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Holiday Boy Still On Holiday

Posted on May 12, 2018 by

Chris Cairns continues to slack in the USA.

We anticipate his return to the drawing board next weekend, the wastrel.

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    1. 12 05 18 14:56

      Holiday Boy Still On Holiday | speymouth

    355 to “Holiday Boy Still On Holiday”

    1. jimnarlene says:

      Is that a safety harness Hamish is wearing, or a parachute?

    2. Den Cairns says:

      Nice shot of 432 Park Ave behind the Freedom Tower. Not the prettiest of condos but having a slightly higher roof height than the FT is imho ooft.

    3. Dan Huil says:

      I once gave a Clydesdale Bank £20 to the barman in an Irish pub in NY to stick on the pub wall with the other [less valuable] bank notes. Scots mean?!

    4. Brian McHugh says:

      Google “Larry Silverstein Insurance Payout” and you will be hard pushed to call it the Freedom Tower.

    5. Hiz meer holidays than Thomas Cooke, so he does.

    6. mogabee says:

      Is that Chris broadening Hamish’s horizons?

      Maybe there should be a competition for artist of the week, for when that guy Holiday takes the resident one for frequent flier trips… 😀 😀 😀 😀

    7. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Glad you posted this one Rev. I was about to write a missing person post.

      Looking forward to the wastrel’s return.

    8. Craig P says:

      No Chris Cairns, so here’s a classic polandball to entertain you instead:

    9. Hamish100 says:

      Hamish’s (no relation) NYC pose looking west reminds me of the film Local Hero when the phone rings back in Scotland.

      No place like home or Scotland

    10. Breeks says:

      The Tree of Liberty says:
      12 May, 2018 at 1:46 pm
      Hiz meer holidays than Thomas Cooke, so he does.

      Mair day’s off than Santy Clause…

    11. Donald anderson says:

      Dan Huil says:
      12 May, 2018 at 1:34 pm
      I once gave a Clydesdale Bank £20 to the barman in an Irish pub in NY to stick on the pub wall with the other [less valuable] bank notes. Scots mean?

      In the mid 60’s whilst at sea we docked in Galveston Texas. We had to have shore passes ID from the US Customs Polis. The Skipper insisted we sign “British”. I refused. The crew was about third from Glasgow, third from Dublin and third from London. I pointed out that the English seaman could sign English and was told, it was “the same thing”. Eventuality the cops got fed up, let the Scots and Irish go ashore and held the English back for about an hour with bureaucratic red tape. A big black cop telt me his grandfaither was flung oot o’ Aiberdeen fur stealin; a sheep. “Fit”?

      We went to a bar and the bar wumman, took some of our Scots and Irish notes and tacked them on the wall behind the bar, along with other foreign notes and gave us oor change. Eventually oor English chums came in, making a fuss about us not being British. One of them offered an English pound note to put behind the bar. They were a’ pit oot and telt tae F O “Ya Limey faggots”.

    12. Hamish100 says:

      BBC News 24 — Thousands marching in London. Full TV coverage, different camera angles as well. Full discussion thereafter

      Remind you of their coverage just 7 days ago?

      No, me neither.

    13. yesindyref2 says:

      For those following my David Leask saga, to recap I reported his posting using the “report” buttoin against his posting, because it made a false accusation in his reply to my posting: “Please stop putting misleading information gleaned from blogs on to our website“, where the figures (relative race hate crimes) were actually taken from two articles on the BBC website from September last year and verified by official government statistics from both governments.

      Well, his posting has been deleted, whether by the moderators or Leask himself I don’t know. I await his apology as requested in one of my two replies to his reply.

      We mustn’t let them get away with it. Below the line they’re just punters, the same as us, and should follow the same forum rules.

    14. Graf Midgehunter says:

      It’s obviously a working holiday – working on his golf swing.

      Rumors abound that he’s considering joining a club called Mar a Lago, something to do with “more approporiate” apparently …

      Can’t we get the other guy, you know, the long thin one to do something for us. 😉

    15. Janet says:

      He’s entitled to a holiday.

      Things will heat-up later in the year, politically speaking.

    16. The utter gall of Corbyn sneaking into Glasgow for half an hour, and spouting Brit Nat nonsense about protecting jobs in domestic shipyards when he comes to power.
      Fuck them all. I’ll bet you the workers at Govan didn’t know Leonard and Corbyn were in Govan Road. There might have been ructions.
      I see that they got a wee gullible lassie ‘apprentice’ to hold up a GMB poster. They’re lying to you, kid. Just ask Lamont, ‘bayonet the wounded’ Ian Davidson, and Mags Curran. They gleefully teamed up with the Tories to sell Scottish shipyard workers’ jobs for their precious Union.
      It’s High Time the Union members kicked these fuckin’ Labour plants out of the Union.
      Shop stewards who do not represent the views of their members abusing their position to tout Leonard and Corbyn as the Great Sociallist Saviours.
      Barrow Liverpool and Portsmouth would be getting the ‘domestic ‘ contracts in Corbyn’s Red Tory Britland.

      These evil men are an affront to Socialism.

      They are as imperial and fascist as Jacob, Boris, and Treeza.

      Fuck off back to England and don’t come back.
      I’ve had enough of these patronising tossers and their Brit Nat ProudScotBut poodles.

      Just keep out of Scotland with your litany of lies and colonial patronage; just fuck off, full stop.
      As you can see I’ve reached the end of my tether.

    17. Cactus says:

      A super snap Chris, makes me think of GTA’s Los Santos 😉

      Aussi a big shout out to the guys with all the Scotland and Yes supporting flags earlier today… be-decking and flying high on BOTH sides of the bridge on St Vincent St passing over Glasgow’s motorway number eight, toot toot!

      An excellent encore from last weekend.

      Next week too aye?

      7 days remaining to go…


      14 days remaining to go…

      21 days remaining to go Scotland, Dumfries.

    18. ronnie anderson says:

      Rev there wiz nothing stoppin you getting the Crayons oot , you will of coarse get ridiculed for your attempts at drawing but all in good part except, that is the Britnat brigade

    19. Thepnr says:

      O/T ‘I feel so stupid’: Trump supporters ‘tricked by the devil’ now facing financial ruin

      Aye well you were telt and no point bleating about it now Suckers! Remind you of anything?

    20. Clapper57 says:

      Had two Labour canvassers at my door today , I live in Edinburgh.

      Partner answered door.

      Canvasser:”Hi we’re from Scottish Labour”

      Partner : ” Not interested in Labour”

      Canvasser : Not interested in Labour “?

      Partner : “Correct”.

      Canvasser :” Who do you vote for” ?

      Partner : “None of your business”.

      Canvasser : ” None of my business ” ?

      Partner : “Bye”. Door then shut in their faces.

      Me : ” Who was at the door” ?

      Partner : ” A friggen parrot canvassing for Labour “.

    21. Northern Rock says:

      Re Brexit.

      “Theresa May splits cabinet to consider customs options”

      “Brexiteers such as Boris Johnson are against Mrs May’s preferred option of a “customs partnership”, which is backed by Remain-voting ministers.”

      “Mr Johnson’s preferred model relies on technology to minimise customs checks. The EU has expressed doubts about whether either option would work.”

      The problem Treeza has with any of the two options is that the EU have told her that none of them will be acceptable.

      It is as if the Tories are oblivious to what the EU are telling them.

      And the EU Brexit Summit is only weeks away.

    22. Northern Rock says:

      It is no only Scotland, N Ireland or Gibraltar who have major problems with Brexit. The Falkland Islands also have concerns over Brexit.

      “The Falkland Islands’ government has sounded the alarm over leaving the EU single market, warning that the territory would take a “catastrophic” economic hit if it faces new tariffs and quotas as a result of Brexit.”

      “The Falkland Islands’ fishing industry exports almost exclusively to the EU, with 94 per cent of fishing exports by bulk heading to the single market in 2017. Fishing accounts for 41 per cent of the islands’ exports and two-thirds of the corporation tax received by its treasury.”

    23. Street Andrew says:

      I just worry he’s across the pond negotiating a trade deal to sell his cartoons to the bloody Americans !!

      You’re too good for them, Chris. Don’t do it.

    24. yesindyref2 says:

      Talk about one-sided. From twitter:

      (Leask): “I suspect you will hear a lot more of it. Though I also think – and hope- the SNP will now show some leadership and step in on social media to make clear its support for a free press and its condemnation of dysfunctional ‘cybernat’ behaviours damaging its cause.

      but as someome else says, presumably ironically: “We must live in the only country where the press and members of the public argue profusely. That’s a sorry state to be in.

      Does Leask think the press is beyond criticism, some sort of supergod we should all bow down to on scrapit knees and a look of worship on our moronic adoring faces?

      Did Leask every take part in the Wild West World of Usenet, particularly some of the worst of the alt.* hierarchy?

      Get a skin man, stop being so delicate. Can you imagine this guy posting on alt.flame.flame.flame? Or even trying to read alt.flame.flame.flame.flame without fainting?

      Good Heavens above, all the journos seem to be like flowers afraid of losing their previous petals.

      They should all get pollinated, they might blossom for a change.

      Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, that’s what it’s all about.

    25. yesindyref2 says:

      “precious” petals!

    26. TJenny says:

      Clapper57 – I also live in Edinburgh and must have had said SLabour canvassers at the door, although they only put a leaflet through the letterbox and definitely didn’t knock on dooor. Must have been deterred by my YES poster in the window. 🙂

      Btw – why are they canvassing? Are there any election coming up? Or has Treeza tipped them the wink about another snap GE?

    27. yesindyref2 says:

      Always worth re-reading this article for those who’d like us to believe the Scottish Government is weak and powerless:

      As noted above, if the UK government cannot be persuaded to come to (reasonable) terms the Scottish government also has the option of legislating for a second referendum without a section 30 order and taking its chances before the courts.

    28. Breeks says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      12 May, 2018 at 5:48 pm
      Talk about one-sided. From twitter:…..

      ……Get a skin man, stop being so delicate. Can you imagine this guy posting on alt.flame.flame.flame? Or even trying to read alt.flame.flame.flame.flame without fainting?

      It’s not about Leask being thin skinned. See it for what it is. And that’s a cynical attempt to get criticism marginalised and closed down. Clearly they’re beginning to feel the heat. Confidence in journalism is evidently collapsing, and rather than admit being “fund oot “ over their own mendacity, their first instinct is to blame somebody else.

      Have no sympathy. They’re not in trouble because CyberNats give them a hard time. They’re in trouble because they’re Unionist propaganda rags, who take their lead from Labour Press releases. They stitched up YES and Scotland itself back in 2014, and they’ll do the same again to IndyRef2 if we let them get away with it.

      The big chuckle for me is whether the pressure they’re under is coming from sales; and why would it since the BBC is part funding them, or whether the real pressure they’re under is the diminishing return they’re getting from their anti Scottish rhetoric and propaganda.

      Their big problem is they sold us out back in 2014, but skewed the debate to such an extent the 2014 Constitutional Referendum didn’t resolve a single Constitutional issue, and four years later we are on the verge of a re-run. That’s what happens when you cheat in order to win. Your “victory”is meaningless and worthless, and you’ve shot your bolt for respect and integrity next time. You reap what you sow Mr Leask.

      The biggest mystery to me is why we are still calling these tractor ‘Ed’s and their anti Scottish horseshit journalists at all. Modern day Daniel Defoes the lot of them.

    29. Clapper57 says:


      Hi TJenny, check out Scottish Labour Twitter apparently it’s their national campaign day and they are campaigning for ‘real change’ don’t ya know.

      Funny because I thought it was same old same old.

      Have a good evening.

      On a separate note and apologies if already been noted by others but noticed this today :

      ‘EU Convergence Uplift payments of £190m were triggered because of the low rate paid to hill farmers in Scotland.

      But the money was shared out by the Treasury across the UK farming sector.

      The terms of a review of the payments had been agreed but UK Environment Secretary Michael Gove said it had been held up by the Treasury.

      Scotland’s Rural Economy Secretary Fergus Ewing said the delay was “completely unacceptable.

      The long-running row dates back to 2013, when the EU announced moves to redistribute Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) payments more fairly, on the basis of average Euros per hectare.

      The EU paid the uplift money to bring Scottish hill farmers up to the average per-hectare payments of all the other EU countries.

      However, the decision was made by the UK government to spread the payments across the whole farming sector, based on historical distributions.

      The UK Treasury distributed about £30m to Scottish farmers.

      Mr Ewing said: “Scottish hill farmers are owed £160m, which the UK government has repeatedly ignored.

      “I have been clear throughout that the money was earned in Scotland, and quite frankly should be returned to Scotland.”

      In a letter to Mr Ewing, Mr Gove said that he wanted swift progress on establishing the agreed review but that the Treasury was ultimately responsible for financing.

      He added that “the question of future funding of agriculture is one which the Treasury needs to give careful consideration given its wider responsibilities”.

      Ian Blackford commented on twitter :

      “The EU recognised the low level of financial support that it grants to crofters & farmers in Scotland with bill sheep. Funds were given to the UK which were primarily for Scottish crofters and farmers. The UK is not handing the cash over the way it should”

      So wingers THIS is why powers should not be grabbed by WM post Brexit because we all know which areas will be well provided for and which will not.And yet today Labour in Scotland are fannying about on the doorsteps with leaflets stating Tory and SNP austerity cuts ( not for viewers in Wales where only Tory austerity is to blame eh Labour ya big Welfare Reform Bill abstainers Ho Hum must think we’re dumb )….with the ‘For the many not the few’ slogan which, for Scotland, re above EU convergence uplift payments is actually an accurate slogan while remaining part of the UKOK.

    30. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 15:18,

      Keep up the good work!

      Unlike Breeks, I’m not sure if he’s utterly cynical and it’s all part of a propaganda campaign, or if he’s in a genuine state of self-denial of reality, and by confronting him with inconvenient facts you’re stressing-out his heretofore assumed cosy world view. (Always a painful matter, that.)

      If the latter, he’s not alone, of course. It’s a situation that many members of the public-at-large currently seem to share. (Hence our current “parking” of indy.)

      But unlike members of the public, as a journalist he just can’t dodge the issue, uncomfortable for him as it may well be. He can’t just retreat into cheap accusations of “cybernattery” and get away with it.

      Poor him.

      Keep at it, staying polite (as you do), and maybe even he will reach a tipping point. That or his background motives (a la Breeks) will become visible to all.

      It’s not fun, and its slow going, but it’s very necessary.

    31. Glamaig says:

      Our press are sick.

      Try googling ‘do baby boxes reduce infant mortality’ and check what comes up – here is 9 of the top 12 that came up.

      Cot death charity raises concerns over Finnish-style ‘baby boxes

      Do baby boxes really save lives? – BBC News

      Are cardboard baby boxes safe for a sleeping baby? – The Lullaby Trust

      Can baby boxes reduce cot death? | MadeForMums

      Cot death charity raises concerns over Finnish-style ‘baby boxes

      Cot death charity disputes claim baby boxes reduce infant mortality

      Charity concerned at claims baby boxes reduce ‘cot death’

      As Popularity Of Baby Boxes Grows, Skeptics Say More Testing Is

      Baby boxes ‘AREN’T safe and don’t protect against sudden infant …

    32. TJenny says:

      Clapper57 – Thanks, I’ll try to. 🙂

      Labourhame (Dunc Hothersall) apparently hosted a (Slab) Federalism Debate in Edinburgh today and natch said it went well – haven’t seen any pics so no idea if attended well or not. Among speakers were Ian Murray MP and Henry McLeish.
      The foolish federalism dead horse getting flogged again. Dearie me.

      On the upside my MP, Tommy Sheppard and MSP, Ben Macpherson, are coming to my street next Friday and I can discuss any concerns they could help with re Westminster, pensions, tax etc or devolved Holyrood subjects, health, education etc. I don’t, but it’s nice to know they care. 🙂

    33. TJenny says:

      Should have made it clearer that I don’t have any concerns to discuss, not that I don’t care.

    34. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TJenny –


      Imagine spending one’s Saturday afternoon listening to McLeish & Murray? FFS, it’d be like Mike & Bernie Winters without the ‘humour’.


    35. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I picked up the second link (below) from:-

      Sounds like a plan…

    36. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cactus says: 12 May, 2018 at 4:17 pm:

      “A super snap Chris, makes me think of GTA’s Los Santos ?”

      Div ye mean it’s mibbies like whit ye see frae sittin nixt tae yon pool wi Franklin at number 3671 Whispymound Drive in Vinewood Hills an lookin sooth?

    37. jfngw says:

      I see that journalist are still aggrieved with people disagreeing with them. Nick Eardley is fed up being called a Tory/Labour stooge, then possibly, as English is their stock and trade, by not using ambiguous phrases they would not be misinterpreted.

      Then pops in Leask, someone who calls anyone who disagrees with him a cybernat and seems to block them. He wants to stop those insulting him by insulting them.

      If they are so sensitive why not just not use twitter or stop BTL comments on their publications, or are the clicks more important.

      Then they object to the fact that after insulting their readers/viewers they complain that they threaten to not buy their produce.

      Also Mr Eardley should be aware that if the corp he worked for did not use political party handouts as news or at least stated the story was based on a political party claim rather than a ‘critic’ then I would take their reporting more seriously.

    38. Tinto Chiel says:

      Any fule kno the best shots from the top are the Chrysler and the Flatiron buildings.

      Wot is Cairns up to?

      Get him back sharpish, Rev (flight risk?).

    39. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Have you ever seen a more amateurish use of Photoshop or, more likely, Gimp?

    40. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Cheil.

      One of my favourite buildings, going by external appearance.

    41. ScottishPsyche says:

      Regarding the SH diatribe to be published tomorrow.

      Looks to me like the plan is to call on the SNP to actively come out against anyone in the party or even outwith who criticises the SH.

      If the SNP do not do that then the SH will say they cannot support the SNP and thus allow them to make the break they so obviously want. The SH wants back in the fold and will rebrand as ‘neutral’ citing the tone of debate in Scotland – which it, of course, has had an active role in setting.

    42. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi ScottishPsyche.

      That’s a fair analysis. Question is – where does that leave The National, as Newsquest’s ONLY (and Scotland’s ONLY) daily newspaper, which is pro-indy?

      Will it be closed down in the next week or two (to preserve a united media front against indy), or will surging sales keep it alive?

      Time will tell.

    43. ScottishPsyche says:


      I don’t know about the National.

