The price of truth
…is eternal vigilance, chums. Turn your back on Unionists and the media – for the sake of argument we’ll say that’s two things – for a second and they’ll start trying to slip lies out into the public consciousness, from which place they’re notoriously hard to dislodge. (Kim Jong-Un’s mythical Scottish restaurant is a recent case in point. It’s now a comedy staple, despite having been completely fabricated.)
So it’s always worth keeping a close eye on this site’s dear old pal, Labour candidacy hopeful and media favourite Duncan Hothersall, for an early sight of which falsehoods the party will be trying to propagate next.
Because otherwise you can miss – as we did at the time until an alert reader stumbled across it last night – stuff like this piece of audacious revisionism he wrote for the Scottish Fabian Society a couple of months ago:
Did they? Let’s do a quick fact check.
That chart is from the Lord Ashcroft poll done in the immediate aftermath of the vote, on a double-size sample of over 2000 voters. It shows that 37% of 2010 Labour voters voted Yes, as against 14% of 2010 SNP voters voting No. And as we know the exact number of votes cast in the 2010 general election, we can extrapolate the numbers.
Labour Yes votes: 383,145 (37% of 1,035,528)
SNP No votes: 68,794 (14% of 491,386)
(NB These are 2010 vote numbers. Indyref turnout was 74% higher.)
That’s over FIVE AND A HALF TIMES as many Labour Yes votes as SNP No ones. To claim there were more of the latter than the former is a truly stupendous feat of dishonesty. Now, that’s no more than we’ve come to expect from Duncan Hothersall, of course, but it’s an instructive example of what the No camp will try to get away with in dark corners when they think nobody’s watching.
.
[EDIT 1pm: Hothersall tweets angrily in response.
We’re nothing if not fair-minded, so we dug out the full tables from the Ashcroft poll (the graph above was Ashcroft’s own executive summary, not our choice), which do also include Holyrood 2011 figures on page 4:
Those give us figures of:
Labour Yes votes: 195,443 (31% of 630,461)
SNP No votes: 180,583 (20% of 902,915)
Which are certainly much closer, but Labour Yeses still plainly outnumber SNP Noes. And if we average the two sets of figures we get:
Labour Yes votes: 289,294
SNP No votes: 132,118
Which is comfortably more than 2:1. But of course, even that is to be overly generous – Hothersall’s point was specifically in regard to the internal unity of the two parties mentioned, so absolute numbers are irrelevant.
If you’re comparing how “divided” each party is, it’s the proportion of its voters who rebel against the party line you count, not the number. If a party only has 100 voters but every single one follows the line, that party is 0% divided. And in every case above, the SNP’s voters are far more loyal in that respect.
So in short, no, we won’t be apologising.]
You’re far too sharp for a Sunday morning Rev, but just as well someone is keeping an eye on the lies from labour.
I think such blatant falsehoods from prominent Unionists, of which this is only a minor example, will eventually come back to haunt them. For surely, I can’t help thinking, there is a limit to how much of this stuff they can get away with? If, in the near-ish future, they fail to maintain their precious union a second time it will be in large part because of their dirty tactics in the indyref and now. A new generation, better acquainted with the internet, will be much less likely to overlook such appalling dishonesty (I hope).
Ahhh, wee Dunc. I had a Twitter “dialogue” with him a few months ago in which he continually made suggestions that I was making statements, in the course of that same tweet stream, which I never actually made, nor did I even get close to the meaning he was asciribing to them. I remained pleasant towards him throughout. Moral high ground and all that 😉
Slippery customer at best; twisted, arrogant, wee Labour troll at next-to-nearly best.
“ascribing” – can we have the spell check switched on please Stu?
Truth is we’re more than 100% in bed with Labour’s £1.3 Trillion spending plan for 40% of all energy wasted http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/climatechange/11171445/Ed-Miliband-and-Baroness-Worthington-the-most-expensive-man-and-woman-in-Britains-history.html
$90 Trillion on a global scale http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/08/world/christiana-figueres-environmental-game-changers but for who http://www.epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=415b9cde-e664-4628-8fb5-ae3951197d03
Even if Duncan is using the Holyrood 2011 numbers it still equates to 126,408 SNP voters to 233,270 Labour voters. However as many Labour voters voted SNP in 2011 it could be argued that some of the SNP voters voting No in amongst the 126,408 were former Labour voters for whom full independence was a step too far, unless Duncan is ceding these voters to us and doesn;t expect them to come back
Either way, considerably more Labour voters crossed the line than SNP ones and Labour should be worried. However, I would settle for complacent 🙂
Maybe he meant voters from the Euro election…
Your recognition of Hothersall only serves to provide him with a false sense of stupidity.
Which is unfair.
He’s much,much dumber than that.
Oh dear.
It lends a whole new meaning to Hot Pants.
And here’s another one Stu
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/murphy-accused-of-spin-over-new-clause-four.26263123
Sorry can’t archive this-comes up as paywalled when I do.
His clause 4 was caused by his asking SEC to renumber clauses. Lying turd!
The Poll also showed 25% of NO’s changed their vote on the VOW promise of full fiscal autonomy. Scotland has been waiting since 1979. Do not be fooled again. Vote SNP/Alliance.
Cut Trident/HS2 the deficit is cut.
We’ll take your points on the slithery Duncan Hothersall as a given, but thanks to this post I had a look at the Ashcroft poll, and this question stands out :
Asking NO voters the most important reason for voting NO, 25% said: ??”A NO vote would still mean extra powers for the Scottish Parliament together with the security of remaining part of the UK, giving the best of both worlds”
Just a reminder, in black, white and red, what a duplicitous lot they are (Westminster, the MSM and the poor labour souls who are doing their masters’ bidding without thinking). Just keep talking to all the No voters you know folks, and point out the facts.
What Ken500 says
O/T BBC says Nick Robinson was not biased, just that he and the editors made mistakes…..
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2015/01/17/bbc-claims-incorrect-salmond-report-not-intentional/
Like Marr saying that the Greens are the third largest party (no harm tio the Greens like, glad to see them doing well)
Half the lies the BBC tell aren’t even true.
Even taken against 2011 Scottish election, 902,915 SNP votes, 14% of that is 126,408 against 37% of Labour’s vote (630,461) is 233,271, so still almost twice as many Labour Yes’s.
I met a No voter the other day.
Nothing sensible did he say.
He uttered nonsense again today.
I ignore them when they get that way.
His head was filled with a swarm of falsehoods he had assimilated as truthful facts. Despite all of the leading lights in the No campaign admitting Scotland could be a successful nation state again, he disregarded that universal truth, held tight to his garbage ‘facts,’ and voted No.
But what struck me most of all was, his head was filled with the most acrid loathing for anybody who dared to question what right England has to govern Scotland.
Always remember folks, the MSM operates on what you might call: “The Liberty Valance Principle” – if the truth disproves the legend – print the legend.
If the Red and Blue Tories can persuade enough of the MSM, and it shouldn’t be too-hard, that “more SNP voters voted No than Labour voters voted Yes”, it will become gospel.
I had a conversation with a departmental editor on one of Scotland’s daily newspapers last week, during which he was complaining, so severe have been the job cuts, he no longer has enough bodies to produce what has long been the number of specialist pages for which he is responsible.
Extrapolate this across the board – sport, news, business, comment, features etc – and it is obvious, stories and opinions will not be properly checked, lies and inaccuracies will increase, and the Unionists, as we all know, are very good at getting lies printed.
Well uncovered! “eternal vigilance” … indeed!
Once upon a time it was just spin … putting a positive glow on the good bits, hide the bad info. And, a few discrete lies thrown in, usually deniable … “I just made a mistake”, stuff when found out.
NOW! Astonishing levels of misinformation with no basis and downright lies.
I can’t get my head round how much of it is grand plan to swamp the Scottish population with vast numbers of negative propositions so truth and reality are lost. Or, how much of it is just lashing out erratically in blind panic, making wild claims made up as they go along.
