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Wings Over Scotland

The positive face of the Union

Posted on November 18, 2013 by

Sadly we don’t have the ability to capture video here. Or rather, we don’t have the technical knowhow, or the time to acquire it. That’s not usually a problem, because we can capture audio and often other people more savvy than us will archive video clips before they vanish into the inaccessible vaults of broadcasting forever.


Sometimes, though, sound alone just doesn’t properly convey the tone of something. And since we suspect the seven-minute interview Alistair Darling gave BBC News this lunchtime will never be seen in full again [EDIT: Yes it will!], as rolling news doesn’t usually appear on iPlayer, we thought we had to capture it some other way.

The content of the interview wasn’t worth preserving. Ostensibly a reaction to today’s report from the Institute of Fiscal Studies, it was just the same old same old from Darling, carefully dodging the point (in so much as it was put to him at all) that an independent Scotland wouldn’t have to follow the same spending plans and priorities as the UK, and that therefore his insistence that it would have to cut services or raise taxes to reduce its deficit is a straw man.

But it was perhaps the definitive record of the “Better Together” chairman’s attitude. We’ve observed for months the sheer fury the ex-Chancellor holds for the notion of Scotland running its own affairs like any other country, but even under extremely softball questioning like today’s he seems barely able to contain his rage at the thought that Scots would even dare to consider dissolving the Union.

From moment to moment his features contort into snarls, sneers, grimaces and glowers. The eyes flash with anger and the voice rises as the interviewer has the temerity to challenge him, even in the meekest of terms. The neck straightens and rises only to lunge forward in emphasis like a headbutt. The comedy eyebrows leap upwards as if cobras preparing to spit venom in the face of a mongoose.

Compared to the relaxed and affable screen presence of the First Minister, it’s startling and disturbing. As ever, we wonder why – if the No camp’s case is so positive and they’re so far ahead in the polls that victory is assured – he’s in such an awful temper.

You can listen to the interview by clicking the first picture. Scroll down these pics as it goes on and try to get the general ambience. For now, that’s the best we can do.









































Don’t have nightmares, folks.

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    265 to “The positive face of the Union”

    1. JLT says:

      That’s a lot of pictures.
      And a lot of rotten poses by Darling.
      Aye …the face of Better Together.

    2. Embradon says:

      Where are Fluck and Law when you need them. Come back Spitting Image – or maybe snarling in this case.

    3. JLT says:

      I just love this one from Gemma Tetlow…
      Gemma Tetlow, a programme director at the IFS and an author of the report, said: “An independent Scotland would face even tougher choices than those faced by the UK over the longer term.

      “In 2011/12, higher public spending per person in Scotland was more than matched by higher revenues from activity in the North Sea.
      However, over the long term, revenues from the North Sea will probably decline and official population projections suggest that the average age of the Scottish population will increase more rapidly than for the UK as a whole, putting greater upward pressure on many areas of public spending.
      As I said on a previous post, it seems that North Sea Oil is running out again this week, when last week, we were onto a £200 Billion pound bonanza.
      Seriously …do this lot never get tired of repeating the same inane drivel and lies?

    4. Les Wilson says:

      I always thought he was a sneaky dog, even going back to his post in Edinburgh Council. Confirmed my assessment of him in this interview apart from his drivel he is looking decidedly WUFF!! and getting WUFFER , all his success must be getting him down.!! (boy!)

    5. Thepnr says:

      Squeezing  out another big one Darling. Lie that is. Not surprised your face comforts so much.

    6. Paula Rose says:

      I presume the IFS accurately foretold of the financial crash, or are they all fresh out of Uni having discovered new laws of economics?

    7. cjmasta says:

      The man has an incredible knack for relentlessly waffling on without letting the interviewer get a word in edgeways. He must have an oxygen tank at his side so he can take a huge breath after not pausing to breathe for so long. His style does seem to be as coming across as very insistent and very angry always at the thought of losing his gravy train existence at our expense.

    8. Juteman says:

      His hair seems to have receded quite a lot over the last year.
      Do you think he headbuts the walls at night?

    9. Dan Vevers says:

      That rather reminded me of the facial contortions of Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars. Anyone else get that?

    10. muttley79 says:

      Darling has been like this for months.  What is going on?  He clearly is a man who knows that something has gone seriously wrong.  He is getting more and more agitated as the campaign goes on.  If he is like this with about 10 months still to go, want is he going to be like with a month to go?…

    11. wee folding bike says:

      Ohhh hey now, I was just going to tuck into a macaroni pie… that sort of thing could put me off my scoff.

    12. REV, in you think you ve goat problems no puttin up vidios  this  fecking  thing am uasin winna even load  up tae hear Darling  two days hard running ah canny  get intae  the  conversations properly  You  are a Devil  But  ah  like  you as  Major Bloodock  would say

    13. gordoz says:

      Simple Question – is this the face of a man you would trust with your money.
      The guys a real banker – keyboard keeps typing b when I press w for some reason ?

    14. iain taylor (not that one) says:

      My hunch is he’s misplaced some of his expenses chits. 

    15. Les Wilson says:

      Let’s be honest he sees the gravy train leaving the station. Sugar, no more house flipping, no more big expenses, no more double wages, and no ERMINE!

      No wonder he is angry, his life and that of very many who are grossly overpaid by a corrupt Westminster are going to really miss their high flying lifestyle. Oh I cannot wait to see the downfall of these “proud Scots ” They will be extinct soon. Who is going to weep for them?

    16. Marian says:

      Darling clearly thinks there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Westminster way, for he was beside himself with anger and fury during the interview on radio spitting words like tacks against independence and nothing else, but he gave the game away that he either hadn’t actually bothered to read the report or he was being politically selective, otherwise he would have been just as angry in light of the IFS criticisms of the unsustainable Westminster economy, and he would have acknowledged the recognition in the report that Scotland has an excellent opportunity to do things differently and better with independence.

      Darling clearly misses the whole point of independence as it’s intended to create a new smarter Scotland and not to create a Mark II Westminster based on the same old same old.

    17. gordoz says:

      Someone else has spotted this strange occurance with Darling

    18. Alistair Wilson says:

      Maybe he’d seen the latest from Clan Destiny Films on the contrast between the two campaigns.

    19. Robbie says:

       Serial house flipper Darling sure talks a load of bollocks.

    20. Ken500 says:

      Project fear

      Please some folk are having their tea.

    21. Gordon Smith says:

      The problem is even HE does not believe this shit anymore, just going through the motions for his salary.
      I suspect I see a sideways slide as a PPS(but he is Labour – forgot) or something to get him out of this job, and get a still brainwashed uberkeen replacement.
      It is so tiring watching thsi same shit day after day.

    22. Murray McCallum says:

      What a sad, pathetic little man Darling is. Given his track record in creating credit booms that led to economic devastation, why are Scots still listening to this bloke?
      It’s depressing that he is given air time, let alone a soft ride, as he preaches to us about financial prudence and risks.

    23. Macart says:

      I used to laugh at how some folks would use the term Bitter Together, but seriously Darling’s taking the joke too far. 😉

    24. Danny says:

      Can anybody in the know get a figure for how much tax is paid by Scots living and working in Scotland but pay their tax through an office in England.

    25. Faltdubh says:

      Darling will struggle when he appears on these debates next year. I’m sure he’ll end up against Salmond/Sturgeon at one point in it and he never comes across well. Stutters a lot too.
      Not that I’m perfect, but he’ll take a hiding in front of the media.

    26. Andy-B says:

      If you scroll down fast you can see his antics in motion, this clown actually believes the rubbish he spouts.
      For anyone wishing to read the IFS drivel.
      Imagine voting no and, having to look at his coupon on a regular basis, pass the sick bucket.

    27. gordoz says:

      Alistair Wilson
      Magic film – credit to all involved at Clan Destiny Films

    28. ronnie anderson says:

      Do we get a repeat at 6.30 news lol

    29. Shaun Milne says:

      I really don’t think anyone is stupid enough to take economic advice from Mr Darling.
      ‘What credibility would you have when you say ‘I don’t want to know about it. I don’t believe it would happen’.’ – Indeed Mr Darling, what credibility would you have when you don’t want to know about the many ways an Independent Scotland could be run differently and then keep pretending it won’t happen?
      Answers on the back of those eyebrows.

    30. braco says:

      Rev Stu,
      coincidentally came across this yesterday. The interview with Alistair Darling from  30 seconds  I think encapsulates your point very well.
      The fact that the treatment fails so badly with the other political leaders, again underlines the truth of your analysis of Alistair’s peculiar BetterTogether on screen persona.
      I wish someone could cut out his ‘interview’ from the others in a separate (independent?)  youtube clip, as it would be far, far more effective and could, i think, go viral.

    31. Marcia says:

      For the first time for a while, I listened to the BBC Scotland Newsdrive radio programme whilst in a friend’s car. The segment mentioned the doom laden report followed by a very short reply by John Swinney read by the newsreader, that in my view, seemed out of context. Then had to endure AD’s woe, woe and more woe spoken word. 5 times longer than the quote from John Swinney. My immediate thought was that these people got it wrong in 2008.

    32. Papadocx says:

      Darling Alistair is obviously on the hook from a past life and terrified we get independence and a look over the old treasury minutes. Big Gordy (his bestest pal) telt him “look Alistair it wiz awe richt when a left no 11. So wiz yon Scottish banks An aw thing. SLAB wiz ripplin, johan wiz clever and a page 3 girl fur the daily record. nae wunner yer lookin say worried man!”  Ye shid try and keep yer heed doon like jola and me and sty aff that f***** tele and hope they fur get us. 

