The lesser of two stupids
Let’s start off by losing some more friends. This site has no time for the Gaelic lobby. The obsolete language spoken by just 0.9% of Scotland’s population might be part of the nation’s “cultural heritage”, but so were burning witches and replacing Highlanders with sheep and we don’t do those any more either.
Being multilingual is an excellent thing, but the significant amount of time and effort taken to learn a literally-pointless second language (because everyone you can talk to in Gaelic already understood English) would be vastly better directed to picking up one that was actually of some use, and every extra fraction of a second spent scanning a road sign trying to find the bit you can read is a fraction of a second spent with your eyes off the road.
Non-primary native languages are a tool whose main utility in practice is at best the exclusion of outsiders, and at worst an expression of dodgy blood-and-soil ethnic nationalism. They’re a barrier to communication and an irritation to the vast majority of the population, who are made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land.
But we’d still rather put up with Gaelic than complete idiots making our laws.
Jackson Carlaw is the Deputy Leader of the Scottish Conservatives, the party’s health spokesman, and its former chairman. He was castigated for making a series of racist jokes at a party event in 2005, but also objected to the golden eagle being made Scotland’s official bird last year because it was a “fascist” symbol.
Last night he tweeted the picture above, which is taken from a Facebook page called “SMASH the SNP” and populated by the sort of demented knuckle-draggers that you’d expect to populate a Facebook page called “SMASH the SNP”.
Its central allegation – that the Scottish Government has spent £26 MILLION painting Gaelic names on road signs in some parts of the country, presumably using paint made from crushed diamonds and unicorn fur – is so fatuously, obviously stupid that you wouldn’t even expect to see it in the Daily Record.
Oh.
£26m is in fact roughly £3m more than the entire annual budget for ALL Gaelic-related activities in Scotland under the six-year Gaelic National Language Plan, including the TV station BBC Alba (which accounts for almost half of the sum – £12.8m – by itself and does a valuable job even for English speakers, broadcasting lower-league football and minority sports like shinty, albeit most viewers can’t follow the commentary).
The government body charged with promoting the language, the Bòrd na Gàidhlig, has an annual budget of just £5.1m. Independent research suggests that such investment actually pays for itself in terms of various benefits to the economy.
Bilingual roadsigns weren’t instigated by the SNP as part of its dastardly obsession with inculcating separatism, but by the first Labour/Lib Dem administration in 2003 in the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act, which set out “the status of the Gaelic language as an official language of Scotland commanding equal respect to the English language”. It was passed by the second Labour/Lib Dem government in 2005, and subsequently enthusiastically backed by many of Carlaw’s Tory colleagues.
“I come from a party that, as Ted Brocklebank rightly said, has given considerable support to Gaelic in the past. The Scottish Conservatives have always understood that Gaelic is an essential part of our heritage and, indeed, our social fabric.” – Liz Smith MSP (Mid Scotland and Fife)
Alasdair Morrison was right. I am proud of previous Conservative ministers, such as Malcolm Rifkind and Michael Forsyth, who knew the value of the Gaelic heritage and wanted not to lose it but to encourage it.” – Jamie McGrigor MSP (Highlands and Islands)
Indeed, Carlaw stood for election on a manifesto in 2011 which said that the Scottish Tories “remain committed to the promotion of the Gaelic language and culture”.
The actual total budget for “Gaelic road signs” is not £26m but £2m, and in reality is just the budget for roadsigns generally – Gaelic names will only be added when signs are due to be replaced anyway, making the real cost effectively zero. (The same thing previously happened with railway-station signs.)
We might not be fans of Gaelic, but we’re a great deal more concerned that honking buffoons prone to parroting idiotic drivel from internet nutcases should somehow have found themselves in senior positions in the Scottish Parliament.
Should Scottish Labour implode any further (as well they might) and should – Heaven forbid, of course – some dreadful accident befall Ruth Davidson, Jackson Carlaw could plausibly be the leader of the Holyrood opposition this time next year.
That fact that that important job could be in the hands of a thunderingly witless moron is a far more serious problem for Scotland than spending a couple of quid on a small (and actually self-financing) cultural indulgence for a minority.
And an arse was handed his on a plate!
Journalism, don’t you just love it.. ;D
Rev.
As sad as it is to me to see another attack on Gailic it’s no worse than the state sponsored beatings of children that I had and witnessed as a child. Growing up in the highlands in the 70/80’s school was a tirade of English. Now I come from the ‘non’ Gaelic speaking East Highlands one of the parts we are told does not speak the language.
And I have to say that with the hard work done by the church and education system all the way up until recent times they’ve almost succeeded in killing off the language.
But how much when I returned recently did it warm my very being to hear adults and children talking in Gaelic in shops again.
English has always felt like an uncomfortable necessity to me and I understand I am very much in the minority.
I am raising my own bairns speaking as I was, a mixture of languages at all times and I teach them that their language is not english even if they need to speak it.
The Scotrail side of things is just as interesting
link to scot-rail.co.uk
I now think I know why Kilwinning is a bit of a blue-nose area too. (about half-way down the list)
Not losing a friend, but intrigued – should migrants who learn English stop speaking their native language once they’ve learned English? Why belittle those for whom Gaelic is the native language? And if you accept its place in culture and history, then is there not an argument that consigning it to history loses the true understanding/nuance of that language? there are people more eloquent than I at explaining the importance of Scots and Gaelic in current culture and the two I know best speak neither as their first language. Presumably neither are welcome here now?
I’m more sympathetic to learning Gaelic. The amount of people who speak it is somewhat irrelevant, it is part of Scottish culture and history and if people wish to explore that then I wish them success and personal satisfaction in the pursuit.
Learning a langauge can be an enjoyable experience and although I have no intention of learning Gaelic myself, to those who do I wish good luck.
This £26m spent on translating seems a bit steep. (Yes, I know, I know, its the Daily Record).
Could they not just have used this website?
link to gaelicplacenames.org
If the objection is to spending money on larger bilingual sign, let’s just make them monolingual, with community councils, or full councils deciding which language to be used.
Now what’s the Doric for Balmoral?
It’s good to see consistency in the Unionist strategy “trow enough mud and some will stick”
Keep it up guys and gals you’re doing a great job.
Come on Stu. You make some valid points in the second half of your article so why spoil it by a deliberate and unnecessary anti-Gaelic rant that feeds into what effectively amounts to the anti-Gaelic racism of the British state, first instituted in response to the 17th century Jacobite rebellions?
Many people in the Highlands and Islands regard Gaelic as their first language and use it that way.
Like it or not it is part of our national heritage.
To say that is should just be killed off and forgotten about (which is what would happen if all funding for it was withdrawn) is no better than what has happened to the temples of Palmyra – after all those were built for people whose language, religious belief and way of life are long gone so what’t the problem with blowing them up?
The logic is no different to saying that Gaelic should just shut up and die.
A hae naethin agin Gaelic, but, whilst ah canna speak it richt, ah can unnerstaun Lallans or Lowland Scots,the auld Scots leid.
If the Tuechters are to be mollified by Gaelic road signs, why cannot we Lowlanders have a wee bit more attention paid to th language of Burns?
As for Jackson Carlaw – his native language is surely Erse, or, is that what he speaks out of?
While this article is good to see [anything which dispels the myths of Gaelic expenditure is always good] it is sad to see that you are of the mindset that Gaelic is a waste of time, money and air.
Gaelic is much more than just words on a road sign [which, by the way, have been found to be 100% safe by a 2 year long study by Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government]. Gaelic may only be spoken by around 1% of the population [some 2% have Gaelic language abilities], but that doesn’t make it any less important than French or German.
To pick up directly on the bilingualism point, children who learn Gaelic at school are much more likely to learn other languages and actually succeed, in comparison to those who only speak English. Plus, speaking Gaelic opens up lots of opportunities in Scotland that would otherwise not be accessible. Foreign languages are great, but only if you will actually go abroad to speak them – otherwise *they* are a waste of learning time. At least you can conduct your life in Gaelic in Scotland – whether that be in a social, official or other capacity. As someone who did study 3 foreign languages at school/Uni I haven’t had the opportunity to use them in Scotland. At all. That, you may say, was a waste of learning time…
“Gaelic is much more than just words on a road sign [which, by the way, have been found to be 100% safe by a 2 year long study by Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government]”
That’s not quite true, as you know. They were found to add to the burden of driving by causing extra distraction, but it was found that people compensated for that by going slower and therefore there ultimately weren’t more accidents. You could say the same thing about making tyres out of lard.
I am a non Gaelic speaker and I have to disagree with you Stu. Scotland is an ancient country and G
I think the language should be maintained. The Gaelic immersion schools have great results and are oversubscribed. But the road signs are a simple and cost effective way to tie us back to our history.
What do I mean by that? Quite simply we get to remember where these names come from before they were “anglizised” and lost their meaning. To add to that for tourists and locals alike it adds a certain sense of the exotic. And since it is free lets keep them. Add to that the fact that parts of the language survive on in the spoken word here and are used for marketing and naming of Scottish products.
Yes it is a fringe, yes it is on life support, but it is our heritage and it can enrich our culture in many ways.
link to facebook.com
Well written, thoughtful, and I have to agree, children with two (or more) languages do better. My daughter being one…
Scottish journalism is p*sh and sh*te mixed together in an old sweaty wool sock and whirled around your head at great speed. You don’t want to be around when that is let go.
“A thunderingly witless moron.” I think you do Jackson Carlaw a disservice with this description, RevStu. Witless he is not, rather he is a reasonably intelligent but typically devious politician.
Just like his colleagues on the Tory benches, Murdo Fraser, Alex Johnstone and Ruth The Merciless, to name but a few, his sole aim is to decry the SNP Government and especially its excellent leader, by any means possible. They never allow facts to interrupt a good SNP-Bad rant.
This is exactly the sort of myth-busting article that made this site such a valuable and well-respected resource. Good work.
@ Jim Thomson 11:16 am
O/T “I now think I know why Kilwinning is a bit of a blue-nose area too. ”
Also home of one who sold Scotland The Earl of Eglington
My grandfather was a native Gaelic speaker with English as his second language; my grandmother was from Glasgu and didn’t have the Gaelic.
However, when my mother was growing up it wasn’t the done thing to speak Gaelic and so my mother never learned the language.
Its a shame that the good Rev takes the view that our native language should be forced out of existence.
There is a vibrant Gaelic culture and I hope that it continues to thrive despite the detractors.
Now, if I only had the gift myself…
On that “smash” page, read the part that says leave the nasty comments to the cybernats, and then go and read their comments on anything.
You know what the really annoying thing is, every single day we have to take this pish knowing there’s F all we can do about it.
[…] The lesser of two stupids […]
‘This site has no time for the Gaelic lobby. The obsolete language spoken by just 0.9% of Scotland’s population might be part of the nation’s “cultural heritage”, but so were burning witches and replacing Highlanders with sheep and we don’t do those any more either.’
Living in a Gaelic speaking part of Scotland, namely the isle of Skye, I spend time every day with native Gaelic speakers for whom the language is most certainly not obsolete – for many of these people, it was their first tongue and they only learned English when they went to school. I don;t think you can compare our national language to burning witches or replacing Highlanders with sheep. The former was generally bad and ill informed practice and now obsolete for good reason and the latter was something that was done to the Highland people along with deliberately quashing and attempting to stamp out their language, culture and music by the same sorts of people who nowadays still wish to keep Scotland under imperial UK rule.
I like Wee Ginger Dug’s take on this:
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
“English has always felt like an uncomfortable necessity to me and I understand I am very much in the minority.”
I’m going to assume that a little-known feature of written Gaelic is NOT HAVING ANY SODDING PARAGRAPH BREAKS.
And the question arises re Mr Carlaw, whit the fuck are we paying his usless researchers for,are these people qualified to do the job.
Hi Stuart. The real enemy is down south at Westminster. I have as little interest in your bigoted rants about the worth of Gaelic as I do in anything you might have to say about the value of golf, the Scottish scenery, whisky, or the architecture in Bath. You are absolutely right to point out the absurdity of the anti-Gaelic funding rants by Jackson Carlaw and others, but in your opening comments you were effectively doing their work for them.
Please keep on message – you are still one of the most effective online forensic critics of the unionist cause, and lang may yer lum reek on that one (that was in Scots by the way, I hope you don’t equally have an issue with that also) – but whilst you have not lost a reader, you did just lose a little bit of this reader’s respect.
Sharing a message is one thing, but how you share it is equally important – and that was quite frankly unnecessary.
It’s a pity that sections of the Labour Libdem lot have suddenly turned on Gaelic because they’ve decided that it doesn’t suit their UKOK agenda and are instead trying to make this into a UK v indy issue instead. Possibly because a hatred of Gaelic was the stance of the London-based tabloid press which they appear to follow blindly or maybe because they can’t stand the fact that Scotland might have some distinct culture of our own that prevents us being an exact replica of rUK.
All they’ve achieved is to create a whole new breed of Britnat zoomers who take great pleasure in displaying utter contempt for Gaelic speakers.
God help you if you were a no voter who supports or speaks Gaelic, you can expect a torrent of abuse from the British Nationalists like Stephen Daisley who are furiously promoting the notion that it’s only Scottish Nationalists who have any interest in the language.
It must be so confusing being a Labour voter in Scotland, a few years ago your party backed Gaelic, now they are telling you that it should be sneered at.
“To say that is should just be killed off and forgotten about (which is what would happen if all funding for it was withdrawn)”
Why? If something’s your first language why do you need money to teach it to your children?
And I didn’t say a thing about withdrawing funding. I made a point of saying, twice, that the expenditure was self-financing.
The main reason English is spoken all over the world, is because one of the first thing the colonists did was to belittle & marginalise the native languages. The same happened in Scotland where Gaelic was the native 1st language. Language is one of the pillars of a nation & why the tories are picking this up again after the referendum. The squashing of our aspirations has started (UK on driving licences for example). I don’t speak Gaelic, but I wish I did.
“The government body charged with promoting the language, the Bòrd na Gàidhlig, has an annual budget of just £5.1m. Independent research suggests that such investment actually pays for itself in terms of various benefits to the economy.”
Or about £1.00 per person per year to help promote and protect a very important part of Scotland’s cultural heritage. And one to which the British state (which Scotland still remains part of for the time being at least) has committed itself to protecting through its adherence to the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages.
Some extracts from the recitations in that Charter:
“Considering that the protection of the historical regional or minority languages of Europe, some of which are in danger of eventual extinction, contributes to the maintenance and development of Europe’s cultural wealth and traditions;
Considering that the right to use a regional or minority language in private and public life is an inalienable right conforming to the principles embodied in the United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and according to the spirit of the Council of Europe Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms”
link to conventions.coe.int
‘Its a shame that the good Rev takes the view that our native language should be forced out of existence.”
Don’t put words in my mouth, whatever language you want to do it in.
All of the place name here (rural Aberdeenshire) are Gaelic. So I’m in favour of supporting the language and encouraging people to understand it. Otherwise we are effectively “deracinated”. The early Irish independence movement started up language and literary societies to preserve their culture.
Nazis, on the other hand, are reported to believe, “Whenever I hear the word culture I reach for my gun”, actually the words of a Nazi playwright and poet laureate.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Strange that Jackson Carlaw is so confused.
One major reason that Gaelic became almost extinct was courtesy of a number of British Acts of Parliament, which exacted custodial sentences upon Scots for the criminal behaviour of wearing tartan.
The Dress Act 1776 came under the Act of Proscription also in 1746, part of a plan to assimilate the Scottish Highlands & crush the Clan system.
I’m not defending the clan system but it is important to understand why English became our dominant language. It was legislated thus & then hammered home at schools for decades that Gaelic was for idiots.
And instead of sitting on your arse munching Space Raider crisps, you might want to pick up an ordnance survey map of any part of highland Scotland.
Most summits, ridges, hollows, slopes, crags, lochans, cliff tops, islands, islets, inlets, rivers, streams, springs are still identified in Gaelic.
And nothing jars the ear more than some half arsed attempt by some day tripper from Surrey trying to describe his epic descent in a blizzard from Stob Coir’an Albannaich or Bràigh Coire Chruinn-bhalgain.
Of course, we could just obliterate the language completely to make it easier for Londoners to brag to their chums how spiffy their trip to Scotland was.
Me? I’m for sticking every Gaelic word I can firmly up their arse. As the Irish might say if I’ve got the spelling correct, “bata sé suas do thóin!”
Just because we rightly lose some traditions, such as witch burning, keeping slaves, not giving women the vote for hundreds of years and also until 1999 not having a parliament, doesn’t mean that all traditions have to be lost. A Scotland without traditions such as music, language, dance, art and history would be a rather soul less place. Welcome to 1984. Gaelic, like tourism generates more £’s for the Scottish economy than is invested so it is a net gainer for the economy. Do you not think that having road signs in their original language rather than a corruption is a good thing? How about people having a sense of identity because they understand the cultural roots and foundations of modern Scotland. How about a nation that can actually pronounce its own placenames, hill names, geographic features to a level that isn’t an embarrassment? Noone speaks like Robert Burns either, maybe we should ban him too?
McDuff: I am a non Gaelic speaker and I have to disagree with you Stu. Scotland is an ancient country.
I agree in toto. You can apply the same argument against aborigines, let them have their freedoms … within limits, but who cares about their language or art?
On the gross exaggeration of money spent on Gaelic signs, 26 million will be the myth from now on. That’s how black propaganda works. The other side will keep repeating it until enough of the population think there’s truth in it.
We shouldn’t forget that one major impetus for the The Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act was actually the Westminster Government signing up to the EU charter on minority and regional languages.
Also, while we’re on the subject, although I’m a deal more sympathetic to the language and its speakers than the good Rev Stu it appears, any notion that Gaelic is or ever was the one true native language of Scotland is a complete myth – a falsehood with no basis at all in the linguistic history of these lands.
So is he going to get all annoyed about Wales having their road signs in Welsh ?
Yea more SNP bad even on stuff they didnt start lol
I have no problem with Gaelic being used in our road signs even if i have no idea what it means and its not like its new as mountains and lochs still have Gaelic names.
Though i am of the conclusion its a bit of a waste of time trying to teach it in our schools they would be much better teaching the kids Mandarin imo.
And this language we use today is not English its a bastardization of all the languages spoken and written on these islands with some European influence it just kept the name English,though i am surprised the yanks havnt claimed they invented it and it should be called American.
£26 million?
That’s almost as much as the BBC spends on Scottish broadcasting.
Out of the BBC’s annual income of £4000 millions a mere £100 million or so is spent in Scotland and out of that figure £70 million is spent on ”national” TV programmes like Homes under the Hammer and lottery game shows leaving only £30 million available for Scottish programmes.
link to thenational.scot
Surely these Gaelic road signs are of interest to tourists. Anything that can make Scotland a more interesting tourist destination gets my vote it’s not as if we can offer sun, sand sea and sex.
All these fans of Outlander who are flooding to Scotland will love the Gaelic signs.
If the Gaelic signs make people feel like uncultured aliens in their own land and leads them to find out more that must be a good thing.
Parroting the rhetoric of post-colonial monoglots. Thought better of you, Stu. Really did.
The Gaelic language issue has become a bit of a political hot potato, especially with the “United Against Separation” type of reader.
They, UAS, and their ilk, positively and absolutely detest anything that is seen as remotely Scottish.
UAS and many a No supporter are in fact suffering from a chronic dose of The Scottish Cringe.
You just need to view their Facebook page to get the picture. The opposition to Gaelic is yet another manifestation of this malignancy that infests a significant part of the Scottish electorate.
And for that reason, the promotion of Gaelic needs to be encouraged because it serves a very real purpose in highlighting to Scots that they have been the victims of a kind of Cultural Cleansing in their own land.
When I see the bitterness exhibited through social media by the likes of UAS and similar, my immediate reaction is anger, then sadness, because these people are poorly informed, culturally ignorant and angry. They see Scotland, the idea of Scotland and Scottishness as a threat.
Whether it is Gaelic, Lowland Scots, Scottish Music, Art or Literature, it’s met with the same reaction – open hostility, anger, insult and rejection.
Their chosen Britishness, as a cultural trait within Scotland, is a kind of mass brainwashing, deliberately perpetrated by a powerful, London-centric machine. It’s been in operation for centuries. Yet they are lucid enough to see the promotion of all things Scottish as a threat; just look at their reaction to a few road signs. If they were confident in their Britishness and that their British Culture was firmly rooted in Scotland, then you wouldn’t see this bitter reaction to it. Britishness is in fact tissue thin and they, the BritNats, know it.
I’m sure many of my generation (pushing 50) will recall the lack of education in Scottish history and culture in school. Thankfully I had some enlightened history teachers (take a bow The Man from Orkney and The After School Football Coach for the under 15s wherever you are). I like to refer to these people as the “Few”. They were a light in the darkness. Now that light has grown in intensity over the past several years, and very welcome it is as well.
So please support the Gaelic road signs, because if it’s getting this sort of reaction from the BritNats, then you know it has to be a good thing.
Mr Carlaw speaks one language fluently that’s for sure.
Neatly skewered.
I though, would feel sad if we simply allowed a language to die.
Sorry Stu but as an English speaker I have to disagree with you. When Wales started agitating for support for their own national language there were few Welsh speakers. They’ve since made huge strides in it’s use by introducing Welsh lessons into schools. Adverts for teachers etc ask for Welsh speaking candidates. Go anywhere in North Wales & you will hear Welsh being spoken.
Cornwall is another case-when I lived there, Cornish speakers were rare but it has improved since & hopefully will continue to grow.
Language is an integral part of a country’s culture & shouldn’t be allowed to die off or be deliberately crushed into oblivion as the English govt/overlords did.It’s actually a very healthy sign of a vibrant nation to see it being used & lessons advertised for non-speakers of the Gaelic.
Schools are reporting being oversubscribed & that indicates not just a growing interest in the language but also a growing interest in the history & customs/folklore of Scotland which was suppressed for so many years.
I see that as a very good thing to be encouraged. Yes it may cost a bit of money but when you consider that Osbo yesterday chucked £500m at Trident, this is miniscule. I know which I’d rather see happen & it won’t cost £500m.
“And nothing jars the ear more than some half arsed attempt by some day tripper from Surrey trying to describe his epic descent in a blizzard from Stob Coir’an Albannaich or Bràigh Coire Chruinn-bhalgain”
Or, indeed, people born and bred in Scotland.
OK Stu you have no time for Gaelic but a lot of people do and I would suggest that the majority of people in Scotland support it. Some of us even take the trouble to learn it.
Please don’t piss on a part of your own culture.
“When Wales started agitating for support for their own national language there were few Welsh speakers. They’ve since made huge strides in it’s use by introducing Welsh lessons into schools. Adverts for teachers etc ask for Welsh speaking candidates. Go anywhere in North Wales & you will hear Welsh being spoken.”
Great. What a total waste of everyone’s time that was.
How fucking dare you tell me that the language of my home, of my young family, of my workplace, of my ancestors for the last 2000 years is obsolete. Just because it’s a linguistic world that you’re not party to doesn’t make it redundant. There are fewer speakers of Irish. Should we just tell all Irish speakers to shut up as they’re wasting their time? Or what about the Netherlands? 95% of them can speak pretty reasonable English. Why not tell them to stop being so obstructive by having the temerity to speak their own language when they could jump aboard the English mono-culture bus. Get a fucking grip.
“How fucking dare you tell me that the language of my home, of my young family, of my workplace, of my ancestors for the last 2000 years is obsolete.”
Because (a) it is, and (b) it’s my website and I dare anything I damn well like on it.
O/T
The ‘The People Versus Carmichael’ team just posted:
1 new Announcement:
STV has announced that it will be carrying the case live next week – you will be able to watch ‘the People versus Carmichael’ as it happens.
Whilst I don’t have the Gaelic, I like the dual place names on roadsigns and so long as it costs next to nothing to add the names when signs are changed then what’s the problem?
Many burns, mountains, crofts and moors bear witness to a vibrant Scottish past and live on despite (or maybe because of) the Ordnance Survey. It is enriching and I hope it does flourish.
In a wider context, perhaps their should be a greater drive to educate our youngsters to take up a second language such as French, German or Spanish but that is not to say that Gaelic does not have a place. Like Welsh, Breton or Catalan these languages provide a rich source of diversity. English is after all a bastard language that quite happily plagerises other languages.
As for the stupid and ill informed comments from Smash the SNP, joyfully repeated by that rag that shall not be named, they can spout all the crap they want. Come the day, we shall be free!
N
Careful now! The British State normally recognises only two languages: English and Welsh.
An attack on Gaelic we do not need!
Then again , if it’s learnt as a parallel language, it doesn’t take any extra time or effort at all. Perhaps that’s why almost all the rest of Europe can speak pretty good english and can adapt to other languages easily while we are so poor at it.
“(because everyone you can talk to in Gaelic already understood English)” You could take Gaelic out of that sentence and replace it with any Language , I mean Why bother learning German when any German you are likely to meet already speaks English.
“who are made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land”
Aw diddums rev. Who exactly has been made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land over the centuries Rev? Who has been marginalised, had a propaganda war raged against them where the culture has been deemed archaic, pointless, savage etc.? Who had centrist British legislation passed against their language? Which language was excluded from all officialdom so that those being evicted or whatever have had to get this translated for them in the country they grew up in speaking a language passed on by their mother?
I take it you want rid of all other barriers to communication like regional accent or that other language Scots? Should we all speak the ‘Queen’s English? A type of BBC 1950’s language? Force all immigrants to speaK
“Aw diddums rev. Who exactly has been made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land over the centuries Rev? Who has been marginalised, had a propaganda war raged against them where the culture has been deemed archaic, pointless, savage etc.?”
It’s remarkable how attached people are to being oppressed hundreds of years ago.
“Whilst I don’t have the Gaelic, I like the dual place names on roadsigns and so long as it costs next to nothing to add the names when signs are changed then what’s the problem?”
Other than the thing mentioned in the second paragraph, nothing. Which is why I went to the trouble of writing an article debunking the myth that £26m had been spent on it.
Rev Stu said: Should Scottish Labour implode any further (as well they might) and should – Heaven forbid, of course – some dreadful accident befall Ruth Davidson, Jackson Carlaw could plausibly be the leader of the Holyrood opposition this time next year.
It is clearly no coincidence that Prof Tomkins is being lined up for a safe list seat in Glasgow then.
Allowing for the inglorious part played by the Campbell’s in suppressing Gaelic & the Gael (even worse than Kaye Adams), one would think that this is a subject best avoided by any Campbell whatsoever. A tribe of Campbell lawyers with their quills & eviction notices eventually managed what their clansmen never could on the field, they were pish wi the claymore anyhow as Inverlochy so eloquently confirmed!
Suas na Gael.
“You could take Gaelic out of that sentence and replace it with any Language , I mean Why bother learning German when any German you are likely to meet already speaks English.”
Because that statement is a load of horsebollocks.
link to en.wikipedia.org
I’m fed up hearing these all these whining Gaelic incomers complaining.
Nobody at all, not even me, speaks Pictish!
Alongside the Irish, the Welsh and Bretons, Scottish Gaelic culture is a glorious worldwide phenomena, through the US, Canada, New Zealand. Naturally here in their Scotland region, red and blue tory britnats now detest all of it.
I totally swallowed Daily Record liars thing on £26 million for road signs but they have been routinely bashing out that one fraud a lot lately.
One hard core ukok unionist misery guts always sticks out from rancid The Guardian
link to theguardian.com
Rancid Graun says it’s all just a lot of Gaelic pish in a more and more annoying region of their UKOK land but patiently, they will allow some it at least-
“More materially, it helps the tourist trade by rewarding visitors with the sense of the difference that all tourists seek; Mackay says the translated Gaelic menus in his local Indian restaurant in Inbhir Nis (Inverness) vanish for this very reason.
But I feel saddened by it. What I remember of Cardonald is the old Flamingo ballroom and council estates that were well thought of. To me, Cair Dhòmhnaill is a kind of instruction to focus on a far more distant history, like one slice of a many-banded core sample pulled from the earth, which has an arguable usefulness, and may very well be false.”
I know its hard to see the value of Gaelic from the central belt, far less from Bath.
The saddest thing I have ever seen is a people unable to pronounce or understand the names of the places, roads, hills, towns and villages that they live amongst because the ethnic and cultural cleansing has been so complete.
Anyone care to dance a spey valley ?
Gaelic may not be the language of all Scotland, but it should not be killed off by either plan nor neglect.
