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Wings Over Scotland

The missing monkeys

Posted on March 14, 2015 by

Alert readers will have noticed that this week we’ve been fascinated by the differences between the mostly-identical Scottish and English editions of The Sun. For example, the editorial below from today’s English edition doesn’t make it across the border.


But that’s not the most interesting discrepancy.


Above is a bit of today’s page 2 in the English (left) and Scottish (right) editions of the paper. (The English one is billed as page 4 because for some reason the digital edition of the English version always starts with a two-page inside spread advertising the new Sun app for tablets, but the Scottish one doesn’t.)

Both versions cover the same two Scottish stories – Alan Johnson telling Ed Miliband to rule out a deal with the SNP and the bizarre Jim Murphy glue-sniffing revelations of yesterday – but the English edition gives a lot more space to the former. The Scottish edit ends after the third paragraph, which means that only English readers get to read this startling passage:

“Polls suggest the SNP could win more than 50 seats, leaving Labour with a handful. One Labour source The Sun: ‘If those Scottish monkeys had done their jobs, we wouldn’t be in this mess.'”

It’s a fascinating insight. Two different polls yesterday – a YouGov one and one on the UK Labour website LabourList – both suggested that the party’s supporters DON’T want to rule out a deal with the Nats.



But hostility to an arrangement with the SNP is far stronger in Scotland, with 41% of those still planning to vote for Scottish Labour in May wanting a deal ruled out, compared to just 15% of Labour supporters in the UK. Hatred of the Nats still runs deep in Labour in Scotland, while the rest of the country appears to see a left-of-centre party which could be worked with constructively.

Just like in the referendum, it appears that Scottish Labour’s payroll – MPs and party workers – is far more concerned with clinging to its own lucrative jobs than it is with the wellbeing of Scotland or even the party. The blind tribal loathing that drove the Scottish branch office to incompetence and successive defeats at Holyrood now threatens to derail Ed Miliband’s bid to be Prime Minister.


They’re clearly not too popular with their colleagues south of the border. We suppose we should applaud the Scottish Sun’s sensitivity in taking pity on their feelings.

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  1. 14 03 15 12:26

    The missing monkeys | Politics Scotland | Scoo...

  2. 14 03 15 20:55

    Comment Isn't Free | More Monkey Business

161 to “The missing monkeys”

  1. Chic Thomson says:

    That 41% will be 41% of an ever dwindling band. Pity the poor poll researchers who have to find a representative sample including those who intend to vote labour. They must be getting ever harder to find!

  2. Dave the Squirrel says:

    Are people forgetting that David Cameron admitted to blazing a few in his youth shortly after the Tories got into power?

    Sorry, here’s me, a Scot, having the audacity to do stuff with my memory and other parts of my brain too. Better watch I don’t get a headache, although I was shit-faced on Drambuie last night and that might have something to do with it.

    I actually really was though xD

  3. Fiona says:

    Be fair, Rev. I find it quite heart-warming that Scottish labour are so principled. They would rather lose their jobs than compromise. Surely we have to respect that….

  4. RedStarTrout says:

    That Chimp could never be a Labour candidate.

    It’s never told a lie in its life.

  5. Joemcg says:

    Scottish rats? scottish monkeys? Is the love bombing over?

  6. handclapping says:

    Bravo Fiona, I’ve finally twigged it! Murphy’s extra 1000 nurses are those defenestrated by a SNP landslide nursing their wrath to keep it warm. You know it makes sense 🙂

  7. Pedantic Biologist says:

    Use a monkey instead of an ape. Tsk. Tsk. (*rolls eyes*).

  8. jimnarlene says:

    To all unionists, it’s called democracy; get over it.

  9. Brian Powell says:

    What interest me is what did London Labour see the job of the ‘Scottish monkeys’ as being? After all they were instructing their Scottish branch.

  10. C’mon Stu, zoological accuracy should be a feature of the new Scotland.

    That’s a chimpanzee sporting the rosette. Chimpanzees are apes, not monkeys.

    We humans are more closely related to apes than to monkeys. The choice of a chimpanzee for the image is unfortunate as it links Scottish Labour more closely to the human race then their English colleague rates them.

  11. Democracy Reborn says:

    Does that make us a Banana Republic?

  12. Holebender says:

    Do I need to point out that chimpanzees are apes, not monkeys? No self-respecting chimp would be seen dead in a Labour rosette.

  13. Shagpile says:

    He can not remember if he sniffed glue (OR other solvents)? You must ask the correct question 😉 Is it the reason why he spent 9 years at Uni and graduated with a condemnation in a Westminster motion?

    Nowt wrong with being T-total, yet some “are on the wagon”, I am not implying anything other than I do not trust Mr Murphy as far as I could throw him.

  14. Chitterinlicht says:


    Dinosaurs vs monkeys


    Who would have thought it?

    Love to know what that labour source is.

  15. Paula Rose says:

    Wee correction –

    “If those Scottish monkeys had done their jobbies, we would still be in this mess.”

  16. Croompenstein says:

    They can’t help themselves with their shitty headlines ‘Scot to Stop’ I mean FFS GTF Sun..

    Nice photo of the Chairchoob though..

  17. Chic McGregor says:

    That presumes that Scottish Labour were aware that they would reap what they were sowing.

    I don’t think they did.

    Even yet, as they hurtle lemming-like towards the cliff edge, I still think many of them believe all past transgressions will be forgiven at the last instant and their erstwhile supporters will return to the fold.

    Pity, yes, admiration, no.

  18. heedtracker says:

    Its probably all about party internecine wars too. Look at Murphy’s career of teamGB greatness ended permanently with Milliband sacking him as Defence minister. Now the berk’s up in Scotland making it even worse in the region SLab obviously thought they owned forever. Then Murphy’s flanked by walking disasters like Bliar MacDougal and blue tory boy Macternan.

    If it wasn’t for all the shills in the BBC, Record, Daily Heil, you couldn’t invented a more absurd A team of losers.

  19. Chic McGregor says:

    “They can’t help themselves with their shitty headlines ‘Scot to Stop’ I mean FFS GTF Sun..”


  20. Robert Bryce says:

    To paraphrase a Malcolm X quote.

    You can’t hate the SNP without hating the people that vote for them. Scottish Labour clearly have a loathing for the majority of Scots.

    That is why they are where they are today. If they can’t mend their ways and work constructively with the democratic will of the rest of society in Scotland then they shall continue to their eventual demise.

    It really is that simple.

  21. Somewhat related is that Cameron has just unveiled a statue of a ‘bloody separatist’ in London.

    Prime Minister David Cameron said the sculpture is a “magnificent tribute” to one of the “most towering figures” in history.

    After all the lies and scare stories they have pumped out over the last few years they go and do this.

  22. Clarinda says:

    With these newsprint differences – it’s a real shame we don’t have something like an internet or computerised social media thingy so that news editors couldn’t keep their bias secret? They must be doing it deliberately.

