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Wings Over Scotland

The people’s other game

Posted on March 09, 2019 by

Watching the Six Nations rugby tournament every year is usually quite a dispiriting experience – not just because of Scotland’s invariably underwhelming performances (broken up by the occasional false dawn), but because talking about it on social media always results in an extremely tedious flood of comments about how rugby is a sport played and watched exclusively by middle-class Tory No voters.

(That’s Scotland skipper Greig Laidlaw there, with Wings mascot Hamish.)

Speaking as someone whose interest in the tournament (in the pre-inflation days when it was the Five Nations) was first sparked when my extremely working-class Bathgate comprehensive school started taking pupils to Murrayfield in the 1980s – 50p for the bus and 50p for the match ticket, which got you a seat on wooden benches actually on the grass – this attitude has always instinctively felt like complete nonsense.

So when we did our latest Panelbase poll during this year’s competition, we figured we may as well actually find out.

We were right, of course.

There’s essentially no difference whatsoever between Yes and No voters when it comes to following the Six Nations, with a majority on both sides taking at least some interest – 56% of Yes voters compared to 60% of No voters – and for keen followers the numbers were tighter than a tight-head prop at 22% to 23%.

Nor was there any noticeable difference across party lines:

Just three points separated SNP and Tory supporters on the subject (with 61% to 58% taking some interest), Labour voters were very close behind them (55%) and Lib Dems rather unexpectedly proved the biggest fans at 72%.

Football allegiance made no difference either, closely mirroring the picture among the general population despite the oft-posited leanings of our two biggest clubs towards Ireland and England respectively:

The people least interested in rugby were also those least inclined to follow football, suggesting that they simply don’t like sport in general rather than there being any intrinsic gulf between the two games. (Indeed, the number who said they don’t follow the tournament at all was exactly the same as the number who said they didn’t support any football club, at 44%.)

Even the class gap wasn’t very significant – a gap of just eight points between ABC1s (59% interest) and C2DEs (51%).

And unusually there also wasn’t very much between Remain (61%) and Leave (54%) voters, a column which tends to show the most dramatic differences on a lot of topics.

So when Scotland take on an ominously in-form Wales this afternoon – a game which everyone in Scotland can watch on telly for free, rather than having to take out an expensive satellite subscription to see the national football team – the idea that only rich Unionists will be cheering them on is complete and utter rubbish.

Flower Of Scotland will be sung a lot better (because for reasons unexplained by this poll data, rugby supporters are actually able to keep time even though they’re allowed to drink alcohol in the stadium), and its line about rising and being a nation again – painfully hypocritical as it is coming from the mouths of No voters who rejected that very opportunity – will be no more incongruous at Murrayfield than it is at Hampden.

It’s time to end that tired old myth along with Wales’ winning streak.

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  1. 09 03 19 11:56

    The people’s other game | speymouth

200 to “The people’s other game”

  1. Jules says:

    Minority sport played by about 7 countries. Surprised you could find anyone who gave a hoot, Stuart…

  2. Lenny Hartley says:

    Excellent, thats what I have been thinking for some time. When I used to go to International Rugby Matches reguarly the split by so called working class to profesional in our group of around 30 was around 90% working class.

  3. Welsh Sion says:

    Best of luck to Scotland, today.

    I hope you come a strong second …

    (Probably the only time of year when I don’t actively support a Scottish cause. Normality to be resumed after 80 minutes – whatever the result.)

  4. Gizzit says:

    The supporters may be balanced, but in 2012-14 I seem to recall a few former players parroting the Unionist script.

  5. jimnarlene says:

    I’m from a working class background and I think rugby is a far superior game to football.
    I hope Scotland win today, but I wouldn’t mind Wales winning the grand slam.

  6. Capella says:

    Another myth punctured.
    The Welsh are good at the singing too. There will be a fantastic atmosphere at Murrayfield. I remember years ago the streams of Welsh fans making their way along Princes street with good humour and a real carnival atmosphere. So may the best team win.

  7. Donald MacKenzie says:

    Where has Jules been hiding. How many teams are in the Rugby World Cup? And it’s not played by over-paid nancy boys who look as if they’re dying in they get tripped up.

  8. Stoker says:

    Well said Rev! Always believed it to be a myth perpetuated by BritNats & their propaganda machines.And all this appointing a parasite as the “patron” of the Scottish game is just one example of their attempts at hijacking the game in Scotland.

    For someone who, many moons ago, spent every waking minute on football i much prefer, from a national point of view, supporting & watching our Rugby squad. And Scottish athletes of most other sports before i’ll watch the football offerings.

  9. Andy_P says:

    I have had the only “watched by public school Tory voting Toffs” line thrown at me a few times. Nice to have something to back my own experiences that the claim is largely unfounded. My own experiences replicate the polls findings.

  10. Fireproofjim says:

    Thanks for puncturing a myth which I always rather believed.
    I will enjoy the match just a little bit more now.

  11. starlaw says:

    not interested in Rugby but I always looked for ward to this game, well events after the game. Welsh fans invasion of Edinburgh led to some really good nights with these guys, never any trouble but plenty of fun and good humour. I don’t care who wins . . . Enjoy.

  12. Millsy says:

    ”Rugby -a game played and watched by middle-class tory No voters ”you said Rev. Have to agree 100% !

    What your poll showed was that most Scots want their country to win – but what was not asked was ”How many Rugby games have you been to ?”
    I want Scotland to win every time – but that does not alter my thinking about this sport in Scotland .
    I believe that the vast percentage of Rugby following types are exactly as we think – middle-class , mostly Tory No voters .

  13. I remember playing rugby for the local comprehensive against one of Edinburgh`s posh schools and we beat them,

    it wasn`t till years later, after boringly telling the story about a thousand times,that i was told that posh schools had about 5/6 teams in the one year and the lowest (the diddies) team used to play in the comprehensive schools 1st 16s league.

  14. Cath says:

    Would be interesting to see the male/female breakdown on this too. I suspect that may be the biggest one, but would quite like to be proved wrong!

  15. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Jules at 11.28
    Wrong. Completely wrong

  16. jfngw says:

    Used to watch it before it became professional, before you were allowed to build pyramids at line outs, scrums became a technique of generating penalties and highly dubious body mass became the norm.

  17. Anagach says:

    Was there a class gap in Football question at any time ?

    I would love to compare, even though I am in the dont support any football club category.

  18. robertknight says:

    Rugby – A thugs game played by gentlemen, as opposed to football – a gentleman’s game played by thugs. Or should that be a gentleman’s game played by divas, given the feigned agony and rolling about whenever they brush up against an opponent. (Only to be up and running at full tilt some thirty seconds after having done a fair impression of a battlefield amputee).

    Can’t remember ever having been at a game of rugby where seats were torn up and hurled at opposing fans, missiles were flung at players on the pitch, or the police presence was required to be of a scale sufficient to grace a Gilet Jaune themed Saturday on the Champs Elysees.

    The ‘Beautiful Game’? Sure, if you class a bucket of smashed crabs as beautiful.

  19. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Minority sport played by about 7 countries. Surprised you could find anyone who gave a hoot, Stuart…”

    Since we’re one of those countries, though, and since we’re better at it than just about any other sport we play as a nation, you’d have to be a bit of a twat to be surprised about it, wouldn’t you?

  20. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Was there a class gap in Football question at any time ?”

    No. The percentage saying they don’t follow football is 44% for ABC1s, and also 44% for C2DEs.

  21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Would be interesting to see the male/female breakdown on this too”

    It is indeed the biggest gap. 34% of men aren’t interested in rugby, vs 54% of women.

  22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The supporters may be balanced, but in 2012-14 I seem to recall a few former players parroting the Unionist script.”

    Just as a lot of former football internationals did.

  23. Muscleguy says:

    I suggest you check out the IRB’s site and then eat your words. Just look at the teams in the World Sevens Series which can feature teams like the Spanish and Belgium. Kenya are long term real competitors at Sevens rugby.

    I have the Android Tribe App which I have configured to give me results from all International matches. I can reveal just from this morning that the USA won a narrow game against Canada. There’s a regular PacRim tournament featuring those two, the Pacific Island sides, NZ Maori and an Australian A side. That’s at least 7 right there and no European sides.

    Georgia are knocking on the door of the 6 nations. Now Sevens rugby is an Olympic sport Russia and China have introduced it into schools (in Russia only Olympic sports may be in schools). Both countries are rising.

    I’m afraid you are simply ignorant about World Rugby.

  24. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Funnily enough @Stoker says at 11:45 am the BritNat Broadcasting Corporation have stopped showing live coverage of said “parasite patron of the Scottish game” belting out Flower of Scotland when she is attending games over the last few years whereas it used to be a feature of the televised match.

  25. geeo says:

    I watch no other rugby except the six nations, and have done for over 40 years (pre 6 nation days).

    I would watch a Wales v Scotland 6 nations over a Scotland v England football match every time.

    Genuine supporter passion over boorish bigotry.

    If our football team had even a tenth of the rugby teams passion, we might just get into a major tournament despite what we lack in talent.

    Looking forward to a great game of SPORT today.

  26. Bugger Le Panda says:

    Met many women who like Rugby but few who like Football

  27. McBoxheid says:

    Scot Finlayson says:
    9 March, 2019 at 11:58 am

    I remember playing rugby for the local comprehensive against one of Edinburgh`s posh schools and we beat them,

    it wasn`t till years later, after boringly telling the story about a thousand times,that i was told that posh schools had about 5/6 teams in the one year and the lowest (the diddies) team used to play in the comprehensive schools 1st 16s league.
    Eh, my boarding school had very small classes at about 15 – 20 pupils per class max. Some as small as 8 pupils. (Not the 90 needed for 6 teams without replacements.) Not everyone who gets sent away to school is; A) A Tory, B) A Toff C) a no voter.

    A large number of servicemen send their kids to boarding schools for reasons of continuation. People working overseas do the same. People that don’t want their kids at home all the time do the same. So do those who believe that their kids will get a better education in a smaller class.

    I would have preferred not being sent away to a Benedictine run boarding school where beatings were regular and paedophiles made up the rules about not talking outside your own age group and not reporting anything you thought was wrong. Bullying and kiddy fiddling was rife, but brushed under the carpet. The school has now closed thank fuck(but that’s another subject.)

  28. Meindevon says:

    The only time I sing GSTQ is when Scotland play England (any sport) and I’m in the presence of my English brother in law. ‘It’s my anthem too’ I remind him to his great annoyance. (It does stick in the craw a bit tho!)

