Applying topspin
There’s a fascinating piece in today’s Daily Record about Andy Murray, and we’re not talking about the gormless expression Andrew Marr pulls in the accompanying photo.
It’s fascinating because it’s a gold-medal example of the art of reporting exclusively true facts while simultaneously saying flatly untrue things about them.
We were watching Marr’s show as it went out on Sunday morning (watch from 5m 20s here), and tweeted about it at the time. Murray was, as he always is, extremely guarded about politics. He chose his words with obviously premeditated precision, and explicitly said that he was undecided and would make his mind up nearer the time.
One particular phrase could easily have been seized on as a coded message of support for the Yes side, but we’re choosing instead to take it at face value and won’t be attempting to exploit it here. The Record, though, has no such scruples.
That’s a rather odd sentence to find in an article whose headline blares that its subject “refuses to take sides in independence debate”, and whose strapline says “The Wimbledon champion refused to nail his colours to the mast as she spoke on BBC’s Andrew Marr show.”
(We’re not sure when Andy changed sex, incidentally.)
The rest of the article doesn’t make any attempt to identify what these alleged heavy hints were, being comprised mainly of quotes from the interview which offer no conceivable grounds for that interpretation whatsoever. The claim seems a total fabrication. But we noticed one other rather telling thing at the end.
“A spokesman for Yes Scotland said: ‘We fully respect and support Andy Murray’s decision to take his time before making up his mind on Scotland’s future direction – and to decide his stance between Yes and No in the referendum on the basis of what is best for Scotland.’
A Better Together spokesman said: ‘Andy Murray has been able to compete and win for Scotland and he has achieved amazing things as part of Team GB. His success shows that you don’t need to choose between the two.'”
Contrary to the assertion made by Marr in the interview (“Like it or not, you are going to be used by the two contending political sides in the Scottish referendum”), one campaign simply respects Murray’s right to make up his own mind, while the other tries to use him to support their argument. It’s a neat encapsulation of much of the No campaign to date – cheap hypocrisy, backed up from two directions by the media.
(In this case, both the Record’s spin and Marr’s “both sides are as bad as each other” misdirection, issued even as he was quite transparently busting a gut trying to get Murray to say something Unionist.)
We hope Andy Murray comes down for a Yes vote, as we hope all Scots do. But unlike the Record, we won’t be reporting his views before he does.
I visited the BT Facebook page at the weekend and obsession there is exactly the same as DR and Marr – British nationalism. Ok, Scottish nationalism appears on blogs and Yes Scotland, but to a far lesser degree because for lots of us this is an issue mostly about society, equality, and the best form of democracy and governance. I used to consider myself a slightly soft yes, but the more British nationalism is ramped up, the sicker I feel.
If you thought the Daily Record was bad you should read Kevin McGuire in the Mirror link to mirror.co.uk
Wee typo in second sentence, presume you meant ‘fascinating’
He was very guarded but I really don’t know what side of the debate he’ll come down on. Personally, I hope he just stays out of it – if he comes out in favour of No it will help their campaign and he’ll have to deal with all the ‘anyone but England’ nonsense if he outs himself as a Yes man.
That Kevin McGuire piece was interesting, I quite like the “anti-divorce” bit. Clearly well-informed is Kev.
Was talking to my other half last night on this subject and the interview. I said to her that it was interesting how Murray talked about Scotland and his love for the country, but would only say that he enjoyed very much playing for GB. He is very careful in what he says but there was a distinction between what he said about Scotland and GB. However, he did say he would decide nearer the time based on what he thought would be best for the country, Scotland that is,
I didn’t see the interview, but the last time I saw him speaking about the referendum, there was something about the way he talked about getting as much information as possible and making an informed decision nearer the time that sounded very much like he could, at the very least, be persuaded to vote Yes.
The way the media leapt on him when he made the Anyone But England quip means he’s rightly extremely guarded about saying anything that could be taken as a slight on the UK. The second the boy announces he’s voting Yes – if that’s what he decides – the media reaction down south will make the ABE kerfuffle seem like a bit of mild ribbing. I can’t blame him for not wanting to get into all that.
But there certainly seems to be a difference between the way he talks about it and the way someone like Chris Hoy speaks about it. But when it comes down to it, does it even matter? It’s hardly likely anyone is going to be swayed to a No because Andy Murray says he’s voting that way. Yes Scotland are definitely taking the correct approach here.
(If he DOES want to publicly declare his support, what better way than to rip his shirt open to reveal a YES t-shirt underneath just after winning the Tennis gold at the Commonwealth Games…?)
As an avid, but sadly (at best!) average tennis player, I would, if vastly more talented, have been delighted to have played for the British Davis Cup team (there being no Scottish team). It would have told you absolutely nothing about my support for independence.
My conclusion about Murray is that, having seen him in his early appearances wearing saltire sweatbands on his wrists, he is a natural “Yes” supporter.
The problem for him is that Wimbledon is genuinely the home of tennis and he would hardly wish to lack support there-perhaps even risk a booing by UKIP/Little Englanders.
If he were a clear “No” supporter, he would have said so already as an easy way of endearing himself to the South of England-plenty of evidence for that given the change in attitude after his Olympic wing and the related Union Jackery.
I suspect Andy will be voting ‘yes’.
Despite the nonsense spin of the article by the record, the fact remains that Murray did not state or hint he preferred retaining the union.
I too saw this interview, and thought, I bet some halfwits from bitter together will try to spin this, despite Murray making it clear he had not decided.
As an aside, did Marr not recently recover from a stroke? The comment regarding his expression may be misconstrued (however innocently intended) by some half wit unionist.
Does he even have a vote? Isn’t he domiciled in Monaco for tax purposes?
(If he DOES want to publicly declare his support, what better way than to rip his shirt open to reveal a YES t-shirt underneath just after winning the Tennis gold at the Commonwealth Games…?)
He certainly won’t be doing that, since it was decided years ago that there will be no tennis tournament at the 2014 Commonwealth Games. He won’t be competing. If anyone would like to drill into that and see whether this was a politically-motivated decision, be my guest.
Doug Daniel
(If he DOES want to publicly declare his support, what better way than to rip his shirt open to reveal a YES t-shirt underneath just after winning the Tennis gold at the Commonwealth Games…?)
Unfortunately the decisions about which sports would be included in the 2014 Games appear to have been made away back in 2006-inevitably not when the SNP were involved, so something else to blame Labour for, though in this case I don’t suppose they realised that Murray was on the horizon in quite the way he turned out.
Anyway, ridiculously, there is NO tennis this time round in the Commonwealth Games
Doug.
Never hurry a Murray.
I’d rather he waited till Wimbeldon and handed the FM a hUge saltire and then ripped off his shirt to reveal his Scotland forever tattoo.
@Doug Daniel
‘(If he DOES want to publicly declare his support, what better way than to rip his shirt open to reveal a YES t-shirt underneath just after winning the Tennis gold at the Commonwealth Games…?)’
