The Other Guys
Posted on
December 07, 2019 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Yip.
Very apt.
Very apt.
It’s actually very easy.
On December 12th vote SNP.
Vote SNP on the 12th of December 2019, simples.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The Other Guys Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland The […]
So apt.
What’s a soul to do?
12th SNP I guess.
Let me be clear, that’s an excellent cartoon. And I’ve always made that clear.
According to the BBC Scotland website, a record number of people have registered to vote in Scotland, with 728,148 postal votes. I can’t help being slightly worried about these numbers.
Well we’re all going vote SNP anyway, in spite of every effort to persuade us otherwise. Only another week to go.
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
When you urgently need to fix something in the house, you don’t sit around imagining a perfect tool, which doesn’t exist yet, for doing that job, And you don’t sit around waiting for someone to invent that perfect tool before you tackle the urgent thing that needs doing. Even if someone did invent that perfect tool, he would have to wait for someone else to market it.
If you behave like that, you will sit around for ever in dreamland and, meanwhile, your house will tumble down around you and become one big ruin.
What you actually do in these circumstances is plain common sense: you simply buy the best tool immediately available, and get on with doing the job. So that what needs doing is done as quickly as possible.
Same thing with voting.
There is no perfect Party, and there never will be. You simply look at the alternatives available, and pick the best one for doing the job that you think most urgently needs to be done. The one most likely to prevent everything round about you from falling into total ruin.
It’s a no-brainer.
There are plenty of things wrong with the SNP but, compared to all the other Parties available, it is definitely – at the very least – the best of a bad bunch. And the only one that stands even the slightest chance of getting the most important and urgent thing done.
If you believe Scotland needs independence, and needs it as quickly as possible, you’ve simply got to vote SNP. It doesn’t matter which particular thing you don’t like about the SNP (I have quite a few of these ‘particular things’ occupying large spaces in my own mind), no other Party is going to get anywhere near doing that for you.
What will happen after independence, and who you will vote for then, is another question. One that won’t even arise unless we get independence first. Meanwhile, there is no point in trying to cross bridges to which we have not yet come. In this present election, even to get anywhere near there, we must first vote SNP …
Wouldn’t dream of voting anything else but SNP next Thursday. Any current ‘issues’ can be dealt with AFTER independence, when whoever we have in OUR parliament will be held to much closer scrutiny and account by us who actually live and work in Scotland – don’t do a Scottish football team trick of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (ouch) with a load of in-fighting, and distracting from the REAL issue by creating squirrels and either not voting or voting for someone else next week!!!!! If you don’t vote SNP, then all the effort both before and after 2014 will have been for nothing. Do you really want that?
I’m voting for a cause, not a party. I vote for independence,
therefore I vote SNP.
There is NO alternative.
BUT none of the party reps I’ve met have said that or would ever say that ?
These statements are what voters are saying
I will not be voting SNP on the 12th. The candidate I will vote for is standing for the SNP* but I’m voting for him on a personal level. I would vote for him if he stood as an independent.
I may never vote SNP again in my life unless and until they realise what they are doing with GRA.
Please, please, please Rev, please start a Wings party for 2021.
*Correct at time of posting but some woke idiot is doubtless trawling his social media as I type this.
“Oh no,that will be twice in two years,we are never done voting”
In the name of Jesus and my Uncle George who died in the war for God knows what,get a grip!
I have already voted SNP by post. Lazy b
POSTAL VOTES.. it will be interesting to see how many there are in Scotland
And where they are
I have done a postal vote for the first time
What worried me about the process is that the registering for a postal vote can all be done online
Will councils check the IP addresses to see where the person registering is p actually located ?
I don’t think so
So it’s possible to register for a postal vote whilst you are anywhere in the world
All you need is an address and a willing accomplice in Scotland who will say you are living in Scotland when you are NOT living in Scotland
The postal vote will arrive at the Scottish address and your accomplice can sign it
Having worked for government for decades I know for certain that they have absolutely no way at all of finding out that it was your accomplices signature and not your signature
If you have ever looked at a copy of a signature online for comparison purposes you will know what I mean
Postal votes are open to easy abuse
My postal votes arrived the day before I went on holiday
If they had arrived after I had gone on holiday
My plan was to get a relative to pop into my house and copy my signature onto the postal vote
then post it for me..job done…so easy…disgraceful but many people will do it
Juteman @ 08.43.
If this figure is right it means that between one-fifth and one-sixth of the people registered to vote in Scotland are doing so by post. The BBC article also says that 120,000 people registered to vote in Scotland during the last 2 weeks (or so) when it was still possible to register. Both figures seem very high.
I suppose it all depends on who they are, in each case. If there is a high percentage of holiday home owners in either of the two categories, that would certainly raise suspicions. For the postal votes, in particular, this being a December election, I suppose much of it could be elderly people who are afraid of going out to vote in bad weather. I
All the same, it seems strange that the BBC article does not give comparative statistics for the number of postal voters in previous General Elections in Scotland, including the most recent. Such statistics are surely easily available.
I expect the number of 728,148 is significantly higher than for the 2017 GE. If so, does the BBC not want to point that out to us?
For the 120,000 registering late on, it could be young people who haven’t voted before and/or people who don’t usually vote. In which case, judging by what seems to have happened in the 2014 referendum, I would imagine that the majority of them are more likely to be pro-Indy people, who will vote SNP.
It would also be interesting to know how many of these 120,000 opted for a postal vote. And, yet again, how many of them are registering from holiday homes.
Anyone know how to investigate this stuff? Without proper investigation, it’s all guesswork. But the powers that be (the Electoral Commission, if it wasn’t or isn’t rotten) should be ready immediately with these kind of statistics. If they are not, many doubts will remain. It is not enough that justice be done, it has to be seen to be done.
Likewise, it is not enough that the electoral system be fair – it has to be seen to be fair.
I believe Scotland’s people should be the people making the decisions for Scotland.
The Union of un-equals must be dissolved.
British Empire colonial rule ended.
No more WM Lords and MPs telling Scotland’s people what THEY have decided they will allow us to have. Telling us what we’re getting, whether we want it or no.