You are right about the danger of anti_scottish myths taking hold. A similar myth is that more Scots fought on the Hanoverian than the Jacobite side at Culloden. In truth, that was over three to one the other way too. There was an excellent analysis of the ordinary Jacobites and their primarily nationalist motivation published a few years ago. I think the book is called The Bare-Assed Banditti. Strongly recommended.
One minor point. Your figure is based on 37% of those who voted Labour in 2010. If you defined “labour voters” as those currently supporting labour, you would have to have that figure 🙂
I admire Duncan Hothersall as I could never write the fantasy fiction he churns out. However, I’m not sure that voters are looking for this genre in deciding the government of Scotland.
To be brutally candid, I cannot fathom why anybody would want to join a political party that had as a core policy independence regained for Scotland, and when given the chance to secure it, vote against it.
No matter what argument is presented to me in their favour, I know such people to be fools.
Folks, one person, one vote.
Step forward and be counted.
Scotland will never give up.
One irreversible step forward at a time. No matter what rubbish we have to listen to.
(On a lighter note, how disheartening, but sad, for the other side to have nothing but desperate drivel and nonsense to cling to from their leaders. oh dear dear.)
From what I’ve seen of Mr Hothersall over the past couple of years, I’d require an independent monitor and fact check if he told me the grass was green and the sky was blue.
Not the most honest of individuals, but then he IS the political type.
I believe it is more likely that SNP supporters who voted NO will come back to the SNP for the GE than Labour voters who voted YES going back to Labour.
Great article. I decided before the Referendum NOT to listen to Radio Scotland or watch BBC Scotland or BBC news. I’ve changed my mind. I now avidly watch them all and note the high amount of lying and distortion from the media in the run up to the G.E.
At least we can do something about voicing our opinions on the 15th March at the BBC Demo starting at George Square.
I see Dunc. has been tweeting you! At least it shows that he reads Wings! Haha!
The media, the establishment and just about anyone else who was tied to the higher echelons of the entire ‘No’ campaign, seem determined to create as much division across the Scottish political spectrum, and they don’t seem to care if their own side get it wrong when trying to pass on the ‘facts’. The more confusion. The more division. The better for the ‘No’ side over what they did in the lead up to the referendum.
I’ve seen it in people who were (and are) hardcore ‘No’s, and who refuse to even acknowledge that Gordon Brown even mentioned ‘near-federalism’. Others state that The Record never even mentioned ‘The Vow’, or that it was taken out of context. The point is that if you mention these things to a ‘No’ supporter, then the general hardcore ones usually foam at the mouth, eyes bulging and bitterly argue that federalism or vow were never mentioned. Have had it umpteen times on Facebook. I’ve even had folk trying to re-write Cameron’s speech on ‘broad-shoulders’ when he visited the rigs last February and that the ‘broad-shoulders of the UK’ did not mean that the Union could endure any financial calamities, nor would the oil industry suffer. Even when I give them the link, they just don’t seem to see the line where he says it, and instead, try to say that the ‘broad-shoulders’ mean a burden shared (which is complete and total utter mince! We know exactly what Cameron meant when he said, so did he, as did everyone!).
I guess the idea is that if there is so much confusion over who said what (or not), then this will muddy the waters of the ‘Yes’ argument whenever they raise a hand to point out a mistake by the Media or Government.
Be prepared during the run-up to the election of denials such as ‘what vow?’ and ‘What! Brown said what about federalism?!?’
Well spotted. Another rather nasty example of unionist spivs and hucksters on their way out.
https://archive.today/oZbUJ Graun baiting its neo con readership of a Sunday morn. No comments which must be driving their Hothersozzle style red tory readership nuts:D
HandandShrimp says:
Even if Duncan is using the Holyrood 2011 numbers it still equates to 126,408 SNP voters to 233,270 Labour voters.
That’s not the figures I get. Ashcroft’s figures say that 20% of SNP Holyrood constituency voters voted No and 31% of the corresponding Labour vote went for Yes. This gives:
SNP Noes: 902,915 x 20% = 180,583
Labour Yeses: 630,461 x 31% = 195,443
However if Hotherall used the regional figures and apply those percentages then he would have come up with a higher SNP figure by about 175k to 162k. But the Ashcroft tables make it quite clear that it’s the constituency vote that was asked (see page 33 of the tables) and it’s to those targets that the tables would presumably have been weighted. So Hotherall may just have been incompetent rather than dishonest on this occasion.
To be fair to Stu, Ashcroft’s report doesn’t analyse by 2011 figures, you have to go to the tables for those. (But on the other hand Stu’s always the one whose insisting that 2011 not 2010 should be used for weighting).
Of course if Hotherall was thinking of 2011 rather than 2010, then he’s presumably doing it to draw attention to the SNP’s overwhelming victory in those elections and perhaps suggest that the only way to defeat the Tories in Scotland is to vote SNP.
I think it safe to assume, upon reading, listening or viewing, anything claimed by any Unionist or Establishment source to be a lie unless at least two different cites to sources of confirmation back it up.
Just seen Jackie Baillie on BBC 1 Scotland on my mates TV. I never believe a word that woman says. Remember this is the, for lack of a better description, woman who claimed the SNP ruled over the, “Hospital Acquired Infections Capital of Europe”, but quoted figures from when Labour were in office as her proof. The same woman who backed up Johann Lamont’s false claim about a rape case that never happened.
None of which has been apologised for or admitted to by that pair of lying numpties.
On the subject of truth again, read & watch this about recent event in Paris!
http://www.activistpost.com/2015/01/sky-news-reporter-makes-freudian-slip.html
The ability to project falsehoods and Labour candidacy ….the former a default prerequisite for the latter I imagine .
I was wondering who currently had the BBC calculator now we know thanks Stu. I think he has had it for long enough now time for him to pass it on. 😛
Duncan lied AGAIN!
The real shock would be a Labour politician being honest. They cannot help but lie. Lying has served them well for many, many years. They have gained and retained power while building careers through being effective at spin ( political lying). New Labour was the peak and the dead of Iraq the legacy of that skill.
I feel sorry for Labour in Scotland, no don’t laugh 😉 , I really do. I mean they are a party that appears to be utterly devoid of any ideas of their own. Just as well then that they do not go and try creating anything snazzy on Twitter like, say, #myfuturescotland. 😀
looking at the referendum YES/NO results breakdown
first I’ve seen them, no wonder Unionists are in a panic
age 54 & under YES
the pension scare worked
Wee duncy blocked me back in Sept – I hope you’re all calling him on the lies and shite he spews out on this twitter feed.
Duncan has the usual Labour ability of talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time and making it look like he’s talking out his erse.
A pedant of the highest order when it comes to the English language who will only make a statement that has more than a single meaning.
Labour in Scotland really do seem to have a fundamental zeal for not wishing to attract any new voters (other than from certain right wing movements, or unionist background).
Rather than take enjoyment from Scottish worker redundancies, speculating how former Labour members/voters voted in the independence referendum, or justifying how Tory austerity economics drive their overall policy why don’t they set out clear steps towards a Federal Scotland?
Why do they continue to think that they can get away with doing the opposite of what little they actually say?
Does this mean Hothersall is the Jacqui Baillie of the twittersphere or is it the other way round?
Roger
Fair enough I hadn’t realised that there was a different percentage to apply to the Constituency vote numbers.
However, the basic analysis is correct. More Labour voters from a much smaller base moved over to Yes than SNP voters moved to No.
I think what I said about those who voted for the SNP in 2011 is correct. There are a fair number who can see that the SNP are the most competent party to fight for Scotland but are not necessarily yet convinced about full independence.
I think pitching the 2015 election on Home Rule as promised by Broon is the right thing to do. It clearly chimes with the majority in Scotland and is clearly what Labour are explicitly not offering.
Hothersall is, of course, simply trying to demonstrate he’s ideal Labour candidate material.
The prime (only?) requisite of any Labour candidate is the ability to tell a blatant lie with absolute conviction.
