Actually lost for words
Posted on
April 24, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Tomorrow: “‘Eat that pie and you’ll get fat’, says Pickles”.
1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks 
-
24 04 14 09:02
Actually lost for words | FreeScotland
Ignored
The headline for the cut is apropos.
Scotland News
Your source for all the latest political and economic news and anal
Chapeau!
Hypocrisy. It’s what the Tories do best, Isn’t it?
Feel that positivity.
…As opposed to “vulnerable people WILL lose benefits in the UK”… Hmmmmm…(Scratches chin)…I think I will open the box..
On another note, regarding asking Labour MPs for clarification about the new taxation proposals, I emailed Katy Clark MP in March, when the suggestion first came out on WoS, and got no reply, so I sent several reminder emails, and got no reply, so I tweeted, and got no reply, so I stuck up a couple more tweets to see what happens. Does anyone know how, short of actually phoning their number, or turning up on their doorstep how one gets one’s paid representative to actually deign to respond to any genuine queries about their parties taxation policies? After all, she is paid three or four times the salary that I do, so I would assume she works at least three or four times as hard, or did I get that wrong???
…Trust me I’m a Tory!
Would I lie to you?
@Peter Mirtitsch
There are a lot of carriages on the Westminster Gravy train and some of them are very well insulated indeed (if not, in fact, hermetically sealed).
Third paragraph of the Telegraph article refers to the Scottish Nationalist Party. Insert klaxon sound here.
I think he means the vulnerable people in ENGLAND will lose their benefits if Scotland becomes independent, as Scottish oil, whisky and other resources will not be bank rolling Westminster any more!
No wonder you are speechless Stu! It’s unbelievable the absolute lying rubbish these people spout from their hypocritical mouths!
On the plus side – does ANYONE seriously believe anything Ian Duncan Smith says?
Their arrogance knows no bounds..
an independent Scotland would require a new IT system to deliver benefits which could take years to develop and cost up to £400 million
Have we not helped pay for the system that’s already in place?
Very convincing argument from Mr Duncan Smith. An independent Scotland could be forced to enact horrible legislation like a cap on benefits spending, a tax on extra bedrooms, privatisations of the NHS, health testing ill people to force them off benefits, charges for prescriptions, charges for education. A list of horrors we can only avoid by voting No and staying in the union where certainty is guaranteed.
“Iain Duncan Smith said that an independent Scotland would require a new IT system to deliver benefits which could take years to develop and cost up to £400 million.”
Because you’re too stupid to do it any other way than the way Westminster would do it.
🙂
“Bedroom Tax”.
I notice that IDS is not paying us a visit today to tell us of the impending doom WHEN we become an Independent Nation.
And WTF has an Independent Scotland’s welfare plans got to do with this spineless piece of shit.
I have come across two people on benefits who say they are voting NO. A quick reminder about the trend towards Westminster dismantling the benefits system gives them pause for thought.
Peter Mirtitsch
You could always start to remind her of The Representation of the People Act and an MP’s legal responsibility.
The vile, disablist, nazi slogan spouting IDS and his highly politicised right-wing civil servants at the DWP refuse to tell the public how many tens of thousands of disabled patients have so far been killed by their quack “work is good for health” snake-oil cure.
How anyone can share the same public political platform with this truly evil man is beyond me. But then again, it’s Better Together we’re talking about here.
Yesterday Mike Sivier at Vox Political blog attended a Tribunal to try to force the DWP to release figures on the number of deaths of patients and disabled people caused by the DWP’s neoliberal disability denial ESA regime. Based on currently available data, the figure does run into the tens of thousands of helpless, defenceless disabled victims –
Freedom of Information tribunal on benefit deaths – April 23
http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2014/04/22/freedom-of-information-tribunal-on-benefit-deaths-april-23/
I note the Totygraph article is closed for comments.
Giving Steven Swinford the benefit of doubt, let’s assume he is not completely ignorant. So shall we just put it down to him having a bad morning, or just stark bad manners at least, that he calls the Scottish government the “Scottish Nationalist Party”.
Mr Duncan Smith said “This country has a long history of a strong welfare state, which we can rightly be proud of. As part of the UK, Scottish people benefit from this resilient and unified system – which delivers the same support everywhere irrespective of peaks and troughs in economies of the nations or demographic differences.
A clear admission the benefits system is not designed to address thee structural advantages enjoyed in London and the south-east, due largely to massive infrastructure investment. Where is a reciprocal investment made into the fabric of Scotland? How embarrassing that he let his inner imperialist peek out, with the “This country” tosh, when referring to the UK.
@ Iain Duncan Smith
Might you have overlooked the likelihood that spending priorities will be radically different in iScotland. For a start, we will no longer be funding the world’s forth best funded military. Away and think it through a bit more.
P.S. Didn’t his boss not say the indyref was a matter for the Scots? 🙂
Ed Miliband has promised that The labour Party will be TOUGHER than the Tories on welfare reforms.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/12/labour-benefits-tories-labour-rachel-reeves-welfare
Tomorrow: “‘Eat that pie and you’ll get thin’, says Pickles”.
I found words, but none of them are appropriate for a public forum.
Isn’t this the Tory solution for everything?
No job?
You could lose your benefits
Foreign?
You could lose your benefits
Scottish independence?
You could lose your benefits
Global financial crisis?
You could lose your benefits
Russia annexation of Crimea?
You could lose your benefits
Climate change?
You could lose your benefits
Pass me the milk would you please?
You could lose your benefits
I’m new to this (the posting part) so hope to get it right…
Cannot believe the absolute arrogance and totally blinkered comment from Iain Duncan Smith..does he really think we’ve missed every move to starve out the common masses and deprive needy people of the money they are entitled to ?
The continuing ‘hate’ campaign against people who require benefits distresses and appalls me..yet here he is advocating that Scotland would deprive them even more..he’s clearly been doing his arithmetic homework with that Gordan Brown chap..(we know he’s a bit slow on the uptake) maybe not the best study partner..
IDS makes me angry. Very angry. The coalition’s treatment of the poor/disabled is one of the strongest reasons I’m voting yes.
