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The power of ideas

Posted on September 01, 2019 by

So it seems like our semi-idle musings about the possibility of starting a new list party for the Scottish Parliament generated some interest last month.

(That’s more than the whole of 2018, more than the whole of 2017, and over five times the previous biggest single month since we moved to our current stats provider in December 2014.)

But yeah, nobody cares and it’d be certain to fail, apparently.

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    715 to “The power of ideas”

    1. Thepnr says:

      Can it get any worse for Johnson?

      Grandson of Sir Nicholas Soames confirms he will vote against the government tonight. Boris was last seen weeping quietly on the shoulder of Rees-Mogg. Sniff!

      https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1168939995215933440

    2. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Louis

      Pooped in your pants again Robert? Something stinks right enough.

    3. Thepnr says:

      Sir Nicholas Soames is the grandson of Winston Churchill of course, the news was so exciting that he was voting against Johnson that I got a bit over enthusiastic in my wish to share it 🙂

    4. call me dave says:

      Heard that Labour won’t use the 2/3 rule but go for a device which is a motion to have a vote where a 1 vote majority triggers a GE.

    5. Doug says:

      Don’t mention the war! Oh, wait…

      #Who do you think you are kidding, Mr Johnson…#

    6. North chiel says:

      “Jfngw @0449 pm” would agree a majority of seats to be thereafter ratified via referendum would be preferable especially as if SNP & Greens combined vote share was under 50 percent ,the relevance of the referendum ratification would be due to the voter franchise for Yes/No vote which would INCLUDE 16/17 year olds and EU citizens . ( excluded from U.K. GE ) .

    7. Capella says:

      @ Robert Kerr – to be fair the article about making Scottish DNA British DNA was a 2012 related article linked to in today’s news. So although it is obvious propaganda, it isn’t NEW propaganda!
      Here’s the link to today’s article citing the research in the Irish Times (thank the gods for Ireland!):
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49563887

    8. Colin Alexander says:

      If the SNP don’t stand for independence at the GE.

      Simple: don’t vote for them.

      Devo-Queen Nicola would soon get the boot.

      When SNP MPs don’t stand for indy, they are as much use as a chocolate teapot anyway. The SNP have achieved NOTHING at WM. That’s the truth.

      If the SNP do stand for independence: vote for them.

      When I say independence, I don’t mean talk about they believe Scotland should be independent but do hee-haw about it.

      I don’t mean: Pretty please Empire masters, can we have self-determination via an s30?

      I mean: “Scotland is sovereign. We shall have our indyref without WM interference or declare Holyrood sovereign”.

    9. Thepnr says:

      @Colin Alexander

      “If the SNP don’t stand for independence at the GE.

      Simple: don’t vote for them.

      Devo-Queen Nicola would soon get the boot.”

      Do you bother to read the other posts before imparting your flawed knowledge on the rest of us? You talking guff again Mr A.

      Ms Sturgeon warned that the issue will be at the heart of the looming general election, expected to be held next month.

      “Let me be crystal clear today, the SNP will put Scotland’s opposition to Brexit and our right to choose independence at the very heart of that contest.”

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-power-of-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-2484321

    10. Colin Alexander says:

      Thepnr

      Nicola says:

      “opposition to Brexit”? I say again: BREXIT ????

      That’s not seeking a clear mandate for indy.

      The manifesto should read: We shall declare independence if any interference in our democratic mandate for Indyref2 from the sovereign people of Scotland.

      We’ll decide our own EU future when exercising our sovereignty.

    11. call me dave says:

      J.R.Mogg calls out Jeremy who he says is ‘white with fear’ at the thought of a VNC win followed by an GE.

      What will Jeremy do?

    12. Cubby says:

      I wonder if Mr Alexander is getting double time these days.

    13. Thepnr says:

      @Colin Alexander

      “The manifesto should read: We shall declare independence if any interference in our democratic mandate for Indyref2 from the sovereign people of Scotland.”

      Such arrogance LOL.

      See you when you make it as the elected Leader of any Party in Scotland then you get to say what that parties manifesto should say. Until and unless you become First Minister of Scotland and Leader of the SNP you don’t get to tell anyone what “the manifesto should read” that the SNP will take into the coming General election. Get it Sad Sack?

    14. Cubby says:

      Rees- Mogg must be the most boring person I have ever had the misfortune of listening to.

      The UK constitution – what a dogs dinner.

    15. Colin Alexander says:

      Cubby

      Brownie points to you Cubby. You are improving. Got the name right at last.

      If you stopped slagging people on Wings you would get even more respect.

    16. manandboy says:

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDjmxvJW4AYoJFs?format=jpg&name=medium

      The Brexit Timeline, with EU Tax Evasion legislation at the centre of it.

    17. call me dave says:

      BBC cuts away from Blackford again to chat among pundits… but

      I’m listening to him on the parliament tv and a good speech it is too.

    18. maggie MacPhee says:

      Sat through an hour of JRM twittering on in the exhuberant style he so clearly plagiarised from Leonard Sachs in The Good Old Days, only to have Sky TV cut out/talk over Ian Blackford the moment he rose to speak.

      I wasn’t surprised either.

    19. Giving Goose says:

      Call me dave

      Ian Duncan Smith left the benches, bowed to the Speaker as per protocol then turned and with glorious technicolour body language, looks at the SNP benches with absolute hatred. So obvious.
      F*** him!

    20. Dr Jim says:

      You should join the new Wings party Colin he seems to think you can sarcasm the UK government into submission so you’ll fit right in there

    21. Welsh Sion says:

      callmedave @ 8.02pm.

      This (and only this), from the Guardian.

      “Ian Blackford, the SNP leader at Westminster, is speaking now. He accuses Boris Johnson of acting like a dictator. And he says the Conservative party is now acting like a cult.”

      MSM not wanting Scotland’s voice to be heard? Quelle surprise ! (I’d even hazard that they feature NOTHING from Plaid Cymru …)

    22. call me dave says:

      I quite like old hush puppy Clarke there speaking a bit of sense and taking the piss out of the J.R.Mogg gang with consummate ease!

      🙂

    23. Thepnr says:

      Ken Clarke ripping the pish out of Rees-Mogg was excellent.

      Great speech by him and I never thought I’d say that. An honest Tory and they are a rare breed for sure.

    24. call me dave says:

      SNAP!

    25. Thepnr says:

      🙂

    26. call me dave says:

      @Welsh Sion

      I’m sure Wales will speak! A bit of time to go. 🙂

    27. scotspatriot says:

      I’m done with British!t MSM.

    28. Thepnr says:

      So right at the last minute…

      Government chief whip Mark Spencer has started to call in declared Tory rebels to say: I’m afraid I am going to have to remove the whip from you tonight

      https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1168971224648683521

      I’ve made my mind up now. Naw, Johnson/Cummings are not geniuses.

    29. Cubby says:

      Colin Alexander@7.58pm

      I think I can get by with Zero respect from you quite happily. So no need for you to bother.

    30. Thepnr says:

      The state of Rees-Mogg lying on the Tory front bench is not a good look. He is literally lounging on the front bench just escaping putting his feet up.

      He shows the contempt that he has for parliament and his position. That small clip will be all over the internet tomorrow.

    31. call me dave says:

      Well the last three speakers certainly painted a brutal picture of Boris, J.R.Mogg and their acolytes such as Cummings and Cash with their threats and bullying.

    32. Cubby says:

      Excellent speech from Ian Blackford. Sky of course cut to the adds just as he was about to speak and then focussed on the hurricane news. They don’t want people to hear what the SNP have to say. Censorship not democracy.

      Tory MP Clarke ripped in to the brexiteers big time. Rees-Mogg looking sheepish.

    33. call me dave says:

      Jings! Sir Bernard (a Tory) giving them ding-dong.

      Boris a tin pot dictator and ‘manchild’. Hmm! that’s a new one. 🙂

      Oh! The House of Commons reduced to a parish council … Michty!
      Says Antoinette Sandbach Tory MP

    34. Thepnr says:

      This is so F**king blatant manipulation of a politicians interview that you MUST watch this.

      https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1168976104335581184

      I reckon someone put a rocket up his arse and now watch the longer version that puts her whole response to the question in context.

      https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1168978875910635521

      This is pure and simple propaganda and boils my piss.

    35. sassenach says:

      Coco

      Yawn, zzzzz……,

    36. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 20:50,

      All previous Tory leaders from Major onwards bent over backwards to preserve unity in their party, with the difficulties always being caused by the dissident proto-Leavers. Now with BoJo in charge, it has become only about culling all opponents of Leave. That’s the difference in mentality. Tory Leavers have no tolerance whatever of dissidence, and they are willing to split their party to achieve dominance.

      That was always what “taking back control” was all about. An internal Tory coup followed by a coup against the whole UK.

