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The new world champion of irony

Posted on May 14, 2018 by

Take a bow, Angela Haggerty of the Sunday Herald:

Yesterday, just eight months after those two tweets, Haggerty took to the social media platform to spitefully reveal the gay partner of SNP MP Mhairi Black.

She had no reason to do so – the comment was in response to a matter that had no specific relevance to either Black or her girlfriend, and it would have been easy to make the point without identifying anyone.

Aghast, many users pointed out that the relationship was not public knowledge and that the couple didn’t wish it to be so, and asked Haggerty to delete the tweet. She refused to do for around two hours, ensuring that the information was widely known before she eventually removed it alongside a breezy non-apology, which to many onlookers appeared insincere at best, and sarcastic and provocative at worst.

Even some other Scottish hacks – a breed who normally set aside any differences and circle the wagons whenever one of their peers is in trouble from the great unwashed hordes – were driven to condemnation of both the leak and the “apology”.

Yet any even remotely competent journalist working in Scottish politics would have already known the information wasn’t public knowledge. Mhairi Black had made a point of emphasising that it wasn’t in an interview with the Sunday Post last year:

And in any event Haggerty’s atom-thick facade of remorse didn’t last long. Within hours she was wailing on social media about being the victim of “harassers” and “bullies” and class discrimination because people had quite reasonably been angered at her outing a young gay woman against her will to attack the SNP.

(Exactly the thing, let’s remember, that Haggerty had herself previously described as “journalistically irresponsible” and which rendered the platform a “cesspit”).

And today, predictably, she went on the attack again.

That’s a cynically disguised reference to a media smear campaign from a few months ago in which political opponents of the SNP had attempted to whip up outrage by smearing Black as an anti-Catholic bigot after comments she made in an interview with Holyrood magazine:

The context of the attacks on Black and her partner was an extraordinary edition of the Sunday Herald at the weekend, which devoted three full pages to an article by editor Neil Mackay responding to criticism of the paper’s previous issue, in which it had made untrue allegations about that weekend’s pro-independence march in Glasgow.

The piece demanded that the SNP – who had no involvement in organising the march – take action to silence criticism by Yes supporters of the newspaper.

The use of “your cause” rather than “our cause” in the concluding paragraph was an interesting one. In a veiled attack on the previous editor, who’d committed the Sunday Herald to independence in the first place in 2014, Mackay had already noted that the paper was changing its direction in order to appeal more to Unionist voters:

And the paper’s Chief Reporter, David Leask, has for literally years been waging an increasingly deranged social media assault on what he calls “Trumpist” “cybernats”, particularly focused on this site but more broadly defined as “anyone who disagrees with, or even politely questions, David Leask on any subject”.

(Leask is particularly fond of mad conspiracy theories suggesting Wings might secretly be an organ of – variously – the Unionist establishment, the UK security services or Vladimir Putin, but if we start down THAT particular rabbit hole we’d be here all day.)

So let’s recap.

The only “pro-independence” Sunday paper in Scotland has a Chief Reporter who thinks Yes supporters are Trumpist loonies and the most popular pro-independence website on Earth is covertly sabotaging the movement for either MI5 or the KGB.

(And a sports reporter making barely-veiled physical threats against its editor.)

It has a News Editor groundlessly insinuating that one of the SNP’s most popular MPs is a bigot and revealing her private life against her will, outing a young gay woman in the process and driving her off Twitter.

Remarkably, less than 48 hours after having said this:

(And who in her previous job at a supposedly pro-independence news outlet ran two separate articles demanding that Yes supporters shun and boycott the website you’re reading now, and who urged in the pages of the Sunday Herald that people should heed the words of a “Better Together” activist who claimed the Yes movement was racist – a theme the weekday Herald has recently taken up with enthusiasm again.)

It has two political reporters, Paul Hutcheon and Tom Gordon, who can regularly be found snidely attacking independence supporters and politicians in print. Its former Political Editor now works for the UK government.

It has an Editor demanding that the SNP take action to silence people who are nothing to do with the SNP but have criticised his newspaper, and who admits that he wants to sell more copies to Labour and Tory voters, and who at the 2016 Holyrood election expressly told people not to vote for the SNP on the list based on a seriously distorted misrepresentation of the views of Sir John Curtice.

(Mackay admitted last year that he detests social media, and only uses it to sell product. We can see why, as it has a terribly annoying habit of answering back.)

This post merely presents the facts. Readers can draw whatever conclusions they wish from them about the Sunday Herald and what its true political agenda might be.

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    1. 14 05 18 12:56

      The new world champion of irony | speymouth

    171 to “The new world champion of irony”

    1. Cuilean says:

      My last SH was the one where their front page photo showed a dozen union flags in equal numbers to 80,000 odd Saltires!

      Their next front page was demanding Alex Salmond leave RT whilst they had no problem with that week’s BBC Question time line up of 4 right wingers to one progressive business man.

      Goodbye Sunday Herald.

      R.I.P.

    2. John Dickson says:

      5th columnists, and that is not the number of newspaper columns they write.

    3. paul gerard mccormack says:

      ..something to do with crows.
      …vipers also come to mind.

      thank you for the succinct precis WoS.

    4. Fred says:

      Not called “The Hagg!” for nuthin!

    5. Cath says:

      In terms of Twitter, my feed is perfectly lovely. It’s that because I balance politics with books, music and writing, but also because I block or mute anyone who’s abusive and don’t follow those who’s only goal is division or whipping up hatred.

      During the referendum campaign, I actively reported a few supposedly Yes accounts which were being idiotic and abusive, because it’s totally counter-productive and regardless of whether they’re really on your side, or out to cause trouble for it, they need nipped in the bud. I think yes campaigners generally did a pretty good job of nipping problematic “supporters” in the bud, partly because the media “cybernat” narrative – or demonising voters for their political views, as I prefer to think of it – demanded that.

      One thing I’ve never had to do though, is block any journalists to keep my timeline sane and pleasant. I had to block 2 yesterday. I’m quite proud I can say I blocked Leasky before he blocked me. He was being abusive yesterday, as was Haggerty. I don’t want that on my timeline. The fact those very people can whinge through their national media megaphone about others being the problem is beyond irony and into something far more sinister.

    6. Macart says:

      But people aren’t supposed to hate journalism…

      They’re not making it an easy decision.

    7. Bob Mack says:

      Everything that is wrong with the world is that these media non person as are dictated to by their owners and are thus left without integrity or the journalistic license to actually give an impartial view.
      That is what is wrong.

      I could forgive and understand a story which looked at both sides equally,but that never happens. According to the media it is all the fault of the NATS . Well no, actually it isn’t.

      The media is biased,prejudiced, and Unionist. They cannot nor ever will, try to understand our viewpoint.
      Become an editor and sell your soul to the devil. The Unionist devil will absorb you in no time at all, and before you know it you become one of them.

      We have seen it happen before our very eyes. Power corrupts right enough. The promise of fame and a better lifestyle helps feed that corruption.

      However Ms Haggerty principles are hers to sell. I hope it is worthwhile, because the personal cost is also high.

    8. Ken500 says:

      If they weren’t so insulting, stupid and pathetic. People would almost start feeling sorry for them. Lack of self awareness. Most of them are criminals. Tax evading non Dom right wing liars. More Murdoch revelations. Promoted beyond their capabilities. Get their roots done.

    9. Ian McCubbin says:

      And I thought she was a decent young woman albeit a bit brash.
      Well she gets the ultimate shunning from me (lol) unfollowed on twitter.
      What a selfish person she is with no human honour.

    10. Capella says:

      Spot on Stu – you deserve a walk in th Bath sunshine. I was at the march on Saturday 5th May and will remember it as a happy, inspiring occasion. The participants were good naturde and good fun. The speakers were inspiring. The Wings stall was super busy and an opportunty to meet ohter Wingers in a cheering atmosphere.

      Happily, this pathetic attempt by the SH to smear the event and, by extention, the entire YES movement, has failed.

      The worst trolls of all appear to be MSM journalists.

    11. HandandShrimp says:

      The “media” hates social media.

      Media was OK until the plebs got their filthy unwashed hands on it!

      🙂

    12. Clootie says:

      It is the RIGHT of the unionist media to TELL you what the TRUTH is.
      If you do not accept their version/interpretation of events then you are a cretin…makes you want to rush out and buy a newspaper!

      The media are biased and even worse they have chosen to run down their own nation.

      Do not buy their rags!

    13. Proud Cybernat says:

      I sussed Haggerty out a while back and Unfollowed and blocked her on my Twitter account. She is no friend of Scottish Independence and neither is the SH. They take money under false pretenses. Not any more.

      Curiously, a couple of weeks ago I was FOLLOWED on Twitter by The Herald’s Senior Reporter (Martin somebody-or-other). Generally MSM ‘journalists’ don’t follow accounts with the name ‘Cybernat’ in them. Don;t know what he thought he might find. Anyway – he got BLOCKED.

      They – and most other ‘newspapers’ in Scotland were (and still are) stupid to back either YES or NO. They should just present the TRUE, UNSPUN, UNTAINTED FACTS and let the readers form their own opinions about who to back. That way they would have stood a better chance of keeping both sides of the debate on-board buying their ‘product’. Now they have alienated BOTH sides of the debate. Hell slap it intae them. No business acumen whatsoever.

