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The hearth of Pyrrhus

Posted on May 14, 2016 by


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  1. 14 05 16 08:56

    The hearth of Pyrrhus | speymouth

464 to “The hearth of Pyrrhus”

  1. Iain says:

    Great, got me laughing.

  2. theMadMurph says:

    Ha ha Chris. That’s the first of Ruthie’s photo shots which isn’t fantasy!

  3. mumsyhugs says:

    Aye Ruthie baby – be careful what you wish for! Haha 🙂

  4. Al-Stuart says:

    Chris, Thank you for elegantly putting this into perspective. Also love the title.

    Last night I sinned. Watched that wretched BBC Question Time as it was from Aberdeen.

    Stu., either you or I will need to sit through the Dundee and Aberdeen BBC QT and count how many minutes were spent with Unionist/Tory/LibLab questions and how many on National/SNP questions.

    The reason? Your letters to the BBC regarding BBC QT stacking their audiences with Yoons are excellent, but methinks gathering proof that the BBC load their programmes and questions with BIAS stooges can be firmed up with that forensic analysis you are well reputed for.

    Thereby triggering a formal Inquiry into BBC balance and neutrality as per their Charter requirements.

    This may seem an arcane point, but until Scotland gets NEUTRAL and fair media coverage – that magic 7% of swing voters we need to go from NO to YES – in order to achieve 60% and an Independence win, will NEVER happen.

    With regards to the fine cartoon from Chris, that BBCQT from Aberdeen had the idiotic muppet Mundell droning on how the Tories won and the SNP lost. He kept spouting numbers that I couldn’t find.

    The only FACTUAL detail there is are the actual votes for the SP16 election:-

    SNP Constituency: 1,059,897
    Conservative Constituency: 501,844
    Labour Constituency: 514,261

    SNP Regional: 953,587
    Conservative Regional: 524,222
    Labour Regional: 435,919

    SNP MSPs
    Conservative MSPs
    Labour MSPs

    SNP: 63
    Conservative: 31
    Labour: 24

    Even by the twisted Mundell fantasy world, how on earth can these figures be bent to show a Conservative WIN and and SNP LOSE position???

  5. Dorothy Devine says:

    Second laugh of the morning – thank you Chris!

  6. Marie Clark says:

    Well that fairly cheers a body up in the morning. Made me laugh.

    Well done Chris, great stuff.

  7. yerkitbreeks says:

    Could be the other way round – over five years we’re going to see if Ms Davidson & Co are really pale blue or exposed as another obedient branch office

  8. Baldeagle58 says:

    He he…..
    Spot on as usual Chris.
    Thanks for putting a smile on my face so early on a Saturday morning! 🙂

  9. Capella says:

    Point made! Poor Ruth didn’t get any of her candidates voted in as Presiding Officer or Deputies. A sign of things to come I hope.

  10. jimnarlene says:

    You didn’t just hit the nail head, you’ve rammed it home.

  11. Simon says:


    I believe fluffy was comparing the numbers from GE15 and SP16

    GE15 1,454,436
    SP16 1,059,897

    Which as you can clearly see means that the SNP are dead in the water

    Tory GE15 434,097
    Tory SP16 501,844

    The second set show an glorious resurgance, a rebirth, the phoenix rising.

    Now stand to attention and sing… (and not in Urdu thnx).

  12. ScottieDog says:

    Article about hamza’ swearing in in Urdu in Washington post..

    Some of the comments are toxic.

  13. galamcennalath says:

    Excellent cartoon to start Saturday off.

    I hope Davidson gets a rough time in this new parliament. She should be held to account at every available opportunity for WM/Tories’ policies.

    She might have pretended during the election campaign to not actually be a Tory, however now she must never be allowed to forget that she represents Cameron here in his colonial outpost. She should be badgered to either openly support WM’s actions, or embarrassed into opposing them.

  14. John Thomson says:

    Those slippers are famous

  15. Lollysmum says:

    A real & hearty laugh out loud moment gets the weekend off to a very good start-thank you Chris 🙂

    Amazing that such a simple toon can convey so much 😉

  16. katherine hamilton says:

    Ha Ha! I’d love to live inside your head!

  17. Capella says:

    Seems that “The Flying Scotsman” can’t make the journey through the Borders because Network Rail hasn’t been able to check the rails from York to Edinburgh. OK from London to York though. Only discovered this at the last minute too.

  18. X_Sticks says:

    Haha. Wee Roofie will be starting to feel the heat very soon there.

    I’m looking forward to FMQs. At least Nicola will have something to get her teeth into now.

    Thanks Chris, you can do some good work when you’re no slacking 😉

  19. Croompenstein says:

    Ruth is a media trained PR person a total vacuous politician who would sell the Scottish people short if she had any power as was seen during the fiscal framework negotiations when the imperialists tried to rip us off for 7 billion.

    Nice toon Chris.

  20. Truth says:

    Only a genius can consistently generate clever, witty cartoons like this.

    We’re lucky to have him.

    Well done Chris.

  21. Grouse Beater says:

    Aye, tank Ruthie tanked. Neat cartoon, Chis.

    This still relevant:

  22. cearc says:

    In a nutshell, brilliant.

  23. Capella says:

    The Flying Scotsman flying from London to York in February.

    Unfortunately, Network Rail haven’t been able to check the route to Edinburgh in the intervening 2 months in spite of this project being planned for 10 years.

    “One of the world’s most famous locomotives has completed its inaugural run after a decade-long, £4.2m refit.
    The Flying Scotsman made the journey from London King’s Cross to York, where it will go on display at the National Railway Museum (NRM).”

    Does anyone in the South of Scotland (Tory region) have a ruler? Could they go out and measure the rails and platforms. Send info to Network Rail. Thanks.

  24. Fred says:

    Buffalo straddler, straddled! 🙂

  25. Robert Peffers says:

    @Al-Stuart says: 14 May, 2016 at 7:23 am:

    ” … Even by the twisted Mundell fantasy world, how on earth can these figures be bent to show a Conservative WIN and and SNP LOSE position???”

    Oh! Dear! Al-Stuart, You have obviously forgotten that, as far as the malodorous Mundell, or as we say in Scotland – “Minging), Mundell”, is concerned, the term, “Tory”, is synonymous with both of the terms, “Unionist”, and, “Establishment”.

    Thus in his small mind the winners in the Scottish Parliamentary election are calculated by the simple formula, Lab+LibDem+Tory=Conservative. Or perhaps Red Tory+yellow Tory+Blue Tory=Establishment/Unionist.

    Anyway it was very nice to awake on this bright sunny Saturday morn to an even brighter Chris Cairns Cartoon masterpiece, (and a bacon sanny).

  26. HandandShrimp says:

    Ed Miliband needs to have a chat with Mundell. I am sure by Mundell’s logic Ed must have won.

  27. Capella says:

    Oops. Brazil’s new “President” turns out to be CIA spy according to Wikileaks. Not in BBC news of course.

  28. Ken500 says:

    People don’t realise because of a crazy electoral system and ignorance. When losers win. How close a majority of rejects came to be in illegal control of Holyrood. A Holyrood led by Davidson as FM back up by duplicitous Labour. As a result of the Green vote and total misinformation by the despicable Press and a few rogue academics acting unprofessionally. They are supposed to act in a truthful and professional impartial manner and respect Purdah. They have a professional code which is being broken consistently. 2nd rate professionals acting without principle and misusing £Millions/Billion of public money being improperly spent.

    Scotland had a close escape which is still unresolved business. There would have been protested in the street. Unelected lying charlatan Davidson in Holyrood, the cuckoo in the nest. Plus unelected liar Cameron whose policies the majority in Scotland have totally rejected. Both of whom do not care. An absolute, abusive nightmare. Scotland has just has a close escape because of the lying (non) Greens who a majority have totally rejected. A close escape from misery and duplicity.

  29. Ghillie says:

    Love those shoes = )

  30. Ken500 says:

    No Tory Phoenix rising. GE no 16/17 voters. Missing from the numbers.
    Holyrood Elections 16/17 voters.

    Plus 30% of Indy Ref voters missing. Turnout 85% Turn out GE and Holyrood (approx 50/60%) They are the one’s who decide the outcome. Split evenly? Non politically aware. Do not join a political Party. Have absolutely no interest in politics.

    The numbers are rising it only needs an (approx) 2/3% swing with younger voters coming on board. Totally increasing enthusiastic energised supporters who are more determined.

    With a 3/4 year Ref residential qualification. Totally legit to get rid of time and money wasters.

    YES is in the bag. A majority and rising. More older voters go off the Register and young voters come on board. For a bright, prosperous future. It is within grasp. After being denied Democracy for over 100 years and more generations.

  31. Almannysbunnet says:

    This cartoon is so good it doesn’t even need words. Minimalist genius.

    What’s that you’re saying Ruthie? I think it’s the tunk’s feet that will be roasted first.

  32. Ruby says:

    Ha! Ha! Ha!

    Brilliant! The best yet.

  33. Bob Mack says:

    Brilliantly incisive cartoon,well up to your usual standard Chris.

    I think Mundell was trying to put a gloss ,on what for the unionists was a very bad result. What have they left but to draw people on board their UK flag campaign. The SNP still maintained the majority of the Constituency vote.That is important . Ruthie,courtesy of the system came second,but only because of the system.She and her party actually failed miserably at constituency level,as did all the others. SNP were first pick in most. The future is bright.

  34. Robert Peffers says:

    My second laugh this fine morning was the BBC news item with the Headline:- “DOZENS OF QUESTIONS LODGED AT HOLYROOD”.
    It then goes on :-

    “Dozens of questions about the Scottish Governments memorandum of understanding with Chinese firms were lodged during the first session at Holyrood. … “

    Next it states there were a total of 51 questions lodged by MSPs but significantly it doesn’t say that all those 51 questions were about the Chinese Memorandum.

    It then specifies – 28 of the total were on the Chinese memorandum from Willie Rennie.

    Now I read that as there being a total of 51 questions asked and 28 0f them, (that’s dozens), were by Willie Rennie about the Chinese memorandum.

    However a casual reader could be forgiven for thinking all 51 questions were about the Chinese Memorandum.

    I wonder if this is deliberate BBC Establishment propaganda effort or just an indication of the very poor standard of BBC’s attempts at journalism.

    The only other explanation is that the Unionist Establishment parties are already colluding together against the SNP Scottish Government – unlikely as that would mean no Green or SNP Members have asked any questions.

  35. Mark Russell says:

    @ Al-Stuart

    I thought Mundell’s twisted fantasy world was only restricted to late night sessions with the bête noire of the Tory backbenchers – Alberto Costo? They are a fine couple..

  36. Brian McHugh says:

    No hesitation in placing this as Mr Cairns best ever toon. 🙂

  37. Almannysbunnet says:

    First day of parliament and the swearing in over. Fifty one questions and motions were lodged, 28 of them from Penny Rennie on the China letter of memorandum. NE Fife you have a lot to answer for!

  38. carjamtic says:

    Quality Chris 🙂

    Win Win ;-/

  39. Ken500 says:

    Unelected Unionist at it immediately. Irresponsibly canvassing against the SNP, for a bit of cheap publicity. Wasting time and public money because they have nothing better to do. They are despicable,

    Unelected Rennie is a totally and utterly ignorant fool. A Clown. They are not fuuny in any way shape or form. Just ignorant show offs. People deserve to have better representation. Vulnerable innocent people need to be better represented. LIBDem corruptible, greedy liars. Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable. They have cost the Scootish economy £Billions that could have been better spent. It is not funny. They are a joke. LibDems get back in your box. Oblivion await.

  40. Dorothy Devine says:

    My fourth laugh of the day has to be the online Herald about Scottish money laundering with a photo which looks like an ex council house in Knightswood and a nice but ordinary car on the drive / garden – nae harm to Knightswood intended , it has always been a beautiful place with well kept gardens and wide streets , but the centre of some oligarchs money laundering? nah!

    Comments closed but I see 10 were made which no-one is being allowed to see.

  41. Ken500 says:

    Flying Scotsman. More effective rail travel mean people do not have to take so many flights. The (non) Greens might not approve of the emissions.

  42. Auld Rock says:

    Hi Yerkitbreeks, no need to wait five years we already know they are all Branch Offices!

    Auld Rock

  43. Dr Jim says:

    That’s a funny one, always liked those tartan shoes, shows how good a wee trademark they are when that’s all you have to show to create an image of the FM,

    She’s a smart cookie

  44. G4jeepers says:

    Re fleein’ Scotsman

    Fae the herald “Passengers booked to travel on Sunday face disappointment after an eleventh hour discovery by Network Rail that the Flying Scotsman was too wide too fit through the the station at Dalmeny, immediately before the Forth Bridge.”


    Great cartoon but I wouldn’t have a footstool in the hoose even if it looked like that.

  45. heedtracker says:

    Chocolate fire guard. BBC sez vote Ruth MacThatcher, she’s a working class tory. Uni, BBC Scotland reject, TA, dole, comes MSP 4th Glasgow May 2011, Scottish toryboy leader November, vile separatist thrashing toryboy triumph’s 2016, 2021… arise Lady Ruth of Mayfair, 2022.

  46. thomas says:

    Did anyone just see the news where the bbc , specifically catriona renton talking about the release of mellisa reid , the drug mule back to SCOTLAND , not Britain ( as its negative news).

    In other positive news , andy murray is not from scotland , he is from Britain.

    Same shit different day.

  47. G4jeepers says:

    Oh aye, and the link

  48. Les Wilson says:

    Absolutely great laugh at today’s cartoon. But will be nearer the truth, I think in the cold light of Holyrood she will find out that she has opened the door to direct humiliation for her and her disgraceful party. Toxic in Scotland they are, popularity will soon be put to rest. The enemy is in sight, with no where to hide.

    Ref QT, Mundell, when I was a kid there was an advert on tv repeatedly about drinking a pint of milk a day, that was the theme.D rink a pint of milk a day, drink a pint of milk a day, repeated time and time again. Subliminal instruction, so much so that I remember it to this day.

    This is Mundell’s tactic, consistently bringing up Indy2, at every given opportunity. Followed by ” The Scottish people do not want another referendum.” This again a subliminal message repeated and repeated by Mundell and other Yoons, in order to establish a memory recognition in the brain of Scots that we do not want a second ref.

    Their psychological experts in propaganda have given their instruction, to make it all stick and therefore it will be.
    Much like the ” drink a pint of milk a day” which works in exactly the same way.There is no end to what they will do to keep their cash cow hostage.

  49. Ken500 says:

    And the unelected Unionists/Greens are off. Trying to muck up every SNP majority supported policy.

    Council tax – those on lower incomes who can’t afford it – get a rebate or do not pay it. The sick, the elderly and the students. Those on lower incomes. The wealthier can easily afford a moderate increase. The Council tax is no big deal for those on average incomes. Raises 15% Approx £20 a week for those who can afford it, to support local services. Those who can’t afford it get a rebate or do not pay it.

    The majority complain when the non mandated Unionist/Green NO Councils waste £Million/Billion of taxpayers money on non supported grotesque projects and claim they have no money for
    essential services. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

    Council May 2017. Next campaign. Starts now.

    Unelected Willy/Unionists. No one give a damn if the wealthier have to pay a moderate increase. The majority support it. Stop making a total unelected Unionist/Green NO Party – fool of yerselves, wasting public disrupting majority supported Parliamentary business. Everyone us watching. That is
    not for which they voted.

  50. Effijy says:

    Andy Murray has split with his tennis coach Amelie Mauresmo.

    He has approached Wee Ruthie about being her replacement.

    She knows nothing about tennis, but she will teach him how to strut about as though he won something!!! lol

  51. heedtracker says:

    You see vile separatist types, Westminster takes all your oil and then gives you all their nuclear waste, and you’re a proud UKOK nuke weapons storage dump. Its called punching above your weight. So Vote Ruth, a working class Scottish tory, much better than an upper class English tory.

  52. Ken500 says:

    The tax haven nonsense in Scotland. HMRC are totally Westminster controlled. HMRC not fit for purpose.Westminster members tax evade and illegally do not enforce the UK tax Laws in The UK or abroad.

    Westminster Unionists use UK taxpayers money to support 1/3 of tax havens in the world. They could just be closed down. Thatcher introduced tax havens. Wasting £Billions of public money. Deregulated world Banking Laws and capital reserves 25%. Worldwide. It caused the Banking crash, affecting the vulnerable the most.

  53. thomas says:

    @ Effijy

    Thats no nice talking about our new first minister the ruthsfuhrer like that.

  54. Dan Huil says:

    # ProudButs roasting on an open fire… #

  55. Robert Peffers says:

    @Almannysbunnet says: 14 May, 2016 at 10:18 am:

    “First day of parliament and the swearing in over. Fifty one questions and motions were lodged, 28 of them from Penny Rennie on the China letter of memorandum. NE Fife you have a lot to answer for!”

    Anyone know the average cost to the Scottish taxpayer of a question asked in the Holyrood Parliament?

    I would never want to prevent legitimate questions being asked, no matter what political shade of party was in power at Holyrood, but to ask 28 separate questions when I’m certain, that with a little thought, one could be ample to get true answers from whatever FM was answering the questions.

    This is proof that the LibDems have only a desire to disrupt the present party in power and have no regard to the costs to the hard pressed taxpayer.

    I’m beginning to think it might be a good plan to let the Northern Isles have what they desire and remain an enclave of the UK in an independent Scotland. The same goes for the Thin Blue Line across the borders that obviously are in a majority who want to remain part of England yet retain all the exclusive benefits bestowed upon them by the Scottish people.

  56. msean says:

    Very funny 🙂

  57. Macart says:

    Summed up brilliantly.

    Nice one Chris.

  58. yesindyref2 says:

    Great cartoon.

    @Les Wilson
    Yes, but the counter-propoganda subliminal message now the Tories are the main opposition party at Holyrood is just as easy.

    “The Tories don’t want us to have a Second Independence Referendum”.

    The implication being if you’re not Tory, then you do want one. Or if you don’t want one, then you’re Tory!

    “The Tories don’t want us to have a Second Independence Referendum”.

  59. Ken500 says:

    There is a desperate need to distribute as many WBB in Orkney and Shetland and the Borders as possible. They do not have good internet link. They are out of the loop. They will be furious when they know the truth. Their will be a massive backlash, to them voting unelected Unionist.

    Oil companies are bypassing Sullum Voe Terminal. Losing fees./revenues. To save money. That should be a wake up call for the unelected Unionist Islanders. UK gov policy and control of the Oil sector in Scotland. Criminally disasterous. Revenues go to UK Treasury to be squandered and wasted on bad, expensive projects with no business case, down south. Denying Scotland/UK revenues.

  60. Ken500 says:

    The Tories are the main unelected rejected Party in Holyrood because of a crazy undemocratic electoral system.

  61. G4jeepers says:

    Typical Lib Dems, 28 questions asked, 28 leaflets through the door, 28 placards around a single roundabout etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

  62. Ruby says:

    I haven’t a clue what Willie Rennie’s gripe is with the Chinese! I can’t even be bother taking the time to find out if he has a point. Is it Chinese investing in Scotland bad Chinese investing in England excellent?

    Secret Chinese takeover of Hinkley

  63. Ken500 says:

    Voters should e-mail, unelected members their complaints about their unrepresentative, ignorant behaviour. Take it right to the horses mouth. Right to the troughing, greedy, lying pigs.

    BBC – ‘Scottish women released’.

  64. yesindyref2 at 11.53

    Very good point.
    In their idiocy and their complete lack of understanding of Scotland they have moved onto our chosen battleground. It is now Scotland v the Tories

  65. yesindyref2 says:

    One of the first things the new Presiding Office should tackle is excessive questions from a fifth placed minority party. It wouldn’t want a totally proportionate quota, but the LibDems as the smallest party in Holyrood, I’ll say that again, LibDems are the smallest minority party in Holyrood, whouldn’t be allowed to take over the whole proceedings.

    If Ruth Davidson is the footstool, I nominate Willie Rennie for the marshmallow toaster. He can hold his marshmallows to the fire.

  66. Robdert Peffers says:

    @G4jeepers says: 14 May, 2016 at 11:12 am:

    ” … an eleventh hour discovery by Network Rail that the Flying Scotsman was too wide too fit through the the station at Dalmeny, immediately before the Forth Bridge.””

    That’s complete and utter claptrap. I lived in Edinburgh and travelled each day to Rosyth Dockyard to my work. There were two special trains each day, one for Dockyard workers and one for Navy people, These mostly were pulled by little Tan K engines.

    However, as the diesel engines were being introduced, they started to put some very famous steam locos on the Dockyard runs and on one occasion the Flying Scotsman loco pulled the Dockyard specials, which obviously stopped at Dalmeny Station en route to the Dockyard. BTW: there is much confusion as it was first the train itself that was known as, “The Flying Scotsman”, but eventually a series of special Gresley Pacific adapted locos also got the name.

    Here’s a cut & paste from Wiki :-

    “In the late 1950s, British Railways (BR) was committed to dieselisation, and began devising a replacement for the Gresley Pacifics on the East Coast Main Line. The result in 1962 was the Class 55 ‘Deltic’, and the Deltic-hauled Flying Scotsman became a centrepiece of BR advertising, as the steam-hauled one had been for the LNER.”

  67. Excellent piece on the swearing of the oath by WGD uin today’s National
    Starts in fine form

    “according to the Unionist Press, Look At Me I’m Riding a Buffalo Whoo Hoo Ruth Davidson Party won by coming in a very distant second”

  68. Ken500 says:

    Rennie is complaining that companies like Alexander, Falkirk are exporting £2Billion electrified buses to China. Reprociprial agreements.

    Rennie doesn’t like trade deals with China, the biggest market in the world. Nearly 2Billion people. Deals in whisky, salmon, food stuff, music fashion, technology, tourism, education.

    Rennie doesn’t like Scotland to benefit from world trade.

    Willy a ignorant pig that needs a poke. An unelected embarrassment to his constituency.

    China – ‘Scotland the land of invention and discovery’ Britain a land without influence and Empire’

    The British State insults the Chinese but wants their money/investment. They have no shame.

  69. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill
    It certainly is Dave. Since the result of the election and having got over the disappointment of not having an overall majority to make gettting Indy Ref 2 easier, I’ve been running around a question in my head. If we could go back and have our choice of two options, which one would we choose?

    1). Overall SNP majority but Labour with 28 MSPs and Tories with 15


    2). Minority SNP but overall pro-Indy, with Toties at 31 MSPs being the main opposition and Labour all but crushed with 24.

    It think for me it’s option 2, hard to swallow as that is.

  70. handclapping says:

    Her side will get roasted long before Nic’s feet are toastie! Another beaut that makes you think; well done Chris.

  71. Almannysbunnet says:

    @Ruby says:11:58 am
    I haven’t a clue what Willie Rennie’s gripe is with the Chinese!

    Willie doesn’t have a clue what his gripe is either but he’ll fish around, in vein, hoping to find something to beat up the SNP with. Actually Willie doesn’t have a clue full stop but as the leader of the smallest party in town the media will give him 28 times the exposure he deserves.

  72. HandandShrimp says:

    Has Rennie really written 28 letters about the MOU with Sinoforte?

    That is just off the wall.

    Did he use a crayon by any chance?

  73. G4jeepers says:

    @Robdert Peffers,

    Don’t shoot the messenger, I’m just passing on the “excuse” given by the Herald.
    You could always drop your post btl over @ there, I’d do it but don’t post there no mo, no point frankly.

  74. Arthetty says:


    N.Sturgeon will bring ruthie down a peg or ten!

  75. G4jeepers says:


    “Did he use 28 different coloured crayons by any chance?”

    Fixed that for you ;-p

  76. Capella says:

    @ Ken500 11.17
    “The majority complain when the non mandated Unionist/Green NO Councils waste £Million/Billion of taxpayers money on non supported grotesque projects and claim they have no money for
    essential services.”

    Can you tell me which Councils are Unionist/Green. I’ve searched the COSLA site but don’t see any. COSLA will have to update the Clackmannan listing as I read that the SNP have had to resign the administration because of combined Unionist opposition but no indication if the Greens were involved.

    Two Greens, Martin Ford and Paul Johnston, assisted the SNP in taking over the administration of Aberdeenshire Council which was previously held by a coalition of Unionist parties and Independents. BBC report from May 2015 coyly omits to say the SNP were the other partner in the new administration.

  77. yesindyref2 says:

    @G4jeepers ““Did he use 28 different coloured crayons by any chance?”

    Are we talking about K999n H001e and his graphs now?

  78. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ruby says:11:58 am:

    “I haven’t a clue what Willie Rennie’s gripe is with the Chinese!”

    Local Kelty gossip has it that Willie once got a Chow Mein, “Cairie Oot”, that was, “a bit off”, from a Kelty Chinese takeaway.

    Rumour has it that he has never forgiven the entire Chinese nation for it ever since.

    Seems one of his Holyrood questions is about the Chinese Trade Memorandum and the other 27 are all about Chinese Cairyoots.


  79. Ruby says:

    I haven’t a clue either what the ‘Ruth Davidson We Are Not Tories’ party’s gripe is with the ‘Named Person Act’ or why they want more college places.

    I think they just make up gripes & grievances to gain attention just like the boy who cried wolf.

    They will only be able to do this so often until nobody pays them any attention and I suspect that may have already happened.

    Ever wonder about those people who spend £2 apiece on those little bottles of Evian water? Try spelling Evian backward.

    I though I would try to start a trend of ending each post with a quote/joke etc.

  80. Capella says:

    Found an ITV report on Clackmannanshire Council. The coup was carried out by a Labour and one Tory coalition. No Greens mentioned BTW.

    However, the Unionists are not best pleased. One of their proposals, which they passed before the SNP resigned, was that the resource and audit committee should be chaired by the opposition – which is now the …SNP!

    “The changes to standing orders included ensuring the convenership of resources and audit committee is given to the opposition and allowing the council to decide who takes committee positions when vacancies arise.”

  81. handclapping says:

    I think that’s a grand idea

    Willie Rennie

  82. Macart says:

    Willie Rennie wrote 28 separate….?

    Wonder where he got the other two?

  83. DerekM says:

    Ouch dont make me laugh Chris i am a bit delicate this afternoon due to mass celebration at finally managing to beat the Hibs,took us all season but we did it,damn they are a tough team to beat,keep the faith Hibs the championship is a tough league to get out off we should know,and you have a cracking team best one we have played all season 🙂

    Ruthie we are coming to get you and this time we will not be holding back,what didnt you know we put you in the opposition benches and i am not talking about the SNP,welcome to our hot seat Ruth where you will face your worst nightmare scrutiny.

  84. Capella says:

    Looking at Aberdeen City, a target of much of Ken’s ire about Greens wasting millions of taxpayer’s pounds, I find that none of the Councillors are Green.

    But who are the Independent Alliance Group? Could they be Green?
    No, they are Conservatives who split from the already miniscule Conservative group.

    The mystery continues.

  85. Luigi says:

    Ruth the mooth.

    All mooth and no action (apart from the odd bit of tank straddling and occasional buffalo riding). 🙂

    With the human shield of useful Labour idiots out of the way, it’s now between the SNP and the tories. Perfect. 🙂

  86. Ken500 says:

    The Green Storr and Forbes were actually masquerading in the LibDem to get power and carry out their (non) Green policies. How principled is that? They got into positions of power and tried to disrupted the local economy. Stopped essential roads, houses, schools being build airport expansion. – damaging the local growing economy (only growing one in Scotland then) Ignorant voters were no aware of what was going on and who was behind it. i.e. They were getting even more frustrated with the local authorities providing the essential (norm) services. Traffic chaos, accidents. Vehicle spewing out fumes in stand still everywhere. The most dangerous roundabout in the UK and the lack of relevant facilities in Europe. No pedestrianised city centre and no bypass road. A small ask.

    Everyone moaned about what was going on but didn’t totally realised who was behind it. The local authority members responsible are disliked with contempt even by the majority and even of the unelected Unionist/Green. The Trump carrying on finally outed those behind it. Along with the rest of the Unionist/Green and NO Party. They got bummed out of the LibDems caused £Million Public Inquiry. Caused £Million Campaign against the road for years on court public appeals etc. Then complained about Education funding having to be cut £Millions. Launched despicable campaign against anyone who disagreed with their carry on. Even put police to people’s door to get them arrested and try to put the most in cells and criminalise them with complete lies.Entirely innocent people.

    They are now bummed out of the (non) Green Party now. They wanted to be on their list. Unthinkable the trouble and damage they could have caused. They were bummed off for telling lies and campaigning against other candidates. The six unelected they have now are bad enough. (non) Green liars.

  87. G4jeepers says:

    Capella, the Greens you’re looking for were Aberdeenshire councillors.

  88. DerekM says:

    Willie who ?

    Is he one of those endangered species maybe we should call in the WWF to take him into a breading program in Edinburagh zoo lol

  89. DerekM says:

    And no it wasnt a typo i was thinking about letting the weans throw stale buns at him lol

  90. Joemcg says:

    Has anyone received their batch of wee black books yet? Not received mine was just wondering if there is a delay.

  91. G4jeepers says:


    Debra Storr was against the Trump golf course because of the threat to the SSSI site and possibly also because she lives there.

    Martin Ford was put in an awkward position with deciding vote, which he cast against because there were a lot of unanswered questions left over from the previous planning meeting.

    The meeting at Balmedie primary school was open to the public and was packed out the door. The feeling was to go back to the drawing board. After that meeting George Sorial incredibly appeared on TV saying he thought the meeting was very positive and that the planning would pass.

    If anything, the P&J were to blame for pushing Trump as he seemed to have them firmly in his pocket, still does.

    The main objection from the greens was in regard to the SSSI, which would have to be dug up to facilitate the second course, which hasn’t been built yet.

    On reflection I think the Greens plated it cautiously and according to the policies they adhere to.

  92. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @DerekM –

    ‘Please Do Not Feed The Liberal Democrats’


  93. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Wullie R could lead the Penguin Parade, but even they won’t follow such a loser.

  94. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Some posts on here regarding the cancellation of the Flying Scotsman journeys.
    The new A1 class locomotive ‘Tornado’, along with the old streamlined A4 class locomotive ‘Union of South Africa’ hauled the special train which carried HM the Queen on her trip to open the Borders Railway. If the line could take an A4 and an A1, it can take an A3 such as ‘Flying Scotsman’, that engine is no larger.
    Anent the Fife run, as Robert Peffers wrote, if A3s and A4s could run on these lines back in the day, there is surely no reason why an A3 cannot run on that line today.
    Anent Robert Peffers’ point about A4s and Deltics carrying the Flying Scotsman nameplate – easily explained.
    There was a particular train service between Kings Cross and Waverley, named “The Flying Scotsman”. In its early days this train was often pulled by the locomotive “Flying Scotsman” – the difference is in the word “The” in the train’s title.
    That train is still running, but, is no longer pulled by the venerable restored locomotive.