Nae tennis at the Commonwealth unfortunately. If Andy wants to come along and do his shirt ripping thing anyway, that’d be fine 🙂
There is absolutely no danger of Murray revealing where he stands on Independence. He has learned the lesson well, after what happened to him several years ago, when in jest, he remarked that he would cheer on any other team in the World Cup except England.
That incident came about as a joke between himself and Tim Henman when they were winding each other up. But thanks to the London based media, they leapt on it and crucified Murray for it.
For me, it’s the lad’s own decision. He lives in England because that’s where his work is. His girlfriend is English, and down south, literally all his friends will be English. Everything around him is English orientated, thus he knows, that even though he is ‘British’, he knows full well, thanks to the media, that he is a Scot.
So… where does he stand? Personally …if he was a deeply patriotic Brit, he would have said so. He could in one master stroke, end all the speculation, by declaring that he loves the Union, and does not want to see the two nations go their own way. If he did that, oh!… the media would fall over themselves. OBE, MBE, Victoria Cross …they would have her majesty throw titles at him!
But he doesn’t…
And in that …I believe, Murray keeps his own council …and quietly, and patiently, watches what happens in his homeland. Should he see that Scotland WILL go its own way, then he may speak out, but if he does, I think it will only be days before the referendum. He may even have learned the lesson that well, that he may never reveal his hand until much later on in his career, when it is in its twilight.
And if he does hold back on where he stands and never reveals, then I for one, am not going to condemn or harass him. The lad suffered enough, thanks to the ‘British media’.
Does Murray even have a vote in the referendum? I thought he lived in the south of England. I hope for his sake he doesn’t come out for either side, because either way he is going to piss off a section of his fanbase. If I were him I would not like to be a political foot (tennis) ball – unless of course he feels stronger about his position now having won Wimbledon and is sure enough of his cause to take the inevitable brickbats if he comes out for one side or the other. (I suspect the brickbats would be far more vicious if they were being thrown by a jilted English media than the other way around.)
I expect Marr’s recent stroke probably contributes towards him looking gormless.
After the relentless bollocking he got from the media after he made the ‘support anyone but england’ comment (which was supposed to be a bit of a sarcastic joke directed at Tim Henman but got totally blown out of proportion by the press) it’s no wonder the guy wants to keep his mouth shut for the moment.
Recomended aid for hard of hearing Journalists ( Phonetic Hearing Aids ) Voice type PCs ( engage brain first ) a roll of duckt tape roon mc quires mooth would stop him saying something that he actualy did nt say ( or did he )
Andy will make up his own mind i’m sure,but remember,he doesn’t have to tell the world what his decision is.Hopefully,he’ll be celebrating another US open victory at that time in 2014.
They are so gagging to have Mr Murray declare aren’t they?
Yes or no he’s a credit to Scotland and deserves his privacy on the matter. There’s plenty of weel kent faces out there making their views known, he’s just not going to be one of them. The media should respect that, I doubt they or BT will, but they should.
@ Robert Louis
Re the stroke that is the first thing that went through my mind when I read about the expression. I think a cheeky wee edit is in order.
As for Andy Murray, it’s up to him, and I support his right to obtain as much information as possible before making a decision and to be left alone while doing so.
As others have said, I think that if Murray truly was in favour of keeping the Union, he’d had said so by now.
I’m actually inclined to believe that he is a ‘don’t know’, like a large number of other folks. But that won’t stop BT trying to corral him as a supporter.
Mind you, here’s a thought. Isn’t Muhammed Ali one of Murray’s sporting heroes? And he wasn’t just a sporting hero – his political stances took him to another level. I’m not saying Scottish independence is a moral equivalent of the civil rights movement.
But if the Yes campaign, for whatever reason, wanted to increase English awareness of the independence debate then I cannot think of a greater catalyst than Murray, the darling of every Middle English home, coming out for it.
I don’t think the question of the independence referendum is easy for any of our Scottish sports people.
Many of them rely on “british” funding to continue their in sport. Much of the coaching infrastructure is under a british umberella. Many of the sponsors are part of the british establishment.
They dare not speak their mind unless they are for the status quo. It’s funny how many of the Scottish sports people who are in support of the union have recieved ‘honours’ from the establishment.
I hope the white paper will have something about sports sponsorship in it. Many of our sporting people might be able to sleep better if they didn’t have to worry about their future in an independent Scotland. Many might decide to declare their stance in the argument.
As for Andy. I think he’s right to keep his cards close to his chest.
Just the same as I do 😉
I wonder how much he, like many Scots will be affected by the FIF once he’s alone in the plywood booth with his pencil?
As an aside, 20 hours and £1100 to go for Scotland Yet, featured here on Wings last week. If any Wingers haven’t emptied their sporrans in Jack & Chris’s direction, now’s the last chance.
I wonder how many other “high profile” Scots are YES and are just keeping their council.
I am sure that Henry Mcleish is at worst on the brink of being a YES voter
There will also be many more Scots with jobs or careers linked to UK that will be voting YES and keeping quiet.
LFI might flush out more Labour sympathisers , did our recent survey not indicate around 15-20% of labour voters in Yes camp?
See when that wee yellow ball comes flying at him, Andy’s awfy good at just hitting it back again. Other than that……. so what?
Rev, O/T but could you do a sroty,s on the SundayPolitics 17/11 FCO spending Etheopian Spice Girls £ 4 mil investment fro the UK taxpayer thes things need Highlighting
I thought the way that the British media have treated Andy Murray is disgraceful. It wasn’t just the throwaway remark that he made, which was part of a jokey exchange, they spent years writing derogatory and insulting articles that were often deeply personal.
As for the way he was treated after that infamous ‘throwaway mark’ was quite simply shameful. Tim Henman was actually there and this is what he says happened link to archive.is
Andy really did get death threats after that, people told him that they wished he had died at Dunblane, which must have compounded a deeply personal tragedy that he’s still unable to talk about. He was little more than a kid and I always thought that the way he was treated was completely and utterly disgusting. And the media and politicians go on about Cybernats!
If he does come out for no, I think a lot of people would be disappointed, but if he comes out as a yes, then I would really worry about the reaction he would get. So I think he’ll keep very quiet about it and I don’t blame him, though I also think it’s an appalling indictment of the British media that he might feel he has to.
I wonder if Andy Marray takes kindly to be refered to as ‘she’ ?
It is nobody’s business what Andy Murray’s views are on the independence debate and Marr, Taylor and McGuire have made total erses of themselves with their behaviour. Let’s not fall into the same trap of believing that the opinions of “celebs” are somehow more important than those of others.
This is symptomatic of the trivialisation of the debate that is one of Better Together’s tactics. Time to move on to what really matters as this excellent article suggests –
link to grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com
Murray would be bonkers to come down for YES or NO and will keep out of it. His professional business and sponsorship opportunities are doing fine and he won’t rock the boat.
