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Wings Over Scotland

The flying visit

Posted on July 25, 2020 by

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  1. 25 07 20 08:56

    The flying visit | speymouth

280 to “The flying visit”

  1. Lollysmum says:

    It was a Spoonerism Chris. Meant to be read as ‘mere shite’ & that is a description for everything relating to UK Gov.

  2. Helena Brown says:

    Let them eat Baxters Soup, we haven’t since 2014, Mackies ice cream, Tunnocks tea cakes, they lie on the shelf gathering dust for us.
    Lollysmum, got that right.

  3. Steambam says:

    Nailed it Chris. Beautiful summary of Back-door Boris’ flying visit.

  4. Walter Jones says:

    Boris was struggling the other day trying to explain what was the benefits for Scotland being in this Union.

    He blurted out a few meaningless reasons, including one that our Covid19 testing centres are run by his English Army.

    As if to say an independent Scotland couldn’t organise a Covid19 testing centre.

    As has been mentioned before,

    England offers Scotland NOTHING except heartache and depression.

    Get moving Sturgeon.

  5. defo says:

    The years haven’t been kind to Audrey.

    The flying visit didn’t fool anyone, Yoon included.

  6. Effijy says:

    Boris is as watered down as Baxter’s soup.

    Boris- How lucky are the Scots that I know how to take all their resources
    and Lauren them with debt.

    Again how lucky for Scotland that the Scottish Army Regiments that Scotland
    Pays for actually did something for Scotland?

    Stop it Boris you are ruining us.
    Yes ruining us!

    PS Come back soon and mutter crap like that as you hide in isolated corners.
    Nothing more positive on the Independence campaign.

  7. Orri says:

    Come to Scotland. Mention you control the finances. Mention control the army. Tell us you’re not interested in hearing our current opinion.

    That’s going to work.

  8. Effijy says:

    This Covid Virus coming under control has now hit 16 Million now.
    It’s only taking 5 days to add another million.

    Still outbreaks in China and very well managed countries like Norway and Australia, etc.

    The virus is around 9 months old now and reaping more damage than ever before.

    Boris will guide England on to new depths as he bungled all options before him.

  9. Ottomanboi says:

    Welcome to the ‘new normal’.
    As well as having two sexes human beings are social creatures. In the land of Covidistan both are under threat.
    Read the Machine Stops by E.M.Forster. Chillingly prophetic.
    Never thought much of Baxters soups. Does Nicola eat them? Unionism in every spoonful.

  10. There are hundreds of human beings dying in England every day from the virus and nobody seems to give a sh@t,

    what the f@ck is happening down there and where are the media/journalists that should be exposing how England landed itself in such a catastrophic mess in dealing with Covid,

    they need help down there desperately and all they seem to care about is bloody fitba.

  11. Ottomanboi says:

    Do wish the Covid coffin chasers would give it a rest or see a psychiatrist.
    These suckers for case and mortality data, data whose collection methodology therefore reliability is questionable, are stooges of officialdom.
    What do they want? Mass paranoia? The end of humanity? If so they are doing a splendid job.
    I and my generation would like their life back.

  12. Bob Mack says:


    who’s stopping you going anywhere just now?

  13. Achnababan says:

    Like it Chris but in ‘Sturgeon’s Kingdom’ TWATT is a baanned word!

  14. Achnababan says:

    Like it Chris but in ‘Sturgeon’s Kingdom’ TWATT is a banned word!

  15. Contrary says:

    Education time guys and gals!!

    Richard Muphy is doing a series of short explanatory You Tube videos on a huge variety of macro-economic subjects. Macro economics is different from the micro (say, your accounts or household budgeting) – they are all based on MMT – which only describes HOW the economies of currency-issuing governments and countries actually work, it’s not something new except in that many many people, included economists, don’t think that’s how it works – but it is, and because it is, it makes sense.

    Getting a broad understanding of how macro-economics works is not the same as learning about finances or numbers (accounting!) or markets – it is the overarching way in which governments control and use money, what your taxes actually are – you will understand how much PISH we are fed by politicians and the MSM, you will understand how unnecessary austerity is – and how harmful it is – and most of all, you will understand how things like government ‘debt’ is NOT an argument against independence – all those currency and deficit and debt arguments fall to dust IF Scotland has its own currency and central bank. Here is Richard Murphy talking about government debt – it is actually the money in your pocket, YOUR savings (as well as a few other things), find out here:

    I estimate that if you watch a random selection of 10 of these short clips – while keeping on open mind – you will start to get the broad understanding many of us will need. Austerity politics and lies about debt and deficit and taxes and spending, need to be kicked into the long grass and politicians won’t do it themselves – get educated and start putting pressure on them!

    Stephanie Kelton – any of her presentations or her book ‘The Deficit Myth’ – are good for getting an understanding, she has good ways of explaining things – for a longer read or watch.

    Richard Murphy’s videos are extremely low budget – his backdrop is really crying out for some cartoons or diagrams – but he’s producing them at a fast rate. He said he has recorded one on the Scottish pound and/or the Euro (I couldn’t tell which it is) which should be published soon – so get yourself up to speed on some of the basics before then!

    Honestly, it is doable – I have zero understanding of financy stuff taxes or accounting (in fact, you might be better off without it?) – and I can understand it, because it makes sense, because it just describes what is happening right now in the real world.

  16. Effijy says:

    Thanks Ottoman

    The world can sleep easy now you and Trump have assured
    Everyone the virus is just a fake.

    Sone of those Hundred’s of Thousands who have died and are dying
    Might just be up for an Oscar as their acting dead is world class.


  17. schrodingers cat says:


    bit rich coming from a country which enforces full face coverings on women even when there is no virus

    enforcing face coverings is an infringement of human liberties, but only if you are male?

  18. @Ottomanboi,

    120 human beings dead from Covid in England yesterday,all with family and friends and nearing 50,000 citizens in total,

    have some compassion not just for the deceased but for those family and friends that seen them suffer so much at their ultimate end.

  19. Willie says:

    The cartoon epitomises precisely the Toxic Turd and his visit to Scotland.

    Prime Minister of the mighty world leading busted flush they call Grande Britanne the Turd flies into one of the remotest and least populated areas in Scotland and as far away from Edinburgh as you can get. Like the cowering wimp that he is, the Turd does a brief photo shoot with a handful of tame fishermen before then flying to an RAF base at Lossiemouth for another tame set photo piece.

    And that is basically it folks. The Turd crept in and crept out with his actions showing that he is a craven coward, a wimp.If ever England deserved a creep as a Prime Minister then the Turd is it.

    And you know what, we all know it.

  20. schrodingers cat says:

    Dr Philippa Whitford @Dr_PhilippaW·7m
    Most research into droplet transmission has suggested at least some protection for the wearer from #Facecoverings

    Pah, top surgeons, who needs them when you have heaps of winger anti maskers who are obviously more qualified.

  21. J Galt says:

    Scott Finlayson@8.52am

    No there aren’t Scott.

    England has a wider measure of what is a “Covid” death.

    There is no test for Covid-19, indeed Covid-19 has not yet been isolated. The “test” looks for material which indicates you have anti-bodies which MAY indicate you have been exposed to Covid-19, however it could also indicate you have been exposed to another severe flu like virus. Not only that, the “test” has a huge false positive rate.

    So an 85 year old in a care home tests “positive” 3 months ago whilst undergoing cancer therapy, unfortunately the therapy fails and the person dies a natural death from cancer, in England that death is recorded as a “Covid Death”.

    Indeed if the person had recovered from the cancer and had gone to the shops and was run over by a bus – that would be recorded as a “Covid Death”.

    Or if the person collapsed with a stroke and died – “Covid Death”.

    In Scotland we have a time limit – I believe 28 days – therefore fewer “Covid Deaths”.

    Nicola must be kicking herself.

    On this basis our way of life has been turned upside down, the economy destroyed and millions made unemployed – including me.

    It is over – it was over by the end of May – and yet our venal politicians are nursing it along until the winter when the usual winter viruses will be the excuse for more misery.

    Why they are doing this one can only guess.

    It is clear to anybody of intelligence that this is no longer a medical event but a social engineering and economic reset event.

  22. SOG says:

    I hope Baxters comment soon, or I shan’t be visiting their factory shop.

    They have a hill to climb though, with Boris avoiding the public on his second visit to Scotland, and the rest. I feel sorry for the employees, though.

  23. Jeezo 50 years ago today,

    this will cheer you up,

  24. J Galt says:

    Schrodinger’s Cat@9.44am

    The advice for most of the time including from the WHO was that masks should not be worn by healthy persons.

    The committee of the WHO in charge of mask advice have openly said they were pressured to change that advice because of political pressure ie not pressure from medical experts, pressure from politicians.

    The mask diktat is political.

  25. Willie says:

    And did anyone look at the picture of the Toxic Turd and his entourage queuing as they enter the Baxter Soup’s old shop.

    Not a mask in sight as all social distancing thrown to the wind. A total and utter disregard for the health message and it seems a disregard for the law. Clearly the Turd has learned nothing since his brush with death.

    And not one MSM outlet has picked up on this, but yes, the Turd and his team could well have negligently spread Covid in the Baxter Soup premises. A cough in your soup Mrs Baxter? Ah that’ll be fine Prime Minister, it will ad£ to the taste.

    I wonder if Boris even washes his hands after he goes for a shite. With behaviour like this it would seem patently not. He’s a dirty clart.

    Link to photo of the non socially distanced unmasked coteries as the enter the zBaxter shop under noted.

  26. schrodingers cat says:


    no, dont tell me, you read that in the daily mail?

    i prefer to take advice from qualified experts rather than goon anti maskers on wings

    “you can calculate the curvature all you want, but that just makes you look desperate”


  27. J Galt says:

    Schrodinger’s Cat@9.44am

    Dr Whitford is indeed a qualified medical person, however she is also a politician. Which one was speaking?

  28. J Galt says:

    Dear Dear Schrodinger you’re getting desperate my man!

  29. Effijy says:

    Baxter’s are struggling as few see £1.20 as good value for
    10p’s worth of blended peas and water.

    I believe the daughter is running the business and taking it downhill fast.

    I did use some of their soups over many years but it became obvious
    That more and more water was being added to maintain profit margins.

    I won’t be buying their products, like so many others but I’m sure Boris
    Will thank their right wing supporters there with a non disclosure agreement
    Covid Cockaleekie Anti Virus soup.

  30. Dorothy Devine says:

    Scott , thanks for that , it fair cheered me up!

    Willie , I stopped buying Baxters , Tunnocks , Mackie’s and any other ‘big’ business that threatened its workforce prior to our referendum.

    I will continue so to do regardless of some witless wonder of a Tory.

    I also noted the lack of masks and distancing so maybe it will be ‘ would you like some coronavirus with your can of soup?’

  31. J Galt says:

    @Schrodinger’s Cat

    “I prefer to take my advice from qualified experts rather than goon anti maskers on Wings”

    Same here, for instance from Dr Sucharit Bhakdi, one of the most cited medical experts in Germany, former Head of the Institute of Medical Microbiology at the Johannes Gutenberg University of Mainz – as “expert” as you can get.

    See his open letter to Angela Merkel.

    If you don’t know his views on Covid-19 and the responses to it then you are ignorant of the subject.

  32. schrodingers cat says:

    J Galt says:
    Dear Dear Schrodinger you’re getting desperate my man!


    lol, at the very moment that anti maskers are veiwed by the vast majority of scots as crackpots and reduced to two old men and a dug shivering in a phone box.

    ps you forgot to tell everyone about the goat me ol’ fruit

  33. Bob Mack says:

    Covid is identifiable by pathology,as is flu or any other myriad of infectikns. That’s why you have blood tests ,swabs etc. I reckon most of those given that diagnosis would have died of that cause.

    Doctors usually get it right.(emphasis on usually)

  34. Ian Brotherhood says:

    People ‘sheltering’ from the bug are entitled to apply for a food box if they have bother getting out and about and maybe don’t have anyone to do it for them.

    One of the maw-in-law’s neighbours applied and gets a weekly delivery. It has stuff like (very) long-life bread (exp Feb 2021?!), packets of pasta and rice, a wee bar of soap, but mostly tinned food, like meatballs, beans, chick peas, tuna and so on. He and his his missus don’t like most of the stuff or already have enough so they give to the other neighbours, including maw-in-law, who in turn takes what she thinks she can use, then gives the remainder to us. We’ll probably end up giving most of it to a food bank although the dog has asked that we hang on to the tinned meatballs.

    Oh, and soup. There’s lot of soup, all different flavours but mostly Scotch Broth and Cock-a-Leekie.

    Can you guess which brand?

  35. Stuart MacKay says:

    Lots of nice touches in that cartoon. I particularly like the wooden sword with the rounded tip – clearly the work of a professional professional.

  36. schrodingers cat says:

    Dr Sucharit Bhakdi, microbiologist and infectious disease epidemiologist, formerly of Mainz University Germany


    much loved by alien conspiracy theorists and alt right christian flat earthers and recently removed from his post in Mainz University after a nervous breakdown. currently on a whirlwind tour of orange lodges across europe in the company of david icke

    now also much liked by wings anti maskers, anti vaxers and believers in the end of the world.

    while in other news, the mask regulations are being observed by almost 100% of scots.

    there are of course exceptions

    Exclusive: A salon owner in Fife has told customers and staff they do not need to wear face masks as he believes he has proof coronavirus does not exist

    A Fife hairdresser has made face masks non-compulsory – despite government rules that clearly state face coverings are mandatory for “close-contact” retail industries including hairdressing – claiming that he has proof coronavirus does not exist.

    Salon owner Brent Burnett told Edinburgh Live he had evidence that coronavirus was a ‘hoax’, and part of a conspiracy to sow division in society.

    He shared multiple links to conspiracy theory posts online that claim to disprove the existence of COVID-19.

    Burnett referred Edinburgh Live to a “Committee 300”, an internet conspiracy theory about a supposed committee founded by the British aristocracy which controls politics, finance and the media.

    He added: “Take me to court. Coronavirus is a cover up for the 5g rollout. What kind of society are we living in when money is all that matters? We think we are free but will never be free. The banker always wins as they say.

    “What’s the alternative? All rushing out to get vaccinations every so often. Which haven’t even had enough time for clinical trials. I won’t be getting one that’s for sure Mr Gates.”

    He continued: “Ask yourself why the Eskimos have never heard of cancer. Or how about putting mercury in our mouths at the dentist. Does no one know it’s toxic? Your brain is connected by loads of nerves to your teeth. Metal is poison. Alzheimer’s is caused by amalgam fillings. What kind of society are we living in?”

    “Also no mention of the alien craft found in USA last night. Is that because our big news is the queen steeping down?”

    Burnett also said if he was fined for contravening coronavirus regulations he would simply forward them to this committee.

    As well as cutting regular clients hair, Glenwood Salon also supports customers who have special needs or who are struggling financially. They donate vouchers for hair cuts to the local food bank and have adapted the salon space to suit all customers, such as Sensory Sundays where lighting and noise are reduced for adults and children with autism.

    In a post on Facebook, the Glenwood Salon told customers that masks would not be mandatory and clients would only have to wear one if they wanted to.

    He said staff would also not be wearing a mask.

    looks like you’re in good company galt

    next up the Arachibutyrophobiacs revenge

  37. Joe says:

    When it comes to this COVID-19 business im trying to think of a way to put my own perspective across without upsetting folk who are less skeptical of the narrative than I.