A good time to ask friends of Gaelic to support the campaign for more Gaelic on the Gaelic channel. Sadly BBCAlba is becoming very fond of English broadcasting.
link to twitter.com
I disagree with you on Gaelic, especially as in the second part of your article you point out that investment is actually far lower, is basically neutral economically, and has wider community benefits. I enjoyed Eorpa, a Gaelic language programme on BBC Alba that covered little known events in Europe, and was far superior to the drivel served up by BBC Scotland. Far from being inward looking, Eorpa was quite the opposite and was very informative.
When you learn another language, you enter into the soul or persona of another culture group. This is part of what is important about language learning as a branch of the humanities. Gun canaan, gun ceanteadh – No language, no nation. Gaelic sensibility has thus shaped the mindset of the Scots even if we no longer speak it. Gaelic was spoken over most of central and NE Scotland until relatively recently.
Gaelic has no words for Yes or No, you reply affirmatively or negatively by repeating the verb in the question. It also expresses time and action differently, by use of the verbal noun, which it brought into English, a non-Teutonic feature. There is thus a concept of continuous time and of action as existing abstractly and independently of any actor. If you want to say, I have to wash the floor, you say ‘it is at me to be at its washing’.
Some of the finest poetry ever produced in Scotland is in Gaelic. To cast Gaelic out IS like Isil blowing up Palmyra.
Alistair Carmichael challenge to be broadcast live on internet
link to archive.is
Stu, I think a better analogy from Scottish history to go along with burning witches or replacing Highlanders with sheep, is the relentless campaign to destroy Gaelic.
I believe it began with James VI who insisted the heirs of Highland chiefs were sent to the Lowlands to receive education in English.
Post Culloden proscription, Clearances, the Kirk, the schools, the British State, have taken Scotland in just 250 years from a position where half of Scots spoke Gaelic to where we are today.
WoS shouldn’t get on that particular bandwagon.
Ach c’mon!
Tourists love this stuff.
It all adds to the magic.
The less those daan sath understand us the better!.
Here’s a website I put together dealing with the main anti-Welsh arguments. Disppointed to see so many of them repeated here re: Gaelic, and many of the same responses apply.
link to whywelsh.wordpress.com
Nice bit of debunking there Rev, thanks. Got to disagree on the value of Gaelic though.
I’m all for supporting Gaelic. I don’t think the primary purpose of a language is to exclude others. Rather I think it is an expression of diversity of culture.
If you feel excluded when others around you are speaking a language you cannot understand and that annoys you, then maybe you ought to stop being so damn lazy, open your mind and learn some of it.
Many of the “incomers” to the Highlands and Islands are having their kids taught Gaelic because they understand its significance to their new land. So there’s your “blood and soil” argument shot right there.
The argument that everyone can speak English “so what’s the point in learning Gaelic” doesn’t wash for me either. Every language is a unique way of communicating meaning. Talking to someone in any language is a complex process full of subtleties and those subtleties often cannot be translated into another language.
I’m teaching my kids English and other languages. With every new word their world expands. Anyone who would wish a language dead (including Gaelic) is quite simply anti- civilization.
Lots of us speak Gaelic we just don’t know that we do, many words in common usage are directly from that language and even the English use them today
Now I don’t speak much Gaelic but I also don’t speak any Punjabi or Urdu or Polish, I could go on but you get the point, and by that I mean, we publish many Languages for translations supplied to folk who live in our country for use in the NHS and other services so it would be being a bit much not to supply access to one of our own National languages
In a way, kinda Racist against a minority in, and of our own people
Now wouldn’t the Conservative party just love that, considering that they, in fact are the Racists
” …a literally-pointless second language…”.
That’s the subjective (and, in my opinion, very wrong)statement in an otherwise, as always, excellent article.
How you define whether a language is pointless or not is, I suggest, much more than just whether those using it also understand another language.If that was the case then we might as well do away with Danish and Swedish, as most native users of that language can also communicate in English.
The only thing I want to see made obsolete in Scotland is the Tory party ,.and we are almost there
I do not agree with your view of gaelic, Rev Stu, though many do.
I think the issue is the lies and there was no need to include your view in order to attack those lies. You are entitled to your opinion, and it is admirably transparent to include them. But you are already aware of how that will be reportd, and on your own analysis of what people read (couple of paras) you might profitably have reversed the order. See Twitter
Haste ye nae back then Stu. We can do without bigoted cultural imperialists in the New Scotland after Independence. You sit there in Bath in monoglot ignorance and proud of it.
I’m monoglot too but I’m not a bigot about it. Our eldest’s other half is a Gael frae Skye and he learnt the Gealic as a child. He used to play Shinty too. I bet you consider the televising that to be a pollution of the airwaves.
So Rev your argument regarding languages – that a state central language is usually spoken so ‘local’ languages can be ignored as a waste of time, would apply to many countries
and hundreds of languages.
Each language also represents a culture.
Guess your not adverse to a bit of genocide ?
“Why? If something’s your first language why do you need money to teach it to your children?”
For Christ sake man get a grip. Do you therefore advocate stopping funding for English, French, German, and Latin in our education systems.
As has been said your ill informed opening rant re Gaelic has done the unionists work for them.
America banned the Hawian language in 1896 three years after invading and colonising the place.As a result it is almost extinct as a language.
The banning of Gaelic by the UK was a political act of pure racism, enforced by a fascist dictatorship.
The promotion of Gaelic is an attempt by a pro Scottish instituition to heal some of these wounds.
Travel in the Highlands and Islands and try and understand the place and the people.You will not find much support for your views on our language amongst our people.
It has been shown that children who are fluent in Gaelic and English have no trouble learning other languages and intergrating in to other cultures.
As to you nonsense about wasting time looking at roadsigns for the right name. These signs are made in such a way as to clearly distinguish between the two languages and are easy to read and a source of interest and promotion of our language. If you cannot read the correct information then perhaps you need to consider not driving here as there is obviously something far wrong with your eyesight.
Wales is not far from you, do you have similar views on their culture?
Lots of Welsh language signs in Wales.
Do you have any evidence to support your allegation that multi lingual road signs are a safety issue? Or are you going native?
stu, lad.
we get that you’re not scottish.
but comparing speaking gaidhlig to the clearances is pathetically ignorant.
it may be only 0.9% of the population that speaks it, but didn’t reach such a low number because people were wilfully choosing to switch to english, it reached it because it was policy to actively discourage use of gaelic, at a time where for parents to have the time to teach kids things was becoming less and less common, due to things like the clearances, the industrial revolution, etc.
it’s worth remembering that that 0.9% is start to grow again, we’re starting to see gaelic medium education outside the highlands again, with gaelic highschool available in both edinburgh and glasgow, and gaelic primary schools popping up here and there in the central belt, too.
i’m curious, stu, would you also be telling the catalonians that you think they’re a bit racist for speaking catalonian, or for trying to preserve it?
that is, after all, what you just said about scots who speak gaelic, scots, or doric. that is the implication of saying it’s a tool to exclude outlanders or a facet of blood and soil nationalism, y’know… it’s a sly way to call people racist.
A language spoken by a minority is not “obsolete” – it is a native spoken language. I am use to seeing offensive comments on UKIP sites equating sheep shagging and speaking Welsh, I didn’t expect to see similar sentiments on Wings re the Gaelic language.
What percentage of people in Scotland understand Spanish, French, German, Chinese or any other language that is taught in schools?
I’m all in favour of people learning Gaelic especially if that is something they have chosen to do and where they have the opportunity to speak the language on a daily basis. When you learn a language you also study the history, literature of that language and that must be a good thing or would it be better if people in Scotland didn’t know about Scottish history/literature etc?
Why is money spent on teaching pupils the language of Shakespeare & Chaucer a good thing? What percentage of the population speak/understand the language of Shakespeare? Surely Shakespearean English is a dead language it would be more relevant if pupils were taught the language of Rap.
It doesn’t matter which second language you learn first it makes all subsequent languages a lot easier to learn.
Investing money in people who will have the ability to learn foreign languages with ease is a very good thing.
You can spend 6 years at school learning French but if you never have the opportunity to speak the language you are wasting your time and will probably end up unable to even say ‘Bonjour’ to French tourists.
Do people who learn French make others feel like uncultured aliens in their own land if they don’t speak French.
I have an aunty who is a teacher in Islay and speaks fluent Gaelic. Even her own daughters don’t speak a word of it. We both agree that teaching Gaelic in schools is pointless because there is never any need to use it after the exam. Unless you ban English north of Fort William then Gaelic will never become widely spoken.
Just remembered
Can we not introduce Unionist Burning
They’re Crafty (see what I did there) Crafty, Witches
No, OK I’m off
Steveasaneilean: “You make some valid points in the second half of your article so why spoil it by a deliberate and unnecessary anti-Gaelic rant that feeds into what effectively amounts to the anti-Gaelic racism of the British state, first instituted in response to the 17th century Jacobite rebellions?”
You defend Gaelic, rightly, but then refer to the Jacobite Rising as a Rebellion!!! poor show!
I like to see the signs in gaelic,it costs nil actually as the Rev states,and I’m sure the tourists think it adds something to their experience. It also serves as a reminder that Scotland is diverse.
Most Scots spoke a form of English before the act of union,but feel the language is part of the wider culture just like the music is and the land would be poorer without it. Now gaelic will be popular amongst unionists 🙂
Jackson Carlaw ? Was there not a car sale company in Glasgow called. ” Carlaws ” ? Oh yes, it went bust !
The Rev said “…if it is your first language why do you need money o teach it to your children?”
Yeah well, lets take all the money away from English schooling, pre schooling, books in libraries etc. If English is your first language why should you need any support or money to speak it.
Do you see how this works Rev? Or, is it still one rule for the centrist language and culture…
“Yeah well, lets take all the money away from English schooling, pre schooling, books in libraries etc. If English is your first language why should you need any support or money to speak it.”
How did we manage to pass language down for the thousands of years before schools existed?
I have followed the Wings Over Scotland blogs ever since their inception and have appreciated their sentiment and arguments. However, in the opening paragraph, this racist rant against our native language , which is spoken by all of my family and most of my friends up here in the Highlands,is so reminiscent of the arrogant Philistines who lecture us from London that my faith in WOS is now deeply damaged.I suggest an apology and a bit more experience of parts of your country and its people that you, obviously, know little about.
“I suggest an apology”
Your suggestion is noted.
OT
Didn’t realise this until just now.
link to news.stv.tv
A’ Charaidean,
as Mr. Campbell has no time for Gaidhlig will he anglicise his name to Mr. Squint Mouth?
The purpose of Gaelic signage is to give the language a public presence. Gaelic was once the dominant language of all of Scotland north and west of a line drawn roughly from Gretna to Musselburgh, and was even found in the far south east as well. Gaelic signs remind us all that the English language has never been the only language of Scotland, and make a public statement that the language enjoys respect and support. That’s why they’re there, to remind English speaking Scots that their lazy assumption of English language dominance can and should be challenged, and that’s why members of the Scottish political and cultural establishment object to them.
But more than that, Gaelic and Scots have been marginalised because of the actions of the state, so the state has a duty to ensure that the languages survive. That’s moral restitution, it’s the repayment of a debt. We owe it to our languages, we owe it to ourselves.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Watch your language!
To add some further perspective, the UK Government currently spends over a billion pounds a year promoting English language art and culture.
Your first three paragraphs could have been a direct quote from Carlaw, or any other Scottish Unionist.
Recently in the press the Unionists have been demanding that we should move on, and get back to the politics of running Scotland efficiently. Yet Carlaw is backtracking on a Scot Tory commitment to promote the Gaelic language and the other night Ken Macintosh was backtracking on a devolved BBC.
It would appear that the only priority for the Scottish Unionist party’s is to attack the Scottish cultural identity, no doubt under instruction from their London paymasters.
First time commenter.
Being from Aberdeen I feel I was brought up to believe as a kid that Gaelic was some kind of strange language spoken by weird people from the west coast and that we were outsiders etc.
Over the years, with the increased interest and the opening up of Gaelic culture I have become aware of the general historic anglicization of Scotland. But, I was shocked to read a few years ago, via Tommy Weir I think, that the last Gaelic speaker up Deeside died around 1980! I find that incredible.
Generally speaking though, I think speaking Gaelic is a great thing, and Gaelic writing by poets such as Sorley MacLean have an importance on a European level.
Language is a tool, problem is, language controls us rather than us it.
In general Stu, I find your website and writing sharp and vital but sometimes you have a wee bit of a tabloid almost Daily Mail kind of attitude to stuff, but I guess you like that so it’s fine. The commentators also provide good insight.
Keep up the good work!
I’ve heard that Gaelic language classes are flourishing, particularly among the older generation. Apparently, it helps keep the brain cells operating. Unfortunately, I’ve forgotten where I came across that claim.
Learn Gaelic for your health’s sake!
“made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land” – wtf?
What’s not “blood and soil” about that? Is it “their own land”? or just cultural imperialism from “lowland Scots with English habits”?
Cringeworthy
No need to be a dick. I’m a Gaelic speaker, Lowlander and very much a modern internationalist. I use Gaelic with the kids who also speak two other languages. Despite living on the fringe of Edinburgh, there are loads of local Gaelic placenames – point being I can understand and appreciate my heritage while very much living in the here and now.
I’ve paid taxes for decades now and if I want services and status in my language for myself and my kids then why the France should I not get it? Because we’re a minority of 60k? Not a good argument.
It would be better if WoS actually conceded that learning Gaelic gives us all a much better understanding of who we are. You simply cannot divorce Gaelic and Scottish. Whether you want to learn it or not is up to you. I speak five languages to varying degrees of fluency but it’s Gaelic and English that speak the most to me of who I am.
And as I use it daily and with my kids, it’s very much a part of my future too.
“I’ve paid taxes for decades now and if I want services and status in my language for myself and my kids then why the France should I not get it?”
Nobody said you shouldn’t. The article said the exact opposite of that. Please learn to read.
I’d like to see us ( Pro Independence) not falling out with those who have a chance of casting their votes in our favour.
Wouldn’t it be nice if there was any from of UK media that could report who the real fascists actually are?
Well Done yet again Rev.
Mr Carlaw, former second hand car dealer at Wylies, Glasgow, will be sickened by your response.
It really isn’t cricket for the working classes to retain and refer to the Pish they have organised and promoted in the past.
Life is so much easier for these guys just to throw out rogue figures safe in the knowledge the Daily Redcoat and the BBC will run with it.
Can you imagine the cost of a newspaper or TV license if they had to employ an investigative journalist to check these things In the same manner that the Rev has done on only £20K per annum?
Why is it there are a lot of English people who cannot pronounce loch and instead say lock?
Learning a language with different sounds has got to be a good thing.
I’m just wondering how people who can’t pronounce lock get on with the Spanish jota for example.
Yes I’m 100% in favour on money being spent on Gaelic.
I’m tempted to start some crowd funding in order to pay for some Gaelic lessons for Stuart I bet he would love it!
Not enough money is spent on Gaelic nor Scots.
Let’s have some more cash for our languages please! 🙂
1. The Scottish Government from 1999 to 2007 consisted of a Slab/LibDem coalition.
2. It was in 2001 that the Slab/LibDem Government announced plans to erect bilingual signage along trunk roads in the Highlands.
3. We have established that the SNP were not in power at that time?
4. The government policy is that bilingual roadsigns are only erected when for example, replacing older, perhaps damaged signs and on new or upgraded roads.
5. Due to this policy, the cost to the taxpayer for the gradual replacement of older signs and signage for the occasional new/upgraded road have been and are negligible.
6. Did you get excited and naively believe someone else’s “SNP bad” propaganda or did you pull that £26M figure for road signs out of your own arsehole?
No “SNP BAD” to see here Jackson, jog on.
Also has some royal support
link to news.bbc.co.uk
All I have to say is in the song.
Suas leis a’ Ghàidhlig
link to google.co.uk
Future President Trump’s mum probably spoke Gaelic and here he is getting usual rule britnatia massive boost from Toryboy BBC. Yes I know, the clue’s in the name
link to bbc.co.uk
Hammer of the Scots The Donald isn’t as big a hammer of the Scots like say JK Rowling but he says he loves Scatland and he’ll be good to to his Scatland too, not in that vote Tump BBC blast obviously.
msean says:
1 September, 2015 at 12:31 pm
I like to see the signs in gaelic,it costs nil actually as the Rev states,and I’m sure the tourists think it adds something to their experience.
I agree with that! I did write a comment earlier about it being a tourist attraction especially for the fans of Outlander but that one seems to have disappeared into cyber-space or perhaps I shouldn’t have said anything about the lack of sun, sand, sea & sex in Scotland.
Is the viewing of Outlander still banned in Scotland?
Too much Gaelic perhaps?
Well I would walk 500 miles (804.67 kilometres), climb 1,066.8 metres (3,500 feet), in the soaring Scottish heat of 15 degrees celcius (59 degrees fahrenheit) to demonstrate there is no acceptance of secondary systems.
What brought that rant on? That’s the first time I’ve shaken my head at you Stu. Normally keep that for the threads themselves. Let’s hope it was a one-off.
Thing about the Gaelic was that it wasn’t just banned from being spoken, but the people who spoke it were belittled and made to feel ashamed of their entire culture. I don’t mean in former centuries, but within living memory.
I’m a lowland Scot, and only spent a few years up North, but it was a pleasure to learn how different communities would know where someone came from by their Gaelic accent, something which is difficult to reconcile with Gaelic taught in a classroom.
I was also introduced to Gaelic choir singing. The sound was frankly more like some tribal African community singing, and I had to double-take that this was once a routine part of our wonderful collective culture. I may be wrong, but such choirs, and indeed communities, are perilously close to disappearing, and once gone, there will be no bringing them back.
It’s not just a language. It’s about having a deeper respect and tolerance between ourselves for our cultural diversity. I was never chastised for speaking Gaelic, because I can’t. I was regularly belittled for speaking Doric Scots, and while my accent still runs deep, so the sense runs deep that I’m not speaking “properly”.
If you heard Gaelic sung you could never be critical or disappointed.
Gaelic is not obsolete.
There’s a whole lot of our culture and history in Gaelic which does not appear in English.
The whole purpose of the govt setting out to destroy Gaelic culture was to destroy our history, and brainwash us with the establishment anglo version.
Those who don’t know their history are doomed to repeat it.
‘S i cànain aon de na prìomh phuingean de chòirichean mhic an duine. ‘S ann air a bhun-stèidh sin a thogar ar smuaintean. Tha luach cànain ar dùthcha (nach bi ann ach an seo fhèin), thar luach nam margaidhean ann am Baile Lunnainn uile gu lèir: “Oir ciod an tairbhe a tha ann do dhuine, ged chosnadh e an saoghal uile, agus anam fhèin a chall?”
Sprache ist einer der Schwerpunkte der Menschenrechte. Auf das Fundament der Sprache werden unsere Gedanken alle gebaut. Unsere einheimische Sprache (die nirgendwo anders gesprochen werden) ist mehr Wert als das ganze Zeug auf den Finanzmärkten Londons. ,Was hülfe es dem Menschen, wenn er die ganze Welt gewönne und nähme doch Schaden an seiner Seele?’
As Thomas Paine put it: “Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess.”
???????????????????
Christianity, human rights and Confucian virtues all speak against what you have written about Gaelic. Shame on you!
Ruby says:
1 September, 2015 at 12:46 pm
Why is it there are a lot of English people who cannot pronounce loch and instead say lock?
Learning a language with different sounds has got to be a good thing.
I’m just wondering how people who can’t pronounce lock get on with the Spanish jota for example.
Ooops typo loch not lock.
I’m just wondering how people who can’t pronounce LOCH get on with the Spanish jota for example.
I live in Spain and of course try and learn some Spanish. There are two routes to Spanish…the formal and the informal. The informal comes from road signs, adverts in shop windows, newspaper headlines, leaflets and so on. The formal is head in a book stuff.
Road signs are informal and fit in very well with the regeneration of our old language.
Just to add, coming from a Gaelic background, I found the anti-Gaelic bit extremely offensive. We have a right to our own language in our own country (And that goes for the Doric too).
I want value for money and I understand there are many hungry mouths to be fed but remember, “not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted”.
I wish I could post here in Gaelic – piss GCHQ of big time.
I think I pass as a native Gaelic speaker, my parents and family spoke Gaelic in the house and I learned to speak English to go to School. Sadly there is no one left to speak Gaelic to as my parents are no longer around and I converse with my family in English as it is so long since we have spoken Gaelic properly it has been replaced by English as our first language.
I don’t think the Gaelic road signs are a real issue though I have to say that there is some invention in the Gaelic translations similar to those found in the translation of TV and electricity… stick a “bh” in there and you have it! Perhaps Jackson thinks the road signs are so expensive because they are being painted by Ruth’s “Burly men” in Annan. As there are so few Gaelic speakers left they must be paid a fortune.
I suspect that Gaelic will die out as a language in this country in my lifetime, I don’t even hear it commonly spoken when I go to the Western Isles now. It may survive in Nova Scotia where I understand it is far more commonly spoken in day to day life.
Jackson is very polite but a typical Tory nonetheless, its funny how they don’t like benefits and state funding apart from their own wages, expenses and hobbies. Perhaps if he had been better with his figures there would still be a Fist Ford/Wylie’s and he wouldn’t be living on what I’m sure he would think of as a state hand out if it was going to someone else.
How do these guys who can’t even get the equivalent of the very small numbers of Gaelic speakers to vote for them personally hold so much power and influence. I suppose its another example of the remarkable set of double standards that Jackson and Ruth have frequently displayed.
With English coming 3rd in the list of most spoken languages maybe it is time to get rid of it and all start learning mandarin or Spanish.
It’s all a bastardised dialogue of welsh and irish anyway.
Thing is that whilst it slowly declines in the places where it was spoken it’s been taken up by middle class families as a way to get a slightly better education for their children. It’d be a bit like the americans promoting an “indian” language amongst it’s european language. Kind of the ultimate theft.
On the other hand it may be nothing of the sort as it wasn’t just highlanders on the Stuart side of the ’45. There were lowlanders who chose to adopt tartan as an identifier with the cause.
Add to that the further confusion that, as far as I know, the EU actually gives grants for the promotion of languages and so some of the funding they’re moaning about wouldn’t be available for anything else. If true then replacing road signs becomes far less expensive.
Of course if road signs are that hideously expensive perhaps they’d like to explain why they didn’t give those in charge of them a big heads up before deciding that calling the new mega hospital in Glasgow the Southern General was only a temporary name. Never mind, we can always get someone to come up with the correct title for Liz in the translation.
I have a lot of time for this site, but your anti-Gaelic rant is as ignorant, misinformed and out of order as most of the unionist drivel you spend your days attacking. Get a grip. No one is asking you to support Gaelic, but you don’t have to add fuel to the objectionable forces that opportunities see almost anything related to Scottish culture. You clearly haven’t spent any time living and working in parts of the Highlands and Islands where the language is still spoken on a daily basis at work and at home. Sorry to say, but I may as well have read a copy of the Daily Mail today.
I agree with steveasaneilean (11:24am), Paul Patience (11:15 am) and others.
The attempted annihilation of an entire culture may seem like ancient history and yet it would appear that the strategy of subjugation is very much ongoing, over 250 years later when, in our own lifetime, children have been beaten for using their native tongue.
One of the reasons for banning the language was of course that the English couldn’t understand what the enemy was saying (and wouldn’t countenance the damned inconvenience of learning a subordinate language).
Incidentally, I wasn’t raised in a Gaelic-speaking environment but I do remember being routinely disciplined at school for any deviation from “received pronunciation” – simply for using what I would call “everyday spoken Scottish” – “aye” for example!
That Gaelic (or any other Scots language or dialect for that matter) survives at all is a testament to people’s cultural resilience and it should be celebrated – and built upon.
I’d always thought of learning Gaelic but never quite found the time. Funny, it took a TV drama to finally get me started (Outlander). I’m enthusiastically giving it a go now via: http://www.learngaelic.scot and I’m by no means alone in this adventure (the show has a huge worldwide fanbase). So the argument that it is spoken by so few can so easily be resolved, can’t it?
I watched Danger Mouse In Gaelic.
I feel I’ve done my bit for the culture.
Didn’t they force/blend the Gaelic language on/into the Picts though? Just as English was blended into our more recent (ish) ancestors? How far back do we have to go?
It’s good that people can still talk it but I don’t see it as the rightful language of the Scottish people.
Gaelic is such a beautiful language and when you start learning it, it opens up such a great deal of understanding about place names, hill names and history which you weren’t aware of before. I am a huge supporter, especially since the only reason very few people speak it now is that it was stamped out of the country in the same way that most Scottish culture is treated, by shameful portrayal and replacement with the purer, more ‘British’ version.
Long live gaelic, and may lots more of us take the time to learn it. Long live Wings too though!
I wonder how much is spent on promoting Urdu, Hindi, Tamil and Polish in the UK? They must be practically dead languages here as so few people speak them, right?
Gaelic is culturally important to all of Scotland – the place names all over the country attest to that. It may well be a ‘nearly dead’ language but its demise has not been due to natural causes.
I think it is instructive to consider how many millions the British state must have spent trying to make it a dead language over the last 300 years merely for the purposes of cultural imperialism.
Finally, a vibrant Gaelic culture can only encourage the realization that we are different and that Scotland should be independent, and that is what we are all interested in surely.
When’s he changing his name to the widely understood Jackson Rockhill?
Re green_pedant
I have a sister in law and two nieces under 12 who speak it. And they are enriched because of that.
One other thing to be considered is an experience from the 1980/90s where many native Gaelic speakers were unionists (e.g. the ex RunRig singer) and there wasn’t a problem then with Gaelic and Unionism, where they both existed in the same space, with no apparent issues.
Why Gaelic is now seen as a threat or to be ridiculed is because it has quite rightly achieved a higher profile which has (coincidentally?) followed that of the Yes movement. It is part of a greater reawakening of Scotland.
In my own opinion, the counter view to promoting a minority language, whether Welsh or Gaelic is to actively allow it to die out by not putting in place measures that could ensure it’s survival. I would have thought that Scots were an active part of Western thought; we are both inheritors and active participants in The West.
Of course, we can choose not to be, but the other side of the coin is perfectly illustrated by the events in Syria/Iraq where IS are conducting a cultural genocide by destroying cultural artefacts in order to rewrite and reframe their hollow view of the world.
So please support minority languages and, at the same time, reduce Unionist arguments to the rubbish that they are.
“To add some further perspective, the UK Government currently spends over a billion pounds a year promoting English language art and culture.”
Does the British Council spend any significant amount of money on promoting lesser used British languages or does it only spend money on promoting English?
Rev,
You are profoundly wrongheaded in your views regarding Gaelic.
The first three paragraphs of this piece are shallow and simplistic.
We don’t all have to agree on everything – independence is our primary aim – I’ll fast forward to your next piece….
the world is scattered with dead and dying languages and its not because they may have been banned or other conspiracy theories its because they failed to evolve.
Language has been evolving since the first caveman went ugg and that is the way it should be,does anybody in Scotland still speak Pict?
now i have nothing against celebrating a culture of your country and looking into the past to how this used to be.
But it is the past and should be taken in context of it being the past,i am more interested in the future.
thanks for exposing Mr Carlaw’s disinformation, Rev
Scotland has two native languages – Gaelic and Scots – and both need to be safeguarded. Bilingual roadsigns in the Highlands and Islands are to be welcomed. In the Lowlands, can we protect Scots? On the M8, the developers have renamed Harthill Hearthill on the roadsigns.
Unionists have been trying to kill off Gaelic for years so well done Rev for joining our foes
Maybe Wings should start a campaign to have all Gaelic names replaced such as the many mountains and hills that sadly have no English translations on many maps, leaving poor hill walkers with no idea as to the origins of the inclines they climb
Perhaps there are other areas of Scottish culture that we could campaign to kill off as well, I’m sure there must be more than just the minority language?
There would be a spin off as well, the less Scottish we make Scotland the less we would need independence
Aye, oops
Yours…
Meant to say as well, my grandfather spoke Gaelic as his first language, and he grew up in Aberfeldy where everyone spoke it. No longer, because it was frowned upon and he wasn’t allowed to speak it at school. Stamped out. We need to respect it now.
Fuck me, blood and soil Nationalism, is Darling ghost writing for Stu now?
As a matter of interest, we are not alone in dual language signposts.As a close example, in Brittany they were also Celts, they developed their own take on the language but Gaelic was it’s base, it was called Breton.