If you feel the same way: vote SNP.
Being immersed in sport, I tend to look at voting in Scotland as being like Scottish football.
The Scottish Tories are Rangers. “We are the people;” we have a divine right to rule and you will dae what we tell you – or else. We largely make-up the rules, to suit us, and, if we are in trouble, we own the referees so they will side with us.
Scottish Labour are the pre-Jock Stein Celtic. We used to be good, but, we are now run by a small, self-perpetuating elite and everything is done to suit them. We still come up with the occasional good idea, but, really, we are going through the motions and relying on an ever-decreasing band of supporters to stick by us.
The Liberal Democrats are if you like Hibs. They promise a lot, but cannot deliver consistently.
The SNP are the post-Ferguson Aberdeen. They have lost the guy who took them to the top, but, they still have some terrific players, lacking leadership, and with maybe a wee bit of internal bickering – perhaps the manager has “lost the dressing room.”
You don’t beat the Old Firm by sitting back and letting them come onto you. You get out there, go toe to toe and slug it out.
I don’t think the current manager has got what it takes to get the SNP where I want it to be, top of the league and back in Scotland. I think the current tactics are wrong; the back four is a bit sloppy and the midfield isn’t working hard enough.
But, we have the strikers who can really hurt the Old Firm and get us there, if we give them the support.
So, I will continue to back the SNP, but, I want to see results from theis support – soon.
It’s not normal to use Vote Till You Boak in a First Past The Post General Election, but such are the times I’ll have a bit of sicky coming up having made my one single X in a box.
This whole thing is pretty much an engineered shitshow with folk choosing to focus on various different elements.
That means the result, whatever it may be, is compromised and gives any government formed after the election a dubious mandate to do anything.
“I’m voting for them because I want to stay in the EU”.
“I’m voting for them to keep the UK together”.
“I’m voting to progress the cause of Scotland governing itself”.
“I’m not voting for them because gender…”.
“I’m not voting this time coz I’m waiting for next time when I can vote for that guy who is gonna standardise bread loaves so the slices fit properly in a toasty machine”.
This is just another episode in the divide and rule handbook, and as long as the UK continues to circle the pan like a stubborn jobbie that is scared to take its final journey to the sea, we will be putting up with this shite.
The UK is done.
#euthanisetheunion
Ask yourself this question – if there was no SNP, would independence be on the radar at all?
wull says:
“When you urgently need to fix something in the house, you don’t sit around imagining a perfect tool, which doesn’t exist yet, for doing that job,…..”
…you have look in the kitchen cutlery drawer…there’s usually something in there that will do the trick 🙂
And if there was no talk of independence, would Wings even exist?
Another belter Chris.
Meanwhile Tory candidates in the suburbs of London are promising the Tamil communities a two state solution in Sri Lanka if they vote Tory.
But you Scotland shut up no indyref for you ever, now get back in your box.
This and a million other reasons is why we must vote SNP.
I am in complete agreement with Wull earlier.
I will be voting SNP because I want to live in a normal, healthy, independent country, called Scotland. The sooner the better.
As for the General Election in England, Mr B Johnson may very well be returning to 10 Downing Street. This may just be what is needed at this time.
Trouble with this election is many people will be voting SNP to stop Brexit.
And off course on Friday the tally will be taken and any more than 1.5 million votes for the SNP will be a mandate for INDYREF2.
wull says: at 9:13 am
“…For the 120,000 registering late on, it could be young people who haven’t voted before and/or people who don’t usually vote. In which case, judging by what seems to have happened in the 2014 referendum, I would imagine that the majority of them are more likely to be pro-Indy people, who will vote SNP.
It would also be interesting to know how many of these 120,000 opted for a postal vote.”
Nearly all the new vote applications I collected and handed in to the local Electoral Office were from young and normally disenfranchised folk. They have been awoken now.
Nearly all of them opted for postal votes as polling station is a couple of miles away with little public transportation options to get there and back, or because they were a bit nervous and unfamiliar with attending polling station on the day.
Fingers crossed this new influx of registrations will make a difference.
I commented on this a week ago as I’m doubtful all this recently released polling data could in any way capture this late rush of registrations from newly enfranchised folk.
Great “Toon” Chris.
Nice One.
Scotland- The country that keeps on giving.
England – The country that keeps on taking.
Simples.
Best one-liner in the election – Frankie Boyle in The Guardian this morning:
“I’m fairly sure I just hate her (Jo Swinson) for being from Milngavie.”
Wasted on an English audience.
What wull says at 8:44 am
Leaked UK Treasury files show Brexit will be even more damaging for Scots than first thought.
Vote SNP in this GE, and for independence or face the terrible consequences.
link to thenational.scot
“Scottish councils are shelling out millions more in debt payments as a result of a Treasury clampdown on English councils’ high risk investments.”
This unfit for purpose union is draining Scottish resources in all manner of ways. We must vote SNP or continue to see or resources squandred by Westminster.
link to mobile.twitter.com
The Courier featuring ‘indy blogger calls for Sturgeon to resign’ this morning.
Anyone care to explain to me how that helps anything?
“The Courier featuring ‘indy blogger calls for Sturgeon to resign’ this morning. Anyone care to explain to me how that helps anything?”
Well, because it would help if she did.
Finally.
So now the Lib/Dem leader who’s in the pocket of the puberty blocker producers, is calling the possibility of a second indyref a threat, since when is a democratic peoples referendum a threat.
Certainly not when its a second Brexit vote, only when its a Scottish independence referendum vote.
Vote SNP or she’ll get her way.
link to archive.md
Take nothing for granted, we still have to, even if holding our noses, get out there on Thursday and vote SNP, but, when both The Herald and The Courier are running stories designed to make the SNP appear to be losing – we are winning.
So, get the vote out, and really jump ont he Unionists.
We can sort ourselves out properly, once we win Indyref2.
Let’s steal their clothers:
GET INDEPENDENCE DONE has a nice ring to it.
ScotsRenewables @ 9-35
“As you sow, so shall you reap”
Should be Wings new motto.