    33. MajorBloodnok says:

      He looks like Father Ted having a fit.
      “OK, McDougall, one last time.  These ones are small, but the ones out there are far away.”

    34. naebd says:

      Uploaded to imgur just in case:

    35. Jimsie says:

      Every time Darling appears the YES campaign gets a boost. People associate him with incompetence having allowed the banks to collapse on his watch.

    36. HighlandMart says:

      Watched it just after your twitter post Rev.  Under incredibly weak questioning, he genuinely gets more and more flustered.  His continuous, repetitive dirge of soundbites actually grate your senses. 
      He is sounding pretty desperate these days. More of it please.

    37. Brotyboy says:

      Just watched the Clan Destiny video.  Ian Brotherhood; kudos to you, deeply impressive.  You’re a natural in front of the camera.

    38. Craiging_619 says:

      He looks like he’s just been asked to buy another round in Copenhagen.

    39. J. R. Tomlin says:

      You would think that someone whose campaign is supposedly ahead in the polls would be relaxed and affable and inviting opponents to come over to their side. His extreme anger is — interesting.

    40. jahoca says:

      Man, that’s horrific. Maybe he never got his porage this morning.

    41. gordoz says:

      Shocking stuff – lets hammer the YES campaign
      STV nail union jack to the mast – all IFS projections for next 50yrs taken as true statements of fact. Sounds like a Better Together broadcast to me.
      Scotland is fucked in other words, it will just die more slowly with the UK.
      Called getting yours in first  Bernard ?

    42. Ron Burgundy says:

      You can bet your bottom Dollar that Boothman will have Bird going large on this from Pacific Quay in 20 mins.
      Just watch and see if anyone has the brains or the honesty to say – hang on with independence we have a chance to remove from the Scottish Budget commitments
      # The huge debt repayments we have to fork out every year as our contribution to the massive UK national debt
      # Not losing £1.5 billion a year from Defence that they say we get but don’t but which is still allocated to Scotland’s tab.
      If you use the same economic modelling as at present you get like the IFS did the conclusions – but Scottish spending and income patterns will not be the same after independence –
      BUT WATCH FOR BOOTHMAN to factor that out of Bird’s script

    43. braco says:

      totally agree. 10 out of 10 Ianbrotherhood!
      by the way Brotyboy, is that a Lancia D50?

    44. Wingman 2020 says:

      Slip slidin’ away, slip slidin’ away
      You know the nearer your destination the more you’re slip sliding’ away. 

    45. Yodhrin says:

      Hilarious, it’s like watching an episode of Lie To Me; contempt, disgust, disgust, hatred, disgust, contempt, fear – seriously you could run them as a F.A.C.S. test, hah.

    46. Andy-B says:

      Good one,   Darling looks like he’s contorting his face, due to realising he’s forgotten to do a Jeremy Hunt, who’s a millionaire and claim for his paperclips, at 5p a whip, on his expenses sheet.

    47. I suspect Captain Darling was hamming it up because the IFS Report is so easy to challenge on its assumptions and conclusions.  For example, would an independent Scottish immigration policy not counter Scotland’s ageing population? How many young diaspora descendants would be keen to return to an independent Scotland? I know a few personally.
      On another note, only £500 and 14 Hrs to go for the Fear Factor Team to bring you Scotland Yet. Dig deep, folks.

    48. Stuart Black says:

      This abject apology for a man is a liar, plain and simple. Everyone reading Wings can put the case against the IFS, it’s not very long since Scott Minto dissected the IFS, see here.
      If we know, he knows. That performance made me want to go for a shower, to be perfectly honest. He has not a shred of credibility left in my eyes, hopefully the wider audience will be starting to realise this too. Fucking wretch.

    49. frankieboy says:

      I only looked at the pictures but can I have a stab at the dialogue? 10 Clearly’s, 5 don’t stack ups, 3 fiscal cliffs, too wee, too poor, too stupid, too old, too cauld, too rainy, too sunny, too far north, too much oil, too daft so listen to me I know better. Is that about it?

    50. Wingman 2020 says:

      Hello Darling my old friend
      I come to talk to you again
      Because a date thats softly creepin’
      up on you, while you are sleeping 
      And the vision that we planted in your brain
      Makes you look so pained
      We look forward to your silence

    51. Kenny Campbell says:

      BBC London currently highlighting predicted 9% rise in Income tax in Scotland….lol to love it. Report from IFS being treated as fact rather than opinion….Bloody hell its Captain Darling now…defending IFS…no less.

    52. Helpmaboab says:

      The phrase “A face like a skelped arse” comes to mind…

    53. MajorBloodnok says:

      Interesting how the ‘bombshells’ meant to blow the Independence case out of the water are increasing in frequency and kilo-tonnage prior to release of the White Paper.   There’ll be a lot more inaccurate shite like this next week, mark my words.
      And yet, by next year no-one will remember what the IFS report said, but the White Paper will be being discussed, particularly if it is sent to every household and is summarised and broken down for easy digestion.
      I think people are wise to the scare stories now – c’mon UK, BT and AD, what’s your positive vision for Scotland?

    54. Brotyboy says:

      braco says:

       Brotyboy, is that a Lancia D50?
      Alfetta; from the Museo Enzo Ferrari in Modena.  Still miss the Alfasud.

    55. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      For those with a track pad, if you jigg the images up and down fast enough ypu will see that Darling turns into demented Boris Johnson before your very eyes.
      Coincidence? I think not

    56. muttley79 says:

      I think people are wise to the scare stories now – c’mon UK, BT and AD, what’s your positive vision for Scotland?  
      We all know the answer to that one… 😀 😀 When is our Pravada like MSM going to ask that question? 

    57. Kev says:

      Just saw the IFS “Report” headlining the STV news, and despite the positive opportunities provided by independence highlighted within the report ( and pointed out in detail by Bernard Ponsonby later on) that didn’t seem to prevent them from filling the screen with the words “THE COST OF INDEPENDENCE”, why not OPPORTUNITIES instead of “Cost” or “Cost and Opportunities”…I am currently drafting a complaint, if anyone else wishes to do likewise you can find out where to send it here:

    58. frankieboy says:

      I only looked at the pictures but can I have a stab at the dialogue? 10 Clearly’s, 5 don’t stack ups, 3 fiscal cliffs, too wee, too poor, too stupid, too old, too cauld, too rainy, too sunny, too far north, too much oil, too daft so listen to me I know better. Is that about it?

    59. Richard Bruce says:

      Seriously! This is so bad, look at Frazer’s glee, is anyone going to rebut/argue against this?

    60. muttley79 says:

      “A highly respected think tank” according to Jackie Bird.  FFS here is uber-Unionist Douglas Fraser…Even a mention of Jam Tomorrow in a negative way about independence!

    61. braco says:

      lovely. Thought I saw side mounted fuel tanks, my mistake. Alfasud was a great wee car, but I am Lancia and you are Alfa, so we shouldn’t even be talking! Scottish independence is important and all that, but lets keep our priorities straight here.

    62. callum says:

      Douglas Fraser on Reporting Scotland is actually smirking about projecting fear suggesting that Scotland would need an 8% reduction in spending.  Surely this is illegal.  I’m fuming.
      And the next package is talking about the commonwealth games boom!  
      Surely Scots can see through this shit.  Surely.

    63. Another Union Dividend says:

      No broadcaster or newspaper has dared to mention that the IFS report is predicated on the OBR’s very poor record on North Sea Oil revenues, In 2010 OBR predicted oil this year at $86 but to-day;s figure is $108.55.
      Also Alistair talks about the “Respected” IFS but that’s not what he said previously when he claimed it was being politicised by the Tories.
      Again don’t expect BBC / STV /or Unionist MSM to mention any uncomfortable truths for the NO Scotland campaigners.

    64. Another Union Dividend says:

      Callum in this instance the STV coverage was even more biased than the BBC..

    65. schrodingers cat says:

      Alistair Wilson says:
      18 November, 2013 at 5:34 pm

      Maybe he’d seen the latest from Clan Destiny Films on the contrast between the two campaigns.
      brilliant stuff guys, i dunno who these guys are but they should be on the tv, especially the guy who made the prediction, You certainly inspired me, im off to start a yes newburgh campaign and get a video posted too. thanks very much for this, if im successful, maybe we can join up sometime

    66. muttley79 says:

      Watching today’s events being covered by STV and now BBC Scotland has confirmed one thing strongly for me.  Independence supporters need to get themselves off the internet and start doing practical stuff (I include myself in this).  Complaints are no good, they are going to be cheating and lying to the people of Scotland for the next 10 months.  We cannot do anything about the Pravada MSM in Scotland.  It is time to step things up.  It is time to get active folks (I know some are already)…

    67. Indy_Scot says:

      I had the misfortune of changing channel to see and hear Darling letting off like a bull in a china shop.
      I am convinced I heard the news presenter snigger as he ending the interview. It felt as if he was thinking, this man is a nutter. Just my opinion, but that’s how I read it.

    68. Training Day says:

      Pathetic from James Cook on BBC London. He asked the dweeb from the IFS ‘is independence a daft idea?’ It’s the normal state of affairs around the world, you serf! I look forward to the egregious little twerp asking John Swinney ‘is the Union a daft idea’ post WP publication. Fat chance.

      Our MSM really are a bunch of spineless, snivelling wretches.