There is also an independence movement in Brittany, and they speak of French politicions much as we do English ones.
However, the French government and no Breton politicians would dare slag off their native Breton language and so they were free to put up their dual language signs.
Yes,French is the dominant language but there would be outrage at any suggestion of writing off the Breton’s Gaelic as useless, they understand it is a part of Brittany’s heritage.
Here we are now undergoing better together and I include the MSM in that, to belittle anything involving the SNP.
This in order to lie and deceive, to steal votes.
It is all about that.
I don’t think the Rev has helped here in part anyway, as I can read the Unionist Blogs as saying ” Even Wings over Scotland” have no time for Gaelic, why should anyone else.
The Rev’s words will be distorted to suit their agenda.
Shame really.
However, to take apart the costing lies was indeed what the Rev excells at, and needed said.
Just wish the first part was not so negative about our heritage, as part of our heritage and long history, Gaelic must stay even for that alone. They have destroyed so much of what used to be Scottish life, we need to protect the remnants.
Stu,
Good job ripping apart the nonsense being spouted in the papers about this.
However, you completely miss the point.
Gaelic didn’t just go away by itself, the British establishment made sure it went away, just like they did/tried to do with Welsh in Wales and Irish Gaelic in Ireland.
After all, we can’t have some of the people speaking languages that the toffs cant understand, how would they know if we aren’t plotting to overthrow them, etc?
Should we also not wear kilts, tartan or play pipes? (all banned by the English historically)
stu 100% on target.
Commenters tartan wrapped arguments are falling flat.
Putting the words Culture, Heritage, Tradition, and Language in the same sentence doesn’t make them all mean the same thing.
Claiming the minority badge no longer stands-more people have polish as a first language than Gaelic.
That leaves Gaelic with the same argument as the monarchy: “Its for the tourists”. It belongs in a nice museum paid for with sales of novelty mugs and tea-towels.
Disappointing to read such depressingly racist and self-hating comments about Gaelic. Perhaps we should let our historic castles collapse and our endangered animals become extinct too. Come to think of it, why rebuild Glasgow School of Art? It’s a dead building. Why go to all the trouble of reviving Scots independence? It’s a dead state.
I suppose the one advantage of Stu’s otherwise gratuitous rant is that it declines to take Mr. Carlaw’s bait by making Gaelic into a constitutional issue. I live in Northern Ireland, where the Unionist community, many of whom, like Stu, actually have Gaelic surnames, are brainwashed into thinking they should have nothing to do with the language, and consequently — en masse and almost monolithically — spout opinions not much different from his (although they’re usually a bit more polite about it).
The kind of independent Scotland in which we wish to live is a valid question. Personally, I see support for Gaelic as cognate with environmentalism and concern for the rights of other minorities. I don’t think for a minute that the Stus of this world will win, but as a cultural nationalist I have to say I’d far rather have Tory Westminster rule with Gaelic than Holyrood without it.
@Socrates MacSporran says: 1 September, 2015 at 11:25 am
” …As for Jackson Carlaw – his native language is surely Erse, or, is that what he speaks out of?”
Arrrgh! Let’s get a couple of things right, Socrates. Wir ain Lallans leid is my first language. Born in a small hamlet, just a couple of Pluchies Raws and two large farmhouses, (for two different farms), I never heard the English spoken until I went to the nearby village school.
We had no electricity and the battery wireless signal was very bad, so it was not used except by my grandfather on a pair of headphones. The point is there is a great deal of difference between the real Lallans Leid and, “Scottish Standard English”.
The former being a distinct language in it’s own right and having several, “Tunes”, (dialects), of its own. The latter is a Scottish dialect of standard English.
The reason I point this out is that many who think they speak wir ain Lallans Leid are actually speaking Scottish Standard English, or more likely a mixture of both.
The word you used, “Earse”, should not be confused with “Erse”, which owersets, (translates), into the Ingis, (English), as, “Irish”. This was because of a wide held mistaken belief the Scots came from Ireland. Recent archaeological evidence proves that they did not. In fact the Scots were tribes that inhabited both shores of the Irish Sea as the water was the main highways when the land was covered by the dense Caledonian Forest. In fact artefacts found on Scottish islands predate those on the Irish mainland.
The humane body-part, “Earse”, is quite a different matter. I’ll give you an example of the difference between the Lallans and Scottish Standard English.
“Ah gaed ben the yett, ower the causey, an stravaiged doon the gate”, is Lallans Scots.
“Ah gaed through the gate, ower the fitpath, an walked doon the road”, is Scottish Standard English. Both are, though, very much Scots unique languages.
However, I have to agree with you that Jackson does indeed often speak out of his earse and certainly not in either the Scots Lallan or the Erse leid, (but I suspect you knew all that anyway).
I share duine bochd’s disappointment and sadness.
The author of the article sounds awfully like the many monoglots I’ve heard spouting ignorance about what a language is and is not. Does he actually know another language (understand/speak/read/write)?
I currently live and work in a place where the very existence of the major minority language was denied until very recently.Anyone saying otherwise risked prison or sometimes worse.
Sometimes without mentioning that it was Scottish I would recount to people what all had been done to eliminate the Gaelic language in Scotland…and they immediately assumed I was speaking about the situation here. Then when I said the country was Scotland they were speechless.
One of the major ways of colonizing a country is by denigrating its culture or denying that culture’s very existence. Language is a huge part of that – so is contempt for it – voiced or implicit.
Destruction of a language promotes the internal colonization that contributes,as this site so ably points out, to the “Scottish cringe”. Perhaps more thought about the origins of this self-debasing feature is necessary.
A bit OT but one of the popular slogans of the country I live in used to be “Sovereignty is not given – it is taken.” If ever there was a reason to call for unilateral declaration of independence it would be Osborne’s assurance that Scotland will be permanently nuclearized…but with jobs for the peasants.
Again OT How can an Irish aristocrat have become finance minister of the UK?
Before I went to school, I spoke Lanarkshire Scots in my family and among my friends. It was bad Scots, copiously diluted with English. At school we kids were ridiculed by our teachers for speaking this bad Scots, which we were told was bad English. If we spoke it to a teacher we were punished for being cheeky.
I became ashamed of my speech. When I went to university, I did not speak my native language to anyone except when at home with my family. I believe that “the cringe” is partly rooted in the disdain that we working class people experience when we speak the language that is most natural for us. We disdain ourselves for it. This is why I believe that a programme of enhancing the self esteem (not the braggart) of working class Scottish people, must include the teaching of Scots in school, recover the vocabulary that my grandparents had, and more of the vocabulary that they had lost, move, in lowland schools, to teaching in Scots as our first language, with English and Gaelic as required second languages, and the teaching of a third language. I believe that it should be the same for the Highlands and Islands – teaching should be in Gaelic as the first language with English and Scots as second languages, and a third language. Of course this would require a gradual transition.
I served in West Africa for 12 years. My driver had never gone to school. He was amazed when I mentioned that the world is round and that people in North America can see the same moon as people in Africa. Yet he spoke 5 languages fluently.
Our African cousins have much to teach us about educating ourselves and our children to be citizens of our own tri-lingual (quadri-lingual) country with pride in our nation, country,culture and languages. I believe that only when our children are taught in their native languages, with English as the most important second language (that of international communication, commerce and trade), will we loose “the cringe”, and have legitimate pride in ourselves, our culture and our nation.
I’m convinced that only with independence can we begin to achieve anything like it.
Ruby
Outlander was never banned,just delayed I think, and it seems that no channel wanted to show it for some strange reason :). Having viewed it, I don’t think it would have made much difference in the indyref,so don’t know why it was delayed unlike other shows which were shown almost immediately on UK telly after their US airings.
It’s on Amazon instant video. It portrays the redcoats as seemingly entirely English,which was not the case,a lot were lowland Scots I think.
Disappointing to read such depressingly racist and self-hating comments about Gaelic. Perhaps we should let our historic castles collapse and our endangered animals become extinct too. Come to think of it, why rebuild Glasgow School of Art? It’s a dead building. Why go to all the trouble of reviving Scots independence? It’s a dead state.
I suppose the one advantage of Stu’s otherwise gratuitous rant is that it declines to take Mr. Carlaw’s bait by making Gaelic into a constitutional issue. I live in Northern Ireland, where the Unionist community, many of whom, like Stu, actually have Gaelic surnames, are brainwashed into thinking they should have nothing to do with the language, and consequently — en masse and almost monolithically — spout opinions not much different from his (although they usually do so more politely).
What sort of independent Scotland we wish to live in is a valid question. Personally, I see support for Gaelic as cognate with environmentalism and concern for the rights of other minorities (including “non-women”, as I have a friend who was born intersex). I don’t think for a minute that the Stus of this world will win, but as a cultural nationalist I’d far rather have Tory Westminster rule with Gaelic than Holyrood without it.
The second part of the article is fine. Usual standard.
The first part is essentially your opinion and not to your usual standard. None of that really needed to be said, it added nothing to the piece, so beyond that I’m not going to comment on it much further than this.
The second part, that the quoted figure is shite and utterly disingenuous is completely accurate. I suspect they’re either making the number up or taking a figure for replacing all the signs and claiming all the cost is because of the Gaelic parts.
Locals sniggering at outsiders not being able to pronounce place names – the Gaels in Milngavie have a lot to answer for.
You should be more tolerant of Gaelic. I’m only 62, and Gaelic was my father’s first language. My old aunts on Islay spoke Gaelic in the street as their first language, and told quite openly that they had been punished in school for speaking the language, I suppose in the first quarter of the last century, as a kind of cultural “cleansing”.
I recall sitting at a school prizegiving in Speyside in the early 60’s listening to our then “local” MP lecture us on how to live, who had an accent nearly incomprehensible to me it was so “Home Counties”, and a set of assumptions and loyalties that were already at odds with what my parents taught me. I thought at the time…this is rubbish.
Even if we don’t speak Gaelic, or don’t speak it very fluently, the language is still a potent symbol for many Scots, and something, anachronistic or not, that should be protected, it having endured against great odds amongst the brassy anthems of imperial Britain.
Ruby, there are more and more people who are born and bred in Scotland that are unable to pronounce the “ch” in loch etc.
I was incensed recently listening to the Radio Scotregion travel person referring to Lockwinnock.
I sent repeated texts pulling her up each time she did it and eventually, believe it or not, she (obviously) indignantly pronounced the ch x 2.
I don’t think I was the only one pulling her up.
Trivial I know, but Im sick of (this isn’t an anti English comment by the way) the Anglicisation of life here.
What narrow minded nonsense,you don’t know what youre talking about Stu.
You have no idea the work many community Gaelic groups do, to arrest the decline of the language. The social aspect of Gaelic learning, the Gaelic kindergartens, parent and child play groups, adult learning, evening classes or weekend workshops
All these groups provide free valuable learning and are taught by mostly volunteers who give up their free time to help grow the language.
I know, why dont we just allow all minority languages to die, as they are inconvenient? lets walk around our country not knowing where our landscape, place names and even our own surnames derive from?
Lets just look at the Gaelic language and culture as a percentage figure or a cost? No doubt in the coming days you will be posting stories attacking the Scottish cringe and inferiority complex……how ironic.
“lets walk around our country not knowing where our landscape, place names and even our own surnames derive from?”
Sounds good to me. I don’t give a shit where place names came from.
For someone with a Gaelic surname, Mr Crooked Mouth (you’v enever forgiven them, have you), you sometimes are just a cultural philistine.
Keep up the good work, though
I am English through and through, born in London. I have however lived in the Highlands for over 20 years and have no plans to live anywhere else. In short I am now an English Scot (I do not answer to ‘British’). I love the Gaelic language and have taken the Cursa Inntrigidh at Sabhal Mor Ostaig. It is the indigenous language and it has been literally beaten out of generation after generation of highlanders. It is terribly sad that so many native speakers have internalised the racist anti-Gaelic attitudes of so many Lowland Scots and will not pass it on to their children. The language holds a culture and a perception that we would do well to respect and learn from. It deserves our support and it is good to see it on the road signs at last – long overdue. This nonsense about how expensive is just anti-Gael prejudice. Killing off a language is like killing off a rare species. Let’s not encourage any more of it. Luckily people like Mr Carlaw can only damage their own credibility with such horrible, racist abuse. There are only 40,000 Faroese, but they have revived their language and also mostly speak English, Danish, Norwegian, etc too. They are rightly proud of their language – if only we could be proud of ours
@Brus MacGallah
Nice one – I also like pointing this out as ironically the the anti Gaelic lobby quite often have Gaelic fornames and surnames or sometimes even both!
Some Tory councillor MacAskill and another guy with a Kane surname were slagging of Gaelic last night on twitter. No knowledge of their own history and culture.
Even the Dukes of Argyll were at it. They did not like Cam Beul squint mouth – like Cam Sron squint nose.
So the official Campbell clan history tries to claim the Campbell name came from France (via Campo Bello) and they were actually descended from Normans.
The Scottish Cringe in all its glory.
Shocked doesn’t begin to cover how I felt on reading this article. I am a fluent gaelic speaker (first language) from the isle of lewis. I grew up In a household where it was the spoken language and where music and song was also part of my everyday culture. I am proud of my heritage and thank everyday my parents who gave me the gift of being able to embrace it and I now am actively involved in the traditions of that culture. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD PLACE FOR A PARAGRAPH BREAK. My husband is from glasgow and sadly my children were brought up with english. Now both my children said they wished they had been taught the language. They have now taken it upon themselves to learn it and have done very well with it and are now actively involved in the traditions of it. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD PLACE FOR A PARAGRAPH BREAK. I feel deeply offended that someone would suggest that I and others with the language should be frowned upon for wanting the language to strengthen for future generations. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD PLACE FOR A PARAGRAPH BREAK. I do agree that the spending of important resources on gaelic signage is a pointless excerise and the finance could be put to better use. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD PLACE FOR A PARAGRAPH BREAK. In saying that the attitude by some to protect all that is Scottish and banging on about the dangers of the union also seem to refuse to accept that the gaelic culture is part of that sovereignty that they claim to be fighting for. I think its hiarious that they condemn us for being bilingual but yet they declare “Soar Alba” at the end of their comments or blogs. Double standards all round and the complete lack of understanding of the language and the culture with areas of Scotland often comes over in this arrogant manner seen in this article. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD PLACE FOR A PARAGRAPH BREAK. Its funny how so many english people move to the islands, learn the language and become actively involved in its traditions but yet thousands of people in Scotland just mick us and degrade us for being bilingual….AT LEAST WE HAVE A HERITAGESTEEPED IN TRADITION. I would rather that to having a shell suit and a bottle of bucky….. Lath Math duibhe uille 🙂 🙂
Personally, I see no reason to have english phonetic spellings on the road signs for gaelic place names.
I would prefer to have the place name spelt correctly and an english translation. That would at least be a small way of teaching gaelic.
There are still many people around whose first language was gaelic and did not learn english until they went to school, where they were beaten for the temerity of uttering any of their own language.
Graun reports
“Emails to the US presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton from a close confidant portrayed the British prime minister, David Cameron, as snobbish, William Hague as disingenuous and the first coalition government budget as draconian.
The messages from Clinton’s unofficial adviser Sidney Blumenthal paint an unflattering picture of the Conservative politicians taking over from the Gordon Brown government in 2010.”
So its hardly surprising we have to endure a complete and utter Jackson Carlaw Deputy Leader of the Scottish Conservatives.
Also creepy to think how that our snobbish, arrogant and disingenuous imperial masters use likes of Pacific Quay creep show to do their dirty work in their Scotland region and we let them dump their nukes here too.
Mind how they all begged and pleaded for a NO?
link to theguardian.com
Then they fcuked us over with EVEL 19th Sept and their historic The Vow fraud.
Spot on rev
A classic case of Scottish government bad ukok good
Exactly what is ended to counter the the slow toxic spread ofanti SG propaganda expect it to be on the BBC shortly
For God’s sake don’t let on there may be some transgender Gaelic speakers out there, we’d never hear the end of Stu’s rants (and libel actions).
Rev,
The highlands were cleared of their inhabitants and their culture.
The population of the central belt exploded relative to these clearances.
“..If you know your history, then you will know where you’re coming from…”
As Bob said…
IF THAT HISTORY
( not just the effect of change, but the identity of the sources of our cultures)
IS PASSED DOWN IN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE…MUCH OF THE DEPTH OF UNDERSTANDING WILL BE LOST IN TRANSLATION.
Seriously, I am unable to express my disappointment with your opinions on Gaelic.
“Seriously, I am unable to express my disappointment with your opinions on Gaelic.”
That’s a shame.
For all those that have no time for Gaelic, look at it this way. The humanity we are all part of is only interesting through the varied cultures on the planet. Whilst many use this as a reason to hate, defame and kill others; for so many of the rest of us it is that varied culture and language that ensures that there is interesting experiences for us all. It is important therefore that the peoples all around the world should do their bit to retain the language and culture that they have been brought up with or come from. That means for us in Scotland we need to do our bit for the culture of this planet by ensuring we can retain the culture and language of our lands. So, Gaelic and Lallan’s need to be supported as much as possible by us otherwise the planet loses a little bit more of the culture that has been created, no one else is going to save it.
Look at the horrors we see perpetrated by ISIS, not only do they rape and murder people but also destroy cultural antiquities as well. They hate the beauty of the differences we see across the world, we should do our utmost to help retain what is part of our own lands.
Stu: your first three paragraphs were a great disappointment.
They could have been written by the most crass and ignorant Britnat.
Nobody is forced to speak Gaelic, or learn it, but for the sake of our heritage and national identity we should acknowledge the importance of all aspects of our national culture, even those in which we do not have an active interest. All aspects of the national culture could, in fact, be dismissed as a waste of time and money, as being the token postures of a dead nation which hasn’t even got the guts to govern itself. And we know that that is the attitude of many unionists. It’s our support, our refusal to accept the ‘waste of time and money’ denigration, that keeps Scotland, and the independence movement, alive.
TOTALLY O/T
I’m pretty sure that Ternan was sitting on the table across from me in the Big Slope Glasgow today… Man I felt some pretty big hate while eating a tasty burger.
Perhaps if English was thought of as “non-Gaelic”, we would be more willing to learn it? 😉
link to learngaelic.net
Tried to learn Gaelic once, gave up thinking what’s the point.
Own goal though Rev (as much as I agree), but people should read the piece properly! Twice if you have to.
Gaelic lost the fight…and it ain’t coming back
I might join that Unionist website though…..just for fun
‘this site has no time for the Gaelic lobby’. What a shame. Rev Campbell makes a sad assertion which is a little shocking. He clearly has a blind spot here. Gaelic is anything but pointless and knowledge of it and about it can only broaden the learner and the Gael.
It is my contention that you cannot properly perceive Scotland without some Gaelic awareness. Rev Campbell clearly fails here, at least by my understanding. Wings over Scotland is seriously diminished by this disappointing and ignorant stance.
With some of the hostility aimed at Gaelic and indeed Scots including surprisingly even from these quarters may I humbly suggest, “Nivir trust a campbell!!”
????????????
Besides place names, there are many Gaelic surnames in Scotland. Many of them are evident in the comments here. More prominent is the blog host.
Campbell “the name itself derives from two Scottish Gaelic words. “Cam” and “Béal” meaning “Crooked mouth” or “wry-mouthed”, originally a nickname which over time became used as a surname.”
Handy map of Gaelic distribution too:
link to en.wikipedia.org
Let’s imagine for a few seconds that Gaelic was not a metaphysical concept such as language, but a physical object. Such an object that has been crafted for millennia by thousands upon thousands of artists, scholars and sculptures. A piece with such complexity and beauty that it rivaled any known treasure. An item that was influenced by many cultures and enjoyed daily by the common non-woman.
Would we be so hasty to let it gather in dust or be thrown on the scrap heap?
It would be a fair argument to say that this object would be kept in a museum along with millions of other antiques which have no reasonable modern day application like King Tuts death mask or the Honours of Scotland. However these objects bring happiness and inspiration to millions. Items that, as a civilization, will make us poorer if we were to lose them.
Gaelic isn’t an object but a still living language despite it being regularly called ‘dead’ or ‘useless’. A language that has the possibility to be sculptured for millennia more.
We all own Gaelic (even if we don’t speak it) as it is part of our history and we could be richer as a nation by making it part of our future.
After 308 years of colonial rule, it’s a wonder any Scots Gaelic is spoken at all. But an era of Independence for Scotland would, I’m sure, bring about a resurgence of all things Scots, including the native language.
In the meantime, we can all live with Gaelic roadsigns – and street names – but what we really want to see is a road map to Independence.
Its sad that most negativity and hostility to Gaelic comes from Scots themselves, who you think might celebrate and enjoy one of the distinctive strands of their nation. More than a strand; you could say, its foundation.
As other posters have said, the reasons for this and other symptoms of the ‘Scottish cringe’ are rooted in history. So deeply rooted that even some supporters of Independence are not immune to it.
Thanks for pointing out the media lie about money spent, Stu.
But, REALLY?! The case for supporting and maintaining regional and minority languages isn’t hard to make. The EU puts money into supporting minority languages (and some of the little money for An Ghàidhlig comes from that source), precisely because language is a crucial part of the well-being and self esteem of those who speak it, and for the communities who traditionally spoke it.
By 2100, 90% of the world’s languages are predicted to be dead. We’ll all be speaking mid-Atlantic English, Mandarin or Spanish, and all living on GMO Chicken McNuggets, and all bought into a globalist neo-con agenda, with no tools to think otherwise. Baws tae that!
Linguistic diversity is the cultural immune system of our species. With 90% language loss, we lose 90% of the knowledge of how to live with each other, and within our environments. It’s hard to prove that to a monoglot, with a spreadsheet or a political poll – but any fluent speaker of a traditional language knows it’s true.
I agree that trying to restore Gaelic as a primary national language (like was attempted with Irish or Hebrew) would be enormously stupid. It’s been gone too long from much of the country. But teaching some Gaelic in all our schools from the age of 4 seems perfectly reasonable to me – it’s what any real nation on earth would do! Just getting basic competence in a second language at that age will naturally make acquisition of foreign languages a dawdle – and Scots kids will become cosmopolitan and outward looking as a direct consequence. That’s my experience: I was raised with some Gaelic, in the Lowlands, and picked up French (and other languages later) much quicker than others at school.
A key goal of the ‘Great British’ state, from its earliest roots, has been to extirpate Gaelic cultural identity – from the Statutes of Iona in 1609, to the rantings of Carlaw today – and to impose an anglophone monoculture. Take a look at the grave-slabs in Bath Abbey, dedicated to So-and-so, “born in that part of the United Kingdom called Scotland”. Baws tae that. Vive la différence. Suas leis an Ghàidhlig
Paul Patience describes being at school in the East Highlands in 70/80s and suggests some persecution of non English speakers. Wouldn’t the Doric be more the language of those airts? I was a dominie in the East Highlands 1975 – 85, knew for sure no such thing was going on in our school, nor was I remotely aware of any such activity among neighbouring schools. Quite the contrary in fact.
Sigh.. This post is based around the cost of having Gaelic included on road signs. It contains a personal opinion too. The cheek of it..lol
A lot of the comments seem to focus on your personal opinion to the use of Gaelic too much I think.
The fact that someone has talked shite about it costing £26 million is the point here. The MSM are just playing *country name* whispers (scared to write it in case I’m deemed as anti- *country name*).
They hear a figure multiple it by 9 then divide by 4 and go to print with the story. That’ll do. No one will check that figure. Watch as the little people buy into our false reporting. It’s joyous..
Instead we’ve got people taking personally your opinion and using it as ammunition (I disagree with it, but not through some academic reasoning/approach, purely through heritage, history, plinky plonky Scottishness etc). What ever your opinion is on Gaelic, it doesn’t deflect from the pish being peddled that it cost £26 Million for the road signs non-story.
Anyway. “Ha me ski” (spelling grammar all to hell.. the only Gaelic I know that’s suitable for here (learned in the mid 90’s).. I will be corrected, I’m sure..
Tapadh leibh.
It appears Mr Carlaw has caught a lucky break in this thread.
As a poster above referred, Gaelic education has been a success story in Scotland, as has the flowering of wider Gaelic and Scottish culture (not always inseparable) in recent times. The Feis movement, Celtic Connections Festival and many others, all component parts of a still growing industry which continues to sell records, concerts, hotel beds, and on and on. In commercial terms alone the net worth of this industry is probably attracting tourist spend way out of proportion to that of the Gaelic subsidy, not to mention sustaining an earning, tax-paying population in an area that might otherwise be deserted. That alone is a commercial argument, the cultural one of course runs deeper. Would have expected a much better informed, and much less xenophobic argument on this page than what is written above.
“In commercial terms alone the net worth of this industry is probably attracting tourist spend way out of proportion to that of the Gaelic subsidy, not to mention sustaining an earning, tax-paying population in an area that might otherwise be deserted. That alone is a commercial argument”
Something which was clearly pointed out, twice, in the article you’re so furious about.
BTW learning any second language as an infant provides a mental platform for more easily learning further languages in later life. All these anti Gaelic incomer protesters in Skye should know this fact.One incomer I spoke to in Broadford it turns out was actually Afrikaans and as an infant spoke three languages. I simply asked him whether he wished to deny his own children the advantage he had.
The human brain has almost infinite capacity and talking or thinking shite does not seem to fill it right up Mr Carlaw!.
Its been a while since we heard this sort of attack on Gaelic. Beware attempts to stir it up amongst Scots and divide us against ourselves.
On Outlander, as well as being available on Amazon Prime it is also coming out on DVD on September 28th. Having already watched the first 10 episodes, it is fairly obvious why Cameron sought to prevent its transmission in Scotland before the referendum. Let’s just say his wonderfully Better Together British side does not come across too well in 1743…
Oh, dear, Reverend. At first I thought your comments on Gaelic were a spoof. My heart sank as I discovered otherwise.
I am not a native speaker of Gaelic, alas, but have learned enough to conduct place-name research. Its present plight is not because of some Darwinian law of failed languages but because it has been under sustained attack since the eighteenth century as part of a process to destroy forces dangerous to the British state. Enforced emigration and the effects of the Scottish Education Act of 1872 have continued this process.
You may scoff, like Muriel Gray, at Gaelic signs on roads and stations but I welcome them as a kind of resistance to those who would airbrush the language out of our history and culture. Both Gaelic and Scots have to be “othered” for the British Project to succeed and it is part of the Scottish Cringe to denigrate our native Scottish languages and culture.
The only blood and soil ethnic nationalism I can see in the Gaelic question is in the actions of those who have tried to extirpate it.
link to enotes.com
Translations is worth seeing. “It is not the literal past, the ‘facts’ of history, that shape us, but images of the past embodied in language.”
UKOK Britnats like Jackson up there can always be heard at, clue’s in the BBC name, with BBC World Service regularly explaining how the Irish want back in the UK. Who gets the Irish ferry from Holyhead to Kings Town (Dun Laoghaire) these days?
Surely Pictish would be better classed as our true national language? Gaelic was from Ireland, as was most of the highland culture which Scotland has been ‘introduced’ to.
Gaelic in Scotland, and indeed Ireland will go the same way as Pictish, given a few generations.
Stu, I hope you are not feeling too besieged by the responses. Your article is excellent, it minces the parts of the press that justly deserve it.
Scottish Parliament TV just started 2pm
Yes, I love the fact that this £26 million figure is being bandied about the same time as Osborne has promised £500m for Trident renewal. Talk about political diversion! The most worrying thing is how many people are biting.
Were Nicola to speak in the Gaelic from time to time, an’ Alex too, that would set the heather on fire. Now there’s a project to unite the nation!
There’s a helluva lot more to Independence than just the political variety.
Livng in Bristol must be affecting you. This sort of gratuitous ignorance is the sort of thing you expect Michael Portillo to engage in when on TV with Andrew Neil when banging on about ‘the language’. You have much to learn about Human Rights with respect to historically suppressed minority languages around Europe.
I am a Gaelic speaker and father of Gaelic speaking children and living in a community where Gaelic is a common mode of interaction on a daily basis.
I routinely experience unprovoked gross racism using the general approach and words in your post from DUP Councillors, the sole UKIP nitwit on my council and others operating in various state institutions.
A lot of the ‘incomers’ to my area from England vote for me as the alternatives are so stark – and I tend to ignore and forgive comments of this type from them as I know the media they watch and education they have been through and understand it it is not their fault – anyway after a year or two they generally ‘get it’.