I don’t blame him for this at all , except to suggest, that in future political questions are off the agenda in interviews or no interview.
I like Murray and can truthfully declare that although I never saw anything of the Olympics (including the opening and closing events) I did watch the tennis games that Murray played.
Good luck in the next few years and I look forward to Murray being Scottish in tennis events post 2016 if our golfers can do it so can tennis players.
I think most Scottish sports people and indeed many Scots in the public eye will cast their vote privately, in fact most Scottish people will do so anyway. Andy guards his private life and is intelligent enough to know how he would be exploited if he came out for either side (but more so for the Union Jackery), he will be alerted to that Daily Record piece and will become even more guarded. As the referendum moves closer we can expect the Record, and others, to try a bushwhack just about every famous Scot into declaring what side they are on, it fills the columns one way or another with the addition of the obligatory half-truths and spin.
The only win position for Andy Murray is to make no comment, and keep his voting intention private, if he has a vote. And avoid appearing on political talk shows like the Andrew Marr. Even a skilled politician and debater like Alex Salmon found himself a bit wrong footed on a Paxman show – ask a question, interrupt your guest, throw in a gibe, then quickly “and that’s it for this week from the ….show”.
Stick to the tennis, Andy. No point in handing the media bullets to shoot at you.
Does Andy have a vote?
Tax exile? Never in the UK
I think it is pretty clear which side of the debate Andy Murray is on. Here’s a couple of pics of him entering 10 Downing Street after his Wimbledon victory:
link to scottcreighton.co.uk
link to scottcreighton.co.uk
Rev, Just read your facebook update…
link to archive.is
wow.. just, wow… Sometimes you simply have to sit back shake your head and laugh at the desperation that it being shown..
Please like us Andy, please… You say you’ll think about it.. Smashing, well take that as a defo “No” then…
Everyone, everyone, The man from Wimbledon, he say “No”…
BBC politics and news channels going big on the trusted IFS doom laden report today, and the posh burd on politics show said swinney was supposed to appear on the show! but didn’t? He could probably be found rolling about laughing at this state sponsored joke paper, as blatant as any I’ve seen, from the snippets in the media. As with the state broadcaster, it’s more about what it misses out, than what it includes. Oh no Darling now blustering about borders and IFS skint Scotland report on news 24!.Aaaaaaaaaargh!
@Barney Thomson
Let’s not fall into the same trap of believing that the opinions of “celebs” are somehow more important than those of others.
Regrettably, the opinions of ‘celebrities’ probably are more important than those of normal people, because unfortunately some people will be foolish enough to base their opinions on those of their favourite ‘celebrities’, ignoring the fact that being good at some game does not make anyone better qualified to make a political judgement.
Currently Team Scotland would do much better in Davis Cup than Ruk.
If Andy Murray was a definite NO, surely rhe would have said so ages ago? In the “All England” world of UK tennis, there are obvious easons for a player to conceal a leaning to YES. However, there are no reasons whatsoever to hide it if you are a definite NO. I believe a union flag was carefully laid out at Wimbledon last year, just in case Andy wanted to pick it up and fly with it. Oh dear! He chose not to and the field was left to a certain cheeky chappie who flashed the saltire right behind David Cameron!
The “gormless” reference is a bit much considering he recently suffered a stroke, no?
The IFS doom report is complete garbage .
Garbage in by using the discredited OBR figures as the basis of their oil projections.
In 2010 the UK government OBR forecast for oil price this year at $87 a barrel.
To-day’s price is $108.55 that’s about 25% out for a three year forecast yet unionists seem to take the OBR predictions as gospel for a 30 year forecast.
Garbage out as Scottish fiscal position is better than RuKs
A projection forecast over 50 years is just nonsense.
Remember until he was David Cameron’s human shield in Better Together Alistair Darling used to complain the OBR had been politicised by the Tories in London.
So how many other Andy Murrays are there out there just dreading the question of ‘swearing allegiance’ for fear of the aggrevation that comes with a ‘wong’ answer?
I know plenty of people who don’t feel comfortable sharing their views with anybody other than with that little piece of voting paper in the ballot box, and I’m cool with that. Andy should be no different. As I posted on another thread last night…it’s just a matter of time before some clown tells him that his WTA Ranking will drop if Scotland declares independence..I mean winning things on merit ( like University Research grants and Ship building contracts ) cannot be secure in an independent Scotland, as we are continually reminded.
Yours Aye
Andy Murray is in an impossible position in regards to the independence debate. On the one hand, if he comes out and says he is voting Yes, then his sponsors will likely have kittens, and the likes of the Daily Heil will go ballistic. On the other hand, if he supports No then some independence supporters will be disappointed. To be honest, I am surprised Murray has not said that it was a private matter, in regards to how he will vote. Personally, I do not really care either way. If he supports No then I will still support him. Murray has done a lot for Scotland, particularly in terms of his tennis achievements. I personally would not have a problem with him supporting the No campaign. I would obviously not agree with it. Given the circumstance though, it would be understandable.
I thoroughly enjoy the assertions of the variant ‘Andy Murray will vote no.’
Not because for one second I believe them, oh no, but because if I was Andy Murray I would be seeing people telling me what my opinion is and not liking it very much. He is, after all, Scottish. He won’t be enjoying anyone telling him what he thinks
And if I was Andy Murray, and I hadn’t already decided what I was going to do, I’d be far more likely to vote yes and broadcast it from the nearest rooftop.
Just to get it right up them.
I particularly love the way the IFS gets huge publicity for their brand of report. Who commissioned them? Can’t see it in the report, but I noted whose information they base their report on. They’re called the Economic and Social Research Council. A non departmental government organisation. A little bit of research reveals rather a lot.
And this is what their website says about how the board of that organisation is selected.
“Appointments are advertised nationally and members are ultimately appointed by the Secretary of State for Business Innovation and Skills.”
So… established by the UK Government, funded by the UK Government, and council members approved by the UK Government. They’d clearly be totally and utterly impartial, a bit like BBC News. And as for the IFS, they’re trying to predict decades into the future. Certainty of economic trends diminishes year on year and after twenty or so it’s little better than guesswork. The IFS are pulling the pish quite dramatically today. Even if they’re not biased, and I note their council contains several Lords of the Realm and at least one sitting MP, just for information, they’re expecting us to accept their assessment for fifty years. Nah, you’re ok, if I want guesswork I’ll stick with Mystic Meg.
Dan Vevers; it would be, if he hadn’t been talking rubbish about the independence debate well before the stroke occurred. But he was, so gormless remains a suitable assessment.
Remember the backlash a few years back when Andy Murray said he wasnt supporting England in the world cup, then the stramash because he didnt want to curtsy to the Queen.