Article updated.
I have seen Mr Hothersall’s ramblings in newspaper comments in the past and have studiously avoided him ever since.
I don’t mind having discussions on any topic with people who have a different opinion but I usually only do so with those with an open mind and a genuine desire to understand. This is not the case with this man; he is so myopic & filled with self-importance that he would lie to your face and not blink an eye. In fairness, he seems to be one of those that thinks that if they can convince themselves first that the lie is the truth they can defend it with a passion.
Avoid at all costs. Thanks Stu for dealing with these kind of peple on our behalf. I don’t know how you do it and maintain your sanity.
Am I missing something here?
Assuming that “SNP” refers to voters who support the SNP (not necessarilly members), then why are there any No Votes?
By pointing to the 2011 numbers Hothersall is just emphasising Labour’s decline in support.
It will become easier to make this sort of claim the bigger SNP support gets. For example, whatever SNP supporters vote YES or NO to has quite a good chance to be larger than what UKIP voters vote YES or NO to because there are simply many more SNP voters. Even a small number of them can outnumber voters from another party.
So maybe Duncan is just a little ahead of his time.
Duncan Hothersall seems to be making it perfectly clear that Labour do not want any Yes voters to vote for them in the GE 2015.
He seems to be seeking to create and glorify some kind of 100% pure Unionist movement. It appears that he does not want to make the ‘Labour Yeses’ any bigger.
I’m glad the “Yes alliance” parties are open to new members regardless of how they voted in the referendum.
I wonder if SLAB will claim Murphy has reduced the gap on the SNP to 13% as his success.Personally if the vote ends up that way I will be delighted. But 4 months out I reckon there is still plenty of time for Murphy and SLAB to piss the Scots off big time. Eventually Murphy will become a liability like Lamont.
O/T
BAE have been given more than £300m to build new facilities in Barrow in Furness in order to construct the new Vangaurd nuclear submarines (which will carry the Trident replacement).
A lot of money for something which hasn’t been given the official go ahead yet.
http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_175809/demolition-begins-to-transform-submarine-building?_afrLoop=32473019878000&_afrWindowMode=0&_afrWindowId=null
From Kezia Dugdales’ s open letter to Women for Independence,”I’ve sat with a GPs prescribing methodone scripts to people on DTTO orders”.
Now that is a clear breach of doctor-patient confidentiality. It is unethical.
Good update, it does not change the fact that there are more Labour Yes voters than No SNP voters. You can have differing opinions but not different facts.
Duncan Horsesarse?
O/T
Foodbank opening appears to be a joyful occasion for Jim Murphy. Picture says it all about the labour party.
https://twitter.com/MrMalky/status/556615261357629441/photo/1
this mans level of smugness shows he was surely bullied at school
Does not matter how many SNP voted NO (still cannot get my head round that scenario) – Branch Office will match it and add 1000
@Nana Smith
Shocking. One wonders what ‘quip’ he just made.
SAid it before get in the ring you two and duke it out
Some suggestions
“No eggs I hope.”
“If I’d known the tape colour I’d have borrowed a matching tie.”
@FINNMACOLLIE
Best of that ilk so far methinks.
Marcia says:
” You can have differing opinions but not different facts. ”
In North British Labour circles, that is a matter of opinion 😉
@ Gillie,
It is illegal, as it’s a clear breach of confidentiality legislation.
To be fair though, there are thousands of yes voting ex Labour voters who aren’t labour voters any more since the indiref so he may well be perfectly correct. Duncan may be admitting there that they have far less voters left.
It’s a daft thing for him to higlight and he might as well have just said that all yes voters have now deserted them.
Hmm … so that very nice chappie Mr. whatsisname wants Stu to apologise for … erm … being CORRECT! 😉 WOW! I wonder what he would want to Stu to do if Stu had been WRONG! 😛
Duncan Hothersall
Dung-can Hate-us-all
@ a2
By that bizarre definition, 100% of ‘true’ Labour voters would be No voters. Even someone so disingenuous as to be exulted to the position of favoured MSM ‘expert’ couldn’t possibly be that misleading, or could they?
gillie says:
From Kezia Dugdales’ s open letter to Women for Independence,”I’ve sat with a GPs prescribing methodone scripts to people on DTTO orders”.
Now that is a clear breach of doctor-patient confidentiality. It is unethical.
That MUST be ILLEGAL surely to gawd Gillie. If it is, as I am pretty well certain it is, then this *ahem* individual MUST be charged for her illegal actions!
Just seen, in some else’s newspaper that Uriah Heep Smurphy
is now writing to promote a Knight Hood for the great Rangers FC
captain John Greig.
He support the Jewish cause in Palestine, in hope of their votes.
He has his haloed pictures plastered across the media, and
a grovelling snap of him with Pope to stroke the Catholic voters,
and today a wee pitch for Sir John to capture the Proddy Voters.
Could I ask any Sikh supporters to look out for a Sniveling Toady
“Politician” wearing a Red Tory Turban? Lock up the Temple Doors!
If you cannot see through this sycophantic snake you should ask the matron to fasten the buckles on you restrainers.
Perhaps Hothersall was trying to impress John McTernan with a self-righteous demand for an apology? I’m sure Hothersall’s next tweet will be filled with the necessary expletives.
From Kezia Dugdales’ s open letter to Women for Independence,”I’ve sat with a GPs prescribing methodone scripts to people on DTTO orders”.
Now that is a clear breach of doctor-patient confidentiality. It is unethical.
Ruth Davidson admitted seeing opened postal votes before the referendum.
Treasury confirms RSB brass plaque to be relocated to London
before informing the Stock Market.
Purdah is broken just a couple of days before the referendum.
No action has been taken by anyone against these illegal acts.
The Law for incidents relating to Scottish Independence is
Heads they win, Tails Scotland loses.
Its interesting to see that Hotherwhatisname hasn’t got the decency to even say he was wrong today. I’d take that sort of hands up, yes I screwed up so sorry, but not a chance in their right to reign over their Scotland region at stake. The end of Slab, with a whimper etc…
As regards Dippity Dugs claim on being present during the prescribing of medication, if she gained patient permissions by whatever means it would possibly be allowed, although ethically i can’t invisage it being easy to find a Doctor willing to lend himself to an obvious Political stunt such as this, but then again most people at some time can be bought by something, so if this claim is genuine what was the price the DUG paid and to whom?…Doctor or Patient? or Both?
If we are to assume it’s not the usual outright Big Fat Lie, what depths are these Odious Labour Polititions not prepared to plumb
Of course we could Google it, couldn’t we Dippity?
Yup hothersall is trying to impress mcturnip, perhaps we will see him as a ppc very soon,
Murphy leaps on Women for Indy campaign, hits the wrong tone, just looks even creepier, another mess for vote Slab Murphy May 2015. Almost makes Hothersall look quite sad really.
https://archive.today/2WwOk
There Is an Urgent Need To Introduce an Independent BBC Authority To Investigate & Decide The Outcome Of Level 2 Complaints The BBC Should Not Be Investigating Themselves
Channel 4’s director of creative diversity, Stuart Cosgrove, has slammed the lack of journalistic scrutiny of Scottish independence referendum ‘scare headlines’ and called for a re-think at the BBC on the nature of balance and due impartiality.
Speaking on BBC Radio Scotland, Cosgrove said misreporting over claims the Royal Bank of Scotland would move jobs to England in the event of a Yes vote had been shown to be lacking substance and scrutiny after RBS issued a clarification to the media confirming any move would be relevant to “operations, not people”.
He told BBC presenter John Beattie: “I think elsewhere in the media and elsewhere within this organisation, the last 24 hours have allowed people to assume that this is about job losses in Scotland and the loss of great, significant investment.
“It’s clearly now is not, and yet another story when investigated the day after is proved to not have anything like the substance [it seemed].”
“The lack of scrutiny of this and the idea that people just wanted scare headlines I think is an outrage, particularly at this stage in the referendum when there’s so much to talk about and where journalism should be coming alive.