    I’ve always wanted a Murrayfield or Hampden crowd to sing GSTQ out loud to annoy the English but I guess they would deliberately misinterpret it.

  29. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    I enjoy watching the occasional game of rugby at Murryfield always great atmosphere, friendly crowd.

    Usually get beat but usually great losers.

    Oddly no sectarian knuckle draggers or “a minority” wanting to be violent.

    Due to the civilised crown you can enjoy a pint.

    Good way to spend a Saturday.

  30. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Civilised crowd definitely not crown

  31. Ken500 says:

    Limited support compared to other sports. The nature of the game. Too many scrums and mixed ups mud pits. Cold as well. More traditional born into it? Lack of cash or investments? Smaller audiences and events. Some people do not like contact sports or being mauled. They prefer their own space. .

  32. Tom Busza says:

    Just out of interest, should anyone ever venture down to Twickenham stadium and go to the South Stand piazza, you will see a huge piece of Scotland.
    A 27ft bronze sculpture depicting a line-out has stood there since 2010. It was designed by the late pop artist and sculptor Gerald Laing, late of Easter Kinkell on the Black Isle and cast at the Black Isle Bronze foundry in Nairn.
    My elder daughter was involved in making the wax models for casting (the statue comprises some 40+ components which were welded together), and she did some of the casting. After it was presented to an invited audience (mostly relatives of all the foundry workers and Nairn dignitaries) at the foundry – boy, was that some party! – it was transported to Twickenham on 3 low-loaders. It was erected next day in situ behind tall screens. I was told by one of my daughter’s co-workers that, after it was unveiled by Prince William, and as the team involved in its installation was being presented to him, my daughter said, very firmly, “I do NOT work in the office.”,_Twickenham_Stadim,_London.jpg

  33. Ken500 says:

    GSTQ – ‘Scotland to crush’. Not very patriotic.

  34. Martin says:

    I’d be interested to see how respondents define “mild interest” as, from a statistical manipulation point of view you could argue that a majority of Scottish people have no more than a passing interest in rugby. My wife ia trying to get me interested but a combination of frustration that players can’t run into the huge spaces and instead head for a wall of opponents, coupled with the memory of the extremely unpleasant way the “rugby boys” at university used to behave towards women make it a hard slog.

  35. Colin Dawson says:

    I used to attend all Scotland games at Murrayfield during the early and mid 80s when we paid £3.50 a ticket to stand on the terraces. I would get tickets via a local rugby club. That source of tickets disappeared in the late 80s as more and more tickets were allocated to debenture holders and corporate groups. Since then, the price of tickets has skyrocketed and many ordinary supporters have been priced out of attending the matches.

    The survey doesn’t differentiate between those who watch on TV and those who buy match tickets. Given the extortionate cost of tickets nowadays, you may get different results to your survey if you differentiate between these groups. That said, you’d probably struggle to find enough ticket buyers in your sample for the result to be statistically meaningful.

  36. Sharny Dubs says:

    Ah Rugby! The game for gentlemen with funny shaped balls. Yeah yeah I know ladies play to, just a joke!
    Back in the day we would clap for an opposition try if it was a good one, wonder if they still do? I briefly played for Edinburgh Wonderes under 21’s, home ground Murrayfield haha, we had some great times. Remember volunteering to guide a bus load of singing welshmen to the Usher Hall for a coral concert, never any trouble.
    May the best team win, but I hope the best team is Scotland!

    Nice data Rev!

  37. manandboy says:

    As a spectator sport, surveys like Stu’s show that in Scotland rugby is broad-based. However, the players and most of the coaches and administrators are mostly from an independent schools background which is why rugby is part & parcel of the British Class system, which, contrary to public perception, is very much alive, though now less so in the public mind and more so by the gulf between the wealthy few and the rest.

    Independence – it is time.

  38. manandboy says:

    When hearing Welsh rugby fans sing their National Anthem at matches, it gives me the sense that they know who they are. I’ve never felt that from Scottish fans. I suspect it’s because there is little sense of national unity or nationhood in Scotland. Now I wonder how that came about. And why.

  39. Meindevon says:

    Sharny @12.58

    Yep the Ladies do play! Just parked up next to Exeter Chiefs ground to hear the tannoy announce Sarah Brown’s try for England against Italy. Oh and another one for England curiously celebrated with a little bit of The Proclaimers! Haha!

  40. manandboy says:

    Is the rugby on? It has gone quiet on here. Never watch telly myself. Can’t find the time.
    Should Scotland beat Wales by 50 points today, that would be brilliant, but no matter the score, it won’t take Scotland any closer to Independence. For either.

    I was thinking this morning that the UK needs a right good clean out.
    Like a wheelie bin for ‘household waste’ which hasn’t been cleaned for years, the UK has accumulated a very compacted and difficult to remove deposit of decayed and rotten old stuff with a very bad smell. It’s so bad it’s actually quite nauseating. But what’s worse is that we’ve got so used to it we are prepared to put up with it. We’ve forgotten what fresh & clean smells like, and feels like.
    We’re up to our necks in lies & corruption in the UK but, ‘hey ho, that’s life’ seems to be the attitude we’ve settled for. And so the bad smell continues. Choking Scotland.

    Aye, Independence. It is time.

  41. geeo says:

    Jason Smoothpiece @12.40

    You cannot watch that many games at Murrayfield, Scotland has only lost twice there in at least the last DOZEN games.

    Scotland pre 6 nations were ranked 5th in the world. And considering we play ALL our games in top tier rugby rankings, that is no mean feat.

    People try promote Georgia for the 6 nations to replace Italy, as Georgia are higher ranked, buy Georgia play easier teams so rank up easier.

    Italy thrashed Georgia recently, to underline this anomaly in rankings.

  42. Alastair says:

    Jules – such short sighted ignorance.
    Check out the schedule for the upcoming rugbt world cup to see just the qualifying nations.
    I was at a football only school in Airdrie. Joined the local rugby club on leaving school and took to the sport like a duck to water. Our club like many others were ordinary blokes with no pretentions but formed bonds and experiences that have influenced my entire life. I carry a photo in my wallet of my father 12 years old on his first day down the pit. Rugby is a broad church and the better for it.

  43. Giving Goose says:


    Don’t bother cheering Scotland on if you are a No voter.
    If you don’t believe in Scotland as a normal country in control of it’s own affairs then you are not Scottish.
    You are British and they are not represented as a team.
    So f*** off!

  44. Jules says:

    Ok you’ve all convinced me. There must be at least 8 countries that play rugger.
    If you can’t beat em, join em.
    Note to self: buy Barbour jacket; buy Land Rover; buy estate in Sutherland; get myself along to Murrayfield.

  45. ScottieDog says:

    The mascot could be misconstrued as a British lions link I guess.

    Interesting results though. I played at school in the 80s for a comprehensive school in Musselburgh. We would play the private schools – mostly 2nd string and win most of the did feel more posh back at Murrayfield back then yet ironically we had the schoolboy enclosure at murrayfiield at £1 per ticket. The cost now is almost prohibitive.

    The Scottish team was mostly borderers and the Edinburgh white collar private school brigade. It was a huge mistake by the SRU IMO to disband the borders rugby team. That always felt like the working class wing of scottish rugby and was a hotbed of talent.

    On the other hand there has been alot of effort in getting the game into the more deprived areas.

    In my opinion, how we go as a team will always in part be determined by how much we can invest in our schools and as we all know that is in peril.

  46. handclapping says:

    Ah but,
    the interesting thing is the 64% (2014) and 68% (2016) of didnt voters that dont buy into the whole Scotland / nation thing. There are enough of them to make the difference if indyref2 is tight and we’ll not get them onside by bashing our gums about SCOTLAND and saltires.

    As well as persuading soft Nos we have to find out what floats these people’s boats and push what they see as benefits to them that independence will bring

    I hope Angus Robertsons group is on to this and will share their insights soon so we can get it / them in Wee Blue Book version 2

  47. HC says:

    Hope that hearing the Welsh language being spoken in Edinburgh won’t upset you too much, Stuart. Welsh nationalists tend to follow football.

  48. Vronsky says:

    Despite its reputation, rugby is more inclusive than football, which is obsessive and tribal. Not wishing to compel my son to follow in my rugby footsteps I let him join a football club. I watched a few games and in every one he was asked to change and then left standing on the touch line. What a miserable way to treat children. I took him down to the rugby club and he never looked back. And it’s just a local club, no FP shit. The team fae the scheme.

  49. Breeks says:

    Scottish Rugby for me was where my own personal nationalist aspirations began, with Bill McLaren being a true thoroughbred commentator, but occasionally having to turn down the sound on other matches to avoid Nigel Starmer Smith. Rugby commentary was my first real awakening that Scotland was all too often getting an inferior deal to the English, yet it was Scotland which injected all the class into the sports coverage.

    I get where the snobbery about rugby comes from, because it’s a predominant sport in the private schools. However, growing up in the Borders, when the Borders was the true and organic home of Scottish rugby, we used to really enjoy giving these “toffs” a good thumping. Heriots, Watsonians, Accies, StewMel, gave them all a good cuffing back in the day. But out of the ferocious competition, respect emerges, and through representative rugby, solid friendships emerged too.

    Football? Oh behave. All that sectarian shite? I couldn’t even tell you what religion I was, nevermind anybody else. Must be a footballers thing…

    Where I lost my interest in Scottish Rugby was the introduction of professionalism, and in particular the way the vast contribution which the Borders had made to Scottish Rugby was left out in the rain while every man and his dog tried to get a salaried contract in the city. When they struggled to get players, they brought in ringers from the Southern Hemisphere, and watching Scotland was more like watching an Anzac second squad, while home grown talent had to move south to hunt contracts with English clubs. How the fk was that ever going to promote the health of Scottish rugby???

    The killer punch for me was when Frank Hadden sent out a Scotland B squad to face the mighty all Blacks in a Rugby World Cup. That went against every sporting principle I held. I’ve never been to a rugby International since around this time. It simply wasn’t the game I grew up with. And frankly, looking in on rare occasions, the game itself looks much more like a game of Rugby League rather than Union, it’s only missing the sixth tackle rule but I’m sure it’s only a matter of time…

    The rugby grounds dotted around the Borders used to be mighty fortresses. Mansfield Park, Netherdale, Philiphaugh,… and of course Melrose, the home of 7’s rugby. They’re not anymore that’s for sure.