    37. Simon Curran says:

      8.44
      Arch Eurosceptic Bill Cash says “We must be allowed to govern ourselves”. I take it he’ll adopt the same attitude towards another referendum on Scotland dissolving the Union and becoming independent!

    38. Thepnr says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      There’s been an update since then.

      Blame game beginning

      – some on wider Team Boris now say they recognise they are heading for defeat (“we’re f*****)

      – suggest Tory whips office has been underestimating rebellion (they put it at 10-15)

      – and wonder if raising stakes via deselection was wise

      https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1168984936910598144

    39. Dr Jim says:

      “Willie Rennie is a ludicrous figure” says Michael Russell live on the BBC 9 channel
      The BBC interviewer nearly spat his tea oot and glurbled then Michael Russell repeated it over again saying “Well he is a ludicrous figure”

    40. call me dave says:

      BBC presenter now handing over to the sleekit Liam Fox as ‘live in the house’ but he was speaking a long time ago and is now in the strangers bar quaffing a pint’

      Also:
      Soddy performance from Boris from the dispatch box says the MSM pundit and he’s not attempting a negotiating for any deal he’s
      trying to drag his party with him and it’s all about power.

    41. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 21:36,

      Presumably they thought the Tory rebels would fold under the extremity of deselection and instead most of the rebs have showed backbone, since ~14 was the expected number.

      “Oops, just put the squeeze on and something broke. Didn’t mean to.”

      Well, maybe not now in the current HoC, but the moves have been afoot in the constituencies, driven by a significant degree of right-wing Leaver entryism.

      Meanwhile, there’s a bunch of MPs trying to resurrect May’s deal with an amendment tomorrow.

      Labour MPs.

      You just couldn’t make this stuff up.

    42. Cubby says:

      Disgraceful behaviour from Rees-Mogg. Lying flat out on the bench at the dispatch box looking as if he is sleeping while MPs are making their speeches. His true character starting to show as he is under pressure.

    43. Thepnr says:

      Interlude starts:

      While the vote takes place relax and listen to this in the background, it’s what it’s all about. Pink Floyd – Us and Them 🙂

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDbeqj-1XOo

    44. robertknight says:

      To those who commented on my previous…

      In 2015 the SNP won 56 out of 59 WM seats and 50% of votes cast.

      If the SNP/Yes can’t win >50% of seats and >50% of votes cast in the boorach we have now then there’s no hope.

    45. call me dave says:

      Heard there that Boris will accept the extension to Brexit if he loses the vote BUT call an election AND put in the manifesto that the vote tonight will be rescinded before Oct 31st. (If he wins election and is still PM)
      Then push a no deal Brexit through.

      Jings!

      Cummings must be a good poker player but he might be holding Aces and eights this time.

    46. Heart of Galloway says:

      Sky News suggesting 16 Tory MPs will vote against BoJo with maybe 6 Lab/independents voting with Blondini. Rebel Alliance majority of 20?

    47. Thepnr says:

      @call me dave

      Worse than that, he holds nothing better than a pair of tens.

    48. Thepnr says:

      @Heart of Galloway

      Might be 20, I think more than 25. Doesn’t really matter when 1 is enough though lol.

    49. Thepnr says:

      Taking a long time for the tellers to appear, eek might be much closer than thought.

    50. Ealasaid says:

      In-D-Car Gordon Ross 3.9.19 – The solution to Brexit is simple

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NchpTciyFl4

    51. call me dave says:

      Boris loses…for the moment 🙁

    52. Heart of Galloway says:

      BoJo loses by 27

    53. Meg merrilees says:

      Ayes 328 Noes 301 Boris has lost his first vote.

    54. K1 says:

      Here it comes…29

    55. K1 says:

      oops…27

    56. K1 says:

      He really is a piece of shit.

    57. call me dave says:

      There you go Boris wants to go to the country. 🙂

    58. Heart of Galloway says:

      Johnson wants GE Corbyn says only after legislation preventing no deal is passed, which is now very likely. GE almost certain.

    59. Big Del says:

      That’s the Second time Blackford goes to speak and Sky news cuts
      off to “experts” in the studio. Blatant bias and suppression
      Of speech against the 3rd biggest party…

    60. Macart says:

      Heh. That went pretty much as expected. 😎

      Aaaand just as predictably, they faded out Ian Blackford’s response.

    61. Hamish100 says:

      So Johnson speaks, Corbyn speaks, Ian Blackford to speak, BBC news cuts off to presenter.

      They are good at that.

    62. Heart of Galloway says:

      Sarah Smith reporting SNP leadership will back GE as long as U.K does not crash out during campaign. IOW prior to October 31. IndyRef2 and no Brexit AT ALL for remain-voting Scotland will be at heart of campaign.

    63. Boris looked quite uncomfortable and Rees -Mogg looked like he was almost going to cry.

      Where does it go now?

      Corbyn refused an immediate election ( phew!) and told Boris get the deal through first.

    64. Thepnr says:

      Laura Kuenssberg and Robert Peston will be greeting now that Corbyn hasn’t fallen into line and given Johnson his choice of when a General election should be. The bastard!

      The likes of those two are what have allowed the UK parliament to have been taken over by such a motley crew as the ERG mob.

    65. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      BoJo is playing poker with pretend cards.

      He blames his rebels for undermining his high-stakes 11th hour “deal”.

      Y’know, that fig-leaf fantasy deal that doesn’t actually exist.

    66. geeo says:

      @Hamish 100

      Sky did the same to Mr Blackford.

    67. Thepnr says:

      Peston says

      There were 22 senior Tories, most of them former ministers, who voted against @BorisJohnson tonight. He says they will all be expelled from his party.

      https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1168998055795920902

      Once expelled the government is toast, it was already but this just reinforces that. Next up is that the opposition will get the extension that they seek. Then Johnson is toast, he must go and a General Election will take place.

      The polls will be worth watching after todays performance in his first main test. I doubt support for Johnson will be going up, hahaha no the honeymoon period is over.

    68. geeo says:

      21 tory rebels, not a single rebel from Scotland.

      Mange tout, rodney, mange tout !!

    69. geeo says:

      21 ex tories with a personal grudge, a major vote tomorrow, what could possibly go wrong ???

      Maybe threaten them to be rejoined into the tories 😉

    70. Thepnr says:

      Johnson’s hero apparently is Winston Churchill and he has just withdrawn the whip from him grandson Sir Nicolas Soames.

      What a clown, but we knew that already. I hope he hasn’t moved his furniture into No 10 yet, which looks like it would have been a waste of money hahaha. Oh mah sides 🙂

    71. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      None of the Blue Tories from Scotland rebelled against BoJos Government Whip.

      Not representing the wishes of the Scottish Electorates EU Membership vote in the 2016 Referendum.

      I am not surprised.

      A GE will hopefully clear them all out.

    72. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Once again rumbles about an HoC bill (on a simple majority vote) to temporarily set aside the Fixed Term Parliaments Act and set a fixed mid-Oct date for a UKGE.

    73. Daisy Walker says:

      The EU have briefed tonight that they have grave reservations that the British Government is backtracking on the withdrawal agreement, and has not put forward any – old or new – solutions to the Irish Border. Not dealing in good faith.

      Does anyone really think that any of the Unionist parties would honour a S 30 agreement if it were ever granted. It would not be worth the paper written on or last out the day, the second the English parties felt it inconvenient.

      A gold plated Indy Ref 2 seems a long way from Kansas now.

      The current bill going through parliament to stop/delay Brexit will need Queens Assent, as apposed to Royal Assent. Don’t know what that entails to be honest, but suspect it will take days and enable the clock to be run down yet again.

      It is not in the interests of any of the Establishment parties to have the Establishment pay their taxes. A no deal brexit has been just as much labour’s plan as the tories – they just had a different set of lines to deliver.

      Some things are very clear – they cannot afford to lose Scotland – we are the cash cow, and they are desperate to keep us away from the ballot box.

    74. robertknight says:

      Meanwhile, Captain Johnson aboard the SS Yookaye plots a course directly towards the Brexit Head Lighthouse and declares “Full Steam Ahead!”

      Time for Scotland to abandon ship!

    75. Re Rees Mogg’s posture during the debate – he has regularly occupied his seat in that fashion. Only difference is that he was always tucked away in the far corner, almost off camera so it was rarely noticed.

      Not made a good impression tonight with his overbearing manner during the debate. I’m sure he had a whale of a time but it was all pretty arrogant stuff and quite hypocritical. Glad I listened on Parliament channel as they don;t automatically cut out or talk over Ian Blackford and co.

      Just twelve hours to go till the Court of Sessions announcement tomorrow . Could be about to get a whole lot worse for Boris….