Anybody interested, here is an account of Karen Sherlock (RIP), just one disabled victim amongst the tens of thousands of victims of the disblist tory Ian Duncan Smith and his orwellian-kafkaesque DWP.
This is what all disabled people under the Westminster neoliberal disability denial regime have to face up to, and recognise that it could happen to them too, simply for the crime of being too sick and disabled to work in the UK today –
How many more disabled people will die frightened that their benefits will be taken away?
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/voices/2012/06/disability-karen-sherlock-sue-marsh
@scottish_skier
To add another one:
Elevation to the House of Lords?
You could get free money and subsidised champagne.
Simple question … will this vile gutter propaganda hinder or help the Yes cause?
It may scare a few folks, but the majority of people, anywhere, will be deeply offended that IDS could stope this low. So my feeling is … another own goal from BT … some more Don’t Knows converted to Yes.
@Helen McClean
Weel said and totally agree with your assessment.
A few years back I was in a waiting room somewhere, and picked up the Torygraph and came across an article by Boris Johnson (first time I heard his name) and it was so disparaging against the Scots and Scotland I haven’t been able to stomach the man since. He went on about whinging Scots, getting more than their fair share of benefit subsidies, Barnett formula too excessive etc, etc. Yet the same man in the same newspaper, late last year, made an appeal to the Scots to stay in the union as he liked us, our whisky, our porridge even.
This is the total hypocrisy these people treat us with and we are better rid of them. These people are not worth listening too but heaven help us if anyone does listens to their rhetoric.
an independent Scotland would require a new IT system to deliver benefits which could take years to develop and cost up to £400 million
As a database programmer, I’d be up for the challenge 🙂
“Iain Duncan Smith said that an independent Scotland would require a new IT system to deliver benefits which could take years to develop and cost up to £400 million.”
OH NO, NOT COMPUTERS! We’re just dumb Jocks, we don’t understand computers!
The Tories’ change to the universal benefit, of course, requires absolutely no change to any IT systems. Oh no, wait, the other thing.
Besides, if this is a valid argument, then it also means welfare can’t be devolved to Scotland. Perhaps Labour should have just used that as their reason for the lack of ambition in their DevoNano proposals? “Urgh, there’ll be too many admin costs!”
What do others take it mean when BT and their media bitches say Scottish National-IST Party?
Is it an ignorant mistake, or is it some subliminal message tactic to talk the SNP down?
Lost on me, whatever it means. I think it’s just rude, but what else would you expect from the Conservativists Party?
As for not affording a decent welfare state in an independent Scotland, don’t forget a large slice of the current welfare budget (shared between the DWP and HMRC) goes straight into the bank accounts of private landlords in the form of Housing Benefit.
Another chunk of the welfare budget, called Tax Credits, is a taxpayer-subsidy to rich employers who refuse to pay their workers a wage they can live on. It encourages employers not to pay decent wages just like the DWP Work Programme encourages them not to employ workers when the DWP can supply them for free at taxpayer expense.
So the “vulnerable people” the spectacularly inept and thic IDS is referring to include rich Tory landlords, Tory buisness people and Tory shareholders. In other words, the parasitic British welfare state for the rich.
Reference –
Guardian Datablog –
UK welfare spending: how much does each benefit really cost?
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/08/uk-benefit-welfare-spending
I have 2 words for him… Bedroom Tax!
Slightly O/T. Mr Naughtie on BBC GMS at 07:10 interviewed Ms Sturgeon about DWP claims that an independent Scotland could not cope with the administration of welfare benefits. He interrupted and contradicted almost every answer that Ms Sturgeon gave.
One hour, later a recorded interview with the Secretary of State for Portsmouth was played and Mr Carmichael was asked about the answers that had been given by Ms Sturgeon; “Nicola Sturgeon said this…what do you think Mr Carmichael? Ms Sturgeon said that…what do you think Mr Carmichael?” and so it went on. There were no interruptions or contradictions and it was obvious that Carmichael and Naughtie were working as a double act. Pre-arranged questions giving Mr Carmichael and his team plenty of time to prepare responses – he was almost answering the question before it got asked. What a stitch up.
OT, posted this last night at the tail end. Shadow Home secretary Yvette Cooper making visit today to Inverness Eden Court at 5.30 along with David Stewart local MSP.
So this is all very cloak and dagger with invitations sent initally, then location only being disclosed on receipt of acceptance email…but hey, Kitty does say to “tell your friends” about it so I’d better do just that…
“Thank you very much for signing up to attend our meeting with the Rt. Hon. Yvette Cooper MP tomorrow night in Inverness. The meeting is being held at the Eden Court Theatre, Bishops Rd, Inverness, IV3 5SA. Registration begins at 5pm for a 5:30pm start, and tea and coffee will be served on arrival. Yvette will be joined on the panel by David Stewart MSP, and there will be a chance to put your questions to them during the meeting.
If you have any questions about tomorrow evening, please don’t hesitate to get in touch.
I look forward to seeing you tomorrow v night.
Best wishes,
Kitty
—
Kitty Raven
Events Officer
Better Together
0141 332 4634
Tell your friends about us”
Ok I shall…
£400 million ? Is that not roughly what Scotland pays per month
towards the national debt?
@aitchbee
As a Financial Services developer, I’ll help you 🙂
On GMS now..it is NOT Scotland ‘s oil says Prof Collier. WOW Naughtie is back from Holiday!
To Grouse Beater on earlier thread
Not only that but, could you imagine a referendum in Ukraine right now on splitting the country, with 20 million Russian residents registering at one flat in Severdonetsk so they can get a postal vote?
Could someone with a better memory than I please remind me exactly what this pathetic failed ex-leader of the Conservatives has ever successfully contributed to humanity that we should pay the slightest attention to anything he has to say?
O/T. Whilst in the RAF I served for several years on 43 Squadron at RAF Leuchars. The interception of Russian aircraft was a regular weekly/daily occurrence. Funny how a simple operational interception made national news at this particular time.
The BBC and Better Together are taking us for complete fools.