  95. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Aye, here it is. The Penguin Parade.

    You can imagine Wee Wullie at the front with his costume on, grinning like bezoomny and waddling like Charlie Chaplin, lovin’ every second of it…

  96. Ruby says:

    Do you think Willie Rennie’s campaign tactic of turning himself into a ‘celeb’ paid off?

    I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade… And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party. Ron White

  97. DerekM says:

    Damn those Penguins are quick of the mark just got an email from them.

    Please please dont let Willie in our enclosure or we will go on hunger strike,though the polar bears wouldnt mind they love rotting meat.

    Damn and the pandas have been on to complain as well they say they will go back to China if we put Willie in with them.

    Dont worry pandas we would never do that to you 🙂

  98. geeo says:


    Our play off victory v hibs was pure football drama, a throwback to when Scottish football was exciting. 2 attack minded teams, a full stadium with a large away support, 2 sets of fans giving it laldy for 90 mins.

    Scoring with 13 seconds left on Friday the 13th, was something beyond weird, yet today, i smiled when I realised that during the SE campaign, Kezia Dugdale “outed” herself as a Hibs fan….

    Begs the question, could Kezia back the winner in a single entry raffle ?? ???

  99. Ken500 says:

    In the City a (Non) Green elected to stop the road is/or was the Deputy Head of the unelected (non) Green Unionist and NO Party. Extra remuneration. To get the often needed casting vote (with the status quo) it can tip the balance. Some have not always voted as they should with the unelected (non) Green Unionist and NO Party but on a regular basis that is what gets thing through.

    Before the last Council election (four years ago) the largest Party was SNP (pre unelected (non) Green Unionist and NO Party – pre Indy Ref 2014. Supported by other Unionist Parties. The majority UTG Project was going ahead, the Football Stadium was going ahead + other projects. They would have been built now. The Labour Party got control Willy Young, the dangerous idiot, despised in Unison by the whole community. The unelected (non) Green Unionist and NO Party stopped all these developments, and brought in all the grotesque £Millions wasting projected. Totally rejected by the majority. Ruining the City centre, causing traffic chaos etc. And claiming there are not enough funds for essential public service.

    On of the only positive results of the Holyrood Elections is that Willy Young did not get in with all the rest of the unelected, troughing, useless, greedy pigs.

    Now the rout has started and continues. All these other projects are now being punted, Press etc by the unelected (non) Green and Unionist NO Party. Especially with the 2017 Council Elections approaching. The rout starts now. They are not going to get away with it. In the undemocrstic society. Acting against the majority wishes and the public interest. Wasting £Million/Bilions of public money. Putting the Local Authorities in debt.

    Just hope enough people are not taken in again. People wanted the groteque carbuncle plans called in by the SNP Gov but Alex Neil decided it was better to support local democracy. The local (non) democracy and more power for the (non) Green and Unionist NO Party. Devolving more powers to the local authorities. A wipe out.

    When the unelected (non) Green Campaigns were going on. Harvie came to visit – they are always looking for a but of cheap publicity to keep the cheques and funding going in. Hold to account – that is the last thing that happened. Harvie joined in and publicised the rout. To the annoyance of the local majority. No held to account – support for ‘radical’ illegal policies.

    The only way is to vote an SNP majority council who listen to the local community and support their plans. Hooefully the pedestrianisation UTG Project can be revisited and go ahead. With an exit down to the Green (ironically enough) and Union Square under the Union Terrace Bridge which would regenerate the whole area. It is (illegally) inaccessible just now because there is no disable
    or push chair access.

    If the unelected (non) Green and Unionist NO Party has not managed to bankrupt the City and cut the essential services.

  100. call me dave says:

    Lovely cartoon!

    You could have stuck Deputy Dugdale’s heed on the other end or even Wullie’s would have done..
    Just sums it up fine.

    Pretty quiet today.

    Sturgeon facing struggle to win backing for council tax reforms

    She looks worried…not!

    Murray match was delayed but just starting now if you like.

  101. geeo says:

    I have to comment on the false story going about on here regarding Wullie ‘pingu’ Rennie.

    I have it on good authority that all his spare time will be taken up with filming the new series of Still Game, unless someone can confirm his character Tam, will be missing from the show?

    As for Ruthie, surely she will simply bring up the referendum issue every time Nicola aks her anything she has no answer for. So that should pretty much be all the time. FMQ’s cannot come quick enough.

  102. heedtracker says:

    G4jeepers says:
    14 May, 2016 at 1:59 pm

    “The main objection from the greens was in regard to the SSSI, which would have to be dug up to facilitate the second course, which hasn’t been built yet.”

    That’s not true though. The main objections are, as per usual with Scottish Green party, nimby-ism. It was all about NIMBY stuff and always is with the Green blockers.

    Trump said 6000 jobs will come in with the course and hotel. Even if that’s only half true, makes no odds to the Green party blockers.

    And now, thanks to D’Hondt tactical voting apparently, the Green blockers have the power to go, “if you dont block this and that, we wont let you have ref 2.” Great stuff.

    Anyhoo, G4jeepers, what was the Green block on the AWPR for the north east of Scotland land?

    Green blocking’s added a billion quid AWPR construction costs, so it be nice to hear the same Green blocking detail you give Trump Golf.

    And you cant say, because its show’s horrid Alex Salmond’s green Scotland was a lie.

    But you will. Or at least that’s the Harvie line on things like a modern transport infrastructure for Scotland, you cant build that, its a lovely field, its an adiction to hydro carbon’s, so what if England’s got a giant 21st century road and rail network, they need it, Scotland’s fine, shadap, we’ll vote NO, we’re the Green party, we’re nice, not nimby…

  103. Ken500 says:

    The local committee approved the Plans. Any unresolved issues amounted to 10 households putting up false flag objection. (Wanting on stay or more money) – which was absolutely no problem
    Supported 10 to 1 by all. The Press were banned from the Balmedie School Meeting illegally. It was supposed to be an open meeting. Ford had absolutely no authority to take the meeting over it was nothing to do with him. Some people thought he was from ‘Historic Scotland’. There was absolutely no majority feeling at the Balmedie School meeting to go back to the drawing board. The majority view of the local was that the plans/Development should go ahead. If the local committee had voted against. There would have been considerable majority local disapproval. The did as they were required. Or else.

    There were two packed local meeting with Trump Officials in the Church Hall with total majority approval, people wanted to know about the Development and Plans. Only one woman negatively mention birds to general disapproval. The estate had been a private ‘shooting’ birds estate. It was being opened up to public use. The locals were excited. It is a quiet, non eventual area. The Development could put Balmedie on the Map.

    The knowledge that their houses would go up in valued added to the excitement. An impressive Green major development which encourages sport. It encourages people to get out in the countryside and fresh air to encourage health. it encouraged tourism. Rambler with sticks encouraging trade and enterprise.

    It had been an SSI for a rare plant ‘Lizard tongue’ which was no longer there. A surprise for the locals. The only reference ‘shifting sand’ was a 1984 Aberdeenshire Council letter which was unsigned . The expert Environmental Professor who had studying the coast for thirty years approved of the Project and stated ‘it would make no difference to the sand’. The sand would just continue shifting, up and down the coast, as long as the wind blows.

    Councillors illegally stated to campaign against the plans whenever they found out about them. Using insider knowledge. They are required by law to be impartial and consider development productively. Some people look on the (non) Greens as weirdos who want to muck up other people’s lives’ and cause them unrealistic strife because of their irrational obsession with single interests.and are superior and arrogant.

    The P & J totally were anti Trump at first. The journalists were going about wearing anti-Trump badges. The Paper changed when the outcry started when Ford as chairman of the infrastructure committee voted against, and stated the Development was finished it, he had stopped It ‘the plan was dead’. The full council met to overthrow his decision. They were throw out of the LibDem Party.

    No one knew that the Scottish Gov could call it in. The rest is history. A 6 week Public Inquiry wasting public money, The Reporter approved with mitigation. The majority of the locals celebrated at the local inn. In the usual unruly manner. Some being sat on to keep them down and not cause any trouble. Crofter Forbes and his brother. Now banned for ever.

  104. yesindyref2 says:

    The Labour party need something to differentiate themselves from the Tories. What would be funny if in the event of public support for Indy Ref 2, or need via forced Brexit for Scotland, they gave their vote to asking for Indy Ref 2, and took a neutral stance on the Ref itself. It would give the Labour party some Redemption, as the could get and even be freely given by the SNP, creds for recognising Democracy in action.

  105. Ken500 says:

    The P & J became supportive was a commercial decision to sell more copies. In line with the majority of their readers wishes. The headlines ‘ Numpty Turnips’ with the photo of the councillors who voted against the a Development.

    Thompson Press. Dundee United going down,

    It helped later when the Editor married Sarah who is head of administration at the Trump Golf Development. The paper was very critical of Alex Salmond when he criticised Trump. Alex fell out with a Trump because of his opposition to the Aberdeen Bay wind turbines. It is supposed to be going ahead. Mebees Aye, Mebees Naw. The usual.

  106. Les Wilson says:

    Oh the REV needs to be careful, an unexploded WW2 bomb found in bath. I will be suspicious though, if under the his property….

  107. Ken500 says:

    The Labour Party tells lies. Full stop. They along with the rest of the (non) Green and Unionist anti Democratic NO Party. Great big porkies.

    It is doubtful if the (non) Greens would ever carry on in Edinburgh/Central Belt as they have done in the NE. They think they will get away with it. They are nasty little exhibitionists. The more they shriek and shout and muck up everyone else’s lives’, about some insequential load of rubbish. The more the cheques and donations keep coming in from landowners and Unionist their national partners. Along with the public troughed money – even from the SNP. While they try to muck up the Gov. They are inscrutable.

  108. yesindyref2 says:

    That’s coincidental. Article in the Herald where Dugdale vows to stick to policies. There’s a clear vacuum in Scottish politics, was during the Indy Ref, and that’s for a party that takes the neutral ground, genuinely, and does its best to provide impartial and truly independent information for Indy Ref 2. It would have to be genuine or we’d all rip it to shreds same as we did the reporting of IFS, CPPR, OBR and all the other TLAs employed or corrupted by Better Together.

    Quite dangerous for the SNP afterwards, as I think such a neutral centre ground constitutionally would gain a lot of respect in Scotland if they did it properly. Ironically also Labour are the best able to do that, they have the likes of Brian Ashcroft and others. It’s what they should have done in Indy Ref 1, they’d still be second in Holyrood, if not even haing reduced the SNP to the largest party as in 2007.

  109. Thepnr says:


    Your mixing up your Thompsons with your Thomsons. You don’t half talk a load of shite.

  110. mumsyhugs says:

    Flying Scotsman is back on! 🙂

  111. call me dave says:


    Yes indeed it would be, but it’s not likely to happen.
    There are many ‘big beasts’ now without a seat in WM or Holyrood and policy advisors too, still influencing the direction of the labour party from the back seat of the now single decker bus.

    There will have to be a cathartic event within these internal factions to resolve what they are to do. Even then they are likely to make the wrong move.

    It’ll not be long to see how things are unfolding in the parliament as Tories find the going tougher and the labour party spectate for a while from the sidelines with the Lib/Dems.

    Everyone will want to see how the Greens play it with their views on the Council Tax; APD and the NP policy.

    I want to give credit here to Deputy Dugdale on QT who IMO played a straight bat on the matter and did not rule out support for NP in the long run.

    Give it a month and it will all become clearer. I’m optimistic about it all. 🙂

    Too easy for Murray in a hurry at the Tennis.
    2-0 and now waiting for Djo! 🙂

  112. heedtracker says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    14 May, 2016 at 3:15 pm

    SLab’s beyond redemption. Is there any YESer’s around that would believe anything they say?

    The only ref 2 trigger that would create a YES SLabour is if they thought YES would lose.

    Its dysfunctional UKOK politics in a toryboy world. What if working class so safe to vote for Ruth MacThatcher, had been SLabour leader and vice versa with Dugdale?

    Tory BBC led media now all say, worship Ruth MacThatcher, she’ll save teamGB and to be fair, a lot of Lab votes believe it, regardless of just how shite the whole red and blue tory yoon BBC clusterfudge is for Scotland.

  113. G4jeepers says:


    Certainly there was a bit of NIMBYISM on the part of Cnclr Storr, she was quite vociferously against. Even during a protest march along the beach nobody walked beside her because they disagreed with her policy.
    Unfortunately that’s what Greens are for.
    The AWPR was held up by some guy at Aberdeen Uni who ran away back to Leeds, not sure if he was Green or no.

  114. Capella says:

    @ G4jeepers
    Ken500 conflates events in the Aberdeen City Council (0 Greens) e.g. Union Terrace Gardens, and the Aberdeenshire Council (2 Greens) e.g. the Donald Trump development and Aberdeen City Bypass. There were no Greens on Aberdeenshire council at the time of the Trump debacle. Martin Ford was a Liberal Democrat for 20 years. Now he supports an SNP administration.

    I agree that the objection to Trump was the destruction of a SSSI. Martin Ford, as Chair of the Planning Committee, did the right thing in casting his vote for the status quo as the committee was evenly split.

    The Bypass had to go through a lengthy planning process with objections coming mainly from wealthy home owners in Cults – Tory to a man. The Rudolf Steiner School which is a residential site for children with special needs also objected as it’s campus will now be split by a dual carriageway.

    What puzzles me is Ken’s apparent belief that the Greens are an incredibly powerful force in Scottish Local politics in spite of all the evidence to the contrary with Unionist parties making almost all decisions, often lobbied by wealthy interests.

  115. heedtracker says:

    G4jeepers says:
    14 May, 2016 at 1:59 pm

    Debra Storr was against the Trump golf course because of the threat to the SSSI site and possibly also because she lives there.

    Martin Ford was put in an awkward position with deciding vote

    Martin Ford, moved to Aberdeen, worked in Oddbins before getting into local politics, nice bloke, no degrees or anything, no planning background, we get what we dont bother voting for…

    Also but not only Trump Golf is on an SSSI but there are a dozen golf clubs built on SSSI’s acroos Scotland. Some make a sales pitch of it.

    Just north of Trump Golf, Newburgh golf club’s on the same SSSI, south of it, the oldest links golf club in the world, Royal Aberdeen, been there since the Picts and so on.

    Royal’s lay waste to the Cairngorms, for shooting and fishing, although they’ve fished out Salmon, but that’s all fine. Instead, Green’s go NO to a golf club.

    How frightfully Green.

  116. Ken500 says:

    Crofter Forbes is banned from the local inn not his brother. Who is an ardent SNP supporter. Car covered with stickers and flags, A real trouper. That’s brotherly love. They still get on. Crofter Forbes was being paid £20 an hour when Trump first came to town. The best of mates. When Trump didn’t offer £Million the relationship came to strife. The Crofters appeared to complain with a stooker on his arm.

    Trump has still done his old friend a favour. By including his property in the plans. The crofter’s land has planning permission for future development. If he wants to sell it. It is now worth £Million+ Instead of £300,000 as agricultural land. A few farmers got £Million+ for their land. Kerr Ching a nice little earner. Golfing holidays are up 100% in the region. Everyone wins but the (non) Greens. Right always champions over might,

  117. Robert Peffers says:

    @G4jeepers says: 14 May, 2016 at 12:36 pm:

    @Robdert Peffers,

    Don’t shoot the messenger, I’m just passing on the “excuse” given by the Herald.

    Oh! G4jeepers, I was not aiming at you. I drew a bead on the originators of the story that the loco could not pass through Dalmeny station. If I had aimed at you I would not have missed.

    I have certificates as a first class marksman from my time in the cadet force. As to posting in the Herald – I wouldn’t soil my hands doing that ever again. It is rather a long time since I last posted on that forum.

    I believe the report is quite poor journalism and the real story did not claim the loco was too wide, I read it as the rail regulator was just too idle to do the safety checks to show that it was NOT too wide.

  118. K1 says:

    Brilliant Chris! Just absolutely expresses the reality of where we are at. 🙂

    Yes. The Tories don’t want another referendum, this needs to be repeatedly stated over and over again…it is not up to the Tories to decide Scotland’s future on the constitutional question, it is up to the people of Scotland.

    Did the Tories state in their manifesto that there will never be another referendum on Scotland’s Independence? No or yes, it does not matter. Why? Because they cannot decide that question.

    The relentless narrative of ‘no referendum’ from the Toires is directly proportional to the abject powerlessness of their ability to prevent another referendum.

    The more they scream and scream about it, the more it reveals their impotence.

    The flaccid Tories have been r/ejected by the people of Scotland. They are in fact…a spent force.

  119. Dave Robb says:

    o/t – Flying Scotsman back on to Borders.

    Strange that the 2 visiting steam locos that came to the opening were slightly bigger and heavier versions of the A3, and based on it -ask any anorak – and whatever the twit from Network Rail may claim, it was completely ridiculous to require an entirely separate safety case.

    If Network Rail can’t organise a simple comparison of the data stored on 60103 with its cousins time given months of notice, should we trust anything else they are supposed to be doing?

    Were they going to send a man down the line with a clipboard and a bit of string?

  120. Gary45% says:

    Nice one Chris to the point as usual.
    Could have added wee “pupils premium” Wullie as a tea boy, at least we would then know what his use in life is.
    Then again after his election merry go round , he may well get a job running the waltzer at the fun fair.

  121. Capella says:

    Dr Martin Ford has a PhD and was a botanist. See Wikipedia.

    “Ford trained as a botanist completing a doctorate University of Wales (at University College Swansea) in 1986; ‘Pollinator-mediated interactions between out-breeding annual weeds’. In 1988 he moved to Aberdeenshire to work at the North of Scotland College of Agriculture.”

  122. heedtracker says:

    The Bypass had to go through a lengthy planning process with objections coming mainly from wealthy home owners in Cults – Tory to a man. The Rudolf Steiner School which is a residential site for children with special needs also objected as it’s campus will now be split by a dual carriageway.

    Capella, that route went through Beildside though. It was a group of wealthy objectors that piled in with the Rudolf Steiner school objection but they’re green belt residents all along the green belt by=pass route, and all coordinated by the local Green MSP.

    A lot of the wealthy objectors that blocked the AWPR now find that the by-pass has actually had to be moved further west and they now will live alongside it because of their objections.

    But, one planning technique for roads is to pick the most unpopular route going, let all the objections win, get the route you do need.

    Does the north east of Scotland actually need a modern road transport infrastructure?

    Not if youre a Green nimby.

    The decades long block on the AWPR hasn’t just added a thousand million quid to build costs, its cost the north east of Scotland who knows how many billions in lost economic growth.

    None of that matters though, if you’re the blockers.

    Who knows maybe the north east of Scotland, Peterhead to Inverness, the Buchan coast etc are better UKOK off as sleepy back waters and retirement second homes for wealthy middle class Scotland.

    England’s got a road network that’s probably the biggest and most advanced in Europe now and they have the fourth largest world economy too. It’s not by chance but we’ll see in a generation.

  123. Ken500 says:

    Ford came to the NE to work in the Bucksburn Rowat Institute. Made redundant, The historic Institute is now up for development in Young & Barney’s latest birdbrain £300Million borrowed Conference Centre. Conveniently in Barney’s constituency. The historic Rowat Instittute will be knocked down. Demolished. Gone for ever. Hopefully Taking Young Barney Ford with it.

    There was friction in the (non) Green and troughers Party because Ford was saying another candidate did not have a gdegree accredited to it.

    Hold on a minute. The next birdbrain scheme to waste public money, That could be the next (non) Green and Unionist unelected No Party campaign for attention. They will need another to supplement the public money coming from the Parliament. Wasting two birds with one campaign.

  124. Breeks says:

    I’ll never forgive Ruth the mooth for riding that buffalo.

    Anybody who’s ever been to Buffalo Joes in Gateshead will understand.

  125. jacksg says:

    Very Interesting article

    Britain should stop trying to pretend that its empire was benevolent.

  126. DerekM says:

    @ Breeks

    Aye Breeks in the fairness of equality and animal rights i think we should let the buffalo mount her.

    He is still fuming and sacked his agent as he thought he was meeting someone important,in a letter to the press he wrote i am not a tank lol

  127. Capella says:

    Here is a list of Green Councillors. You will see that the only Councils to have more than one Green are Edinburgh and Glasgow, both with bypasses. In fact there were no Green Councillors before 2007. Aberdeenhire’s was elected in 2012.

    How non-councillors can be responsible for decades of planning decisions is a mystery which Ken500 and heedtracker will no doubt resolve by magic numbers.

    The only bypass of interest here is their complete circumnavigation of the facts.

  128. carjamtic says:

    Ruby @ 1:03

    Aye,we all need a laugh.

    Unlike Eddie Izzard

    Peter Kay and Johnny Vegas have cancelled their fringe shows in view of the results at the recent Scottish Parliamentary elections.

    Shooting their new movie, Berries on your Veggies, on location at, ‘whit’s it called? Cumbernauld’……. the sequel to the Sex Life of the Potato Men, (aka I Lost My Heart in Fat Sam’s Disco)…..Kay said ‘It’s a love story, the main characters, Rosie Red Legs and Candy meet unemployed offshore worker Kinkade and after some initial hostility about the bar bill, they agree they’re ‘all better together’ with Kinkade receiving a weekly allowance, to maintain the illusion of independence to his mates. It all goes tits up when the ladies fall for a silver tongued, local Lib/Dem candidate’.

    He tells them ‘Most folk think I’m away wae the faires, but they dinnae ken all ma eggs are double-yoakit’

    The comics reflected…..

    ‘We enjoyed Willie’s capers immensely, he gave us the inspiration, for the main love rival, (sort of open all hours/some mothers do have them type character), indeed his love of tattie scones and fruit pastilles, inspired one or two scenes in the film, the climax being the declaration itself’.

    However, the smile was soon ripped off our face when, the Tank Commander and Jaba, results came in, ‘Well that’s us two fukced now, we won’t be able to even go for a sticky bun in Rose Street or a steak bake in Argyll Street without getting pelter’s’….Johnny later admitted, off camera, he had it the worst, ‘kin Dumbarton, always let me coupon down ’ he muttered, as he headed off the to join the other unloved yoon msp,looky likies,for some lunch ‘ a half pint of lager with a pie ina bridie ina ingin ane anaw twice please luv’.

    ‘Aye Auld Reekie’ it’s well named, Kay lamented, ‘five effin years’ he sighed, ‘Postal….Votes….by post…..Postal Votes? got to hand it to them yoons, absolute genius’, he glanced over, in time to see a Max Wall slither under an adjacent table, the empty pint glasses, testimony to his recent downward spiral into BuckFast addiction…….the barmaid muttered to no-one in particular, ’better together, my arse’…a small gaggle of displaced yoon mp’s in the corner, nodded in agreement, then fight started….somebody had double dipped the kitty money.

    Later, as the now recovered ‘smiling undertaker’, wheeled out the bodies, no-one noticed, all the (made in China) dominos had scattered on the floor, except one, the blank/one….the single black spot…glistening in a ray of light,reflected off, the glass cased model of the ‘Yellow Caravel’, suspended above the bar.

    ‘Yer a barred’ said the barmaid, strutting confidently in her tartan stiletto’s…..the looky likies, trudged off to catch the magic bus, barely glancing at the high definition, curved televisions screens in the shop window or even registering,the onscreen image of the Watergaw that hung over Westminster.

    Good luck to all the NC500 participants.

  129. Ken500 says:

    The Bieldside objectors whose home were needed and were compulsory purchased got £Millions. Top compensation. Rudolf Steiner would have got the same. They seem to have moved down the road a bit. There are renovations going on. They could be expanding.

    The American School was rebuilt. An impressive building.

    The deputy head of ACC (non) Green and Unionist NO Party, often the spokesperson, is a (non) Green and casts the vote for the status quo. The (non) Green and Unionist NO Party are the (non) Greens natural partners.. No ‘radical’ policies or ‘holding to account’. As they muck up others lives . Cutting essential services and wasting money on grotesque carbuncles when the vulnerable can’t get the help they need. They claim they have not got money for essential services. A grotesque lie. They would have if they managed their budget and did not waste public money on appalling non essential building.

    The (non) Green deputy leader (extra remuneration) is still there influencing these affairs. Unless they have stood down, highly unlikely. They could be trying to hide to avoid responsibility. They could be hiding under ‘Independent’. They often do to avoid responsibility. They were elected by anti road objectors, and to stop every thing else, the majority wishes, Against the public interest.

    Other developments. An inquiry on poor public services and delivery, could be resulting in less self seeking publicity.

    For two (non) Greens to hold up development in a whole region for years and muck up people’s lives with no authority. 1 (non) Green in a local authority acting against the public wishes and influencing the decisions. Acting as chief spokesperson is not an insignificant amount of concern of the (non) Green involvement, and the affect on publc services and people’s lives. it is more than a cause for concern. Self seekers – destroying public services, investments and wasting £Billion of public money which could have been better spent to Improve society.

    @ Misspelling is not a crime. It is to point it out. Technolgy can sometime not carry out tasks as described. i.e. predictive text. No matter how much it is checked. It can still turn out a mess.

  130. Proud Cybernat says:

    Fab ‘toon, Chris.

    And Roothie–when it gets too hot doon there, drip-drip just won’t cut it:

  131. yesindyref2 says:

    I don’t understand all this crap about the Aberdeen by-pass. As far as I know it was started by Labour / LibDem, given approval after a public inquiry, but then legally challenged by an organisation I haven’t seen mentioned here called “Road Sense”, a group of local residents who complained they weren;t consutled about the route, who employed the excellent Aidan O’Neill to represent them.

    That’s what it’s about, a legal challenge which went on appeal to the Supreme Court and lost, and has fuck all to do with Green councillors.

  132. yesindyref2 says:

    Excuse le merde francais.

  133. Ken500 says:

    Before 2011 the 2 (non) Greens were hiding in the FibDems to get power. No principles. They didn’t even stand as Independents. They joined a Party they knew they would get elected in. So they could do as much damage as they could. They were at for years – over 15 years?

    They are cuckoos in the nest. The FibDems let them do their worse as long as no one noticed. Drinks Parties with the local Landowners – illegal planning permission in the bag and another back donation in the back pocket. Mix and mingle in their own self interest and muck up the general public. Don’t upset the local landowner. Just get the contribution. The only thing Malcolm Bruce did in thirty years was protect the overnight sleeper. They like to travel up and down to London on it – on expenses. To get an early night. All the Oil & Gas tax revenues went with it. Stagecoach robbery. There is a major road to his constituency but nothing for everyone else out of the City.

    The FibDems are full of Tories anyway. Their natural partners. So they will get elected in, to do as much damage as they can. An absolute disgrace.

    The AWPR took over years, The duel carriaging of the major road was supposed to be done 25 years ago. There was an exhibition of the plans. There have been accident and death of innocent people ever since. The (non) Green and Unionist NO Party even try to deceitfully take credit for building it. Liars.

  134. yesindyref2 says:

    “cuckoo” is the right word. Second one in May.

  135. Ken500 says:

    The majority in the region knows the facts unlike some digressers. They will vote accordingly. SNP x 2.

    Now for the Council Elections 2017 They will get it.

  136. K1 says:

    Can I just welcome everyone to the newly formed:

    Wings Over:

    Bypass/Greens/libdems/omfgkillmenow/planning/dualcarriegeway/Aberdeen/Greens/nimby/robbery/Greensbad Scotland.

    Normal service may never be resumed, so suck it up folks!

  137. Paula Rose says:

    @ K1 fabby giggle xx

  138. Thepnr says:


    Just class 🙂

  139. Gary45% says:

    Aberdeen NEEDS a bypass, the city is gridlocked and a pain in the arse to get through, its called an aid to commerce and will help SCOTLAND flourish, and if anyone can’t see this they are Yoonatics.

    Yes lets live up trees and cuddle squirrels and when we have to cut down said trees to fuc*ing heat ourselves as the countries industries grind to a halt, you can take in the squirrels and other wee creatures and they can shit on your carpets, then You can bitch about that also.
    Before anyone goes off on one, I respect nature and the environment, but common sense has to prevail.

    It is one thing banging the drum about public transport and cutting down the need for cars etc, this might be possible in major cities but outside of that, you need INFRASTRUCTURE i.e decent roads etc.
    I have had a stunning view from my house for 20 years, about 5 years ago wind turbines went up, I was pissed off at the time, they are still a pain in the arse but you have to accept them, Its called a vision of forward planning.

  140. yesindyref2 says:


  141. K1 says:

    It’s no use yesIr2, it’s over…get in the pod…we have to get off this ship before it blows…grab your copy of Scotland’s Future, a National, and some oatcakes, there’s no more time left….

    A new Scotia is possible.

  142. Al Dossary says:

    Aberdeen needs a bypass – That much everyone agrees on. That it took 40 years to be built is a scandal. The A90 north to the Broch and Peterhead – what a hellhole. 45 miles of (mostly) 2 lane trunk road, nose to tail at the respective morning and afternoon rush hours to and from Aberdeen. Beecham has a lot to answer for in that corner of the country.

    What did my dinger in was the 45 minutes to travel from Aberdeen Airpark to Haudagain – some 7 miles if my memory is correct and then only 150 minutes to do the remaining 140 miles to home.

    Yo can really see the beneficial effect that the M74 extension has had in Glasgow – hopefuly the new western periphery will do the same for Aberdeen, and also the massive amount of works ongoing at present around the M8 & M74 in the central belt also.

    Scottish Labour stood on the promise of completing the M8 ring road many times, but it took the SNP to actually do something about it.

  143. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, sounds good.

    Can I bring my blue recycle bin with me?

  144. Luigi says:

    The red tory councillors in Aberdeen strongly opposed a Third Don crossing on the basis that the increased traffic would be detrimental to the innocent residents of Tillydrone. Tillydrone residents matter, apparently.

    The very same councillors (to a man) strongly pushed for a Haudagain junction upgrade, even though this involved the eviction of innocent tenants and the bulldozing of many flats. The residents around Haudagain don’t seem to matter.

    The red tories are also fond of their great big white elephant project, a new conference centre even though the existing one is underused. That’s the red tory solution when things don’t work – throw more taxpayers’ money at it.

    I really hope those buffoons are run out of town at the council elections next year.

  145. K1 says:

    No. That’s way too Green!

    *mumbles…’what are you thinking man’*

  146. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh OK, I’ll just throw it overboard with the rest of the galley gash, empty bottles ‘n ‘a.

    I think I’ve a couple of half full bottles of malt …

  147. K1 says:

    yesIr2, drink up and enjoy the ride 😉

    I’m off tae watch Wings of Desire again…nostalgia for the future, not the past.