It is probable that behind the scenes hes been told to zip it or else, it reminds me of the time New Zealand said it didnt want the Queen as head of state, to which the UK used the usual bully tactics, we’ll not import New Zealand Lamb and butter!
I think of even more interest in today’s Record is the continued use of the theme that unionists must not take things for granted re the Referendum result, as if it is already in the bag for them.
They have all been using this device lately and it reeks of desperation!
I think Andy pretty well knew what Marr was wanting, he had at times an almost a smile when Marr was questioning him, all the while he knew what was coming. Andy is not stupid, he knows the situation and the position he is in.
I suspect he will go with his heart and just declare he did not vote, but all the time he will have voted YES. Of course it suits Scotland for him the declare he will vote YES, but not economically clever for him to do that. So he will make both sides wonder as he declares his neutrality with stating he will not vote. But being a betting man, I am sure he will vote YES, his heart cannot be denied.
On the IFS report story, BBC are allowing comment
link to bbc.co.uk
I wonder why?
I’m not clear how he can have a vote. If an ordinary obscure person with parents living in Scotland were to claim the parental home as their main residence for the purpose of voting in September, they’d probably not be challenged. However, everybody knows Andy Murray lives in England. Somebody is going to notice if his name suddenly appears at Judy Murray’s address on the electoral register.
You know, for once, the MSM is actually right.
Saying “I’m not getting involved” when asked “do you support this campaign for *change*” is the weakest form of support possible for the status quo.
Of course, we all know the stats for what happens to people’s voting intentions after they get more information, which is what he’s saying he would need to do.
Technically, I think this would be an example of Reverse Spin rather than Top Spin.
Stay silent on this one, Andy.
I think Scots sportsmen and women are in a no win situation re the referendum. So best keep their opinions to themselves. They’ve all had to compete under GB just because they HAD to, to compete at the highest levels. No wonder they feel loyalty or obliged to their sponsors / trainers etc. All the best facilities are in England.. Its historic. If only they can see that a future independent Scotland would invest heavily in fitness/leisure/sport for our benefit.
Thats why there is a curtain around the ballot box. It’s nobodys business but the voters as to where they place their X. I know of married couples that didn’t know how each other voted. These questions should not be in the interview.
@Morag
Pretty sure Andy Murray owns a hotel in the Stirling-Dunblane area.
I think the fact that anyone has to hide their personal views on Independence is really the issue here. The people who are definitely anti-Independence refuse to talk about it except to quote a couple of misleading and scaremongering stories they have read in the msm and have seen on the bbc. Even yesterday on the BBC programme, Countryfile, the issue of Scotland’s farmers being denied their right to EU subsidy by Westminster was pretty much explained away by the unionist guy, it came across as though the Scottish were moaning for the sake of it and getting a good deal, so what’s the problem? The episode is called Suffolk, if anyone can view it I don’t think it’s on iplayer.
My worry is that Scottish Independence supporters are being silenced especially if they live in England in case of repercussions which is pretty disgraceful and shows that the divide and rule by Westminster and the msm is well and truly alive. We are meant to be a democratic country with freedom of speech? It’s a right to be able to express your views freely without persecution, I’d of thought, unless we live in a tyrannic state of course…
Doomed again. I’ll give it until tea time for the this ‘independent’ report to be debunked by the on-line community with the relevant facts and figures.The Herald.archive.is/EtihyHere is one out today.ifs.org.uk/…/…More info on IFS.link to ifs.org.uk
@Edward.
I had a quick look at the “comments”, the majority were quite virulent and it looks to me that the posters were lined up for their task by the BBC prior to permitting comment.
Sick
A classic of making soup from stones.
The BBC and MSM should read the IFS report as it says:
Assuming North Sea output is allocated on a geographic basis. On this basis Scottish GDP per capita is estimated to have been £29,527 per capita (in 2013–14 prices) compared with £25,024 for the UK as a whole – in other words, 18% higher.
Second, we project how GDP in Scotland and in the UK as a whole would evolve over 2012–13 to 2020–21 if we were to use our long-run model.
From that we can calculate the share of UK GDP projected to be accounted for by Scotland in each year. We then apply those Scottish shares to the OBR’s forecast of UK GDP for the medium term period. This is equivalent to assuming that Scotland and the rest of the UK are both currently operating at the same fraction of their trend output levels, and therefore have the same scope for above-trend growth over the next few years (without inducing inflationary pressures).
So the whole basis of their report is based on an independent Scotland taking the same fiscal decisions as the rest of the UK but that Scotland is better placed than the RuK in the short to medium term.
Anything after that is pure conjecture but that is what the BBC / MSM has picked up on.l
Pretty sure Andy Murray owns a hotel in the Stirling-Dunblane area.
That’s neither here nor there. It’s a business, it’s not his home. He would be criticised if his name appeared against that address in the September 2014 electoral register just as much as if it appeared at his mother’s address. Unless he genuinely lives there at the time. Which I think nobody is going to believe.
Remember, these days you have to give your previous address when you apply to go on the electoral register at a new address, and they then go back and take you off at the old one. Imagine the scandal if Andy Murray did that, and he hadn’t actually moved? (And yes I know he could stay off the public register, but that wouldn’t save him for ten seconds.)
Andy Murray does have property in Scotland:
link to news.stv.tv
Regardless it is his personal vote and he is well able to make up his own mind on the subject. He isn’t likely to say publicly either way what his decision is. He is first and foremost a world class tennis player in everyones eyes. To change that perception could damage is future career prospects.
Do you mean that mere plebs are not allowed to flip their addresses. How damed un fair. Which address is Darling now using.
O/T …
Tycoon Paul Sykes plans to donate millions to UKIP ahead of the Euro elections
UKIP will get a multi-million pound boost from one of Britain’s richest men ahead of May’s Euro elections… and has pledged to do “whatever it takes” to ensure that the anti-Brussels party tops the poll.
link to mirror.co.uk
OT but informative.
So it’s no the weegies that are pittin’ the cone there
Ever wondered how the Duke of Wellington gets his cone?
glasgow.stv.tv
I tweeted last night that I’d never actually seen anyone putting the cone on the Duke of Wellington’s head. And now I know why.
O/T –
It just gets worser – re our Clampett status on oil – yesterdays excellent article by Mr Minto. Headline story on BBC news right now about the “inevitable” rise to our potential independent taxation system or the “drastic” cuts to our public services as the affliction of Scotland’s oil continues to run out and its price is subject to change. These taxes and cuts will, according to the BBC reporting, be based on Scotland’s population aging more rapidly than the rest of the UK (eh?) – so our Project Fear Clampettness, too wee, too poor, too stoopid, is joined by – too old. What would Granny say?
It is a hard one for Andy. If he comes out for Yes the English press will go into a tail spin of hate.
He doesn’t have a vote as he isn’t resident here so my advice to him would be to keep them guessing. He obviously isn’t a campaigning No voter so their is little for the No vote to go after. Didn’t realise the Mirror was still on the go but I suppose if you just make stuff up it keeps the overheads down.