  23. scott says:

    Rev,sorry O/T but thought it worth noting.
    Republic of Ireland=4.595 million (2013)I noticed that the growth was 4% much more than UK but they are a small country so if they can do it so could we but then are we not all BT,I wonder if Slab MSPs will be ready to mention this as they were ready to rubbish the Celtic Tiger when they were in trouble.
    My goodness the SNP have really got under the skin of the establishment what will they do next to bad mouth us,BBC will be going into overdrive.

  24. John Fowler says:

    Hi Nicola, you are correct principles should be respected, however its principles of hatred not policy they are clinging too. If it was them clinging onto Socialist like policies I would have respect. Unfortunately they are not doing that, the are lying, claiming SNP policies as their own, and wanting to hurt everyone if they can hurt the SNP at the same time. These are not the actions of adults with principles, but petulant children in need of some discipline and education.

  25. Croompenstein says:

    I wonder if oor Duncan knows who the source was that called the Scottish MP’s monkeys?

    cmon Dunc spill the beans….

  26. galamcennalth says:

    Interestingly different views of SLab.

    From down south, they seem to perceive SLab as having enough freedom to make a mess.

    From up here, we perceive SLab as under the thumb of London with little scope to act independently.

    Given that the London Bubble really don’t understand Scotland at all, I think they have got it wrong. SLab are in a mess (in part) because they weren’t allowed by London HQ to evolve to match the changing political landscape in Scotland.

    70% of Scots lie on a spectrum from DevoMax to Independence. This leave little room for London centric parties. Unionists who wanted to survive had two choices – go for the BritNat hard core as the Tories have, or embrace DevoMax within the Union. SLab are making themselves irrelevant.

  27. Fiona says:

    Fiona says:

    Be fair, Rev. I find it quite heart-warming that Scottish labour are so principled. They would rather lose their jobs than compromise. Surely we have to respect that….

    I have had to reconsider that post. It should read:

    “Be fair, Rev. I find it quite heart-warming that Scottish labour are so principled. They would rather lose other people’s jobs than compromise. Surely we have to respect that….”

    If the polls are correct Scottish Labour MP’s will lose their jobs no matter what they do: but according to Mr Murphy his colleagues in Westminster will also lose their jobs if there is no compromise

    All our politicians have this admirable feature: they have to show they can take the “tough decisions”: which always means hurting other people for some self serving greater goal (or for no reason at all). They bear other people’s misfortunes with admirable stoicism: and I am impressed that it makes no difference when those people are their fellow party members and colleagues

  28. Fiona says:

    Oops: the formatting in that last post is wrong and makes it confusing. My apologies

  29. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Shagpile says:
    14 March, 2015 at 12:10 pm

    “He can not remember if he sniffed glue (OR other solvents)? You must ask the correct question 😉 Is it the reason why he spent 9 years at Uni and graduated with a condemnation in a Westminster motion?”

    Better than that Shaggie, he would have had no Scottish Highers when he washed up in Scotland and so, would have had to go to a FE College. I am pretty sure he didn’t go to Anniesland and thus that would leave Cardonald, Clydebank, and maybe Langside, if it was in existence.

    So, he would have been grant funded there for that.

    Taking the time out with the NUS, he would have been salaried for that, leaves a wheen of years of grants and no ferking degree at the end,

    Best of all, he doesn’t have to repay anything, no graduate tax, loans etc . Yest he rammed Labour’s austerity University programme through the NUS and received that personal motion from the H of C.

    Somebody has been paying and running that bastard?

  30. Patrick Roden says:


    Well it looks like we have a name for who wrote ‘The Vow’

    Step forward Murray Foote, from the Daily Record.

  31. Cath says:

    “Be fair, Rev. I find it quite heart-warming that Scottish labour are so principled. They would rather lose their jobs than compromise. Surely we have to respect that….”

    I see you’ve adjusted it, but I was just about to point out that, sadly, they’re not as principled as you imagine. Their thinking is that if Labour doesn’t rule out working with the SNP, left wing voters in Scotland will have no problem voting SNP, hence voting them out of jobs they don’t deserve to have. If, however Labour rule it out, they can then take a hard line with former voters telling them they have to vote Labour or the Tories will get in.

    Trouble with that whole attitude is that if Labour DO rule out working with the SNP, and especially if they refused to talk to them AFTER they’d won most of the seats in Scotland that would be the end of Labour in Scotland, and also pretty much the end of their pretence of being left wing down south as well.

    So basically, in order to throw a dice that may save their jobs, they’re willing to sacrifice both a Labour victory and the party’s future longer term in the entire UK. Principled? My ****

  32. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Do I need to point out that chimpanzees are apes, not monkeys?”



  33. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Oops: the formatting in that last post is wrong and makes it confusing. My apologies”

    I don’t know why I even BOTHERED installing that preview pane…

    (Fixed it for you.)

  34. panda paws says:

    Examples of monkeys (and not apes) are capuchins, howlers (particularly apposite when discussing SLAB) and macaques (aka ugly monkeys – I’m not going there!).

    Joking aside, wtf. Bad enough calling your enemies “monkeys” and given its also used as a racial epiphet simply not acceptable. They are calling their party colleagues monkeys. Are Scottish people really that hated? Even the unionists?

  35. Fiona says:

    @ Cath

    Er….I was not entirely serious, you know 😉

  36. DerekM says:

    speaking to the rep for “we are apes not monkeys”organisation he told us they are extremely angry at being portrait as SLAB MSP`s.

    A spokeschimp said ohh ahh ehh ohh ahh grrrrr (translated as you must be joking even we wouldnt support these reprobates)

    After flinging some poop at us and laughing they claim the above picture is photoshopped ,they also say the above member cant vote as it would seem he has been removed from the EC register and cant prove where he lives even though he has lived at the zoo for 10 years.

    hehe on a serious note this just stinks and Alan Johnston is a fud,we dont want to deprive you of your nuke bombs we just want them out of Scotland which part of that dont you understand Mr fud,if you idiots want to have nuke bombs thats up to you or are you scared that maybe the good people of England might not like having them on their doorstep hmmmm.

  37. Fiona says:

    Thanks for fixing it, Rev Stu. Once again, sorry for my error

  38. TYRAN says:

    “for some reason the digital edition of the English version always starts with a two-page inside spread advertising the new Sun app for tablets, but the Scottish one doesn’t.”

    ^ Can only assume no one is reading the Scottish one, so no one is paying for advertising as a result.

  39. gorbalito says:

    Although it does seem we are being ruled by a subhuman species.
    Just look at their treatment of our most vulnerable, especially child poverty, which will increase to 100,000 when the lab/tory 30 billion cuts kick in.
    For god’s sake be human and vote SNP!

  40. Krackerman says:

    Hmmmmmm did they mean the Scottish Labour MP’s are monkeys or that they are monkeys because they are also Scottish??

    I think we need to know which…

  41. Camy says:

    A pedant writes:
    1)Your quote has gone wonk – “One Labour source The Sun” should read “A Party source”
    2) You illustrate an article on Monkeys using a picture of an Ape!

  42. Fiona says:

    @ paul mccormack

    Maybe. But do you believe this statement from Mr Cochrane? Why would he be right on this and wrong on so much else?

  43. Nana Smith says:


    I’ve noticed the demonization of Russia & Putin seems to be ramping up.