    76. Simon Curran says:

      And when all is said and done the reasons for Scotland to be independent will remain. Even if a no deal is avoided, even if Johnson is defeated the reasons for Scotland to be independent will remain.

    77. Wonder how Theresa May feels tonight – smiley face I hope.

    78. Capella says:

      Listened to the rowdy vote in the HoC tonight. Boris Johnston sounds completely out of his depth.
      Stephen Kerr on R4 now saying why he voted with the government. Stuttering over if he can keep his seat. Eleanor Goodman asking him the difficult questions.

    79. call me dave says:

      @Meg merrilees

      Court case. We wish! b=But can’t see it going our way.

      I listened to it all and our man made the better case I thought.

    80. galamcennalath says:

      Big Del says:

      Sky news

      They seem to be moving towards becoming Fox News for England. Right wing, opinion rather than news, unashamedly biased, sneering and jeering, and above all cheerleaders for English Nationalism.

    81. Thepnr says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      I’m sure that’s what he will go for. So what, he still needs a majority and failed to get one tonight.

      Any bill can be amended and such an amendment I suspect would include that an extension must be in place before said election could take place. Thirdly it has to get through the House of Lords.

      Sacking 21 Tory Mp’s tonight won’t have done him any favours either, dont you think?

    82. K1 says:

      The whip hasn’t been withdrawn from any of the ‘rebels’ they all have to get into line for tomorrow’s vote and if they do they will be ‘saved’ from getting booted.

      Game playing nonsense.

    83. Liz g says:

      That puir wee dug…
      It will go from all the Downing Street Staff taking good care of it.
      To—
      Home Alone with an temperamental failure ,who’s even probably jealous that the wee thing won’t ever have the worry about a comb over!!
      Hope tae fuck it never goes anywhere near his lap top!!

    84. Effijy says:

      Full House!

      I watched the STV news and as soon as Ian Blackford attempts to speak over to a nobody reporter for another declaration of they don’t where things are going.

      Sky, BBC, and ITV all stop parliamentary coverage the moment anyone from the SNP speak?

      They never did this when the Fib Dems were the 3rd largest party and with fewer seats.

      I think SNP has to contact each party for a response as to why this is repeatedly happening and who co-ordinates this new universal procedure.

      FFS

    85. Thepnr says:

      Where do the likes of Amber Rudd who’s still in the cabinet go now. She was dead against withdrawing the whip from MP’s that voted against no deal. How many hypocrites remain in the cabinet?

      The Tory party are disintegrating and there’s every chance they will lose the next election in my opinion. People do eventually wake up, I just wish labour would get rid of Corbyn though which would make it a certainty.

    86. Thepnr says:

      @K1

      No, they are definitely all gone under ALL circumstances.

      https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169001298164932610

    87. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 22:46,

      Boris’ problem now is that nobody – but nobody – trusts him, so an extension buffer would be the necessary insurance policy.

      A rebellion of 21. That’s a stonker. More than anticipated. I womder what Boris said to the rebs this afternoon to encourage them so wonderfully! =grin= (For answer, return to 1st sentence.)

    88. Thepnr says:

      @Liz g

      The wee dug is the only one that I feel sorry for too.

    89. K1 says:

      From the Guardian 28 mins ago, your link is from this afternoon Thpnr

      ‘Tory rebels given second chance to prove loyalty tomorrow before losing whip, says Leadsom

      Andrea Leadsom, the business secretary, has signalled that the Tory rebels will not have the whip removed immediately. In an interview with BBC, she said that she hoped that the MPs who voted against the government would “reconsider overnight” and decide to vote with the government to defeat the bill tomorrow. Asked if they would lose the whip immediately, she said they wouldn’t. They would get a second chance, she said.’

    90. K1 says:

      Okay, I’ve misread the timing on that tweet, although it doesn’t have a 2.21pm stamp on it for some reason, but when I looked at Keunsburg account it’s in the last 20 minutes.

      So something isn’t adding up. If Leadsom has issued the above statement, it’s a big contradiction.

    91. K1 says:

      does have, not doesn’t have…och

    92. K1 says:

      okay, clarification has come in last 10 or so mins:

      12m ago
      22:48
      Andrea Leadsom, the business secretary, was wrong when she said earlier that the Tory rebels would be given a second chance before they had the whip removed (see 10.29pm), the BBC’s Vicki Young reports.

      Vicki Young
      @BBCVickiYoung
      · 30m
      Andrea Leadsom tells me Tory rebels have another chance to stay in the party if they vote with Government tomorrow. Has PM got cold feet? #brexit

      Vicki Young
      @BBCVickiYoung
      Now been told that all 21 will lose whip in all circumstances!

      255
      10:36 PM – Sep 3, 2019
      Twitter Ads info and privacy

    93. K1 says:

      So your are correct Thpnr.

    94. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Effijy @ 10:49,

      I wasn’t even trying to watch tonight (otherwise occupied & house tennis fans on Amaz. Prime) but when CNN does live coverage, the channel never cuts away from the SNP and LibDem party leaders.

    95. call me dave says:

      New election proffered from sources 15th October.
      Seems 14th is a special day in some calender. ??

    96. Thepnr says:

      @K1

      It’s The Torygraph that gets things wrong and this is a beauty 🙂

      https://twitter.com/thhamilton/status/1169007828838834176

    97. crazycat says:

      @ K1

      The Guardian at 22.48 reports a tweet by Beth Rigby of the BBC, first quoting Leadsom on the reprieve, then contradicting that.

      At 2305, the G is reporting that the whip has already been withdrawn from Philip Hammond.

    98. manandboy says:

      http://archive.is/m0pBD

      As reported in The Times, on Stu’s proposed entry in to Scottish politics as a list only party. If what is quoted below is accurate, then she is ill informed, as the quote is false.

      “If you support independence and you want to see an SNP government, then the simple and best way to secure that is to vote SNP at every opportunity you have,” she told the BBC’s Good Morning Scotland.

      The Independence movement needs clear, accurate, appropriate, and timely information from the Scottish government. At the moment, this is not quite up to requirements.

    99. crazycat says:

      @ K1

      Scrub my effort at 11.07 – not only had you already seen the tweets, I got the woman’s name wrong. Sorry! (Past my bedtime.)

    100. Liz g says:

      K1 & Thepnr
      Where will that leave the convention that to be PM ye have to command a majority of the H of C ???

    101. Thepnr says:

      @K1

      Kuenssberg twitter times are way out, been like that all day.

    102. Could Corbyn form a government to see a good deal Brexit through,

      with the promise of an election after Brexit concluded,

      and granting us a Section 30 into the bargain.

    103. Lenny Hartley says:

      Thenpr sorry mate if there is an election next month the tories will win with a very workable majority.
      Do not underestimate the depth of feeling in England against the EU. Going by the views of several hundred English facebook friends I have due to our common interest in Motorcycle Racing
      Nobody is talking of changing their views, if anything they are hardening.
      In Scotland its a different story yesterday I was on the mainland and whilst waiting at the ferry terminal for the boat back to Arran was sitting nextto a prominate local Tory, our first few words were to agree a truce on politics , but it did not take him long to start berating Boris and saying he would never vote Tory again as long as Boris was PM. This is the second “prominent” Tory on Arran in the last couple of weeks who has told me this. I think especially with all the Tory MP’s in Scotland voting with the Government tonight that there will be consequences for the Tory vote, some will go to the Liberals but I think most will stay at home. One thing that Davidson was good at was using her Media training to whip up the Unionist vote, not sure the used car salesman is up to the task.I think that Unionist vote will go to the Liberals. i see Rory the Tory is no more, Rory the Indy doesnt have the same ring to it 🙂

    104. Thepnr says:

      @Liz g

      Right now he still does have a majority of the HoC just that some of them want him to shoot himself in the other foot first before they push him out.

      If it was me I’d definitely support him staying UNTIL I TELL HIM WHEN IT IS TIME TO GO!. He doesn’t get a choice now, his fate is in the oppositions hands. Proved himself to be a clown.

    105. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Scot Finlayson @ 23:13,

      There is no such thing as a “good deal Brexit”. Only different shades of bad. All of them significantly worse than what we already have.

      As for trusting Labour on an S.30 deal, Corbyn has already rowed back on MacDonnell’s punt. Not until well into a Labour term, now, it seems. They intend to string us along and milk us again, just like the late 1970’s.

    106. Thepnr says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      I don’t really care if Johnson does win a General Election, I just wanted him to fall flat on his face and he has. Every Tory supporter in Scotland must be cringing over what has happened today. He’s embarrassed them with his antics.

      He treats all this as a joke when it really requires a serious person in charge. F*ck knows what the Tory members were thinking of when they made him PM.