    The best I can think of is this:

    There is a mantra in the world of politics and power – ‘Never let a crisis go to waste’.

    Even if everything about Covid-19 including tests results, numbers of infections and the policies of governments are all accurate and done in good faith with the best of intentions for public health then that still leaves the question:

    How do the political/financial/power establishment intend to use this to benefit themselves? Have they already done so? How will they benefit from this going forward and what will have to be in place to maximize these benefits?

    Keep asking yourself this. Try to think how the powerful (you know, these billionaires and seemingly ever-present political figures you are mostly right in being happy to blame and distrust for everything else) could use such a crisis to benefit themselves.

    Benefit to profits
    Benefits to dismantling individual rights
    Benefits to usurping democracy

    Just remember – entire intelligence units including the 77th (dads army) have been officially assigned to ‘countering covid disinformation’ online.

    If you can honestly say that you have no concern for this, of any kind, then there is no point in the discussion – you live on your own personal little planet.

    I just hope there’s enough skeptics to make the difference when its crunch time.

    Just as a last point:

    One of the most important things to bear in mind is the analogy I made some time ago of how an ordinary, well meaning person is extremely vulnerable to psychopathic behavior in others – we are simply not wired to the callous manipulation and disregard for our well being and we make excuses for the person – simply because we find it difficult accept anyone can be so selfish and uncaring.

    This plays out on the scale of society also. Ordinary people are simply not capable of quickly fathoming how the people at the very, very top think and operate and they make excuses and dismiss whats in front of their eyes because the truth is simply too horrific to easily accept even when the obscuring layers placed by mainstream sources and ‘official sources’ are peeled away.

  38. Bob Mack says:


    My dad was an alien. ,and I can prove it.

    He had three goolies.

    I think it proves he was an extra terresticle.

  39. J Galt says:

    Schrodinger’s Cat@10.59am

    Did you read the first bit in the Daily Mail Schrodders old bean.

  40. schrodingers cat says:


  41. Joe says:

    @Schrodingers cat

    I was waiting for someone to bring up David Icke.

    There’s a reason some people are censored and others aren’t.

    There’s a reason he gets publicity.

    He, along with things like ‘flat earth’ act as a way to make it more easy for people to dismiss true concerns of things that are being hidden from public.

  42. Breastplate says:

    Of course masks help prevent droplets becoming airborne but it is also known that wearing a mask for prolonged periods can be unhealthy.

    Pros and cons, there’s always a balance to be had.

  43. Bob Mack says:


    Sorry but the WHO disagrees with you. No problem with prolonged use of masks if you regularly wash them when soiled.

    Certainly no respiratory consequences.

  44. callmedave says:

    @Bob Mack

    Ha! That reminds me of an overheard ‘hushed’ conversation I was party to between my mother and my auntie Kim.

    Seems my Uncle George who fought along the North African Coast and onto Italy in WWII unlike Hitler also had a surplus testicle.

    I was only about 11 years old at the time fiddling with my meccano set behind the settee!

    I raised an eyebrow and on my next visit to the ablutions had a quick check and was relieved, and at the same time, pleased that I only had the requisite amount! 🙂

    Ah! Uncle George from Lumphinnans famous, in my eyes at least, for uttering that old war time phrase, on occassions…

    “Davie boy! Never forget, England stood alone” with a hearty laugh to follow.

    I never forgot… 🙂 Anyhoo! All dead now. 🙁

    Great cartoon and I see you have the UJ on the right upside doon!

  45. Pete says:

    Scott finlayson
    How do you explain that, in the last few weeks, the UK death rate is below average?
    You go on about a few hundred Covid deaths but don’t you realise that people die all the time from cancer, heart disease, strokes, old age, etc., Each one is a heartbreak for their nearest and dearest.
    I would imagine that Covid has probably brought forward the deaths of folks who were teetering by a month or two and, as a consequence we now have a lower death rate.
    Grizzly stuff but needs saying.
    You are obviously one of the muzzled fanatics indoctrinated by the words of Saint Nicola.
    Wise up, man.

  46. J Galt says:


    It’s called a “Straw Man Argument”, and our friend Schrodinger is giving us a masterclass.

  47. vlad (not that one) says:

    @J Galt, 10:38
    … Dr Sucharit Bhakdi, one of the most cited medical experts in Germany, former Head of the Institute of Medical Microbiology at the Johannes Gutenberg University of Mainz – as “expert” as you can get. See his open letter to Angela Merkel. …

    I read his letter ( and I do not feel all that much enlightened.

    The letter was from late March, when the epidemic was only starting in Germany. Essentially he was concerned that sweeping one-size-fits-all countermeasures would damage the economy etc. and that it might perhaps be better to concentrate mainly on protecting the vulnerable.

    He then posed five questions querying the validity of available information (re infection rates, mortality, multiple causes of death, are Italian and Spanish data applicable to German conditions etc.).

    And that is about it. I should get out more.

  48. Bob Mack says:


    I think the clue is in the word average!!!

  49. Joe says:

    Its probably a good idea to bear in mind:

    People here were convincing themselves that the SNP were going to push for Independence last election – even when senior people in the SNP were saying otherwise.

    These same people derided and insulted those who pointed out the bare, honest truth.

    Then the SNP didn’t push for independence after last election.

    Many people believe they will push for independence next election – even though there have been strong hints made against this.

    Why are the people most likely to believe whatever is most comfortable for them the most likely to engage in mockery of people who point out uncomfortable truths?

    Same for Covid.

    2 reasons:

    1 – psychology. Unable to accept uncomfortable perspectives and lashing out at those who point them out.
    2 – dishonesty. There are people on here trying to function as shepherds in the discourse. Mockery is an easily available tool and is quite effective as it targets the personal insecurities of people who have concerns.

  50. Bob Mack says:


    You forgot number 3.


  51. Clapper57 says:

    @ Bob Mack @ 11.07am

    Lol…. 😉

    Have a good day Bob

  52. Gary45% says:

    Nice one Chris.
    The Clown Idiot and His Flying Circus.

    A wee O/T
    Have a listen to the track Garden of Remembrance from the upcoming final solo album from Fish. Watch it on YouTube.

  53. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Completely off topic (topic being Boris Johnson is a Twatt) but as some one who has worked in Medical Microbiology all their adult life, there are one or two anomalies being mentioned that “jar” with me.

    (1) It was mentioned Covid-19 has not been “isolated” yet. Well, of course it hasn’t been “isolated” yet. It is a virus. You “isolate” bacteria while you only “detect” viruses. They are too small to be seen except by electron microscopy and cannot be cultured like bacteria.

    (2) Masks are not useless nor are they 100% effective. They lessen the chance of transmission but they don’t negate it. They are a net positive re Covid …. though admittedly annoying.

    (3) Masks CAN be bad if you don’t wash or change them regularly. I dropped one on the mycology (fungi) lab floor a couple of weeks ago and there was no way that was going back on my face.

    (4) Covid is NOT a hoax. Where strict controls have been brought in the deaths have been limited. Where little or no controls have brought in the death rate is much higher. The US has lost about twice as many people to the Covid virus in the last three months than it did in twenty years of the Vietnam war. With no end in sight, it might not be long before their death toll exceeds that of WW2, and possibly all the wars they fought in the 20th century by Christmas. That is not an insignificant number.

  54. Doug says:

    Liar and coward Johnson is a smelly dangle berry.

  55. CameronB Brodie says:

    The first moral responsibility we have is to maintain our biological integrity. This prevents us from becoming a burden to society, and means we can help others. Suggesting there is no heightened public health risk and that masks are not practically functional and beneficial, indicates a detachment from reality and tendency towards magical thinking. So such opinion can be safely disregarded as being rather dangerous, and unsupportive of public health.

  56. Breastplate says:

    What I’ve written is true.
    If you add caveats then of course it can then become untrue but it then also becomes something that I have not written.
    I’m a great believer in Newton’s 3rd law and I believe we can apply it to pretty much everything.
    It’s objective but what we do and I suppose that it’s human nature we make those actions subjective.
    For instance my pros and cons may not be your pros and cons.

  57. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Oh, snd;

    (5) The official (as in, the Tories admit to) figure in England is calculated as those who died in hospital after having been given a positive Covid diagnosis. The “smaller” Scottish figure is arrived at using this method also. The “larger” Scottish figure is the one where it doesn’t matter how the patient died (said “bus” etc”) so long as Covid is mentioned on the certificate. Exactly the opposite to what Scott F would have us believe.

    It’s amazing how many people on this site see a “relatively” good news story about Scotland’s ability to cope on its own and immediately feel the need to rubbish it …. all in the interests of getting independence obviously. Wouldn’t want people thinking they had another agenda or anything. No false flags here, no sirree.

  58. Bob Mack says:


    I have a close friend who is a very busy Orthopaedic surgeon.

    He can be masked up every day(except Sundays), for hours and hours on end. Sometimes up to 10 hours a day. He even now does his clinics in a mask.

    No issues whatsoever, then or now.

    Every Health worker is the same, and glad to have the protection however tenuous.

  59. Effijy says:

    Average death rates down can be for a number of reasons.

    First we know the English government and their PM constantly lie
    And corrupt figures.
    For example- We are well prepared for the virus and have sufficient stocks of PPE
    or perhaps you prefer the a pair of gloves is 2 pieces of PPE?

    Next with the furlough precaution kids weren’t crossing roads to school,
    Reps weren’t having crashes on the motorway construction workers were
    Not falling off scaffold and the silent killer stress was not being fed by ever
    Increasing production numbers in the workplace.

    The Civid Death rate per day is lower than that of those accumulated above.

    Pete, you should volunteer to explain to patients families that some might only last months or years so you would rather they just popped their clogs now to save any fuss?

    You would be the first casualty if you came near my family with that suggestion.

  60. jfngw says:


    Good to see you are the arbiter of plain honest truth, I’ve always found there is rarely any such thing. People create their opinions based on the knowledge they hold, sometimes it is correct, sometimes it ends up wrong because all the facts are not available.

    There is no absolute truth, is capitalism or socialism the perfect model for a country, you will receive a different answer depending who you ask. The answer is probably neither as all systems end up corrupted by those manipulating it for their own advantage. All those devout capitalists would suddenly become devoted socialists still in control and still working the system

    The same is true of science, it changes when more facts are revealed. But who to believe, those that study it and have produced a large reduction in the spread of cases in Scotland, or a BTL commentator on twitter.

    But to paraphrase JKR

    Wear want you want
    Go where you want
    Infect who you like
    Pay the fine when you break the law

  61. Breastplate says:

    Again Bob,
    At no point have I said that everyone who wears a mask is compromising their health so I’m more than happy to accept what you say.

  62. Breastplate says:

    To add, I also did not suggest that the benefits of wearing a mask is tenuous.

    There has been a debate on this site for months about the pros and cons of this model of lockdown and it reminds me of the pendulum of a Grandfather clock, in that the pendulum only ever pauses at the 2 extremes.

  63. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s a perspective some might find interesting, though as the Scottish government defers to Westminster rather than international human rights law, it is perhaps somewhat irrelevant.

    Microbialpolitik: Infectious Diseases and
    International Relations

  64. John D says:

    Anyone in doubt due to disingenuous posting please note.
    In England the Law was adjusted to allow deaths to be attributed to Covid 19 without testing if suspicion is claimed . Also , deaths can be omitted from Covid 19 figures if there has been no test .
    Basically it is upto human discretion to decide the ACTUAL figures for England .
    Convenient and Typical.

  65. Bob Mack says:


    If the deaths are below the average, perhaps we could kill a few just to keep the statisticians happy!

  66. iain mhor says:

    I’ve read a few papers and heard ‘official advice’ that Scotland couldn’t and shouldn’t be Independent. I think some Prime Minister or other, was banging on about that in Scotland the other day.

    It’s like P1 in here at times. Who else might wear a mask children and why?
    If you have a cold and sneeze, should you A/Cover you mouth, B/Not cover your mouth C/ Eat glue?

    Beyond any arguing about whether Covid-19 is engineered by, or is a grand lie of the Merovingian, illuminati Lizard beings of Lemuria – the Ladybird Book of basic principles remains – regardless of ‘advice’.
    Delusional reasoning to justify actions, simply because feelz have been hurt is just sad.

    Right, teabreak bye – back to grinding rust, welding up the old Landrover, spraying the chassis and then to the sawbench, to fab up the new shed for the garden.
    But if the missus sends me to the corner shop for a loaf, there’s no fekn way I’m going wi a wee mask on – far too much hassle and I’m told, causes severe health problems within five minutes. Besides, last time I was sent I had itchy baws, so I didn’t wear pants or trousers – barred…bloody fascists!

  67. Stuart MacKay says:


    Your anti-SNP, anti-covid, anti-socialism stance here is burning all your political capital for no gain whatsoever.

    You’d get a lot further with pushing land reform, tax reform, business rate reform and other topics that were (small) business friendly and boosted personal liberty over the entrenched and vested interests of money and privilege.

    All these are things that the SNP are dragging their feet on and come independence something needs to be done to close off the loopholes that result in a torrent of money draining out of the country. That way you can still bash the SNP all you want but we’d all get the benefit of it too.

    Iain Lawson’s blog,, touches on a lot of same stuff which you might find interesting. (no connection, I just think he writes a lot of interesting stuff and doesn’t pull punches).

  68. CameronB Brodie says:

    iain mhor 😉

  69. Walter Jones says:

    Me Bungo Pony and Cat are two fully paid members of the Tartan Tory 77th Brigade.

    They are on here to push the narrative that the SNP are good and Devolution isn’t all that bad.

    Soon they will campaign on behalf of their Commanding officer that the SNP need one more push, one more Mandate.

    And they will also try to discredit anyone who comes up with any alternative to the SNP 1&2 at next year’s Hollyrood election.

    I never thought I’d ever say this,

    But beware of SNP Trolls infiltrating Wings.

    We know who you are!!!

    We see you!!!

    Creepy times lie ahead my fellow INDY supporters.

    You have been warned!!!

  70. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scots have human rights even if Westminster is determined that we should not be able to access them. A legal order that perpetuates such social injustice is not worthy of respect, as it is anti-democratic in nature and harmful to the fabric of Scotland’s culture and civic society.

    BMC Public Health volume 19, Article number: 1571 (2019)

    Developing a critical realist informed framework to explain how the human rights and social determinants of health relationship works

  71. Mialuci says:


    Independence for Scotland, Independence for baxters ox tail soup

    Independence for mince and totties, Independence for scotch mist

    Independence for my left cheek, Independence for the orange order

    Independence for the queen, Independence for everybody and everything I forgot to mention lol

  72. Breastplate says:

    Iain Mohr,
    I remember David Cameron telling us In 2014 that he believed we were better off together and I thought he was quite right because that was his belief from an English perspective however from a Scottish perspective he was completely wrong.

  73. Robert graham says:

    Ok who pressed the bloody mask button

    LBC if you happen to tune in it’s non stop bloody moaning ,

    The Aussies say when a plane lands at Sydney airport from London even when the engines are switched off you can still hear the bloody Whining .

    Stuart Hosie is apparently on the Security and Intelligence committee I wonder if he is on board with the proposed changes to the official secrets Act that would render Journalists and anyone who is in receipt of information deemed secret by the government to have committed Treason, Christ any government minister who has committed murder or has stolen millions could safely operate under this Veil of secrecy,

    1984 wasn’t fiction it was bloody warning ,
    And this house arrest labelled as lockdown is one small part of people being brought under control ,the ones hidden behind the scenes don’t need to request information about us Facebook that harmless social media platform was developed by the CIA who couldn’t believe their luck when people started giving all their information freely ,

    Christ this is a STASI wet dream even they would have been impressed every one on the planet under constant supervision it’s happening right now ,it’s done and we lost and never noticed it .