    Reminds me of Iraq

  44. Proud Cybernat says:

    That chimp does look a wee tad sad. Either it knows what’s coming in May or… there’s a big tube of UHU glue just outside the bars of its cage, just out of reach. 🙁

  45. muttley79 says:

    @Rev Stu

    But hostility to an arrangement with the SNP is far stronger in Scotland, with 41% of those still planning to vote for Scottish Labour in May wanting a deal ruled out, compared to just 15% of Labour supporters in the UK. Hatred of the Nats still runs deep in Labour in Scotland, while the rest of the country appears to see a left-of-centre party which could be worked with constructively.

    Which is presumably why Nicola Sturgeon is regularly down in London making speeches. I read she is delivering another one to the LSE on Monday. Bypassing the SLAB monkey(s), and getting the message across directly to the organ grinder.

  46. Joemcg says:

    Just curious, if we are equal in this union and not getting shafted after 300 years why is our capital Edinburgh like a toy town compared to London?

  47. Meindevon says:

    Rev, sorry slightly OT but have you seen the editorial in the Times by Matthew Parris? ‘Angry Scots can take the high road’. What a rant!

    In my defence it was read by compliment of a service station. Although after reading it I didn’t feel very complimented!

  48. Capella says:

    @ Nana
    I agree. Max Keiser has two recent reports on war as racket, 729 and 731.

    One way of neutralising the democratic process is to launch a war on a country which represents a threat, and if it also is brimming over with oil and gas – so much the better!

  49. Sinky says:

    From Scot goes POP on latest YouGov polls:

    An enormous 88% of these “Labour-Yes switchers” think that Ed Miliband should leave open the possibility of a post-election deal with the SNP. So perhaps he ought to be cautious about listening to the siren voices in the London commentariat who would have him believe that he can somehow regain popularity in Scotland by doing the complete opposite.

    I mentioned Jim Murphy’s dismal leadership ratings last night, but the true humiliation for him is that slightly more people (29%) think David Cameron is doing well as Prime Minister than think Murphy is doing well as Scottish Labour leader (26%). Admittedly, Murphy’s net disapproval rating isn’t quite as bad as Cameron’s, because there are more people who think that Cameron is performing poorly.

    There’s an old saying that “divided parties don’t win elections”, and that’s where this poll has truly devastating news for Labour. 59% of voters think Labour is divided, compared to just 10% who say the same about the SNP.

    If the unionist parties are hoping that they can turn things around in the formal campaign period, they’ll be dismayed to learn that a formidable 69% of people planning to vote SNP say there is “no chance at all” that they will change their minds. The equivalent figure for the much smaller group of people currently planning to vote Labour is 59%.

    Incredibly, more respondents (27%) say that the SNP is the party best able to keep Britain in the European Union than say the same about any other party. What a shocking indictment of the state of the pro-European lobby at Westminster (is there one anymore?)

  50. heedtracker says:

    “A Ukip MEP is facing calls to resign after allegedly comparing SNP minister Humza Yousaf to convicted terrorist Abu Hamza.

    Yousaf, the minister for Europe and international development in the Scottish government, said he was appalled, disgusted and hurt by the “Islamophobic” comment reported in the Scottish Daily Mail”

    Guess who that is? You need a thick skin in teamGb politics.

    Thank you so much BBC for giving UKIP, this nutter, Farage, all that lovely air time. Even bigger thanks to Jim Naughty, BBC proud Scotbut of the year 2014 and huge Farage groupie.

  51. Jim Thomson says:

    @Chic Thomson (very first post – not one of my rels afaik)

    Good point about effectively changing weightings on polls.

    If the numbers given indicate that there is a huge swing in allegiance (in any direction, for any party) do the pollsters have a method of tactically recalibrating their weightings?

  52. Jim Thomson says:

    @Joemcg 1:32pm

    I hope you’re not seriously suggesting that Embra should have developed into the characterless metrolops that is Londinium.

    Would you really like it to be so sprawly and bland?

  53. Xaracen says:

    “But do you believe this statement from Mr Cochrane? Why would he be right on this and wrong on so much else?”

    And since the quote from Cochrane’s book said: “but I hear that the man responsible was Murray Foote”, it cannot be taken at all as solid evidence that it was Foote, so we really don’t know any more than we did before.

    It is nothing more than hearsay followed up with speculation.

  54. Sinky says:

    Prof John Robertson still doing sterling work in his weekly monitoring of the BBC/STV political reporting in Scotland

  55. Marcia says:

    A big welcome to our new readers from the Stirling Area.

  56. Jim Thomson says:

    Assuming that there is a UKLab/SNP “arrangement” whereby the minority government is provided with confidence and supply support to keep the toxic tories at bay, how would the SNP ensure that their confidence isn’t misplaced?

    I think any such arrangement would need to have, at the very least, observer status within the UKLab cabinet and any associated ministerial level discussions and meetings.

    Has that ever been done in the past?

  57. Effijy says:

    I once thought that Alan Johnston was one of the more down to earth members of the Labour Party, but why on earth can’t see through this contradictory policy that Labour should Not form a coalition with SNP, as they want to break up the UK?

    The proposals is in effect:

    Let’s break up the UK by making the Scot’s electoral choice persona non grata!
    Cast them out of the UK electoral system as they had threatened to leave, but headed our plea to stay, so let’s kick them out???

    Surely this could only happen with Wasdtemonster & the UK MADia.

  58. Nana Smith says:


    I posted this link yesterday.

    and the independent is reporting this

    UK’s nuclear weapons data and other sensitive internet traffic accidentally sent through Ukraine

  59. Port Jim says:

    They don’t seem to have a clue how revealing this mounting stream of bile is!
    We Scots have become sadly used to being patronised, looked down on and even despised by the southern establishment but, coming so soon after the “we love you Scotland”, “equal and valued member of our family of nations” bullshit we were deluged with in September, this stuff really smacks you in the face.
    They couldn’t do more to boost the “Yes, next time” vote if they tried! There’s nothing like being monstered and othered to remind you who your real friends are.

  60. JillP says:

    That poor chimp.
    Would you like a pic of an “ugly monkey” ie macaque wearing a rosette? I’ll get working on it. 🙂

  61. Joemcg says:

    Jim-not size, everything else!

  62. desimond says:

    I keep thinking of the model in the movie Se7en.
    Take suicide pills or lose some face…she takes the pills.

    She is Scottish Labour

  63. Dr Jim says:

    I’m not descended from the Labour Party

    I must have evolved from something entirely different

    Squeek Squeek A wee Scottish rat mibbes

    A’ll away an hae a wee dance noo!!

  64. Richardinho says:

    On the one hand the Labour party regularly expresses extreme contempt for the SNP yet on the other they are yet to explicitly rule out a post election agreement with them. The only logical conclusion is that they fully intend to hash out an agreement with the SNP if it allows them to form a government. It’s this kind of dishonesty and double dealing that makes people on both sides of the border rightfully scunnered with the Labour party.