    Maybe the anger will die out, maybe it already has died out, but I felt begrudged that the cities had stolen Rugby from the Borders and given nothing back. Might that be a YES / No factor in the Borders? Well, not in my case. The Borders has its own sense of independent identity. Part of the reason corruption thrives is because “nobody” will tell the Borders what to do. The SNP certainly doesn’t want to know.

    That goes back a long way too. T reach ery is remembered a long time, because injustice festers. I invite you to read the ballad of Johnie Armstrong about a clan of Border Reivers bet rayed by their Scottish King and put to death.

    “I am but a fool to seek grace at a graceless face, but had I known you would have taken me this day, I would have lived in the Borders despite King Harry and you both”.

    There is a degree to which dominance from the central belt is feared, or not feared, but mistrusted by the Borders, and in an Indy Scotland the Borders would be the forgotten backwater it always has been. That’s where the paradox of the Borders Railway emerges… It was the “Borders” Railway, but built for Edinburgh commuters. If they’d listened to actual Borderers, they’d have spent the money on the A7 so you could get past slow traffic commuting to Edinburgh. But no, “You’ll get your Railway, and you’ll be grateful about it!” Ok… If you say so.

    Rejoice! It’s a great success! It is? That’s terrific. I’m so happy. I’ve never used it myself, but I believe I’ve seen the actual train itself twice now. It’s lovely little train so it was.

    However, to get back to rugby. Rather than syphoning off all the juicy bits of rugby for the city clubs, if they’d done it the other way, and you know, tried the novel concept of investing in something that was already there in the Borders, and tried to export the Border attitude towards amateur rugby, where tiny wee towns were veritable production lines for world class players, they might have turned 5m Scotland into the Northern Hemisphere’s 3.5m New Zealand. But hey ho. We’ve got a Railway for Edinburgh commuters instead, and the Border fat cats in the know all did very well out of it, so it’s smiles all around.

    If ye want something done, you’ve just clearly gotta do it yourself. Freedom for Scotland? In some quarters it’s much the same currency as freedom from Scotland. We were making real progress back in 2014. Belief was beginning to open up people to the possibilities, but it all seems like such a long time ago now.

  50. Och, even the Stu dog can indulge in a weee bit of sophistry.
    If Scotland played England at tiddly winks and it was televised, roughly just under 1/5th of any poll would read ‘follow it keenly’, or another 1/3rd mildly interested.
    Rugby in Scotland is, and is promoted as, a middle class fee paying school. gentleman farmer sport, the almost exclusive preserve of the upper reaches of the social pyramid.
    Catch yourself, Stu, recalling being a pupil is the scruff end of education being treated to a subsidised visit to Murray field to sit on wooden benches cheering or the Gavins and Frasers of the elite schools playing rugger.

  51. Ming Mcmerciless says:

    I must admit, a bunch of private school boys and border farmers (both heavy No-voting groups ) singing ‘flower of scotland’ really does get on my tits ! (Even though the song is facile and redundant; and should be dropped by the country )

  52. Republicofscotland says:

    Is it just me or is there a Scottish apathy when it comes to the national rugby and football teams of Scotland. A kind of forgone conclusion that we’re bound to lose, and is this symptomatic of other things for Scots, and is the union to blame?

  53. Ken500 says:

    Give up on the poles and get a life. Might be a better predict. For healthy and happy wealthy life. Stuff and nonsense worrying about what everyone else thinks. 1000 Another defeatist. Get more confidence and optimism,

  54. Ken500 says:

    Ask the bookie or phone a friend. Best out of two. That’s how it ends. A bit chilly.

  55. Ken500 says:

    Borders is a bit unionist or have they changed their minds before they go bankrupt,

  56. Ken500 says:

    Borderers closet Tories written all over the place but plenty of SNP/Ibdependence supporters too. Support rising all the time as a result of the Tory/Unionists raids. Threatening their livelihoods. Getting angry. They might get even.

  57. Robert Peffers says:

    @Anagach says: 9 March, 2019 at 12:06 pm:

    … Was there a class gap in Football question at any time?

    Yes there was. In Scotland the game was strictly amateur but in England they had professionals. This led to many Scottish amateurs signing up to English clubs and the Scots were in great demand as the Scottish passing game was far superior to the English game.

    This was the era of the, “Scottish Professors”, and it also led to the beginning of many English clubs that still dominate English football to this day. Look at many English Clubs crests or shields and you will see many lions rampant.

  58. Famous15 says:

    Labour promising so much but Monica Lemon saying this is not the time for accountancy!

  59. Skintybroko says:

    Andy Nicol one of the most negative Scots ive ever heard – he should be at the Scottish labour conference revelling in “Scotland is Shite”

  60. Famous15 says:

    I hate ad hominem in argument but must say Monica Lemon would in future be a good candidate to replace Isa in still game.

    “Yes it is a challenge outwith the EU. “Ian Murray

    Curtice “How much will it cost and where is the money coming from? Lack of credibility can erode leadership”

    MEP censored says I welcome the apology “Feel sad we are not unequivocally committed to a Peoples Vote.

  61. Petra says:

    @ Tom Busza says at 12:43 pm …. ”Just out of interest, should anyone ever venture down to Twickenham stadium and go to the South Stand piazza, you will see a huge piece of Scotland. A 27ft bronze sculpture depicting a line-out has stood there since 2010. It was designed by the late pop artist and sculptor Gerald Laing, late of Easter Kinkell on the Black Isle and cast at the Black Isle Bronze foundry in Nairn. My elder daughter was involved in making the wax models for casting.”

    Thanks for sharing that information Tom, especially as I’d never heard about this at all (duh!). Made in Scotland? Fantastic. An absolutely iconic sculpture that your daughter was involved in making. You must be very proud of her and rightly so.

    I notice that when you scroll down there is no mention of Scotland at all, as per usual, just outlines – ”Description: English: Statue at Rugby Road, Twickenham Stadium, London, England.”,_Twickenham_Stadim,_London.jpg


    Some info on the late artist and sculptor Gerald Laing.


    And into the future wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could commission this company to make sculptures for an Independent Scotland, starting with one of Stu Campbell, lol.

    ‘A medieval Highland castle and foundry of pop artist Gerald Laing, kept alive by his son.’

    ..”as founder and director of the Black Isle Bronze foundry, one of Europe’s foremost bronze casters.”

  62. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT but did anyone see the baby of the Isis bride ? I saw a young woman with what looked like a pile of rags but no sign of a wee tootsie or fingers.
    I know I grow more cynical by the day but ……

  63. Confused says:

    the Scotland rugby team need to be incentivized

    – I would suggest DECIMATION – but that might not do the job

    – removal of charitable status to fee-paying schools if no world cup or 6 nations championship win inside 3 years


    – or, environmental taxes on new AGAs

    – NOOOO!!

    on the poshville academy v scumbag comp reminiscences
    – I remember playing chess against the toffs as a kid
    – they came out with their top team to play us
    – we fucked them 6-0
    they never played us again. that was it. cant have that. just stop. no more. it never happened.

    the scottish ruggers need to get on drugs – if all the performance enhancers are detectable then they could at least try some DMT
    – they might not win too many games, but there would be a lot of 3am internet posts about the nature of reality – maybe if they talk to the space elves we can get some tactical insight

  64. t42 says:

    The ballgame served as a way to defuse or resolve conflicts without genuine warfare, to settle disputes through a ballgame instead of a battle. Over time, then, the ballgame’s role would expand to include not only external mediation, but also the resolution of competition and conflict within the society as well.

    This “boundary maintenance” or “conflict resolution” theory would also account for some of the irregular distribution of ballcourts. Overall, there appears to be a negative correlation between the degree of political centralization and the number of ballcourts at a site. For example, the Aztec Empire, with a strong centralized state and few external rivals, had relatively few ballcourts while Middle Classic Cantona, with 24 ballcourts, had many diverse cultures residing there under a relatively weak state.

    Other scholars support these arguments by pointing to the warfare imagery often found at ballcourts.

  65. Petra says:

    ”Mhairi Black: It’s delusional to say there is no mandate to hold indyref2.”


    Theresa the Liar.

    Kirsty Blackman at 12:35pm.

  66. Essexexile says:

    A big red brick wall which we just couldn’t get through (except for the brilliantly worked try).
    Plenty of hard graft overall but too many errors again. Think we’ve gone backwards a bit since the Autumn.

  67. Tom Busza says:

    Petra 3.26 pm

    No, that’s just a wiki link to a photo.
    Try this link
    Scroll down, 4th item Times front page.
    You’ll see my daughter, Leona, here

    I always have to smile inwardly at the irony of a Scottish statue (along with other bronzes produced in Nairn) installed at the English RFU’s HQ.


    Commissioning a bronze is gonna involve one helluva crowdfunder

  68. Lenny Hartley says:

    Essexexcile, no we just aint good enough, we are not at the same level consistently as Ireland, Wales and England.

  69. Welsh Sion says:

    Sorry, Scotland …

    Hugs and commiserations all round.

  70. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ho hum, to each his own, I suppose.

    Sport as one of the few residual tokens of nationhood seems more like a baby’s dummy than the real deal. The new “opium of the masses”.

    […] its line about rising and being a nation again – painfully hypocritical as it is coming from the mouths of No voters who rejected that very opportunity […]

    I only wish the poll (any poll) could instead reveal how anyone could possibly indulge themselves in that and feel comfortable in their own skin. If I were in their shoes, I would choke on the words.

  71. yesindyref2 says:

    My expectations were that Wales should win, so it was a game to nothing, and the only worry being we were embarrassing. That didn’t happen and it was a hugely enjoyable game. Wales are the best side in the 6 nations, maybe 1% ahead overall and with the best playing 3 or 4 players in the 6 nations. But it was close, perhaps just 2 or 3 mistakes in it.

    Good luck to Wales next week, high hopes of the grand slam. But for me there’s a good chance we can beat England next week at Twickenham, we just have to get them rattled. A lot to play for there, we’re getting dangerously close to the bottom of the top 8 in the world rankings.

  72. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh yeah:

    world rugby rankings, upadated far quicker than the official one.

  73. yesindyref2 says:

    @Lenny Hartley
    I was going to disagree with you then I noticed the word “consistently”. Yes, exactly. But it’s not much more than a zigzag paper thickness away all the same. Get that precision consistently and we’re maybe just behind Wales, maybe on the same level. Who (I can’t work this out), might overtake Ireland next week in the word rankings into 2nd, if they win.

  74. Dr Jim says:

    Scotland must be filled with the only people in the world who sing about themselves as though they were from somwhere else

    When every other country in the world sings their National Anthems are there words in them hoping for the day when they’re not governed by the country next door (don’t think so)

    If people don’t believe they live in their own country, but live in a colony of someone else’s why are they singing the Nation Anthem of that country (part time Scots?)