Much more here:
http://caltonjock.com/2015/01/18/there-is-an-urgent-need-to-introduce-an-independent-bbc-authority-to-investigate-decide-the-outcome-of-level-2-complaints-the-bbc-should-not-be-investigating-themselves/
The Smurph just might get away with the knighthood for John Greig scam, if he also suggests one for Billy McNeill; after all, regardless of the argument as to whether or not the Rangers Tribute Act is continuing Rangers, when it comes to “The Old Firm” you have to work on the principle of a joint entity.
Maybe he should have gone for knighthoods for Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish, less possibility of dissent.
I was lulled into a false sense of security thinking that Jim “I was born in a drawer” Murphy was going to stick to winning the Glasgow man over, and leaving women out of his campaigning after the pitiful BT Patronising Lady disaster.
Todays article in the Guardian espousing his thoughts on women’s prisons really is galling. “I am delighted that our approach has found support across the political spectrum. That the policy has the support of WFI.” The two pronged approach with Kezia and her open letter today, how sad she is that they (WFI) have rejected her and Jim’s support. I really enjoyed Kate Higgins blog clearly not asking for Jim Murphys support.
oh well Kezia can try, McTernan, McDougal Uk Labour buzy bees.
Enjoying Wings and all the contributors.
And another reminder about how Scotland was lied to & is still being lied to. Undoubtably, the biggest lie of all
https://archive.today/t1B5p
The only logical answer is that he was referring to the number of voters anticipated to vote SNP or Labour in the UPCOMING election.
O/T but nice to see Nicola Sturgeon finally run out of patience with Dugdale and ripping her a new one at FMQs!
O/T but Jim strikes again. Needless to say WFI mad as he claims their campaign as his own. Yet another lie. Oh, not off topic after all 🙂
https://archive.today/T32lN
heedtracker
Thanks for posting that article. Kezia must feel silly offering support to Women for Indy on the issue of the new prison when it was Jim’s idea all along!
(Adopts concerned and indignant tone) “Maybe it’s time for Nicola Sturgeon to stop political point scoring and get behind the labour party on [insert issue here]”
Those 2 need to get their stories straight before Jim takes the credit for any other new policies.
My prediction for next week:
A) Jim Murphy votes for renewal of trident
B) Jim announces scottish branch of labour’s new pro nuclear disarmament stance
C) Nicola Sturgeon slaughters labour for their nuclear weapons fetish and hypocrisy
D) Kezia Dugdale responds saying something concerned about the NHS
E) The Scottish press and BBC Scotland reports B and D and nauseum.
… AD nauseum. Though ‘and nauseum’ probably works in this case also.
Sorry for O/T but there is now a tweet storm in progress to contact M.P.’s regarding the upcoming vote on Trident renewal on Tuesday.
https://twitter.com/The45Storm/status/556832801065295872/photo/1
Seems that nothing ever changes in UK politics
https://archive.today/nhYAs
EVERYTHING they say is a lie. Maybe I’m naive but I was shocked to discover this.
Flicking through the channels my interest was taken by the use of the word “haggis” being discussed in the lords regarding what steps are being taken to persuade the US to lift its ban on the import of Haggis.
Lord Winston, Labour suggested to great hilarity that “if indeed it does deal with obesity, wouldn’t it be better to promote it in Glasgow”
Next up on his feet, lord Forsyth of Drumleen, (Michael Forsyth), Tory “My lords given the seriousness of this matter shouldn’t the Government not consider appointing a special envoy of energy and imagination to go to the US and stay there until this matter is resolved” he then went on to suggest Alex Salmond as the envoy because he is “currently looking for a job”
I thought jim Wallace was going to pass out laughing. I wish he had !!
Please please get rid of this lot.
Really really annoyed at this complete disrespect for Scotland.
@Lollysmum
What a great speech. It would seem that even back in 2005 Alex Salmond knew the agenda of the BBC.
@Tam Jardine, as ever the CiF is both interesting and usual red and blue Tory creeps replies, depending on how hard you want Scotland to be run by England. Its not hard to picture Murphy and dudes like McTernan or Bliar MacBloater trying to work out how to make Murphy nice and voteable. Some good might come of it maybe, as a hard core red Tory trougher tries defraud Scotland into how much of a lefty he actually is, oh and non unionist too, the gits.
WomenForIndy
18 January 2015 4:00pm
Recommend
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We suspect a little politicking from Jim Murphy here. Women for Independence certainly have not thrown our weight behind his campaign; we rather thought it was the other way round, given that we launched the petition and that organisations like us and the Howard League were the first to raise the concerns.
We were not aware that Jim Murphy considered this an important issue prior to us launching and publicising our campaign.
“Bit queer that the Guardian would rather hear from someone who discovered this issue 5 days ago, rather than the people who have been campaigning on it for a few months now, don’t you think?
Anyway, here’s Carolyn Leckie of Women for Independence’s piece from the National, and here’s the petition that Women for Independence set up.
@Lollysmum
Excellent find. How little things have changed in some ways.
Reminds me of reading “The Claim of Scotland” by H.J Paton (easily found by searching this site)
O/T -NS & Chilcot
http://www.channel4.com/news/nicola-sturgeon-scotland-chilcot-inquiry-iraq-report-video
heedtracker
Yeah – I read that and laughed.
Something I find sad yet heartening for the future – if women for Indy had been going for a couple of years longer I expect we would have won.
I can see why they are so pissed at Jim hijacking – reminds me of Brown and that petition.
Seems like they are going from strength to strength. If I wasn’t anatomically wrong I would join them in a heartbeat.
@Rev
Duncan Hothersall is to be thanked for his efforts on behalf of the SNP General Election campaign. One of the potential problems for the SNP in May is that they could be too closely associated with YES and Independence in the eyes, not only of the many Labour voters who are fed up with Labour’s current performance, but even those 14% of SNP voters who voted NO.
Duncan is doing a good job of helping the SNP consolidate the public image that the SNP isn’t just a one-trick party, but one genuinely figting for Scotland. Thanks, Dunc.
I think most of the Scots who had their eyes open to how the media and spin works during the indyref are now more aware. The spin merchants have made their own efforts less effective than ever as voters will ask questions more.
On the other hand,as a result of the NO vote,the pro union ‘main’ uk parties think that it is now possible to blag and waffle their way through the general election campaign without actually answering questions and or explaining their policies,after all,it worked for them during the referendum.
@ Lollysmum, 5.49pm
Thanks for the link. So, that’s what Alex Salmond was saying about ten years ago. Blair and Brown might be gone from the formal UK government but Westminster is ever the same.
What HAS changed in ten years is Scottish politics and Scotland. What SNP government in Holyrood has given Scotland is new hope and self-confidence. Not quite enough on 18.9.2014 but the genie will not go back into the bottle, the toothpaste back into the tube, or Scots back into their box.
No wonder the referendum winners act like panicked losers. They’re staring the end in the face.
The BBC, MSM and manic lying twitter lackeys like Duncan H might be able to save SLAB’s arse (and the union) one more time in the UK GE this year but it’s becoming increasingly difficult.
Is Dunky standing in a safe seat – giggle.
Lumilumi
Yes, the scales are falling away from Scots eyes. YES won the online & social media campaigns in the referendum so will bring that into play again for GE15. WM denied YES a media & broadcast platform then & are doing the same now.
WM have to win this time round, they have an older voter demographic than SNP so LIB/LAB/CONS will have greater natural loss of voters due to old age.
BBC & STV are now blocking SNP access to TV news agenda & setting up SNP for ambush in any interviews they do manage to secure. Dishonesty knows no bounds with BBC
O/T Scottish Statesman site down/account suspended…?
Now on view on iplayer , today’s The Andrew Marr Show on BBC 1- you will be told by AM at approx. 2 minutes in , and at 19.40 minutes in , that the Greens are the third most popular party for paid up members in the country/UK !
I have made a formal complaint .