      I had such high hopes but it seems it set out to court the Bella crowd from the outset. Bella has sat quietly back while this all rages. I genuinely believe this is a strategy to silence any voices deemed not on-message – ie Wings. I can see the National folding quite soon and Bella becoming part of the Herald set up – it cannot support itself but the on-message indy crowd doesn’t want to let it die.

    44. Tinto Chiel says:

      @BDTT: Hi, Brian. Is that tweet for real? Incredible!

      I said to Mrs TC on the march last week that I had heard a lot of English voices about us and, of course, the big white rose for English Scots for Independence was easily visible too at several points.

      The Flatiron can be tricky to photograph at ground level to capture its full impact. It’s quite a building but the Chrysler is an Art Deco beauty imo, even at night, when it’s illuminated nicely.

      ukunionvoice are liars, simples and badyins at that.

    45. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Cheil.

      The ‘English Scots For Yes’ stall, wherever, is always a source of CAKES AND FOOD.

      My choice last Saturday was a ham salad roll (not a bap or a barm cake), which filled an empty space in my belly at 12.10pm. (I had been at Glagow Green with empty belly from 8.30ish.)

    46. Indy2 says:

      Sunday Herald front page (jpg.):

    47. Robin says:

      So far the UK/England are last in the Eurovision song contest.

      England have got to be the most detested country in Europe.

      See,,,it’s not just a Scots thing. England are disliked equally between all the Nations of Europe.

    48. Lenny Hartley says:

      See the Sunday Herald is Trolling a private citizen on its front page. It can gtf as far as i am concerned, i will never buy that rag again, sooner it goes down the pan the better.

    49. frogesque says:

      @Indy2: 11.05

      Nup, not paying £1.90 to read Scotland is shite and all nasty Nats suck so yahboo.

    50. ronnie anderson says:

      10.42 BDTT that was yer ain fawt I offered tae make U a couple of rolls n steak sausage for breakfast .

    51. Robin says:

      A hate the English (establishment) and all that they stand for.

      From their media to their warmongering governments.

      Lets hope Nicola gives the go-ahead for IndyRef2 in Spring next year.

    52. Brent Crude (our oil type) was $27 a barrel

      now trading at $78 a barrel,

      has been over $50> per barrel for nearly 3 years,

      Capita, UK Govs privatised (jobs for the boys) civil service,

      now trading at £1.23 per share,

      had been trading at £13,20 per share,

      the very rich shareholders in Capita are leaving like rats from a sinking ship,

      UK Gov will liquidate Capita as soon as their rich chums get out with as much money as poss.

    53. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ronnie.

      PARP! Do you expect a cojent answer after Old Poultenay (excuse the spelling)?

    54. Robin says:

      Who’d a guessed it, Israel gave England 8 points in Eurovision.

      That’s for the backing from Treeza when Israel goes to war with Iran.

      They think we button up the back. LOL

    55. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      ScottishPsyche at 9.56

      Having difficulty making any sense of that post. The SH does not support independence and hasn’t done so for some time but it obviously was relying on lots of us being stupid and not noticing.

      The National supports independence 100% and there is no connection between the editorial stances of both these organs which are editorially independent of each other. The publisher of both and its US parent company publish hundreds of different newspapers and magazines with different editorial teams and positions.

      I can see no reason why anybody would imagine the National was about to collapse. It’s a hard job keeping it running but it is through the worst now and is improving all the time.

      Which other publication gives you Carolyn Leckie, Gordon McIntyre-Kemp, Wee Ginger Dug, Kevin McKenna, Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh, Patrick Harvie, Ross Greer, Pat Kane, George Kerevan, Mhairi Black, Cat Boyd, Michael Fry, Alan Riach, Greg Moodie, Hamish MacPherson, Andrew Tickell and other Nat columnists every week?

      I get pretty pissed off by those who moan away about media bias and then don’t buy the National (apparently because it is printed by the same company that prints the Herald). This makes about as much sense as not buying the Beano because it is printed by the same company that prints the Dundee Courier.

      We need a Sunday National

    56. Ghillie says:

      Oor Hamish should lead the Tartan Week parade =)

      Katy Tunstel was a picture in her tartan suit and has a lovely voice. It was a joy to see her looking so happy!

      New York, New York is an amazing place.

      Enjoy your wee trip Chris =)

    57. Valerie says:

      FFS, that Sunday Herald front page.

      Alex has some monumental patience to withstand decades of trolling.

      I haven’t bought that shitrag for nigh on 10 years.

    58. Ghillie says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @ 11.44 pm

      I would welcome a Sunday National.

      Often find The National sold out, which is good =)

      I don’t agree with all of the writers for The National but never before in my life have I found a daily newspaper that I wanted to read from cover to cover.

      I do hope The National grows from strength to strength and mibee one day they can break away from their current bosses and be truly independent too.

      As for the SH. They should hang their heads in shame. Scotland’s disgrace.

      Thank God for Wings and all our excellent Indy Media 🙂

      I’m popping over for a wee keek at Truly Scottish TV now =)

    59. Cubby says:

      Hutcheon = British Nationalist = Haggarty = Sunday Herald = Tories.

      Just don’t buy any of these propaganda British Nationalist rags and that includes the two faced Sunday Herald.

      The media in Scotland is a national disgrace. Non stop anti Scotland propaganda. Tractors the lot of them. One by one like Torrance they will bugger off to London after doing their masters bidding where they will be rewarded with a nice dog biscuit. Woof Woof Hutcheon.

    60. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If Neil Mackay’s statement about last week’s SH cover has been leaked yet I haven’t seen it.

      Regardless of what it says, some of the comments directed against him have been out of order, especially on Twitter.

      None of us have perfect understanding of the whole context. I was as disgusted as anyone else by *that* front page, but we simply don’t know the full story behind how that image was chosen and/or placed where it ended-up.

      I’ve met Mackay and ‘worked’ with him on non-journalistic projects. Regardless of what his statement says (or how it’s received by indy-supporters) he’s one of the finest and bravest investigative journalists around, and nothing can devalue his published work e.g. ‘The War On Truth’ and the ‘Stakeknife’ expose.

      I believe he’s on ‘our’ side and will continue to do so until he proves otherwise.

    61. Ghillie says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 12.19 am

      That is an honest and heartfelt defense of Neil Mackay and your insight is invaluable.

      Please will you let us know what was going on whenever it becomes clear?

    62. HandandShrimp says:


      I think that is fair enough. The pictures, editing, and sub editing are generally separate from the actual article and we have all seen headlines that spin a line which often have sweet FA to do with the story below the headline. In fact it seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

    63. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ghillie –

      Cheers for that.

      Given what we already know about the way msm works and what it does/can do to the real ‘players’, who can say for sure when anything becomes ‘clear’?

      Tomorrow will be a mess of finger-pointing and recrimination. That much is certain.

      And while we’re all dissecting this latest ‘domestic’, Mundell and his cohorts quietly construct the ‘refreshed’ version of the Scottish Office which will, in effect, eviscerate the Holyrood Parliament of whatever significant powers it has.

      Neil Mackay has many strings to his bow. ‘We’ don’t, and what few we have are being loosened by the hour.

    64. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tinto Chiel says: 12 May, 2018 at 9:36 pm

      ” … Wot is Cairns up to?
      Get him back sharpish, Rev (flight risk?).”

      It’s much worse than that, Tinto Chiel.

      Some USAsian security numptie might shoot him down as a terrorist carrying politically loaded cartoons.

    65. HandandShrimp says:

      This week’s SH seems bizarrely irrelevant to current news issues. It is just a personal attack on Salmond and from what I can see not a particularly accurate one. Nae harm to Mrs Litvinenko she has been sorely wronged by Putin and the UK should have taken a much stronger line at the time with the Kremlin but there are far more worthy targets than Alex’s independently made show being screened on RT. If it vexes the UK so much screen it C4 or similar. RT don’t make it so it is available to another broadcaster.

    66. Rock says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      12 May, 2018 at 11:17 pm

      “See the Sunday Herald is Trolling a private citizen on its front page.”

      Buy the fake “independence supporting” The National to keep its elder sisters The Herald and The Sunday Herald alive.

      The fake’s chief lobbyst here claims that it supports independence 100%.

      Why has it then published only one article by the Rev. Stuart Campbell till now?

    67. Robert Peffers says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon says: 12 May, 2018 at 10:05 pm:

      “Will it be closed down in the next week or two (to preserve a united media front against indy), or will surging sales keep it alive?”

      My experience is that there cannot be surging sales of the National. Anytime I’ve been a wee bit late getting out and about I found it impossible to find a copy for sale in the shops and I’ve never seen any bundles of Nationals for return.

      If all the shops are sold out there must surely be room for increasing the print run a little bit to meet the demand.

    68. Robert Peffers says:

      @Indy2 says: 12 May, 2018 at 11:05 pm:

      “Sunday Herald front page (jpg.):

      The Sunday Herald is a disgrace to Scotland and Scots. Running such an obviously wrong story like that. Now I cannot blame the poor widow for she has the excuse of her loved one being murdered but it must be obvious to the SH that the poor widow is wrong because she says, (according to the SH), that Salmond should give up, “his Job”, with RT.

      Salmond doesn’t have a job with RT. He has his own production aired on RT and he has full and complete editorial control over the contents of his show. In other words he is not employed by them bit is employing RT to air his show.

      By running with such an article the SH only exposes it’s own anti independence/anti-Scottish biased views and it’s propensity to use even a grieving widows grief if they think it can harm the independence movement. Seems to me it hasn’t succeeded in that aim.

      I may be wrong, but the big march through Glasgow indicates otherwise but the bitter and desperate MSM output, and especially that of both the BBC and STV, is backfiring upon the Britnat/English/UK nationalists (cough!), patriots and the slow but constant move towards independence throughout the Scottish Kingdom is proof that the English/British/UK Patriots are losing the battle.

      It also looks very like the opinion polls are not telling the true story – of course they never have done so- and their only real use is to indicate trends in voting but not actual percentages of votes and the trend is decidedly towards independence.

    69. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robin says: 12 May, 2018 at 11:09 pm:

      ” … it’s not just a Scots thing. England are disliked equally between all the Nations of Europe.”

      The phrase, “Perfidious Albion”, is World wide and was not earned for charitable works by the English. Look at an older globe of the World and those countries coloured pink have every right to refer to The Kingdom of England as, “Perfidious Albion”.

      However, much to our Shame, the Kingdom of Scotland was tarred with the same brush for The Kingdom od Scotland signed up, rather unwillingly by the Hoi polio, to join the Treaty of Union and form the United Kingdom. It was largely the resultant trade with the colonies that built the City of Glasgow and the New Town of Edinburgh.

      However, joining that union began the trend for the Scottish working classes becoming Scotland’s all time greatest export to the World. It also began the trend of Scots becoming cannon fodder for His/Her Majesty’s Royal Navy and the Soldiers of the King/Queen and Their Majesty’s Royal Air Force.

      Scotland has little to thank the Union for and it’s long passed the time we changed those trends.

    70. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 2.28
      Good points there Robert,but we must always be clear that it’s Westminster that we don’t approve of…
      I’m sure you’ll be the first to confirm that the yes movement,the SNP and Wingers will have not a thing to do with any anti (the people) English shit!

      Hope your gettin along ok,my best to you and yours. X .

    71. Confused says:

      The Sunday Herald frontpage has Alex Salmond’s picture juxtaposed with a headline about a “scots serial killer” (dennis nilsen) – then along with the picture of the dying man, Litvinenko, plus the grieving widow – it conjures up a nasty web of associations, like on a quick scam – SALMOND is a MURDERER … just a coincidence, hey – nothing to see here, move along. Or maybe it’s the same psychological trickery used to sell toothpaste. I haven’t bought a printed paper for 10 years, or read one in 5 – and it just makes me feel CLEAN.

      In other news – it’s been a good week for the wankers –

      – this guy is a poster boy for neoliberalism – everything about what he does is just, wrong – the rent-seeking, the private ownership of national infrastructure, the junk bond selling, the leveraged-buyouts, the union bashing, the HQ in sleazy Luxembourg, then there’s the “lawfare” against a democratically elected govt, OURS.

      I would like to find out where he lives just so I could APPLY for 4 FRACKING licenses on each side of him.

      Once independent, and after Nicola has handed on the baton after a glorious and successful stewardship, I would like the first leader after her to be a “Duterte-clone” who will wash away these parasites.

      Past my bedtime. Yawn.

    72. Meg merrilees says:

      T jenny @6.11pm

      Re Why are Labour Canvassing ?

      We ( the SNP) are actively canvassing in the Stirling area because the Tories are working hard around here trying to keep their 147 seat lead. Of course if Treeza can’t keep control over the next few weeks and I think the 15th is ‘make or break’ for the Continuity Bill she could find herself ousted by the rampant Brexiteers – or her Government could collapse if there is a revolt in the H of C over the single market/ customs union.

      There might be a change at the top but I don’t think it would lead to an election – don’t forget we have the most massive squirrel of all this week, the Royal Wedding. Who knows what they will try and sneak out in the news this week.

      Just realised I’ll be in Spain and shall miss it all – smiley face!!

    73. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS “Keep at it, staying polite (as you do), and maybe even he will reach a tipping point. That or his background motives (a la Breeks) will become visible to all.” (and Breeks).

      Thanks for that. Well, I’m 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th on Neil Mackay’s thread. My 2nd got deleted, hence number 3 and 4, so they reinstated it.

      It’s hard, it’s a bit nasty, it’s firm, and it’s all I can be bothered to do any more. Either they get the message – or they don’t. I’ve been posting since late 2012 on the Herald, one of the handful of people who were post-moderated or the other way around (in other words my psotings appeared straight away) and buggered if I can be bothered any more if they don’t change their spots and start to respect posters, readers, tweeters – and us vile cybernats.

      It’s their bed and they can fucking lie on it from now on.

      Thanks also to Ian B for his good words about Neil Mackay, I’ve looked at his timeline in the past and he does seem solid on Indy. Otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered my arse.

      But from now on, the SH is on its own, and needs to mend its ways – as does Leask. No more arrogance and dissing good sound solid Indy supporters.

      And the odd pro-Indy article might help.

    74. yesindyref2 says:

      One of a handul of pro-indy posters I meant. The unionists were rampaging around like it was going out of fashion before that, with only one or two to put the other side.

    75. Cactus says:

      Indeed Robert Peffers at 9:03pm.

      Aye just like 3671 Whispymound Drive, always found it quite amusing the ‘sum’ of Franklin’s address.

      The magic number features frequently in GTAV.

      Rockstar knows.

    76. From the, British Nationalist,Democratic Unionist Party official webpage,

      celebrating 100 years since deciding to stick with Westminster control instead of becoming their own masters,

      The DUP believes that 2021 should not be marked solely by events but also by illustrations of our values. In our centenary year, every child born will receive a Baby Box with every child having an equal start. This Baby Box will be based on the long-established and highly successful Finnish model.

    77. Luigi says:

      RE: Sunday Herald’s recent move to the “dark side”.

      IMO someone at the top has been leaned on – favours/threats, the usual deep state interference. Do not underestimate the deep state’s control. Virtually all the social media/IT giants (Google, Facebook, Twitter) did not just grow out of nothing, and certainly did not grow because of the brilliance of their “inventors”. No, they have all been cleverly set up in a way to maintain control of the masses. Take Mark Zuckerburg for example – Mark Zuckerburg! Come on, folks. These so-called geniuses have been set up by the dark forces. In the shadows, there are dark hands up their backsides controlling them like the glove puppets that they are.

      The dark forces almost definitely have something on a few SNP figures, but not all. They don’t have complete control, which is causing them serious problems. 🙂

    78. Ken500 says:

      Neil Slorance is having a ball. On the ball. Pulse of the Eurovision. Get a vision from him.

      SH should be giving Alex Salmond a column. Not slagging him off. SH some people never learn. Groudhog day.

      What happened to the Skcipals. The guy that produced the fake dossier on Trump. Salted away. Why was Netanyahu at the Russian remembrance parade?

    79. Capella says:

      That SH front page reeks of MI6 interference. Why would a “Scottish” newspaper get involved in the desperate propaganda scams of the British State? They’re getting very careless these days. Or desparate.

      BREXIT endgame on the horizon?

    80. Nana says:

      Revealed: Advice to Tory MPs on how to be ‘real’ on Instagram

      Disgraced NHS boss who retired on £1.9million pension pot four years ago RE-HIRED

    81. Macart says:

      It appears the march really stirred up a hornets nest of yoonery. Most especially in the media. They’ve been crafting a narrative of ‘no interest’ in a referendum for the past couple of years and that narrative was left in tatters as of last Saturday.

      The media reaction?

      Instant, panicked, and as per usual, utterly devoid of thought for consequences to the general public. They truly are as predictable as they are appalling. Blame the people, the readers, everyone but themselves.

      The media was wrong, is in the wrong and this is a QED moment. They should pay attention to what is being said to them. They won’t. This will end in only one way at this point. A complete breakdown of trust.

      Their choice. (shrugs)

    82. Macart says:

      Mornin’ Nana

      Seems the march stirred up quite the response.

      Bless. 😀

      Reading just in time for brekkie.

    83. Ken500 says:

      The SH gets justified criticism. The SNP are supposed to bail them out. Somehow it is the SNP’s fault. The one Party with unanimous support standing up for Scotland.

    84. Nana says:

      It sure did Macart, they are running scared 🙂

      The EU is to push for an optional six-month extension to theBrexit transition period to be built in to the UK’s withdrawal agreement,

      Brexit and Ireland: The Border is a sideshow, if you’re an eel

      Brexit: acting in the national interest

    85. Fred says:

      Thanks Nana, away oot for a walk & not buy the Sunday Herald, feels like a weight has drapped aff ma shooders!

    86. Nana says:

      Morning Fred, enjoy the walk and the extra money in your pocket 🙂

    87. Sinky says:

      What to do about Sunday Herald? Editor Neil Mackay knows Nicola Sturgeon has spoken out against those who hurl abuse on social media but is taking the p*ss when this week’s front page is an old anti Alex Salmond and RT rant while he could have put Henry McLeish’s warning over Westminster’s power grab on front page which is more topical for a start.

      “Cybernats” frustration is down to fact that only one paper supports Indy and BBC ignores SNP on UK wide programmes.

      Also on Alex Salmond talk show why is there nothing of such quality on BBC or STV at a reasonable viewing time?

    88. Robert Louis says:

      You know all this hysterical boo-hooing by the oh-so ‘precious’ so-called journalists of Scotland is frankly irritating. OK, I get it, some of them might not support independence, indeed some might even think Theresa May is a decent human being. But that misses the point.

