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The lie and the truth

Posted on December 03, 2014 by

The Daily Record, 27 November 2014:

budget2x

So, IS the Scottish Government budget going to “nearly double”?

The Chancellor’s autumn budget statement, 3 December 2014:

budgetstatement

If you can’t quite make that out:

“A deduction will be applied to the block grant to reflect the Scottish Government’s tax powers.

As a result, the importance of the Barnett Formula will effectively be reduced by around two-thirds, with changes in the Scottish Government’s budget increasingly determined by changes in Scottish tax receipts.”

Or in other words, as we’ve been telling you for ages, the Scottish Government’s budget will only double if it doubles your taxes. (Actually more like triples, since it still won’t have control of most of them and would have to get ALL the money from income tax alone.) Which plainly isn’t going to happen. Nobody’s about to make the basic rate of income tax 60%, so the Scottish Government budget is staying right where it is.

Bewilderingly, the Daily Record still hasn’t admitted to its readers that it was lying to them on an epic scale less than a week ago. Normally you’d expect a tiny correction to be buried on page 2 within 24 or 48 hours in the hope that everyone would overlook it. But it seems determined to cling onto the lie as long as possible.

We’ll keep you informed, folks.

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    1. 03 12 14 15:01

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    69 to “The lie and the truth”

    1. Johnny B says:

      How long can one hold ones breath awaiting Torcuil ever stating he is wrong, about anything, ever.

    2. Susan says:

      What was the point of Leveson if there is no way to stop this sort of behavior?

    3. BrianW says:

      Funny, all I can hear in my mind after reading this is Fleetwood Mac..

      Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies..

    4. Luigi says:

      The sooner that evil rag crashes and burns, the better.

    5. ClanDonald says:

      “A deduction will be applied to the block grant to reflect the Scottish Government’s tax powers.”

      What does that mean anyway? They can’t deduct it, as they will still be collecting our income tax via HMRC then paying it back to us as part of our annual block sum, just like they do now.

      Let us collect it here in Scotland, THEN you can deduct it.

      Or will they be making a deduction anyway based on a hypothetical amount that they think we can raise if we increase taxes? Wouldn’t surprise me.

      If Scotland gets less to spend next year due to any financial jiggery pokery will the Daily Record stick up for us? Or will they just go “SNP bad.”

    6. tombee says:

      Surely, it must be coming close to the time when those who voted NO realise that they have been deceived. I say that because, by now surely, we would have heard or read some sort of response from, at least, some of them.
      But then, maybies naw.

    7. gordon browns beard says:

      Torcuil Cretin and the Rectum telling the truth? Nah no chance.

    8. Steve Bowers says:

      Oooops ! think I just knocked over a pensioner in my rush to get to the tax office and pay more

    9. call me dave says:

      Mags on TV promising the UK folk that ‘we are only months away from getting rid of the tories’.

      She got stuck on explaining why NI should get corporation tax and the Scots won’t!

      George O isn’t doing us any favours, just doing us.

      Will at least some of the 55% folk see that it was all a con.

    10. Chic McGregor says:

      Maybe it should change its name to The Daily Reword?

    11. Yesemite Sam says:

      The plot thins.

      Levesson gets kicked into the long grass whilst the referendum campaign is underway. In return for nothing happening to curb the wilder excesses of the press they in turn promise to lie, lie and lie again to save the Union. So the Fourth Estate, instead of holding the Establishment to account, joins forces with it to preserve their mutually cosy existences. What a shower of B’s.

    12. Grouse Beater says:

      Instead of voting Yes in order to have the best leverage for our government to attain real Devo-Max in the event full independence needed time to arrive fully formed, No voters voted for another country to continue dictating favours, and its own to remain servile.

      Embarrassing?

      Lethal!

      I’d like to say No voters deserve all Westminster dumps upon their heads were it not for the fact Yes voters are equally screwed.