  74. Dan says:

    Effijy says: at 12:33 pm

    Average death rates down can be for a number of reasons.

    …Not falling off scaffold…”

    Jeezo, please don’t put even more pressure on me removing this old stone chimney and rebuilding the new one!

    I’ve already had to make bespoke scaffolding because modern stuff was too narrow to fit where I am working. Lifting stones the size and weight of engine blocks breaches health and safety regs too, but how else can you safely remove 50kilo chunks of crumbling stone. You have to work oldskool coz you can’t sort shiz like this swiping away on a smartphone or laptop.

    @ iain mhor

    Ooh, built a few Land and Rangerovers from the ground up in my time, but I need to know, if you’re going to be running a diesel engine or a V8 running on LPG. If the former I’ll need to wear a mask to stop all those nasty exhaust particulates… 🙂

  75. Bob Mack says:

    @Robert Graham,

    Is your personal information so interesting it would attract the CIA?

    Don’t tell us if it leaves you open to blackmail.!!

  76. Dan says:

    Breastplate says: at 1:39 pm

    I remember David Cameron telling us In 2014 that he believed we were better off together and I thought he was quite right because that was his belief from an English perspective however from a Scottish perspective he was completely wrong.

    Absolutely correct on this point and well worth stressing.
    It’s backed up by the fact that since the formation of this Union back in the day, England’s population has grown at a significantly faster rate than Scotland’s, and thus advantaged them in economic terms.
    This blows holes in the notion of this being an equal Union, which was not meant to allow any constituent part of the UK an economic advantage over another.
    A blip deviation over a couple of years might be expected, but the same trend developing over a few hundred years proves political decisions have favoured our southern neighbours.

  77. Breastplate says:

    Yes and the beneficiary of those decisions will not and we could argue cannot change under our present circumstances.

  78. CameronB Brodie says:

    Yes, the mask issue is relevant but also a distraction from the real threat Scotland faces, i.e. authoritarian English nationalism. Brexit indicates HMG has adopted legal FORCE as a means of implimenting public policy, i.e. EUGENICS. If we allow this to happen, the Scottish perspective of reality will not last long. As such, British nationalism opposes a plurality of thought and intention, so must be considered TOTALITARIAN.

    Full text.

    Philosophical Psychology Volume 30, 2017 – Issue 3
    Collective intentionality and socially extended minds

  79. James Che. says:

    Rev, could you do a topic about face masks just this once, for the sake of all the rest of us who are trying very hard to comment on your topics that you put up,
    Deflecting conversations to covid on every subject is annoying for those of us wishing to discuss independence,
    Once they have all insulted each other enough, to get it out their systems we can get back to the Holyrude power grab, or Boris the clown, the talking up of war for Britain by uk government, how to turn labour against tories, or tories against Lib Dem’s,
    Here in Scotland that might not be such a bad idea, as obviously that is what they do to the yes movement,
    Only suggestions,

  80. Jimmy Jo says:

    Masks are a soley individual decision.

    No one can force you to wear a mask, but the looks you get when you enter a store with out one is enough to make you wear

  81. Effijy says:

    Can I make a suggestion?

    Take a face mask and use a spray or atomiser on the I side and notice
    That it doesn’t go on the outside.
    So if you have Covid and breath out you will be keeping
    Most if not all the virus inside so you are less likely to infect others.

    Do it again by spraying the outside of the mask.
    The inside is dry so the mask is blocking most if not
    All of the virus droplets.

    You are less likely to catch Covid from someone who has it.

    If the people around you are wearing masks you have halved the chances
    If spreading or catching the virus.

    Sure other factors apply about having a good quality mask and changing filters
    Or replacing them.

    Do you see any surgeons or dentists not wearing masks?

    There is a reason for it or they wouldn’t make them!

    Wear a mask if you have any sense and don’t if you don’t give a damn about yourself or others.

    If you think it doesn’t work for you then give others the assurance they need that everyone will wear one.

    Let’s all leave masks now and comment on Scotland’s future and the disgraceful absurdity of the
    Westminster parties abusing us by means fair and foul.

  82. Bob Mack says:

    @David Che,

    Commenting on the topic isn’t so hard. Look at the topic and then write accordingly.

  83. schrodingers cat says:

    interesting exchange

    Derek Bateman@DerekBateman2 · 17h
    Replying to @indyscotnews and @GeorgeKerevan
    Ok. Not sure which law. We have the right to self determination as a human rights principle (UN) but states deal with other states and as the EU indicates, if the sovereign entity (London) doesn’t agree to Indy, no capital will recognise us. De facto no Indy.

    George Kerevan@GeorgeKerevan·17h
    Yes Derek but there are examples of ex British territories declaring independence FIRST and Westminster acquiescing, not least the Irish Republic. I’m not advocating, just rejecting craven notion a sovereign Scotland has to wait for Westminster permission to run its own affairs.

  84. CameronB Brodie says:

    This may appear OT but English legal culture tends to take an ambivalent view of Roman law, but that is to deny the significant role it played in shaping English legal culture. Remember, the British constitution is grounded in English common law, and should apply to Scotland as it does England. Of course, the spivs and neo-fascists running the Conservative party today, don’t give two hoots about the rule-of-law. Same as it ever was.

    Fundamentals of Roman Private Law pp 85-118
    The Law of Persons

  85. Breastplate says:

    You’re correct, if we have to wait for permission from the English Parliament (that’s essentially what Westminster is) then we will never be independent.

    Perhaps the strategists in the SNP will come to realise this….or maybe not.

  86. Republicofscotland says:

    Another belter Chris, Johnson flying up to closed shops in Scotland, his sounds bites echoed loudly by the British Nationalist media, no longer carry the clout that they once did, as more and more folk wisen up to his, and indeed the British governments false promises.

    Johnson has allegedly said that he’ll never visit Sturgeon at Bute house again, will he missed? I doubt it.

  87. schrodingers cat says:


    a s30 is within the power of wm to grant. i dont think anyone is questioning that.

    however, holding indyref2 without a s30 is within our power.

    question is, would the eu and others recognise the result?

    if not, where would that leave us?

    the same could be said for a he turned into an indy plebiscite, however, there is a much greater chance of unionist participation in a he, see GG

  88. John Digsby says:

    @Scott Finlayson

    Where are you finding 120 C19 deaths in England yesterday? Figures I can find are 25

  89. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s a look at the Law of Persons from the perspective of South African public law, just to highlight how far removed Scots are from being considered human by Westminster. Remember, Scots law hasn’t gotten around to defining legal protection for our economic, social, and cultural rights, as Scots law is subordinate to the principle of Parliamentary sovereignty, apparently.

    PVL1501 LAW OF Persons Notes – Chapter 1-8

  90. Merkin Scot says:

    I haven’t taken Baxter’s soup in a long time.
    Tunnock’s the same.
    Irn Bru the same.
    No big deal as it’s my choice.
    The clothing I wear is also a matter of personal choice.
    Except, under Boris and Nicola it isn’t.
    The message from them appears to be ‘support Project Fear, support the Union, wear a mask’.
    No thanks.

  91. Gary45% says:

    John Digsby @ 3.19pm
    The data for deaths is available at
    123 were recorded for 24th July for the UK. Scotland, Wales and N Ireland recorded zero deaths for that day, hence the 123 were for England.

  92. CameronB Brodie says:

    Is a scientific world-view and social responsibility not for you, Markin Scot? That’s not helpful to anyone but it’s up to you, I suppose. Perhaps there’s room for improvement in your sociability?

    Introducing Personal Social Responsibility
    as a key element to upgrade CSR

    Corporate Social Responsibility has emerged as a response to the increasing demand of societies to have more responsible, ethical, transparent and respectable public and private organizations. However, these corporate strategies cannot be a reality without a parallel evolution on individual responsible behaviors, aligned with the claimed premises and values that are gaining space in the social and economic fields.

    Although literature on consumer behavior has correctly addressed new tendencies of ethical consumption during the last decades, citizens should be responsible not only of their purchasing choices, but also of the influence that their daily acts and decisions will have on the economic, social and environmental spheres of life.

    This article introduces Personal Social Responsibility as a new concept, based on the concepts of Corporate and Consumer Social Responsibility, providing a theoretical framework as a starting point for future empirical research.

  93. Andy Ellis says:


    Good to hear George Kerevan corrected Derek Bateman. Of course it is true that an uncontested result will make international recognition and entry to international bodies considerably easier, but if Bateman is advancing the argument that cots independence is contingent on Westminster’s agreement, he is simply factually wrong.

    A “metropolitan” power does not have unlimited rights to deny self determination to a people who express the desire for independence. The Spanish government for example can insist until it is blue in the face that the Catalan’s are not “allowed” to exercise their right of self-determination because the Spanish constitution forbids it, but that position has no basis in international law.

    Self determination is a jus cogens under international law, and supervenes any purported prohibition based on constitutional bans or references to the territorial integrity of the larger state. The right is not automatic or unlimited, but the attitude of the international community toward the seceding state will be informed by the actions of the parties, the extent to which they negotiated in good faith, and the steps taken by both sides prior to the proposed secession.

    Scotland is in an almost uniquely favourable position to gain its independence simply by voting for it, whether via referendum or plebiscitary elections. That’s the reason so many Catalans envied us in 2012-14.

    Given the experience of the past 5 years it is increasingly obvious that the major obstacle to attaining independence in the short to medium term is not British nationalist opposition, media hostility or the economics of establishing a Scottish state, it is the lack of political courage and vision amongst Scottish voters and the leadership of the independence movement.

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    As far as I’m concerned, the Scottish government has shirked its’ moral responsibility and duty of care towards Scotland’s civic society and general public. Most probably as they are getting their legal advice from HMG civil service.

  95. Andy Ellis says:


    The source or indeed quality of their legal advice is largely immaterial if they lack the political cojones to act on any advice. The failure to put the issue of whether Holyrood had the competence to hold a referendum without a S30 Order beyond legal doubt was a red flag. It’s not as if the issue was unknown: I remember it being discussed back in 2012 and being the subject of articles by constitutional lawyers at the time.

    In the final analysis the broader Yes movement, and in particular the SNP, has to make it plain that if the much vaunted “Claim of Right” is to mean anything at all, it is that Scots will not tolerate the peculiarly English conceit of the primacy of the Westminster parliament being used as a weapon to over-ride the will of the Scottish people or their parliament.

    Unless and until they are prepared to do so, the game’s a bogey.

  96. D. Macdonald says:

    Willie at 9.44am

    I don’t think the fishermen in Stromness are as tame as you suggest, Willie. If you look closely at a picture taken of Boris with a pair of crabs, you will see the union flag on the vessel behind him is flying upside down, this being a signal of extreme distress – how appropriate!!! In all my days of living in a fishing port, I have never seen a fishing boat fly the union flag, so I reckon these smiling fishermen were taking the p&ss out of Johnson.

  97. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    I kind of agree with you on the need for a will to succeed, but the source of one’s perspective does kind of shape one’s actions. The civic nationalist route has done us well, but will be undone if Westminster is allowed to ignore international law and strip us of our EU legal identities.

    Every electoral ward in Scotland voted to reject the cultural narcissism of Brexit, which to me represents a coherent, NATIONAL, rejection of populist, white, English Torydum.

    The international rule-of-law will support Scotland, not populist, authoritarian, ethnic, constitutional majoritarianism.

    Scottish Geographical Journal Volume 134, 2018 – Issue 1-2

    Too many Scotlands? Place, the SNP, and the future of nationalist mobilization

    Scottish nationalism has always had a ‘geographical problem’ in the sense that support for its central goal, the independence of Scotland from the United Kingdom, has had much more backing in some regions and localities than it has had in others.

    In the 1970s and 1980s the geographical pattern to this support, at least as expressed in votes for the Scottish National Party (SNP), seemed very clear. Suddenly the picture changed between 2011 and 2016, to the extent that the whole of Scotland, notwithstanding the overall ‘No’ vote on Scottish independence in the 2014 referendum, seemed to be lining up to some degree or another in the ‘nationalist column.’ As quickly, this proved ephemeral.

    As of 2017, the future of the central goal of Scottish nationalism is once more in doubt because of a new geography of support and disaffection that seems to reflect a number of recent trends in attitudes towards voting for the SNP.

    The article maps the course of the older and newer geographies of Scottish nationalism in terms of the overall political economy of the country, given its proponents’ heavy emphasis on economic themes, and the ways this is refracted through place-to-place social and economic differences across the country.

    Place, Scotland, SNP, nationalism, independence, Brexit

  98. This site puts me in mind of the words of a song It’s only words but words are all I have to take your heart away as I say go cap in hand and ask them for your freedom they will laugh at you but take the cap to one side and reveal you are,holding a gun in your other hand then they will listen to you you are not dealing with reasonable people they are forcing you into other ways to win y,our freedom as they have done to others in the past and they have always ended up losing When will they ever learn ???

  99. schrodingers cat says:

    Andy Ellis says:
    The Spanish government for example can insist until it is blue in the face that the Catalan’s are not “allowed” to exercise their right of self-determination because the Spanish constitution forbids it, but that position has no basis in international law.


    fine, but even tho’ amnesty international condemned the spanish government for exactly that, only 41/750 meps signed their petition and the catalan politicians are still in jail.


    Scotland is in an almost uniquely favourable position to gain its independence simply by voting for it, whether via referendum or plebiscitary elections. That’s the reason so many Catalans envied us in 2012-14.

    you are aware that westminster can change the laws to suit itself anytime it wants?

  100. Andy Ellis says:


    Indeed: the Catalans are in an invidious position, which I don’t envy. The fact remains however that the Spanish governments claims have no merit, any more than Westminster’s claims to be able to “allow” a referendum have merit. Of course we tend to assume that unlike Madrid, Westminster won’t send in external police units or the armed forces to beat Scottish grannies trying to vote. The problem the Generalitat had was demonstrating that it had a mandate or clear majority support: their referendum was always going to be contested. Perhaps they should switch to plebiscitary elections too?

    You are however correct to point out the (in my view shameful) lack of support from the EU for Catalan political prisoners. Sadly, to paraphrase Stalin, the Catalans like the Vatican have few divisions of soldiers.

    Yes, I am aware Westminster can change the laws any time it likes. So what? Either we accept that the primacy of the Westminster parliament over-rides the Claim of Right and our own much vaunted popular sovereignty, or we don’t.

    I have a growing suspicion that the SNP leadership do accept that veto. Their view is clearly that there is no credible path to independence without the agreement of the British state. I find that acquiescence troubling, in fact actually shameful.

    However, even if I was minded to agree that the only route to indy was via a “Gold Standard” Westminster sanctioned referendum, I’d be forced to agree that it is a huge hostage to fortune, because it essentially surrenders all the power to our opponents. Unlike in 2012-14 we would find ourselves in the same situation as our Catalan friends find themselves in practice (if not in principle), i.e. they will never be permitted to exercise their right to self determination unless and until the whole of Spain consents.

    The SNP have effectively “Catalanised” the issue of Scottish independence by adopting a monomaniacal attachment to the one trick pony of an agreed referendum, while studiously refusing to countenance any alternative.