      We currently have a devolved Parliament in Scotland, one that was voted into existence by the electorate of Scotland by a massive majority – something which so-called journalists seem to have forgotten. Yet it is under full scale attack by the Tories at Westminster. Its powers, we have quite literally been told by the Westminster puppet Mundell, could at a whim be removed by Westminster after brexit. Our country is being forcibly removed from the EU, because England wants it. Is that really democracy? Would any other country in the world have such obedient, submissive journalists who seem to think that is ok? So, where is the anger from Scotland’s media, where is the outrage by editorial and leader writers? Seriously, where is it?

      Why is it only in Scotland that such actions may be taken with impunity by another Government in another place, that fly in the face of ANY notion of democracy, and the so-called journalists of Scotland only occasionally mention it. Whether you like the SNP or not, or even if you hate the idea of independence, the current Scottish Government of Scotland is literally fighting tooth and nail within its powers to hold on to a Scottish Parliament, which belongs to the people of Scotland. Yet, what do we get from Scotland’s so-called journalists?? Day after day after day of utter unfounded puerile nonsense about freaking baby boxes – which apparently are a really good idea in ANY other part of the world EXCEPT Scotland. Likewise a brand new Forth crossing, which was delivered on time and below budget, something worthy of praise in any other country of the world, but NOT in Scotland.

      That is just two wee examples, as to why the people of Scotland are so heartily sick and fed up of the utter p*sh printed day in, day out by so-called journalists in Scotland. In ANY other country of the world, they would be standing shoulder to shoulder with the Scottish Government, not to win independence, but to stand up for the country in which they live, Scotland. That is the problem. Until Newspaper editors and so-called journalists in Scotland sniff the coffee and wake up to how deep their pre-conditioned colonial way of thinking goes, the people of Scotland will get more and more sickened by their ill-informed, ridiculous, one-sided writing.

      Today, we see a once great newspaper in Scotland, resort to insulting those who even dared to quite justifiably criticise them. The oh so precious so-called journalists of Scotland. Burying their collective heads in their own self inflated ego’s. Their truly are none so blind, as those who will not see.

    89. One_Scot says:

      Robert Louis, great post.

    90. Luigi says:

      The British establishment is doing what it always has done – tight control from the shadows. The big difference now is that this state control of our minds is loosening, and they are panicking big time. They have been rattled since 2007 and they have made some pretty big mistakes recently. The stakes are at an all time high, and those in panic mode tend to make stupid mistakes as they try to force things. It’s getting silly now and even those that don’t pay much attention can see what’s going on.

      At this stage, we don’t have to panic. We are winning. Just keep up the rebuttals, start laughing at them and continue to exist. It’s all we have to do at this stage.

      Give em enough rope and get your popcorn. 🙂

    91. Old Pete says:

      Sunday Herald supports Independence ? Are they having a laugh Time to ditch the vile UK, can we just leave as soon as possible.

    92. wull2 says:

      Don’t panic, just get out the popcorn and vote YES next time.

      Report if you can anything you happen to see or hear.

    93. alexicon says:

      The burden of Scotland strikes again.
      Thought the Brent’s were done for.
      Surprise, surprise!

    94. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      The EU is to push for an optional six-month extension to theBrexit transition period to be built in to the UK’s withdrawal agreement

      …. which would delay any noticible Brexit induced changes until AFTER Holyrood 2021. Barring a breakdown and crash out before then, that is.

      The BritNats would welcome no Brexit-proper before that vote, which of course they plan to win.

    95. HandandShrimp says:

      There is no doubt that the SH did run some great articles and front pages in the run up and immediate aftermath of the referendum. However, it is no there noo…it must have shifted. Key writers and editors have changed and it us now ploughing a different furrow. That happens in papers but there should be no expectation on their part that we will continue to buy the paper.

    96. galamcennalath says:

      A fundamental rule of society – All rights come with responsibilities.

      The problem with too many jouros is they think that somehow doesn’t apply to them.

      They have the freedom to print whatever they want but with that come huge responsibilities! Yet they appear to wash their hands of any.

    97. Breeks says:

      A wee bit perspective is required.

      The Sunday Herald maybe is, maybe isn’t pro Independence.

      Why is the tone of a Sunday Newspaper more contentious than the great disparity between the virtual monopoly of BritNat Establishment broadcasting and media? A news media which calls itself journalism, but which is really there to administer The Establishment’s narrative and propaganda.

      We need to get our priorities right about what constitutes a scandal or National humiliation.

      We live in a country where “fair” or “balanced” reporting is a pipe dream for us “separatists”. Proper Scottish journalism ought to be having a real problem with that, but on the whole it doesn’t, because our news media is predominantly Unionist, and the last thing it wants is to give widespread exposure to the pro Independence arguments which Unionism simply cannot address.

      We remain competitive with every stanchion of the Unionist Establishment opposing us and trying discredit us to shut us down. They are burning gifts to Scottish babies ffs, and calling the baby box the scandal! If we actually did secure a more level playing field, then we would wipe the floor with Unionist arguments. The Unionist media will only allow balanced media debate over its dead body. That’s their call, but it sounds fine to me.

      I don’t care about whether lifelong readers of the Sunday Herald are unhappy or disappointed. I’m unhappy that it’s shaping up like 2013/14 all over again, and the big central themes of Scottish Independence and Sovereign subjugation through Brexit are already playing second fiddle to tangential will-O-the-wisp minutiae like whether a Sunday newspaper is pro or anti independence and suffering criticism for it.

      The Establishment media is once again setting the agenda, controlling the narrative, and manipulating the reality. “We” jump on the scraps which fall from the Unionist Media’s table, and it seems “we” haven’t learned a damn thing since 2014, where the great edifice of Scottish Independence was defined as an issue about keeping the pound as currency.

      We are still relying on the UK Establishment to be adequately fair to us in order that we might win. Too many of us expect to use the tools of the UK Establishment against itself… such as the media’s sense of propriety, or the forthcoming Supreme Court adjudication.

      Too many of us still expect power to be given. But that is just the tiresome game we play until more of us are ready to take it. And no, that doesn’t mean take it by force, but merely to enact our Sovereign primacy and stand by it.

    98. galamcennalath says:

      Breeks says:

      The Establishment media is once again setting the agenda, controlling the narrative, and manipulating the reality.

      Agreed. If I were to criticise one aspect of the YES campaign in 2014 it would be the way our political leaders appeared to spend their time reacting rather than positively promoting.

      It was understandable to some extent. We were presenting a prospectus for change, the BritNats were supposed to represent simply no change. (Although that’s not how their campaign ended).

      However, NOW, with Brexit and the attacks on the existing constitutional settlement the YES side must take control of the debate and hound BritNats endlessly on the BIG issues. It is they who should be back-footed, and we should be setting the agenda.

      Those who command the agenda will win.

    99. Macart says:

      Been monitoring various threads this morning and yes, as expected, the general theme is that folk are upset with the media. Yes there is a considerable breakdown of trust between readerships and their one time go to titles. The media’s response to people being upset with them? It’s your fault. Oh and they’ve called upon the first minister and the SNP to do… something.

      This is entirely disingenuous. They’re not responsible for the actions of the media or the response the media’s actions provoke amongst the general public. The media are.

      If they print or broadcast things which clearly upset people, which drive them to anger or frustration. Things which drive people to respond intemperately? They shouldn’t be entirely surprised if a government which has next to no public access responds with some confusion and or a shrug. Also? Given the amount of pure pooh chucked at said government by the media on a 24/7, 365 a year basis, you’d need a heart of stone not to understand there are some who would have a hell mend ye moment thrown in for good measure. They are after all human, just like the rest of us.

      The media need to clearly understand two things. 1. They’ve spent generations convincing people that they have access, influence, that they can affect public opinion. They can’t then deny their access to the public when they get it wrong and upset large demographics with their narrative.

      2. They sell a product. That’s all they do. If people don’t like the product. Feel it is emotionally hurtful or puts them and theirs in literal harms way? They’re going to reserve the right to say so and withhold their support and their cash.

      As I’ve posted before, this really should be a QED moment for the mainstream media. I very much doubt it will be.

      Who knew?

    100. Bill McLean says:

      Robert Louis and Breeks – great posts, absolutely terrific. Since we will never be treated fairly by the UK Establishment they must not be allowed ever again to set the agenda. We can and should assert our sovereignty! Rock just don’t bother!

    101. Clydebuilt says:

      Sunday Herald:

      Last week front page photo gets backs up of Pro Indy folk
      PIF air grievances on Internet.
      Leask fans The flames
      Allowing today’s SH to continue rubbishing “Cybernats”
      Increasing the split between paper and Independence.

      Unionists start buying SH.
      SH drops pretence of supporting Independence.
      Job Done .

    102. Ian Brotherhood says:

      What has Neil Mackay said about the selection of that front-page image? Do we know who chose it?

      In the meantime, Angela Haggerty has caused utter mayhem. Twitter is heaving with rage over her ‘outing’ of Mhairi Black’s partner.

      Is this all coincidence?

      It fuckin reeks and I’m sick with anger – are they trying to get it all to kick off NI style? That’s genuinely how it feels now.

    103. Vestas says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood 10:23 am :

      “In the meantime, Angela Haggerty has caused utter mayhem. Twitter is heaving with rage over her ‘outing’ of Mhairi Black’s partner.”

      Haggerty is a malicious sectarian trolling bastard.

      The SH clearly wanted her for the clickbait factor, well fuck them if they don’t like that now!

      Might not have many sales or advertisers left but hey that’s what you get when you go trolling your customers.

    104. Colin Alexander says:

      Wings is all about feeding on the diet of tripe and mince fed by the media. It does that very good.

      But arguments over baby boxes or what the Daily Mail says about the Queensferry Crossing is only feeding off the media’s diatribe of misinformation.

      Wings helps to show that the mainstream media including the “impartial” BBC is heavily biased in what it reports and often more importantly, what it chooses NOT to report.

      Wings does not in itself give anyone a reason to vote FOR independence. It only reaffirms that the media cannot be trusted to supply impartial factual information.

      Only very rarely does it deal with the big issues, such as the constitutional matters of Scottish sovereignty, Brexit and devolution power grab.

      When it does, it comes as across as very weak compared to the likes of Craig Murray.

      However, Wings is Wings, Craig Murray is Craig Murray. They serve different purposes.

      For new visitors to the site Wings articles are hopefully an eye opener about how dishonest the media – especially television media such as the BBC, really is. For that purpose, it is an excellent site.

      Personally, it’s: Okay, got that: the media, including the BBC are very biased in favour of the Union and UK Establishment. Anything new to offer?

    105. Bill McLean says:

      Just read the Herald editor’s excuses for last week’s nonsense!
      Astonished that he could admit that “on reflection” it was the wrong picture WTF do all these highly paid supposed journos do when at work. Aren’t they supposed to get together to discuss what should be done. Astonishingly they failed to spot that the headline on the front page should have read “British Nationalists flying the Union Flag gave Nazi salutes at a march for Scottish Independence”! What utter rubbish from Mackay – sorry Ian!

    106. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Ian Brotherhood @10.23

      I think you may have a point there Ian the way the British Nationalist regime is conducting its operations would lead a reasonable person to conclude that they are attempting to generate a backlash.

      Fortunately for us the pro Independence side are a mixture of all religions and none. We are a mixture of all colours and races.

      There lies the problem for the regime there is no gulf between pro Independence folk and folk who are pro the English regime. The only difference is we want independence the pro regime people need independence they just need convincing.

      Must be frustrating for the centre who I think are attempting to stir up trouble so they can attack us.

      We are too clever for that.

    107. jfngw says:

      I see the Sunday Herald want the SNP to take ownership of what they see as an attack on their integrity (that’s laughable for some of their so called journos). But I’m not a member of the SNP, I criticise them off my own back, why would I stop because the SNP told me.

      Had a look at the SH headlines online, nothing to see here, not a story even worth clicking on.

      Their other gripe is Alex Salmond, he should stop broadcasting. Well that is the result of their insistence (too many story with this line for them to claim it’s not Herald policy) that he gives broadcasting the programme on RT as no other broadcaster is offering to pick it up. They seem to want to silence Salmond, after all the true idependence believers are employed at the SH, if we are to believe them.

    108. Capella says:

      The war on freedom of expression for online independistas is ratcheting up. Expect megaphone denunciations of “cybernats” from the MSM.

      Margaret Curran was invited to GMS this morning for the umpteenth time to discuss the Sunday papers. Turned it into a pro Labour edition (as usual) even hinting at Richard Leonard’s fothcoming announcement on how to deal with BREXIT. None of the actual papers feature this BTW.

      She also had a swipe at Police Scotland. They are finally getting round to dealing with Callum Steele who is particularly good at responding to random PSbad attacks. Also, one area in Scotland has a higher rate of knife attacks than London, a Sunday Express page 8 story says.

      There is obviously an election or referendum on the horizon.

    109. Luigi says:

      Every time they try to kill off oor Jedi Alex Salmond, he comes back bigger than ever!

      You would think they would have learned by now, but hey ho, sign of insanity I suppose. Gone mad with hatred. 🙂

    110. gus1940 says:

      Good Old BBC -This morning’s Marr Show chaired by arch right wing unionist Nick Robinson with Sunday Paper reviewers panel consisting of the Taxpayers Alliance woman straight off thursday’s QT, Camilla Long from Murdoch’s right wing Sunday Times and a token left wing journalist. At least nobody from Brillo’s Spectator this week.

      Nothing like a bit of political balance.

      And still to come Sunday Politics Scotland with Brewer _ I wonder which unionist stooges he will have on today – not forgetting whatever crap we get form Sarah Smith on the London segment.

    111. ronnie anderson says:

      Confused 3.31am Ratcliffe lives here

      Yodel ley yodel loo

    112. winifred McCartney says:

      Lets hope ‘on reflection’ they get the message when all the returned papers come back. It will never darken my door again, not after last week – your granny could have told you that picture was neither proportional, fair or in any way a reflection of the indy march. This week it is Salmond they are after – they are really getting worried now, they know it is game over.

    113. The story in the SH was never about Mrs Litvinenko or her departed husband,

      it was pure and simple `SNPbad`.

      The UK still buys £billions of Gas from the Evil Russian State,
      The English fitba team are still going to the Evil State of Russia fitba tournie,

      And what happened to the Skrypals,some conformation from themselves on their health and wellbeing should be made available to New Media.

    114. winifred McCartney says:

      Forgot to say we know what to expect from UKBBC and from the rest of the press, it is the fact they call themselves an indy supporting paper that riles. As for their integrity goes they would have to have some in order to find it.

    115. HandandShrimp says:

      Tried posting earlier but it disappeared into the ether.

      The SH was a great boon in 2014 and produced some fantastic front pages but in the words of McGonagall “it’s no there noo…it must have shifted”

      Editors and writers have changed the SH is now something different and that happens. However, there is no reason for us to continue to buy a paper that does not support us. The front page’s of the last couple of weeks are more than sufficient to tell us that the SH is positioning itself elsewhere.

      I also like the Alistair Davidson Tweet on Stu’s feed above. It is spot on. Questioning the press isn’t Trumpian. People no longer trust the press and that makes it easy for people like Trump to use the “this is just more fake news” argument. The fault lays firmly with excesses and crimes of the press over the years which has led to either indifference or complete mistrust in the profession of journalism. The same can be said of politicians and, sadly, priests and other religious leaders and justifiably so.

    116. louis.b.argyll says:

      New level of anti-dis-ambiguity-ism there Colin A.

      Catching up on two days, some great Wings comments very good points, re farm subsidies corruption etc.

    117. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Breeks at 9.42

      “The Sunday Herald maybe is, maybe isn’t pro Independence.”

      I have no idea why you are harbouring doubts. It hasn’t published a unlimited pro independence article in over a year and there is an attack (or several) on the SNP in every edition.

      It’s agenda is divisive, driving a wedge between the SNP and the supposedly “progressive” supporters for independence. (Unionist ploy)
      I will concede that it is entirely possible that some of its contributors are honest but naive and believe their own inflated egos – but I doubt it.

      On the other had it is very encouraging to find the Sunday Mail with a supportive double page spread on SNP MSP Emma Harper and nice photos of Nicola.
      Maybe the Mail(and to some extent the Record, which has similar balance regularly now) understand that about half their readership support independence and they see the way things are going.
      Whereas for forty years I bought the Herald and the Scotsman I now buy the National and the Record and I get lots of sensible politics online

    118. mr thms says:


      The current price of Brent oil is $77 a barrel. I can recall reading how Shell makes $5 billion everytime the price rises by $10. Regardless of the price, oil companies operating in the UKCS are all benefitting from a generous tax regime until 2020. It was introduced at a time when the price was around $20 a barrel. Is it right that devolved governments, local councils, public services, public sector pay, benefits and pensions are still subjected to financial constraints, when the UK Government can and should re-instate the previous tax regime.

    119. Robert Kerr says:


      Wingers please help me. I wish to cancel my “page suite” subscription to the Sunday Herald but continue with the National.

      How do I go about this task? and can I get a refund?

      Thank you

    120. brewsed says:

      (sarcasm) I didn’t know Alex Salmond was on RT. I will go and watch it now. Thank you Sunday Herald for telling me. (end sarcasm)

    121. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The first time I heard of Angela Haggerty, she was being attacked by some of the stupider and wilder elements within Ra Peepul – the Rangers support.

      The next thing I heard about her was, she had edited Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s book about Rangers: ‘Downfall.’ The downfall of Rangers is probably the best Scottish sports story ever, and, kudos to “Phi four Names” for his dogged pursuit of the story and the way he kept breaking Rangers’ stories which the Lap Top Loyal and their cohorts would not touch.

      However, I found ‘Downfall’ all but unreadable – because it was so-badly edited.

      I still question how someone who could make a pig’s ear of what should have been a page-turner could rise to become News Editor of the Sunday Herald.

      Then I remembered, Kevin McKenna, quite the worst of the several Sports Editors of Scotland on Sunday, for whom I worked is now one of the big beasts of Scottish journalism.

      Scotland has a long and proud history of sending our brightest and best furth of God’s Country – but, have we really exported ALL our talented full-time working journalists?

      I do know, at the Herald offices – where once giants bestrode the editorial floor – today there are gey few I can be bothered reading.

    122. louis.b.argyll says:

      As several above have alluded to..
      ..’The SNP can’t control what people complain about’

      I am close to the SNP but not controlled by them.

      The Herald is close to THE CONSERVATIVE AND UNUONIST PARTY and is clearly controlled by its editor.