However this level of ignorance in a mainstream blogger like yourself is pretty unforgivable – go on a course and get yourself educated – or just don’t blog in this subject until you have a grasp of the essentials.
It would take hours to list the areas of discrimination we routinely experience in our day to day lives, and I can send you this list if you want or need it.
Suffice it to say that 50 years after 1955 when Rosa Parks, an African American woman, was arrested for refusing to surrender her seat to a white person in Alabama, I started a High Court case against the Government for refusing bus transport to Gaelic speaking children to go to school including my own daughter. Every other type of school imaginable was provided with buses from our local bus station.
By the time we won the case, my daughter was at University and never got to ride the bus, and Rosa Parkes was long-dead.
The Wee Ginger Dug gets my money from now on.
No Gaelic means far less tourists – means lots and lots of jobs lost from our tourist industry.
“No Gaelic means far less tourists – means lots and lots of jobs lost from our tourist industry.”
I suspect that’s rather overstating it, but nevertheless it’s a point I made clearly in the article.
Wings 2 – 5 Wingers
Everyone can have a ‘bad day at the office’.
Still runaway League leader though.
If by learning, supporting and speaking Gaelic annoys the feck out the establishment I’m never going to stop learning the language. As regards Stu’s views on the language I’m with the Wee Ginger Dug on this https//weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2015/08/06/signs-of-repayment-of-a-debt-to-gaelic-and-scots/ .
I don’t mind the signs but I doubt Gaelic will ever be more than a minority interest in future years as the global interweb village dominates.
O/T I want to thank Willie Rennie for making me laugh out loud this morning. I heard a few moments of the radio news in the car with Kezia wittering platitudes regarding doing betterer and then Willie totally blew her out the water with “The Liberal Democrats occupy the radical centre ground” My God Jeremy has a lot to answer for 🙂
@BrianW
Tha mi sgith.
Tha mise sgith cuideachd
Disappointed to see this attack on Gaelic from the pen of Rev Stu. Why disparage part of your country’s culture on a forum which is so carefully scrutinised by our unionist friends? They will drive any wedge possible. Let’s not do it for them.
Maxxmacc, you may find this of interest. The supposed Irish origins of Gaelic culture have been looked at closely and have been questioned:
link to electricscotland.com
Although the paper is fifteen years old, the author still has the same view, I believe.
Interesting concept but be aware that part of the current problem is that the English are so unspeakably mono-cultural most of them do not understand spoken Scottish.
Wherever they go they live in an artificial britbubble. You see it happen in Spain, in France and in Scotland, where the settlers will only communicate with other settlers and seem ill at ease with the unadapted locals.
At least most Scots are bilingual, and 1% is even trilingual!
I should let you know Stuart that there is a groundswell among Rangers Supporters with much the same antipathy for the gaelic.
The horror.
“Why? If something’s your first language why do you need money to teach it to your children?”
Carson?
And this coming from a person who has set up this site to highlight the role of the British establishment and the media in manipulating the people of Scotland. Really? Very disappointed to hear you spouting this tripe.
When we are at it why don’t we just tell all those Johnny Foreigners in all those crappy little European countries to pack up their language and culture as they are all useless anyway. Yeh let’s just have English everywhere as everyone speaks it anyway, don’t they??? Oh and while we are at it we can put Westminster in charge too.
I would like to think a new Independent Scotland would exclude bigots like you!
Your attack on Gaelic is uncalled for and ignorant. I bet you wouldn’t insult our fellow Chinese, Indians etc with such gusto !
“I would like to think a new Independent Scotland would exclude bigots like you!”
Ah, how I love the voice of tolerance.
I am, at least, in part from Gaelic stock – the language of my grandfather’s family was forced from my cultural inheritance by the British state. I resent that.
While I understand the argument that it is not very practical to learn it I still want to! I will go further – I intend to relocate my family to a community that has a Gaelic medium primary so that my son can learn the language.
Not only to help recover our lost family heritage but also to give my son the opportunity to understand and appreciate that cultural and linguistic diversity are central to our future as a human race.
Without healthy Gaelic speaking (and other minority language) communities we will certainly condemn future generations to a life dictated to by multinational corporations and institutions that will demand uniformity and subservience, hooked on GM foods, trash TV and computer games (FFS!) That’s not the world I want!
For me one of the main reasons I want independence from the UK is to encourage diversity – to my way of thinking anyone who trashes Gaelic must be against diversity and favour corporate and political monolithism.
PS For those of you from the Gaelic is of ‘no practical use School of thought’ – what you need to understand is that English will be spoken by most people in the world in the not so very distant future, ergo all other languages ought to go extinct
‘complete idiots’, ‘demented knuckle-draggers’, ‘honking buffoons prone to parroting idiotic drivel from internet nutcases’ and ‘a thunderingly witless moron’ – is all this abusive invective in line with the ‘Rev”s commenting rules?
If so the rules are about as useful as Gordon Brown’s ‘light-touch regulation’.
If not, don’t the rules apply to the Rev himself?
Since my previous comment disappeared into the aether let’s try again.
Your use of the 1% figure as a stick to beat Gaelic is disingenuous. It is not a figure of Gaelic’s making, Gaelic speakers are not denying the language to monoglots. There is even a website: link to learngaelic.scot to help us.
Gaelic has been marginalised and even the making it an official language and publicly funded Gaelic media have simply served to ghettoise it and lead most to assume it’s all cared for and they need pay no notice. People like you.
Then given that situation and absent any evidence that a majority of Gaelic speakers want this situation to pertain you use it to beat them.
I hope you are proud of yourself.
Re Maxxmacc
Not strictly correct, my friend.
Thousands of languages have died. Latin is dead as a conversation language.
If a language dies, it’s for a reason.
Language evolves. Some grow, some don’t. English isn’t even the language it was.
There are far more useful skills that could do with the funding. Like being able to build boats, or fish properly, or such like.
How many languages do you want funded, and why? If your reason is simply that it’s part of culture/heritage, then you should be getting on that horse to demand funding for the countless cultural activities that have been lost or are enjoyed by a tiny number of people now.
More people speak Polish than Gaelic in Scotland. It would be more useful putting up signs in that language.
On a positive note link to theorkneyvole.com
Dear Rev,
This is the first time since the Clare Lally story last year that I got to the end of the blog and thought “He’s got it wrong on this one”.
Your rant against Gaelic has completely overshadowed the important points you were making about Carlaw, Smash the SNP and the Daily Record.
Sorry to say it but your attempts to justify your position isn’t helping, the comments on here and the traffic on twitter proves this, you’ve become the story not them.
Stew,
I think that you’ve dug a hole for yourself with this one, so stop digging please.
You will, hopefully take note of the many people,who post on here with long/longish comments which are very informative, and of great interest , and almost to a man, (eh, woman as well) disagree with your view on our Gaelic.
Surely it’s not a case with you that ” if you don’t understand , then mock” !.
This just isn’t SNP is bad stuff. It is a continuation of the SG is bad propaganda and Scots are bad propaganda and Scotland is just a country populated by downright evil sub humans propaganda.
I believe Stu is highlighting the intolerance, the bigotry and racism of the British/English Cultural Nationalists. Oh and their arrogant and ignorance. He could have chosen a better way to highlight the goose-stepping of the average British Nationalist though.
O/T
Scotgov plans for 2015/16
link to gov.scot
How do you say “sorry” in Gaelic? Stu could do wit some lessons.
BTW though most of us are native English speakers – now – the state still considers it worth while teaching English in schools and Universities. So why not Gaelic?
Do you remember when Thatcher banned Russian in universities once the Soviet Union had been “consigned to the dustbin of history”? I remember 20 years earlier being taught Russian after Yuri Gagarin’s first space flight. Horror! Nobody in UK spoke Russian.
Plus ca change!
“…because everyone you can talk to in Gaelic already understood English”: that’s increasingly true of many languages other than Gaelic. So if we were to apply this logic consistently, we’d end up as…the monoglots we are increasingly becoming. Is that really what we want?
“that’s increasingly true of many languages other than Gaelic.”
No, it isn’t. There are no countries outside of the UK (other than those where it’s the primary language, eg the USA and Australia, of course) where EVERYONE speaks English.
Rev let his feelings about Gaelic undermine an excellent article, that highlighted a Tory MSP using unfounded, baseless pish as a platform for some cheap point scoring about the SNP. Which was the real story?lets be honest it doesn’t matter anymore. The internet being the outrage engine par excellence – the story is now about How REV hates gaelic. Which is not what he said – what does it matter now, the damage is done and Carlaw sneaks off back under the rock and no one remembers or notices what he said.
You had him in your sights rev, then you shot your toes off.
Bilingual roadsigns weren’t instigated by the SNP as part of its dastardly obsession with inculcating seperatism, but by the first Labour/Lib Dem administration in 2003.
I am also concerned with Jackson Carlaw’s apparent affiliations and the dishonesty he is eager to sell. Does he not appreciate he is poisoning Scotland’s body politic with distasteful and disillusion bigotry?
That said, I think you might have been a bit quick there Rev., in dismissing Gaelic as irrelevant. Though a dying language, I think it still forms part of our uniquely Scottish umwelt.
link to cambridge.org
The Electoral Commission has decided that the most precise use of language will be necessary on the ballot paper for the EU referendum (2017). The Cabinet, in other words, are afraid the ‘yes’ / ‘no’ format, may put the Governments preference at a disadvantage.
Meanwhile every statement by Cameron, Osborne & crew, directed to the Scots, is dipped first in spite and then in stale urine before being delivered.
Every narrative of the very worst cases of marital abuse and exploitation fits perfectly the ‘marriage’ between England and Scotland. Divorce is the only solution.
You know it makes sense.
Non-literate, or minimally literate communities in our past, and in other societies elsewhere today, cope(d) well with languages.
It would be an unusual 17th century innkeeper along a Lowland cattle trail who understood no Gaelic whatsoever, and could only cope with one upper class version of English. He might manage some bits of French and Romany. Essential working knowledge in a mobile trading community.
Written language skills in one enforced dominant language tends to diminish competence to pick up other ways of speaking and thinking. Hence the need to beat out native languages and beat in the language of the dominant.
Like many, I remember criticism of my use of Scots as “common”, ie, ignorant. I still write in received English, but that is not how I speak or think.
I learned some French at school. I have learned some German at work, and on holiday with friends in Germany. I resist speaking English as far as possible in both countries.
I have a little Spanish, Italian, Russian and Mandarin by osmosis.
I have learned to speak and read some Gaelic, and use it, mixed with English with a friend. I consider it to be one of the cultural strands of Scotland and worth keeping. I would never force people to learn it as De Valera tried in Eire.
I understand that Stu is making a personal point – and not asking us to agree with him – then sticking a well-deserved boot into Jackson Carlaw and, more so, the utterly incompetent, biased media that allow his ravings to pass as valid comment.
Stay on the latter point.
“Tha mi uabhasach duilich”
Translation for ‘I am very sorry’!
“Translation for ‘I am very sorry’!”
Why, what have you done?
I’ve noticed that the grand sum of 2630 like ‘Smash the SNP’ page. Don’t think we have too much to worry about.
Thanks for pointing out another in a line of simple unionist accounting errors Rev. How the eff are any of them expecting to run a country.
Have to say though, i’d be ok with 26 million being spent on the signs. I’m sick of the Anglicisation of this Nation.
Re: the Gaelic, I’m like a lot of Scots, my gran spoke Gaelic but never passed it on (this was back in the days when you got the belt for speaking Scots or Gaelic), my granddad was a Scots speaker – and I do mean a Scots speaker, none of this speaking a few words and calling yourself a Scots speaker malarkey. Again, other than a few words, he didn’t pass it on, for the same reasons that my gran didn’t.
I’m trying to learn and use both. Not because I’m trying to exclude anyone or so I can boast about being multi-lingual, just because it’s my heritage and I don’t want to lose it. I don’t think I should have to lose it or be expected to let it go simply because, ‘Ah well, everyone understands another language so we should all speak that.’ If we were all to think that then the world would be a much less vibrant and interesting place. If you feel bad that you can’t speak another language: learn one. There you go, solved that problem for you! If anyone doesn’t want to speak Gaelic or Scots, fine. But please don’t put down people who do or who want to retain their culture. Don’t be that kind of person.
I’m a big fan of Gaelic. Not because I speak it but because I think Gaelic culture, particularly its music, is so rich. Quite simply I think it’s worth preserving, or at least giving it the chance of being preserved.
It goes something like this Stu, ‘Ok guys, I got this one all wrong. My apologies.’
Sorted.
“It goes something like this Stu, ‘Ok guys, I got this one all wrong. My apologies.’”
Wow. I didn’t even see what you did. Sounds like it was pretty bad, but if you’ve apologised I’m sure we’ll all forgive you.
scots anorak: “as a cultural nationalist I have to say I’d far rather have Tory Westminster rule with Gaelic than Holyrood without it.”
a cultural cultist ?
Achnababan: “PS For those of you from the Gaelic is of ‘no practical use School of thought’ – what you need to understand is that English will be spoken by most people in the world in the not so very distant future,”
where to begin ?
Full Marks to an t-Urramach Stiùbhard Caimbeul … he’s successfully managed to troll his own blog two days in a row! 😉
Mibbe you should take a sabbatical to Sealand Stu, play a few games of Lemmings, and recharge your batteries for May ’16. We love your work, but mibbe you could do with a breather?
………
What’s aggravated me more than the anti-Gaelic thing, is how so many of the comments today are bought into divisive, half-baked tropes from the unionist canon that have little basis in fact.
@Fred, I know you were at the wind up, but the stuff about Clan Campbell being responsible for the demise of Gaelic is bollocks. The high-heid-yin Campbells, whatever else you can say about them, had a big part in preserving Gaelic culture and learning in their lands from the 16th to 19th centuries. They only got away with it because they were onside with the establishment, but they still did it.
Apart from that, taking offence at somebody for their surname is basically racism. The Campbells were used as a decoy in the Victorian sanitisation of highland history (Walter Scott, et al), to divert from the cultural and literal genocide perpetrated by the State, and to pacify the Radicals. Let’s drop that one.
@AndyH, Pictish is stone deid: literally, it’s only a few words written in Ogham on boulders. Gaelic is a real language with a 2000 year recorded history, that was spoken for centuries everywhere in Scotland, and even in what’s now Northumbria. To say it’s not relevant to you because you’re a Pict is bizarre. It’s historically of interest to all Scots, who have an interest in their local history.
@Robert Peffers,
There was a cultural struggle during the Late Middle Ages to make Inglis (now called Scots/Lallans) into the ‘Scots’ language and make Scots (now called Gaelic/Erse) seem foreign (ie Irish) in Southern Scotland. That’s part of Scotland’s history, and not a result of external occupation or anything, but it was carried on and compounded after the Union of Crowns.
The origins and survival of Scotland as a country are inextricably linked with Gaelic culture, which was a continuum from Caithness to Kerry, via Galloway, Ayrshire and the Isle of Man. Gaels always saw Ireland as their cultural epicentre – just as Brits are culturally London-centric now. The argument that the Dalriadic Scots (or at least the ones who became the Scots royalty and and aristocracy) didn’t originate in Ireland is tenuous in the extreme, and based on a false desire to see everything Scottish as indigenous since the Megalithic era. We are one country with multiple sources of culture: from England, Ireland, Scandinavia and elsewhere – only the cringe of the colonised makes us want to hide that.
Scots Gaels kept Classical learning in Europe alive, and taught the Germans, Franks and Swiss to read – at a time when the ancestors of the English were rooting for nuts in the forest. We can choose to remember that without being ‘blood and soil’ or ‘cultural nationalists’.
I’m a million times more in favour of ditching trident and food banks, and promoting social democracy, than I am in preserving cultural artifacts. But to be effective in making a better country, we need to drop the cultural cringe, and regain cultural confidence: and that means dropping the belittling myths foisted on us by the unionist establishment for 300 years.
Well if nothing else the page views will be up.
Whilst researching my family history in the 1850s, I was surprised to learn that Gaelic was the most commonly spoken language in the Inveravon area of Upper Banffshire. However, the only escape from the poverty and drudgery of working the land was through education. This was done through the medium of English in the parish schools. By such means, Gaelic gradually died out when the last native Gaelic speaker passed away in the 1920s.
My father used to tell me that the most important subject to be learned at school was English. No mention was ever made of Gaelic as a language. Indeed, in those days, the four ancient universities recognised and demanded a pass in Higher English as a prerequisite for entry into the institutions.
I regret to say that my knowledge of the Gaelic language, its traditions and customs, is virtually non-existent and, to my shame, I have done little about it in my lifetime (now in my 70s!). However, I do support the maintenance of such so-called minor languages by Governments. Both the Irish and Welsh authorities have made tremendous strides in preserving and investing in their native culture and I see every good reason as to why the Scottish Government should follow suit.
With regard to language and culture, the following quote, which I first observed on this website last year, should be a warning to us all:
“To destroy a nation, you must deprive the people of their national consciousness. Treat them as a tribe and not a nation; dilute their national pride; do not teach them their history; propagate their language as inferior; imply they have a cultural void; emphasise their customs are primitive and dismiss independence as a barbaric anomaly.”
The author of this statement was a highly intelligent, cultured, yet one of the most evil individuals to have existed in the 20th Century. It was none other than SS General Reinhardt Tristan Eugen Heydrich, Reichsprotector of Czechoslovakia. He obviously knew a thing or two about national subjugation.
Is it any wonder that the Unionists like Jackson Carlaw criticise and attack any exaggerated expenditure on our language and culture? It is clear that they want to eradicate our culture from our DNA.
I guess I’m one of the 1% 🙂
The whole business of having dual-language signs was actually funded by the EU when all of NW Scotland first had “Objective One” funding (yeah its that long ago). There was also a fair bit of funding which the BBC was given to teach children the language – I’m one of the “Can seo” generation so none of this is in any way “new”.
Locals were somewhat amused at the idea they’d NEED Gaelic signposting – after all they’d had the best part of a hundred years of “English only” signs so why bother now? – but as is normal with EU funding the locals just view it as free cash and rightly so when you have objective one status 😀
Anyway I digress but that’s where it started – frankly I had a “WTF?” moment when I saw dual-language signs south of Perth for the first time.
With a very few exceptions the “Gaelic Lobby” are mainly people who don’t live anywhere near the communities where Gaelic is spoken on a daily basis and know nothing about what Gaelic speakers actually want/think.
Again, with a few exceptions, nobody in a Gaelic-speaking community gives a damn what people who don’t speak the language & don’t live there think about the language.
Its really not a big deal what people think/say – historically Gaelic speakers/highlanders (AKA teuchtars) have had some discrimination from Lowland Scots but that’s the best part of 50 years ago since that was prevalent.
tl;dr if you live somewhere people actively speak Gaelic you’ll find a lot less outrage at so-called “anti-Gaelic” comments. Get over yourselves 😀
Campbell from the Gaelic “cam” and “béal” meaning “crooked mouth” or “wry-mouthed”.
The perfect surname of the author of this unusually dreadful article.
I just had to. 🙂
link to en.wikipedia.org
Seasick Dave, tut, tut, you know that the Record and the unionist propaganda machine don’t do reasearch, LOL.
Just lie often enough.
Auld Rock
Stu by some of your replies, you are feeding the Unionists who will at least laugh their socks off and secondly will make propaganda out of them. You know that right!
“He who knows but one language, knows none” – Goethe.
Personally I would love to be able to speak Gaelic but I do get where those who think it is a waste of time and money are coming from.
I am sure there are also people who think the likes of art galleries and museums are a waste and we should just focus all efforts on “more important things”. Or any other number of things people think are a waste of government spending. (please note im not conflating the groups of people, that was just an example off the top of my head)
I do have a bit of a strange position though as I would love to see Scots get the same level of support as Gaelic, or even just any support at all. These days I find it rather annoying that I can read Scots and usually understand spoken Scots but I can’t write it or speak it much because it was never taught.
Rev! You are a wee devil!
You’ve got more people commenting and tweeting about the Gaelic than the original tweet from Jackson Carlaw.
Ha,ha! Well done!
The Rev likes a guid fecht, but I can’t wait for the proper politics to start again.
“Gaelic is a dead or dying language which is of little or no use. Time would be better spend learning French or mandari.n etc” this agreement is put forward by people who
generally only speak English, case in point stu? How many languages do you speak?
This isn’t true though. For many reasons, English speakers in Scotland and the ruk are very bad at learning other languages. What we do find is that children who go through gaelic primary schools do demonstrably better at French and German at school.
Why? Because multilingualism starts with bilingualism
But then again stu, you could only understand this if you knew yer erse fae yer alba 🙂
Maybe worth keeping in mind.
Friends and family fall out and disagree all the time. For the most part they’re still friends and family.
No two folk are so alike they agree on every single thing. You only lose a friend if you no longer want to have one.
We are sailing into dangerous waters, yesterday it was the complexities of gender and political representation today the role of languages and culture.
Off topic entirely
Do they filter the comments on BBC Scotland website to only allow British/English nasty right wing bastards?
Is this part of the grand plan to bring down the Government in Scotland?
It’s those same Cnuts from the Scotsman I bet.
@AndyH, Pictish is stone deid: literally, it’s only a few words written in Ogham on boulders.
The Picts were celtic speakers. P and Q Celtic is the difference with modern day gaelic and place names too. Also, we are still fucking here.
Flower of Scotland says:
I hope that was the ploy, if so Rev did good! However my last comments still apply.
I don’t speak gaelic and probably never will (although my grandparents on both sides of the family would have done). Support for gaelic, though, is surely about making sure the associated culture doesn’t die out, not just about making life difficult for motorists (who get far too much consideration as it is – moan over). Just saying…
link to theguardian.com
Sturgeon, Swinney, SNP, Holyrood all get nuked again by the man from The Guardian, silly facial hair and all. To think we came so close to shaking off the whole teamGEnglandB creep once and for all.
“Osborne and Cameron, who are masters of tact compared with their chip–on-his-shoulder defence secretary, Michael Fallon, are not required to consult the Scottish government on defence expenditure or deployments. Defence was correctly made the reserve of the UK government under Labour’s 1998 devolution blueprint.
These matters are too important not to require a degree of consensus, let alone to be used as political footballs in such a crude and partisan way. On last year’s independence referendum, which they briefly looked like losing – itself an amazing show of ineptitude – as on Europe, the Cameron-Osborne axis looks tactically cute, but strategically foolish.”
What really need is another three terms of SLabour right to reign over us, that was great last time. Arise, Sir Crash and Lord Flipper.
“It’s remarkable how attached people are to being oppressed hundreds of years ago.”
Uh no Rev the oppression of the language and culture goes on.It goes on through the continuation of hostile xenophobic attitudes that see it as not worthy, of the modern world, archaic etc. Does Gaelic have equal standing with English under the law?w Why doesn’t it? Isn’t denying it this an act of oppression? You are merely continuing it by publicly aping 19th Century supremacist attitudes to it. When Gaelic can be mentioned in Scotland without it being called useless etc. then it will have reached a position where it is given equal respect.
You are merely aping supremacist attitudes Rev. What makes a language and culture archaic (as you suggested)? They have been calling Gaelic and lots of other languages and people archaic and savage etc. for a while now. It is propaganda and your ignorance of this shines through.
Do you think Scots should go too? Do you think we should all speak the languages of the imperial era (the world languages) and discourage all others? Do you think we should all speak a uniform BBC type English? That is the logical conclusion from your argument. That a monoculture should be the only one encouraged and subsidised. Have you tried to research when and how Gaelic started to become thought of as archaic??
Do some research Rev. You have embarrassed yourself.
Stu,
For the first time I’m telling you, you’re a disgrace. Just like a Scot to know the price of everything and the value of nothing. I learned Latin, a dead language, at school and I think a language like Gaelic, which is very much alive and still spoken, should be preserved. Go and lie down in a darkened room for a while.
Stu,
For the first time I’m telling you, you’re a disgrace. Just like a Scot to know the price of everything and the value of nothing. I learned Latin, a dead language, at school and I think a language like Gaelic, which is very much alive and still spoken, should be preserved. Go and lie down in a darkened room for a while.
Stu,
For the first time I’m telling you, you’re a disgrace. Just like a Scot to know the price of everything and the value of nothing. I learned Latin, a dead language, at school and I think a language like Gaelic, which is very much alive and still spoken, should be preserved. Go and lie down in a darkened room for a while.
Stu,
For the first time I’m telling you, you’re a disgrace. Just like a Scot to know the price of everything and the value of nothing. I learned Latin, a dead language, at school and I think a language like Gaelic, which is very much alive and still spoken, should be preserved. Go and lie down in a darkened room for a while.
Stu,
For the first time I’m telling you, you’re a disgrace. Just like a Scot to know the price of everything and the value of nothing. I learned Latin, a dead language, at school and I think a language like Gaelic, which is very much alive and still spoken, should be preserved. Go and lie down in a darkened room for a while.
I think the rev is being assimilated by the ukanian borg. They have probably jagged his irn bru bottle with some ukanian seed, lets hope the 56 in the belly of the beast survive these attacks, the internet cannae take it capn.
For what it’s worth, and no doubt it is not a lot judging by your responses to comments above, you have lost me as a reader.
“It’s remarkable how attached people are to being oppressed hundreds of years ago.”
Uh no Rev, the oppression of the language and culture goes on.It goes on through the continuation of hostile xenophobic attitudes that see it as not worthy, of the modern world, archaic etc. Does Gaelic have equal standing with English under the law?w Why doesn’t it? Isn’t denying it this an act of oppression? You are merely continuing it by publicly aping 19th Century supremacist attitudes to it. When Gaelic can be mentioned in Scotland without it being called useless etc. then it will have reached a position where it is given equal respect.
You are merely aping supremacist attitudes Rev. What makes a language and culture archaic (as you suggested)? They have been calling Gaelic and lots of other languages and people archaic and savage etc. for a while now. It is propaganda and your ignorance of this shines through. Gaelic like most other languages has evolved. It is simply untrue to suggest it hasn’t. Tell me what the english names are for television and video recorder? like in Gaelic they are loan words (from ancient Greek and Latin both dead languages).
Do you think Scots should go too? Do you think we should all speak the languages of the imperial era (the world languages) and discourage all others? Do you think we should all speak a uniform BBC type English? That is the logical conclusion from your argument. That a monoculture should be the only one encouraged and subsidised. Have you tried to research when and how Gaelic started to become thought of as archaic??
Should all native Americans give up on their languages and cultures too Rev? Should they stop banging on aBOUT things that happened to them hundreds of years ago or are they victims of an ongoing racism that sees their cultures as inferior and old fashioned?
Do some research Rev. You have embarrassed yourself.
Lowland scots was another language severely dealt with resulting in two languages, one for the playground, another for the teacher. I have Gaelic speaking friends and this is how they were also treated at school. I enjoy the music and culture of the Gaels, and hope that it thrives.
Very disappointed indeed by your comments on the Gaelic language. Incredibly ignorant and insensitive. This is the sort of comment I’d expect from others and not yourself. It is quite frankly appalling.
Firstly, the studies that show the educational and cognitive benefits of bilingualism are many and I suggest you spruce up your research. It is clearly lacking in this regard.
Secondly, the language is an essential link to Scotland’s linguistic and cultural heritage. It also shows your connections to the other Celtic nations. As a Welsh speaker I regard your ill-judged comments not just an affront to Gaelic but also to my native language.
Do some reading Stuart! Improve your understanding of bilingualism / multi-lingualism. There are plenty of supporters of Scottish Independence here in Wales, not far from where you live, who would be more than happy to enlighten you.
“Do some reading Stuart! Improve your understanding of bilingualism / multi-lingualism. There are plenty of supporters of Scottish Independence here in Wales, not far from where you live, who would be more than happy to enlighten you.”
Tell you what, I’ll do that once you’ve read the article properly.
heedtracker says:
You quote Michael White … “These matters are too important not to require a degree of consensus …. ”
That BritNat Idiot simply hasn’t been keeping up with events. How the Hell does he think there will ever be any consensus on WMD between Scotland, as represented by the Scottish Government and our MPs, and right wing imperial Westminster?
We are on two diverging journeys. White really needs to open his eyes to the unfolding reality.
“it’s my website and I dare anything I damn well like on it.”?????????
Always good to remember who funds it though. Have a few days off.
Anything to do with the Picts is shrouded in mystery and obscure, this includes their language
That’s why when astronomers discovered the earth had a second moon, they called it
Cruithne
Which is what the Scots called the Picts and what the Gaelic speaking Picts in argyle called themselves
t42 1:11am…..That leaves Gaelic with the same argument as the monarchy: “Its for the tourists”. It belongs in a nice museum paid for with sales of novelty mugs and tea-towels…
.