    Enjoy the lovely evening wherever ye are in the land of unicorns and lions. 🙂

  148. AhuraMazda says:

    I like the cartoon but the title of this blogpost makes me wonder which of two the hearth belongs to and which of them is supposed to be Pyrrhus. Ruth, of course, didn’t acheive a victory.

    I suppose it works both ways, depending on how you look at it.

  149. Ken500 says:

    Peter Kay did an amazing 80’s disco night at the AEEC recently, for charity, Best Laugh ever. Totally Brilliant. He totally gets Scotland. Doesn’t get austerity.

  150. Croompenstein says:

    What about the horse and cart road from Ayr to Cairnryan and Stranraer, the main connection to Ireland. Fucking disgrace.. Stranraer to Dumfries one of our main death roads.. fuckin better together my arse but strangely they vote for the union in D&G, when will the scales fall from their eyes.. 🙁

  151. yesindyref2 says:

    Naw it disnae.

  152. AhuraMazda says:

    So you are saying Ruth owns the hearth and is Pyrrhus.

  153. Fireproofjim says:

    Aberdeen bypass. Enough already. Totally boring after the first fifty or so posts.
    Wings is a political entity. Let’s talk politics.

  154. My wife has just called me.There is a group of 47 children from Glasgow on Britain’s Got Talent. They all have Union flags. This becoming absolutely infantile

  155. Grouse Beater says:

    A poetic reprise:

  156. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    What’s this about an Aberdeen bypass? Have I missed something? Tell me less!


    BTW: excellent cartoon, the very reason for all these comments’ existence.

  157. Another Union Dividend says:

    Must watch Frankie Boyle comparing Friday’s Have I Got News For You with scathing comments on Scottish Elections, Gordon Brown, the Queen and David Attenborough much to the discomfort of Ian Hyslop and Paul Merton.

  158. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh shut up AM, you might be “hearth” right sometimes.

  159. Tam Jardine says:


    You are asking the question so that is a beginning. When will the scales fall from the eyes of those in D&G?

    There is this view abroad that people in Dumfries and Galloway and the Borders are somehow this crazy George Osborne lovin poll tax endorsin unionist, tory recidivists.

    Fuck sake. Do we really want to write part of our country off? The people who talk about the borders and D&G on this site have no fkn clue about the motivations of folk in the south of Scotland and they have zero idea of history.

    If you don’t understand why folk in the south of Scotland feel distant from the government then you are not grasping the fookin point.

    The short version is: we are in this together. Government has failed D&G and the Borders… for decades.

    The region has suffered industrial decimation without the headlines and is quietly proceeding with bus links and shitey rail connections and English TV beamed in.

    It is Scotland in miniature

  160. Iain d says:

    Fuck it we won, the yoons lost big time. We must focus on the primary objective of the Scottish people. Who really gives a shit who came third. Scotland needs independence asp. We must ensure that Scotland is free from the suffocating grip of the uk.

  161. heedtracker says:

    How non-councillors can be responsible for decades of planning decisions is a mystery which Ken500 and heedtracker will no doubt resolve by magic numbers.

    The only bypass of interest here is their complete circumnavigation of the facts.

    Poppy cock Cappella.

    Green Party co-leader Patrick Harvie led the criticism from the environmental lobby.

    He said: “Alex Salmond’s administration has today issued a slap in the face to everyone who wants to see a successful, low-carbon Scotland, a Scotland which plays a responsible role internationally.

    “Scottish ministers may have accepted Parliament’s tougher climate targets earlier this year but they are determined not to let those targets improve transport policy.”

    Leading to £1 million+ High Court legal challenges over several years

    The Green Party also described the decision as a “body blow to North-east communities”.

    Patrick Harvie MSP said: “Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire have been desperate for decades for a real answer to the region’s transport problems, a solution based on Crossrail and other investment in public transport.

    “Those vital projects have gone nowhere, though, and instead Ministers are imposing a development corridor that will lead to even worse congestion in and around the city.”

    There’s a fair other Greens in the mix, south of Stoney etc.

    But this blocker’s back home, where oddly enough, he’s not blocking the multi billion ongoing road and rail network infrastructure network spends for Newcaste. How frightfully Green

    “The man responsible for driving forward the campaign to block the Aberdeen bypass is plotting his legal challenge from his new home – in the north-east of England.

    William Walton, the man behind the RoadSense group which has campaigned against the Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route (AWPR), has left Scotland after losing his university job.

    The news has sparked anger among people in the north-east of Scotland given Walton’s opposition to the AWPR, which business leaders believe is essential if Aberdeen is to devise a traffic infrastructure fit for the 21st century”

    Wye aye man!

  162. AhuraMazda says:

    With all this talk of Yoons and such, one of the big mistakes I think the independence movement continues to make is to assume that we have one single problem, enemy, or nut to crack; unionists.

    It struck me that the single enemy model isn’t very helpful. And, in actual fact, it makes a lot more sense for us to break the problem down in to component parts.

    Thus, if I was managing the next referendum campaign, I would prioritise the following 3 areas and address them individually. Even moderate success on each of the following fronts would combine, I am sure, to the aggregate, making victory certain.

    1) Second homes. If St Ives can put limits on second home ownership then we can too. I believe Australia even has limits imposed on second home ownership. As I understand it, many people with second homes in Scotland were entitled to vote and many of them voted No.

    2) The Franchise. It’s imperative that the franchise is restricted. I think residence here is a good way to do it but it should be over a sustained period of say 5 years or more. I think it would be fair to say that only those who have lived here for say 5 uninterrupted years is eligible to vote. It’s ridiculous that so many people from outwith Scotland (many of whom have a clear vested interest in maintaining the Union) should be allowed to undermine our democratic will.

    3) Address the perception that supporters of independence are radical socialists. An obvious way to do this would be to develop the economy and give more emphasis to business concerns. A vibrant economy creates jobs and benefits for everyone remember, not just the wealthy. The SNP needs to be more creative here. If fracking can be done safely we should do it, providing it generates funds that could be used to create jobs and boost the economy.

    There are other areas that need attention but we are all familiar with them. The 3 above are key. If we were serious about learning lessons from 2014, well let’s learn them. These areas above need to be addressed immediately so that in 5 years time the ducks are all in a row for us.

  163. Tam Jardine says:


    To answer your question: The scales will fall from their eyes when we can give people in Dumfries and Galloway, and the Borders, and the Orkneys and the Shetlands good reason to believe in this project.

    We are not there yet- clearly.

    For as long as the peripheral areas of Scotland are peripheral they will stubbornly return representatives the centre does not like.

  164. Ian Brotherhood says:

    I propose that we start using ‘libdem’ as a verb, in much the same way that poor old Hibs’ name has recently been used to describe bottling.

    It’s up for debate what the definition covers, but here’s an example.

    ‘What did you do at the week-end?’
    ‘Ach, I was just libdemming around the house.’

    In this case, the second speaker is informing his friend that he stayed at home, ostensibly working on an important DIY project, but actually just fannied about the place, moving things and making a noise whenever he thought his wife was around.

    ‘How’s your lassie getting on at uni?’
    ‘Oh, she just libdemmed first year, but she’s getting the head down now.’

    In this second example, the responder indicates that her daughter turned up for lectures, completed assignments, and passed her exams, but only by the barest margins possible – she was ‘there’ when she had to be, but achieved nothing substantial, learned little, and understood even less.

    Anyone want to suggest other applications?

  165. John Thomson says:

    OT sorry just watching euro song contest, for all the greenies their electric bill must be enormous. Did not know we get a free entry to the finals due to amount of money that we contribute. Cost to stage this event must be enormous no thought for refugees.

  166. Fred says:

    Is there a sensible explanation as to why the gender-balanced Greens didn’t live up to their mission statement. What happened to the gender-balanced list?

  167. Croompenstein says:

    Cmon Tam you know I’m not having a dig at folk like you, Macart or Lesley Anne (where is LA?).. I was talking about the shit infrastructure in South Scotland from Ayr – Stranraer – Dumfries.. but unfortunately there seems to be a die hard union vote in D&G I was only wondering when the scales will fall.

    Same with Orkney and Shetland, heroic effort from the Orkney 4 and funded by ordinary folk like me and you Tam but when will the scales fall from their eyes??

  168. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘Mum! What’s happened to my shirt?’

    ‘Talk to yer Da, eh? Stuck his spiderman onesie in with the whites, totally libdemmed the whole lot. He’s a total Rennie sometimes.’

    ‘Dad! Mum just called you a wank!’

  169. yesindyref2 says:

    I don’t think anyone would argue against the Greens and Harvie being a bit over the top at times. They’d have rural communities waiting for the once a day bus, or spend £billions of non-existent money having a half-hourly electric bus service between Kincardine O’Neill via Alford to Strathdon and Grantown, calling at all places in-between for a journey time of 5.5 hours (bring your own sleeping bag). Or people setting off for work at 4.30 in the morning on their bike to work at Durness, getting home at 10.30 at night. They understand commuters in Edinburgh and Glasgow and that’s it, the end of their horizons. They know nothing of the real world.

    But it wasn’t green councillors, and it wasn’t the green party that mounted a legal challenge, it was the bunch you mentioned, local residents and the usual hingers-on who think they’re friends of the universe.

  170. Croompenstein says:

    Russia or Cyprus for me.. 🙂

  171. John Young says:

    Robert Peffers at 11.40am: Robert I normally enjoy your posts but in the words of Kirsty Blackman MP, you are talking absolute mince with your statement:

    “The same goes for the Thin Blue Line across the borders that obviously are in a majority who want to remain part of England yet retain all the exclusive benefits bestowed upon them by the Scottish people.”

    There are many reasons for this Thin Blue Line but I cannot better this post from Indigo two topics ago: “The impact of broadcasting cannot be underestimated in terms of the independence / SNP movement because broadcasting has a massive impact on identity. If you live in the south chances are your TV defaults to BBC North East & Cumbria and iTV Newcastle. Many in the middle of Dumfries struggle to receive Scottish broadcasting. That means that not only do we have to go out of our way to access Scottish voices, it also means that south of Scotland voices are largely silent within Scotland’s broadcast experience of itself. We are rarely part of the Scottish conversation, and the SNP, frankly, have been astonishingly bad at even getting the geography of the south correct within some of their national communications.

    And that’s before you even touch on issues of transport, digital connectivity, centralisation, low wage economies, extraordinary high levels of self employment because industry has disappeared, disconnect from national agencies and so much more.

    I’m not at all surprised that the south voted Tory. I sincerely hope the SNP make some effort to understand the reasons why because that bright blue stripe stretching across the south illustrates a clear disconnect between the south of Scotland and the SNP.”

  172. Tam Jardine says:

    We may have to drag them, kicking and screaming to understand

    For my own part I need to be physically put to bed right now.

  173. heedtracker says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    14 May, 2016 at 10:08 pm

    They were directly involved, in the last big legal blocks to AWPR. Objections have been overcome but the whole investment issue block is blurred now, partly because yoon tory and SLab ACC, yoon SLab Holyrood and before that have both blocked and not invested in north east Scotland. The Green block on say Trump was simpler to see, they just said no Trump. AWPR block goes back decades.

    Aberdeen voted NO so its hard to listen to exact same yoon culture rage at Holyrood for more. But that’s just another aspect of yoon world in their Scotland region.

  174. Ghillie says:

    John Young @ 10.11pm

    Those are very important points you raise!

    Would you maybe consider writng to the SNP to share those obversations?

  175. mealer says:

    Yesindyref2 @ 10.08pm
    That’s a most excellent post and brought a big smile to my face.But……we have to remember that Green is a pan European,pan world protest movement.They have their agenda and they have their objectives.They enter the political fray to advance them.Thats admirable.But like every religion and most politics it makes a hypocrite out of every adherent.

    How can we take Pat Harvie seriously if he doesn’t live in a ditch and on nettle soup? And how can we hear Nicolas message of shared prosperity when it’s delivered via chic suits and sporty high heals instead of sack cloth? And so it has gone on for millennia.The lidlabdem thingy have a few policies on it too.

    Every party in the Scots parliament wants to even up the huge
    disparites that exist in Scotland.Question is,who really believes in Scotland?

  176. call me dave says:

    Deputy Dugdale in denial today, tomorrow in the Clyde!

    She should have learnt, rubbish in = rubbish out.

  177. heedtracker says:

    Another one for the BetterTogether bullshit pile of Project Fear

  178. yesindyref2 says:

    The thing is the Greens were in Coalition in a number of countries especially including Germany, and it didn’t seem to have done Germany any harm in its economy. I guess the Green party there must have been moderate in its policies, or at least while in Coalition.

    I think the Greens in Scotland missed a big opportunity this time. They blew it with the ridiculous 60% additional rate tax whereas they could perhaps have just had a policy of lowering the threshold from £160,000 to say £125,000 to reflect less high rate earnings in Scotland.

    And as for APD they could have gone the way I posted in the Herald both before and after the election, making it perhaps an up to 50% rebate depending on fuel efficiency and emissions (followed by the 100%). Set inititally so that every aircraft flying into and out of Scotland would get 100% rebate on the 50% or 100%, for 2 or 3 years, but then on a slow sliding scale to encourage greener flight and even flight paths. A policy that might get adopted elsewhere. As pointed out to me on the Herald most aircraft in Europe have higher fuel efficiency and lower emissions anyway.

    But no, they oppose a reduction to APD which in the UK is the highest in the EU, and the UK is one of only 6 countries in the EU that actually charge it.

    So basically Scotland can go eff itself to lead the world in greenness and poor economy – which in itself leads to higher emissions as people can’t afford fuel efficiency. Self-defeating as a policy.

    The Greens annoy me, not because they put up candidates in the HE, they’re entitled to as a party. They annoy me because they have their heads in the clouds, and their feet stuck into another part of their anatomy.

  179. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Does anyone else think that this new voting/results system for Eurovision is just too complicated to follow, if you’ve been partaking of cocktails, as you do?

    I’m lost…

  180. mealer says:

    I have a need,not desperate nor urgent but certainly to be fulfilled,to go to Wales and thank all those who are with us in our struggle.Can anyone give a pointer as to where a lad like might be welcome in Wales?

  181. Robert Kerr says:

    O/T sorry but I have partaken of EBC Propaganda in the form of “A very British Map The Ordnance Survey Story” recorded earlier.

    Very interesting in the subtle propaganda and belittling of Scots and Scotland.

    No mention whatsoever of General Roy.

    Scottish Scouts were included as a fun item at the end on how to fold a paper map, badly.

    No mention of the world class free historic map collection at the National Museum of Scotland.

    Warning. Perusing the NLS collection can be very time distorting.

    EBC are really excrement.

    I am not even upset, had a good dram first.

    Tiocfaidh ár lá

  182. call me dave says:

    It seems that green tea and gluten free scones have been shared at Bute House. Whether Sturgeon purred or not we will see!

    Patrick seems to think it’s all in the bag according to the Hootsman. Aye right!

  183. Tam Jardine says:


    Aye- I know you are not having a go. I have struggled with your question for a long time. People that I love; good people vote for a political party who are happy to tell 3,000 Syrian unaccompanied children to GTF. I don’t get it.

    I love Dumfries. I’m in love with Dumfries and Galloway. It is bizarre though Croomps. When I think of the Nith, and when I think of what was the Lyver, and when I think of the Range of the Awful Hand, and Criffel, and Old Mortality and his pony, and Burns, and the Hole in the wa, and the long wood hill and the dam at Tongland and Lotus Hill and Queensberry. Auchencairn. Kirkcudbright. Some 20, 30% of folk are mistaken and let us down.

    There are countries on this planet that would give their right arm to have what Dumfries and Galloway has going for it NEVER MIND the rest of Scotland. And some dudes want Cameron and the ruling elite to own it.

    Fuck all those cunts. END LONDON RULE

  184. Joe Coutts says:

    Talking about the Aberdeen bypass and related events. The heavy traffic from the south has been required for years, to take a bizarre dog leg detour to bypass the ancient Old Bridge of Dee.

    Did you see the latest suggestion for a replacement bridge over the Dee? Having cluttered the obvious area with an office block and retail warehouses, now there are plans to crush in a dual carriageway bridge into a single carrriageway space. That is – alongside and thus overpowering the said Old Bridge of Dee, OR building a new detour which cuts off north, then up the hill to the Robert Gordon University, then sharp right, down the hill through ASDA, Boots, B&Q and Currys, before returning to South Anderson Drive.

    Third time lucky; there were plans in the 50s and 80s when there was space – but too little too late. But no one asked me. Just saying.

  185. Dr Jim says:

    The FM should have no truck with Chairman Harvie and his wee band of Sherwood foresters, just put the policies to the vote and dare the horrible little squint of a man to block them then Scotland will see what the friends of the environment are made of just to get their own way in an election they didn’t win same as the rest of them

    Vote that in yer globally warmed Arse wee man

  186. heedtracker says:

    call me dave,

    What a load of Green .

    “Clearly Green politics are going to be more relevant than ever under Patrick the power broker.” And then he woke up.

    Did you know that if you turn up your thermostat just one degree, it produces enough carbophlorians to kill a penguin. It must be true, Patrick Harvie says so and he’s Green, Scottish Green.

  187. thomaspotter2014 says:

    Steady Dr.Jim, oor new best mates are the Greens.


    Would you rather it was Con/Lab/Lib/Ukip or the newly deceased RISE?

    Nicola and Alex will have a plan so relax and enjoy the show.

  188. Robert Peffers says:

    @John Young says: 14 May, 2016 at 10:11 pm:

    “ … Many in the middle of Dumfries struggle to receive Scottish broadcasting.”

    John, I live in Kelty in Fife. I don’t watch TV as it is very much Westminster Propaganda. Furthermore I have a rooftop VHF/DAB aerial on my cottage roof and it feeds a powerful Radio Frequency Amplifier. I have wired that setup to aerial sockets throughout the cottage and I still often have to struggle to receive good reception of BBC Scotland. BTW: Medium Wave reception is even worse.

    What is more there are many areas of Scotland every bit as badly served.

    As to TV reception it is possible to receive every local BBC regional area for free on BskyB. In any case the BBC radio stations almost all join Radio Five Live after midnight. This will read out the sports results but never mention Scottish football results.

    ” … And that’s before you even touch on issues of transport, digital connectivity, centralisation, low wage economies, extraordinary high levels of self employment because industry has disappeared, disconnect from national agencies and so much more”

    All these are also problems throughout most of Scotland. As I point out up-thread West Fife, for one example, was a mainly mining area and the pits were closed down. Then the largest single employment in Scotland was Rosyth Dockyard and that was closed down and privatise. Donibristle Air base was closed as was The NATO Base at Pitreivie Castle and the Armament Depot at Crombie.

    All within a few miles of each other and around Dunfermline. Not to mention several large stores depots, air bases and army bases.

    Transport links were also rather poor and many still are. You can bet your life that there will be traffic congestion reports on the radio at least twice per day for Dunfermline Wynd, (A main link from the M90 to the Town), as well as the bridge itself.

    If you imagine that Fife is well served by public transport you are dreaming. As I mentioned they rushed the M90, (so called), motorway and it originally did not even have hard shoulders. There were severe flooding problems too. Some of which still have not been solved.

    They built the new town of Glenrothes, supposedly to provide the infrastructure for a new super-pit that was closed before it even opened for production.

    Then they tabbed the town, “Silicon Glen”, but the electronics industry suffered severe cut backs and West Fife is an employment blackspot to this day. Then we have Glasgow and Greater Glasgow – some of the worst poverty blackspots in the Western World.

    For heaven sake all Scotland has suffered – what makes you imagine that D & G, or indeed the whole Thin Blue Line across the borders area, is any worse than anywhere else?

    “I’m not at all surprised that the south voted Tory. I sincerely hope the SNP make some effort to understand the reasons why because that bright blue stripe stretching across the south illustrates a clear disconnect between the south of Scotland and the SNP.”

    No one else is surprised either, John. Thing is the reasons being given ring rather hollow to much of the other regions of Scotland that have suffered, and go on suffering, the same, or very similar problems as the Thin Blue Line. And believe me I spent my entire lifetime taking every chance I could to travel all over Britain, (and Scotland in particular).

    If you doubt my word have a thought to the fact that, for example, areas of Glasgow are badly poverty stricken to the extent that their lifespans are the shortest in Europe and that is mainly due to abject poverty.

  189. Croompenstein says:

    @Tam –

    Ayr once again voted Tory, fuckin unbelievable can’t get my head round it. I remember when Younger was the MP, and the digging you did on the 30 year docs and how they sold us short deserved a wide audience shame on the SNP not highlighting it.

    Auld Ayr, I wonder if Prestwick will get the space port, something tells me it wont as another asset strip vindictive Westminster move against Scotland will show them for what they are. Question is will auld Ayr continue to vote unionist??

    Auld Ayr wham ne’er a toon surpasses,
    For unionist votin arses..

  190. yesindyref2 says:

    Well, I had my rant about the Greens, wanted to do it since before the election. I could add I think they ran a poor campaign, focussed on the wrong target with the SNP, were polling at 10% but only achieved 6.6% as a result, could have hit that 10% without affecting the SNP vote and got 10 MSPs at the expense of the LibDems, Labour and even the Tories, and perhaps even helped the SNP to keep an overall majority.

    Apart from the Indy Ref issue, the Greens hold no special sway with the SNP, and the thing is if the SNP go more left because of the Greens, it wouldn’t increase the YES vote either, it could reduce it, so Indy Ref 2 wouldn’t matter. I would say less strutting and more realism would do the Greens better, and make their future progress more probable. They need to grow some political savvy, in a hurry.

  191. yesindyref2 says:

    Indeed. So in the interests of balance it’s fair to say the SNP are fair doing my head in as well. There’s Dugdale apparently going to root out dud councillors which is obviously needed as the first step to reform the Labour party in Scotland, and instead of keeping their traps shut some thick SNP spokesperson is making some smarmy point about them.

    Well SNP this is a new age of politics, and for all we know it could be the Labour party who jumps in the deep end and raises that supporf for Indy from 50% to 60%, so kindly take those smarmy comments about another political party and ram them.

    There. Was that even-handed?

  192. John Silver says:

    @heedtracker & @Dr Jim
    Great, Let’s add the Greens to our list of enemies – that’s really going to help the Indy cause! If you guys think we can win Indy by pissing off potential yes voters, go ahead.
    Personally, I think a more inclusive & co-operative approach would make more sense.
    There is a real danger of the Yes movement spending more time on in- fighting than actually addressing the issues (& opponents that really matter.
    And if you think taking the piss out of climate change is the way forwards for the Independence movement, I suggest that may not be the wisest of notions to attract younger voters who may prefer to remain above water in an independent Scotland.

  193. Croompenstein says:

    So please please please let me, let me, let me
    let me get what I want this time

  194. AhuraMazda says:

    “lifespans are the shortest in Europe and that is mainly due to abject poverty…”

    Actually, Peffers, it simply isn’t. There are much poorer regions in Europe where lifespans are consistently high. Plenty of examples, Southern Italy, The Balkans, Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria, etc., all places where average incomes & earnings are as low and lower than Glasgow.

    I think there are a few factors in Glasgow, including poverty, but also weather, culture, and others.

    People always put the blame for Glasgow’s poor health on others. Ive been listening to that for 40 years; clearly it doesn’t help.

    If you drink and smoke too much, eat crap, and don’t exercise, you’re inevitably going to suffer ill health. Everybody knows this now so you can’t blame others. It’s up to individuals to sort themselves out.

  195. Thepnr says:

    Maybe one day we might put party politics aside with an eye towards the bigger picture. Maybe one day we will work together in order to persuade enough Scots that Independence is the choice to make.

    Maybe one day we will be working together for a common goal.

    Then again, maybe not and Independence then will be a long time coming.

  196. John silver says:

    “Maybe one day we might put party politics aside with an eye towards the bigger picture. Maybe one day we will work together in order to persuade enough Scots that Independence is the choice to make.

    Maybe one day we will be working together for a common goal.

    Then again, maybe not and Independence then will be a long time coming.”

    Great point.
    Well put.

  197. HandandShrimp says:

    It might be wise not to take anything written in the Hootsman too literally. They have hardly been honest brokers in the past with regards the SNP or the Greens.

    If Nicola and Patrick are in agreement on a number of issues then that is hardly a bad thing for the next 5 years.

    The Green manifesto was the most left wing of all those represented in Holyrood. It is not likely that Nicola will go that far but there are matters where sufficient accord could be reached to ensure a peaceful 5 years.

    All the while the Hootsman and others will try to make mischief.

  198. Artyhetty says:


    On the other side of the coin, maybe one day we won’t have to ‘persuade’ so many ‘Scots that independence is the choice to make’, because they will have taken the time away from the great british bbc, we tell you what to think and how to live and how to vote, enough to think for themselves, and maybe they will have looked at how their country has been and is being ripped off, so very frequently and so very successfully by their neighbouring country.

    I remember the unionists ‘project fear’, and how they lied, while the pro independence side worked their butts off to make sure as much info was available, and to make sure that a positive case was put forward, so that those needing to be ‘persuaded’, had it all there, enough info if they bothered to look, to make an informed decision. This also to ensure we worked from a positive and life affirming platform, on which to build a modern, forward looking country, albeit, from the ruins of imperialism and economic and cultural abuse of so many years, and decades.

    I am fed up of the unionists, their negative, selfish, blinkered and ignorant view of their own country, but we are also up against the state run media 100%, so many of those people will remain blinkered. Our two elections, 2015/16, however, are huge indicators, that the winds of change are real. Our young people will be next to make the decision about independence, it’s their future in the balance, not the ones who have had their time.

  199. Thepnr says:


    I couldn’t agree more. Read Handandshrimps wisdom above also, there still at it and it will not change.

    I do believe though that the Yes movement has to be a “broad church” some say it takes all sorts. We are all sorts Green, Yellow, Red, Pink, Black and Blue.

    Nothing disqualifies you from being a supporter of Independence, or to be more accurate it shouldn’t disqualify you. Not all agree.

  200. Breeks says:

    The situation in the Borders is very odd. I like to think I have a good grasp of life in general, but I struggle to reconcile the Tory strength in the Borders.
    There are lots of reasons, some old, some new, why the Borders has a deep set mistrust of the central belt. I get that, there is substance to it, but however you join the dots, it still doesn’t bring me round to voting Tory.
    I have a suspicion there is a healthy community of closet unionism, something distilled from the Glaswegian influx with its right wing and sectarian Protestants. I can’t say it is, because the circles I move in are much more positive towards Independence, but I know there are buses run to Rangers games, and I’ve often heard the Daily Record called the Daily Ranger. It has always struck me as odd for a Borderer to give a shit about football, and Glasgows football at that. But I stress, that’s guesswork, because it’s outside my circle if you follow me.

    But even then, do these shouty Ranger types really identify with Mundell? Really? Unionism kinda figures, but a fart like Mundell? More dots I can’t join together.

    Farmers? Even here, the farmers I know are leaning towards independence, and are very much pro Europe. I say the farmers I know; they are tenant farmers, not land owners, there are plenty fields sporting Tory signs, but I don’t know the extent to which that represents a sizeable body of opinion.

    I don’t rate the local SNP. I know that will raise folks hackles, but I’m only saying it because I think it’s true. For people who want to encourage support and convert the sinners, let’s say they have a strange attitude towards new faces. Call it hubris, or strange sense of martyrdom, I dunno, its cleeky and it’s not a friendly crowd of folks I warm to, and I’m not alone there.

    In strictly local terms, however much I dislike the Tories, I know John Lamont is well thought of. I can’t say yea or nae, but you do know my opinion the SNP standing against him.

    I was delighted and surprised the SNP did well at the General Election, it shows the Borders isn’t a lost cause altogether, but it’s a “main event” type of loyalty which needs motivated to turn out at all on lesser occasions.

    I actually wonder whether the big difference is apathy. There is support for independence, but it is dormant most of the time and resides in a disillusioned and poorly motivated community which doesn’t believe there’s very much point voting at all. Uninspiring candidates, and humdrum policies from the central belt? Hmmmm…. By contrast the Tory vote seems loyal, and actively votes. I don’t detect any surge of support for the Tories, just a reliable core vote.

    That’s where the media comes in. The rest of Scotland has STV. Never mind what it broadcasts, it is Scottish Television, and the Borders doesn’t get it. Go figure. It gets worse. Since Border TV was taken over by ITV Newcastle, you have Geordie/Carlisle news, or the BBC providing your news. That’s it! Period. That news isn’t turning people into Tories, but it certainly is suppressing the issue of Scotland’s independence and pushing it way, way, down folks priority list. It is not an environment where momentum for anything, least of all Scottish independence can sustain itself.

    The resulting cocktail you get from all of the above is death by apathy and indifference.

  201. T.roz says:

    Ahuramazda @ 1:08

    The glasgow effect on health and life expectancy has been researched and it is untrue to claim it is solely down to diet and bad habits. Experiments have been done between groups of similar males in Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester. Despite all the groups eating, drinking smoking and living similar life styles, the glasgow males still have a lower life expectancy, why? Because of the effect of a lack of hope, which is basically the effect of being further away from your government. the further away from London you are then the less chance you feel of being given a fair chance and it is this which eats away at you and is responsible for the Glasgow effect. This for me is one of the biggest reasons for scottish independence.

  202. Brian says:

    The situation in the borders is not unusual, it’s replicated throughout Scotland, from Aberdeenshire, Orkney an Shetland to places like north east fife. It’s immigration, which i believe is a sign that Scotland is doing the right things, so long have we’ve suffered from emigration, we just need to convince people they belong.

  203. Ken500 says:

    ‘All the while the Hootsman will make mischief’

    All the while the (non) Greens will make mischief.

    The majority will not votes SNP/FFA because of the (non) Greens. People will not vote for Independence because of them, their antics and their policies – 60% tax and ‘land grab’. Etc. The majority see them as a small pressure group, who policies would hold Scotland back. They are damaging the SNP/FFA/Independence at every opportunity. Damaged the Indy Ref. The necessary numbers could have put if by them. People are being driver away from Independence because of them. They bring nothing to the table. If people want to vote for FFA/Independence they will do it anyway.

    Many people will not vote for Independencee because they see them as representative of the Independence Movement. They are given blanket coverage which over reaches their support and influence They contaminate the Independence Movement. Some of them only give verbal support to get votes, for themselves. They are just another nuisance. If they are not put in their place they will damage it further.

    They were majority unelected and totally unpopular. They are just damaging the SNP by any association with them – deliberately to get votes. The only radical thing that will bring radical change to Scotland is FFA/Independence and they could/would block it. They are proven charlatans and liars. If people genuinely believe in FFA/Independence. They will vote for it anyway. The majority of voters see them as a small bunch of weidos, including young people. Young people are a small proportion of voters, anyway.