On increase on postal votes. Remember the simple stuff – it’s winter. Many people will not want to visit a polling station on a dark winters day.
As for the polls, it looks pretty clear now that the Tories will win a majority unless all of the pollsters have it wrong, which of course they could. So my questions are this based on a Tory majority-
What do the SNP do now ? is there any chance the Tories will not wait until the end of January to leave the EU and try and push something through now ?
I know that the SNP are far from perfect, but I’ll be voting for them on Thursday. I won’t even have to hold my nose to do it.
ScotsRenewables says:
7 December, 2019 at 10:35 am
The Courier featuring ‘indy blogger calls for Sturgeon to resign’ this morning.
Anyone care to explain to me how that helps anything?
Nicola Sturgeon standing beside the Lib Dem’s “STOP BREXIT” bus.
Anyone care to explain how that helps Scottish Independence?
I’ll be voting SNP on Thursday. No ifs or buts. Anything else is a certain vote for the union.
The first thing we must now underxtand completely is that Scotland is now engaged in a fight for its very existance as a country. Indeed I would go further and say as an entity at all.
The Tories did not put thousands of civil servants here for no reason They are not talking about taking over aspects of Scottish Government devolved issues for no reason. Talk of Holyrood closure because of SNP inefficiency also raises its head, as does the talks in the House of Lords about a new Treaty of Union.
They aim to control Scotland completely. We are in effect at a state of early war for our right to be recognised as a country.
I can understand those who love and admire Nicola. She is indeed a great politician. The question I have however is this.
Can she lead in what is essentially a war footing? Maybe she can, but thus far she seems too conciliatory for the serious situation in which Scotland finds itself. That is my issue.
I hope I’m wrong.
Vote SNP. Support your country. At this time it is the on!y ammunition we have against an ever more threatening enemy.
Selsdon man . His descendants are still mis- managing the economy and trying to kill off the state.
That has consequences.
link to thelancet.com
Strong,capable politicians can actually challenge the free market conditions and win.Selsdon man’s legacy is toxic and damaging- it is redundant and there is an alternative in Scotland .The entrepreneurial state is alive and well you just have to vote for it. The Tory corporate collectivism only serves the 0.1%
link to rawstory.com
‘The aim of the Selsdon Group is to secure that free market conditions prevail to the greatest
possible extent in the economy, providing the maximum choice of goods and services for all
citizens. .. Undoubtedly the temper of the people has been,whenever something appeared to be imperfect to say that “the Government should do something about it”. How often has one heard these words and read them in constituents’ letters whether they relate to an inadequate bus service, the shortage of housing’ or rising food prices, or whatever? It is never someone else who should “do something”,it is always the Government. ..Most State industries are not even meant to make a profit, and few of them do. …the electorate will only have a choice between two brands of collectivism at the next General Election: Socialism V. The Tory Corporate State’
link to selsdongroup.co.uk
For Scotland ,the country, there is a choice of two buses .The Indy mega bus will take you on a freedom ride the other choice is a clapped out Brexit bus crashing over cliff edge. The driver has an ejection button the passengers do not.
Choose your direction of travel wisely , vote with your head and your heart and vote for an independent Scotland.
@ Muscleguy
The thing with the SNP is this: they are the only party that can make a decent pitch at independence currently. The problem is that people who arent locked in an ideological bubble do not trust people who would burn the rights of 50% of the population on the progressive altar.
Further, the SNP are not going to bring anyone independence. They already had everything the SNP voters are hoping they will gain now – a near clean sweep. A solid mandate. What else is there?
Not only that their priorities in the election are explicitly not independence. So even if they win big Westminster will use that to deny any requests on independence. “You campaigned against Brexit, not independence, and that’s where the strength came from’.
Mr Campbell points that out and everyone has a hissy fit and shoots the messenger.
Fucking idiots.
Go on folks. Tacitly support action against the rights and safety of women and children so your fantasy party can bring about Scottish independence – its on their list after cancelling Brexit and stopping Boris obviously. I suppose Nicola will whisk in with a magic carpet and provide you all with a state funded Unicorn as some sort of emotional support animal too?
I mean if you believe hard enough its gonna happen right? Fuck facts, evidence and the Pegasus they rode in on.
No wonder I find so many yessers to be wired to the moon.
I’m in complete agreement with @Muscleguy
I’m voting for a fantastic candidate regardless of party. She just happens to be SNP.
@Joe,
No party can bring independence. The only offer it. The people have to choose it and take it.
@Republicofscotland,
`So now the Lib/Dem leader who’s in the pocket of the puberty blocker producers,`
i wonder who else (Stonewall,activists,astroturfing agencies? ) is being funded by big pharma to push the Transgender subject,
they have taken over the Scottish Greens they have funded Lib Dems and they are infiltrating SNP and many other agencies,
this amounts to an almost blitzkrieg type of attack,
which costs lots of money,
and Big Pharma has no sense of morality when trying to sell their product.
wull @ 08:44:
Got it in one there.
I just wish that everyone else was as clear-thinking. Rather a lot on here and elsewhere, as Shakespeare nicely put it, is much sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Peeps, just be sure to vote for your SNP candidate (official or otherwise) and chill. The rest will follow.
Tories promise the Tamil community in London Independence for their country if they vote Tory (the National)
They can’t deliver that, they wouldn’t deliver that, they have no intention of delivering that, all of it is impossible and they know it but that’s Tories for you, every word they utter is a lie and they couldn’t give a monkeys
Fill in your own adjectives here……….
Like someone said above: I’ll be voting for a cause, not for the SNP. But, helping to send a representative to Westminster who’ll be forced to sit powerlessly on their arse until the next political crises erupts doesn’t make me happy at all.
I’m not being snide or remotely disparaging about our elected reps sitting powerlessly on their arses – simple parliamentary arithmetic, as we ought to know, makes that scenario inevitable.
They should go to Westminster, take the oath, in a hollow manner, and return immediately to Scotland to campaign vigorously for Scottish independence. Hardly a physically impossible or unreasonable ask.
Well, because it would help if she did.
