , I agree . Good post.
That goes for meinaw.
__________________________________________________________
Michael McCabe says @ 1.56
“If the SNP take all the seats in Scotland (Hopefully) Who would be the new Secretary of State for Scotland. Especially if there is no deal Done with the Red Tories.”
I would be willing to bet they would ask this guy
link to tinyurl.com
Noo that would be a laugh watching them turn themselves inside out!
A Labour Party numpty was in the pub last night spouting the nonsense that the biggest party gets to form the government.
I says, “so even if the Tories get, say, 300 out of the 650 seats, Labour get 299 and SNP get 51, you’re still saying the Tories get to form the government?”
“Absolutely,” says he, “and Cameron gets to be Prime Minister, that’s how the rules work.”
“So,” says me, “Even if an SNP/labour deal means they vote down the Tories by 350 to 300 at every single House of Commons vote, you’re saying the Tories will be able to be in Government and still be in a position to pass laws?”
“Yes,” he insists, “that’s how it works, the biggest party governs.”
Fortunately everyone else in the pub was able to see through his nonsense argument and dismissed him as thick as mince (except me, who dismissed him as the dirty wee liar that he actually is).
Turns out the British military don’t want further devolution to Scotland. Not just the specific issue of removing Trident, but that devolution in other areas could affect their ability to occupy Scotland.
Health and safety powers might influence operations involving Trident! So they don’t want further powers coming to Scotland.
Arresting leaders will be next up.
Developers who fund the Labour/Unionists get planning permission through.
@ Macart
I have pre ordered London calling, looking forward to reading that. Also buying Alex Salmond’s book, I wonder what he may reveal.
Wee confession, I haven’t been to newsnet in a couple of days. Slaps wrist!
Mr Campbell alleges that Labour “has attracted almost no criticism in newspapers or on TV for being allied to the Tories for three years.”
One, who did the SNP ally with through 2007-11 to get its budgets passed? Oh yes, the Tories.
Two, agreeing that the Union should be saved is not an exclusively Tory philosophy. Most LibDems support the Union, and many Communists.
Must admit I’ve never bought or read a biography in my puff, most especially not one on a politician.
Having said that, in this instance I may change the habits of a lifetime and buy Alex Salmond’s.
Two reasons –
1. Hearing first person accounts from genuinely interesting figures is always more entertaing.
2. I just want to see Mr Torrance and Mr Cochrane’s faces as the book sales outstrip their own. 🙂
MoD concerned about Scottish powers. 🙁
So am I, we want some!
link to archive.today
Nice clear example of “whittabootery” there, Will Podmore
Will Podmore
When are the various Tory parties going to realise that they have to amalgamate if they want to have any chance of beating the SNP?
Will Podmore knows fine well that Labour could have brought down the 2007 SNP Scottish government but didn’t dare.
And how many council’s did Labour get into bed with Tories in 2012 to prevent the largest Party forming the “government” of the council?
Liked the phrase used by Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp in The National this morning (which also had plug for Wings by SNP candidate in Argyll) “A new schism in Scottish politics opened up…..by those who believe in Scotland and verses those who don’t believe in Scotland.”
Labour doesn’t even trust Scotland to print its election propaganda.
And GMS this morning again had two pro unionist journalists from The Record and The Sun on about the SNP at Westminster with the usual attacks from Torquil Crichton but again no SNP / Indy counter point.
How long must we remain in this condition?
link to labourlist.org
He has escaped his minders again.
Today marks the anniversary of the Dunblane massacre 1996
I will never forget that day.
re: Flags
link to ebay.co.uk
Well said Nana.
Will Podmore can’t even formulate a coherent argument: “The Tories voted in support of some SNP policies once (which wasn’t ignored by press) so therefore the press are correct to turn a blind eye to Labour and Tory being In Bed Together during the indyref.”
Big logic fail there, Mr Podmore. Thanks for showing us your IQ deficiencies, very enlightening.
O/T But I was shopping in Lidl Inverness yesterday and was annoyed with the Daily Record promotion. Emailed them to say that I will be suspending shopping there until they return to some sort of political neutrality.
They can be contacted on customer(dot)services@lidl.co.uk
Tell them please.