    Scotland needs retirees just as much as they need everyone else. When Scotland was in decline because of Westminster economic policies and lies, many building/houses just lay rotten and ruined. It was people coming into Scotland and others who renovated building/houses and brought them back to life.

    If people want to retire to Scotland they have every right, and maintain and add to the community/society. They should be welcomed just like everyone else. There are annoying people everywhere. There are more good people than bad. They bring their resources just like everyone else. Scotland could do with more people to occupy the land.

    People from Scotland have retired and be made welcome all over the world.

  204. Ken500 says:

    Many of the retirees are people coming back to Scotland who has to leave for work or personal circumstances. They are coming back to retire. They keep many rural community viable. It is often Scottish Planning Laws that prevent necessary house building. The Scottish gov is committed to building 6,000 affordable houses a year. There are 11,000 Private houses being build. As People died or leave – houses come on the market. That can sustain growth and affordable homes.

    Many people are in a home but would like more suitable accommodation. The majority do not give a damn about Council tax reform. It is approx £20 a week to support 15% of Council services. Those who are on low incomes or can’t afford it do not pay it. The majority do not want any more forms or form filling it just gets people goat. People know when they move into accommodation know the cost. They can chose the band level.

    Put up the tier on the bands to raise more from tax for local services. Most people are more annoyed by Councils wasting money on non mandated ridiculous projects and claiming they have
    No money for essential services.

    When Scotland gets full control over tax, FFA/Independence. The council tax could be abolished and more tax could be raised through income tax. If it is enforced properly. Progressive Income tax is more equal and fairer, but at present Scotland doesn’t have the full rights over it’s taxation or spending. HMRC is not fit for purpose and the UK tax Laws are not enforced by Westminster. Illegally. The U.K. Gov supports tax evasion.

  205. Ghillie says:

    O/T Does anyone know how our Yessers are gettin on on their epic road trip round the North Coast??

    The most beautiful and awe inspiring 500 miles you could ever drive!

    The Kyle of Tongue is close to my heart. Folk please drop in to the Brass Tap at the Tongue Hotel for a fine welcome and the Ben Loyal Hotel for the best of local hospitality and excelent local food!

    Drive carefully, the roads are a wee bit of a challenge. Enjoy! You are at the top of the world!!

    And can anyone spare the time to hop on a ferry from Scabster (just before Thurso) to Stromness and beyond? Orkney and Shetland need us very very badly too.

    Safe journey!! May the road the road rise up to meet you (in a good way!) and may the sun shine on your back = )

  206. Ken500 says:

    The NE doesn’t need any more road building/projects at present. The essential AWPR (+ duel carriaging) is being constructed now, Ready in 2017. That will relieve present intolerable congestion and make journeys easier and quicker. There is no essential need for any more major road Projects at present. (austerity). There is more need for road maintenance – potholes – which greatly concerns,

    The majority of questions for any campaigning concerns potholes (some were pointed out) and bus services. The only thing some people are concerned about – local issues. Irrespective how they vote.

    People wait over thirty years for an essential road (thanks SNP) and other (3) non essential plans appear. It like buses – wait for ages for one and another 3 come at once. Or the (non) Green and Unionist NO Party are looking towards the next Council elections, worried about another wipe out. Do not bother with the lies and misinformation. Just vote them out and get in proper accountable administration, that puts the electorate first. Not vested interests and corruption.

    People are being sanctioned and starved (austerity) and money is needed for essential services not more road building at present. Leave it to the future in that area until the present plans pan out. Or put the money where it is most needed for development. UTG (funded) city centre predestrianisation scheme with an exit to the Green/Union Square, will regenerate the surrounding area. Do not shut off Broad Street. There will be more total traffic chaos. If that is possible,

  207. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I see an early battle ground in the new Holyrood parliament is likely to be the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act.
    I said when the Act was introduced, it was bad law, hurriedly implemented; this it has proved to be.
    I do not say offensive behaviour at football is the duopoly of the Bigot Brothers – I have heard some highly-offensive stuff at other Scottish “Derbies”, but, the Bigot Brothers’ followers are the largest group of offenders.
    Football could have offset this law, had there been a willingness within the game to tackle offensive behaviour. For instance, to use perhaps the example most-regularly trotted out: if, every time their followers sang about being: “Up to our knees in Fenian blood”, a certain Scottish team was docked three points – I reckon the club would quickly do what it has failed to do for over 100 years and shut them up, if necessary by wholesale banning of supporters clubs.
    The same thing would doubtless happen if another club was docked three points for every chant in support of a certain proscribed organisation in Ireland.
    But, the will is not there along Hampden Park’s sixth floor “corridor of power”, to touch these two clubs.
    If you doubt this, just have a read at: The Offshore Game website (Google it), and you will see how special the relationship between one of these clubs and the SFA is.
    And that’s another thing – the BUMS, particularly the Lap Top Loyal, will not touch the Offshore Game’s findings with a barge pole.
    Scottish football stinks from top to bottom. Flawed though it was, the OBAF Act was a genuine attept to clean-up one aspect of the general stench.

  208. Ken500 says:

    @ Scotland has such a massing scenery/landscape. Out of this world. They will be enjoying the Epic trip. Thanks guys for the Campaigning, It is Epic. Remember the sun screen?, the Avon for the midges and the Lymes tabs for the animals. Not the Campaigners. Not to get confused with each other. No tent hopping, and remember best behaviour for the Cause. No punch up with the natives. Even though they are foreigners, or seem to have some strange customs (Joke) If they speak double Dutch don’t worry, it will, be in French, Italian, German or Japanese. Or it will be in Gaelic (joke).

    They are wonderful singers and musicians (true), not bad looking ( dodgy – it might make them big headed). Watch out for the sign posts. Pay attention to the wild life and the windy roads when taking in the view. Use the passing places. Have a great time in a great cause. Best wishes to you all. Many who couldn’t make it are jealous, but there is always another time.

  209. ScottieDog says:

    This is well worth a Listen from sir Harry Burns..

  210. Ken500 says:

    @ Amazing – predictive text

    The Offensive Football Act is a bad Act (sectarian) but it works. There were already power to deal with Offensive behaviour – Breach of the Peace etc. But it was never enforced It can criminalise folk for minor offence. They are all shouting or singing offence at each other. The clubs bear some responsibility. No wonder the Terraces are empty. The Clubs do not have a marketable product and a declining audience. 1.5% of sports fans.

    There has never been the political will previously to deal with sectarianism especially in the central belt. It is illegal non equal or fair and should have been stamped out. Sectarianism has been used for Political purposes. Loyalist matches should have been banned by local authorities as they are else pwhere in Scotland. Loyalist marches just ruin the local economy and stop people going into towns. They are a minor section of the population. The money spent Policing could be better spent on jobs and clearing up improving cities. Improving people lives and creating more jobs will give them more purpose and less energy from finding identification through sports but spend time in other interests..

    Shared community facilities and schooling would be advantageous. Some people are brainwashed from the day they are born. The changing of politicians in local councils could bring benefits and some of the problems could be tackled more successfully. 2017 local authority elections.

    The Football Offenses Behaviour Act is a popular Act in the wider society, in light of Clubs inability to act, and it works. No wonder the Terraces are empty and support is falling. Some clubs have nearly gone Ito administration. That will happen more and more. All the top Clubs are up to their eyes in debt, being reconstructed all the time. The owners are taking a loan of the punters and all the (foreign) prima donnas are getting extremely wealthy and dodging taxes. Just more corruption, supported by the Westminster Gov. Large gathering of people, fed up of austerity could cause civil disobedience and unrest. Sport could be used as an excuse and football violence could boil over.

  211. Robert Peffers says:

    @mealer says: 14 May, 2016 at 11:40 pm:

    “I have a need,not desperate nor urgent but certainly to be fulfilled,to go to Wales and thank all those who are with us in our struggle.Can anyone give a pointer as to where a lad like might be welcome in Wales?”

    You will generally find the, “Welsh People”, (as opposed, “The people of Wales”), are generally a welcoming lot for Scots.

    My late wife and I were great ones for exploring Britain in our wee motor-home. The following incident happened on out first visit to Wales.

    We ventured up to, “The Valleys”, (the former Welsh mining areas). At lunchtime we decided to buy our lunch at the next Local pub, inn or hotel as we found it too hot weather to cook in the van.

    We came upon a small village inn with a menu board outside and went in to order lunch. As we entered the bar and a very noticeable silence descended upon the lively buzz of conversation.

    After a pause the buzz struck up again but this time it was mainly in Welsh where before it was mainly English.

    I said to my wife, “Isn’t it nice to hear the people speaking their own language”? We continued to eat our lunch and I enquired from the bar staff if they had any provision for our van to spend at least a night in their car park.

    We were made welcome and told we could use a grassy area behind the inn for free. So we ordered a couple of drinks as we would not be driving further that day.

    As we finished our drinks a local man walked over and, without a word, placed another round on our table and said, “Welcome to Wales”.

    We spent a great week there in the valleys based at that village. The change to Welsh language on our first contact was apparently due to the locals suspecting we were English who the locals thought to act overly superior towards the Welsh.

    Wales is a divided country. There are areas where the population are really mainly of English descent and others where they are mainly of Welsh descent.

  212. Indigo says:

    Thing to bear in mind in the south is that folk down here vote for the person as much as the party. In Galloway it was a safe Tory seat previously held by a well liked MSP contested by an SNP candidate who was very weak on local issues and a Tory candidate who was a well liked local cllr (in some areas of the region) who had contested the Westminster seat and basically didn’t stop campaigning, he grafted for a year at a community level.

    Ruth was down regularly, including on the day of the election, giving very personal support to the candidate. It’s was one of the top target seats for the Tories. By contrast the SNP candidate did not appear very active and there was an assumption locally that she would walk it, possibly because of the SNP success at the general election here. The Tory candidate only just squeaked through by a few hundred votes. My reading of that was that the Tories won on solid campaigning and the SNP candidate lost due to complacency and perhaps arrogance that the national SNP swing would win it for her.

    In Dumfriesshire it was a very different dynamic. This was the safest labour seat in Scotland with a lot of council and NHS staff in the constituency being fed a daily narrative of jobs at risk due to SNP cuts within their workplace. The SNP candidate came from third place and had the highest SNP swing in the south of Scotland but lost out by just over a thousand votes. The labour vote held up better than expected and it split evenly between Tories and SNP, I suspect the votes labour lost split along yes v no lines.

    There’s a lot of anger in this constituency about the SNP leadership, some of it justified, the party has not communicated well with this constituency. All candidates here grafted hard, quite possibly it was the hardest fought seat in Scotland. The Tory candidate had the benefit of the Mundell name recognition, very, very frequent visits from Ruth and his dad who is perceived by some to have influence.

    The SNP candidate had to battle a local internal racism smear that the local Tory press went to town on, and had to counter a national ‘Nicola’ focused campaign that was not well received here. Nicola visited once and it must have been her only visit inscotland where the SNP didn’t bring a photographer or make an announcement so the impact of that visit was minimal and certainly didn’t connect with anyone beyond SNP supporters. The SNP swing in Dumfriesshire shows that the local campaign was solid, the issue was that there were as many ex labour voters switching to the Ruth Davidson unionist party as there were switching to SNP. When you’re coming from 3rd position that dynamic is very difficult to overcome.

    As to why the Tory vote held up here? Well when you feel your local area is being ignored by the party of government you want politicians who understand local issues and who can speak up for you – that was Ruth’s strategy for the south and it worked perfectly. What was the SNP’s strategy for the south? They didn’t have one, they went so far as to imply it was all about Nicola and the local candidates didn’t really matter. They were wrong. The Tories understand the south of Scotland, the SNP leadership do not, that’s why the Tories won. It was not an issue of English retirees at all, many of the hardest working campaigners here are originally from England. The comments here that are disparaging of the south are disappointing to say the least.

  213. Ken500 says:

    Poor internet connection is the reason why Orkney/Shetland and the Borders are out of the loop. They do not know fully the facts and what is going on. They will be annoyed and angry at how they have been duped. There will be a backlash when they find out. There is a case for supplies of the WBB

    A person in the Borders voted SNP/Labour. Although they totally support SNP FFA/Independence and have absolutely no time for the Labour Party. They can’t stand them and they have good internet connection, The word is not getting out.

    The Crazy electoral system is the cause. The electorate are failing to get the proper information and the voting system is failing voters but helping some unscrupulous political Parties . Doing exactly what it was designed to do fooling voters and keeping Westminster control in Scotland, The usual suspects were giving out false information to keep Scotland under Westminster ‘NO’ Party control.

    People were giving the second vote, confusing the electoral system, to Parties they have no time for and who do not have their interests. A complete bunch of rejects (voted out) politicians now have power. It is an absolute disgrace, it brings the electoral system in Scotland into disrepute and angers the majority of the population.

    Voters will get wise and just give their Party both votes, to achieve the result they want. Cynical, deliberate campaigns of misinformation by the Press/MSM, Academics and Political Parties, have broken Purdah. Usually for public money. This has not given the Electorate the majority they expected but a major bunch of unelected rejects. They will get the backlash, when the majority of voters do not get the policies they wanted. It will come. These Parties will be even more unpopular. If that is possible,

  214. Joemcg says:

    I agree with other posters on here regarding the borders. I’ve been here temporarily and the news coverage is diabolical. EBC or ITV borders. Did you know on May 5th that the Scottish elections were barely mentioned on ITV? Minimal Scottish stories always .Wasn’t even in the rundown of top stories that day. Add to the fact that internet connection all over the area is very poor to non existent. 3G? What’s that?! Throw into the mix wealthy landowners and farmers who had huge vote Lamont signs all over the area and an apathetic voting populace it’s no wonder there is a thin blue line.

  215. Grouse Beater says:

    Indigo: “The Tories understand the south of Scotland, the SNP leadership do not”

    That’s nonsense, I’m sorry to say, and self-serving. You’ve just had a bloody railway put back at the taxpayer’s expense so don’t tell me too many were playing cricket on the green to notice. The Borders is an English stronghold and always has been. It has the same attitude as the Welsh to self-determination – they’re too close to London to feel Welsh. So what’s the answer?

    Redraw the border.

  216. heedtracker says:

    Indigo says:
    15 May, 2016 at 9:38 am
    Thing to bear in mind in the south is that folk down here vote for the person as much as the party.

    Despite all that, there is an ocean of clear blue water as they say between SNP policy and toryboy policy. Clearly Borders voters want tory policy and not SNP. What’s the problem there?

  217. heedtracker says:

    HandandShrimp, or you could just have said, don’t criticise Greens because that might change their YES to NO. That does seem to be the way of it though.

  218. HandandShrimp says:

    I don’t really understand the angst about individual locations. If each area agreed and had the same party representing them we would have a one party state.

    England has its Tory shires and Labour and Liberal strongholds. Scotland has its own version of this.

    The SNP nearly unseated Mundell and Carmichael it is hardly as if there is no competition in these areas. It is a closer run thing that the English Tory shires where other parties hardly need bother standing.

    In an independent Scotland we would still have Tory shires…they wold just be our Tory shires that is all.

  219. Albaman says:

    Indigo @ 9:38 a.m.
    I very good, and honest summing up, I hope that the S.N.P. also realise their short comings and give the south of Scotland the attention it deserves, and may I add, the same applies to the northern isles, they may not be areas of great populace, but they are just as important, while the top and bottom of Scotland are predominantly a different political colour, it’s a chink in the S.N.P.s armour,

  220. Ken500 says:

    Wales has an advantage because of it’s proximity to London. People can live in Wales and work in London and they do.Commute.That affects the voting patterns. The perception that they benefit from a Union, London S/E has under 4% unemployment, nearly full, and considerable pro rata (over) investment in Gov/private funding, because of Westminster fiscal policy. Wales is £Billion underfunded. . It votes majority Labour (who have caused many of the problems) because there is no perceived alternative, except for Tory. UIKP members have won in Wales. It will have an affect on the devolved Parliament. They voted for Leanne Woods for FM. Maybe fancied her. (Sexist). Catherine Jerkins is a bit of a bore. All that shirling for the Royalty. Land of hope and Glory routine.

    Castle domination. Prince of Wales. The British establishment stamping its dominance. Charlotte Church campaigns for the left. The Welsh are not so keen on EU membership. A majority are in favour of leaving. Densely pop in some areas? Higher average unemployment?

    Wales has not been in a position where its massive resources and taxes were secretly and illegally taken, The Mines, the major industry, were closed down without alternative investment. Wales could benefit from Oil & Gas on the West (without an alternative). The Irish Sea.

    Pity they refused the Cardiff Opera House design twice. It would have really put them on the map. They didn’t want luvies from London telling them what to do.

    What is the voting system in the Welsh Parliament? That would have a bearing on the result. Has Westminster banned wind turbines/renewables or not supported them in Wales. They are draining water out of Wales for supplies in England. It has a warmer climate than parts of Scotland.

  221. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert Kerr says: 14 May, 2016 at 11:53 pm:

    “O/T sorry but I have partaken of EBC Propaganda in the form of “A very British Map The Ordnance Survey Story” recorded earlier.

    Very interesting in the subtle propaganda and belittling of Scots and Scotland.”

    There is absolutely nothing subtle about the Ordinance Survey, Robert.

    Their entire original raison d’être of, “The Ordinance Survey”, was to map out, (mainly the Highlands), for the purpose of using the English army to subjugate, (mainly the Highland), people of Scotland.

    Yon General Roy was just one other despicable, “Scots But”. These, “Scots Buts”, have been instrumental in the London overlordship of Scotland since ever there was an Anglo-Saxon presence in what was to become their country of, “Angle Land”, (England).

    That, “Ordinance survey mapping”, that General Roy authored was originally designed to make it easier for the Redcoats to navigate the Highlands of Scotland and was instigated by Butcher Cumberland due to the so called, “Jacobite Rebellions”.

    How could these be rebellions when the still independent English government had deposed their monarchy, (that they shared with a still independent Scotland)?

    As the two were still independent kingdoms a change of English Monarchy to King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange could not legally be enforced upon the still independent Scots. You cannot rebel against a monarchy not your own.

    To this day the Westminster Establishment merely assumes they hold total sovereignty over Scotland. Yet it is recorded, in the pre-union Hansard, that under English law, “That cnce becoming sovereign a sovereign cannot legally renounce their sovereignty. However, under Scottish law, even today, the Monarchy is NOT sovereign under Scots law. It is enshrined under Scots law, (ratified in 1320), that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign and as such, under English/UK law cannot legally give up their sovereignty.

    That was the very reason the English Government of 1688, (Glorious Revolution), did NOT just do away with the English Monarchy.

    Instead they forced King Billy & Queen Mary to just delegate their sovereignty to the parliament of England.

    They either accepted those terms or were not given the crown. Thus sidestepping the republicanisation of England and today the monarchy are still legally the owners of what is, after all, “Her Majesty’s Government”; Her Majesty’s Treasury, and importantly it is the Royal Navy, Royal Air Force and The Soldiers of the Queen.

  222. gerry parker says:

    Divide and rule.
    I said at the time of the demise of the old club and the start of the new one, while we had one team in the bottom division and the other in the top sectarianism should have been dealt with.

    A deduction of points for any infringement should have been ruthlessly applied.

    It might have meant that one team never did make it to the top, and the other team never did make it off the bottom due to the behaviour of their respective fans, but a few more years of them being separated would have done the image of the game some good.

    Probably wouldn’t have gone down well with the money men though, got to keep them happy at all costs.

  223. heedtracker says:

    In an independent Scotland we would still have Tory shires…they wold just be our Tory shires that is all.

    There are virtually no Scottish shires though, in FPTP Westminster. Just the one with a fringe comedian like Fluffie, is too many:D

    Moreningside banker’s boy Ian Murray just looks silly next Corbyn at PMQ’s and ofcourse Carbuncle’s crew are like the Cosa Nostra in Sicily, if you can get away with it, you da man, says Orkney.

    The only thing going on in Scotland is independence. Until that happens, we wont really know who and where the tory shires are in our country.

  224. Grouse Beater says:

    Albaman: “I hope that the S.N.P. also realise their short comings and give the south of Scotland the attention it deserves,

    Why not just post “What have the Romans ever done for us?”

    It’s as if the Tories approved reinstatement of a Borders railway, laid the money aside, but the SNP squandered it on Glasgow rallies.

    Ask people in the Borders if they’d prefer fee paying primary and secondary schools, no school meals, no EU grants for farmers topped up by the Scottish government, doubling of taxes to pay for Trident and the storage of nuclear waste in their hills, paying for prescriptions, doctor charging for appointments, no grant assistance to ailing textile colleges and design centres, and so on, and so forth.

    Or get a grip and stop spreading bollocks.

  225. Ken500 says:

    The Borderers can easily have a selection of Channels. They have Sky? and the towns have Internet. They are not much bothered to turn it over. They could access other regional channels. They do spend time in Edinburgh/Glasgow and other towns. The majority? Work in them, and communicate with friends relations all over Scotland. Part rural landscape. Nice countryside. Like many regions they are unaware of the massive Oil & Gas sector unless they work in it. Even folk in Glasgow/Edinburgh do not realise the finances of Scotland and the way they are covered Barnett. Including well educated people, They are oblivious.

    One of largest LandownerEstates supports SNP and Independence. The rural areas are maybe just traditional There is a Tory tradition from the most unlikely people, especially as they get older. Some of the folk are well heeled. There are Hotel/housing developments. Peebles Hydro Cardrona., Walter Scott’s house. On average the housing is not too expensive, Tourism, farming. Unemployment levels?

  226. cearc says:


    I went over to Clachtoll last night. Lots of people, big turnout, having lots of fun.

    Free bar, bonfire on the beach etc.

    Many, pretty knackered after such a long drive.

  227. Ken500 says:

    @ Grouse beater

    Exactly. Another good one.

    Your article about the poem. ‘White Rose’ was just breathtaking. It made folk want to greet. Brought a tear to the een.

    The folk voting could just be misunderstanding the voting system, and giving a second vote to another Party with out realising the significance of it. Virtually cancelling out their vote. Being confused by too much second choice,

    One thing the SNP has tried to do is spread development all over Scotland where it is needed and fairly. Do projects the most urgent first. Orkney/Shetland has an Oil fund. They conserve in austerity. It will concentrate some minds as the Oil companies start to bypass Sullom Voe terminal because it saves money. The fees are lost. They will realise the extent of UK control of Oil & Gas re high taxes, but they already should know that.

    Because of the deliberate mininformation, Scotland came close to having a minority Tory Gov backed up by Labour/Unionists with Ruth Davidson for FM. Some people don’t realise that could have come close because of (non) Green being manipulated. A total disaster for Scotland. What would have been peoples’reaction to that?

  228. Grouse Beater says:

    Your tasty starter, while I compose some invective about Ruthie on a water buffalo:

  229. Grouse Beater says:

    A remark that came from nowhere – but welcome. Many thanks.

    Your article about the poem. ‘White Rose’ is just breathtaking. It made folk want to greet. Brought a tear to the een.”

  230. Indigo says:

    @grousebeater “You’ve just had a bloody railway put back at the taxpayer’s expense so don’t tell me too many were playing cricket on the green to notice. ”

    You’ve? That’s one of the issues, the Borders is in the south of Scotland, but the south of Scotland is not the Borders.

    From my perspective, living in the majority bit of the south that is NOT the Borders, the Borders railway looks like a service primarily for Edinburgh commuters, but then I wouldn’t really know seeing as i mainly hear the news from the north east and Cumbria, being one of those odd folk who choose not to have sky tv.

    Btw, did you hear about the railway debacle in the wider (not borders) south of Scotland earlier this year?

    Not to worry though, it’s a very common mistake, in fact getting the geographic name of the different bits of the south of Scotland wrong is something that the scottish government, the SNP and whoever is doing Nicola’s email shots have all done recently. For those who don’t understand how that grates try calling Shetland Orkney.

    I wonder what Oliver Mundell’s plan to improve Dumfriesshire transport through a Carlisle city region deal will do to this area. Has that been mentioned on the Scottish news? I think it’s a clever strategic move from a constitutional point of view for the Tories – it absolutely won’t help in making this area feel more connected with the rest of Scotland, but it will shore up and reinforce that no vote and keep the south blue.

    @heedtracker – what makes you think anyone was voting for Tory policies? They were voting for unionism, a strong opposition and local representation

  231. Dr Jim says:

    I just wish everybody would stop disagreeing with each other and agree with me

  232. Ken500 says:

    Migration is not an issue in the Borders or Orkney/Shetland. Many them have migrated from other areas – down south and elsewhere. They are migrants. No one in Scotland voted UKIP. A few hundred or thousand Scotland is pro EU. Among voters it is considered to be 50% higher (pro rata). 42% YES 21% No. In Scotland no one should take the Polls for granted. They are manipulated for political purposes.

  233. HandandShrimp says:

    I just wish everybody would stop disagreeing with each other and agree with me

    Well I have made a start, I am agreeing with me.


  234. heedtracker says:

    @heedtracker – what makes you think anyone was voting for Tory policies? They were voting for unionism, a strong opposition and local representation

    Or, toryboy policy. And why not

    Its democracy in UKOK dysfunction. If youre from Aberdeen you know all about assorted unionist stuff, like this for example.

    “Dr Stuart Waiton, senior sociology lecturer at Abertay University and author of Snob’s Law, a book on the OBFA, told the Sunday Herald it was “arguably the most authoritarian piece of legislation in modern times in Britain. That you can go to prison for five years for being offensive at a football match is insane.”

    Snobs’s Law’s worth a skim and scan. Basically, yes, working class chaps can be a bit alarming to middle class Scotland but so what.

    BBC Scotland in particular like this kind of stuff. They routinely sneak out documentaries glorifying extreme football fan street violence too. Why though, is just another teamGB mystery but its sad to see the Green’s also voting against it.

  235. Grouse Beater says:

    Indigo: “That’s one of the issues, the Borders is in the south of Scotland, but the south of Scotland is not the Borders.”

    Christ, I’m getting a geography lesson now. I’ve heard of splitting hairs, infinitives even, parsing too, but not hills and glens.

    Soon as he tosses out the insult, ‘Indigo’ then reminds me I include Dumfriesshire in my remarks which he does too just to prove his credentials are better than mine. I’ve visited the place to film ‘tourist’ farms where you get to shear sheep, feed pigs, and help put up fences for a days pleasant educational exertion. It’s a great area, but like Norfolk people tend to drive past on their way to other places.

    And to add insult to injury he has the temerity to suggest the Borders railway ‘looks’ like a convenience for Edinburgh travellers.

    Of course he makes no acknowledgement of all the benefits he takes bestowed on the area by a hard-pressed SNP administration.

    No sir. It wouldn’t do to play fair.

    How many Blue Meanies hang out in the border regions?

    Oh, and dear Indigo please devote another six inches of your patronsing myopia to tell us how soon we can expect Westminster and its personal treasury to upgrade the A1 to a bloody motorway! It’s on our border too as your route map will tell you. We’ve only been waiting fifty fucking years!

  236. Dr Jim says:

    I see the wee Green man has joined with all other parties against the government on the offences at football act according to BBC

    I certainly hope the FM puts it to the vote and makes them vote on it so that should the government lose, everybody in the country will know why and who

    Maybe those who oppose it and would vote it down will explain to to the vast majority of Scotswomen who actually support it
    No surrender from Ruth there, I wonder what she offered Patrick for that

  237. AhuraMazda says:

    ScottieDog, thanks for that. Very interesting. Everyone that visits this website should listen to that interview and so here it is again for those who may have missed it:

    Social problems such as those described in that interview which focuses on Glasgow look intractable and impossible to remedy. When you factor in the stress levels stuff, gene switches, a host of health issues that go hand in hand, mortality rates etc., it’s easy to get pessimistic.

    The interview also confirmed what I have witnessed, alcohol consumption and associated problems have risen In the last 20 years. There’s a view that all this stuff is just Glasgow, traditional, it’s what it has always been like here, but that isn’t true — these problems have grown over the last 2 decades and continue to grow.

    It’s out of control and it looks like well-meaning people have struggled and failed to arrive at realisable solutions.

    For me it underlines the point that independence is a necessity, not an option.

    I’m undoubtedly a simplistic person but I think a systems analysis approach is the best way forward. Rather than focus on the multitude of problems, in systems analysis it makes sense to work backwards from the solution you want to acheive. My assumption is that we want Glasgow to be a place with a healthy population who are employed and engaged much like say Strasbourg.

    That’s acheivable so what’s the best and quickest way to get there? As I understand it, the best way would be to generate economic growth, with real jobs, a diverse economy, and it needs to be more than just telesales type junk — Scottish Enterprise solutions have failed Glasgow badly and it should be closed down.

    With investments in housing, infrastructure like communications, transport, rail links, and leisure industry stuff, I can easily imagine Glasgow’s wounds healing. One of the most disgraceful stand-out symptoms of Glasgow’s demise is the lack of activity on the River Clyde. And yet the Clyde should be a gateway to the west coast and is a potentially huge strategic asset.

    So, reasons to be down and we definitely need to analyse the problems with honesty and open-mindedness. But lots of room for improvement and solutions too which probably hinge on independence, given the finances.

  238. Robert Peffers says:

    @John Silver says: 15 May, 2016 at 1:04 am:

    “Great, Let’s add the Greens to our list of enemies – that’s really going to help the Indy cause!”

    Oh! Get real, John. There is all the difference in the World between classing a different political party as an enemy and clearly seeing the situation for what it actually is. That is – If the various political parties were all, as you seem to infer, to be pallsy-wallsy with each other there would be no requirement for different parties.

    The reason there is different parties is to cater for different views. Thus all other parties than the one you favour will have differing policies than those you espouse. That does not equate to them being bitter enemies. Neither does it require them all to cosy-up together.

    “If you guys think we can win Indy by pissing off potential yes voters, go ahead.”

    I’ll turn that on its head for you, John. If the Greens think it will increase green policies to piss off the SNP and Scottish Government then they can go ahead.

    “Personally, I think a more inclusive & co-operative approach would make more sense.”

    Which is exactly what Nicola Sturgeon said – there will be no formal coalition with the Greens, or anyone else, in the Scottish Government. The SNP Scottish Governments Majority, (note: not overall majority), will ensure that, with reasonable co-operation and persuasion, the SG will manage just fine. They do, you may note, have form in such methods.

    “There is a real danger of the Yes movement spending more time on in – fighting than actually addressing the issues (& opponents that really matter).”

    Can I take it that will be in your not so humble opinion too then, John?

    And if you think taking the piss out of climate change is the way forwards for the Independence movement, I suggest that may not be the wisest of notions to attract younger voters who may prefer to remain above water in an independent Scotland.