    69. muttley79 says:

      @Another Union Dividend
      Again don’t expect BBC / STV /or Unionist MSM to mention any uncomfortable truths for the NO Scotland campaigners.  
      The No campaign have not been asked any difficult questions at all.  If we vote No then we are going to be fucked.

    70. Stuart Black says:

      How many times did he say the IFS was “independent”?

    71. naebd says:

      Deep breaths…

    72. schrodingers cat says:

      respect rev
      but sometimes the stuff btl is better

    73. muttley79 says:

      @Training Day
      We now know beyond any reasonable doubt that our MSM are as corrupt as you will find anywhere in the western world.  These people think (or profess to think) that being independent is not the natural state of a nation.  They simple do not want independence, and indeed loath the very idea of it.  The idea that you can trust somebody like Douglas Fraser is laughable.  The guy is on record as calling Salmond a dictator.  He hates independence with a passion.     

    74. alexicon says:

      You can contact STV and vent your spleen here.

    75. Stuart Black says:

      First class, Ian Brotherhood, well done. A star in the making, and I loved yer prediction. 🙂

    76. HandandShrimp says:

      Reminds me of a Sheryl Crow song
      If it makes you happy
      It can’t be that bad
      If it makes you happy
      Then why the hell are you so sad

    77. Training Day says:

      Aye, Muttley, those in our MSM have long since forfeited the right to call themselves jouirnalists. They are both an embarrassment and a disgrace. They are simply propagandists for hire, and clearly have no moral qualms about feeding us lies for the next ten months. Well, hell mend the bloody lot of them. They will be defeated, and they’ll be defeated convincingly by, as you rightly say, us getting more and more active and getting the facts direct to our fellow Scots. We simply must do this – a society post a No vote which effectively vindicates the lies of the MSM is a fearful prospect.

    78. Sandy Milne says:

      The respected think tank, or should that be thick tank, IFS has predicted falling oil revenues and an ageing population will mean increased taxes or deep spending cuts.
      Well, no shit Sherlock, and this wouldn’t happen with a continuation of the union?
      Who  would you trust to manage that scenario? A remote government in a city of 8 million people that can’t produce any food to feed them all, or produce a Kilowatt of power. Or would you have a government in a country that would produce surpluses of both food and power.
      I know who I would trust 

    79. Grant_M says:

      I didn’t intentionally set out to record the AD interview, but seeing as I had it saved…
      (apologies for chopping off the last few seconds, this is my first (and possibly my only!) effort at this)

    80. muttley79 says:

      @Training Day
      They have really reached the stage where it is impossible to trust a word they say.  I think we should all resolve to get involved with the Yes campaign.  Everyone has their part to play.  If we allow this propaganda campaign to win, and a No vote is the result, our nation will be at the mercy of the extreme right wing tendency at Westminster.  That the MSM in Scotland want this to happen tells you all you need to know about their morals and duplicity.

    81. gerry parker says:

      ” do you really want to take that risk?”
      Yes Alistair.

    82. drygrangebull says:

      just read the bbc report on the ifs  ahhhhhh!!!!

    83. Andrew Morton says:

      What you do noticeis that he can’t think on his feet. Or indeed, his arse.

    84. westie7 says:

      All Stations going funking Bananas on this IFS Shite. Obviously none of them read it and just dribbling out he back cover points for unionists.
      Trouble is some folk will swallow this whole!

    85. Jingly Jangly says:

      Who are the IFS
      Well on their Web page in the about page it says
      . As Gordon Brown said a decade ago, on our 30th anniversary, the IFS has “established itself as an indispensable British institution”.
      Impartial my arse!!!!
      A Look at the corporate funders is very illuminating with names such as
      The BBC,  Bank of England, DWP, HM Treasury. HM Revenue and Customs et al
      On Channel four news Darling looks as if he is about to have a heart attack.
      Under extreme pressure I think…..

    86. KraftyKris says:

      Try Jing for recording things on your computer

    87. Davy says:

      How nice it appears to be for Darling and the BBC to be able to run Scotland’s future down with such obvious delight, but come independence we will not forget what they have done.
      And yet again Scotland appears to be the only country with oil whom is destined to grow poorer and poorer, but of course if we leave Westminster to run us it will all be OK.
      What a load of bolloxes, the quicker we are out of the union the better for Scotland.
      Vote Yes, Vote Scotland.

    88. IndyKikwood says:

      The Fear Factor boys are nearly there…  £100 required.   I hope they make a trilogy like LOTR…. no shortage of Better Together Orc/Uruk-hai/Sauron’s/Saruman’s to choose from…

    89. tartanfever says:

      This has not been a good day.
      We’ve had a serious kick in the balls from all media over the IFS report and the bias reporting of it. There’s not a damn thing we can do about it. The 5 second quote from Swinney on the 2 minute C4 news segment was just hopeless.
      Expect this week to have a different negative report released every day in the run up to the white paper coming out, and look for the decidedly low key coverage that will receive.
      The bias MSM just beginning to flex their collective muscles today, and I can tell you there will be thousands in Scotland who have decided to vote ‘No’ after hearing todays block news coverage.
      The SNP/Yes campaign need to wise up.

    90. naebd says:

      “come independence we will not forget what they have done”

      Ach I hope we’ll have better things to do than bear grudges.

    91. Marcia says:

      £20,000 target for the making of a film now met.

    92. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Alastair Darling is a lawyer with several ologies from Skule.
      an O grade in mythematics and a Higher mythynomics.

    93. westie7 says:

      You’re not wrong there

    94. Indy_Scot says:

      Just heard some guy on BBC news saying that Scots are ageing quicker than the rest of the UK. Jeez, if it’s not bad enough that Scotland is colder and darker than England, now we are dying quicker. It must be something to do with being futher from the equator.

    95. CR says:

      Well done Clan Destiny Film, well done @Ian Brotherhood, excellent film.  Other good news is that Scotland Yet made their target.
      Alistair Darling is not doing well, he seemed to be unravelling in the interviews, at that rate he’s not going to make it past Christmas, nevermind all the way to September 2014!

    96. Jon D says:

      @tartanfever says
      The SNP/Yes campaign need to wise up.
      Keep the heid my friend. 
      The Yes campaign is, and always have been, playing the long game here.
      Look again at the tragic character in the article above. Bluster, obfuscation and lies; his body language says it all. This chancer of the first water is on the ropes and he knows it.
      Don’t let this and the associated MSM spin get to you. We always knew this was on the cards and as to how bad it will get is only limited by the machinations of a corrupt unionist mindset.
      The death throws of the British Establishment was never going to be pretty, but how delightful to be alive and make it happen. Be strong, be resolute and cherish the hour. But most of all keep the faith.

    97. wullie says:

      The man looks unwell Im trying to work out in what photo he looks sane

    98. braco says:

      stay cool. This is their game, let the media spout away. It’s becoming more and more obvious with every dire warning and ‘independent’ treasury report just how biased they really are. Folk are not stupid.
      Next time you’re talking to an undecided, list all the reports and warnings given week in week out and ask if they believe them or not? The media have become far too obvious.
      BetterNO and the media are acting like the audience have no other means of information and will not be engaged by the arguments being put forward by normal individuals in their communities. This media shit will not go uncountered, and that countering will be backed up by evidence they can source themselves. It will come down to information that can be trusted and self sourced info is the most trusted.
      My favourite line is always, ‘don’t trust me, you have the internet, google it!’ Works every time with genuinely undecided’s.

    99. call me dave says:

      Aye  Darling.   He’s a right WMD  
      Weapon of Math Deception.
      But well done to Clan Films and Ian B.  Excellent shot in the arm for us all in Scotland.

    100. orkers says:

      Judging by that interview Darling wont stand the pace going towards the September 2014 Referendum.
      Like someone driving a car on X-Box with a poor understanding of how to steer it.

    101. Elizabeth Sutherland says:

      Today with the help of oor Media was the first shot across the bows of the Good ship Independence from the flag ship Westminster.  Did any of you seriously think that Scotland would be left alone to sail away into the sunset to the place of hope and prosperity.
       The people of Scotland have 10 months to the vote for yes, so get oot yer thermals woolly hats and mitts and get talking to the people on the streets. So says me and my 86 year old Mam, she is doing her bit in talking to other pensioners at her club meetings twice a week, she’s no feart and neither am I. So get the job done and come oot with leaflets and good information.

    102. RE. the OBR and oil price predictions ( a key arguing point in today’s IFS report)
      Here’s a link to the document they produced in 2010 which predicted an oil price for this year of $86 (It’s currently sitting at $108)
      You are looking for Table C5

      IMO this is the sort of info it’s worth keeping handy.

    103. Jon D says:

      @Elizabeth Sutherland
      The people of Scotland have 10 months to the vote for yes, so get oot yer thermals woolly hats and mitts and get talking to the people on the streets. So says me and my 86 year old Mam, she is doing her bit in talking to other pensioners at her club meetings twice a week, she’s no feart and neither am I. So get the job done and come oot with leaflets and good information.
      And so say all of us……..It works if you work it. So work it, you’re worth it!

    104. roberto says:

      Idecided to find out where the funding for the IFS study of the implications of an independent Scotland came from.It appears that the funding came from the Economic and Social Research Council.However,on looking further I found that the said council was funded by the Department for Business Innovation and skills who are a ministerial dept.of the UK.govt.This headed by Vince Cable and David Willetts.So,the money trail goes from Cable and Willett,s the IFS.I will leave the readers to draw their own conclusions as to the validity of the study.