@ Nana Smith SNP should,nt do any backroom deals with Labour,any talks should be conducted in the full glare of the Scottish People.
Politics & the way Politicians conduct themselves has to change & what better start & demonstrates to the British Public at large there,s a new kid on the block, that can be trusted.
The Ministry of Defence want a further 30 sq km of the sea between Applecross & Rona for testing torpedos. The seabed there is the best in the area for langoustine fishing and will mean excusion or restriction for local boats. The sooner this junk is relocated to the Solent the better.
I thought Charlie Kennedy was particularly lucid on Question Time and even displayed occasional flashes of Lochaber Bar type brilliance, thing is I was pished myself last night which might explain it.
@ronnie anderson
Quite agree Ronnie. I want full disclosure thanks very much.
I just put up the links for you all to read.
link to commonspace.scot
Fred,
‘and will mean exclusion or restriction for local boats.’
Never mind the boats, what about the poor langoustines! What have they done wrong? Shelling’s one thing but torpedos seem a tad excessive.
Looks like Will Podmore is busy this morning.
You cannot fight an idea”: Why Labour is increasingly bleak about its prospects in Scotland
link to archive.today
So Dim Jim’s decided to put a bomb on the latest poster…
link to politics.co.uk
@ John King Ochone ochone ah hiv ah 1st Aid certificate & ah Plebiscope, ah once made ah neck collar oota ah Daily Record for ah wain with ah neck injury an the Doctor in Yorkhill Hosp asked who had taught that at 1st Aid classes.
Dare ah say it, the only other time I put the Daily Record to good use.
@Wil Podmore
“Many communists” What all three of them?
“Patriots for Powerlessness”
Nice description from Robert McNeil in the Herald today
“At the time Scotland lacked a Better Together campaign and it was not until the advent of the Patriots for Powerlessness movement in the eighteenth century that Scots accepted that they were relatively rubbish.”
@ nana
“So Dim Jim’s decided to put a bomb on the latest poster”
What is it about Jim Strangelove and bombs? Not only that but keeping true to form he is just pinching another Tory idea and poster.
Sinky, don’t forget that the SNP dropped their anti-Tory rules for local government a while ago, and an SNP/Tory coalition runs Dumfries & Galloway. Labour took 15 places on the authority but a ruling coalition was formed by 14 Conservatives and 10 SNP members.
ClanDonald, I was pointing out that it’s a bit rich of the SNP to complain about Labour agreeing with the Conservatives over opposing separatism, when the SNP depended on the Tories for 4 years to get their budgets passed. And the SNP and the Tories both seem to like EVEL.
As Tory activist Tom Clarke wrote (Conservative Home, December 1, 2014), “Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond have recently ruled out ‘propping up a Conservative Government’. But this is Tory-phobia with a purpose, which is mining votes in Scotland’s Labour heartlands where any whiff of a deal will scupper their chances. Labour is their prime target – and we should be glad.”
So smart Tories can see that voting SNP aids them in the election.
Fred: I was pished myself last night which might explain it.
Ha ha! Now, that’s satire!
Red Tory, Blue Tory: they will always put Westminter’s wants above Scotland’s needs.
Labour took 15 places on the authority but a ruling coalition was formed by 14 Conservatives and 10 SNP members.
But…but…the largest party always takes power…..
Plodmore: I was pointing out that it’s a bit rich of the SNP to complain about Labour agreeing with the Conservatives over opposing separatism, when the SNP depended on the Tories for 4 years to get their budgets passed.
Eh?
You do realise there is a difference?
In any event, if you do not, can’t you get it into your head that all parties oppose all things SNP to the extreme level of wiping out the SNP as elected representatives?
Whereas in that statement above you have proven the SNP, in times of minority governance, is willing to include other parties if it is in the interest of Scotland’s health.
For fuck’s sake, get a grip!
Will Podmore,
Do you think there’s room for two unionist parties in Scotland now that support for the union is hovering around the 50% mark?
Proud scots=Patriots for powerlessness
Barbara Watson says:
“It looks like it’s all over for him now.”
I’m afraid it’s been over for Kennedy for quite some time.
Several years ago my wife and i waited on a taxi just outside Glasgow Queens Street Station, guess who was paralytic and attempting to prop up the station wall at the taxi rank.