    123. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Me @ 11.29pm: cojent should be cogent.

    124. Robin says:

      How we feel about the English seems to be a touchy subject on here.

      Are we all trying to be “Politically Correct”?

      If I say to an Englishman that Scotland should become an Independent Nation and that Englishman bursts out laughing at my suggestion, then how should I feel about that Englishman?

      If that Englishman then goes on to tell me that I would die of starvation if it were not for English taxpayers money keeping Scotland from turning into a complete basket case, how should I feel about that Englishman.

      The English tell us through their Politicians and their Media that Scotland is dependent on English money.

      Ask ANY English person what their thoughts are on Scottish Independence and their reaction is to roll about the floor laughing at you.

      In their eyes Scotland is of no more importance to them than the County of Yorkshire.

      So to sum up, anybody who is against Scotland becoming an Independent Nation is my enemy.

      So am I Anti-English, well yes I am, because of their Anti- Scottish Independence stance.

      Add to that the in-bred hatred we have of our closest neighbours.

    125. cearc says:

      Galamcennalth, 9.25.

      It doesn’t entirely delay the effects.

      Any transition agreement only effects our relationship with the EU.
      Not with other countries.

      After March we will have left the EU and their is no reason for other countries to apply their treaties and agreements with the EU to the UK, as if the still a member.

      So take, for instance, driving licences. The EU have mutual recognition agreements all over the place. Have the UK gov done anything about making their own? Do people know how and where to get an international licence from? How many people will arrive at airports and find themselves unable to hire a car?

      The EU customs union has extensive press coverage over which option (already dismissed by the EU) to go for but little mention that in March, unless we are a full member of EU union, we will have no agreements, tariffs or quotas with large chunks of the world. The UK cannot even become an individual member of the World Trade Organisation until after we have left EU.

      There will almost certainly be some very noticeable effects next April which will become increasingly difficult for the UK gov and the press to keep ignoring.

    126. K1 says:

      Love it, Alex Salmond is responding to the smear story in today’s Sunday Herald and also cancelled his subscription, last week…that is a result. Neil Mackay has literally ‘turned’, sorry Ian, wanted to give him benefit of the doubt, but this week’s SH is beyond the pale on the back of last week’s nonsense.

    127. Confused says:

      to ronnie anderson @ 11.13

      – thanks for the info, the Predator drones are being programmed as I type.

      – also thanks to smallaxe a while ago for a good link about fracking.

      The “juxtaposition” thing is not random – it was an old technique used in the days of a much stronger press code to “tip the wink” about which toff was having an affair/ was a homo / was a drunk/ had gambling debts. It is “oldskool” – and if you asked any psychologist, visual artist or advertising exec – they would see what was going on, right away.

    128. Robin says:

      BBC ITV and Sky News all running with the usual Two Party State, English Political debates this morning.

      And just to make sure you know which city is the most Important City in the World, they hang a huge picture of London at the back of them.

      Scotland, Wales and N Ireland:

      Know Your Limits !!!

      Now shut up Scotland and eat yer Porridge.

    129. ronnie anderson says:

      Robin 11.53

      You hate if you want to I certainly dont . I have many family/friends in England , doesn’t take long for the Troll to appear in your posts .

    130. Cubby says:

      I suggest that all Independence supporters stop buying these British Nationalist rags. All the newspapers (possible exception the National) are part of the British Nationalists propaganda machine.


    131. Robin says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      You have your views and I have mine.

      Or are you going to tell me to stop having a view????

    132. ScottieDog says:

      So watch out for ‘victim Angela’ tomorrow. Anger management Leask will be frothing at the mouth today ready to unleash his anti-nat bile in the coming days.

    133. HandandShrimp says:

      I think we should write off the SH as a lost cause and move on. There are bigger fish to fry and better allegiances to forge over the coming months. I have no doubt when the date is called the SH position will be “now is not the time” unless of course there is yet another change in the ranks of the SH and it once again swings its course fully behind independence.

    134. Archbishop of Dork says:

      To read Neil Mackay’s editorial is like hearing an admonitory harangue from a highly manipulative parent or teacher.

      The tenor and tactics are unmistakable. The pompous and overly long self justification. Followed by the inevitable attempt at inducing guilt by claiming to have wounded feelings.

      Then as a finale the stern warning to the supposedly miscreant offspring/pupil that they are sabotaging their own efforts and they had better get their act together.

      A lot of us have seen and heard all that kind of shit before Neil Mackay. You get your act together. Or don’t bother, if you prefer. You’re not that important. It doesn’t matter.

    135. ronnie anderson says:

      K1 loved this tweet. Never mind, I received a really encouraging text last November from a viewer about the quality of @AlexSalmondShow.
      “Hi Alex. Saw the show. Loved it. Great stuff. Best, Neil”
      That text was from Neil Mackay, editor of the Sunday Herald! (3/4)

      Neil Mackay now the equivalent of the Eunuch Journalist .

    136. K1 says:

      Aye Ronnie…it’s like the fucking twilight zone in Scottish msm.

    137. Robert Peffers says:

      @Liz g says: 13 May, 2018 at 3:16 am:

      “Good points there Robert,but we must always be clear that it’s Westminster that we don’t approve of…
      I’m sure you’ll be the first to confirm that the yes movement,the SNP and Wingers will have not a thing to do with any anti (the people) English shit!”

      Considering that my first wife, who was English, had a child from her brief sham marriage to a bigamist and I adopted the boy. Then my first wife died, not actually in child birth but shortly thereafter from complications. So I have an adopted English son. That also means the youngest son who recently died suddenly is half English. The other son I had with my second wife is 100% Scottish.

      I really have no religion but attended both RC & so called Non-Dom schools which back then were regarded as Protestant Schools.

      I can honestly say that I do not care what colour, creed or country of origin anyone comes from. For me we are all part of the one human race.

      What I am decidedly against is discrimination of any kind by anyone. That includes especially sectarianism.

      Many Scots only associate sectarianism with Christian sects but most other religions also have their own sects. For a prime example there are several sects within the Muslim faith and they most certainly are not all terrorists.

      As to my current state of health – it has recently suffered a sharp new decline. The cause has, as yet, not been diagnosed but I’m fairly certain of the general area as I have witness the same symptoms in a close friend.

      However, we old nationalists take a bit of killing off so I hope to live, however briefly, in an independent Scotland.

      To be honest, it is now the only thing that keeps me going. The remaining family are all grown up and well set on their own two feet. Scotland is, (almost all grown up), but not now yet on her own two feet.

      I really do not know anyone in the SNP who is in any way anti-the people of England, (or of any other country for that matter. Other governments on the other hand … well that is an entirely different matter. However, now that you bring the subject up, my main reason to be against other country’s Governments is more because of how they mistreat their own peoples rather than how they mistreat mine.

      So you take care of you and yours, for we must never forget that being without family is a very lonely place to be.

    138. Robin says:

      Mr R Anderson

      Why did you call me a Troll?

      Is it because I am against English Rule of my Country?

      If you are telling me to stop posting Anti-English material, then I can only take from that that you support English Rule of my Country.

      If that is correct, then who is the Troll,,me or you?

    139. colin alexander says:


      “New level of anti-dis-ambiguity-ism there Colin A”.

      Translation please, louis. Ta.

    140. colin alexander says:


      “New level of anti-dis-ambiguity-ism there Colin A”.

      Translation please, louis. Ta.

    141. Nana says:

      Some lunchtime links

      The First Minister writes for us ahead of Mental Health Awareness Week and says small steps can have the biggest impact.

      Their denunciation of the Lords is not just hypocritical, it is synthetic

    142. Nana says:

      I leave with this tweet from Mr Malky, get angry people and cancel your tv licences and your subs to unionist media. Don’t pay for propaganda.

    143. Robin says:

      If this love-in on Wings with the English continues, then we would be as well ditching the Saltire and start flying the Butchers Apron again.

      Rule Britannia !!!

      There are some on Wings who take this PC thing just a little too far.

      The English aren’t shy about telling us who the real masters are, are they???

      It’s time we started fighting back. In IndyRef1 the SNP were “Too Nice”.

      In IndyRef2 they need to show a lot more teeth.


    144. Robin says:

      Robert Peffers

      You are one of the very few on here who isn’t shy about calling out the English for what they are.

      You do it in your own intellectual way, but in my opinion in IndyRef2, there needs to be more “Anti-English” propaganda coming from our side of the border.

      It hasn’t done the English any harm up until now with their Anti-Scottish propaganda has it?

      We are still stuck in this stinkin Union.

    145. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cactus says: 13 May, 2018 at 6:42 am:

      “Aye just like 3671 Whispymound Drive, always found it quite amusing the ‘sum’ of Franklin’s address.
      The magic number features frequently in GTAV.
      Rockstar knows.”

      Aye! Rockstar (North), knows but I have the sneaky feeling that the rest of Rockstar, and Rockstar’s now parent company, don’t really get most of the Scottish humour and wee bits of Scotland in the place-names and the appearance of the Saltire and such things throughout the game. I’m certain that big chunks of the unique Scottish humour has flown well above most of the rest of the World.

      I think this is perhaps my third or fourth time re-playing GTA V and I’m still finding new wee bits of Scotland in the game. Another thing I discovered was that on YouTube there are a series of clips of the Los Angeles Skid Row. I was amazed just how true to the real thing some of the areas in the game really are.

    146. Cuilean says:

      I am loyal to a fault and have been known to flog dead horses. However, after last week’s SH and now the idiotic attack on the excellent Salmond Show on RT, I am throwing in the towel on the SH.

      I will keep on buying ‘The National’ though. I think we all must keep buying it.

      There is a storm coming & the Brit Nat Establishment will throw the ‘Mother of all Project Fears’ at us, again.

      To cheer myself up, I have dusted down from the shelf my old Republic’s ‘I’m Not A Royal Wedding Mug’ mug, for the next couple of weeks. Sadly, the said mug is no longer available from the’s online shop, although there are rather fine books as an antidote for the next 2 weeks of BBC Royal Wedding biased travesty we are all going to be subjected to by Nick Witchall. so far as I am aware, never been invited onto the BBC far right endorsing ‘Question Time’, unlike the odious BNP or EDL …..

      If the BBC was so impartial then next Thursday it should really have invited a Republic speaker onto its programme in the run up to the wedding so that we can examine its cost etc. e.g. the monarchy earns more in less than one hour than the average annual UK worker. All facts you’ll never hear mentioned on the BBC. Sigh

    147. Breeks says:

      Robin says:
      13 May, 2018 at 11:53 am
      How we feel about the English seems to be a touchy subject on here.

      Are we all trying to be “Politically Correct”?

      If I say to an Englishman that Scotland should become an Independent Nation and that Englishman bursts out laughing at my suggestion, then how should I feel about that Englishman?…

      How would you feel if it was a Frenchman? Or a German? Japanese? What makes the English National any different? Let them laugh if they like. Independence is not for their benefit but Scotland’s. Independence is just a tweak in our Constitution so that I can be a Scottish “National” with a Sovereign homeland just like they do. It’s a pro-Scotland initiative, and certainly not meant as a stick in the eye for England.

      In a narrower Scottish context however, I suspect I would feel the same as I feel about a Scottish Unionist bursting out laughing… I might assume I’m clearly speaking to somebody still wearing their Union Jack blinkers, who doesn’t understand what Independence for Scotland actually means.

      By far, Unionism as it stands, myred in xenophobia, sectarian bigotry, post modern Imperialsim, British Exceptionalism, propaganda, delusional fantasies, and obliged to deliver a “successful” Brexit is a much more laughable position to find yourself in than the dispassionate, objective practicality of Independence for Scotland. Scotland in Europe actually makes sense, with the EU in our corner and literally “taking care of business” while an emergent Scotland’s interests are emancipated and disentangled from 300 years of Union. If you think that’s funny, then you’re clearly not paying enough attention.

      Anybody who laughs at that is either an idiot, simply hasn’t done their homework, or most likely of all, hasn’t yet realised the degree to which their opinions have been coloured and polarised for decades by the UK Establishment’s propaganda.

      These unfortunate people face the double whammy of Scotland becoming Independent regardless of whether they find it funny or not, and then realising the extent to which they’ve been duped for decades for the BBC, UK Press, and their own perfidious Government in Westminster. Perhaps after Scotland wakes up after 300 years of slumber, maybe England will find the way to reinvent itself too. It might be bruising process, but it needs to happen.

      If you want the full honest truth, I told a little white lie in the second paragraph. I don’t feel exactly the same way as I do about a Scottish Unionist, because the Englishman who finds it all funny probably has a credible excuse for being ill informed. Unlike the English, a BritNat Scot however has layers of irrational denial to explain away too.

      I’m not saying so to be politically correct. I genuinely have no axe to grind with the English. Once Independent, and functioning properly like a sovereign Nation should function, I would hope and expect we might enjoy close and constructive cultural links with England once the abuse and disrespect for Scotland’s National status has been brought to an end. The marriage is over, but we should stay friends for the sake of the mutual prosperity and common respect. I promise you, I don’t feel any threat from Morris Dancing or cricket.

      Yes of course, post Independence I expect there will be a degree of frustration that certain issues and grievances will remain. For example we might never look towards Norway with a wry smile forever wondering what might have been. But Scotland needs to understand something profound… If we surrender ourselves to the base instincts of Sectarianism, Anglophobia, and resentment of the “former” Union, the attitude will corrupt our National psyche if we are weak and allow it to happen.

      I might make one exception to that blanket rule, and that’s the BBC. It’s not a matter or lack of forgiveness, but I’m not sure there’s a seat on the bus for a media mechanism which might seek to actively poison and undermine our Constitutional reawakening. An Indy Scotland deserves something better.

      Just like Unionism undermined the validity of the 2014 NO result, a successful YES result and progression towards a vibrant and successful Independence will be judged by the magnanimity we have for our Unionist compatriots and our capacity to draw a line under what has gone before.

      It is Unionism which is fighting the inevitable. But ultimately, resistance is futile. Scotland will be the Independent Nation it properly deserves to be. Laugh while you can.

    148. HandandShrimp says:


      I think you will find few takers for the McGlashan approach. The argument for self determination for Scotland is self evident and government from Holyrood would be for all the people Scotland regardless of where they were born. Our problem is not the opinion of people living in England (regardless of where those people were originally born and what that opinion might be) but naysayers in Scotland who lack the confidence to grasp the opportunity of Home Rule. If we convince but a few percent of those that voted No last time then we will win. This battle needs to be fought here not elsewhere.

    149. Terry says:

      I see we are getting more trolls on here. Latest one is wasting his breath. Also in our local Indy group we are getting our first trolls! It’s a sign peeps, that they’re rattled and Indy is coming.
      Ignore or delete. They’re sole intention is to derail. Won’t work – we forge ahead.

      @robert peffers.
      Robert, is there anything we can do for you? I was sad to hear you’ve been unwell again. Your posts have been an inspiration. Let us know if there’s anything any of us can do. Thinking of you. Even though I don’t know you or even whatv you look like! Take care.

      How very dare they take a pop at Alex. He’s the man! Herald has boobed big time there. Shouldn’t they have asked the Skripals? Oh, wait…

    150. Footsoldier says:

      The Sunday Herald is on a strange mission and one I think which may lead to its demise. It cannot be trying to woo Unionist readers as the Scottish Sunday newspaper market is saturated with Unionist competitors with much bigger resources. It is certainly not wooing Independence readers.

      Perhaps the owners simply do not want it any more for political reasons given there now has to be some kind of grand establishment plan to minimise the Scottish identity. The establishment received a big fright in 2014 and there is far too much co-ordination for it to be otherwise.

      I have to admit to being an avid reader of lots of newspapers local, regional and national and it is nothing short of amazing that the same unionist letter writers appear frequently in just about every newspaper I read. The Sunday Herald is very happy to publish their letters weekly.

      Editors will know of these letter writers and seem happy to print them whilst knowing it to be part of a Unionist letter writing project. What I do not know is, if there was a similar campaign from the Independence side, would the letters be published with the same frequency?

      It would be easy to find out. Simply set up an Indy letter writing campaign with all letters being recorded before being sent for publishing, then record the results. I think that’s what Scotland in Union do.

      This is one area where we could play the Unionists at their own game but it needs setting up and co-ordination.

    151. Glamaig says:

      Havent bought the SH since at least the 2016 HE and their sneaky promotion of Rise. Anyway it was too expensive and I was only reading a small part of it. Waste of paper.

      I still buy the National and I hope more people do. Its a lone voice on the newsstands. It might be slim but thats fine as I can read all the bits I want to read on my lunch break.

      My Sainsburys has stopped stocking it, but on the other hand Morrisons now seem to get more in. Downside is I have to walk past piles of Union Jack nationalist boxes of bedding plants.

      That is seriously a bit weird printing entire boxes with UJs and stacking them up. Reeks of insecurity and fear.

    152. Hamish100 says:

      robin – I hate the English?!

      Sorry “hate” eats at your insides and is self destructing. I was brought up not to hate. Still believe in the sovereignty of the people and that Westminster must be opposed.

      Do you trust Westminster power as there are many Scots there?- Gove is just one example. What about Blair and Brown – both Scots but both are Brits first.

      So please keep your hatred away from me and others and trying to mix it. You only aid the unionist cause. Cheers

    153. Fred says:

      Folks, sign above the urinals in the Lismore Bar in Partick.

      This urinal is dedicated to three men who participated in the Highland Clearances!

      These men took part in what is now recognised as a form of Central Government endorsed ethnic cleansing! Through their greed & bigotry they & others were instrumental in destroying a centuries-old Highland way of life!

      Please feel free to pay them the respect they are due!

    154. Orri says:

      It’s fairly obvious that in any political movement you get extremists who simply latch on in order to follow their own agenda.

      There are vocal arrogant loudmouth English men and woman. I might be more annoyed at them due to their venting their spleen at Scotland in particular and the world in general.

      That’s my own take on it though and after due consideration I’ll extend my own loathing to their brother’s in spirit in other nations including Scotland.

      In other words, get yourself to fuck Robin. You’re just as bad as any bigoted loyalist, republican or any other asshole who picks a fight and expects/demands those opposed to their target join them.

      We win on your terms and no doubt those deemed politically impure will be purged next. We can’t stop you supporting independence, or claiming you do, but our support in no way indicates an agreement with your bawbaggery

    155. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Louis
      Yes, great post. I personally don’t want to see the traditional media disappear, I want it to evolve and work side by side with new media like Wings. But instead of listening to people who could help it evolve and survive, it attacks us, bares its filed down teeth, insults us, tries to marginalise us, tries to classify us all as “cybernats” if we disagree or get annoyed at it, blocks those on twitter (I’m not), even defames us above and even below the line, and then totally ignores any good advice that might be in our frustrated and angered criticism, choosing only to go into a sulk and demand the SNP “do somethng about it”.