I don’t agree. Nicola Sturgeon is by far the most respected and competent politician in the UK. Getting rid of NS is the aim of the unionists. They are well aware of how good she is. They are salivating at the possibility of getting rid of her in the aftermath of the Alex Salmond trial. So I will not be adding fuel to that particular fire.
And yes – I am deeply opposed to her support for Self ID. And yes I very much appreciate your tireless efforts to expose the misogyny and hypocrisy embedded in the TRA project.
The full Fankie Boyle here.
Talking of Farage
I thought one of the advantages of the Brexit vote was that he might disappear; having him back in public life is a bit like watching a suicide bomber doing a comeback tour
link to archive.is
If you missed it
here’s the Courier’s mention of WOS.
Given Nicola Sturgeon’s role as number one bogeywoman to the Courier readership
It probably freaked them out that some independence seekers think she’s not that interested in Scottish independence.
link to archive.is
Socrates MacSporran 9.32am
Really good analogy thanks & some might find it much easier to understand in those terms. Have copied for future use
What Capella said @12.31pm
Same here
Meant to say yesterday what a pleasure it was to read Wings without all the trolls.
Independence as the aim is being said loud and clear by Ian Blackford the SNP candidate in Ross, Skye and Lochaber, ex-Leader of SNP in Westminster, on every occasion, in every forum – TV, radio, print, on-line. His words get a lot of attention because of his roles at Westminster and in the pro-democracy, pro-Remain fields.
I don’t believe that he is alone in the SNP in doing this.
So don’t accept the criticism that independence is not what the SNP campaign is about. Of course it is. As others here have said, the fact that over 62% of Scots want to Remain in EU is just a very very useful point to help get extra votes for SNP candidates.
Come on, Rev – cheer up! I take your point about the truth – I feel the same – and I have already and will continue to be active on GRA etc. Just wait until 13th December.
BBC *CLICK* programme has researched the online abuse problems and it appears that White male politicians (Ian Duncan Smith receiving the most) are the most abused followed by politicians of colour and women in third place, an interesting statistic did come up though that 70% of abusive comments originated in and from England, no mention was made of abuse from Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland as to whether they mean the remaining 30% originates from those countries
Sarah
We know that the SNP are about independence Sarah, my problem is what have they done to actively promote it apart from react to events. Their message is delivered in a monotone without passion or substance.
I ache to be free of this decayed union and will always vote SNP but they are not getting their message accross evectively.
A year is a long time in Scottish journalism when Stu was described as “controversial” and now he is “popular”.
The Press in Scotland is fair spinning with fear and terror.
Me? I’ll be voting SNP next Thursday.
@ mike cassidy – thx for the link I thought the Courier article was very balanced. What a surprise. And, as you point out, stating that NS isn’t interested in independence should boost her votes in the region. Win,win!
I belive the SNP have the strategy correct here for the election, Stop Brexit carries a stronger message than Independence vote. Putting Independence at top gives the opposition the ammunition to refuse another referendum if the SNP do not win convincingly (they would demand more than 50% of the vote in a multi-party election).
An Indyref is the natural progression from a high SNP vote to keep Scotland in the EU. What we need is a high turnout of SNP voters on Thursday to reinforce Scotland’s will, if the Scots can’t be bothered then they have to put up with the consequences.
Frankly I’m fed up with Holyrood being labelled Westminster mitigator of the worst policies, if the Scots want the full British then maybe they should get it.
@dakk,
What in the name of Thor`s Hammer is an `Anti woke fascist` ?
Maajid Nawaz on LBC about an hour ago. Ecstatic about a new poll which has opposition to independence among Scots at 56%.
I only caught the end of his little rant because I can’t stand the self righteous git. So I don’t have any details.
Juteman wrote on 7 December, 2019 at 8:43 am:
“According to the BBC Scotland website, a record number of people have registered to vote in Scotland, with 728,148 postal votes. I can’t help being slightly worried about these numbers.”
Thought we had a world record at the IndyRef with over 800K? I’ve read all the comments after you posted this news, after thinking oh here we go etc, and a few logical suggestions have been made but i’ll keep my feelings in check until after the GE results. Especially after ‘Terry callachan’ comment @ 9:06 am which sort of reinforces my already sceptical & suspicious natural mind-set.
If you value our Scottish NHS then a vote for anyone other than the SNP, and that includes The Greens, is being complicit in wilfully handing our Scottish NHS over to London control.
Pay attention or pay the price. Have a great weekend Troops.
@ John H – It’s a poll in the Times. Blow to Sturgeon type headline. The sort of thing we used to see every day in indyref1. Stu used to rip apart the stats. I suppose we should be doing that ourselves by now.
You’ve come up with the goods again CC, well done.
Looking for an answer to the conundrum of how we can, if we end up propping up JC, have indyref2 next year and fit in Brexit2?
How could you put it to the electorate, especially if B2 comes first, as it inevitably will do?
Is 2020 even possible in such a scenario?
Vote remain, but well it’s academic, because we’re looking to leave the UK anyway!
Confused? They will be.
The potential Yes vote might rightly question the democratic validity of voting on something that they want out of.
@John H. 7 December, 2019 at 1:51 pm
The “poll” you refer to is from a discredited & unreliable organisation named ‘Britain Elects’, blocked by many on twitter.
They’ve been promoting similar tripe for some time now even when other more credible sources have had pro-indy ahead.
Anyone promoting, retweeting their guff, for any reason, is aiding & abetting them to plant the negative seeds of doubt.
Don’t trust that organisation as far as you can throw it.
@Scott Finlayson
Not sure.
Thought it sounded good and in tune with the times and the cartoon.
Maybe It will be a thing if hermaphrodites are the norm at some time in the future.
Is that what’s called a ‘daisy chain’, Chris? Maybe not.
Your essential weekend reading
‘Ten of the Best’: link to wp.me
‘The Irishman – a review’: link to wp.me
Thanks Stoker and Capella. A while back some indy supporters had a go at Maajid for his anti independence stance. He seems to be still upset.
Today he was pushing the idea that if Scotland got it’s independence we would be struggling, so would be wide open to a Russian takeover. He’s only worth listening to for his comedy value. Even then, only in very small doses.