    13. sydthesnake says:

      Brian W
      sadly nothing sweet about these lies, unfortunately there are still some gullible folks buying the day-late retard for their daily dose of mis-information that is passed as gospel

    14. Gregor says:

      I was born on Tyneside in 1947 and my father was English and proud telling me through my childhood “An English mans word is his bond” its in the Times so it must be true, how my father must be rolling in his Urn (he was cremated)
      I see nothing but doom and gloom in the Smith Commission for Scotland The No voters allowed themselves to be conned by the the media because they wanted to believe

    15. Grizzle McPuss says:

      Now what would the outcry be if four SNP councillors publicly burnt ‘that’ copy of the DR?

      Oh hang on, crap doesn’t burn…d-ah!! I guess placing said rag on top of a compost heap wouldn’t quite have the same dramatic effect?

      Anyhow, to sum up the proposed new shiny VOW-driven, Smith proposed revenue creating Scottish budget powers for the politically challenged observers out there:-

      Picture someone trying to collect sand in a bucket that has a gaping hole in the bottom…

      …now picture George Osbourne with a drill in his hand.

    16. crisiscult says:

      As we’ve known since the SNP scored their majority, what needs to happen is that the Scottish Parliament needs to become super unpopular as quickly as possible, and stop people whinging and saying they should have more power in their wee region that they mistakenly think is a nation inside a voluntary union. I think tripling income tax may just encourage Scots to vote to return all power to Westminster.

    17. think again says:

      The Vow = doubleplusgood says Daily Record. Now I have to hand myself in as I must confess to a thought crime.

    18. muttley79 says:

      Torcuil Crichton asking on Twitter why Scotland is not getting control over corporation tax when Northern Ireland now has the power to use it? I suspect he is not being satirical about his newspapers support for a No vote, and all that that entails.

    19. david agnew says:

      Hoisted by ones own petard, not once but twice. I smell desperation for this commission to deliver. But that is in the gift of westminster, and lets be honest here, the smith commission with its already watered down proposals will find itself slashed and burned in committee.

      There is no extra money for Scotland. It is only gaining the responsibility for collecting income tax. The block grant is then cut by that amount. The Daily record must know this. A brazen lie told, a promise that can never be met and done with the odd notion there is simply no way it can be held to account for this.

      What a difference a referendum makes. I never thought when I started on this journey, that I would come to regard the Union, the labour party and the Daily Record, with the same level of contempt I have for the conservatives.

      The smith commission proposals, which sre frankly nothing more than austerity broth made by boiling the shadow of a carrot that had been left to rot in the rain, makes me wonder if the daily record abandoned good principles to protect labour and the union, or whether it ever had any to begin with?

    20. Joe Barr says:

      What they have done, as far as I can see, is put in place a formula that will allow the Westmonster govt to dictate what tax rate THEY will set for Scotland by raising or lowering the amount of money from the Barnet formula. If the formula produces a figure that is low (surely not I hear you say!) the Scottish Govt would need to increase tax to make up the difference. So the SNP gets the blame, and every paper in Scotland would echo that sentiment “higher taxes? Blame the SNP!”

    21. manandboy says:

      Stu says: “But it seems determined to cling onto the lie as long as possible.”

      The record has previous on that score, Stu. Just ask any football supporter of a non-unionist hue.

    22. donald anderson says:

      Daily Reptile sales to9 nearly halve.

    23. velofello says:

      Does income tax devolved mean the income tax of citizens on the voters register in Scotland? And so the the workers in the “ex regio” North Sea oil and gas fields? And persons on overseas assignments? Working in the branches of English registered companies? Armed forces?

      The Smith Commission turned out as expected, a waste of time. Mr Smith must/should feel pretty used and abused to have been so taken for a mug by the Establishment.

    24. donald anderson says:

      Burning a copy of another false documents is a cheap price to pay for these mass murderers.

    25. MajorBloodnok says:

      “A deduction will be applied to the block grant to reflect the Scottish Government’s tax powers.

      As a result, the importance of the Barnett Formula will effectively be reduced by around two-thirds, with changes in the Scottish Government’s budget increasingly determined by changes in Scottish tax receipts.”

      What this says to me is that the amount of money coming to Scotland through “Barnett Consequentials” will reduce by two thirds, as we are supposed to cover that ourselves through our tax powers.

      Does that not mean that when Westminster splurges on big projects In England (that it doesn’t exempt as being ‘National projects’) that we’ll only get a third of what we would have got before?

    26. Faltdubh says:

      I feel sad.