Sorry the link didn’t attach
link to glasgow.stv.tv
Since Andy Murray has had to move around a bit because his sporting commitments, even though he has a home in SE (might under his girlfriend’s name), I wouldn’t be surprised if he is still a registered voter at his parents house.
@Morag
That’s neither here nor there. It’s a business, it’s not his home. He would be criticised if his name appeared against that address in the September 2014 electoral register just as much as if it appeared at his mother’s address. Unless he genuinely lives there at the time. Which I think nobody is going to believe.
Eh it is a property though. Therefore, Andy Murray owns a property in Scotland.
call me dave, your way to generous with your time, it’s been done already!
Meanwhile the Dennis McShane story reminds us how things could be, if we buy into all the rubbish they are trying to force feed us.
Eh it is a property though. Therefore, Andy Murray owns a property in Scotland.
But it’s irrelevant. You don’t have to own a property to have the right to vote. And owning a property you don’t live in doesn’t confer the right to vote.
His Brother Jamie came out in the No camp,a couple of years ago in a q&a in the Guardian,
link to theguardian.com
Since Andy Murray has had to move around a bit because his sporting commitments, even though he has a home in SE (might under his girlfriend’s name), I wouldn’t be surprised if he is still a registered voter at his parents house.
He’s got a home in England. He lives there with his girlfriend and their dogs, when he’s not travelling. He’s not in Scotland that much, and when he is it’s on a visit. Everybody knows that.
Edward says:
18 November, 2013 at 1:26 pm
On the IFS report story, BBC are allowing comment
link to bbc.co.uk
I wonder why?
Some one should really forward that to the Secretary of State for Scotland get his comments on the outrageous cyber abuse of ALL Scots (not just those who are Indy minded) contained within that thread…
@Morag
Look, there are people who job it is to decide who and who cannot vote in the referendum. They will have decided that Andy Murray can vote. I honestly do not see the point in debating it as he obviously has the right to vote and is registered to vote in Scotland.
He’s got a home in England. He lives there with his girlfriend and their dogs, when he’s not travelling. He’s not in Scotland that much, and when he is it’s on a visit. Everybody knows that.
True Morag but the only salient fact is where he is registered on the Electoral Roll….if at all.
As they are publically available it shouldn’t be too hard to find out whether he is still registered in Scotland and thus has a vote or not in the referendum.
Which Local Authority does Dunblane come under these days….?
Wasn’t Murray’s statement at the time of the 2012 Olympics carefully ambiguous? When asked about his allegiance (as if it were relevant) he said: ‘I’m proud to represent my country as part of the Great Britain team’.
So the London hacks were pleased: they interpreted that as ‘ I’m a Brit’ – the ‘country’ being the UK, and he was the ‘part’. But Scots could take it that it was Scotland he was representing.
A propos to these twisted nonsense headlines from a reality that is completely at odds with what the MSM wish to propagandise. It just reflects how much they expect people not to read the body of their keich and filet out what they are reading is just that.
It is a subliminal propaganda technique.
Remember we are dealing with a disseminating octopus which has centuries to perfect the principles and strategy and a recent period of honing the more modern psy-ops in the last thirty or so years.
Marr is about Marr. He will try to make mischief over facts as long as he looks good. It’s all ways been their way. Don’t know why the FM even gave him air.
True Morag but the only salient fact is where he is registered on the Electoral Roll….if at all.
As they are publically available it shouldn’t be too hard to find out whether he is still registered in Scotland and thus has a vote or not in the referendum.
Exactly. However, anyone has the right to ask for their name not to be included on the publicly available register, as used by nuisance call companies and spam merchants. So it wouldn’t be that straightforward to find out, necessarily.
The point is that the full register is available to political parties for election use. You’re not supposed to use it for anything but that, but I wouldn’t bet against a leak if someone who was well known to live elsewhere was registered in Scotland at the time of the referendum.
I don’t see how someone who is well known to live in the Home Counties could get away with being on the register in Scotland these days. And I speak as someone who got away with it for 25 years.
O/T re IFS report
A few pointers on this for people
1. Some positive stuff in there – restating the facts around the current strength of Scotland’s economy (despite the squeals from the reality-deniers at BT).
“In 2011–12, 9.9% of the UK government’s revenues were generated inScotland (assuming a geographic share of North Sea revenues). Since the Scottish population accounted for 8.4% of the UK population, the averagerevenue raised per person in Scotland (£11,079 in 2013–14 prices) was higher than for the UK as a whole (£9,342 in 2013–14 prices).”
“As a result, in 2011–12, the gap between spending and revenues in Scotland stood at £1,550 per person (or 5.0% of national income in total), compared with £2,039 per person (or 7.9% of national income) in the UK.”
2. The IFS then goes on to use the OBR forecasts for the short term crystal ball gazing (all 3 of their recent reports, and a recent report by the CPPR have all uses this same OBR forecast)
“Our basic model assumes that the latest OBR forecasts (March 2013) for spending and revenues for the UK as a whole up to 2017–18 are correct.”
We know the OBR are unbiased, ‘cos Alistair Darling told us so:
“Right from the start the Tories used the OBR not just as part of the government but as part of the Conservative Party. They have succeeded in strangling what could have been a good idea at its birth.”
3. For the medium to long term there isn’t an OBR crystal ball so the IFS uses its own one, based on the assumption that nothing will change.
“Beyond the end of the medium-term horizon, our long-run public finance model uses estimated age–sex profiles of revenues and spending to project the impact of demographic changes on the level of revenues from various sources and public spending on different items. This provides us with a projection for borrowing and debt over the next 50 years for both the UK and Scotland”.
On the other hand ….
“On the other hand, if net inward migration to Scotland were higher than the 9,000 a year that we assume in our basic model, or if revenues from the North Sea were to prove more buoyant over the next few years than the OBR projected in its latest official forecast, or if an independent Scotland took on a smaller share of accumulated UK debt, Scotland could face a smaller fiscal Gap.”
Have you even met a one-handed economist ?
In summary what is says is that if THINGS CARRY ON AS THEY ARE AND LONG TERM TRENDS CONTINUE then Scotland is going to be in a mess in 50 years.
If that isn’t an argument for taking things into our own hands and changing things then I don’t know what is.
Other interesting fact, these IFS reports are funded by the ESRC, which is funded by Vince Cables Business Dept.
They are afraid Andy joins the ‘seperatists’.If they mean by that ‘do you agree that Scotland should be an independent nation?’ then i guess that means that I am a seperatist.Andy will make his own mind up. An address can be changed quite easily.
I think someone in his position paid by taxpayers who takes out a super injunction to hide the truth about having an affair is pretty much fair game for being referred to as gormless.
And that’s without even mentioning the fact that we pay for him to use his position to support the union. Give me strength.
