The independence debate at a glance
Posted on
April 24, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Three years summed up in two tweets:
(We’re kidding, of course. Normally the media isn’t nearly that balanced.)
I was surprised & happy James Cook put the positive case in his tweet, instead of the ‘warning’ & dooms laden headlines we’ve been used to lately. First time I’ve seen that way round.
Haha, I thought this was going to be the post with the collection of all the best bits from the last 2 years…
James Cook is worth following on twitter, he probably is the most balanced voice that the BBC has in the debate.
Parallel universe theory in action ?
And nothing will change all the way till Sept 18. It will be so important that people will be able to access online research with links to independent facts and figures, which we know are out there, that proves to NO’s and undecided’s that we can indeed be independent.
I saw a site simplify2014.com a few months ago which would do just that, and of course Wings is evidence based.
It will be more difficult to get to those who don’t do internet, but I guess that’s where the YES ground campaign comes in.
If anyone thinks James Cook is the most balanced then it just highlights how bad the rest are if it makes him look “balanced”.
Scottish nation statehood will not happen, end of.
Yours honestly, the BBC.
I’ve always found Alan Little to be well balanced and perhaps leaning towards YES. He gave Flipper a roasting on Hardtalk at http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b038rnsc/hardtalk-alistair-darling-british-chancellor-of-the-exchequer-20072010
OT: It looks like RGU is now out of the CBI: principal’s blog (last paragraph)
James Cook’s an alright guy. I quite like the way he sticks up for himself on Twitter as well. I certainly wouldn’t have him on the “List of BBC folk who should be sacked on the spot”.
Meanwhile the wee bauchle’s oot her bunker again…
I thought the Sun’s chief political correspondent made some interesting remarks on the debate earlier too:
https://twitter.com/schofieldkevin/status/458872947202347008
Even ignoring the source, that pretty much is the entire debate.
Westminster says we can’t, Holyrood says we can.
Add in a wee bit of pepper (pensions, currency, EU etc) and you have yourself what David Cameron probably thinks is a debate. Having watched PMQ’s a couple of times, I can imagine how he believes debate is run. Say something stupid, then shout down anyone else saying you’ve said something stupid.
Normally the media isn’t nearly that balanced
I thought recent Daily Express (pensions) headlines were perfectly balanced.
O/T
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-27132035
Don’t they want to be Better Together?
@Sandy Brownlee
Nice one. As I’ve said before, the CBI – the gift that keeps on giving.
James Cook tweeted the excellent National Collective Daily Express pensions photo-montage the other day. Just sayin’.
“Economic recovery?”
Finding a penny of a footpath can be categorised as a “recovery” when the entire western world is almost bankrupt from a self-induced collapse in its economic system.
Bunter, simplify2014 has as good as nothing on it at the moment and if they are just starting to put it together now it wont be complete before the referendum.
James Cook has a piece on line just now, regarding the BBC and the CBI
Hey, this laddie Cook…going up in my estimation
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27143426
Brave!
My post disappeared but James Cook has a piece on BBC online raising the issue of the BBC and CBI – hats off to you!
Sorry if this is a duplicate
My post disappeared too.
This dude’s as balanced as all BBC in Scotland “broadcasters” are eg. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27136390
So here we go and straight from BBC college of journalism/propaganda honours graduate we have “insisted, denied” as much as BBC online space allows-
“Alex Salmond has insisted, He insisted a “yes” vote would be, Mr Salmond denied that his plans, He insisted that the real, danger” and so on.
And then from same BBC ligger for Con/Dem/UKOK Carmicheal, or just one more pledgesigner on NO student fees etc Cooke writes,
“Responding to Mr Salmond’s speech, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said HS2 was an argument for remaining in the UK.”
Bish bosh vote no.
Aha, James Cook lifts the lid on the BBC and the CBI. Even better.
Would it not be interesting if AFTER a YES vote, and negotiations are complete and Independence day has passed.
That the Scottish Government of the day sue the BBC for going against their own charter in an International Court?
While trying to prevent Scottish democracy.
Just a thought!
Sincere apologies for going OT here:
The Bannockburn commemorations being held at Bannockburn Battlefield, Stirling, on Saturday 28 and Sunday 29 June are in danger of being diminished due to the MoD insisting on holding Armed Forces Day at the same time in the same City.