    As I’ve said before, gradualists gonna gradualise. If you’re happy with independence sometime in 2039 assuming Westminster thinks it’s a good idea, continue to fluff the prospects of the SNP. If you want actual change, start thinking about something new.

  101. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Walter Jones says: (1:35 pm)

    “Me Bungo Pony and Cat are two fully paid members of the Tartan Tory 77th Brigade”.

    Can’t speak for the Cat but ….. I’m in nobodies pay but the NHS.

    “They are on here to push the narrative that the SNP are good and Devolution isn’t all that bad”.

    Obviously to the first part and nonsense to the second. Where’s your evidence for any of this?

    “Soon they will campaign on behalf of their Commanding officer that the SNP need one more push, one more Mandate”

    By “Commanding officer” I assume you mean Nicola Sturgeon (Satan to you). And leaving aside that bit of bat-sh*t craziness, you are absolutely right. With sustained support for the FM, the SNP and, consequently, independence at record highs it would be insane to kill the momentum now with incestuous, puritanical blood-letting. Not hiding that opinion from anyone.

    “And they will also try to discredit anyone who comes up with any alternative to the SNP 1&2 at next year’s Hollyrood election”.

    Not trying to discredit anyone (apart from Joe who quite plainly is no friend to independence). Just pointing out the flaws in their arguments. That’s called “debate”. Something some of the denizens of this site seem to dislike.

    “I never thought I’d ever say this, But beware of SNP Trolls infiltrating Wings”.

    I would expect any pro-indy site worth the name to have many SNP “trolls” as you call them on it. They are THE party of independence after all. Without them, there would be no prospect of independence at all …. ever.

    “We know who you are!!! We see you!!!”

    That’s a little creepy!

    “Creepy times lie ahead my fellow INDY supporters. You have been warned!!!”

    Well stop making “creepy” statements then.

  102. Ottomanboi says:

    Most miss the point. Are humans social animals? If not then THEY, the SARS Cov-2 fetishists have won.
    Covidism is as pernicious as prescriptive woke. Independence in such a context is utterly vacuous not to say meaningless. The world has changed. That reality must now be absorbed into our national struggle. Effectively, we ought to piss on its pretension, as Voltaire might have said.

  103. callmedave says:

    Corona virus figs today:

    N. Ireland……today…..00……Total… weekend report England………today…..25 sun..Total..^41143…^WMGov

  104. iain mhor says:

    @Dan 1:51pm

    Last of the mechanicals (200 & 300tdi’s) running my own DIY (reclaimed) 100% Biofuel (masks & respirators required ha!) and very good quality it is too. Though folk do tend to get a notion for pakora when I tootle by.

    Yes, diesel.engines, but at least it’s not consuming much in the way of petrochemicals. about 1/4 of production requires Methanol (much is reclaimable again via distillation, for diminishing returns)
    Sure, much of methanol production is from Syngas (via Co2 & H gasified from natural gas) but things are moving towards methanol production from direct CO2. Ultimately that is nearer a closed loop of CO2 consumption /production etc.

    Couple that with reclaimed food oils and the amount of reclaimed/recycled parts in the Landy; the fact I haven’t required new vehicles to be built for me to buy, every 3-5 years and I’m fairly happy with my green credentials at the moment.

    How reeky is it? Well orders of magnitude less than DERV, and better than Biodiesel (Bio+Derv) but any combustible exhaust fumes are not ideal obviously. I’m just a dude trying my best and its better than most.
    Maybe I’ll be offered a scrappage swap – my diesel lump for a leecy unit, I’ll not hold my breath ha!

    Besides, for the coming breakdown of civilisation, I’m backing an old Landy. As for Leccy, maybe we’ll move to hundred percent renewable production of Leccy and it will be ‘too cheap to meter’….bwahahaha!

  105. schrodingers cat says:

    Yes, I am aware Westminster can change the laws any time it likes. So what? Either we accept that the primacy of the Westminster parliament over-rides the Claim of Right and our own much vaunted popular sovereignty, or we don’t.


    do or dont accept it. neither will stop wm if it so choses.

    we have one chance left andy, one chance to hold a fully participated scottish election hopefully producing a 50%+ result for indy

    beyond that is anyones guess. i suspect the rules of the game will change and you and i can then stop speaking in hypotheticals

  106. Breeks says:

    Andy Ellis says:
    25 July, 2020 at 3:47 pm

    Good to hear George Kerevan corrected Derek Bateman. Of course it is true that an uncontested result will make international recognition and entry to international bodies considerably easier…

    It certainly would make recognition easier if Scottish constitutional sovereignty was not disputed, but there is a vitally important distinction between an undisputed interpretation of the law whereby Scottish Sovereignty is recognised, and a democratic majority in favour of independence.

    We DO NOT require a pro Independence majority to defend Scotland’s Constitutional status in law. It is irrelevant.

    Say for comparison, you had your wallet stolen from you, but the thief was caught and your wallet was recovered. Your ownership of the wallet is a legal condition defined and protected by law. It would be absurd if ownership of your wallet was to be subject to a public referendum.

    Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is our “legal title” on Scotland. It is an absolute legal condition which is currently being violated by Westminster, (and Holyrood for that matter), but ephemeral opinion, (like a referendum result or poll), does not have the power to re-write the Constitution recognised by the law.

    Scotland voted NO in 2014, and that democratic result is every inch as sovereign as a YES victory would have been. Sovereignty is not the decision that is made, it is having the power to make the decision.

  107. schrodingers cat says:

    Walter Jones says: (1:35 pm)

    “Me Bungo Pony and Cat are two fully paid members of the Tartan Tory 77th Brigade”.

    who the f@ck is wally jones when he’s at home?

  108. bipod says:

    Excellent interview with Anders Tegnell, the person leading Swedens response to covid 19.

    Of course Sweden is an example that drives the lockdown fanatics mad. Sweden didn’t have a severe lockdown like the UK (it implemented some social distancing thats all), restaurants, shops and schools remained open and Neil Ferguson’s dodgy model (which drove our own wild overreaction) predicted that 85000 deaths if they did not implement a lockdown like the UK and guess what, it got no where near that. That deaths in sweden like those in the UK mostly came from people on end of life care in care homes.

    I find it surpising that the self proclaimed “ethical public health experts” on here would recommend a policy of compulsory face masks enforced by fixed penalty notices, when the evidence showing any benefit is so thin. If you are going to make something like this a criminal offence you need some rock solid evidence, not a hunch or a majority opinion from “experts” who have been consistently wrong throughout this. Face masks are not about stopping the spread of the virus it is a purely political power play designed to keep the fear up about a “pandemic” that has totally run out of steam here. The WHO admits that it dropped its own opposition to face masks not because of some new scientific revelation but because of political pressure from lobbyists.

  109. Shug says:

    It looks like the Russians did interfere in the Scottish Referendum and at the invitation of the English.

    Next time we must ensure there is no influence from foreign governments.

    It is for the people of Scotland to decide.

  110. schrodingers cat says:

    Breeks says:
    It certainly would make recognition easier if Scottish constitutional sovereignty was not disputed,


    i dont dispute it, i merely point out that bojo can simply change the law, at anytime. so that scots are no longer sovereign

    We DO NOT require a pro Independence majority to defend Scotland’s Constitutional status in law. It is irrelevant.

    breeks, i think this is the last time we will have a real opportunity to vote on our independence. whether bojo respects the result or not is the case in point. any legal route challenge against bojo will have more chance of success with a 50%+ yes plebiscite in its hand.

    you know, there really is nothing i disagree with your statement breeks. nothing. but scotland is britains last hurrah, i wouldnt put anything past them.

    we are down to the wire now, as I said to andy, very soon we will all no longer need to speak in hypotheticals

  111. schrodingers cat says:

    I find it surprising that the self proclaimed “ethical public health experts” on here would recommend a policy of compulsory face masks enforced by fixed penalty notices,


    except we are not self proclaimed “ethical public health experts” we merely defer to public health experts not david icke

  112. Bob Mack says:

    “Any fool can codemn,complain and criticise, and most fools do”. _ Benjamin Franklin

  113. mike cassidy says:

    Just started reading this thread.

    So I may have been preempted.

    But I had to respond to the Fife Hairdresser flake.

    The Eskimos have never heard of cancer is definitely a new one for me.

    Where do they get this rubbish?

    Cancer in Alaskan Indians, Eskimos, and Aleuts, 1969-83: implications for etiology and control.

  114. robbo says:

    bipod says:
    25 July, 2020 at 6:27 pm

    So who’s spreading this virus then numbnuts ? The fecking tooth fairy.

  115. robbo says:

    Walter Jones says: (1:35 pm)

    You still here ya clown.

  116. schrodingers cat says:

    @mike cassidy

    its a beaut an’ no mistake 🙂

  117. Dan says:

    @iain mhor at 6.12pm


    Good to hear but not particularly unexpected that an individual with the intellect to think Scotland would be better being governed by ourselves, operates the optimum 200 or 300 TDI, and not the earlier 2.5 TD or later TD5 pieces of shit!
    Don’t even mention the even newer TDV6 & 8 “grenades”! Proof if ever it was needed that humankind peaked a while back…
    I just picked up a Bosch VE injection pump from a 200 TDI this week to go on a VW 1.9 to make it Mechanical TDI rather than ECU controlled. 😉
    All the years of draining sunflower oil from tuna tins rather than creating fatbergs will be useful!
    Not many folk will know that Rudolf Diesel’s original design was to run on veg oil rather than what we now call diesel.

    Aye, renewable clean power will be the way in the future as we reduce our emissions. Scotland really could lead the way with our abundant resources in this area, but with Energy being a power reserved to Shithouse on the Thames we can’t do much for the time being. 🙁
    Fires and stoves in our homes will no doubt be banned before too long, which makes me having to rebuild this fuckin chimney that won’t be used on a listed building all the more of a pain in the ass…

  118. Cuilean says:

    In the last week, Covid tested deaths:

    Scotland 0
    Wales 0
    N Ireland 0
    England 504.

    That ‘sheer might’ of the UK really is, as Lollysmum so deftly puts it above, ‘mere shite’.

  119. Bob Mack says:

    Very good article on CNN online ‘re the question of Covid being the end of the United Kingdom.

    Worth a read from an American perspective. No I can’t link on this device.

  120. Ottomanboi says:

    Before Covid….
    Stats…..what stats?
    The dominance of anglo-american on the net means that Indian = Native American not 1.2 billion inhabitants of the South Asian state.
    The health service of India proper following the anglosaxon model, private against state funding, has proved inadequate to the the job, even before Covid.
    Media hype suggests all this is due to ‘the virus’.
    Pull the other one!?
    Save the NHS….where money is regularly squandered…admin, IT, big pharma drugs….

  121. Andy Ellis says:

    @Breeks 6.20pm

    I don’t think it’s irrelevant though. My point is that we’ve moved away from the previous situation. In 2012 the Edinburgh Agreement represented an acceptance by britnats of the convention that Holyrood wouldn’t be overruled in areas where it had majority support from the Scottish electorate. Of course yoons thought they’d romp to a No vote in 2014 and got a scare.

    As a result, and abetted by the SNP’s political cowardice, britnats have moved from a “if you have a majority you can have a referendum” attitude towards a Madrid style “you can’t have a referendum unless we let you” attitude.

    Our popular sovereignty means diddly squat if we have no majority, and more importantly, no political force capable of turning that majority into a reality. It doesn’t matter whether that’s via referendum or plebiscitary elections.

    Sadly it’s quite apparent that the SNP have no stomach to insist the sovereignty of the Scottish people is respected, still less to deliver independence in this decade.

  122. mike cassidy says:


    England and Scotland went separate ways on Covid-19. It may lead to a full divorce

  123. Andy Ellis says:


    I don’t share your confidence that something will happen soon which renders hypotheticals moot. I recall you said before you thought it would all come to a head next year, but a hae ma doots!

    If there is no way to make Holyrood 2021 plebiscitary, we may as well accept that the yoons “once in a generation” formulation will become true by default. There will be no #indyref2 before 2039 because the SNP are too frit to engineer the circumstances for a vote.

  124. Tinto Chiel says:

    Your views on Covid will be probably be shaped by whatever scientific evidence you are exposed to.

    One thing’s for sure, it’s not the plague, as the tiny death tolls in small independent counties like Austria, Greece and Norway (and countries with larger populations, like Vietnam) show.

    Unfortunately, we are shackled to England and its grossly incompetent and callous laissez-faire government.

    I have been quite surprised by the number of commentators here largely following the government’s line on topics such as definition of Covid death, death and infection rates, etc. Some even seem to get some perverse enjoyment at itemising the sad and avoidable deaths caused mainly by the appalling handling of this public health emergency by WM.

    I suspect it will be many months yet before a totally clear picture emerges about Covid-19 but I remain pretty sceptical of the message beamed to us relentlessly via the state propagandist (I have no TV licence and only listen to Radio 4, our own VichyRadio being beyond the pale).

    I don’t know whether these guys have the answer either, but you can’t accuse them of not supplying scientific data to grapple with:

    I’m getting worried by the increasing authoritarianism of our own government too, whether it’s GRA, Hate Speech or its apparent enthusiasm for non-jury trials, no cross-examination or automatic right of appeal and its permitting of taped testimony. I know the SG took a step back over the latter proposals after resistance from the legal profession but it needs to be watched on these.

    I read this morning Ian Blackford’s assertion that Boris simply can’t go on refusing our democratic mandate for a Section 30 and wondered what Pollyanna world he lives in. WM has been ignoring Scotland quite successfully for 313 years and it all seems to have been going swimmingly for them, with lashings of ginger beer and Morris dancing.

  125. Terrycallachan says:

    ASDA plugging baxters soup you get four for the price of three , regularly , so someone is losing money , I bet it’s baxters but Asda are try’s big to help them they’ve even linked baxters soup to Heinz in a deal where you can buy a mix for a reduced price and again I’d say it’s baxters that is losing out not Asda or Heinz.

    Expect big union flags on baxters tins soon

    I too give them a swerve , mackies ice cream too and tunnocks they all supported NO

    I intend to leave RBS as well especially now that they’ve become Westminster bank

    Speaking to some friends and one who is English got uppity when told that the Mr Barbour who started the Barbour wax jacket company was British , he immediately said no its not its English

    The response from my Scottish friend who is a unionist was , but Mr Barbour was Scottish !

    The reply from my English labour voting friend to that was , but the factory is in North Shields which as far as I know is in England and I should know because that’s where I was born !

    My Scottish friend then said , well surely that makes the company British if the owner that started the company was Scottish and the factory is in England it’s British.

    My English pals reply was , how come every time England has something good its got to be called British and yet every time Scotland has something good Scotland insists that it has to be called Scottish I’m sick of Scotland trying to take from England.

    My head went right then left then right then……back and forth mouth wide open speechless and that’s not like me but I just thought to myself without saying a word
    ” the British nationalists are beginning to fight with themselves ”
    Leave them to it I thought
    Don’t interrupt them when they are destroying one another’s argument
    for ” the union”

  126. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    Do you know who’s behind that Swiss site, or how to evaluate scientific reports?

  127. Tinto Chiel says:

    @ CBB: everyone’s behind some site. Do YOU know how to evaluate scientific reports? I thought Town Planning was your bag. You keep telling us that.

  128. Andy Ellis says:


    However earnestly Blackford and his ilk believe the magical thinking that britnats will be overcome with an attack of reasonableness if only we give them yet another mandate, it becomes no more real. It’s symptomatic of what passes for our media that this delusion is not even examined, still less comprehensively rubbished as it ought to be.