Vladimir Putin is the Baba Yega which was mistranslated in the John Wick movies as the Boogeyman but actually means Witch but correctly should be described as Babyaka (Boogeyman)
Vlad seems to get himself accused of all sorts of interventions in other people’s countries and always seems to be accused of desiring to invade countries that are smaller than his and when the question of Scotland’s Independence comes up it’s the perfect tool for the propaganda drivel that Unionists use that’s just as bad as the *you’ll get no pensions* crap
If Vladimir Putin ever had the slightest notion in his head of invading Scotland what would he do with it apart from the fact it’s on the other side of the world from him and not another country in the world would allow it
The arrogance of people who make comments like this hoping that the population of Scotland are just that stupid to believe such garbage is staggering, because it comes from the notion that if Vladimir Putin decided to invade England he couldn’t do that because they’re so much more powerful and Scotland is insignificant and it’s the use of Reductio ad Absurdum to the stupidest degree
There are hundreds of Independent countries throughout the world many many of them much smaller than Scotland, why hasn’t Vladimir Putin invaded all of those or indeed just some or even our next door neighbours Ireland, nope, no Russian invasion there, and that kinda disproves that stupid idea
Unionists really are a pathetic bunch of liars preying on folk they deliberately miseducate so they can feed them the most ridiculous verbal diarrhea then laugh at them if they’re stupid enough to swallow their shite
Vote for us, shite swallowers, it should be a slogan
Dr Jim.
Exactly. The insinuation is that we would be so poor, and are so stupid, that we would invite the Russians in. If the SNP do as well as most of us hope on the 12th December expect dark mutterings about Russian interference in our elections.
Meanwhile B.J. attends Russian oligarch’s wild parties, and gives his own security men the slip to secretly meet some Russians for who knows what reasons.
Dr Jim @ 2.58
Not to mention Norway…. A much closer,and a more wealthy prize.
This nonsense also reminded me…. Anybody know?
Do NAT0 and any other Military which use Scottish Waters and Air Space,as a training ground pay any kind of rent for doing so?
I’ll be voting SNP on Thursday , and would certainly not be voting for a Fib-Dem from Bath if he was on the ballot paper ! .
Frankie Boyle’s election countdown. Very sharply drawn sketches of the leaders of the Westminster parties, are as you would expect:
link to archive.md
Happy enough to troll his website though eh ‘John’
Aka pedo guy, friend of freaks.
Scot Goes Pop take on the Times poll maybe showing a drop in support for independence – or maybe not. He thinks there will be a flurry of polls over this weekend so more runes to decipher soon:
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com
Weirdly, this is true.
This is worth keeping an eye on.
Something going on here! £548M to be paid over by Glasgow Council
Settlements to women in a union have been charged a legal ‘fee’
🙁
———————————————————–
Glasgow council equal pay claim firm suspends all activities
link to archive.is
Now the revelation that the USA and Trump will ravage our NHS once a deal with the USA is carried out, is now being put across in a light touch fashion, by the media,that its not true and its a Russian disinformation attempt to blacken the Tories, and damage their chances of winning this GE.
I for one believe what Corbyn found out regarding leaked documents and the tearing up of our current NHS by big pharma in the USA. I don’t for one minute believe the “Russians did it” trope.
I posted on another forum how easy it is to fix the UK voting system.
Around 20% of folk never vote, and never will vote. It is easy to track this as every voting card has a number.
Modern IT systems can use these as free votes for the State.
Scotsrenewables…1035 am
I don’t think anyone will be able to tell you how saying NS must resign helps the Indy cause
Because saying that damages the Indy cause
As some one said earlier today without SNP there would be no Indy ref cause right now
During the recent stramash on here about NS must resign
I think many people would have moved to another blog but there simply isn’t another blog that carries the Indy campaign as fervently as Wings
Let’s face it many of us disagree on so many subjects , that is healthy , it is normal
I’m so glad that so many people on here who have been disagreeing about certain things recently
have come together today so show that we cannot be broken
We have a common goal
Scottish independence
It will take more than disagreements about NS or gender self ID to beat us
We will keep marching , campaigning , talking until we get Scottish independence
We can’t be defeated
The next generation are more PRO-SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE than us
@Liz
They call it *joint exercises* they even give them fierce sounding names like *Operation joint Warrier* because grass and sand and water and that have been known to fight back with splashes and dirt flying up into the air, and NO nobody pays Scotland a brass farthing for blowing the shit out of lumps of our country and killing anything animal vegetable or mineral that happens to be there or swim nearby
I really really have always hated them for using Scotland as a playground to do what the hell they want with
Is there not a coastline in England they can go and blow up
I bet you’d hear the Nimbys complain then, but Scotland? meh who cares, it’s only us
The Courier…..remember this newspaper issues differing editions in different places for example the Dundee edition reports different things to the Angus edition and Fife edition etc
And of course they use this to include or exclude items to support their UNIONIST propaganda
People in Dundee buy it for the tv channel menu and for local news there is no alternative for local news but Dundee folk are well aware of the unionist propaganda in the courier
Bob Mack. 1118hrs I agree
Dr Jim @ 4.44
Thanks Dr Jim….. I’d have thought that the UK treasury would have levied a charge …. Although,I never thought for a minute that Scotland would have seen a penny of it!!!
John H@1.51
I have stopped listening to Trajic Naebawz, he is simply a nobody who has been given a licence to incite hatred on LBC, to say he is embarrassing is an understatement.
I tried reporting him to Ofcom a while back for the blatant pro Zionist garbage on his show. It is now obvious his ignorance to anything outside of London,especially Scotland. Yet another clueless fuc*ing racist idiot on the wireless.
If it was anyone else talking about his beloved Israel the same way he does about the Scottish National Party, they would be off the air in no time.
Don’t waste oxygen on the arsehole, you will feel better for it.
LZC Leading Zionist Conversation
LRC Leading Racist Conversation.
Simples.
Rev. Stuart Campbell @ 12:08,
Nicola takes your advice, crashes out a few days before election day (and after quite a few folk have already posted their vote), there is turmoil in the SNP, and the electorate react accordingly by staying away in droves, making 2017 look like a high water mark. The Unionists crow triumphantly on the BBC and independence is set back by a decade or more.