Appearing in front of the same committee, an official from the council revealed that the MoD named Stirling as the venue for armed forces day and insisted it be held on the same weekend as Bannockburn.
http://tinyurl.com/jvv3e2u
In view of the success of the 2013 March and Rally for Scottish Independence (circa 30,000 of us turned up – http://wingsoverscotland.com/readers-lives/), and seeing as the 2014 March and Rally for Scottish Independence has been cancelled, hows about we use the Bannockburn venue as an unofficial independence rally?
Get your Saltires back out of storage and turn up at Bannockburn – Then, when the MOD do their fly-over of Bannockburn Battlefield they’ll see that London’s attempt to thwart the Bannockburn event has failed completely.
Further info here: http://www.bannockburnlive.com/?gclid=CN7knduC-b0CFTMetAodrE8AOQ
Too many comments…can’t keep up…RGU has finally left CBI?
The BBC next up for shaving?
Is James Cook’s apparent neutrality his own doing, or has the BBC put him up to it, to try and give the impression of some balance.
RGU have ‘suspended’ their membership until the referendum. Didn’t one of their high heidyins have some links with the CBI?
Hoi Rev, pay your bills!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27054416
Why have The Royal Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale Bank not resigned from the CBI?
Is this the official position of the banks – they support the NO campaign?
So, will the blatantly biased BBC now leave the CBI? Or will they just come clean, and formally join with the CBI in campaigning for a vote against the restoration of democracy and Scottish independence?
As for Robert Gordon’s University, what does ‘suspending membership’ of the CBI ACTUALLY mean??? Or is it just spin? Devil is in the detail.
@Jimbo
If you look at the registration and payment page for Bannockburn they expressly state that campaign badges, posters, flags etc and campaigning for either side in the referendum will not be allowed in.
So your suggestion is a non-starter.
Jimbo says:
Jimbo, totally agree with your comments, a bad state of affairs. Ref the MOD, this, for sure, would have been a Westminster instruction. It is purely to try and belittle an important part of our history.( they do not want us to have any pre union history!) Whoever is really responsible should be put in stocks at Bannockburn and had rotten eggs thrown at them.
Business for Scotland’s pressure on the BBC over the CBI has just been on Reporting Scotland!
Sally nearly coughed up her capuchino.
@ Muscleguy:
Thanks for the info.
OK, forget the Saltires – we could still turn out en masse to make this event the success that London’s puppet masters hope it won’t be.
Barney Thomson – saw that. Sally Magnusson having to announce BBC/CBI membership position still to be responded to by BBC, really did stick in her craw – coughing through gritted teeth.
Jimbo is a WOS / national collective t shirt ok?
Jimbo is a WOS/ national collective t shirt ok?
If BBC don’t resign or, as RGU have done, suspend their membership of CBI until after the ref.,then shurely they can no longer be allowed to cover indy.
Has a petition been started yet? No sense having more than one on the go – will the guy who did the RGU one get it on the go?
RS/James Cook running it now on the news…here we go.
‘The BBC has yet to comment.’
Re Stirling
Go with Saltires and support our armed forces day. Might counter all the union flags if enough turned up?
@ Molly
I don’t see why not, Molly. Ill be wearing my WOS T shirt.
You can buy them here: http://www.cafepress.com/wingsoverscotlandmegastore/9374296
@Macandroid , quite aggree there, & make sure you’s are
in numbers around the Camera’s positions.
No way we could afford tickets to Bannockburn, but could prob be in Stirling on the day…is there a law saying we can’t wear our YES badges then? I might print a couple of saltires onto my white troosers as well…
The Westminster Gov will always pay pensioners their pension what that monies will be worth is a diffrent matter.
Actually, I think I prefer Macandroid’s suggestion – and have Saltires outnumbering all the others.
Just to check I am not going mad, you can not take a saltire to Bannockburn celebration day ?
But you can take a union flag to armed forces day, on the same day, during a referendum build up because one flag is showing political bias and the other somehow does not ?
Imagine if Robert the bruce was told if he turned up to face the English at Bannockburn and was told, “sorry mate, you cannot come here dressed like that…..move on nothing to see here”
The flag of our nation banned from a historical event in our nation’s history.