    Do the people who are part time Scottish have any pride in our swimmers or runners or any of the other sports Scotland might compete in, or do they only support them when they’re part of the team selected by the country next door to help the country next door win trophies to make themselves look good if or when the country next door decides which Scots are good enough for them to call *British*

    Scots are only ever good enough when *Britain* decides they are, and if they lose they become instantly Scottish again

    They can’t have Scottish losers representing *Britain* now can they

    Not blaming the athletes, they work for money it’s their job

  75. yesindyref2 says:

    By the way, absolutely perfectly timed kick by Anscombe at the end, used up every second to turn the clock red and even made the kick itself. That’s precision.

    I’ll shut up now, but Rev did make it at least half on topic, ta 🙂

  76. ScottieDog says:


    The very time when you’re trying to keep up the tempo – then laidlaw comes on and it’s back to walking pace. (Unavoidable I know with injury to darcy graham)

    We play in 1s and 2s. Wales play as a team.

    Oh how we have missed watson – and barclay.

  77. defo says:

    “Speaking as someone whose interest in the tournament (in the pre-inflation days when it was the Five Nations) was first sparked when my extremely working-class Bathgate comprehensive school started taking pupils to Murrayfield in the 1980s (50p for the bus and 50p for the match ticket, which got you a seat on wooden benches actually on the grass)”

    Went. Solid working class support.
    How on earth can you remember the cost Stu?
    ‘Scooby’ Grant, a psychotic chemistry teacher at Bathgate Academy ran the rugby show, and wasn’t shy of encouraging a bit of jiggery pokery from us when playing. i.e. flatten the mainly posh school oppositions best players. Repeatedly. Often sans ball and out of the refs view.
    All we lessers had to do bar copious amounts of violence, was get the ball to Eliot Bunney. That guy could move!

  78. DebzoHighland says:

    Imagine my surprise when I logged in to Wings and found myself looking back at me!
    Taken in Italy last year after Greig kicked the nailbiting winner. Caught up with him whilst waiting for the Ireland England game on the big screen.
    Hamish travels with me regularly and always gets a good reception.

  79. yesindyref2 says:

    Anyways, about the poll itself.

    I think the very slightly lower YES vote and even party vote, could be because of the clowns that keep talking about rugby being a “BritNat” and upper-class interest, with some naive people believing them.

    If we didn’t have that “tedious flood of comments about how rugby is a sport played and watched exclusively by middle-class Tory No voters

    I think it would be the other way around, because of our higher level of interest and pride in Scotland.

  80. yesindyref2 says:

    One last comment before I watch the second recorded match. I think two weeks ago the main subs should have come on at 60 minutes rather than 65, it didn’t give much time to make up a larger deficit, and some desperation and panic set in. Or we’d likely have won.

    This time Townsend got it spot on at 65 mins, and it almost worked.

  81. Capella says:

    Hi DebzoHighland – are you the lady in the Irish hat? Nice pic. Hamish is looking good too.

  82. Frazerio says:

    Even with facts showing little difference, still some closed minds on here refusing to change their preconceived positions. Dont let facts get in the way of a long held prejudice!!!

    A few more observations. Listening to interviews, pre & post match, and general punditry, the erudition gulf between football & rugby commentary is massive. The limited vocabulary and verbal ticks of the football commentariat totally detracts from my enjoyment of football coverage. The prevalence of ‘listen…’, ‘ehhh’, ‘you know’ or ‘in terms of’ by football pundits must be some kind of disease. Its not a class difference, but probably an education deficiency. What I struggle to fathom is how programme makers can’t find erudite pundits (off top of my head, M Stewart aside (a Yesser)).

    Another point I’d like to make that often frustrates me is the attitude of many Scots against cricket. Often put in the ‘for the posh’ bin that rugby is put in.

    Yes its often promoted, like rugby by the ‘posh’ schools, but you’ll find clubs in ‘working class’ towns like Fauldhouse and anyone who has ever played one of the borders teams will know all about it. My local club (central belt, former mill town, then pit town) is about 170 years old. Football snobs should remember the worlds first ever international match was played… at a cricket ground.

    Cricket is long established in Scotland, from the borders to the highlands. It is also far more inclusive of immigrants than either rugby or football. Ive played alongside more Indian, Aussie, Saffer, Pakistani or Kiwi players than Heriots or Glasgow Accies FPs or English for that matter.

    We might not be fantastic at it internationally, compared to past success in football or rugby, but it is as Scottish a sport as either and is nowhere near an old school tie gentlemans club.

    When folk foist class assumptions (its a posh school sport), or worse, racial assumptions (its an English sport), I think they are really showing up their own narrow ignorance.

  83. Stephen Graham says:

    You could almost see international rugby as a fairly decent analogy of the UK & Ireland.
    England bludgeon their way to victories, Ireland after many years in the doldrums are one of the best in the world, Scotland quick thinking but apt to fail at the first moment and Wales. Well, they fuck the analogy up by winning.
    Isn’t there something about the exception proving the rule?

  84. Abulhaq says:

    It’s all about winning. Psychologically, owing to our chequered history, we’ve been conditioned or allowed ourselves to be conditioned, by you know who, to lose, except that last popularly remembered victory at Bannockburn in 1314!!!, about which we tend to bore the English (in that awful Flower of Scotland dirge) who couldn’t give a fck.
    I blame, in part, that mythologizer extraordinaire of Unionism, Walter Scott and his noble, romantic betartaned losers whose successors are the benighted, proud Scot partisans of BritState.
    We need to learn to win. Rules? Their rules? Who needs them, it’s about survival guys!
    Rugby is a ‘raw’ game… is politics. Scrum down lads and lassies, the field is ours!

  85. Capella says:

    OT Al Jazeera documentary “The Lobby” banned because of Israeli pressure, discussed here by Chris Hedges in a 2 part programme. Part one here:

    The Lobby – USA, a four-part Al Jazeera documentary on how the government and intelligence agencies of Israel work with US domestic Jewish groups to spy on, smear, and attack critics – which was blocked under heavy Israeli pressure – has been leaked online by the Chicago-based Electronic Intifada, the French website Orient XXI, and the Lebanese newspaper Al-Akhbar. To discuss the series in a two-part interview, Chris Hedges is joined by Ali Abunimah, co-founder of Electronic Intifada, and author and journalist Max Blumenthal.

  86. CameronB Brodie says:

    Social consciousness does appear to be more sophisticated than some of our more ‘speculative’ socio-political tropes. That’s why I keep asking Scottish Conservatives if they can really stomach English Torydum.

    Sport, unity and conflict: an enduring social dynamic

    The purpose of this article is largely to serve as an introduction to this special issue on sport, unity and conflict. This was the theme of the European Association for Sociology of Sport conference in 2015, held in Dublin, Ireland. The special issue contains articles by the three keynote speakers of the conference – Randall Collins, Anthony King and Roberta Sassatelli. Each dealt with the theme in different, yet compatible, and highly thought-provoking ways. This article will also attempt to elaborate on the theme and argue for the continued significance of the place of unification and conflict processes within sport, and in the relationship between sport and other fields of social life.

  87. Robert Peffers says:

    @Tom Busza says: 9 March, 2019 at 4:16 pm:

    Wouldn’t it be nice to see these beautiful works of art emblazoned with a Saltire and the caption, “Made In Scotland”.

  88. Essexexile says:

    Spot on yesindyref2 @5.33pm
    Just look at Wales. Rugby is the working man’s game thanks to the historical inter valley rivalry which is why (imo) the atmosphere in Cardiff is better than the other 6 nations. The game is embraced by everyone as a symbol of national identity.
    If only the quasi trots in Scotland could get over themselves for 80 minutes, we could achieve a similar fervour in our support.

  89. Martin Smith says:

    Let’s push thru a change to the wording of the anthem to “And be an independent nation again”?

  90. Robert Peffers says:

    As to the sport of Rugby – “Frankly My Dear I don’t give a damn.”

  91. Tom Busza says:

    @ Robert Peffers 7.15 pm

    I can confirm that the rugby line-out bronze statue at Twickenham does have “Made in Nairn, Scotland” cast on a boot of one of the players. Unfortunately, there was no place in the original design for a Saltire.

    Another one duly marked thus is the War Horse situated in Ascot
    as do all their scultures around the world in USA, Chile, France, Belgium, Dubai, etc.

  92. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Does anyone have snaps of Bouncy Dick delivering his speech? I was looking forward to the traditional Wings conference gallery but it seems Stu body-swerved it in favour of the rugby.


  93. Essexexile says:

    That’s fine Robert, of course. It would just be nice if you did (unless you don’t give a monkey’s about any sport, if so then fair enough!)
    I’ve been lucky enough to live for a short time in both New Zealand and South Africa where the fortunes of the nation’s sports teams are considered infinitely more important than those countries international political standing or domestic politics. It’s easy to understand and that’s how most people like it and can engage with it. It’s where their pride in their nation comes from and it crosses over into their daily lives.
    Let’s be honest, most Scots don’t know or care about what happened in 1707, it’s too long ago and too complicated. If we could just encourage people from all backgrounds to support our national teams (without others shouting ‘class war’) it might help to give us the collective energy to hang all the other stuff off, such as a populist push for independence.

  94. Gary says:

    There’s a MASSIVE difference between those who ‘follow’ the tournament on TV and those who actually attend this and other rugby games in person.

    I went to a formerly private school who utterly refused to have a football team and instead only allowed rugby and cricket. It was completely divided by class then and now. My town has the full set of football, rugby and cricket teams with their own grounds but aside from the football team the clubs exclude access to all but a few…

    People who GO to rugby games are middle and upper class NO voting Tories. There are probably a few who aren’t though, but not many.

  95. Essexexile says:

    Not suggesting that you have a problem with rugby on a class basis btw, Robert. Just in case my post reads that way.

  96. CameronB Brodie says:

    I can’t comment on the political complexion of rugby crowds but I had a similar educational experience. Fortunately I was blessed with athletic talent, so would wind up our head of PE by declining selection to the first XV, as I didn’t want to risk get injured before an important football game the following day. Well, any game really. He still kept selecting me though.

    I’ve been kicking against the pricks since an early age. 😉

  97. yesindyref2 says:

    I’ve seldom seen such garbage in one single posting. Most of the people I went to rugby with were working class, and the supporters of all teams in the pubs and clubs afterwards.