Probably the wrongs thing ever written.
Tit.
p.s. burning witches wasn’t part of our culture and heritage – more of an English thing. We didn’t really get into it
My grandfather was Dutch, in the Netherlands most people are fluent in English, yet in the oil industry people often learn basic Dutch to understand what passes between Shell execs in a meeting. A second language can be used in such a way, it can be used to berate shop staff ( you can do little about tone of voice regardless of which language) without letting the non-speaker customers know the details. And it can enhance your understanding of the landscape.
Throughout the UK of GB and NI dialects and languages ebb and flow in the landscape. It’s as hard to know how to pronounce some places in Essex as it is in Stornoway. Neither should make anyone feel alien in the lands of their birth or ancestry.
It is symptomatic of the propaganda that stated in WWII about Britain being all one nation, all one language, all one culture: and its continuation now for similar ends.
Have some sympathy for those of us brought up in a culture that derided teuchters, Gaelic and Scots as inferior. That told you a good job only comes to those who speak proper English. It can be hard to shake it off entirely. Not everybody knows the benefits of bilingual childhoods.
Though, who of us brought up amongst strong dialects and speaking proper aren’t practically bilingual anyway?
Gaelic is a part of our heritage and historical culture. The Scottish cringe that has infected even many SNP supporters is sad. Having lived in Stornoway for 10 months I saw that gaelic was well spoken and far from being a pointless language I was strangely proud of these people even though I could and still can not speak a word of Gaelic. I think in a culture that is so diluted by our bigger neighbour this language is one of the last connections Scottish people still have to the past before the highland clearances and the banning of Gaelic in the first place.
Whilst my children are already bilingual I will be encouraging them to learn Gaelic as a third language and may even consider learning with them and think if people have the time, should consider it themselves. There is nothing wrong with learning more about ones country and immersing ones self in all aspects of that culture even language.
Allowing Gaelic to die would be a great cultural loss.
The Alex Salmond Nazi picture is actually funny though because of its silliness rather than having any reflection on reality.
Labour supporters are really hurting at the minute though, 26 million on road signs. Maybe the Scottish government should get in touch with MTV and we can get a pimp my road sign competition going or something?
Many of our place names are derived from Cumbric Welsh – Lanark being one.
@Vestas
“tl;dr if you live somewhere people actively speak Gaelic you’ll find a lot less outrage at so-called “anti-Gaelic” comments. …”
Aye, that’s because the only humans left in those places are the browbeaten nawbag progeny of Lairds’ Factors from the Clearances, and pipe-and-fiddle-burning Free Kirk Theocrats. Them, and some bongo-fisting, yoghurt-weaving downsizers from Kent who enjoy living in a very remote, very white, corner of their UK. All the Highlanders with a shred of pride or assertiveness ended up in Glasgow.
[that’s a playful noise up, btw, before I get pilloried 😉 ]
That ‘Smash the SNP’ facebook page is totally mindboggling.
Is there any other nation on earth with so many of its citizens not just acquiescent to being ruled by their neighbour but frothing with hatred at the thought of their country actually running itself?? Its just weird.
Stu,
I’ve been an avid fan and reader of this site since almost it’s inception and have given you a few bob over the years. Now I find out that you compare the language that I love to burning witches. Yes, you’re right, you’ve lost some friends. Can I have my money back please that I donated you. I think the last donation was £15. Not happy.
One_Scot,
Yep, you’re right page views will be up. He’s a controversialist to rival Katie Hopkins. That’s why we love him. 😉
@Heedtracker
I thought they (potentially) spoke a form of ancient British more similar to Welsh or Cornish?…
Records of them come mainly from Celtic priests who didn’t talk the same lingo
Nobody ‘knows’ anything much about them for sure.
loads of theories but that’s all they are, theories.
@Chris Baxter 2:42 pm
“If a language dies, it’s for a reason… Language evolves. Some grow, some don’t.”
Gaelic was banned. There was no evolutionary process. It was proscribed. From the Statutes of Iona of the 17th century (which also outlawed bards and other bearers of the traditional culture), to the Education Act of 1872 which gave no quarter to Gaelic.
And it continues even to the present day, when many people can recall being beaten for speaking Gaelic in school – that’s not ancient history, that’s in our lifetime.
Well the trolls have arrived as expected. Just to let it be known, I do not agree with all the Rev has said however.
He made the clear case against the Unionist lies, which he always does.
Overlooking this slip, I still support him, as we all should do having expressed our discontent with the first potion of the article. We will soon have bigger fish to fry, as the election draws nearer. Let’s stick together folks and Trolls just foff.
In promoting Gaelic I hope we will avoid a Scottish version of this mistake they made when translating an English road sign into Welsh:
link to news.bbc.co.uk
Heedtracker: “The Picts were celtic speakers. P and Q Celtic is the difference with modern day gaelic and place names too. Also, we are still fucking here.”
Wasn’t claiming otherwise, Heed. You’re welcome to your Pictish identity… but Gaelic is as much a part of Pictish history as Doric, or the P-Celtic dialect that preceded Gaelic, is all.
A lot of folk from the NE who see Gaelic as a historical imposition on Picts miss your point, though. Gaelic and Pictish were mutually comprehensible, closely related. There was never an ‘imposition’ of Gaelic, it just took over gradually because it had prestige as a literary language. There’s lots of placenames with a mix of P- and Q- Celtic. We need to get over all this parochial bullshittery.
@MajorBloodnok says: Strategy ?
“The Rev likes a guid fecht, but I can’t wait for the proper politics to start again”
Here, here ! (In Gaelic)
Highlighting of Carlaw ‘chicanery’ = Success; On the money!
Distraction / Alienation of Gaelic speakers = not so sure ?
Rev. As a fan of Gaelic was slightly disappointed (but only slightly, cause I don’t know you) to read how you felt about it.
But I am glad you did say it because of the subsequent posts in its defence,which have been very encouraging, interesting and informative.
You are of course correct that on you’re own blog you can say whatever you wish and as I also feel pretty much the same way about football (much harder to ignore than road signs and much less mainstream)I wouldn’t dream of saying you’re wrong to hold the opinions that you do.
So well done for being honest.
Hope you will rember to point to this thread when you are accused of being some sort of cult leader,with no dissent allowed.
I often put up songs, psalms and poetry in Gaelic (and Scots as well) on Off-topic. I do not speak Gaelic but the language certainly speaks to me. It is a part of Scotland’s heritage that we should cherish and encourage the use of.
Good article however like many I disagree with the opening paragraphs.
To suggest that the Gaelic language is of such inconsequence that it should be abandoned is an argument that might just as easily be applied to castles, monuments and most of the arts and not just in the Highlands either. It’s a dangerous game to start picking and choosing cultural targets as one man’s meat is another’s poison.
Personally I’d eradicate football – now that’s something truly pointless.
The Rev pretends that ethnic genocide has no ongoing legacy. That any language and culture that has been attacked in the past should just give up if they don’t have what he reckons are enough people.
I expect this type of cultural supremacism from the Daily Mail.
Will you also denounce Scots and all not easily understood dialects in Scotland as well Rev? Should we all speak like you Rev or is it the queen or who?
Be aware of all those that seek cultural uniformity. It will never happen as culture itself will not allow it.
Anyone who has looked deeply at the vast cultural repertoire of Gaelic would never call it useless. It is an ongoing expressive and unique culture. Only the ignorant call it useless.
How much Gaelic culture have you actually experienced Rev? Or, are you speaking from a position of ignorance? Is that really a good position to speaking from?
Law and legal tracts were still formulated in Latin across Europe well into the 20th century
This is because Latin is a fully declined language, like Gaelic, and leaves little room for equivocation or misunderstanding. English on the other hand, is vague and lacks the ability to be precise when confronted with complex issues. Bear in mind, golden age Latin really is dead, has been for centuries, so why did it survive in the legal profession so long? Here is a modern attempt at terms and conditions in English
Wanadoo for ‘Wireless and Talk’ terms and conditions
‘The failure to exercise or delay in exercising a right or remedy under this Agreement shall not constitute a waiver of the right or remedy or a waiver of any other rights or remedies and no single or partial exercise of any right or remedy under this Agreement shall prevent any further exercise of the right or remedy or the exercise of any other right or remedy. The rights and remedies contained in this Agreement are cumulative and not exclusive of any rights or remedies provided by law.’
This is why people don’t read terms and conditions but because I have studied both Latin and Gaelic, I’m probably one of the few who can actually understand this text. Indeed, Latin and Gaelic are such precise languages, you can use them as computer languages and write programs for computers in Latin and Gaelic.
You too would know this if you had studied Gaelic. Or indeed pretty much any other language
Stick to playing and commenting on Tetris on your iPhone and things you know about
I am not going to support the work of an obvious xenophobe. I will not be giving any more funding to the Rev and I suggest others who feel likewise do the same an unlike his facebook page.
Disappointing, but attitudes like this should not go unchallenged. Calling any language and culture pointless and making the totally unfounded assertion that the only reason for it is a blood and soil nationalist exclusivity is as xenophobic as it is ignorant.
Stu – losing freinds that are needing losing is one thing….but losing friends or followers for no apparent reason or purchase….aint too clever.
Telling everyone that its your ball and if they dont like it they are not playing, just makes you sound like a spoiled child.
never lked the cunt
Green non-vaginaheads and their futile attempt to redefine gender on Sunday. Gaelic lobby on Monday. You are on a roll Stu. Keep it up. Also, totally agree on both.
Carmichael goes Live Yaaaas !!!
link to scotland-judiciary.org.uk
Oh dear Rev. Well you did start off by saying you were going to lose some more friends.
However the main aim of the article was to show up the usual hugely exaggerated lies by the Brit Nats in order to encourage the shouting of SNP bad and it was done wonderfully.
Whilst I do not really agree with your feelings about Gaelic it is as you say, your website (sometimes forgotten by some very regulars especially when your having a wee break) and you are entitled to say whatever on it. Over the years I have very rarely disagreed with your articles as most folk on here would probably concur, so I’m not going to get my knickers in a twist over this. Let’s face it, if you weren’t so controversial and antagonistic ( I mean it lovingly!) we wouldn’t be glued to your posts every day.
Keep up the good work.
PS not sure why I had to ‘log in’ again, hope this post works.
“I am not going to support the work of an obvious xenophobe.”
So saying that Gaelic shouldn’t be funded by the taxpayer is xenophobic?
You need to sort yourself out, pal, rather than chuck about libellous statements.
“Calling any language and culture pointless”
1) He never did that.
2) Tell me more about your culture. What makes your culture different to mine (a non-Gaelic speaking guy who can speak Italian, from St Andrews)?
Gaelic and Pictish were mutually comprehensible,
In 575, colum cille visited Inverness and his biographer, st adamnan 725, said st Columbus needed a translator?
” Independent research suggests that such investment actually pays for itself in terms of various benefits to the economy.”
For this reason alone, it deserves to be supported.
I remember speaking to American tourists who loved seeing the Gaelic placenames on the West coast because it was ‘romantic’.
I think most Scots have a lot of goodwill for those who keep it alive.
History and culture, both new and old, is a big part of what many tourists seek out in a world that is becoming increasingly homogenized.
Lets face it, they don’t come here for the weather.
Good analysis of the costs, but I disagree with you over the validty of learning Gaelic.
Gaelic and Scots for that matter have been systematically attacked and cleansed from our culture. Just the same way that Native American culture was obliterated by the white man. A red skin was only to be accepted if he adopted the white man’s culture and disowned his own. Children were taken from their families and taught to hate their own culture.
Although not identical the same has happened over the years to both Scots and Gaelic. We have been taught that too speak clearly you must “speak English”, we have been taught that Scots is just slang and not to use it. We have been taught that gaelic is a dead language and not the language of progress or culture, and to use it you will be punished.
It is part of the insidious colonialism that our country has been under since the Union was formed. I am more than a little insulted Stu for you to liken it to “Blood and Soil Nationalism”. Reclaiming a culture that an oppressive state has tried to wipe out is very different from that claim.
Do I speak either language? No, but I will defend the right to learn them, too use and them to teach them.
The point about Trident replacement is that it’s a decision Westminster has yet to debate. If tacheman was paying attention he’d have realised that. If the government is so sure of a majority on what is surely a matter of conscience and thus should not be whipped then why all the fuss about EVEL or Corbyn becoming Labour leader?
“Anyone who has looked deeply at the vast cultural repertoire of Gaelic would never call it useless. It is an ongoing expressive and unique culture.”
The issue at hand here is the language.
Language =/= culture.
“Only the ignorant” don’t understand that.
The real problem for Stuart Campbell, and his ilk who think supporting Gaelic is daft, is they do not translate that very same logic to other things.
Consider, what a waste it is (i.e we don’t ‘really’ need them), flowers in our parks (SOOOOO unnecessary), the national theatre (only a minority go), Scottish national ballet (ditto), the Scots Makar, the Robert Burns museum (most Scots have never been/will never go), and associated Burns monuments around scotland which cost money in upkeep, the beach at portobello (it doesn’t make a profit, and most Scots never go), Government support of traditional music (most Scots don’t listen to it), the Scottish National Orchestra (most Scots have never been to their concerts), the Loch Lomond national park (who cares, concrete it over) and so on, we could go.
The point is, ALL these things enrich the lives of society, even if only parts of society are involved with them at any moment. Together these things and many others create the cultural mosaic which makes society just a tad more tolerable, and which enhances Scotland and its people.
Gaelic is part of ALL of that. Just as some think Gaelic is a waste, then so many others would think men dancing in tights at the Scottish ballet is also a waste of time, yet both are funded by the Government.
It would be a grim, miserable, pointless, and very dull wee world, if the Gaelic haters like Stuart Campbell had their way.
@ Scunterbunnet
What like up the Park Bar? 😀
Having lived most of my life in Southern Africa, although a native Scot, I have learned Afrikaans an speak it more readily than English, I would dearly love to speak Gaelic, anything that sets me apart from the BritNats is welcome by me.
Rev likes a guid fecht,
Snigger, seems to have legged it on this thread 🙂
Stu – one reason that native speakers often don’t teach the language to their children is that there is still a bit of a shame and stigma attached to speaking Gaelic – a hang over from those days of the clearances and the attempt to stamp out our language. People were made to believe that their language was inferior and at a subconscious level that feeling still exists. Gaelic didn’t decline naturally, attempts were made to make it extinct – a historical ‘too wee, too poor, too stupid’ campaign against the people. But it was not stomped out, and even though people may have lost confidence in their language and it’s value, they still loved and still love their native tongue and some of those who refused to allow it to die have worked hard to get recognition for Gaelic and to have Gaelic medium education and Gaelic road signage. Gaelic is a beautiful language that belongs to all of us and deserves to be preserved. Hail Alba Gu snooker loopy!
link to educationscotland.gov.uk
There’s lots of placenames with a mix of P- and Q- Celtic. We need to get over all this parochial bullshittery.
We do. Anyway there’s is megatons of Pict and Scots history around, Scottish mesolithic, neolithic, bronze and iron age, the “dark age”, its all there, its just that its all being blanked out by our friends in the south, who are totally obsessed by their royalty, like the charming Doc Starkey, who think we should be too.
As a Pict, a neat example of Scoth cringe is the UKOK retelling of link to educationscotland.gov.uk
It’s clearly a big deal and yes Rome history says they won, so it must mean the Picts lost. But if its true, why did Rome not colonise and settle anywhere in the North East, let alone the Lowlands and Highlands? Because the Picts beat them and Rome legged it behind a big wall. No other race defeated Rome, worst tourists ever and none of them could get rid of them, but it happened in the UK’s region of Scotland.
Fcuk knows what they’d make of modern Scotch cringers.
@RobertLouis
What else would you like to spend my taxes on? Claymore displays for your mum and dad? Nessie cushions for your armchair?
Kirsty says:
1 September, 2015 at 4:33 pm
“Yep, you’re right page views will be up. He’s a controversialist to rival Katie Hopkins. That’s why we love him. ;-)”
No. Attacking fellow Scot’s/Gaelic speakers in this way is really disappointing and is going to split readers. The Rev is entitled to his opinion, however I for one totally disagree. What next? Burning Capercaillie albums?!
We should do everything we can to preserve the gaelic language. Just because we don’t speak it doesn’t mean it isn’t important to communities and to heritage. It’s not just a hobby language as Allan Massie discussed back in 2013.
And for the record, I despise Katie Hopkins and her cheap ‘if I’m controversial, I will get attention’ crap.
Really disappointed with these comments from what was a fantastic site.
OT – people saying that unionism and hostility to a local language go together have a big point in Catalonia too.
Attacking minority languages here is a serious political ativity, signalling a return to central control and a new feudalism where the provinces pay and serve and the court (central government elite) and friends both monopolise spending and impose the rules, one particularly sick pretext being “equality of all the Spanish”.
You’ve already got there in the sense of the gaping maw of London and geographical and social marginalisation. Madrid is dying with envy to replicate it and is accelerating asset-stripping of the provinces of everything including their languages.
Keep an eye on similar developments in the UK (Corbyn, post-indie tricks), hang on to what’s yours, joining the vandals won’t help anyone.
The Rev is quite right that only 1% of the population speak Gaelic, but in the book “Understanding Scotland – The Sociology of a Nation” David McCrone (the author) mentions a National Identity survey carried out soon after the Scottish Parliamentary election in 1999.
The survey showed that “as many as 90% were very or somewhat proud of being Scottish”.
When broken down further the % saying they were very or somewhat proud of Gaelic was 43%. He surmised this low figure undoubtedly reflected the low % of Scots who can/could speak or understand it.
So the Rev’s opinion, at least on this subject, is at odds with almost 50% of the Scottish population, I’d probably go as far as to say the wrong 50% :).
Anybody else smell a rat here?
Carmichael would have a veto over the cameras surely, if he’s happy for them to be there what does he know?
Well rev,you might not like gaelic but that’s just tough.Wether you or the knuckle draggerslike it or not its part of us and so it should remain,i don’t speak it sadly like the rest of us I was taught the foreign English language.
The tourists love Gaelic signs. What about Polish signs that stop accidents?
Gaelic programmes with sub titles on Alba are better than mainstream BBC. There are 700k watching Alba. 70K Gaelic speakers.
Italian/French/Scandinavian programmes. Noir gendre.
The Tattoo is braodcast worldwide.
“Because (a) it is, and (b) it’s my website and I dare anything I damn well like on it.”
Sorry Stu, that doesn’t cut it with me, your analysis on the supposed £28M is great but why then ridicule something that many of us hold dear and is part of my countries culture?
I will continue to support the great work that you do, but my view (small person that I am), is that you have badly misread your audience and their values, but do hope this has not dented their support too much with this one.
The ONS states Scotland has one of the best education system in the world @ Bateman
as much as i usually find myself in complete agreement with this site and the points it makes, i do find the air of superiority of some contributors to be a bit, well? to be perfectly honest? you are beginning to get on my tit. in all honesty i have only come across this kind of attitude and behaviour from scots users and tutors of the open university and their love of the language of academia, the “i am much more intelligent than you so pay attention and listen to me, it is for your own good”
well frankly? no, you can fuck off, most of you don’t even live in the year world of the average scot and in an independent scotland would soon be as despised as your average tory is now. many of you have this “born to rule” inner sneer in everything you write. i do not speak gaelic, i do not understand gaelic and i do not object to anyone who does, if it had been taught in school i would have learned it.
you citizens of the world who see it as a dead language with no place in a modern scotland, well you can fuck off, it is part of what makes scotland whether you understand it or not. sneering at the mistakes of others on here while have your own little dig does not make you look big or clever, it just makes you all look like dicks, dicks i think my FB can happily do without getting updates about from now on. come independence you will be deadwood, thrown on the fire used to burn the witches, if you create or produce nothing but words then you don’t bring anything to the table, we’ll do fine without your bile.
Just seen Kezia being interviewed under the shelter of a BBC Scotland umbrella.
Metaphoric or what?
Hooeee Stooey. Where angels fear to tread once again.
Not really a foot shot, but you’ve certainly pished all over your shoes.
The Rev gave his opinion. It’s not one I agree with but so what? Anyone railing at his temerity in expressing that opinion can find plenty of blandness and conformity in the MSM if they prefer that.
Or is there a prescribed list of do’s and don’ts to which we should all subscribe?
Rev has singlehandedly disproven that all us Nats are unquestioning clones. Those of us who support independence are allowed to have disagreements on spending (and cultural) priorities and I am delighted Rev has expressed his opinion, while also pointing out the dishonesty of others who may even slightly share it.
Those of you expressing intolerance of his right to have a contrary opinion on this issue are making me cringe far more than anyone.
Rev, while I don’t necessary agree with your views, I will counterbalance the ‘you just lost a reader’ authoritarians with my first donation immediately after I complete this comment.
Keep up the good work and NEVER be afraid to say your piece for fear of threats from readers.
PS you’re wrong about the existence of god too but I’ll still send you money 😉
My God Stu, you have started something!
Facebook, Bella and Twitter are red hot with your post.
You are a clever old sausage!
“My God Stu, you have started something!
Facebook, Bella and Twitter are red hot with your post.
You are a clever old sausage!”
Well, when you’ve slacked off for a whole Bank Holiday weekend, best to come back with a bit of a bang 😉
@ Schrodingers cat – he’s busy having a go at porage over on twitter, no holding him back today, kilts next no doubt.
Here’s what’s still going on in NI over the use of Irish.
Despite promises in the various peace agreement treaties there is still no Irish Language Act.
Legislation from the 18th century is being used to prevent irish-speakers from having court cases held in their native language
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
How the wheel turns, last native Gaelic speaker in my family was an aunt of my mother. My grandfather can remember kids being caned at school for speaking Gaelic in the playground. My children were forced to speak it in their primary school which they all totally hated to do. Jobs are advertised in Gaelic and as a native of Scotland I am unable to apply for them, only open to Gaelic speakers. Used to work with a guy whose first language was Gaelic and he just laughed at the force learning of his native language.
Gaelic is the first language of my Mother and my Aunts and Uncles on my maternal side. It was the sound of my childhood, my living breathing childhood. I grew up learning English in school, I also learnt all about the British Empire. I’m a great fan of WoS but the tone in this piece has left me feeling sad. Why do folk feel the need to proudly dismiss part of our heritage in such condescending terms. The Royal National Mod is in Oban 9th to 17th October. If anyone is in any doubt about the health and vitality of Gaelic then please come and join the ten thousand visitors expected and have your doubts blown away in the most robust, friendly and stirring way possible. There will be choirs from Canada, Australia and Germany, there will be workshops, street theatre, talks and music sessions. Gaelic is well, our heritage is rich and Scotland has as much soul as it ever did.
There have been some comments about the status of Irish in NI. Here’s what’s still going on in NI over the use of Irish.
Despite promises in the various peace agreement treaties there is still no Irish Language Act.
Legislation from the 18th century is being used to prevent irish-speakers from having court cases held in their native language
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
We do. Anyway there’s is megatons of Pict and Scots history around, Scottish mesolithic, neolithic, bronze and iron age, the “dark age”
Fist mention of the Picts is ad 297
This post date all of your list except the dark ages witch are, um, dark
Whether by accident or design what Stu’s latest article has done is to remove politics from a political website
Whatever your particular brand of politics is SNP,Socialist, Green, Radical, everyone who posts regularly just became National Protectors of Scottish Heritage United
If this were a Referendum we would have won a resounding YES vote across the board and I think what it also shows is a particular trait in our DNA
If, as a people we feel threatened that something could be taken away from our idea of who we are
We definitely do not like it
So, perhaps with that in mind just bashing Stu over an opinion which to me looks as though it’s turned up something quite interesting and also bearing in mind that Stu is actually on our team, we might think about, how do we use that emotion in our fight for Independence
Project Fear was used against us, maybe we could return the favour
At this moment in history I genuinely wish Scotland’s and my own first language was anything except English.,
“Schrodingers cat says:
1 September, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Gaelic and Pictish were mutually comprehensible,
In 575, colum cille visited Inverness and his biographer, st adamnan 725, said st Columbus needed a translator?”
Well, Schrodinger’s, I never heard that before, and I’ve studied this stuff. So I just googled the Latin text of the ‘Life’, and there’s no mention of translation for the benefit of King Brude of Inverness, in fact there’s a couple of places where Columba addresses him directly! The only mention of anything that could resemble translation or interpretation in the whole text is some decrepit old man who floats ashore on Skye in chapter 27, and Columba baptises him “per interpretem”. He was from ‘Geona’, wherever that was, and there’s no implication he was Pictish.
Honestly, the whole idea that Pictish was radically different from Gaelic, and non-Celtic, is a Unionist, revisionist ploy, with no basis in primary sources or archaeology.
“Being multilingual is an excellent thing, BUT…” oh, deary, deary me…
@john king :
Carmichael Live !
Possibly, but the chance to broadcast the lies & chicanery yet again, of The Lib/Dem MP for Orkney – surely priceless !
– Lord Justice Clerk, Lord Carloway to ‘Old Bloaty’
“Hey Liar, did you lie to everybody, repeatedly ?”
– ‘Old Bloaty’
“Yes, but not really cause I was lying for her Maj’s govt representing Blighty; so I lied for the queen and thats a good lie by my book.
See : it’ll remind everybody about his wanton lying no matter the result 🙂
@Rev. Stuart Campbell 3.02 pm
Because (a) it is, and (b) it’s my website and I dare anything I damn well like on it.
(a) for a language to be obsolete it must first be dead and Gaelic is neither, and (b) it is indeed your website and you are entitled to display your ignorance and arrogance whenever you like, but I suspect that the majority of your readers/funders visit the site for its factual content and debunking of Unionist myths rather than for the dubious benefit of your opinions.
link to firstminister.gov.scot
O/T
Nicola Sturgeon’s speech to Scotland today setting out Scotgov plans for the year
link to firstminister.gov.scot
AndyH says:
1 September, 2015 at 1:04 pm
I watched Danger Mouse In Gaelic.
Ahhh…Donnie Murdo…..I prefered to spend my student days watching Dotaman with (Unionist) Rhoda MacDonald.
Those were the days. I could have been fluent the amount of Speaking our Language I watched.
Schrödinger’s Cat “Indeed, Latin and Gaelic are such precise languages, you can use them as computer languages and write programs for computers in Latin and Gaelic.”
Actually, the whole universe is coded in Gaelic! Schrödinger’s co-quantumist David Bohm points out that to really understand the workings of the cosmos, you need a VSO language like Gaelic, your SVO tongues like English just confuse the matter. 😉
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to fdavidpeat.com
[coincidently, Schrödinger himself was a fluent Gaelic speaker. He picked up (Irish) Gaelic while passing out WWII in neutral Dublin]
Chris Baxter- he called the language (and therefore culture “literally pointless” and “obsolete” he also implied it was mainly driven by trying to exclude others and blood and soil nationalism. He also implied it is stupid in the title of the piece.
Xenophobia
“A person who is fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or of people from different countries or cultures.”
I stand by this as I believe the Rev is talking about a culture of which he knows next to nothing. He is making value judgements about a culture he doesn’t understand or know about and is linking this entire culture to negative habits “a tool whose main utility in practice is at best the exclusion of outsiders, and at worst an expression of dodgy blood-and-soil ethnic nationalism.” Ignorant, xenophobic dross.
You asked what makes Gaelic culture different.
What makes any culture different? The way it is expressed, the songs, poetry, music, literature ways of engaging with each other. That is what is different. There are different customs and manners. All cultures have differences and if you really don’t think there are any differences in how Gaelic poetry or music sounds to non Gaelic music then you need to do a bit more learning and a bit less posting.
If you don’t know about these things go and learn about them. That is what I would do.
There is nothing wrong with cultural differences. Do you want a one culture language state? Who’s culture do you suggest? Yours? Do you suggest we rid all of Europe and the world of their cultures and languages too? Do you think this is likely to happen?
Language is a natural and continually developing thing. The wish to standardise everybody and make them speak the one language in the one way is what is archaic. What is wrong with people being bilingual and being encouraged to enjoy lots of cultures?
Singling out a culture and regurgitating the propaganda of centuries past that called it old fashioned, dead and pointless is merely carrying on a xenophobia based on political control and pseudo scientific racism. People should really do some research and find out what the background to their prejudices are. It will open your eyes folks.
O/t
cricket!