      45% of us and counting certainly care, and we were only 200,000 plus votes from winning, but still, so many people don’t care or bother about it.

      My ”I couldn’t vote no” but didn’t support Indy pal. I’ve tried numerous, hundreds of times to convince him. He’s just non-political. Will see the head lines of this and no doubt any time we bring up politics, (the rest of his Yes pals) will spout that “Vow delivers” headline to us.

      Too many folk like him. He’s a great guy. I’m not going to slag him as a friend, or a person. He has a heart of gold and would do so much for his pals in trouble.

      Just very easily pleased, content and guilible with his politics.

      Yet, this Vow/Smith Commission nothingness (less devolution than an occupied province of GB, Northern Ireland) will be glossed over for the 3 SNP councillors who, by the love of god, burned the Smith Commission report.

      Still, as I’ve said numerous times to my SSP and Green pals. Vote SNP next year and I’ll return the favour tactically 2nd vote in 2016. If the 1.6 million or the bulk of us keep engaged, even better join a pro-indy party, or even, just turn out on the first Thursday in May for the General Election and take 10 minutes to vote SNP.

      We’ll be exactly where those polls are saying we’ll be at. And Kingmakers for those Unionists.

    27. Dr Jim says:

      Given that our SNP controlled Scottish Government avidly reads WOS i would very much like to congratulate John Swinney on his long distance education of George Osborne on how to do tax with regards to his obvious studying of our extremely competent Finance Secretary,although it’s such a pity he does’nt pay full attention to the esteemed Mr Swinney then maybe he’d “LEARN SOMETHING MORE”, apologies for shouting…ahh, and i’m done…

    28. Macart says:

      They are so desperate to sell this ‘vow delivered’ bullshit.

      Well done them for selling people’s futures down the river. (slow clap)

    29. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “What they have done, as far as I can see, is put in place a formula that will allow the Westmonster govt to dictate what tax rate THEY will set for Scotland by raising or lowering the amount of money from the Barnet formula”

      That’s a very good point.

    30. manandboy says:

      I’m made to think of the occasion when Ed Milliband, seizing a photo opportunity, put 2P in a beggars cup.

      Had that been Cameron or Osborne, they would have TAKEN 20% OUT of the cup – with Ian Duncan Smith running along behind taking the rest and declaring them fit for work and not entitled to beg and therefore not entitled to the rewards of begging. Yeah! life as a Tory – taking from the poor, donating to the rich.

      But hey – don’t knock it – 2 million Scots left their brains at home that day, and voted for that kind of oppressive government. This is democracy!

      To the UNINVOLVED – PLEASE do something about it.
      JOIN RIC or SNP or SSP or anybody!

      DO NOT DO NOTHING – you’re children will pay for what we do today and then blame you for being idle while your country became enslaved and riddled with poverty.

    31. liz says:

      The only good about this is that nothing will come from Smith until after the GE therefore we have to work our socks off to get as many SNP into WM as possible otherwise I honestly see no hope for Scotland.

      Our problem apart from the BBC is the Labour t******s.

      We are fighting against the most duplicitous bunch of ne’er-do-wells I’ve ever known in Labour.

      They must hate themselves for being Scottish -they are the ones who suffer from cultural cringe and Jockholm syndrome.

    32. call me dave says:

      George O abolishes APD for all children 12 and under by 2016 in the UK. The Smith commission devolvng APD to Scotland getting nibbled away even before it gets into Westminster.

      The Tories certainly have screwed Scotland and the bonus, (for them) , is that they have screwed Labour too.

      Surely some of he 55% folk must admit to being conned.

    33. Luigi says:

      Faltdubh says:
      Still, as I’ve said numerous times to my SSP and Green pals. Vote SNP next year and I’ll return the favour tactically 2nd vote in 2016

      I’ll sign up for that!

    34. haud on the noo says:

      MajorBloodnok,

      Exactly my question. So we are screwed even more (if at all possible).

    35. Juteman says:

      I was speaking to my elderly parents earlier (Yes voters), and they told me that some of their No voting friends are anything but happy with the ‘Vow’.
      Some folk actually voted No expecting a form of Home Rule.