    14. Donald anderson says:

      I did not buy the SH this Sunday and doubt if I ever will again. I instinctively distrusted it from the very beginning.

      If he wants to read vile cybernats abuse try the Hootsmon online comments. Brian Wilson, Labourite and Celtic moneymaker’s Weakly SNP bad opinionated column. receives adoring posts from the far right Uni Loonies.

    15. Ottomanboi says:

      Social mediums ie tools of US cultural imperialism are detestable. If you have the FB, twitter etc habit surely time to break it. Reconnect with the real world of flesh and blood humanity and leave the social misfits, inadequates and exhibitionists to stew in their own poison of ‘non-truth’.
      Circumspection, discretion and knowing when to shut up and whom to trust, refined social skills we might revisit.
      Kafka got it perfectly. Nothing new.
      That sexual identity whinging, so tedious and so ‘special pleading’.

    16. hopper69 says:

      Proud Cybernat.That is the job description of a journalist.Most working for MSM are not.

    17. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      Slagging of your customers is never a good business model.

      I won’t be buying the Sunday Herald anymore and I haven’t bought the Herald in years.

      I can’t get over the arrogance of these guys – folk don’t have to buy their papers and their sales are going to collapse in the next few months.

    18. ScottieDog says:

      In my industry professionalism is not about never getting things wrong, it’s about putting your hand up and admitting it when you do and not about making silly excuses. What was it mr sillars said in 2014 – “if you fly wi the craws..”.

      I had very little time for Miss Haggerty before but that is the last straw. For me it wasn’t what she did, but how she handled herself in the aftermath. That is key.

      I would expect a “why I left the Indy movement” story in the pipeline as she moves back to labour.

    19. jfngw says:

      I stopped it a couple of months ago, before Haggerty joined, I could smell the direction of travel over the last few months. When there is more anti-SNP stories than pro-Scotland stories then the claim of independence supporting is vacuous.

      Some of it reporters may be independence supporters, but it’s conditional, only on their terms or else.

      It seems they now want to dictate to the SNP what is acceptable, I can only hope they are told to take a hike, in polite language obviously, we don’t want to damage those wafer thin egos do we.

    20. Davie says:

      Have to laugh at Neil Cameron acting the hardman.

      Neil, or Neily to his mates, was a friend of friends sometime back. I can’t claim to know him well but two things were quite apparent. He is a horrible footballer for somebody who makes a living writing about it and he would struggle to punch his way out of a wet paper bag.

      I think you’re quite safe:)

    21. Bob Mack says:

      @Ottomanboi,

      It gets more bizarre. Haggerty has just outed herself as a partial justification for her actions. Somehow she seems to think that makes things better, as she understands Mhairis world.
      God help us,it gets worse. Angela,shut up

    22. Proud Cybernat says:

      “I would expect a “why I left the Indy movement” story in the pipeline as she moves back to labour.”

      They’ll be saving that BIG REVEAL until IndyRef2 is underway.

      As for the plausible nyaff, Leask – the Leask said about him the better. Ah’ll get ma coat.

    23. SmartBadger says:

      Leask muted me for pointing out a logical error in his tweet – but not before accusing me of being a Wings supporter and repeating “false and vexatious assertions” made by you – which, interestingly, I didn’t actually do. (Screenshot)

      He seems more than a little unhinged, to be honest.

    24. Returnofthemac says:

      Gave up the SH about 3years ago in favour of 6 well fired rolls. We have a much better Sunday.
      Never had time for the “Hagg”….

    25. bobajock says:

      Odd Heggarty went from ‘I thought she was moderately pro-indy’ to ‘I work for a unionist, so I’m not utterly appalled at pro-indy’.

      She took the shilling – she shined it, and now she’s delivering for her masters @ Westminster.

      Admittedly I once took the shilling – I crapped it back out when I saw sense though.

    26. jfngw says:

      Just spotted online one area that the BBC government spending in Scotland is greater than other areas. That is in allocation of government funded journalists, almost 15% of UK total. I assume we can’t now complain that the BBC under-funds Scotland.

    27. Craig P says:

      Mhairi Black’s partner gets outed. I couldn’t care less about that, in the sense that their private life is none of my business.

      More interestingly, when will the real Angry Salmond come forward?

    28. Dek says:

      The SH editor calls his output ” intellectual product ” . These folks are in a world of their own , more to be pitied than despised. Wouldn’t it be great if before their fast approaching disappearance becomes reality, there was for a brief moment one paper out there where reporting the facts was paramount

    29. Big Jock says:

      I love her mock outrage at being called a Plastic Paddy! I am Catholic (Lapsed). My Ancestors on my dads side were all from the republic 3 generations ago. I have a sister in law who likes to think she is Irish . Born and bred in Scotland as were her parents. I have called her a plastic paddy on several occasions….because it’s true.

      We joke about it as I tell her she has never been near Eire in her puff. I remember arguing with my Grandparents when they kept saying I was Irish even they were Scots, I never felt anything but Scottish.

    30. Artyhetty says:

      A Leopard never changes it’s spots as they say.

      An ex staunch ( shouting,’you can’t be a socialist if you are SNP!!’) Labour pal used to avidly, religiously buy and read the Herald, so that is what the rag relied on, imo, faux socialists, or maybe even champagne socialists.

      Social media and the internet has and is transforming how people get their information about what’s going on in the world, truths and untruths. It’s changed peoples’ perceptions of governments and power. The rags like the Herald absolutely hate that. Tough.

      O/T
      Oh and btw, the latest Alex Salmond on rt is really worth a watch, where he is in the US and interviews some amazing young people on gun control and racism, 🙁 and also the excellent Medea Benjamim. Episode 26.

    31. bookie from hell says:

      sunday herald has turned into the express

      induendo,with a agenda

      an it ain’t independence

    32. Calum McKay says:

      Angela Haggerty should have come clean and appoligised quickly to Mhari Black’s partner and Mhari Black. Even if the appology was not accepted, it would have been the right thing to do.

      Might be useful to see when the orignal tweet went out, was it late in the evening when one should not be near a computer due to being tired and emotional? That said the objective of the tweet is obvious, its meant to hurt!

      As for the Herald, the editorial team are of the opinion that they can say anything about The Scottish Government, SNP or broader independence movement and not be challenged.

      Any paper that is not prepared to be challenged and resorts to misinformation and misrepresentation to fend off criticism, is not worth the paper it is printed on.

      Angela Haggerty and the Herald are a good match, throw dirt, hide and then get your retaliation in first!

    33. Vestas says:

      Said it yesterday..

      Haggerty is a malicious sectarian trolling bastard.

      Whatever her politics are….

      I called it years back on her – she’s “indy-but”, much like some others (Boyd et al). ie they’re for indy BUT they know nobody is going to be listening to them (or paying them) post-indy.

    34. Malcolm says:

      Saw Angela Heggarty on Sky News papers this morning and first time I’ve seen her. She was at her best running down Scotland and SNP baad. Sky and their ilk trot out these people on a regular basis. Time to get rid of them. Can’t wait to see if the Conference is going to let us know when the Referendum date is.

    35. Helpmaboab says:

      Haggerty seems to making a journey. A familiar journey.

      Starting with a pretence of supporting independence, she established a toehold on social media.

      Then she secured a post with the emergent New Media. (In her case, the tragically-misfired Common Weal.)

      With her profile raised, she moved on to the Scottish media and, finally, using it as a step up, she’s now strutting the London media scene as a “Scottish expert” in the ill-informed, misleading, anti-SNP tradition of Torrance and Daisley.

      Vocal support for the British state’s interests in Scotland has often been a lucrative career choice…

    36. Tinto Chiel says:

      An excellent montage of MSM hypocrisy and hyper-sensitivity but it’s also enraging.

      “I would expect a “why I left the Indy movement” story in the pipeline as she moves back to labour.”

      Agreed, ScottyDog. And it will be those nasty Nats wot done it. Cue lots of cuddles/sympathy from the faux lefties who have piggy-backed on the Yes movement and done very nicely, thank you.

      I am sure there will be more attempts at provocation in Dumfries in the hope of a reaction to justify the “nasty cybernat” smears. The MSM are desperate to run with this narrative and they’re nothing if not predictable.

      Those wee kids, grannies and folk in wheel-chairs are simply terrifying to all right-minded people.

      And those balloons, those balloons……

    37. jfngw says:

      Just to remind everyone, it is cheaper to take out a iScot printed subscription that pay for the Sunday Herald weekly. Plus you can guarantee it is a Scottish produced publication with no BBC allocated journalists (I hope).

      I only changed to the Sunday Herald when it became pro-indy, to be honest the content didn’t ever justify the price but i thought I was supporting something, obviously I was scammed.

    38. AndyMcAngry says:

      Haggerty, Leask,Torrance and many more are a bunch of self promoting toadies.
      They exist in a jobs for the boys merry-go-round world like the same bunch of actors that do the rounds of all the different soaps or the same group of celebs that do all the game shows or the same group of presenters that front talk shows or reality telly.
      They are uninteresting and generally uninsightful, peddling an agenda that will keep them on the merry-go-round for as long as possible. They have an over inflated opinion of themselves and their work and feel unashamedly insulted when a mere pleb criticises them or says or writes something far more interesting.
      There other speciality is to play the horrible cybernat card, to deflect from there own abusive comments in the full knowledge that there pals in the yoon media will flog it like a dead horse!
      As I said many times in response to Torrance’s bleating, if the papers want to pay me for my services, I’ll do much better work for half the money!!!
      Best way to really get to them is to do what more and more of us are doing and not buy there rags!!!!!