  65. Bob Mack says:

    I think I can solve this primate thing. Murphy declared he was in charge and did not need to “ape ” Westminster policies .Since that declaration he has made a complete “monkey ” of himself with the electorate. Evolution gone wrong ? Or perhaps revolution gone wrong

  66. Fiona says:

    @ Jim Thomson

    Not sure what the problem you see is?

    If there is a “confidence and supply” arrangement, what that means is that the supporting party will not vote against the minority government on motions of no confidence or on budget and money bills.

    For there to be any sort of arrangement that is the minimum required, I think.

    On all else the supporting party can vote as seems best to it, and that means that sometimes the incumbent government will lose. An important vote lost gives the opposition the opportunity to put down a “no confidence” motion, but in the situation envisaged there is no point in doing that, because the government will win

    Support of this sort can, of course, be withdrawn if the government do not make basic compromises on “red line” issues

    What this does is abolish the “strong government”(for which read “government which can do any mortal thing it likes”) which is said to be the big advantage of FPTP systems: but it only does so because the composition of parliament reflects an electorate which has not voted for “strong government” in the first place. I believe that the people may individually want “strong government” by their party of preference, but it needs a broad consensus to get that outcome and we don’t seem to have that now in any part of the UK: folk are fed up with governments which do stuff they never declared as their intention and did not put in their manifesto’s, I think.

    Obviously our entitled parliamentarians see this as a bad development. But a lot of people disagree, it seems.

    As it happens I think this is a better way than a PR system, because the latter means that you cannot know what you are actually voting for: whereas with confidence and supply, a detailed manifesto with clear “red line” issues spelled out, means that you can.

    What I am not certain about is whether the SNP is offering confidence and supply formally: or whether they are only saying they will vote on a case by case basis without such a commitment

  67. Effijy says:

    Stop Everything!

    Just seen that the Irish Economy is now the fastest growing in Europe!

    Now let’s get this clear, they cannot do this!
    This claim belongs to Westminster.
    It is theirs!
    Only their policies are allowed to work!

    For heaven’s sake don’t they know that they have left the Broad Thieving shoulders of the UK? They are not allowed to do this!

    Just think about it, the oil reserves that they have, Zero barrels, will run out!

    They won’t be able to have old age pensions, other than the ones that they currently have, that are superior to Westminsters!

    There will be no English war ship orders, or Trident Jobs, or at least none in future? Sorry never had one of these jobs!
    How will they protect themselves when they don’t waste £millions
    on illegal wars and Nuclear Missiles?

    What would the Irish do for currency if the left the UK pound?
    It took them 60 years to leave the Irish Pound, but things are
    still looking good as Europe’s leader.

    As Glen Miller sang:

    Paddy me Bhoy, is that the chart that shows that we lose?

  68. Effijy says:

    RE Picture with Labour Rosette wearer:

    Dippity Dug’s hair is sitting better, but won’t you consider waxing, or an industrial sized bottle of Immac?

  69. desimond says:

    Now finding myself wondering how will the Scottish media manage to make Labour seem most important when they arent biggest Scottish party in Holyrood or Westminster.

    Good Times.

  70. HandandShrimp says:

    The Labour MP nicked Coburn’s comment about a lassie in atin helmet for his sppech. I wonder if Coburn is upping the ante and daring them to nick his Abu Hamza comment

    Coburn is a troll….much of what UKIP do is trolling. I think it is to get air time.

  71. heedtracker says: This is all over my neck of the web today and on rancid Graun although it could google ads in chrome.

    If THE VOW wasn’t a complete and utter UKOK shyst via the Record con artists, what are they so frightened off?

  72. gerry parker says:

    @ Mutly.

    Nicola always does well at these London events, she comes over as a competent well informed politician and never ducks a question.

    Bet it makes Murphy mad!

    Hope the Beeb broadcast it in its entirety.

  73. Fiona says:

    @ gerry parker

    Come, come. How can anyone expect the BBC to broadcast it in its entirety? The audience would get bored and confused. Much better to broadcast the main points, as selected by the impartial programme makers, so as to inform the people without overtaxing their poor wee brains.

    Do you not trust the BBC’s editing, or something? For shame!

  74. Connor McEwen says:

    Have you watched Huffington Post, So Tory Supermarket video?
    Did you get your place money on Bless The Wings,Thursday?
    Apparently Churchill wanted to assasinate Gandhi,and was responsible for the Black and Tans in Ireland.
    Now Cameron unveils a statue to Gandhi,MMM.
    50 years from now a statue of Alec Salmond?

  75. Rob James says:

    Nana Smith @ 1:20pm

    Watched Victoria Newland the other day claiming that thousands of Russian troops and heavy artillery were crossing the border into Ukraine. Any amateur behavioural psychiatrist could easily detect the signs of lying. Had she been attached to a polygraph, I’m certain that there would have been a short circuit.

    When google earth can offer us high definition imagery of our own houses, it seems strange that the US military could only produce one grainy infra red image of a piece of towed artillery, sitting in some unknown field.

    I would suggest that the equipment in question was an M46 ( the 46 relates to the year it came into service) Russia stopped using this piece of equipment some thirty years ago.

  76. Jim Thomson says:

    @Fiona 2:13pm

    Thanks Fiona but, I am aware of what it means in its simplistic form.

    I am considering a more complex understanding that might require issues to be fully explored before any genuine, and unapologetic, support is given.

    I’m sure the last thing a supportive party needs is to be hoodwinked into providing enough additional votes to have some deviously scripted motion to be passed. In that kind of instance it would be extremely sensible to insist on having an observer’s seat in the room where policy decisions are being made. It also effectively forces the ruling party to behave themselves at cabinet or maybe even ministerial level.

    That is why I asked if anyone has any knowledge of such observer status existing in any UK government before now.

  77. Connor McEwan says:

    15th.September 2014 in Aberdeen, closed door meeting of course, to oil and beeb only.
    Cameron,”Please stay ,with all my heart and soul,please stay”
    15th March 2015,Please shut up,Westminster only wants your wealth of talent not you opinion.

  78. Effijy says:

    Rev, you may well have hit the nail on the head with your “Monkey”Picture!

    The Hollywood hit movie, “The Planet of the Apes” completely mimics the current political structure in which the Scots find themselves.

    A Complex sociological disorder runs through both situations.
    The Scots find themselves marooned in a fantasy government that is Ruled by the Simians (Blue Tories) and the humans (Scots) are slaves.

    The stunned Scots discovers that these highly intellectual simians can both walk upright, talk, and have developed a finely tuned ability to lie.

    Planet Westminster have even established a class system and a political structure. The Simians control gives them ever increasing powers and improving lifestyle.
    They use the Gorillas, (Red Tory Labour) to enforce their will against the Humanitarians (Scots).

    Recognising themselves to be a suppressed and devalued species, trapped and imprisoned by the apes, the humans form a resistance movement and start voting SNP!

    True to life, they needed a sequel to get things right!

  79. Fred says:

    That’s no Chimp that’s Davidson! Oh Chump sorry! 🙂

    Who was behind the assasination attempts on De Gaulle?