    I’ve been to Cardiff Arms in the old days and the atmosphere was indeed electrifying. But the others I’ve also been to, the old Landsdowne once, Murrayfield many and Twickenham a lot (particularly the 7s) when I lived down there, is also very good.

    Haven’t been since I got married and had kids which doesn’t leave much if any money left over, particularly with the extortionate Murrayfield debenture system, and also moved over to the west coast making it even more expensive!

  98. cynicalHighlander says:

    @Ian Brotherhood says:
    9 March, 2019 at 7:53 pm

    Does anyone have snaps of Bouncy Dick delivering his speech?

    Try Zebedee.

  99. yesindyref2 says:

    If it’s a private school, just 4% of pupils in Scotland are in Independent Schools which includes private schools.

  100. Cubby says:

    Bloody Hell I thought I had logged in to the Scotsmans sport pages by mistake.

  101. CameronB Brodie says:

    Twenty plus years after I left school, it adopted football as a curricular activity. I suppose they acknowledge Scotland caps now, as they didn’t in my day. Bitter? Only mildly. 🙂

  102. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think it was an independent and I was on a bursary. You could say I’m trying to repay that, though I would say that. Eh? 😉

  103. yesindyref2 says:

    Mine was a rugby school, the only playing fields were rugby. We played football in the yard!

    Catholic schools seem to be more rugby than football, and they’re not exactly derived from the upper-class!

  104. skydiver says:

    What is Rugby?

    Is that that game the little Englanders play or am I thinking of rounders?

  105. Cubby says:

    Dr Doom@7.54pm

    “Let’s be honest, most Scots don’t know and don’t care about what happened in 1707, it’s too long ago and too complicated.” – and that’s the way the Britnats like you want it to remain – isn’t it Dr Doom. Yeh just cheer on the national sports teams even louder and independence will follow. What a load of Britnat bull. Pertinent facts and information change opinions.

    Stick to your comments on the rugby and you might convince some people you are not a Britnat.

  106. Essexexile says:

    I’ve only been to Cardiff since the conversion to the Millennium (now Principality) Stadium, but the atmosphere is brilliant, particularly with the roof shut.
    England’s South West rugby towns have a great following from all social classes, especially Gloucester – standing in the shed at Kingsholm isn’t for the faint hearted!
    Most special rugby ground moment has to go to watching NZ Vs Scotland at Eden Park, Auckland. Watching the Haka as the mist rolled in off the harbour and the crowd reached fever pitch will live long in the memory. It was so awe inspiring it scarcely seemed to matter that we were hammered 48-14!

  107. Cubby says:

    Dr Doom@8.30pm

    There you go – good to see you taking my advice.

  108. Wales and Ireland have embraced the `proffesional` side of rugby a lot more than Scotland,

    (France and England have a massive pool of talent compaired with us)

    we still play sports like amateurs,

    where it`s not winning it`s how you win,

    Scotland is the only country in world sports that still condemns cheating as a `legitimate` way to winning,

    even in politics we still play by the rules,where everyone else is winning through inbred corruption.

  109. Essexexile says:

    Cubby, if the more serious regular commenters on Wings represent the best rugby nations in the world, then you are Vanuatu.

    Under 21s.

    With an injury crisis.

  110. Robert Peffers says:

    @Tom Busza says: 9 March, 2019 at 7:45 pm:

    … I can confirm that the rugby line-out bronze statue at Twickenham does have “Made in Nairn, Scotland” cast on a boot of one of the players.”

    Good to know, Tom. I was at a supermarket yesterday and got rather depressed at the number of Scottish products bearing the Butcher’s Apron.

    ” … Another one duly marked thus is the War Horse situated in Ascot
    as do all their scultures around the world in USA, Chile, France, Belgium, Dubai, etc.”

    They certainly are things to be proud of.

  111. CameronB Brodie says:

    Verbal sparring can be fun guys but it’s a distraction. Best keep your composure and strike when the kill is open. That was Bruce Lee’s philosophy and he was hard as feck. 🙂

  112. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I knew B-all about Rugby until eh went ti thah ‘Kirkton Hegh”, where I found myself as 4th reserve in the first match of the season.

    By the second match of the term, I was in the team as left wing three-quarter and scored our equalising try in a match against Linlathen High. 3 all.

    As far as I can recall, all the secondary schools in Dundee had rugby squads and I can recall going on bus trips to that Fife, to play against Madras College. Yes, 1st year at Kirkton Hegh let me see a lot of Scotland on these Saturday days out.

  113. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    That was 1964-65, beh the wye…

  114. Cubby says:

    Dr Doom @8.44pm

    Wow that really hurt. I’ll cry myself to sleep. I have no objections to Britnats like you or anyone enjoying their rugby or any sport but silly rugby comparisons – laughable.

  115. Ken500 says:

    Scotland brilliant at Tennis, Golf, Swimming, Running, Jumping, Boxing, Sking, Racing, Singing, Music, Designing. Art. Who needs rugby or anything else. It’s only a game. Absolutely Brilliant. It’s the taking part and winning. Patience and perseverance. Bruce and the spider. If at first you don’t succeed. Try and try again. Never give up. World class.

  116. CameronB Brodie says:

    Aren’t mums brilliant?


    Sorry Ken500. 😉

  117. Dr Jim says:

    Kenny Farquharson believes the Scottish parliament exists to mitigate every bad decision forced upon Scotland until the day cometh when his beloved Labour party decide to stop being the little helpers of the Tory party, so the SNP should stop spending money on boosting Scotland they should just keep allowing Labour and Tories to do what they want and just spend our taxes on bandages

  118. ScotsCanuck says:

    … when I was asked at school (Ardrossan Academy) why I played Rugby (tight-head prop, got the “cauliflower” ears to prove it !!) and not football, my reply was that I was crap at fitba’ !!

  119. yesindyref2 says:

    I didn’t look at the picture properly, or what Greig Laidlaw was holding in his hand!

    But, exactly.

  120. cearc says:

    Tom Busza,

    Really nice to know about the statue, thanks.

  121. Cubby says:

    Question for the rugby supporters. Is it ok for Scottish independence supporters to support the British lions in general but also what if there are no Scots in the team?

  122. Tom Busza says:


    As the British and Irish Lions are made up of players from the 4 home rugby unions, what happens to the Lions when Scotland’s independent?

  123. Tom Busza says:

    Just heard on the news that the number of U.K. stabbings has increased. 3 teenagers stabbed in various parts of London.

  124. Cactus says:

    SO much better from Scotland, Saturday. We’ve almost returned.

    The Wales team played well but there was an obvious unawareness on their front line, too many gaps, Wales normally very solid with their forwards.

    Ye generally cannae break the forward line of modern rugby, if yer gonnae try tae get through, ye better have received an excellently timed lay-off pass as you’re vocally screaming through the gain at 59mph and score.

    Scotland must always quick-hand play to either winger, in a deep back formation, with the far out winger receiving an American football style pass, running and flying in at a charging pace.

    Yes!, we need to take back our current national anthem.

  125. Cactus says:

    We need to haud on to what Scotland’s got…

    It does make a difference when we make it and not, not.

    We got each other and that’s a lot For Love…

    Wanna give iScotland a shot!

  126. Cactus says:

    AFTER Scotland’s independence 20XX, lot’s of things WILL change.

    We could have a referendum on it… new national anthem?

    We could have a referendum

    We could have

    We could


  127. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Cactus.

    National anthem, with a wee bit of help from France…

  128. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    And when you allow the following videos to play, you find that this a piece of Scottish music that is appreciated all over Europe.

  129. Cactus says:

    That’s what to do and that’s what Scottish Rugby needs again.

    Sure, ye heard the players and the supporters yesterday giving the “heave” sound / roar when in scrum formation / drivethru, but yer team needs an energy tae get it gaun tae get behind it again when we’re on the attack.

    At every given opportunity NOW sing it out loud, louder than befhor.

    Remember yer history:

  130. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Which means that we have a national anthem “in waiting” that is recognised all over Europe. Wha’s like us, iye?

  131. Cactus says:

    Aye, we’re like us bdtt, cheers bro.

    To our Flower.


  132. No, nobody countered my argument that rugby is Scotland is a middle to upper class sport.
    I can’t be bothered but I’d wager that all of the players in the Scotland Rugger squad are from an upper class fee paying school background or from New Zealand with an ancient forebear who was Scottish..
    Such denial, and cack handed attempts to exempt the elitism of Scottish rugby from the YES /No mess seems well, tawdry.
    I know that rugby in Glasgow is exclusively an sport of toffs.
    The lack of any contrary argument on here confirms my assertion.
    Enough already.
    Scotland will never compete at any sport that is restricted to the posh boys.

  133. Cactus says:

    And thereafter indy, The ‘Flower of Scotland’ will have served its purpose.

    Both the questions and the answers are in our musical song.

    Cause thereafter… we WILL be a nation again.

  134. Cactus says:

    Pretty soon ah wouldnae be surprised if Wales and Northern Ireland start joining in with our current and appropriate national anthem, at the relevant parts.

    And speaking of the west country…

    Did anybuddy watch celebtity ‘Pointless’ on a gTV earlier yesterday evening… did you hear the question about the Prince of Edinburgh and where he went on his overseas awards adventures…

    One of the contestants three answers was the Republic of Ireland.
    This answer was taken and put on the board as Ireland.

    Curiouser… +

  135. Cactus says:

    Hehe it’s the Duke of Edinburgh awards isn’t it?

    Ach well, it’s the same shit.

    Different day.

  136. ben madigan says:

    @ Cactus who mentioned the Republic of Ireland and Ireland
    Here’s how Ireland stood vis a vis England in 1978
    and how she stands at the moment vis a vis Brexit

  137. Cactus says:

    As we’re forever-ready-campaigning… try this method out when a previous no voter approaches you, appears to be changing choice and seeks your genuine guidance and wisdom of Yes…

    All you have to do is listen, pause, then say 6 words, which are:

    “You keep asking the right questions”

    And smile. 🙂

  138. skydiver says:


    Keep up the good work.

    Your nightshift escapades’ are very much looked forward to and appreciated.

  139. yesindyref2 says:

    @Cactus “All you have to do is listen, pause, then say 6 words, which are:

    “You keep asking the right questions”

    Absolutely correct.