      Lenny mate, it’s all good for the Independence cause. I just can’t see too many Labour voters that might have voted for the Tories last time because they believed in the Union doing the same again.

      A Labour government anyway after another election I believe would be easier to deal with than a Tory one, a minority Labour government even easier.

      Johnson’s embarrassment today is a gift we shouldn’t overlook. He will collapse after today, you won’t see much more of the cheeky chaappy putting his foot on the stool in France. The EU will ignore him as being a waste of space who’s time has come and gone. What an embarrassment he has only weeks left in No 10.

      The grin has been well and truly wiped off his smug puss.

    107. Tam the Bam. says:

      the pnr @ 11-15pm

      The PM does NOT command a majority in the HOC.

      Irrefutable fact.

    108. Thepnr says:

      Tam the Bam

      Sure he doesn’t command a majority but other than resigning he has nowhere else to go. Parliament will decide his fate on their terms and when they chose to do so.

      He’s a lame duck but is being left to “act” as Prime Minister simply because it suits the opposition for him to do so, for now.

    109. Liam says:

      The PM does NOT command a majority in the HOC.

      Irrefutable fact.

      even more so now:

      Government sources have confirmed to the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg that all 21 Conservative rebels are having the whip removed.

      Removing the whip effectively means expelling the MPs from the parliamentary party.

    110. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Jeezz! – No comments since 7.29, are you all glued to the telly?

      Lots of foot shooting going on down in the nations capital.

      Mostly drowned out by ya-booing and the sounds of triumphalist hubris.

      YOU’LL GET NO ELECTION WITHOUT AN EXTENSION…SUCK IT UP BORIS!

      As Tony stands on the sidelines, shouting “watch out “Jeremy…it’s a trap!”

      But only seventeen poor isolated souls are listening, as Boris and Nigel chuckle in the background.

      Blackford, Corbyn and Swinson will be the architects of their own doom,they are just too far up their own arses to see it.

      Posterity will record that they had ample opportunity to accept Teresa May’s “deal” but rejected it at every turn.

      Let us pray that Scotland is free by then.

    111. Sky news saying whip has been withdrawn from Philip Hammond and Nicholas Soames.

      Boris started the day with a majority of 311 and has ended up with 289

    112. Col.Blimp IV says:

      refresh button must be malfunctioning

    113. Tam the Bam. says:

      The pnr @ 11-30pm

      I concur with all you said in your previous post.
      Merely correcting your assertion (said in error I’m sure) that…”right now he still holds a majority in the HOC.”

    114. ben madigan says:

      @call me dave who said

      New election proffered from sources 15th October.
      Seems 14th is a special day in some calender. ??

      14thOctober is Ist day of Succoth, an orthodox Jewish festival

    115. call me dave 14th October is a Jewish special day – ‘Succott’ so they wouldn’t be able to vote. Hence it will be the 15th Oct. if it happens.

    116. Thepnr says:

      @Meg merrilees

      Pedant alert, not a majority of 311 ending with 289 but that’s the number of MP’s currently with the Tory whip.

    117. Lenny Hartley says:

      Thenpr, yup all good for us, but do not under estimate Boris, yup he is a puppet but it is who is pulling the Brexit strings that will decide not Parliament. Every possible combination will have been gamed including forgetting to post the letter to the EU with the request to extend article 50.
      Remember its not just the British super rich who will fall foul of EU anti tax avoidance legislation.
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mercer

    118. Tam the Bam. says:

      Col. Blimp IV @ 11-39pm

      Seems to me YOU’RE the one with your head up your arse!

      Ian Blackford was a star tonight.

      Well done Ian.

    119. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Hmmm, I wonder what all those excommunicated Tory rebs will do now?

      Hang together or hang apart?

      Start a new party, perhaps? Or like their ex-colleague today, join Swansong’s “slightly nicer Tories”?

    120. call me dave says:

      @ben madigan

      @Meg merrilees

      Thanks. I was too busy/lazy to google it.

    121. call me dave says:

      I see a poll being punted which is not good for ‘Scottish’ Tories and one other party? Bet Tories in England up & Big Labour down.

      Maybe Wee Labour down too. It’s in the Times but I’ll wait on James Kelly to crunch the numbers.

    122. Thepnr says:

      Well there’s at least one happy Tory leaving Westminster tonight. I’ve never saw her look so gleeful.

      https://twitter.com/reuterspictures/status/1169009600101781512

    123. K1 says:

      Other available upsides to tonight’s whip removal…Rory the Tory no longer a Tory party member.

      Also…not a single Tory MP from Scotland voted against their clown PM. So that’s them totally fucked.

      I know, petty and deeply satisfying all at once. 🙂

    124. Dr Jim says:

      The Scottish Tories had to stick with Boris Johnson to keep their jobs a little while longer and who would be left to complain about the SNP if they’d been all kicked out

      Plus can you imagine the volume of the laughter in Scotland as they all came back on the bus

    125. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Tam the Bam.

      Margo would have shone, as would have Salmond or Sillars, Neal, McCaskill, Cuningham and a few of the others, would have sparkled a bit on a good day but Ian is “Buggins Turn Blackford” … The last of the ’79 Group to get a shot at the limelight.

    126. Thepnr says:

      @K1

      Been a while since I’ve had such fun laughing at the state of Westminster politics. Tomorrow though might be even better when we have Boris Johnson hosting his first FMQ’s.

      That should be a belter, wish I still had a video recorder 🙂

    127. Jamiefairlie says:

      New Times Poll….

      “Labour is on course to be pushed into fourth place at Holyrood by the Liberal Democrats as Richard Leonard’s party continues its freefall in the polls.

      The SNP would be one seat short of an overall majority with 64 MSPs, according to an analysis of YouGov research for The Times. With the support of a ten-strong group of Greens there would be a pro-independence majority of 19 in the Scottish parliament.

      The Scottish Conservatives would lose six MSPs without Ruth Davidson, who quit as party leader last week, but would hold on to second place.

      The seat projections are based on analysis by Sir John Curtice, Britain’s leading polling expert.”

    128. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Tam the Bam.

      I wasn’t criticizing Ian Blackford’s performance, merely hinting that I shared Tony Blairs fear that The Tory right and the Brexit Party will collude to ensure that a right bunch of facsist hyeena’s (even by Blair’s standards) are in control of the next Tory Government.

      And if that comes to pass … It will be entirely the fault of the fanatical Remainiacs.

      Personally I do not give a shit what supranational organizations England is in … so long as a Union with Scotland is not one of them.

    129. dadsarmy says:

      I get the feeling BoJo is being hung out to dry by, well, everybody, basically.

    130. Thepnr says:

      @Col.Blimp IV

      “It will be entirely the fault of the fanatical Remainiacs.”

      It’s a fact, says some sad old Brexiteer duffer 🙂

    131. Cubby says:

      The pound at its lowest level for nearly 35 years.

      Wasn’t this sort of currency devaluation supposed to happen to an independent Scotland if we voted yes. Better Together a bunch of Britnat liars.

      Food prices increasing and will rise more after Brexit.

      Wasn’t this the sort of price increase that was supposed to happen to an independent Scotland if we voted yes. Better Together a bunch of Britnat liars.

    132. call me dave says:

      Jings poll hints on WoS twitter have a look! 🙂 🙂

    133. HYUFD says:

      Scots still back the Union 51% to 49% with YouGov Times Scotland poll tonight despite Brexit

      https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1169024647435902976?s=20

    134. Thepnr says:

      @HYUFD

      Talk about clutching at straws while your party and government implode. You really are a bit of a tit, silly wee boy ain’t yeh.

    135. K1 says:

      Isn’t it interesting and utterly hypocritical of Bawheid and his chief whip to remove 21 Tory MP’s just before a GE that he said he didn’t want?

      Think on it…why? Cummings is a conniving piece of excrement and they are gaming this whole thing.

      Not one of those who went against the whip during May’s votes in relation to Brexit were ever deselected, though they were threatened. But they happily and immediately set about doing just that to those that rebelled this evening.

      This opens the door to the entryist Tories, formelly UKIP and Brexit party wannabe’s to become the selected Tory candidates at the GE, in other words it does ensure if Bawheid wins, which I’ve no doubt their internal polling shows they will, that they will have ‘loyal’ and total Brexit fanatics in Westminster ensuring a majority to pursue the the sell off of UK assets and services is as smooth as possible.

      Make no mistake, they gamed this and they know exactly what they are doing, why anyone in Scotland would want to remain a part of this utterly corrupt system is beyond me.

      If we don’t get out when this last opportunity in our lifetime arises we are all totally fucked.

    136. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      HYUFD @ 00:41,

      This is before an indy campaign even starts, you dullard!

      And by the time we are finished with blocking your madness in the English Parliament, you and your countrymen and women will be glad to see the back of us.