    39. Street Andrew says:

      I’ve seen enough of the Sunday Herald online to know I don’t want to read much more of it. Let alone pay for the privilege.

      You’ve got to just love the attitude of so-called professional journalists to the internet and the democratising of opinion sharing.

      The print media ‘closed shop’ is well and truly dead.

    40. CmonIndy says:

      It’s quite simple. If a product that you purchase is not fit for purpose, or has a false product description, or is offensive then you dont purchase again. Take it down.

    41. Ken MaCol says:

      My growing discontent with the Sunday Herald was reinforced by their dismal reportage on the Glasgow march and when I saw their front page at the weekend on Salmond’s excellent show on RT -streets ahead of any current “Scottish ” media examination of current and historical issues, for the first time since its launch, I left it on the shelf and will not support it again.
      If it goes down with The Herald it will be no great loss.
      OT Impressed to note that Chloe Westley of the Taxpayers’ Alliance was able to appear on 4 different political comment shows over the weekend.

    42. katherine hamilton says:

      Ach, Ms Haggerty is a shyster. Shame on her.

      As they say in the movie “I am Spartacus!”

      Well, I’m a cybernat!

      We’re winning and they know it.

      Hell will freeze over before I buy the SH again. Just ignore them. They hate it.

    43. robert alexander harrison says:

      Just like with the bbc license fee just dont pay it if its not fit for purpose it will end up like the express dropping its price just to get sold as thats down to 10p a rag now.

    44. Dan Huil says:

      Great stuff again from the Rev. More and more people support pro-indy sites like WOS because they know they can trust them.

    45. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Ms. Haggerty tweets to say she really enjoyed “my first” Sky News papers review. My first? So she’s assuming she’ll be asked to do more. Metro stardom awaits. London’s welcome to her.

      In Scotland we don’t like people who bully others and then bleat about being the victim.

    46. Andrew Coulson says:

      You’re a hero worthy of Raymond Chandler!

    47. Ken500 says:

      Stephen Kerr lying in Westminster. Tory high taxes have ruined the Oil sector. 40% tax since Jan 2016. Taxed at 62% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing Scotland £Billions and thousands of jobs.

    48. Cathrin Semple says:

      David Leask is not the Chief Reporter of the Sunday Herald – he is Chief Reporter of the Herald.

      Tom Gordon is Political Editor of The Herald, he hasn’t worked for the Sunday Herald for well more than a year.

      Magnus Gardham never worked for the Sunday Herald, he was Political Reporter of The Herald.

      The Herald and the Sunday Herald are completely distinct entities with different staff, different editors and different editorial lines.

      Will you post this comment on your blog? Will you my sweet behind.

    49. galamcennalath says:

      Clearly Haggerty has now risen far enough up the ‘journalism’ ladder that she believes she need take no responsibility for what she says or writes.

      That is the mark of a ‘journalist’ who has made it, in their own eyes and those of their ‘journalistic’ peers.

      Well … in 21stC Scotland that is how many/most ‘journalists’ think and behave.

    50. Proud Cybernat says:

      The SH’s volte-face was always on the cards and many of us here on WoS called it out years ago. We knew back then that as soon as IndyRef2 was clearly on the horizon it would revert to type. And it now has.

      Something must be afoot…..

    51. Karmanaut says:

      I suppose this is the point in the circle where the media respond by saying that drawing attention to comments made by a journalist constitutes “Trumpist” abuse.

      And then maybe one of the journalists involved voluntarily leaves twitter for a few days, shrieking that they’ve been “hounded off” by vile cybernats (without actually showing any evidence of this).

      And then Severin writes a story about it in the Guardian and Leasky demands that Nicola Sturgeon own the ‘scandal’ and disband the SNP at once and Daisley writes his “sinister nats try to shut down free speech and turn Scotland into an authoritarian dystopia” article in the Mail.

      I dunno. That’s what usually happens.

    52. mogabee says:

      I do believe I saw the light a few months back about the time I stopped following Mr Mackay.

      As soon as I got that ‘spidey’ sense that a few folk were full of bullshit and I realised that I didn’t need to be talked down to like a child a good few others were also unfollowed.

      Liberating to say the least.

    53. Peter says:

      Considering the person ‘outed’ by Haggerty is a family member of ‘Loki’ , I was awaiting his outrage at Haggertys actions , however it appears not eh? I guess now he is a media luvvie he doesn’t want to bite the hand that feeds.

    54. orri says:

      If you’re paranoid then you might think 90,000 was a deliberately inflated estimate designed to take the shine of the revised one of 60,000 . Regardless of which you’re talking about tens of thousands of witnesses there on the day all of whom would know the SH was bullshitting with it’s photo of a comparable counter demonstration. Also making it unlikely the no surrender merchants would make a move so the clashes would be more verbal abuse from them rather than physical.

      In that context it’s very likely there’d be a large proportion of the SH’s regular readership in that march or friends of theirs. And with social media plenty of photos doing the rounds. A front page of that monumental falseness wouldn’t last a minute before being exposed. Some of those would be disappointed and angry at the SH’s taking them for fools.

    55. schrodingers cat says:

      i blocked haggerty, boyde and schafi weeks ago. the rose to prominence because of our support in indyref1, then in a pretence of fairness, started to diss the yes movement, that ensured that the msm would use them as “the voice of the indys” on bbc, stv and in the msm in general.

      they have carved out very lucrative careers for themselves at the expense of those who do speak for us, eg wos, wgd etc.

      hell mend them

    56. schrodingers cat says:

      i have often said we dont need a yesscotland2 or a leader, i dont see what they can help us with at street level that we dont already do,

      but an official group (dont ask me how we chose this group) would be able to put forward spokesmen for us. otherwise the bbc and sky will chose them for us

    57. Scottish Steve says:

      Among all this nonsense, journalists have the audacity to bemoan the fall from grace the mainstream media have suffered in recent times and whine about how journos aren’t trusted or liked. I wonder why!

      I really must give up reading the MSM altogether, especially the Herald. It’s become a unionist cumrag these days.

    58. desimond says:

      I mind when she announced she was leaving Common Weal and noticed there wasn’t even a hint of how she could then go on and champion the independence cause from the bigger stage of Sunday Herald.

      As was posted on Twitter, life comes at you fast and seems Angela crashed right into the wall of her own making.

      Somewhere I sadly suspect she is sitting thinking this could all work out well for Brand Haggerty..I bet a Question Time panel invite will be heading Angela’s way soon enough.

    59. Archbishop of Dork says:

      O/T

      So one of the new Royal Navy hunter killer submarines is to be called HMS Agincourt.

      It’s official now. England is Britain! Cry God, for Harry, England and St. George!

      But we do love you Scotland. Just not enough to leave you with democracy. Or enough to let you have Saltires on your produce.

    60. Highland Wifie says:

      When I started reading Wings last year I had never heard of many of the journalists or political commentators being discussed, and I kept an open mind about any derogatory comments made about these people. In the time since I have become much more able to form my own opinions as I’ve seen for myself, through links to social media and articles written by these journalists and commentators, the ways in which they reveal their true selves.
      I have to say that, so far, Stu and Wings btl comments have been spot on in identifying faux independence supporters in the public eye of which Angela Haggerty is one. I think the chip she carries on her shoulder regarding her background has allowed her to be seduced by the ‘success’ perceived in being a mainstream journalist. I used to have one of those chips myself. Thankfully I got over it.

    61. Kevin says:

      Along the lines; “Anyone who gloats over job-losses at (such-and-such rank Unionist rag) can unfollow me now!”

      Back in the day, c. 2014, I was new to Twitter and following Neil MacKay, and he tweeted the above re a faltering rag. I felt a little guilty that that was *exactly* my reaction to the rag’s problems. Not being familiar with the lie of the land, I shut my trap and continued to follow him.
      I’ve never been comfortable with behaving so meekly at that time. It appeared to me that the rag was hell-bent on slaughtering us yet MacKay was clearly giving priority to precious bloody journalists in a shitty, anti-Scot rag over an independent Scotland.

      I’d never let him away with that now, not him, not any journalist. At least we now know what side of the fence he urinates.

    62. Luigi says:

      Archbishop of Dork says:
      14 May, 2018 at 2:37 pm
      O/T
      So one of the new Royal Navy hunter killer submarines is to be called HMS Agincourt.
      It’s official now. England is Britain! Cry God, for Harry, England and St. George!

      It’s amazing, is it not?

      How, just beneath that British Nationalist veneer, there lurks an English nationalism just waiting to burst out!

      They just can’t help themselves, can they?

      The English yoons struggle to keep as lid on it, and the Scottish yoons struggle trying not to notice. No wonder they both go around like sour grapes with constipated expressions.