Give the man some credit, I think he has a similar level of experience in expensive complex IT systems for administering benefits, as Gordon Brown has in securing the long term stability of pension provision.
IDS warns the vulnerable could lose benefits in an independent Scotland. Says the man removing benefits from people in the UK
Orwell and Kafka had nothing on him did they.
O/T. 06.30 this (Thursday) morning on radio 4 Today programme. Some professor(?) claiming that it wasn’t Scotland’s oil because when it was discovered the UK deemed it to be a common good. This “argument” was countered by someone from Inverness who said it didn’t matter because there was hardly any oil left!
The discussion wasn’t repeated ag during the next two and a half hours of the programme
Katy Clark is my MP too and she was very prompt in replying to my emails regarding the Bedroom Tax. Detailed replies too! I wonder if she finds it impossible to spin this one.
Nicola slays the Naughtie dragon on this topic:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27138038
Excellent article on IDS by wee ginger dug. Its all out war on indy the noo, trying max scare levels for upcoming polls this weekend no doubt. They badly want those numbers reversed!
Famous 15
I think he was on Radio 4 as a dry run for the Naughtie knocker later on Radio Scotland.
Is that the same guy who said under African precedent parts of countries cannot secede with their riches?
What a walloper. He is not a Professor of International Law as he would have understood that Scotland is a Country within the United Kingdom, with its own Laws and agreed International Territorial Rights. That has never been disputed by Whitehall.
The African countries were cobbled together by colonial conquerors on ad hoc bases designed to allow the colonial powers access to regional defendable natural resources, means of extraction, and repatriation of the lucre.
The “other side” was a Welshman from Inverness (a consultant I think and I smell shite) who said that 80% of the oil was already extracted and anyway we would only be entitled to a population share but would have to pay all the decommissioning costs.
It was like Amateur Night at some crappy Comedy Club in Barnsley and I was shouting “next at the radio quite frequently.
The positivity of the Better Together campaign just shines through! It’s as if they just can’t help themselves, in fact it’s like a form of political Tourettes Syndrome.
THE BBC HAS REPLACED NICOLA’s INTERVIEW WITH CARMICHAEL. She was obviously too good and they have binned it. They are at it!
Radweesis, she is my MP too and I tend to agree with you.
@tom
You beat me to it.
As I said a well balanced BBC Amateur Night spot that was.
You have to admire the chutzpah of the pro-Brit blatts quoting Ian Duncan Donut as if he’s some kind of expert on IT.
I posted this before on WOS, but here is news of the latest DWP IT management wonk to disappear without a trace under the wheels of the IDS’s Universal Carcrash IT system –
DWP CIO Andy Nelson steps down
http://www.cio.co.uk/news/cio-career/dwp-cio-andy-nelson-steps-down/
@Tom the oil nonsense was repeated around8.30 on GMS. It was wierd as it was truncated as if it was dropped in as subliminal propaganda. This is vile!
Aye, I heard the toad Carmichael spouting the same rubbish as IDS, with a sycophantic Naughtie playing the fool.
I can’t be the only one who longs for the 19th September when we can wave goodbye to this crowd of hypocrites and troughers, be they politicians like Carmichael or ventriloquist’s dummies like Naughtie. A plague on all of them, and to hell with ‘reconciliation’.
@bugger
Why that lunatic was given a platform on radio Scotland, I can’t imagine (well I can, actually) Mentioned Biafra and Katanga as ‘resource secessionists’ that ‘were stopped’. Any mention of South Sudan? No.
Now the Guardian is reckoning our banks will do an Iceland.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/23/scotland-independence-agency-rates-scottish-banks
Send them to London, simple.
I thought they were going to stop the negativity? Oh that’s right warning us of ‘real’ problems is not being negative, apparently.
That professor is most likely the professor of African studies, who had an article in the FT at the weekend spotting this absolute bilge. He is an imperialist Brit nat through and through.
Oh how I wish it was 17th Sept,
because then I would know that in the morning I would have the power to vote these shower of patronising,(stuck for words because I am so angry)b*****s out of my life.
No, no, no ….Yes
The link you gave still works
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27138038
temporary fluke?
..And the front page of the Daily Mail spawned Metro – Going bust: Scotland’s firms failing’. The Scotland calumniators are going at it full tilt.
Henry McLeish and Malcolm Chisholm must be loving the positivity.
Peter Mirtitsch
I have had no response from Katy Clark either, only send the original email. Was going to chase it up but seeing that you are getting no response I might just wait until the next surgery and go and see her face to face.
I used to have a lot of respect for her as a constituency MP, but unless she gets her finger out and starts responding to genuine constituents concerns then she is the same as the rest of that inept Labour crew.
A total waste of space and the sooner she is out of a job the better.
Well only someone brain dead would believe a word uttered by a liar. IDS is a proven one, even the Biased BBC proved that, I wonder if they would have bothered today. They certainly did in 2003.
Note to self, stay calm.
Benefit cuts creating new generation of entrepreneurs, Bank of England suggests.
Iain Duncan Smith hails Britain’s ‘entrepreneurial spirit’ after Bank of England suggests welfare reforms are encouraging people to become self-employed.
WTF? Is this serious? It cannot be. Did someone put something in last nights whisky?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10783556/Benefit-cuts-creating-new-generation-of-entrepreneurs-Bank-of-England-suggests.html
Arabs for Independence… I was thinking the exact very same thing. The Russian Aircraft thing happens extremely frequently. What we saw was propaganda from Westminster and their BBC mouthpiece.
George Orwell explains elequently through the novel 1984, that oppressive governments create bogeymen to frighten the people into unquestioning obedience… ‘V for Vendetta’ is about this issue too. The London establishment will increase the drip rate in feeding this to the Scottish people right up to September 18th.
482,756 people signed this petition regarding today’s headline grabbing Better Together expert champion –
Iain Duncan Smith: Iain Duncan Smith to live on £53 a week.