@Hetty, I so agree. Countryfile is available on iplayer now if anyone wants to watch it this is the link: link to bbc.co.uk
Or on Archive.is, if you have Flash: link to archive.is
@Ivan Mckee, your comments are always so helpful and informative. Great antidote to all the scaremongering. Thank you
@Ivan McKee
A report full of “ors” how about “OR if oil prices rise to $200/barrel.”
Yes but…No but…Maybe’s Aye….Maybe’s Naw….
I think Andy Murray received hee haw of funding, in his quest to be World class tennis player, from London central.
Better together? Aye.
So the very information they use for that ifs report is effectively biased lol.
Mocha choca says
”
I wonder if Andy Marray takes kindly to be refered to as ‘she’ ?”
Or Andy Marray for that matter 🙂
On the IFS report and comments on BBC site, there was this:
“It reminds me of my crofting forebears who were forced out by the Argyll estate. They took the first boat out. Thankfully it docked in London.”
This was an argument, it would seem, to remain in the Union.
It’s like George Galloway’s stories of how badly he was treated as a Catholic, while growing up, and that is an argument for staying in the Union, though it all happened as part of the Union.
Why does the Labour party taint every fuxking thing in Scotland –
No real surprise in this but still sucks
O/t
I was listening to BBC Radio 4 last night, link to bbc.co.uk, and was surprised at one of the introductory comments on the Scottish Independence Referendum ( about 2mins in).
“Will all Scots who are 16 or over get a referendum vote? No, not if they reside outside Scotland. Not many people know that but they will if the BBC has anything to do with it”
But no, it didn’t end there. My credulity was stretched even further when heard from Ric Bailey ( the BBC’s Chief Political Advisor) who went on to talk about impartiality.
Despite the fact that there is a consultation going on, and you still have an opportunity to contribute, link to bbc.co.uk, and despite the fact that the results of the consultation won’t be published until March of next year, Mr Bailey has some very firm and interesting views on impariality. Have a listen, if you haven’t already done so.
vambomarbeleye
when you go to vote and the person looks up your name
writes down the number
gives you the voting slip
you mark it with an x and post your vote
what do you think they do with the numbers play bloody bingo
O/T but actually not
On BBC Radio I just listened to the 15:00 news bulletin and the IFS report was quoted about how we would be heading to be a wee poor country if we vote Yes.
As I reached for my special very softball to hurtle at the bloody computer screen (live streaming) they gave the last word to John Swinney.
He said that the IFS projections were based on there being no differences in the path an independent Scotland would take in comparison to what the case is today and upon which their report is predicated upon.
In fact he said, it is a projection of where Scotland WILL be if we vote NO.
Pure dead brilliant!
I really am warming to John S and Nicola S. They are gearing up nicely for the attack phase of the YES campaign.
Bring in AS and it looks like we will slaughter to Nae Sayers.
I am a happy bunny just now.
Radio 5 live at 4 pm today is the first of 5 programmes this week Mon to Frid re: Independence for Scotland.
Today the question is – can we keep / use the £ : Tune in it beats Call Kaye!
Bugger (the Panda)
link to archive.is
The loons are in full swing as the IFS report on BBC Scotland story is open for comments :- link to bbc.co.uk So much ignorance and posts with racist overtones, Remind never look at the comments page on BBC site makes me very angry.
The BBC prgramme talking about Independence, said, ‘Did you know people in England, NI and Wales won’t be able to vote on Independence! Not many people know that.’
This is a situation that is firmly and squarely down to the Unionist politicians. The SNP have a clear, unequivocal position of going for Independence. They were voted in as minority Government in 2007, then majority Government in 2011.
Many years of SNP Government, but the Unionists insisted on saying this wasn’t a vote for Independence, but it didn’t matter if it was or not, they knew the SNP would go for Independence. They had years to inform people of this possibility.
They had years to consider it could happen. Not so much sticking their heads in the sand, as up their own backsides!
BBC radio is really starting to grip my sh 1t.
The other day I actually heard the guy in charge of bias in relation to the referendum say that he is going to be fair.
I suggest that he should have started a few decades ago.
I see there is also a British history session coming up, hot on the heels of the Scottish one.
There is also a history on the Northumberland border and it’s relation with Scotland.
BT overdrive in action.
gedboy
I presume that they don’t give them to Marr.
For those that don’t want to vote for any one. Then you can mark your voters slip as such with the reason why. They then have to be scrutanised by all the candidates. Can’t say that I have ever heard that Joe Blocks defaced his slip getting mentioned after the count.
Amongst all the underhand schemes thought up by the establishment to ensure Scotland stays obedient, subserviant and on its knees, don’t forget we were never supposed to get a vote on independence, the scots parliament was designed so that the chances of one party winning an overall majority was all but impossible (by any other name GERRYMANDERING). THAT IS THE MOTHER OF PARLIAMENTS IN ACTION, FAIR & DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY??? in yer dreams!
Which Local Authority does Dunblane come under these days….?
Stirling
…. don’t forget we were never supposed to get a vote on independence, the scots parliament was designed so that the chances of one party winning an overall majority was all but impossible (by any other name GERRYMANDERING).
No not really. The d’Hondt system is turning out to be very good indeed in my opinon. Motives aside, we were given an excellent electoral set-up. Of course it was chosen for a bad reason, but you can’t call it gerrymandering.
Update
BBC Radio 4 did the same piece and gave A Darling the end piece whilst giving the Yes piece, a 20+ word paraphrase, from J Swinney.
So that is how they will do the balancing act then? Minor time pieces with a emphasis on the Yes side whilst No gets the main bulletins? Cunning, what?
Ivan McKee
I agree. Totally spot on.
The IFS have admitted it themselves, that their theories may not be wholly correct.
“The IFS themselves admit their projections in this report are ‘inherently uncertain and could evolve differently if Scotland were independent rather than part of the UK; in addition they could be substantially affected by the policies chosen by the government of an independent Scotland‘.
Well, uh, Duh!!! Of course in an indy-Scotland, we’re going to have our own policies. One of them will be, ‘don’t get involved in stupid and illegal wars that will bleed a nation dry!‘
The ‘Yes’ campaign have already said, that defence can be set at £2.5 Billion instead of (what is it…) £3.2 Billion (or something like that). Right there, there is a saving!
Gemma Tetlow, one of the authors of the report, said an independent Scotland would face “even tougher choices” than the UK as a whole over the long term.
“Revenues from the North Sea will probably decline and official population projections suggest that the average age of the Scottish population will increase more rapidly than for the UK as a whole, putting greater upward pressure on many areas of public spending,” she said.
What a load of ****ing nonsense! North Sea oil is about to run out again! Last week, we were told there was a £200 Billion bonanza just waiting to be drilled for (just half of that will pay off Scotland’s £100 Billion debt that we will get from the UK if we go indy), and the week before that, I’m sure I read that some group said that there might even be £4 trillion pounds worth of oil out there.