      I really don’t know why you bother on here. Is your self-esteem that fragile you dread the loss of us?

    137. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Thepnr

      I’ve been in England more than a few times in the past couple of years.

      Brexit is quite popular among the common herd, they are in the main not stupid, nor are they easily frightened by self-serving doom-mongers and they are always ready and willing to change their voting habits to punish those who they believe have sold them short.

      They will not fall for the guff that the bulk of the Scottish electorate have been in the habit of swallowing when the chips are down.

      When they next go to the polls they will not be going there to thank the “woke” parties for saving them from themselves.

      P.S. I voted remain, to drive an ideological wedge between Scotland and England … the only other valid reason for doing so … would be fear of being punished by a bunch of Globalist Bastards for throwing a spanner in the workings of their machine.
      (You won’t believe me but that encapsulates all other reasons that anyone can think of).

    138. Thepnr says:

      @Col.Blimp IV

      I have no interest in a single word you say because it comes across as bollocks, might as well make that clear now.

    139. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Thepnr

      You are heading towards a cliff an the ground between you and the edge is littered with banana skins.

    140. chicmac says:

      Poll tracking by Yougov shows that REMAIN has been in the lead since July 2017, more than two years ago.

      Other analysis shows that well over 100 constituencies which were LEAVE majorities in 2016 are now REMAIN majorities.

      Why do we never here about this in the innumerable MSM discussions on BREXIT?

    141. chicmac says:

      hear

    142. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      chicmac @ 01:20,

      Aye, and moreover the Brexit demagogues (and at least some of their followers) know it fine well, which is why they’re so desperate to avoid a re-run referendum, all the while cynically claiming to implement “the will of the people”.

      The other major strand of their outrageous mendacity is their “easy technological fix” to the Irish Border Issue (and any other border besides). If they really had one, they would need have none of their very evident fear of a backstop provision. The EU27 leaders challenged BoJo to come up with The Answer in the 30 days then left, and if he had done so it would have been “deal done”. Shoulda-been-a dawdle, according to the Leaver fantasists, but it doesn’t exist except in the pages of the fairy tales they spin to the public.

      The Leaver agenda is a house built on sand, and the longer this absurdist farrago persists, the greater becomes apparent the extent of their manipulative folly. No wonder they are in such a desperate hurry to have it done.

    143. Liam says:

      What’s this talk of the 14th and 15th of October as the date of any GE? I thought GEs were held on a Thursday.

      The 14th is a Tuesday. the 15th Wednesday.

    144. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Incidentally, if any of you want to see the full heroes/rogues gallery of the HoC vote, you can find it online at:

      https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/711

    145. Breeks says:


      dadsarmy says:
      4 September, 2019 at 12:32 am
      I get the feeling BoJo is being hung out to dry by, well, everybody, basically.

      After dumping 20 MP’s he needs for a majority, it would seem Boris Johnson is even being hung out to dry by Boris Johnson. Even he’s not that stupid.

      Rebuffed by Europe, hemmed in by Remainers, Johnson can’t get an election soon enough to have his agenda emboldened by a raft of radical Brexit Party MP’s. An influx of angry populism is the only way Brexiteers can break the deadlock, and especially under Corbyn, the pro-Remain lobby has no such influx of fresh momentum to muster.

      A General Election will only strengthen the grip of the Right Wing protofascists by weeding out their doubters and replacing them with Brexit Party Brownshirts, whereas across the floor their opposition will be a glass jawed amalgam of No Brexit advocates / No No Deal Brexit advocates / and whatever flotsam and jetsam expelled from the Tories which somehow secures a seat after being deselected as Tories and reselected as Lib Dem Tories and “everybody” embracing their inner Corbynism.

      This is a trap for the SNP. Scotland’s leverage over Brexit looks increasingly forlorn, and insipid pedestrian plans for a Gold Standard Referendum sometime after Brexit must have the BritNat Establishment laughing up its sleeve. We are gifting them a Free Pass for Brexit instead of assembling a myriad of Constitutional roadblocks every inch as obdurate as the Northern Irish Backstop. The Brexiteers can’t believe their luck the SNP are so obliging to park Scotland up a quiet cul-de-sac until after this Brexit unpleasantness has gone away.

      Every time I hear the BritNat media referring to “The Country’s” Constitutional crisis, I think of our own wee Scottish Constitutional crisis and our own anaemic leadership which shuts its down in the name of democracy. What kind of nation is so comfortable and content to be an afterthought?

      I really do fear Scotland’s only hope to escape the catastrophic tsunami of Brexit is an emergency Constitutional interdiction and a redoubtable defence of our sovereignty, but we are pissing away the opportunity for reasons I truly cannot fathom, and dare not articulate my suspicions.

    146. Dr Jim says:

      Apparently when Youguv compiled this poll on the question of Independence for Scotland in the straight question YES or NO there were amazingly no don’t knows, but when asked about a few years time there were don’t knows

      The people asked in this poll were exraordinarily positive about one question but not the other which I do find odd

      It reminds me of a poll I saw about 6 months ago on Scottish Independence where they asked the the question of Independence on a UK wide basis and came up with very similar results to this poll (England Wales Northern Ireland? about Scottish Independence?)

      If the polling really is that close then one wonders why the UK governments David Lidington refused to release the result of their poll on the same subject claiming it was not in the public interest, until it was leaked from his office that the UK guv poll showed 57% YES to Independence

      Polls and Scotland, you gotta laugh because the only polls they will ever show accurately are party polls because that affects England and the public there have to be manipulated into the right voting patterns whereas in Scotland the right voting pattern is NO NO NO NO NO NO

    147. Dr Jim says:

      Just remembered Youguv doesn’t poll under 18s, so on the subject of Independence that may have distorted the poll somewhat for as we know support for Independence in that 16-17 year old group is around 68%, and of course EU nationals will be allowed to vote in the Independence referendum and support in that group is even higher than the teenagers, making a very rough estimate of around the actual last known figure of 54% YES

      Legislation is now making its way through parliament for these groups of people who are always missed from polls to be included and to vote legally in Scotland

      Its all a bit like when we watch the HOC when Ian Blackford stands to speak the cameras cut away to some nob *journalist* in the newsroom because to England, Scotland and anything pertaining to Scotland is of no interest to the English, because after all they are the UK and all the rest of us are the colonies

      Except when it comes to Scotland removing the cash machine and changing the pin number, then Scotland becomes an issue of Love Hate Contempt Fear Panic, but always lesser mortals

      Ask the Irish, there’s not a soul of them wouldn’t see England burn, they’re very straitforward in their opinions of that country and it’s people, they draw no distinction and are not polite in pointing it out as they teach their children at their mothers knees the history

    148. Dr Jim says:

      Just checked Professor Poultice who says support for Independence in remain is 57% which is up ten points on last year and given that the good Prof lies for the Union you can probably add some more for good measure

    149. Sinky says:

      Good You Gov poll in Times Scotland seat projection for Westminster SNP 51 Lib Dems 4 Tory 3 Red Tory 1 Labour 0.

      This poll should be sent to every UK broadcaster, paper review etc or goes back to studio when Ian Blackford gets up to speak and refuses to have a rep from the SNP as the third largest party at Westminster on their programmes / panels.
      Even better results for Holywood with good pro indy majority.

      However still 51 No and 49 Yes on indy ref question.

    150. Terry says:

      @breeks.

      You post resonated. We need to do something. And fast. Although Joanna cherry gives me hope.

      I keep wondering what Alex would do in the same position

    151. Bobp says:

      Dr Jim 2.56am. Good post dr Jim. And fortunately for the large majority of the Irish, what they dont have lurking among them in top jobs, their media, legal establishment etc, is the cancer of unionism.

    152. manandboy says:

      IS BORIS JOHNSON PLANNING ON ‘KILLING’ AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND?

      http://archive.is/Tr2ja

      This story of a woman in an abusive marriage who does everything right, but ends by being murdered by her husband who shoots her after the police do nothing about his gun.

      In the abusive relationship between Scotland and England, Nicola is determined also ‘to do everything right’. So far, it’s having the same effect, with Scotland in real danger of losing Independence at the hands of an unstable and threatening Tory Government led by a PM capable of any treachery and who is a serial liar.

      “Julie Douib tried to do everything right. She left her abusive partner. She reported his violence to police at least a dozen times. After he forced her to give up custody of their two children for the weekend, she told police that he had a licence for a gun and that she was afraid he would shoot her.

      “Madame, I am sorry,” the officer replied, according to Douib’s father, “but his license cannot be taken away unless he points the gun at you”. He did so 48 hours later and fired twice, hitting Douib in her chest and arms. “He killed me,” she said with her last breath, said Maryse Santini, the downstairs neighbour who found her.”