    105. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The BBC has opened its coverage of the IFS propaganda to a UK audience so that the comments are skewed. Please everybody get on there and unskew it. The report has also been provided to local newspapers across the country.  

    106. Aidan says:

      @Alistair Wilson
      Amazing what Clan Destiny were able to produce from a few hours filming in the evening and a few more in the morning.  What a privilege that that shivering ramble of mine was allowed to be the last word.

    107. CR says:

      You were great, Aidan, all of you were brilliant! x

    108. Bunter says:

      Caught the end of darlings interview today and just caught the last couple of seconds where I heard the interviewer laughing nervously as he tried to shut him up. thought at the time that I must have missed something entertaining.

    109. McNic says:

      That is hilarious, no need to listen again! Pure comedy gold.

    110. JasonF says:

      Reasonable (short) report on C4 News – they at least mentioned the 50-year timeframe of the report. They also highlighted working class, male, central belt voters (with a few opinions from men in Paisley saying they were undecided, with one or two saying they had been No), saying both Yes and No were aware that this group could be key.

    111. westie7 says:

      I know everybody says keep the heid and point the undecideds in the way of alternative viewpoints, well today I had about half a dozen of my usual undecided acquaintances reeling with joy and waving their Scottish Daily Mail at me. This type will simply take it as the MSM presents it

    112. John grant says:

      I have just about had it with this crap , how do folk get to hate their own people and country, do they not understand they will have a lot of explaining to do if there’s a no vote which is just not going to happen . ach what a scunner

    113. Stuart Black says:

      The death throws of the British Establishment was never going to be pretty, but how delightful to be alive and make it happen. Be strong, be resolute and cherish the hour. But most of all keep the faith.
      Thanks for this, Jon D, you are absolutely right. I am always deeply depressed after listening to Mr. Darling, not least because of his inability to pronounce the word ‘Scotland’, and his ponderous fear-fucking tones, you have restored my equanimity, thank you.

    114. Marcia says:

      Interesting number from the (HMG)IFS report;
       Scots pay £11,079 tax per head, UK pays £9,342. I am sure that should be circulated far and wide.

    115. TYRAN says:

      Dirty Darling says Scotland population is aging faster than rest of UK. Must be a fracture in space time. Everyone ages the same. 

    116. braco says:

      sounds like they are reveling in rubbing your nose in it. That don’t mean they believe it and it don’t mean that your arguments aren’t hitting home. It just means that there is a year to go and for most folk this is still a game.

      Come September, it won’t be a game and it will take more than a unionist report that relies on ‘fifty year forecasts’ to rubbish an Independent Scotland’s future, to convince any real undecided voter.
      Keep drilling away under the BetterNO/Media waterline with reasonable, factual and researchable arguments and they will sink.

    117. Norrie says:

      Let’s fund the IFS to do a study on what will happen to the rUK when Scotland goes, they are independent are they not ?

    118. X_Sticks says:

      Thanks Alastair really good video. Top marks for Clan Destiny Films.

      Very impressed by your performance Ian Brotherhood. You’re a credit to your cause. Everyone on the video is outstanding.

      Thanks to Grant for the AD clip, well caught! – He really is looking very shaky. It can’t be easy telling all those lies when you know the truth, can it?

    119. braco says:

      what’s happened to 3meninablog? I am missing my weekly fix.

    120. Stuart Black says:

      Let’s fund the IFS to do a study on what will happen to the rUK when Scotland goes, they are independent are they not ?
      This, yes! 😀

    121. Marcia says:

      the chart I forgot to include with my post above;

    122. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Do you really think that AD can distinguish between the truth and the lie in his soundproof bubble of self entitlement?
      I wouldn’t put a sweaty pair of my M & S Ys on that possibility.

    123. Andrew Morton says:

      I think that the reports of an aging population bear more scrutiny. Firstly, we know that the average age at death in Scotland is lower than in England. Put crudely, that means that we don’t collect our pensions for as long. Secondly, where do these pemsioners come from? A lot of them are people who made their contributions in England. Would an independent Scotland not collect some sort of contribution from RUK towards their pensions? Thirdly, we have seen that the policy of free personal care has allowed people to remain in their homes for longer, taking some of the strain off hospital services. Add into the mix the possibility of increased immigration and it can be seen that these predictions only have any validity if we assume that iScotland would be exactly the sames as the UK, which almost certainly wouldn’t be the case.

    124. john king says:

      Frankieboy says
      “I only looked at the pictures but can I have a stab at the dialogue? 10 Clearly’s, 5 don’t stack ups, 3 fiscal cliffs, too wee, too poor, too stupid, too old, too cauld, too rainy, too sunny, too far north, too much oil, too daft so listen to me I know better. Is that about it?”
      What are you? a friggin stenographer? 
      that was word perfect jeesh

    125. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      O/T – Great to see that the £20k for Scotland Yet has been raised.
      And I have figured our how to put images up on Flickr ,,,
      The Descent of Scottish Labour –
      (Satire Warning)

    126. john king says:

      referring to Marcias post earlier woe 
      made me think of Frankie Howard from up Pompeii 
      woe woe and thrice woe
      come to think of it?

    127. Norrie says:

      Here is last weeks FMQs.

    128. rabkae says:

      So the largest oil producer in the EU will be skint because Holyrood rather than Westminster will hold the purse strings?
      An Independent Scotland will have to cut spending?
      I know, lets start with not spending any money on, for example, intercontinental ballistic missile carrying submarines, fighting wars in far off dusty brown places and subsidising nuclear power stations, for starters.
      I haven’t had such a good laugh since watching Lamont’s performance at the last FMQs.
      Thank you Darling!

    129. caz-m says:

      STV you should be ashamed of yourselves. Starring,

      “Hi, I’m John Mackay and I luv to fuckin lie”

      and also the ex Lib-Dem candidate for Govan,

      Bernard “dramatic sound bite” Ponsonby.

      and not forgettin,

      weeI-pad Rhona.

      Shower o’ unionist rogues.

    130. braco says:

      cheers min, couldn’t find it for some reason? Really enjoy the debrief, so please keep them coming (and thank the boys for me too).

    131. Jingly Jangly says:

      Andrew Morton
      The UK pensions dept has confirmed in writing that they will continue to pay the pensions of those who have already retired and that they will pay for those who have not already to retire and have contributed to the uk pension scheme for minimum amount (off top of head its something like 30 years) for those who have not paid into the uk pension fund for minimum amount they will pay pro-rata share.
      This is not up for negotiation, its the same for a UK pensioner who moves to Spain they still get there pension and Winter fuel allowance!!!

    132. HandandShrimp says:

      The White Paper is obviously a worry to the BT lot and I’m guessing we will see more of this recycled pap and probably a poll suggesting that the Yes vote is now a minus figure between now and next Tuesday. We can gauge the level of BBC complicity in all this by the way they report the White Paper. There is something desperate about the latest IFS report, it is virtually a carbon copy of their last stab at this topic. There are no new tricks in the Better Together toy cupboard.

    133. Kev says:

      Just been having a read of the Fiscal Commission Working Group’s “Principles for a Modern and Efficient Tax System in an Independent Scotland” – not read it all yet as its quite a brute at 147 pages but so far a very good and informative read, I would highly recommend not just future Scottish Government’s following its proposals but rUK governments would benefit hugely from its wisdom also…

    134. AlexMci says:

      @caz m, totally fucking agree with that. Did you hear him with the “tonight we will hear both sides. Aye so we will. It’s pissin me off watching the shower of shite on TV. Just thankful I don’t pay the telly tax for that nonsense.

    135. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      If things do indeed age faster in these parts, this represents yet another fantastic economic opportunity for an Independent Scotland.
      e.g. the entire French vintage wine harvest can be shipped over to Broxburn each year so that it can mature faster, the Large Hadron Collider will give more interesting scientific results if it is moved to Glasgow, and all the major international wrinkle-cream manufacturers can move their global R&B facilities to somewhere between Cumbernauld and Grangemouth.

    136. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      major international wrinkle-cream manufacturers can move their global R&B facilities to somewhere between Cumbernauld and Grangemouth.
      Correction: they can move both their global R&B and R&D facilities to Scotland

    137. X_Sticks says:


      You’re right of course BtP. I wouldn’t put a pair of your sweaty M&S Ys on that either. Obviously he can’t tell what’s real any more. He probably thinks he’s still important ’cause he’s always on the telly.

    138. MJB says:

      In 1958, the IFS forecasted the 2008 financial crash under Darlings stewardship.  Or maybe they didn`t!

    139. Famous15 says:

      Just watched ITN news .It was anti Scottish vile propaganda. 

    140. Edward says:

      Completely disgraceful reporting on ITN News at Ten. Laura Kuenssberg stating more than once that IFS was a ‘trusted and well respected’ body It was if they were driving home that we should all trust what we are being told by the IFS. interspliced through the report it was all doom and gloom talk of VAT going up other taxes going up and services being cut. plus well placed interviews.
      The unionists are really doing a number in the propaganda . I am so angry at the way ITN reported this. Kuenssberg is ex BBC Scotland of course. Westminster is pulling in all the favours as they see the oil revenues from Scotland slipping through their fingers

    141. Calum Craig says:

      I like how the BBC balanced this piece.

    142. Calum Craig says:

      (Unless of course they had John Swinnie on afterwards??)