We here on WoS might ridicule Jim Murphy, Willie Rennie, the odious Jackie Baillie, Duncan H or whoever for their cack-handed numptiness and lies – and some comic relief is always welcome – but in reality these people are very dangerous.
They’re dangerous because the BBC and MSM give them unfettered access, don’t challenge them on anything, give them them an easy ride. While totally sidelining the SNP, the governing party of Scotland and the third largest party in the whole of the UK.
Many here have bemoaned why the SNP don’t do/say this or that in the press, issue press releases, give speeches, etc.
The fact is that the SNP do! The BBC/MSM just do not report it. It seems all SLAB press releases are reported, almost verbatim, but almost none of the dozens put out by the SNP. There’s an omerta against the SNP in the BBC/MSM in the Scottish and wider UK media.
Leaders’ debates before the UK GE is a case in point. The unionist establishment DO NOT want to include the SNP in any debates, despite the fact that by membership the SNP is the third largest in the whole UK, polling very high in Scotland and just might have some sort of “balance of power” role in the next UK Parliament. For the last reason alone, the rest of the UK deserve to hear what the SNP have to say because it might affect them, not just the remote, rebellious Scots. But the establishment party ConLibLab don’t want voters in the rUK to get any ideas.
That said, I’m not too optimistic about the SNP’s chances at the GE. Present polling predicts 40-50 seats but the SNP will be lucky to get 20. Dinosaur Brown will be wheeled out at the last moment and many Scottish voters will be duped once again. Such is the nature of the antiquated, undemocratic FPTP system.
I’ll absolve the horrible FPTP system this once if the SNP get over the “tipping point” and SLAB seats start falling to the SNP in their droves, though. 😉
I seem to have been distracted by GE thoughts. What I meant to say is that the UK, the Scottish MSM in particular, is a travesty and a danger to democracy.
The Finnish MSM isn’t perfect either but it’s a lot more pluralistic. In a country with only 5.6M people and with a strange language nobody else speaks, fancy that. It’s not supposed to be possible.
Sorry to go on about the MSM… The UK one isn’t all that.
Reporters without Borders produces a World Press Freedom Index every year. Their real beef is with repressive governments, cencorship and persecution – even execution – of journalists, so against that background, the UK isn’t doing too bad at 33 (dropped 4 places since last year, though).
The top 10 is the usual suspects: all the Nordic countries, New Zealand and western European mini-states. The UK’s main problem is concentrated media ownership and overly cozy relationships between the press, political power and corporate interests.
http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php
(When you look at the map you might understand why Finns are generally weary and wary of our eastern neighbour – I know a lot of Wossers praise RT but it’s just propaganda albeit from a different perspective from the BBC.)
@lumilumi
“That said, I’m not too optimistic about the SNP’s chances at the GE. Present polling predicts 40-50 seats but the SNP will be lucky to get 20.”
Your post was a great read but I think the SNP will win as a minimum 20 seats and are likely to get around 30. There are just over 15 weeks left and I don’t see Labour making too much inroads in the remaining time.
It might just be mainly wishful thinking on my part but 30 to 35 would seem absolutely possible based on current polling and the general feeling of at least 1/3 of Ex-Labour supporters who believe they were betrayed.
Bringing in Jim Murphy as leader is unlikely to bring them back, more likely alienate them further. The majority of them, like me will vote SNP in the GE. I’m convinced of that.
“The UK’s main problem is concentrated media ownership and overly cozy relationships between the press, political power and corporate interests.”
You got that right. Look who’s CEO of BBC news, Marcus Agius, married Rothschild money, filthy rich, passionate about stuff, gardening, counting Rothschild mullah
https://archive.today/Mypnc
Its a red and blue Tory boy world, although a long way from an idiotic blowoff like poor old Hothersall, and Marcus probably doesn’t tweet much.
Oh look BBC’s very own political editor Nick Robertson isn’t in fact a lying coman either, its all a “nat slur” you see.
https://archive.today/h5rQa
@craig murray says: 18 January, 2015 at 11:48 am:
“You are right about the danger of anti_scottish myths taking hold.”
Fact is, Craig, that the entire History, and even much of the Geography, as taught in the entire British archipelago has always been utter spun hogwash. The stories simply do not fit the facts.
Here is the potted version of the facts : – in around 54/55BC the Romans came to the British Isles. They came for minerals and slaves and their methods of working was to operate a customs and excise system. Both imports and exports were taxed and ports, such as Londinium, were tax gathering places.
British History always implies that the Romans ruled all Britain but truth is they did not. Hadrian’s wall was to prevent smuggling – not a defence against the northern British tribes. The Romans were the first elite rulers of south Britain and they treated Britain as different countries. Albion was south Britain, Caledonia, was North Britain, Wales was Cambria and Ireland Hibernia.
After the Romans the system of governance has hardly changed as what followed has always been a ruling elite who treated the population as their slaves. We still have the titles and aristocracy today with the Establishment in Westminster also becoming an elite that is treating the population as their servants. The House Of Lords is now the largest, (in numbers), legislative body in the World.
@ Handclapping
It’s not permitted to mention Jackie Ballie and “sphere” in the same sentence…
@lumilumi
A Channel 4 item broadcast on Friday about the NHS A&E waiting times perfectly illustrates the points you have been making. The item was a report about the “NHS across the UK” and looked at the situation in NHS England, NHS Wales, NHS NI and…no NHS Scotland was not mentioned. No explanation was given for the omission and no mention that Scotland had done better than the rest. Could it be that they just could not bring themselves to mention anything that might reflect well on the SNP led Scottish Government? It certainly could not have been because health is devolved. It is also devolved in Wales where Labour is in office and the results are among the worst.
Sick of this shite. We need a Nat ‘General Patton’ type character.
I view 40 to 45 seats as an upper limit. I think 30 is possible and if the SNP did get 30 seats it would be seismic shift in Scottish politics.
The press will play a part I guess but whereas Yes had one Sunday paper for a few weeks I think the split in support for the various candidates will make for a more pluralistic campaign. The Mail and Express really have it in for Miliband and others detest Cameron. It will be messy.
The Guardian seems to support Jim but they also appear to be changing their format The horrible beta version looks like becoming permanent.
@Macandroid.
Sphere? Cube surely!
O/T – distraction
don’t know how many people this affects in scotland or indeed if there is any truth to this rumour.
If not it’s more scare-mongering.
If it’s likely to happen, it’s worrying
From Mark Pack, a Lib-Dem commentator
“Although Irish and Commonwealth citizens who live in the UK can vote in general elections senior Tories called for an emergency change in the law last night as official figures revealed the scale of foreigners who will be free to cast a vote in May”.
345,000 Irish
306,000 Indians
180,000 Pakistani
73,000 Australians
52,000 Zimbabweans
Other countries in the top ten are Nigeria, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Canada and Bangladesh.
“It would be outrageous if overseas nationals were able to decide the outcome.”
http://www.markpack.org.uk/113663/liam-fox-wants-kick-half-million-indians-pakistanis-off-electoral-register/
The Link below will show you exactly how the Red and Blue Tory brigade are running the NHS.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/caroline-molloy/hinchingbrooke-why-did-england‘s-privatised-hospital-deal-really-collapse
Jacqui Bailey on TV to say the Reduction in Stamp Duty, announced
earlier this year by John Swinney, has now been undercut by a recent Tory Party proposal.
This apparently shows how SNP and Tory are working together???
Of course there wasn’t a journalist there to enquire what was wrong with initiating new stamp duty tariffs that would help the vast majority of buyer here is Scotland.
The Blob seems to have missed the multiple announcements by SNP that they would NEVER work with the Tories. She also seems to have forgotten her Labour team couldn’t do enough when doing the Tories dirty work here in Scotland.
Where did she get that weird accent? She sounds like a 3rd rate actor doing a Southern Plantation Manager?
@heedtracker. We live in a world where taxpayer funded supposedly neutral BBC has Marcus Agius advising on its executive, a man who is also a trustee of the secretive Bilderberg Group. Old boys network well and truly with us.