    Yet again your not so humble opinion seems to dominate your assessment of the Green policies of both the Greens and the Scottish Government.

    In the first place it is generally acknowledged that the SNP SG is significantly the most green government in, (at least), Europe. Yet there are, on this very thread, Patrick Harvey quotations that show he has, (wrongly), opposed some of the SG’s more sane Green initiatives.

    Yet Scotland’s wind powered renewables alone provided the bulk of Scotland’s domestic requirements for electricity throughout the past year. Those statistics did not take account of Hydro, (both natural storage and pumped storage), nor the other renewable methods.

    In the case of pumped Hydro-storage the pumping is powered by off-peak wind power used to pump water up-hill. The alternative was what Harvey focused upon – switching off the wind turbines in off-peak periods as the easiest method of balancing the load on the grid. The SG policy was that instead of just reducing the load by paying the owners to turn of the wind turbines they were kept running to power the pimping of water uphill.

    There is also wave-motion, tidal flow, Sea-currents and various other initiatives that have proven the SG’s commitment to renewable Green energy is the correct one and the Green Party’s often rigid objections were, to say the least, less correct.

    If you fondly imagine that allowing a tiny minority political part to unduly influence your majority, (note not overall majority), the real danger is that you, (to use your own phrase)piss-off a great deal more voters by allowing the minority party too much say than you are in danger of pissing off a few in the minority party.

    In any case my experience of pandering to a minority party in a coalition is that it destroys the minority party who tend to claim their influence was far greater than it actually was.

    See how the last Tory/LibDem coalition worked out for the LibDems and the Tories. The LibDems were reduced to a rump while the Tories gained an overall majority.

    The moral is that a non-overall majority is far, far more acceptable to the voters as is a formal coalition and the fact that political parties voluntarily working together is a safer and more acceptable method for both potential coalition partners.

  239. heedtracker says:

    Further right you go, the more UKOK tory exciting it gets.

    Kenny Farquharson ?@KennyFarq 13m13 minutes ago
    Kenny Farquharson Retweeted Tom Gordon
    Very good news indeed. A defeat for illiberal SNP laws. Now for the “named person” legislation.

  240. Valerie says:

    Joanna Cherry playing a blinder again, against the Brewster and lord Forsyth.

  241. The Offensive Behaviour legislation, no matter how clumsy, is very popular with the public. That is all.

    It is very easy to paint any attempt to remove it as playing crass politics for cheap political gain.

    Lets wait and see what transpires. Why would anyone believe anything Tom Gordon says?

  242. HandandShrimp says:

    The Offensive Behaviour act has a sunset clause so if the will of Holyrood is to let it lapse it would be easy to do.

    People tend to forget that it was the papers that were screaming for action when nail bombs and bullets were sent to Neil Lennon, which is partly why we have legislation. However, I am inclined to the view that the SFA should just dock 3 points if fans sing sectarian songs rather than have the police chase after people. If clubs were facing relegation because of persistent crowd trouble then the problem would disappear down the leagues pretty quickly to the point where they would have no one to sing to.

  243. Dr Jim says:

    Tory and Labour supporters are hilarious aren’t they
    Not a peep out of them about anything that their shit choices of governments did wrong or didn’t do in the past or even wont do now

    But as soon as the SNP got a teeny weeny bit of power the bile comes spewing out about what the SNP haven’t done for them while ignoring completely what they actually have done for them, and it doesn’t matter what you say it always ends up the same “We hate the SNP” Na Na Na Na moan gripe jealous bitter noises
    “It’s the wrong kind of road” “It’s the wrong kind of railway” “It’s the wrong kind of hospital” School, Health Centre or it’s in the wrong place

    It’s amazing the amount of things the SNP have done wrong in the shortest period of time for an amazing amount of people to be able to complain about, when previously nobody ever complained did they because everything was perfect and good and shiny and the world was a happier place where we all sung war songs together and basked in the warm summer days lying in the grass meadows
    watching the butterflies while in the distance the lowing of cattle was the only sound to break the blissful stillness of our Nations peace

    God bless the Union, the Telegraph and the Daily Mail

  244. carjamtic says:

    There is a flow and return pipe,running between London and Scotland,the circulating pump is located in London and is under Westminster control.

    The unit of flow,call it,money,energy,taxes,even mojo,call it what you will…….flows from Scotland to London and back,however there is a bypass pipe,(let’s say it’s located at the border),between the flow and return pipes.

    London,also controls the bypass pipe,in controlling this pipe,it can decide to bypass Scotland and redirect some of the flow back down south (the bypass pipe probably has more internal,as yet hidden bypass pipes).

    The SG can only ‘balance’ / redistribute the the flow within Scotland,but if there is insufficient flow in the first place,we all suffer,not just particular areas.

    This is why Independance is important… maintain the flow and return balance,to cut off London’s ‘take’,to increase the flow to all parts of Scotland equally and fairly.

    An Independant Scotland will do away with this bypass pipe (s) and operate the circulating pump more efficiently…….,the amount of the London ‘take’ percentage is always disputed,in truth if it was ‘only’ say 5%…..over time,even that is massive,many experts claim, it’s more,a lot more.

    London tries to convince us we receive more than we give, produces,complex formulae to prove it and employs the ‘non biased’ BBC/MSM to assist the with the argument,….(the ‘haves’ explain to the ‘have nots’ why the status quo is good)………..does it hurt ?……only when I laugh.



  245. heedtracker says:

    However, I am inclined to the view that the SFA should just dock 3 points if fans sing sectarian songs rather than have the police chase after people”

    But how do you judge and jury it though? That’s been the fundamental problem for cops policing them.

    If you stand in the street and sing about how you’re going to kill people in any other western country, youre probably going to get nicked and or sectioned.

    In loony tunes UKOK Scotland, BBC will put you in a documentary and you can boast about how you and youre chums beat the living shit out of someone after the match.

  246. Dr Jim says:

    @Robert Peffers 11.40am

    That needed saying

  247. Fred says:

    Glasgow’s problems are as much down to massive social engineering as the poverty caused by post-war de-industrialisation. The city was prevented from extending its boundaries to accommodate natural growth so the surrounding counties obliged by the building of well-heeled suburbs up against the Glasgow boundary & populated by Glasgow folk who work in the city. These now completely encircle the Glasgow & this connurbation contains both Scotland’s longest & shortest lived people, Milngavie & Bearsden and Maryhill & Shettleston.

    The city’s problems have been compounded by the building of new towns which attracted many of Glasgow’s youngest & fittest creating the present political doughnut & distorting the figures further, so comparing Glasgow with other apparently similar cities is not comparing like with like. Creaming off the better-off has done its work, no need to wonder further.

  248. ronnie anderson says:

    Guess where am ur I haven’t been on line for a couple of days I was lost but ah wee chooky hen wummin found me & Mitch at ah beach at Clachtoll. We are now sitting in her wee Heiland Hame partaking of a nice lunch, home baked Rasberry cakes & a lovely & Quiche cearc, a welcome respite from NC 500.

    Eat your hearts out you,s lot but there’s alway a welcome in the Wings Fraternity. Thanks cearc

  249. Ken500 says:

    Borders (family and friends) Great people support borders traditions. Beltane Day etc.. Hardworking successful, working class.. Have experience unemployment etc. Compassionate Left of centre views. politically/socially/economically. Aware. No time for Thatcher. Relatives in London, America/Australia. Support all SNP policies. Admire Nicola – think she is doing a good job. know about the North/South divide. Family tradition – They vote Tory. The most unlikely Tory voters ever.

    They don’t support the Royals or Unionism despise or couldn’t care less. Traditional – want things to stay the same or improve. One elderly uses the ‘B’ word about a relation, they love and admire. Not politically correct. Some have moved through Labour to SNP and have lived in other Cities/towns, but did not realise the significance of the 2nd., Voted SNP/Labour. (Some more ardent do) They support SNP/FFA/Independence. They do not like Labour/Dugdale make jokes and fun. They thought it some kind of second choice. Didn’t realise to vote SNP x 2n

    They all support Independence. Great People. Good crak and amusement.

    An inter city Carlise deal for rail services. Aye right. Lots like folk are duped again. That will never happen. The Funding arrangements do not work like that. Scotland gets its funding. Carlise comes from London, it would only happen with join funding arrangements. That is not how Barnett works. Scotland would not be allowed to benefit (with money) from funding from Carlise. It is allocated from the Carlise area only. It’s a lie. That would be like saying London Mayor could allocate their funds to Aberdeen. It would be illegal. It the Borders are falling for that they are being duped. More Tory lies.

    They would be better voting SNP so Scotland would get control it’s spending. So Westminster is not spending Scottish taxpayer money repaying loans that Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. HS2 or Hinkley Point – the Defict. £Billion on Trident/illegal wars, £1Billion could be better spent with a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. £3Billion? on tax evasion. Lost £4Billion on Westminster Oil tax 60/80% tax. = Approx £10Billion could be better spent including in the Borders.

    The Borders are being duped by two arch manipulators. Tory lies. One man and his son. The Borders needs Wings, the WBB. Folk are being taken for fools, when they realise it thry will be extremely angry. The Carlise inter city deal connection is never going to happen. It would be illegal the only way would be for the Scottish Gov to get involved. Carlise. it is too far down for funding. it is never going to happen. If Carlise gets funding the Borders could benefit. They do not have to vote Tory/Unionism for that.

    They have voted to get Tory policies in Holyrood/Westminster that could cut their bus passes, cut NHS, cut welfare benefits, education, means test prescriptions, cut local authority spending, (affecting the Borders services), increased tax for Trident, the vulnerable being sanctioned and starved, Trident/illegal wars. Their full CAP entitlement being withheld and going to wealthier farmers in the rest of the UK.

    The Borderers have been sold a pig in a poke by two arch, greedy, lying troughing pigs that do not have their interests or Scotland’s interest at heart. They have voted against their own interest. Conned. Voted against more investment for their area, instead of their taxes going South to pay for Carlise’s inter- city deal. When they realise they will be fuming.

  250. DerekM says:

    Jeez you would think the way some go on that we smashed the red tories years ago and that Scotland is free,newsflash we are still in that fight.

    Hate to burst your bubble but you do not have the population numbers in the borders to win the government of Scotland that can only be done by winning the cities of Scotland.

    Though i did expect the blue tories to build their last line of defence across the borders,and it would not surprise me in the least to find out they rigged those seats well they do have form at being cheating lying bastards.

    Time we took a good hard look at everthing the tories spent in these areas.

    If they can do it in England then they can do it in Scotland full on scrutiny is what is needed and not next year now!

  251. Macart says:

    @ronnie anderson

    Sounds brilliant Ron. 🙂

    A bonny day here too and after a quick scan, I think I’ll away out and enjoy the sun.

  252. Ken500 says:

    @ Ronnie Anderson

    Stop it – making folk jealous. In the east coast. The life of Riley. { ; > ) } It’s a great laugh. Good campaign. There will be photos.

    It’s a great tourist advert. Everyone will be booking up or rushing over.

    Where you searching for an connection? Got your Avon. Midges come out later in July/Augsust. Had a few flights from them. Smoke then out.

    The Highlands needs a few Ronnie Anderson’s Huts. A new career. Highlands tour guide.

  253. call me dave says:

    Team hugs all round for the non SNP MSPs as they have decided to challenge the The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act 2012 (OBFA).

    It could have been anything… any hostage to fortune would have done for them. Flex the muscles and move over SNP, but early days and a long time to go.

    SNP issues ‘Alternative Queen’s speech’ to prove party is real opposition in Westminster

    PS: Getting near the end now at last.

    Glasgow Labour councillor Yvonne Kucuk charged amid embezzlement probe.

  254. Breeks says:

    Grouse Beater, ordinarily I like your posts, but when it comes to the Borders, you sound like you’ve never actually been here. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

    In some ways, the way Westminster treats Scotland is just like the way Scotland treats the Borders. You expect us to dance for joy because Galashiels has a rail link, irrespective of the fact it’s a white elephant from a Borders perspective actually built for Edinburgh commuters and dressed up as blessing from on high. If you want to impress Borderers, why not actually listen to them and upgrade the main fecking road through the Borders so vehicles can actually get to work on time without playing the Congo for 30 miles? No. You’re getting a rump of a railway. Shut up you ungrateful sods, and be happy with what you get. Hmmm, now where have I heard that before?

    To repeat an earlier point I made too… Why is emphasis of a railway? Why not focus some investment in the Borders that allows people to work in the Borders and not have to travel to Edinburgh? But then of course, that’s investment you will put in the hands of Scottish Enterprise, and that’s the last anybody in the Borders outside of Galashiels will hear of it.

    Here’s a thought… Why doesn’t the Scottish government make Scottish Enterprise funding performance related? Better yet, get rid of it altogether. Weren’t we promised a bonfire of the quangos? I’d put Scottish Enterprise as the Guy to be burned at the top. But since the Scottish Government won’t touch corruption and nepotism with a barge pole, why not demand results? Most areas in the Borders are in all out commercial retreat. Hardly a glowing endorsement for the Midas touch of Scottish Enterprise.

    I’m curious too, I relate how the Borders region doesn’t get STV, just BBC and ITV Newcastle, and I’m told the Borders is no different from the rest of Scotland. Sigh!

    Ever wonder you are just speaking to a brick wall? Welcome to the Borders.

  255. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Ken 500
    @ Macart

    Another nite at Clacktoll & then me & Mitch will head down the road,but we,re enjoying the convo with cearc before wee head back to camp site anybody any spare diezel ( red no object) Durness fillup has UKOK in his window I dont want to see him profit from Yessers.

  256. gus1940 says:

    Coming up for a fortnight since the election and the media are still, including a few minutes ago on Sunday Politics, banging on about The SNP leaking votes and the alleged triumph of the Ruthsfuhrer. The suggestion being that the SNP’s popularity is in the process of bursting.

    Can we ever expect our wonderful unbiased media to admit that the failure of The SNP to win another absolute majority had little to do with the policies put forward by all or any of the parties but everything to do with yet another propaganda triumph for the forces of evil in the media and the dark forces behind them.

    The reason was a beautifully coordinated campaign over months whereby we were blitzed with forecasts that the election would be a walkover for The SNP together with a lesser campaign to give the second vote to The Greens or upstarts like RISE who never even registered in any opinion poll.

    The reason this campaign succeeded was that it lulled potential SNP voters into complacency so that many decided that a win was a done deal so why bother voting if my vote isn’t needed.

    Yes folks we have been conned again by the media.

  257. Robert Peffers says:

    @John silver says: 15 May, 2016 at 1:53 am

    @@Thepnr says: “Maybe one day we might put party politics aside with an eye towards the bigger picture.

    Sigh! And maybe one day certain people will realise that there is a very good reason for there being different political parties.

    The main one is to cater for different political views. In such circumstance the natural order is for these differing views to cause each party to oppose each other party.

    When, for purely political gain of power, they formally enter into coalition, (and also in most cases when they informally gang up against a ruling body), one of the parties will naturally end up worse off in the eyes of their erstwhile supporters.

    Witness the decline in LibDem support after coalition with the Tories and the cataclysmic decline in Scottish Labour support after joining in support for the Tory/LibDem Unionist movement.

    Holding some different policies does not equate with bitter enmity but entering into formal agreements against another party does.

    Truth is, for example, I oppose most Unionist Establishment policies and hence Unionist parties. I see them as enemies of Scotland.

    I also oppose certain policies of the Greens, Solidarity and Rise but do not view them as enemies. Fact is if I agreed with more of any of the latter parties policies I would be supporting them instead of the SNP.

    In truth I do not agree 100% with everything the SNP subscribes to either but that is party policy for you. No one will agree with everything their party does or says but if they are closest to your ideals then you support them. It doesn’t equate to them being your enemy.

    Are you both really attempting to say that the Greens will deliberately compromise their own ideals in order just to spite the SNP and thus compromise their own ideals?#

    The sane thing is for the SG to NOT enter into formal coalition with any other party but rely upon them voting in line with what own policies that they do actually share with the SG.

    That way the SG as a whole satisfy the majority of the Scottish electorate. I may be wrong, it has been known, but I contend the main reason the Scottish Branches of three unionist parties have lost their traditional support in Scotland is because they ignored their own political principles and just voted against anything, whatsoever, the SNP proposed or did.

    I’m thinking their opposition to, for example, the football offensive behaviour regulations, the drip drip, drip campaigns against the Scottish Police, Fire Services, Education and SNHS.

    Not only were they campaigning against services that they, as the local authorities, controlled but these services in Scotland have all outperformed their counterparts in the other UK regions.

    Think about it – The Unionist Establishment Labour Party branch in Scotland, for example, were complaining about the shortage of nurses in the SNHS. Yet the Labour Party were the main numbers of members in almost every Local Authority Health Board and Hospital Board in Scotland and it is those local health boards that actually employ Health board staff.

  258. Ken500 says:

    Any Borders benefit through a Carlise City deal would happen anyway. You don”t have to vote Tory/Unionists, for that it is entirely separate. Carlise city Funding can’t go to the Borders. It would be illegal. Scotland gets it’s funding, England gets it’s funding. That’s like the London Mayor allocating london funds to Aberdeen. It would be illegal.

    The Borderers are being lied to, by too arch manipulators, father and son. The are being sold a pig in a poke.

    Voting Tory is voting for mean testing Prescription, cuts in public funding (affecting local services) austerity, cuts in social care, cuts to NHS, cuts in welfare payments. Cuts in education services. Not getting their full CAP payments which are going to wealthier farmers in the rest of the UK.

    £1Billion for Trident/illegal wars. £Billions which could be better spent, £3Billion? -tax evasion, lost £4Billion of revenues because of Osbourne 60/80% tax on the Oil sector, paying £4Billion of loan repayments on money Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend (to fund Carlise’s inter City deal) . = £10Billion which could be better spent, including in the Borders.

    The Borderers are voting Tory against their best interests. They are being conned. When they realise there will be a backlast. They can be thrawn. They need Wings and a distribution of WBB.

  259. TeddySue says:

    What rips my knitting is the fact the SNP refused to mention independence in their manifesto but now AFTER the election they say independence is their major issue. They lost YES voters by explicitly excluding independence from their election manifesto. A lot of folk I talk to feel let down and used by the SNP leadership.

  260. Dr Jim says:

    I’m once again puzzled, are there some folk blaming the SNP for not getting some Broadcasting services, over which they have no control, but are attempting to wrest some control from the folk who weren’t complained about before

    All the folk yelping about their “Victory” over the SNP over the football thing are they putting forward an alternative proposal or are we going back to singing up to our necks in Fenian blood or kill all the Proddies songs again like the good old days and no interference with all the friendly murderous banter

    This is the perfect answer to all those who said “Ooh we need a strong opposition in Holyrood” “We’ll make it bolder” “Hold the government to account” “Coalition’s a good thing” “Rainbow Parliament”

    Mibbees Patrick’ll lead aff the singin behind Ruth wae her Sash blowin in the breeze “FREE”

    See aw that! See yer Arse!

  261. HandandShrimp says:


    Aye but if The SNP had got two seats more and secured a majority the same people would be bitching like hell about a one party state.

    We can’t win with these people because they are quite simply agin us.

    However, for the next 4 years in Westminster and the next 5 years in Holyrood the SNP are the only show in town as far as Scottish politics is concerned. They will soon be bitching about the SNP driving through legislation and ignoring Ruthie Tank Commander’s *overwhelming mandate*

    * = vicious sarcasm tags.

  262. Onwards says:

    “I am inclined to the view that the SFA should just dock 3 points if fans sing sectarian songs rather than have the police chase after people. If clubs were facing relegation because of persistent crowd trouble then the problem would disappear down the leagues pretty quickly to the point where they would have no one to sing to.”

    Agree with this. The law has good intentions but the SNP gets far too much flak for it. Let the clubs police themselves when they start getting fines and bans from Europe.

    Politically, It may be better for the SNP to take the initiative and scrap it rather than having the opposition parties vote it down and see Ruth Davidson take all the ‘credit’.

  263. Artyhetty says:

    Re; Breeks@1.07

    We really like the borders and took the train recently, a bit expensive if you were commuting, so it’s a shame that it might not be as useful as intended.

    How welcoming is the borders, in terms of affordable housing, jobs etc. It always seems to me to be good for mostly the well off, and tourists, but a difficult place to settle.

    How much of the borders is privately owned? Perhaps like Northumberland, there is little investment in housing, infrastructure etc, or incentive for people to settle, in fact it is positively discouraged. Much of it is privately owned, ie, the duke of n’berland, and only the very well off can afford to live there. It is under populated and those that are not well off mostly have to leave in order to find homes and jobs.

    Is the borders like Northumberland in that sense?

  264. Thepnr says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Isn’t Independence the main goal of people that frequent this site?

    Are the policies of individual parties more important than gaining a majority Yes vote? I say they are not, let’s put it this way the one thing that will get Yes over the line is when the people of Scotland of many political views believe the time is right.

    Petty bickering and point scoring between supporters of different parties will not help. Do you believe that the Yes vote would have gotten to 45% if the Yes campaign was under the sole ownership of one party?

    What about the dozens of groups that were knocking on doors, delivering leaflets with a broader outlook, Labour for Independence, Women for Independence, RIC, Business for Scotland, etc. None of those groups were political parties, just Yes supporters and campaigners.

    The great diversity of the Yes campaign is what got us so close and the real worry for me is that this broad support has already fragmented.

    So I’ll say again, let’s put party politics aside until we gain Independence, it’s right that different parties have different views and policies. Independence though is more important than any one policy.

  265. yesindyref2 says:

    Re Borders and D&G, I think this thread shows exactly why they vote differently “down there”. There’s no understanding of the area from people who live in the Central Belt.

    And that includes the Scottish Gvoernment – any political flavour.

  266. AhuraMazda says:

    Fred: “Creaming off the better-off has done its work, no need to wonder further.”

    Fred, that process of moving to the suburbs and beyond the city limits is everywhere. It always has been to an extent.

    Its a sort of hollowing out process and it’s at its worst in places like Glasgow where the very reason for the city’s growth and origins — the central urban economy of ship building etc. — have ceased to exist, leaving a hole surrounded by and containing little detached islands of prosperity and civilisation. We all know the script.

    In cities like London where the central urban economy survived and continued to grow, you see a similar process without the hollowed out hole in the middle.

    Socialists and socialism are great for identifying the symptoms of all this stuff but their solutions have failed. If you look at the role of Scottish Enterprise and the money they have spent, what did they achieve?

    The ‘Call Centre Capital of the World’ title didn’t last long, did it? About as long as it took for some smart-ass to work out that the Indians who spoke English could do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

    I don’t regard call centres as an economy anyway. These aren’t the sort of jobs you would want for your kids, so why create them? Better than nothing? Just. Maybe.

    The SNP should prioritise Glasgow and the Central Belt. It requires long term thinking and a will to tackle the root causes rather than just the symptoms. A real, meaningful vibrant and diverse economy needs to be developed. Something other than Heatwise and Call Centres is needed.

    Do that and you go a long way towards solving health problems, social problems, drugs & alcohol problems, unemployment problems, housing, deprivation generally, child welfare problems, food bank problems, and an unending list of other symptoms. It isn’t rocket science.

    I know there are financial constraints that probably prevent the SNP doing that — independence would probably be required first — but it would be worth trying to figure out and I don’t hear anybody talking about anything other than the symptoms. Crucially, success and movement here would potentially be a huge vote-winner for the independence cause; as I have said before, a vibrant economy is something that has cross-class appeal.

    I think the problem is so bad that it requires cross-party involvement too. If these Unionists believe in their Union then let’s see them address and fix Glasgow which their Union has clearly and so dismally failed. It should be treated with the same urgency as a war or something because the affects are just as drastic.

  267. schrodingers cat says:


    The reason this campaign succeeded was that it lulled potential SNP voters into complacency

    Possibly, but the result of 2016 was that the unionists voted tactically and they got their vote out and the snp did not. The media may have been responsible for that with their “its a foregone conclusion” narrative

    the biggest concern for the remain campaign in england is once again turnout, the leave voters will be animated to vote (see ukip result in scotland in last EU election) more so than the remain voters

    eu polls seem to be all over the place, no real analysis of the question type etc, it will be another 3 weeks before we get a clearer indiction from the polls

  268. yesindyref2 says:

    Thanks for reposting that, yes we need to keep focussed on the objective, Independence. The irony is that I think many of us were basically non-aligned politically before the Referendum campaign got going in 2012, and having adopted a “party” to pursue the aim, now pursue it with all the zeal of people who have been members for decades.

    But for the likes of me it was never about party, it was about Scotland, the party being just the vehicle for delivery of Independence and new politics for Scotland, politics where all and every political party would have as its sole or at least main aim, the prosperity and well-being of Scotland.

    I joined the SNP after the Ref, same as many others joined a party afterwards, having never been a member of any before. It doesn’t sit easy with me, no party is perfect and like many, I like to shoot my mouth off. I do anyway, as I think it makes me nearer to those who vote but don’t actually support any party at all. I have considered letting my SNP membership lapse, but I think it’s important to keep membership up, as the media will seize on droppping memberships as “Independence is running out of steam”.

    It does leave a big gap though in politics in Scotland, and that is that the Conservatives and the conservative viewpoint are very little represented. And I guess for that constant references to the cursed “Tories” don’t help. We do indeed need “Hug a Tory”.

    The current debate here about D&G and the Borders is perhaps part of that. It shouldn’t be about which party people vote for, it should be about convincing them they too should vote for Independence for Scotland. Vote Mundell by all means, but also vote “YES”.

    I would say that if D&G as the easier part, and the Borders from Gretna over to Berwick become 50%+1 for Indy, the game is in the bag.

    Which does leave Shetland and Orkney …

  269. Ken500 says:

    The Clubs wil not police themselves. Never have and never will. They think it brings them money. Blinkered.. It doesn’t it just gives them an extremely bad reputation among the wider public.That’s why the terraces are empty. That’s why many are going out of business.. Most of the Clubs have to get (large) donations from fans.or wealthy individuals. The fans are being having to pay more to support a few extremely wealthy individuals. Many are up to their eyes in reconstructed debt.

    If they got 3points for bad behaviour most of them would be out of business. 1.5 % of sports fans.

    The Opium of the people. Shopping, football (sports) and TV. The top leisure pursuits.

    The Offensive Football Act is supported by the majority of the people in Scotland
    The SNP tax regime is supported absokutely by the majority of the people
    The named ‘Person’ Act is the supported by the majority of the people
    No one cares about Council tax.Apart from putting on tiers. There is hardly anything a Scottish Gov can do unless they have full taxation powers in Scotland, and spending powers. . On Council tax.

    SNP policies are supported by the majority of the People. They turned out in a millions for them. Poliical Parties usurped the Election by lying and cheating, as usual. They were totally all voters but now plan to spend the next five years disrupting Parliament in every way they can to try and give Scotland a less efficient Gov and a less prosperous society.

    The (non) Greens are just despicable along with the rest. Theybarevtotallynwithout honour or principles there treachery is as low as it could get. The voters rejected every one of them.

    The Unionist/(non) Greens are damaging Democracy and governance in Scotland, some they can trough on public money.

  270. yesindyref2 says:

    Polls say Scotland shows two-thirds in favour of Remain in the EU, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the event if it turns out to be level pegging in the referendum itself.

    There’s little interest in the EU referendum in Scotland, and people who have an axe to grind – Leave – are probably more likely to go out and vote. Wouldn’t surprise me if turnout in Scotland is as low as 30%.

  271. Capella says:

    @ john silver 1.40. and @ Thepnr – Well said. The silly knee-jerk insults aimed at the Greens, in a few of the posts above, are a bore. I would guess that most people who read this blog and support the SNP and Independence also support many Green policies.

    The temptation to succumb to divide and rule tactics is pathetic. The Scotsman publishes an article calling Patrick Harvie a kingmaker and off go they go. The MSM is suddenly trustworthy, impartial and accurate!

    Please, let’s resist being duped into internecine battles. The State has a lot of form in stirring up anger and jealousy. “The Central Belt” is also a useful tool to divide and rule.

    Let’s attack the real enemies of democracy and let Nicola get on with her discussions with other YES supporting parties.

  272. bugsbunny says:


    I know a neighbour without a pot to piss in, who voted Tory to save the Union. Jeanne Freeman still got in, but it worked for at least 3 Marginal Tory/SNP seats including Ayr. The Tories are turning Unionist votes into Loyalist votes. And how fucking stupid are some of these voters? “We are not voting for Kezia because she’s a lesbian”. WTF.


  273. heedtracker says:

    it will be another 3 weeks before we get a clearer indiction from the polls

    Brexit wont happen. Look at this week’s full on ProjectFearing from BBC on IMF, Bank of England etc. All they’ll do is terrorise the life out of England just like they did to Scotland, reaching full on terrorising, BBC Scotland UKOK hysterics style, in last week before polling day.

    Rancid The Graun are old hands at Project Fearing people

    “Brexit would prompt stock market and house price crash, says IMF

    Christine Lagarde backs Bank of England governor’s claim that Britain could enter recession after vote to leave EU”

    House price drop threat is enough to make sure middle England votes stay alone. But still waiting for bigot goon Steve Bell’s “do you agree that England should go and ***** itself,” brilliant satire apparently.

    Real show is going to be watching UKOK toryboy world tear into itself.

  274. galamcennalath says:

    schrodingers cat says:

    “unionists … got their vote out”

    This does worry me. At IndyRef there were many IFs … if BBC had been impartial, if no Vow, if no BT lies etc..

    What these have in common is the YES side can’t stop them, we can only try to make the truth known.

    However, there is another big IF which we can influence. iF turn out in the high YES voting areas was as large as the NO areas … YES might have won. Roughly we are talking 70-75% versus 85-90%.

    There are many tactics to deploy for IndyRef2 … target elderly, better off, rural etc to covert the many NOs in these groups. Perhaps just as important is to get all YES people off their erses and voting!

  275. Ken500 says:

    The Borders are not overly hard done by with their proximately to Edinburgh the richest City in Scotland with good facilities. 30/40 minutes. Cheap bus fares. trams. They have good main road access, south and north. Even the minor road per population are adequate, compared to the rest of Scotland.

  276. Grouse Beater says:

    Breeks: “When it comes to the Borders, you sound like you’ve never actually been here”

    Stop playing silly bugger.

    Please tell us why successive Westminster governments ignored investment in the entire region for generations, yet Tory voters were very happy to have that situation prevail. Who owns the land?

  277. Ken500 says:

    The (non) Greens tried to mucked up the last Indy. No wonder the Indy Ref failed with any of them in the Organisation. Using SNP members money to do it. They will try to muck up the next. Just as they will try and mucked up the policies, the majority want for Scotlsnd, and damage the economy.