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/iain-duncan-smith-iain-duncan-smith-to-live-on-53-a-week
Needless to say, like so many other assertions and claims made by Better Together supporting public personages, IDS’s claims turned to dust when the public took it upon themselves to intervene directly in the matter and hold him to account (technically known to as “internet abuse” in BT-speak) –
Iain Duncan Smith calls petition for him to live on £53 a week a stunt
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/02/iain-duncan-smith-petition-stunt
Since becoming Welfare Secretary, Ian Duncan Smith has discovered something he’s good at.
At last, he has found a really useful purpose in the Tory & Unionist party. He now feels he is where he belongs, and doing something that, well, comes naturally i.e., giving vent and parliamentary force to those deep-rooted feelings of disgust and contempt that the Tories harbour toward the poor and the disabled.
After all, why, oh why, oh why, should money be spent on the disdvantaged when that money could be enjoyed by those who already have plenty – and who vote Tory.
Ian will continue in this same vane whenever he is asked by the No Machine to spout threats and warnings over the wall to where the undeserving live.
Well, let’s face it, wouldn’t you ask someone who loves doing it ?
Why did BBC Scotland GMS do a live interview with Nicola Sturgeon and only a recorded, edited interview with Ian Carmicheal.
And when was his interview recorded. Was this done last night, with BBC Scotland playing it’s part in the whole Better Together all out attack.
Why wasn’t IDS not in the studio doing a live interview on such a critical part of the Independence debate.
Project Fear is coming back to life.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
There is one way to rid yourself of this never ending
fear and chaos that BBC Scotland tries to put into your life day in day out,
Vote YES Sept 18th 2014. Simples!
Get angry People!
This is the “get your retaliation in first” tactic. If we tell the truth about IDS and benefit cuts it shall be construed as “sour grapes”.
Far to late for that tactic now.
Despicable!
Nationalist and Nationalsozialistische is a link too far for me! Utterly despicable!
Mention in passing every time the SNP is miscalled. This is deliberate. Every time.
@Training Day:
In fairness, the article doesn’t really mention much about Independence or the Scottish Government except a little bit at the end about oil and gas. It largely talks about how businesses and people tend to go bankruptcy after coming out of recession rather than during it. The Metro seems to mostly ignore Independence in my experience except for tiny articles slotted into random places.
If you want the proper bampottery, check the Metro letters pages. There’s usually at least one no voter talking absolute nonsense there a day.
The last referendum was the one on PR, awarded to the Lib Dems for signing up to the Tory government. There are many reasons for supporting PR, but at the time the Tories (and indeed Labour) conducted a very hostile campaign against it, not least because it threatened their seats. As we know the vote rejected PR. I believe that this success has emboldened the Tories, Labour and even the Lib Dems, and is the reason why Better Together have not tried to make the case for being better together. And let’s be honest – even as a now committed yes I can see that there are some (albeit diminishing) positives as part of the UK.
However, this hostility will be self-defeating this time. The unionist front will begin to crack since pronouncements of this type by IDS and others are so contrary to reality.
Listened to the garbage that passed of as a ‘debate’ this morning on GMS between Paul Collier a prof from England and another guy in Inverness.
Collier spouted, based on his ‘African studies’ that Scotland’s resources do actually belong to Scotland and the Inverness guy on for supposed balance spouting that the oil has ran out anyway.
You really couldn’t make this shit up from the bias broadcaster!
Naughtie was useless as a chocolate teapot (polite version of what I was thinking)
There was no balance, no proper debate, despite Naughtie’s ‘locking horns’ bull shit it was just two tangent approaches to attacking Scotland
This crap followed the Carmichael shmooshing
The we have the phone in with Wark. Now answer me this, Wark did the Newsnight shift last night till 11.20 last night, does this mean the BBC fly her up each night on the last flight to do the phone in, or is she doing it from London?
Roll on September 18th and waiving bye bye to the BBC garbage gravy train
[rant over]
@ Muscleguy
That part of the S&P report is a straightforward lie
Iceland did indeed guarantee depositors funds for Icelandic people. What it did not do was guarantee deposits from foreign depositors, notably those from the UK and the Netherlands, who put their money in Icelandic banks because they can’t get a break even rate of interest in UK banks.
It is certainly true that in order to take the Icelandic route you need a sovereign currency: it is one of the reasons I wish to see that established in Scotland
But if you are interested in how Iceland dealt with the exact same problem we faced in the UK and, indeed, all over the world then see here
http://thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net/?t=46943326&p=373912947
which is an account of the court case on exactly this point
You will note that the rules have since been changed with the aim of forcing states to bail out banks, now that it has been established they had no obligation to do that. But whether those rule changes are effective or not in achieving that aim is moot: because if the state cannot pay then it is much the same as passing a law against gravity.
The point is that S&P found on the notion that states are the ultimate guarantors no matter what the banks do and that is called “moral hazard” in another part of the forest, and it is a bad thing
As with pensions, the same pro-Brit blatts and the same Westminster neoliberal political parties are claiming the UK can’t afford the current UK welfare state. Yet when it comes to Scottish independence they’re claiming that somehow the British welfare state is affordable. I wish they’d make up their minds.
Autumn Statement 2013: Britain can no longer afford welfare state, warns Osborne
The Telegraph
02 Dec 2013
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/10487295/Autumn-Statement-2013-Britain-can-no-longer-afford-welfare-state-warns-Osborne.html
@TheeForsakenOne
Aye, but the context of the indyref is everything, just as it is when headlines blare ‘Brown warns of pensions black hole’. The content of the article doesn’t matter, only the headline.
And I’ll wager that the Metro in England didn’t run with a front page of ‘Going Bust: England’s firms failing’. Nor would it dream of doing so.
@Nan 8.22
Excellent first time post.Just keep firing them in now !.
How does this play out on the ground?
Do British Labour better together activists point to this and say it must be right because IDS says so? IDS is the source of their views on the possible future framework of Scotland’s society?
Well things are really ramping up against us across the board. Firstly, Ref,Bannockburn, the Forces day IS damaging the whole event, in order of course to deflect from our history, utterly shameful.There no depths they will not sink to. Stirling Council should be held to account for requesting this.