    153. starlaw says:

      Not Happy with Sky News. Sop subscriptions to Sky, they will take heed far quicker than Government supported BBC will.

    154. Colin Alexander says:

      Scotland voted Remain.

      The SNP complains about Scotland being dragged out of the EU against her will. Well done the SNP for respecting democracy.

      England and Wales voted Leave. The SNP campaigns to stop England and Wales leaving too. Where is the respect for the EU-ref vote there? Where is the SNP’s mandate from the people of England and Wales for this SNP campaign?

      We already have a 3x electoral mandate for indyref and a Scot Parl confirmation.

      Is the SNP going to seek ANOTHER mandate for indyref at the (expected) GE? hahahaha.

      Is the SNP going to seek a mandate from the people of Scotland to oppose EU-exit for England and Wales? hahaha.

      As long as the SNP can continue dangling the indy carrot on a very long stick, that keeps indy out of reach, while they run the Empire’s Scotland colony. Business as usual for the devolution SNP.

    155. hackalumpoff says:

      See Nana’s links here:

      https://indyref2.space/nanas-links-2/

    156. Old Pete says:

      Was at an SNP meeting of our branch last night, how are we definitely going to obtain Independence even if we get 50 MP’s no one could say for sure. Seems we might demand another section 30 from Boris and co and how we deal with ‘now is not the time’ the best they come up with is to call in the United Nations to support us ? Surely to God the SNP have a better way forward than this ? I have voted SNP all my life. I remember years ago expecting Independence with the SNP gaining a majority of the Scottish MP’s being enough to achieve it. But even if we win 56 MP’s apparently that’s not good enough now ? I need to tell voters a clear pathway forward if we are refused our Independence by the London Government. For the umpteenth time can someone give me a convincing way forward if the English government say ‘Naw’ ?

    157. Frank Gillougley says:

      Old Pete,

      In response to your excellent question, my understanding to date in a word, would be, NO, or as father Ted would have said, ‘Now that’d be a constitutional matter, Dougal.’

      And on the smaller matter of the legality of prorogation in relation to Brexit, Lord Doherty decides at 10 this morning. I am not optimistic.

    158. manandboy says:

      Nicola may know everything she needs to know. She may also know precisely what needs to be done.

      The problem the Independence movement has, is that we don’t know that Nicola knows.

      The reason for that is because she hasn’t told us.

      We need a clear explanation, excluding strategy details if necessary, of the plan to gain Independence.

      We don’t need to be the only British Colony ever to regain independence using the ‘gold standard’.

      Boris Johnson suspends the Westminster Parliament and promises to ignore the law in order to force through a No deal Brexit. And the Scottish government seems to think he is going to play the Independence game by the rules?

      Will someone at Holyrood stop dreaming and please get a grip.

    159. Heart of Galloway says:

      Breeks@2.31am

      You are nothing if not consistent in your miserablist defeatism. You have been playing this meaningless refrain for a long time now, to what purpose I have no idea.

      Mark my words, in the almost inevitable upcoming election, the SNP’s manifesto will be a “Claim of Right” manifesto, reaffirming that power to decide Scotland’s future rests with the people.

      Ian Blackford again reiterated this morning that Scotland’s overwhelming decision to remain in the EU will be upheld. And the SNP will “do or die” to achieve that.

      That’s obviously not good enough for you in your crusade to reduce the status of IndyRef2 to an irrelevant afterthought.

      I have said many times that the ScotGov has ALREADY established a diplomatic lifeline with the EU, much to the fear and loathing of the British nationalist establishment. And the full significance of that will be revealed the instant the U.K. exits.

      De jure we may dip out for a short time, de facto membership remains open to us pending a yes vote In IndyRef2.

      Your posturing reminds me of that grainy black and white footage of Neville Chamberlain returning from Munich waving a wee piece of paper and proclaiming peace in our time.

      His boasting has as much foundation in reality as your witherings.

      And while I’m at it, I don’t see any Brexit Party MPs – Farage will ally with Johnson behind a no- deal Brexit.

    160. Sinky says:

      Call Kaye discussing do you want an election and Indyref2.
      Being discussed on BBC Radio Scotland Morning Call at 9 a.m.
      Contact details

      Phone 0500 92 95 00

      Sms 80295

      Email morningcallscotland [at] bbc [dot] co [dot] uk

      Facebook http://www.facebook.com/bbcradioscotland

      Twitter @bbcradioscot

      Email morningcallscotland [at] bbc [dot] co [dot] uk
      .

    161. Colin Alexander says:

      Old Pete

      Read Breeks, Craig Murray, Peter A Bell and my comments, to name but a few that been answering that very question:

      The answer is: exercising Scottish sovereignty. The sovereignty of the people.

      Sadly, the SNP have gone down the” “sovereignty” of UK Parliament” based on England’s Sovereign”.

      The dead-end road of colonial servitude from the devolution SNP.

    162. Colin Alexander says:

      Heart of Galloway

      Can you not see the hypocrisy of the SNP in demanding the EU-Ref Remain vote must be respected (for Scotland), at the same time they seek to overrule England and Wales’ Leave vote by the power of Westminster sovereignty?

    163. dadsarmy says:

      What Sturgeon actually said of course:

      “I can confirm today that, during the passage of the Bill, we will seek agreement to the transfer of power that will put the referendum beyond legal challenge.”

      “beyond legal challenge”

      https://www.snp.org/nicola-sturgeons-speech-on-the-programme-for-government/

      And it’s worth noting the intervention in the Cherry case by the ScotGov in the person of Wolffe who has been making progress as they say. I haven’t been able to find a copy of his submission unfortunately.

    164. Capella says:

      Call Kaye is asking us whether we want an election or Indyref2 next on R4.

    165. Capella says:

      Call Kaye is asking us whether we want an election or Indyref2 next on R Scotland.

    166. hackalumpoff says:

      See the latest updateto Nana’s links here:

      https://indyref2.space/nanas-links-2/

    167. Capella says:

      Oops. apos – tried to cancel first post. It is on R Scotland and I see Sinky has all the details above at 8.48.

    168. Weechid says:

      Is Stu OK? It’s been 3 days? Not nagging – just concerned.

    169. call me dave says:

      Your call with Kaye!

      First call is a Scottish Brexiteer! The Country voted to leave..see needs a lesson in geography

      Second one’s father was a miner (like mine) labour thro and thro but wants to vote Tory. Go figure!

      So it goes!

    170. Breeks says:


      Terry says:
      4 September, 2019 at 7:31 am

      ….. Although Joanna cherry gives me hope.

      I keep wondering what Alex would do…

      Me too, but Joanna while thoroughly excellent in what she does seems to lack either confidence or ambition to really go for it. Maybe that’s only natural, maybe too, it’s orders from on high…

      It has been terribly understated how Joanna’s Revoke Article 50 court action has been a pivotal issue in how Brexit options have unfolded, and the money men behind Brexit must curse her capacity to confound their plans. Just imagine the Brexit debate we’d be having if Revoking Article 50 wasn’t a “kill switch” option.

      That’s brilliant as far as it goes, but we need to convert frustrating the BritNat Establishment into a material step forward for Scottish Indy.

      I must have asked the question 100 times, but why establish the UK can revoke Article 50 by unilateral sovereign prerogative, but then fail to establish whether a constitutionally sovereign Scotland could also exercise it’s own unilateral sovereign prerogative. Why stop short of the million dollar question?

      It looks promising that Joanna might succeed in challenging Johnson’s proroguing of Westminster, but looking beyond the bloody nose it might give Johnson, what actual purchase does it secure in the real world? Four extra days of debate?

      If it was just about four days of debate, why does Scotland’s Lord Advocate want in on the action?

      But I like Joanna. She is “up to something”. She is using Scottish Courts and Scots law to secure, for want of a better word, “petty” victories over the Westminster Establishment like an olden day whaler setting the first harpoon into it’s unsuspecting whale. The barb’s not fatal by itself, ….but it is only the beginning and the whale is already doomed.

    171. Lenny Hartley says:

      Liam, the Thursday is an Orthodox Jewish holiday and they are not allowed to vote on that date.

    172. Scott says:

      This from Eton 2011 I hope it gets a good airing it just shows what these people are like.

      https://on.rt.com/a11b

    173. Sinky says:

      Radio Scotland phone in dominated by Brexiteers who only represent under one third of Scottish voters.

    174. Weechid says:

      “Lenny Hartley says:
      4 September, 2019 at 9:33 am

      Liam, the Thursday is an Orthodox Jewish holiday and they are not allowed to vote on that date.”

      Are you telling me that we can’t have a vote on a particular date because of the cultural superstition of a group of people? That’s bloody madness.