@lumilumi
New Survation poll just out puts SNP on 46% and Labour on 26%. Anywhere near that on election day means game over.
From a 10% lead in yesterday’s poll to a 20% lead today just shows that it’s not only oil that is volatile.
They can’t both be right but fingers crossed for todays 🙂
@Nana Smith says: 18 January, 2015 at 2:44 pm:
“Foodbank opening appears to be a joyful occasion for Jim Murphy. Picture says it all about the labour party.
Tell you a wee true story from way back in the 1970s when a Labour Government was in power and no such things as food banks had been invented, (Just the occasional strike time soup kitchen). My late second wife couldn’t abide to see children suffering in poverty having suffered much herself as a child. So I regularly came home from work to find a wee strange face sat at our evening meal table.
So one evening a wee, rather ragged, laddie sat across the table from me and he was laying his lugs around his second course, a rather tasty stew and three veg, accompanied by a thick slice of wholemeal bread. He was far too busy to talk so said not a word.
The plate was left absolutely clean by use of that wedge of wholemeal and he sat back in his chair and said the immortal words, “By C’ist A’h ‘joid that”. I can still, after all this time, see his wee shilpit face with its great big grin as if it were yesterday.
From that Ashcroft poll: 42% of voters in 2010 voted Labour. Of these 63% voted no. Which means only 26% of people who voted in the 2010 election voted both Labour and then no in the referendum. Pretty much the core Labour vote today. No wonder they are so desperate to win the yes voters back, they won’t get above 26% without us.
LOLZ.
@Robert Peffers,
Lovely post.
For those interested in historical perception from about 12 years back, here is a spook handbook a (then user droup) group I was in produced:
*************************
DOs and DON’Ts for Unionists in Scotland
This crib-sheet of DOs and DON’Ts has been compiled as a quick reference for all true Unionists** operating in the field of anti-independence activities in Scotland. It is an extract of that which we regard as being the key actions from “The British Unionist’s Handbook” (with which you are probably more familiar).
1. DO point out how well the Scottish economy is doing under the Union.
2. DO claim Scotland cannot afford independence.
3. DON’T, however, make points 1 and 2 to the same individual(s) at the same time. (slight compatibility problem).
4. DO claim that North Sea oil is about to run out. It’s harder to sell the ‘oil isn’t worth much’ line since those troublesome ‘McCrone Report’ revelations under the Freedom of Information Act.
5. If you are influential in UK Government DO what you can to prevent Scottish companies and industries becoming a source of national pride. The less Scots feel able to prosper under independence the less they will be willing to vote for independence. It also will do no harm to infer that a London government may be capable of hurting a post-independent Scotland economically, but never state this baldly.
6. If you are influential in UK Government DO not baulk from limiting Scottish democratic rights if necessary. In particular DON’T ever allow a referendum on independence if you can possibly avoid it.
7. If you are influential in UK Government DO cut the budget to the Scottish Executive if it is an SNP one, so that not all of their commitments can be fulfilled. Work with the UK Treasury on this. Then claim targets not met are the SNP’s fault.
8. DO claim that the SNP would create an ‘Albanian style socialist republic’.
9. DO claim that the SNP are ‘Tartan Tories’.
10. DON’T, however, claim 8 and 9 at the same time and again, make sure of your audience’s political leanings first.
11. If you work in the media, DO portray SNP politicians in as bad a light as possible e.g. doing something trivial or seemingly carefree or arrogant. On the other hand, portray Unionist politicians as being serious and competent.
12. If you work in the media, DO report as often as possible anything which might help to lower Scots self-esteem. This is vital, if the electorate do not feel confident enough they will not vote for independence supporting parties. So lie if you have to.
13. If you work in the media, DON’T report poll results on straightforward independence, they frequently show a majority for it. If you must do so, make sure these are ‘buried’ as much as possible.
14. If you work in the media and are interviewing politicians, DO make sure you are more aggressive with the pro-independence interviewee. Cut him/her off if they seem to be making a good point, and change the subject. Ridicule their answers and always let the Unionist have the last word. Wherever possible, emphasise division in the pro-independence camp.
15. If you work in the media, DON’T use the Scots language except for ridicule or deprecation of Scottish culture.
16. If you work in the media, wherever possible DO seek out comment from an English accented individual, especially in authority situations. Never use a person with a Scots accent unless you have to. The exception is football, but we are even making progress there.
17. If you work in the History sector, (Universities, museums, historical sites), DO your best to eradicate or play down any nationalist content. The scourge of nationalism must be politically cleansed from our past, it only lends encouragement to independence ideas.
18. If you work in the History sector, DO claim that nothing of importance happened in Scotland prior to the Union. In particular Wallace is to be ignored, or if that is not possible, portray him as a terrorist. Portray the Bruces as self-seeking French rejects.
19. If you work in the History sector, DO claim that Scots were enthusiastic partners in Empire after the Union and that nationalism only reared its ugly head in the last few decades. Claim England really came to Scotland’s rescue in 1707 and that it was appreciated.
20. If you work on a cultural quango DO try to make sure that Scottish culture, particularly Folk and Celtic Music, goes ignored and unfunded. Encourage the output of politically cleansed material which promotes the Union, especially on TV.
21. If you work in the cultural sector, DO encourage the output of films and theatrical productions which denigrate Scottish culture. Negative, we know, but the key to success is to keep Scots’ national self-esteem down as much as possible. Comedy is particularly effective here as any criticism of it can be pooh-poohed as demonstrating a lack of sense of humour.
22. DO infer that Scots just aren’t good enough to govern themselves but DON’T ever put that in writing or you risk a charge of racism.
23. DO describe the SNP as being the ‘Proddy Party’ to private audiences of Catholics.
24. DO describe the SNP as being the ‘Papist Party’ to private audiences of Protestants.
25. DON’T make points 23 and 24 at the same time and once more make sure of your audience first.
For clarification for the reasoning behind these tips, and for many more, refer to your copy of “The British Unionist’s Handbook”.
** IMPORTANT! – READ THIS – IMPORTANT!
It is vital that this document should only be distributed to true British Unionists. Do not for a split second, think that all those who vote for Unionist parties can be trusted with the information in this document. The vast majority of them only vote for Unionist parties because we have managed to put some sort of doubt in their mind about the viability of an independent Scotland, in their heart of hearts they would still like to see an independent Scotland if they could.
So make sure this document only gets into the right hands – true, proud, British Unionists who put Britain first, who would be pro-Union even if it definitely meant Scotland would be worse off.
Remember, we may be in the minority but we are in the right – it is our duty to save Scotland from itself.
Rule Britannia!
***********************
Some things have changed a little, but really the biggest change has been the percentage of folk who now see it.
‘Spoof’ even, although ‘spook’ has its merits.
I can see SNP hanging on to that 45% of the vote that Yes achieved in the referendum.
The SNP supporters that voted yes will stick with the SNP of course, but those traditional voters from other parties will likely stick with them too.
No one likes to lose and this is a second chance to give Westminster and labour in Scotland in particular a bloody nose so soon after the referendum.
An awful lot of non-SNP supporters learned enough information during the ref campaign to realise they have been cheated for decades. They are not prepared to accept that anymore. Electing Jim Murphy was a gift to the SNP as those that voted Yes reject his style of politics.
Labour are in their death thralls, only need to look at the top of page to see the difference between the Yes labour man and the No labour man.
The Yes labour man knows the truth, No labour man makes it up.
@Chic McGregor –
Ha! Great stuff.
I wonder what chaos might be caused if this ‘document’ was given to a group of Politics ‘students’ (and/or the professors/lecturers responsible for them?!) – ‘Is this thing real or not? Discuss…’
The fact that such a scenario is even remotely plausible speaks volumes.