  140. yesindyref2 says:

    I found a lot of NO voters angry, but one of the common reasons was that they didn’t like being treated like mushrooms. They wanted to be told there were risks and uncertainties. But if you got talking to them which I did because I was sympathetic to that idea and their concerns, they’d also tell me that Project Fear was even worse than YES Scotland and they didn’t believe a word of that either. But they therefore were going to go for the “safe” option – the status quo i.e. NO. As you say, I just said these were genuine questions to ask, do my best to answer them, and recommend they do their own research as both official campaigns were useless 🙂

    I found maybe half or more than half of intending NO voters and the undecided did like the idea of Independence but were unsure if it would work. As Salmond said, there was an underlying majority for YES (I think a very large one), but in the end it didn’t turn out that way. They weren’t convinced, and to be fair, I don’t blame them. Official YES was rubbish, including the useless website or rather, websty.

    Worse thing anyone can do is just dismiss any concerns as “rubbish” – or even worse, use that appalling word “Yoon” or “BritNat”. Or tell them they’re tractors, cowards or stupid as some did. Even with uncertainties some would have voted YES, as long as they were officially acknowledged – i.e. YES was aware of them, and work would have to be done after a YES vote. Scotland’s Future Q&A section wasn’t good, many questions I’d been asked or knew were asked weren’t included and could have been included with “We don’t know yet, but we will find out”. Others were very repetitive with a dismissive answer.

    I used to post many of these on the Sunday Herald as it was always somewhat sympathetic to YES even before it went for Indy, and I was usually first in. Seems to me either YES never bothered reading comments or just ignored them, probably the latter as they didn’t bother answering or even acknowledging emails either – as some NO voters told me. And a couple of YESsers.

  141. manandboy says:


    “The truth is that Britain has become a place where untransparent money, from unknown sources, is widely accepted with a complacent shrug.
    London is the world capital of offshore banking, home to the most sophisticated accountants and lawyers; a third of British billionaires have availed themselves of those services and moved their money beyond the reach of the state, according to a report Thursday in the Times of London.
    Many of them nevertheless continue to make donations to British political parties, and many continue to lobby to keep the rules that favor them exactly as they are.”

    There’s something rotten in the ‘State’ known as the United Kingdom, which we can now see is just a mini-Colonial Empire in disguise.

    Independence – it is time.

  142. Tatu3 says:

    I went to a comprehensive school in Stirling in the 70s. The boys had a choice of rugby, football, hockey and cricket.
    As a girl I played hockey, can’t remember if there was another team sport for us to choose from.
    I used to love getting up early on a cold Saturday morning to go play hockey at “home” or ” away” – We sometimes even shared the bus with the boy’s rugby team.

  143. Essexexile says:

    Reading the Rev’s article again this morning it’s clear there are plenty of people BTL who are in complete denial of the facts about rugby in Scotland.
    Which begs the question, which other facts are they refusing to accept just because they don’t fit their view of the world?

  144. manandboy says:

    Understanding is evolutionary. Understanding Brexit doesn’t happen overnight. A lot about Brexit remains secret, eg. the DUP ‘dark money’, but much more besides.

    And why is the party of Law & Order, the Conservatives, so indifferent, so laissez-faire about the breaking of election law during the Brexit campaign. (As was also the case with Indy2014)

    At the upper levels of Banking, Finance, Big Business and Government in the UK, where secrecy, dark money, money laundering, illegal foreign election involvement, tax havens, rampant tax evasion, a whole world seems to have been created in collaboration with the Tories and the British Establishment, which is outside UK and international law.

    To facilitate this criminal activity by the super-rich and very powerful people involved, a thick blanket of lies & propaganda has been placed over the UK electorate, to effectively keeping them in the dark and to help them remain in their induced collective political coma, in which they are almost oblivious to the secret realities of how the UK is really run behind the scenes at the political and business end of Britain.

    And because understanding is evolutionary, Theresa May is in one helluva hurry to get out of the EU before the voters wake up and learn the truth.
    For this Tory Government, it is a race against the clock to preserve this crooked new empire which has been built up since Margaret Thatcher laid the foundations in 1979.
    What the English electorate do about it is, frankly, their business, but for Scotland there can be only one way forward and that is, obviously, Independence.

    It is time.

  145. Ken500 says:

    Good music vid. The Auld Alliance.

    The lying forces stacked up IndyRef1. It was new ideas for some, quite challenging, but exciting. The usual broken promises which some people were not aware that would be broken. It was still a massive effort, increasing support enormously. The SNP (for fairness) handed the Campaign and the money funding it to others. Incompetents. More control could have retained for efficiency by more experienced campaigners and organisation.

    The unionist authorities were not worried about fairness. Just about winning any lying way possible. Repeat behaviour now recognised and exposed to far more people/voters. Especially the unfairness and criminality around Brexit which has increased Indy support dramatically and demographically. The tide is turning and going only one way. For one oppressed and poorly treated person there are nine other people. Friends, family employers and supporters. That can be seen in the outrage against Westminster policies and cruel behaviour, daily. Fuelling the outrage.

    The next Indy will have an increased organised support. The wider Ibdependence movement is larger and more organised. The oringinal new ideas have been normalised and accepted. So it starts from a higher demographically support. Still underlying increasing. Even after a YES vote it will still take time to hand every power over. Being done gradually now. In any case. If/when the Tories fall.

    The unionists politicians can’t continue to make rash promises. Or they will be easily challenged through the Courts. They already are and losing every judgement. On human rights and other issues just breaking the Law. With shameful ignorance of legal and historical matters. They do not have a leg to stand in because of their behaviour, Europe knows it is important to act with speed and efficiency to give Scotland support, which would happen. They appreciate how difficult and disorganised the unionists at Westminster behave.

    There is now an air of desperation and despondency falling around all the non EU negotiation. With the EU standing strong around principles. Unlike the Tory/unionists have ever down. Betraying all promises, as usual, and reneging on all deals and expectations,. The stagnation of an administration playing out the last rites. Even of exhaustion, finally packing it in. Just waiting for the collapse. How much longer can the intransigence, ignorance and damaging stubbornness of non self awareness badness continue. Not long now by all accounts.

    Many EU members despise the Westminster unionists as much as people in Scotland and realise the problem they cause and create for no benefit. The EU is sympathetic to notions of self govanance. They have helped many countries to self gov in Europe/world for years. Scotland has ties and connection, auld alliances, with many EU/world countries who understand the complexities quite easily. They are plain to see.

    Still under Holyrood good SNP governance. On to victory. Keep right on to the end of the road. Keep right on to the end, A better future awaits. Better than before Devolution etc which lacked benefits and opportunities, The detractors being called out repeatedly. The Tory shambles and mess. Totally unneccessary for so many reasons. A calamity of derision, and lack of rational, that is completely incomprehensible. Even impossible.

  146. john dickson says:

    Just for Jules first post on top, Well over 100

  147. Robert Peffers says:

    @Essexexile says: 9 March, 2019 at 7:54 pm:

    ” … That’s fine Robert, of course. It would just be nice if you did (unless you don’t give a monkey’s about any sport, if so then fair enough!)”

    No it isn’t fair enough. The truth being I just don’t like, or follow the sport of rugby but was a great football fan. Now let me explain that I was a football fan, the game, not a particular club that played the game. As a youngster I couldn’t afford to go to away games but I lived in Edinburgh and Edinburgh had two top teams and two others in the Scottish senior football leagues. Hibs, Hearts, Edinburgh City and Leith Athletic. Normally I would be watching either Hibs or Hearts depending on which was at home. So here you go they were great rivals but I followed both and if I could watch neither there were one or other of the lower division teams within a few hundred yards of my home., (these two shared a stadium). Later I also played in the amateur leagues.

    So there you go – I was a football fan not a particular football club fan. I had other sports interests too but neither rugby or cricket were among them.

    I just had no interest in either and it had nothing to do with nationality – I just had no interest in cricket or rugby among many other sports. There is no law against not following a particular sport.

    However, as to football – it was the game I loved – not any particular club and the result of any particular game was only important to me as to which team played the better football.

  148. Nana says:

    Yesterday The UK Tory party’s Scottish branch spokesperson, Mr Jackass Carlaw said that Keith Brown was proposing a new currency for independent Scotland, and asked if it would cause mortgages to rise.
    Let’s just take a moment to look at Mr Jackboot Car crash’s argument….

  149. Nana says:

    Sinn Fein President Mary Lou McDonald has said that the UK Government are welcome to have their Brexit, but “they won’t take the North with them”.

    Crisis in England’s schools, best tell slab so they can blame the SNP!

  150. Nana says:

    Brexit: Millions face ‘Friday deadline’ to renew passports in case of no-deal, says Which?

    3/ Must listen. The silence is very telling here, after John Whittingdale’s question. @cambridgelaw Prof Alison Young.

    Week in Review: A government of Chris Graylings

  151. Nana says:

    Thread: Decoding the leaked Cabinet memo on Brexit. Exhibit #1 – someone in 10 Downing Street clearly asked: could the Queen block Article 50 extension? Answer: Not without politicising the monarchy.

    Restrictions placed on police leave as Brexit looms

  152. Nana says:

    The May/Juncker & Tusk letters referred to this week.

    Source within one of big 4 supermarkets: if a no deal Brexit, they are sorted for meat, liquid milk and most tinned goods/ pasta etc. BUT… screwed when it comes to fresh fruit/vegetables/butter/cream. Have only 2 days stock in hand. Any panic buying: empty shelves in hours.

  153. Ken500 says:

    Often traditional school sports were seasonal. Athletics and running in the summer. Swimming occasionally if their were facilities, Hockey or team sports in the winter. Or skiving in the library or the bushes. Or just bunking off with fake parental leaders of invented illnesses, appointments or excuses. Amazingly quite successful and not found out or the possibility of capital punishment or boring detention. Not worth the effort.

    Sports can be quite different now. Dancing and movement exercising to pulsating music. Forbidden before. New devices and freedom. More out of curriculum, organised sports activity. Even gym activities, Many schools have been constructed with community pools. The wider community can used at specific hours. Mixed changing rooms, No problem, in fact the opposite. Convenient. A massive expansion of health awareness and food intake and consumption. A variety not consistent previously, as selection was more limited and by accounts more lighter people. Even suffering from malnourushnebt. Less variety and pre prepared meals.

    The almost obsessively increase interest in food, ingredients and cooking. A world expansion of interest in different techniques. Plus the take away outlets. The interest in sports clothes and attire as common clothing. Shell suit and extra tight clothing. A multiple of style, looks and comfort. Sometime not very flattering., quite expensive, giving sportspeople increasing income of endorsement. at a price. ‘How much? on the label’ Shocking but funding sports clubs and business, A big business and money spinner for sports sctivitues and events. Many will pay more to watch.