      Even a grudging apology for completely and utterly screwing up, something even unionist posters have agreed with in that thread, it seeks to make the main issue abuse from “cybernats” – WHICH IT PROVOKED by its ridiculous mistake.

      And if Neil Mackay or others are reading this, yes, it is me.

    156. Robin says:

      Breeks 1.19pm

      The French don’t claim to be our Political or Financial Masters.

      The English do, and they never let us forget it.

      It is as simple as that.

    157. Robin says:

      Hamish 100 (or Patsy for short)

      BULLSHIT !!!

    158. Macart says:

      @Ian B

      Just got back in and caught up with the subject of your post. Dear lord! 🙁

    159. Dan Huil says:

      Haven’t bought the Sunday Herald for ages – no regrets. This Leaske chiel seems to be in a massive huff that members of the public in Scotland doubt the veracity of so-called professional journalists. Arrogant Leaske and his ilk have only themselves to blame for the drop in public trust for the media in Scotland.

      Buy the National. Boycott all British nationalist media. Support pro-indy websites like WOS.

      @Donald Anderson. Just caught up with your post. Great story.

    160. louis.b.argyll says:

      colin alexander 12:51 pm

      “New level of anti-dis-ambiguity-ism there Colin A”.

      Translation please, louis. Ta.

      No need Colin, just wondering why you think Wings doesn’t campaign for Scottish independence.
      Showing how deliberate obfuscation and lies take centre-stage in UK GOVERNANCE AND MEDIA MANIPULATION is a pretty good reason for change.
      I’ve noticed a slightly more touchy feely attitude in your comments last week or so…and now you slip in that Wings is a futile conception. Dont trust you as far as I could throw you.

    161. louis.b.argyll says:

      Hamish 100, (to Robin)
      ‘So please keep your hatred away from me and others and trying to mix it. You only aid the unionist cause. Cheers’
      Spot on. There’s a big difference between political cut and thrust and real hatred of other human beings.

      If Robin’s à Patsy, your hatred is Neanderthal, it’s about civility pal.

    162. HandandShrimp says:

      Good grief! Aberdeen won at Parkhead. Now is the time for Indyref2…because anything can happen 🙂

    163. Robin says:


      ANOTHER Patsy

      It is people like you who hold Scottish Independence back

      If we don’t call out the source of our problem, then what chance have we got???

      I don’t know if you are English or not, but I would say that 99% of the English Nation think Scots are subservient to them.


    164. Robin says:

      I think instead of aiming our anger at the Sunday Herald that we should maybe aim it a bit further South than that. Like England maybe.

    165. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 12.47
      Totally agree Robert,to Hate another “peoples” is the most ridiculous position that a human can adopt.
      All very Tribal!!
      My politics is not my humanity,and how some confuse the two has always baffled me?
      Sad to think in 21st century Scotland we are still having to take care not get tarred wi that stinkin brush…

      Anyhoo,sorry to hear that your no keeping too well,I hope you get over whatever it is soon.
      Probably finding out what it actually is will be half the battle….
      And don’t forget that you’ve yer Indy family all roon ye here Robert X

    166. Colin Alexander says:


      Louis, Thank you for the acknowledgment that I have recently tried to focus on pro-independence, positive comments.

      That is what I have tried to do in the hope that we are now gearing up towards the business end of the campaign for Scottish independence.

      My above comment is my perspective on previous comments. We cannot rely solely on countering the pro-Union media to win indy.

      Wings is primarily a:” media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary”.

      My own view is that Wings is excellent at the media digest and monitoring, but often does not do much beyond that. That’s my view, maybe I’m wrong.

      I feel, it rarely sets the agenda or leads the debate on how to achieve independence. Credit is due though: The recent article which discussed the need to think about the indy timetable and indyref mandate was very praiseworthy in this regard.

      I’m not trying to detract from Wings. It can’t do everything at the same time. We can’t leave it all to them. It’s up to others in the independence movement to set the agenda and lead the campaign, instead of just reacting to the Unionist media’s mis-information.

      I feel that is now happening with the AUOB marches and the re-birth and re-invigoration of grassroots independence groups and individuals.

      So, I have things to be positive about.

    167. louis.b.argyll says:

      Fair enough Colin, you say..
      ‘My above comment is my perspective on previous comments. We cannot rely solely on countering the pro-Union media to win indy.’

      Equally, my distrust of you is based on my perception of your previous comments.


      It says it on the tin.

    168. Hamish100 says:

      robin the patsy

      Didn’y worry son your’e havin a wee hissy fit. Yir forgiven.

      It is your type of “I hate..” posts that holds independence back.

    169. Robert Louis says:

      Buy The National, and iScot magazine (which I think is still running a very splendid special offer for subscribers.

      People say, oh, but The National is owned by the same company who own the Herald (Newsquest), and that is true, but Newsquest own loads of titles all over the place, and each has its own market/point of view.

      Here’s the point though, as hard headed businessmen, news quest will notice if many more people are buying The National compared to The herald. The focus will then be The National from a business point of view. It is all about money and profit.

      Buy the national and buy iScot magazine. The full digital subscription for iScot is actually a bargain, but the print version is really on another level – simply splendid – and great for leaving around when your ‘unionist’ leaning friends come round.

    170. Grouse Beater says:

      Your essential weekend reading:

      Scotland’s constitution for the oblivious:
      An answer to Sunday Herald’s sensitivity:
      A blood bath movie for Me-Too:

    171. Michael McCabe says:

      @ Colin Alexander never heard of the wee blue book in the last indyref ya tosser

    172. louis.b.argyll says:

      then..’ don’t know if you are English or not, but I would say that 99% of the English Nation think Scots are subservient to them.’

      Now that is Bollocks. Note the capital B.

    173. yesindyref2 says:

      With a view to stopping wasting my time posting on the Herald, I looked at the Record, but can’t see any comments.

      Has the Record stopped commenting, or was it just the 2 or 3 articles I happened to look at?

    174. Hamish100 says:

      Sorry Louis B Argyll,

      Robin called me Patsy first. He is confused however
      Robin says:
      13 May, 2018 at 2:29 pm
      ANOTHER Patsy
      It is people like you who hold Scottish Independence back
      If we don’t call out the source of our problem, then what chance have we got???
      I don’t know if you are English or not, but I would say that 99% of the English Nation think Scots are subservient to them.

      “..I would say “— this is just an uninformed opinion. 99% is not 100% & Robin the Patsy’s FACT is nothing but hot air. This is a FACT at least 100%! lol

      and I am Spartacus!!

    175. yesindyref2 says:

      @ Robin says: “I think

      That’s a godamned lie.

    176. Robin says:

      Hamish and lois argyle
      Couple of English Patsies.

      As I said above, you are venting your anger at the wrong person.

      Try that bitter little Englander from south of the border who tells you on a daily basis that you wouldn’t last a minute without his hard earned taxes, ie the Barnett Cash.

    177. Robin says:

      yesindyref 2 butts in now

      Fuck of ya wanker

    178. HandandShrimp says:


      I am not sure those that tell us we are useless and wouldn’t last 5 minutes alone are really much of a problem. Generally speaking if they are genuinely convinced that this is the situation then they are happy to see us take our own path. They don’t have much of an argument against Scottish independence if that is their position.

    179. Colin Alexander says:

      Michael McCabe

      You could have said: Colin, with respect, I disagree with your comment: Wings produced The Wee Blue Book for the 2014 indyref, much of which is still be relevant in 2018. This gave lots of pro-independence factual information.

      Here is the link to the Wee Blue Book:

      Much nicer than calling people insulting names, eh?

    180. Robin says:

      Is this the Daily Mail website I am on or Wings?

      It’s getting hard to tell the difference

      Because there are more English lovvin posters on here than you would find on the Daily Mail website

    181. Another Union Dividend says:

      Calling all Wingers in Edinburgh….

      ALEX SALMOND is speaking live on the State of the Nation ….followed by a Question and Answer session ….even for Nick Robinson.

      on Thursday 17th May 2018 at 7.30 The Church Hill Theatre, Morningside Road. Organised by Morningside SNP Tickets £10 at the door.

    182. Robin says:

      I think there is a bit of the “Stockholm Syndrome” settin in here.

      You have been under English Rule for too long.

      You have lost your will to fight back.

      They call those type of people, “Patsies”

    183. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Ah the “Vile anti English Cybernat abuse” btl on WoS.

      Which us long term Wingers know is shite, but..

      As per Leasky and the rest of the Commentariat who spin fake new of such ‘vileness’ and will use any and all examples to try and have our alternative media silenced.

      I give you Robin.

    184. yesindyref2 says:

      @ Robin says: “butts

      Oooh, he used a naughty word.

    185. Northern Rock says:

      David Miliband ploughs back into UK politics with crusade against ‘hard Brexit fantasy land’

      The Labour man will share a platform with arch-Remainers Nicky Morgan and Nick Clegg in a bid to stop Brexiteers holding Britain “to ransom”

    186. Breeks says:

      Robin says:
      13 May, 2018 at 1:55 pm
      Breeks 1.19pm

      The French don’t claim to be our Political or Financial Masters.

      Westminster does, and they never let us forget it.

      It is as simple as that.

      Fixed that for you Robin. A wee tweak in emphasis and suddenly you don’t sound so grim and bleak.

      I’ve got good mates in England, some of them ex-squaddies, some professional, others I once played sports with. Most would be delighted and not the least surprised if Scotland goes for Independence. I’ve got other mates who’d prefer we stayed but respect the fact it’s our decision which we’ve pretty much been forced into. They all “get” my faith in Scottish Independence is an objective conclusion, and that none of it stems from any animosity towards England or the English people.

      We don’t need any war of words, hatred and lingering animosity towards England or the English, merely the demise of the Treaty of Union and to see the ascendency of Scottish Sovereignty over Scotland’s affairs restored. If there is an enemy, BBC not withstanding, it should properly be Westminster in our sights, and for the vast majority of Yessers and Pro-Indy supporters, I think that is well understood.

      End the Union, but let’s me smart about how we go about it and keep the process positive and constructive for all. There is a very small chance the Union can end amicably, and it’s in our best interests to play for that result.

    187. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robin –

      There’s a lot of anger around today but your clunky attempts to elicit anti-English sentiment on the back of it are a waste of time.

      If you want to see what this movement is all about, get yourself to Dumfries on June 2nd.

      In the meantime, save yer bile for the World Cup – then you can support England’s opponents and shout at the telly to your heart’s content.

    188. Robin says:

      Wings Patsies

      Standing up for the enemy.

      Good old Wings, English Luvvin Wings.

      You should get a new banner made up saying:

      “We just love English Rule”

    189. ScottieDog says:

      So we have hearaldgate, labour federalism volume 12, curtice’s claim that only Scotland can save Corbyn, and by the looks of it, attempts to load up wings with anti-English sentiment.
      I’m sure the demented bald neomcarthiest will be trawling through the forums for ammunition for his next piece in his doomed newspaper.

      Aye there’s lots happening. The ‘destruction’ of the YES movement, all the in the aftermath of a huge march.

      The establishment is troubled.

    190. Robin says:

      Breeks, you don’t get out much do you?

      EVERY Englishman I have ever met tells me that Scotland could not survive a day without their hard earned taxes.

      Wake up ya clown

      It is NOT just a Westminster problem, it is their whole Nation.

    191. Albert Herring says:


      Great Tit mair like.

    192. Robin says:

      Shock Horror !!!

      Breaking News:

      A Scot has written bad words about the English.

      This has never happened in the history of the Scottish Nation. The whole world knows that the Scots just love the English.

    193. louis.b.argyll says:

      A man who is mistaken should be pitied, not hated. End of..

    194. Robin says:

      “English Luvvin’ Wings”

    195. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Robin has just exposed himself as a not very effective troll. Nae class whatsoever and he thinks we are all just as stupid.

      On you come Robin. What are your next words of wisdom?

    196. louis.b.argyll says:

      Rock n Robin.. Tweedledeetweet?

    197. louis.b.argyll says:

      ScottieDog, yes, soon there might even be a Lordship for Curtice, so they can get him into the Tory cabinet.

    198. Robin says:

      “So lets not hear any more dissent against our beloved English Masters.”

      That will be right.

      I will fight the English until we are Free of London Rule.

      Until we have defeated our Imperial Masters.

    199. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I fear we are falling into old Scottish habits and failings – even here on Wings.

      Without the English state to fight, we are starting to fight among oursleves; the sooner Nicola signals the start of Indy2, the better, then we will have the common enemy to battle.

      Anent this Anti-English thing. I have always found our English neighbours to be individually and generally collectively OK. But, rather like the Rangers fan base – when you have spent your whole life being told you are: “Special”, “the chosen people”; when you media keeps stressing this – and telling you: “The Jocks are grasping “Subsidy Junkies”, it takes an awful lot to dissuade you of this wrongful description.

    200. jfngw says:

      Looks like since all the arguments used in 2014 for staying in the union have crumbled before their eyes, it now seems like some of the commentators have decided the attack against independence is to be ‘look at the type of people that support indy, if you are in any way a moderate, you will oppose them’.

      They have nothing left to attack independence, so it seems it’s time to get personal, it’s not going to be pretty. Get ready for manufactured propaganda, accusations that will never be substantiated. We have seen it before after the 56 seat win in 2015.

    201. Graf Midgehunter says:

      @ Robin

      “I will fight the English until we are Free of London Rule.”

      The only thing you’re fighting is to stop the diarrhea dribbling down your leg.

      Bugger off.

    202. HandandShrimp says:

      Robin you are projecting concern troll at a 100 decibels.

      No one is interested. I am sure there are other places you can take this nonsense to. Possibly back to the Daily Mail staff room from whence you came.

    203. Archbishop of Dork says:

      I’d say that Robin the troll might just be Murdo Fraser.

    204. Gary45% says:

      Bon Dias from the sunshine.
      Robin if you don’t stop the anti-English nonsense I’m telling Batman.
      My wife’s English and she is the one who keeps my drive for Indy strong.
      I can see where you are coming from but you are WAY Off the mark regarding the English.
      Open a wee malt and “chill the fuck out man”

    205. Clootie says:


      …you sound so convincing 🙂

    206. Archbishop of Dork says:

      The Britnats are going on an offensive knowing they have to make a mad gamble because their situation is desperate. There’s a feel of Ardennes December ’44 about it.

    207. frogesque says:

      Wouldn’t the Unionists just love it if they could pin the SLA or SRA tag on the Indy movement!

      Make the SNP proscribed, voice overs for Nicola ( ok, they already do that) and McCarthy type ‘ are you or have you ever Benn a member of the SNP?’

      No problem with anti Westminster tirades as long as they are factual, likewise the Unionist owned and controlled press, the BBC and STV.

      Anti English blood and soil rhetoric has no place in our peaceful movement. It harms the cause and belittles our great Nation that is open and inclusive. So much so that my Spidey senses are twitching and I smell a plant.

      Titan Aurum.

    208. ScottieDog says:

      @Northern Rock
      Often thought milliband would be back at some point. A shoe-in once the labour plp get rid of Corbyn

    209. Proud Cybernat says:

      Hey Robin – should Nicola Sturgeon hate her husband just cos he’s English? Should she hate her grandmother just cos she’s English?

      All of us here on WoS have Enlish relatives that we love dearly and will continue to love dearly long after indy.

      If you think you can elicit anti-English sentiment here on WoS you are very sadly misguided and you need to speak to your superiors for giving you the short straw. It’s no’ gonnae happen, son. Nor EVER here on WoS. Because we are a tolerant bunch here. Someone’s obviously been telling you porkies and giving you a false brief.

      Our beef is NOT witht he people of England – they’re a cracking bunch of people. A few wingnuts admittedly but we have them in Scotland too. No – Scotland’s beef is with the governance of our country; with London Rule. That is what we aim to bring to an end.

      And when we do so, we will continue loving our English family and neighbours across the borders.

      Now run along now and have a word in your boss’s ear and tell them that you’re wasting your time here trying to incite anti-Englishness, laddie. Just not going to happen.

      Run along now.

    210. wull2 says:

      Someone has had to much Sun, we are not used to it up here.

      Vote YES next time if you don’t want to be kept in the dark as much.

    211. Orri says:

      Nothing our “English Masters” like more is indiscriminate attacks on our potential allies or bystanders. Helps justify their attacks on us. If it escalates far enough it justifies removing liberties from their own people.

      Painting a picture of frothing at the mouth nationalism fits their agenda perfectly. Even if the man going off on one is genuine he’ll be used to excuse the dickheads on their side.

      A call for independence based solely on loathing of an entire people will probably backfire as neutrals question the motivation.

      If you want to mess with your head consider that Russia might have deliberately made it plausible that the Skripal poisonings were an attempt to frame them in order to discredit Westminster.

    212. Conan the Librarian says:

      Stop responding to the fucking troll!

      That is all.

    213. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Is Robin btl “Red Robin”?

    214. Maria F says:

      “Btw – why are they canvassing? Are there any election coming up?”

      The idea of another imminent GE immediately crossed my mind the minute Welsh labour “caved in” to tory demands in the power grab.

      I wondered if Welsh labour’s pathetic move was part of a bigger labour-tories collusion plot or instead the tories moving to drive a wedge in Labour, you know a good dose of the old divide and conquer, while the latter would just look the other way after being conveniently blinded by the possibility of securing a few more HoL seats.

      The tories (and labour) know the massive damage done to labour by labourites sharing a platform with the tories here in Scotland during the indyref. Yet, they did it again in the last GE. Why? Because they were working in cahoots to unseat the SNP.

      I do not expect any different reaction from the people of Wales at the prospect of seeing Welsh labour cosying up not only to the tories but to UKIP too and selling their powers. So the minute I saw Carwyn Jones announcing his stepping down and the acceptance of the power grab I wondered if this was a move to secure a few more tory MP seats in Wales in the near future to compensate for the potential loss of some of the 13 here in Scotland (perhaps going to labour as part of the deal?) or a few more in England.