Kennedy has had a fondness for the demon drink for quite some time.
Not exactly the example you expect from an elected member.
YouGove poll, 12% of No voters have changed their minds or are not sure, compared to 3% of Yes voters!
HolyMoly!
Mealer-when was the last Indy poll? Seems like months ago.
Just pre-ordered Alex’s book, The Dream Shall Never Die, on Amazon. Looking forward to reading his diary written during the yes campaign. Wonder if there is something written on the day he outed Nick Robinson as a lying blowhard.
SNP have a lot of good stuff at their online shop. link to snpstore.org
Joemcg wrote:
“Maybe a post office worker can tell us if they have been told to deliver both leaflets at the same time?”
Joe (and others),
I posted a reply to this at 8.53pm further up the thread but for some unknown reason it took forever to appear on the thread.
(It’s at 8.53pm on the 12th March 2015)
😉
@Will, Cameron’s plucking at the harpstrings of the Englishmans traditional xenophobia to screw Labour. We’re talking about the nation which named all the peoples of the earth, Frogs, Dagos, Huns, Taffs, Spics & Paddies etc’, they’ve left Jock alone for a while as he was useful for bayonetting the others for imperial gain but now it’s the Sweaties turn and you’ve turned up here to play your part.
@ Podmore – “Tory activist”, an oxymoron if ever there was one. Anyway, I generally discount any comment from someone who uses the word ‘separatist’ in the context of Scottish independence and I shall continue to do so.
The majority of people in the rest of the UK will appreciate the SNP policies.
The majority of the electorate do not support sanctioning and starving the most vulnerable. Support NHS/Education. Do not support austerity or transferring funds to the wealthy who caused the crash at the expense of the poor. It costs more than it saves.
Why do Trade Unions support and fund Unionist Parties rather than support their members.
“an SNP/Tory coalition runs Dumfries and Galloway”
Please keep up, Mr Podmore, you are WAY behind the times 🙂
Stoker-thanks for the info. I agree there is definitely something dodgy going on with the delivering of those two leaflets.
Dim Jim going down in his personal ratings and I am sure the more they see and hear from him the further it will drop.
What new promise will he be making today I wonder?
PS: Here is a bit of history from 2009, SNP minority government budget.
link to archive.today
Re-Seperatist, this word always conjures up star wars to me.Maybe the negative mob consist of an army of sticky keyboard sci-fi fanboys!
OT (but relevant)
We often see parallels drawn between Ireland and Scotland’s journey.
YouGov has a short overview.
link to yougov.co.uk
What stands out for me is that it took almost 50 years from the collapse of Unionism in Ireland until independence. Jeez, I hope we can cut that timescale!
There’s more.
———————————————–
Mr Salmond said:
I have led a minority administration and a majority one. Minority government requires negotiation – to recognise honest disagreement, and then compromise in the public interest.
And Presiding Officer, I have no idea if that experience of minority government in this place will ever again come in handy in another place.
Interestingly when we had a minority government, the SNP was on the side of the majority for 80% of the votes in this chamber. There were hardly any occasions when all of the other parties lined up against us. Mind you there was that small matter of the Edinburgh trams!
But perhaps the better, more important point to reflect on today is that on many occasions, in both minority government and majority government, there has been cross party support for social and economic change.
For example I think on February 2008, when the Liberal Democrats and Greens voted with us to restore the principle of free higher education in Scotland.
Or June 2009, when we passed the most ambitious climate change legislation of any country in the world – we had the support of every party in this chamber, including the conservative party.
Or March of this year when Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Greens joined with us to ensure that nobody need face eviction from their home as a consequence of the bedroom tax.
But most of all, I think about the consistent and often joint endeavour, against the headwinds of economic circumstance and austerity – to make Scotland a stronger, fairer, more cohesive nation.
———————————————————–
Full link here.
link to news.scotland.gov.uk
DR readership 100,000 (out of 5.2million) has halved since the VOW. They have lost £thousands. ‘No comments allowed’ since the VOW, will lose £thousands of adverting revenues. That will teach them. Going going down. Explains the hook up Lidl?, trying to get readership back. Liars.