30 years ago, my neighbouring village Freuchie beat Surrey, at Lords!
Wee bit on STV.
I guess what this thread has revealed is that there are many flavours of Yes supporter.
The Rev clearly doesn’t attach much value to the Gaelic language. Fair enough.
I recall Chris Packham stating that pandas should be allowed to become extinct or words to that effect. Chris was stating that there were clear priorities in conservation and pandas were not one of them. That statement did not make Chris a bad conservationist, merely one with a different viewpoint.
The Rev’s viewpoint on language doesn’t make his stand on Yes less relevant. In fact it could be said that it makes it more relevant as he is prepared to do a way with sacred cows and concentrate on matters of more importance to his vision of Yes, Scotland and the Independence movement.
Fair enough Rev.
To extend the argument, I know of people who embrace a right wing Globalisation view of an Independent Scotland.
There are many shades to the Yes. That’s to be welcomed.
We have republicans, monarchists, those of the left, the centre, the right, NATO members, non-NATO members, closet commies, hidden Tories, lunatics, poets, industrialists and dreamers.
Bring it on Rev. I might not agree with you but you certainly know how to stir it up.
Scunterbunnet @ 1:50pm
Precisely. 😉
link to agenda21culture.net
link to agenda21culture.net
link to agenda21culture.net
Ach they’re only daft teuchters. Their own language..? They’ll be wanting their own independent country next.
The Scottish cringe is thriving!
Are we done yet?
In this world of ours, this rates alongside a leaf turning in the breeze.
Have another glass of what you like most Stu, and lets crack on – there’s a new Scotland waiting to be forged.
English speakers are weird. They are the only group in the world that think dealing with more than one language is a problem.
How come they can’t handle it without a thought like the rest of the world does?
It’s blatantly obvious that half of Stuart’s post is trolling Wings commenters.
I can read him like a Wee Blue Book. 😉
Chris Baxter says:
The issue at hand here is the language.
Language =/= culture.
“Only the ignorant” don’t understand that.
I disagree – language is culture. People that loose their language lose an enormous part of their culture. They lose even the ability to describe elements of their culture since the replacement language may not even contain the required nouns far less complex sentiments.
O/T
Has BBC Scotlandshire shut down ? Anyone know ?
By every means, keep Gaelic alive.
“Bring it on Rev. I might not agree with you but you certainly know how to stir it up.”
Doesn’t hurt to ruffle the consensus once in a while.
But wow, I’d understand the hysterical over-reaction of some people if I’d called for Gaelic funding to be cut or ended.
I didn’t do that. I provided sourced, comprehensive evidence proving that it essentially costs nothing, that people could use to debunk a common Unionist lie and expose an idiot Tory for good measure.
But some folk nurse their grievances so tightly that none of that mattered. All that mattered to them was that I didn’t like something they liked, and with a single sentence I flipped from good to evil instantly – not because I was opposing a policy they believed in, but because I was supporting it in a tone they objected to.
I’m not interested in the wildly intolerant Scotland that some of these people, and some of those from yesterday, would create – a Scotland where you have to not only DO what they want, but THINK what they want, in exactly the manner they deem it should be thought, with not the slightest deviation permitted.
Those people are restricted to neither the Yes nor the No sides of the constitutional debate, nor to any one party, nor are they exclusive to Scotland. They’re everywhere, and they’re a curse on humanity. They are the things they profess to despise the most – bigots and bullies, witch-hunters and would-be lynch-mobs.
If I was the sort of person who buckled under a bit of overheated screaming from every pressure group and its monkey, this site – a site which actually published a Gaelic edition of the Wee Blue Book – wouldn’t be here in the first place. Everyone going “I liked your other 3500 posts, but now you’ve done one I don’t like it’s all over, you are scum” might be advised to ponder what it is they really want.
People are free to express their opinions, but the only person who decides what appears here is me. It has always been thus, and it always will be. If you don’t like it, don’t get a skelf in your arse from the door on the way out.
Hi Ali.
Re: witch-burning in Scotland.
Have a wee read of the snippets at these links, about Grizzel Jaffray, the last “witch” burned in Dundee.
link to tinyurl.com
link to tinyurl.com
Can’t agree I’m afraid, Gaelic is part of our heritage I only wish more of us spoke it.
Right, time for me to go and do a wee spot of fishing myself.
Ah, this looks like a good wee spot. And…CAST!
_____
I’m with the majority on here, i support the promotion of Gaelic and believe there was no need for the Rev to add his position to the otherwise good article.
Many moons ago, when i lived in Inverness, my sons were at the age of starting pre-school so wanting them to become fluent in the Gaelic i took them to register at a Gaelic teaching pre-school. They were refused because nobody at home spoke the language.
I sort of understand their stance at the time, don’t know if it’s any different now, but sort of defeats the objective of trying to grow and encourage the use of the language, doesn’t it!
_____
Bofh wrote:
“stu, lad. we get that you’re not scottish. but…”
You might want to double-check your source on that.
_____
@ heedtracker.
FFS, mate, give it a rest with the direct links to the Unionist rags. For someone who appears to despise them you don’t half help their cause and advertising revenue.
_____
john king wrote:
“Anybody else smell a rat here? Carmichael would have a veto over the cameras surely, if he’s happy for them to be there what does he know?”
I have a different take on it John. As soon as i seen that news today my first thought was ‘And that’s the next step in the whitewash, it’ll allow them to pretend and say that everything was out in the open and fair when he’s found not guilty’.
The coverup and gerrymandering continues.
😉
Obh! A dhuine gun anam! Bha mi ‘nam beachd gun robh thu nas fheàrr na sin.
However the serious point is that attempts to closely yoke the Gaelic movement with the indy movement will be counterproductive for both. Gaelic supporters include unionists, and indy supporters include many, like our normally sensible host, who couldn’t give a rat’s earse about Scotland’s other language.
So linking the two will lose friends from both campaigns. Which of course is exactly what the trolls intend. This is an effalump trap — don’t walk into it.
Without Gaelic, we are doomed…
..50 years from now, we’d be indistinct, like a great many other nations, easily definable, predictable, a gullible bunch of free-market-able consumers.
Be careful not to pigeonhole history itself. The past should not rest. We owe it to those of us who cared.
We have rich pickings from the oral histories of mankind – conflicting
..It would be a great shame to lose the living link to a time of genuine humanity.
There are, by the way, both YES and NO voters in our Gaelic Conversation Circle – both the Native speakers and the Learners are split.
Sin mar a tha e!
Dear Rev
THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD PLACE FOR A RETRACTION OF YOUR ‘BLOOD AND SOIL’ PIFFLE THAT DESTROYED THE WHOLE POINT OF THE ARTICLE BEFORE IT EVEN GOT GOING.
Doubt it, though, given the nature of your responses to comments thus far…
Others have said they don’t agree…hmm..
They look for inspiration Rev C.
This band-wagon they can’t roll with, as it seems to move in a contrary direction.
Interesting to say the least, the Gaels will live on…no real fear there..
…but very soon after independence they’ll have to justify their funding, which they will FOLLOWING GROWN UP DEBATE…
We have started that debate here..with hard nosed acceptance of other views.
@Rev. Stuart Campbell, the founder of our feast:
Up to a point, I agree. There’s bigots everywhere. But it’s a fact of nature that wounded animals will go into a frenzy to protect themselves from further injury. A bear wi’ a sair paw will growl when you poke it.
People from oppressed minority groups are over-vigilant for threats, because they’ve already been injured/bullied/shat-upon. That’s why some innocuous, innocent comment can get you branded misogynist, or homophobic or transphobic, or anti-Gaelic. Those reactions are counterproductive and bigoted, and shut down democratic discourse. But they’re at least understandable.
If you want people to stop nursing old wounds about gay-bashing or wife-beating, or cultural imperialism for that matter, then you need to offer them acceptance and safety for a bit, so the wounds can heal.
If you were getting beaten up for being a sweatie sock everytime you left the house, you might become just as intolerant of criticism? No?
Scunterbunnet – you may wish to have another, more careful, read of The Life Of Columba. The use of an interpreter is explicitly stated a few times. For example, from chapter 33:
“At the time when St. Columba was tarrying for some days in the province of the Picts, a certain peasant who, with his whole family, had listened to and learned through an interpreter the word of life preached by the holy man, believed and was baptized the husband, together with his wife, children, and domestics.”
Pictish and Gaelic were both Celtic languages, but were down different legs of the Celtic language trousers. They were approximately as similar as modern Gaelic and modern Welsh or Breton.
Rev. Stuart Campbell posted @ 3.10pm:
“I would like to think a new Independent Scotland would exclude bigots like you!” Reply: “Ah, how I love the voice of tolerance.”
_______________________________________
He then posts @ 6.53pm:
“People are free to express their opinions, but the only person who decides what appears here is me.”
If nothing else you are always guaranteed a laugh on this site.
I honestly don’t know what i’d do without it. Funny as feck! 🙂
btw, i had no idea that “Smash the SNP” lot existed, ta much!
Maybe time for a wee bit of infiltration!
Inoculations up to date? – Check.
Scabies cure ready? – Check.
Inbreeding prevention pills? (for the distribution of) – Check.
Flamethrower and NBC suit ready? – Check.
Right, wish me luck troops, i’m going in.
In my opinion, opinions are the opinions of the opiniated. Im my opinion it would be very strange not to be opiniated.
In my opinion.
Told yies.
Rev Stuart ‘has always been thus,and always will be’
Not if you sell the successful Wings franchise to someone else.
I could picture Alan Cochrane,or Alex Massie hosting Wings in the future.
The British State would love to shut you up.
I’d be surprised if they are not presently organising a bid.
This is getting mental now, who are these people and is English not their first language
Before half of these folk go jumping up and down at the first half dozen lines of Stu’s article, and before they hurriedly dash their fingers over their smoking keyboards could they just pause for a nano second and read it again
I’ll give you max credit for this one Stu you’ve managed to attract the entire Scottish lunatic fringe in one go
In fact I’d go as far as to say, you’ve out Faraged Farage or even the Great Trump there’ll be sending in the dogs after you soon
Off with your head
“The British State would love to shut you up.
I’d be surprised if they are not presently organising a bid.”
There are days when they could have it for a fiver and a bag of crisps.
As before, the quality and speed of your analysis is remarkable and we Wingers would be the worse off without you or indeed you without us.
But Stu, you were really off the mark with this “dead language..” etc. It was insulting to many people who helped with the various crowd funding events and who contribute to this site and engage in debate. It was not required and detracted from the great analysis you had carried out. Defend your position of course, but don’t treat us like petulant children.
Ffs it looks like the Scottish Government are only gonna get power over roadsigns.
It they want to put them in Gaelic let them,especially if it annoys the arse hole Britnats.
Seriously though that language is part of Scotland’s heritage and has been attacked for centuries but is still alive.
It should be an option for school pupils as a second language.
last hit from me
Do I detect a case of ‘opinionitis’ – a fever afflicting most of all those dutifully engaged in the good pursuance of filling an Internet sites day ‘n night with news ‘n attitude?
The hallmarks are a compulsion to post excessive opinion on everything and anything, whether relevant or wanted, in the form of extraneous introductions, gratuitous asides, digressions, and sidebars. Invariably this spills over to ripostes, explanations, and counter argument, consuming the patient in a whirlpool of endless subjectivity.
The cure is getting immersed in an alternative reality for a short period, beginning with an evening in the local with friends, followed by stirring physical activity such as hill climbing, dirt biking, or deep sea diving in shark infested waters.
@ John King Carmicheals lawyer,s objected to TV cameras at the hearing to set the dates 7/8th Sept, The court was looking into the possibility of having it veiw’d in Kirkwall Sherrif Court at that time, so its nothing new.
@Stu
What flavour?
I think Twatt in Orkney, is spelt the same in Gaelic.
Only £2m for Gaelic road signs – excellent value!
Why, you’d have to pay a lot more, as a sponsor of the Conservative party, to be assured of getting a knighthood or a place in the House of Lords…
Have there been any polls to prove that Gaelic is an “irritation to the vast majority of the population” ?
I don’t speak it or plan to, but just from general experience most people generally respect attempts to preserve a part of our history and culture.
I know a couple of guys who attempted to learn it, and they are certainly not blood and soil ethnic nationalists trying to exclude others. It was just a hobby to appreciate a bit about Scotland’s history and geography (munro baggers), and the language of their grandparents.
Don’t think such abuse is needed. Still, it’s only one opinion, and it gets a debate going.
Certainly proves the point above that Gaelic support doesn’t necessary go hand in hand with the independence movement.
Personally, my bugbear is the constant conspiracy theorists on facebook who make regular Indy supporters look like some tinfoil hat brigade.
The vote wasn’t fixed and the polls were pretty accurate.
Enough folks just didn’t have the balls to vote for self-government.
@Rev
Oh I don’t know:
link to siteprice.org
and
link to alexa.com
I’m sorry but….
I agree that Gaelic should be encouraged but I disagree on the blatant imposition of it in Scotland.
It’s forcing an ethnicity on the majority of Scots who are not part of the Gaelic world.
Why isn’t Doric given the same platform & funding? Doric is I would suggest used more daily & naturally than Gaelic is. It is a living breathing language. From Elgin to Buckie to the Broch to Aberdeen & Stonehaven & all places inland
Where are the funded Doric schools? Why aren’t bothy ballad competitions given as much attention as the Mod?
As I’ve said encourage Gaelic, but it is not modern Scotland & it’s not all Scotland.
@Rev
Sorry, context on that “last post” was: “There are days when they could have it for a fiver and a bag of crisps.”
Mildly surprised by all the outrage. I feel like a Harry Enfield Scouser moment coming on – Calm down Calm down.
The real issue is the utter pish about the cost of Gaelic signs.
Now if you want to get your gander up then aim it at Carlaw (or set a golden eagle on him or whatever) and the use of Gaelic as a political football to get at the Scottish Government despite protestations of supporting the cultural heritage of the country.
Can we look at the trees and ignore the wood for a minute?
The point is you called the language pointless, obsolete and implied it was stupid to support it.
Calling an entire language and therefore culture pointless is what is bigoted. The other points in your article/argument are well made and backed up by something but that doesn’t excuse you from what you have done. You have linked Gaelic to negative characteristics without any backing.
You are entitled to your opinion but then so are all xenophobes.
In my experience those that call Gaelic pointless know very little of the cultural repertoire. Would I be right in assuming this about you?
How can anyone who knows little about a language or culture call it pointless and not expect to be taken to task? It really is that simple. If you pass judgment on something you know next to nothing about you are an ignorant bigot.
Trying to turn it around and call us bigoted is just puerile.It is funny that monoglots from cultures that have never been marginalised reckon only certain cultures and languages deserve respect. I wonder if they would think the same if it was their culture that came under fire!
You never answered my question Rev. Should Scots and all hard to understand accents be discouraged too? Should we have a standard queen’s or Rev’s English? Should this be spoken world wide? That is the logical conclusion of your argument. That all languages and cultures that have been marginalised do not deserve to survive because they have become pointless from a centrists perspective.
Australian Aborigines all speak English too. Are their languages pointless too?
The point is you are merely regurgitating a centrist and imperial propaganda about minority languages. It is the same viewpoint that is still marginalising different peoples all over the world. Make them all the same and make them feel inferior and that their cultures are meaningless. This makes it all the easier to appropriate their land and resources etc.
A silly belief in the Darwinian nature of languages that totally ignores the deliberate political manouvering that has always been at play.
“A silly belief in the Darwinian nature of languages that totally ignores the deliberate political manouvering that has always been at play.”
Sigh. It’s got nothing to do with Darwinism. I don’t think English “triumphed” because it was better than Gaelic. The point is merely that it DID triumph, for good or ill, and now everyone in the country speaks it. It won and that’s that. Bleating on about all the centuries of oppression and whatnot is a bit like a football fan still complaining about a disputed penalty six months later. It’s done and it’s never going to be un-done. Get on with your life.
Anybody managed to follow the first day’s Carmichael trial?
Our Colonial Masters had previously executed Scots for speaking Gaelic, wearing Tartan, or playing the Bagpipes.
Maintaining and developing these aspects of our culture help to show these Colonial B******s that we survive and thrive!
On the All-liar Carmichael TV Broadcast, I fear this announcement shows that in spite of all the irrefutable evidence, the confession, and the abuse of the Public Purse, the Judge involved
has just been assured of a promotion, a wage rise, a wee seat in the Lords, and all for an Innocent verdict against those malicious charges made by the nasty Scots.
You were scared into voting No, so we can do anything we like with you, for being so stupid!
Stu, totally agree. What is it all about. Have it , use it by all means but not going to do much outwith the Galic speaking communitys and Partick. Can you imagine the hassle ordering my Saturday night treat of South Indian Chilli Chicken Masala and a Rogani naan from my local curry shop. Suppose I could use the numbers! Hehehe.
@Lianachan, I stand corrected. Bloody ctrl+F didn’t pick that one up when I searched the text at link to legacy.fordham.edu and link to ucc.ie
… but even so, the notion that the two languages were widely divergent is bizarre. Obviously you’re not one of the whackos who thinks Pictish was a dialect of Basque or whatever, a non-Indo-European isolate: it’s that’s kind of thing that annoys me.
P- and Q-Celtic languages were really quite similar at that time. Even modern Welsh shares a lot of of basic vocab and grammar with Gaelic, if you discount the regular mutations of pronunciation (even after a further 1500 years of divergence). It’s unlikely that they were so distinct in the early middle ages, that the one would have to be imposed on the other, as somebody suggested above – they could easily have co-existed, merged, formed creoles, etc.
But OK, interpretors maybe needed for the occasional Pictish peasant 😉
Back to politics, anyone!
“The main reason English is spoken all over the world, is because one of the first thing the colonists did was to belittle & marginalise the native languages. The same happened in Scotland where Gaelic was the native 1st language.”
Good. English is a great language, Gaelic is not. Also, I wasn’t born until 1974 so I don’t care. Even if I did care, there is nothing I can do about it.
” I don’t speak Gaelic, but I wish I did.”
I don’t speak Gaelic and have no intention of ever doing so.
The simple fact is that there are many proud independent countries, large and small, where English is the first language. That does not make countries such as New Zealand, America, Jamaica, Canada, Australia and Ireland inferior in any way.
If there is a reason to attack the SNP, the opposition parties should do so honestly and not in the ridiculous fashion they have done here.
opinionated not opiniated, curses, what a waste of an onion.
“wildly intolerant Scotland” ….it is not I that is calling languages (therefore cultures) pointless.
I am intolerant of intolerance. There is a difference. I never put down any other culture or people or language. I didn’t make the value judgement about something of which I know very little. You did.
You are entitled to your intolerant opinion but don’t start whining when someone challenges it and calls you out for it.
You have indeed lost a friend
To say that any ones culture is pointless is shamefull and hate filled
Will not be looking at your page again
To me learning Gaelic was part of my personal resistance to the machine – fighting against the trend that would have us all be one big grey consumerist mass – like a night sky without stars – like a world with only one flower/culture. Maybe just maybe a few others on here might like to give it a try – it works for me. Gàidhlig cha bhithinn as a h-aonais – Gaelic I wouldn’t be without it. http://www.learngaelic.net
@ nana smith 2:22pm..
Thanks for the help with the spelling there (I went for my phonetic approach)
I spent most of my student days tired.. all alchohol induced.. I do remember doolich and frooich too (again sorry for the spelling – I know there’s google but I’m using good old (bad) memory and not cheating).
I’ll ask my work mate what Tha mise sgith cuideachd translates to (it’s tired something..). He only tells me sweary words (but no sweary words that have literal translation for all the ones we use when we crack our toe of the leg of the bed that start with F, C and B..lol) – and that there is no K or Z in Gaelic. Oh and I love the Gaelic for Purple – who couldn’t.
Anyway. Best not turn this into a Gaelic lesson.. It’d only provoke OUTRAGE..lol.
Cheerie an drasda
Not often you write a load of shit but you have done with the rubbish in your article above. You’ll be telling us next that Latin is a load of cobblers too, or even ancient Greek.
Ok then, how much did you lose at the poker?
Stu, you said you were getting flak “not because I was opposing a policy they believed in, but because I was supporting it in a tone they objected to.”
But it was a tone you yourself objected to just over a year ago:
“… Mr Darling also accused the entire SNP of promoting “blood-and-soil nationalism” – an extremely offensive term normally used in reference to Nazi Germany, where it translated as “Blut und Boden”.” (from “What Alistair Darling Said”, posted on June 05, 2014)
I don’t know what provoked you into the use of the phrase but your opinion of Gaelic either way surely didn’t merit that?
There is nothing hysterical about not wanting an entire culture to be used as a political football or demeaned through well trodden cliche based on old propaganda.
The Rev knew this was controversial that is why he said he knew he would “lose some more friends..”. Now he acts all faux amazed at the reaction. Funny that given at one point he also said he needed to cause a stir after a quiet bank holiday weekend by denigrating a language and culture he knows next to nothing about.
A lot on here think we should just let him off seeing as he is generally on the ‘right side’. Shouldn’t we challenge ignorance and its associated bigotry wherever we find it?
Rev, consider yersel well and truly hammered.
Just wait till the hunionist media catch wind of this.
I think you might be on to another little earner in the courts.
Be vigilant, Rev, be very vigilant! £££££££££££££££
You read it here first, folks: Dirty Redcoat Forced Into Administration Due To Record Breaking Law Suit As Political Blogger Secures Endless Funding For Pro Independence Site.
LOL
🙂
“BBC Alba does a valuable job even for English speakers, broadcasting lower-league football and minority sports like shinty, albeit most viewers can’t follow the commentary).”
It sure does an excellent job as I am able to follow the “minor” sport of Rugby and watch Scottish teams playing in the Pro 12 league on BBC Alba. The fact that the commentary is in Gaelic is no problem because unlike some watchers in other sports who apparently can’t, I am able to see.
I could use the red button and watch the rugby with English commentary but don’t because Alba needs to be supported, since no other channels seem willing to broadcast Rugby games.
I may be a bit disappointed with Stu’s attitude towards Gaelic but I am delighted with our community’s support for the language. It’s pretty much unanimous. Wow!
I think support for Gaelic is one of those things that crosses the divide between unionists and nationalists. It’s a real OneScotland thing that can bring us together.
Thanks again. Oh and that site, link to learninggaelic.net is brill! Cheers.
This is one thing that always leaves me scratching my head about Scotland, the outright hostility to Gaelic. In Ireland, the language is also on life-support, but while most people either can’t or won’t learn it, nobody actually has their knife out for it as many Scots do. Nobody actually wants to see it dead. Nobody actively hates it, the way some Scots seem to. What gives?
@Scunterbunnet
Indeed, vaguely similar but not mutually intelligible. Nobody who knows anything about it will say that Gaelic was imposed. This isn’t really the right place to go into it all, but there were a number of factors. Since Columba has been mentioned, I’ll just point out that Gaelic being the language of the church was a major factor in it being spread.
Mmm, WOS is “officially” worth 7 times more than yesscotland.net. That is possibly a bit unfair …
O/T. Meanwhile. Union Jackie on Reporting Scotland…introduces Sarah to advertise tonight’s S15…..Sarah tells us she is interviewing the FM tonight to ask Questions on why after 8 years…education standards are falling..the health service is failing…blah blah.
Sarah gets prime time to make accusations unsupported with evidence…..oops nearly back to a TV fee and bias mone
or even ancient Greek
I’d struggle a bit if the signs were in Greek.
Nice one Rev, have a go at a group that is possibly 90% yes voters. Aye that will fucking help in the future.
Grouse Beater
The Carmichael case doesn’t start till 7th September & will run over two days
Stu
With the benefit of hindsight, you should have perhaps had two articles:
1. Highlighting the lies over the costs of the investment in Gaelic; and
2. You personally couldn’t give a shit about Gaelic.
Those involved in Gaelic are already acutely aware of the lies and are regularly subjected to bigoted attacks. The emotion in the responses reflect this ongoing persecution and you are only the latest person to add to this. As you say, it’s your site and it is up to the reader to decide for themselves as to whether you are a bigot or your logic in your responses stacks up.
Hope your funding isn’t affected too much.
“Stu
With the benefit of hindsight, you should have perhaps had two articles:
1. Highlighting the lies over the costs of the investment in Gaelic; and
2. You personally couldn’t give a shit about Gaelic.”
Well, no. They were intrinsically linked, in a way that a lot of people were depressingly too stupid to notice. At least Paula Honey Rose got it in her article (linked in Trackbacks at the top of comments), even if she still doesn’t like how I feel about Gaelic.
Mmm, and 70 times as much as votenoborders. Mind you, one of my effectively blank websites gets the same value as vnb – it’s kind of the minimum for any domain. More than twice as much as libdemvoice. Sounds about right, though perhaps ten times as much would be more like it.
Did anybody else actually read beyond the first couple of paragraphs?
So Stu finds Gaelic heavy going, personally I like it but I can’t say I was upset much less incensed by what Stu said and what followed afterwards was interesting and informative on the mindset of our Unionist opponents.
I never cease to be amazed at the speed people take umbrage and lob the baby out of the bath and into the woodcutter.
The Carmichael case doesn’t start till 7th September
Damn! Wrong day in diary!
‘Shouldn’t we challenge ignorance and its associated bigotry wherever we find it?’
Think the wily young whippersnapper has just done that when you compare the reactions to the last two articles.
No harm in a well formed outcry though. I think Gaelic is in good hands 🙂
You’ve certainly proved what power you wield Rev.
Nout wrang wae Gaelic!! Entertaining while watching Alba football.
See the Express and Metro [Daily Bile Lackey] are running overtime in place of the Daily Bile in slanting their stories against the S.N.P.
From Dr Jim at 01 Sep 7.40 pm
“I’ll give you max credit for this one Stu you’ve managed to attract the entire Scottish lunatic fringe in one go”
Yes you really have done yourself no favours here today. Now you are getting support from the lunatics of the POUTY fringe.
Grouse Beater 🙂
Woops! That brilliant teach yourself Gaelic site is of course link to learngaelic.net
Have a look. Great for kids too.
I kind of think evolution applies to languages – survival of the fittest.
I don’t have a problem with the gaelic and like a lot about it- music poetry etc
But it will take care of itself…… or it won’t.
(Slightly worried Stu is getting good bored of Wings and tried to feck everyone off so he can shut it down but I hope not)
Tell you what Stuart-‘not often that a post put up at 11am gets 393 comments by 8.45pm!
That’s some going lad! I’m allowed to call you that-I’m a lot older than you 🙂
Holy shit, the value of the Guardian! More than 25 times that of thetimes, 50% more than the telegraph, and about 60 that of herladscotland.
Mmm Gaelic? As Rev says any funding more than pays for itself, and tourism would decrease without it, even in non-Gaelic speaking parts. Some are for it, some agin it, some speak it as their native tongue, some learn it, some know a bit about placename words.
In some ways, German could be described as a dead language as it adopts either very long nouns or adjectives (overgrown as they’re called), or calls it a TV. And never forget “le Weekend”! Practically caused the second revolution, Robespierre would have been well pleased. Not to mention Rasputin. ra ra.
Bye the way, yir a helluva upstert, but I like yir erticles.
Dae yi no think Jackie Baillie is like the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland.
Had a dream last night that Ian Duncan Smith was interviewing the Mad Hatter fur a joab. No CV
@HandandShrimp
Ouch! Poor baby.
Yes, I read the article right through, and then some comments. Ah well.
‘ they could have it for a fiver and a packet of crisps’
Lol
I don’t blame you,it’s a said fecht right enough.
You’ll get your reward in an independent Scotland,Stuart.
You won’t be forgotten.
Of course, anyone who has been at a concert by one of our Gael bands – Manran springs to mind – will know that there is a constituency of young people who value the Gaelic language. Go along and sing along. And feel pride.
Hailsa
Just like our mountains, scenery, lochs and clean energy, Scotland is incredibly lucky in having two languages from two completely different language groups. That is before we even get into the different variations of Scots.
It would be incredibly beneficial for our children if Gaelic could be taught for one hour a week in schools. Not just because of its immense importance to our cultural heritage, but also because it is great for general brain development for kids to deal with a completely different grammar.
[Does anyone know if the success of the Finnish education system is in any way linked to them also being a country with two official languages from completely different language groups?]
Learning French, German or Italian is all very well. But hardly a challenge… Das Haus… das Buch… la aqua… passez le croissant si-voo-play!