      So yeah. I believe indeed that something dodgy is afoot. I believe May’s intention last year with her snap GE was not to obliterate labour but to obliterate the SNP to push that inconvenient indyref out of the table. She did not succeed in this enterprise and after that huge demonstration in Glasgow, many independence groups being activated and increasingly loud noises for another indyref I don’t have a shadow of a doubt she will attempt it again, particularly now that we are approaching the final run of Brexit and the sht may well hit the fan. But her handlers, negotiating in the shadows, have to ensure first that the tories remain in power to deliver brexit: that is when those few seats in Wales will come in handy.

      Labour has been reduced to nothing but noise in the background, smoke and mirrors. For Wales and Scotland they are just soft britnat tories hiding behind a red rosette. They deserve to be obliterated and they will only have themselves to blame.

    215. ScottieDog says:

      It is more understandable for someone who is English to vote NO due to concerns about border fences. Project fear saw to that.
      It’s far harder to understand the mind of the born and bred Scottish unionist who thinks we are too shit or can’t even be bothered to investigate the possibilities further for the sake of their kids/grandkids. Sadly the ‘I’m alright jack’ sentiment prevails.

    216. Macart says:

      Rev made an excellent point on twitter.

      “The sort of thing you can achieve if you’re not constantly being told how shit and useless you are.”

      Well said.

      I’d also add. The sort of thing you can achieve when you have the choices and the powers to hand to make it happen. Seems a bit of a no brainer really, but why do some people prefer to have an uncaring establishment and political system use their powers for them? Massively limit their ability to choose? THEN… demand their undying loyalty and gratitude for doing so?

      No. I don’t get it either.

    217. Robert Peffers says:

      @Terry says: 13 May, 2018 at 1:24 pm:

      “Robert, is there anything we can do for you? I was sad to hear you’ve been unwell again.”

      I’ve been unwell for a very long time now, Terry. The problems all stem from my late wife and I being hit head-on in our car by a drunk driver. It took from 16:50 until 21:30 to cut us out of the car. My wife spent the rest of her life in a wheelchair and I had, among other things, spinal and neck injuries.

      I then retired a little early to become her 24/7 carer. What they don’t tell you after patching you up, is that all those bone injuries are going to become arthritic and cripple you.

      The other thing they don’t tell you is that because you cannot get proper exercise you are going to deteriorate in other ways and it is a downward spiral with no way back.

      Anyway, I’ve had a good innings as I’m well into my eighties and as they say, “That’s life”, and there is nothing more natural than that death follows life and I’m not in fear of dying. I just would like to live, no matter how short a time, in an independent Scottish Nation before I go.

      I am, by nature, a very independent minded person and to date have managed to remain in my own home with only a minimum of help and a lot of ingenuity. Hopefully I’ll get over this present set-back too and I do have a step-son in the village I can call upon in emergencies.

      So please folks just get on with looking out for Scotland for I’m expendable but Scotland is not.

    218. schrodingers cat says:

      re herald saying snp should take responsability for all yes supporting tweets

      then haggerty outs girl friend of mhairi black,

      i thought doxxing was illegal, shouldnt the herald take responsabilty for its own journos actions?

      a lack of self awareness i think

      haggerty owes her status to the pert she played in indyref1 and her subsequent work.
      i will have nothing to do with any group who promotes her during indyref2

    219. osakisushi says:

      schrodingers cat says
      re herald saying snp should take responsability for all yes supporting tweets

      I suspect Captain Havoc has discovered how deep the trough is.

    220. Macart says:


      Yes. Saw that. Pretty disingenuous of them and that’s being kind.

    221. Bobp says:

      Agree with a lot of the posters on here ‘re english people. There were a lot of english accents on the Glasgow indy march. My english wife travelled with me from dorset, and in her mid 60’s walked with me from kelvingrove park to glasgow green.

    222. Maria F says:

      Robin says:
      “You have been under English Rule for too long”

      Don’t you mean “we”, Robin? Why don’t you include yourself in that assertion? Don’t you live in Scotland? If not, where are you to feel that you are not affected?

      Divide and conquer is the british nationalist tories’ modus operandi. By being so exaggerate in your attempts to divide and conquer, Robin you have blown your cover and ruined your credibility.

      I hope you don’t mind me asking:

      Over 300 years of union between the Kingdoms of Scotland and England and you guys have absolutely nothing positive to say for it? It does not sing much praise for the said union, when those who are meant to defend it cannot even find a single good reason to convince others with, don’t you agree?

      And how does it feel having to resource to scrapping the bottom of the barrel with your bare fingers to get some dirt that you can actually use as a “convincing” tool because you have nothing else?

      Doesn’t having to resource to fabricating this dirt make you question the validity of your convictions about such a cause for which you don’t seem to have any valid argument in its support?

      I am genuinely fascinated by the pro-union trolls attitude to the union. When you believe in a cause you have plenty of arguments to show for it and every day you get more. You guys however appear to have not even one and not really bothered to find any. So is keeping the union going really a cause for you or rather just a job commissioned and paid by the English ruling elite, its aristocratic satellites and its useful idiots in Scotland? Or is it that you guys are actually embarrassed by the selfishness and banality of the real “reasons” for keeping this union going?

      I would love for you to leave the English people alone and answer those serious questions instead.

    223. Macart says:

      Also? THIS>

      “A key flaw of Federalism as an alternative to Independence, is that Scotland can’t become federal, unless England, Northern Ireland, Wales and possibly regions within England itself all become Federal states at the same time.

      It is universally accepted that Scotland can vote to become an independent nation following an independence supporting majority in the Scottish Parliament, as we had first in 2014 and again in this session. However, the conclusions of a House of Lords report on the constitution – “that while independence is a matter for the people of Scotland, Federalism would have to win a UK-wide referendum” – is also universally accepted.”

      M’kay folks? We’re all clear on the elephant in the room regarding federalism?

      Good oh.

    224. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      Eventually got round to reading this one. Turns out to be the most comprehensive debunk of this federal nonsense!

      In particular it points out the extent to which Labour are ‘speaking with fork tongues’!

      ” Why do you now feel that all the powers that Unionist parties have been arguing against Scotland possessing would now somehow be better under Scottish control? “

      “…do you now accept that the Scottish Labour Party’s submission to the Smith Commission … was a grave error?”

      Truth probably is, they are trying to prepare a Vow2. They have missed the bus – the choice next time will be Brexit hard right madness versus Indy – middle way options wee killed off by Smith in 2015.

    225. galamcennalath says:



      Is it ‘great mind think alike’ or ‘fools ….. ‘ 🙂

    226. Robin says:

      Absolutely unbelievable and deluded replies to my Anti-English stance.

      You have me down as some kind of agent for the enemy, a Plant.

      FFS what a shower of paranoid halfwits.

      OK,,to test my theory, ask ANY Englishman if he thinks Scotland would be able to finance herself without any input from the English treasury.

      Remember and keep us posted with your findings.

    227. Cubby says:

      Are these British Nationalist trolls boring or what.

      Get yourself a decent job guys.

    228. Macart says:


      I’m going with ‘great minds’. 🙂

    229. Robin says:

      Here’s a good analogy of the reaction you get when you ask a few Englishmen what they really think about Scottish Independence:

    230. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana much welcomed Gordon MacIntyre Kemp’s piece Richard Leonards Federalism’s between ah hole and a hard place ,

      Looking forward to his version at a much much later date . lol

    231. Footsoldier says:

      I think any curious soft No voter will run a mile and need double convincing after visiting Wings. Not the fault of Wings I hasten to add but some of the contributions are quite simply, dire.

    232. Maria F says:

      “You have me down as some kind of agent for the enemy, a Plant”

      I totally get the thrill and glamour of feeling like Jason Bourne or Ethan Hunt behind enemy lines, but no, sorry to burst your bubble. I have you as some individual bored to tears while desperately attempts to scrap a few coins out of the generosity of Scotland’s office by testing the new ideas of Mundell’s spin doctors ahead of the inydref campaign.

      “OK,,to test my theory, ask ANY Englishman if he thinks Scotland would be able to finance herself without any input from the English treasury”

      My partner is English so I have asked him.
      His answer: are you for real? Of course it would! The question you should be asking is if England would be able to finance itself without the stream of revenues from Scotland, without corporation tax from Scotland’s activities, without Scotland’s market to sell English produce and without the security of Scotland’s assets for securing loans and investment.

      Now, as an exercise of deflection your comment sending me to do your research for you was… interesting. But now in return I want an answer to my own questions.

      Take your time.

    233. yesindyref2 says:

      The National does publish online stories on a Sunday by the way, has done for some long time. There’s about 10 in the last 4 hours.

    234. Robin says:


      I did say 99% of Englishmen.

      Do you stay in England?

      Englishmen with no attachments to Scotland will die laughing when you bring up the subject of Scottish Independence.

    235. Hamish100 says:

      Robin says:
      13 May, 2018 at 6:34 pm
      Absolutely unbelievable and deluded replies to my Anti-English stance.
      You have me down as some kind of agent for the enemy, a Plant.
      FFS what a shower of paranoid halfwits

      You may or not be a plant or even a tree. You are certainly an idiot and odious.100%

    236. Maria F says:

      @Robin says:
      Do you stay in England?

      Tut tut, Robin. No more answers from me until you answer my questions. What is the problem, dear? The spin doctor’s script does not include instructions on how to answer those questions?

      You can always improvise. I am sure Mr Mundell will appreciate the creativity.

    237. Robin says:


      What was your question?

    238. Robin says:

      Hamish the Patsy butts in AGAIN.

      If you have nothing constructive to add to my theory then please just ignore my posts.

      Hamish the Halfwit numbskull

    239. Clootie says:

      …red robin still here eh!
      A good labour unionist.

    240. James Barr Gardner says:

      Robin was a rovin’ boy,
      Rantin’, rovin’, rantin’, rovin’,
      Robin was a rovin’ boy,
      Rantin’, rovin’, Robin!

      Maistly RANTIN’!

    241. Graf Midgehunter says:

      “The Wind that shakes the Barley” on German prime-tpme TV at the moment.

      I hope we never have to go down this road.

    242. schrodingers cat says:

      scroll past
      dont feed the trolls

    243. ronnie anderson says:

      It might some day dawn on the Trolls that there are to many avid readers of Wings Over Scotland for their Tractors to get any traction .

      Hay diddle diddle anither Troll put oan the Griddle .

    244. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      When the next independence referendum comes around, the voting eligibility will, most likely, be the same as for the 2014 vote ie, if you’re registered to vote in Scotland, you are eligible – no votes for the worldwide Scots diaspora, no votes for anyone who lives in another part of the British Isles.

      A valued contribution to the Yes movement. What those who live south of us think about Scottish independence is immaterial. It’s what people who live here think that actually matters.

    245. Rock says:

      Luigi says:
      13 May, 2018 at 7:37 am

      “Virtually all the social media/IT giants (Google, Facebook, Twitter) did not just grow out of nothing, and certainly did not grow because of the brilliance of their “inventors”. No, they have all been cleverly set up in a way to maintain control of the masses.”


      Cuilean says:
      13 May, 2018 at 1:09 pm

      “I will keep on buying ‘The National’ though. I think we all must keep buying it.”

      The most gullible are the easiest targets of the powers that be.

      The National is as fake as the Labour party. It took decades before Labour was partially exposed in Scotland – 25% still vote for it.

    246. Orri says:

      Given Throbin Pseud is busy denouncing as many contributors as he can manage as English loving ("Tractor" - Ed)s to Scotland and will, no doubt in time, decry them as not true Scotsman I’d say feeding him is the last thing that’s going on.

      Unless you count feed first into a wood chipped that is.

      That said, if his aim is to give this site an image as a hotbed of English resentment or, God help us, forment it I’d like to imagine he’s getting nowhere.

      Obviously the aim might be to disrupt and move the conversation away from the topic at hand. Not sure there’s a topic to be discussed so suggesting he puts a sock in it as far as his McGlashan impression goes isn’t really going off topic.

    247. louis.b.argyll says:

      Schrodingers Cat,

      Will do..

    248. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I was wondering when Rock would re-appear with his shite on the National.

      Which other publication gives you Carolyn Leckie, Gordon McIntyre-Kemp, Wee Ginger Dug, Kevin McKenna, Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh, Patrick Harvie, Ross Greer, Pat Kane, George Kerevan, Mhairi Black, Cat Boyd, Michael Fry, Alan Riach, Greg Moodie, Hamish MacPherson, Andrew Tickell and other Nat columnists every week?

      Looking forward to Carolyn Leckie’s column in tomorrow’s issue.

    249. yesindyref2 says:

      With Hamish away, John Robin Bull is out to play.

    250. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      13 May, 2018 at 8:38 pm

      “I was wondering when Rock would re-appear with his shite on the National.”

      When will the likes of you answer the The National – the Rev. Stuart Campbell question?

      Rock says:
      13 May, 2018 at 1:27 am

      “The fake’s chief lobbyst here claims that it supports independence 100%.

      Why has it then published only one article by the Rev. Stuart Campbell till now?”

    251. galamcennalath says:

      ” France says June is ‘ultimate deadline’ for Brexit progress on Northern Ireland …. David Davis in April told a British parliamentary committee that June was an “artificial deadline””

    252. sinky says:

      This is what happens on search engines when anti Scottish self government forces control the bulk of the media.

      It really is time that all regular readers of Wings order The National at their local newsagents on a daily basis.

    253. Hamish100 says:

      Robin says:
      13 May, 2018 at 7:46 pm
      Hamish the Patsy butts in AGAIN.
      If you have nothing constructive to add to my theory then please just ignore my posts.
      Hamish the Halfwit numbskull

      I was constructive. I said you are an idiot.

      So now you have a theory, earlier it was a fact. So some progress is being made. Don’t worry we will get there. Now Let’s try the word inclusiveness.

    254. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Rock at 8.58

      I was going to respond but WHY would I?

    255. Hamish100 says:

      och weel Dave McE Hill is buying the National as well as many others.

      Rock says no. That’s me persuaded. Not.

      Is it the sun today causing havoc with some brain cell (s). We have I Hate the English theorist troll and now Rock back to don’t buy the National. Yip, he doesn’t say don’t buy the Mail or the Express or Guardian or the Times or the Hootsmon.

      Nope just the National. Am I being unfair but could he have another motive? Still he will be back on about 8pm bst tomorrow night.

    256. ScotsRenewables says:

      Robin says: 13 May, 2018 at 6:34 pm
      Absolutely unbelievable and deluded replies to my Anti-English stance.

      . . .

      OK,,to test my theory, ask ANY Englishman if he thinks Scotland would be able to finance herself without any input from the English treasury.

      I’m English you moron. Of course Scotland could finance itself. Even Alastair Darling said:

      “The question is not whether Scotland can survive as a separate state. Of course it could.

      While David Cameron (you may remember him) said:

      “”Supporters of independence will always be able to cite examples of small, independent and thriving economies across Europe such as Finland, Switzerland and Norway. It would be wrong to suggest that Scotland could not be another such successful, independent country.””

      Now awa an’ bile yer numpit heid, why doncha old bean?

    257. ScottieDog says:

      “OK,,to test my theory, ask ANY Englishman if he thinks Scotland would be able to finance herself without any input from the English treasury.”

      Ask many scots the same question and they will give you the same answer… NAW!

      And that’s simply because they (scots and English) have been dripfed popular neoclassical economics from the daily mail and the bbc. It’s not the English treasury that finances England it’s the Bank of England which generates a fiat currency called sterling on behalf of the treasury.

      When we have the bbc, mail etc talking about the fact that the U.K. govt by virtue of being a currency issuer can run up as much national debt as it likes, and can instruct the central bank to purchase that ‘debt’, then there will be no argument about Scotland being capable of running its affairs – provided its becomes a currency issuer in its own right.

      Economists on RT talk about this kind of thing frequently at the risk of being labelled putin’s followers.

    258. Orri says:

      Serious delusion going on here.

      If a theory is forth a damn then there’s nothing you can do to deconstruct it. Trying to disprove it simply tests it and a failure to do so strengthens

      We may tire of disproving the claims of our inability to fend for ourselves but we’re secure enough in our knowledge that our “theory” that we could that we don’t go off on one.

      Suppressing dissent only shows you so little faith in a theory

    259. Orri says:

      .. So little fair that you’re willing to ignore any evidence to the contrary.

      Not playing the game. Especially not when it uses the loaded phrase “English Treasury”

    260. Terry says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Yes Robert. We will do our best to take care of Scotland. We are organising, fund raising – in fact we haven’t stopped. They say people make Glasgow. Well people like you, and my mum of 78 who I remember campaigning for Winnie Ewing back in the day, plus countless others make Scotland too.

      Ps. Wings readers – don’t feed the trolls. They wish to derail the conversation and genuine discussion on here. Don’t give them the satisfaction. Nothing to be learned from them , but loads to be learned from countless others on here. And remember – knowledge is power.

    261. BJ says:

      I have just returned from my local Coop and can’t believe the amount of Sunday Heralds that are being tied up ready for return. I mentioned to one of the staff that it was surprising to see this. She said they have never had to return so many of the ones that are usually all gone by this time.

      People Power in action.

    262. Terry says:

      With reference to those unsold Sunday heralds I saw the following comment on twitter just now.

      An anagram of Sunday Herald is Sadly Unheard… which is aptly prophetic after today.

    263. TJenny says:

      I see AH is away to London to review the papers on SKY tomorrow morning. She’s even tweeted the times of all the reviews:

      7.40am, 8.40am and 9.40am on the Sky News channel. Set yer alarms. And ‘Get ready London town, Glasgow’s here’.

      I think I’ll give it a miss.

      I’d rather have WGD representing Glasgoow. Still, she’ll be happy as a wee pig in the proverbial if SKy offer her a platorm to keep talking down Scotland. Yeesh. 🙁

    264. Phronesis says:

      When the people speak they are constructing the grammar of democracy. What is the YES movement saying. An ethical Scotland, an equitable Scotland, a society built on the ideals of dignity and respect for all.

      The YES movement should be celebrated as a model of democratic transformation that revisits an ancient Athenian ideal of deliberative democracy. This was written in to the Declaration of Independence for a new country in 1776 and will be re-imagined for a new Scotland.

      “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

    265. Nana says:

      Date for your diary

      We have had enough! We are striking back against the unremitting propaganda doing down our country from the BBC. Scotland, we need to stand proud. We stand against them. Demo on 11/8/18 at BBC ,Pacific Quay. Make this massive! RT freely

    266. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 20:18,

      Not if we let 29.March next year slip by, as some in the Yes camp seem inordinately keen to do, in which case we will lose all the EU27 resident citizens.

      Throw away 100k+ potential “yes” votes, why not…? (?)

    267. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Well done Neil Mackay. The most stupidly catastrophic remarks about one’s product since Gerald Ratner.