All, one suspects, just so you can get a little personal satisfaction because not everyone was immediately keen on your cunning plan for 2021. (A strategy which can’t succeed anyway without the wholehearted support of a substantial swathe of regular SNP voters. And which now won’t be worth a damn anyway because of the terminal damage caused in the meantime.)
If this is clear thought and winning strategy, I’m a Martian. You’ve been down south and exposed to their toxic magical thinking for far too long, I fear.
Gary45% &John.
Maajid Nawaz is the founding Chairman of Quilliam, which receives/received funding from the British government. It receives funding fromn the US as well.
Nawaz is a state actor that’s why he constantly attacks the SNP and independence. He also attacks Corbyn.
link to quilliaminternational.com
link to opendemocracy.net
Terry Callahan @ 4.29
Of Course we would come together, no one should doubt that for a minute…
The common denominator is Scotland and her Governance.
This site is successful below the line simply because everyone can disagree.
And I suspect that even after Indy we’ll still disagree,but,like ye said…. Healthy….
I don’t buy this people are fed up with politics and just want to get back to normal guff the media are punting either!
What they mean is they want the public to get back to watching brain dead tv and not looking at the Government.
Yet its politics and all its twists and turns that’s much more interesting..
Hopefully the next Generations will realise that too..
Folk who are satisfied with something generally don’t make a big noise about it but folk who are unsatisfied generally shout it from the rooftops leading to folk thinking could the latter be correct
Many people live their life by the premise if it doesn’t happen to them or doesn’t happen in their street then who cares or it probably isn’t happening
They put blinkers on horses to stop them looking sideways at other horses diverting their attention to help them win races
The UK government’s been doing that to people for a long time
A message to English people
Come and live in Scotland and enjoy this beautiful country but to do so you must integrate
DO NOT COME to Scotland link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Are we likely to see how postal votes compared to vots on the day pan out so we can be sure they are not being manipulated
Are we likely to see how postal votes compared to votes on the day pan out so we can be sure they are not being manipulated
200.000 people can demonstrate for Independence for their country, the BBC STV SKY doesn’t show it so did it really happen (bear in the woods) which gives the opposition every opportunity to decry it very loudly
UK government blinkers
Defo@3.46
Grow up !
@shug 5:26pm
You can ask Dominic Raab, he says he’s seen the postal votes and it’s looking good for the Tories, he must be a pal of Ruth Davidson she got away with that crap too
O.K. Rev,
So you want N.Sturgeon to stand down, in that case you must have someone in mind to take her place, ——– WHO ?.
Eurosceptic and Brexit supporter Peter Lilley IDOX and postal votes. Should we be concerned?
link to wikispooks.com
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
Even with all the shenanigans this week, I have not found ONE SNP supporter who is put off.
SNP = Indy2
Simples.
Take a flying fuck to yourself ‘John ‘
Xxx
@Robert J Sutherland,
Fair enough, but what if the “rumour” shall we call it,is true that Nicola is leaving next year of her own volition ?
Albaman – Joanna Cherry. I think she would be ideal and may be able to curb the runaway self-id clique.
@mike cassidy at 12:42 pm
Yes, the devil is in the detail in that article, and perhaps in itself justifies the Rev’s actions.
The actual figure in the Yougov according the Herald is 48% against, with 10% don’t know / refused. What should be done is to compare that with older polls where the figure against with don’t knows INCLUDED in the result was 50% or more.
Personally I’ve followed that more than the result excluding don’t knows – it shows how many could be persuaded one way or another.
Frankly, with all the debates and who-ha over Brexit, I’m surprised the don’t knows are more like 20% – and perhaps they actually are with some just defaulting to “for”, or mostly “against” in my opinion. I’d say many persuadable voters are thinking “now is not the time”, leaving just us hardliners on both sides.
You probably won’t see Poultice making such an open assessment.
I hope I’m wrong but think for a minute:
Joanna Cherry may not retain her seat thanks to the Greens.
Ian Blackford may not retain his seat thanks to the ‘unofficial’ Unionist Pact.
I suspect if Alyn Smyth takes Stirling he will use his high profile from his time as an MEP to push for Westminster SNP leader!
Smyth is pro GRA and his partner ‘Woke Witchfinder General’, Jordon Henderson is one of the attack dogs targeting Joan McAlpine et al who signed the SNP Women’s Pledge.
SNP look like doing an SSP FFS
🙁
@Jockanese Wind Talker at 7.16pm
I’m surprised that regardless of the subject matter, there are still individuals holding official positions within the SNP after the horrendous stuff they have previously posted on social media, as seen recently on previous article.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
I recently rejoined to assist with the GE campaigning, and my local Branch has a FB page that you must agree to terms of behaviour before you can access it.
I only have a FB account to look at and responds to classified ads so when I was sent a link to the Branch’s page, I did not join as thought it was utter hypocrisy that I as a general member must adhere to strict rules and guidelines, yet folk in higher positions within the organisation can still hold positions of control and influence after the abhorrent stuff they have posted.
Something stinks big time.
I have to presume some sort of official complaint has already been raised internally regarding this matter.
Too many homosexuals in top echelons of SNP.
Not good.
Pete @ 7.32pm
Oh shut up, Pete
@RJS
Well it might all come out in the wash, we’ll see on Friday whether there’s a change of weather again.
Meanwhile it seems Sturgeon has actually replied to the Courier article saying she didn’t know but ““That’s news to me, but I think I’ll soldier on.” which if actually true would show how much she is in an ivory tower with no input from us unwashed dirty plebs – or empathy with us.
The alternative of course is that it’s a welcome break for the future, because it means the MSM can’t accuse WOS of being an SNP orifice, and right now, it’s given the Courier the opportunity to show that yes, Sturgeon wants Independence. While allowing Sturgeon again to emphasise other things, like Brexit and the waiting contemptuous disaster that is BoJo, rather than having to keep banging the drum for Indy and Indy Ref 2 in 2020.