Secondly, Apparently it is not Scotland’s oil,despite International normals, we will not own our own oil.( on this basis would WE not also own the shale oil/gas under England?, do not think they considered that when finding some “expert” to do their dirty work )
Thirdly, Scotland will not be able to administer Pensions nor be able to pay for them. ( The UK is technically Bankrupt )Evidence is that we certainly can afford them, when compared to the finances of the UK.(I take it WE all read the Express shambles?)
Fourthly, The bias of the BBC was ever prominent this morning in the Interview with Nicola Sturgeon, a poor interview by McNaughty in line with BBC bias Policy.Made even worse by Nicola’s short interview when compared with the ramblings allowed by the Secretary of State for Portsmouth.
The BBC deserve to be chucked out of an Independent Scotland they ARE a disgrace, and have no doubts about it they want to thwart Scottish democracy.
Fifthly, Westminster is using huge UK resources to effect the outcome via their use of Government Departments against Scotland’s democracy. Their churned out “papers” ect ect. The best of it is we pay our share towards these UK departments, so we are enforced to help pay for work done against us. You could not make it up. The costs of all this need properly assessed.
Pheew, more later, and there many many ways they are working to undermine the will of the Scottish people. We need to be resolute.
@ Alan Mackintosh
If we had known about this ‘event’ my hubby and I would have gone along. Doubt there will be a question and answer session allowed,hoping you will give us a summary perhaps even a little phone video?
@Arabs for Independence
Also thought that this was a strange non-story. I think they are trying paint the picture that the mighty RAF saved Scotland again.
They said the Russian jets were in international air space, so what was the problem?
They also said the Royal Navy was “shadowing” Russian ships, who were also in international waters. So were was the immediate threat to Scottish security?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27130125
While we’re on the subject of RAF jets and Royal Navy ships, have you ever met a Scottish Jet fighter pilot or a Scottish Commander of a Royal Navy ship or submarine.
The Armed Forces top brass seem to think that ships, subs and jets can only be in the control of the English Home Counties fraternity.
Know what I mean Old Chap. Tally Ho!
Best comment so far on the guardian IDS yarn.
• This is a joke, isn’t it? I mean you wouldn’t, would you? Cameron, Osborne, Clegg, Brown – and now Ian Dipped Inshit. This is a campaign to secure Scottish independence, isn’t it? What’s next from the nae-sayers, an open-top bus tour of Falkirk by Nigel Farage dressed in an Edward Longshanks costume? Or why don’t they just start a campaign to have Burns Night replaced by ‘Margaret Thatcher Evening’? Perhaps, instead of ‘piping in the haggis’, we could have ‘rah, rah, rah-ing in the Eton Mess’? Please, someone tell them to stop: much more of this and I’ll piss myself laughing into an early grave.
Obviously, and like most intelligent people in The UK, I gave up voting decades ago. But oh my God/Dawkins (delete as appropriate), how I wish I lived in Scotland and could ‘come out of retirement for a day’, this September – Brigadoon like, I fancy – just to send one final, very large, very personal ‘fuck off’ from me to that appalling collection of detached, self-serving, delusional arseholes in Westminster.
It doesn’t need a third-rate Westminster politician to insult Scotland. We have councillors who can do that.
I am more concerned about the Scots in Scotland demeaning their own people and nation, doing all they can to keep it subservient.
For example, Stirling council, (Labour-Tory) organising the Armed Forces Day to sit next to Bannockburn Live commemorations on the 28 June as a spoiler.
Have they no honour?
It defies belief that such a small country as ours will screw up a profound debate on its constitution and its democracy by stooping to such pettiness and rancour, but there it is for all to see.
The British establishment barely needs to lift a finger to keep control of Scotland.
Are comments disappearing again? I though I put one in and it didn’t appear.
If the is the same Iain Duncan smith that said he could live on £50 a week to justify his savage cuts on the welfare system, then I am not sure anyone will take anything he says seriously.
He does come across as a bit of a wind up merchant.
In claiming that years would be swallowed up by developing an IT system at a cost of £400 million, I am reminded of an Episode of Yes Minister (Big Brother) where the Department of Administrative Affairs are bringing in the National Database. Jim Hacker wants the ability of every citizen to inspect his/her file to be built in. Sir Humphrey claims that this will cause numerous technical problems. Hacker replies that they can use the same file interrogation program which is already in use by the US State Department and the Swedish Ministry of the Interior.
And that’s the point, why reinvent the wheel? This is just another ‘Scare ’em’ story.
Possibly why the Telegraph have disabled comments on the story.
@Nana Smith says Best comment so far on the guardian IDS yarn
Thank you for sharing that. I actually burst out laughing at my desk to the rah, rah, rah-ing in the Eton Mess part especially.
It is really all very comical and we can look back in an Independent Scotland and laugh even more at what the fools used to say 😀
At a quick guess, I’d say IDS and his ilk are concerned at possible benefits loss – their own when rump UK can no longer afford their costs.
@ Bugger the panda at 9.11am
It must have been my timing, glad to see both interviews now together:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27135448
This is great for the BBC bias output monitors.
Does Naughtie Jim have journalistic integrity, using the principles of truth, disclosure, and editorial independence?
Did Naughtie Jim use the same fair and balanced approach to both interviewees?
In my opinion Naughtie Jim gives Carmichael an easy ride and despite his best efforts he is slain by Nicola.
@ Heather
My tea went down the wrong way on reading it,my poor dog thought I was taking my last gasp. Thank goodness we can laugh at the dark forces!
@Wingman2020
My neighbour is an electrician who got made redundant. He despairs of getting another job and is sick of being a sparky anyway. So he intends to set himself up as a general handyman. So he will be an ‘entrepreneur’ by the government’s lights, which is clearly bollocks. For a start his income will be much less, so how is that a good thing?
@Grouse Beater 9.58
” I am more concerned about the Scots in Scotland demeaning their own people and nation” Absolutely. Comments from I.D.S. aka Colonel Blimp are met with derision and actually help the independence campaign. As you say our problem is the Union Jocks.