  129. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. that Swiss site. They appear to think the Center for Health Security at Johns Hopkins University is at the center of a global conspiracy to exert US foreign influence. Let’s try to keep things real please.

    Meaning and Kind of Person
    The term person is derived from Latin word persona which means a mask worn by actors playing different roles in a drama. In modern days it has been used in a sense of a living person capable of having rights and duties. Now it has been used in different senses in different disciplines.

  130. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chie
    Half my degree was social science, so I known tones of usefull shit.

  131. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    I don’t want to get heavy but that site is clearly malicious and punting grade A conspiracy bollocks.

  132. defo says:

    Excruciatingly funny, once you get a taste for it Tinto.

  133. CameronB Brodie says:

    What exactly are you trying to achieve? I’m doing all I can to punt a scientific world-view. You appear to be stroking your ego in public. Are you really such a sad, wee, idiot?

  134. Tinto Chiel says:

    @CCB: Oh the irony of the Ace Monograph Foister refusing to engage with the scientific monographs and data on the site and smearing it instead!

    I dare say most of the folk on here know “useful shit” about their own areas of expertise but just maybe they are more open -minded than you. We are both just two aerosols on the internet and don’t really know diddly-squat about epidemiology und so weiter, whatever your “training” has taught you. Have you genuinely attempted to engage with the reams of data on the site? It took you all of 31 minutes to call it “Grade A conspiracy ballocks” in between comments on here. You’re some speed reader.

    Calm down Cams: what are you so scared of? I don’t even know if SPR is right or wrong, I’m just (as others have done over the last few months) putting it here for debate, not outright off-the-cuff rejection.

    I admit I don’t have the answers on Covid but I’m pretty sure you don’t either.

  135. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s taken me some time to rediscover the territory of ethical jurisprudence and international law, though I’d have hoped my legal insight might have been better appreciated. Not that I looking for praise, I’m just getting a bit sick and tired of all the twatish posturing btl.

    Full text.



    The analogy between natural persons and international persons
    was one of the main premises upon which the science of international law was founded in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.

    It was assumed that there existed a close resemblance, for many purposes, between the legal rights and duties of natural persons, subjects of municipal law, and the rights and duties of those juristic persons which are the subjects of international law. In one form or another the analogy was invoked constantly from the time when the law of nations first became a subject of juristic speculation and practical significance.

    The early conceptions of the nature of international society were based upon it. It furnished one of the essential premises in that process of reasoning by which the law of nature was applied to nations. It justified wholesale borrowing from the Roman jusgentium. It has had an immeasurable influence upon the subsequent development of international law, having been appealed to in later years as a reason for transplanting into the law of nations many concepts, principles, and rules borrowed outright from various systems of municipal law….

  136. Andy Ellis says:


    Sorry bud, what you’re mostly doing is posting a shit tonne of extraneous links few if anyone reads and clogging up the BTL comments. Situation normal on here it seems. Stu is very…..tolerant.

  137. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    Do you really think the Johns Hopkins University is at the center of a global conspiracy to exert US foreign influence?

  138. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    Who the fuck are you?

  139. Andy Ellis says:


    Just a contributor to the site bored like many other of your splatter gun cut and paste secondary sources. Shame you don’t just take it elsewhere. If only WoS had a filter function…..

  140. schrodingers cat says:

    me too andy

  141. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    RE: Baxters.

    Over the years, I have sampled various canned soups, being convenient and cheap.

    I do prefer my own Scotch Broth and Tattie & Leek but I’m not averse to sampling commercial products.

    What I have found over the past five years or so, is that Baxters do a decent Cock-a-leekie, Scotch Broth and Chicken Broth.

    What I have also observed is that Tesco and Asda tend to have Baxters soups priced at £1.10 – £1.20 per can. This is while other branded soups (Heinz, Campbells, etc) are around 70p per can.

    I have never paid full price for a can of Baxters. There are two versions of their soups – red background, 380 gm, found in Poundstretcher, B&M Bargains, Home Bargains, Poundland and so on, and 400 gm, with a white background, found in the mainstream supermarkets like Asda and Tesco.

    The red version tends to sell at 60p – 70p per can. Every so often, the likes of Asda and Tesco do a ‘special’ on Baxters soups, 4 or 5 for £X, resulting in a price per can being around 65p-70p per can.

    I don’t go with the commenters that say Baxters soups have extra water added. I have to add water to spin them out. I find Baxters soups adequate – but I’m never gonna pay £1.15 for a tin of soup!

    Lidl’s Newgate Cream of Chicken is fine, at around 40p a can.

  142. Walter Jones says:

    14 Day quarentine starts again tomorrow for anyone returning from Spain

    That free quarantine window didn’t last long.

  143. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    I couldn’t care less what you think. I’ve been trained to support open democracy through science and law. That is what I’m attempting to do, and I’m sure there are readers who will be interested in expanding and de-colonising their intellect. Unfortunately, you apparently think you already know it all.

    schrodingers cat
    You think morals are a fantasy and hold the law in contempt, so I’m certainly not going to take your opinion too seriously.

  144. Jimmy Jo says:

    I think somebody up thread was correct Rev.

    You should dedicate a thread to Covid19 and mask wearing and let everyone get it out if their system.

    Lots of arguments and counter arguments,,,, needs settled once and for all.

  145. Andy Ellis says:


    We know. Monomaniacal roasters like you just don’t know when to stop. Shame your quixotic need to validate yourself by hijacking someone else’s blog just gets in the way. Virtually nobody on here cares about your input or your regurgitated secondary sources. It’s lame AF.

  146. bittie45 says:

    The link from Willie at 10:13 re. grampianonline’s reporting on Boris & Co. visiting Baxter (text and image) archived as:

    I totally agree that there is utter disregard for the health message (what also about the law?), and understand that Audrew Baxter in 2014 had signed a letter against independence to the Scotsman, so the visit to this company will be no coincidence.

    The man and his gang are a downright disgrace in their sheer contempt for Scotland and her people, never mind the poor Baxter employees (who I imagine are receiving the motley crew as they enter the building). No social distancing of any kind and no face covering – for all to see. What an absolute bunch of ?*$*$?’s.

  147. Tinto Chiel says:


    “Tinto Chiel
    Do you really think the Johns Hopkins University is at the center of a global conspiracy to exert US foreign influence?”

    What the flying fruitbat has anything of that to do with what I said? Can’t you just engage with me in ordinary words, human to human?

    @Andy Ellis, 8.57: sorry, in all the excitement and all, forgot to reply. Amen to all that. It’s part of the leadership’s “String ’em along/well, we tried our best so keep voting for us on both cards next year strategy.”

    Just stop thinking and everything will be ok, we promise.

  148. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    The Rev. would soon sort me out if he had a problem with my practice. Talking of which, fancy supporting your opinion with some evidence in future? Otherwise, it’s just unsubstantiated opinion. 😉

  149. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    I’m simply trying to provide you with a rational opinion, informed through critical realism and the philosophy of science and shit. Crack on though, believe whatever bollocks suits your outlook.

  150. North chiel says:

    “ Breeks says at 0620 pm … “ Scotland voted NO in 2014 and that democratic result is every bit as sovereign as a Yes victory would have been . Sovereignty is not the decision that is made , it is having the power to make the decision “.
    Couldn’t agree more with you Breeks . It is particularly galling when Bojo on his “ flying visit” spouts the usual “ generation rhetoric “ synonymous with the Unionists . Fine , I agree the NO Result should last for a generation and perhaps Bojo and the Britnat cohorts could define how long that that generation in years or even decades Should have lasted if they so wish . ??Because , a CENTRAL PLANK of the NO MANDTE for the 2014 referendum was that a NO vote would ensure that voters remained in the EU . In fact the main thrust of the NO campaign was that a YES vote would mean that Scotland would be out of the EU and have to “ apply” to rejoin. Consequently , the vast majority of the 200,000 EU residents and very probably a significant number of native Scots voters cast their vote to remain in the EU Via a NO vote . Now that Sovereign Vote by the people of Scotland to remain in both the EU and UK should have also been respected “ for a generation “ . However, just 2 years later that sovereign decision by the people of Scotland was breached despite a overwhelming Sovereign remain vote by the People of Scotland in 2016 . I would argue that our sovereign wish to remain in the EU & UK should have been for a generation . That generation lasted exactly until 31-1-20 and consequently a new referendum is required due to the sovereign wishes of the people of Scotland to remain in both the EU and UK being breached on that date . Thus the “ generation” has ended and been defined by that date.
    This clear breach of the sovereign wishes of the people of Scotland to REMAIN in the EU must be challenged by our SNP leadership . A last and FINAL request for a section 30 “ agreement “ must be made preferably before the year end . If it is again refused then our Holyrood government must advise Westminster that the Holyrood election will be fought on a single issue only by all Independence parties . If necessary our FM must be prepared to resign her government and bring forward the Holyrood election With this constitutional stand off. The people must have a 2nd constitutional vote having been denied EU citizenship by apparently a sovereign English vote to leave . This cannot stand , if the people of Scotland are sovereign.

  151. Andy Ellis says:


    Like I said, he’s a tolerant man. He can do what he wants with his site. We’re entitled to make our views known about your “contributions” too I guess, and whether it’s the right place or they’re useful, diverting or just stuff virtually nobody engages with and scrolls past.

    It’s obviously too much to expect you to have the self awareness to tone it down or actually come up with something original, or even….here’s a thought…express it in your own words, precis it and engage in actual discussion rather than cough up the fruits of your google searches as pearls of wisdom.

  152. Tinto Chiel says:

    “I’m simply trying to provide you with a rational opinion, informed through critical realism and the philosophy of science and shit. Crack on though, believe whatever bollocks suits your outlook.”

    @CBB: you obviously didn’t read what I said. I don’t necessarily believe it, Poindexter, I put it here as a sceptic regarding the narrative we’re being fed at the moment but, in your own words, “Crack on though, believe whatever bollocks suits your outlook.”

    We’ve met and chatted, so I know you are capable of engaging in spontaneous, witty conversation, and I’m puzzled why you can’t just do the same on here.

    Laters, haters!

  153. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    Are you trained to advocate for Natural Law justice, universal human rights, or public health, through science and law? I am, and I’m attempting to share some insight into how to use this perspective to defend Scotland’s constitutional identity. Not through telling folk what the state of the world is, but by pointing them to reliable knowledge that can help them see the world differently. This is what applied critical realism and communication theory looks like. Now either help or stay out of my way please.

  154. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    Do you seriously think you are helping by posting stuff you’ve clearly not examined in any depth? And do you seriously think I’m a hater?

  155. dakk says:

    See Cam’s taking on all comers again.

    Gaun yersel Cammy.

    You’re the tower of London ravens to Wings over scotland.

  156. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gosh. 🙂

  157. jfngw says:

    Something for Joe and the union of anti-maskers.

  158. Tinto Chiel says:

    @CBB: “Do you seriously think you are helping by posting stuff you’ve clearly not examined in any depth?” Once again, oh, the irony.

    “And do you seriously think I’m a hater?” No, I don’t, it’s a teenage mode of speech quite inappropriate for an old dude like me, that’s the point. Have a delayed laugh on me.

    Or not, as the case may be.

  159. dakk says:

    Gosh 🙂

    Don’t mention it Cam.
    They won’t dare argue back now.

  160. Kenny says:

    To be honest, I did not know about Baxter and independence.

    I have always found Baxter’s soup to be the very WORST and I think the “watered down” comment is VERY fair.

    The best soup of all — and it is really magic — is sold in Lidl. I have not bought it for a long time (since winter), but I am pretty sure it is a Scottish firm. It sticks to your ribs and gives you heartburn! It is sold in plastic containers. I always go for cock-a-leekie, but I believe there are other sorts. I go specially to Lidl for the soup and nothing much else.

    Next best is, in my mind, Heinz cream of chicken soup.

    Really, Baxter’s is quite dreadful.

  161. North chiel says:

    The arrogance of these English Tories on their day trips to “ North Britain” is really something to behold . Stephen Barclay , comes to Edinburgh advising us that the Westminster treasury is going to “ grant” the devolved administration an additional 1.9 billion sterling . ( disputed by Kate Forbes who says £800 million only) . This is “ borrowed money “ from the UK treasury funded on the backs of Scottish taxpayers and this arrogant b has the absolute bare faced cheek to come to Edinburgh and “ grant” our devolved government money borrowed on the back of Scottish taxes flowing into the London treasury on a daily basis . This is Scottish taxpayers money and who knows really what the real figures are including Scottish oil revenues and taxes, Scottish corporation tax , Scottish income tax , Scottish excise duties , Scottish VAT revenues etc etc . No doubt that the “ creative accountants” within the treasury will be saddling our devolved government with interest on this debt to further “ distort” the Gers figures . Where is the English “ Barnett formula “ and the “ English devolved administration “ ?
    At least Kate Forbes showed some backbone , grit and determination last night in a tv interview on STV where she stated categorically that in order for the Scottish economy to be “ kick started” she required further borrowing powers for the Scottish government NOW , IMMEDIATELY and not in the future . I was impressed with her thrust and forthrightness . She says NOW and she means NOW .
    No doubt the scheming Tories realise that if they deny these powers she will have to decide on tax rises and/or Public expenditure cuts ( in the run up to the Holyrood election ) .
    Is it not utterly sickening that our Finance Minister is unable to borrow long term for capital or revenue expenditure against Scottish assets and revenues without “ permission “ from the London treasury. The Scottish government should quantify exactly how much Scottish tax revenue in total flows to the London treasury and demand that the Scottish government should be able to borrow against a HALF of all Scottish tax revenue for devolved purposes . Why should the “ supposed “ UK treasury be able to borrow money against Scottish ( and RUK) tax revenue for both RESERVED and DEVOLVED ministerial powers and then have the BRASS NECK to have the English Tory Chief Secretary come to Edinburgh to “ GRANT “ our government OUR OWN MONEY .
    Perhaps MS Forbes is going to “ SHOW THE WAY “ as far as finally at last an individual in our Holyrood government willing to CONFRONT those ignorant arrogant Tory blowhards , chancers and incompetents . Not before time . Great to see Kate Forbes taking a lead on this ! Let’s have some more of this in tv interviews . GRIT , DETERMINATION & BACKBONE . Thank you Kate Forbes.

  162. Beaker says:

    @jfngw says:
    25 July, 2020 at 10:53 pm
    “Something for Joe and the union of anti-maskers.”

    My mum used to have curtains the same pattern as those shirts.

    Hope Joe didn’t watch STV tonight. Apparently “You Only Live Twice” was on. 007 wears a face mask. So if he can bloody do it…

  163. Gary45% says:

    Baxters, Haven’t given them a bean since 2014, along with many others who tried to sway the vote.

  164. Andrew Moray says:

    Andy Ellis says….’The Spanish government for example can insist until it is blue in the face that the Catalan’s are not “allowed” to exercise their right of self-determination because the Spanish constitution forbids it, but that position has no basis in international law.’

    Bollocks !…The Spanish Constitution 0f 1978 states the ‘indivisibility of the Spanish State. Unfortunately for Catalonia.. a big problem for Self Determination in resolving Sovereignty.

    I support the Catalans, but they were stitched up then..and we can be stitched up as well, when the Brit State brings forward its new UK Constitutional legislation.