The IFS can say that it is just predicting a possible future. Well then, there is every chance that future rUK governments will allow a second housing bubble to happen, allow the banks and stock firms to continue manipulating the financial markets, and therefore, we end up with a second major crash. I didn’t need a financial degree and to be in the IFS to predict something that could, in all honesty, happen!
Personally …I’ll still take my chances, and vote ‘Yes’…
IFS, Irelevent Funny Storys / Do you think if wee fill up that think tank with OIL wid they flowt or sink, even the guy Carl Emmerson doesent believe what he,s saying Its a Pre DICK tion listen closely to the wording guys n gals , ah asked yesterday where Darling was think of the devil hes sure tae appear, anither round of interview money brings them oot
@Ivan McKee
The IFS report unsurprisingly appears to assume a worst case scenario, with a sharp then steady decline in revenues, I assume based on a combination of falling price and production and a rising extraction costs, but projecting on from the OBR forecasts.
Dunno if you have accurate figures available, but a quick approximation based on current production and this projected rate of decline of revenues seems to suggest only (!) 8billion approx barrels of production between now and when it reaches zero in 2063.
This is obviously well below the current estimated 14-24 billion barrels we hear about.
Maybe I’m clutching at straws to find faults in their report right enough. But it seem unlikely that we would leave between almost half to two thirds of the stuff in the ground.
They are really trying to hammer home the ifs rubbish
Morag
Remember, these days you have to give your previous address when you apply to go on the electoral register at a new address, and they then go back and take you off at the old one.
I don’t think that’s correct. My son was at university until last year and was still registered at home and also where he lived away in another constituency. I think you can be registered in different places but only allowed to vote once.
50mil people in the world claim scots ancestary Ah hope they dont awe wont tae come at the wan time / ah wonder if theres any good football players in that 50 mil theres a big fitba club in Scotland looking fur good players is the FSA
SFA
vambomarbeleye
have you ever tried to take glasgow city council to hand
let me tell you i have and i have been getting nowhere for 15 years
they b%^&*(^s think i will end up dropping it
it was within that i was told how they work if i was a labour supporter my actions would have been settled within days
still get letters telling me that in the longrun it would be better if i dropped my case
lawyers wont come near me at court on my own even the judge insists on keeping the case to see how it turns out
nearly on first name terms with the p.f and yes some councilors turnup
threats bring them on is what i tell them
if it ever finishes would i do it again you bet i would
what im trying to really say is IF its a no vote these c%^&^s are coming after each and everyone of us so dont think those wee numbers at the top of the ballot paper are for the bingo
Radio 5 cherry picking countries over currency union.
link to bbc.co.uk
Ivan Mc Kee( dont argue figures wi me )ah kent you were lurkin aboot, noo is it no about time you were on that telly givin it as is ,no conjecture in you need tae git the crystal baws in that brings they clowns doon a peg
The point Stuart has made is not what AM would vote but the slant put by the awful BBC. What sports stars or celebrities will vote for has absolutely no effect in elections or referenda. I would happily inform the BBC that I will no longer pay their iniquitous licence fee if I could summon the courage to tell my wife she will no longer see Stricty !!
cynicalHighlander
What! Is that it, less than 5 mins of tosh . nothing to write home to your mother about was it.
Worse than an S2 level debate in school. BBC South just don’t get Scotland. Sorry to have got myself excited that perhaps some light might be shed on the currency issue, I should have known better.
‘I should have known better’ that’s a song ain’t it.
**** Strictly
Just listened to a particularly bias package from BBC Radio 5 live complete with interviews with Czech’s who state that they wish they hadn’t split and think they would be ‘better together’ (I kid you not)
You can comment on the programme link to bbc.co.uk
I think Andy Murray will vote YES, but he doesn’t want to come out and say so, at least I hope thats the case, I’d be bitterly disappointed if he voted no.
O/T If I hear another mention on the bias and pathetic media, about the IFS report, claiming Scotland would come up short due to a so called fiscal gap, I’ll blow a fuse.
I don’t think I’ll ever be able to forgive, the Judas Scottish media, for stabbing in the back, Scotlands independence dreams and aspirations.
niether do the news channel.bt agrees with ifs report based on obr that he rubbished
gedboy
Not living within 200 miles of Glasgow. I can’t say that I have had any personal dealings with said council. How ever I will say that it will be an interesting day when labour are kicked out of there and we can have a look at the books.
If Davidson is any thing to go by then perhaps you have reason to be frightened. Why are they voted in year after year.
Brian Powell
Over 50% of Scots voters in 2011 SG elections voted for parties or independents who supported Independence, therefore that is the democratic mandate for calling a referendum.
Some people claim that we should have just declared UDI!!!
JLT
Our Share (If we decide to take it) of the UK national debt will not be 100 billion. Approx 8.6.% of UK assets will also be ours, the share we take on of the uk debt will do down quid pro pro with our share of assets. Off course if they don’t give us a Sterling Zone on our terms we just walk, no debt, no assets, same as Ireland did. They will still have to pay our pensioners and most of the pensions of those about to retire as they have already paid into the UK scheme. Whether its worth it for us to take on some of the UK National debt is for others a lot cleverer than me to decide, but all parties will know in the negotiations that its an option.
I have noticed recently the reporting that Andy will be attending the Downing Street St.Andrew’s bash. I clearly remember it was reported that he would be in America continuing his recovery from surgery and therefore not attending. Very diplomatic of him I thought.
Gedboy, an a lot of the great unwashed dont know aboot they wee numbers,I have had a few runins wi Nth Lan council legaleis Mr Gaffney blind ye wie bullshit, keep on going from expeariance they fuck up in correspondance I read 3 times before I reply best of luck
Jimsie
There has been a lot of miss information, mainly I’ve heard put out by BBC Scotland recently that though a future Scottish Broadcasting company would be based on the assets of BBC Scotland, there would not be a tv licence.
A future Scottish Broadcasting company would be financed (initially) by a licence fee. So the licence fee would continue, but instead of sending it to London, it would stay in Scotland to be spent IN Scotland. This would be in the region of at least a three fold increase of money available. Currently Scotland provides just over £ 300 million, yet BBC Scotland gets something like £ 98 million
A future model state broadcaster for Scotland would be much bigger than what BBC Scotland currently is. As far as programming, it would enter into an agreement to purchase popular programing from the BBC in England, as well as commissioning and increased amount of programming made in Scotland.
So its likely that you would still get the likes of Strictly.
A good representation of what shape a broadcaster that Scotland could have, is Norwegians NRK. For a population of the same size as Scotland, it has a far larger number of TV channels and a number of radio stations for practically the whole of rural Norway. Something that the current BBC in Scotland could only dream about.