    143. Theunicorn says:

      The IFS report uses the OBR’s projections and estimates. The OBR’s Robert Chote was previously accused of using guesswork after a whole series of revisions for years up to 2016 led to the “disappearance” of £65 billion from the uk economy. Any accountant will tell you that projections are a bit like crystal ball gazing but if you look at the IFS graphs, the revenues from North sea production etc falls off a cliff after 2016. I wonder why ? Lets not forget that public sector debt would be under our control and where is our share of our Uk assets ? There are so many variables at work here that render the projections practically meaningless.

    144. kininvie says:

      Coming late to this…..
      @schrodingers cat
      @ian brotherhood
      Link to this Clan Destiny vid seems to be bust (error 505).  But I so want to see it….

    145. Alex Taylor says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Real respect Ian: you and your team are walking the walk.

    146. caz-m says:


      Very frustrating from all the media today. This was obviously a planned attack.

      I just hope the media give equal airtime tomorrow for the Scottish Government’s report on the economic benefits in an Independent Scotland.


    147. muttley79 says:

      Interesting that both BBC Scotland and ITN are both saying that the think tank IFS is well respected.  Are we seeing collusion between the “rival” broadcasters to further the interests of the British state and establishment?  Surely not…

    148. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      it is virtually a carbon copy of their last stab at this topic. There are no new tricks in the Better Together toy cupboard.

      Sitting down in front of the 6:30 BBC Scottish “News” tonight, suddenly felt like Groundhog Day.
      Had I not heard about this report ad nauseam weeks/months ago?
      Why does Douglas Fraser sound like he knows these words off by heart?
      Why does Jackie Bird have that strange look on her face?
      Then I realised I wasn’t hallucinating, and thought … how on Earth can they keep up this level of bare-faced re-lying for 10 more months?
      Interesting (and good) times ahead I think …

    149. msean says:

      According to this we’re not only too wee,too poor and too stupid,but too auld(albeit 50 years hence).Pull the other one lol.Looks like another case of using govt resources to fight the indyref.

    150. muttley79 says:

      FFS, John Mackay staying with the script of the “well respected” IFS. 

    151. Indy_Scot says:

      Having watched different news outlets throughout the day, it has been nothing more than state controlled disinformation to influence the vote. It can only be described as criminal.

    152. Red squirrel says:

      Scotland getting older quicker = oil production declining… Must mean if we switch to renewables, save the oil, we’ll get younger. Makes about as much sense as that incoherent lather flipper got himself into.
      When the White Paper is published someone better make sure these unionists have a wee sedative and a nice lie down. 
      Once we vote yes, we’ll have to scare ourselves in an independent Scotland ‘cos we won’t have  our “friends” to do the scaring. Can’t say I’ll miss it much.

    153. msean says:

      missing out how far into the future lol

    154. Jingly Jangly says:

      Slightly O/T Co-op Bank Boss Paul Flowers was Labour Councillor and was a advisor on an Industry and Finance board to Millband.

      Appearing before a committee of MP’s this month a source said he did not appear to have a grasp of the basics of how the bank operated.

      Channel four news reported that he was a teller in the Co-op bank and other reports said he rose through the ranks due to an internal power struggle.

      In other words a typical Labour placeman promoted on who he knew rather than ability.

      And Darling tries to lecture us on financial matters…

    155. Edward says:

      really just how many times can either ITN or BBC get the phrase ‘Trusted and well respected’ or just ‘well respected’ into the IFS story?

    156. X_Sticks says:

      muttley79 says:

      “Are we seeing collusion between the “rival” broadcasters to further the interests of the British state and establishment?”

      I think it would be fair to say  we have today seen a full broadside from the UK MSM.

      They know they are losing.

    157. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Aye, the proverbial wee alien has been told to find out about ‘Project Fear’, so he tunes into all global MSM simultaneously (as is his wont) – I wonder who, in his truly objective assessment, looks/sounds/acts ‘scared’?

    158. Jingly Jangly says:

      More on Flowers from the BBC’s Robert Peston

    159. muttley79 says:

      Complaints will do no good.  They will not listen to them.  I think it is time we backed the Yes campaign to the hilt.  It is clear we are up against a media backed political campaign.  We all need to think about ways to get involved in the Yes campaign. 

    160. msean says:

      Who is the simon guy on telly?

    161. Thepnr says:

      I’m neither surprised nor worried about todays onslaught from the media. Papers will be full of it tomorrow too which nicely deflects from the plans to be announced later this week on tax for business, NI etc by the Scottish Government.
      Face to Face is the only way to defeat this. Eventually everyone, I would hope will get the message this way.

    162. muttley79 says:

      It is Simon Johnson.  He is Poor Old Cockers’ comrade in the Daily Telegraph.  BTW How good was Lesley Riddoch on STV just now?  Very impressive.  She is a real asset to the Yes campaign.

    163. kininvie says:

      Anyone feeling depressed?  Derek has the answer, as usual:

    164. Ekindy says:

      Brief Scotland Tonight debate tonight summed the norm up for me. Telegraph guy with smirking coupon and flippant throw away comments of no real substance against a passionate sincere lady journalist.

    165. fairliered says:

      If that is how angry Darling gets when being interviewed by a BBC Scotland labour apparatchik, imagine how angry he would be if he was asked difficult questions by a professional interviewer!
      Unless he is Dorian Darling ageing quickly because he is a Scot.

    166. msean says:

      Lesley Riddoch was good there,puts her case well as always.Must sell hundreds of thousands every day what with its positive outlook.I’m still voting YES.

    167. garyjc says:

      Excellent film from Ayrshire re SSP and Yes v Bitter Thegither – positive, positive stuff, linked above several times. In my more upbeat moments I have always believed (albeit completely unscientifically) that the final percentage for Yes will be somewhere in the 62-67% region as well so maybe given that IanB has also come down on those figures also gives me hope. Maybe Scottish Skier would care to stick his neck out as he seems to be the real finger on the pulse poll wise. THe only thing that still gets me down is the criminally biased MSM but even there we might be seeing very slow moves towards balance; not much but at least something – all we need is the Record or Sun to be a bit less outrageously BritNat, and of course the Beeb, and the game is won – 64% has always been my prediction so fingers crossed

    168. msean says:

      The telegraph that is.

    169. braco says:

      BetterNO and the media/broadcasters seem to be under the impression that the vote is next week, right after the white paper is released. They also seem to think that the white paper is a media event and can be spun/sunk by some clever media based ‘contextualisation’ and comment.
      Unfortunately for them,
      1. The vote is nearly a year away! (FFS)
      2. The white paper could even be smuggled out without a fanfare next week (which it most certainly won’t) and it will still be the most influential document in this process as it will form the basis of all future media debates, and more importantly be at the center of those ever increasing YES campaign grass root conversations over the coming year.
      I understand the noises they are making, I just don’t understand why? Other than as some sort of comfort blanket to reassure themselves that ‘it’s all ok…. everything’s going to be alright’.
      But surely saying the same thing over and over again for the next year is simply stupid and is not going to work?
      This is the second IFS report saying exactly the same thing as last time. How many of these can they produce before September and keep a straight face, or more importantly, the electorate keep a straight face?!

    170. Jon D says:

      @ Muttley79
      Let me tell you guys that you are already backing Yes to the hilt.
      When the shit hits the fan, the way in which you all group and begin to systematically debunk all the lies that Westminster slings at us is truly impressive.

      It’s not something I can do but it is certainly why I recommend loads of folk to come here, to this site,  when I’m out canvassing, leafleting, on markets etc. We can’t do this without you all on Wings.
      It is this solidarity that will ensure that we are the winning side.
      Collectively we are bigger and more believable, through our passion, than the dastardly (see what I did there, Muttley), MSM.

    171. handclapping says:

      But it is all plausibly deniable. The Government, Westminster, cannot influence the BBC or the media, ask Leveson. Just as the Government cannot run the railways, its all commercially confidential or ensure that the lights stay on, its driven by market forces, most of whom are owned by foreigners to boot.
      Because Westminster is so incompetent it couldn’t run a whelk stall, it has divested itself of all and any reponsibility for anything and everything and demands to be paid more so that its members can play politics in comfort.
      Westminster isn’t working for Scotland, (or the rUK, but that is their problem)

    172. Macandroid says:

      Naebd @ 5:50
      Very scary but just needs a dolphin soundtrack to sound like Flipper. 

    173. Ken500 says:

      Paul Johnson IFS


    174. msean says:

      Got to say though,that with no newspapers or news/tv channels batting for it,yes still stands up in the polls remarably well.Too much worry about 50 years from now.Could be that they might be worried that 50 years from now,the ruk might be getting loans from Scotland.

    175. Theunicorn says:

      I thought seeing Darling on telly was bad enough but to have to listen to the “Gray” man was enough for me. Even the dug hid under the table.

    176. msean says:

      Mr Hosie is very good here,no match here.

    177. Marcia says:

      rUK’……..might be getting loans from Scotland.’
      Hopefully at Wonga rates.
      The little titbit of paying more into the UK Treasury than the rest of the UK is their weak spot. We should turn the tables on them. Thankfully most of the people who wrote this HMG sponsored report will be dead in 50 years time so they won’t see how off the mark they were. Me too sadly.
      Expect more HMG sponsored gamesmanship but these scare stories are being debunked quite nicely.

    178. Mary Bruce says:

      God, Iain Gray looked even more deranged than Darling over on Newsnicht just now…

      This IFS report has made the prospect of staying in the union even more terrifying IMO. If we currently put in more than we get out then what will happen when we start putting in less?  Will the benevolent Westminster increase the block grant to compensate?  Will they hell. Anyone who thinks we can count on the support of the rest of the uk when the oil starts running out are living in cloud cuckoo land.