@ Muscleguy
It isn’t
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2014/03/03/new-data-on-self-employed-income-they-enjoy-50-6-of-median-earnings/
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2013/12/18/the-80000-new-self-employed-people-is-not-a-measure-of-entrepreneurial-britain-it-is-a-measure-of-desperation-uk/
Just more massaging of the unemployment figures, really
caz-m
The head of the Red Arrows used to live in Freuchie.
He drove a wee diesel car, 20 years ago and said that if we wanted a wee adrenalin he used his wee diesel car to drive to Lechars.
@Grouse Beater
I agree that the Scottish People berating us from the inside is a far more concerning and disturbing situation.
I was at a Business for Scotland event on Tuesday. One speaker was talking about Brand Scotland and provided a large list (not an exhaustive list) of the strong companies we have in Scotland. He talked about how sad it is that our achievements and capabilities are not shouted about around the world as they should be as the World doesn’t fully appreciate what we have to offer. I made the comment that worse still is the fact that the people of Scotland don’t fully appreciate what we have to offer. It truly makes me sad when people say ‘but we have nothing’ ‘where will the jobs come from?’ etc etc etc Worse still when you start telling them their eyes glaze over and they look at you like you have three heads.
£400 million is cheap as chips if it’s a scare tactic,thx
@Caz-m
“While we’re on the subject of RAF jets and Royal Navy ships, have you ever met a Scottish Jet fighter pilot or a Scottish Commander of a Royal Navy ship or submarine.”
Yes, but they were definitely British. Sounded Scottish, said British. Bit like Gordon Brown.
Labour cuts its ties with the Co-Op.
Oh dear, rats and sinking ships come to mind.
Think I’ve sussed out how the Brit Nats come up with all that inanity.
They check their own mailbag to find out which of their own policies scare folk the most then accuse the Yes campaign of having that same policy.
Simple. But are there enough simpletons to fall for it?
caz-m
Have you heard of Thomas Cochrane or Eric Brown?
Though it is true officers are expected to speak in a certain way, wherever they hail from.
@Peter Mcbeastie 10.22
Not only that Peter, the vast majority of officers in the Scottish regiments were English. The privates who got shot at were all Scots.
All quiet on the News 24 state broadcaster channel this morn, regards the wall to wall scarefest being endured by us too wee too poor too stupid Scots.
Does anyone outside Scotland have the full picture as to what we are being submitted to up here?
Seriously getting pissed off with scum like this.
(And I generally try not to post such statements,
but IDS is beyond a joke)
“Labour cuts its ties with the Co-Op.
Oh dear, rats and sinking ships come to mind.”
But will the Tories go back to folding towels in Sainsbury’s?
@Heather McLean;“does ANYONE seriously believe anything Ian Duncan Smith says?”
Of course there is – a guy known as, “IDS” does.
@ Robert Peffers
I don’t believe he does, either.
The link to the R4 oil story is here at 6.52, should ope at right place.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0418phc
But but I D Smith is a friend and neighbour,Isn’t he? Maybe he is just teasing us for a laugh, maybe Brown was teasing, and so too Osborne.Oh and then there is the teasing from the abundance of navy admirals. And we have our pal Cochrane from the Telegraph and his band of followers with their “jokes”.
Vote Yes to independence to ensure we have the last laugh.
@CameronB: “P.S. Didn’t his boss not say the indyref was a matter for the Scots.
Yeah! But he didn’t believe it himself. He has always pontificated on independence matters.
He is just a wee bit shy of debates with real political people. For example with First Ministers that he cannot bully. He is, after all a leading member of the, “Bullingdon Boys”.
A poll reported in the Herald showed 30% of people un the UK were less likely to buy goods from Scotland if we became Independent.
Truely bizarre in a country full of Japanese electronic goods and German cars, where almost all its car industry is Japanese,and German.
I can only imagine nespapers are only still publishing these for the novelty and comedy value.
Bugger (the Panda)
OK I might have exaggerated the figure of 100% of the Fighter pilots and Navy Commanders coming from the English Home Counties.
Then lets all agree that the revised figure is no less than 99% then.
That leaves a healthy 1% to come from outwith the English Home Counties.
This is were they fit in the token Scot.
We are not worthy oh mighty England. Thank you so very f**kin much.
And if we stay within the UK, vulnerable people could lose their lives.
Like the 10,000 who died within six months of losing their disability living allowances in 2010-2011.
And the thousands more who died since, which your department decided not to bother counting, because it’s a monstrous disgrace and a national disaster.
And while you stand there with your private armed security guards to protect you against protestors with disabilities from holding you to account, more will die.
You, creature, are why this referendum is happening. You, with your despicable twisting of Christian values to justify the wrongful death of tens of thousands. You, who lies and deceives and steals with impunity because you’re surrounded with people just as hateful as yourself.
And you don’t even realise that. You truly cannot understand that the people of Scotland don’t want to do things your way.
Hell mend you when the people of England & Wales wake up.
@Nan: “I’m new to this (the posting part) so hope to get it right”.
Welcome, Nan. You could not have got it more right. Hope we hear much more from you now the ice is broken.
8:43 am – I have 2 words for him… Bedroom Tax!
I have two words for him too, and the second one is “off”.
Sentence to the right of the picture
Ian Duncan Smith warns that vulnerable people will lose their benefits if, or if not, Scotland breaks away from the United Kingdom.
Sorted
And as for Scotland’s population ageing faster, it has got to be something to do with time going fast when you are enjoying yourself?
Ladies and Gents get used to the lies and disinformation, it will get worse in the coming months.
The phrase “Ye aint seen nuthin yet” springs to mind.
O/T
A wee reminder FMQs at 12 noon. I wonder what screaming rant wee Johann has been rehearsing for this week.
I have noticed her right hand is starting to shake a lot more when she is turning the pages of her Paul Sinclair written speech.
I wonder if she does a trial run the night before, with husband Archie acting as the First Minister.
@Heather
I agree that the Scottish People berating us from the inside
Based on past history I’ve never been worried by what the London boys would do to keep control – whatever they threaten will appear exactly that, a threat, and threats are always counter-productive. In many respects they repeat past the tactics now.