It is interesting to note that there are groups in countries like America and Russia where people meet up to learn Gaelic. It would be a shame if we were so churlish to turn our noses up at this wonderful culture and fascinating language on our very doorstep.
Language shapes our brains, words are little concepts and language creates neural connections in our brains, as such every language holds unique ways of looking at the world, unique associations and pathways between different parts of our brains and different concepts. When a language dies we all lose the unique perspectives afforded by it. Language is more than a banal tool for communication measured by the number of those capable of understanding.
If we don’t preserve Gaelic here in Scotland nobody else is going to do it for us, it’s ours before it’s anyone else’s, thus disregarding the importance of preserving all our languages is as philistine as Daesh blowing up Palmyra.
“Non-primary native languages are a tool whose main utility in practice is at best the exclusion of outsiders, and at worst an expression of dodgy blood-and-soil ethnic nationalism. They’re a barrier to communication and an irritation to the vast majority of the population, who are made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land.”
Seriously this paragraph is literally something I would be shocked at reading in the Telegraph. I doubt they would be that culturally unaware. This paragraph is full of a centralist paranoia. It is as arrogant and selfish as it is ignorant. As if all minority language users are small minded petty and all they want to do is irritate. It suggests that they irritate the vast majority of the population (from the dominant culture I suspect he means)and that they should therefore not be given any credence.
Also, how can a minority language act as a barrier to communication if they are not a primary minority culture?
If the Rev had come out and said this about other minority cultures I think more would have been offended. He still hasn’t said if he extends this to Scots and all heavy Scottish accents that a Londoner or a person from Bath might find hard to understand.
Does the Rev think all immigrants who speak minority languages are likewise an irritant? If not why not?
The Rev seeks to portray all minority language users that also have a countries dominant language as bigoted trouble makers looking for a fight. Quite frankly it is unfounded indefensible bilge.
Genseric wasn’t a bad lad apparently (comparatively for his time). 😉
Anyway, lots of tabs open here and I’ve kind of gotten lost in distraction. Anyone care to own up to this one?
link to en.wikipedia.org
I celebrate the disputatious nature of the Scots on rampant display here….:-)
I don’t speak the Gaelic but will defend forever the right of those who live in this beautiful country to learn and retain the native words to describe the Scottish environment and the ways of its people, a right of expression denied to my Highland grandfather in the school room in favour of the Kings English…(belted out of him along with his urge to write with his left hand though he aye remained a coryfisted Shinty player)
We Scots just have to be mindful that our love of a good argument and our drive to demonstrate how right we are doesn’t divide and distract us so much that we lose sight of the bigger prize….
I couldn’t be more against the revs rant here.
Language is strongly linked to culture.
He also cites cost against value, a rationale by which it is not so much per sign for example, but which is much more difficult to measure.
Sorry but we Scots, we are not anglos, even if we are open. Diversity is a richness not a cost. I am Scottish and I am complex. That needs support and that is all.
Have to say I’m really disappointed with Stu’s position re Gaelic.
At first, I thought it was part of a quote from Mr. Carlaw and then a wind-up.
If there had been no clearances, and no attempt to destroy the language for over 250 years, what would the percentage of speakers be now.
Sorry Rev, but your comments, to me are on a par with with Clint Eastwood talking to that empty chair, representing Obama, at a Republican convention, before his first election.
And I would’nt mind if it was in fact £26 mil a year. And I maybe know 4 or 5 words in it.
Is this another Rangers thing.
“If there had been no clearances, and no attempt to destroy the language for over 250 years, what would the percentage of speakers be now.”
Who cares? In what way would we be better off if we had a country that was more divided by language than it is? But more to the point, those things DID happen, and they’re never going to un-happen. I care about the future of Scotland, not endlessly griping about the ancient past.
I read this article earlier in the day and left it to see if my anger and sadness would subside any before even thinking about leaving a comment. It is now 8.15 pm and having re-read the article my disgust of it has only increased.
As a first-language Gaelic speaker, are you aware, Stu, how your contempt and disparagement of my language, my heritage, my culture, music, dance, art and literature makes me feel, nevermind the other “just 0.9% of Scotland’s population” (it’s actually 1.1%)?
It’s only 1.1% of Scots, so, fuck’em, eh! Is that your attitude, because that is how it comes across.
I don’t know what you’re trying to achieve by rubbishing what is, still, whether you like it or not, a part of the Scottish identity?
You sound just like the English (speaking) colonialist and empirialist who trashed other languages and cultures of the ‘savages’ whose countries and lands they ‘claimed’ on behalf of the British Empire. Tally ho, chaps!
And your 0.9% [sic] of the Scottish population who speak Gaelic: you know fine well why that is. I’m not going to go into everything that was done by England and its invading armies to eradicate the language of Scotland, Gaelic, and all parts of our culture. And they nearly succeeded too, but not quite. Some were, at great fear of severe punishiment, even death, proud and strong enough to carry on the language of their Scottish ancestors.
My grandfather – whose own grandfather was thrown out his family’s home in the middle of winter while English soldiers taunted and abused them before burning the place down and killing all their livestock – would recall when he was at school that Gaelic was not be spoken under threat of a severe thrashing, which would be carried out with gusto.
And yet here we are today, 1.1% of us, still clinging on to our Gaelic heritage and culture.
But only just. Myself speaking Gaelic is only through accidents of life and death. The large family of which I became a part of all spoke Gaelic at home. That those we knew who spoke Gaelic were mostly old was obvious even then in my youth. On attending school there were one or two others who knew some Gaelic, but any conversation we had soon was spoken in English only, and continued in that way. The strong over the weak, and all that.
Yet the most depressing thing of all is that as a result of those family members marrying English speakers not one of the thirty-six cousins speak Gaelic – except me. So terribly sad.
And then here you are, instead of encouraging more to be done to preserve Scotland’s language and culture, writing in such a derogatory, disdainful, insulting and hostile manner about such an important aspect of Scotland and its history, saying more or less, just let it die, nobody wants it anyway, it’s all shite – is just fucking outrageous.
Chan eil aon chànan gu leòr. Alba gu bràth.
“As a first-language Gaelic speaker, are you aware, Stu, how your contempt and disparagement of my language, my heritage, my culture, music, dance, art and literature makes me feel”
You’re going to have to point me to where I showed contempt for your music, dance, art and literature. (As for the first three, I suspect you’re using “language, heritage and culture” to all mean the same thing.)
Obsolete? Pointless? Irrelevant? Not entirely for me as a non speaker.I like having Gaelic about.For speakers,if they think there is a point in it,then there is a point in it.The Rev seems to take a different view.Thats OK.I sometimes tell people their efforts in the garden are pointless,but we don’t fall out about it.As the Rev has highlighted,it isn’t hugely expensive to fund Gaelic.The cost of road signs is negligible.Even if it’s just prolonging the inevitable,it’s still worth it.Some might think we’re flogging a dead horse.I don’t.I think we’re giving it every chance to survive for as long as possible without spending an excessive amount of resources.The Daily Record and Jackson Carlaw? They should be ashamed of themselves spreading these lies for their own political ends.
Re. Pictish and Gaelic. I used to go out with an English lass who grew up in Brazil and so was fluent in Portuges. I also shared a flat with a Spanish guy, yet they were able to understand each other when chatting in both languages. My flatmate had had no education in Portugese and girlfriend spoke no Spanish, apparently.
It was all Greek to me. 🙂
During the Referendum at a better together public meeting I questioned Carlaw on the poor response the UK managed when a Russian battle fleet dropped anchor in the Moray Firth. His response was to describe what an independent Scotland’s response would be, Carlaw said it would consist of
A Calmac ferry packed full with canoes setting off from the military base on the Clyde for the Moray a Firth.
Whit a Buffoon. ……. Is it true he used to be. 2nd hand car salesman
Well Rev, I disagree with you entirely on the first half, greatly appreciate the second half, but have to go back to what Dr. Jim said:
It is notable that a hell of a lot of posts here are from many different people disagreeing with the Reverend. Either the Nat Hive Mind must be malfunctioning, or we actually *don’t* automatically agree with each other over every little thing. And isn’t it curious that unlike certain other bloggers on the other side of the independence debate, the Reverend actually allows dissenting comments to be published?
I disagree with the Reverend on a number of issues and opinions (we’re on opposing sides on the eternal Sauce War) but it’s not enough to stop me from utilizing this vital website. To borrow a phrase, putting up with these occasional disagreements rather than quitting the site in a huff is the lesser of two stupids for me.
On other politics Britannia TV Aberdeen gave not one but two slots to the monoglot Tory towel boy to tell us to keep our place and know what is good for us.
Oh and are they planning to nuke Budapest train station to protect us from those immigrants or whatever.
I creased myself at the Brit Nat stooge Electoral Commission telling those other Brit Nats in Westmidden to change the wording and format of the EU Referendum voting paper.
Tapadh leat Stu. You’ve just ensured I carry on learning the Gaelic…anything which pisses off the Brits to frothing point is fine by me!
I’ve come a bit late to this outpouring of emotion.
Paragraph 3 was a shocker, and my opinion totally differs.
Still though, the Rev is a belligerent and bonny wee fechter and wings wouldn’t be what it is if he wasn’t.
We don’t have to agree with everything he says. Just be glad he’s on the same side in the fight for independence, which is what he dedicates most of his time to.
Jings, Crivvens, Help ma Boab!
Jist imagine the stooshie it would cause if someone proposed parking enough Weapons of Mass Destruction to annihilate the entire planet up yonder Gaelic Glen?
Whit? Naebody was here for that?
The reaction of these Gaelic enthusiasts just makes me all the more determined to get the fuck out of this spineless wee County.
I honestly think some people just have the luxury of treating this like an abstract little discussion. I really don’t think they are aware of the harm that the regurgitation of all these cliches can do on the ground. They haven’t tried to raise money for a Gaelic project so they believe the myths that Gaelic is awash with money. They never question how English is subsidised and supported. That is not given a value. Gaelic is.Just as unionists say Scotland is subsidised while England is not they claim Gaelic is subsidised yet English is somehow not.
This reminds me of right wing commentators on the likes of the Telegraph who make all sorts of assertions about feckless unemployed and those claiming incapacity benefit etc. They claim there is no real poverty in the UK yet I always wonder how many actually volunteer to help the poor and actually experience it first hand. Likewise, has the rev ever been in a minority language situation and seen it from our eyes? Does he have the imagination to even try and put himself in the situation of a group that are constantly told their culture has no value? That they are inferior to a central dominant culture? That they are pointless (always from people who when challenged speak from almost complete ignorance of the culture). Not judging by this article he doesn’t.
Hi folks, I’m just going to leave this here 🙂
(re tweeted by Wings – I don’t know if that means Stu has accepted his invitation, but there will definitely be wingers in attendance, so join us, the more the merrier!)
twitter.com/YesRutherglen/status/638789964994584576
O/T
Anyone know who’s behind this? No detail on site just a skeleton address (not full as required by Communication Act). Demanding Indyref2 & selling merchandise.
link to yes2scotland.co
Of course he has pal. We’re Scots, we get told we’re worthless all the time.
It would be good if the same people getting so animated here about Gaelic would get down to Glasgow for the next rally. Think of our numbers then.
Having been a daily visitor and frequent contributor to Wings for over two years I can’t adequately express in words how much the first three paragraphs of the above article hurt.
“This site has no time for the Gaelic lobby. The obsolete language spoken by just 0.9% of Scotland’s population might be part of the nation’s “cultural heritage”, but so were burning witches and replacing Highlanders with sheep and we don’t do those any more either.”
Such fucking arrogance! I’ve already written above why Gaelic is now “obsolete”. Should we just shrug and say, ‘Tsk! Ach, whit can ye do, eh?’
If Gaelic was dying out in a Darwinian, natural selection way, then fair enough. Except it was done in a deliberate manner to eradicate Scottish and more precisely, Scottish Highland culture in brutal and heinous ways. It was ethnic cleansing, in deed and manner. Absolutely fucking shameful behaviour by England, its armies and bought-and-sold trayturs.
That it still survives at all is something that should be promoted as a positive, the Scottish will to fight against overwhelming odds to stand up for what they believe is right – and what is more right than your own language and culture – and not in the negative assertions of this article where we are told to let it die for not – well what? – for not being English?
Take the case of endangered animals. Do we just say, “Oh, there’s not many left now, what’s the point, fuck’em, let’em die!”?
For example, the rhino, the tiger, the orang-utang; why are they endangered? Not natural selection. A one-word answer: humans. The point? The point is that that is what has happened to Gaelic. The ‘humans’ in this instance are those who chose to kill-off the language. Its decline has not been natural, but one forced upon it by an enemy of Scotland. Without this unnatural intervention, Gaelic would be, if not the dominant language of Scotland as English is now, at least its equivalent.
“…but so were burning witches and replacing Highlanders with sheep and we don’t do those any more either.”
Do you have even the faintest idea just how offensive that sounds, and is? FFS!
Latest post from YES Shetland re Carmichael crowdfunder. Please read
link to facebook.com
and donate if you can.
link to t.co
Stoker, re your sneaky beaky incursion at 7.35, these may come in handy as well as the inbreeding prevention pills.
link to twitter.com
Brings a whole new meaning to “standing to attention” when the Britnational Anthem is played…
R Type Grunt
Couldnt agree more with your every word. Wow, nice to see such enthusiasim, show the same for the cause and independance may come a little quicker. A lot of whingers not wingers on here today.
Yo
See dat Jackso Carlawn bruv an’ Ruthie Babe’s horsin’ on dem tanks and ting?
dem not sayin nuttin new.
Dissin’ ma heritage,
Puffin’ on the herbage of hypocrisy,
Uncle Bob’s chiropody. Innit.
Focal suas (word up)
It may (or may not) be worth noting, that friese is similar minority language.
People that I met in Frieseland mainly brought up their children speaking friese and often english as well and they only learnt dutch when they went to school.
The street signs etc. are bi-lingual.
John McEnroe moment coming on, Rev! You cannot be serious.
“This site has no time for the Gaelic lobby. The obsolete language spoken by just 0.9% of Scotland’s population might be part of the nation’s “cultural heritage”, but so were burning witches and replacing Highlanders with sheep and we don’t do those any more either.
Being multilingual is an excellent thing, but the significant amount of time and effort taken to learn a literally-pointless second language (because everyone you can talk to in Gaelic already understood English) would be vastly better directed to picking up one that was actually of some use”
WHAT???
Gaelic is the FIRST language for many in Scotland. They are taxpayers. They deserve services in their own language. Jesus wept.
“Gaelic is the FIRST language for many in Scotland. They are taxpayers. They deserve services in their own language. Jesus wept.”
I’m coming to realise that, because so many people here evidently can’t read fucking English. Where did you hear me say Gaelic people didn’t deserve services in Gaelic? I said the OPPOSITE of that. I said those services paid for themselves so everyone whining about the cost of them should shut up. But rather than grasp that incredibly simple point, people have just jumped on an excuse to air their pet grievances. It’s getting wearisome.
If less than a Lotto Roll-over stops Gaelic from going the same way as the languages of the Picts or Britons of Strathclyde – consigned to place names – then so be it.
Although not a native speaker, I can claim to be born in one of the most southern examples of Gaelic placenames in the country, (Currie/Currach).
It’s a pity that our eduction system during the 70’s was unwilling to even teach us the meaning of the place in which we grew up.
I wonder if children growing up in Penicuik (Pen-Y-Cog), Wick (Vik), etc. likewise had/have no idea.
Besides, if a Tory 1/2-wit is agin it, then I’ll be fer it.
The £26 million for Gaelic/English road signs was first headlined by the Daily Record in 2010.
It was brought up in the Leveson Enquiry ( the enquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the UK press).
This is the relevant part of the enquiry under, 1. Disinformation and mis-reporting,
`Another story costed the bilingual roadsign policy at £26 million (news item in
Daily Record 9 July 10) (2), and picture caption in Daily Record 12 July 10) (3) This figure was probably confused with the total Gaelic budget on all services`.
Why is Jackson Carlaw a Member of the Scottish Parliament tweeting a 5 year old lie that a Government enquiry has listed as typical of distortion and misinformation from the corrupt press.
Entirely O/T.
I reckon the reason that the EC wants leave or stay rather than yes or no for the EU referendum, is so that we can’t re-use all of our YES stuff!
O/T…
Can’t believe the format the STV chose for “Scotland Tonight” tonight.
An interview with Nicola Sturgeon – followed by an attempted deconstruction by spokesnonwomen representing The Tories, Labour and Lib-Dems. No comeback allowed from any representative of the Scottish government in the discussion.
STV – your card is marked…
Rev – you must have some doubts about that stance on Gaelic.
How did Gaelic get reduced to one percent. Even as late as the early 20th. Century children “caught” speaking Gaelic at school had a stone hung round their neck as punishment.
Your arguement that it is now pointless only rewards those who sought it”s demise to remove a symbol of nationhood (as they tried to do to the Welsh,Irish, Cornish etc)
The same “shame” was visited on those who used Scots (especially if they went to find work in England). People ashamed of how they sounded compared to workmates. To retain your native speech pattern labeled you inferior.
If we accept the end of our modes of speech because they have been diluted by our larger neighbour then what next?
The Scottish sense of fairness and equality is now dominated by the self interest and greed of the South. Should we accept that socialism is a minority value and abandon it?
Our nation’s history was not taught in our schools. Our heroes were at best a shadowy outline in history at school.
It is your site and your rules but I have never before been in such disagreement with one of your articles.
My parting shot for the night.
I consider myself lucky that I was raised to speak languages that aren’t an inferior and polluted form of German. That inferior language would be English of course. Or should we be calling it Bwitish.
I find it fun to be told to stop speaking that foreign language, i.e Gaelic properly in my own country. I go right back to speaking it. It drives the Imperial Master Race immigrants nuts.
It drives the same Brit immigrant cretins nuts in France when I speak to the French in French.
The same Brit arrogance crops up the globe over. The same knuckle dragging Brits will never analyse the reasons why they are hated the world over either. They don’t even see that the are hated in the first place.
I suppose the Navajo speakers drove the Japanese nuts in WW2 as well.
Sayonara my Pictish brethren.
Apparently I belong to the lunatic fringe.
Thankyou. It is good to know that I seem to belong somewhere.
Hail Alba!
There is a danger that lighting blue touch paper and standing well back can also sink to being disrespectful and hurtful.
However, the amazing fallout from Stu’s comments is that Wingers and even trolls are discussing Scotland’s language, diallects, culture and history with passion! There is so much more to Scotland than just economics and that includes all the wonderful influences from all over the world since Scotland was first settled.
By ‘influences’ I do not mean what was at the time a foreign language being forced down our throats together with the diabolical laws passed to crush ‘rebellious Scots’.
As for Jackson Carlaw…NOW I wish I had the Gaelic to trully and elequently express my utter comtempt for that dispicible wee piece of pooh!!
R typr grunt “Of course he has pal. We’re Scots, we get told we’re worthless all the time. ”
Yeah it was what I was getting at. Scotland is called irrelevant, subsidised etc. and that grates. Imagine being called pointless and backwards over generations. Imagine when people with high public profiles, who should know better, merely ape the ignorant deliberately undermining British propaganda that has been sent our way for centuries.
Ethnocide over centuries has long tern effects. You can’t just claim it all happened hundreds of years ago (it didn’t) and that has no affect on the situation today. Go to any situation in the world where culture has been undermined in this way (basically colonial mostly)and see what they have in common. They all lack confidence and believe a lot of the propaganda that has been directed towards them. Tell someone they are pointless for long enough and they start to believe it no matter what the truth. It is a type of abuse and oppression and the Rev has just mindlessly (if he is not just a bigot) joined in.
The rev still hasn’t said if he thinks Scots and heavy Scottish accents that folk from Bath might find hard to understand are just people being deliberately irritating either. Are they bad because they make people from Bath feel like uncultured aliens too? If not why not? Why is Gaelic and other minority languages an irritant and not Scottish accents or Scots? What standard way would the rev have us all speak? Just like him?
Are Australian Aborigines merely irritating people with their languages? Are the Sioux and Cheyenne and Maori? If not why not?
Also, how do you know us that are getting so animated are not taking part in rallies or demonstrating against Trident? Do you take surveys at these events or something:)
“Being multilingual is an excellent thing, but the significant amount of time and effort taken to learn a literally-pointless second language (because everyone you can talk to in Gaelic already understood English) would be vastly better directed to picking up one that was actually of some use, and every extra fraction of a second spent scanning a road sign trying to find the bit you can read is a fraction of a second spent with your eyes off the road.”
More offensiveness.
“Being multilingual is an excellent thing” says someone who isn’t.
“…but the significant amount of time and effort taken to learn a literally-pointless second language (because everyone you can talk to in Gaelic already understood English)”
And there is the arrogance of the monoglot English speaker. ‘Everyone speaks English, so they’ll speak to me in English and I don’t have to bother my arse learning another language.‘ And when they don’t, ‘Don’t these ignorant savages even know how to speak English, for fuck’s sake!’
Don’t you feel even a little embarrassed when you’re abroad and that country’s children can speak to you in English? Doesn’t it, at least, say something about your own country’s level of language teaching/learning and why that is?
And why bother learning another language, it takes up so much time, and all that… Seriously? Fuck’s sake.
And Gaelic is “literally” pointless, is it? Like, “literally”? Yeah, fuck all that stuff about learning the sounds, grammar and sentence composition… never mind learning about why so many people’s first, and especially, second names are of Gaelic origin and what their original meanings were, and all those place names, too, and the music, art and literature as well… Pointless all that stuff – literally.
“…would be vastly better directed to picking up one that was actually of some use”
Yeah, yeah, of course, just like the Welsh and Irish. Or maybe the Catalans, or the Galicians; Basques; Occitans;Corsicans; Sardinians; Sicilians; Flemish; Wallonians……
Glad to see so many taking the Rev to task on this. I have my own issues with the Gaelic lobby, especially their clumsy and counter-productive incursions into Scots speaking areas. That said, reactionary monolingualism and attacking linguistic diversity on specious (and from an educational perspective utterly misconceived) “utilitatrian” grounds really is a pile of keech. Otherwise, keep up the good work.
Now we are being called whingers. Funny how the language, by apparently independence seeking Scots, apes the language used by those that seek to denigrate Scottish and independence. They called us all whingers as well.
‘Don’t like our mindless bigotry and being called pointless etc.?’ ‘You are a whinger’.
Really mature and informative addition to the debate.
Stuart,
Just a quick one, not sure if you will catch it all the way down here. I’ve only commented once before.
I do happen to feel there is value in promoting the learning of the Gaelic language, but I’m happy to disagree with you. It isn’t the first time I have not agreed entirely with a point in your articles and I’m sure it won’t be the last. It would be remarkable if any one person agreed with every single thing you have ever written.
I’ve followed your site closely for about a year and a half now and its easily the best blog site I’ve found. Good luck and more power to you.
For what its worth (and it may not be a lot!) I just thought I’d throw some love out there!
Rev
Whilst I appreciate that you responded to my comment, your suggestion that I didn’t read your article is hugely condescending.
Your latter comments, which I understand fully thanks, mean little when, in your opening remarks, your views are akin to renegade UKIP candidates. Even some Tories are more enlightened than you on this matter. You statement was identical to anti-Welsh sentiment being made in Wales 30 or 40 years ago. We have matured as a nation and those views are now only espoused by the lunatic fringe.
Tomorrow, my youngest daughter joins her sister at Ysgol Glantaf, a Welsh medium secondary school in Cardiff. When it opened 30 years ago, the children on the buses entering the school gates were spat at by anti-Welsh language protestors who were also shouting ‘Welsh Go Home’ to kids living just 2 or 3 miles away. They were fired-up by ignorant rhetoric not a million miles away from your initial comments. Today, Cardiff has 17 Welsh medium primary schools and 3 secondary schools (soon to be 4).
The best results in English exams at 16, Stuart, are in the Welsh schools not the English medium schools as the pupils understand the mechanics of language better than their monolingual peers. They also study German and French alongside Welsh & English.
It is incredibly sad that your total ignorance of the minority language and bilingualism issue, both in Scotland and elsewhere, and your unwillingness to even contemplate that you may have deeply upset your natural supporters by refusing to post a conciliatory word or two.
My disappointment in your initial insensitivity, followed by your cavalier approach to heartfelt (and academically proven) criticism is considerable.
Will you be man enough and humble enough to conceed that you are behind the curve on this issue. Please come to Cardiff and see what Is happening here, as this Is what can happen In Scotland also.
I suspect the biggest reason for a lot of people disliking Gaelic and wishing it would die is that they can’t pronounce it, and perhaps resent not being able to pronounce the Gaelic name of their own town. Hence “I don’t speak Gaelic” as a dismissal, rather than “I don’t speak Gaelic, but I wouldn’t mind if I was able to at least speak some”.
The other thing is the Anglification of the pronunciation of placenames such as Mallaig, which is perhaps an attempt to give it an air and grace it doesn’t have. It’s Mallaig, just like that. Perhaps also that goes to not being easily able to find the meaning of roots such as “aig”, which causes the wrong emphasis.
Curiously the only easy short online guide to meaning of a few common words is from Cambridge University, and I’ve heard that used a few times in conversations between tourists to our country. The Gaelic community should take note.
It seems to me that for the Gaelic “project”, it’s all or nothing, and most choose nothing.
Apparently I belong to the lunatic fringe.
Thankyou. It is good to know that I seem to belong somewhere.
There is a danger that lighting blue touch paper and standing well back can also sink to being disrespectful and hurtful.
However, the amazing fallout from Stu’s comments is that Wingers and even trolls are discussing Scotland’s language, diallects, culture and history with passion! There is so much more to Scotland than just economics and that includes all the wonderful influences from all over the world since Scotland was first settled.
By ‘influences’ I do not mean what was at the time a foreign language being forced down our throats together with the diabolical laws passed to crush ‘rebellious Scots’.
As for Jackson Carlaw…NOW I wish I had the Gaelic to trully and elequently express my utter comtempt for that dispicible wee piece of pooh!!
Disappointing first few paragraphs, I am not offended – all to used to the usual anti-Gaelic rheotric we hear in the Scottish media. But, I am a man, and each to their own.
As for Gaelic – the reason it is in a perlious state is through a couple of factors. First of course is the neglect and distain the governing bodies of both the United Kingdom (and even Scotland pre-Union) had for it and ‘Erse/Irish’ as they called it right up to just 30-40 years ago where it was literally ‘beaten’ out of people, or frowned upon as a backwards/not to be spoken in public.
I’d like to know why is Welsh in such good nick? They had their own Welsh Act many years ago, and if you look at the demographics and stats of Welsh speakers – the youngsters ar some of the highest numbers of speakers. This is encouraging for Gaelic’s future and revivial in Scotland. The Scottish govt and Bord Na Gaidhlig I hope would be taking examples from Wales. To another extent, Hebrew was on it’s last legs before the Israeli state was founded.
I’m an SNP member, but the party in my opinion does not do enough for the language. I also back more rights for Doric and Scots too.
I´m from Gaelic stock. My grandfather spoke the language as his mother tongue, his wife did not – shock horror, he moved to Glasgow and they conversed in English. He died unfortunately before I met him when my father was a child, but passed on no Gaelic to his children. I grew up in the east coast of Scotland, but decided about 8 years ago I wanted to learn Gaelic to keep it in the family (so to speak), and I´m by no means fluent, but tha Gàidhlig beagan agam, ach cha bruidhinn mi cho tric sa’ chànain, dh’ionnasachadh mi mòran mu dheidhinn eachdraidh ‘s cùltur leis a’ Ghàidhlig began agam.
Gaelic opens your eyes to many a place name in Scotland. The next hill you climb, mountain you see, or town you pass – if you look at the origin of those words, a massive chance they will be of Gaelic stock.
As for Gaelic on road signs, the first thing my cousin from Canada who came to Alba for the summer said when he got off in Dùn Dè no Dèagh(sometimes) was “WOW”.
Suas leis a’ Gàidhlig
It seems some people have misread the intention behind this article. While I find the views on Gaelic disagreeable (I appreciate its cultural value), the points made are:
1) Gaelic pays for itself so, no matter the author’s view, he makes it clear that he’s not arguing for its dissolution.
2) There’s a high-ranking Conservative who’s telling lies, or being numb – something this site consistently points out.
To be honest, I find this whole “apologise for offending me” approach a bit unsettling. A truly free country accepts that people see things differently and disagree, for a great many reasons. Occasionally, even valid ones.
But an inability to accept that very right to disagree is a very worrying development, particularly when it’s under the guise of “tolerance”.