Those union flags on armed forces day will presumably be banned if the Scottish part of the design is not removed then ?
I know their is a fundraiser for 10,000 Saltires, on the go, but can’t remember where. Perhaps the idea behind that is to flood Bannockburn with Scottish flags. And why not? If they tried to arrest all of us for waving OUR flag at Bannockburn celebrations – very, very, very bad BT publicity for their WW1 celebrations. After all, was WW1 not supposed to be a fight for our freedom?
Just looked up the Bannockburn site and read that the Bannockburn celebration can’t be held on the actual date (24th June) because the National Trust are having the new Centre opening event on that day. Naturally that is a more important event than the 700th Anniversary of the battle. The date of the opening obviously can’t be moved but the date of the battle can. By an amazing coincidence, Armed Forces Day (wasn’t that Gordon Brown’s invention) is to be held in Stirling on exactly the same wrong date as the Bannockburn celebration. Armed Forces day marks the 70th anniversary of D Day and 2014 marks the outbreak of WW1 so many flags will be in evidence. I look forward to seeing the pics!
STV quit the CBI 4 days ago. The BBC are still thinking about it. Why didn’t they resign from it immediately? Rhetorical question – we all know the answer.
“If BBC don’t resign or, as RGU have done, suspend their membership of CBI until after the ref.,then shurely they can no longer be allowed to cover indy.”
Logically this is absolutely correct, and the Electoral Commission should be alerted to this if BBC still have not resigned after the official campaign starts. However I can’t find any reference to broadcasters in the EC website, so yet again it looks like the state has it all sewn up.
Deliberate, or what?
I smell something rotten in the National Trust, pressure put on them to alter dates and I would not go to the Armed Forces Day for that very reason. This is terrible that no Saltires are allowed, allowed for god’s sake at the site of the most important battle in our history. Robert Bruce will be turning in his grave, there will be an earthquake at the Abbey in Dunfermline.
They cannot stop people with Saltires. No chance.
@ Helena Brown
The National Trust is chaired by Sir Kenneth Calman, dad of Susan Calman, and formerly chief Medical Officer of Scotland and England. So perhaps there was no need to apply very much pressure? I would expect Stirling council is also very happy to combine these two prestigious events into one weekend – the wrong one.
@ Muscleguy
“If you look at the registration and payment page for Bannockburn they expressly state that campaign badges, posters, flags etc and campaigning for either side in the referendum will not be allowed in.
So your suggestion is a non-starter.”
I have been all over the Bannockburn site and the ticket soup terms & conds . I can not find the info that you have posted above. Would you mind posting a link as I would like to take a flag (just a plain saltire) .
Cheers C
Full terms & conditions of Bannockburn Live
http://www.ticketsoup.com/ecards/default.ashx?id=3069
Nothing there about banning saltires, political banners etc
@Jamie Arriere
Having a huge YES banner I could see causing some issues , but a plain saltire ! It is still the flag of Scotland after all .
If Muscleguy could enlighten me with a link, I would appreciate it .
It’s probably the case that there’s no Yes Campaign (or Better Together) stalls at the event – knowing Stirling Council, it was probably a condition of the licence – but there’s nothing stopping paying customers turning up with whatever they want (except weapons, dogs, barbecues, professional video equipment etc as stated in the conditions)
WTF? GET ME OUT OF HERE (UK)
Barclays approved higher bonuses despite a 30% fall in profits. http://bbc.in/1f6uE5N
You people are obsessed with claiming the BBC (and everyone who isn’t biased towards your opinions) is biased.
They aren’t, they are probably one the least biased news sources (cue snorts of indignation).
The guy tweeted two separate Yes and No arguments, how on earth can he be more unbiased?
The BBC is obsessed with avoiding criticism and treading lightly, seems like Scottish nationalists manage to be so sensitive – or maybe disingenuous – that they can never be “balanced” enough, unless they are “balanced” in favour of the Yes argument and against anything that seems a bit Londonish.
“The guy tweeted two separate Yes and No arguments, how on earth can he be more unbiased?”
I don’t think anyone used those tweets as evidence of bias.
@Tom – We’re not obsessed just observant
http://wingsoverscotland.com/fairness-in-the-first-year/
https://tinyurl.com/ld7o6dx