      We need to get out now and start building a better economy and prevent our future oil revenues being sqandered on more trident and SW infrastructure before we are sunk forever.

    179. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @garyjc –
      ‘64% has always been my prediction so fingers crossed.’
      Kin right.
      What I meant to say to the film crew was ‘between 62 and 67% of votes cast’ – I’ve no idea how that ties in with what SS has been saying, but it does ‘feel’ right. Point is – we’ll get the folk on the day.
      Even the hard-core DK’s, when it comes to it? Coin in the air time? For me, they’re always inclined to be positive, to say ‘ach, what the hell’ – even if those folk constitute a relatively small % of the electorate overall, I reckon they’re ‘ours’. Come the day, they’ll help us make it a decisive Yes.
      64% of all votes cast is, IMO, a good shout. If it was one of those super Lotto-type sketches? that would be my number.

    180. muttley79 says:

      @John D
      Collectively we are bigger and more believable, through our passion, than the dastardly (see what I did there, Muttley), MSM.  
      This could be the Yes campaign’s unofficial theme song:

    181. Bill C says:

      We have lost our democracy and we are now in the hands of state controlled media. It is about as serious as it gets if you truly value your democratic right to have a say in how your country is governed. This debate is no longer just about independence, it’s about our right to live in a democratic society. 

    182. The Man in the Jar says:

      I agree with others about Gray. On both Newsnight and Scotland tonight He could not hide his glee at the prospect of Scotland suffering in the future after independence. 

    183. theycan'tbeserious says:

      If we are aging quicker in Scotland than the rest of the uk and the world presumably, is there evidence or a table of world aging that backs this statement up? Not that I would want to move to a country that ages slower as it is probably a symptom of being Scottish! It’s not just our oil that is volatile and running out but also our very being!!!
      Do you actually believe this PISH ? Wake up Scotland and Vote Yes….to a longer life! 

    184. Brian Mark says:

      This comming from a half wit who had fuckin Fred Goodwin as an economic advisor and blames the poor and diadvantaged for the economic mess he and Broon created in the first place. Christ does this man have any moral compass at all? Typical new labour university piss, Vote YES and confine this rubbish to the dustbin of history

    185. Jon D says:

      This could be the Yes campaign’s unofficial theme song:
      Nice One Muttley; sums it up nicely. It’s a yes from me!

    186. Training Day says:

      The uniformity of today’s MSM coverage should give every democrat cause for concern. There is no longer any desire for truth, for uncovering the misdeeds of the rich and powerful, for even basic analysing and questioning of orthodoxies. Instead we are left with a sub X factor culture of celebrity journalists ’embedded’ entirely within the narrative of vested interests, in this case the British state.

      I hesitate to use the ‘f’ word lest I set off the Braveheart klaxon, but it’s no exaggeration to say that today proves that our basic and fundamental freedoms are at stake on September 18 next year.

    187. CR says:

      I suggest that the no campaign is in dire straits, the only person they could find to speak for them is Iain Grey

    188. Jingly Jangly says:

      Just reading parts of the fiscal Commissions working group taxation paper.
      According to this report authored by respected International financial experts including 2 nobel laureates  total revenues in Scotland year 2011/2012 was just under 57 billion, as the block grant from Westminster was 30 billion and will be cut going forward due to the UK’s austerity plans this means we have over 27 billion pounds per annum  to pay for Defence, Pensions,Welfare,Diplomatic corp and other lessor departments.
      Given that the UK government will still have to pay pensions going forward for everybody in Scotland that has contributed 30 years worth of NI payments and for those already retired we are going to have a lot of money to spare. We will of course build up a pension pot which unlike the UK will pay future pensions instead of the present situation of paying out of current taxation.
      I wonder if the MSM will headline their TV/Radio reports with this information?

    189. Papadocx says:

      totally agree about Gray however think Robertson did his bit for NO!

    190. the journeyman says:

      Once you dig through it all the truth comes out. The report is not so independent as it claims, then the main guy from IFS quietly mentions using OBR modelling or something to that effect and publication date is no coincidence. (Always get your retaliation in first.) Day started negatively but ends on a high as the holes in the IFS report are explained by those that know better.
      Also had to laugh at Darling’a comment earlier today that the Scottish Gov forgets it has all the day to day running costs of schools, hospitals etc. Pity he failed to elaborate on the costs of PFI legacy his Labour chums have left our kids and grand kids. He has a very selective memory!

    191. Bill C says:

      Grant – Brilliant!

    192. creigs17707repeal says:

      The MSM (print and broadcast) need to be taken head on. We cannot allow them to dictate the debate. People (mainly the uninformed, the undecideds) need to be shown how they are being manipulated with lies, disinformation and misinformation by the MSM in Scotland. I am sure someone out there (Posterboy??) has the talent to produce a flyer that conveys the sinister and odious nature of the MSM in this debate in a dark but snappy way, to convey how they are nothing but a state propaganda machine. We need to fight this monster people and we need to fight it hard. People must understand how this machine is downright lying to them.
      Come on – ideas people. Let’s have some Ideas.
      YES Scotland

    193. CR says:

      @Papadocx are you talking about Newsnight?  Was Gray on that too?  I’ve only seen Scotland Tonight so far I think the yes team were very good on that show I thought. 
      Stewart Hosie was reasonable and came across as very knowledgeable, Lesley Roddoch was passionate and came up with some very good one-liners – she made a good point about Eurpope, and asked how the IFS could predict what they had when they hadn’t even factored in whether UK would be in Europe in six years time.  She also said that the report assumed that Scotland were content to ‘Lump along with the rest of the UK’  Their opponants were Iain Gray and a posh tory in a suit who writes for the Telegraph (Simon Johnson?).
      Don’t think I’ll bother watching Newsnight till tomorrow 

    194. caz-m says:

      I hope that this media bias is brought up at the BBC Question Time in Falkirk at the end of the month.

      If anyone we know can get into the audience, then they need to let the public know what is going on. Highlight the erosion of democracy in Scotland.

      Also mention to them the Labour no-show at Westminster and bedroom tax evictions, yet not a mention of any of it on BBC Scotland.

      But they can find time for a 5 minute report on a guy swimming from England to Scotland.

    195. Papadocx says:

      Then they come to fight you! 
      The anti SCOTTISH campaign has begun. 

    196. caz-m says:

      When I read back what I just wrote, it looked like I was describing someone trying to get information to the outside world from North Korea.

      Very frightening indeed the direction the media are going in.

    197. Ragin' Wee Man says:

      That was some performance from Laura Kuenssberg tonight. Boiling over with bile, face twisted in hatred and scorn for the wicked secessionists, every sentence a hostage to truth. Lest we forget, her father Nick was of course one of those who donated £995 to Wendy Alexander’s Leadership campaign………. 

    198. clochoderic says:

      Having watched both Darling and Grey all day on the news I wonder if it is an in-joke between the two to see who can do the best impersonation of this guy: 
      Herbert Lom as Chief Inspector Dreyfus – Part 1/2- Scenes from Pink

    199. Gallowglass says:

      genuine lol. 

    200. Angus McLellan says:

      @Jingly Jangly: The rUK won’t be picking up the tab for state old age pensions. They are paid out of current revenues. There’s no huge pension fund out there to be shared. (There is a National Insurance Fund, but it only contains the surplus from NI payments – and there isn’t always a surplus in any given year. It was worth approximately £38.5 billion in March 2012.)

      And since the IFS has been in the news today, people might enjoy this edition of BBC Radio 4’s Analysis from July. It’s an IFS man predicting doom and gloom for the UK. If you’d prefer to read it, there’s a transcript here. All remarkable familiar after today.

    201. The Grew says:

      Can some of the more financially knowledgeable among you please explain this report.

    202. john king says:

      The Unicorn (hello) says
      “North sea production etc falls off a cliff after 2016.”
      And then we ask if Scotland’s future is so abysmal why (remind us) you want to keep a hold of such a basket case ? 
      they have no answer to that,
      why if your in a sinking ship would you want to save the anchor?

    203. john king says:

      Papadocx says
      “Then they come to fight you! 
      The anti SCOTTISH campaign has begun.”
      Which is WHY  they WILL lose !  

    204. clochoderic says:

      It is only a matter of time before Ally D suffers a complete breakdown on live telly – he might not cut his finger off or stab himself with a letter opener but he is doing a Dreyfuss – mental breakdown in a highly public job.
       Ian Grey’s left eye was doing a good Dreyfuss impersonation too last night. Are we supposed to take these jokers seriously? – Is this the best they have got?

    205. john king says:

      Sorry best I could do
      I hope the Welsh wont mind
      wait until you see the whites of their eyes lads

    206. Bunter says:

      The BBC decide what does and does not get asked on QT.

    207. Vronsky says:

      The gloomy face and sepulchral voice are just parts of Darling’s schtick.  It’s an attempt at rank and gravitas, collapsing into self-parody.  Watching old newsreel of Hitler addressing mobs, I always wonder how people could ever have taken such an obvious clown seriously.  I’m afraid I get much the same feeling watching poor Alasdair.

    208. Bunter says:

      Don’t know about the rest of the papers this morning, but it’s fairly getting ramped up at The Herald with Gardham and his red paper on how we are the same as those in the English regions, an attack on Mike Russell, the  IFS again , a piece by Clegg and continuing negative story on Police Scotland. Trying to overload the Scottish Gov perhaps.