    The (non) Greens were totally rejected at the Holyrood Elections. They got into power by shafting the SNP They are criminals defrauding public money. They are not Democratic in any way. They are cookoos in the nest and totally despicable. Nicola should just ignore their requests. Let them push it. They have acted dishonestly and disgracefully.getting elected hanging on the SNP’s coat tails. Par for the coarse.

    They will waste £Million/Billions if they are allowed. Save the world, they couldn’t even save themselves. The only mandate they are due is to change the colour of the toilet paper in Holyrood.
    The majority of people think the (non) Greens are weirdos. They just turn off voters with their unpopular policies. ‘60% tax and implied land grabs’.etc.

  278. yesindyref2 says:

    In all fairness Ken, road access to the Borders is crap, unless there’s been big improvements since last I drove through, and it doesn’t look like it from the map. East coast connections down south as a whole are rubbish, the A1 is poor, the A68 and A697 and A7 are nice roads but slow if busy, not brilliant overtaking opportunities either. You don’t even have to go there, you can drive via google maps.

    And trying to get from say Berwick to Lanark in a hurry would do yer heid in. I’d imagine people driving from Edinburgh to Birmingham or even London would still drive across to the M74 and head down that way plus the M6. Come to thing of it, I know they do, at least for Birmingham.

  279. Ken500 says:

    The (non) Greens certainly didn’t put Party poltical Policies aside for democracy and the greater good. They cheated and lied to get defeated but into power. To impose their unpopular policies on the people in Scotland, and waste £Million/Billions of public money. They think they have got away with it.

  280. Breeks says:

    @Artyhetty at 2:07

    I don’t think so Artyhetty. The Borders is different.

    When the Mills were booming, there was plenty work and wealth in the Borders, and there is some property built in that era which speaks of more prosperous times. Those days are long gone, and industry is pretty weak frankly. I suspect hubris played its part, there wasn’t any diversification, and when Mills began shutting down, you had an excess population which had to start travelling for work. Travelling means Edinburgh, and say from Hawick, that’s 50 miles each way, 500 miles a weeks and around 3 hours onto your working day. It’s doable, but it does hurt your wage packet.

    The Borders has seen one industry after another exiting the Borders, all one way traffic, and there has been a period of unrelenting decline. Built heritage which should be getting looked after falls to predatory developers because you can’t make an economic case for keeping them and down they come. Down they come, but crap goes up in their place…. Sometimes. Sometimes just barren sites are left. I think it’s a rate issue that derelict buildings cost the owner…I think.

    The Rugby was a big thing in the Borders, but professionalism had pretty much wrecked that. Every where you turn, there is decline, but a residual feeling that better management might have saved it from happening.

    Within the Borders there are complex dynamics on the go too. Since the changes in 1996, Roxburgh District Council ceased to be, and Scottish Borders took over. This was a watershed; great news for Galashiels, but grim for everybody else in the Borders, especially Gala’s arch rival Hawick.

    House prices are very cheap. But so are earnings to buy them. I suppose that makes them cheap retirement homes, but the Borders doesn’t have the romantic captivating effect of the Highlands and Islands, and I don’t see much evidence that the English are invading. Then again, there are quite a few English voices at the tills in the Supermarkets, so I don’t know. A healthy proportion of the folks I went to school with have left the area, but I can’t say if that’s abnormal.

    I reckon the Borders is just war weary from 50 years of continual decline, and these days every silver lining has a cloud. It doesn’t really help when the rest of Scotland sees the Borders as Scotland’s doormat. The Borders has paid a big price for its loyalty to Scotland. If you ever get the chance to see the Time Team dig at Roxburgh, Kelso, it’s a real eye opener of the legacy of Berwick being held by the English, and doomed Border commerce in the process.

    There’s a good quote from James V times which sums up the Borders perfectly. Some 30 or Armstrong Reivers were duped, taken prisoner and hung by James V. The powerful clan leader, Johnny Armstrong before being hung is believed to have said to the King of Scotland “I am but a fool to seek grace from a graceless face, but had I known you would take me this day, I would have lived in the Borders despite King Harry and you both”. (King Harry being Henry VIII).

    Not much changes in the Borders.

  281. heedtracker says:

    Rancid The Graun flogging the BetterTogether Scotland spaceport, again. They think Scots are mugs which is fair enough after their The Vow shyste success. Toryboy world’s already reneged on everything from carbon capture at Peterhead, onshore renewable energy, to that RN Clyde frigate factory lies. We can all be UKOK astronauts, a much better spend in their Scotland region apparently

    Eight sites – six in Scotland and one each in England and Wales – are currently under consideration for the port, which could launch commercial satellites and tourists into space.

    Artist’s impression of what a UK spaceport might look like.

    Photograph: Publicity image, Thunderbirds are go photo

    The government previously said it could provide 100,000 jobs and that it would be ready by 2018, but the announcement gives the government another two years of leeway before operators including Virgin Galactic could potentially blast off from the chosen site.

    Are you YES yet?

  282. Thepnr says:


    I have always thought that turnout is likely the most important component of a majority Yes vote. The truth is as we all know that those who believe they have something to lose are far more likely to vote than those with nothing to lose. You can see the result for the Tories in Holyrood. The great majority of Tory voters made it to the polling station whereas the rest did not

    Great swathes of people in Scotlands poorest areas weren’t even registered to vote in the Referendum which shows their indifference. Though RIC did at least make inroads into this anomaly by taking the forms onto the street and getting people to register so as their voice could be heard.

    Many though think voting is a waste of time as it will make no difference to them, they couldn’t be more wrong in my view.

    As an aside, the turnout in 2014 at 84.6% was almost identical to the turnout in the 1980 Quebec referendum at 85.6%.

    The Quebecois lost by 60% to 40%, fast forward to the second referendum in 1995 and with a turnout in excess of 93%, the highest in Canada’s history again the Quebecois lost this time by
    54,000 votes from a total of almost 5,000,000.

    At the next Scottish referendum I hope for a turnout in excess of 90%. When everyone has their say we might get a truer picture and I believe those that choose to stay at home last time will this time vote Yes. Ever the optimist.

  283. bugsbunny says:

    I see Boris is comparing the antics of the E.U with that of the Third Reich? When I was younger they had butter mountains, Wine Lakes. They handed out butter, tinned mince and tinned stewing steak to the poor. I can’t remember Zyklon B mountains. Stupid fucking oaf. Our next Prime Minister? God help us.

    This was the man, after all, who said African children were Pickaninnies with Watermelon smiles. And some people see him as an amiable buffoon? We’ll all be laughing on the other side of our faces at the end of June if his side wins. Remember Iain Duncan Smith? If a Brexit, then may I introduce your next Chancellor of the Exchequer? Be afraid, be very afraid.

    Stephen Roney.

  284. schrodingers cat says:

    you are probably right about turn out in scotland but because the polls here have shown scotland to be largely in favour of in, such a low turn out of in supporters is unlikely to effect the over all result.

    england is a different matter

    i think you are probably right, the big guns of project fear are going to come storming in now the devolved elections are over. I just havent seen many polls from england or analysis of them. this will change in the coming weeks and we will have a better idea but turnout in england will be a big factor in the result down there

  285. Thepnr says:

    I sometimes think that the propaganda from “our own side” is every bit as bad as that from the state broadcaster.

    Those preaching division between Yes supporters are a puss filled plook that blemishes the Yes movement. If such a thing still exists.

  286. Ken500 says:

    The Borders are no more crap than any other parts of Scotland. It is a beautiful part of Scotland with industrious smart people and lots of facilities. Some other areas do not have. Some of their problem could be voting Tory. Against their own best interest for years, holding them back.

    One of the large estates is owned by SNP?/Independence supporters. One member of the family works elsewhere to support it. Many of these estates have land but no money. They mortgage the land to raise money, because no enough people want to buy land in Scotland. They provide lodging and try every thing to encourage people on it.

    Scotland has ‘right to roam’ and anybody can roam over most of it.

    Land costs £5000 an acre in Scotland. Anyone can buy it. It can be bought with borrowing over 20 years? On average earning most people could afford it. Scottish Planning Laws prevent people from building a hut. With planning permission it is worth £400,000? depending on the area. A house can be built on 1/4acre of land.

  287. schrodingers cat says:

    an in vote in scotland and an out vote in the ruk which pulls scotland out of the eu would make an yes winning indyref2 more likely.

    then again, the result will be decided in the ruk not scotland
    we can wait and watch, give em enough rope …..

  288. schrodingers cat says:

    Those preaching division between Yes supporters are a puss filled plook that blemishes the Yes movement. If such a thing still exists.

    sleekitken500 does exist and has been trying to do this for days…tiresome

  289. Ken500 says:

    The Spaceport was supposed to come to Moray. RAF staff experience jet flyers. They planned to shut it but had to keep it open. Other base army personnel.? Hard to keep up.Mucking Westminster Tories.

  290. call me dave says:

    Seems our rich list is less worth than their rich list. 🙂

    But they have a shroud waving hit list and Ivan’s on it.

    Tony and Gordon and Dave and Boris and the rest of them don’t get this treatment but it’s OK in Scotland to denigrate the Independence fraternity. Funny old boys world init …init!

    Vote SNP at the Council elections, we’ll get rid of the labour deadwood without Kezia trying to do it.

  291. Ken500 says:


  292. call me dave says:

    Beware the union flags 🙁 but…it’s just starting.–ATP-Rome-/

  293. Ken500 says:

    Quebec is totally different, They have a form of FFA. A Federal system A different form of Government. Canadian Gov. Canada is one of the most prosperous counties. No illegal wars etc. less debt etc.
    One reason they vote No by a small majority because they would lose their Canadian. Something would have been accommodated. ‘Project Fear’.

    It is totally different. History, social, economic.

  294. yesindyref2 says:

    Just looking at the map again (though I did drive it a few times when working in Newcastle and bored with the A69 and its overtaking opportunities (you needed to know the road). As a very basic it needs a good road from Berwick to Coldstream, Kelso, Jedburgh, Hawick.

    Anyway, D&G is a little diffrerent. For instance there’s the links between Dumfries and surrounds, and Carlisle. Longtown of course, cattle markets, even sheep and abattoir. And it’s about the same time to get to Manchester as to Glasgow, road and rail. Cheaper flight from Manchester.

    I’m wondering if Holyrood ever does Constituency reports, or Constituency question time? Something like a half day a week. That could help bring Scotland closer together, and make Holyrood more aware of the different needs of different parts of the country. My impression is it’s all about policy, not individual regional needs.

    There’s a lot of ignorance, and that needs to be tackled.

  295. K1 says:

    Some snippets from the ‘Glasgow effect’ article, confirms what most of us already know: where the true causes of the decline in health and engineered impoverishment of this city’s population truly came from.

    This is especially significant for those who are of the view that people ‘bring it on themselves’. We’re not interested in your glib and patronising ‘assessment’, we’re not interested in your casual cruelty. We’re simply not interested in anything you have to offer here, you have no credibility on this forum.

    ‘The report notes that Scottish Office documents – released under the 30 year rule – show that the creation of new towns, populated by Glasgow’s skilled workforce and young families, which attracted investment, led to a situation where the city was left with “the old, the very poor and the almost unemployable”. Another document admits to “skimming off the cream” of Glasgow to be rehoused in new towns such as Bishopbriggs, East Kilbride and Houston.

    In one policy document from 1971 entitled ‘The Glasgow Crisis’ it was noted that the city was in a socially and economically “dangerous” position as a result of the policy which amounted to “a very powerful case for drastic action to reverse present trends within the city.”

    However the policy continued to be rolled out regardless, a decision which fuelled the break-up of communities and a chronic lack of investment in housing or repairs in housing schemes such as Easterhouse, Drumchapel and Castlemilk.

    As well as Westminster social engineering, the report finds that a range of other factors also made Glaswegians more vulnerable to the effects of poverty and deprivation when compared with data from Liverpool and Manchester, which in the earlier part of the 20th century had similar levels of mortality to Glasgow. The Scottish city started to fall behind considerably in later years.

    Researchers found that the historic effect of overcrowding was an important factor and highlighted the strategies of local government, which prioritised the regeneration of the city centre over investment in the cities housing schemes as having a significant impact on the health of Glaswegians.

    Data shows that Glasgow authorities spent far less on housing repairs, leaving people’s homes poorly maintained and subject to damp.

    David Walsh, of the Glasgow Centre for Population Health, said that their work proved that poor health had political causes and could not simply be attributed to individual lifestyle choices.

    ‘The Scottish Office documents were particularly revealing, he claimed. “The Scottish Office embarked on a series of policies that effectively wrote off the city – they designated it a ‘declining city’ and their plans focused on economic growth elsewhere,” he added. “This was a policy that went on for decades despite an awareness that this was having a massively negative impact in socio-economic terms and therefore on health.”

    Co-author Chik Collins, of the University of the West of Scotland said that this made Glasgow more vulnerable to the policies introduced by the Conservative Government after 1979, leaving the city with weakened industry, loss of skilled labour and very large numbers of problematic council houses in peripheral estates and high rises.

    He claimed Glasgow city and regional council responses further impacted on health. “It was a Scottish variant of trickle-down economics that focussed on retail and tourism, ultimately at the expense of other parts of the community which did not benefit and which did not get the help they needed from elsewhere,” he added.

    “Glasgow got a double-dose of neoliberalism – the UK Thatcherite version, and the more local version led by the Scottish Development Agency and the Council.
    “The ‘excess mortality’ affects the best off as well as the worst off and so all socioeconomic groups in Glasgow have reason to feel some urgency about getting to the root of that problem.”

    The yoons are out in force on this article btl, rubbishing the report. It’s staggering to witness the absolute pig ignorant denial that these people will indulge in when their sense of ‘better the githerness’ is well and truly revealed as the sham that it has always been.

    Frightened they are.

  296. Dr Jim says:

    In 1987 When the Tory vote collapsed in Scotland to 24%
    who could have imagined it would massively rebound to 22%

    ….. David Halliday….on Twitter

    When Ruth Davidson asked NO voters to lend her their votes 74% said NO

    Ruth Davidson is really successful eh
    She can’t even get her own side to vote for her

  297. Thepnr says:

    @call me dave

    Funny that in their expose of Ivan McKee they forget to mention the big hoose in Glasgow South of Margaret Curran holder of the Glasgow Provan seat from 1999 to 2010 before becoming an MP at Westminster. In more than 10 years she achieved absolutely nothing for her constituents.

    I’d rather have Iven Mckee representing me than a dozen Currans.

    “Margaret Curran, Labour’s candidate in the Glasgow East by-election, was yesterday forced to clarify a claim she had lived in the east end “all my life” after it emerged she has lived in an affluent part of the south side of the city for the past 20 years.

    The Glasgow Baillieston MSP angrily denied allegations that she had misled voters, although an aide later conceded she may have made a “slip of the tongue”.

    Ms Curran is not the only candidate to stay outwith the Glasgow East boundaries: at the close of entries to the Electoral Office at Glasgow City Council yesterday, it emerged that, of the mainstream candidates, only one – the SNP’s John Mason – actually lives there.”

    One article for SNP types and none at all for the rest.

  298. K1 says:

    78% Dr Jim 🙂

    (even worse…crooked Tory rewriting a crooked story, is Ruth)

  299. heedtracker says:

    i think you are probably right, the big guns of project fear are going to come storming in now the devolved elections are over.

    It also leads to the issue of referenda anyway, are they really the right way to go for Scottish independence?

    We saw how tory BBC led media can successfully gerrymander Scotland’s Holyrood elections, the triumph of Ruth’s will, and we already know how they can force Scotland to vote NO with the sheer weight of their terror propaganda.

    We’ve now got an SNP Holyrood and an SNP Westminster, so in effect we are now electorally independent. And yet, our neighbours still control all the really big stuff that can make or break Scotland. Wonder which way UKOK toryboy world’s going… If we can just keep forcing out yoons from Scotland, councils next.

    It is a bit disorientating watching hard core conservative yoon UKOK culture whining about how bad the Remain propaganda. My favourite’s Ligger Neil. He’s very good at refuting everyone and everything, now.

  300. Cherry says:


    Not sure if this is the type of thing you’re talking about. I followed quite a few of these roadshows online, in the main there were lots of questions and answers I think this is a link for D&G.

  301. Gary45% says:

    Curran achieved “absolutely nothing in 10 years for her constituents”, I am surprised she achieved that much.
    Why is it that when a Yoon gets found out LYING, its brushed aside as a “slip of the tongue, then an SNP member gets falsely accused of anything they are automatically guilty, in the meja.
    Absolutely no surprise about Curran.

    It will come out as SNP bad anyway.

  302. Dr Jim says:



  303. Gary45% says:

    The Spaceport will never come to Scotch-shire, as it will be a benefit to the northern colony, the yoons will NEVER allow that.

  304. Ken500_fan says:

    I’d just like to applaud Ken500 for his many, many, not-at-all repetitive comments today.

    If I could work out what they meant, I would be sure they were important.

    Seriously folks, are you all looking forward to five more years (at least) of this?

  305. galamcennalath says:

    I think turnout in the Holyrood election might have been higher if the colonial media hadn’t kept telling everyone the SNP were going to win massively. If they had been saying the SNP were likely to lose their majority, more SNP/Yes people might have voted.

    OK it’s up from 2011, but much water has flowed down the Clyde, Tay, and Spey since then.

    Wind forward to Indyref2.

    If the colonial media start saying Yes are going to win, comfortably even, then we might be at risk of losing because of complacency!

    Thepnr says:

    “At the next Scottish referendum I hope for a turnout in excess of 90%.”

    I hope so too, and complacency doesn’t kick in! The more people who are motivated to vote, the greater our chance of winning.

  306. Robert Peffers says:

    @Grouse Beater says: 15 May, 2016 at 11:30 am:

    Indigo: “That’s one of the issues, the Borders is in the south of Scotland, but the south of Scotland is not the Borders.”

    Come on! Grouse Beater, get a grip.

    It’s not as if the Borderers, (and I include D & G), are also so really well up on their geography.

    Like referring to the Central Belt Corridor that includes not only the chalk & cheese Edinburgh/Glasgow divide but includes such as Stirlingshire and Clackmannanshire too. Not to mention Fife and Kinross.

    All I can draw from their bitter complaining is that they are looking for excuses. There is nothing to any of their complaints that cannot be replicated in some other areas of Scotland.

    For example the decline in the textiles industries can be matched by, for example the decline in the Jute industry around Perth & Dundee. The fishing industries in the Forth at Granton, Newhaven and the other Forth Fishing ports on both sides of the Firth.

    The Steam Loco industry and ship building in Glasgow. The Dockyard at Rosyth, the base at Port Edgar, the Fleet Arm Air Base at Donibristle and armaments depots and stores depots right across the central belt. Ship Building at Burntisland Shipyard. The closure of the super pit at Glenrothes.

    Linwood and ever so many other closures right across Scotland. Sorry to say this delusion of the Borders and D & G being recognised as just, “The Borders”, is no better nor worse than the Central Belt used to include Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling, Dundee, Perth and a host of other Scottish towns and cities.

    Nor are the Borders special in lost jobs nor specially neglected. As for Nicola slighting them consider how many times that numptie Cameron slights them by including the Borders as part of, “The Country”, or worse still, “His Country”, when his country is England and the UK is pair of Kingdoms that includes four countries.

    My impression is these Borders Gadgies are acting like spoiled children who imagine themselves as special cases.

    Let the buggers go to England and see how long it takes for them to beg for the benefits bestowed upon them by a Scottish Government to be returned to them. Same goes for the Northern isles. Both lots exercised their democratic rights so can have no complaints if they get what they voted for.

  307. Grouse Beater says:

    The Tory party and creative accounting:

  308. heedtracker says:

    Gary45% says:
    15 May, 2016 at 4:34 pm
    The Spaceport will never come to Scotch-shire, as it will be a benefit to the northern colony, the yoons will NEVER allow that.

    But that’s not stopping rancid the Graun kidding on it will. That’s crew are pretty basic UKOK propagandists though. They managed to get their style of the coming Ulsterisation of Scotland meme out there, up here, by saying its a bad thing, not the meme, but actually saying Scotland is the next Ulster is a v v bad thing, so keep saying it, in all kinds of cunning ways.

    We’ll do well to shake off that mob, red and blue tory.

  309. Grouse Beater says:

    Peffers: “Come on! Grouse Beater, get a grip.”

    🙂 (Good to see you back in rude health!)

  310. Breeks says:

    Aye Mr Peffers, why not go the whole hog and write the Borders part in Scotland’s history out of the narrative altogether. Oooops! You already did.

    I am but a fool to seek grace at a graceless face.

  311. Thepnr says:

    It’s a laugh a minute, this site so it is 🙂

  312. Robert Louis says:

    Here’s an interesting piece from the Guardian. It talks of how Labour is failing in England, because Labour won’t talk about England. So many parallels with their failings in Scotland, with their obsession with Britain. Well worth a read.

    It would seem it isn’t only Scotland that wants its identity back.

  313. Paula Rose says:

    Certainly needs some cheering up doesn’t it Thepnr

  314. heedtracker says:

    Greatest athlete every produced by Scotland doing really well in the ATP Rome final, right the noo!

    But still not worthy of a BBC Scotland tv broadcast. Miserable gits.

  315. K1 says:

    We’re a one party divided regionstate with no feasible means to make any big policy decisions on anything more than road signs and bits of benefits. We can’t raise or lower our taxes as it suits us because we have to ensure ‘no detriment’ betwixt the rUK and the divided Scotland regionstate. One part of this one party divided nation doesn’t unerstaun other parts cause maist of us live in different parts. The Greens are a shower of political ho’s. The Tories are getting the loyalists factions on board by getting rid of the ‘offensive balls flying aboot’ all over a couple of stadiums in Glasgow and by so doing making sure that the regionsate ‘becomes’ a one party divided regionstate.

    It’s a circle ye see? A circle of shite.

    Nicola Sturgeon is a diamond in the rough and the sun is still shinning in Scotland after 6 days in a row now.

    We are winning, really we are. 🙂 🙁 (just for balance ye unerstaun)

    (That’s yer 7 hour roundup for this thread so far…come back tomorrow for the Wingsnews roundup…where you are 😉 )

  316. Gary45% says:

    I no longer buy/read any news??papers, not surprised to hear the Graun running Scotland is the new Ulster.
    I had this very discussion with my wife yesterday, this may well be the “Establishments” next long term move, they have failed at everything else, but I am more than certain that the Scots are far too smart to fall for that bigoted garbage.
    The establishment made a fantastic country that is Northern Ireland into a basket case, although the Irish have seen sense over the years, and a sort of peace has come to them.

    Could it be that the empire used Northern Ireland as a test case, to hold lord and master over all before them? this could well be the situation.

    I think if the beast starts to raise its bigoted head over the wall in Scotland, it will be slain pretty quickly.

    Earlier comments about the Aberdeen bypass.
    Do any wingers know who owns the land that will be used in the large infrastructure projects that will benefit Scotland?
    Aberdeen, The A9, Elgin bypass etc.
    I wonder if any Yoons got wind of the projects many years ago and bought up the land cheaply so they could hold the Scottish Government ransom.
    Could it be the Troughers finding yet another way to shaft Scotland?

  317. Capella says:

    I enjoyed the Alastair Moffat book on Borders history, “Arthur and the Lost Kingdoms”, placing the mythical Arthur and Camelot in Kelso. The tribe of the Gododdin, speaking what we now call Welsh, lived in the Edinburgh and border area. There is some fascinating detail on the place names and lifestyle in post Roman Britain which would cheer up the Borderers.

    In a museum, I think Berwick, there is an account of how wealthy Roxburgh was. The monks kept sheep for the wool and exported it through Berwick. Edward !st captured it to acquire the great wealth. What’s new!

    The Duke of Roxburgh has refused to allow archaeological digs to uncover the ancient town and Royal seat.

    The Borders has plenty to shout about and to attract visitors.

  318. call me dave says:

    Grousebeater , Breeks and Peffers in conflict Geez!

    Shurley not!

    Tennis: Wahoo!

    Novak “f’n not happy” he says… too much rain on his parade.
    Good game though!

    First Scot ever to win the men’s Italian tennis final. 🙂

    Last player for UK to do so was George Patrick Hughes from England in 1931.

    Another milestone for the Murray. Cheered me up anyhoo!

  319. Thepnr says:

    Murray wins the Rome Masters beating Djokavic on his (Murrays) birthday 6-3 6-3.

    Nice, thanks for the link call me dave.

  320. HandandShrimp says:

    See Andy will be British again 😉

  321. cearc says:

    Well here’s a bit of good news about Scotland .

    ‘UN’s top diplomat: Scotland is perfect setting for Syrian peace initiative’

    I rather liked the quote, “Even when I mention this to the UK foreign office they have a certain feeling of pride in the fact that Scotland is having this type of unique message.”

    Yea, I bet they were really delighted!

  322. Macart says:

    @call me dave

    Good heads up.

    As shrimp says, he’ll be British again… for five minutes.:D

  323. Capella says:

    The BBC front page has nothing on the Andy Murray win. Just a Breaking News line in the sports section – no picture.

    British number one Andy Murray won his first Italian Open title with a 6-3 6-3 victory over top seed Novak Djokovic on Sunday in Rome.

    More to follow.

  324. heedtracker says:

    Murray wins! They playing god save the queen. Booooo.

  325. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Peffers
    Couldn’t agree more. So since North-East Fife voted for Willie Rennie we’ll let it be part of England. Then there’s Eastwood and Ayr, Edinburgh Western and Southern and Aberdeenshire West, bye-bye. Also East Lothian. Yup, sod ’em, they voted Unionist we all have our problems so let’s redraw the borders of Scotland.

    Every place has its own moans, but some do have a more legitimate complaint than others as to not being compeltely included in Scotland. For me that’s D&G, Borders and the Northern Isles.

    Yes I know that’s not what you meant, but “their bitter complaining is that they are looking for excuses.“. Doesn;t help. Even in Ettrick the Tory vote was just 56% which means 44% didn’t vote Tory. In Dumfriesshire I think it was quite close with the SNP. So are they to be told to sod off as well?

  326. heedtracker says:

    Andy’s birthday today, 29! Rome baked him a birthday cake.

  327. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes that helps, as does having Cabinet meetings. Don;t get me wrong, the SNP Governments have done more towards inclusiveness than the previous administrations, and the Scotland Office over decades and decades.

    It’s the ignorance within Holyrood needs to be addressed, hence my idea of weekly reports from say 2 of the regions and all its constituencies, from their MSPs. It might make some of the MSPs work harder for their constituencies as well:

    “Well, Mr Mundell Junior, what from the Borders (sic)?”

    “Ummm, fine day”.

  328. Luigi says:

    For all those moaning about the NO majorities in the borders and the northern Isles, please bear in mind that there are many indy supporters in both regions. That is something to cheer about. The SNP came first or second in every single Scottish constituency last week, and blew the rest of the field away with total list votes. That is one hell of an achievement.

    I would agree, however, that the Scottish government needs to strengthen ties (transport links, TV, broadband etc) with these regions. The A1 and A7 should be dualled to the border. Don’t wait on them catching up south of the border with these strategic routes. It will take 100 years.

    And as for all this green-bashing: There seems to be one hell of an assumption that people voting Green on the list were natural SNP voters lending their votes. Show me the evidence! Talk about a bloated sense of entitlement. Could it just be, per chance, that it was the other way round, that natural Green voters loaned their constituency votes to the SNP? (last week and in 2015).

    Personally, I donlt see what the big deal is. Some people are trying hard to divide the indy movement.

    We are still winning – get over it. 🙂

  329. call me dave says:

    Much muted well done celebrations for Murray on EBC radio 5 six ‘o’clock news on his BIRTHDAY no less!

    They actually said Poor Novak had to play all the other best players including Nadal and had a long three setter with Kei Nishikori in the semi-final the day before!

    All over in less than 30 secs!
    We know our place: 🙁

    Just in case: Yesterday:

    Grace Reid became the first Scot to win an individual European Championships diving medal for Great Britain in 62 years with 3m springboard bronze in London.

  330. Thepnr says:


    They have gone from God Save the Queen to YMCA Young Man. That DJ should get a job on Off Topic LOL.

  331. heedtracker says:

    They have gone from God Save the Queen to YMCA Young Man. That DJ should get a job on Off Topic LOL.

    Thepnr, its Go West, Pet Shop Boys

    When in Roma! What a week for Murray though. One well beaten Serb by a Scots athlete that’s got better and better SKY sports commentary a bit flat for Andy though, guess where he’s from:D

    Proud Scot, no buts.

  332. cearc says:

    Not sure that GStQ would go down too well on O/T.

  333. K1 says:

    Aye I see they’ve moved the Ivan McKee smear into the ‘top story’ on the Herald site to gain more traction:

    ‘Common Weal director and SNP MSP Ivan McKee bought 660k luxury flat with no mortgage’

    Shower of smearing shits.

  334. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh I don’t know.

  335. call me dave says:

    Euan McColm: In the Hootsman to cheer us all up.

    SNP’s enthusiastic backing for Ken Macintosh a concern.

    But what was the SNP up to? Why did so many nationalists want Macintosh to replace Tricia Marwick, the former SNP MSP, as Presiding Officer?

    A clue might be found in the briefing that followed Macintosh’s victory. The new Presiding Officer was going to take a cautious and pragmatic approach to reform; he did not share an opposition hunger for change.

    This is hugely disappointing stuff.
    You an My Comb… What an arse you are!

    The PO is supposed to be neutral and resign from their party.
    But he has a different opinion. 🙂

  336. DerekM says:

    Hey are all you guys having a mental breakdown or something ?


    and havnt you learned anything from the Rev?

    You are not dealing with the stupid red tories anymore you are dealing with the nasty party they wrote the book on divide and conquer,get with it and stop attacking each other the yoons are laughing their heads off at you.

    shakes head and logs out to go for a drink jeez.

  337. Dorothy Devine says:

    Well done oor Andy! Even if the BBBC can’t bring itself to mention the win.

    I have just read a ghastly piece of an article in the Herald by a man I used to think might be a worthwhile and fair journalist – now I wouldn’t employ him on the Hello or OK magazines so appalling is his content . A once decent paper is being brought to the abyss by the crap it publishes.

    What happened to you Paul Hutcheon? Were you threatened in some way? Or was my original assessment of you totally wrong?

  338. HandandShrimp says:

    Ivan McKee was a leading light in Business For Scotland. He is a successful businessman and he has used that success to buy a home. It is a flat in a nice part of Glasgow. I am not sure what the problem is.

    I am also sure lots of Labour politicians have nice homes too. Is there some new rule that states that SNP politicians have to wear sack cloth and ashes and live on the street.

    The SNP are left of centre, a social democrat party not a radical communist party.

    One rule for SNP MPs and MSPs and another for all the rest by the looks of it.