    Because the SNP are congenitally unable to understand that assertion of our Sovereignty both de jure and de facto internationally right now.. and no later…then we are and will continue to be boxed into Section 30/bullsit Refs/Hollywood/ blah blah blah prevarication until we are sealed up in a constitutional cul de sac of AS and NS ‘s making, which will ratify our colonial status once and for all.

  165. iain mhor says:

    Dan 6:57pm

    Bosch VE for the win! To be fair to the Td5 engine it will run kerosene (paraffin) and is a decent lump. But everything around it was a POS.
    Maybe a Mazda SLT 3.5 into a P38 would be the tool. Meh, KISS.

    On a related/relevant note. A good few years ago, had Scandinavians looking to invest/expand the only anaerobic digester plant hereabouts (waste conversion to biogas, fertilizer etc) and setup bio operations as well.
    Thought Scotland and its renewables outlook, would be ripe to replicate their model here – ran headlong into UK legislation and taxation and went home.

    Though to be fair, Scotland has been trying to increase digester plants, if not reclaimed biofuel plants since then. As ever, much hindered because of – well you guessed.

    The Scandi local authorities run waste oil collections to a locally run bio-plant; local authority vehicles run on the resultant biofuel & the glycerol by-products go to feed waste digester plants (producing biogas to run ooerations) suoply agri-feed, pharma and cosmetics etc. all for a nominal profit . Rinse and repeat – a no-brainer to them…here, not so much *sigh

    Even today, its a major headache to just give away my glycerol by-product; far less have at least my cost of transport covered by the very few anearobic digester plants near me. Despite the fact they really want it. Of course, even if I was able to get a piddly few quid for it, HMRC would have their hands in my wallet before I got home.

    It’s not daylight robbery though, oh no no. I can distribute my by-product (even sell) as long as I pay for my various annual certifications to various quangos, which costs more than I could charge for it.
    To make enough by-product (via economy of scale) to cover costs and stick a few quid on my hip for my bother; I’d be producing biofuel in excess of my annual allowance and be required to pay 50p in the litre and up, on a sliding scale of production…

    The incentive – lets kill it – muahahahaha.

    This link might interest the renewables fans in here and maybe make some think twice before hurling abuse at me and my “old polluting, rust bucket, gas guzzling 4×4 – ya bassa!”

  166. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    Sorry for getting all bossy but both wings of politics have been deliberately undermining public confidence in science, over the last few decades. This undermines democracy and harms our capacity for civic solidarity in the face of covid-19. That Swiss site was cherry picking science to build the case that the public health threat we face is a hoax. So it’s coherent with a right-wing and populist agenda, which is exactly what is aiming to enslave Scotland.

  167. schrodingers cat says:

    miss tunnocks tea cakes but havent touched them since 2014. i dont promote the boycott certain brands which support the union.

    however, i do support companies that support indy

    cairn o mohr wines do a delivery service, dial a smile

    gie them a follow on twitter @cairnomohrwines


  168. Papko says:

    @Tinto ” This is Scottish taxpayers money and who knows really what the real figures are including Scottish oil revenues and taxes, Scottish corporation tax , Scottish income tax , Scottish excise duties , Scottish VAT revenues etc etc”

    Exactly; and all the Scottish exports that go through English ports.
    Not forgetting the duty charged on Whisky, Scotland sees nothing of that.

  169. Papko says:


    “however, i do support companies that support indy”

    Same here; Local Marks & Spencer came out for Indy, what a surge in living costs that was, must have tripled the price of a weeks shop.
    Had to be done though, even though wife had to get a second job to pay for it.

    Supporting Scottish independence is not just about a shuffle round Aldi.

  170. Walter Jones says:

    I have boycotted that other Unionist institution, the SNP.

    Barrhead Travel, The SNP and all other Unionist trash.

  171. Tinto Chiel says:

    @CBB: “That Swiss site was cherry picking science to build the case that the public health threat we face is a hoax.”

    In your opinion, and I very much doubt you’ve given the data there any serious consideration, while you feel free to flash your monographs at us at a moment’s notice.

    “Public confidence in science”? Science is not a monolith, it depends which scientists you choose to believe.

    Since neither of us has the specialised knowledge to venture a defintive opinion, we’ll have to agree to differ, I’m afraid.

    @Papko: not my quotation, me old haricot.

  172. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    Sorry bud but you don’t appear to be following my argument, and appear determined to claim I have no specialist insight. I was trained specifically in the critical analysis and evaluation of scientific reports. Did you not notice me posting stuff on the sociology of knowledge production and epistemology a while back? Obviously not.

    I’m not being critical of the science the site is linking to, which is evolving and prone to revision. I’m critical of the site’s approach to the pandemic, which is most certainly not a hoax.

  173. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB –

    This is the site TC referred to earlier –

    Could you please indicate any relevant passage which gives you the confidence to dismiss the site in its entirety?

    Or perhaps you have special insight as to some political agenda being pursued?

    If so, please share it.

    Otherwise, readers may form the impression that you are deliberately distracting attention from a worthwhile source.

    And they would then be entitled to ask why you are doing so.

  174. schrodingers cat says:

    giving up tunnocks tea cakes was a sair fecht tho

  175. Tinto Chiel says:

    @CBB: we’re going around in circles here. You don’t actually have an argument, you just refuse to open your mind to a differing interpretation and I can’t keep on repeating points which you don’t really address in an open and genuine fashion.

  176. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Their claim that the Center for Health Security at Johns Hopkins University is at the center of a global conspiracy to exert US foreign influence. Can you identify those behind the site, their scientific background, or their politics?

  177. Effijy says:

    Can I say this yet again!

    Although some politicians gave their personal opinion that
    A referendum may be a once in a generation opportunity
    They never said that the Sovereign People of Scotland
    Would lose the right to vote again when major circumstances are changed.

    This once in a generation nonsense was never put forward as a Bill or generated
    Into our constitution. It’s a throw away comment created in hope of driving people
    Out to vote for control of their own future.

    Let’s look at what all the Unionist parties and politicians spouted in their Purda breaking Vow.
    Every single element of the Vow was broken and started the day after the vote.

    So if an SNP official says anything it must become legislation forever,
    If a Unionist politician promises anything, then how stupid are you to have believed them.

    Incidentally, within Stormont’s parliament and Westminster a particular piece of legislation lasts
    For a generation which numerically 7 years.

    OK 2014 means Indy Ref 2 happens ion 2021 as a result of major changes in losing EU citizenship.

    No more to be said!

  178. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    No bud, you are denying me the benefit of a CRITICAL training in science and stuff. That’s a bit insulting.

  179. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB –

    Where is that stated, specifically?

    I am politely asking you for a direct quote.

  180. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Sorry Ian, my eyes are tired but I’m not prone to lying. Care to answer my polite questions?

  181. Joe says:

    CameronB Brodie says:
    25 July, 2020 at 10:13 pm
    Andy Ellis
    The Rev. would soon sort me out if he had a problem with my practice. Talking of which, fancy supporting your opinion with some evidence in future? Otherwise, it’s just unsubstantiated opinion. ?

    Dear WOS,

    I generally ignore Cameron B Brodie and keep my posts to other people or just to the readership in general. However about half the time I say anything Cameron repeatedly calls me racist, bigot, liar and makes other attacks on my character. Which I would suggest are worse than mere throw-away swear words.

    On a recent thread he repeatedly did this, even though my conversation was not with him.

    My question is – are there rules? Or not?

    Im happy with their being none. But that means I get to say what I want – however offensive someone (everyone) might find it.


  182. Effijy says:

    Another company I would never touch after their anti independence stance
    Is Standard Life.
    My employer opened a pension with them that I’m now free to redirect to another plan.

    It’s a done deal that they are about to lose my money.

    How about the boss at Asda who said Scotland’s food costs would escalate
    If we voted Yes and left the EU.

    Hello, we are being forced out of the EU, where are your warnings?

  183. Papko says:

    @Tinto (this time I am sure)
    ” we’re going around in circles here. You don’t actually have an argument, you just refuse to open your mind to a differing interpretation and I can’t keep on repeating points which you don’t really address in an open and genuine fashion”

    That should be at the top and bottom of every thread. Was just today talking to an old friend with mental health issues, and he is “right” about everything it seems, apart from getting a job and paying his way.

    So many of his arguments remind me of the posters on here, I wonder if he does post here, or if a good many on here are the long-term bad -attitude types, who can walk their dog 10 times a day but working as a postman is too much and don’t mention the benefit cuts.

  184. Joe says:

    @Stuart Mackay @ 1:10pm

    Are you calling me an opinionated arsehole!?

    Well, you are right.

    No, in all seriousness I appreciate the advice. I’ll also take a look at that link.

    As for the advice –

    Firstly I really only say what I think isnt being said enough and which appears obvious to me. That’s why I don’t say much negative about Westminster hypocrisy etc.

    Further im not too interested in keeping some sort of ‘message’ that people can digest. If they like an idea or a thought and dislike another then that’s fine by me. I prefer ideas to stand on their own regardless of the person who has them.

    Im really only active because of a few select issues. If this was ‘normal’ times I wouldn’t be posting anything at all. Cheers

  185. Papko says:


    I do condemn any abuse (it so reminds me of Scotland’s Greatest Historian Robert Pfeffers, who played the curmudgeon in “Braveheart”).
    Though I do like CBB, and always get on well with him, I even read some of the links.
    Though they are only just another opinion at the end of the day, and what passes for a PhD thesis now, would of been an O-level 40 years ago.

  186. CameronB Brodie says:

    I been trained to fight right-wing populism Joe, mind and remember that.

    Full text.

    Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 2017
    Not All Skepticism Is Equal: Exploring the Ideological Antecedents of Science Acceptance and Rejection

    Many topics that scientists investigate speak to people’s ideological worldviews. We report three studies – including an analysis of large-scale survey data – in which we systematically investigate the ideological antecedents of general faith in science and willingness to support science, as well as of science skepticism of climate change, vaccination, and genetic modification (GM).

    The main predictors are religiosity and political orientation, morality, and science understanding. Overall, science understanding is associated with vaccine and GM food acceptance, but not climate change acceptance. Importantly, different ideological predictors are related to the acceptance of different scientific findings.

    Political conservatism best predicts climate change skepticism. Religiosity, alongside moral purity concerns, best predicts vaccination skepticism. GM food skepticism is not fueled by religious or political ideology. Finally, religious conservatives consistently display a low faith in science and an unwillingness to support science. Thus, science acceptance and rejection have different ideological roots, depending on the topic of investigation.

    science, religion, conservatism, morality, science skepticism, anti-science

  187. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB (12.32) –

    You already know that there is only *one* reference to ‘The Center for Health Security’ in that document, and there is only *one* reference to ‘John Hopkins University’.

    By astonishing coincidence, both references crop up in the same sentence:

    ‘The so-called Center for Health Security at Johns Hopkins University, which is at the heart of the Covid19 pandemic management and which has contributed greatly to the global escalation through its misleading charts, is also very closely linked to the US security apparatus and has been involved in some of its earlier simulations and operations.’

    You’ve read the document, haven’t you? So you’ll know that the original text contains a hyperlink covering the words ‘very closely linked to the US security apparatus’.

    As you already know – because you are scientific and scrupulous kinda guy – that hyperlink brings you here:

    So, Cam, can you please provide a quote or other evidence from that link to support your complete dismissal of the site – it must be in that link, somewhere.

    Elsewise, where is it?

  188. mike cassidy says:

    From that SPR link

    The so-called Center for Health Security at Johns Hopkins University, which is at the heart of the Covid19 pandemic management and which has contributed greatly to the global escalation through its misleading charts, is also very closely linked to the US security apparatus and has been involved in some of its earlier simulations and operations.

    Call me cynical

    Swiss Policy Research completely lacks transparency as there is not a single name affiliated with the website. For example, an editor is not named and articles do not name an author. Further, they do not list a geographic location and the domain is registered privately. Finally, ownership is not disclosed.

  189. CameronB Brodie says:

    an Brotherhood
    Yes, that’s was the passage that triggered alarm bells for me, as well as the overall tone and construction of the page. That’s just not how science is handled.

    We are in the middle of a global pandemic, so would you care to answer my questions about who you apparently want us to trust? Can you identify them and vouch for their impartiality and probity?

  190. jfngw says:

    If I thought that just not buying Tunnocks products was a guarantee of independence then it would be a done deal, I feel it is going to be more a bit complex than that though.

    If you don’t buy from unionist suppliers and Tory donors then you’re going to have a pretty restricted diet. And where do you draw the line, the retailer, the wholesaler, the ingredient manufacturer. It’s fucking pointless, it will further independence about as much as me trying to stick my head up my own arse.

  191. CameronB Brodie says:


  192. Breeks says:

    Andy Ellis says:
    25 July, 2020 at 7:57 pm

    Our popular sovereignty means diddly squat if we have no majority….

    That’s where I fundamentally disagree with you.

    I believe the very reverse is true. It’s an electoral majority which means nothing without a legal constitution underpinning it. Of the two, Constitutional Sovereignty is the more important, because that’s the umbrella of protection which your electoral mandate requires, so when the result of the vote is established, it cannot be overruled.

    What good is your democracy if it can be arbitrarily overruled? It is a worthless opinion poll. That’s what the SNP is just finding out, and it was criminally negligent for them to capitulate on the issue of Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation in the name of democracy. It was naive and stupid, and it has now created dangerous precedents which we will now have to overturn to reaffirm the popular sovereignty of the people. What international government is going to recognise the sovereignty of the Scottish people when the bumbling arseholes in our own “Scottish” government don’t recognise it? It drives me insane.

    You look at countries around the world which aren’t democracies. They are still recognised as sovereign entities, and their electoral system, or lack of it, is simply regarded as an internal domestic matter which other nations cannot lawfully interfere with. That is why the EU could not openly interfere with Spain and Catalonia, it was legally and constitutionally, categorised as an internal domestic issue for Spain.

    When a nation recognised another nation, it is their legal status being recognised, NOT their democratic credentials.

    Democracy is NOT the holy grail for Independence people think it is. That is a myth. Whether Scotland voted YES or NO in 2014 made no difference to the constitutional sovereignty of the Scottish people. The mandate delivered was sovereign whatever the result happened to be.

  193. Confused says:

    given the state of the commenting of late – obsessives, gatekeepers and activists, angry blimps, the unwitted – here is an example of how to do it; its about rory scothornes crap article in bella; see how this guy destroys him, its full of zingers and really -hurtful- things to say to a wannabe serious writer …

  194. Joe says:

    @Mike Cassidy

    Interesting. That media bias fact check puts the BBC and SKY news as very reliable.

    It claims Sky News is about as unbiased as you get.

  195. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @mike cassidy –

    As TC said earlier, we’re going round in circles…here’s a take on your archived source:

    ‘The Columbia Journalism Review describes Media Bias/Fact Check as an amateur attempt at categorizing media bias and Van Zandt as an “armchair media analyst.”[3] The Poynter Institute notes, “Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific.”[5] Alexandra Kitty, in a 2018 book on journalism, described MBFC as an apparent “amateur/civic outfit” and wrote that its founder’s only qualification was a degree in communications.[4]

    The site has been used by researchers at the University of Michigan to create a tool called the “Iffy Quotient”, which draws data from Media Bias/Fact Check and NewsWhip to track the prevalence of “fake news” and questionable sources on social media.[6][7] The site was also used by a research group at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in initial training of an AI to fact check and detect the bias on a website.[8][9]’

    In any case, CamB still hasn’t responded, so let’s wait to hear his take on it all.