    36. Juteman says:

      Test

    37. yesindyref2 says:

      So what’t the problem here? The Daily Record’s anagram is “Carry odd lie” after all.

    38. Luigi says:

      call me dave says:

      Surely some of he 55% folk must admit to being conned.

      Only a few, I’m afraid. The majority just don’t care – yet.

      Let’s consolidate what we have before going for another advance. For the GE next year, I think we should focus on the traditional Labour voters who voted YES in September. There are enough of them in the West of Scotland to cause the Red Tories some serious damage.

    39. One_Scot says:

      Can you imagine anyone willingly give their money to the Daily Record.

    40. woosie says:

      When unionists ask me why I support independence, I say because my intelligence goes a bit further than the front page of the DR. Sadly, too many Scots don’t question the headlines; once they’re in the public domain, they’re accepted as gospel. I hope that the many thousands of young Scots who took an interest in the referendum noted the selective, even false, reporting from most papers, and develop their own independent views in a way which most of my generation didn’t.

    41. Art McGuinness says:

      The sooner the Daily Record is recycled for Andrex the better. How anyone can believe what is written in that paper is beyond me, but unfortunately many do. On the plus side its circulation continues to fall.

    42. Andrew Morton says:

      Played golf today with a retired Trade Union leader.

      “Looks as if Jim Murphy will win the leadership election.” says I.

      “In that case, I’m resigning from the Labour Party!” says he.

      He also said that in his opinion, independence is inevitable but that it was important that another referendum isn’t held until a Yes is guaranteed.

    43. Luigi says:

      Juteman says:

      3 December, 2014 at 4:07 pm

      I was speaking to my elderly parents earlier (Yes voters), and they told me that some of their No voting friends are anything but happy with the ‘Vow’.
      Some folk actually voted No expecting a form of Home Rule.

      Tell them to spread the word and kick out the Red Tories next May.

    44. Luigi says:

      woosie says:

      3 December, 2014 at 4:13 pm

      When unionists ask me why I support independence, I say because my intelligence goes a bit further than the front page of the DR. Sadly, too many Scots don’t question the headlines; once they’re in the public domain, they’re accepted as gospel. I hope that the many thousands of young Scots who took an interest in the referendum noted the selective, even false, reporting from most papers, and develop their own independent views in a way which most of my generation didn’t.

      Sad, but true; which is why we ought to focus on consolidation at this stage. The “low hanging fruits” are the YES voters who voted Labour in 2010 (but many of whom actually voted SNP in 2011). If we can persuade enough of them to lend their votes again in 2015, then the Red Tories are in real trouble.

      The NO voters, even the softies, are a much tougher nut to crack – trying to persuade them that the vow has been broken will take much longer, possibly beyond May 2015.

      The Labour YES voters are the key to winning in 2015, not the NO hopers. Forget them for the time being. They will realise they have been duped, but only in their own time. The Labour YES voters are waiting to be persuaded to vote SNP next year.

    45. Les Wilson says:

      I think even devoted readers of the dwindling Record, are by now,discounting the headlines the put out, a shufty at the front page then walking past the bundle on the shelves.

    46. yesindyref2 says:

      For the GE I think a simple short leaflet, something like:

      After the referendum, the VOW promised extensive new powers for Scotland, called by some “Home Rule”, “Devo-Max” or “Federalism”. Devo-Max is supported by two-thirds of people in Scotland, and would devolve a balanced package of revenue raising powers, as well as the powers to spend them. Revenues from all sources must be balanced so that if one falls as Income Tax revenues did for the UK prior to the Autumn budget, other revenue sources such as VAT can compensate for the shortage of the other revenue.

      The following table shows a list of powers that would amount to Devo-Max, and whether these powers are allowed by the Unionist parties to actually be devolved.

      (then the usual product comparison table with ticks and crosses, e.g.)

      Income Tax Tick Tick
      VAT Tick Half
      National Insurance Tick Cross
      etc.

      The Unionist parties – Conservatives, Liberal Democrats AND Labour, are only prepared to devolve the inadequate powers in the second column. The SNP (YES Alliance) will fight for those powers to be devolved, but also for the full package of revenues and powers amounting to the extensive powers promised, and powers needed to make Scotland’s finances balanced.