@heedtracker
The BBC partially upheld the Robinson bias issue complaint not that you would guess that from the Express headlines. Of course Robinson himself could not be found to be biased – He was just supporting his employer and the Union.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/comp-reports/ecu/news6pm10pm11sept14
It is interesting that only 42 complaints were received by BBC complaints which is a bit odd but perhaps most folk have just given up complaining or the BBC have just miscounted?
I put an FOI to get the numbers a while back and they rejected my request so it is interesting to see the numbers for one of the worst bias incidents of Indy ref and the only one the BBC have ever admitted that they had received complaints from the Yes side.
If anyone can stomach listening to her, Margaret Curran is on here with James Doran. I have no idea what she was on but what ever it was it was the WRONG dose! 😛
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04y9w5b
@Robert Peffers at 11:17 pm
Ah, Robert, it’s when I read beautiful, moving posts like this that I wish this site had a ‘recommend’ button. You’d get a thousand from me, sir.
Oops forgot to say they are on from around 15 minutes in.
Thanks to James who highlighted the radio programme on Twitter. 😉
Ah – I just realised these 42 are the ones who took it to the stage 2 complaints to the ECU.
So we will never know how many original complaints were raised about Young Tory – Nick Robinson.
I wonder if any of the “gallant forty twa” will carry on any further and push the complaint to the BBC Trust on appeal?
They are run by some Ex HSBC banker – she will be very sympathetic to the Indy case perhaps?
I thought that (unusually for the BBC,) Gordon Brewer pressed Jackie Bailey on a few points and allowed Stewart Hosie to pick up on most of the points (lies) she told.
She repeated the phrase that labour were not afraid of scrutiny and thought honesty was important, repeatedly saying that Labours only desire was to see Scotland’s finances to be open honest and transparent.
What a load of crap that woman talks! lol.
Until today, I have always assumed that good outweighed the bad.
And maybe, somewhere in the world, it does.
But not in the UK.
Not in the last 40 years.
Not in the British Government.
In Westminster, Evil isn’t everything, but it rules.
And in Scotland too – anywhere the name Labour presides.
I’ve no illusions about the SNP, nor about Independence.
But they’re not dominated by evil – not like Westminster.
In May, we all have a choice, between good and evil.
Between freedom and slavery.
Between Government lies – and the truth.
Westminster lied for 40 years about Scottish Oil.
Many Scots have little idea of what is really going on.
They get angry when you try to tell them.
In May, I hope lots of Independence candidates win.
That will be good.
And later, Independence will be good.
Then good will outweigh the bad in Scotland.
Thanks for that link Heedtracker
Whoa what have we here?
“The broadcaster’s Glasgow headquarters was besieged by around 2,000 furious Yes Scotland supporters amid claims that the journalist had “heckled” the former First Minister during a press conference.”
Were you lot screaming about AS being “heckled”? I wasn’t, he can handle himself and the banner demanding Nick Robinsons sacking was carried by two people not 2000 the BBC can spin our reasons all they like, our reason for being there was the absolute lies and hypocrisy of the BBC as a whole of which Robinson was one small part.
“And despite the large crowds that flocked to BBC Scotland’s Pacific Quay HQ, the ECU revealed that it had received only 42 official complaints.”
So it would appear your only wrong if you get an avalanche of complaints, wrong is wrong guys whether you get 42 complaints or 42.000!
“Nationalists pointed out that the BBC had broadcast live footage of the pair engaged in heated exchanges earlier that day and Mr Robinson said later he had made a “mistake” in implying he had failed to answer his question.”
MADE A MISTAKE?
Now hold on there good buddy, your saying that in the space of getting your arse back to the editing suite to see how you could spin this exchange to make you look good and AS bad (because what I saw live was he owned your sorry arse) you forgot your conversation that you had on film,)WE SAW IT REMEMBER) was in front of a room full of journalists from around the globe? well that wont look too good on your cv will it Nick or should I call you Sir Nick?
“The broadcaster acknowledged that the report “was inaccurate” in terms of implying Mr Salmond “didn’t answer” Mr Robinson’s questions.”
NO REALLY?
Inaccurate as in not even close to being reflective of what ACTUALLY happened which you seem to forget was aired live and
E-V-R-Y-O-N-E saw what really was said!
“But it added that the ECU “found no grounds for believing the inaccuracy to have been intentional, and it considered that the report overall gave a duly impartial account of Mr Salmond’s main points”. ”
OK I’m reaching a slow boil here,
Breaking news The BBC finds the BBC not guilty of— well anything, now and forever so forget wasting you time raising a complaint because we’re NEVER wrong!
AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
There has to be an impartial source in Europe the UN somewhere we can take this total garbage we’re being fed.
I begged the OSCE nearly two years ago and they told me to eff off (in the nicest possible way)
Lesley-Anne get me a brown paper bag quick!
Oh btw Honking Bothersall
I would lie down if I were you its getting a bit unseemly watching the Rev REPEATEDLY kicking your ass.
Britain is being run by Rothschilds et al. Poll tax, food banks etc. The Unionist Parties are funded by hedge funds. The SNP are funded by it’s members.
Cut Trident/HS2, cut the deficit. Westminster illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. They use the Official Secrets Act to hide their crimes. Westminster secrecy and lies.
Jackie Baillie wants ‘open’ accounts. Did Labour even publish Scottish Accounts? The McCrone Report kept secret for thirty years. Thatcher – Scottish Budget signed, ‘This must be kept secret’.
Westminster secrecy and lies to deceive.
I see on the BBC website the headline “Cameron makes full employment vow” (I cant be arsed reading it)
These vows are coming thick and fast eh? You would think there was an election coming or something.
Forgot to add. “Is VOW the new LIE”?
Jackie Baillie wants total open scrutiny.
How many members of the Labour Party are there is Scotland, Jackie, Mind, real ones not £1.00 day returns or multiple voting members. and cheap beer vouchers group.
SLAB membership BOGOF – multiple applications welcome. See Honest Jim for details.
@ John King 6:14am
Whooaaaa fella, Jeez that’ll no do your blood pressure any good at that time of the mornin’. 😀
Best defence is a good offence John. We get on with building on the fledgling media that the campaign gave birth to. OK, so it may clearly be biased toward independence, but its also a damn site more honest and critical of politicians in general than the established media and at the very least tells the other side of the story.
Its got off to a good start, but its still a youngster and needs all the help it can get. But as ma granny used to say; revenge is a dish best served with chocolate sprinkles or some such. 😉
John King 6.14am
Brilliant early morning reminder of what we are up against regarding the fight against BBC Scotland bias. I was also at that protest long with Ronnie Anderson and Co and saw the “Nick Banner”.
As you say, the protest was NOT about Nick Robinson, it was about the lies and mis-information that pours out of Pacific Quay on a daily basis, to this day.
A big AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! from me as well.
Meanwhile in Euroloand vis-a-vis Brexit of the EU.
European Commission boss Jean-Claude Juncker has given the clearest hint yet that he would be prepared to see the UK leave the EU, comparing the UK’s 42-year membership of the bloc to a romance gone wrong.
“People shouldn’t stay together if conditions aren’t the same as when things started,” said Juncker in Paris at the weekend, quipping that “it’s easy to fall in love and more difficult to stay together”.
The UK joined the then European Economic Community (EEC) in 1973, a decision confirmed by a referendum in 1975, but has long been regarded by many as an ‘awkward partner’.
“I am for the respect of member states, respect between the institutions and member states. I am against all forms of grovelling,” said Juncker.
from EUobserver
Ironies of ironies, for David Cameron.
Labour a complete waste of time and money.
https://twitter.com/KevinJPringle/status/557092056972394496
Call my Bluff writ large – good on you Mr Junker.
80% of UK / South British manufacturing industry depends on the EC market to a very large extent.
Survation Westminster voting intentions. SNP 46%, LAB 26%, CON 14%, LIB DEM 7%, UKIP 4%, GRE 3%.
@BTP
“People shouldn’t stay together if conditions aren’t the same as when things started,”
Seems a logical argument. I don’t think for all Dave’s front in the meeja, that either Ms Merkel or Mr Juncker felt very intimidated. 😀
@ Chic
Absolutely brilliant & the point is you can see & hear all of that in operation now. How do we get it out to people so they’re warned what to expect from canvassers.