    209. clochoderic says:

      Ask Ally -D if he ever smoked dope in the Lauder Road squat in Embra  during the occupation. In 1975 when he was in the International Marxist Group before he became a cooncillur.

    210. john king says:

      Major Bloodnok says
      “OK, McDougall, one last time.  These ones are small, but the ones out there are far away.”

      Fixed that for you

      these clowns are small 
      those clowns are far away 🙂

    211. Linda's Back says:

      We will see how impartial the “national” and Scottish BBC/ STV/ MSM is over its treatment of the Scottish government’s authoritative report on the Scottish economy compared to the wall to wall orchestrated coverage of the IFS report based on discredited OBR projections. 

      Scotland must be unique in that all the main media outlets gives uncritical coverage to a foreign government’s report which trashes a country which would be one of the richest nations in the world.

    212. john king says:

      Lindas back says
      “Scotland must be unique in that all the main media outlets gives uncritical coverage to a foreign government’s report which trashes a country which would be one of the richest nations in the world.”

      Call me Dave is still the prime minister of Scotland

    213. mealer says:

      Scotland is an oil rich country.Alistair Darling thinks we’re better to let London control that wealth because me and my family,my friends,neighbours and workmates,arent capable.I find that offensive.

    214. alexicon says:

      It is time we had some leaflets made and distributed to every home in Scotland (if we can) about the media’s biased.
      Name and shame every single one of them and explain why they’re biased.
      We have to circumvent their obvious biased leanings.

    215. Arabs for Independence says:

      Flipper Darling having another angry rant on GMS this morning. Went unchallenged (yet again) on his view that Scotland’s banks (and Scotland) were saved by Westminster.
      It did appear to me however that Gary Robertson was glad when the interview ended.

    216. Stuart Black says:

      INDEPENDENCE would condemn Scotland to a “long period of non-stop austerity and spending cuts,” says Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. 

      I don’t suppose any comment is necessary, other than to wonder what level of self-awareness these clowns have.

    217. Stuart Black says:

      Ah, above link not working, try this one.

    218. Craig Evans says:

      Having just heard John Swinney and then Alastair darling on “GMS” our Ali does sound a bit rattled and even accused the presenter of making the “Nationalists” case.
      Boy are the knives out from the Bitter Together lot.

    219. Bunter says:

      George Kerevan on top form trashing right wing Adam Smith mouthpiece and taking BBC presenter to task more than once during the interview. Funniest bit where Hayley Miller? Suggested a 1bn saving on defence wasn’t much, Kerevan said that may be the case for those on a BBC salary lol….

    220. Linda's Back says:

      Alistair Darling has no shame.
      It was the UK regulatory authorities headed by Alistair Darling that had the powers to investigate the RBS / AMBRO take over  but ignored fact that no  due diligence was done by RBS on a deal worth £49 billion before they gave its approval for world’s biggest bank take over  deal that brought about the collapse of the Royal Bank.

      At the time Fred Goodwin was an adviser to Alistair Darling as Chancellor, and was still a member of a key Treasury body advising Labour months after the banking crisis and quitting RBS

      In a BBC Today Programme Lecture on 2nd May 2012, the Governor of the Bank of England, Sir Mervyn King criticised the lack of action by Alistair Darling and the last Labour government in the earliest days of the banking crisis when the first UK Bank, sorry English bank, Northern Rock, failed, which King said could have cost up to one million people their jobs.  

      Decisive action would have at least mitigated the problems encountered by other Banks including HBOS and RBS some 10 months later. 

    221. Fairliered says:

      clochoderic: 7.09am
      He must have done. Look at his soot stained eyebrows!

    222. Edward says:

      Just listened to Darling’s rant on GMS – he was up to expectation in that he started spouting rubbish from the get go. Example , when Gary Robertson said that Scotland could fair as well as any small country. Darling Mr Angry retorted by reeling off his usual Ireland, Iceland and Portugal. Now as it happens I know Portugal rather well and I would not describe it as a small country in population terms. After all Bitter Together likes to state that countries with small populations like Scotland are not as successful as larger population countries. The population of Portugal is 10,743,829, so twice the size of Scotland.

      Mr Angry conveniently ignored countries that do have similar population size, such as Norway, Denmark, Finland, or even smaller countries like Lithuania, Luxembourg or Latvia.

      Now the other remark that caught my ear was this ‘Scotland’s biggest trading partner is the rest of the UK’ Now I am intrigued by this statement as its one that keeps getting an airing by Bitter Together. Apparently as soon as Scotland becomes independent , the barriers will go up, borders will have to be negotiated etc. Mr Angry even cited Canada and the USA border as preventing proper trade (that would be interesting for my relatives on both sides of that border!) Gary Robertson told Mr Angry that they have a Free Trade Agreement, that just made Mr Angry, more angrier. Fact is even before the free trade agreement (NAFTA) there was a free flow of trade. Canadians watch lots of US TV channels and consume lots of US made product and vice versa.

      But my point is this. What makes Bitter Together think that England IS the biggest trading partner with Scotland? After all there is no means of actually measuring it, really there is not. The UK’s balance of trade figures are based on statistical data provided through the day to day export declarations of good exported to countries outside the EU and the import declarations of goods imported from outside the EU , through UK ports and airports. The trade figures for trade with the EU from and to the UK, is based on the intrastat input(basically its a data capture of accounting using EU VAT registrations, which identify which EU country the buyer or seller is located)

      However there is no such data capturing set up between Scotland and England as they are both within the UK VAT regime. So I can only guess that better together are assuming that England is Scotland’s biggest trading partner. BUT if you think about Whisky sales on a global scale which is worth billions, then I would be inclined to say that England is NOT Scotland’s biggest trading partner

      sorry for being long winded, but couldn’t think of a way of shortening it 

    223. Ivan McKee says:

      (Slightly) O/T
      Business for Scotland event this Wednesday in Glasgow
      Prosperity in an Indy Scotland (plus some observations on the IFS report).

    224. Max says:

      The alternative title for this report should be, “The Scots – 300 years of union and still a nation of beggars”
      That is what Scottish unionists like Darling and Gray have been trumpeting all day yesterday, “Scots are a nation of beggars who have been and still are living off the English”. 

    225. caz-m says:

      The main thrust of the IFS report was to tell the rest of the UK, through all media outlets, that an Independent Scotland would have to raise taxes to survive.

      Today the Scottish Government also releases an economic report on the advantages of Independence. And I would say the key point in the report is the lowering of corporation tax to 3% below any UK corporation tax.

      This would attract companies from around the UK and even worldwide, which generates employment and more income tax.

      So it’s a win win situation for an Independent Scotland. I do hope this message is told to the rest of the UK, with same enthusiasm as was given to the IFS report yesterday.

    226. Ken500 says:

      The only reason Scotland didn’t balance the books for the last ten years was Alistair Darling.
      Illegal wars, Trident, bank fraud an tax evasion.

      Two kids with a crap crystal ball account, a Unionist banker on crack cocaine.

      Put a tax on cheap drink cut the Health care Bill = £1.5Billion. Get rid of Trident = £1.5Billion

      £3Billion sorted.

      Develop Green energy and sell it. Quids in.

      Pensions are pay every year out of taxes raised in Scotland (£60Billion). Private pension funds are being depleted by quantative easing. BoE printing money.

      People die younger in Scotland. Older population die younger. No difference.

    227. call me dave says:

      Herald trailing Mr Swinney’s report.

    228. Ken500 says:

      Scotland pays higher taxes now.

      Total revenues raised in Scotland £60Billion. Total revenues raised in the UK £610Billion (including the £40Billion Royal Mail theft) Scotland gets £48Billion back. Pays £4Billion on debt repayments – it doesn’t borrow or spend. £8Billion unaccounted.

      Westminster spends £720Billion. £120Billion more.

      To be borrowing and spending the same (pro rata) as the rest of the UK, Scotland would need to spend/borrow £70Billion.

    229. Training Day says:

      A quite remarkably furious, bitter and paranoid interview given by Darling on GMS this morning.  Amusing in the context that the wretched Gary Robertson had to sit there and take Darling’s abuse because, although personally Robertson must have been uncomfortable being on the receiving end of such vitriol, he has to take it on the chin becuase it’s His Master’s Voice. 
      Robertson did his BT job well, once again refusing to challenge Darling on his claims that he saved the Scottish economy.
      Oh, and anyone else notice how Darling spits out with venom only the surnames of Scottish Government Ministers? Sssswinney…

    230. Robert Kerr says:

      Indeed, it is very difficult to quantify Scotland to The South and Europe exports.
      However stand and count the railfreight on the west coast main line, south of Carluke/Carstairs which captures the flat-cars and tank-cars from Mossend marshalling yards.
      Most of this is by its nature moved in the evenings and overnight. Be impressed by trains of 30 or so flat-cars each loaded with one or one and a half containers.
      I estimate more than 1000 tonnes per train.
      Note also the main freight company is DB Shenker a wholly owned subsidiary of Deutche Bahn in Berlin.
      Again the information is in the World Wide Web. Let’s use it and our native wit to find the truth.

    231. Robert Kerr says:

      @call me dave
      The first comment is by the execrable OBE-Wan. 
      I never read his offerings to the Herald.
      Is the Herald really on the Yes side?