  339. Capella says:

    The hatchet job on Ivan McKee is another obvious attempt at divide and rule. Ivan is bright, articulate and a successful businessman. I’ve seen him interviewed during the Indyref campaign and he is very capable of putting the case and countering media lies. That’s why the media will want to undermine his reputation.

    Divide and rule. Ivan in his nice flat, Nicola in her designer suits, shock. How can these people possibly represent ordinary Glaswegians!

  340. Paula Rose says:

    Successful business people becoming MSPs? That’ll never do let’s have some failures instead like graphs r us Kevin.

  341. Phronesis says:

    Danny Dorling writes extensively about the multifaceted aspects of inequalities and has an interesting perspective on Brexit-

    Politics is rooted in morality, ethics and truth. Unfortunately a basic inability to grasp that and a remarkable zeal for enshrining unjust social policies and zombie economics in legislation results in this-

    ‘Reductions in work allowances under Universal Credit introduced in April 2016 will cost families with children up to £2630 per year.

    Decisions around Free School Meal provision in Universal Credit could risk introducing severe work disincentives
    100,000 disabled children stand to lose up to £29 per week as a result of cuts to the disabled child addition within Universal Credit.

    Disabled Lone Parents with Young Carers stand to lose £58 per week as a result of the loss of the Severe Disability Premium under Universal Credit. The loss of this support is likely to place considerable additional care burdens on young carers.

    Lone Parents and people with limited capability for work under the age of 25 are likely to lose up to £15 per week as a result of reductions in standard allowances for these groups under Universal Credit – this measure is expected to push 100,0000 young people and their families into poverty.

    A four year freeze on support for children under Universal Credit is expected to reduce the value of key children’s benefits by 12% by the end of the decade’.

    ‘The impact of the loss of SDP (severe disability premium) could be very severe. 83% of those eligible for SDP said a reduction in benefits would mean they have to cut back on food and 80% would have to cut the amount they spent on heating.’

    The Children’s Society asks the question-

    Is the Minister concerned that 100,000 people will be pushed into poverty under Universal Credit as a result of changes to standard allowance rates for under 25s?’

    I think that we know the answer to that question. Every time that Ms Davidson et al chit chat about SG’s failings perhaps they should be reminded of their true allegiance to a party that exists to serve a very small % of the electorate.

  342. call me dave says:

    SNP hit out at British Bill of Rights plan

    Scottish Law V English Law is always a problem for England never the twain shall meet.

    ‘British Bill of Rights’ is a Tory attempt to bypass citizen’s and worker’s rights within the EU.

  343. call me dave says:


    Good catch there. What a get for Murray.

    At the time I was gob smacked that he actually tried to return it.


    Well said, it will be hard for Ruthless (pretendy good Tory) to deflect the flak that is surely coming her way at FMQs if she dares to talk down the SG on social issues.

    I expect that Deputy Deadwood and ‘In for a Penny Rennie’ would not stoop to such low tactics either and support our FM in these circumstances.

    Aye right! 🙁

  344. yesindyref2 says:

    @call me dave
    Macintosh was very promising at one time, but went downhill a bit after being beaten by Lamont. He might be just the job as PO, a worthwhile replacement for Marwick. Reform is needed, as is evolution in the parliament. But slowly and carefully.

    I’d like to like him again.

  345. yesindyref2 says:

    Ivan McKee has posted on Wings, and I think he has on the Herald and Guaridan occasionally. One of us! Defo one of the good guys.

    Here’s one example:

  346. Thepnr says:


    Only in Tory world and the BUM media is it important that an elected official is really and truly better off then their constituents.

    I would have thought that the simple fact of being elected on a salary of £58,000 a year more than twice the average salary in Scotland is likely to mean that you will buy a bigger/better house than the average.

    All MSP’s must be found guilty then, they all earn the same same salary though I doubt that many Labour or Tory paln to give half their salary to the local community and charity as Ivan McKee has stated he will will do.

    I’ll bet Maggie Currans salary went no further than her own pocket. Fucking hypocrites, smear after smear. Not working though.

    Remember Nicola’s coffee machine? The snob.

    We are not as thick as they take us for.

  347. heedtracker says:

    Gary45% says:
    15 May, 2016 at 5:36 pm
    I no longer buy/read any news??papers, not surprised to hear the Graun running Scotland is the new Ulster.

    You’re not missing anything much. Scotland’s being airbrushed out of teamGB by the day, or nothing news worthy happens here. Unless that is, its SNP bad day. Its always SNP bad day in UKOK media land.

    Its certainly one way of yoon culture asserting and maintaining their socio economic and cultural domination of Scotland. BBC Scotland is their last big colonial outpost in Scotland, with newsrooms around their region like the Press and Journal gits, keeping us in line.

  348. Dr Jim says:

    To become a Holyrood MSP Ivan McKee is taking a rather large pay drop because he is a very successful and wealthy businessman and does not in any way need the cash

    Ivan was an unsuccessful candidate for the SNP in last years GE, He stood as candidate for East Dunbarton and for Springburn

    He is as someone has said, one of the good guys

  349. stewartb says:

    Thanks Phronesis (@6.55pm) for the link to the NewStatesmen article on Brexit and the British Empire.

    Written by two academics, an honorary research fellow at Oxford University’s Department of Education and a professor of Geography at Oxford University, the following extract from their consideration of a post-Brexit scenario is notable:

    “It is a matter for debate as to who will want to trade freely with us English, if we decide to go it alone.”

    Have these highly educated individuals accepted that Scotland (and Wales and NI) will all soon become independent or is this just more of what happens so often with the BBC i.e. ‘UK’ equates to ‘Great Britain’ equates to ‘England’! Might have expected more of a geography professor!

  350. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @heedtracker –


    ‘Andy Murray’, for example, doesn’t actually exist.

  351. Thepnr says:

    Here’s a wee clip of proud Scot but entrepreneur John Boyle taking on Ivan McKee on Sky News 9 months before the referendum.

    Worth a watch, the proud Scot loses it LOL.

  352. Gary45% says:

    Thanks for that, man there’s a boil that should be lanced.
    Anyone know if Mr Boyle resides in Scotland? or is he just the usual cringer trougher living Dan Saf? he looked more like a panto dame.

  353. yesindyref2 says:

    John Boyle was Zoom Airlines. Whatever happened to that company? There’s XPO Airlines but it seems to operate in the Americas, Canada particularly. Ah well. Canada is part of Britain after all. Ummmmm,

  354. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thpnr –

    Goodness me, what an obnoxious fud that man is. Never seen him before. Ivan did well not to give him a swift backhander.

    Anyone who describes himself as an ‘entrepreneur’ should be publicly flogged and/or pelted with unmentionables.

  355. Ken500 says:

    There an unelected Tory – Burnett, whose family own half the half of Deeside. £Billion. His mother is a cousin and lady- in-waiting to Queen Bee. Will that be reported? Zilch.

    Some unelected Tories are so useless they can’t even get a job in the family business. The family business is having to pay £Millions back because they have been overcharging the council for building/maintenance contracts. Despite being warned they were charging 7% more on every invoice. 15% on every invoice instead of 8%. The firm is such a shambles. They are overcharging. Cutting their profits,

    Drinks Parties with the landowners and a trip to big House. and a Wee donation in the back pockets in the FibDem (non) Green Unionist’s back pockets for the Party. Council staff are trying to find a solution so the Councillors Do find out. The Council has been an utter Unionist/ (non) Green shambles for years. Graft and corruption and planning permission. That is why they join Unionist/(non)Green Political Parties to get their hands on £Millions/Billions of public money. Aided by the sanctums conniving Press.

    A professional couple, who don’t smoke and drink in moderation, can’t afford a good coffee maker?

    Their salaries for the responsibilities and qualification are quite low. In the private sector they could earn twice their salaries and expenses. They are not in Politics for the money but because they care.

    Ivan McKee could earn much more in the Private sector but went into Politics because he cares. He can read a balance sheet and realised how much better Scotland could with FFA/Independence. That goes for all nearly all SNP (elected) members.

    Nicola does not take her full salary. Alex Salmond gave heaps of money to charity. He could have earned a fortune in the private sector in banking or the stock market. He became an MP/politician because he cares and wanted to make a difference. All the SNP MP’s take a lower salary and did not take the last increase but give it to charity.

  356. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah yes, Hamilton Portfolio (John Boyle). I remember them and their Project Fear prononouncements, have to join the queue for the euro, Greece, that stuff. Irony is with commercial property investment and HQs coming to Scotland in a hurry, they stood to get minted. Entrepreneur my smelly ring.

  357. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, so Lilibet used to call her Grandfather “Grandfather England”. There you go 🙂

  358. AhuraMazda says:

    Ian brotherhood: “Anyone who describes himself as an ‘entrepreneur’ should be publicly flogged and/or pelted with unmentionables.”

    This is a great example of the sort of anti-business rhetoric and prejudice that we want to get away from. My guess is that this sentence I have quoted above has probably cost us bout 25 votes in the next indyref.

    Well done.

  359. Thepnr says:

    Eugghh! yesindyref2

    Didn’t really need to know that. However!

    Your right of course, the most vociferous No supporter are those that benefited from a No vote. Let’s face it money talks, and nothing would shut up those that care about money more than anything else.

    I may be of left wing wing persuasion but are perfectly happy to see what I beleive to be a principled man like Ivan McKee represent the area I grew up. I do believe he will do the best he can for his constituents and you can’t ask for more than that.

    Compare with the likes of Anus Sarawar? Argghhh! I despise that man, he is a fraud like his father and his constituents mean nothing to him.

    I’m not an SNP member but give me people like Tommy Shepherd, Phillipa Whitford, Mhaira Black and Ivan McKee to represent the Scottish people then I’ll support that.

    The SNP do have quality people not least Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. I can but admire that. There are always qualities to admire even in your political foes. Worth remembering that is.

  360. Ian Brotherhood says:

    There’s nothing wrong with being an entrepreneur. Calling yourself one is another matter.

    And calling yourself something completely different every other fortnight is something else again.

  361. Paula Rose says:

    @AhuraMazda is “Being Silly” your other name? Cos really that is so stupidly daft.

  362. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    “And calling yourself something completely different every other fortnight is something else again.”


  363. Onwards says:


    “The Greens annoy me, not because they put up candidates in the HE, they’re entitled to as a party. They annoy me because they have their heads in the clouds..”

    I think it will be a great shame if the APD policy can’t get through because of the Greens. It is the one major tool in the new powers that could have really stimulated economic growth.

    Tourism has the potential for huge growth in Scotland, but the high cost of air travel is a major obstacle. Now the Tories would normally be for lower taxes, but they don’t want Scotland to undercut England in any regard, so there will be no deals there.

    The thing is, I’m sure Patrick Harvie and the Greens know their
    policies make no economic sense. 60% tax etc.
    But they are deliberately targeting a naive section of the electorate and hippy dippy students..knowing they never have to actually run a government.

    I think a lot of people are going to be disenchanted with the Greens by the end of this parliament if they are seen as damaging the Scottish economy.

  364. Thepnr says:

    I tried to post something a wee bit earlier for some reson it didn’t appear. Anyway it was along the lines of the quality that the SNP have in their ranks as MP’s.

    I’m talking of the likes of Tommy Shepherd, Phillipa Whitford, Mhairi Black. Of course and one Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson.

    I am pleased that people of their caliber represent the Scottish voter, it makes it easy for me to vote SNP x 2 even though not a natural SNP supporter. We are truly blessed to have that quality.

    Don’t know about the rest of you but my over riding ambition is to obtain a Yes vote in another referendum, this is surely possible if the current support is smart. That’s us, we are the current support.

    My old man had a tattoo on his arm of a teddy boy leaning under a gas lamppost, the words beneath said “Death Before Employment”. I think as a young man he may have wanted to make a statement, nobody was listening other than himself.

    That’s the Yes movements problem, nobody is listening other than ourselves. We have to do better I think in order to change that and we won’t do it by slagging each other off then we need to put in a bit more effort at working together.

    Working together? Holding hands 🙂 If that’s what it takes.

  365. yesindyref2 says:

    Totally agree. APD is perhaps the one power I wanted Scotland to have out of the quite miserable bunch we got, the one with any realy usable value.

    Talking about D&G and perhaps the Borders, I wonder how many fly from Glasgow or Edinburgh? Or do they go to Newcastle and particularaly Manchester to fly off on their holidays? Son’s managed a cheap deal and they’re going via Manchester – from Dundee. It’s cheaper. Even some changing in D&G to Glasgow for holidays and business, Edinburgh for the Borders, could strengthen ties with the rest of Scotland the “Central Belt”.

    But of course it’s the economic benefit is the important bit. There’ll be hell to pay if the Greens block that, and Labour don’t see a golden opportunity for them to support it. Or the LibDems.

  366. Returnofthemac says:

    Agree with Hand and Shrimp, re Ivan McKee. Glad to say I was out canvassing on Ivan’s behalf in Provan. I am hopeful that he will do much more for the people of Provan than whit’s his name, you know the son of the Springburn Lord the guy who was the speaker in the Hof C.

  367. Dr Jim says:

    Michelle Mone’s an entrepreneur

    (Dives behind sofa to avoid flying objects)

  368. Dr Jim says:

    Joanna(Kick ass)Cherry

    5 STAR *****

  369. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Please note that AHugeRammyInAsda gets very tetchy if you don’t answer him directly and/or mis-spell any of his names.

    He’s been quite mellow and civil in recent days, which increases the likelihood that he is about to go mediaevally full-on Nawbag tonto on someone’s Cybernat ass.

    Be careful out there…

  370. AhuraMazda says:

    “And calling yourself something completely different every other fortnight is something else again.”

    Yes, it is something else again. Something else that doesn’t cost us votes.

    Paula Rose, think of the impression you make when you attack someone like that. In the last few minutes, I guess at least one or two visitors to the site have read what you typed and concluded that we don’t like intelligent people here or entrepreneurs.

    The best thing most of you could do for Wings and the Independence cause is shut down your computers and go read a book or something. I’m sorry but that’s the truth.

  371. schrodingers cat says:

    Working together? Holding hands 🙂 If that’s what it takes.


    can we sing kumbayah too? 🙂

    btw, excellent research on who actually lives in the constituencies

    facts are chiels that dinna ding

    i met ivan at an organised meeting in freuchie, well smart representative. we need people of this caliber to answer questions about the economy in indyref2

    if and when indyref2 comes, i have a feeling that after the eu ref, the yoons will have spent every bolt they have. they are a spent force. no one is listening to anymore in scotland

  372. schrodingers cat says:

    thus spake etc…


  373. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dr Jim –

    Michelle Mone is certainly a genuine ‘entrepreneur’ – no-one else has ever tried opening up a fresh market as a human ‘I-Speak-Your Weight’ facility for middle-aged midgets.

  374. AhuraMazda says:

    Well done again, Ian, we just lost the midget vote.


  375. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @ MaDa’sInAHurry –


  376. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 19:38 said:

    Only in Tory world and the BUM media is it important that an elected official is really and truly better off then their constituents.

    Even more than that, what gets me is that these media exec types are all on very high salaries themselves, and know diddley squat about the lives of the ordinary people whom they purport to represent.

    I had wondered how media Labourites would react to the latest Labour plunge, but if this smear jobby by The Herald is anything to go by, they have learnt absolutely nothing from it. Overpowered by jealousy, it seems, they just can’t stop themselves from attacking the SNP, even though in the process they are clearly damaging themselves and their beloved party far more than their intended targets. Meanwhile our mutual enemies the Tories are standing on the sidelines cheering them on while smirking at their crass stupidity.

  377. For all those who wonder what the SNP has done for the Borders, and who think it is nothing, then watch and learn. This only applies to the Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire constituency, add in the other Borders constituencies and you have significant improvements in the area’s infrastructure.

    With regard to the new rail line, shops, tourism and other businesses are reporting large increases in sales since the line opened – the reason why there is clamour for it to be extended to Hawick and beyond.

  378. Robert Louis says:

    Thepnr, at 0927pm,

    I agree with every word of your comment. I also agree, that the calibre of people within the SNP is excellent. I do think, however, there are certain people deliberately trying to sow division and dissent amongst the pro indy groups. Following the referendum, it started on that Bella site, and now, it seems there is a lot of it on here.

    People need to (as rev says) think hard about the fact that comments on here are read by many, including those thinking about indy. Lots of very aggressive posting on here recently, and it just puts people off.

    Then there is the constant waste of time, where people reply over and over again (proving nothing but their own individual stupidity) to trolls. People reply – Troll wins.

    Like you, thepnr, my goal is independence and if it means I need to work with various groups of people, that is a price worth paying. I only hope that once the campaign kicks off again this summer, people will start to focus more on that.

    Working together we will win for all of Scotland, including the Scottish borders. Divided, and slagging off groups of people or certain Scottish regions, we will lose for good.

    (thepnr, just in case, just to avoid any misunderstanding, those comments are not being directed at you).

  379. Dr Jim says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Does that mean we might have lost Michelle Mone’s vote as well, here was me thinking we could win her over too

    Ach you win some, then you win some more

  380. Can I just point out that the election ten days ago was not about independence and there is hardly any surprise that the Borders showed a huge Tory vote. That’s because there is a lot of Tories there and we have had six months of uninterrupted, generous and completely non confrontational coverage of the Tories and ridiculous promotion of Buffalo Ruth.

    One step at a time. The object of the election from our point of view was to continue the destruction of Labour. This we achieved in spades.

    It is now Scotland against the Tories. We have work to do – particularly in the farming community following the very serious cock-up with their payments. But there is a substantial independence vote in the Borders and throwing insults at borderers is not the way to increase it.

    I also repeat the Offensive Behaviour legislation is widely popular and our opponents will get no kudos trying to take it down.

  381. Dr Jim says:

    @Paula Rose

    How very dare you use language like the word “Silly” in your attacks
    It’s vile quite frankly and I’m appalled and shocked to my very core

  382. Graeme McCormick says:

    Never in the field of politics has so much media time been spent discussing the contest between mediocrities , Conservatives and Labour!

  383. yesindyref2 says:

    Here’s one for you.

    Don’t be a stranger to it now!

  384. Cadogan Enright says:

    Torys keen on getting rid of the Offensive Football Act – It is pretty clear that they want to open up space for themselves to use racism and sectarianism as a political tool in Scotland and make a Labour recovery less likely while painting the SNP as the ‘opposite’ or ‘other’ in a hate campaign supported by a willing media.

    It is in their DNA, and they have used this around the UK and indeed around the world for their own benefit.

    would be concerned if my natural home – the Green Party – were to facilitate the the Torys in this manner – they cannot claim ignorance over the historical record here – most recently in London with the new Lord Mayor

    At the very least the standards of conduct of MSP’s and Councillors need tightened up in preparation for the Torys using this approach.

    Amendment of the Act would be better – also adding a ban on politicians using football and sectarianism for political advantage

  385. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @MudHarmsYou –

    In all seriousness, here’s a link to ‘Michelle Mone’s Top Ten Rules For Success’

    How does her list compare with yours?

    What can the ‘socialists’ you despise learn from this?

  386. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    77th Brigade folks.

  387. Glamaig says:

    I’m not interested in football and dont know anything about it, and havent paid much attention to the offensive behaviour legislation either. Are there any problems with it? Id have thought that discouraging sectarianism would be a good thing, and opposing the legislation would be only by people who want sectarianism and division to continue?

  388. Ken500 says:

    Andy Murray played Great. Absolutely Great. Best every.

    Djokovic acted like a spilt kid. When he knew he wasn’t winning he started to get more and more annoyed. It was raining a bit and he was desperately trying to get the match stop. Throwing his racquet about. Arguing with the umpire. Said ‘F Off’. Every time he took it back a bit he was all right.

    Andy Murray was having to play in the same conditions and was play brilliantly. Unbelievable. Best ever. It was amazing,

    The Organisers did not want to extend play until Monday. All the spectators had paid for their ticket and travelling expenses, were expecting a Match. They are the 1st and 2nd players in the world.

    How many times has Andy had to come second and watch Djokovic get 1st Prize. Andy has always been accepting of it and been a sportsman.

    Unless Djokovic had forgot to take his drugs,

  389. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    I would like to echo what Robert Louis @ 22:09 said:

    People need to … think hard about the fact that comments on here are read by many, including those thinking about indy. Lots of very aggressive posting on here recently, and it just puts people off.

    The indy movement isn’t short of real enemies, so it’s not wise to go on the warpath looking for more of them among people who are basically on the same side. No-one has a monopoly on good ideas, so a degree of patience and a willingness to accept that others are acting in good faith will go a very long way.

  390. yesindyref2 says:

    Borders – worth point out that only Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale stayed Conservative in the GE 2015 with a huge swing to the SNP:

    Conservative, with candidate David Mundell:

    20,759 total votes taken.
    39.8% share of the total vote
    +1.8% change in share of the votes

    Scottish National Party, with candidate Emma Harper:

    19,961 total votes taken.
    38.3% share of the total vote

    D&G went SNP from Lab and Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk SNP from LibDem.

    It appears the voters are prefectly happy to have the SNP strong for them at Westminster, fighting Scotland’s corner, and currently prefer the Tories in Holyrood to fight their corner there. There’s lessons to be learnt from that.

  391. cearc says:


    Thanks for that. I think it is exactly what they are trying to do but it carries more weight coming from you.

    ‘Ulsterisation’? Just inventing the word makes their intentions clear.

  392. Thepnr says:


    Funnily enough I feel the same. I really don’t have a clue about the Offensive Behaviour Act. Why should I? It matters little to me, I guess those getting their knickers in a twist have an axe to grind.

    Boring, very boring. If that’s the best that the Unionist politicians can come up with then there really is not much to worry about. A pathetic little law being fought over by pathetic Unionist parties.

    I better say this cos I’m always arguing for togetherness etc, see if the Greens fail to support the SNP they are stuffed in any future election with regard to support on the list vote. Maybe something Mr Harvie should keep in mind.

    Haha said the clown, knew what they were looking at.

  393. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “What rips my knitting is the fact the SNP refused to mention independence in their manifesto but now AFTER the election they say independence is their major issue. They lost YES voters by explicitly excluding independence from their election manifesto.”

    Anyone who thought the SNP’s major goal wasn’t still independence is a fucking idiot.

  394. schrodingers cat says:

    Robert Louis

    agreed, but with one caveat, it isnt just those btl on bella who sow discord, the articles above do too

    the same is true of wings,
    during the ref, some in the yes camp were very critical of wings, ross greer in particular.

    the rev has been getting his own back on him in the last few articles. personally i dont blame him, i have had a few run ins with him and debora storr on the bella facebook page. i dont like either of them. reading stu’s twitter feed, he is deliberately avoiding anything political at the moment, posting photos of parks, sweets etc. i dare say his inbox and twitter feed is an assault of insults we can only imagine, I would get me down, thats for sure

    we can all blow off steam, indeed it is necessary, but we do need to move on. those that continue to flog a dead horse, days and even weeks after the evernt, only draw my suspition.

    what ever happened in the ge and he is now past, we need to be discussing where YES goes now

    this is the goal, the only goal, the only question worth discussing

  395. schrodingers cat says:

    Dr Jim says:
    15 May, 2016 at 10:23 pm
    @Paula Rose

    How very dare you use language like the word “Silly” in your attacks
    It’s vile quite frankly and I’m appalled and shocked to my very core

    shocked and stunned, so i am

    on the 19th of september, after drinking the better part of a bottle of whisky to drown my sorrows, i was awoken on my couch by a phone call. it was a bubbly and bright young lassie from bbc scotland Landward program asking me if i would be willing to take part in a program about scotlands ancient orchards….. to this day, i have no idea how i managed to remain polite, probably due to said hang over, but i managed to say , “no, not now, not ever, i will never watch the bbc ever again and dont call me again” click

    listening to you description of the bbcs very selective editing of your appearance doesnt surprise me and confirms my belief that things are not back to normal, how ever much the bbc would like to think, and they wont be until scotland is independent

    the orchards are on hold till then

  396. AhuraMazda says:

    Ian, assuming you desire to be taken seriously, pay attention.

    I don’t hate socialists. I believe they costs us the referendum and our independence, but I understand that most of them mean well.

    In law the excuse of meaning well does not exonerate those who cause and do harm. In that sense it’s no excuse at all. Would you be satisfied if an RAF pilot dropped a bomb on your house and argued that he meant well?

    Aside from the socialists who appear to mean well, there are those who pretend to subscribe to the gospel of socialism for their own selfish reasons. I include most of Scottish Labour in this category.

    Everything they do is cloaked in lofty sounding principles about helping the working man and the poor; it’s always worth stressing again and again that the areas who most loyally voted Labour for decades are the areas that remained the poorest of all.

    I don’t know what the socialist vision for an independent Scotland is, it seems to be based on increasing welfare spending and little else, but I do know that the data suggests it scared the life out of No voters.

    My vision of an independent Scotland includes a vibrant economy with the workers and their firms enthusiastically working together and a dramatically reduced dependence on welfare. This is a politically neutral position.

  397. schrodingers cat says:

    Conan the Librarian™ says:
    15 May, 2016 at 10:27 pm
    77th Brigade folks.


    i think ken500 is one too, can anyone vouch for him?

  398. schrodingers cat says:

    the ulsterisation meme is a threat to the indy camp. pure and simple

    it says to us “bring it on” the yoons dont intend to give up without a fight, the establishment of the 77th brigade is an example of that, so is the love in by slab with the OO

    the snp should run with an out right ban on OO marches in glasgow in the 2017 council elections, at least charge them for the police costs.

    time to beat our chests too

  399. AhuraMazda says:

    Okay i watched the Michelle Mone top ten. She’s entirely thick, that’s clear.

    I officially renounce Satan, free markets, and liberal democracy.

    I think she makes a good argument for going back to the trees, possibly even the water.

  400. schrodingers cat says:

    assuming you desire to be taken seriously, pay attention.

    did i forget to tell you today…..etc

  401. Thepnr says:

    Can anyone vouch for you schrodingers cat? Should we care?

    Haha just pulling your tail as usual. Ken500 seems to have changed though. At one time always an early morning poster. now time doesn’t matter it seems.

    So what, every site has it’s “characters” Ken500 is one for sure, me too maybe. No big deal, other than spreading dissent. That’s a sin in my book, Yes voters are still thin on the ground. Alienating one, would be one too many. I guess we have yet to learn that lesson.

    Maybe one day we might…

  402. Ken500_fan says:

    “Andy Murray played Great. Absolutely Great. Best every.

    Djokovic acted like a spilt kid.”

    And it’s another Ken500 classic. Is there no beginning to this man’s talents?

    No referendum for at least 5 years. Y’all going to be doing this for that long?

  403. TeddySue says:

    Rev, in reply to you articulate reply. There must be a lot of fucking idiots in Scotland that WONDER WHY THE SNP DID NOT HAVE INDEPENDENCE IN THEIR ELECTION MANIFESTO!

    Keep on back slapping and preaching to the converted, good luck with your attitude problem, any neutrals reading this site will be loath to return. They are the people you really have to get on board for independence to be a reality.

  404. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Thepnr.

    Most of your input over the past week has been rather good. Methinks we may have another Wings Dundee/Angus/Fife get-together in July, if nothing’s gonna happen in Inverness.

    Invergowrie (YES friendly), central Dundee (unknown) or Broughty Ferry (unknown)?

    I hope this doesn’t start an east end / middle / west end spat…


  405. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @YerDa’sAHoor –

    Michelle Mone thick?

    What a horrible thing to say about a fellow capitalist and globally famous entrepreneur.

    You’re dismissing her Top-Ten, just-like-that (as Tommy Cooper used to say) without even addressing one of her points?

    Shame on you!

  406. schrodingers cat says:

    Haha just pulling your tail as usual.

    keep pulling pnr, you give as good as you get, i was talking about conans reference to the 77th brigade, a real and reported phenomina, I, like conan, believe they are on this thread. It isnt a conspiracy theory pnr.

    im not trying to alienate any potential yes voters, just trying to identify potential trolls, paid to come here and spread division.

    we all have our moments, you, me, the rev etc, but i dont think anyone doubts our desire for an independent scotland is at the fore front of our thoughts

  407. heedtracker says:

    Ducan Hothersaugage’s knickers will get very twisted over this. Another extremly rude thing about their Scotland region, its a “celtic surge” apparently

    “So there are obvious reforms for Labour to pursue: an English Labour party; a referendum on an English parliament; radical devolution to cities and counties.”

    Tristram must be the most posh Labour dude ever, apart from our very own Torquil Chrichton.

    Up the workers Crispin, what ho Rupert!

    Why cant any of these poshboys just admit that the Blue tories are now more trusted than the Red tories? Another awful Crash and the Flipper legacy.

  408. yesindyref2 says:

    There’s been recently a concerted effort by Unionists to discredit the Rev, and this site. Which means of course that the Unionists have come to realise its value and would like to take it down. They also try with obvious Independence supporting posters, here, there and everywhere. They seek us here, they seek us there.

    Similarly there would be no real drive for Independence if it wasn’t for the SNP, so there’s a lot of Unionists doing their best to discredit the SNP by trying to fool people into thinking that the SNP have lost interest in Independence.

    I’m sure you wouldn’t want the Unionists to win those battles …

  409. Ken500 says:

    @ spoilt child

    Speaking of which. Some people have a lot to learn about the wee unelected (non) Greens.They will muck up and try to muck up everything and every one in the Parliament. Push their nonsense policies on everyone who don’t want them, because they say so. A small pressure group, trying to make other people’s lives as difficult as possible. .

    Thousands will be turned off. Many people can’t stand the ‘policies’ Dictates. The false flag of supporting Independence just to get votes. They renege on every ‘policy.’ They are the control freaks. Nicola should just ignore their antics.

    Stand up to Scotland – hold them to account. How many would vote for these ‘radical’ programmes? The only way Scotland will get radical policies is when Scotland gets FFA/Independence and gets control of taxation and spending. Democracy. Instead of paying more tax for Westminster policies.

    Is it Green to let some football louts bawl, shout and sing at each other and offend everyone around them. The Offences Football Law is the only thing that has every bothered them enough to make them maybe stop. The only thing that has ever bothered them.

    Is it Green to stop vulnerable children get the best support that they need.

    Is it Green to imply a ‘land grab’ That will never happen. ‘60% tax is Green. That wil never happen, No one will ever vote for it.

    No one gives a damn about Council tax. It is the way it is spent and wasted by Councils that is the problem. Just put on extra tiers. People who can’t pay – Don’t Pay. People don’t want to be filling in more forms. It’s only if Scotland gets control of tax that it could be abolished and included in income tax. Progressive income tax is more equal and fair. Tax evasion is not being enforced by the UK Gov,

    Who has have voted for any of this nonsense? Even young folk say they are speaking nonsense. Maybe support for FFA/ Independence and manipulated taxpayers time and money. Par for the green course.