    175. Breeks says:


      Heart of Galloway says:
      4 September, 2019 at 8:47 am

      Mark my words, in the almost inevitable upcoming election, the SNP’s manifesto will be a “Claim of Right” manifesto, reaffirming that power to decide Scotland’s future rests with the people…

      Sigh. Can somebody with more patience than I explain to Heart of Galloway the point I’ve been trying to make since 2016 when the SNP conspicuously DIDN’T back up the “Claim of Right” constitutionally sovereign aspect of Scotland’s Remain mandate, but instead arbitrarily set it to one side to promote a UK Soft Brexit instead.

      If they’d picked up that particular cudgel in 2016 rather than dithering about until 2020, our European citizenship might never have been placed in jeopardy, and the recognised ascendency of our Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty would already have marked it’s third anniversary by now, and an Independent Scotland would be looking at Brexit in the rear view mirror, but as a sovereign EU Nation, with three years peace of mind rather than anxiety, and a similar period of North Sea production filling our coffers rather than Westminster’s.

    176. Lenny Hartley says:

      WeeChild, you ever seen an election in the UK on a Sunday?

    177. robertknight says:

      Indy is for the taking if the SNP leadership take the opportunity of a UK GE to stand on a single issue platform of ‘A vote for the SNP is a vote for Independence’.

      WM will NEVER grant a Section 30 Order and the present Brexit cluster-f*** is the perfect opportunity to persuade voters that the Union is a busted flush.

      In 2015 the SNP polled 50% of the votes cast and won 95% of Scottish seats at WM.

      Given 45% voted Yes in 2014, 50% voted SNP in 2015 and 62% voted Remain in 2016, with Yes/No now neck and neck, there’s never been a better chance to get over the line with >50% of votes cast and >50% of seats.

      IndyRef2 is in the gift of WM and there appears to be no Plan B if “now is not the time” persists as the stock answer. I suspect the UKSC would soon put down any legislative attempt on the part of the SG/SP to circumvent perpetual refusals by WM for a Section 30 Order. WM remains the Sovereign Parliament and whilst legislation making Holyrood permanent may exist, no UK Govt. can be bound by the actions of its predecessor and a ‘suspension’ as opposed to outright abolition of Holyrood is perfectly feasible if WM felt so inclined.

      For all the reasons outlined previously as to the problems with IndyRef2, (Gift of WM, meddling by the Electoral Commission, outgunned re. campaign funding i.e reliance on Weirs, MSM über-bias, dubious postal vote returns, shenanigans at the counts, rent-a-mobs from Ulster, impending court case for AS, etc.), to miss the opportunity to go all out for Indy would be… well, nothing short of calamitous on the part of the SNP leadership.

      Forget IndyRef2. We’re still in the EU. Now is the time!

    178. Frank Gillougley says:

      re doherty – so its a naw then

    179. Abulhaq says:

      England is engaged in political civil war. Scotland is marginal. However, as in the historic English Civil War will inevitably be dragged into the alien fray with the traditional rather unpleasant consequences.
      If the Scots have any ‘backbone’ left they need to start manifesting it now.
      Meddling in English affairs and the reverse has always signalled bad news for Scotland.
      This situation needs handling with consummate skill and understanding of the emerging new political culture.
      Rees-Mogg reclining like a Roman consul speaks volumes.
      Do we have the nous to match it.

    180. call me dave says:

      Close but no cigar. Case will probably go to appeal

    181. Effijy says:

      UKaye Adams show has some scary half wits on it.
      Frank from Bearsden was Labour now Tory and Boris lover.

      He wants the Fascist Westminster Tory Farce Fest to continue,
      No voice for Scotland and let the PM who lodged his hatred of the
      Scots in print do what he will to Scotland???

      Boris said that he would always invest a Pound in England
      Before Scotland and yet have Scots saying they agree and are
      All for it?

      How the **** can these people claim to have 2 brain cells to rub together?

    182. call me dave says:

      Lost the link but there is a discussion about court expenses
      Don’t know what judge said.

    183. kapelmeister says:

      Paul Masterton didn’t vote with the rebels, citing personal persuasion from the Clown himself. Aye, had the prospect of a junior ministerial post dangled in front of him no doubt.

    184. Capella says:

      I’d forgotten why I never listen to Call Kaye. But I remembered. Stuck it out till 10.00 then had to do something more interesting like hanging out the washing. I can’t be bothered listing all the failings this item has. We all know them already.

      Just heard that Judge Doherty has ruled that Boris Johnston was acting within the law. But which law?

    185. Marcia says:

      Sinky says:
      4 September, 2019 at 9:36 am
      Radio Scotland phone in dominated by Brexiteers who only represent under one third of Scottish voters.
      ————————-
      The producers fall within that third.

    186. jfngw says:

      @Effijy

      Don’t listen to Radio Scotland news/current affairs programmes, you might as well go below the line at the Herald or Scotsman, they may not even be real individuals but a co-ordinated group. It’s better to leave BritNat broadcasters to the BritNats, let shout at themselves that independence is not coming.

    187. Daisy Walker says:

      The message for the Scottish electorate should be – that non of the English parties at Westminster can be trusted to keep a Section 30 order. They do not negotiate in good faith.

      This is crystal clear on the home front and on the international stage.

      We should not seek nor waste time on a worthless piece of paper.

      Attack, and let WM try to defend its ‘honour’. Let them ‘justify’ S30 procedure.

    188. Fireproofjim says:

      Re the new Times poll showing 49% Yes to Independence and 51% No.
      1/ We have not even started to campaign yet.
      In 2014 we started about 28% and pulled up to 45% at the end of the campaign. We can certainly pick up a few percentage points with a good campaign.
      2/ The above poll does not include 16 and 17 year olds who are polling about 69% Yes. This is worth at least a couple of percentage points in an Independence referendum.
      3/ The leaked government poll showed 57% Yes.
      It all points to a pretty firm Yes position right now. And to quote some other party, Things can only get better.

    189. Dr Jim says:

      Once the legislation has gone through our parliament in Scotland my understanding is a date will be announced for a referendum and force a response from Westminster to deny acceptance, which they won’t

      Only this morning Boris Johnson reiterated his opposition to a referendum being held, note the word opposition and not *refusal to allow*

      So Scotland will have its sectarian vote, Woops sorry, referendum, as a keen observer noted on BBC Call Kaye this morning because in that man’s opinion the only people in Scotland who can possibly be left objecting to Scottish Independence are those who feel their allegiance is to the the *English Crown* and all that it stands for, and the notion that truthfully in these people’s hearts they would not vote for a right wing Boris Johnson style England but they feel they have no choice because in their minds an Independent Scotland is a Catholic Scotland, which of course is complete and utter balderdash but nevertheless they will support England’s domination of Scotland in order that such a thing can never happen, they believe it that fiercely

      Of course this is more an adult problem in Scotland now as the younger element in our country are casting off the whole sectarian agenda, they just don’t like it and good for them too

      People in certain areas of Scotland feel they are immune from such things as sectarianism but I’m afraid to say that’s more of a wish than a fact, even in the leafy suburbs of Perthshire and other *nice places* it festers in their golf clubs and bowling clubs but you’d never see it or hear it publicly because that would give the game away of being nice upstanding people who don’t indulge in *that kind of behaviour* that’s all for the central belt don’t you know

      Throughout my lifetime I have worked in every social club football club bowling club Orange club in Scotland and I could list every one of their beliefs and behaviours because the guys in the band are always asked and even demanded that they play the right sort of music for the venue under threat of *you’ll not be back if you don’t*

      There are places the length and breadth of Scotland where I was banned from working because I refused to do it no matter which side of the divide, and the musical agents who supply the bands to these venues are not slow in phoning you up and making that abundantly clear

      It’s going to be a numbers game between idiots and sensible people, it always has been, let’s hope the idiots follow the yellow brick road and find a brain

    190. galamcennalath says:

      Have a read of the relationships here regarding Leave, government, BBC, newspapers, far right. I would bet this is just the tip of the iceberg.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/FFbpe/status/1168264347900108800

    191. Dan says:

      From Rev’s twitter feed sidebar on top right of this page for those that missed it.

      The tangled web they weave, of those that want to leave…

      https://twitter.com/FFbpe/status/1168264347900108800

    192. Patrick Roden says:

      RE: Poll showing 49% for Yes.

      Surely evidence for anyone who has been pushing the SNP leadership to have the indyRef2 vote straight away?

      I have spoken to several people about Brexit and although they know it’s a mess, they aren’t sure how it will effect them individually and even if they did, they wouldn’t be sure what to do about it.

      We need to hold for a little while longer, until ‘Brexit Bites’ then we need to let people know, using one-to-one conversations with our friends and families, about how independence gets us out of this mess.

      And..as always, wait till we see the data-sets from this poll, to see if it has been ‘ever-so-slightly’ skewed, to suit the UK’s agenda.