There’s all sorts of levels to this, and I guess we all have to do what we do. I was first in on Sturgeon’s article in the National as I often am (I was working overnight) – whether she gets to read it or be told about it, who knows? I did mention GRA and #indyref2020 …
Wonder who will be gloating more if SNP dont do well on Thursday, Rev Stu or Brian Spanner?
The writing is on the wall, even at this stage, but it is in very fine print, almost like a watermark. Only when seen up very close is it legible.
And so the voter-packed buses & trains pass by with nothing to see in their casual hurried glance.
While the Government knows their ‘new’ strategy of lies and zero information is working, and the voter is confused and befuddled, not knowing what to think, and then, clutching at straws, decides to hang on to ‘getting Brexit done’.
Well, it’s better than nothing, isn’t it?
A real life example of why voters in Scotland are not engaged with politics from The New York Times,
Splintered Isle: A Journey Through Brexit Britain:
link to web.archive.org
A Forgotten Steelworks:
In a wasteland on the edge of the Scottish town of Motherwell, our final stop, Tommy Brennan pointed out things that were no longer there.
There had stood the factory gates, he said, there the cooling towers. This was once one of Europe’s biggest steelworks, where Mr. Brennan first worked in 1943.
But now there was nothing but yellowing grass. Once bigger than Central Park, the Ravenscraig steelworks was shut and dismantled in 1992, after being privatized by London’s Conservative government. That put an estimated 10,000 residents out of work, including Mr. Brennan.
In Shirebrook, I saw how deindustrialization eventually contributed to Brexit. But in Motherwell it helped heighten resentment of the British state rather than of Europe: In 2016, this area voted to stay in the European Union, but in a Scottish independence referendum in 2014 it favored leaving the United Kingdom.
Mr. Brennan was among those voters — he had concluded that London would never prioritize Scottish interests. “If we’d been an independent nation when Ravenscraig closed,” he said, “it would never have closed.”
Yet alienation takes many forms, even in the same town. After talking with Mr. Brennan, I crossed Motherwell to meet a woman born the year after the steelworks closed.
With little permanent work in a post-steel Motherwell, Ashleigh Melia had spent her adult life in temporary jobs on the minimum wage. Now, in her work as a cleaner, employers sometimes send her away as soon as she arrives — there’s no work that day, and therefore no pay.
The Conservatives’ decision to shrink the British state in recent years, cutting welfare payments by about $40 billion, has also squeezed her family. Her 4-year-old daughter, half-blind and half-deaf, has been denied disability allowances worth up to $460 a month.
Fired from her latest job in October, Ms. Melia now struggles to pay bills, her four children joining the 600,000 British minors who have fallen into poverty under the Conservatives.
To cut electricity costs, she encourages them to play in the dark.
But unlike with Mr. Brennan, all of this has not led to political engagement. Rushing from job interviews to hospital appointments, and with no internet at home, she had no time to think about politics.
She couldn’t name most political parties. She had no opinion on Scottish independence.
It was a reminder of another reality — one in which many find it hard enough to live, without worrying how to vote.
The steelworks?
Ms. Melia had never heard of it.
I received some election literature from the Labour Party today (remember them anyone?).
Their slogan states “When Labour Wins, Scotland Wins”…
Make of that what you will.
Also got some personally addressed firelighting material from The Brexit Party.
One of their “Contracts with The People” pledged to cut the cost of living by freeing ourselves from those pesky EU rules, making food and clothing cheaper.
So that’ll be you giving up high quality food safety and regulation so you can tuck in to shitey hormone and antibiotic treated cow meat.
Just be careful when you are cooking it that you don’t catch fire whilst wearing that cheap low quality non-fire retardant clothing…
On the upside I guess the Unexplained magazine will be able to come back with stories of bizarre medical defects and conditions, and the good old stories of spontaneous human combustion.
You ken, like the one of how granny could possibly have turned herself into a pile of ashes next to the still switched on two bar leccy fire whilst wearing just a nylon nighty and a pack on No6 smokes on the mantelpiece.
It’s a fuckin mystery, I tell thee!
Ach, moderation again, dammit.
On Thursday the Met. Office has the weather looking pretty nice. Cool (4deg.) But sunny and light winds. I suspect that might be good for SNP.
potter
After all the work that Stu has done for independence and the tremendous stress he has endured , you should be ashamed of yourself.
But hey i`m sure you are no hypocrite so we wont be seeing your posts on here again.
Nicola just on with Chief of Police in Scots Cop Squad with the other leaders. Quite good. Some of it was quite funny.
Bob Mack @ 18:05,
I’ve seen “hints and allegations” bruited elsewhere, but it’s never more than an insidious whisper from the odd person hiding behind a moniker who knows shit all and merely wants to damage her reputation by implying she’s just another careerist.
If it’s utterly despicable (as it truly is) to try to deselect a hard-working and effective fighter like JC because of her views on one particular narrow issue, its just as despicable to make anonymous imputations about the motivations of someone like NS who is as assiduous and decent an FM as you could ever wish for. (“Goose and gander principle”.)
It strikes me that these vile rumourmongers are peddling a line in the hope of convincing enough people of dubious motivation and thereby doing material damage to her position. (And maybe it’s actually because they are no friends of indy at all, and greatly fear her effectiveness, most especially among the convinceable former-no’s and the EU leadership. And nothing whatever to do with GRA or anything like.)
Well, if there’s any truth in this insidious backstabbing, let someone come straight out front and say it, prove it, and put their own name to it. I bet there’s no-one with the facts, nor the cojones.
Jockanese Wind Talker @ at 20:20,
Very instructive. If people don’t have the background and the facts (like someone in Motherwell who has never heard of Ravenscraig – jeez!), they are never going to be able to “join up the dots” as the other person mentioned could.
That’s the point of a full-on indy campaign. Until then the dots will remain unconnected for many. Given the prevalent media bias, it will never be perfect, but it does at least offer the opportunity to get information out to people who otherwise would remain (un)blissfully ignorant. That’s what happened back in 2014, and enough people shifted to scare the bejasus out of the BritNats, who had previously thought they had it “in the bag”. It was always going to be harder to reach and convert the next 10%, but Brexit has presented a unique opportunity, and it’s eminently possible.