  196. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ouch. I’ve linked folk to a fair bit of Benedict Anderson or Ernest Gellner, a while back. In fact, I think it was Anderson who first described contemporary British nationalism as expansionist English nationalism. 😉

  197. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    All I can go by is my training and instincts. Do you have any experience in identifying ideological bias in scientific reporting? Can you identify those behind the site, and what there politics might be? Do you know anything about supporting public health?

    Science audiences, misinformation, and fake news

  198. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB –

    I’m away to get some decent sleep.

    I suggest, respectfully, that you do likewise.

  199. schrodingers cat says:

    jfngw says:
    If I thought that just not buying Tunnocks products was a guarantee of independence then it would be a done deal,

    it cant hurt tho?

  200. Beaker says:

    @jfngw says:
    26 July, 2020 at 1:06 am
    “If you don’t buy from unionist suppliers and Tory donors then you’re going to have a pretty restricted diet. And where do you draw the line, the retailer, the wholesaler, the ingredient manufacturer. It’s fucking pointless, it will further independence about as much as me trying to stick my head up my own arse.”

    Glad someone else has some common sense.

    In case some people here still aren’t aware, Twitter is monitored by the media 24 hours a day. They are looking for stories. How will things look if pro-independence activists are openly calling for a boycott of Scottish companies? The SNP will never condone such an action. How can they?

    FFS think for once.

  201. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    I don’t know what you think you’ve proven Ian, as that Swiss site lacks transparency. You have no corroboration of any of the claims made, and you don’t really know how the site was used by the uni researchers. Anyway, night, night.

    Full text.

    Annals of the International Communication Association
    Volume 43, 2019 – Issue 2
    Fake news as a two-dimensional phenomenon: a framework and research agenda

  202. K1 says:

    I’m reading through some of the paper’s highlighted in the Swiss link above.

    Just a small observation, and I don’t know until I read every single paper/source cited obviously, whether this is something to consider with various site’s who aggregate COVID related papers et al.

    But for the purposes of an example of ‘alert reading’, just reading through several so far, some of these original citations are dated from March\April\May\June etc and as it happens I had found another aggregating COVID site last night, which is dated and updated with new or relevant information that in some and perhaps many instances doesn’t just update but corrects and therefore alters the previous citations or at least lends some nuance or more understanding on what any given March\April\May\June paper or source originally published.

    On the above Swiss link, I found this:

    17. ‘The effectiveness of face masks in healthy and asymptomatic individuals remains questionable. Experts warn that such masks may interfere with normal breathing and may become “germ carriers”. Leading doctors called them a “media hype” and “ridiculous”.‘

    ‘remains questionable’ is a green/blue link on the the site, once you click on it, this article from cidrap comes up from the 1st April 2020:

    All good, sound citation in support of the argument ‘against’ face masks.

    The aggregate site that I found with a quick search last evening was this:

    This site as I mentioned above is dated and updated regularly from what I’ve gleaned so far. When I was reading various cites and sources on that site, I found this, within a long list of links highlighted throughout the page under the 23rd July published links, this article was in the list headed:

    ‘Selected News and commentary’

    Within that list I clicked on the highlighted link:

    COMMENTARY: My views on cloth face coverings for the public for preventing COVID-19 – CIDRAP

    Which opened this, published on the 22nd July 2020:

    Same author same site, but changed perspective from April to July.

    I think we have to consider that we are all a bit at cross purposes with all of this virus stuff, but we can are least all agree that ah should get another alert reader badge for noticing ‘dates’. 🙂

  203. CameronB Brodie says:

    Definitely an alert reader, and thanks for supporting my suggestion that the science is evolving and prone to update.

  204. K1 says:

    Oh…ah don’t know, we”be been actively telling them to get tae fuck for years…don’t really think there’s anything knew about how many of us feel about those bastards:

    ‘As such we’ve reluctantly concluded that the time has come for advocates of Scottish independence to withdraw their funding from an organisation which has over that time, and especially in the last month or so, simply abandoned any pretence of fairness and actively sought to influence the referendum in one direction.‘

    And still yes is ahead.

  205. K1 says:


  206. Effijy says:

    Bojo does it again.

    His latest F*** up, which he is turning into an art form,
    Expects Brits holidaying in Spain, after being permission. To do so,
    are now to be expected to self isolate for 14 days on their return.

    I believe a full 6 hours notice was given, which won’t apply to those out
    For their last night holiday celebrations.
    They will find out at the airport this morning and not be too pleased.

    So how has team Cummings come up with this new idiocy, it seems the latest
    Spanish Covid spike seen 900 new cases across the entire mainland.
    The poor souls lost another handful of citizens to the virus.

    How does this compare with Bojoland, well England had 750 new cases but more
    Covid Deaths than Spain.

    So with fewer deaths in Spain I’d say they are doing better than Bojo but he in his own
    Mind seems to interpreter this as England is doing better?

    The Spanish Islands have no new cases but again for no reason he has included them?

    Lastly, I want you to picture thousands of Brits worried about their jobs and ready to return to
    Work at the end of Furlough on 1st August.
    They realise there are likely to be redundancies looming and if they say they can’t return to work,
    Will that put them on the top of the redundancy list?

    These people are not going to isolate, no one is going to check on them and the virus will
    Have another avenue available to perpetuate

    My prediction for England in the first week of August- 1,000 Plus new case per day!

    Unemployment figures to increase by 100’s thousands as employers will have to pay toward furlough while trying to decide if their company is now viable.

    We can jam on the accelerator for job losses, food shortages, and higher rates of tax as Bonkers Brexit Beats the living daylights out of Scotland.

  207. ahundredthidiot says:

    Can you imagine the frustration of those aliens in War of the Worlds travelling all the way here and forgetting their bloody facemasks!!

    I would be like, pure furious man….’you packed them! – naw, you did’

  208. If you were out and about and feeling cold and peckish and there was a British Nationalist stall selling hot pies and hot tea as a fundraser for British Nationalists would you buy a pie and tea,

    or would you think `nah no thanks even though it`s only a couple of quid i`m not going to support the British Nationalist cause in any way`.

  209. ahundredthidiot says:

    Shit – I was just joking a few posts up, but it seems the US government is going to release proof of physical evidence of ‘off-world vehicles not built on this earth'(which translates to yankee bullshit in my book)

    Looks like the wildest of wild conspiracy theorists about this COVID all leading to a phoney alien invasion may actually turn out to be right!!! – hahaha – brilliant, pass the popcorn

    Not that I am a non-believer mind, but my theory would be simple – they would want their stuff back and I’m pretty sure there’s fuck all we could do about it!

    I wonder if this non earth vehicle has a facemask holder……

  210. Dogbiscuit says:

    So many covid cases yet so few deaths .That must be disappointing to those who allowed themselves to be worked into a false state of emergency by the state controlled media.
    The tendency of ‘lockdown’ fans to abuse anyone who has questions to ask about government policy betrays perhaps feelings of foolishness because a Government narrative has been swallowed whole.
    The bare faced dishonesty of governments in London Edinburgh and Cardiff is so obvious I can only assume the ‘lockdown’ fans are shilling for Government.
    No talk of ‘flattening the curve’ these days eh.
    People speak in government buzz words.

  211. Dogbiscuit says:

    Muzzle up and slip into your wetsuit yer da needs a paper they National’ of course a pint of milk and a loaf. Stand in a queue Like a Soviet prick be regimented be contained be hated by mask wearing mugs . Make sure you wear a tartan mask to show how individualistic you are .
    It’s no kind of argument to say we can go out if we want .We go out because government allows us .
    You live your lives by Government fiat and you know it .

  212. Dogbiscuit says:

    ‘Perpetuate’? Get a fucking grip of yourself Effigy.
    What fucking bullshit from the Gove agent.
    Jesus fucking Christ the selfish bastards on here crushing the life out of our children .Damn you lot .You deserve neither safety or liberty.

  213. Dogbiscuit says:

    CBB thinks other people’s academic opinions somehow corroborate his belief system.
    Have you written any paper of your own? That we might read.

  214. Gary45% says:


  215. mike cassidy says:

    Here’s an opinion piece to get your brain cells warmed up on a Sunday morning

    As America tops 4 million COVID cases, the cult of Donald Trump has become a death cult

  216. ahundredthidiot says:

    COVID bedwetters falling hook line and sinker for the move from Deaths to Cases – some of them (still stinking of pee btw) even put the cases out in bold print to emphasis their addiction.

    I have come to the conclusion that they are addicts. Addicted to drama and panic and fear.

    they are to be pitied.

  217. Walter Jones says:

    Tony Blair tells Sky’s Sophie Ridge that Keir Stammer is the man to stop the march to Scottish Independence in it’s tracks.

    Firstly, the Labour Party are not in power at Westminster.

    Secondly, you need to get a Stammer Stooge to lead the Scottish Labour Party.

    Thirdly, you then need to convince the Scottish people that that is the road they wish to go down.

    So Tony, a wee bit of work to do before you convince us that a BritNat right wing Scottish Labour Party is what the Scottish people want.

    Good luck with that Tony Boy.

    Just how out of touch are these english establishment bastards with the true feelings of ordinary Scots?

  218. mike cassidy says:

    It’s clear BoJo still doesn’t ‘get’ Scots (and it’s not the economy, stupid)

  219. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Dogbiscuit appears to having an “episode” 🙂

  220. jfngw says:

    @Scot Finlayson

    Just say you were feeling a bit peckish and a Scottish Nationalist was selling pie & tea, but you knew the ingredients came from British Nationalists. Not only that but he rented his space from a British Nationalist. Why are we even using these spaces, plus all those council areas run by British Nationalists, should we even be walking on the tarmac they have laid.

    There are issues with British Nationalist companies but it’s important ones like threatening their staff with redundancy if they vote for independence.

    If you boycott BritNat companies then you are probably removing the vast majority of employment in Scotland, you can do it but you need to own the consequences. Removing peoples employment is hardly going to swing them over to being independence supporters. The reality may be a bit shit but we have to acknowledge it.

  221. Ottomanboi says:

    You might wish to tear your hair out over aspects of Scotland’s independence struggle but compared to this, the homeland of my ancestors, no need for despair.
    The international community couldn’t give a… much for ‘law’ natural or otherwise.
    As for that Nato ally Turkey….
    Not so bad being Scottish after all but don’t expect the international community to lift a finger.

  222. Ron Maclean says:

    ‘It might still be possible to contain Scottish identity within a new Union of equals, were there politicians capable of articulating a vision as compelling as that of empire, Protestantism or anti-fascism.’
    Iain Macwhirter in The Herald link provided by @mike cassidy at 10:16am

  223. Al-Stuart says:


    What is wrong with you?

    You have lost your humanity in some twisted effort to become a polemicist?

    If you are Scottish and decent, please have some humanity and respect. Several on here, and sadly I am one of them, have lost family AND friends to this Coronavirus.

    For you to dumb it down and ABUSE others as bedwetters makes me wish Stuart Campbell would PLEASE put some form of Twitter/Facebook BLOCK coding onto this website.

    It is entirely possible to scroll by so munch of the repetitive internecine drivel that the usual suspects discharge night and day on Wings Over Scotland in an effort to find the decent, often hidden gems of decent comment where there is a genuine point and interesting post of quality and substance.

    Sadly my Sunday has been ruined by an idiot who I would walk a hundred miles away from and never wish to see hide nor hair of ever again.

    Jesus man/woman/it, if you are representative of the New Independent Scotland, I would rather vote for the London Party I loathe and despise than have you anywhere near the levers of control.

    To others reading this, I apologise for the intemperate words. The latest funeral was another one of those virtual things where several of us were not allowed to attend, nor pay our respects because of shielding and other Covid19 restrictions rightly invoked by the funeral directors.

  224. jfngw says:


    You are wasting your breath replying to them, they have an idiotic dogma and post the same thing repetitively. Best just to scroll by, no matter how annoying you find them.

  225. Andy Ellis says:

    @Ron Maclean

    I’ve thought for a while that if Scots unionists had any sense (OK, I know it’s a stretch, but bear with me……) the way to recover their position in Scotland would be to push for “real” Home Rule. Of course Scots Tories, Labour and LD’s still hate each other but not nearly as much as they hate separatists.

    You have to wonder what they might actually have achieved if they had not only promised but delivered on the kind of devo-max set out in 2014’s Vow? Imagine the influence a block of dozens of pro devo-max MPs could have exerted in Westminster at the time May was kow-towing to the flat earthers in the DUP!

    Of course, it’s a fiction. Scottish unionism is intellectually moribund. It has no purpose, no charismatic leaders, no activist base and ever diminishing levels of popular support.

    Instead, we’re left with a putatively pro-independence party that’s too politically timid to actually pull the trigger on a campaign, and has tacitly accepted that we need London’s permission to exercise our self determination. It’s the worst of both worlds: no realistic prospect of full-fat devolution à la Faroe Islands, with control over everything but defence and foreign affairs, but no realistic chance of independence this decade.

    Scotland deserves better than this surely? 🙁

  226. ahundredthidiot says:

    Al-Stuart wants me banned, calls me ‘it’ and finished trying to appear as the good guy.

    enjoy your day AL

  227. Dogbiscuit says:

    Covid ‘cases ‘ ? How many deaths?

  228. Gary45% says:

    Sorry for your loss.
    Worst thing was stopping the Thursday night recognition of the front line staff. They are still there and some are still dying.
    Stopping the Thursday clapping simply made the gullible population take their eye of the pandemic.( a simple,look squirrel, move on, next agenda)
    “Yer man/persons ” are not a rep for a new Indy Scotland, they,it, whatever? are a million miles from the Scotland I am many others strive for.
    Allow them to continue to howl at the moon,ignore them.

  229. Clapper57 says:

    @ Walter Jones @ 10.15am

    “Tony Blair tells Sky’s Sophie Ridge that Keir Stammer is the man to stop the march to Scottish Independence in it’s tracks”.

    Hi Walter…did he say that Keir is going to do it by starting an ‘illegal war’ with Scotland….with General Lisa Nandy controlling the troops Spanish style……

    Tony Blair always the ‘GO TO’ man for MSM……on the proviso that they ‘Don’t mention THE war’…….welcome to UknotOK ….where a former PM who lied to parliament and the people and then when , via an inquiry, he is found out…. he is NOT punished but instead given a constant platform by the media like some kind of f**king oracle……”What do you think Mr Blair”…”What would you do Mr Blair” ……

    Blair can GTF……as can any media that seeks his opinion….since when was it OK to present a war criminal as respectable and allow HIS tainted opinion to be given a public platform …well obvs within the UKnotOK…surprised? ….No…….par for the course obvs.

  230. Bob Mack says:

    @Al Stuart,but

    Yes it’s tough Al. The sad thing is that there are those on here who would disparage the loss of a human life to show how little it means to them.

    There is an old saying that the only thing worth more to a man than his country or his life is his own stuborn opinion..

    I think that is proven by some posters here today.

  231. ahundredthidiot says:


    don’t you have a marxist protest to be at?

    or what about my loss?? – 83 year old man refused to go to hospital and died at home. 75 year old went to hospital, refused an exploratory procedure, sent to a care home with restricted access to his wife only and not his kids – only to die a few weeks later. 46 year old relative who killed himself and a 73 year old man who was rushed to hospital with a brain haemorrhage to die two days later – although not before being tested for COVID, proving positive and going down as a fucking COVID DEATH!

    And I’ve said my piece on here about the inhumanity of funerals and how we are treating our dead – I BLAME the COVID NAZIS.