    268. Thepnr says:

      Maria F says:
      13 May, 2018 at 6:06 pm

      Robin says:
      You have been under English Rule for too long”

      Not the first troll to make the mistake of using “You” when “We” was more appropriate if you were actually supported Independence.

      Robin was outed weeks ago and even if he was genuine we don’t need him sullying Wings. He also tells outright lies thinking he won’t be caught out.

      The bacon rolls are getting spotted more easily every time they come on Wings. That is good, means we’re learning.

      Once spotted more easily ignored. Ignore is good advice and it’s not mine.

    269. Footsoldier says:

      Out of control!

    270. Still Positive says:

      My lovely daughter-in-law voted for indy. She was 28 at the time. My son was for indy but she did her research and agreed with him.

      She did a power of work in our Yes shop with my grandson wowing everyone – a wee redhead!

      All the guys in the shop played ‘football’ with him a balloon.

    271. yesindyref2 says:

      Just looking back at that Mackay thread, the comments on it, and this from a unionist I’ve crossed swords with is very impressive (ignoring 1!):

      1. Credit to Mackay. A balanced response.

      2. It was using the “wrong” image imho, but he has explained the reasoning about broader balance etc, and editors have to make quick decisions in going to print. But it was a side issue, and detracted from the significance of the march, numbers involved, etc.

      I’ve seen a few comments from “unionists” in the past as well, the Herald gets it wrong even for our fair opponents. Talk about ivory towers, the Herald tower is pure elephant when it comes to the ways of the world.

      (I put unionists in quotes because many of them like that word as little as we like separatists or even nationalists)

    272. Still Positive says:

      Should be with a balloon.

    273. TJenny says:

      Still Positive – it’s OK. As my great Aunt used to say:
      We kent yir meaning by yir mumblings. 😉

    274. yesindyref2 says:

      Still thinking about the SH’s abysmal coverage of the Indy march, and Mackay blaming people for being upset and complaining about it, and the SNP for not sending them off on a rendition flight to Guantanamo WITHOUT CIGARS, or something, does anyone remember their coverage of the Hope Over Fear rally I went to in George Square after the Indy Ref, 12th Oct 2014?

      No, me neither, there wasn’t any.

      They went off in a huff because Sheridan’s security didn’t allow Paul Hutcheon’s photographer onto the busy stage to take a photo and talk to him so they could twist whatever he said to continue their crusade against him.

      Same old, same old but with a different excuse.

    275. yesindyref2 says:

      Anyway, off to bed said Zebedee booooing! If last night I did twice as much work in the same time as expected, today or rather yesterday or both it took twice as long, ho hum, an early snail passed me as I was “rushing” around. Here’s a great posting in that dreaded Mackay thread (name withheld as it’s a diffrent forum):

      Being here in Scotland has triggered me for the first time in 72 years to be politically engaged. I feel that this beautiful and rich country could wake up and be a strong vibrating engaging representative of what mankind on this planet can create. A creation that will be a guiding light for the rest of the nations. Under Westminster leadership it will never, ever be allowed to do that. It will always be milked by the U.K. for its people, wealth and opportunity to look after its own land. So, for the last 10 years I have done my wee bit to support this. Last week in Glasgow was my first political march after spending some 8 hours in a car getting g back and forth from Moray. And it was well worth it; never have I been in such a happy union of likeminded happy, joyous, peaceful, well-behaved throng of people. And I could only smile at the small handful of Unionist who stood there shouting and being derogatatary. So….. I was shocked next day when I read the Sunday Herald that wrote a front page story that was I felt totally misrepresented what I had experienced. YES, I do expect that from all the U.K. papers who, I sense, are deliberating digging up whatever negative they can find around Scotland. But I was shocked when I so clearly saw my beautiful experience being misrepresented. I felt of was wilfully nasty. No just a wee mis-judged piece of journalism. I will not get engaged with such energy, which is why I promptly cancelled my subscription after several years. When Norway, my homeland opted for independence some 100 years ago, some 99,9% voted with their hearts to be free from suppression from some other nation. And Norway was poorer than Ireland, yet they voted for what was right. Scotland is the wealthiest country in Europe and if it can allow itself to sober up and take responsibility for their own country, there is no doubt this land will shine. But, it does so against all the media and all the power from Westminster and the Establishment. I am sorry that Sunday Herald is now in that camp. But Scotland will become independent. Its only a question of when.

      Hope no hammers, it’s – sic – the way it was formatted there.

    276. Can`t sleep,

      am trying to work out an anagram for `Scottish Journalist`

      came up with `self obsessed dribblings`

      but realised i had left out the `J`,

      so got `self obsessed dribblings J`.

    277. Fred says:

      @ yesindyref2. I remember that the stage was fenced off in the Square, the place was jam-packed & the show was in progress, nobody got through that gate, only those appearing, chaos otherwise! A case of the huff!

    278. Fred says:

      PS, very good post tae!

    279. ronnie anderson says:

      Didn’t take long for Angela Haggerty to dis Scotland 1 in 9 Young people in Scotland suffer from mental illness , quoting a research doc conducted by Glasgow Uni ( that’ill be rite then ) SNP BAAAD

    280. Robert Louis says:

      Hey, Scottish so-called journalists, here’s my top tip for this new and somewhat exciting week ahead in the world of ‘news’ papers,

      Management 1.01 Respect is a two way street.

      (Disambiguation (for the slow witted): If you insult half your readership, don’t be surprised if they no longer respect your opinions.).

    281. ronnie anderson says:

      Please copy & share ..

      AUOB flyers/posters for the Dumfries March are being copied by Unionists to misdirect Yessers , they are advertising the Dumfries march as the ( 9th of June ) .


    282. Socrates MacSporran says:

      From the age of 11, the only job I ever wanted to do wasto be a sports writer. Being me, I took a long and winding road, but, eventually, I got to be Sports Editor of a daily newspaper.

      But office politics and the bean counters’ demands that editorial staffs be cut got in the way, so, I freelanced my way into retirement, where I still augment my small pension with some specialist writing.

      The problem with the Herald, and the Sunday Herald is – there is no longer the Scottish-generated advertising about they need to make ends meet, so, the management has repeatedly cut back on the most-costly part of their operation – the journalists.

      There has been, over the past decade, and perhaps longer, a steady outflow of experienced, talented journalists. Initially, the over-50s went, now, more and more, fortysomething journalists, who ought to be at their peak, are leaving for the cosy world of PR, or even getting out altogether.

      This means, there are now younger journalists running desks, or departments, who in the past would still have been out there, on the tools, still learning. Also, present-day journalists are having to try to compete with the instantaneous world of social media.

      Once, you went to a football match – you watched it, wrote your report and filed. OK, if you were doing a “runner” (a run of play report, written as it happens) or, if it was a midweek game, you were filing on the whistle and on deadline – that was pressure.

      Today, however, the reporters have to tweet instant reactions, then do a piece suitable for the web page, then write the report. Also, today, for some reason anything the manager or player says is SO important, it takes precedence.

      As an old Herald hand said to me last season: “Bugger getting a manager’s quote on how he thought the game went – I used to TELL the managers how the game had gone.”

      By the time the report is being read, everyone and his granny knows all about the game – maybe if the papers did more in-depth analysis, they could sell more papers.

      Leaving sport (the comic section as Ian “Dan” Archer used to call us) and going to the front of the paper, the situation is worse.

      Between social media and the immediacy of broadcasting, and the loss, over such a short time, of so much experience, it is no wonder papers like the Herald, Sunday Herald, Scotland on Sunday and Scotsman are struggling. There are good people still there, but, as I said, some key personnel in both newspaper groups have been promoted, too quickly, to too-high a level, and it is hurting them.

      Also, the overall management of the titles’ desire to court the Establishment has meant the guidance and editorial direction is wrong.

      It’s a enar-perfect storm, and it is blowing them away.

      There is hope, however. The National is perhaps the model for the continuation of newspapers – a small, hard-working core production staff, collating copy filed by freelances who know their area. It should work better than it does, but, I put that down to the inadequacies of the higher Newsquest management and the comparative inexperience of the desk managers.

    283. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ronnie ,they had better watch out as they may get two for the price of one!

    284. ScottieDog says:

      Hats off to you posting on the newspaper forums. I did it back in the lead up to indyref1 mostly in the Scotsman but I found it too toxic and it was affecting my mood big time. There were one or two level headed unionists on there who took ion board what I said but just couldn’t bring themselves to vote YES, however the majority were of the Leaskian mentality.

      I get the impression that the likes of Leask is trying to chase us away from SM, he will never succeed.

    285. gus1940 says:

      In case anybody missed it yesterday the Scotsman & Record recycle the SH’s disgraceful headline story about Eck/RT and Litvinenko’s widow.

      My pride in our wonderful unbiased dead tree press knows no bounds.

    286. Luigi says:

      I see the latest British Nationalist rick is to advertise the wrong venues and dates for the coming Indy Marches. This is desperate stuff – they are really – afraid.

      Juts something to watch out for – how they would live for a few hundred indy supporters turn up in the wrong place at the wrong time, and become completely demoralised.

      Keep an eye out, folks, for this latest example of yoon trickery.

    287. wull2 says:

      I would be grateful if anyone could tell Wingers and so called journalists what to watch out for this week re brexit . As we will not be told by our Media.

      The most impotent thing is that you vote YES this time.

    288. Macart says:


      Ta Nana. Mr Bell not pulling any punches in his writing I see.

      Enjoyed the links to the infrastructure piece and the reasons to invest in Scotland.

    289. Alba46 says:

      The Sunday Herald has completely lost the plot. For years the SH and other unionist newspapers (rags) have printed and given their own views safe in the knowledge that anyone who disagreed with them had no recourse to dispute what they said except through their edited letters page.

      Along came social media. An alternative view of the news not driven by the slanted slavish unionist idealism that permeates these published rags.

      Guess what, they are being held to account and they don’t like it. What was once their exclusive playground of distortion and misinformation is being challenged and they squirm. They are like the school bully who no longer has the power to influence and intimidate. They are loosing their power and their hold over the peasants.

      There response, the SNP need to call out these vicious cybernats and deal with them. Disown them and publicly crucify them. They don’t understand that the reason they are being called out is that fair and balanced reporting to them is a continual and relentless backing of unionism. That is their agenda, their DNA they don’t know anything different. There is no room in their eyes for an alternative view.

      Their paymasters in London call the tune and the MSM in Scotland do the dancing

    290. Dorothy Devine says:

      Obviously these poor , upset journalists have never read the plethora of bullying , vile British nationalist comments – perhaps because they aren’t directed at them and the professional journalists write only their ‘truth’ which in some cases amounts to incitement.

      Maybe somebody should send these ‘innocents’ some examples stretching back over the last five years.

    291. Nana says:

      Good morning Macart.

      I enjoyed the Peter Bell article very much, somehow doubt MacKay and his little helpers will 🙂

      A former writer at the herald has this to say

    292. Alba46 says:

      PS forgot to mention that the SH are going through their “help me Rhona” moment with their desperate plea to the SNP.

    293. Colin Alexander says:

      I had said Scotland could have a sovereign parliament and remain in Union with the rest of the UK in a CONFEDERATION as equal partners with equal parliaments. A relationship of mutual consent, based on cooperation and respect.

      That is the same terms the Scot Govt offered but for devolution powers. The UK Govt has totally rejected even that.

      The only union acceptable to Westminster is one based on political domination.

      For those who believed we were equal partners and that the Union could be made to work for Scotland’s benefit – sorry.

      It is now crystal clear the best way forward is independence for Scotland.

    294. Fred says:

      @ Nana, thanks for the excellent contribution by Peter Bell concerning the fantacists at the Sunday Herald.

    295. jfngw says:

      Looks like the main aim of certain parts of the media is to force the SNP to disassociate with this site. There was an attempt last year by a party leader, now we have a publication demanding that a party stop interacting with any site they deem unacceptable. I think I can see where this is going.

      They seem to be only demanding this of one party and one type of voter. Being a MP and a member of a sectarian organisation though is perfectly acceptable to them, makes me wonder about the make up of these publications.

      The bile that some journos tweet is of course totally acceptable , they are professionals and should be respected I think is their reasoning.

      They want to shut sites like this down prior to any referendum, presumably they think that will make a return to the glory days of higher sales. Sorry I will never buy one of these rags gain, especially with a captain at the helm.

      Remember reading newspaper propaganda is bad for your mental health, and possibly physical as they seem enamoured by any war.

    296. Bill McLean says:

      O/T sorry but just mightily amused at an article in the National about a new submarine for the ROYAL NAVY. In the spirit of better together, we are all one nation and all the rest of that bullshit they have named it “Agincourt”. A battle that England won in a war they lost! I can just imagine the matelots saying their ships name in the correct way too! Hilarious and is a pointer to the fact that our lords and masters ain’t as bright as they think they are!

    297. Macart says:

      @ Nana

      Also noted Mr Bell highlighted this piece from yesterday’s Herald: “There seems to be a hatred of journalism – of questioning, of analysis, of nuance, of open debate – at the heart of such sentiment which is truly not good for democracy.”

      I agree with Mr Bell, it’s not hatred, but it is anger and anger bordering on contempt. No journalist ever seems to ask or wonder why though. People seemingly just get grumpy at them because… BADGERS apparently.

      It doesn’t occur that people have very specific reasons to be upset with journalists and the media? I mean, having your government misrepresented, smeared and fibbed about is bad and bad enough to be sure. How and ever, when you know that same media has smeared and misrepresented you. When you know they played an active part in misrepresenting and subverting your worldview, your rights and your democracy? Just why would these same folk owe your profession any respect, any patience? Why would they support you in your hour of need?

      I agree with one thing only in the statement. Hatred of journalism is wrong. It is counter productive. I personally, don’t hate all journalists or journalism. But… I do reserve the right to hold sectors of journalism and specific journalists to account as an end user of their product. I do reserve the right to complain long and LOUD if that product misrepresents my identity, worldview and democracy. I do reserve the right to withhold my financial and moral support from those sectors and journalists and that has bog all to do with hatred and a great deal to do with a customer’s justifiably angry dissatisfaction at a shite product.

    298. Luigi says:

      Bill McLean says:

      14 May, 2018 at 9:16 am

      A battle that England won in a war they lost!

      Aye, and the scots were actually fighting on the winning (French) side. LOL.

      Don’t worry, the next Imperial warship will be named:

      HMS Bannockburn. 🙂

    299. jfngw says:

      Remember most newspapers are now to be partly funded by the UK government, in the guise of the licence fee money, but as this fee is a tax paid to the UK government to watch any live TV it is a government grant to private newspapers.

      Those who pay the piper call the tune, expect even more anti-SNP/independence rhetoric in the future.

    300. Fred says:

      Or even Bauge’! for a bit of balance!

    301. Bob Mack says:

      Hatred of journalism is very wrong, but hatred of the nuances and downright lies some of them put to paper is very acceptable.

      The events of the weekend should teach us a valuable lesson for the future. People are inevitably selfish when it comes to opportunity to advance themselves. We have seen two former stalwarts of independence Loki and Haggerty further their life opportunities ,paid for by Unionists. Loki received funding for his book from JK, and Haggerty now edits the Sunday Herald and does TV appearances.

      These are not coincidental. The Unionists have cottoned on to the fact that the best way to negate independence is to insinuate that indy would ruin opportunity and negate your lifestyle. We simply have to counteract that view.

      Two former stalwarts have been bought and paid for. There will be others.

      When Rock again asks why Rev Stu does not write for an outlet of the MSM, we have the answer. It corrupts. It makes the contributor obliged to soften their views to fit everybody ,including Unionists.

      Stay as you are Rev. We need a free spirit in our corner, and not one indebted to Unionist paymasters like Loki and Haggerty.

    302. Ken500 says:

      The Westminster imbeciles spending £Billions on Trident while sanctioning and starving people. The Tories are the only Party in the world supporting nuclear instead of renewables. There could be a GE soon. 1/2Million voters in Scotland can turned out to get rid of the Tories. They say they support Independence. Yet do not vote.

    303. ScottishPsyche says:

      Absolutely spot on Bob.

      It seems more and more that the route to dampening down a challenging voice is not to confront them but sweeten them up with awards and jobs. You are much less likely to challenge or bite the hand that feeds you.

      Also there is that old backslapping culture of the media where they all meet up the metaphorical pub after and find they do not disagree on anything of substance. You only have to listen to Radio Scotland on a Saturday or Sunday morning to find out the areas of most disagreement are about what they like on TV.

    304. winifred mccartney says:

      There was a huge pile of Sunday Heralds at my local supermarket last night I am very glad to say – this is called people power and the Sunday Herald has only compounded their blatant errors of last week by trying to justify them. Every single person at that march knows how false and untrue the picture and the caption were so if individuals can see this how come ‘experienced and and talented’ journalists could not see it or do they have another agenda? Even Unionists thought it was a disgrace and that is saying something.

    305. Bill McLean says:

      Luigi at 0923 – nice one! How about SNS Bannockburn – Scottish Naval Ship Bannockburn. And yes Fred I just remembered about Bauge – rarely mentioned, if ever, in the Emmpire’s history books.
      Feel I was a bit unkind when I wrote “our lords and masters ain’t as bright as they think they are”. Arrogance does affect logical thinking, while marching hand in hand with ignorance!

      Don’t start Robin, i’m referring to the masters of the universe, not ordinary English people who are just as brainwashed, misled and deceived as we used to be – unfortunately some of us still are. Robert in Kelty – i’m only in Newmills so if I can ever help…..

    306. Capella says:

      @ yesindyref2 3.10 – that’s a great letter about the AUOB march last Saturday, thx for posting. Good to read the comments about the Sunday Herald from Peter Bell which Nnana linked to.

      @ Ian Brotherhood – what a pity that Neil Mackay has fallen into bad company. Maybe he has been shown the torture instruments – his P45.

      I watched videos last night (WoS had become a troll fest). One was a good interview of David Harvey who lectures at CUNY on Karl Marx. Very interesting insights into the current nasty neo liberal state we are all meant to subscribe to. It’s on Youtube by Novara Media.

      The other is a talk by Yanis Varoufakis, former Greek Finance minister. He wants to democratise the EU. He was followed by a very bright young Norwegian woman who made a very good case for the Norwegian model. Unlike Varoufakis, she did not believe the EU could be made democratic. A looser federation of small sovereign states was her faoured option.