NRK I financed by licence, though I think it also has some advertising or sponsorship
EDWARD State controlled broadcasting is inevitably state controlled propaganda. In an independent Scotland I would hope this will not happen.
vambomarbeleye
these guys really know how to play the fear factor
the threats are very severe then you get all sorts of people coming out to visit you for statements dropping papers with all your history that you know you didnt give them
visits to your boss telling him to sack you and if not all sorts of inspectors will be calling h&s tax you name them they will turn up
you mentioned looking at the books
if you ever visit glasgow between now and sept next year visit city chambers and watch truck loads of filling cabinets disappear
and all this because they wouldnt pay a £200 bill
link to theguardian.com,,-1051,00.html
link to electoralcommission.org.uk
Found this wee article which would seem to confirm geboys concerns. Perhaps some thing that needs to be looked at in a free Scotland.
One of the problems with these IFS reports, or other think tank reports is that they were made weeks, maybe even months ago. So when a further £200bn oil bonanza is announced it is not factored into the report because it is already written. That is just one example of how shoddy trying to predict anything more than 12-24 months away becomes especially if they’re working on information, figures and projects that is so out of date it becomes practically guesswork. What all this serves is to get a scare story out into the media and ammunition for Better Together. Fifty year outlook, I mean how can that be creditable, can they give predictions on what the UK will be like in 50 years, and indeed Scotland within that? Pure guesswork based on 2012/13 figures that’s all it is. Ifs, buts and mebbies.
O/T point … YES Facebook has about 103k likes with ‘talking about this’ activity at around 10-11% of that figure. But BT has 95k likes with only 5% ‘talking about this’, that is a helluva lot less activity on their Facebook page considering it is backed by elements from all over the UK. Just sayin’ 🙂
ronnie anderson
know what you mean mate any legal stuff i take to c.a.s to be told its all crap
any letters i get all seam to come when im at the hospital no address just put through the door
and when i go to see them im informed that the letter was sent weeks ago
and a court order has been taken out to keep me away from their offices
which is crap as loads of them know me and i dont take any of their crap im right in their faces and wont back down realy thinking of opening an office in the building and realy piss them off
Jimsie
I have to disagree with you, on the basis that not every state broadcaster is a state controlled propaganda machine. We ARE tainted with having had the BBC, which DOES fit your description.
Every independent nation , as far as I’m aware have their own state broadcaster. It would be upto a future government in an independent Scotland to shape with civic Scotland, and create a broadcaster that would entertain, inform and educate . We really could not leave broadcasting to private companies, such as the likes of Sky as they would not provide the services that would be required, such as providing local radio stations across the outer islands and rural communities, as they have in Norway. I would definitely not model any future broadcaster on the BBC as I would not want any government involvement, which the BBC currently suffers and which is why we have a highly bias BBC.
Andy Murray will vote Aye, mebbe Nae;Andy Murray doesn’t live in Scotland;Andy Murray has a commercial residence in Scotland. Anybody know the rules? If Joe Bloggs works most of the year overseas yet has a home in family in Scotland does Joe have a vote?
There is/used to be a 1/6th rule for expats, meaning that for each six days you were out of the UK you qualified to for one day in the UK and be free from UK income tax liability. Is there a similar ruling for the entitlement to vote? Does Joe Bloggs qualify to vote in the referendum by having a residence, and so an address in Scotland, or by the number of days he resides in Scotland?
To be honest I think Andy Murray has more to focus on with up coming Tennis tourney’s He needs to get into shape after his op.
vambomarbeleye
while im at it 6 days a week you can watch lawyers coming and going all day i forgot to mention i worked in parts of the chambers
ask morag about the book she wrote about lockerbie she knows nothing these basterds know seen it all with my own eyes even moved boxes packed full of peoples belongings
these lawyers are working for these creeps i will even bet any amount of money my house gets turned over soon
next year sit back and watch mark my words people will come out the woodwork about all the cover ups
what stu and others have said about black ops if you think it cant happen and you really really belive not in scotland wake up they are here
stu go back a few months i posted on this site i cant remember what it was about but i think you done a check on me and tor flashed up the reason that was done is because no matter what i do my computer gets hacked its gone now as i dont give a monkeys
@Jimsie
State controlled broadcasting is inevitably state controlled propaganda.
And broadcasting controlled by a multi-billionaire or by a multinational corporation will be unbiased, like Fox News (aka Faux News) in America?
see what i mean i didnt finish there
the reason i dont give a monkeys is because someone has got my side and it is all logged there will be someone reading this that knows what im talking about and shine a light on this and other stuff that has been buried in buildings in glasgow before they to are burned to the ground
accidents my arse arson insurance ye right how can a electr fire start with no elect in the building make your own minds up goodnight
Edward and Scaraben Of course companies like Fox are highly politicised, but you are not forced to subscribe to them as you are with the BBC. Broadcasting must be democratically controlled by a company licensing regime but reception should not be conditional upon paying a fee. That really is extortion.
@velofello
The one sixth rule, along with the 100% income tax concession on money earned abroad, was scrapped in the late nineties. On one occasion I had to take a trip to Ireland to avoid falling foul of it. It was terribly arbitrary; it was possible in theory to lose the concession by going abroad at the wrong time.
Someone I met while working in Uganda had agreed to work there for more than a year only because his salary would be tax free, but then the rules were changed with immediate effect, and he was told that he would have to pay the full UK tax after all, including salary he had already been paid without tax being deducted. Although he was paid an overseas allowance, he did not think that this was adequate recompense for being away from his family.
@Jimsie
but you are not forced to subscribe to them as you are with the BBC.
I do not subscribe to the BBC; I do not have a television. Commercial TV is paid for by advertising, and the cost of advertising is built into the selling price of what is advertised, so that everyone ends up paying for it anyway, whether or not they watch it. Perhaps the least bad solution is a state broadcaster, paid for out of general taxation, and with proper accountability to the public, although how that would be managed I do not know. Al least the BBC, for all its faults, produces some good quality programmes, along with much rubbish.
@ Scaraben – Ha, I retired some years back,early of course, so I’m well out of date on taxation for expats. Question still stands, what is the residence qualification to secure voting rights in the referendum? I’m in with the bricks here in Scotland so I’m alright Jack.I had to do a few trips to Ireland too, and I never felt that I was going abroad, funny that.
Andrew Marr is a scumbag and he showed a huge amount of disespect to Andy Murray by trying to coerce him into saying something he clearly didn’t want to say.
Andy Murray should take a leaf out of Fergie’s book and just tell these cretins in the media upfront that certain subject matters are not on the agenda and if they are brought up then the interview ends there and then no more interviews from then on.
[…] Apparently, today is a dry day as far as news about the referendum goes. So dry, that Andy Murray not coming down on either side of the debate is the most news-worthy event this morning. Both sides have jumped on this story, with the No side saying silence can mean whatever they want it to, and then the Yes side jumping at the chance to appear as high and mighty as possible. […]