    No wonder the Indy Ref had difficulties. Some of the individuals involved in the organisation. Folk were running about all over the place. Piss up at a brewery comes to mind.

    How can these unelected people have the cheek to treat voters with such comtempt. They should be affronted.

  410. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ken500 @ 23:35,

    We know already that you have a bee in your bonnet about the Greens, so what are you trying to achieve, except bore us silly while stirring up trouble in the pro-indy camp?

    The Greens may have some batty ideas, but they are not the villains you keep trying to make them out to be (including times you have tried to blame them for things they just didn’t do).

    Please, put a can in it, FFS.

  411. AhuraMazda says:

    Ian, her record in business, as you know, confirms that she couldn’t possibly give any advice worth hearing.

    If she serves as a good role model, it is only to thick people who aspire to have cosmetic surgery; and she clearly achieved that much.

  412. yesindyref2 says:

    Good catch.

    And good top ten, the only thing I’d do personally is combine 8 and 10. In the interests of survival I don’t have time for a todo list, therefore my dream is to have the time to do a todo list, it’s number one and the only one on my todo list.

    The dislike of MM because she came out for NO (contributed?) passed me by, it’s her right, her vote. What is sad is that having boosted her for anti-Indy purposes, the herald tossed her away like a bit of useless driftwood when she went down south and into the Lords.

  413. chic mcg says:

    Some observations I would make on the GE.

    Much has been made on the drop of 10% in support for the SNP between constituency and list, which is probably something like 4% more than in the past.

    However I have not seen anything on the 15% drop between constituency and list seen for Labour or the massive 33% drop in votes between constituency and list for the LibDems. Where did their votes go? Some, obviously to the Tories, presumably U-diehards voting tactically, but by no means all.

    I suppose some of the Labour support went to one of the far left options on the list, but clearly, that could not have been a lot since the Labour C-L losses were about 3-4 times the total RISE/Solidarity vote. Mysteries.

    The last observation is a even more speculative.

    The constituency vote total for the Greens if taken at face value indicate that had they stood in every consituency they may have gotten a total consituency vote of 450,000 to 500,000.

    Of course, this might be exaggerated because they may have had some information on which seats to target, they certainly would be able to concentrate their efforts on the two constituencies and there may have been a leadership factor re Patrick Harvie.
    It is impossible to know the effect of those things.

    On the other hand, it is fairly safe to say, that as a smaller party that they would not have enjoyed any measure of tactical voting in constituency elections, much more likely to be squeezed i.e. people voting tactically for one of the bigger parties.

    It is also unknown how many pro indy natural Green voters voted SNP tactically in those two constituencies even though they had a Green candidate to vote for.

    However, even with all those caveats, it seems in the absence of further information from the only 150K who voted Green on the list, that there may have been a couple of hundred thousand or more who instead voted SNP tactically on the list as well.

  414. Dr Jim says:

    They keep screaming SNP Baad in peoples faces long enough folk give in and start doing it as well

    It’s like water boarding eventually folk give up and tell you anything you want to know even if it’s wrong

    That’s how Ruthie turned around the fortunes of the Tories from a dismal 24% to a whopping great 22% by continually screaming “I am the defender of the country” when nobody was attacking it and they forgot all about her boss the Bastirt in London who never showed his face up here for fear of reminding them who she represents

    It amazes me how Willie Rennie got any votes at all when his whole campaign was based on telling folk their kids were stupid
    Labours campaign was based on the voters were stupid
    The Greens campaign was based on all the other parties are stupid but we’ll make them better

    Folk went to the polling stations and voted for these people

    The SNP campaign message was none of the above was fit to govern

    They were right! Thank God I voted for the right ones Phew!!

  415. yesindyref2 says:

    Any chance you could cut all that down a bit?

    I’d suggest just posting “#GREENSbad” every 2 or 3 hours. It saves columns, and columns make pages. Go column-green!

  416. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Ken500 – you used to post 2 inch comments made up of around half a dozen eight word sentences.

    In the past month, your posts have elongated to scrollworthy tomes, usually, as other have pointed out, decrying the Greens.

    Has someone tweaked your antennae? Are you receiving garbage instructions?

    Please, go back to your two inch posts.

    Oh, and BTW, you still haven’t address this:-

  417. cynicalHighlander says:

    @yesindyref2 @11:58

    I am waiting for the book to come out! not

  418. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Dr Jim said:

    It amazes me how Willie Rennie got any votes at all when his whole campaign was based on telling folk their kids were stupid

    It amazes me how Willie Rennie got any votes at all when his whole campaign was stupid! All that kiddy play photo-ops. It was an insult to people’s intelligence.

    But the FibDems strategy on their home turf was altogether less cuddly – to play relentlessly on people’s fear that their area was being neglected by a “central belt mafia” that supposedly wanted to suck all power to itself. (Others have already mentioned that feeling in connection with South Scotland in particular, but it was played upon elsewhere too.) The “one party state” media rhetoric was just what they needed for their very strident “divide and conquer” strategy, mendaciously stoking up out of all proportion regional feelings of discontent. Rennie’s would-be naive happy-chappy image hides a party machine that is much more calculating and unpleasant.

  419. Mitch Kilbride says:

    John Thomson suggests “the slippers” are famous. Hope they are not the ones Ross Harper abused.

  420. call me dave says:

    Hark the Herald: Ex-Scottish minister says:

    British admitted they wanted to trade Megrahi for oil

    Mundell mutters about a big deal coming?

  421. Iain More says:

    Might be the best sketch yet?

  422. Gavin Barrie says:


    As soon as I see your name on a comment, I now scroll all the way past and don’t read it. Tirades are pointless.

    Unless this is what you want, might you not want to reign it in a bit?

  423. Socrates MacSporran says:

    As a young journalist, I used to cover the local council meetings. The councillors were 100% Labour, we were a one-party district. Council meetings were generally boring, as proposals were voted through on the nod.
    However, the Council Leader assured me, the Labour Group meetings, which were held in private, were full-on, out-and-out rammies, as each councillor fought for the best for his or her constituency.
    Eventually, to stop this, they came up with a series of priorities for each item: for example:
    “We can spent £X on roads, which is the worst road in each constituency; which is the worst of these, next worst etc”. Then they worked their way down the list.
    That way, each area got its turn for the money, and, by and large, the councillors, and their constituents, accepted this. There was, however, one wee “nippy sweety” of a councillor, who always thought her area should come first – but, there is always one.
    The new Scotland will not be built in a day, but, if the SNP got their act together came up with priorities in each field – and explained this, notwithstanding the constraints placed on them by Westminster, they would take forward with them those areas such as the Borders, D&G and elsewhere which felt they were being ignored.
    Winning Independence will still be a long-term plan, so, start planning and, on each step along the way, the SNP will gather greater support.
    Mind you, there will always be nippy sweeties trying to jump the queue.

  424. Almannysbunnet says:

    Rev you deserve a well earned rest but could you leave someone in charge when you’re gone or have an auto page/topic update. Even if it is just a photo of goldfish. If you leave a topic up too long the site starts to look like the classroom when the teacher nips oot for a fag. Total chaos.
    When you go on holiday you cancel your postie so not to encourage burglars and vandals, you need a site equivalent 🙂

  425. galamcennalath says:

    call me dave says:

    “Mundell mutters about a big deal coming?”

    From the Herald article it sounds like another command that we get back into our wee box!

    Or, could it be Vow2 …. as an attempt to keep us talking for years, if we insist in not getting back in the box!

  426. Marie Clark says:

    Almannysbunnet @ 8.45, that needed saying. I think that some of the wingers just get bored, and start either winding other folk up, or have a pop at others.

    Gonnae no dae that guys, and it is mainly guys. Maybe it’s a bit of fun to you, but it gets as boring as hell for the rest of us.

    As Almannysbunnet says, ” if you leave a topic up too long, the site starts to look like a classroom when the teacher nips oot for a fag. Total chaos”.

    Noo behave and play nice.

  427. One_Scot says:

    ‘Mundell mutters about a big deal coming?’

    But, but.., I thought that the ‘Devo Max, Home Rule etc, etc, Vow’ had been delivered in full according to the Daily Record and associated Yoons.

    Wait a minute, I’m beginning to get the feeling they’ve been telling us porkies again. Who’d have thought.

  428. Ken500 says:

    The site maybe does become deluted but it gives Rev Stu a rest. A well earned rest and it keeps the site going. Rev Stu has done so much for the cause, more than any other. It keeps the function and going. Even better it let’s folk get things off their chest. Metaphorically speaking.

    Thanks a billion Rev Stu. You are magnificent. Simply the best. Better than all the rest. Have a good rest.

  429. Ken500 says:

    The non bomb scare. The price of them

  430. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Allysmanny
    @ Marie

    And if Wingers dont reply to the classroom Idiot,he would soon lose intrest & move to another school, mibbee,s the pitch an Tosser school.

  431. Meindevon says:

    @Almannysbunnet 8.45

    Totally agree…it always happens. Can’t the offenders go ‘off topic’ to swing their handbags?

    Also, please, please go off topic with tennis results as some of us record to watch later if we are out and then end up knowing the result!! Grrr!

  432. galamcennalath says:

    One_Scot says:

    “Devo Max, Home Rule etc, etc, Vow’ had been delivered …they’ve been telling us porkies again”

    I find it all utterly astonishing. They really think our heads have zips on the back.

    2013 no DevoMax question on ballot
    2013 “no Devo discussion until after you vote NO”
    2014 “DevoMax if you vote NO”
    2014 EVEL announced 19th Sept
    2015 Smith ignores everyone but Yoon parties
    2015 Smith Lite / DevoBu99erAll
    2015 “we’ve delivered DevoMax”
    2016 SNP amendments voted down
    2016 attempt to screw Scotland financially
    2016 “let’s talk DevoMax”

  433. Ken500 says:

    If you don’t like comments do not read them. Simple. It’s call freedom of choice and speech Unless everyone is expected to get back in their box.

    This is the only site that gives Independence supporters that opportunity. That is why it is so successful and keeps going, folk fund it to have their say. Pure genius It will never be reigned in.
    Everyone a right to their say. There is enough bias censorship. Stopping information and undermining democracy.

  434. ronnie anderson says:

    Mitch & me are leaving Clacktoll campsite heading to a camp site just before Banff for another nite of camping with the wee Trailer Tent, Wings poster taped to the back of the Trailer getting lots of looky’s.

    Banff links campsite, should any Wingers passing by drop in for a coffee.

  435. HandandShrimp says:

    Mundell’s big offer is what exactly?

    Reading the article it seems to be simply that the UK Government will work with Holyrood for the betterment of Scotland….call me old fashioned but I kind of thought that was their job anyway.

    I may be wrong but I don’t think there is any more substance to Mundell’s statement than that. I seriously doubt it means a Scotland Bill 2 or even anything remotely like it.

    Obviously it is nice to be nice.

  436. Glamaig says:


    if this the new constitutional deal as recently talked about in that well known home of democracy, the Lords, you can bet your bottom dollar it will superficially look lovely and shiny, but be designed to make it harder to achieve independence.

  437. Dave Robb says:

    As an ex-teacher I agree that when the teacher leaves the room, anarchy can be the result even from the best pupils.

    Rather than ill-disciplined shouting, descending into abuse it might be good for everyone to shut up for a couple of days and refocus on the task.

    There is no perfect electoral system that will deliver victory without requiring 50%+ of voters – that’s why FPTP is bad. The recent vote gave results close to the % of votes cast, and showed that “gaming” can work in constituencies, but not so well in regional lists.

    If you’re not happy that your side didn’t “win”, it sounds like special pleading to tweak/change the system to produce the result you want. Get the public to vote for your principles instead – forget “ah but, what might have been the result if….” .

    I have political beliefs and hopes other than independence. I have no issue with Greens, industrialists, radical left, right independistas, tall, short, pro -or anti Trident – AS LONG AS THEY ARE CAMPAIGNING FOR INDEPENDENCE.

    We can decide these issues once we have the power to do so. By all means have your view and take your stance and vote for the pro-independence party of your choice – or for the one you feel is best placed to deliver. Don’t slag others for their choice.

    There is support for Independence across the South – particularly in the towns such as Gala and Hawick (even villages like Walkerburn) where the “Yes” vote was close to 50%. Stop the slagging and negativity, try support and persuasion, tackle the sense of isolation by better targetted policy.

    Leave the football to the Rev and the tabloids.

    If you think the “Nameless One” is a troll don’t respond – however clever you think you are. The easiest way for me to deal with a wind-up merchant in a class was to get the other pupils to ignore him (nearly always a “him”, followed in good time by isolation.

    A rant -sorry, but I intend no further comment on this thread.

  438. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    16 May, 2016 at 9:55 am
    One_Scot says:

    That list of The Vow shyste, then the Scotland bill farce, then their relentless full on Vow delivered bullshit rather undermines the clever title of the satire up there.

    Wiki says

    “Dentatus is supposed to have been incorruptible and frugal; the story was that when the Samnites sent ambassadors with expensive gifts in an attempt to influence him in their favor, they found him sitting by the hearth roasting turnips. He refused the gifts, saying that he preferred ruling the possessors of gold over possessing it himself”

    UKOK ambassadors sent by our chums in the south only bring pretendy expensive gifts, like UKOK chancer Fluffie Mundell, today offering lots of lovely things, if we just shut up and go away, but as usual its fcuk all.

  439. Petra says:

    @ Almannysbunnet says at 8:45 am …. ”Rev you deserve a well earned rest but could you leave someone in charge when you’re gone or have an auto page/topic update. Even if it is just a photo of goldfish. If you leave a topic up too long the site starts to look like the classroom when the teacher nips oot for a fag. Total chaos. When you go on holiday you cancel your postie so not to encourage burglars and vandals, you need a site equivalent :-)”

    Yeah things seem to be unravelling on here even although some half-decent people have made an effort to hold it together. It’s been a bit of an eye opener in fact to see that it’s not ‘trolls’ that are doing the damage, in the main, but veterans of this site seemingly intent in undoing Stu’s (and others) good works: No doubt losing us support on an hourly basis.

    With so many enemies and so much going on around us, and in the World in general, the focus seems to be on constantly analysing what happened last week and playing the blame game. Falling into the Unionist trap and how they must love it …. be laughing their heads off at some of the comments on here.

    Let’s all move on and get some information out there. The type of information that will hopefully influence people to vote Yes in future.

    In saying that I’m really missing Nana’s input. Has anyone heard from her? Well I hope. Maybe taking a wee, well-deserved break too?

  440. Capella says:

    @ Ken500 – I usually like your posts – EXCEPT – when you say things that are patently untrue, long diatribes even, sometimes bordering on actionable. That brings the site into disrepute.

    Otherwise, as you say, freedom of speech is important. It’s Stu’s site he can block or allow as he thinks best.

    And I don’t think you are subtle enough to be a troll!

  441. Robert Peffers says:

    @call me dave says: 16 May, 2016 at 1:04 am:

    “British admitted they wanted to trade Megrahi for oil”

    Yes, Dave, but we all knew that anyway and please archive all Herald links as we do NOT want to finance them by going to their site.

    “Mundell mutters about a big deal coming?

    As usual the Secretary of State against Scotland is less than truthful as are the Herald mis-reporters.

    The claim that Westminster retains the sovereignty over Scotland with power to prevent a referendum is out and out lies.

    This is not easy to explain briefly but the facts are plain. Sorry they are so long and involved.

    English/UK legal facts prove they have no such powers.

    The UK operates under the English legal system – except in Scotland. Here are the indisputable facts.

    In 1284 the Kingdom of England legally, (under the then English law of Divine Right of Kings), annexed the principality of Wales with, “The Statute of Rhuddlan”. They then imposed English Law of Divine Right”, upon their Welsh region. This English law still applies in Wales today.

    In 1542 the Kingdom of England annexed all Ireland with, “The Crown of Ireland Act”, again under the Divine Right of Kings law. They imposed English law upon all Ireland.

    However, The Republic of Ireland has subsequently seen the formation of the Republic of Ireland that their English legal system does not apply to.

    In 1603 the King of Scots, (note he was NOT the King of Scotland), as under Scottish law then and now, the people, are sovereign.

    Thus from 1603 until 1706/7 the only two remaining British Kingdoms remained independent although their two crowns rested upon the same persons head.

    The reason there could be no United Kingdom was entirely due to the King of Scots not being sovereign in Scotland.

    Thus by inheriting the throne of the Kingdom of England the monarch could not follow the law of England that until 1688 remained, “The Divine Right of Kings”.

    With divine right a monarch who defeated another monarch, inherited a crown or married into another kingdom just tagged their new acquisition onto their existing kingdom.

    If Scotland had still been under the law of, “Divine Right”, James VI would have declared England, Wales & all Ireland as part of his existing Kingdom of Scotland but he was not a sovereign monarch in Scotland. Which is why he moved himself and his royal household to the three country Kingdom of England where he was sovereign.

    He spent the rest of his life attempting to form a United Kingdom. He failed to do so. Which is why the English needed to force Scotland to sign up to a Treaty of Union in 1706/7.

    This followed the big changes of English law that came about due to the English, “Glorious Revolution”, of 1688. It was the Parliament of England in revolution against the monarchy of the Kingdom of England which was still under Devine Right of Kings.

    However, under English law, there is an important part of English law that states, “Once becoming sovereign, a sovereign cannot renounce their sovereignty, for the basic reason that they are sovereign”.

    That placed the revolting Parliament of England in a, “Catch 22”, situation. They had resisted becoming part of the Kingdom of Scotland under the Divine Right legal system but were now deposing the monarch who also wore the crown of Scotland.

    Thing is as the monarch of England was sovereign in England but not in Scotland, that monarch could not legally renounce their monarchy. As Scottish monarchs are not sovereign the monarch had no legal power to renounce Scottish Monarchy.

    That meant the revolting parliament could not become a republic which would have been the logical thing to do when deposing a monarch.

    Their get-out was to force King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange to remain as the legal head of state for the Kingdom of England but to legally delegate their Royal Devine right to the Parliament of England.

    Thus, in 1688 the Kingdom of England’s three countries became, “A Constitutional Monarchy”.

    This left the English Parliament with a big dilemma. As the deposed English Monarch was still the independent King of Scots, what were they to do about the still independent Kingdom of Scotland where there was now a Jacobite Uprising against the new English monarchy.

    So they began a campaign against what they called, “The Jacobite Rebellion”, but that term was utter rubbish for the still independent Scots could not be rebelling against a monarchy not their own.

    That so called Rebellion began in 1688 and was still being fought against in the Battle of Culloden on 16 April 1746.
    Yet the Treaty Of Union had been signed, under threats and blackmail, in 1n 1706/7. Do the sums. 1746-1706=40 years.

    How come they are still fighting a war they term a rebellion against an English Monarchy in Scotland 40 years after a Treaty of Union that states the Scottish people remain sovereign?

    In this battle the Jacobite forces of Charles Edward Stuart were decisively defeated by English loyalist troops commanded by William Augustus, Duke of Cumberland, near Inverness in the Scottish Highlands.

    Thing is it is the English version of history and the legal King of Scotland was actually Prince Charlie as Scotland was still an independent Kingdom when the English Parliament deposed the King of England and had no legal powers to depose the monarch of Scotland?

    What’s more, under that same Treaty of Union, the Parliament at Westminster still does not have the legal powers to overrule the sovereign people of Scotland’s sovereignty and, under their own English laws, the people of Scotland cannot legally renounce their sovereignty. Which may explain why they have never been asked to do so.

    So there you go. The fact is that English law prevents sovereigns from renouncing their sovereignty simply by being sovereign. The Treaty of Union took account of this as Scottish law in that treaty remains independent.

    Thus as the people of Scotland are recognised as being sovereign and cannot renounce their sovereignty, (indeed they have never been legally asked to), then English law, and English parliamentary sovereignty, cannot overrule the sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

    If the people of Scotland want a referendum they cannot legally be prevented from doing so under both Scottish and English/UK laws.

  442. Ken500 says:


    #(non)Greensbad, ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    #(non)Greensbad. A pantomime. They support louts and civil disobedience, ‘60%’ tax rate, implied ‘land grab’, nonsense policies, tell lies, waste £Million/Billions of public money which could be better spent, don’t support democracy. Muck up people’s lives and try and make people’s lives more difficult. Talk nonsense and put people off voting for FFA/Independence, which is the only way to bring radical change in Scotland.

    The Tory tax evading non impartial Royals are illegally breaking the Law and giving children/people stress/worry and mental health problems. . Cold, worried, hungry vulnerable people can’t sleep get sick and develop mental health problems. Illegal wars, banking Fraud have bankrupted Britain. The Tory, non impartial, tax evadingRoyals support illegal wars and banking fraud. Too many people with additional needs are in prison. Too many people with drink/drug issues are in prison instead of being in proper ‘total abstinence’ counselling rehab. It is cheaper and more cost affective.

    Minger, Osbourne, Balls. They all make people poorer. They are responsible for all the UK’s problem. They have bankrupted Britain. A total stitch up. The disgusting face of corrupt Westminster. They are the conspiracy. All in it for themselves. The are the problem. Not the EU.

  443. AhuraMazda says:

    I don’t watch much BBC Scotland News but every time I do I detect bias in favour of Brexit. It isn’t as obvious as the anti-SNP stuff generally but Im not imagining it. For the past 2 weeks I have been wondering about that and the question of why BBC Scotland seems more in favour of Brexit than BBC England.

    Most of us assumed that the BBC as a whole would be a central plank of the pro-EU “Stay In” campaign. Down South it definitely is. During our referendum campaign, in 2014, I thought there was a bit of a difference between BBC Scotland and Head Office, with BBC Scotland taking a much harder and more scathing anti-Scottish stance, there definitely was at times, but there wasn’t much in it.

    I suppose we all assumed that the BBC would be equally if not more harmonised on the issue of Europe, but why? BBC Scotland is a branch office but branch offices do have some autonomy and room for manoeuvre. And if you think about it, the core values of people who work at BBC Scotland are bound to show through on Europe just as they do over the question of Scottish independence.

    It seems obvious to me that the core values of BBC Scotland’s Unionist staff are probably going to be very pro-British. There’s a subtle difference between pro-British and anti-Scottish which we at the receiving end would naturally struggle to see — when you get bludgeoned by a guy with a baseball bat it’s hard to see past the immediate idea that the guy doing it simply hates you — but if you follow it through it makes sense to consider that they love Britain just as much as they hate Scottish Independence.

    In the same way that pro-Unionists in Northern Ireland are very pro-British, more British than the British themselves, is it possible that the same core Pro-British values are in evidence up here in Scotland across the whole Scottish establishment including the BBC? That we struggle to see it because we are immersed in our struggle and their sharp opposition to us? That’s an interesting question.

    British Nationalism as a philosophy has xenophobia and racism at its core so that it follows that someone who was a British Nationalist would think quite favourably of something like say the British Empire and negatively about stuff like The EU, immigrants, and foreigners generally. That would all vary in degrees from individual to individual but it makes sense and if you were filling jobs at BBC Scotland you would probably fill them with people who were pro-British and possibly even British Nationalists. It would be easy to filter for those core values.

    Of course, there could be other reasons or I could be imaging everything. There could even be an evil demon tampering with my mind.

  444. Ken500 says:

    Some people chose to live in a bubble. The Official Secrets cover up. Keep the facts locked up.

    To keep people out of prison. There is a need to understand people’s special needs and proper counselling, total abstinence rehab. There is a link between crime – drink and drugs. Most (violent) crime is committed by (16) 18-24 year old males under the influence of drink/drugs. Usually against each other. ‘The drink’s in the wit’s oot’. There are too many vulnerable people with additional needs who are not understood and they abd their families do not get the proper support in society. People on the spectrum. Teachers should get proper training in special needs. it would help all children.

    #(non)Greensbad. @ ‘ Named person’ for vulnerable children/people.

    Thatcher -care in the community – Prison

  445. Ken500 says:


    Some people are naive and would rather hug trees, watch bunnies jumping, pigs copulating and watch dark clouds forming. The forces of darkness. The rain after the sunshine. Don’t rein on the parade and don’t resist democracy. Open the eyes, the mind and Open up the books. Let the scales fall away and balance up the books.

  446. Chic McGregor says:


    Did I just hear a light bulb being switched on?

    SLABBC are working on the delta between Scotland and England for several reasons.

    1) Generally, any divergence must be worked on to help maintain the no difference mythos.

    2) Avoid Scotland votes remain UK votes leave Scottish indy referendum trigger.

    3) Avoid UK votes remain England votes leave English indy referendum trigger.(Less likely of course).

    4) Best SLABBC scenario, both vote to remain and no room for a fag paper between them.

    5) Next best SLABBC scenario, both vote to leave and no room for a fag paper between them.

    In all cases, the task is to work on that higher remain figure in Scotland shown in polls.

  447. Capella says:

    @ Ken500
    I think the “balance up the books” falls a bit flat. Otherwise it’s quite poetic. Try rephrasing it in verse libre or stanzas e.g.

    Some are naive and love to hug trees,
    Some watch bunnies jumping,
    Some breed pigs (and cows and ducks)
    Some watch dark clouds forming.

    Watch out for the forces of darkness.
    Here comes the rain after sunshine.
    Don’t rain on my parade
    don’t resist democracy.

    Open your eyes and your mind
    and Open up the books.
    Let the scales fall away
    and balance up the books.

  448. gus1940 says:

    One of the first things this new parliament should do is get rid of this ‘Presiding Officer’ nonsense and give the post its correct name as used by legislatures the world over – namely ‘Speaker’.

    The SNP did it OK when they gave us ‘Scottish Goverment’ in 2007 so I can’t see why they can’t do it with ‘Speaker’.

  449. Paula Rose says:

    @ Capella that’s lovely that is – such a good suggestion!

  450. gus1940 says:

    Re Spaceport – wherever Branson decides to launch his Virgin Galactic will not be a proper spaceport as all he is doing is a modern version of what NASA did in the 50s and 60s with the X15 – namely a sub-orbital hop.

    Anybody who talks of launching satellites or any other orbital or extra orbital vehicles is talking nonsense as Prestwick or any other UK site is too far from the Equator.

    The reason NASA use Cape C, The Russians use Kazakhatan and The French use French Guiana is because they are as near as possible within their territory to The Equator and anybody who knows anything about Geography knows that the earth’s rotational speed is at its maximum at The Equator.

    This gives any launch vehicle the maximum possible free slingshot necessary to achieve the speed of 18000mph needed to get into orbit.

  451. Capella says:

    @ Paula Rose – Merci beaucoups. It is not very polished but I’m sure if Ken worked at it he could produce some great material. Sadly, I don’t think Stu likes poetry so ironically he would probably be banned for poems but not for rants!

  452. Paula Rose says:

    @Capella I’m sure as long as Ken500 keeps them short and sweet – no more than four verses then the Rev won’t mind.

  453. AhuraMazda says:

    Chic McGregor says:”Did I just hear a light bulb being switched on?”

    Odd that you say “hear” instead of “see” when light promote visibility. But I haven’t heard or seen anyone else on here discussing this.

    I like your reason 3 a lot. Would that result in an English IndyRef trigger in the same way that the SNP are saying the reverse would up here?

    In other words, if the UK votes remain by a small margin which hinges on the Scottish vote, would England be looking for an Independence Referendum on the basis that they don’t want Scotland dictating their future?

    The likely scenario right now is that the English vote to remain and we do too — with, as you hint at, little difference between the split up here compared to the split down there.

    If SLABBC are trying to manipulate that outcome then they are playing with fire. I have a feeling this Euro thing is going to surprise us and lead to a summer of fun for all.

    I suppose in total you are agreeing though, Scottish BBC seem to be promoting Brexit. As I said, I haven’t heard or seen anyone say that here or elsewhere.

  454. yesindyref2 says:

    @Ken500 “#(non)Greensbad”


    Now according to some censors, we should all shut up and eat our cereal. Behave you naughty boy. The forum censors will go smackie smackie, or write your postings for you in the exact way and format they’d like.

  455. Fred says:

    @ Gus1940, the Old Scots Parliament was uni-cameral & presided over by a Chancellor, why slavishly copy Westminster with a Speaker? Chancellor MacIntosh would love that for a start. 🙂

  456. Fred says:

    Anent, the problem of the inner city doughnut phenomenon, Thatcher apparently considered razing Liverpool to the ground. Presumably the resultant Scouse diaspora were expected to love the Tories in time & somewhere not Liverpool.

    How anybody can make excuses for others voting Tory is quite beyond my comprehension or that people in places where they should know better, vote for “The Man” not the party, is bollox. How do they explain Mundell?

    I was born very young & raised to believe that the only good Tory was a deid yin! nothing I’ve experienced in life since has persuaded me to the contrary.

  457. K1 says:

    Aye Fred, being born very young is always a challenge… 😉

    And also aye anent Tories…Mundell can’t be explained, he’s some sorta ‘glitch’ in the Scottish matrix. Some matrixes do ‘ave ’em…

  458. Ken500 says:


    Naive The (non)Greens supporters have a lot to learn. A contradiction in term. You can’t tell an old duck to lay eggs, Give it six months and they will be sqealing like pigs of how unfair the system has become.

    The cookoos in the nest will be doing their best to ruin the Scottish economy, with everyone of their nonsense policies. Mock away all you like suckers.The joke will be on you. All the vulnerable will suffer because they don’t care. Jump in their bandwagon and you will be messing in your own nest.

    They have got into position in opposition by cheating , lying and colluding with the cheating and lying MSM hypocrites.Before long they will be even more despised.

    The (non) Greens lose the Indy Ref. They will try and wreck IndyRef 2. The majority do not support their policies, for good reason. They could wreck the economy. Moderate voters who would supporter FFA/Independence are totally turned off by their ‘policies’. They will not vote for it for it because of their involvement. The necessary majority. Far from helping their presence is damaging the Independence Movement. The SNP will have to distance themselves from the (non)Green policies or suffer for it. Their presence in the YES group Organisation of some of the (non) Green members let it down. Their skill and any talent are totally lacking. A recipe for failure. That will not happen again.

    The appalling (non)Greens betray the principles they haven’t got and ally with Unionist at every opportunity. They think they are being smart but just opportunist.They just like the rest of the Unionists are destroying their own Parties. Stop being naive and hanging on to the SNP. They will just be thrown off like water off a ducks back.

    For clarity McNeil and Hosie have let down their families, their position and their Party. The should think again and consider their position. The cause or the fringe benefits. Best wishes to those who have taken a fall because of their behaviour.

  459. Fred says:

    @ Ken 500, For clarity, this is none of your business, don’t be such a fuckin sweetie-wife, sterrheid gossip!

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