    So much has changed on the sports fields. From humble beginings Mucking around on the pitch or the car free streets. For many ‘those were the days’. For others maybe not. Just have another curry and a fizzy or alcoholic drink. A few bags of sweetie. An increase in stock.

    A massive increased hit of sugar. The guilty pleasure. They know who they are. Not sustainable when folk get older without a lot more effort. Put down that sugar and fat. Stand away from the plate. Go out running in the cold or campaigning.with like minded people, Maybe limited in some places but people still do their bit, within their capabilities. Caring for others, thanks very much.The Brexit stock piling of essential. Like compiling war rations and shortage. Going back in time. If it comes to that, extremely difficult for so many people, who will be stuck,

    There was once selective education. Less privileged, for the less privileged. Now it is more open with much better opportunities, Not forgetting the army (war) trainiing. Of physical training and exercise, National service now abolished. There is now not a need for it. The EU established to stop war and starvation in Europe has been successful. No need to leave it at all. All good benefit and cooperation. Despite a few abusive nasty Tory notions and misinformation.

    When will the perpetrators be charged and imprisoned for all the criminal Brexit behaviour, exposed daily. There is plenty of evidence. Getting away scotfree all the time is not a solution for example. There is always the prison exercise yard. Or lock in 23 hours. Exercise in the cell. Might concentrate minds of regard and regrets. Still unapologetic for all the Brexit mess and other crimes. The sense of entitledment and privilege on display. Just like the bankers, another crisis. Making people very annoyed and angry they need a bit of exercise. If evenly possible,

  154. Ken500 says:

    @ malnutrition of war and thought. Just should not happen. Killing babies and isolation. Uncaring action. What a world is being created of lack of caring, sympathy, empathy and compassion the world has become. The nasty psycho Tory bastards and others, feathering their best, In discomfort not for long.

  155. Craig Murray says:

    Firstly may I thank you for the opportunity to start a comment with “when I beat Andy Nicol to be elected Rector of the University of Dundee”, he was definitely a rather nasty Unionist. That was ten years or more ago, he may have changed.

  156. Ken500 says:

    Great links Nana as usual. Don’t know how you do it but thanks very much. Topper. Thanks a £Billion. Rev Stu and others. Mr Peffers etc. Too many to mention, to thank for relative information, sense and humour. Kudos. The list is endless but totally interesting.

  157. Ken500 says:

    Tories and others feathering their nest on the misery of others. Not a good look for support. Getting called out repeatedly, on a daily basis,

  158. Breeks says:

    Nana says:
    10 March, 2019 at 9:38 am

    Butcher’s apron does affect sales


    Err, do Puffin Produce sell anything in Scotland? Where can buy it whatever it is?

  159. Nana says:

    Morning Ken 🙂

    Morning Breeks

    I’m not sure if their produce is available in Scotland, here’s their site

    Website here for Scotland’s campaign to keep the brand

  160. Ken500 says:

    The Tories call for ‘national service’. The reason, They can’t get recruits to sign up for their illegal wars and activities. They were supposed to come from reserves, Not very likely. They miss managed the military numbers and cut funding. Now there are personnel short. The young one want ties with the EU to end wars in Europe/world and stop starvation. No one is in favour of illegal wars.

    ‘ National service’ proposals will be so unpopular all round. It will never happen. A transgression into the past. The Tories will be gone out in the wilderness before that ever happens. Their lies and stupidity at the state of collapse. It is just a question when that happen.

    Everyone is waiting for it. Not for Brexit but the Tory collapse. How much longer they can continue with their intransigence and ignorance is just a matter of numbers not going their way, It figures. Like night follows day, No one will bail them out of the pit of their own making. Baying, screaming and howling like fools. Entrenched on all sizes. Folding, moving in for the final collapse. It serves them right. Poetic justice for all their evils and transgressions, They can rot.

  161. Breeks says:

    Nana says:
    10 March, 2019 at 9:38 am
    Article on referendum legality from 2012

    What a pity we are still so vexed about the recognised legality of a referendum there is no time to hold, when it is now only the recognised legality of Scottish Sovereignty which can save us from Brexit.

    Conjecture on a IndyRef seems more of an 2017/18 phenomenon that’s been overtaken by events.

    19 days left to rescue Scotland. Any volunteers?

  162. DerekM says:

    lol i see it is “Bath based blogger” vile cybernat time again Rev.

    Nothing like free PR on a Sunday morning lmao what a bunch of clowns.

  163. Nana says:

    Remember the statements from Ian Blackford and others
    “SNP – “Scotland wont be dragged out of EU ”


  164. IZZIE says:

    I take it David Davies does not do irony Andreww Marr show

  165. Jock McDonnell says:

    Interesting from DD on Marr – he knows of no treaty where one party cannot unilaterally leave.
    I’ll bank that.

  166. Socrates MacSporran says:


    You beat me to it with that post. Exactly what I was thinking.

  167. Ken500 says:

    The Tories called for national services. Now it’s the other irrelevant unmentionables. Trying to feather their nests illegally. Westminster runners one Law for them one Law for others. Totally breaking all Partiamentary Law and all Electoral Law. They think/believe wrongly it will not catch up with them. So used to privilege which they abuse. It will happen when the voters catch up with them. It will all end in tears as usual. ‘It’s not bloody fair’. They will be howling and held in contempt. Just a bunch of opportunists totally unsuitable cowards.

    Like the LibConDems and others. Lie, after lie, after lie. Resulting in the total shambles and chaotic mess. Always blaming others, as they fall to oblivion. Where’s Wally Cameron. Taking illegal £Billions from the Tory slush fund. The total waste of money HS2 and Hinkley Point, Trident etc.

    Clegg now taking Suckerman monies £Millions to destroy the world and democracy with illegal behaviour. Now being called out. Clegg is involved in the attempted cover up. A complete lying hustler. Brown still havering on illegal Tory funding. Tax evading multimillionaire. A sham of poverty concern. Their raison d’etre. Screwing others. The Vow reneged on as soon as the ink was dry, like all other agreements. In order to screw Scotland forever. No more. Enough is enough. People have had enough of it.

  168. Cubby says:

    The Andrew Marr show this morning.

    David ( Diddy ) Davis says ” there is no other treaty that I am aware of where a sovereign nation undertakes to join up and can only leave when the other side says so. So that’s the key point the ability to get out when we need to”.

    Yes there is, it’s called the treaty of union of 1706/7 between the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England and we need to get out of it right NOW. What an ignorant hypocrite.

    The current Tory stance is you’ll have had your referendum and it was too close for comfort , just as well we pockled it with the Vow, but you ain’t getting another one – not now not ever – you might actually win it. We want your revenues so pissoff with your referendum request.

  169. Stoker says:

    For all of you unaware of this bad news. One of our own closes:

  170. Cubby says:

    Dr Doom @7.41am

    You really are a Doom laden sneaky phoney independence poster. Never a good word to say about Scottish independence or the people who support it. Why don’t you argue your true views as a Britnat rather than post your sneaky undermining concern trolling crap. Go on make the case for the UK – you know you really want to.

  171. Dr Jim says:

    *The country* Every time they say it blood leaks from my eyes

  172. Ken500 says:

    Nana’s- Brexit stockpile links comments are hilarious, for a slight but of comic relief. It would be hilarious if it was not so serious, Totally impossible. Stocking up on loo rolls etc. It might be newsprint will actually come in handy for something, if there is any. A load of nonsense down the bog. Bog stardards In any case. No need to recycle the rubbish. Boiled clothes will do. Going back to the 1950’s or the 1900’s.The Tories like a bit of historical mention. To the dark ages. The renaissance people, in the fog, stuck in the bog. Full of excruciating effluence. A sea of mud. The ‘rivers of blood’. Tory principles. Reneged on. Nothing changes, still the same.

  173. mike cassidy says:


    Nana has done her usual fine job on the important links.

    So I’ll just draw your attention to this as we prepare for panic-buying and food shortages.

    Bon appetit!

  174. Craig P says:

    Interesting findings. Men take an interest in sport so they have something to talk about with other guys, even if like me they wouldn’t open their curtains if Scotland were playing Brazil in the World Cup final in their back garden.

    If sport wasn’t reported in the news it would be interesting to know how many people cared or even knew there was a game on.

  175. Gordon McAuslane says:

    Watching Scotland in the Six Nations is truly a ‘dispiriting experience’ and it starts before the game begins with the so-called National Anthem which talks of previous martyrs that fought repeatedly for their humble ‘wee bit hill and glen’, but who once sent a bully king ‘homewards to think again’. The tune too is a miserable lament in its tempo.
    How pathetic; Scotland has the most mighty hills and glens in the British Isles and its people have formed one of the most productive and innovative national diasporas around the world.
    The words are demeaning to modern Scots. ‘But we can still rise now and be a nation again’; What an insult. We are a nation now, who once agreed to amalgamate our parliament with the English one.
    The English National Anthem is equally pathetic. It talks about saving the queen; Nothing about England’s people or land. The only individual who matters in that land is the monarch and the people of that land are chattels who don’t merit a mention. Every other national anthem praises the land and the people who occupy it.
    It’s no wonder Scotland are predisposed to produce ‘underwhelming performances’

  176. jfngw says:

    Of course people like David Davis don’t see any irony, they don’t consider the UK a real union or Scotland as a country. The UK to them is effectively England and the other three countries are possessions.

    I see the Rev has made it into the Herald, we are the cybernats. Definition: anyone that does fall into the unionist agenda or agree with the Yes controllers (this includes some in the SNP who will block you in a second if it promotes their position).

    It’s a concern when you see certain elected SNP people becoming like Labour and assuming they have a right to govern Scotland and ignoring the concerns of their voters.

  177. Sharny Dubs says:

    I used to think flower was a real dirge lacking what it takes to be a national anthem until I voiced this opinion to a French friend of mine. He emphatically contradicted me and told me that the French think it’s one of the best of all, very popular across the water apparently.

    So now I’m having a rethink.

    Good luck today Allez!!!

  178. Cubby says:

    The Andrew Marr show this morning.

    Marr asks Hunt the UK Foreign Secretary if the Hof Commons votes to remove the possibility of a no deal Brexit is May BOUND by that. Hunt answers “she has said she will listen to it and she is a WOMEN OF HER WORD.” Marr presses again is she bound by it – just waffle by Hunt.

    May a women of her word – everybody stop laughing please – the important point is he gave no commitment that even if the Commons votes next week against a no deal that the UK gov will adhere to that vote. Read the words he said ” she will listen to it” – not she will follow it or implement it.