  80. ronnie anderson says:

    BBC running story on Litter in English streets, (reminiscent of Maggy Thatcher & litter strewn Westminster Green for her photo oppertunity) Mps report it would cost £380 million to clearup.

    Q Benifit Scroungers & job seekers army of clearup squads.



  81. Effijy says:

    Any Current Day Comparisons in Scotland today?

    Gandhi:-The Champaran agitation pitted the local peasantry against their largely British landlords who were backed by the local administration. The peasantry was forced to grow Indigo, a cash crop whose demand had been declining over two decades, and were forced to sell their crops to the planters at a fixed price. Unhappy with this, the peasantry appealed to Gandhi at his ashram in Ahmedabad. Pursuing a strategy of nonviolent protest, Gandhi took the administration by surprise and won concessions from the authorities.[58]

  82. Jim Thomson says:

    @ronnie anderson I see that the odds are now in the SNP favour in your neck of the woods. 🙂

  83. jock mc X says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says
    They’re clearly not too popular with their colleagues south of the border.

    They are, and will be remembered by every scot,english, welsh
    and N irish man/woman as ("Tractor" - Ed)s to thier own country and

    The reward…utter contempt…as seen on the face of W hague
    during gorgon brown’s speech in the devo debate.

    Even in the house of horrors they will be thought of as the
    bottom of the barrel.

  84. creag an tuirc says:

    Here we come, walkin’ down the street.
    We get the funniest looks from ev’ry one we meet.

    Hey, hey, we’re the Monkees
    And people say we monkey around.
    But we’re too busy mud slinging
    and put everybody down.

    We’re just lyin’ to be friendly,
    Come and watch us sling and slay,
    We’re the dinosaur generation,
    And we’ve got nothing to say.

  85. Lollysmum says:

    Yes Nicola is in London on Monday & my ticket arrived yesterday. Looking forward to it 🙂

    To the rest of you please forgive my countrymen for their attitudes ‘for they know not what they do’. Just as Scots have been conditioned over the years, so have the English, Welsh & Northern Irish. Just as you have always been lied to, so the rUK is being lied to now a)to destroy Labour (by the tories) b) To destroy SNP (by Labour).

    The Westminster bubble is just that-what the commentariat sees is a distortion of what is really happening on the ground. They kid themselves that what they say is happening really is so, when they are actually so far wide of the mark that it’s untrue. They have spent so much time kidding themselves & their viewers/readers that they can’t now report on the reality because they’d be a laughing stock. They have pretty neatly backed themselves into a corner by following party & govt lines that they now have nowhere to go from there. Ahhhhhh!

    Hey ho SLab, Tories, broadcasters & journalists-just keep on digging, that black hole is getting ever deeper & wider & with any luck you will be disappearing into it, never to be seen again.

    Meantime, all here will sit back & enjoy your demise 🙂

  86. Nana Smith says:

    @Rob James

    Interesting Rob, thanks for that. I don’t watch tv, I’m sure plenty stuff passes me by.

  87. Nana Smith says:

    It has emerged that Labour hate figure, Tory Lord Ashcroft, and Labour’s Douglas Alexander who is coordinating Ed Milliband’s election campaign, have had “secret talks”.

    Lord Ashcroft in election strategy talks with Labour

    The bbc donates…

  88. galamcennalath says:

    @Jim Thomson

    You got me looking at betting odds for the GE now!

    They seem to believe the most likely number of SNP MPs is around 41-45.

  89. john king says:

    creag an tuirc @ 3.06

    Brilliant I love it, I was in 1969 for a moment there.

  90. Jim Thomson says:


    Sorry about that 😛

    It is a wee bit addictive after a while (sorta like glue I suppose)

    Our Philippa has now made it to evens although, to balance the bookies’ books, Donohoe is still odds on (just).

    I see that for Ayr, Cumnock and Doon Valley that Corri has a pretty solid odds on position now.

  91. Effijy says:

    Just heard about Ireland having the fasted growing economy in Europe!

    This isn’t allowed!

    Westminster say that this belongs to them?

    How could it possibly belong to the Irish, when they left the thieving Broad Shoulders of the UK?

    How could they survive with a UK pound?
    Is the answer the Irish Pound or the Euro, as both went well?

    They are a smaller nation than Scotland, who couldn’t survive alone,so this just cannot be true in planet Westminster!

    Don’t they realise that the oil they don’t have will run out?

    Don’t they know that leaving the UK means that they don’t have an old age pension, well other than the one the do have which is superior to the UK’s?

    Headlines like this that cannot be censored or distorted by the UK media are just not helpful to maintaining the wealth of the Filthy Rich and their UK minions.

    Just not good enough Ireland!

    I am writing to Jim Murphy to see if he is willing to return to
    his ancestral home and offer advice on driving your economy backwards!

    You will be liable for both his expenses, and his glue.

  92. jock mc X says:

    Nobody likes a………tractor,is all i’m sayin.

  93. TJenny says:

    Yeeehah – crowdfund total now at £100,152 (@16.001 🙂 🙂 🙂

    And still 16 days left. Oh, I do sooo love Wingers. 😉

  94. cearc says:

    Following the exciting news that the fundraiser is now over £100k. May I point out that we are still looking for some donations to be credited towards a gold badge for Paula Rose. £52 to go.

    So dig down the sofa, donate a couple of quid and post on off-topic to say how much.

    Paula Rose really needs the bit of class that a real gold badge would bring!

  95. Roll_On_2015 says:

    14.03.2015 04.33 pm

    From Falkirk to Halifax, the NuLabour saga continues.

  96. JLT says:

    The unsettling question that might not have dawned on the English media is ‘What happens if the SNP really do get into bed with Labour? What then? What becomes of the Union since we have painted the Scots as extremely untrustworthy?’

    Because, sure as night follows day, this lot down south will have whipped the English Electorate up to a point of rebellion with their anti-Scottish rhetoric.

    What happens if the SNP are handed partial-control of a UK government? My guess is London will protest big-time. If the cries of dissent go up, we may end up with seriously major protests outside either Westminster or within Trafalgar Square. This then brings a new question to the English media; how do they put their own genie back in the bottle?

    They can’t really tell the Electorate that it will be okay and that they should trust the SNP! For the last 3 odd years, they’ve painted the SNP black during the referendum, and are finding new darker tones from the palette within this General Election. To suddenly try and paint the SNP a paler shade of white won’t cut it! To admit that they may have over-indulged in blackening the SNP name (as well as the Scots) means that the English media would be horribly exposed as being untruthful, and very untrustworthy! It would kick off the same scenario as in Scotland in which the people here have lost faith with the main state media outlets.

    Somehow, I don’t think the English media have cottoned on, that if the worst scenarios all play out, then they may end up with the Union fragmenting big time, as the English Electorate see through a skewed prism of what happened up here. They will cotton on that the Union no longer serves as it should, but they won’t see the real reasons properly. Whereas Scotland tries to gain powers so it can try to deal with the problems of poverty as well as take Democracy to the next level, the English Electorate will be out to preserve their own self-interests without realising what they actually are! Claiming independence with no real plan, nor a future to chart! Where would they go from there with perceived problems of immigration, a mountain of debt and half the nation wanting out the EU? Completely lost would be my guess.