Shettleston:
A deprived and neglected part of Glasgow, where a man who lives to be 55 can consider himself lucky … Glasgow East is a tough area, where 30 per cent of the working age population is on unemployment or incapacity benefit, nearly 40 per cent of children grow up in homes where there is no adult in paid employment, and three fifths of the people have no access to a car. The social services have many thousands of local children and adults on their books.
link to caltonjock.com
Delivering the two leaflets. Is this being funded by public money? That is illegal. Political Parties can’t use public money to fund Political literature. Breaking electoral rules. That is what they did in the Referendum. BT illegally used £Millions of public money, dubious contributions and broke Purdah to campaign against Independence. BT broke all the electoral rules.
Our resident Trolls comment in N/S.
Will Podmore
The key point is that “public opinion in Scotland remains where it was: 45 per cent for independence and 55 per cent against.”
He’s no up tae speed yit is he he he.
john king says:
13 March, 2015 at 8:53 am
Lollysmum says @ 4.52pm
“I know that may seem a bit rich coming from an English commenter”
Your not English Lollysmum your a winger!
……..
If more people in Scotland were like Lollysmum we’d be negotiating the terms of independence by now. Ever thought about moving here Lollysmum ?
INCOMING!! Barnett bomb about to be released. Screaming towards Scotland. Predict it will land with a dull thud. Loud wailing heard from labour HQ.
I think that when it comes to local government,things are a wee bit different,a real focus is on local issues and may differ from national politics,for example, a housing development or local amenities. So who allies with whom is a bit misleading I feel.
Brian Powell says:
13 March, 2015 at 11:31 am
YouGove poll, 12% of No voters have changed their minds or are not sure, compared to 3% of Yes voters!
HolyMoly!
That would put them at about 50:50 (1.8 million each).
Interesting.
Ken500 wrote:
“Delivering the two leaflets. Is this being funded by public money?”
Delivery of The Labour Party guff will be funded by head office in London and the Sally Carbuncle tripe from the UK gov will most definitely be delivered at the taxpayers expense.
At least, that’s how i understand it.
Just had a brief discussion on twitter with a ‘Proud Scot’ who was quoting Deutsche bank saying iScotland would be an economic basket case.
Commended him on his faith in banks being truthful and stopped replying when he said that ‘especially’ Scotland would never cope being independent.
Where do the folk come from, self loathers, why don’t they live somewhere else if they despise Scotland so much?
As for Chas Kennedy, I doubt he was ever on the wagon for very long
D Torrance (bless his tory socks) has finally said something that I can agree with on ‘The Big Debate’
Immigration. Not a big deal for us Scots. grudging 🙂
Liz: Deutsch Bank also put out a report recently saying Scotland would benefit from independence, a quick Google should find it.
That bank had a report not long back stating that smaller European states would fare better independent,including Scotland and Catalonia, only months after saying the opposite. Obviously,someone at that bank didn’t get the pre indyref memo. 🙂
Nana Smith says:
13 March, 2015 at 10:27 am
So Dim Jim’s decided to put a bomb on the latest poster…
That is to remind us that he is all for Trident and the war in Iraq.
The poster also reminds me of the Tory “Labours Tax Bomb” poster from the ninties. It real is getting difficult to tell the difference between the Red and Blue tories.
Will Podmore.
You are a troll. No arguement or discusion, just a few lines and the usual ” seperatist ” jibe chucked in.
Are you scottish ?? The reason i am asking is because you really like to get around throwing your drivel. Do you realise that if you are a Scot you are demeaning your own folk.
You NEVER answer any questions put to you , just throw in shitty comments to annoy other readers.
I said during the referendum you are nothing but a troll. Now your spouting more indi stuff and were having an election. If SNP have a large contingent of mp’s at WM acting on behalf of the folk who votes for them in the thousands, who are you to tell us to vote for any other party when they offer bugger all to anyone here.
Your a FUD Mr P.
“So smart Tories can see that voting SNP aids them in the election”
Yeah Will.
Go “smart” Tories.
That is the only worthwhile sentence you typed.
I just checked to see if I was on the electoral register and I’m not so that’s nice and after over 30 years too!
SO I phoned to re-registered and the electoral register officer said that although I had been un or de registered, I would still have been on the register if when I went to polling station May7.