Mind how you go.
Yesindyref2 7.59
I’m sure control over WoS would be worth a lot more than $77981 to the British State.
They are about to spend One Hundred Thousand Million Pounds in pretending to protect their ‘nation’ from an imaginary threat,whereas they could just buy Wings for a fraction of that,and be more likely to stop their nation being ‘destroyed’.
In fact if they’re quick I think a packet of beef Space RaidersInvaders might swing it tonight the mood Stuart is in.
Never mind Perfidious Albion, how about Profligate Albion.
Del Rita: …Sicilians…
Hey! 🙂
We must never forget, though the Labour party in Scotland is a branch office of Labour London, the entire country of Scotland is but an outpost of England.
I don’t speak or write gaelic. I do support the Gaelic medium as part of our broad Scots heritage.
Should we basically tell gaelic speakers to stop conversing in gaelic ? not to exist? Have English names misspellling gaelic as the norm?
Scotland is bigger and better than that.
In this one Ed you are well off track.
Feel compelled to register my disappointment (& total disagreement) with Stuart’s statement “the Non-primary native languages are a tool whose main utility in practice is AT BEST the exclusion of outsiders”. It’s one thing not to believe that the Gaelic language and culture has much value, but quite another to construe such an extreme take of the issue without offering any evidence. We’ve all got chips on our shoulders I s’pose, but I come to Wings (and make my modest contributions) because it is usually relatively free from baseless sweeping assertions like that.
– RoryD
Never let it be said again that Wings readers follow without thinking. Another unionist myth has been debunked today. 🙂
Hi Stuart
Brilliant trolling,
“Why? If something’s your first language why do you need money to teach it to your children?”.
So can we get rid of all the English teachers in schools? After all if it is your first language why would you waste money employing them. 😀
@Faltdubh “tha Gàidhlig beagan agam, ach cha bruidhinn mi cho tric sa’ chànain, dh’ionnasachadh mi mòran mu dheidhinn eachdraidh ‘s cùltur leis a’ Ghàidhlig began agam”
Hint, put the translation in brackets afterwards if you want to help the spread of Gaelic. Apparently 99% of people in Scotland, including me, won’t have a clue what you’re saying and some will be turned off Gaelic jsut a little more.
Language is for communication.
What percentage of the defenders of Gaelic on here today have ever posted here before eh? I’ll wager 10% at best. I’m not denying that you have a right to be angry but we all, as modern Scots, have an even more pressing right to be raging. Our nation is being systematically raped by Unionists who care as much about me in Dundee as you in Broadford!
Somehow we need to harness the energy here and focus it on the real enemy. Scotland is precariously balanced on a knife-edge right now. Independence is a heartbeat away, and so is capitulation.
Stu has expressed an opinion that some don’t like. Tough! Here’s an idea – when we gain our birthright we won’t put Stu in charge of Culture & Tourism. Deal?
STV Scotland Tonight –
Looks like John King was right about Carmichael case and no complaints about live streaming.
Expect whitewash and no overturn of Orkney result. Nothing new has come to light, MP lied about involvement before election – So what we are still one UK.
The petition hearing expected to fail – Ponsonby’s words !
So the crown office will take the money ( for HM govt – thankyou very much); blah, blah, blah … result Carmichael knuckle rap but nothing to result in a re-run of election = Democracy UK 2015.
There you go folks, its settled before the trial as usual, that’s how it works in an authoritarian state called UK. Now sit back and watch the circus.
Why did we expect anything else ?
Yeh I can’t agree with Stu either. All the mountains in Scotland have Gaelic names. Most of the town names came from Gaelic. Understanding and preserving the language goes a long way to preserving the unique culture of Scotland.
If nationhood was simply about civic society ticking a box. Then nationhood is utterly pointless. We start with primarily identifying Scotland as a nation. Scotland only exists as a culture at present and Gaelic is woven into our country’s history from highland to Lowland.
Ashley Drake @11.20pm:
Eeek! My comment coming just after yours was such bad timing!
I meant that I am apparently part of the lunatic fringe that believes passionately in Gaelic as Scotland’s native language together with all our dialects…NOT the lunatic fringe that is antiWelsh! What are they so afraid of?
May your wee girls have a really lovely new term!
“Non-primary native languages are a tool whose main utility in practice is at best the exclusion of outsiders, and at worst an expression of dodgy blood-and-soil ethnic nationalism. They’re a barrier to communication and an irritation to the vast majority of the population, who are made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land.”
Are you serious? Like, really? If that paragraph had been written by Alan Roden or Gareth Rose and appeared in the (Scottish) Daily Mail, that would be par for the course for the right-wing UK mainstream press. But it’s not. It’s written by Stu Campbell, who: launched Wings Over Scotland in 2011 with the stated aim of providing a “fair and honest perspective on Scottish politics” with a pro-independence slant, after he “got fed up of just shouting at the TV when Newsnight Scotland was on”.(Wikipedia)
FFS, Stu, have you been ‘turned’ or something? Didn’t you re-read that paragraph? If you did, did you think to yourself, ‘Aye, that’s it. That’s good.’? Really?
“Non-primary native languages are a tool whose main utility in practice is at best the exclusion of outsiders…”
What utter shite. Yes, yes, they could and can be used for that purpose, but it is not their “main utility” to exclude others, FFS! As a Gaelic speaker, if I’m in company with another who speaks Gaelic as their mother-tongue we’ll speak together in Gaelic. When, or if, someone joins us who, often as not, cannot speak Gaelic, we will all converse in the lingua franca, so to speak, which is English.
People in Scotland are generally friendly, and many gregarious. It would be the height of rudeness, unfriendliness and being a fucking numbnut if we excluded someone – unless for a specific reason – because we speak Gaelic and they don’t. Others might, Scots don’t.
“…and at worst an expression of dodgy blood-and-soil ethnic nationalism.”
That is possibly one of the most offensive things you have ever written.
“blood and soil ethnic nationalism”…? Speaking your mother-tongue, Gaelic, the ancient language of Scotland that still survives though almost destroyed by order of a foreign invading force..?
You can fuck right off with that talk. You should be fucking ashamed yourself. But, hey, well done in doing the Britnats’ work for them. Who needs the Mail, Express, Telegraph, Scotsman, Record, etc., eh.
“They’re a barrier to communication”
Says who, you the monoglot English speaker? Laugh out fucking loud!
“…and an irritation to the vast majority of the population”
An “irritation”…? A fucking irritation? Well, sorry that us 1.1% of the Scottish population who still live and breath the language and culture of our Scottish ancestors make you and the 98.8% English-speaking monoglots feel so uncomfortable, nay, “irritated” by us. Maybe we should be thrown off our lands, burnt out of our houses and left to either die in the snow or be shipped off to some unknown destination, never to return? What’s that? You did that already and it wan’t 100% successful? Ah well, better luck next time, eh!
“…who are made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land.”
Ranting lunacy. Black-comedy gold! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
So, 98.8% of the Scottish population “are made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land”..? Really? Really, really? Are we 57,375 (as of 2011) Gaelic speakers making the other 5,237,625 (as of 2011) feel like that, all “uncultured” and ET-like? Wow, who knew?! And who knew that 5,237,625 people in Scotland were so insecure, unconfident and troubled?
Just incredible stuff. Objectionable, bitter and cringe-inducing.
Has this site been hacked and taken over by Paul Dacre?
@ lollysmum who said “Sorry Stu but as an English speaker I have to disagree with you. When Wales started agitating for support for their own national language there were few Welsh speakers. They’ve since made huge strides in it’s use by introducing Welsh lessons into schools. Adverts for teachers etc ask for Welsh speaking candidates. Go anywhere in North Wales & you will hear Welsh being spoken.”
I am equally sorry that this comment displays a surprising ignorance that a short detour through Wikipedia could have rectified. I am half-welsh and am learning the language even though I will likely rarely use it. As ever it is important to start off with a few recognised facts. At least most people here understand how many speak Gaelic. As no-one was correcting this person I thought I should. If we’re going to use Welsh as a way of talking about issues of Gaelic usage we should not allow any errors to creep in to the analysis.
Why did we expect anything else ?
So Carmichael stays in office, a great big UKOK billboard of even more lies and corruption, for years.
The Rev’s mum has something to say…
link to youtube.com
Perhaps not a popular example but the decision to resurrect Hebrew into a living language for the land that became Israel is an unusual event in the history of languages. But it shows that if a people (or an imagined community) want something badly enough then a major linguistic upheaval is always possible.
It could be that in an independent Scotland a Gaelic language movement could arise seeking to mark the difference linguistically that a border would instigate. In deed IMHO it would be a racing certainty though how far it would grow is another matter.
“We might not be fans of Gaelic, but we’re a great deal more concerned that honking buffoons prone to parroting idiotic drivel from internet nutcases should somehow have found themselves in senior positions in the Scottish Parliament.”
In which case you shouldn’t join them by farting out equally buffoon-like diarrhoea about the uselessness of the language, which just makes you come across as another ‘nutcase’ ‘parroting idiotic drivel’ that proves you have made no effort to understand the true benefits of bilingualism, no matter what the second language happens to be.
Did you really just say that you find a minority Scottish language an irritant, simply because you don’t speak it yourself?
Did you really just accuse me, as a native Gaelic speaker, of ‘blood and soil nationalism’ because I happen to have spoken a minority language from birth? Please tell me I misunderstood you.
Dal I think he had too much Scrumpy and turned into a Morris Dancer? Lol.
Seriously though. I do agree Stu is out of his depth on this one. It might be a personal thing or he just hates Gaelic as a language.
Anyhow. It’s up to Stu to explain his post not me.
@ PhilJoMar better luck next time sweetie xx
[…] published a really stupid article today, and a really good article. Well, technically it was the same article, but both halves of the article were very interesting for different reasons. So, while I’ll […]
I’ve said many times on Wings that debate is healthy and an article such as this proves the point.
We’re a pretty diverse bunch here on Wings and all the richer for it, you will see disagreement somewhere BTL on most articles written on Wings though few produce so strong a reaction.
That’s the strength of Wings, controversy or disagreement with an article is not banned. This broadens the knowledge of the sites readers and when an article such as this today comes along it raises the profile of the topic under discussion.
That can’t be a bad thing.
I had been planning on making a post regarding Scottish Gaelic for a while, this post gave me an excuse to do so with a wee comment on this article:
link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
Short of it: I respond to the Reverend Stuart Campbell’s personal opinion with the deeply erudite and nuanced personal opinion that it is in fact he who is stupid and smells like a beetroot and probably secretly loves that thing he says he hates.
In all seriousness, though, it brings a tear to my eye seeing all the impassioned discussions about Scottish Gaelic. Rev’s opening paragraph was deliberately confrontational, and while the response isn’t exactly what he set out for, no-one can deny that the Bu Choirs have it in terms of volume and passion in this thread. And I do empathise with those who feel personally slighted by the Rev’s choices of words – but remember who the enemy is. If he’s a fifth columnist, he’s not doing a very good job undermining the movement, is he?
But Rev… please don’t do a post about how you hate dinosaurs and think they’re stupid. I can only be pushed so far, man.
Ghillie
By your definition, I’m proud to stand with you as a fellow lunatic!
I have been a member of the SNP for many years and, like many of my compatriots, spent time last year knocking doors in Scotland campaigning for Yes vote.
The inspirational element of the campaign was that it projected hope and a fresh vision as to what your nation could be as an independent country. A nation for all its people where respect for each other’s diversity would be central. The Gaelic language is one of those cornerstones, with support also for Lallands and recognition for the many other languages brought to Scotland by various, and more recent incomers (the New Scots).
Thanks for your kind words about my daughters. They loved Scotland when we were up with you last summer, and could understand the meanings of many place names on the bilingual signs because of the Gaelic rather than the bizarre English versions that made no sense. That feeling of kinship and shared cultural heritage is beautiful and priceless. Neither can insulting and ignorant comments (as has happened today on this site) be allowed to be made without challenge.
As far as ah’m concerned darlin’s the Rev ain’t got a point or leg ta stand on abaht Gaelic bein’ a defunct language – it’s just ‘e don’t get much culcher dahn sarf in Baff and ‘as to rely on us to wake ‘im up.
We may have got a great insight into how the Gaelic lobby will make their argument for funding, against other competing interests, in an independent Scotland.
If you’ll be wanting funds for cancer research, Scots language, road safety, children’s poverty, welfare, job creation, housing, healthcare or any other matter and that competes for the same funds as Gaelic;
or wanting to emphasise teaching Scotland’s history, German, the arts, Mandarin, mathematics, science, engineering, or computers, and that competes for the same classroom time as Gaelic;
will you receive the torrent of abuse Rev has for favouring an alternative priority?
I was sympathetic to the Gaelic cause when I woke up this morning. Far from making me more sympathetic, their abusive and quasi-racial assaults on Rev make me pause for thought.
He’s totally entitled to state a view where he’d place it among the competing interests for government money and attention without this level of abuse.
I fear it is some of the comments on here rather than Rev’s opening paragraphs that may give the Britnats their best propaganda.
Please think before you post, whether you are helping your cause or just venting your spleen.
The third paragraph of Stu’s article is, sad to say, the worst expression of the ‘mì-rùn mòr nan Gall’ , the ‘great ill-will of the Lowlanders’, I have encountered in a long time.
I have to wonder what he believes constitutes our nation in the first place. The drive for independence is based, surely, on an agreed feeling of national identity, in which language, place, culture, history, traditions, music, institutions etc. all play a part.
What, however, does he see as the origins and driving forces of this shared identity? Without this pre-existing concept our nation does not exist and all subsequent political, economic and social arguments anent independence are invalid.
The cultural aspect cannot be ignored; indeed, it is integrally tied to the other elements. The treatment of Gaelic language and culture over the centuries invariably reflects the linguistic, economic, political and social treatment of Scotland as a whole.
@ myfirstcomment – must try harder sweetie xx
@ Paula Rose I’ve no problem being flirted with or patronised by someone who at least answers my concern.
You avoided addressing Stu with your ‘dahn sarf in Baff’ remark, focusing on his English place of residence rather than his point.
And I get the ‘sweetie’ and the XXSs, which would be called sexism if a male had leveled it at a female rather than address her point.
So I ask again:
Will the Gaelic lobby put a cogent and reasonable case for government funding against other priorities, or will it just level abuse at people with other opinions, and suggest they are not proper Scots?
My first comment
Yeah not a great contribution. If during the debate on funding in an independent Scotland people call it or Scots, pointless, irritating and antagonistic …not too mention blood and soil nationalistic (without a shred of evidence because you know it is just bigoted tripe)then I think people will be rightly offended.
People are allowed an opinion but attack a whole culture and regurgitate hateful and damaging propaganda and unfounded assertion against it and expect a response.
The Rev gave the Britnats their best propaganda himself. No one else went on attack against an entire culture. He did it himself using British propaganda and hateful cliche and ridiculous assertion. Stop trying to blame ‘the Gaelic lobby’. The Rev knew it would be controversial and he said it anyway. Now he and you are trying to suggest that because people were upset by a comment he knew would be upsetting it is somehow us that are bigoted and trying to stop free speech. The Rev gets to say something I consider bigoted but I am not allowed to call him a bigot for saying it…??? Is that how free speech works? Is it me that is being abusive? I have merely called him out for being abusive to an entire culture. Does that make me abusive? Should I let anyone who wants to denigrate a culture using ridiculous and ignorant assertion and old propaganda do so because if I challenge them it is actually me that is being abusive?
I don’t think either of you have a leg to stand on. You don’t get to go around attacking cultures for no good reason and then act like the victim. Well you can but you just look ridiculous.
I have lost so much respect for the rev today. Not just for the attack itself but for the puerile and petulant responses to the criticism aimed at him. ‘is my site and Iwill say what I want…’ was a particularly disappointing example. As was “I’m not interested in the wildly intolerant Scotland that some of these people, and some of those from yesterday, would create – a Scotland where you have to not only DO what they want, but THINK what they want, in exactly the manner they deem it should be thought, with not the slightest deviation permitted.” What you mean like telling people their language and therefore culture is pointless and only exists to be aggressively antagonistic and/or blood and soil nationalist?? That they should all speak the same (modern English) way and have the same 19th Century ideas about progress and English and Britain’s place at the forefront of that? You are the one making value judgements about entire languages and cultures Rev. We merely disagree and think you have shown all the hall marks of bigotry and ignorant intolerance of another culture. I hope people in the newly independent Scotland will not be afraid to speak out against intolerance. Won’t be silenced by those seeking to say it is they themselves that are intolerant because they don’t like being called out for their obvious bigotry.
Don’t forget Rev we are merely voicing our outrage at your intolerance. I have not attacked your culture or way of doing things. Think what you want but that does not exclude you from being disagreed with and called a bigot when people genuinely believe you have behaved like one. It is their in black and white in the first three paragraphs.
People who complain about money being spent on Gaelic would be better directing their ire at the hugely disproportionate amounts that is spent on English culture. I just can’t see Gaelic as any kind of enemy and given that I happen to like Gaelic culture I think small amounts of public money spent on it is well worth it.
@myfirstcomment
A “Gaelic lobby” is not something you often come across.
Unlike other lobbyists such as private healthcare providers or those rewarded with a seat in the HOL who use their great wealth to influence the lawmakers by making large donations, primarily in their own interests.
The people of Scotland have little to fear from a “Gaelic lobby” but rather more from the latter.
The reasonable case for Government funding is that Gaelic language and culture deserve funding as Gaels are tax payers. It also deserves funding because most Scots and all major political parties support it. It also deserves funding because there is a will for the funding of projects and for people to learn it. It also deserves funding because it has a huge artistic repertoire which deserves a lot of research and sharing. It also deserves funding because it can bring in a lot of money (as the rev pointed out in the article). It also deserves funding because it has a history of being deliberately marginalised and legislated against, propagandised about and had xenophobic and racist ideas based on psuedo science directed against it. Some of these ideas about the Gaels being a backward race and archaic and antagonistic have been kept alive (as we have seen today) to the continued detriment of the language. It should also be funded because it is a strong part of Scotland’s cultural identity. It brings confidence and jobs and opportunities through Celtic Connections etc. It should also be funded because bilingualism/multilingualism education in the wider Uk has failed and bilingualism in a language like Gaelic can more easily lead to further languages being picked up. Also, because it can offer young people jobs and opportunities (many might not believe this but then they won’t have seen it first hand as I have). Also, because bilingualism is very good for the brain, makes people more tolerant of others (studies have shown) and makes people more agile thinkers.
People often try and make the case that Gaelic should not have money spent on it because there are more important things like cancer research and helping orphans etc. Does this work for English too? It is a stupid argument and is not like for like. I could just say it is better than spending money on WMDs or subsidising very rich people so they can continue to rip us all off and hide money offshore.
Gaelic should be supported for all these reasons but most importantly it should not have to keep explaining itself and being used as a political football by the ignorant. If people go to school in Gaelic medium they are not using just as, if not more, expensive English medium places. There should not be any need to justify this. They are not costing the tax payer anymore. Yet every time Gaelic medium schools are built we get it all over the papers and the subsidy myth is dragged back up.
Who said anyone isn’t a proper Scot? You are not just making it up ala rev Stuart are you?
myfirstcomment
Hi, is it not patently obvious that language is central to culture? Maintaining cultural diversity is considered essential to achieving sustainable development patterns and encouraging pluralistic democracy.
link to agenda21culture.net
Just thought I’d have a wee look before Baw Baws and I cannot believe we’re still on this so I’m going to come clean seeing as we’re making confessions
I can’t stand white dogs , they just don’t look right, I like Black dogs or Brown dogs even, but white, no way
OK I’m ready, I can take it on the chin, I’m a (insert abuse here) ( )
P.S. It might be argued that without the inclusion of ‘culture’ in the sustainability paradigm, the Agenda 21 project is little better than a charter to maintain and entrench the emergrnt global oligarchy.
P.P.S. Some might say a charter for a ‘New World Order’ of global corporatist oligarchy, managed by ‘experts’ through supranational Treaty rather than national law.
Well done Rev, you have with this post given the hopeless Scottish MSM another lesson in first-degree clickbait – and raised a serious point while at it.
Fair play to the Gaelic lobby in their efforts to keep their language alive. From my own, narrow, selfish viewpoint, if it wasn’t for Gaeldom, I wouldn’t be able to see so-much Scottish rugby, on BBC Alba – the fitba-first clique at Pacific Quay would make sure it never got shown on the English language service.
By the way, a native Gaelic speaker rugby writer of my acquaintanceship – the son of a Skye-born Glesca polis, was impressed when he persuaded Hugh Dan McLennan to show him examples of how some of rugby’s specialist technical terms had been Gaelicised for the Alba broadcasts. He was impressed by the thoughtful and sympathetic way this had been done. it showed him, Gaelic was far from a dead language.
As I said in my earlier post, I don’t speak what Robert Peffers identified as Lallans leid, but I understand it since it isn’t too-far removed from the Ayrshire dialect form of Scottish standard English which I spoke at home and in the play-ground, but, which was Lochgellied out of me in the class-room.
I wish, like a class-mate of my elder brother’s, who has written books in the language and speaks it naturally, I could converse fluently in Lallans. I wish too, Lallans was encouraged far more and would love to see the Scottish Government giving it financial backing.
However, I realise, they have bigger fish to fry at the moment, but, hopefully, some day – when we are independent, Lallans will be encouraged in the same way as Gaelic.
A wee final story. Many years ago, my late father, arriving at the Strand Palace Hotel in London, to register as a delegate to that year’s international (Robert) Burns Conference, was encouraged by the then Secretary of the international Burns Federation to: “Hae a word wi’ this lassie (the Head Receptionist) George – she says she speaks aicht languages”.
Approaching the young lady, my father said: “Aye lassie – ah taigelt langer than ah etlt gettin’ here”.
Blank look in return. My Faither hadn’t, I don’t think, spoken Ayrshire dialect, but Lallans.
Oh before I forget,
Nice to see you yesterday JLT I would do lunch today but Im finished my shift @ 14.30. 🙂
keep the faith.
Thepnr (hello 🙂 )
“A “Gaelic lobby” is not something you often come across.”
A Gaelic Lobby?
is that where you keep your wellies?
Ah’ll eh get ma Barbour coat and wellies!
What?
some of us shop at The House of Bruar,
kill me. 🙂
Domhnall MacCoinnich says (I have to copy and paste your name because I cant be arsed spelling it)
“The Rev gave the Britnats their best propaganda himself. No one else went on attack against an entire culture. He did it himself using British propaganda and hateful cliche and ridiculous assertion.”
Dear sweet Jesus do you people never sleep?
move on FFS!
There’s miserable and po faced but your abusing the privilege,
the only person giving the “britnats” propaganda is you,
SHUT THE HELL UP!
I started off finding this post highly amusing and then it got boring then I found a reason to saw my arms off then I lost the will to live!
link to Www.youtube.com
SERIOUSLY FOR FUCK SAKE GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!
Gillian Ruglonian you saved my life with your walk through the battlefield like sister Sara (two mules) which restored my belief in satire. 🙂
R type Grunt
at last the voice of reason
County wasn’t a typo was it?
Noo there’s a thing
an air ambulance is sent from the ROI to NornIrn to airlift an injured motorcycle race spectator to a NornIrn hospital!
quick somebody tell Broon,
he’ll soon put a stop to that nonsense!
Some might have noticed a certain antipathy towards “The Gaelic” in my previous posts, not so I don’t have a problem with it, I just don’t think it is a major feature of my life but I completely respect others right to cherish it and have no issue with road signs in both English and Gaelic,
What I do have a problem with is people who see anything other than a desire to force Gaelic down others throats as an existential threat to the very fabric of our country,
Oh my God we just got those idiots to stop calling us “braveheart separatists” because we saw a film, now they will be accusing us of wanting to paint our arses blue sing Pibrochs and live in a hole in the ground!
STOP ALREADY!
Blergh!
That went well then and Mr Carlaw who was the real villain of the piece, the real threat… well he got an easy ride.
The people who want to see an independent, modern, inclusive and tolerant Scotland don’t have to agree on every single issue, but we do have to know and agree upon who and what the real enemy is.
To be candid, there’s a lot of the English language as used by England’s politicians I cannot understand, but they get trillions in taxes and subsidies, and take over other people’s countries to keep things that way.
@ John King
who cares what ignorant Unionist propagandists think of us?
They will belittle any and every characteristic which marks us out as different. If we live as objects of others’ disdain there is little point in independence.
I’m looking for classes on Gaelic As A Second Language.
It would be good to be able to pronounce place names, hills and other topographical features properly.
Some of the best programmes on BBBC Scotland are made and broadcast by BBC ALBA – just thought I’d throw that in to annoy somebody , anybody.
As a non Gaelic speaker but a reasonable reader , I really have enjoyed them.
Your comments are poorly considered and below par here:
“””The obsolete language spoken by just 0.9% of Scotland’s population might be part of the nation’s “cultural heritage”, but so were burning witches and replacing Highlanders with sheep and we don’t do those any more either.”””
Demonising Gaelic, comparing it to burning witches – absurd
“””every extra fraction of a second spent scanning a road sign trying to find the bit you can read is a fraction of a second spent with your eyes off the road.”””
Drivers learning to read road signs manage very well – they arn’t confused, you might be but evidence please.
“””Non-primary native languages are a tool whose main utility in practice is at best the exclusion of outsiders,”””
Tripe – the national languages of the Celtic nations are beautiful and add to our culture – they are our culture and nothing to do with excluding anyone; you could say the same about NativeAmerican languages – they are better preserved than lost.
“””and at worst an expression of dodgy blood-and-soil ethnic nationalism.”””
I take it this is a joke.
“””They’re a barrier to communication and an irritation to the vast majority of the population, who are made to feel like uncultured aliens in their own land.”””
prove that trite statement
Save your ire for those who deserve it.
link to radicalsoapbox.com
Tucked away in rancid, SNP Scots.gov maybe not turning the Scotland region into a shithole, although that “rarely” is rather English of them-
link to archive.is
“Rarely are the differences between an English and Scottish minister so publicly exposed.
In Scotland, where 83% of land is privately owned, the SNP government will shortly introduce legislation giving it powers to intervene if the scale of land ownership and the conduct of a landowner is considered a barrier to sustainable development.
It also plans a Scottish land reform commission to help tenant farmers buy their holdings, amend the rights of succession so landowners can no longer leave estates to a single heir, and reintroduce business rates on sporting estates. This will help fund the doubling of community land ownership to one million acres to create “a fairer and more equitable distribution of land”, says Lochhead.
As he told me: “Any reasonable person would look at Scotland and recognise that the concentrated pattern of land ownership – Europe’s most extreme – can be an obstacle to economic development and … communities having a say over their own destiny.
It is a concentration of power and wealth that should be shared.” While in quiescent England the prospect of Scottish-style legislation remains slim, could the reformist waves from Scotland ripple across the border?”
How they all went ukok batshit crazy when they caught wind of it. If you can speak Gaelic you’re unbelievably lucky. If you voted Nicola Sturgeon, you can think too:D
This from Libby Carrell, interrupting her/his hols for the royals outrage at Sturgeon fun
Nicola Sturgeon denies plan to cut Scottish funding of royal family
@Capella 7.51am
Pronunciation of Gaelic really is easy once you know the rules. You can pronounce any new written word you come across even if you’ve never heard it said before. What a striking contrast to English!
Any beginners book will introduce you to these rules but that’s really dry and liable to put you off even before you start. Far more interesting and fun is to listen to words written on a screen being spoken out loud. That’s exactly what link to learngaelic.net does.
You’ll be amazed how quickly you start to get a feel for the rules and soon you’ll find yourself able to pronounce amazingly long and complicated looking words with ease and start to savour the wonderful sounds of this venerable old tongue.
Disappointed by this unnecessary spat.
As an Irish supporter of Scots Independence I am very aware of how difficult it is to get arguments across in the face of the power of the (British) State & institutions like the BBC.
So why cut a stick for your (Rev’s) enemies to beat you with?
But time to move on I’d suggest.
Capella says: “It would be good to be able to pronounce place names, hills and other topographical features properly.”
awks 4 u m8
Interestingly, but not surprisingly, many Unionists are keen to point out Shetland has/had it’s own language and are equally keen to highlight the ‘separate culture’.
I think Stu should have displayed a little more political nous. The rant about Gaelic should have been left out, perhaps for a separate discussion if he felt it was important. As Macart says, with one bound Carlaw was free and our enemies have been handed a free pass.