    193. Weechid says:

      “Lenny Hartley says:
      4 September, 2019 at 9:59 am

      WeeChild, you ever seen an election in the UK on a Sunday?”
      I’d have no objection to an election on a Sunday or any day of the week. I just don’t see why superstition should have any say in the governance of a country and pandering to any of it gives it legitimacy.

    194. Capella says:

      @ Dan – and following up that link, here’s another:

      Never seen anything like it

      All of Parliament sq and whitehall shut down. Thousands of police lining every pavement. Barriers everywhere.

      This is how martial law starts.

      https://twitter.com/charliejrome/status/1169178451129114624?s=20

    195. Scozzie says:

      Rees Mogg sofa surfing in the Commons someone ought to sanction his benefits!

    196. call me dave says:

      J.R.Mogg has been doing that for a long time but up in the higher benches and not seen usually but doing it next to the dispatch box on the front bench was a bit silly. 🙂

    197. call me dave says:

      Boris up for his first PMQs
      Best on parliament TV commons if you have a computer.. errr!

      🙂

    198. Thepnr says:

      For FMQ’s Theresa May chooses to sit between Ken Clarke and Antoinette Sandbach who are both rebels that lost the whip yesterday and are no longer Tories.

      Maybe she’s trying to tell us something 🙂

    199. Dr Jim says:

      Funny decision by the courts to say Yes what Boris Johnson is doing in some circumstances might be illegal but we’re going to say that it’s legal today

      Does this ruling mean that after he’s done it they might decide it was illegal right enough, but just in time to be too late

      Why didn’t they just say we’re bottling it on this have a nice day with it somewhere else

    200. call me dave says:

      Boris is flying by the seat of his pants here, a scoundrel.
      All words in no particular order, a blunderbuss of bluster. 🙁

    201. Elmac says:

      @ Dr Jim

      There are only 2 laws in Scotland. Law No 1 is for the general public and law No 2 is for the establishment. Post independence we should abolish law No 2 and make life so much easier for our legal brethren.

    202. Jack Murphy says:

      Ruth Davidson resigned as Tory Branch Leader citing family reasons.

      Last night ALL of Scotland’s Tory MPs supported Boris Johnson in his mad rush to destroy England and Wales with Scotland as an add-on.

      Ruth Davidson saw the train hurtling down the track at 100mph with her friend David Mundell MP on board and decided to jump !

      I don’t believe in coincidence.

    203. Breeks says:


      call me dave says:
      4 September, 2019 at 11:55 am

      J.R.Mogg has been doing that for a long time but up in the higher benches and not seen usually but doing it next to the dispatch box on the front bench was a bit silly. ?

      I know it’s light hearted, but this is the same Rees-Mogg who called a consultant neurosurgeon a disgrace for scaremongering about the risks of Brexit impacting upon people who are going to die after not getting their medicine.

      Rees-Mogg is a poisonous, arrogant narcissist who shouldn’t be let anywhere near a position of authority. Stick him in a black uniform with a German accent and with minimal licence, you probably know all you need to know about prewar Germany when the Nazis casually at first, started to condemn and lock up intellectuals.

    204. Thepnr says:

      From the BBC.

      Brexit: Slouching Jacob Rees-Mogg lampooned in memes

      Arrogant twat gets lampooned.

      http://archive.fo/CVI8C

    205. call me dave says:

      I agree that J. R. Mogg is a repugnant tory who cares for nothing except the trappings of power. His protestations about power for the people is a fraud.

      Probably does have a brown shirt tucked in his bottom drawer ready for his batman to lay out on the bed at the first opportunity.

      I only pointed out that he had a habit of ‘lounging’ and made a mistake by overtly displaying it where he did on the front bench.

    206. call me dave says:

      Oh!
      Clapping in the house as Boris is slayed on his racist history of past remarks. The speaker endure it.

      Bad day for Boris all round at PMQs.

    207. Thepnr says:

      @call me dave

      Maybe even 7 brown shirts, one for every day of the week.

    208. Iain mhor says:

      The usual media reports about the Cherry/CoS case will be that the proroguing process is lawful – but that’s not really the case at all, nor the ruling – It was about whether it was ‘judiciable’
      If the finding is that it is not judiciable, then there is no recourse to the law. Ergo whether it is lawful or unlawful is irrelevant – which was in fact the Lord Docherty’s finding today.

      For it to be reported that the CoS found the process at the same time to be “lawful”, it would have to be, by definition, judiciable. So an ill chosen turn of phrase. I believe the words used by Lord Docherty was “no contravention of the rule of law”.
      However, that interesting and ambiguous turn of phrase by Lord Docharty, leads us also to the the matter of ‘vires’ and having the ‘power’. The finding today was effectively that the prorogation is not judiciable, and that yet, Bojo (or the office of the PM) has the prerogative power. Though the quick, will already be asking “under which judiciary is it not judiciable and under which judiciary does prerogative power run”? The rule of law which operates on Parliament is English Law.

      For the MSM (and others) to report that Lord Docherty and the CoS ruled it “lawful” is a bit of stretch – to imply that it is lawful under Scots Law, is an even bigger stretch. Throw in that the ‘vires’ is not applicable here and any such prerogative power stems from Engish Law and on such semantics legal appeals are made.
      Such an appeal will probably be that Lord Docharty’s finding, errs in Scots Law, but not in English Law.

      Tl;dr
      He fudged it and deferred to English Law (the Law of the UK Parliament and Crown), he could do little else, in order that it didn’t open up the age old constitutional issue which has never been resolved and couldn’t be in the time frame required. Whether it will ultimately further add to a plethora of ‘constitutional case law’ remains to be seen.
      It was always going to be difficult case to bring, as it is constitutional at heart, which was really the intention from the outset: To rule a constitutional issue, purely within Scots law and within a Scottish Court.
      Lord Docharty wasn’t going to be bounced into that – no Judge wants to go down that rabbit hole, unfortunately – but it was interesting nontheless. Though it may yet drive another nail into Scotland’s constitutional coffin.

    209. Capella says:

      @ Iain mhor – How can English Law be the law governing the UK Parliament?

    210. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Iain Mhor, thanks for that, very interesting. Since the result was always going to be sent on for appeal, we can hardly be surprised at Lord Docharty, for passing it on.

      I remember a group of anti nuclear protesters took a case to the local JP court on the west cost – they argued that Nuclear Weapons are Weapons of Mass Destructon and so are unlawful. And they won.

      Donald Dewar – laughed off the result – saying matters of such importance would not and could not be decided in a wee court like the JP court.

      At which point I lost any respect I have for him, if the law stands, it should stand up – in the streets, and in the wee courts too. Otherwise it is just a sham.

    211. Brian Powell says:

      Talking Up Scotland has gone from the list of Scottish political pages above.

      That’s a pity, it’s a good link I thought. Can still go there but it was good to go straight from this page to there.

    212. Cactus says:

      Evenin’ Daisy, how ye doin’ 😉

      “The EU have briefed tonight that they have grave reservations that the British Government is backtracking on the withdrawal agreement, and has not put forward any – old or new – solutions to the Irish Border. Not dealing in good faith.”

      Yeah, it’s good to keep track of what the EU are saying in response too.

      Anybuddy know of any good sites for the Wingers to bookmark?

      Nice spike, Rev

      Cheers

    213. Gary says:

      My worry isn’t about the party failing, Stu. My worry is about it SUCCEEDING!

      No such party will bring votes in from Labour or Conservative or LibDem. If it would I’d be right behind it, honestly.

      It will take votes from existing supporters of Scottish Independence away from parties which support Indy. Predominantly SNP but perhaps Green votes too.

      I can’t see ANY benefit of doing this, at all. Better having a larger coherent party representing Indy at Holyrood than several smaller ones. And, no offence, the press wold have a field day with you. Unionist rags would drag up every lie ever told about you and print it as true. If feeling litigious you’d never be away from the courts, you’d need DEEP pockets to defend your good name and by the time you won, you’d have lost anyway – the public read the headlines, not the tiny withdrawal articles some weeks later.

      I don’t doubt your sincerity in thinking about this or of your wanting to do your best for the country you love – and there’s few I could say that about.

      I hope you will ultimately decide NOT to do this and fight from within the existing movement for the changes you want to see.

      You have been, and remain, a respected voice for those of us who want independence for Scotland. Despite what they might say publicly, politicians of ALL parties read this blog to keep their finger on the pulse of the Indy movement. You’ve NEVER sugar coated anything and this is why you have always been different from other news sources and politicians especially.

      Your role in the Indy movement is crucial, and moving directly into the political field would end that. Essentially no one trust politicians but they DO trust YOU.

      Stick with us and don’t split the Indy vote…please!!



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