I asked when they started the new register and that was on Sept 19th 2014 and they had decided to wait until after referendum before to start new system. If you’re not sure check and see your register as they are taking anyone off the register for any reason although they didn’t say what the reasons are as its probably a long list of things.
I also asked why they waited until Sept 19th 2014 and response was garbled, sadly. Im not paranoid but wtf are they up to down there? “Down there” was the term for the electoral registering changee dept, presumably.
Above all else, I asked why I had actually been removed from the Electoral register but got no reason. Legally I want a reason but not on the phone, in writing. I might get one but what can you do.
Exasperated and mildly creeped out but still voting SNP, have you got that Electoral Register?
JeezLouis as they say in Auchnagatt.
Getting set in aboot them.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Tried to post this before but it did not take, so I am linking to it elsewhere.
The paper is off-topic, and I am sorry for that: but it deals with the eurozone crisis in a very accessible way. It is long but there is a lot of good information about the structure and origin of the eurozone problems and the way that the neoliberals frame the issue in order to control the analysis and the possible solutions available.
I think that some here might find it useful and I hope some will read at least parts of it
link to thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net
@Luigi
@Brian Powell
link to cdn.yougov.com
Y/N … Error of +/- 3% etc
It’s been around 50:50 for the last six months.
After the election polls could swing either way, depending how the Unionist play ball (assuming a good SNP turnout).
If SERIOUS Devo can be negotiated then I suspect Yes won’t rise much in polls. We will have a period of more powers, but no immediate majority call for independence.
If our representatives are ignored/frozen out, then Yes will rise well above 50% in polls. After Holyrood 2016, if Yes is showing consistently above say 60%, I would expect it would be time to react to being ruled by rUK when they have no mandate.
Bit Ironic eh
Given Sir Ian Woods loyalty and support for the Yoo Knighted Kingdom his company’s gone off to work on Norways oil
Maybe Dim Jims Bomb
Is a Lurve Bomb
How we stopped voting Labour and learned to Lurve Jims Bomb
YESGUY
“Are you scottish ?? ”
Heres Plodmore
link to facebook.com
North of the Watford gap is foreign territory to him
Johann? Dim Jim? Hmm…
She stood in front of an Asda,
she stretched forth her hand:
“Higher prices for everyone
in an independent land!”
And what reward did she receive
for doing London’s will?
What rich guerdon did she obtain
for being Curran’s shill?
Back-stabbed, forced out to grass,
like any common jade,
meanly kicked to the bottom of the heap –
and that’s how she was paid.
Politics is a rough old game,
and it is getting rougher,
for poor old Johann’s been replaced
by an even bigger bluffer.
Hi yes I knew they -DB – had done that but he was always going to disagree no matter what was said.
@ Will Podmore
Dumfries & Galloway is at present run by a minority Labour group of fourteen plus one independent. Previously, in the course of a year, it went from an SNP/Tory administration to an SNP/Labour one. None of these groupings has been of particularly long duration in a fluctuating political situation.( Who knows, it could have changed again since the last time I looked.)
Will, you are invariably polite and your interest is welcome, but please, if you don’t live here, it is incumbent on you to get your facts right before you lecture us.
Many people who comment here are sophisticated observers of the Scottish political scene for many years and there are those like myself who were long-time Labour voters who gave up voting for that party in revulsion because we watched it change inexorably into the opposite of what it had purported to be.
It can be wearisome to have someone come on here and time and again treat us as if we were naive provincials who simply had been bitten by a strange and virulent bug of nationalism and have no idea why we vote. It would take too long to explain to you my journey away from Labour to the aim of independence as the best way of achieving a better future for Scotland.
I am not really a nationalist but will vote for SNP as the best way of achieving that aim. I am sorry for those people in England who also could do with a better future than what is offered to them but there seems no exit strategy available to them at present since sadly they have been let down by an inchoate left. ( That said, there are those in rUK who understand at a deeper level than you appear to, what we are about here. Perhaps you should listen to their voices?)
Anyway, you aren’t going to make any converts here with your political pinpricks. There is nothing you can tell people on this site which they don’t already know and you seem to know little of Labour in Scotland.
“Jim’ll Fix It!” should be the Slab campaign slogan. How no…….