      This is the kind of debate we should be having in Scotland IMO. Instead we are buffeted about by the silly puppets in Westminster bleating on about BREXIT. Or drowned in endless whining about the “crisis” in every public institution in Scotland (without the obvious solution on offer).

      As well as marches to demonstrate our determintion, we could also do with some public debate, not moderated by the usual Establishment pets.

      2 hrs if you include the discussion at the end.

    307. Robert Louis says:

      Ronnie Anderson at 0716am,

      Regarding the indy march in Dumfries and unionists pathetically trying to make people think it is on the 9th of June, when in reality it is on the 2nd June.

      I just have to say, they NEED a website. Many, many people are not on facebook, and even if you do try to access it, your page is completely blocked out at regular intervals, asking you to ‘login or join’.

      They NEED a website. It only needs to be a single page, with all the details of marches etc…Then people can safely link to it.

      Currently details of these things are like a state secret.

      I should point out I did find a webpage, purportedly from AUOB but it is totally out of date.

      Maybe somebody has a current up to date website link? Not on facebook.

    308. ScotsRenewables says:

      Re. the need for a central website with all YES events on it – there has been a group formed that is dedicated to producing such a site. The site is well advanced and it will be available very soon.

      Watch this space.

    309. galamcennalath says:

      ” Brexit negotiating process has ground to a halt as the civil war in the British Prime Minister Theresa May’s Conservative Party rumbles on, with both wings at loggerheads over what kind of customs arrangements Britain will have with the EU …. Both solutions, in their current form, have been ruled out by the EU and Dublin.”

      So, we are expected to believe that the Tories are busy arguing over two solutions, both of which have been already rejected by the EU?

      Everything is supposed to be held up arguing over impossible scenarios?

      This is Alice in Wonderland stuff.

      And the media goes along with this pantomime!

      I just don’t believe it. They are purposely delaying. The real question should be why the stalling, and what are they waiting for?

    310. Clydebuilt says:

      Kaye Adams . . . . . Baby Boxes.

      An expert to be on after 11am to express his concerns . . . She’s looking for callers (and texters) . .

    311. Chick McGregor says:


      Scottish journalist?

      No, just shit liar Scot.

    312. Thepnr says:


      “I just don’t believe it. They are purposely delaying. The real question should be why the stalling, and what are they waiting for?”

      FWIW I think they’re stalling in order to wear down the public and especially the Leave voting public into believing that there is no solution to be found.

      This is not acceptable to the UK and that is not acceptable to the EU then we’d better let the public make that choice for us. Voila! a second EU referendum in which Remain wins by a country mile.

      Everything solved Brexit wise and Scotland back in her box.

    313. Thepnr says:

      @Chick McGregor

      Anagram No, just shit liar Scot.

      That’s a belter 10/10 🙂

    314. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Bob Mack @ 9.50am

      I suppose, when I think of it now, all these years later, my late faither, Scottish Unionist Party official, Special Constable during the war, was a “running dog of capitalism” to some; but, he always did his best for his men and was well thought-of by them, given the many, lang syne retired or moved away, who made it to his funeral.

      He actually took over his job with “The Company” in pre-NCB days, from his father, but it was a long-established tactic in the coal and iron ore industries to promote any pushy union guy into a solid “company” job.

      I have personally seen it done in a few industries, yes, even in journalism. I once worked in a News Room where the Editor was known as “Trotsky” for his left-wing views when an NUJ FOC (shop steward). Our Chief Sub was also a trade union firebrand, but known as “Stalin”, because he was a wee bit – my way or the highway.

      Both, to be fair, kept the faith to a degree when promoted, the Editor resigned rather than impose staff cuts, but, a lot of other guys, bought-out to silence them, take the EStablishment shilling and turn into hammers of the working class, or, in the cases you highlight, hammers of the Independence seekers.

      Human nature in play.

    315. jfngw says:

      Some journos claim to have been pro-indy in 2014, but an opportunity is evolving that may allow more exposure on the UK wide media. Now they are not so sure.

      I’m not sure how if you claim to want an independent country you can suddenly swing back the other way, once you have made that jump it’s unlikely you would turn back. Unless it was always just a career decision.

    316. Breeks says:

      Macart says:
      14 May, 2018 at 9:22 am
      @ Nana

      Also noted Mr Bell highlighted this piece from yesterday’s Herald: “There seems to be a hatred of journalism – of questioning, of analysis, of nuance, of open debate – at the heart of such sentiment which is truly not good for democracy.”

      I agree with Mr Bell, it’s not hatred, but it is anger and anger bordering on contempt. No journalist ever seems to ask or wonder why though. People seemingly just get grumpy at them because…

      Maybe if they stuck to objective journalism rather than manipulative propaganda then people wouldn’t be so angry. It’s a wee matter of integrity, integrity which the mainstream media squandered very cheaply back in 2014.

      In fairness to journalists however, you will find the same widespread personal cowardice and herd mentality in certain other sectors, especially local government departments, where people have neither the courage nor integrity to stand up for what is right. They routinely turn a blind eye and deaf ear to corruption, but then wonder why they are held in such common contempt. Wusnae me, so it’s all ok. Well, no actually. It isn’t ok.

      Sometimes it takes the self sacrifice of a whistleblower to make all the difference, but the so called News media in Scotland is so crass and transparent in its intentions that a whistleblower is unlikely to tell us anything we haven’t already worked out for ourselves.

      Scotland does need journalism, and good journalism at that. So rather than downgrade the profession, let’s just stop calling the current shower of BritNat propagandists actual journalists, and preserve / reserve the integrity of the title for the very few who properly deserve it.

      There has to be a distinction drawn between journalism, and the propaganda which is currently being passed off as journalism in the Scottish media, by the Scottish media.

    317. galamcennalath says:

      Thepnr says:

      we’d better let the public make that choice for us

      That would be one way out for them. I have always wondered how business feels about Brexit. Not the spivs who think they can make a fast buck, but real commercial organisations. The CBI has always pushed to avoid anything hard. And since when did the Tories ignore big business?

      Having said that, there is the other scenario. They really are smitten by rabid nationalism and rightwingery and want an excuse to crash out and achieve the far right’s dream of being totally disconnected from the EU.

      Scotland back in her box

      I believe this must rank highest in Tory minds. No Tory wants to be the catalyst for the end of the UK! They know a hard Brexit will necessitate ScotRef and they know they could lose.

      But there’s different ways they could handle Scotland.

      They could, as you say, make sure the whole Brexit fiasco is cancelled. Or very soft.

      They could prevaricate until close to Holyrood2021 in the hope of getting a BritNat coalition in power.

      Or, they could play a ‘state of emergency’ card and refuse to allow ScotRef and then fight any YES outcome through the courts. I could foresee this approach with a mad bad hard right Brexit.

    318. K1 says:

      The biggest march ‘recorded’ in Scotland’s history took place on the 5th May 2018. The Sunday Herald did not ‘record’ the ‘facts’ of that march accurately, not just the sheer size of it but the peaceful, family oriented and general sense of what can only be described as ‘happiness’ that permeated the mood of the march itself.

      In fact they chose to, with just one photograph portray that march as ‘marred’ by conflict. That picture and the caption that underscored it are in fact a compete lie.

      I have no doubt that thousands who purchased and saw that picture on the Sunday Herald’s front page on the 6th May, were dismayed and deeply disappointed that this prominent Sunday newspaper chose to manufacture an account of the march that was utterly inaccurate.

      A picture paints a thousand words. And that is the meaning that that front page picture was meant to convey. It was a deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.

      Subsequently hundreds if not thousands have rightfully complained to the Sunday Herald about this. The Sunday Herald to use the phrase that describes it best, has now ‘doubled down’ in response and defended it’s front cover from the 6th May.

      The Sunday Herald has chosen to hit back at its readers by pretending that their reactions to the front page on the 6th May are unjustified because people shouldn’t get so angry or upset to the point of actually telling the Sunday Herald that they are indeed angry and upset about the lie of that picture and interpretation of the march on the 5th May. Even if their readers were there at the march and know exactly how it went, the Sunday Herald has now chosen to attack its readers and have used this as a further platform to attack the SNP, suggesting that the SNP should somehow control people who attended a march that was AUOB and not a march that was organised by the SNP.

      The Sunday Herald need no longer concern itself with its former readers who were upset and dismayed and outspoken about this utter fabrication and subsequent fall out from the Sunday Herald’s lies. The Sunday Herald has literally lost half if not more of it’s readership in one fell swoop because the Sunday Herald wanted that to happen.

      It is not possible to consider this otherwise. This was not a mistake ‘they made’ on the 6th May, the Sunday Herald have confirmed this. They have no need to apologise to anyone because it was clearly a deliberate choice to interpret the march and choose ‘that’ picture to convey a lie and want that lie to stick.

      The fact that they chose to display their change of political stance wrt to supporting independence and used the biggest recorded march in Scotland’s history choosing to portray it in any way divisive from those supporting Scotland’s independence, instead of correctly reporting the facts wrt to the little gathering of haters, is the clearest possible way that they could have chosen to say ‘we no longer support Scotland’s independence’.

      I will not be reading the SH or the H. Never bought the rag/s in recent years anyway, as I believe many of us had already seen this coming before 6th May’s rotten front page.

      How utterly shameful of them to piss all over our march in this way. And use it to their own ends. Now, that was ‘divisive’. And this is what the real issue is, like with trolls we need to stop biting…and leave them to it. They have shown that they will use that to generate false headlines too.

      if you weren’t sure about what the Herlad /Sunday Herald were up to, you should have no doubt now.

      If Liverpool can do it, we can too.

    319. Dr Jim says:

      The Spock “Journalist”

      “Journalists” and the political media claim to be the only people on the face of planet earth who have no personal preferences or opinions about what they write then claim that what they write ergo must be fact

      If indeed they claim to be these Spock like referees of politics why do they get so angry when their facts are disproved and discredited and refuse to apologise or retract on pain of death as to their Solomon like positions

      So from their high impersonal planet Vulcan media as they look down on us total and imperfect humans, do our Vulcan “Journalistic” overseers of truth believe they are superior to we lesser mortals or is it we just don’t understand like they do because of their natural ability to be perfect because they were born different to the rest of us

      Or could it be they’re just a bunch of up their own Arses liars who hate being found out

    320. Capella says:

      @ Nana – good point made by John Nicolson. But scrolling down to his comments on John Pilger, he refers to RT as the Kremlin’s propaganda channel, without referring to the BBC as Westminter’s propaganda channel.

      We have a government and broadcasting services. States we don’t like have regimes and propaganda channels.

      If the BBC offered air time to Alex Salmond, John Pilger and Chris Hedges (to take just 3 examples) then I would change my opinion. But I’m not expecting to have to do that this side of independence.

    321. jfngw says:

      I see someone has tweeted Morrison’s asking if they are getting paid to put Union Flags on their products. I would expect not as this ‘end of division and one nation’ was signalled by Theresa May last year, and as lots of these captains of industry are also Tory donors they they dutifully fell into line.

      The BBC were at the front line of this with their ‘ONEness’ propaganda between programmes, followed by their ‘Together’ Christmas theme. They know how to exploit subliminal messages.

    322. Cubby says:

      The so called journalists who work for the MSM in Scotland are nothing more than paid to hire propaganda writers. They should receive no professional respect from anyone and they should receive no personal respect from anyone as they have no personal integrity. They write lies and deliberate deceit for their British Nationalist masters. British Nationalists lie and they always lie.

      They all, like Torrance, hope to get a move to London where their masters will give them plenty of dog biscuits.

      WHY PAY FOR PROPAGANDA AND LIES? Stop buying the newspaper rags.

    323. Nana says:

      @Capella, well spotted. I didn’t scroll down and I’m quite astonished by his comment re RT. Indeed had he qualified it and called out the bbc then ok. How very odd of him not to, surely he is not blind to the very obvious anti snp anti independence bbc bias.

      I seem to recall he had some very pointed questions for the BBC when he sat on the committee looking into BBC Scotland. I think he had quite a few put downs for the answers given as well. I would have to find it and watch again just to be sure.

    324. Proud Cybernat says:

      We need a massive turnout in Dumfries on 2nd June. As the Rev points out on his Twitter, this isn’t about converting NO voters to YES voters. It is about ‘Normalising’ independence. And that is why the BritNat MSM in Scotland try to taint and tarnish our marches, to give the opposite impression.

      But their attempt is futile because how on earth can they possibly try and convince rational thinking people that being independent and running your own affairs isn’t what normal countries do and that ‘dependence’ is better?

      The MSM are losing and losing badly. Indy support continues to rise while the readership of these ‘newspapers’ is in freefall. No wonder they are lashing out at us. The final desperate howls of a mortally wounded animal.

      We’re winning peeps, we’re winning!

    325. Capella says:

      @ Nana – Perhaps the SNP are party to information not shared with the rest of us. But unless they make that clear anti RT statements sound like toeing the Westminster line. Surely Alex Salmond knows the status of RT.

    326. jfngw says:


      Surely it makes no difference to us now whether Brexit is rejected or not. With the UKGov running roughshod over the wishes of the Scots and their total undermining of the devolution settlement, supported by the vast majority of Scots, we can never again believe the spurious claim that it is a union of equals.

      No matter what happens I want another referendum, if Brexit is cancelled this may require waiting for a new mandate but then so be it.

    327. Fred says:

      @ Bill McLean, lest we forget!

      On another matter, not difficult for enemies of Wings to claim the site is anti-English when we have one arsetroll whose posts do just that!

    328. ronnie anderson says:

      Robert Louis Ok messaged received & passed up the ladder

    329. ronnie anderson says:

      Robert Louis Thanks Robert there is a web page but needs updated so hopefully Neil Mackay ( no that SH wan ) will get Andrew & Bill to get it up & running soonest .

    330. wull2 says:

      Time is running out Big Business, come Independence it will be past midnight and to late,

    331. Thepnr says:


      Surely it makes no difference to us now whether Brexit is rejected or not.

      Yes I agree, I couldn’t care less what the UK government think but I’m certain that if there were to be No Brexit or a very soft Brexit then “they” will believe that this is enough to quell any support for a second Independence referendum.

      So telling Scotland to get back in their box doesn’t mean we actually have to listen. Like you I’ll be ignoring anything Westminster thinks it can dictate to the Scottish people and we will have a second referendum when we want one and has to be before the next Holyrood elections.

    332. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      The SH editor doesn’t seem to be the only one who is getting public sentiment badly wrong. Another very timely riposte by Peter Bell:

    333. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 1.43
      Totally agree.. The Brexit “Vote” may have been the Cause of Indy ref 2 but it’s not the Reason for it.

      The Reason is the Democratic Deficit,always has been.
      The nonsense around Brexit and the attempted Power Grab,is not changed by the English electorate changing their mind’s.
      Infact,that they even get the chance to change it, when Scotland cannot, highlights even more the Union’s deficiencies!
      We must set aside the Treaty of the Union,and bring our Government home.

    334. Cactus says:

      @ronnie anderson, aweright, could ye suggest this too plz…

      Hey AUOB, ah was checking out yer website page and here’s an idea for your consideration.

      Have your landing page as a static page, with just the main photograph image, your banner, the NEXT venue, date, time, the all important countdown clock (in days) and mibbies a clicker counter too.

      Then ye click through to the main website for videos/pics etc:

      A front cover wrapping like.

      Kind regards.

    335. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Liz g @ 14:40,

      Brexit may not be the cause of IR2, but it’s the most prominent example by far of how we have to suffer an enduring democratic deficit.

      If the legion of petty misdemeanours represent a general fraying of the Union flag that many Scots apparently find all too easy to ignore, the Brexit vote gap represents a giant tear that threatens to rip the whole damn thing apart.

      Putting some kind of sticking plaster over the rip now wouldn’t erase the damage done, and everyone knows that what happened once can very easily happen again over something else. We just aren’t safe remaining within the Union.

      But still, I can’t feel that the most has not been made of this, the most serious political crisis for the UK since Suez, because of not actively promoting a clear way forward for a very confused and somewhat conflicted public-at-large. Too much hoping that time alone will do the talking.

    336. Liz g says:

      Robert J Sutherland @ 3.28
      I don’t get either, why more don’t see what’s happening, even if they didn’t think of it when it could only “potentially “ happen.
      Why when the democratic outrage to Scotland that is Brexit is actually going on and is headline news almost every day , more don’t seem to notice?
      Hopefully when the campaign is up and running officially they will wake up….
      In the meantime we just need to keep on sayin it!

    337. Cactus says:

      ~ Welcome to All Under One Banner ~

      Next march:

      2nd June 2018.
      High noon.

      19 days remaining to go.

      ~ Click here to learn more, Scotland ~

    338. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, I’m turning my back on the SH / H, show my disapproval the best way – abstinence. The H is different, but it ran a story this morning about the SNP condemning abuse on social media as though to support its Sunday rubbish story, but it seemed to me it’s just the SNP’s usual generic condemnation whenever it’s in the news – not an endorsement of Mackay’s smug self-satisfied nonsense.

      How WIll they do without me? 😎

      What they really need is some sort of media tele-conference on slipping standards, ethics, truth and the place of journalism in that lot. But hey, might as well expect them to give me tomorrow’s winning lottery numbers in advance.

    339. Rock says:

      Bob Mack says:
      14 May, 2018 at 9:50 am

      “When Rock again asks why Rev Stu does not write for an outlet of the MSM, we have the answer. It corrupts. It makes the contributor obliged to soften their views to fit everybody ,including Unionists.”

      First, you know perfectly well that I am referring to the fake “independence supporting” The National. The rest are openly unionist as everyone knows.

      Second, yes, it does corrupt and the contributors to the fake “independence supporting” The National have indeed softened their views – they can barely mention the “i” word in public.

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      13 May, 2018 at 8:38 pm

      “Which other publication gives you Carolyn Leckie, Gordon McIntyre-Kemp, Wee Ginger Dug, Kevin McKenna, Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh, Patrick Harvie, Ross Greer, Pat Kane, George Kerevan, Mhairi Black, Cat Boyd, Michael Fry, Alan Riach, Greg Moodie, Hamish MacPherson, Andrew Tickell and other Nat columnists every week?”

    340. louis.b.argyll says:

      ‘OK,,to test my theory, ask ANY Englishman if he thinks Scotland would be able to finance herself without any input from the English treasury.’

      Why would you seek the opinion of the mis-informed.

    341. Thepnr says:

      Sneaks in when it’s dark. Does one on your carpet. Sneaks out.

    342. louis.b.argyll says:

      Even if Brexit is derailed, it won’t be long until they find something equally stupid.

      We can’t let them take us to the brink again.

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