      Poor souls – reminds me of an excited Dr Strangelove trying to control his saluting arm. 🙂

    63. Thepnr says:

      If you haven’t yet been blocked by Leask then try sending him an non abusive single tweet that disagrees with his opinion.

      Guarantee you will be blocked cos you’re a nasty cybernat LOL

    64. Big Jock says:

      There is a difference between most of us and Haggerty and Boyd et.al.

      We believe in independence come what may. Whatever country we end up with after independence is neither here nor there. It’s just the right thing for a country to be independent. We feel it in our soul. It’s not a question of why we believe in it. It just is.

      Don’t get me wrong I do understand all the arguments for creating a more just country etc. However I would vote for independence even if Ruth Davidson was leading the drive for it. Your country is bigger than politics. Your country is your heart and soul. It starts with deciding what country you belong to and then shaping it accordingly.

      Haggerty is a newbie independence supporter. She jumped on the trendy bandwagon of the new left. Independence was a way to get socialism for her. If she thought she could get socialism in the UK she would be voting for Corbyn. like Cat Boyd. Maybe she still will.

      What I am trying to say is that she is not a natural independence supporter. She is too narrow in opinion for that. It just so happens she has carved a wee niche spouting her platitudes, while slagging the SNP.

      If you believe in independence then you have to accept that to get there you have to bring everyone to the party. You can’t just invite those who agree with you.

    65. Thepnr says:

      @Highland Wifie

      I doubt your experience is unusual in any way. When I started reading Wings I hadn’t a clue who anyone was, such was my ignorance. I wasn’t even sure that I’d vote for Independence.

      Changed days and a quick learner. Yes, I did vote for Independence though 🙂

      It’s envy from the MSM that is the price the Rev has to pay for writing this blog. That and hatred also, if anybody writing takes more abuse and is hated more than the Rev is then I’ll eat Leasky’s hat.

    66. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      The bitter irony of all this is that the SH will likely go down without much tears being shed, and all we will be left with to represent the pro-indy movement will be The National, which alas seems to be rather disproportionately stocked with fellow-travellers of Captain Haggerty, who herself will move on to become the favoured “representative” of indy in the BritNat media.

      On what hopefully will be the eve of another indyref, this is not a good place to be in. Around half the population of Scotland have no media representation worth a toss.

      Hardly a victory for fair dealing and sound underpinning of democracy, proud journos!

    67. Ronnie says:

      I really, really wish Twitter could be uninvented. It’s such a powerful vehicle to spread hate and evil in the world.

    68. David says:

      Oh of course Neil Mackay detests social media.
      If it didn’t exist people would be more likely to be influenced by the bullshit his paper produces.

    69. Andrew Davidson says:

      David @3:09pm

      In. A. Nutshell.

    70. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Archbishop of Dork @ 2.37pm

      With respect, you’re a wee bit late in getting wound-up about HMS Agincourt. The new Astute class submarine will be the fifth Royal Navy ship to bear that name.

      Sure, the English will name it thus, but, considering Scottish naval power had a lot to do with starving “Proud Edward’s Army” of resources in the lead-up to Bannockburn, I think we can safely bet, we will never see an HMS Bannockburn.

      The English will recall their victories, as we do, but, calling a new boat HMS Agnicourt is a minor irritant on the road to Independence, and I will not be losing sleep over it.

    71. schrodingers cat says:

      Thepnr

      i never get abuse on twitter mainly because i block on sight any yoons i see, even those who are not speaking to me directly. but to others who i follow
      the upshot is, i blocked leask, haggerty, boyd, shafi the herald, sh before they blocked me,

      the only person i know who has blocked my account is a particularly odious concern troll, whom i have never met or communicated with, called politicalicious, but i know caused paula rose no end of grief, but was heartened to see the rev telling her to f off this morning too 🙂

    72. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Socrates McSporran@3:12

      I wasn’t annoyed Socrates. If anything amused.

    73. Dr Jim says:

      Whit are ye shouting at me fur;

      I’m stupid but I’ve worked hard says a stupid bitter woman who works for a newspaper who pays her to be just that, and by doing so insults what intelligence she does have, but does she care? Not a Jot!

      Who knew claiming to be uneducated is an excuse for making people dislike you

      Angela Haggerty managed umpteen thousands in five minutes

    74. Highland Wifie says:

      @Thepnr
      It’s the righteous indignation that people increasingly turn to Wings for balanced news analysis I find difficult to take. The smearing of Wings as some kind of ‘beyond the pale’ site has been relatively successful in the past in keeping people away. It kept me away for a while. Now I am totally upfront about reading Wings and why. The more ordinary folks, i.e. not that politically engaged, who find this site and others like WGD, the more the MSM lose their grip.
      They really don’t like it.

    75. Thepnr says:

      @Big Jock

      Very good post, Independence has absolutely nothing to do with your preferred flavour of politician.

      Simply put it’s all about empowering the Scottish people to choose their preferred flavour rather than having spinach that you hate for tea every night because someone else likes spinach and you’ll just have to swallow it or starve.

      The people of Scotland must decide who runs our country, not anyone else and that’s what we’re missing. The democratic deficit can only be solved by being Independent.

    76. Nation Libre says:

      We have to stop calling these people journalists, they’re lackeys, pure and simple. And for God sake, stop clicking on Herald websites

    77. mike cassidy says:

      I had never heard of this site until someone mentioned it after the referendum.

      And I realised instantly why the MSM hated it – and continue to do so.

      The technical ability to say

      ‘you’re talking bullshit and here’s the proof’

      makes newspapers even less important than the old-school dismissal of ‘your only tomorrow’s fish-and-chip’ wrappers’

      especially when many more are reading the exposure than the original.

      The next stage in their decline is the circulation point at which it is no longer commercially viable to keep publishing.

      I suspect Leask’s reaction is a direct result of realising they have just brought that ‘subsidise or die’ number much closer for their paper.

      And nobody in-house is betting on subsidy.

    78. yesindyref2 says:

      Well, re Leask, he replied below the line on a comment of mine in the Herald, the thread by Macaskill about race hatred, where I pointed out the headline stats of race hate crime in Scotland compared to England and Wales and made a case that you actually couldn’t compare them just based on that or the relative ethnicity – actually contrary to the Wings article and the wide held views of “cybernats”, and his short reply included this unjustified, unprovoked and incorrect attack on me:

      Please stop putting misleading information gleaned from blogs on to our website

      clearly referring to Wings which he is obsessed with, as are others in the media. So having replied to it, after thought, I hit the “Report” button and this was the text of my report to the moderators of the Herald:

      ———–
      Please pass this on to David Leask.

      I research my own postings, have done since 2012 on the Herald, and if I don’t, put in my posting that it is unverified. If your comment “Please stop putting misleading information gleaned from blogs on to our website” was in reply to this from my opening post which has as the opening parargraph of my comment: “Any comparison has to start with the reported statistics which are 62,685 race hate crimes in England and Wales compared to 3,349 in Scotland.” then these figures can be seen on the BBC website in these article which I’m not allowed to include the URLs for:

      “Rise in hate crime in England and Wales” 17 October 2017

      “In 2016-17: 62,685 (78%) were race hate crimes”

      and

      “Call for ‘public health approach’ to tackle hate crime” 28 September 2017

      “These included 3,349 racial … hate crimes.”

      The figures are also on the official gov websites.

      If your problem is with my opinion in that posting, then what part exactly is it, and/or subsequent ones in that thread, rather than insult me by falsely accusing me of posting “misleading information”?

      David, you owe me an apology, under my reply to your reply to my comment.
      ————

      Leask’s comment (breaking their own community guidelines) was deleted, either by Leask or the moderators, but I have received no apology, either by email or on the thread itself. I don’d do twitter, or facebook, at all.

    79. yesindyref2 says:

      As for the Haggerty part of this article, I really don’t know if it’s appropriate. But then that is the question, considering Haggerty’s tweet, deletion and apology – what is acceptable? Clearly not giving out private information publicly. And the contents of this article are at least available publicly.

      But considering also Leask’s action in attacking me on the Herald website, with the implication that since in his words it’s “our website“, that he could delete any reply I made, stop me from posting in reply, and leave a disgraceful allegation unanswered by removing my traditional internet “right to reply”.

      In other words, the potential for bullying is self-evident, as old media struggles pitifully to adapt to the days of new media, which it hates and doesn’t understand the well-established principles of.

    80. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      mike cassidy @ 16:05,

      Me too, only discovered WoS in the aftermath. (A lesson to be learnt there, perhaps?)

      Part of the media problem though lies with advertisers. They seem only willing to stump up cash for ads in papers which take a BritNat line. “He who pays the piper”, and all that.

      That, I suspect, is what lies behind the apparent SH attempt to shift to a more “middle course” over indy. And why their editor has been so touchy about the self-evident mishandling of their Glasgow march coverage.

    81. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Craig P at 1.15

      “Angry Salmond” has been away for some time.

    82. wull says:

      Now that everyone knows the SH isn’t worth buying, that leaves a space on Sunday mornings that someone else could fill. Or should I say a vacuum?

      The National has no Sunday edition … So there is no pro-Indy Sunday newspaper at all. In fact, there isn’t even one that attempts to give a balanced view of what is going on.

      It would obviously be too expensive and too risky to launch a new print medium Sunday paper.