    And in the end …we may have to thank the English media for finally breaking the Union.

  97. Hoss Mackintosh says:


    did you see my last post in O/T?

    Think that may be what you need…

  98. crazycat says:

    More pedantry –

    In the image taken from the YouGov tables, the column for Labour Holyrood Voting Intention has been used.

    Using the Westminster column replaces the figures {41, 47, 11} with {35, 51, 14} – which doesn’t make a lot of difference, in fact even fewer Labour voters think a deal should be ruled out, and more think it shouldn’t; but since you have talked about those who are “planning to vote Scottish Labour in May”, I assume you mean this May, not next!

  99. Cactus says:

    Hey TJenny, hope things are going great in the capital 🙂

    Yeah, that’s a cracking 6-figure crowdfunder achieved so far.. just in time for reporting in tomorrows Sunday papers too!

    With all these targets being successfully achieved and surpassed, what’s the chances of there being 10,000+ comments over in the off-topic / JukeBox page, before we all go back to the polling booths again..

    Greetings from Glasgow X

  100. Stoker says:

    @ Hoss.

    Just to let you know, in case you’re unaware mate.

    The demo tomorrow is off.

  101. CyberMidgie says:

    [OT] Electoral Registrations

    Anyone in the Clackmannanshire, Falkirk or Stirling council areas can check their electoral registrations by contacting their Electoral Registration Office using these details:

    I have a letter confirming that I’ve been automatically re-registered under the new system, so I should be OK, but I’m making very sure to keep that letter in case they screw up my vote anyway and I need to prove it.

  102. liz says:

    OMG not that I think much of FOS now, but that military band took any emotion right out of it – dire.

  103. effijy says:

    Dear Rev Campbell,

    I have just had the privilege of purchasing the 500th Copy of
    The Wee Blue Book Souvenir Edition!

    I have donated to our noble cause previously, and will do so again, but wonder if it would be possible for you to sign these books?

    I really believe that these books will be passed down the generations where our families will be proud that I have been playing my part in setting them free, and enabled them to take control their own destiny.

    Thank You!

  104. Joemcg says:

    Who are the negative no voters supporting in the rugby? Must be a dilemma.

  105. Dal Riata says:

    “A party [Labour] source said:” If those Scottish monkeys had done their job…””

    That is a racist and slanderous comment. Did a Labour party “source” really say that? When they are quoting their “party source”, it surely means someone within the upper reaches of the party. Should that person not be booted out by his party leader for making such a remark?

    Who was/is the Labour party “source”, the Sun? The name to the voice of that disgraceful statement is…?


    Did the Sun falsify a “source” to allow the Sun to make the racist statement? Possibly. The tabloid press has got history of unattributed ‘sources’. But that “Scottish monkeys” statement is so inflammatory that it is heading towards being actionable if they did make it up.

    So, then, it’s over to you Red Ed [sic] to find the truth.

  106. Marco McGinty says:

    Off topic, but I’ve just tuned into the Scotland-England rugby match, and have listened to the utter piss take of Flower of Scotland, our national anthem.

    When did the English decide that our national anthem should be played in the style of a German oompah band?

  107. Roll_On_2015 says:

    OT – Or mebee not

    Picked this article up from the New Statesman:

    You cannot fight an idea“: Why Labour is increasingly bleak about its prospects in Scotland

    But it seems unlikely that a change at the top, either in Scotland or the United Kingdom as a whole, is unlikely to benefit Labour. The polling suggests that not only do the SNP’s supporters want to live in another country – increasingly as far as their opinions are concerned, they already do. Take Jim Murphy’s approval ratings, not stellar but around the David Cameron mark at -10% in the latest publically avaialble poll. But that conceals strong ratings among Labour voters (+55 per cent), Liberal voters (+13 per cent) and Conservatives (+ 5 per cent). (To give you an idea of how good those are, Cameron is at -71 per cent with Labour voters in the rest of the UK.)

    The only way you can fight an idea is, of course, with a better idea. All they are doing currently is throwing around Monkey Shoite.

  108. Stoker says:

    @ Nana (4.52pm).

    One of your best finds, imo, quite powerful and hard hitting.

    Consider it shared far and wide.

  109. Stephen Armstrong says:

    You cannot blame the Monkeys…they only obey orders.
    It’s the British Organ-Grinders in London who are the real menace.
    The Monkey’s have danced to their tune since the 1880s!

  110. Papadox says:

    Obviously the band at the rugby don’t know how to play flower of Scotland.

  111. Croompenstein says:

    @effijy –

    but wonder if it would be possible for you to sign these books?

    Great idea effijy and maybe Stu could draw a wee cartoon as well as his Nurse Murphy was a modern day masterpiece 😀

  112. Dal Riata says:

    “Scot to stop… held to ransom… crazy demands of the SNP… break up the UK… scrap our [sic] nuclear deterrent… economic policies […] disaster area”

    We are now getting very close to the edge, that fall into the precipice when the call comes for the SNP to be declared as some kind of illegal entity with no right of representation at Westminster. It will only take one MP or newspaper to cross the rubicon, and then the voices of agreement will supress those of tolerance. From there? Who knows – the British state has many actors with experience in the dark arts who could concoct any kind of ‘incident’ at the behest of their political masters should ‘the need’ arise – but they would be dangerous times indeed should they come to pass.

    Already, the sizeable number of SNP MPs that is predicted to be going to Westminster to perform their duties for their constituencies in Scotland, as would be their democratic right, are being voiced with increasing gusto as personae non gratae by the British Establishment and Westminster unionism.

    “In diplomacy, the term persona non grata (Latin, plural: personae non gratae), literally meaning “an unwelcome person,” refers to a foreign person whose entering or remaining in a particular country is prohibited by that country’s government. It is the most serious form of censure which one country can apply to foreign diplomats, who are otherwise protected by diplomatic immunity from arrest and other normal kinds of prosecution.” (Wikipedia)

  113. Leslie Thomson says:

    Firstly, that is a chimpanzee, which is an ape, not a mokey. Secondly, I consider that depiction to be a gross insult to the high modicum of intelligence which chimpanzees exhibit.

  114. Richardinho says:

    There was a letter in the Herald today suggesting that the SNP shouldn’t be allowed to be part of the government because they were a ‘regional party’ and did not represent the rest of the UK. Obviously this is news to those of use who remember the Ulster Unionists in coalition with the Tories and indeed to the people of Northern Ireland where the Labour and Liberals don’t even stand for election, but aside from it’s obvious ‘zoomery’ it reflects a growing trend to try to formally exclude the SNP from participation in government at Westminster. I would not be at all surprised if indeed some legislation was brought in in the next parliament (or even this one!) to explicitly do this.

  115. Nana Smith says:

    O/T again!

    Richard Murphy has paid Scotland a visit so here’s his thoughts.

    Check out Richard Murphy’s reply to Foxcubsdad04

  116. Mealer says:

    They seem to be determined to dig a trench between THEM and US,which isn’t very sensible for the long term.Its all good for US,though.

  117. Fiona says:

    I can’t see what difference it makes, if Labour do a “deal” with the SNP or they don’t.