I’ve often thought that the biggest obstacle to the independence movement was British Nationalism. Pretty much everyone I talked to who voted No did so for nationalistic reasons. They felt “more British”. It was about the “Union Jack” and what it meant to them.
And it’s still going on. We have trolls on here condemning the SNP for siding with other parties in the interest of the country, while the Labour party simply opposes everything the SNP do, even if Scots suffer as a result. MPs like Jim Hood proudly announcing that the Union comes before the welfare of his own constituents.
All for the red white and blue. Rule Brittania. God save the Queen.
And the irony is that of all the people who voted Yes, I don’t know a single one who did it for nationalistic reasons. We all voted to cut the strings to a corrupt self-serving Westminster government that has abandoned the people and now serves the wealthiest.
Now these same people are urging Labour voters to vote for Tory policies that will harm the working class. Set aside your beliefs and vote for the Union. The Red White and Blue comes before everything else.
And they call us nationalists.
Karmanaut says:
“Pretty much everyone I talked to who voted No did so for nationalistic reasons. ….. of all the people who voted Yes, I don’t know a single one who did it for nationalistic reasons”
I’m sure you are right in 90% of cases. This is something which is completely lost to observers from down south. They just don’t it.
I think of myself, and see others with similar views, as a pro democracy activist on a quest for a more just, peaceful, respected, fairer society. A long time ago I realised that Hell will freeze over before UK institutions and systems of government will meet my aspirations.
Conversely, I see my opposition as tribal British Nationalists who can give no better reasons for their believes in a United Britain than nostalgia and desire to strut the world stage.
Bloody hell John. Watford !!! 😀
What the hell is he doing here ?
Does he know that there is a march in Manchester to protest about the privatising of the English NHS. ??
A lot closer to Watford than Scotland
And he might put some use to his comments. Unless he disny give a hoot. he just likes it here.
😀
P he looks like a school teacher. ( No offence to teachers everywhere… just saying )
JGedd
Now thats the way to answer someone.
I get too angry. It’s the frustration of repeating myself to MR P. And he IS a troll.
Note to self.. Stay CALM .
Thank you. I will try to follow your example 😉
Chief Librarian at The British School of Osteopathy
Studied at Uni. Sussex
Past: Oundle School
Lives in Wanstead, Redbridge, United Kingdom
From London, United Kingdom
LIKES · 88
Scotland in Union
United Against Separat…
Aaron Ramsey
England women’s nation…
Arsenal
UCU Campaigns
He just gives you a warm fuzzy feeling Ricky,
he just doesn’t want us to leave. 🙂
Bloody hell John K.
I can feel the lurv sure enough 😀 😀
Hi YESGUY.
For You (as well as Paula Rose, on a page far, far, away)…
link to youtube.com
[…] Reverend has an amazing article over on Wings talking about what he perceives to be the real reason New Labour fears the […]
I’m thinking along similar lines, but there’s even more at stake here than just Scotland if the SNP get anywhere near state secrets:
link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
To think, they could have avoided all this. Just let Scotland go, and they’d have a chance of survival. Sure, they’d lose a massive amount of revenue, but the system would be intact, and they could perpetuate whatever lies they liked.
But now they’re stuck with the Scots, and the SNP – and unlike New Labour or the Neoliberal Democrats, the SNP want something no amount of money or personal privilege can replace – and what Westminster will not give freely.
This really could be the most important election in the history of the United Kingdom.
“”I suspect it’s even more straightforward for most Labour MPs in Scotland – they’re terrified of having to find another job. Who would employ a useless turd like Brian Donohoe, for instance?””
I expect useless turds like Donohoe and Frank Roy et al will expect Labour MSPs to stand aside in the 2016 elections so they can get their noses in the trough,
A little dose of reality
1. Labour campaigned against independence for one reason, with which I am in sympathy. I’m somewhat embarrassed (though not ashamed, since it’s really not my falt) that a large number of English voters are, ultimately as a result of relentless propaganda, utter cnuts who would, if one of the left-supporting parts of the country were suddenly to secede, consign us to Conservative rule for the foreseeable future. Can you seriously blame Labour for wanting to keep Scots in the union under those circs? Even if you (rather hyperbolically) think they are all in it for themselves, nonetheless, opposing the Conservatives is a relatively good cause for them to have chosen to align their interests with.