It’s the Union Jocks, the ill-informed, and the pig ignorant, mortified anybody should think well of their country to such an extent they’d want to govern it. They presume we are here to work to London’s instruction. We are, after all, part of London’s great history, are we not?
There is comfort and safety in that. And if you work hard enough and do as you are expected to do there might be reward at the end of service to fool us into thinking we are a fully paid up member of the British establishment.
On the wider argument, I see the proliferation of small states as an antidote to neo-liberal globalisation, an awareness our democratic rights and institutions are being eroded. Fighting to protct those structures, to strengthen our voices has to be a good thing.
Welcome Nan and like Square Haggis – I’m trying to keep calm.
I’m sitting here almost in tears of rage.
What a f***ing w***ker – I know some folk don’t like swearing on this site hence ****.
Seriously if we vote No we are stuffed forever.
I’m starting to hate the BBC and all the naysayers who are lying.
There is one person I know who is voting No – he is a lovely chap who feels very attached to the UK – that is fine but the others who lie and cheat – like Broon and Carmichael et al, I have no time for them at all.
cynicalHighlander
I had a discussion with a “foreign” friend about this. He is a bit of a detail merchant.
The professor’s logic seems to fail when England and Scotland revert to independent sovereign states upon the break up of the UK.
International law seems very clear on this. Prof Collier seems to be a lone voice. A real key negotiation issue would surely be about the 1999 maritime border change, not the principle of actual geographical mineral ownership.
Er, is the £400 million not based on the costs of the amount of people in the uk? Ergo, an indy scotland would be £40 million if we wanted to hand the contract and added expense to one of our mates who runs an IT firm and software company?
I cannot, for the life of me, work out how it would cost even £40 million to implement an IT system to work out pensions!!!!
What a load of shite.
Professor Collier more or less stated that you cannot have a rich REGION of a country seceding and taking away all it’s natural resources.
How can a distinguished(?) Oxbridge academic start an argument that falls flat on it’s face right at the start?
The unionist blind spot is certainly making a lot of smart people act incredibly dumb.
@ Murray McCallum
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140422/189312524/Scottish-Ministers-Will-Seek-Return-Of-Disputed-Waters
IDS, Broon, et al are like dodgy comedians who push the barriers of good taste to get a cheap laugh, and laugh we do!
Nana Smith
I particularly enjoyed “A senior legal adviser to the UK Government, Professor James Crawford of Cambridge University, earlier told an audience at Edinburgh University that the British Government’s position was “untenable”.”
If Mr. “Scotland was extinguished under international law” is saying this then we seem to be on fairly strong grounds for negotiations.
@Murray McCallum
I wonder if the BBC realise that by their actions that the have lost all creditability over any of its news coverage around the world.
Eric Blair must of got the idea of the ‘Ministry of Truth’ from his time working in the BBC.
@ Murray McCallum
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/7625-for-further-intrusion-into-your-private-life-vote-no
This paragraph got me very angry.
Fast forward to 1999 and you’ll find Tony Blair and Donald Dewar, Scotland’s inaugural First Minster and so-called ‘Father of the Nation’, using the powers of the new parliament to rezone 6000 square miles of Scottish sea-water into English territory. They didn’t even inform the Scottish people about this, let alone consult us. Two guesses what’s in those waters? That’s right. Oil.
O/T
Not only did we pay, through our license fee, for James Nuaghtie’s jaunt to America last week, but we also must be paying for his flights up and down from London for his two day stint he does on GMS at Pacific Quay.
He must be booked into the Penthouse suite of the Moat House Hotel that is directly across the River Clyde from his office at BBC Scotland.
He slipped up when he said he walked over the Bell’s footbridge this morning at 4am.
That footbridge across the river is a direct link between the Moat House and Pacific Quay.
So WE are paying top dollar for Naughtie to fly up here first class, stay in the best Hotels and slaughter his own country.
Is IDS (and the rest of the horrible crew) completely lacking in self-awareness and genuinely under the impression this will cause a useful improvement in the size of the No vote?
I suppose it’s possible, but I’m reading more and more speculation that it’s all a clever ploy to throw the referendum. The main difficulty with that is that it requires them to possess some intelligence and subtlety and I don’t think they do.
According to wikipedia,IDS was born in Edinburgh,maybe he’s a secret yes agent.In that case,keep up the good work,you’re daein’ a grand joab 🙂 .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Duncan_Smith
Its probably not big or clever to just post a message calling Iain Duncan Smith a cunt, but i shall anyway.
Iain Duncan Smith is a MASSIVE CUNT.
Caz-m, that hotel is now the Crowne Plaza and has been for some years. I stayed there myself over the Easter weekend, when it was host to the annual British science fiction convention.
I have to say it was extremely comfortable and the service was excellent. I think you’re right and that’s where he puts up for his jaunts into bandit country. I don’t know about penthouse though – does it have one?
IDS is not the sharpest sandwich pulling the train.
He even falsified his education qualifications.
http://tinyurl.com/mcaaoqq
Lying just comes easily to him and he must think we are as thick as he is.
@morag
Yes it does have a Penthouse suite, up inside the Big Crane.
Maybe we could weld it shut?
@ Alan MacD 11.38
That comment is rude, embarrassing and adds nothing to the integrity of this site or to the discussion.
IT systems. Would .gov.uk become .gov.ruk and does Scotland have a preassigned equivalent – heard while back we were looking at .scot?
Love the page folks, first post.This site may have been already mentioned, but if not it’s worth a lookie.www.greenbenchesuk.com/2014/01/the-cost-of-ids-100-ways-iain-duncan.html
gov.fuk
@liz 11.15am
I share your frustration and anger. People are entitled to their opinions and if they want vote a certain way,that’s fine. What is fundamentally wrong, and morally bankrupt is for publicly funded organisations to deliberately tell lies, demonstrate bias and intentionally mislead the public. They may regard themselves as unaccountable, but they are accountable for their actions. The day of judgement is beckoning.