      But could a few pro-Indy web-sites and journalists get together, and put out something special every Sunday on social media? With a web-site of its own.

      I would call it ‘Scotland the Week’.

      It could include a round-up of what’s been happening in Scotland over the previous week. Not just on the political front, but on all fronts. It would have its political part(s), but it wouldn’t be all politics. There could be plenty of other sections too: culture, books, lifestyle, sport etc.

      Some of the comments on this web-site and others demonstrate that there are plenty of people with the skills required to write good journalistic pieces, even if they are not professional journalists. And who not only would like to be published, but deserve to be published.

      If you love reading, you don’t need to be a journalist to write a good book review.

      If you’re a music lover, of whatever kind of music, and you can write, don’t tell me you need to be a professional journalist to make a decent article out of your experience.

      There are surely plenty of people with a real knowledge and understanding of football who can also write, and could write a decent account of a match they went to. They could probably do so in a less predictable, more interesting and frankly less moronic way than some of the professional scribblers who make their living that way.

      And if you want objectivity, you could even run two articles on the same match. One who went supporting the home team (but tries to be objective) and one who supports the away time (but likewise tries to be objective).

      Why couldn’t some of the opinion pieces, which don’t all have to be about indy or even political subjects, be like that as well? That is, publish two different but equally well-informed pieces which give divergent, and even opposing views of the same subject.

      It’s not about brainwashing people (leave that to the MSM). Just keeping them well informed, and helping them to arrive at their own sound judgement of all kinds of matters, for themselves.

      There are still newspapers in the world which do that. They run two opinion pieces side by side, on a given subject, from two equally well informed people who nevertheless oppose each other. When they come to different interpretations / conclusions about the chosen topic, it lets the reader see the issue from both sides of the argument.

      You might call this a bi-angular view – from two different angles – and the reader is left free to make up his own mind about the topic in question. Which won’t necessarily be to side with one or the other, but could be to take some points from one of the writers and other points from the other one. Get people thinking – don’t close them down.

      Of course, since this publication is filling a vacuum, it would definitely be pro-indy in its editorial policies. But not in a crass way that would prevent waverers and soft No’s from consulting it. Publish nothing that would make them allergic to it, or that would automatically put them off it, but just give them plain facts.

      That also means it could include a weekly review of the week’s press, which would quite politely but firmly point out whatever misinformation it might have carried. ‘Scotland the Week’ reviews the week that just finished, for instance. It doesn’t all have to be negative – wherever there is a good article in MSM, that could be mentioned too, and praised. And this ‘review of the press’ doesn’t have to be all about politics – there are plenty of other subjects where there might be noteworthy articles. Even on travel, or theatre or cinema or food and drink, restaurant reviews or whatever – especially, now that we are talking restaurants, if there is a Scottish flavour to it.

      Of course, it would need to have a good editor, who would have to do a pile of work, and get properly paid for it. The salary could either be crowd-funded or there could be a subscription fee, or a mixture of both. There could also be payments, even smallish token ones, for anyone whose input is published. And sometimes an article could be solicited from a professional free-lance who would need to be paid the normal fee.

      I think there would also need to be something like an editorial board to whom the editor is accountable. I think it would be great if a team could be assembled for this comprising the kind of pro-Indy people who can be absolutely trusted. Likes of James Kelly of Scot Goes Pope, G. A. Ponsonby (I know he’s having a well-earned rest, but this shouldn’t involve too much work – just reading the publication and keeping an eye on it, from behind the scenes), Prof Robertson, someone or other from iScot and of course Rev. Stu.

      And if these admittedly busy people decline because they haven’t the time, perhaps each of them could nominate someone whom they trust who could do the job. They would do so as their nominees. And could be replaced by them if they end up not hacking it, or not being useful, or sufficiently engaged.

      Another name for it could be ‘The Week on Sunday’ or ‘The Week in Scotland’, or just ‘Scotland’s Week’. Or maybe ‘The Sunday Week’.

      But, personally, I like ‘Scotland the Week’. We have the whole mighty over-funded strength of the MSM ranged against us, including our Wicked Auntie (should that not be spelled ‘Anti’?). And we remain a David to their Goliath. But, as an old saying goes from just about the same source, ‘when we are week, then we are strong’!

      Sorry, I meant ‘weak’, of course …

      ‘Scotland the Weak’ … Why not? I for one want an independent Scotland that will be on the side of the weak. And, therefore, good for everybody. Don’t you?

      There must be lots of people out there looking for some decent reading on a Sunday … And there is a vacuum to be filled …

      Or is it just a daft idea?

      Over to you, everybody. I’m afraid my circumstances mean I can’t do much about it, except launch the idea. If it doesn’t simply sink, others will have to sail the ship … Though I suppose I could contribute the odd article (which the editor would be free to accept or reject of course) … I do read the odd book, and go to the occasional football match.

      Even the names of Scottish football clubs could be very worthy of a wonderful article. What other country in the world can boast of football clubs with such romantic names as Bonnyrigg Rose, or Gala Fairydean or the wonderful if long lamented Glenbuck Cherrypickers? Not to mention the erstwhile Rob Roy, or Irvine Meadow or, besides the aforementioned Rose all these Thistles …

      And as for ‘Cities’, what’s a ‘city’ anyway? Please, Wingers, never ever forget that Brechin has far more right to be called a ‘City’ than Manchester ever did … It has had a far longer history of being one!

    83. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Craig P at 2.16

      “Something must be afoot…..”

      Indeed it is. The establishment which owns the UK and its press understands that their relentless promotion of Ruthie and her guys has gone as far as it can go and it is not going to save the union. So we will be getting lots of Richard Who? and Labour in Scotland stuff in the newspapers and TV from now.
      FMA. (Federalism My Arse). RTRA (Red Tories Ride again)

      Angela Haggerty and Aiden Kerr have already jumped ship and taken the money. Will Cat Boyd follow?

    84. jfngw says:

      What would probably upset the Herald/Sunday Herald more is if we just ignored it, no tweets, no comments, if it wants to be a voice of the union that’s its choice, I’ll just leave them to it.

      I hope they have done their calculations correctly and there is enough unionist willing to buy their product, it’s a crowded market they are trying to appeal to.

    85. Colin Alexander says:

      As the topic is about people’s personal data being shared without their informed consent, I thought this very relevant:

      One of the good aspects of the Scottish Parliament and devolution. The chance to have your say:

      http://www.parliament.scot/gettinginvolved/petitions/PE01600-PE01699/PE01692_BackgroundInfo.aspx

      Petition can be found here:

      http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01692

    86. Clootie says:

      If you ever feel any sympathy for those employed in the media as their industry declines…pause and reflect on the damage they have done to your nation and the future of generations of Scots to come.

      They deserve no pity…they have chosen a master from another land.

      Propaganda has replaced journalism and the very fact that they ignore 50 percent of us is clear proof of that.

    87. Nana says:

      @Clootie

      Indeed “Propaganda has replaced journalism” as John Pilger ably tells us

      wee video here

      https://twitter.com/JerryHicksUnite/status/994884815932534784

    88. Clive Scott says:

      Useful place for filled dog poo bags would be the display stands of the loony yoon daily and weekly papers.

    89. Big Jock says:

      Very few people under 60 actually buy newspapers. The Sunday Herald backing independence maybe hasn’t helped it’s sales the way they expected.

      Look at the National. Most people read it online, but don’t subscribe or buy it. So maybe the SH is going back to the older age group who still buy hard print papers. Call me cynical, but I suspect their little dalliance with independence was all about money and sales.

      The reason most Indy supporters stopped buying papers is because we never had an Indi supporting one. So we went online and it replaced the printed papers for us. Guess what SH you were too late to take your readership back offline. You weren’t there until the last days of the campaign.

      We are the most informed group in politics, and that’s down to research and cross referral. We are not simple consumers like your Scotsman and Herald readers, who just lap it up.

      Good luck getting your unionists to buy your papers and dig you out of a hole. The SH will be folded in less than a year at the rate of loss.

    90. yesindyref2 says:

      Great posting by the way by Socrates MacSporran on the previous thread for those that missed it:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/holiday-boy-still-on-holiday/#comment-2362298

      So, let’s do some destructive testing on David Leask as a “journalist”, whatever title he complans about having in his long-winded series of tweets on his twotter thing.

      Starting with SLPs – Leask homed in on them because of their use by Russian mafia, and because of them being easier to abuse in Scotland than the LLP in the whole UK, proportionately far more of them being abused in that way for Scotland. Not a good look, and not good for our future credit ratings as an independent country or international status for our currency, as other countries could block us in various ways.

      Like other posters on the Herald, I complained about that in his threads as company law is reserved to Westminster. But lookee, the SNP got behind his one-man campaign, took it to Westminster, got cross-party support, and lo and behold, changes are being made, albeit slowly. Loopholes still exist and need tightened, but because of the bad pubhlicity one SLP handling company has closed shop on them effectively cutting them back. There is a big one to go on that by the way, they shall remain nameless as they’re bigger than me and a legal firm to boot. I know who you are, and so does David leask.

      So hey, David Leask done good, and Scotland actually owes him a debt of gratitude.

      Another thing was his great series of “As other see us”, took work, research, and heart as well.

      So what is wrong with our David then? Why does he obsess on Wings and not take any criticism?