      If you want extensive powers to be devolved to Scotland, vote SNP (or whatever).

      The word “Unionist” may not be a good one to use.

    47. Valerie says:

      Don’t know if this is just hitting me between the eyes, but I actually felt tears pricking reading this. Tears for what this country might have been, and for what we now will be for daring to ask for parity.

      I am an ordinary person, like so many, and many worse off than me, but it is the staggering dishonesty to the electorate, I find so upsetting, and disgusting.

      There is no Code of honour or truth that appears to bind politicians, and newspapers, which is so ugly.

    48. yesindyref2 says:

      Valerie
      Strangely enough as I was just making a cup of tea with a half price yellow-stickered pecan plait rather than the usual Tunnocks teacake, celebrating hopefully having turned a sudden business product disaster into an instant recovery, I was thinking the same thing.

      But then I thought we’ve been waiting as a country for 307 years, as individuals many of us 40 years plus, what’s another 2 or 3 years at most? In which time the oil price and revenues should have recovered as Russia is solved one way or another, US fracking becomes more expensive, and hopefully the word economy revives, even though that may well leave the stupid austerity no-growth UK behind.

      And hopefully all the Devo-Max voters will see that not only will Westminster not deliver Devo-Max, but the Unionist parties will never even ask for it. That will be 66% YES then, and more.

    49. Nana Smith says:

      @Valerie

      Agree with all you say. My head hurts and my heart aches for our beautiful country.

    50. Andy-B says:

      The sooner the Daily Record goes the same way as the News of the World the better for us all.

      The unionist and London owned Daily Record will in my opinion be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

      No such accolade will be afforded to Foote, and his minion Crichton.

    51. Scotspine says:

      Shouldn’t there be two words at the end of the Records assertion?…….f@ck all.

    52. Valerie says:

      @Nana Smith, most of us genuinely try to avoid dishonesty, apart from the odd fib, saying your friends new hair colour is lovely, to avoid hurt feelings.

      I REALLY don’t know how people entrusted by the electorate, or paid decent money as a journalist can lie on such a scale, and still sleep at night.

    53. donald anderson says:

      As a huge fan of Nichola Sturgeon and co I was disappointed to see them pander to the Unionist cabal by suspending the Renfrewshire Councillors for what was in effect a mild protest at Devo Mince.

      Remember, when the Disgraceful Articles of Union was signed in a cellar in Parlaiment House, because of the angry crowds rioting outside, copies of the hated Treaty were burnt at every Mercat Cross in Scotland. In Glasgow where a local Minister urged the crowd to be up and anent for the City of God. General Wade was ordered to move from Eglinton Toll to quell the rioters.

      Where the Forces of the Crown, or police, when the NO campaign loyalists were given the Freedom of the City to attack peaceful protestors and burn Saltires in Glasgow? What did any Labour MPs have to say about the Nazi behaviour of their Loyalist allies, many from Ulster and England?

    54. Croompenstein says:

      @Nana –

      My head hurts and my heart aches for our beautiful country

      You’re not alone Nana I can’t get over it my heart is broken for Scotland, for those who went before, for us and for those still to come. Hopefully the Yes Generation will keep the flame alive.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQOuyP1pCJc

    55. Albaman says:

      When will this new paper “The National “. Have the balls to take the likes of the Record on,
      Or do these reporters all, after work adjourn to their favourite water-hole to compare notes,and therefore it becomes a jolly club!.
      Let’s hope that the National will break the mold, and do as Stew does, really ,really,take any paper which prints an article that is not factual, and is misleading, make it front page news!.

    56. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Nana et al –

      Getting wee ‘moments’ like that is allowed, and a lot of us probably haven’t done it properly.

      Just wait friends – the morning of May 8th, right through the night, the Murphys and Carmichaels, Alexanders and Wilsons will hear us roar, and this time round? there’s no big beasts left to save them.

      Twenty-two weeks and two days from now, it’s Labour’s Scottish Branch Black Friday, and EVERYTHING MUST GO!

    57. Lesley-Anne says:

      The longer this goes on and the longer we have to wait for the crumbs of the Fudge Commission Report to FINALLY arrive at the front door of Holyrood then the MORE we all have to do to keep the NON appearance of ANY new powers to the fore.