    232. gordoz says:

      Darling should just come out and rename the ‘Against Scotland’ campaign as
      ‘Exactly the same together’ – no prospect, no aspiration; more of the same old shit.
      Same economic see-saw pitfalls, flawed balance of national debt, closure of swathes of industry, failed banks, corrupt v inept politics, house flipping, illegal wars … oh and impending 2 tier health care. In short a terminal drowning downward cycle with intermitent periods of coming up for air.
      IFS (impartial ?) report =
      UK ‘Exactly the same together’ absolutely no change (but drowning)
      Ind Scotland, inherited finacial state from UK / problems but
      prospect of change by citizens at the core / real change (aspirational change) 

    233. Ken500 says:

      Thatcher/Westminster centralised transport policies, built Tilbury Docks, cost £Billions. Took jobs away for docks all over UK. Goods are imported/ exported through London.

      Pre recession Scotland imported £40Billion exported £40Billion – No balance of payment deficit. The rest of the UK has a large balance of payment deficit. There is free trade throughout the EU.
      Scotland is surplus in fuel/energy.

    234. Gillie says:

      Alistair Darling venomous outbursts on GMS marks him as unstable. Another psychologically flawed Labour politician

    235. Indy_Scot says:

      From the way the BBC news website is reporting today’s news of the Scottish governments economic report for an Independent Scotland, it is clear that yesterdays IFS report was timed to rubbish today’s report.
      If you were paying the BBC for this you would be raging.

    236. Ken500 says:

      Herald journalists masquerading as OBE’s for clicks. Why do folk bother?

      BBC coverage of IFS Report, though dire, was better than commercial. One BBC commentator actually acknowledged Scotland paid higher taxes. That’s a first.

    237. Ken500 says:

      @Indy_Scot 9.39 am


    238. JLT says:

      Oh God… oh god…
      I’ve taken a break from decorating the 2nd bathroom, come to see if there is anything new on Wings; seen there’s nothing, but decided to watch Alistair Darlings whining and bleating on the BBC news yesterday…
      Oh, God, I don’t know what is making my head hurt most.
      1. The smell of paint and petrochemicals
      2. Alistair Darling
      Oh God…why did I do that ….as in watch Alistair Darling. Oh well …back to the turps, fumes, gloss, and all the other chemicals that are lethal to mankind… it’s less harmful…

    239. alexicon says:

      “…it is clear that yesterdays IFS report was timed to rubbish today’s report.”
      That’s exactly the case. Now you know how impartial the IFS is.

    240. Ken500 says:

      Darling going over the top Is counter productive.

      Sounds deranged.

    241. seoc says:

      Paranoid Westminster’s reaction to Scotland’s legitimate political and democratic ambition should make illuminating educational material for generations to come.
      What is it they are so afraid of? What is lurking in their dark recesses? Is this anyway to treat those they claim are ‘friends’?
      ‘It’s coming yet for a’ that’ – like it or not. Next year, in fact.

    242. kendomacaroonbar says:

      I have often wondered if Ali D’s agressive OTT attitude on the independence debate is somehow a psyscological defence mechanism and retaliatory crutch to help compensate for the London medias savaging of his time in power?

    243. Papadocx says:

      Having great difficulty getting bateman this morning Is it just me?
      Believe mr Carmichael is briefing cabinet this morning on how well the anti jock campaign is going! 
      Then Cameron and co. Will report to the main power source in his country, PRIVY COUNCIL.
      The PRIVY COUNCIL will inform HMQ Who will pass on their instructions to MI5, MI6, GCHQ Press council, BBC etc etc. See how it works now. NB THE PRIVY COUNCIL IS UNELECTED AND UNCONTROLLED! Good Game ey!

    244. MajorBloodnok says:

      What was telling for me this morning was that it was only the Telegraph that had a rabid headline based on the IFS report – both the Herald and the Scotsman were leading with other news.
      Even the BBC item with George Kerevan at 0805 was a bit half-hearted and the interviewer did not sound as though she knew what she was talking about – particularly when she said that a saving of £1bn on defence was ‘not much money’.
      I suspect that Swinney actually welcoming the report as supporting the case for independence, because the main take-away message is that the only way to fix all this is to completely change the economic system in Scotland, took the wind out of their sails.  It all sounded like a busted flush this morning.

    245. Luigi says:

      I heard Angry Darling on GMS today.  What a rant.  He is a bitter man. 
      “Blah blah blah, rage, nonsense, blah bla blah nonsense, blah blah rage, beggars belief, blah blah blah nonsense, nonsense, blah blah, too poor too stupid, beggars belief, blah blah blah, rage nonsense!”
      That more or less sums up the content of his interview this morning.

    246. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      What gets me is that their arguement about incraesing taxes and reducing spending is EXACTLY what ALL Westminster political parties are saying has to happen anyway at the UK level.

    247. Murray McCallum says:

      I hope the IFS finds some time to consider the systemic risk of the SE housing bubble to the entire UK economy. New ways may have to be found to prop up inflated house prices as they are central to Westminster’s economic policy.
      This is what happens when you have disregard for the real economy and place all bets on consumer-driven stimulus.
      “A crash in house prices is one of the fastest-growing risks for Britain’s lenders, according to a survey by the Bank of England. Banks, hedge funds and insurers told the central bank that the housing market was becoming a “bubble” that posed dangerous threats to financial stability. They also warned, in the Bank’s half-yearly Systemic Risk Survey of finance professionals, that a “snapback” in interest rates from the historic low of 0.5% to more normal levels would hit borrowers and send shares, property and debt markets reeling, The Times reports.”
      Source: Hargreaves Lansdown Tuesday newspaper roundup

    248. Luigi says:

      The launch of an economic dossier today seems to be a very good move.  Perhaps it is designed to take the sting out of the inevitable BT MSM attack, when the White paper is launched next week.  Based on the rushed realease of a very old IFS report, and angry Alistair Darling’s panic attack this morning, it seems to have worked.  Should have kept your powder dry, Darling!

    249. liz says:

      The BT group are stirring up trouble for the future. They talk about how we will all have to work together after whether a Yes or No vote.
      But they will be the ones making this impossible because we know they are lying, we know we are being manipulated and we know that the state is rotten to the core.
      What surprises me though is just how many Scots seem to relish the thought of a defeat.
      It is beyond my understanding.
      It just goes to show how vitally important Scotland must be to the rUK and BTW I’m sure the CIA will be in there somewhere, advising.

    250. Edward says:

      Robert Kerr
      Hi Robert, you have highlighted an excellent part of the jigsaw!
      Mossend is actually a railhead run by PDS
      which is mainly minerals , oils and chemicals. They are planning to expand with their proposal for an international freight terminal
      The current main terminal for container traffic is Coatbridge, run by Freightliner (
      Freightliner transport 20′ and 40′ containers to the ports of Liverpool, Felixstowe and Southampton. it should be noted that HMRC ‘regional’ trade data is based on ports of export and not the actual origins, which is why the figures spewed out by the unionists are completely wrong as it doesn’t actually reflect the amount of exports that are shipped from Scotland, which go through English ports (and airports)

    251. westie7 says:

      You took the words right out my mouth!
      O/T As the owner of the original Mossend site has had problems do you have access to any more of it archived?

    252. X_Sticks says:

      Anyone noticed this puff-piece from Andrew Black at the BBC?
      “Scottish independence: What do we know about the SNP’s vision:”
      I think it is obvious from the article where Mr Black’s allegiences lie.
      In fact, where the allegiences of the whole of BBC Scotland lie.
      BBC Scotland now just lie.

    253. westie7 says:

      @X Sticks
      Don’t! I’m at 170/95 today

    254. X_Sticks says:

      Sorry westie7!
      I should have put a BP advisory notice on that! 🙂

    255. Greannach says:

      It must be difficult for Alistair Darling to get it through our thick skulls that he has inside information that he can’t share with us which makes it blindingly obvious to him why we have to stay in the UK. He is frustrated that people don’t get it. To suggest that he is fighting for his career, that his splendour and magnificence stem from his allegiance to the UK or that he belongs to that elevated social class which was educated in private schools to adminster the Empire (although the sun sets on it pretty regularly now) would simply be churlish.

    256. Greannach says:

      Mr Darling’s shrilll approach doesn’t seem to be working. If I were Mr Darling, I would use a different – purely fictional – way to get attention. I would imagine I was a student back in the 1970s, say in Aberdeen. I would imagine myself at a dinner party (How those well-bred Trotskyites loved their dinner parties!) I would draw someone’s attention at the far end of the table and start mumbling to them. They would oblige by saying, “Sorry, Alistair, what was that?”. All eyes would turn towards me and I would be the centre of attention. I could then deliver my words of wisdom to the entire room. I would also try the same approach every time I was in company.

    257. Robert Peffers says:

      Here’s a wee thought for you. The United Kingdom is a bipartite union. All bipartite unions end when one partner leaves. The Bitter Together lot claim to believe that it will end as an rUnited Kingdom, (united to no other kingdom), and a new country, (not a new Kingdom). A new country that was a very old country when the Angles came to give their name, “Angleland”, to their new country. Now let’s look at this from every other European and World organisation that the present United Kingdom is a member in. Why would any of them choose one kingdom as the continuity member and thus expel the other kingdom? Each of these organisations are dedicated to joining together as allies in common cause. So all they need do to maintain their core values and integrity is tell both former partners they are both continuing members. They, the organisations, thus retain both former partners as friends, allies and members and not one, (or the other), as an enemy in their midst. Of course both former partners would need to renegotiate their terms. The organisations thus gain, at least numerically, another member state and retain the assets that were there in the first place. The Bitter Together case is based upon lies, illogical thinking and wishful thinking myths.

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