    If the polls are correct then there is a hung parliament and nobody can form a government by themselves. Nor, if the arithmetic is correct, can anyone form a government by making a deal with the Libdems or UKIP or anyone else

    So what happens?

    1. We have another election. Can we do that with fixed term parliaments? Presumably there is some mechanism for that.

    2. Cameron is asked to form a government and cannot: so Milliband is asked. And whether he likes it or not the SNP may say yes: in which case Labour form a government and the SNP vote on a case by case basis, as they said they would.

    What is the problem here?

  118. Wuffing Dug says:

    The apologists in the blue shirts were also playing for England. No belief, no passion. Anyway, what’s wrong with a bit of German oompah? Sehr gut!

  119. galamcennalath says:

    Richardinho says:
    “There was a letter in the Herald today suggesting that the SNP shouldn’t be allowed to be part of the government because they were a ‘regional party’ and did not represent the rest of the UK”

    They will try anything to defeat democracy! Does that mean that if the Labour lose their seats in Scotland and become a ‘regional party’ of England & Wales they should excluded from government? Or, more likely, the Tories and LibDems find themselves in that position, they too should be excluded?

    They begged, schemed and deceived to keep Scotland in the Union. Now they want us to not play a part in its government!? Are we to be reduced to ‘the occupied territories’?

  120. Effijy says:

    Tried to say this 3 times now and getting paranoid about it being intercepted?

    Ireland announce that they are the fastest growing economy in Europe.

    This is not allowed as only Westminster are allowed to make any positive claims.

    How could it possibly be Ireland, the left the thieving broad shoulders of the UK?

    What currency could they use to trade if they left pounds sterling? The Irish pound and the Euro appears to be the answer!

    They are too small a nation to survive. They cannot be doing better than Englandshire. God could not allow it.

    Don’t the Irish know that their Oil reserves, which are Zero, will run out!

    Don’t they know that there would be no Old Age Pension if the left the UK? Well other than the one they have which pays better than the UK’s!

    This news has probably filtered through the Irish media.
    How can they hope to be happy without TV, Radio, and Press blocking, distorting and lying about the news.

    May God have mercy on them

  121. liz says:

    Listening to the post match comment, England will not get away with making errors like that against a ‘bigger’ team.

    Obviously only one team playing according to the chat, the Scots interviewer lady and the guy on the panel listening to that are playing the 2nd class citizen act – pathetic

  122. In reference to your image, I must point out that chimpnzees are not monkeys, they are great apes, and (as a consequence) very few of them support Scottish Labour.

  123. crazycat says:

    @ Fiona

    1. We have another election. Can we do that with fixed term parliaments? Presumably there is some mechanism for that.

    2. Cameron is asked to form a government and cannot: so Milliband is asked. And whether he likes it or not the SNP may say yes: in which case Labour form a government and the SNP vote on a case by case basis, as they said they would.

    My understanding of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act is that your 2. happens first; only if no-one manages to command a majority in the HoC after 14 days have elapsed does 1. occur. An election triggered by a party refusing to accept offered support might not be too good for said party.

    They could try to repeal the FTPA, but to do that would require a majority in the House…….

  124. Fiona says:

    Thanks crazycat

    Further question. How could a party refuse to accept support?

  125. Marco McGinty says:

    @Wuffing Dug
    I was going to suggest to the SRU that the next time they play the anti-Scottish “UK national anthem”, that they choose the most ridiculous style of music, but then I realised that the hypocrites of the SRU (and quite possibly the majority of the Scottish rugby team) will be pro-union, so it would be a wasted effort.

    However, perhaps the SFA will take this on, and the next time the dirge is due to be played, we will hear it in a most ludicrous musical style. Perhaps it could be based on the Latin rhythm from Bontempi organs of the 70s and 80s, or in a deliberately bad hip-hop style?

    Or the Sex Pistols gets played – by pure accident, of course!

  126. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Fiona.

    I guess they could reject the offer of support – and

    a) consign themselves to the opposition benches
    b) lose most of their support among the English and Welsh electorate as well.

  127. Roger Mexico says:

    But hostility to an arrangement with the SNP is far stronger in Scotland, with 41% of those still planning to vote for Scottish Labour in May wanting a deal ruled out, compared to just 15% of Labour supporters in the UK.

    I’m sorry Stu but this is either misreading the tables or you are being naughty. If you look at the YouGov figures the 41% you have quoted as saying Ed Miliband should “rule out a deal with the SNP” are those who are “planning to vote for Scottish Labour in May” in 2016. The word ‘Holyrood’ should give you a clue.

    The figure for those opposed to a deal for Westminster Labour voters in May 2015 is only 35% while 51% of them think Miliband should “leave open the possibility of a deal with the SNP”. Of course even among Holyrood voters more think things should be left open (by 47% to 41%). Presumably Holyrood (constituency) Labs are more ‘hardcore’.

    Rather than relying on figures from some dodgy website, we also now have the equivalent figures for Great Britain as well (these may not have been available when you wrote your piece). Asked the same question 24% of Labour voters (rather than LabourList activists) wanted to rule out a deal and 56% leave things open.

    So as with so many of that last lot of Wings opinion polls, there is a difference between Scotland and rGB, but it isn’t as dramatic as some might have thought:35%-51% as opposed to 24%-56%. Scottish Labour voters aren’t as keen to cut of their noses to spite their faces as you said.

    Mind you, you’re fight about the difficulty of finding a picture of a (non-ape) monkey with a rosette. I tried googling “monkey red rosette” and the first image that came up was of Willie Bain

  128. Croompenstein says:

    @Marco –

    Perhaps it could be based on the Latin rhythm from Bontempi organs of the 70s and 80s, or in a deliberately bad hip-hop style?

    I would go for it being played on the stylophone played by a dodgy old guy with specs and a goatee.. 😀

  129. One Labour source The Sun: ‘If those Scottish monkeys had done their jobs, we wouldn’t be in this mess.’

    What kind of baboon buffoon would call a man a monkey?

  130. Marco McGinty says:

    “I would go for it being played on the stylophone played by a dodgy old guy with specs and a goatee.. :D”

    We have a winner!

    And at the same time ensuring everyone remembers the friendship and close associations between Rolfie and Queenie. How much does she know?

  131. The Rough Bounds says:

    Marco @ 5.05pm.

    Flower of Scotland isn’t our national anthem. It’s just a song that people sing and it’s not even 50 years old.

    Our national anthem is Bruce’s address to his troops at Bannockburn or ‘Scots wha’ hae’.

    The words (by Burns) are over two hundred years old but the tune, played in march time, goes back to the early 14th. century and the correct name of the tune, ‘Tuttie Tattie’ goes back to Ennius, the Roman Latin poet.

    Sing Flower of Scotland as loud as you like, but it will never be our national anthem.

  132. Marco McGinty says:

    @The Rough Bounds
    “Flower of Scotland isn’t our national anthem. It’s just a song that people sing and it’s not even 50 years old. Our national anthem is Bruce’s address to his troops at Bannockburn or ‘Scots wha’ hae’.”