2. The Scots voted for NuLab all through its history,just like all the other Labour voters who had nowhere else to go. They have no more right to whinge about being betrayed by Blair’s right turn than any other Labour voter. We all were. I responded by refusing to to vote Labout after 1992 – if more had done so, he would have had to stand down a lot sooner, ad the NuLab project could have gone into reverse ten years earlier, with much less damage having been done.
3. Miliband totally blindsided the establishment, who had anointed his brother as the heir to Blair and a continuation of a Neoliberal NuLab. The unions put him in, and he is distinctly not what the Bilderberg types wanted to see. He is turning the Labour party to the left. It is not easy after the Blair years, but he is making good progress. I’m getting behind that leftward movement, and I’ve re-joined the party and voted in the NEC elections (the Ken ticket – won). Blair, Mandelson Milburn and assorted NuLab Lords have all been openly briefing against him. He’s making moves toward – renationalisation of rail, reversal of privatisation in the NHS, increases in taxes on the rich, opposition to the ‘revolving door’, intervention in so-called ‘free markets’, a return to pre-2010 growth-targeting policies rather than bullshit austerity, etc etc. Not bad when he has to keep the ship afloat while rebuilding a genuine Labour party. He’s also, by the way, haemorrhaged funding as a consequence of speaking out in support of the Palestinians, and STOPPED a US invasion of Syria from opposition. So all the stuff about how NuLab was not socialist any more is true enoug but out of date (I won’t invite a shitstorm by making any comparisons beyond the SNP’s willingness to enter into a race to the bottom on corporation tax, for example).
4. This article’s basic argument is absurd: since I was reading critically rather than credulously, this leapt out at me. Let’s assume Labou has this secret agenda which it wold never dare to carry out without cover. If it forms a minority government, it has that cover. So that is good, right? Wrong! Because actually everyone will see through that cover. And Labour realises this fact, and fears it. Because it knows that it won’t be able to help acting as though it did have cover, and revealing its true dastardly nature, even though it knows that it won’t work. And that, apparently, is the real reason why Labour ‘fears’ the SNP.
5. Actually, I think link to wingsoverscotland.com is probably on the right lines – but of course Miliband has still to try to keep the Tories out – and that includes making sure we don’t end up with the Tories as largest party but dependent on SNP votes/abstentions to pass bills. What actually would the SNP do in that – quite likely – situation? Would it, like the Lib Dems, abandon its non-core leftish policies, try to do a deal on its core constitutional aims and thus fcuk over the working class of England and Wales? I certainly wouldn’t put it past them if they thought they could square their electorate somehow. And I think plenty on the Labour party share that doubt. Or would it trigger a second election which seems most likely to prompt marginals to go Conservative? Or would it try – if this is even an option – to enter into some kind of rainbow coalition with a Labour party that has fewer seats than the Conservatives, along with the Lib Dems and sundry others?
“who would, if one of the left-supporting parts of the country were suddenly to secede, consign us to Conservative rule for the foreseeable future. Can you seriously blame Labour for wanting to keep Scots in the union under those circs?”
The problem with that argument, T, is that it’s not so much “a dose of reality” as “a dose of bollocks”.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
There is NO permanent Conservative majority in the rUK without Scotland. Your whole post is based on a false premise.
You can argue about it, but that was why I hoped Scotland would stick with the rest of the working class (I didn’t campaign for it, having no standing and less influence!). And that was what the Labour party, rightly or wrongly, feared. Lab support for ‘No’ was not based on a desire to subjugate the Scots, union-jack waving, etc.
My post does not in fact rest on that premise in any case.
Have looked at the piece which seems to argue that the SNP’s projected gains from Labour should not be expected to give it the balance of power!
But the long historical excursus is pretty irrelevant to current conditions in England – Scots Lab votes stopped the Tories getting a majority in 2010 – which would have been even more disastrous (Syria, total dominance in most other areas), and came very close to letting Lab form a workable coalition. Things are even more evenly balanced now, and likely to remain so for – as I said, NB – the *foreseeable* future.
I really woud like to know what the SNP would do if they were put in the position of either supporting the Tories or triggering a new election. If (IF) Ashcroft polls are to be believed, that looks like a serious possibility at this point.