Some so called journalists are failing their profession by not doing the basics of checking facts or challenging what is given to them.They are merely a bunch of conduits.
Be in no doubt, the anti-Yes campaign will get much more sordid and everything will be seen as a legitimate target. Why, because the UK cannot afford to function financially without the revenues from Scotland. Everything will be done to try and stop the Yes campaign from succeeding.
Ref the Bannockburn event,was there nothing the Scottish Government could have done to stop this rogue “Stirling Council”, pulling off a political stunt aided by Westminster. Which is aimed at belittling Scottish heritage, it is shameful they could do this on such a big occasion.
If not,why not, they are the government of Scotland, not just a council.Time to bite back.
@ Mosstrooper 11:43 am
Maybe so, but I thought the use of upper case to shout his point indicated a vast frustration and a need for cathartic expression.
Besides which, I agreed with him.
Ref the Bannockburn event,was there nothing the Scottish Government could have done to stop this rogue “Stirling Council”, pulling off a political stunt aided by Westminster. Which is aimed at belittling Scottish heritage, it is shameful they could do this on such a big occasion.
Les, I think it is better for the SG take a back seat and let this ridiculous ploy backfire on BT, which it will. Can you imagine the unionist headlines if their Armed Forces day plans were interfered with in any way?
Having had a result on the Nationalist Lottery this week (I missed out on the Grand Nationalist), I think I’ll jump on Nationalist Rail and visit the nationalist capital to see The Nationalist Gallery, a few Nationalist Trust gems, and a play at the Nationalist Theatre.
Welcome Nana Smith, pity is you cannot come to Scotland and mark the box with a YES, we need every last one of those.
The pity is the big complex which has been put on so many shoulders that is the problem for so many. I think more for the very elderly, do not think that we who are now in our sixties were quite as won over by the British Establishment and those like my parents and parents in law who fought in the second world war.
I would certainly say to anyone willing to listen that you are more likely to be cared for in an Independent Scotland, let us hope we can get rid of IDS/GB form of Welfare which is labour intensive for those who are in work and a joke for those who are not. Gordon Brown tied the whole thing up in red tape whilst taking money off people who should not have been paying tax, so he could look like he was helping by paying it back, well a bit of it anyway.
@ Helena Brown
I am already in Scotland,voting YES. As are all my family members.
One thing to bear in mind here. Scotland is not seceding from the UK. It’s ending it’s “voluntary” treaty with England and it’s conquests. Nor am I particularly happy with the reasoning which hints at regions of African not being allowed to secede so Scotland shouldn’t be allowed to do so. Also the mention of international law ignores the simple fact that it all depends on treaties which we need not enter in to. Lastly he seems completely blind to the fact that the oil is extracted by companies licensed to do so by the state, which in this case would be Scotland. Seems a heavy portion of colonialism in the whole idea.
RGU’s bailed out of the CBI. FINALLY.
IDS claimed on expenses for his pants.
He also reduced his aide to tears after she revealed this fact to the Select Committee on Standards and Privileges.
He is the absolute scum of the earth.
IDS claimed on expenses for his pants.
Quite right: it is his job to set them on fire
Is this perhaps their Dodgy Dossier on Social Security? https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/305379/long-term-projections-social-security-spending-in-UK-including-scotland.pdf
On an unrelated note, I see our bastion of impartiality (no sniggering at the back!), the BBC, remains a proud member of the CBI…
this might be useful for comparison. http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/explaining-scotlands-social-security-spending/
If anyone has the time, perhaps we should start a petition about the bbc membership of cbi. I’d do it but at work right now…
How about raising awareness of the (apparent) fact that it’s now no longer a criminal offence to refuse to pay the licence fee? Read something about it somewhere or other.
@galamcennalath says:“What do others take it mean when BT and their media bitches say Scottish National-IST Party?”
I’ve been flogging THAT particular horse for decades. The, “Establishment”, has been doing this for hundreds of years and the whole British education system has taught the lies to succeeding generations of children. Now they really do not know they are brainwashed. Listen to the present Prime Minioster of, “The United Kingdom” and you will hear it all the time. He thinks he is the PM of, “Britain”, and the parliament he heads is, “The British Parliament”, the armed forces he sends to die in some foreign country are, “The British”, Army, Navy and Air Force. He calls the, “United Kingdom”, “The Country”, and the people of the, “United Kingdom”, “British Citizens”. Get the picture now, galamcennalath?
IDS the man who has made a living living off tax payers monies you couldent make it up, just another ("Tractor" - Ed) that needs hanged.
For INFO
Presented to Parliament
by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions
by Command of Her Majesty
April 2014
Cm 8849
Scotland analysis: Work and pensions https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/304634/scotland-analysis-work-and-pensions-print.pdf
@chalks
The cost of a bespoke tax system would depend on how complex it is, but I think it could be done for quite a bit less than even 40 million 🙂
Literally speechless! Our reply:
http://disabilitynewsservice.com/2013/12/scottish-independence-a-lifeboat-for-disabled-people-drowning-in-sea-of-cuts/
@Alan MacD; That statement degrades c**ts!
On the issue of the flypast over Bannockburn.
Perhaps the attendees could respond with a mass mooning at Biggles as he passes over! ????????
Apologies for the excessive question marks, Stu. Your software clearly doesn’t accept Emoji!
@Training Day says: “I can’t be the only one who longs for the 19th September when we can wave goodbye to this crowd of hypocrites and troughers”.
Just how many of them will be welcomed with open arms in, “The Kingdom of England”, after independence and their usefulness to the perceived, “rUnited Kingdom”, is of no further use?
I love that headline, anyone who is vulnerable or is in regular contact with a vulnerable person must surely be more likely to vote YES.
Keep it up BetterTogether.
Who says we cannae set up oor ain iScotland computer systems:
http://www.publictechnology.net/news/scottish-big-data-centre-announced/38152
fairiefromtheearth
Your posts are consistently in very bad taste.
Please do not use such terminology again, or I will be forced to conclude that you, like Peter and Horse Head, are a troll.
This is like Dracula warning us our blood bank will run low without him.