      I think it’s a mixture of a superiority complex and a chip on the shoulder. He should change to baked poatotoes, some chilled out chilli, a few beans for wind, and a bit of soured cream or greek yoghurt instead of sour grapes. Delicious!

    91. jfngw says:

      Looks like we need to refer to Herald/Sunday Herald as Herald publications because even although they occupy the same building and all the stories appear on the same website they are totally different entities.

      A bit like how the BBC One news and BBC News24 are different entities despite occupying the same newsroom and have the same website.

      Now after the pedantry lets see if they can disprove any of the actual facts in the article, except possibly he should have used Herald publications.

    92. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      The motion which will propose to withhold the Scottish Parliament’s consent from the UK’s controversial EU Withdrawal Bill has been published.

      If backed by MSPs, the motion will deny Holyrood assent to the UK legislation on the grounds it “constrain(s) the legislative and executive competence of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government”.

      Scottish Brexit minister Michael Russell will put it forward during a Holyrood debate on Tuesday.

      Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Greens have all indicated that they will vote with the SNP.

      It comes as the row between the Scottish and UK governments over devolved powers post-Brexit has continued to intensify.

      Last-ditch talks to reach an agreement in April on the Withdrawal Bill failed even while the Welsh administration agreed to the deal tabled by UK ministers.

      STV News (https://stv.tv/news/politics/1414970-motion-to-withhold-consent-from-uk-brexit-bill-revealed/)

      Sorry – won’t archive.

      Get yer popcorn ready!!

    93. Desimond says:

      @Ronnie

      Don’t blame Twitter Ronnie, it can be easily summed up by The Beatles

      “The Love you take is equal to the love you make”

      Plenty of folk, myself included, love interacting, laughing and giving and getting good natured stick on Twitter.

      Its the fools who either take it or themselves too seriously that ruin the perception of it for non users.

    94. Not Convinced says:

      “the most popular pro-independence website on Earth is covertly sabotaging the movement for either MI5 or the KGB.”

      I would’ve thought someone of your obvious talents could manage to be covertly sabotaging the independence movement for MI5 and the KGB! Frankly, I have to say I’m a little disappointed! 😀

    95. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The Herald and the Sunday Herald are completely distinct entities with different staff, different editors and different editorial lines.”

      The vast bulk of their readership is on their website, which is a single unified entity. Their internal payroll arrangements are of little interest to me, or relevance to the substantive points.

    96. ScottishPsyche says:

      I do find the idea of buying a paper because editorially they claim to support Indy a bit strange. Like most people, all I want is fair and honest reporting. That and truthful analysis would be worth its weight in gold for anyone starting a paper but it genuinely seems impossible in this climate.

    97. wull2 says:

      There cant be many sleepers left to be waken up now.
      Ring you bell, blow your whistle and fly our flag, and vote YES next time, that wakens them up.

    98. Marcia says:

      Money before principles, so it is goodbye to the SH for good.

    99. galamcennalath says:

      Consider two current constitutional political phenomena. Brexit and Indy. The two couldn’t be more different, but in particular the way the msm behave towards each.

      As a notion, Brexit would never have got beyond the back room huddles of far right cliques had it not been for the media. And in particular the BBC. Imagine if Salmond/Sturgeon had been given the exposure Farage had!

      Yes, there were a lot of ordinary people who feel disenfranchised with politics and Brexit gave them a rallying point. However, without the media they would have focused elsewhere.

      No mainstream party wanted Brexit. The 2015 Tory Manifesto stated clearly that they supported the European single market.

      Brexit was preposterous notion, an act of self harm, yet given an air of credibility by the media. They are responsible of it.

      Contrast with Indy. It is the policy of Scotland’s ruling party and government. Our parliament has a majority of members who support it. Half the population support it. Indy is driven from the grass roots.

      The media is supposed to act as a mirror to society. In the case of Scotland, that couldn’t be less true!

    100. Robert Louis says:

      I find it hard to fathom the immaturity of some journalists nowadays. One yesterday did something pretty sh*tty to an innocent person, then only after much nagging online, she issued a statement which she called an apology. Except it wasn’t.

      It is a sign of immaturity to be wholly unable to accept that the consequences of your own actions have led to problems for you.

      Meanwhile, the petty minded, and frankly silly sniping by another so-called journalist carries on unabated.

      This is what we have for our media in Scotland. No wonder folk are fed up.

    101. Abulhaq says:

      Whether there ever appears a real pro-indy newspaper, the National isn’t the real thing, the printed format is heading for the scrap heap. Newspapers are dirty, messy/awkward to handle and waste trees. Online ‘papers’ are contemporary. All we need is for publishers to produce hand held device friendly products and for devices sophisticated enough to handle them.
      At the the moment even the best are clunky.
      Sort that out and they may be worth a subscription, or not.
      Re the National, it comes from a patently pro-union publisher, can we trust its intentions?
      A Trojan horse?
      It is two years since Brexit, the UK is effectively in political stasis, Moderate Scottish nationalism too.
      The whole thing needs a ‘radical’ urgent reboot.
      Btw I trust the official Nationalists will not be sending ‘loyal greetings’ to the royal pair.
      Vive la république et ainsi de suite…..

    102. schrodingers cat says:

      what about a sunday national? the iscot guys could do the supplement?

    103. gus1940 says:

      I have spent his afternoon switching between the news channels -BBC, SKY & CNN and have been disgusted by the news coverage from Israel.

      The coverage of Trump’s embassy move opening ceremony was about the worst example I have ever seen of sickening triumphal hypocrisy while at the same time the Israeli army continues with its genocidal massacre of Palestinians.

      Who will rid the world of this lunatic Trump who seems to be determined to start WW3.

      If there is a rerun of 9/11 it will be obvious who to blame -he is asking for it..

    104. Gary45% says:

      When all they have is scraping the bottom of the gutter press sewers.
      You know you are winning the battle.

    105. liz says:

      @proud Cybernat exact same happened to me.To say I was suspicious was an understatement.

      Once Leask started ranting solidly for 2 days-I blocked both of them.
      Was thinking they were looking to screen capture abuse.
      Thing is I never abuse anyone, although called Haggerty a cow for outing MBs partner

    106. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cathrin Semple says: 14 May, 2018 at 2:05 pm:

      “Will you post this comment on your blog? Will you my sweet behind.”

      Comic gold there, Cathrin, sweet behind or not. Unlike the SH, Rev Stu is always even handed and there it is, above, black upon white.

    107. Robert Louis says:

      All other arguments aside, I genuinely cannot for the life of me understand why some so-called Scottish journalists are currently going out of their way to alienate any potential readers. No matter what your political standpoint, it really makes no sense at all.

      Very, very odd behaviour.

      Meanwhile in the real world, it now seems almost all MSP’s of all parties will support the Scottish Government in their parliamentary motion refusing consent to the brexit bill. The only exception is of course Davidson and her wee group of right wing nutters. I fully expect the headlines tomorrow to be ‘Davidson isolated over brexit bill’.

    108. ScottishPsyche says:

      I love the idea of all the SH /H/ ET journos/reporters or whatever, sitting at the one desk arguing over whether they are the Chief reporter that day for whichever publication.

      ‘TODAY, I AM THE CHIEF REPORTER FOR THE HERALD’
      ‘NO. TODAY YOU ARE WRITING AN IN-DEPTH REPORT FOR THE SUNDAY HERALD’
      ‘OK, BUT TOMORROW?
      ‘NO, TOMORROW, YOU ARE WRITING FOR THE EVENING TIMES’
      ‘AS THE CHIEF REPORTER?’
      ‘FFS, DAVID…’

    109. Bill McLean says:

      Over a luckily long life and again luckily living in many countries I have never ever read such rubbish as I’ve read in the Scottish press when I have been fortunate enough to be at home. I’ve read them all and eventually ditched them all bar the National. Scottish print media is a rare form of shite written by propagandists for the benefit of another country and it’s regime at Westminster. Since the National is part of the same group as the Herald and SH, i’m even thinking of dropping it. Why pay to be abused. Not by the National but by the group that owns it!

    110. We’ve been invited to appear on STV’s Scotland Tonight this evening. Unusual, out of the blue request, and disappointingly for me- I can’t accept as I’m attending the superb Patrick Doyle event at the Citizen’s Theatre. Peter a Bell is taking the bullet for the team.

    111. Thepnr says:

      @iScot Magazine

      That could be very interesting!

    112. auld highlander says:

      Journalists they call themselves but I have a different name for them.

      Yes sir, no sir, tugs forelock.

      Erse lickers, plain and simple, just establishment ERSE LICKERS.

    113. schrodingers cat says:

      Bill McLean

      give the national a break, it employsmany of our best, including wgd etc.

      if it turns, i would imagine wgd would ditch it anyway, and if it does, i will support you 100% but until then, let this go

    114. James D says:

      Wull: – “But could a few pro-Indy web-sites and journalists get together, and put out something special every Sunday on social media? With a web-site of its own. ”

      There is a Sunday program called “Full Scottish” on Broadcasting Scotland – https://www.broadcastingscotland.scot/ to fill that gap that you might like.

    115. Tinto Chiel says:

      “The SH will be folded in less than a year at the rate of loss.”