      As everyone on this site, others sites are also available 😉 , knows all too well, we are NOT getting one penny more from Westminster or any where. We MUST keep the pressure up on ALL unionists and especially the lying two faced hypocrites who call themselves journalists!

      We can NOT allow any one from the massed ranks of the unionist lying machine, MP’s MSP’s BBC MSM etc, get away any longer with their day to day lying and outright deceit of the Scottish public. Everyone must be reminded until they are blue in the face of the LIES constantly being perpetrated by this bunch of criminals!

    58. yesindyref2 says:

      I think The National should just keep going to establish itself as a mainstream newspaper, and ignore the others.

      The best thing it can do is get read by those who can be persuaded, while keeping the support of the 45%.

    59. Brian Fleming says:

      You nationalists just can’t stop bullying innocent journalists simply doing their job, can you? The job, of course, is to spread lies and disinformation about Scotland’s position in the “most successful union in the history of the world”. I mean, how dare you?

    60. Stoker says:

      faltdubh says @ 3.49pm:
      “Still, as I’ve said numerous times to my SSP and Green pals. Vote SNP next year and I’ll return the favour tactically 2nd vote in 2016. If the 1.6 million or the bulk of us keep engaged, even better join a pro-indy party, or even, just turn out on the first Thursday in May for the General Election and take 10 minutes to vote SNP.”

      I see and agree with your logic in this.
      If all participants following this agreement stayed true to their word we would certainly achieve our aims.

      Can i also remind folk of a very important point we must never forget between now and after our elections in 2016.

      At the referendum, if all the sources are to be believed, one of THE biggest Yes voting groups were the 16/17-year olds.

      We will NOT have the backing of anyone from that age group at the 2015 elections due to them not being able to vote.

      And there is no guarantee that we will have that age group backing us at the 2016 elections due to the same reason.

      We must not take anything for granted and aim to work our socks off with this fact uppermost in our minds.

      They may not be allowed to vote but we should make sure they are made to feel included by getting them out there working and canvassing with us. Its their future – get them involved.

      We can do it but we need to earn it.

      http://www.indyscot.info/details.php?ref=110

    61. 1AlanM says:

      The budget may increase as a result of the welfare devolution, but whilst the headline figure may be larger the responsibilities have also increased and the additional funds are already accounted for.

    62. derek hannon says:

      albaman thats what ive been writing for past days there playing the game but not walking the walk afraid to upset the apple cart they need to take the dr to task

    63. Vronsky says:

      The Record did publish a retraction. It was in the crossword. Here it is:

      6 down: What we said on the front page was a? (7,3)
      Letters you have already: F—ki– L-e

    64. Grouse Beater says:

      Donald Anderson:
      As a huge fan of Nichola Sturgeon and co I was disappointed to see them pander to the Unionist cabal by suspending the Renfrewshire Councillors for what was in effect a mild protest at Devo Mince.

      Agreed. The incident had been handled well by her minister earlier in the day. NS stamping her authority on junior officers is out of date. It only inflammed the issue… but times have changed. The vast rank and file, many there for direct action and sustained protest, won’t accept that sort of headmistress rule.

    65. Grouse Beater says:

      Valerie:
      I actually felt tears … Tears for what this country might have been, and for what we now will be for daring to ask for parity.

      Stay strong. 🙂

    66. faolie says:

      Cameron’s on a roll to stuff it to Labour and he’s got the support of MPs and the MSM to do it. Of course it’s at our expense but he doesn’t care because he doesn’t need our votes

    67. ENTERNAMEHERE says:

      Lets try a different approach to this. We need to play them at their own game.

      If we all go around saying that we are “all going to be rich” as a result of the doubling of the Scottish budget (As per this article), it will only be a matter of time before a national paper publishes the TRUTH in an attempt to put out our camp fire. Because we all know how much rUK loves to correct us.

      *Off to check Autotrader for Lamborghini prices*

    68. Anne Meikle says:

      Basically, we still have exact same problem we had before the referendum. Unionist media telling lies distorting and manipulating the truth, with no comeback. And even now we have a daily paper, how can we get people to actually buy it or read it online? How can we reach those who don’t want to be reached?



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