    Right, strictly speaking, we don’t have a national anthem, and Scotland the Brave (in addition to the other two mentioned), have all been used, but it is widely accepted that Flower of Scotland is the current “anthem” of choice whenever Scotland is represented at a national level in a variety of sporting events.

    I prefer Scots Wha Hae myself, but right or wrong, to most people, FoS is the recognised anthem of Scotland.

  133. Tam Jardine says:


    If the SNP offer the means to one of only 2 viable government’s in May (the other being a con lab deal) and labour reject it to force another election or plump for the con lab deal then we are surely on the independence superhighway.

    If our elected officials are to be treated as inferiors, insurgents, aliens, enemies then the union they love so much is null and void. We tried to strike out on our own and they did everything they could to stop us.

    Now we are to be prevented from participating, and vilified at every turn.

    If labour agree to this absurd anti-democracy then I think we will need a new declaration. I don’t think we can sit idly by while we are disenfranchised. I do not want my children to grow up in a land excluded from participation in government whilst we send our wealth down the road.

  134. Patrician says:

    Ape or monkey mixup? Stu, just watch out for a visit from the Librarian, he doesn’t like it when you get them wrong.

  135. Croompenstein says:

    @Tam –

    We might just need to dig a trench along the border..

  136. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Re: national anthem.

    When I was wee, “Scotland the Brave” was kinda acknowledged as Scotland’s national anthem. (50s + 60s.)

    However, when “Flower of Scotland” was released as a single in the 70s, it grew arms and legs – not through any official sanction – but because people like me (a function/party DJ) started to end off family parties, weddings, birthday parties and so on, with that track.

    People got into it. It’s been a “grass roots” acceptance of Flower of Scotland, over the years, followed by the rugby crowd, then everyone else.

    It’s “our” song – and we all know what the “grass roots” can do, iye?

  137. Tam Jardine says:


    Aye – either that or the first minute of this:

  138. Tam Jardine says:


    or even this:

  139. Born Optimist says:

    I often wonder about the mindset of those unfortunate readers of The Sun when they live in the borders regions.

    Do they get to see two sets of headlines/two editions, or does the publisher alternate; treating them one week as Scots, the next as English (there certainly has never been much of an attempt to be British for decades)?

  140. jock mc x says:

    flower of scotland means nothing to me after sept 18th.
    in an indie scotland,we are known around the globe for
    auld lang syne…that is our true national anthem,always has

  141. David says:

    Jock mc x, “Auld Lang Syne” may be known throughout the English-speaking world, but we mustn’t kid ourselves that it is equally popular in non-English-speaking nations.

    In 5 years in Brazil (language=Portuguese) I NEVER heard it sung or mentioned, either at Hogmanay or on any other day of the year.

    We need to avoid the arrogance so often assumed by the English-speaking invading forces as they strutted around the world. We need to have & show more respect for other cultures.

    Still, Sunday’s League Cup final will be shown on Fox Latin America, and Saturday’s preview programme featured a youth pipe band started, in a rough area, by a Brazilian retired ex-forces guy!

    More broadly, we need to build on our good or useful stereotypes, ones that give people a ‘feel-good’ factor about Scotland, or show the country in a good light. So that’s whisky, bagpipes, tartan, Nessie, the usual suspects. They can be our best ambassadors.

    Not much competition from the official embassies, which are mostly useless. For them UK = Britain = England. I seriously doubt if the UK consulate in Rio ever bothers to inform broadcasters that the Queen isn’t just the queen of England, etc, etc.

  142. Ken500 says:

    The Westminster warmongers whose lies have cost millions of innocent lives and £Billions, are sanctioning the vulnerable and starving people to death. Scotland would be far better of Independent. Scotland raises £54Billion in tax revenues and could raise more. Enough to cover all Scotland’s needs, with no debt. Scotland gets back £54Billion – £35Billion + £16Billion (UK) pensions/benefits, £3Billion Defence.

    Scotland could raise £4Billion a year more in Oil revenues (more from the West), £1Billion a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink, £1Billion getting rid of Trident illegal wars, saving in interest payments. An inheritance tax on non productive land. No tax evasion by (foreign) multinationals making vast profits. Scotland would be £Billions better off.

    The rest of the UK raises £412Billion and borrows £90Billion more. £502Billion.

  143. galamcennalath says:

    Tam Jardine says:
    at 12:06 am

    If the SNP offer the means to one of only 2 viable government’s in May (the other being a con lab deal) and labour reject it to force another election or plump for the con lab deal then we are surely on the independence superhighway.

    I don’t discount a Con-Lib alliance again. The ‘Scottish situation’ is probably effecting Lab in England … from Murphy wanting to spend their mansion tax of nurses here, to the demonisation of separatists influencing their parliament. The Tories could edge ahead. I believe that does leave another scenario where the SNP aren’t directly involved.

    There will probably be some Lab left in Scotland. That would mean a Con-Lab alliance would be representative of all UK. Weak, but it is an argument they would use.

    Our SNP MPs would not be frozen out of the business of parliament. They will no doubt make their presence felt. However, there is a very real chance they will be excluded from government and have little real influence.

    Will that put us on a “independence superhighway“?

    Not by itself, I fear. Other things need to happen. Either very big things which are at odds with Scotland’s interests, or a pattern of small things which add up.

    Most importantly, these events need to significantly influence Scottish voter opinion. Not just for anoraks like ourselves, but a lot of No voters. We cannot consider IndyRef2 until over 60% are Yes.

    We need to have a new strong pro-Indy parliamnet in place after Holyrood 2016. The WM style will have been well established by then – more powers, EU, austerity, Trident etc etc.

    The case for IndyRef2 needs to be strong and the public behind it. My believe is WM WILL bring the right conditions about with their usual mix of ignorance, arrogance, and animousity towards Scotland.

  144. Robert Peffers says:

    @Chitterinlicht says: 14 March, 2015 at 12:10 pm:


    Dinosaurs vs monkeys


    Who would have thought it?”

    All I can say is that the Dinosaurs are gone but there’s still apes & monkeys on the planet.

  145. Tam Jardine says:


    I agree that is a possibility. If current seat predictions pan out, am I right in saying the only possible gov majority would be con lab or lab snp? If labour scupper a viable deal with snp in favour of limping to another general election or worse still come to an agreement with the tories then the Scottish people will know once and for all that they are second class citizens and will push for independence.

    There are many scenarios possible but the ‘deny Scotland a seat at the table’ one seems to be popular and quite likely. The tories could have a late surge and win a narrow majority… stranger things have happened at sea

  146. Michael Diamond says:

    Roll on may 8th. Hope its better news than sep 18th.

  147. Roll on may the 8th.

  148. John Boyes says:

    See 19.40 and 20.20 Appears we’re now part of that “rag-tag mob of nationalists,populists and special interest”

    And to think they loved us only a few months ago.

  149. Paula Rose says:

    I’m really not getting this – we chose to stay in the UK, we’re going to send a progressive party to Westminster who may have a deciding say in the future of the UK, that future may well be to the benefit of all – yet we are bunch of insurgents? I’m an outdamlady.

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