      Maybe it will just get some of that nice, new BBC money to employ journalists in “the regions”, Big Jock.

      MSM circulation figures may be plummeting but in the short term at least the Dead Tree Press needs to get its message out on Brexit and Scottish Independence to its ageing readership, so subsidy money will be found for as long as it is deemed necessary.

      Those daily headlines shrieking their lies and cant do have an effect, unfortunately.

    116. jfngw says:

      Herald journalist responds to criticism

      ‘Nah..Nah..NehNah..Nah. I’m right you are all wrong , now p*ss of you cybernat trolls. Look ma, I’m top of the world’.

    117. yesindyref2 says:

      @ScottishPsyche
      That was funny 🙂

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      The National publishes articles on the website on the Sunday, about 10 yesterday. Maybe it’ll come out with a Sunday print edition – hey, it could ask iScot for an article or two!

    119. schrodingers cat says:

      Cathrin Semple

      Magnus Gardham never worked for the Sunday Herald, he was Political Reporter of The Herald.

      havers Catherin, stu always gives room for unionists to make a fool of themselves in public

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/author/profile/73347.Magnus_Gardham/

      soz for link folks

    120. PictAtRandom says:


      Big Jock says:
      14 May, 2018 at 2:59 pm

      If you believe in independence then you have to accept that to get there you have to bring everyone to the party. You can’t just invite those who agree with you.

      Yes you can, if you’re a pc europhile.

    121. Tam the Bam. says:

      A wee note for #BlameStuey

      STV are running a piece about ‘Indy supporters & bloggers v Sunday Herald on STV TONIGHT…10-30pm.

    122. ROBBO says:

      After the 2014 Indy you disapproved of a boycot of certain commercial enterprises which were believed to exert undue influence on their employees and supporters to reject Independence. I agreed with that at the time but IF we are seriously to combat the increasing distortions the media are guilty of then I feel we should be targeting the advertisers in these rags exactly the same technique D Trump is using in his ‘war’ on Iran and others.

    123. Haggishunter says:

      Just wondering when the Brit establishment will control social media?

    124. ronnie anderson says:

      iScot Ya big Crapper LoL . Still if their intent is to knock iScot then you’ve played a blinder by getting Peter Bell to field the questions .

    125. Nana says:

      O/T

      No idea when this started– Nicola talking with reuters

      watch here

      https://twitter.com/ReutersUK/status/996075007657689088

    126. schrodingers cat says:

      ot

      Reuters UK
      ?
      Verified account

      @ReutersUK
      31m31 minutes ago

      LIVE: When there is clarity on the possible UK-EU #Brexit deal in the autumn, then we can say whether we would want a new independence referendum – Scottish First Minister @NicolaSturgeon says

    127. frogesque says:

      @Wull2: 5.16

      Fully intend to. To get 100k supporters of at Dumfries (not the easiest place to get to) may be a stretch but Bannockburn/Stirling on 23rd. June is a real possibility.

      Lets make 100k happen and show the world we are not joking.

      Any chance of drone, light aircraft or helicopter pics for indisputable evidence?

      Quite sure the spooks know exactly what the headcount was for Glasgow; and they are rattled!

    128. Andy-B says:

      I occasionally (not now) bought the Sunday Herald, and read a few of Haggerty’s column’s, I found her work to be mediocre at best.

      I guess her irresponsible double standards merely confirmed what most people already knew, that she’s a very poor, dare I say the word journalist?

    129. Pacman says:

      O/T

      I had read that M&G Investments has forecast that UK Mortgage rates will likely to rise as the Bank of England ends it’s Term Funding Scheme which was a response to stimulate economic activity after the Brexit vote.

      Are we only now going to start seeing the real effects of Brexit?

    130. yesindyref2 says:

      @Nana
      Interesting. Pieces of jigsaws fitting together, maybe.

      Doesn’t play for me mind, quite a few media don’t (old set up).

    131. jfngw says:

      Hate to be pedantic but I spotted that Mr Leask has listed a number of columnists that he claims are employed by the Herald. Employed infers they have salaried roles, but I suspect at least some of these people are paid on a per column basis (commissioned, rather than employed) and not actually employees of Newsquest.

      I hope he is telling the truth and all these people are employees of the company, I would hate to think I was being deceived. After all he claims he is forensic in his details and condemns others for minor detail discrepancies.

    132. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Louis @ 17:46:

      I fully expect the headlines tomorrow to be ‘Davidson isolated over Brexit bill’.

      Ah, RL, dinna let your tongue get too stuck in your cheek there! =laugh=

    133. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Abulhaq at 5.26

      How infantile. You obviously don’t read the National. There are of course many of our enemies pretending to be our friends attacking the national because every day it represents in the widest sense the huge and varied views about our political positioning and our future.

    134. Nana says:

      @yesindyref2

      Nicola was asked by a wall st journo about the state of the economy and going for indy, she replied as things stand Westminster control most of the levers so surely independence would be a change for the better…..words to that effect.

      Try and get it working as it’s been fairly good, other than the scotsman journo trying to get her to condemn Alex and RT

    135. ronnie anderson says:

      Sumbudy looking fur a argument Cathrin Semple 2.05 why would anybudy in their rite mind give 2 Fs wether sumither budy wiz a editor or not . Yoonery gon mad .

    136. schrodingers cat says:

      frogesque

      much has been said about such marches only speak to the converted, but im not so sure

      i see the glum unionist faces, the jealous faces of labour supporters

      people like to belong, be on the winning side, be part of the party, not looking in from the outside,

      thats what got the unionist rattled/

      i wasnt at the last glasgow auob rally, nor can i make dumfries but i have organised buses in the past for events and will do so again in future

      perhaps these rallies are what will give our movement the momentum it needs to get us over the winning line. i dunno, maybe im wrong but i cant see any reason not to try.

      good luck in dumfries and i hope i can make stirling, it is traditionally a rally point for scots, precisely because of its location, and if we gathered under the castle, we wouldnt need drones

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      @Nana
      Sadly I need XP for my old business programs with thousands of documents, artwork etc, and daren’t risk updating the likes of Jave and so on.

      What’s funny is that the head of MI5 has said that Russia is lying. I daresay the head of the KGB has said the UK is lying. And one that RT is a state propaganda broadcaster, and the other that the BBC is a state propaganda broadcaster. Mmm, who to believe?

      I’ve got it – both of them.

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      Sorry, GRU not KGB.

    139. Meg merrilees says:

      O/t

      oh dear. Had a conversation with an older scottish lady today. I now her quite well and we were discussing the papers and how they don’t report things properly.

      crossed wires alert…

      I mentioned the baby box burning fiasco and she went off on one but not about the burning episode , my friend went off for a full three minutes about how dangerous it all was, how ridiculous it was, it was too tall and you can’t see the a baby inside, how it was a waste of money!!!!! and experts had said that it was a bad idea. Oh, and lots of women don’t need all these handouts, it’s just ridiculous.

      I tried to say that they had been used in Finland for decades, there weren’t any incidents of babies burning to death in them and that part of the idea was to get you along to the midwife and registered so that you had regular check-ups. Plus you get a really reliable thermometer.

      To no avail, so there you have it:

      The Scottish Government is wasting money giving people handouts that they don’t need for babies and it’s far too dangerous to put a baby in a cardboard box. Job Done!
      She is a ‘No’ voter and voted’ Leave’ but the vitriol was extraordinary.

    140. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – defence
      Meanwhile Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson is due to say a £2.5 billion pounds investment will secure at least 8 thousand jobs at BAE systems in Barrow.

      This multibillion-pound investment in our nuclear submarines shows our unwavering commitment to keeping the UK safe and secure from intensifying threats. Agincourt will complete the Royal Navy’s seven-strong fleet of hunter-killer attack subs, the most powerful to ever enter British service, whilst our nuclear deterrent is the ultimate defence against the most extreme dangers we could possibly face.

      Todays news supports 8,000 BAE Systems’ submarine jobs, as well as thousands more in the supply chain, protecting prosperity and providing opportunity right across the country.

      That’s nice. Meanwhile the UK is putting out to tender internationally the build of 3 support ships, probably around 200 metres long, all of which could have been built by BAE if they’d invested in Scotstoun and Govan (330 metre hall was planned), or probably be built at Inchgreen on the Clyde:

      “Overall South Slipway: 270m x 41.65m internal & external
      Overall North Slipway: 270m x 32.5m internal & external”

      https://www.clbh.co.uk/facilities/inchgreen-drydock

      No, they weren’t promised to the Clyde but 13 Type 26 were and a max now of 8 will be built instead. And 5 OPVs is no substitute in terms of jobs for 5 Type 26 – 3 times the size and complexity.

      Inchgreen is owned by Cammell-Laird who also own the Liverpool shipyard. Go figure. And yeah, you won’t see this information about the Clyde on defence websites unless I post it there.

    141. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh good grief, talking about Leask there was this tweet from him 19th April in his determination to allow UK unionists wiggle and lying down room:

      Sorry, There was no “promise” on non-complex military ships (which can’t be made on the Upper Clyde anyway, no room). I can see why unions continue to be miffed but we’re confusing apples and oranges here.” – my bold

      Did you say “we’re confusing” Gunga Din?