    Leaving the EU with no deal suddenly seems more real.

  179. Nana says:

    For anyone who missed Davis’s comments on Marr this morning

    video here

  180. HandandShrimp says:

    I like rugby. As a game, generally the better team wins which is not always something one can say about football. I do not own a range rover or a picnic hamper.

    I do hope or first choice players are fit for the WC otherwise we are stuffed.

  181. McDuff says:

    Quite agree Gordon.
    Check out Highland Cathederal on YouTube performed by Andre Rieu it’s magnificent
    The mixture of the pipes and orchestra evokes the grandur that is Scotland and is so stirring it had members of the audience in tears. The perfect national anthem.

  182. Petra says:

    I see that we’ve moved on already, lol. I can’t keep up! Anyway thanks for the great links Nana.

    I see that there’s some more interesting information embedded in your ”Police” link.

    ‘Police plan for civil unrest after ‘no-deal’ Brexit.’

    … ”It focuses on the potential consequences for the police service if a Brexit Britain turns sour. Among these are that EU police officers will lose their legal right to carry a warrant card. This would potentially affect 750 officers in the Metropolitan Police alone.”..


    And in the

    ”Anderson Publications is a small not for profit publication company that aims to promote the cause of Scottish Independence and fiscal responsibility through written material and hosting discussion group events throughout Scotland. The income generated from the sale of the publications is reinvested in the company to cover the author’s travel expenses and to produce further material.”


    Some good news. Well worth a read.

  183. Petra says:

    Continuing with your links Nana.


    FGS! Let’s get out of this Union ASAP. EDF Energy and the GMB head offices both based south of the border. They’ll no be giving a damn about radioactive contamination.

    ‘Cracks found in nuclear reactor that could lead to the full evacuation of Edinburgh and Glasgow.’

    ..”The reactors have been closed since October 2018 as a result but owners EDF Energy are currently making a case for turning them back on with help from Union GMB.”

    EDF Energy offices:-

    GMB Head Office:- Mary Turner House, 22 Stephenson Way, London, NW1 2HD.


    And to think that we’ve to put up with all of the cr*p being spouted about Scottish education. Why on earth are these teachers not out on the streets protesting? Maybe we should think of sending EIS General Secretary Larry Flanagan down south to stir things up a bit.

    ‘Crisis in England’s schools, best tell slab so they can blame the SNP!’


    That’s a real eye-opener. Some insight into what’s going on in Northern Ireland …. Westminster.

  184. Dr Jim says:

    It’s hearwarming to hear the BBC agreeing with everyone on how badly Theresa May and the Tories are running *The UK* while at the same time standing by her every non uttered word regarding Scotland’s constitiutional position

    *I mean there’s nothing you can do about it is there* says Gordon Brewar gleefully to Ian Blackford

    For the avoidance of doubt a section 30 order has NOT yet be requested by the Scottish government so whatever the BBC say Theresa May says or will say about an event that hasn’t yet happened is pure speculative hopeful propaganda by the BBC on their part as they’re instructed to do by Downing Street and nothing else, and to keep referring to a section 30 order as permission to hold a referendum is a big fat propagandised lie to assist the propaganda of the people who are against such things and the BBC and the rest of the media know it

    In Northern Ireland Mary Lou McDonald says *England can have it’s Brexit if it wants but Northern Ireland won’t be going with them* and when she says that the entire British media avoid reporting her saying it as much as possible because that’s NOT what the country of England want to hear, but it certainly is what the country of Scotland does want to hear, and needs to hear

    The people of a country, any country, are entitled to have what they want and entitled to demand of their own parliamentary representatives that they voted for carry out their demands especially in the face of another country imposing its will by force of numbers on another

    The Labour party in Scotland has virtually no members left to speak of and that party soley exists to serve the will of the Tory party in *Britain* and everybody in Scotland knows that hence they are in a distant third place at Holyrood exactly for NOT doing what the people who elected them demanded

    If as time passes and the party who Scotland did elect to govern and defend it from others (the SNP) does not do as the people who voted for them demanded it will result in all heil the Tories in Scotland so in some ways a lost referendum is better than no referendum on Scottish Independence,or at least that’s how many might see it

    Me? I’m waiting for *the plan* and hoping it’s positive because if not I dread to think of the consequences of waiting too long and allowing the British state the media and the BBC the time and space to kick the can on and on and on and grind the people of Scotland down till they expect nothing and just give in before we even start

    If 300 hundred Spartans can rip the guts out of a million men to the point where they didn’t want to fight anymore moral battered and were defeated shortly after why can’t Scotland do the same (not literally of course)

  185. Jack Murphy says:

    McDuff ended his piece at 12:05pm:

    “….The mixture of the pipes and orchestra evokes the grandur that is Scotland and is so stirring it had members of the audience in tears.
    The perfect national anthem.”

    Cheers. [smiley thing]

    Here’s the direct link to the Maastricht performance of Highland Cathedral:

  186. Nana says:


    Have a read of this thread

    This is an extremely serious situation if true. The question is why it is only coming to light now. All thanks to Westminsters bloody obsession with nuclear and their failure to develop a proper energy policy for the UK. Time to get these abominations out of the UK for good!

    Also you may not be aware how our council behaved last week
    see here

  187. Cubby says:

    Politics Scotland today

    Brewer says to Blackford ” Nicola Sturgeon said this week quite clearly she would never contemplate a referendum that was done outside permission of a section 30 order.”

    Of course she never said this. Not just one lie but two lies. 1. Sturgeon never said this. 2. The implicit lie that a sect 30 is permission to hold a referendum – it is not.

    Britnat propaganda – just keep repeating lies and people will believe it.

    The BBC the British state controversial state propaganda broadcaster.

  188. Tom Busza says:

    @ McDuff
    @ Jack Murphy 12.27 pm

    Interesting to note that Highland Cathedral was written by 2 German musicians (Ulrich Roever and Michael Korb). Some interesting details here:

    Some of the comments on that YouTube video make interesting reading, beside the expected anti-Scotland/SNP pish.

    “Let me see if I get this right .. You have a diverse European orchestra playing Scottish music and a guy is in the audience waving a Scottish flag and no one bats an eyelid because it pertains to the music being played … This is Europeans being respectful of other Europeans in the context of the moment and their culture … Europe is so diverse and the Europeans respect the difference of their cultures and traditions … Unfortunately there are goverments and institutions trying to destroy this diversity …”

    Highland Cathedral lyrics by David Mackay and Eve Graham can be found here:

  189. Ghillie says:

    He’s got a Hamish!!!

    Yes! That’s me interested in the rugby again then =)

    Hey! Well done Welsh Sion 🙂

  190. Petra says:

    @ Nana says at 12:47 pm …. ”Petra – Have a read of this thread. This is an extremely serious situation if true. The question is why it is only coming to light now. All thanks to Westminsters bloody obsession with nuclear and their failure to develop a proper energy policy for the UK. Time to get these abominations out of the UK for good!”


    Yeah this is absolutely horrendous Nana. Does Holyrood have no control over this? Still ”reserved” to Westminster, eh? No matter what you delve into you find that over and above Westminster calling the shots we have companies / Unions etc that control Scotland, one way or another, all based in England. How in the name of God did we ever get into this mess? And why oh why are the BBC / STV not informing the Scots of these dangers?

    I’ve also been reading through some of the comments, such as at ”@MJKIndependent …. ”What do EDF intend to do about it? Well! The safety limit is 350 cracks, they just want to restart it and have the regulator up the safety limit to 700 cracks. NO BLOODY CHANCE! I don’t give a shit what the cost is for EDF, reactor three should stay off permanently!”


    AND:- ”Also you may not be aware how our council behaved last week. See here:-


    I wasn’t aware of this at all Nana. Another example that highlights that the only political party attempting to protect Scotland is the SNP. If the Tories, et al, ever get total control over Scotland we’ll be fracked and ”nucleared” to death. Or if we manage to survive will have to pay for GP / SNHS treatment. Sad to say many Scots that I speak to have no idea at all that the SNP don’t have full control over any one of our thirty two constituencies. They seem to think that Nicola Sturgeon, alone, is the ”Queen” of all she surveys.

    It looks as though this decision has been made by your local Council and therefore will impact on you Nana: Scotland in general. I’m currently living within 20 miles of Hunterston and 35 miles from Faslane (less so as this is not as the crow, or contamination, flies).

    Scotland play … come dumping … ground for England. Traces of radiation have been found in fruit, potatoes and vegetables near to Dounreay in Caithness, nuclear radiation has made its way into the milk in Chapelcross, Dumfriesshire and into beef around Faslane.

    We’re not just having to contend with the impact of nuclear waste dumping here either. Research findings show that radioactive waste from the Sellafield nuclear plant in Cumbria has made it’s way to Scotland and contaminated our shellfish on the West coast. And that’s what they’re telling us about. They’ll no be happy until they’ve decimated our food and drinks industry, for one, and SEPA is doing what about it? Not a lot it would seem.

  191. Davosa says:

    Some folk on here don’t half talk/write a load of pish.

    If you want to see some good rugby in a cracking atmosphere with a pint in your hand get along to Scotstoun on a Friday night (if you can get a ticket because it is usually a sell out – every game !) to see Glasgow Warriors. Fifth biggest supported sports team in Scotland – including Wendyball – in a city where we the dreaded old firm and the Jags play – we are way ahead of them (Jags) in term of support.

    Like Stu was saying these tired old stereotypes perpetrated on here by some posters are just well feckin tired and outdated.

    Keep up the good work Stu.

  192. Alf Baird says:

    The sample apparently contains just 1002 people and is not necessarily representative. It looks almost like they were all questioned outside Murrayfield on a match day. Lucky if there are even 2% of people in Scotland playing rugby and/or going to spectate. Yet rugby is plastered all over the tv screens and for an annual event that is of dubious relevance, basically an enlarged ‘home nations’ tourney that football associations did away with in the 1970s. Does it not primarily exist for the benefit of sponsors, tv etc? Murrayfield was always the Tory party at play, and is still where the Scottish Tories oft meet. The only match I ever went to at Murrayfield left the enduring memory of several hundreds of private school uniforms and caps, and that was on a Saturday afternoon. Crowds at Tynecastle and Easter Road and Hampden were on a different social planet to Murrayfield. Like being in different countries. I recall the playing fields at Jocks Lodge on Saturday mornings – private schools playing rugby, and us laddies from state schools and the schemes next door at Northfield playing fitba. A sort of sporting and social segregation, setting the pattern for our life chances.

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