So let’s get at it, and ASAP.
Re forgotten Ravenscraig.
I attended Wishaw General for arterial blood sampling. The nurse remarked that it was healthily red.
I replied that it could have been so with Carbon Monoxide poisoning but she wouldn’t see that now that the Coke Ovens are gone!
Blank looks!
@ Jockanese Wind Talker 8.20 pm – that’s an incredibly sad story. If those conditions don’t persuade people to get out of the union and take decision making into our own hands then nothing will.
Criminal neglect from Westminster as always.
Calm down
SNP have got the message out to people far and wide
Everyone in Scotland knows what is at stake
We will know on Friday where we stand
There are rich people in Scotland who will never ever vote for Scottish independence
They like England’s Tory Westminster because it lets them evade taxes
Having said that
Some rich Scottish people just won’t vote it eases the guilt in their mind and allows them to think to themselves that they didn’t betray their country…but they did..not voting allows England’s tories to continue ruling Scotland
There are Scottish socialists who will always vote labour even when they know that labour is a mirror image of the tories , they do so because they live in hope of a socialist government
They will never get one
I voted labour til I was fifty before I wised up
There are over half a million English people maybe as many as three quarters of a million they only do a survey of their numbers once every ten years to find out and its a british government survey anyway so would you believe it ?
Anyway nearly all of them vote against Scottish independence and vote tactically for Tory or labour or Lib Dem or anyone else that can keep SNP out
At any Scottish independence march you will of course see half a dozen English people with a banner saying English Scots for yes
There is no such thing as an English Scot
You are one or the other
You may be English and like Scotland
You may be Scottish and like england
But you cannot highjack a nationality
Is it time for a conservatives for independence group. There must be Scottish conservatives who see how appalling Boris is and how it is time to be true Scottish conservatives and stop being a branch office
@McDuff
Yer right, no more posts..or money. Sturgeon resign and vote for one of the leaders of Better Together. Not helping Indy, or maybe I missed something?
I didn’t campaign in the EU referendum at all. I was a lot less motivated to persuade people to back “Remain” than for Scotland to stay part of the UK. I wasn’t convinced by the arguments to “Leave” at that time, but I’m a democrat as well and I respect the view of the UK people. (not the people of Moray who voted to stay in the EU) While I think there will be challenges to leaving the EU, I also think there are opportunities”.
link to caltonjock.wordpress.com
I am shocked,as reported by the BBC,that it
cost £700k to keep the old Edinburgh Sick Kids Hospital open to allow the contractors to sort out their problems in the new hospital.
I thought it would be £10M!
Well done SNP Government for looking after our interests.
Hi shug at 11:39 pm.
You typed,
“Is it time for a conservatives for independence group. There must be Scottish conservatives who see how appalling Boris is and how it is time to be true Scottish conservatives and stop being a branch office”
Have you never found this twitter page?
link to twitter.com
Potter @ 11.39
Aye ye missed a shit load
We’re good at informing people but no that good.
Even we canny fix stupid.
Mibbi this isn’t the site for you…. Have ye thought about Bella Caledonia?
Got more SNP Election Lit through the door on Saturday morning and no mention of Indy on it. Mind you Douglas Red Card Ross is obsessed with it.
Oh and Conservatives for Scots Independence is an oxymoron. Don’t you get it yet? Brit Tories fuckin hate us. Oh and they will always be the on their knees branch office, performing oral sex for their London Masters. Well that or bent over performing another metaphorical sexual act for nothing in most bleating cases.
robert florence has a new comedy, the state of it
– tackling woke issues; well intentioned, but could be funnier
– watch it on iplayer in an incognito window, without paying for a TV license; fight the power
and one more, just for Christmas …
link to forward.com
How to make a good thing a bad thing, ask the British
At this time of year when we hope to all enjoy Christmas whether a believer or not isn’t it a strange thing that Christianity is a belief full of left wing values yet it’s most vehemently supported by Tories who have extreme right wing values
If Jesus were around today he’d be throwing over the tables of the Tories and they’d naturally deport him for not having British values which of course are decidedly Unchristian
Confused @ 1.46
A Christmas Carol Anti Semitic….. Oh my giddy aunt.
I’d always gotten the impression that Scrooge was a lapsed Christian of some description.
If they want to find hooked nosed sinister bankers they don’t need to look any farther back than Harry Potter, they can’t have it both ways.
As for Oliver Twist….. we can all play that game…..Fagen is no exactly a Jewish name,it’s more Celtic I’d have said, Fagen was,I think,ment to be an Irishman… The real offensive thing about Oliver is the way we are led to believe that the child of an upper class woman was more moral and more deserving of being taken out of poverty than the other children. A message of good breeding if ever I saw one!
King Kong was racism and misogyny on stilts…. How many Native women were sacrificed to Kong ?
But one white woman turns up and he looses his shit….. And being of its time won’t wash either they remade the bloody thing.
Gatsby was a stalker, and it’s disgusting that we never found out what happened to the wee dog,this encourages people to view animals as expendable objects.
As I said we can all do this!!!
Holden’s catcher, whither in out of the Rye,should be a fecken social worker….. His obsession with his kid sister should be called out for the early signs of paedophile tendencies that it is, not an unwillingness to grow up !
Don’t get me started on ET soft soaping kids for a good ole resurrection story….although the Easter reruns are slightly more welcome than Bridge on the River Kie…..
This finding Anti Semitism thing has lost the plot….And despite what I’ve just written,I’ve not 🙂 just procrastinating before decorating…. LOL
Maybe Ms Melia hadn’t lived in the area for very long. Or wasn’t Glaswegian/Scottish. This context isn’t elaborated on in the article. These fucking metropolitan 900 miles in 2 weeks so called journalists are incapable of understanding or even doing nuanced pieces.
That was my takeaway after reading it.
Potter
Read my post.
I will of course be voting SNP as I have done for forty years, that is not the point.
Just tell me exactly in detail what the SNP have being doing to make Indy more attractive to voters since ’14 apart from react to events.