    142. FatCandy says:

      This is possibly one of the most bizarre stories I’ve read on Wings.

      Could you employ McWhirter?

    143. jfngw says:

      I suspect Mr Leask claim that Mr Gardham is not a government employee is using the technicality that special advisors are classed as temporary civil servants, but they are not politically neutral and work directly for a minister.

      It’s using smoke and mirrors to claim the do not work for the government, despite the fact they will normally lose the role with a change of government.

      I’m trained to spot misleading information.

    144. yesindyref2 says:

      @jfngw: “I’m trained to spot misleading information.

      You should be a journalist.

      Oh, wait …

    145. Cactus says:

      To the ones that couldn’t make the fifth…

      Be seeing yee’s on the second.

      And to the ones that can.

      Let us be the new world champions of marching.

      For and of Dumfries.

      For and of Scotland.

      Walkies!

    146. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 19:52:

      Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson is due to say a £2.5 billion pounds investment will secure at least 8 thousand jobs at BAE systems in Barrow.

      I’m sure that Tory UKGov announcement will be wonderful news for Corbyn’s union paymasters…

      (…Doubt it not, just ask Jackie Baillie…)

    147. TheItalianJob says:

      Nana @ 7.02pm

      Thanks for the link.

      Very interesting discussion and good responses to the interviewer who allowed Nicola to reply with no interruptions.

      Nicola also responded well to the various questions even the one from the tit from the Scotsman!! who queried Alex Salmonds programme on RT and whether the SNP should censure him.

    148. mike cassidy says:

      An American perspective on the MSM.

      Comedian Michelle Wolf provided the roast at The White House Correspondents Dinner

      Her roasting specifically of print media from about 17.20

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDbx1uArVOM

      And apparently they were not impressed.

      http://archive.is/iwVEO

    149. frogesque says:

      Watched the whole of Nicola’s interview with Reuters and the following Q&A.

      A world class politician giving any student of politics of any colour a master-class on how to communicate with the media.

      https://www.pscp.tv/w/1jMJgqpYevYKL

    150. Rock says:

      Buy the fake “independence supporting” The National to keep its elder sisters The Herald and The Sunday Herald alive.

      The fake’s chief lobbyst here claims that it supports independence 100%.

      Why has it then published only one article by the Rev. Stuart Campbell till now?

    151. yesindyref2 says:

      cRock of shit

    152. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Rock @ 20:33,

      Standard rockamoan #7. Right on cue. Feel better to have got one out again?

      You win no converts with your predictable little moans-du-jour, so for the life of me I have no idea why you persist regardless. (In fact, are you entirely well..?)

    153. Rock says:

      Big Jock says:
      14 May, 2018 at 4:51 pm

      “Call me cynical, but I suspect their little dalliance with independence was all about money and sales.”

      Exactly the same with the fake “independence supporting” The National.

      Its only purpose is to milk the most gullible independence supporters by making them feel good, while hiding itself from the general public in case it might have a positive effect towards the independence cause.

      Yes, call me cynical too.

    154. wull says:

      Thanks James D. at 6.12 pm. I’ll have a look.

    155. Returnofthemac says:

      Meg merrilees@7.45
      I feel your pain. I’ve tried in the supermarket to convince member of the public not to cover the National to be met with vitriol about the Scottish government, Alex Salmond and anything remotely connected to independence. Ah mean we should know our place.

    156. ScottishPsyche says:

      So are the Herald group going to print an apology for misleading readers about who works for them?

    157. Iain says:

      I forget how tiny is the english navy,have they got six ships up for sale.
      Is the Norways bigger, it’s only a matter of time.
      Still two aircraft carriers escorted by fast rowing boats surely must scare the nasty Russians.

    158. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I’m cynical too.

      It’s become so predictable that it, almost, causes you to wet your pants when it’s predictable comment appears, between around 7pm and 11pm.

      You’d think they’d review their tactics, iye? Friend-winning, it isn’t.

    159. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      The pedant in me compels me to point out that I introduced an abberant apostrophe into my last comment.

      My second use of “it’s” should, of course, have been “its”, referring to the input of “it”.

      Apologies for any offence caused – except to “it”. Offence was meant.

    160. Arthur thomson says:

      The Britnats just cannot handle the up front assertiveness of Wings. They have had minimal experience of other people challenging their version of reality, as promoted by the media that herds them. Together they are incensed by the affrontery of people who want a better more equitable way of life.

      It’s a rude awakening for them but that’s life.

    161. Valerie says:

      Christ, now Simon Pia shouting “Trump” on Scotland Tonight.

      How is this a selling strategy? Calling your readers or potential buyer a white supremacist???

      What is the weather like for these journalists with their heads wedged firmly up their rectum?

      Who do they think they are???

      Stop buying their shite ffs!

    162. Cubby says:

      British Nationalists paid to troll are so so boring.

      Get yourself a decent job guys.

    163. Robert Peffers says:

      @ronnie anderson says: 14 May, 2018 at 7:25 pm@

      “Sumbudy looking fur a argument Cathrin Semple 2.05 why would anybudy in their rite mind give 2 Fs wether sumither budy wiz a editor or not . Yoonery gon mad .”

      Aye! Ronnie. Thir mad aa richt. Bliddy hoppin mad. I’ve been at this Independence Game a long time and I cannot remember any time when they, the Westminster lot, were this worried and upset about independence.

      Anyway, let’s face it, there is something deeply satisfying when all an Indy supporter needs to say in reply to all this claptrap about how poor and independent Scotland is upon remaining in the Union is to ask them politely, “If the Kingdom of Scotland is so dependent upon the Kingdom of England then why is it that the Kingdom of England is so desperately keen to hold onto the Kingdom of Scotland it claims to be subsidising?

      Now note I always go to the trouble of saying, “The Kingdom of Scotland”, and, “The Kingdom of England”, and there’s good reason for doing so.

      Sooner or later these types will question that usage. Then you know you have got them where you want them. The answer, of course, is, “Hadn’t you noticed the Westminster Parliament is officially the United Kingdom Parliament and not either the Parliament of England or the British Parliament?” Last time I looked there are only two kingdoms in the union and when Scotland decides to go what is officially left is not the rUnited Kingdom but the Kingdom of England and the United Kingdom ends.

      When the reality hits them that Scotland is not leaving the United Kingdom but the Kingdom of Scotland is leaving the Kingdom of England you can usually see the shock on their faces when the truth hits them.

    164. Effijy says:

      The Herald is a distortion of the truth.

      The Right Wing nut cases pulling the strings there are psychotic.

      The paper will continue to run with subscribers as the wealthy backers will continue to fund it as a pathetic propaganda pamphlet

      Love how the righteous don’t allow anyone to challenge them or give them the right to ask questions.

      Its only their diatribe that matters in their corrupt world.

      I would never ouch a Herald with a barge pole.

      Cant wait to see the next round of circulation figures.

    165. Ghillie says:

      I wonder if the vitriol we are witnessing from the Sunday Herald editorial staff is that they know that they shot the bolt too soon.

      Last weekend the SH outed itself as not for independence for Scotland.

      It was all a scam after all.

      We are never more angry than when angry with ourselves.

      And the Glasgow Sunday Herald is pretty upset with its self right now.

    166. Macjim says:

      I had been noticing something odd going on over at Common Space while Angela Haggerty was there but I just put it down to the site being balanced in its stories, but now, I see there’s been something going on behind the scenes.
      Also, with the Sunday Herald (since AH moved in), it too had been changing but again, I just thought it was being balanced in its stories, but no… it’s being brought back into the ways of all other UK mainstream media’s.
      Well, I’m glad now that I didn’t buy the last issue of this paper if that’s what they considered news, outing someone against there wishes just to sell a paper… Shame on them.
      So what now? Maybe it’s time for the National to take up the mantle and produce the Sunday National paper to compete with the unionist Sunday rags.

    167. Maybe I f some of you tried to answer some of Rocks statements instead of just dismissing them your arguments would go down better I mean why has the national only published one article by Stu., ??? I also find it strange

    168. yesindyref2 says:

      @Blair Paterson “I mean why has the national only published one article by Stu

      OK, I’ll bite i n the absence of an answer from Rev.

      Media rarely publishes articles about other media, specially in a critical way. It’s probably against their “ethics” and fairly reasonably so as well.

      Most of Rev’s articles are critical of media, so no traditional media would publish them.

      If on the other hand Rev does a survey – e.g. Panelbase – The National and other papers HAVE picked up the story.

      It’s just as simple as that, no conspiracy, and any divisive crap from the likes of Rock and anyone who supports that point of view trying to cut The National sales, the only newspaper that supports Indy bar none, are bollocks.

    169. defo says:

      N MacK.
      What Chomsky said to Marr.

    170. Big Jock says:

      Can someone explain the ” Plastic Paddy” thing. I understand Haggerty is from Bute. Is she claiming she is Irish.

      As someone who’s ancestors are 80% Irish but whos parents and grandparents are Scottish. I remember some relatives trying to tell me I was Irish. Mental! I only know Scotland so I thought fuck off you eejits and don’t tell me what I am.

      Haggerty can claim to be Irish if she wants , but like some of my relatives I would call them “Plastic Paddies” it’s just a term for someone who has never been to Ireland but claims the nationality.



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