Juncker & EU-exactly the same argument used with Scotland & UK. Split up of a marriage etc. Worked once so worth a try!
Patrick Roden says:
19 January, 2015 at 1:00 am
I thought that (unusually for the BBC,) Gordon Brewer pressed Jackie Bailey on a few points and allowed Stewart Hosie to pick up on most of the points (lies) she told.
She repeated the phrase that labour were not afraid of scrutiny and thought honesty was important, repeatedly saying that Labours only desire was to see Scotland’s finances to be open honest and transparent.
What a load of crap that woman talks! lol.
I think even Gordon Brewer is aware that most people no longer swallow the Red Tory guff any more.
Jim Murphy is bringing his Scottish Cabinet to Dundee (YES CITY) today.
“Tayside will host the first in a series of planned meetings across Scotland as leader Jim Murphy reaches out to former Labour supporters who voted for independence.”
“In the afternoon his cabinet will make visits to Ninewells Hospital, the Chamber of Commerce and Dundee Contemporary Arts.”
http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/scotland/labour-plan-for-city-s-success-1.794790
He is going to tell Dundonians how he will make everything so much better if you vote for the Labour Party.
Question for Murphy,
“Why didn’t you make Dundee so much better when you were in power in Scotland AND Westminster?”
And I hope you fumigate the City once these parasites have left.
Peter Mandelson on an interview on Sky News in 1999 (I think it was; certainly post-’97 and pre-2000): “The job of a spin doctor is to manufacture the truth.”
Plus ca change…..
On the subject of, given the opinion polls, of how many seats the SNP will win in May, I’ve regularly seen the expressed opinion that 20 or so is most likely
In reality, given FPTP, this is probably the least likely result. With FPTP, if a party’s popular vote is slowly rising, what happens is that there is initially a largeish popular vote and no seats, then a larger popular vote and a few seats, with one or two added at each vote. Then, as the popular vote rises, you reach a tipping point and win big.
I’ve seen this on many occasions. The first Blair government; an election in Rochester council where the council went from Tory control to one Tory seat (rather shoked a few Labour people who stood having been told they had no chance of being elected).
The SNP is close to or at the tipping point. If SLAB manages a fight back, they will be held to 10 or so, if not, they will win 30-40. 20 is possible only on an extremely unbalanced SNP advance.
Oops! Too many Talisker’s on my birthday. That was a later edition here is one from 2004.
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DOs and DON’Ts for Unionists in Scotland
This crib-sheet of DOs and DON’Ts has been compiled as a quick reference for all Unionists operating in the field of anti-nationalist activities in Scotland. It is an extract of what we regard as being the key actions from “The Wee Unionist’s Handbook” with which you are probably more familiar.
1) DO point out how well the Scottish economy is doing under the Union.
2) DO claim Scotland cannot afford independence.
3) DON’T, however, make points 1) and 2) to the same individual(s) at the same time.
4) DO describe the SNP or SSP as being the ‘Proddy Party’ to private audiences of Catholics.
5) DO describe the SNP or SSP as being the ‘Papist Party’ to private audiences of Protestants.
6) DO claim that the SSP would create an ‘Albanian style socialist republic’.
7) DO claim that the SNP would create an ‘Albanian style socialist republic’.
8) DO claim that the SNP are ‘Tartan Tories’.
9) DON’T claim 7) and 8) at the same time, and make sure of your audience’s political leanings first.
8) If you work in the media, DON’T ever report anything which might engender higher levels of national pride.
9) If you work in the media, DO report as often as possible anything which might help to lower Scots self-esteem. This is vital, if the electorate do not feel confident enough, they will not vote for independence supporting parties.
10) If you work in the media, DON’T report poll results on independence, they frequently show a majority for it. If you must, DO make sure they are ‘buried’ as much as possible.
11) If you work in the media and are interviewing politicians, DO make sure you are more aggressive with the pro-independence interviewee. Cut him/her off if they seem to be making a good point, and change the subject. Ridicule their answers and always let the Unionist have the last word. Wherever possible, emphasise division in the pro-independence camp.
12) If you work in the media, DON’T use the Scots language except for ridicule or deprecation of Scottish culture.
13) If you work in the media, wherever possible DO seek out comment from an English-accented individual, especially in authority situations. Never use a person with a Scots accent unless you have to. The exception is football, but we are working towards that.
14) If you work in the History sector, (Universities, museum, historical sites), DO your best to eradicate or play down any nationalist content. The scourge of nationalism must be politically cleansed from our past, it only gives encouragement to independence ideas.
15) If you work in the History sector, DO claim that nothing of importance happened in Scotland prior to the Union. In particular Wallace is to be ignored, or if that is not possible, portray him as a terrorist. Portray the Bruces as self-seeking French rejects.
16) If you work in the History sector, DO claim that Scots were enthusiastic partners in Empire after the Union, and that nationalism only reared its ugly head in the last few decades. Claim England came to Scotland’s rescue in 1707 and it was appreciated.
17) If you work on a cultural quango DO try to make sure that Scottish culture, particularly Folk and Celtic Music, goes ignored and unfunded. Encourage the output of politically cleansed material which promotes the Union, especially on TV.
18) If you work in the cultural sector, DO encourage the output of films and theatrical productions which denigrate Scottish culture.
19) DO infer that Scots just aren’t good enough to govern themselves but DON’T ever put that in writing.
20) DO claim that Scots drink far more than the rest of the UK, but don’t put this in writing either because technically according to NHS statistics they drink less than the English. However the common perception is they do, so you will get away with it.
For clarification for the reasoning behind these tips, and for many more, refer to your copy of “The Wee Unionist’s Handbook”.
Remember, we may be in the minority but we are in the right – Scotland must be saved from itself.
Rule Brittania!
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Not a lot different.
Should point out that newer statistics say Scots do drink more than the English now. Q.E.D.
Duncan Horseshit is a legend.
He should get much much more publicity.
If he keeps this level of outright lies up I’ve a feeling he will ????????????
@ Chic Mc gregor
Thanks for that great check-list.
I modified it to suit Northern ireland, adding pics (I do like a nice bit of colour on the page!!) and comments.
All we need now is a Welsh friend to adjust it for Wales and we’ll be able to sell boxed sets!
Hope you and all the other Wingers enjoy the post!
Best to all
ben
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2015/01/19/for-your-eyes-only-key-actions-from-the-british-unionists-handbook/
o/t @Robert Peffers: quote:’Hadrian’s wall was to prevent smuggling – not a defence against the northern British tribes ‘
Sorry Robert, but you’re buying into the British/English Historians’ re-writing of ‘Roman Britain’…it goes thus:
‘Y’Know how we used to (for centuries, eg. see the Venerable Bede) mock those hairy unruly preHistory-Jocks beyond Hadrian’s wall who the Romans couldn’t handle because they were too tough?…Well that’s all bull, now the fact is that we’ve claimed Boudica as the toughest of the tough down here in Estuary Land and yeah she was a ginger, but she was a real Brit.
Yeah she did speak ancient Welsh but…
Anyway yeah the Pre Jocks…well the Romans looked around and figured it was all Scotch mist and mountains up there so they decided to build a custom post…yeah 73 miles long and 3 meters deep..yeah and 20 feet high, with 10,000 er, custom officers to um..well you know keep them from leaving ENg..er Brittania.
What was that?..yeah they did build another wall further north that they abandoned…..but ..Yes it was raised to the ground by some unruly bands and yes the Romans did have to reinforce the Hadrian’s Wall..I mean…custom post..but’
You get the picture? Unruly savages one minute, unimportant and unworthy opponents and not worth conquering. And that’s only part of what the chain of ‘British’ documentaries about our history are about….writing us out of history!
@Lochside, I’ll buy that, did they build a wall around the entire Roman Empire or were the Caledonians the only folks taxed?