    People die – so fucking grow up – right now though, everyone is being fucking SCAMMED into a pandemic for a virus with the same kill rate as FLU. Dont believe me? – go ask a fucking grave digger. seasonal flu in 2015 was WORSE!

    The only thing that’s contagious and deadly is this fucking madness.

  232. Clapper57 says:

    @ Al-Stuart @ 10.41am

    Hi Al, no need to apologise….so sorry that you lost someone and that you could not, because of this virus, attend in person.

    I think we all need to remember that politics should always be secondary…..and humanity first.

    Take care Al…..

  233. Dogbiscuit says:

    The emotional blackmail from Al-Stuart is not an argument for locking a people up and removing civic rights and freedoms .Theres a UNESCO charter that supposedly guarantees the rights of the individual against unwarranted state mandated medical procedures.
    Some body else can google it I can’t be bothered.
    Als experience does not justify the destruction of the economy. I might add that Al-Stuart and his loved ones have been treated outrageously by our rotten system of government as all victims have been treated lately.
    People we need to wise up and stand up to this Government or we will never be free again. There are are far too many inconsistencies and contradictions in government policies since the start of the ‘crisis’ If there was a time for face masks it was at the beginning of this business not at the end as the virus appears to be running its course while infection with a drop in morbidity points increasingly toward herd immunity. If herd immunity is reached before a vaccine can be cobbled together then who profits? The Governments are trying to prolong a sense of desperate emergency in order to justify vaccinating their human herd.Theres profit to be made from farming humans.
    jfngw won’t be so smug when the penny finally falls him .
    Bungly Peony Yo yo . My ‘episode’ sheds more light on our situation than your dark SNP shilling.
    There is no way I could vote for any of the politicians in this country not after the ease with which they voted the public into servitude.
    Our rights have been converted into removable privileges.
    Our children are crushed by this insane ‘lockdown’ .

  234. Walter Jones says:

    Clapper57 11.13am

    I remember waiting on the Chilcot inquiry and what was going to happen to Tony Blair.

    He was going to go to Jail.

    He was going to get hung drawn and quartered.

    Infact I think Alex Salmond was the one who was pushing for the most severe punishments.

    But in the end, nothing happened.

    A huge damp squib.

    So to this day I will never take any interest in any english establishment public inquiry.

    Whitewash doesn’t even come close to describing what happened.

    And probably why the english establishment still hound Salmond to this day.

    As is unfolding before our eyes to Alex Salmond.

    They know they can’t accidentally kill Alex Salmond, so they just try to frame him instead.

  235. ahundredthidiot says:


    Before you offer me your sympathy – let me cut you off at the pass – shove it up your arse.

    As I am pretty sure you weren’t just virtue signalling – you know, all politics aside and all that pish.

  236. Bob Mack says:


    Seriously,Do you have mental health issues?

  237. MaggieC says:

    I see Angus Robertson has launched his campaign to be selected as the candidate for Edinburgh Central for Holyrood , this is from bbc news

    And this from Edinburgh News / Scotsman

    And an interesting tweet from Joanna Cherry

    I wonder if Joanna will decide to stand for another seat or campaign for Edinburgh Central as she has already said she wants to stand in this seat . It will be an interesting campaign but I hope Joanna gets the selection .

  238. mike cassidy says:

    How many frontline staff died in the flu season of 2015?

  239. Gary45% says:

    Bob Mack@11.36
    You’ll never get back the minutes wasted responding/reading.

  240. Andy Ellis says:

    @Maggie C

    Interesting stuff. As an Edinburgh Central voter and former SNP Central member, I hope Joanna does get the nomination. she’d certainly get my vote. If Robertson wins, I don’t know: it will depend on what he says particularly WRT GRA, self-ID and the prospective new Hate Crime law.

    I’m quite prepared to just spoil my vote for the constituency and vote for someone else on the list.

  241. @jfngw,

    so are you are saying you would buy the hot pie and hot tea from the British Nationalist stall that helped fund British Nationalism in Scotland,

    simple yes or no will do.

  242. Bob Mack says:


    The person shows every indication of anti social personality disorder. As such this site is manna from heaven. It is a venue where they can be disagreeable with everybody and anybody, which suits their needs.

    I might e mail the Rev.

    Ps I am qualified to make that judgement.

  243. Dogbiscuit says:

    The smug assumption of moral superiority exhibited by Bob Mack is also not an argument for the removal of your rights and freedoms.
    Ahundredthidiot demonstrates that everyone has a story to tell .
    I was until covid very much on the left of politics but witnessing the lefts intolerance of an argument has got me thinking. Although we appear subject to a right wing political coup in London the same is happening all over so it is coordinated at a higher level than national governments who must be in someone’s pocket financially as well as idealistically. Sturgeon seems the idealistic type forever requiring a signal boost for her virtue.
    I cannot vote for a party that threatens online political discourse and the Hate Crime Bill will target unwanted politics.
    The appending of ‘hate’ to a criminal offence introduces emotion into a judicial process that is meant to deal with facts and evidence not some fragile snowflakes feelings.

  244. Famous15 says:

    Two things making me think that independence is nearer than I thought:

    1. The frenzy of Unionists to sabotage this site by posting utter nonsense. Flat earthers and medical science deniers out in strength .

    2. The pretence that Scotland is a charity case yet they are desperate to keep us in the Union.

  245. Gary45% says:

    I wouldn’t bother reporting, it gives them yet another sorry excuse for howling.
    Ignore, and they will simply go away.

  246. Bob Mack says:


    It’s good to see you have at least a degree of empathy for someone of similar outlook. Speaks well for you.

  247. robbo says:

    mike cassidy says:
    26 July, 2020 at 11:43 am
    How many frontline staff died in the flu season of 2015?


    “The same as the flu crap” is long gone. Covid is already past any true reported worldwide figures for any year for flu.Flu has a vaccine,only for a year as the so called herd theory only works for a year. We haven’t even entered flu season yet,so this covid, with no vaccine and flu on top we’re in for a hellish time i expect.

    Of course the clowns above think there rufty tufty and can beat anything. A virus is a trillion miles ahead of their pea brains.

  248. Ron Maclean says:

    @Andy Ellis 10:50am

    If there had been a third question on devomax in 2014 which forestalled The Vow I think a majority would probably have voted for it. Knowing what we know about the deceit endemic in Scottish politics it wouldn’t have been delivered. As long as Westminster continues to rule it would be naïve to expect any change now.

    We’re stalled I’m afraid. We need a complete change of leadership in the SNP. Nicola Sturgeon is a dull and dutiful First Minister but she and her team have wasted more than five years paying homage to Westminster and look well set to waste another five if they’re given the chance. I don’t think she’s capable of taking us to independence. She might even fall for the Union of equals myth.

    I’d hoped there would have been a leadership challenge in the SNP by now but it looks like they’ve all been ‘captured’ by the Establishment and the promise of an easy life. The dream looks dead in the SNP.

  249. Bob Mack says:

    @Scot Finlayson,

    If you were hungry and thirsty enough you would buy a pie and a Bovril from Boris Johnson himself

  250. CameronB Brodie says:

    I see the right-wing are attempting to take the site over with their deranged lack of humanity. They already have Westminster destroying Scottish democracy, so what else do these cupid stunts want? Spiritual forgiveness for their fascist ways?

  251. Cuilean says:

    Covid confirmed death totals, on 24th July 2020:

    England 41,144 84.3% of UK population
    Scotland 2,491 8.2% of UK population
    Wales 1,548 4.7% of UK population
    N Ireland 556 2.8% of UK population

    If the three devolved nations’ covid death rate were on par with England:

    Scotland’s 8.2% of 41,144 would be 3,374 deaths, or 883 saved
    Wales’ 4.7% of 41,144 would be 1,934 deaths, or 386 saved
    N Ireland’s 2.8% of 41,144 would be 1,152 deaths, or 596 saved

    Total saved by NOT following the ‘sheer might of the UK’

    1,865 lives potentially saved.

    200 more than died on the Titanic.

    It is now long past time to get off this sinking ship.

  252. CameronB Brodie says:

    Talking of fascism, does anyone know if the Church of Scotland supports Natural Law, or British nationalism, as you can’t do both at the same time?

  253. Dogbiscuit says:

    Given that the virus is so contagious most of the shop assistants must have died off over the past five months ? No?

  254. Andy Ellis says:

    @Ron 11.58

    Preach, brother! I fear you are right. It’s a hard thing to admit, but I fear we might actually be in a better position now to push for “full” indy had we spent the last decade actually achieving “full-federalism”.

    “O tempora, o mores!” as a wise man once said. 🙁

  255. Clapper57 says:

    @ Walter Jones @ 11.29am.

    Well said Walter…

    And remember how many Blairites opposed the Iraq war (Chilcot) Inquiry…Ian Austin for one….now he has been nominated by Boris Johnson for a peerage….

    You could not make it up.

    Have a nice day Walter


  256. robbo says:

    Dogbiscuit says:
    26 July, 2020 at 12:02 pm
    Given that the virus is so contagious most of the shop assistants must have died off over the past five months ? No?


    You’re one thick twat.

  257. Robert graham says:

    Question why are the two idiots still pressing the ‘ it’s stupid to boycott union supporting companies ” button the same mantra was being pushed when the Mobile Add Trucks were starting up , oh you can’t do this , you can’t do that,
    Ok what are you people getting out of this ? , Employee Welfare , protecting Scottish Jobs my arse , its reasons and excuses to do nothing,

    The Rand Corporation for those who who haven’t heard of them they have been advising the United States Government since the 1940 s they conduct and run various scenarios of every known consequence of any government action if it’s done or planned they predict the outcome,

    They investigated how various corporations in America could be hampered by some employees at first communist infiltration was investigated and how it was done the most effective way was employees doing nothing by nothing I mean how they gum up the normal operations of any company, it was found the most effective way was indeed the do nothing can’t be done method , the same people are at work within the SNP and every single pro Independence site it’s not outwardly obvious but very effective, so spare me the protecting jobs and employee pish .

  258. Dogbiscuit says:

    Cameron you’re buying covid propaganda from a right wing English government and you bang on about right wingers taking over the thread .

  259. Dogbiscuit says:

    Robbo try making a political argument .

  260. Dogbiscuit says:

    Why not some condescending sarcasm Robbo?

  261. ahundredthidiot says:

    Bob Mack has used the words T*igs and H*ns in a post talking about people in Scotland.

    I am angry because I should be on a plane.

    Bob Mack is a sectarian bigot – or an ignoramus – or both.

  262. Bob Mack says:


    If sane people were to think like you then they would have. To make some basic assumptions to get to your position.

    Firstly,every doctor and scientist who currently deal with Covid must be in on the plot. They must be saying it (covid) is dangerous just to suit the government . They would therefore all be lying when they talk of the past, current, and future problems they have or will endure through covid.

    Now I am sure there will be some people in medicine who would go along with that, but I am also sure the vast majority of those who practice medicine do so for great reasons.

    So, are all these professionals in on the government plot?

  263. Bob Mack says:


    Ignoramus no. I was bigoted when I was younger, but I grew out of that quite quickly.

    You however are of different cloth. You are the perpetual angry person whose only satisfaction in life is to try and hurt others. That’s how you get your jollies. You only feel good when you can make others as miserable as yourself.

    You don’t need a plane. Your high enough.

  264. CameronB Brodie says:

    That really takes the biscuit. Protecting one’s biological integrity is now being painted as bending to right-wing propaganda. Top quality gas-lighting that. Next we’ll be getting accused of being racist for not supporting English Torydum’s populist conquest of Scotland. So it’s just a pity that right-wing populism supports social inequality and authoritarian racism (see Brexit).

  265. mike cassidy says:

    Sunday morning coming down.

    Peter Green is gone

    Ruth Davidson alive and excreting

    Anybody got access to the full article.

  266. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m pretty sure I already suggested Ruth Davidson was a bit of a thick fascist.

  267. @Bob Mack,

    i said `peckish` not starving to death 🙂

  268. Bob Mack says:

    @Scot Finlayson,


  269. schrodingers cat says:

    dog biscuit and 100thidiot have manage to derail this thread. back to the ins and outs of masks

    id ask stu to block them but they’d probably just come back under different monickers

  270. Me Bungo Pony says:

    “I am angry because I should be on a plane”.

    It all becomes clear. You’re angry because your holibobs have been cancelled. You’ll get over it.

  271. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @schrodingers cat (1:39 pm)
    “dog biscuit and 100thidiot have manage to derail this thread. back to the ins and outs of masks”

    I wouldn’t worry too much. This far into a thread with hundreds of replies we are effectively only talking to each other. Any casual viewers moved on long before reading this far. They can howl all they like but they are unlikely to influence anyone now.

  272. schrodingers cat says:

    joanna Cherry QC @joannaccherry
    The trouble with pitching for @theSNP Holyrood #2021 as the anti #Brexit candidate is that #Brexit has happened. Despite the best efforts of those of us who fought it tooth & nail. The issue now is how we secure #independence & #Scotland’s Future in Europe

    We need a grown up conversation about policy & strategy. We must provide answers to questions about #EU accession, borders, economics & what kind of Scotland we want. A worthy heir to the enlightenment? Or one where debate is not encouraged?

  273. schrodingers cat says:

    sorry breeks, the option of remaining or the eu putting us in a holding pen just evapourated

    we should be approaching norway and other efta countries right now on the basis that when we launch our indy manifesto for holyrood 2021 the efta countries would be will to make a public announcement agreeing to an indy scotland’s immediate membership of efta

  274. Andy Ellis says:

    @SC WRT Joanna Cherry

    I think it’s been pretty evident for a while now that debate in the SNP is only encouraged if it’s the right kind of debate, huh?

    Otherwise as the Convenor of my former branch was moved to declare in his twitter header to ram home the message on GRA, “There is No Debate”.

    If there is a party in Scotland which is a worthy heir to the enlightenment, I’d argue it certainly isn’t the SNP as it currently manifests itself.

    I have a lot of respect for Joanna, and unlike most in the party she walks the walk rather than just talks the talk. Whether those who support her end up being able to turn the party around has to be open to question given recent events.

  275. Dan says:

    @Confused at 1:11 am

    Re. Rory 😉

  276. jfngw says:

    @Scott Finlayson

    ‘simple yes or no will do’

    It must be great being able to see everything in just black and white, it makes complex decision seem simple.

    I was wondering how you know everything you buy is not from a BritNat company, it must take up most of your day just checking every ingredient for its place of origin and political affiliation of the owners.

  277. @jfngw,

    You are maybe to young to remember South African apartheid where the main way to put pressure on the Government of the day was a boycot on South African goods,

    `In response to an appeal by Albert Luthuli, the Boycott Movement was founded in London on 26 June 1959 at a meeting of South African exiles and their supporters.Members included Vella Pillay, Ros Ainslie, Abdul Minty and Nanda Naidoo.Julius Nyerere would summarize its purpose:

    “We are not asking you, the British people, for anything special. We are just asking you to withdraw your support from apartheid by not buying South African goods.”

  278. Polly says:

    Fantastic cartoon as always

  279. gift deed says:

    Gift is a generic term that has all transfers of property inconsiderately . In India, Gift is taken into account like Hiba but technically, Gift contains a much wider scope than Hiba. The word Hiba means the donation of a thing from which donee may get profit. It must be immediate and complete.Since muslim law views the law of Gift as a part of law of contract, there must be an offer , an acceptance , and transfer.

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